-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:935
Sender:"Mathew Levi" <ml@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-01 16:02:42
Subject:The Real Thing: Democracy as a Contact Sport
Message:

The Real Thing: Democracy as a Contact Sport
By Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman

A few weeks ago, we received an invitation to attend an event at the Library
of Congress.

Coca-Cola was about to make an "historic contribution" to the Library of
Congress, and the Library, and Coca-Cola, were inviting reporters to cover
the event. We accepted the invitation.

We learned from the morning papers that the "historic contribution" was a
complete set of 20,000 television commercials pushing Coca-Cola into the
American digestive system.

Remember the one where the kid hands Pittsburgh Steeler Mean Joe Greene his
bottle of Coke, and in return, Mean Joe tosses the kid his football jersey?
Or what about on a hilltop in Italy where the folks start sing "I'd like to
buy the world a Coke and keep it company"?

The event was at the Great Hall of the Thomas Jefferson Building -- named
after the Thomas Jefferson who, in 1816, wrote: "I hope we shall crush in
its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to
challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the
laws our country."

Anyway, we pull up at the appointed hour (7:15 p.m. on November 29, 2000) at
the Thomas Jefferson building, and there's a traffic jam created by stretch
limousines blocking the entrance.

In addition to lowly reporters, the 400 or so guests included ambassadors,
members of Congress, corporate chieftains and other dignitaries. Good thing
we dressed up.

The Main Hall is this absolutely stunning room, with marble staircases. A
string quartet is playing. Waiters are serving Coke in classic bottles. The
food is fabulous -- lamb chops, trout, Peking duck. We rub shoulders with
the Ambassador from Burma.

The "aristocracy of our monied corporations," as Jefferson put it, had taken
over the place, and Coca-Cola wanted to make sure that everybody knew it.

After all, Coke could have just donated the ads to the Library and left it
at that. But this wasn't about Coke's largesse. It was about public
relations -- whether the public would view the company as a racist company
(Coke had just agreed to pay $192.5 million to settle allegations that it
routinely discriminated against black employees in pay, promotions and
performance evaluations) or a junk food pusher (consuming large quantities
of sugared Coca-Cola has led to ours being one of the most overweight
generations in history) -- or instead, a generous contributor to the Library
of Congress.

James Billington, the Librarian of Congress, was called on to deliver good
things to Coke, and he did. He turned over the keys of the Main Hall to
Coke, and Coke decked the place out with its logo, stitched in red beside
the logo of the Library of Congress. Television sets were placed throughout
the hall, the better for the Ambassadors and members of the Democratic
Leadership Council to check out the commercials.

Billington was selling the soul of the library to one of the world's most
powerful corporations. In addition to the ads, Coke was establishing a
fellowship at the Library for the study of "culture and communication" --
one fellow will receive $20,000 a year for the next five years.

Gary Ruskin, director of Commercial Alert, was outside the event,
protesting. "It is not the proper role of the taxpayer-financed Library of
Congress to help promote junk food like Coca-Cola to a nation that is
suffering skyrocketing levels of obesity," Ruskin said. "It is crass
commercialism for James Billington to degrade Jefferson's library and
founding ideals into a huckster's backdrop."

But without shame, Billington introduced Doug Daft, the president of
Coca-Cola, who said that "Coca-Cola has become an integral part of people's
lives by helping to tell these stories." Nothing about profits. Nothing
about overweight kids. Nothing about racism.

After Daft spoke, the room went dark, and the ads ran on the television
screens. Nostalgia swept the room. When the ads were finished, the lights
went back on and the crowd cheered.

About 80 high school students, dressed in Coca-Cola red sweaters, filled the
marble staircases and sang -- "I want to buy the world a Coke." Again, the
crowd cheered. Doug Daft, standing downstairs, came back to the microphone
to continue his statement. We were upstairs at this point, and we looked
down at him and asked, in a loud voice -- "Why are you using a public
library to promote a junk food product?"

The room went quiet. Library of Congress police charged up the marble
staircase. Doug Daft put his hand to his ear and shouted back to us: "What
did you say?"

In a louder voice, we shouted back: "Why are you using a public institution
to promote a junk food product?"

The next thing we know, we are on the ground. The Library of Congress police
had tackled us. Again, the crowd cheered -- not for our question, but for
the tackle.

We were dragged downstairs, past the Ambassador from Burma, and hauled
outside, where police officers from the District of Columbia were waiting
for us.

Out of the Thomas Jefferson building came running a man from Coke. "This is
a private event," the man from Coke told the police. "I'm from Coca-Cola."

At first, the police wanted nothing to do with the man from Coke. But the
man from Coke insisted. They huddled.

Apparently, the man from Coke didn't want us arrested for asking an obvious
question. Apparently, the man from Coke didn't want a public trial. The man
from Coke was standing up for our First Amendment rights to ask his boss a
question.

The police said we were to leave the grounds. And we weren't to come back.
Ever.

Russell Mokhiber is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based Corporate Crime
Reporter. Robert Weissman is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based
Multinational Monitor. They are co-authors of Corporate Predators: The Hunt
for MegaProfits and the Attack on Democracy (Monroe, Maine: Common Courage
Press, 1999).







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:936
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-02 11:21:46
Subject:Re: Fascism vs. Communism
Message:

Jim,

These are good points to bring up.

So fascist rule in Germany was not supported by large industry at
all?  That's an interesting point that I was unaware of.  I was
probably thinking in terms of the coup in France, which I know more
about than the Nazi ascension to power.  

I believe I am right in saying that the Nazis appealed to the values
of the small bourgeoisie and agriculture.  The actual historical
situation may be more nuanced, but is that generally the case?

Something I did forget to elaborate on was the difference between the
socialist movements at the time and the Nazi movement.  I only touched
on some ideological differences.  What specifically was the labor
movement's relationship to the Nazis?

Jim


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, jagross@e... wrote:
> 
> I restrained myself from quoting the whole message.  Let me just 
> respond to one point that I think is important ... 
> 
> 
> > make no mistake: while the fascist leader pays such lip service to
> > these classes, he is *actually* supported, the entire time, by the
> > most powerful industrialists.  The gran bourgeoisie, not the
petite
> > bourgeoisie, are the ones who abandon liberal democracy and bring
in
> > a Strongman to restore law and order against the proletariat. 
(For
> > more on this aspect of fascism, see Karl Marx, 18th Brumaire of 
> Louis
> > Bonaparte, or Barrington Moore, Social Origins of Dictatorship and
> > Democracy).
> 
> Okay, the problem here is differentiating between 1) The
relationship 
> between capitalism and fascism at the time of the _creation_ of a 
> dictatorship ... versus 2) The relationship between capitalism and 
> fascism after the dictatorship has been fully established.  In other 
> words, do _capitalists_ intend a dictatorship (1) or do they (2) 
> merely adapt opportunistically to the dictatorship once it is 
> established?  
> 
> Historically, capitalism adapted comfortably and happily to
Fascism.  
> But fascism was never intended by the 'big bourgeoisie'.  Especially 
> in Germany.  I'll briefly list the following articles of proof with 
> respect to the Nazis:
> 
> 1)  The power to appoint the Chancellor (in 1933) stood with a tiny 
> clique of isolated individuals surrounding the aging President 
> Hindenberg.  These included a few trusted old military figures and 
> Hindenberg's son.  Hitler's ascension to power was indeed determined 
> by very contingent political factors, by human choices.  A military 
> dictatorship was all but fated; a Nazi dictatorship was not.  The 
> last Chancellor before Hitler, Kurt von Schleicher, could have
rather 
> easily lead a military coup, and there might have never been a Nazi 
> dictatorship.  In fact, he seriously considered doing so.    
> 
> 2)  The 'big bourgeoisie' mostly opposed the Nazis, at worst 
> supporting the more authoritarian of the basically liberal (if not 
> fully democratic) parties.  THIS is an important point:  there may 
> have been an element of elitism on the part of many industrialists.  
> But this elitism, paradoxically, looked down upon the Antisemitism
of 
> the Fascists as vulgar, ugly and stupid.  It may have even been 
> viewed as a phenomenon of 'mob rule'.  
> 
> 3)  Many of the industrialists were at the head of industries that 
> benefitted from free trade policies.  The Nazis were shrill in their 
> condemnation of 'free trade'.  
> 
> 4)  Exceedingly detailed research has been done on how the Nazi
party 
> was funded.  All records point to a mass-based funding model much 
> like the Communists and Social Democrats, with greater reliance on 
> money collected from party rallies (which were much more spectacular 
> than those of the SPD or CP).  Industrialists contributed almost 
> nothing; when they contributed at all, it was very late in the game, 
> and only as a kind of desperate bribe.  Only one steel magnate, a
man 
> by the name of Fritz Thyssen, openly supported and contributed to
the 
> Nazis.  In 1934, he recanted and fled the country.  
> 
> There is only one argument that would seem at all logical.  It's a 
> bit roundabout.  
> 
> Industrialists during the Weimar period did _not_ contribute to the 
> Nazis, generally, nor support them.  They _did_, however, contribute 
> to the liberal parties, the left-liberal DDP and the right-liberal 
> DVP, in particular.  In the late 20's, they began to cut back their 
> funding, because they found that they were entirely unable to 
> influence the nation's economic policy through their support of, and 
> contributions to, these parties.  This helped lead to the collapse
of 
> the centrist parties, and thereby the parties that frequently
aligned 
> with the SPD to neutralize the Nazis. It also led to the effective 
> collapse of parliamentary rule.  But this hardly amounts to saying 
> that the bourgeoisie wanted fascism.  
> 
> Otherwise, yes, the bourgeoisie adapted to Fascism just fine.  But 
> Fascism is primarily political; it means the primacy of politics
over 
> economics, not the other way around.  
> 
> Bye,
> 
> Jeremy







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:937
Sender:jagross@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-03 01:07:45
Subject:Re: Fascism vs. Communism
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, jmluceno@e... wrote:
> Jim,

Ummmm ... ?! Well, nonetheless:

> These are good points to bring up.

If this is clogging up peoples' mailboxes, this can of course be 
taken over to the NJFO list.  But this is an interesting topic, 
considering especially that some people believe Fascism = Capitalism 
= Imperialism.  Which has truths to it, but also severe distortions 
that make coming up with an effective (useful) analysis of American 
politics, international economics, etc, sort of difficult.  
But it is only relevant in the most indirect sense.

> So fascist rule in Germany was not supported by large industry at
> all?  That's an interesting point that I was unaware of.  I was
> probably thinking in terms of the coup in France, which I know more
> about than the Nazi ascension to power.  

I was only referring to the rise of the Nazi Party and the seizure of 
power during 1933-5.  Fascist rule in Germany _after_ the Nazis 'won' 
is quite different:  there's plenty of reason to believe that 
capitalists profited greatly.  The point is that they didn't _want_ 
the Nazis to gain power; but they adjusted just fine afterwards. 

At least, this is what I gathered from a couple of books by the 
historian Henry A. Turner, _Hitler's 30 Days to Power_ and _Hitler 
and German Big Business_.  Turner's actually sort of conservative, 
but he presents some very overwhelming evidence.  I don't he can be 
dismissed as an apologist, let me put it that way. 

My understanding is that Marx's thesis is applicable when you start 
looking at questions of _how_ Hitler maintained support from the 
population once power had be attained.  It may be a useful tool of 
analysis because, if nothing else, the bourgeoisie was weak in German 
much as it had been in France in 1848.  

> I believe I am right in saying that the Nazis appealed to the values
> of the small bourgeoisie and agriculture.  The actual historical
> situation may be more nuanced, but is that generally the case?

That accords with what I understand to be true.  They especially 
appealed to lingering Feudal values, from what I know, the Junker 
class and a certain stratum of the peasantry that identified with 
them.  And, of course, they had the support of many small 
manufacturers who were losing out to the big manufacturers who often 
supported free trade policies.  But these manufacturers aren't what 
you could call the vanguard of capitalism, and they often subscribed 
to a feudal, agrarian 'ideological superstructure'.

> Something I did forget to elaborate on was the difference between 
the
> socialist movements at the time and the Nazi movement.  I only 
touched
> on some ideological differences.  What specifically was the labor
> movement's relationship to the Nazis?

I never really studied that.  The interesting question would be, I 
guess, to what extent did the Nazis ally with the SPD and Communists 
on policy issues.  It's important to note that the Nazis had a 'left' 
and 'right' wing, as bizarre as that sounds, and even had a kind of 
labor union (a 'factory cell' structure, I think in the Trotskyist 
style).  Obviously, the relevant point is that the Socialists and 
Communists were crushed, and the labor movement destroyed in the 
earliest years of the Nazi dictatorship.  Labor leaders were amongst 
the very first people to be sent to the camps, as far as I know.








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Post ID:938
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-03 13:18:44
Subject:Re: Brothel
Message:

New Brunswick cops jailed for brothel 

01/03/01

BY JIM O'NEILL
STAR-LEDGER STAFF

















Despite pleas for leniency and vows of innocence, two New Brunswick police 
officers were sentenced to prison yesterday for running a brothel. They were 
also banned from ever working as cops again. 


"I stand before you as an innocent man," Sgt. Marco Chinchilla, 41, told the 
judge before being hauled away by Middlesex County sheriff's officers. 


"I will endure this and I know that God will be with me," he said, his voice 
cracking with emotion. "I'm innocent, judge. I'm innocent." 


An unmoved Superior Court Judge Barnett Hoffman sentenced Detective James 
Marshall to four years and Chinchilla to three years, despite tearful pleas 
from their families. 


"A message must be sent to people who protect society against criminals that 
they cannot become criminals," Hoffman said. "No one is above the law, 
including police officers." 


Marshall, 44, remained silent when asked if he wanted to address the court, 
but his mother, Helen, wept as she begged the judge to be lenient. 


"Jimmy is innocent and to my dying day, I believe that," she said. 


Hoffman, sitting in New Brunswick, said there was no reason to keep Marshall 
and Chinchilla out of prison. 


Attorneys said that with a four- year term, Marshall could become eligible 
for parole after serving a year to 19 months. Chinchilla, with the three-year 
term, could be paroled in nine to 15 months. 


Three co-conspirators also were sentenced yesterday. 


Luis Posadas, a 40-year-old New Brunswick businessman, was sentenced to three 
years for helping run the brothel, which operated out of the third floor of a 
warehouse on Jersey Avenue in New Brunswick from March to July 1998. 


Hoffman meted out a one-year probationary term for Michelle Thibeault, 31, 
who was convicted of helping run the brothel and working as a prostitute. 
Joyce Sweeney, 32, was placed on probation for a year for helping run the 
place. She was cleared of an accusation that she, too, worked as a 
prostitute. 


Before appearing in court yesterday, Marshall and Chinchilla -- both 16-year 
police veterans -- had been hoping to avoid prison by winning a new trial, 
but those dreams were quickly dashed when the judge ruled there was no basis 
for the request. 


Attorneys argued that one juror, Winston Smith, failed to disclose a November 
1997 arrest in Piscataway on drug charges. 


Barry Albin, a Woodbridge attorney representing Marshall, said the defense 
would have excused Smith from the jury box, asserting he could not fairly sit 
in judgment of the police officers. Both of them worked narcotics 
investigations during their careers. 


Hoffman said Smith was cleared and was not obliged to mention the arrest 
during jury selection. Hoffman also said he was satisfied Smith was a fair 
and impartial juror. 


Hoffman later rejected a request to allow Marshall and Chinchilla to remain 
free while the issue is appealed. The judge said he saw no reason to delay 
incarceration. 


In addition to the terms, the judge fined Marshall, Chinchilla and Posadas 
$1,280 each. Thibeault was fined $1,155 and Sweeney, $655. 


During a five-week trial that ended with convictions on Oct. 26, Assistant 
Middlesex County Prosecutor Lawrence Welle portrayed Marshall and Chinchilla 
as officers who ran astray of the law, expecting they would not be caught. 


The business fell apart, the prosecution charged, after one of the 
prostitutes, Katherine Saddler, tipped police, claiming she was fired and 
never got money she was owed. 


She described for the jury a thriving massage parlor in which hookers pranced 
from showers to massage rooms, providing customers with sexual services. 


The officers denied any wrongdoing as the defense tried to portray Saddler as 
a drug abuser who concocted the account to avoid her own scrapes with the 
law. 


Marshall faces four additional trials in which he is accused of drug 
peddling, perjury and soliciting bribes. He also is accused of allowing two 
other houses of prostitution to operate in New Brunswick. He denies any 
wrongdoing. No trial dates have been set. 


Jim O'Neill covers the Middlesex County courts. He can be reached at 
joneill@... or at (732) 249-5670. 






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:940
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-03 16:51:17
Subject:THE PACIFICA COUNTERREVOLUTION HITS WBAI:
Message:

Would anyone be interested in going to a rally at 120 Wall St. this Saturday 
at noon?  When we consider the struggle in the superstructure, and that 
building independant institutions is one of our main tasks, then the recent 
events at WBAI must be viewed as a serious setback to the left and our 
movement at a time when we can least afford it.  Listen to 99.5 in the 
morning before 9am and between 3&5pm if you want to hear the struggle 
unfold.  Those are two spots that Utrice Leid, the traitor Interim Manager 
has inserted scab broadcasters. Also, check out the websites below for more 
info.  Matt

THE PACIFICA COUNTERREVOLUTION HITS WBAI:
Another Call for Action

Edward S. Herman

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

One of the most crushing series of blows to the U.S. left, and to democracy 
in this country, has been the gradual transformation of the five station 
Pacifica Radio network from locally-based and left-oriented stations into 
centrally controlled, mainstream institutions. Before 1990, all five 
stations in the network were locally oriented, locally managed with strong 
inputs from local audiences and employees, and both highly political and 
progressive. During the 1990s, however, three of the stations--Houston, 
Washington and Los Angeles--were pushed into the mainstream by the Pacifica 
management, with only KPFA in Berkeley and WBAI in New York City remaining 
as holdovers of the earlier tradition.

On December 26, however, the Washington management seized control of WBAI, 
removing the long-time manager Valerie Van Isler, firing Program Director 
Bernard White and producer Sharan Harper without notice, changing the locks 
on the doors in the middle of the night, and installing a new manager from 
within the WBAI staff secretly primed for her new job. Only people on an 
approved list, which did not include Pacifica Foundation board member Leslie 
Cagan, were admitted to the station on December 27. There has been nothing 
democratic about any actions of the Pacifica management for many years, and 
with one of its board members a member of a law firm with a specialty in 
union-busting, the management has long mastered the art of using every trick 
in that trade.

It will be recalled that the Pacifica management had tried to remake KPFA in 
Berkeley several years ago, locking out the employees, firing many, bringing 
in security forces and strikebreakers, but meeting such resistance, with 
10,000 protesters in the streets, and getting such negative publicity that 
the management had to retreat. The stalemate resulted in a tacit settlement 
that gave KPFA and WBAI temporary autonomy and led to the appointment of 
several new representatives of the audiences and stations to the Pacifica 
board.

But this settlement was only temporary, and the new board members quickly 
discovered that they were not listened to and were kept outside any 
decision-making process, sometimes by illegal actions (and two of the 
dissident board members have an ongoing suit against the board based on 
these illegalities). That the central management was on the march again, and 
that a takeover of WBAI might be in the works, was suggested by the 
sustained attack on Amy Goodman and her Democracy Now! program that 
escalated this past September and October. Goodman has long been harassed by 
the Pacifica top management for her lack of sympathy with Clinton and 
general failure to stick with the approved media agenda. She was brought to 
Washington in September and told quite clearly that her focus on East Timor, 
capital punishment, Mumia Abu-Jamal, Lori Berenson (etc.) was excessive. 
Former board chair Mary Frances Berry called her "troublesome," and said 
that she had "embarrassed" the network, possibly meaning Berry herself and 
her friends and colleagues in the Democratic Party. In October Goodman was 
once again brought to Washington and directly threatened with termination 
unless she refrained from using volunteers and cleared her programs in 
advance in Washington (among other demands). She immediately filed a 
grievance with the union for harassment and censorship.

A problem for the Pacifica elite is that Goodman's show heavily outdraws 
their regular news programs, and most other Pacifica programs as well. This 
makes it awkward for them as they claim to be reforming Pacifica in the 
interest of enlarging audience size, which they have been trying to do by 
substituting popular music for politics (and softening any politics that 
remains). But Goodman's show and its successes in drawing audiences suggests 
that critical politics can be quite popular if done well. That she is 
regarded negatively by the Pacifica brass reflects political bias and a 
determination to defang and depoliticize the network in accord with the 
biases of the top management and their constituency. The constituency of the 
"old Pacifica" was the local audiences and employees and volunteers; the 
constituency of the "new Pacifica" of Bessie Wash and Mary Frances Berry is 
Washington power brokers, officials of the Corporation for Public 
Broadcasting, and the Democratic Party.

Even the New York Times notes that the Pacifica Foundation was initially 
based on "a lack of corporate control and its dedication to peace," and 
represented "grass roots, alternative broadcasting" (Jayson Blair, "Pacifica 
Foundation Locks WBAI Station Manager Out of Office," Dec, 28, 2000). The 
"new Pacifica" has changed course, and has abandoned both its grass roots 
base and alternative broadcasting. Its attack on Amy Goodman and the current 
takeover of WBAI are a part of this de-democratization and political 
neutering. This process has resulted from the capture of the Pacifica 
Foundation by a small group of liberal technocrats and Democratic 
Party-linked officials, who have added to their controlling board membership 
businesspeople in the real estate, construction, and corporate law fields to 
support them in their remaking of Pacifica. They have moved Pacifica's 
headquarters from Berkeley to Washington DC, in keeping with the shift in 
their constituency from audiences and employees to Washington power brokers.

We are dealing here with a kind of coup d'etat, and a systematic destruction 
of a major left institution in the wake of that coup. Given the importance 
of the media in hegemonic processes, and in contesting those processes, what 
is happening to Pacifica, and now WBAI, should be first order business for 
the left. This was our only radio network, and it is being destroyed! It is 
a horrifying fact that a chunk of the left actually signed Saul Landau's 
letter in 1999 which defended the Pacifica management and urged the left to 
stop its "Pacifica bashing," with "Pacifica" identified with the management 
group that was destroying the old Pacifica and picking off left journalists 
and stations one by one. Some of the signers are people trying, for example, 
to contest corporate globalization, a subject on which Amy Goodman and the 
old WBAI would give their contesting position extensive and friendly 
coverage, but which the emerging "new Pacifica" will ignore or treat 
perfunctorily. (The "new Pacifica" Washington station WPFW, formerly run by 
current Pacifica Executive Director Bessie Wash, has been notoriously 
uninterested in protests against not only the dominant political party 
conventions, but those against the World Bank and IMF.) The lack of left 
solidarity involved in signing the Landau letter is equalled only by the 
sheer short-sightedness and stupidity of helping destroy a media institution 
that was a natural ally, if not part of the left itself.

The battle over Pacifica and WBAI is not over. There are mounting protests 
against the WBAI takeover, and there are at least three legal suits in 
process against the Pacifica Foundation control group. I would urge people 
to get into action now. This is important! It was encouraging to see the New 
York Times finally come up with an article on December 28 putting the WBAI 
takeover in a negative light for both tactics and implied violation of 
organizational purpose. This is the time to move into action with letters, 
phone calls, picketing, and contributions to the funding of legal responses 
to illegitimate authority. Information on the issues and names and actions 
under way can be obtained from these key sites:

Hotline: 800-825-0055 to volunteer
718-707-7189 for e-mail and updates

Local WBAI sites:
www.glib.com WBAI union
www.wbai.net WBAI listeners

Sites: general info and background
www.radio4all.org/freepacifica
www.savepacifica.net



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:941
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-03 17:17:18
Subject:NJFOG (Foundation for Open Government
Message:

Hi, neighboring New Brunswickians!  

I thought you would be interested in this watch
dog/nonpartisan organization NJFOG (Foundation for
Open Government) just forming in NJ & based on other
states' efforts to open access to our government.
This coalition has been a big support for several of
us in HP trying to get public records that should be
open.

{A follow-up email will contain a letter explaining
the
incorporation of NJ FOG (NJ Foundation for open
Government), our mission & goals, as well as the
immediate need for such an organization.}

The coalition OPRA has been informally working on open
records legislation over the past 2 years and is
formally incorporating to continue this work in a
formal & organized way.  We invite all interested
people and organizations to join.

Our first meeting:  Jan. 13, Saturday in Highland Park
at 11 AM and will adjourn at 1:30 PM. 

Agenda: includes an overview of the present
legislative picture and the organization of NJ FOG
(Board of Trustees will be elected from the members,
Executive Committee elected, etc.)

As it stands, the Senate will be voting on its version
of the Open Public Records Act in late January.  In
some ways it is a stronger and in some ways a weaker
bill than the A1309 passed by the Assembly in late
spring.  Part of the latter has been due to pressure
from the Attorney General's Office and Rutgers
University.  The Coaliton is working on strengthening
this bill.  Whatever the outcome, NJFOG will
incorporate as a long-term government access watch
dog, a place where both residents and government
officials can turn to for education and support on
open government issues.

The organizaing committee/coalition consists of
members from the Society of Professional Journalists,
the citizen's groups VOICES, Highland Park Observers,
Citizen Action, etc.  Other organizations have been
working along side as well.  

We invite all interested
people and organizations to come or send a
representative to this organizing meeting as we set up
NJ FOG.  This organization is based on those of other
states that have worked on government access issues;
NJ FOG will also be a member of the National Freedomof
Information organization.
Membership will entail dues; although the type of
membership/dues structure is still to be determined
once the Board is established.  Individual dues will
be very reasonable.  The Society of
Professional Journalists has provided monetary support
for the start-up and incorporation of NJ FOG.

if you have any questions, please contact me. Please
let me know if you are interested... 

Anne Barron
732-545-4908

Zofia Nowakowski
Fiscal Policy Institute
275 Seventh Ave, 6th Floor
T: 212-414-9306
F: 212-414-9002







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:942
Sender:Alyssa Coiley <ajoy110@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-03 21:03:16
Subject:room for rent
Message:

hi 
this is alyssa coiley and i am an activist from
Chicago who lives in Newark now.  i am looking to move
to New Brunswick this month, actually like asap.  if
anyone knows of a room available i would really
appreciate if you would let me know.

thanks a lot
alyssa joy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:943
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-03 23:02:23
Subject:Re: Fascism vs. Communism
Message:

Keith, No, I don't think you're right about it being the expression of monopoly capitalism.  Even Uncle Karl would disagree when he says the state comes into a power of its own, mostly apart from the bourgeoisie.  Check out 18th Brumaire.  I'll look up relevant passages later when I have time. Peace, Jim
>      Actually Hitler was well financed by not only the German big bourgeois but also
> some Americans (Henry Ford for instance).  An explaination of Hitler's financing is
> available in a book called "Who Financed Hitler".  .
>      The point that the big bourgeois would prefer bourgeois democracy to outright
> dictatorship I think is true.  Just look at them in the US they love to debate among
> themselves on all sorts of things.  The reason the big bourgeois supported the
> dicatorship of Hitler was first, they feared a working class revolution.  Their fear
> was based not only on the victory of the proletariat in the Soviet Union but also on
> the fact that the working class had taken state power in Germany in 1918.  Secondly,
> Hitler gave the big bourgeois complete control over the economy.  Historically
> speaking fascism attacks a retreating working class a kick 'em when their down kind of
> thinking. R. Palm Dutt explains this in his book Fascism and Social Revolution.  He
> uses the example of Italy, Austria and Germany to make a pretty convincing case.  All
> three countries went fascist but only after the working class had  state power within
> or in its grasp, only to be betrayed by its social democratic "leaders".
>      I think that it is a mistake to say that fascism is the "primacy of politics over
> economics".  In fact, I think it would be the other way around.  Fascism is the
> outright dictatorship of monopoly capital. Humanity becomes completly subordinated to
> the needs of big capital.  The needs of capital in times of severe economic crisis are
> most easily met through war;  the destruction of the productive forces as a cure to
> the economic crisis which is one of overproduction. Nazism is the most extreme form of
> barbarous capitalism because it includes not only war as a means of destruction to
> solve the economic crisis but genocide as well.
> 
> jmluceno@e... wrote:
> 
> > Jim,
> >
> > These are good points to bring up.
> >
> > So fascist rule in Germany was not supported by large industry at
> > all?  That's an interesting point that I was unaware of.  I was
> > probably thinking in terms of the coup in France, which I know more
> > about than the Nazi ascension to power.
> >
> > I believe I am right in saying that the Nazis appealed to the values
> > of the small bourgeoisie and agriculture.  The actual historical
> > situation may be more nuanced, but is that generally the case?
> >
> > Something I did forget to elaborate on was the difference between the
> > socialist movements at the time and the Nazi movement.  I only touched
> > on some ideological differences.  What specifically was the labor
> > movement's relationship to the Nazis?
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, jagross@e... wrote:
> > >
> > > I restrained myself from quoting the whole message.  Let me just
> > > respond to one point that I think is important ...
> > >
> > >
> > > > make no mistake: while the fascist leader pays such lip service to
> > > > these classes, he is *actually* supported, the entire time, by the
> > > > most powerful industrialists.  The gran bourgeoisie, not the
> > petite
> > > > bourgeoisie, are the ones who abandon liberal democracy and bring
> > in
> > > > a Strongman to restore law and order against the proletariat.
> > (For
> > > > more on this aspect of fascism, see Karl Marx, 18th Brumaire of
> > > Louis
> > > > Bonaparte, or Barrington Moore, Social Origins of Dictatorship and
> > > > Democracy).
> > >
> > > Okay, the problem here is differentiating between 1) The
> > relationship
> > > between capitalism and fascism at the time of the _creation_ of a
> > > dictatorship ... versus 2) The relationship between capitalism and
> > > fascism after the dictatorship has been fully established.  In other
> > > words, do _capitalists_ intend a dictatorship (1) or do they (2)
> > > merely adapt opportunistically to the dictatorship once it is
> > > established?
> > >
> > > Historically, capitalism adapted comfortably and happily to
> > Fascism.
> > > But fascism was never intended by the 'big bourgeoisie'.  Especially
> > > in Germany.  I'll briefly list the following articles of proof with
> > > respect to the Nazis:
> > >
> > > 1)  The power to appoint the Chancellor (in 1933) stood with a tiny
> > > clique of isolated individuals surrounding the aging President
> > > Hindenberg.  These included a few trusted old military figures and
> > > Hindenberg's son.  Hitler's ascension to power was indeed determined
> > > by very contingent political factors, by human choices.  A military
> > > dictatorship was all but fated; a Nazi dictatorship was not.  The
> > > last Chancellor before Hitler, Kurt von Schleicher, could have
> > rather
> > > easily lead a military coup, and there might have never been a Nazi
> > > dictatorship.  In fact, he seriously considered doing so.
> > >
> > > 2)  The 'big bourgeoisie' mostly opposed the Nazis, at worst
> > > supporting the more authoritarian of the basically liberal (if not
> > > fully democratic) parties.  THIS is an important point:  there may
> > > have been an element of elitism on the part of many industrialists.
> > > But this elitism, paradoxically, looked down upon the Antisemitism
> > of
> > > the Fascists as vulgar, ugly and stupid.  It may have even been
> > > viewed as a phenomenon of 'mob rule'.
> > >
> > > 3)  Many of the industrialists were at the head of industries that
> > > benefitted from free trade policies.  The Nazis were shrill in their
> > > condemnation of 'free trade'.
> > >
> > > 4)  Exceedingly detailed research has been done on how the Nazi
> > party
> > > was funded.  All records point to a mass-based funding model much
> > > like the Communists and Social Democrats, with greater reliance on
> > > money collected from party rallies (which were much more spectacular
> > > than those of the SPD or CP).  Industrialists contributed almost
> > > nothing; when they contributed at all, it was very late in the game,
> > > and only as a kind of desperate bribe.  Only one steel magnate, a
> > man
> > > by the name of Fritz Thyssen, openly supported and contributed to
> > the
> > > Nazis.  In 1934, he recanted and fled the country.
> > >
> > > There is only one argument that would seem at all logical.  It's a
> > > bit roundabout.
> > >
> > > Industrialists during the Weimar period did _not_ contribute to the
> > > Nazis, generally, nor support them.  They _did_, however, contribute
> > > to the liberal parties, the left-liberal DDP and the right-liberal
> > > DVP, in particular.  In the late 20's, they began to cut back their
> > > funding, because they found that they were entirely unable to
> > > influence the nation's economic policy through their support of, and
> > > contributions to, these parties.  This helped lead to the collapse
> > of
> > > the centrist parties, and thereby the parties that frequently
> > aligned
> > > with the SPD to neutralize the Nazis. It also led to the effective
> > > collapse of parliamentary rule.  But this hardly amounts to saying
> > > that the bourgeoisie wanted fascism.
> > >
> > > Otherwise, yes, the bourgeoisie adapted to Fascism just fine.  But
> > > Fascism is primarily political; it means the primacy of politics
> > over
> > > economics, not the other way around.
> > >
> > > Bye,
> > >
> > > Jeremy
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:944
Sender:Karen A <renren59@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-04 13:31:35
Subject:Re: [nbpc] room for rent
Message:

Alyssa,
I called you a couple of times, but the phone was busy
alot!!!
I"m having a really busy week, and I'm not home much,
but I wouldn't mind helping you if we could connect at
all.  Have you tried Rutger's Housing on George St? 
Also, put up signs at the co-op and the student
centers.  The Home News Tribune can also be a good
source, at times.
Karen
--- Alyssa Coiley <ajoy110@...> wrote:
> hi 
> this is alyssa coiley and i am an activist from
> Chicago who lives in Newark now.  i am looking to
> move
> to New Brunswick this month, actually like asap.  if
> anyone knows of a room available i would really
> appreciate if you would let me know.
> 
> thanks a lot
> alyssa joy
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:945
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-04 13:53:18
Subject:Re: [nbpc] NJFOG (Foundation for Open Government
Message:

Paul & Co.-
You might want to consider contacting these folks regarding the Right to 
Know lawsuit that the Coalition has pending.  Speaking of which, if the 
Coalition is to become active again, following up on this lawsuit ought to 
be a top priority, in addition to whatever Pat has going on. (Still on the 
mend...I don't think I'll be up to going to tonights NJFO meeting, but send 
out a note where it's going to be just in case.)  Matthew

>From: "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] NJFOG (Foundation for Open Government
>Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:17:18 -0500
>
>Hi, neighboring New Brunswickians!
>
>I thought you would be interested in this watch
>dog/nonpartisan organization NJFOG (Foundation for
>Open Government) just forming in NJ & based on other
>states' efforts to open access to our government.
>This coalition has been a big support for several of
>us in HP trying to get public records that should be
>open.
>
>{A follow-up email will contain a letter explaining
>the
>incorporation of NJ FOG (NJ Foundation for open
>Government), our mission & goals, as well as the
>immediate need for such an organization.}
>
>The coalition OPRA has been informally working on open
>records legislation over the past 2 years and is
>formally incorporating to continue this work in a
>formal & organized way.  We invite all interested
>people and organizations to join.
>
>Our first meeting:  Jan. 13, Saturday in Highland Park
>at 11 AM and will adjourn at 1:30 PM.
>
>Agenda: includes an overview of the present
>legislative picture and the organization of NJ FOG
>(Board of Trustees will be elected from the members,
>Executive Committee elected, etc.)
>
>As it stands, the Senate will be voting on its version
>of the Open Public Records Act in late January.  In
>some ways it is a stronger and in some ways a weaker
>bill than the A1309 passed by the Assembly in late
>spring.  Part of the latter has been due to pressure
>from the Attorney General's Office and Rutgers
>University.  The Coaliton is working on strengthening
>this bill.  Whatever the outcome, NJFOG will
>incorporate as a long-term government access watch
>dog, a place where both residents and government
>officials can turn to for education and support on
>open government issues.
>
>The organizaing committee/coalition consists of
>members from the Society of Professional Journalists,
>the citizen's groups VOICES, Highland Park Observers,
>Citizen Action, etc.  Other organizations have been
>working along side as well.
>
>We invite all interested
>people and organizations to come or send a
>representative to this organizing meeting as we set up
>NJ FOG.  This organization is based on those of other
>states that have worked on government access issues;
>NJ FOG will also be a member of the National Freedomof
>Information organization.
>Membership will entail dues; although the type of
>membership/dues structure is still to be determined
>once the Board is established.  Individual dues will
>be very reasonable.  The Society of
>Professional Journalists has provided monetary support
>for the start-up and incorporation of NJ FOG.
>
>if you have any questions, please contact me. Please
>let me know if you are interested...
>
>Anne Barron
>732-545-4908
>
>Zofia Nowakowski
>Fiscal Policy Institute
>275 Seventh Ave, 6th Floor
>T: 212-414-9306
>F: 212-414-9002
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:946
Sender:jagross@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-05 03:36:37
Subject:Re: Fascism vs. Communism
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...>

Hey,

Good to hear from you again. 

Okay:

Quote
****
Actually Hitler was well financed by not only the German big 
bourgeois but also some Americans (Henry Ford for instance).   An 
explaination of Hitler's financing is available in a book called "Who 
Financed Hitler".   . The point that the big bourgeois would prefer 
bourgeois democracy to outright dictatorship I think is true.   Just 
look at them in the US they love to debate among themselves on all 
sorts of things.   The reason the big bourgeois supported the 
dicatorship of Hitler was first, they feared a working class 
revolution.   Their fear was based not only on the victory of the 
proletariat in the Soviet Union but also on the fact that the working 
class had taken state power in Germany in 1918.   Secondly, Hitler 
gave the big bourgeois complete control over the economy.   
****

To say that some individuals from the ranks of the bourgeoisie 
supported Hitler is one thing.  The book you mention above, from the 
reviews I read of it, seems to claim just this.  To say, however, 
that Hitler was _largely_ supported by the bourgeoisie is a very 
different claim.  The proof is overwhelming that he was _not_ 
overwhelmingly financed nor supported by the bourgeoisie.

What's historically important is who _primarily_ supported and 
financed the Nazis.  Primarily, he was supported by the petite 
bourgeoisie, by feudal aristocratic types, by the sorts of people who 
supported Louis Napoleon in France in the 1840's.  

As for fear of Communist revolution:  this is why the bourgeoisie 
became peacefully accostomed to working with the Social Democrats 
throughout the 1920's.  They preferred labor regulations and a 
welfare state to _both_ Communism and Nazism.  

Quote:
***
Historically speaking fascism attacks a retreating working class a 
kick 'em when their down kind of thinking. R. Palm Dutt explains this 
in his book Fascism and Social Revolution.   He uses the example of 
Italy, Austria and Germany to make a pretty convincing case.   All 
three countries went fascist but only after the working class had   
state power within or in its grasp, only to be betrayed by its social 
democratic "leaders". I think that it is a mistake to say that 
fascism is the "primacy of politics over economics".   In fact, I 
think it would be the other way around.   Fascism is the outright 
dictatorship of monopoly capital. Humanity becomes completly 
subordinated to the needs of big capital.   The needs of capital in 
times of severe economic crisis are most easily met through war;   
the destruction of the productive forces as a cure to the economic 
crisis which is one of overproduction. Nazism is the most extreme 
form of barbarous capitalism because it includes not only war as a 
means of destruction to solve the economic crisis but genocide as 
well. 
***

Upon further reflection, I think you'd have an awfully tough time 
defending the last statement here, that genocide somehow helped the 
Nazis to resolve the crisis of capitalism.  If anything, it was 
certainly bad for capitalism.  Many prominent scientists, 
businessment and intellectuals were Jewish.  Entire areas of research 
were banned as being inherently "Jewish"; the most advanced physics 
of the time (Quantum Mechanics and Relativity) was banned as "Jewish 
Physics".  

If you want an instance of capitalists overthrowing bourgeois 
democracy and imposing a dictatorship, look to Chile or Guatemala, 
not Nazi Germany. 

TTYL,

Jeremy













-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:947
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-06 15:14:17
Subject:Fwd: Update on legal situation for Jan. 20 counter-inaugural from IAC
Message:

i want to make sure that jim schultz gets this info...


>From: iacenter@...
>Reply-To: "Jan 20 endorsers"<iacenter@...>
>To: "Jan 20 endorsers"<iacenter@...>
>Subject: Update on legal situation for Jan. 20 counter-inaugural from IAC
>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 20:23:59 -0500
>
>INTERNATIONAL ACTION CENTER UPDATE ON THE LEGAL SITUATION
>WITH THE JANUARY 20 COUNTER-INAUGURAL DEMONSTRATION
>
>The Partnership for Civil Justice�the DC-based attorneys who are
>representing the International Action Center and other
>protesters�have sent a letter to DC Police Chief Charles H. Ramsey,
>United States Park Police Chief Robert E. Langston, National Park
>Service Director Robert Stanton, and United States Capitol Police Chief
>James Varey.
>
>The legal team is insisting that people who oppose the Bush
>administration have the right to express their opinion, to obtain permits
>and to demonstrate their point of view in the area of the inaugural
>event. The letter to the police requests specific information and
>clarification on outstanding issues related to permits and police conduct
>on January 20.  The legal team has given the police agencies until the
>close of the business day Monday, January 8, to respond.
>
>Let us be very clear on our goal in this endeavor: We intend to obtain a
>permit so that thousands of people can participate in a mass rally on
>January 20.  We are launching a campaign to uphold our rights that will
>use all available legal avenues as well as public pressure.
>
>The IAC will be giving everyone a comprehensive report on the status
>of the permits, outstanding legal issues and other tactics at our
>upcoming Regional Organizers Meeting on Tuesday, January 9.  It will
>be held at 6:30 pm at Local 169 UNITE union hall, 33 W. 14th St. in New
>York City.  It is very important for everyone who can to attend this
>meeting.
>
>The police officials have been attempting to create a climate of fear
>and confusion to deliberately dissuade thousands of people from
>demonstrating at the Bush inauguration.  The police agencies have told
>the media that they intend to set up check points along the inaugural
>route.  This is precisely the tactic that the pro-Bush forces used in
>Florida: setting up check points outside voting booths, especially in
>African American and Haitian communities.
>
>After having disenfranchised tens of thousands of voters in the general
>election, the Bush administration wants to disenfranchise thousands of
>protesters who want to exercise their First Amendment right to say
>"NO" to the death penalty, racism and racist disenfranchisement, and to
>raise other issues.
>
>We are confident that we can defeat what has been a systematic level
>of intimidation.  To succeed, the IAC and it allies to employ every
>means at our disposal. We will pursue every avenue available to us.
>This is because we believe that the highest priority is to make sure that
>thousands and thousands of people come to Washington, DC on
>January 20.
>
>The right-wing Bush administration would like to guarantee that the
>next four years will be ones with no protests against racism, the death
>penalty and war.  But that is a fantasy because our movement is going
>to grow.
>
>Again, make sure you organize to come to the January 9 Regional
>Organizers Meeting to get a full report, as well as to pick up flyers,
>posters, stickers and bus tickets.  It will be held at 6:30 pm at Local
>169 UNITE union hall, 33 W. 14th St. in New York City.
>
>International Action Center
>39 West 14th Street, Room 206
>New York, NY 10011
>email: iacenter@...
>web: http://www.iacenter.org
>CHECK OUT SITE
>    http://www.mumia2000.org
>phone: 212 633-6646
>fax:   212 633-2889
>*To make a tax-deductible donation,
>go to
>   http://www.peoplesrightsfund.org

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:948
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-06 15:23:39
Subject:Fwd: NYC bus transportation to DC for Jan. 20
Message:

FYI


>From: iacenter@...
>Reply-To: "Jan 20 endorsers"<iacenter@...>
>To: "Jan 20 endorsers"<iacenter@...>
>Subject: NYC bus transportation to DC for Jan. 20
>Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:38:15 -0500
>
>BUS TRANSPORTATION TO JANUARY 20
>PROTEST IN DC AT BUSH'S INAUGURATION
>
>The International Action Center is chartering a large number of buses
>for the New York area to take demonstrators to Washington DC on
>January 20.
>
>BUS DEPARTURE TIME AND LOCATIONS
>Buses will depart at 5 am on January 20 from the following locations:
>Manhattan:
>      14th St. and Union Square West
>      96th St. and Broadway
>      125th St. and Harlem State Office Building
>Brooklyn
>      Grand Army Plaza/Brooklyn Public Library
>
>PURCHASING BUS TICKETS
>To ride on a chartered bus, you must purchase your bus ticket in
>advance.  The round-trip tickets are $30 ($25 for low income).  Tickets
>can be purchased from the International Action Center office.  Tickets
>can be purchased by check until January 16.  Write checks to
>International Action Center.  IAC office hours are Monday - Thursday
>10 am-8 pm; Friday 10 am-7 pm; Saturday 11 am-5pm.
>
>SELLING TICKETS ON CONSIGNMENT
>Blocks of tickets can be taken on consignment for selling to friends, co-
>workers, members of your group, church, school, union, etc.  Ask for
>more information.
>
>FOR GROUPS, SCHOOLS, CHURCHES, UNIONS, ETC.
>Many groups and schools are chartering their own buses to the march.
>Please let the International Action Center office know if you are
>organizing a bus.  Also, call the office if you need information or
>assistance regarding bus rental.  Bus packets, driving instructions and
>bus captain orientations will be available the week before the march.
>
>*For bus transportation from areas around the country, go to
>www.iacenter.org or www.mumia2000.org for the organizing center
>nearest you.
>
>
>International Action Center
>39 West 14th Street, Room 206
>New York, NY 10011
>email: iacenter@...
>web: http://www.iacenter.org
>CHECK OUT SITE
>    http://www.mumia2000.org
>phone: 212 633-6646
>fax:   212 633-2889
>*To make a tax-deductible donation,
>go to
>   http://www.peoplesrightsfund.org

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:949
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-05 01:13:28
Subject:Statment of Support to WBAI
Message:

On behalf of NJFO, I have issued this statement in support of the staff at 
WBAI.  Our organization may now appear on their own public statement 
condemning the take-over and firings.

To the Staff at WBAI:

We realize the gravity of the ongoing situation at
WBAI.  At this stage in the development of the
progressive and revolutionary movement, independant
media outlets for the free and democratic dissemination
of ideas and information are critical.  The actions of
Pacifica, in capitulation with certain members of the
WBAI staff, should be seen for what it is: the first step
in the corporatization of this important community outlet
and organizing tool.  With the recent right-wing
takeover of big government, the need for open access
to this outlet has become even more critical.  We urge
you to continue struggling to undo the damage that has
been done, and we support your demand that all staff
that have been wrongly fired be immediately brought
back.  And we will do what we can where we are, in
New Brunswick and Newark, NJ, to spread this
information and build support.

In Unity & Struggle,
Matthew Smith
New Jersey Freedom Organization
(732) 545-5756



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:950
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-06 15:04:12
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Fascism vs. Communism
Message:

for further information on Hitler financing, check out "Ford and the Fuhrer: 
new documents reveal the close ties between Dearborn and the Nazis", by Ken 
Silverstein (The Nation, 1/24/00). It's a detailed expose of the intimate 
relationship between Henry Ford and the German Nazi Party.

Silverstein writes:

"Ford Motor set up shop in Germany in 1925, when it opened an office in 
Berlin. Six years later, it built a large plant in Cologne, which became its 
headquarters in the country. Ford of Germany prospered during the Nazi 
years, especially with the economic boom brought on by WWII. Sales increased 
by more than half between 1938 and 1943, and, according to a US Government 
report found at the National Archives, the value of the German subsidiary 
more than doubled during the course of the war... Ford eagerly collaborated 
with the Nazis, which enhanced its business prospects and at the same time 
helped Hitler prepare for war ..."

this certainly provides an interesting exception to Jeremy's thesis that the 
capitalists got down with the Nazis only after they came to power. in H. 
Ford's case, we can see that the fool was a big subscriber of nazi ideology, 
which sparked his support of Hitler right off the bat. certainly, not all 
companies were the same, but we can't forget that the power of ideological 
agreement.

an important extrapolation from the Ford/Fuhrer connection  is the 
relationship between US Ford and the American labor movement. There were 
vicious strikes in Detroit before the UAW secured a stronghold at Ford, 
during which many stormtrooper-esque goons were unleashed on man, woman, and 
child alike to beat their brains in for supporting the union. Ford did much 
to inspire the proliferation of Cold War ideology in the US, and to redbait 
militant unionists. For more info, check out "the most dangerous man in 
Detroit:Walter Reuther and the UAW".

kristina

>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: Fascism vs. Communism
>Date: Sat, 16 Feb 1980 01:58:42 -0500
>
>      Actually Hitler was well financed by not only the German big 
>bourgeois but also
>some Americans (Henry Ford for instance).  An explaination of Hitler's 
>financing is
>available in a book called "Who Financed Hitler".  .
>      The point that the big bourgeois would prefer bourgeois democracy to 
>outright
>dictatorship I think is true.  Just look at them in the US they love to 
>debate among
>themselves on all sorts of things.  The reason the big bourgeois supported 
>the
>dicatorship of Hitler was first, they feared a working class revolution.  
>Their fear
>was based not only on the victory of the proletariat in the Soviet Union 
>but also on
>the fact that the working class had taken state power in Germany in 1918.  
>Secondly,
>Hitler gave the big bourgeois complete control over the economy.  
>Historically
>speaking fascism attacks a retreating working class a kick 'em when their 
>down kind of
>thinking. R. Palm Dutt explains this in his book Fascism and Social 
>Revolution.  He
>uses the example of Italy, Austria and Germany to make a pretty convincing 
>case.  All
>three countries went fascist but only after the working class had  state 
>power within
>or in its grasp, only to be betrayed by its social democratic "leaders".
>      I think that it is a mistake to say that fascism is the "primacy of 
>politics over
>economics".  In fact, I think it would be the other way around.  Fascism is 
>the
>outright dictatorship of monopoly capital. Humanity becomes completly 
>subordinated to
>the needs of big capital.  The needs of capital in times of severe economic 
>crisis are
>most easily met through war;  the destruction of the productive forces as a 
>cure to
>the economic crisis which is one of overproduction. Nazism is the most 
>extreme form of
>barbarous capitalism because it includes not only war as a means of 
>destruction to
>solve the economic crisis but genocide as well.
>
>jmluceno@... wrote:
>
> > Jim,
> >
> > These are good points to bring up.
> >
> > So fascist rule in Germany was not supported by large industry at
> > all?  That's an interesting point that I was unaware of.  I was
> > probably thinking in terms of the coup in France, which I know more
> > about than the Nazi ascension to power.
> >
> > I believe I am right in saying that the Nazis appealed to the values
> > of the small bourgeoisie and agriculture.  The actual historical
> > situation may be more nuanced, but is that generally the case?
> >
> > Something I did forget to elaborate on was the difference between the
> > socialist movements at the time and the Nazi movement.  I only touched
> > on some ideological differences.  What specifically was the labor
> > movement's relationship to the Nazis?
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, jagross@e... wrote:
> > >
> > > I restrained myself from quoting the whole message.  Let me just
> > > respond to one point that I think is important ...
> > >
> > >
> > > > make no mistake: while the fascist leader pays such lip service to
> > > > these classes, he is *actually* supported, the entire time, by the
> > > > most powerful industrialists.  The gran bourgeoisie, not the
> > petite
> > > > bourgeoisie, are the ones who abandon liberal democracy and bring
> > in
> > > > a Strongman to restore law and order against the proletariat.
> > (For
> > > > more on this aspect of fascism, see Karl Marx, 18th Brumaire of
> > > Louis
> > > > Bonaparte, or Barrington Moore, Social Origins of Dictatorship and
> > > > Democracy).
> > >
> > > Okay, the problem here is differentiating between 1) The
> > relationship
> > > between capitalism and fascism at the time of the _creation_ of a
> > > dictatorship ... versus 2) The relationship between capitalism and
> > > fascism after the dictatorship has been fully established.  In other
> > > words, do _capitalists_ intend a dictatorship (1) or do they (2)
> > > merely adapt opportunistically to the dictatorship once it is
> > > established?
> > >
> > > Historically, capitalism adapted comfortably and happily to
> > Fascism.
> > > But fascism was never intended by the 'big bourgeoisie'.  Especially
> > > in Germany.  I'll briefly list the following articles of proof with
> > > respect to the Nazis:
> > >
> > > 1)  The power to appoint the Chancellor (in 1933) stood with a tiny
> > > clique of isolated individuals surrounding the aging President
> > > Hindenberg.  These included a few trusted old military figures and
> > > Hindenberg's son.  Hitler's ascension to power was indeed determined
> > > by very contingent political factors, by human choices.  A military
> > > dictatorship was all but fated; a Nazi dictatorship was not.  The
> > > last Chancellor before Hitler, Kurt von Schleicher, could have
> > rather
> > > easily lead a military coup, and there might have never been a Nazi
> > > dictatorship.  In fact, he seriously considered doing so.
> > >
> > > 2)  The 'big bourgeoisie' mostly opposed the Nazis, at worst
> > > supporting the more authoritarian of the basically liberal (if not
> > > fully democratic) parties.  THIS is an important point:  there may
> > > have been an element of elitism on the part of many industrialists.
> > > But this elitism, paradoxically, looked down upon the Antisemitism
> > of
> > > the Fascists as vulgar, ugly and stupid.  It may have even been
> > > viewed as a phenomenon of 'mob rule'.
> > >
> > > 3)  Many of the industrialists were at the head of industries that
> > > benefitted from free trade policies.  The Nazis were shrill in their
> > > condemnation of 'free trade'.
> > >
> > > 4)  Exceedingly detailed research has been done on how the Nazi
> > party
> > > was funded.  All records point to a mass-based funding model much
> > > like the Communists and Social Democrats, with greater reliance on
> > > money collected from party rallies (which were much more spectacular
> > > than those of the SPD or CP).  Industrialists contributed almost
> > > nothing; when they contributed at all, it was very late in the game,
> > > and only as a kind of desperate bribe.  Only one steel magnate, a
> > man
> > > by the name of Fritz Thyssen, openly supported and contributed to
> > the
> > > Nazis.  In 1934, he recanted and fled the country.
> > >
> > > There is only one argument that would seem at all logical.  It's a
> > > bit roundabout.
> > >
> > > Industrialists during the Weimar period did _not_ contribute to the
> > > Nazis, generally, nor support them.  They _did_, however, contribute
> > > to the liberal parties, the left-liberal DDP and the right-liberal
> > > DVP, in particular.  In the late 20's, they began to cut back their
> > > funding, because they found that they were entirely unable to
> > > influence the nation's economic policy through their support of, and
> > > contributions to, these parties.  This helped lead to the collapse
> > of
> > > the centrist parties, and thereby the parties that frequently
> > aligned
> > > with the SPD to neutralize the Nazis. It also led to the effective
> > > collapse of parliamentary rule.  But this hardly amounts to saying
> > > that the bourgeoisie wanted fascism.
> > >
> > > Otherwise, yes, the bourgeoisie adapted to Fascism just fine.  But
> > > Fascism is primarily political; it means the primacy of politics
> > over
> > > economics, not the other way around.
> > >
> > > Bye,
> > >
> > > Jeremy
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:951
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-08 16:48:03
Subject:Fwd: photos from WBAI rally yesterday
Message:

Hey folks- If you want a glimpse at the WBAI-99.5FM struggle & Rally last 
Saturday to re-democratize this critical community suported outlet, check 
out this website put up by Nat Bender, son of labor singers Bob and Patty 
Bender.  Also, the Amy Goodman, host of WBAI's 'Democracy Now!' will be the 
Guest Speaker at a Teach-In at NYU sponsored by the Women's International 
League for Peace and Freedom.

*********************************************************************

"The Pacifica Boards Attacks Against WBAI's Listener-Sponsored Radio"

Saturday, January 27, 2001 from 1pm-4pm @ NYU's Main Building, Rm 714
Corner of Waverly and Washington Square Park, Enter @ Waverly Door and take 
North Elevator to the 7th Flr.  FMI:(212) 533-3470

Let me know if your interested in attending this event. Matthew


>From: "Nat Bender" <nat@...>
>To: <rbender@...>, <Djbender@...>, "buell" <buell@...>,    
>     <vivaohio@...>, <bobl@...>
>Subject: photos from WBAI rally yesterday
>Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 18:58:04 -0800
>
>online at http://www.revolutionarywebdesign.com/wbai .
>
>Solidarity!
>Nat T. Bender
>Minister of Information
>www.RevolutionaryWebDesign.com
>908/241-8560

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:952
Sender:jagross@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-08 19:23:09
Subject:Re: Fascism vs. Communism
Message:

Hello again ...

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@h...> 
wrote:
> for further information on Hitler financing, check out "Ford and 
the Fuhrer: 
> new documents reveal the close ties between Dearborn and the 
Nazis", by Ken 
> Silverstein (The Nation, 1/24/00). It's a detailed expose of the 
intimate 
> relationship between Henry Ford and the German Nazi Party.
> 
> Silverstein writes:
> 
> "Ford Motor set up shop in Germany in 1925, when it opened an 
office in 
> Berlin. Six years later, it built a large plant in Cologne, which 
became its 
> headquarters in the country. Ford of Germany prospered during the 
Nazi 
> years, especially with the economic boom brought on by WWII. Sales 
increased 
> by more than half between 1938 and 1943, and, according to a US 
Government 
> report found at the National Archives, the value of the German 
subsidiary 
> more than doubled during the course of the war... Ford eagerly 
collaborated 
> with the Nazis, which enhanced its business prospects and at the 
same time 
> helped Hitler prepare for war ..."
> 
> this certainly provides an interesting exception to Jeremy's thesis 
that the 
> capitalists got down with the Nazis only after they came to power. 
in H. 
> Ford's case, we can see that the fool was a big subscriber of nazi 
ideology, 
> which sparked his support of Hitler right off the bat. certainly, 
not all 
> companies were the same, but we can't forget that the power of 
ideological 
> agreement.

Again, I said that most of the big German capitalists did not support 
the Nazis; hence I argued that it's impossible to claim that Nazism 
was an _expression of capitalism_ or an expression of _the will of 
capitalists_.  

First, what's more important here is the degree to which 
the 'national bourgeoisie' supported the Nazis.  But that aside, 
though there were quite a number of people such as Ford, capitalists 
in Germany and abroad who supported the Nazis politically or 
economically, they still didn't make a decisive difference as to 
whether or not the Nazis seized power in Germany.

Certainly, the Ford case doesn't prove that Fascism or Nazism were 
inherently Capitalist ideologies / movements.  That's my point here.

> an important extrapolation from the Ford/Fuhrer connection  is the 
> relationship between US Ford and the American labor movement. There 
were 
> vicious strikes in Detroit before the UAW secured a stronghold at 
Ford, 
> during which many stormtrooper-esque goons were unleashed on man, 
woman, and 
> child alike to beat their brains in for supporting the union. Ford 
did much 
> to inspire the proliferation of Cold War ideology in the US, and to 
redbait 
> militant unionists. For more info, check out "the most dangerous 
man in 
> Detroit:Walter Reuther and the UAW".

It'd be interesting to see if Ford was really and truly inspired by 
the Nazis' paramilitary squads in his company's strikebreaking 
methods.  I'd guess that he would have stated this openly somewhere 
if it is indeed the case.

TTYL,

Jeremy








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:953
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-09 13:56:17
Subject:MUNICIPAL MEETINGS
Message:

As Campaign General Counsel, and as a member of its Research unit, I 
am coordinating volunteers to attend various municipal meetings 
coming up over the next three months.  Most of these meetings are 
relatively short.

This important job, by which the Campaign keeps tabs on city 
activities and gains visibility with community members, entails 
promptly arriving at the meetings, picking up the agenda, taking 
notes on what is said and done, introducing yourself to members of 
the body in question and/or its staffers, and possibly speaking (if 
an issue of interest to the Campaign comes up).

If you can do this, or know someone who can, please contact me at the 
following email address, replacing (dot) with a . and replacing (at) 
with an @ :

flavio(dot)komuves(at)att(dot)net

Also, please circulate this email widely to others who may be 
interested in attending.  The meetings that need to be attended 
follow.  Before attending a meeting, it may be wise to call the 
appropriate office (e.g. City Clerk, Board Secretary, etc.) to ensure 
it is still going on as scheduled.

CITY COUNCIL
City Hall, 78 Bayard Street

Regular Meetings
7 pm, January 17
7 pm, February 7
7 pm, February 21
7 pm, March 7
7 pm, March 21

Agenda Meetings
5 pm, January 11
5 pm, February 5
5 pm, February 15
5 pm, March 5
5 pm, March 19

PLANNING BOARD
7:30 PM, City Hall, 78 Bayard Street
January 10, February 14, March 14

ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT
7:30 PM, City Hall, 78 Bayard Street
January 22, February 5, March 26

RENT LEVELING BOARD
7 PM, City Hall, 78 Bayard Street
January 9, January 23, February 13, February 27, March 13, March 27

ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION
7:00 PM, Public Library, Livingston Avenue
January 25, February 22, March 28

TRAFFIC COMMISSION
2:00 PM, City Hall, 78 Bayard Street
February 1, March 7

BOARD OF EDUCATION
7:00 PM, New Brunswick High School,
1125 Livingston Avenue
January 16, February 20, March 20

CHARTER SCHOOL BOARD
School Auditorium
115 Livingston Avenue
January 9, February 13, March 13

HOUSING AUTHORITY
6:45 PM, 176 Memorial Homes
January 26, February 23, March 24

LIBRARY BOARD OF TRUSTEES
5:00 PM, Public Library, Livingston Avenue
January 24, February 28, March 28


Thank you for your anticipated help!

Flavio L. Komuves
General Counsel
New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign
P.O. Box 131
New Brunswick, NJ 08903

Buchanan Ingersoll, P.C.
650 College Road East, 4th Floor
Princeton, NJ 08540
609/987-6854











-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:954
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-09 14:03:25
Subject:MUNICIPAL MEETINGS -SORTED BY DATE
Message:

FYI, Here is the same list of meetings, sorted by date.  Again, 
please attend!

Flavio



CHARTER SCHOOL BOARD	January 9	TBD	School Auditorium, 
115 Livingston Avenue
RENT LEVELING BOARD	January 9	7 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
PLANNING BOARD	January 10	7:30 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard Street
CITY COUNCIL (Agenda)	January 11	5 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
CITY COUNCIL (Agenda)	January 15	5 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
BOARD OF EDUCATION	January 16	7 PM	N.B. High School, 
1125 Livingston Avenue
CITY COUNCIL (Regular)	January 17	7 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
ZONING BOARD	January 22	7:30 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard Street
RENT LEVELING BOARD	January 23	7 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
LIBRARY BD. OF TRUSTEES	January 24	5 PM	Public Library, 
Livingston Avenue
ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION	January 25	7 PM	Public 
Library, Livingston Ave.
HOUSING AUTHORITY	January 26	6:45 PM	176 Memorial Homes
TRAFFIC COMMISSION	February 1	2 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
CITY COUNCIL (Agenda)	February 5	5 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
ZONING BOARD	February 5	7:30 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard Street
CITY COUNCIL (Regular)	February 7	7 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
CHARTER SCHOOL BOARD	February 13	TBD	School Auditorium, 
115 Livingston Avenue
RENT LEVELING BOARD	February 13	7 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
PLANNING BOARD	February 14	7:30 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard Street
BOARD OF EDUCATION	February 20	7 PM	N.B. High School, 
1125 Livingston Avenue
CITY COUNCIL (Regular)	February 21	7 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION	February 22	7 PM	Public 
Library, Livingston Ave.
HOUSING AUTHORITY
	February 23	6:45 PM	176 Memorial Homes
RENT LEVELING BOARD	February 27	7 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
LIBRARY BD. OF TRUSTEES	February 28	5 PM	Public Library, 
Livingston Avenue
CITY COUNCIL (Agenda)	March 5	5 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard Street
CITY COUNCIL (Regular)	March 7	7 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard Street
TRAFFIC COMMISSION	March 7	2 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard Street
CHARTER SCHOOL BOARD	March 13	TBD	School Auditorium, 
115 Livingston Avenue
RENT LEVELING BOARD	March 13	7 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
PLANNING BOARD	March 14	7:30 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard Street
CITY COUNCIL (Agenda)	March 15	5 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
BOARD OF EDUCATION	March 20	7 PM	N.B. High School, 
1125 Livingston Avenue
CITY COUNCIL (Regular)	March 21	7 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
HOUSING AUTHORITY
	March 24	6:45 PM	176 Memorial Homes
ZONING BOARD	March 26	7:30 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard Street
RENT LEVELING BOARD	March 27	7 PM	City Hall, 78 Bayard 
Street
ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION	March 28	7 PM	Public 
Library, Livingston Ave.
LIBRARY BD. OF TRUSTEES	March 28	5 PM	Public Library, 
Livingston Avenue








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:955
Sender:jagross@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-10 21:20:19
Subject:Ashcroft and Torricelli
Message:

Hello,

Many of you are probably aware that Senator Torricelli has, in recent 
weeks, openly proclaimed his support for John Ashcroft.  He has 
recently modified this, stating that he will support Ashcroft so long 
as he openly proclaims a willingness to fight racial profiling.  The 
NY Times and others have speculated that this stems from a number of 
highly opportunistic political considerations on Torricelli's part, 
including, I think, worries that he may be investigated on matters of 
fundraising.

In any case, Torricelli has a web-based email forum 
http://www.senate.gov/~torricelli/

Also, check out People for the American Way at:
www.pfaw.org (it might be .com, but I think it's .org)

Jeremy








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:956
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-11 09:45:24
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Ashcroft and Torricelli
Message:

That makes sense since Torricelli was a champion fundraiser in the last four 
years.


>From: jagross@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Ashcroft and Torricelli
>Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:20:19 -0000
>
>
>Hello,
>
>Many of you are probably aware that Senator Torricelli has, in recent
>weeks, openly proclaimed his support for John Ashcroft.  He has
>recently modified this, stating that he will support Ashcroft so long
>as he openly proclaims a willingness to fight racial profiling.  The
>NY Times and others have speculated that this stems from a number of
>highly opportunistic political considerations on Torricelli's part,
>including, I think, worries that he may be investigated on matters of
>fundraising.
>
>In any case, Torricelli has a web-based email forum
>http://www.senate.gov/~torricelli/
>
>Also, check out People for the American Way at:
>www.pfaw.org (it might be .com, but I think it's .org)
>
>Jeremy
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:957
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-11 12:44:20
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Ashcroft and Torricelli
Message:

I just filled out a funny contact form on torricelli's web site. it thanked 
me for expressing my views after i pressed "submit". hah!


>From: jagross@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Ashcroft and Torricelli
>Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:20:19 -0000
>
>
>Hello,
>
>Many of you are probably aware that Senator Torricelli has, in recent
>weeks, openly proclaimed his support for John Ashcroft.  He has
>recently modified this, stating that he will support Ashcroft so long
>as he openly proclaims a willingness to fight racial profiling.  The
>NY Times and others have speculated that this stems from a number of
>highly opportunistic political considerations on Torricelli's part,
>including, I think, worries that he may be investigated on matters of
>fundraising.
>
>In any case, Torricelli has a web-based email forum
>http://www.senate.gov/~torricelli/
>
>Also, check out People for the American Way at:
>www.pfaw.org (it might be .com, but I think it's .org)
>
>Jeremy
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:958
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-14 10:49:47
Subject:Fwd: Oppose John Ashcroft Nomination
Message:



>From: "Kubran, Judith" <JKubran@...>
>Subject: Oppose John Ashcroft Nomination
>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:07:43 -0500
>
>
>[mailto:ricardo@...]
>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 4:40 PM
>
>Dear Friend,
>
>I thought you might be interested in
>this DRCNet Rapid Response Team e-
>activism campaign.  If you go to the
>URL below you can check out what is at
>stake and send your own message
>directly to the relevant decision
>makers.
>
>Take action on this alert from DRCNet Rapid Response Team at:
>http://GetActiveHub.com/campaign/stopja1
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Oppose John Ashcroft for Attorney General
>
>We are opposing the John Ashcroft nomination because
>of his record as one of the worst drug warriors in
>the Senate.
>
>
>
>
>***********************************************
>Powered by LocusPocus, Inc.
>Enabling Organizations To Achieve Their Mission
>http://www.locuspocus.com
>***********************************************
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:959
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-15 20:03:09
Subject:Fwd: Think Tank Frankensteins: Bush's Rainbow Cabinet by R Lederman
Message:



>From: ARTISTpres@...
>To: undisclosed-recipients:;
>Subject: Think Tank Frankensteins: Bush's Rainbow Cabinet by R Lederman
>Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:03:50 EST
>
>Think Tank Frankensteins: GW Bush's Rainbow Cabinet
>by Robert Lederman
>
>Frankenstein: (noun) A monster created from incongruous parts.
>
>The media keeps telling us that GW Bush's racially, ethnically
>and gender diverse cabinet proves he is not a bigot. Nothing
>could be further from the truth.
>
>The conservative foundations behind GW's appointees - the
>Heritage Foundation, The Federalist Society, the John M. Olin
>Foundation, the Sarah Scaife Foundation, the Manhattan
>Institute and the Bradley Foundation - have created these think
>tank Frankensteins for a sinister purpose.
>
>African Americans who quote Charles Murray - a eugenicist who
>believes Blacks are genetically inferior; Latinos who oppose the
>minimum wage and believe Spanish should not be spoken in
>America; a Jewish press secretary for a President whose family
>bankrolled Hitler - it is damage control not diversity that
>accounts for these men and women rising to prominence.
>
>The corporate foundations that sponsored these appointees and
>in many cases created their reputations are believers in white
>supremacy and eugenics. Their long range plans for America's
>people of color and for the populations of Third World nations
>could more appropriately be titled "The Final Solution" than
>"Compassionate Conservatism".
>
>These same foundations have insidiously penetrated every aspect
>of American political life. Under the guise of  philanthropy they
>now financially sponsor virtually all the television shows on PBS
>dealing with political, religious or educational issues, dominate
>talk radio and supply the vast majority of the "experts" on
>network news programs or quoted in mainstream newspapers.
>
>Scientific Racism
>An ideological blitzkrieg is being waged with social scientists
>bankrolled by corporations with a eugenics viewpoint as
>front-line troops. Unlike the KKK or other openly racist groups,
>the organizations backing Bush and his appointees are made up
>of educated people who sponsor seminars and publish scholarly
>books rather than burning crosses. That's why eugenics is called,
>scientific racism.
>
>Behind the foundations that financed the research and the
>widespread - often free - distribution of these social scientists'
>books you will find white supremacists, defense contractors,
>pharmaceutical companies with ties to IG Farben, former Nazis
>and advocates for depopulating much of the world. Their
>obsession with birthrates and IQ scores among people of color is
>tied to ideas about national security and so-called
>anti-communism. For three generations the Bush family has been
>centrally involved in these efforts. [See Bush, Abortion and
>Racial Eugenics  http://Baltech.org/lederman/spray/  ]
>
>Many of these think tanks and foundations have close ties to the
>CIA and defense contractors. That the extreme right in America
>claims to be based on the teachings of Jesus and the Bible is
>nothing new; the 19th century defenders of slavery made the
>exact same claims. To understand the Bush administration it is
>the Bell Curve, not the Bible, that you need to look at.
>
>The Bell Curve and GW Bush
>The works of Charles Murray, author of The Bell Curve and
>Losing Ground, are held up by many of Bush's staff and advisors
>as key texts justifying their agenda of privatizing schools,
>eliminating welfare and turning social programs over to
>faith-based charities. From Murray we can trace a common theme
>running throughout the entire GW Bush administration.
>
>Being in favor of school vouchers and eliminating welfare or
>being against affirmative action does not in itself make somebody
>a racist - but if someone is sponsored by racists, associates with
>racists and writes approvingly of racists then one's advocacy on
>these issues should be interpreted in that light.
>
>Here is what Scientific American had to say about Murray's The
>Bell Curve:      http://www.kwaku.org/rm/sciam2.htm
>SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN January 1995 Volume 272 Number 1
>Page 14   For Whom the Bell Curve Really Tolls:
>A tendentious tome abuses science to promote far-right policies-
>"The arguments stem from the same tradition of biological
>determinism that led, not so long ago, to compulsory
>sterilizations in the U.S. and genocide elsewhere. The notion is
>that individuals' characteristics are both essentially fixed by
>inheritance and immune to alteration by the environment. Efforts
>to help those who are unfortunate by reason of their genes are
>unlikely to be rewarded. Solutions, therefore, should include
>those Murray has long advocated: abolish welfare, reduce
>affirmative action and simplify criminal law."
>
>Among the many Bush cabinet appointees and advisors
>associated with Murray's ideas are Stephen Goldsmith, Tommy
>Thompson, Elaine Chou, Myron Magnet, Marvin Olasky, Linda
>Chavez, Karl Rove, Floyd Flake, Spencer Abraham and various
>members of the Bush family - including former President Bush.
>
>The CIA Connection to Scientific Racism
>Charles Murray wrote The Bell Curve during eight years as a
>research fellow at The Manhattan Institute, a think tank founded
>by Reagan's CIA director William Casey. After WWII Casey and
>other US officials who had business ties with the Third Reich
>helped bring thousands of former Nazis to the U.S. - supposedly
>to fight communism but in reality to help firmly establish
>corporate fascism - which they have been very successful at.
>
>These were not just the atom bomb scientists most people are
>familiar with but specialists in eugenics, propaganda, using
>pharmaceuticals for social control and research on genetics -
>much of which was done in Nazi concentration camps. Many of
>these men also had extensive experience in rounding up Jews,
>Slavs and other ethnic minorities to be exterminated.
>
>These former Nazis became a core group within the
>newly-formed CIA and many of them later became key aides to
>the Republican Party and former President Bush [Philadelphia
>Inquirer 9/10/98 "Fired Bush backer one of several with possible
>Nazi  links," September 10, 1988; Washington Post Friday,
>September 16, 1988 ; Page A16 "Behind Scenes, Damage
>Control Has Become Vital Weapon for Bush"].
>
>The CIA's first director, Allen Dulles, was legal counsel for
>Standard Oil/IG Farben and worked closely with Prescott Bush,
>Averil Harriman and Rockefeller in helping to finance the Third
>Reich. Many of the corporations that sided with Hitler during
>WWII are well-represented in GW Bush's administration today.
>
>Funding for Charles Murray at the MI (Manhattan Institute)
>came primarily from the Pioneer Fund - the nation's #1 eugenics
>think tank, which is associated with Nazi Germany and three
>generations of the Bush family. A number of GW's election
>lawyers are associated with the fund and most of the
>"scholarship" quoted in the Bell Curve was also funded by the
>Pioneer Fund.
>
>MI is financed by Wall Street investment bankers and oil and
>pharmaceutical companies, many of which - like the
>Rockefellers' Chase Manhattan Bank - have direct historical ties
>to Nazi Germany, eugenics and IG Farben - which was half
>owned by Rockefeller. While MI's focus on race is evident from
>a visit to their website an even larger part of their efforts are
>related to the issues of population control and national security.
>
>Many of GW Bush's advisors are research fellows, directors or
>regular guest speakers at The Manhattan Institute including
>Myron Magnet, Stephen Goldsmith, Floyd Flake, Linda Chavez
>and Tommy Thompson - and frequently appear alongside their
>colleague, Charles Murray, in seminars on eliminating welfare.
>
>Sharing a similar origin with Bush's cabinet appointees, GW's
>"compassionate conservatism" was created by the
>CIA/Manhattan Institute's Myron Magnet and Marvin Olasky. In
>the intro to Olasky's latest book GW Bush calls him,
>"compassionate conservatism's leading thinker." After
>successively abandoning Judaism, atheism, membership in the
>Communist Party and sixties-style idealism, Olasky became a
>fundamentalist Christian. Like many in Bush's circle, Olasky
>now believes poverty is caused by a lack of moral values among
>the poor rather than by a built-in system of social inequality. The
>Redeemer, a church he founded in Austin Texas, teaches that
>women have no place in leadership. His theories on the poor
>were central to Newt Gingrich's Contract With America [Dallas
>Morning News, NY Times, UK Guardian, AP].
>
>On their website MI supports Jesse Helms, imprisoning low-level
>drug offenders, eliminating virtually all government regulations,
>censorship, opening wilderness areas to oil and gas drilling,
>turning over all social services to faith-based charities,
>privatizing prisons, hospitals, parks, streets and schools and
>school vouchers - in short the entire GW Bush political agenda.
>
>Americans who like the Victorian idea of charities rather than
>taxes providing a social safety net forget that before welfare,
>social security or Medicaid all social services in America were
>supplied by faith-based charities. While these groups did good
>work they were never up to the task of helping so many poor,
>disabled, sick and elderly people or millions of children who
>more often than not were left to fend for themselves or starve.
>
>Charles Murray was a consultant for Bush's Sec. of Health and
>Human Services, Tommy Thompson, and  is favorably quoted by
>Linda Chavez on her organizations' website - The Center for
>Equal Opportunity. Murray also sits on panel discussions about
>eliminating welfare with two African American conservatives
>almost picked for cabinet positions - Eloise Anderson and Floyd
>Flake. The websites of Anderson's organization, Claremont
>Institute, like that of Flake's Manhattan Institute, contain
>numerous laudatory quotes about Charles Murray.
>
>Linda Chavez was a research fellow at the CIA's Manhattan
>Institute during 1993 and 1994 receiving almost $200,000 in
>grants from the John M. Olin Foundation, a right-wing fund
>derived from a family business in munitions and chemicals with
>roots in white supremacy. If she hadn't been  unceremoniously
>dumped by Bush her anti-union, anti-affirmative action,
>anti-Spanish language and anti-minimum wage ideas would have
>created plenty of controversy on their own.
>
>Elaine Chao, Bush's Asian-American replacement for Chavez, is
>a fellow at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank
>with direct connections to former Nazis and white supremacists.
>After doing a search on the Heritage foundation's website I found
>almost 100 references to Charles Murray - all of them positive.
>Chao is also allegedly linked to China's President Jiang Zemin
>via longstanding business and family ties [source: Voice of
>America; WorldNetDaily.com].
>.> Bush Picks Chao for Labor Post (AP) 1/12/2001 "Chao is a
>fellow at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank."<
>
>Charles Murray is also a regular speaker for the Federalist
>Society - co-founded by Bush energy appointee Spencer
>Abraham - an ultraconservative legal advocacy group dedicated to
>eliminating affirmative action, welfare, bilingual education and
>the right to sue the government. Supreme Court Justices Scalia
>and Thomas (next to Colin Powell Thomas is America's highest
>ranking affirmative action recipient) are prominent members of
>the Federalist Society, which is funded by the John M. Olin
>Foundation, the Sarah Scaife Foundation and the Bradley
>Foundation - far right foundations linked to racism and eugenics.
>
>Stephen Goldsmith, a leading Manhattan Institute fellow, is GW
>Bush's top domestic policy advisor. Here's part of his
>introduction to a symposium on welfare at the Manhattan
>Institute in April 1999 featuring Charles Murray:
>
> > "Education and Welfare: Meeting the Challenge
>A Message from CCI Chairman, Mayor Stephen Goldsmith
>[CCI is a division of Manhattan Institute]
>America is in the midst of an urban renaissance...CCI’s April
>conference “Next Steps in Welfare Reform” highlighted just how
>far we’ve come. The conference brought together public officials
>like Wisconsin Governor Tommy Thompson and scholars like
>Dr. Charles Murray to discuss how governments and private
>groups have reduced dependency and increased
>self-sufficiency...Fifteen years after the Manhattan Institute
>published Charles Murray’s landmark study of American welfare
>policy, Losing Ground, the presentations showed that ideas once
>seen as radical now form the mainstream of the welfare debate."
>
>Among the panelists alongside Murray and Goldsmith was Jason
>Turner, former head of Wisconsin's welfare program. Turner later
>became infamous as head of NYC's abusive workfare system
>after quoting the motto over the gates of Auschwitz - "Arbeit
>Macht Frei - work shall make you free" [NY Times 6/27/98].
>
>The Bush family represent three generations of eugenics
>aristocracy. Their extensive political dynasty continues a family
>tradition begun in the 1930's when Prescott Bush and his
>corporate friends financed the Third Reich.
>
>No concentration camps will be needed this time around. Thanks
>to modern science - much of which is derived from Nazi
>Germany - vaccines, pesticides, chemtrails,
>genetically-engineered foods, DNA technology and new chemical
>methods of sterilization and birth control are all that will be
>required to carry out the population control goals of eugenics.
>
>What's really inclusive about the GW Bush administration's
>agenda? This time around a lot more people will be included on
>the list for elimination - or as corporate America prefers to call it
>- downsizing.
>
>LINKS TO INFORMATION IN THIS ARTICLE:
>  NY Times Monday, May 12, 1997 Manhattan Institute Has
>Nudged New York Rightward
>"...the institute was founded as a free-market education and
>research organization by William Casey, who then went off to
>head the Central Intelligence Agency in the Reagan
>Administration."
>
>NY Times  June 12, 2000 Bush Culls Campaign Theme From
>Conservative Thinkers “Gov. George W. Bush has said his
>political views have been shaped by the work of Myron Magnet
>of the Manhattan Institute.”
>
>From the MI website: Books That Influenced Gov. George W.
>Bush  Myron Magnet's The Dream and the Nightmare: "Referring
>to this book, Gov. Bush has said, other than the Bible, that it was
>the most important book he had read..."
>
>The Bell Curve and the Pioneer Fund
>http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45/049.html
>http://www.fair.org/extra/9501/bell.html
>http://www.marmoset.com/60minute/Webnav/eugen.html
>
>The Heritage Foundation
>http://www.corporations.org/coors/
>http://alant.purespace.de/anti.html
>http://www.watch.pair.com/heritage.html
>
>Corporate America's Nazi connection
>http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/Binion122100/
>binion122100.html
>http://www.capnasty.org/taf/issue7/elkhorn1.htm
>
>To access thousands of web sites with detailed information on
>the Bush/Nazi connection go to a good search engine such as>
>http://www.google.com/  and type in Bush AND Nazi.
>
>Bush financial misconduct
>http://www.motherjones.com/news_wire/bushboys.html
>Who funded GW Bush?
>http://www.tylwythteg.com/enemies/Bush/bush17.html
>
>FAIR on John Ashcroft and race
>http://www.fair.org/press-releases/southern-partisan.html
>
>Robert Lederman, President of A.R.T.I.S.T.
>(Artists’ Response To Illegal State Tactics)
>ARTISTpres@...  (718) 743-3722
>Bush, Eugenics, Giuliani, Manhattan Institute info
>http://Baltech.org/lederman/spray/
>Street artist info
>http://www.openair.org/alerts/artist/nyc.html
>
>FEEL FREE TO REPOST, PRINT OUT AND DISTRIBUTE
>WIDELY!
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:960
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-16 10:52:25
Subject:G.W. and his golf swing
Message:

>QUOTE OF THE DAY
>=========================
>
>"I went out to play golf, and it just didn't dawn on me that
>when I came to the hole on the road, there would be 300
>people there. And it affected my swing, I want you to know."
>
>- GEORGE W. BUSH,
>
January 14, 2001
In His First Days, Bush Plans Review of Clinton's Acts
By DAVID E. SANGER and FRANK BRUNI


RAWFORD, Tex., Jan. 12 � President-elect George W. Bush said today that he 
planned to review and possibly roll back some of the most ambitious 
initiatives that President Clinton has taken in recent days, including 
regulations that put nearly 60 million acres of the nation's forests off 
limits to development.

"I understand the Western mentality, and I want the Western mentality 
represented in this administration," Mr. Bush said of his own land use 
policies. In an interview, he emphasized that "we've got lawyers looking at 
every single issue, every single opportunity" to reverse actions Mr. Clinton 
has taken in the waning weeks of his presidency.

He also described what could well become a new, tougher approach toward 
Russia, limiting aid for its conversion to a market economy, and he 
elaborated on several other foreign policy issues. Previewing one of the 
most closely watched decisions he will face in his first month in office, he 
signaled that he was inclined to use an executive order to stop the flow of 
American money to any international organizations that provide abortions in 
foreign countries.

"Organizations that promote abortions are organizations I don't want to 
support" with American taxpayer dollars, Mr. Bush said.

Mr. Bush's remarks came in a 75-minute interview in his renovated farmhouse 
here, followed by less formal conversation during a 90-minute tour of his 
ranch and a hike up a limestone canyon to his favorite waterfall.

Along the way � stopping at moments to admire the middle fork of the Bosque 
River rushing through his land or to point out a buzzard � the man who will 
become the 43rd president of the United States on Saturday also talked about 
his legislative priorities, his Inaugural Address and the diplomatic 
troubles he anticipates with Moscow and Beijing over his plans to deploy a 
national missile defense system.

Mr. Bush was dismissive of the Clinton administration's eight-year-long use 
of direct financial aid to Russia, part of a broad Western effort to coax 
the country toward a market economy. He suggested he would try to stop the 
money � except for that used to dismantle nuclear weapons � until Vladimir 
V. Putin, the Russian president, cleaned up corruption and enacted 
far-reaching economic and legal reforms.

"It's hard for America to fashion Russia," Mr. Bush said. "It just seems 
like to me that we don't want to be lending money and/or encourage the 
lending of money into a system in which the intention of the capital is 
never fulfilled," he said. "The intent of the capital was to encourage 
entrepreneurship and growth and markets."

According to the General Accounting Office, the United States has spent 
roughly $2.3 billion since 1992 promoting democracy, the rule of law and 
market reforms in Russia, but the annual disbursements have tailed off 
steeply since the Russian financial crisis of 1998. The International 
Monetary Fund and the World Bank, institutions in which the United States is 
the largest single shareholder, have issued loans to Russia over the same 
period worth approximately $30 billion.

Taken together, Mr. Bush's comments amounted to a sketchy road map for his 
first 100 days in office. By making it clear that he would rigorously review 
Mr. Clinton's environmental orders and suggesting he might reverse the 
Clinton administration's position on aid to family planning groups working 
overseas, he was embracing some favorite causes of his conservative base, 
especially the Western states he called "that big swath of red on the map" � 
a region of contiguous states he swept as he took the presidency in the 
narrowest of victories.

In the case of reversing President Clinton's forest policy, which was made 
final this month, after years of painstaking review and public comment, Mr. 
Bush would face many legal restraints. He acknowledged that his lawyers 
would have to look carefully at what options were open.

His comments on Russia, if converted into policy, could lead to a 
fundamental change in the way the United States seeks to influence the 
behavior of a nation that was once its chief superpower rival � and it risks 
heightening suspicions in Russia of how America is leveraging its economic 
and military power.

In the interview, Mr. Bush also made the following points:

�He said his Inaugural Address, which he hopes to keep to a short 12 
minutes, would carry the message that "we can be a unified America." But he 
insisted that this theme was not the product of his slim victory in the 
Electoral College and loss in the popular vote.

�Mr. Bush said he planned to quickly introduce his plan to cut taxes by an 
amount now estimated at $1.6 trillion over the next 10 years as a single 
bill, perhaps modifying it to deepen the tax cuts in the next few years so 
that it could spur a slowing economy. Asked if he was willing to negotiate 
the size of his proposed tax cut with a sharply divided Congress, he shot 
back: "The answer is no. I think it's the right number."

�He suggested he might be willing to pick up on Mr. Clinton's framework for 
a deal with North Korea to control its production and export of missiles but 
said it must include provisions to "verify that they are upholding their end 
of the agreement." If North Korea no longer threatens its neighbors, he 
said, he would "take a look" at reducing American troops on the Korean 
Peninsula, but only in consultation with South Korea and other Asian allies.

�Mr. Bush acknowledged that the economic sanctions imposed on Iraq since the 
Persian Gulf war have so collapsed that "they resemble Swiss cheese." But 
while he was critical of Mr. Clinton's handling of Iraq, he declined to say 
what tools he might use to pressure Saddam Hussein.

�Mr. Bush said he may have erred in commenting on the Federal Reserve's 
action early this month to cut interest rates, and suggested that to 
preserve the Fed's independence he would not publicly evaluate its actions 
as president. "I kind of read the feedback and tended to agree with it, 
frankly," he said of the criticism he received for enthusiastically backing 
the half-point cut in short-term rates.

From Ranch to Frying Pan

Throughout the conversation Mr. Bush looked relaxed. He was clearly enjoying 
a day off puttering around his ranch, brewing coffee for visitors and 
interrupting the conversation repeatedly to admonish his two friendly but 
occasionally disobedient dogs, Spot and Barney. But he leaned forward and 
turned intent when the subject turned to his choice for attorney general, 
former Senator John Ashcroft, a religious conservative who he said he knew 
"could end up being a lightning rod" for criticism.

He said he expected that Mr. Ashcroft's confirmation hearings, which begin 
on Tuesday, would be focused on the designee's comments on civil rights, his 
fierce opposition to abortion and comments he made supporting leaders of the 
Southern side of the Civil War. "They are going to dig up every word the guy 
uttered," Mr. Bush said. "He's going to get to explain them. He explained 
many of the words he uttered to me."

The president-elect professed to be unfazed by the withdrawal this week of 
his choice for labor secretary, Linda Chavez, who had failed to tell the 
Bush transition team that she had once had an illegal immigrant live in her 
home and perform occasional house chores. Mr. Bush would not say that he had 
been misled by Ms. Chavez, but noted, "She said she made mistakes," and he 
seemed to agree with that assessment.

Mr. Bush described his cabinet as "a very strong group of folks," made 
stronger by their extensive experience in government.

"I'm always mindful of what Sam Rayburn told Lyndon Johnson when he first 
saw the Kennedy administration," he said, referring to the famously gruff 
former speaker of the House. "He said, `Gosh, I just wish one of them had 
run for sheriff.' " And that's why I'm very comfortable with an Ashcroft or 
a Norton. They not only ran for sheriff, they ran for statewide offices."

Talking like a professor of management at Harvard Business School � which he 
attended decades ago � he said he was working hard to turn his cabinet 
choices into a cohesive team that is accustomed to his own style. In his two 
visits to Washington in recent weeks, he noted, he was "spending time with 
the folks, just watching everybody interact and letting them see how I 
respond and my style. I want them to see the decision-making process and how 
it works." He wanted, he insisted, no yes-men or yes-women.

"Here's loyalty," he said. "Loyalty is somebody who walked into my office 
and says, `Here is my opinion,' or `I hear you are thinking this way. I 
don't agree with you.' " He made it clear, however, that once he had chosen 
his path, he expected his cabinet members to voice unanimous support for his 
decisions in public.

At one point Mr. Bush said that he had cautioned his press secretary, Ari 
Fleischer, that at times he would withhold information so that Mr. Fleischer 
could truthfully profess ignorance to reporters � hardly a new strategy for 
occupants of the White House. Mr. Bush recalled telling Mr. Fleischer 
recently, "When I tell you you are not going to know something, you say, 
`Yes, sir.' "

`I Love Land'

Mr. Bush made little effort to hide his interest in reversing some of Mr. 
Clinton's recent executive orders and rules. But he cautioned that his aides 
were still researching whether reversals would be legally or politically 
possible, noting at one point that some of his actions would require 
legislation and "it doesn't take much to block action in the United States 
Senate," where there are now 50 Republicans and 50 Democrats.

Mr. Bush's views on the administration's recently completed effort to block 
the development of roadless areas of federal lands, essentially putting 
those areas off limits to loggers and oil drillers, was complex. Mr. Bush 
himself clearly treasures his natural surroundings � "I love land," he said 
while driving around the 1,600 acres he acquired in 1999 � but he 
instinctively bridles at the thought that the federal government would trump 
local officials or private landholders in deciding how that land should be 
used.

"What I would seek to do is to make sure that our bureaucracies were not 
trampling the interest of the people � and the president himself would work 
with local stakeholders before takings � such as what the president has done 
with the roadless areas, for example." The word "takings" is used to 
describe government action to limit the use of land, with minimal or no 
compensation.

"The concept of the federal government taking people's property without 
compensation is something I agree with Gale Norton on," he said. "It should 
not. There ought to be a balance between obviously the public interest and 
private property. And a lot of people in my state and in the Western states 
feel that balance is not there."

He reiterated his determination to drill for oil in the Arctic National 
Wildlife Refuge and said: "People shouldn't be shocked that I'm picking 
somebody who agrees with me. That's what a president does."

But he stopped short of saying that he would reverse the forest policy 
wholesale, suggesting he would consult with "governors and senators and 
local folks" to determine which lands should remain off limits and which 
should be developed. "There's going to be some property in these giant 
chunks of land that we can use and not damage the environment," he said. 
"There are some in this country that have wanted zero exploration or zero 
activity. And I just don't think it's in our national interest to take that 
approach."

He was more definitive about his opposition to federal aid for family 
planning groups that promote or perform abortions abroad. One of Mr. 
Clinton's very first acts, two days into his presidency in 1993, was to sign 
an executive order scuttling a Reagan-era policy that prohibited these 
private organizations from receiving public funds.

Under a compromise reached in October to avoid a confrontation between 
Congressional Republicans and Mr. Clinton, Congress allocated $425 million 
for such family planning activities � but said it could not be spent until 
Feb. 15. That clears the way for Mr. Bush to return to the Reagan policy, 
and while he said that he had not yet thoroughly reviewed the matter, he 
suggested he was inclined to head in that direction.

He also gave a sense of his other priorities, suggesting that in addition to 
education reform legislation and his tax bill, "we may be able to move a 
little faster on Medicare" reforms, including prescription drug coverage for 
elderly Americans. But he tacitly conceded that an overhaul of Social 
Security, a major subject of debate in the campaign, would take time.

Looking Abroad

In discussing foreign policy, Mr. Bush again said he would not allow 
American military forces to engage in what he called "nation-building" � 
converting countries to stable democracies � because it was a distraction 
from their main mission. That was a critical difference with Vice President 
Al Gore, who repeatedly cited the experience of American forces in helping 
remake Japan and Germany after World War II.

He said allies in Europe were "very aware" of his desire to gradually reduce 
America's presence in Kosovo and Bosnia, and said Secretary of 
State-designate Colin L. Powell would make it clear that Washington wanted 
Europe "to be the peacekeepers." (In fact, the United States provides less 
than 20 percent of the peacekeeping forces in the Balkans.) But, Mr. Bush 
said, "I don't have deadlines in mind" and "I honor the agreements that the 
president has � that our country has made."

"It's going to take a while" to pull back, he said.

He endorsed much of Mr. Clinton's core strategy toward China, using economic 
engagement to promote more freedom, but he seemed unable to decide whether 
China posed more of a threat to the United States because of its growing 
military strength or its internal weaknesses.

"I'm trying to figure out if your question is a trick question," he said 
with a smile. After a digression on the chaos brought about by the Cultural 
Revolution, he concluded, "To me, particularly as China develops as the 
military power, a chaotic China would be something that should cause great 
concern to people in the region and to us."

He said he was prepared for objections from Moscow and Beijing to his plan 
to build a national missile defense, but he insisted it should not be seen 
by either capital as a threat.

"We've just got to explain why we are doing what we are doing," he said. 
"The Chinese know and the Russians know that there will be no system 
developed in the immediate future or the foreseeable future, is a better 
word, that can conceivably intercept a multiple launch" of missiles at the 
United States.

"You know that. They know that," he said. His real intent, he said, was to 
intercept an accidental launching of one or two nuclear weapons, or to 
deprive "some nation like Iran to eventually say to us, `And we've got one 
aimed at Israel.' " He would not discuss what kind of incentive he might 
offer China or Russia to accept the system, other than decreasing the size 
of America's own nuclear missile fleet. And how many warheads could he 
eliminate from America's arsenal?

"That's what we are going to find out," he said.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:961
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-16 15:47:30
Subject:King and the Mountain @ The Priory, Wed. Jan 17
Message:

Hey everyone- Please try to make this event.  Sorry about late notice, but 
that's how it goes in these parts.  I'm working on an extensive digital 
slide presentation of civil rights images that will become the backdrop to 
their stage.  (Oh, I also figured out how you can actually produce work in 2 
and 3 different time zones simultaneously, thereby increasing your output 
capacity geometrically.  Cost you a buck to find out.)  See you tomorrow 
night.  Matthew


>From: Elisabeth Ssenjovu <essenjovu@...>
>Reply-To: motherlandcollective@egroups.com
>To: motherlandcollective@egroups.com
>Subject: [motherlandcollective] King and the Mountain @ The Priory, Wed. 
>Jan 17
>Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 07:56:32 -0800 (PST)
>
>Halim Suliman will join Amiri & Amina Baraka and Blue
>Ark in a dramatic reading of Amiri Baraka's play
>"King and the Mountain" at the Priory
>
>Wednesday, January 17
>7:00PM
>
>The Priory
>215 West Market St.
>Newark, NJ  January 17, 2001
>
>Admission $5.00
>
>Exit 14, Tpk N, signs to Rt 21 N & over bridge, left onto Market St. (train 
>Station to to the right) Past Broad St, Up hill and West Market forks off 
>to right. Priory is old Church on Right with Restaurant awning.


____________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>motherlandcollective-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:962
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-17 15:58:08
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: Public Lives: A Firm New Boss at an Old Voice of the Left
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by Paul McGee shorepaulie@....

NBPC

The Disguised Left--the worst compradors--Here's No. 1.

Paul McGee
shorepaulie@...

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Public Lives: A Firm New Boss at an Old Voice of the Left
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/17/nyregion/17PROF.html

January 17, 2001

By LYNDA RICHARDSON

With the recent firings of staff members and the changing of locks in
the night, it has been suggested by dissenting voices that the
leftist, noncommercial radio station WBAI is having an Alexander
Haig moment.

 In this case, the general who swooped in to take charge is Utrice
Leid, a regal native of Trinidad with a big, booming voice and big
earrings of silver and onyx that match the heavy ring on her
finger.

 Ms. Leid, host of the station's popular afternoon show,
"Talkback," became interim general manager on Dec. 22, after WBAI's
parent group, the Pacifica Foundation of Washington, dismissed the
longtime station manager, Valerie Van Isler; the program director,
Bernard White; and the union steward, Sharan Harper. Ms. Leid and
Bessie Wash, Pacifica's executive director, had the station's locks
changed. Then Ms. Leid went on the air in the early morning to
announce a change in management, and that she was it.

 "The funny thing in my life, it's kind of consistent with my life,
is I end up doing things because I am drafted," Ms. Leid said with
a hearty laugh the other day, poised and relaxed behind a desk
cluttered high with papers and books on the 10th floor of a Wall
Street high-rise.

 A few days into her new job, Ms. Leid, 47, proclaimed that she
loved it. "I look forward to being tested," she said. "In every
moment that I've been tested, I've found that I've been equal or
even superior to the task."

 To say that there is tension at WBAI is to put it mildly. Turmoil
over the firings has divided listeners and staff members at WBAI,
one of five affiliates of the tiny nonprofit Pacifica network,
which was founded in 1946 by pacifists and conscientious objectors.
There have been protests and vigils. Staff members hint darkly
about a hit list, and speculate about who may be next.

 Ms. Leid seems impervious to the unpleasant things said about her,
that she is vindictive, for instance, and that her participation in
the shake-up is revenge against Ms. Van Isler for not hiring her as
program director last year. Ms. Leid says changes are long overdue,
because the station needs to broaden its audience and become more
relevant.

 "It's best to describe what it used to be," she said in the
teacherly tone she used on her talk show to analyze a speech or
quiz her listeners on vocabulary. "It was depressing. It was
suffocating. It was frustrating. It inhibited creativity. It was
badly managed and horribly organized. At the same time, it was also
rife with great possibility and potential."

 But does it strike Ms. Leid as odd for a station that has prided
itself on its democratic functioning to have security guards now?
She explains that the security detail is merely a volunteer force,
friends of hers and the station's.

 "It became clear to many of us that it was planned that the
station would be seized and occupied," she said. "That was the
plan, and in some cases, there were utterances about destroying
equipment and doing harm to the station. We are in a heightened
state of awareness because of this crisis, which is a case of
manufactured dissent."

 DRESSED in a pinstriped shirt, a dark navy blazer and gray slacks,
Ms. Leid is a large woman with milk-chocolate-brown skin and
short-cropped hair. She is clearly comfortable with herself at
center stage. As a girl in Trinidad, she represented her Roman
Catholic school in debates and essay contests. She was also picked
to present bouquets to visiting royalty.

 Ms. Leid was one of nine children, with seven brothers and one
sister. She grew up expecting to be involved in business like her
parents. Her mother owned a restaurant in Trinidad, and her father
owned a variety of businesses, including a movie theater, a grocery
store and a bar.

 Her interest in journalism began in 1973, after her father died of
a heart attack. She went to be with her grieving mother in
Trinidad, which was shakily recovering from a coup attempt. During
her yearlong stay, she researched how people were reacting to the
coup attempt, thinking it would make a good book.

 But one day, machine-gun-toting men appeared at her home and
confiscated her 700 pages of notes, saying her project was
subversive. "It was kind of scary to have men surround the home,"
she recalled matter-of-factly, making one wonder if she might have
scared them.

 Returning to New York, Ms. Leid found a job as a receptionist at
The Amsterdam News. But after a six- month stint at that
black-owned newspaper, she had grander dreams. Along with an
Amsterdam News colleague, she began a small news service to provide
news media outlets with articles with an African-American focus.
The news service lasted about four years.

 Ms. Leid, who is single and lives in Brooklyn Heights, has always
been drawn to nonmainstream news media. She said they offered a
chance to do journalism that might otherwise not get done. In 1984,
she helped create The City Sun, a black-owned newspaper, and was
its managing editor for eight years. She said she left in part
because the paper was lying about its circulation figures to get
better advertising rates.

 Since 1993, Ms. Leid has worked at WBAI. She concedes that these
are not normal times. But she is convinced that things will settle
down soon. Meanwhile, she is unapologetic. 

 "I've never been concerned about whether people like me or don't
like me," she said, "but I will not allow anyone to disrespect me."

        


The New York Times on the Web
http://www.nytimes.com

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:963
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-17 15:59:48
Subject:oh my
Message:

just so you know..

Presidential Inaugural Committee (PIC) Executive Director
Jeanne Johnson Phillips announced Wednesday that the theme
for the 54th Presidential Inauguration is "The South Rises
Again."

from, NY Times (1/17): MAUREEN DOWD: Yes, Yes! To Tara!
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:965
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-18 15:51:50
Subject:Fwd: silent auction fundraiser for Chai project in new brunswick
Message:

FYI


>From: michaels crockfords <mcrockford@...>
>To: photochainb@...
>Subject: Fwd: silent auction fundraiser for Chai project in new brunswick
>Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:35:03 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>Note: forwarded message attached.
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:966
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-19 16:07:48
Subject:Re: [nbpc] oh my
Message:


Kristina,

You should be clear that your posting was refering to a spoof. A few people 
have suggested that it appears as if you sent it as a real news report when 
it is from the NYT OP-ED.

Frank


Kristina's text follows below:

just so you know..

Presidential Inaugural Committee (PIC) Executive Director
Jeanne Johnson Phillips announced Wednesday that the theme
for the 54th Presidential Inauguration is "The South Rises
Again."

from, NY Times (1/17): MAUREEN DOWD: Yes, Yes! To Tara!






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:967
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-19 16:36:32
Subject:Re: [nbpc] oh my
Message:

my apologies to the egroups: the quotation i sent around a few days ago 
about the inauguration was a joke. I should have made that clear. However, i 
agree wholeheartedly with the spirit of the essay...


>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] oh my
>Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:07:48 EST
>
>
>
>Kristina,
>
>You should be clear that your posting was refering to a spoof. A few people
>have suggested that it appears as if you sent it as a real news report when
>it is from the NYT OP-ED.
>
>Frank
>
>
>Kristina's text follows below:
>
>just so you know..
>
>Presidential Inaugural Committee (PIC) Executive Director
>Jeanne Johnson Phillips announced Wednesday that the theme
>for the 54th Presidential Inauguration is "The South Rises
>Again."
>
>from, NY Times (1/17): MAUREEN DOWD: Yes, Yes! To Tara!

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:968
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-22 14:26:31
Subject:Fwd: silent auction fundraiser for Chai project in new brunswick
Message:



>From: michaels crockfords <mcrockford@...>
>To: photochainb@...
>Subject: Fwd: silent auction fundraiser for Chai project in new brunswick
>Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:35:03 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>Note: forwarded message attached.
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:969
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-22 16:51:41
Subject:Superbowl
Message:

Hi
For all those interested, Keith and I are having a SuperBowl party at our 
house, 136 Baldwin Street, NB next Sunday (1/28). 6pm. See you then! BYOB.
Louise

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:970
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-22 18:06:28
Subject:Fwd: [FAIR-L] ACTION ALERT: Ignoring Reality at the Inauguration
Message:



>From: FAIR-L <FAIR-L@...>
>Reply-To: fair-l-request@...
>To: FAIR-L@...
>Subject: [FAIR-L] ACTION ALERT: Ignoring Reality at the Inauguration
>Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:17:01 -0500
>
>                                  FAIR-L
>                     Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting
>                Media analysis, critiques and news reports
>
>
>
>
>
>ACTION ALERT:
>IGNORING REALITY AT THE INAUGURATION
>New York Times Stresses "Legitimacy" Over Democracy
>
>January 22, 2001
>
>The New York Times editorial the day after George W. Bush's inauguration 
>("A
>Vision of Unity," 1/21/01) predicted, based on the inaugural address, that
>Bush could "lift the nation to a new era of inclusion and social justice,"
>and found room to describe how "the gloomy light of a winter's day was
>offset by splashes of color like Laura Bush's blue coat."
>
>But it didn't find space to mention the most striking feature of the 2001
>inauguration: that it occurred amidst widespread and angry protests
>rejecting the legitimacy of Bush's claim to office, the likes of which have
>not been faced by any modern president.  Along the parade route, he was
>confronted by signs with messages like "Shame," "Bush Lost" and "Hail to 
>the
>Thief." The London Guardian (1/22/01) reported that the inaugural parade
>"fell well short of being triumphant, and on many occasions during its slow
>advance through the drizzle, the sound of jeering drowned out the cheers."
>
>But the front page of the New York Times showcased stories like "Bush,
>Taking Office, Calls for Civility, Compassion and 'Nation of Character';
>Unity Is a Theme" and "Proud Father and Son Bask in History's Glow"-- both
>of which discussed Bush's teary-eyed father while avoiding any mention of
>protesters.
>
>While the Times' news editors could not totally ignore the estimated 20,000
>demonstrators, they did their best to downplay them, placing the one story
>about them ("Protesters in the Thousands Sound Off in the Capitol") on page
>17, the sixth out of eight pages of inauguration coverage. This article
>featured one quote from Rev. Al Sharpton and one from a demonstrator who
>spoke of the "inchoate feeling" that led her to march. This abbreviated
>presentation of the viewpoints of the tens of thousands of anti-Bush
>protesters was "balanced" by another quote from one of the hundred
>anti-abortion activists who demonstrated outside Planned Parenthood's
>offices.
>
>All told, the story measured 15 column inches out of eight full pages of
>inauguration coverage. (It was about three-fourths the length of 
>"Floridians
>of the G.O.P. Savor 'Special Victory,' " on page 18.) The accompanying
>photo, a tiny 2"x3" shot of one of the day's anti-Bush marches, was the 
>only
>one out of 19 inauguration-related photos in the paper to show any sign of
>dissent.
>
>Another inside-pages story, "Echoes of the Past, Near and Far, Are Heard on
>the Capital's Streets," included a lone protester outside the Supreme Court
>building, but presented him as well outnumbered by Republican
>counter-demonstrators singing "God Bless America."
>
>The most telling story of the inauguration package was a front-page news
>analysis headlined "Tradition and Legitimacy: A Nation's Old Rituals Begin
>to Dissolve Lingering Clouds of a Bitter Election Battle." This piece, by
>R.W. Apple, did mention the demonstrations-- in order to minimize their
>significance:
>
>"Arguments about the legitimacy of the Texas governor's victory have
>persisted even as the country accepted the fact that he had won. Thousands
>of the doubtful and disenchanted took to the streets of Washington today in
>angry protest. But the debate is likely to grow softer as the nation grows
>accustomed to pictures of Mr. Bush speaking from the Oval Office, boarding
>Air Force One, accompanied everywhere he goes by the strains of 'Ruffles 
>and
>Flourishes' and 'Hail to the Chief.' In the television age, those images,
>more that anything else, confer the mantle of authority and legitimacy on a
>leader."
>
>The notion that it is media images, not the votes of citizens accurately
>counted, that give legitimacy to a leader is profoundly anti-democratic. 
>The
>media's role in trying to shore up the fragile credibility of the
>establishment was a theme in the most insightful piece in the New York
>Times' inauguration coverage, "Reality of Nation's Divisions Quickly Creeps
>into the Commentary, " by TV critic Caryn James. She notes TV pundits'
>attempt to "retreat into a soothing little bubble where every action they
>observe is majestic and every viewer shares their sense of awe"--a bubble
>that was punctured by "visible evidence of furious protesters along the
>parade route."
>
>Because it was not obliged to present live video footage of that "visible
>evidence," the New York Times was much more successful than the television
>networks in minimizing the fact that tens of thousands of citizens from
>across the country marched on D.C. to reject Bush's assumption of power as
>illegitimate and undemocratic.  The Times left readers with the impression
>that the dominant themes of the day were "Unity," "Tradition" and, above
>all, "Legitimacy."
>
>
>ACTION: Please write to the New York Times if you thought that the protests
>against George W. Bush's inauguration were an important story and deserved
>more prominence in the Times' inauguration coverage.
>
>CONTACT:
>New York Times
>229 West 43rd St.
>New York, NY 10036-3959
>
>mailto:nytnews@...
>Toll free comment line: 1-888-NYT-NEWS
>
>                                ----------
>
>Feel free to respond to FAIR ( fair@... ). We can't reply to
>everything, but we will look at each message. We especially appreciate
>documented example of media bias or censorship. And please send copies of
>your email correspondence with media outlets, including any responses, to 
>us
>at: fair@... .
>
>FAIR ON THE AIR: FAIR's founder Jeff Cohen is a regular panelist on the Fox
>News Channel's "Fox News Watch," which airs which airs Saturdays at 7 pm 
>and
>Sundays at 11 am (Eastern Standard Time). Check your local listings.
>
>FAIR produces CounterSpin, a weekly radio show heard on over 120 stations 
>in
>the U.S. and Canada. To find the CounterSpin station nearest you, visit
>http://www.fair.org/counterspin/stations.html .
>
>Please support FAIR by subscribing to our bimonthly magazine, Extra!
>For more information, go to:
>http://www.fair.org/extra/subscribe.html . Or call 1-800-847-3993.
>
>FAIR's INTERNSHIP PROGRAM: FAIR accepts internship applications for its New
>York office on a rolling basis. For more information, please e-mail Peter
>Hart (phart@...)
>
>You can subscribe to FAIR-L at our web site: http://www.fair.org , or by
>sending a "subscribe FAIR-L enter your full name" command to
>LISTSERV@... . Our subscriber list is kept confidential.
>
>You may leave the list at any time-- just send a message with "SIGNOFF
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>                                   FAIR
>                              (212) 633-6700
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>                           E-mail: fair@...
>
>list administrators: FAIR-L-request@...
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:971
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-23 11:06:59
Subject:Fwd: Pacific article in Time
Message:



>From: Nat Bender <nat@...>
>To: vivaohio@..., buell@..., rstrong@...,   
>jchill512@...
>Subject: Pacific article in Time
>Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:39:33 -0500
>
>   WBAI Hits The BigTIME!
>Date: 01/22/2001 12:39:07 PM Eastern Standard Time
>From: efsutton@... (Eileen Sutton)
>Sender: worker-savewbai@...
>Reply-to: savewbai@...
>To: NYC-DAN@..., savewbai@...
>
>JANUARY 29, 2001 VOL. 157 NO. 4
>Time Magazine
>
>STEVE LOPEZ'S AMERICA/NEW YORK
>This Just In: We're Fired
>A hostile takeover rocks radio's voice of the left
>BY STEVE LOPEZ
>
>On election day, with a certain relative of his running for the U.S.
>Senate, the Commander in Chief surprised New York radio stations by
>calling with a genial get-out-the-vote message. But Clinton's
>goodwill wagon lost an axle when he called WBAI in Manhattan and was
>put on the air with Amy Goodman, host of a Pacifica Radio program
>called Democracy Now!
>
>Goodman, an award-winning rabble rouser whose show is carried by
>30-some stations, does not have a change-up. She only has fastballs,
>and she throws at the head. For 30 minutes she kept Clinton dancing
>and ducking, at one point accusing him of being responsible for the
>genocide of 5,000 Iraqi children monthly through U.S. sanctions. It
>was vintage Pacifica Radio, the hell-raising, corporate-bashing voice
>of the left for a half-century, with stations in Los Angeles, Houston
>and Washington, in addition to WBAI and the flagship KPFA in
>Berkeley, Calif. But that voice is now being muffled in a way that
>would embarrass the sandal-wearing founders of the nonprofit Pacifica
>Foundation, some of whom now stage their sit-ins in the next life.
>
>Dreaded capitalists have commandeered the ship, speaking the
>bottom-line language of Arbitron ratings and floating the idea of
>raking in millions by selling a station. They literally changed the
>locks and barred several employees from the building at WBAI last
>month, after doing the same thing two years ago at KPFA. The irony is
>richest at WBAI, where the program director and others were fired
>without warning on Dec. 22 in "the Christmas coup." So much for
>"Democracy Now!"
>
>"Many are calling it a political purge," says Goodman, who's been
>feuding with management over what she regards as attempts to turn her
>bark into a yip that would be more palatable to more listeners. She
>has lamented the firings on-air, and 300 loyal listeners marched last
>week demanding that the commercial-free and listener-supported
>station be returned to its rightful owner--them.
>
>And therein the divide. Some of the 18 members of the national board
>want centralized control of a network that would reach a broader
>audience and rival National Public Radio in prestige. That was never
>a goal when the board was thick with community activists from the
>five local boards, who were committed to local programming
>unavailable in the mainstream press. But national-board members are
>now recruited from the business world instead of the protest lines,
>and although they consider themselves progressives, their wiring is
>different.
>
>"Pacifica has 800,000 listeners, and after 50 years of being on the
>air, that's just not good enough," says board chair David Acosta, a
>Houston C.P.A. Vice chairman Ken Ford, an engineer with the
>conservative Housing Trade Association in Washington, says the
>challenge is to honor the social-justice mission while Pacifica
>grows. "But we are a corporation. It's nonprofit, but we have to
>operate as a business."
>
>To Palo Alto, Calif., board member Tomas Moran, it's operating more
>like a totalitarian government. Moran is among six dissenters who
>insist they're being locked out. Matthew Lasar, a professor at the
>University of California at Riverside who wrote a book about
>Pacifica, says the longtime advocate for openness and democracy is
>running itself "in a way that could be described as secrecy and fiat."
>
>The retooling comes after a consultant sniffed that Pacifica's impact
>has gone from "insignificant to irrelevant." If they paid this guy
>25[cents], they were robbed. What's irrelevant is the numbing prattle
>of indistinguishable loudmouths who populate ratings-driven broadcast
>media.
>
>Everything is numbers today. The weekend box office. The President's
>approval ratings. The quarterly profits. For 50 years, there was one
>place where numbers did not exist as a measure of success or as
>validation of purpose. Pacifica broadcasting can be tedious at times,
>with its tie-dyed version of truth and justice. But the voice is
>indignant, probing and unapologetic, and in the age of megamedia
>conglomerization, an alternative view is a necessity.
>
>And I say this as someone who went on WBAI last year knowing I'd be a
>punching bag. I'd written a screed about misguided support for
>convicted cop killer Mumia Abu-Jamal and was attacked on-air as a
>lazy corporate-media hack. They were wrong, of course. But they were
>damn good at it.
>
>END
>
>TIME partners
>
>Copyright � 2000 Time Inc. All rights reserved.
>Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:972
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-23 11:47:05
Subject:Clayton Reilly over the top/article in Time
Message:

Clayton Reilly, sometime host (and lately "producer") of Wakeup Call on 
WBAI, was ranting and raving this morning about how there is an impossible 
series of splits within the ranks of staff and listeners.

He called the staff (who is mostly volunteer activists) 'non-existent'.  He 
constantly alluded to racist statements by 'enemies' of him and of a 'cabal' 
secretly organized to bash himself, Bessie Wash (sellout head of pacifica) 
and Utrice Leid (sellout scab station mgr. who locked out program director 
Bernard White and union shop steward Sharan Harper).

His constant portrayal of the splits between station advocates leading to 
subsequent reasoning for LIQUIDATION OF THE STATION!!!!! this morning can 
only mean that Reilly is representing the corporate takeover people who've 
infiltrated the board and seek to turn Pacifica into the NPR/Kenny G 
Network.

Tomorrow there will be a 'Report to the Listener' given by Leid and Bessie 
Wash.  I think it'll be during the morning show, probably between 7:30 and 
9am.  Things don't sound good.  I recommend people seek out BAI advocates 
and ask how they can contribute.  There are several legal actions in the 
works over this illegal union-busting takeover at the station, as well as 
weekly protests.  The station may be taken down at any time, as Reilly's 
hostile shutout of Mimi Rosenberg, a loud voice for free speech at BAI 
shows.  Among other things.

I'm going to attempt the websites from memory. Do something to help...

www.savepacifica.net is one site, their are others linked to it.

Paul



>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: Pacific article in Time
>Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:06:59
>
>
>
>
> >From: Nat Bender <nat@...>
> >To: vivaohio@..., buell@..., rstrong@...,
> >jchill512@...
> >Subject: Pacific article in Time
> >Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:39:33 -0500
> >
> >   WBAI Hits The BigTIME!
> >Date: 01/22/2001 12:39:07 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >From: efsutton@... (Eileen Sutton)
> >Sender: worker-savewbai@...
> >Reply-to: savewbai@...
> >To: NYC-DAN@..., savewbai@...
> >
> >JANUARY 29, 2001 VOL. 157 NO. 4
> >Time Magazine
> >
> >STEVE LOPEZ'S AMERICA/NEW YORK
> >This Just In: We're Fired
> >A hostile takeover rocks radio's voice of the left
> >BY STEVE LOPEZ
> >
> >On election day, with a certain relative of his running for the U.S.
> >Senate, the Commander in Chief surprised New York radio stations by
> >calling with a genial get-out-the-vote message. But Clinton's
> >goodwill wagon lost an axle when he called WBAI in Manhattan and was
> >put on the air with Amy Goodman, host of a Pacifica Radio program
> >called Democracy Now!
> >
> >Goodman, an award-winning rabble rouser whose show is carried by
> >30-some stations, does not have a change-up. She only has fastballs,
> >and she throws at the head. For 30 minutes she kept Clinton dancing
> >and ducking, at one point accusing him of being responsible for the
> >genocide of 5,000 Iraqi children monthly through U.S. sanctions. It
> >was vintage Pacifica Radio, the hell-raising, corporate-bashing voice
> >of the left for a half-century, with stations in Los Angeles, Houston
> >and Washington, in addition to WBAI and the flagship KPFA in
> >Berkeley, Calif. But that voice is now being muffled in a way that
> >would embarrass the sandal-wearing founders of the nonprofit Pacifica
> >Foundation, some of whom now stage their sit-ins in the next life.
> >
> >Dreaded capitalists have commandeered the ship, speaking the
> >bottom-line language of Arbitron ratings and floating the idea of
> >raking in millions by selling a station. They literally changed the
> >locks and barred several employees from the building at WBAI last
> >month, after doing the same thing two years ago at KPFA. The irony is
> >richest at WBAI, where the program director and others were fired
> >without warning on Dec. 22 in "the Christmas coup." So much for
> >"Democracy Now!"
> >
> >"Many are calling it a political purge," says Goodman, who's been
> >feuding with management over what she regards as attempts to turn her
> >bark into a yip that would be more palatable to more listeners. She
> >has lamented the firings on-air, and 300 loyal listeners marched last
> >week demanding that the commercial-free and listener-supported
> >station be returned to its rightful owner--them.
> >
> >And therein the divide. Some of the 18 members of the national board
> >want centralized control of a network that would reach a broader
> >audience and rival National Public Radio in prestige. That was never
> >a goal when the board was thick with community activists from the
> >five local boards, who were committed to local programming
> >unavailable in the mainstream press. But national-board members are
> >now recruited from the business world instead of the protest lines,
> >and although they consider themselves progressives, their wiring is
> >different.
> >
> >"Pacifica has 800,000 listeners, and after 50 years of being on the
> >air, that's just not good enough," says board chair David Acosta, a
> >Houston C.P.A. Vice chairman Ken Ford, an engineer with the
> >conservative Housing Trade Association in Washington, says the
> >challenge is to honor the social-justice mission while Pacifica
> >grows. "But we are a corporation. It's nonprofit, but we have to
> >operate as a business."
> >
> >To Palo Alto, Calif., board member Tomas Moran, it's operating more
> >like a totalitarian government. Moran is among six dissenters who
> >insist they're being locked out. Matthew Lasar, a professor at the
> >University of California at Riverside who wrote a book about
> >Pacifica, says the longtime advocate for openness and democracy is
> >running itself "in a way that could be described as secrecy and fiat."
> >
> >The retooling comes after a consultant sniffed that Pacifica's impact
> >has gone from "insignificant to irrelevant." If they paid this guy
> >25[cents], they were robbed. What's irrelevant is the numbing prattle
> >of indistinguishable loudmouths who populate ratings-driven broadcast
> >media.
> >
> >Everything is numbers today. The weekend box office. The President's
> >approval ratings. The quarterly profits. For 50 years, there was one
> >place where numbers did not exist as a measure of success or as
> >validation of purpose. Pacifica broadcasting can be tedious at times,
> >with its tie-dyed version of truth and justice. But the voice is
> >indignant, probing and unapologetic, and in the age of megamedia
> >conglomerization, an alternative view is a necessity.
> >
> >And I say this as someone who went on WBAI last year knowing I'd be a
> >punching bag. I'd written a screed about misguided support for
> >convicted cop killer Mumia Abu-Jamal and was attacked on-air as a
> >lazy corporate-media hack. They were wrong, of course. But they were
> >damn good at it.
> >
> >END
> >
> >TIME partners
> >
> >Copyright � 2000 Time Inc. All rights reserved.
> >Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:973
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-24 11:42:41
Subject:Fwd: Concerned NJ WBAI Listeners
Message:


>Subject: Concerned NJ WBAI Listeners
>Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:24:23 EST
>
>NEXT MEETING OF CONCERNED NJ WBAI LISTENERS:
>
>SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 4 - 7 P.M. - ORIENTATION AT 3:30 P.M.
>  FIRST PRESBYTERIAN AND TRINITY CHURCH
>111 IRVINGTON AVENUE
>SOUTH ORANGE
>
>Dear Concerned NJ WBAI Listener - We are off to an encouraging start, with 
>33
>of us at the animated January 21 planning  meeting.
>
>Milton Zisman reviewed Pacifica and Local Advisory Board history from 1977 
>,
>including when WBAI was off the air for several weeks.  Up until a few 
>years
>ago, the Pacifica National Board (PNB) consisted of 15 members, 10 of whom
>were chosen by the 5 affiliate boards.  Pacifica is the corporation which
>owns all of the licenses. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB) ,
>taxpayer-funded, which contributes between 15 to 20% of Pacifica's national
>budget, ruled that delegates could no longer serve both on the Local 
>Advisory
>Board (LAB) and the PNB.  The LABs had the role of screening candidates for
>station general manager and making recommendations to PNB, which were
>virtually always accepted.  The PNB's response was to abolish direct
>representation, making the current PNB entirely self-selecting and
>perpetuating.  This further accelerated the dominance on the PNB of those
>"looking to the 21st Century", seeking growth in classical corporate terms,
>use of arbitron ratings, etc.
>
>BAI LAB member Andy Norris noted the increased importance of CPB advisors,
>notably David Giovannoni, and the increased philosophical differences 
>between
>the NY and Berkeley LABs and the majority on the PNB. He noted that the BAI
>LAB consists of 15-20 members as well as one paid and one unpaid staff
>member.  They have a 3 year time limit. LAB member Madelyn Hoffman added 
>that
>though the PNB has stripped the LABs of most of their power, they now want 
>to
>go further and set up their own LABs. The LAB has been frustrated in its
>failure to get financial accountability from PNB.
>
>Larry Romsted  from Highland Park reported that from his attendance at a
>recent LAB meeting,  that the LAB is resistant to discussing having an
>elected LAB, as was recently accomplished in Berkeley. He read the demands 
>of
>the Local of the United Electrical Workers Union and asked that we consider
>supporting them.
>
>Later it was pointed out that the LAB has been banned from meeting at 120
>Wall Street, since LAB meetings are open to the public and that listeners 
>and
>the public are not permitted at the station.
>
>Three Lawsuits against PNB are underway by dissident PNB members, LABs and
>listeners.  Support forms were distributed. See
>http://home.pon.net/wildrose/remove.htm
>
>Financial Support was discussed at length, with the pro's and cons of
>withholding support, supporting through only friendly producers, setting up
>an escrow acocunt, being among the topics . A straw poll revealed 
>widespread
>support for the escrow approach, though  Paul Kreisinger later pointed out
>flaws in this approach.
>Ursalla Ruttenberg, Outreach Chair for Concerned Friends of WBAI and a
>station banee, was present as liaison with us.  She welcomes the presence 
>of
>one or more NJ groups. (Madelyn Hoffman reported that a group in
>Bergen-Passaic had met once and could be the nucleus of a group in that
>area.)  Ursalla  described events which preceded the December 22 coup.
>Concerned Friends (CF) has a 2500 person database and is happy to share 
>that
>with us.  She noted that the fundraising strategy issue would be taken up 
>at
>a meeting this Thursday, January 25 at 6:30 p.m. at Winston Unity
>Auditorium,235 West 23rd Street, Manhattan, between 7th and 8th Avenues.
>About 1/3 of those present expected to attend. She shared the following for
>information:
>Hotline - 800-825-0055; Eileen Sutton's listserve  - 718-707-7189 and
>savewbai@..., and also discussed other means of communication,
>including info to producers, email, telephone, auto-calls.  She urged
>contacting members of the PNB, calling to station and producers, letters to
>editors - 212-209-2901. Bob Bender will be the current contact with 
>Concerned
>Friends
>
>$147 was collected, with $20 reimbursed to Ursalla for her costs.
>
>Outcomes - then and subsequent:
>
>Agenda Committee:  Bella August and Madelyn Hoffman
>
>Communications Group, Internal and External:  Paul Surovell, Fred Nguyen -
>telephone tree; Lyn Garcia - Bergen and Passaic Counties. Fred will get the
>database info from Ursalla.
>
>Strategy Committee:  Following the meeting, Belvin Williams -
>E.Belvin.Williams@..., 973-783-9358 and Howard Nelson, People's
>Organization for Progress, howardnelson@... suggested
>organizational planning.  I am asking all those interested in this to 
>contact
>them, and for them to co-chair such a group consisting of those who so
>volunteer. .
>
>Site:   Boe Meyerson and Larry Romsted secured the site to accommodate 150 
>for
>
>Sunday, February 4, 4 - 7 p.m. Banned volunteer Ursalla and fired producer
>Sharan Harper are expected to be with us.
>
>Bob Bender

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:974
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-23 15:11:56
Subject:Re: Strong's comments on Pacifica
Message:

I concur with much of this post, but I think people need to examine the 
issue very closely b4 jumping to the conclusion that supporting BAI is a 
mistake.  The corp. takeover people are not a monolith, suspending all 
progressive programming at the station.  There are many producers who could 
be considered prog/revolutionary, even, who are still producing essential 
and unique programming that Pacifica would certainly nix, given the 
opportunity.  Just because the main advocates of a free BAI have been sacked 
on the surface, doesn't mean that a progressive/rev. faction doesn't have 
any power to control programming.

The management at Pacifica is portraying the upcoming fund-drive (if it 
happens) as crucial to the station, stating that the financial situation is 
deteriorating. This may be scare tactics or truth, but BAI had a record 
fundraiser last time.  This time, the management may be looking to justify 
their moves with a lousy funddrive, spurred on by the disunity, uncertainty 
about the station.

Let's not jump to conclusions though.   Paul


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: njfo@egroups.com
>To: njfo@egroups.com
>Subject: [njfo] Fwd: Pacifica
>Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:32:02
>
>
>
>
> >From: Richard Strong <rstrong@...>
> >To: nat@..., vivaohio@...,
> >jchill512@...,        efsutton@...,
> >worker-savewbai@...
> >Subject: Pacifica
> >Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:55:18 -0500 (EST)
> >
> >
> >In responce to the JANUARY 29, 2001 VOL. 157 NO. 4 Time Magazine Article
> >by STEVE LOPEZ
> >
> >
> >  Capitalist business is like a virus that devours everything in it's 
>path
> >until everything is gone. It has no morals nor conscience. America eats
> >it's
> >own.
> >  Presant day capitalism makes Communism look angelic. Stalin is starting
> >to
> >look more and more like the ally he once was to the Western world. 
>America
> >is now the "Evil Empire".
> >  The writer of the article has obviously never read any of the 
>transcripts
> >from Mumia's trial or his writ of habeous corpus. If a man kills a cop
> >which has not been proven in Mumia's case or Lenard Peltiers for that
> >he is an evil cop-killer punishable by
> >government sponsored death and death alone. Damn a fair trial.
> >When a cop or cops assasinates innocent,unarmed,blackmen(Amadou Diallo
> >etc.)
> >they walk away free men.
> >  George "Dubya" Bush said he would unite the people of this country and 
>he
> >probably will whether you like it or not. He will probably do it the same
> >way
> >his father did. Start a war. That way he can rattle the sabers and anyone
> >who disagrees will of course be called unpatriotic. They can't be called
> >"commies". That would be a compliment.
> >  Watch out! Fidel is next!
> >  Unfortunately financilly supporting the station on the upcoming fund
> >drive
> >would appear to be a moot point. The station was "sold out" to coorperate
> >America the moment the locks were changed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >R.D. Strong
> >Rutgers University
> >NBCS-Hill Center Operations
> >e-mail : rstrong@...
> >
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:975
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-24 12:00:54
Subject:More Bushisms
Message:

these are recent too...

>  "The California crunch really is the result of not enough 
>power-generating
>plants and then not enough power to power the power of generating
>plants."-Interview with the New York Times, Jan. 14, 2001
>
>"I'm hopeful. I know there is a lot of ambition in Washington, obviously.
>But I hope the ambitious realize that they are more likely to succeed with
>success as opposed to failure."-Interview with the Associated Press, Jan.
>18, 2001 (Thanks to M. Bateman.)
>
>"If he's-the inference is that somehow he thinks slavery is a-is a noble
>institution I would-I would strongly reject that assumption-that John
>Ashcroft is a open-minded, inclusive person."-NBC Nightly News With Tom
>Brokaw, Jan. 14, 2001
>
>"She's just trying to make sure Anthony gets a good meal-Antonio."-On Laura
>Bush inviting Justice Antonin Scalia to dinner at the White House. NBC
>Nightly News With Tom Brokaw, Jan. 14, 2001
>
>"I want it to be said that the Bush administration was a results-oriented
>administration, because I believe the results of focusing our attention and
>energy on teaching children to read and having an education system that's
>responsive to the child and to the parents, as opposed to mired in a system
>that refuses to change, will make America what we want it to be-a literate
>country and a hopefuller country."-Washington, D.C., Jan. 11, 2001
>
>"I would have to ask the questioner. I haven't had a chance to ask the
>questioners the question they've been questioning. On the other hand, I
>firmly believe she'll be a fine secretary of labor. And I've got confidence
>in Linda Chavez. She is a-she'll bring an interesting perspective to the
>Labor Department."-Austin, Texas, Jan. 8, 2001
>
>"I do remain confident in Linda. She'll make a fine labor secretary. From
>what I've read in the press accounts, she's perfectly qualified."-Austin,
>Texas, Jan. 8, 2001
>
>"I mean, these good folks are revolutionizing how businesses conduct their
>business. And, like them, I am very optimistic about our position in the
>world and about its influence on the United States. We're concerned about
>the short-term economic news, but long-term I'm optimistic. And so, I hope
>investors, you know-secondly, I hope investors hold investments for periods
>of time-that I've always found the best investments are those that you salt
>away based on economics."-Austin, Texas, Jan. 4, 2001
>
>"The person who runs FEMA is someone who must have the trust of the
>president. Because the person who runs FEMA is the first voice, often 
>times,
>of someone whose life has been turned upside down hears from."-Austin,
>Texas, Jan. 4, 2001
>
>"She is a member of a labor union at one point."-Announcing his nomination
>of Linda Chavez as secretary of labor. Austin, Texas, Jan. 2, 2001
>
>"Natural gas is hemispheric. I like to call it hemispheric in nature 
>because
>it is a product that we can find in our neighborhoods."-Austin, Texas, Dec.
>20, 2000
>
>"I also have picked a secretary for Housing and Human Development. Mel
>Martinez from the state of Florida."-Austin, Texas, Dec. 20, 2000
>
>"Let me put it to you this way, I am not a revengeful person."- Interview
>with Time magazine in the Dec. 25, 2000, issue.
>
>"I am mindful of the difference between the executive branch and the
>legislative branch. I assured all four of these leaders that I know the
>difference, and that difference is they pass the laws and I execute
>them."-Washington, D.C., Dec. 18, 2000

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:976
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-24 12:55:13
Subject:Re: [nbpc] More Bushisms
Message:


...misguided to post this on a coalition e-mail.






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:977
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-24 16:53:50
Subject:Re: [nbpc] More Bushisms
Message:

Why?  President-Select 'Shrub' has made it very clear that he intends to be 
the Anti-Democracy Heir to the Throne~ appointing Ashcroft, a Dixie-Flag 
waving segregationist & friend Bob Jones to take charge of enforcing Civil 
Rights laws?  No thanks.  More Bushims to come.  Matthew


>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] More Bushisms
>Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:55:13 EST
>
>
>
>...misguided to post this on a coalition e-mail.
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:978
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-24 11:42:45
Subject:Photovoice New Bruns. can put your unused camera/darkroom equipment to good use
Message:

FYI

>Hi,
>This email goes out to many people, hoping everything
>is fine in
>your neck of the woods.
>
>I am wondering if any of you have a camera
>(point-and-shoot or
>manual-style 35 mm or old medium format) or darkroom
>equipment
>(enlarger, trays, tongs or other supplies) that you
>dont use anymore
>and would like to donate to a New Brunswick-based
>photography
>project.
>
>
>I am excited to say that the Robert Wood Johnson
>Foundation (the
>philanthropic arm of the J&J healthcare empire) has
>granted
>the Chai Project and me a nice-sized grant to create
>photodocumentary
>work
>with IV-drug using/persons living with aids in New
>Brunswick. For those
>of
>you who dont know, Chai Project has been for at least
>five years
>providing
>non-judgmental help and services to these
>local residents, including, until a couple of years
>ago, a
>clean-needle exchange program. They dont do that
>anymore, and
>instead have expanded and legalized their operations.
>
>This project, which is tentatively called PhotoVoices
>New Brunswick
>(I know, its a bit lackluster) borrows from and is
>similar to a
>photography-based documentary photography methodology
>developed by
>an educator named Caroline Wang. The undergirding idea
>is this:
>largely poor and criminalized IV drug user populations
>are often
>spoken for and about, but dont often speak for
>themselves and get
>heard by the rest of the public. Chai Project
>participants (often
>called clients - many are women,
>unemployed/underemployed,
>city-based, among the most at-risk in terms of
>economics and
>health), with the help of Rutgers interns,
>writer/instructors, Chai
>Project personnel, photographer/instructors  and
>volunteers, will
>develop a body of photographic and written/recorded
>language that
>represents the Chai participants particular views
>regarding some of
>the following aspects of their lives: drug use, access
>to health
>care, lifestyle, social concerns, personal narratives,
>relations to
>social and legal bureaucracies, family, etc.
>Photography will be
>used as a medium of communication, and writing and
>testimony as
>guides for reading the photographs in the ways the
>photographers
>want them to be read. A website will also be created
>for the work.
>
>The Photovoice project will begin making pictures in
>February and
>will build a darkoom with full processing and printing
>capabilities.
>We have already bought some equipment, but do not yet
>have enough to
>keep most people busy. If you can help with your old
>camera
>equipment, or in some other way, then email  or call
>me up. Pass
>this on to anyone who might help.
>
>thanks,
>Mike Crockford
>732-829-3006 cell
>photochainb@...
>
>Chai Project's number is 732 247 7015, but regarding
>this project,
>its better to call me first. They're BUSY!
>(Chai Project has 501c3 status, so that any kind of
>donation can be
>deducted at tax-time. perhaps even real estate space.
>I have to
>check on that.)
>
>(additional note: Unfortunately, I made a big mistake
>in writing my
>part of the grant proposal -- I didnt factor in the
>need for a
>Darkroom Space. We are looking for a downtown-area
>storefront that
>would serve us as both studio and gallery space for
>the next six to
>eight months. Hopefully that will work out.  I think
>it will be
>great to have a publicly accessible downtown space for
>work to be
>seen as it develops, in its various emphases and
>forms, and also as
>a more completed work near the end of the year. If
>anyone has some
>freindly influence with a New Brunswick property
>owner, let Chai
>Project or me know.)
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
>http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:979
Sender:Richard Strong <rstrong@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-25 10:53:07
Subject:Re: Strong's comments on Pacifica
Message:

Please do not misunderstand . I'm not saying do not support the station
financially. By all means please do that if you think it will help. That
decision should be left up the individual(s). All I'm implying is that
the "fix" is already in. This "Christmas Coup" went to smoothly to not
have been planned well in advance. Even if the fund raiser is very
successful, WBAI will not be the WBAI we knew. It is becoming NPR. Plus
the success will still not excuse the appalling treatment of the people,
both paid and unpaid, who were fired and banned without due process to my
knowledge. As I mentioned earlier, it appears they never saw it coming.
Not that the station should follow the procedures of court,it is not a
court room, but some common decentcy should have been used on people
who were in many cases long time dedicated employees and volunteers who
through their selfless hard work and dedication made the very day to day
exisitance of the station possible. They have been disgarded, in my
opinion,like 'worn out shoes'.Well those 'shoes' are still good and in
great shape but apparently somebody didn't care for the 'style',if you
catch my drift.
In closing I say "Yes, support the station, but as the saying goes,'You
may not get what you paid for, but you will most certainly pay for what
you get.' I just personnally want my moneys worth and I want what I pay
for. I paid for WBAI not WBAI-NPR. It appears that if the fundraiser is
successful you will get WBAI-NPR and if it is not you will still get
WBAI-NPR. How's that for "Democracy Now!" Some freedom of choice huh?
I just hope the progressives/revolutionaries who are still on the air can
continue their great work,but judging by what has happened their bright
light of truth is perilously in danger of being snuffed.
 
R.D. Strong
Rutgers University
NBCS-Hill Center Operations
e-mail : rstrong@...



On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Paul McGee wrote:

> I concur with much of this post, but I think people need to examine the 
> issue very closely b4 jumping to the conclusion that supporting BAI is a 
> mistake.  The corp. takeover people are not a monolith, suspending all 
> progressive programming at the station.  There are many producers who could 
> be considered prog/revolutionary, even, who are still producing essential 
> and unique programming that Pacifica would certainly nix, given the 
> opportunity.  Just because the main advocates of a free BAI have been sacked 
> on the surface, doesn't mean that a progressive/rev. faction doesn't have 
> any power to control programming.
> 
> The management at Pacifica is portraying the upcoming fund-drive (if it 
> happens) as crucial to the station, stating that the financial situation is 
> deteriorating. This may be scare tactics or truth, but BAI had a record 
> fundraiser last time.  This time, the management may be looking to justify 
> their moves with a lousy funddrive, spurred on by the disunity, uncertainty 
> about the station.
> 
> Let's not jump to conclusions though.   Paul
> 
> 
> >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> >Reply-To: njfo@egroups.com
> >To: njfo@egroups.com
> >Subject: [njfo] Fwd: Pacifica
> >Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:32:02
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Richard Strong <rstrong@...>
> > >To: nat@..., vivaohio@...,
> > >jchill512@...,        efsutton@...,
> > >worker-savewbai@...
> > >Subject: Pacifica
> > >Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:55:18 -0500 (EST)
> > >
> > >
> > >In responce to the JANUARY 29, 2001 VOL. 157 NO. 4 Time Magazine Article
> > >by STEVE LOPEZ
> > >
> > >
> > >  Capitalist business is like a virus that devours everything in it's 
> >path
> > >until everything is gone. It has no morals nor conscience. America eats
> > >it's
> > >own.
> > >  Presant day capitalism makes Communism look angelic. Stalin is starting
> > >to
> > >look more and more like the ally he once was to the Western world. 
> >America
> > >is now the "Evil Empire".
> > >  The writer of the article has obviously never read any of the 
> >transcripts
> > >from Mumia's trial or his writ of habeous corpus. If a man kills a cop
> > >which has not been proven in Mumia's case or Lenard Peltiers for that
> > >he is an evil cop-killer punishable by
> > >government sponsored death and death alone. Damn a fair trial.
> > >When a cop or cops assasinates innocent,unarmed,blackmen(Amadou Diallo
> > >etc.)
> > >they walk away free men.
> > >  George "Dubya" Bush said he would unite the people of this country and 
> >he
> > >probably will whether you like it or not. He will probably do it the same
> > >way
> > >his father did. Start a war. That way he can rattle the sabers and anyone
> > >who disagrees will of course be called unpatriotic. They can't be called
> > >"commies". That would be a compliment.
> > >  Watch out! Fidel is next!
> > >  Unfortunately financilly supporting the station on the upcoming fund
> > >drive
> > >would appear to be a moot point. The station was "sold out" to coorperate
> > >America the moment the locks were changed.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >R.D. Strong
> > >Rutgers University
> > >NBCS-Hill Center Operations
> > >e-mail : rstrong@...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> 
> 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:980
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-25 13:33:15
Subject:Re: [nbpc] More Bushisms
Message:

frank, i disagree with you. it is not 'misguided'. it's called the free 
expression of ideas. in fact, it's called "free speech", which i will defend 
no matter who is in charge.

I don't care if this is a coalition egroup or not. i maintain my right to 
express my views on the state of our nation, especially since the national 
picture directly pertains to our local struggles (the campaign).

i'm sorry if you disagree. in fact, i'm sorry that you choose to ally 
yourself with bush and co., since they represent the most undemocratic, most 
backward, racist, and just hateful elements of our society. if you look to 
defend the spectacle of our national presidential elections,  you stand in 
sharp contradiction with the goal of the people's campaign.

post your views, frank, if you feel you disagree. but don't try to contain 
others. i won't stand for it.

kristina

>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] More Bushisms
>Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:55:13 EST
>
>
>
>...misguided to post this on a coalition e-mail.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:981
Sender:jagross@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-25 15:40:02
Subject:Re: More Bushisms
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, FBRIGHT123@a... wrote:
> 
> 
> ...misguided to post this on a coalition e-mail.

Well, not necessarily.  Just to begin with an obvious fact:  why 
couldn't a Republican have posted that very same list of G.W. Bush 
quotes?  It doesn't even necessarily constitute an attack on 
Republicans as a whole.

My God, if I were a Republican ... no, excuse me, being that I'm a 
Republican ... I would be rather annoyed that my party anointed Bush 
as its candidate.  Had it been McCain and not Bush, there would have 
never been a 'close election'; Gore would've been crushed.  Instead 
of someone who's qualified to be President, the Republican Party 
chose a man with not even one full term of experience as the Governor 
of a state with a weak executive branch.  There's no reason on 
principle why a criticism of Bush, much less mockery of the man, 
should be taken as an attack on Republicans per se.

Besides, you yourself would be the first to admit that distinction 
can and should be drawn between being loyal to the Republican Party 
on a local level, and being loyal to the national organization or 
federal-level politicians.

Jeremy



  









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:982
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-25 17:37:06
Subject:Re: [nbpc] More Bushisms
Message:


Coalitions don't need messages that attack each other. It isn't censorship as 
it is misguided to apply attacks and expect productive work from the same 
people.











-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:983
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-25 18:19:24
Subject:Re: [nbpc] More Bushisms
Message:

Frank- Who's attacking you?  George W. Bush is opposed to democracy.  
Therefore, he and his principles are open to attack, criticism, mocking, 
organizing against, opposing, hating, trashing, stepping on, covering with 
pee and poo, grinning at, flipping-the-bird, and generally exposing for its 
anti-democratic-ness.  He is an illigitamate president.  Unfortunately, 
people have to live with the adverse affects of his 
illigitamacy...therefore, you might have to live with people being upset 
about it and acting to undo the undoer.


>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] More Bushisms
>Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:37:06 EST
>
>
>
>Coalitions don't need messages that attack each other. It isn't censorship 
>as
>it is misguided to apply attacks and expect productive work from the same
>people.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:984
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-25 23:15:00
Subject:Fwd: Donate a mammogram
Message:

_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:985
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-26 09:43:34
Subject:Re: [nbpc] More Bushisms
Message:

I find it highly curious that you perceive an attack on George Bush as a 
personal attack upon yourself.


>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] More Bushisms
>Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:37:06 EST
>
>
>
>Coalitions don't need messages that attack each other. It isn't censorship 
>as
>it is misguided to apply attacks and expect productive work from the same
>people.
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:986
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-01-27 15:28:42
Subject:Re: [nbpc] More Bushisms
Message:

Attacking Bush isolates a politcal party that is a part of this coalition. It 
is misguided to expect a workable coalition whenone group attacks another. 

It has been discussed, and Keith brought this up at the Dec 2nd General 
Meeting, that a forum or way is needed to bring forth these discussions so 
that they are seen it a context that everyone feels comfortable to listen and 
learn new ideas.

Perhaps a proactive format can be discussed now on the e-groups? 






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:987
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-26 16:40:56
Subject:They stole our idea!!
Message:

To all who doubt the value of the label "People's", here's a tooty fer ya':

Christie Whitman, thank god she's leaving our state,  started out her last 
budget address with the following passage:

"Today, we meet in the people's house. This is the people's budget.  this is 
a budget that will help us continue to make New Jersey a better place...."

Any Questions?

I guess it's okay for Republicans to front like they're for the people.

Paul
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:988
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-29 11:18:15
Subject:Sign AFL-CIO letter opposing Ashcroft!
Message:

>Make your voice heard now!
>
>The vote to confirm John Ashcroft is only a few days away and messages
>to senators are urgently needed. You may have already contacted your
>senator once, but take one minute right now to voice your support for
>civil rights, voting rights, women's rights and stop the confirmation of
>President Bush's Attorney General nominee John Ashcroft. Ashcroft's
>record of service and public comments are marked by opposition to the
>hard-won advances that the attorney general must enforce.
>
>Here is what you can do. Click on the link below right now and send a
>letter to some of the senators who are still undecided. They all need
>to hear from you now.
>
>http://www.aflcio.org/redirect.pl?id=136982
><http://www.aflcio.org/redirect.pl?id=136982&msg=1727&url=/e/09.htm>
>&msg=1727&url=/e/09.htm
>
>
>After you have sent a message to these senators, please forward this
>message to friends, family, co-workers or your union sisters and
>brothers.
>
>Help spread the word and defeat the confirmation of Sen. Ashcroft.
>Thank you for your part in this effort.
>
>--------------------------------------------
>To join the e-Activist Network, visit http://www.aflcio.org
><http://www.aflcio.org>
>
>__________________________
>
>New York Jobs with Justice
>330 West 42 St., Suite 1905
>New York, NY 10036
>T: 212/631-0886
>F: 212/947-0835
>newyorkjwj@... <mailto:newyorkjwj@...>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:989
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-29 13:11:38
Subject:Fwd: CIA to Head Bush Religion Initiative by R Lederman
Message:

Frank, ever heard of Charles Murray?  This is one reason why it's open 
season on Bush & Co...Matt



>From: ARTISTpres@...
>To: undisclosed-recipients:;
>Subject: CIA to Head Bush Religion Initiative by R Lederman
>Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:10:46 EST
>
>  PLEASE FORWARD WIDELY!
>CIA Think Tank to Head Bush Religion Initiative
>
>The NY Times article below describes the two men Bush is
>putting in charge of his religion plan, John J. DiIulio Jr. and
>Stephen Goldsmith. Both men are senior fellows of the CIA's
>Manhattan Institute and are colleagues of Charles Murray, author
>of the classic text of scientific racism, The Bell Curve. Most of
>Bush's advisors are also associated with the Bell Curve. As just
>one of many examples, Murray was a consultant on Tommy
>Thompsons' Wisconsin Welfare Reform program, which Bush
>will make the national model
>
>Following the Times article you will find quotes from the NY
>Times and the Manhattan Institute's own website to substantiate
>the CIA origin of the Manhattan Institute, its influence on GW
>Bush and its very close decade-long association with Charles
>Murray, who wrote The Bell Curve while a research fellow at
>The Manhattan Institute.
>
>Whether you are a fundamentalist Christian, an Orthodox Jew, a
>devout Muslim or an atheist you might question what part the
>CIA rightfully has in a multi-billion dollar "religion initiative" or
>in any domestic US policy decisions. The best known modern
>example of government sponsored religion-based initiatives is
>Nazi Germany.
>
>Robert Lederman
>artistpres@...
>For numerous detailed articles expanding on the connection
>between GW Bush, the CIA and former Nazis see:
>http://Baltech.org/lederman/spray/
>
>NY Times January 29, 2001
>New Bush Office Seeks Closer Ties to Church Groups
>By FRANK BRUNI and LAURIE GOODSTEIN
>
>WASHINGTON, Jan. 28 — President Bush has selected a
>University of Pennsylvania professor of political science to head
>the first federal office intended to promote the integration of
>religious groups into federally financed social services, several
>Bush advisers said today.
>
>The advisers said the opening of the office and the appointment
>of John J. DiIulio Jr. to fill it would almost certainly be
>announced at a White House event on Monday, and they
>acknowledged that it would draw heated opposition from
>organizations and religious groups that advocate a strict
>separation of church and state.
>
>But the encouragement and government financing of faith-based
>programs was a signature campaign issue for Mr. Bush, who has
>said he reads the Bible every day. And the decision to entrust the
>new federal office in charge of that effort to Mr. DiIulio, a
>widely published expert on juvenile crime with impressive
>academic credentials, is an example of the political caution with
>which the Bush administration will proceed.
>
>The choice of Mr. DiIulio, in fact, is only one of several ways in
>which Mr. Bush and his aides are trying to blunt any impression
>that what the president is doing amounts to an evangelical
>endeavor.
>
>"John is a social scientist who believes in empirical evidence,"
>said one Bush adviser, stressing Mr. DiIulio's focus on provable
>results from faith-based social programs that address problems
>like substance abuse, youth violence and teenage pregnancy. The
>adviser also emphasized that Mr. DiIulio does not see faith-based
>programs "as a panacea," but rather as one arrow in a quiver with
>plenty of others.
>
>In addition to Mr. DiIulio, the other central figure in the effort is
>Stephen Goldsmith, the former mayor of Indianapolis who was
>the chief domestic policy adviser for Mr. Bush's presidential
>campaign.
>
>Several Bush advisers said Mr. Goldsmith would be the chairman
>of a new national advisory board whose work will complement
>that of the new federal office. Mr. Goldsmith will also serve as
>an official adviser to Mr. Bush on the issue.
>
>Mr. Bush and his aides do not want the proposals related to
>faith-based programs that they unveil to seem too driven by
>religion. Indeed, the president's goal is to find new ways for the
>federal government to encourage private charities — including
>but not limited to religious groups — to provide more social
>services.
>
>To that end, the title of the new federal office will allude not just
>to faith-based programs but also to community initiatives,
>although several advisers said the order in which the words
>"faith" and "community" would be placed was under debate.
>
>Additionally, Mr. Bush has invited not only leaders of
>faith-based groups but also the heads of other not-for-profit
>organizations to meet on Monday morning at the White House to
>kick off a week of events intended to describe and promote the
>president's vision.
>
>The guest list, according to one of the people on it, includes the
>Rev. Stephen E. Burger, executive director of the Association of
>Gospel Rescue Missions; Sara E. Meléndez, president and chief
>executive officer of Independent Sector, a coalition of nonprofit
>organizations and foundations; and Millard Fuller, founder and
>president of Habitat for Humanity International, the ecumenical
>house-building group.
>
>"It is about faith-based institutions, but it's also about more than
>that," said another Bush adviser, referring to Mr. Bush's plan to
>encourage private groups to administer more of the kinds of local
>programs often provided by government.
>
>A more thorough integration of faith-based and other
>not-for-profit groups into federally financed social services is a
>cornerstone of compassionate conservatism, a political
>philosophy with which Mr. Bush has strongly identified himself.
>
>Compassionate conservatism holds that while the government
>should limit the scope of the social services it provides, it should
>take an active role as a catalyst and source of financing for work
>done by neighborhood and religious groups.
>
>Mr. Bush has said some of the groups with the best results for
>rehabilitating prisoners or fighting drug abuse are ones that take
>religious and spiritual approaches. He has also said the
>government should not hesitate to give money to these groups, as
>long as secular groups that provide similar services are also
>available.
>
>There are signs that these initiatives may elicit bipartisan
>support. This morning, on the ABC News program "This Week,"
>Representative Richard A. Gephardt of Missouri, the House
>minority leader, signaled interest in Mr. Bush's approach.
>
>The Bush administration will roll out these initiatives with the
>utmost care, under the guidance of Mr. DiIulio, who is Catholic,
>and Mr. Goldsmith, who is Jewish.
>
>Although both are well liked by religious conservatives, neither
>is an ideological lightning rod like Marvin Olasky, another
>proponent of faith- based programs and compassionate
>conservatism. Mr. Olasky was with Mr. Goldsmith and Mr.
>DiIulio at a long meeting with Mr. Bush in Austin, Tex., nearly
>two years ago.
>
>"It's not just that we're paying attention to the politics of it," one
>of the Bush advisers said. "We're paying attention to the
>pragmatics of it. I think we're doing it right, and I think we're
>going to be careful about it."
>
>Mr. DiIulio's résumé makes him seem like a personification of
>Mr. Bush's attempts to retain the support of religious
>conservatives while also courting moderates and building a broad
>base of support.
>
>He is a fellow at both the Manhattan Institute, which is a
>conservative think tank, and the Brookings Institute, which is
>not. In a two-month period in the summer of 1999, he wrote
>major articles for The Weekly Standard, a conservative
>publication, and for The New Democrat, a moderate one. He
>identifies himself as a new Democrat.
>
>Mr. DiIulio has also done extensive work with black pastors in
>urban areas, and one of the Bush administration's hopes is that
>its advocacy of faith-based programs will be a bridge to black
>ministers and win some support with the Congressional Black
>Caucus.
>
>Mr. Bush garnered the support of about 9 percent of black voters
>in the presidential election and has been reaching out
>aggressively to African- Americans ever since. This morning, he,
>his wife, Laura, and his parents attended a Methodist church here
>with a predominantly black congregation.
>
>For years, Mr. DiIulio, who taught at Princeton before the
>University of Pennsylvania, was known more for his work on
>criminal justice issues than on his interest in faith-based
>programs. He was among the voices loudly advocating increased
>prison construction in the early 1990's and wrote a 1996 book
>about the war against crime, "Body Count," with John P. Walters
>and William J. Bennett, the former education secretary and drug
>czar.
>
>Mr. Goldsmith, a former prosecutor, was a two-term mayor in
>Indianapolis who privatized everything from golf course
>construction to sewage treatment and showed an interest in
>revitalizing long-neglected inner-city neighborhoods. Late in his
>second term, he started the Front Porch Alliance, a group that
>acted as a liaison between religious congregations — mostly
>urban African-American churches — and government.
>
>For his work with churches, Mr. Goldsmith, a Republican, was
>lauded by many evangelical Christian leaders. But some Jewish
>leaders said they were nervous about an approach that redirects
>tax dollars to churches.
>
>"There's a lot of respect for Stephen Goldsmith," said Rabbi
>David Saperstein, director of the Religious Action Center of
>Reform Judaism. "Many in the Jewish community know him and
>respect him, but any time you have a formal government
>endorsement of religion that this faith-based office conveys, that
>takes us down a path that too often in our history has turned out
>to be disastrous for religious freedom and religious tolerance."
>
>NY Times Monday, May 12, 1997
>Turning Intellect Into Influence Promoting Its Ideas, the
>Manhattan Institute Has Nudged New York Rightward
>"Currently housed in an unprepossessing warren on the second
>floor of a building near Grand Central Terminal, the institute
>was founded as a free-market education and research
>organization by William Casey, who then went off to head the
>Central Intelligence Agency in the Reagan Administration."
>
>NY Times Monday, May 12, 1997 Manhattan Institute Has
>Nudged New York Rightward
>"...the institute was founded as a free-market education and
>research organization by William Casey, who then went off to
>head the Central Intelligence Agency in the Reagan
>Administration."
>
>NY Times  June 12, 2000 Bush Culls Campaign Theme From
>Conservative Thinkers “Gov. George W. Bush has said his
>political views have been shaped by the work of Myron Magnet
>of the Manhattan Institute.”
>
>From the MI website: Books That Influenced Gov. George W.
>Bush  Myron Magnet's The Dream and the Nightmare: "Referring
>to this book, Gov. Bush has said, other than the Bible, that it was
>the most important book he had read..."
>
>  "Education and Welfare: Meeting the Challenge
>A Message from CCI Chairman, Mayor Stephen Goldsmith
>[CCI is a division of Manhattan Institute]
>America is in the midst of an urban renaissance...CCI’s April
>conference “Next Steps in Welfare Reform” highlighted just how
>far we’ve come. The conference brought together public officials
>like Wisconsin Governor Tommy Thompson and scholars like
>Dr. Charles Murray to discuss how governments and private
>groups have reduced dependency and increased
>self-sufficiency...Fifteen years after the Manhattan Institute
>published Charles Murray’s landmark study of American welfare
>policy, Losing Ground, the presentations showed that ideas once
>seen as radical now form the mainstream of the welfare debate."
>
>[Among the panelists alongside Murray and Goldsmith was
>Jason Turner, former head of Wisconsin's welfare program.
>Turner later became infamous as head of NYC's abusive workfare
>system after quoting the motto over the gates of Auschwitz -
>"Arbeit Macht Frei - work shall make you free" [ see: NY Times
>6/27/98].
>
>"Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the
>unshakable stupidity of the voting citizenry, the politicians can
>begin the fight for the 'remaking' of the Reich as they call
>it." -Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1
>
>  "Secular schools can never be tolerated because
>such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral
>instruction without a religious foundation is built on air;
>consequently, all character training and religion must be
>derived from faith . . . we need believing people." [Adolf
>Hitler, April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations
>leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant of 1933]<
>
>"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with
>social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The
>most  successful educational approach to the Negro is through a
>religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want
>to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man
>who can straighten out that idea if  it ever occurs to any of their
>more rebellious members." -From Margaret Sanger's 12/19/39
>letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, Milton, Massachusetts.  Original
>source:  Sophia Smith  Collection, Smith College, North
>Hampton, Massachusetts.  Also described in Linda Gordon's
>Woman's Body, Woman's Right:  A Social History of Birth
>Control in America, Grossman Publishers, 1976. Also see
>Sanger's Birth Control Review
>http://www.hli.org/issues/pp/bcreview/index.html
>
>From an announcement on the MI website
>http://www.manhattan-institute.org/
>Center for Civic Innovation Welfare Conference Held at the
>Manhattan Institute Topic: “Next Steps in Welfare Reform.”
>Participants: [a partial list]
>Charles Murray (Author of Losing Ground; American
>Enterprise Institute),  Jason Turner (Commissioner, NYC
>Human Resources Administration) April 14, 1999 New York,
>New York<
>
> >Village Voice 8/8/2000 Uncle Shrub's Cabin
>"Absent in the sticky Philadelphia heat was the drumbeat of the
>fire-breathing, nay-saying Christian Right. In its place, singing
>the praises of the Jesus-influenced candidate and following a
>script laid out by the Manhattan Institute...the social scientists
>from the Manhattan Institute rolled out their charts and
>reported that kids who go to church in poor neighborhoods do
>fewer drugs and thus, churches, mosques, and synagogues
>"should be supported as uniquely qualified agencies of social
>control that matter a great deal in the lives of adolescents in
>America's most disorganized and impoverished
>communities."<
>
>Manhattan Institute
>http://www.manhattan-institute.org/
>
>Bell Curve
>http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45/049.html
>http://www.fair.org/extra/9501/bell.html
>  http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45/022.html
>
>Robert Lederman
>For articles about Bush, West Nile Virus,
>Mayor Giuliani, The Manhattan Institute and Eugenics see:
>http://Baltech.org/lederman/spray/

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:990
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-29 16:55:24
Subject:Fwd: meeting Sunday
Message:



>From: Nat Bender <nat@...>
>To: vivaohio@..., buell@..., strong@...,   
>jchill512@...
>CC: rbender65@...
>Subject: meeting Sunday
>Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:33:54 -0500
>
>Please forward as appropriate.
>
>In Solidarity, Nat/
>
>Immediate Issue
>
>Contact: Bob Bender, Organizer - 908-755-5846
>
>WBAI LISTENERS ORGANIZING IN NEW JERSEY; SOUTH ORANGE MEETING FEBRUARY 4
>
>New Jerseyans concerned about free speech radio are invited to a public
>meeting on Sunday, February 4, 3:30 p.m. at the First Presbyterian and
>Trinity Church, 111 Irvington Avenue at South Orange Avenue between
>Valley Road and Prospect Street, South Orange..
>
>New Jersey listeners to Pacifica radio station WBAI, 99.5 F.M., are
>mobilizing out of concern for the continuation of Free Speech radio.
>The New York station , described as "initially based on a 'lack of
>corporate control and its dedication to peace' and representing 'grass
>roots, alternative broadcasting'" and which reaches Northern, Central
>and Western New Jersey is a component of the National Pacifica
>Corporation, a non-profit California corporation which also owns the
>licenses of stations in Berkeley, Houston, Los Angeles, Washington,
>D.C.  There have been on-going tensions between, on the one hand, local
>listeners, Local Advisory Boards, and some staff members and producers
>and the national  Pacifica board and staff.  These culminated in a
>"Christmas Coup" when, on December 22 , national Pacifica Director
>Bessie Wash fired 10 year WBAI General Manager Valerie van Isler,
>Program Director Bernard White, also host of the popular morning Wake-up
>Call, and Wake-up Call producer Sharan Harper, and installed as Interim
>General Manager Utrice Leid, former afternoon talk-show host. Various
>volunteers were banned from the station. The station's Local Advisory
>Board was prohibited from meeting at the station since its meetings were
>open to the public.
>
>The Pacifica Foundation was organized in 1946 by a group of pacifists
>and conscientious objectors.  Current critics say that the national
>board is weakening local control of the stations, and speculate that it
>is an effort either to broaden the station's audiences by providing more
>mainstream programming or to sell the frequencies, which might, for
>WBAI, fetch $150 - $200 million.  Subsequent to the December 22
>takeover, complete with  security guards and changed locks in the middle
>of the night, there have been vigils and several demonstrations.  When
>the Local Advisory Board sought to meet, they were rebuffed, resulting
>in the arrest of 9, including 2 LAB members. Protesters have also
>picketed the law office of Epstein Becker and Green, whose partner John
>Murdock is among the controlling group on the Pacifica Board and is
>re-writing their bylaws.  Separate lawsuits filed on behalf of
>listeners, local advisory board, and minority Pacifica Board members
>challenging aspects of the Pacifica structure and operation are working
>their way through the California courts. Similar Pacifica initatives at
>the Berkeley station were mostly rebuffed by popular demonstrations
>estimated as up to 15000.
>
>The conflict has gained national attention, with articles in the New
>York Times, Newsday, Newsweek,  and The Nation magazine.
>
>Interim General Manager Leid has imposed a gag rule forbidding on-air
>discussion of the conflict. She also attributed the origin of the
>station's problems to Polk prize-winning reporter Amy Goodman, who hosts
>Democracy Now, the Exception to the Rulers every weekday from 9 - 10
>a.m.
>
>The New York-based Concerned Friends of WBAI, has called for the
>participation of WBAI's staff and Local Advisory Board in the management
>of WBAI, the immediate reinstatement of all fired staff, lifting of bans
>and the  gagging of producers,  the reopening of the WBAI staff
>collective bargaining unit to unpaid as well as paid staff , support of
>the current lawsuits against the Pacifica National Board, establishment
>of local election procedures for the ongoing selection of Local Advisory
>Board members, and returning to founder Lewis Hill's original Pacifica
>mission.
>
>Information can be found at http://www.wbai.net/
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:991
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-30 14:03:14
Subject:Bush's Faith-based initiative
Message:

Bush announced yesterday that he has created a national office devoted to 
breaking down barriers that inhibit federal contracting with faith based 
organizations... (see today and yesterday's NY Times)

this is terrifying for anyone interested in maintaining a safe distance 
between church and state (reshaping america in the white bible belt 
image...)


>Bush's Christian guru aims to reshape America
>DOUG SAUNDERS
>
>Saturday, January 13, 2001
>
>AUSTIN -- Marvin Olasky won't be in Washington next Saturday when George W.
>Bush becomes president, taking the oath of office on a Bible used by his
>father at his inauguration and also used at the nation's first presidential
>inauguration of George Washington in 1789.
>
>Mr. Olasky isn't one for big parties and hoopla. But the writings of the
>little-known Texas professor -- ideas that would break down the traditional
>barriers between church and state -- will be on the lips of many members of
>the new Republican ascendancy, including its leader.
>
>The phrase "compassionate conservatism" tripped off Mr. Bush's lips
>hundreds of times during the campaign.
>
>It sounded, to most observers, like something aimed at appeasing moderate
>voters.
>
>But to fundamentalist Christian conservatives, it signified the beginning
>of a radical public-policy experiment, one that is neither glib nor
>moderate.
>
>The phrase was coined by Mr. Olasky, a slight, tweedy man who teaches
>journalism at the University of Texas and has become one of Mr. Bush's most
>influential intellectual advisers.
>
>He did not hold an official position in Mr. Bush's Texas administration and
>that won't change as the former governor moves to the White House.
>
>But Mr. Bush is preparing to make the professor's ideas a central part of
>his government.
>
>In short, compassionate conservatism is a taxpayer-funded mission to allow
>religious groups to provide most government social programs, allowing them
>to operate homeless shelters, drug-treatment programs,
>pregnancy-counselling services, prisons and unemployment offices -- even if
>their mission is to convert their clients to religious faith.
>
>To opponents who charge that this will set social programs back a century,
>Mr. Olasky pleads guilty. This, he says, is exactly the point.
>
>"Historically, what we've found is the most useful kind of poverty-fighting
>is spiritual," he said in an interview yesterday at his home in the hilly
>suburbs of Austin. "If I've been any use in this process, it's [been by]
>bringing up some history and showing how in this country we knew how to
>fight poverty, through compassion that's challenging and personal and
>spiritual. And we forgot that in the 20th century."
>
>Mr. Olasky, like Mr. Bush, is a fundamentalist born-again Christian. The
>two have shared ideas since 1993, shortly before Mr. Bush was elected
>governor.
>Their last meeting was just last month.
>
>Mr. Olasky's book, Compassionate Conservatism, published last year,
>contains a laudatory introduction by the President-elect and a reprint of a
>campaign speech in which Mr. Bush promised to bring religious groups into
>the
>government fold.
>
>"In every instance where my administration sees a responsibility to help
>people, we will look first to faith-based organizations, charities and
>community groups that have shown their ability to save and change lives,"
>Mr. Bush said, adding that the greatest hope for the poor is not found in
>"reform" but in "redemption." In other words, religious belief.
>
>In recent days, Mr. Bush has created an Office of Faith-Based Programs. It
>likely will be headed by Stephen Goldsmith, a former Republican mayor of
>Indianapolis who allowed religious groups to offer many of the city's
>social services. Mr. Bush has promised to expand the scope of a 1996 law
>that
>allows people to redirect tax dollars to private charities and religious
>groups. He has stressed that those programs will also be offered by
>non-religious organizations.
>
>Mr. Olasky and his followers believe that poverty is not caused by a lack
>of money, but by a lack of moral values on behalf of the poor. As such, 
>they
>see welfare as a poor alternative to religion.
>
>"When I've gone around and talked to guys who've been homeless for a long
>time or are alcoholics or addicts, when they do come out of it, nine times
>out of 10, in my experience, it's a religious transformation," Mr. Olasky
>said. "When you're thinking about helping the people in the greatest need,
>then it doesn't happen except through a type of religious transformation."
>
>Many Republicans and religious conservatives believe that the Office of
>Faith-Based Programs should be just the beginning. Jesse Helms, the
>Republican chairman of the Senate foreign relations committee, said this
>week that foreign aid should be placed under the care of religious
>organizations.
>
>All of this has raised the ire of freedom-of-expression groups and
>constitutional scholars, who point out that the United States was founded
>on the notion of a resolutely secular state. It is one of the few major
>Western nations, along with France, whose Constitution does not have a
>theological basis (mention of God in the Pledge of Allegiance and the In
>God We Trust slogan on currency were added just decades ago to
>differentiate the United States from Communist countries.)
>
>"This is on its face a kind of constitutional crisis. The merger of church
>and state in the White House represents a terrible reversal of the
>country's principles," said Barry Lynn, head of the Washington advocacy
>group
>Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
>
>The U.S. Constitution's First Amendment, he notes, contains the phrase
>"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
>prohibiting the free exercise thereof," and the Supreme Court has
>interpreted this to mean that governments cannot direct funds to religious
>groups.
>
>But Mr. Olasky and his followers believe separation of church and state is
>based on a misinterpretation of the Constitution. In his books, he offers a
>rereading of U.S. history in which such luminaries as Thomas Jefferson and
>James Madison are replaced by more spiritually minded early Americans.
>
>"The government was meant to be secular in the sense of not preferring any
>religion. That's what the First Amendment was all about," Mr. Olasky said
>yesterday. "The founders would have seen what we've done to the public
>square not as neutrality, but as nakedness."
>
>Mr. Olasky has devoted his life to extremes. Raised in the Jewish faith,
>his political views became increasingly radical and isolated at university.
>He
>joined the Communist Party in the early 1970s, when even members of the
>extreme left had rejected Moscow-style leadership. He toured the Soviet
>Union and became an agitator on the University of Michigan campus, until a
>second, equally dramatic transformation occurred, shortly after he married
>his second wife, Susan Northway.
>
>"We asked ourselves which denomination represented the extreme opposite of
>the hard-left," Ms. Northway said in a 1999 interview. "Then we looked in
>the phone book and found the Conservative Baptist Church. By the end of
>that summer of '76, we had come to Christ."
>
>In 1985, Mr. Olasky founded a weekly newsmagazine, World, which reviews
>events from a rigidly biblical perspective (he claims it is now the
>fourth-largest newsmagazine in the country). He created a new Presbyterian
>church suited to his views.
>
>A decade later, his book, The Tragedy of American Compassion, which
>introduced the concept of compassionate conservatism, got him noticed in
>Washington.
>
>When Newt Gingrich led the Republican takeover of the House of
>Representatives in 1994, he sent a copy of the book to every congressman.
>It was eagerly read by George W. Bush, who had converted to fundamentalist
>Christianity in the 1980s in an effort to end his drinking problems.
>
>During his tenure as Texas governor, Mr. Bush became the first state leader
>to allow proselytizing Christian organizations to offer state-funded social
>programs, including a ministry-run prison program.
>
>Mr. Olasky and Mr. Bush appear to have met at an opportune moment, when
>devoutly religious citizens -- almost half of all Americans believe that
>the Bible is literally true -- felt profoundly alienated from their
>government.
>
>Throughout his election campaign, Mr. Bush made outspoken appeals to
>disenfranchised Christians. His Democratic opponent, Al Gore, is also a
>fundamentalist Christian and made equally frequent mentions of God and
>Jesus Christ on the stump, but Mr. Bush peppered his speeches with phrases,
>such as "personal redemption," that carry special meaning for the religious
>right.
>
>A poll of 1,500 Americans conducted this week by Public Agenda, a nonprofit
>research organization, found that 44 per cent think government funding for
>social services offered by religious groups is "a good idea." About 30 per
>cent consider it "a bad idea," while 23 per cent would support it if the
>programs did not carry religious messages.
>
>In other words, many Americans seem to agree with Mr. Olasky that religious
>and secular groups should compete for the souls of the American poor.
>
>"The thing that's been debated for 2000 years is what is Caesar's and what
>is God's," he said. "You can't dissociate your policymaking from religious
>views, but you can do what Bush does, which is neither to encourage nor
>discourage religious groups, but to judge by results."
>
>Copyright � 2001 Globe Interactive
>*******************************************

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:992
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakow@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-31 12:50:01
Subject:Global Womens and Girls Strike Against Injustice - Tell All
Message:

Hold onto your hats, world, we are putting our feet down.

Agression, rape of our earth and oppression of its people must stop.

There are NO excuses.  NONE of us ever wanted the situation we have now.  If 
you find yourself making an excuse for it, take a look at where you gave up 
on yourself as a young person, and where you gave up on those around you to 
stand up for you and for what was right.

See this -


>http://womenstrike8m.server101.com/
>
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:993
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-31 13:06:05
Subject:Women's and Girls' International Strike March 8 International Women's Day
Message:

Hold onto your hats, world, we are putting our feet down. 

Agression, rape of our earth and oppression of its people must and will stop. 

There are NO excuses.  NONE of us ever wanted the situation we have now.  If you find yourself making an excuse for the status quo, take a look at where you gave up on yourself, and where you gave up on those around you to stand up for you and for what was right. 

See this - http://womenstrike8m.server101.com/







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:994
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-31 15:52:34
Subject:Fwd: Women's and Girls' International Strike March 8 International Women's Day
Message:



>From: "Zofia Nowakowski" <ZNowakowski@...>
>To: kbas@...,Krisbas@..., nicoleadler@...
>Subject: Fwd: Women's and Girls' International Strike March 8 International 
>Women's Day
>Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:18:35 -0500
>
>Can you post this fwded msg on the egroups?
>
>It is not posting for me -
>
>Thanks,
>
>Zofia

_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:995
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-31 15:59:11
Subject:Fwd: [FAIR-L] MEDIA ADVISORY: Award-Winning Reporter Resigns On-Air from Pacifi ca
Message:



>From: FAIR-L <FAIR-L@...>
>Reply-To: fair-l-request@...
>To: FAIR-L@...
>Subject: [FAIR-L] MEDIA ADVISORY: Award-Winning Reporter Resigns On-Air     
>          from Pacifi              ca
>Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:14:01 -0500
>
>                                  FAIR-L
>                     Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting
>                Media analysis, critiques and news reports
>
>
>
>
>
>MEDIA ADVISORY:
>Award-Winning Reporter Resigns On-Air from Pacifica;
>Calls for Campaign to Oust Network Leadership
>
>January 31, 2001
>
>In a dramatic on-air announcement, Juan Gonzalez, the co-host of the
>Pacifica Radio Network show "Democracy Now!," resigned this morning from 
>the
>network. Citing harassment and muzzling of free speech, Gonzalez said that
>"the current management situation at Pacifica has become intolerable...the
>last straw being the Christmas Coup at this station, WBAI, last month"- a
>reference to the recent unexplained firings and bannings of top staff.
>
>"I've come to the conclusion that the Pacifica board has been hijacked by a
>small clique that has more in common with modern-day corporate vultures 
>than
>with working-class America," Gonzalez said.
>
>Addressing his co-host at Democracy Now!, Amy Goodman, Gonzalez continued:
>"You are a wonderful and committed journalist and you have been subjected 
>to
>slanderous personal accusations and constant undermining of your efforts.
>And the board of Pacifica has tolerated it and, I think, even encouraged
>this."
>
>Gonzalez ended his on-air resignation by announcing a "national corporate
>campaign" to oust the Pacifica Foundation's embattled new board leadership,
>which he accused of "illegally chang[ing] the Foundation's bylaws." He said
>the campaign would call on listeners, instead of donating to Pacifica, to
>contribute money to groups challenging the board's legitimacy and working 
>to
>democratize the network.
>
>Gonzalez said the current leadership group "does not respect free speech; 
>it
>does not respect labor or civil rights; it doesn't even practice due 
>process
>for its own managers."
>
>Pacifica's Washington, D.C. station, WPFW, censored most of Gonzalez's
>statement, cutting away to taped programming.
>
>Gonzalez, who has co-hosted "Democracy Now!" since 1996, is a staff
>columnist with the New York Daily News. He has won numerous awards,
>including a George Polk award. His latest book is "Harvest of Empire: A
>History of Latinos in America" (Viking 2000). He was a founding member of
>the National Association of Hispanic Journalists.
>
>FAIR executive director Jeff Cohen commented: "Juan Gonzalez exemplifies 
>the
>best in the Pacifica tradition-a journalist who tells the stories of the
>powerless and holds the powerful to account. As the two-year-long Pacifica
>crisis worsens and the network's survival is seriously in question, FAIR
>joins Gonzalez in calling for the national board leadership to step down.
>Whatever these individuals' intentions, unless there is a prompt and
>thorough transformation in Pacifica's national leadership, it is impossible
>to see Pacifica fulfilling its unique, historical mission."
>
>For more information about Gonzalez and the campaign, call (212) 871-9322 
>or
>email pacificacampaign@....
>
>
>Juan Gonalez's letter of resignation is below.
>
>*****
>To: Steve Yasko, Pacifica Director of National Programming
>CC: Pacifica Board of Directors
>From: Juan Gonzalez
>
>Date: 1/31/01
>
>Re: Resignation
>
>
>This is to notify you that I am resigning as co-host of Democracy Now!
>effective immediately.
>
>I take this action with much regret since, as you know, I have worked
>alongside host Amy Goodman from the show's inception nearly five years ago
>and am proud of the groundbreaking work we have done to establish a 
>national
>radical news magazine. Even more important, I have listened to Pacifica
>programs for more than 30 years and understand the critical role the 
>network
>has played in reporting important stories the corporate media ignored, thus
>helping to shape
>progressive thought and popular movements throughout the country.
>
>But the current management situation at Pacifica has become intolerable, 
>and
>despite my hope that the majority of the Pacifica Foundation board of
>directors would come to its senses, the situation has only gotten worse. 
>The
>last straw was the Christmas coup at WBAI last month.
>
>Quite simply, the Pacifica board has been hijacked by a small clique that
>has more in common with corporate vultures than with working-class America.
>That clique has illegally changed the Foundation's by-laws, and during the
>past two years it has methodically sought to squash dissent throughout the
>network -- first at KPFA, then at PNN news, then at Democracy Now!, and now
>at WBAI. This group does not respect free speech. It does not respect labor
>or civil rights. It does not even practice due process for its own 
>managers.
>And it is now seeking to radically alter Pacifica's by-laws to pave the way
>for the selling of one or more stations.
>
>Furthermore, this clique insults Pacifica's loyal and sophisticated
>listeners by  asking them to finance its shenanigans with their donations.
>
>Starting today, I will be joining other Pacifica listeners in a national
>corporate campaign that will not rest until every board member who has
>orchestrated this hijacking resigns and a new board is in place -- one that
>is democratically accountable to the network's listeners, community and
>staff.
>
>Our campaign will call for listeners across the country to withhold
>donations to Pacifica in a mass referendum against your policies. Instead,
>we will urge them to contribute their money to a variety of groups around
>the country that are battling the Pacifica board -- including the legal 
>fund
>for court suits which are currently challenging the board's legitimacy.
>
>Mr. Murdock, Mr. Acosta, Mr. Palmer, you will soon find out that Pacifica 
>is
>listener-sponsored radio.
>
>***
>
>                                ----------
>
>Feel free to respond to FAIR ( fair@... ). We can't reply to
>everything, but we will look at each message. We especially appreciate
>documented example of media bias or censorship. And please send copies of
>your email correspondence with media outlets, including any responses, to 
>us
>at: fair@... .
>
>FAIR ON THE AIR: FAIR's founder Jeff Cohen is a regular panelist on the Fox
>News Channel's "Fox News Watch," which airs which airs Saturdays at 7 pm 
>and
>Sundays at 11 am (Eastern Standard Time). Check your local listings.
>
>FAIR produces CounterSpin, a weekly radio show heard on over 120 stations 
>in
>the U.S. and Canada. To find the CounterSpin station nearest you, visit
>http://www.fair.org/counterspin/stations.html .
>
>Please support FAIR by subscribing to our bimonthly magazine, Extra!
>For more information, go to:
>http://www.fair.org/extra/subscribe.html . Or call 1-800-847-3993.
>
>FAIR's INTERNSHIP PROGRAM: FAIR accepts internship applications for its New
>York office on a rolling basis. For more information, please e-mail Peter
>Hart (phart@...)
>
>You can subscribe to FAIR-L at our web site: http://www.fair.org , or by
>sending a "subscribe FAIR-L enter your full name" command to
>LISTSERV@... . Our subscriber list is kept confidential.
>
>You may leave the list at any time-- just send a message with "SIGNOFF
>FAIR-L" in the body to: LISTSERV@... .
>
>                                   FAIR
>                              (212) 633-6700
>                           http://www.fair.org/
>                           E-mail: fair@...
>
>list administrators: FAIR-L-request@...
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:996
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-02-01 09:39:16
Subject:1st Anniversary Arthouse on 2/17 @ 8pm @ 559!!
Message:

I know most folks are trying to pick the pieces after the coup, but 

            REJOICE!  There IS Arthouse, 

    Where hip folks come together to make and listen to/watch 
multinational 
concerned cultural expression.  We're continuing the tradition
started 
last 
year with a First Anniversary Show! 

With visual art, music, poetry, hip hop, and intense discussion of
our 
lives 
and world. 

And we want you to join us on February 17 at 8pm. That's a Saturday, 
and 
don't be late cuz the house is gonna fill up fast.  We're charging 5 
bucks so that 
we can continue building and improving on the show.   We're inviting 
special 
musical guests and others to delight all with their practice and 
creativity. 
And as usual we're inviting everyone to sign up for the open mic, so 
give it 
a chance and show some of your own stuff. 

The show's still at 559 Hamilton Street, Somerset, just down the 
street from 
the Ale'n'Wich (the Louis St. light), up the hill, thru the next
light 
and 
park, cuz we're on the right, just across from Krauszer's.  Any 
questions, 
call 732/729-0873 and leave a message for Paul. 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:997
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-01 14:26:35
Subject:Fwd: GE to cut 75,000 jobs?
Message:

I guess the corporations aren't waiting for the recession...


>From: "Eugene McElroy" <manyanovo@...>
>To: smlr_net@...
>Subject: GE to cut 75,000 jobs?
>Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:46:44
>
>http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2001/02/01/companies/ge/
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:998
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-01 14:51:52
Subject:Spike Lee Dialogue and Get Together
Message:

Subject: Re:
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:46:02 -0500

Some directions to this Saturday's gig (coming from Newark, NJ):

East Orange is the next town over from Newark, going north-west.  I've
got two methods: take Route 280 West and get off at the S. Clinton
Street (East Orange) exit.  At about the third light make a left turn
onto Halsted Street (Halsted is right after N. Clinton Street).

You can also take Central Avenue from downtown Newark and go straight up
and right turn at the Carvel Bakery onto Halsted Street.  Taking this
route, my building is the first apartment building on your left, right
after the pediatric clinic (you'll see the clinic's sign right before my
building).

Hope to see ya all there.  It promises to be LIVE !!!
(EMILIO- Please bring Asela!!)


Khabirah Myers wrote:

>Greetings everybody!
>
>You are cordially invited to a get together focusing on the works of 
>filmmaker Spike Lee.  This event will feature a viewing of Spike Lee's 
>latest film, Bamboozled, followed by a video critique featuring poet, 
>activist, lecturer Imamu Amiri Baraka.  In the video critique, Baraka gives 
>his personal views on the films of Spike Lee and the implications Lee's 
>films have in the political world.  Please bring your minds and a palatable 
>dish to share with others.
>
>Place:    My Place -- 157 Halsted Street                                  
>Apt. #403                                  East Orange, NJ Time:    5:30 PM 
>(Showing of Bamboozled starts at 6 PM sharp!)
>
>Date:    Saturday, 3 February 2001 Menu:   Pot Luck
>
>Please RSVP to Khabirah with your palatable dish no later than Wednesday, 
>31 January.

_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:999
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-31 16:12:43
Subject:1st Anniversary Arthouse Sat. 2/17@8pm!!
Message:

Hey everybody in the Land of Bush....

I know most folks are trying to pick the pieces after the coup, but

             REJOICE!  There IS Arthouse,

     Where hip folks come together to make and listen to/watch multinational 
concerned cultural expression.  We're continuing the tradition started last 
year with a First Anniversary Show!

With visual art, music, poetry, hip hop, and intense discussion of our lives 
and world.

And we want you to join us on February 17 at 8pm. That's a Saturday, and 
don't be late cuz the house ain't that big.  We're charging 5 bucks so that 
we can continue building and improving on the show.   We're inviting special 
musical guests and others to delight all with their practice and creativity. 
And as usual we're inviting everyone to sign up for the open mic, so give it 
a chance and show some of your own stuff.

The show's still at 559 Hamilton Street, Somerset, just down the street from 
the Ale'n'Wich (the Louis St. light), up the hill, thru the next light and 
park, cuz we're on the right, just across from Krauszer's.  Any questions, 
call 732/729-0873 and leave a message for Paul.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1000
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-02 14:44:27
Subject:Fwd: [FAIR-L] DOUBTS ON MASSACRE: Media Ignore Questions About Incident That Sp arked Kosovo War
Message:



>From: FAIR-L <FAIR-L@...>
>Reply-To: fair-l-request@...
>To: FAIR-L@...
>Subject: [FAIR-L] DOUBTS ON MASSACRE: Media Ignore Questions About          
>     Incident That Sp              arked Kosovo War
>Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:24:36 -0500
>
>                                  FAIR-L
>                     Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting
>                Media analysis, critiques and news reports
>
>
>
>
>
>         MEDIA ADVISORY:
>         DOUBTS ON MASSACRE:
>         Media Ignore Questions About Incident That Sparked Kosovo War
>
>         February 1, 2001
>
>         In 1999, the discovery of bodies in the Kosovo village of Racak
>helped push NATO into war.  New evidence casting doubt on claims that the
>bodies were civilian victims of a massacre has stirred debate in the
>European media-- but there has been a virtual blackout on the news in the
>U.S. press.
>
>         In January of 1999, the American head of the Organization for
>Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) mission in Kosovo announced that
>45 Kosovar Albanians from the village of Racak had been massacred by Serb
>soldiers. U.S. diplomat William Walker condemned the killings as a
>"horrendous" massacre, stating that the dead were all civilians who had 
>been
>brutally executed, many of them mutilated after death.
>
>         Once the massacre story was reported in heart-wrenching detail by
>media across the globe, pressure for war intensified and previously
>reluctant European allies took a major step toward authorizing airstrikes. 
>A
>Washington Post article (4/18/99) reconstructing the Kosovo decision-making
>process found that "Racak transformed the West's Balkan policy as singular
>events seldom do."
>
>         Troubling questions soon emerged, however, about whether or not
>there had actually been a massacre at Racak, or whether the incident had
>been manipulated to push NATO into war-- questions almost completely 
>ignored
>by the U.S. media at the time.
>
>         Front-page news articles by veteran Yugoslavia correspondents
>questioning William Walker's account were published in French newspapers
>like Le Figaro ("Dark Clouds Over a Massacre," 1/20/99) and Le Monde ("Were
>the Dead in Racak Really Massacred in Cold Blood?," 1/21/99). The German
>daily Berliner Zeitung reported in March (3/13/99) that several European
>governments, including Germany and Italy, were pressing the OSCE to fire
>William Walker based on information from OSCE monitors in Kosovo that the
>Racak bodies "were not-- as Walker declared-- victims of a Serbian massacre
>of civilians," but were mostly KLA fighters killed in battle.
>
>         The Sunday Times of London (3/12/00) reported that Walker's team 
>of
>American observers was covertly working with the CIA, pursuing a policy
>intended to push NATO into war. "European diplomats then working for the
>OSCE claim it was betrayed by an American policy that made airstrikes
>inevitable," the Sunday Times reported.
>
>         After the massacre, the European Union hired a Finnish team of
>forensic pathologists to investigate the deaths. Their report was kept
>secret until now, two years later. The U.S. media is ignoring the story,
>despite the report's finding that although people did indeed die at Racak,
>there is no evidence of a massacre.
>
>         According to the Berliner Zeitung (1/16/01), the Finnish
>investigators could not establish that the victims were civilians, whether
>they were from Racak, or even exactly where they had been killed.
>Furthermore, the investigators found only one body that showed traces of an
>execution-style killing, and no evidence at all that the bodies had been
>mutilated.
>
>         The Berliner Zeitung also reports that these findings were 
>completed
>as early as June 2000, but that their publication had been blocked by the 
>UN
>and the EU.
>
>         Except for one brief wire story from United Press International
>(1/18/01), not a single U.S. media outlet has run a story on the Finnish
>team's findings. News outlets continue to refer to the Racak massacre
>without qualification, despite the cloud of uncertainty hanging over the
>story.
>
>         A recent Chicago Tribune report (1/23/01) about the Albanian
>separatist militia in southern Serbia speculated that the Serbs might
>"revert to form and respond to an Albanian provocation with a Racak-style
>retaliation." (The KLA-linked militia, called the UCPMB, are reportedly
>preparing for a new war and recently fired on British KFOR troops-- London
>Guardian, 1/26/01.) The Tribune made no mention of any questions 
>surrounding
>the Racak incident.
>
>         A recent Philadelphia Inquirer story (1/23/01) about Yugoslavia's
>relationship with the war crimes tribunal at The Hague claimed that "Serbs
>refuse to accept the world's vision of them as aggressors," and noted that
>Yugoslav president Vojislav Kostunica "alleges the killings [at Racak] were
>staged to look like a massacre to embarrass Yugoslavia." The Finnish team's
>findings about Racak, which prompted Kostunica's recent allegations, went
>unmentioned.
>
>         An Associated Press article (1/18/01) did elliptically note the 
>new
>report's existence, reporting that Kostunica wants to discuss with The 
>Hague
>"reports attributed to Finnish pathologists saying there was no evidence of
>a Serb massacre" at Racak (1/18/01).
>
>         With tensions in southern Serbia mounting and fears of a new 
>Kosovo
>war escalating daily, the U.S. media's silence on this story is troubling.
>
>                                ----------
>
>Feel free to respond to FAIR ( fair@... ). We can't reply to
>everything, but we will look at each message. We especially appreciate
>documented example of media bias or censorship. And please send copies of
>your email correspondence with media outlets, including any responses, to 
>us
>at: fair@... .
>
>FAIR ON THE AIR: FAIR's founder Jeff Cohen is a regular panelist on the Fox
>News Channel's "Fox News Watch," which airs which airs Saturdays at 7 pm 
>and
>Sundays at 11 am (Eastern Standard Time). Check your local listings.
>
>FAIR produces CounterSpin, a weekly radio show heard on over 120 stations 
>in
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>http://www.fair.org/counterspin/stations.html .
>
>Please support FAIR by subscribing to our bimonthly magazine, Extra!
>For more information, go to:
>http://www.fair.org/extra/subscribe.html . Or call 1-800-847-3993.
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1001
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-03 23:40:56
Subject:Fwd: Virginia Admits Eugenics Sterlizations-Wash Post 2/3/2001
Message:



>From: ARTISTpres@...
>To: undisclosed-recipients:;
>Subject: Virginia Admits Eugenics Sterlizations-Wash Post 2/3/2001
>Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:25:22 EST
>
>PLEASE FORWARD WIDELY!!!
>
>When people read my articles mentioning eugenics, many think I am referring
>to some conspiracy theory or am unfairly juxtaposing a legitimate 
>scientific
>interest in genetics with the horrors of Nazi Germany. The following
>Washington Post article makes the reality of the American eugenics movement
>unambiguously clear. Hundreds of thousands of American citizens, most of 
>whom
>were normal, were forcibly sterilized based on laws in 30 different states.
>The sterilizations were just one small aspect of American eugenics. Much of
>psychiatric medicine is based on eugenics and on the work done by Nazi
>scientists-quite a few of whom were imported into the US following WWII. 
>The
>US military has its own very extensive eugenics program. Many of the
>population control agencies of the US and UN are fronts for eugenics. Our
>current Presidents' family has been in the forefront of the eugenics 
>movement
>for 70 years. The Human Genome Project admits on its own website that
>eugenics was the origin of this scientific project. This article from the
>most mainstream of newspapers just begins to open this aspect of the hidden
>history of racial genocide in the US.
>Robert Lederman
>
>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19404-2001Feb2.html
>
>WASHINGTON POST
>Va. House Voices Regret for Eugenics
>State Was Once a Leader In Forced Sterilizations
>     Del. Mitchell Van Yahres (D-Charlottesville) sponsored the resolution.
>"Scientifically we're greatly advanced, but morally we have a problem," he
>said. (Bob Brown - AP)
>By Craig Timberg
>Washington Post Staff Writer
>Saturday, February 3, 2001; Page A01
>
>RICHMOND, Feb. 2 -- The House of Delegates voted today to express regret 
>for
>Virginia's policies of selective breeding during the 20th century, 
>including
>the forced sterilization of 8,000 mostly poor, uneducated men and women for
>supposed hereditary "defects."
>
>The 85 to 10 vote came after some of the hundreds of victims of Virginia's
>forced sterilizations spoke out in television and newspaper reports
>spotlighting the state's leading role in a movement called eugenics. It
>sought to use government power to breed away such chronic social problems 
>as
>poverty, immorality, crime, addiction and ignorance.
>
>The resolution, which requires the approval of the state Senate, would make
>Virginia the first among the 30 states that once had forced sterilization
>laws to formally express regret. The resolution passed today would declare
>"profound regret over the Commonwealth's role in the eugenics movement in
>this country and the incalculable human damage done in the name of 
>eugenics."
>
>It was a remarkable moment for a state whose leaders prefer to talk about
>Virginia's role in helping found the nation -- and lately, its high-tech
>dominance -- instead of its prominent role in such historic evils as 
>slavery,
>segregation and forced sterilizations.
>
>Even today's resolution was changed to remove the word "apology." Some 
>House
>members, including Del. Harry J. Parrish (R-Manassas), wanted to go further
>and remove the passage expressing regret, though he called the resolution's
>intentions admirable.
>
>"We're offering regrets for something that was done legally," Parrish said.
>"It's improper for us to now second-guess the General Assembly then."
>
>Virginia officials and academics had a leading role in the American 
>eugenics
>movement, which paralleled the Nazi drive for a super race. The U.S.
>Holocaust Memorial Museum has requested documents from Virginia as it
>prepares an exhibit in 2004 tentatively called "Nazi Race Science."
>
>The eugenics movement began in the United States at the beginning of the 
>20th
>century. Indiana passed the nation's first sterilization law based on
>eugenics in 1907. Over the next seven decades, government hospitals
>sterilized 60,000 men and women. Only California, with 20,000 
>sterilizations,
>had more than Virginia.
>
>Virginia passed its Eugenical Sterilization Act in 1924 -- which targeted
>"socially inadequate offspring" -- on the same day it passed the Racial
>Integrity Act prohibiting marriage between whites and nonwhites. Both grew
>out of eugenicists' drive for what they deemed a superior stock of humans.
>
>"Virginia eugenicists saw themselves as the vanguard of the future," said
>Gregory M. Dorr, a University of Alabama historian who studied Virginia's
>role in the eugenics movement.
>
>More than half of Virginia's sterilizations happened at the Virginia Colony
>for Epileptics and the Feebleminded in Lynchburg, though others happened at
>hospitals in Petersburg, Staunton, Williamsburg and Marion. Most victims 
>were
>white, but some African Americans and Indians also were sterilized,
>historians say.
>
>"People were sterilized not because they were feebleminded, but because 
>they
>were 'poor white trash,' " said Steven Selden, a University of Maryland
>professor who wrote a book on eugenics that was published last year.
>
>The U.S. Supreme Court upheld forced sterilization at the Lynchburg 
>facility
>in a case involving a woman named Carrie Buck, who had become pregnant as a
>teenager. In allowing her sterilization in 1927, Chief Justice Oliver 
>Wendell
>Holmes assessed Buck, her mother and her daughter, then declared, "Three
>generations of imbeciles are enough."
>
>A surge of sterilizations followed nationwide, tapering off when Nazi
>brutality in World War II turned public opinion against eugenics.
>
>"The Nazis took great comfort from the eugenics movement in America," said
>Paul A. Lombardo, a University of Virginia historian.
>
>Forced sterilizations continued on a very limited basis in Virginia until
>1979. Today's resolution calls on society to "reject absolutely any such
>abhorrent pseudo-scientific movement in the future."
>
>State lawmakers urged particular vigilance at a time when scientists are
>decoding the human genome and making possible far more profound 
>manipulation
>of genetic traits than envisioned by eugenicists during the last century.
>
>"We're tampering with DNA, with genes. And scientifically we're greatly
>advanced, but morally we have a problem," warned Del. Mitchell Van Yahres
>(D-Charlottesville), the resolution's sponsor. "We don't want to go down 
>that
>road again."
>
>A key supporter of House Resolution 607 was the chamber's top Republican,
>Speaker S. Vance Wilkins Jr., a veteran lawmaker from the small town of
>Amherst, just north of Lynchburg. He helped the resolution get past a
>reluctant committee this week.
>
>"It's the right thing to do," said Wilkins before today's session. "They're
>facts of history . . . and we shouldn't try to cover them up."
>
>Claude A. Allen, Virginia's secretary of health and human resources, said
>Gov. James S. Gilmore III's administration had taken no position on the
>eugenics resolution and is seeking a legal opinion on the threat of civil
>liability for the state before taking a stand. He said forced 
>sterilizations
>"clearly were atrocious."
>
>One Virginia victim of sterilization was Jesse Meadows. He was sent to the
>Lynchburg colony in 1940 after his mother died and his father remarried.
>Meadows was just 17. More than 60 years later, he can remember the names 
>and
>faces of the two doctors and the nurse who performed a vasectomy against 
>his
>will.
>
>Meadows married after leaving the facility and made a living as a house
>painter, but he could never have children. Now 78, he lives alone in
>Lynchburg, in the same neighborhood as several others who were sterilized 
>at
>the colony there.
>
>"They ought to apologize for doing something like that, treating them like
>animals," Meadows said. "They ruined a lot of people's lives."
>
>© 2001 The Washington Post Company
>--------------------------------------------------------
>For Va. coverage of this story see:
>http://www.timesdispatch.com/MGB37IFQQIC.html
>Richmond Virginia Times-Dispatch
>House 'regrets' eugenics
>Recognizes harm to 8,000 residents
>--------------------------------------------------
>For detailed info on eugenics and its realtionship to the Bush family see:
>http://Baltech.org/lederman/spray/
>
>Robert Lederman, President of A.R.T.I.S.T.
>(Artists’ Response To Illegal State Tactics)
>ARTISTpres@...  (718) 743-3722
>
>PLEASE FORWARD THIS ARTICLE WIDELY!!!

_________________________________________________________________
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Post ID:1002
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-03 23:54:18
Subject:Add this charge to the list...
Message:

X, Flavio, & co.-  Just to relate my account of the charge I am facing so 
that it will make it onto our list of grievances:  I was issued a summons 
for "obstruction of justice" (criminal, not misdemenor) by Officer Manish 
Shah.

This incident was that I ran out alone early election day (6am-ish) to try 
and help Joe, who we heard was in trouble with the cops from the kids.  I 
drove to the corner of Rensen and Seaman, I think, and parked, got out, and 
saw the squad car that was holding joe (for allegedly throwing something at 
a truck--he'll have to fill in those details) anyhow- I was abruptly told to 
get up against the car by cops standing across the street.  They searched 
me, acted tough, gave me the summons, and let me go.  So I waited around for 
joe, got his car off the back of a flat bed with Tammy, and then split.  
That's it.

The new venue for court appearance is Milltown, after we got it removed from 
NB for conflict of interest.  As it turned out, the prosecutor that I spoke 
with told me he was a witness in Joe's altercation with Kevin Jones later 
that day.  He wasn't interested in a plea bargain once he realized who I 
was.
_________________________________________________________________
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Post ID:1003
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-05 21:30:00
Subject:Fwd: Labnet: Abraham Lincoln Brigade Archives' George Watt Award
Message:

FYI college folk:

>
>++++++++++
>
>The Abraham Lincoln Brigade Archives (ALBA) is pleased to
>announce the continuing annual competition for the ALBA George
>Watt Memorial prizes for the best college student work about the
>Spanish Civil War, the anti-fascist political or cultural struggles of
>the 1920's and 1930's, or the lifetime histories and contributions of
>the Americans who served beside the Spanish Republic from 1937-
>1938.  This work may take the form of an essay, visual art, video or
>film, a dance, theatrical work or a musical composition. Two prizes
>of $500 each will be awarded each year-one to the best
>undergraduate work and one to the best graduate student work on
>one or  more of the above topics. Work will be judged on the basis
>of originality and effectiveness of argument or presentation. The
>work must have been created to fulfill an undergraduate or graduate
>course or degree requirement. Submissions are encouraged from
>U.S. and international contestants.
>
>The deadline for receipt of essays is April 1, 2001. Work produced
>either during the year of submission or during the previous calendar
>year are eligible for the competition. Essays must be at least 5,000
>words long to be considered for the prize. Works in the creative
>arts should be the result of at least one semester's work.
>Applicants should email entries to Eunice Lipton at:
>eunicelipton@.... Please be sure to include postal
>address. Audio cassettes, CDs, video tapes and slides should be
>sent to: Eunice Lipton, Chair of the George Watt Award
>Committee, c/o The Veterans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, 799
>Broadway, New York, NY 10003. Alert Ms Lipton my email that
>this has been done.
>
>The award winners will be announced each Spring. The Executive
>Committee of ALBA will appoint the judges for the contest.
>
>ALBA is a non-profit organization devoted to the preservation and
>dissemination of the record of the American role in the 1936-1939
>Spanish Civil War and itsaftermath. ALBA supervises a major
>archive at Brandeis University (the most comprehensive historical
>archive documenting the American involvement in the Spanish Civil
>War) and supports cultural and educational activities related to the
>war and its historical, political, artistic, and biographical heritage.
>Some 2,800 American men and women, realizing the danger
>international fascism presented to the world, came to the defense
>of the Spanish Republic in the years just prior to the Second World
>War. On the other side were forces led by rebel Spanish generals
>supported by Hitler and Mussolini.
>
>The prizes honor the memory of Abraham Lincoln Brigade veteran
>George Watt (1914-1994), not only for his own long anti-fascist
>record but also as a symbol of the many American men and
>women who risked, and sometimes lost, their lives in this struggle.
>Watt himself was a veteran of Spain who then served in the U.S.
>Army Corps in World War II. An effective voice for a variety of social
>causes inhis lifetime, Watt was also a driving force behind ALBA.
>
>++++++++++
>
>Labnet List is the discussion list of Labnet, the European network of 
>Labour Historians
>Labnet is moderated by Labmod@... at the International Institute of 
>Social History
>(Cruquiusweg 31, 1019 AT Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Tel +31.20.6685866, 
>Fax +31.20.6654181)
>To subscribe, send a mail containing the message SUBSCRIBE LABNET to 
>Listserv@...

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1004
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-06 10:55:50
Subject:NJSOA RECEPTION: ~TOOLS in WORKS of ART~
Message:

::::HELP GET THE WORD OUT:::::PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO YOUR EMAIL LISTS::::



With the help of the Asst. Dean, Jim Dyer, at the NJ School of 
Architecture(NJIT), I've had the privilege of helping to organize an exhibit 
of the artwork of Ujima Kuumba Majied, a lifelong Newark resident & one of 
NJIT's hard working custodians.  This exhibit is a testimony to the fact 
that many of the working people amongst us possess amazing and special 
talents that they are not often given the opportunity or room to express and 
share widely.  In opening the doors of this campus and its resources to an 
indigenous expression from the community, the NJIT body has gained an 
opportunity to learn and appreciate what the community around it really has 
to offer.

I have the honor of inviting one and all to the exhibit opening...please 
come and share this unique experience with us.

Thankyou,

Matthew Smith
Student of Architecture and Life


**************************OPENING RECEPTION*****************************


                          UJIMA KUUMBA MAJIED

                               presents:


                          MADAME C.J. WALKER

                       ~TOOLS in WORKS of ART~

                        and other expressions

                             ----------
                             SERIES ONE
                             ----------


                 Monday, February 12, 2001 at 6:30PM

                            NJSOA GALLERY

************************************************************************

             Directions to the NJSOA Architecture Building:

        (at the corner of MLK Jr. Blvd & Warren St. in Newark)

From the South, take TPK N to exit 14, to Rt 21 N to Market St, left, cross 
Broad St. intersection up hill, right onto MLK Jr. BLVD, past Essex County 
College, to Warren St. Look for Red brick and glass building on the left.
_________________________________________________________________
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Post ID:1005
Sender:xavier.hansen@...
Post Date/Time:2001-02-07 00:05:44
Subject:AGENDA FOR CAMPAIGN MEETING OF 2/10/01
Message:

PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN GENERAL MEETING

First a reminder to all that the People's Campaign is 
holding its general meeting this coming

SATURDAY FEBRUARY 10 at 2PM at the NEW BRUNSWICK PUBLIC 
LIBRARY (Livingston Ave.)

Below is the agenda proposed by the outgoing Steering 
Committee. 

Hope to see you there,

In unity,

Xavier

******************************************************

NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE�S CAMPAIGN

PROPOSED AGENDA FOR THE GENERAL MEETING OF 2-10-01

2:00PM 	Introduction by Zofia Nowakowski

2:10PM 	Approval of the Chair � Curtis Warren  
(alternative nominations can be proposed)

2:20PM 	Approval of the Agenda  -  (items may be added 
if supported by the majority)

2:30PM 	PROPOSALS BY THE STEERING COMMITTEE  

(See bottom of agenda for full text of proposals)

a) Fall 2001 Convention

 Move the Next Convention of the People�s Campaign to 
Fall 2001.

b) Open A People�s Campaign Center for Culture and 
Democracy in New Brunswick

Mobilize volunteers and resources to open a People�s 
Campaign Center for Culture and Democracy in New 
Brunswick in September of 2001.

3:00PM 	ELECTION OF NEW STEERING COMMITTEE

The People�s Campaign will elect SEVEN members AT LARGE 
to form a new Steering Committee responsible for leading 
the campaign and implementing the decisions of the 
membership between general meetings. The new Steering 
Committee will remain the leadership of the People�s 
Campaign until the next Convention when a new leadership 
will be elected. 

a) Nominations of candidates from the floor
b) One minute presentation by each candidate
c) Closing of nominations
d) 15 minute-break 	(�meet and greet� the candidates)
e) Election of seven candidates at large by secret 
ballot 

Each person can cast a vote for up to seven candidates. 
Any New Brunswick resident has the right to vote. Any 
People�s Campaign volunteer (regardless of residence) 
has the right to vote. 

[As we decided at the Convention of May 13, 2000, each 
caucus (Latino Committee, women�s caucus, student 
caucus, etc.) with at least 10 active Campaign members 
is entitled to elect one voting representative to join 
the seven at-large members in the Steering Committee. 
Active caucuses are expected hold elections for their 
voting representative at their next meeting.] 

4:15PM 	ADDITIONAL PROPOSALS AND TASKS OF THE CAMPAIGN

Proposals by the Women�s Caucus

Investigation Team and People�s Campaign Newspaper

********************************************************

PROPOSALS by the STEERING COMMITTEE (full text)

A) Move the Next Convention of the People�s Campaign to 
Fall 2001

To ensure maximum outreach and greater participation by 
the community, to consolidate and expand the broad 
alliance of democratic forces in the People�s Campaign 
in the months leading up to the Convention, to 
demonstrate our continued commitment to the empowerment 
of the New Brunswick community, and to raise the 
necessary funds to hold the event.


B) Mobilize volunteers and resources to open the 
People�s Campaign Center for Culture and Democracy in 
New Brunswick in September of 2001
	
Unite the People�s Campaign and raise the necessary 
funds to open a democratically-run, non-profit, 
cooperative center. Among the purposes of the center 
would be:

1) A headquarters to advance democracy and community 
control, promoting the platform of the People�s Campaign 
and supporting grassroots activities and programs that 
advance the points of the platform. 

2) A headquarters to strengthen the unity of democratic 
forces in the city, providing shared meeting space and 
resources to New Brunswick grassroots organizations that 
promote democracy and community control.

3) A headquarters to celebrate and promote the diverse 
cultures of the New Brunswick community, hosting 
grassroots cultural events and organizing to open public 
space throughout the city for cultural and political 
expression.

The People�s Campaign would form committees (Community 
Outreach, Small-Business Outreach, Campus Outreach, 
Cultural Events) to build support and raise money for 
the center throughout the city. The proposed target is 
$15,000 by September 2001, so that we can rent our first 
space in the heart of the community and continue to 
build upon it. The make-up of the center would be 
discussed and determined democratically at upcoming 
general meetings of the People�s Campaign.  






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1006
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-08 17:32:32
Subject:Benefit for Bernard White/Sharan Harper, WBAI
Message:

Sat Feb 10 2001

2pm

There will be a benefit fund raiser for Bernard White and Sharan Harper of Wake Up Call, WBAI at the Oberia Dempsey Center, 127 W 127th Street, Harlem, NY.  

Info 718-272-3840

Checks may be made payable to Bernard White or Sharan Harper.
591 Vanderbilt Ave.
Box 260
Brooklyn, NY 11238








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1007
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-09 10:57:18
Subject:GLOBAL WOMEN's and GIRLS' STRIKE
Message:

Thanks for your email about the Global Women's Strike.  Perhaps you'd like to come to one of our
organizing meetings where we are planning the NYC action.  We will be meeting on Thursdays
nights in the East Village (the address is below; the nearest subway is the Bleeker St. stop on
the 6 or Broadway/Lafayette on the 4,5,6,B,D,Q,F). 

If you'd like to speak before then, please feel free to call me at home at 212-666-0122. 

Thanks, 
Sandy 

---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

NYC Strike Committee for the 
Global Women's Strike 8 March 2001 
PO Box 739, Bronx NY 10454 
Tel: 212-229-7671   En Espaol: 718-292-6137 
E-MAIL: womenstrike8m@... 
WEBSITE: http://womenstrike8m.server101.com 
MEETINGS:  2nd, 3rd & 4th Thursdays, 7:30-9pm. 
Offices of the Women's International League for 
Peace & Freedom,  339 Lafayette Street, NYC. 

********************************************************************** 
                         2nd Global Women's Strike 
                  International Women's Day, 8 March 2001 

                                 STRIKE FOR: 
      A world which values all women's work & all women's lives. 
                An end to no pay, low pay & too much work. 

        12-2pm, NE corner of 39th Street & 7th Avenue:  Rally and 
         demonstration in the garment district, in coordination with 
         the 2-hour lunch break for women being endorsed by trade 
             unions in Philadelphia, Spain and the UK. 
********************************************************************** 

January 30, 2001 

Dear Supporter of Women's Rights, 

As you may know, we in NYC participated in the Global Women's Strike on March 8, 2000 with
leafletting downtown during lunch, holding a press conference the day before at the offices of a
lawyer representing victims of Pinochet's regime where we invited Phoebe Schellenberg from the
Philadelphia Strike Committee to join us, and celebrating the day at Brooklyn's The Rising Cafe
in the evening.  Plans are underway for GWS 2001 both here and around the world.  As a letter
from the strike committee in Philadelphia who are helping coordinate US strike activities said: 

"On March 8, 2000, women and girls in 64 countries on every continent took what time they could
from waged and unwaged work in the first-ever Global Strike -- giving women's answer to the
global market.  For the Market the production of things is prioritized over caring for people. 
But we acted together across national boundaries to prioritize caring work in 'a millennium
which values all women's work and all women's lives' and for 'an end to no pay, low pay and
overwork' that the Market imposes on us in every country.  The historic first Strike was a
triumph, and one we can build on. 


We are expecting even wider participation for the second Strike. Are you able to see the Strike
website?  It gives a broadening picture of what women achieved worldwide, ideas for actions and
for men's support and participation in the Strike.  Involved so far include: * CHAD - a human
rights group based at the offices of a disability organization and four sister organizations;
*COLOMBIA - actresses and women authors; *GHANA - women organizing translations into local
languages, others performing a play about domestic workers' pay; *HONDURAS - 500 women in a
rural region; *NORWAY - a resource center for Black, immigrant and refugee women; *IRELAND -
women plan picket to draw attention to the socio-economic gap between the women in power and
other women; *ARGENTINA & SPAIN -launched their Strike mobilization in October; *PERU - domestic
workers are asking their feminist employers for the day off; *ENGLAND - a GWS Caravan will take
to the road in November, visiting cities and towns across England, bringing Strike news from
other places and inviting local women to join in." 

Our plans for a strike and demonstration in NYC are outlined above and 
build on our actions and slogan of last year: "We're not out to lunch, 
we're out on strike!"  This idea has been furthered by the Wages for 
Housework Campaign (the group that coordinated the Strike in the US) in Philadelphia, which,
together with the Phila. Coalition of Labor Union Women and the Phila. and PA National
Organization for Women (NOW), is planning a 2-hour lunch break on March 8 against no pay and low
pay and for pay equity, with a speakout and rally at City Hall.  Some people are picking up on
the 2-hour lunch break against no pay and low pay and for pay equity.  As they wrote in Phila., 

"This speaks not only to those of us in waged work but also to those of us working full-time at
home, women on welfare, students, unwaged caregivers for children or those who are sick,
disabled, and elderly (as well as the unwaged work we do for ourselves), volunteers, women in
family businesses and family farms, activists on community, anti- 
globalization and other concerns, and many others!" 

Please let us know if you are planning a Strike activity, and how we might be able to help with
materials, publicity, contacts, etc.  We welcome your participation in the NYC Strike
Committee's meetings and activities and look forward to hearing back from you soon! 

Power to the Sisters to Stop the World and Change it, 

Sandy Opatow, NYC Strike Committee coordinator 
Nieves Ayress 
Maria Bauelos 
Susan Kirsch 

P.S. Do check out the Strike website.  Also, there are Strike 2001 T-shirts ($15 including
postage), and Strike 2000 t-shirts (on sale while they last for $7), buttons ($1), postcards
($.50) and stickers ($3 for a page of 10).  You can find these on the website, too






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1008
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-09 14:26:33
Subject:Opposition to Ashcroft Made History; Now We Need to Consolida te
Message:


>Opposition to Ashcroft Made History; Now We Need to Consolidate this
>Opposition
>
>[We didn't win, but we made a mark. The vast array of public forces -
>the labor movement, the civil rights movement, the women's movement,
>the independent political movement (outside of the two main parties,
>and even those still within the Democratic Party), and their allies
>made a mark on the country. We could not prevent Ashcroft's
>nomination, but we have re-grouped and are prepared to fight anew.
>Here is how one organization, People for the American Way, summarized
>the breath and extent of the anti-Ashcroft movement. Following that,
>is the commentary from Ted Glick , Ashcroft, Racism and the Democrats.
>-Moderator]
>
>
>======================================================================
>Oppose Ashcroft Update http://www.opposeashcroft.com
>
>Alert Date: February 1, 2001  --  Circulate Until: February 10, 2001
>
>        YOU MADE HISTORY!
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>
>IN THIS ALERT (1) You Made History! (2) The Real Deal! (3) Keeping an
>Eye on George W. Bush (4) Please Support Our Efforts (5) About Us /
>Subscription Information
>______________________________________________________________________
>
>(1) YOU MADE HISTORY!
>
>Well, the campaign to defeat John Ashcroft for US Attorney General has
>come to a close. If you signed the petition, wrote and called your
>Senators and/or phone banked at our offices, you were part of a
>campaign that made history.  We do not believe that John Ashcroft is
>the right person for the job of Attorney General.  While in the end we
>failed to defeat the nomination, we did achieve some important
>objectives:
>
>*When the campaign started, pundits and journalists alike predicted
>the Ashcroft would sail through the confirmation process.  Today he
>was confirmed by a margin of only eight votes.
>
>*Senate opposition to John Ashcroft was a record high for votes cast
>against a cabinet nominee who was confirmed. In 1985, 31 Senators
>opposed the confirmation of Attorney General nominee Ed Meese.
>
>*We estimate that there were well over a million contacts made with
>Senators opposing Ashcroft's nomination.  You weren't alone!  Almost
>a quarter of a million petitions were signed and delivered to the
>United States Senate from OpposeAshcroft.com alone.
>
>*Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) announced her opposition to Ashcroft's
>confirmation the day after she received almost 30,000 of your
>petitions!
>
>*This campaign has helped us pull together a progressive movement
>that will be a political force throughout the nation.
>
>*You helped send a clear message to George W. Bush: whenever the
>Bush administration attempts to turn back the clock on fundamental
>rights and freedoms, we will stand up and fight.  AND right-wing
>nominees to the Supreme Court will NOT be confirmed.
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>
>(2) THE REAL DEAL!
>
>We are not making these numbers up, or "spinning" them -- we don't
>need to.  You signed 232,528 petitions in less than 3 weeks.  What
>follows is the breakdown by state:
>
>          AK: 520        AL: 808        AR: 762        AZ: 3,365
>          CA: 49,425     CO: 4,798      CT: 4,592      DC: 2,280
>          DE: 494        FL: 10,438     GA: 4,366      HI: 816
>          IA: 1,159      ID: 533        IL: 10,130     IN: 2,110
>          KS: 1,412      KY: 1,380      LA: 1,331      MA: 10,913
>          MD: 5,798      ME: 1,870      MI: 4,730      MN: 3,570
>          MO: 4,344      MS: 254        MT: 499        NC: 4,433
>          ND: 172        NE: 647        NH: 1,293      NJ: 7,666
>          NM: 1,828      NV: 846        NY: 30,412     OH: 4,826
>          OK: 884        OR: 5,085      PA: 8,210      RI: 899
>          SC: 1,057      SD: 191        TN: 2,377      TX: 8,488
>          UT: 720        VA: 5,654      VT: 1,675      WA: 8,841
>          WI: 2,919      WV: 474        WY: 234
>
>  To learn more about our analysis of the final vote, please visit:
>
>       http://www.pfaw.org/news/press//show.cgi?article=981057563
>       ________________________________________________________________
>       _____
>
>(3) KEEPING AN EYE ON GEORGE W. BUSH
>
>George W. Bush promised to be a "uniter, not a divider."  People For
>the American Way plans to hold him accountable for that promise. We
>will examine the decisions he makes as President of the United States.
>We will call on your support to monitor and take action against
>policies and decisions that will curtail our individual freedoms and
>liberties. Please look out for future emails from us, and help us
>build a future that respects the rights of all Americans. In the mean
>time...
>
>THANK YOU FOR TAKING ACTION!
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>
>(4) PLEASE SUPPORT OUR EFFORTS -- JOIN PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY
>
>People For the American Way depends on the support of individuals like
>you. Join us today and know that you are helping to keep alive the
>true American spirit: tolerance, free speech, protection for
>minorities, equal opportunity, and freedom for all religious faiths
>without government intrusion.
>
>To become a member of People For the American Way, please call
>1-800-326-7329 or go to:
>
>     https://secure.pfaw.org/join/
>
>Donations to People For the American Way are not tax-deductible as
>charitable contributions or as business expenses under IRC Sec.
>162(e).
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>
>(5) ABOUT PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY / SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION
>
>People For the American Way organizes and mobilizes Americans to fight
>for fairness, justice, civil rights and the freedoms guaranteed by the
>Constitution. PFAW monitors the Religious Right at the local, state
>and national levels, lobbies for progressive legislation, and helps
>build communities of activists.
>
>To join our email Activist Network, please go to:
>
>       http://www.pfaw.org/activist/
>
>  You received this email because you signed the petition at
>  http://www.opposeashcroft.com and indicated you would like to stay
>  informed. If you do not wish to receive these alerts, please send us
>  an email at webmaster@... and we'll change your
>  settings.
>
>  =====================================================================
>  = People For the American Way 2000 M Street, NW  |  Suite 400  |
>  Washington, DC 20036 http://www.pfaw.org  |  pfaw@... 1-800-326-
>  PFAW  |  202/467-4999
>
>======================================================================
>
>Ashcroft, Racism and the Democrats
>
>
>Future Hope column, February 4, 2001
>
>Ashcroft, Racism and the Democrats
>
>By Ted Glick
>
>John Ashcroft may be Attorney-General, but Senate Democrats are proud
>that they have "sent a message" to President-Select Bush and his
>Republican partners-in-crime by their 42 votes in opposition, one more
>than needed to keep a filibuster going. 42 votes that, on an
>immediate, practical level, mean nothing, really.
>It's ironic. One plus 41 equals 42.
>
>There was not one--not one!--U.S. Senator willing to support the dozen
>or so members of the Congressional Black Caucus who had the courage to
>buck the system and challenge the official selection of Bush as
>President by the electoral college. If only one had done so, for a
>brief period of time, the illegitimacy of the Bush regime would have
>been exposed through debate in the halls of Congress. But there was
>NOT ONE!
>
>There were, however, 41 bullets fired by four, white NYPD police
>officers two years ago today at an unarmed African immigrant, Amadou
>Diallo, standing in the vestibule of his home in the South Bronx.
>One plus 41 equals 42, and here's the real problem: not only is Bush
>the President and Ashcroft the Attorney-General and Amadou Diallo
>dead; the killers of Diallo were acquited of all charges by a criminal
>justice system that, as experienced by black, brown and red people in
>the United States, is riddled, cancer-like, with racism. After all,
>close to three quarters of the two million people in prison or jail--
>the highest rate of any country in the entire world--are black or
>brown, despite being about 25% of the population.
>
>Think about it. Especially if you're a white person: think about it,
>please.
>
>I've just returned from a rally in the Bronx in front of 1157 Wheeler
>Avenue, the late Amadou Diallo's home. There were a number of good
>things about the rally, but I and others there were not happy about
>the proliferation of Democratic Party politicians who spoke. At one
>point, New York City Comptroller and Mayoral candidate Alan Hevesi, an
>establishment Democrat from way back, was prevented from speaking by
>the boos from the crowd after he said, "Most police are decent
>people." I never heard another word that he tried to say over the
>loudspeaker before he left the stage about five minutes later.
>
>Most white people, including progressive white people, probably agree
>with Hevesi. As experienced by most white people, what Hevesi said is
>pretty true. But because of "the wall between," as Anne Braden has
>described the wall of racism and white supremacy, there is far too
>much white ignorance of how the police and criminal justice system are
>experienced by communities of color. It is truly as if we are living
>in different countries.
>
>It's really a form of social pathology, this denial of racism. As
>another example, here's what nationally-syndicated, liberal columnist
>John Farmer had to say about Ashcroft and his racism, in a Jan. 8th
>column as carried in the Newark, N.J. Star-Ledger: "Less well-known is
>Ashcroft's opposition to a voluntary desegregation of St. Louis
>schools. Or his honorary degree from South Carolina's Bob Jones
>University--a hotbed of anti-black and anti-Catholic bile. Then there
>are his laudatory comments about the Old Confederacy in 'Southern
>Partisan,' a magazine nostalgic for the rebel past. None of this
>warrants labeling Ashcroft a racist, as some liberals do."
>
>I guess for John Farmer, you're not a racist unless you're a leader of
>the Ku Klux Klan, John Birch Society or their ilk. His moderation in
>defense of racism is all too typical of those in the corporate media
>and those in leadership of the two corporate parties. Which brings me
>back to the 42 Senate Democrats who voted against Ashcroft.
>
>There were this many votes primarily because of the groundswell of
>independent, grassroots pressure which forced most Senate Democrats to
>take the stands which they did. This grassroots movement was composed
>of liberal and progressive Democrats and liberal and progressive
>independents. Some of these people were at each other's political
>throats two months before in bitter debate over whether Nader or Gore
>was the correct Presidential choice.
>
>A good chunk--not all, certainly, but a significant percentage--of
>this grassroots movement has an understanding on some level about the
>pernicious and destructive nature of racism and the need to oppose it.
>And it is relatively united on a range of other issues. It is
>essential that we actively search for ways to continue working
>together in the future, which has to mean that we do so in a way which
>recognizes both the commonalities on issues and the differences when
>it comes to longer-range political strategy. If we do this, if we do
>it with explicit and conscious anti-racism at its center, then there
>is reason to believe that these four years under Bush could see the
>emergence of a powerful, multi-racial, independent movement with
>significant leadership from African Americans/people of color, as this
>country experienced during the 1980s with the Rainbow movement.
>
>Absent such a development, Senate Democrats and House Democrats cannot
>be trusted to do the right thing. Absent such a movement, forget their
>having the intestinal fortitude to conduct needed filibusters. But
>with such a movement, there is hope, real hope for this country, not
>just in the short term under Republican rule but in the urgent task of
>saving this earth and the possibility of true democracy, with justice
>and freedom for all.
>
>Ted Glick is National Coordinator of the Independent Progressive
>Politics Network (www.ippn.org) and author of Future Hope: A Winning
>Strategy for a Just Society. He can be reached at futurehopeTG@...
>or P.O. Box 1132, Bloomfield, N.J. 07003.
>
>__________________________________________________________________
>Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at
>http://webmail.netscape.com/
>
>
>portside (the left side in nautical parlance) is a news, discussion and
>debate service of the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and
>Socialism. It aims to provide varied material of interest to people on the
>left.
>
>Post message : portside@egroups.com
>Subscribe    : portside-subscribe@egroups.com
>Unsubscribe  : portside-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>List owner   : portside-owner@egroups.com
>Web address  : http://www.egroups.com/group/portside
>Digest mode  : visit Web site

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Post ID:1009
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-13 14:44:45
Subject:I may have sent you a virus. Please read this.
Message:

hi everyone: i am sending this to everyone in my address book. we were 
infected with a virus here at work, and it possible that the virus grabbed 
on to my address book. Please read my colleague's message below, as it is my 
warning to you.

blast these viruses!

sorry if this has inconvenienced you,
Kristina

>
>Friends,
>
>I just received a virus titled: here you have :o).  It has an attached file
>"Annakornikova.jpeg.vbs."  Don't open it.  It immediately begins sending
>copies of itself to all the addresses in my e-mail contacts list.  Don't
>open it and delete the file as soon as possible.  I don't know if it does
>any additional damage.  I'm really sorry, folks.
>
>Kate Pfordresher
>DC 37 Research and Negotiations

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Post ID:1010
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-13 22:46:54
Subject:Fwd: Candidates for NYC Mayor at GC
Message:

>For the First Time the PSC-CUNY
>will sponsor a forum for all union members
>(and friends of course)to participate interviewing
>the four people who want to run for
>NYC Mayor.
>
>The Forum is here at the Grad Center
>
>February 15th
>at the CUNY Graduate Center
>
>Four candidates for NYC Mayor
>will present their goals for
>the city--and CUNY--and respond
>to questions from the audience.
>
>CONFIRMED SPEAKERS ARE:
>Fernando Ferrer, Bronx Borough President
>Mark Green, NYC Public Advocate
>Alan Hevesi, NYC Comptroller
>Peter Vallone, Speaker of the City Council
>
>The event begins at 6 p.m. Each candidate
>will have 45 minutes: roughly 20 to 25 for
>a presentation and 25 to 20 minutes to
>respond to questions.
>
>further information available on the
>psc website:
>www.psc-cuny.org
>
>Chris Cage
>Director, Public Relations
>PSC

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Post ID:1011
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-14 10:35:20
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] STRATEGY & PROGRAM MEETING WED. FEB. 14, 7PM Maplewood
Message:



>From: siddharta5@...
>To: FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] STRATEGY & PROGRAM MEETING WED. FEB. 14, 7PM 
>Maplewood
>Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:23:16 -0000
>
>To: Participants, Concerned Friends of WBAI - New Jersey
>From Bob Bender
>
>Re: Proposal for Guidelines and Action by our group
>
>February 13, 2001
>
>Our Interim Steering Committee - E. Belvin Williams, Judy White and
>Howard Nelson - presented Proposals at our February 4 General Meeting.
>We are all indebted to them. The February 4 body extracted  "What We
>Favor", below and adopted it.  We now should consider further
>self-definition and a proposed program through June.
>
>EVERYONE IS INVITED TO A MEETING TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES  HERE -
>STRATEGY AND PROGRAM -  WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 7 P.M., Ethical
>Culture Society of Essex County, 516 Prospect Street, Maplewood.  What
>emerges will be presented at our general meeting on February 21.
>
>What follows is my reformulation and revision of the prior
>recommendations:
>
>Mission for Concerned Friends of WBAI - New Jersey:  To bring about a
>listener-sponsored, commercial-free station which has reasonable local
>autonomy and which operates with a  democratically selected Local
>Advisory Board.
>
>Statement of Principles - those proposed previously:
>
>1. Our behavior is to be governed by the Platinum Rule: Knowingly, Do
>No Harm.  Common decency and civility are our watchwords.
>
>2. Personal attacks are forbidden.  Explain your reasons for critique
>in support of or in opposition to another's ideas.
>
>3. When stating your position, present your supporting reasoning and
>evidence.  Allow others to do likewise. Listen to yourself and others.
>
>4. Prioritize, emphasize, justify and consider likely consequences of
>recommendations.
>
>5. Our group acts as an impatient democracy.  Your participation is
>essential to prevent elitism and for consideration of new ideas.  All
>group members have a right to speak for a fair amount of time on the
>subjects under consideration.  Time will be made available for
>consideration of "new business".
>
>6.  When all else fails, Roberts'Rules of Order will govern meeting
>procedure.
>
>What We Favor:  the principles and calls to action in the "Statement
>of the Concerned Friends of WBAI, adopted by Concerned Friends 1/11/01
>and by CF-NJ 2/4/01, and that adopted by the WBAI shop of the
>Amalgamated UE Local 404 at its 1/18/01 meeting. (Adopted at our
>February 4 meeting)
>
>Short Range Objectives:
>
>1.  Promote boycott of current WBAI fundraiser
>and channeling of contributions to other groups consistent with our
>mission.
>
>2. Work toward a democratic process involving paid and unpaid staff,
>listeners and Local Advisory Board members to determine the management
>of WBAI and toward a democratically elected Local Advisory Board.
>
>3. Support the current lawsuits against the Pacifica National Board.
>
>Short Range Program (through June 30, 2001):
>
>1. Demonstrate against Epstein Becker Green law firm in Newark on
>February 20. Conduct public meeting in early March about the status of
>the National Pacifica Board.
>
>2. Continue organizational development - increasing outreach,
>contacts, means of communication, fundraising.
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

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Post ID:1012
Sender:"Audrey Allred" <audreya99@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-15 12:11:19
Subject:Fwd: [starc-rutgers] Join the New Brunswick Community Street-Cleaning Brigade!!
Message:



From: "Diane Krauthamer" <skankin9@...>
Reply-To: starc-rutgers@yahoogroups.com
To: studentactionunion@egroups.com, nfjo@egroups.com, 
peoplescampaign@egroups.com, nj-add@egroups.com, nbfoodnotbombs@egroups.com, 
rugreens@egroups.com, starc-rutgers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [starc-rutgers] Join the New Brunswick Community Street-Cleaning 
Brigade!!
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:12:16

~~~~~Please circulate this important news far and wide, via email
 >and word of mouth~~~~~
     SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 11 AM ----- COMMUNITY DEMONSTRATION!!!
     What do George Street and Devco have in common? They are both
located in New Brunswick, and they are both very dirty!

    Join the New Brunswick Community Street-Cleaning Brigade at 11
AM on Sunday morning as we, equipped with surgical gloves and trash
bags, clean the trash and filth from George Street. We will show
Devco that we don't need its violent, undemocratic redevelopment in
order for  our city to be clean!

    The street-cleaning will begin at 11 AM on Sunday, February 18.
We will meet at the fountain at the intersection between George
Street and Livingston Avenue. After the street-cleaning, we will
hold a peaceful demonstration at the headquarters of Devco, to
symbolize their corruption, dirtiness and brutal disregard for the
well-being of the residents of New Brunswick.

     Why are we protesting Devco? We are protesting Devco because it
is a corporation controlled by Johnson & Johnson, and for 20 years
it has been conspiring to take control of downtown New Brunswick. >Numerous
locally owned businesses have been bought out or shut down
by Devco to make way for the uniformity of corporate chain stores. >The
loyal residents of Section 8 Housing are being viciously
expelled from the city, and their houses destroyed, to make way for
upper-income apartment complexes. Last year Devco shut down and
fenced in a treasured community garden on George St. We will resist
the commercialization of our city and the destruction of our
community!

     So, join us at the fountain at 11 AM on Sunday, as we catalyze a
movement for the democratic development of our city that benefits >all of
its residents, not only the rich and the corporations. We
will not rest until every citizen can have free, equal, and direct
participation in the development of our city!

     -- Signed --
     The New Brunswick Community Street-Cleaning Brigade


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1013
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-15 15:41:57
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Just talked to Amy
Message:



>From: Sheila Hamanaka <Sheilahamanaka@...>
>To: rockland friends of wbai <rocklandfriendsofwbai@yahoogroups.com>, NJ 
>friends of wbai <FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Just talked to Amy
>Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:37:54 -0500
>
>WE ARE TRANSMITTING A MESSAGE FROM OUR FRIENDS FROM ROCKLAND.
>
>Sheila Hamanaka manages a free access Concerned Friends Group where all can 
>comment.  The Rockland Group is smaller and is more discussion oriented.  
>We encourage our members to log on to the group page to get up to the 
>minute news from the struggle at hand.  Thank you Sheila Hamanaka 
><Sheilahamanaka@...>.  The Rockland CF URL is 
>groups.yahoo.com/group/rocklandfriendsofwbai.  And now for the message...
>================================================================================
>
>Thursday 10:07 am
>
>     I called the station to find out what happened to Democracy Now and
>the volunteer said "it's airing nationally" and "go on the internet"
>
>     I said "I went to the Pacifica site and the only show they're airing
>is yesterday's show."
>
>     She said Amy was there, in the room and I asked to speak to her.
>
>     I asked Amy what why they weren't airing the show in NY and she said
>I'd have to ask Utrice (and another fellow I forget his name). I said
>they announced they often take Democracy Now off for fund drives and she
>said no they never do. I told her we would call in to protest.
>
>     SO PLEASE CALL THE STATION TO PROTEST. THE FUND DRIVE # IS
>212-209-2950
>
>
>PS    radio kankaan host d. faye is the fellow on the air who pre-empted
>Amy.
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

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Post ID:1014
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-15 16:44:02
Subject:Fwd: Job Posting for Essex,Hudson, Morris Union County Researchers
Message:

Please forward to all interested.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1015
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-14 23:51:27
Subject:youth program
Message:

Hi everyone

We are having a meeting about the New Brunswick People's Campaign youth 
program on Wednesday February 21 at Louise's
house at 7:30. (136 Baldwin St, two blocks from the corner of livingston 
ave, 2nd floor. If you need directions or a ride call me
at 545-7207.)

Some things we would like to discuss are the tasks necessary to keep the day 
to day aspects of the program going, as well as a
general plan for the future direction of the program, both theoretically and 
practically (which of course are very connected).
Please come with all your ideas.

Hope to see you there.

Louise & Sam
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Post ID:1016
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-14 10:37:40
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] C.F.WBAI-NJ 2/7 & 2/11 Meeting Minutes & Budget
Message:



>From: siddharta5@...
>To: FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] C.F.WBAI-NJ 2/7 & 2/11 Meeting Minutes & Budget
>Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 21:48:21 -0000
>
>Friends,
>
>These are minutes and budget for our group.  Your questions, comments
>and assistance are in order.  Please also examine part 2 which
>outlines the budget.  We are trying to defray costs and any donations
>of services or of funds will offset future fund raising.
>=====================================================================
>Concerned Friends of WBAI - New Jersey - Decisions and Notes,
>Meetings February 7 and 11, 2001
>
>Main Decisions (and some updates):
>
>I. Pledging/Contributing: At the February 7 meeting, the body
>reviewed the/a current draft from CF, and resolved the following for
>us:
>
>     A. Contributions and Unconditional Pledges to WBAI should be
>withheld until all demands outlined in the Conditional Pledge are met
>
>     B. Conditional Pledge forms should be submitted to CF. These are
>to be mailed out centrally by CF. Note:  I was informed by phone on
>February 12 that some forms may have been mailed out in error.  They
>are being recalled.
>
>     C. The central mailing will also list several  organizations
>which are soliciting funds, including CF.
>
>UPSHOT: THINGS ARE STILL IN FLUX.  AWAIT FURTHER GUIDANCE.
>
>II. FEBRUARY 20 DEMONSTRATION AT NEWARK OFFICE OF EPSTEIN BECKER
>GREEN, GATEWAY ONE NEWARK -4:30 - 7 P.M.  This is coordinated with
>the
>New York demo - coordinator:  Steve Bernhaut - SBernhaut@... -
>various specific assignments made - leaflets, distributions
>
>III. ADOPTION OF FISCAL POLICIES AND BUDGET FOR PERIOD 1/1/01 -
>3/31/01- to be available via Fred's yahoo group mechanism
>
>IV. NAME AND ORGANIZATIONAL FORM: CONCERNED FRIENDS OF WBAI - NEW
>JERSEY (as of now, subject to change with other groups,
>circumstances) Unincorporated.  Independent affiliate of Concerned
>Friends.
>
>Other Decisions and Discussion
>
>V. Finances: We want to reimburse expenditures made on our behalf,
>including Paul Surovell's $260 for initial 800 piece mailing.  Paul
>will seek a contribution toward this from CF.  Hetty Rosenstein is
>leading an effort to secure organizational endorsements and
>donations, in cash and in-kind from unions.  The need for organized
>fundraising was reiterated several times. (The budget specifies
>contributions at meetings and subscriptions - 60 people @$20 for our
>expeneses through 3/31/01). Treasurer Rosa Federico suggested writing
>for the contributions.  She, Bob Bender, Fred Nguyen and Terri Suess
>will be account signators and Finance Committee.
>
>VI. Communications Committee - Fred Nguyen established a Yahoo group
>FRIENDSWBAINJ - URL is GROUPS.YAHOO.COM/GROUP/FRIENSWBAINJ. Fred and
>Paul Suvorell are setting up a phone tree. Decision was that mailings
>should now go only to those without email. Everyone will be on the
>phone tree.
>
>VII.  Legal Representation.  Newark labor attorney Bennett Zurofsky
>agreed to advise us.  Joe Fortunado, Montclair attorney, agreed to
>observe at the demonstration.  Bennett will leave the demo at 6 p.m.
>
>VIII Media Group is functioning - Contact Gus Menezes -
>Gusphoto@.... Organizer of Outreach/Membership Group:  Diane
>Beeny-908-233-7344
>
>VII Other and Related Events:  Sign-making party for demo - this
>Friday, Feb 16 ,6 p.m., home of Peggy Waldman, 16 Sage Drive, Warren
>Twsp - 908-647-2968.
>
>  Our next working meeting - open to all - is Wednesday, February 21,
>7 p.m., Ethical Culture Society of Essex County, 516 Prospect Street,
>Maplewood. Hopefully will have updated report from Strategy and
>Program Committee.
>
>Friday, March 2, 7:15 p.m. -Video on/by KPFA - Berkeley providing
>background on Pacifica, the struggle at Berkeley, and particular
>attention to the elected Local Advisory Board - all welcome
>-sponsored by the Ethical Culture Social Action Committee - 516
>Prospect Street, Maplewood
>
>Sunday, March 11, 3 p.m. TENTATIVE - Dissident Pacifica National
>Board member Leslie Cagan reports back on the PNB situation -maybe
>with others.
>
>Recorders/Reporters:  Fred Nguyen, Bob Bender
>=====================================================================
>FISCAL POLICIES, NJ CONCERNED FRIENDS OF WBAI- NEW JERSEY - ADOPTED
>2/11/01
>
>1.  Receipts. All receipts shall be forwarded immediately to the
>treasurer for deposit into an organizational account.  Amounts
>collected at public events shall be counted by someone other than the
>Treasurer with amounts listed in the minutes of that event
>
>2.  Expenditures:
>
>     a. Budgeted expenditures may be approved by the person in charge
>of the project or activity.
>
>     b.  General expenditures should be approved prior to
>authorization at a general or appropriate organizational meeting.
>
>     c.  Emergency expenditures of no more than $150  may be
>authorized by the Treasurer and one other responsible organizational
>principal.
>
>     d. Signatures of 2 responsible organizational representatives
>shall be required for checks more than $200.
>
>3.  Reporting.  For each general meeting the treasurer shall present
>a report itemizing receipts and expenditures.
>
>4.  Reconciliation of monthly bank statements shall be performed by
>someone other than the Treasurer.
>
>5.  Budget.  The Organization shall adopt a budget for the relevant
>period, initially presumably a quite short period, which shall be
>presented for consideration at a general meeting, with prior
>circularization at least by email strongly recommended.
>
>  Initial Budget - for period January 15 - March 31, 2001 - adopted
>2/11/01
>
>Events:  2 General Public Meetings - (one held Feb 4), 5 planning and
>decision-making meetings, 4 committee meetings, one demonstration
>
>Expenditures
>
>Mailings - postage and reproduction             $600
>
>Reproduction - information, agendas, fliers     $400
>
>Signs, other supplies                           $100
>
>Room Rentals                                    $200
>
>Refreshments for Meetings                        $75
>
>Miscellaneous                                   $200
>
>Media Expenses                                  $250
>
>Program, Other                                  $300
>
>TOTAL EXPENDITURES                              $2125
>
>
>RECEIPTS
>
>Collections at meetings                         $800
>
>Assessments - 60 people @$20                    $1200
>
>TOTAL RECEIPTS                                  $2000
>=====================================================================
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1017
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-16 09:40:01
Subject:Attachment this time - Job Posting
Message:

Job Posting for Essex, Hudson, Morris, Union Researchers



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1018
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-16 10:26:10
Subject:youth meeting change
Message:

Hi

Due to the fact that a lot of people could not make the wednesday meeting, 
we have changed the meeting for the People's Campaign youth program to 
Friday Feb 23 at 7pm at the same place (see below). Hope this time is better 
for people.

Louise

(meeting address: 136 Baldwin St, two blocks from the corner of livingston 
ave, 2nd floor. If you need directions or a ride call me
at 545-7207.)
>
>Some things we would like to discuss are the tasks necessary to keep the 
>day to day aspects of the program going, as well as a
>general plan for the future direction of the program, both theoretically 
>and practically (which of course are very connected).
>Please come with all your ideas.
>
>Hope to see you there.
>
>Louise & Sam
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1019
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-16 10:56:57
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Just talked to Amy
Message:

matt,

before I call BAI, I want to be clear on what's going on: so they've taken 
democracy now! off the air? I realized that I hadn't heard it in the past 
few mornings (and instead heard Utrice's annoying condescending voice), but 
didn't make the connection... can you confirm?

kristina


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Just talked to Amy
>Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 20:41:57
>
>
>
>
> >From: Sheila Hamanaka <Sheilahamanaka@...>
> >To: rockland friends of wbai <rocklandfriendsofwbai@yahoogroups.com>, NJ
> >friends of wbai <FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Just talked to Amy
> >Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:37:54 -0500
> >
> >WE ARE TRANSMITTING A MESSAGE FROM OUR FRIENDS FROM ROCKLAND.
> >
> >Sheila Hamanaka manages a free access Concerned Friends Group where all 
>can
> >comment.  The Rockland Group is smaller and is more discussion oriented.
> >We encourage our members to log on to the group page to get up to the
> >minute news from the struggle at hand.  Thank you Sheila Hamanaka
> ><Sheilahamanaka@...>.  The Rockland CF URL is
> >groups.yahoo.com/group/rocklandfriendsofwbai.  And now for the message...
> >================================================================================
> >
> >Thursday 10:07 am
> >
> >     I called the station to find out what happened to Democracy Now and
> >the volunteer said "it's airing nationally" and "go on the internet"
> >
> >     I said "I went to the Pacifica site and the only show they're airing
> >is yesterday's show."
> >
> >     She said Amy was there, in the room and I asked to speak to her.
> >
> >     I asked Amy what why they weren't airing the show in NY and she said
> >I'd have to ask Utrice (and another fellow I forget his name). I said
> >they announced they often take Democracy Now off for fund drives and she
> >said no they never do. I told her we would call in to protest.
> >
> >     SO PLEASE CALL THE STATION TO PROTEST. THE FUND DRIVE # IS
> >212-209-2950
> >
> >
> >PS    radio kankaan host d. faye is the fellow on the air who pre-empted
> >Amy.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1020
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-16 11:03:27
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] C.F.WBAI-NJ 2/7 & 2/11 Meeting Minutes & Budget
Message:

what are people's thoughts on withholding their membership contributions to 
BAI? I'm up for renewing, but have been confused by conflicting suggestions 
as to what to do... is there an alternative fund set up?


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] C.F.WBAI-NJ 2/7 & 2/11 Meeting Minutes 
>& Budget
>Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:37:40
>
>
>
>
> >From: siddharta5@...
> >To: FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] C.F.WBAI-NJ 2/7 & 2/11 Meeting Minutes & Budget
> >Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 21:48:21 -0000
> >
> >Friends,
> >
> >These are minutes and budget for our group.  Your questions, comments
> >and assistance are in order.  Please also examine part 2 which
> >outlines the budget.  We are trying to defray costs and any donations
> >of services or of funds will offset future fund raising.
> >=====================================================================
> >Concerned Friends of WBAI - New Jersey - Decisions and Notes,
> >Meetings February 7 and 11, 2001
> >
> >Main Decisions (and some updates):
> >
> >I. Pledging/Contributing: At the February 7 meeting, the body
> >reviewed the/a current draft from CF, and resolved the following for
> >us:
> >
> >     A. Contributions and Unconditional Pledges to WBAI should be
> >withheld until all demands outlined in the Conditional Pledge are met
> >
> >     B. Conditional Pledge forms should be submitted to CF. These are
> >to be mailed out centrally by CF. Note:  I was informed by phone on
> >February 12 that some forms may have been mailed out in error.  They
> >are being recalled.
> >
> >     C. The central mailing will also list several  organizations
> >which are soliciting funds, including CF.
> >
> >UPSHOT: THINGS ARE STILL IN FLUX.  AWAIT FURTHER GUIDANCE.
> >
> >II. FEBRUARY 20 DEMONSTRATION AT NEWARK OFFICE OF EPSTEIN BECKER
> >GREEN, GATEWAY ONE NEWARK -4:30 - 7 P.M.  This is coordinated with
> >the
> >New York demo - coordinator:  Steve Bernhaut - SBernhaut@... -
> >various specific assignments made - leaflets, distributions
> >
> >III. ADOPTION OF FISCAL POLICIES AND BUDGET FOR PERIOD 1/1/01 -
> >3/31/01- to be available via Fred's yahoo group mechanism
> >
> >IV. NAME AND ORGANIZATIONAL FORM: CONCERNED FRIENDS OF WBAI - NEW
> >JERSEY (as of now, subject to change with other groups,
> >circumstances) Unincorporated.  Independent affiliate of Concerned
> >Friends.
> >
> >Other Decisions and Discussion
> >
> >V. Finances: We want to reimburse expenditures made on our behalf,
> >including Paul Surovell's $260 for initial 800 piece mailing.  Paul
> >will seek a contribution toward this from CF.  Hetty Rosenstein is
> >leading an effort to secure organizational endorsements and
> >donations, in cash and in-kind from unions.  The need for organized
> >fundraising was reiterated several times. (The budget specifies
> >contributions at meetings and subscriptions - 60 people @$20 for our
> >expeneses through 3/31/01). Treasurer Rosa Federico suggested writing
> >for the contributions.  She, Bob Bender, Fred Nguyen and Terri Suess
> >will be account signators and Finance Committee.
> >
> >VI. Communications Committee - Fred Nguyen established a Yahoo group
> >FRIENDSWBAINJ - URL is GROUPS.YAHOO.COM/GROUP/FRIENSWBAINJ. Fred and
> >Paul Suvorell are setting up a phone tree. Decision was that mailings
> >should now go only to those without email. Everyone will be on the
> >phone tree.
> >
> >VII.  Legal Representation.  Newark labor attorney Bennett Zurofsky
> >agreed to advise us.  Joe Fortunado, Montclair attorney, agreed to
> >observe at the demonstration.  Bennett will leave the demo at 6 p.m.
> >
> >VIII Media Group is functioning - Contact Gus Menezes -
> >Gusphoto@.... Organizer of Outreach/Membership Group:  Diane
> >Beeny-908-233-7344
> >
> >VII Other and Related Events:  Sign-making party for demo - this
> >Friday, Feb 16 ,6 p.m., home of Peggy Waldman, 16 Sage Drive, Warren
> >Twsp - 908-647-2968.
> >
> >  Our next working meeting - open to all - is Wednesday, February 21,
> >7 p.m., Ethical Culture Society of Essex County, 516 Prospect Street,
> >Maplewood. Hopefully will have updated report from Strategy and
> >Program Committee.
> >
> >Friday, March 2, 7:15 p.m. -Video on/by KPFA - Berkeley providing
> >background on Pacifica, the struggle at Berkeley, and particular
> >attention to the elected Local Advisory Board - all welcome
> >-sponsored by the Ethical Culture Social Action Committee - 516
> >Prospect Street, Maplewood
> >
> >Sunday, March 11, 3 p.m. TENTATIVE - Dissident Pacifica National
> >Board member Leslie Cagan reports back on the PNB situation -maybe
> >with others.
> >
> >Recorders/Reporters:  Fred Nguyen, Bob Bender
> >=====================================================================
> >FISCAL POLICIES, NJ CONCERNED FRIENDS OF WBAI- NEW JERSEY - ADOPTED
> >2/11/01
> >
> >1.  Receipts. All receipts shall be forwarded immediately to the
> >treasurer for deposit into an organizational account.  Amounts
> >collected at public events shall be counted by someone other than the
> >Treasurer with amounts listed in the minutes of that event
> >
> >2.  Expenditures:
> >
> >     a. Budgeted expenditures may be approved by the person in charge
> >of the project or activity.
> >
> >     b.  General expenditures should be approved prior to
> >authorization at a general or appropriate organizational meeting.
> >
> >     c.  Emergency expenditures of no more than $150  may be
> >authorized by the Treasurer and one other responsible organizational
> >principal.
> >
> >     d. Signatures of 2 responsible organizational representatives
> >shall be required for checks more than $200.
> >
> >3.  Reporting.  For each general meeting the treasurer shall present
> >a report itemizing receipts and expenditures.
> >
> >4.  Reconciliation of monthly bank statements shall be performed by
> >someone other than the Treasurer.
> >
> >5.  Budget.  The Organization shall adopt a budget for the relevant
> >period, initially presumably a quite short period, which shall be
> >presented for consideration at a general meeting, with prior
> >circularization at least by email strongly recommended.
> >
> >  Initial Budget - for period January 15 - March 31, 2001 - adopted
> >2/11/01
> >
> >Events:  2 General Public Meetings - (one held Feb 4), 5 planning and
> >decision-making meetings, 4 committee meetings, one demonstration
> >
> >Expenditures
> >
> >Mailings - postage and reproduction             $600
> >
> >Reproduction - information, agendas, fliers     $400
> >
> >Signs, other supplies                           $100
> >
> >Room Rentals                                    $200
> >
> >Refreshments for Meetings                        $75
> >
> >Miscellaneous                                   $200
> >
> >Media Expenses                                  $250
> >
> >Program, Other                                  $300
> >
> >TOTAL EXPENDITURES                              $2125
> >
> >
> >RECEIPTS
> >
> >Collections at meetings                         $800
> >
> >Assessments - 60 people @$20                    $1200
> >
> >TOTAL RECEIPTS                                  $2000
> >=====================================================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1021
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-16 12:22:51
Subject:WBAI
Message:

 From: 
        Juan Gonzalez <pacificacampaign@...> Save Address - Block Sender
 To: 
        <pacificacampaign@...> Save Address
 Subject: 
        Thanks for Responding
 Date: 
        Sat, 03 Feb 2001 18:48:07 -0500

We have been overwhelmed by all your e-mails and phone calls that came in
the last few days from around the country in response to my resignation from
Democracy Now! and my call for a national campaign to boycott Pacifica and
oust the board of directors.

Several volunteers are busy right now cataloging your responses, listing
your questions and building a contact list for the future. I hope to respond
personally to as many messages as I can.

Within the next few days we will be sending you more information on the
campaign that hopefully will answer your questions, and we will suggest a
variety of concrete ways you can get involved. We will also provide you a
method for making tax-deductible contributions either on-line or by mail.

Meanwhile, please be patient. And please dont pledge any money to your
local Pacifica station until the network has been reclaimed for its
listeners.

By the way, if you didnt send us your address and telephone number, please
e-mail us at pacificacampaign@... or call (212) 871-9322. (Because of
the volume of e-mails weve had to include another e-mail account:
pacificacampaign@.... Both e-mails are working.)

Thanks for your support, and remember, we must keep Amy Goodman and
Democracy Now! on the air.

    Venceremos,
    Juan Gonzalez







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1022
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-16 13:36:57
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] C.F.WBAI-NJ 2/7 & 2/11 Meeting Minutes & Budget
Message:

Kris, Unless there's a specific program that you absolutely want to endorse 
with a pledge, I would support sending your contribution to the "pacifica 
campaign" set up by Juan Gonzalez & Co., after he retired from Democracy 
Now! last week.  Yesterday, the scabs at WBAI cut off Amy Goodman to 
fundraise because it seems she and others have been carrying out a work 
"slow-down".  earlier this week, Amy read a great commentary from Mumia 
supporting her show, and encouraging people to step up the protests against 
the coup, and tying it into the rightward swing on the national level.  I 
think there's a NJ Friends of WBAI meeting this weekend up my way which I'll 
try to get to & find out more....


From:
        Juan Gonzalez <pacificacampaign@...> Save Address - Block
Sender
To:
        <pacificacampaign@...> Save Address
Subject:
        Thanks for Responding
Date:
        Sat, 03 Feb 2001 18:48:07 -0500

We have been overwhelmed by all your e-mails and phone calls that came in
the last few days from around the country in response to my resignation from
Democracy Now! and my call for a national campaign to boycott Pacifica and
oust the board of directors.

Several volunteers are busy right now cataloging your responses, listing
your questions and building a contact list for the future. I hope to respond
personally to as many messages as I can.

Within the next few days we will be sending you more information on the
campaign that hopefully will answer your questions, and we will suggest a
variety of concrete ways you can get involved. We will also provide you a
method for making tax-deductible contributions either on-line or by mail.

Meanwhile, please be patient. And please don�t pledge any money to your
local Pacifica station until the network has been reclaimed for its
listeners.

By the way, if you didn�t send us your address and telephone number, please
e-mail us at pacificacampaign@... or call (212) 871-9322. (Because of
the volume of e-mails we�ve had to include another e-mail account:
pacificacampaign@.... Both e-mails are working.)

Thanks for your support, and remember, we must keep Amy Goodman and
Democracy Now! on the air.

    Venceremos,
    Juan Gonzalez



----Original Message Follows----
From: "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] C.F.WBAI-NJ 2/7 & 2/11 Meeting 
Minutes & Budget
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:03:27

what are people's thoughts on withholding their membership contributions to
BAI? I'm up for renewing, but have been confused by conflicting suggestions
as to what to do... is there an alternative fund set up?


 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] C.F.WBAI-NJ 2/7 & 2/11 Meeting 
Minutes
 >& Budget
 >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:37:40
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > >From: siddharta5@...
 > >To: FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
 > >Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] C.F.WBAI-NJ 2/7 & 2/11 Meeting Minutes & Budget
 > >Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 21:48:21 -0000
 > >
 > >Friends,
 > >
 > >These are minutes and budget for our group.  Your questions, comments
 > >and assistance are in order.  Please also examine part 2 which
 > >outlines the budget.  We are trying to defray costs and any donations
 > >of services or of funds will offset future fund raising.
 > >=====================================================================
 > >Concerned Friends of WBAI - New Jersey - Decisions and Notes,
 > >Meetings February 7 and 11, 2001
 > >
 > >Main Decisions (and some updates):
 > >
 > >I. Pledging/Contributing: At the February 7 meeting, the body
 > >reviewed the/a current draft from CF, and resolved the following for
 > >us:
 > >
 > >     A. Contributions and Unconditional Pledges to WBAI should be
 > >withheld until all demands outlined in the Conditional Pledge are met
 > >
 > >     B. Conditional Pledge forms should be submitted to CF. These are
 > >to be mailed out centrally by CF. Note:  I was informed by phone on
 > >February 12 that some forms may have been mailed out in error.  They
 > >are being recalled.
 > >
 > >     C. The central mailing will also list several  organizations
 > >which are soliciting funds, including CF.
 > >
 > >UPSHOT: THINGS ARE STILL IN FLUX.  AWAIT FURTHER GUIDANCE.
 > >
 > >II. FEBRUARY 20 DEMONSTRATION AT NEWARK OFFICE OF EPSTEIN BECKER
 > >GREEN, GATEWAY ONE NEWARK -4:30 - 7 P.M.  This is coordinated with
 > >the
 > >New York demo - coordinator:  Steve Bernhaut - SBernhaut@... -
 > >various specific assignments made - leaflets, distributions
 > >
 > >III. ADOPTION OF FISCAL POLICIES AND BUDGET FOR PERIOD 1/1/01 -
 > >3/31/01- to be available via Fred's yahoo group mechanism
 > >
 > >IV. NAME AND ORGANIZATIONAL FORM: CONCERNED FRIENDS OF WBAI - NEW
 > >JERSEY (as of now, subject to change with other groups,
 > >circumstances) Unincorporated.  Independent affiliate of Concerned
 > >Friends.
 > >
 > >Other Decisions and Discussion
 > >
 > >V. Finances: We want to reimburse expenditures made on our behalf,
 > >including Paul Surovell's $260 for initial 800 piece mailing.  Paul
 > >will seek a contribution toward this from CF.  Hetty Rosenstein is
 > >leading an effort to secure organizational endorsements and
 > >donations, in cash and in-kind from unions.  The need for organized
 > >fundraising was reiterated several times. (The budget specifies
 > >contributions at meetings and subscriptions - 60 people @$20 for our
 > >expeneses through 3/31/01). Treasurer Rosa Federico suggested writing
 > >for the contributions.  She, Bob Bender, Fred Nguyen and Terri Suess
 > >will be account signators and Finance Committee.
 > >
 > >VI. Communications Committee - Fred Nguyen established a Yahoo group
 > >FRIENDSWBAINJ - URL is GROUPS.YAHOO.COM/GROUP/FRIENSWBAINJ. Fred and
 > >Paul Suvorell are setting up a phone tree. Decision was that mailings
 > >should now go only to those without email. Everyone will be on the
 > >phone tree.
 > >
 > >VII.  Legal Representation.  Newark labor attorney Bennett Zurofsky
 > >agreed to advise us.  Joe Fortunado, Montclair attorney, agreed to
 > >observe at the demonstration.  Bennett will leave the demo at 6 p.m.
 > >
 > >VIII Media Group is functioning - Contact Gus Menezes -
 > >Gusphoto@.... Organizer of Outreach/Membership Group:  Diane
 > >Beeny-908-233-7344
 > >
 > >VII Other and Related Events:  Sign-making party for demo - this
 > >Friday, Feb 16 ,6 p.m., home of Peggy Waldman, 16 Sage Drive, Warren
 > >Twsp - 908-647-2968.
 > >
 > >  Our next working meeting - open to all - is Wednesday, February 21,
 > >7 p.m., Ethical Culture Society of Essex County, 516 Prospect Street,
 > >Maplewood. Hopefully will have updated report from Strategy and
 > >Program Committee.
 > >
 > >Friday, March 2, 7:15 p.m. -Video on/by KPFA - Berkeley providing
 > >background on Pacifica, the struggle at Berkeley, and particular
 > >attention to the elected Local Advisory Board - all welcome
 > >-sponsored by the Ethical Culture Social Action Committee - 516
 > >Prospect Street, Maplewood
 > >
 > >Sunday, March 11, 3 p.m. TENTATIVE - Dissident Pacifica National
 > >Board member Leslie Cagan reports back on the PNB situation -maybe
 > >with others.
 > >
 > >Recorders/Reporters:  Fred Nguyen, Bob Bender
 > >=====================================================================
 > >FISCAL POLICIES, NJ CONCERNED FRIENDS OF WBAI- NEW JERSEY - ADOPTED
 > >2/11/01
 > >
 > >1.  Receipts. All receipts shall be forwarded immediately to the
 > >treasurer for deposit into an organizational account.  Amounts
 > >collected at public events shall be counted by someone other than the
 > >Treasurer with amounts listed in the minutes of that event
 > >
 > >2.  Expenditures:
 > >
 > >     a. Budgeted expenditures may be approved by the person in charge
 > >of the project or activity.
 > >
 > >     b.  General expenditures should be approved prior to
 > >authorization at a general or appropriate organizational meeting.
 > >
 > >     c.  Emergency expenditures of no more than $150  may be
 > >authorized by the Treasurer and one other responsible organizational
 > >principal.
 > >
 > >     d. Signatures of 2 responsible organizational representatives
 > >shall be required for checks more than $200.
 > >
 > >3.  Reporting.  For each general meeting the treasurer shall present
 > >a report itemizing receipts and expenditures.
 > >
 > >4.  Reconciliation of monthly bank statements shall be performed by
 > >someone other than the Treasurer.
 > >
 > >5.  Budget.  The Organization shall adopt a budget for the relevant
 > >period, initially presumably a quite short period, which shall be
 > >presented for consideration at a general meeting, with prior
 > >circularization at least by email strongly recommended.
 > >
 > >  Initial Budget - for period January 15 - March 31, 2001 - adopted
 > >2/11/01
 > >
 > >Events:  2 General Public Meetings - (one held Feb 4), 5 planning and
 > >decision-making meetings, 4 committee meetings, one demonstration
 > >
 > >Expenditures
 > >
 > >Mailings - postage and reproduction             $600
 > >
 > >Reproduction - information, agendas, fliers     $400
 > >
 > >Signs, other supplies                           $100
 > >
 > >Room Rentals                                    $200
 > >
 > >Refreshments for Meetings                        $75
 > >
 > >Miscellaneous                                   $200
 > >
 > >Media Expenses                                  $250
 > >
 > >Program, Other                                  $300
 > >
 > >TOTAL EXPENDITURES                              $2125
 > >
 > >
 > >RECEIPTS
 > >
 > >Collections at meetings                         $800
 > >
 > >Assessments - 60 people @$20                    $1200
 > >
 > >TOTAL RECEIPTS                                  $2000
 > >=====================================================================
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 > >FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
 > >
 > >
 > >
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________
 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 >

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1023
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-16 13:48:24
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Robert Knight and Bernard White to come to NJ
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: Fred Nguyen <siddharta5@...>
To: friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Robert Knight and Bernard White to come to NJ
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 06:20:17 -0800 (PST)

Robert Knight to Address February 20 Newark
Demonstration

Polk Award winning journalist Robert Knight will
address demonstrators on Tuesday, February 20 outside
Newark's Gateway II.  The demonstration from 4:30 - 7
p.m., is aimed at the national union-busting law firm
Epstein Becker Green.

Knight is a long-time broadcaster at WBAI, 99.5 FM, an
embattled station whose license is held by the
National Pacifica Foundation.

Knight until February 13 was the news anchor for the
morning program, formerly Wake-Up Call.  He and fellow
Polk Award winner Amy Goodman were discharged from
that role.  This followed the December 22 "Christmas
Coup" when Wake up Call host Bernard White and producer and
union shop steward Sharan Louise Harper, along with
station General manger Valerie Van Isler, were
abruptly fired after many years of service . Knight
still hosts another program,Earthwatch on WBAI midnight Wednesdays

Terri's piece posted on our yahoo group list provide
excellent background info on the demo and Epstein
Becker Green.

See everybody Tuesday.!
To send your comments to CFNJ ---> FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
=======================================================
BERNARD WHITE FIRED HOST OF WBAI'S MORNING SHOW WILL
SPEAK ON THE CRISIS AT THE STATION!!

NYACK PUBLIC LIBRARY, SUNDAY, FEB 25, 3 TO 5 PM
EMERGENCY MEETING!

ALL THOSE INTERESTED IN SAVING WBAI 99.5 FM AS A VOICE
OF THE COMMUNITY AND NOT BIG BUSINESS ARE URGED TO
ATTEND. NOW MORE THAN EVER WE NEED TO SAVE FREE
SPEECH!!

PROTEST THE FIRINGS, CENSORSHIP & HARASSMENT OF
PRODUCERS AND STAFF. DON'T LET THE CORPORATIONS TAKE
OVER THE ONLY INDEPENDENT STATION IN N.Y.

ROCKLAND FRIENDS OF WBAI
Rocklandfriendsofwbai@yahoogroups.com



__________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1024
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-16 13:58:07
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] DEMONSTRATION ANNOUNCEMENT & BACKGROUND
Message:


From:  siddharta5@...
To:  FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
Subject:  [FRIENDSWBAINJ] DEMONSTRATION ANNOUNCEMENT & BACKGROUND
Date:  Fri, 16 Feb 2001 04:38:46 -0000

February 20th, 2001  Demonstrate in New York City
and in Newark, NJ to Save Free Speech Radio

Save WBAI  99.5 FM
Support the WBAI Union --  United Electrical (UE) Local 404
Save listener-sponsored, grass roots, peace and justice, alternative
radio

Demand that John Murdock of the law firm Epstein, Becker and Green,
immediately resign from the Pacifica National Board. He represents a
corporate agenda that is being promoted by the Pacifica National
Board.

He also represents a huge conflict of interest by serving on the Board
while his law firm is representing the Board and WBAI management in a
current flurry of outrageous violations of WBAI worker rights,
amounting to a flagrant case of union busting.  Consider the
following:

Union Shop Steward Sharan Louise Harper has been fired without cause,
other staff members have been banned from the station, security guards
have been brought in, free access to necessary work spaces has been
denied, programs have been censored and  Local Advisory Board members
and listeners have been denied access to the station.  Award winning
journalists Robert Knight and Amy Goodman have been removed from the
morning show (previously Wake-Up Call), Mimi Rosenberg, producer of
Building Bridges, the Labor and Community Report, has been fired and
Juan Gonzales, co-host of Democracy Now! has resigned under untenable
working conditions.

In addition, John Murdock and Epstein, Becker and Green are proposing
revised bylaws that would allow a small number of board members to
sell off any of the Pacifica stations -  and WBAI is reported to be
worth up to $200 million.

Not only is Epstein, Becker and Green a union-busting law-firm, it is
also defending the National Pacifica Corporation against lawsuits that
have been brought by WBAI supporters. These listener lawsuits
challenge the legitimacy of the National Pacifica Corporation and are
directed at restoring democracy in Pacifica nationally and at local
stations.

Demand that WBAI be returned to its listening audience - before it is
too late.  Return WBAI to its original intent:  to give a voice to
those whose views are ignored in the "marketplace" of
commercial-corporate sponsored media.

We will not let WBAI be stolen from us.     Keep the voice of
democracy alive.

Join the NYC or NJ Demonstrations set for Tuesday, February 20th,
2001, 4:30 to 7 p.m.  at the Law Offices of Epstein, Becker and Green
in New York City (at 250 Park Avenue  (bwtn 46th and 47th Streets)
and in Newark, NJ at Gateway 2, 100 Mulberry Street, at  Market
Street and Mulberry (Just west of Penn Railroad Station)

Circulate this notice to as many people as you can, and have them pass
it along. Make a point to be at one of these demonstrations and bring
as many people as you can.

For more information call 1-800-825-0055 or 718-707-7189
In New Jersey call 973-762-3682  or  908-755-5846
www.savepacifica.net


For those who are interested, more details follow in the narrative
below:

WBAI 99.5 on the FM dial was initially founded as a radio station
dedicated to free speech and freedom from corporate control.  It was
dedicated to peace and representing grass roots and alternative
broadcasting.  Its signal reaches New York City as well as New Jersey,
suburban New York and Connecticut.  Over the years, WBAI has
steadfastly refused corporate funding and corporate control.  Now,
however, corporate forces are coming in through the backdoor and are
in the process of stealing the station.

WBAI has been a listener-sponsored radio station for more than 40
years and last fall it raised almost $1 million from listeners during
it's fund drive.   Listeners showed they were extremely pleased with
the programming and they voted with their contributions.  It was
after that successful fund-raising marathon event, that the National
Board (which holds the WBAI license in trust) inserted itself into the
operations of the station, firing the station manager and two others,
Bernard White and Sharan Louise Harper of the popular morning show
"Wake-Up Call".   A replacement station manager then fired and banned
other commentators and reporters to whom the listeners contributed
last fall.

Ironically, it is the very success of the station that has resulted in
this attempt to take it over and turn it into a hot commercial
property. Meanwhile, people responsible for the success of the radio
station are now being fired and banned from the station.  Volunteers
who have been responsible for successful fundraising efforts have been
banned. In short, the present management is in total disregard of the
founding principle of "listener sponsored-free speech radio." The huge
success of the station now could actually result in the station soon
being offered for sale.

As listeners, we are not going to let that happen. We WBAI listeners
are outraged.  We want our station back.   We demand that Free Speech
Radio be saved.  We demand the re-hiring of the award-winning
staff that we have contributed to over the years.  We demand that the
station be open to all listener volunteers again   (What's this, with
"banning" the very constituency for whom the station was established
-- the listeners?)

The station is in a crisis, and John Murdock, Senior Associate of
Epstein, Becker and Green who sits on the current Pacifica National
Board, contributes to this crisis.  The current National Board is not
reflective of the listenership of WBAI or the other Pacifica Stations.

The board's recent firing of key management and staff that WBAI has
been an affront to all listeners.  We insist that John Murdock
immediately resign from the Pacifica Board.  We oppose his firm
representing the Pacifica Board in the Board's attempt to bust the
WBAI's union and to resist listener lawsuits to regain control of the
station.

We demand that Epstein, Becker and Green and the Pacifica National
Board cease and desist their current actions, that John Murdock
immediately resign from the board, that the staff of WBAI be returned
to the station and that the National Board be replaced with local
representatives committed to"free speech radio".

The Pacifica National Board must be free of a corporate control agenda
that is revising the by-laws, firing staff and is, in general, laying
the ground-work for very possibly selling the station.


Terri Suess,
Newark, NJ
A member of Concerned Friends of WBAI-NJ




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1025
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-16 15:47:04
Subject:NIKE says NO!
Message:

I love the internet...

> >A timely reminder of the limits of consumerism, for your reading 
>pleasure.
> >
> >  Subject: just fwd it
> >
> >Nike now lets you personalize your shoes by submitting a word or
> >phrase which they will stitch onto your shoes, under the swoosh.  So
> >Jonah Peretti filled out the form and sent them $50 to stitch
> >"SWEATSHOP" on to his shoes.
> >
> >Here's the response he got...
> >
> >  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> >From: "Personalize, NIKE iD"  nikeid_personalize@...
> >To: "'Jonah H. Peretti'"  peretti@...
> >Subject: RE: Your NIKE  iD order o16468000
> >
> >Your NIKE iD order was cancelled for one or more of the following 
>reasons:
> >
> >1) Your Personal iD contains another party's trademark or other
> >intellectual property
> >
> >2) Your Personal iD contains the name of an athlete or team we do
> >not have the legal right to use
> >
> >3) Your Personal iD was left blank.  Did you not want any 
>personalization?
> >
> >4) Your Personal iD contains profanity or inappropriate slang, and
> >besides, your mother would slap us.
> >
> >If you wish to reorder your NIKE iD product with a new
> >personalization please visit us again at www.nike.com
> >
> >Thank you, NIKE iD
> >
> >
> >From: "Jonah H. Peretti"  peretti@...
> >To: "Personalize, NIKE iD"  nikeid_personalize@...
> >Subject: RE: Your NIKE  iD order o16468000
> >
> >Greetings,
> >
> >My order was canceled but my personal NIKE iD does not violate any
> >of the criteria outlined in your message.  The Personal iD on my
> >custom ZOOM XC USA running shoes was the word "sweatshop."
> >
> >Sweatshop is not:
> >
> >1) another's party's trademark,
> >
> >2) the name of an athlete,
> >
> >3) blank, or
> >
> >4) profanity.
> >
> >I choose the iD because I wanted to remember the toil and labor of
> >the children that made my shoes.  Could you please ship them to me
> >immediately.
> >
> >Thanks and Happy New Year, Jonah Peretti
> >
> >From: "Personalize, NIKE iD"  nikeid_personalize@...
> >To: "'Jonah H. Peretti'"  peretti@...
> >Subject: RE: Your NIKE  iD order o16468000
> >
> >Dear NIKE iD Customer,
> >
> >Your NIKE iD order was cancelled because the iD you have chosen
> >contains, as stated in the previous e-mail correspondence,
> >"inappropriate slang".  If you wish to reorder your NIKE iD product
> >with a new personalization please visit us again at nike.com
> >
> >Thank you, NIKE iD
> >
> >
> >From: "Jonah H. Peretti"  peretti@...
> >To: "Personalize, NIKE iD"  nikeid_personalize@...
> >Subject: RE: Your NIKE  iD order o16468000
> >
> >Dear NIKE iD,
> >
> >Thank you for your quick response to my inquiry about my custom ZOOM
> >XC USA  running shoes.  Although I commend you for your prompt
> >customer service, I disagree with the claim that my personal iD was
> >inappropriate slang.  After consulting Webster's Dictionary, I
> >discovered that "sweatshop" is in fact part of standard English, and
> >not slang. The word means: "a shop or factory in which workers are
> >employed for long hours at low wages and under unhealthy conditions"
> >and its origin dates from 1892.  So my personal iD does meet the
> >criteria detailed in your first email.
> >
> >Your web site advertises that the NIKE iD program is "about freedom
> >to choose and freedom to express who you are."  I share Nike's love
> >of freedom and personal expression.  The site also says that "If you
> >want it done right...build it yourself."  I was thrilled to be able
> >to build my own shoes, and my personal iD was offered as a small
> >token of appreciation for the sweatshop workers poised to help me
> >realize my vision.  I hope that you will value my freedom of
> >expression and reconsider your decision to reject my order.
> >
> >Thank you, Jonah Peretti
> >
> >
> >From: "Personalize, NIKE iD"  nikeid_personalize@...
> >To: "'Jonah H. Peretti'"  peretti@...
> >Subject: RE: Your NIKE  iD order o16468000
> >
> >Dear NIKE iD Customer,
> >
> >Regarding the rules for personalization it also states on the NIKE
> >iD web site that "Nike reserves the right to cancel any personal iD
> >up to 24 hours after it has been submitted".  In addition, it
> >further explains:  "While we honor most personal iDs, we cannot
> >honor every one.
> >
> >Some may be (or contain) other's trademarks, or the names of certain
> >professional sports teams, athletes or celebrities that Nike does
> >not have the right to use.  Others may contain material that we
> >consider inappropriate or simply do not want to place on our
> >products.
> >
> >Unfortunately, at times this obliges us to decline personal iDs that
> >may otherwise seem unobjectionable.  In any event, we will let you
> >know if we decline your personal iD, and we will offer you the
> >chance to submit another."  With these rules in mind, we cannot
> >accept your order as submitted.  If you wish to reorder your NIKE iD
> >product with a new personalization please visit us again at
> >www.nike.com
> >
> >Thank you, NIKE iD
> >
> >
> >From: "Jonah H. Peretti"  peretti@...
> >To: "Personalize, NIKE iD"  nikeid_personalize@...
> >Subject: RE: Your NIKE  iD order o16468000
> >
> >Dear NIKE iD,
> >
> >Thank you for the time and energy you have spent on my request. I
> >have decided to order the shoes with a different iD, but I would
> >like to make one small request.  Could you please send me a color
> >snapshot of the ten-year-old Vietnamese girl who makes my shoes?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Jonah Peretti
> >  >>
> >

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1026
Sender:"Flavio Komuves" <Flavio.Komuves@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-16 17:59:03
Subject:NBPC's glorious success in Superior Court
Message:

TO ALL MEMBERS AND SUPPORTERS OF THE NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN:

I am pleased to announce that the New Brunswick People's Campaign scored a crucial victory in state Superior Court in this morning.  Here is a summary of the events.  

Last November, NBPC filed a lawsuit against New Brunswick's city clerk, Daniel Torrisi, as well as the County Board of Elections, over the location of polling places in town.  NBPC explained that in both campus and noncampus areas of New Brunswick, polling places were improperly chosen by city and county officials, making it difficult for students and community members to vote.

Torrisi, the city clerk, tried to have the suit thrown out, claiming that NBPC did not have the necessary "standing," or legal interest, in the lawsuit.  Torrisi told the court that even though the Campaign has hundreds of members, and even though our candidates each received over 2000 votes in the election, and even though electoral reform has been an important and consistent part of our agenda, we did not have the "standing" allowing us to bring this suit.

This morning, Superior Court Judge Yolanda Ciccone completely rejected all of Torrisi's arguments.  This is a great victory for the Campaign.  It demonstrates that the courts acknowledge us as a legitimate group that is actively fighting for the voting rights of all of New Brunswick's residents.

This morning's important victory came as a result of the work of a number of people, and on behalf of all members of the Campaign, I want to acknowledge them.  First, Campaign attorneys Nicole Palmieri and Santos Perez, who are handling this matter, assembled an impressive array of factual and legal arguments against Torrisi's motion.  Their success reflects great credit upon themselves and upon the Campaign.  Next, NBPC members Curtis Warren, Eryn Loeb, and Julie Poulos, who all submitted certifications in the case detailing their experiences on election day and before, also deserve substantial credit for participating.  I also want to thank the former Steering Committee members for their foresight in authorizing the Campaign's legal fight for students' and community residents' voting rights.  And campaign members Frank Bright and Nicole Adler, who fought the initial battle over the polling places last year before the Board of Elections, also deserve credit for "getting the ball rolling" on this important project.

Although I am sure that I am missing many others who had an important role in this victory, I think that it demonstrates the professionalism, the unity, and the committment to struggle, that are the hallmarks of the New Brunswick People's Campaign.  We anticipate that this morning's judicial decision is just another in a long series of wins for democracy and for the principle of putting people first.

Please feel free to call me if you have any additional questions.

Flavio L. Komuves, Esq.
General Counsel
609/987-6854





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1027
Sender:JimmyFishHead@...
Post Date/Time:2001-02-17 13:38:40
Subject:Re: [nbpc] NBPC's glorious success in Superior Court
Message:

Congrats everyone!  I for one am very excited considering all of the BS I 
have witnessed, experienced, and endured related to this issue over the last 
decade!  
Jim






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1028
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-17 17:36:21
Subject:Death Row Mumia Abu Jamal speaks on WBAI struggle
Message:

WBAI: THE COUP ON WALL ST.
By Mumia Abu-Jamal, M.A.
#492 Column Written 1/29/2001
All Rights Reserved
Information is the raw material for new ideas; if you get misinformation, 
you get some pretty fu---d-up ideas. -- Eldridge Cleaver, former Minister of 
Information, Black Panther Party

With late-night lock changes, and a phalanx of security guards prowling the 
halls, the coup of WBAI-FM, the flagship station of the Pacifica Network, 
has begun.

Popular veterans of the listener-supported station, like program manager 
Bernard White and WBAI union shop steward Sharon Harper, (both producers of 
the morning "Wake Up Call" show) received letters of termination at their 
homes several hours before their shifts were to begin. WBAI general manager, 
Valerie Van Isler, who, like White, was a 20-year vet of the station, was 
similarly fired by Pacifica, ostensibly for failing to accept a position at 
network headquarters in Washington, D.C.

While these firings were attempts to remove, and thereby install, management 
personnel, it was also an opening salvo in a pitched battle designed to 
silence radical dissent, and open the airwaves to the corporatization of 
WBAI.

If you want WBAI to become a nice, sweet, safe alternative, like NPR, then 
do nothing. It will happen. If, however, you want to continue to hear about 
the struggles of the peoples of the world for liberty, for life, for 
dignity, as in East Timor; or of the noble life and death struggle of the 
zapatistas in the mountains of Mexico; or of cases like the slaughter of 
African immigrant Amadou Diallo; or of the continuing human rights 
violations occurring every day in the nation's burgeoning prison-industrial 
complex, then you must fight for it, as you would fight for your very life, 
or anything dear to you.

The great Frederick Douglass perhaps put it best when he said, "Without 
struggle there is no progress." If the various communities of New York and 
northern New Jersey don't struggle for their vision of WBAI-FM, it will be 
gone. It's as simple as that.

What's happening at 'BAI was attempted a year ago at KPFA-FM in San 
Francisco. The people of the Bay Area rallied in unprecedented 
strength--over 10,000 folks at one protest -- and backed the Pacifica board 
down. Listeners to 'BAI must do no less!

In theory at least, the airwaves belong to the people. For the last 40 
years, the staff and local management of WBAI have tried to make that theory 
in America a reality.

If you are thrilled by the no-holds-barred radio reporting of "Democracy 
Now's" Amy Goodman, who is constantly threatened and harassed by the 
Pacifica board for her radical reporting, then fight for her.

For in fighting for her, you fight for the finest traditions of WBAI, and 
against the corporationists who want to turn a national resource into just 
another commodity.

To keep it raw; to keep it real, you've got to fight for it.


top of page | home



----Original Message Follows----
From: siddharta5@...
To: FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Death Row Mumia Abu Jamal speaks on WBAI struggle
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 02:11:54 -0000

Friends,

If you have not seen this yet, click on it or copy on URL line

http://www.wbai.net/mumia_2-8-01.html




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com




_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1029
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-18 23:57:43
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Fund Raising/Pacifica & WBAI causes
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: siddharta5@...
To: FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Fund Raising/Pacifica & WBAI causes
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 04:16:46 -0000

Memo to New Jersey Concerned Friends of WBAI

From:  Paul Surovell, NJ rep to CF Coordinating Council

A letter was mailed last week by the Concerned Friends of WBAI asking
listeners not to contribute to the WBAI fund drive, but to give money
to
groups opposing Pacifica's actions as an alternative.

Unfortunately there as an error in the letter.  It was stated that
listeners could make tax-deductible contributions to Concerned Friends
through a so-called  "Listeners Fund."  However, such a fund was only
in the planning stage and Concerned Friends has not yet established
tax-exempt status.

Therefore, the Concerned Friends Coordinating Council has decided to
return all checks written to the "Listerners Fund."

If you wish to contribute to Concerned Friends, you may write a check
(not tax-deductible) to "Concerned Friends of WBAI."   The address is:

Concerned Friends of WBAI
PO Box 21711
Brooklyn NY 11202-1711

Concerned Friends also recommends contributions to these other
organizations:

(1) This fund contributes to the three lawsuits against the Pacifica
Corporation:

"Free Pacifica Legal Action/Vanguard Foundation"
c/o The Vanguard Public Foundation
383 Rhode Island Street, Ste 301
San Francisco CA 94103

(2) These funds were created by Juan Gonzalez:

(a) $100 or less:

"Pacifica Campaign"
51 MacDougal St #80
New York NY 10012

(b) more than $100:

"Institute for Media Analysis-Pacifica Campaign"
51 MacDougal St #80
New York NY 10012

(3) a fund for striking Pacifica reporters:

"Friends of Free Speech Radio"
c/o Friends of Free Speech Radio
905 Parker St
Berkeley CA 94710




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1030
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-19 14:45:15
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Open Letter to Pacifica Board from National Writers Union (Local 3)
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: siddharta5@...
To: FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Open Letter to Pacifica Board from National Writers 
Union (Local 3)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:59:23 -0000

The contents of the letter below has been banned from public
broadcast over WBAI.  Please check the PacificaCampaign web site for more 
info:
http://www.pacificacampaign.org/
===========================================================================================================================================
Dear Pacifica Foundation Board Members,

We, the undersigned, are trade unionists & Labor organizations who
represent tens of thousands of working people, many of whom listen to
Pacifica network radio stations and support these stations.
Historically, Pacifica's listener sponsored, Community based,
progressive radio stations have not only covered but supported the
efforts of working people everywhere to organize and gain their right
to fair working conditions.

We deplore your recent actions at Station WBAI, which have threatened
employee rights, gravely violate free speech principles, and place in
jeopardy Pacifica's important role as an independent source of news,
opinion, and culture.

Your recent treatment of WBAI's paid and unpaid staff, Local Advisory
Board members, listeners and supporters would be reprehensible at a
for-profit company, let alone at a non-profit institution which has
been historically dedicated to the promotion of better conditions for
all working people and whose mission has included serving as the
voice of the voiceless.

We are disturbed that you are using funds largely donated by working
people to retain the services of consultants and law firms like
Epstein, Becker & Green, organizations known for thwarting the
efforts of worker's right to organize and for advertising themselves
as maintaining "union-free" workplaces.

We are similarly disturbed by the changes to the Pacifica
Foundation's by-laws that have been proposed by Mr. John Murdock of
Epstein, Becker & Green. They would, if allowed, remove all
accountability by the Pacifica Foundation�s Board to its
constituencies, allow the Board to self-select itself, and would
place the Foundation's resources and decision-making power in the
hands of as few as three undemocratically self-selected Board members.

We believe that your recent actions run counter to the values of the
Democratic, Progressive, Community-based media upon which Pacifica
was founded. These activities are in direct violation of the Mission
of the Pacifica Foundation and they must be reversed.

We, hereby, call for you to take the following actions:

- Rehire all fired WBAI staff and eliminate your "gag" rule and all
forms of censorship at all Pacifica stations.

- Do not retain the services Epstein, Becker & Green or any other
consultants whose work opposes the efforts of working people to
organize for better working conditions.

- Do not approve the by-law changes proposed by Mr. Murdock. Keep the
original by-laws which are consistent with the original Mission of
the Pacifica Foundation.

- Restore the Pacifica Foundation to a democratic structure that
makes it accountable to its Constituencies; remove all illegally
appointed Board members.

- Do not sell Stations WBAI or KPFA


-------------------------------
National Writers Union, Local 3
WE DEFEND WRITERS' RIGHTS
337 17th Street, #101, Oakland CA 94612
Phone: 510-839-1248
Fax: 510-839-6097
Email: nwusf@...




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1031
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-20 14:01:27
Subject:grants for child care
Message:

this is of interest.. maybe something a student organization or GA can rally 
around...

*********************************************************
APPLICATIONS SOON AVAILABLE FOR CAMPUS-BASED CHILD CARE PROGRAM FUNDS
*********************************************************
In the FY 2001 budget, Congress included a $20 million increase
for campus-based child care (for a total of $25 million).  Funded
through the U.S. Department of Education, the Child Care Access
Means Parents In School (CCAMPIS) Program supports the
participation of low-income parents in post-secondary education
through the provision of campus-based child care services.  On
February 23rd, applications will be available to apply for these
funds.

Colleges will directly receive the federal money and then are
required to distribute it to eligible students.  A combination of
$350,000 in annual Pell Grants given to students makes colleges
eligible for the program.  The Department will award
approximately 150 to 200 grants.

Applications are available February 23 and are due by April 24.
For more information, call (202) 502-7525 or visit
http://www.ed.gov/GrantApps/#84.335

***********************************************************
PLEASE FORWARD THE CHILD CARE ADVOCACY NEWSLETTER TO YOUR FRIENDS AND 
COLLEAGUES!
***********************************************************
Our typical e-mail is about two or three pages long and is
delivered bi-weekly.  To join our e-mail network, sign-up on our
website or send an e-mail to: majordomo@... and write in
the body of the message: subscribe cdfchildcare.  To unsubscribe
from this list, send an e-mail to majordomo@... and write
in the body of the message: unsubscribe cdfchildcare.

Archives of this newsletter are also available at:
www.childrensdefensefund.org/ccadvoc_newsletter_archives.htm

***********************************************************
E-MAIL YOUR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS
***********************************************************
Write and tell your Senators and Representative that America's
working families need quality, affordable child care now!  To
send a message to your Members of Congress, visit
http://congress.nw.dc.us/cdf/elecmail.html

===================================================
Child Care Now!
Children's Defense Fund
25 E Street, NW
Washington, DC 20001
202/662-3671 (phone)
202/662-3560 (fax)
CDFchildcare@...
http://www.childrensdefense.org
===================================================
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1032
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-02-20 17:29:36
Subject:2-10-01 MEETING MINUTES
Message:

NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
GENERAL MEMBERSHIP MEETING
FEBRUARY 10, 2001

MINUTES

	Present: A. Adams, J. Adevai, P. Adevai, L.A. Agnese, L. 
Alex, A. Allred, L. Ammentorp, N. Aschoff, K. Bas, J. Bates, M. Bini, 
J. Boswell, F. Bright, D. Broderick, A. Coiley, A. D'Agostino, L. 
Dauphinee, J. Davis, D. Defeo, T. DeGloma, L. DePiano, H. Finne, J. 
Ford, M. Ford, S. Ford, T. Ford, D. Horng, J. Gallagher, B. Glyn, 
M.B. Goldberg, K. Gribbon, J. Gross, J. Hamilton, T. Hansen, X. 
Hansen, R. Holzapfel, K. Joseph, F. Komuves, K.C. Lin, G. LNU , H. 
LNU, E. Loeb, J. Luceno, M. Masters, P. McGee, P. Mehta, G. Mendoza, 
M. Michail, C. Montrose, E. Mullaney, L. Mwangi, Z. Nowakowski, W. 
Peeters, J. Poulous, S. Prince, K. Riordan, N. Rivera, W. Rukab, J. 
Saltzman, A. Toro, B. Villa, A. Wargo, C. Warren, A. Wynne.

	The meeting was called to order at 2:09 p.m.

	Zofia Nowakowski gave introductory remarks about the goals 
and history of the Campaign.

	The Steering Committee's nominated candidate for Chair of the 
Meeting (Curtis Warren) was not then present due to church 
obligations, and as a result, nominations for Chair were taken from 
the floor.  Xavier Hansen and Zofia Nowakowski were each nominated 
(with seconds) to serve as chair.

	Vote no. 1 (CHAIR OF MEETING)
	XAVIER HANSEN, 16
	ZOFIA NOWAKOWSKI, 8

	Xavier Hansen, having been elected as chair, described the 
democratic framework for discussions that would be followed at the 
meeting, i.e. of having debate until all people who wish to speak 
have their say (but asking people to exercise self-restraint because 
of the time commitments of the meeting).  Upon inquiry from a member, 
he also explained that the chair's decisions could be overridden by a 
majority (not 2/3) vote of those present.  No objections to the 
agenda were raised.

	Mr. Hansen stated that two members, who had previously 
requested to vote by telephone, namely, Nicole Palmieri and Charlotte 
Kates, would be contacting the meeting by cellular telephone to cast 
their votes.

	Objections to this procedure were discussed, but the majority 
voted to accept these telephonic absentee ballots.

	Vote no. 2 (TELEPHONIC ABSENTEE BALLOTS)
	Approved by acclamation
 
	Discussion then turned to the question of allowing votes by 
paper absentee ballot.  Proponents argued that it heightened the 
inclusiveness and participation opportunities in the organization.  
Opponents argued that notice of the procedures had not been given and 
there were risks of fraud.

	After thorough and extended discussion on the point, it was 
moved by DeGloma and seconded that: (1) votes called in by telephone 
would be valid; (2) paper absentee ballots would be invalid; (3) the 
Steering Committee should implement absentee ballot rules to be 
submitted to the members for their review and/or modification.  The 
majority then voted to close debate and then passed the DeGloma 
motion.

	Vote no. 3 (MODIFIED ABSENTEE BALLOT PROCEDURES)
	YES, 24
	NO, 12

	Xavier Hansen then presented a proposal on behalf of the 
Steering Committee to have a convention in the Fall of 2001 (probably 
in September) instead of in the Spring.  He opined that extending the 
time for it will allow for more work on other campaign activities in 
the near future and will allow ample time for outreach to carry out 
the convention.  The proposal reads:

Move the Next Convention of the People's Campaign to Fall 2001.

To ensure maximum outreach and greater participation by the 
community, to consolidate and expand the broad alliance of democratic 
forces in the People's Campaign in the months leading up to the 
Convention, to demonstrate our continued commitment to the 
empowerment of the New Brunswick community, and to raise the 
necessary funds to hold the event. 

	After a few supportive inquiries, it was moved and seconded 
that the proposal be accepted.

	Vote No. 4 (FALL 2001 CONVENTION)
	Approved by majority vote, three members dissenting.

	Mr. Hansen then presented the next proposal on behalf the 
Steering Committee, that is, that the Campaign work on a People's 
Campaign Center for Culture and Democracy to be opened by September 
2001.  The text of the proposal follows:

Mobilize volunteers and resources to open the People's Campaign 
Center for Culture and Democracy in New Brunswick in September of 2001

Unite the People's Campaign and raise the necessary funds to open a 
democratically-run, non-profit, cooperative center. Among the 
purposes of the center would be:

1) A headquarters to advance democracy and community control, 
promoting the platform of the People's Campaign and supporting 
grassroots activities and programs that advance the points of the 
platform.

2) A headquarters to strengthen the unity of democratic forces in the 
city, providing shared meeting space and resources to New Brunswick 
grassroots organizations that promote democracy and community control.

3) A headquarters to celebrate and promote the diverse cultures of 
the New Brunswick community, hosting grassroots cultural events and 
organizing to open public space throughout the city for cultural and 
political expression.

The People's Campaign would form committees (Community Outreach, 
Small-Business Outreach, Campus Outreach, Cultural Events) to build 
support and raise money for the center throughout the city. The 
proposed target is $15,000 by September 2001, so that we can rent our 
first space in the heart of the community and continue to build upon 
it. The make-up of the center would be discussed and determined 
democratically at upcoming general meetings of the People's Campaign. 


	Keith Joseph does not agree with the need for a People's 
Campaign Center.  He is of the view that the Campaign's main work 
over the next few months needs to be the expansion of roots within 
the community, not on a physical space for its activities.

	The competing views were amply and thoroughly discussed by 
the Members.  During the course of the discussion, the members 
unanimously agreed to limit each speaker to 60 seconds of debate time 
on the matter.

	It was then moved and seconded to accept the Steering 
Committee's proposal as written, and debate was closed on the 
question.

	Vote No. 5 (PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN CENTER)
	YES, 36
	NO, 8
	ABSTAIN, 6 

	The Members then moved into the Election of Steering 
Committee portion of the agenda.  

	Discussion began about whether a candidate who was not 
present at the meeting could be elected to the Steering Committee.  A 
compromise solution was reached, the members deciding by acclamation 
that a person not present at the meeting could be elected but that 
after the Steering Committee election, there should be an election 
for Alternate Members of the Committee in the event that a person 
elected decided not to serve.

	Noting that two written slates of candidates had been 
presented, Thomas DeGloma nominated all the nominees of both slates 
en bloc.  The nomination en bloc was seconded.  (Complete list of 
candidate appears below).  Samantha Prince also was nominated, and 
this nomination was seconded.

	The Chair, without objection from the members, appointed 
Jessica Bates, Huckleberry Finne, Robert Holzapfel, and Brian Villa, 
as Election Tellers to control speakers' time and to oversee the 
balloting.  The candidates, in alphabetical order, each gave one-
minute speeches.

	From approximately 3:40 to 3:55, the meeting stood in recess 
as the candidates for Steering Committee met the members.

	After the meet and greet period, ballots were distributed to 
those members in the room who had signed in to the meeting and were 
later collected from them by the Election Tellers.  It was noted that 
some members who indicated they had other obligations received and 
cast their ballots during the meet and greet period, the distribution 
and collection of these ballots also being under the control of the 
Election Tellers. 

	Once the marked ballots were collected, the Election Tellers 
withdrew to count the ballots.  Although the business of the meeting 
continued, at approximately 4:35, the tellers returned, announcing 
the following result:

	Vote No. 6 (AT LARGE MEMBERS OF THE STEERING COMMITTEE) 
	(Highest seven members were elected to office)
	Curtis L. Warren, Sr., 58
	Xavier Hansen, 51
	Danny Rosado, 50
	Zofia Nowakowski, 49
	Tom DeGloma, 43
	Julie Poulous, 40
	Flavio Komuves, 31

	Eryn Loeb, 30
	Samantha Prince, 26
	Frank Bright, 23

	In accordance with prior decisions of the Membership, the 
highest seven vote-getters were proclaimed elected as members at 
large of the Steering Committee. Thunderous and sustained applause 
from the members followed.

	These seven will join the Caucus Representatives on the 
Steering Committee.  In accordance with prior decisions of the 
Membership, each caucus with at least ten active Campaign members is 
entitled to elect one voting representative to the Steering 
Committee.  The current active caucuses (now the women's, students' 
and Latino caucuses) are expected to hold elections for their voting 
representative at their next meeting.

	After balloting had ended, the meeting had moved into the 
Additional Proposals and Tasks portion of the meeting.

	Women's Caucus proposal No. 1 was moved and seconded.  The 
proposal asked for a definitive decision from the organization about 
whether the Campaign should pursue an afterschool program.  Noting 
that the program was currently experiencing a lack of resources, 
despite its popularity as a program begun during the Campaign for 
Campaign workers needing help with their homework, the proposal 
sought to obtain direction from the membership about whether the 
program should continue.

	After ample discussion, there was a definite sense that the 
program was valuable.  Twelve volunteers offered to participate in 
the afterschool program.  After this, the proposal was withdrawn.  
The membership gave a hearty round of applause to these volunteers.


	Women's Caucus proposal No. 2 was moved and seconded.  It 
read: "All campaign meetings should be documented with minutes to be 
available at the next meeting."  Discussion followed, along with 
friendly amendments.  The proposal was modified to provide that all 
general membership and steering committee meetings shall be 
documented with minutes and that all caucus and committee meetings 
are encouraged to have minutes, minutes being a requirement if the 
committee/caucus wants something to be formally noted of record.

	Vote No. 7 (REQUIREMENTS FOR MINUTES)
	Approved by unanimous consent

	Women's Caucus proposal No. 3 was moved and seconded.  It 
read: "The campaign must prioritize the development of a 
telephone/person tree as the primary means of communication in the 
campaign.  Email should not be used as a crutch but rather as an 
addition."

	It was explained that the proposal was motivated by the fact 
that a number of Campaign members do not have ready access to 
email.   In addition, the Campaign has continuing privacy concerns 
that motivated the proposal for a phone tree rather than for the 
distribution of complete membership lists.  The proposal was quickly 
approved.

	Vote No. 8 (USE OF TELEPHONE CHAINS; MEETING ANNOUCEMENT)
	Approved by unanimous consent

	Thomas DeGloma moved, and it was seconded, that the Steering 
Committee be instructed to hold a press conference as soon as 
possible to remind local media and progressive media beyond the local 
area, of the continuing presence and work of the Campaign.  A brief 
supportive discussion followed.

	Vote No. 9 (INSTRUCTIONS TO STEERING CMTE. TO HOLD PRESS 
EVENT)
	Approved by unanimous consent

	Keith Joseph reported on his attendance at a meeting of the 
Coalition of Independent Political Parties, a coalition of groups 
that had achieved certain electoral reforms through litigation, e.g. 
moving the date for independent candidates to file nominating 
petitions.  Stating that the group's goals deserved further study, he 
moved to charge the Steering Committee with holding a forum on third 
parties, focusing specifically on the relationship of third parties 
to maintstream parties, which motion was approved.

	Upon the recommendation of the Steering Committee, the 
members then approved March 3, 2001, 2:00 p.m., at the New Brunswick 
Public Library as the date, time and place for the next meeting.

	Ms. Bas was announced that the next production of Arthouse, a 
forum for poetry readings, music, etc., would occur on February 17, 
2001 at 8:00 p.m. at 559 Hamilton Street, Somerset.  All are 
invited.  The donation is $5.00.

	Mr. Hansen announced that the Campaign's Special 
Investigations Committee meets every Sunday night at 7 pm at 218 
Townsend Street.  The Special Investigations Committee, besides 
compiling all reports of misconduct from election day, is also 
engaged in a number of investigations into government operations in 
New Brunswick.  These investigations will be written up into a 
newspaper for mass distribution in New Brunswick.

	Mr. Komuves invited interested members to attend a hearing 
before Judge Yolanda Ciccone in the Campaign's lawsuit against City 
Clerk Daniel Torrisi, to be held on February 16, at 9 am in Room 401 
of the Courthouse.  Call him on February 15 to confirm the time and 
place.

	The meeting was adjourned at 4:55 p.m.

		Respectfully submitted,


								
				
		FLAVIO L. KOMUVES
		General Counsel








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1033
Sender:JimmyFishHead@...
Post Date/Time:2001-02-22 09:51:05
Subject:Article in Journal Of American Medial Association
Message:

Hey all,
    Something of interest I spotted in the Boston Globe that I thought would 
interest the campaign.  Apparently, in the 2/21/01 edition of the JAMA, there 
was an in-depth article pertaining to limited safeguards in place to prevent 
institutional conflict of interest in dealings between academic institutions 
and biotechnology / drug companies.  Specifically, the article sites 
institutionwide bias at medical schools and affiliated hospitals.
    Now, not that this correlation hasn't already been made for years in NB, 
it has.  I thought it would be in the campaigns best interest if someone to 
get a hold of this article and give it a look over to gain additional insight 
from the AMA on the issue, then apply the model locally.  Never hurts to 
apply an institutions own academic writings against it.
    Further, something that I wasn't aware of is the Bayh-Dole act passed in 
1980.  It was specifically this act that allowed universities to patent 
inventions for the first time.  In my years of struggle at Rutgers, I never 
once heard the origins of this act and would be interested to see the wording 
of the act to further hone debate.  Flavio, is this something that you could 
get your hands on?  Zofia?
    Lastly, the article estimates that large companies conduct about 
one-fifth of their research at universities while small companies spend about 
one half of their research budgets at academic institutions.  Does anyone 
know how this compares in NB?  
    I will see if I can get my hands on the JAMA article here in beantown to 
bring down next time.  I just thought given the university right there, 
someone locally may have a better chance expediting both opportunities.  Hope 
all is well.  If anyone is interested, e-mail me with a fax that you would 
like the globe article sent to.  I guess you could check it out on line as 
well.  It's in the 2/21 edition of the Globe, front page below the fold with 
continuation on pg. D6 in the business section. Title is "New steps urged on 
university research bias."  Article is by Liz Kowalczyk of the Globe Staff.  
Later.
Jim  






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1034
Sender:"Charlotte L. Kates" <ckates@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-22 11:03:30
Subject:Reminder--Caellian deadline this weekend!
Message:

A reminder to all: The last Caellian before Spring Break will be in
production this weekend! We are focusing on several themes, including
celebrating womyn of color and body appreciation. As the progressive
magazine of Douglass College, we accept all submissions, and are an
uncensored, student-run democratic publication. We feature articles,
writings of all kinds, poetry, graphic art, photography, and whatever else
you would like to share. Please send all articles to
ckates@... by this weekend! 

(And forward this wherever people would be interested in writing!)

-charlotte l. kates, eic, caellian 
ckates@...
373-7853







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1035
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-22 11:18:47
Subject:Womens Caucus meeting for the Peoples Campaign
Message:

The Womens Caucus for the New Brunswick Peoples Campaign is meeting this Saturday at 4pm at 218 Townsend St.  All female residents of NB and campaign members are welcome to come!  There will be ladies night afterward at 6pm, so you are welcome to stay and have fun.

This is an important meeting.  We will be discussing all that you bring to the table, in addition to the direction of the campaign, the role and goals of the caucus.  We will also be electing a rep of the caucus to sit on the steering committee, which meets weekly to coordinate the campaign between meetings.










-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1036
Sender:"Audrey Allred" <audreya99@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-22 11:47:11
Subject:The Daily Targum- Women's Center Opening
Message:

There's a typo in my quote, but oh well...


http://www.dailytargum.com/sections/news/story/022201aak.html
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1037
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-22 12:52:14
Subject:Fwd: green delight announcements 02.21.01
Message:

support local businesses!
>
>Green Delight Herbal Apothecary
>for herbal teas, extracts, bulk herbs, incense, oils, soaps, etc...!!!
>846 Livingston Avenue
>North Brunswick, NJ 08902
>732-846-8402
>
>www.mamapriestessherbals.homestead.com
>
>02.21.2001
>
>Sister's Spirit Circle
>and Potluck Dinner
>ON THE FULL MOON!!
>SUNDAY MARCH 11--
>beginning between 5 & 6 PM--
>All Goddesses are welcome to join in an evening of dance, song, art,
>and spirituality. Please bring a favourite dish, and paint, markers, poem
>and music. BRING DRUMS OR ANY INSTRUMENT!!
>Call 732-846-8402 or 732-985-3397 for more information!
>*************************************************************************
>*******************
>Green Delight makes custom gift baskets for all occasions.
>Our herbal gift baskets start at $25 and contain tea blends, incense,
>oils, soaps, crystals, candles or any items of your choice.
>Choose from these samples, or make up your own....
>
>Dreamtime basket		$37
>
>Comes with 2 oz Dreamtime tea blend, 1 dreampillow,
>1 tea strainer,  1/2 ounce mugwort extract, scented
>soaps, vanilla incense and fragrance oil.
>
>Sleeptime basket		$37
>
>Comes with 2 oz Sleeptime tea blend, 1 faeries n
>flowers herb pillow, 1 tea strainer, 1/2 oz catnip
>extract, scented soaps, cinnamon incense and fragrance oil.
>
>Peacetime basket		$37
>
>Comes with 2 oz Peacetime tea blend, 1 faeries n flowers
>herb pillow, 1 tea strainer, 1/2 oz oatstraw extract, scented
>soaps, passionfruit incense and patchouli fragrance oil.
>
>WE DELIVER! Shipping cost is $8 per basket. Delivery is free to
>the Hub City Area. (New Br., Highland Pk., E. Br., No. Br. only.)
>To place an order please call 732-846-8402. We also accept credit cards!
>(mc/visa/discover/amex).
>*************************************************************************
>*******************
>Thank you for your interest in herbal medicine and your support of
>womyn's business!
>Love,
>Maria
>________________________________________________________________
>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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>Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1038
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-23 10:32:54
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] HAPPENINGS PACIFICA/WBAI STRUGGLE (2/23/01: 6 items)
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: siddharta5@...
To: FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] HAPPENINGS PACIFICA/WBAI STRUGGLE (2/23/01: 6 
items)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:26:51 -0000
FRIENDS
If you're not a remorseless internet surfer, this is a summary of the
latest events:
======================================================================
1. CALIFORNIA: Gods nesws from SavePacifica.net
California Senators sign letter to Pacifica; federal judge remands
case to CA courts
February 22, 2001:
Twenty-five California legislators � including the leader of the House
and of the Senate � have now signed on to a letter opposing the new
bylaws.
A federal judge has remanded the lawsuits against Pacifica back to
state court. That's a big loss for the Pacifica board usurpers, whose
attorneys had moved to have the case tried in federal court. The
decision opens the way for a possible injunction against the board's
attempt to pass new bylaws.
Meanwhile, the Sebastopol and Berkeley city councils passed
resolutions against the proposed bylaws.
======================================================================
2. NYC EB&G DEMONSTRATION:
15 photos of the NYC demonstration in front of John Murdock's Epstein
Becker & Green office building can be viewed at:
http://goodlight.net/wbai/
======================================================================
3. EB&G PROTESTS HAVING IMPACT:
This email was sent to Lyn Gerry, who runs the SaveWBAI list at
www.tao.ca (send message to redlyn@... to subscribe)
<there's a front page article in the Daily Journal, one of two legal
newspapers in SF,about EB&G and the listener protests at their offices
around the country.>>
======================================================================
4. LETTER WRITING CAMPAIGN GEARING UP TO SWAMP PACIFICA NATIONAL
BOARD CONFERENCE (HOUSTON March 1-4)
CFNJ will participate in the letter writing campaign. The information
will follow shortly (address, timing etc...). Please stay tuned.
======================================================================
5. CFNJ LINKS TO PACIFICA/WBAI WEB SITES
WBAIFREE.ORG web site has been censored by the EB&G thugs. They won't
silence us. The CFNJ group list gathers many of the essential
internet links. Please log on to:
www.groups.yahoo.com/group/FRIENDSWBAINJ/links
======================================================================
6. CFNJ PLANNING TO HAVE REGULAR VIGIL TO PICKET EB&G NEWARK OFFICE.
If you want to help please contact us (siddharta5@...)
WHOSE STATION? OUR STATION WHAT DO WE WANT? FREE SPEECH
REMOVE THE ILLEGITIMATE BOARD REINSTATE THE WBAI FIRED
WBAI STAFF & WORKERS
KEEP UP THE PRESSURE AND WE WILL WIN!!!!
=====================================================================
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1039
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-24 00:37:26
Subject:Fwd: [FRIeNDSWBAINJ] LETTER WRITING CAMPAIGN (IMMEDIATE ACTION)
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: siddharta5@...
To: FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] LETTER WRITING CAMPAIGN (IMMEDIATE ACTION)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 03:56:06 -0000

CONCERNED FRIENDS

THIS IS A CALL TO ACTION :

WE ARE ASKING THAT YOU WRITE A LETTER TO THE PACIFICA NATIONAL BOARD,
WHICH MEETS IN HOUSTON MARCH 2-TO-4.  YOUR LETTER SHOULD PREFERABLY BE
MAILED THIS WEEK-END (ALLOW 3-4 DAYS FOR U.S MAIL, 2-3 DAYS FOR
PRIORITY MAIL)TO REACH THE BOARD IN SESSION.

THE LETTER, WHILE COURTEOUS, SHOULD DEMAND ANY AND ALL OF THE
FOLLOWING BE DONE IMMEDIATELY:

1. THE REJECTION OF ANY BY-LAWS CHANGES, INCLUDING
THOSE DRAFTED BY JOHN MURDOCK, WHICH WOULD PERMIT THE
PACIFICA BOARD TO COMMERCIALIZE AND/OR SELL WBAI OR
ANY RADIO STATIONS OWNED BY PACIFICA.

2. THE REINSTATEMENT OF ALL FIRED AND BANNED PERSONNEL
AT WBAI.

3. THE REMOVAL OF PROGRAMMING CENSORSHIP AND GAG ORDER
ON WBAI PRODUCERS, STAFF AND VOLUNTEERS.

4. THE CANCELLATION OF THE LOCK OUT OF THE LOCAL
ADVISORY BOARD AND LISTENERS AT WBAI.

5. THE RESIGNATION OF JOHN MURDOCK AND DISMISSAL OF
UTRICE LEID.

6. THE CESSATION OF ALL RELATIONSHIPS OF ANY KIND WITH
EPSTEIN, BECKER AND GREEN, A LAW FIRM PROUD OF ITS
ANTI-LABOR AND PRO-HMO RECORD.

PLEASE SEND YOUR LETTER ASAP, TIME IS PRESSING AND WE WANT BIG BAGS OF
MAIL DROPPED AT THE BOARD MEETING.

PACIFICA NATIONAL BOARD MEETING
ATT. FRONT DESK
POST OAK DOUBLE TREE HOTEL
2001 POST OAK BLVD
HOUSTON, TEXAS 77056

REGARDS

CONCERNED FRIENDS NJ






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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1040
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-24 17:49:17
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] CFNJ (UPCOMING ACTION AND EVENTS)
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: siddharta5@...
To: FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] CFNJ (UPCOMING ACTION AND EVENTS)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 21:53:24 -0000

This week Concerned Friends of WBAI - New Jersey (CFNJ) calls upon his
members to actively participate in the following:

1. NO PLEDGE PHONE DRIVE: Call WBAI during the last week of their fund
raising drive and tell them that you WON'T pledge and why.  The number
is 212-209-2950.  The volunteers are uneasy and you want to tell them
about the corporate take-over of the station.  If you need details
contact Hetty Rosenstein: Hetty@...

2. LETTER CAMPAIGN TO PNB CONFERENCE IN HOUSTON:  We sent an email
solicitation yesterday (heading:"LETTER WRITING CAMPAIGN...")  Further
details at the end of this email.  You can also FAX.

3. VIGIL AT EPSTEIN, BECKER & GREED (Hmmm Green? maybe Yellow?): We
are planning a vigil/picket at the Gateway II in Newark.  Proposed
slots are Monday through Friday Noon-to-2pm and 5pm-to-7pm.  We need
people to hold signs and distribute public information leaflets.
Please email to Fred (siddharta5@...) with your name
availability and telephone #.

4. EVENTS

  Tuesday, Feb 27, 7:15 p.m. Steering&Program Comm, Ethical Culture
Society, Maplewood  Friday, March 2,  Video on KPFA-Berkeley, Pacifica
and focus on the democratic Local Advisory Board, discussion with
Carolyn Birden Ethical Culture Society Maplewood, sponsored by its
Social Action Committee - all welcome.

Sunday, March 11, 3 p.m., First Presbyterian and Trinity Church, 111
Irvington Avenue at South Orange Avenue, between Prospect and
Valley/Scotland, South Orange. Leslie Cagan reporting
outcomes and status from the Pacifica National Board meeting in
Houston.

LET'S GET INVOLVED BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE...LET'S TAKE WBAI BACK
======================================================================
Model letter to PNB (Please send ASAP: before tuesday is best or ealse
send priority mail... There is a fax too.

February 25, 2001

To the Members of the Pacifica National Board,

As a listener of WBAI, I am deeply concerned about recent trends,
both on the Pacifica National Board and locally at WBAI.  I am writing
to urge you to strongly consider the following necessary actions in
order to preserve community,listener sponsored radio.

1. The rejection of any-bylaws, including those drafted by John
Murdock, which would permit the Pacifica National Board to
commercialize and/or sell WBAI or any radio station owned by Pacifica.

2.  The reinstatement of all fired and banned personnel at WBAI.

3.  The removal of programming censorship and gag orders on WBAI
producers, staff and volunteers.

4.  The cancellation of the lock out of the local advisory board and
listeners at WBAI.

5.  The resignation of John Murdock and dismissal of Utrice Leid.

6.  The cessation of all relationships of any kind with Epstein,
Backer and Green, a low firm proud of its anti-labor and pro-HMO
record.

It is vital to take these measures immediately in order to preserve
the integrity of both Pacifica and WBAI.


Sincerely,

Your Name

Send or Fax too:

Doubletree Hotel
Address: 2001 Post Oak Blvd
Houston, Houston, TX 77056
Phone:  713-961-9300
Fax:  713-623-6685

THANKS FOR BEING OUR FRIENDS





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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1041
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-02-25 22:05:52
Subject:Cliff, Matt, and Joe Smith go to court...
Message:

March 19
9:00am
highland park

press conference:
         Wednesday 4:00pm City Hall 
         to announce date/time/location

all are encuraged to attend and speak out. 

to the steering committee - write up a letter of support for us and 
get it to me for the press, if it cannot be brought at 4:00. 

members of any other organizations should also prepare a statement of 
support on our behalf.  

 joe smith
 586.5535
 wacbush01@...







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1042
Sender:Daniel Strauss <djs116@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-26 10:20:54
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Just talked to Amy
Message:









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1043
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-27 11:43:53
Subject:Re: [njfo] Cliff, Matt, and Joe Smith go to court
Message:

Paul (& everyone),

    Obviously, the main issue is Joe's altercation with Kevin 
Jones--Everything else aside, we don't need complete ideological agreement 
to show support for an organizer physically assaulted by the Mayor's goon, 
and to condemn the city's use of threats and violence to harass campaign 
organizers.
    Another important issue is Cliff's being charged for flyering at a 
Public School.  I should go without saying that it is interest of the 
Peoples Campaign in particular and grassroots politics in NB in general that 
we all loose if the precident is established where somebody can be hauled 
into court and fined for distributing information to students at public 
educational institutions, a clear violation of first ammendment rights.
    The least issue is the 5:30am election day incident where Joe was tagged 
for something stupid and maybe even careless, and I, of course, got caught 
up in the passions of the moment, and was hit with an Obstruction charge.  
(I'm still waiting for the General Council to respond to my messages as to 
whether or not I should expect the legal support that they offered me 
earlier on). Even this case, however, is principally a result of a pattern 
of constant intimidation on the part of the machine using there goons and 
cops to chase us around NB streets tearing down our flyers and threatening 
us...all of us, not just BOL/SWORD.
    I hope that folks can see this & if only for pure self interest speak 
out against the City Machine intimidating and threatening everyone involved 
with the campaign, and finally physically assaulting an organizer.  I intend 
on writing a letter on behalf of NJFO condemming the Machine's election day 
tactics & in support of these charges being dropped.  It is in the long term 
interests of the Peoples' Campaign for the Steering Committee to do the 
same.

In the Struggle for Unity, Matthew




----Original Message Follows----
From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>


Was this the 5:30am election day incident when they 'towed' Joe's car? Paul


 >From: wacbush01@...
 >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
 >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: [njfo] Cliff, Matt, and Joe Smith go to court
 >Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 03:13:07 -0000
 >
 >March 19
 >9:00am
 >highland park
 >
 >       press conference:
 >                           Wednesday 4:00pm City Hall
 >                           to announce date/time/location
 >
 >all are encuraged to attend and speak out.
 >
 >to njfo - write up a letter of support for us and
 >get it to me for the press, if it cannot be brought at 4:00.
 >
 >members of any other organizations should also prepare a statement of
 >support on our behalf.  can anyone contact nb coalition against police
 >brutality?
 >
 >joe smith
 >586.5535
 >wacbush01@h..
 >

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1044
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-27 12:51:25
Subject:Voters rights
Message:

We missed this one, guys - I just found out about it ---

What can we do to improve our electoral system? 
                                                  

                                           Join us at the 
                           Electoral Reform Forum 
                                                  


                                             hosted by 
                                 Congressman Rush Holt 


                                               with 
                                          Guest Speaker 
                                  Congressman Mel Watt 
                                     North Carolina*s 12th District 


                                               with 
                            Assemblywoman Bonnie Watson-Coleman 
                                               and 
                                           Ingrid Reed 
                        Director of the New Jersey Project * Eagleton Institute of Politics 


                               Friday, February 23, 2001 
                                           5:30 pm 
                                          106 Loser Hall 
                                    The College of New Jersey








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1045
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-27 18:03:31
Subject:Press Statement demanding campaign related charges be dropped...
Message:

February 27, 2001

RE: Charges against community organizers relating to NB City Council 
campaign; since moved to Highland Park due to conflicts of interest with 
the New Brunswick Machines biased Municipal Court:

RE: Kevin Jones, Joe Smith, Matthew Smith, Cliff Smith
Case# 
s2000002713,sc2000017101,s2000002294,sc2000014556,s2000002714,s2000002762
Scheduled: Monday March 19, 2001, 9AM Highland Park, NJ


Press Statement

One of the most important historic tasks of our age is the preservation of 
democracy and our constitutional rights.   This past election season, people 
came together from across the New Brunswick community and Rutgers campus to 
participate in the electoral process as a way of democratizing local 
institutions:  NBs rubber stamp city council and their authoritarian, 
mayoral-appointed board of education.

We have been told all our lives that good citizenship requires participation 
in the democratic process, with the ideal that more democracy is always 
better that less democracy.  Unfortunately, the NB City Machine has 
demonstrated that their individual self interests and financial gain are 
more important than an engaged citizenryand that democracy itself is 
antithetical to their so-called master plan for the cityby violating the 
rights and freedoms of a community demanding change:

	The outright illegal and undemocratic suppression of votes,
	The illegal and unethical distribution of partisan paraphernalia inside 
voting stations,
	The constant harassment and threats of community organizers before and 
during the election by police and drunken machine-thugs,
	The suppression of the distribution of literature and information at 
public educational institutions,
	The outright fabrication of lies about the nature of grassroots 
organizations in attempts to dismiss them or undermine the validity of their 
democratic objectives,
	And finally, the physical assault of a community organizer by one of the 
Mayor Cahills aids, Kevin Jones.

The NB City Machines credibility in the eyes of the community is at an all 
time low.  The message has clearly been: What are you going to do about it?  
This is why we will continue our struggle for democracy and justice in New 
Brunswick.   We call upon the Municipal Court of Highland Park to recognize 
the sham justice that is taking place in New Brunswick, and that the charges 
against NB activists are directly related to political intimidation tactics. 
  We also call upon them to recognize our reasons for requesting these 
charges be moved out of New Brunswick courts:  It is because of direct 
political influence of the NB Machine upon the NB Municipal Court system 
that has stripped it of its ability to deliberate fairly and without bias.

In conclusion, we wish to make known to the Highland Park Municipal Court 
our demand that New Brunswick authorities drop these politically motivated 
charges.


Matthew Smith
New Jersey Freedom Organization
(973) 824-2949

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1046
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-28 09:20:55
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Press Statement demanding campaign related charges be dropped...
Message:

Matt, Do you think it would be helpful to itemize the charges against you 
guys?  I think this does a great job of 'framing' the casing, but I think 
it's confusing about what's at stake for you guys as individuals at the same 
time.  Paul


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Press Statement demanding campaign related charges be 
>dropped...
>Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 23:03:31
>
>February 27, 2001
>
>RE: Charges against community organizers relating to NB City Council
>campaign; since moved to Highland Park due to �conflicts of interest� with
>the New Brunswick Machine�s biased Municipal Court:
>
>RE: Kevin Jones, Joe Smith, Matthew Smith, Cliff Smith
>Case#
>s2000002713,sc2000017101,s2000002294,sc2000014556,s2000002714,s2000002762
>Scheduled: Monday March 19, 2001, 9AM Highland Park, NJ
>
>
>Press Statement
>
>One of the most important historic tasks of our age is the preservation of
>democracy and our constitutional rights.   This past election season, 
>people
>came together from across the New Brunswick community and Rutgers campus to
>participate in the electoral process as a way of democratizing local
>institutions:  NB�s rubber stamp city council and their authoritarian,
>mayoral-appointed board of education.
>
>We have been told all our lives that good citizenship requires 
>participation
>in the democratic process, with the ideal that more democracy is always
>better that less democracy.  Unfortunately, the NB City Machine has
>demonstrated that their individual self interests and financial gain are
>more important than an engaged citizenry�and that democracy itself is
>antithetical to their so-called master plan for the city�by violating the
>rights and freedoms of a community demanding change:
>
>�	The outright illegal and undemocratic suppression of votes,
>�	The illegal and unethical distribution of partisan paraphernalia inside
>voting stations,
>�	The constant harassment and threats of community organizers before and
>during the election by police and drunken machine-thugs,
>�	The suppression of the distribution of literature and information at
>public educational institutions,
>�	The outright fabrication of lies about the nature of grassroots
>organizations in attempts to dismiss them or undermine the validity of 
>their
>democratic objectives,
>�	And finally, the physical assault of a community organizer by one of the
>Mayor Cahill�s aids, Kevin Jones.
>
>The NB City Machine�s credibility in the eyes of the community is at an all
>time low.  The message has clearly been: What are you going to do about it?
>This is why we will continue our struggle for democracy and justice in New
>Brunswick.   We call upon the Municipal Court of Highland Park to recognize
>the sham justice that is taking place in New Brunswick, and that the 
>charges
>against NB activists are directly related to political intimidation 
>tactics.
>   We also call upon them to recognize our reasons for requesting these
>charges be moved out of New Brunswick courts:  It is because of direct
>political influence of the NB Machine upon the NB Municipal Court system
>that has stripped it of its ability to deliberate fairly and without bias.
>
>In conclusion, we wish to make known to the Highland Park Municipal Court
>our demand that New Brunswick authorities drop these politically motivated
>charges.
>
>
>Matthew Smith
>New Jersey Freedom Organization
>(973) 824-2949
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1047
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-27 11:25:51
Subject:community redevelopment-they're doin' it.
Message:

As I clear the lingering bad taste from my mouth...

In the spirit of unity, check out what Antioch Church's community 
development corporation has been doing by Rt. 27...

http://www.dailytargum.com/sections/news/story/022601aaa.html
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1048
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-28 12:54:35
Subject:Press release
Message:

Press Release 

*NEW BRUNSWICK, February 28, 2001
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE*

New Brunswick Peoples Campaign

Contact:  Flavio Komuves
Tel:         (732) 261-3163

Or:           Zofia Nowakowski
                (212) 414-9306

Or:	     Curtis Warren
	     (732) 448-5091 beeper

New Brunswick Peoples Campaign Condemns City's Policy of Intimidation and Voter Fraud During Elections

The New Brunswick Peoples Campaign is an organization that over the last year has forged unity with many different organizations in New Brunswick to promote democracy and self-determination for the residents of New Brunswick.  During the most recent elections, when 3 of our candidates ran against the Democratic incumbents for city council, we worked together with groups both within and outside of the campaign to further this basic goal of democracy.  While different groups may pursue different tactics, we condemn the nature of the charges against activists Joe, Cliff, and Matt Smith, because we believe them to be politically motivated.  These activists will be heard in court on Monday, March 19th, in Highland Park at 9am.

Charges pursued against the Smiths follow directly from the New Brunswick Democratic machine's pattern of intimidation, harassment, illegal electioneering and election fraud that occurred during the period before Election Day and on Election Day itself.  As just one case in point, Mayor James Cahill's aide Kevin Jones assaulted activist Joseph Smith and made terroristic threats against People's Campaign members Frank Bright and Kerry Riordan at the Lord Stirling School polling site on November 7th, 2000.  Since the November elections, the Peoples Campaign has been investigating and gathering evidence about the numerous acts of intimidation and voter fraud perpetrated by the city machine, and the Campaign will soon make these known to the public in their entirety.  Any individuals who wish to add to this list of violations should contact the campaign at (732) 735-1342.

On a parallel track, the Campaign is also vigorously pursuing a lawsuit against City Clerk Daniel Torrisi about his improper selection of polling places.  On Friday, February 16, 2001, Superior Court Judge Yolanda Ciccone overruled Torrisi's objections that the People's Campaign did not have standing (i.e., the legal right) to pursue the case.  Her ruling conclusively demonstrates that the courts recognize the People's Campaign as a legitimate group fighting for fairness for New Brunswick's voters.  *The New Brunswick People's Campaign is fighting for voting rights for all New Brunswick residents, which we have never had,* stated steering committee member Curtis L. Warren.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1049
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-28 13:25:15
Subject:Re our platform point for a useful employment center in New Brunswick
Message:

From: 	Catherine Ruckelshaus <cruckelshaus@...>
To:	"Contingent listserv (E-mail)" <contingnet-org@igc...
Date: 	Wed, Feb 28, 2001 12:49 PM
Subject: 	[contingent-org] FW: Dayworker centers a mixed success

*************************************************
This message sent via the contingent-org listserv
*************************************************



----- Original Message-----
From: CLINICSF@... [mailto:CLINICSF@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 5:30 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Dayworker centers a mixed success

City facilities help contractors find documented laborers. But rules vary
in effectiveness, and street gatherings, deportations continue.

By H.G. Reza
Los Angeles Times
February 26, 2001

"Good morning, sir! Good morning, sir!" yelled the 60 men in near-unison as
the driver of a black pickup pulled up to the Costa Mesa Job Center.

Sitting on a metal chair and bundled up against the morning cold, each man
leaned forward and raised a number--given out in the order the workers
signed up--on a blue piece of paper.

It was 7 a.m., and the contractor needed a handyman for six hours at $10
per hour. But the job required an English speaker; all but a few hands
dropped. Just about everyone could say "Good morning," but only a few could
carry an English conversation further.

The lucky worker picked--a man in his early 20s--was holding No. 39. The
contractor took him to breakfast before heading to the job site.

"I'm doing a construction job in the area and have been stopping here once
or twice a week," said the contractor, who wanted to be identified only as
Dave. "This isn't totally legit, but it's as legit as it gets. It works out
well for me."

This is the scene most mornings at city-sponsored job centers in Costa
Mesa, Orange, North Hollywood and elsewhere throughout Southern California.
Several dozen men huddle, starting before 6 a.m., waiting for an employer
to offer them work for the day.

A survey by the Los Angeles Human Relations Commission of day-laborer
hiring sites found that 97% of the dayworkers in Orange and Los Angeles
counties are Latino immigrant men. Although they are often stereotyped as
unskilled laborers, many are electricians, mechanics, masons, roofers and
bakers, the study found.

The centers are an attempt by the cities to stop the practice of workers
gathering at storefronts and street corners throughout the day waiting to
be hired.

Most municipalities have also enacted ordinances prohibiting the
solicitation of work in public areas. Orange police enforce the city
ordinance aggressively, arresting many workers who are turned over to the
U.S. Border Patrol and deported.

The commission's study found the ordinances ineffective in taking the
laborers off the streets. Researchers found that "as long as there are jobs
available, the workers will continue to gather."

According to the survey, which included Southern California and eight
states, ordinances are sometimes also applied unfairly.

"Police . . . often abuse the law by harassing Latino men into moving away
from places where they have legal rights to stand.

. . . Law enforcement also misuses the ordinance to break up employment
relationships which may be legal. Moreover, abuse of the ordinance is often
discriminatory toward minorities," the report says.

Officials in Moorpark, faced with complaints from residents and business
owners about dozens of men hanging out at Spring Road and High Street, are
trying to find an equitable solution.

Bob LeMay, the new police chief of the Ventura County city, said convincing
Moorpark officials to build a hiring hall is among his priorities. Despite
numerous complaints, there is little his officers can do, LeMay said.

"I am looking for some type of creative solution that will be beneficial to
both the residents and these individuals, [who] are only trying to scratch
out a meager living," he said.

At most centers, workers are not harassed by police, but they do need to be
able to prove they are in the country legally. But because many are
undocumented, only a small percentage actually use the facilities.

"The goal was to get people off the streets and out of the parks and give
them a place where we can put employer and worker together," said Glenn
Stroud, who supervises Costa Mesa's job center. "We've been successful, but
there's still a lot of people on the street soliciting jobs."

At a North Hollywood hiring hall run by the Coalition for Humane Immigrant
Rights of Los Angeles, even illegal immigrants can register. The facility
is unlike any other in Southern California.

Most mornings, the workers are provided coffee and Mexican sweet bread.
When the coalition began running the hall in 1997, it quickly fostered a
sense of belonging among the workers.

Workers tend a vegetable garden and have formed a band, soccer team,
theater troupe and marathon team. They also perform community service, such
as graffiti removal, and can check out books from the hall's library.

Robin S. Toma, executive director of the L.A. County Human Relations
Commission, said it is foolhardy to allow only legal residents to use the
hiring halls.

"It's a liability if the goal is to establish a site for a more organized
method of job distribution. Inclusive hiring benefits everyone: the
community, workers, employers and most of all the police, who have better
things to do than enforce ordinances and chase people away from street
corners and stores," Toma said.

Jose Campa, who works part time at the Orange Job Center, had to chase off
three scruffy men one recent morning who were not registered with the
center.

"All they want to do is work," said Campa, a burly retiree from El Paso,
Texas. "But the rules say that only registered workers can be here."

The three men said they had arrived from Veracruz, Mexico, 15 days earlier
and had lost all their money--$200 apiece--to the smuggler who brought
them. They were penniless, had not worked since they arrived and were
living on the street.

On this particular morning, only about a dozen of the 43 workers who had
registered for the day had been hired by the time the center closed at 10
a.m.

The centers aid the workers in other ways: Because city officials keep
track of the workers and the contractors who hire them, the workers usually
earn more than the $6.25 California minimum wage, and the contractors are
less likely to cheat them of their pay. Occasionally, wages are paid in
cash with no taxes withheld and no record--other than at the center--that
employer and employee met.

"I've heard terrible stories from these guys about contractors who work
them for three or four days and never pay them. This usually happens with
workers who hang out on the street. We've had one or two contractors who
have done that, but we know who they are and call them," Campa said.

The commission's report, due for release this week, quoted from a separate
study of Los Angeles-area dayworkers that found 48% had worked for an
employer who never paid them and 52% had been paid less than promised at
one time or another.

Occasionally, workers will land a long-term job. Manuel Soto recently was
laid off after three years from a construction job he got through the
Orange center.

"I took advantage of the opportunity. I learned all about construction and
after a few months I was made a heavy-equipment operator," said Soto,
speaking a mixture of English and Spanish. "I was making good money until
the contracts ran out and I lost my job."

On this morning, Soto, 30, said he was willing to take any job offered him
for the day.

The Orange center uses a lottery system to place workers. The names of
those who speak Spanish only are written on slips of white paper and placed
in a glass bowl. The names of workers who speak English are written on
green slips and placed in a basket. People are hired based on the luck of
the draw.

Luis Mandujan, 29, said workers rely on one another to keep order at the
facility.

"We don't allow anybody to get loud or rowdy. Everything is kept very
dignified here. The guys jump on anybody who brings beer. Employers don't
want to see people arguing or drinking when they come in looking for
workers."
Not all of the men are craftsmen or laborers.

Campa said a graphic artist from Mexico with computer skills was doing
menial work until he was hired by a woman who runs a silk-screening
business.

"He's now doing the company's computer graphics. I called her a few days
back to ask how he was doing, and she couldn't say enough nice things about
him. Stories like that warm your heart," Campa said.

But in Santa Ana, where day laborers hang out in front of a home
improvement warehouse store, the stories are not ones of success but of
exploitation.

It was 2 p.m. on a Thursday, and Javier Garnica, 29, Orlando Tapia, 20, and
Carlos Lopez, 25, were sitting against a chain-link fence, ready to give up
for the day and head to a soup kitchen near downtown to get something to
eat. None of the men had been able to find a job all week.

"A lot of people who hire us know that we're here illegally," Garnica said.
"Many of us get paid $4 an hour. Last week we moved furniture for a lady
for 12 hours, and we got $40 each. That's less than $4 per hour. She didn't
even buy us lunch. Most of the contractors who hire us at least buy us
lunch."

A fourth friend was not there that day because he had fallen from a roof
while working for a roofing company.

"He slipped and cut his face horribly. He had a deep gash on his cheek. The
guy who hired him told him to get away from the job site," Lopez said. "He
didn't take him to a hospital or pay him. The next day when he came by he
was still bleeding and the cut was becoming infected. We called the
paramedics and they took him to the hospital."

Lopez said that Santa Ana fire and police authorities asked them for the
name of the contractor. But nobody knew who the man was.

Garnica said that in desperate moments, he travels to the job centers in
Costa Mesa and Orange to try to get hired without registering.

"They're very strict at the centers. But sometimes that's the only way for
me to get a job that will pay at least $7 per hour," he said.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1050
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-02-28 14:11:38
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Press Statement demanding campaign related charges be dropped...
Message:

Paul- the charges were lumped together by the city when they moved us to 
HP...


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Press Statement demanding campaign related charges be 
dropped...
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:20:55 -0000

Matt, Do you think it would be helpful to itemize the charges against you
guys?  I think this does a great job of 'framing' the casing, but I think
it's confusing about what's at stake for you guys as individuals at the same
time.  Paul


 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: [nbpc] Press Statement demanding campaign related charges be
 >dropped...
 >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 23:03:31
 >
 >February 27, 2001
 >
 >RE: Charges against community organizers relating to NB City Council
 >campaign; since moved to Highland Park due to �conflicts of interest� with
 >the New Brunswick Machine�s biased Municipal Court:
 >
 >RE: Kevin Jones, Joe Smith, Matthew Smith, Cliff Smith
 >Case#
 >s2000002713,sc2000017101,s2000002294,sc2000014556,s2000002714,s2000002762
 >Scheduled: Monday March 19, 2001, 9AM Highland Park, NJ
 >
 >
 >Press Statement
 >
 >One of the most important historic tasks of our age is the preservation of
 >democracy and our constitutional rights.   This past election season,
 >people
 >came together from across the New Brunswick community and Rutgers campus 
to
 >participate in the electoral process as a way of democratizing local
 >institutions:  NB�s rubber stamp city council and their authoritarian,
 >mayoral-appointed board of education.
 >
 >We have been told all our lives that good citizenship requires
 >participation
 >in the democratic process, with the ideal that more democracy is always
 >better that less democracy.  Unfortunately, the NB City Machine has
 >demonstrated that their individual self interests and financial gain are
 >more important than an engaged citizenry�and that democracy itself is
 >antithetical to their so-called master plan for the city�by violating the
 >rights and freedoms of a community demanding change:
 >
 >�	The outright illegal and undemocratic suppression of votes,
 >�	The illegal and unethical distribution of partisan paraphernalia inside
 >voting stations,
 >�	The constant harassment and threats of community organizers before and
 >during the election by police and drunken machine-thugs,
 >�	The suppression of the distribution of literature and information at
 >public educational institutions,
 >�	The outright fabrication of lies about the nature of grassroots
 >organizations in attempts to dismiss them or undermine the validity of
 >their
 >democratic objectives,
 >�	And finally, the physical assault of a community organizer by one of the
 >Mayor Cahill�s aids, Kevin Jones.
 >
 >The NB City Machine�s credibility in the eyes of the community is at an 
all
 >time low.  The message has clearly been: What are you going to do about 
it?
 >This is why we will continue our struggle for democracy and justice in New
 >Brunswick.   We call upon the Municipal Court of Highland Park to 
recognize
 >the sham justice that is taking place in New Brunswick, and that the
 >charges
 >against NB activists are directly related to political intimidation
 >tactics.
 >   We also call upon them to recognize our reasons for requesting these
 >charges be moved out of New Brunswick courts:  It is because of direct
 >political influence of the NB Machine upon the NB Municipal Court system
 >that has stripped it of its ability to deliberate fairly and without bias.
 >
 >In conclusion, we wish to make known to the Highland Park Municipal Court
 >our demand that New Brunswick authorities drop these politically motivated
 >charges.
 >
 >
 >Matthew Smith
 >New Jersey Freedom Organization
 >(973) 824-2949
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________
 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 >
 >
 >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 >
 >
 >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >
 >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >
 >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >

_________________________________________________________________
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To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1051
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-02-28 15:24:52
Subject:press statement from CEBE
Message:

Press Statement
From the Campaign to Win the Elected Board of Education

For Immediate Release
Contact Joe Smith 586 5535 can_bush@...

While every city in Middlesex County prepares this April's school 
board elections, on March 19 organizers in NB for the Campaign for the 
Elected Board of Education will defend themselves in HPMC against 
phsyical and legal attacks from supporters of Mayor Cahill's appointed 
board. Including aide to the Mayor Kevin Jones, NBHS Principal Pierre 
Embrey, and municipal employee william Pfieffer.  Campaign Coordinator 
Joe Smith also has charged Jones with assaulting him on election day 
after Smith reported Jones was wearing an illegal election ribbon 
which police had to force him to remove. 

"No amount of attacks from Cahill's goons will cover the crisis in his 
school system", said Smith.  The High School graduates just over half 
enrolling freshmen and recent proficiency test results place the High 
School last in the County, down 6.5% from '99 to 56.5% proficient. 8th 
graders scored below 35%, while 4th graders averaged below 21% 9both 
excluding blue ribbon Woodrow Wilson). Roosevelt Elementary scored a 
county worst 12.7% proficiency.  Cahill must held responsible for his 
criminal betrayal and robbing of quality education from the youth of 
New Brunswick.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1052
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-02-28 17:06:13
Subject:today's targum - protest NBTomorrow
Message:

Group protests NB Tomorrow


      By Melissa Hayes
      Staff Writer 

                                                              
Describing the non-profit community organization New Brunswick 
Tomorrow as "doing the bidding" of the Johnson & Johnson 
pharmaceutical corporation, the Student/Worker Organization for 
Revolutionary Democracy attended the 2nd Ward Neighborhood        
Block Club meeting Monday night. The meeting, held at the New 
Brunswick Free Public Library on Livingston Avenue, featured New 
Brunswick Tomorrow President Jeffrey Vega as a speaker.

Vega, a graduate student of urban planning and public policy, 
explained the purpose of New Brunswick Tomorrow to interested 
community members. He said that the group provides numerous programs, 
including the creation of a career development curriculum for New 
Brunswick students enrolled in kindergarten through 12th grade.

Along with area Catholic charities, Vega's organization has developed 
a case management program for public-assistance residents of Memorial 
Homes who are facing eviction as the building is reconstructed into 
several mixed-income housing units. The program evaluates what each 
household needs as it relocates, crafting a customized plan for family 
aid, which Vega said was an effective initiative.

But Joe Smith, a University College first-year student, disagreed. 
Smith, a member of the Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary 
Democracy, said after the meeting that his organization is "not 
satisfied with the way that [New Brunswick Tomorrow is]handling the 
Memorial Homes situation."

Vega said at the meeting that Johnson & Johnson funds 6 percent of New 
Brunswick Tomorrow's annual budget. Vega described Johnson & Johnson 
as "one of [the group's] main contributors." Smith said that New 
Brunswick Tomorrow "calls themselves a not-for-profit organization and 
they try to pass it off like they have [the people's]interests [in 
mind], but that's a lie." Smith insinuated that Johnson & Johnson may 
possess ulterior motives for giving New Brunswick Tomorrow its annual 
allotment.

"The public actually has no role in the `development' of New 
Brunswick," according to a prepared statement from the organization. 
Smith elaborated, saying that the public should elect members of New 
Brunswick Tomorrow.

"$6 million is not just peanuts and little kids' basketball games," he 
said. Smith felt that more could be done for the community with the 
money. New Brunswick needs job training facilities, cultural centers 
for youth and more, Smith said.

"There is no public vote on resources available," he added. Smith said 
that he feels New Brunswick Tomorrow is being controlled by the 
private sector and the people of New Brunswick should be given the 
opportunity to be more involved with the group.

But Vega said he does not understand why Smith is against New 
Brunswick Tomorrow, which he described as a benefit to the community. 
He said he does not know where the animus against the group from the 
Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy came from. 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1053
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-01 11:53:05
Subject:"shine a LIGHT for the world to see..."
Message:

Charitable Choice or
	Compassionate �Convert�icism??

On January 29, 2001, G.W. Bush announced the creation of the first federal 
office dedicated to the �integration of religious groups into federally 
financed social services� (NY Times, 1/30/01).

The cornerstone of the �compassionate conservative� agenda, so-called 
�faith-based initiatives� pose serious threats to the public safety net, 
public sector employment, and civil rights in general.

What are the origins of the "charitable choice"? How is it linked to 
prominent (and undercover) right-wing ideologues like John Ashcroft, Tommy 
Thompson, and Charles Murray (of the 'Bell Curve' fame)? What is its 
relationship to workfare? What does this mean for the principle of 
separation between church and state?

AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY

What are we going to do about it???

Join us in for an interactive discussion
break down the myths and
examine the truth behind �charitable choice�
and the latest right-wing attack on democracy

with a presentation by Kristina Bas, NJFO member and former Rutgers student 
activist

Monday, March 26, 2001 - 8 pm
Faculty Dining Room in the Douglass Cafe
Douglass College Center
FREE!

Sponsored by:
Women's Defense Coalition (WDC), the Caellian,
and the New Jersey Freedom Organization (NJFO)

for more info email: audreya@...
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1054
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-01 16:36:44
Subject:Meeting agenda for Saturday, March 3
Message:

The Campaign's next general meeting is Saturday, March 3, 2001, at 
2:00 p.m., at the New Brunswick Public Library, Livingston Avenue.

The Steering Committee has finalized the agenda for the meeting; 
however, we are still fine-tuning a number of the specific 
proposals.  However, to give as much advance notice as is possible 
under the circumstances, the agenda appears below.


NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
General Meeting Agenda
March 3, 2001

I. 	Introduction - 2:00 sharp

II. 	Approval of the Chair - 2:05

III. 	Approval of Minutes from February 10, 2001 general meeting - 
2:08

IV. 	Approval of the Agenda 2:10 

V. 	Discussion: Community Participation within the People's 
Campaign, 2:15

VI. 	Adoption of Rules concerning who is a member of the Campaign, 
2:40

	The Steering Committee requests that the Members adopt rules 
to clearly define who is a Member of the Campaign.


VII.	 Building of the Campaign Organization, 2:55

	The Steering Committee's actual experiences over the past 
year suggest that work is best done in the Campaign when (a) the 
needed work is clearly defined by the membership as well as the 
volunteer who will be performing it; (b) the work is delegated to a 
knowledgeable and enthusiastic person who is empowered with broad 
responsibilities and authority with respect to that work; (c) the 
volunteer receives both training to do the job and the enthusiastic 
support of other Campaign members and (d) the volunteer is 
accountable to the members and the Steering Committee for their job. 

        The Steering Committee will present for discussion and 
approval, a proposal for principal positions within the Campaign.


VIII. 	Introductory Discussion of the New Brunswick People's 
Campaign Mission Statement, emphasizing our commitment to promoting 
political and cultural self-determination for all people, 3:20


IX. 	Election of Alternate Members of the Steering Committee (in 
accordance with the Membership's instructions of 2/10/01), 3:40


X. 	Discussion of the Rights and Responsibilities of Members, 3:55

        The Steering Committee will request that the Members adopt a 
Code of Civil Conduct.


XI. 	Absentee ballot procedure, 4:10

In accordance with the Membership's orders at the 2/10/01 meeting, 
the Steering Committee announces that telephonic or paper absentee 
ballots may be cast by any person who is a member of the Campaign (as 
we have defined earlier) for elected positions within the Campaign.  
To cast an absentee ballot, the person must contact a member of the 
Steering Committee by the third day before a meeting.  The Steering 
Committee member will give further instructions about the ballot.   
We also introduce for your consideration, and for discussion and 
adoption at the next meeting, procedural rules to govern absentee 
balloting.


XII. 	Announcement of Upcoming General Membership Meeting dates. 

	The Campaign's meetings will be held on the last Saturday of 
each month, unless holidays intervene.  Thus, the schedule of 
meetings for the upcoming month is as follows.

March 31; April 28; June 2; June 30; July 28.

         All meetings are held at 2:00 at the New Brunswick Public 
Library, Livingston Avenue, New Brunswick:

XIII.	Please consider the following issues which will be discussed 
at the next meeting (in addition to the items mentioned above):

	A. What should be the Campaign's involvement, if any, in the 
2001 gubernatorial elections?


XIV.	Updates on other items from last meeting: press conference, 
third party forums, phone tree, membership lists, 4:25
 

XV.	General announcements: social events, forums, press 
conferences, court hearings, municipal meetings, etc., 4:30


XVI.	Adjournment and cleanup, 4:40 p.m.









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1055
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-01 18:09:24
Subject:MARCH 3 AGENDA-ITEM VI (MEMBERSHIP)
Message:

A quorum of the Steering Committee has approved of the following 
proposal regarding who is a member of the Campaign.  It will be 
submitted to the membership for a vote at the March 3, 2001 meeting.

MEMBERSHIP OF THE CAMPAIGN

A. 	Members of the Campaign are:

	1. New Brunswick residents, age 13 or older, whether citizens 
or not, upon appearing at a general meeting or a convention meeting;

	2. Non-New Brunswick residents, age 13 or older, whether 
citizens or not, who have within the last six months, performed 
actual work or rendered actual assistance to the Campaign, upon 
attending a full general meeting or convention meeting of the 
Campaign; and

	3. Any person under age 13, whether a citizen or not, who has 
within the last six months, performed actual work or rendered actual 
assistance to the Campaign.
 

B.	A person who supports the Campaign and who has performed 
actual work for the Campaign but whose schedule does not allow them 
to attend meetings may be made a member by vote of the Steering 
Committee.

 
C. 	A member may be expelled for conduct seriously inimical to 
the purposes of the Campaign.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1056
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-01 18:36:14
Subject:MARCH 3 MEETING-ITEM VII (BUILDING OF THE CAMPAIGN ORGANIZATION)
Message:

A quorum of the Steering Committee has approved the attached proposal 
concerning key jobs within the Campaign.  It will be submitted to the 
membership for discussion and approval at the March 3, 2001 meeting.  
(see item VII of the agenda)

PROPOSAL FOR PRINCIPAL POSITIONS
WITHIN THE CAMPAIGN


Proposal for principal positions within the Campaign (Specific duties 
to be decided upon by the volunteer and the Steering Committee):

1. Coordinator of Advocacy for Education and Youth Activities
2. Coordinator of Advocacy for Police Oversight and Criminal Justice 
issues
3. Coordinator of Advocacy for Housing and Rent Control issues 
4. Coordinator of Advocacy for Economic Development and Job/Career 
Issues
5. Director of Media Relations
6. Director of Publishing/Newspapers
7. Director of Fundraising
8. Treasurer
9. Director of Special Investigations
10. Other positions suggested at the meeting.














-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1057
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-01 18:48:57
Subject:MARCH 3 AGENDA-ITEM X (RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF MEMBERS)
Message:

The Steering Committee presents for your consideration and approval 
at the March 3, 2001 meeting the attached Statement of Rights and 
Responsibilities.  (This is the last of the attachments concerning 
the agenda).  Thanks for taking the time to look at them, and I hope 
to see everyone there on Thursday!  -- Flavio


STATEMENT OF RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES

	The New Brunswick People's Campaign is an association 
committed to inclusion of all persons who share its objectives, and 
has adopted this Statement to foster this atmosphere of inclusion.  
Nevertheless, mindful that vigorous political debate will necessarily 
occur within this organization, these precepts are not meant to 
stifle legitimate political debate in any manner.

	1.	No Campaign member may purposely, knowingly or 
recklessly cause bodily injury to, or attempt to cause bodily injury 
to:
	(a)	another Campaign member; or
	(b)	any person, while performing work for the Campaign.

	2.	No Campaign member may engage in threatening, 
harassing, or menacing behavior toward:
	(a)	another Campaign member; or
	(b)	any person, while performing work for the Campaign.
	
	3.	Behavior is threatening, harassing, or menacing when:
	(a) 	it creates actual fear or intimidation in the person 
or persons to whom it is directed or in a person or persons who 
actually see and/or hear the behavior in question; and
	(b)	a reasonable person would experience fear or 
intimidation from such behavior. 

	4.	No Campaign member may: (a) through speech or 
conduct, express contempt or scorn for any person on account of their 
race, creed, color, national origin, ancestry, age, marital status, 
sex, affectional or sexual orientation, atypical cellular hereditary 
blood trait, veteran status, liability for service in the Armed 
Forces, or mental or physical disability; or (b) purposely, 
knowingly, or recklessly discriminate against any person on account 
of any of the traits set forth in section (a) hereof.   A Campaign 
member who engages in such conduct does not do so on behalf of the 
Campaign and may be sanctioned as provided in this Statement.

	5.	 Any Campaign member aware of a possible violation of 
this Statement shall personally discuss it with a Steering Committee 
member, or with a person who promises to discuss it with a Steering 
Committee member.

	6.	A Steering Committee member, after learning of a 
possible violation, shall attempt to mediate or resolve the dispute 
in consultation with other Steering Committee members.

	7.	If the intervention of the Steering Committee does 
not resolve the situation, any Campaign member has the right to 
present the issue formally to the Steering Committee, making the 
specific charges under oath.  Such member may request sanctions, up 
to and including expulsion of the alleged offender.  As with all 
decisions of the Steering Committee, any person dissatisfied with the 
Steering Committee's resolution may appeal the decision at a general 
meeting.

	8.	The conduct described in Sections 1, 2, or 4 above, 
if engaged in at a meeting, is per se conduct out of order, and the 
Chair of such a meeting may sanction a person engaging in such 
conduct, up to and including expelling him or her from the meeting. 
As with all decisions of the Chair, any person dissatisfied with the 
Chair's decision may appeal the decision to the membership.









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1058
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-02 09:04:44
Subject:BUILDING OF THE CAMPAIGN ORGANIZATION
Message:

I think we need to think of positions in the campaign along these lines...

this is good for a suggested structure, but the membership mainly needs to 
be involved in creating structure, the group itself needs to experience 
creative discussion.

I don't know if that's all-together possible at a large meeting. People can 
put their two cents in, but for every person at the meeting, there may be 
ten or fifteen questions and comments.

I think experienced folks know that it's often hard to get your comments in 
at a meeting of ten, much less fifty or so...

I think both trends need to be worked on together-  topdown and bottomup.  
Paul


>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] MARCH 3 MEETING-ITEM VII (BUILDING OF THE CAMPAIGN 
>ORGANIZATION)
>Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 23:36:14 -0000
>
>A quorum of the Steering Committee has approved the attached proposal
>concerning key jobs within the Campaign.  It will be submitted to the
>membership for discussion and approval at the March 3, 2001 meeting.
>(see item VII of the agenda)
>
>PROPOSAL FOR PRINCIPAL POSITIONS
>WITHIN THE CAMPAIGN
>
>
>Proposal for principal positions within the Campaign (Specific duties
>to be decided upon by the volunteer and the Steering Committee):
>
>1. Coordinator of Advocacy for Education and Youth Activities
>2. Coordinator of Advocacy for Police Oversight and Criminal Justice
>issues
>3. Coordinator of Advocacy for Housing and Rent Control issues
>4. Coordinator of Advocacy for Economic Development and Job/Career
>Issues
>5. Director of Media Relations
>6. Director of Publishing/Newspapers
>7. Director of Fundraising
>8. Treasurer
>9. Director of Special Investigations
>10. Other positions suggested at the meeting.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1059
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-02 12:30:09
Subject:Fwd: Pacifica Campaign Censorship Alert
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: Pacifica Campaign <pacificacampaign@...>
To: Juan Gonzalez <pacificacampaign@...>
Subject: Pacifica Campaign Censorship Alert
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 00:08:52 -0500

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
MARCH 1, 2001
E-MAIL: PACIFICACAMPAIGN@...

PACIFICA CAMPAIGN CONDEMNS CENSORSHIP OF DEMOCRACY NOW!
SHAMEFUL ACTION UNDERSCORES NEED FOR NEW LEADERSHIP

NEW YORK -- Pacifica Radio�s censorship of a commentary by death row
prisoner Mumia Abu-Jamal on Democracy Now! Wednesday highlights the
continuing disregard for journalistic integrity and free speech at the
52-year-old network.

Pacifica station WPFW in Washington DC cut off Abu-Jamal�s commentary in
mid-stream just as he started talking about the December firings at Pacifica
station WBAI. Shortly after the commentary was over, WPFW returned to
Democracy Now!

�The naked hostility towards open dialogue and the free exchange of ideas
hurts Pacifica journalists and listeners. It�s an affront to free speech
principles and enormously damages the credibility of the network,� said Juan
Gonzalez, the coordinator of the Pacifica Campaign, a month old organization
calling for the resignation of the Pacifica Radio Board.

Still, the censorship continues. Today, Pacifica station KPFT in Houston cut
into Democracy Now! when host Amy Goodman said that she was looking forward
to seeing people at the Pacifica National Board meeting at the Doubletree
Hotel in Houston this weekend. Goodman also announced that she would be
speaking Friday night at the MECA center on Kane St.

�What are Pacifica executives afraid of? By arbitrarily censoring their own
journalists, the present management and Board leadership has shown that they
are unfit to lead any news organization, let alone a network like Pacifica
which has historically been at the cutting edge of free speech,� said
Bok-keem Nyerere, a staff member of the Pacifica Campaign.

Mumia Abu-Jamal�s commentaries focus on everything from fatherhood to �mad
cow� disease. They have run on Democracy Now! for the past four years.
Ironically, Pacifica executives had previously protested the censorship of
Mumia�s commentaries on Democracy Now! In 1997, WRTI-FM, a Philadelphia
station with 11 affiliates across the state, canceled its contract with
Pacifica Radio following the airing of an Abu-Jamal commentary on Democracy
Now!

The Pacifica Campaign is urging all concerned about free speech to protest
these egregious acts of censorship which are being endorsed by a corporate
clique that has hijacked the Pacifica Board. Call today for the resignation
of all Pacifica Board officers.

1) Pacifica Board Chair David Acosta
A Houston CPA at a family firm, David Acosta�s work number is 713-926-4604.
His home number is (713) 660-8212. As a Pacifica listener, staffer and/or
contributor, let your voice be heard. Please tell David Acosta that he --
and all Board officers -- must resign from the Pacifica National Board
immediately.

2) Pacifica Board Treasurer Micheal Palmer
He is a Vice President at CB Richard Ellis in Houston, the world�s largest
commercial real estate services firm. Call his boss, Managing Director Will
Penland, at 713-840-6501. Please let Mr. Will Penland know that Micheal
Palmer is tarnishing the name of CB Richard Ellis because of the
mismanagement and censorship at Pacifica Radio. Ask Mr. Penland to urge that
Micheal Palmer resign from the Pacifica Board. Be polite but be firm.

(F)


**********************************************
Mailing Address:
The Pacifica Campaign
51 MacDougal St., #80
NY, NY  10012
Tel: (646) 230-9588

www.pacificacampaign.org
pacificacampaign@...


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1060
Sender:Anna Wargo <alwargo@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-02 13:10:38
Subject:GrantNet March - Arts & Humanities (fwd)
Message:


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:56:48 -0500
From: "Feldenkreiss, Mary" <felden@...>
To: GRANTNET_AH@...
Subject: GrantNet March - Arts & Humanities

AH-1353
New Jersey State Council on the Arts
Various Grant Programs

The New Jersey State Council on the Arts (NJSCA) awards grants on a highly
competitive basis, employing standardized criteria for eligibility and
evaluation published in guidelines and convening panels of independent
experts in the various fields of endeavor for objective feedback and
recommendations. Only non-profit organizations or New Jersey artists may be
considered for NJSCA funding. Generally, the grants are organized by the
artistic discipline of the applicant which, in addition to dance, theater,
music, crafts, etc., also includes arts basic to education, presenting
organizations and folk arts. Historically, grant recipients over-match the
Council's funding nearly 15:1.
Deadlines vary by program. Please visit the website for more information.
<http://www.njartscouncil.org/program2.html>
Deadline: Vary by program
  _____


AH-1354
National Endowment for the Arts
Funding Opportunities

The arts reflect the past, enrich the present, and imagine the future. The
National Endowment for the Arts, an investment in America's living cultural
heritage, serves the public good by nurturing the expression of human
creativity, supporting the cultivation of community spirit, and fostering
the recognition and appreciation of the excellence and diversity of our
nation's artistic accomplishments.
Please visit the website for various funding opportunities and programs.
Deadlines vary by program.
<http://www.arts.endow.gov>
Deadline: Vary by program

  _____

AH-1355
National Endowment for the Humanities
Grant and Fellowship Programs

The Endowment's mission is to enrich American cultural life by promoting the
study of history and culture. NEH grants typically go to individuals and
cultural institutions such as museums, archives, libraries, colleges,
universities, historical societies, public television and radio stations.
The grants:
* preserve and provide access to cultural and educational resources
* strengthen teaching and learning in schools and colleges
* promote research and original scholarship
* provide opportunities for lifelong learning
* strengthen the institutional base of the humanities
Deadlines vary by program. Please visit website for more informaiton.
<http://www.neh.fed.us/grants/guidelines.html>
Deadline: Vary by program

  _____

ID-1356
Spain Ministry of Education and Culture
Program for Cultural Cooperation

In the spring of 1983, the Spanish Government's Minister of Culture and a
distinguished group of Hispanicists from United States academic institutions
decided to create a Program for Cultural Cooperation between Spain's
Ministry of Education and Culture and US universities. The program was
officially inaugurated in October of that year. The program is designed to
promote closer ties between scholarly Hispanicism in the US in the areas of
humanities, social sciences, and the cultural and academic developments of
Spain. Projects oriented toward the dissemination of Spanish culture
throughout the academic systems of the US are reviewed for subsidy. Priority
is given to those proposals of high scholarly quality which will have an
important impact upon the field of Hispanicism, both regionally and
nationwide. Since its conception, the program has granted a considerable
amount of subsidies supporting a variety of events. Proposals encompass
visiting professorships; the publication of scholarly journals,
translations, and literary texts; symposia, film series, and exhibitions;
and dissertation scholarships. More than 300 US academic institutions have
benefited from these subsidies.
<http://www.umabroad.umn.edu/pub/pcc/pcc.html>
Deadline: 4/2/01
  _____



Mary Feldenkreiss
Information Specialist
Office of Research & Sponsored Programs
58 Bevier Road
Piscataway, NJ  08854-8010
ASB Annex II - Busch Campus
732/445-5096
732/445-3257
http://orsp.rutgers.edu







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1061
Sender:Anna Wargo <alwargo@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-02 13:10:47
Subject:GrantNet March - Education (fwd)
Message:


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:58:05 -0500
From: "Feldenkreiss, Mary" <felden@...>
To: GRANTNET_ED@...
Subject: GrantNet March - Education

ED-1288
American Educational Research Foundation
AERA Postdoctoral Fellows Program

With support from the National Science Foundation (NSF), the National Center
for Education Statistics (NCES), and the Office of Educational Research and
Improvement (OERI), the AERA Grants Program announces its POSTDOCTORAL
FELLOWSHIP PROGRAM. The program's goal is to build the capacity for
conducting quality quantitative research in education policy by providing
support and encouragement to promising scholars at the beginning of their
careers. The program enables researchers to engage in a year of postdoctoral
research and scholarship while working with a qualified mentor at an
institution of higher education. Minority researchers are strongly
encouraged to apply. The AERA Grants Program Postdoctoral Fellowships are
1-year, non- renewable fellowships that provide researchers an opportunity
to conduct independent research under the guidance of a qualified mentor,
preferably within a school of education at a host institution of higher
education. Research topics may cover a wide range of education
policy-related issues that include but are not limited to: school
persistence and career entry; teachers and teaching, including supply,
quality, and demand; policies and practices related to achievement; policies
and practices that influence student and parental attitudes; contextual
factors (individual, curricular, and school related) in education; education
in middle schools; educational participation and persistence (kindergarten
through graduate school); at-risk students; early childhood education; US
education in an international context; school finance; materials
(curriculum) development, research and informal science education;
undergraduate science, engineering, and mathematics education; the supply
(pipeline) of students taking mathematics and science courses from K-12;
research and career development; higher education; and the quality of
educational institutions.
Contact Jeanie Murdock (phone 805-964-5264 or email aera@...)
if you have questions.
Other deadlines are September 5, 2001 and January 5, 2002.
No website given
Deadline: 3/5/01
  _____


ED-1299
National Science Foundation
Elementary, Secondary, and Informal Education: Informal Science Education
and ASCEND Projects

Informal Science Education (ISE) activities provide rich and stimulating
opportunities outside formal school settings where individuals of all ages,
interests, and backgrounds increase their appreciation and understanding of
science, mathematics, engineering, and technology. ISE projects take place
in diverse environments (e.g., museums, zoos, arboreta, community centers,
homes) and involve the use of various media (e.g., broadcast, film,
interactive technology, print, exhibits). Projects typically are designed to
reach large audiences or to have the potential for significant national or
regional impact. To broaden its impact, ISE promotes collaborations among
organizations that have similar goals, especially when projects can bridge
the informal and formal education communities. Through collaborations,
partners combine their resources and expertise to develop effective
strategies for reaching target audiences. A special class of projects, NSF
After School Centers for Exploration and New Discovery (ASCEND), is part of
ISE's community-based program activities.
Informal Science Education Preliminary, No Later Than-March 5; Full-May 31
Preliminary, No Later Than-August 2; Full-November 15 Except for the
following: - ASCEND Projects Preliminary-August 14; Full-November 15
<http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2001/nsf0160/nsf0160.txt>
Deadline: 3/5/01

  _____

ED-1300
National Science Foundation
Elementary, Secondary, and Informal Education: Instructional Materials
Development (IMD)

Instructional Materials Development (IMD) projects create instructional
materials and student assessments that change classroom instruction and
assessment in grades preK-12, enabling students to acquire a sophisticated
understanding of science, mathematics, and technology. The materials
incorporate investigative, inquiry-based science, mathematics, and
technology (SMT) activities and align with national standards for content,
teaching, and assessment. IMD-supported materials promote the success of all
students and promote positive student attitudes toward science, mathematics,
and technology. Projects range from major revision of existing materials to
the creation of new ones; from a few modules at a single instructional level
to comprehensive curricula for several school years; from a focus on a
single topic to the integration of several SMT disciplines; and from
assessments embedded in classroom materials to the creation of assessment
items and full assessment programs that may be used by districts and states.
All projects include comprehensive plans for national dissemination and
implementation to ensure the use of the materials in numerous and diverse
settings.
<http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2001/nsf0160/nsf0160.txt>
Deadline: 5/9/01

  _____

ED-1301
National Science Foundation
Elementary, Secondary, and Informal Education: Teacher Enhancement (TE) and
Applied Research

Teacher Enhancement (TE) projects provide professional development
opportunities to broaden and deepen the disciplinary knowledge and
pedagogical skills of teachers, thus improving their ability to deliver rich
and challenging SMT education to all students. Through active involvement of
administrators, projects address the need to provide requisite resources to
support SMT education reform. TE supports projects that: (1) develop the
capacity of schools and teachers to implement a high-quality,
standards-based SMT program for all students; (2) develop leaders in
content, pedagogy, and professional development; (3) improve retention rates
of novice teachers during their initial years of teaching; (4) create
professional development materials for teachers; and (5) include innovative
applications and effective implementation of educational technologies.
Emphasis is placed on projects that focus on professional development of
teachers as a primary driver for implementing SMT education reform. Applied
Research. ESIE has a strong commitment to applied research that assesses the
effectiveness and impact of its programs in enhancing learning and
instruction in science, mathematics, and technology in both formal and
informal educational settings. The purpose of this effort is to ensure that
all ESIE programs are firmly grounded in a solid research base and that
their projects benefit from this knowledge. Applied research provides
important feedback for strengthening ESIE's portfolio and for identifying
new programmatic directions.
<http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2001/nsf0160/nsf0160.txt>
Deadline: 5/18/01

  _____

ID-1262
Department of Defense
National Security Education Program

Objectives of the program is to equip Americans with an understanding of
less commonly taught languages and cultures and enable the nation to remain
integrally involved in global issues related to U.S. National Security; to
build a critical base of future leaders both in government service and in
higher education, who have cultivated international relationships and worked
and studied alongside experts of other countries; to develop a cadre of
professionals with more than the traditional knowledge of language and
culture who can use this ability to help the U.S. make sound decisions on
and deal effectively with global issues related to U.S. National Security;
and to enhance institutional capacity and increase the number of faculty who
can educate U.S. citizens toward achieving these goals.
<http://www.ndu.edu/nsep/>
Deadline: 4/9/01
  _____


ID-1271
Department of State
Master's Degree Program in Business Administration for Croatia

The Office of Global Educational Programs of the Bureau of Educational and
Cultural Affairs in the Department of State announces an open competition
for an assistance award to support the Consortium of Faculties of Economics
in Croatia as the Consortium develops a full- time Master's Degree program
in Business Administration to be based in the city of Zadar. Core program
instruction for the MBA program will take place in Zadar during the second
year of the program, once a curriculum is developed in collaboration with
the Consortium of Faculties of Economics. Accredited post-secondary
educational institutions and other organizations meeting the provisions
described in IRS regulation 26 CFR 1.501(c) may submit proposals that
address these objectives. The means for achieving these objectives may
include curriculum development, faculty training, case study development,
consultation, research, distance education, internship training and
professional outreach to public and private sector managers and
entrepreneurs.
<http://exchanges.state.gov/education/rfgps/menu.htm>
Deadline: 4/27/01

  _____

ID-1287
American Educational Research Foundation
Research Fellows Program

With support from the National Science Foundation (NSF) and National Center
for Education Statistics (NCES), the American Educational Research
Association (AERA) Grants Program announces its Research Fellows Program.
The program provides opportunities for beginning researchers, including
advanced graduate students and researchers who have recently completed their
doctorate (within the last seven years), to focus on policy-related research
while in residence at either NCES or NSF. Research Fellows will work with
the agency's professional staff to become familiar with the agency's
programs and relevant databases. Each Research Fellow will be expected to
undertake a research project related to the agency's mission. Minority
researchers are strongly encouraged to apply. Background The AERA Grants
Program has two main objectives for the Research Fellows Program: (1) to
strengthen communications between U.S. scholars in the educational research
community and those in government agencies, and (2) to enhance the
capability of U.S. scholars to practice policy-relevant and basic research
using the rich data sources at NCES and NSF, including those focusing on
mathematics and science education issues.
Contact Jeanie Murdock (phone 805-964-5264 or email aera@...)
if you have questions.
Other deadlines are September 5, 2001 and January 5, 2002.
No website given
Deadline: 3/5/01
  _____

ID-1302
National Science Foundation
NSF Director's Award for Distinguished Teaching Scholars (DTS)

The National Science Foundation (NSF) seeks to promote improvements in the
education of undergraduates who enroll in science, mathematics, engineering,
or technology (SMET) courses. The NSF Director's Award for Distinguished
Teaching Scholars (DTS) recognizes and rewards individuals with
distinguished records of educating undergraduates while also contributing
significantly to the scholarship of a SMET discipline. DTS is part of NSF's
efforts to promote an academic culture that values and rewards members of
the community who contribute to both disciplinary scholarship and the SMET
education of undergraduates, including students who are not majoring in SMET
disciplines. The Director's Award is the highest honor bestowed by the NSF
for excellence in both teaching and research in SMET fields, or in
educational research related to these disciplines. The awards will be
conferred at a ceremony held at the National Science Foundation.
LETTER OF INTENT DUE DATE(S) (optional): March 30, 2001
FULL PROPOSAL DEADLINE(S): May 10, 2001
<http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2001/nsf0164/nsf0164.htm>
Deadline: 5/10/01
  _____


ID-1303
National Science Foundation
Course, Curriculum, and Laboratory Improvement (CCLI)

The Course, Curriculum, and Laboratory Improvement (CCLI) program seeks to
improve the quality of Science, Mathematics, Engineering, and Technological
(SMET) education for all students and targets activities affecting learning
environments, course content, curricula, and educational practices. The
program has three tracks: 1. Educational Materials Development (CCLI-EMD)
Projects are expected to produce innovative materials that incorporate
effective educational practices to improve student learning of science,
mathematics, engineering, and technology. Projects to develop textbooks,
software, or laboratory materials for commercial distribution are
appropriate. Two types of EMD projects will be supported: a) those that
intend to demonstrate the scientific and educational feasibility of an idea,
a "proof of concept" or prototype, and b) those based on prior experience
with a prototype that intend to fully develop the product or practice. Such
materials are expected to be disseminated nationally for adoption and
adaptation. 2. Adaptation and Implementation (CCLI-A&I) Projects are
expected to result in improved education in science, mathematics,
engineering and technology at academic institutions through adaptation and
implementation of exemplary materials, laboratory experiences, and/or
educational practices that have been developed and tested at other
institutions. Proposals may request funds in any budget category supported
by NSF, or may request funds to purchase only instrumentation. 3. National
Dissemination (CCLI-ND) Projects are expected to provide faculty with
professional development opportunities to enable them to introduce new
content into undergraduate courses and laboratories, and to explore
effective educational practices to improve their teaching effectiveness.
Projects should be designed to offer workshops, short courses, or similar
activities on a national scale in single or multiple disciplines.
LETTER OF INTENT DUE DATE(S) (optional): April 23, 2001
FULL PROPOSAL DEADLINE(S) :June 5, 2001 A&I Track
June 6, 2001 EMD and ND Tracks
<http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2001/nsf0158/nsf0158.htm>
Deadline: 6/5/01

  _____



Mary Feldenkreiss
Information Specialist
Office of Research & Sponsored Programs
58 Bevier Road
Piscataway, NJ  08854-8010
ASB Annex II - Busch Campus
732/445-5096
732/445-3257
http://orsp.rutgers.edu







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1062
Sender:"Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-03 00:18:04
Subject:Re: (RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF MEMBERS)
Message:

Paul,

I drew it straight out of the New Jersey Law Against Discrimination, NJSA
10:5-12.

I am fairly sure that it means sickle cell but I am not certain.  Our
purpose was to make clear that we do not tolerate any kind of
discrimination.

If we get the sense from the room that it (or any of the proposals) are
either too formalistic or top-down, it's outta there.  But having said that,
as the organization grows, there are a few things that need to be formally
set down.  One of them is that we expect new members that join us, like the
existing members, to have an ethic of NO discrimination  and NO abusive
behavior, and that a person who doesn't like these norms  will be talked to
about it.  The Statement of Rights and Reponsibilities, as we saw it, sets
this down without infringing vigorous debate or speech.

I am looking forward to hearing additional input about it on Saturday.

Flavio



----- Original Message -----
From: Paul McGee <shorepaulie@...>
To: <Groovemeister007@...>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 9:30 AM
Subject: (RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF MEMBERS)


> Groovie meister,  What's 'atypical cellular hereditary blood trait' doing
in
> here? Are you referring to sickle cells?  Don't you think you've gone a
bit
> too far?  We don't want to seem too formalistic and top-down...In Unity,
> Paul
>
>
> >From: Groovemeister007@...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [nbpc] MARCH 3 AGENDA-ITEM X (RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF
> >MEMBERS)
> >Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 23:48:57 -0000
> >
> >The Steering Committee presents for your consideration and approval
> >at the March 3, 2001 meeting the attached Statement of Rights and
> >Responsibilities.  (This is the last of the attachments concerning
> >the agenda).  Thanks for taking the time to look at them, and I hope
> >to see everyone there on Thursday!  -- Flavio
> >
> >
> >STATEMENT OF RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES
> >
> > The New Brunswick People's Campaign is an association
> >committed to inclusion of all persons who share its objectives, and
> >has adopted this Statement to foster this atmosphere of inclusion.
> >Nevertheless, mindful that vigorous political debate will necessarily
> >occur within this organization, these precepts are not meant to
> >stifle legitimate political debate in any manner.
> >
> > 1. No Campaign member may purposely, knowingly or
> >recklessly cause bodily injury to, or attempt to cause bodily injury
> >to:
> > (a) another Campaign member; or
> > (b) any person, while performing work for the Campaign.
> >
> > 2. No Campaign member may engage in threatening,
> >harassing, or menacing behavior toward:
> > (a) another Campaign member; or
> > (b) any person, while performing work for the Campaign.
> >
> > 3. Behavior is threatening, harassing, or menacing when:
> > (a) it creates actual fear or intimidation in the person
> >or persons to whom it is directed or in a person or persons who
> >actually see and/or hear the behavior in question; and
> > (b) a reasonable person would experience fear or
> >intimidation from such behavior.
> >
> > 4. No Campaign member may: (a) through speech or
> >conduct, express contempt or scorn for any person on account of their
> >race, creed, color, national origin, ancestry, age, marital status,
> >sex, affectional or sexual orientation, atypical cellular hereditary
> >blood trait, veteran status, liability for service in the Armed
> >Forces, or mental or physical disability; or (b) purposely,
> >knowingly, or recklessly discriminate against any person on account
> >of any of the traits set forth in section (a) hereof.   A Campaign
> >member who engages in such conduct does not do so on behalf of the
> >Campaign and may be sanctioned as provided in this Statement.
> >
> > 5. Any Campaign member aware of a possible violation of
> >this Statement shall personally discuss it with a Steering Committee
> >member, or with a person who promises to discuss it with a Steering
> >Committee member.
> >
> > 6. A Steering Committee member, after learning of a
> >possible violation, shall attempt to mediate or resolve the dispute
> >in consultation with other Steering Committee members.
> >
> > 7. If the intervention of the Steering Committee does
> >not resolve the situation, any Campaign member has the right to
> >present the issue formally to the Steering Committee, making the
> >specific charges under oath.  Such member may request sanctions, up
> >to and including expulsion of the alleged offender.  As with all
> >decisions of the Steering Committee, any person dissatisfied with the
> >Steering Committee's resolution may appeal the decision at a general
> >meeting.
> >
> > 8. The conduct described in Sections 1, 2, or 4 above,
> >if engaged in at a meeting, is per se conduct out of order, and the
> >Chair of such a meeting may sanction a person engaging in such
> >conduct, up to and including expelling him or her from the meeting.
> >As with all decisions of the Chair, any person dissatisfied with the
> >Chair's decision may appeal the decision to the membership.
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1063
Sender:"PETCO" <jmluceno@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-03 02:29:10
Subject:Re: Meeting agenda for Saturday, March 3
Message:

> XII. 	Announcement of Upcoming General Membership Meeting dates. 
> 
> 	The Campaign's meetings will be held on the last Saturday of 
> each month, unless holidays intervene.  Thus, the schedule of 
> meetings for the upcoming month is as follows.
> 
> March 31; April 28; June 2; June 30; July 28.

Heh. I can't wait to see who shows up for this one.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1065
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-05 15:07:27
Subject:Re: [nbpc] article
Message:

Keith- Great article- Though I would include aline toward the end drawing 
out the dialectical relationship and distinction between the local and 
national struggle...

ie:  "We too most utilize the lesser of two evil tactic [at the broader 
state and national level while building peoples democratic movement to sieze 
power at the local level]


as the only way to build our strength,
unity, and organization so that we can actually win democracy

--Matthew

----Original Message Follows----
From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: "nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com" <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [nbpc] article
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1980 18:04:33 -0500

This is my article for upcoming People' Campaign NewsPaper

McGreevy For Governor, New Jersey Must Not Be Bushwhacked

By Keith Joseph

The People's Campaign, progressives, revolutionaries, and anyone
interested in seeing the movement for democracy advance must support
McGreevy this November in the race for governor in New Jersey. Either of
the potential Republican candidates would be a disaster. Not only for
New Jersey but also for the entire nation. The National Republican
leadership has announced that the New Jersey gubernatorial election will
be an opportunity for Bush's appointment as President of the United
States to be legitimated. We can not allow this to happen. We must make
the defeat of the Republicans in this election a protest against Bush's
presidency as well as the electoral college that made it possible.
      The Green Party has threatened to run a candidate despite the fact
Nader's candidacy delivered the people into the bloody hands of Bush.
They continue to posture as progressives yet the results of their
efforts could not be more reactionary. They already assisted in giving
us Bush and now they threaten to do the same in New Jersey.
      Actively participating in McGreevy's campaign would allow the
People's Campaign and progressive forces to build momentum for the local
elections in New Brunswick and Newark in 2002. We will be able to
register voters and also make the connections and build the networks
necessary for our future efforts. The working class and democratic small
businesses, students and professionals are obviously the constituency we
are seeking, it should also be obvious that they are connected in some
way to the Democratic Party. One reason for this is that they understand
the lesser of two evil tactic very clearly. In this country most people
are voting against a politician rather than for one. We too most utilize
the lesser of two evil tactic, as the only way to build our strength,
unity, and organization so that we can actually win democracy. Clearly
and openly uniting with working people and democratic middle classes in
their opposition to Republican reaction at the national and statewide
level is the only path to unity at the local level against Mayor Cahil
in 2002.



To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

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_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1066
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-05 16:14:23
Subject:trying to contact DLJ
Message:

hi

I am looking for Darryl if anyone knows how I can get in touch with him via 
phone or email, please let me know.

Louise
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1067
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-05 16:25:41
Subject:Re: trying to contact DLJ
Message:

subverter@... is last e-mail address i have for daryle.



--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@h...> 
wrote:
> hi
> 
> I am looking for Darryl if anyone knows how I can get in touch with 
him via 
> phone or email, please let me know.
> 
> Louise
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1068
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-05 16:31:29
Subject:request for letters to editor concerning...
Message:

upcoming court case for cliff matt and myself. we need people' 
campaign membership to write up letters to the editors for the local 
papers on our behalf. 2-3 paragraphs is sufficient along with name 
address and phone # of author so papers can check source. people can 
e-mail me can_bush@... and i'll be able to get letters to 
papers. PC members should be able to have a dozen letters done in next 
few days.

joe 586.5535







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1069
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-05 16:59:16
Subject:education discussion group
Message:

Hi all

The Education/ youth program will be holding the first of a monthly 
discussion group on education in conjunction with our education program. On 
Sunday March 18 at 6pm at 136 Baldwin Street we discuss Chapter 2 in Paulo 
Friere's The Pedagogy of the Oppressed- (on the Banking concept of 
education). Let me know if you need a copy of the piece. We may show a short 
documentary as well.

Thanks

Louise & Sam
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1070
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-05 21:45:26
Subject:Re: [nbpc] trying to contact DLJ
Message:

Hey Lou,  DLJ's email address is 'subverter@...'.  he's seriously 
chasing the right around the country.  That should be the best way to get 
him.  Paul


>From: "Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@egroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] trying to contact DLJ
>Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 16:14:23 -0500
>
>hi
>
>I am looking for Darryl if anyone knows how I can get in touch with him via
>phone or email, please let me know.
>
>Louise
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1071
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-06 09:29:30
Subject:Re: article
Message:

Keith, I have a few concerns about your article...First, I'm not sure 
who your audience is.  I think the article will be most clear to 
revolutionaries who think electoral politics are important.   This 
paper will go out to New Brunswick residents in general. Very few NB 
voters to be prodded to vote democrat.  I think the main issue is 
whether people even decide to vote in gub. elections.  

The article also assumes the distinctions between rep and dem are 
obvious.  I don't know if they are unless you look at the issues. I 
agree with most of what you write, but I think we need to represent 
the issues as clearly as possible if people are going to think 
critically about fighting for democracy, much less revolution.   Paul

 


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> wrote:
> This is my article for upcoming People' Campaign NewsPaper
> 
> McGreevy For Governor, New Jersey Must Not Be Bushwhacked
> 
> By Keith Joseph
> 
> The People's Campaign, progressives, revolutionaries, and anyone
> interested in seeing the movement for democracy advance must support
> McGreevy this November in the race for governor in New Jersey. 
Either of
> the potential Republican candidates would be a disaster. Not only 
for
> New Jersey but also for the entire nation. The National Republican
> leadership has announced that the New Jersey gubernatorial election 
will
> be an opportunity for Bush's appointment as President of the United
> States to be legitimated. We can not allow this to happen. We must 
make
> the defeat of the Republicans in this election a protest against 
Bush's
> presidency as well as the electoral college that made it possible.
>      The Green Party has threatened to run a candidate despite the 
fact
> Nader's candidacy delivered the people into the bloody hands of 
Bush.
> They continue to posture as progressives yet the results of their
> efforts could not be more reactionary. They already assisted in 
giving
> us Bush and now they threaten to do the same in New Jersey.
>      Actively participating in McGreevy's campaign would allow the
> People's Campaign and progressive forces to build momentum for the 
local
> elections in New Brunswick and Newark in 2002. We will be able to
> register voters and also make the connections and build the networks
> necessary for our future efforts. The working class and democratic 
small
> businesses, students and professionals are obviously the 
constituency we
> are seeking, it should also be obvious that they are connected in 
some
> way to the Democratic Party. One reason for this is that they 
understand
> the lesser of two evil tactic very clearly. In this country most 
people
> are voting against a politician rather than for one. We too most 
utilize
> the lesser of two evil tactic, as the only way to build our 
strength,
> unity, and organization so that we can actually win democracy. 
Clearly
> and openly uniting with working people and democratic middle classes 
in
> their opposition to Republican reaction at the national and 
statewide
> level is the only path to unity at the local level against Mayor 
Cahil
> in 2002.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1072
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-06 12:24:49
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Transcript of the Joint Statement read by Janice K Bryant
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: siddharta5@...
To: FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Transcript of the Joint Statement read by Janice K 
Bryant
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:21:18 -0000
Transcript of the Joint Statement of the united movement for a free
Pacifica, read by WBAI's Janice K Bryant, Sunday, March 5, 2001
at the Pacifica National Board meeting in Houston, Texas.
==================================
My name is Janice K. Bryant. I'm a banned producer from WBAI
(applause and cheers) I was the line producer of Wake Up Call, the
morning show, for 6 years. The unpaid volunteer.
I'd like to make an aside. As far as the grievance procedures that
Ms. Wash spoke to, I know for a fact - this is not hearsay - I have
two grievances, alone. Sharan Harper's grievance has gone...she is
the fired producer of Wake Up Call...her grievance has gone to the
NLRB. And what they're...in February, as an unfair labor practice. It
was filed there by the union.
I have a statement here that I'm going to read, three minutes long.
It was put together by scores of people from accross the country,
from all five signal areas.
Fifty-two years ago, Lew Hill launched the Pacifica Network with a
vision. A vision of radio being used to foster peace, justice,
community and understanding among diverse peoples. 1949 was
an ominous moment in our history. Then as now, sinister forces
were on the rise in America. The Bomb had just been invented.
McCarthyism was gaining strength. A global empire was being
constructed by violence and deceit. Nonetheless, fearless, thought-
provoking exploration of the issues and ideas of the day was
Pacifica's guiding mission.
Today, we believe that mission is as relevant as ever. However, to
our deep dismay, that vision has been repreatedly betrayed in the
past ten years. Pacifica's National Board, and the bureaucracy it
spawned, has violated the trust of hundreds of thousands of loyal
listener-sponsors accross the country.
We denouce and condemn the following:
1) The firing and banning of hundreds of producers and volunteers.
2) The reduction of ethnic and cultural diversity of local programs.
3) The use of the gag rule to silence dissent.
4) The illegitimate nature of this Board: the presence of Board
members whose terms have expired (applause) and the illegal by-
laws changes of '97 that allowed the number of at-large directors
to greatly increase.
5) The complete and illegal exclusion of the local advisory boards
from the role they are supposed to play (applause) in Pacifica's
democratic governance.
6) Proposed new by-laws that would enable five Board members to
authorize the sale of a station
7) The sloppy management of finances and the lack of access to
Pacifica's financial records for the past six years.
8) The use of hostile, union-busting tactics at a network that has
always prided itself on its support of workers and their struggles.
9) The extension of the role of the Corporation for Public
Broadcasting in the finances and internal affairs of Pacifica.
10) The depoliticization of program content which abets the
rightward drift in US culture.
11) The recent hiring, for an unspecified sum of money, of a PR
firm that is being used to slander and defame Pacifica's critics.
12) The closure of KPFA for twenty-three days and for its armed
occupation during July-August 1999.
13} The Christmas Coup of WBAI that has led to the gutting of the
most successful, in terms of audience size, donations and
journalism awards, of Pacifica's five stations.
14) The extreme and unrelenting harassment and abuse of Amy
Goodman and the attempt to impose editorial control over her
award-winning news program.
15) The use of the race card...that's right, I said...the race card
to divide and pit people against each other.
(applause)
Several hundred people from around the country who love this
network have rallied to its defense in Houston this weekend. With
the exception of a half-dozen dissident Board members who
continue to defend Pacifica's democratic tradition, we found the
Board's behavior yesterday to be condescending and disingenuous.
Just now we've listened to you *seem* to regard our deep
concerns about has happened at WBAI in the past two weeks but
we're not really sure that you are listening to us. And it seems that
the Board's ruling majority is truly unable, or unwilling, to
understand the concerns of its growing legions of critics.
Our differences are irreconcilable. Irreconcilable. I'll say it
again, our differences are irreconcilable. The only thing we will
negotiate with you are the terms of your departure. (applause)
In the coming months we will be conducting an escalating
campaign of community organizing as well as massive, non-violent
direct action against the illegally seated Pacifica Board members.
We see around us a growing pro-democracy movement, both in
this country and around the world. (applause).
Pacifica is not a jukebox. It should be, and will be, at the
forefront of this movement, just as it has been at the forefront of
every major social justice movement in the past 50 years.
This can only begin to happen with your departure. We demand
that you step down and that the Pacifica Board be reconstituted
along democratic lines.
We say,...
(ALL) Resign Now!
(at this point the audience turns its back on the board at chants
"resign now!" then the chant morphs to "democracy now!" then
breaks into song "nananana nanana hey hey e-yyy goodbye"
nananana nananana hey hey eyy, resign"
(The singing crowd was ecorted out of the meeting room by
security guards)
________________________
http://www.radio4all.org
http://www.radio4all.org/freepacifica
Public PGP Block: http://www.radio4all.org/pgp/
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1073
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-06 18:06:05
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Building Bridges Pulled Off The Air
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: siddharta5@...
To: FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Building Bridges Pulled Off The Air
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 01:09:13 -0000

Friends: (report from Lyn Gerry)

Ken Nash and his guests on Building Bridges were pulled of the air
abruptly today by interim station manager Utrice Leid, who said
she believed that lies had been told by Ken and his guest, Rep.
Major Owens.

Ken opened the program by reading a statement condemning the
firing and banning of Mimi Rosenberg, his co-host, on Feb. 5. He
said that Mimi flatly denied the charges of violence made against
her by Utrice Leid, and that he believed that it was Utrice that
ought to apologize for her conduct since Dec 22, when Leid and
Pacifica Executive Director Bessie Wash changed the locks at
WBAI and a series of firings and bannings begun. At least 10
people have been banned from the station since that time.

Ken also said he refused to acknowledge the validity of Mimi's
banning, and that he felt obligated to report on what he described
as an injustice.

This lasted 2-3 minutes.

Following Ken's statement, Ken spoke with his phone guest Rep
Major Owens about WBAI, the labor rally Feb. 20, the banning of
Mimi and the general gagging of media in America, and the idea of
a people's media which has been exemplified by WBAI.

Owens asked, who owns the airwaves, and who owns a non-profit
institution? He says WBAI must be given a structure that fits it's
mission. As Rep. Owens is saying, "We must keep alive what
WBAI stands for, freedom of speech..." Utrice Leid is heard
entering the control room.

She said, "Major Owens, Major Owens".

Owens says"Hello" a few times, sounding confused as she is off
mike and there is a babble of voices in the background.

All sound stops at about six minutes into the program, and there is
dead air for a few seconds. When sound returns, Leid is
addressing Major Owens, "Hello, I'm here, " she says while Ken
Nash attempts to ID the show from off mike (or a turned off mike)

Then, dead air again, and music begins playing for about 6 min.

The engineer comes on about 12 min and introduces Utrice Leid,
after expressing support for her action.

Leid says that she "Just had to do something that she wished she
did not have to do" but had to "send a signal that enough is
enough."

She said that the program began "with what in effect is a false
statement and we have had enough of such false statements"
She went on to defend the management position, and her views.

For the rest of the hours she takes calls from listeners.

During the duration of her time on air, she insists that Rep.
Owens, Mumia Abu Jamal, Noam Chomsky, and others who have
made statements condemning the acts of WBAI/Pacifica have
been misinformed or duped. She mentions frequently that the truth
has not been told by critics of events at WBAI and accuses critics of
right-wing tactics, bad journalism.

Audio of the program is available on line
http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=2719

We hope to have a transcript available soon.

Lyn


         http://savewbai.tao.ca




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1074
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-07 10:15:50
Subject:NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
Message:

NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job 
Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01 
New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
By SHARON WATERS
STAFF WRITER 
NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist who ran unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the New Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of commissioners by the state Department of Community Affairs. 
Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's redevelopment and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink built. 
Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service to residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find out the reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing. 
"I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get completed as soon as possible," said Bright. 
HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes and build 198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the surrounding neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three units at 238 George St. began last month. 
Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 35 families who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining families -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI Coordinator John Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month. 
"There's a major problem when you evict people and there's no housing to move into," said Bright. 
HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some replacement housing before all residents had to move. But as the process matured, the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building of any replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn Patterson, director of the city's department of planning, community and economic development, has said. 
Housing Authority officials have said they will continue to work with residents to help them find alternative housing. 
Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 2005. 
Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by Keith A. Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City Council and one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill. 
Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 mayor's race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on various issues, including its appointed school board. 
Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday. 
Housing Authority officials said they look forward to working with Bright. 
"We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we expect that he will be an integral member of the board of commissioners," said Executive Director Kevin Quince. 
"I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," said the board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to cooperate with him." 
Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in mechanical engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the city's Republican Party. 
Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@thnt.com








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1075
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-05 16:11:43
Subject:grant writing workshop
Message:

Hi

There is a workshop on grantwriting coming up on March 19 6-9. There is room 
for a few people, if anyone is interested please call or email me.

Louise
545-7207
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1076
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-07 13:40:24
Subject:Fwd: My 16 March on Trenton flyer
Message:

March on Trenton to Defeat Racist Profiling & Police Brutality. I am working 
to sign on sponsors for the march we need $$, help getting out info, people 
to work on getting buses, people to get other organizations on board,...

I need people to immediately get in touch with their organizations to have 
them sponsor this march and get that info to me can_bush@... or call 
732.586.5535

Press conference in trenton on March 14 11:00-1:00 afternoon, all groups are 
welcome to write up press statements and attend - i am working to coordinate 
rides, we have plenty of room for any and all representatives to attend. If 
organizations cannot have a representative attend, I can still bring press 
statements.

Local organizing meeting is on attached flier, April 8 NB library.

get back to me soon.

joe smith
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

  ----------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1077
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-07 13:45:57
Subject:Fwd: My 16 March on Trenton flyer
Message:


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1078
Sender:"Barbara Horne" <aunatural@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-07 14:58:14
Subject:PLEASE SUPPORT!!! TOMORROW
Message:

E-Mail me and let me know if this event is inappropriate for this list,but 
it is a great series that needs support particularly from those in the New 
Brunswick community...Doc Long and Barbara Horne will be featured readers 
for the Poetry
of Political Change Reading Series.
FREE OF CHARGE
Thursday, March 8, 1999
7:30 - 10 p.m.
Recto Verso Book Store (on 2 short blocks from New Brunswick train Station)
90 Albany Street
New Brunswick
Open readings before and after; and a brief discussion of the craft of
political poetry.

copies of "all of me or so it seems" by Barbara Horne and "Release" by Lyric 
will be available for purchase.

Both books can also be found at www.sincerity.cc
and questions Contact the bookstore, 732 247 2324

The Poetry of Political Change Series happens only a few times a year. It 
examines the concept of "political" poetry and provides both writers and 
readers an opportunity to interact their thoughts ideas and actions...

TO BE REMOVED FROM THIS LIST PLEASE HIT REPLY AND PUT REMOVE IN THE 
E-MAIL!!!


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1079
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-07 18:28:10
Subject:Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
Message:

if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will 
immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing 
authority and demand that backwards, twisted whitman/difransesco 
board that appointed him comply with federal law that housing 
authority must consist of residents from public housing. bright is 
being used along with sucker soaries to build up a republican 
stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates black 
culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for crossroads. 
anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of 
republican state appointment then city council of NB appointing 
beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist apointed..." 
bright, you can't get that.

joe smith

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@u...> 
wrote:
> NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job 
> Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01 
> New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
> By SHARON WATERS
> STAFF WRITER 
> NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist who ran 
unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the New 
Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of commissioners 
by the state Department of Community Affairs. 
> Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's redevelopment 
and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink built. 
> Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service to 
residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find out the 
reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing. 
> "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get completed as 
soon as possible," said Bright. 
> HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes and build 
198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the surrounding 
neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new 
construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three units at 
238 George St. began last month. 
> Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 35 families 
who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining families 
-- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI Coordinator John 
Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month. 
> "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's no 
housing to move into," said Bright. 
> HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some replacement 
housing before all residents had to move. But as the process matured, 
the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building of any 
replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn Patterson, 
director of the city's department of planning, community and economic 
development, has said. 
> Housing Authority officials have said they will continue to work 
with residents to help them find alternative housing. 
> Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 2005. 
> Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by Keith A. 
Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six 
commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City Council and 
one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill. 
> Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 mayor's 
race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on various 
issues, including its appointed school board. 
> Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday. 
> Housing Authority officials said they look forward to working with 
Bright. 
> "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we expect that 
he will be an integral member of the board of commissioners," said 
Executive Director Kevin Quince. 
> "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," said the 
board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to cooperate with 
him." 
> Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in mechanical 
engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the city's 
Republican Party. 
> Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1080
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-07 18:28:31
Subject:Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
Message:

if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will 
immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing 
authority and demand that backwards, twisted whitman/difransesco 
board that appointed him comply with federal law that housing 
authority must consist of residents from public housing. bright is 
being used along with sucker soaries to build up a republican 
stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates black 
culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for crossroads. 
anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of 
republican state appointment then city council of NB appointing 
beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist apointed..." 
bright, you can't get that.

joe smith

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@u...> 
wrote:
> NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job 
> Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01 
> New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
> By SHARON WATERS
> STAFF WRITER 
> NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist who ran 
unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the New 
Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of commissioners 
by the state Department of Community Affairs. 
> Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's redevelopment 
and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink built. 
> Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service to 
residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find out the 
reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing. 
> "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get completed as 
soon as possible," said Bright. 
> HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes and build 
198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the surrounding 
neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new 
construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three units at 
238 George St. began last month. 
> Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 35 families 
who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining families 
-- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI Coordinator John 
Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month. 
> "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's no 
housing to move into," said Bright. 
> HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some replacement 
housing before all residents had to move. But as the process matured, 
the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building of any 
replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn Patterson, 
director of the city's department of planning, community and economic 
development, has said. 
> Housing Authority officials have said they will continue to work 
with residents to help them find alternative housing. 
> Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 2005. 
> Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by Keith A. 
Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six 
commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City Council and 
one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill. 
> Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 mayor's 
race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on various 
issues, including its appointed school board. 
> Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday. 
> Housing Authority officials said they look forward to working with 
Bright. 
> "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we expect that 
he will be an integral member of the board of commissioners," said 
Executive Director Kevin Quince. 
> "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," said the 
board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to cooperate with 
him." 
> Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in mechanical 
engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the city's 
Republican Party. 
> Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1081
Sender:citruswar@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-07 23:14:58
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
Message:

We must start somewhere if not now when, if not frank who? Before you call 
someone a sucker just remember your the one who forgot to duck. See you on 
the 19th. Curtis L.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1082
Sender:citruswar@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-07 23:22:48
Subject:Re: [nbpc] grant writing workshop
Message:

I would like to learn more about grantwriting Please count me in.Curtis L.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1083
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-07 16:06:59
Subject:Fwd: [motherlandcollective] Sounds of the City Submission Deadline - March 16
Message:

To all you art-housers looking for a stage in Newark, I recommend checking 
this out...Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: essenjovu@...
Reply-To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motherlandcollective] Sounds of the City Submission Deadline - 
March 16
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 00:07:09 -0000



NJPAC's Sounds of the City is scheduled to run every Thursday from
May 31 to August 30 (5-9PM) this upcoming summer.

We are currently accepting submissions from artists wishing to
perform.  Artists must submit an entry form along with their
material. Entry forms will be available at our meeting or on NJPAC's
website, www.njpac.org. I am also able to fax or mail forms out if I
receive contact information. DEADLINE FOR ALL SUBMISSIONS IS FRIDAY,
MARCH 16!!!!!

Check us out at www.NJPAC.org - Left side of home page (Latest News),
click on Sounds of the City!!!!


Many thanks for your support,

Lis Ssenjovu
Producer, Sounds of the City
essenjovu@...
973.274.1660









To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
motherlandcollective-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1084
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 00:40:24
Subject:Fwd: Artist Wins Latest Round in DC Federal Court by R Lederman
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: ARTISTpres@...
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Artist Wins Latest Round in DC Federal Court by R Lederman
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:04:13 EST

Artist Wins Latest Round in DC Federal Court
by Robert Lederman

Federal Judge denies U.S. government’s appeal in Lederman v United States 
of
America et al 99-3359
[1]

Ever want to hand out a few leaflets in front of the US Capital? Standing on
the Capitol building’s public sidewalk alongside a few tourists and
Congressmen on a drizzling 3/11/97 afternoon I imagined myself to be in the
most protected spot in America for such activity. Was I ever wrong.

The idea was to give out leaflets about NYC Mayor Rudolph Giuliani’s 
attacks
on artists’ First Amendment rights during Arts Advocacy Day. This event
brings thousands of cultural advocates, museum directors and arts lawyers to
D.C. each year. [2] After the Capitol Police arrested me for not having a
permit I promised to return after changing the law.

My trial in the D.C. criminal court ended in an acquittal. Afterwards, a
Federal lawsuit was filed with the expert help of the Washington DC ACLU’s
Neal Goldfarb and Art Spitzer. On 3/14/2000 U.S. District Judge Richard W.
Roberts issued a ruling in my favor declaring the permit requirement
unconstitutional.

For a mere two days during the year 2000 it was legal to hand out leaflets 
in
front of the Capitol without a permit. Then the Capitol Police changed their
rules, again making it illegal. Shortly afterwards the Washington DC ACLU
filed an appeal.

On 3/5/2001 Judge Roberts issued his second ruling in the case, upholding 
his
previous ruling and declaring the revised regulations to also be
unconstitutional. The defendants are expected to appeal to the DC Circuit
Appeals Court next.

Reading my copy of the First Amendment, the issue seems clear. "Congress
shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting 
the
free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press,
or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the
government for a redress of grievances". I don’t notice anything in those 
56
words about getting permission or a permit to hand out leaflets, do you?

Unfortunately our elected officials don’t seem to agree. We can’t have
citizens giving out leaflets now can we? What country do you think this is
America?

Here in NYC Mayor Giuliani is still up to his same old tricks. After losing
23 out of 23 First Amendment lawsuits in Federal Court what’s his latest
attempt to stop artistic freedom of speech? Crueliani wants to create a
decency commission to decide which art is appropriate for the Big Apple’s
world famous art museums.

If it seems strange that a man who married and divorced his cousin, cavorts
around town with his mistress at taxpayer expense, dumped his second wife on
live TV and wears specially-made ladies clothing for his frequent public 
drag
performances wants to create a decency commission - you’ve got to remember
this is New York City. If you’ve got the right connections, anything goes.

After being falsely arrested 40 times for holding up satirical portraits of
the Mayor while standing on a public street (and never being found guilty of
a single charge) I’ve come to appreciate the simple beauty of the First
Amendment.  Our founding fathers understood the urgent desire of those in
power to stop the little guy from ever having his say.

Will the government win it’s effort to stop terribly dangerous things like
leaflets and cardboard signs from being wielded by those lacking official
permission or corporate backing? Stay tuned brothers and sisters. If I’m 
not
mistaken future generations will wistfully look back on our present freedoms
as the golden age of free speech.

You gave a speech on a street corner, they will ask, awestruck. You handed
out a leaflet? You marched in a demonstration? You painted a satirical
picture of a politician, and they didn’t put you in a prison or have you
shot?

Let’s use our freedom of expression while we can. It’s still the most 
potent
weapon on earth.

Statement on the latest ruling by Washington DC ACLU’s, Neal Goldfarb:

"The regulation at issue in the lawsuit prohibits all demonstration activity
on large areas of the U.S. Capitol grounds, including the sidewalks adjacent
to the Capitol building. The decision by the U.S. District Court for the
District of Columbia accepted Mr. Lederman's argument that the regulation
violates the First Amendment. The court ruled that the portions of the
Capitol surrounding the Capitol building are a "public forum" in which the
government may not prohibit all free-speech activities. The court ruled that
the regulation was unconstitutional because it was not "narrowly tailored" 
to
protect the government's interest in maintaining security and preventing
congestion on the Capitol grounds.

If the government files an appeal, the appeal would be heard by the U.S.
Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit."

Contact numbers:
Neal Goldfarb (ACLU) (703) 412-6247
Art Spitzer (ACLU) (202) 457-0800
Robert Lederman (718) 743-3722

[1] Read the ruling:
U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia
Robert Lederman v. USA Civil Action No. 99-3359
Memorandum Opinion & Order filed March 5, 2001 by Judge Richard W. Roberts
http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/district-court-recent.html

[2] Arts Advocacy Day 2001 March 19-20 I plan to be there.

Washington Post article by Bill Miller 3/20/2000 on Lederman v United States
of America et al
http://sand.loper.org/~george/trends/2000/Mar/65.html

Lederman arrested at Brooklyn Museum
http://sand.loper.org/~george/trends/1999/Oct/97.html

Bush, Giuliani, Manhattan Institute, eugenics, West Nile Virus information
http://baltech.org/lederman/
http://baltech.org/lederman/spray/

Street artist information and artist lawsuits against Giuliani
http://www.openair.org/alerts/artist/nyc.html

Robert Lederman, President of A.R.T.I.S.T.
(Artists' Response to Illegal State Tactics)
ARTISTpres@...  (718) 743-3722





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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1085
Sender:"Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 01:34:46
Subject:RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
Message:

I sort of understand most of this, but hat are "sucker soaries"?

Erric Z.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: wacbush01@... [mailto:wacbush01@...]
  Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:28 PM
  To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job


  if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will
  immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing
  authority and demand that backwards, twisted whitman/difransesco
  board that appointed him comply with federal law that housing
  authority must consist of residents from public housing. bright is
  being used along with sucker soaries to build up a republican
  stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates black
  culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for crossroads.
  anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of
  republican state appointment then city council of NB appointing
  beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist apointed..."
  bright, you can't get that.

  joe smith

  --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@u...>
  wrote:
  > NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
  > Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01
  > New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
  > By SHARON WATERS
  > STAFF WRITER
  > NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist who ran
  unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the New
  Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of commissioners
  by the state Department of Community Affairs.
  > Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's redevelopment
  and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink built.
  > Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service to
  residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find out the
  reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing.
  > "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get completed as
  soon as possible," said Bright.
  > HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes and build
  198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the surrounding
  neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new
  construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three units at
  238 George St. began last month.
  > Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 35 families
  who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining families
  -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI Coordinator John
  Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month.
  > "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's no
  housing to move into," said Bright.
  > HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some replacement
  housing before all residents had to move. But as the process matured,
  the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building of any
  replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn Patterson,
  director of the city's department of planning, community and economic
  development, has said.
  > Housing Authority officials have said they will continue to work
  with residents to help them find alternative housing.
  > Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 2005.
  > Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by Keith A.
  Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six
  commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City Council and
  one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill.
  > Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 mayor's
  race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on various
  issues, including its appointed school board.
  > Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday.
  > Housing Authority officials said they look forward to working with
  Bright.
  > "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we expect that
  he will be an integral member of the board of commissioners," said
  Executive Director Kevin Quince.
  > "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," said the
  board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to cooperate with
  him."
  > Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in mechanical
  engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the city's
  Republican Party.
  > Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1086
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 04:03:07
Subject:Re: article
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> wrote:

Hey, sorry I can't directly help out with this stuff at the moment, 
myself.  But I'm sort of in the mood to offer some comments on this 
article ...

I think Paul's remarks about keeping in mind your audience are well 
taken.  In many ways, "revolutionaries" and "progressives" is 
redundant -- these sorts of people already support the Campaign, and 
are typically already well informed on the issues you're talking about 
here.

You might want to dig into, or make more explicit, the "Support 
Democrats on the State and Federal level, but not on the municipal 
level" argument, since it's probably the most valuable point in your 
article.

Also, I think, at least, that the Nader comments are sort of 
gratuitous.  The fact is probably that nearly everyone who voted for 
Nader in the student precincts also voted for the Campaign.  Rather 
than calling the Greens veiled reactionaries, you should probably 
point out how incredibly close the last two gubernatorial elections 
were.  When we're talking a difference of, what, 17,000 votes, the 
ability of a third party to even siphon off a thousand votes becomes a 
matter of real concern.  

(Of course, if DiFrancesco wins the primary, you'll probably see some 
people who really like Schundler bolting for third parties, claiming 
that DiFrancesco is too much of a bland, ideologically inert 
dealmaker)

Anyway,

TTYL,

Jeremy




> This is my article for upcoming People' Campaign NewsPaper
> 
> McGreevy For Governor, New Jersey Must Not Be Bushwhacked
> 
> By Keith Joseph
> 
> The People's Campaign, progressives, revolutionaries, and anyone
> interested in seeing the movement for democracy advance must support
> McGreevy this November in the race for governor in New Jersey. 
Either of
> the potential Republican candidates would be a disaster. Not only 
for
> New Jersey but also for the entire nation. The National Republican
> leadership has announced that the New Jersey gubernatorial election 
will
> be an opportunity for Bush's appointment as President of the United
> States to be legitimated. We can not allow this to happen. We must 
make
> the defeat of the Republicans in this election a protest against 
Bush's
> presidency as well as the electoral college that made it possible.
>      The Green Party has threatened to run a candidate despite the 
fact
> Nader's candidacy delivered the people into the bloody hands of 
Bush.
> They continue to posture as progressives yet the results of their
> efforts could not be more reactionary. They already assisted in 
giving
> us Bush and now they threaten to do the same in New Jersey.
>      Actively participating in McGreevy's campaign would allow the
> People's Campaign and progressive forces to build momentum for the 
local
> elections in New Brunswick and Newark in 2002. We will be able to
> register voters and also make the connections and build the networks
> necessary for our future efforts. The working class and democratic 
small
> businesses, students and professionals are obviously the 
constituency we
> are seeking, it should also be obvious that they are connected in 
some
> way to the Democratic Party. One reason for this is that they 
understand
> the lesser of two evil tactic very clearly. In this country most 
people
> are voting against a politician rather than for one. We too most 
utilize
> the lesser of two evil tactic, as the only way to build our 
strength,
> unity, and organization so that we can actually win democracy. 
Clearly
> and openly uniting with working people and democratic middle classes 
in
> their opposition to Republican reaction at the national and 
statewide
> level is the only path to unity at the local level against Mayor 
Cahil
> in 2002.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1087
Sender:b v <villavoice@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 09:09:27
Subject:Reply to Joe Smith
Message:

This is a reply to Joe Smith's message. The
intemperate tone bespeaks its incoherent message and
failure of foresight  regarding an analytical
assessment of its application for the benefit of New
Brunswick. In other words, it's plain  stupid.

The cavelier statements of Smith immediately begin
upon the announcement that Frank has been appointed to
the NBHA. Before even attending one meeting, he is
attacked. Moreover, this headstrong assault comes
after Bright states 1) a desire "to raise the level or
services" to public housing residents and 2) a review
of "the real estate deals" from the perspective of a
Housing Authority Commissioner.  

It is without question that such an orientation is a
far cry from the theory and praxis of current and past
board members on the authority. Anyone with an iota of
perspective would welcome Bright --what is the
effective alternative people???-- on the authority.
Frank will be one of seven commissioners on a 7-member
board; it is the federal conduit for funds regarding
the town's "redevelopment"  and it's budget and
fiduciary responsibilities are obver $100 million per
year. 

Further, the board position is not paid. In other
words, Frank will be performing this position for
free.  Yet, he is attacked as lacking "any
integrity/community concern." Is this a statement from
a wingnut?

This is really sad, not only for its ignorant
hyperbole, but also for the fact that Frank recently
sought to assist Joe Smith when those famous  criminal
matters arose in regards to the November election and
the mayor's aide, Kevin Jones. Talk about
appreciation!!

As for the appointment of Beatrice Harris, and the
convoluted, inane and ignorant statement that she "is
better" than Frank, I take issue. For one, Frank is
not getting a paycheck from the machine. Historically,
this has not been the case in regards to Harris. She
worked for the city in the Division of Inspections. If
one wishes to not consider that as a leash, then we
could consider the fact, that if she is indeed
retired, she is linked by her governmental pension. 
Further, the fact that she was on the Housing
Authority and a city employee, speaks to a conflict of
interest issue, one which was a rather readily
apparent losing legal issue if challenged. It is not
surprising that when the city smelled an incipient
challenge, she retired.  

Despite this, Joe Smith attacks the only person to
actually "seize power" from the machine, one who has
done so in an important institutional way. The Mayor
may say rather euphamistically "he would not be my
first choice", but a more revealing statement is city
council member Blanquita Valenti's cry of "Oh dear
God!"

In order to become a Housing Authority Commissioner,
one has to submit a statement of interest and undergo
a background check, including financial and criminal
investigations.  This Frank did, and he "opened up his
books" for the GOVERNMENT to see. Obviously he passed.
New Brunswick can be better for it, but it helps if
there is a "united front" of support.

Instead, those with criminal records, make rather
criminal statements. Good luck with your legal efforts
and other related matters, Joe.  You speak with
thunder, but lack the lightning in the hand.

Brian Villa


joe smith

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1088
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 13:30:02
Subject:RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
Message:

sucker soaries is the secretary of state in NJ. he was appointed by nazi 
whitman immediately following the media explosion about racist profiling. he 
is an afro-american that attempts to act as a shield for the white supremist 
organization known as NJ government. he has been with-holding critical funds 
for crossroads threatre for some time now, says he may, or may not, release 
money in june for financially troubled threatre that has been closed for 
around a year.

sucker made his claim to fame when shawn potts was shot in the back by NB 
police back in 91.

>From: "Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
>Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:34:46 -0500
>
>I sort of understand most of this, but hat are "sucker soaries"?
>
>Erric Z.
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: wacbush01@... [mailto:wacbush01@...]
>   Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:28 PM
>   To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
>
>
>   if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will
>   immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing
>   authority and demand that backwards, twisted whitman/difransesco
>   board that appointed him comply with federal law that housing
>   authority must consist of residents from public housing. bright is
>   being used along with sucker soaries to build up a republican
>   stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates black
>   culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for crossroads.
>   anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of
>   republican state appointment then city council of NB appointing
>   beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist apointed..."
>   bright, you can't get that.
>
>   joe smith
>
>   --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@u...>
>   wrote:
>   > NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
>   > Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01
>   > New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
>   > By SHARON WATERS
>   > STAFF WRITER
>   > NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist who ran
>   unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the New
>   Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of commissioners
>   by the state Department of Community Affairs.
>   > Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's redevelopment
>   and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink built.
>   > Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service to
>   residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find out the
>   reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing.
>   > "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get completed as
>   soon as possible," said Bright.
>   > HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes and build
>   198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the surrounding
>   neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new
>   construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three units at
>   238 George St. began last month.
>   > Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 35 families
>   who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining families
>   -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI Coordinator John
>   Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month.
>   > "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's no
>   housing to move into," said Bright.
>   > HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some replacement
>   housing before all residents had to move. But as the process matured,
>   the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building of any
>   replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn Patterson,
>   director of the city's department of planning, community and economic
>   development, has said.
>   > Housing Authority officials have said they will continue to work
>   with residents to help them find alternative housing.
>   > Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 2005.
>   > Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by Keith A.
>   Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six
>   commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City Council and
>   one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill.
>   > Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 mayor's
>   race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on various
>   issues, including its appointed school board.
>   > Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday.
>   > Housing Authority officials said they look forward to working with
>   Bright.
>   > "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we expect that
>   he will be an integral member of the board of commissioners," said
>   Executive Director Kevin Quince.
>   > "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," said the
>   board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to cooperate with
>   him."
>   > Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in mechanical
>   engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the city's
>   Republican Party.
>   > Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1089
Sender:"Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 13:49:29
Subject:RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
Message:

Thanks, the lack of punctuation and capitalization made it difficult to
determine that that was a proper name.

Erric Z.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: joseph smith [mailto:wacbush01@...]
  Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 1:30 PM
  To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job


  sucker soaries is the secretary of state in NJ. he was appointed by nazi
  whitman immediately following the media explosion about racist profiling.
he
  is an afro-american that attempts to act as a shield for the white
supremist
  organization known as NJ government. he has been with-holding critical
funds
  for crossroads threatre for some time now, says he may, or may not,
release
  money in june for financially troubled threatre that has been closed for
  around a year.

  sucker made his claim to fame when shawn potts was shot in the back by NB
  police back in 91.

  >From: "Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  >To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
  >Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
  >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:34:46 -0500
  >
  >I sort of understand most of this, but hat are "sucker soaries"?
  >
  >Erric Z.
  >   -----Original Message-----
  >   From: wacbush01@... [mailto:wacbush01@...]
  >   Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:28 PM
  >   To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  >   Subject: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
  >
  >
  >   if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will
  >   immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing
  >   authority and demand that backwards, twisted whitman/difransesco
  >   board that appointed him comply with federal law that housing
  >   authority must consist of residents from public housing. bright is
  >   being used along with sucker soaries to build up a republican
  >   stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates black
  >   culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for crossroads.
  >   anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of
  >   republican state appointment then city council of NB appointing
  >   beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist apointed..."
  >   bright, you can't get that.
  >
  >   joe smith
  >
  >   --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@u...>
  >   wrote:
  >   > NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
  >   > Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01
  >   > New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
  >   > By SHARON WATERS
  >   > STAFF WRITER
  >   > NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist who ran
  >   unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the New
  >   Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of commissioners
  >   by the state Department of Community Affairs.
  >   > Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's redevelopment
  >   and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink built.
  >   > Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service to
  >   residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find out the
  >   reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing.
  >   > "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get completed as
  >   soon as possible," said Bright.
  >   > HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes and build
  >   198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the surrounding
  >   neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new
  >   construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three units at
  >   238 George St. began last month.
  >   > Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 35 families
  >   who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining families
  >   -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI Coordinator John
  >   Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month.
  >   > "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's no
  >   housing to move into," said Bright.
  >   > HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some replacement
  >   housing before all residents had to move. But as the process matured,
  >   the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building of any
  >   replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn Patterson,
  >   director of the city's department of planning, community and economic
  >   development, has said.
  >   > Housing Authority officials have said they will continue to work
  >   with residents to help them find alternative housing.
  >   > Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 2005.
  >   > Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by Keith A.
  >   Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six
  >   commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City Council and
  >   one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill.
  >   > Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 mayor's
  >   race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on various
  >   issues, including its appointed school board.
  >   > Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday.
  >   > Housing Authority officials said they look forward to working with
  >   Bright.
  >   > "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we expect that
  >   he will be an integral member of the board of commissioners," said
  >   Executive Director Kevin Quince.
  >   > "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," said the
  >   board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to cooperate with
  >   him."
  >   > Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in mechanical
  >   engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the city's
  >   Republican Party.
  >   > Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
  >
  >
  >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >   To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
  >
  >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
  >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
  >
  >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
  >
  >
  >
  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >

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Post ID:1090
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 13:49:45
Subject:Re: Reply to Joe Smith
Message:

viya - what is that you're talking about. this appointment is of 
tremendous danger to the future community of NB. we do not advance our 
democratic demands of community control by having REPUBLICANS, how do 
you say, "seize power". didn't you learn that when you learned to write 
so unincoherently? bright frank has a primary agenda to build up a 
republican stranglehold, his statements regarding the housing 
authority, and an elected school board for that matter, only appeal to 
the people because at this time he has to. bf does not care for the 
tenants of public housing, anything republicans touch turns to 
tombstone - have you no eyes in your head viya? 

let alone the selection is against federal law which mandates that  
residents in public housing have representation on housing authority.

your's, and all, personal vendeta against current city machine must be 
understood as secondary to the rise of republican control over the 
institutions that govern our lives.

joe smith



--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., b v <villavoice@y...> wrote:
> This is a reply to Joe Smith's message. The
> intemperate tone bespeaks its incoherent message and
> failure of foresight  regarding an analytical
> assessment of its application for the benefit of New
> Brunswick. In other words, it's plain  stupid.
> 
> The cavelier statements of Smith immediately begin
> upon the announcement that Frank has been appointed to
> the NBHA. Before even attending one meeting, he is
> attacked. Moreover, this headstrong assault comes
> after Bright states 1) a desire "to raise the level or
> services" to public housing residents and 2) a review
> of "the real estate deals" from the perspective of a
> Housing Authority Commissioner.  
> 
> It is without question that such an orientation is a
> far cry from the theory and praxis of current and past
> board members on the authority. Anyone with an iota of
> perspective would welcome Bright --what is the
> effective alternative people???-- on the authority.
> Frank will be one of seven commissioners on a 7-member
> board; it is the federal conduit for funds regarding
> the town's "redevelopment"  and it's budget and
> fiduciary responsibilities are obver $100 million per
> year. 
> 
> Further, the board position is not paid. In other
> words, Frank will be performing this position for
> free.  Yet, he is attacked as lacking "any
> integrity/community concern." Is this a statement from
> a wingnut?
> 
> This is really sad, not only for its ignorant
> hyperbole, but also for the fact that Frank recently
> sought to assist Joe Smith when those famous  criminal
> matters arose in regards to the November election and
> the mayor's aide, Kevin Jones. Talk about
> appreciation!!
> 
> As for the appointment of Beatrice Harris, and the
> convoluted, inane and ignorant statement that she "is
> better" than Frank, I take issue. For one, Frank is
> not getting a paycheck from the machine. Historically,
> this has not been the case in regards to Harris. She
> worked for the city in the Division of Inspections. If
> one wishes to not consider that as a leash, then we
> could consider the fact, that if she is indeed
> retired, she is linked by her governmental pension. 
> Further, the fact that she was on the Housing
> Authority and a city employee, speaks to a conflict of
> interest issue, one which was a rather readily
> apparent losing legal issue if challenged. It is not
> surprising that when the city smelled an incipient
> challenge, she retired.  
> 
> Despite this, Joe Smith attacks the only person to
> actually "seize power" from the machine, one who has
> done so in an important institutional way. The Mayor
> may say rather euphamistically "he would not be my
> first choice", but a more revealing statement is city
> council member Blanquita Valenti's cry of "Oh dear
> God!"
> 
> In order to become a Housing Authority Commissioner,
> one has to submit a statement of interest and undergo
> a background check, including financial and criminal
> investigations.  This Frank did, and he "opened up his
> books" for the GOVERNMENT to see. Obviously he passed.
> New Brunswick can be better for it, but it helps if
> there is a "united front" of support.
> 
> Instead, those with criminal records, make rather
> criminal statements. Good luck with your legal efforts
> and other related matters, Joe.  You speak with
> thunder, but lack the lightning in the hand.
> 
> Brian Villa
> 
> 
> joe smith
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1091
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 13:54:03
Subject:[nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
Message:

el curtis - project tenant george berry has put foward that the tenants 
of public housing vote for their own representative in accordance with 
federal law. community control over housing!

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., citruswar@a... wrote:
> We must start somewhere if not now when, if not frank who? Before you call 
> someone a sucker just remember your the one who forgot to duck. See you on 
> the 19th. Curtis L.
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1092
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 15:09:42
Subject:RE: What is "Sucker Soaries"...
Message:

Erric, maybe I can esplain "Sucker Soaries" comment:

It is a not so endearing nick-name for Rev. Buster Soaries of the First 
Baptist Church in Somerset, who rose to state prominance after accepting the 
Secretary of State position under Gov. Hitman.  I hear he used to be a 
college activist at Rutgers, and know for certain that he gained a local 
spotlight after Sean Potts was murdered by the NBPD with a bullet to the 
back of the head (...1990?), courtesy of Officer Zane Grey (who last I heard 
was still on the force). Soaries led demonstrations denouncing this police 
killing, and many believe he used the platform for personal gain and to 
benefit his unusually substantial church--for instance, First Baptist Church 
somehow became the public relations mouthpiece for the NB/Franklin 
"Renaissance" DevCo projects. Over the years, he has been seen on many 
occasions escorting conservative Republican politicians around town, such as 
Whitman after she snatched the Gov. spot by suppressing the black vote and 
buying off certain black ministers.  More recently, he welcomed Bush2 into 
the area, who also took the election by suppressing the Black vote.  In 
grass-roots circles, he has been a source of uneasy tension, in part because 
the most active and consistant community member in the NB Coalition Against 
Police Brutality (formed in the wake of the police murder of Sissy Adams in 
1996), Curtis Warren, has been a loyal member of Soaries' parish for years.  
Because there was more to be gained from finding points of political & 
social unity with residents than in alienating potential allies by 
condemning their religious leaders, we tended to take a "hands-off" policy 
toward Soaries over the years, though our unity allowed us to struggle over 
particular issues as they came up, sometimes using humor to defuse internal 
tentions while pointing out differences.  But I think this started to become 
more unrealistic as Soaries' Star rose as Whitman's token "Black 
Conservative" spokesperson.  On the other hand, he has a bit of the Frank 
Bright syndrome in that his oppostition to the entrenched, bloody-handed 
Democratic Machine still causes him to ally himself, if temporarily, with 
local left/progressive/revolutionary organizations and causes--most recently 
introducing the Peoples' Campaign candidates to his predominantly black, 
middle-class parish.  Of course, his being African-American has led him to 
denounce such overtly racist state-policies like Profiling, as he himself 
has claimed to be a victim of this Gestapo tactic.

Particularly within NJFO & the Coalition, it's always been a matter of 
weighing the advantages & disadvantages of speaking out against Soaries' 
apparent self-promoting conservative agenda vs. exploiting the inherant 
contradictions between him and the NB Machine on the one hand, and the 
racist Republican Lords of our State on the other (the bigger enemy); all of 
which took second shift to the principle task of creating allies in the 
community.  However, the purists amongst us have long held that impure must 
only be condemned, and as aggressively as socially tolerable (kind of like 
religion) but in the process, I think they've done a fairly good job of 
isolating themselves from potential allies over the years...hence "Sucker 
Soaries".

Matthew Smith






----Original Message Follows----
From: "Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:34:46 -0500

I sort of understand most of this, but hat are "sucker soaries"?

Erric Z.
   -----Original Message-----
   From: wacbush01@... [mailto:wacbush01@...]
   Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:28 PM
   To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job


   if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will
   immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing
   authority and demand that backwards, twisted whitman/difransesco
   board that appointed him comply with federal law that housing
   authority must consist of residents from public housing. bright is
   being used along with sucker soaries to build up a republican
   stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates black
   culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for crossroads.
   anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of
   republican state appointment then city council of NB appointing
   beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist apointed..."
   bright, you can't get that.

   joe smith

   --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@u...>
   wrote:
   > NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
   > Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01
   > New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
   > By SHARON WATERS
   > STAFF WRITER
   > NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist who ran
   unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the New
   Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of commissioners
   by the state Department of Community Affairs.
   > Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's redevelopment
   and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink built.
   > Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service to
   residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find out the
   reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing.
   > "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get completed as
   soon as possible," said Bright.
   > HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes and build
   198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the surrounding
   neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new
   construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three units at
   238 George St. began last month.
   > Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 35 families
   who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining families
   -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI Coordinator John
   Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month.
   > "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's no
   housing to move into," said Bright.
   > HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some replacement
   housing before all residents had to move. But as the process matured,
   the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building of any
   replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn Patterson,
   director of the city's department of planning, community and economic
   development, has said.
   > Housing Authority officials have said they will continue to work
   with residents to help them find alternative housing.
   > Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 2005.
   > Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by Keith A.
   Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six
   commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City Council and
   one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill.
   > Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 mayor's
   race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on various
   issues, including its appointed school board.
   > Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday.
   > Housing Authority officials said they look forward to working with
   Bright.
   > "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we expect that
   he will be an integral member of the board of commissioners," said
   Executive Director Kevin Quince.
   > "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," said the
   board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to cooperate with
   him."
   > Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in mechanical
   engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the city's
   Republican Party.
   > Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...


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Post ID:1093
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 17:14:52
Subject:yes matthew wiegh those advantages
Message:

just as njfo~people's campaign wieghed the advantage of office space rather 
than organized base by nominating and swinging the vote for bright to be on 
steering committee in the first place. this act defeated community youth 
jason hankins, who led the survey team and never showed up again. then let's 
again weigh things, how 'bout the advantages of joining the republican party 
and becoming very active republican agents during last election, which no 
doubt padded bright's resume tremendously to now be in such position. you 
wanna weigh a defense of people's campaign platform for community control by 
BOL as an attack on el curtis because his first words after winning 
candidacy is how willing he is to work with J&J. then expel the most 
revolutionary aspect of the campaign, causing irreperable harm to the 
organizing effort ie., people's campaign couldn't even get the board of ed 
question on the ballot - they never turned in one signature. one more. let's 
weigh not doing any public events/organizing since the election vs. doing 
some. doing none comes in at real beat, doing anything comes in at leaps and 
bounds better than being real beat (take paul for example).

you keep wieghing the truth against what you can gain by it and i'd like to 
see your strong allies and who they LIE with. any criticism is better than 
none, like you or "your allies" ever said anything about sucker. now you 
know so much.

njfo~people's campaign should be saturating yourselves with self-criticism, 
how long before admitting brightsucker don't serve the people? how long 
after that before working to organize community base?

when is the production meeting?

joe smith


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] RE: What is "Sucker Soaries"...
>Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:09:42
>
>Erric, maybe I can esplain "Sucker Soaries" comment:
>
>It is a not so endearing nick-name for Rev. Buster Soaries of the First
>Baptist Church in Somerset, who rose to state prominance after accepting 
>the
>Secretary of State position under Gov. Hitman.  I hear he used to be a
>college activist at Rutgers, and know for certain that he gained a local
>spotlight after Sean Potts was murdered by the NBPD with a bullet to the
>back of the head (...1990?), courtesy of Officer Zane Grey (who last I 
>heard
>was still on the force). Soaries led demonstrations denouncing this police
>killing, and many believe he used the platform for personal gain and to
>benefit his unusually substantial church--for instance, First Baptist 
>Church
>somehow became the public relations mouthpiece for the NB/Franklin
>"Renaissance" DevCo projects. Over the years, he has been seen on many
>occasions escorting conservative Republican politicians around town, such 
>as
>Whitman after she snatched the Gov. spot by suppressing the black vote and
>buying off certain black ministers.  More recently, he welcomed Bush2 into
>the area, who also took the election by suppressing the Black vote.  In
>grass-roots circles, he has been a source of uneasy tension, in part 
>because
>the most active and consistant community member in the NB Coalition Against
>Police Brutality (formed in the wake of the police murder of Sissy Adams in
>1996), Curtis Warren, has been a loyal member of Soaries' parish for years.
>Because there was more to be gained from finding points of political &
>social unity with residents than in alienating potential allies by
>condemning their religious leaders, we tended to take a "hands-off" policy
>toward Soaries over the years, though our unity allowed us to struggle over
>particular issues as they came up, sometimes using humor to defuse internal
>tentions while pointing out differences.  But I think this started to 
>become
>more unrealistic as Soaries' Star rose as Whitman's token "Black
>Conservative" spokesperson.  On the other hand, he has a bit of the Frank
>Bright syndrome in that his oppostition to the entrenched, bloody-handed
>Democratic Machine still causes him to ally himself, if temporarily, with
>local left/progressive/revolutionary organizations and causes--most 
>recently
>introducing the Peoples' Campaign candidates to his predominantly black,
>middle-class parish.  Of course, his being African-American has led him to
>denounce such overtly racist state-policies like Profiling, as he himself
>has claimed to be a victim of this Gestapo tactic.
>
>Particularly within NJFO & the Coalition, it's always been a matter of
>weighing the advantages & disadvantages of speaking out against Soaries'
>apparent self-promoting conservative agenda vs. exploiting the inherant
>contradictions between him and the NB Machine on the one hand, and the
>racist Republican Lords of our State on the other (the bigger enemy); all 
>of
>which took second shift to the principle task of creating allies in the
>community.  However, the purists amongst us have long held that impure must
>only be condemned, and as aggressively as socially tolerable (kind of like
>religion) but in the process, I think they've done a fairly good job of
>isolating themselves from potential allies over the years...hence "Sucker
>Soaries".
>
>Matthew Smith
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
>Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:34:46 -0500
>
>I sort of understand most of this, but hat are "sucker soaries"?
>
>Erric Z.
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From: wacbush01@... [mailto:wacbush01@...]
>    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:28 PM
>    To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>    Subject: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
>
>
>    if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will
>    immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing
>    authority and demand that backwards, twisted whitman/difransesco
>    board that appointed him comply with federal law that housing
>    authority must consist of residents from public housing. bright is
>    being used along with sucker soaries to build up a republican
>    stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates black
>    culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for crossroads.
>    anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of
>    republican state appointment then city council of NB appointing
>    beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist apointed..."
>    bright, you can't get that.
>
>    joe smith
>
>    --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@u...>
>    wrote:
>    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
>    > Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01
>    > New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
>    > By SHARON WATERS
>    > STAFF WRITER
>    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist who ran
>    unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the New
>    Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of commissioners
>    by the state Department of Community Affairs.
>    > Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's redevelopment
>    and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink built.
>    > Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service to
>    residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find out the
>    reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing.
>    > "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get completed as
>    soon as possible," said Bright.
>    > HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes and build
>    198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the surrounding
>    neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new
>    construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three units at
>    238 George St. began last month.
>    > Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 35 families
>    who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining families
>    -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI Coordinator John
>    Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month.
>    > "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's no
>    housing to move into," said Bright.
>    > HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some replacement
>    housing before all residents had to move. But as the process matured,
>    the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building of any
>    replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn Patterson,
>    director of the city's department of planning, community and economic
>    development, has said.
>    > Housing Authority officials have said they will continue to work
>    with residents to help them find alternative housing.
>    > Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 2005.
>    > Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by Keith A.
>    Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six
>    commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City Council and
>    one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill.
>    > Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 mayor's
>    race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on various
>    issues, including its appointed school board.
>    > Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday.
>    > Housing Authority officials said they look forward to working with
>    Bright.
>    > "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we expect that
>    he will be an integral member of the board of commissioners," said
>    Executive Director Kevin Quince.
>    > "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," said the
>    board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to cooperate with
>    him."
>    > Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in mechanical
>    engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the city's
>    Republican Party.
>    > Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
>
>
>          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>    To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1094
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 21:25:47
Subject:Fwd: Re: NBHA
Message:



>From: FBright123@...
>To: wacbush01@...
>Subject: Re: NBHA
>Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:55:51 EST
>
>
>Dear Joe,
>
>I am sorry you feel threatened. Progress is a gradual process.
>
>Peace,
>
>Frank

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1095
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 21:44:05
Subject:Re: What is "Sucker Soaries"...
Message:

i hear sucker got kidnapped and beaten by people who became 
untollerable of him bein a rat

the place where you are furthest off is that brightsucker are not 
"allying themselves with local left", rather and get this - they are 
exploiting local left.

joe


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> Erric, maybe I can esplain "Sucker Soaries" comment:
> 
> It is a not so endearing nick-name for Rev. Buster Soaries of the 
First 
> Baptist Church in Somerset, who rose to state prominance after 
accepting the 
> Secretary of State position under Gov. Hitman.  I hear he used to be 
a 
> college activist at Rutgers, and know for certain that he gained a 
local 
> spotlight after Sean Potts was murdered by the NBPD with a bullet to 
the 
> back of the head (...1990?), courtesy of Officer Zane Grey (who last 
I heard 
> was still on the force). Soaries led demonstrations denouncing this 
police 
> killing, and many believe he used the platform for personal gain and 
to 
> benefit his unusually substantial church--for instance, First 
Baptist Church 
> somehow became the public relations mouthpiece for the NB/Franklin 
> "Renaissance" DevCo projects. Over the years, he has been seen on 
many 
> occasions escorting conservative Republican politicians around town, 
such as 
> Whitman after she snatched the Gov. spot by suppressing the black 
vote and 
> buying off certain black ministers.  More recently, he welcomed 
Bush2 into 
> the area, who also took the election by suppressing the Black vote. 
 In 
> grass-roots circles, he has been a source of uneasy tension, in part 
because 
> the most active and consistant community member in the NB Coalition 
Against 
> Police Brutality (formed in the wake of the police murder of Sissy 
Adams in 
> 1996), Curtis Warren, has been a loyal member of Soaries' parish for 
years.  
> Because there was more to be gained from finding points of political 
& 
> social unity with residents than in alienating potential allies by 
> condemning their religious leaders, we tended to take a "hands-off" 
policy 
> toward Soaries over the years, though our unity allowed us to 
struggle over 
> particular issues as they came up, sometimes using humor to defuse 
internal 
> tentions while pointing out differences.  But I think this started 
to become 
> more unrealistic as Soaries' Star rose as Whitman's token "Black 
> Conservative" spokesperson.  On the other hand, he has a bit of the 
Frank 
> Bright syndrome in that his oppostition to the entrenched, 
bloody-handed 
> Democratic Machine still causes him to ally himself, if temporarily, 
with 
> local left/progressive/revolutionary organizations and causes--most 
recently 
> introducing the Peoples' Campaign candidates to his predominantly 
black, 
> middle-class parish.  Of course, his being African-American has led 
him to 
> denounce such overtly racist state-policies like Profiling, as he 
himself 
> has claimed to be a victim of this Gestapo tactic.
> 
> Particularly within NJFO & the Coalition, it's always been a matter 
of 
> weighing the advantages & disadvantages of speaking out against 
Soaries' 
> apparent self-promoting conservative agenda vs. exploiting the 
inherant 
> contradictions between him and the NB Machine on the one hand, and 
the 
> racist Republican Lords of our State on the other (the bigger 
enemy); all of 
> which took second shift to the principle task of creating allies in 
the 
> community.  However, the purists amongst us have long held that 
impure must 
> only be condemned, and as aggressively as socially tolerable (kind 
of like 
> religion) but in the process, I think they've done a fairly good job 
of 
> isolating themselves from potential allies over the years...hence 
"Sucker 
> Soaries".
> 
> Matthew Smith
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@b...>
> Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> To: <nbpeoplescampaign@y...>
> Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:34:46 -0500
> 
> I sort of understand most of this, but hat are "sucker soaries"?
> 
> Erric Z.
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From: wacbush01@h... [mailto:wacbush01@h...]
>    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:28 PM
>    To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>    Subject: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
> 
> 
>    if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will
>    immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing
>    authority and demand that backwards, twisted whitman/difransesco
>    board that appointed him comply with federal law that housing
>    authority must consist of residents from public housing. bright 
is
>    being used along with sucker soaries to build up a republican
>    stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates black
>    culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for 
crossroads.
>    anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of
>    republican state appointment then city council of NB appointing
>    beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist 
apointed..."
>    bright, you can't get that.
> 
>    joe smith
> 
>    --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" 
<znowakowski@u...>
>    wrote:
>    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
>    > Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01
>    > New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
>    > By SHARON WATERS
>    > STAFF WRITER
>    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist who 
ran
>    unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the New
>    Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of 
commissioners
>    by the state Department of Community Affairs.
>    > Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's 
redevelopment
>    and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink 
built.
>    > Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service to
>    residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find out the
>    reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing.
>    > "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get 
completed as
>    soon as possible," said Bright.
>    > HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes and 
build
>    198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the surrounding
>    neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new
>    construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three units 
at
>    238 George St. began last month.
>    > Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 35 
families
>    who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining 
families
>    -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI Coordinator 
John
>    Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month.
>    > "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's no
>    housing to move into," said Bright.
>    > HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some replacement
>    housing before all residents had to move. But as the process 
matured,
>    the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building of any
>    replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn Patterson,
>    director of the city's department of planning, community and 
economic
>    development, has said.
>    > Housing Authority officials have said they will continue to 
work
>    with residents to help them find alternative housing.
>    > Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 2005.
>    > Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by Keith A.
>    Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six
>    commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City Council 
and
>    one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill.
>    > Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 
mayor's
>    race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on 
various
>    issues, including its appointed school board.
>    > Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday.
>    > Housing Authority officials said they look forward to working 
with
>    Bright.
>    > "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we expect 
that
>    he will be an integral member of the board of commissioners," 
said
>    Executive Director Kevin Quince.
>    > "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," said 
the
>    board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to cooperate 
with
>    him."
>    > Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in 
mechanical
>    engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the city's
>    Republican Party.
>    > Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
> 
> 
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> 
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1096
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 22:31:37
Subject:republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

the nj republican state dept. of community affairs' appointment of nb 
republican party chair Dim Liar to the nb housing authority board, is 
more than a violation of federal law requiring resident representation 
on the board. &more than kicking the ousted projects residents while 
theyre down. 

it is a republican party gubenatorial campaign maneuver to establish a 
republican stronghold, with skunk soaries & protege ("we have to start 
somewhere...") republican ClassWarrin,$r., in mcgreasy's backyard. 

the social democratic liberal posturing which put bush2 in the white 
house locally put dim liar in the housing authority, by boosting him & 
the nb republican party.

at the may'00 peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth 
activist jason hankins was nominated by block on lock for the final 
executive board seat. njfo ("for revolutionary democracy & 
socialism"), fiending (as now)after "office space" (rather than 
peoples' organization), backed the nb republican party chair dim liar 
(after(!) he had challenged joe smith's election as chair to elected 
board of education committee, on grounds that he is a communist.).

hankins lost & left, with him the outreach committee (motorcades...), 
and possible victory.

rather then relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to enlist 
 as republican party members for election day privileges. dim liar 
pimped this "artificial" support to his now real position.

rather than unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize 
power!, it is the republicans who have seized the position of power 
out of the "peoples'" campaign.

the nb "left bloc" must identify itself immediately, & drive the right 
from its organizations.  all imposters must be exposed and isolated.

dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & back george 
berry's call for elected resident representation.

all eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining 
projects residents (court hearing is 5april).

skunk soaries must immediately stop obstructing the $500,000 allocated 
 by the state legislature to crossroads theater.

protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, residence of nb republican party 
chair dim liar.

republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
revolutionaries unite! with the people.












-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1097
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 22:44:22
Subject:happy international women's day!
Message:

unite against imperialism & patriarchy!







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1098
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-07 12:55:05
Subject:March 26 Forum on Bush's Social Services Program
Message:

Charitable Choice or
        Compassionate �Convert�icism??

On January 29, 2001, G.W. Bush announced the creation of the first federal
office dedicated to the �integration of religious groups into federally
financed social services� (NY Times, 1/30/01).

The cornerstone of the �compassionate conservative� agenda, so-called
�faith-based initiatives� pose serious threats to the public safety net,
public sector employment, and civil rights in general.

What are the origins of the "charitable choice"? How is it linked to
prominent (and undercover) right-wing ideologues like John Ashcroft, Tommy
Thompson, and Charles Murray (of the 'Bell Curve' fame)? What is its
relationship to workfare? What does this mean for the principle of
separation between church and state?

AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY

What are we going to do about it???

Join us in for an interactive discussion
break down the myths and
examine the truth behind �charitable choice�
and the latest right-wing attack on democracy

with a presentation by Kristina Bas, NJFO member and former Rutgers student
activist

Monday, March 26, 2001 - 8 pm
Faculty Dining Room in the Douglass Cafe
Douglass College Center
FREE!

Sponsored by:
Women's Defense Coalition (WDC), the Caellian,
and the New Jersey Freedom Organization (NJFO)

for more info email: audreya@...




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1099
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 00:43:26
Subject:Re: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
Message:

I really don't want this to turn into a forum for a back and forth between 
the Smith brothers, but Joe, be real...BOL/SWORD/CDRP (or whatever pseudonym 
you guys decide to come up with next to describe the same few people) made a 
really bad judgement call attacking Curtis a minute after the public 
convention where he was nominated to run for City Council.  You've treated 
an incredibly dedicated community organizer like he's some blood sucking 
pariah, like the main enemy, because of one statement that appeared in the 
press, while totally ignoring his his entire track record.  Now, instead of 
recognizing it as the mistake it was you guys are falling over yourselves to 
justify it, and its really just coming off as mean spirited zealousness, and 
not in the least revolutionary or unifying.  That's why BOL was ejected from 
the campaign. Period.  You asked me to nominate you back into the Peoples' 
Campaign, and my response was what?...that you should be asking Curtis 
himself because he's the one you guys need to be working it out with since 
you've been dragging his name through the mud.  (I later found out that 
Louise told you the same thing.) I figured, if Curtis will find it in him to 
support you guys coming back in, then I would definitely support it too.  
Next thing I read is another series of verbal assaults coming from 
BOL/SWORD/CDRP members aimed at Curtis, so I guess that's your decision, and 
I think that you're just digging the hole deeper.  And this alone puts this 
self-promoting habit you guys have picked up as claiming heir to the 
"most-revolutionary" throne in a really disengenuous light...

And did you even read my entire letter about Soaries, or just enough to 
conclude that I, too, have violated your standard for purity, like sin.  So, 
why keep asking about a "production meeting", presumably for Unity & 
Struggle Newspaper...because it don't happen by declaration, like a machine 
(as in, mechanical one-sided application of theory, forgetting to put 
"Unity" first.)  Till then, I would say call your own damn meeting & see if 
Amiri Baraka shows up. Note: I tried to set your ideological leader up with 
a meeting with Baraka to resolve some unresolved differences between them, 
and know what?...He threw that in my face too...so PRODUCTION is secondary 
to the principle aspect which is TRANSFORMATION OF THE 
CONSCIOUSNESS...CHANGING PEOPLES MINDS...& not through coersion or 
intimidation or public ridicule...but we've been down this road 
before...Later bro, Matthew




----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 17:14:52 -0500

just as njfo~people's campaign wieghed the advantage of office space rather
than organized base by nominating and swinging the vote for bright to be on
steering committee in the first place. this act defeated community youth
jason hankins, who led the survey team and never showed up again. then let's
again weigh things, how 'bout the advantages of joining the republican party
and becoming very active republican agents during last election, which no
doubt padded bright's resume tremendously to now be in such position. you
wanna weigh a defense of people's campaign platform for community control by
BOL as an attack on el curtis because his first words after winning
candidacy is how willing he is to work with J&J. then expel the most
revolutionary aspect of the campaign, causing irreperable harm to the
organizing effort ie., people's campaign couldn't even get the board of ed
question on the ballot - they never turned in one signature. one more. let's
weigh not doing any public events/organizing since the election vs. doing
some. doing none comes in at real beat, doing anything comes in at leaps and
bounds better than being real beat (take paul for example).

you keep wieghing the truth against what you can gain by it and i'd like to
see your strong allies and who they LIE with. any criticism is better than
none, like you or "your allies" ever said anything about sucker. now you
know so much.

njfo~people's campaign should be saturating yourselves with self-criticism,
how long before admitting brightsucker don't serve the people? how long
after that before working to organize community base?

when is the production meeting?

joe smith


 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: [nbpc] RE: What is "Sucker Soaries"...
 >Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:09:42
 >
 >Erric, maybe I can esplain "Sucker Soaries" comment:
 >
 >It is a not so endearing nick-name for Rev. Buster Soaries of the First
 >Baptist Church in Somerset, who rose to state prominance after accepting
 >the
 >Secretary of State position under Gov. Hitman.  I hear he used to be a
 >college activist at Rutgers, and know for certain that he gained a local
 >spotlight after Sean Potts was murdered by the NBPD with a bullet to the
 >back of the head (...1990?), courtesy of Officer Zane Grey (who last I
 >heard
 >was still on the force). Soaries led demonstrations denouncing this police
 >killing, and many believe he used the platform for personal gain and to
 >benefit his unusually substantial church--for instance, First Baptist
 >Church
 >somehow became the public relations mouthpiece for the NB/Franklin
 >"Renaissance" DevCo projects. Over the years, he has been seen on many
 >occasions escorting conservative Republican politicians around town, such
 >as
 >Whitman after she snatched the Gov. spot by suppressing the black vote and
 >buying off certain black ministers.  More recently, he welcomed Bush2 into
 >the area, who also took the election by suppressing the Black vote.  In
 >grass-roots circles, he has been a source of uneasy tension, in part
 >because
 >the most active and consistant community member in the NB Coalition 
Against
 >Police Brutality (formed in the wake of the police murder of Sissy Adams 
in
 >1996), Curtis Warren, has been a loyal member of Soaries' parish for 
years.
 >Because there was more to be gained from finding points of political &
 >social unity with residents than in alienating potential allies by
 >condemning their religious leaders, we tended to take a "hands-off" policy
 >toward Soaries over the years, though our unity allowed us to struggle 
over
 >particular issues as they came up, sometimes using humor to defuse 
internal
 >tentions while pointing out differences.  But I think this started to
 >become
 >more unrealistic as Soaries' Star rose as Whitman's token "Black
 >Conservative" spokesperson.  On the other hand, he has a bit of the Frank
 >Bright syndrome in that his oppostition to the entrenched, bloody-handed
 >Democratic Machine still causes him to ally himself, if temporarily, with
 >local left/progressive/revolutionary organizations and causes--most
 >recently
 >introducing the Peoples' Campaign candidates to his predominantly black,
 >middle-class parish.  Of course, his being African-American has led him to
 >denounce such overtly racist state-policies like Profiling, as he himself
 >has claimed to be a victim of this Gestapo tactic.
 >
 >Particularly within NJFO & the Coalition, it's always been a matter of
 >weighing the advantages & disadvantages of speaking out against Soaries'
 >apparent self-promoting conservative agenda vs. exploiting the inherant
 >contradictions between him and the NB Machine on the one hand, and the
 >racist Republican Lords of our State on the other (the bigger enemy); all
 >of
 >which took second shift to the principle task of creating allies in the
 >community.  However, the purists amongst us have long held that impure 
must
 >only be condemned, and as aggressively as socially tolerable (kind of like
 >religion) but in the process, I think they've done a fairly good job of
 >isolating themselves from potential allies over the years...hence "Sucker
 >Soaries".
 >
 >Matthew Smith
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >----Original Message Follows----
 >From: "Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
 >Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
 >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:34:46 -0500
 >
 >I sort of understand most of this, but hat are "sucker soaries"?
 >
 >Erric Z.
 >    -----Original Message-----
 >    From: wacbush01@... [mailto:wacbush01@...]
 >    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:28 PM
 >    To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >    Subject: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
 >
 >
 >    if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will
 >    immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing
 >    authority and demand that backwards, twisted whitman/difransesco
 >    board that appointed him comply with federal law that housing
 >    authority must consist of residents from public housing. bright is
 >    being used along with sucker soaries to build up a republican
 >    stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates black
 >    culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for crossroads.
 >    anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of
 >    republican state appointment then city council of NB appointing
 >    beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist apointed..."
 >    bright, you can't get that.
 >
 >    joe smith
 >
 >    --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@u...>
 >    wrote:
 >    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
 >    > Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01
 >    > New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
 >    > By SHARON WATERS
 >    > STAFF WRITER
 >    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist who ran
 >    unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the New
 >    Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of commissioners
 >    by the state Department of Community Affairs.
 >    > Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's redevelopment
 >    and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink built.
 >    > Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service to
 >    residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find out the
 >    reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing.
 >    > "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get completed as
 >    soon as possible," said Bright.
 >    > HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes and build
 >    198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the surrounding
 >    neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new
 >    construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three units at
 >    238 George St. began last month.
 >    > Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 35 families
 >    who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining families
 >    -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI Coordinator John
 >    Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month.
 >    > "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's no
 >    housing to move into," said Bright.
 >    > HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some replacement
 >    housing before all residents had to move. But as the process matured,
 >    the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building of any
 >    replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn Patterson,
 >    director of the city's department of planning, community and economic
 >    development, has said.
 >    > Housing Authority officials have said they will continue to work
 >    with residents to help them find alternative housing.
 >    > Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 2005.
 >    > Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by Keith A.
 >    Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six
 >    commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City Council and
 >    one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill.
 >    > Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 mayor's
 >    race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on various
 >    issues, including its appointed school board.
 >    > Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday.
 >    > Housing Authority officials said they look forward to working with
 >    Bright.
 >    > "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we expect that
 >    he will be an integral member of the board of commissioners," said
 >    Executive Director Kevin Quince.
 >    > "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," said the
 >    board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to cooperate with
 >    him."
 >    > Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in mechanical
 >    engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the city's
 >    Republican Party.
 >    > Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
 >
 >
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 >
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 >
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 >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1100
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 14:01:23
Subject:Re: [nbpc] BV's gratuitous insults don't fly...
Message:

Brian- Before getting into any particulars of this debate regarding Frank's 
appointment, it needs to be stated that your gratuitous jab at Joe that 
"those with criminal records, make rather criminal statements" is way out of 
line and really undermines the legitamacy of your own position.  That said, 
I think that it is fair to question why an actual resident of the NB Homes 
was not appointed to this position--if there is a written clause that states 
that residents must have representation on the housing board, than how did 
Frank get the job?  & if he insists on staying, should we not be concerned 
that his "Republican-ness" won't eventually distract him from his democratic 
responsibilities to the people of NB?

Matthew Smith


----Original Message Follows----
From: b v <villavoice@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
CC: fbright123@..., villavoice@...
Subject: [nbpc] Reply to Joe Smith
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 06:09:27 -0800 (PST)

This is a reply to Joe Smith's message. The
intemperate tone bespeaks its incoherent message and
failure of foresight  regarding an analytical
assessment of its application for the benefit of New
Brunswick. In other words, it's plain  stupid.

The cavelier statements of Smith immediately begin
upon the announcement that Frank has been appointed to
the NBHA. Before even attending one meeting, he is
attacked. Moreover, this headstrong assault comes
after Bright states 1) a desire "to raise the level or
services" to public housing residents and 2) a review
of "the real estate deals" from the perspective of a
Housing Authority Commissioner.

It is without question that such an orientation is a
far cry from the theory and praxis of current and past
board members on the authority. Anyone with an iota of
perspective would welcome Bright --what is the
effective alternative people???-- on the authority.
Frank will be one of seven commissioners on a 7-member
board; it is the federal conduit for funds regarding
the town's "redevelopment"  and it's budget and
fiduciary responsibilities are obver $100 million per
year.

Further, the board position is not paid. In other
words, Frank will be performing this position for
free.  Yet, he is attacked as lacking "any
integrity/community concern." Is this a statement from
a wingnut?

This is really sad, not only for its ignorant
hyperbole, but also for the fact that Frank recently
sought to assist Joe Smith when those famous  criminal
matters arose in regards to the November election and
the mayor's aide, Kevin Jones. Talk about
appreciation!!

As for the appointment of Beatrice Harris, and the
convoluted, inane and ignorant statement that she "is
better" than Frank, I take issue. For one, Frank is
not getting a paycheck from the machine. Historically,
this has not been the case in regards to Harris. She
worked for the city in the Division of Inspections. If
one wishes to not consider that as a leash, then we
could consider the fact, that if she is indeed
retired, she is linked by her governmental pension.
Further, the fact that she was on the Housing
Authority and a city employee, speaks to a conflict of
interest issue, one which was a rather readily
apparent losing legal issue if challenged. It is not
surprising that when the city smelled an incipient
challenge, she retired.

Despite this, Joe Smith attacks the only person to
actually "seize power" from the machine, one who has
done so in an important institutional way. The Mayor
may say rather euphamistically "he would not be my
first choice", but a more revealing statement is city
council member Blanquita Valenti's cry of "Oh dear
God!"

In order to become a Housing Authority Commissioner,
one has to submit a statement of interest and undergo
a background check, including financial and criminal
investigations.  This Frank did, and he "opened up his
books" for the GOVERNMENT to see. Obviously he passed.
New Brunswick can be better for it, but it helps if
there is a "united front" of support.

. Good luck with your legal efforts
and other related matters, Joe.  You speak with
thunder, but lack the lightning in the hand.

Brian Villa


joe smith

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Post ID:1101
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-08 13:54:26
Subject:On fringe opinions
Message:

For anyone just checking out this list, Joe Smith was voted out of this 
democratic campaign by the steering committee after distributing a signed 
letter which contained baseless attacks on one of our candidates and 
Reverend Soaries.  By no means does Joe Smith represent the views of the 
People's Campaign as a whole. I don't think I need to ask permission to say 
this. This is for purposes of demarcation. Paul McGee, NJFO


>From: "joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
>Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 13:30:02 -0500
>
>sucker soaries is the secretary of state in NJ. he was appointed by nazi
>whitman immediately following the media explosion about racist profiling. 
>he
>is an afro-american that attempts to act as a shield for the white 
>supremist
>organization known as NJ government. he has been with-holding critical 
>funds
>for crossroads threatre for some time now, says he may, or may not, release
>money in june for financially troubled threatre that has been closed for
>around a year.
>
>sucker made his claim to fame when shawn potts was shot in the back by NB
>police back in 91.
>
> >From: "Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
> >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:34:46 -0500
> >
> >I sort of understand most of this, but hat are "sucker soaries"?
> >
> >Erric Z.
> >   -----Original Message-----
> >   From: wacbush01@... [mailto:wacbush01@...]
> >   Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:28 PM
> >   To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >   Subject: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
> >
> >
> >   if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will
> >   immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing
> >   authority and demand that backwards, twisted whitman/difransesco
> >   board that appointed him comply with federal law that housing
> >   authority must consist of residents from public housing. bright is
> >   being used along with sucker soaries to build up a republican
> >   stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates black
> >   culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for crossroads.
> >   anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of
> >   republican state appointment then city council of NB appointing
> >   beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist apointed..."
> >   bright, you can't get that.
> >
> >   joe smith
> >
> >   --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@u...>
> >   wrote:
> >   > NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
> >   > Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01
> >   > New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
> >   > By SHARON WATERS
> >   > STAFF WRITER
> >   > NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist who ran
> >   unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the New
> >   Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of commissioners
> >   by the state Department of Community Affairs.
> >   > Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's redevelopment
> >   and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink built.
> >   > Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service to
> >   residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find out the
> >   reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing.
> >   > "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get completed as
> >   soon as possible," said Bright.
> >   > HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes and build
> >   198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the surrounding
> >   neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new
> >   construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three units at
> >   238 George St. began last month.
> >   > Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 35 families
> >   who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining families
> >   -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI Coordinator John
> >   Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month.
> >   > "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's no
> >   housing to move into," said Bright.
> >   > HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some replacement
> >   housing before all residents had to move. But as the process matured,
> >   the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building of any
> >   replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn Patterson,
> >   director of the city's department of planning, community and economic
> >   development, has said.
> >   > Housing Authority officials have said they will continue to work
> >   with residents to help them find alternative housing.
> >   > Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 2005.
> >   > Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by Keith A.
> >   Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six
> >   commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City Council and
> >   one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill.
> >   > Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 mayor's
> >   race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on various
> >   issues, including its appointed school board.
> >   > Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday.
> >   > Housing Authority officials said they look forward to working with
> >   Bright.
> >   > "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we expect that
> >   he will be an integral member of the board of commissioners," said
> >   Executive Director Kevin Quince.
> >   > "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," said the
> >   board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to cooperate with
> >   him."
> >   > Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in mechanical
> >   engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the city's
> >   Republican Party.
> >   > Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
> >
> >
> >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
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> >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
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Post ID:1102
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 12:23:53
Subject:Re: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
Message:

you missed a couple of things...


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
>Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 05:43:26
>
>I really don't want this to turn into a forum for a back and forth between
>the Smith brothers, but Joe, be real...BOL/SWORD/CDRP (or whatever 
>pseudonym
>you guys decide to come up with next to describe the same few people) made 
>a
>really bad judgement call attacking Curtis a minute after the public
>convention where he was nominated to run for City Council.  You've treated
>an incredibly dedicated community organizer like he's some blood sucking
>pariah, like the main enemy, because of one statement that appeared in the
>press, while totally ignoring his his entire track record.  Now, instead of
>recognizing it as the mistake it was you guys are falling over yourselves 
>to
>justify it, and its really just coming off as mean spirited zealousness, 
>and
>not in the least revolutionary or unifying.  That's why BOL was ejected 
>from
>the campaign. Period.  You asked me to nominate you back into the Peoples'
>Campaign, and my response was what?...that you should be asking Curtis
>himself because he's the one you guys need to be working it out with since
>you've been dragging his name through the mud.  (I later found out that
>Louise told you the same thing.) I figured, if Curtis will find it in him 
>to
>support you guys coming back in, then I would definitely support it too.
>Next thing I read is another series of verbal assaults coming from
>BOL/SWORD/CDRP members aimed at Curtis, so I guess that's your decision, 
>and
>I think that you're just digging the hole deeper.  And this alone puts this
>self-promoting habit you guys have picked up as claiming heir to the
>"most-revolutionary" throne in a really disengenuous light...
>
>And did you even read my entire letter about Soaries, or just enough to
>conclude that I, too, have violated your standard for purity, like sin.  
>So,
>why keep asking about a "production meeting", presumably for Unity &
>Struggle Newspaper...because it don't happen by declaration, like a machine
>(as in, mechanical one-sided application of theory, forgetting to put
>"Unity" first.)  Till then, I would say call your own damn meeting & see if
>Amiri Baraka shows up. Note: I tried to set your ideological leader up with
>a meeting with Baraka to resolve some unresolved differences between them,
>and know what?...He threw that in my face too...so PRODUCTION is secondary
>to the principle aspect which is TRANSFORMATION OF THE
>CONSCIOUSNESS...CHANGING PEOPLES MINDS...& not through coersion or
>intimidation or public ridicule...but we've been down this road
>before...Later bro, Matthew
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
>Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 17:14:52 -0500
>
>just as njfo~people's campaign wieghed the advantage of office space rather
>than organized base by nominating and swinging the vote for bright to be on
>steering committee in the first place. this act defeated community youth
>jason hankins, who led the survey team and never showed up again. then 
>let's
>again weigh things, how 'bout the advantages of joining the republican 
>party
>and becoming very active republican agents during last election, which no
>doubt padded bright's resume tremendously to now be in such position. you
>wanna weigh a defense of people's campaign platform for community control 
>by
>BOL as an attack on el curtis because his first words after winning
>candidacy is how willing he is to work with J&J. then expel the most
>revolutionary aspect of the campaign, causing irreperable harm to the
>organizing effort ie., people's campaign couldn't even get the board of ed
>question on the ballot - they never turned in one signature. one more. 
>let's
>weigh not doing any public events/organizing since the election vs. doing
>some. doing none comes in at real beat, doing anything comes in at leaps 
>and
>bounds better than being real beat (take paul for example).
>
>you keep wieghing the truth against what you can gain by it and i'd like to
>see your strong allies and who they LIE with. any criticism is better than
>none, like you or "your allies" ever said anything about sucker. now you
>know so much.
>
>njfo~people's campaign should be saturating yourselves with self-criticism,
>how long before admitting brightsucker don't serve the people? how long
>after that before working to organize community base?
>
>when is the production meeting?
>
>joe smith
>
>
>  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: [nbpc] RE: What is "Sucker Soaries"...
>  >Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:09:42
>  >
>  >Erric, maybe I can esplain "Sucker Soaries" comment:
>  >
>  >It is a not so endearing nick-name for Rev. Buster Soaries of the First
>  >Baptist Church in Somerset, who rose to state prominance after accepting
>  >the
>  >Secretary of State position under Gov. Hitman.  I hear he used to be a
>  >college activist at Rutgers, and know for certain that he gained a local
>  >spotlight after Sean Potts was murdered by the NBPD with a bullet to the
>  >back of the head (...1990?), courtesy of Officer Zane Grey (who last I
>  >heard
>  >was still on the force). Soaries led demonstrations denouncing this 
>police
>  >killing, and many believe he used the platform for personal gain and to
>  >benefit his unusually substantial church--for instance, First Baptist
>  >Church
>  >somehow became the public relations mouthpiece for the NB/Franklin
>  >"Renaissance" DevCo projects. Over the years, he has been seen on many
>  >occasions escorting conservative Republican politicians around town, 
>such
>  >as
>  >Whitman after she snatched the Gov. spot by suppressing the black vote 
>and
>  >buying off certain black ministers.  More recently, he welcomed Bush2 
>into
>  >the area, who also took the election by suppressing the Black vote.  In
>  >grass-roots circles, he has been a source of uneasy tension, in part
>  >because
>  >the most active and consistant community member in the NB Coalition
>Against
>  >Police Brutality (formed in the wake of the police murder of Sissy Adams
>in
>  >1996), Curtis Warren, has been a loyal member of Soaries' parish for
>years.
>  >Because there was more to be gained from finding points of political &
>  >social unity with residents than in alienating potential allies by
>  >condemning their religious leaders, we tended to take a "hands-off" 
>policy
>  >toward Soaries over the years, though our unity allowed us to struggle
>over
>  >particular issues as they came up, sometimes using humor to defuse
>internal
>  >tentions while pointing out differences.  But I think this started to
>  >become
>  >more unrealistic as Soaries' Star rose as Whitman's token "Black
>  >Conservative" spokesperson.  On the other hand, he has a bit of the 
>Frank
>  >Bright syndrome in that his oppostition to the entrenched, bloody-handed
>  >Democratic Machine still causes him to ally himself, if temporarily, 
>with
>  >local left/progressive/revolutionary organizations and causes--most
>  >recently
>  >introducing the Peoples' Campaign candidates to his predominantly black,
>  >middle-class parish.  Of course, his being African-American has led him 
>to
>  >denounce such overtly racist state-policies like Profiling, as he 
>himself
>  >has claimed to be a victim of this Gestapo tactic.
>  >
>  >Particularly within NJFO & the Coalition, it's always been a matter of
>  >weighing the advantages & disadvantages of speaking out against Soaries'
>  >apparent self-promoting conservative agenda vs. exploiting the inherant
>  >contradictions between him and the NB Machine on the one hand, and the
>  >racist Republican Lords of our State on the other (the bigger enemy); 
>all
>  >of
>  >which took second shift to the principle task of creating allies in the
>  >community.  However, the purists amongst us have long held that impure
>must
>  >only be condemned, and as aggressively as socially tolerable (kind of 
>like
>  >religion) but in the process, I think they've done a fairly good job of
>  >isolating themselves from potential allies over the years...hence 
>"Sucker
>  >Soaries".
>  >
>  >Matthew Smith
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >From: "Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>  >Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
>  >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:34:46 -0500
>  >
>  >I sort of understand most of this, but hat are "sucker soaries"?
>  >
>  >Erric Z.
>  >    -----Original Message-----
>  >    From: wacbush01@... [mailto:wacbush01@...]
>  >    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:28 PM
>  >    To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >    Subject: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
>  >
>  >
>  >    if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will
>  >    immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing
>  >    authority and demand that backwards, twisted whitman/difransesco
>  >    board that appointed him comply with federal law that housing
>  >    authority must consist of residents from public housing. bright is
>  >    being used along with sucker soaries to build up a republican
>  >    stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates black
>  >    culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for crossroads.
>  >    anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of
>  >    republican state appointment then city council of NB appointing
>  >    beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist 
>apointed..."
>  >    bright, you can't get that.
>  >
>  >    joe smith
>  >
>  >    --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@u...>
>  >    wrote:
>  >    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
>  >    > Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01
>  >    > New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
>  >    > By SHARON WATERS
>  >    > STAFF WRITER
>  >    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist who ran
>  >    unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the New
>  >    Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of commissioners
>  >    by the state Department of Community Affairs.
>  >    > Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's redevelopment
>  >    and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink built.
>  >    > Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service to
>  >    residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find out the
>  >    reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing.
>  >    > "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get completed 
>as
>  >    soon as possible," said Bright.
>  >    > HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes and build
>  >    198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the surrounding
>  >    neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new
>  >    construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three units at
>  >    238 George St. began last month.
>  >    > Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 35 
>families
>  >    who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining 
>families
>  >    -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI Coordinator John
>  >    Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month.
>  >    > "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's no
>  >    housing to move into," said Bright.
>  >    > HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some replacement
>  >    housing before all residents had to move. But as the process 
>matured,
>  >    the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building of any
>  >    replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn Patterson,
>  >    director of the city's department of planning, community and 
>economic
>  >    development, has said.
>  >    > Housing Authority officials have said they will continue to work
>  >    with residents to help them find alternative housing.
>  >    > Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 2005.
>  >    > Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by Keith A.
>  >    Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six
>  >    commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City Council 
>and
>  >    one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill.
>  >    > Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 mayor's
>  >    race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on various
>  >    issues, including its appointed school board.
>  >    > Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday.
>  >    > Housing Authority officials said they look forward to working with
>  >    Bright.
>  >    > "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we expect that
>  >    he will be an integral member of the board of commissioners," said
>  >    Executive Director Kevin Quince.
>  >    > "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," said the
>  >    board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to cooperate with
>  >    him."
>  >    > Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in mechanical
>  >    engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the city's
>  >    Republican Party.
>  >    > Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
>  >
>  >
>  >          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  >
>  >
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>  >
>  >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1103
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 12:31:19
Subject:Re: [nbpc] On fringe opinions
Message:

curtis warren violated platform of "community control" in statements made to 
reporters that he stands by. stating he is willing to work with J&J. soaries 
is the secretary of state, appointed by nazi whitman, and is with-holding 
necessary funds for crossroads threatre - let alone his historical and day 
by day sell-out of the people of NB.



>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] On fringe opinions
>Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:54:26 -0000
>
>For anyone just checking out this list, Joe Smith was voted out of this
>democratic campaign by the steering committee after distributing a signed
>letter which contained baseless attacks on one of our candidates and
>Reverend Soaries.  By no means does Joe Smith represent the views of the
>People's Campaign as a whole. I don't think I need to ask permission to say
>this. This is for purposes of demarcation. Paul McGee, NJFO
>
>
> >From: "joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
> >Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 13:30:02 -0500
> >
> >sucker soaries is the secretary of state in NJ. he was appointed by nazi
> >whitman immediately following the media explosion about racist profiling.
> >he
> >is an afro-american that attempts to act as a shield for the white
> >supremist
> >organization known as NJ government. he has been with-holding critical
> >funds
> >for crossroads threatre for some time now, says he may, or may not, 
>release
> >money in june for financially troubled threatre that has been closed for
> >around a year.
> >
> >sucker made his claim to fame when shawn potts was shot in the back by NB
> >police back in 91.
> >
> > >From: "Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
> > >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:34:46 -0500
> > >
> > >I sort of understand most of this, but hat are "sucker soaries"?
> > >
> > >Erric Z.
> > >   -----Original Message-----
> > >   From: wacbush01@... [mailto:wacbush01@...]
> > >   Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:28 PM
> > >   To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >   Subject: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
> > >
> > >
> > >   if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will
> > >   immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing
> > >   authority and demand that backwards, twisted whitman/difransesco
> > >   board that appointed him comply with federal law that housing
> > >   authority must consist of residents from public housing. bright is
> > >   being used along with sucker soaries to build up a republican
> > >   stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates black
> > >   culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for crossroads.
> > >   anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of
> > >   republican state appointment then city council of NB appointing
> > >   beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist 
>apointed..."
> > >   bright, you can't get that.
> > >
> > >   joe smith
> > >
> > >   --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@u...>
> > >   wrote:
> > >   > NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
> > >   > Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01
> > >   > New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
> > >   > By SHARON WATERS
> > >   > STAFF WRITER
> > >   > NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist who ran
> > >   unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the New
> > >   Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of commissioners
> > >   by the state Department of Community Affairs.
> > >   > Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's redevelopment
> > >   and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink built.
> > >   > Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service to
> > >   residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find out the
> > >   reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing.
> > >   > "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get completed 
>as
> > >   soon as possible," said Bright.
> > >   > HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes and build
> > >   198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the surrounding
> > >   neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new
> > >   construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three units at
> > >   238 George St. began last month.
> > >   > Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 35 
>families
> > >   who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining 
>families
> > >   -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI Coordinator John
> > >   Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month.
> > >   > "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's no
> > >   housing to move into," said Bright.
> > >   > HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some replacement
> > >   housing before all residents had to move. But as the process 
>matured,
> > >   the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building of any
> > >   replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn Patterson,
> > >   director of the city's department of planning, community and 
>economic
> > >   development, has said.
> > >   > Housing Authority officials have said they will continue to work
> > >   with residents to help them find alternative housing.
> > >   > Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 2005.
> > >   > Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by Keith A.
> > >   Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six
> > >   commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City Council 
>and
> > >   one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill.
> > >   > Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 mayor's
> > >   race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on various
> > >   issues, including its appointed school board.
> > >   > Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday.
> > >   > Housing Authority officials said they look forward to working with
> > >   Bright.
> > >   > "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we expect that
> > >   he will be an integral member of the board of commissioners," said
> > >   Executive Director Kevin Quince.
> > >   > "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," said the
> > >   board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to cooperate with
> > >   him."
> > >   > Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in mechanical
> > >   engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the city's
> > >   Republican Party.
> > >   > Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
> > >
> > >
> > >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> > >
> > >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1104
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 12:36:24
Subject:Fwd: Re: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
Message:

>Provocateur, Explain your comment about me. Paul
>
>
>>From: "joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
>>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
>>Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 17:14:52 -0500
>>
>>just as njfo~people's campaign wieghed the advantage of office space 
>>rather
>>than organized base by nominating and swinging the vote for bright to be 
>>on
>>steering committee in the first place. this act defeated community youth
>>jason hankins, who led the survey team and never showed up again. then 
>>let's
>>again weigh things, how 'bout the advantages of joining the republican 
>>party
>>and becoming very active republican agents during last election, which no
>>doubt padded bright's resume tremendously to now be in such position. you
>>wanna weigh a defense of people's campaign platform for community control 
>>by
>>BOL as an attack on el curtis because his first words after winning
>>candidacy is how willing he is to work with J&J. then expel the most
>>revolutionary aspect of the campaign, causing irreperable harm to the
>>organizing effort ie., people's campaign couldn't even get the board of ed
>>question on the ballot - they never turned in one signature. one more. 
>>let's
>>weigh not doing any public events/organizing since the election vs. doing
>>some. doing none comes in at real beat, doing anything comes in at leaps 
>>and
>>bounds better than being real beat (take paul for example).
>>
>>you keep wieghing the truth against what you can gain by it and i'd like 
>>to
>>see your strong allies and who they LIE with. any criticism is better than
>>none, like you or "your allies" ever said anything about sucker. now you
>>know so much.
>>
>>njfo~people's campaign should be saturating yourselves with 
>>self-criticism,
>>how long before admitting brightsucker don't serve the people? how long
>>after that before working to organize community base?
>>
>>when is the production meeting?
>>
>>joe smith
>>
>>
>> >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>> >Subject: [nbpc] RE: What is "Sucker Soaries"...
>> >Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:09:42
>> >
>> >Erric, maybe I can esplain "Sucker Soaries" comment:
>> >
>> >It is a not so endearing nick-name for Rev. Buster Soaries of the First
>> >Baptist Church in Somerset, who rose to state prominance after accepting
>> >the
>> >Secretary of State position under Gov. Hitman.  I hear he used to be a
>> >college activist at Rutgers, and know for certain that he gained a local
>> >spotlight after Sean Potts was murdered by the NBPD with a bullet to the
>> >back of the head (...1990?), courtesy of Officer Zane Grey (who last I
>> >heard
>> >was still on the force). Soaries led demonstrations denouncing this 
>>police
>> >killing, and many believe he used the platform for personal gain and to
>> >benefit his unusually substantial church--for instance, First Baptist
>> >Church
>> >somehow became the public relations mouthpiece for the NB/Franklin
>> >"Renaissance" DevCo projects. Over the years, he has been seen on many
>> >occasions escorting conservative Republican politicians around town, 
>>such
>> >as
>> >Whitman after she snatched the Gov. spot by suppressing the black vote 
>>and
>> >buying off certain black ministers.  More recently, he welcomed Bush2 
>>into
>> >the area, who also took the election by suppressing the Black vote.  In
>> >grass-roots circles, he has been a source of uneasy tension, in part
>> >because
>> >the most active and consistant community member in the NB Coalition 
>>Against
>> >Police Brutality (formed in the wake of the police murder of Sissy Adams 
>>in
>> >1996), Curtis Warren, has been a loyal member of Soaries' parish for 
>>years.
>> >Because there was more to be gained from finding points of political &
>> >social unity with residents than in alienating potential allies by
>> >condemning their religious leaders, we tended to take a "hands-off" 
>>policy
>> >toward Soaries over the years, though our unity allowed us to struggle 
>>over
>> >particular issues as they came up, sometimes using humor to defuse 
>>internal
>> >tentions while pointing out differences.  But I think this started to
>> >become
>> >more unrealistic as Soaries' Star rose as Whitman's token "Black
>> >Conservative" spokesperson.  On the other hand, he has a bit of the 
>>Frank
>> >Bright syndrome in that his oppostition to the entrenched, bloody-handed
>> >Democratic Machine still causes him to ally himself, if temporarily, 
>>with
>> >local left/progressive/revolutionary organizations and causes--most
>> >recently
>> >introducing the Peoples' Campaign candidates to his predominantly black,
>> >middle-class parish.  Of course, his being African-American has led him 
>>to
>> >denounce such overtly racist state-policies like Profiling, as he 
>>himself
>> >has claimed to be a victim of this Gestapo tactic.
>> >
>> >Particularly within NJFO & the Coalition, it's always been a matter of
>> >weighing the advantages & disadvantages of speaking out against Soaries'
>> >apparent self-promoting conservative agenda vs. exploiting the inherant
>> >contradictions between him and the NB Machine on the one hand, and the
>> >racist Republican Lords of our State on the other (the bigger enemy); 
>>all
>> >of
>> >which took second shift to the principle task of creating allies in the
>> >community.  However, the purists amongst us have long held that impure 
>>must
>> >only be condemned, and as aggressively as socially tolerable (kind of 
>>like
>> >religion) but in the process, I think they've done a fairly good job of
>> >isolating themselves from potential allies over the years...hence 
>>"Sucker
>> >Soaries".
>> >
>> >Matthew Smith
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >----Original Message Follows----
>> >From: "Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
>> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>> >To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>> >Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
>> >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:34:46 -0500
>> >
>> >I sort of understand most of this, but hat are "sucker soaries"?
>> >
>> >Erric Z.
>> >    -----Original Message-----
>> >    From: wacbush01@... [mailto:wacbush01@...]
>> >    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:28 PM
>> >    To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>> >    Subject: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
>> >
>> >
>> >    if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will
>> >    immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing
>> >    authority and demand that backwards, twisted whitman/difransesco
>> >    board that appointed him comply with federal law that housing
>> >    authority must consist of residents from public housing. bright is
>> >    being used along with sucker soaries to build up a republican
>> >    stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates black
>> >    culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for crossroads.
>> >    anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of
>> >    republican state appointment then city council of NB appointing
>> >    beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist 
>>apointed..."
>> >    bright, you can't get that.
>> >
>> >    joe smith
>> >
>> >    --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@u...>
>> >    wrote:
>> >    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
>> >    > Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01
>> >    > New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
>> >    > By SHARON WATERS
>> >    > STAFF WRITER
>> >    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist who ran
>> >    unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the New
>> >    Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of commissioners
>> >    by the state Department of Community Affairs.
>> >    > Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's redevelopment
>> >    and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink built.
>> >    > Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service to
>> >    residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find out the
>> >    reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing.
>> >    > "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get completed 
>>as
>> >    soon as possible," said Bright.
>> >    > HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes and build
>> >    198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the surrounding
>> >    neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new
>> >    construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three units at
>> >    238 George St. began last month.
>> >    > Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 35 
>>families
>> >    who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining 
>>families
>> >    -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI Coordinator John
>> >    Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month.
>> >    > "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's no
>> >    housing to move into," said Bright.
>> >    > HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some replacement
>> >    housing before all residents had to move. But as the process 
>>matured,
>> >    the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building of any
>> >    replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn Patterson,
>> >    director of the city's department of planning, community and 
>>economic
>> >    development, has said.
>> >    > Housing Authority officials have said they will continue to work
>> >    with residents to help them find alternative housing.
>> >    > Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 2005.
>> >    > Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by Keith A.
>> >    Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six
>> >    commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City Council 
>>and
>> >    one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill.
>> >    > Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 mayor's
>> >    race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on various
>> >    issues, including its appointed school board.
>> >    > Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday.
>> >    > Housing Authority officials said they look forward to working with
>> >    Bright.
>> >    > "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we expect that
>> >    he will be an integral member of the board of commissioners," said
>> >    Executive Director Kevin Quince.
>> >    > "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," said the
>> >    board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to cooperate with
>> >    him."
>> >    > Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in mechanical
>> >    engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the city's
>> >    Republican Party.
>> >    > Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
>> >
>> >
>> >          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >    To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>> >
>> >    To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>> >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>> >
>> >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>> >
>> >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>> >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>> >
>> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_________________________________________________________________
>> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>> >
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1105
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 12:51:51
Subject:Fwd: Re: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
Message:

to paul, you are real beat. your sarcasm moves nothing foward, 
especially when it is pitted at people who are getting things done. 
although i, and infinite others, have been expelled from the people's 
campaign, i have done nothing but promote people's campaign platform 
and raise practical tasks we can accomplish as our relationship 
exists. joe

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <wacbush01@h...> wrote:
> 
> >Provocateur, Explain your comment about me. Paul
> >
> >
> >>From: "joseph smith" <wacbush01@h...>
> >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >>Subject: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
> >>Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 17:14:52 -0500
> >>
> >>just as njfo~people's campaign wieghed the advantage of office 
space 
> >>rather
> >>than organized base by nominating and swinging the vote for bright 
to be 
> >>on
> >>steering committee in the first place. this act defeated community 
youth
> >>jason hankins, who led the survey team and never showed up again. 
then 
> >>let's
> >>again weigh things, how 'bout the advantages of joining the 
republican 
> >>party
> >>and becoming very active republican agents during last election, 
which no
> >>doubt padded bright's resume tremendously to now be in such 
position. you
> >>wanna weigh a defense of people's campaign platform for community 
control 
> >>by
> >>BOL as an attack on el curtis because his first words after 
winning
> >>candidacy is how willing he is to work with J&J. then expel the 
most
> >>revolutionary aspect of the campaign, causing irreperable harm to 
the
> >>organizing effort ie., people's campaign couldn't even get the 
board of ed
> >>question on the ballot - they never turned in one signature. one 
more. 
> >>let's
> >>weigh not doing any public events/organizing since the election 
vs. doing
> >>some. doing none comes in at real beat, doing anything comes in at 
leaps 
> >>and
> >>bounds better than being real beat (take paul for example).
> >>
> >>you keep wieghing the truth against what you can gain by it and 
i'd like 
> >>to
> >>see your strong allies and who they LIE with. any criticism is 
better than
> >>none, like you or "your allies" ever said anything about sucker. 
now you
> >>know so much.
> >>
> >>njfo~people's campaign should be saturating yourselves with 
> >>self-criticism,
> >>how long before admitting brightsucker don't serve the people? how 
long
> >>after that before working to organize community base?
> >>
> >>when is the production meeting?
> >>
> >>joe smith
> >>
> >>
> >> >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
> >> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >> >Subject: [nbpc] RE: What is "Sucker Soaries"...
> >> >Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:09:42
> >> >
> >> >Erric, maybe I can esplain "Sucker Soaries" comment:
> >> >
> >> >It is a not so endearing nick-name for Rev. Buster Soaries of 
the First
> >> >Baptist Church in Somerset, who rose to state prominance after 
accepting
> >> >the
> >> >Secretary of State position under Gov. Hitman.  I hear he used 
to be a
> >> >college activist at Rutgers, and know for certain that he gained 
a local
> >> >spotlight after Sean Potts was murdered by the NBPD with a 
bullet to the
> >> >back of the head (...1990?), courtesy of Officer Zane Grey (who 
last I
> >> >heard
> >> >was still on the force). Soaries led demonstrations denouncing 
this 
> >>police
> >> >killing, and many believe he used the platform for personal gain 
and to
> >> >benefit his unusually substantial church--for instance, First 
Baptist
> >> >Church
> >> >somehow became the public relations mouthpiece for the 
NB/Franklin
> >> >"Renaissance" DevCo projects. Over the years, he has been seen 
on many
> >> >occasions escorting conservative Republican politicians around 
town, 
> >>such
> >> >as
> >> >Whitman after she snatched the Gov. spot by suppressing the 
black vote 
> >>and
> >> >buying off certain black ministers.  More recently, he welcomed 
Bush2 
> >>into
> >> >the area, who also took the election by suppressing the Black 
vote.  In
> >> >grass-roots circles, he has been a source of uneasy tension, in 
part
> >> >because
> >> >the most active and consistant community member in the NB 
Coalition 
> >>Against
> >> >Police Brutality (formed in the wake of the police murder of 
Sissy Adams 
> >>in
> >> >1996), Curtis Warren, has been a loyal member of Soaries' parish 
for 
> >>years.
> >> >Because there was more to be gained from finding points of 
political &
> >> >social unity with residents than in alienating potential allies 
by
> >> >condemning their religious leaders, we tended to take a 
"hands-off" 
> >>policy
> >> >toward Soaries over the years, though our unity allowed us to 
struggle 
> >>over
> >> >particular issues as they came up, sometimes using humor to 
defuse 
> >>internal
> >> >tentions while pointing out differences.  But I think this 
started to
> >> >become
> >> >more unrealistic as Soaries' Star rose as Whitman's token "Black
> >> >Conservative" spokesperson.  On the other hand, he has a bit of 
the 
> >>Frank
> >> >Bright syndrome in that his oppostition to the entrenched, 
bloody-handed
> >> >Democratic Machine still causes him to ally himself, if 
temporarily, 
> >>with
> >> >local left/progressive/revolutionary organizations and 
causes--most
> >> >recently
> >> >introducing the Peoples' Campaign candidates to his 
predominantly black,
> >> >middle-class parish.  Of course, his being African-American has 
led him 
> >>to
> >> >denounce such overtly racist state-policies like Profiling, as 
he 
> >>himself
> >> >has claimed to be a victim of this Gestapo tactic.
> >> >
> >> >Particularly within NJFO & the Coalition, it's always been a 
matter of
> >> >weighing the advantages & disadvantages of speaking out against 
Soaries'
> >> >apparent self-promoting conservative agenda vs. exploiting the 
inherant
> >> >contradictions between him and the NB Machine on the one hand, 
and the
> >> >racist Republican Lords of our State on the other (the bigger 
enemy); 
> >>all
> >> >of
> >> >which took second shift to the principle task of creating allies 
in the
> >> >community.  However, the purists amongst us have long held that 
impure 
> >>must
> >> >only be condemned, and as aggressively as socially tolerable 
(kind of 
> >>like
> >> >religion) but in the process, I think they've done a fairly good 
job of
> >> >isolating themselves from potential allies over the 
years...hence 
> >>"Sucker
> >> >Soaries".
> >> >
> >> >Matthew Smith
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >----Original Message Follows----
> >> >From: "Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@b...>
> >> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >> >To: <nbpeoplescampaign@y...>
> >> >Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing 
job
> >> >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:34:46 -0500
> >> >
> >> >I sort of understand most of this, but hat are "sucker soaries"?
> >> >
> >> >Erric Z.
> >> >    -----Original Message-----
> >> >    From: wacbush01@h... [mailto:wacbush01@h...]
> >> >    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:28 PM
> >> >    To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >> >    Subject: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing 
job
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >    if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will
> >> >    immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing
> >> >    authority and demand that backwards, twisted 
whitman/difransesco
> >> >    board that appointed him comply with federal law that 
housing
> >> >    authority must consist of residents from public housing. 
bright is
> >> >    being used along with sucker soaries to build up a 
republican
> >> >    stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates 
black
> >> >    culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for 
crossroads.
> >> >    anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of
> >> >    republican state appointment then city council of NB 
appointing
> >> >    beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist 
> >>apointed..."
> >> >    bright, you can't get that.
> >> >
> >> >    joe smith
> >> >
> >> >    --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" 
<znowakowski@u...>
> >> >    wrote:
> >> >    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
> >> >    > Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01
> >> >    > New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
> >> >    > By SHARON WATERS
> >> >    > STAFF WRITER
> >> >    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist 
who ran
> >> >    unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the 
New
> >> >    Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of 
commissioners
> >> >    by the state Department of Community Affairs.
> >> >    > Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's 
redevelopment
> >> >    and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink 
built.
> >> >    > Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service 
to
> >> >    residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find 
out the
> >> >    reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing.
> >> >    > "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get 
completed 
> >>as
> >> >    soon as possible," said Bright.
> >> >    > HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes 
and build
> >> >    198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the 
surrounding
> >> >    neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new
> >> >    construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three 
units at
> >> >    238 George St. began last month.
> >> >    > Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about 
35 
> >>families
> >> >    who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining 
> >>families
> >> >    -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI 
Coordinator John
> >> >    Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month.
> >> >    > "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's 
no
> >> >    housing to move into," said Bright.
> >> >    > HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some 
replacement
> >> >    housing before all residents had to move. But as the process 
> >>matured,
> >> >    the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building 
of any
> >> >    replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn 
Patterson,
> >> >    director of the city's department of planning, community and 
> >>economic
> >> >    development, has said.
> >> >    > Housing Authority officials have said they will continue 
to work
> >> >    with residents to help them find alternative housing.
> >> >    > Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22, 
2005.
> >> >    > Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by 
Keith A.
> >> >    Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six
> >> >    commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City 
Council 
> >>and
> >> >    one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill.
> >> >    > Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998 
mayor's
> >> >    race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on 
various
> >> >    issues, including its appointed school board.
> >> >    > Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday.
> >> >    > Housing Authority officials said they look forward to 
working with
> >> >    Bright.
> >> >    > "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we 
expect that
> >> >    he will be an integral member of the board of 
commissioners," said
> >> >    Executive Director Kevin Quince.
> >> >    > "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels," 
said the
> >> >    board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to 
cooperate with
> >> >    him."
> >> >    > Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in 
mechanical
> >> >    engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the 
city's
> >> >    Republican Party.
> >> >    > Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >    To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> >> >
> >> >    To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> >> >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> >> >
> >> >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> >> >
> >> >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> >> >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> >> >
> >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> 
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1106
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 12:59:56
Subject:Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
Message:

Thanks for clearing that up. I guess we have nothing in common. You and your 
bro make that abundantly clear. If the campaign and njfo and myself are so 
beat, then why do you spend so much time weighing in on our business? Why do 
you want real beat people to support you in court?  Why do you constantly 
berate people who would be your allies and then accuse me of holding back 
the movement with my sarcastic comments?

I'm done with these lists.

Paul

>From: wacbush01@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Fwd: Re: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
>Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 17:51:51 -0000
>
>to paul, you are real beat. your sarcasm moves nothing foward,
>especially when it is pitted at people who are getting things done.
>although i, and infinite others, have been expelled from the people's
>campaign, i have done nothing but promote people's campaign platform
>and raise practical tasks we can accomplish as our relationship
>exists. joe
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <wacbush01@h...> wrote:
> >
> > >Provocateur, Explain your comment about me. Paul
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: "joseph smith" <wacbush01@h...>
> > >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >>Subject: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
> > >>Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 17:14:52 -0500
> > >>
> > >>just as njfo~people's campaign wieghed the advantage of office
>space
> > >>rather
> > >>than organized base by nominating and swinging the vote for bright
>to be
> > >>on
> > >>steering committee in the first place. this act defeated community
>youth
> > >>jason hankins, who led the survey team and never showed up again.
>then
> > >>let's
> > >>again weigh things, how 'bout the advantages of joining the
>republican
> > >>party
> > >>and becoming very active republican agents during last election,
>which no
> > >>doubt padded bright's resume tremendously to now be in such
>position. you
> > >>wanna weigh a defense of people's campaign platform for community
>control
> > >>by
> > >>BOL as an attack on el curtis because his first words after
>winning
> > >>candidacy is how willing he is to work with J&J. then expel the
>most
> > >>revolutionary aspect of the campaign, causing irreperable harm to
>the
> > >>organizing effort ie., people's campaign couldn't even get the
>board of ed
> > >>question on the ballot - they never turned in one signature. one
>more.
> > >>let's
> > >>weigh not doing any public events/organizing since the election
>vs. doing
> > >>some. doing none comes in at real beat, doing anything comes in at
>leaps
> > >>and
> > >>bounds better than being real beat (take paul for example).
> > >>
> > >>you keep wieghing the truth against what you can gain by it and
>i'd like
> > >>to
> > >>see your strong allies and who they LIE with. any criticism is
>better than
> > >>none, like you or "your allies" ever said anything about sucker.
>now you
> > >>know so much.
> > >>
> > >>njfo~people's campaign should be saturating yourselves with
> > >>self-criticism,
> > >>how long before admitting brightsucker don't serve the people? how
>long
> > >>after that before working to organize community base?
> > >>
> > >>when is the production meeting?
> > >>
> > >>joe smith
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
> > >> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >> >Subject: [nbpc] RE: What is "Sucker Soaries"...
> > >> >Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:09:42
> > >> >
> > >> >Erric, maybe I can esplain "Sucker Soaries" comment:
> > >> >
> > >> >It is a not so endearing nick-name for Rev. Buster Soaries of
>the First
> > >> >Baptist Church in Somerset, who rose to state prominance after
>accepting
> > >> >the
> > >> >Secretary of State position under Gov. Hitman.  I hear he used
>to be a
> > >> >college activist at Rutgers, and know for certain that he gained
>a local
> > >> >spotlight after Sean Potts was murdered by the NBPD with a
>bullet to the
> > >> >back of the head (...1990?), courtesy of Officer Zane Grey (who
>last I
> > >> >heard
> > >> >was still on the force). Soaries led demonstrations denouncing
>this
> > >>police
> > >> >killing, and many believe he used the platform for personal gain
>and to
> > >> >benefit his unusually substantial church--for instance, First
>Baptist
> > >> >Church
> > >> >somehow became the public relations mouthpiece for the
>NB/Franklin
> > >> >"Renaissance" DevCo projects. Over the years, he has been seen
>on many
> > >> >occasions escorting conservative Republican politicians around
>town,
> > >>such
> > >> >as
> > >> >Whitman after she snatched the Gov. spot by suppressing the
>black vote
> > >>and
> > >> >buying off certain black ministers.  More recently, he welcomed
>Bush2
> > >>into
> > >> >the area, who also took the election by suppressing the Black
>vote.  In
> > >> >grass-roots circles, he has been a source of uneasy tension, in
>part
> > >> >because
> > >> >the most active and consistant community member in the NB
>Coalition
> > >>Against
> > >> >Police Brutality (formed in the wake of the police murder of
>Sissy Adams
> > >>in
> > >> >1996), Curtis Warren, has been a loyal member of Soaries' parish
>for
> > >>years.
> > >> >Because there was more to be gained from finding points of
>political &
> > >> >social unity with residents than in alienating potential allies
>by
> > >> >condemning their religious leaders, we tended to take a
>"hands-off"
> > >>policy
> > >> >toward Soaries over the years, though our unity allowed us to
>struggle
> > >>over
> > >> >particular issues as they came up, sometimes using humor to
>defuse
> > >>internal
> > >> >tentions while pointing out differences.  But I think this
>started to
> > >> >become
> > >> >more unrealistic as Soaries' Star rose as Whitman's token "Black
> > >> >Conservative" spokesperson.  On the other hand, he has a bit of
>the
> > >>Frank
> > >> >Bright syndrome in that his oppostition to the entrenched,
>bloody-handed
> > >> >Democratic Machine still causes him to ally himself, if
>temporarily,
> > >>with
> > >> >local left/progressive/revolutionary organizations and
>causes--most
> > >> >recently
> > >> >introducing the Peoples' Campaign candidates to his
>predominantly black,
> > >> >middle-class parish.  Of course, his being African-American has
>led him
> > >>to
> > >> >denounce such overtly racist state-policies like Profiling, as
>he
> > >>himself
> > >> >has claimed to be a victim of this Gestapo tactic.
> > >> >
> > >> >Particularly within NJFO & the Coalition, it's always been a
>matter of
> > >> >weighing the advantages & disadvantages of speaking out against
>Soaries'
> > >> >apparent self-promoting conservative agenda vs. exploiting the
>inherant
> > >> >contradictions between him and the NB Machine on the one hand,
>and the
> > >> >racist Republican Lords of our State on the other (the bigger
>enemy);
> > >>all
> > >> >of
> > >> >which took second shift to the principle task of creating allies
>in the
> > >> >community.  However, the purists amongst us have long held that
>impure
> > >>must
> > >> >only be condemned, and as aggressively as socially tolerable
>(kind of
> > >>like
> > >> >religion) but in the process, I think they've done a fairly good
>job of
> > >> >isolating themselves from potential allies over the
>years...hence
> > >>"Sucker
> > >> >Soaries".
> > >> >
> > >> >Matthew Smith
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >----Original Message Follows----
> > >> >From: "Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@b...>
> > >> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >> >To: <nbpeoplescampaign@y...>
> > >> >Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing
>job
> > >> >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:34:46 -0500
> > >> >
> > >> >I sort of understand most of this, but hat are "sucker soaries"?
> > >> >
> > >> >Erric Z.
> > >> >    -----Original Message-----
> > >> >    From: wacbush01@h... [mailto:wacbush01@h...]
> > >> >    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:28 PM
> > >> >    To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >> >    Subject: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing
>job
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >    if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will
> > >> >    immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing
> > >> >    authority and demand that backwards, twisted
>whitman/difransesco
> > >> >    board that appointed him comply with federal law that
>housing
> > >> >    authority must consist of residents from public housing.
>bright is
> > >> >    being used along with sucker soaries to build up a
>republican
> > >> >    stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates
>black
> > >> >    culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for
>crossroads.
> > >> >    anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of
> > >> >    republican state appointment then city council of NB
>appointing
> > >> >    beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist
> > >>apointed..."
> > >> >    bright, you can't get that.
> > >> >
> > >> >    joe smith
> > >> >
> > >> >    --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski"
><znowakowski@u...>
> > >> >    wrote:
> > >> >    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
> > >> >    > Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01
> > >> >    > New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
> > >> >    > By SHARON WATERS
> > >> >    > STAFF WRITER
> > >> >    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist
>who ran
> > >> >    unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the
>New
> > >> >    Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of
>commissioners
> > >> >    by the state Department of Community Affairs.
> > >> >    > Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's
>redevelopment
> > >> >    and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink
>built.
> > >> >    > Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service
>to
> > >> >    residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find
>out the
> > >> >    reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing.
> > >> >    > "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get
>completed
> > >>as
> > >> >    soon as possible," said Bright.
> > >> >    > HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes
>and build
> > >> >    198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the
>surrounding
> > >> >    neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new
> > >> >    construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three
>units at
> > >> >    238 George St. began last month.
> > >> >    > Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about
>35
> > >>families
> > >> >    who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining
> > >>families
> > >> >    -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI
>Coordinator John
> > >> >    Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month.
> > >> >    > "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's
>no
> > >> >    housing to move into," said Bright.
> > >> >    > HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some
>replacement
> > >> >    housing before all residents had to move. But as the process
> > >>matured,
> > >> >    the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building
>of any
> > >> >    replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn
>Patterson,
> > >> >    director of the city's department of planning, community and
> > >>economic
> > >> >    development, has said.
> > >> >    > Housing Authority officials have said they will continue
>to work
> > >> >    with residents to help them find alternative housing.
> > >> >    > Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22,
>2005.
> > >> >    > Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by
>Keith A.
> > >> >    Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six
> > >> >    commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City
>Council
> > >>and
> > >> >    one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill.
> > >> >    > Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998
>mayor's
> > >> >    race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on
>various
> > >> >    issues, including its appointed school board.
> > >> >    > Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday.
> > >> >    > Housing Authority officials said they look forward to
>working with
> > >> >    Bright.
> > >> >    > "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we
>expect that
> > >> >    he will be an integral member of the board of
>commissioners," said
> > >> >    Executive Director Kevin Quince.
> > >> >    > "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels,"
>said the
> > >> >    board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to
>cooperate with
> > >> >    him."
> > >> >    > Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in
>mechanical
> > >> >    engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the
>city's
> > >> >    Republican Party.
> > >> >    > Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >    To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > >> >
> > >> >    To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > >> >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> > >> >
> > >> >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>Service.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > >> >
> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > >> >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> > >> >
> > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > >> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com
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> > >>
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> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1107
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 13:15:12
Subject:Letter to SL RE: Frank Bright
Message:

Letter to the Star Ledger Editor

Regarding your editorial comparing New Brunswick's Republican Party 
Chairperson appointment to the city's Housing Authority to "seating a 
Marxist on the old House Un-American Activities Committee":  Frank Bright 
will certainly be a wrench in the well oiled gears of the corrupt Democratic 
Machine and its fast-track gentrification plans.  The city is now attempting 
to evict thirty-five more struggling families from public housing before 
promised replacement housing has been constructed.  The justification, as 
always, is that poor people stand in the way of market-rate development.  
New Brunswick's main street has long been a story of two city's--the side 
that caters to upper-income commuters and side where poor residents are left 
unemployed in rotting homes to be harassed by the NBPD.  But the Machine' 
class warfare against the people met serious resistance in the recent City 
Council Elections where the Peoples' Campaign ticket won a third of the 
votes.

Bright, far from a Marxist, was very involved with this challenge to the 
Democrats, working side by side with actual revolutionaries and progressives 
in a united-front for peoples' democracy and majority rule.  But Bright 
split after his right-wing social and political agenda caused him to loose 
his leadership position.  He must now be mindful of the democratic 
principles which galvanized our campaign, and immediately demand that an 
elected public housing resident be brought to the board, as the city has 
neglected to do.  He must also demand an immediate halt to the evictions.  
He should also be mindful that any anti-democratic Bushwhacking of these 
duties to the people will quickly bring him the same formidable grass-roots 
resistance that the Machine is now receiving.

Matthew Smith, Newark
Student at the New Jersey School of Architecture
& former New Brunswick Resident
(973) 454-4701

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1108
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 13:27:08
Subject:Re: Letter to SL RE: Frank Bright
Message:

it is incomprehensible to state that a republican operative will be a 
"wrench in the gears of gentrification plans". that bright worked 
"side-by-side with revolutionaries for democracy".

bright openly exploited progressive unrest to fill his republican 
organization. to promote his right wing agenda. his attacks on 
democratic corruption, like bush's, were always from the right. he 
never concealed this.

at the pc convention, he attacked joe smith's election to the steering 
committee as chair of the elected school board committee, on the 
grounds that joe was a marxist.

after(!) this, njfo backed his election to the steering committee as 
against local youth activist jason hankins, who was nominated by 
block-on-lock. why? he dangled an office before them, and the petty 
leadership of njfo has never failed to put material gain before 
peoples organization.

after the convention, before we touched on warren's sellout, we 
submitted an expose' of bright's counter-revolutionary agenda to the 
steering committee. it was ignored.




--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> Letter to the Star Ledger Editor
> 
> Regarding your editorial comparing New Brunswick's Republican Party 
> Chairperson appointment to the city's Housing Authority to "seating 
a 
> Marxist on the old House Un-American Activities Committee":  Frank 
Bright 
> will certainly be a wrench in the well oiled gears of the corrupt 
Democratic 
> Machine and its fast-track gentrification plans.  The city is now 
attempting 
> to evict thirty-five more struggling families from public housing 
before 
> promised replacement housing has been constructed.  The 
justification, as 
> always, is that poor people stand in the way of market-rate 
development.  
> New Brunswick's main street has long been a story of two city's--the 
side 
> that caters to upper-income commuters and side where poor residents 
are left 
> unemployed in rotting homes to be harassed by the NBPD.  But the 
Machine' 
> class warfare against the people met serious resistance in the 
recent City 
> Council Elections where the Peoples' Campaign ticket won a third of 
the 
> votes.
> 
> Bright, far from a Marxist, was very involved with this challenge to 
the 
> Democrats, working side by side with actual revolutionaries and 
progressives 
> in a united-front for peoples' democracy and majority rule.  But 
Bright 
> split after his right-wing social and political agenda caused him to 
loose 
> his leadership position.  He must now be mindful of the democratic 
> principles which galvanized our campaign, and immediately demand 
that an 
> elected public housing resident be brought to the board, as the city 
has 
> neglected to do.  He must also demand an immediate halt to the 
evictions.  
> He should also be mindful that any anti-democratic Bushwhacking of 
these 
> duties to the people will quickly bring him the same formidable 
grass-roots 
> resistance that the Machine is now receiving.
> 
> Matthew Smith, Newark
> Student at the New Jersey School of Architecture
> & former New Brunswick Resident
> (973) 454-4701
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1109
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 13:34:56
Subject:ledger praises republican housing appointment
Message:



                Balance in New Brunswick 

                03/09/01

                Few agencies have had as much influence on New
                Brunswick and its evolution in recent years as the
                city's powerful Housing and Redevelopment
                Authority. 

                It approves or rejects all redevelopment projects and
                oversees public housing in New Brunswick, where
                political clout has long been locked up by the local
                Democratic machine. 

                So filling a vacancy on the authority with a man who
                not only is a prominent city gadfly, but also the head
                of its feeble Republican Party, is tantamount to
                seating a Marxist on the old House un-American
                Activities Committee. 

                The appointment of Frank Bright promises to bring
                new meaning to the term "lively discussion" at
                authority meetings. The 34-year-old mechanical
                engineer is known for prickly public attacks on city
                Democrats. 

                The public should be the beneficiary. Real diversity
                on a powerful public board is always an asset. It
                makes it far more likely that there will be genuine
                debate on important issues -- and public scrutiny of
                official actions. 

                 Subscriptions & Contacts | Archives | Personals | 
Obituaries 

                   2001 The Star-Ledger. Used with permission.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1110
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 13:39:49
Subject:homenewstribune praises republican housing appt.
Message:

Bright could right board


            A Home News Tribune editorial

            This page still believes a tenant deserves a place on the 
New Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Board, but the state
            Department of Community Affairs also has taken an 
important and constructive step in naming its representative: it has 
appointed a
            Republican.

            Frank Bright, a firebrand who once challenged Mayor James 
Cahill, already has upset city Democrats' cozy little
            I'm-OK-you're-OK love fest, speaking this week with 
necessary bluntness about the Housing Authority's HOPE VI project.

            The Authority continues to assert the project is on 
schedule, even though ground has not been broken on replacement 
housing that
            was supposed to be finished before residents were moved 
from New Brunswick Homes. Now, faced with the result of its own
            ineffectiveness -- at least 29 families have found nowhere 
to go -- the authority has resorted to official eviction proceedings
            against the remaining tenants.

            Bright said this week he will oppose the authority's 
eviction proceedings and will insist the replacement housing get 
completed as
            soon as possible. The hope is that he can make that 
happen. At least Bright seems determined not to let the authority and 
its city
            soldiers fool themselves into believing their own spin. 
Sometimes a dissident within is the most important first step. 

            from the Home News Tribune 

            Published: March 9, 2001







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1111
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 14:10:47
Subject:and on and on and on and on and on it goes.......
Message:

Cliff-  Re:

"First it is absolutely necessary that revolutionaries and all
anti-imperialists, radicals and progressive people UNITE in an ALL
PEOPLES' UNITED FRONT AGAINST THE RIGHT WING & its Klan, Nazi, Lynch
mob underground, as well as the Corporate Running Dog visible forces
in Government, Politics, Wall St., Media, Academia, Institutions,
Organizations!" --Amiri Baraka, U&S, April 2000

Using this formulation back up your position on Curtis shows just how absurd 
it is.  You're seriously going to compare him to "Klan, Nazi, Lynch mob 
underground"?!! Are you for real?  We're talking about a guy who beat the 
odds growing up in NB's poor African-American community, fought off 
substance abuse, dragged his working-class self to work every day struggling 
to get by and was living in a god-damn trailer up until the campaign because 
he had to, not because he was a suburban college boy drop out who moved to 
the hood and thinking he was a "ghetto-kid" in Nutley (your words).  I've 
heard him denounce J&J countless times in person, in meetings, in public 
rallies against NB Killer Cops that HE organized, which takes a hell of a 
lot more guts than it does for us being that he had to go home everyday and 
face their intimidation & harassment after the crowds & cameras left.
Every time Baraka came around, whether at Rutgers or to our forums, Curtis 
was the first in line to talk to him and ask his sage advice.
Always trying to improve his own neighborhoods, he was elected to represent 
the people with an overwhelming percentage of votes, and for the first time 
finding himself in a high pressure situation that he took extremely 
seriously he makes a bad statement, something that could have been dealt 
with in a discussion on the side, (after all, he was fully in support of the 
  condition that all public positions of the candidates must be met with a 
vote from the steering committee) and you want to tar-and-feather him as a 
"Corporate Running Dog" who's only in it for the $ though he's never 
recieved a dime?  Where do you get off with this "premeditated rehearsed 
overtures to the enemy" nonsense?

Do you know that Baraka himself is constantly on Prudential in Newark to 
give up resources to the community, and promotes the position that corporate 
boards should be opened to the public representation?  How hard would it 
have been to point out to Curtis how "working with J&J" can be advantageous 
to a community lacking basic resources (as in, we liberate what they have 
taken from us) versus letting them take further advantage of the 
grass-roots.  Instead, you've egregiously assaulted his character and 
motives for months.  Maybe this has more to do with why you may be standing 
in front of Frank's house by yourselves on Sunday, your interesting excuses 
aside, just like you brought YOURSELVES to our "successful" Rt 1 protest of 
Gestapo Steve Rogers's rally after scaring off our potential support with 
your other PURIST, yet untactful, formulations.  So your declarations to 
"Unite" behind such sectarian tendencies ring a bit hollow.

I really try to support BOL/SWORD/CDRP/ETC where I can- I thought your 
Community Mural project was brilliant...I've tried to rally support for a 
letter writing campaign from the PC to demand that NB drop their charges 
against you and Joe (believing that I stand the most to lose from our 
charges being lumped together, as mine is basically my word against a 
cop's)...etc, whatever. but you make it tough when you consistantly shoot 
your own efforts in the foot, like with this ongoing tirade against Curtis.

You Unite,
Matthew


----Original Message Follows----
From: cliffsmith69@...
Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [njfo] Re: republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the 
right!
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 18:00:30 -0000

keith,

we have included already in our press release of the sunday protest of
bright the "call on nb city officials, nb housing authority, and jim
mcgreevy, to condemn the appointment, and file federal suit to uphold
mandatory resident representation."

public housing residents have already expressed their support for
george berry's program in electing him president of the homes'
tenants' association. our protest is designed to draw attention to the
condition of nb public housing (evictions...), the federal requirement
of resident representation, and bright's illegal appointment, which is
being praised by the ledger & hnt.

the demand that bright support the call for elected resident rep is to
break the spell he has cast over local progressives by claiming to
support democracy & community control, as evidenced by his near
unanimous support in these posts.

the choice of his residence is to expose enemy agents in the midst of
the community, broader than the mere nbha seat. to take it right to
the republicans at their bases in our neighborhoods. to instill
confidence in the community that we dont have to accept these people.

i wouldnt expect public housing residents to immediately show at the
rally.
1- those remaining downtown are on their last legs. we moved a family
to wright pl. last weekend, they have more immediate concerns.
2- the protest is on short notice, i doubt we will be able to contact
  many beforehand, which makes george st a good place for "agitation &
propoganda".
3- this isnt really correct criterion for the success of the protest.
we had 5 people march to convict marshall & chinchilla, and drew mass
attention to the trial. & this will bring attention to the evictions.

we will be at brights residence 4pm this and every sunday until the
5april eviction hearing.

re: curtis-

no one can question that we supported his nomination, voted for his
candidacy, gathered more petition signatures for his ballot req. than
any other grouping, put his name on all our lit. (as within the
peoples' campaign slate), endorsed him (as part of the slate) up &
down. supported his public events & invited him to ours. and spilt
blood stumping for him (which he mocks).

had curtis been an "ordinary" activist, yr criticism of our method
would be correct. (but even the argument over method ignores the more
important question of content. that is "where is njfo's or any of our
critics mo' better criticism of curtis???).

however, once curtis became the representative of the campaign, the
candidate for the community, our official spokesperson, he accepted
sacred responsibilities. 1st & foremost, to uphold the program of the
campaign.

curtis's public statements upon accepting his candidacy were not
off-the-cuff innocent misstatements. they were premeditated,
rehearsed, intentional overtures to the enemies of the people. once
his vote was won, he was untouchable and took off his mask.

"we're not here to tear down the political machine, we're just here to
do better."  & we will work with j&j to solve nb's problems.

this is not a "contradiction among the people". it is republican
propoganda.  deforest soaries is not warren's "religious leader" or a
"reverend" for purpose of political discussion. he is the nj
secretary-of-state to the republican bush-whitman-difransesco regime.
the republican organization lusts after nb/middlesex cty, and warren
is their local agent within the peoples forces. warren's m/o is
exactly soaries'.

"First it is absolutely necessary that revolutionaries and all
anti-imperialists, radicals and progressive people UNITE in an ALL
PEOPLES' UNITED FRONT AGAINST THE RIGHT WING & its Klan, Nazi, Lynch
mob underground, as well as the Corporate Running Dog visible forces
in Government, Politics, Wall St., Media, Academia, Institutions,
Organizations!" --Amiri Baraka, U&S, April 2000


--- In njfo@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> wrote:
 > Cliff,
 >      I think that your analysis is basically correct. However, the
attack on
 > Curtis is seriously mistaken.  Again, I would refer you to Mao's "On
Correct
 > handling of the Contradictions among the People". You continually
treat
 > Curtis as an enemy when he has already proven himself to be a
courageous and
 > dedicated working class organizer. That he is mistaken when he
defends
 > Frank's appointment should be discussed in a spirit of unity using
methods of
 > discussion and persuasion.
 >      NJFO shortsightedly enlisted numerous people including myself
to get
 > Frank made the chair of the Republican Party. In retrospect this was
a
 > serious mistake.This mistake has not been discussed nor its
implications.
 >    Frank Bright has proven himself to be a Judas and a snake in the
grass.
 > The appointment of Frank Bright is certainly a violation of Federal
Law and
 > both the Republican community affairs department and the local
democrats can
 > agree on one thing for sure to screw the people in this case public
housing
 > residents who have been denied representation again.
 >      The main lesson of this past election cycle is that the local
struggle
 > can not be seperated from the national struggle and the local
strategy and
 > tactics must coincide with national strategy and tactics.
 > This lesson in my opinion was learnt through struggle and prcatice.
There is
 > nothing wrong with making mistakes. Only those who don't do anything
don't
 > make mistakes. But mistakes must be corrected.
 >
 > I see nothing to gain by demonstaring in front of Frank's house.  I
will
 > gladly admit that I am wrong about this if public housing residents
outnumber
 > SWORD members at this demonstration, but I seriously doubt it.
 >
 > A lawsuit against all bodies that appoint to the housing authority
combined
 > with agiation and propaganda around the issue seems to me the better
course
 > of action. An election should be organized by public housing
residents to
 > choose their representaive. In that case a real alternative to the
current
 > appointees would exist. You demand that:
 > "dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & back george
 > berry's call for elected resident representation."
 > This demand reveals where you are mistaken and why the present
course of
 > action was chosen (a protest in front of Frank's house). We don't
need Frank
 > to back George Berry's demand, we need public housing residents in
particular
 > and the New Brunswick people in general to back George Berry's
demand. Who
 > cares what Frank Bright does? We should expect him to behave as the
chair of
 > the party that represents the greatest threat to the majority of
people in
 > this country. Time and energy could be much better spent organizing
residents
 > to chose their represenative and preparing to struggle to get that
person on
 > the housing authority.  This is much harder work that picketing in
front of
 > Frank's house, but it will be much more fruitful.
 >
 > Take care,
 > Keith
 >
 >
 > liffsmith69@h... wrote:
 >
 > > the nj republican state dept. of community affairs' appointment of
nb
 > > republican party chair Dim Liar to the nb housing authority board,
is
 > > more than a violation of federal law requiring resident
 > > representation
 > > on the board. &more than kicking the ousted projects residents
while
 > > theyre down.
 > >
 > > it is a republican party gubenatorial campaign maneuver to
establish
 > > a
 > > republican stronghold, with skunk soaries & protege ("we have to
 > > start
 > > somewhere...") republican ClassWarrin,$r., in mcgreasy's backyard.
 > >
 > > the social democratic liberal posturing which put bush2 in the
white
 > > house locally put dim liar in the housing authority, by boosting
him
 > > &
 > > the nb republican party.
 > >
 > > at the may'00 peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth
 > > activist jason hankins was nominated by block on lock for the
final
 > > executive board seat. njfo ("for revolutionary democracy &
 > > socialism"), fiending (as now)after "office space" (rather than
 > > peoples' organization), backed the nb republican party chair dim
liar
 > > (after(!) he had challenged joe smith's election as chair to
elected
 > > board of education committee, on grounds that joe is a
communist.).
 > >
 > > hankins lost & left, with him the outreach committee
(motorcades...),
 > > and possible victory.
 > >
 > > rather then relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to
 > > enlist
 > >  as republican party members for election day privileges. dim liar
 > > pimped this "artificial" support to his now real position.
 > >
 > > rather than unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize
 > > power!, it is the republicans who have seized the position of
power
 > > out of the "peoples'" campaign.
 > >
 > > the nb "left bloc" must identify itself immediately, & drive the
 > > right
 > > from its organizations.  all imposters must be exposed and
isolated.
 > >
 > > dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & back george
 > > berry's call for elected resident representation.
 > >
 > > all eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining
 > > projects residents (court hearing is 5april).
 > >
 > > skunk soaries must immediately stop obstructing the $500,000
 > > allocated
 > >  by the state legislature to crossroads theater.
 > >
 > > protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, residence of nb republican party
 > > chair dim liar.
 > >
 > > republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
 > > revolutionaries unite! with the people.
 > >
 > > To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@e...
 > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: njfo-unsubscribe@e...
 > >
 > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1112
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 14:16:01
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Official Text of Rep. Major Owens speech about WBAI
Message:

Official Text of Rep. Major Owens speech in Congress on 3/8/01
regarding WBAI and Pacifica

======================


RADIO FREE SPEECH IS BEING DENIED IN NEW YORK CITY


Mr. Speaker, tyrants in control of totalitarian countries like China,
Serbia and Iraq consider control of the airwaves an absolute
necessity. They ruthlessly enforce censorship of a kind few of us in
America can imagine. On last Monday, however, I had the weird
and frightening experience of being gagged by a radio station
manager in my own home city of New York.  It started with a
routine request that I call in for a phone interview on a show hosted
on Radio Station WBAI by Ken Nash which focuses on union and
labor news and features.  The name of the show which commences
at 2 P.M. was "Building Bridges."  As the Ranking Democrat on
the Workforce Protections Subcommittee I welcome the chance to
appear on shows related to working families or unions.

It is important to note that Radio Station, WBAI is a non-profit
station which runs primarily on contributions solicited from its
mass of diverse listeners.  Since last December this station has
experienced considerable turmoil internally and long-term
producers and hosts have been fired or locked out of the station.
Like many New Yorkers I am concerned about the present and
future of this vital outlet for free speech on the radio. Without
knowing all of the specific tensions and confrontations within the
station I have indicated my interest in working toward the resolution
of the problems hampering the continuation of the unique and
robust programming at WBAI.

It is important to note that I am presently seeking ways to get more
avenues opened for radio free speech in my City.  Five low-powered
Haitian stations have been shut down.  The survival of WBAI is vital
for the entire movement seeking more access to the airways.  The
bully monopolies of commercial radio provide the continuing
roadblocks.  My knowledge of the reputation of certain recent
appointments to the Board of Pacifica Network, which is the parent
non-profit institution responsible for WBAI, leads me to conclude
that there is a clear and immediate danger that attempts will be
made to sell WBAI to a commercial owner.  Such a sale would
mean the loss of a vital voice for working families in NYC.

My beliefs and point-of-view are considered heresy by Station
Manager Utrice Leid.  Without explanation or apology she shut
down the microphones and proclaimed that she had to intervene
because it was her job to allow only the "truth" over the airwaves.
The following is a summary of the statement I would have made
had I not been censured and shut off:

The situation at WBAI has implications far beyond this one station.
Freedom of speech over the airwaves via radio, broadcast
television, and cable television is presently quite limited for the
majority of Americans.  We have a problem of great magnitude that
is not being appropriately addressed.  The WBAI arrangement and
structure offered one model to be emulated.  As a listener
supported station with a very diverse set of programs, procedures
and guests, WBAI represents the optimum use of radio in the
service of ordinary people.

When I attended the memorial service for the late Samori
Marksman, former WBAI Station Manager,  last year in that great
hall at St. John's Cathedral, I saw a more diverse assembly than I
have seen anywhere in New York City.   Folks from all races,
religions, income levels and political persuasions were there.
There were intellectual snobs who support programs broadcasting
esoteric operas  mingling with radical, grassroots political activists.
Indeed, as a politician, one immediate reaction I experienced as I
contemplated all of that diversity with solidarity was a concern that
some people in powerful places would perceive WBAI as a threat.
The term "power structure" applies to forces that are very real.  And
I felt that this "power structure" would seek to destroy what the
WBAI Community has created.

WBAI represents radio freedom of speech that does not make a
profit for anyone.   There are those who see profits being made via
WBAI and other Pacifica  stations.  There are others in powerful
places who feel that only commercial stations should exist; or if
there are public stations, they should be indirectly controlled by
corporate grants and benign corporate advertisements.

Some of the persons who have recently been appointed to the
Pacifica Board represent such powerful commercial interests.  In
my opinion, WBAI is an endangered station as long as such
business predators are on the Pacifica Board.  Persons far
removed from the original ideals and philosophy of the founders of
the Pacifica chain are not likely to promote the original intent of
this very well conceived system.

A basic question which must be tested as soon as possible in the
courts is: Who owns a non-profit entity and who has a right to sell
non-profit radio stations?  Does the original charter or licensing by
FCC permit any group of trustees or directors to treat Pacifica and
WBAI as if they are commercial entities?

While the Pacifica turmoil is raging, I strongly urge WBAI to seek
to preserve its free speech function in New York City by exploring
the necessary steps to become independent of Pacifica.  As a non-
profit entity WBAI should use the university structure as a model.
It should elect a  Broad of Trustees through a voting process
utilizing its contributors and supporters as the voters.  The
Trustees should be responsible for basic business operations while
the producers and staff should be given a role similar to the faculty
at a university.  Basic freedoms similar to academic freedom and
tenure should be conferred upon longstanding producers and long-
term paid and unpaid staff participants.

I offer this as one model to preserve WBAI as a bastion of radio
free speech.  We need to broaden the efforts to promote such free
speech via radio.  New technology that permits small low powered
stations to broadcast at low costs has provided new possibilities
for greater avenues to radio free speech; however, five Haitian
stations have been shut down in my district and been declared to
be "pirate stations". There is a great need to test the long accepted
rules and regulations of the FCC.  Too much of the status quo as
reinforced by the 1996 Telecommunications Act borders on the
unconstitutional  denial of freedom of speech.

There is a larger free speech war to be engaged; however, first we
must preserve the solidarity and diversity on the airwaves as
represented by WBAI.


        http://savewbai.tao.ca


        To unsubscribe from this list
        email lists@... with: unsubscribe savewbai
        or visit http://lists.tao.ca
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1113
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 14:30:13
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Letter to SL RE: Frank Bright
Message:


CLiff wrote:

it is incomprehensible to state that a republican operative will be a
"wrench in the gears of gentrification plans". that bright worked
"side-by-side with revolutionaries for democracy".

I never said that he worked "side by side with rev's for democracy" ...I 
said  Bright was "working side by side with actual revolutionaries and 
progressives ***in a united-front for peoples' democracy and majority 
rule*** [before he got ousted by the people from his leadership]."

This is true, no?  Don't twist my shit to invent something impure to attack.

You Unite,
Matthew

****
I swear to god I'm trying not to make this a Smith-Brother's sounding board. 
  Can we exchange irrelevant barbs like this directly to each other in the 
future as Mark suggested?
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1114
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 15:34:33
Subject:Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
Message:

paul, doing nothing since the election is real beat. i think that is why 
your sarcasm is constantly on every action/event for the new brunswick 
community that i and others have brought up. i think your attitude comes 
from the level of activity you are dealing with. need i reprint your posts 
to make this point. my berating/criticism of people is to expose them at 
their points as not being my allies, nor allies of the people's campaign, 
can you explain your sarcasm?


>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
>Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 17:59:56 -0000
>
>Thanks for clearing that up. I guess we have nothing in common. You and 
>your
>bro make that abundantly clear. If the campaign and njfo and myself are so
>beat, then why do you spend so much time weighing in on our business? Why 
>do
>you want real beat people to support you in court?  Why do you constantly
>berate people who would be your allies and then accuse me of holding back
>the movement with my sarcastic comments?
>
>I'm done with these lists.
>
>Paul
>
> >From: wacbush01@...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Fwd: Re: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
> >Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 17:51:51 -0000
> >
> >to paul, you are real beat. your sarcasm moves nothing foward,
> >especially when it is pitted at people who are getting things done.
> >although i, and infinite others, have been expelled from the people's
> >campaign, i have done nothing but promote people's campaign platform
> >and raise practical tasks we can accomplish as our relationship
> >exists. joe
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <wacbush01@h...> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Provocateur, Explain your comment about me. Paul
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>From: "joseph smith" <wacbush01@h...>
> > > >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >>Subject: [nbpc] yes matthew wiegh those advantages
> > > >>Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 17:14:52 -0500
> > > >>
> > > >>just as njfo~people's campaign wieghed the advantage of office
> >space
> > > >>rather
> > > >>than organized base by nominating and swinging the vote for bright
> >to be
> > > >>on
> > > >>steering committee in the first place. this act defeated community
> >youth
> > > >>jason hankins, who led the survey team and never showed up again.
> >then
> > > >>let's
> > > >>again weigh things, how 'bout the advantages of joining the
> >republican
> > > >>party
> > > >>and becoming very active republican agents during last election,
> >which no
> > > >>doubt padded bright's resume tremendously to now be in such
> >position. you
> > > >>wanna weigh a defense of people's campaign platform for community
> >control
> > > >>by
> > > >>BOL as an attack on el curtis because his first words after
> >winning
> > > >>candidacy is how willing he is to work with J&J. then expel the
> >most
> > > >>revolutionary aspect of the campaign, causing irreperable harm to
> >the
> > > >>organizing effort ie., people's campaign couldn't even get the
> >board of ed
> > > >>question on the ballot - they never turned in one signature. one
> >more.
> > > >>let's
> > > >>weigh not doing any public events/organizing since the election
> >vs. doing
> > > >>some. doing none comes in at real beat, doing anything comes in at
> >leaps
> > > >>and
> > > >>bounds better than being real beat (take paul for example).
> > > >>
> > > >>you keep wieghing the truth against what you can gain by it and
> >i'd like
> > > >>to
> > > >>see your strong allies and who they LIE with. any criticism is
> >better than
> > > >>none, like you or "your allies" ever said anything about sucker.
> >now you
> > > >>know so much.
> > > >>
> > > >>njfo~people's campaign should be saturating yourselves with
> > > >>self-criticism,
> > > >>how long before admitting brightsucker don't serve the people? how
> >long
> > > >>after that before working to organize community base?
> > > >>
> > > >>when is the production meeting?
> > > >>
> > > >>joe smith
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
> > > >> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >> >Subject: [nbpc] RE: What is "Sucker Soaries"...
> > > >> >Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:09:42
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Erric, maybe I can esplain "Sucker Soaries" comment:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >It is a not so endearing nick-name for Rev. Buster Soaries of
> >the First
> > > >> >Baptist Church in Somerset, who rose to state prominance after
> >accepting
> > > >> >the
> > > >> >Secretary of State position under Gov. Hitman.  I hear he used
> >to be a
> > > >> >college activist at Rutgers, and know for certain that he gained
> >a local
> > > >> >spotlight after Sean Potts was murdered by the NBPD with a
> >bullet to the
> > > >> >back of the head (...1990?), courtesy of Officer Zane Grey (who
> >last I
> > > >> >heard
> > > >> >was still on the force). Soaries led demonstrations denouncing
> >this
> > > >>police
> > > >> >killing, and many believe he used the platform for personal gain
> >and to
> > > >> >benefit his unusually substantial church--for instance, First
> >Baptist
> > > >> >Church
> > > >> >somehow became the public relations mouthpiece for the
> >NB/Franklin
> > > >> >"Renaissance" DevCo projects. Over the years, he has been seen
> >on many
> > > >> >occasions escorting conservative Republican politicians around
> >town,
> > > >>such
> > > >> >as
> > > >> >Whitman after she snatched the Gov. spot by suppressing the
> >black vote
> > > >>and
> > > >> >buying off certain black ministers.  More recently, he welcomed
> >Bush2
> > > >>into
> > > >> >the area, who also took the election by suppressing the Black
> >vote.  In
> > > >> >grass-roots circles, he has been a source of uneasy tension, in
> >part
> > > >> >because
> > > >> >the most active and consistant community member in the NB
> >Coalition
> > > >>Against
> > > >> >Police Brutality (formed in the wake of the police murder of
> >Sissy Adams
> > > >>in
> > > >> >1996), Curtis Warren, has been a loyal member of Soaries' parish
> >for
> > > >>years.
> > > >> >Because there was more to be gained from finding points of
> >political &
> > > >> >social unity with residents than in alienating potential allies
> >by
> > > >> >condemning their religious leaders, we tended to take a
> >"hands-off"
> > > >>policy
> > > >> >toward Soaries over the years, though our unity allowed us to
> >struggle
> > > >>over
> > > >> >particular issues as they came up, sometimes using humor to
> >defuse
> > > >>internal
> > > >> >tentions while pointing out differences.  But I think this
> >started to
> > > >> >become
> > > >> >more unrealistic as Soaries' Star rose as Whitman's token "Black
> > > >> >Conservative" spokesperson.  On the other hand, he has a bit of
> >the
> > > >>Frank
> > > >> >Bright syndrome in that his oppostition to the entrenched,
> >bloody-handed
> > > >> >Democratic Machine still causes him to ally himself, if
> >temporarily,
> > > >>with
> > > >> >local left/progressive/revolutionary organizations and
> >causes--most
> > > >> >recently
> > > >> >introducing the Peoples' Campaign candidates to his
> >predominantly black,
> > > >> >middle-class parish.  Of course, his being African-American has
> >led him
> > > >>to
> > > >> >denounce such overtly racist state-policies like Profiling, as
> >he
> > > >>himself
> > > >> >has claimed to be a victim of this Gestapo tactic.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Particularly within NJFO & the Coalition, it's always been a
> >matter of
> > > >> >weighing the advantages & disadvantages of speaking out against
> >Soaries'
> > > >> >apparent self-promoting conservative agenda vs. exploiting the
> >inherant
> > > >> >contradictions between him and the NB Machine on the one hand,
> >and the
> > > >> >racist Republican Lords of our State on the other (the bigger
> >enemy);
> > > >>all
> > > >> >of
> > > >> >which took second shift to the principle task of creating allies
> >in the
> > > >> >community.  However, the purists amongst us have long held that
> >impure
> > > >>must
> > > >> >only be condemned, and as aggressively as socially tolerable
> >(kind of
> > > >>like
> > > >> >religion) but in the process, I think they've done a fairly good
> >job of
> > > >> >isolating themselves from potential allies over the
> >years...hence
> > > >>"Sucker
> > > >> >Soaries".
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Matthew Smith
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >----Original Message Follows----
> > > >> >From: "Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@b...>
> > > >> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >> >To: <nbpeoplescampaign@y...>
> > > >> >Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing
> >job
> > > >> >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:34:46 -0500
> > > >> >
> > > >> >I sort of understand most of this, but hat are "sucker soaries"?
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Erric Z.
> > > >> >    -----Original Message-----
> > > >> >    From: wacbush01@h... [mailto:wacbush01@h...]
> > > >> >    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:28 PM
> > > >> >    To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >> >    Subject: [nbpc] Re: NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing
> >job
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >    if frank bright has any integrity/community concern, he will
> > > >> >    immediately condem recent selection of himself to NB housing
> > > >> >    authority and demand that backwards, twisted
> >whitman/difransesco
> > > >> >    board that appointed him comply with federal law that
> >housing
> > > >> >    authority must consist of residents from public housing.
> >bright is
> > > >> >    being used along with sucker soaries to build up a
> >republican
> > > >> >    stronghold in new brunswick. sucker is so crazy and hates
> >black
> > > >> >    culture so much that he is sitting on 1/2 million$$$ for
> >crossroads.
> > > >> >    anyway, bright is worse for the public housing coming out of
> > > >> >    republican state appointment then city council of NB
> >appointing
> > > >> >    beatrice harris. how bout the targum's headline "activist
> > > >>apointed..."
> > > >> >    bright, you can't get that.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >    joe smith
> > > >> >
> > > >> >    --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski"
> ><znowakowski@u...>
> > > >> >    wrote:
> > > >> >    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Bright named to housing job
> > > >> >    > Published in the Home News Tribune 3/07/01
> > > >> >    > New HOPE VI homes, 'service' on agenda
> > > >> >    > By SHARON WATERS
> > > >> >    > STAFF WRITER
> > > >> >    > NEW BRUNSWICK: Frank Bright, a local Republican activist
> >who ran
> > > >> >    unsuccessfully for mayor in 1998, has been appointed to the
> >New
> > > >> >    Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority's board of
> >commissioners
> > > >> >    by the state Department of Community Affairs.
> > > >> >    > Bright wants more resident involvement in the city's
> >redevelopment
> > > >> >    and would like to see a community pool and ice-skating rink
> >built.
> > > >> >    > Bright said one goal is to "raise the standard of service
> >to
> > > >> >    residents utilizing public housing," and he wants to find
> >out the
> > > >> >    reasons for delays in building HOPE VI replacement housing.
> > > >> >    > "I must insist the new housing planned for HOPE VI get
> >completed
> > > >>as
> > > >> >    soon as possible," said Bright.
> > > >> >    > HOPE VI is a project to demolish the New Brunswick Homes
> >and build
> > > >> >    198 units of replacement housing onsite and in the
> >surrounding
> > > >> >    neighborhood. Two years after the grant was executed, no new
> > > >> >    construction has begun although the rehabilitation of three
> >units at
> > > >> >    238 George St. began last month.
> > > >> >    > Bright criticized Housing Authority plans to evict about
> >35
> > > >>families
> > > >> >    who had not moved out by the Jan. 26 deadline. The remaining
> > > >>families
> > > >> >    -- 29 as of 4:30 p.m. March 1, according to HOPE VI
> >Coordinator John
> > > >> >    Clarke -- are scheduled to appear in court next month.
> > > >> >    > "There's a major problem when you evict people and there's
> >no
> > > >> >    housing to move into," said Bright.
> > > >> >    > HOPE VI officials originally planned to build some
> >replacement
> > > >> >    housing before all residents had to move. But as the process
> > > >>matured,
> > > >> >    the complexity of the HOPE VI project delayed the building
> >of any
> > > >> >    replacement units before residents had to move, Glenn
> >Patterson,
> > > >> >    director of the city's department of planning, community and
> > > >>economic
> > > >> >    development, has said.
> > > >> >    > Housing Authority officials have said they will continue
> >to work
> > > >> >    with residents to help them find alternative housing.
> > > >> >    > Bright was appointed last week; his term ends Dec. 22,
> >2005.
> > > >> >    > Bright fills the commissioner spot previously held by
> >Keith A.
> > > >> >    Jones, who resigned from the board in May. Of the other six
> > > >> >    commissioners, five were appointed by the Democratic City
> >Council
> > > >>and
> > > >> >    one by Democratic Mayor James M. Cahill.
> > > >> >    > Bright, a Republican, was defeated by Cahill in the 1998
> >mayor's
> > > >> >    race and has criticized the city's Democratic government on
> >various
> > > >> >    issues, including its appointed school board.
> > > >> >    > Cahill could not be reached for comment yesterday.
> > > >> >    > Housing Authority officials said they look forward to
> >working with
> > > >> >    Bright.
> > > >> >    > "We welcome him as a commissioner to the board, and we
> >expect that
> > > >> >    he will be an integral member of the board of
> >commissioners," said
> > > >> >    Executive Director Kevin Quince.
> > > >> >    > "I welcome him. I have dealt with him on other levels,"
> >said the
> > > >> >    board's chairwoman, Beatrice B. Harris. "I'm going to
> >cooperate with
> > > >> >    him."
> > > >> >    > Bright graduated from Rutgers College with degrees in
> >mechanical
> > > >> >    engineering and physics. He serves as the chairman of the
> >city's
> > > >> >    Republican Party.
> > > >> >    > Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >    To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > > >> >
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> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> > > >> >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1115
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 17:27:16
Subject:Activist training - SPREAD THE WORD
Message:

The Movement Activist Apprenticeship Program (MAAP) is currently seeking
applicants for the summer cycle for the nations premier organizer training
program for people of color.

Since 1985,  MAAP has brought motivated activists together for seven weeks
to learn the art of organizing through field-based training with a labor or
community organization. The internship integrates political development with
skills training in five major areas:  Contact, Research, Action,
Fundraising, and Teamwork (CRAFT).

MAAP interns receive a $200 per week stipend for the six weeks in the field,
with all housing, health care and local transportation expenses covered. At
the conclusion of the program, MAAP connects graduates in promising jobs
with progressive community and labor organizations.

MAAP is a program of the Center for Third World Organizing (CTWO), a
national resource for organizations and individuals of color who are
contributing to the movement for social and economic justice in the United
States and around the world.

This summers MAAP program runs from June 13 to July 31. To participate in
MAAP this summer, applicants must attend a weekend-long Community Action
Training (CAT) in one of the following cities: either Providence RI, Atlanta
GA, Chicago IL, Denver CO, or Oakland CA.  All of these CATs will be held
the weekend of April 27-29.  There will also be a Spanish language CAT May

18-20 in New York City, attending applicants must be fluent in Spanish and
English.  The summer MAAP application deadline is April 15, 2001.

An easy application process with contact information is described below.

We need your help today by:

1. Contacting Irene at CTWO directly with the names of individuals or
organizations who may be interested in MAAP (training@...)
2. Forwarding this message to potential applicants, other organizations, and
list serves

We have included a description of the program below. Thanks in advance for
your support in identifying and training the next generation of organizers
of color!

In Solidarity,

Irene Juaniza
MAAP Director
Center for Third World Organizing

**************************
Description:
MAAP (Movement Activist Apprenticeship Program) is the nations premier
training (internship) program for activists.  MAAP brings motivated
activists together for seven weeks to learn the art of organizing through
field-based training with a labor or community organization. The internship
integrates political development with skills training in five major areas:
Contact, Research, Action, Fundraising, and Teamwork (CRAFT).

Qualifications:
MAAP is for people of color at least 18 years old, with an interest in
pursuing a career as a community or labor organizer. Applicants must
complete the Community Action Training (CAT) as part of their application
process prior the MAAP session of their interest.

Dates:
Summer Session:  June 13-July 31 (application deadline-April 15, 2001)
Fall Session: September 26-November 13 (application deadline-August 15,
2001)

Application Process:
1. Answer the MAAP application questions (listed below) and submit them to
MAAP with the $30 CAT registration fee (refunded if accepted into the MAAP
program.)
2. Attend the CAT training, where you will be interviewed.
3. If accepted into the program, youll start your internship with a
four-day orientation training in Oakland.
4. Upon graduation, MAAP can assist you in finding an organizing position
where you can continue to develop your skills.

Application Questions:
Answer the following questions (typed or clearly printed) and submit them to
MAAP at the address below.

1. Name, address, phone and email (current and permanent)
2. Indicate Summer or Fall session
3. Indicate which CAT session you will be attending on April 27-29, 2001:
Providence RI, Atlanta GA, Chicago IL or Oakland CA
*There will be a FAT CAT in Denver CO on April 27-29.  Fundraising Action
Training (FAT) is an introductory fundraising training, combined with the
CAT.  For more info on the FAT CAT visit the Grassroots Institute for
Fundraising Training (GIFT) at: www.grassrootsinstitute.org.
*There will be a CAT in the Spanish language May 18-20 in NYC.  (Attending
MAAP applicants must be fluent in English AND Spanish.)
4. School and/or organizational affiliation and position
5. Race/ethnicity and self-defined gender
6. Date of birth 
7. Rate your ability - limited, intermediate, or advanced - in language(s)
other than English for: speaking, writing, spoken translation, written
translation.  Please indicate language and level for all areas.

1. What type of work do you want to pursue in the future and why?
2. Describe your current and past involvement with community,
religious/spiritual, political, social welfare, and other groups.
3. How have these activities influenced your desire to become an organizer?
4. Please describe your family/personal/life experience and how it has
influenced your views of social change and your desire to become an
organizer.
5. What do you hope to gain by participating in MAAP?

Location:
Oakland, CA and field placement locations throughout the US.

Compensation:
MAAP interns receive a stipend of $200 per week stipend (before taxes) for
the 6 weeks in the field, local transportation, travel from Oakland to your
placement, housing and health insurance for the duration of the program.
MAAP interns cover their round-trip transportation expenses from their city
of origin to Oakland.

Contact:
For COMPLETE INFORMATION on the MAAP and/or CAT program, or to
apply/register online visit our web site: http://www.ctwo.org. Individuals
without internet access can call the MAAP Hotline: 510.594.4046.

Mailed responses can be made to:
Irene Juaniza, MAAP Director
Center for Third World Organizing (CTWO)
1218 East 21st Street
Oakland, CA 94606
email:  training@...g
website: www.ctwo.org


About CTWO
The Center for Third World Organizing (CTWO) is a national movement center
that links organizers and activists with political education, organizing
skills, and visions of a society based on racial, gender, and economic
justice.  Our programs recruit and train people of color as organizers,
build new multiracial organizations in local communities, and advance
political conversations through publications and convenings.




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1116
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 19:59:59
Subject:Re: and on and on and on and on and on it goes.......
Message:

"we're not here to tear down the political machine, we're just here 
to do better."  you compare this overture to j&j to baraka's 
demanding resources??? tho it was not we who made demands 
of "expulsion", speaking of sectarianism. we put forward our view. 
you dont need to get behind it, but you do need to unite on the basis 
of everyone states their position and opposes imperialism.

steve rogers also condemns police brutality.  tom ass clarence also 
pulled himeslf by the bootstraps.

warren defends his open public statements. why should this be dealt 
with "on the side"? why not openly, above board? warren also backs 
bright & mocks joe for being assaulted by kevin jones. he is soaries' 
registered republican protege. deny it.

why do you refer to the republican secretary of state as a "religious 
leader"? why do you hate on our shutdown of rogers' rally? why do 
hate on our protest of the nb republican party chair? we also 
protested marshall & chinchilla's trial alone & won. where was the 
coalition against police brutality?

i think it was we who informed you of rogers' rally, & the exposures 
of racist profiling continue to be successful, liberal wavering 
notwithstanding. see you in trenton may 19, if njfo/pc ever decides 
to get with it...

& who are you calling "dropout", liar? you talk like you know 
something about me. i didnt come from nutley, sonnyboy, & i aint 
suckin its teats.


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> Cliff-  Re:
> 
> "First it is absolutely necessary that revolutionaries and all
> anti-imperialists, radicals and progressive people UNITE in an ALL
> PEOPLES' UNITED FRONT AGAINST THE RIGHT WING & its Klan, Nazi, Lynch
> mob underground, as well as the Corporate Running Dog visible forces
> in Government, Politics, Wall St., Media, Academia, Institutions,
> Organizations!" --Amiri Baraka, U&S, April 2000
> 
> Using this formulation back up your position on Curtis shows just 
how absurd 
> it is.  You're seriously going to compare him to "Klan, Nazi, Lynch 
mob 
> underground"?!! Are you for real?  We're talking about a guy who 
beat the 
> odds growing up in NB's poor African-American community, fought off 
> substance abuse, dragged his working-class self to work every day 
struggling 
> to get by and was living in a god-damn trailer up until the 
campaign because 
> he had to, not because he was a suburban college boy drop out who 
moved to 
> the hood and thinking he was a "ghetto-kid" in Nutley (your 
words).  I've 
> heard him denounce J&J countless times in person, in meetings, in 
public 
> rallies against NB Killer Cops that HE organized, which takes a 
hell of a 
> lot more guts than it does for us being that he had to go home 
everyday and 
> face their intimidation & harassment after the crowds & cameras 
left.
> Every time Baraka came around, whether at Rutgers or to our forums, 
Curtis 
> was the first in line to talk to him and ask his sage advice.
> Always trying to improve his own neighborhoods, he was elected to 
represent 
> the people with an overwhelming percentage of votes, and for the 
first time 
> finding himself in a high pressure situation that he took extremely 
> seriously he makes a bad statement, something that could have been 
dealt 
> with in a discussion on the side, (after all, he was fully in 
support of the 
>   condition that all public positions of the candidates must be met 
with a 
> vote from the steering committee) and you want to tar-and-feather 
him as a 
> "Corporate Running Dog" who's only in it for the $ though he's 
never 
> recieved a dime?  Where do you get off with this "premeditated 
rehearsed 
> overtures to the enemy" nonsense?
> 
> Do you know that Baraka himself is constantly on Prudential in 
Newark to 
> give up resources to the community, and promotes the position that 
corporate 
> boards should be opened to the public representation?  How hard 
would it 
> have been to point out to Curtis how "working with J&J" can be 
advantageous 
> to a community lacking basic resources (as in, we liberate what 
they have 
> taken from us) versus letting them take further advantage of the 
> grass-roots.  Instead, you've egregiously assaulted his character 
and 
> motives for months.  Maybe this has more to do with why you may be 
standing 
> in front of Frank's house by yourselves on Sunday, your interesting 
excuses 
> aside, just like you brought YOURSELVES to our "successful" Rt 1 
protest of 
> Gestapo Steve Rogers's rally after scaring off our potential 
support with 
> your other PURIST, yet untactful, formulations.  So your 
declarations to 
> "Unite" behind such sectarian tendencies ring a bit hollow.
> 
> I really try to support BOL/SWORD/CDRP/ETC where I can- I thought 
your 
> Community Mural project was brilliant...I've tried to rally support 
for a 
> letter writing campaign from the PC to demand that NB drop their 
charges 
> against you and Joe (believing that I stand the most to lose from 
our 
> charges being lumped together, as mine is basically my word against 
a 
> cop's)...etc, whatever. but you make it tough when you consistantly 
shoot 
> your own efforts in the foot, like with this ongoing tirade against 
Curtis.
> 
> You Unite,
> Matthew
> 
> 
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: cliffsmith69@h...
> Reply-To: njfo@y...
> To: njfo@y...
> Subject: [njfo] Re: republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on 
the 
> right!
> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 18:00:30 -0000
> 
> keith,
> 
> we have included already in our press release of the sunday protest 
of
> bright the "call on nb city officials, nb housing authority, and jim
> mcgreevy, to condemn the appointment, and file federal suit to 
uphold
> mandatory resident representation."
> 
> public housing residents have already expressed their support for
> george berry's program in electing him president of the homes'
> tenants' association. our protest is designed to draw attention to 
the
> condition of nb public housing (evictions...), the federal 
requirement
> of resident representation, and bright's illegal appointment, which 
is
> being praised by the ledger & hnt.
> 
> the demand that bright support the call for elected resident rep is 
to
> break the spell he has cast over local progressives by claiming to
> support democracy & community control, as evidenced by his near
> unanimous support in these posts.
> 
> the choice of his residence is to expose enemy agents in the midst 
of
> the community, broader than the mere nbha seat. to take it right to
> the republicans at their bases in our neighborhoods. to instill
> confidence in the community that we dont have to accept these 
people.
> 
> i wouldnt expect public housing residents to immediately show at the
> rally.
> 1- those remaining downtown are on their last legs. we moved a 
family
> to wright pl. last weekend, they have more immediate concerns.
> 2- the protest is on short notice, i doubt we will be able to 
contact
>   many beforehand, which makes george st a good place 
for "agitation &
> propoganda".
> 3- this isnt really correct criterion for the success of the 
protest.
> we had 5 people march to convict marshall & chinchilla, and drew 
mass
> attention to the trial. & this will bring attention to the 
evictions.
> 
> we will be at brights residence 4pm this and every sunday until the
> 5april eviction hearing.
> 
> re: curtis-
> 
> no one can question that we supported his nomination, voted for his
> candidacy, gathered more petition signatures for his ballot req. 
than
> any other grouping, put his name on all our lit. (as within the
> peoples' campaign slate), endorsed him (as part of the slate) up &
> down. supported his public events & invited him to ours. and spilt
> blood stumping for him (which he mocks).
> 
> had curtis been an "ordinary" activist, yr criticism of our method
> would be correct. (but even the argument over method ignores the 
more
> important question of content. that is "where is njfo's or any of 
our
> critics mo' better criticism of curtis???).
> 
> however, once curtis became the representative of the campaign, the
> candidate for the community, our official spokesperson, he accepted
> sacred responsibilities. 1st & foremost, to uphold the program of 
the
> campaign.
> 
> curtis's public statements upon accepting his candidacy were not
> off-the-cuff innocent misstatements. they were premeditated,
> rehearsed, intentional overtures to the enemies of the people. once
> his vote was won, he was untouchable and took off his mask.
> 
> "we're not here to tear down the political machine, we're just here 
to
> do better."  & we will work with j&j to solve nb's problems.
> 
> this is not a "contradiction among the people". it is republican
> propoganda.  deforest soaries is not warren's "religious leader" or 
a
> "reverend" for purpose of political discussion. he is the nj
> secretary-of-state to the republican bush-whitman-difransesco 
regime.
> the republican organization lusts after nb/middlesex cty, and warren
> is their local agent within the peoples forces. warren's m/o is
> exactly soaries'.
> 
> "First it is absolutely necessary that revolutionaries and all
> anti-imperialists, radicals and progressive people UNITE in an ALL
> PEOPLES' UNITED FRONT AGAINST THE RIGHT WING & its Klan, Nazi, Lynch
> mob underground, as well as the Corporate Running Dog visible forces
> in Government, Politics, Wall St., Media, Academia, Institutions,
> Organizations!" --Amiri Baraka, U&S, April 2000
> 
> 
> --- In njfo@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> wrote:
>  > Cliff,
>  >      I think that your analysis is basically correct. However, 
the
> attack on
>  > Curtis is seriously mistaken.  Again, I would refer you to 
Mao's "On
> Correct
>  > handling of the Contradictions among the People". You continually
> treat
>  > Curtis as an enemy when he has already proven himself to be a
> courageous and
>  > dedicated working class organizer. That he is mistaken when he
> defends
>  > Frank's appointment should be discussed in a spirit of unity 
using
> methods of
>  > discussion and persuasion.
>  >      NJFO shortsightedly enlisted numerous people including 
myself
> to get
>  > Frank made the chair of the Republican Party. In retrospect this 
was
> a
>  > serious mistake.This mistake has not been discussed nor its
> implications.
>  >    Frank Bright has proven himself to be a Judas and a snake in 
the
> grass.
>  > The appointment of Frank Bright is certainly a violation of 
Federal
> Law and
>  > both the Republican community affairs department and the local
> democrats can
>  > agree on one thing for sure to screw the people in this case 
public
> housing
>  > residents who have been denied representation again.
>  >      The main lesson of this past election cycle is that the 
local
> struggle
>  > can not be seperated from the national struggle and the local
> strategy and
>  > tactics must coincide with national strategy and tactics.
>  > This lesson in my opinion was learnt through struggle and 
prcatice.
> There is
>  > nothing wrong with making mistakes. Only those who don't do 
anything
> don't
>  > make mistakes. But mistakes must be corrected.
>  >
>  > I see nothing to gain by demonstaring in front of Frank's 
house.  I
> will
>  > gladly admit that I am wrong about this if public housing 
residents
> outnumber
>  > SWORD members at this demonstration, but I seriously doubt it.
>  >
>  > A lawsuit against all bodies that appoint to the housing 
authority
> combined
>  > with agiation and propaganda around the issue seems to me the 
better
> course
>  > of action. An election should be organized by public housing
> residents to
>  > choose their representaive. In that case a real alternative to 
the
> current
>  > appointees would exist. You demand that:
>  > "dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & back george
>  > berry's call for elected resident representation."
>  > This demand reveals where you are mistaken and why the present
> course of
>  > action was chosen (a protest in front of Frank's house). We don't
> need Frank
>  > to back George Berry's demand, we need public housing residents 
in
> particular
>  > and the New Brunswick people in general to back George Berry's
> demand. Who
>  > cares what Frank Bright does? We should expect him to behave as 
the
> chair of
>  > the party that represents the greatest threat to the majority of
> people in
>  > this country. Time and energy could be much better spent 
organizing
> residents
>  > to chose their represenative and preparing to struggle to get 
that
> person on
>  > the housing authority.  This is much harder work that picketing 
in
> front of
>  > Frank's house, but it will be much more fruitful.
>  >
>  > Take care,
>  > Keith
>  >
>  >
>  > liffsmith69@h... wrote:
>  >
>  > > the nj republican state dept. of community affairs' 
appointment of
> nb
>  > > republican party chair Dim Liar to the nb housing authority 
board,
> is
>  > > more than a violation of federal law requiring resident
>  > > representation
>  > > on the board. &more than kicking the ousted projects residents
> while
>  > > theyre down.
>  > >
>  > > it is a republican party gubenatorial campaign maneuver to
> establish
>  > > a
>  > > republican stronghold, with skunk soaries & protege ("we have 
to
>  > > start
>  > > somewhere...") republican ClassWarrin,$r., in mcgreasy's 
backyard.
>  > >
>  > > the social democratic liberal posturing which put bush2 in the
> white
>  > > house locally put dim liar in the housing authority, by 
boosting
> him
>  > > &
>  > > the nb republican party.
>  > >
>  > > at the may'00 peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth
>  > > activist jason hankins was nominated by block on lock for the
> final
>  > > executive board seat. njfo ("for revolutionary democracy &
>  > > socialism"), fiending (as now)after "office space" (rather than
>  > > peoples' organization), backed the nb republican party chair 
dim
> liar
>  > > (after(!) he had challenged joe smith's election as chair to
> elected
>  > > board of education committee, on grounds that joe is a
> communist.).
>  > >
>  > > hankins lost & left, with him the outreach committee
> (motorcades...),
>  > > and possible victory.
>  > >
>  > > rather then relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to
>  > > enlist
>  > >  as republican party members for election day privileges. dim 
liar
>  > > pimped this "artificial" support to his now real position.
>  > >
>  > > rather than unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), 
seize
>  > > power!, it is the republicans who have seized the position of
> power
>  > > out of the "peoples'" campaign.
>  > >
>  > > the nb "left bloc" must identify itself immediately, & drive 
the
>  > > right
>  > > from its organizations.  all imposters must be exposed and
> isolated.
>  > >
>  > > dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & back george
>  > > berry's call for elected resident representation.
>  > >
>  > > all eviction proceedings must immediately cease against 
remaining
>  > > projects residents (court hearing is 5april).
>  > >
>  > > skunk soaries must immediately stop obstructing the $500,000
>  > > allocated
>  > >  by the state legislature to crossroads theater.
>  > >
>  > > protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, residence of nb republican 
party
>  > > chair dim liar.
>  > >
>  > > republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
>  > > revolutionaries unite! with the people.
>  > >
>  > > To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@e...
>  > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: njfo-unsubscribe@e...
>  > >
>  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@e...
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: njfo-unsubscribe@e...
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1117
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 20:11:59
Subject:[nbpc] Re: Letter to SL RE: Frank Bright
Message:

um, i miss the twist in yr shit.

point is, you try to say bright played some progressive role in 
attacking the Democrat corruption from the right, to cover the 
njfo/pc prostitution to his office. which is to further prop him up. 

bright was a republican operative from jump. and we opposed him at 
every turn. this is true, no?

unite. not with republicans.


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> CLiff wrote:
> 
> it is incomprehensible to state that a republican operative will be 
a
> "wrench in the gears of gentrification plans". that bright worked
> "side-by-side with revolutionaries for democracy".
> 
> I never said that he worked "side by side with rev's for 
democracy" ...I 
> said  Bright was "working side by side with actual revolutionaries 
and 
> progressives ***in a united-front for peoples' democracy and 
majority 
> rule*** [before he got ousted by the people from his leadership]."
> 
> This is true, no?  Don't twist my shit to invent something impure 
to attack.
> 
> You Unite,
> Matthew
> 
> ****
> I swear to god I'm trying not to make this a Smith-Brother's 
sounding board. 
>   Can we exchange irrelevant barbs like this directly to each other 
in the 
> future as Mark suggested?
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1118
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 20:27:15
Subject:block on lock on bright. immediately following pc convention, may'00:
Message:

steering committee, 1st meeting after convention:

is communism divisive? or who are the peoples' enemies?

does the peoples' campaign steering committee stand with the attempts 
by steering committee member frank bright to slander elected board of 
education campaign coordinator joe smith, to sabotage the campaign 
for an elected board of education, and to subvert the democratic vote 
of the peoples' convention?

bright, claiming to lead the democratic petty "middle" class of nb, 
having lost his challenge to smith's coordination of the peoples' 
campaign nomination of jim luceno (tho succeeding in formalizing the 
internal opposition where njfo failed in its nomination of zofia 
nowakowski) has switched in his accusing smith of "divisiveness" to 
anti-democratic methods of advancing his position.  does bright 
represent the steering committee in his attack on joe?

the people of new brunswick, understanding their condition, responded 
to our survey that the education system in new brunswick was the most 
important issue in the city.

the peoples' convention, recognizing this mandate and recognizing joe 
smith's unquestionable production toward a democratic peoples' 
education system formalized joe's leadership of this struggle placing 
him, as coordinator, on the strategic & tactical committees.

for bright, after joe's victory, to attack joe as being "divisive to 
the campaign" not only slanders joe and undermines the decision of 
the convention, but actually, from his position on hte steering 
committee, attempts to provoke attacks on the campaign and is himself 
being divisive.

to succeed, our platform must have the uncompromising support of the 
steering committee which demands that they address themselves to 
bright's accusation. no doubt the peoples' control over education 
divides most clearly the representatives of the people from the 
representatives of imperialism. to succeed, our campaign must 
establish which is which.

signed, 
cliff smith,
joe smith,
nicole engel,
angela jackson,
samantha prince

steering committee has yet to respond...








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1119
Sender:citruswar@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-09 23:22:08
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: and on and on and on and on and on it goes.......
Message:

Again you have misunderstood me.  I was not mocking your brother but merely 
pointing out a fact.  The punch Kevin Jones threw was called a "sucker" punch 
and since Joe was defining "suckers" I thought it best that he knew that he 
forgot to duck from one!

I love my pastor and he is my religious leader.  The fact that I have the 
strength to believe in God and leaders who bring the message is my choice and 
I choose to protect their reputation in my circle as much as possible.

I feel about my religious leader like you feel about your sacred cause.  I am 
not the enemy.  As far as the coalition against police brutality, we are in a 
restructuring mode and we at a disadvantage to come to anyone's aide who 
might need us.

I am not going to go back and forth with you Cliff.  But I will say this.  As 
long as you continue to waste precious moments defining whether or not I am a 
true patriot of the cause, the true enemy is gaining ground and zeroing in on 
you!

Peace my brother in the struggle!

P.S. Tell Joe I'm looking for my subpoena so that I can get out of work. :)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1120
Sender:znowakowski@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-11 01:06:45
Subject:Hello
Message:

For the record, I am against all political actions motivated 
individually by hatred, anger, or fear.  I do not support such 
actions from the right or left or anywhere in between.  Because of 
their intrinsic nature, they cannot lead to progress.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1121
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-11 20:06:43
Subject:Re: NBH&RA
Message:

Dearest Flavio,

Please advise the Steering Committee I am attempting to work with all groups 
in New Brunswick. To this effect, I will like to share with you the following 
policy I am going propose:

    1. No Eviction Policy: No resident will be forced to evict.  Resident 
must be fully satisfied with their move. Two reasons for this: eviction means 
the loss of all public housing rights/priviledges, relocation costs ( rule of 
thumb = $900.00)  and others. The other reason is that poor planning on the 
NBH&RA is not an emergency for residents, period. Any issues with any tenants 
shall be discussed with no more than three commissioners present. Minutes 
must be taken and approved. I respectfully request the PC to consider this 
and respond. Will they support this through attendence of 3/28 meeting, 
submit suggestions, etc.?

Please note this is a rough idea I will follow through on. The Commissioners 
may be a part of a newly formed or existing committee. I will review by laws, 
etc..

Please notify ASAP!

Frank 






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1122
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-11 20:09:24
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: NBH&RA
Message:


That last message was meant for Flavio. 

Sorry.






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1123
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-12 12:57:40
Subject:Fwd: letter to Cahill
Message:



>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>To: "vivaohio" <vivaohio@...>, "Joe Smith" <can_bush@...>, 
>"Cliff Smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Subject: letter to Cahill
>Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:45:54 -0500
>
>Cliff, Joe, Matt-
>
>I sent this to Cahill today by snail mail. I'll get his e-mail and send it 
>to him that way too about the middle of next week.
>
>Dave

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1124
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-12 13:04:37
Subject:Tenants Rights Now! partI
Message:

Board's compliance with rules at issue 

            Published in the Home News Tribune 3/11/01 

An activist is calling for Republican Frank Bright to resign from the 
New Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority board of commissioners 
only a week after Bright was appointed to the post.

Cliff Smith, with the Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary 
Democracy, objects because the board does not yet have a member who 
lives in public housing, as required by federal law.

The state Department of Community Affairs appointed Bright.

Other than this appointment, there was one other opportunity to name a 
public-housing resident to the board since the federal law took effect 
in November 1999: The City Council reappointed Chairwoman Beatrice B. 
Harris, a former public-housing resident, in April.

Meanwhile, a review of the city clerk's files for 1998 and 1999 
revealed that only one commissioner had filed required 
financial-disclosure statements.

            from the Home News Tribune 

            Published: March 11, 2001







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1125
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-12 13:18:27
Subject:partII
Message:

Housing-panel appointment attacked 

            Published in the Home News Tribune 3/11/01 

            By SHARON WATERS
            STAFF WRITER

NEW BRUNSWICK: A radical activist is protesting the recent appointment 
of Frank Bright to the New Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority 
board of commissioners, calling the designation a "political 
maneuver."

Last week, the state Department of Community Affairs appointed Bright, 
a Republican activist who has criticized the city's Democratic 
leadership and ran unsuccessfully against Mayor James M. Cahill in 
1998.

Cliff Smith, with the Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary 
Democracy, wants Bright to resign and for city officials and the 
Housing Authority to condemn the appointment.

He objects because a federal regulation, which took effect in November 
1999, requires a public-housing resident to be on the board and none 
has been appointed.

Bright has no plans to resign and said because the commissioners are 
not elected, they are political appointments. "There's no dodging that 
issue," he said.

Appointment defendedWhen asked about Smith's charges, DCA spokesmen 
said the DCA believes Bright will make an excellent commissioner, work 
hard to serve the city and provide new ideas and leadership to the 
Housing Authority.

"There was a determination made that this was the best candidate for 
the position," said spokesman E.J. Miranda.

The DCA declined to say how many candidates were considered, whether 
Bright was recommended or nominated himself, and whether the DCA 
interviewed Bright.

"A bunch of different people" recommended him, said Bright, noting he 
also recommended himself. Bright said he has talked to DCA staff for 
three years about Housing Authority issues and had asked how 
commissioners are appointed.

Bright asked around the city to see if anyone was interested in 
serving but then "about a dozen prominent activists and community    
leaders" said he should be the commissioner, Bright said. He would not 
name who they are, saying people "don't need to know my support 
structure."

Bright then approached Dennis Little, chairman of the Middlesex County 
GOP Organization. Little said Bright applied, and he sent only 
Bright's name to Trenton.

Little said Bright is dedicated to New Brunswick and is capable of 
doing the job. But Mayor James M. Cahill, who said the city had no 
idea the state was considering Bright, said he would not have selected 
Bright "because of a lack of qualifications."

Saying Bright "has had a tendency to be disruptive and combative," 
Cahill said he was not familiar with what experience Bright would 
bring to the table except a political background as chairman of New 
Brunswick's Republican Party.

Little answered, "Bet you if (Bright) had 'Democrat' after his name, 
he'd be qualified."

Bright provided a resume showing experience in mechanical engineering, 
contract negotiations, construction layout and design, equipment 
inspection and welding. He has degrees in mechanical engineering and 
physics and currently designs explosive bolts for Cartridge Actuated 
Devices in Fairfield, NJ.

Besides the DCA appointment, the mayor appoints one Housing Authority 
commissioner and the City Council appoints five.

Resumes not suppliedThe commissioners appointed by Cahill and the 
council were asked by a reporter last month to provide copies of their 
resumes or work and volunteer experience. They declined the request 
but had the Housing Authority Attorney James Horvath provide a list of 
their current employer and "special experience." (Commissioner James 
Scott later provided a resume.)

For the council's appointments, the list stated: Chairwoman Beatrice 
B. Harris is retired and a former public-housing resident; Scott is a 
self-employed consultant and former Housing Authority executive 
director with experience with HUD rules and regulations; Jerry Mercado 
works for Horizon Blue Cross/Blue Shield and has marketing and 
scholarship-program experience; Anthony Giorgianni is an iron worker 
with construction-management experience; Richard Kolesar works for US 
Securities Association, is a member of a plumber's union and has 
experience in construction trades and union-labor relations.

The mayor's appointment, Yirgu Wolde, works for NJ Home & Mortgage 
Finance Agency with experience in housing management and 
administration and the financing of affordable housing, according to 
the list.

The commissioners declined to say how they were selected and whether 
they were interviewed for the positions.

When asked why he appointed Wolde, Cahill provided an extensive list 
of Wolde's past job duties and experience with HMFA and other 
employers including processing special-needs housing requests, 
preparing grant proposals and overseeing transitional-housing 
programs. Wolde, with two master's degrees, also has reviewed, 
processed and allocated low-income housing tax-credit applications, 
Cahill said.

Cahill said he discussed the position and Housing Authority programs 
with Wolde, whom he has known for over 10 years.

Council members Joseph B. Schrum, Joseph V. Egan and Blanquita Valenti 
said the council reviews resumes and selects the most qualified 
candidates.

"We ran it by the mayor, of course, and we thought they were the best 
available candidates at the time," said Valenti, who spoke to four of 
the five appointees beforehand.

The makeup of the Housing Authority board is reflective of areas of 
importance needed in a housing-management team, said Cahill, adding 
the members' race and ethnicity mirror the city's population.

Board needs residentsThere have been two chances to appoint a 
public-housing resident to the board since the law went into effect in 
November 1999 - a council appointment in April 2000 when Harris was 
reappointed and DCA's appointment of Bright this month.

A DCA spokesman reiterated the department's belief Bright will make a 
good candidate when asked about the resident requirement.

Cahill said he couldn't speak for the council but noted there are 
"ample reasons" to have selected Harris again. He did not know why the 
council didn't pick a resident but said he has talked to the council 
about the legal requirement.

Scott's appointment expires next month, but Cahill would not speak for 
council members about whom they might appoint. Cahill said he did not 
have any problems with Scott's performance as a commissioner.

Cahill said the federal HOPE VI project is an additional 
responsibility to the commissioners' tasks of managing existing 
properties and being commissioners of a redevelopment agency.

"They do a fine job under existing difficult circumstances," Cahill 
said. 

            Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail: swaters@....

            from the Home News Tribune 

            Published: March 11, 2001







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1126
Sender:citruswar@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-13 07:07:42
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: NBH&RA
Message:

GO FRANK GO FRANK! Please stay safe and take care. Curtis L.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1127
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-13 13:18:57
Subject:MATERIALS TO STUDY
Message:

This and the next two emails contain some materials on public housing 
to study.  Each of these statutes was amended effective October 21, 
1998 by various provisions of Pub. L. 105-276.

This statute contains the requirement for board membership by a 
resident.

42 U.S.C.  1437

(b) Public housing agency organization

  (1) Required membership

Except as provided in paragraph (2), the membership of the board of 
directors or similar governing body of each public housing agency 
shall contain not less than 1 member--

(A) who is directly assisted by the public housing agency; and

(B) who may, if provided for in the public housing agency plan, be 
elected by the residents directly assisted by the public housing 
agency.

  (2) Exception

Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any public housing agency--

(A) that is located in a State that requires the members of the board 
of directors or similar governing body of a public housing agency to 
be salaried and to serve on a full-time basis; or

(B) with less than 300 public housing units, if--

(i) the agency has provided reasonable notice to the resident 
advisory board of the opportunity of not less than 1 resident 
described in paragraph 

(1) to serve on the board of directors or similar governing body of 
the public housing agency pursuant to such paragraph; and

(ii) within a reasonable time after receipt by the resident advisory 
board established by the agency pursuant to section 1437c-1(e) of 
this title of notice under clause (i), the public housing agency has 
not been notified of the intention of any resident to participate on 
the board of directors.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1128
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-13 13:27:40
Subject:MORE MATERIALS TO STUDY
Message:

This statute contains the requirement for public housing agency 
plans.  Whoever has the current 5-year agency plan for New Brunswick 
that was due 10/1/99, and the most recent annual plan, please speak 
up.  I am especially interest in its contents regarding  (d)(8)(B) 
and (d)(10) of the statute.  Note also subsection (e), which contains 
substantially ineffective plans for resident advisory boards.  

In addition, since the statute contemplates the potential for adverse 
interests between resident advisory board and board of directors, I 
am left to inquire: why does the RAB not have funds for its own 
attorneys?  Should this not be asked of the NBH&RA?

42 U.S.C.A.  1437c-1

 1437c-1. Public housing agency plans

(a) 5-year plan

  (1) In general

Subject to paragraph (2), not less than once every 5 fiscal years, 
each public housing agency shall submit to the Secretary a plan that 
includes, with respect to the 5 fiscal years immediately following 
the date on which the plan is submitted--

(A) a statement of the mission of the public housing agency for 
serving the needs of low-income and very low-income families in the 
jurisdiction of the public housing agency during such fiscal years; 
and

(B) a statement of the goals and objectives of the public housing 
agency that will enable the public housing agency to serve the needs 
identified pursuant to subparagraph (A) during those fiscal years.

  (2) Initial plan

The initial 5-year plan submitted by a public housing agency under 
this subsection shall be submitted for the 5-year period beginning on 
October 1, 1999, or the first fiscal year thereafter for which the 
public housing agency initially receives assistance under this 
chapter.


(b) Annual plan

  (1) In general

Effective beginning upon October 1, 1999, each public housing agency 
shall submit to the Secretary an annual public housing agency plan 
under this subsection for each fiscal year for which the public 
housing agency receives assistance under section 1437f(o) or 1437g of 
this title.

  (2) Updates


For each fiscal year after the initial submission of an annual plan 
under this subsection by a public housing agency, the public housing 
agency may comply with requirements for submission of a plan under 
this subsection by submitting an update of the plan for the fiscal 
year.

(c) Procedures

  (1) In general

The Secretary shall establish requirements and procedures for 
submission and review of plans, including requirements for timing and 
form of submission, and for the contents of such plans.

  (2) Contents

The procedures established under paragraph (1) shall provide that a 
public housing agency shall--
(A) in developing the plan consult with the resident advisory board 
established under subsection (e); and

(B) ensure that the plan under this section is consistent with the 
applicable comprehensive housing affordability strategy (or any 
consolidated plan incorporating such strategy) for the jurisdiction 
in which the public housing agency is located, in accordance with 
title I of the Cranston- Gonzalez National Affordable Housing Act, 
and contains a certification by the appropriate State or local 
official that the plan meets the requirements of this paragraph and a 
description of the manner in which the applicable contents of the 
public housing agency plan are consistent with the comprehensive 
housing affordability strategy.

(d) Contents

An annual public housing agency plan under subsection (b) for a 
public housing  agency shall contain the following information 
relating to the upcoming fiscal year for which the assistance under 
this chapter is to be made available:


  (1) Needs


A statement of the housing needs of low-income and very low-income 
families residing in the jurisdiction served by the public housing 
agency, and of other low-income and very low-income families on the 
waiting list of the agency (including housing needs of elderly 
families and disabled families), and the means by which the public 
housing agency intends, to the maximum extent practicable, to address 
those needs.

  (2) Financial resources

A statement of financial resources available to the agency and the 
planned uses of those resources.

  (3) Eligibility, selection, and admissions policies

A statement of the policies governing eligibility, selection, 
admissions (including any preferences), assignment, and occupancy of 
families with respect to public housing dwelling units and housing 
assistance under section 1437(f) of this title, including--

(A) the procedures for maintaining waiting lists for admissions to 
public housing projects of the agency, which may include a system of 
site-based waiting lists under section 1437d(r) of this title; and

(B) the admissions policy under section 1437n(a)(3)(B) of this title 
for deconcentration of lower-income families.

  (4) Rent determination

A statement of the policies of the public housing agency governing 
rents charged for public housing dwelling units and rental 
contributions of families assisted under section 1437f(o) of this 
title.

  (5) Operation and management

A statement of the rules, standards, and policies of the public 
housing agency governing maintenance and management of housing owned, 
assisted, or operated by the public housing agency (which shall 
include measures necessary for the prevention or eradication of pest 
infestation, including by cockroaches), and management of the public 
housing agency and programs of the public housing agency.

  (6) Grievance procedure

A statement of the grievance procedures of the public housing agency.

  (7) Capital improvements

With respect to public housing projects owned, assisted, or operated 
by the public housing agency, a plan describing the capital 
improvements necessary to ensure long-term physical and social 
viability of the projects.

  (8) Demolition and disposition

With respect to public housing projects owned by the public housing 
agency--

(A) a description of any housing for which the PHA will apply for 
demolition or disposition under section 1437p of this title; and

(B) a timetable for the demolition or disposition.

  (9) Designation of housing for elderly and disabled families

With respect to public housing projects owned, assisted, or operated 
by the public housing agency, a description of any projects (or 
portions thereof) that the public housing agency has designated or 
will apply for designation for occupancy by elderly and disabled 
families in accordance with section 1437e of this title.

  (10) Conversion of public housing

With respect to public housing owned by a public housing agency--

(A) a description of any building or buildings that the public 
housing agency is required to convert to tenant-based assistance 
under section 1437z- 5 of this title or that the public housing 
agency plans to voluntarily convert under section 1437t of this title;

(B) an analysis of the projects or buildings required to be converted 
under section 1437z-5 of this title; and

(C) a statement of the amount of assistance received under this 
chapter to be used for rental assistance or other housing assistance 
in connection with such conversion.

  (11) Homeownership

A description of any homeownership programs of the agency under 
section 1437f(y) or for which the public housing agency has applied 
or will apply for approval under section 1437z of this title.

  (12) Community service and self-sufficiency

A description of--

(A) any programs relating to services and amenities provided or 
offered to assisted families;

(B) any policies or programs of the public housing agency for the 
enhancement of the economic and social self-sufficiency of assisted 
families;

(C) how the public housing agency will comply with the requirements 
of subsections (c) and (d) of section 1437j of this title (relating 
to community service and treatment of income changes resulting from 
welfare program requirements).

(13) Safety and crime prevention

A plan established by the public housing agency, which shall be 
subject to the following requirements:

    (A) Safety measures

The plan shall provide, on a project-by-project or jurisdiction-wide 
basis, for measures to ensure the safety of public housing residents.

    (B) Establishment

The plan shall be established in consultation with the police officer 
or officers in command for the appropriate precinct or police 
department.

    (C) Content

The plan shall describe the need for measures to ensure the safety of 
public housing residents and for crime prevention measures, describe 
any such activities conducted or to be conducted by the agency, and 
provide for coordination between the agency and the appropriate 
police precincts for carrying out such measures and activities.

    (D) Secretarial action

If the Secretary determines, at any time, that the security needs of 
a project are not being adequately addressed by the plan, or that the 
local police precinct is not complying with the plan, the Secretary 
may mediate between the public housing agency and the local precinct 
to resolve any issues of conflict.

  (14) Pets

The requirements of the agency, pursuant to section 31, relating to 
pet ownership in public housing.

  (15) Civil rights certification

A certification by the public housing agency that the public housing 
agency will carry out the public housing agency plan in conformity 
with title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Fair Housing Act, 
section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, and title II of the 
Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, and will affirmatively 
further fair housing.

  (16) Annual audit

The results of the most recent fiscal year audit of the public 
housing agency under section 1437c(h)(2) of this title.

  (17) Asset management

A statement of how the agency will carry out its asset management 
functions with respect to the public housing inventory of the agency, 
including how the agency will plan for the long-term operating, 
capital investment, rehabilitation, modernization, disposition, and 
other needs for such inventory.

  (18) Other

Any other information required by law to be included in a public 
housing agency plan.

(e) Resident advisory board

  (1) In general

Except as provided in paragraph (3), each public housing agency shall 
establish 1 or more resident advisory boards in accordance with this 
subsection, the membership of which shall adequately reflect and 
represent the residents assisted by the public housing agency.

  (2) Functions

Each resident advisory board established under this subsection by a 
public housing agency shall assist and make recommendations regarding 
the development of the public housing agency plan for the agency. The 
agency shall consider the recommendations of the resident advisory 
boards in preparing the final public housing agency plan, and shall 
include, in the public housing agency plan submitted to the Secretary 
under this section, a copy of the recommendations and a description 
of the manner in which the recommendations were addressed.

  (3) Waiver

The Secretary may waive the requirements of this subsection with 
respect to the establishment of resident advisory boards for a public 
housing agency if the agency demonstrates to the satisfaction of the 
Secretary that there exist resident councils or other resident 
organizations of the public housing agency that--

(A) adequately represent the interests of the residents of the public 
housing agency; and

(B) have the ability to perform the functions described in paragraph 
(2).


(f) Notice and hearing [FN1]

  (1) In general

In developing a public housing agency plan under this section, the 
board of directors or similar governing body of a public housing 
agency shall conduct a public hearing to discuss the public housing 
agency plan and to invite public comment regarding that plan. The 
hearing shall be conducted at a location that is convenient to 
residents.

  (2) Availability of information and notice

Not later than 45 days before the date of a hearing conducted under 
paragraph (1), the public housing agency shall--

(A) make the proposed public housing agency plan and all information 
relevant to the hearing and proposed plan available for inspection by 
the public at the principal office of the public housing agency 
during normal business hours; and

(B) publish a notice informing the public that--

(i) that the information is available as required under subparagraph 
(A); and

(ii) that a public hearing under paragraph (1) will be conducted.

  (3) Adoption of plan

A public housing agency may adopt a public housing agency plan and 
submit the plan to the Secretary in accordance with this section only 
after--

(A) conducting a public hearing under paragraph (1);

(B) considering all public comments received; and

(C) making any appropriate changes in the public housing agency plan, 
in consultation with the resident advisory board.

  (4) Advisory board consultation enforcement

Pursuant to a written request made by the resident advisory board for 
a public housing agency that documents a failure on the part of the 
agency to provide adequate notice and opportunity for comment under 
this subsection and a finding by the Secretary of good cause within 
the time period provided for in subsection (i)(4), the Secretary may 
require the public housing agency to adequately remedy such failure 
before final approval of the public housing agency plan under this 
section.

(g) Amendments and modifications to plans

(1) In general

Except as provided in paragraph (2), nothing in this section shall 
preclude a public housing agency, after submitting a plan to the 
Secretary in accordance with this section, from amending or modifying 
any policy, rule, regulation, or plan of the public housing agency, 
except that a significant amendment or modification may not--

(A) be adopted, other than at a duly called meeting of board of 
directors (or similar governing body) of the public housing agency 
that is open to the public; and

(B) be implemented, until notification of the amendment or 
modification is provided to the Secretary and approved in accordance 
with subsection (i).

  (2) Consistency and notice

Each significant amendment or modification to a public housing agency 
plan submitted to the Secretary under this section shall--

(A) meet the requirements under subsection (c)(2) (relating to 
consultation with resident advisory board and consistency with 
comprehensive housing affordability strategies); and

(B) be subject to the notice and public hearing requirements of 
subsection (f).

(h) Submission of plans

  (1) Initial submission

Each public housing agency shall submit the initial plan required by 
this section, and any amendment or modification to the initial plan, 
to the Secretary at such time and in such form as the Secretary shall 
require.

  (2) Annual submission

Not later than 75 days before the start of the fiscal year of the 
public housing agency, after submission of the initial plan required 
by this section in accordance with subparagraph (A), each public 
housing agency shall annually submit to the Secretary a plan update, 
including any amendments or modifications to the public housing 
agency plan.

(i) Review and determination of compliance

  (1) Review

Subject to paragraph (2), after submission of the public housing 
agency plan or any amendment or modification to the plan to the 
Secretary, to the extent that the Secretary considers such action to 
be necessary to make determinations under this paragraph, the 
Secretary shall review the public housing agency plan (including any 
amendments or modifications thereto) and determine whether the 
contents of the plan--

(A) set forth the information required by this section and this Act 
to be contained in a public housing agency plan;

(B) are consistent with information and data available to the 
Secretary, including the approved comprehensive housing affordability 
strategy under title I of the Cranston-Gonzalez National Affordable 
Housing Act for the jurisdiction in which the public housing agency 
is located; and

(C) are not prohibited by or inconsistent with any provision of this 
subchapter or other applicable law.

(2) Elements exempted from review

The Secretary may, by regulation, provide that one or more elements 
of a public housing agency plan shall be reviewed only if the element 
is challenged, except that the Secretary shall review the information 
submitted in each plan pursuant to paragraphs (3)(B), (8), and (15) 
of subsection (d).

  (3) Disapproval

The Secretary may disapprove a public housing agency plan (or any 
amendment or modification thereto) only if Secretary determines that 
the contents of the plan (or amendment or modification) do not comply 
with the requirements under subparagraph (A) through (C) of paragraph 
(1).

  (4) Determination of compliance

    (A) In general

Except as provided in subsection (j)(2), not later than 75 days after 
the date on which a public housing agency plan is submitted in 
accordance with this section, the Secretary shall make the 
determination under paragraph (1) and provide written notice to the 
public housing agency if the plan has been disapproved. If the 
Secretary disapproves the plan, the notice shall state with 
specificity the reasons for the disapproval.

    (B) Failure to provide notice of disapproval

In the case of a plan disapproved, if the Secretary does not provide 
notice of disapproval under subparagraph (A) before the expiration of 
the period described in subparagraph (A), the Secretary shall be 
considered, for purposes of this chapter, to have made a 
determination that the plan complies with the requirements under this 
section and the agency shall be considered to have been notified of 
compliance upon the expiration of such period. The preceding sentence 
shall not preclude judicial review regarding such compliance pursuant 
to chapter 7 of Title 5, [5 U.S.C.A.  701 et seq.], or an action 
regarding such compliance under section 1979 of the Revised Statutes 
of the United States (42 U.S.C. 1983).

  (5) Public availability

A public housing agency shall make the approved plan of the agency 
available to the general public.

(j) Troubled and at-risk PHAs

  (1) In general

The Secretary may require, for each public housing agency that is at 
risk of being designated as troubled under section 1437d(j)(2) of 
this title or is designated as troubled under section 1437d(j)(2) of 
this title, that the public housing agency plan for such agency 
include such additional information as the Secretary determines to be 
appropriate, in accordance with such standards as the Secretary may 
establish or in accordance with such determinations as the Secretary 
may make on an agency-by-agency basis.

  (2) Troubled agencies

The Secretary shall provide explicit written approval or disapproval, 
in a timely manner, for a public housing agency plan submitted by any 
public housing agency designated by the Secretary as a troubled 
public housing agency under section 1437d(j)(2) of this title.

(k) Streamlined plan

In carrying out this section, the Secretary may establish a 
streamlined public housing agency plan for--

(A) public housing agencies that are determined by the Secretary to 
be high performing public housing agencies;

(B) public housing agencies with less than 250 public housing units 
that have not been designated as troubled under section 1437d(j)(2) 
of this title; and

(C) public housing agencies that only administer tenant-based 
assistance and that do not own or operate public housing.


(l) Compliance with plan

  (1) In general

In providing assistance under this subchapter [42 U.S.C.A.  1437 et 
seq.], a public housing agency shall comply with the rules, 
standards, and policies established in the public housing agency plan 
of the public housing agency approved under this section.

  (2) Investigation and enforcement

In carrying out this subchapter [42 U.S.C.A.  1437 et seq.], the 
Secretary shall--

(A) provide an appropriate response to any complaint concerning 
noncompliance by a public housing agency with the applicable public 
housing agency plan; and

(B) if the Secretary determines, based on a finding of the Secretary 
or other information available to the Secretary, that a public 
housing agency is not complying with the applicable public housing 
agency plan, take such actions as the Secretary determines to be 
appropriate to ensure such compliance.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1129
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-13 13:30:11
Subject:ONE MORE STATUTE....
Message:

Lastly, please see this statute.  In light of what I have been 
reading in the papers, I wonder whether sec. (d) is being observed?  
Any comments from those who may know?

Thanks for your comments and assistance.

Flavio L. Komuves
General Counsel, NBPC



 1437z-4. Resident homeownership programs




(a) In general


A public housing agency may carry out a homeownership program in 
accordance with this section and the public housing agency plan of 
the agency to make public housing dwelling units, public housing 
projects, and other housing projects available for purchase by low-
income families for use only as principal residences for such 
families. An agency may transfer a unit pursuant to a homeownership 
program only if the program is authorized under this section 

and approved by the Secretary.


(b) Participating units


A program under this section may cover any existing public housing 
dwelling units or projects, and may include other dwelling units and 
housing owned, assisted, or operated, or otherwise acquired for use 
under such program, by the public housing agency.


(c) Eligible purchasers



  (1) Low-income requirement


Only low-income families assisted by a public housing agency, other 
low- income families, and entities formed to facilitate such sales by 
purchasing units for resale to low-income families shall be eligible 
to purchase housing under a homeownership program under this section.


  (2) Other requirements





A public housing agency may establish other requirements or 
limitations for families to purchase housing under a homeownership 
program under this section, including requirements or limitations 
regarding employment or participation in employment counseling or 
training activities, criminal activity, participation in 
homeownership counseling programs, evidence of regular income, and 
other requirements. In the case of purchase by an entity for resale 
to low-income families, the entity shall sell the units to low-income 
families within 5 years from the date of its acquisition of the 
units. The entity shall use any net proceeds from the resale and from 
managing the units, as determined in accordance with guidelines of 
the Secretary, for housing purposes, such as funding resident 
organizations and reserves for capital replacements.


(d) Right of first refusal


In making any sale under this section, the public housing agency 
shall initially offer the public housing unit at issue to the 
resident or residents occupying that unit, if any, or to an 
organization serving as a conduit for sales to any such resident.




(e) Protection of nonpurchasing residents


If a public housing resident does not exercise the right of first 
refusal under subsection (d) with respect to the public housing unit 
in which the resident resides, the public housing agency--

(1) shall notify the resident residing in the unit 90 days prior to 
the displacement date except in cases of imminent threat to health or 
safety, consistent with any guidelines issued by the Secretary 
governing such notifications, that--

(A) the public housing unit will be sold;

(B) the transfer of possession of the unit will occur until the 
resident is relocated; and

(C) each resident displaced by such action will be offered comparable 
housing--

(i) that meets housing quality standards;

(ii) that is located in an area that is generally not less desirable 
than the location of the displaced resident's housing; and

(iii) which may include--

(I) tenant-based assistance, except that the requirement under this 
subclause regarding offering of comparable housing shall be fulfilled 
by 


use of tenant-based assistance only upon the relocation of such 
resident into such housing;

(II) project-based assistance; or

(III) occupancy in a unit owned, operated, or assisted by the public 
housing agency at a rental rate paid by the resident that is 
comparable to the rental rate applicable to the unit from which the 
resident is vacated;

(2) shall provide for the payment of the actual and reasonable 
relocation expenses of the resident to be displaced;

(3) shall ensure that the displaced resident is offered comparable 
housing in accordance with the notice under paragraph (1);

(4) shall provide any necessary counseling for the displaced 
resident; and

(5) shall not transfer possession of the unit until the resident is 
relocated.


(f) Financing and assistance


A homeownership program under this section may provide financing for 
acquisition of housing by families purchasing under the program, or 
for acquisition of housing by the public housing agency for sale 
under the program, in any manner considered appropriate by the agency 
(including sale to a 

resident management corporation).


(g) Downpayment requirement



  (1) In general


Each family purchasing housing under a homeownership program under 
this section shall be required to provide from its own resources a 
downpayment in connection with any loan for acquisition of the 
housing, in an amount determined by the public housing agency. Except 
as provided in paragraph (2), the agency shall permit the family to 
use grant amounts, gifts from relatives, contributions from private 
sources, and similar amounts as downpayment amounts in such purchase.


  (2) Direct family contribution


In purchasing housing pursuant to this section, each family shall 
contribute an amount of the downpayment, from resources of the family 
other than grants, gifts, contributions, or other similar amounts 
referred to in paragraph (1), 


that is not less than 1 percent of the purchase price.


(h) Ownership interests


A homeownership program under this section may provide for sale to 
the purchasing family of any ownership interest that the public 
housing agency considers appropriate under the program, including 
ownership in fee simple, a condominium interest, an interest in a 
limited dividend cooperative, a shared appreciation interest with a 
public housing agency providing financing.


(i) Resale



  (1) Authority and limitation


A homeownership program under this section shall permit the resale of 
a dwelling unit purchased under the program by an eligible family, 
but shall provide such limitations on resale as the agency considers 
appropriate (whether the family purchases directly from the agency or 
from another entity) for the agency to recapture--


(A) some or all of the economic gain derived from any such resale 
occurring during the 5-year period beginning upon purchase of the 
dwelling unit by the eligible family; and

(B) after the expiration of such 5-year period, only such amounts as 
are equivalent to the assistance provided under this section by the 
agency to the purchaser.


  (2) Considerations


The limitations referred to in paragraph (1)(A) may provide for 
consideration of the aggregate amount of assistance provided under 
the program to the family, the contribution to equity provided by the 
purchasing eligible family, the period of time elapsed between 
purchase under the homeownership program and resale, the reason for 
resale, any improvements to the property made by the eligible family, 
any appreciation in the value of the property, and any other factors 
that the agency considers appropriate.


(j) Net proceeds


The net proceeds of any sales under a homeownership program under 
this section 


remaining after payment of all costs of the sale shall be used for 
purposes relating to low-income housing and in accordance with the 
public housing agency plan of the agency carrying out the program.


(k) Homeownership assistance


From amounts distributed to a public housing agency under the Capital 
Fund under section 1437g(d) of this title, or from other income 
earned by the public housing agency, the public housing agency may 
provide assistance to public housing residents to facilitate the 
ability of those residents to purchase a principal residence, 
including a residence other than a residence located in a public 
housing project.


(l) Inapplicability of disposition requirements


The provisions of section 1437p of this title shall not apply to 
disposition of public housing dwelling units under a homeownership 
program under this section.









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1130
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-13 14:35:52
Subject:Q Hazard Watch
Message:

Did anyone pick up a copy of the Hazard Watch info distributed at the last mtg?  Please let me know (***dont reply all).  Thanks!!

Zofia







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1131
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-13 15:25:43
Subject:WOMENS CAUCUS MEETS THIS SAT
Message:

Come one, come all women!

Women's caucus will be meeting this Saturday, at 1pm, at 72 Welton Street.  One major event will be the election of a caucus representative to the steering committee (We hope you will seriously consider your candidacy).  After the meeting, we are hoping to discuss our contibution to ARTHOUSE for Women's History Month.









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1132
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-13 16:54:17
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: Sharon Blockades a Palestinian Center in the West Bank
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by shorepaulie@....

Israel continues to strangle the Palestinians, any questions?

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Sharon Blockades a Palestinian Center in the West Bank


By JOEL GREENBERG

RAMALLAH, West Bank, March 12 � The Israeli Army today sealed off
this city, the unofficial seat of government of the Palestinian
Authority in the West Bank, blocking roads with trenches, mounds of
earth and checkpoints backed by tanks and armored troop carriers.

 It was the first action against the Palestinians by the newly
inaugurated government of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and the most
severe blockade imposed by the Israelis on this community of
60,000, a major commercial and cultural center.

 Palestinian officials condemned the action as an escalation of
Israeli tactics against the Palestinian uprising. The measure set
off violent protests at one roadblock, where a Palestinian was
killed by Israeli troops.

 Mr. Sharon denied that the blockade represented a new policy,
asserting that it was imposed to foil a car bombing in Jerusalem
after members of a group plotting the attack were arrested and
there were indications that others were still at large.

 However the blockade, which disrupted the lives of tens of
thousands of people, drew criticism from some members of Mr.
Sharon's cabinet, and Palestinians called it collective punishment.

 Mr. Sharon asserted today that his security policy was directed
"against those who attack and those behind them" while "easing
things as much as possible for most of the population."

 "In areas where there is quiet, all easings of restrictions will
be granted," Mr. Sharon said. "In other places, where there is
danger of an attack on Israeli citizens, all appropriate measures
will be taken." 

 In that vein, Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer announced that
he had ordered the lifting of less stringent blockades imposed by
the previous Israeli government on four other West Bank cities:
Bethlehem, Hebron, Tulkarm and Qalqilya.

 Mr. Ben-Eliezer said he had no intention of closing off the West
Bank and Gaza Strip "like ghettos" and wanted a speedy lifting of
border closings that have prevented Palestinians from working in
Israel.

 However, information received on a suspected attack from this area
left no choice but to keep it sealed off, Mr. Ben-Eliezer said. 

 Some members of Mr. Sharon's cabinet warned that the blockade
policy could prove to be a boomerang. Foreign Minister Shimon Peres
said that the policy should be "reassessed," and Science and
Culture Minister Matan Vilnai, a former general, warned that, "If
the dosage is too high, it could lead to serious results."

 Palestinians voiced similar warnings here today. Long lines of
cars snaked back from checkpoints as Palestinians young and old,
some lugging bags and packages, walked around barriers after they
were unable to ride through.

 At a roadblock near the Kalandia refugee camp, a young man
supported his elderly father as he shuffled toward the checkpoint.
Another man holding an infant said he had waited four hours to get
across the barrier so he could take the baby to a doctor.

 On a severed road between this city and villages to the north, a
stream of Palestinians clambered over rocks down into a valley in
order to get around trenches and mounds of earth. An Israeli tank
and an army bulldozer were positioned on a hill overlooking the
road as groups of youths threw stones and Israeli border police
officers responded with tear gas. 

 The clashes erupted when hundreds of protesters marching from this
city used a bulldozer to remove an earth barricade and fill a
trench. Soldiers responded with tear gas and rubber-coated bullets.
A Palestinian was killed when he was struck by what witnesses and
hospital officials described as a live round.

 "This is the beginning of the battle, not the end of it, and the
war needs the effort of every single Arab," Yasir Abed Rabo, the
Palestinian information minister, said the demonstrators before the
clashes began.

 Inside the city, traffic was light and some streets were nearly
empty. Grocers said they had not received food shipments, teachers
from neighboring communities failed to arrive at local schools, and
doctors and nurses living outside the city were unable to reach
hospitals here.

 Fida Safi, a taxi driver, sat in a line of vehicles behind one
checkpoint. A resident of the Jalazun refugee camp outside
Ramallah, Mr. Safi said he had been trying for hours without
success to get into the city from different directions, and had yet
to take a single fare.

 "This is difficult, difficult, extremely difficult," he said,
before he was turned back yet again. "It will lead to an explosion.
People will do anything to feed their children." 


 Criticism From U.S.
 WASHINGTON, March 12, (Reuters) � The United
States criticized Israel today for restrictions it had placed on
Palestinians, and disputed Israel's argument that closing off
Palestinian towns helped provide security for Israelis.

 The State Department also rebuffed an Arab request that the United
Nations protect the Palestinians, saying Israel would need to
approve any protection force.

 Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, who spoke to Israel's prime
minister, Ariel Sharon, over the weekend about the violence between
Israelis and Palestinians, has told Mr. Sharon that measures that
affect the Palestinian economy can backfire by producing
frustration and violence.   
            
          
     
      
 
 
 
   
     


http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/13/world/13WEST.html?pagewanted=2?ex=985520457&ei=1&en=5bc1192335144640

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help@....  

Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1133
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-13 17:55:16
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: NBH&RA
Message:

curtis, and all, is REPUBLICAN frank the example you suggest with your 
platform of community control (over housing)? or do you not care about the 
platform, and the people of NB, that you all claim i violated when i was 
expelled from people's campaign?

joe

Tenants Rights Now! Republicans in the Garbage Can!

Defeat the New Brunswick Bush! Can_Bright!

can_bush@...


>From: citruswar@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: NBH&RA
>Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 07:07:42 EST
>
>GO FRANK GO FRANK! Please stay safe and take care. Curtis L.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1134
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-13 18:06:36
Subject:question
Message:

how can i get njfo's position on the selection of bright to housing 
authority?

joe







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1135
Sender:"Audrey Allred" <audreya99@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-14 01:54:01
Subject:Re: [nbpc] partII
Message:

radical activist?


From: wacbush01@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] partII
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:18:27 -0000

Housing-panel appointment attacked

             Published in the Home News Tribune 3/11/01

             By SHARON WATERS
             STAFF WRITER

NEW BRUNSWICK: A radical activist is protesting the recent appointment
of Frank Bright to the New Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority
board of commissioners, calling the designation a "political
maneuver."

Last week, the state Department of Community Affairs appointed Bright,
a Republican activist who has criticized the city's Democratic
leadership and ran unsuccessfully against Mayor James M. Cahill in
1998.

Cliff Smith, with the Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary
Democracy, wants Bright to resign and for city officials and the
Housing Authority to condemn the appointment.

He objects because a federal regulation, which took effect in November
1999, requires a public-housing resident to be on the board and none
has been appointed.

Bright has no plans to resign and said because the commissioners are
not elected, they are political appointments. "There's no dodging that
issue," he said.

Appointment defendedWhen asked about Smith's charges, DCA spokesmen
said the DCA believes Bright will make an excellent commissioner, work
hard to serve the city and provide new ideas and leadership to the
Housing Authority.

"There was a determination made that this was the best candidate for
the position," said spokesman E.J. Miranda.

The DCA declined to say how many candidates were considered, whether
Bright was recommended or nominated himself, and whether the DCA
interviewed Bright.

"A bunch of different people" recommended him, said Bright, noting he
also recommended himself. Bright said he has talked to DCA staff for
three years about Housing Authority issues and had asked how
commissioners are appointed.

Bright asked around the city to see if anyone was interested in
serving but then "about a dozen prominent activists and community
leaders" said he should be the commissioner, Bright said. He would not
name who they are, saying people "don't need to know my support
structure."

Bright then approached Dennis Little, chairman of the Middlesex County
GOP Organization. Little said Bright applied, and he sent only
Bright's name to Trenton.

Little said Bright is dedicated to New Brunswick and is capable of
doing the job. But Mayor James M. Cahill, who said the city had no
idea the state was considering Bright, said he would not have selected
Bright "because of a lack of qualifications."

Saying Bright "has had a tendency to be disruptive and combative,"
Cahill said he was not familiar with what experience Bright would
bring to the table except a political background as chairman of New
Brunswick's Republican Party.

Little answered, "Bet you if (Bright) had 'Democrat' after his name,
he'd be qualified."

Bright provided a resume showing experience in mechanical engineering,
contract negotiations, construction layout and design, equipment
inspection and welding. He has degrees in mechanical engineering and
physics and currently designs explosive bolts for Cartridge Actuated
Devices in Fairfield, NJ.

Besides the DCA appointment, the mayor appoints one Housing Authority
commissioner and the City Council appoints five.

Resumes not suppliedThe commissioners appointed by Cahill and the
council were asked by a reporter last month to provide copies of their
resumes or work and volunteer experience. They declined the request
but had the Housing Authority Attorney James Horvath provide a list of
their current employer and "special experience." (Commissioner James
Scott later provided a resume.)

For the council's appointments, the list stated: Chairwoman Beatrice
B. Harris is retired and a former public-housing resident; Scott is a
self-employed consultant and former Housing Authority executive
director with experience with HUD rules and regulations; Jerry Mercado
works for Horizon Blue Cross/Blue Shield and has marketing and
scholarship-program experience; Anthony Giorgianni is an iron worker
with construction-management experience; Richard Kolesar works for US
Securities Association, is a member of a plumber's union and has
experience in construction trades and union-labor relations.

The mayor's appointment, Yirgu Wolde, works for NJ Home & Mortgage
Finance Agency with experience in housing management and
administration and the financing of affordable housing, according to
the list.

The commissioners declined to say how they were selected and whether
they were interviewed for the positions.

When asked why he appointed Wolde, Cahill provided an extensive list
of Wolde's past job duties and experience with HMFA and other
employers including processing special-needs housing requests,
preparing grant proposals and overseeing transitional-housing
programs. Wolde, with two master's degrees, also has reviewed,
processed and allocated low-income housing tax-credit applications,
Cahill said.

Cahill said he discussed the position and Housing Authority programs
with Wolde, whom he has known for over 10 years.

Council members Joseph B. Schrum, Joseph V. Egan and Blanquita Valenti
said the council reviews resumes and selects the most qualified
candidates.

"We ran it by the mayor, of course, and we thought they were the best
available candidates at the time," said Valenti, who spoke to four of
the five appointees beforehand.

The makeup of the Housing Authority board is reflective of areas of
importance needed in a housing-management team, said Cahill, adding
the members' race and ethnicity mirror the city's population.

Board needs residentsThere have been two chances to appoint a
public-housing resident to the board since the law went into effect in
November 1999 - a council appointment in April 2000 when Harris was
reappointed and DCA's appointment of Bright this month.

A DCA spokesman reiterated the department's belief Bright will make a
good candidate when asked about the resident requirement.

Cahill said he couldn't speak for the council but noted there are
"ample reasons" to have selected Harris again. He did not know why the
council didn't pick a resident but said he has talked to the council
about the legal requirement.

Scott's appointment expires next month, but Cahill would not speak for
council members about whom they might appoint. Cahill said he did not
have any problems with Scott's performance as a commissioner.

Cahill said the federal HOPE VI project is an additional
responsibility to the commissioners' tasks of managing existing
properties and being commissioners of a redevelopment agency.

"They do a fine job under existing difficult circumstances," Cahill
said.

             Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail: swaters@....

             from the Home News Tribune

             Published: March 11, 2001


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1136
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-14 09:55:27
Subject:Re: [nbpc] partII
Message:

that is what we couldn't understand either. the reporter is responsible. 
home news 246.5500



>From: "Audrey Allred" <audreya99@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] partII
>Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 06:54:01 -0000
>
>radical activist?
>
>
>From: wacbush01@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] partII
>Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:18:27 -0000
>
>Housing-panel appointment attacked
>
>              Published in the Home News Tribune 3/11/01
>
>              By SHARON WATERS
>              STAFF WRITER
>
>NEW BRUNSWICK: A radical activist is protesting the recent appointment
>of Frank Bright to the New Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority
>board of commissioners, calling the designation a "political
>maneuver."
>
>Last week, the state Department of Community Affairs appointed Bright,
>a Republican activist who has criticized the city's Democratic
>leadership and ran unsuccessfully against Mayor James M. Cahill in
>1998.
>
>Cliff Smith, with the Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary
>Democracy, wants Bright to resign and for city officials and the
>Housing Authority to condemn the appointment.
>
>He objects because a federal regulation, which took effect in November
>1999, requires a public-housing resident to be on the board and none
>has been appointed.
>
>Bright has no plans to resign and said because the commissioners are
>not elected, they are political appointments. "There's no dodging that
>issue," he said.
>
>Appointment defendedWhen asked about Smith's charges, DCA spokesmen
>said the DCA believes Bright will make an excellent commissioner, work
>hard to serve the city and provide new ideas and leadership to the
>Housing Authority.
>
>"There was a determination made that this was the best candidate for
>the position," said spokesman E.J. Miranda.
>
>The DCA declined to say how many candidates were considered, whether
>Bright was recommended or nominated himself, and whether the DCA
>interviewed Bright.
>
>"A bunch of different people" recommended him, said Bright, noting he
>also recommended himself. Bright said he has talked to DCA staff for
>three years about Housing Authority issues and had asked how
>commissioners are appointed.
>
>Bright asked around the city to see if anyone was interested in
>serving but then "about a dozen prominent activists and community
>leaders" said he should be the commissioner, Bright said. He would not
>name who they are, saying people "don't need to know my support
>structure."
>
>Bright then approached Dennis Little, chairman of the Middlesex County
>GOP Organization. Little said Bright applied, and he sent only
>Bright's name to Trenton.
>
>Little said Bright is dedicated to New Brunswick and is capable of
>doing the job. But Mayor James M. Cahill, who said the city had no
>idea the state was considering Bright, said he would not have selected
>Bright "because of a lack of qualifications."
>
>Saying Bright "has had a tendency to be disruptive and combative,"
>Cahill said he was not familiar with what experience Bright would
>bring to the table except a political background as chairman of New
>Brunswick's Republican Party.
>
>Little answered, "Bet you if (Bright) had 'Democrat' after his name,
>he'd be qualified."
>
>Bright provided a resume showing experience in mechanical engineering,
>contract negotiations, construction layout and design, equipment
>inspection and welding. He has degrees in mechanical engineering and
>physics and currently designs explosive bolts for Cartridge Actuated
>Devices in Fairfield, NJ.
>
>Besides the DCA appointment, the mayor appoints one Housing Authority
>commissioner and the City Council appoints five.
>
>Resumes not suppliedThe commissioners appointed by Cahill and the
>council were asked by a reporter last month to provide copies of their
>resumes or work and volunteer experience. They declined the request
>but had the Housing Authority Attorney James Horvath provide a list of
>their current employer and "special experience." (Commissioner James
>Scott later provided a resume.)
>
>For the council's appointments, the list stated: Chairwoman Beatrice
>B. Harris is retired and a former public-housing resident; Scott is a
>self-employed consultant and former Housing Authority executive
>director with experience with HUD rules and regulations; Jerry Mercado
>works for Horizon Blue Cross/Blue Shield and has marketing and
>scholarship-program experience; Anthony Giorgianni is an iron worker
>with construction-management experience; Richard Kolesar works for US
>Securities Association, is a member of a plumber's union and has
>experience in construction trades and union-labor relations.
>
>The mayor's appointment, Yirgu Wolde, works for NJ Home & Mortgage
>Finance Agency with experience in housing management and
>administration and the financing of affordable housing, according to
>the list.
>
>The commissioners declined to say how they were selected and whether
>they were interviewed for the positions.
>
>When asked why he appointed Wolde, Cahill provided an extensive list
>of Wolde's past job duties and experience with HMFA and other
>employers including processing special-needs housing requests,
>preparing grant proposals and overseeing transitional-housing
>programs. Wolde, with two master's degrees, also has reviewed,
>processed and allocated low-income housing tax-credit applications,
>Cahill said.
>
>Cahill said he discussed the position and Housing Authority programs
>with Wolde, whom he has known for over 10 years.
>
>Council members Joseph B. Schrum, Joseph V. Egan and Blanquita Valenti
>said the council reviews resumes and selects the most qualified
>candidates.
>
>"We ran it by the mayor, of course, and we thought they were the best
>available candidates at the time," said Valenti, who spoke to four of
>the five appointees beforehand.
>
>The makeup of the Housing Authority board is reflective of areas of
>importance needed in a housing-management team, said Cahill, adding
>the members' race and ethnicity mirror the city's population.
>
>Board needs residentsThere have been two chances to appoint a
>public-housing resident to the board since the law went into effect in
>November 1999 - a council appointment in April 2000 when Harris was
>reappointed and DCA's appointment of Bright this month.
>
>A DCA spokesman reiterated the department's belief Bright will make a
>good candidate when asked about the resident requirement.
>
>Cahill said he couldn't speak for the council but noted there are
>"ample reasons" to have selected Harris again. He did not know why the
>council didn't pick a resident but said he has talked to the council
>about the legal requirement.
>
>Scott's appointment expires next month, but Cahill would not speak for
>council members about whom they might appoint. Cahill said he did not
>have any problems with Scott's performance as a commissioner.
>
>Cahill said the federal HOPE VI project is an additional
>responsibility to the commissioners' tasks of managing existing
>properties and being commissioners of a redevelopment agency.
>
>"They do a fine job under existing difficult circumstances," Cahill
>said.
>
>              Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail: swaters@....
>
>              from the Home News Tribune
>
>              Published: March 11, 2001
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1137
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-14 10:49:56
Subject:VICTORY FOR FREE SPEECH RIGHTS AT RUTGERS
Message:

Attached is an article from today's HNT about the ACLU-NJ's victory 
for free speech rights at Rutgers.  My apologies if this article is 
not completely germane to the newsgroup, but at least it deals with a 
New Brunswick institution like Rutgers.

Flavio Komuves


Rutgers beaten by alumni in ad suit 


Published in the Home News Tribune 3/14/01 
By SARAH GREENBLATT
STAFF WRITER
RUTGERS UNIVERSITY: Calling higher-education institutions 
the "quintessential marketplace of ideas," a state Superior Court 
judge yesterday took Rutgers University to task for blocking alumni 
from publicizing their views in the advertising pages of a university 
magazine. 

In a legal blow to Rutgers, Judge Joseph Messina ruled that the 
university violated the First Amendment rights of the Rutgers 1000 
Alumni Council by prohibiting the group from buying ads in Rutgers 
Magazine. 

The magazine had barred Rutgers 1000 ads that criticized the 
university's involvement in the Big East Athletic Conference. The 
magazine based the decision on unwritten policies against "advocacy" 
or "viewpoint" advertising. In letters and phone calls, officials 
gave slightly shifting explanations for rejecting a display ad 
quoting Nobel Laureate -- and Rutgers alumnus -- Milton Friedman on 
the academic purpose of universities and a classified ad soliciting 
inquiries about Rutgers 1000.

Messina said the policies did not meet legal requirements for 
limiting expression and that they represented "an attempt to suppress 
an opposing view."

Calling Rutgers 1000 the university's "loyal opposition," the judge 
said, "they have or should have an opportunity to be heard." 

The judge said the lawsuit, which was brought by the American Civil 
Liberties Union of New Jersey on behalf of Rutgers 1000, was "one of 
the most interesting cases I've heard in my career" and praised the 
efforts of the attorneys for both sides. 

Yet he rejected virtually each of the arguments advanced by Rutgers, 
including a contention that the advertising pages of the magazine 
represent a "nonpublic forum" that loosens standards for restricting 
free speech. 

Attorney Peter Skolnik, who is representing Rutgers, had argued the 
alumni received ample opportunities to air their views through 
letters to the editor, alumni notes and an article that featured 
diverse viewpoints on athletics at the university. 

The magazine's editorial director William Owens had testified that 
efforts were made to include the views of Rutgers 1000 Alumni Council 
leader Richard Seclow in a story that focused on the debate about 
athletics at Rutgers. 

But in doing so, Messina said, the university had designated the 
magazine as a "channel of communication or dialogue on the subject of 
big time sports." 

Owens had testified that he wanted to avoid ads that might distract 
readers from the magazine's purpose, which he said is to "engender 
loyalty, support and enthusiasm" for the university.

But the judge agreed with ACLU attorney Grayson Barber, who said the 
alumni group's views were born of loyalty and enthusiasm for Rutgers 
and could engender even greater interest and support for the 
university. 

Messina also disputed Skolnik's argument that an ad promoting tickets 
for a Big East Conference tournament simply acknowledged Rutgers' 
place in the NCAA Division I without endorsing it.

The ad in essence promoted Rutgers' status in the division, "giving 
readers only one side of the story," the judge said. 

Seclow, a member of the Class of 1951 who was elected to the Loyal 
Sons and Daughters of Rutgers, hailed the ruling somewhat ironically, 
calling it "a home run." 

Skolnik said Rutgers officials will review the ruling before deciding 
whether to appeal.

"Needless to say, we're disappointed," Skolnik said. "I think the 
judge is incorrect on the law." 

Sarah Greenblatt: (732) 565-7205. E-mail sgreenbl@...



from the Home News Tribune 

Published: March 14, 2001











-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1138
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-14 12:08:01
Subject:education discussion
Message:

HI everyone

Just a reminder to anyone interested in our education discussion group, we 
are meeting at my house 136 Baldwin st on this Sunday at 6pm.
If you need a ride please call me. We will be discussion the second chapter 
of Pedagogy of the Oppressed by Paulo Freire. It is on the "Banking concept 
of education" (students should have a copy in their Ways of Reading book 
from expos). Please let me know if you need a copy.

Thanks
Louise
545-7207
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1139
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-14 17:42:29
Subject:Re: [nbpc] MORE MATERIALS TO STUDY
Message:

i think i have 5yr & annual plan. contact me 214.8828 or 
cliffsmith69@...


>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] MORE MATERIALS TO STUDY
>Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:27:40 -0000
>
>
>This statute contains the requirement for public housing agency
>plans.  Whoever has the current 5-year agency plan for New Brunswick
>that was due 10/1/99, and the most recent annual plan, please speak
>up.  I am especially interest in its contents regarding � (d)(8)(B)
>and (d)(10) of the statute.  Note also subsection (e), which contains
>substantially ineffective plans for resident advisory boards.
>
>In addition, since the statute contemplates the potential for adverse
>interests between resident advisory board and board of directors, I
>am left to inquire: why does the RAB not have funds for its own
>attorneys?  Should this not be asked of the NBH&RA?
>
>42 U.S.C.A. � 1437c-1
>
>� 1437c-1. Public housing agency plans
>
>(a) 5-year plan
>
>   (1) In general
>
>Subject to paragraph (2), not less than once every 5 fiscal years,
>each public housing agency shall submit to the Secretary a plan that
>includes, with respect to the 5 fiscal years immediately following
>the date on which the plan is submitted--
>
>(A) a statement of the mission of the public housing agency for
>serving the needs of low-income and very low-income families in the
>jurisdiction of the public housing agency during such fiscal years;
>and
>
>(B) a statement of the goals and objectives of the public housing
>agency that will enable the public housing agency to serve the needs
>identified pursuant to subparagraph (A) during those fiscal years.
>
>   (2) Initial plan
>
>The initial 5-year plan submitted by a public housing agency under
>this subsection shall be submitted for the 5-year period beginning on
>October 1, 1999, or the first fiscal year thereafter for which the
>public housing agency initially receives assistance under this
>chapter.
>
>
>(b) Annual plan
>
>   (1) In general
>
>Effective beginning upon October 1, 1999, each public housing agency
>shall submit to the Secretary an annual public housing agency plan
>under this subsection for each fiscal year for which the public
>housing agency receives assistance under section 1437f(o) or 1437g of
>this title.
>
>   (2) Updates
>
>
>For each fiscal year after the initial submission of an annual plan
>under this subsection by a public housing agency, the public housing
>agency may comply with requirements for submission of a plan under
>this subsection by submitting an update of the plan for the fiscal
>year.
>
>(c) Procedures
>
>   (1) In general
>
>The Secretary shall establish requirements and procedures for
>submission and review of plans, including requirements for timing and
>form of submission, and for the contents of such plans.
>
>   (2) Contents
>
>The procedures established under paragraph (1) shall provide that a
>public housing agency shall--
>(A) in developing the plan consult with the resident advisory board
>established under subsection (e); and
>
>(B) ensure that the plan under this section is consistent with the
>applicable comprehensive housing affordability strategy (or any
>consolidated plan incorporating such strategy) for the jurisdiction
>in which the public housing agency is located, in accordance with
>title I of the Cranston- Gonzalez National Affordable Housing Act,
>and contains a certification by the appropriate State or local
>official that the plan meets the requirements of this paragraph and a
>description of the manner in which the applicable contents of the
>public housing agency plan are consistent with the comprehensive
>housing affordability strategy.
>
>(d) Contents
>
>An annual public housing agency plan under subsection (b) for a
>public housing  agency shall contain the following information
>relating to the upcoming fiscal year for which the assistance under
>this chapter is to be made available:
>
>
>   (1) Needs
>
>
>A statement of the housing needs of low-income and very low-income
>families residing in the jurisdiction served by the public housing
>agency, and of other low-income and very low-income families on the
>waiting list of the agency (including housing needs of elderly
>families and disabled families), and the means by which the public
>housing agency intends, to the maximum extent practicable, to address
>those needs.
>
>   (2) Financial resources
>
>A statement of financial resources available to the agency and the
>planned uses of those resources.
>
>   (3) Eligibility, selection, and admissions policies
>
>A statement of the policies governing eligibility, selection,
>admissions (including any preferences), assignment, and occupancy of
>families with respect to public housing dwelling units and housing
>assistance under section 1437(f) of this title, including--
>
>(A) the procedures for maintaining waiting lists for admissions to
>public housing projects of the agency, which may include a system of
>site-based waiting lists under section 1437d(r) of this title; and
>
>(B) the admissions policy under section 1437n(a)(3)(B) of this title
>for deconcentration of lower-income families.
>
>   (4) Rent determination
>
>A statement of the policies of the public housing agency governing
>rents charged for public housing dwelling units and rental
>contributions of families assisted under section 1437f(o) of this
>title.
>
>   (5) Operation and management
>
>A statement of the rules, standards, and policies of the public
>housing agency governing maintenance and management of housing owned,
>assisted, or operated by the public housing agency (which shall
>include measures necessary for the prevention or eradication of pest
>infestation, including by cockroaches), and management of the public
>housing agency and programs of the public housing agency.
>
>   (6) Grievance procedure
>
>A statement of the grievance procedures of the public housing agency.
>
>   (7) Capital improvements
>
>With respect to public housing projects owned, assisted, or operated
>by the public housing agency, a plan describing the capital
>improvements necessary to ensure long-term physical and social
>viability of the projects.
>
>   (8) Demolition and disposition
>
>With respect to public housing projects owned by the public housing
>agency--
>
>(A) a description of any housing for which the PHA will apply for
>demolition or disposition under section 1437p of this title; and
>
>(B) a timetable for the demolition or disposition.
>
>   (9) Designation of housing for elderly and disabled families
>
>With respect to public housing projects owned, assisted, or operated
>by the public housing agency, a description of any projects (or
>portions thereof) that the public housing agency has designated or
>will apply for designation for occupancy by elderly and disabled
>families in accordance with section 1437e of this title.
>
>   (10) Conversion of public housing
>
>With respect to public housing owned by a public housing agency--
>
>(A) a description of any building or buildings that the public
>housing agency is required to convert to tenant-based assistance
>under section 1437z- 5 of this title or that the public housing
>agency plans to voluntarily convert under section 1437t of this title;
>
>(B) an analysis of the projects or buildings required to be converted
>under section 1437z-5 of this title; and
>
>(C) a statement of the amount of assistance received under this
>chapter to be used for rental assistance or other housing assistance
>in connection with such conversion.
>
>   (11) Homeownership
>
>A description of any homeownership programs of the agency under
>section 1437f(y) or for which the public housing agency has applied
>or will apply for approval under section 1437z of this title.
>
>   (12) Community service and self-sufficiency
>
>A description of--
>
>(A) any programs relating to services and amenities provided or
>offered to assisted families;
>
>(B) any policies or programs of the public housing agency for the
>enhancement of the economic and social self-sufficiency of assisted
>families;
>
>(C) how the public housing agency will comply with the requirements
>of subsections (c) and (d) of section 1437j of this title (relating
>to community service and treatment of income changes resulting from
>welfare program requirements).
>
>(13) Safety and crime prevention
>
>A plan established by the public housing agency, which shall be
>subject to the following requirements:
>
>     (A) Safety measures
>
>The plan shall provide, on a project-by-project or jurisdiction-wide
>basis, for measures to ensure the safety of public housing residents.
>
>     (B) Establishment
>
>The plan shall be established in consultation with the police officer
>or officers in command for the appropriate precinct or police
>department.
>
>     (C) Content
>
>The plan shall describe the need for measures to ensure the safety of
>public housing residents and for crime prevention measures, describe
>any such activities conducted or to be conducted by the agency, and
>provide for coordination between the agency and the appropriate
>police precincts for carrying out such measures and activities.
>
>     (D) Secretarial action
>
>If the Secretary determines, at any time, that the security needs of
>a project are not being adequately addressed by the plan, or that the
>local police precinct is not complying with the plan, the Secretary
>may mediate between the public housing agency and the local precinct
>to resolve any issues of conflict.
>
>   (14) Pets
>
>The requirements of the agency, pursuant to section 31, relating to
>pet ownership in public housing.
>
>   (15) Civil rights certification
>
>A certification by the public housing agency that the public housing
>agency will carry out the public housing agency plan in conformity
>with title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Fair Housing Act,
>section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, and title II of the
>Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, and will affirmatively
>further fair housing.
>
>   (16) Annual audit
>
>The results of the most recent fiscal year audit of the public
>housing agency under section 1437c(h)(2) of this title.
>
>   (17) Asset management
>
>A statement of how the agency will carry out its asset management
>functions with respect to the public housing inventory of the agency,
>including how the agency will plan for the long-term operating,
>capital investment, rehabilitation, modernization, disposition, and
>other needs for such inventory.
>
>   (18) Other
>
>Any other information required by law to be included in a public
>housing agency plan.
>
>(e) Resident advisory board
>
>   (1) In general
>
>Except as provided in paragraph (3), each public housing agency shall
>establish 1 or more resident advisory boards in accordance with this
>subsection, the membership of which shall adequately reflect and
>represent the residents assisted by the public housing agency.
>
>   (2) Functions
>
>Each resident advisory board established under this subsection by a
>public housing agency shall assist and make recommendations regarding
>the development of the public housing agency plan for the agency. The
>agency shall consider the recommendations of the resident advisory
>boards in preparing the final public housing agency plan, and shall
>include, in the public housing agency plan submitted to the Secretary
>under this section, a copy of the recommendations and a description
>of the manner in which the recommendations were addressed.
>
>   (3) Waiver
>
>The Secretary may waive the requirements of this subsection with
>respect to the establishment of resident advisory boards for a public
>housing agency if the agency demonstrates to the satisfaction of the
>Secretary that there exist resident councils or other resident
>organizations of the public housing agency that--
>
>(A) adequately represent the interests of the residents of the public
>housing agency; and
>
>(B) have the ability to perform the functions described in paragraph
>(2).
>
>
>(f) Notice and hearing [FN1]
>
>   (1) In general
>
>In developing a public housing agency plan under this section, the
>board of directors or similar governing body of a public housing
>agency shall conduct a public hearing to discuss the public housing
>agency plan and to invite public comment regarding that plan. The
>hearing shall be conducted at a location that is convenient to
>residents.
>
>   (2) Availability of information and notice
>
>Not later than 45 days before the date of a hearing conducted under
>paragraph (1), the public housing agency shall--
>
>(A) make the proposed public housing agency plan and all information
>relevant to the hearing and proposed plan available for inspection by
>the public at the principal office of the public housing agency
>during normal business hours; and
>
>(B) publish a notice informing the public that--
>
>(i) that the information is available as required under subparagraph
>(A); and
>
>(ii) that a public hearing under paragraph (1) will be conducted.
>
>   (3) Adoption of plan
>
>A public housing agency may adopt a public housing agency plan and
>submit the plan to the Secretary in accordance with this section only
>after--
>
>(A) conducting a public hearing under paragraph (1);
>
>(B) considering all public comments received; and
>
>(C) making any appropriate changes in the public housing agency plan,
>in consultation with the resident advisory board.
>
>   (4) Advisory board consultation enforcement
>
>Pursuant to a written request made by the resident advisory board for
>a public housing agency that documents a failure on the part of the
>agency to provide adequate notice and opportunity for comment under
>this subsection and a finding by the Secretary of good cause within
>the time period provided for in subsection (i)(4), the Secretary may
>require the public housing agency to adequately remedy such failure
>before final approval of the public housing agency plan under this
>section.
>
>(g) Amendments and modifications to plans
>
>(1) In general
>
>Except as provided in paragraph (2), nothing in this section shall
>preclude a public housing agency, after submitting a plan to the
>Secretary in accordance with this section, from amending or modifying
>any policy, rule, regulation, or plan of the public housing agency,
>except that a significant amendment or modification may not--
>
>(A) be adopted, other than at a duly called meeting of board of
>directors (or similar governing body) of the public housing agency
>that is open to the public; and
>
>(B) be implemented, until notification of the amendment or
>modification is provided to the Secretary and approved in accordance
>with subsection (i).
>
>   (2) Consistency and notice
>
>Each significant amendment or modification to a public housing agency
>plan submitted to the Secretary under this section shall--
>
>(A) meet the requirements under subsection (c)(2) (relating to
>consultation with resident advisory board and consistency with
>comprehensive housing affordability strategies); and
>
>(B) be subject to the notice and public hearing requirements of
>subsection (f).
>
>(h) Submission of plans
>
>   (1) Initial submission
>
>Each public housing agency shall submit the initial plan required by
>this section, and any amendment or modification to the initial plan,
>to the Secretary at such time and in such form as the Secretary shall
>require.
>
>   (2) Annual submission
>
>Not later than 75 days before the start of the fiscal year of the
>public housing agency, after submission of the initial plan required
>by this section in accordance with subparagraph (A), each public
>housing agency shall annually submit to the Secretary a plan update,
>including any amendments or modifications to the public housing
>agency plan.
>
>(i) Review and determination of compliance
>
>   (1) Review
>
>Subject to paragraph (2), after submission of the public housing
>agency plan or any amendment or modification to the plan to the
>Secretary, to the extent that the Secretary considers such action to
>be necessary to make determinations under this paragraph, the
>Secretary shall review the public housing agency plan (including any
>amendments or modifications thereto) and determine whether the
>contents of the plan--
>
>(A) set forth the information required by this section and this Act
>to be contained in a public housing agency plan;
>
>(B) are consistent with information and data available to the
>Secretary, including the approved comprehensive housing affordability
>strategy under title I of the Cranston-Gonzalez National Affordable
>Housing Act for the jurisdiction in which the public housing agency
>is located; and
>
>(C) are not prohibited by or inconsistent with any provision of this
>subchapter or other applicable law.
>
>(2) Elements exempted from review
>
>The Secretary may, by regulation, provide that one or more elements
>of a public housing agency plan shall be reviewed only if the element
>is challenged, except that the Secretary shall review the information
>submitted in each plan pursuant to paragraphs (3)(B), (8), and (15)
>of subsection (d).
>
>   (3) Disapproval
>
>The Secretary may disapprove a public housing agency plan (or any
>amendment or modification thereto) only if Secretary determines that
>the contents of the plan (or amendment or modification) do not comply
>with the requirements under subparagraph (A) through (C) of paragraph
>(1).
>
>   (4) Determination of compliance
>
>     (A) In general
>
>Except as provided in subsection (j)(2), not later than 75 days after
>the date on which a public housing agency plan is submitted in
>accordance with this section, the Secretary shall make the
>determination under paragraph (1) and provide written notice to the
>public housing agency if the plan has been disapproved. If the
>Secretary disapproves the plan, the notice shall state with
>specificity the reasons for the disapproval.
>
>     (B) Failure to provide notice of disapproval
>
>In the case of a plan disapproved, if the Secretary does not provide
>notice of disapproval under subparagraph (A) before the expiration of
>the period described in subparagraph (A), the Secretary shall be
>considered, for purposes of this chapter, to have made a
>determination that the plan complies with the requirements under this
>section and the agency shall be considered to have been notified of
>compliance upon the expiration of such period. The preceding sentence
>shall not preclude judicial review regarding such compliance pursuant
>to chapter 7 of Title 5, [5 U.S.C.A. � 701 et seq.], or an action
>regarding such compliance under section 1979 of the Revised Statutes
>of the United States (42 U.S.C. 1983).
>
>   (5) Public availability
>
>A public housing agency shall make the approved plan of the agency
>available to the general public.
>
>(j) Troubled and at-risk PHAs
>
>   (1) In general
>
>The Secretary may require, for each public housing agency that is at
>risk of being designated as troubled under section 1437d(j)(2) of
>this title or is designated as troubled under section 1437d(j)(2) of
>this title, that the public housing agency plan for such agency
>include such additional information as the Secretary determines to be
>appropriate, in accordance with such standards as the Secretary may
>establish or in accordance with such determinations as the Secretary
>may make on an agency-by-agency basis.
>
>   (2) Troubled agencies
>
>The Secretary shall provide explicit written approval or disapproval,
>in a timely manner, for a public housing agency plan submitted by any
>public housing agency designated by the Secretary as a troubled
>public housing agency under section 1437d(j)(2) of this title.
>
>(k) Streamlined plan
>
>In carrying out this section, the Secretary may establish a
>streamlined public housing agency plan for--
>
>(A) public housing agencies that are determined by the Secretary to
>be high performing public housing agencies;
>
>(B) public housing agencies with less than 250 public housing units
>that have not been designated as troubled under section 1437d(j)(2)
>of this title; and
>
>(C) public housing agencies that only administer tenant-based
>assistance and that do not own or operate public housing.
>
>
>(l) Compliance with plan
>
>   (1) In general
>
>In providing assistance under this subchapter [42 U.S.C.A. � 1437 et
>seq.], a public housing agency shall comply with the rules,
>standards, and policies established in the public housing agency plan
>of the public housing agency approved under this section.
>
>   (2) Investigation and enforcement
>
>In carrying out this subchapter [42 U.S.C.A. � 1437 et seq.], the
>Secretary shall--
>
>(A) provide an appropriate response to any complaint concerning
>noncompliance by a public housing agency with the applicable public
>housing agency plan; and
>
>(B) if the Secretary determines, based on a finding of the Secretary
>or other information available to the Secretary, that a public
>housing agency is not complying with the applicable public housing
>agency plan, take such actions as the Secretary determines to be
>appropriate to ensure such compliance.
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1140
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-14 18:51:49
Subject:peoples' war on the right. republicans in the garbage can.
Message:

GO FRANK GO FRANK! Please stay safe and take care. Curtis L.
>

the peoples' campaign must reorganize itself as the peoples' 
democratic workers' campaign. (bush in east brunswick today
introduced his "peoples' budget"!!!  were any pc members there or in 
plainfield with him & skunk soaries pushing the fascist "faith-based" 
embezzlement?)

it must clearly state that it is j&j&c's political organization that 
is the principal enemy of the people of nb. that the republican party 
represents j&j more fully than the democrats. that j&j prefers 
republicans to democrats against the peopl.

the pc must purge itself immediately of its right wing, its
republican elements (specifically bright & warren). it must take 
responsibility, openly, for the serious error that it made (makes!) in 
encouraging the promotion of the republican party in nb. that it is 
directly responsible for preparing the republican attack on public 
housing. & for the establishment of the republican foothold in nb 
(bright/warren/soaries).

we call for unity on the basis of the peoples' campaign platform: 
seize power! (from j&j's political machine),
community control! (as against j&j's political machine)
put people first! (before j&j's corporate agenda)

cliff smith
student/worker organization for revolutionary democracy







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1141
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-14 19:11:12
Subject:march on trenton, may 16...
Message:




                State Supreme Court refuses
                to hear trooper appeal in
                turnpike case 

                By JOHN P. McALPIN
                The Associated Press
                3/14/01 6:12 PM

                TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- The state Supreme Court on
                Wednesday refused to hear an appeal by two state
                troopers charged in a New Jersey Turnpike shooting 
                that inflamed the state's racial profiling 
                controversy. 

                Troopers John Hogan and James Kenna had asked the
                high court to dismiss the charges. Kenna is charged 
                with attempted murder and aggravated assault; Hogan is
                charged with aggravated assault. 

                A trial judge dismissed the charges in October, but an
                appeals court later reversed the decision. The high   
                court did not offer a reason for denying the appeal,  
                which claimed a prosecutor omitted his obligation to 
                explain to the grand jury the law governing the 
                justified use of force by police officers. 

                Both men said they fired at a van they had stopped on 
                the turnpike near Trenton in April 1998 because it
                had started moving toward them. Three of the four men 
                inside -- all of them unarmed and all minorities -- 
                were injured. 

                Additional charges that the troopers doctored records 
                to hide the race of motorists they stopped were put
                on hold pending appeals in the shooting case. Federal 
                authorities are also pursuing possible civil rights 
                charges against Hogan and Kenna. 

                A year after the shooting, then-Attorney General Peter
                Verniero admitted state troopers had targeted minority
                drivers for drug prosecution. Documents released last 
                year showed that state officials had known that for 
                years before the shooting. 

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
                This material may not be published, broadcast, 
                rewritten, or redistributed.









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1142
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-14 19:33:34
Subject:defeat difransesco! mgreasy's feet to the fire!
Message:

                                  Bush says he will campaign
                                  for DiFrancesco in November 

                                  By JOHN P. McALPIN
                                  The Associated Press
                                  3/14/01 5:39 PM

                                  PLAINFIELD, N.J. (AP) -- President  
                                  Bush called him a good friend and   
                                  then promised to campaign for
                                  Acting Gov. Donald T. DiFrancesco
-- 
                                  in November's general election. 

                                  DiFrancesco still has to win a      
                                  Republican primary as well
                                  as actually file papers to run for 
                                  governor. 

                                  "Everyone knows the new acting      
                                  governor is my good friend and I 
                                  value his friendship," Bush said 
                                  Wednesday. 

                                  "I will be back in the general      
                                  election to help him win, if he 
                                  wants me," Bush said. 

                                  The president made his first visit  
                                  to New Jersey on Wednesday since 
                                  winning the election. He stopped in
                                  Plainfield and East Brunswick to    
                                  promote faith-based initiatives and 
                                  his $1.6 trillion tax cut. 

                                  Republican DiFrancesco accompanied 
                                  Bush throughout the day. 

                                  DiFrancesco took over the chief     
                                  executive's job in January after 
                                  Bush named Christie Whitman to head 
                                  the Environmental Protection
                                  Agency. 

                                  While thankful for the presidential 
                                  encouragement, DiFrancesco was 
                                  cautious not to boast of the 
                                  apparent endorsement. 

                                  "The president is a good friend of  
                                  mine and he offered to help in any  
                                  way possible," DiFrancesco said 
                                  after the East Brunswick stop. "I'm 
                                  very pleased with the visit. If     
                                  you're concerned with an 
                                  endorsement, I'm not. I haven't
                                  even filed my papers yet." 

                                  DiFrancesco said he expects the     
                                  president will help him both in the 
                                  Republican primary, where he faces
                                  a challenge from Jersey City Mayor  
                                  Bret Schundler, and the general 
                                  election. 

                                  Before beginning his speech, the    
                                  president wrapped DiFrancesco in a 
                                  bear hug. 

                                  "I'm very confident that at the     
                                  appropriate time, the
                                  administration and the president 
                                  will be with us politically," 
                                  DiFrancesco said. 

                                  Copyright 2001 Associated Press.
                                  All rights reserved. 
                                  This material may not be published, 
                                  broadcast, rewritten, or 
                                  redistributed.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1143
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-14 20:06:51
Subject:U&S production meeting 7pm, tues, 20 march
Message:

808 so. 10th st., nwk
contact joe smith 586.5535 or can_bush@...
unite, don't split!







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1144
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-15 10:30:41
Subject:HNT on DEVCO FYI
Message:

Devco board may face vacancy because of Bush choice 

            Published in the Home News Tribune 3/15/01 

            By SHARON WATERS
            STAFF WRITER

NEW BRUNSWICK: President George W. Bush's nomination of Michael 
Chertoff to head the U.S. Justice Department's criminal division may 
create a vacancy on the New Brunswick Development Corporation's board 
of directors.

Chertoff, a former U.S. attorney in New Jersey, has served on the 
Devco board since 1995 and is expected to resign from the board if his 
nomination is confirmed.

"While we will be sorry to lose Michael, the country will greatly 
benefit from his tremendous skills and his commitment to justice,"
said Devco Chairman George Zoffinger.

President Christopher J. Paladino said no decisions have been made 
about a possible replacement for Chertoff.

Devco does not have to fill Chertoff's board slot, noted Paladino. 
Devco's board must have at least three and no more than 20 members, he 
said.

Devco has 16 board members, Paladino said. Joe Whiteside, retired 
senior vice president and treasurer of Rutgers University, was 
appointed to the board last week, said Paladino.

The last board appointment before Whiteside was David Harris, a local 
activist who is the executive director of the Greater New Brunswick 
Day Care Council Inc. Harris, who also serves on the Rutgers 
University board of governors, was added to the Devco board in the 
first quarter of 2000. 

            Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@...

            from the Home News Tribune 

            Published: March 15, 2001







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1145
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-15 10:33:58
Subject:councilman Egan for Assembly
Message:


  Egan tells of race for Assembly 

            Published in the Home News Tribune 3/15/01 

            By J.P. WHITE
            and SHARON WATERSSTAFF WRITERS
       
NEW BRUNSWICK: Flanked by a host of Middlesex County Democratic 
leaders, City Councilman Joseph V. Egan announced his candidacy for 
the 17th District Assembly seat being vacated by Assemblyman Bob 
Smith, who is running for state Senate.

Smith, Woodbridge Mayor Jim McGreevey -- a Democratic gubernatorial 
candidate -- and others attended the formal announcement Tuesday at 
the headquarters of the International Brotherhood of Electrical 
Workers Local 456, where Egan is business manager.

A win by Egan would continue a long tradition of having a New 
Brunswick resident in the Legislature, said Dyke Pollitt, a
spokesman for Sen. John Lynch, who encouraged Egan's candidacy.

"I wouldn't call it a dynasty. I would call it a tribute to the city - 
producing leaders of quality voters want to return to the 
Legislature," he said.

Lynch has decided not to run for re-election, leaving a succession of 
openings for Smith's and Egan's campaigns.

"I'm sorry to see him go. I'm sure he'll be involved in the Democratic 
Party in some way in the future," Egan said of Lynch.

"I lived in New Brunswick all my life," Egan said Tuesday at the labor 
hall. "And I worked hard for working men and women all my adult life."

If nominated, Egan promised to tackle the high cost of insurance, 
property taxes and education issues across the state, with
allegiance to the election and re-election of all Democrats.

"If elected, I look forward to running on the Jim McGreevey team," 
Egan said.

"Joe Egan is a precious resource. In a special way Joe represents the 
special qualities of labor," said McGreevey, adding that the
Democrats must ensure the State's $12 billion school construction 
program is handled by New Jersey contractors and laborers.

Egan said he was proud of the support shown Tuesday by Democrats and 
labor leaders including: New Brunswick Mayor Jim Cahill; Assemblyman 
John Wisniewski, D-Middlesex; Assemblyman Jerry Green, D-Middlesex, 
Somerset, Union; Freeholder Director David Crabiel; Sheriff Joe 
Spicuzzo, and state AFL-CIO President Charles Wowkanech.

Egan's City Council term ends in 2002 but he has not decided if he 
will resign.

"I think it's a little premature to talk about it. I haven't even 
gotten the Democratic nomination yet," he said.

Representatives from the Middlesex County Republican Organization said 
they are waiting to see if district lines are redrawn
            before announcing any candidates.

            from the Home News Tribune 

            Published: March 15, 2001







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1146
Sender:"Paul McGee" <pmcgee@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-15 10:32:38
Subject:Labor sponsors FTAA teach-in at Rutgers
Message:

Please distribute the attached flyer on FTAA teach-in at RU's Labor Ed.
Center.

The event's being sponsored by CWA's Jobs w/Justice, who have organized
around WTO, etc., issues.  Many different labor people will be there.

Good opportunity to network and check out possibility of future
blue-green-black-red coalitions.

Thanks, Paul McGee, NJFO

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Bensman" <dbensman@...>
To: "Paul McGee" <pmcgee@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 10:03 PM
Subject: Fw: Attached.


> Paul would you please distribute a copy of the attached leaflet to the
grad
> students, and let as many other people about it as you can?
> Thanks,
> David



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1147
Sender:"Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-15 13:08:22
Subject:Letter to the Editor sent
Message:

	On March 19, three brothers working in November's New Brunswick municipal election will face charges of election misconduct before a Highland Park judge.  One of them, Matthew Smith, is a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign.  At these political trials, which were moved because of a conflict of interest involving the New Brunswick judge and prosecutor, the Smith brothers should be acquitted.

	There was criminal activity on Election Day, but it was committed by the New Brunswick City incumbents and their thugs.  They perpetrated hundreds of election law violations that day, including: illegal electioneering inside polling places; falsification of challenger's badges; terroristic threats made on independent campaign workers, in addition to one well-publicized assault carried out on Joseph Smith; lying to student voters about their ability to cast votes, while allowing machine-friendly voters to vote in the machines; and attempting to hide an American flag at a polling site are just some of the offenses that are now being investigated.  In the upcoming weeks, the New Brunswick People's Campaign will be releasing a report that details these offenses.  The real criminals who have exposed themselves as bankrupt must be brought to justice; but before this occurs, the Highland Park judge should throw out these politically motivated charges. 

Zofia Nowakowski
New Brunswick People's Campaign








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1148
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-15 18:50:48
Subject:ru mtg: trenton march to defeat racist profiling &police brutality
Message:

7pm, thursday, 22march
2nd fl. lounge, college ave. student ctr.

guest speaker: Minister Linnie Muhammad
               Trenton Representative 
               of the Honorable
               Minister Louis Farrakhan

organize students to support the march on trenton may16!

contact joe smith 586.5535 or can_bush@...









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1149
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-15 18:52:15
Subject:Re: Labor sponsors FTAA teach-in at Rutgers
Message:

i think the attachment was lost...

when is the teach-in?

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Paul McGee" <pmcgee@r...> wrote:
> Please distribute the attached flyer on FTAA teach-in at RU's Labor 
Ed.
> Center.
> 
> The event's being sponsored by CWA's Jobs w/Justice, who have 
organized
> around WTO, etc., issues.  Many different labor people will be 
there.
> 
> Good opportunity to network and check out possibility of future
> blue-green-black-red coalitions.
> 
> Thanks, Paul McGee, NJFO
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Bensman" <dbensman@r...>
> To: "Paul McGee" <pmcgee@r...>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 10:03 PM
> Subject: Fw: Attached.
> 
> 
> > Paul would you please distribute a copy of the attached leaflet to 
the
> grad
> > students, and let as many other people about it as you can?
> > Thanks,
> > David
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1150
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-15 18:54:06
Subject:Re: Letter to the Editor sent
Message:

good work, zofia.


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@u...> 
wrote:
> 	On March 19, three brothers working in November's New 
Brunswick municipal election will face charges of election misconduct 
before a Highland Park judge.  One of them, Matthew Smith, is a member 
of the New Brunswick People's Campaign.  At these political trials, 
which were moved because of a conflict of interest involving the New 
Brunswick judge and prosecutor, the Smith brothers should be 
acquitted.
> 
> 	There was criminal activity on Election Day, but it was 
committed by the New Brunswick City incumbents and their thugs.  They 
perpetrated hundreds of election law violations that day, including: 
illegal electioneering inside polling places; falsification of 
challenger's badges; terroristic threats made on independent campaign 
workers, in addition to one well-publicized assault carried out on 
Joseph Smith; lying to student voters about their ability to cast 
votes, while allowing machine-friendly voters to vote in the machines; 
and attempting to hide an American flag at a polling site are just 
some of the offenses that are now being investigated.  In the upcoming 
weeks, the New Brunswick People's Campaign will be releasing a report 
that details these offenses.  The real criminals who have exposed 
themselves as bankrupt must be brought to justice; but before this 
occurs, the Highland Park judge should throw out these politically 
motivated charges. 
> 
> Zofia Nowakowski
> New Brunswick People's Campaign







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1151
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-15 18:58:13
Subject:elected board campaign trial adjourned.
Message:

santos perez, attorney for cliff & joe smith announced that highland 
park municipal court has adjourned the trial scheduled for 10:30am, 
monday, 19 march.

the elected board campaign turned out the highest yes! vote of 
previous referendum efforts.  keep the pressure on!

unite, dont split.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1152
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-15 19:05:25
Subject:defeat the imperialist right!
Message:

check today's starledger p15 photo of bush2 w/arm around nj republican 
sec. of state, oops, i mean curtis' religious leader, deforest "skunk" 
soaries.

also, this:



                 Subject:  FRANK BRIGHT CAN BE A FACTOR TO GET A 
COMMUNITY CENTER

                 FRANK BRIGHT IS BELOVED BY THE PEOPLE. HE HAS A GOOD 
TESTIMONY FROM ALL,
                 AND FROM THE TRUTH ITELF. AND WE , MY FAMILY AND I  
BEAR WITNESS TO IT.
                 BELOVED JOE DO NOT IMITAITE WHAT IS EVIL , BUT WHAT 
IS GOOD. 

                 IT WAS OUR REPUBLICAN NEW BRUNSWICK LEADERSHIP THAT 
RALLIED PROGRESSIVE
                 AND GRASSROOTS COALITIONS IN RECORD TIME. FRANK 
BRIGHT IS A UNITER, NOT
                 A DIVIDER. FRANK BRIGHT DEFEND PUBLIC EDUCATION AND 
DEFEND EQUAL
                 OPPORTUNITY.

                 ALL IN ALL, LET SEE IF HE CAN US CLOSER TO A SIMMING 
POOL AND COMMUNIY.
                 IS THIS OUR GOAL. OR YOU PUT YOUR LEFTIST AGENDA 
FIRST BEFORE THE
                 PEOPLE.  

                 TRACY FORD







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1153
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-15 19:05:28
Subject:defeat the imperialist right!
Message:

check today's starledger p15 photo of bush2 w/arm around nj republican 
sec. of state, oops, i mean curtis' religious leader, deforest "skunk" 
soaries.

also, this:



                 Subject:  FRANK BRIGHT CAN BE A FACTOR TO GET A 
COMMUNITY CENTER

                 FRANK BRIGHT IS BELOVED BY THE PEOPLE. HE HAS A GOOD 
TESTIMONY FROM ALL,
                 AND FROM THE TRUTH ITELF. AND WE , MY FAMILY AND I  
BEAR WITNESS TO IT.
                 BELOVED JOE DO NOT IMITAITE WHAT IS EVIL , BUT WHAT 
IS GOOD. 

                 IT WAS OUR REPUBLICAN NEW BRUNSWICK LEADERSHIP THAT 
RALLIED PROGRESSIVE
                 AND GRASSROOTS COALITIONS IN RECORD TIME. FRANK 
BRIGHT IS A UNITER, NOT
                 A DIVIDER. FRANK BRIGHT DEFEND PUBLIC EDUCATION AND 
DEFEND EQUAL
                 OPPORTUNITY.

                 ALL IN ALL, LET SEE IF HE CAN US CLOSER TO A SIMMING 
POOL AND COMMUNIY.
                 IS THIS OUR GOAL. OR YOU PUT YOUR LEFTIST AGENDA 
FIRST BEFORE THE
                 PEOPLE.  

                 TRACY FORD







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1154
Sender:"Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-15 22:17:47
Subject:Portrait of a Meta-Physician
Message:

     SWORD has launched a sustained campign against community activist and 
working-class leader Curtis Warren for the past 9 months. Their continous 
attacks on Curtis bring meta-physical thinking to new heights of stupidity 
and make unity impossible.
     The essence of Marxism is materialist dialectics. The opposite of 
dialectics is meta-physics. Dialectics ackowledges the world in its 
multi-sided complexity and continous change, development and transformation. 
Meta-physics sees the world (and in the case at hand individuals) as static, 
one-sided and eternally the same. SWORD's position on Curtis is a case study 
of meta-physical thinking taken to bizarre extremes. Curtis Warren is among 
the most dedicated working-class activist in New Brunswick. He has proven 
himself and his commitment to the people of New Brunswick over and over 
again. SWORD just like the mayors ass Kevin Jones even attacked Curtis for 
maintaining the memorial tree dedicated to the memory of Sissy Adams on 
Powers St. Not only are their attacks an unwarranted insult to Curtis they 
are an insult to the entire Adams family and the people of New Brunswick. 
The tree is a real symbol of working class resistance.
     SWORD attacks Curtis over and over for two things. First for a single 
comment he made to the Home News reporter and secondly for being a member of 
First Baptist Church where Buster Soaries is the Pastor. First, to ignore 
all of Curtis's practice and statements and focus in a single statement 
obviously has nothing to do with Marxism or dialectics, or even 
semi-intelligent bourgeois thought for that matter. It is the meta-physical 
thinking that is taught in C.C.D. to young Catholic boys and girls. A 
lifetime of service to god can be ruined by a single unforgivable sin etc. 
etc. In "On the question of dialectics" Lenin explains this type of 
thinking:
"...Human knowledge is not (or does not follow) a straight line, but a 
curve, which endlessly approximates a series of circles, a spiral. Any 
fragment, segment, section of this curve can be transformed into an 
independent, complete, straight line, which then (if one does not see the 
forest for the trees) leads into the quagmire of clerical obsurantism (where 
it is anchored by the class interests of the ruling-classes)..."  Is this 
not exactly what SWORD has done? They have taken a single statement by 
Curtis and ignored all else. As Lenin sd above a fragment of information 
taken in a straight line leading to a quagmire of clerical obscurantism in 
ultra-left field where the SWORD is transformed into EXCALIBUR and cleanses 
the movement of Infidels...
    The second issue constantly being raised is that Curtis is a member of 
First Baptist Church. Freedom of Religion is a democractic right that needs 
to be defended even under socialism. Curtis has never advocated Pastor 
Soaries as a political leader. His choice of religion and church are a 
private matter which has nothing to do with political organizing.
     Finally, the joke of the new millenium is the constant repitition of 
the slogan: "Unite, don't split" and the references made to Weimar Germany. 
SWORD's attacks on Curtis are exactly the type of thing that Baraka is 
warning against when he brings up Weimar (The Weimar Republic was the German 
Government after WW1 and pre-Hitler). The point is that the refusal of 
Communist and liberals to unite is what allowed Hitler to step in. Despite 
their pleas for unity SWORD is the grouping that prevents unity by attacking 
allies within the united front as we stand before the enemy; just as the 
trots did in Spain which allowed Franco to march on Madrid. Curtis is not 
our enemy to treat him like an enemy is trotskyism it has nothing to do with 
revolution, Marxism, or working class power.
Take Care,
Keith

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1155
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-16 13:06:48
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Fwd: Gonzalez v Murdock - Democracy Now! at 9:00am
Message:

Tomorrow's edition of Democracy Now! will feature a debate
between Juan Gonzalez and Pacifica National Board member John
Murdock.

Tune in! Roll those Tapes.

Listeners on Pacifica stations: let us know if this runs on your
station.


Lyn
________________________

----Original Message Follows----
From: CFNJ-Communications
To: friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Fwd: Gonzalez v Murdock - Democracy Now! at 9:00am
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:32:58 -0800 (PST)
Friends,
This promises a healthy dose of fireworks. John
Murdock is the Pacifica National Board (PNB) member
who drafted these ugly bylaws changes and is also an
associate of Epstein Becker and Green, the anti-labor
and pro-HMO company the PNB has chosen as a consultant
and law firm to implement the demise of
free-speech/progressive radio.
Note: forwarded message attached.
__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1156
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-16 13:50:27
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Portrait of a Meta-Physician
Message:

keith in 1st paragraph, "SWORD makes unity impossible", and in last 
sentence, "to treat him like the enemy is trotskyism", when was it enacted 
by the reds that unity with trotsky was immpossible?

you cannot put it on SWORD that we organize splits, because as much as you 
wanna scream that we attacked curtis and we're so stupid, SWORD has never 
moved to expel warren, or anyone else from peoples' campaign. and check you 
out attempting to drive a wedge between sword and the adams family, explain 
that one.

i'm having a hard time understanding that your message is attemping to 
define that SWORD cannot be worked with on any basis because of our exposure 
of el curtis. why don't you take your arguement to the people and see that 
everybody on the street that knows soaries will tell you that he is a 
sell-out! not a religous leader... furthermore, curtis is not just a member 
of 1st baptist, he is employed by soaries and, simply put, an aspiring 
protege of soaries.

let us discuss the world we live in, as you suggest. there is an exact 
connection between the development of soaries with the police murder of 
shaun potts and warren with the police murder of carolyn adams. can you tell 
me where IN THE WORLD was warren before adams was killed? can you further 
explain to me why at coalition against police brutality meetings nothing 
else has been done outside of adams murder? roughly five years and a whole 
police running whore houses scam later (let alone racist profiling). 
samantha prince had been attending coalition meetings for a long while, and 
every plan of action she suggested was co-opted by warren with long 
discussion only about adams. and nothing has been done in five years. what a 
champion of the working class.

i won't even mention that el curtis sabatoged our event to commemorate the 
10 year mark of the police murder of shaun potts last summer by tearing down 
our literature so as not to let word be spread around 1st baptist. hhmmm...

maybe you would like to explain why warren, "who has the right to practice 
religion and is just a member of 1st baptist and is the most dedicated 
working class activist in new brunswick", is an active member of the 
republican party?

maybe you would like to explain why you yourself are an active member of the 
republican party.

maybe you would like to explain how such "a single comment to the home news" 
even came about to begin with? where does the commentS, "WE are not here to 
tear down any political machine, WE are just here to try to do better" and 
that "WE are (ready and) willing to work with the corporations in new 
brunswick...", come from? do those commentS come from a dedicated working 
class activist? where does that thought pattern come from, working class or 
betrayal class? WE is not me.

why has njfo never criticized the commentS at all, like they are part of 
your program also. those comments slander the peoples' campaign platform of 
which i have never violated. and also i have never been able to petition the 
general body about my expulsion led by xavier and enacted by the steering 
committee.

curtis has never advocated soaries as a political leader you say. maybe, but 
the problem is it that el curtis associates himself at all with developing 
nazis. also the problem is that curtis has never spoken against sucker and 
his right wing agenda and for someone that is that close to him, not to 
condemn is only to embrace regardless if he stated it, that is the way the 
WORLD works.

why does sucker hold hostage the over 1/2 million $$ already released by the 
state to crossroads threatre? does that not attack black working class 
culture, where is "working class activist curtis" to defend the threatre?

the ultimate error with you and your relationship with curtis is that rather 
than organize the community, you latch on to someone that serves your 
immediate purposes. problem is, you're being used. and that is what leads 
and led to the rise of fascism. the so called communists/revolutionaries 
surrendered their platforms to the right wing elements, and in turn dug the 
graves for the masses of people.  that is what you are doing know by not 
even putting forward your position on the selection of bright, of which i 
shouldn't even have to ask.

sword will unite with liberals, not republicans and those that aspire to 
sell-out, you can have 'em. problem is, platform of community control has 
lost.

joe


>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Portrait of a Meta-Physician
>Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 03:17:47 -0000
>
>      SWORD has launched a sustained campign against community activist and
>working-class leader Curtis Warren for the past 9 months. Their continous
>attacks on Curtis bring meta-physical thinking to new heights of stupidity
>and make unity impossible.
>      The essence of Marxism is materialist dialectics. The opposite of
>dialectics is meta-physics. Dialectics ackowledges the world in its
>multi-sided complexity and continous change, development and 
>transformation.
>Meta-physics sees the world (and in the case at hand individuals) as 
>static,
>one-sided and eternally the same. SWORD's position on Curtis is a case 
>study
>of meta-physical thinking taken to bizarre extremes. Curtis Warren is among
>the most dedicated working-class activist in New Brunswick. He has proven
>himself and his commitment to the people of New Brunswick over and over
>again. SWORD just like the mayors ass Kevin Jones even attacked Curtis for
>maintaining the memorial tree dedicated to the memory of Sissy Adams on
>Powers St. Not only are their attacks an unwarranted insult to Curtis they
>are an insult to the entire Adams family and the people of New Brunswick.
>The tree is a real symbol of working class resistance.
>      SWORD attacks Curtis over and over for two things. First for a single
>comment he made to the Home News reporter and secondly for being a member 
>of
>First Baptist Church where Buster Soaries is the Pastor. First, to ignore
>all of Curtis's practice and statements and focus in a single statement
>obviously has nothing to do with Marxism or dialectics, or even
>semi-intelligent bourgeois thought for that matter. It is the meta-physical
>thinking that is taught in C.C.D. to young Catholic boys and girls. A
>lifetime of service to god can be ruined by a single unforgivable sin etc.
>etc. In "On the question of dialectics" Lenin explains this type of
>thinking:
>"...Human knowledge is not (or does not follow) a straight line, but a
>curve, which endlessly approximates a series of circles, a spiral. Any
>fragment, segment, section of this curve can be transformed into an
>independent, complete, straight line, which then (if one does not see the
>forest for the trees) leads into the quagmire of clerical obsurantism 
>(where
>it is anchored by the class interests of the ruling-classes)..."  Is this
>not exactly what SWORD has done? They have taken a single statement by
>Curtis and ignored all else. As Lenin sd above a fragment of information
>taken in a straight line leading to a quagmire of clerical obscurantism in
>ultra-left field where the SWORD is transformed into EXCALIBUR and cleanses
>the movement of Infidels...
>     The second issue constantly being raised is that Curtis is a member of
>First Baptist Church. Freedom of Religion is a democractic right that needs
>to be defended even under socialism. Curtis has never advocated Pastor
>Soaries as a political leader. His choice of religion and church are a
>private matter which has nothing to do with political organizing.
>      Finally, the joke of the new millenium is the constant repitition of
>the slogan: "Unite, don't split" and the references made to Weimar Germany.
>SWORD's attacks on Curtis are exactly the type of thing that Baraka is
>warning against when he brings up Weimar (The Weimar Republic was the 
>German
>Government after WW1 and pre-Hitler). The point is that the refusal of
>Communist and liberals to unite is what allowed Hitler to step in. Despite
>their pleas for unity SWORD is the grouping that prevents unity by 
>attacking
>allies within the united front as we stand before the enemy; just as the
>trots did in Spain which allowed Franco to march on Madrid. Curtis is not
>our enemy to treat him like an enemy is trotskyism it has nothing to do 
>with
>revolution, Marxism, or working class power.
>Take Care,
>Keith
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1157
Sender:Zofia Nowakowski <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-16 15:08:21
Subject:Hello
Message:

Hello,

I basically think NB is in a crisis period.  It is
turning the corner on gentrification as we write. The
New Brunswick Apartments (by Commercial Ave) have
changed ownership, residents are being given "enhanced
vouchers" to leave that expire after 5 years, and
tenants have been asked to sign new leases, which they
may not understand.  Also, I just found out Mrs. Adams
is currently walking around New Brunswick looking for
a place to live.  What we are seeing is the planned
large scale destruction of affordable housing, and the
planned large scale introduction of nonaffordable
housing. 

We need to develop and source as much resource as we
can right now, and the question is how to do this
effectively.  

Another thought is I think we should have a meeting
for discussion about Keiths proposal to support
McGreevey in the upcoming election.  This is a big
issue, is a departure from the prior modus operendi,
and we must air full debate for all membership to
participate before its decided in a general meeting.

Also, it would be good to have a meeting focused on
the housing authority issue where information can be
shared and strategy discussed.

Finally, many people in the community are distrustful
of politics, and understandablly so.  In addition to
the political work we do, we need to recognize the
value of spaces that are not too full of politicized
and charged hype so people feel safe to engage, and
can come together to begin to identify crises and
figure out how to resolve them, while at the same time
building connections for long-term and larger scale
change.

Zofia

__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1158
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-16 16:19:07
Subject:NBTomorrow to atnd comm. cent. meeting
Message:

for further dialog regarding New Brunswick Community Center Task 
Force go to NBCCTF@egroups.com or nb_cc_tf@egroups.com  - joe


----- Original Message -----
>From: Ken Sammond
>Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 12:44 PM
>To: Joseph Mosley
>Subject: NBT & the Community Center Task Force
>
>
>Joseph,
>
>Greetings from New Brunswick Tomorrow (NBT).
>
>Allow me to introduce myself, I am Kenneth Sammond, the Director of 
>Development at NBT.  Jeffrey Vega, our President, asked if I could 
meet with you to discuss your goal and interest in creating a 
community center for all persons in our city (I have been a Hub City 
resident for over five years).
>
>I plan to attend the next meeting of the Community Center Task Force 
to obtain a greater understanding of this initiative and see how NBT's 
priorities link up with this endeavor.  Currently, I understand this 
meeting will be held on the last Tuesday of March, from 6:30 to 7:30 
pm. at 116 Livingston Avenue.  If this is incorrect, please notify me.
>
I look forward to meeting you and discussing this initiative.  If you 
have any questions in the meantime, do not hesitate to contact me via 
email or telephone. I can be reached at 246-0603.  Thank you so much.
>
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Ken Sammond









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1159
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-16 18:46:06
Subject:skunk soaries on racist profiling in nj:
Message:

>soaries was put in office 1/99, less than 1yr after the 4/98 tpk 
shooting, as a willing cover for official state terrorism (fascism). 
while whitman's admin. denied the existence of profiling!

monday, 19march, state hearings begin on the official republican 
denial of profiling. then atty gen'l peter verniero (now on nj
supreme 
court) is key witness who denied profiling existed before the 
shooting. he will be impeached & removed from the court.

at shaun potts '91 funeral, after his murder by nb police, soaries
was 
quoting malcolm x on the need to seize power! we see what his view of 
siezing power is. ("we're not here to tear down the political
machine, 
we're just here to do better...")

join the march on trenton (may16) to defeat racist profiling & police 
brutality!

join the Coalition for Justice! seize power from imperialism!

from nj secretary of state website:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 

             Thursday, March 11, 1999
                                                      Contace: Missy 
Gillespie

                                                      609-292-1166


   SECRETARY OF STATE AFFIRMS ADMINISTRATION SUPPORT OF STATE POLICE;
                     CALLS A.G.'s INVESTIGATION THOROUGH & EXTENSIVE

     Secretary of State DeForest B. Soaries, Jr. today said that "the 
current debate surrounding the New Jersey State Police is much too 
important to become a political football" and that the Whitman 
Administration has exhibited courageous leadership in moving to 
resolve divisive issues that detract from the critical work of the 
State Police. 

     "These problems did not begin with this Administration but I am 
confidant that they will end under the Whitman Administration," 
Secretary Soaries said. "I am disappointed that the first Governor
and 
Attorney General who have taken decisive steps to improve the State 
Police's relationship with all people are being attacked and
subjected 
to partisan bickering. Our Troopers are some of the most professional 
and admirable men and women in America. And, as a black man and 
law-abiding citizen, I can tell you that there are legitimate
concerns 
regarding racial profiling. Yet we must be careful not to create
scapegoats and blame individuals; instead we must change a culture 
that allows problems to ferment. That is exactly what this Governor 
and Attorney General are doing." 

     Secretary Soaries said that as a Police Chaplain who has had to 
officiate at funeral services for law enforcement personnel,
including 
an officer who committed suicide, he is well aware of the bravery and 
pressures commanded by such important jobs. He said for every one 
complaint there are ninety-nine other officers performing vital deeds 
and services. In fact, he noted that Camden residents requested the 
presence of the State Police in acknowledgement of the necessary role 
they play in keeping communities safe and whole. Acknowledging that 
questionable incidents involving law enforcement receive heightened 
attention, Secretary Soaries said he believes that the pending
results 
of the Attorney General's comprehensive investigation of the April 23 
Turnpike shooting will help change public perceptions and prompt 
healing surrounding sensitive, racial issues. 

     "Attorney General Peter Verniero is the same man who spearheaded 
the process that resulted in the appointment of New Jersey's first
African-American Supreme Court Justice. He has appointed the first 
Hispanic director of Gaming, the first African-American director of 
elections and undertaken numerous other initiatives to improve the 
relationship of law enforcement with all people, including his recent 
Law Enforcement Summit, "Secretary Soaries said. "He has been 
proactive, and, if anything should have an early hearing on his 
nomination to the Supreme Court so that the public
can hear exactly what he has done in service to New Jersey." 

     Secretary Soaries also discussed the current search process for
a 
new Superintendent of the New Jersey State Police. He serves on the 
search committee with Attorney General Verniero, Chief Counsel John 
Farmer, former Attorney General James R. Zazzali, and Director of 
Criminal Justice Paul Zoubek. He noted that the search will include 
both uniform and civilian candidates and candidates from within and 
outside of New Jersey. To date, seven candidates, all from New
Jersey, 
have been interviewed. Criteria for the pre-screening process include 
factors such as management ability, knowledge of law enforcement, 
communication skills, leadership ability and experience with issues 
related to diversity. 

     "We have no specific timetable but we have made this a priority. 
I want to assure the State Police and the public that this will be a 
fair, non-political, non-racial, comprehensive search and that we are 
considering a broad range of issues that are appropriate for a 
position of this responsibility," he said. 

     Secretary Soaries, who manages Governor Whitman's Many Faces - 
One Family diversity initiative, said that he will expand the program 
to proactively address issues before they become fodder for partisan 
debate. Soaries, New Jersey's first African-American male Secretary
of 
State, took office on January 12, 1999. 








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1160
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-16 18:55:02
Subject:"Black Ministers" on profiling hearings:
Message:

who was it that whitman campaign organizer ed rollins sd was given 
"street money" to suppress the nj black vote while she won by less 
than 1%?

anyone remember?





                Black Ministers cheer start of
                inquest but warn against
                scapegoating 

                By RALPH SIEGEL
                The Associated Press
                3/16/01 4:38 PM

                TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- The Black Ministers Council
                applauded upcoming Senate hearings into racial 
profiling
                but cautioned lawmakers against hunting for a 
scapegoat,
                according to a statement issued Friday. 

                The Senate Judiciary Committee Monday is scheduled to
                begin at least four days of public hearings on racial
                profiling, when the New Jersey State Police and the 
state
                attorney general's office knew about the practice and 
what
                they are doing about it. 

                "The hearings should not be about getting anybody, but
                getting at the truth and the facts about racial 
profiling. The
                Black Ministers Council is not calling for the 
resignation or
                the impeachment of anyone," said the council's 
director,
                the Rev. Reginald Jackson. 

                Jackson and the council have for three years taken a 
lead
                role in pressing the former Whitman administration on
                state police reforms. 

                The mention of impeachment is a reference to Supreme
                Court Justice Peter Verniero, who in an unprecedented
                step has agreed to appear before the committee to 
discuss
                his actions as attorney general prior to his 
confirmation to
                the bench in May 1999. He joined the court the 
following
                September when Justice Stewart Pollock retired. 

                Assemblyman William Payne, D-Essex, called for
                Verniero's impeachment last year based on volumes of
                papers on the topic released by the current attorney
                general, John Farmer. Payne renewed the call last week
                as depositions from witnesses interviewed by Judiciary
                committee lawyer Michael Chertoff were made public. 

                Jackson praised the Judiciary chairman, Sen. William
                Gormley, R-Atlantic, for staging the hearings and for 
his
                thorough preparation. 

                While many questioned Verniero's experience and
                qualifications during his 1999 confirmation hearings, 
the
                Black Ministers Council at the time said his cover-up 
of
                racial profiling was the central issue as it opposed 
his
                appointment. 

                "It is clear from depositions and other documents that 
have
                been released that some of what we were told before 
was
                not accurate, and in fact misleading," Jackson said 
Friday.
                "There are some questions the (Council) believes need 
to
                be asked, not just of former Attorney General 
Verniero, but
                of his immediate predecessor and others in the 
attorney
                general's office and leadership of the state police." 

                In particular, Jackson said, the committee must 
address
                why state officials for three years refused to accept 
a 1996
                ruling by a trial judge in Gloucester County who 
wanted to
                dismiss some two-dozen criminal cases after concluding
                troopers had a pattern of racial profiling 

                Further, Jackson said lawmakers must ask if racial
                profiling would have been kept secret were it not for 
the
                1998 shooting on the New Jersey Turnpike. "The answer 
to
                this question is critically important and the minority
                community in particular, and the state at large, need 
to
                know," he said. 

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1161
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-16 18:59:26
Subject:racist rogers on profiling:
Message:

CITY TOURS BEING PLANNED: AmeriCop is planning to tour 10 cities and 
towns
                               this summer to boost public support for 
the police. Additionally, stops will
                               be made at several rest areas on the NJ 
Turnpike where public support will be
                               encouraged for NJ State Troopers.

                               -TROOPER GUNS  RECALLED: Last week 
AmeriCop weighed in on the problems NJ
                               Troopers were having with their newly 
issued pistols. We are happy to report
                               that the weapons are being recalled.

                               -PETITION DRIVE FOR NYPD COP CONTINUES: 
AmeriCop is continuing its efforts to
                               raise 10,000 names on petitions, in an 
effort to help Officer Charles Schwarz
                               get released from prison.  Thousands of 
citizens across America are convinced
                               Schwarz is innocent of the crimes he 
was accused of during the Volpe/Louima
                               trial which tool place in NYC two years 
ago. (More info)(Print petition)

                                                                  
Commentary
                                                          Standing up 
for America's Finest
                                                                   by: 
Steven L. Rogers


                               Unfortunately, individuals who express 
opinions which represent an
                               "anti-police" position are doing 
everything possible to demoralize the rank
                               and file of America's finest, and in 
particular New Jersey State Troopers.

                               These individuals have managed to 
capture the attention of the press, the
                               public, and the politicians. They have 
been successful in part, because the
                               majority of our leaders, both inside 
and outside the law enforcement
                               community have remained silent. Hence, 
when AmeriCop began to address these
                               high profile issues, individuals who 
have had a honeymoon bashing the police,
                               became somewhat stunned and are now 
expressing concern as to what strength we
                               are able to galvanize and how much 
impact we will have on the political
                               establishment.

                               At no time in the history of this 
republic has the police come under such an
                               intense attack. On television, radio 
and in the newspapers, the police are
                               being portrayed as the bad guys. While 
the "cop bashers" continue their
                               crusade, politicians who seek our 
support every November, run for cover.

                               This November however, there is going 
to be nowhere for them to hide. At
                               every public event, every meeting, 
every news interview, the question to
                               numerous politicians running for office 
is going to be asked- Where were you
                               when the police needed you? Where were 
you when New Jersey State Troopers
                               needed your encouragement and support? 
It will be interesting to see how they
                               answer that question. Because with an 
answer comes a political price to pay.

                               America's police officers need to know 
very clearly that the majority of the
                               people in this nation support them. 
They need to know that in the face of
                               tremendous opposition and criticism, 
the American people and America's
                               leaders are standing with them.  
AmeriCop provides the collective voice of
                               the American people in support of those 
who are called to protect and serve.
                               We intend to use that voice for the 
good of the police and the people.

                               Politicians know one language, votes! 
AmeriCop is going to make it very clear
                               to the political operatives who have 
remained silent and refused to support
                               our nations police, that we understand 
their language, and will turn our
                               political guns towards them come 
election time.  Tough talking? You bet!  But
                               these are tough times and we are 
addressing tough issues.

                               Many citizens continue to ask the 
question-"How are you (AmeriCop) able to
                               accomplish so much?" First, our mission 
is focused. We are not interested in
                               fund raising; therefore we do not have 
to spend time seeking donations.
                               Instead of seeking money, we seek the 
hearts, voices, and good will of the
                               American people.

                               AmeriCop knows very well that money is 
not the answer to the problems the
                               police profession is facing today.  
Instead, the answer lies in a willingness
                               of leaders to go into the arena on 
behalf of the hard working citizens and
                               police officers who need our support, 
and to challenge those individuals who
                               seek to destroy good men, good women, 
and good police organizations.

                               It is easy to sit behind a desk and 
make people feel good about what you say
                               you are doing for them. It is another 
matter to actually face overwhelming
                               odds and fight the good fight of faith 
on a national platform.

                               It is time for all Americans to stand 
up and voice their support for the
                               police by writing letters, signing 
petitions, and making calls to the people
                               we have elected to office to represent 
the interests of the people and not
                               the interest of special interest 
groups.

                               In the future, AmeriCop will be 
organizing a 10 city tour where we will be
                               bringing thousands of people together 
in support of their police. In the
                               meantime we ask you to send your 
emails, letters, and cards to us, expressing
                               your support for your local police. We 
ask you to spread the word about
                               AmeriCop and let the people know we 
need to work together to protect those
                               who protect us.

                               Thank you for standing up for America's 
finest and for supporting the
                               Greatest Cops In The World.-  Steven 
Rogers.

                                                                      
END







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1162
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-17 14:23:51
Subject:impeach verniero! march on trenton!
Message:

Hearing spotlight will be
                harsh on Verniero 

                By RALPH SIEGEL
                The Associated Press
                3/17/01 11:04 AM

                TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- In 10 days, Peter Verniero will
                temporarily shed his judicial robes and testify again 
before
                the same Senate committee that approved his 
appointment
                to the New Jersey Supreme Court 22 months ago. 

                On Monday, the committee begins at least four days of
                public hearings on racial profiling, what the New 
Jersey
                State Police and the state attorney general's office 
knew
                about it and when, and what they did -- or did not do 
--
                about it. 

                Verniero, a former attorney general, is scheduled to 
appear
                on March 28, the final day. He is clearly the star 
attraction.

                Verniero told lawmakers in 1999 it did not become 
plain to
                him that racial profiling was a pattern and a problem 
in
                some state police units until that spring. Critics say
                documents disclosed since then show significant data 
was
                on his desk years earlier. 

                Six of the 11 senators he will be facing under oath 
voted no
                when the full Senate acted on his Supreme Court
                appointment 22 months ago. He was confirmed with the
                minimum 21 votes needed. 

                Further, two Republican senators who voted yes at the
                time now say they have serious second thoughts about
                their decision. And the committee is chaired by Sen.
                William Gormley, R-Atlantic, who has been discreetly
                silent on his views about Verniero lately. 

                The Verniero confirmation hearings featured some
                discussion about racial profiling, but the debate was
                mostly about the then-40-year-old Annandale lawyer's
                credentials for the bench after a career spent mostly 
as a
                political operative for Republicans like former Gov. 
Christie
                Whitman. 

                "I always believed he was always a political 
character, and
                a lot of the media and the people around there thought 
he
                was a lawyer," said Sen. John Lynch, D-Middlesex, the
                panel's ranking Democrat. At the confirmation 
hearings, he
                tried to make the state police more of the focus, 
peppering
                the attorney general with questions about memos,
                statistics and hiring decisions. 

                Since then, Lynch said, the volumes of additional 
evidence
                released by Attorney General John Farmer and provided 
in
                Judiciary Committee depositions -- all of it 
undisclosed
                when Verniero last appeared -- tilts the case more 
severely
                against Verniero. 

                "The record will be clear that he manipulated the 
process
                to his own benefit," Lynch said. "There is no question 
that
                he had knowledge of the seriousness of racial 
profiling, but
                that needs to come out." 

                It is unprecedented for the Legislature to seek 
testimony
                from three of the state's top seven members of the 
judicial
                branch, including the chief justice. 

                The Judiciary Committee's special counsel, Michael
                Chertoff, a former U.S. attorney, agreed to take
                closed-door depositions from Chief Justice Deborah 
Poritz
                and Associate Justice Jaynee LaVecchia, sparing them
                from a live appearance in a hearing room certain to be
                abuzz with news media and observers. But Gormley has
                insisted that Verniero testify publicly. 

                Depositions recently made public by the committee
                include one from Verniero's chief aide in the attorney
                general's office, Paul Zoubek, who said Verniero went
                against his staff's advice and pressed ahead with the 
April
                1999 indictments against troopers John Hogan and James
                Kenna for falsifying records. 

                Zoubek and others feared Verniero might jeopardize the
                effort to bring more serious charges against the two
                troopers for the 1998 shooting of three minority men 
during
                a New Jersey Turnpike car stop. But Zoubek in his
                deposition said Verniero was more worried about the 
public
                perception that things were happening too slowly. 

                Verniero's appearance before the committee will give 
its
                members and others a second assessment of his 
veracity.

                "I think the public is going to be asking me to pass
                judgment on him, and I take that responsibility on him 
very
                seriously," said Sen. John Matheussen, R-Gloucester, 
who
                supported Verniero's confirmation in 1999. 

                Sen. Louis Kosco, R-Bergen, voted in favor of Verniero
                without hesitation two years ago. 

                "Well, we are having second thoughts, certainly. There 
are
                a lot of questions that have to be answered, and he is
                going to have to answer them," he said. 

                Both men said Verniero's answers on racial profiling 
were a
                key in their decision to support him for the bench. 
Since
                then, both said their views have been altered by the 
reams
                of documents and depositions. 

                "If I found out that he lied on his job application, I 
would be
                outraged," Matheussen said. "This is probably one of 
the
                more serious things I have ever had to look at as a 
state
                legislator." 

                Lawmakers will not formally discuss judicial 
impeachment,
                a measure technically reserved for behavior on the 
bench,
                not prior to appointment. But one legislative aide 
told The
                Associated Press impeachment has become an
                increasingly lively topic of cloakroom conversation. 

                "Who knows if it will amount to anything, but it is 
shocking
                to hear them even talking about the topic less than 
two
                months after Whitman leaves the state," the aide said. 

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1163
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-17 14:27:57
Subject:nj racist profiling committee
Message:

NJ--Racial
                Profiling-Committee 

                The Associated Press
                3/17/01 11:00 AM

                Members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which 
begins
                hearings Monday on racial profiling, and how the 
members
                voted in May 1999 on former Attorney General Peter
                Verniero's nomination to the state Supreme Court. 

                SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE 

                7 Republicans, 4 Democrats. 

                James S. Cafiero, R-Cape May, voted yes. 

                Garry Furnari, D-Essex, voted no. 

                John A. Girgenti, D-Passaic, voted no. 

                William L. Gormley, R-Atlantic, chairman, voted yes. 

                Louis F. Kosco, R-Bergen, voted yes. 

                John A. Lynch, D-Middlesex, voted no. 

                Robert J. Martin, R-Morris, voted yes in committee, no 
on
                Senate floor. 

                John J. Matheussen, R-Gloucester, voted yes. 

                Edward T. O'Connor, D-Hudson, voted no. 

                Norm Robertson, R-Passaic, voted yes. 

                Raymond J. Zane, R-Gloucester, voted no. 

                Note: Sen. John O. Bennett, R-Monmouth, voted yes in
                1999 but no longer sits on committee. Zane was a
                Democrat at the time of his no vote. 

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1164
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-17 14:29:52
Subject:nj racist profiling chronology
Message:

NJ--Racial
                Profiling-Chronology 

                The Associated Press
                3/17/01 10:59 AM

                A chronology of legislative activity since a shooting 
by
                state troopers escalated the controversy over racial
                profiling. The Senate Judiciary Committee opens a new
                round of racial profiling hearings on Monday. 

                --April 23, 1998: Troopers James Kenna and John Hogan
                fire on a Dodge Caravan containing four minority men 
from
                New York during a traffic stop on the New Jersey 
Turnpike
                in Mercer County. Three of the van's occupants are
                wounded. Troopers claim the van was backing up to 
strike
                them. 

                --April 13, 1999: The Legislative Black and Latino 
Caucus
                conducts first of three public hearings with witnesses
                testifying about racial profiling incidents. The 
caucus
                eventually calls for outside civilian oversight of the 
state
                police. 

                --April 20: Attorney General Peter Verniero releases 
report
                saying racial profiling is "real, not imagined." The 
report
                acknowledges blacks are not only pulled over more 
often,
                they are far more likely to have their vehicles 
searched. 

                --April 26: Verniero appears before the first Senate
                Judiciary Committee on racial profiling and gives a 
public
                briefing on that report. 

                --May 6: Following two days of hearings, the Senate
                Judiciary Committee votes 7-4 to approve Verniero's
                nomination to state Supreme Court. 

                --May 10: After hours of debate, the Senate confirms
                Verniero with the minimum number of votes, 21. Three
                Republicans join all 15 Democrats to oppose the
                nomination. 

                --Aug. 27: The Black and Latino Caucus schedules a
                hearing for Aug. 30, giving minority troopers a chance 
to
                testify about racial discrimination within the state 
police. A
                letter to the troopers from acting Superintendent 
Michael
                Fedorko reminds them of regulations against disclosing
                confidential information. Some regard the letter as a 
threat
                to discourage those who might have considered 
testifying. 

                --Sept. 22, 2000: Attorney General John J. Farmer
                announces his decision to release state police records
                related to racial profiling, after months of fighting 
in court to
                block the release of the documents. 

                --Oct. 16: Senate Judiciary Committee asks to review
                those documents. Former U.S. Attorney Michael Chertoff
                agrees to head panel's inquiry. Chairman Sen. William 
L.
                Gormley, R-Atlantic, says hearings will be held. 

                --Nov. 20: Committee asks former Gov. Christie Whitman
                to turn over any records related to racial profiling 
in her
                office. 

                --Nov. 27: Farmer releases nearly 100,000 pages of 
state
                police documents. Reports, memos and other items show
                state authorities knew for more than a decade that
                minorities were being targeted for traffic stops by 
troopers. 

                --Feb 6, 2001: Committee releases witness list for
                hearings. Verniero and two other Supreme Court 
justices
                are named along with Farmer, several deputies in the
                attorney general's office and state police officers, 
including
                two former superintendents. 

                --March 6: Committee releases transcripts of 
depositions
                from more than two dozen key witnesses. Testimony
                includes statements from top state police officers and
                deputies in the attorney general's office that racial 
profiling
                was ignored, even after evidence showed troopers 
targeted
                minority drivers. 

                --March 8: Committee members agree to limit their 
racial
                profiling inquiry to a list of 11 issues. 

                --March 14: Committee releases final transcript of 
witness
                testimony. First Assistant Attorney General Paul 
Zoubek
                says Verniero bowed to public pressure and ordered
                indictment of troopers on records falsification 
charges. 

                --March 19: First of four scheduled hearings to begin. 

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1165
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-17 14:32:54
Subject:verniero's imperialist testimony
Message:

NJ--Racial
                Profiling-Testimony 

                The Associated Press
                3/17/01 10:55 AM

                Excerpts of former Attorney General Peter G. 
Verniero's
                testimony about racial profiling during Senate 
Judiciary
                Committee hearings on his nomination as an associate
                justice of the New Jersey Supreme Court. 

                May 5, 1999 

                "As I said last week, I have ultimate responsibility 
for every
                action that is taken in my department, and 
specifically on
                the racial profiling issue, I feel I discharged my
                responsibility at all appropriate times." 

                "It was not until ... the turnpike incident of April 
of 1998
                where the issues and allegations of racial profiling
                crystallized in my mind. And at that point forward, I 
took
                very aggressive steps, I believe, at all the 
appropriate
                times." 

                "We began looking in earnest at these issues a year 
ago,
                and beyond that, as I indicated, we had a law 
enforcement
                summit in December of last year because I was so
                troubled and so concerned about the opinion surveys 
that I
                was seeing in which persons of color, minority 
citizens,
                distrusted police almost in an inverse proportion to 
majority
                citizens, non-minorities, who trusted police. And it 
became
                very apparent to me that we had a great divide in New
                Jersey, and that was very troubling to me, as chief 
law
                enforcement officer." 

                May 6, 1999 

                "As I say, the allegations of profiling crystallized 
in my
                mind around the time of the turnpike case. That's when 
we
                began looking at data in a comprehensive way starting 
with
                the two barracks." 

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1166
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-17 14:35:29
Subject:nj official state terrorism (fascism)
Message:

NJ--Racial Profiling-Glance 

                The Associated Press
                3/17/01 10:53 AM

                The Senate Judiciary Committee has examined the nearly
                100,000 pages of documents on racial profiling 
released by
                New Jersey's attorney general in November. 

                The committee has also interviewed 28 current and 
former
                state police officials and ranking deputies in the 
attorney
                general's office. 

                Here are some of the materials the committee is
                considering: 

                --A report that looked at the race of motorists who 
had
                been searched on the New Jersey Turnpike on randomly
                selected dates from 1994 to 1996. Of 542 searches, 84
                percent involved minority motorists. At one barracks, 
94
                percent of the drivers searched in one three-month 
period
                were minorities. 

                --An excerpt from a 1989 state police memo containing
                one of the earliest internal warnings: 

                "New Jersey's status as a corridor state combined with 
its
                large Hispanic and black population ... exposes New
                Jersey state troopers to increased interaction with 
black
                and Hispanic criminals. The State Police, which is 
tasked
                with patrolling these interstate roadways, has 
recognized
                this situation and has accepted this `front line' role 
in the
                `war on drugs."' 

                --Another report that examined 31 incidents on the 
turnpike
                in 1995 and 1996 that resulted in arrests. Of the 46 
people
                arrested, only eight were white. Of the 30 cars 
stopped, 29
                were from out of state. 

                --An excerpt from a 1999 memo from a high-ranking 
deputy
                attorney general: 

                "Racial profiling exists as part of the culture. The
                assumption is made that minorities are drug dealers 
and
                cops are encouraged to stop them and toss their cars." 

                -- The deposition of First Assistant Attorney General 
Paul
                Zoubek in which he described a meeting with 
then-Attorney
                General Peter Verniero as the first anniversary of the
                incident in which two state troopers shot and wounded
                three minority motorists on the New Jersey Turnpike
                neared. Prosecutors had just told Verniero that their
                investigation needed more time. 

                Zoubek: "The question that the attorney general asked
                was, can we move the falsification indictment because 
we
                need to demonstrate action on this because we are 
getting
                subject to criticism of delay in this investigation." 

                Committee attorney Michael Chertoff: "Did anybody . . 
.
                besides the attorney general recommend that the
                falsification indictment be brought out before the
                anniversary of the shooting?" 

                Zoubek: "That was brought up by the attorney general." 

                Chertoff: "He was the one who recommended or raised 
that
                issue?" 

                Zoubek: "Yes." 

                --The deposition of state police Sgt. Thomas Gilbert, 
who
                testified that he began collecting data that showed 
minority
                drivers were stopped and searched much more frequently
                than white drivers. By February 1997 that data was in 
the
                hands of Carl Williams, then state police 
superintendent,
                and was then forwarded through a deputy to Verniero,
                witnesses said. 

                --The deposition of former Deputy Attorney General
                Alexander Waugh, who testified about meetings with
                Verniero. 

                Chertoff: "During this period, at meetings with the 
attorney
                general, was there a discussion about the fact that 
this
                was a real problem that had to be addressed and 
fixed?" 

                Waugh: "I think that the consensus was that it was not
                clear that it was a significant event ... that there 
was a
                pattern or a practice of racial profiling going on." 

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1167
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-17 14:38:42
Subject:all eyes on trenton. march may16.
Message:







                Page after page, records set
                stage for committee hearings 

                By JOHN P. McALPIN
                The Associated Press
                3/17/01 10:51 AM

                TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- Page by page the story of how
                New Jersey's war on drugs became racial profiling has
                been laid out -- first in a cache of documents from 
the
                attorney general, then in transcripts of more than two
                dozen interviews with key law enforcement and state
                government officials. 

                Now comes time for the people behind that story -- 
state
                police officers, prosecutors, past and present 
attorneys
                general -- to tell their side before a state Senate
                committee. 

                "It's all there in the papers, in the record, 
everything is
                there. We're just going to walk people through it, 
hear what
                they have to say and then the committee will ask
                questions. Hopefully, we'll get answers," said state 
Sen.
                William L. Gormley, R-Atlantic, chairman of the Senate
                Judiciary Committee. 

                The committee's hearings begin Monday. They will focus
                on the state's response to the mounting evidence that
                racial profiling -- the practice of targeting minority 
motorists
                for traffic stops -- was being practiced by the state 
police. 

                While the attorney general's office knew as early as 
1988
                that race-based profiles of drug couriers were 
problematic,
                the committee's inquiry concentrates on a three-year
                period and the actions of one man. 

                In 1996, a Superior Court judge allowed racial 
profiling as a
                defense and dismissed evidence in drug cases. 

                In 1999, then Attorney General Peter Verniero admitted
                racial profiling was "real, not imagined" in a report 
issued
                before he joined the state Supreme Court. 

                The committee wants to know why the state continued to
                appeal the 1996 decision while state police audits
                increasingly indicated that blacks and other 
minorities
                were targeted more often than whites for traffic 
stops. 

                Verniero will be called to answer allegations that his 
office
                did not cooperate in the early stages of an 
investigation by
                the U.S. Justice Department. 

                Also under scrutiny is the decision to indict two 
state
                troopers on charges they falsified records at the same 
time
                a separate grand jury was investigating their 
involvement in
                the April 1998 shooting on the New Jersey Turnpike 
that
                outraged minority residents and drew national 
attention to
                the racial profiling issue. 

                Verniero later said it was not until the shooting and 
its
                investigation that racial profiling "crystallized" in 
his mind. 

                First on the witness list is state police Sgt. Thomas
                Gilbert, once assigned to study motor vehicle stops by
                fellow troopers. 

                A 1997 report by Gilbert says: "At this point, we are 
in a
                very bad spot. The Justice Department has a very good
                understanding of how we operate and what type of
                numbers they can get their hands on to prove their
                position." 

                Gilbert's study examined work done by troopers at the
                Moorestown barracks from April to December 1994 and
                again from July to December 1996. His data said 
minority
                motorists accounted for 89 percent of those subjected 
to
                searches by state troopers. Another study of troopers 
at
                the Cranbury barracks reportedly showed minorities
                accounted for 94 percent of all searches. 

                Last on the schedule is Verniero himself. Several
                witnesses have told the committee's interviewers that
                Verniero oversaw much of the investigation into 
profiling. A
                deputy attorney general said during one period he 
spoke
                with Verniero almost daily on the subject. But others 
said
                Verniero and high-ranking deputies never saw key 
reports
                that the Justice Department demanded. 

                In a May 1997 meeting, Verniero asked Carl Williams, 
then
                the state police superintendent, about data collected 
by
                Gilbert. 

                "The attorney general sort of fixed him in the eye, 
and said,
                `Look -- let's get this straight, is racial profiling 
a problem
                at the state police' and he said no," testified 
Alexander
                Waugh, a former deputy attorney general. 

                "I think that the consensus was that it was not clear 
...
                that there was a pattern or a practice of racial 
profiling
                going on," Waugh said. 

                All of these-once private conversations are now 
recounted
                in copies of the transcript available on the Internet 
and in a
                special reading room at the Statehouse. Also public 
are
                nearly 100,000 pages of records released in November 
by
                Attorney General John J. Farmer Jr. 

                The public deserves to see the details and hear all 
the
                answers, Gormley said. 

                "That's why we're doing this. We are going to have
                everything out in the open. At the end of this, people 
are
                going to be able to say this was one of the most 
thorough
                hearings ever held by the Legislature," Gormley said. 

                ------ 

                On the Net: 

                http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/ 

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1168
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-15 16:02:29
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Letter to the Editor sent
Message:

excellent work zofia.

joe


>From: "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Letter to the Editor sent
>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:08:22 -0500
>
>	On March 19, three brothers working in November's New Brunswick municipal 
>election will face charges of election misconduct before a Highland Park 
>judge.  One of them, Matthew Smith, is a member of the New Brunswick 
>People's Campaign.  At these political trials, which were moved because of 
>a conflict of interest involving the New Brunswick judge and prosecutor, 
>the Smith brothers should be acquitted.
>
>	There was criminal activity on Election Day, but it was committed by the 
>New Brunswick City incumbents and their thugs.  They perpetrated hundreds 
>of election law violations that day, including: illegal electioneering 
>inside polling places; falsification of challenger's badges; terroristic 
>threats made on independent campaign workers, in addition to one 
>well-publicized assault carried out on Joseph Smith; lying to student 
>voters about their ability to cast votes, while allowing machine-friendly 
>voters to vote in the machines; and attempting to hide an American flag at 
>a polling site are just some of the offenses that are now being 
>investigated.  In the upcoming weeks, the New Brunswick People's Campaign 
>will be releasing a report that details these offenses.  The real criminals 
>who have exposed themselves as bankrupt must be brought to justice; but 
>before this occurs, the Highland Park judge should throw out these 
>politically motivated charges.
>
>Zofia Nowakowski
>New Brunswick People's Campaign
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1169
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-18 12:48:11
Subject:a time to march...coalition for justice statement:
Message:

coalition for justice
2 prospect st
trenton nj 08618
609 394 2060

for immediate release 14 march 01

A TIME TO MARCH:
THE MARCH ON TRENTON TO PROTEST POLICE BRUTALITY & RACIAL PROFILING

(Statement by Lawrence Hamm, Chairman, Coalition for Justice, and
head of the People's Organization for Progress at a press conference 
held at the statehouse in Trenton, NJ, Wednesday, March 14, 2001.  For
further information call 973 801 0001.)

Today, the Coalition for Justice (CFJ) calls upon everyone to be part 
of our March on Trenton, NJ, the state capital, on Wednesday, May 16
of this year.

We are calling this March because the problems of police brutality
and racial profiling are having a terrible effect on the lives of 
people 
throughout the state.  We are marching to demand an end to police 
brutality and racial profiling, to draw attention to these problems,
to advance reforms for police forces at the state and local levels,
and
to bring pressure to bear on government at all levels to enact these 
reforms.

This March arises out of our concern about recent incidents of police 
brutality and racial profiling including the death of Earl Faison
while in police custody in Orange, NJ, the shooting death of Stanton 
Crew on Rt. 80, the deaths of Jenny Hightower an Natalie Williams in 
Trenton, the shooting of three minority men on the NJTpk by state 
troopers, the killing of Amadou Diallo and other police brutality 
cases.

The Coalition for Justice is an alliance of grassroots, religious, 
civil rights, human rights, labor, student, and civic organizations, 
ordinary citizens, community leaders, activists, and elected
officials. CFJ calls upon all individuals and organizations concerned 
about the problems of police brutality and racial profiling to attend 
the March which will begin at 11:00am and the rally at the statehouse 
which will begin at 12:00noon.

The Coalition asks the community to support our demands, which in 
summary form are as follows: We demand the establishment of legally 
empowered, adequately funded, independent community-controlled police 
review boards with full investigative and subpoena powers, for police 
forces at the state, county, and local levels; the establishment of
an Office of the Independent State Posecutor to investigate and
prosecute cases of police brutality and racial profiling and other 
criminal justice system abuses; and passage of legislation that will 
outlaw all racial profiling by state, county, and local police, and
all 
other entities.

We demand that Mr. John J. Farmer, Jr., Attorney General of the State 
of New Jersey, reopen the investigation into the death of Earl
Faison.  We demand state and federal investigations into the deaths
of 
Jenny Hightower and Natalie Williams, federal prosecution of the 
killers of Stanton Crew, and investigations into all other cases of 
police brutality.

We demand a full review of the involvement and activities of New
Jersey Supreme Court Justice Peter Verniero while state Attorney 
General, with regards to the issue of racial profiling by New Jersey 
State Troopers. We demand his removal from the state Supreme Court 
because of the manner in which he handled and dealt with that issue.

We demand the implementation of racial bias testing for police at all 
levels; the hiring of more African-American, Latino, women, and other 
minorities as officers at state, county, and local levels.  Finally,
we demand the full conviction on all counts of troopers John Hogan &
James Kenna at their September 4 trial, and that the trial be 
maintained in Mercer County with the current state prosecutor.  At
the 
conclusion of this press conference representatives of the coalition 
will visit the offices of the governor and attorney general to
request 
that meetings be scheduled to discuss our demands.

In addition to our demands, we encourage the passage of all
legislation related to truly solving the problems of police brutality 
and racial profiling proposed by members of the NJ Legislative Black 
and Latino Caucus.  We are particularly interested in S-858 (Turner/
Bryant/co:James) and A-937 (Jones/Payne) which would establish a 
Civilian Board of Review and investigate complaints and allegations
of 
state police misconduct, and S-861 (Bryant/James) and A-938 (Payne 
Watson/Coleman) which would create an Office of the Independent 
Prosecutor.

The Coalition is calling a mass organizing meeting for the March for 
Saturday, April 7.  It will take place at the Imani Community Center,
2 Prospect St. in Trenton at 4pm.  We invite everyone throughout the 
state and region who is interested in organizing or participating in 
the March to attend.

People are suffering and dying because of police brutality and racial 
profiling.  The pain is unbearable, the injustice is unconscionable, 
and the situation is critical.  Now is the time for fundamental
change in police forces and the criminal justice system.  Now is the 
time for people to march.  Let us march together for justice on May
16.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1170
Sender:Jeremy Gross <jagross@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-19 01:37:06
Subject:[njfo] Join an international campaign against Plan Colombia (fwd)
Message:


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:57:53 -0500
From: Dahlia Goldenberg <daliag@...>
Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [njfo] Join an international campaign against Plan Colombia

Dear NJFO friends,

I am here in Ecuador for a year studying with women's grassroots organizations.  I have a friend who is working to organize a campaign against Plan Colombia, and they are looking for US organizations and individuals who would like to work on the campaign.  The organization is Women for Democrary (Mujeres por la Democracia), and they are particularly looking for women's organizations, or at least the perspective that they will put on the campaign is from the perspective of women's organizations.  If NJFO, Sisterhood and Struggle, or any of you (men or women) as individuals would like to get involved, you can write to me.  Also feel free to forward this to anyone who may be interested, or give me the contact info. for anyone who may be interested.  The idea is for you, along with other participants, to find the funds to come to Ecuador in a few months and design the campaign together with women from Ecuador and other parts of Latin America.  

Also, there will be an event in Brooklyn to honor Colombian human rights activists and peace activists.  The organizer of the event is an attorney who is also working with someone from WBAI radio and the Colombia Media Project.  He is not affiliated with the campaign in Ecuador.  

The event is April 29, 2001 from 11am to 3pm at the Brooklyn Society for Ethical Culture, 53 Prospect Park West.  If you want more info., or want to help publicize the event around New Brunswick, drop me a line, and I'll send you the contact info.

Thank you!!!!!!!

Dahlia Goldenberg







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1171
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-19 02:21:19
Subject:Re: Portrait of a Meta-Physician
Message:

>      Finally, the joke of the new millenium is the constant 
repitition of 
> the slogan: "Unite, don't split" and the references made to Weimar 
Germany. 
> SWORD's attacks on Curtis are exactly the type of thing that Baraka 
is 
> warning against when he brings up Weimar (The Weimar Republic was 
the German 
> Government after WW1 and pre-Hitler). The point is that the refusal 
of 
> Communist and liberals to unite is what allowed Hitler to step in. 
Despite 
> their pleas for unity SWORD is the grouping that prevents unity by 
attacking 
> allies within the united front as we stand before the enemy; just as 
the 
> trots did in Spain which allowed Franco to march on Madrid. Curtis 
is not 
> our enemy to treat him like an enemy is trotskyism it has nothing to 
do with 
> revolution, Marxism, or working class power.

The comparison seems valid, at least loosely.    

Let's not forget, too, that to believe in Purity, to believe that 
there is some pure inner truth to any given person -- this is the 
basic idea that guides the most virulent forms of racism and gender 
oppression.  

This isn't as abstract as it seems.  Think of the old technique in the 
South of connecting "the defense of our White women" with "the 
necessity of keeping Blacks in their place".  

Unfortunately, if you insist upon a concept of morality that splits 
people up into Pure Good and Pure Evil, you end up having a way of 
thinking in common with something much much worse than 'Trotskyism' 
...

Yours,

Jeremy 






 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1172
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-19 15:30:10
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Portrait of a Meta-Physician
Message:

jeremy/keith, in response to the section below can you explain how curtis is 
liberal and not republican? and do either of you know what i can do to get 
njfo's position on the selection of bright?

keith how can you simotaneously uphold Amiri: Republicans in the Garbage 
Can! Peoples' War on the Right! and working with republicans within your 
organization? seems as if something has to give...

joe


Finally, the joke of the new millenium is the constant
repitition of the slogan: "Unite, don't split" and the references made to 
Weimar Germany.
SWORD's attacks on Curtis are exactly the type of thing that Baraka
is warning against when he brings up Weimar (The Weimar Republic was
the German Government after WW1 and pre-Hitler). The point is that the 
refusal of Communist and liberals to unite is what allowed Hitler to step 
in. Despite their pleas for unity SWORD is the grouping that prevents unity 
by attacking allies within the united front as we stand before the enemy; 
just as the trots did in Spain which allowed Franco to march on Madrid. 
Curtis is not our enemy to treat him like an enemy is trotskyism it has 
nothing to do with revolution, Marxism, or working class power.

>
>The comparison seems valid, at least loosely.
>
>Let's not forget, too, that to believe in Purity, to believe that
>there is some pure inner truth to any given person -- this is the
>basic idea that guides the most virulent forms of racism and gender
>oppression.
>
>This isn't as abstract as it seems.  Think of the old technique in the
>South of connecting "the defense of our White women" with "the
>necessity of keeping Blacks in their place".
>
>Unfortunately, if you insist upon a concept of morality that splits
>people up into Pure Good and Pure Evil, you end up having a way of
>thinking in common with something much much worse than 'Trotskyism'
>...
>
>Yours,
>
>Jeremy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1173
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-19 15:41:00
Subject:Reflection of a Portrait of a Meta-Physician
Message:

Joe wrote:
"there is an exact connection between the development of soaries with the 
police murder of shaun potts and warren with the police murder of carolyn 
adams. can you tell me where IN THE WORLD was warren before adams was 
killed? can you further explain to me why at coalition against police 
brutality meetings nothing else has been done outside of adams murder?"


Joe's statement here really drags this dispute to a new level of absurdity 
and does more to undermine the credibility of BOL/SWORD's callous, dogmatic, 
devisive charges against Curtis than I thought was possible.  In order to 
substantiate this hole that they've dug themselves into, Joe has now 
resorted to discrediteding Curtis by way of discrediting the entire history 
of the New Brunswick Coalition Against Police Brutality.  First off, to 
question where Curtis was before Sissy Adams was murdered by the NBPD is 
tantamount to betrayal of the role of an organizer, especially one who 
considers himself a revolutionary...Isn't it part of our role to lead the 
spontaneous upsurge caused by anticipated crisis (in this case, police 
brutality & Adams murder) & to seek out the "advanced" from the people?  To 
attack Curtis for stepping up to as a force in organizing his community, 
building the Coalition and as a consistant support for the greeving Adams 
family, is not only betrayal, but when this comes from a white, suburban 
bred settler in a community of poor, opressed nationalities, it really comes 
tinged with a subtle, but deep rooted chauvinism.

As for this incredible charge that the Coalition did nothing for years but 
work on the Adams case (I guess this is to say that Curtis manipulated us 
all that time to serve his own dasturdly ends as an
"imperialist running dog" !!), here is a partial list of our campaigns:

* Organized protests in the wake of the Adams murder, forced killer cop 
Consalvo off the force and out of town.  Upkept the Memorial Tree till this 
date, a broadly recognized symbol of popular resistance.

* Organized for 3 years to "Free the NB Three"--Omar Auten & Co.; Ultimately 
got charges dropped, and used the opportunity to bring wide public exposure 
to terrorist Sgt "Craterface" Millroy.

* Organized wide public exposure of NBPD/Somerset PD/County Sheriff Office 
break-ins & attacks on residences in Rutgers Village

* Organized wide public exposure of HUD sanctioned NBPD break-ins at NB 
Homes.

* Organized wide public exposure of Marshal/Chincilla shooting & retirement 
scheme, bringing first broad public scrutiny of prostitution houses through 
prees conferences, flyering etc. (contrary to Joe's strange assertions that 
we did nothing & BOL/SWORD's self-aggrandazing that they single-handedly 
brought convictions against Marshall & Chincilla.)

* Organized "Know Your Rights" public education campaigns throughout the NB 
neighborhoods for several years.

* Organized still incomplete "Right to Know" lawsuit to gain access to 
internal police files

* Organized campaigns to promote the cause for community control over the 
police, and community police review control board locally, & statewide.

* Organized against Racist Profiling statewide in the wake of the 
Hogan/Kenna turnpike shootings.

* etc, etc.

I could go on, but the point is that the work of the NBCAPB is a critical 
legacy of popular resistance, building unity & encouraging struggle in NB.  
Some of the closest allies the the Peoples' Campaign had in the community 
were a result of the years of work by the Coalition and people like Curtis.  
To attack this legacy in order to prop up BOL/SWORD's dogmatic, puritanical 
crusade against Curtis is opportunistic at best, and worse, it threatens 
more still to create divisions where they need not be and totally betrays 
their own demands to "Unite, Don't Split".


Finally, this: Joe wrote: "samantha prince had been attending coalition 
meetings for a long while, and every plan of action she suggested was 
co-opted by warren with long discussion only about adams."

Now, in my years with the Coalition, I witnessed Curtis & Samantha in a 
great, productive, & mutually respectful working relationship.  I can't 
speak for her, but what I saw was that she actually distanced herself from 
BOL during the City Council Race because she was embarassed by their attacks 
on Curtis, attacks that have continued in the most unprincipled manor, in 
the name of revolutionary principles, and in the most divisive way, in the 
name of Unity.  Same shit.

Hey, Joe- Take it easy...take a breath...this ain't happening...you're 
causing far more people to keep to keep their distance than would otherwise 
want to work with you.  Why dig the hole deeper?  BOL/SWORD has had some 
very valid criticisms of the PC & NJFO that could & should be discussed, but 
that is getting obscured in this, & it severely undermines your credibility 
& as Curtis said, while you attack him "your real enemy is closing in on 
you."

Matthew






----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith"
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Portrait of a Meta-Physician
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:50:27 -0500
keith in 1st paragraph, "SWORD makes unity impossible", and in last
sentence, "to treat him like the enemy is trotskyism", when was it enacted
by the reds that unity with trotsky was immpossible?
you cannot put it on SWORD that we organize splits, because as much as you
wanna scream that we attacked curtis and we're so stupid, SWORD has never
moved to expel warren, or anyone else from peoples' campaign. and check you
out attempting to drive a wedge between sword and the adams family, explain
that one.
i'm having a hard time understanding that your message is attemping to
define that SWORD cannot be worked with on any basis because of our exposure
of el curtis. why don't you take your arguement to the people and see that
everybody on the street that knows soaries will tell you that he is a
sell-out! not a religous leader... furthermore, curtis is not just a member
of 1st baptist, he is employed by soaries and, simply put, an aspiring
protege of soaries.
let us discuss the world we live in, as you suggest. there is an exact
connection between the development of soaries with the police murder of
shaun potts and warren with the police murder of carolyn adams. can you tell
me where IN THE WORLD was warren before adams was killed? can you further
explain to me why at coalition against police brutality meetings nothing
else has been done outside of adams murder? roughly five years and a whole
police running whore houses scam later (let alone racist profiling).
samantha prince had been attending coalition meetings for a long while, and
every plan of action she suggested was co-opted by warren with long
discussion only about adams. and nothing has been done in five years. what a
champion of the working class.
i won't even mention that el curtis sabatoged our event to commemorate the
10 year mark of the police murder of shaun potts last summer by tearing down
our literature so as not to let word be spread around 1st baptist. hhmmm...
maybe you would like to explain why warren, "who has the right to practice
religion and is just a member of 1st baptist and is the most dedicated
working class activist in new brunswick", is an active member of the
republican party?
maybe you would like to explain why you yourself are an active member of the
republican party.
maybe you would like to explain how such "a single comment to the home news"
even came about to begin with? where does the commentS, "WE are not here to
tear down any political machine, WE are just here to try to do better" and
that "WE are (ready and) willing to work with the corporations in new
brunswick...", come from? do those commentS come from a dedicated working
class activist? where does that thought pattern come from, working class or
betrayal class? WE is not me.
why has njfo never criticized the commentS at all, like they are part of
your program also. those comments slander the peoples' campaign platform of
which i have never violated. and also i have never been able to petition the
general body about my expulsion led by xavier and enacted by the steering
committee.
curtis has never advocated soaries as a political leader you say. maybe, but
the problem is it that el curtis associates himself at all with developing
nazis. also the problem is that curtis has never spoken against sucker and
his right wing agenda and for someone that is that close to him, not to
condemn is only to embrace regardless if he stated it, that is the way the
WORLD works.
why does sucker hold hostage the over 1/2 million $$ already released by the
state to crossroads threatre? does that not attack black working class
culture, where is "working class activist curtis" to defend the threatre?
the ultimate error with you and your relationship with curtis is that rather
than organize the community, you latch on to someone that serves your
immediate purposes. problem is, you're being used. and that is what leads
and led to the rise of fascism. the so called communists/revolutionaries
surrendered their platforms to the right wing elements, and in turn dug the
graves for the masses of people. that is what you are doing know by not
even putting forward your position on the selection of bright, of which i
shouldn't even have to ask.
sword will unite with liberals, not republicans and those that aspire to
sell-out, you can have 'em. problem is, platform of community control has
lost.
joe
>From: "Keith Joseph" Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com To: 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com CC: njfo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [nbpc] 
>Portrait of a Meta-Physician Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 03:17:47 -0000
>
>SWORD has launched a sustained campign against community activist and 
>working-class leader Curtis Warren for the past 9 months. Their continous 
>attacks on Curtis bring meta-physical thinking to new heights of stupidity 
>and make unity impossible. The essence of Marxism is materialist 
>dialectics. The opposite of dialectics is meta-physics. Dialectics 
>ackowledges the world in its multi-sided complexity and continous change, 
>development and transformation. Meta-physics sees the world (and in the 
>case at hand individuals) as static, one-sided and eternally the same. 
>SWORD's position on Curtis is a case study of meta-physical thinking taken 
>to bizarre extremes. Curtis Warren is among the most dedicated 
>working-class activist in New Brunswick. He has proven himself and his 
>commitment to the people of New Brunswick over and over again. SWORD just 
>like the mayors ass Kevin Jones even attacked Curtis for maintaining the 
>memorial tree dedicated to the memory of Sissy Adams on Powers St. Not only 
>are their attacks an unwarranted insult to Curtis they are an insult to the 
>entire Adams family and the people of New Brunswick. The tree is a real 
>symbol of working class resistance. SWORD attacks Curtis over and over for 
>two things. First for a single comment he made to the Home News reporter 
>and secondly for being a member of First Baptist Church where Buster 
>Soaries is the Pastor. First, to ignore all of Curtis's practice and 
>statements and focus in a single statement obviously has nothing to do with 
>Marxism or dialectics, or even semi-intelligent bourgeois thought for that 
>matter. It is the meta-physical thinking that is taught in C.C.D. to young 
>Catholic boys and girls. A lifetime of service to god can be ruined by a 
>single unforgivable sin etc. etc. In "On the question of dialectics" Lenin 
>explains this type of thinking: "...Human knowledge is not (or does not 
>follow) a straight line, but a curve, which endlessly approximates a series 
>of circles, a spiral. Any fragment, segment, section of this curve can be 
>transformed into an independent, complete, straight line, which then (if 
>one does not see the forest for the trees) leads into the quagmire of 
>clerical obsurantism (where it is anchored by the class interests of the 
>ruling-classes)..." Is this not exactly what SWORD has done? They have 
>taken a single statement by Curtis and ignored all else. As Lenin sd above 
>a fragment of information taken in a straight line leading to a quagmire of 
>clerical obscurantism in ultra-left field where the SWORD is transformed 
>into EXCALIBUR and cleanses the movement of Infidels... The second issue 
>constantly being raised is that Curtis is a member of First Baptist Church. 
>Freedom of Religion is a democractic right that needs to be defended even 
>under socialism. Curtis has never advocated Pastor Soaries as a political 
>leader. His choice of religion and church are a private matter which has 
>nothing to do with political organizing. Finally, the joke of the new 
>millenium is the constant repitition of the slogan: "Unite, don't split" 
>and the references made to Weimar Germany. SWORD's attacks on Curtis are 
>exactly the type of thing that Baraka is warning against when he brings up 
>Weimar (The Weimar Republic was the German Government after WW1 and 
>pre-Hitler). The point is that the refusal of Communist and liberals to 
>unite is what allowed Hitler to step in. Despite their pleas for unity 
>SWORD is the grouping that prevents unity by attacking allies within the 
>united front as we stand before the enemy; just as the trots did in Spain 
>which allowed Franco to march on Madrid. Curtis is not our enemy to treat 
>him like an enemy is trotskyism it has nothing to do with revolution, 
>Marxism, or working class power. Take Care, Keith
>
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>FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1174
Sender:wacbush01@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-19 16:34:33
Subject:go RU women tip off 6:30!!!!
Message:








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1175
Sender:tamaradahan@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-19 22:15:15
Subject:campus meeting for march on trenton
Message:

college ave student center 2nd flr. lounge

thursday 7pm 22 march

larry hamm from POP & minister lennie mohammed from trenton nation of 
islam will provide detailed answers to all questions. meeting will work 
to organize campus forum - 4 april and to raise activity towards march 
on trenton. all are encouraged and needed to come and take on some 
tasks.


joe 586 5535








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1176
Sender:tamaradahan@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-19 22:22:07
Subject:Re: [nbpc] oh my
Message:

spoof you frank.

joe

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., FBRIGHT123@a... wrote:
> 
> 
> Kristina,
> 
> You should be clear that your posting was refering to a spoof. A few people 
> have suggested that it appears as if you sent it as a real news report when 
> it is from the NYT OP-ED.
> 
> Frank
> 
> 
> Kristina's text follows below:
> 
> just so you know..
> 
> Presidential Inaugural Committee (PIC) Executive Director
> Jeanne Johnson Phillips announced Wednesday that the theme
> for the 54th Presidential Inauguration is "The South Rises
> Again."
> 
> from, NY Times (1/17): MAUREEN DOWD: Yes, Yes! To Tara!








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1177
Sender:tamaradahan@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-19 23:36:35
Subject:Re: Reflection of a Portrait of a Meta-Physician
Message:

know what? and not to wake up mark...the more i think about it the less 
i can remember the coalition doing in the last 2 or so years. after 
fliering cop shot cop, which marshall & chinchilla have not been 
convicted for yet, i can't place anything. matt, why do you defend 
republicans and in replace attack and split with activists and 
revolutionaries? 

there have been people thrown out of peoples' campaign that haven't 
signed criticism letter of curtis/peoples' campaign. 

keith, where IN THE WORLD was activist el curtis during neal's 
campaign?

joe


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> Joe wrote:
> "there is an exact connection between the development of soaries with the 
> police murder of shaun potts and warren with the police murder of carolyn 
> adams. can you tell me where IN THE WORLD was warren before adams was 
> killed? can you further explain to me why at coalition against police 
> brutality meetings nothing else has been done outside of adams murder?"
> 
> 
> Joe's statement here really drags this dispute to a new level of absurdity 
> and does more to undermine the credibility of BOL/SWORD's callous, dogmatic, 
> devisive charges against Curtis than I thought was possible.  In order to 
> substantiate this hole that they've dug themselves into, Joe has now 
> resorted to discrediteding Curtis by way of discrediting the entire history 
> of the New Brunswick Coalition Against Police Brutality.  First off, to 
> question where Curtis was before Sissy Adams was murdered by the NBPD is 
> tantamount to betrayal of the role of an organizer, especially one who 
> considers himself a revolutionary...Isn't it part of our role to lead the 
> spontaneous upsurge caused by anticipated crisis (in this case, police 
> brutality & Adams murder) & to seek out the "advanced" from the people?  To 
> attack Curtis for stepping up to as a force in organizing his community, 
> building the Coalition and as a consistant support for the greeving Adams 
> family, is not only betrayal, but when this comes from a white, suburban 
> bred settler in a community of poor, opressed nationalities, it really comes 
> tinged with a subtle, but deep rooted chauvinism.
> 
> As for this incredible charge that the Coalition did nothing for years but 
> work on the Adams case (I guess this is to say that Curtis manipulated us 
> all that time to serve his own dasturdly ends as an
> "imperialist running dog" !!), here is a partial list of our campaigns:
> 
> * Organized protests in the wake of the Adams murder, forced killer cop 
> Consalvo off the force and out of town.  Upkept the Memorial Tree till this 
> date, a broadly recognized symbol of popular resistance.
> 
> * Organized for 3 years to "Free the NB Three"--Omar Auten & Co.; Ultimately 
> got charges dropped, and used the opportunity to bring wide public exposure 
> to terrorist Sgt "Craterface" Millroy.
> 
> * Organized wide public exposure of NBPD/Somerset PD/County Sheriff Office 
> break-ins & attacks on residences in Rutgers Village
> 
> * Organized wide public exposure of HUD sanctioned NBPD break-ins at NB 
> Homes.
> 
> * Organized wide public exposure of Marshal/Chincilla shooting & retirement 
> scheme, bringing first broad public scrutiny of prostitution houses through 
> prees conferences, flyering etc. (contrary to Joe's strange assertions that 
> we did nothing & BOL/SWORD's self-aggrandazing that they single-handedly 
> brought convictions against Marshall & Chincilla.)
> 
> * Organized "Know Your Rights" public education campaigns throughout the NB 
> neighborhoods for several years.
> 
> * Organized still incomplete "Right to Know" lawsuit to gain access to 
> internal police files
> 
> * Organized campaigns to promote the cause for community control over the 
> police, and community police review control board locally, & statewide.
> 
> * Organized against Racist Profiling statewide in the wake of the 
> Hogan/Kenna turnpike shootings.
> 
> * etc, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but the point is that the work of the NBCAPB is a critical 
> legacy of popular resistance, building unity & encouraging struggle in NB.  
> Some of the closest allies the the Peoples' Campaign had in the community 
> were a result of the years of work by the Coalition and people like Curtis.  
> To attack this legacy in order to prop up BOL/SWORD's dogmatic, puritanical 
> crusade against Curtis is opportunistic at best, and worse, it threatens 
> more still to create divisions where they need not be and totally betrays 
> their own demands to "Unite, Don't Split".
> 
> 
> Finally, this: Joe wrote: "samantha prince had been attending coalition 
> meetings for a long while, and every plan of action she suggested was 
> co-opted by warren with long discussion only about adams."
> 
> Now, in my years with the Coalition, I witnessed Curtis & Samantha in a 
> great, productive, & mutually respectful working relationship.  I can't 
> speak for her, but what I saw was that she actually distanced herself from 
> BOL during the City Council Race because she was embarassed by their attacks 
> on Curtis, attacks that have continued in the most unprincipled manor, in 
> the name of revolutionary principles, and in the most divisive way, in the 
> name of Unity.  Same shit.
> 
> Hey, Joe- Take it easy...take a breath...this ain't happening...you're 
> causing far more people to keep to keep their distance than would otherwise 
> want to work with you.  Why dig the hole deeper?  BOL/SWORD has had some 
> very valid criticisms of the PC & NJFO that could & should be discussed, but 
> that is getting obscured in this, & it severely undermines your credibility 
> & as Curtis said, while you attack him "your real enemy is closing in on 
> you."
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "joseph smith"
> Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> Subject: Re: [nbpc] Portrait of a Meta-Physician
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:50:27 -0500
> keith in 1st paragraph, "SWORD makes unity impossible", and in last
> sentence, "to treat him like the enemy is trotskyism", when was it enacted
> by the reds that unity with trotsky was immpossible?
> you cannot put it on SWORD that we organize splits, because as much as you
> wanna scream that we attacked curtis and we're so stupid, SWORD has never
> moved to expel warren, or anyone else from peoples' campaign. and check you
> out attempting to drive a wedge between sword and the adams family, explain
> that one.
> i'm having a hard time understanding that your message is attemping to
> define that SWORD cannot be worked with on any basis because of our exposure
> of el curtis. why don't you take your arguement to the people and see that
> everybody on the street that knows soaries will tell you that he is a
> sell-out! not a religous leader... furthermore, curtis is not just a member
> of 1st baptist, he is employed by soaries and, simply put, an aspiring
> protege of soaries.
> let us discuss the world we live in, as you suggest. there is an exact
> connection between the development of soaries with the police murder of
> shaun potts and warren with the police murder of carolyn adams. can you tell
> me where IN THE WORLD was warren before adams was killed? can you further
> explain to me why at coalition against police brutality meetings nothing
> else has been done outside of adams murder? roughly five years and a whole
> police running whore houses scam later (let alone racist profiling).
> samantha prince had been attending coalition meetings for a long while, and
> every plan of action she suggested was co-opted by warren with long
> discussion only about adams. and nothing has been done in five years. what a
> champion of the working class.
> i won't even mention that el curtis sabatoged our event to commemorate the
> 10 year mark of the police murder of shaun potts last summer by tearing down
> our literature so as not to let word be spread around 1st baptist. hhmmm...
> maybe you would like to explain why warren, "who has the right to practice
> religion and is just a member of 1st baptist and is the most dedicated
> working class activist in new brunswick", is an active member of the
> republican party?
> maybe you would like to explain why you yourself are an active member of the
> republican party.
> maybe you would like to explain how such "a single comment to the home news"
> even came about to begin with? where does the commentS, "WE are not here to
> tear down any political machine, WE are just here to try to do better" and
> that "WE are (ready and) willing to work with the corporations in new
> brunswick...", come from? do those commentS come from a dedicated working
> class activist? where does that thought pattern come from, working class or
> betrayal class? WE is not me.
> why has njfo never criticized the commentS at all, like they are part of
> your program also. those comments slander the peoples' campaign platform of
> which i have never violated. and also i have never been able to petition the
> general body about my expulsion led by xavier and enacted by the steering
> committee.
> curtis has never advocated soaries as a political leader you say. maybe, but
> the problem is it that el curtis associates himself at all with developing
> nazis. also the problem is that curtis has never spoken against sucker and
> his right wing agenda and for someone that is that close to him, not to
> condemn is only to embrace regardless if he stated it, that is the way the
> WORLD works.
> why does sucker hold hostage the over 1/2 million $$ already released by the
> state to crossroads threatre? does that not attack black working class
> culture, where is "working class activist curtis" to defend the threatre?
> the ultimate error with you and your relationship with curtis is that rather
> than organize the community, you latch on to someone that serves your
> immediate purposes. problem is, you're being used. and that is what leads
> and led to the rise of fascism. the so called communists/revolutionaries
> surrendered their platforms to the right wing elements, and in turn dug the
> graves for the masses of people. that is what you are doing know by not
> even putting forward your position on the selection of bright, of which i
> shouldn't even have to ask.
> sword will unite with liberals, not republicans and those that aspire to
> sell-out, you can have 'em. problem is, platform of community control has
> lost.
> joe
> >From: "Keith Joseph" Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y... To: 
> >nbpeoplescampaign@y... CC: njfo@y... Subject: [nbpc] 
> >Portrait of a Meta-Physician Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 03:17:47 -0000
> >
> >SWORD has launched a sustained campign against community activist and 
> >working-class leader Curtis Warren for the past 9 months. Their continous 
> >attacks on Curtis bring meta-physical thinking to new heights of stupidity 
> >and make unity impossible. The essence of Marxism is materialist 
> >dialectics. The opposite of dialectics is meta-physics. Dialectics 
> >ackowledges the world in its multi-sided complexity and continous change, 
> >development and transformation. Meta-physics sees the world (and in the 
> >case at hand individuals) as static, one-sided and eternally the same. 
> >SWORD's position on Curtis is a case study of meta-physical thinking taken 
> >to bizarre extremes. Curtis Warren is among the most dedicated 
> >working-class activist in New Brunswick. He has proven himself and his 
> >commitment to the people of New Brunswick over and over again. SWORD just 
> >like the mayors ass Kevin Jones even attacked Curtis for maintaining the 
> >memorial tree dedicated to the memory of Sissy Adams on Powers St. Not only 
> >are their attacks an unwarranted insult to Curtis they are an insult to the 
> >entire Adams family and the people of New Brunswick. The tree is a real 
> >symbol of working class resistance. SWORD attacks Curtis over and over for 
> >two things. First for a single comment he made to the Home News reporter 
> >and secondly for being a member of First Baptist Church where Buster 
> >Soaries is the Pastor. First, to ignore all of Curtis's practice and 
> >statements and focus in a single statement obviously has nothing to do with 
> >Marxism or dialectics, or even semi-intelligent bourgeois thought for that 
> >matter. It is the meta-physical thinking that is taught in C.C.D. to young 
> >Catholic boys and girls. A lifetime of service to god can be ruined by a 
> >single unforgivable sin etc. etc. In "On the question of dialectics" Lenin 
> >explains this type of thinking: "...Human knowledge is not (or does not 
> >follow) a straight line, but a curve, which endlessly approximates a series 
> >of circles, a spiral. Any fragment, segment, section of this curve can be 
> >transformed into an independent, complete, straight line, which then (if 
> >one does not see the forest for the trees) leads into the quagmire of 
> >clerical obsurantism (where it is anchored by the class interests of the 
> >ruling-classes)..." Is this not exactly what SWORD has done? They have 
> >taken a single statement by Curtis and ignored all else. As Lenin sd above 
> >a fragment of information taken in a straight line leading to a quagmire of 
> >clerical obscurantism in ultra-left field where the SWORD is transformed 
> >into EXCALIBUR and cleanses the movement of Infidels... The second issue 
> >constantly being raised is that Curtis is a member of First Baptist Church. 
> >Freedom of Religion is a democractic right that needs to be defended even 
> >under socialism. Curtis has never advocated Pastor Soaries as a political 
> >leader. His choice of religion and church are a private matter which has 
> >nothing to do with political organizing. Finally, the joke of the new 
> >millenium is the constant repitition of the slogan: "Unite, don't split" 
> >and the references made to Weimar Germany. SWORD's attacks on Curtis are 
> >exactly the type of thing that Baraka is warning against when he brings up 
> >Weimar (The Weimar Republic was the German Government after WW1 and 
> >pre-Hitler). The point is that the refusal of Communist and liberals to 
> >unite is what allowed Hitler to step in. Despite their pleas for unity 
> >SWORD is the grouping that prevents unity by attacking allies within the 
> >united front as we stand before the enemy; just as the trots did in Spain 
> >which allowed Franco to march on Madrid. Curtis is not our enemy to treat 
> >him like an enemy is trotskyism it has nothing to do with revolution, 
> >Marxism, or working class power. Take Care, Keith
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________ Get your 
> >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> To Post a message, send it to: nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
> nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
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> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1178
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-20 12:42:06
Subject:STATE LAW ON APPOINTMENT OF HOUSING AUTHORITY COMMISSIONERS
Message:

For everyone's information....


40A:12A-17. Housing authority; creation; members; terms of office; 
appointments; disclosure requirements; removal


 a. Except as provided in subsection b. of this section, the 
governing body of any county or municipality may, by ordinance, or by 
resolution in the case of a county whose charter does not provide for 
the adoption of ordinances, create a body corporate and politic to be 
known as the "Housing Authority of ...," inserting the name of the 
county or municipality. The authority shall constitute an agency and 
instrumentality of the municipality or county creating it. A housing 
authority shall be created pursuant to the procedures of the "Local 
Authorities Fiscal Control Law," P.L.1983, c. 313 (C. 40A:5A-1 et 
seq.). The authority shall consist of seven members. In a county that 
operates under the "county executive plan" set forth in the "Optional 
County Charter Law," P.L.1972, c. 154 (C. 40:41A-1 et seq.), six 
members shall be appointed by the county executive with the advice 
and consent of the board of chosen freeholders, and one member shall 
be appointed by the Commissioner of Community Affairs. In all other 
counties and municipalities, five members shall be appointed by the 
governing body of the county or municipality, as the case may be, one 
by the mayor or other chief executive officer of the municipality, or 
in the case of a county by the director of the board of chosen 
freeholders or by the chief executive officer of the county if the 
county's charter provides for such an officer, and one by the 
Commissioner of Community Affairs. The members shall serve for terms 
of five years and until their respective successors have been 
appointed and qualified; except that of the five members first 
appointed by the governing body one shall be appointed for a term of 
one year, one for a term of two years, one for a term of three years, 
one for a term of four years and one for a term of five years. All 
appointments shall be subject to and made in the manner required by 
the law under which the county or municipality is governed. Vacancies 
shall be filled in the same manner as the original appointments were 
made, but for the unexpired term. If a vacancy is not filled by the 
county executive, governing body or chief executive officer within 90 
days of the occurrence of the vacancy, the Commissioner of the 
Department of Community Affairs shall notify the county executive, 
governing body or chief executive officer of his intent to fill the 
vacancy if it is not filled in 30 days. If the vacancy is not filled 
within that 30 day period, the commissioner may appoint a member for 
the unexpired term.
 In any county or municipality which has heretofore created a housing 
authority pursuant to R.S. 55:14A-4, the members of the authority who 
were appointed by the governing body and the chief executive officer 
of the county or municipality and who are in office upon the 
effective date of this act shall continue in office until the 
expiration of the terms for which they are appointed and qualified in 
accordance with the terms of this act.
 b. No municipality which has been included with its consent within 
the area of operation of a county housing authority shall thereafter 
create a municipal housing authority. Where there is no housing 
authority in existence in any municipality of a county, the governing 
body of that county may create a housing authority, and thereafter no 
municipality within that county shall create an authority without the 
consent of the county governing body and the county housing authority.
 c. A county may provide such publicly assisted housing programs as 
it chooses anywhere within the county; but it may provide such 
programs in municipalities which are within the area of operation of 
a county or municipal housing authority only after adoption of a 
resolution of the housing authority consenting thereto.
 d. No more than one member of a housing authority may be an officer 
or employee of the municipality or county by which the authority is 
created. A certificate of the appointment or reappointment of any 
member shall be filed with the clerk of the municipality or the 
county, as the case may be, and that certificate shall be conclusive 
evidence of the due and proper appointment of that member. A member 
of an authority shall receive no compensation for his services, but 
shall be entitled to reimbursement for actual expenses necessarily 
incurred in the discharge of the duties of membership, including 
travel expenses. The powers of the authority shall be vested in the 
members thereof in office from time to time. Four members shall 
constitute a quorum of the authority for the purpose of conducting 
its business and exercising its powers and all other purposes. Action 
may be taken by the authority upon the affirmative vote of the 
majority, but not less than four of the members present, unless in 
any case the bylaws of the authority shall require a larger number. 
The authority shall select a chairman and a vice-chairman from among 
its members, and shall employ an executive director, who shall be its 
secretary.

e. No member or employee of an authority shall acquire any interest, 
direct or indirect, in any housing project or in any property 
included or planned to be included in such a project, nor shall he 
have any interest, direct or indirect, in any contract or proposed 
contract for materials and services to be furnished or used in 
connection with any housing project. If any member or employee of an 
authority owns or controls an interest, direct or indirect, in any 
property included or planned to be included in a housing project he 
shall immediately disclose the same in writing to the authority and 
the disclosure shall be entered upon the minutes of the authority. 
Failure to disclose such an interest shall constitute misconduct in 
office. A member or employee required by this subsection to make such 
a disclosure shall not participate in any action by the authority 
affecting the property with respect to which such disclosure is 
required. For inefficiency or neglect of duty or misconduct in office 
a member of an authority may be removed by the governing body or 
officer by which he was appointed; but a member may be removed only 
after he has been given a copy of the charges at least 10 days prior 
to a hearing thereon and has had the opportunity to be heard in 
person or by counsel. In the event of a removal of any member of an 
authority a record of the proceedings, together with the charges and 
findings thereon, shall be filed in the office of the clerk of the 
county or municipality.

Amended by L.1993, c. 344,  1, eff. Dec. 27, 1993.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1179
Sender:"joseph smith" <wacbush01@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-20 14:53:27
Subject:Re: [nbpc] STATE LAW ON APPOINTMENT OF HOUSING AUTHORITY COMMISSIONERS
Message:

hey bright, how can you claim to represent the people when you thief their 
position?

curtis, how can you support a thief - which again you violate peoples' 
campaign platform?

do members of the peoples' campaign/new brunswick have a position on the 
selection of bright which is in violation of federal law?

community control over housing! republicans in the garbage can!

joe


>For everyone's information....
>
>
>40A:12A-17. Housing authority; creation; members; terms of office;
>appointments; disclosure requirements; removal
>
>
>  a. Except as provided in subsection b. of this section, the
>governing body of any county or municipality may, by ordinance, or by
>resolution in the case of a county whose charter does not provide for
>the adoption of ordinances, create a body corporate and politic to be
>known as the "Housing Authority of ...," inserting the name of the
>county or municipality. The authority shall constitute an agency and
>instrumentality of the municipality or county creating it. A housing
>authority shall be created pursuant to the procedures of the "Local
>Authorities Fiscal Control Law," P.L.1983, c. 313 (C. 40A:5A-1 et
>seq.). The authority shall consist of seven members. In a county that
>operates under the "county executive plan" set forth in the "Optional
>County Charter Law," P.L.1972, c. 154 (C. 40:41A-1 et seq.), six
>members shall be appointed by the county executive with the advice
>and consent of the board of chosen freeholders, and one member shall
>be appointed by the Commissioner of Community Affairs. In all other
>counties and municipalities, five members shall be appointed by the
>governing body of the county or municipality, as the case may be, one
>by the mayor or other chief executive officer of the municipality, or
>in the case of a county by the director of the board of chosen
>freeholders or by the chief executive officer of the county if the
>county's charter provides for such an officer, and one by the
>Commissioner of Community Affairs. The members shall serve for terms
>of five years and until their respective successors have been
>appointed and qualified; except that of the five members first
>appointed by the governing body one shall be appointed for a term of
>one year, one for a term of two years, one for a term of three years,
>one for a term of four years and one for a term of five years. All
>appointments shall be subject to and made in the manner required by
>the law under which the county or municipality is governed. Vacancies
>shall be filled in the same manner as the original appointments were
>made, but for the unexpired term. If a vacancy is not filled by the
>county executive, governing body or chief executive officer within 90
>days of the occurrence of the vacancy, the Commissioner of the
>Department of Community Affairs shall notify the county executive,
>governing body or chief executive officer of his intent to fill the
>vacancy if it is not filled in 30 days. If the vacancy is not filled
>within that 30 day period, the commissioner may appoint a member for
>the unexpired term.
>  In any county or municipality which has heretofore created a housing
>authority pursuant to R.S. 55:14A-4, the members of the authority who
>were appointed by the governing body and the chief executive officer
>of the county or municipality and who are in office upon the
>effective date of this act shall continue in office until the
>expiration of the terms for which they are appointed and qualified in
>accordance with the terms of this act.
>  b. No municipality which has been included with its consent within
>the area of operation of a county housing authority shall thereafter
>create a municipal housing authority. Where there is no housing
>authority in existence in any municipality of a county, the governing
>body of that county may create a housing authority, and thereafter no
>municipality within that county shall create an authority without the
>consent of the county governing body and the county housing authority.
>  c. A county may provide such publicly assisted housing programs as
>it chooses anywhere within the county; but it may provide such
>programs in municipalities which are within the area of operation of
>a county or municipal housing authority only after adoption of a
>resolution of the housing authority consenting thereto.
>  d. No more than one member of a housing authority may be an officer
>or employee of the municipality or county by which the authority is
>created. A certificate of the appointment or reappointment of any
>member shall be filed with the clerk of the municipality or the
>county, as the case may be, and that certificate shall be conclusive
>evidence of the due and proper appointment of that member. A member
>of an authority shall receive no compensation for his services, but
>shall be entitled to reimbursement for actual expenses necessarily
>incurred in the discharge of the duties of membership, including
>travel expenses. The powers of the authority shall be vested in the
>members thereof in office from time to time. Four members shall
>constitute a quorum of the authority for the purpose of conducting
>its business and exercising its powers and all other purposes. Action
>may be taken by the authority upon the affirmative vote of the
>majority, but not less than four of the members present, unless in
>any case the bylaws of the authority shall require a larger number.
>The authority shall select a chairman and a vice-chairman from among
>its members, and shall employ an executive director, who shall be its
>secretary.
>
>e. No member or employee of an authority shall acquire any interest,
>direct or indirect, in any housing project or in any property
>included or planned to be included in such a project, nor shall he
>have any interest, direct or indirect, in any contract or proposed
>contract for materials and services to be furnished or used in
>connection with any housing project. If any member or employee of an
>authority owns or controls an interest, direct or indirect, in any
>property included or planned to be included in a housing project he
>shall immediately disclose the same in writing to the authority and
>the disclosure shall be entered upon the minutes of the authority.
>Failure to disclose such an interest shall constitute misconduct in
>office. A member or employee required by this subsection to make such
>a disclosure shall not participate in any action by the authority
>affecting the property with respect to which such disclosure is
>required. For inefficiency or neglect of duty or misconduct in office
>a member of an authority may be removed by the governing body or
>officer by which he was appointed; but a member may be removed only
>after he has been given a copy of the charges at least 10 days prior
>to a hearing thereon and has had the opportunity to be heard in
>person or by counsel. In the event of a removal of any member of an
>authority a record of the proceedings, together with the charges and
>findings thereon, shall be filed in the office of the clerk of the
>county or municipality.
>
>Amended by L.1993, c. 344, � 1, eff. Dec. 27, 1993.
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1180
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-20 15:08:56
Subject:meet with george berry: elected resident to housing...
Message:

meeting to organize election of public housing resident to housing 
authority.

saturday afternoon in projects. more details coming.

all pressure must be put on city council tomorrow 7:00 pm city hall.
we must demand that they comply with election and hold them responsible for 
their part on the selection of bright.

contact joe smith 586.5535 can_bush@...
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1181
Sender:"Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-20 20:05:45
Subject:RE: [nbpc] STATE LAW ON APPOINTMENT OF HOUSING AUTHORITY COMMISSIONERS
Message:

Please segment out the area that you feel Frank Bright is in violation of.
I read it through twice and could not find the part where it says "They must
be a resident of public housing to be on the board"?

Just for mention-sake, the latest "effective" date on the email is 1993,
nothing specifically regarding anything in 1999, let alone a new regulation.


Erric Z.



 -----Original Message-----
From: Groovemeister007@... [mailto:Groovemeister007@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 12:42 PM
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] STATE LAW ON APPOINTMENT OF HOUSING AUTHORITY COMMISSIONERS


  For everyone's information....


  40A:12A-17. Housing authority; creation; members; terms of office;
  appointments; disclosure requirements; removal


  a. Except as provided in subsection b. of this section, the
  governing body of any county or municipality may, by ordinance, or by
  resolution in the case of a county whose charter does not provide for
  the adoption of ordinances, create a body corporate and politic to be
  known as the "Housing Authority of ...," inserting the name of the
  county or municipality. The authority shall constitute an agency and
  instrumentality of the municipality or county creating it. A housing
  authority shall be created pursuant to the procedures of the "Local
  Authorities Fiscal Control Law," P.L.1983, c. 313 (C. 40A:5A-1 et
  seq.). The authority shall consist of seven members. In a county that
  operates under the "county executive plan" set forth in the "Optional
  County Charter Law," P.L.1972, c. 154 (C. 40:41A-1 et seq.), six
  members shall be appointed by the county executive with the advice
  and consent of the board of chosen freeholders, and one member shall
  be appointed by the Commissioner of Community Affairs. In all other
  counties and municipalities, five members shall be appointed by the
  governing body of the county or municipality, as the case may be, one
  by the mayor or other chief executive officer of the municipality, or
  in the case of a county by the director of the board of chosen
  freeholders or by the chief executive officer of the county if the
  county's charter provides for such an officer, and one by the
  Commissioner of Community Affairs. The members shall serve for terms
  of five years and until their respective successors have been
  appointed and qualified; except that of the five members first
  appointed by the governing body one shall be appointed for a term of
  one year, one for a term of two years, one for a term of three years,
  one for a term of four years and one for a term of five years. All
  appointments shall be subject to and made in the manner required by
  the law under which the county or municipality is governed. Vacancies
  shall be filled in the same manner as the original appointments were
  made, but for the unexpired term. If a vacancy is not filled by the
  county executive, governing body or chief executive officer within 90
  days of the occurrence of the vacancy, the Commissioner of the
  Department of Community Affairs shall notify the county executive,
  governing body or chief executive officer of his intent to fill the
  vacancy if it is not filled in 30 days. If the vacancy is not filled
  within that 30 day period, the commissioner may appoint a member for
  the unexpired term.
  In any county or municipality which has heretofore created a housing
  authority pursuant to R.S. 55:14A-4, the members of the authority who
  were appointed by the governing body and the chief executive officer
  of the county or municipality and who are in office upon the
  effective date of this act shall continue in office until the
  expiration of the terms for which they are appointed and qualified in
  accordance with the terms of this act.
  b. No municipality which has been included with its consent within
  the area of operation of a county housing authority shall thereafter
  create a municipal housing authority. Where there is no housing
  authority in existence in any municipality of a county, the governing
  body of that county may create a housing authority, and thereafter no
  municipality within that county shall create an authority without the
  consent of the county governing body and the county housing authority.
  c. A county may provide such publicly assisted housing programs as
  it chooses anywhere within the county; but it may provide such
  programs in municipalities which are within the area of operation of
  a county or municipal housing authority only after adoption of a
  resolution of the housing authority consenting thereto.
  d. No more than one member of a housing authority may be an officer
  or employee of the municipality or county by which the authority is
  created. A certificate of the appointment or reappointment of any
  member shall be filed with the clerk of the municipality or the
  county, as the case may be, and that certificate shall be conclusive
  evidence of the due and proper appointment of that member. A member
  of an authority shall receive no compensation for his services, but
  shall be entitled to reimbursement for actual expenses necessarily
  incurred in the discharge of the duties of membership, including
  travel expenses. The powers of the authority shall be vested in the
  members thereof in office from time to time. Four members shall
  constitute a quorum of the authority for the purpose of conducting
  its business and exercising its powers and all other purposes. Action
  may be taken by the authority upon the affirmative vote of the
  majority, but not less than four of the members present, unless in
  any case the bylaws of the authority shall require a larger number.
  The authority shall select a chairman and a vice-chairman from among
  its members, and shall employ an executive director, who shall be its
  secretary.

  e. No member or employee of an authority shall acquire any interest,
  direct or indirect, in any housing project or in any property
  included or planned to be included in such a project, nor shall he
  have any interest, direct or indirect, in any contract or proposed
  contract for materials and services to be furnished or used in
  connection with any housing project. If any member or employee of an
  authority owns or controls an interest, direct or indirect, in any
  property included or planned to be included in a housing project he
  shall immediately disclose the same in writing to the authority and
  the disclosure shall be entered upon the minutes of the authority.
  Failure to disclose such an interest shall constitute misconduct in
  office. A member or employee required by this subsection to make such
  a disclosure shall not participate in any action by the authority
  affecting the property with respect to which such disclosure is
  required. For inefficiency or neglect of duty or misconduct in office
  a member of an authority may be removed by the governing body or
  officer by which he was appointed; but a member may be removed only
  after he has been given a copy of the charges at least 10 days prior
  to a hearing thereon and has had the opportunity to be heard in
  person or by counsel. In the event of a removal of any member of an
  authority a record of the proceedings, together with the charges and
  findings thereon, shall be filed in the office of the clerk of the
  county or municipality.

  Amended by L.1993, c. 344,  1, eff. Dec. 27, 1993.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1182
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-20 21:04:22
Subject:nb community center task force
Message:


                                           135 Throop Avenue, New Brunswick, 
NJ 08901

                                           E-Mail: NB_CC_TF_@yahoogroups.com

                                                      Tel. (732) 745-2602

                                                        March 15, 2001

The New Brunswick Community Center Task Force was formed with the vision of 
creating a world class
community center with Olympic size swimming pools open to all residents of 
the City of New
Brunswick. We believe this community center will complement the impressive 
development in the
downtown area and make our city not just a nice place to work in, but also a 
very nice place to
live in.

Our mission will be to reach out to other community organizations and with 
their assistance empower
the community to make this dream a reality.

As a precursor to the Community Center we will explore the concept of a 
"Community Center Without
Walls" as envisioned by Morris Kafka, President of the Second Ward 
Neighborhood Block Club.

This "Center Without Walls" can bring together the local organizations that 
are offering various
opportunities, such as: computer and literacy skills, gardening, mural 
painting, etc. It could also
help scheduling, provide publicity and networking between the various groups 
and our residents.

We hope to create and circulate a monthly master calendar with all the 
upcoming events and
organizational information. We also hope to maintain a web site with this 
information. This will be
done in cooperation with existing publications and web sites

To demonstrate tangible community support and raise seed money for the 
Community Center Project, we
will proceed as follows:

  a.Ask the residents who live on Commercial Avenue to sign a petition 
requesting that the City
     Council change the name of Commercial Avenue to Paul Robeson Avenue and 
reserve a space on each
     corner of the avenue for a plaque.
  b.We intend to dedicate plaques on Paul Robeson Avenue to honor the memory 
of prominent deceased
     members of this community.
  c.As of this date we have received the following names of prominent 
deceased members of the
     community: Ivory Braswell, Dr. Eric Chandler, Rev. Joe Clark, James 
Cook, Sr., Fr. Crupi,
     Richard Garell, James P. Johnson, Earline Jones, Rev. James Kirk, Dr. 
Lewis, Cumi Manderville,
     Robert Mitchell, Willie Ratliff, Goldie Thomas, Brian Van Liew, Esther 
Washington, and Rev.
     Marcus Williams. Other names are welcome.
  d.Before dedicating a plaque in honor of a deceased member of the 
community, we intend to ask for
     an as yet undecided number of signatures and a donation of at least 
$5.00 with each signature.
     These donations will be deposited in a Community Center Development 
Fund.
  e.Through this project, we hope to raise a minimum of $40,000.00 for the 
Community Center
     Development Fund and demonstrate, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that 
the community supports the
     vision of a world class Community Center with Olympic size swimming 
pools in New Brunswick.

We also need letters of support from community organizations. Please ensure 
that the organizations
to which you belong send us letters of support.

Our next meeting will be on March 27th, meetings start at 6:30 P.M. on the 
last Tuesday in each
month at 116 Livingston Avenue, between Suydam St. and Townsend St. Please 
attend and bring someone
with you.

Joseph Mosley.

For the Community Center Task Force


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1183
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-20 21:16:56
Subject:RE: [nbpc] STATE LAW ON APPOINTMENT OF HOUSING AUTHORITY COMMISSIONERS
Message:

This statute contains the requirement for board membership by a
resident.

42 U.S.C. � 1437

(b) Public housing agency organization

  (1) Required membership

Except as provided in paragraph (2), the membership of the board of
directors or similar governing body of each public housing agency
shall contain not less than 1 member--

(A) who is directly assisted by the public housing agency; and

(B) who may, if provided for in the public housing agency plan, be
elected by the residents directly assisted by the public housing
agency.


>From: "Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [nbpc] STATE LAW ON APPOINTMENT OF HOUSING AUTHORITY 
>COMMISSIONERS
>Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:05:45 -0500
>
>Please segment out the area that you feel Frank Bright is in violation of.
>I read it through twice and could not find the part where it says "They 
>must
>be a resident of public housing to be on the board"?
>
>Just for mention-sake, the latest "effective" date on the email is 1993,
>nothing specifically regarding anything in 1999, let alone a new 
>regulation.
>
>
>Erric Z.
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>From: Groovemeister007@... [mailto:Groovemeister007@...]
>Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 12:42 PM
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] STATE LAW ON APPOINTMENT OF HOUSING AUTHORITY COMMISSIONERS
>
>
>   For everyone's information....
>
>
>   40A:12A-17. Housing authority; creation; members; terms of office;
>   appointments; disclosure requirements; removal
>
>
>   a. Except as provided in subsection b. of this section, the
>   governing body of any county or municipality may, by ordinance, or by
>   resolution in the case of a county whose charter does not provide for
>   the adoption of ordinances, create a body corporate and politic to be
>   known as the "Housing Authority of ...," inserting the name of the
>   county or municipality. The authority shall constitute an agency and
>   instrumentality of the municipality or county creating it. A housing
>   authority shall be created pursuant to the procedures of the "Local
>   Authorities Fiscal Control Law," P.L.1983, c. 313 (C. 40A:5A-1 et
>   seq.). The authority shall consist of seven members. In a county that
>   operates under the "county executive plan" set forth in the "Optional
>   County Charter Law," P.L.1972, c. 154 (C. 40:41A-1 et seq.), six
>   members shall be appointed by the county executive with the advice
>   and consent of the board of chosen freeholders, and one member shall
>   be appointed by the Commissioner of Community Affairs. In all other
>   counties and municipalities, five members shall be appointed by the
>   governing body of the county or municipality, as the case may be, one
>   by the mayor or other chief executive officer of the municipality, or
>   in the case of a county by the director of the board of chosen
>   freeholders or by the chief executive officer of the county if the
>   county's charter provides for such an officer, and one by the
>   Commissioner of Community Affairs. The members shall serve for terms
>   of five years and until their respective successors have been
>   appointed and qualified; except that of the five members first
>   appointed by the governing body one shall be appointed for a term of
>   one year, one for a term of two years, one for a term of three years,
>   one for a term of four years and one for a term of five years. All
>   appointments shall be subject to and made in the manner required by
>   the law under which the county or municipality is governed. Vacancies
>   shall be filled in the same manner as the original appointments were
>   made, but for the unexpired term. If a vacancy is not filled by the
>   county executive, governing body or chief executive officer within 90
>   days of the occurrence of the vacancy, the Commissioner of the
>   Department of Community Affairs shall notify the county executive,
>   governing body or chief executive officer of his intent to fill the
>   vacancy if it is not filled in 30 days. If the vacancy is not filled
>   within that 30 day period, the commissioner may appoint a member for
>   the unexpired term.
>   In any county or municipality which has heretofore created a housing
>   authority pursuant to R.S. 55:14A-4, the members of the authority who
>   were appointed by the governing body and the chief executive officer
>   of the county or municipality and who are in office upon the
>   effective date of this act shall continue in office until the
>   expiration of the terms for which they are appointed and qualified in
>   accordance with the terms of this act.
>   b. No municipality which has been included with its consent within
>   the area of operation of a county housing authority shall thereafter
>   create a municipal housing authority. Where there is no housing
>   authority in existence in any municipality of a county, the governing
>   body of that county may create a housing authority, and thereafter no
>   municipality within that county shall create an authority without the
>   consent of the county governing body and the county housing authority.
>   c. A county may provide such publicly assisted housing programs as
>   it chooses anywhere within the county; but it may provide such
>   programs in municipalities which are within the area of operation of
>   a county or municipal housing authority only after adoption of a
>   resolution of the housing authority consenting thereto.
>   d. No more than one member of a housing authority may be an officer
>   or employee of the municipality or county by which the authority is
>   created. A certificate of the appointment or reappointment of any
>   member shall be filed with the clerk of the municipality or the
>   county, as the case may be, and that certificate shall be conclusive
>   evidence of the due and proper appointment of that member. A member
>   of an authority shall receive no compensation for his services, but
>   shall be entitled to reimbursement for actual expenses necessarily
>   incurred in the discharge of the duties of membership, including
>   travel expenses. The powers of the authority shall be vested in the
>   members thereof in office from time to time. Four members shall
>   constitute a quorum of the authority for the purpose of conducting
>   its business and exercising its powers and all other purposes. Action
>   may be taken by the authority upon the affirmative vote of the
>   majority, but not less than four of the members present, unless in
>   any case the bylaws of the authority shall require a larger number.
>   The authority shall select a chairman and a vice-chairman from among
>   its members, and shall employ an executive director, who shall be its
>   secretary.
>
>   e. No member or employee of an authority shall acquire any interest,
>   direct or indirect, in any housing project or in any property
>   included or planned to be included in such a project, nor shall he
>   have any interest, direct or indirect, in any contract or proposed
>   contract for materials and services to be furnished or used in
>   connection with any housing project. If any member or employee of an
>   authority owns or controls an interest, direct or indirect, in any
>   property included or planned to be included in a housing project he
>   shall immediately disclose the same in writing to the authority and
>   the disclosure shall be entered upon the minutes of the authority.
>   Failure to disclose such an interest shall constitute misconduct in
>   office. A member or employee required by this subsection to make such
>   a disclosure shall not participate in any action by the authority
>   affecting the property with respect to which such disclosure is
>   required. For inefficiency or neglect of duty or misconduct in office
>   a member of an authority may be removed by the governing body or
>   officer by which he was appointed; but a member may be removed only
>   after he has been given a copy of the charges at least 10 days prior
>   to a hearing thereon and has had the opportunity to be heard in
>   person or by counsel. In the event of a removal of any member of an
>   authority a record of the proceedings, together with the charges and
>   findings thereon, shall be filed in the office of the clerk of the
>   county or municipality.
>
>   Amended by L.1993, c. 344, � 1, eff. Dec. 27, 1993.
>
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
>   To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1184
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-20 21:46:22
Subject:Re: [nbpc] STATE LAW ON APPOINTMENT OF HOUSING AUTHORITY COMMISSIONERS
Message:

Erric:

There must be a person "directly assisted" by the housing authority 
on its board, pursuant to 42 U.S.C. 1437(b)(1).  That federal 
requirement took effect in October 1998.  Note that such 
resident "may" but is not required to be elected by the residents.  
The elected-or-not question, by virtue of the same statute, must be 
addressed in the public housing agency plan for New Brunswick.  
However, I do not know what that plan says and it ought to be 
consulted.

You are correct in pointing out that the state law on the subject, 
N.J.S.A. 40A:12A-17 does not contain a requirement that a 
person "directly assisted" by the housing authority serve on its 
board.  That law was last amended in 1993.

However, since federal law trumps state law pursuant to article VI of 
the U.S. Constitution, the federal law controls.  The open question 
is how to bring the federal requirement within the framework of the 
state statute.  The NB City Council has heretofore disclaimed any 
responsibility to use one of its five appointments to appoint the 
member required by federal law.  But I have not seen any legal 
reasoning justifying their position.  Thus, it could be argued that 
the city council has failed to obey the federal mandate.  









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1185
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-20 23:12:37
Subject:? of united front against imperialism & republicans
Message:

1st we shd state that there is no place within the peoples' democratic 
united front against imperialism for republicans.

2nd we should recognize that petty bourgeois opportunism confused 
(denied) the differences between the democrats & republicans in the 
presidential election, resulting in the imperialists' best candidate 
(Bush2) seizing power.  A defeat for the people, at the hands of 
"progressives".  The road to hell is paved w/ good intentions.

Locally, we must acknowledge that the Peoples' Campaign's opportunism 
confused (ignored) the difference between the democrats & republicans 
in the council election, resulting in the imperialists' best candidate 
(FBushNB)seizing power.  A defeat for the people, at the hands of 
"progressives".

The Peoples' Campaign/ NJFO ("for revolutionary democracy & 
socialism"), take no responsibility for this.  Instead, hurl insults 
at their critics.

The PC/NJFO puts forward the position that the peoples' primary enemy 
in New Brunswick is the local Democratic political machine.  This view 
is devoid of any class analysis, regardless the claims to marxism of 
its defenders.  The Republican polical machine puts forward the EXACT 
SAME POSITION, as it does nationally.  

The Republican position is that the Democrats are corrupt & 
inefficient.  Gov't oversight, review, open books, anti-corruption, 
know yr rights, memorials(MLK...), fairness, "equality", 
anti-brutality &c., all fit within the Republican (stated) program as 
against the Democrats. In this way, the Republicans manipulate popular 
dicontent with Democratic imperial sloppiness (Clinton, TedKennedy, 
Cahill...), to replace w/ their more streamlined, "compassionate" 
corporationism. They're not here to tear down the political machine, 
just to do better. 

The critics on the right do not fear abstract reformism. The 
Republicans put Nadir in their anti-Gore ads!

The Republicans also put the Peoples' Campaign in their anti-Cahill 
progam.  Because the PC made no anti-imperialist, clear, working-class 
(peoples') position.  Only Seize Power From Cahill! "Community" is 
ambiguous. Bush promotes the "Peoples' Budget"!  Republicans were 
embraced into the highest positions of the PC, boosting their minority 
position in NB. They & J&J both are eager to oust the clumsy 
Democrats.

NB Republican Party Chair FB played the PC well.  His anti-Marxist, 
anti-worker position was open & clear.  Yet he maintains official good 
standing in the PC (certain individual bad feelings aside).  His most 
public defenders come from w/in the PC at its highest levels, from its 
most respected leaders, who themselves REGISTERED AS REPUBLICANS!  
Why? to chase "office dreams", instead of peoples' organization.

The PC/NJFO minimizes (criminally) the relationship of the Republican 
Secratary of State (DS) to the people of NJ & NB. DS is a fascist 
operative.  His entire role is to cover racist profiling brutality, 
the open, state terror of imperialist dictatorship.  Regardless of his 
"religious" trappings (speaking of "clerical obscurantism" & "missing 
Deforest for the trees"!), any affiliation to him is political, and 
especially so when that affiliation comes from another political 
figure, like an area council candidate!  Where is the demand that DS 
release the $500,000 appropriated by the state legislature to 
Crossroads Theater?  Where the demand that DS retract his official 
defense of Attorney General (now SCJustice!) Peter ("racist profiling 
didn't exist before 4/'98") Verniero?

DS' love-fest w/ Bush2 & DiFransesco last week is testament to local 
Republican insurgency.  & responsibility falls squarely on the PC 
"Republican Revolution".

Peoples' war on the right!  We also "zero in", curtis.
Go Frank Go Frank (& his Republican defenders) in the garbage can! 









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1186
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-20 23:15:34
Subject:tuesday profiling hearings:
Message:

                                                                      
     





                NJ--Racial Profiling-Glance 

                The Associated Press
                3/20/01 8:48 PM

                The Senate Judiciary Committee on Tuesday continued
                hearings into the state's response to charges that 
state
                police troopers practiced racial profiling. 

                The following is a list of witnesses that appeared 
Tuesday
                and a summary of their testimony on racial profiling: 

                --John Fahy, assistant attorney general: Former 
Attorney
                General Peter G. Verniero worked to avoid an
                "investigation" by federal authorities. "He thought 
that that
                word had a negative connotation," Fahy testified. "He 
was
                afraid it would reflect adversely on our state and the
                administration." 

                --George Rover, deputy attorney general: State police 
Sgt.
                Thomas Gilbert gave him reports that showed black and
                Hispanic drivers were stopped and searched more than
                whites. Verniero's deputies told Rover not to send any
                information to the U.S. Justice Department unless he
                cleared it with them. Some officials told Rover to 
delay
                sending some of Gilbert's reports to Washington. 

                --Carl Williams, former state police superintendent: 
In his
                five years as head of the agency, no one asked him 
about
                racial profiling. Williams also testified that federal
                authorities sent "mixed messages" about drug
                enforcement. The Drug Enforcement Agency encouraged
                troopers to stop people on the New Jersey Turnpike, 
but
                the Justice Department's civil rights division forced 
them to
                stop, Williams said. 

                --Albert Sacchetti, state police lieutenant: Described 
for
                lawmakers his 30-man task force investigating whether
                troopers on the turnpike had falsified records to 
conceal
                racial profiling. Sacchetti said the work was abruptly
                suspended after the April 1999 interim report and the
                indictment of Troopers John Hogan and James Kenna for
                falsifying records. The squad had identified 159 
troopers
                who had committed at least administrative violations. 

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material ma







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1187
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-20 23:18:34
Subject:verniero knew of profiling...
Message:







                Witnesses say Verniero was
                well aware of profiling 

                By JOHN P. McALPIN
                The Associated Press
                3/20/01 7:50 PM

                TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- New Jersey's former attorney
                general knew racial profiling was a problem long 
before he
                admitted it publicly and even tried to avoid a federal
                investigation because it would damage the state's
                reputation, witnesses said Tuesday. 

                Peter G. Verniero was again the focus of nearly all 
the
                testimony before a Senate committee investigating 
racial
                profiling. 

                Through two days of hearings, the Senate Judiciary
                Committee has questioned current and former state 
police
                officers as well as two of Verniero's deputies who 
oversaw
                an internal inquiry into profiling. 

                Now a Supreme Court justice, Verniero is expected to
                testify next week and is listed as the committee's 
final
                witness. 

                Verniero knew of concerns that state police were 
targeting
                minority drivers as early as December 1996, according 
to
                Tuesday's testimony. 

                In a meeting with state police officers and his 
deputies,
                Verniero was briefed on several court actions 
involving
                accusations of profiling and the possibility that the 
U.S.
                Justice Department would launch its own investigation. 

                Verniero was adamant that he would not allow a federal
                investigation and planned to visit Justice Department
                officials to make amends, Assistant Attorney General 
John
                Fahy testified. 

                "He thought that that word had a negative 
connotation,"
                Fahy said. "He was afraid it would reflect adversely 
on our
                state and the administration." 

                Although Fahy did not provide detailed statistics that
                showed state police targeted minorities more than 
whites,
                he said Verniero was aware racial profiling was a 
problem. 

                "Anyone with an ounce of common sense could see we
                had a history and if you're going down to Washington 
it's a
                big issue," Fahy said. 

                At a May 1997 meeting, Verniero promised to do all he
                could to avoid a court order giving the Justice 
Department
                control of the state police, former superintendent 
Carl
                Williams said. Williams was fired after he linked 
minorities
                to drug trafficking in a February 1999 newspaper 
interview. 

                "It was the consensus that the attorney general and 
the
                state police would do everything they could to avoid 
signing
                a consent decree with the Justice Department," 
Williams
                testified. "I was happy." 

                Alexander Waugh -- Verniero's former executive 
assistant
                and now a Superior Court judge -- would later tell a 
deputy
                attorney general to withhold key documents from 
federal
                investigators, witnesses said. 

                Assistant Attorney General George Rover testified that 
he
                collected state police studies that showed minorities 
were
                stopped and searched more than whites at alarming 
rates
                -- sometimes as high as 94 percent. 

                Rover thought the Justice Department should have 
access
                to reports like that, but he was ordered not to turn 
anything
                over unless he had permission from Waugh, Rover
                testified. 

                "He told me to hold onto it and he would get back to 
me,"
                Rover testified. 

                Another federal request came in December 1998. This 
time
                Waugh's replacement, David Hespe, had a similar order,
                Rover said. 

                "Don't turn it over. Get back to Justice and say that 
we are
                looking and let me know if they ask again," Rover 
recalled
                was his order from Hespe. 

                Verniero did not publicly admit racial profiling -- 
the
                practice in which police make motor vehicle stops 
based
                on drivers' race -- until April 1999. 

                That came in a report issued a year after two troopers 
fired
                shots at a van stopped for speeding on the New Jersey
                Turnpike. Three of the four men inside -- all unarmed 
and
                all minorities -- were wounded. The white troopers 
have
                said they fired in self-defense, thinking the van's 
driver was
                trying to run them over. 

                Verniero released that report the day after announcing 
an
                indictment against the two troopers in the shooting.
                Witnesses testified Monday that Verniero rushed to
                release that report because the Justice Department
                planned a civil rights lawsuit. 

                Witnesses on both days said the attorney general's 
office
                had access to state police studies that began in 1996. 

                Sgt. Thomas Gilbert studied the problem for at least 
three
                years. His records -- all of which he made available 
to the
                attorney general's office -- showed minority motorists
                accounted for 89 percent of people searched by state
                troopers assigned to the Moorestown barracks in 1994 
and
                1995. 

                Another study of troopers at the Cranbury barracks in 
1994
                reportedly showed minorities accounted for 94 percent 
of
                all searches. A later study of trooper searches of 
suspects
                from July to December 1996 put that figure at 79 
percent. 

                Verniero reportedly had access to information like 
that,
                witnesses said. 

                But it wasn't until the April 1998 shooting that he 
realized
                profiling was a problem and needed study, Verniero 
said at
                his 1999 Supreme Court confirmation hearing. 

                "As I say, the allegations of profiling crystallized 
in my
                mind around the time of the turnpike case. That's when 
we
                began looking at data in a comprehensive way starting 
with
                the two barracks," Verniero said then. 

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.













-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1188
Sender:"Arthouse 559" <arthouse559@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-21 10:38:35
Subject:Assata Shakur and the New Brunswick movement
Message:

This is a message I sent to Pacifica Radio's Democracy Now! crew.  This 
followed an email exchange I had with one of their producers. I think we can 
do more outreach based on this model. Check it out--Paul


Dear Kris Abrams and the Democracy Now! crew,

We corresponded on March 8th after Democracy Now! played a recording of 
Assata Shakur talking about the prison-industrial complex.  I emailed you 
right after the show and asked if I could replay the recording at a poetry 
event that I work on.

Kris emailed me back and said that would be fine. She also wrote that if we 
have stuff worth covering in New Brunswick, then she wants to hear about it. 
So I sent Kris the following email to her account. I wanted to resend the 
message to the democracy now! email acct.

I explained that Assata Shakur is a local hero where I live, in New 
Brunswick, NJ, and that many people I know have languished in the jails and 
prisons where Assata was illegal held. The Assata recording really resonates 
with what we do in New Brunswick. I thought that Democracy Now! might be 
interested in checking out the New Brunswick scene.

We have a vibrant activist community in New Brunswick, and one of the 
feature events we do is called Arthouse. Arthouse is a poetry, music and 
performance art event which features local and regional talent and 
encourages people to make their own art in the name of progressive issues 
and freedom. Basically, we say everyone has a voice and they need to use it 
to fight for their rights and for the collective advancement of the 
majority.

Here's my original message:

Dear Kris,
    Again I want to thank you for your email.  I want to bring up what we do 
in
    New Brunswick. There is a long history of activism in many ideological
    traditions in New Brunswick.  We're home to Rutgers U., the state school 
of
    NJ.  During the 60s, students sat in the univ. pres's office to protest 
the
    Vietnam War.  During the 80s, large groups moved for divestment in South
    Africa and against the violence in Central America.  In the 90s, 
students
    mobilized to take back campus space for women and fight against a racist
    Rutgers president.

    New Brunswick is also the world hq of Johnson and Johnson, and the city 
has
    been characterized by slash and burn redevelopment in the years since 
the
    race riots of the sixties. The permanent residents are 85% black and 
latino,
    and suffer prolonged poverty, disenfranchisement and political 
repression
    dating back to the days of Jim Crow.

    Following these trends, some longstanding activist groups came together 
early
    last year to create an agenda to reverse the climate of corporate 
control and
    political corruption that has long characterized this "Democrat" Party 
town.
    We formed the New Brunswick People's Campaign, comprised of longtime
    residents and students who are black, white and latino.  We developed a
    platform around community control of local institutions and civil 
rights.  We
    ran the most successful independent challenge to the Democrat Party 
Machine
    to date, and got 30% of the vote (despite severe repression, the most
    successful independent ticket in the tri-State area) in the city council
    campaign on our first try.

    As the city council campaign grew, we developed Arthouse as an 
independent
    event meant to champion the need for space for people to express 
themselves.
    We held numerous events with poetry, hip hop, folk, a live band, and a
    diverse crowd.  The show has become one of the centerpieces of our 
diverse
    and growing activist community.  We're fighting to liberate space in 
which
    people can speak for their rights and can express themselves 
artistically to
    each other.

    We think our work represents a model which needs to be broadcast to 
people
    all over the country in this age of privatization and rollbacks of 
rights.  I
    want to invite you and a sound crew to the April Arthouse, where we'll 
spray
    all kinds of expression related to the movement we're trying to build.  
I
    hope to hear from you soon.

    Yours, Paul McGee
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1189
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-21 10:50:38
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Dr. Helen Caldicott, anti-nuclear activist, lecture 3/22
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: siddharta5@...
To: FRIENDSWBAINJ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Dr. Helen Caldicott, anti-nuclear activist, lecture 
3/22
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 05:44:49 -0000
Dr. Helen Caldicott, anti-nuclear activist, lectures March 22 in New 
Brunswick
Dr. Helen Caldicott, the Australian pediatrician whose 30-year crusade 
against nuclear arms has galvanized hundreds of thousands of physicians and 
citizens around the world, will present a free public lecture at Douglass 
College Thursday, March 22.
The 2001 occupant of the Laurie New Jersey Chair in Women's Studies at
Douglass College, Caldicott is lecturing and teaching the spring
semester through the women's studies department at the Institute for
Women's Leadership on the Douglass campus.
WHAT: Public lecture: "The Coming Nuclear War"
WHO: Born in Australia, Helen Caldicott holds degrees in medicine and
surgery from Adelaide Medical School. She has practiced and
taught in Australia and the United States, specializing in the
treatment of children with cystic fibrosis. In the late 1970s,
she acted against the threat of nuclear war by founding
Physicians for Social Responsibility. The organization evolved
into the International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear
War and received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1985. Caldicott also
founded the Women's Action for Nuclear disarmament and the STAR
(Standing for Truth About Radiation)Foundation. She started a new
political party in Australia called Our Common Future and plans
to run for the Australian Senate this year. Her new book, "The
Coming Nuclear War," will be published in September by The Free Press.
WHEN: Thursday, March 22; reception at 4 p.m., lecture at 5 p.m.
WHERE: Douglass College Center, George Street and Nichol Avenue,
New Brunswick
Contact: Joni Scanlon
732/932-7084, extension 610
E-mail: jscanlon@...
EDITOR'S NOTE: You are invited to send a reporter, photographer or
camera crew to this public event. To arrange an interview with Dr.
Helen Caldicott, contact Joni Scanlon, Office of Media Relations and
Communications, (732)932-7084, extension 610.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1190
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-21 12:14:56
Subject:douglass college site of nazi, anti-woman graffiti...
Message:

defeat imperialism & patriarchy!


                                                                           =
                                                 
Graffiti on walkway offends students
Signs of the swastika and insulting statements give rise to concern 


                                                    By Melissa Hayes
                                                    Staff Writer 


                                                    Phrases such as 
"The best society is a patriarchal society," and "Abortion is cool," 
littered a
                                                    small portion of 
the bicycle path located near Neilson Dining Hall on the Douglass 
campus
                                                    yesterday.

                                                    The verses and 
offensive pictures that demeaned women,
                                                    homosexuals and 
other groups, were written in chalk on a
                                                    15-foot area of the 
paved path that leads students from the
                                                    Neilson Dining Hall 
on the Cook/Doulgass campus to
                                                    Hickman Hall and 
the Douglass College Center.

                                                    Dina Schwartz, a 
Doulgass College first-year student, spotted
                                                    the chalk writing 
while leaving Neilson. "I noticed the swastika,
                                                    it kind of stood 
out to me," Schwartz said recollecting what first
                                                    caught her eye. "It 
really offended me," Schwartz, who
                                                    practices Judaism, 
said.

                                                    Devorah Moses, a 
Douglass College first-year student who saw
                                                    the chalkings along 
with Schwartz, said she was very offended
                                                    by the markings. 

                                                    "First I saw the 
big word `Kike,' then I read what was written,
                                                    then I saw the 
swastika," Moses said.

                                                    She said that the 
two tried to rub the drawing away with their
                                                    feet, but failed in 
their attempt. "We wanted to put water on it
                                                    because it was so 
horrible," she said. "We stood there for like
                                                    five minutes trying 
to get rid of it, the whole thing was bad, it was a dominatrix with a
                                                    swastika."

                                                    Moses said the 
chalkings that offended religious groups were particularly offensive to 
her.
                                                    "When you're joking 
around about people's races and religions, it's not funny, it just 
isn't
                                                    funny at all," she 
said.

                                                    Yesterday was not 
the first time that chalk drawings have been seen on the paths on the
                                                    Douglass campus. 
Many groups  in opposition of University policy  frequently write
                                                    offensive messages 
on the walks. In previous years, chalk drawings have been a regular
                                                    occurrence, but 
they have been less frequent this year. 








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1191
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-21 12:20:38
Subject:Re: meet with george berry: elected resident to housing...
Message:

meeting w/ george berry is 4pm, sat. 3/24, community room, bldg 1, 
projects.


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> meeting to organize election of public housing resident to housing 
> authority.
> 
> saturday afternoon in projects. more details coming.
> 
> all pressure must be put on city council tomorrow 7:00 pm city hall.
> we must demand that they comply with election and hold them responsible for 
> their part on the selection of bright.
> 
> contact joe smith 586.5535 can_bush@h...
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1192
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-21 12:51:03
Subject:he defended cop that killed Faison
Message:

and is praised by arseneault, lawyer for kenna. plus many other things 
including speech making for dole, working directly under guiliani...


                Racial profiling hearings
                place Chertoff on stage 

                03/19/01

                BY MARY JO PATTERSON
                STAR-LEDGER STAFF

Michael Chertoff, former hard-as-nails federal prosecutor, master of 
the withering cross-examination, and merciless extractor of facts, is 
squirming in his chair. When the topic is Michael Chertoff and someone 
else is doing the questioning, it turns out, he makes a very poor 
witness. 

"My childhood was . . . average. . . . Nothing stands out. It all kind 
of blends into the murky past," he says in his raspy, slightly 
high-pitched voice. 

Pressed for more details, Chertoff reclines in the chair, dark eyes 
briefly fixing on the ceiling of his 16th-floor office at One Newark 
Center, then lets out a sound midway between a bleat and a laugh. 
"I'll take the Fifth," he says. 

It's a joke, but he's dead serious. 

Chertoff, 47, is used to being the prober, not the man probed. 

He is happier asking questions, as he'll do today when the state 
Senate Judiciary Committee begins investigating how New Jersey's top 
legal officials handled allegations of racial profiling by the State 
Police. As special counsel to the committee, Chertoff will be front 
and center, interrogating witnesses with his characteristic blend of 
politesse and caustic precision. 

Judging from depositions of witnesses already released, it could be 
great theater. 

"You know I hate to sound like I'm a real moron, but. . . . you're 
beginning to do a great job of making me feel that way," New Jersey 
Superior Court Judge Alexander Waugh Jr., formerly a high-ranking 
executive in the state Attorney General's Office, told Chertoff Feb. 
23, after hours of questioning. 

"It's not what I'm looking to do," Chertoff responded politely. 

Although it has been seven years since he stepped down as the United 
States attorney for New Jersey, Chertoff continues to exude an air of 
authority and rectitude. Despite defending people who've made mistakes 
or broken the law, he is seen as occupying the highest moral ground.
Although he possesses impeccable Republican credentials, he's 
considered above partisanship. 

Last week, the White House nominated Chertoff to be assistant attorney 
general of the criminal division of the U.S. Justice Department in 
Washington. Insiders consider him a shoo-in. But first he must finish 
the racial profiling hearings, a job he is doing free of charge -- and 
is certain to savor. 

It's hardly the first time since leaving government that he has 
performed this kind of public service. In 1996, he spent months as 
special counsel to the U.S. Senate Committee investigating Whitewater, 
commuting between New Jersey and Washington. Last year, he ran an 
investigation of the New Jersey Department of Corrections. 

Some people say that Chertoff thrives, even feeds, on the limelight. 

"I wouldn't say I like the limelight, but I guess I do like feeling 
I'm where the action is," he said during an interview before being 
nominated for the Justice Department position. "Definitely, I'm 
attracted to feeling I'm part of something significant." 

Yet, for a man so often in the public eye, he's managed to keep his 
private life remarkably private. 

Ask him who was the best man at his wedding in 1988, and his initial 
reaction is to say he doesn't remember. Query him about his religious 
beliefs -- Chertoff's father, now deceased, was a rabbi and officiated 
at his wedding -- and he answers, "My religious and spiritual beliefs 
are pretty much what I want them to be." 

When it comes to discussing criminal or social justice issues, 
however, Chertoff is famously verbose. And, to be fair, there are some 
personal questions he will answer. 

He and his wife, Meryl -- a fellow graduate of Harvard Law School and 
part-time legislative counsel to Assemblyman Richard Bagger (R-Union) 
-- live in Westfield with their two children, ages 7 and 10. They also 
have a country house in Pennsylvania, where he likes to kayak. He is 5 
feet 111/2 inches and weighs 165 pounds. A "semi-fanatic" runner, he
jogs at least 20 miles a week, hitting the street around 6 or
6:30 a.m. He tries to eat healthy but occasionally "falls off the 
wagon." 

He loves biography, history and true-crime books -- especially those 
involving a former target or client. He is a big fan of HBO's hit show 
"The Sopranos" and wishes they'd hire real people instead of actors so 
he could make a cameo appearance as a prosecutor. 

On the Justice Department job -- which would involve a financial hit 
(it pays $125,700, surely less than he earns now) and a possible move 
-- Chertoff is mum. Commenting before the confirmation process, he 
says, would be wrong. 

Chertoff's friends admit he is extremely guarded. But John J. Fahy, a 
former assistant U.S. attorney and devoted friend, says Chertoff's 
distant, often abrupt manner masks a warm and funny man. 

"In the U.S. Attorney's Office, a lot of people were kind of 
half-afraid of him. He was so bright, anticipated your questions and 
got to the point so quickly, he was intimidating," said Fahy, now in 
private practice in Newark. 

Morristown lawyer Walter Timpone, another colleague from Chertoff's 
U.S. attorney days, said Chertoff's demeanor is just a veneer. 

"He has the ability to be razor-sharp and cut you off at the legs, but 
the only time that will happen is in a professional setting. And 
usually in a courtroom," he said. 

Chertoff was born in Elizabeth, the only child of Rabbi Gershon 
Chertoff and Livia Chertoff. The family later moved to Hillside. 

His father, rabbi for a conservative synagogue, was active in civic 
affairs and politically wired. Former Gov. Thomas Kean, who got to 
know Rabbi Chertoff through a mutual friend, considered him a 
spiritual adviser. 

"He was just a very wise man, and a man of very deep conscience," said 
Kean, who asked the rabbi to deliver the invocation at his 
inauguration. 

Chertoff's mother, who was born in Poland, lived in Palestine and 
England before her marriage. A striking woman, she was an aspiring 
actress who landed a few bit parts in films and worked as a stewardess 
for El Al, the Israeli airline. Mrs. Chertoff, who died two years ago, 
also ran an art gallery in Elizabeth. 

Young Michael went to school at the Jewish Education Center in 
Elizabeth. Later he attended the Pingry School, then a semi-exclusive, 
all-boys private school in Hillside, where he was managing editor of 
the school paper and wrote editorials. The school is now co-ed and 
located in Martinsville. 

During his junior year, Chertoff visited a friend of the family      
studying at Harvard and decided that's where he should go to college, 
too. 

"I had a great time. I remember late-night poker playing; Boston, 
which seemed a great place, and girls," he said. "And, the prestigious 
degree." 

Chertoff majored in history and spent one year at the London School of 
Economics. The way he tells things, he was an unfocused young man who 
"drifted" through college. Nonetheless, he graduated magna cum laude. 

Then came law school, also at Harvard. 

"I took my LSATs my senior year for want of anything else," Chertoff 
said. "The next thing you know, I was going to law school. I loved 
it." 

He also worked at it, and became editor of the Harvard Law Review. 
Chertoff was an argumentative and ambitious student, who served as the 
inspiration for two characters in "One L," Scott Turow's fictionalized 
memoir of first year at Harvard Law School. One of the characters in 
the book participates in a two-day-long classroom argument with a
famously liberal law professor, as Chertoff himself rather famously 
did. 

After graduating from law school, Chertoff clerked for a federal 
appeals court judge and for U.S. Supreme Court Justice William J. 
Brennan. Then he joined a Washington, D.C., law firm. 

After a few years there, Chertoff found himself wanting to try cases, 
particularly criminal cases. He sent his rsum to the office of the 
U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, then the sexiest 
crime-busting office in the  country. 

He was hired. It was 1983. His boss was Rudy Giuliani, the crusading 
federal prosecutor. Chertoff launched his career as a dragon-slayer 
with the famous "Commission" case in 1986, where he used the Racketeer 
Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act to take down a slew of
mobsters. 

Chertoff moved over to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Newark as first 
assistant the following year. By 1990, he headed the office. Unlike 
his predecessors, he continued trying cases himself, putting away 
mobsters, corrupt politicians and fraud artists. 

Colleagues couldn't believe how deeply he immersed himself in his 
work. Aides who complained that he was rude or didn't return their 
hello when he passed them in the hall were told that he was just too 
absorbed to see or hear them. 

Chertoff admits his driven, obsessive attention to task. 

"When I'm in the middle of trying a case," he says, "you could pretty 
much set off a bomb in the courtroom and I wouldn't even know it." 

Remarkably, Chertoff hung onto the job after President Bill Clinton's 
election, despite the new administration's dismissal of holdovers. 
According to the New Jersey Law Journal, he was the first U.S. 
attorney to survive a change in party since 1933. 

After stepping down in 1994, Chertoff rejoined the law firm of Latham 
& Watkins, where he'd worked after law school. A year later, he was 
tapped to be independent counsel in the Whitewater hearings, a 
position that gave him huge visibility. He was a sought-after 
newsmaker. 

In 1996, he stepped out the prosecutor role and went on the stump for 
presidential candidate Bob Dole. At a rally in Lyndhurst, newspapers 
reported, he held aloft a Dole-Kemp sign and gave a spirited speech 
denouncing Clinton. 

Today, Chertoff disputes the part about holding up the sign.

"I was getting a signed autograph for my kids," he corrected. But he 
acknowledged having made a speech -- and laughed at the memory, 
seeming to wince slightly. "As a private citizen, you do have the 
luxury of expressing yourself. It's the only time I ever went out on 
the stump. I obviously liked Dole, whom I knew personally, and I had a
very poor opinion about the ethical standards of the Clinton 
administration," he said. 

Chertoff and his wife also contributed money to Republicans. They 
included James Treffinger, the Essex County executive for whom he 
worked on a variety of jobs; Alfonse D'Amato, the senator from New 
York who presided over the Whitewater hearings; and state Sen. William
Gormley (R-Atlantic), chairman of the state Senate's Judiciary 
Committee. 

Being identified with a party and making political contributions are 
necessary, said his friend and colleague Fahy, a politically active 
Democrat. 

"If you want to do public service, and you want to get special 
assignments, you have to be aligned with a party," Fahy said. "You 
need the badges." 

Many ex-prosecutors who become defense attorneys end up as private 
prosecutors, conducting internal investigations for companies. 
Chertoff did his share of that kind of work, often for big national 
clients. 

But he also took cases where he had to defend individual clients 
accused of wrongdoing. Those cases opened his eyes to human frailties, 
he said, and -- in some cases -- to prosecutorial misconduct. 

"I have seen some excellent prosecutors, and others, I was surprised 
to see, who were not so good," Chertoff said. "I saw tactics, where a 
prosecutor did not indict an individual, but brought up their name in 
another proceeding, defaming the individual," he added. "That's a 
mugging." 

Chertoff has chalked up some big wins. 

He successfully defended Michael Francis, the former chairman of the 
New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority and a one-time fund-raiser 
for former Gov. Christie Whitman. Chertoff deftly neutralized the 
state's central witness by demonstrating that her testimony was 
tainted, getting a judge to toss the case. 

But there have also been losses. 

One occurred in December, when a jury convicted his client, former Lt. 
Thomas Smith, one of five Orange cops accused of civil rights 
violations in the death of a prisoner, Earl Faison. 

That's how it goes when you're a defense attorney, said Jack 
Arseneault, a veteran criminal trial attorney in Chatham. 

"As a prosecutor, it's easy to be a winner. For a defense lawyer, it's 
a very different proposition," he said. "Mike is certainly an 
accomplished attorney, and I hold him in high regard. But he's as 
fallible as anyone else." 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1193
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-21 13:00:04
Subject:Fwd: LIST OF SPONSORS FOR THE MARCH ON TRENTON
Message:

to all, i am working to recruit organizations for the march on trenton to 
defeat racist profiling. below are current sponsors. please go to your 
organizations and request that they too sign on and get back to me. there is 
a meeting tomorrow in the college ave student center 2nd flr. lounge at 
7:00pm any questions can be addressed. come and provide resources for this 
march.  larry hamm and minister lennie mohammed will attend to provide 
details for what in needed and to answer any questions.

joe 586 5535


>From: Unslaved@...
To: CAN_BUSH@...
Subject: LIST OF SPONSORS FOR THE MARCH ON TRENTON
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:43:05 EST

JOE- AS OF MARCH 9, 2001, THE FOLLOWING ORGANIZATIONS ARE SOME OF THE
SPONSORS OF THE MARCH ON TRENTON:


PEOPLE'S ORGANIZATION FOR PROGRESS, NEW JERSEY STATE CONFERENCE OF NAACP 
BRANCHES, BLACK MINISTERS' COUNCIL OF NJ, TRENTON BRANCH NAACP, NJ BLACK 
ISSUES CONVENTION, NJ MILLION FAMILY MARCH COALITION, BLACK COPS AGAINST 
POLICE BRUTALITY, CWA LOCAL 1033, MUHAMMAD'S MOSQUE NO. 44, TRENTON MILLION 
MAN MARCH COALITION, MUHAMMAD'S MOSQUE NO. 25, SAVE OUR CHILDREN, IMANI 
CHURCH, HOPEWELL ANTI-RACIST, CAMDEN LOGISTICAL ORGANIZATION COMMITTEE, 
TRENTON VICTORY ANGLES, STUDENT/WORKER ORGANIZATION FOR REVOLUTIONARY 
DEMOCRACY, COMMITTEE TO DEFEAT RACIST PROFILING, SISTERHOOD & STRUGGLE, AND 
CHAIN BREAKERS

DOUGLASS

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1194
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-21 15:15:38
Subject:nazi "world church of the creator"--"religious leader", njfo/pc???
Message:







                     Court to hear argument over racist
                     church's status 

                     By CHRISTOPHER WILLS
                     The Associated Press
                     3/21/01 3:00 PM

                     SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (AP) -- No one questions that 
the World Church of the
                     Creator is a racist group that sells books like 
"The White Man's Bible." No
                     one questions that a former member went on a 
shooting spree and killed
                     two people, both minorities. 

                     But is it a charity? That's what the state Supreme 
Court must decide. 

                     Attorney General Jim Ryan argues it is, meaning it 
should have registered
                     with the state and filed financial disclosure 
forms. He wants to fine the
                     organization and bar it from further fund-raising 
in Illinois. 

                     "It's a statute that has been applied for 37 
years," Assistant Attorney
                     General Mary Welsch said in court arguments 
Wednesday. 

                     The organization and its leader, Matt Hale, 
maintain that the World
                     Church is not a charity and never had any 
obligation to register. Hale
                     argues that the state law governing charities is 
so vague it must be ruled
                     unconstitutional. 

                     "The penalties for non-compliance -- purely for 
guessing wrong about
                     what the statute means and failing to register -- 
are severe," Hale's
                     attorney Glenn Greenwald said Wednesday. 

                     A county judge backed Hale and declared the law 
unconstitutional in
                     February 2000. 

                     "There is really no doubt but that Ryan brought 
this silly lawsuit against us
                     in an effort to further his political career," 
Hale said in a statement. 

                     Ryan sued the group in 1999, just days after a 
former member, Benjamin
                     Smith, went on a shooting spree. Smith killed two 
people and wounded
                     nine people -- all minorities -- before killing 
himself. 

                     Hale has called Smith a "friend and co-
religionist." 

                     Ryan rejects the argument that the charity law is 
too vague. He says it
                     has stood for 37 years and survived scrutiny by 
other courts. 

                     Hale says the law does not spell out what 
constitutes a charity, giving the
                     attorney general arbitrary power to decide what 
groups must register. 

                     Hale contends that if the church can be punished 
for not registering as a
                     charity, so could any group. His legal briefs 
argue his organization clearly
                     is not a charity, but rather "an avowedly racist 
and virulently anti-Semitic
                     group." 

                      Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights 
reserved. This material may not be
                                 published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1195
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-21 19:52:14
Subject:Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

i can't help but comment:

i am finding these versions of history pretty funny. doesn't it strike you 
as questionable that the "budding youth activist" split the Campaign once he 
wasn't elected to the steering committee? why is that exactly? why would I 
want someone like that to be my leader?

also, not understanding why, at times, it is necessary to ally yourself with 
your foe (ie. a republican) in the context of the general situation ( a 
democratic party machine) indicates your narrow understanding of political 
development. that is the nature of tactical alliances. gaining the office 
space did mountains more for the campaign than you understand. just like 
raising money is a necessary task, so is making sure the practical elements 
of a campaign come to pass.

ps. the clever little nicknames are annoying.

kristina

>
>at the may'00 peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth
>activist jason hankins was nominated by block on lock for the final
>executive board seat. njfo ("for revolutionary democracy &
>socialism"), fiending (as now)after "office space" (rather than
>peoples' organization), backed the nb republican party chair dim liar
>(after(!) he had challenged joe smith's election as chair to elected
>board of education committee, on grounds that he is a communist.).
>
>hankins lost & left, with him the outreach committee (motorcades...),
>and possible victory.
>
>rather then relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to enlist
>  as republican party members for election day privileges. dim liar
>pimped this "artificial" support to his now real position.
>
>rather than unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize
>power!, it is the republicans who have seized the position of power
>out of the "peoples'" campaign.
>
>the nb "left bloc" must identify itself immediately, & drive the right
>from its organizations.  all imposters must be exposed and isolated.
>
>dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & back george
>berry's call for elected resident representation.
>
>all eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining
>projects residents (court hearing is 5april).
>
>skunk soaries must immediately stop obstructing the $500,000 allocated
>  by the state legislature to crossroads theater.
>
>protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, residence of nb republican party
>chair dim liar.
>
>republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
>revolutionaries unite! with the people.
>
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1196
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-21 21:03:22
Subject:Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

im a put it this way...

if you want to get anywhere in nb, start by not hating on jason hankins.  
thats just to let you know.

questionable? not really. hankins pulled 5-10 youth out every sat. & sun. to 
do door-to-door surveys, until the convention.  it was these youth who 
introduced the campaign at people's doors.  that made the motorcade come to 
life...(these youth whose families see what theyre getting involved 
with...whose network thru the city is beyond the wildest imagination of pc 
steering committees...)

he got no love (perhaps if he'd been a republican!) from the campaign 
leaders. & responded accordingly.  nobody out here gonna lose face for your 
self-serving ambition.  the patronizing, liberal pc makes the mistake of 
thinking it knows more than even the youth of the community.

the "general situation" is that the republicans control the state and the 
country.  they are the imperialists most effective political weapon against 
the peoples' movement.  the democrats are always preferable to the 
republicans, even when they are the local (or even "general"!) majority.  
this is the "tactical alliance" the people need against imperialism.  yr 
"general understanding" puts nb's "democratic political machine" at the 
center of objective political reality (just as it puts the pc at the center 
of nb political reality--where was njfo when neal ran for mayor, '98? during 
any of the elected school board campaigns?). let me be forever "narrow" to 
endorsing the principal, "general", political enemy of the people.

the argument is not against "office spaces" or "raising money".  it is 
against placing these as primary before peoples' organization.  peoples' war 
means rely on the people.  offices, $$, can always be gotten.  confidence is 
hard won.  from outside nb, perhaps office spaces may appear as "mountains" 
of importance...

ps. petty bourgeois schemes posturing as working class strategy is 
"annoying".

>From: "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the 
>right!
>Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:52:14
>
>i can't help but comment:
>
>i am finding these versions of history pretty funny. doesn't it strike you
>as questionable that the "budding youth activist" split the Campaign once 
>he
>wasn't elected to the steering committee? why is that exactly? why would I
>want someone like that to be my leader?
>
>also, not understanding why, at times, it is necessary to ally yourself 
>with
>your foe (ie. a republican) in the context of the general situation ( a
>democratic party machine) indicates your narrow understanding of political
>development. that is the nature of tactical alliances. gaining the office
>space did mountains more for the campaign than you understand. just like
>raising money is a necessary task, so is making sure the practical elements
>of a campaign come to pass.
>
>ps. the clever little nicknames are annoying.
>
>kristina
>
> >
> >at the may'00 peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth
> >activist jason hankins was nominated by block on lock for the final
> >executive board seat. njfo ("for revolutionary democracy &
> >socialism"), fiending (as now)after "office space" (rather than
> >peoples' organization), backed the nb republican party chair dim liar
> >(after(!) he had challenged joe smith's election as chair to elected
> >board of education committee, on grounds that he is a communist.).
> >
> >hankins lost & left, with him the outreach committee (motorcades...),
> >and possible victory.
> >
> >rather then relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to enlist
> >  as republican party members for election day privileges. dim liar
> >pimped this "artificial" support to his now real position.
> >
> >rather than unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize
> >power!, it is the republicans who have seized the position of power
> >out of the "peoples'" campaign.
> >
> >the nb "left bloc" must identify itself immediately, & drive the right
> >from its organizations.  all imposters must be exposed and isolated.
> >
> >dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & back george
> >berry's call for elected resident representation.
> >
> >all eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining
> >projects residents (court hearing is 5april).
> >
> >skunk soaries must immediately stop obstructing the $500,000 allocated
> >  by the state legislature to crossroads theater.
> >
> >protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, residence of nb republican party
> >chair dim liar.
> >
> >republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
> >revolutionaries unite! with the people.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1198
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-22 11:26:41
Subject:MARCH 3, 2001 MINUTES
Message:

The minutes for the March 3, 2001 meeting follow.  Please forgive my 
delay in preparing and submitting them so late.



NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
GENERAL MEMBERSHIP MEETING
MARCH 3, 2001

MINUTES

	Present: L. Alex, A. Allred, L. Ammentorp, J. Bates, J. 
Boswell, M. Carey, L. Dediano, T. DeGloma, J. Gross, X. Hansen, K. 
Joseph, D. Key, F. Komuves, J. Luceno, B. Marshall, P. McGee, D. 
Morales, J. Mosley, S. Niglio, Z. Nowakowski, N. Palmieri, J. Poulos, 
S. Prince, D. Rosado, K. Riordan, M. Smith, A. L. Wargo.

	The meeting was called to order at 2:21 p.m.

	Zofia Nowakowski gave introductory remarks about the goals, 
history and objectives of the Campaign.

	Nominates for Chair of the Meeting were opened. Xavier Hansen 
was the sole nominee and was chosen as Chair. 

	A motion was made to approve the agenda as written.  The 
Chair explained that although it was desirable to set the agenda at 
the outset of the meeting, motions to alter the agenda were in order 
at any time during the meeting in order to address any changing needs 
that might be encountered throughout the course of debate. 

	Keith Joseph moved to table certain agenda items until the 
next meeting, namely, item 6 (proposal concerning who is a member of 
the campaign); item 7(A) (campaign organization - proposal for key 
positions); item 8 (discussion of mission statement); and item 10 
(proposal for statement on rights and responsibilities).  He also 
observed that no discussion time was devoted to the Peoples Campaign 
Center, and suggested adding it to the agenda.  

	Supporters of the motion to table argued that these items 
were not previously presented to the body and that rather than a 
forum for presenting proposals of the Steering Committee, the general 
meeting ought to be a forum for obtaining ideas from the members for 
execution by the Steering Committee.  Opponents pointed out that all 
the items save one were previously introduced, that these were 
pressing matters and argued that the Steering Committee was within 
its rights to present desirable proposals to the membership.

	A motion was made to close debate, which passed.  The motion 
to table was then rejected.

	VOTE NO. 11 (TABLE CERTAIN AGENDA ITEMS)
	YES, 9
	NO, 14

	Keith Joseph then moved to add to the agenda a period of 
discussion, today, for item 13(A) (role of the Campaign in 2001 
gubernatorial election).  The motion was approved by acclamation.

	Discussion then began on agenda item 5 (Discussion - 
Community Participation within the People's Campaign) with a 
presentation from Danny Rosado.  For the remainder of the meeting, 
discussion was held on this point.  Throughout the course of this 
discussion, agenda item 7 (Building of the Campaign organization) was 
also considered in some detail.  In no particular order, the 
following items were discussed. 

	NEED FOR A SPECIFIC OFFICE LOCATION/PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN CENTER

	The need for a specific office location and People's Campaign 
Center was reaffirmed.  A need to have a fixed base of operations, 
even just a small one, so that community members, especially those 
within the Latino community, could identify with the Campaign and 
readily find Campaign workers was stressed.  Moreover, the People's 
Campaign Center is necessary for NBPC to continue its existing work, 
e.g. with its youth program.

	An office and Campaign Center committee to perform this task 
needs to be set up.  The Committee must address, among other things, 
fundraising and budgeting for the center, along with plans to 
regularly staff it.

	NEED TO WORK WITHIN EXISTING PROJECTS WITHIN THE CITY

	Simultaneously with advancing the People's Campaign Center, 
it is important to work with existing groups within the City.   There 
is no need to "re-invent the wheel" insofar as there are other groups 
within the city offering social services, education, etc.  By 
participating in such groups, we "network" and work with and help our 
fellow community members without organizational headaches inherent in 
setting up new groups.  Ultimately, if our participation is thorough 
enough, we can reach the majority of people.  Moreover, particpation 
by NBPC within community groups enhances the respectability and 
credibility of the organization.

	Among the groups that could be approached and to which we 
could offer our help are Crossroads Theater, the Rutgers Film Co-op 
and the Puerto Rican Action Board.

	It was also noted that there are numerous environmental 
groups, including Edison Wetlands Association, campus groups, and 
community-based survey teams already in existence.  Insofar as NBPC's 
plans include addressing environmental concerns within New Brunswick, 
we should work with such groups.

	Liaisons from NBPC to these groups should be assigned.

	A MESSAGE OF UNITY AND TOLERANCE

	Religious, national, and political differences among 
residents of New Brunswick are pronounced.  To succeed, NBPC needs to 
acknowledge these differences, yet stress that because we share a 
common goal of enhancing democratic control for New Brunswick 
residents and promoting their needs, we need to set these differences 
aside.

	NEED TO FORM A 501(c)(3) ENTITY FOR CAMPAIGN TO DELIVER 
EXISTING AND NEW SERVICES

	It would be important for a New Brunswick Campaign Foundation 
to be set up so that the entity can receive grants and tax-deductible 
donations for those aspects of Campaign work qualifying for 501(c)(3) 
recognition.  Persons willing to carry out this task should be 
identified.

	RESOURCE LIST

	The Campaign ought to publish two resource lists.  One would 
be addressed to Rutgers students to identify opportunities for them 
to participate in existing community activities (e.g. teaching, 
social service agencies, learning about government, etc.).  Another 
should be addressed to New Brunswick residents, so that they can 
easily access social and governmental services.  If published under 
the aegis of the People's Campaign, it promotes the visibility of the 
group.

	CAMPAIGN MEMBERS' LEADERSHIP SKILLS AND KNOWLEDGE BASE

	NBPC members and leaders must learn about both governmental 
and nongovernmental aspects of the city.  We need to acquire more 
information about what goes on in the city, and acquire knowledge, 
develop competence and develop professionally to be effective 
advocates for city residents.


	THE SECOND WARD BLOCK CLUB'S COMMUNITY CENTER PROPOSAL

	Joe Moseley spoke about the Second Ward Block Club's effort 
to build a community center.  He stressed that the project was 
conceived of as one that would operate free of governmental control 
and answerable to the people.  The community center is complementary 
to, not in conflict with, NBPC's proposal for a People's Campaign 
Center.   Laura Alex has been appointed liaison to the Community 
Center task force.

	ENHANCED OUTREACH ACTIVITY

	Our work should be on a number of levels.  Some residents 
suffer problems even on a very basic level, e.g. light, heat and 
water.  Part of NBPC's business should be supplying help about such 
problems and educating people about their rights in that regard.  

	Beverly Marshall stressed that it takes a long time to build 
trust with people and it is important to get to know people and 
families on a personal level, to share coffee or meals with them 
rather than simply passing out flyers.


	After this discussion, certain tasks were assigned.

	Debra Key will be in charge of the People's Campaign Center 
Committee and will, as a first priority, work on identifying a site 
for it.  She, along with Xavier Hansen, Tom DeGloma, and Justin 
Boswell, each promised one month's rent toward the center.

	Justin Boswell and Paul McGee agreed to work on generating: 
(1) a flyer detailing the history and work of the People's Campaign 
for general circulation; and (2) a mission statement, both of which 
will be presented to the membership for approval at the next meeting.

	Samantha Prince and Louise Ammentorp will continue in charge 
of the youth afterschool programs which have been functioning very 
well.

	The identification and delegation of further tasks by the 
Steering Committee was approved by consensus.  It was stressed that 
such decisions need made known to the general membership at meetings 
for the purposes of (1) maintaining accountability and democratic 
control of the leadership and (2) to identify qualified people to 
perform these tasks from the many different sectors that make up the 
People's Campaign.
 
	The meeting was adjourned at 4:55 p.m.


				Respectfully submitted,
								
			        FLAVIO L. KOMUVES
				General Counsel


Note: Subsequent NBPC membership meetings are on March 31; April 28; 
June 2; June 30; July 28.  All meetings commence at 2:00 p.m. sharp 
at the New Brunswick Public Library, Livingston Avenue, New Brunswick.










-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1199
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-22 11:28:15
Subject:MARCH 3, 2001 MINUTES
Message:

Following are the minutes for the March 3, 2001 general meeting.  
Please forgive my delay in preparing them and submitting them so late.

NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
GENERAL MEMBERSHIP MEETING
MARCH 3, 2001

MINUTES

	Present: L. Alex, A. Allred, L. Ammentorp, J. Bates, J. 
Boswell, M. Carey, L. Dediano, T. DeGloma, J. Gross, X. Hansen, K. 
Joseph, D. Key, F. Komuves, J. Luceno, B. Marshall, P. McGee, D. 
Morales, J. Mosley, S. Niglio, Z. Nowakowski, N. Palmieri, J. Poulos, 
S. Prince, D. Rosado, K. Riordan, M. Smith, A. L. Wargo.

	The meeting was called to order at 2:21 p.m.

	Zofia Nowakowski gave introductory remarks about the goals, 
history and objectives of the Campaign.

	Nominates for Chair of the Meeting were opened. Xavier Hansen 
was the sole nominee and was chosen as Chair. 

	A motion was made to approve the agenda as written.  The 
Chair explained that although it was desirable to set the agenda at 
the outset of the meeting, motions to alter the agenda were in order 
at any time during the meeting in order to address any changing needs 
that might be encountered throughout the course of debate. 

	Keith Joseph moved to table certain agenda items until the 
next meeting, namely, item 6 (proposal concerning who is a member of 
the campaign); item 7(A) (campaign organization - proposal for key 
positions); item 8 (discussion of mission statement); and item 10 
(proposal for statement on rights and responsibilities).  He also 
observed that no discussion time was devoted to the Peoples Campaign 
Center, and suggested adding it to the agenda.  

	Supporters of the motion to table argued that these items 
were not previously presented to the body and that rather than a 
forum for presenting proposals of the Steering Committee, the general 
meeting ought to be a forum for obtaining ideas from the members for 
execution by the Steering Committee.  Opponents pointed out that all 
the items save one were previously introduced, that these were 
pressing matters and argued that the Steering Committee was within 
its rights to present desirable proposals to the membership.

	A motion was made to close debate, which passed.  The motion 
to table was then rejected.

	VOTE NO. 11 (TABLE CERTAIN AGENDA ITEMS)
	YES, 9
	NO, 14

	Keith Joseph then moved to add to the agenda a period of 
discussion, today, for item 13(A) (role of the Campaign in 2001 
gubernatorial election).  The motion was approved by acclamation.

	Discussion then began on agenda item 5 (Discussion - 
Community Participation within the People's Campaign) with a 
presentation from Danny Rosado.  For the remainder of the meeting, 
discussion was held on this point.  Throughout the course of this 
discussion, agenda item 7 (Building of the Campaign organization) was 
also considered in some detail.  In no particular order, the 
following items were discussed. 

	NEED FOR A SPECIFIC OFFICE LOCATION/PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN CENTER

	The need for a specific office location and People's Campaign 
Center was reaffirmed.  A need to have a fixed base of operations, 
even just a small one, so that community members, especially those 
within the Latino community, could identify with the Campaign and 
readily find Campaign workers was stressed.  Moreover, the People's 
Campaign Center is necessary for NBPC to continue its existing work, 
e.g. with its youth program.

	An office and Campaign Center committee to perform this task 
needs to be set up.  The Committee must address, among other things, 
fundraising and budgeting for the center, along with plans to 
regularly staff it.

	NEED TO WORK WITHIN EXISTING PROJECTS WITHIN THE CITY

	Simultaneously with advancing the People's Campaign Center, 
it is important to work with existing groups within the City.   There 
is no need to "re-invent the wheel" insofar as there are other groups 
within the city offering social services, education, etc.  By 
participating in such groups, we "network" and work with and help our 
fellow community members without organizational headaches inherent in 
setting up new groups.  Ultimately, if our participation is thorough 
enough, we can reach the majority of people.  Moreover, particpation 
by NBPC within community groups enhances the respectability and 
credibility of the organization.

	Among the groups that could be approached and to which we 
could offer our help are Crossroads Theater, the Rutgers Film Co-op 
and the Puerto Rican Action Board.

	It was also noted that there are numerous environmental 
groups, including Edison Wetlands Association, campus groups, and 
community-based survey teams already in existence.  Insofar as NBPC's 
plans include addressing environmental concerns within New Brunswick, 
we should work with such groups.

	Liaisons from NBPC to these groups should be assigned.

	A MESSAGE OF UNITY AND TOLERANCE

	Religious, national, and political differences among 
residents of New Brunswick are pronounced.  To succeed, NBPC needs to 
acknowledge these differences, yet stress that because we share a 
common goal of enhancing democratic control for New Brunswick 
residents and promoting their needs, we need to set these differences 
aside.

	NEED TO FORM A 501(c)(3) ENTITY FOR CAMPAIGN TO DELIVER 
EXISTING AND NEW SERVICES

	It would be important for a New Brunswick Campaign Foundation 
to be set up so that the entity can receive grants and tax-deductible 
donations for those aspects of Campaign work qualifying for 501(c)(3) 
recognition.  Persons willing to carry out this task should be 
identified.

	RESOURCE LIST

	The Campaign ought to publish two resource lists.  One would 
be addressed to Rutgers students to identify opportunities for them 
to participate in existing community activities (e.g. teaching, 
social service agencies, learning about government, etc.).  Another 
should be addressed to New Brunswick residents, so that they can 
easily access social and governmental services.  If published under 
the aegis of the People's Campaign, it promotes the visibility of the 
group.

	CAMPAIGN MEMBERS' LEADERSHIP SKILLS AND KNOWLEDGE BASE

	NBPC members and leaders must learn about both governmental 
and nongovernmental aspects of the city.  We need to acquire more 
information about what goes on in the city, and acquire knowledge, 
develop competence and develop professionally to be effective 
advocates for city residents.


	THE SECOND WARD BLOCK CLUB'S COMMUNITY CENTER PROPOSAL

	Joe Moseley spoke about the Second Ward Block Club's effort 
to build a community center.  He stressed that the project was 
conceived of as one that would operate free of governmental control 
and answerable to the people.  The community center is complementary 
to, not in conflict with, NBPC's proposal for a People's Campaign 
Center.   Laura Alex has been appointed liaison to the Community 
Center task force.

	ENHANCED OUTREACH ACTIVITY

	Our work should be on a number of levels.  Some residents 
suffer problems even on a very basic level, e.g. light, heat and 
water.  Part of NBPC's business should be supplying help about such 
problems and educating people about their rights in that regard.  

	Beverly Marshall stressed that it takes a long time to build 
trust with people and it is important to get to know people and 
families on a personal level, to share coffee or meals with them 
rather than simply passing out flyers.


	After this discussion, certain tasks were assigned.

	Debra Key will be in charge of the People's Campaign Center 
Committee and will, as a first priority, work on identifying a site 
for it.  She, along with Xavier Hansen, Tom DeGloma, and Justin 
Boswell, each promised one month's rent toward the center.

	Justin Boswell and Paul McGee agreed to work on generating: 
(1) a flyer detailing the history and work of the People's Campaign 
for general circulation; and (2) a mission statement, both of which 
will be presented to the membership for approval at the next meeting.

	Samantha Prince and Louise Ammentorp will continue in charge 
of the youth afterschool programs which have been functioning very 
well.

	The identification and delegation of further tasks by the 
Steering Committee was approved by consensus.  It was stressed that 
such decisions need made known to the general membership at meetings 
for the purposes of (1) maintaining accountability and democratic 
control of the leadership and (2) to identify qualified people to 
perform these tasks from the many different sectors that make up the 
People's Campaign.
 
	The meeting was adjourned at 4:55 p.m.


				Respectfully submitted,
		
				FLAVIO L. KOMUVES
				General Counsel


Note: Subsequent NBPC membership meetings are on March 31; April 28; 
June 2; June 30; July 28.  All meetings commence at 2:00 p.m. sharp 
at the New Brunswick Public Library, Livingston Avenue, New Brunswick.










-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1200
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-22 13:09:32
Subject:Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

By the way, Does anybody know why Soaries isn't giving the $50,000?  
Is he waiting to see if the theater will raise a comparable amount 
from other sources?  I know that J&J pledged a bunch of cash.  I also 
know that the theater pays 'rent' to City Market or the NB Cultural 
Center, whoever they are.  This relationship might be worth 
investigating. If anybody knows anything factual, (opinions are nice) 
they should call me or the investigation committee. Paul


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@h...> wrote:
> i can't help but comment:
> 
> i am finding these versions of history pretty funny. doesn't it 
strike you 
> as questionable that the "budding youth activist" split the Campaign 
once he 
> wasn't elected to the steering committee? why is that exactly? why 
would I 
> want someone like that to be my leader?
> 
> also, not understanding why, at times, it is necessary to ally 
yourself with 
> your foe (ie. a republican) in the context of the general situation 
( a 
> democratic party machine) indicates your narrow understanding of 
political 
> development. that is the nature of tactical alliances. gaining the 
office 
> space did mountains more for the campaign than you understand. just 
like 
> raising money is a necessary task, so is making sure the practical 
elements 
> of a campaign come to pass.
> 
> ps. the clever little nicknames are annoying.
> 
> kristina
> 
> >
> >at the may'00 peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth
> >activist jason hankins was nominated by block on lock for the final
> >executive board seat. njfo ("for revolutionary democracy &
> >socialism"), fiending (as now)after "office space" (rather than
> >peoples' organization), backed the nb republican party chair dim 
liar
> >(after(!) he had challenged joe smith's election as chair to 
elected
> >board of education committee, on grounds that he is a communist.).
> >
> >hankins lost & left, with him the outreach committee 
(motorcades...),
> >and possible victory.
> >
> >rather then relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to 
enlist
> >  as republican party members for election day privileges. dim liar
> >pimped this "artificial" support to his now real position.
> >
> >rather than unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize
> >power!, it is the republicans who have seized the position of power
> >out of the "peoples'" campaign.
> >
> >the nb "left bloc" must identify itself immediately, & drive the 
right
> >from its organizations.  all imposters must be exposed and 
isolated.
> >
> >dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & back george
> >berry's call for elected resident representation.
> >
> >all eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining
> >projects residents (court hearing is 5april).
> >
> >skunk soaries must immediately stop obstructing the $500,000 
allocated
> >  by the state legislature to crossroads theater.
> >
> >protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, residence of nb republican party
> >chair dim liar.
> >
> >republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
> >revolutionaries unite! with the people.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1201
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-22 15:24:56
Subject:city council concedes to resident rep on nbha
Message:

meet 4pm, sat. to organize residents' election!
community room, bldg1, projects...


Council aims to name resident to housing panel 

               Published in the Home News Tribune 3/22/01 

               By SHARON WATERS
               STAFF WRITER

               NEW BRUNSWICK: The City Council announced last night it 
will appoint a resident to the board of commissioners of the New
               Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority when a 
current commissioner's term expires next month.

               The council plans to appoint someone living in public 
housing or using a Section 8 voucher, said council President Robert 
Recine. 

               The council has reached out to people, including Housing 
Authority officials, to get resumes of interested people and hopes to 
have
               a list of names next week, he said.

               Racine said the council wants to have at least three 
names so it can compare the candidates.

               The City Council appoints five of the commissioners, 
while the mayor selects one and the state Department of Community 
Affairs
               chooses another one.

               A federal regulation, which took effect in November 
1999, requires a public-housing resident to be on the board. There have 
been
               two chances to appoint a resident to the board since the 
law went into effect -- DCA's appointment this month of Frank Bright, a
               Republican activist, and a council appointment in April 
2000 when Chairwoman Beatrice B. Harris was reappointed.

               Asked why a resident was not chosen last April, City 
Attorney William Hamilton said, "It (the requirement) had just come to 
our
               attention. (Harris) was the chair and had been a public 
housing resident. I think there was a feeling they didn't want to 
bounce her,"
               said Hamilton.

               The resident will fill the term of Commissioner James M. 
Scott Jr., which expires on April 3. Scott won't be reappointed because 
of
               the resident requirement, not because of his performance 
as a commissioner, Recine said.

               "I have very high regard for Mr. Scott and have known 
him many years. I think he's done a great job," Recine said.

               George Berry, president of the New Brunswick Homes 
Resident Council, said he was happy with the council's plan to select a
               resident, saying it would help build a partnership 
between residents, the Housing Authority and the city. A resident 
representative
               also will provide firsthand insight and input to the 
board, Berry said. 

               Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@...

               from the Home News Tribune 

               Published: March 22, 2001








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1202
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-22 15:31:05
Subject:j&j continues its devco assault...
Message:

NEW BRUNSWICK: Devco to manage City Market 

               Published in the Home News Tribune 3/22/01 

               By SHARON WATERS
               STAFF WRITER

               NEW BRUNSWICK: The New Brunswick City Market will be 
managed and staffed by the New Brunswick Development
               Corporation, or Devco, officials said.

               City Market's board of directors unanimously approved 
the use of Devco under a two-year management agreement yesterday, said
               Christopher J. Paladino, president of Devco.

               Devco will provide "across-the-board management of the 
organization" and be paid $65,000 for the first year of the agreement, 
said
               Paladino, who also serves on City Market's executive 
committee.

               "It's a tremendous opportunity to raise the playing 
field and start having City Market work in a much more collaborative 
way with
               Devco, the (New Brunswick) Cultural Center, the 
hospitals, Rutgers (University) and all those that have a stake in 
economic
               development in the city," Paladino said.

               Devco also may provide initial, and potentially long-
term, administrative support to the Cultural Center, which is being 
reorganized,
               according to Thomas Kelso, chairman of the State Theatre 
board of trustees.

               City Market, formed in 1987, is a special improvement 
district bordered roughly by Route 18, Richmond, New, Morris and
               Kirkpatrick streets and the railroad tracks between 
Johnson Drive and the railroad station. It organizes special events and 
provides
               physical improvements, such as graffiti removal, 
landscaping and street lighting.

               City Market receives funds through an assessment tax on 
businesses in the special improvement district. Last year, City Market
               received about $400,000 from the assessments and had a 
total budget of about $485,000, said Paladino.

               By having Devco provide management services, Devco and 
City Market will no longer duplicate efforts such as trying to draw in
               more retail businesses to the city, said Paladino.

               Devco, which has a bigger staff and more experience, can 
provide financing opportunities for downtown improvements, reach
               deeper into the corporate sector for events and 
festivals, seek additional funding for facade renovations and take a 
hard look at the
               infrastructure of the downtown, Paladino said.

               City Market previously had two full-time employees and 
one part-time employee. After City Market's executive director, 
Claudine
               Gilloly, left in January, City Market began interviewing 
candidates to replace her, said executive committee member Greg Ritter,
               owner of George Street Camera. During the interview 
process, Devco presented its proposal, Ritter said.

               With Devco as the manager, Jim Zullo, former executive 
director of the New Brunswick Parking Authority, will serve as City
               Market's executive director, Paladino said. Zullo joined 
Devco one month ago as a vice president, he added.

               Jack Blauvelt, City Market's chairman, said the 
organization will save about $30,000 to $40,000 on salaries alone this 
year by using
               Devco.

               Ritter and another board member, Larry Daniels, general 
manager of the Hyatt Regency New Brunswick, noted City Market and
               Devco have similar missions.

               "Since Devco and City Market always worked hand-in-hand, 
it made sense," said Ritter. "They work toward the same goal, to
               rebuild and develop downtown New Brunswick." 

               Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@...

               from the Home News Tribune 

               Published: March 22, 2001








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1203
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-22 15:39:47
Subject:nb community center task force meeting, 2nd ward block club:
Message:

116 livingston ave
senior bldg lounge
contact cliff smith 214.8828
cliffsmith69@...








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1204
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-22 15:48:53
Subject:Re: [nbpc] city council concedes to resident rep on nbha
Message:

This is definitely a possitive development, and a credit to BOL/SWORD & 
residents like George Berry for turning up the heat on this issue, while 
simultaneously & correctly pointing out that the People's Campaign handed 
the only siezure of political power to the republicans (first Republican 
Party seat, which enabled Housing Authority position)...PC needs to join 
BOL/SWORD in supporting George Berry's effort to elect a rep from the 
community...LEFT BLOC city wide could force this issue down the Machine's 
throat & make them accept the people's choice for representation---THAT 
would be the first real crack in the anti-democratic armor of the local 
Machine, and the first real political power siezed by the people of New 
Brunswick!

(by the way, Joe, since you keep asking-- don't expect a position from NJFO 
on many of these issues anytime soon, as there isn't much agreement 
internally...)

-Matthew


----Original Message Follows----
From: cliffsmith69@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] city council concedes to resident rep on nbha
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:24:56 -0000

meet 4pm, sat. to organize residents' election!
community room, bldg1, projects...


Council aims to name resident to housing panel

                Published in the Home News Tribune 3/22/01

                By SHARON WATERS
                STAFF WRITER

                NEW BRUNSWICK: The City Council announced last night it
will appoint a resident to the board of commissioners of the New
                Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority when a
current commissioner's term expires next month.

                The council plans to appoint someone living in public
housing or using a Section 8 voucher, said council President Robert
Recine.

                The council has reached out to people, including Housing
Authority officials, to get resumes of interested people and hopes to
have
                a list of names next week, he said.

                Racine said the council wants to have at least three
names so it can compare the candidates.

                The City Council appoints five of the commissioners,
while the mayor selects one and the state Department of Community
Affairs
                chooses another one.

                A federal regulation, which took effect in November
1999, requires a public-housing resident to be on the board. There have
been
                two chances to appoint a resident to the board since the
law went into effect -- DCA's appointment this month of Frank Bright, a
                Republican activist, and a council appointment in April
2000 when Chairwoman Beatrice B. Harris was reappointed.

                Asked why a resident was not chosen last April, City
Attorney William Hamilton said, "It (the requirement) had just come to
our
                attention. (Harris) was the chair and had been a public
housing resident. I think there was a feeling they didn't want to
bounce her,"
                said Hamilton.

                The resident will fill the term of Commissioner James M.
Scott Jr., which expires on April 3. Scott won't be reappointed because
of
                the resident requirement, not because of his performance
as a commissioner, Recine said.

                "I have very high regard for Mr. Scott and have known
him many years. I think he's done a great job," Recine said.

                George Berry, president of the New Brunswick Homes
Resident Council, said he was happy with the council's plan to select a
                resident, saying it would help build a partnership
between residents, the Housing Authority and the city. A resident
representative
                also will provide firsthand insight and input to the
board, Berry said.

                Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@...

                from the Home News Tribune

                Published: March 22, 2001




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1205
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-22 16:01:02
Subject:Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

not $50G's, $500G's.
which also holds up another $100G's in emergency funds also awaiting 
Sec. of State Soaries' fund release.

J&J "donated" $95G's to cover rent & utilities for the year.

Crossroads' outstanding debt is $1.8 mil. the pending $600,000 is 
significant to Crossroads' revival.

Soaries claims to be waiting the new fiscal year.  He is really 
blackmailing Crossroads' administration to leverage in his Republican 
front 1st Baptist Development Corporation & Assoc.

Crossroads is currently begging former season ticket holders to donate 
their 2000-2001 ticket costs to the revival effort, and is planning a 
series of fundraising efforts, including a Saturday afternoon poetry 
series, to which they claim to be bringing Baraka, in May.

Also, on Sat. nite, March 31, a "Black Tie Optional" $75/per gala at 
which the NB Peoples' Community Arts Mural Project will be distributing 
literature demanding Soaries stop putting Republican politics before 
Community Theater.  All are invited to join us.  Contact Tamara Dahan & 
Maura Carey 729.0390 or mauracarey@...

A meeting to Defend Crossroads (Community) Theater & Promote Local Arts 
is scheduled for 1pm, Sunday, 1 April.

CityMarket is now an extension of DevCo.  See today's HomeNewsTribune.
I think the State Theater, actually, owns Crossroads' building...

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., shorepaulie@h... wrote:
> By the way, Does anybody know why Soaries isn't giving the $50,000?  
> Is he waiting to see if the theater will raise a comparable amount 
> from other sources?  I know that J&J pledged a bunch of cash.  I also 
> know that the theater pays 'rent' to City Market or the NB Cultural 
> Center, whoever they are.  This relationship might be worth 
> investigating. If anybody knows anything factual, (opinions are nice) 
> they should call me or the investigation committee. Paul
> 
> 
> --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@h...> wrote:
> > i can't help but comment:
> > 
> > i am finding these versions of history pretty funny. doesn't it 
> strike you 
> > as questionable that the "budding youth activist" split the Campaign 
> once he 
> > wasn't elected to the steering committee? why is that exactly? why 
> would I 
> > want someone like that to be my leader?
> > 
> > also, not understanding why, at times, it is necessary to ally 
> yourself with 
> > your foe (ie. a republican) in the context of the general situation 
> ( a 
> > democratic party machine) indicates your narrow understanding of 
> political 
> > development. that is the nature of tactical alliances. gaining the 
> office 
> > space did mountains more for the campaign than you understand. just 
> like 
> > raising money is a necessary task, so is making sure the practical 
> elements 
> > of a campaign come to pass.
> > 
> > ps. the clever little nicknames are annoying.
> > 
> > kristina
> > 
> > >
> > >at the may'00 peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth
> > >activist jason hankins was nominated by block on lock for the final
> > >executive board seat. njfo ("for revolutionary democracy &
> > >socialism"), fiending (as now)after "office space" (rather than
> > >peoples' organization), backed the nb republican party chair dim 
> liar
> > >(after(!) he had challenged joe smith's election as chair to 
> elected
> > >board of education committee, on grounds that he is a communist.).
> > >
> > >hankins lost & left, with him the outreach committee 
> (motorcades...),
> > >and possible victory.
> > >
> > >rather then relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to 
> enlist
> > >  as republican party members for election day privileges. dim liar
> > >pimped this "artificial" support to his now real position.
> > >
> > >rather than unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize
> > >power!, it is the republicans who have seized the position of power
> > >out of the "peoples'" campaign.
> > >
> > >the nb "left bloc" must identify itself immediately, & drive the 
> right
> > >from its organizations.  all imposters must be exposed and 
> isolated.
> > >
> > >dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & back george
> > >berry's call for elected resident representation.
> > >
> > >all eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining
> > >projects residents (court hearing is 5april).
> > >
> > >skunk soaries must immediately stop obstructing the $500,000 
> allocated
> > >  by the state legislature to crossroads theater.
> > >
> > >protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, residence of nb republican party
> > >chair dim liar.
> > >
> > >republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
> > >revolutionaries unite! with the people.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1206
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-22 16:06:08
Subject:Re: [nbpc] city council concedes to resident rep on nbha
Message:

excellent work, matt!
again- organizing mtg to elect resident rep to nbha is 4pm, sat., 
community room, bldg1, projects.

& we are eager to begin production of u&s.
meeting has been penciled for sun. nite. contact keith...


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> This is definitely a possitive development, and a credit to BOL/SWORD & 
> residents like George Berry for turning up the heat on this issue, while 
> simultaneously & correctly pointing out that the People's Campaign handed 
> the only siezure of political power to the republicans (first Republican 
> Party seat, which enabled Housing Authority position)...PC needs to join 
> BOL/SWORD in supporting George Berry's effort to elect a rep from the 
> community...LEFT BLOC city wide could force this issue down the Machine's 
> throat & make them accept the people's choice for representation---THAT 
> would be the first real crack in the anti-democratic armor of the local 
> Machine, and the first real political power siezed by the people of New 
> Brunswick!
> 
> (by the way, Joe, since you keep asking-- don't expect a position from NJFO 
> on many of these issues anytime soon, as there isn't much agreement 
> internally...)
> 
> -Matthew
> 
> 
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: cliffsmith69@h...
> Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> Subject: [nbpc] city council concedes to resident rep on nbha
> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:24:56 -0000
> 
> meet 4pm, sat. to organize residents' election!
> community room, bldg1, projects...
> 
> 
> Council aims to name resident to housing panel
> 
>                 Published in the Home News Tribune 3/22/01
> 
>                 By SHARON WATERS
>                 STAFF WRITER
> 
>                 NEW BRUNSWICK: The City Council announced last night it
> will appoint a resident to the board of commissioners of the New
>                 Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority when a
> current commissioner's term expires next month.
> 
>                 The council plans to appoint someone living in public
> housing or using a Section 8 voucher, said council President Robert
> Recine.
> 
>                 The council has reached out to people, including Housing
> Authority officials, to get resumes of interested people and hopes to
> have
>                 a list of names next week, he said.
> 
>                 Racine said the council wants to have at least three
> names so it can compare the candidates.
> 
>                 The City Council appoints five of the commissioners,
> while the mayor selects one and the state Department of Community
> Affairs
>                 chooses another one.
> 
>                 A federal regulation, which took effect in November
> 1999, requires a public-housing resident to be on the board. There have
> been
>                 two chances to appoint a resident to the board since the
> law went into effect -- DCA's appointment this month of Frank Bright, a
>                 Republican activist, and a council appointment in April
> 2000 when Chairwoman Beatrice B. Harris was reappointed.
> 
>                 Asked why a resident was not chosen last April, City
> Attorney William Hamilton said, "It (the requirement) had just come to
> our
>                 attention. (Harris) was the chair and had been a public
> housing resident. I think there was a feeling they didn't want to
> bounce her,"
>                 said Hamilton.
> 
>                 The resident will fill the term of Commissioner James M.
> Scott Jr., which expires on April 3. Scott won't be reappointed because
> of
>                 the resident requirement, not because of his performance
> as a commissioner, Recine said.
> 
>                 "I have very high regard for Mr. Scott and have known
> him many years. I think he's done a great job," Recine said.
> 
>                 George Berry, president of the New Brunswick Homes
> Resident Council, said he was happy with the council's plan to select a
>                 resident, saying it would help build a partnership
> between residents, the Housing Authority and the city. A resident
> representative
>                 also will provide firsthand insight and input to the
> board, Berry said.
> 
>                 Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
> 
>                 from the Home News Tribune
> 
>                 Published: March 22, 2001
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> 
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
> nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1207
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-22 22:37:41
Subject:Re: [nbpc] city council concedes to resident rep on nbha
Message:

i appreciate your response to my questions. though it still remains. good 
plug for the meeting, it must be embraced!

joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] city council concedes to resident rep on nbha
>Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:48:53
>
>This is definitely a possitive development, and a credit to BOL/SWORD &
>residents like George Berry for turning up the heat on this issue, while
>simultaneously & correctly pointing out that the People's Campaign handed
>the only siezure of political power to the republicans (first Republican
>Party seat, which enabled Housing Authority position)...PC needs to join
>BOL/SWORD in supporting George Berry's effort to elect a rep from the
>community...LEFT BLOC city wide could force this issue down the Machine's
>throat & make them accept the people's choice for representation---THAT
>would be the first real crack in the anti-democratic armor of the local
>Machine, and the first real political power siezed by the people of New
>Brunswick!
>
>(by the way, Joe, since you keep asking-- don't expect a position from NJFO
>on many of these issues anytime soon, as there isn't much agreement
>internally...)
>
>-Matthew
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: cliffsmith69@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] city council concedes to resident rep on nbha
>Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:24:56 -0000
>
>meet 4pm, sat. to organize residents' election!
>community room, bldg1, projects...
>
>
>Council aims to name resident to housing panel
>
>                 Published in the Home News Tribune 3/22/01
>
>                 By SHARON WATERS
>                 STAFF WRITER
>
>                 NEW BRUNSWICK: The City Council announced last night it
>will appoint a resident to the board of commissioners of the New
>                 Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority when a
>current commissioner's term expires next month.
>
>                 The council plans to appoint someone living in public
>housing or using a Section 8 voucher, said council President Robert
>Recine.
>
>                 The council has reached out to people, including Housing
>Authority officials, to get resumes of interested people and hopes to
>have
>                 a list of names next week, he said.
>
>                 Racine said the council wants to have at least three
>names so it can compare the candidates.
>
>                 The City Council appoints five of the commissioners,
>while the mayor selects one and the state Department of Community
>Affairs
>                 chooses another one.
>
>                 A federal regulation, which took effect in November
>1999, requires a public-housing resident to be on the board. There have
>been
>                 two chances to appoint a resident to the board since the
>law went into effect -- DCA's appointment this month of Frank Bright, a
>                 Republican activist, and a council appointment in April
>2000 when Chairwoman Beatrice B. Harris was reappointed.
>
>                 Asked why a resident was not chosen last April, City
>Attorney William Hamilton said, "It (the requirement) had just come to
>our
>                 attention. (Harris) was the chair and had been a public
>housing resident. I think there was a feeling they didn't want to
>bounce her,"
>                 said Hamilton.
>
>                 The resident will fill the term of Commissioner James M.
>Scott Jr., which expires on April 3. Scott won't be reappointed because
>of
>                 the resident requirement, not because of his performance
>as a commissioner, Recine said.
>
>                 "I have very high regard for Mr. Scott and have known
>him many years. I think he's done a great job," Recine said.
>
>                 George Berry, president of the New Brunswick Homes
>Resident Council, said he was happy with the council's plan to select a
>                 resident, saying it would help build a partnership
>between residents, the Housing Authority and the city. A resident
>representative
>                 also will provide firsthand insight and input to the
>board, Berry said.
>
>                 Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@...
>
>                 from the Home News Tribune
>
>                 Published: March 22, 2001
>
>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1208
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-22 22:46:40
Subject:Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

investigator, you need to get up with tami/maura they have things in the 
works. 732.729.0390 tami 732.729.7471 maura

tamaradahan@... mauracarey@...

joe


>From: shorepaulie@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the 
>right!
>Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:09:32 -0000
>
>By the way, Does anybody know why Soaries isn't giving the $50,000?
>Is he waiting to see if the theater will raise a comparable amount
>from other sources?  I know that J&J pledged a bunch of cash.  I also
>know that the theater pays 'rent' to City Market or the NB Cultural
>Center, whoever they are.  This relationship might be worth
>investigating. If anybody knows anything factual, (opinions are nice)
>they should call me or the investigation committee. Paul
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@h...> wrote:
> > i can't help but comment:
> >
> > i am finding these versions of history pretty funny. doesn't it
>strike you
> > as questionable that the "budding youth activist" split the Campaign
>once he
> > wasn't elected to the steering committee? why is that exactly? why
>would I
> > want someone like that to be my leader?
> >
> > also, not understanding why, at times, it is necessary to ally
>yourself with
> > your foe (ie. a republican) in the context of the general situation
>( a
> > democratic party machine) indicates your narrow understanding of
>political
> > development. that is the nature of tactical alliances. gaining the
>office
> > space did mountains more for the campaign than you understand. just
>like
> > raising money is a necessary task, so is making sure the practical
>elements
> > of a campaign come to pass.
> >
> > ps. the clever little nicknames are annoying.
> >
> > kristina
> >
> > >
> > >at the may'00 peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth
> > >activist jason hankins was nominated by block on lock for the final
> > >executive board seat. njfo ("for revolutionary democracy &
> > >socialism"), fiending (as now)after "office space" (rather than
> > >peoples' organization), backed the nb republican party chair dim
>liar
> > >(after(!) he had challenged joe smith's election as chair to
>elected
> > >board of education committee, on grounds that he is a communist.).
> > >
> > >hankins lost & left, with him the outreach committee
>(motorcades...),
> > >and possible victory.
> > >
> > >rather then relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to
>enlist
> > >  as republican party members for election day privileges. dim liar
> > >pimped this "artificial" support to his now real position.
> > >
> > >rather than unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize
> > >power!, it is the republicans who have seized the position of power
> > >out of the "peoples'" campaign.
> > >
> > >the nb "left bloc" must identify itself immediately, & drive the
>right
> > >from its organizations.  all imposters must be exposed and
>isolated.
> > >
> > >dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & back george
> > >berry's call for elected resident representation.
> > >
> > >all eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining
> > >projects residents (court hearing is 5april).
> > >
> > >skunk soaries must immediately stop obstructing the $500,000
>allocated
> > >  by the state legislature to crossroads theater.
> > >
> > >protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, residence of nb republican party
> > >chair dim liar.
> > >
> > >republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
> > >revolutionaries unite! with the people.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1209
Sender:"Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-22 23:05:59
Subject:Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

Are you trying to say that Jason had some kind of ulterior motives for 
wanting to be a part of the steering committee?  What could he possibly gain 
from this, except by actively fighting for control of his  own community?  
Was he angling for a republican foothold in NB? The  People's Campaign 
should be an accurate reflection of the community that it is trying to 
represent. Is Frank a better representative of the people in NB than Jason, 
or was/is the office space that did "mountains more for the campaign" more 
important than what the campaign was supposed to be about- Community 
Control.  Maybe you should reclarify what the purpose of the PC is and who 
it is to consist of. People from the community who are fighting for control 
over their community or republicans who can get funds and office spaces?  
You sold Jason out for $ and an office and he knows it.  That's why he 
"split" from the campaign.  But what really happened is the campaign split 
from him. After that, to imply that Jason was angling for this position for 
some kind of personal gain is disgusting.  Take that argument to the streets 
and off this board and see how far you get.  The only person I see having 
gained is Frank with his stolen appointment on the housing authority.  The 
people's campaign definitely didn't gain anything unless you consider 
helping to put your enemy in a position of power or turning your back on NB 
youth to be gains. But maybe I just don't understand what "mountains" the 
office did for the campaign and you'd care to explain. Otherwise you should 
"help but comment".

                                      Tamara


>From: "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the 
>right!
>Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:52:14
>
>i can't help but comment:
>
>i am finding these versions of history pretty funny. doesn't it strike you
>as questionable that the "budding youth activist" split the Campaign once 
>he
>wasn't elected to the steering committee? why is that exactly? why would I
>want someone like that to be my leader?
>
>also, not understanding why, at times, it is necessary to ally yourself 
>with
>your foe (ie. a republican) in the context of the general situation ( a
>democratic party machine) indicates your narrow understanding of political
>development. that is the nature of tactical alliances. gaining the office
>space did mountains more for the campaign than you understand. just like
>raising money is a necessary task, so is making sure the practical elements
>of a campaign come to pass.
>
>ps. the clever little nicknames are annoying.
>
>kristina
>
> >
> >at the may'00 peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth
> >activist jason hankins was nominated by block on lock for the final
> >executive board seat. njfo ("for revolutionary democracy &
> >socialism"), fiending (as now)after "office space" (rather than
> >peoples' organization), backed the nb republican party chair dim liar
> >(after(!) he had challenged joe smith's election as chair to elected
> >board of education committee, on grounds that he is a communist.).
> >
> >hankins lost & left, with him the outreach committee (motorcades...),
> >and possible victory.
> >
> >rather then relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to enlist
> >  as republican party members for election day privileges. dim liar
> >pimped this "artificial" support to his now real position.
> >
> >rather than unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize
> >power!, it is the republicans who have seized the position of power
> >out of the "peoples'" campaign.
> >
> >the nb "left bloc" must identify itself immediately, & drive the right
> >from its organizations.  all imposters must be exposed and isolated.
> >
> >dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & back george
> >berry's call for elected resident representation.
> >
> >all eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining
> >projects residents (court hearing is 5april).
> >
> >skunk soaries must immediately stop obstructing the $500,000 allocated
> >  by the state legislature to crossroads theater.
> >
> >protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, residence of nb republican party
> >chair dim liar.
> >
> >republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
> >revolutionaries unite! with the people.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
What are you trying to say? That Jason had some kind of ulterior motives for 
wanting to be part of the steering committee?  What could he have to gain 
from it, besides getting actively involved in his community trying to bring 
about
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1210
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-23 10:21:39
Subject:NJ FOUNDATION FOR OPEN GOVERNMENT
Message:

On Saturday, April 21, 9AM to 2PM, the NJ Foundation for Open 
Government
(NJFOG) will be sponsoring a program to discuss NJs current problems 
over
access to public records.

"Frosty" Landon, president of the National Freedom of Information 
Coalition
and head of the Virginia Freedom of Information Group, and state 
Senator
Byron Baer (D-Bergen), one of the sponsors of NJs public access bill 
before
the Senate, will be featured as key speakers for this event.

NJFOG, a coalition of journalist and public interest groups, was 
recently
formed as a non-profit organization to advocate for better citizen 
access to
its government.

The program will be held at the Rutgers/Eagleton Institute in New 
Brunswick.
Only 60 seats will be available.  Reservations should be made early.
Tickets will be $15 if reserved, $20 at the door.

We appreciate your contacting your memberships to advise them of this
program.  Further details will be provided shortly.  If you have any
questions or wish to make early reservations, please contact:

Patricia Nelson
NJFOG
732-545-0304
GlendasHouse@... 

If you would like to learn more about the NJ Foundation for Open 
Government,
please send requests for further information to:

 NJ Foundation for Open Government
 236 Carol Rd
 N Plainfield NJ 07062

Or you may contact:

 Joe Tyrrell
President
908-429-9928
Jtyrrell@... 








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1211
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-23 12:05:54
Subject:letter to editor
Message:

"Blacks are genetically inferior (to whites)" and that is why they
are not allowed to flourish at Rutgers. And why there are more black
youth in prison than college
      -Rutgers President ~ Francis Nazi Lawrence

... and yet I rise!

We are joined with the coalition for Justice, initiated by the
People's Organization for Progress, for a March on Trenton May 16,
against racist profiling and police brutality.  We as students at
Rutgers and people who live in New Brunswick need not look outside
our own communities to notice racist profiling. (With just last week
some male/white supremacist tarnished the Cook/Douglas campus and
with university president Fascist Fran won't even provide a proper
facility for these women.)

Student organizations are critical in the broad fight against
racism/national oppression, and are particularly needed to make this
march successful.  Locally has been formed the Committee to Defeat
Racist Profiling and we are in need of support.

We are looking for organizational sponsors for the march, activists
to help educate/organize/mobilize students & into the New Brunswick
community which needs your help. Also to solicit support from
student governments & newspapers around all campuses. Finally to
develop statewide student coalitions to assist these community
struggles.

The trial for NB Troopers John Hogan & James Kenna, who fired 11
shots into a van of 4 unarmed Black/Latino youth in '98, is
scheduled to begin September 4. State hearings into who knew of
official racist profiling & when are happening at the present time,
with Verniero to be questioned come Tuesday. All eyes on Trenton,
where this investigation is happening.

This march, and other local activities, is our opportunity, as the
people, to add our voice & demands to the discussion. The Committee
To Defeat Racist Profiling is organizing a forum on campus for April
4 at the Paul Robeson Cultural Center and a local organizing meeting
for the march at the New Brunswick Public Library April 8.  For info
can_bush@...
Unite!

Joe Smith
1st year, University College, RU
Committee to Defeat Racist Profiling


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1212
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-23 12:32:11
Subject:Re: [nbpc] city council concedes to resident rep on nbha
Message:

OK- U&S pamphlets are in...see you this weekend...


----Original Message Follows----
From: cliffsmith69@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] city council concedes to resident rep on nbha
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:06:08 -0000

excellent work, matt!
again- organizing mtg to elect resident rep to nbha is 4pm, sat.,
community room, bldg1, projects.

& we are eager to begin production of u&s.
meeting has been penciled for sun. nite. contact keith...


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
 > This is definitely a possitive development, and a credit to BOL/SWORD &
 > residents like George Berry for turning up the heat on this issue, while
 > simultaneously & correctly pointing out that the People's Campaign handed
 > the only siezure of political power to the republicans (first Republican
 > Party seat, which enabled Housing Authority position)...PC needs to join
 > BOL/SWORD in supporting George Berry's effort to elect a rep from the
 > community...LEFT BLOC city wide could force this issue down the Machine's
 > throat & make them accept the people's choice for representation---THAT
 > would be the first real crack in the anti-democratic armor of the local
 > Machine, and the first real political power siezed by the people of New
 > Brunswick!
 >
 > (by the way, Joe, since you keep asking-- don't expect a position from 
NJFO
 > on many of these issues anytime soon, as there isn't much agreement
 > internally...)
 >
 > -Matthew
 >
 >
 > ----Original Message Follows----
 > From: cliffsmith69@h...
 > Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > Subject: [nbpc] city council concedes to resident rep on nbha
 > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:24:56 -0000
 >
 > meet 4pm, sat. to organize residents' election!
 > community room, bldg1, projects...
 >
 >
 > Council aims to name resident to housing panel
 >
 >                 Published in the Home News Tribune 3/22/01
 >
 >                 By SHARON WATERS
 >                 STAFF WRITER
 >
 >                 NEW BRUNSWICK: The City Council announced last night it
 > will appoint a resident to the board of commissioners of the New
 >                 Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority when a
 > current commissioner's term expires next month.
 >
 >                 The council plans to appoint someone living in public
 > housing or using a Section 8 voucher, said council President Robert
 > Recine.
 >
 >                 The council has reached out to people, including Housing
 > Authority officials, to get resumes of interested people and hopes to
 > have
 >                 a list of names next week, he said.
 >
 >                 Racine said the council wants to have at least three
 > names so it can compare the candidates.
 >
 >                 The City Council appoints five of the commissioners,
 > while the mayor selects one and the state Department of Community
 > Affairs
 >                 chooses another one.
 >
 >                 A federal regulation, which took effect in November
 > 1999, requires a public-housing resident to be on the board. There have
 > been
 >                 two chances to appoint a resident to the board since the
 > law went into effect -- DCA's appointment this month of Frank Bright, a
 >                 Republican activist, and a council appointment in April
 > 2000 when Chairwoman Beatrice B. Harris was reappointed.
 >
 >                 Asked why a resident was not chosen last April, City
 > Attorney William Hamilton said, "It (the requirement) had just come to
 > our
 >                 attention. (Harris) was the chair and had been a public
 > housing resident. I think there was a feeling they didn't want to
 > bounce her,"
 >                 said Hamilton.
 >
 >                 The resident will fill the term of Commissioner James M.
 > Scott Jr., which expires on April 3. Scott won't be reappointed because
 > of
 >                 the resident requirement, not because of his performance
 > as a commissioner, Recine said.
 >
 >                 "I have very high regard for Mr. Scott and have known
 > him many years. I think he's done a great job," Recine said.
 >
 >                 George Berry, president of the New Brunswick Homes
 > Resident Council, said he was happy with the council's plan to select a
 >                 resident, saying it would help build a partnership
 > between residents, the Housing Authority and the city. A resident
 > representative
 >                 also will provide firsthand insight and input to the
 > board, Berry said.
 >
 >                 Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
 >
 >                 from the Home News Tribune
 >
 >                 Published: March 22, 2001
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
 >
 > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
 >
 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1213
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-23 12:36:08
Subject:Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

no, i was not trying to insinuate that he had ulterior motives. i can't 
understand why these discussions degenerate into antagonistic accusations.


>From: "Tamara Dahan" Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com To: 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the 
>garbage can! peoples' war on the right! Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 04:05:59 
>-0000
>
>Are you trying to say that Jason had some kind of ulterior motives for 
>wanting to be a part of the steering committee? What could he possibly gain 
>from this, except by actively fighting for control of his own community? 
>Was he angling for a republican foothold in NB? The People's Campaign 
>should be an accurate reflection of the community that it is trying to 
>represent. Is Frank a better representative of the people in NB than Jason, 
>or was/is the office space that did "mountains more for the campaign" more 
>important than what the campaign was supposed to be about- Community 
>Control. Maybe you should reclarify what the purpose of the PC is and who 
>it is to consist of. People from the community who are fighting for control 
>over their community or republicans who can get funds and office spaces? 
>You sold Jason out for $ and an office and he knows it. That's why he 
>"split" from the campaign. But what really happened is the campaign split 
>from him. After that, to imply that Jason was angling for this position for 
>some kind of personal gain is disgusting. Take that argument to the streets 
>and off this board and see how far you get. The only person I see having 
>gained is Frank with his stolen appointment on the housing authority. The 
>people's campaign definitely didn't gain anything unless you consider 
>helping to put your enemy in a position of power or turning your back on NB 
>youth to be gains. But maybe I just don't understand what "mountains" the 
>office did for the campaign and you'd care to explain. Otherwise you should 
>"help but comment".
>
>Tamara
>
>
> >From: "kristina bas" >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com >To: 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the 
>garbage can! peoples' war on the >right! >Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:52:14 > 
> >i can't help but comment: > >i am finding these versions of history 
>pretty funny. doesn't it strike you >as questionable that the "budding 
>youth activist" split the Campaign once >he >wasn't elected to the steering 
>committee? why is that exactly? why would I >want someone like that to be 
>my leader? > >also, not understanding why, at times, it is necessary to 
>ally yourself >with >your foe (ie. a republican) in the context of the 
>general situation ( a >democratic party machine) indicates your narrow 
>understanding of political >development. that is the nature of tactical 
>alliances. gaining the office >space did mountains more for the campaign 
>than you understand. just like >raising money is a necessary task, so is 
>making sure the practical elements >of a campaign come to pass. > >ps. the 
>clever little nicknames are annoying. > >kristina > > > > >at the may'00 
>peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth > >activist jason hankins 
>was nominated by block on lock for the final > >executive board seat. njfo 
>("for revolutionary democracy & > >socialism"), fiending (as now)after 
>"office space" (rather than > >peoples' organization), backed the nb 
>republican party chair dim liar > >(after(!) he had challenged joe smith's 
>election as chair to elected > >board of education committee, on grounds 
>that he is a communist.). > > > >hankins lost & left, with him the outreach 
>committee (motorcades...), > >and possible victory. > > > >rather then 
>relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to enlist > > as 
>republican party members for election day privileges. dim liar > >pimped 
>this "artificial" support to his now real position. > > > >rather than 
>unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize > >power!, it is the 
>republicans who have seized the position of power > >out of the "peoples'" 
>campaign. > > > >the nb "left bloc" must identify itself immediately, & 
>drive the right > >from its organizations. all imposters must be exposed 
>and isolated. > > > >dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & 
>back george > >berry's call for elected resident representation. > > > >all 
>eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining > >projects 
>residents (court hearing is 5april). > > > >skunk soaries must immediately 
>stop obstructing the $500,000 allocated > > by the state legislature to 
>crossroads theater. > > > >protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, residence of 
>nb republican party > >chair dim liar. > > > >republicans in the garbage 
>can! peoples' war on the right! > >revolutionaries unite! with the people. 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> >_________________________________________________________________ >Get 
>your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > What are 
>you trying to say? That Jason had some kind of ulterior motives for wanting 
>to be part of the steering committee? What could he have to gain from it, 
>besides getting actively involved in his community trying to bring about 
>_________________________________________________________________ Get your 
>FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1214
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-23 12:43:56
Subject:REMINDER: forum on Monday
Message:

FREE DISCUSSION FORUM THIS MONDAY, MARCH 26TH, DOUGLASS STUDENT CENTER

Charitable Choice or
	Compassionate �Convert�icism??

On January 29, 2001, G.W. Bush announced the creation of the first federal 
office dedicated to the �integration of religious groups into federally 
financed social services� (NY Times, 1/30/01).

What are the origins of the "charitable choice"? How is it linked to 
prominent (and undercover) right-wing ideologues like John Ashcroft, Tommy 
Thompson, and Charles Murray (of the 'Bell Curve' fame)? What is its 
relationship to workfare? What does this mean for the principle of 
separation between church and state?

AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY

What are we going to do about it???

Join us in for an interactive discussion
break down the myths and
examine the truth behind �charitable choice�
and the latest right-wing attack on democracy

with a presentation by Kristina Bas, NJFO member and former Rutgers student 
activist

Monday, March 26, 2001 - 8 pm
Faculty Dining Room in the Douglass Cafe
Douglass College Center
FREE!

Sponsored by:
Women's Defense Coalition (WDC), the Caellian,
and the New Jersey Freedom Organization (NJFO)

for more info email: audreya@...
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1215
Sender:Jeremy Gross <jagross@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-23 14:08:14
Subject:Re: [njfo] REMINDER: forum on Monday
Message:

Hi,

Sounds cool.  Just be careful to remember that it's as much an attack on
religion as it is an attack on the welfare state.  The "religion =
conservative = bad" vs. "secular = liberal = good" schtick only plays into
the hands of far right 'culture wars' ideologues, ultimately.  Not that
I'm personally what you'd call a man of faith.  

Have you looked at Marvin Olasky's work?  If not, he's much more central
to the plan than, say, Charles Murray.  (I don't know if Olasky also works
for the Manhattan Institute -- I thought he worked with the American
Enterprise Institute, but I could be wrong).  I know at least he's the
person who came up with the term 'compassionate conservatism'.

Later,  

Jeremy    


On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, kristina bas wrote:

> FREE DISCUSSION FORUM THIS MONDAY, MARCH 26TH, DOUGLASS STUDENT CENTER
> 
> Charitable Choice or
> 	Compassionate Converticism??
> 
> On January 29, 2001, G.W. Bush announced the creation of the first federal 
> office dedicated to the integration of religious groups into federally 
> financed social services (NY Times, 1/30/01).
> 
> What are the origins of the "charitable choice"? How is it linked to 
> prominent (and undercover) right-wing ideologues like John Ashcroft, Tommy 
> Thompson, and Charles Murray (of the 'Bell Curve' fame)? What is its 
> relationship to workfare? What does this mean for the principle of 
> separation between church and state?
> 
> AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY
> 
> What are we going to do about it???
> 
> Join us in for an interactive discussion
> break down the myths and
> examine the truth behind charitable choice
> and the latest right-wing attack on democracy
> 
> with a presentation by Kristina Bas, NJFO member and former Rutgers student 
> activist
> 
> Monday, March 26, 2001 - 8 pm
> Faculty Dining Room in the Douglass Cafe
> Douglass College Center
> FREE!
> 
> Sponsored by:
> Women's Defense Coalition (WDC), the Caellian,
> and the New Jersey Freedom Organization (NJFO)
> 
> for more info email: audreya@...
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: njfo-unsubscribe@eGroups.com 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1216
Sender:xavier.hansen@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-23 15:10:44
Subject:PEOPLE'S CENTER MEETING
Message:

Hi all,

The People's Center Committee will meet this coming 

TUESDAY, 3/27/01 at 9PM
95 Baldwin Street

Anyone interested is encouraged to come.
(If you need a ride, call Xavier at 735-1342)

As we decided at the People's Campaign's last General 
Meeting (following Debra Key''s proposal), we will begin 
planning for the opening of a People's Campaign Center 
for Culture and Democracy to serve as a headquarters for 
grassroots political activism and community cultural 
activities in New Brunswick. Among other points, we will 
focus on: 

-Finding potential sites

-Gathering resources and volunteers

-Raising necessary funds

-Promoting the plan for the People's Center throughout 
the New Brunswick community.

Hope to see you there.

In unity, 

Xavier






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1217
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-23 15:40:32
Subject:Re: [nbpc] PEOPLE'S CENTER MEETING
Message:

1st we shd state that there is no place within the peoples' democratic
united front against imperialism for republicans.

2nd we should recognize that petty bourgeois opportunism confused
(denied) the differences between the democrats & republicans in the
presidential election, resulting in the imperialists' best candidate
(Bush2) seizing power.  A defeat for the people, at the hands of
"progressives".  The road to hell is paved w/ good intentions.

Locally, we must acknowledge that the Peoples' Campaign's opportunism
confused (ignored) the difference between the democrats & republicans
in the council election, resulting in the imperialists' best candidate
(FBushNB)seizing power.  A defeat for the people, at the hands of
"progressives".

The Peoples' Campaign/ NJFO ("for revolutionary democracy &
socialism"), take no responsibility for this.  Instead, hurl insults
at their critics.

The PC/NJFO puts forward the position that the peoples' primary enemy
in New Brunswick is the local Democratic political machine.  This view
is devoid of any class analysis, regardless the claims to marxism of
its defenders.  The Republican polical machine puts forward the EXACT
SAME POSITION, as it does nationally.

The Republican position is that the Democrats are corrupt &
inefficient.  Gov't oversight, review, open books, anti-corruption,
know yr rights, memorials(MLK...), fairness, "equality",
anti-brutality &c., all fit within the Republican (stated) program as
against the Democrats. In this way, the Republicans manipulate popular
dicontent with Democratic imperial sloppiness (Clinton, TedKennedy,
Cahill...), to replace w/ their more streamlined, "compassionate"
corporationism. They're not here to tear down the political machine,
just to do better.

The critics on the right do not fear abstract reformism. The
Republicans put Nadir in their anti-Gore ads!

The Republicans also put the Peoples' Campaign in their anti-Cahill
progam.  Because the PC made no anti-imperialist, clear, working-class
(peoples') position.  Only Seize Power From Cahill! "Community" is
ambiguous. Bush promotes the "Peoples' Budget"!  Republicans were
embraced into the highest positions of the PC, boosting their minority
position in NB. They & J&J both are eager to oust the clumsy
Democrats.

NB Republican Party Chair FB played the PC well.  His anti-Marxist,
anti-worker position was open & clear.  Yet he maintains official good
standing in the PC (certain individual bad feelings aside).  His most
public defenders come from w/in the PC at its highest levels, from its
most respected leaders, who themselves REGISTERED AS REPUBLICANS!
Why? to chase "office dreams", instead of peoples' organization.

The PC/NJFO minimizes (criminally) the relationship of the Republican
Secratary of State (DS) to the people of NJ & NB. DS is a fascist
operative.  His entire role is to cover racist profiling brutality,
the open, state terror of imperialist dictatorship.  Regardless of his
"religious" trappings (speaking of "clerical obscurantism" & "missing
Deforest for the trees"!), any affiliation to him is political, and
especially so when that affiliation comes from another political
figure, like an area council candidate!  Where is the demand that DS
release the $500,000 appropriated by the state legislature to
Crossroads Theater?  Where the demand that DS retract his official
defense of Attorney General (now SCJustice!) Peter ("racist profiling
didn't exist before 4/'98") Verniero?

DS' love-fest w/ Bush2 & DiFransesco last week is testament to local
Republican insurgency.  & responsibility falls squarely on the PC
"Republican Revolution".

Peoples' war on the right!  We also "zero in", curtis.
Go Frank Go Frank (& his Republican defenders) in the garbage can!

posted by joe
writin by cliff


>From: xavier.hansen@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] PEOPLE'S CENTER MEETING
>Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 20:10:44 +0000
>
>Hi all,
>
>The People's Center Committee will meet this coming
>
>TUESDAY, 3/27/01 at 9PM
>95 Baldwin Street
>
>Anyone interested is encouraged to come.
>(If you need a ride, call Xavier at 735-1342)
>
>As we decided at the People's Campaign's last General
>Meeting (following Debra Key''s proposal), we will begin
>planning for the opening of a People's Campaign Center
>for Culture and Democracy to serve as a headquarters for
>grassroots political activism and community cultural
>activities in New Brunswick. Among other points, we will
>focus on:
>
>-Finding potential sites
>
>-Gathering resources and volunteers
>
>-Raising necessary funds
>
>-Promoting the plan for the People's Center throughout
>the New Brunswick community.
>
>Hope to see you there.
>
>In unity,
>
>Xavier

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1218
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-23 16:17:56
Subject:Re: [nbpc] city council concedes to resident rep on nbha
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> This is definitely a possitive development, and a credit to 
BOL/SWORD & 
> residents like George Berry for turning up the heat on this issue, 
while 
> simultaneously & correctly pointing out that the People's Campaign 
handed 
> the only siezure of political power to the republicans (first 
Republican 
> Party seat, which enabled Housing Authority position)...PC needs to 
join 
> BOL/SWORD in supporting George Berry's effort to elect a rep from 
the 
> community...LEFT BLOC city wide could force this issue down the 
Machine's 
> throat & make them accept the people's choice for 
representation---THAT 
> would be the first real crack in the anti-democratic armor of the 
local 
> Machine, and the first real political power siezed by the people of 
New 
> Brunswick!
> 
> (by the way, Joe, since you keep asking-- don't expect a position 
from NJFO 
> on many of these issues anytime soon, as there isn't much agreement 
> internally...)
> 
> -Matthew
> 
> 
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: cliffsmith69@h...
> Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> Subject: [nbpc] city council concedes to resident rep on nbha
> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:24:56 -0000
> 
> meet 4pm, sat. to organize residents' election!
> community room, bldg1, projects...
> 
> 
> Council aims to name resident to housing panel
> 
>                 Published in the Home News Tribune 3/22/01
> 
>                 By SHARON WATERS
>                 STAFF WRITER
> 
>                 NEW BRUNSWICK: The City Council announced last night 
it
> will appoint a resident to the board of commissioners of the New
>                 Brunswick Housing & Redevelopment Authority when a
> current commissioner's term expires next month.
> 
>                 The council plans to appoint someone living in 
public
> housing or using a Section 8 voucher, said council President Robert
> Recine.
> 
>                 The council has reached out to people, including 
Housing
> Authority officials, to get resumes of interested people and hopes 
to
> have
>                 a list of names next week, he said.
> 
>                 Racine said the council wants to have at least three
> names so it can compare the candidates.
> 
>                 The City Council appoints five of the commissioners,
> while the mayor selects one and the state Department of Community
> Affairs
>                 chooses another one.
> 
>                 A federal regulation, which took effect in November
> 1999, requires a public-housing resident to be on the board. There 
have
> been
>                 two chances to appoint a resident to the board since 
the
> law went into effect -- DCA's appointment this month of Frank 
Bright, a
>                 Republican activist, and a council appointment in 
April
> 2000 when Chairwoman Beatrice B. Harris was reappointed.
> 
>                 Asked why a resident was not chosen last April, City
> Attorney William Hamilton said, "It (the requirement) had just come 
to
> our
>                 attention. (Harris) was the chair and had been a 
public
> housing resident. I think there was a feeling they didn't want to
> bounce her,"
>                 said Hamilton.
> 
>                 The resident will fill the term of Commissioner 
James M.
> Scott Jr., which expires on April 3. Scott won't be reappointed 
because
> of
>                 the resident requirement, not because of his 
performance
> as a commissioner, Recine said.
> 
>                 "I have very high regard for Mr. Scott and have 
known
> him many years. I think he's done a great job," Recine said.
> 
>                 George Berry, president of the New Brunswick Homes
> Resident Council, said he was happy with the council's plan to 
select a
>                 resident, saying it would help build a partnership
> between residents, the Housing Authority and the city. A resident
> representative
>                 also will provide firsthand insight and input to the
> board, Berry said.
> 
>                 Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@t...
> 
>                 from the Home News Tribune
> 
>                 Published: March 22, 2001
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> 
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
> nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1219
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-23 16:34:23
Subject:Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

I think Jason's not on this listserv speaking for himself because this 
list and njfo list are irrelevant soap boxes for dogmatic marxists who 
are determined not to make allies with anyone.  It's a damn shame 
what's happened to this list, and if you want one argument for taking 
over space, the dogmatists have illustrated it perfectly by placing 
high priority on monopolizing this list with rants and reminders.  

But this isn't space like it used to be, because I think everyone's 
been driven out.  So I hope that when the people's center for culture 
and democracy is in effect, the same people who have spent the last 
five months dissing the campaign and its office space don't decide 
they want to host their far left events there.

I can only wonder what other people think about this list, but they 
dare not express their views, lest they subject themselves to flogging 
with a moldy copy of the liner notes from the old Lefty hit "Gonzalo 
thought meets Knave Starvin", which is best played at 78 speed. 

From the trail of splitist emails, I'm beginning to think that the 
slogan of many SWORD combatants is community control over cyberspace. 
Well you have it. Bye.

Paul


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@h...> wrote:
> no, i was not trying to insinuate that he had ulterior motives. i 
can't 
> understand why these discussions degenerate into antagonistic 
accusations.
> 
> 
> >From: "Tamara Dahan" Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y... To: 
> >nbpeoplescampaign@y... Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the 
> >garbage can! peoples' war on the right! Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 
04:05:59 
> >-0000
> >
> >Are you trying to say that Jason had some kind of ulterior motives 
for 
> >wanting to be a part of the steering committee? What could he 
possibly gain 
> >from this, except by actively fighting for control of his own 
community? 
> >Was he angling for a republican foothold in NB? The People's 
Campaign 
> >should be an accurate reflection of the community that it is trying 
to 
> >represent. Is Frank a better representative of the people in NB 
than Jason, 
> >or was/is the office space that did "mountains more for the 
campaign" more 
> >important than what the campaign was supposed to be about- 
Community 
> >Control. Maybe you should reclarify what the purpose of the PC is 
and who 
> >it is to consist of. People from the community who are fighting for 
control 
> >over their community or republicans who can get funds and office 
spaces? 
> >You sold Jason out for $ and an office and he knows it. That's why 
he 
> >"split" from the campaign. But what really happened is the campaign 
split 
> >from him. After that, to imply that Jason was angling for this 
position for 
> >some kind of personal gain is disgusting. Take that argument to the 
streets 
> >and off this board and see how far you get. The only person I see 
having 
> >gained is Frank with his stolen appointment on the housing 
authority. The 
> >people's campaign definitely didn't gain anything unless you 
consider 
> >helping to put your enemy in a position of power or turning your 
back on NB 
> >youth to be gains. But maybe I just don't understand what 
"mountains" the 
> >office did for the campaign and you'd care to explain. Otherwise 
you should 
> >"help but comment".
> >
> >Tamara
> >
> >
> > >From: "kristina bas" >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y... >To: 
> >nbpeoplescampaign@y... >Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the 
> >garbage can! peoples' war on the >right! >Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 
00:52:14 > 
> > >i can't help but comment: > >i am finding these versions of 
history 
> >pretty funny. doesn't it strike you >as questionable that the 
"budding 
> >youth activist" split the Campaign once >he >wasn't elected to the 
steering 
> >committee? why is that exactly? why would I >want someone like that 
to be 
> >my leader? > >also, not understanding why, at times, it is 
necessary to 
> >ally yourself >with >your foe (ie. a republican) in the context of 
the 
> >general situation ( a >democratic party machine) indicates your 
narrow 
> >understanding of political >development. that is the nature of 
tactical 
> >alliances. gaining the office >space did mountains more for the 
campaign 
> >than you understand. just like >raising money is a necessary task, 
so is 
> >making sure the practical elements >of a campaign come to pass. > 
>ps. the 
> >clever little nicknames are annoying. > >kristina > > > > >at the 
may'00 
> >peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth > >activist jason 
hankins 
> >was nominated by block on lock for the final > >executive board 
seat. njfo 
> >("for revolutionary democracy & > >socialism"), fiending (as 
now)after 
> >"office space" (rather than > >peoples' organization), backed the 
nb 
> >republican party chair dim liar > >(after(!) he had challenged joe 
smith's 
> >election as chair to elected > >board of education committee, on 
grounds 
> >that he is a communist.). > > > >hankins lost & left, with him the 
outreach 
> >committee (motorcades...), > >and possible victory. > > > >rather 
then 
> >relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to enlist > > as 
> >republican party members for election day privileges. dim liar > 
>pimped 
> >this "artificial" support to his now real position. > > > >rather 
than 
> >unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize > >power!, it 
is the 
> >republicans who have seized the position of power > >out of the 
"peoples'" 
> >campaign. > > > >the nb "left bloc" must identify itself 
immediately, & 
> >drive the right > >from its organizations. all imposters must be 
exposed 
> >and isolated. > > > >dim liar must resign now! his illegal 
appointment & 
> >back george > >berry's call for elected resident representation. > 
> > >all 
> >eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining > 
>projects 
> >residents (court hearing is 5april). > > > >skunk soaries must 
immediately 
> >stop obstructing the $500,000 allocated > > by the state 
legislature to 
> >crossroads theater. > > > >protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, 
residence of 
> >nb republican party > >chair dim liar. > > > >republicans in the 
garbage 
> >can! peoples' war on the right! > >revolutionaries unite! with the 
people. 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > >_________________________________________________________________ 
>Get 
> >your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > 
What are 
> >you trying to say? That Jason had some kind of ulterior motives for 
wanting 
> >to be part of the steering committee? What could he have to gain 
from it, 
> >besides getting actively involved in his community trying to bring 
about 
> >_________________________________________________________________ 
Get your 
> >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1220
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-23 17:18:57
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] REMINDER: forum on Monday
Message:

yes, i agree with your points of caution. its very easy to get repulsed by 
the conservative christian aspect of it (as it brings a bad taste to my 
mouth), and to then make the mistake of alienating all religious people, 
some of whom are natural allies.

ive recently met some progressive religious folks who are opening my eyes up 
to broader understandings of how charitable choice sucks. i recently heard 
this progressive theologian speak against compassionate conservatism, and 
when she ended with the quote about the rich man getting through the eye of 
the needle, i was hootin and hollering with everyone else!

kristina

>From: Jeremy Gross <jagross@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] REMINDER: forum on Monday
>Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:08:14 -0500 (EST)
>
>
>Hi,
>
>Sounds cool.  Just be careful to remember that it's as much an attack on
>religion as it is an attack on the welfare state.  The "religion =
>conservative = bad" vs. "secular = liberal = good" schtick only plays into
>the hands of far right 'culture wars' ideologues, ultimately.  Not that
>I'm personally what you'd call a man of faith.
>
>Have you looked at Marvin Olasky's work?  If not, he's much more central
>to the plan than, say, Charles Murray.  (I don't know if Olasky also works
>for the Manhattan Institute -- I thought he worked with the American
>Enterprise Institute, but I could be wrong).  I know at least he's the
>person who came up with the term 'compassionate conservatism'.
>
>Later,
>
>Jeremy
>
>
>On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, kristina bas wrote:
>
> > FREE DISCUSSION FORUM THIS MONDAY, MARCH 26TH, DOUGLASS STUDENT CENTER
> >
> > Charitable Choice or
> > 	Compassionate �Convert�icism??
> >
> > On January 29, 2001, G.W. Bush announced the creation of the first 
>federal
> > office dedicated to the �integration of religious groups into federally
> > financed social services� (NY Times, 1/30/01).
> >
> > What are the origins of the "charitable choice"? How is it linked to
> > prominent (and undercover) right-wing ideologues like John Ashcroft, 
>Tommy
> > Thompson, and Charles Murray (of the 'Bell Curve' fame)? What is its
> > relationship to workfare? What does this mean for the principle of
> > separation between church and state?
> >
> > AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY
> >
> > What are we going to do about it???
> >
> > Join us in for an interactive discussion
> > break down the myths and
> > examine the truth behind �charitable choice�
> > and the latest right-wing attack on democracy
> >
> > with a presentation by Kristina Bas, NJFO member and former Rutgers 
>student
> > activist
> >
> > Monday, March 26, 2001 - 8 pm
> > Faculty Dining Room in the Douglass Cafe
> > Douglass College Center
> > FREE!
> >
> > Sponsored by:
> > Women's Defense Coalition (WDC), the Caellian,
> > and the New Jersey Freedom Organization (NJFO)
> >
> > for more info email: audreya@...
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@...
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: njfo-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1221
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-24 15:21:25
Subject:Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

paul- 

kindly define these slurs, preferrably w/ examples...

"dogmatic marxists"
"determined not to make allies with anyone"
"their far left events"
"splitist emails"
"dissing the campaign"

community control over cyberspace.

kristina-

it is to laugh...

"i can't(?!) understand why these discussions degenerate into 
antagonistic 
accusations."

"i am finding these versions of history pretty funny."
"the "budding youth activist" split the Campaign"
"why would i want someone like that to be my leader?"
"your narrow understanding"
"ps. the clever little nicknames are annoying."

but perhaps there is too much stabbing. perhaps we should better agree 
on what is our disagreement.

can our haters deny that it is they who expelled us, not the reverse?

that their reason is they chose to ally with republicans as against 
working class activists?

that the reason for this is that they view the peoples' enemy as not 
the imperialist ruling class (nb, read: j&j), (using a class analysis 
of "the general situation" & representing the working class), but 
rather, as the local "democratic party machine", thus, using their not-
"narrow understanding", make "tactical alliances" with republican 
operatives?

can they deny that this petty-bourgeois, liberal trend dates well 
before the peoples' campaign, that i was expelled from the u&s study 
group in '96 for opposing republicans (dole), as against the (c.u. 
starvin) slogan, "boycott!", BY THE SAME PEOPLE who expelled block on 
lock for in '00 for opposing republicans as against the (njfo) slogan 
"tactically unite with republican foes, in the context of the general 
political situation, against the democratic party machine."

peoples' war on the right!
republicans in the garbage can!
build the peoples' democratic workers' party!
unite don't split!

cliff


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., shorepaulie@h... wrote:
> I think Jason's not on this listserv speaking for himself because this 
> list and njfo list are irrelevant soap boxes for dogmatic marxists who 
> are determined not to make allies with anyone.  It's a damn shame 
> what's happened to this list, and if you want one argument for taking 
> over space, the dogmatists have illustrated it perfectly by placing 
> high priority on monopolizing this list with rants and reminders.  
> 
> But this isn't space like it used to be, because I think everyone's 
> been driven out.  So I hope that when the people's center for culture 
> and democracy is in effect, the same people who have spent the last 
> five months dissing the campaign and its office space don't decide 
> they want to host their far left events there.
> 
> I can only wonder what other people think about this list, but they 
> dare not express their views, lest they subject themselves to flogging 
> with a moldy copy of the liner notes from the old Lefty hit "Gonzalo 
> thought meets Knave Starvin", which is best played at 78 speed. 
> 
> From the trail of splitist emails, I'm beginning to think that the 
> slogan of many SWORD combatants is community control over cyberspace. 
> Well you have it. Bye.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@h...> wrote:
> > no, i was not trying to insinuate that he had ulterior motives. i 
> can't 
> > understand why these discussions degenerate into antagonistic 
> accusations.
> > 
> > 
> > >From: "Tamara Dahan" Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y... To: 
> > >nbpeoplescampaign@y... Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the 
> > >garbage can! peoples' war on the right! Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 
> 04:05:59 
> > >-0000
> > >
> > >Are you trying to say that Jason had some kind of ulterior motives 
> for 
> > >wanting to be a part of the steering committee? What could he 
> possibly gain 
> > >from this, except by actively fighting for control of his own 
> community? 
> > >Was he angling for a republican foothold in NB? The People's 
> Campaign 
> > >should be an accurate reflection of the community that it is trying 
> to 
> > >represent. Is Frank a better representative of the people in NB 
> than Jason, 
> > >or was/is the office space that did "mountains more for the 
> campaign" more 
> > >important than what the campaign was supposed to be about- 
> Community 
> > >Control. Maybe you should reclarify what the purpose of the PC is 
> and who 
> > >it is to consist of. People from the community who are fighting for 
> control 
> > >over their community or republicans who can get funds and office 
> spaces? 
> > >You sold Jason out for $ and an office and he knows it. That's why 
> he 
> > >"split" from the campaign. But what really happened is the campaign 
> split 
> > >from him. After that, to imply that Jason was angling for this 
> position for 
> > >some kind of personal gain is disgusting. Take that argument to the 
> streets 
> > >and off this board and see how far you get. The only person I see 
> having 
> > >gained is Frank with his stolen appointment on the housing 
> authority. The 
> > >people's campaign definitely didn't gain anything unless you 
> consider 
> > >helping to put your enemy in a position of power or turning your 
> back on NB 
> > >youth to be gains. But maybe I just don't understand what 
> "mountains" the 
> > >office did for the campaign and you'd care to explain. Otherwise 
> you should 
> > >"help but comment".
> > >
> > >Tamara
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "kristina bas" >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y... >To: 
> > >nbpeoplescampaign@y... >Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the 
> > >garbage can! peoples' war on the >right! >Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 
> 00:52:14 > 
> > > >i can't help but comment: > >i am finding these versions of 
> history 
> > >pretty funny. doesn't it strike you >as questionable that the 
> "budding 
> > >youth activist" split the Campaign once >he >wasn't elected to the 
> steering 
> > >committee? why is that exactly? why would i want someone like that to be my leader? > >also, not understanding why, at times, it is 
> necessary to 
> > >ally yourself >with >your foe (ie. a republican) in the context of 
> the 
> > >general situation ( a >democratic party machine) indicates your 
> narrow 
> > >understanding of political >development. that is the nature of 
> tactical 
> > >alliances. gaining the office >space did mountains more for the 
> campaign 
> > >than you understand. just like >raising money is a necessary task, 
> so is 
> > >making sure the practical elements >of a campaign come to pass. > 
> >ps. the 
> > >clever little nicknames are annoying. > >kristina > > > > >at the 
> may'00 
> > >peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth > >activist jason 
> hankins 
> > >was nominated by block on lock for the final > >executive board 
> seat. njfo 
> > >("for revolutionary democracy & > >socialism"), fiending (as 
> now)after 
> > >"office space" (rather than > >peoples' organization), backed the 
> nb 
> > >republican party chair dim liar > >(after(!) he had challenged joe 
> smith's 
> > >election as chair to elected > >board of education committee, on 
> grounds 
> > >that he is a communist.). > > > >hankins lost & left, with him the 
> outreach 
> > >committee (motorcades...), > >and possible victory. > > > >rather 
> then 
> > >relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to enlist > > as 
> > >republican party members for election day privileges. dim liar > 
> >pimped 
> > >this "artificial" support to his now real position. > > > >rather 
> than 
> > >unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize > >power!, it 
> is the 
> > >republicans who have seized the position of power > >out of the 
> "peoples'" 
> > >campaign. > > > >the nb "left bloc" must identify itself 
> immediately, & 
> > >drive the right > >from its organizations. all imposters must be 
> exposed 
> > >and isolated. > > > >dim liar must resign now! his illegal 
> appointment & 
> > >back george > >berry's call for elected resident representation. > 
> > > >all 
> > >eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining > 
> >projects 
> > >residents (court hearing is 5april). > > > >skunk soaries must 
> immediately 
> > >stop obstructing the $500,000 allocated > > by the state 
> legislature to 
> > >crossroads theater. > > > >protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, 
> residence of 
> > >nb republican party > >chair dim liar. > > > >republicans in the 
> garbage 
> > >can! peoples' war on the right! > >revolutionaries unite! with the 
> people. 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > >_________________________________________________________________ 
> >Get 
> > >your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > 
> What are 
> > >you trying to say? That Jason had some kind of ulterior motives for 
> wanting 
> > >to be part of the steering committee? What could he have to gain 
> from it, 
> > >besides getting actively involved in his community trying to bring 
> about 
> > >_________________________________________________________________ 
> Get your 
> > >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1222
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-24 15:34:15
Subject:remember the triangle shirtwaist factory fire.
Message:

women unite!
remember the history of struggle of the women who have come before us.  
meet to discuss & organize around women's issues in our community as 
part of an all-women's caucus.

sunday march 25, 1pm at the monument square fountain

ninety years ago on march 25, 1911, 146 workers were killed in the 
triangle shirtwaist factory fire.  almost all the workers were young 
women under the age of 25, 67 of whom were forced to jump out of the 
7th, 8th, and 9th floor windows because of the absence of any 
sprinklers or fire exits.  doors were locked to prevent stealing.  this 
event was especially tragic because it occured 2 years after 20,000 
garment workers participated in a general strike for 13 weeks and took 
to the street in order to secure better working conditions, shorter 
hours and higher wages.  the unions accomplished many of their goals, 
but factories such as the triangle shirtwaist refused to adhere to even 
the most minimal of the workers' demands.  unfortunately, this crime 
against underpaid, overworked women is not even the most gruesome of 
either working conditions or factory safety to date.

at the time of the triangle shirtwaist fire, women could not vote.  ten 
years later, in 1921, the equal rights amendment was written by 
suffragist alice paul.  it has been introduced in congress every 
session since 1923.  it passed congress in 1972, but failed to be 
ratified by the necessary 38 states by the july 1982 deadline.  it was 
ratified by 35 states.

women must unite in our continuing struggle for self-determination!

for info contact sisterhoodNstruggle1@... or maura at 729.7471.

equal rights amendment:
sec.1- equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged 
by the united states or any state on account of sex.

sec.2- the congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate 
legislation, the provisions of this article.

sec.3- this amendment shall take effect 2 years after the date of 
ratification.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1223
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-24 18:21:56
Subject:Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

paul, arguments and disagreements are real in cyberspace and on remsen ave. 
sword is very interested in the peoples' campaign doing work and uniting the 
community. i would suggest that the peoples' campaign should run the elected 
school board campaign this year. not only is this the best time to jump on 
the city machine over the question of education because of recent test 
results, the cebe would work to fine tune pc for Ras' campaign and beating 
the republican candidate by electing mc greasy. objectively, it would be a 
better goal to have the question on the ballot by september with four 
thousand newly registered voters. the office space and money can come as it 
comes, but it is the campaigns that raise consciousness and organize the 
community and raise the demands of the campaign, which are demands of the 
community organized through the campaign.

i am all for an office/community/recreation/debate space, i am working on 
getting the name of commercial ave changed to Paul Robeson Avenue as part of 
the initial stage of Mosley's plan for a community center. but not a space 
to punch in and punch out and that's the day. not a space that is the only 
claim to the community.

jayson is not on this listserve because he was expelled from the campaign 
and does not know it is available. you think jayson should apoligize to 
curtis, who he knows would sell him out in a second, to join an organization 
that is more interested in allying themselves with republicans than with the 
people in the streets? that is the arguement, not reminders. reminders can 
be erased but if you plan on coming back into NB onto the same streets, you 
got some explaining to do. because you all expelled the majority of people 
that have upheld the campaign platform of community control and continue to 
do so. while curtis, your "untouchable", can stand confidently by and praise
the illegal selection of bright to the housing authority as he could care 
less for those people living in public housing. curtis with his support of 
bright is clearly pushing a republican, not community control, agenda and 
you (peoples' campaign) must address that immediately. or else these streets 
will not embrace you in the same fashion as last year.

as far as the community's center for culture and democracy, it had better 
embrace the left because you might find some republican secratary of state 
or someone with-holding necassary funding to your existance.

"splitist e-mails". i should type in all the letters of expulsion from over 
the years your organizations njfo, peoples' campaign have been all too busy 
compiling. while you would have none from bol/sword. a split is not an 
insult as your new codes of conduct go on about, because the ? about 
building the united front is about criticism unity criticism and exposing 
the true enemies of the people, i.e. republicans and what they serve, 
imperialism.

joe

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1224
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-24 18:42:18
Subject:Fwd: Jay Mazur of UNITE!
Message:



> > City University of New York
> > The Center for Place, Culture and Politics
> > Graduate School & University Center
> > Presents:
> > Jay Mazur
> >
> >
> >
> > President, (UNITE) Union of Needle-trades, Industrial and Textile
> > Employees AFL-CIO
> >
> > The Triangle Fire & The New Internationalism
> >
> > Jay Mazur is President of the Union of Needle-trades, Industrial and
> > Textile Employees (UNITE) and Vice-President of the AFL-CIO.  He 
>pioneered
> > the offering of immigration legal services to union members and is a
> > leading spokesman for the rights immigrants and refugees and for liberal
> > immigration reform. He is a founder of the National Emergency Coalition
> > for Haitian Refugees and a member of the Board of Directors of the
> > International Rescue Committee. Mr. Mazur is also a member of a number 
>of
> > boards active in efforts to retain manufacturing jobs in the U.S. and
> > served as a director of the New York State Urban Development 
>Corporation.
> > He is a member of the Boards of Directors of American ORT, The Atlantic
> > Council, Freedom House and the American Ditchley Foundation, and is a
> > member of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Holocaust Memorial 
>Council
> > and the Labor Advisory Committee for Trade Negotiations and Trade
> > Policy/U.S. Department of Labor.
> > Tuesday, March 27, 2001
> > 3:30pm
> > Room C204/205
> > (one level below the lobby)
> > The Graduate School & University Center
> > 365 Fifth Avenue (btwn 34th & 35th)
> >
> >
> >

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1225
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-24 19:45:05
Subject:organize an election for public housing resident rep to housing authority!
Message:

A coalition of New Brunswick community activists are organizing an 
election of eligible residents to select a representative to the New 
Brunswick Housing Authority.

We ask for the support of the Housing Authority and the City Council, 
and are calling residents to attend the Housing Authority meeting at 
7:00pm, Wednesday, 28 March at the Schwartz-Robeson Community Room,
37 Van Dyke Ave.

George Berry--Pres., NB Homes Tenants' Assoc.
Beverly Marshall--Pres., NB Apts. Tenants' Assoc.
Joe Mosely--2nd Vice-Chair, NJ Greens Party
Alyson Mihalenko--NB resident
Tamara Dahan--Sisterhood & Struggle
Gigi Thompson--NB resident
Frank Bright--Commissioner, NBHA, Chair, NB Republican Party
Cliff Smith--Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1226
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-24 22:40:17
Subject:Re: [nbpc] organize an election for public housing resident rep to housing au...
Message:

FYI,

The NBHA meeting begins at 6:45 pm on Wednesday. Those fifteen minutes may be 
important. And bring snacks (non crunchy) as the meeting will last for a few 
hours.









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1227
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-25 13:50:34
Subject:Re: PEOPLE'S CENTER MEETING
Message:

x, what ever happened to the survey responses? i thought that was the 
direction the peoples' campaign must go. the surveys were performed to 
allow the campaign to organize around community input. why not run the 
board of education campaign as the top survey result is community 
control over education? where is center on the survey responses? it 
seems as the community input has been ignored for a long while now. 
joe


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., xavier.hansen@a... wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> The People's Center Committee will meet this coming 
> 
> TUESDAY, 3/27/01 at 9PM
> 95 Baldwin Street
> 
> Anyone interested is encouraged to come.
> (If you need a ride, call Xavier at 735-1342)
> 
> As we decided at the People's Campaign's last General 
> Meeting (following Debra Key''s proposal), we will begin 
> planning for the opening of a People's Campaign Center 
> for Culture and Democracy to serve as a headquarters for 
> grassroots political activism and community cultural 
> activities in New Brunswick. Among other points, we will 
> focus on: 
> 
> -Finding potential sites
> 
> -Gathering resources and volunteers
> 
> -Raising necessary funds
> 
> -Promoting the plan for the People's Center throughout 
> the New Brunswick community.
> 
> Hope to see you there.
> 
> In unity, 
> 
> Xavier







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1228
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-23 15:38:23
Subject:Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

then, bas, what is "questionable"? your organizations support for 
republicans is the only thing that comes to mind!

joe


>From: "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the 
>right!
>Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:36:08
>
>no, i was not trying to insinuate that he had ulterior motives. i can't
>understand why these discussions degenerate into antagonistic accusations.
>
>
> >From: "Tamara Dahan" Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com To:
> >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the
> >garbage can! peoples' war on the right! Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 04:05:59
> >-0000
> >
> >Are you trying to say that Jason had some kind of ulterior motives for
> >wanting to be a part of the steering committee? What could he possibly 
>gain
> >from this, except by actively fighting for control of his own community?
> >Was he angling for a republican foothold in NB? The People's Campaign
> >should be an accurate reflection of the community that it is trying to
> >represent. Is Frank a better representative of the people in NB than 
>Jason,
> >or was/is the office space that did "mountains more for the campaign" 
>more
> >important than what the campaign was supposed to be about- Community
> >Control. Maybe you should reclarify what the purpose of the PC is and who
> >it is to consist of. People from the community who are fighting for 
>control
> >over their community or republicans who can get funds and office spaces?
> >You sold Jason out for $ and an office and he knows it. That's why he
> >"split" from the campaign. But what really happened is the campaign split
> >from him. After that, to imply that Jason was angling for this position 
>for
> >some kind of personal gain is disgusting. Take that argument to the 
>streets
> >and off this board and see how far you get. The only person I see having
> >gained is Frank with his stolen appointment on the housing authority. The
> >people's campaign definitely didn't gain anything unless you consider
> >helping to put your enemy in a position of power or turning your back on 
>NB
> >youth to be gains. But maybe I just don't understand what "mountains" the
> >office did for the campaign and you'd care to explain. Otherwise you 
>should
> >"help but comment".
> >
> >Tamara
> >
> >
> > >From: "kristina bas" >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com >To:
> >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the
> >garbage can! peoples' war on the >right! >Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:52:14 
> >
> > >i can't help but comment: > >i am finding these versions of history
> >pretty funny. doesn't it strike you >as questionable that the "budding
> >youth activist" split the Campaign once >he >wasn't elected to the 
>steering
> >committee? why is that exactly? why would I >want someone like that to be
> >my leader? > >also, not understanding why, at times, it is necessary to
> >ally yourself >with >your foe (ie. a republican) in the context of the
> >general situation ( a >democratic party machine) indicates your narrow
> >understanding of political >development. that is the nature of tactical
> >alliances. gaining the office >space did mountains more for the campaign
> >than you understand. just like >raising money is a necessary task, so is
> >making sure the practical elements >of a campaign come to pass. > >ps. 
>the
> >clever little nicknames are annoying. > >kristina > > > > >at the may'00
> >peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth > >activist jason 
>hankins
> >was nominated by block on lock for the final > >executive board seat. 
>njfo
> >("for revolutionary democracy & > >socialism"), fiending (as now)after
> >"office space" (rather than > >peoples' organization), backed the nb
> >republican party chair dim liar > >(after(!) he had challenged joe 
>smith's
> >election as chair to elected > >board of education committee, on grounds
> >that he is a communist.). > > > >hankins lost & left, with him the 
>outreach
> >committee (motorcades...), > >and possible victory. > > > >rather then
> >relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to enlist > > as
> >republican party members for election day privileges. dim liar > >pimped
> >this "artificial" support to his now real position. > > > >rather than
> >unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize > >power!, it is 
>the
> >republicans who have seized the position of power > >out of the 
>"peoples'"
> >campaign. > > > >the nb "left bloc" must identify itself immediately, &
> >drive the right > >from its organizations. all imposters must be exposed
> >and isolated. > > > >dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment &
> >back george > >berry's call for elected resident representation. > > > 
> >all
> >eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining > >projects
> >residents (court hearing is 5april). > > > >skunk soaries must 
>immediately
> >stop obstructing the $500,000 allocated > > by the state legislature to
> >crossroads theater. > > > >protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, residence of
> >nb republican party > >chair dim liar. > > > >republicans in the garbage
> >can! peoples' war on the right! > >revolutionaries unite! with the 
>people.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get
> >your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > What are
> >you trying to say? That Jason had some kind of ulterior motives for 
>wanting
> >to be part of the steering committee? What could he have to gain from it,
> >besides getting actively involved in his community trying to bring about
> >_________________________________________________________________ Get 
>your
> >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1229
Sender:Anna Louise Wargo <alwargo@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-26 10:14:08
Subject:Fascinating DevCo Document
Message:

Good day friends,

I found this gem on the Food Not Bombs egroups message board.  It was
posted by Diane Krauthamer to whom I just sent a thank you note for
circulating this super piece of work.

Enjoy!

Anna


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1230
Sender:Anna Louise Wargo <alwargo@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-26 10:56:09
Subject:DevCo attachment
Message:

Hopefully this time the attachment will stick to the message.

Anna
alwargo@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1231
Sender:Jeremy Gross <jagross@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-26 11:17:33
Subject:TEACH-IN, this Thur, 3/29, 8pm (fwd)
Message:


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 01:52:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Elizabeth Weill-greenberg <elizabew@...>
To: jagross@...
Subject: TEACH-IN, this Thur, 3/29, 8pm (fwd)


Demarest Main Lounge, 8pm, March 29, Thu
Teach-In on the Construction of Punishment in US Society: Racism and 
Classism in the US Justice System
Lecturer:Dr. Richard Kempter, prof at John Jay, activist and retired prison 
psychologist

Part of RU Ignite's Education Not Incarceration Week

Please feel free to bring your org's lit.

Refreshments will be served.

See you there!

-Buffy
732-745-1482


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1232
Sender:alwargo@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-26 11:13:48
Subject:DevCo and the NB Housing Authority fact sheet
Message:

If it doesn't attach this time, I need help.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1233
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-26 11:42:57
Subject:Re: republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@h...> 
wrote:

A few points ought to be made in response:

1)  Your group seems to endlessly put Mr. Hankins up on a pedestal, 
which comes across as boundlessly weird.  Since you're all, presuming, 
in your early to mid 20's, and he's a NBHS student of about 17 years 
of age, something seems ethically out-of-whack.

2)  The (first) steering committee was elected democratically at the 
May convention by a relatively large meeting of individuals of a 
fairly evenly balanced variety of backgrounds and areas of residence 
in the city.  Jason Hankins was nominated, and that nomination was 
submitted to a vote fairly.  He gave a speech, like everyone else.  
And then he did not win the election.  How do you read a conspiracy 
against him into this?  Is democracy only valid on principle if you 
win?

3)  It could also be argued that it is not surprising that he lost.  I 
recall his speech, and it was lousy.  He was hunched over the podium. 
He was sort of mumbling.  He recited some stock lines about 
'democracy' that sounded like they had been spoonfed.  I think they 
were mostly slogans straight off of Block on Lock's flyers.  In short, 
he gave the audience, many of whom had no personal acquaintance with 
the majority of the nominees, no reason to vote for him.  And he gave 
them reasons, in turn, to not vote for him.  He certainly deserved to 
prove that he was more mature than his (chronological) age would 
suggest him as being.  But he did not quite prove himself to transcend 
that presumption.  

I apologize if this does not seem _superbly_ polite, but I think all 
of the points above are quite worth making, and entirely valid.  I 
only mention them because nobody has said them as of yet.  

Yours,

Jeremy 


> Are you trying to say that Jason had some kind of ulterior motives 
for 
> wanting to be a part of the steering committee?  What could he 
possibly gain 
> from this, except by actively fighting for control of his  own 
community?  
> Was he angling for a republican foothold in NB? The  People's 
Campaign 
> should be an accurate reflection of the community that it is trying 
to 
> represent. Is Frank a better representative of the people in NB than 
Jason, 
> or was/is the office space that did "mountains more for the 
campaign" more 
> important than what the campaign was supposed to be about- Community 
> Control.  Maybe you should reclarify what the purpose of the PC is 
and who 
> it is to consist of. People from the community who are fighting for 
control 
> over their community or republicans who can get funds and office 
spaces?  
> You sold Jason out for $ and an office and he knows it.  That's why 
he 
> "split" from the campaign.  But what really happened is the campaign 
split 
> from him. After that, to imply that Jason was angling for this 
position for 
> some kind of personal gain is disgusting.  Take that argument to the 
streets 
> and off this board and see how far you get.  The only person I see 
having 
> gained is Frank with his stolen appointment on the housing 
authority.  The 
> people's campaign definitely didn't gain anything unless you 
consider 
> helping to put your enemy in a position of power or turning your 
back on NB 
> youth to be gains. But maybe I just don't understand what 
"mountains" the 
> office did for the campaign and you'd care to explain. Otherwise you 
should 
> "help but comment".
> 
>                                       Tamara
> 
> 
> >From: "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@h...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on 
the 
> >right!
> >Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:52:14
> >
> >i can't help but comment:
> >
> >i am finding these versions of history pretty funny. doesn't it 
strike you
> >as questionable that the "budding youth activist" split the 
Campaign once 
> >he
> >wasn't elected to the steering committee? why is that exactly? why 
would I
> >want someone like that to be my leader?
> >
> >also, not understanding why, at times, it is necessary to ally 
yourself 
> >with
> >your foe (ie. a republican) in the context of the general situation 
( a
> >democratic party machine) indicates your narrow understanding of 
political
> >development. that is the nature of tactical alliances. gaining the 
office
> >space did mountains more for the campaign than you understand. just 
like
> >raising money is a necessary task, so is making sure the practical 
elements
> >of a campaign come to pass.
> >
> >ps. the clever little nicknames are annoying.
> >
> >kristina
> >
> > >
> > >at the may'00 peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth
> > >activist jason hankins was nominated by block on lock for the 
final
> > >executive board seat. njfo ("for revolutionary democracy &
> > >socialism"), fiending (as now)after "office space" (rather than
> > >peoples' organization), backed the nb republican party chair dim 
liar
> > >(after(!) he had challenged joe smith's election as chair to 
elected
> > >board of education committee, on grounds that he is a 
communist.).
> > >
> > >hankins lost & left, with him the outreach committee 
(motorcades...),
> > >and possible victory.
> > >
> > >rather then relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to 
enlist
> > >  as republican party members for election day privileges. dim 
liar
> > >pimped this "artificial" support to his now real position.
> > >
> > >rather than unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize
> > >power!, it is the republicans who have seized the position of 
power
> > >out of the "peoples'" campaign.
> > >
> > >the nb "left bloc" must identify itself immediately, & drive the 
right
> > >from its organizations.  all imposters must be exposed and 
isolated.
> > >
> > >dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & back george
> > >berry's call for elected resident representation.
> > >
> > >all eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining
> > >projects residents (court hearing is 5april).
> > >
> > >skunk soaries must immediately stop obstructing the $500,000 
allocated
> > >  by the state legislature to crossroads theater.
> > >
> > >protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, residence of nb republican 
party
> > >chair dim liar.
> > >
> > >republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
> > >revolutionaries unite! with the people.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> What are you trying to say? That Jason had some kind of ulterior 
motives for 
> wanting to be part of the steering committee?  What could he have to 
gain 
> from it, besides getting actively involved in his community trying 
to bring 
> about
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1234
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-26 13:07:59
Subject:that fabulous anti-nike email!
Message:

do you remember that anti-nike email for a few weeks back?

once again, I LOVE THE INTERNET!


THE NATION
FEATURE STORY | April 9, 2001

My Nike Media Adventure
by JONAH PERETTI


Nike's website allows visitors to create custom shoes bearing a word or 
slogan--a service Nike trumpets as being about freedom to choose and freedom 
to express who you are. Confronted with Nike's celebration of freedom and 
their statement that if you want it done right, build it yourself, I could 
not help but think of the people in crowded factories in Asia and South 
America who actually build Nike shoes. As a challenge to Nike, I ordered a 
pair of shoes customized with the word "sweatshop." Nike rejected my 
request, marking the beginning of a correspondence between me and the 
company [see box]. None of Nike's messages addressed the company's legendary 
labor abuses, and their avoidance of the issue created an impression even 
worse than an admission of guilt. In mid-January I forwarded the whole 
e-mail correspondence to a dozen friends, and since that time it has raced 
around the Internet, reaching millions of people, even though I did not 
participate at all in its further proliferation. The e-mail began to spread 
widely thanks to a collection of strangers, scattered around the world, who 
took up my battle with Nike. Nike's adversary was an amorphous group of 
disgruntled consumers connected by a decentralized network of e-mail 
addresses. Although the press has presented my battle with Nike as a David 
versus Goliath parable, the real story is the battle between a company like 
Nike, with access to the mass media, and a network of citizens on the 
Internet who have only micromedia at their disposal.

INTERACT
Print this article
E-mail this article
Write to the editors



MORE ABOUT...
Jonah Peretti
Sweatshops




Everyone knows about the power of mass media, especially Nike. Nike is 
primarily a brand; its main product is advertisements rather than shoes or 
clothing. By spending nearly a billion dollars a year, Nike gains access to 
all major media outlets. Nike broadcasts a message that equates its famous 
swoosh with freedom, revolution and personal exuberance. Of course, this 
image is sharply at odds with the oppressive conditions faced by Nike 
factory workers. Nike's celebration of freedom never reached the ears of the 
Indonesian woman who had to trade sexual favors to get her job or the 
Mexican worker who was struck with a hammer by his angry manager. Both of 
these violations were reported earlier this year, and similarly graphic 
episodes have been discovered regularly over the past ten years. However, 
even with the benefit of these reports, activists have had trouble 
counteracting the lure of Nike's slick TV ads and high-profile endorsements.

Micromedia has the potential to reach just as many people as mass media, 
especially in the emerging networked economy. Most e-mail forwards die 
before they are widely distributed, but if critical mass is attained, it is 
possible to reach millions of people without spending any money at all. 
Another benefit is that each person receives the e-mail from a friend, often 
with a personal recommendation such as "I thought you would like this," or 
"This is really funny." So the audience is preselected for its receptivity 
to the message. When a recipient does enjoy the message, he or she can begin 
the process again by reforwarding it. It takes so little effort for each 
person to pass the message to multiple recipients that an idea can almost 
seem to be spreading on its own, like a self-replicating virus.

Nike has the advantage when it comes to mass media, but activists may have 
the advantage with micromedia. I discovered this accidentally when I sent my 
Nike e-mails to a few friends. My small group of friends may be divided from 
everyone else in the world by only six degrees of separation, but until the 
large-scale adoption of the Internet, this did not have such dramatic 
consequences. I never expected my conversation with Nike to be so widely 
distributed; the e-mail began to proliferate without my participation. The 
only force propelling the message was the collective action of those who 
thought it was worth forwarding. Unions, church groups, activists, teachers, 
mothers, schoolchildren and members of the US armed forces sent me letters 
of support. This contradicts Nike's claim that only fringe groups identify 
with anti-Nike sentiment. Rather, an expansive group of people from all 
walks of life are concerned about sweatshop labor and are dismayed by Nike's 
brand hegemony.

But the Nike e-mails did not reach these people all at once. Like all 
micromedia, the Nike e-mails jumped haphazardly around a network defined by 
personal relationships. The first people to get the message were friends or 
friends of friends who tended to be left-leaning and interested in 
technology. At this point, I received responses from people like Johana 
Shull, a college student in California, who informed me that she posted the 
Nike e-mails to her sociology class discussion list to support their 
discussion of freedom of expression as it relates to pop culture. As the 
message spread, it began circulating among die-hard activists who saw it as 
supporting their life's mission. The tone changed the day I got an urgent 
message from someone who called himself Biker-X. His query: "Please confirm 
if the entire Nike exchange took place for me. Inquiring activists want to 
know." In the coming days the message would race through the anti-Nike, 
culture-jamming, activist community. At this point, I was getting twenty or 
thirty e-mails a day, mostly from the United States and Britain, and I 
assumed that the circulation had peaked.

Then, something interesting happened. The micromedia message began to work 
its way into the mass media. This transformation was helped along by 
postings on media startups Plastic.com and Slashdot.org, two sites that use 
an innovative publishing technique somewhere between micro- and mass media. 
These democratic sites blur the line between editors and readers, so that 
Internet buzz can be transformed into a hotly debated news item seen by 
thousands of people. Reporters from traditional media outlets noticed posts 
on these sites or received the e-mail forward directly from friends, with 
notes saying things like, "You should really do a story about this." At 
first articles appeared in technology-focused and left-leaning publications 
like the San Jose Mercury News, Shey.net, Salon.com, the Village Voice and 
In These Times. But soon mainstays like Time, the BBC, the Los Angeles 
Times, USA Today, the Wall Street Journal and Business Week were covering 
the story. NBC's Today show flew me to New York for an appearance on 
national television. In almost every case, the reporters noted that they 
discovered the story online or heard about it from a close friend. Fatigued 
by PR-driven pitches, journalists saw the Nike e-mails as an opportunity to 
discover a story for themselves.



As the mass-media attention grew, so did the circulation of the e-mail. I 
began receiving 500 messages a day, sent from Australia, Asia, Africa and 
South America. The majority were letters of support or messages, like the 
one from Katy Joyce, to verify whether I was a real person or just an urban 
myth. Those who assumed I was real started to request advice about politics, 
economics and the kind of shoes they should buy. I knew the message had 
spread well beyond my circle of friends when I was cc'd this message from a 
man named George Walden: "I get a kick out of these elitist, eggheads and 
their self-serving, selfrighteous 'rain forest' ethics and contrived secular 
pieties. Somebody should burn 'sweatshop' into this foolish c**ksucking 
faggot's forehead with a cigarette." On the other extreme, I also began to 
receive marriage proposals and correspondence that could be described as fan 
mail.

Thankfully, my e-mail volume is finally back down to fewer than a hundred 
messages a day, and the media blitz is tapering off. The exchange is working 
its way into sociology textbooks, viral marketing seminars, business-school 
cases and doctoral dissertations. My guess is that in the long run this 
episode will have a larger impact on how people think about media than how 
they think about Nike and sweatshop labor. This larger lesson suggests an 
exciting opportunity for activists. The dynamics of decentralized 
distribution systems and peer-to-peer networks are as counterintuitive as 
they are powerful. By understanding these dynamics, new forms of social 
protest become possible, with the potential to challenge some of the 
constellations of power traditionally supported by the mass media.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1235
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-26 13:39:31
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

what hankins said was much better than what bright had to say! plus the work 
he had accomplished leading up to the convention was 1000X more important 
than anything bright did as well as yourself and njfo. bright openly 
attacked communism and was still embraced by njfo for steering committee. 
for revolutionary democracy... and snuggle up to republicans. f your ethics.

their was conspiracy on behalf of njfo in other circumstances also. putting 
zofia on "a pedestal" for the school board campaign to run against myself.

peoples' campaign and bourgeois democracy, so happy together.

joe


>From: jagross66@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the 
>right!
>Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:42:57 -0000
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@h...>
>wrote:
>
>A few points ought to be made in response:
>
>1)  Your group seems to endlessly put Mr. Hankins up on a pedestal,
>which comes across as boundlessly weird.  Since you're all, presuming,
>in your early to mid 20's, and he's a NBHS student of about 17 years
>of age, something seems ethically out-of-whack.
>
>2)  The (first) steering committee was elected democratically at the
>May convention by a relatively large meeting of individuals of a
>fairly evenly balanced variety of backgrounds and areas of residence
>in the city.  Jason Hankins was nominated, and that nomination was
>submitted to a vote fairly.  He gave a speech, like everyone else.
>And then he did not win the election.  How do you read a conspiracy
>against him into this?  Is democracy only valid on principle if you
>win?
>
>3)  It could also be argued that it is not surprising that he lost.  I
>recall his speech, and it was lousy.  He was hunched over the podium.
>He was sort of mumbling.  He recited some stock lines about
>'democracy' that sounded like they had been spoonfed.  I think they
>were mostly slogans straight off of Block on Lock's flyers.  In short,
>he gave the audience, many of whom had no personal acquaintance with
>the majority of the nominees, no reason to vote for him.  And he gave
>them reasons, in turn, to not vote for him.  He certainly deserved to
>prove that he was more mature than his (chronological) age would
>suggest him as being.  But he did not quite prove himself to transcend
>that presumption.
>
>I apologize if this does not seem _superbly_ polite, but I think all
>of the points above are quite worth making, and entirely valid.  I
>only mention them because nobody has said them as of yet.
>
>Yours,
>
>Jeremy
>
>
> > Are you trying to say that Jason had some kind of ulterior motives
>for
> > wanting to be a part of the steering committee?  What could he
>possibly gain
> > from this, except by actively fighting for control of his  own
>community?
> > Was he angling for a republican foothold in NB? The  People's
>Campaign
> > should be an accurate reflection of the community that it is trying
>to
> > represent. Is Frank a better representative of the people in NB than
>Jason,
> > or was/is the office space that did "mountains more for the
>campaign" more
> > important than what the campaign was supposed to be about- Community
> > Control.  Maybe you should reclarify what the purpose of the PC is
>and who
> > it is to consist of. People from the community who are fighting for
>control
> > over their community or republicans who can get funds and office
>spaces?
> > You sold Jason out for $ and an office and he knows it.  That's why
>he
> > "split" from the campaign.  But what really happened is the campaign
>split
> > from him. After that, to imply that Jason was angling for this
>position for
> > some kind of personal gain is disgusting.  Take that argument to the
>streets
> > and off this board and see how far you get.  The only person I see
>having
> > gained is Frank with his stolen appointment on the housing
>authority.  The
> > people's campaign definitely didn't gain anything unless you
>consider
> > helping to put your enemy in a position of power or turning your
>back on NB
> > youth to be gains. But maybe I just don't understand what
>"mountains" the
> > office did for the campaign and you'd care to explain. Otherwise you
>should
> > "help but comment".
> >
> >                                       Tamara
> >
> >
> > >From: "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@h...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on
>the
> > >right!
> > >Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:52:14
> > >
> > >i can't help but comment:
> > >
> > >i am finding these versions of history pretty funny. doesn't it
>strike you
> > >as questionable that the "budding youth activist" split the
>Campaign once
> > >he
> > >wasn't elected to the steering committee? why is that exactly? why
>would I
> > >want someone like that to be my leader?
> > >
> > >also, not understanding why, at times, it is necessary to ally
>yourself
> > >with
> > >your foe (ie. a republican) in the context of the general situation
>( a
> > >democratic party machine) indicates your narrow understanding of
>political
> > >development. that is the nature of tactical alliances. gaining the
>office
> > >space did mountains more for the campaign than you understand. just
>like
> > >raising money is a necessary task, so is making sure the practical
>elements
> > >of a campaign come to pass.
> > >
> > >ps. the clever little nicknames are annoying.
> > >
> > >kristina
> > >
> > > >
> > > >at the may'00 peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth
> > > >activist jason hankins was nominated by block on lock for the
>final
> > > >executive board seat. njfo ("for revolutionary democracy &
> > > >socialism"), fiending (as now)after "office space" (rather than
> > > >peoples' organization), backed the nb republican party chair dim
>liar
> > > >(after(!) he had challenged joe smith's election as chair to
>elected
> > > >board of education committee, on grounds that he is a
>communist.).
> > > >
> > > >hankins lost & left, with him the outreach committee
>(motorcades...),
> > > >and possible victory.
> > > >
> > > >rather then relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to
>enlist
> > > >  as republican party members for election day privileges. dim
>liar
> > > >pimped this "artificial" support to his now real position.
> > > >
> > > >rather than unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize
> > > >power!, it is the republicans who have seized the position of
>power
> > > >out of the "peoples'" campaign.
> > > >
> > > >the nb "left bloc" must identify itself immediately, & drive the
>right
> > > >from its organizations.  all imposters must be exposed and
>isolated.
> > > >
> > > >dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & back george
> > > >berry's call for elected resident representation.
> > > >
> > > >all eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining
> > > >projects residents (court hearing is 5april).
> > > >
> > > >skunk soaries must immediately stop obstructing the $500,000
>allocated
> > > >  by the state legislature to crossroads theater.
> > > >
> > > >protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, residence of nb republican
>party
> > > >chair dim liar.
> > > >
> > > >republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
> > > >revolutionaries unite! with the people.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> > What are you trying to say? That Jason had some kind of ulterior
>motives for
> > wanting to be part of the steering committee?  What could he have to
>gain
> > from it, besides getting actively involved in his community trying
>to bring
> > about
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1236
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-26 14:03:18
Subject:Shadow of a Metaphysician
Message:

Joe wrote:

"because the ? about building the united front is about **criticism unity 
criticism** and exposing the true enemies of the people"

Joe, go back and actually read the theory.  The scientific, dialectical 
formulation is "unity, struggle, unity" or "unity, struggle, 
transformation."  Maybe this is the problem with your dogmatic attacks on 
Curtis, and why BOL/SWORDs methods have consistantly made united front work 
impossible.  In other words, **criticism unity criticism** is antithetical 
to building the united front/left bloc.

Matt


Original Message
----------------

paul, arguments and disagreements are real in cyberspace and on remsen ave.
sword is very interested in the peoples' campaign doing work and uniting the
community. i would suggest that the peoples' campaign should run the elected
school board campaign this year. not only is this the best time to jump on
the city machine over the question of education because of recent test
results, the cebe would work to fine tune pc for Ras' campaign and beating
the republican candidate by electing mc greasy. objectively, it would be a
better goal to have the question on the ballot by september with four
thousand newly registered voters. the office space and money can come as it
comes, but it is the campaigns that raise consciousness and organize the
community and raise the demands of the campaign, which are demands of the
community organized through the campaign.

i am all for an office/community/recreation/debate space, i am working on
getting the name of commercial ave changed to Paul Robeson Avenue as part of
the initial stage of Mosley's plan for a community center. but not a space
to punch in and punch out and that's the day. not a space that is the only
claim to the community.

jayson is not on this listserve because he was expelled from the campaign
and does not know it is available. you think jayson should apoligize to
curtis, who he knows would sell him out in a second, to join an organization
that is more interested in allying themselves with republicans than with the
people in the streets? that is the arguement, not reminders. reminders can
be erased but if you plan on coming back into NB onto the same streets, you
got some explaining to do. because you all expelled the majority of people
that have upheld the campaign platform of community control and continue to
do so. while curtis, your "untouchable", can stand confidently by and praise
the illegal selection of bright to the housing authority as he could care
less for those people living in public housing. curtis with his support of
bright is clearly pushing a republican, not community control, agenda and
you (peoples' campaign) must address that immediately. or else these streets
will not embrace you in the same fashion as last year.

as far as the community's center for culture and democracy, it had better
embrace the left because you might find some republican secratary of state
or someone with-holding necassary funding to your existance.

"splitist e-mails". i should type in all the letters of expulsion from over
the years your organizations njfo, peoples' campaign have been all too busy
compiling. while you would have none from bol/sword. a split is not an
insult as your new codes of conduct go on about, because the ? about
building the united front is about criticism unity criticism and exposing
the true enemies of the people, i.e. republicans and what they serve,
imperialism.

joe



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1237
Sender:"Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-26 14:12:41
Subject:peoples'/republicans' campaign
Message:

matt, i really have no idea what you're talking about, but you claim again 
that i make united front work impossible when it has been your organization 
that has led the splits and expelled organizers. how do you explain curtis 
supporting the selection of bright? REPUBLICAN AGENDA or agenda of community 
control? or is that the same thing to the peoples' campaign?


joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Shadow of a Metaphysician
>Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:03:18
>
>Joe wrote:
>
>"because the ? about building the united front is about **criticism unity
>criticism** and exposing the true enemies of the people"
>
>Joe, go back and actually read the theory.  The scientific, dialectical
>formulation is "unity, struggle, unity" or "unity, struggle,
>transformation."  Maybe this is the problem with your dogmatic attacks on
>Curtis, and why BOL/SWORDs methods have consistantly made united front work
>impossible.  In other words, **criticism unity criticism** is antithetical
>to building the united front/left bloc.
>
>Matt
>
>
>Original Message
>----------------
>
>paul, arguments and disagreements are real in cyberspace and on remsen ave.
>sword is very interested in the peoples' campaign doing work and uniting 
>the
>community. i would suggest that the peoples' campaign should run the 
>elected
>school board campaign this year. not only is this the best time to jump on
>the city machine over the question of education because of recent test
>results, the cebe would work to fine tune pc for Ras' campaign and beating
>the republican candidate by electing mc greasy. objectively, it would be a
>better goal to have the question on the ballot by september with four
>thousand newly registered voters. the office space and money can come as it
>comes, but it is the campaigns that raise consciousness and organize the
>community and raise the demands of the campaign, which are demands of the
>community organized through the campaign.
>
>i am all for an office/community/recreation/debate space, i am working on
>getting the name of commercial ave changed to Paul Robeson Avenue as part 
>of
>the initial stage of Mosley's plan for a community center. but not a space
>to punch in and punch out and that's the day. not a space that is the only
>claim to the community.
>
>jayson is not on this listserve because he was expelled from the campaign
>and does not know it is available. you think jayson should apoligize to
>curtis, who he knows would sell him out in a second, to join an 
>organization
>that is more interested in allying themselves with republicans than with 
>the
>people in the streets? that is the arguement, not reminders. reminders can
>be erased but if you plan on coming back into NB onto the same streets, you
>got some explaining to do. because you all expelled the majority of people
>that have upheld the campaign platform of community control and continue to
>do so. while curtis, your "untouchable", can stand confidently by and 
>praise
>the illegal selection of bright to the housing authority as he could care
>less for those people living in public housing. curtis with his support of
>bright is clearly pushing a republican, not community control, agenda and
>you (peoples' campaign) must address that immediately. or else these 
>streets
>will not embrace you in the same fashion as last year.
>
>as far as the community's center for culture and democracy, it had better
>embrace the left because you might find some republican secratary of state
>or someone with-holding necassary funding to your existance.
>
>"splitist e-mails". i should type in all the letters of expulsion from over
>the years your organizations njfo, peoples' campaign have been all too busy
>compiling. while you would have none from bol/sword. a split is not an
>insult as your new codes of conduct go on about, because the ? about
>building the united front is about criticism unity criticism and exposing
>the true enemies of the people, i.e. republicans and what they serve,
>imperialism.
>
>joe
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1238
Sender:"Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-26 14:25:00
Subject:shadow of a portrait of a shadow ptI
Message:

matt, is that really all you have to pick at with my arguement? and it is 
you that takes the arguement off the topic and into metaphysical terms and 
out of context. argue the point matt! you and now jeremy attempt to take the 
arguement competely out of itself, when it is right there plain as day.

look i'll copy it right below so you can see it. joe

paul, arguments and disagreements are real in cyberspace and on remsen ave. 
sword is very interested in the peoples' campaign doing work and uniting the 
community. i would suggest that the peoples' campaign should run the elected 
school board campaign this year. not only is this the best time to jump on 
the city machine over the question of education because of recent test 
results, the cebe would work to fine tune pc for Ras' campaign and beating 
the republican candidate by electing mc greasy. objectively, it would be a 
better goal to have the question on the ballot by september with four 
thousand newly registered voters. the office space and money can come as it 
comes, but it is the campaigns that raise consciousness and organize the
community and raise the demands of the campaign, which are demands of the 
community organized through the campaign.

i am all for an office/community/recreation/debate space, i am working on 
getting the name of commercial ave changed to Paul Robeson Avenue as part of 
the initial stage of Mosley's plan for a community center. but not a space 
to punch in and punch out and that's the day. not a space that is the only 
claim to the community.

jayson is not on this listserve because he was expelled from the campaign 
and does not know it is available. you think jayson should apoligize to 
curtis, who he knows would sell him out in a second, to join an organization 
that is more interested in allying themselves with republicans than with the 
people in the streets? that is the arguement, not reminders. reminders can 
be erased but if you plan on coming back into NB onto the same streets, you 
got some explaining to do. because you all expelled the majority of people 
that have upheld the campaign platform of community control and continue to 
do so. while curtis, your "untouchable", can stand confidently by and praise
the illegal selection of bright to the housing authority as he could care 
less for those people living in public housing. curtis with his support of 
bright is clearly pushing a republican, not community control, agenda and 
you (peoples' campaign) must address that immediately. or else these streets 
will not embrace you in the same fashion as last year.

as far as the community's center for culture and democracy, it had better 
embrace the left because you might find some republican secratary of state 
or someone with-holding necassary funding to your existance.

"splitist e-mails". i should type in all the letters of expulsion from over 
the years your organizations njfo, peoples' campaign have been all too busy 
compiling. while you would have none from bol/sword. a split is not an 
insult as your new codes of conduct go on about, because the ? about 
building the united front is about criticism unity criticism and exposing 
the true enemies of the people, i.e. republicans and what they serve, 
imperialism.

joe
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1239
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-24 00:35:16
Subject:Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:

paul, arguments and disagreements are real in cyberspace and on remsen ave.  
sword is very interested in the peoples' campaign doing work and uniting the 
community. i would suggest that the peoples' campaign should run the elected 
school board campaign this year. not only is this the best time to jump on 
the city machine over the question of education because of recent test 
results, the cebe would work to fine tune pc for Ras' campaign and beating 
the republican candidate. objectively, it would be a better goal to have the 
question on the ballot by september with four thousand newly registered 
voters. the office space and money can come as it comes, but it is the 
campaigns that raise consciousness and organize the community and raise the 
demands of the campaign, which are demands of the community organized 
through the campaign.

i am all for an office/community/recreation/debate space, i am working on 
getting the name of commercial ave changed to Paul Robeson Avenue as part of 
the initial stage of Mosley's plan for a community center.

jayson is not on this listserve because he was expelled from the campaign 
and does not know it is available. you think jayson should apoligize to 
curtis, who he knows would sell him out in a second, to join an organization 
that is more interested in allying themselves with republicans than with the 
people in the streets? that is the arguement, not reminders. reminders can 
be erased but if you plan on coming back into NB onto the same streets, you 
got some explaining to do. because you all expelled the majority of people 
that have upheld the campaign platform of community control and continue to 
do so. while curtis, your "untouchable", can stand confidently by and praise 
the selection of bright to the housing authority as he could care less for 
those people living in public housing. curtis with his support of bright is 
clearly pushing a republican not community control agenda and you (peoples' 
campaign) must address that immediately. or else these streets will not 
embrace you in the same fashion as last year.

as far as the community's center for culture and democracy, it had better 
embrace the left because you might find some republican secratary of state 
or someone with-holding necassary funding to your existance.

"splitist e-mails". i should type in all the letters of expulsion from over 
the years your organizations njfo, peoples' campaign have been all too busy 
compiling. while you would have none from bol/sword. a split is not an 
insult as your new codes of conduct go on about, because the ? about 
building the united front is about criticism unity criticism and exposing 
the true enemies of the people, i.e. republicans and what they serve, 
imperialism.

joe
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1240
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-26 18:02:39
Subject:Re: [nbpc] shadow of a metaphysician
Message:

Joe- I'm not making Jeremy's argument or Paul's arguent for that matter.  
I've been consistantly making my own argument regarding BOL/SWORD's attacks 
on Curtis.  In fact, I have spelled out where I agree with BOL/SWORDs 
criticisms of NJFO as well as how the PC was conducted and the type of 
comprimises that were made that empowered the republican's for instance.  I 
agree with you that it is an opportune time for the PC to get behind the 
struggle for peoples' democracy & comunity control in public education, and 
I also think the best way to do that would be for our forces to get involved 
with existing programs in the schools and stuggle to broaden them, make them 
more accessible, and make them more relevant to the community's needs.   
Further, a campaign for an elected board of education would be far more 
effective if the parents of the school children were involved and 
organized--something that I didn't see a lot of evidence of in the BOL led 
campaign.

I would further agree that we don't need a seperate office space/peoples 
center to do any of this, which is why I've been less than enthusiastic 
about this project becoming the main task of the PC.  That said, neither do 
I unite with Paul's position that people who criticize the plan shouldn't 
get to make use of it when if it ever materializes.  There is noone saying 
that having an independant space wouldn't be beneficial.  The criticism has 
been that 1) this project is not the best allocation of resources from NJFO 
or the PC  2) that it's not an initiative being called for by the people of 
NB (you are right to draw attention to the survey results to point this out) 
and 3)that as far as NJFO's leadership goes, this is an economist model of 
struggle that puts development of infrastructure & *$* ahead of the struggle 
in the superstructure & politics.  Also I don't unite with Paul's belittling 
of this egroup forum, and if he think's it's not up to a certain standard 
(which our egoup lists have never quite achieved even before BOL/SWORD began 
to embrace new technology) than I would expect to see less sarcastic & more 
scientific contributions from him (Paul- assuming you didn't really stop 
reading these posts, consider at least that if you disagree with everything 
written on this list, then it is good practise to learn others' lines and 
practise rebutting them effectively.)  Anyhow, Joe, getting on board Joe 
Mosley & Co.'s plan for a community center seems alot more intelligent use 
of an organizer's time and energy, and will certainly bring them closer to 
the community that they seek to represent, than the current PC plan to start 
an seperate effort that it can control.  & I fully support you and anyone 
else that is going to fight to change Commercial Ave to Paul Robeson Ave, 
and the raising of revolutionary culture in the neighborhoods.

What else- I don't really have a postition on Jayson dropping out after not 
being elected onto the steering committee, because I'm not aware of alot of 
the particulars...accept to say that you shouldn't put too much weight on 
formal leadership--you can be a very effective organizer from the ranks, 
which is where the people are.  Aside from that, I would only imagine that 
Jayson's perceptions of the People's Campaign as a whole might have been 
just slightly tainted by what he was fed by BOL as they began to attack the 
popular leadership of the newly formed and existing united front, bringing 
us back to where we started.  And your logic of **criticism unity 
criticism** that might have led you to think that it was a good thing to 
attack Curtis so dogmatically would be the same as if somebody unleashed an 
all points attack on Joe Smith like:

JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian 
trotskyite splitist bastard!!
JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian 
trotskyite splitist bastard!!
JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian 
trotskyite splitist bastard!!
JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian 
trotskyite splitist bastard!!
JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian 
trotskyite splitist bastard!!


........but of course that would not be in the spirit of Unity, 
Struggle(Criticism), Unity--so instead, I will just point it out, make my 
argument, and give you the benifit of the doubt, based on your track record 
and commitment to the struggle over the last several years, that you're 
willing to look at an error and learn from it and move on.

--Matthew



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] shadow of a portrait of a shadow ptI
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:25:00 -0000

matt, is that really all you have to pick at with my arguement? and it is
you that takes the arguement off the topic and into metaphysical terms and
out of context. argue the point matt! you and now jeremy attempt to take the
arguement competely out of itself, when it is right there plain as day.

look i'll copy it right below so you can see it. joe

paul, arguments and disagreements are real in cyberspace and on remsen ave.
sword is very interested in the peoples' campaign doing work and uniting the
community. i would suggest that the peoples' campaign should run the elected
school board campaign this year. not only is this the best time to jump on
the city machine over the question of education because of recent test
results, the cebe would work to fine tune pc for Ras' campaign and beating
the republican candidate by electing mc greasy. objectively, it would be a
better goal to have the question on the ballot by september with four
thousand newly registered voters. the office space and money can come as it
comes, but it is the campaigns that raise consciousness and organize the
community and raise the demands of the campaign, which are demands of the
community organized through the campaign.

i am all for an office/community/recreation/debate space, i am working on
getting the name of commercial ave changed to Paul Robeson Avenue as part of
the initial stage of Mosley's plan for a community center. but not a space
to punch in and punch out and that's the day. not a space that is the only
claim to the community.

jayson is not on this listserve because he was expelled from the campaign
and does not know it is available. you think jayson should apoligize to
curtis, who he knows would sell him out in a second, to join an organization
that is more interested in allying themselves with republicans than with the
people in the streets? that is the arguement, not reminders. reminders can
be erased but if you plan on coming back into NB onto the same streets, you
got some explaining to do. because you all expelled the majority of people
that have upheld the campaign platform of community control and continue to
do so. while curtis, your "untouchable", can stand confidently by and praise
the illegal selection of bright to the housing authority as he could care
less for those people living in public housing. curtis with his support of
bright is clearly pushing a republican, not community control, agenda and
you (peoples' campaign) must address that immediately. or else these streets
will not embrace you in the same fashion as last year.

as far as the community's center for culture and democracy, it had better
embrace the left because you might find some republican secratary of state
or someone with-holding necassary funding to your existance.

"splitist e-mails". i should type in all the letters of expulsion from over
the years your organizations njfo, peoples' campaign have been all too busy
compiling. while you would have none from bol/sword. a split is not an
insult as your new codes of conduct go on about, because the ? about
building the united front is about criticism unity criticism and exposing
the true enemies of the people, i.e. republicans and what they serve,
imperialism.

joe
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1241
Sender:Julie Poulos <juliepoulos@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-26 18:12:49
Subject:Agenda for the general meeting 03-31-01
Message:

(Anyone who would like to submit an additional proposal 
for the agenda for this meeting can do so by e-mailing 
to the following address: xavier.hansen@....)

NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE�S CAMPAIGN

PROPOSED AGENDA FOR THE GENERAL MEETING OF 3-31-01

2:00PM 	Introduction 

2:10PM 	Approval of the Chair � Tom DeGloma  
(alternative nominations can be proposed)

2:20PM 	Approval of the Agenda  -  (items may be added 
if supported by the majority)

2:30PM 	PEOPLE�S CENTER PROJECT � Report from the 
Committee
		
At our February meeting, we decided to gather resources 
to open a People�s Campaign Center for Culture and 
Democracy to serve as a headquarters for grassroots 
political activism and cultural activities in New 
Brunswick. The committee will brief us on the progress 
made locating a potential site and on fundraising. 
 
3:00PM 	PROPOSAL ON MEMBERSHIP AND ABSENTEE BALLOTS RULES

At our February meeting, we charged the Steering 
Committee with the task of developing clear rules for 
voting by absentee ballots. The proposal drafted by 
Flavio Komuves was distributed for review at our March 
meeting.  (See below)

3:30PM 	PROPOSALS ON THE COMING GUBERNATORIAL ELECTIONS

At our March meeting, we planned to discuss the People�s 
Campaign involvement in the upcoming gubernatorial 
elections. Several members proposed that we support the 
candidacy of Democrat Jim McGreevy against either 
Republican gubernatorial candidate (DiFranscesco or 
Schundler). The Steering Committee agrees with this 
proposal and suggests the following immediate tasks:

A) To form a committee to approach the McGreevy campaign 
and discuss with them the possible scope of our 
involvement and the resources they would make available 
to us.

B) To organize a forum/discussion for all campaign 
members and supporters to discuss our role in the 
gubernatorial elections and how supporting the candidacy 
of Jim McGreevy would further the goals of the People�s 
Campaign.

4:00PM	ELECTION OF STEERING COMMITTEE ALTERNATE MEMBERS

At our February meeting, we decided to elect two 
alternate members to the Steering Committee who could 
take the place of  permanent Steering Committee members 
should they become unable to fulfill their duties. 

4:30PM	ORGANIZING SESSION  

After we have decided on our course of action, we 
propose to focus the last half hour of the meeting on 
determing the various tasks required to carry out our 
decisions and finding volunteers to fulfill each of them.


__________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1242
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-27 11:12:07
Subject:Re: Agenda for the general meeting 03-31-01
Message:

Because the Steering Committee lacked quorum last night, amendments 
to the agenda were not possible.  However, I wanted to alert everyone 
that there at least 3 modifications being considered as an offer from 
the floor.

1. To limit the first three items to five minutes each, not ten, and 
the remaining items to 20 minutes each, not 30.  This will allow more 
time for some "real" work in the form of the organizing session 
planned for the end of the meeting.

2. To add time to receive a report from Paul McGee and Justin Boswell 
on the NBPC flyer they promised to prepare by this meeting.

3. To add a proposal that NBPC join the Coalition for Justice.  CFJ 
is a coalition in which the Edison/Metuchen NAACP, inter alia, is 
organizing an anti-police brutality march in Trenton.

Comments on the main agenda or on these or other proposed amendments 
are welcome here.













-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1243
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-27 11:37:53
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Agenda for the general meeting 03-31-01
Message:

to expand on point #3 there are many other organizations throughout the 
state on board and many more coming, see list below. the CFJ is in need of 
organizers to help spread the word (organize) for the march. locally there 
is a forum April 4 @ Paul Robeson Culture Center themed Defeat Racist 
Profiling with attention being paid to the anniversery of Dr. King's murder. 
there is a group headed to trenton on saturday to distribute literature in 
the neighborhoods and on busy sidewalks. any peoples interested in helping 
promote forum or heading to trenton on saturday can contact 
can_bush@... some poeple are travelling to trenton this 
wednesday(tomorrow) to demand the impeachment of peter verneiro, who will be 
questioned by senate committee about racist profiling.

or to just get involved with CFJ and what they might be doing to promote 
march contact larry hamm 1.973.801.0001 or minister linnie mohammad 
lmuhammad44@... statewide organizing meeting is april 7 at 2:00 in 
trenton. local organizing meeting is april 8 at 1:00 new brunswick library.

joe

here are the organizations involved to this point-

JOE- AS OF MARCH 9, 2001, THE FOLLOWING ORGANIZATIONS ARE SOME OF THE
SPONSORS OF
THE MARCH ON TRENTON:


PEOPLE'S ORGANIZATION FOR PROGRESS, NEW JERSEY STATE CONFERENCE OF NAACP 
BRANCHES,  BLACK MINISTERS' COUNCIL OF NJ, TRENTON BRANCH NAACP, NJ BLACK 
ISSUES CONVENTION, NJ  MILLION FAMILY MARCH COALITION, BLACK COPS AGAINST 
POLICE BRUTALITY, CWA LOCAL 1033,  MUHAMMAD'S MOSQUE NO. 44, TRENTON MILLION 
MAN MARCH COALITION, MUHAMMAD'S MOSQUE  NO. 25, SAVE OUR CHILDREN, IMANI 
CHURCH, HOPEWELL ANTI-RACIST, CAMDEN LOGISTICAL  ORGANIZATION COMMITTEE, 
TRENTON VICTORY ANGLES, STUDENT/WORKER ORGANIZATION FOR  REVOLUTIONARY 
DEMOCRACY, COMMITTEE TO DEFEAT RACIST PROFILING & POLICE BRUTALITY,  
SISTERHOOD & STRUGGLE, AND CHAIN BREAKERS

DOUGLASS
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1244
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-27 11:47:47
Subject:Re: Agenda for the general meeting 03-31-01
Message:

THE PROPOSAL REGARDING MEMBERSHIP OF THE CAMPAIGN AND ABSENTEE BALLOT 
REGULATIONS (REFERENCED IN THE AGENDA POSTED BY JULIE POULOS) APPEARS 
BELOW.


MEMBERSHIP OF THE CAMPAIGN

A. 	Members of the Campaign are:

	1. New Brunswick residents, age 13 or older, whether citizens 
or not, upon appearing at a general meeting or a convention meeting;

	2. Non-New Brunswick residents, age 13 or older, whether 
citizens or not, who have within the last six months, performed 
actual work or rendered actual assistance to the Campaign, upon 
attending a full general meeting or convention meeting; and

	3. Any person under age 13, whether a citizen or not, who has 
within the last six months, performed actual work or rendered actual 
assistance to the Campaign.
 

B.	A person who supports the Campaign and who has performed 
actual work for the Campaign but whose schedule does not allow them 
to attend meetings becomes a member upon submitting a notice of the 
same to the Steering Committee.

 
C. 	A member may be expelled for conduct seriously inimical to 
the purposes of the Campaign.

 
ABSENTEE BALLOT REGULATIONS
of the
NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN

	1.	Attendance at Campaign meetings is a right of all 
Campaign members.  However, because all Members may be unable to 
attend every meeting, and mindful that nonattendance at a meeting, 
without more, should not disqualify a Member from participating in 
decisions of the organization, these Absentee Ballot Regulations are 
adopted, effective immediately. 

	2.	Absentee ballots may be cast by any Member of the 
Campaign who will not be attending a meeting.  However, absentee 
ballots may only be used as to elections for campaign offices or 
candidate endorsements.  They may not be used to vote on resolutions, 
policies, or proposals. 

	3.	For an absentee ballot to be valid, the Member 
desiring to vote by absentee ballot must contact a Steering Committee 
member to inform him or her of their intentions at least 24 hours in 
advance of the meeting. 

	4.	At the outset of a meeting, each Steering Committee 
member who has been contacted about absentee ballots shall either 
file a written list or verbally declare a list, of persons who have 
contacted them to vote by absentee ballot.

	5.	An absentee ballot may be cast telephonically or by 
paper. 

	6.	A telephonic absentee vote shall be cast as follows.  
The Member shall make telephonic contact with a person present at the 
meeting.  The Member shall then orally give his or her vote to at 
least two of the election tellers responsible for counting who shall 
then record the vote.  The tellers receiving the vote are both sworn 
to secrecy with regard to how the voter voted.

	7.	A paper absentee ballot shall be cast as follows.  
The Member shall place a paper, stating the office to be voted upon 
and the candidate(s) for whom the votes are cast shall be placed into 
a sealed envelope.  On the envelope, the voter shall write or type 
the following: "I AM A MEMBER OF THE NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLES CAMPAIGN 
AND I VOTED THIS BALLOT IN SECRET" and shall sign and print their 
name directly below that.  The election tellers, after confirming 
that the absentee voter is a member and after being satisfied of the 
authenticity of the ballot, shall count any such paper ballot in 
their election returns and are sworn to secrecy with regard to how 
the voter voted.










-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1245
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-27 12:14:33
Subject:Re: [nbpc] shadow of a little-league pitcher
Message:

matt wrote: Further, a campaign for an elected board of education would be 
far more effective if the parents of the school children were involved and 
organized--something that I didn't see a lot of evidence of in the BOL led 
campaign.

BOL consisted of many city youth who had taken over and led the outreach 
committe i.e. every saturday and sunday there was 1/2 dozen nb youth out 
gathering survey's and also it was the nb youths' involvement that made the 
motorcade so successful. these two particulars were the most visible 
projects of the peoples' campaign (besides fliers on poles) these projects 
reached and touched the community. yes these youths parents were not 
organized that much outside of the childrens involvement, but that was much 
much more than previous years. so we have developed through our work, not 
just waitin around and criticizing others. the nbpc didn't even knock on one 
door to gather one valid signature to talk with parents and put the question 
of the elected school board on the ballot, so how do you expain this attempt 
to organize the parents - which you claim would be so effective. but they 
still claimed leadership of the campaign which is absolutely fucked up. the 
more nbpc lets xavier (or any others) win votes to work on issues not based 
on the survey results and campaign platform, the futher removed the campaign 
is from the community - office space or not. the mentality and consciousness 
of the nbpc must be a reflection of the consciousness of the community. 
otherwise it is just some "advanced" clique of peoples putting flags in 
their heads and claiming themselves leaders.

joe

>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] shadow of a metaphysician
>Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:02:39
>
>Joe- I'm not making Jeremy's argument or Paul's arguent for that matter.
>I've been consistantly making my own argument regarding BOL/SWORD's attacks
>on Curtis.  In fact, I have spelled out where I agree with BOL/SWORDs
>criticisms of NJFO as well as how the PC was conducted and the type of
>comprimises that were made that empowered the republican's for instance.  I
>agree with you that it is an opportune time for the PC to get behind the
>struggle for peoples' democracy & comunity control in public education, and
>I also think the best way to do that would be for our forces to get 
>involved
>with existing programs in the schools and stuggle to broaden them, make 
>them
>more accessible, and make them more relevant to the community's needs.
>Further, a campaign for an elected board of education would be far more
>effective if the parents of the school children were involved and
>organized--something that I didn't see a lot of evidence of in the BOL led
>campaign.
>
>I would further agree that we don't need a seperate office space/peoples
>center to do any of this, which is why I've been less than enthusiastic
>about this project becoming the main task of the PC.  That said, neither do
>I unite with Paul's position that people who criticize the plan shouldn't
>get to make use of it when if it ever materializes.  There is noone saying
>that having an independant space wouldn't be beneficial.  The criticism has
>been that 1) this project is not the best allocation of resources from NJFO
>or the PC  2) that it's not an initiative being called for by the people of
>NB (you are right to draw attention to the survey results to point this 
>out)
>and 3)that as far as NJFO's leadership goes, this is an economist model of
>struggle that puts development of infrastructure & *$* ahead of the 
>struggle
>in the superstructure & politics.  Also I don't unite with Paul's 
>belittling
>of this egroup forum, and if he think's it's not up to a certain standard
>(which our egoup lists have never quite achieved even before BOL/SWORD 
>began
>to embrace new technology) than I would expect to see less sarcastic & more
>scientific contributions from him (Paul- assuming you didn't really stop
>reading these posts, consider at least that if you disagree with everything
>written on this list, then it is good practise to learn others' lines and
>practise rebutting them effectively.)  Anyhow, Joe, getting on board Joe
>Mosley & Co.'s plan for a community center seems alot more intelligent use
>of an organizer's time and energy, and will certainly bring them closer to
>the community that they seek to represent, than the current PC plan to 
>start
>an seperate effort that it can control.  & I fully support you and anyone
>else that is going to fight to change Commercial Ave to Paul Robeson Ave,
>and the raising of revolutionary culture in the neighborhoods.
>
>What else- I don't really have a postition on Jayson dropping out after not
>being elected onto the steering committee, because I'm not aware of alot of
>the particulars...accept to say that you shouldn't put too much weight on
>formal leadership--you can be a very effective organizer from the ranks,
>which is where the people are.  Aside from that, I would only imagine that
>Jayson's perceptions of the People's Campaign as a whole might have been
>just slightly tainted by what he was fed by BOL as they began to attack the
>popular leadership of the newly formed and existing united front, bringing
>us back to where we started.  And your logic of **criticism unity
>criticism** that might have led you to think that it was a good thing to
>attack Curtis so dogmatically would be the same as if somebody unleashed an
>all points attack on Joe Smith like:
>
>JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
>trotskyite splitist bastard!!
>JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
>trotskyite splitist bastard!!
>JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
>trotskyite splitist bastard!!
>JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
>trotskyite splitist bastard!!
>JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
>trotskyite splitist bastard!!
>
>
>........but of course that would not be in the spirit of Unity,
>Struggle(Criticism), Unity--so instead, I will just point it out, make my
>argument, and give you the benifit of the doubt, based on your track record
>and commitment to the struggle over the last several years, that you're
>willing to look at an error and learn from it and move on.
>
>--Matthew
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] shadow of a portrait of a shadow ptI
>Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:25:00 -0000
>
>matt, is that really all you have to pick at with my arguement? and it is
>you that takes the arguement off the topic and into metaphysical terms and
>out of context. argue the point matt! you and now jeremy attempt to take 
>the
>arguement competely out of itself, when it is right there plain as day.
>
>look i'll copy it right below so you can see it. joe
>
>paul, arguments and disagreements are real in cyberspace and on remsen ave.
>sword is very interested in the peoples' campaign doing work and uniting 
>the
>community. i would suggest that the peoples' campaign should run the 
>elected
>school board campaign this year. not only is this the best time to jump on
>the city machine over the question of education because of recent test
>results, the cebe would work to fine tune pc for Ras' campaign and beating
>the republican candidate by electing mc greasy. objectively, it would be a
>better goal to have the question on the ballot by september with four
>thousand newly registered voters. the office space and money can come as it
>comes, but it is the campaigns that raise consciousness and organize the
>community and raise the demands of the campaign, which are demands of the
>community organized through the campaign.
>
>i am all for an office/community/recreation/debate space, i am working on
>getting the name of commercial ave changed to Paul Robeson Avenue as part 
>of
>the initial stage of Mosley's plan for a community center. but not a space
>to punch in and punch out and that's the day. not a space that is the only
>claim to the community.
>
>jayson is not on this listserve because he was expelled from the campaign
>and does not know it is available. you think jayson should apoligize to
>curtis, who he knows would sell him out in a second, to join an 
>organization
>that is more interested in allying themselves with republicans than with 
>the
>people in the streets? that is the arguement, not reminders. reminders can
>be erased but if you plan on coming back into NB onto the same streets, you
>got some explaining to do. because you all expelled the majority of people
>that have upheld the campaign platform of community control and continue to
>do so. while curtis, your "untouchable", can stand confidently by and 
>praise
>the illegal selection of bright to the housing authority as he could care
>less for those people living in public housing. curtis with his support of
>bright is clearly pushing a republican, not community control, agenda and
>you (peoples' campaign) must address that immediately. or else these 
>streets
>will not embrace you in the same fashion as last year.
>
>as far as the community's center for culture and democracy, it had better
>embrace the left because you might find some republican secratary of state
>or someone with-holding necassary funding to your existance.
>
>"splitist e-mails". i should type in all the letters of expulsion from over
>the years your organizations njfo, peoples' campaign have been all too busy
>compiling. while you would have none from bol/sword. a split is not an
>insult as your new codes of conduct go on about, because the ? about
>building the united front is about criticism unity criticism and exposing
>the true enemies of the people, i.e. republicans and what they serve,
>imperialism.
>
>joe
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1246
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-27 13:58:47
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Assata Shakur and the New Brunswick movement
Message:

paul, i think this is awesome. you need to seriously email this to them like 
every day. pester pester pester till someone gives us a chance!!!


>From: "Arthouse 559" <arthouse559@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Assata Shakur and the New Brunswick movement
>Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:38:35 -0500
>
>This is a message I sent to Pacifica Radio's Democracy Now! crew.  This
>followed an email exchange I had with one of their producers. I think we 
>can
>do more outreach based on this model. Check it out--Paul
>
>
>Dear Kris Abrams and the Democracy Now! crew,
>
>We corresponded on March 8th after Democracy Now! played a recording of
>Assata Shakur talking about the prison-industrial complex.  I emailed you
>right after the show and asked if I could replay the recording at a poetry
>event that I work on.
>
>Kris emailed me back and said that would be fine. She also wrote that if we
>have stuff worth covering in New Brunswick, then she wants to hear about 
>it.
>So I sent Kris the following email to her account. I wanted to resend the
>message to the democracy now! email acct.
>
>I explained that Assata Shakur is a local hero where I live, in New
>Brunswick, NJ, and that many people I know have languished in the jails and
>prisons where Assata was illegal held. The Assata recording really 
>resonates
>with what we do in New Brunswick. I thought that Democracy Now! might be
>interested in checking out the New Brunswick scene.
>
>We have a vibrant activist community in New Brunswick, and one of the
>feature events we do is called Arthouse. Arthouse is a poetry, music and
>performance art event which features local and regional talent and
>encourages people to make their own art in the name of progressive issues
>and freedom. Basically, we say everyone has a voice and they need to use it
>to fight for their rights and for the collective advancement of the
>majority.
>
>Here's my original message:
>
>Dear Kris,
>     Again I want to thank you for your email.  I want to bring up what we 
>do
>in
>     New Brunswick. There is a long history of activism in many ideological
>     traditions in New Brunswick.  We're home to Rutgers U., the state 
>school
>of
>     NJ.  During the 60s, students sat in the univ. pres's office to 
>protest
>the
>     Vietnam War.  During the 80s, large groups moved for divestment in 
>South
>     Africa and against the violence in Central America.  In the 90s,
>students
>     mobilized to take back campus space for women and fight against a 
>racist
>     Rutgers president.
>
>     New Brunswick is also the world hq of Johnson and Johnson, and the 
>city
>has
>     been characterized by slash and burn redevelopment in the years since
>the
>     race riots of the sixties. The permanent residents are 85% black and
>latino,
>     and suffer prolonged poverty, disenfranchisement and political
>repression
>     dating back to the days of Jim Crow.
>
>     Following these trends, some longstanding activist groups came 
>together
>early
>     last year to create an agenda to reverse the climate of corporate
>control and
>     political corruption that has long characterized this "Democrat" Party
>town.
>     We formed the New Brunswick People's Campaign, comprised of longtime
>     residents and students who are black, white and latino.  We developed 
>a
>     platform around community control of local institutions and civil
>rights.  We
>     ran the most successful independent challenge to the Democrat Party
>Machine
>     to date, and got 30% of the vote (despite severe repression, the most
>     successful independent ticket in the tri-State area) in the city 
>council
>     campaign on our first try.
>
>     As the city council campaign grew, we developed Arthouse as an
>independent
>     event meant to champion the need for space for people to express
>themselves.
>     We held numerous events with poetry, hip hop, folk, a live band, and a
>     diverse crowd.  The show has become one of the centerpieces of our
>diverse
>     and growing activist community.  We're fighting to liberate space in
>which
>     people can speak for their rights and can express themselves
>artistically to
>     each other.
>
>     We think our work represents a model which needs to be broadcast to
>people
>     all over the country in this age of privatization and rollbacks of
>rights.  I
>     want to invite you and a sound crew to the April Arthouse, where we'll
>spray
>     all kinds of expression related to the movement we're trying to build.
>I
>     hope to hear from you soon.
>
>     Yours, Paul McGee
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1247
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-27 13:54:02
Subject:Re: [nbpc] shadow of a little-league pitcher
Message:

joe,

your accusations that njfo manipulates the campaign to do our evil 
(republican) bidding make you hard to take seriously. it's truly laughable. 
you seriously dis the dozens of campaign activists who are not in njfo, who 
have nothing to do with njfo, who have done more work for the community than 
you know.

what i want to know, if the campaign is so contemptable, so 
'petty-bourgeois', so 'behind the people', so fucked up, then why keep 
bothering us? why be on this egroups and take part in the same discussions 
with the same people? why exactly? are you trying to win us over to the 
'right' line?

you don't even understand how far from reality your accusations are. the 
hours and hours spent canvassing, organizing, planning... these are all lost 
on you and BoL (probably because you weren't there for any of it). you will 
never acknowledge that the campaign was a serious victory because you were 
not at the helm.

kristina

the nbpc didn't even knock on one
>door to gather one valid signature to talk with parents and put the 
>question
>of the elected school board on the ballot, so how do you expain this 
>attempt
>to organize the parents - which you claim would be so effective. but they
>still claimed leadership of the campaign which is absolutely fucked up. the
>more nbpc lets xavier (or any others) win votes to work on issues not based
>on the survey results and campaign platform, the futher removed the 
>campaign
>is from the community - office space or not. the mentality and 
>consciousness
>of the nbpc must be a reflection of the consciousness of the community.
>otherwise it is just some "advanced" clique of peoples putting flags in
>their heads and claiming themselves leaders.
>
>joe
>
> >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] shadow of a metaphysician
> >Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:02:39
> >
> >Joe- I'm not making Jeremy's argument or Paul's arguent for that matter.
> >I've been consistantly making my own argument regarding BOL/SWORD's 
>attacks
> >on Curtis.  In fact, I have spelled out where I agree with BOL/SWORDs
> >criticisms of NJFO as well as how the PC was conducted and the type of
> >comprimises that were made that empowered the republican's for instance.  
>I
> >agree with you that it is an opportune time for the PC to get behind the
> >struggle for peoples' democracy & comunity control in public education, 
>and
> >I also think the best way to do that would be for our forces to get
> >involved
> >with existing programs in the schools and stuggle to broaden them, make
> >them
> >more accessible, and make them more relevant to the community's needs.
> >Further, a campaign for an elected board of education would be far more
> >effective if the parents of the school children were involved and
> >organized--something that I didn't see a lot of evidence of in the BOL 
>led
> >campaign.
> >
> >I would further agree that we don't need a seperate office space/peoples
> >center to do any of this, which is why I've been less than enthusiastic
> >about this project becoming the main task of the PC.  That said, neither 
>do
> >I unite with Paul's position that people who criticize the plan shouldn't
> >get to make use of it when if it ever materializes.  There is noone 
>saying
> >that having an independant space wouldn't be beneficial.  The criticism 
>has
> >been that 1) this project is not the best allocation of resources from 
>NJFO
> >or the PC  2) that it's not an initiative being called for by the people 
>of
> >NB (you are right to draw attention to the survey results to point this
> >out)
> >and 3)that as far as NJFO's leadership goes, this is an economist model 
>of
> >struggle that puts development of infrastructure & *$* ahead of the
> >struggle
> >in the superstructure & politics.  Also I don't unite with Paul's
> >belittling
> >of this egroup forum, and if he think's it's not up to a certain standard
> >(which our egoup lists have never quite achieved even before BOL/SWORD
> >began
> >to embrace new technology) than I would expect to see less sarcastic & 
>more
> >scientific contributions from him (Paul- assuming you didn't really stop
> >reading these posts, consider at least that if you disagree with 
>everything
> >written on this list, then it is good practise to learn others' lines and
> >practise rebutting them effectively.)  Anyhow, Joe, getting on board Joe
> >Mosley & Co.'s plan for a community center seems alot more intelligent 
>use
> >of an organizer's time and energy, and will certainly bring them closer 
>to
> >the community that they seek to represent, than the current PC plan to
> >start
> >an seperate effort that it can control.  & I fully support you and anyone
> >else that is going to fight to change Commercial Ave to Paul Robeson Ave,
> >and the raising of revolutionary culture in the neighborhoods.
> >
> >What else- I don't really have a postition on Jayson dropping out after 
>not
> >being elected onto the steering committee, because I'm not aware of alot 
>of
> >the particulars...accept to say that you shouldn't put too much weight on
> >formal leadership--you can be a very effective organizer from the ranks,
> >which is where the people are.  Aside from that, I would only imagine 
>that
> >Jayson's perceptions of the People's Campaign as a whole might have been
> >just slightly tainted by what he was fed by BOL as they began to attack 
>the
> >popular leadership of the newly formed and existing united front, 
>bringing
> >us back to where we started.  And your logic of **criticism unity
> >criticism** that might have led you to think that it was a good thing to
> >attack Curtis so dogmatically would be the same as if somebody unleashed 
>an
> >all points attack on Joe Smith like:
> >
> >JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
> >trotskyite splitist bastard!!
> >JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
> >trotskyite splitist bastard!!
> >JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
> >trotskyite splitist bastard!!
> >JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
> >trotskyite splitist bastard!!
> >JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
> >trotskyite splitist bastard!!
> >
> >
> >........but of course that would not be in the spirit of Unity,
> >Struggle(Criticism), Unity--so instead, I will just point it out, make my
> >argument, and give you the benifit of the doubt, based on your track 
>record
> >and commitment to the struggle over the last several years, that you're
> >willing to look at an error and learn from it and move on.
> >
> >--Matthew
> >
> >
> >
> >----Original Message Follows----
> >From: "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [nbpc] shadow of a portrait of a shadow ptI
> >Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:25:00 -0000
> >
> >matt, is that really all you have to pick at with my arguement? and it is
> >you that takes the arguement off the topic and into metaphysical terms 
>and
> >out of context. argue the point matt! you and now jeremy attempt to take
> >the
> >arguement competely out of itself, when it is right there plain as day.
> >
> >look i'll copy it right below so you can see it. joe
> >
> >paul, arguments and disagreements are real in cyberspace and on remsen 
>ave.
> >sword is very interested in the peoples' campaign doing work and uniting
> >the
> >community. i would suggest that the peoples' campaign should run the
> >elected
> >school board campaign this year. not only is this the best time to jump 
>on
> >the city machine over the question of education because of recent test
> >results, the cebe would work to fine tune pc for Ras' campaign and 
>beating
> >the republican candidate by electing mc greasy. objectively, it would be 
>a
> >better goal to have the question on the ballot by september with four
> >thousand newly registered voters. the office space and money can come as 
>it
> >comes, but it is the campaigns that raise consciousness and organize the
> >community and raise the demands of the campaign, which are demands of the
> >community organized through the campaign.
> >
> >i am all for an office/community/recreation/debate space, i am working on
> >getting the name of commercial ave changed to Paul Robeson Avenue as part
> >of
> >the initial stage of Mosley's plan for a community center. but not a 
>space
> >to punch in and punch out and that's the day. not a space that is the 
>only
> >claim to the community.
> >
> >jayson is not on this listserve because he was expelled from the campaign
> >and does not know it is available. you think jayson should apoligize to
> >curtis, who he knows would sell him out in a second, to join an
> >organization
> >that is more interested in allying themselves with republicans than with
> >the
> >people in the streets? that is the arguement, not reminders. reminders 
>can
> >be erased but if you plan on coming back into NB onto the same streets, 
>you
> >got some explaining to do. because you all expelled the majority of 
>people
> >that have upheld the campaign platform of community control and continue 
>to
> >do so. while curtis, your "untouchable", can stand confidently by and
> >praise
> >the illegal selection of bright to the housing authority as he could care
> >less for those people living in public housing. curtis with his support 
>of
> >bright is clearly pushing a republican, not community control, agenda and
> >you (peoples' campaign) must address that immediately. or else these
> >streets
> >will not embrace you in the same fashion as last year.
> >
> >as far as the community's center for culture and democracy, it had better
> >embrace the left because you might find some republican secratary of 
>state
> >or someone with-holding necassary funding to your existance.
> >
> >"splitist e-mails". i should type in all the letters of expulsion from 
>over
> >the years your organizations njfo, peoples' campaign have been all too 
>busy
> >compiling. while you would have none from bol/sword. a split is not an
> >insult as your new codes of conduct go on about, because the ? about
> >building the united front is about criticism unity criticism and exposing
> >the true enemies of the people, i.e. republicans and what they serve,
> >imperialism.
> >
> >joe
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
> >
> >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
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> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1248
Sender:Zofia Nowakowski <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-27 15:15:07
Subject:Board of Education Campaign
Message:

Let the record show the following with regards to the
Board of Education campaigns run by two organizations,
Campaign for an Elected Board of Education and the New
Brunswick Peoples Campaigns Committee for an Elected
School Board.

These two organizations, I believe, both conducted
necessary work towards the school board question.  

The Campaign for an Elected School Board was largely
responsible for collecting the signatures needed to
place the question on the ballot.  They held regular
meetings inviting residents to discuss the question. 
They got important press hits.  They assisted a
resident in organizing a rally for an Elected School
Board.  They conducted one or more mailings to
residents on their organized events and on the school
board question.  This activity was closely associated
to other efforts of the members and often included the
call for Revolutionary Democracy.  They also included
a photocopy of NBPC literature with the Campaign for
an Elected Board of Education's messages photocopied
onto the back, although the NBPC was not aware that
this was happening at the time.

The NBPC took another tack.  We held regular meetings
and kept in in-depth touch with a committed group of
concerned parents and teachers, including individuals
who were leaders in the school system.  Our strategy
of contacting people was through existing networks via
telephone and visits, which we found to have a high
rate of success. We developed a piece of literature
with the input of parents and teachers that one person
said was the best piece of literature put out during
the New Brunswick elections, and was highly
appreciated by teachers.  We spent hours supporting
parent and student activists working on school related
issues that directly affected their communities. We
also challenged the wording of the school board
question in court, which was confusing, and won some
gains.  Through these struggles we also got press for
the issue. Our supporters also had to spend time
explaining to individuals that literature sent out by
the CFESB was not actually from the NBPC, when many
individuals got upset upon receiving that mailing,
confused into thinking that the two organizations'
organizers and platforms were one and the same.

This is not a treatise so while I am certain I have
forgotten some pieces on both I will stop. Feel free
to add or correct any mistakes, as some of this info
is from what others have told me.

This is to say there were strengths and weaknesses in
both campaigns.  Lets learn from them and move forward.

__________________________________________________
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http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1249
Sender:Zofia Nowakowski <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-27 15:15:21
Subject:Board of Education Campaign
Message:

Let the record show the following with regards to the
Board of Education campaigns run by two organizations,
Campaign for an Elected Board of Education and the New
Brunswick Peoples Campaigns Committee for an Elected
School Board.

These two organizations, I believe, both conducted
necessary work towards the school board question.  

The Campaign for an Elected School Board was largely
responsible for collecting the signatures needed to
place the question on the ballot.  They held regular
meetings inviting residents to discuss the question. 
They got important press hits.  They assisted a
resident in organizing a rally for an Elected School
Board.  They conducted one or more mailings to
residents on their organized events and on the school
board question.  This activity was closely associated
to other efforts of the members and often included the
call for Revolutionary Democracy.  They also included
a photocopy of NBPC literature with the Campaign for
an Elected Board of Education's messages photocopied
onto the back, although the NBPC was not aware that
this was happening at the time.

The NBPC took another tack.  We held regular meetings
and kept in in-depth touch with a committed group of
concerned parents and teachers, including individuals
who were leaders in the school system.  Our strategy
of contacting people was through existing networks via
telephone and visits, which we found to have a high
rate of success. We developed a piece of literature
with the input of parents and teachers that one person
said was the best piece of literature put out during
the New Brunswick elections, and was highly
appreciated by teachers.  We spent hours supporting
parent and student activists working on school related
issues that directly affected their communities. We
also challenged the wording of the school board
question in court, which was confusing, and won some
gains.  Through these struggles we also got press for
the issue. Our supporters also had to spend time
explaining to individuals that literature sent out by
the CFESB was not actually from the NBPC, when many
individuals got upset upon receiving that mailing,
confused into thinking that the two organizations'
organizers and platforms were one and the same.

This is not a treatise so while I am certain I have
forgotten some pieces on both I will stop. Feel free
to add or correct any mistakes, as some of this info
is from what others have told me.

This is to say there were strengths and weaknesses in
both campaigns.  Lets learn from them and move forward.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1250
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-27 21:48:11
Subject:Fwd: Coalition For Justice-March on Trenton, New Jersey
Message:

get this out and get other organizations on board. if you prefer e-mail get 
it to can_bush@... and i'll forward it immediately.
there is much work to do for this march, anything you can do helps 
tremendously.

joe

THE COALITION FOR JUSTICE (CFJ), NJ, ARE AND IS, AN ALLIANCE OF GRASSROOTS, 
RELIGIOUS, CIVIL RIGHTS, LABOR, STUDENT,  AND CIVIC ORGANIZATIONS, ORDINARY 
CITIZENS, COMMUNITY LEADERS, ACTIVISTS, AND ELECTED/APPOINTED OFFICIALS IN 
THE STATE (NOT LIMITED) OF NEW JERSEY, WHO COMMUNICATED AND MET IN NOVEMBER 
2000, TO PLAN AND SEEK SUPPORT FOR A STATEWIDE MARCH ON TRENTON AGAINST 
POLICE BRUTALITY AND RACIAL PROFILING.  THIS MARCH WILL TAKE PLACE ON 
WEDNESDAY, MAY 16, 2001, 11:00AM.  THE RALLY WILL BE HELD AT THE STATE 
CAPITAL, 125 WEST STATE ST., TRENTON, NJ, 12:00 NOON.

THE CFJ IS NOT AN ANTI-POLICE ORGANIZATION, WE ARE PRO-JUSTICE.  WE CALLED 
FOR THIS MARCH OUT OF OUR CONCERNS ABOUT THE ONGOING AND MOST RECENT 
INCIDENTS OF POLICE BRUTALITY AND RACIAL PROFILING INCLUDING THE DEATH OF 
EARL FAISON WHILE IN POLICE CUSTODY IN ORANGE, NJ, THE SHOOTING DEATH OF 
STANTON CREW ON ROUTE 80, THE DEATHS OF JENNY HIGHTOWER AND NATALIE WILLIAMS 
IN TRENTON, THE SHOOTING AT 1 HISPANIC AND THREE AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN, 
HITTING THREE, ON THE NJ TURNPIKE BY STATE TROOPERS, THE KILLING OF AMADOU 
DIALLO AND PATRICK DORISMOND, NEW YORK, NY, AND OTHER POLICE BRUTALITY 
CASES.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION YOU CAN WRITE TO:  DOUGLASS TUCKER

    SAGE

    PO BOX 25248

    NEWARK, NJ 07101-7248

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1251
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-27 18:12:25
Subject:Re: [nbpc] shadow of a little-league pitcher
Message:

kristina, the nbpc did not help put the question on the ballot. nbpc did not 
collect any validated petition signatures. or do you claim to have done so, 
because that would be news. that is not to say that nbpc did no work for the 
campaign, but i was stating this to make a point with matthew. matthew 
stated that if the parents were organized the campaign would be better (more 
or less) and i agreed, but i also had to point out the fact that it was BOL 
that was knocking on doors and meeting the parents to get them involved with 
the campaign at least enough to get their signature for the petitions.

how is that i dis the dozens of people outside of njfo?

i never said that the campaign was not a victory, can you explain why you 
claim that? i am simply pointing to the platform of community control and 
the surveys of the community with my arguements. that is why i bother with 
you, because you claim to represent the community. and now, nbpc is placing 
priorities above the communities needs and demands. and that is what you 
must deal with. the fact that nbpc is attempting to completly ignore the 
surveys of the community, which is your only claim to represent it, is a 
serious mistake.

i never criticized your hours of 'canvassing, organizing and planning" on 
the other hand, and any honest person will tell you, i've supported nbpc 
100% against the city machine and encouraged others to join with you. i 
invited nbpc members to all press and community events i worked on 
throughout the campaign, not some but every one we organized. in fact with 
my latest posts, i'm encouraging nbpc to again canvass the nb neighborhoods 
to put the school board question back on the ballot, did you not read that?

but, yes njfo deserves all the criticism it gets and more for it's 
republican agenda and your time would be better spent addressing it. not 
avoiding it and trying to throw it back in my face where it don't belong. 
but you can laugh if you want, comfortably out of town.

tenants rights now! republicans in the garbage can!
joe


>From: "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] shadow of a little-league pitcher
>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:54:02
>
>joe,
>
>your accusations that njfo manipulates the campaign to do our evil
>(republican) bidding make you hard to take seriously. it's truly laughable.
>you seriously dis the dozens of campaign activists who are not in njfo, who
>have nothing to do with njfo, who have done more work for the community 
>than
>you know.
>
>what i want to know, if the campaign is so contemptable, so
>'petty-bourgeois', so 'behind the people', so fucked up, then why keep
>bothering us? why be on this egroups and take part in the same discussions
>with the same people? why exactly? are you trying to win us over to the
>'right' line?
>
>you don't even understand how far from reality your accusations are. the
>hours and hours spent canvassing, organizing, planning... these are all 
>lost
>on you and BoL (probably because you weren't there for any of it). you will
>never acknowledge that the campaign was a serious victory because you were
>not at the helm.
>
>kristina
>
>the nbpc didn't even knock on one
> >door to gather one valid signature to talk with parents and put the
> >question
> >of the elected school board on the ballot, so how do you expain this
> >attempt
> >to organize the parents - which you claim would be so effective. but they
> >still claimed leadership of the campaign which is absolutely fucked up. 
>the
> >more nbpc lets xavier (or any others) win votes to work on issues not 
>based
> >on the survey results and campaign platform, the futher removed the
> >campaign
> >is from the community - office space or not. the mentality and
> >consciousness
> >of the nbpc must be a reflection of the consciousness of the community.
> >otherwise it is just some "advanced" clique of peoples putting flags in
> >their heads and claiming themselves leaders.
> >
> >joe
> >
> > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] shadow of a metaphysician
> > >Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:02:39
> > >
> > >Joe- I'm not making Jeremy's argument or Paul's arguent for that 
>matter.
> > >I've been consistantly making my own argument regarding BOL/SWORD's
> >attacks
> > >on Curtis.  In fact, I have spelled out where I agree with BOL/SWORDs
> > >criticisms of NJFO as well as how the PC was conducted and the type of
> > >comprimises that were made that empowered the republican's for 
>instance.
> >I
> > >agree with you that it is an opportune time for the PC to get behind 
>the
> > >struggle for peoples' democracy & comunity control in public education,
> >and
> > >I also think the best way to do that would be for our forces to get
> > >involved
> > >with existing programs in the schools and stuggle to broaden them, make
> > >them
> > >more accessible, and make them more relevant to the community's needs.
> > >Further, a campaign for an elected board of education would be far more
> > >effective if the parents of the school children were involved and
> > >organized--something that I didn't see a lot of evidence of in the BOL
> >led
> > >campaign.
> > >
> > >I would further agree that we don't need a seperate office 
>space/peoples
> > >center to do any of this, which is why I've been less than enthusiastic
> > >about this project becoming the main task of the PC.  That said, 
>neither
> >do
> > >I unite with Paul's position that people who criticize the plan 
>shouldn't
> > >get to make use of it when if it ever materializes.  There is noone
> >saying
> > >that having an independant space wouldn't be beneficial.  The criticism
> >has
> > >been that 1) this project is not the best allocation of resources from
> >NJFO
> > >or the PC  2) that it's not an initiative being called for by the 
>people
> >of
> > >NB (you are right to draw attention to the survey results to point this
> > >out)
> > >and 3)that as far as NJFO's leadership goes, this is an economist model
> >of
> > >struggle that puts development of infrastructure & *$* ahead of the
> > >struggle
> > >in the superstructure & politics.  Also I don't unite with Paul's
> > >belittling
> > >of this egroup forum, and if he think's it's not up to a certain 
>standard
> > >(which our egoup lists have never quite achieved even before BOL/SWORD
> > >began
> > >to embrace new technology) than I would expect to see less sarcastic &
> >more
> > >scientific contributions from him (Paul- assuming you didn't really 
>stop
> > >reading these posts, consider at least that if you disagree with
> >everything
> > >written on this list, then it is good practise to learn others' lines 
>and
> > >practise rebutting them effectively.)  Anyhow, Joe, getting on board 
>Joe
> > >Mosley & Co.'s plan for a community center seems alot more intelligent
> >use
> > >of an organizer's time and energy, and will certainly bring them closer
> >to
> > >the community that they seek to represent, than the current PC plan to
> > >start
> > >an seperate effort that it can control.  & I fully support you and 
>anyone
> > >else that is going to fight to change Commercial Ave to Paul Robeson 
>Ave,
> > >and the raising of revolutionary culture in the neighborhoods.
> > >
> > >What else- I don't really have a postition on Jayson dropping out after
> >not
> > >being elected onto the steering committee, because I'm not aware of 
>alot
> >of
> > >the particulars...accept to say that you shouldn't put too much weight 
>on
> > >formal leadership--you can be a very effective organizer from the 
>ranks,
> > >which is where the people are.  Aside from that, I would only imagine
> >that
> > >Jayson's perceptions of the People's Campaign as a whole might have 
>been
> > >just slightly tainted by what he was fed by BOL as they began to attack
> >the
> > >popular leadership of the newly formed and existing united front,
> >bringing
> > >us back to where we started.  And your logic of **criticism unity
> > >criticism** that might have led you to think that it was a good thing 
>to
> > >attack Curtis so dogmatically would be the same as if somebody 
>unleashed
> >an
> > >all points attack on Joe Smith like:
> > >
> > >JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
> > >trotskyite splitist bastard!!
> > >JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
> > >trotskyite splitist bastard!!
> > >JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
> > >trotskyite splitist bastard!!
> > >JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
> > >trotskyite splitist bastard!!
> > >JOE SAID CRITICISM UNITY CRITISISM!! He's an unrepentant sectarian
> > >trotskyite splitist bastard!!
> > >
> > >
> > >........but of course that would not be in the spirit of Unity,
> > >Struggle(Criticism), Unity--so instead, I will just point it out, make 
>my
> > >argument, and give you the benifit of the doubt, based on your track
> >record
> > >and commitment to the struggle over the last several years, that you're
> > >willing to look at an error and learn from it and move on.
> > >
> > >--Matthew
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----Original Message Follows----
> > >From: "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [nbpc] shadow of a portrait of a shadow ptI
> > >Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:25:00 -0000
> > >
> > >matt, is that really all you have to pick at with my arguement? and it 
>is
> > >you that takes the arguement off the topic and into metaphysical terms
> >and
> > >out of context. argue the point matt! you and now jeremy attempt to 
>take
> > >the
> > >arguement competely out of itself, when it is right there plain as day.
> > >
> > >look i'll copy it right below so you can see it. joe
> > >
> > >paul, arguments and disagreements are real in cyberspace and on remsen
> >ave.
> > >sword is very interested in the peoples' campaign doing work and 
>uniting
> > >the
> > >community. i would suggest that the peoples' campaign should run the
> > >elected
> > >school board campaign this year. not only is this the best time to jump
> >on
> > >the city machine over the question of education because of recent test
> > >results, the cebe would work to fine tune pc for Ras' campaign and
> >beating
> > >the republican candidate by electing mc greasy. objectively, it would 
>be
> >a
> > >better goal to have the question on the ballot by september with four
> > >thousand newly registered voters. the office space and money can come 
>as
> >it
> > >comes, but it is the campaigns that raise consciousness and organize 
>the
> > >community and raise the demands of the campaign, which are demands of 
>the
> > >community organized through the campaign.
> > >
> > >i am all for an office/community/recreation/debate space, i am working 
>on
> > >getting the name of commercial ave changed to Paul Robeson Avenue as 
>part
> > >of
> > >the initial stage of Mosley's plan for a community center. but not a
> >space
> > >to punch in and punch out and that's the day. not a space that is the
> >only
> > >claim to the community.
> > >
> > >jayson is not on this listserve because he was expelled from the 
>campaign
> > >and does not know it is available. you think jayson should apoligize to
> > >curtis, who he knows would sell him out in a second, to join an
> > >organization
> > >that is more interested in allying themselves with republicans than 
>with
> > >the
> > >people in the streets? that is the arguement, not reminders. reminders
> >can
> > >be erased but if you plan on coming back into NB onto the same streets,
> >you
> > >got some explaining to do. because you all expelled the majority of
> >people
> > >that have upheld the campaign platform of community control and 
>continue
> >to
> > >do so. while curtis, your "untouchable", can stand confidently by and
> > >praise
> > >the illegal selection of bright to the housing authority as he could 
>care
> > >less for those people living in public housing. curtis with his support
> >of
> > >bright is clearly pushing a republican, not community control, agenda 
>and
> > >you (peoples' campaign) must address that immediately. or else these
> > >streets
> > >will not embrace you in the same fashion as last year.
> > >
> > >as far as the community's center for culture and democracy, it had 
>better
> > >embrace the left because you might find some republican secratary of
> >state
> > >or someone with-holding necassary funding to your existance.
> > >
> > >"splitist e-mails". i should type in all the letters of expulsion from
> >over
> > >the years your organizations njfo, peoples' campaign have been all too
> >busy
> > >compiling. while you would have none from bol/sword. a split is not an
> > >insult as your new codes of conduct go on about, because the ? about
> > >building the united front is about criticism unity criticism and 
>exposing
> > >the true enemies of the people, i.e. republicans and what they serve,
> > >imperialism.
> > >
> > >joe
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> > >
> > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1252
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-28 07:56:36
Subject:Re: Agenda for the general meeting 03-31-01
Message:

groovemeister wrote:
C.       A member may be expelled for conduct seriously inimical to
the purposes of the Campaign.

if the purpose of the campaign is democratic community control over the 
istitutions that govern the community, i move that all those that claim this 
campaign "is not here to tear down any political machines" be immediately 
investigated.

further, if the work of the campaign is to reflect the needs of the
community based on 1000 survey results of input, i move that all campaign 
activities must be developed around this input. the work for an elected 
school board would then primarily replace that work for a center for out of 
towners to punch in at. as the community's top survey response IS community 
control over education and nothing has been put forward for center from the 
community. therefor all persons placing their own superficial understanding 
of NB activism in front of the input of the community must be immediately 
investigated.

these investigations should be carried out openly by nbpc members to 
immediately right the ship and begin sailing towards the objective goal for 
community control. although it seems as though this campaign is determined 
on ignoring the community and puting forward personal initiatives in place, 
i feel that all can be corrected but only through practical tasks. not in 
meetings, rather on the streets in campaigns for the community. otherwise 
the community is suffering and nbpc is winning over the enemies of the 
people.

joe
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1253
Sender:"Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-28 23:03:57
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
Message:



>From: jagross66@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the 
>right!
>Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:42:57 -0000
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@h...>
>wrote:
>
>A few points ought to be made in response:
>
>1)  Your group seems to endlessly put Mr. Hankins up on a pedestal,
>which comes across as boundlessly weird.  Since you're all, presuming,
>in your early to mid 20's, and he's a NBHS student of about 17 years
>of age, something seems ethically out-of-whack.
>
>2)  The (first) steering committee was elected democratically at the
>May convention by a relatively large meeting of individuals of a
>fairly evenly balanced variety of backgrounds and areas of residence
>in the city.  Jason Hankins was nominated, and that nomination was
>submitted to a vote fairly.  He gave a speech, like everyone else.
>And then he did not win the election.  How do you read a conspiracy
>against him into this?  Is democracy only valid on principle if you
>win?
>
>3)  It could also be argued that it is not surprising that he lost.  I
>recall his speech, and it was lousy.  He was hunched over the podium.
>He was sort of mumbling.  He recited some stock lines about
>'democracy' that sounded like they had been spoonfed.  I think they
>were mostly slogans straight off of Block on Lock's flyers.  In short,
>he gave the audience, many of whom had no personal acquaintance with
>the majority of the nominees, no reason to vote for him.  And he gave
>them reasons, in turn, to not vote for him.  He certainly deserved to
>prove that he was more mature than his (chronological) age would
>suggest him as being.  But he did not quite prove himself to transcend
>that presumption.
>
>I apologize if this does not seem _superbly_ polite, but I think all
>of the points above are quite worth making, and entirely valid.  I
>only mention them because nobody has said them as of yet.
>
>Yours,
>
>Jeremy
>
>
> > Are you trying to say that Jason had some kind of ulterior motives
>for
> > wanting to be a part of the steering committee?  What could he
>possibly gain
> > from this, except by actively fighting for control of his  own
>community?
> > Was he angling for a republican foothold in NB? The  People's
>Campaign
> > should be an accurate reflection of the community that it is trying
>to
> > represent. Is Frank a better representative of the people in NB than
>Jason,
> > or was/is the office space that did "mountains more for the
>campaign" more
> > important than what the campaign was supposed to be about- Community
> > Control.  Maybe you should reclarify what the purpose of the PC is
>and who
> > it is to consist of. People from the community who are fighting for
>control
> > over their community or republicans who can get funds and office
>spaces?
> > You sold Jason out for $ and an office and he knows it.  That's why
>he
> > "split" from the campaign.  But what really happened is the campaign
>split
> > from him. After that, to imply that Jason was angling for this
>position for
> > some kind of personal gain is disgusting.  Take that argument to the
>streets
> > and off this board and see how far you get.  The only person I see
>having
> > gained is Frank with his stolen appointment on the housing
>authority.  The
> > people's campaign definitely didn't gain anything unless you
>consider
> > helping to put your enemy in a position of power or turning your
>back on NB
> > youth to be gains. But maybe I just don't understand what
>"mountains" the
> > office did for the campaign and you'd care to explain. Otherwise you
>should
> > "help but comment".
> >
> >                                       Tamara
> >
> >
> > >From: "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@h...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on
>the
> > >right!
> > >Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:52:14
> > >
> > >i can't help but comment:
> > >
> > >i am finding these versions of history pretty funny. doesn't it
>strike you
> > >as questionable that the "budding youth activist" split the
>Campaign once
> > >he
> > >wasn't elected to the steering committee? why is that exactly? why
>would I
> > >want someone like that to be my leader?
> > >
> > >also, not understanding why, at times, it is necessary to ally
>yourself
> > >with
> > >your foe (ie. a republican) in the context of the general situation
>( a
> > >democratic party machine) indicates your narrow understanding of
>political
> > >development. that is the nature of tactical alliances. gaining the
>office
> > >space did mountains more for the campaign than you understand. just
>like
> > >raising money is a necessary task, so is making sure the practical
>elements
> > >of a campaign come to pass.
> > >
> > >ps. the clever little nicknames are annoying.
> > >
> > >kristina
> > >
> > > >
> > > >at the may'00 peoples' campaign convention, budding local youth
> > > >activist jason hankins was nominated by block on lock for the
>final
> > > >executive board seat. njfo ("for revolutionary democracy &
> > > >socialism"), fiending (as now)after "office space" (rather than
> > > >peoples' organization), backed the nb republican party chair dim
>liar
> > > >(after(!) he had challenged joe smith's election as chair to
>elected
> > > >board of education committee, on grounds that he is a
>communist.).
> > > >
> > > >hankins lost & left, with him the outreach committee
>(motorcades...),
> > > >and possible victory.
> > > >
> > > >rather then relying on the people, njfo encouraged activists to
>enlist
> > > >  as republican party members for election day privileges. dim
>liar
> > > >pimped this "artificial" support to his now real position.
> > > >
> > > >rather than unite(with the people!), organize(the people!), seize
> > > >power!, it is the republicans who have seized the position of
>power
> > > >out of the "peoples'" campaign.
> > > >
> > > >the nb "left bloc" must identify itself immediately, & drive the
>right
> > > >from its organizations.  all imposters must be exposed and
>isolated.
> > > >
> > > >dim liar must resign now! his illegal appointment & back george
> > > >berry's call for elected resident representation.
> > > >
> > > >all eviction proceedings must immediately cease against remaining
> > > >projects residents (court hearing is 5april).
> > > >
> > > >skunk soaries must immediately stop obstructing the $500,000
>allocated
> > > >  by the state legislature to crossroads theater.
> > > >
> > > >protest 4pm sunday 218 george st, residence of nb republican
>party
> > > >chair dim liar.
> > > >
> > > >republicans in the garbage can! peoples' war on the right!
> > > >revolutionaries unite! with the people.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >Can you expain why it's "boundlessly weird" to support NB youth gettin 
>involved with the struggle for community control? I think it's "weirder" 
>for the PC to support republicans and turn their backs on the youth. Maybe 
>if Jason's posture was better and his speech polished then he would have 
>won- oh, but he couldn't get an office space so probably not- right?
> > >_________Tamara________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> > What are you trying to say? That Jason had some kind of ulterior
>motives for
> > wanting to be part of the steering committee?  What could he have to
>gain
> > from it, besides getting actively involved in his community trying
>to bring
> > about
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1254
Sender:"William Rubin" <bilirubin33@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-29 12:25:38
Subject:huhu huhuhu my finger smells like poopie
Message:

PEOPLES WAW ON THUH RIGHT

KAW MAWX IS MY HERO

MAWX, YEAH MAWX. REV-UH-LUTION.

you don like mawx?  what's that suppos'd to mean? where can I get njfo's 
position on the appointment of cliff's weebus in my mowff???

I WROTE A POEM
IT'S CALLED "FOR MAWX"

FOR MAWX
---------
mawx is my hero
kawl is my friend
my mowff's full ah pee
and that is the end


yours,

Bill Rubin
aka bilirubin

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1255
Sender:Zofia Nowakowski <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-29 13:19:55
Subject:Yahoogroup
Message:

This yahoogroup continues to escalate in its level of
disrespect for people and indecency.  Many members of
the campaign have unsubscribed or simply remained
mute, blown away for along time at the rantings that
get posted on this site, often by people who are not
even members of the campaign.

From its inception, the yahoogroup was designed as an
open space for communication, to encourage openness
and dialogue.  We very specifically discussed the need
to not have discussion closed off from anyone inside
or outside of the campaign, in order to promote
openness and honesty.  Unfortunately, "dialogue" has
degenerated to diatribe, and for a long time, people
have been attacked, shut out by voluminous ranting, or
have left the list.  Many of those remaining on the
list including myself have not reacted to these
diatribes, assuming that a response would only incite
more.  At some point, though, in my opinion, enough is
enough.

This list does not represent the membership of the New
Brunswick Peoples Campaign.  I propose that this
Saturday we discuss what can be done to turn this
listserve back in to a forum that encourages sharing
of information and ideas.

Zofia Nowakowski

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1256
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-29 13:19:57
Subject:Fwd: from anna
Message:

let's see if this attachment opens...


>From: "love not fear" <love_not_fear@...>
>To: krisbas@...
>Subject: from anna
>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:11:31 -0500
>
>DevCo document.  Please post.  Thank you.  =)  Anna

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1257
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-29 16:20:36
Subject:Attachments
Message:

Kristina:

Regrettably, this list does not allow for attachments.  I don't know 
who the list owner is, or whether s/he even has this power, but if 
possible it should be altered.  Does anyone else have some answers in 
that regard

On a related note, where are you and Anna getting the files in 
question?  They seem interesting and if I can subscribe to that 
source I would like to do so.









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1258
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-29 16:47:09
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Attachments
Message:

Anna Wargo was trying to forward some interesting research done on DevCo by 
a friend of hers. I think we will get a hold of some hard copies of this 
document, and then make them available in person. that might be easier. will 
let you know what happens.


>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Attachments
>Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 21:20:36 -0000
>
>Kristina:
>
>Regrettably, this list does not allow for attachments.  I don't know
>who the list owner is, or whether s/he even has this power, but if
>possible it should be altered.  Does anyone else have some answers in
>that regard
>
>On a related note, where are you and Anna getting the files in
>question?  They seem interesting and if I can subscribe to that
>source I would like to do so.
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1259
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-29 17:36:47
Subject:defeat racist profiling
Message:

anyone who hasn't had the chance to see the home news today, thursday, 
should go to homenews tribune.com (two words) and click on east brunswick 
home news tribune. they have a photo of a banner "defeat racist profiling" 
that i brought to trenton yesterday. the picture in the actual paper is 
front page and huge and headline reads, "verneiro in hotseat". the 
questioning of verneiro was tremendous to be a part of and i encourage all 
to get involved with this march on trenton may 16. SWORD will be heading to 
trenton this saturday to meet up with nation of islam and community members 
to flier and reach out to community in order to build local base/support for 
march. also, locally the committee to defeat racist profiling is organizing 
a forum on april 4 to commemorate the racist murder of a true civil rights 
organizer, king jr. the forum is themed defeat racist profiling and police 
brutality and will be held in the multi-purpose room of the paul robeson 
cultural center. we embrace the attitude "defeat" because that is what it 
will take. slavery did not just stop one day, it was defeated (at least that 
phase) and now we again must approach racist proiling and police brutality 
with the same manner. contact can_bush@... for further deatails 
about events. help promote these events, contact me and i'll drop fliers at 
your house to help promote local events.

joe
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1260
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-29 19:21:14
Subject:NBPC's letter regarding NB redistricting
Message:

TO THE EDITOR:
(FOR PUBLICATION)

New Jersey's Election Law requires a county board of
elections to redistrict a town whenever voting
districts there become too large, too small, or too
inconvenient for voters.  The March 23 Home News
reported that the Middlesex Board of Elections
recently shirked these legal duties as to New
Brunswick.  The Board's regrettable inaction virtually
assures that chaos and confusion will again rule in
polling sites here as in the November 2000 election. 

More regrettable, however, are the false and
misleading comments of William Hamilton, New Brunswick
City Attorney in connection with the redistricting. 
Hamilton claimed he proposed to carve out three
Rutgers dormitories from a voting district and place
them in a new district.  But Hamilton falsely blames
Frank Bright, New Brunswick's Republican Party for
scuttling this plan by claiming Bright did not support
the proposal.  Hamilton's claim is untrue, as Mr.
Bright fully supported the plan to place the student
dormitories into a new voting area.  

Hamilton also fails to admit that he ignored a more
expansive plan offered by Mr. Bright that better
promoted constitutional voting rights in the city, not
just for students but for all residents and
demonstrated respect for and compliance with state
law.  Hamilton also fails to tell that his own plan
was devised without letting any important city group
(e.g. students, People's Campaign, or the Republican
Party) participate in the process.

Neither the City government nor the Middlesex Board
made any effort to foster open, democratic
participation in the redistricting plan. This is a
monumental mistake and the Board and the City
government should admit their errors and include the
taxpaying electorate next time instead of shutting
them out. 

FLAVIO L. KOMUVES
General Counsel
New Brunswick People's Campaign
P.O. Box 131
New Brunswick, NJ 08903
609/987-6854 work









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1261
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-03-27 12:39:54
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Agenda for the general meeting 03-31-01
Message:

groovemeister wrote:
C.       A member may be expelled for conduct seriously inimical to
the purposes of the Campaign.

if the purpose of the campaign is democratic community control over the 
istitutions that govern the community, i move that all those that claim this 
campaign "is not here to tear down any political machines" be immediately 
investigated.

further, if the work of the campaign is to reflect the needs of the 
community based on 1000 survey results of input, i move that all campaign 
activities must be developed around this input. the work for an elected 
school board would then primarily replace that work for a center for out of 
towners to punch in at. as the community's top survey response IS community 
control over education and nothing has been put forward for center from the 
community. therefor all persons placing their own superficial understanding 
of NB activism in front of the input of the community must be immediately 
investigated.

these investigations should be carried out openly by campaign members to 
immediately right the ship and begin sailing towards the objective goal for 
community control. although it seems as though this campaign is determined 
on ignoring the community and puting forward personal initiatives in place, 
i feel that all can be corrected but only through practical tasks. not in 
meetings, rather on the streets in campaigns for the community. otherwise 
the community is suffering and nbpc is winning over the enemies of the 
people.

joe
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1262
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-30 15:08:38
Subject:nj republicans kill anti-profiling bills...
Message:

Minority lawmakers stage
                racial profiling protest 

                By JOHN P. McALPIN
                The Associated Press
                3/29/01 7:25 PM

                TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- The day after the former 
attorney
                general said he couldn't remember key details about 
racial
                profiling, minority lawmakers tried to force the state
                Assembly to vote on long-delayed bills to end the 
practice.

                One by one, minority lawmakers Thursday asked the
                Assembly to act on bills designed to stop racial 
profiling by
                police or aid reform efforts. 

                Many of the bills have been stalled in Assembly
                committees for more than a year. Members of the black
                and Hispanic legislative caucus interrupted the day's 
voting
                session, demanding to know the status of the bills. 

                Among the proposals is a bill to create an independent
                prosecutor for racial profiling and to create a 
specific law
                against the practice. 

                In a series of votes, the Republican-controlled 
Assembly
                tabled each bill by a count of 41-39. That action sent 
them
                back to the Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee. 

                Black Democrats in the Assembly tried to use house 
rules
                to fast-track bills regarding racial profiling 
directly to the
                floor for a full vote. 

                Assemblyman Joseph Charles, D-Hudson, said he was
                disappointed his efforts failed on a party-line vote. 

                "I would have hoped that at least some members of the
                other party would have supported us," he said. 

                "We were trying to draw attention to the fact that 
since
                August 1999, the black and Latino Democratic caucus 
has
                recommended consideration of bills that would add
                protections from racial profiling and institutional 
racism in
                the state police. 

                "Too much time has passed without affirmative action," 
he
                said. 

                Charles said Democrats wrote letters to Republican
                committee chairmen and leaders last fall asking for 
bill
                consideration, but received no answer. 

                Through a spokesman, Assembly Speaker Jack Collins
                declined comment. 

                The spokesman, Chuck Lietgeb, said the speaker opposed
                the Democratic procedure because it's his practice to
                never allow a bill to skip the committee process, not
                because he opposes the bills. 

                "The rules are something he feels strongly about," he 
said.

                Lietgeb said it's up to the chairman of the Law and 
Public
                Safety Committee, Assemblyman James W. Holzapfel,
                R-Ocean, to explain why there hasn't been any movement
                on the bills before now. Holzapfel was out of the 
country
                Thursday. 

                Caucus members said they acted Thursday as a response
                to testimony offered the day before by former Attorney
                General Peter G. Verniero. 

                Before the Senate Judiciary Committee, Verniero said 
he
                could not recall details about key meetings, memos or
                documents dealing with racial profiling. 

                Verniero defended his department's response to racial
                profiling, but admitted he should have asked the state
                police harder questions sooner. 

                In April 1999, Verniero admitted state troopers were
                engaging in racial profiling in a report issued one 
year after
                two white troopers fired 11 shots at four unarmed 
minority
                men during a traffic stop on the turnpike. 

                Verniero's report and indictments against those two
                troopers for falsifying records were released just 
after he
                was nominated to the state Supreme Court by former 
Gov.
                Christie Whitman. 








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1263
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-30 16:28:28
Subject:build a national organization of revolutionaries.
Message:

It is good to hear of motion toward the re-establishment of Unity & 
Struggle.

Supporting the current plan to begin with a series of ideological 
pamphlets, supplemented by more frequent (e.g. bi-weekly) leaflets, 
toward establishing a network of production & distribution, we would 
also propose to publish larger (special) editions when conditions 
suggest broader interest.  

Specifically, we think that the developing organization toward the 
March on Trenton (16 May) to Defeat Racist Profiling & Police 
Brutality provides a unique (historic?), local opportunity to lend 
advanced revolutionary analysis to mass, democratic action, while 
simultaneously offering U&S a broad, if temporary, network of 
distribution.  That is, we could use U&S to promote the March, and use 
the March to promote U&S, without interrupting the current production 
plan.

Principally, our concern is to re-establish U&S, to regularize and 
expand its production.  We share its general anti-imperialist 
positions and goal of developing a national organization of 
revolutionaries.  We have criticisms and concerns, disagreements and 
differences, which we also agree would be best resolved through the 
practice of organizing the publication, &tc.

Our proposal targets a MayDay (1 May) Release. (10,000? copies-12? 
Pages-Sp/Eng).  Roughly, this is 2 weeks for submissions, 1 wk layout, 
1 wk printing, which we see as reasonable, assuming support.

Articles suggested are: analysis of the March (national oppression & 
self-determination, hopefully by its Chair, Larry Hamm), a prominent 
Women's space (sex-oppression & self-determination), analysis of 
gubenatorial election (peoples' war on the right, workers' party), 
analysis of Education profiling in NJ (democratic revolution), & 
throughout promoting ideological clarity and cultural revolution.

We think that the apparent inactivity of U&S reflects weakness in our 
theory & practice, that this also must be studied and corrected, 
leading to greater strength.

Revolutionaries Unite! Win the Advanced to Communism!

Cliff Smith
Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
732.214.8828
cliffsmith69@hotmail.com









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1264
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-30 19:28:12
Subject:anti-imperialists, unite.
Message:

Proposal toward Rectification around Peoples' Democracy, Against 
Imperialism

The world contradiction of the People vs. Imperialism calls us to 
organize the broadest democratic front, clearly stating the principles 
and class character of this front.

The spontaneously emerging peoples' struggle is threatened most 
greatly by its inability to distinguish its enemies from its allies.  
That is, the movement is too frequently tricked by its "leaders" into 
supporting positions which threaten it.  For example, Ralph Nader 
objectively strengthened imperialism's position, while claiming to 
represent a peoples', anti-corporate position.  This is because of the 
failure of revolutionaries to develop and promote a consistent, 
working-class analysis.

The People's Campaign developed from an anti-imperialist, democratic 
spirit, within the developing local movement.  The formalization of 
this spirit into organization is its achievement.  The PC, however, 
neglected to clarify this spirit with open, class-based principles.  
This is its failure.  At the moment, the PC, like the peoples' 
movement, is being pulled in opposite directions.  The crisis 
dialectic of danger and opportunity.

Because the  principal enemy was identified as the local Democratic 
Party organization, and not the imperialist class, the door was left 
open for imperialism's more dangerous representatives to maneuver 
within the  organization.  To manipulate rising dissent to objectively 
strengthen the enemy.  This manipulation was done by Republican Party 
operatives in conjunction with free-lance opportunists.  When 
challenged, the PC chose unity with imperialists over unity with 
revolutionaries. Which is the greater threat, "unprincipled criticism" 
or imperialist positions (intentional or not)?  The "left wing" or the 
"right"?

It is stated by some PC members that we are united  against the 
position "improve, don't break, imperialist political organization, 
&tc."  They state we are not united over whether this statement was an 
"out-of-context, unfortunate, nave, contrary-to-years-of-practice, 
mis-statement" to be nurturingly criticized (which, by the way, has 
never been done in any open way by those who claim to fault our 
"method"), or whether it was an intentional gesture, a sell-out, 
reflected by other statements and actions, to be exposed and attacked. 
 This is open to debate.  What is not open to debate is the fact that 
the position stands, it has not been withdrawn. While we can argue 
intentions, ultimately we must organize around positions.

How can the anti-imperialists rectify our division?  We propose first, 
that the united front formation must organize around stated 
principles.  Not petty-bourgeois "anti-Democrat" confusion, but 
working-class "anti-Imperialism" clarity.  Second, that we must also 
put forward our direction for the united front and campaigns.  That 
the objective is not, primarily, office$ and officer$, but the 
development of a national Peoples' Democratic Workers' Party, to, yes, 
break, not improve,  both imperialist political parties.  Finally, for 
anyone who genuinely faults our method against objectively imperialist 
positions, they can make no criticism of our approach until they also, 
genuinely bring forward and apply their "better", more "principled" 
method.

The people vs. imperialism
Unite, don't split.
Peoples' war on the right.
Build the Peoples' Democratic Workers' Party.

Cliff Smith
Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
30 March, 2001








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1265
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-30 19:28:48
Subject:anti-imperialists, unite.
Message:

Proposal toward Rectification around Peoples' Democracy, Against 
Imperialism

The world contradiction of the People vs. Imperialism calls us to 
organize the broadest democratic front, clearly stating the principles 
and class character of this front.

The spontaneously emerging peoples' struggle is threatened most 
greatly by its inability to distinguish its enemies from its allies.  
That is, the movement is too frequently tricked by its "leaders" into 
supporting positions which threaten it.  For example, Ralph Nader 
objectively strengthened imperialism's position, while claiming to 
represent a peoples', anti-corporate position.  This is because of the 
failure of revolutionaries to develop and promote a consistent, 
working-class analysis.

The People's Campaign developed from an anti-imperialist, democratic 
spirit, within the developing local movement.  The formalization of 
this spirit into organization is its achievement.  The PC, however, 
neglected to clarify this spirit with open, class-based principles.  
This is its failure.  At the moment, the PC, like the peoples' 
movement, is being pulled in opposite directions.  The crisis 
dialectic of danger and opportunity.

Because the  principal enemy was identified as the local Democratic 
Party organization, and not the imperialist class, the door was left 
open for imperialism's more dangerous representatives to maneuver 
within the  organization.  To manipulate rising dissent to objectively 
strengthen the enemy.  This manipulation was done by Republican Party 
operatives in conjunction with free-lance opportunists.  When 
challenged, the PC chose unity with imperialists over unity with 
revolutionaries. Which is the greater threat, "unprincipled criticism" 
or imperialist positions (intentional or not)?  The "left wing" or the 
"right"?

It is stated by some PC members that we are united  against the 
position "improve, don't break, imperialist political organization, 
&tc."  They state we are not united over whether this statement was an 
"out-of-context, unfortunate, nave, contrary-to-years-of-practice, 
mis-statement" to be nurturingly criticized (which, by the way, has 
never been done in any open way by those who claim to fault our 
"method"), or whether it was an intentional gesture, a sell-out, 
reflected by other statements and actions, to be exposed and attacked. 
 This is open to debate.  What is not open to debate is the fact that 
the position stands, it has not been withdrawn. While we can argue 
intentions, ultimately we must organize around positions.

How can the anti-imperialists rectify our division?  We propose first, 
that the united front formation must organize around stated 
principles.  Not petty-bourgeois "anti-Democrat" confusion, but 
working-class "anti-Imperialism" clarity.  Second, that we must also 
put forward our direction for the united front and campaigns.  That 
the objective is not, primarily, office$ and officer$, but the 
development of a national Peoples' Democratic Workers' Party, to, yes, 
break, not improve,  both imperialist political parties.  Finally, for 
anyone who genuinely faults our method against objectively imperialist 
positions, they can make no criticism of our approach until they also, 
genuinely bring forward and apply their "better", more "principled" 
method.

The people vs. imperialism
Unite, don't split.
Peoples' war on the right.
Build the Peoples' Democratic Workers' Party.

Cliff Smith
Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
30 March, 2001








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1266
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-30 19:35:34
Subject:verniero must go sez black/latino caucus.
Message:







                Lawmakers say Verniero
                should resign 

                By JOHN P. McALPIN
                The Associated Press
                3/30/01 6:46 PM

                TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- Saying his 13 hours of testimony
                this week did nothing to help end racial profiling or 
repair
                the state's "tarnished" reputation, a group of 
minority
                legislators asked Supreme Court Justice Peter G. 
Verniero
                to resign. 

                In a letter sent Friday, the Black and Latino Caucus 
called
                Verniero's responses to hundreds of questions "equally
                troubling" because he could not remember key details. 

                Verniero also should resign because he refused to 
provide
                documents two years ago and told lawmakers they were
                unavailable, the letter reads. Many of those records 
were
                released in November and are central to issues in the
                Senate Judiciary Committee's racial profiling 
hearings. 

                "Your testimony on Wednesday failed to bring a close 
to
                this ordeal. If anything, your evasive answers 
threaten to
                prolong the state's agony over racial profiling,"
                Assemblyman Joseph Charles, D-Hudson, wrote. 

                Verniero's lawyer, Robert Mintz, declined to comment 
on
                the request. 

                On Wednesday, committee members accused Verniero of
                "misleading" them two years ago during his Supreme 
Court
                confirmation hearings. 

                In May 1999, Verniero, then the attorney general, said 
his
                deputies and state police officials began collecting 
data on
                possible racial profiling a year before. 

                Committee chairman Sen. William L. Gormley, 
R-Atlantic,
                confronted Verniero at the end of Wednesday's marathon
                hearing and said he should return to explain himself 
at
                another session. 

                As of Friday, Verniero had not yet decided if he will 
appear
                again before the committee, Mintz said. 

                Throughout the hearing, Verniero repeatedly said he 
could
                not recall details about key meetings, memos or
                documents dealing with racial profiling. 

                Verniero defended his department's response to racial
                profiling, but admitted he should have asked the state
                police harder questions sooner. 

                In April 1999, Verniero admitted state troopers were
                engaging in racial profiling in a report issued one 
year after
                two white troopers fired 11 shots at four unarmed 
minority
                men during a traffic stop on the New Jersey Turnpike. 

                Verniero's report and indictments against those two
                troopers for falsifying records were released just 
after he
                was nominated to the state Supreme Court by former 
Gov.
                Christie Whitman. 

                The Black and Latino Caucus has 22 members. All but 
one
                are in the Assembly. 

                Caucus member Assemblyman William Payne, D-Essex,
                has said he plans to introduce a bill to impeach 
Verniero.
                On Thursday, Payne said he would wait for word from
                senators, especially those on the Judiciary committee,
                before proceeding to push his bill and recruit 
co-sponsors
                from both sides of the aisle. 

                Impeachment actions must begin in the Assembly







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1267
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-03-31 17:24:58
Subject:soaries defends verniero from black/latino caucus
Message:

Yesterday, the 20-member Legislative Black and Latino Caucus called for
                     Verniero to resign, citing his "evasive answers" 
during Wednesday's
                     hearing and "inaction" on racial profiling. 

                     But Secretary of State DeForest "Buster" Soaries 
said while Verniero may
                     have been slow to address the problem, so was the 
rest of state
                     government in the wake of the 1996 decision in the 
"State vs. Soto" court
                     case, in which a judge found that troopers 
patrolling the Turnpike illegally
                     stopped motorists because of their race. 

                     "Name me another white politician in New Jersey 
for whom Soto was a
                     great wake-up call," said Soaries, who is black. 
"If Peter Verniero should
                     have known enough after Soto, why didn't the 
Legislature have hearings
                     after Soto?" 

                     Staff writer Brian Donohue contributed to this 
report. 

                          Subscriptions & Contacts | Archives | 
Personals | Obituaries 

                            2001 The Star-Ledger. Used by NJ.com with 
permission.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1268
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-01 00:22:48
Subject:Re: [nbpc] soaries defends verniero from black/latino caucus
Message:

YOU SUPPORT JIMMY MCGREEVEY FOR GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY.
1.] DO YOU BELIEVE HOMOSEXUALITY IS MORALLY WRONG ?
2.] DO YOU EVER PERSONALLY LOOK AT PORNOGRAPHY?
3.] IS RELIGION VERY IMPORTANT IN YOUR LIFE?
4.] WOULD YOU LOOK DOWN ON SOMEONE WHO HAD AN AFFAIR WHILE THEY WERE
MARRIED ?
5.] DO YOU BELIEVE SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE  IS MORALLY WRONG ?
THEN WHO ARE YOU GOING TO VOTE FOR ???







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1269
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-01 01:10:14
Subject:Re: [nbpc] soaries defends verniero from black/latino caucus
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., TRACYFORD1420@W... wrote:
> YOU SUPPORT JIMMY MCGREEVEY FOR GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY.
> 1.] DO YOU BELIEVE HOMOSEXUALITY IS MORALLY WRONG ?
> 2.] DO YOU EVER PERSONALLY LOOK AT PORNOGRAPHY?
> 3.] IS RELIGION VERY IMPORTANT IN YOUR LIFE?
> 4.] WOULD YOU LOOK DOWN ON SOMEONE WHO HAD AN AFFAIR WHILE THEY WERE
> MARRIED ?
> 5.] DO YOU BELIEVE SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE  IS MORALLY WRONG ?
> THEN WHO ARE YOU GOING TO VOTE FOR ???








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1270
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-01 01:12:44
Subject:Re: [nbpc] soaries defends verniero from black/latino caucus
Message:

DINGBAT!

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., TRACYFORD1420@W... wrote:
> YOU SUPPORT JIMMY MCGREEVEY FOR GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY.
> 1.] DO YOU BELIEVE HOMOSEXUALITY IS MORALLY WRONG ?
> 2.] DO YOU EVER PERSONALLY LOOK AT PORNOGRAPHY?
> 3.] IS RELIGION VERY IMPORTANT IN YOUR LIFE?
> 4.] WOULD YOU LOOK DOWN ON SOMEONE WHO HAD AN AFFAIR WHILE THEY WERE
> MARRIED ?
> 5.] DO YOU BELIEVE SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE  IS MORALLY WRONG ?
> THEN WHO ARE YOU GOING TO VOTE FOR ???








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1271
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-01 03:41:00
Subject:Re: [nbpc] soaries defends verniero from black/latino caucus
Message:

SOME OF YOU WANT ME DEFEND MY POSITION ON JIMMY MC GREEVEY.
MY THREE MAIN POINTS ARE THE FOLLOWINGS:
1.]MCGREEVEY'S TENURE AS MAYOR OF WOODBRIDGE IS MOST REMARKABLE FOR HIS
SKYROCKETING PROPERTY TAXES- DESPITE RECEIVING AN ADDITIONAL 40% IN
STATE AID, HE RAISED WOODBRIDGE PROPERTY BY 71%. WHEN MCGREEVEY TOOK
OFFICE AS MAYOR, THE MUNICIPALITY SHARE OF THE LOCAL PROPERTY  TAX RATE
WAS 62 CENTS PER $100 VALUATION OF PROPERTY. THE RATE TODAY IS $1.06.
2.]MCGREEVEY INCREASED WOODBRIDGE TOWNSHIP' DEBT BY $105 MILLION SINCE
1992- AN INCREASE OF 172%.
3.] AS A LEGISLATOR , JIMMY MCGREEVEYY CAST THE DECIDING VOTE ON JIMMY
FLORIO'S INCOME AND SALE TAX INCREASES. IN FACT MCGREEVEY SUPPORTED
EVERY ONE OF FLORIO'S $2.8 BILLION IN TAX INCREASES, INCLUDING AN
INCREASE IN THE GASOLINE TAX AS WELL AS CREATING NEW TAXES ON THINGS
LIKE TOILET PAPER AND SOAP.
ALL SERIOUS DEBATE ARE WELCOME. 
TRACY



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1272
Sender:"Mathew Levi" <ml@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-01 04:49:46
Subject:Re: [nbpc] soaries defends verniero from black/latino caucus
Message:


> YOU SUPPORT JIMMY MCGREEVEY FOR GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY.
> 1.] DO YOU BELIEVE HOMOSEXUALITY IS MORALLY WRONG ?
> 2.] DO YOU EVER PERSONALLY LOOK AT PORNOGRAPHY?
> 3.] IS RELIGION VERY IMPORTANT IN YOUR LIFE?
> 4.] WOULD YOU LOOK DOWN ON SOMEONE WHO HAD AN AFFAIR WHILE THEY WERE
> MARRIED ?
> 5.] DO YOU BELIEVE SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE  IS MORALLY WRONG ?
> THEN WHO ARE YOU GOING TO VOTE FOR ???���
>

Yes, No, Yes, Yes, and a triple YES!

You make a convincing argument, and it's hard for me to really add to it.
Let me just say that it's about time we bring morality back to America.
Nowadays people have no respect for the law, their country, or for God, and
it is certainly the job of legislators to instill these very American things
back into society.  Just yesterday I saw someone walking down the street,
and she had green hair and a piece of metal coming out of her nose!  She
probably hasn't been to a Church since she was a child (if at all).

Out of those five points you listed, I think that the most important one is
number 5.  I think in order to curb this 'sex before marriage' business,
which is responsible for AIDS and ultimately leads to hellfire, we should
consider enacting several measures.  One is to expand the "Moral
Delinquency"  unit of police departments in New Jersey:  equip them with
rattan sticks and have them patrol by foot twenty-four seven, questioning
men and women walking together (who aren't related) and especially women who
walk alone.  We could call them "Guardians."

Just a suggestion to think about, tell me if it is too extreme.  Anyway,
keep up the good work!

In God,

Matt








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1273
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-02 02:28:52
Subject:Re: [nbpc] soaries defends verniero from black/latino caucus
Message:

WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGE TO SUPPORT JIMMY MCGREEVEY FOR GOVERNOR OF NEW
JERSEY?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1274
Sender:"Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-02 08:07:42
Subject:RE: [nbpc] soaries defends verniero from black/latino caucus
Message:

He's not a republican is one.  ;)  (Sorry, Frank, I just couldn't help
myself.)  *grin*

Erric Z.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: TRACYFORD1420@... [mailto:TRACYFORD1420@...]
  Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 2:29 AM
  To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  Cc: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [nbpc] soaries defends verniero from black/latino caucus


  WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGE TO SUPPORT JIMMY MCGREEVEY FOR GOVERNOR OF NEW
  JERSEY?



  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1275
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-02 11:01:44
Subject:RE: [nbpc] soaries defends verniero from black/latino caucus
Message:

THIS IS FOR ERRIC L. ZDZCHOWSKI  
1.]WHO, I WONDER,WILL SET THE ADMISSION STANDARD?
2.]HOW WILL THE INTERNET ZONING CODE BE ENFORCED?
3.]WHAT QUALIFIES AS .XXX?
4.]DE SADE?
5.]PENETRATION?
6.]BIRTH CONTROL INFORMATION?
7.]GUIDES TO SAFE SEX?
8.]WHO DECIDES?
9.] THE PLANNED PARENTHOOD ?
10.]THE SAME PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE IS MORALLY WRONG?
11.]A 40 YEAR-OLD VIRGIN?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1276
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-02 13:32:38
Subject:Re: [nbpc] soaries defends verniero from black/latino caucus
Message:


WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGE TO SUPPORT JIMMY MCGREEVEY FOR GOVERNOR OF NEW
JERSEY?


to defeat republicans! to puncuate bush's illigitimacy nationally! to 
organize revolutionary positions in electoral campaigns! &tc...

joe
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1277
Sender:"Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-02 19:38:04
Subject:RE: [nbpc] soaries defends verniero from black/latino caucus
Message:

The "Internet Zoning Code" will probably be just about as good as any
current net filter on the market...which can all be labelled one thing:
crap.

Erric

  -----Original Message-----
  From: TRACYFORD1420@... [mailto:TRACYFORD1420@...]
  Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 11:02 AM
  To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  Cc: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [nbpc] soaries defends verniero from black/latino caucus


  THIS IS FOR ERRIC L. ZDZCHOWSKI
  1.]WHO, I WONDER,WILL SET THE ADMISSION STANDARD?
  2.]HOW WILL THE INTERNET ZONING CODE BE ENFORCED?
  3.]WHAT QUALIFIES AS .XXX?
  4.]DE SADE?
  5.]PENETRATION?
  6.]BIRTH CONTROL INFORMATION?
  7.]GUIDES TO SAFE SEX?
  8.]WHO DECIDES?
  9.] THE PLANNED PARENTHOOD ?
  10.]THE SAME PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE IS MORALLY WRONG?
  11.]A 40 YEAR-OLD VIRGIN?



  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

        Click for Details


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nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1278
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-02 21:41:42
Subject:sec. of state soaries knocks profiling hearings...
Message:

"I just don't think it is accurate to describe these hearings as 
hearings on racial profiling. I view them as hearings on whether or 
not Peter Verniero lied," Soaries said.

star ledger
4/2/







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1279
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-02 21:56:19
Subject:soaries joins j&j's "new revitalization team"...
Message:

home news tribune, sunday, 4/1

With its expanded partnership and broader base of support, Devco has 
become the visionary to ensure development occurs, said Robert F. 
Gamgort, J&J's vice president of corporate real estate and the vice 
chairman of Devco's board.
"(Devco's) role has changed somewhat, as I see it," said Gamgort. 
"Initially, Devco had to be the active developer. (Now) Devco has 
grown into more of a catalyst. By being that catalyst, they continue 
to stir the activity to make things happen for positive change."
By planting the seed, Devco can get a lot more accomplished than if
it did the development work itself, he said.
J&J executives, most notably John J. Heldrich, originally were the
key players of a small partnership to form Devco and New Brunswick 
Tomorrow in the mid-70's.
After a quarter century, the original revitalization leaders -- 
Heldrich, state Senator and former Mayor John A. Lynch, Civic League 
of Greater New Brunswick President C. Roy Epps, former J&J board 
Chairman Richard B. Sellars and the late Rutgers University President 
Edward J. Bloustein -- have passed the role onto a next generation of 
"new revitalizationists," Heldrich said last week.
Heldrich, who described himself as a coach available to offer advice, 
listed the new team as Paladino, Zoffinger, Cahill, the Cultural 
Center, a few J&J executives, Secretary of State DeForest B. "Buster" 
Soaries, Jr. and the Puerto Rican Action Board.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1280
Sender:Dwayne Middleton <nia7@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-03 02:32:24
Subject:[Fwd: Breakfast and Chat with RAS BARAKA]
Message:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1281
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-03 02:34:53
Subject:Re: [nbpc] [Fwd: Breakfast and Chat with RAS BARAKA]
Message:

Forum to Defeat Racist Profiling

Paul Robeson Cultural Center Wednesday April 4 6:30pm

speakers include:

Larry Hamm - Peoples' Organization for Progress, Newark

Linnie Mohammad - Minister Nation of Islam, Trenton

Jerusalam - local resident activist

Tom Degloma - New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign

Commemorate the anniversary of the assasignation of MLK Jr. at the
hands of U.S. white supremacist imperialist agents. Forum is to
raise consciousness of students and organizers in order to unite the
peoples' forces for the May 16 March on Trnton State House. Student
organizations must play a crucial role for this March to Defeat
Racist Profiling, Join the growing� statewide Coalition For Justice
and organize to defeat racist profiling.

newly established coalitionforjustice@egroups.com join up and encourage 
others as well to help the flow of networking and info sharing concerning 
May 16 march and for the future of CFJ, as we are committed to not just 
march but to Defeat Racist Profiling.

For more information or to get on board contact Joe Smith
can_bush@... 732.586.5535

PEOPLE'S ORGANIZATION FOR PROGRESS, NEW JERSEY STATE CONFERENCE OF
NAACP BRANCHES, BLACK MINISTERS' COUNCIL OF NJ, TRENTON BRANCH
NAACP, NJ BLACK ISSUES CONVENTION, NJ MILLION FAMILY MARCH
COALITION, BLACK COPS AGAINST POLICE BRUTALITY, CWA LOCAL 1033,
MUHAMMAD'S MOSQUE NO. 44, TRENTON MILLION MAN MARCH COALITION,
MUHAMMAD'S MOSQUE NO. 25, SAVE OUR CHILDREN, IMANI CHURCH, HOPEWELL
ANTI-RACIST, CAMDEN LOGISTICAL ORGANIZATION COMMITTEE, TRENTON
VICTORY ANGLES, STUDENT/WORKER ORGANIZATION FOR REVOLUTIONARY
DEMOCRACY, COMMITTEE TO DEFEAT RACIST PROFILING & POLICE BRUTALITY,
SISTERHOOD & STRUGGLE, AND CHAIN BREAKERS
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1282
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-03 14:47:05
Subject:Re: [nbpc] soaries joins j&j's "new revitalization team"...
Message:

...& "a few J&J executives..."  heh, wink, nudge...


----Original Message Follows----
From: cliffsmith69@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] soaries joins j&j's "new revitalization team"...
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 01:56:19 -0000

home news tribune, sunday, 4/1

With its expanded partnership and broader base of support, Devco has
become the visionary to ensure development occurs, said Robert F.
Gamgort, J&J's vice president of corporate real estate and the vice
chairman of Devco's board.
"(Devco's) role has changed somewhat, as I see it," said Gamgort.
"Initially, Devco had to be the active developer. (Now) Devco has
grown into more of a catalyst. By being that catalyst, they continue
to stir the activity to make things happen for positive change."
By planting the seed, Devco can get a lot more accomplished than if
it did the development work itself, he said.
J&J executives, most notably John J. Heldrich, originally were the
key players of a small partnership to form Devco and New Brunswick
Tomorrow in the mid-70's.
After a quarter century, the original revitalization leaders --
Heldrich, state Senator and former Mayor John A. Lynch, Civic League
of Greater New Brunswick President C. Roy Epps, former J&J board
Chairman Richard B. Sellars and the late Rutgers University President
Edward J. Bloustein -- have passed the role onto a next generation of
"new revitalizationists," Heldrich said last week.
Heldrich, who described himself as a coach available to offer advice,
listed the new team as Paladino, Zoffinger, Cahill, the Cultural
Center, a few J&J executives, Secretary of State DeForest B. "Buster"
Soaries, Jr. and the Puerto Rican Action Board.



To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1283
Sender:"Audrey Allred" <audreya99@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-03 16:45:56
Subject:Slam Poet Alix Olsen performing at Douglass College
Message:

Join the Women's Defense Coalition for an evening of politically exquisite 
poetry and music featuring slam poet extraordinaire Alix Olsen and special 
guests Sarah Bishop and Ellis Bergeron.

Benefit for the Rutgers University Women's Center.

April 9, 7pm-9pm Trayes Hall B, Douglass College Center
$5 admission, one guest per RU student ID
ALL attendees must have ID on them


Alix Olson:
Alix Olson has been featured in ms. and won the 1999 outright national
poetry slam championship, in addition to numerous other awards and prizes.  
Her poetry is pro-feminist, pro-activist, and political. She is currently 
working with the nuyorican poets on volumes of poetry.  Her indomitable 
spirit is evident in her poetry and lyrical voice.

Sarah Bishop:
Sarah has toured various venues on the east and West Coast and describes her 
music as "acoustic folk punk."  Her vocals are unforgettably melodious and 
soulful.

Ellis Bergeron:
Ellis is a singer and songwriter who has been performing for nine years.  
She is infamous for her "pure songs with wry lyrics," an is
renowned for her deep, penetrating voice and lyrics.

For more info email audreya99@...

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1284
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-03 20:59:55
Subject:state senate judiciary committee demands verniero's ouster
Message:







                     Senators end six days of testimony on
                     racial profiling 

                     By JOHN P. McALPIN
                     The Associated Press
                     4/3/01 7:31 PM

                     TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- Acting Gov. Donald T. 
DiFrancesco said he will
                     review a request by senators that he pressure 
state Supreme Court
                     Justice Peter G. Verniero to resign. 

                     Members of the state Senate Judiciary Committee 
presented DiFrancesco
                     with a letter Tuesday asking the acting governor 
to seek Verniero's
                     resignation. 

                     "You'll know in a day or two what my answer is," 
DiFrancesco said in an
                     interview on New Jersey 101.5 radio Tuesday night. 

                     DiFrancesco said he is reviewing materials given 
to him by committee
                     members and his staff is reviewing options. 

                     "Obviously, I am greatly concerned by much of what 
was characterized as
                     difficult testimony," DiFrancesco said. 

                     The acting governor met with senators for more 
than an hour following
                     the Senate Judiciary Committee's hearings on 
racial profiling Tuesday. 

                     "I need to dwell on it. I need to review it with 
my lawyer, the attorney
                     general perhaps," DiFrancesco said, "and then 
reach my own
                     conclusions." 

                     The acting governor "listened" to a summary of 
testimony as well as the
                     "feelings" senators had after listening to key 
witnesses, state Sen. William
                     L. Gormley, R-Atlantic, said Tuesday. 

                     After the meeting, DiFrancesco refused to meet 
with reporters who
                     camped in his outer office for nearly two hours. 

                     The Senate Judiciary Committee ended its sixth day 
of hearings shortly
                     after 4 p.m. Committee members and aides then met 
privately before
                     walking over to DiFrancesco's office. 

                     Gormley, the committee chairman, was the only 
legislator to speak
                     publicly immediately after the hour-long meeting 
with the governor. 

                     "He listened," Gormley said. "He wants to make 
sure that we all work
                     together, Republicans and Democrats alike, to make 
sure New Jersey is a
                     state that becomes known for ending racial 
profiling." 

                     Tuesday's hearings ended after testimony by state 
police Superintendent
                     Carson Dunbar and Attorney General John J. Farmer 
Jr., who said racial
                     profiling still exists in New Jersey. 

                     Last week Verniero testified for nearly 13 hours 
and defended his actions
                     while he was attorney general. Gormley accused the 
former attorney
                     general of giving "misleading" answers to 
questions about profiling during
                     his confirmation hearings two years ago. 

                     Verniero said Monday he would not return to 
testify. 

                     Gormley repeatedly declined to discuss any request 
made by senators
                     that DiFrancesco ask Verniero to resign. 

                     "We discussed all aspects of the hearing. All 
aspects," Gormley said. 

                     In April 1999, Verniero became the first attorney 
general to admit publicly
                     that state troopers were engaging in racial 
profiling. Verniero's admission
                     came one year after two white troopers fired 11 
shots at four unarmed
                     minority men -- wounding three -- during a traffic 
stop near Trenton on the
                     New Jersey Turnpike. 








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1285
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-03 21:05:14
Subject:soaries/republicans squash state arts funding
Message:









                    Time is money for arts trust 

                    04/03/01

                    BY PEGGY McGLONE
                    STAR-LEDGER STAFF

                    For a year, New Jersey's perennially under-
capitalized arts organizations
                    have been busily raising more than $15 million on 
the promise of state
                    matching funds. There's just one problem. 

                    The state hasn't matched any of it. 

                    Eight months after the much heralded New Jersey 
Cultural Trust was
                    created, the board of directors that will oversee 
the matching funding has
                    never met, and doesn't even have all its members 
yet. 

                    Last week, acting Gov. Donald DiFrancesco named 
Judith Dawkins of
                    Rumson to the 15-member board, leaving two 
positions still open. The
                    remaining members -- including five representatives 
from state government
                    and seven private citizens -- can convene before 
the rest of the positions
                    are filled in order to adopt guidelines to make the 
trust functional. But no
                    meeting has been scheduled. 

                    The delay is causing anxiety among cultural 
leaders, who are watching the
                    months pass without action. It's costing them 
money, too, since the
                    matching funds could be earning interest totaling 
tens of thousands of
                    dollars. 

                    "The cultural trust is a gem of an idea," said 
Lawrence P. Goldman,
                    president and CEO of the New Jersey Performing Arts 
Center in Newark.
                    "Everyone is in favor of it. The governor when he 
was Senate president
                    was in favor of it, the Department of State, the 
arts council, certainly the
                    arts organizations are in favor of it. Let's get it 
moving." 

                    However, nobody in the Department of Cultural 
Affairs would discuss the
                    delay. Secretary of State DeForest (Buster) Soaries 
refused to be
                    interviewed, saying only in a statement that his 
office is "working to fulfill
                    the legislative requirements" of the trust. And 
leaders in the arts
                    community who met with state officials months ago 
have heard nothing of
                    late. 

                    Signed into law July 25, the New Jersey Cultural 
Trust is a public-private
                    partnership established to provide capital and 
endowment funds for the
                    state's arts, history and humanities organizations. 
Once the fund reaches
                    $20 million, the interest it generates will be 
distributed in annual grants to
                    help with construction, repairs and rainy-day 
funds. 

                    Anticipated to grow to $200 million by 2010, the 
trust calls for the state to
                    match two kinds of private donations: money given 
directly to the trust and
                    gifts made to individual organizations' endowment 
funds. 

                    Processing the first type, such as the $1 million 
gift made by the Geraldine
                    R. Dodge Foundation last July minutes after then-
Gov. Christie Whitman
                    signed the bill into law, is straightforward. After 
the private donation is
                    deposited in the trust fund, the state merely 
matches it dollar-for-dollar. 

                    The trust's current balance -- from the Dodge 
grant, the state's match and
                    interest earned since July -- is $2,067,212. 

                    Private donations to individual organizations -- 
the bulk of the donations,
                    to date -- are a little trickier. Upon verifying 
that a gift has been made, the
                    state is supposed to deposit an equal amount into 
the trust. Questions
                    about how the trust will handle multi-year gifts -- 
which accounting rules
                    mandate must be recorded in full the first year -- 
pledges, and planned
                    giving donations have yet to be resolved. 

                    Also, to encourage individual organizations to 
boost their own funds, the
                    law calls for the state to give the individual 
institutions 20 percent of the
                    match for gifts of $100,000 or more.

                    Details about these two-part matches have not been 
worked out, either.
                    For example, organizations do not know whether a 
$100,000 donation
                    paid over three years will count as a major gift, 
and thus be eligible for the
                    20 percent clause, or if it will be considered as 
three grants worth $33,000.
                    If the latter, the entire match will be deposited 
in the main fund. 

                    While progress in Trenton is stalled, cultural 
leaders are busy using the
                    trust to leverage private donations. 

                    Donald Edwards, vice president for institutional 
advancement for American
                    Boychoir in Princeton, said the trust has helped 
the school's $10 million
                    endowment campaign. He cited a recent $600,000 
grant as an example. 

                    "With that gift, which was to endow benefits for 
faculty and staff ... we
                    were able to tell donor that it would generate 
$120,000 of state money to
                    our endowment and that we would use it for the same 
purpose," said
                    Edwards. "There's no question that it motivated the 
donor." 

                    The Prudential Foundation in Newark was influenced 
by the new law when
                    it decided to grant $6.6 million for endowments to 
six Newark arts
                    organizations as part of its $20 million 125th 
anniversary fund. The grants
                    -- awarded and paid out last fall -- should 
generate an equal amount of
                    state funds from the Cultural Trust. Almost $5.3 
million would go into the
                    main fund, and the balance of $1.3 million would be 
shared by NJPAC,
                    the New Jersey Symphony Orchestra, the Newark 
Museum, the Newark
                    Community School of the Arts, WBGO and Aljira. 

                    If the matching funds on the Prudential gifts had 
been released in October
                    and invested with a 5 percent return, both the 
trust fund and individual
                    organizations would be $137,500 richer today. 

                    Arts officials admit they'd like the money in their 
accounts, but they say
                    they also need action in Trenton to show funders 
that the program will
                    work. 

                    "It's enormously helpful to be able to say to a 
potential donor 'Your gift will
                    be matched 20 cents on the dollar by the state 
cultural trust'," said
                    Goldman. "It's important that we be able to show 
donors this has actually
                    happened." 

                    Assemblyman Leonard Lance (R-Hunterdon), one of the 
sponsors of the
                    bill creating the Cultural Trust, said the lack of 
progress will be on his
                    agenda when the when the Secretary of State appears 
before him at
                    budget hearings next month to ask for the second 
$10 million installment
                    on the 10-year program. 

                    "Certainly I shall be asking questions," said 
Lance, who is vice chairman of
                    the appropriations committee. "It is imperative, in 
my judgment, to have the
                    trust constituted as soon as possible so private 
donors feel the state is
                    living up to its part of the bargain." 








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1286
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 00:17:25
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Slam Poet Alix Olsen performing at Douglass College
Message:

THANK YOU



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1287
Sender:Alyssa Coiley <ajoy110@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 10:39:24
Subject:City Council Meeting Tonite
Message:

The Home News reported this morning that the court
tavern fears that it will have to close its doors to
city redevelopers who want to build an office on the
corner of Church and Spring Streets.  

We are looking for a volunteer to attend the city
council meeting tonight where there will be a vote on
this issue. Possibly there will be a chance to talk
about the Peoples Campaign feelings about city
redevelopment.

the meeting is tonight at 7pm at City Hall on Bayard
St.

Please let us know if you can attend by an email on
the egroups.

thanks
alyssa joy
steering commitee rep for the women's caucus  

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1288
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 10:53:35
Subject:Re: [nbpc] City Council Meeting Tonite
Message:

good work alyssa, there will definitely be a chance for the public to speak, 
plus bobby alverez, owner of tavern, will be there to question city's 
motives. it should be tied to the overall attack on arts and culture that is 
taking place in New Brunswick in order to gain support base for arguement.

joe


>From: Alyssa Coiley <ajoy110@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] City Council Meeting Tonite
>Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:39:24 -0700 (PDT)
>
>The Home News reported this morning that the court
>tavern fears that it will have to close its doors to
>city redevelopers who want to build an office on the
>corner of Church and Spring Streets.
>
>We are looking for a volunteer to attend the city
>council meeting tonight where there will be a vote on
>this issue. Possibly there will be a chance to talk
>about the Peoples Campaign feelings about city
>redevelopment.
>
>the meeting is tonight at 7pm at City Hall on Bayard
>St.
>
>Please let us know if you can attend by an email on
>the egroups.
>
>thanks
>alyssa joy
>steering commitee rep for the women's caucus
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1289
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 13:29:19
Subject:Press release - public access cable
Message:

NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
Press Secretary
P.O. Box 131♦ New Brunswick, NJ 08903 ♦ 732/735-1342

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 4, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's Campaign, 
a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and their 
supporters, which includes local residents from all nationalities and 
socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:

	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) wholeheartedly 
supports the plan to bring a public-access cable to channel to New 
Brunswick residents after years of regrettable delay. Cablevision and 
New Brunswick's city government should move forward at the greatest 
possible speed and provide public cable access to city residents as 
soon as possible.

	The NBPC further urges that the public access channel be 
governed by a board directly elected by residents.  Such a board will 
ensure that the public access channel remains a forum for a diverse 
array of cultural, educational, and governmental programs reflective 
of the diversity present in New Brunswick.

	As a supporter of open government, the People's Campaign also 
urges that this cable channel be used to broadcast meetings of the 
city council and other government agencies.  Such broadcasts have 
been highly successful in other communities and result in the very 
positive step of people taking a more direct role in governing 
themselves.  Such broadcasts should be implemented at once in New 
Brunswick to make City government more accessible to all New 
Brunswick residents. 

	For these reasons, we emphatically call on New Brunswick 
Mayor James Cahill and City Council president Robert Recine to 
express clear and unequivocal support for the broadcasting of such 
meetings.



	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 732/514-0610











-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1290
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 13:34:06
Subject:Meeting with Mosely
Message:

As I've just joined the Coalition for Justice egroup list, I am unclear as 
to why this exchange is taking place here as opposed to the NB Peoples' 
Campaign group list...nothing against airing out views widely, but it would 
seem that PC members would benefit from the dialogue, & that CFJ members are 
likely unaware of the particulars.

(Otherwise-- I think that it would be very benificial for this proposed 
meeting with Joe Mosely to take place...as much as I disagree with Joe & 
BOL/SWORD's portrayal of Curtis Warren as an right-wing, opportunistic, 
imperialist, infiltrator (sigh), my concerns about their expulsion have been 
shifted into alarm when I learned that there was a vote to remove them from 
the Peoples Campaign egroup list...among the reasons sited was that this 
domain is the "intellectual property" of the NBPC...if ever I've heard a 
violation of basic democratic principles (!) this purely individualistic & 
bourgeois concept is it.  Unfortunately, I was not at the meeting to voice 
my objections, but I feel it's a dangerous road to travel down when banning 
people becomes a substitute for struggling over the ideas in a coherent and 
scientific way...remember WBAI?!

In the Struggle for Unity--Matthew Smith


----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:30:39 -0400

name the time mosley. others should be made aware also, but the discussion
should stay focused on the expulsion of myself, cliff and others from the
nbpc which was/is lead by xavier. i will accept no rules that embrace the
peoples' enemies.

republicans in the garbage can!

joe


 >From: "Joseph Mosley" <joemosley1@...>
 >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
 >To: "Coalitionfor Justice" <coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com>,	"Tom
 >DeGloma" <tdegloma@...>,	<Xavier.hansen@...>
 >Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
 >Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:08:44 -0400
 >
 >I believe that you are on the right track Joe, but never forget that at
 >times we can be our own worst enemy. We may disagree on procedural matters
 >but our goals must be clearly defined and supported by all.
 >
 >At last week's meeting of the Peoples Campaign both Tom Degloma and Xavier
 >Hansen said that you and your brother are welcome to return if you agree 
to
 >abide by the rules. They say that you know what these rules are. I did not
 >ask because I did not want to hear their version, neither do I want to 
hear
 >your version. I want to be as neutral as possible. What I would like to
 >know is , are these rules acceptable to you and Cliff? If they are not,
 >could the five of us sit down somewhere and discuss the issue or issues?
 >
 >Feel free to call on me any time.
 >
 >Peace,
 >
 >JoeMosley
 >745-2602
 >
 >
 >
 >----- Original Message -----
 >From: can_bush@...
 >Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:39 PM
 >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
 >
 >
 >in the form of an advanced political/ideological position the CFJ must
 >advance on the present list of demands to call for reparations and
 >self-determination for the black nation. this struggle against racist
 >profiling will never put the CFJ on the offensive without these two
 >demands being main slogans and organizing tools. how many people are
 >going to march to reopen the investigation into Earl Faison's death?
 >not that it shouldn't be a demand, but the coalition must take the
 >particular to the general and then lead to other particulars in order
 >to be embraced by the majority of people.
 >
 >for example the state police shoot up van of black youth (particular -
 >so people march against racist profiling). state police shoot up black
 >youth because they are run by white supremacists, so is every
 >institution in the nation (general - so people march against every
 >white supremacist institution, as the CFJ can present it). rutgers
 >university is run by white supremacists, president francis lawrence
 >stated that "black people are genetically inferior to whites...".
 >(different particular - so now rutgers students can march against
 >racial profiling in a more general fashion, they can demand the
 >impeachment of university president facsist lawrence and the
 >conviction of troopers hogan and kenna. but only if the general is
 >properly understood, that white supremacy runs this nation will the
 >united front against racist profiling develop.
 >
 >the CFJ would be limiting itself if it just focused on the narrow
 >particulars, which it is presently doing.   therefor it must be
 >embraced by the list of demands, reparations and self-determination
 >for the black nation in order for us to build the broadest base of
 >support possible for this march and then back to the movement in
 >general. this is the way to transform the coalition to an offensive,
 >first in our attitudes/consciousness then in our plans.
 >
 >this transformation, although altering to the original conception of
 >the coalition must not be pushed in a manner of confrontation, though
 >it must be pushed. it is a suggestion in order strengthen the
 >coalition, therefor it must be presented as such. so if any person or
 >group is against the proposal, they are actually against the
 >strenthening of the coalition.
 >
 >although this is choppy, i had just wrote it as i understood w/no
 >preperation, it is an important arguement. criticism, suggestions,
 >comments are needed.
 >
 >Reparations and Self-Determination for the Black Nation
 >
 >joe
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
 >
 >
 >
 >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download
 >of MSN Explorer at <a
 >href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1291
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 13:51:59
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

thank you



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1292
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 13:54:19
Subject:Bushwacked...& the vote tallies are coming...
Message:

                          (Where's that consumer advocate now?)
-------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Resisting President-Select Bush

                          Steve Cobble, www.AlterNet.com
                          April 3, 2001

                          Viewed on April 4, 2001

                          
-------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Steve Cobble is an expert on a wide range of 
election and government issues and has served
                          as a campaign advisor to many candidates, 
including Jesse Jackson and Ralph Nader. He is
                          currently a consultant on democracy issues with 
the Institute for Policy Studies.

                          Sometime very soon, it is extremely likely that 
the major media are finally going to demonstrate what
                          most of us have known all along -- that the 
Florida vote count was a fraud; that President-Select
                          Bush really lost both that state and the nation; 
that the voice of the people was gagged.

                          The question is -- how shall we respond? How will 
we collectively
                          speak truth to power about "His Illegitimacy?"

                          Though the exact time is still undisclosed, in the 
coming days eight
                          news organizations will complete their exhaustive 
review of the
                          180,000 Florida "undervotes" and "overvotes." 
These news
                          organizations -- the New York Times, Associated 
Press, Wall
                          Street Journal, Washington Post, Palm Beach Post, 
St. Petersburg
                          Times, the Tribune Co. (which owns the Los Angeles 
Times), and
                          CNN -- are expected to release their results and 
initial analyses on
                          the same date.

                          We should note that this is not the partial and 
biased count recently
                          released by Judicial Watch, in an obvious attempt 
to undercut the
                          media analyses. Nor is this the Miami Herald/USA 
Today report,
                          whose release is imminent, which only deals with 
the "undervotes,"
                          though it may or may not lead to the same 
conclusion.

                          The media may well underplay the conclusion that 
Bush really lost,
                          since the current elite philosophy seems to be 
that it is important to
                          build up the sitting President's legitimacy. 
Nevertheless, many
                          expect that this major media review will 
demonstrate what all of us
                          already know in our hearts -- that the will of the 
people was
                          ignored, distorted, and subverted by the 
institutions that are
                          supposed to protect American democracy.

                          If so, it means that the man in the White House is 
not the people's
                          choice. It means that President-Select Bush really 
lost both the
                          popular vote and the electoral vote. It means that 
the most basic
                          right in a democracy -- the right to vote -- was 
corrupted by the
                          Scalia 5 on the Supreme Court, after a successful
                          disenfranchisement/disinformation/intimidation 
campaign carried
                          out by the Bush brothers and their allies in 
Florida.

                          It means, in a literal definition of the phrase, 
that the United States
                          of America has undergone a coup d'etat.

                          Compare the actual events of the Florida fiasco to 
this definition
                          from our 1976 American Heritage Dictionary: "coup 
d'etat -- a
                          sudden stroke of state policy involving deliberate 
violation of
                          constitutional forms by a group of persons in 
authority."

                          (No doubt future versions will include: "see also 
-- George W.
                          Bush, Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, Katherine 
Harris ... ")

                          Thus, a fundamental principle of the Declaration 
of Independence,
                          that governments derive "their just powers from 
the consent of the
                          governed," has been violated.

                          The people's consent has never been given. The 
current rulers did
                          not win a free and fair election, and so have no 
"just powers." They
                          received no mandate from the voters.

                          Not for tax cuts for the rich. Not for drilling on 
wildlife refuges.
                          Not for limiting freedom of choice. Not for 
infringing on workers'
                          health and safety. Not for right wing judges. Zip. 
Zilch. Nada.

                          This is not really about Al Gore, though he should 
have won. At the
                          core of this issue is an illegitimate re-ordering 
of America's national
                          priorities. President-Select Bush ducked away from 
much of the
                          platform he is currently attempting to impose on 
the American
                          people. (See, for example: CO2, arsenic, 
compassionate
                          conservative, bipartisanship, unifier not divider 
... ) In addition,
                          opinion polls make it clear that many of the 
policy positions which
                          Bush did campaign on were not supported by a 
majority of the
                          people. (See, for example, restricting freedom of 
choice, tax cuts
                          for the top 1 percent, big oil over baby caribou 
... )

                          Most importantly, Bush lost. He lost the national 
popular vote. And
                          we will soon have mainstream proof that he really 
lost Florida and
                          the electoral vote, too. This means he has no 
mandate.

                          Many of us, of course, believe that the inaccurate 
and sinister
                          purges of falsely-accused ex-felons by the 
Secretary of State's
                          office should be enough by itself to call the 
election's legitimacy
                          into question. Not to mention the roadblocks and 
intimidation aimed
                          at African American voters. Not to mention the 
"bourgeois riot,"
                          led by Congressional staff on the public payroll, 
that shut down the
                          vote count. Not to mention the unprecedented -- in 
every sense of
                          that word -- intervention of the Supreme Court. 
Not to mention the
                          failure by Scalia and Thomas to recuse themselves 
from the Court
                          deliberations, despite their obvious ethical 
conflicts-of-interest. Not
                          to mention that the butterfly ballot in Palm Beach 
clearly violated
                          the Florida statutes. Not to mention that most of 
the fancy
                          computer equipment went to Republican-leaning 
counties and
                          precincts. Not to mention that the original 
projection that Bush had
                          won was made by his cousin at FOX (slogan -- "FOX 
News:
                          We're just as fair as the Washington Times!"). Not 
to mention that
                          hand counts are not only the normal way to resolve 
election
                          disputes, they were the only way to count the 
votes for most of the
                          history of this nation (e.g., Washington, 
Jefferson, Lincoln,
                          Roosevelt, etc.)

                          Most significantly, since President-Select Bush 
holds office only because of a "deliberate violation of
                          constitutional forms by a group of persons in 
authority" (could there be a more precise description of
                          the Supreme Court's intervention in Bush v. 
Gore?), his mandate is missing.

                          Democracy requires the consent of the governed. 
That consent was never given. Our duty as
                          activists, as citizens, as voters -- as Americans 
-- is to oppose illegitimate rule, to speak truth to
                          power, to refuse to consent to public policy that 
has no mandate.
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1293
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 14:02:25
Subject:Re: Egroups
Message:

Matt:

I think you may have been misinformed about the vote regarding 
egroups taken on Saturday.  In order to safeguard the good name of 
the New Brunswick People's Campaign from dilution and/or tarnishing, 
in accordance with principles of intellectual property and trademark 
law, the membership, with two members dissenting, and one abstaining, 
decided that:

1. there shall be one moderated listserv/Yahoogroup, in which a 
moderator screens all messages.  That list will be used for official 
NBPC communications, e.g. meeting announcements, minutes, newsletters 
etc.  Any person can read that list but only messages approved by the 
moderator will be posted.

2. there shall be one members' listserv/Yahoogroup, unmoderated.  
Only NBPC members can post to that list but anyone can read the list.

3. there shall be one 'open' and unmoderated list/Yahoogroup in 
substantially the form as this group where any person can post or 
read the messages.  This list will not be 'sponsored' by NBPC in any 
way and presumably, it will contain a disclaimer so stating.  

The precise logistical details, including the name(s) of these lists 
and what will become of the present list, is still under 
consideration.  This is not at all like the WBAI situation.  Ample 
forums for debate and discussion will remain.  However, by parsing 
this group into different forums, NBPC members and interested parties 
who choose to communicate by email will be able to better manage what 
kind of information they want to receive.  Likewise, onlookers will 
be able to make a clear distinction between what is official, what is 
members' debate, and what is other discussion concerning NBPC.









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1294
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 14:48:06
Subject:Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
Message:

Flavio (& all)- With respect to the dedicated work that you and others are 
doing to advance the cause of the people's campaign and democracy, I 
maintain my vote of dissent on this issue.  Legalese aside, it all amounts 
to about the same thing...

To wit: It is safe to assume that every PC member will subscribe to lists 1 
& 2 (in order to get the "official communications" as well as to stay 
abreast of the current debates) & many will probably opt out of the third 
unofficial, non-sponsored, non-NBPC egroup list, which is a transparent 
token gesture seemingly to sooth certain yay-voters' consciences.  This 
model immediately shuts out the general public who are not 'official 
members' of NBPC, which is contrary to the type of organization that we must 
have--(I defer to Keith Joseph's stated defense of flexible organizational 
models rooted in existing community networks and institutions)

Furthermore, what do "intellectual property" & "trademark law" have to do 
with the struggle for peoples democracy & freedom? (...and for all you still 
willing to claim revolutionary democracy & socialism: letting "a hundred 
flowers blossom & a hundred schools of thought contend?")  This legal 
bourgeois jargon is intended to protect private property rights, not secure 
the democratic rights of the people! (ie: NAPSTER!) These concepts are 
diametrically opposed in principle and in substance.

I have stated repeatedly and forcefully my opposition to BOL/SWORD's 
dogmatic attacks on Curtis, but I will not accept this sort of reaction on 
the part of the NBPC.  Is this or is this not a united front?  & if so, 
should we not expect "aggravating" even infuriating and contrary positions 
of all sort to be aired?  Again I maintain that the way to deal with a bad 
argument is to put out a better one--clearly & scientifically...and if we do 
our job, that is, build a real base in the working class community along 
side the existing base in the university, then the people will decide for 
themselves what ideas work best for them.  But if we continue to set the 
precedent that dissenting voices will be silenced, then the PC will end up 
like the ass end of Kenny G's horn heard over the muted airwaves of WBAI 
Radio.


----Original Message Follows----
From: Groovemeister007@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Re: Egroups
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:02:25 -0000

Matt:

I think you may have been misinformed about the vote regarding
egroups taken on Saturday.  In order to safeguard the good name of
the New Brunswick People's Campaign from dilution and/or tarnishing,
in accordance with principles of intellectual property and trademark
law, the membership, with two members dissenting, and one abstaining,
decided that:

1. there shall be one moderated listserv/Yahoogroup, in which a
moderator screens all messages.  That list will be used for official
NBPC communications, e.g. meeting announcements, minutes, newsletters
etc.  Any person can read that list but only messages approved by the
moderator will be posted.

2. there shall be one members' listserv/Yahoogroup, unmoderated.
Only NBPC members can post to that list but anyone can read the list.

3. there shall be one 'open' and unmoderated list/Yahoogroup in
substantially the form as this group where any person can post or
read the messages.  This list will not be 'sponsored' by NBPC in any
way and presumably, it will contain a disclaimer so stating.

The precise logistical details, including the name(s) of these lists
and what will become of the present list, is still under
consideration.  This is not at all like the WBAI situation.  Ample
forums for debate and discussion will remain.  However, by parsing
this group into different forums, NBPC members and interested parties
who choose to communicate by email will be able to better manage what
kind of information they want to receive.  Likewise, onlookers will
be able to make a clear distinction between what is official, what is
members' debate, and what is other discussion concerning NBPC.





To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

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_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1295
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 14:51:16
Subject:Re: Meeting with Mosely
Message:

curtis aspires to be the next deforest soaries! when soaries came on 
the seen following the potts murder, he was quoting malcolm x and other 
black power activists, now he is covering for wHitman and Verneiro for 
racist profiling, while at the same time jacking funds for black 
cultural threatres as the Secratary of State.  where is the coalition 
for police brutality and curtis' "working class" analysis of any of 
this? he still hasn't even taken back his initial proposal to work with 
J&J to solve community problems. the problem with the community is J&
J!!!! and its backward ethnic cleansing termed "re-development". but 
no, curtis "wants to work with them to solve a drug crisis", what kind 
of "working class" analysis is that? what about a march for jobs and a 
living wage, the right to an education, and childcare fascilities? 
those are the working class issues, not jumping into the lap of J&J. 
curtis tries to get it off that skunk soaries is a "religous leader", 
what kind of statement is that? what a leader! what's next, hitler is 
my religous leader... bang your dead! 

the only reasons the nbpc would want myself off this list is because 
they canoot argue me. otherwise they would smartly use the opportunity 
to prove my mistakes and teach everyone else valuble leasons about 
"working with republicans is actually the right thing to do..." -x & 
too many others
the other reason might be because of the peoples' campaigns ineptitude 
in the local struggle. run a camaign, that embraced those that dissed 
its own platform, and then barely get involved, if at all, in any 
ongoing community struggles. "ok everyone let's retreat to the 
suburbs." - x,  campaign geru

actions speak louder than words. why be worried about what i have to 
say, you all got everything under control... right?

joe


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> As I've just joined the Coalition for Justice egroup list, I am unclear as 
> to why this exchange is taking place here as opposed to the NB Peoples' 
> Campaign group list...nothing against airing out views widely, but it would 
> seem that PC members would benefit from the dialogue, & that CFJ members are 
> likely unaware of the particulars.
> 
> (Otherwise-- I think that it would be very benificial for this proposed 
> meeting with Joe Mosely to take place...as much as I disagree with Joe & 
> BOL/SWORD's portrayal of Curtis Warren as an right-wing, opportunistic, 
> imperialist, infiltrator (sigh), my concerns about their expulsion have been 
> shifted into alarm when I learned that there was a vote to remove them from 
> the Peoples Campaign egroup list...among the reasons sited was that this 
> domain is the "intellectual property" of the NBPC...if ever I've heard a 
> violation of basic democratic principles (!) this purely individualistic & 
> bourgeois concept is it.  Unfortunately, I was not at the meeting to voice 
> my objections, but I feel it's a dangerous road to travel down when banning 
> people becomes a substitute for struggling over the ideas in a coherent and 
> scientific way...remember WBAI?!
> 
> In the Struggle for Unity--Matthew Smith
> 
> 
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@y...
> To: coalitionforjustice@y...
> Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:30:39 -0400
> 
> name the time mosley. others should be made aware also, but the discussion
> should stay focused on the expulsion of myself, cliff and others from the
> nbpc which was/is lead by xavier. i will accept no rules that embrace the
> peoples' enemies.
> 
> republicans in the garbage can!
> 
> joe
> 
> 
>  >From: "Joseph Mosley" <joemosley1@m...>
>  >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@y...
>  >To: "Coalitionfor Justice" <coalitionforjustice@y...>,	"Tom
>  >DeGloma" <tdegloma@h...>,	<Xavier.hansen@a...>
>  >Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
>  >Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:08:44 -0400
>  >
>  >I believe that you are on the right track Joe, but never forget that at
>  >times we can be our own worst enemy. We may disagree on procedural matters
>  >but our goals must be clearly defined and supported by all.
>  >
>  >At last week's meeting of the Peoples Campaign both Tom Degloma and Xavier
>  >Hansen said that you and your brother are welcome to return if you agree 
> to
>  >abide by the rules. They say that you know what these rules are. I did not
>  >ask because I did not want to hear their version, neither do I want to 
> hear
>  >your version. I want to be as neutral as possible. What I would like to
>  >know is , are these rules acceptable to you and Cliff? If they are not,
>  >could the five of us sit down somewhere and discuss the issue or issues?
>  >
>  >Feel free to call on me any time.
>  >
>  >Peace,
>  >
>  >JoeMosley
>  >745-2602
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >----- Original Message -----
>  >From: can_bush@h...
>  >Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:39 PM
>  >To: coalitionforjustice@y...
>  >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
>  >
>  >
>  >in the form of an advanced political/ideological position the CFJ must
>  >advance on the present list of demands to call for reparations and
>  >self-determination for the black nation. this struggle against racist
>  >profiling will never put the CFJ on the offensive without these two
>  >demands being main slogans and organizing tools. how many people are
>  >going to march to reopen the investigation into Earl Faison's death?
>  >not that it shouldn't be a demand, but the coalition must take the
>  >particular to the general and then lead to other particulars in order
>  >to be embraced by the majority of people.
>  >
>  >for example the state police shoot up van of black youth (particular -
>  >so people march against racist profiling). state police shoot up black
>  >youth because they are run by white supremacists, so is every
>  >institution in the nation (general - so people march against every
>  >white supremacist institution, as the CFJ can present it). rutgers
>  >university is run by white supremacists, president francis lawrence
>  >stated that "black people are genetically inferior to whites...".
>  >(different particular - so now rutgers students can march against
>  >racial profiling in a more general fashion, they can demand the
>  >impeachment of university president facsist lawrence and the
>  >conviction of troopers hogan and kenna. but only if the general is
>  >properly understood, that white supremacy runs this nation will the
>  >united front against racist profiling develop.
>  >
>  >the CFJ would be limiting itself if it just focused on the narrow
>  >particulars, which it is presently doing.   therefor it must be
>  >embraced by the list of demands, reparations and self-determination
>  >for the black nation in order for us to build the broadest base of
>  >support possible for this march and then back to the movement in
>  >general. this is the way to transform the coalition to an offensive,
>  >first in our attitudes/consciousness then in our plans.
>  >
>  >this transformation, although altering to the original conception of
>  >the coalition must not be pushed in a manner of confrontation, though
>  >it must be pushed. it is a suggestion in order strengthen the
>  >coalition, therefor it must be presented as such. so if any person or
>  >group is against the proposal, they are actually against the
>  >strenthening of the coalition.
>  >
>  >although this is choppy, i had just wrote it as i understood w/no
>  >preperation, it is an important arguement. criticism, suggestions,
>  >comments are needed.
>  >
>  >Reparations and Self-Determination for the Black Nation
>  >
>  >joe
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@y...
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download
>  >of MSN Explorer at <a
>  >href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@y...
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1296
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 15:25:46
Subject:Re: Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
Message:

a new topic to refresh our brains...

dump the revolutionaries and keep the republicans, let me guess... 
xavier thought it up. "i motion that cliff, joe, tami, nikki, jayson, 
jr., and all others associated with the working class community must 
move to highland park and register republican to prove their commitment 
to the nbpc." -x

 "but the republicans have money and money organizes people, i mean 
just look, they won the president election they must be terrific. i can 
even say it in spanish. i move that we drop the slogan of community 
control and embrace compassionate conservatism." - x

i'm with matt, i vote against the proposal. what say you now, mr. 
safeguarder flavio? wait, can you explain the advantages once more?

joe 


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> Flavio (& all)- With respect to the dedicated work that you and others are 
> doing to advance the cause of the people's campaign and democracy, I 
> maintain my vote of dissent on this issue.  Legalese aside, it all amounts 
> to about the same thing...
> 
> To wit: It is safe to assume that every PC member will subscribe to lists 1 
> & 2 (in order to get the "official communications" as well as to stay 
> abreast of the current debates) & many will probably opt out of the third 
> unofficial, non-sponsored, non-NBPC egroup list, which is a transparent 
> token gesture seemingly to sooth certain yay-voters' consciences.  This 
> model immediately shuts out the general public who are not 'official 
> members' of NBPC, which is contrary to the type of organization that we must 
> have--(I defer to Keith Joseph's stated defense of flexible organizational 
> models rooted in existing community networks and institutions)
> 
> Furthermore, what do "intellectual property" & "trademark law" have to do 
> with the struggle for peoples democracy & freedom? (...and for all you still 
> willing to claim revolutionary democracy & socialism: letting "a hundred 
> flowers blossom & a hundred schools of thought contend?")  This legal 
> bourgeois jargon is intended to protect private property rights, not secure 
> the democratic rights of the people! (ie: NAPSTER!) These concepts are 
> diametrically opposed in principle and in substance.
> 
> I have stated repeatedly and forcefully my opposition to BOL/SWORD's 
> dogmatic attacks on Curtis, but I will not accept this sort of reaction on 
> the part of the NBPC.  Is this or is this not a united front?  & if so, 
> should we not expect "aggravating" even infuriating and contrary positions 
> of all sort to be aired?  Again I maintain that the way to deal with a bad 
> argument is to put out a better one--clearly & scientifically...and if we do 
> our job, that is, build a real base in the working class community along 
> side the existing base in the university, then the people will decide for 
> themselves what ideas work best for them.  But if we continue to set the 
> precedent that dissenting voices will be silenced, then the PC will end up 
> like the ass end of Kenny G's horn heard over the muted airwaves of WBAI 
> Radio.
> 
> 
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Groovemeister007@y...
> Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> Subject: [nbpc] Re: Egroups
> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:02:25 -0000
> 
> Matt:
> 
> I think you may have been misinformed about the vote regarding
> egroups taken on Saturday.  In order to safeguard the good name of
> the New Brunswick People's Campaign from dilution and/or tarnishing,
> in accordance with principles of intellectual property and trademark
> law, the membership, with two members dissenting, and one abstaining,
> decided that:
> 
> 1. there shall be one moderated listserv/Yahoogroup, in which a
> moderator screens all messages.  That list will be used for official
> NBPC communications, e.g. meeting announcements, minutes, newsletters
> etc.  Any person can read that list but only messages approved by the
> moderator will be posted.
> 
> 2. there shall be one members' listserv/Yahoogroup, unmoderated.
> Only NBPC members can post to that list but anyone can read the list.
> 
> 3. there shall be one 'open' and unmoderated list/Yahoogroup in
> substantially the form as this group where any person can post or
> read the messages.  This list will not be 'sponsored' by NBPC in any
> way and presumably, it will contain a disclaimer so stating.
> 
> The precise logistical details, including the name(s) of these lists
> and what will become of the present list, is still under
> consideration.  This is not at all like the WBAI situation.  Ample
> forums for debate and discussion will remain.  However, by parsing
> this group into different forums, NBPC members and interested parties
> who choose to communicate by email will be able to better manage what
> kind of information they want to receive.  Likewise, onlookers will
> be able to make a clear distinction between what is official, what is
> members' debate, and what is other discussion concerning NBPC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> 
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
> nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1297
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 16:33:57
Subject:Re: Special NBH&RA Meeting
Message:

All,

It appears the special NBH&RA meeting will be Tuesday at 6:30 pm at the 
community room over at Schwartz/Robeson (37 Van Dyke Ave.) Official posting 
will be 48 hours in advance.

It is a special meeting to discuss the transfer of $4.1 million dollars of 
NBH&RA property to an LLC where we will hold a fraction of a percent of 
ownership. The numbers given at the last meeting was approximately .1%.

Clearly, the NBH&RA will lose much control over the land and in turn it will 
be controlled by a private entity. The ramifications to this decision are 
many and do not bode well for developing a "livable" city. 

So please come out to ask what is going on.

Frank Bright
249-7201






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1298
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 17:11:36
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

Matthew,

I respect the point you are trying to make with this post. However, I feel 
strongly that you can't make such sharp judgement on the decisions made at 
Campaign general meetings (in this case re: participation in the egroups) 
when you were entirely absent from the debate. I don't know who gave you a 
report of what went down, but I disagree with your characterization of what 
happened.

to clarify, the decision was to change the way that the egroup operates so 
that only members of the Campaign can make posts. as you know, the 
guidelines for becoming a member of the Campaign are extremely broad. This 
decision was discussed at length, and stemmed from many people's discontent 
with how the egroup has degenerated. I have heard from many people that they 
don't feel comfortable with the tone of the discussions a lot of the time, 
and they don't feel comfortable to make posts for fear of being attacked.

Regardless of your feelings on this (and we should talk about this), the 
vote was taken based on substantial debate on the matter. Frankly, I dont 
think that the decision was ideal (I myself led the proposal). but it is an 
immediate attempt to fix a problem that was actually inhibiting 
communication for the majority. this policy is not set in stone. i really 
want to hear what other people think about the state of this egroup.

Anyway, I think you need to participate yourself matt in these meetings and 
discussions so that you know exactly where people are at. I'm afraid that 
there's a lot of miscommunication and misinformation being shared. i'm not 
sure where the "intellectual property" argument comes from. I also didn't 
know that you were "concerned" about BoL's expulsion. Am I right to assume 
that you felt that way when it happened back in May (i think?)?

also in unity,
Kristina


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
>Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 17:34:06
>
>As I've just joined the Coalition for Justice egroup list, I am unclear as
>to why this exchange is taking place here as opposed to the NB Peoples'
>Campaign group list...nothing against airing out views widely, but it would
>seem that PC members would benefit from the dialogue, & that CFJ members 
>are
>likely unaware of the particulars.
>
>(Otherwise-- I think that it would be very benificial for this proposed
>meeting with Joe Mosely to take place...as much as I disagree with Joe &
>BOL/SWORD's portrayal of Curtis Warren as an right-wing, opportunistic,
>imperialist, infiltrator (sigh), my concerns about their expulsion have 
>been
>shifted into alarm when I learned that there was a vote to remove them from
>the Peoples Campaign egroup list...among the reasons sited was that this
>domain is the "intellectual property" of the NBPC...if ever I've heard a
>violation of basic democratic principles (!) this purely individualistic &
>bourgeois concept is it.  Unfortunately, I was not at the meeting to voice
>my objections, but I feel it's a dangerous road to travel down when banning
>people becomes a substitute for struggling over the ideas in a coherent and
>scientific way...remember WBAI?!
>
>In the Struggle for Unity--Matthew Smith
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
>Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:30:39 -0400
>
>name the time mosley. others should be made aware also, but the discussion
>should stay focused on the expulsion of myself, cliff and others from the
>nbpc which was/is lead by xavier. i will accept no rules that embrace the
>peoples' enemies.
>
>republicans in the garbage can!
>
>joe
>
>
>  >From: "Joseph Mosley" <joemosley1@...>
>  >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: "Coalitionfor Justice" <coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com>,	"Tom
>  >DeGloma" <tdegloma@...>,	<Xavier.hansen@...>
>  >Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
>  >Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:08:44 -0400
>  >
>  >I believe that you are on the right track Joe, but never forget that at
>  >times we can be our own worst enemy. We may disagree on procedural 
>matters
>  >but our goals must be clearly defined and supported by all.
>  >
>  >At last week's meeting of the Peoples Campaign both Tom Degloma and 
>Xavier
>  >Hansen said that you and your brother are welcome to return if you agree
>to
>  >abide by the rules. They say that you know what these rules are. I did 
>not
>  >ask because I did not want to hear their version, neither do I want to
>hear
>  >your version. I want to be as neutral as possible. What I would like to
>  >know is , are these rules acceptable to you and Cliff? If they are not,
>  >could the five of us sit down somewhere and discuss the issue or issues?
>  >
>  >Feel free to call on me any time.
>  >
>  >Peace,
>  >
>  >JoeMosley
>  >745-2602
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >----- Original Message -----
>  >From: can_bush@...
>  >Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:39 PM
>  >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
>  >
>  >
>  >in the form of an advanced political/ideological position the CFJ must
>  >advance on the present list of demands to call for reparations and
>  >self-determination for the black nation. this struggle against racist
>  >profiling will never put the CFJ on the offensive without these two
>  >demands being main slogans and organizing tools. how many people are
>  >going to march to reopen the investigation into Earl Faison's death?
>  >not that it shouldn't be a demand, but the coalition must take the
>  >particular to the general and then lead to other particulars in order
>  >to be embraced by the majority of people.
>  >
>  >for example the state police shoot up van of black youth (particular -
>  >so people march against racist profiling). state police shoot up black
>  >youth because they are run by white supremacists, so is every
>  >institution in the nation (general - so people march against every
>  >white supremacist institution, as the CFJ can present it). rutgers
>  >university is run by white supremacists, president francis lawrence
>  >stated that "black people are genetically inferior to whites...".
>  >(different particular - so now rutgers students can march against
>  >racial profiling in a more general fashion, they can demand the
>  >impeachment of university president facsist lawrence and the
>  >conviction of troopers hogan and kenna. but only if the general is
>  >properly understood, that white supremacy runs this nation will the
>  >united front against racist profiling develop.
>  >
>  >the CFJ would be limiting itself if it just focused on the narrow
>  >particulars, which it is presently doing.   therefor it must be
>  >embraced by the list of demands, reparations and self-determination
>  >for the black nation in order for us to build the broadest base of
>  >support possible for this march and then back to the movement in
>  >general. this is the way to transform the coalition to an offensive,
>  >first in our attitudes/consciousness then in our plans.
>  >
>  >this transformation, although altering to the original conception of
>  >the coalition must not be pushed in a manner of confrontation, though
>  >it must be pushed. it is a suggestion in order strengthen the
>  >coalition, therefor it must be presented as such. so if any person or
>  >group is against the proposal, they are actually against the
>  >strenthening of the coalition.
>  >
>  >although this is choppy, i had just wrote it as i understood w/no
>  >preperation, it is an important arguement. criticism, suggestions,
>  >comments are needed.
>  >
>  >Reparations and Self-Determination for the Black Nation
>  >
>  >joe
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE 
>download
>  >of MSN Explorer at <a
>  >href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1299
Sender:"Charlotte L. Kates" <ckates@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 00:25:46
Subject:TAKE BACK THE NIGHT!
Message:

Thursday, April 12, at 7 PM....TAKE BACK THE NIGHT!

The annual protest against gender violence and celebration of women's power
is returning to Rutgers next week! Women gather at Voorhees at 7 PM for
speakers and performances, followed by the famous march down George Street,
College Avenue, Hamilton, and Mine Street to Brower Commons. Women and men
will meet at Brower at 10 PM for speakers and open mic!

We are having one more planning meeting--this coming Monday, at 9:30 PM, in
the Women's Center at the DCC--come if you're interested! In addition,
T-shirts will be sold at all dining halls next week, as well as at the event
itself. They are $10 and work to support TBTN.

This event is *always* important and memorable--hope to see everyone there!

-charlotte


Charlotte L. Kates****ckates@...****clkates@...
             http://www.offlines.org/-Freedom from Scientology
 http://members.nbci.com/justinusa/-JUSTIN: Justice International
    Practice organized resistance and conscious acts of solidarity!







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1300
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 00:26:09
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

TRUTH IS TRUTH. THE LEADERSHIP OF THE PEOPLE CAMPAIGN[XAIVER, TOM, MANY
OTHERS WHOSE NAMES WILL NOT MENTION] HAVE TREATED  ME LIKE A COMMON
CRIMINAL OR WOUNDED ANIMAL. JOE SMITH, CLIFF SMITH, NIKKI, TAMARA,
ZORFIA, AND FRANK BRIGHT KEEP INFORM ABOUT WHAT HAPPENING IN THE
COMMUNITY AND PEOPLE CAMPAIGN. X , TOM AND KEITH NEVER TOLD ME ABOUT THE
LISTSERVE . IT WAS ZOFIA AND FRANK BRIGHT. ALL IN ALL, LEADERSHIP OF
PEOPLE CAMPAIGN NEED TO STOP BEING LIARS, EVIL BEASTS, AND LAZY
GLUTTONS. 

TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1301
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 00:45:32
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

although criticism of the nbpc leadership needs to be put forward and even 
embraced by the nbpc, your motives to build up a broad republican base is 
much more dangerous to the NB community than how the nbpc treats me. the 
crazy thing is - is that the nbpc treats me like they do, which in turn 
helps you build your republican base. but i will not join in your criticism 
of them, even if it is correct. i would rather just argue the same criticism 
in order to put forward the demand of Community Control.

revolutinaries unite! republicans in the garbage can!

joe


>From: TRACYFORD1420@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 00:26:09 -0400 (EDT)
>
>TRUTH IS TRUTH. THE LEADERSHIP OF THE PEOPLE CAMPAIGN[XAIVER, TOM, MANY
>OTHERS WHOSE NAMES WILL NOT MENTION] HAVE TREATED  ME LIKE A COMMON
>CRIMINAL OR WOUNDED ANIMAL. JOE SMITH, CLIFF SMITH, NIKKI, TAMARA,
>ZORFIA, AND FRANK BRIGHT KEEP INFORM ABOUT WHAT HAPPENING IN THE
>COMMUNITY AND PEOPLE CAMPAIGN. X , TOM AND KEITH NEVER TOLD ME ABOUT THE
>LISTSERVE . IT WAS ZOFIA AND FRANK BRIGHT. ALL IN ALL, LEADERSHIP OF
>PEOPLE CAMPAIGN NEED TO STOP BEING LIARS, EVIL BEASTS, AND LAZY
>GLUTTONS.
>
>TRACY FORD
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1302
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 02:03:22
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

I AM BAPTIST MINISTER AND ACTIVE REPUBLICAN WHO CARRIED OUT MY RELIGIOUS
AND BLACK NATIONALIST ACTIVITIES. I SPEAK OF LOVE AND FORGIVENESS. THE
LEADERSHIP  OF PEOPLE CAMPAIGN CRIMES OF KEEPING ME OPPRESSED, DEPRIVED
AND IGNORANT IS TRUE. TRUTH IS TRUTH. NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS.
WHAT COULD MAKE YOU DOUBT THE TRUTH OTHER THAN YOUR OWN WEAK SELF? IF
YOU ONCE BELIEVED THE TRUTH, AND YOU ARE BEGINNING TO DOUBT THE TRUTH,
THE YOU DID NOT BELIEVE THE TRUTH IN THE FIRST PLACE.
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1303
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 10:17:09
Subject:corzine and the DLC
Message:

I thought people may be interested in reading Corzine's latest position on 
the DLC and the Democratic party in general...

The Nation -
COMMENT | April 16, 2001

A Time To Be Bold
by JON CORZINE

In recent months, as a newly elected senator, I have had to decide whether 
to join the Democratic Leadership Council. I have chosen not to because 
while I shared its founding purpose, which was to frame a successful 
response to President Reagan's efforts to portray Democrats as the party of 
"tax and spend," social engineering and failed personal responsibility, I 
believe that purpose has been largely accomplished.

Today, I believe that it is vital for Democrats to stand up for a sharply 
defined progressive agenda--one that is committed to fighting for practical 
and progressive policies for working families and America's middle 
class--even when that means challenging powerful interests and the status 
quo. I am absolutely convinced that, standing on the foundation of fiscal 
stability that Democrats have built and to which the DLC contributed, we now 
have to fight for our convictions. If we begin to negotiate from the middle, 
the end result inevitably takes us to the right of where I believe our 
nation should be.

Nothing is more relevant to this point than today's debate over the Bush tax 
cut proposal. Democrats must remain firmly opposed to this budget-busting 
plan, which provides disproportionate benefits for the richest 1 percent of 
our population. It is relevant and essential to our argument that this tax 
cut is not only unfocused and poorly timed but also unfair. In fact, if we 
yield on fairness before the debate begins, we forfeit our fundamental 
ground. That is one reason I have proposed a tax cut that gives an immediate 
break to everyone equally and is targeted toward working families.

Moreover, the DLC has not convinced me that we should turn away from 
advocating an activist government--one that, for example, sees healthcare as 
a basic right for all Americans. And while compromise is an acceptable end, 
too much of it too soon has led to a paralysis on fundamental concerns such 
as healthcare, gun safety, the environment and educational opportunity.

The critical point to be made by progressives in our national debate is 
this: While there are programs that have failed and should be reformed or 
eliminated, proactive government has often succeeded. An activist government 
was a driving force in the prosperity of the 1990s, as well as in providing 
our historic safety net, including Social Security, Medicare and Head Start. 
An activist government invested in the development of the Internet and the 
space program and spurred today's technological revolution. It was 
government investment that built our highways, air transit system and much 
of our communications network. And the list goes on. Without progressive 
leadership, would segregation have been outlawed? Would women have achieved 
as much access as they now have to equal rights? The pressure for 
advancement came from grassroots progressives. That said, reform and 
progress required our government to respond and lead. We're still far from 
the ideal, as racial profiling and unequal incomes for women and minorities 
attest. There are no African-American or Latino senators, but at least there 
are thirteen women senators--surely not enough, but more than there have 
ever been before. The lesson of history is clear: Equal rights for all 
depend on public action and so do equal pay, worker safety and retirement 
security. The barriers to opportunity for all don't just fall on their own.

Today, the progressive agenda must address the great unfinished 
challenges--for women, for middle-class families, for minorities and the 
poor. It's a hopeful agenda rooted in ideas and our ideals. As I put it in 
my Senate campaign, "Everyone ought to have the same access to the American 
promise I've had." America must be a society of equal opportunity and equal 
protection before the law. So I believe the progressive agenda of our party 
is more important than ever. And the principle that should guide us is 
clear: While we can't achieve equal outcomes, we can and must assure equal 
opportunity.

We also have to articulate the truth that advancing social and economic 
justice advances everyone's prosperity. We need to challenge the special 
interests that would limit the rights of labor and the opportunities of 
women and minorities, because we need all the talents of all our people to 
achieve maximum productivity and growth. We need to challenge the health 
insurance industry and finally win the battle for universal access to 
healthcare, because it is morally right and economically rational. Just 
because conservatives have demonized the term "universal healthcare" we 
should not walk away from that battle for the sake of a calculated centrism 
that splits the difference between right and wrong.

When I was a candidate, the polls said that the majority of New Jersey 
voters disagreed with my opposition to the death penalty. I'm grateful the 
voters respected that I said what I believed even when it wasn't popular. As 
progressives, we must be ready to do that. Most of the progressive 
agenda--healthcare, the environment, gun safety, a progressive tax policy-- 
reflects the values and the ideals of the majority of our people. They will 
vote for our agenda if we present it in practical terms and fight for it.

So while I respect the contribution of the DLC and while I respect its 
leaders, I'm not ready to join. The answer to "compassionate conservatism" 
isn't timid progressivism. It's a real commitment to equal opportunity, to 
fiscal responsibility and a fair society. We can and must be a party with 
the courage to stand tall for our beliefs because that's how we will be able 
to win as the party of the people.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1304
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 10:27:36
Subject:NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
Message:

				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
				Press Secretary
				P.O. Box 131♦ New Brunswick, NJ 08903 
♦ 732/735-1342



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S OUSTER

NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's Campaign, 
a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and their 
supporters, which includes local residents from all nationalities and 
socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:

	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly welcomes 
the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey State Senate 
is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice Peter 
Verniero. 

	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and 
brutality against and mistreatment of people of color, commits a hate 
crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and severe 
punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who turn a 
blind eye to such acts.

	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent with 
those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee 
has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that Justice 
Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the state police 
and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful practice.

	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls upon the 
New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for Justice 
Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of senators from 
the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.

	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been revealed 
to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's hearings, the 
need for community control over police is now more acute than ever. 
NBPC supports community control over police, and believes that 
community control, including democratically elected civilian police 
review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate crimes of 
racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.

	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is already 
advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if they are good 
conscience, to support these efforts.

	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 732/514-0610

-30-









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1305
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 10:44:20
Subject:Fwd: VIRUS WARNING
Message:

>Subject: VIRUS WARNING
>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 09:19:47 -0400
>
>2 virus warnings are listed below.  This message was orginally sent on 
>March 29, 2001.
>
>> > > > >>>>: A new virus has just been discovered that has been  
>>classified by Microsoft  (http://www.microsoft.com/)and by McAfee
>(http://www.mcafee.com/) as the most  destructive ever! This virus was 
>discovered yesterday afternoon by McAfee and no vaccine has yet been 
>developed. This virus simply destroys Sector Zero from the hard disk, where 
>vital information for its functioning are stored. This virus acts in the 
>following manner: It sends itself automatically to all
>contacts on your list with the title "A Virtual Card for  You". As soon as 
>the supposed virtual card is opened, the  computer freezes so
>that the user has to reboot. When the  ctrl+alt+del keys or the
>reset button are pressed, the virus destroys Sector Zero, thus
>permanently destroying the hard  disk according to news broadcast by CNN 
>(http://www.cnn.com/). This alert was received by an employee of Microsoft 
>itself.  So don't open any mails with subject "A Virtual Card for  You". As 
>soon as you get the mail, delete it. Please pass on this mail to all your 
>friends. Forward this to everyone in  your address book. I would rather 
>receive this 25 times than  not at all.
>Also: Intel announced that a  new and very destructive virus
>was discovered recently.
>
>If  you receive an email called "An Internet Flower For You", do  not open 
>it. Delete it right away! This virus removes all dynamic link 
>libraries(.dll files) from your computer. Your  computer will not be able 
>to boot up.
>
>> > > > >>>>: SEND  THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR CONTACT LIST!!
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1306
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 10:37:20
Subject:Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
Message:

Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??


>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
>
>				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
>				Press Secretary
>				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick, NJ 08903
>? 732/735-1342
>
>
>
>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S OUSTER
>
>NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's Campaign,
>a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and their
>supporters, which includes local residents from all nationalities and
>socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
>
>	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly welcomes
>the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey State Senate
>is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice Peter
>Verniero.
>
>	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
>brutality against and mistreatment of people of color, commits a hate
>crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and severe
>punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who turn a
>blind eye to such acts.
>
>	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent with
>those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee
>has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that Justice
>Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the state police
>and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful practice.
>
>	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls upon the
>New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for Justice
>Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of senators from
>the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
>
>	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been revealed
>to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's hearings, the
>need for community control over police is now more acute than ever.
>NBPC supports community control over police, and believes that
>community control, including democratically elected civilian police
>review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate crimes of
>racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
>
>	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is already
>advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if they are good
>conscience, to support these efforts.
>
>	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 732/514-0610
>
>-30-
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1307
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 15:41:36
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
Message:



From: Julie Poulos
To: vivaohio@...
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:12:32 -0700 (PDT)

Matthew,
I agree wholeheartedly that intellectual debate in the spirit of unity
should be encouraged and never stifled. I think that you are looking
at this situation outside of the realistic context in which it exists.
First, let me say, that I believe that frequently, arguments of words
can only go so far, and that often, there comes a point where
individual interpretations give rise to different viewpoints,
viewpoints that cannot necessarily be proven �scientifically� with
words, but only through practice (otherwise, the ontological argument
would hold water and all the atheists would have to admit to the
existence of God.) In order to accept the �science� of the argument,
one must agree to the assumed terms of the arguer (which, like it or
not, ALWAYS exist). Just as in our circular verbal �struggle� within
NJFO, I believe that we have reached a point that can only be resolved
through practice.
As for the current state of the egroups �struggle�, it has come to a
point of �Is so!� , �Is not!� or �Yeah Huh!�, �Na Uh!�, if you ask me.
As Keith pointed out at the general meeting on Saturday, he has
responded to BOL/SWORD �very intelligently� and they still persist with
their slanderous accusations that Curtis is working for the machine &
J&J. THIS IS NEITHER INTELLECTUAL DEBATE NOR STRUGGLE IN THE SPIRIT OF
UNITY. In fact, I believe that this situation actually serves to
stifle real debate by alienating many people who are being exposed to
the concept of democratic struggle for the first time, just as the
people who attended the first post-election NJFO meeting were alienated
by the screaming, yelling, and arguing that resembled a WWF match
moreso than real intellectual political debate. People feel that if
they post anything they are opening themselves up to personal attacks.
I personally am less interested in �engaging� BOL/SWORD in their
child-like antics, and more concerned with creating a welcoming
environment where people willing to commit to the principles of the
People�s Campaign can voice concerns, questions, AND dissent, given it
is done so in a manner that examines reality, practice, and with a
spirit of respect and unity.
Additionally, if BOL/SWORD wish to continue with their slandering of
Curtis, I believe they have every right to do so. But they should not
be allowed to continue to do it in a forum that represents their ideas
as that of the Campaign, just as they should not be allowed to post
such ideas on a flyer in the name of the People�s Campaign.
In the true spirit of unity that you, in part, taught me,
Julie
PS - Feel free to post this to the group. I only sent it to you
because we it has been said numerous times to only reply to the
individual if we are replying to an individual.
--- Matthew Smith wrote:
>Flavio (& all)- With respect to the dedicated work that you and others are 
>doing to advance the cause of the people's campaign and democracy, I 
>maintain my vote of dissent on this issue. Legalese aside, it all amounts 
>to about the same thing...
>
>To wit: It is safe to assume that every PC member will subscribe to lists 1 
>& 2 (in order to get the "official communications" as well as to stay
>
>abreast of the current debates) & many will probably opt out of the third 
>unofficial, non-sponsored, non-NBPC egroup list, which is a transparent 
>token gesture seemingly to sooth certain yay-voters' consciences. This 
>model immediately shuts out the general public who are not 'official 
>members' of NBPC, which is contrary to the type of organization that we 
>must have--(I defer to Keith Joseph's stated defense of flexible 
>organizational models rooted in existing community networks and 
>institutions)
>
>Furthermore, what do "intellectual property" & "trademark law" have to do 
>with the struggle for peoples democracy & freedom? (...and for all you 
>still willing to claim revolutionary democracy & socialism: letting "a 
>hundred flowers blossom & a hundred schools of thought contend?") This 
>legal
>
>bourgeois jargon is intended to protect private property rights, not secure 
>the democratic rights of the people! (ie: NAPSTER!) These concepts are 
>diametrically opposed in principle and in substance.
>
>I have stated repeatedly and forcefully my opposition to BOL/SWORD's 
>dogmatic attacks on Curtis, but I will not accept this sort of reaction on 
>the part of the NBPC. Is this or is this not a united front? & if so, 
>should we not expect "aggravating" even infuriating and contrary positions 
>of all sort to be aired? Again I maintain that the way to deal with a bad 
>argument is to put out a better one--clearly & scientifically...and if we 
>do our job, that is, build a real base in the working class community along 
>side the existing base in the university, then the people will decide for 
>themselves what ideas work best for them. But if we continue to set the 
>precedent that dissenting voices will be silenced, then the PC will end up 
>like the ass end of Kenny G's horn heard over the muted airwaves of WBAI 
>Radio.
>
>
>----Original Message Follows---- From: Groovemeister007@... Reply-To: 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com 
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Egroups Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:02:25 -0000
>
>Matt:
>
>I think you may have been misinformed about the vote regarding egroups 
>taken on Saturday. In order to safeguard the good name of the New Brunswick 
>People's Campaign from dilution and/or tarnishing, in accordance with 
>principles of intellectual property and trademark law, the membership, with 
>two members dissenting, and one abstaining, decided that:
>
>1. there shall be one moderated listserv/Yahoogroup, in which a moderator 
>screens all messages. That list will be used for official NBPC 
>communications, e.g. meeting announcements, minutes, newsletters etc. Any 
>person can read that list but only messages approved by the moderator will 
>be posted.
>
>2. there shall be one members' listserv/Yahoogroup, unmoderated. Only NBPC 
>members can post to that list but anyone can read the list.
>
>3. there shall be one 'open' and unmoderated list/Yahoogroup in 
>substantially the form as this group where any person can post or read the 
>messages. This list will not be 'sponsored' by NBPC in any way and 
>presumably, it will contain a disclaimer so stating.
>
>The precise logistical details, including the name(s) of these lists and 
>what will become of the present list, is still under consideration. This is 
>not at all like the WBAI situation. Ample forums for debate and discussion 
>will remain. However, by parsing this group into different forums, NBPC 
>members and interested parties who choose to communicate by email will be 
>able to better manage what kind of information they want to receive. 
>Likewise, onlookers will be able to make a clear distinction between what 
>is official, what is members' debate, and what is other discussion 
>concerning NBPC.
>
>
>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to: nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________ Get your 
>FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1309
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 16:42:53
Subject:Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
Message:

Joe,

As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not convinced
of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not heard
a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I can
think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.

The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement about
reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came up, I
would be against both of those lines.

As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot condone
national self-determination, especially not for the "black nation."  I
reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-determination
for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the issue.

In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or the
members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have never had
the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it belongs in a
press statement on police brutality, something we are against in both
theory and practice?

Jim


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
> 
> 
> >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> >
> >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
> >				Press Secretary
> >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick, NJ 08903
> >? 732/735-1342
> >
> >
> >
> >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> >
> >
> >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S OUSTER
> >
> >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
Campaign,
> >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and their
> >supporters, which includes local residents from all nationalities
and
> >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
> >
> >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly welcomes
> >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey State
Senate
> >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice Peter
> >Verniero.
> >
> >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color, commits a
hate
> >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and severe
> >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who turn a
> >blind eye to such acts.
> >
> >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent with
> >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee
> >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that Justice
> >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the state
police
> >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful practice.
> >
> >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls upon the
> >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for Justice
> >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of senators
from
> >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> >
> >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been revealed
> >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's hearings,
the
> >need for community control over police is now more acute than ever.
> >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes that
> >community control, including democratically elected civilian police
> >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate crimes of
> >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> >
> >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is already
> >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if they are
good
> >conscience, to support these efforts.
> >
> >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 732/514-0610
> >
> >-30-
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1310
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 16:57:15
Subject:NEWS: DiFrancesco requests that Verniero resign
Message:

Text of DiFrancesco statement about Verniero 
The Associated Press
4/5/01 4:41 PM


Text of statement by Acting Governor Donald DiFrancesco calling for 
resignation of Supreme Court Justice Peter Verniero: 


"The foundation of our democracy is respect for the law and there is 
no higher law of this land than our Constitution. Our Constitution 
very clearly prescribes that the Senate shall have the right to 
exercise advice and consent concerning appointees to various state 
positions including nominees to the state Supreme Court. 

"For those of us who have been honored to serve in the state Senate, 
we believe that it is not just our right, but our responsibility to 
review thoroughly the nominations submitted for our consideration. As 
Senators, we have the responsibility to determine if a nominee is not 
only qualified, but has conducted him or herself in a manner 
reflective of the high office to which they have been nominated. 

"Four months ago, I directed the Senate Judiciary Committee to 
initiate a review of the circumstances and documents available 
concerning racial profiling. As part of that review they requested 
and with my consent retained Michael Chertoff as a special counsel 
for the committee. Mr. Chertoff's credentials are well known and his 
record speaks for itself. The committee examined 100,000 pages of 
documents, interviewed dozens of people, and conducted lengthy public 
hearings. By almost any measure, they have been very thorough. I want 
to thank the members of the committee for their hard work. 

"Yesterday, the members of that committee, based on the findings of 
their review, called for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice 
Peter Verniero. I know that they did not come to this conclusion 
lightly. This is a very serious matter and one that deserves and 
requires very serious and careful consideration. 

"Like many, I have followed this process through press accounts and 
news stories. But, I've also had the benefit of discussing the issue 
directly with the committee members and have spent the past few days 
reviewing this matter. 

"Having done so, I come to the conclusion that even if we give 
Justice Verniero every benefit of doubt, it is still clear that his 
original testimony withheld or misrepresented important information 
thereby misleading members of the state Senate. 

"Every nominee presented to the state Senate has an obligation to be 
completely forthright and open. Preserving the integrity of the 
process demands strict adherence to this. When a nominee fails to do 
so, he not only demeans himself, but the process, its integrity and, 
perhaps most importantly, public confidence in the institutions of 
our government. We cannot allow that to happen. 

"Justice Verniero has a long history in state government. He was a 
Chief Counsel, a Chief of Staff, and an Attorney General. These 
positions gave him broad experience with the confirmation process and 
the requirement that nominees be forthright, credible, and sincere. 
These positions gave him a deep understanding of the need to honor 
and protect the integrity of the process. 

"In this case I believe that the integrity of the process was 
violated and that Senators acted on the nomination without certain 
facts and information material to their deliberations. Accordingly, I 
have called Justice Verniero and asked for his resignation. 

"Clearly, if the information known now about the status of the 
inquiry into racial profiling from 1994 to 1999 were known then, many 
Senators, including me, would not have supported the Verniero 
nomination. 

"The record indicates that Justice Verniero knew, or at least should 
have known, that racial profiling was real, not imagined, long before 
he acknowledged it. He was privy to statistical data dating back as 
early as 1994. 

"It indicates that he withheld information relevant to profiling from 
the Justice Department. And it clearly demonstrates that he was less 
than forthright and open with the Judiciary Committee during his 
confirmation hearings. 

"For example, when asked during his confirmation by Senator Zane 
about the Justice Department's investigation, Justice Verniero did 
not disclose that he had already received a letter from them 
indicating that they had concluded their review and planned to file a 
civil rights suit. Instead, he characterized their actions as only a 
procedural step. 

"If Justice Verniero does not resign, I will ask my colleagues in the 
Senate to consider a resolution of censure. As the Senate President, 
I have an obligation to protect the institution and our role in the 
nominating process. It is absolutely appropriate for the Senate to 
condemn a nominee who violates our trust by providing anything less 
that full and complete testimony. This action is intended to send a 
message to Justice Verniero and to any future nominee who would 
consider anything less than absolute forthrightness. 

"This action does not interfere with, preclude or rule out any 
additional actions such as impeachment. A resolution of censure is 
meant only to protect the institutional integrity of the Senate as it 
relates to our role in the appointments process. 

"Let me go still further by saying that if I am governor and Justice 
Verniero becomes eligible for lifetime tenure, I will not reappoint 
Justice Verniero to the Supreme Court. 

"Some have called from Justice Verniero's impeachment. Again, we must 
turn to our constitution and recognize that impeachment is a question 
for the General Assembly. Only the Assembly is vested with the 
constitutional authority to determine if Justice Verniero's conduct 
meets the legal standards required in order to pass articles of 
impeachment. If they decide that it does, I may be called upon to 
preside over a trial in the Senate, serve as a trier of fact, and 
render judgment on the specific charges. This process is set up to 
ensure fairness and prevent any one body from serving as both judge 
and jury. Accordingly, to preserve the integrity of that process, I 
will refrain from any additional comment on impeachment until the 
Assembly takes whatever action they deem appropriate. 

"But, when we discuss a member of the judiciary, and particularly a 
member of the Supreme Court, we should expect not just compliance 
with the letter of the law, but the spirit of the law, the spirit of 
the institutions and the intent of our constitution. 

"This is a very sad and unfortunate day for New Jersey. I take no 
pleasure in seeking Justice Verniero's resignation. However, we have 
at stake the integrity of our government and the confidence of our 
citizens. Our Supreme Court has a well-deserved reputation for 
excellence. As long as Justice Verniero sits on that court, it will 
enjoy a reputation less than it is worthy of. 

"Citizens look to our courts as the final arbiter of fact and 
fairness. When a nominee fails to be completely forthright and open 
with the Senate, that undermines confidence in the process. When a 
member of the Supreme Court is viewed as having exercised his 
authority as Attorney General in a way that ignored or concealed 
certain facts, that undermines confidence in him. When those facts 
demonstrate that our citizens are not receiving equal treatment under 
the law that undermines confidence in our system. 

"Racial profiling is a blight on this state and on the honest, hard 
working men and women of law enforcement who have dedicated their 
lives to protecting us. When I authorized this review by the Senate 
Judiciary Committee, my hope was that the process would lead us 
toward steps to eradicate the evils of racial profiling and heal the 
wounds that it has created. I still hope that. 

"We've taken a number of steps in that direction already video 
camera's in cars, enhanced Trooper training and better data 
collection - and I want to commend the state troopers and their 
leaders for the good work that they've done. But all of us know that 
more should and must be done. We should not rest until we are certain 
that racial profiling has been erased. 

"I look forward to receiving what I consider to be the most important 
aspect of the Judiciary Committee's work their recommendations on 
additional steps to end racial profiling. 

"I know that the Legislature's Black and Latino Caucus has proposed 
legislation to right his wrong and I will consider those 
recommendations as well. We must all work together to cure this ill. 
Profiling may be directed at only a few groups, but it affects every 
one of us. None of us should rest until it has been stopped once and 
for all." 








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1311
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 13:10:49
Subject:Long Live the Court Tavern!
Message:

Hey folks- the Court Tavern has a long and storied history of struggling and 
against the grain of the NB Machine and for positive culture, and so far its 
been survival...for decades, they have built up networks of local 
progressive artists and activism.  My advice is to contact Bobby and ask him 
what sort of help they need...and look to bring the Court on board the 
broader struggle against this gentrification by talking it up with the 
regulars.  But approached it in an organized way (as opposed to hald a dozen 
people running to him with a dozen plans for action) so that Bobby & Co. 
feels that by working with us it will better their chance for continued 
survival rather than feeling that their establishment will be jeopordized 
further, as has happened in the past.  It's a great opportunity to bridge a 
gap between what is left of the more passive progressive/artistic NB 
community & the working class neighborhoods...

"They'll damn sure feel the fire, and they'll damn sure feel the heat...when 
the middle of the roaders take the middle of the street!"
-the late & timeless Mark Bradely, NB singer/songwriter

Matthew


----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] City Council Meeting Tonite
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 10:53:35 -0400

good work alyssa, there will definitely be a chance for the public to speak,
plus bobby alverez, owner of tavern, will be there to question city's
motives. it should be tied to the overall attack on arts and culture that is
taking place in New Brunswick in order to gain support base for arguement.

joe


 >From: Alyssa Coiley <ajoy110@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: [nbpc] City Council Meeting Tonite
 >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:39:24 -0700 (PDT)
 >
 >The Home News reported this morning that the court
 >tavern fears that it will have to close its doors to
 >city redevelopers who want to build an office on the
 >corner of Church and Spring Streets.
 >
 >We are looking for a volunteer to attend the city
 >council meeting tonight where there will be a vote on
 >this issue. Possibly there will be a chance to talk
 >about the Peoples Campaign feelings about city
 >redevelopment.
 >
 >the meeting is tonight at 7pm at City Hall on Bayard
 >St.
 >
 >Please let us know if you can attend by an email on
 >the egroups.
 >
 >thanks
 >alyssa joy
 >steering commitee rep for the women's caucus
 >
 >__________________________________________________
 >Do You Yahoo!?
 >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
 >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1312
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 17:53:27
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
Message:

To Kris, Julie, all-

(this may be lengthy, but there are alot of issue at hand, and I will try to 
address them concisely.)

1. So far nobody has presented a different version of the vote (to ban 
certain people from posting on NBPC egoup list)than what I was told by 
Keith.  To change the way the group operates in order that only official 
NBPC members can participate is the same as removing non-members because 
they present disagreeable arguments.  Flavio clearly stated his argument in 
favor of bourgeois intellectual property-rights on this list as a 
justification for the proposed WBAI-like bannings.

2. To Julie: posting an opinion on an allegedly open and democratic forum 
sponsored by the NBPC is not at all the same as posting a fraudulent flyer 
in the name of the organization.  I agree that ultimately this debate must 
be resolved in practice--but the "practice" of putting the kabash on debate 
is a bad start.  Hey look- we are telling BOL/SWORD that Curtis is not the 
main enemy, though they treat him as such.  But neither can NBPC treat 
BOL/SWORD like the main enemy and take away their right to be heard.  As a 
matter of fact, they are doing alot of interesting work with the Coalition 
for Justice, for instance, around the profiling issue that the NBPC ought to 
unite with.  But how can we if NBPC treats them like they treat Curtis?  I 
don't see any other way out of this and towards reconciliation than to lead 
by example.  Which leads me to:

3. Kris: yes, I have been growing increasingly uneasy about the expulsions 
of BOL members, as what I am witnessing is that the antagonism is growing 
sharper as a result, rather than leading towards any resolution.  BOL put 
out unnecessarily antagonistic public positions against Curtis, and my 
response to them was that they ought to have taken their criticism of his 
statements to him first, to the organization second.  If they had done so, 
then based on my experience with Curtis, he would have been open to 
listening & learning from their point of view.  Unfortunately they did not 
do this, backing both him and themselves into opposite corners.  It seems 
now that the NBPC exacerbated the situation by repeating BOL's mistake (!) 
by portraying BOL as the main enemy & booting their entire 
membership--rather than setting an example, perhaps by arranging the sort of 
sit down meeting to confront the situation with all parties on hand, as Joe 
Mosely has graciously offered to do.  One way or another, we are going to 
have to learn to resolve these splits if there is to be a true united front, 
at least in NB.  You can play hit the gopher till the moon turns blue and 
it'll keep popping up again.

Incidentally, Julie, I am not at all convinced by the justification that the 
split forced by X & co. in NJFO was a result of heated debate keeping new 
members away.  I have been with NJFO since almost the beginning and have 
seen it go through a number transformations, splits, and 
reunifications...but at no time did its membership swell to meet the ever 
anticipated decension of NB masses upon us (!) or beyond a small group of 
more or less committed people.  There will always be heated debate, and 
especially when it matters, such as in addressing the meriad of yet 
unanswered questions and unresolved issues from NJFO's role in the 
campaign--issues that in my estimation have done more to keep solid 
organizers away than any amount of cantancerous venting.

And finally, Kris- I have to level with you.  It really sickens me to have 
people that I worked so closely with repeatedly tell me that I can't have an 
opinion on these matters, or that my opinion is somehow less that valid, 
since I do not live in NB anymore.  First of all, it does nothing to address 
the issues, only you get to feel like the "outsider" where you spent years 
of sweat and blood (literally) building something up.  It's the same 
argument Tom used to discredit my postion that 1. NJFO should not have held 
its revolutionary democratic head in the sand (forsaking "struggle" for 
short term "unity") 2. That these "tactical" concessions to the 
Greens/Naderites & Republicans in a campaign was seen as hopeless by the 
campaign manager hurt us as we lost out on a huge opportunity to educate the 
sorking class public as to the relationship, for example, between the local 
and national struggle--a position that may come back to haunt us if the 
Greens move foward with their gubenatorial campaign to get Dirty Don 
elected. (I have since come to realize that all experiences were not the 
same, so I am refering to the dominant position upheld by the campaign 
leadership.)  I anycase, I do come down to the meetings as often as I can, 
but the way things have been going certainly hasn't done much to encourage 
it.

Those who profess unity without struggle
want crops without plowing the ground.

-Matthew



Matthew,

I respect the point you are trying to make with this post. However, I feel
strongly that you can't make such sharp judgement on the decisions made at
Campaign general meetings (in this case re: participation in the egroups)
when you were entirely absent from the debate. I don't know who gave you a
report of what went down, but I disagree with your characterization of what
happened.

to clarify, the decision was to change the way that the egroup operates so
that only members of the Campaign can make posts. as you know, the
guidelines for becoming a member of the Campaign are extremely broad. This
decision was discussed at length, and stemmed from many people's discontent
with how the egroup has degenerated. I have heard from many people that they
don't feel comfortable with the tone of the discussions a lot of the time,
and they don't feel comfortable to make posts for fear of being attacked.

Regardless of your feelings on this (and we should talk about this), the
vote was taken based on substantial debate on the matter. Frankly, I dont
think that the decision was ideal (I myself led the proposal). but it is an
immediate attempt to fix a problem that was actually inhibiting
communication for the majority. this policy is not set in stone. i really
want to hear what other people think about the state of this egroup.

Anyway, I think you need to participate yourself matt in these meetings and
discussions so that you know exactly where people are at. I'm afraid that
there's a lot of miscommunication and misinformation being shared. i'm not
sure where the "intellectual property" argument comes from. I also didn't
know that you were "concerned" about BoL's expulsion. Am I right to assume
that you felt that way when it happened back in May (i think?)?

also in unity,
Kristina


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 19:41:36




From: Julie Poulos
To: vivaohio@...
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:12:32 -0700 (PDT)

Matthew,
I agree wholeheartedly that intellectual debate in the spirit of unity
should be encouraged and never stifled. I think that you are looking
at this situation outside of the realistic context in which it exists.
First, let me say, that I believe that frequently, arguments of words
can only go so far, and that often, there comes a point where
individual interpretations give rise to different viewpoints,
viewpoints that cannot necessarily be proven �scientifically� with
words, but only through practice (otherwise, the ontological argument
would hold water and all the atheists would have to admit to the
existence of God.) In order to accept the �science� of the argument,
one must agree to the assumed terms of the arguer (which, like it or
not, ALWAYS exist). Just as in our circular verbal �struggle� within
NJFO, I believe that we have reached a point that can only be resolved
through practice.
As for the current state of the egroups �struggle�, it has come to a
point of �Is so!� , �Is not!� or �Yeah Huh!�, �Na Uh!�, if you ask me.
As Keith pointed out at the general meeting on Saturday, he has
responded to BOL/SWORD �very intelligently� and they still persist with
their slanderous accusations that Curtis is working for the machine &
J&J. THIS IS NEITHER INTELLECTUAL DEBATE NOR STRUGGLE IN THE SPIRIT OF
UNITY. In fact, I believe that this situation actually serves to
stifle real debate by alienating many people who are being exposed to
the concept of democratic struggle for the first time, just as the
people who attended the first post-election NJFO meeting were alienated
by the screaming, yelling, and arguing that resembled a WWF match
moreso than real intellectual political debate. People feel that if
they post anything they are opening themselves up to personal attacks.
I personally am less interested in �engaging� BOL/SWORD in their
child-like antics, and more concerned with creating a welcoming
environment where people willing to commit to the principles of the
People�s Campaign can voice concerns, questions, AND dissent, given it
is done so in a manner that examines reality, practice, and with a
spirit of respect and unity.
Additionally, if BOL/SWORD wish to continue with their slandering of
Curtis, I believe they have every right to do so. But they should not
be allowed to continue to do it in a forum that represents their ideas
as that of the Campaign, just as they should not be allowed to post
such ideas on a flyer in the name of the People�s Campaign.
In the true spirit of unity that you, in part, taught me,
Julie
PS - Feel free to post this to the group. I only sent it to you
because we it has been said numerous times to only reply to the
individual if we are replying to an individual.
--- Matthew Smith wrote:
 >Flavio (& all)- With respect to the dedicated work that you and others are
 >doing to advance the cause of the people's campaign and democracy, I
 >maintain my vote of dissent on this issue. Legalese aside, it all amounts
 >to about the same thing...
 >
 >To wit: It is safe to assume that every PC member will subscribe to lists 
1
 >& 2 (in order to get the "official communications" as well as to stay
 >
 >abreast of the current debates) & many will probably opt out of the third
 >unofficial, non-sponsored, non-NBPC egroup list, which is a transparent
 >token gesture seemingly to sooth certain yay-voters' consciences. This
 >model immediately shuts out the general public who are not 'official
 >members' of NBPC, which is contrary to the type of organization that we
 >must have--(I defer to Keith Joseph's stated defense of flexible
 >organizational models rooted in existing community networks and
 >institutions)
 >
 >Furthermore, what do "intellectual property" & "trademark law" have to do
 >with the struggle for peoples democracy & freedom? (...and for all you
 >still willing to claim revolutionary democracy & socialism: letting "a
 >hundred flowers blossom & a hundred schools of thought contend?") This
 >legal
 >
 >bourgeois jargon is intended to protect private property rights, not 
secure
 >the democratic rights of the people! (ie: NAPSTER!) These concepts are
 >diametrically opposed in principle and in substance.
 >
 >I have stated repeatedly and forcefully my opposition to BOL/SWORD's
 >dogmatic attacks on Curtis, but I will not accept this sort of reaction on
 >the part of the NBPC. Is this or is this not a united front? & if so,
 >should we not expect "aggravating" even infuriating and contrary positions
 >of all sort to be aired? Again I maintain that the way to deal with a bad
 >argument is to put out a better one--clearly & scientifically...and if we
 >do our job, that is, build a real base in the working class community 
along
 >side the existing base in the university, then the people will decide for
 >themselves what ideas work best for them. But if we continue to set the
 >precedent that dissenting voices will be silenced, then the PC will end up
 >like the ass end of Kenny G's horn heard over the muted airwaves of WBAI
 >Radio.
 >
 >
 >----Original Message Follows---- From: Groovemeister007@... 
Reply-To:
 >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: [nbpc] Re: Egroups Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:02:25 -0000
 >
 >Matt:
 >
 >I think you may have been misinformed about the vote regarding egroups
 >taken on Saturday. In order to safeguard the good name of the New 
Brunswick
 >People's Campaign from dilution and/or tarnishing, in accordance with
 >principles of intellectual property and trademark law, the membership, 
with
 >two members dissenting, and one abstaining, decided that:
 >
 >1. there shall be one moderated listserv/Yahoogroup, in which a moderator
 >screens all messages. That list will be used for official NBPC
 >communications, e.g. meeting announcements, minutes, newsletters etc. Any
 >person can read that list but only messages approved by the moderator will
 >be posted.
 >
 >2. there shall be one members' listserv/Yahoogroup, unmoderated. Only NBPC
 >members can post to that list but anyone can read the list.
 >
 >3. there shall be one 'open' and unmoderated list/Yahoogroup in
 >substantially the form as this group where any person can post or read the
 >messages. This list will not be 'sponsored' by NBPC in any way and
 >presumably, it will contain a disclaimer so stating.
 >
 >The precise logistical details, including the name(s) of these lists and
 >what will become of the present list, is still under consideration. This 
is
 >not at all like the WBAI situation. Ample forums for debate and discussion
 >will remain. However, by parsing this group into different forums, NBPC
 >members and interested parties who choose to communicate by email will be
 >able to better manage what kind of information they want to receive.
 >Likewise, onlookers will be able to make a clear distinction between what
 >is official, what is members' debate, and what is other discussion
 >concerning NBPC.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >To Post a message, send it to: nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >
 >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >
 >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________ Get your
 >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 >
 >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1313
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 20:26:55
Subject:Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
Message:

why even demand that verneiro be removed? why fight racist profiling at all, 
and not work to advance upon the current positions being put forward?

the question of "community control" (if that is still the campaign slogan?) 
is a question of self-determination. that is, that the community would 
determine their relationship to housing, childcare, education, police, &tc. 
by democratically controlling these institutions. self-determination is a 
democratic demand and as DuBios stated - either america will admit black 
people on the basis of democracy, or america will cease to exist.

do you disagree that there is an oppressed black nation in america?

joe


>From: jmluceno@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
>
>Joe,
>
>As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not convinced
>of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not heard
>a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I can
>think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
>
>The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement about
>reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came up, I
>would be against both of those lines.
>
>As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot condone
>national self-determination, especially not for the "black nation."  I
>reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-determination
>for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the issue.
>
>In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or the
>members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have never had
>the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it belongs in a
>press statement on police brutality, something we are against in both
>theory and practice?
>
>Jim
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
> >
> >
> > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > >
> > >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
> > >				Press Secretary
> > >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick, NJ 08903
> > >? 732/735-1342
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > >
> > >
> > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S OUSTER
> > >
> > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
>Campaign,
> > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and their
> > >supporters, which includes local residents from all nationalities
>and
> > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
> > >
> > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly welcomes
> > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey State
>Senate
> > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice Peter
> > >Verniero.
> > >
> > >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color, commits a
>hate
> > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and severe
> > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who turn a
> > >blind eye to such acts.
> > >
> > >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent with
> > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee
> > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that Justice
> > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the state
>police
> > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful practice.
> > >
> > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls upon the
> > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for Justice
> > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of senators
>from
> > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > >
> > >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been revealed
> > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's hearings,
>the
> > >need for community control over police is now more acute than ever.
> > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes that
> > >community control, including democratically elected civilian police
> > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate crimes of
> > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > >
> > >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is already
> > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if they are
>good
> > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > >
> > >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 732/514-0610
> > >
> > >-30-
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1314
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 20:44:48
Subject:Re: don't cut of your platform to please republicans!
Message:

julie, who said that curtis is working for the city machine or J&J to begin 
with? not me! why don't you ask curtis why he made those statements and 
demand he accept criticism for them. do you seriously suggest that we 
shouldn't criticize those that claim to represent community control and then 
speak of the exact opposite?

julie wrote:

Additionally, if BOL/SWORD wish to continue with their slandering of
Curtis, I believe they have every right to do so. But they should not
be allowed to continue to do it in a forum that represents their ideas
as that of the Campaign, just as they should not be allowed to post

julie, i don't understand that if we have a right to, as you say slander, 
then why have we been evicted. and further more, you are going to have a 
tough time explaining to people that tamara dahan "slandered" anyone, as she 
was thrown out of the campaign with no explaination over a month after BOL.

joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 19:41:36
>
>
>
>
>From: Julie Poulos
>To: vivaohio@...
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:12:32 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Matthew,
>I agree wholeheartedly that intellectual debate in the spirit of unity
>should be encouraged and never stifled. I think that you are looking
>at this situation outside of the realistic context in which it exists.
>First, let me say, that I believe that frequently, arguments of words
>can only go so far, and that often, there comes a point where
>individual interpretations give rise to different viewpoints,
>viewpoints that cannot necessarily be proven �scientifically� with
>words, but only through practice (otherwise, the ontological argument
>would hold water and all the atheists would have to admit to the
>existence of God.) In order to accept the �science� of the argument,
>one must agree to the assumed terms of the arguer (which, like it or
>not, ALWAYS exist). Just as in our circular verbal �struggle� within
>NJFO, I believe that we have reached a point that can only be resolved
>through practice.
>As for the current state of the egroups �struggle�, it has come to a
>point of �Is so!� , �Is not!� or �Yeah Huh!�, �Na Uh!�, if you ask me.
>As Keith pointed out at the general meeting on Saturday, he has
>responded to BOL/SWORD �very intelligently� and they still persist with
>their slanderous accusations that Curtis is working for the machine &
>J&J. THIS IS NEITHER INTELLECTUAL DEBATE NOR STRUGGLE IN THE SPIRIT OF
>UNITY. In fact, I believe that this situation actually serves to
>stifle real debate by alienating many people who are being exposed to
>the concept of democratic struggle for the first time, just as the
>people who attended the first post-election NJFO meeting were alienated
>by the screaming, yelling, and arguing that resembled a WWF match
>moreso than real intellectual political debate. People feel that if
>they post anything they are opening themselves up to personal attacks.
>I personally am less interested in �engaging� BOL/SWORD in their
>child-like antics, and more concerned with creating a welcoming
>environment where people willing to commit to the principles of the
>People�s Campaign can voice concerns, questions, AND dissent, given it
>is done so in a manner that examines reality, practice, and with a
>spirit of respect and unity.
>Additionally, if BOL/SWORD wish to continue with their slandering of
>Curtis, I believe they have every right to do so. But they should not
>be allowed to continue to do it in a forum that represents their ideas
>as that of the Campaign, just as they should not be allowed to post
>such ideas on a flyer in the name of the People�s Campaign.
>In the true spirit of unity that you, in part, taught me,
>Julie
>PS - Feel free to post this to the group. I only sent it to you
>because we it has been said numerous times to only reply to the
>individual if we are replying to an individual.
>--- Matthew Smith wrote:
> >Flavio (& all)- With respect to the dedicated work that you and others 
>are
> >doing to advance the cause of the people's campaign and democracy, I
> >maintain my vote of dissent on this issue. Legalese aside, it all amounts
> >to about the same thing...
> >
> >To wit: It is safe to assume that every PC member will subscribe to lists 
>1
> >& 2 (in order to get the "official communications" as well as to stay
> >
> >abreast of the current debates) & many will probably opt out of the third
> >unofficial, non-sponsored, non-NBPC egroup list, which is a transparent
> >token gesture seemingly to sooth certain yay-voters' consciences. This
> >model immediately shuts out the general public who are not 'official
> >members' of NBPC, which is contrary to the type of organization that we
> >must have--(I defer to Keith Joseph's stated defense of flexible
> >organizational models rooted in existing community networks and
> >institutions)
> >
> >Furthermore, what do "intellectual property" & "trademark law" have to do
> >with the struggle for peoples democracy & freedom? (...and for all you
> >still willing to claim revolutionary democracy & socialism: letting "a
> >hundred flowers blossom & a hundred schools of thought contend?") This
> >legal
> >
> >bourgeois jargon is intended to protect private property rights, not 
>secure
> >the democratic rights of the people! (ie: NAPSTER!) These concepts are
> >diametrically opposed in principle and in substance.
> >
> >I have stated repeatedly and forcefully my opposition to BOL/SWORD's
> >dogmatic attacks on Curtis, but I will not accept this sort of reaction 
>on
> >the part of the NBPC. Is this or is this not a united front? & if so,
> >should we not expect "aggravating" even infuriating and contrary 
>positions
> >of all sort to be aired? Again I maintain that the way to deal with a bad
> >argument is to put out a better one--clearly & scientifically...and if we
> >do our job, that is, build a real base in the working class community 
>along
> >side the existing base in the university, then the people will decide for
> >themselves what ideas work best for them. But if we continue to set the
> >precedent that dissenting voices will be silenced, then the PC will end 
>up
> >like the ass end of Kenny G's horn heard over the muted airwaves of WBAI
> >Radio.
> >
> >
> >----Original Message Follows---- From: Groovemeister007@... 
>Reply-To:
> >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [nbpc] Re: Egroups Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:02:25 -0000
> >
> >Matt:
> >
> >I think you may have been misinformed about the vote regarding egroups
> >taken on Saturday. In order to safeguard the good name of the New 
>Brunswick
> >People's Campaign from dilution and/or tarnishing, in accordance with
> >principles of intellectual property and trademark law, the membership, 
>with
> >two members dissenting, and one abstaining, decided that:
> >
> >1. there shall be one moderated listserv/Yahoogroup, in which a moderator
> >screens all messages. That list will be used for official NBPC
> >communications, e.g. meeting announcements, minutes, newsletters etc. Any
> >person can read that list but only messages approved by the moderator 
>will
> >be posted.
> >
> >2. there shall be one members' listserv/Yahoogroup, unmoderated. Only 
>NBPC
> >members can post to that list but anyone can read the list.
> >
> >3. there shall be one 'open' and unmoderated list/Yahoogroup in
> >substantially the form as this group where any person can post or read 
>the
> >messages. This list will not be 'sponsored' by NBPC in any way and
> >presumably, it will contain a disclaimer so stating.
> >
> >The precise logistical details, including the name(s) of these lists and
> >what will become of the present list, is still under consideration. This 
>is
> >not at all like the WBAI situation. Ample forums for debate and 
>discussion
> >will remain. However, by parsing this group into different forums, NBPC
> >members and interested parties who choose to communicate by email will be
> >able to better manage what kind of information they want to receive.
> >Likewise, onlookers will be able to make a clear distinction between what
> >is official, what is members' debate, and what is other discussion
> >concerning NBPC.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To Post a message, send it to: nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________ Get 
>your
> >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
>__________________________________________________
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>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1315
Sender:"Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 00:21:36
Subject:lsit serve expulsions
Message:

Kris and whoever else may be interested,

I explained to Matt the decision that took place at the last PC meeting to 
turn the list serve into an exclusive list. This was done for the expressed 
purpose to expel block on lock from the discussion but it also expels anyone 
who is not a member of the campaign. Non-members currently make up the 
overwhelming majority of New Brunswick residents. Flavio made and repeated 
on this list the argument that proceeds from a principle of intellectual
property rights and trademark rights:

" In order to safeguard the good name of
the New Brunswick People's Campaign from dilution and/or tarnishing,
in accordance with principles of intellectual property and trademark
law, the membership, with two members dissenting, and one abstaining..."

In my opinion this decision makes a mockery of any claims to democracy. 
Flavio is without doubt a brilliant legal mind, but he has not yet learned 
to view bourgeois law critically though he has clearly mastered it. The 
notion of "Intellectual property rights" while resting on sound footing in 
terms of bourgeois law are diametrically opposed to even basic principles of 
humanism and much more people's or revolutionary democracy. Human advance be 
it technological, productive, or intellectual is the collective heritage and 
birthright of every single person on the planet. No one person creates
anything. For instance Jimi Hendrix's music is not possible on the one hand 
without the blues and on the other without an electeric guitar, which is not 
possible without work songs on the one hand and electricity on the other. 
All of this requires a certain level of development. The People's Campaign 
should be taking strong positions against the whole idea of intellectual 
property rights and certainly not employing it as a trump over open debate. 
Once again issues of ownership, control, and a proprietary attitude are at
the fore. This is the opposite attitude needed if the Campaign is going to 
be a vehicle for working people in New Brunswick.

In my opinion the decision at the last meeting was shameful. There is a 
principle at hand here but it has nothing to do with property rights...
or maybe it does...

Keith
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1316
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 16:10:55
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

Is this the same Tracy Ford that approached CU as a Christian minister, 
eventually joined and embraced communism, then left for a brief Muslim 
stint, and had since become a rebublican shephard looking for a flock?  
Because not for nothing, but he's as confusing as ever.

----Original Message Follows----
From: TRACYFORD1420@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 02:03:22 -0400 (EDT)

I AM BAPTIST MINISTER AND ACTIVE REPUBLICAN WHO CARRIED OUT MY RELIGIOUS
AND BLACK NATIONALIST ACTIVITIES. I SPEAK OF LOVE AND FORGIVENESS. THE
LEADERSHIP  OF PEOPLE CAMPAIGN CRIMES OF KEEPING ME OPPRESSED, DEPRIVED
AND IGNORANT IS TRUE. TRUTH IS TRUTH. NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS.
WHAT COULD MAKE YOU DOUBT THE TRUTH OTHER THAN YOUR OWN WEAK SELF? IF
YOU ONCE BELIEVED THE TRUTH, AND YOU ARE BEGINNING TO DOUBT THE TRUTH,
THE YOU DID NOT BELIEVE THE TRUTH IN THE FIRST PLACE.
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1317
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 04:15:52
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

ST. PETER DENIED CHRIST THREE TIMES. BUT HE IS THE NUMBER ONE APOSTLE. I
WAS FIRST BAPTIST AND REPUBLICAN SO I DECIDED TO RETURNED TO MY FIRST
LOVE. I LEFT THEM BECAUSE PEOPLE CAME IN AND PUSH ME OUT. I TRY
SOCIALISM, TRY COMMUNISM, AND ISLAM. WHEN I WAS A CHILD I PLAYED WITH
CHILDISH THINGS AND BUT NOW I AM ADULT . I PUT AWAY CHILDISH THINGS AND
PUT MY CONCERN ON SERIOUS THINGS. BECAUSE PLAY-TIME IS OVER. I BECAME AN
APOSTLE OF JESUS CHRIST. I HAVE A FLOCK WHICH WAS GIVEN TO ME CARE FOR
BY JESUS, BEFORE I DO NOT HAVE ONE IS TRUE. MY FLOCK IS HUNDRED  STRONG.
IF YOU WANT TO SEE ME PREACH TO THEM COME TO TRAVELERS FELLOWSHIP
BAPTIST CHURCH LOCATED AT 33 POPULAR ROAD IN PISCATAWAY, N.J. ON APRIL
23 MONDAY AT 7:00PM. ALL ARE WELCOME. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME NOW OR HOW DO
LIKE ME NOW???
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1318
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 09:35:33
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

tracy ford is also a liar and a con. he's being puppeteered by bright, NB 
bush. ever since bright got position on housing authority, we see his true 
supporters coming out ie. el curtis and tracy and nbpc, yes nbpc because 
silence and no opposition and no public self-criticism for being the 
ultimate reason this was able to happen means support. i can only hope that 
the next office you out of towners produce doesn't result in all this harm 
to THE NEW BRUNSWICK COMMUNITY that you falsely claim to represent.

but i thought this heading is to discuss a meeting with mosley to discuss 
the expulsion of nbpc from the community. i mean the expulsion of slogan 
"community control" from the nbpc. ok i really mean to discuss the infinite 
expulsion of six and counting of the most dedicated people to opposing the 
rise of fascism here on the streets of NB from the nbpc. why do you think 
mosley doesn't understand? because he sees that we are working harder and 
more effectively than an organization that at least triples SWORD with 
membership and resources. and he just can't understand that an organization 
can claim to represent the people and simotaneously fight against the 
communists and revolutionaries and NB youth, only to embrace the peoples' 
enemies-REPUBLICANS ARE THE PEOPLES ENEMIES. he is also probably very 
confused as to why nbpc would work without the community plan for a 
community center. though mosley would never step on anybody's toes, this is 
no less than a smack in the face for his developed plans for a community 
center. can nbpc post your plans, all i know is $15,000 by september and 
debrah's money. xavier do you think amiri/myself is wrong to call you an 
economist? (that is word of mouth, if amiri didn't say it i am)

joe
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1319
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 09:39:07
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

tracy i didn't like you before, but before we had a workable relationship. 
how is it again that communism is childish, big man? republicans in the 
garbage can!

joe


>From: TRACYFORD1420@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
>Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 04:15:52 -0400 (EDT)
>
>ST. PETER DENIED CHRIST THREE TIMES. BUT HE IS THE NUMBER ONE APOSTLE. I
>WAS FIRST BAPTIST AND REPUBLICAN SO I DECIDED TO RETURNED TO MY FIRST
>LOVE. I LEFT THEM BECAUSE PEOPLE CAME IN AND PUSH ME OUT. I TRY
>SOCIALISM, TRY COMMUNISM, AND ISLAM. WHEN I WAS A CHILD I PLAYED WITH
>CHILDISH THINGS AND BUT NOW I AM ADULT . I PUT AWAY CHILDISH THINGS AND
>PUT MY CONCERN ON SERIOUS THINGS. BECAUSE PLAY-TIME IS OVER. I BECAME AN
>APOSTLE OF JESUS CHRIST. I HAVE A FLOCK WHICH WAS GIVEN TO ME CARE FOR
>BY JESUS, BEFORE I DO NOT HAVE ONE IS TRUE. MY FLOCK IS HUNDRED  STRONG.
>IF YOU WANT TO SEE ME PREACH TO THEM COME TO TRAVELERS FELLOWSHIP
>BAPTIST CHURCH LOCATED AT 33 POPULAR ROAD IN PISCATAWAY, N.J. ON APRIL
>23 MONDAY AT 7:00PM. ALL ARE WELCOME. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME NOW OR HOW DO
>LIKE ME NOW???���
>TRACY FORD
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1320
Sender:Zofia Nowakowski <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 10:42:34
Subject:listserve
Message:

My opinion on the listserve has nothing to do with
intellectual property rights but the desire to keep
people interested in the campaign on the listserve, so
that the list can serve its function as a place where
people concerned about the campaign can discuss it.
  
Over the last few weeks I noticed the following:  1.
It has been brought to my attention that members are
leaving the listserve because it has become dominated
by the antagonisms largely of a few people not even in
the campaign 2. The machine is printing out and
sharing everything we write, and alot of it is not
representative of the campaign. One member brought up
this concern and we had a full discussion of this in
women's caucus.  3. The last anonymous obscene posting
was the last straw for me.  At the very least people
should stand for what they post on this site.

The need to address the listserve has been brought
forward by members in the campaign.  At the last
meeting, we tried to address it.

I opposed a moderator because that to me is the direct
practice of censorship.  What other approaches do we
have than setting up 3 lists, so that each person
concerned about the campaign can be a part of
information sharing and discussion to the greatest
extent possible?  I am open to other solutions, but
the problem of #1. above is of greatest concern to me
and my understanding is it must be addressed so people
in the campaign remain involved in discussion.  

Weve got alot of huge, critical decisions coming up
and I have no idea how we will make informed decisions
without informed discussion.  I feel extremely
uncomfortable making any of the upcoming decisions
without all of us receiving more information and
exploring all the issues, to the point where I think
we shouldnt vote on them until we have discussed them
thoroughly, and that means not just a few people,
those who propose these ideas or are in leadership
positions, but as much of the membership as possible.

Any other ideas about ways to have this listserve be a
more broadly accessible forum for discussion? 
Fortunately or unfortunately, not everyone has such a
high tolerance for antagonism as those who have been
dominating this list.

__________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1321
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 11:03:56
Subject:Re: lsit [sic] serve expulsions
Message:

Speaking for myself and not as campaign GC....

This latest line of debate is more than a little puzzling.  Let's 
first talk about what the March 31 decision was.  I posted it in 
detail in message 1293 based on my notes for the meeting.  But let's 
review:

At the last general meeting, the membership overwhelmingly voted to 
create two NBPC-sponsored yahoogroups/listservs, each of which could 
be read by ANYONE.  One of those groups would be moderated, so as to 
limit it to posting only official NBPC materials.  In the second, 
posting rights would be broader but would be limited to membership.  
Next, the membership also voted to have a forum substantially like 
the present one, i.e. where anyone whether a member or not, could 
post or read.

Keith was at the meeting and he should know that what I've outlined 
above is what was voted by the members.  Yet, he infers that there 
have been "listserv expulsions" ordered by the membership.  Where, 
Keith?  You know it isn't so.

Two NEW forums have been created.  The present forum will continue... 
perhaps under this name, perhaps not, but it will continue.  Where 
are all these expulsions you speak of?  Two new forums are being 
created!  Where is the repression?  Any nonmember will be able to 
continue to rant and rave as much as they wish, but it will not be on 
a board in which NBPC sponsorship can be inferred.

I don't know why everyone voted as they did at the meeting.  I have 
advanced some of the reasons why I voted as I did and I do not 
retreat from them.  Without going into detail, suffice it to say that 
neither your views nor Matt's have persuaded me to the contrary.

Some other members argued that in order to empower people to better 
manage the information they receive, the groups should be parsed 
out.  I generally share this view.  But some thinkers on this 
listserv claim that people shouldn't have this choice.  They argue 
that there should be one listserv only for nonmembers' rantings as 
well as official business.  The members' votes from March 31 offers 
people a choice to join any one or all of these new forums.  Let 
people make this decision!  Who are we to make this choice for them?  
Perhaps they think that other choices of theirs should be taken away 
as well!

For the record, some other members have said that the debate on this 
board was 'intimidating' to potential new members and that's why they 
voted as they did at the 3/31 meeting.  Personally I do not agree 
with that as a basis.  The campaign needs advocates who will be 
fierce, not a bunch of Milquetoasts when faced with a view that 
conflicts with their own, will get scared.  That's not the kind of 
advocate that the people of New Brunswick need at city council 
meetings or in polling places.

The good name of NBPC was being diluted and tarnished under unfair 
circumstances.  I believe that an organization has a right to defend 
itself and that is why I voted as I did.  The decision has now been 
made and because the Steering Committee follows the decisions of the 
general meetings and does not disobey them, the decision will be 
implemented forthwith.



--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...> 
wrote:
> Kris and whoever else may be interested,
> 
> I explained to Matt the decision that took place at the last PC 
meeting to 
> turn the list serve into an exclusive list. This was done for the 
expressed 
> purpose to expel block on lock from the discussion but it also 
expels anyone 
> who is not a member of the campaign. Non-members currently make up 
the 
> overwhelming majority of New Brunswick residents. Flavio made and 
repeated 
> on this list the argument that proceeds from a principle of 
intellectual
> property rights and trademark rights:
> 
> " In order to safeguard the good name of
> the New Brunswick People's Campaign from dilution and/or tarnishing,
> in accordance with principles of intellectual property and trademark
> law, the membership, with two members dissenting, and one 
abstaining..."
> 
> In my opinion this decision makes a mockery of any claims to 
democracy. 
> Flavio is without doubt a brilliant legal mind, but he has not yet 
learned 
> to view bourgeois law critically though he has clearly mastered it. 
The 
> notion of "Intellectual property rights" while resting on sound 
footing in 
> terms of bourgeois law are diametrically opposed to even basic 
principles of 
> humanism and much more people's or revolutionary democracy. Human 
advance be 
> it technological, productive, or intellectual is the collective 
heritage and 
> birthright of every single person on the planet. No one person 
creates
> anything. For instance Jimi Hendrix's music is not possible on the 
one hand 
> without the blues and on the other without an electeric guitar, 
which is not 
> possible without work songs on the one hand and electricity on the 
other. 
> All of this requires a certain level of development. The People's 
Campaign 
> should be taking strong positions against the whole idea of 
intellectual 
> property rights and certainly not employing it as a trump over open 
debate. 
> Once again issues of ownership, control, and a proprietary attitude 
are at
> the fore. This is the opposite attitude needed if the Campaign is 
going to 
> be a vehicle for working people in New Brunswick.
> 
> In my opinion the decision at the last meeting was shameful. There 
is a 
> principle at hand here but it has nothing to do with property 
rights...
> or maybe it does...
> 
> Keith
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1322
Sender:"Charlotte L. Kates" <ckates@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 11:05:56
Subject:Re: [nbpc] listserve
Message:

Zofia,

A moderated listserv doesn't have to mean censorship. I am on many moderated
listservs, all of which tend to pass on information when it is relevant to
the list at hand, rather than merely aimlessly spammed, or completely
outside the guidelines of the list. I also think it's important to keep in
mind that a yahoogroups.com listserv is not overwhelmingly the best means to
involve "the vast majority of the New Brunswick working class," who, as some
have pointed out, are overwhelmingly not Campaign "members," as of yet.
However, many do not have access to the Internet, and of those that do, is
there some reason anyone would think that debate at the level of rival
snarkiness would really cause people to spend the little time they have at
home with their families "debating" these "issues"? All that has happened is
that those who are already discussing issues on the listserv are disgusted
by its current tenor and lack any desire to post to such a forum. There is
no "exclusion" of the New Brunswick working class--indeed, should a
community member decide to subscribe to the list and post something
political, it would bounce to said moderator. The moderator would, I would
hope, read all bounced messages--and, if they're relevant, clear the person
for discussion on the second list. It's not something either difficult to
do, or set in stone for all eternity. I've moderated egroups/yahoogroups.com
lists, and it's incredibly quick and easy to change people's access to
various lists.

However, the real concern seems to be that "people will not subscribe" to
the third list. If the dialogue at hand is relevant to the members of the NB
community people seem to think are somehow being excluded by the first two
lists, certainly, they will subscribe and participate, and people will note
this and also subscribe and participate. If it remains a reflection of a
very few people representative of a very few specific organizations sniping
at one another, no, people most likely won't subscribe. That's not
reflective of disdain for free speech. It's a simple reality--we most have a
limited amount of free time, and choose to spend it as productively as
possible--and getting into sniping flamewars doesn't really fit that
description.

-charlotte.


Charlotte L. Kates****ckates@...****clkates@...
             http://www.offlines.org/-Freedom from Scientology
 http://members.nbci.com/justinusa/-JUSTIN: Justice International
    Practice organized resistance and conscious acts of solidarity!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zofia Nowakowski" <znowakowski@...>
To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:42 AM
Subject: [nbpc] listserve


> My opinion on the listserve has nothing to do with
> intellectual property rights but the desire to keep
> people interested in the campaign on the listserve, so
> that the list can serve its function as a place where
> people concerned about the campaign can discuss it.
>
> Over the last few weeks I noticed the following:  1.
> It has been brought to my attention that members are
> leaving the listserve because it has become dominated
> by the antagonisms largely of a few people not even in
> the campaign 2. The machine is printing out and
> sharing everything we write, and alot of it is not
> representative of the campaign. One member brought up
> this concern and we had a full discussion of this in
> women's caucus.  3. The last anonymous obscene posting
> was the last straw for me.  At the very least people
> should stand for what they post on this site.
>
> The need to address the listserve has been brought
> forward by members in the campaign.  At the last
> meeting, we tried to address it.
>
> I opposed a moderator because that to me is the direct
> practice of censorship.  What other approaches do we
> have than setting up 3 lists, so that each person
> concerned about the campaign can be a part of
> information sharing and discussion to the greatest
> extent possible?  I am open to other solutions, but
> the problem of #1. above is of greatest concern to me
> and my understanding is it must be addressed so people
> in the campaign remain involved in discussion.
>
> Weve got alot of huge, critical decisions coming up
> and I have no idea how we will make informed decisions
> without informed discussion.  I feel extremely
> uncomfortable making any of the upcoming decisions
> without all of us receiving more information and
> exploring all the issues, to the point where I think
> we shouldnt vote on them until we have discussed them
> thoroughly, and that means not just a few people,
> those who propose these ideas or are in leadership
> positions, but as much of the membership as possible.
>
> Any other ideas about ways to have this listserve be a
> more broadly accessible forum for discussion?
> Fortunately or unfortunately, not everyone has such a
> high tolerance for antagonism as those who have been
> dominating this list.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
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>







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1323
Sender:Alyssa Coiley <ajoy110@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 11:34:35
Subject:A new listserve PLEASE!!!
Message:

WHEN IS THE LISTSERVE GOING TO CHANGE SO ONLY MEMBERS
CAN PARTICIPATE? 

frankly i am through with the whole discussion and it
is messages like the one below that have ended it for
me.  It is comments like these that caused the
disscussion in the womens caucus meeting in the first
place (we then brought it to the larger body).  

do we think the FBI just dissapeared after the black
panthers, that cointellpro doesn't exist? people are
reading this crap, and they're laughing and they're
planning how to exacerbate the situation even more so
we wont get anything done.  this is how the revolution
was smashed in the 70's and we need to read our
histroy and learn from it.

we do not have time to be name calling, its
ridiculous.  we have serious work to do. why isn't
anyone talking about how to fill all of the positions
that aren't filled in the campaign so more people are
doing work and we expand and grow?  why are we
fighting all of the time?  

i think we need to recognize that we are the richest
people in the world and no one else has time to argue
like we do.  frankly we don't either.  you call
yourself a revolutionary? you say you want unity?  do
it, don't say it.  if you have time to write four five
emails a day bashing all of the work that people are
doing, you are wasting your time and everyone else's
who has to read your crap.

this is why we are creating a new list serve that is
for members only.  because the members of the campaign
are using their democratic right to controll what
their name is involved in. and we are interested in
doing work and the other people are not.  all they
want to do is sit at their computer all day and
disrespect people in a public forum and attack all of
the good work we are doing while they do nothing but
try to break up the movement they are riding on.     

im sick of this shit and yeah im gonna say it just
like that. i cant wait until we get a new listserve so
i dont have to read all the bullshit anymore.

alyssa joy
     
--- joseph smith <can_bush@...> wrote:
> tracy i didn't like you before, but before we had a
> workable relationship. 
> how is it again that communism is childish, big man?
> republicans in the 
> garbage can!
> 
> joe
> 
> 
> >From: TRACYFORD1420@...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
> >Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 04:15:52 -0400 (EDT)
> >
> >ST. PETER DENIED CHRIST THREE TIMES. BUT HE IS THE
> NUMBER ONE APOSTLE. I
> >WAS FIRST BAPTIST AND REPUBLICAN SO I DECIDED TO
> RETURNED TO MY FIRST
> >LOVE. I LEFT THEM BECAUSE PEOPLE CAME IN AND PUSH
> ME OUT. I TRY
> >SOCIALISM, TRY COMMUNISM, AND ISLAM. WHEN I WAS A
> CHILD I PLAYED WITH
> >CHILDISH THINGS AND BUT NOW I AM ADULT . I PUT AWAY
> CHILDISH THINGS AND
> >PUT MY CONCERN ON SERIOUS THINGS. BECAUSE PLAY-TIME
> IS OVER. I BECAME AN
> >APOSTLE OF JESUS CHRIST. I HAVE A FLOCK WHICH WAS
> GIVEN TO ME CARE FOR
> >BY JESUS, BEFORE I DO NOT HAVE ONE IS TRUE. MY
> FLOCK IS HUNDRED  STRONG.
> >IF YOU WANT TO SEE ME PREACH TO THEM COME TO
> TRAVELERS FELLOWSHIP
> >BAPTIST CHURCH LOCATED AT 33 POPULAR ROAD IN
> PISCATAWAY, N.J. ON APRIL
> >23 MONDAY AT 7:00PM. ALL ARE WELCOME. DO YOU
> UNDERSTAND ME NOW OR HOW DO
> >LIKE ME NOW???���
> >TRACY FORD
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com
> 
> 
> To Post a message, send it to:  
> nbpeoplescampaign@...
> 
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> 
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1324
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 12:39:34
Subject:Re: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
Message:

Just a quick note on this impending disaster for local culture in NB:


One of the very first cultural experiences that I had when I first moved to 
New Brunswick (following a year long motorcycle journey across the country) 
was a deeply moving memorial service at the Court Tavern for some guy 
everyone was grieving for named Mark Bradley.  They talked about him like he 
was the local Bob Dylan.  I can still clearly remember the feeling I had 
when I walked into the Court for the first time & one of his close friends 
whose name I never got was sitting in an old barber's chair sobbing and 
asking the wind "Why couldn't it have been me?..."  For the next few years I 
spent getting active in community organizing & setting up fund raising 
events (remember 77 Central?!), I met various and sundry artists & musicians 
who knew and would talk about Mark the mistrel, the songwriter, the cook, 
the friend--and when the CD came out, I finally had a glimpse of what 
everyone was missing so deeply.  There was a spirit there, and a 
consiousness...an awareness and a song.  Mark Bradley, though I never met 
him, made my life in NB have a meaning and purpose that it might never have 
had otherwise.  I still shed a tear when I think about him like this, & I 
never even met him.  Maybe he represents to me a world that could be and 
should be but isn't and sometimes that world seems to come within reach, 
while other times it seems to be slipping away into some primordial 
mist........  Now, the thought of the Court Tavern--where this all began for 
me, and probably so many other in their own way--the thought of it going 
under the recking ball so that those god-damned lifeless corporate zombies 
can put up another one of their sickening institutional pink & mauve 
frankenstein buildings makes me numb!  We see it all around us in NB.  
Everytime I go back to visit, I see another block that's been closed off or 
bulldozed & another lego development is going up...& I know that there used 
to be a community there with real people who were living real lives, & I 
wonder where they go.  So now maybe it's coming home for me and many of you 
who always had somewhere to go to in NB to see a familiar face.  & my 
question is, what are we going to do about it?  I don't have any easy 
answers, but I would say that people need to start thinking really hard out 
loud about if we want to sit back and watch it all slip into the mist...or 
if we are going to defend one of the last real spaces that we have left!

"They're going to feel the fire, and they'll damn sure feel the heat,
when the middle of the roaders take the middle of the street!"

             -the late and timeless Mark Bradely

...& in the last words of Eliot Katz's tribute poem to Mark:

               "Down with the Multinationals!"

--Matthew Smith


----original message-----

From: Tom Murphy
Subject: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:17:35 -0400

For everyone who might be interested to know.....


http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,376861,00.html



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1325
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 13:03:14
Subject:Re: [nbpc] listserve
Message:

I second that motion.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1326
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 13:09:14
Subject:Re: lsit [sic] serve expulsions
Message:

Flavio, & all-

I think that as long as the substance of this debate remains shrouded in 
formalism, we will not find an agreeable solution.  The heart of the matter 
lies in this "second, members only" group list & it gets into the nature of 
the NBPC organization itself: is this to be an open & flexible united front 
organization that is broad enough to include every view point where we can 
find some basis for unity against a common enemy, as I would argue is the 
case with BOL/SWORD?  OR- is the NBPC going to become a kind of limited 
socially progressive/liberal advocate organization fettered by its own 
bureaucratic legalese and court-room like formalies?  You can argue that 
"nothing is changed, this list remains, only a second is created for 
members" or we can cut to the issue at hand and recognize that the NBPC will 
no longer be associated with the only truly open discussion list & will 
limit ITS debate to "members only", restricting not only BOL/SWORD access, 
but ANY public member who hasn't OFFICIALLY joined the organization.

That said, while I agree with Alyssa's statement that the 
"put-up-your-dukes" tone of certain individuals is making this debate 
extremely vulnerable to cointel type interferance, (not to mention making it 
extremely difficult to defend their right to participate) I must maintain my 
position against closing the OFFICIAL NBPC list off to the public at large, 
as we are really struggling over what type of organization this is to be.

Struggling for Unity --Matthew


----Original Message Follows----
From: Groovemeister007@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Re: lsit [sic] serve expulsions
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 15:03:56 -0000

Speaking for myself and not as campaign GC....

This latest line of debate is more than a little puzzling.  Let's
first talk about what the March 31 decision was.  I posted it in
detail in message 1293 based on my notes for the meeting.  But let's
review:

At the last general meeting, the membership overwhelmingly voted to
create two NBPC-sponsored yahoogroups/listservs, each of which could
be read by ANYONE.  One of those groups would be moderated, so as to
limit it to posting only official NBPC materials.  In the second,
posting rights would be broader but would be limited to membership.
Next, the membership also voted to have a forum substantially like
the present one, i.e. where anyone whether a member or not, could
post or read.

Keith was at the meeting and he should know that what I've outlined
above is what was voted by the members.  Yet, he infers that there
have been "listserv expulsions" ordered by the membership.  Where,
Keith?  You know it isn't so.

Two NEW forums have been created.  The present forum will continue...
perhaps under this name, perhaps not, but it will continue.  Where
are all these expulsions you speak of?  Two new forums are being
created!  Where is the repression?  Any nonmember will be able to
continue to rant and rave as much as they wish, but it will not be on
a board in which NBPC sponsorship can be inferred.

I don't know why everyone voted as they did at the meeting.  I have
advanced some of the reasons why I voted as I did and I do not
retreat from them.  Without going into detail, suffice it to say that
neither your views nor Matt's have persuaded me to the contrary.

Some other members argued that in order to empower people to better
manage the information they receive, the groups should be parsed
out.  I generally share this view.  But some thinkers on this
listserv claim that people shouldn't have this choice.  They argue
that there should be one listserv only for nonmembers' rantings as
well as official business.  The members' votes from March 31 offers
people a choice to join any one or all of these new forums.  Let
people make this decision!  Who are we to make this choice for them?
Perhaps they think that other choices of theirs should be taken away
as well!

For the record, some other members have said that the debate on this
board was 'intimidating' to potential new members and that's why they
voted as they did at the 3/31 meeting.  Personally I do not agree
with that as a basis.  The campaign needs advocates who will be
fierce, not a bunch of Milquetoasts when faced with a view that
conflicts with their own, will get scared.  That's not the kind of
advocate that the people of New Brunswick need at city council
meetings or in polling places.

The good name of NBPC was being diluted and tarnished under unfair
circumstances.  I believe that an organization has a right to defend
itself and that is why I voted as I did.  The decision has now been
made and because the Steering Committee follows the decisions of the
general meetings and does not disobey them, the decision will be
implemented forthwith.



--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
wrote:
 > Kris and whoever else may be interested,
 >
 > I explained to Matt the decision that took place at the last PC
meeting to
 > turn the list serve into an exclusive list. This was done for the
expressed
 > purpose to expel block on lock from the discussion but it also
expels anyone
 > who is not a member of the campaign. Non-members currently make up
the
 > overwhelming majority of New Brunswick residents. Flavio made and
repeated
 > on this list the argument that proceeds from a principle of
intellectual
 > property rights and trademark rights:
 >
 > " In order to safeguard the good name of
 > the New Brunswick People's Campaign from dilution and/or tarnishing,
 > in accordance with principles of intellectual property and trademark
 > law, the membership, with two members dissenting, and one
abstaining..."
 >
 > In my opinion this decision makes a mockery of any claims to
democracy.
 > Flavio is without doubt a brilliant legal mind, but he has not yet
learned
 > to view bourgeois law critically though he has clearly mastered it.
The
 > notion of "Intellectual property rights" while resting on sound
footing in
 > terms of bourgeois law are diametrically opposed to even basic
principles of
 > humanism and much more people's or revolutionary democracy. Human
advance be
 > it technological, productive, or intellectual is the collective
heritage and
 > birthright of every single person on the planet. No one person
creates
 > anything. For instance Jimi Hendrix's music is not possible on the
one hand
 > without the blues and on the other without an electeric guitar,
which is not
 > possible without work songs on the one hand and electricity on the
other.
 > All of this requires a certain level of development. The People's
Campaign
 > should be taking strong positions against the whole idea of
intellectual
 > property rights and certainly not employing it as a trump over open
debate.
 > Once again issues of ownership, control, and a proprietary attitude
are at
 > the fore. This is the opposite attitude needed if the Campaign is
going to
 > be a vehicle for working people in New Brunswick.
 >
 > In my opinion the decision at the last meeting was shameful. There
is a
 > principle at hand here but it has nothing to do with property
rights...
 > or maybe it does...
 >
 > Keith
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1327
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 13:13:41
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

Joe- Why not let Joe Mosley speak for himself.



----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 09:35:33 -0400

tracy ford is also a liar and a con. he's being puppeteered by bright, NB
bush. ever since bright got position on housing authority, we see his true
supporters coming out ie. el curtis and tracy and nbpc, yes nbpc because
silence and no opposition and no public self-criticism for being the
ultimate reason this was able to happen means support. i can only hope that
the next office you out of towners produce doesn't result in all this harm
to THE NEW BRUNSWICK COMMUNITY that you falsely claim to represent.

but i thought this heading is to discuss a meeting with mosley to discuss
the expulsion of nbpc from the community. i mean the expulsion of slogan
"community control" from the nbpc. ok i really mean to discuss the infinite
expulsion of six and counting of the most dedicated people to opposing the
rise of fascism here on the streets of NB from the nbpc. why do you think
mosley doesn't understand? because he sees that we are working harder and
more effectively than an organization that at least triples SWORD with
membership and resources. and he just can't understand that an organization
can claim to represent the people and simotaneously fight against the
communists and revolutionaries and NB youth, only to embrace the peoples'
enemies-REPUBLICANS ARE THE PEOPLES ENEMIES. he is also probably very
confused as to why nbpc would work without the community plan for a
community center. though mosley would never step on anybody's toes, this is
no less than a smack in the face for his developed plans for a community
center. can nbpc post your plans, all i know is $15,000 by september and
debrah's money. xavier do you think amiri/myself is wrong to call you an
economist? (that is word of mouth, if amiri didn't say it i am)

joe
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1328
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 14:09:32
Subject:Fwd: Re: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Thomas Murphy" <thomasbmurphy67@...>
To: vivaohio@...
Subject: Re: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:30:57 -0400

this is an another related story....

Area near tavern may be redeveloped

            Published in the Home News Tribune 4/05/01

            By SHARON WATERS
            STAFF WRITER

            NEW BRUNSWICK: The potential for redevelopment of the area by 
the Court Tavern on Church Street moved forward yesterday after
            a developer made an offer to buy two nearby parking lots, and 
the City Council took the first step in amending its redevelopment plan for
            the area.

            Bob Albert Jr., who owns the Court Tavern, and Mark Ellenberg, 
who owns three properties on Spring Street, expressed concern at last
            night's council meeting about future plans for the area. Albert, 
fearing he may be forced to sell, has said he will not restart his tavern
            business elsewhere.

            Omar Boraie's attorney, Thomas Kelso, submitted an offer Tuesday 
to the New Brunswick Parking Authority to buy the Paterson Street
            and Church Street parking lots for $825,000, said the 
authority's attorney, John A. Hoffman with Wilentz, Goldman and Spitzer in
            Woodbridge.

            Boraie's offer includes a condition that if he did not build on 
the land within two years, the Parking Authority could buy it back for the
            selling price, plus 7 percent interest, Hoffman said. Boraie 
also promised to provide about 100 spaces of public parking for five years 
on
            the site, said Hoffman.

            Boraie wants to construct an office building with a parking deck 
below and has been negotiating with the Parking Authority for two
            months, said the authority's Executive Director Mitch Karon.

            Omar Boraie, reached at his office yesterday, declined to 
comment on his plans for the properties. His son, Sam, declined to comment
            Tuesday and referred all questions to the father.

            The Parking Authority insisted it would only sell Boraie the 
lots if he would construct an office building, said Hoffman, noting the 
authority
            would not want to sell so Boraie could operate parking lots.

            The authority would not close on the sale until Boraie had 
received a redeveloper designation from the New Brunswick Housing &
            Redevelopment Authority and had applied for a building permit, 
said Hoffman.

            Boraie's offer will be presented to the Parking Authority board 
of commissioners at its April 17 meeting, Hoffman said. He considered the
            $825,000 offer "in the bounds of reasonableness," noting the two 
lots would be sold in "as-is condition," meaning Boraie would assume all
            subsurface and environmental risks.

            Boraie's first offer, for $704,000 on March 1, was rejected, 
Hoffman said. The two parking lots were appraised at $848,000, not
            $868,000 as previously reported by Karon, Hoffman said.

            Hoffman said he did not know what Boraie wants to build.

            "I saw a plan, but I don't know what it covers," said Hoffman, 
adding he did not know how high Boraie wished to build.

            Any new construction on the site would have to be less than 96 
feet or eight stories if an amendment to the city's downtown redevelopment
            plan is approved in two weeks.

            Last night, the City Council introduced the amendment, which 
also added the Paterson Street parking deck and three properties on Spring
            Street to the redevelopment plan. The plan amendment is 
significant because it nearly doubles a redevelopment sub-area that 
previously
            included just the Court Tavern and Court Street parking lot, 
potentially making the plot more attractive to a redeveloper.

            A public hearing on the amendment to the plan and final vote are 
scheduled for the next council meeting on April 18.

            Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@...

            from the Home News Tribune

            Published: April 5, 2001

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>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>To: murphman6000@..., waynecosney@..., 
>traceyX@..., Spiago@..., star@..., gocreepgo@..., 
>Rhinoqueen420@..., deem.ohm@..., mike@..., 
>mike@..., imogene615@..., mwkrunner@..., 
>QueenMP1@..., GargoyleCornhole@..., l.hyslop@..., 
>celtgirl1114@..., kvt@..., doublej66@..., 
>jillybee@..., JMcmanemin@..., sackblabbath@..., 
>HyprPunk24@..., h.luvuna@..., GCarmen@..., 
>gkar@..., galaxygirl420@..., eshaneson@..., 
>eric@..., edwordking@..., deanrocks@..., 
>cgascoyne@..., blkshep@..., lumous1@..., 
>bklein9104@..., anya243@..., ADmunin@..., 
>pensandgifts@..., almuzer@...
>Subject: Re: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
>Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 16:39:17
>
>
>Just a quick note on this impending disaster for local culture in NB:
>
>
>One of the very first cultural experiences that I had when I first moved to
>New Brunswick (following a year long motorcycle journey across the country)
>was a deeply moving memorial service at the Court Tavern for some guy
>everyone was grieving for named Mark Bradley.  They talked about him like 
>he
>was the local Bob Dylan.  I can still clearly remember the feeling I had
>when I walked into the Court for the first time & one of his close friends
>whose name I never got was sitting in an old barber's chair sobbing and
>asking the wind "Why couldn't it have been me?..."  For the next few years 
>I
>spent getting active in community organizing & setting up fund raising
>events (remember 77 Central?!), I met various and sundry artists & 
>musicians
>who knew and would talk about Mark the mistrel, the songwriter, the cook,
>the friend--and when the CD came out, I finally had a glimpse of what
>everyone was missing so deeply.  There was a spirit there, and a
>consiousness...an awareness and a song.  Mark Bradley, though I never met
>him, made my life in NB have a meaning and purpose that it might never have
>had otherwise.  I still shed a tear when I think about him like this, & I
>never even met him.  Maybe he represents to me a world that could be and
>should be but isn't and sometimes that world seems to come within reach,
>while other times it seems to be slipping away into some primordial
>mist........  Now, the thought of the Court Tavern--where this all began 
>for
>me, and probably so many other in their own way--the thought of it going
>under the recking ball so that those god-damned lifeless corporate zombies
>can put up another one of their sickening institutional pink & mauve
>frankenstein buildings makes me numb!  We see it all around us in NB.
>Everytime I go back to visit, I see another block that's been closed off or
>bulldozed & another lego development is going up...& I know that there used
>to be a community there with real people who were living real lives, & I
>wonder where they go.  So now maybe it's coming home for me and many of you
>who always had somewhere to go to in NB to see a familiar face.  & my
>question is, what are we going to do about it?  I don't have any easy
>answers, but I would say that people need to start thinking really hard out
>loud about if we want to sit back and watch it all slip into the mist...or
>if we are going to defend one of the last real spaces that we have left!
>
>"They're going to feel the fire, and they'll damn sure feel the heat,
>when the middle of the roaders take the middle of the street!"
>
>             -the late and timeless Mark Bradely
>
>...& in the last words of Eliot Katz's tribute poem to Mark:
>
>               "Down with the Multinationals!"
>
>--Matthew Smith
>
>
>----original message-----
>
>From: Tom Murphy
>Subject: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:17:35 -0400
>
>For everyone who might be interested to know.....
>
>
>http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,376861,00.html
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1329
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 14:12:38
Subject:Fwd: Re: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Thomas Murphy" <thomasbmurphy67@...>
To: vivaohio@...
Subject: Re: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:27:38 -0400


Matt here is today's story. Just so you know there have been three articles 
three days in a row about the Court tavern....

the home news is www.thnt.com

Mayor suggests Court Tavern owner relocate within area

            Published in the Home News Tribune 4/06/01

            By SHARON WATERS
            and CHRIS JORDAN
            STAFF WRITERS

            NEW BRUNSWICK: Court Tavern owner Bob Albert Jr. was urged by 
Mayor James M. Cahill yesterday to consider relocating within
            the area if the Church Street nightclub is displaced by a 
development project.

            Albert said he would be agreeable to a move only if it were to a 
location in the immediate area, but he doubts such a place can be found.

            "That seems to me a very difficult thing to do," Albert said. "I 
don't know where they could put me."

            Cahill told a reporter, "I would encourage any developer, as 
well as Bob Albert, to incorporate the Court Tavern into any redevelopment
            scheme and relocate it within the area," noting the 
redevelopment process includes compensating owners for the value of their 
properties as
            well as helping them relocate.

            When told that Albert originally said he would rather close the 
tavern than relocate it, Cahill said, "That's not the city turning its back 
on
            that type of entertainment. It would be a decision by Mr. 
Albert."

            Albert said that his business would need to be moved to a 
nonresidential downtown area from Albany Street to Livingston Avenue.

            "This is a nonresidential area, and we're not bothering any of 
our neighbors here," said Albert of his current 124 Church St. location. 
"I'll be
            the first to admit that it gets pretty loud down there."

            Developer Omar Boraie has made an offer to buy the Paterson and 
Church streets parking lots from the New Brunswick Parking
            Authority for $825,000. Boraie wants to build an office building 
and parking deck on the site, Parking Authority officials said.

            The City Council is considering amending its downtown 
redevelopment plan to nearly double a redevelopment sub-area near the 
tavern,
            potentially making the plot more attractive to a developer.

            Albert, who rejected a "ludicrous" offer from Boraie for the 
nightclub, fears he will be forced out if a redevelopment project is 
approved on
            the land. When Boraie initially approached Albert about buying 
the club, Boraie suggested that the club could be moved to Somerset
            Street, a location closer to the Rutgers University campus, 
Albert said.

            "For whatever reason this bar never appealed to the college 
kids, and we've never done serious business with the college," Albert said.
            "My main problem with going up on campus is that it's a 
residential area, and there's no way I could do what I'm doing down here 
now."

            The city's rock 'n' roll music fans fear a Court Tavern closing 
would be a sign the city's music scene is waning. They accuse city officials 
of
            not recognizing the importance of the live-music scene, a charge 
Cahill denied.

            Relocating does not have to mean starting over for the tavern, 
said Cahill.

            "It's really an opportunity for the Court Tavern to grow, become 
more profitable and play even a larger role of the rock 'n' roll scene in
            New Brunswick," the mayor said.

            There are a number of sites where the Court Tavern could move 
but Cahill declined to list any, saying his speculation as a city official 
could
            impact acquisition prices for alternative sites.

            "I'm afraid that plans are being made, and I haven't been 
involved in them," Albert said. "That's why the (City Council) meeting on 
the 18th
            (of April) is very important. Wheels are turning, and I'm 
standing here scratching my head. It's nerve racking."

            The preferred development for the area near the Court Tavern 
would be a combination of office and parking with some retail, Cahill said.

            When asked if a project could be built with the Court Tavern 
remaining where it is, Cahill said, "I would imagine a property could be 
built
            in any way. If you carve out something, it could make for a 
strange configuration of a building over there."

            Cahill said the developer and Albert would need to evaluate what 
makes the most sense.

            Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@...

            Chris Jordan: (732) 565-7275. E-mail cjordan@...

            from the Home News Tribune

            Published: April 6, 2001

            Go Back

                                                       Copyright 1997-2001 
INJersey.
                                       Use of this site signifies your 
agreement to the Terms of Service (updated 4/21/00).
                                                         Site design by 
INJersey.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>To: murphman6000@..., waynecosney@..., 
>traceyX@..., Spiago@..., star@..., gocreepgo@..., 
>Rhinoqueen420@..., deem.ohm@..., mike@..., 
>mike@..., imogene615@..., mwkrunner@..., 
>QueenMP1@..., GargoyleCornhole@..., l.hyslop@..., 
>celtgirl1114@..., kvt@..., doublej66@..., 
>jillybee@..., JMcmanemin@..., sackblabbath@..., 
>HyprPunk24@..., h.luvuna@..., GCarmen@..., 
>gkar@..., galaxygirl420@..., eshaneson@..., 
>eric@..., edwordking@..., deanrocks@..., 
>cgascoyne@..., blkshep@..., lumous1@..., 
>bklein9104@..., anya243@..., ADmunin@..., 
>pensandgifts@..., almuzer@...
>Subject: Re: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
>Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 16:39:17
>
>
>Just a quick note on this impending disaster for local culture in NB:
>
>
>One of the very first cultural experiences that I had when I first moved to
>New Brunswick (following a year long motorcycle journey across the country)
>was a deeply moving memorial service at the Court Tavern for some guy
>everyone was grieving for named Mark Bradley.  They talked about him like 
>he
>was the local Bob Dylan.  I can still clearly remember the feeling I had
>when I walked into the Court for the first time & one of his close friends
>whose name I never got was sitting in an old barber's chair sobbing and
>asking the wind "Why couldn't it have been me?..."  For the next few years 
>I
>spent getting active in community organizing & setting up fund raising
>events (remember 77 Central?!), I met various and sundry artists & 
>musicians
>who knew and would talk about Mark the mistrel, the songwriter, the cook,
>the friend--and when the CD came out, I finally had a glimpse of what
>everyone was missing so deeply.  There was a spirit there, and a
>consiousness...an awareness and a song.  Mark Bradley, though I never met
>him, made my life in NB have a meaning and purpose that it might never have
>had otherwise.  I still shed a tear when I think about him like this, & I
>never even met him.  Maybe he represents to me a world that could be and
>should be but isn't and sometimes that world seems to come within reach,
>while other times it seems to be slipping away into some primordial
>mist........  Now, the thought of the Court Tavern--where this all began 
>for
>me, and probably so many other in their own way--the thought of it going
>under the recking ball so that those god-damned lifeless corporate zombies
>can put up another one of their sickening institutional pink & mauve
>frankenstein buildings makes me numb!  We see it all around us in NB.
>Everytime I go back to visit, I see another block that's been closed off or
>bulldozed & another lego development is going up...& I know that there used
>to be a community there with real people who were living real lives, & I
>wonder where they go.  So now maybe it's coming home for me and many of you
>who always had somewhere to go to in NB to see a familiar face.  & my
>question is, what are we going to do about it?  I don't have any easy
>answers, but I would say that people need to start thinking really hard out
>loud about if we want to sit back and watch it all slip into the mist...or
>if we are going to defend one of the last real spaces that we have left!
>
>"They're going to feel the fire, and they'll damn sure feel the heat,
>when the middle of the roaders take the middle of the street!"
>
>             -the late and timeless Mark Bradely
>
>...& in the last words of Eliot Katz's tribute poem to Mark:
>
>               "Down with the Multinationals!"
>
>--Matthew Smith
>
>
>----original message-----
>
>From: Tom Murphy
>Subject: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:17:35 -0400
>
>For everyone who might be interested to know.....
>
>
>http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,376861,00.html
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1330
Sender:hajdukmi@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 14:29:48
Subject:Americans Arrive To Study in Cuba
Message:

Americans Arrive To Study in Cuba
The Associated Press, Wed 4 Apr 2001

HAVANA (AP) ? A U.S. flag was flown and the American anthem was played Wednesday as Cuba welcomed eight young Americans arriving here to study
medicine courtesy of the communist government.

The six women and two men from minority families arrived in Havana late Tuesday. They are the first Americans to attend a free six-year program to
become physicians originally designed for impoverished students in Latin America.

President Fidel Castro offered to extend the free medical training to include up to 500 Americans when he met last May with a delegation from the
Congressional Black Caucus.

``It would be hard for your government to oppose such a program,'' Castro told the U.S. lawmakers at the time. ``It would be a trial for them.
Morally, how could they refuse?''

The U.S. State Department later said it would not oppose the program, saying that it had been American policy to encourage contact between ordinary
Cubans and Americans.

``This is a modest beginning to a revolutionary and visionary idea,'' said the Rev. Lucius Walker, head of the U.S. organization Pastors for Peace,
which regularly brings medicine and other humanitarian aid to the Caribbean island.

``We are confident that you will open your arms and your hearts and receive our children as your own,'' Walker told Cubans attending a small welcoming
 ceremony on Wednesday at the Latin American School of Medicine.

``This is an opportunity for me to study medicine and become a great doctor while learning about the Cuban medical system,'' said Karima Mosi, 22, of
San Diego.

``I understand that the medical school in Cuba is among the best in Latin America and the world, so I have no reservations about my education,'' Mosi
said.

The Americans join more than 4,000 other students from 24 other nations in Latin America, the Caribbean and Africa who now attend classes at the
medical school, which opened two years ago.

When commenting last November on Cuba's proposed program for American medical students, the U.S. State Department noted that it was unclear whether
Americans who receive training in Cuba will be able to meet licensing requirements once they return home.

Many Cuban physicians who emigrate to the United States have had difficulty obtaining permission to practice.

Cuba also proposed sending its own doctors to poor areas of the United States as part of the program, but the State Department said the idea was
rejected.

Cuba has a surplus of doctors and dispatches thousands abroad each year to work in other developing countries.

Shortages of basic medicines have been acute in recent years in Cuba, particularly in the decade since the collapse of the Soviet Union ? once the
island's principal trading partner.

Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1331
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 15:16:46
Subject:Ten Reasons for Reparations
Message:

Ten Reasons for Reparations
Earl Ofari Hutchinson, AlterNet
April 3, 2001
Viewed on April 6, 2001

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Conservative muckraker David Horowitz has been verbally mugged for peddling 
an ad to college newspapers giving ten reasons why reparations are racist. 
But the name callers have done little more than canonize Horowitz as a 
martyr for truth and free speech. Even worse, they've failed miserably to 
tell why reparations merit a serious look. There are ten compelling reasons 
it does.


1. The U.S. government, not long dead Southern planters, bears the blame for 
slavery. It encoded it in the Constitution in article one. This designated a 
black slave as three-fifths of a person for tax and political representation 
purposes. It protected and nourished it in article four by mandating that 
all escaped slaves found anywhere in the nation be returned to their 
masters. In the Dred Scott decision in 1857, the U.S. Supreme Court 
reaffirmed that slaves remained slaves no matter where they were taken in 
the United States.


2. Major institutions profited from slavery. In October, the California 
state legislature passed a bill requiring insurance companies to disclose 
whether they wrote policies insuring slaves. This was recognition that 
insurance companies made profits insuring slaves as property. The insurance 
industry was not the only culprit. Banks, shipping companies, and investment 
houses also made enormous profits from financing slave purchases, 
investments in Southern land and products, and the transport, and sale of 
slaves.


3. Slavery ended in 1865 but the legacy of slavery still remains. A report 
by the National Conference for Community and Justice, a Washington D.C. 
public policy group in 2000, found that blacks are still the major economic 
and social victims of racial discrimination. They are far more likely to 
live in underserved segregated neighborhoods, be refused business and 
housing loans, be denied promotions in corporations and attend cash starved, 
failing public schools than whites.


4. There's a direct cost for slavery's legacy. Former Federal Reserve Board 
Chairman Andrew Brimmer estimates that discrimination costs blacks $10 
billion yearly through the black-white wage gap, denial of capital access, 
inadequate public services, and reduced social security and other government 
benefits. This has been called the "black tax."


5. The U.S. government has shelled out billions since the 1960s to pay for 
resettlement, job training, education, and health programs for refugees 
fleeing Communist repression. Politicians and the majority of the public 
enthusiastically backed these payments as the morally and legally right 
thing to do.


6. The reparations issue will not fuel more hatred of blacks. Most Americans 
admit that slavery was a morally monstrous system that wreaked severe pain 
and suffering on America. City councils in Chicago, Dallas, Oakland, and Los 
Angeles, and other cities in the past year have passed resolutions 
supporting a federal commission to study reparations. Also, there was no 
national outcry when the U.S. government made special indemnity payments, 
provided land and social service benefits to Japanese-Americans interned 
during World War II, Native-Americans for the theft of lands and mineral 
rights, and Philippine veterans who fought with the American army during 
World War II.


7. No legislation has been proposed that mandates taxpayers pay billions to 
blacks. A bill by Michigan Democrat John Conyers that has languished in 
Congress since 1993 simply establishes a commission to study the effects of 
slavery. The estimated cost is less than $10 million.


8. There is a precedent for paying blacks for past legal and moral wrongs. 
In 1997 Clinton apologized and the U.S. government paid $10 million to the 
black survivors and family members victimized by the syphilis experiment 
conducted in the 1930's by the U.S. Public Health Service. In 1994, the 
Florida legislature agreed to make payments to the survivors and relatives 
of those who lost their lives and property when a white mob destroyed the 
all-black town of Rosewood in 1923. The carnage was tacitly condoned by 
public officials and law enforcement officers. The Oklahoma state 
legislature is currently considering reparations payments to the survivors 
and their descendants of the destruction of black neighborhoods in Tulsa by 
white mobs in 1921.


9. Oprah Winfrey, Bill Cosby, Michael Jordan and other mega-rich blacks will 
not receive a penny in reparations. Any tax money to redress black suffering 
should go into a fund to bolster funding for AIDS/HIV education and 
prevention, underfinanced inner-city public schools, to expand job skills 
and training, drug and alcohol counseling and rehabilitation, computer 
access and literacy training programs, and to improve public services for 
the estimated one in four blacks still trapped in poverty.


10. Thirty years ago a writer passionately argued that the U.S. government 
has kept the "black ghettos in a colonial status since Reconstruction" and 
refused to meet the "most basic political and economic demands of the black 
movement." That writer was David Horowitz. He made the argument in his book, 
Empire and Revolution, a blistering indictment of the U.S. government. 
Radical hyperbole notwithstanding, Horowitz recognized then that America 
owed a debt to black America for past and present sins. It still does.


Earl Ofari Hutchinson is the President of The National Alliance for Positive 
Action and the author of The Disappearance of Black Leadership (Middle 
Passage Press).



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1332
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 15:28:19
Subject:More argument ...
Message:

I'll throw in some thoughts ...

Well, I would tend to agree with Flavio on the point that, as a 
matter of plain fact, no censorship is taking place.  Two new egroups 
are being created (only one of them is really a matter of 
controversy).  This group is not being censored.  Nobody is being 
forced to abandon this group in favor of exclusively discussing 
matters within the soon-to-be official discussion group for the 
Campaign.  

If it proves impossible to rename this group, people can easily 
continue their discussions within a similarly named group that could 
be created in a matter of five minutes.  In fact, you could probably, 
though minimal effort, crosspost the entire backlog of messages from 
this group to another group.  Again, as Charlotte pointed out, 
electronic discussion groups are a unique -- and uniquely flexible -- 
medium that don't bear direct resemblance to either print media or 
face-to-face discussion.  (That's in part the problem with 
discussing 'censorship' here -- censorship is relative to the medium 
you're discussing.  It is no more absolute and transcendent of 
context than 'free speech).

Otherwise:  There are a number of subtexts at work here.  It may be 
better to state them in more precise terms than 'censorship', which 
is quickly turning into something of a catch-all phrase.  To address 
some of those subtexts rather quickly:

1)  Part of this seems to be an argument, really, about how much the 
People's Campaign ought to expand and professionalize as an 
organization.  Ought there to be a certain division of labor, with 
specific individuals responsible for coordinating specific tasks?  
Ought there to be a variety of procedural mechanisms and regulations?
The fact is that as a political organization grows, as it accepts new 
members and becomes more diverse in its base, it becomes more laden 
with procedures, officers/offices, and so forth.  This is necessary 
to ensure both fairness and efficiency.  Obviously, this seems 
distasteful to some people: the feeling of solidarity is an appealing 
aspect of community organizing, and to some people's minds, these 
developments might appear as antagonistic to solidarity.  To divide 
up the lists in this fashion might seem like a move away from an 
ethic of solidarity and towards an ethic of professional political 
organizing.  I personally am skeptical whether these are entirely 
mutually exclusive; I think that would be a rather dogmatic 
conclusion to reach.

2) Some people have suggested, it seems, that this is an attempt to 
censor the Block on Lock individuals.  If the concern that their 
messages were jamming up the list _inspired_ a discussion about the 
nature of the list, it still isn't reasonable to argue that this is a 
mere attempt to censor them.  The inspiration or origin of something 
and its actual meaning and importance are two _very_ different 
issues.  A Marxist would call equating the origin of something with 
its substance 'undialectical'.  To argue otherwise, I think, would be 
in essence to say that words are never anything more than mere 
bludgeons.  In that case, why bother arguing at all?

FURTHERMORE, all of these concerns were being voiced long ago.  
First, there has been the longstanding concern of getting schedules 
and announcements to people who don't want to be on the main 
discussion list.  Second, there's been concerns about individuals 
being simply obnoxious, disruptive, or posing threats from anonymous 
email accounts in the past.  (Recall, eg, the individual who claimed 
to be some kind of Black Nationalist way back over the summer).  
Furthermore, for awhile, there was no discussion on the list 
whatsoever, really.  So in part, the problem is how to _stimulate_ 
discussion on the lists.  That in itself could've just as easily been 
the force of inspiration for the creation of the new lists.

So, again, you see that the argument about this being an attack on 
the Smiths et al is sort of untenable.

Yours,

Jeremy







































   







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1333
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 17:03:38
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Egroups
Message:

exhibit A of civil-libertarian "constitutionalism" serving imperial ends to 
e.g. defend Klan marches and effectively censor communists.

more democracy, not less!


>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Egroups
>Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:02:25 -0000
>
>Matt:
>
>I think you may have been misinformed about the vote regarding
>egroups taken on Saturday.  In order to safeguard the good name of
>the New Brunswick People's Campaign from dilution and/or tarnishing,
>in accordance with principles of intellectual property and trademark
>law, the membership, with two members dissenting, and one abstaining,
>decided that:
>
>1. there shall be one moderated listserv/Yahoogroup, in which a
>moderator screens all messages.  That list will be used for official
>NBPC communications, e.g. meeting announcements, minutes, newsletters
>etc.  Any person can read that list but only messages approved by the
>moderator will be posted.
>
>2. there shall be one members' listserv/Yahoogroup, unmoderated.
>Only NBPC members can post to that list but anyone can read the list.
>
>3. there shall be one 'open' and unmoderated list/Yahoogroup in
>substantially the form as this group where any person can post or
>read the messages.  This list will not be 'sponsored' by NBPC in any
>way and presumably, it will contain a disclaimer so stating.
>
>The precise logistical details, including the name(s) of these lists
>and what will become of the present list, is still under
>consideration.  This is not at all like the WBAI situation.  Ample
>forums for debate and discussion will remain.  However, by parsing
>this group into different forums, NBPC members and interested parties
>who choose to communicate by email will be able to better manage what
>kind of information they want to receive.  Likewise, onlookers will
>be able to make a clear distinction between what is official, what is
>members' debate, and what is other discussion concerning NBPC.
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1334
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 17:30:36
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

guideline #1 for pc membership:

endorse republicans against working class community activists.


>From: "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
>Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 21:11:36
>
>Matthew,
>
>I respect the point you are trying to make with this post. However, I feel
>strongly that you can't make such sharp judgement on the decisions made at
>Campaign general meetings (in this case re: participation in the egroups)
>when you were entirely absent from the debate. I don't know who gave you a
>report of what went down, but I disagree with your characterization of what
>happened.
>
>to clarify, the decision was to change the way that the egroup operates so
>that only members of the Campaign can make posts. as you know, the
>guidelines for becoming a member of the Campaign are extremely broad. This
>decision was discussed at length, and stemmed from many people's discontent
>with how the egroup has degenerated. I have heard from many people that 
>they
>don't feel comfortable with the tone of the discussions a lot of the time,
>and they don't feel comfortable to make posts for fear of being attacked.
>
>Regardless of your feelings on this (and we should talk about this), the
>vote was taken based on substantial debate on the matter. Frankly, I dont
>think that the decision was ideal (I myself led the proposal). but it is an
>immediate attempt to fix a problem that was actually inhibiting
>communication for the majority. this policy is not set in stone. i really
>want to hear what other people think about the state of this egroup.
>
>Anyway, I think you need to participate yourself matt in these meetings and
>discussions so that you know exactly where people are at. I'm afraid that
>there's a lot of miscommunication and misinformation being shared. i'm not
>sure where the "intellectual property" argument comes from. I also didn't
>know that you were "concerned" about BoL's expulsion. Am I right to assume
>that you felt that way when it happened back in May (i think?)?
>
>also in unity,
>Kristina
>
>
> >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
> >Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 17:34:06
> >
> >As I've just joined the Coalition for Justice egroup list, I am unclear 
>as
> >to why this exchange is taking place here as opposed to the NB Peoples'
> >Campaign group list...nothing against airing out views widely, but it 
>would
> >seem that PC members would benefit from the dialogue, & that CFJ members
> >are
> >likely unaware of the particulars.
> >
> >(Otherwise-- I think that it would be very benificial for this proposed
> >meeting with Joe Mosely to take place...as much as I disagree with Joe &
> >BOL/SWORD's portrayal of Curtis Warren as an right-wing, opportunistic,
> >imperialist, infiltrator (sigh), my concerns about their expulsion have
> >been
> >shifted into alarm when I learned that there was a vote to remove them 
>from
> >the Peoples Campaign egroup list...among the reasons sited was that this
> >domain is the "intellectual property" of the NBPC...if ever I've heard a
> >violation of basic democratic principles (!) this purely individualistic 
>&
> >bourgeois concept is it.  Unfortunately, I was not at the meeting to 
>voice
> >my objections, but I feel it's a dangerous road to travel down when 
>banning
> >people becomes a substitute for struggling over the ideas in a coherent 
>and
> >scientific way...remember WBAI?!
> >
> >In the Struggle for Unity--Matthew Smith
> >
> >
> >----Original Message Follows----
> >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
> >Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:30:39 -0400
> >
> >name the time mosley. others should be made aware also, but the 
>discussion
> >should stay focused on the expulsion of myself, cliff and others from the
> >nbpc which was/is lead by xavier. i will accept no rules that embrace the
> >peoples' enemies.
> >
> >republicans in the garbage can!
> >
> >joe
> >
> >
> >  >From: "Joseph Mosley" <joemosley1@...>
> >  >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> >  >To: "Coalitionfor Justice" <coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com>,	"Tom
> >  >DeGloma" <tdegloma@...>,	<Xavier.hansen@...>
> >  >Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
> >  >Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:08:44 -0400
> >  >
> >  >I believe that you are on the right track Joe, but never forget that 
>at
> >  >times we can be our own worst enemy. We may disagree on procedural
> >matters
> >  >but our goals must be clearly defined and supported by all.
> >  >
> >  >At last week's meeting of the Peoples Campaign both Tom Degloma and
> >Xavier
> >  >Hansen said that you and your brother are welcome to return if you 
>agree
> >to
> >  >abide by the rules. They say that you know what these rules are. I did
> >not
> >  >ask because I did not want to hear their version, neither do I want to
> >hear
> >  >your version. I want to be as neutral as possible. What I would like 
>to
> >  >know is , are these rules acceptable to you and Cliff? If they are 
>not,
> >  >could the five of us sit down somewhere and discuss the issue or 
>issues?
> >  >
> >  >Feel free to call on me any time.
> >  >
> >  >Peace,
> >  >
> >  >JoeMosley
> >  >745-2602
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >----- Original Message -----
> >  >From: can_bush@...
> >  >Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:39 PM
> >  >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> >  >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >in the form of an advanced political/ideological position the CFJ must
> >  >advance on the present list of demands to call for reparations and
> >  >self-determination for the black nation. this struggle against racist
> >  >profiling will never put the CFJ on the offensive without these two
> >  >demands being main slogans and organizing tools. how many people are
> >  >going to march to reopen the investigation into Earl Faison's death?
> >  >not that it shouldn't be a demand, but the coalition must take the
> >  >particular to the general and then lead to other particulars in order
> >  >to be embraced by the majority of people.
> >  >
> >  >for example the state police shoot up van of black youth (particular -
> >  >so people march against racist profiling). state police shoot up black
> >  >youth because they are run by white supremacists, so is every
> >  >institution in the nation (general - so people march against every
> >  >white supremacist institution, as the CFJ can present it). rutgers
> >  >university is run by white supremacists, president francis lawrence
> >  >stated that "black people are genetically inferior to whites...".
> >  >(different particular - so now rutgers students can march against
> >  >racial profiling in a more general fashion, they can demand the
> >  >impeachment of university president facsist lawrence and the
> >  >conviction of troopers hogan and kenna. but only if the general is
> >  >properly understood, that white supremacy runs this nation will the
> >  >united front against racist profiling develop.
> >  >
> >  >the CFJ would be limiting itself if it just focused on the narrow
> >  >particulars, which it is presently doing.   therefor it must be
> >  >embraced by the list of demands, reparations and self-determination
> >  >for the black nation in order for us to build the broadest base of
> >  >support possible for this march and then back to the movement in
> >  >general. this is the way to transform the coalition to an offensive,
> >  >first in our attitudes/consciousness then in our plans.
> >  >
> >  >this transformation, although altering to the original conception of
> >  >the coalition must not be pushed in a manner of confrontation, though
> >  >it must be pushed. it is a suggestion in order strengthen the
> >  >coalition, therefor it must be presented as such. so if any person or
> >  >group is against the proposal, they are actually against the
> >  >strenthening of the coalition.
> >  >
> >  >although this is choppy, i had just wrote it as i understood w/no
> >  >preperation, it is an important arguement. criticism, suggestions,
> >  >comments are needed.
> >  >
> >  >Reparations and Self-Determination for the Black Nation
> >  >
> >  >joe
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE
> >download
> >  >of MSN Explorer at <a
> >  >href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
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> >
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1335
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 17:37:48
Subject:Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
Message:

You fight against racism because it is a limitation of democracy and 
progress.  Period.  You fight against anything that is an objective 
limit to democracy.

I agree that blacks are oppressed in America.  Do they comprise a 
nation, though, in the strict sense of the word?  I don't think so.  

We have to broaden this conception of nation, anyway.  You cannot 
base a nation on color difference or on religious difference without 
falling into totalitarianism.  In the United States, this was the 
initial mistake that whites made, and one could make the argument 
that it almost destroyed the country.  In fact, the extent to which 
they moved to make blacks a part of the United States democracy was 
the extent to which white actually helped save their own country.

I regard any split along color, ethnic, or religious lines to be 
essentially pre-modern.  It has no place in modern democracy.  
Sorry.  That's the way it is.  If your idea of a nation, and what you 
fight for, is not going to be 100% secular and universal, then you're 
just not really progressive.

Are you an internationalist?  I hope you are if you're a Marxist.  
Then why wage your struggle in anything smaller than the existing 
nation state?  Don't you become an advocate of balkanization if you 
want to separate one ethnic group from another within a country, or 
am I misunderstanding your position?

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> why even demand that verneiro be removed? why fight racist 
profiling at all, 
> and not work to advance upon the current positions being put 
forward?
> 
> the question of "community control" (if that is still the campaign 
slogan?) 
> is a question of self-determination. that is, that the community 
would 
> determine their relationship to housing, childcare, education, 
police, &tc. 
> by democratically controlling these institutions. self-
determination is a 
> democratic demand and as DuBios stated - either america will admit 
black 
> people on the basis of democracy, or america will cease to exist.
> 
> do you disagree that there is an oppressed black nation in america?
> 
> joe
> 
> 
> >From: jmluceno@e...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> >
> >Joe,
> >
> >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not 
convinced
> >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not 
heard
> >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I can
> >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
> >
> >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement 
about
> >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came 
up, I
> >would be against both of those lines.
> >
> >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot condone
> >national self-determination, especially not for the "black 
nation."  I
> >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-determination
> >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the 
issue.
> >
> >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or the
> >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have never had
> >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it belongs 
in a
> >press statement on police brutality, something we are against in 
both
> >theory and practice?
> >
> >Jim
> >
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> 
wrote:
> > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > >
> > > >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
> > > >				Press Secretary
> > > >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick, NJ 08903
> > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S OUSTER
> > > >
> > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
> >Campaign,
> > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and their
> > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all 
nationalities
> >and
> > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
> > > >
> > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly welcomes
> > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey State
> >Senate
> > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice Peter
> > > >Verniero.
> > > >
> > > >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color, commits 
a
> >hate
> > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and severe
> > > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who 
turn a
> > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > >
> > > >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent with
> > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary 
Committee
> > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that 
Justice
> > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the state
> >police
> > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful practice.
> > > >
> > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls upon the
> > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for 
Justice
> > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of 
senators
> >from
> > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > >
> > > >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been revealed
> > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's 
hearings,
> >the
> > > >need for community control over police is now more acute than 
ever.
> > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes that
> > > >community control, including democratically elected civilian 
police
> > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate crimes 
of
> > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > > >
> > > >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is already
> > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if they are
> >good
> > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > >
> > > >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 732/514-0610
> > > >
> > > >-30-
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > 
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1336
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 17:42:33
Subject:Re: [nbpc] TAKE BACK THE NIGHT!
Message:

great work charlotte!

re: "...protest against gender[?] violence and celebration of women's 
power...", women are a "sex", no?

"freedom & equality for the oppressed sex"--Lenin

self-determination & reparations for women!

cliff


>From: "Charlotte L. Kates" <ckates@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <w_d_c@yahoogroups.com>, <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>, 
><njfo@yahoogroups.com>, <ru_ignite@yahoogroups.com>, 
><starc-rutgers@yahoogroups.com>, <caellian@...>
>Subject: [nbpc] TAKE BACK THE NIGHT!
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 00:25:46 -0400
>
>Thursday, April 12, at 7 PM....TAKE BACK THE NIGHT!
>
>The annual protest against gender violence and celebration of women's power
>is returning to Rutgers next week! Women gather at Voorhees at 7 PM for
>speakers and performances, followed by the famous march down George Street,
>College Avenue, Hamilton, and Mine Street to Brower Commons. Women and men
>will meet at Brower at 10 PM for speakers and open mic!
>
>We are having one more planning meeting--this coming Monday, at 9:30 PM, in
>the Women's Center at the DCC--come if you're interested! In addition,
>T-shirts will be sold at all dining halls next week, as well as at the 
>event
>itself. They are $10 and work to support TBTN.
>
>This event is *always* important and memorable--hope to see everyone there!
>
>-charlotte
>
>
>Charlotte L. Kates****ckates@...****clkates@...
>              http://www.offlines.org/-Freedom from Scientology
>  http://members.nbci.com/justinusa/-JUSTIN: Justice International
>     Practice organized resistance and conscious acts of solidarity!
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1337
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 17:55:04
Subject:Re: [nbpc] corzine and the DLC
Message:

the Democratic Leadership Council was actually built by sold-out radicals 
(Clinton & assassinated Sec. of Commerce Ron Brown)to move the Democratic 
Party away from the threat of Jesse Jackson's 80's presidential bids, toward 
Reagan republican "trickle-down-ism".




>From: "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@egroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] corzine and the DLC
>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:17:09
>
>I thought people may be interested in reading Corzine's latest position on
>the DLC and the Democratic party in general...
>
>The Nation -
>COMMENT | April 16, 2001
>
>A Time To Be Bold
>by JON CORZINE
>
>In recent months, as a newly elected senator, I have had to decide whether
>to join the Democratic Leadership Council. I have chosen not to because
>while I shared its founding purpose, which was to frame a successful
>response to President Reagan's efforts to portray Democrats as the party of
>"tax and spend," social engineering and failed personal responsibility, I
>believe that purpose has been largely accomplished.
>
>Today, I believe that it is vital for Democrats to stand up for a sharply
>defined progressive agenda--one that is committed to fighting for practical
>and progressive policies for working families and America's middle
>class--even when that means challenging powerful interests and the status
>quo. I am absolutely convinced that, standing on the foundation of fiscal
>stability that Democrats have built and to which the DLC contributed, we 
>now
>have to fight for our convictions. If we begin to negotiate from the 
>middle,
>the end result inevitably takes us to the right of where I believe our
>nation should be.
>
>Nothing is more relevant to this point than today's debate over the Bush 
>tax
>cut proposal. Democrats must remain firmly opposed to this budget-busting
>plan, which provides disproportionate benefits for the richest 1 percent of
>our population. It is relevant and essential to our argument that this tax
>cut is not only unfocused and poorly timed but also unfair. In fact, if we
>yield on fairness before the debate begins, we forfeit our fundamental
>ground. That is one reason I have proposed a tax cut that gives an 
>immediate
>break to everyone equally and is targeted toward working families.
>
>Moreover, the DLC has not convinced me that we should turn away from
>advocating an activist government--one that, for example, sees healthcare 
>as
>a basic right for all Americans. And while compromise is an acceptable end,
>too much of it too soon has led to a paralysis on fundamental concerns such
>as healthcare, gun safety, the environment and educational opportunity.
>
>The critical point to be made by progressives in our national debate is
>this: While there are programs that have failed and should be reformed or
>eliminated, proactive government has often succeeded. An activist 
>government
>was a driving force in the prosperity of the 1990s, as well as in providing
>our historic safety net, including Social Security, Medicare and Head 
>Start.
>An activist government invested in the development of the Internet and the
>space program and spurred today's technological revolution. It was
>government investment that built our highways, air transit system and much
>of our communications network. And the list goes on. Without progressive
>leadership, would segregation have been outlawed? Would women have achieved
>as much access as they now have to equal rights? The pressure for
>advancement came from grassroots progressives. That said, reform and
>progress required our government to respond and lead. We're still far from
>the ideal, as racial profiling and unequal incomes for women and minorities
>attest. There are no African-American or Latino senators, but at least 
>there
>are thirteen women senators--surely not enough, but more than there have
>ever been before. The lesson of history is clear: Equal rights for all
>depend on public action and so do equal pay, worker safety and retirement
>security. The barriers to opportunity for all don't just fall on their own.
>
>Today, the progressive agenda must address the great unfinished
>challenges--for women, for middle-class families, for minorities and the
>poor. It's a hopeful agenda rooted in ideas and our ideals. As I put it in
>my Senate campaign, "Everyone ought to have the same access to the American
>promise I've had." America must be a society of equal opportunity and equal
>protection before the law. So I believe the progressive agenda of our party
>is more important than ever. And the principle that should guide us is
>clear: While we can't achieve equal outcomes, we can and must assure equal
>opportunity.
>
>We also have to articulate the truth that advancing social and economic
>justice advances everyone's prosperity. We need to challenge the special
>interests that would limit the rights of labor and the opportunities of
>women and minorities, because we need all the talents of all our people to
>achieve maximum productivity and growth. We need to challenge the health
>insurance industry and finally win the battle for universal access to
>healthcare, because it is morally right and economically rational. Just
>because conservatives have demonized the term "universal healthcare" we
>should not walk away from that battle for the sake of a calculated centrism
>that splits the difference between right and wrong.
>
>When I was a candidate, the polls said that the majority of New Jersey
>voters disagreed with my opposition to the death penalty. I'm grateful the
>voters respected that I said what I believed even when it wasn't popular. 
>As
>progressives, we must be ready to do that. Most of the progressive
>agenda--healthcare, the environment, gun safety, a progressive tax policy--
>reflects the values and the ideals of the majority of our people. They will
>vote for our agenda if we present it in practical terms and fight for it.
>
>So while I respect the contribution of the DLC and while I respect its
>leaders, I'm not ready to join. The answer to "compassionate conservatism"
>isn't timid progressivism. It's a real commitment to equal opportunity, to
>fiscal responsibility and a fair society. We can and must be a party with
>the courage to stand tall for our beliefs because that's how we will be 
>able
>to win as the party of the people.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1338
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 18:14:33
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
Message:

julie-

produce our "slanderous accusation" against curtis.

the remarks of him co-operating with the j&j & their political machine came 
from curtis' mouth, not ours.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 19:41:36
>
>
>
>
>From: Julie Poulos
>To: vivaohio@...
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:12:32 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Matthew,
>I agree wholeheartedly that intellectual debate in the spirit of unity
>should be encouraged and never stifled. I think that you are looking
>at this situation outside of the realistic context in which it exists.
>First, let me say, that I believe that frequently, arguments of words
>can only go so far, and that often, there comes a point where
>individual interpretations give rise to different viewpoints,
>viewpoints that cannot necessarily be proven �scientifically� with
>words, but only through practice (otherwise, the ontological argument
>would hold water and all the atheists would have to admit to the
>existence of God.) In order to accept the �science� of the argument,
>one must agree to the assumed terms of the arguer (which, like it or
>not, ALWAYS exist). Just as in our circular verbal �struggle� within
>NJFO, I believe that we have reached a point that can only be resolved
>through practice.
>As for the current state of the egroups �struggle�, it has come to a
>point of �Is so!� , �Is not!� or �Yeah Huh!�, �Na Uh!�, if you ask me.
>As Keith pointed out at the general meeting on Saturday, he has
>responded to BOL/SWORD �very intelligently� and they still persist with
>their slanderous accusations that Curtis is working for the machine &
>J&J. THIS IS NEITHER INTELLECTUAL DEBATE NOR STRUGGLE IN THE SPIRIT OF
>UNITY. In fact, I believe that this situation actually serves to
>stifle real debate by alienating many people who are being exposed to
>the concept of democratic struggle for the first time, just as the
>people who attended the first post-election NJFO meeting were alienated
>by the screaming, yelling, and arguing that resembled a WWF match
>moreso than real intellectual political debate. People feel that if
>they post anything they are opening themselves up to personal attacks.
>I personally am less interested in �engaging� BOL/SWORD in their
>child-like antics, and more concerned with creating a welcoming
>environment where people willing to commit to the principles of the
>People�s Campaign can voice concerns, questions, AND dissent, given it
>is done so in a manner that examines reality, practice, and with a
>spirit of respect and unity.
>Additionally, if BOL/SWORD wish to continue with their slandering of
>Curtis, I believe they have every right to do so. But they should not
>be allowed to continue to do it in a forum that represents their ideas
>as that of the Campaign, just as they should not be allowed to post
>such ideas on a flyer in the name of the People�s Campaign.
>In the true spirit of unity that you, in part, taught me,
>Julie
>PS - Feel free to post this to the group. I only sent it to you
>because we it has been said numerous times to only reply to the
>individual if we are replying to an individual.
>--- Matthew Smith wrote:
> >Flavio (& all)- With respect to the dedicated work that you and others 
>are
> >doing to advance the cause of the people's campaign and democracy, I
> >maintain my vote of dissent on this issue. Legalese aside, it all amounts
> >to about the same thing...
> >
> >To wit: It is safe to assume that every PC member will subscribe to lists 
>1
> >& 2 (in order to get the "official communications" as well as to stay
> >
> >abreast of the current debates) & many will probably opt out of the third
> >unofficial, non-sponsored, non-NBPC egroup list, which is a transparent
> >token gesture seemingly to sooth certain yay-voters' consciences. This
> >model immediately shuts out the general public who are not 'official
> >members' of NBPC, which is contrary to the type of organization that we
> >must have--(I defer to Keith Joseph's stated defense of flexible
> >organizational models rooted in existing community networks and
> >institutions)
> >
> >Furthermore, what do "intellectual property" & "trademark law" have to do
> >with the struggle for peoples democracy & freedom? (...and for all you
> >still willing to claim revolutionary democracy & socialism: letting "a
> >hundred flowers blossom & a hundred schools of thought contend?") This
> >legal
> >
> >bourgeois jargon is intended to protect private property rights, not 
>secure
> >the democratic rights of the people! (ie: NAPSTER!) These concepts are
> >diametrically opposed in principle and in substance.
> >
> >I have stated repeatedly and forcefully my opposition to BOL/SWORD's
> >dogmatic attacks on Curtis, but I will not accept this sort of reaction 
>on
> >the part of the NBPC. Is this or is this not a united front? & if so,
> >should we not expect "aggravating" even infuriating and contrary 
>positions
> >of all sort to be aired? Again I maintain that the way to deal with a bad
> >argument is to put out a better one--clearly & scientifically...and if we
> >do our job, that is, build a real base in the working class community 
>along
> >side the existing base in the university, then the people will decide for
> >themselves what ideas work best for them. But if we continue to set the
> >precedent that dissenting voices will be silenced, then the PC will end 
>up
> >like the ass end of Kenny G's horn heard over the muted airwaves of WBAI
> >Radio.
> >
> >
> >----Original Message Follows---- From: Groovemeister007@... 
>Reply-To:
> >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [nbpc] Re: Egroups Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:02:25 -0000
> >
> >Matt:
> >
> >I think you may have been misinformed about the vote regarding egroups
> >taken on Saturday. In order to safeguard the good name of the New 
>Brunswick
> >People's Campaign from dilution and/or tarnishing, in accordance with
> >principles of intellectual property and trademark law, the membership, 
>with
> >two members dissenting, and one abstaining, decided that:
> >
> >1. there shall be one moderated listserv/Yahoogroup, in which a moderator
> >screens all messages. That list will be used for official NBPC
> >communications, e.g. meeting announcements, minutes, newsletters etc. Any
> >person can read that list but only messages approved by the moderator 
>will
> >be posted.
> >
> >2. there shall be one members' listserv/Yahoogroup, unmoderated. Only 
>NBPC
> >members can post to that list but anyone can read the list.
> >
> >3. there shall be one 'open' and unmoderated list/Yahoogroup in
> >substantially the form as this group where any person can post or read 
>the
> >messages. This list will not be 'sponsored' by NBPC in any way and
> >presumably, it will contain a disclaimer so stating.
> >
> >The precise logistical details, including the name(s) of these lists and
> >what will become of the present list, is still under consideration. This 
>is
> >not at all like the WBAI situation. Ample forums for debate and 
>discussion
> >will remain. However, by parsing this group into different forums, NBPC
> >members and interested parties who choose to communicate by email will be
> >able to better manage what kind of information they want to receive.
> >Likewise, onlookers will be able to make a clear distinction between what
> >is official, what is members' debate, and what is other discussion
> >concerning NBPC.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To Post a message, send it to: nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________ Get 
>your
> >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1339
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 18:19:11
Subject:Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
Message:

self-determination & reparations are basic democratic rights and the only 
"concrete" political basis for national equality.

to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.

scratch a social democrat, find a white supremacist.


>From: jmluceno@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
>
>Joe,
>
>As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not convinced
>of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not heard
>a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I can
>think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
>
>The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement about
>reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came up, I
>would be against both of those lines.
>
>As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot condone
>national self-determination, especially not for the "black nation."  I
>reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-determination
>for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the issue.
>
>In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or the
>members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have never had
>the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it belongs in a
>press statement on police brutality, something we are against in both
>theory and practice?
>
>Jim
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
> >
> >
> > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > >
> > >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
> > >				Press Secretary
> > >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick, NJ 08903
> > >? 732/735-1342
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > >
> > >
> > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S OUSTER
> > >
> > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
>Campaign,
> > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and their
> > >supporters, which includes local residents from all nationalities
>and
> > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
> > >
> > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly welcomes
> > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey State
>Senate
> > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice Peter
> > >Verniero.
> > >
> > >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color, commits a
>hate
> > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and severe
> > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who turn a
> > >blind eye to such acts.
> > >
> > >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent with
> > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee
> > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that Justice
> > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the state
>police
> > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful practice.
> > >
> > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls upon the
> > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for Justice
> > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of senators
>from
> > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > >
> > >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been revealed
> > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's hearings,
>the
> > >need for community control over police is now more acute than ever.
> > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes that
> > >community control, including democratically elected civilian police
> > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate crimes of
> > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > >
> > >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is already
> > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if they are
>good
> > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > >
> > >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 732/514-0610
> > >
> > >-30-
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1340
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 18:19:40
Subject:Re: Ten Reasons for Reparations
Message:

> 1. The U.S. government, not long dead Southern planters, bears the 
blame for 
> slavery. It encoded it in the Constitution in article one. This 
designated a 
> black slave as three-fifths of a person for tax and political 
representation 
> purposes. It protected and nourished it in article four by 
mandating that 
> all escaped slaves found anywhere in the nation be returned to 
their 
> masters. In the Dred Scott decision in 1857, the U.S. Supreme Court 
> reaffirmed that slaves remained slaves no matter where they were 
taken in 
> the United States.

"The U.S. government" was largely comprised of dead Southern 
planters.  Please keep that in mind.  There were more Southern states 
than Northern States, and the Supreme Court was made up of more 
justices from the South than from the North.  

Simple reasoning here would lead one to see that the government was 
in the hands of a reactionary, pre-modern clique.  

When modernity triumphed over pre-modernity in the U.S., THEN the 
government betrayed the revolution by throwing power back into the 
hands of the states.  

Do you want to punish the U.S. government for that betrayal?  Is that 
what you're going to argue here?  

> 
> 
> 2. Major institutions profited from slavery. In October, the 
California 
> state legislature passed a bill requiring insurance companies to 
disclose 
> whether they wrote policies insuring slaves. This was recognition 
that 
> insurance companies made profits insuring slaves as property. The 
insurance 
> industry was not the only culprit. Banks, shipping companies, and 
investment 
> houses also made enormous profits from financing slave purchases, 
> investments in Southern land and products, and the transport, and 
sale of 
> slaves.

Here's a tip:  The whole damn world benefitted from the products of 
slavery.  Where do you think all the workers in Europe got the cotton 
for their clothes?

> 
> 
> 3. Slavery ended in 1865 but the legacy of slavery still remains. A 
report 
> by the National Conference for Community and Justice, a Washington 
D.C. 
> public policy group in 2000, found that blacks are still the major 
economic 
> and social victims of racial discrimination. They are far more 
likely to 
> live in underserved segregated neighborhoods, be refused business 
and 
> housing loans, be denied promotions in corporations and attend cash 
starved, 
> failing public schools than whites.

Sure, but then again, the black middle class has grown steadily while 
the white middle class has been shrinking.

What happens when a impoverished black becomes middle class?  He or 
she moves out, right?  I don't see how you can blame a person for 
wanting to leave the ghetto.  But the reality is that it changes the 
social relations when black professionals leave a community.  And as 
you'll find out if you debate me rather than posting information to 
me (I can go find information myself), I believe social relations are 
the problem and not simply *money*.

> 
> 
> 4. There's a direct cost for slavery's legacy. Former Federal 
Reserve Board 
> Chairman Andrew Brimmer estimates that discrimination costs blacks 
$10 
> billion yearly through the black-white wage gap, denial of capital 
access, 
> inadequate public services, and reduced social security and other 
government 
> benefits. This has been called the "black tax."

Yep.  Largely racism has not diminished at all since the 60s.  I 
mean, people lie about it.  They say they're not racist, because they 
have been told it is wrong to say racist things.  But if you get them 
to express their true opinions on people of other colored skin, 
they'll tell you that they're prejudiced.  A group of psychology 
students from University of California did an experiment like this 
back in 80s I think where they went around, trying to gauge people in 
words and actions how they feel about ... THE OTHER.  Well, needless 
to say, on the questionaires they were all "tolerant" and whatnot, 
but when it came down to anonymous action, a diner owner would deny 
service to a person simply on the basis of ... the color of their 
skin.

So don't just blame the U.S. government.  There would appear to be an 
endemic cultural problem of racism in this country that is not simply 
reducible to money signs.

> 
> 
> 5. The U.S. government has shelled out billions since the 1960s to 
pay for 
> resettlement, job training, education, and health programs for 
refugees 
> fleeing Communist repression. Politicians and the majority of the 
public 
> enthusiastically backed these payments as the morally and legally 
right 
> thing to do.
> 
> 
> 6. The reparations issue will not fuel more hatred of blacks. Most 
Americans 
> admit that slavery was a morally monstrous system that wreaked 
severe pain 
> and suffering on America. City councils in Chicago, Dallas, 
Oakland, and Los 
> Angeles, and other cities in the past year have passed resolutions 
> supporting a federal commission to study reparations. Also, there 
was no 
> national outcry when the U.S. government made special indemnity 
payments, 
> provided land and social service benefits to Japanese-Americans 
interned 
> during World War II, Native-Americans for the theft of lands and 
mineral 
> rights, and Philippine veterans who fought with the American army 
during 
> World War II.

Well, I'm not concerned about making whites hate blacks any more than 
they do.

I'm not arguing this from the point of view of somebody who says, "To 
hell with blacks.  I'm not paying for them..."  I'm arguing from the 
point of view of somebody who has a genuine interest in seeing the 
disappearance of racism, but I just don't think reparations are the 
way to do it.

> 
> 
> 7. No legislation has been proposed that mandates taxpayers pay 
billions to 
> blacks. A bill by Michigan Democrat John Conyers that has 
languished in 
> Congress since 1993 simply establishes a commission to study the 
effects of 
> slavery. The estimated cost is less than $10 million.

You're not just talking about the effects of studying slavery.  
You're talking about paying a large sum of money to poor blacks.

Question: Why were there never reparations for the Irish?  

The answer is tied in largely to what the *real* problem of racism 
against blacks is in the U.S.  That it's *not* just money.  It's a 
question of national identity and social relations.

> 
> 
> 8. There is a precedent for paying blacks for past legal and moral 
wrongs. 
> In 1997 Clinton apologized and the U.S. government paid $10 million 
to the 
> black survivors and family members victimized by the syphilis 
experiment 
> conducted in the 1930's by the U.S. Public Health Service. In 1994, 
the 
> Florida legislature agreed to make payments to the survivors and 
relatives 
> of those who lost their lives and property when a white mob 
destroyed the 
> all-black town of Rosewood in 1923. The carnage was tacitly 
condoned by 
> public officials and law enforcement officers. The Oklahoma state 
> legislature is currently considering reparations payments to the 
survivors 
> and their descendants of the destruction of black neighborhoods in 
Tulsa by 
> white mobs in 1921.
> 
> 
> 9. Oprah Winfrey, Bill Cosby, Michael Jordan and other mega-rich 
blacks will 
> not receive a penny in reparations. Any tax money to redress black 
suffering 
> should go into a fund to bolster funding for AIDS/HIV education and 
> prevention, underfinanced inner-city public schools, to expand job 
skills 
> and training, drug and alcohol counseling and rehabilitation, 
computer 
> access and literacy training programs, and to improve public 
services for 
> the estimated one in four blacks still trapped in poverty.
> 
> 
> 10. Thirty years ago a writer passionately argued that the U.S. 
government 
> has kept the "black ghettos in a colonial status since 
Reconstruction" and 
> refused to meet the "most basic political and economic demands of 
the black 
> movement." That writer was David Horowitz. He made the argument in 
his book, 
> Empire and Revolution, a blistering indictment of the U.S. 
government. 
> Radical hyperbole notwithstanding, Horowitz recognized then that 
America 
> owed a debt to black America for past and present sins. It still 
does.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1341
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 18:20:55
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Long Live the Court Tavern!
Message:

"& their hoses won't be worth a dime...

for the fire next time!"


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, mcrockford@..., 
>djbender@..., unlockingexits@..., renren59@..., 
>sztamke@..., kvt@..., NatBender@..., 
>traceyx@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Long Live the Court Tavern!
>Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 17:10:49
>
>
>Hey folks- the Court Tavern has a long and storied history of struggling 
>and
>against the grain of the NB Machine and for positive culture, and so far 
>its
>been survival...for decades, they have built up networks of local
>progressive artists and activism.  My advice is to contact Bobby and ask 
>him
>what sort of help they need...and look to bring the Court on board the
>broader struggle against this gentrification by talking it up with the
>regulars.  But approached it in an organized way (as opposed to hald a 
>dozen
>people running to him with a dozen plans for action) so that Bobby & Co.
>feels that by working with us it will better their chance for continued
>survival rather than feeling that their establishment will be jeopordized
>further, as has happened in the past.  It's a great opportunity to bridge a
>gap between what is left of the more passive progressive/artistic NB
>community & the working class neighborhoods...
>
>"They'll damn sure feel the fire, and they'll damn sure feel the 
>heat...when
>the middle of the roaders take the middle of the street!"
>-the late & timeless Mark Bradely, NB singer/songwriter
>
>Matthew
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] City Council Meeting Tonite
>Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 10:53:35 -0400
>
>good work alyssa, there will definitely be a chance for the public to 
>speak,
>plus bobby alverez, owner of tavern, will be there to question city's
>motives. it should be tied to the overall attack on arts and culture that 
>is
>taking place in New Brunswick in order to gain support base for arguement.
>
>joe
>
>
>  >From: Alyssa Coiley <ajoy110@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: [nbpc] City Council Meeting Tonite
>  >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:39:24 -0700 (PDT)
>  >
>  >The Home News reported this morning that the court
>  >tavern fears that it will have to close its doors to
>  >city redevelopers who want to build an office on the
>  >corner of Church and Spring Streets.
>  >
>  >We are looking for a volunteer to attend the city
>  >council meeting tonight where there will be a vote on
>  >this issue. Possibly there will be a chance to talk
>  >about the Peoples Campaign feelings about city
>  >redevelopment.
>  >
>  >the meeting is tonight at 7pm at City Hall on Bayard
>  >St.
>  >
>  >Please let us know if you can attend by an email on
>  >the egroups.
>  >
>  >thanks
>  >alyssa joy
>  >steering commitee rep for the women's caucus
>  >
>  >__________________________________________________
>  >Do You Yahoo!?
>  >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>  >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
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>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1342
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 18:24:26
Subject:Re: [nbpc] lsit serve expulsions
Message:

from the predictions of Prophet Paul McGee:

"next SWORD will demand community control over cyberspace..."

hmm

>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] lsit serve expulsions
>Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 04:21:36 -0000
>
>Kris and whoever else may be interested,
>
>I explained to Matt the decision that took place at the last PC meeting to
>turn the list serve into an exclusive list. This was done for the expressed
>purpose to expel block on lock from the discussion but it also expels 
>anyone
>who is not a member of the campaign. Non-members currently make up the
>overwhelming majority of New Brunswick residents. Flavio made and repeated
>on this list the argument that proceeds from a principle of intellectual
>property rights and trademark rights:
>
>" In order to safeguard the good name of
>the New Brunswick People's Campaign from dilution and/or tarnishing,
>in accordance with principles of intellectual property and trademark
>law, the membership, with two members dissenting, and one abstaining..."
>
>In my opinion this decision makes a mockery of any claims to democracy.
>Flavio is without doubt a brilliant legal mind, but he has not yet learned
>to view bourgeois law critically though he has clearly mastered it. The
>notion of "Intellectual property rights" while resting on sound footing in
>terms of bourgeois law are diametrically opposed to even basic principles 
>of
>humanism and much more people's or revolutionary democracy. Human advance 
>be
>it technological, productive, or intellectual is the collective heritage 
>and
>birthright of every single person on the planet. No one person creates
>anything. For instance Jimi Hendrix's music is not possible on the one hand
>without the blues and on the other without an electeric guitar, which is 
>not
>possible without work songs on the one hand and electricity on the other.
>All of this requires a certain level of development. The People's Campaign
>should be taking strong positions against the whole idea of intellectual
>property rights and certainly not employing it as a trump over open debate.
>Once again issues of ownership, control, and a proprietary attitude are at
>the fore. This is the opposite attitude needed if the Campaign is going to
>be a vehicle for working people in New Brunswick.
>
>In my opinion the decision at the last meeting was shameful. There is a
>principle at hand here but it has nothing to do with property rights...
>or maybe it does...
>
>Keith
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1343
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 18:26:57
Subject:Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

Self-determination is a basic democratic right?  

So if I want to break off and form a country out of Sandford St. down 
here, that's ok?

Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-determination.  I'm 
not following.  

I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm down with radical 
democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But where do you get 
reparations out of this?

And show me how rejecting national self-determination and reparations 
makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.  

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> 
wrote:
> self-determination & reparations are basic democratic rights and 
the only 
> "concrete" political basis for national equality.
> 
> to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> 
> scratch a social democrat, find a white supremacist.
> 
> 
> >From: jmluceno@e...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> >
> >Joe,
> >
> >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not 
convinced
> >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not 
heard
> >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I can
> >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
> >
> >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement 
about
> >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came 
up, I
> >would be against both of those lines.
> >
> >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot condone
> >national self-determination, especially not for the "black 
nation."  I
> >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-determination
> >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the 
issue.
> >
> >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or the
> >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have never had
> >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it belongs 
in a
> >press statement on police brutality, something we are against in 
both
> >theory and practice?
> >
> >Jim
> >
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> 
wrote:
> > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > >
> > > >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
> > > >				Press Secretary
> > > >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick, NJ 08903
> > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S OUSTER
> > > >
> > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
> >Campaign,
> > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and their
> > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all 
nationalities
> >and
> > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
> > > >
> > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly welcomes
> > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey State
> >Senate
> > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice Peter
> > > >Verniero.
> > > >
> > > >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color, commits 
a
> >hate
> > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and severe
> > > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who 
turn a
> > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > >
> > > >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent with
> > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary 
Committee
> > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that 
Justice
> > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the state
> >police
> > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful practice.
> > > >
> > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls upon the
> > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for 
Justice
> > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of 
senators
> >from
> > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > >
> > > >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been revealed
> > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's 
hearings,
> >the
> > > >need for community control over police is now more acute than 
ever.
> > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes that
> > > >community control, including democratically elected civilian 
police
> > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate crimes 
of
> > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > > >
> > > >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is already
> > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if they are
> >good
> > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > >
> > > >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 732/514-0610
> > > >
> > > >-30-
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > 
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1344
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 18:31:14
Subject:Re: [nbpc] listserve
Message:

pro-republican fascist censorship

or

working-class anti-imperialism?

tick, tick, tick...


>From: Zofia Nowakowski <znowakowski@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] listserve
>Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:42:34 -0700 (PDT)
>
>My opinion on the listserve has nothing to do with
>intellectual property rights but the desire to keep
>people interested in the campaign on the listserve, so
>that the list can serve its function as a place where
>people concerned about the campaign can discuss it.
>
>Over the last few weeks I noticed the following:  1.
>It has been brought to my attention that members are
>leaving the listserve because it has become dominated
>by the antagonisms largely of a few people not even in
>the campaign 2. The machine is printing out and
>sharing everything we write, and alot of it is not
>representative of the campaign. One member brought up
>this concern and we had a full discussion of this in
>women's caucus.  3. The last anonymous obscene posting
>was the last straw for me.  At the very least people
>should stand for what they post on this site.
>
>The need to address the listserve has been brought
>forward by members in the campaign.  At the last
>meeting, we tried to address it.
>
>I opposed a moderator because that to me is the direct
>practice of censorship.  What other approaches do we
>have than setting up 3 lists, so that each person
>concerned about the campaign can be a part of
>information sharing and discussion to the greatest
>extent possible?  I am open to other solutions, but
>the problem of #1. above is of greatest concern to me
>and my understanding is it must be addressed so people
>in the campaign remain involved in discussion.
>
>Weve got alot of huge, critical decisions coming up
>and I have no idea how we will make informed decisions
>without informed discussion.  I feel extremely
>uncomfortable making any of the upcoming decisions
>without all of us receiving more information and
>exploring all the issues, to the point where I think
>we shouldnt vote on them until we have discussed them
>thoroughly, and that means not just a few people,
>those who propose these ideas or are in leadership
>positions, but as much of the membership as possible.
>
>Any other ideas about ways to have this listserve be a
>more broadly accessible forum for discussion?
>Fortunately or unfortunately, not everyone has such a
>high tolerance for antagonism as those who have been
>dominating this list.
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1345
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 18:47:14
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Americans Arrive To Study in Cuba
Message:

viva peoples' cuba!


>From: hajdukmi@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>CC: aspirito70@..., rbender65@..., Funkhouser@..., 
>mcrockford@..., citruswar@..., djbender@..., 
>unlockingexits@..., emilio@..., bigjuba@..., 
>renren59@..., sztamke@..., kmyers@..., OH_G@..., 
>MeadHajduk@..., essenjovu@..., msda_msmith@..., 
>hajdukmi@..., monicaroses@..., NatBender@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, traceyx@..., 
>vspirito@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Americans Arrive To Study in Cuba
>Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:29:48 -0400
>
>
>Americans Arrive To Study in Cuba
>The Associated Press, Wed 4 Apr 2001
>
>HAVANA (AP) ? A U.S. flag was flown and the American anthem was played 
>Wednesday as Cuba welcomed eight young Americans arriving here to study
>medicine courtesy of the communist government.
>
>The six women and two men from minority families arrived in Havana late 
>Tuesday. They are the first Americans to attend a free six-year program to
>become physicians originally designed for impoverished students in Latin 
>America.
>
>President Fidel Castro offered to extend the free medical training to 
>include up to 500 Americans when he met last May with a delegation from the
>Congressional Black Caucus.
>
>``It would be hard for your government to oppose such a program,'' Castro 
>told the U.S. lawmakers at the time. ``It would be a trial for them.
>Morally, how could they refuse?''
>
>The U.S. State Department later said it would not oppose the program, 
>saying that it had been American policy to encourage contact between 
>ordinary
>Cubans and Americans.
>
>``This is a modest beginning to a revolutionary and visionary idea,'' said 
>the Rev. Lucius Walker, head of the U.S. organization Pastors for Peace,
>which regularly brings medicine and other humanitarian aid to the Caribbean 
>island.
>
>``We are confident that you will open your arms and your hearts and receive 
>our children as your own,'' Walker told Cubans attending a small welcoming
>  ceremony on Wednesday at the Latin American School of Medicine.
>
>``This is an opportunity for me to study medicine and become a great doctor 
>while learning about the Cuban medical system,'' said Karima Mosi, 22, of
>San Diego.
>
>``I understand that the medical school in Cuba is among the best in Latin 
>America and the world, so I have no reservations about my education,'' Mosi
>said.
>
>The Americans join more than 4,000 other students from 24 other nations in 
>Latin America, the Caribbean and Africa who now attend classes at the
>medical school, which opened two years ago.
>
>When commenting last November on Cuba's proposed program for American 
>medical students, the U.S. State Department noted that it was unclear 
>whether
>Americans who receive training in Cuba will be able to meet licensing 
>requirements once they return home.
>
>Many Cuban physicians who emigrate to the United States have had difficulty 
>obtaining permission to practice.
>
>Cuba also proposed sending its own doctors to poor areas of the United 
>States as part of the program, but the State Department said the idea was
>rejected.
>
>Cuba has a surplus of doctors and dispatches thousands abroad each year to 
>work in other developing countries.
>
>Shortages of basic medicines have been acute in recent years in Cuba, 
>particularly in the decade since the collapse of the Soviet Union ? once 
>the
>island's principal trading partner.
>
>Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
>This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1346
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 18:48:31
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Ten Reasons for Reparations
Message:

princeton ran this ad, to no vocal outcry.

the mason/dixon line runs through nj...

death to the klan.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Ten Reasons for Reparations
>Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 19:16:46
>
>Ten Reasons for Reparations
>Earl Ofari Hutchinson, AlterNet
>April 3, 2001
>Viewed on April 6, 2001
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Conservative muckraker David Horowitz has been verbally mugged for peddling
>an ad to college newspapers giving ten reasons why reparations are racist.
>But the name callers have done little more than canonize Horowitz as a
>martyr for truth and free speech. Even worse, they've failed miserably to
>tell why reparations merit a serious look. There are ten compelling reasons
>it does.
>
>
>1. The U.S. government, not long dead Southern planters, bears the blame 
>for
>slavery. It encoded it in the Constitution in article one. This designated 
>a
>black slave as three-fifths of a person for tax and political 
>representation
>purposes. It protected and nourished it in article four by mandating that
>all escaped slaves found anywhere in the nation be returned to their
>masters. In the Dred Scott decision in 1857, the U.S. Supreme Court
>reaffirmed that slaves remained slaves no matter where they were taken in
>the United States.
>
>
>2. Major institutions profited from slavery. In October, the California
>state legislature passed a bill requiring insurance companies to disclose
>whether they wrote policies insuring slaves. This was recognition that
>insurance companies made profits insuring slaves as property. The insurance
>industry was not the only culprit. Banks, shipping companies, and 
>investment
>houses also made enormous profits from financing slave purchases,
>investments in Southern land and products, and the transport, and sale of
>slaves.
>
>
>3. Slavery ended in 1865 but the legacy of slavery still remains. A report
>by the National Conference for Community and Justice, a Washington D.C.
>public policy group in 2000, found that blacks are still the major economic
>and social victims of racial discrimination. They are far more likely to
>live in underserved segregated neighborhoods, be refused business and
>housing loans, be denied promotions in corporations and attend cash 
>starved,
>failing public schools than whites.
>
>
>4. There's a direct cost for slavery's legacy. Former Federal Reserve Board
>Chairman Andrew Brimmer estimates that discrimination costs blacks $10
>billion yearly through the black-white wage gap, denial of capital access,
>inadequate public services, and reduced social security and other 
>government
>benefits. This has been called the "black tax."
>
>
>5. The U.S. government has shelled out billions since the 1960s to pay for
>resettlement, job training, education, and health programs for refugees
>fleeing Communist repression. Politicians and the majority of the public
>enthusiastically backed these payments as the morally and legally right
>thing to do.
>
>
>6. The reparations issue will not fuel more hatred of blacks. Most 
>Americans
>admit that slavery was a morally monstrous system that wreaked severe pain
>and suffering on America. City councils in Chicago, Dallas, Oakland, and 
>Los
>Angeles, and other cities in the past year have passed resolutions
>supporting a federal commission to study reparations. Also, there was no
>national outcry when the U.S. government made special indemnity payments,
>provided land and social service benefits to Japanese-Americans interned
>during World War II, Native-Americans for the theft of lands and mineral
>rights, and Philippine veterans who fought with the American army during
>World War II.
>
>
>7. No legislation has been proposed that mandates taxpayers pay billions to
>blacks. A bill by Michigan Democrat John Conyers that has languished in
>Congress since 1993 simply establishes a commission to study the effects of
>slavery. The estimated cost is less than $10 million.
>
>
>8. There is a precedent for paying blacks for past legal and moral wrongs.
>In 1997 Clinton apologized and the U.S. government paid $10 million to the
>black survivors and family members victimized by the syphilis experiment
>conducted in the 1930's by the U.S. Public Health Service. In 1994, the
>Florida legislature agreed to make payments to the survivors and relatives
>of those who lost their lives and property when a white mob destroyed the
>all-black town of Rosewood in 1923. The carnage was tacitly condoned by
>public officials and law enforcement officers. The Oklahoma state
>legislature is currently considering reparations payments to the survivors
>and their descendants of the destruction of black neighborhoods in Tulsa by
>white mobs in 1921.
>
>
>9. Oprah Winfrey, Bill Cosby, Michael Jordan and other mega-rich blacks 
>will
>not receive a penny in reparations. Any tax money to redress black 
>suffering
>should go into a fund to bolster funding for AIDS/HIV education and
>prevention, underfinanced inner-city public schools, to expand job skills
>and training, drug and alcohol counseling and rehabilitation, computer
>access and literacy training programs, and to improve public services for
>the estimated one in four blacks still trapped in poverty.
>
>
>10. Thirty years ago a writer passionately argued that the U.S. government
>has kept the "black ghettos in a colonial status since Reconstruction" and
>refused to meet the "most basic political and economic demands of the black
>movement." That writer was David Horowitz. He made the argument in his 
>book,
>Empire and Revolution, a blistering indictment of the U.S. government.
>Radical hyperbole notwithstanding, Horowitz recognized then that America
>owed a debt to black America for past and present sins. It still does.
>
>
>Earl Ofari Hutchinson is the President of The National Alliance for 
>Positive
>Action and the author of The Disappearance of Black Leadership (Middle
>Passage Press).
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1347
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 18:54:43
Subject:Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
Message:

"In fact, the extent to which they moved to make[!?!] blacks a part of the 
United States democracy was the extent to which white actually helped save 
their own country."

the US (usurers/savages-AB) has never been a democracy.
death to imperialism.


>From: jmluceno@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
>Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 21:37:48 -0000
>
>You fight against racism because it is a limitation of democracy and
>progress.  Period.  You fight against anything that is an objective
>limit to democracy.
>
>I agree that blacks are oppressed in America.  Do they comprise a
>nation, though, in the strict sense of the word?  I don't think so.
>
>We have to broaden this conception of nation, anyway.  You cannot
>base a nation on color difference or on religious difference without
>falling into totalitarianism.  In the United States, this was the
>initial mistake that whites made, and one could make the argument
>that it almost destroyed the country.  In fact, the extent to which
>they moved to make blacks a part of the United States democracy was
>the extent to which white actually helped save their own country.
>
>I regard any split along color, ethnic, or religious lines to be
>essentially pre-modern.  It has no place in modern democracy.
>Sorry.  That's the way it is.  If your idea of a nation, and what you
>fight for, is not going to be 100% secular and universal, then you're
>just not really progressive.
>
>Are you an internationalist?  I hope you are if you're a Marxist.
>Then why wage your struggle in anything smaller than the existing
>nation state?  Don't you become an advocate of balkanization if you
>want to separate one ethnic group from another within a country, or
>am I misunderstanding your position?
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > why even demand that verneiro be removed? why fight racist
>profiling at all,
> > and not work to advance upon the current positions being put
>forward?
> >
> > the question of "community control" (if that is still the campaign
>slogan?)
> > is a question of self-determination. that is, that the community
>would
> > determine their relationship to housing, childcare, education,
>police, &tc.
> > by democratically controlling these institutions. self-
>determination is a
> > democratic demand and as DuBios stated - either america will admit
>black
> > people on the basis of democracy, or america will cease to exist.
> >
> > do you disagree that there is an oppressed black nation in america?
> >
> > joe
> >
> >
> > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > >
> > >Joe,
> > >
> > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not
>convinced
> > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not
>heard
> > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I can
> > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
> > >
> > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement
>about
> > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came
>up, I
> > >would be against both of those lines.
> > >
> > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot condone
> > >national self-determination, especially not for the "black
>nation."  I
> > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-determination
> > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the
>issue.
> > >
> > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or the
> > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have never had
> > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it belongs
>in a
> > >press statement on police brutality, something we are against in
>both
> > >theory and practice?
> > >
> > >Jim
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
>wrote:
> > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
> > > > >				Press Secretary
> > > > >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick, NJ 08903
> > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S OUSTER
> > > > >
> > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
> > >Campaign,
> > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and their
> > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
>nationalities
> > >and
> > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
> > > > >
> > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly welcomes
> > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey State
> > >Senate
> > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice Peter
> > > > >Verniero.
> > > > >
> > > > >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color, commits
>a
> > >hate
> > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and severe
> > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who
>turn a
> > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > >
> > > > >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent with
> > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary
>Committee
> > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that
>Justice
> > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the state
> > >police
> > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful practice.
> > > > >
> > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls upon the
> > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for
>Justice
> > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of
>senators
> > >from
> > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > >
> > > > >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been revealed
> > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's
>hearings,
> > >the
> > > > >need for community control over police is now more acute than
>ever.
> > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes that
> > > > >community control, including democratically elected civilian
>police
> > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate crimes
>of
> > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > > > >
> > > > >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is already
> > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if they are
> > >good
> > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > >
> > > > >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 732/514-0610
> > > > >
> > > > >-30-
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1348
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 18:43:50
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
Message:

thoughtful tribute & analysis.

mark played every benefit & rally he was available for.  ill never forget 
his shows. & viva the court tavern (aka "club foot")!

one of mark's closest musical comrades and longtime court tavern musician, 
greg digesu, also formerly of the area, now in NYC, will be returning sat 
apr. 14th to play the court with his new band "speedsters & dopers".

it should prove to be somewhat of a court re-union, &tc.

cultural revolution against imperialism!
peoples' art!

>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: aspirito70@..., rbender65@..., Funkhouser@..., 
>mcrockford@..., citruswar@..., djbender@..., 
>unlockingexits@..., emilio@..., bigjuba@..., 
>renren59@..., sztamke@..., kmyers@..., OH_G@..., 
>MeadHajduk@..., essenjovu@..., msda_msmith@..., 
>hajdukmi@..., monicaroses@..., NatBender@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, traceyx@..., 
>vspirito@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
>Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 16:39:34
>
>
>Just a quick note on this impending disaster for local culture in NB:
>
>
>One of the very first cultural experiences that I had when I first moved to
>New Brunswick (following a year long motorcycle journey across the country)
>was a deeply moving memorial service at the Court Tavern for some guy
>everyone was grieving for named Mark Bradley.  They talked about him like 
>he
>was the local Bob Dylan.  I can still clearly remember the feeling I had
>when I walked into the Court for the first time & one of his close friends
>whose name I never got was sitting in an old barber's chair sobbing and
>asking the wind "Why couldn't it have been me?..."  For the next few years 
>I
>spent getting active in community organizing & setting up fund raising
>events (remember 77 Central?!), I met various and sundry artists & 
>musicians
>who knew and would talk about Mark the mistrel, the songwriter, the cook,
>the friend--and when the CD came out, I finally had a glimpse of what
>everyone was missing so deeply.  There was a spirit there, and a
>consiousness...an awareness and a song.  Mark Bradley, though I never met
>him, made my life in NB have a meaning and purpose that it might never have
>had otherwise.  I still shed a tear when I think about him like this, & I
>never even met him.  Maybe he represents to me a world that could be and
>should be but isn't and sometimes that world seems to come within reach,
>while other times it seems to be slipping away into some primordial
>mist........  Now, the thought of the Court Tavern--where this all began 
>for
>me, and probably so many other in their own way--the thought of it going
>under the recking ball so that those god-damned lifeless corporate zombies
>can put up another one of their sickening institutional pink & mauve
>frankenstein buildings makes me numb!  We see it all around us in NB.
>Everytime I go back to visit, I see another block that's been closed off or
>bulldozed & another lego development is going up...& I know that there used
>to be a community there with real people who were living real lives, & I
>wonder where they go.  So now maybe it's coming home for me and many of you
>who always had somewhere to go to in NB to see a familiar face.  & my
>question is, what are we going to do about it?  I don't have any easy
>answers, but I would say that people need to start thinking really hard out
>loud about if we want to sit back and watch it all slip into the mist...or
>if we are going to defend one of the last real spaces that we have left!
>
>"They're going to feel the fire, and they'll damn sure feel the heat,
>when the middle of the roaders take the middle of the street!"
>
>              -the late and timeless Mark Bradely
>
>...& in the last words of Eliot Katz's tribute poem to Mark:
>
>                "Down with the Multinationals!"
>
>--Matthew Smith
>
>
>----original message-----
>
>From: Tom Murphy
>Subject: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:17:35 -0400
>
>For everyone who might be interested to know.....
>
>
>http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,376861,00.html
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1349
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 19:19:50
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-determination & 
the theft of national resources.  your celebrated "modernism" is the 
ideology of Trooper Profiling.

you have no national relation to sanford st.  however democracy means those 
oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st & the US urban centers, 
and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne Nations have the right to 
politically & economically control those areas in which they are the 
plurality. to determine their relationship to the US, which they have never 
done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of all Black peoples in US.

you should develop a community consciousness at sanford st & demand 
community self-determination against j&j dictatorship, which is the heart of 
the demand "community control". not "work with j&j to solve problems".

you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction by fascist terror. the 
"modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 hayes-tilden scheme.  where 
is the 40acres & mule?

Black America thoroughly meets the definition of nation: common geographic 
area, culture, history, developed economy, as put forward first by Joe 
Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.

self-determination & reparations for women against patriarchy!

self-determination & reparations for workers against capital!

people vs. imperialism



>From: jmluceno@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
>
>Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
>
>So if I want to break off and form a country out of Sandford St. down
>here, that's ok?
>
>Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-determination.  I'm
>not following.
>
>I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm down with radical
>democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But where do you get
>reparations out of this?
>
>And show me how rejecting national self-determination and reparations
>makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>wrote:
> > self-determination & reparations are basic democratic rights and
>the only
> > "concrete" political basis for national equality.
> >
> > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> >
> > scratch a social democrat, find a white supremacist.
> >
> >
> > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > >
> > >Joe,
> > >
> > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not
>convinced
> > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not
>heard
> > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I can
> > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
> > >
> > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement
>about
> > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came
>up, I
> > >would be against both of those lines.
> > >
> > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot condone
> > >national self-determination, especially not for the "black
>nation."  I
> > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-determination
> > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the
>issue.
> > >
> > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or the
> > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have never had
> > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it belongs
>in a
> > >press statement on police brutality, something we are against in
>both
> > >theory and practice?
> > >
> > >Jim
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
>wrote:
> > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
> > > > >				Press Secretary
> > > > >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick, NJ 08903
> > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S OUSTER
> > > > >
> > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
> > >Campaign,
> > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and their
> > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
>nationalities
> > >and
> > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
> > > > >
> > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly welcomes
> > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey State
> > >Senate
> > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice Peter
> > > > >Verniero.
> > > > >
> > > > >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color, commits
>a
> > >hate
> > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and severe
> > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who
>turn a
> > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > >
> > > > >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent with
> > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary
>Committee
> > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that
>Justice
> > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the state
> > >police
> > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful practice.
> > > > >
> > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls upon the
> > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for
>Justice
> > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of
>senators
> > >from
> > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > >
> > > > >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been revealed
> > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's
>hearings,
> > >the
> > > > >need for community control over police is now more acute than
>ever.
> > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes that
> > > > >community control, including democratically elected civilian
>police
> > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate crimes
>of
> > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > > > >
> > > > >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is already
> > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if they are
> > >good
> > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > >
> > > > >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 732/514-0610
> > > > >
> > > > >-30-
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1350
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 18:07:22
Subject:Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
Message:

very good, & hope you will attend the statewide mtg in trenton--4pm, sat, 
imani community ctr, 2 prospect st.  call to carpool 214.8828.

& the nb organizing mtg--1pm, sun, public library.

most important is to finance buses ($275per), and to quickly(!) network to 
sign-up marchers.

also, now that republicans are endorsing our demands, we should probably 
rachet them up.

self-determination & reparations for oppressed nations.

btw--democracy in itself will not end imperialism/national oppression.  
rather expose it fully.  what we need is "community control over the means 
of production", the peoples' dictatorship.


>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
>
>				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
>				Press Secretary
>				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick, NJ 08903
>? 732/735-1342
>
>
>
>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S OUSTER
>
>NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's Campaign,
>a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and their
>supporters, which includes local residents from all nationalities and
>socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
>
>	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly welcomes
>the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey State Senate
>is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice Peter
>Verniero.
>
>	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
>brutality against and mistreatment of people of color, commits a hate
>crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and severe
>punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who turn a
>blind eye to such acts.
>
>	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent with
>those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee
>has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that Justice
>Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the state police
>and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful practice.
>
>	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls upon the
>New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for Justice
>Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of senators from
>the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
>
>	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been revealed
>to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's hearings, the
>need for community control over police is now more acute than ever.
>NBPC supports community control over police, and believes that
>community control, including democratically elected civilian police
>review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate crimes of
>racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
>
>	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is already
>advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if they are good
>conscience, to support these efforts.
>
>	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 732/514-0610
>
>-30-
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1351
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 20:38:27
Subject:Look.
Message:

Do I look like a telephone poll or a bulletin board to you?

Then why are you posting slogans to me?

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> 
wrote:
> "In fact, the extent to which they moved to make[!?!] blacks a part 
of the 
> United States democracy was the extent to which white actually 
helped save 
> their own country."
> 
> the US (usurers/savages-AB) has never been a democracy.
> death to imperialism.
> 
> 
> >From: jmluceno@e...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 21:37:48 -0000
> >
> >You fight against racism because it is a limitation of democracy 
and
> >progress.  Period.  You fight against anything that is an objective
> >limit to democracy.
> >
> >I agree that blacks are oppressed in America.  Do they comprise a
> >nation, though, in the strict sense of the word?  I don't think so.
> >
> >We have to broaden this conception of nation, anyway.  You cannot
> >base a nation on color difference or on religious difference 
without
> >falling into totalitarianism.  In the United States, this was the
> >initial mistake that whites made, and one could make the argument
> >that it almost destroyed the country.  In fact, the extent to which
> >they moved to make blacks a part of the United States democracy was
> >the extent to which white actually helped save their own country.
> >
> >I regard any split along color, ethnic, or religious lines to be
> >essentially pre-modern.  It has no place in modern democracy.
> >Sorry.  That's the way it is.  If your idea of a nation, and what 
you
> >fight for, is not going to be 100% secular and universal, then 
you're
> >just not really progressive.
> >
> >Are you an internationalist?  I hope you are if you're a Marxist.
> >Then why wage your struggle in anything smaller than the existing
> >nation state?  Don't you become an advocate of balkanization if you
> >want to separate one ethnic group from another within a country, or
> >am I misunderstanding your position?
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> 
wrote:
> > > why even demand that verneiro be removed? why fight racist
> >profiling at all,
> > > and not work to advance upon the current positions being put
> >forward?
> > >
> > > the question of "community control" (if that is still the 
campaign
> >slogan?)
> > > is a question of self-determination. that is, that the community
> >would
> > > determine their relationship to housing, childcare, education,
> >police, &tc.
> > > by democratically controlling these institutions. self-
> >determination is a
> > > democratic demand and as DuBios stated - either america will 
admit
> >black
> > > people on the basis of democracy, or america will cease to 
exist.
> > >
> > > do you disagree that there is an oppressed black nation in 
america?
> > >
> > > joe
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > >
> > > >Joe,
> > > >
> > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not
> >convinced
> > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not
> >heard
> > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I 
can
> > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
> > > >
> > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement
> >about
> > > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came
> >up, I
> > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > >
> > > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot 
condone
> > > >national self-determination, especially not for the "black
> >nation."  I
> > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-
determination
> > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the
> >issue.
> > > >
> > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or 
the
> > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have 
never had
> > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it 
belongs
> >in a
> > > >press statement on police brutality, something we are against 
in
> >both
> > > >theory and practice?
> > > >
> > > >Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> >wrote:
> > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S 
CAMPAIGN
> > > > > >				Press Secretary
> > > > > >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick, 
NJ 08903
> > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S 
OUSTER
> > > > > >
> > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
> > > >Campaign,
> > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and 
their
> > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
> >nationalities
> > > >and
> > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly 
welcomes
> > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey 
State
> > > >Senate
> > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice 
Peter
> > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color, 
commits
> >a
> > > >hate
> > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and 
severe
> > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who
> >turn a
> > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent 
with
> > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary
> >Committee
> > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that
> >Justice
> > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the 
state
> > > >police
> > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful 
practice.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls 
upon the
> > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for
> >Justice
> > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of
> >senators
> > > >from
> > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been 
revealed
> > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's
> >hearings,
> > > >the
> > > > > >need for community control over police is now more acute 
than
> >ever.
> > > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes 
that
> > > > > >community control, including democratically elected 
civilian
> >police
> > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate 
crimes
> >of
> > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is 
already
> > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if 
they are
> > > >good
> > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 
732/514-0610
> > > > > >
> > > > > >-30-
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > >
> > >
> > > 
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1352
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 20:39:32
Subject:whitman backs verniero
Message:

             Standing by her man: Former New Jersey Gov. Christie 
Whitman expressed her continued support for the man at the
            center of the state's racial profiling controversy. 
Despite acting Gov. Donald T. DiFrancesco's call Thursday for the 
resignation of
            the former attorney general from the state Supreme Court 
bench, Whitman did not join the growing chorus asking for the ouster 
of
            one of her closest aides and the man she appointed to the 
bench.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1353
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 21:13:28
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

> the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
determination & 
> the theft of national resources.  your celebrated "modernism" is 
the 
> ideology of Trooper Profiling.

No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real value from one 
country and its transportation into another.  Loss of national 
sovereignty is incidental to it.

I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations in the U.S. and 
the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book and Huey 
Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say that if you like, 
but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and industrialization has 
long-since left the cities for the most part.  

What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are stealing national 
resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor power.  I'll agree 
to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a class question, 
not a race question.  


> 
> you have no national relation to sanford st.  however democracy 
means those 
> oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st & the US urban 
centers, 
> and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne Nations have the 
right to 
> politically & economically control those areas in which they are 
the 
> plurality. to determine their relationship to the US, which they 
have never 
> done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of all Black peoples 
in US.

Alright.  So you're talking about political control at the grassroots 
level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of *race*?  Why?

Do you extend this right to all local groups that identify themselves 
as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your brother's word) 
out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom want to form 
their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.  Should they 
be allowed to?  

Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of local government 
(returning rights to the states, to municipalities, what have you) 
has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say what you will 
about the United States federal government, but at least they 
enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More than what the 
state governments would have done.

For that matter, why do you want to divide the working class along 
race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain people are unique 
based strictly upon their connection to some kind of cultural 
heritage or land, something that that *outsiders* cannot understand, 
sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity garbage is what 
every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi Amin spouts before 
sending people to the camps.

Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?  Let's be real.



> 
> you should develop a community consciousness at sanford st & demand 
> community self-determination against j&j dictatorship, which is the 
heart of 
> the demand "community control". not "work with j&j to solve 
problems".

J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a community 
where people don't have power, and they'll exploit there.  Or better 
yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is your self-
determination, then?  That's why you need to have an international 
movement that unites the working class across all lines.  Class 
alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat imperialism, then we can 
talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we need something 
concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest of the 
proletariat.

> 
> you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction by fascist 
terror. the 
> "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 hayes-tilden 
scheme.  where 
> is the 40acres & mule?

Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than the return of 
power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the southern 
cracker who is about as modern flint knife.  

Face it.  If the United States government had enforced Reconstruction 
by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the U.S. army, that 
would have afforded them real local control and self-determination.  
Instead they passed it off for the states to decide who could have 
guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.  

How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you don't 
institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of federal force?  
What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it away because it 
does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?  

Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The line is drawn 
between the people who produce value, and those to reap the harvest.  
Not between black or white or geographical location.  Progress 
requires an ideological and political unity of the part of human-kind 
that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is the 
proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and real political 
freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You forget about 
the "religious" differences.  Save religion for history class about 
the middle ages.  Forget about color differences, because the idea 
that people are different based upon "race" is exactly the idea we 
want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of the 
superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being a part of 
the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.  Because you 
better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once redevelopment 
and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into enclaves in the 
suburbs.

We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the power of the 
bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by balkanizing 
the United States?

> 
> Black America thoroughly meets the definition of nation: common 
geographic 
> area, culture, history, developed economy, as put forward first by 
Joe 
> Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.

Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think about how Joe 
Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination for Lenin, and 
how he went and created an imperialist empire of satellites after the 
war.

> 
> self-determination & reparations for women against patriarchy!
> 
> self-determination & reparations for workers against capital!
> 
> people vs. imperialism
> 
> 
> 
> >From: jmluceno@e...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
> >
> >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
> >
> >So if I want to break off and form a country out of Sandford St. 
down
> >here, that's ok?
> >
> >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-determination.  I'm
> >not following.
> >
> >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm down with radical
> >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But where do you get
> >reparations out of this?
> >
> >And show me how rejecting national self-determination and 
reparations
> >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> >wrote:
> > > self-determination & reparations are basic democratic rights and
> >the only
> > > "concrete" political basis for national equality.
> > >
> > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> > >
> > > scratch a social democrat, find a white supremacist.
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > >
> > > >Joe,
> > > >
> > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not
> >convinced
> > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not
> >heard
> > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I 
can
> > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
> > > >
> > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement
> >about
> > > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came
> >up, I
> > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > >
> > > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot 
condone
> > > >national self-determination, especially not for the "black
> >nation."  I
> > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-
determination
> > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the
> >issue.
> > > >
> > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or 
the
> > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have 
never had
> > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it 
belongs
> >in a
> > > >press statement on police brutality, something we are against 
in
> >both
> > > >theory and practice?
> > > >
> > > >Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> >wrote:
> > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S 
CAMPAIGN
> > > > > >				Press Secretary
> > > > > >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick, 
NJ 08903
> > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S 
OUSTER
> > > > > >
> > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
> > > >Campaign,
> > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and 
their
> > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
> >nationalities
> > > >and
> > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly 
welcomes
> > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey 
State
> > > >Senate
> > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice 
Peter
> > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color, 
commits
> >a
> > > >hate
> > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and 
severe
> > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who
> >turn a
> > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent 
with
> > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary
> >Committee
> > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that
> >Justice
> > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the 
state
> > > >police
> > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful 
practice.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls 
upon the
> > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for
> >Justice
> > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of
> >senators
> > > >from
> > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been 
revealed
> > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's
> >hearings,
> > > >the
> > > > > >need for community control over police is now more acute 
than
> >ever.
> > > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes 
that
> > > > > >community control, including democratically elected 
civilian
> >police
> > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate 
crimes
> >of
> > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is 
already
> > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if 
they are
> > > >good
> > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 
732/514-0610
> > > > > >
> > > > > >-30-
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > >
> > >
> > > 
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1354
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-07 01:08:04
Subject:Re: [nbpc] listserve
Message:

1.]BUT FIGHT GLOBALIZATION?
2.]STOP WORLDWIDE EXPLOITATION?
3.]LIQUIDATE I.M.F.?
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1355
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-07 01:16:00
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> 
wrote:

> the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
determination & 
> the theft of national resources.  your celebrated "modernism" is 
the 
> ideology of Trooper Profiling.

You're not actually saying that every group that can be defined as 
a 'nation' has an inherent right to its own _nation-state_, are you?  

Are you thereby defending the nation-state on principle?  

- Jeremy








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1356
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-07 04:07:43
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

WHY DO YOU SAY THAT I AM LIAR?
BECAUSE SUPPORT A FEARLESS LEADER LIKE FRANK BRIGHT A DESIRABLE MAN
AMONG THE WORKING CLASS.
WHY DO YOU SAY THAT I AM A CON?
BECAUSE I AM A BLACK MAN WHO HAS SEEN AFFLICATION. BECAUSE I REFUSED TO
LET MY ENEMIES WITHOUT CAUSE HUNTED ME DOWN LIKE A BIRD. BECAUSE I
REFUSED TO LET THE LIPS OF MY ENEMIES  WHISPER AGAINST ME AND MY FRIEND
FRANK BRIGHT.
DID I SPEAK ILL OF YOU?
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1357
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-07 04:20:29
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

COMMUNISM HAVE NO PLACE IN MY LIFE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT ACCEPT JESUS. IF
JESUS IS NOT IN IT THEN I HAVE NO PART OF IT . AS FOR ME AND MY FAMILY
WE SERVE GOD. THE BIBLE SAY IT. GOD MEANT IT. I BELIEVE IT. THAT SETTLE
IT.
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1358
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-05 14:39:35
Subject:indy media outlet in NJ
Message:

FYI - Indepedent Media Center, New JERSEY

http://newjersey.indymedia.org
injmc@...

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1359
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-07 10:29:32
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

the theft of national "value" is incidental to the destruction of national 
"soveriegnty"?

stealing something from you is disconnected from denying your right to it?

imperialism (or any social relation) cannot be understood only economically, 
& not also necessarily politically.

the u.s. cannot control arab oil without 1st toppling national governments. 
else why eliminate allende?

it is a white supremacist position to deny the national oppression of Black 
America.  j&j steals from everyone equally?  nb Blacks/Latinos are not 
super-exploited/oppressed?

what is racial profiling? a class question only? was diallo obliterated for 
being poor only? how to explaing the lynching of james byrd by poor whites? 
any lynching? the denial of democratic rights, education, jobs? the vast, 
utter impoverishment of the Black Belt (geographic Nation) south?

u.s. imperialism does not merely steal labor power from Afro-America, but 
most definitely robs its national "value".  impedes its economic, political, 
& cultural development.  what is the relationship of benny goodman to jazz, 
of eminem to hiphop, of the nba to allen iverson?  who profit$ from these 
Black national markets?  sony?

if yr serious in understanding these relations, start with dubois "black 
reconstruction" & baraka's "black nation" or listen to some charles mingus. 
yr analysis now is that of the klan.


>From: jmluceno@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:13:28 -0000
>
> > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
>determination &
> > the theft of national resources.  your celebrated "modernism" is
>the
> > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
>
>No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real value from one
>country and its transportation into another.  Loss of national
>sovereignty is incidental to it.
>
>I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations in the U.S. and
>the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book and Huey
>Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say that if you like,
>but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and industrialization has
>long-since left the cities for the most part.
>
>What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are stealing national
>resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor power.  I'll agree
>to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a class question,
>not a race question.
>
>
> >
> > you have no national relation to sanford st.  however democracy
>means those
> > oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st & the US urban
>centers,
> > and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne Nations have the
>right to
> > politically & economically control those areas in which they are
>the
> > plurality. to determine their relationship to the US, which they
>have never
> > done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of all Black peoples
>in US.
>
>Alright.  So you're talking about political control at the grassroots
>level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of *race*?  Why?
>
>Do you extend this right to all local groups that identify themselves
>as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your brother's word)
>out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom want to form
>their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.  Should they
>be allowed to?
>
>Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of local government
>(returning rights to the states, to municipalities, what have you)
>has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say what you will
>about the United States federal government, but at least they
>enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More than what the
>state governments would have done.
>
>For that matter, why do you want to divide the working class along
>race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain people are unique
>based strictly upon their connection to some kind of cultural
>heritage or land, something that that *outsiders* cannot understand,
>sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity garbage is what
>every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi Amin spouts before
>sending people to the camps.
>
>Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?  Let's be real.
>
>
>
> >
> > you should develop a community consciousness at sanford st & demand
> > community self-determination against j&j dictatorship, which is the
>heart of
> > the demand "community control". not "work with j&j to solve
>problems".
>
>J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a community
>where people don't have power, and they'll exploit there.  Or better
>yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is your self-
>determination, then?  That's why you need to have an international
>movement that unites the working class across all lines.  Class
>alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat imperialism, then we can
>talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we need something
>concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest of the
>proletariat.
>
> >
> > you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction by fascist
>terror. the
> > "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 hayes-tilden
>scheme.  where
> > is the 40acres & mule?
>
>Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than the return of
>power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the southern
>cracker who is about as modern flint knife.
>
>Face it.  If the United States government had enforced Reconstruction
>by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the U.S. army, that
>would have afforded them real local control and self-determination.
>Instead they passed it off for the states to decide who could have
>guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.
>
>How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you don't
>institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of federal force?
>What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it away because it
>does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?
>
>Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The line is drawn
>between the people who produce value, and those to reap the harvest.
>Not between black or white or geographical location.  Progress
>requires an ideological and political unity of the part of human-kind
>that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is the
>proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and real political
>freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You forget about
>the "religious" differences.  Save religion for history class about
>the middle ages.  Forget about color differences, because the idea
>that people are different based upon "race" is exactly the idea we
>want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of the
>superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being a part of
>the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.  Because you
>better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once redevelopment
>and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into enclaves in the
>suburbs.
>
>We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the power of the
>bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by balkanizing
>the United States?
>
> >
> > Black America thoroughly meets the definition of nation: common
>geographic
> > area, culture, history, developed economy, as put forward first by
>Joe
> > Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.
>
>Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think about how Joe
>Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination for Lenin, and
>how he went and created an imperialist empire of satellites after the
>war.
>
> >
> > self-determination & reparations for women against patriarchy!
> >
> > self-determination & reparations for workers against capital!
> >
> > people vs. imperialism
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
> > >
> > >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
> > >
> > >So if I want to break off and form a country out of Sandford St.
>down
> > >here, that's ok?
> > >
> > >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-determination.  I'm
> > >not following.
> > >
> > >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm down with radical
> > >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But where do you get
> > >reparations out of this?
> > >
> > >And show me how rejecting national self-determination and
>reparations
> > >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
> > >
> > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> > >wrote:
> > > > self-determination & reparations are basic democratic rights and
> > >the only
> > > > "concrete" political basis for national equality.
> > > >
> > > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> > > >
> > > > scratch a social democrat, find a white supremacist.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >Joe,
> > > > >
> > > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not
> > >convinced
> > > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not
> > >heard
> > > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I
>can
> > > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
> > > > >
> > > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement
> > >about
> > > > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came
> > >up, I
> > > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > > >
> > > > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot
>condone
> > > > >national self-determination, especially not for the "black
> > >nation."  I
> > > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-
>determination
> > > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the
> > >issue.
> > > > >
> > > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or
>the
> > > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have
>never had
> > > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it
>belongs
> > >in a
> > > > >press statement on police brutality, something we are against
>in
> > >both
> > > > >theory and practice?
> > > > >
> > > > >Jim
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> > >wrote:
> > > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S
>CAMPAIGN
> > > > > > >				Press Secretary
> > > > > > >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick,
>NJ 08903
> > > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S
>OUSTER
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
> > > > >Campaign,
> > > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and
>their
> > > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
> > >nationalities
> > > > >and
> > > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly
>welcomes
> > > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey
>State
> > > > >Senate
> > > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice
>Peter
> > > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color,
>commits
> > >a
> > > > >hate
> > > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and
>severe
> > > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who
> > >turn a
> > > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent
>with
> > > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary
> > >Committee
> > > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that
> > >Justice
> > > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the
>state
> > > > >police
> > > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful
>practice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls
>upon the
> > > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for
> > >Justice
> > > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of
> > >senators
> > > > >from
> > > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been
>revealed
> > > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's
> > >hearings,
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >need for community control over police is now more acute
>than
> > >ever.
> > > > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes
>that
> > > > > > >community control, including democratically elected
>civilian
> > >police
> > > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate
>crimes
> > >of
> > > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is
>already
> > > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if
>they are
> > > > >good
> > > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley -
>732/514-0610
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >-30-
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1360
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-07 10:29:50
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

the theft of national "value" is incidental to the destruction of national 
"soveriegnty"?

stealing something from you is disconnected from denying your right to it?

imperialism (or any social relation) cannot be understood only economically, 
& not also necessarily politically.

the u.s. cannot control arab oil without 1st toppling national governments. 
else why eliminate allende?

it is a white supremacist position to deny the national oppression of Black 
America.  j&j steals from everyone equally?  nb Blacks/Latinos are not 
super-exploited/oppressed?

what is racial profiling? a class question only? was diallo obliterated for 
being poor only? how to explaing the lynching of james byrd by poor whites? 
any lynching? the denial of democratic rights, education, jobs? the vast, 
utter impoverishment of the Black Belt (geographic Nation) south?

u.s. imperialism does not merely steal labor power from Afro-America, but 
most definitely robs its national "value".  impedes its economic, political, 
& cultural development.  what is the relationship of benny goodman to jazz, 
of eminem to hiphop, of the nba to allen iverson?  who profit$ from these 
Black national markets?  sony?

if yr serious in understanding these relations, start with dubois "black 
reconstruction" & baraka's "black nation" or listen to some charles mingus. 
yr analysis now is that of the klan.


>From: jmluceno@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:13:28 -0000
>
> > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
>determination &
> > the theft of national resources.  your celebrated "modernism" is
>the
> > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
>
>No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real value from one
>country and its transportation into another.  Loss of national
>sovereignty is incidental to it.
>
>I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations in the U.S. and
>the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book and Huey
>Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say that if you like,
>but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and industrialization has
>long-since left the cities for the most part.
>
>What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are stealing national
>resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor power.  I'll agree
>to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a class question,
>not a race question.
>
>
> >
> > you have no national relation to sanford st.  however democracy
>means those
> > oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st & the US urban
>centers,
> > and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne Nations have the
>right to
> > politically & economically control those areas in which they are
>the
> > plurality. to determine their relationship to the US, which they
>have never
> > done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of all Black peoples
>in US.
>
>Alright.  So you're talking about political control at the grassroots
>level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of *race*?  Why?
>
>Do you extend this right to all local groups that identify themselves
>as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your brother's word)
>out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom want to form
>their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.  Should they
>be allowed to?
>
>Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of local government
>(returning rights to the states, to municipalities, what have you)
>has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say what you will
>about the United States federal government, but at least they
>enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More than what the
>state governments would have done.
>
>For that matter, why do you want to divide the working class along
>race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain people are unique
>based strictly upon their connection to some kind of cultural
>heritage or land, something that that *outsiders* cannot understand,
>sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity garbage is what
>every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi Amin spouts before
>sending people to the camps.
>
>Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?  Let's be real.
>
>
>
> >
> > you should develop a community consciousness at sanford st & demand
> > community self-determination against j&j dictatorship, which is the
>heart of
> > the demand "community control". not "work with j&j to solve
>problems".
>
>J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a community
>where people don't have power, and they'll exploit there.  Or better
>yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is your self-
>determination, then?  That's why you need to have an international
>movement that unites the working class across all lines.  Class
>alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat imperialism, then we can
>talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we need something
>concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest of the
>proletariat.
>
> >
> > you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction by fascist
>terror. the
> > "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 hayes-tilden
>scheme.  where
> > is the 40acres & mule?
>
>Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than the return of
>power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the southern
>cracker who is about as modern flint knife.
>
>Face it.  If the United States government had enforced Reconstruction
>by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the U.S. army, that
>would have afforded them real local control and self-determination.
>Instead they passed it off for the states to decide who could have
>guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.
>
>How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you don't
>institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of federal force?
>What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it away because it
>does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?
>
>Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The line is drawn
>between the people who produce value, and those to reap the harvest.
>Not between black or white or geographical location.  Progress
>requires an ideological and political unity of the part of human-kind
>that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is the
>proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and real political
>freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You forget about
>the "religious" differences.  Save religion for history class about
>the middle ages.  Forget about color differences, because the idea
>that people are different based upon "race" is exactly the idea we
>want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of the
>superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being a part of
>the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.  Because you
>better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once redevelopment
>and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into enclaves in the
>suburbs.
>
>We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the power of the
>bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by balkanizing
>the United States?
>
> >
> > Black America thoroughly meets the definition of nation: common
>geographic
> > area, culture, history, developed economy, as put forward first by
>Joe
> > Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.
>
>Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think about how Joe
>Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination for Lenin, and
>how he went and created an imperialist empire of satellites after the
>war.
>
> >
> > self-determination & reparations for women against patriarchy!
> >
> > self-determination & reparations for workers against capital!
> >
> > people vs. imperialism
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
> > >
> > >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
> > >
> > >So if I want to break off and form a country out of Sandford St.
>down
> > >here, that's ok?
> > >
> > >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-determination.  I'm
> > >not following.
> > >
> > >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm down with radical
> > >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But where do you get
> > >reparations out of this?
> > >
> > >And show me how rejecting national self-determination and
>reparations
> > >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
> > >
> > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> > >wrote:
> > > > self-determination & reparations are basic democratic rights and
> > >the only
> > > > "concrete" political basis for national equality.
> > > >
> > > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> > > >
> > > > scratch a social democrat, find a white supremacist.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >Joe,
> > > > >
> > > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not
> > >convinced
> > > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not
> > >heard
> > > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I
>can
> > > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
> > > > >
> > > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement
> > >about
> > > > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came
> > >up, I
> > > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > > >
> > > > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot
>condone
> > > > >national self-determination, especially not for the "black
> > >nation."  I
> > > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-
>determination
> > > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the
> > >issue.
> > > > >
> > > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or
>the
> > > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have
>never had
> > > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it
>belongs
> > >in a
> > > > >press statement on police brutality, something we are against
>in
> > >both
> > > > >theory and practice?
> > > > >
> > > > >Jim
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> > >wrote:
> > > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S
>CAMPAIGN
> > > > > > >				Press Secretary
> > > > > > >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick,
>NJ 08903
> > > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S
>OUSTER
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
> > > > >Campaign,
> > > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and
>their
> > > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
> > >nationalities
> > > > >and
> > > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly
>welcomes
> > > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey
>State
> > > > >Senate
> > > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice
>Peter
> > > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color,
>commits
> > >a
> > > > >hate
> > > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and
>severe
> > > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who
> > >turn a
> > > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent
>with
> > > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary
> > >Committee
> > > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that
> > >Justice
> > > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the
>state
> > > > >police
> > > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful
>practice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls
>upon the
> > > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for
> > >Justice
> > > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of
> > >senators
> > > > >from
> > > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been
>revealed
> > > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's
> > >hearings,
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >need for community control over police is now more acute
>than
> > >ever.
> > > > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes
>that
> > > > > > >community control, including democratically elected
>civilian
> > >police
> > > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate
>crimes
> > >of
> > > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is
>already
> > > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if
>they are
> > > > >good
> > > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley -
>732/514-0610
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >-30-
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1361
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-07 10:35:47
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

do you deny that every nation has the right to its own historical 
development without being impeded by (european) aggression/plunder?

of course every oppressed nation has the democratic right to its 
self-determined state.  to argue otherwise is to defend the imperialists.


>From: jagross66@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 05:16:00 -0000
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>wrote:
>
> > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
>determination &
> > the theft of national resources.  your celebrated "modernism" is
>the
> > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
>
>You're not actually saying that every group that can be defined as
>a 'nation' has an inherent right to its own _nation-state_, are you?
>
>Are you thereby defending the nation-state on principle?
>
>- Jeremy
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1362
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 11:57:25
Subject:First Melody, now Court Tavern
Message:

: City's night spot readies swan song


Published in the Home News Tribune 4/05/01
By CHRIS JORDAN
STAFF WRITER
NEW BRUNSWICK: The New Brunswick music community reacted in shock and 
disbelief yesterday to the news that the city's Court Tavern could be facing 
the wrecking ball.

In Hub City:
A look at the changes afoot.
Redevelopment of the area around Church and Spring streets could force owner 
Bob Albert Jr. to sell his Church Street club.

"It would be a huge blow to New Brunswick music scene, especially in light 
of the recent closing of the Melody (Bar)," said musician and promoter Mike 
Doktorski of East Brunswick.

The Melody Bar on French Street had built a national reputation for 
presenting cutting-edge music before closing last month because of a dispute 
between its two owners.

The Court Tavern has also been presenting live music for nearly 20 years.

"For me, the Court Tavern was the place I honed my craft," said the 
Carteret-raised Jim Babjak of the band The Smithereens. "That's where we 
ended up playing songs we didn't know, because they were requested by the 
audience. It kept me on my toes."

Melody co-owner Steve Flaks said yesterday he and his partner Cal Levine 
were entertaining four serious offers for the club from potential buyers who 
had either been to the club in the past or were affiliated with former 
Melody patrons.

The earliest the club could be reopened under new ownership is in August, 
Flaks said.

Both clubs were important elements in the revitalization of the city that 
began more than 20 years ago, observers said.

However, that importance may not have been recognized.

"From an artistic standpoint, the city has gone a long way to presenting a 
cultural persona across the state," Doktorski said. "But it seems like rock 
'n' roll doesn't occupy the same importance that's accorded to the other art 
forms."

The Court Tavern has historically presented up-and-coming bands as well as 
established national acts.

"Tangibly, the Court Tavern and the other music clubs bring in a population 
of people into town who are there to see shows, and they stop into 
restaurants for a bite to eat, or they go to the ice-cream parlors," 
Doktorski said. "Actually, I don't know if people who go to the Court Tavern 
are going to the ice-cream parlors."

Others said the Court Tavern's closing would be a sign that the city's music 
scene is waning.

"It's not looking too good," said musician Brett Neilley of Highland Park. 
"(The city fathers) don't recognize the importance of the live-music scene. 
They talk about revitalization and how the State Theatre puts them on the 
map, but there's a lot of great stuff going on that doesn't get their 
attention."

However, recorded dance music strikes a note with the city. The City Council 
approved the transfer last night of a liquor license from Jo-Barb 
Corporation to Platinum, a new club to be located at 13 Paterson St.

The upscale Manhattan-type club hopes to open in September, said Peter J. 
Gassaro, who owns the club with his father James V. Gassaro, both of North 
Brunswick.

The owners hope to bring disc jockeys in from New York City and create a 
modern, industrial look for the club, said the son, who compared Platinum to 
the Hunka Bunka Ballroom and Club Abyss in Sayreville in terms of music and 
dress code.

"We're trying to attract people who would come to New Brunswick to jump on 
the train to go to Hoboken. We're keeping them here in New Brunswick 
(instead)," Peter J. Gassaro said.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1364
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 00:28:25
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

louise/keith wrote:
"The discussion was actaully moving forward, and many times Jim made the 
case for Self-D without even meaning to."

questions to keith/louise(i don't know, it wasn't signed)-

is this to say that jim could not have also made the case for the klan 
without even meaning to? don't you think jim would be turned off by you 
stating that he is making the case for "Self-D".

what do you understand the klan's analysis of reperations/self determination 
to be? what do you understand the communists analysis of 
reperations/self-determination to be?

i do not agree with you stating that cliff's position is ultra-left and not 
embracing. before the summation cliff produced many venues for jim to 
explore and reflect with his position, no? and this was not cliff's only 
post about the discussion. but to not point out the essence of what someone 
is truly advocating for, and who their position serves is a serious mistake 
that it seems you have been making yourself. again your criticism with no 
mo' better example. i do not see it as "ultra-left" to point out reality, 
but rather to not do so, for any reason, is what threatens progress of 
revolutionaries.

keith/louise wrote:
   "The defeat of this ultra-left line and its rectification along 
Marxist-Leninist lines will be a geat force towards uniting revolutionarys 
in New Brunswick and in New Jersey and will go a long way in  defeating the 
local Social-Democrat liberal missionary line that dominates NJFO and the 
People's Campaign. If you can not maintain even an alliance with people like 
Jim and Curtis (to name but two examples) the movemnt will not grow, no one 
will be organized and we will have 5  organizations for four  people..."

your allaince with jim and curtis is the one that's up the river. so what 
you might be friends or whatever... the point is that you are not honest 
with these people, openly, about what their mistakes are and who they serve. 
(at least no where i've seen)

joe




>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1980 22:37:00 -0500
>
>I thought that this was a good discussion. I advocate Self D and 
>Repartaions and Jim
>and I have debated it in the past. The discussion was actaully moving 
>forward, and
>many times Jim made the case for Self-D without even meaning to. For 
>insatnce when he
>says that the overthrow of reconstruction resulted in "pre-modern classes" 
>taking
>control of the Soutrh. That is the point, the relationship of 
>Afro-Americans to the US
>is not even at the level that should be achieved in democratic anti-feudal
>revolutions. Self-D addresses that very point.
>However, to say that Jim's analysis is the same as the Klan is an 
>ultra-left error and
>a un- informed remark. First of all,  most people are against reparations 
>that's why
>we have to struggle for it; otherwise we would already have it. To say that 
>Jim's
>analysis is the same as the Klan (even though you did not call him a Klans 
>man) is
>counter-revolutionary because it disorganizes the people rather than 
>organize them.
>Instead of drawing revolutionary intellectuals and workers closer togther 
>towards
>unity around a common platform it pushes them away towards disunity.
>I would take it as an extreme insult if someone were to say I had a line 
>analgous to
>the Klan given that I identify as a revolutionary, why would you expect Jim 
>to do
>otherwise? How does saying he has a line like the Klan educate him or 
>change his mind
>or even just contribute meaningfully to the debate?
>This is one particular example of an ultra-left trend of which the attack 
>on Curtis is
>but another example. This line is sectarian because it creates an enemy 
>where there
>was/should/could be an ally.   The defeat of this ultra-left line and its
>rectification along Marxist-Leninist lines will be a geat force towards 
>uniting
>revolutionarys in New Brunswick and in New Jersey and will go a long way in 
>  defeating
>the local Social-Democrat liberal missionary line that dominates NJFO and 
>the People's
>Campaign. If you can not maintain even an alliance with people like Jim and 
>Curtis (to
>name but two examples) the movemnt will not grow, no one will be organized 
>and we will
>have 5  organizations for four  people. Discussion is a good vehicle to 
>bring
>ideological clarity and unity but if discussion is just an excuse to force 
>people to
>accept your line with verbal abuse it becomes a servant of imperialsim.
>
>cliff smith wrote:
>
> > the theft of national "value" is incidental to the destruction of 
>national
> > "soveriegnty"?
> >
> > stealing something from you is disconnected from denying your right to 
>it?
> >
> > imperialism (or any social relation) cannot be understood only 
>economically,
> > & not also necessarily politically.
> >
> > the u.s. cannot control arab oil without 1st toppling national 
>governments.
> > else why eliminate allende?
> >
> > it is a white supremacist position to deny the national oppression of 
>Black
> > America.  j&j steals from everyone equally?  nb Blacks/Latinos are not
> > super-exploited/oppressed?
> >
> > what is racial profiling? a class question only? was diallo obliterated 
>for
> > being poor only? how to explaing the lynching of james byrd by poor 
>whites?
> > any lynching? the denial of democratic rights, education, jobs? the 
>vast,
> > utter impoverishment of the Black Belt (geographic Nation) south?
> >
> > u.s. imperialism does not merely steal labor power from Afro-America, 
>but
> > most definitely robs its national "value".  impedes its economic, 
>political,
> > & cultural development.  what is the relationship of benny goodman to 
>jazz,
> > of eminem to hiphop, of the nba to allen iverson?  who profit$ from 
>these
> > Black national markets?  sony?
> >
> > if yr serious in understanding these relations, start with dubois "black
> > reconstruction" & baraka's "black nation" or listen to some charles 
>mingus.
> > yr analysis now is that of the klan.
> >
> > >From: jmluceno@...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:13:28 -0000
> > >
> > > > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
> > >determination &
> > > > the theft of national resources.  your celebrated "modernism" is
> > >the
> > > > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
> > >
> > >No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real value from one
> > >country and its transportation into another.  Loss of national
> > >sovereignty is incidental to it.
> > >
> > >I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations in the U.S. and
> > >the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book and Huey
> > >Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say that if you like,
> > >but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and industrialization has
> > >long-since left the cities for the most part.
> > >
> > >What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are stealing national
> > >resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor power.  I'll agree
> > >to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a class question,
> > >not a race question.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > you have no national relation to sanford st.  however democracy
> > >means those
> > > > oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st & the US urban
> > >centers,
> > > > and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne Nations have the
> > >right to
> > > > politically & economically control those areas in which they are
> > >the
> > > > plurality. to determine their relationship to the US, which they
> > >have never
> > > > done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of all Black peoples
> > >in US.
> > >
> > >Alright.  So you're talking about political control at the grassroots
> > >level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of *race*?  Why?
> > >
> > >Do you extend this right to all local groups that identify themselves
> > >as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your brother's word)
> > >out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom want to form
> > >their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.  Should they
> > >be allowed to?
> > >
> > >Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of local government
> > >(returning rights to the states, to municipalities, what have you)
> > >has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say what you will
> > >about the United States federal government, but at least they
> > >enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More than what the
> > >state governments would have done.
> > >
> > >For that matter, why do you want to divide the working class along
> > >race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain people are unique
> > >based strictly upon their connection to some kind of cultural
> > >heritage or land, something that that *outsiders* cannot understand,
> > >sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity garbage is what
> > >every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi Amin spouts before
> > >sending people to the camps.
> > >
> > >Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?  Let's be real.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > you should develop a community consciousness at sanford st & demand
> > > > community self-determination against j&j dictatorship, which is the
> > >heart of
> > > > the demand "community control". not "work with j&j to solve
> > >problems".
> > >
> > >J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a community
> > >where people don't have power, and they'll exploit there.  Or better
> > >yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is your self-
> > >determination, then?  That's why you need to have an international
> > >movement that unites the working class across all lines.  Class
> > >alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat imperialism, then we can
> > >talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we need something
> > >concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest of the
> > >proletariat.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction by fascist
> > >terror. the
> > > > "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 hayes-tilden
> > >scheme.  where
> > > > is the 40acres & mule?
> > >
> > >Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than the return of
> > >power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the southern
> > >cracker who is about as modern flint knife.
> > >
> > >Face it.  If the United States government had enforced Reconstruction
> > >by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the U.S. army, that
> > >would have afforded them real local control and self-determination.
> > >Instead they passed it off for the states to decide who could have
> > >guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.
> > >
> > >How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you don't
> > >institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of federal force?
> > >What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it away because it
> > >does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?
> > >
> > >Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The line is drawn
> > >between the people who produce value, and those to reap the harvest.
> > >Not between black or white or geographical location.  Progress
> > >requires an ideological and political unity of the part of human-kind
> > >that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is the
> > >proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and real political
> > >freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You forget about
> > >the "religious" differences.  Save religion for history class about
> > >the middle ages.  Forget about color differences, because the idea
> > >that people are different based upon "race" is exactly the idea we
> > >want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of the
> > >superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being a part of
> > >the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.  Because you
> > >better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once redevelopment
> > >and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into enclaves in the
> > >suburbs.
> > >
> > >We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the power of the
> > >bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by balkanizing
> > >the United States?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Black America thoroughly meets the definition of nation: common
> > >geographic
> > > > area, culture, history, developed economy, as put forward first by
> > >Joe
> > > > Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.
> > >
> > >Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think about how Joe
> > >Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination for Lenin, and
> > >how he went and created an imperialist empire of satellites after the
> > >war.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > self-determination & reparations for women against patriarchy!
> > > >
> > > > self-determination & reparations for workers against capital!
> > > >
> > > > people vs. imperialism
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
> > > > >
> > > > >So if I want to break off and form a country out of Sandford St.
> > >down
> > > > >here, that's ok?
> > > > >
> > > > >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-determination.  I'm
> > > > >not following.
> > > > >
> > > > >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm down with radical
> > > > >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But where do you get
> > > > >reparations out of this?
> > > > >
> > > > >And show me how rejecting national self-determination and
> > >reparations
> > > > >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > self-determination & reparations are basic democratic rights and
> > > > >the only
> > > > > > "concrete" political basis for national equality.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > scratch a social democrat, find a white supremacist.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Joe,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not
> > > > >convinced
> > > > > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not
> > > > >heard
> > > > > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I
> > >can
> > > > > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement
> > > > >about
> > > > > > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came
> > > > >up, I
> > > > > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot
> > >condone
> > > > > > >national self-determination, especially not for the "black
> > > > >nation."  I
> > > > > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-
> > >determination
> > > > > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the
> > > > >issue.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or
> > >the
> > > > > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have
> > >never had
> > > > > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it
> > >belongs
> > > > >in a
> > > > > > >press statement on police brutality, something we are against
> > >in
> > > > >both
> > > > > > >theory and practice?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Jim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >                           NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S
> > >CAMPAIGN
> > > > > > > > >                           Press Secretary
> > > > > > > > >                           P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick,
> > >NJ 08903
> > > > > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S
> > >OUSTER
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
> > > > > > >Campaign,
> > > > > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and
> > >their
> > > > > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
> > > > >nationalities
> > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly
> > >welcomes
> > > > > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey
> > >State
> > > > > > >Senate
> > > > > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice
> > >Peter
> > > > > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > > > > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color,
> > >commits
> > > > >a
> > > > > > >hate
> > > > > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and
> > >severe
> > > > > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who
> > > > >turn a
> > > > > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent
> > >with
> > > > > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary
> > > > >Committee
> > > > > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that
> > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the
> > >state
> > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful
> > >practice.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls
> > >upon the
> > > > > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for
> > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of
> > > > >senators
> > > > > > >from
> > > > > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   In light of the facts that have, at long last, been
> > >revealed
> > > > > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's
> > > > >hearings,
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >need for community control over police is now more acute
> > >than
> > > > >ever.
> > > > > > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes
> > >that
> > > > > > > > >community control, including democratically elected
> > >civilian
> > > > >police
> > > > > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate
> > >crimes
> > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   The minority caucus of the State Legislature is
> > >already
> > > > > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if
> > >they are
> > > > > > >good
> > > > > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley -
> > >732/514-0610
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >-30-
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> >
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> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
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> >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1365
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 01:43:42
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

What about liberation theology?

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., TRACYFORD1420@W... wrote:
> COMMUNISM HAVE NO PLACE IN MY LIFE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT ACCEPT 
JESUS. IF
> JESUS IS NOT IN IT THEN I HAVE NO PART OF IT . AS FOR ME AND MY 
FAMILY
> WE SERVE GOD. THE BIBLE SAY IT. GOD MEANT IT. I BELIEVE IT. THAT 
SETTLE
> IT.
> TRACY FORD
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1366
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 01:54:57
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

> the theft of national "value" is incidental to the destruction of 
national 
> "soveriegnty"?
> 
> stealing something from you is disconnected from denying your right 
to it?

It's not the essence of the phenomena.  It's not as important as the 
stuff below, though.

> 
> imperialism (or any social relation) cannot be understood only 
economically, 
> & not also necessarily politically.
> 
> the u.s. cannot control arab oil without 1st toppling national 
governments. 
> else why eliminate allende?
> 
> it is a white supremacist position to deny the national oppression 
of Black 
> America.  j&j steals from everyone equally?  nb Blacks/Latinos are 
not 
> super-exploited/oppressed?

Majority of the world =/= white, so yeah, multinational corporations 
exploit non-whites more than whites.  It's INCIDENTAL.

> 
> what is racial profiling? a class question only? was diallo 
obliterated for 
> being poor only? how to explaing the lynching of james byrd by poor 
whites? 
> any lynching? the denial of democratic rights, education, jobs? the 
vast, 
> utter impoverishment of the Black Belt (geographic Nation) south?

Then you make my argument.

You want to throw money at the problem with reparations?  How are you 
going to change the color of Diallo's skin w/ money?  How are you 
going to get rid of the hatred or fear in those cops' hearts with 
money?  

You've got a problem that you cannot just throw money at.  The 
ancestors of African Americans were enslaved.  How are you going to 
calculate the cost of slavery?  The effects of slavery now are 
qualitative; not quantitative.  It's a social problem that cannot be 
measured out in terms of dollar signs.  It's ultimately a question of 
consciousness, from what I can see.

How do you propose we handle the problem of racism?

> 
> u.s. imperialism does not merely steal labor power from Afro-
America, but 
> most definitely robs its national "value".  impedes its economic, 
political, 
> & cultural development.  what is the relationship of benny goodman 
to jazz, 
> of eminem to hiphop, of the nba to allen iverson?  who profit$ from 
these 
> Black national markets?  sony?
> 
> if yr serious in understanding these relations, start with 
dubois "black 
> reconstruction" & baraka's "black nation" or listen to some charles 
mingus. 
> yr analysis now is that of the klan.

Yeah, the Klan analyses society with Marx.  Mmmm.  Every Klansman I 
know has a big friggin bust of Karl Marx on his desk, along with Vlad 
Lenin.  Big socialists those klansmen.  Real champions of the cause 
of humanity.  

I ain't yer dog, sonny boy.  You want to base your idea of the nation 
on supposed shared cultural values and geographic location.  Where's 
your nation when the people comprising it no longer share a common 
geographical location?  If the trend is that blacks should leave the 
ghetto and integrate with the middle class (this is the determinate 
negation produced by the market system -- the ghettos are 
contingencies), then you cannot say that you are going to form a 
nation based upon the color of skin.

Again -- are you an internationalist or not?  Are you even 
revolutionary?  If so, how do you plan to link this struggle up to 
the greater struggle of international revolution of the working 
class?  Based on color?  I hope not.  Race is ephemeral enough, and 
you want to build a nation state on it?  In the United States?  Along 
what geographical boundaries?  The Raritan River? 

> 
> 
> >From: jmluceno@e...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:13:28 -0000
> >
> > > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
> >determination &
> > > the theft of national resources.  your celebrated "modernism" is
> >the
> > > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
> >
> >No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real value from one
> >country and its transportation into another.  Loss of national
> >sovereignty is incidental to it.
> >
> >I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations in the U.S. 
and
> >the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book and Huey
> >Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say that if you 
like,
> >but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and industrialization 
has
> >long-since left the cities for the most part.
> >
> >What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are stealing 
national
> >resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor power.  I'll 
agree
> >to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a class 
question,
> >not a race question.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > you have no national relation to sanford st.  however democracy
> >means those
> > > oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st & the US 
urban
> >centers,
> > > and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne Nations have the
> >right to
> > > politically & economically control those areas in which they are
> >the
> > > plurality. to determine their relationship to the US, which they
> >have never
> > > done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of all Black 
peoples
> >in US.
> >
> >Alright.  So you're talking about political control at the 
grassroots
> >level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of *race*?  
Why?
> >
> >Do you extend this right to all local groups that identify 
themselves
> >as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your brother's word)
> >out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom want to form
> >their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.  Should 
they
> >be allowed to?
> >
> >Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of local 
government
> >(returning rights to the states, to municipalities, what have you)
> >has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say what you 
will
> >about the United States federal government, but at least they
> >enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More than what the
> >state governments would have done.
> >
> >For that matter, why do you want to divide the working class along
> >race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain people are 
unique
> >based strictly upon their connection to some kind of cultural
> >heritage or land, something that that *outsiders* cannot 
understand,
> >sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity garbage is 
what
> >every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi Amin spouts 
before
> >sending people to the camps.
> >
> >Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?  Let's be 
real.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > you should develop a community consciousness at sanford st & 
demand
> > > community self-determination against j&j dictatorship, which is 
the
> >heart of
> > > the demand "community control". not "work with j&j to solve
> >problems".
> >
> >J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a community
> >where people don't have power, and they'll exploit there.  Or 
better
> >yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is your self-
> >determination, then?  That's why you need to have an international
> >movement that unites the working class across all lines.  Class
> >alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat imperialism, then we can
> >talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we need 
something
> >concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest of the
> >proletariat.
> >
> > >
> > > you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction by fascist
> >terror. the
> > > "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 hayes-tilden
> >scheme.  where
> > > is the 40acres & mule?
> >
> >Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than the return of
> >power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the southern
> >cracker who is about as modern flint knife.
> >
> >Face it.  If the United States government had enforced 
Reconstruction
> >by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the U.S. army, 
that
> >would have afforded them real local control and self-determination.
> >Instead they passed it off for the states to decide who could have
> >guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.
> >
> >How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you don't
> >institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of federal force?
> >What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it away because 
it
> >does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?
> >
> >Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The line is drawn
> >between the people who produce value, and those to reap the 
harvest.
> >Not between black or white or geographical location.  Progress
> >requires an ideological and political unity of the part of human-
kind
> >that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is the
> >proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and real 
political
> >freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You forget about
> >the "religious" differences.  Save religion for history class about
> >the middle ages.  Forget about color differences, because the idea
> >that people are different based upon "race" is exactly the idea we
> >want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of the
> >superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being a part of
> >the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.  Because you
> >better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once redevelopment
> >and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into enclaves in 
the
> >suburbs.
> >
> >We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the power of the
> >bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by balkanizing
> >the United States?
> >
> > >
> > > Black America thoroughly meets the definition of nation: common
> >geographic
> > > area, culture, history, developed economy, as put forward first 
by
> >Joe
> > > Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.
> >
> >Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think about how Joe
> >Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination for Lenin, 
and
> >how he went and created an imperialist empire of satellites after 
the
> >war.
> >
> > >
> > > self-determination & reparations for women against patriarchy!
> > >
> > > self-determination & reparations for workers against capital!
> > >
> > > people vs. imperialism
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
> > > >
> > > >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
> > > >
> > > >So if I want to break off and form a country out of Sandford 
St.
> >down
> > > >here, that's ok?
> > > >
> > > >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-determination.  
I'm
> > > >not following.
> > > >
> > > >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm down with 
radical
> > > >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But where do you 
get
> > > >reparations out of this?
> > > >
> > > >And show me how rejecting national self-determination and
> >reparations
> > > >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
> > > >
> > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" 
<cliffsmith69@h...>
> > > >wrote:
> > > > > self-determination & reparations are basic democratic 
rights and
> > > >the only
> > > > > "concrete" political basis for national equality.
> > > > >
> > > > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> > > > >
> > > > > scratch a social democrat, find a white supremacist.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Joe,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am 
not
> > > >convinced
> > > > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I 
have not
> > > >heard
> > > > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only 
arguments I
> >can
> > > > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against 
it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a 
statement
> > > >about
> > > > > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate 
came
> > > >up, I
> > > > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot
> >condone
> > > > > >national self-determination, especially not for the "black
> > > >nation."  I
> > > > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-
> >determination
> > > > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over 
the
> > > >issue.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign 
or
> >the
> > > > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have
> >never had
> > > > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it
> >belongs
> > > >in a
> > > > > >press statement on police brutality, something we are 
against
> >in
> > > >both
> > > > > >theory and practice?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Jim
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" 
<can_bush@h...>
> > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black 
Nation!??
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S
> >CAMPAIGN
> > > > > > > >				Press Secretary
> > > > > > > >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick,
> >NJ 08903
> > > > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S
> >OUSTER
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick 
People's
> > > > > >Campaign,
> > > > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and
> >their
> > > > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
> > > >nationalities
> > > > > >and
> > > > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement 
today:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly
> >welcomes
> > > > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey
> >State
> > > > > >Senate
> > > > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice
> >Peter
> > > > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > > > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color,
> >commits
> > > >a
> > > > > >hate
> > > > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and
> >severe
> > > > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their 
superiors who
> > > >turn a
> > > > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent
> >with
> > > > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate 
Judiciary
> > > >Committee
> > > > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, 
that
> > > >Justice
> > > > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in 
the
> >state
> > > > > >police
> > > > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful
> >practice.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls
> >upon the
> > > > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution 
calling for
> > > >Justice
> > > > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of
> > > >senators
> > > > > >from
> > > > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been
> >revealed
> > > > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's
> > > >hearings,
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > > >need for community control over police is now more 
acute
> >than
> > > >ever.
> > > > > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and 
believes
> >that
> > > > > > > >community control, including democratically elected
> >civilian
> > > >police
> > > > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate
> >crimes
> > > >of
> > > > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is
> >already
> > > > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if
> >they are
> > > > > >good
> > > > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley -
> >732/514-0610
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >-30-
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > 
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > >
> > >
> > > 
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1367
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 05:18:27
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> 
wrote:

> do you deny that every nation has the right to its own historical 
> development without being impeded by (european) aggression/plunder?

That depends upon what the people grouped together as / within that 
nation want, correct?  What if there is disagreement as to what is 
properly the nation's 'history' or properly the goal of the 
nation's 'development'?  There have been plenty of people like 
Mobutu, making utterly bogus claims about 'cultural self-
determination' while robbing their country blind. 

> of course every oppressed nation has the democratic right to its 
> self-determined state.  to argue otherwise is to defend the        
> imperialists.

Who draws the line that constitutes the boundaries of an " oppressed 
nation" 's identity?  This seems to make it possible for the 
bureaucrats, representatives, or dictator(s) in charge of 
an 'oppressed' nation's (newly founded ...) state to claim an 
unwarranted moral authority.  Where does the right to self-
determination end?  

Irrespective:  So far, in the 20th century, the nation-state has a 
horribly bad record.  In fact, the people who still defend state 
sovereignity at all on political principle are largely of the more or 
less neo-Fascist Right.  (The WTO is more of an example of people 
possessing the idiotic belief that politics can be collapsed into 
economics -- the neoliberal flipside of what Communists called 'E 
conomism').

TTYL,

Jeremy













-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1368
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-07 10:35:57
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

do you deny that every nation has the right to its own historical 
development without being impeded by (european) aggression/plunder?

of course every oppressed nation has the democratic right to its 
self-determined state.  to argue otherwise is to defend the imperialists.


>From: jagross66@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 05:16:00 -0000
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>wrote:
>
> > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
>determination &
> > the theft of national resources.  your celebrated "modernism" is
>the
> > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
>
>You're not actually saying that every group that can be defined as
>a 'nation' has an inherent right to its own _nation-state_, are you?
>
>Are you thereby defending the nation-state on principle?
>
>- Jeremy
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1369
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 14:08:00
Subject:Re: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
Message:

Tom- a couple things:  With all of these artist on the Court Tavern 
grapevine, and the certainty of massive exposure to the plight of the Court 
Tavern this will bring, it appears to be a golden opportunity to link up 
with the community groups that are struggling for their neighborhoods 
against the same wrecking ball.  In know that the NB Peoples' Campaign has  
been doing alot of work in this area: we have relations with vocal 
residents' groups & NBPC members have been a regular voice at city council 
meetings on the issue, etc.  So keep me abreast of the situation as it 
develops.  For starters, I can ask the NBPC for a statement of support/press 
release for the Court Tavern & local progressive culture.  I'll wait for 
your say-so.

Matthew (973) 824-2949


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Thomas Murphy" <thomasbmurphy67@...>
To: vivaohio@...
Subject: Re: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:39:22 -0400

Ok, to reply to your question about what we should do, we already have been 
discussing ideas amongst ourselves to rally supprot for our little home in 
NB. The only thing that I wanna know, before we get so involved in it, does 
Bobby want to sll it, or not???

I spoke with Mark the doorman from the Court, and he thought this might be 
the case, but we of course really have no idea. If Bobby wants support, he 
will get it. We plan on contacting every artist, who has performed at the 
Court, including artists who are now successful, and have PR power, and 
noteriety. Everyone who has come here past and present, etc....We also plan 
on rallying support from the local business owners in town, and other rock n 
roll, and artistic establishments in the state.

Of course this may not be enough, but perhaps if the new building will go up 
because the town will claim eminant domain, Bobby did say in the todays 
article he would relocate if it was within the immediate downtown area, so 
of coure the ROCK may carry on.......

We will see.....

BTW State Senator Lynch, as in former Mayor of NB is staying here in the 
hospital.....


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>To: murphman6000@..., waynecosney@..., 
>traceyX@..., Spiago@..., star@..., gocreepgo@..., 
>Rhinoqueen420@..., deem.ohm@..., mike@..., 
>mike@..., imogene615@..., mwkrunner@..., 
>QueenMP1@..., GargoyleCornhole@..., l.hyslop@..., 
>celtgirl1114@..., kvt@..., doublej66@..., 
>jillybee@..., JMcmanemin@..., sackblabbath@..., 
>HyprPunk24@..., h.luvuna@..., GCarmen@..., 
>gkar@..., galaxygirl420@..., eshaneson@..., 
>eric@..., edwordking@..., deanrocks@..., 
>cgascoyne@..., blkshep@..., lumous1@..., 
>bklein9104@..., anya243@..., ADmunin@..., 
>pensandgifts@..., almuzer@...
>Subject: Re: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
>Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 16:39:17
>
>
>Just a quick note on this impending disaster for local culture in NB:
>
>
>One of the very first cultural experiences that I had when I first moved to
>New Brunswick (following a year long motorcycle journey across the country)
>was a deeply moving memorial service at the Court Tavern for some guy
>everyone was grieving for named Mark Bradley.  They talked about him like 
>he
>was the local Bob Dylan.  I can still clearly remember the feeling I had
>when I walked into the Court for the first time & one of his close friends
>whose name I never got was sitting in an old barber's chair sobbing and
>asking the wind "Why couldn't it have been me?..."  For the next few years 
>I
>spent getting active in community organizing & setting up fund raising
>events (remember 77 Central?!), I met various and sundry artists & 
>musicians
>who knew and would talk about Mark the mistrel, the songwriter, the cook,
>the friend--and when the CD came out, I finally had a glimpse of what
>everyone was missing so deeply.  There was a spirit there, and a
>consiousness...an awareness and a song.  Mark Bradley, though I never met
>him, made my life in NB have a meaning and purpose that it might never have
>had otherwise.  I still shed a tear when I think about him like this, & I
>never even met him.  Maybe he represents to me a world that could be and
>should be but isn't and sometimes that world seems to come within reach,
>while other times it seems to be slipping away into some primordial
>mist........  Now, the thought of the Court Tavern--where this all began 
>for
>me, and probably so many other in their own way--the thought of it going
>under the recking ball so that those god-damned lifeless corporate zombies
>can put up another one of their sickening institutional pink & mauve
>frankenstein buildings makes me numb!  We see it all around us in NB.
>Everytime I go back to visit, I see another block that's been closed off or
>bulldozed & another lego development is going up...& I know that there used
>to be a community there with real people who were living real lives, & I
>wonder where they go.  So now maybe it's coming home for me and many of you
>who always had somewhere to go to in NB to see a familiar face.  & my
>question is, what are we going to do about it?  I don't have any easy
>answers, but I would say that people need to start thinking really hard out
>loud about if we want to sit back and watch it all slip into the mist...or
>if we are going to defend one of the last real spaces that we have left!
>
>"They're going to feel the fire, and they'll damn sure feel the heat,
>when the middle of the roaders take the middle of the street!"
>
>             -the late and timeless Mark Bradely
>
>...& in the last words of Eliot Katz's tribute poem to Mark:
>
>               "Down with the Multinationals!"
>
>--Matthew Smith
>
>
>----original message-----
>
>From: Tom Murphy
>Subject: First the Melody, and now maybe The Court Tavern????
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:17:35 -0400
>
>For everyone who might be interested to know.....
>
>
>http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,376861,00.html
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1370
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 10:03:02
Subject:re: reperations and self-determination
Message:

jim, do you agree that slaves should be repaid for slavery? do you think 
workers should be repaid for exploitation? do you think students of 
segregation should be repaid for education?

when you first posted that there are some arguements that you can agree
with, but they can be beat by arguements countering it. (it being
reperations and self-determination) can you explain the arguements that you 
support without bringing up the better counters? i want to understand what 
you think.

joe
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1371
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 11:12:55
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

jim you are dangerously wrong. besides your incorrect intellect, what the 
hell is your problem with reperations and self-determination? these are 
democratic slogans/positions and to argue them is only to strengthen 
imperialism and anti-democratic forces. you claim to represent peoples' 
democracy, but this arguement puts you far from that. the black nation and 
all oppressed nations have organized, sometimes successfully, with these 
positions of reperations/self-determination. who are you to say these 
NATIONS are wrong, can you explain? it seems that i would expect this 
position from sucker soaries or other right wingers, no one who claims to 
support peoples' democracy can simotaneously stand against reperations and 
self-determination.

keith do you think that this is just some social club? we have work to do 
and you are behind the ball. how can you allow for this position to not to 
be hammered, and then turn on those that work to expose the very serious 
errors in it. pardon me, but these kids are getting shot up! east orange cop 
empties two clips at teenagers after his partner shot himself and claimed 
the kids did it. to argue against racist profiling and not put forward 
reperations and self-determination is to limit yourself to the position of 
the republicans. to argue against racist profiling and simotaneously argue 
against democratic rights of reperations and self-determination is to just 
support racist profiling to maybe just a slighter level. "ok boys, let's 
stop shooting them, we'll suffice to control every other facet of their 
nation, ie. education, culture, jobs, housing, language." but truely, the 
lynching will never stop under these conditions, do you agree keith?

joe

>From: jmluceno@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 05:54:57 -0000
>
> > the theft of national "value" is incidental to the destruction of
>national
> > "soveriegnty"?
> >
> > stealing something from you is disconnected from denying your right
>to it?
>
>It's not the essence of the phenomena.  It's not as important as the
>stuff below, though.
>
> >
> > imperialism (or any social relation) cannot be understood only
>economically,
> > & not also necessarily politically.
> >
> > the u.s. cannot control arab oil without 1st toppling national
>governments.
> > else why eliminate allende?
> >
> > it is a white supremacist position to deny the national oppression
>of Black
> > America.  j&j steals from everyone equally?  nb Blacks/Latinos are
>not
> > super-exploited/oppressed?
>
>Majority of the world =/= white, so yeah, multinational corporations
>exploit non-whites more than whites.  It's INCIDENTAL.
>
> >
> > what is racial profiling? a class question only? was diallo
>obliterated for
> > being poor only? how to explaing the lynching of james byrd by poor
>whites?
> > any lynching? the denial of democratic rights, education, jobs? the
>vast,
> > utter impoverishment of the Black Belt (geographic Nation) south?
>
>Then you make my argument.
>
>You want to throw money at the problem with reparations?  How are you
>going to change the color of Diallo's skin w/ money?  How are you
>going to get rid of the hatred or fear in those cops' hearts with
>money?
>
>You've got a problem that you cannot just throw money at.  The
>ancestors of African Americans were enslaved.  How are you going to
>calculate the cost of slavery?  The effects of slavery now are
>qualitative; not quantitative.  It's a social problem that cannot be
>measured out in terms of dollar signs.  It's ultimately a question of
>consciousness, from what I can see.
>
>How do you propose we handle the problem of racism?
>
> >
> > u.s. imperialism does not merely steal labor power from Afro-
>America, but
> > most definitely robs its national "value".  impedes its economic,
>political,
> > & cultural development.  what is the relationship of benny goodman
>to jazz,
> > of eminem to hiphop, of the nba to allen iverson?  who profit$ from
>these
> > Black national markets?  sony?
> >
> > if yr serious in understanding these relations, start with
>dubois "black
> > reconstruction" & baraka's "black nation" or listen to some charles
>mingus.
> > yr analysis now is that of the klan.
>
>Yeah, the Klan analyses society with Marx.  Mmmm.  Every Klansman I
>know has a big friggin bust of Karl Marx on his desk, along with Vlad
>Lenin.  Big socialists those klansmen.  Real champions of the cause
>of humanity.
>
>I ain't yer dog, sonny boy.  You want to base your idea of the nation
>on supposed shared cultural values and geographic location.  Where's
>your nation when the people comprising it no longer share a common
>geographical location?  If the trend is that blacks should leave the
>ghetto and integrate with the middle class (this is the determinate
>negation produced by the market system -- the ghettos are
>contingencies), then you cannot say that you are going to form a
>nation based upon the color of skin.
>
>Again -- are you an internationalist or not?  Are you even
>revolutionary?  If so, how do you plan to link this struggle up to
>the greater struggle of international revolution of the working
>class?  Based on color?  I hope not.  Race is ephemeral enough, and
>you want to build a nation state on it?  In the United States?  Along
>what geographical boundaries?  The Raritan River?
>
> >
> >
> > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:13:28 -0000
> > >
> > > > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
> > >determination &
> > > > the theft of national resources.  your celebrated "modernism" is
> > >the
> > > > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
> > >
> > >No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real value from one
> > >country and its transportation into another.  Loss of national
> > >sovereignty is incidental to it.
> > >
> > >I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations in the U.S.
>and
> > >the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book and Huey
> > >Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say that if you
>like,
> > >but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and industrialization
>has
> > >long-since left the cities for the most part.
> > >
> > >What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are stealing
>national
> > >resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor power.  I'll
>agree
> > >to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a class
>question,
> > >not a race question.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > you have no national relation to sanford st.  however democracy
> > >means those
> > > > oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st & the US
>urban
> > >centers,
> > > > and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne Nations have the
> > >right to
> > > > politically & economically control those areas in which they are
> > >the
> > > > plurality. to determine their relationship to the US, which they
> > >have never
> > > > done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of all Black
>peoples
> > >in US.
> > >
> > >Alright.  So you're talking about political control at the
>grassroots
> > >level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of *race*?
>Why?
> > >
> > >Do you extend this right to all local groups that identify
>themselves
> > >as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your brother's word)
> > >out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom want to form
> > >their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.  Should
>they
> > >be allowed to?
> > >
> > >Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of local
>government
> > >(returning rights to the states, to municipalities, what have you)
> > >has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say what you
>will
> > >about the United States federal government, but at least they
> > >enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More than what the
> > >state governments would have done.
> > >
> > >For that matter, why do you want to divide the working class along
> > >race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain people are
>unique
> > >based strictly upon their connection to some kind of cultural
> > >heritage or land, something that that *outsiders* cannot
>understand,
> > >sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity garbage is
>what
> > >every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi Amin spouts
>before
> > >sending people to the camps.
> > >
> > >Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?  Let's be
>real.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > you should develop a community consciousness at sanford st &
>demand
> > > > community self-determination against j&j dictatorship, which is
>the
> > >heart of
> > > > the demand "community control". not "work with j&j to solve
> > >problems".
> > >
> > >J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a community
> > >where people don't have power, and they'll exploit there.  Or
>better
> > >yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is your self-
> > >determination, then?  That's why you need to have an international
> > >movement that unites the working class across all lines.  Class
> > >alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat imperialism, then we can
> > >talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we need
>something
> > >concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest of the
> > >proletariat.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction by fascist
> > >terror. the
> > > > "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 hayes-tilden
> > >scheme.  where
> > > > is the 40acres & mule?
> > >
> > >Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than the return of
> > >power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the southern
> > >cracker who is about as modern flint knife.
> > >
> > >Face it.  If the United States government had enforced
>Reconstruction
> > >by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the U.S. army,
>that
> > >would have afforded them real local control and self-determination.
> > >Instead they passed it off for the states to decide who could have
> > >guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.
> > >
> > >How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you don't
> > >institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of federal force?
> > >What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it away because
>it
> > >does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?
> > >
> > >Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The line is drawn
> > >between the people who produce value, and those to reap the
>harvest.
> > >Not between black or white or geographical location.  Progress
> > >requires an ideological and political unity of the part of human-
>kind
> > >that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is the
> > >proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and real
>political
> > >freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You forget about
> > >the "religious" differences.  Save religion for history class about
> > >the middle ages.  Forget about color differences, because the idea
> > >that people are different based upon "race" is exactly the idea we
> > >want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of the
> > >superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being a part of
> > >the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.  Because you
> > >better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once redevelopment
> > >and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into enclaves in
>the
> > >suburbs.
> > >
> > >We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the power of the
> > >bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by balkanizing
> > >the United States?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Black America thoroughly meets the definition of nation: common
> > >geographic
> > > > area, culture, history, developed economy, as put forward first
>by
> > >Joe
> > > > Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.
> > >
> > >Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think about how Joe
> > >Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination for Lenin,
>and
> > >how he went and created an imperialist empire of satellites after
>the
> > >war.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > self-determination & reparations for women against patriarchy!
> > > >
> > > > self-determination & reparations for workers against capital!
> > > >
> > > > people vs. imperialism
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
> > > > >
> > > > >So if I want to break off and form a country out of Sandford
>St.
> > >down
> > > > >here, that's ok?
> > > > >
> > > > >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-determination.
>I'm
> > > > >not following.
> > > > >
> > > > >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm down with
>radical
> > > > >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But where do you
>get
> > > > >reparations out of this?
> > > > >
> > > > >And show me how rejecting national self-determination and
> > >reparations
> > > > >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith"
><cliffsmith69@h...>
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > self-determination & reparations are basic democratic
>rights and
> > > > >the only
> > > > > > "concrete" political basis for national equality.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > scratch a social democrat, find a white supremacist.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Joe,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am
>not
> > > > >convinced
> > > > > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I
>have not
> > > > >heard
> > > > > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only
>arguments I
> > >can
> > > > > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against
>it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a
>statement
> > > > >about
> > > > > > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate
>came
> > > > >up, I
> > > > > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot
> > >condone
> > > > > > >national self-determination, especially not for the "black
> > > > >nation."  I
> > > > > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-
> > >determination
> > > > > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over
>the
> > > > >issue.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign
>or
> > >the
> > > > > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have
> > >never had
> > > > > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it
> > >belongs
> > > > >in a
> > > > > > >press statement on police brutality, something we are
>against
> > >in
> > > > >both
> > > > > > >theory and practice?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Jim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
><can_bush@h...>
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black
>Nation!??
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S
> > >CAMPAIGN
> > > > > > > > >				Press Secretary
> > > > > > > > >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick,
> > >NJ 08903
> > > > > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S
> > >OUSTER
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick
>People's
> > > > > > >Campaign,
> > > > > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and
> > >their
> > > > > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
> > > > >nationalities
> > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement
>today:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly
> > >welcomes
> > > > > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey
> > >State
> > > > > > >Senate
> > > > > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice
> > >Peter
> > > > > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > > > > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color,
> > >commits
> > > > >a
> > > > > > >hate
> > > > > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and
> > >severe
> > > > > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their
>superiors who
> > > > >turn a
> > > > > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent
> > >with
> > > > > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate
>Judiciary
> > > > >Committee
> > > > > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction,
>that
> > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in
>the
> > >state
> > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful
> > >practice.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls
> > >upon the
> > > > > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution
>calling for
> > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of
> > > > >senators
> > > > > > >from
> > > > > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been
> > >revealed
> > > > > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's
> > > > >hearings,
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >need for community control over police is now more
>acute
> > >than
> > > > >ever.
> > > > > > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and
>believes
> > >that
> > > > > > > > >community control, including democratically elected
> > >civilian
> > > > >police
> > > > > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate
> > >crimes
> > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is
> > >already
> > > > > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if
> > >they are
> > > > > > >good
> > > > > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley -
> > >732/514-0610
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >-30-
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1372
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-04 15:10:04
Subject:[nbpc] Re: Meeting with Mosely
Message:

(Snicker...shrug)...while Joe makes it difficult to defend him, I will 
maintain that it is the ABSENCE of REASONED, CLEAR-HEADED, & SCIENTIFIC 
DEBATE & ANALYSIS, that makes absurdity reign...


----Original Message Follows----
From: can_bush@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Re: Meeting with Mosely
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:51:16 -0000

curtis aspires to be the next deforest soaries! when soaries came on
the seen following the potts murder, he was quoting malcolm x and other
black power activists, now he is covering for wHitman and Verneiro for
racist profiling, while at the same time jacking funds for black
cultural threatres as the Secratary of State.  where is the coalition
for police brutality and curtis' "working class" analysis of any of
this? he still hasn't even taken back his initial proposal to work with
J&J to solve community problems. the problem with the community is J&
J!!!! and its backward ethnic cleansing termed "re-development". but
no, curtis "wants to work with them to solve a drug crisis", what kind
of "working class" analysis is that? what about a march for jobs and a
living wage, the right to an education, and childcare fascilities?
those are the working class issues, not jumping into the lap of J&J.
curtis tries to get it off that skunk soaries is a "religous leader",
what kind of statement is that? what a leader! what's next, hitler is
my religous leader... bang your dead!

the only reasons the nbpc would want myself off this list is because
they canoot argue me. otherwise they would smartly use the opportunity
to prove my mistakes and teach everyone else valuble leasons about
"working with republicans is actually the right thing to do..." -x &
too many others
the other reason might be because of the peoples' campaigns ineptitude
in the local struggle. run a camaign, that embraced those that dissed
its own platform, and then barely get involved, if at all, in any
ongoing community struggles. "ok everyone let's retreat to the
suburbs." - x,  campaign geru

actions speak louder than words. why be worried about what i have to
say, you all got everything under control... right?

joe


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
 > As I've just joined the Coalition for Justice egroup list, I am unclear 
as
 > to why this exchange is taking place here as opposed to the NB Peoples'
 > Campaign group list...nothing against airing out views widely, but it 
would
 > seem that PC members would benefit from the dialogue, & that CFJ members 
are
 > likely unaware of the particulars.
 >
 > (Otherwise-- I think that it would be very benificial for this proposed
 > meeting with Joe Mosely to take place...as much as I disagree with Joe &
 > BOL/SWORD's portrayal of Curtis Warren as an right-wing, opportunistic,
 > imperialist, infiltrator (sigh), my concerns about their expulsion have 
been
 > shifted into alarm when I learned that there was a vote to remove them 
from
 > the Peoples Campaign egroup list...among the reasons sited was that this
 > domain is the "intellectual property" of the NBPC...if ever I've heard a
 > violation of basic democratic principles (!) this purely individualistic 
&
 > bourgeois concept is it.  Unfortunately, I was not at the meeting to 
voice
 > my objections, but I feel it's a dangerous road to travel down when 
banning
 > people becomes a substitute for struggling over the ideas in a coherent 
and
 > scientific way...remember WBAI?!
 >
 > In the Struggle for Unity--Matthew Smith
 >
 >
 > ----Original Message Follows----
 > From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
 > Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@y...
 > To: coalitionforjustice@y...
 > Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
 > Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:30:39 -0400
 >
 > name the time mosley. others should be made aware also, but the 
discussion
 > should stay focused on the expulsion of myself, cliff and others from the
 > nbpc which was/is lead by xavier. i will accept no rules that embrace the
 > peoples' enemies.
 >
 > republicans in the garbage can!
 >
 > joe
 >
 >
 >  >From: "Joseph Mosley" <joemosley1@m...>
 >  >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@y...
 >  >To: "Coalitionfor Justice" <coalitionforjustice@y...>,	"Tom
 >  >DeGloma" <tdegloma@h...>,	<Xavier.hansen@a...>
 >  >Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
 >  >Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:08:44 -0400
 >  >
 >  >I believe that you are on the right track Joe, but never forget that at
 >  >times we can be our own worst enemy. We may disagree on procedural 
matters
 >  >but our goals must be clearly defined and supported by all.
 >  >
 >  >At last week's meeting of the Peoples Campaign both Tom Degloma and 
Xavier
 >  >Hansen said that you and your brother are welcome to return if you 
agree
 > to
 >  >abide by the rules. They say that you know what these rules are. I did 
not
 >  >ask because I did not want to hear their version, neither do I want to
 > hear
 >  >your version. I want to be as neutral as possible. What I would like to
 >  >know is , are these rules acceptable to you and Cliff? If they are not,
 >  >could the five of us sit down somewhere and discuss the issue or 
issues?
 >  >
 >  >Feel free to call on me any time.
 >  >
 >  >Peace,
 >  >
 >  >JoeMosley
 >  >745-2602
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >----- Original Message -----
 >  >From: can_bush@h...
 >  >Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:39 PM
 >  >To: coalitionforjustice@y...
 >  >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >in the form of an advanced political/ideological position the CFJ must
 >  >advance on the present list of demands to call for reparations and
 >  >self-determination for the black nation. this struggle against racist
 >  >profiling will never put the CFJ on the offensive without these two
 >  >demands being main slogans and organizing tools. how many people are
 >  >going to march to reopen the investigation into Earl Faison's death?
 >  >not that it shouldn't be a demand, but the coalition must take the
 >  >particular to the general and then lead to other particulars in order
 >  >to be embraced by the majority of people.
 >  >
 >  >for example the state police shoot up van of black youth (particular -
 >  >so people march against racist profiling). state police shoot up black
 >  >youth because they are run by white supremacists, so is every
 >  >institution in the nation (general - so people march against every
 >  >white supremacist institution, as the CFJ can present it). rutgers
 >  >university is run by white supremacists, president francis lawrence
 >  >stated that "black people are genetically inferior to whites...".
 >  >(different particular - so now rutgers students can march against
 >  >racial profiling in a more general fashion, they can demand the
 >  >impeachment of university president facsist lawrence and the
 >  >conviction of troopers hogan and kenna. but only if the general is
 >  >properly understood, that white supremacy runs this nation will the
 >  >united front against racist profiling develop.
 >  >
 >  >the CFJ would be limiting itself if it just focused on the narrow
 >  >particulars, which it is presently doing.   therefor it must be
 >  >embraced by the list of demands, reparations and self-determination
 >  >for the black nation in order for us to build the broadest base of
 >  >support possible for this march and then back to the movement in
 >  >general. this is the way to transform the coalition to an offensive,
 >  >first in our attitudes/consciousness then in our plans.
 >  >
 >  >this transformation, although altering to the original conception of
 >  >the coalition must not be pushed in a manner of confrontation, though
 >  >it must be pushed. it is a suggestion in order strengthen the
 >  >coalition, therefor it must be presented as such. so if any person or
 >  >group is against the proposal, they are actually against the
 >  >strenthening of the coalition.
 >  >
 >  >although this is choppy, i had just wrote it as i understood w/no
 >  >preperation, it is an important arguement. criticism, suggestions,
 >  >comments are needed.
 >  >
 >  >Reparations and Self-Determination for the Black Nation
 >  >
 >  >joe
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 >  >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@y...
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 >  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE 
download
 >  >of MSN Explorer at <a
 >  >href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 >
 >
 >
 > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 > coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@y...
 >
 >
 >
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 >
 >
 >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1373
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 12:15:42
Subject:hntribune endorses imperialist devco assault on black arts
Message:

"diversity" as imperial denial of black self-determination & 
reparations...

            Sunday's Home News Tribune editorials 

            Published in the Home News Tribune 4/08/01 

            Embracing diversity at the Crossroads


            A Home News Tribune editorial

            Last weekend, Crossroads Theatre in New Brunswick -- which 
canceled its season because of budget deficits -- held its first
            fund-raiser. Friends and officers of the playhouse 
professed themselves overjoyed at the $20,000 take, but the total 
looks
            frighteningly small next to the $2 million deficit 
overshadowing the theater.

            A few days before the event, Ricardo Khan, the founder and 
longtime chief of Crossroads who had been incommunicado since
            leaving amid turmoil at the end of 1999, resurfaced to 
give his take on things. Questions still surround Khan's leadership,
            particularly his having left the theater on such shaky 
financial footing. But it is hard to disagree with Khan's artistic 
assessment:
            Crossroads has failed to fully flower. 

            True, Crossroads has a glittering reputation. In 1999, it 
was named the country's outstanding regional theater. And it has 
cemented
            itself as the nation's premier black theater. But that, in 
a sense, is precisely the problem. As a young man fresh out of art 
school,
            Khan had envisioned a place that confronted all Americans 
at the juncture of color and culture, at the crossroads we all try to
            ignore.

            The irony is that in limiting itself artistically, the 
theater also ended up limiting itself financially. And one has to 
believe that its
            salvation lies with broadening its schedule and its 
audience.

            There is hope for that. The New Brunswick Development 
Company, the city's very successful nonprofit developer, has
            announced it will be taking over administration of the 
Cultural Center, which oversees the American Repertory Ballet on 
Albany
            Street and owns the three theater buildings, including 
Crossroads, on Livingston Avenue. Although DevCo President Chris
            Paladino does not foresee oversight of Crossroads, DevCo 
will be doing several things that should be of secondary benefit to 
the
            theater, including a capital master plan and 
identification of alternative funding sources. They will also be 
looking for areas of
            synergy between the theaters.

            Paladino and DevCo, of course, are not the only prong of 
New Brunswick's resurgance. Like the city itself, the leaders are
            diverse. They include business executives and university 
administrators; Guillermo Beytagh-Maldonado, who heads the Puerto
            Rican Action Board, and who says he wants to work on 
cultural activities with DevCo; and Secretary of State DeForest B.
            "Buster" Soaries.

            The point is that there is still every chance Crossroads 
might fulfill its promise -- if it would reach out to the community at 
large. It
            might then finally live up to Khan's vision of it as a 
place that embraces diversity, while bringing folks face to face with 
the
            challenges of a multicultural society, a society, 
incidentally, that census figures show awaits all of America -- and 
sooner rather
            than later. 








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1374
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 12:21:44
Subject:nj republicans further deny profiled "abbot" districts
Message:

Schools doubt they can meet pre-K mandate 

            Published in the Home News Tribune 4/8/01 

            By KATHLEEN HOPKINS
            STAFF WRITER

            Educators in some of New Jersey's poorest school districts 
are beginning to sound like Yogi Berra because, to paraphrase the
            famous Yankee catcher, they say it's deja vu all over 
again.

            Last year, representatives of the state's so-called 
special-needs school districts complained they were not given 
approvals and
            resources from the state Department of Education to create 
preschool programs that meet the mandate of the state Supreme Court
            Abbott vs. Burke decisions.

            As they plan for next school year, educators say nothing 
much has changed except that the court's deadline to meet the mandate 
is
            getting closer.

            The Supreme Court, in a series of Abbott vs. Burke 
decisions, ruled that the Garden State's 30 special-needs districts -- 
including
            Elizabeth, New Brunswick and Perth Amboy -- must provide 
all-day, extended-year preschool classes to all eligible 3- and
            4-year-olds, beginning in September. The court said the 
state must provide the special-needs districts with the resources to 
meet
            its order.

            But without buildings to house the flood of additional 
children expected when they offer all-day, extended-year preschool
            programs, district officials say they can't be ready to 
meet the court mandate in September - even if the state comes through 
now
            with the necessary funding and approvals.

            "The court mandate cannot be met in September, no matter 
what," said David Sciarra, executive director of the Education Law
            Center, which represents the children of the state's 
special-needs district in the Abbott vs. Burke case.

            Sciarra said the districts still are waiting for the state 
Department of Education to approve their preschool plans and provide
            additional funding for them.

            Without money and approvals, the special-needs districts 
cannot construct facilities to house the children, hire additional 
teachers
            and perform outreach to get kids to enroll, he said. 

            "They should be in implementation mode," Sciarra said. 
"Instead, these districts have no assurances whatsover from the state 
that
            they're going to be able to do anything. The money is not 
in the (state) budget."

            The state last year delayed approving preschool plans of 
the Abbott districts, which prevented the districts from fully 
implementing
            their plans for the current school year, Sciarra said. 

            But Janet Thompson, education department spokeswoman, 
insisted plans to implement preschool in the Abbott districts are
            proceeding. Department officials are now reviewing the 
districts' plans and requests for funding, she said.

            "We recognize the process of starting up a new program can 
be difficult and take more time than we hoped it would," Thompson
            said. "We still believe we're on track. . . . We are 
determined to meet the court mandate and have full-time preschool 
operating in
            every Abbott district in September.

            Officials in Abbott districts don't deny they will offer 
preschool. They question, however, whether they can serve all kids in
            uncrowded classrooms.

            Elizabeth this year has about 1,200 3- and 4-year-olds 
enrolled in half-day preschool classes, but anticipates 3,000 more 
will want
            to enroll when full-day programs are offered, said Schools 
Superintendent Thomas G. Dunn Jr. With a full-day program, the
            district will have room for half the kids it's serving 
this year, he said.

            Work is under way to transform a former Rickel store on 
South Elmora Avenue into a new early-childhood education facility, but
            that will add about 300 preschool seats, giving the 
district room for about 900 pre-kindergarteners, Dunn said.

            Although Elizabeth received word late last week that the 
state approved the district's $523 million school-construction plan, 
the
            approval is too late for September, he said.

            To make matters worse, Elizabeth has received word it will 
receive only about $16 million from the state to fund the preschool
            program next year, representing a cost-of-living increase 
over funding this year for the half-day program, he said.

            "If every kid went all day, the program costs would be 
just under $90 million," Dunn said.

            Thompson said if plans for the preschool programs comply 
with the court mandate, they will receive funding. And she said the
            state Economic Development Authority is prepared to pay 
for trailers to be used as temporary classrooms in any Abbott district 
that
            needs them.

            But Edward Kent, the New Brunswick school district's 
business administrator, said the longer the district must wait for the 
state to
            approve its preschool program, the less likely the 
district will be able to rent trailers, or hire new teachers, because 
of competition
            from other districts.

            Waiting...

            New Brunswick is still waiting for state approval of its 
school-construction plans, which it submitted in May 1999, Kent said.

            The district can squeeze in the 1,300 3- and 4-year-olds 
expected to enroll in full-day preschool classes in September, but 
that will
            create overcrowding throughout the district that will 
violate the court mandate that prekindergarten class sizes be kept to 
15, he
            said. If enrollment exceeds the projections, the district 
will have a prob lem, he added.

            New Brunswick needs 50 to 60 new classrooms to ease 
overcrowding and meet the court mandate, and wants to build a new
            school for 800 children, Kent said.

            Meanwhile, the district is requesting an additional $88 
million from the state to implement all of the Abbott vs. Burke 
mandates,
            which go beyond requirements for preschool, Kent said.

            But for this school year, the state has given New 
Brunswick a promissory note for $3.6 million to cover a shortfall in 
funding for
            its preschool program. The district received the note, 
Kent said, after the New Brunswick Board of Education threatened to
            discontinue the preschool program.

            ...and waiting

            The state has approved Perth Amboy's construction plans, 
but the district is still waiting for the state Economic Development
            Authority to begin construction of a proposed 
early-childhood center on property the district owns at Hall Avenue 
and Cortlandt
            Street, said Assistant Schools Superintendent Jack 
Rodecker.

            The district has money to build the facility, but is 
eligible for the state EDA to fund it under the school-construction 
law passed last
            year, Rodecker said.

            "We're meeting with them (EDA officials), but they haven't 
made any commitments," Rodecker said, adding that it will take at
            least a year to build a school.

            Meanwhile, pupils continue to attend classes in two 
antiquated buildings the district had intended to close when it opened 
the new
            Robert Wilentz School in September, Rodecker said.

            The district will still need 18 more classrooms to meet 
the court's preschool mandate this September, he said. But all the 
state has
            offered the district so far is nine temporary, trailer 
classrooms, he said.

            Kathleen Hopkins: (908) 353-8003

            from the Home News Tribune 

            Published: April 8, 2001







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1375
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 12:23:46
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Meeting with Mosely
Message:

you know, i getting sick of this shit myself. WHERE IS YOUR "REASONED, 
CLEAR-HEADED, & SCIENTIFIC DEBATE AND ANALYSIS" OF CURTIS' SELL-OUT 
STATEMENTS? otherwise all you critics get no play. give it up or shut up...


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Meeting with Mosely
>Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:10:04
>
>(Snicker...shrug)...while Joe makes it difficult to defend him, I will
>maintain that it is the ABSENCE of REASONED, CLEAR-HEADED, & SCIENTIFIC
>DEBATE & ANALYSIS, that makes absurdity reign...
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: can_bush@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Meeting with Mosely
>Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:51:16 -0000
>
>curtis aspires to be the next deforest soaries! when soaries came on
>the seen following the potts murder, he was quoting malcolm x and other
>black power activists, now he is covering for wHitman and Verneiro for
>racist profiling, while at the same time jacking funds for black
>cultural threatres as the Secratary of State.  where is the coalition
>for police brutality and curtis' "working class" analysis of any of
>this? he still hasn't even taken back his initial proposal to work with
>J&J to solve community problems. the problem with the community is J&
>J!!!! and its backward ethnic cleansing termed "re-development". but
>no, curtis "wants to work with them to solve a drug crisis", what kind
>of "working class" analysis is that? what about a march for jobs and a
>living wage, the right to an education, and childcare fascilities?
>those are the working class issues, not jumping into the lap of J&J.
>curtis tries to get it off that skunk soaries is a "religous leader",
>what kind of statement is that? what a leader! what's next, hitler is
>my religous leader... bang your dead!
>
>the only reasons the nbpc would want myself off this list is because
>they canoot argue me. otherwise they would smartly use the opportunity
>to prove my mistakes and teach everyone else valuble leasons about
>"working with republicans is actually the right thing to do..." -x &
>too many others
>the other reason might be because of the peoples' campaigns ineptitude
>in the local struggle. run a camaign, that embraced those that dissed
>its own platform, and then barely get involved, if at all, in any
>ongoing community struggles. "ok everyone let's retreat to the
>suburbs." - x,  campaign geru
>
>actions speak louder than words. why be worried about what i have to
>say, you all got everything under control... right?
>
>joe
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
>  > As I've just joined the Coalition for Justice egroup list, I am unclear
>as
>  > to why this exchange is taking place here as opposed to the NB Peoples'
>  > Campaign group list...nothing against airing out views widely, but it
>would
>  > seem that PC members would benefit from the dialogue, & that CFJ 
>members
>are
>  > likely unaware of the particulars.
>  >
>  > (Otherwise-- I think that it would be very benificial for this proposed
>  > meeting with Joe Mosely to take place...as much as I disagree with Joe 
>&
>  > BOL/SWORD's portrayal of Curtis Warren as an right-wing, opportunistic,
>  > imperialist, infiltrator (sigh), my concerns about their expulsion have
>been
>  > shifted into alarm when I learned that there was a vote to remove them
>from
>  > the Peoples Campaign egroup list...among the reasons sited was that 
>this
>  > domain is the "intellectual property" of the NBPC...if ever I've heard 
>a
>  > violation of basic democratic principles (!) this purely 
>individualistic
>&
>  > bourgeois concept is it.  Unfortunately, I was not at the meeting to
>voice
>  > my objections, but I feel it's a dangerous road to travel down when
>banning
>  > people becomes a substitute for struggling over the ideas in a coherent
>and
>  > scientific way...remember WBAI?!
>  >
>  > In the Struggle for Unity--Matthew Smith
>  >
>  >
>  > ----Original Message Follows----
>  > From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
>  > Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@y...
>  > To: coalitionforjustice@y...
>  > Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
>  > Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:30:39 -0400
>  >
>  > name the time mosley. others should be made aware also, but the
>discussion
>  > should stay focused on the expulsion of myself, cliff and others from 
>the
>  > nbpc which was/is lead by xavier. i will accept no rules that embrace 
>the
>  > peoples' enemies.
>  >
>  > republicans in the garbage can!
>  >
>  > joe
>  >
>  >
>  >  >From: "Joseph Mosley" <joemosley1@m...>
>  >  >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@y...
>  >  >To: "Coalitionfor Justice" <coalitionforjustice@y...>,	"Tom
>  >  >DeGloma" <tdegloma@h...>,	<Xavier.hansen@a...>
>  >  >Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
>  >  >Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:08:44 -0400
>  >  >
>  >  >I believe that you are on the right track Joe, but never forget that 
>at
>  >  >times we can be our own worst enemy. We may disagree on procedural
>matters
>  >  >but our goals must be clearly defined and supported by all.
>  >  >
>  >  >At last week's meeting of the Peoples Campaign both Tom Degloma and
>Xavier
>  >  >Hansen said that you and your brother are welcome to return if you
>agree
>  > to
>  >  >abide by the rules. They say that you know what these rules are. I 
>did
>not
>  >  >ask because I did not want to hear their version, neither do I want 
>to
>  > hear
>  >  >your version. I want to be as neutral as possible. What I would like 
>to
>  >  >know is , are these rules acceptable to you and Cliff? If they are 
>not,
>  >  >could the five of us sit down somewhere and discuss the issue or
>issues?
>  >  >
>  >  >Feel free to call on me any time.
>  >  >
>  >  >Peace,
>  >  >
>  >  >JoeMosley
>  >  >745-2602
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >----- Original Message -----
>  >  >From: can_bush@h...
>  >  >Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:39 PM
>  >  >To: coalitionforjustice@y...
>  >  >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: list of demands
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >in the form of an advanced political/ideological position the CFJ 
>must
>  >  >advance on the present list of demands to call for reparations and
>  >  >self-determination for the black nation. this struggle against racist
>  >  >profiling will never put the CFJ on the offensive without these two
>  >  >demands being main slogans and organizing tools. how many people are
>  >  >going to march to reopen the investigation into Earl Faison's death?
>  >  >not that it shouldn't be a demand, but the coalition must take the
>  >  >particular to the general and then lead to other particulars in order
>  >  >to be embraced by the majority of people.
>  >  >
>  >  >for example the state police shoot up van of black youth (particular 
>-
>  >  >so people march against racist profiling). state police shoot up 
>black
>  >  >youth because they are run by white supremacists, so is every
>  >  >institution in the nation (general - so people march against every
>  >  >white supremacist institution, as the CFJ can present it). rutgers
>  >  >university is run by white supremacists, president francis lawrence
>  >  >stated that "black people are genetically inferior to whites...".
>  >  >(different particular - so now rutgers students can march against
>  >  >racial profiling in a more general fashion, they can demand the
>  >  >impeachment of university president facsist lawrence and the
>  >  >conviction of troopers hogan and kenna. but only if the general is
>  >  >properly understood, that white supremacy runs this nation will the
>  >  >united front against racist profiling develop.
>  >  >
>  >  >the CFJ would be limiting itself if it just focused on the narrow
>  >  >particulars, which it is presently doing.   therefor it must be
>  >  >embraced by the list of demands, reparations and self-determination
>  >  >for the black nation in order for us to build the broadest base of
>  >  >support possible for this march and then back to the movement in
>  >  >general. this is the way to transform the coalition to an offensive,
>  >  >first in our attitudes/consciousness then in our plans.
>  >  >
>  >  >this transformation, although altering to the original conception of
>  >  >the coalition must not be pushed in a manner of confrontation, though
>  >  >it must be pushed. it is a suggestion in order strengthen the
>  >  >coalition, therefor it must be presented as such. so if any person or
>  >  >group is against the proposal, they are actually against the
>  >  >strenthening of the coalition.
>  >  >
>  >  >although this is choppy, i had just wrote it as i understood w/no
>  >  >preperation, it is an important arguement. criticism, suggestions,
>  >  >comments are needed.
>  >  >
>  >  >Reparations and Self-Determination for the Black Nation
>  >  >
>  >  >joe
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  >  >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@y...
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  >  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE
>download
>  >  >of MSN Explorer at <a
>  >  >href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>
>  >
>  > _________________________________________________________________
>  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  > coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@y...
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > _________________________________________________________________
>  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1376
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 12:40:53
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

jeremy, why ask confusing questions that will lead to more confusion? why 
not just present your view and agreement or disagreement with the views 
already presented? if your agenda is to move the discussion forward...

joe


>From: jagross66@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 09:18:27 -0000
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>wrote:
>
> > do you deny that every nation has the right to its own historical
> > development without being impeded by (european) aggression/plunder?
>
>That depends upon what the people grouped together as / within that
>nation want, correct?  What if there is disagreement as to what is
>properly the nation's 'history' or properly the goal of the
>nation's 'development'?  There have been plenty of people like
>Mobutu, making utterly bogus claims about 'cultural self-
>determination' while robbing their country blind.
>
> > of course every oppressed nation has the democratic right to its
> > self-determined state.  to argue otherwise is to defend the
> > imperialists.
>
>Who draws the line that constitutes the boundaries of an " oppressed
>nation" 's identity?  This seems to make it possible for the
>bureaucrats, representatives, or dictator(s) in charge of
>an 'oppressed' nation's (newly founded ...) state to claim an
>unwarranted moral authority.  Where does the right to self-
>determination end?
>
>Irrespective:  So far, in the 20th century, the nation-state has a
>horribly bad record.  In fact, the people who still defend state
>sovereignity at all on political principle are largely of the more or
>less neo-Fascist Right.  (The WTO is more of an example of people
>possessing the idiotic belief that politics can be collapsed into
>economics -- the neoliberal flipside of what Communists called 'E
>conomism').
>
>TTYL,
>
>Jeremy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1377
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 17:11:26
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

I wouldn't argue that in every case.  Do you support Pol Pot, just 
because he's anti-imperialist?  I don't.  I consider that to be an 
ethical question which transcends the question of so-called "self-
determination."


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> 
wrote:
> do you deny that every nation has the right to its own historical 
> development without being impeded by (european) aggression/plunder?
> 
> of course every oppressed nation has the democratic right to its 
> self-determined state.  to argue otherwise is to defend the 
imperialists.
> 
> 
> >From: jagross66@h...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 05:16:00 -0000
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> >wrote:
> >
> > > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
> >determination &
> > > the theft of national resources.  your celebrated "modernism" is
> >the
> > > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
> >
> >You're not actually saying that every group that can be defined as
> >a 'nation' has an inherent right to its own _nation-state_, are 
you?
> >
> >Are you thereby defending the nation-state on principle?
> >
> >- Jeremy
> >
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1378
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 17:55:07
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
Message:

I TRUST THAT YOU WILL BE OBEDIENT TO THE HOLY SPIRIT. SHOULD HE SO
DIRECT YOU, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ACCEPT THE INVITATION TO DISCIPLESHIP.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1379
Sender:"Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 20:31:21
Subject:Re: [nbpc] A new listserve PLEASE!!!
Message:

Alyssa,

I don't understand this statement:

>this is why we are creating a new list serve that is
>for members only.  because the members of the campaign
>are using their democratic right to controll what
>their name is involved in. and we are interested in
>doing work and the other people are not.  all they
>want to do is sit at their computer all day and
>disrespect people in a public forum and attack all of
>the good work we are doing while they do nothing but
>try to break up the movement they are riding on.

I assume you are talking about SWORD as you also mention Joe's email. I'd 
just like to know where you get the idea that we are not doing any work in 
the community. I myself have repeatedly told you about community meetings or 
actions we are involved in.

What specifically is the work that the NBPC is doing that we are "riding"?  
Can you explain this?

As you are a member of the steering committee, I request an explanation as 
to my expulsion from the PC, especially as to why I was expelled directly 
from the women's caucus.

Tamara




>From: Alyssa Coiley <ajoy110@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] A new listserve PLEASE!!!
>Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:34:35 -0700 (PDT)
>
>WHEN IS THE LISTSERVE GOING TO CHANGE SO ONLY MEMBERS
>CAN PARTICIPATE?
>
>frankly i am through with the whole discussion and it
>is messages like the one below that have ended it for
>me.  It is comments like these that caused the
>disscussion in the womens caucus meeting in the first
>place (we then brought it to the larger body).
>
>do we think the FBI just dissapeared after the black
>panthers, that cointellpro doesn't exist? people are
>reading this crap, and they're laughing and they're
>planning how to exacerbate the situation even more so
>we wont get anything done.  this is how the revolution
>was smashed in the 70's and we need to read our
>histroy and learn from it.
>
>we do not have time to be name calling, its
>ridiculous.  we have serious work to do. why isn't
>anyone talking about how to fill all of the positions
>that aren't filled in the campaign so more people are
>doing work and we expand and grow?  why are we
>fighting all of the time?
>
>i think we need to recognize that we are the richest
>people in the world and no one else has time to argue
>like we do.  frankly we don't either.  you call
>yourself a revolutionary? you say you want unity?  do
>it, don't say it.  if you have time to write four five
>emails a day bashing all of the work that people are
>doing, you are wasting your time and everyone else's
>who has to read your crap.
>

>
>im sick of this shit and yeah im gonna say it just
>like that. i cant wait until we get a new listserve so
>i dont have to read all the bullshit anymore.
>
>alyssa joy
>
>--- joseph smith <can_bush@...> wrote:
> > tracy i didn't like you before, but before we had a
> > workable relationship.
> > how is it again that communism is childish, big man?
> > republicans in the
> > garbage can!
> >
> > joe
> >
> >
> > >From: TRACYFORD1420@...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Meeting with Mosely
> > >Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 04:15:52 -0400 (EDT)
> > >
> > >ST. PETER DENIED CHRIST THREE TIMES. BUT HE IS THE
> > NUMBER ONE APOSTLE. I
> > >WAS FIRST BAPTIST AND REPUBLICAN SO I DECIDED TO
> > RETURNED TO MY FIRST
> > >LOVE. I LEFT THEM BECAUSE PEOPLE CAME IN AND PUSH
> > ME OUT. I TRY
> > >SOCIALISM, TRY COMMUNISM, AND ISLAM. WHEN I WAS A
> > CHILD I PLAYED WITH
> > >CHILDISH THINGS AND BUT NOW I AM ADULT . I PUT AWAY
> > CHILDISH THINGS AND
> > >PUT MY CONCERN ON SERIOUS THINGS. BECAUSE PLAY-TIME
> > IS OVER. I BECAME AN
> > >APOSTLE OF JESUS CHRIST. I HAVE A FLOCK WHICH WAS
> > GIVEN TO ME CARE FOR
> > >BY JESUS, BEFORE I DO NOT HAVE ONE IS TRUE. MY
> > FLOCK IS HUNDRED  STRONG.
> > >IF YOU WANT TO SEE ME PREACH TO THEM COME TO
> > TRAVELERS FELLOWSHIP
> > >BAPTIST CHURCH LOCATED AT 33 POPULAR ROAD IN
> > PISCATAWAY, N.J. ON APRIL
> > >23 MONDAY AT 7:00PM. ALL ARE WELCOME. DO YOU
> > UNDERSTAND ME NOW OR HOW DO
> > >LIKE ME NOW???���
> > >TRACY FORD
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > >
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:
> > nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1380
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 23:04:12
Subject:Re: Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> jeremy, why ask confusing questions that will lead to more 
confusion? why 
> not just present your view and agreement or disagreement with the 
views 
> already presented? if your agenda is to move the discussion 
forward...
> 
> joe

The problem is that the subject is confusing.  If there were absolute 
answers to difficult political problems, the person with the One True 
Answer would be justified in picking up a gun and blowing away all of 
The Bad People.  

I don't think anyone could honestly believe that 300+ years of debate 
on what you call 'self-determination' as a concept is going to be 
solved once and for all on a NJ municipal politics discussion list.

I'd be glad to clarify, of course, if anything I said seemed unclear. 
If you want what's basically an answer:  I don't think it's 
'progressive' or 'revolutionary' to defend the right of every discrete 
social/cultural/economic group to its own state.  That seems to just 
lead to a world of exclusionary, and perhaps even genocidal, 
politics (eg, Jim's Pol Pot example).

- Jeremy


> >From: jagross66@h...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> >Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 09:18:27 -0000
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> >wrote:
> >
> > > do you deny that every nation has the right to its own 
historical
> > > development without being impeded by (european) 
aggression/plunder?
> >
> >That depends upon what the people grouped together as / within that
> >nation want, correct?  What if there is disagreement as to what is
> >properly the nation's 'history' or properly the goal of the
> >nation's 'development'?  There have been plenty of people like
> >Mobutu, making utterly bogus claims about 'cultural self-
> >determination' while robbing their country blind.
> >
> > > of course every oppressed nation has the democratic right to its
> > > self-determined state.  to argue otherwise is to defend the
> > > imperialists.
> >
> >Who draws the line that constitutes the boundaries of an " 
oppressed
> >nation" 's identity?  This seems to make it possible for the
> >bureaucrats, representatives, or dictator(s) in charge of
> >an 'oppressed' nation's (newly founded ...) state to claim an
> >unwarranted moral authority.  Where does the right to self-
> >determination end?
> >
> >Irrespective:  So far, in the 20th century, the nation-state has a
> >horribly bad record.  In fact, the people who still defend state
> >sovereignity at all on political principle are largely of the more 
or
> >less neo-Fascist Right.  (The WTO is more of an example of people
> >possessing the idiotic belief that politics can be collapsed into
> >economics -- the neoliberal flipside of what Communists called 'E
> >conomism').
> >
> >TTYL,
> >
> >Jeremy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1381
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 23:12:48
Subject:"Black Art"
Message:

Poems are bullshit unless they are
teeth or trees or lemons piled 
on a step.  Or black ladies dying 
of men leaving nickel hearts 
beating them down.  Fuck poems 
and they are useful, wd they shoot 
come at you, love what you are, 
breathe like wrestlers, or shudder 
strangely after pissing.  We want live 
words of the hip world live flesh & 
coursing blood.  Hearts Brains 
Souls splintering fire.  We want poems 
like fists beating niggers out of Jocks 
or dagger poems in the slimy bellies 
of the owner-jews.  Black poems to 
smear on girdlemamma mulatto bitches 
whose brains are red jelly stuck 
between 'lizabeth taylor's toes.  Stinking 
Whores!  We want "poems that kill."  
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot 
guns.  Poems that wrestle cops into alleys 
and take their weapons leaving them dead 
with tongues pulled out and sent to Ireland.  Knockoff 
poems for dope selling wops or slick halfwhite 
politicians Airplane poems, rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...tuhtuhtuhtuhtuhtuhtuhtuhtuh
...rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...Setting fire and death to 
whities ass.  Look at the Liberal 
Spokesman for the jews clutch his throat 
& puke himself into eternity...rrrrrrrr  
There's a negroleader pinned to 
a bar stool in Sardi's eyeballs melting 
in hot flame  Another negroleader 
on the steps of the white house one 
kneeling between the sheriff's thighs 
negotiating cooly for his people.  
Agggh...stumbles across the room...
Put it on him, poem.  Strip him naked 
to the world!  Another bad poem cracking 
steel knuckles in a jewlady's mouth  
Poem scream poison gas on beasts in green berets 
Clean out the world for virtue and love,  
Let there be no love poems written 
until love can exist freely and 
cleanly.  Let Black People understand 
that they are the lovers and the sons 
of lovers and warriors and sons 
of warriors  Are poems & poets & 
all the loveliness here in the world

We want a black poem.  And a 
Black World.
Let the world be a Black Poem 
And Let All Black People Speak This Poem 
Silently
or LOUD

--Amiri Baraka








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1382
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-09 00:33:49
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Meeting with Mosely
Message:

ON ACHIEVEMENT???



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1383
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-09 00:38:08
Subject:Re: [nbpc] nj republicans further deny profiled "abbot" districts
Message:

IT MAKES YOU REALIZE HOW INSIGNIFICANT WE ALL ARE.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1384
Sender:"Mathew Levi" <ml@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-09 00:47:38
Subject:Re: [nbpc] nj republicans further deny profiled "abbot" districts
Message:


> IT MAKES YOU REALIZE HOW INSIGNIFICANT WE ALL ARE.
> 
> 
> 

Some of us more than others, I think.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1385
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-07 23:55:26
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

jim, do you agree that slaves should be repaid for slavery? do you think 
workers should be repaid for exploitation? do you think students of 
segregation should be repaid for education?

when you first posted that there are some arguements that you can agree 
with, but they can be beat by arguements countering it. (it being 
reperations and self-determination) can you explain the arguements that you 
support without bringing up the better counters? i want to underrstand what 
you think.

joe


>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1980 22:37:00 -0500
>
>I thought that this was a good discussion. I advocate Self D and 
>Repartaions and Jim
>and I have debated it in the past. The discussion was actaully moving 
>forward, and
>many times Jim made the case for Self-D without even meaning to. For 
>insatnce when he
>says that the overthrow of reconstruction resulted in "pre-modern classes" 
>taking
>control of the Soutrh. That is the point, the relationship of 
>Afro-Americans to the US
>is not even at the level that should be achieved in democratic anti-feudal
>revolutions. Self-D addresses that very point.
>However, to say that Jim's analysis is the same as the Klan is an 
>ultra-left error and
>a un- informed remark. First of all,  most people are against reparations 
>that's why
>we have to struggle for it; otherwise we would already have it. To say that 
>Jim's
>analysis is the same as the Klan (even though you did not call him a Klans 
>man) is
>counter-revolutionary because it disorganizes the people rather than 
>organize them.
>Instead of drawing revolutionary intellectuals and workers closer togther 
>towards
>unity around a common platform it pushes them away towards disunity.
>I would take it as an extreme insult if someone were to say I had a line 
>analgous to
>the Klan given that I identify as a revolutionary, why would you expect Jim 
>to do
>otherwise? How does saying he has a line like the Klan educate him or 
>change his mind
>or even just contribute meaningfully to the debate?
>This is one particular example of an ultra-left trend of which the attack 
>on Curtis is
>but another example. This line is sectarian because it creates an enemy 
>where there
>was/should/could be an ally.   The defeat of this ultra-left line and its
>rectification along Marxist-Leninist lines will be a geat force towards 
>uniting
>revolutionarys in New Brunswick and in New Jersey and will go a long way in 
>  defeating
>the local Social-Democrat liberal missionary line that dominates NJFO and 
>the People's
>Campaign. If you can not maintain even an alliance with people like Jim and 
>Curtis (to
>name but two examples) the movemnt will not grow, no one will be organized 
>and we will
>have 5  organizations for four  people. Discussion is a good vehicle to 
>bring
>ideological clarity and unity but if discussion is just an excuse to force 
>people to
>accept your line with verbal abuse it becomes a servant of imperialsim.
>
>cliff smith wrote:
>
> > the theft of national "value" is incidental to the destruction of 
>national
> > "soveriegnty"?
> >
> > stealing something from you is disconnected from denying your right to 
>it?
> >
> > imperialism (or any social relation) cannot be understood only 
>economically,
> > & not also necessarily politically.
> >
> > the u.s. cannot control arab oil without 1st toppling national 
>governments.
> > else why eliminate allende?
> >
> > it is a white supremacist position to deny the national oppression of 
>Black
> > America.  j&j steals from everyone equally?  nb Blacks/Latinos are not
> > super-exploited/oppressed?
> >
> > what is racial profiling? a class question only? was diallo obliterated 
>for
> > being poor only? how to explaing the lynching of james byrd by poor 
>whites?
> > any lynching? the denial of democratic rights, education, jobs? the 
>vast,
> > utter impoverishment of the Black Belt (geographic Nation) south?
> >
> > u.s. imperialism does not merely steal labor power from Afro-America, 
>but
> > most definitely robs its national "value".  impedes its economic, 
>political,
> > & cultural development.  what is the relationship of benny goodman to 
>jazz,
> > of eminem to hiphop, of the nba to allen iverson?  who profit$ from 
>these
> > Black national markets?  sony?
> >
> > if yr serious in understanding these relations, start with dubois "black
> > reconstruction" & baraka's "black nation" or listen to some charles 
>mingus.
> > yr analysis now is that of the klan.
> >
> > >From: jmluceno@...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:13:28 -0000
> > >
> > > > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
> > >determination &
> > > > the theft of national resources.  your celebrated "modernism" is
> > >the
> > > > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
> > >
> > >No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real value from one
> > >country and its transportation into another.  Loss of national
> > >sovereignty is incidental to it.
> > >
> > >I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations in the U.S. and
> > >the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book and Huey
> > >Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say that if you like,
> > >but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and industrialization has
> > >long-since left the cities for the most part.
> > >
> > >What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are stealing national
> > >resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor power.  I'll agree
> > >to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a class question,
> > >not a race question.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > you have no national relation to sanford st.  however democracy
> > >means those
> > > > oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st & the US urban
> > >centers,
> > > > and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne Nations have the
> > >right to
> > > > politically & economically control those areas in which they are
> > >the
> > > > plurality. to determine their relationship to the US, which they
> > >have never
> > > > done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of all Black peoples
> > >in US.
> > >
> > >Alright.  So you're talking about political control at the grassroots
> > >level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of *race*?  Why?
> > >
> > >Do you extend this right to all local groups that identify themselves
> > >as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your brother's word)
> > >out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom want to form
> > >their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.  Should they
> > >be allowed to?
> > >
> > >Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of local government
> > >(returning rights to the states, to municipalities, what have you)
> > >has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say what you will
> > >about the United States federal government, but at least they
> > >enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More than what the
> > >state governments would have done.
> > >
> > >For that matter, why do you want to divide the working class along
> > >race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain people are unique
> > >based strictly upon their connection to some kind of cultural
> > >heritage or land, something that that *outsiders* cannot understand,
> > >sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity garbage is what
> > >every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi Amin spouts before
> > >sending people to the camps.
> > >
> > >Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?  Let's be real.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > you should develop a community consciousness at sanford st & demand
> > > > community self-determination against j&j dictatorship, which is the
> > >heart of
> > > > the demand "community control". not "work with j&j to solve
> > >problems".
> > >
> > >J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a community
> > >where people don't have power, and they'll exploit there.  Or better
> > >yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is your self-
> > >determination, then?  That's why you need to have an international
> > >movement that unites the working class across all lines.  Class
> > >alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat imperialism, then we can
> > >talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we need something
> > >concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest of the
> > >proletariat.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction by fascist
> > >terror. the
> > > > "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 hayes-tilden
> > >scheme.  where
> > > > is the 40acres & mule?
> > >
> > >Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than the return of
> > >power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the southern
> > >cracker who is about as modern flint knife.
> > >
> > >Face it.  If the United States government had enforced Reconstruction
> > >by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the U.S. army, that
> > >would have afforded them real local control and self-determination.
> > >Instead they passed it off for the states to decide who could have
> > >guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.
> > >
> > >How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you don't
> > >institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of federal force?
> > >What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it away because it
> > >does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?
> > >
> > >Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The line is drawn
> > >between the people who produce value, and those to reap the harvest.
> > >Not between black or white or geographical location.  Progress
> > >requires an ideological and political unity of the part of human-kind
> > >that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is the
> > >proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and real political
> > >freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You forget about
> > >the "religious" differences.  Save religion for history class about
> > >the middle ages.  Forget about color differences, because the idea
> > >that people are different based upon "race" is exactly the idea we
> > >want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of the
> > >superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being a part of
> > >the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.  Because you
> > >better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once redevelopment
> > >and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into enclaves in the
> > >suburbs.
> > >
> > >We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the power of the
> > >bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by balkanizing
> > >the United States?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Black America thoroughly meets the definition of nation: common
> > >geographic
> > > > area, culture, history, developed economy, as put forward first by
> > >Joe
> > > > Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.
> > >
> > >Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think about how Joe
> > >Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination for Lenin, and
> > >how he went and created an imperialist empire of satellites after the
> > >war.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > self-determination & reparations for women against patriarchy!
> > > >
> > > > self-determination & reparations for workers against capital!
> > > >
> > > > people vs. imperialism
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
> > > > >
> > > > >So if I want to break off and form a country out of Sandford St.
> > >down
> > > > >here, that's ok?
> > > > >
> > > > >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-determination.  I'm
> > > > >not following.
> > > > >
> > > > >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm down with radical
> > > > >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But where do you get
> > > > >reparations out of this?
> > > > >
> > > > >And show me how rejecting national self-determination and
> > >reparations
> > > > >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > self-determination & reparations are basic democratic rights and
> > > > >the only
> > > > > > "concrete" political basis for national equality.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > scratch a social democrat, find a white supremacist.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Joe,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not
> > > > >convinced
> > > > > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not
> > > > >heard
> > > > > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I
> > >can
> > > > > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement
> > > > >about
> > > > > > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came
> > > > >up, I
> > > > > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot
> > >condone
> > > > > > >national self-determination, especially not for the "black
> > > > >nation."  I
> > > > > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-
> > >determination
> > > > > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the
> > > > >issue.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or
> > >the
> > > > > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have
> > >never had
> > > > > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it
> > >belongs
> > > > >in a
> > > > > > >press statement on police brutality, something we are against
> > >in
> > > > >both
> > > > > > >theory and practice?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Jim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >                           NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S
> > >CAMPAIGN
> > > > > > > > >                           Press Secretary
> > > > > > > > >                           P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick,
> > >NJ 08903
> > > > > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S
> > >OUSTER
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
> > > > > > >Campaign,
> > > > > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and
> > >their
> > > > > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
> > > > >nationalities
> > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly
> > >welcomes
> > > > > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey
> > >State
> > > > > > >Senate
> > > > > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice
> > >Peter
> > > > > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > > > > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color,
> > >commits
> > > > >a
> > > > > > >hate
> > > > > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and
> > >severe
> > > > > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who
> > > > >turn a
> > > > > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent
> > >with
> > > > > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary
> > > > >Committee
> > > > > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that
> > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the
> > >state
> > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful
> > >practice.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls
> > >upon the
> > > > > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for
> > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of
> > > > >senators
> > > > > > >from
> > > > > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   In light of the facts that have, at long last, been
> > >revealed
> > > > > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's
> > > > >hearings,
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >need for community control over police is now more acute
> > >than
> > > > >ever.
> > > > > > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes
> > >that
> > > > > > > > >community control, including democratically elected
> > >civilian
> > > > >police
> > > > > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate
> > >crimes
> > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   The minority caucus of the State Legislature is
> > >already
> > > > > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if
> > >they are
> > > > > > >good
> > > > > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley -
> > >732/514-0610
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >-30-
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> >
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> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
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> >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1386
Sender:Julie Poulos <juliepoulos@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-09 10:23:12
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
Message:

--- cliff smith <cliffsmith69@...> wrote:
> julie-
> 
> produce our "slanderous accusation" against curtis.

--- cliff smith <cliffsmith69@...> wrote:
> him [Curtis] co-operating with the j&j & their political
> machine 


You just did, Cliff.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1387
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-09 14:24:48
Subject:NBHA INVESTIGATIONS-URGENT
Message:

Hello all,

Is anyone in possession of any record signed by someone from the 
housing authority which:

1. was presented to HUD or another _federal_ agency;
2. was signed on or after October 23, 1998;
3. involves a claim for federal money or other federal property; and
4. involves an assertion by the housing authority that it was in 
compliance with "the Housing Act of 1937" or "any federal 
requirement" or words to that effect?

Inasmuch as I only have one such document at the moment meeting these 
criteria, I am looking for more.  I am especially interested in any 
vouchers or progress payment requests for HOPE VI that might meet 
these criteria.

Thanks.









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1388
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-09 16:32:20
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
Message:

julie, those are curtis' own spoken desires. he desires to co-operate with 
J&J from his own mouth. next...

joe


>From: Julie Poulos <juliepoulos@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
>Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 07:23:12 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>--- cliff smith <cliffsmith69@...> wrote:
> > julie-
> >
> > produce our "slanderous accusation" against curtis.
>
>--- cliff smith <cliffsmith69@...> wrote:
> > him [Curtis] co-operating with the j&j & their political
> > machine
>
>
>You just did, Cliff.
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1389
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-09 17:20:11
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

Joe --

I think slaves should be repaid for slavery, but as far as I can 
tell, the last of the slaves died over a 100 years ago.

What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have to 
slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because slavery 
was abolished.  

What African-Americans do have an immediate connection with is racism 
and capitalism.  They aren't impoverished because of slavery.  That's 
absurd.  They're impoverished because of racism.

What are you going to do about racism?  You're going to throw money 
at it.  Great.  Are you *really* that cynical?  All black people care 
about is getting cash for slavery?  

You're being vague vague vague about this question of self-
determination.  What are the boundaries that form the black nation?  
What is the geographical location that they have an ancestral 
connection to?  What do you mean by "community control"?  You're 
going to fight off capitalism by roping off the inner cities?  What 
does the inner city produce that anybody needs?

Gee wiz, welcome to Dialectics 101.  You cannot isolate a phenomenon 
from the totality, or else it becomes one-sided.  One-sidedeness is 
exactly what the call for self-determation of the black nation is.  

Revolution requires that the proletariat have an awareness of the 
*totality* of the system of capitalist production.  It does not mean 
having an awareness of PARTICULAR cultural or ancestral heritage.  
And I stress once again -- the extent to which a nation emphasizes 
its uniqueness as a people based upon an innate sense of belonging to 
a culture that makes it different from "western ideas" or, even 
better, "white ideas", is the extent to which is supports 
totalitarianism.  If you're going to prove it to me otherwise, you're 
not going to prove it on the basis of history.  History backs me up.  
It abandons you.  

There is an implicit idea in Marx that we move toward a UNIVERSAL 
conception of culture.  Do you recognize it?  On the other list you 
were just saying that you would help kick my ass if I made this 
argument on the street outside my house, so I somehow doubt you do...

Jim

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> jim, do you agree that slaves should be repaid for slavery? do you 
think 
> workers should be repaid for exploitation? do you think students of 
> segregation should be repaid for education?
> 
> when you first posted that there are some arguements that you can 
agree 
> with, but they can be beat by arguements countering it. (it being 
> reperations and self-determination) can you explain the arguements 
that you 
> support without bringing up the better counters? i want to 
underrstand what 
> you think.
> 
> joe
> 
> 
> >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> >Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1980 22:37:00 -0500
> >
> >I thought that this was a good discussion. I advocate Self D and 
> >Repartaions and Jim
> >and I have debated it in the past. The discussion was actaully 
moving 
> >forward, and
> >many times Jim made the case for Self-D without even meaning to. 
For 
> >insatnce when he
> >says that the overthrow of reconstruction resulted in "pre-modern 
classes" 
> >taking
> >control of the Soutrh. That is the point, the relationship of 
> >Afro-Americans to the US
> >is not even at the level that should be achieved in democratic 
anti-feudal
> >revolutions. Self-D addresses that very point.
> >However, to say that Jim's analysis is the same as the Klan is an 
> >ultra-left error and
> >a un- informed remark. First of all,  most people are against 
reparations 
> >that's why
> >we have to struggle for it; otherwise we would already have it. To 
say that 
> >Jim's
> >analysis is the same as the Klan (even though you did not call him 
a Klans 
> >man) is
> >counter-revolutionary because it disorganizes the people rather 
than 
> >organize them.
> >Instead of drawing revolutionary intellectuals and workers closer 
togther 
> >towards
> >unity around a common platform it pushes them away towards 
disunity.
> >I would take it as an extreme insult if someone were to say I had 
a line 
> >analgous to
> >the Klan given that I identify as a revolutionary, why would you 
expect Jim 
> >to do
> >otherwise? How does saying he has a line like the Klan educate him 
or 
> >change his mind
> >or even just contribute meaningfully to the debate?
> >This is one particular example of an ultra-left trend of which the 
attack 
> >on Curtis is
> >but another example. This line is sectarian because it creates an 
enemy 
> >where there
> >was/should/could be an ally.   The defeat of this ultra-left line 
and its
> >rectification along Marxist-Leninist lines will be a geat force 
towards 
> >uniting
> >revolutionarys in New Brunswick and in New Jersey and will go a 
long way in 
> >  defeating
> >the local Social-Democrat liberal missionary line that dominates 
NJFO and 
> >the People's
> >Campaign. If you can not maintain even an alliance with people 
like Jim and 
> >Curtis (to
> >name but two examples) the movemnt will not grow, no one will be 
organized 
> >and we will
> >have 5  organizations for four  people. Discussion is a good 
vehicle to 
> >bring
> >ideological clarity and unity but if discussion is just an excuse 
to force 
> >people to
> >accept your line with verbal abuse it becomes a servant of 
imperialsim.
> >
> >cliff smith wrote:
> >
> > > the theft of national "value" is incidental to the destruction 
of 
> >national
> > > "soveriegnty"?
> > >
> > > stealing something from you is disconnected from denying your 
right to 
> >it?
> > >
> > > imperialism (or any social relation) cannot be understood only 
> >economically,
> > > & not also necessarily politically.
> > >
> > > the u.s. cannot control arab oil without 1st toppling national 
> >governments.
> > > else why eliminate allende?
> > >
> > > it is a white supremacist position to deny the national 
oppression of 
> >Black
> > > America.  j&j steals from everyone equally?  nb Blacks/Latinos 
are not
> > > super-exploited/oppressed?
> > >
> > > what is racial profiling? a class question only? was diallo 
obliterated 
> >for
> > > being poor only? how to explaing the lynching of james byrd by 
poor 
> >whites?
> > > any lynching? the denial of democratic rights, education, jobs? 
the 
> >vast,
> > > utter impoverishment of the Black Belt (geographic Nation) 
south?
> > >
> > > u.s. imperialism does not merely steal labor power from Afro-
America, 
> >but
> > > most definitely robs its national "value".  impedes its 
economic, 
> >political,
> > > & cultural development.  what is the relationship of benny 
goodman to 
> >jazz,
> > > of eminem to hiphop, of the nba to allen iverson?  who profit$ 
from 
> >these
> > > Black national markets?  sony?
> > >
> > > if yr serious in understanding these relations, start with 
dubois "black
> > > reconstruction" & baraka's "black nation" or listen to some 
charles 
> >mingus.
> > > yr analysis now is that of the klan.
> > >
> > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:13:28 -0000
> > > >
> > > > > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
> > > >determination &
> > > > > the theft of national resources.  your 
celebrated "modernism" is
> > > >the
> > > > > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
> > > >
> > > >No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real value 
from one
> > > >country and its transportation into another.  Loss of national
> > > >sovereignty is incidental to it.
> > > >
> > > >I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations in the 
U.S. and
> > > >the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book and Huey
> > > >Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say that if 
you like,
> > > >but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and 
industrialization has
> > > >long-since left the cities for the most part.
> > > >
> > > >What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are stealing 
national
> > > >resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor power.  
I'll agree
> > > >to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a class 
question,
> > > >not a race question.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > you have no national relation to sanford st.  however 
democracy
> > > >means those
> > > > > oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st & the 
US urban
> > > >centers,
> > > > > and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne Nations have 
the
> > > >right to
> > > > > politically & economically control those areas in which 
they are
> > > >the
> > > > > plurality. to determine their relationship to the US, which 
they
> > > >have never
> > > > > done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of all Black 
peoples
> > > >in US.
> > > >
> > > >Alright.  So you're talking about political control at the 
grassroots
> > > >level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of 
*race*?  Why?
> > > >
> > > >Do you extend this right to all local groups that identify 
themselves
> > > >as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your brother's 
word)
> > > >out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom want to 
form
> > > >their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.  
Should they
> > > >be allowed to?
> > > >
> > > >Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of local 
government
> > > >(returning rights to the states, to municipalities, what have 
you)
> > > >has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say what 
you will
> > > >about the United States federal government, but at least they
> > > >enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More than 
what the
> > > >state governments would have done.
> > > >
> > > >For that matter, why do you want to divide the working class 
along
> > > >race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain people are 
unique
> > > >based strictly upon their connection to some kind of cultural
> > > >heritage or land, something that that *outsiders* cannot 
understand,
> > > >sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity garbage 
is what
> > > >every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi Amin spouts 
before
> > > >sending people to the camps.
> > > >
> > > >Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?  Let's 
be real.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > you should develop a community consciousness at sanford st 
& demand
> > > > > community self-determination against j&j dictatorship, 
which is the
> > > >heart of
> > > > > the demand "community control". not "work with j&j to solve
> > > >problems".
> > > >
> > > >J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a 
community
> > > >where people don't have power, and they'll exploit there.  Or 
better
> > > >yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is your self-
> > > >determination, then?  That's why you need to have an 
international
> > > >movement that unites the working class across all lines.  Class
> > > >alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat imperialism, then 
we can
> > > >talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we need 
something
> > > >concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest of the
> > > >proletariat.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction by 
fascist
> > > >terror. the
> > > > > "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 hayes-tilden
> > > >scheme.  where
> > > > > is the 40acres & mule?
> > > >
> > > >Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than the 
return of
> > > >power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the 
southern
> > > >cracker who is about as modern flint knife.
> > > >
> > > >Face it.  If the United States government had enforced 
Reconstruction
> > > >by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the U.S. 
army, that
> > > >would have afforded them real local control and self-
determination.
> > > >Instead they passed it off for the states to decide who could 
have
> > > >guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.
> > > >
> > > >How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you don't
> > > >institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of federal 
force?
> > > >What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it away 
because it
> > > >does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?
> > > >
> > > >Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The line is 
drawn
> > > >between the people who produce value, and those to reap the 
harvest.
> > > >Not between black or white or geographical location.  Progress
> > > >requires an ideological and political unity of the part of 
human-kind
> > > >that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is the
> > > >proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and real 
political
> > > >freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You forget 
about
> > > >the "religious" differences.  Save religion for history class 
about
> > > >the middle ages.  Forget about color differences, because the 
idea
> > > >that people are different based upon "race" is exactly the 
idea we
> > > >want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of the
> > > >superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being a part 
of
> > > >the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.  
Because you
> > > >better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once 
redevelopment
> > > >and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into enclaves 
in the
> > > >suburbs.
> > > >
> > > >We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the power of 
the
> > > >bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by 
balkanizing
> > > >the United States?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Black America thoroughly meets the definition of nation: 
common
> > > >geographic
> > > > > area, culture, history, developed economy, as put forward 
first by
> > > >Joe
> > > > > Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.
> > > >
> > > >Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think about how 
Joe
> > > >Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination for 
Lenin, and
> > > >how he went and created an imperialist empire of satellites 
after the
> > > >war.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > self-determination & reparations for women against 
patriarchy!
> > > > >
> > > > > self-determination & reparations for workers against 
capital!
> > > > >
> > > > > people vs. imperialism
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >So if I want to break off and form a country out of 
Sandford St.
> > > >down
> > > > > >here, that's ok?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-
determination.  I'm
> > > > > >not following.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm down 
with radical
> > > > > >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But where do 
you get
> > > > > >reparations out of this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >And show me how rejecting national self-determination and
> > > >reparations
> > > > > >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" 
<cliffsmith69@h...>
> > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > self-determination & reparations are basic democratic 
rights and
> > > > > >the only
> > > > > > > "concrete" political basis for national equality.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > scratch a social democrat, find a white supremacist.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE 
VERNIERO
> > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Joe,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I 
am not
> > > > > >convinced
> > > > > > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I 
have not
> > > > > >heard
> > > > > > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only 
arguments I
> > > >can
> > > > > > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments 
against it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a 
statement
> > > > > >about
> > > > > > > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the 
debate came
> > > > > >up, I
> > > > > > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I 
cannot
> > > >condone
> > > > > > > >national self-determination, especially not for 
the "black
> > > > > >nation."  I
> > > > > > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-
> > > >determination
> > > > > > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate 
over the
> > > > > >issue.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's 
Campaign or
> > > >the
> > > > > > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we 
have
> > > >never had
> > > > > > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think 
it
> > > >belongs
> > > > > >in a
> > > > > > > >press statement on police brutality, something we are 
against
> > > >in
> > > > > >both
> > > > > > > >theory and practice?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Jim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" 
<can_bush@h...>
> > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black 
Nation!??
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE 
VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >                           NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S
> > > >CAMPAIGN
> > > > > > > > > >                           Press Secretary
> > > > > > > > > >                           P.O. Box 131? New 
Brunswick,
> > > >NJ 08903
> > > > > > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR 
VERNIERO'S
> > > >OUSTER
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick 
People's
> > > > > > > >Campaign,
> > > > > > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents 
and
> > > >their
> > > > > > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
> > > > > >nationalities
> > > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following 
statement today:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) 
warmly
> > > >welcomes
> > > > > > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New 
Jersey
> > > >State
> > > > > > > >Senate
> > > > > > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court 
Justice
> > > >Peter
> > > > > > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >   Any police officer who engages in racial 
profiling and
> > > > > > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of 
color,
> > > >commits
> > > > > >a
> > > > > > > >hate
> > > > > > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by 
swift and
> > > >severe
> > > > > > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their 
superiors who
> > > > > >turn a
> > > > > > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >   The removal of Justice Verniero would be 
consistent
> > > >with
> > > > > > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate 
Judiciary
> > > > > >Committee
> > > > > > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's 
satisfaction, that
> > > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling 
in the
> > > >state
> > > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this 
hateful
> > > >practice.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign further 
calls
> > > >upon the
> > > > > > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution 
calling for
> > > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan 
group of
> > > > > >senators
> > > > > > > >from
> > > > > > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >   In light of the facts that have, at long last, 
been
> > > >revealed
> > > > > > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary 
Committee's
> > > > > >hearings,
> > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > >need for community control over police is now more 
acute
> > > >than
> > > > > >ever.
> > > > > > > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and 
believes
> > > >that
> > > > > > > > > >community control, including democratically elected
> > > >civilian
> > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the 
hate
> > > >crimes
> > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of 
color.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >   The minority caucus of the State Legislature is
> > > >already
> > > > > > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all 
legislators, if
> > > >they are
> > > > > > > >good
> > > > > > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >   FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley -
> > > >732/514-0610
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >-30-
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > 
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > 
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 
_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com
> > > >
> > >
> > > 
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
> >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1390
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-09 21:27:22
Subject:Hutchinson on E.C.
Message:

Hello,

I went and looked at some articles by Earl Ofari Hutchinson besides 
the one on Reparations.  Interestingly, he wrote an article in favor 
of keeping the Electoral College.  Since it largely corresponds to my 
understanding of the problem, I thought I'd repost it :

---

The clamor by Hillary Rodham Clinton, Jesse Jackson and others, 
mostly Democrats, to dump the Electoral College is disingenuous at 
best and dangerous at worst. In 1992 Rodham Clinton and Jackson did 
not shout that the Electoral College is unfair and thwarted the 
popular will by permitting the candidate who wins a minority of the 
popular vote to occupy the White House. That year, Rodham Clinton's 
husband, Bill, won the presidency with a minority of the vote. In the 
same election, one out of five voters backed Reform Party 
presidential candidate Ross Perot. Yet he did not get a single 
electoral vote. Rodham Clinton and Jackson did not call that unfair. 
They inflame black and Latino voters by pounding on the point that 
the Electoral College gives too much power to mostly white, 
conservative farmers, ranchers, and live stock herders in sparsely 
populated states and too little power to those in racially diverse, 
densely populated states. But scrapping the Electoral College because 
Rodham Clinton and Jackson are piqued over a potential Bush 
presidency will badly hurt blacks and Latinos. Gore's edge over Bush 
in the popular vote was only marginally greater than Kennedy's over 
Nixon in the still much disputed 1960 election. And Bush racked up a 
30 to 19 margin over him in the number of states won. Still, the 
massive support Gore got from blacks and Latinos in California, New 
York, New Jersey Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and the District 
of Columbia enabled him, without--at least for the moment--Florida, 
to top Bush in the electoral column.

Since electoral votes are ladled out to the states according to 
Census numbers, a presidential candidate need win only eleven of the 
most populous states to bag the presidency. This guarantees that 
black and Latino voters are major players in national politics. 
Clinton is a good example of this. In 1992 he relentlessly wooed 
black and Latino voters in California and it paid off. He won the 
state's 54 electoral votes. This is one fifth of the total needed to 
win the White House. During his re-election campaign in 1996, he 
visited California thirty times and met frequently with black and 
Latino political leaders and groups. They again played the crucial 
role in delivering California to Clinton.
Gore and Bush, like Clinton, understood that it's political suicide 
for a presidential candidate not to actively court black and Latino 
voters in the major electoral states. This election Republicans and 
Democrats pumped millions of dollars into ads in black and Latino 
newspapers and radio stations to tout Gore and Bush. The Republican 
National Convention presented their version of a diversity showcase 
in Pennsylvania in a naked attempt to convince blacks and Latinos 
that the Republicans champion inclusion. During the campaign Bush 
spent much of his time in California and Michigan visiting black 
schools and churches in Detroit and Los Angeles and mugging for photo-
ops with Latino and black community leaders. In the Deep South 
states, long thought safe for the Republicans, Bush had to wage a 
furious campaign to beat back the effort posed by the legions of 
black Democratic voters and officeholders to pry loose one or two of 
these states from him for the Democrats.

Gore exhorted Latino and black ministers, athletes, entertainers, and 
politicians to prime his campaign in the key electoral states. He 
prevented a total Bush western blitz with his apparent razor thin win 
in New Mexico by courting the state's growing numbers of Latino 
voters. The magnitude of black and Latino votes in the must-win 
electoral states even blurred the political lines between Republicans 
and Democrats on some social issues. Gore pledged to end racial 
profiling, preserve affirmative action, boost health care for the 
uninsured, increase HIV/AIDS funding, back massive aid to failing 
inner-city public schools, and make racially-diverse appointments. 
Bush soft peddled his opposition to affirmative action, and support 
of school vouchers, talked about boosting education and health care 
spending, promoting immigration reform, making racially-diverse 
appointments. On the campaign trail he kept black Republicans Colin 
Powell, J.C. Watts and Condeleeza Rice virtually locked at his hip. 
In 2004 the states will be reapportioned on 2000 census population 
estimates. California, New York, and Florida, with large and growing 
black and Latino populations, and the handful of other states that 
the Democrats bank on for their major support, will figure even 
bigger in their campaign plans. In the Deep South states that Bush 
won the number of black and Latino voters will also continue to rise. 
And their votes will translate out into more electoral votes. 
Democrats and Republicans will be forced to aggressively court, woo, 
and stroke black and Latino voters, and publicly support policy 
initiatives that benefit their communities.

Thank the Electoral College for that.











-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1391
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-08 17:36:27
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

jim, do you agree that slaves should be repaid for slavery? do you think 
workers should be repaid for exploitation? do you think students of 
segregation should be repaid for education?

when you first posted that there are some arguements that you can agree
with, but they can be beat by arguements countering it. (it being
reperations and self-determination) can you explain the arguements that you 
support without bringing up the better counters? i want to underrstand what 
you think.

joe


>From: jmluceno@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 21:11:26 -0000
>
>I wouldn't argue that in every case.  Do you support Pol Pot, just
>because he's anti-imperialist?  I don't.  I consider that to be an
>ethical question which transcends the question of so-called "self-
>determination."
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>wrote:
> > do you deny that every nation has the right to its own historical
> > development without being impeded by (european) aggression/plunder?
> >
> > of course every oppressed nation has the democratic right to its
> > self-determined state.  to argue otherwise is to defend the
>imperialists.
> >
> >
> > >From: jagross66@h...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 05:16:00 -0000
> > >
> > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
> > >determination &
> > > > the theft of national resources.  your celebrated "modernism" is
> > >the
> > > > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
> > >
> > >You're not actually saying that every group that can be defined as
> > >a 'nation' has an inherent right to its own _nation-state_, are
>you?
> > >
> > >Are you thereby defending the nation-state on principle?
> > >
> > >- Jeremy
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1392
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-09 22:22:53
Subject:Re: Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., jmluceno@e... wrote:
> Joe --
> 
> I think slaves should be repaid for slavery, but as far as I can 
> tell, the last of the slaves died over a 100 years ago.

Well, I would guess that the very last living American slave would've 
died in the 1960's.  There were probably at least a few thousand such 
people still alive at the beginning of World War II.  "But that's 
neither here nor there."  

Do your math, sonnyboy.

> What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have to 
> slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because slavery 
> was abolished.  

The best connection you can make would be that a great many Blacks 
migrated to northern cities to escape Jim Crow, and to benefit from 
the postwar industrial economy, in the 40's, 50's and to some extent 
60's.  'The Ghetto' was a byproduct of Jim Crow.  Jim Crow was a very 
immediate product of slavery.

But this could never be addressed through reparations, if by that you 
mean giving cash stipends to individuals.  Targeted public investment 
of various kinds as a sort of reparations is a different story.  
That, and certain cultural measures - eg, reforming the way Black 
History is taught as something discrete or separate from American 
History proper.  

Again, this would take the form of a revival of antipoverty and civil 
rights concerns, or even the 'Second Reconstruction' that was 
systematically abandoned after about 1974.  In that case, what you're 
talking about is an inherently pluralist, integrationist mindset.

> What are you going to do about racism?  You're going to throw money 
> at it.  Great.  Are you *really* that cynical?  All black people 
care 
> about is getting cash for slavery?  

I think if people support "Reparations", they ought to clarify what 
they mean in terms of public policy.  








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1393
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-09 22:53:47
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

reparations as full, entire $$ calculated of value produced from entirety of 
slave labor to be deposited in a black national bank.

& to include free education for blacks.

self-determination to mean the right of an oppressed peoples to determine 
their relation to their oppressor.

& specifically, at minimum, a black american plebiscite to determine 
precisely the afro-american relation to the US.

"what is the *immediate* connection betwen THIS word & THIS one? they have 
no connection becuase they have other words & spaces which separate them!"-- 
from the intellect of j-low


>From: jagross66@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 02:22:53 -0000
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., jmluceno@e... wrote:
> > Joe --
> >
> > I think slaves should be repaid for slavery, but as far as I can
> > tell, the last of the slaves died over a 100 years ago.
>
>Well, I would guess that the very last living American slave would've
>died in the 1960's.  There were probably at least a few thousand such
>people still alive at the beginning of World War II.  "But that's
>neither here nor there."
>
>Do your math, sonnyboy.
>
> > What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have to
> > slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because slavery
> > was abolished.
>
>The best connection you can make would be that a great many Blacks
>migrated to northern cities to escape Jim Crow, and to benefit from
>the postwar industrial economy, in the 40's, 50's and to some extent
>60's.  'The Ghetto' was a byproduct of Jim Crow.  Jim Crow was a very
>immediate product of slavery.
>
>But this could never be addressed through reparations, if by that you
>mean giving cash stipends to individuals.  Targeted public investment
>of various kinds as a sort of reparations is a different story.
>That, and certain cultural measures - eg, reforming the way Black
>History is taught as something discrete or separate from American
>History proper.
>
>Again, this would take the form of a revival of antipoverty and civil
>rights concerns, or even the 'Second Reconstruction' that was
>systematically abandoned after about 1974.  In that case, what you're
>talking about is an inherently pluralist, integrationist mindset.
>
> > What are you going to do about racism?  You're going to throw money
> > at it.  Great.  Are you *really* that cynical?  All black people
>care
> > about is getting cash for slavery?
>
>I think if people support "Reparations", they ought to clarify what
>they mean in terms of public policy.
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1394
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-07 23:52:38
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

"As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not convinced of 
the benefit of reparations for slavery."  -jim luceno

"I cannot condone national self-determination, especially not for the "black 
nation."  I reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed 
self-determination for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate 
over the issue."  -jl

"...Loss of national sovereignty is incidental...  -jl

"to say that Jim's analysis is the same as the Klan is an ultra-left error 
and a un- informed remark."  -keith joseph

how, exactly, are these positions different from open white supremacist, 
imperialist, klan analysis?

"How does saying he has a line like the Klan educate him or change his mind 
or even just contribute meaningfully to the debate?"  -kj

i think i made an educational argument, and that it was rejected fully.  im 
not trying to change peoples mind.  thats their own responsibility.  jim is 
an educated, relatively (i.e.--to his nationally oppressed neighbors on 
sanford st. whose rights & realities he denies) privileged person.

i will struggle with anyone to the extent they represent an objectively 
progressive position.  however, i will oppose & expose every backward 
position to the end, no matter who it comes from.  in this way, to unite 
with & organize the oppressed masses.

yr speaking to the wrong person about bringing together revolutionary 
intellectuals and workers.

"First of all,  most people are against reparations that's why
we have to struggle for it; otherwise we would already have it." -kj

this argument sums up the tendency to slander the people, as way to 
compromise with reactionaries, & then attack principled, working-class 
positions as "ultra-left" & "counter-revolutionary" as cover.

the only people opposed to reparations for the oppressed are the oppressors 
who would have to pay them, and comfortable, self-inflated, so-called 
"intellectuals".

even the republicans recognize the people are conscious of being robbed 
(especially oppressed nations of all classes).  this is why they sell 
"tax-cuts" against the "tax&spend" democrats, to "give back to the 
hard-working people what is rightfully theirs..."  how whitman beat florio 
to begin with.

the reason we don't have reparations is because of the army & the police, 
the ruling class state to which yr friend curtis is so loyal.


>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1980 22:37:00 -0500
>
>I thought that this was a good discussion. I advocate Self D and 
>Repartaions and Jim
>and I have debated it in the past. The discussion was actaully moving 
>forward, and
>many times Jim made the case for Self-D without even meaning to. For 
>insatnce when he
>says that the overthrow of reconstruction resulted in "pre-modern classes" 
>taking
>control of the Soutrh. That is the point, the relationship of 
>Afro-Americans to the US
>is not even at the level that should be achieved in democratic anti-feudal
>revolutions. Self-D addresses that very point.
>However, to say that Jim's analysis is the same as the Klan is an 
>ultra-left error and
>a un- informed remark. First of all,  most people are against reparations 
>that's why
>we have to struggle for it; otherwise we would already have it. To say that 
>Jim's
>analysis is the same as the Klan (even though you did not call him a Klans 
>man) is
>counter-revolutionary because it disorganizes the people rather than 
>organize them.
>Instead of drawing revolutionary intellectuals and workers closer togther 
>towards
>unity around a common platform it pushes them away towards disunity.
>I would take it as an extreme insult if someone were to say I had a line 
>analgous to
>the Klan given that I identify as a revolutionary, why would you expect Jim 
>to do
>otherwise? How does saying he has a line like the Klan educate him or 
>change his mind
>or even just contribute meaningfully to the debate?
>This is one particular example of an ultra-left trend of which the attack 
>on Curtis is
>but another example. This line is sectarian because it creates an enemy 
>where there
>was/should/could be an ally.   The defeat of this ultra-left line and its
>rectification along Marxist-Leninist lines will be a geat force towards 
>uniting
>revolutionarys in New Brunswick and in New Jersey and will go a long way in 
>  defeating
>the local Social-Democrat liberal missionary line that dominates NJFO and 
>the People's
>Campaign. If you can not maintain even an alliance with people like Jim and 
>Curtis (to
>name but two examples) the movemnt will not grow, no one will be organized 
>and we will
>have 5  organizations for four  people. Discussion is a good vehicle to 
>bring
>ideological clarity and unity but if discussion is just an excuse to force 
>people to
>accept your line with verbal abuse it becomes a servant of imperialsim.
>
>cliff smith wrote:
>
> > the theft of national "value" is incidental to the destruction of 
>national
> > "soveriegnty"?
> >
> > stealing something from you is disconnected from denying your right to 
>it?
> >
> > imperialism (or any social relation) cannot be understood only 
>economically,
> > & not also necessarily politically.
> >
> > the u.s. cannot control arab oil without 1st toppling national 
>governments.
> > else why eliminate allende?
> >
> > it is a white supremacist position to deny the national oppression of 
>Black
> > America.  j&j steals from everyone equally?  nb Blacks/Latinos are not
> > super-exploited/oppressed?
> >
> > what is racial profiling? a class question only? was diallo obliterated 
>for
> > being poor only? how to explaing the lynching of james byrd by poor 
>whites?
> > any lynching? the denial of democratic rights, education, jobs? the 
>vast,
> > utter impoverishment of the Black Belt (geographic Nation) south?
> >
> > u.s. imperialism does not merely steal labor power from Afro-America, 
>but
> > most definitely robs its national "value".  impedes its economic, 
>political,
> > & cultural development.  what is the relationship of benny goodman to 
>jazz,
> > of eminem to hiphop, of the nba to allen iverson?  who profit$ from 
>these
> > Black national markets?  sony?
> >
> > if yr serious in understanding these relations, start with dubois "black
> > reconstruction" & baraka's "black nation" or listen to some charles 
>mingus.
> > yr analysis now is that of the klan.
> >
> > >From: jmluceno@...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:13:28 -0000
> > >
> > > > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
> > >determination &
> > > > the theft of national resources.  your celebrated "modernism" is
> > >the
> > > > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
> > >
> > >No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real value from one
> > >country and its transportation into another.  Loss of national
> > >sovereignty is incidental to it.
> > >
> > >I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations in the U.S. and
> > >the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book and Huey
> > >Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say that if you like,
> > >but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and industrialization has
> > >long-since left the cities for the most part.
> > >
> > >What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are stealing national
> > >resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor power.  I'll agree
> > >to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a class question,
> > >not a race question.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > you have no national relation to sanford st.  however democracy
> > >means those
> > > > oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st & the US urban
> > >centers,
> > > > and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne Nations have the
> > >right to
> > > > politically & economically control those areas in which they are
> > >the
> > > > plurality. to determine their relationship to the US, which they
> > >have never
> > > > done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of all Black peoples
> > >in US.
> > >
> > >Alright.  So you're talking about political control at the grassroots
> > >level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of *race*?  Why?
> > >
> > >Do you extend this right to all local groups that identify themselves
> > >as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your brother's word)
> > >out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom want to form
> > >their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.  Should they
> > >be allowed to?
> > >
> > >Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of local government
> > >(returning rights to the states, to municipalities, what have you)
> > >has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say what you will
> > >about the United States federal government, but at least they
> > >enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More than what the
> > >state governments would have done.
> > >
> > >For that matter, why do you want to divide the working class along
> > >race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain people are unique
> > >based strictly upon their connection to some kind of cultural
> > >heritage or land, something that that *outsiders* cannot understand,
> > >sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity garbage is what
> > >every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi Amin spouts before
> > >sending people to the camps.
> > >
> > >Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?  Let's be real.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > you should develop a community consciousness at sanford st & demand
> > > > community self-determination against j&j dictatorship, which is the
> > >heart of
> > > > the demand "community control". not "work with j&j to solve
> > >problems".
> > >
> > >J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a community
> > >where people don't have power, and they'll exploit there.  Or better
> > >yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is your self-
> > >determination, then?  That's why you need to have an international
> > >movement that unites the working class across all lines.  Class
> > >alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat imperialism, then we can
> > >talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we need something
> > >concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest of the
> > >proletariat.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction by fascist
> > >terror. the
> > > > "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 hayes-tilden
> > >scheme.  where
> > > > is the 40acres & mule?
> > >
> > >Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than the return of
> > >power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the southern
> > >cracker who is about as modern flint knife.
> > >
> > >Face it.  If the United States government had enforced Reconstruction
> > >by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the U.S. army, that
> > >would have afforded them real local control and self-determination.
> > >Instead they passed it off for the states to decide who could have
> > >guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.
> > >
> > >How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you don't
> > >institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of federal force?
> > >What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it away because it
> > >does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?
> > >
> > >Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The line is drawn
> > >between the people who produce value, and those to reap the harvest.
> > >Not between black or white or geographical location.  Progress
> > >requires an ideological and political unity of the part of human-kind
> > >that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is the
> > >proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and real political
> > >freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You forget about
> > >the "religious" differences.  Save religion for history class about
> > >the middle ages.  Forget about color differences, because the idea
> > >that people are different based upon "race" is exactly the idea we
> > >want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of the
> > >superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being a part of
> > >the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.  Because you
> > >better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once redevelopment
> > >and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into enclaves in the
> > >suburbs.
> > >
> > >We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the power of the
> > >bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by balkanizing
> > >the United States?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Black America thoroughly meets the definition of nation: common
> > >geographic
> > > > area, culture, history, developed economy, as put forward first by
> > >Joe
> > > > Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.
> > >
> > >Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think about how Joe
> > >Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination for Lenin, and
> > >how he went and created an imperialist empire of satellites after the
> > >war.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > self-determination & reparations for women against patriarchy!
> > > >
> > > > self-determination & reparations for workers against capital!
> > > >
> > > > people vs. imperialism
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
> > > > >
> > > > >So if I want to break off and form a country out of Sandford St.
> > >down
> > > > >here, that's ok?
> > > > >
> > > > >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-determination.  I'm
> > > > >not following.
> > > > >
> > > > >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm down with radical
> > > > >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But where do you get
> > > > >reparations out of this?
> > > > >
> > > > >And show me how rejecting national self-determination and
> > >reparations
> > > > >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > self-determination & reparations are basic democratic rights and
> > > > >the only
> > > > > > "concrete" political basis for national equality.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > scratch a social democrat, find a white supremacist.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Joe,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not
> > > > >convinced
> > > > > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not
> > > > >heard
> > > > > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I
> > >can
> > > > > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement
> > > > >about
> > > > > > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came
> > > > >up, I
> > > > > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot
> > >condone
> > > > > > >national self-determination, especially not for the "black
> > > > >nation."  I
> > > > > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-
> > >determination
> > > > > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the
> > > > >issue.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or
> > >the
> > > > > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have
> > >never had
> > > > > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it
> > >belongs
> > > > >in a
> > > > > > >press statement on police brutality, something we are against
> > >in
> > > > >both
> > > > > > >theory and practice?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Jim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >                           NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S
> > >CAMPAIGN
> > > > > > > > >                           Press Secretary
> > > > > > > > >                           P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick,
> > >NJ 08903
> > > > > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S
> > >OUSTER
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
> > > > > > >Campaign,
> > > > > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and
> > >their
> > > > > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
> > > > >nationalities
> > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly
> > >welcomes
> > > > > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey
> > >State
> > > > > > >Senate
> > > > > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice
> > >Peter
> > > > > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
> > > > > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color,
> > >commits
> > > > >a
> > > > > > >hate
> > > > > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and
> > >severe
> > > > > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who
> > > > >turn a
> > > > > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent
> > >with
> > > > > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary
> > > > >Committee
> > > > > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that
> > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the
> > >state
> > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful
> > >practice.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls
> > >upon the
> > > > > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for
> > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of
> > > > >senators
> > > > > > >from
> > > > > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   In light of the facts that have, at long last, been
> > >revealed
> > > > > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's
> > > > >hearings,
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >need for community control over police is now more acute
> > >than
> > > > >ever.
> > > > > > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes
> > >that
> > > > > > > > >community control, including democratically elected
> > >civilian
> > > > >police
> > > > > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate
> > >crimes
> > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   The minority caucus of the State Legislature is
> > >already
> > > > > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if
> > >they are
> > > > > > >good
> > > > > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley -
> > >732/514-0610
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >-30-
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> >
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> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
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> >
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>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1395
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-09 23:00:03
Subject:Re: [nbpc] NBHA INVESTIGATIONS-URGENT
Message:


Last minute reminder.

Special NBHA Meeting Tommorrow, Tuesday, April 10th at 6:30pm at the 
Schwartz/Robeson Community Center at 37 Van Dyke Ave.

The discussion will be on why the NBHA is privatizing the Phase I portion of 
Hope VI.

Please come out to defend our city.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1396
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-07 20:10:03
Subject:Self Determination & Reparations
Message:

Jim- In Amiri Baraka's classic The Black Nation, which articulates the call 
for self-determination, he refers to "nation" in the organic sense 
(extrapolated from Stalin's definition to be found in "Foundations of 
Leninism") with the following critiera (to paraphrase):

A historically constituted people with a common land base, common economy, 
common culture, common language, and a common phycology.

If you look at what DuBois referred to as the Black Belt you will find these 
criteria met. (I'm not sure if he also advanced the idea to include the 
majority African American population centers migrated out of the Black Belt 
into 27 major cities) Importantly, nowhere is "Border" referred to, and 
certainly, nowhere is "race" referred to, as both of these are imposed on 
oppresed nations by oppressor nations, as the US on the Black Belt, or Black 
Nation.  Or, if you consider, for instance, the Navaho Nation, which was an 
opressed nation without borders until it was consumed within an oppressor 
nation, and forced onto reservations.  Consider, also, that in The Black 
Nation, Amiri calls for self-determination for not only the Black Nation 
(Black Belt, etc.) but also for the Native American and Chicano nations.  
And more lately, I have heard him advance the call for reparations not only 
for the Black Nation, but also for opressed whites in Appalacia!

Check out the Black Nation...it's around. Later, Matt



----Original Message Follows----
From: jmluceno@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 21:37:48 -0000

You fight against racism because it is a limitation of democracy and
progress.  Period.  You fight against anything that is an objective
limit to democracy.

I agree that blacks are oppressed in America.  Do they comprise a
nation, though, in the strict sense of the word?  I don't think so.

We have to broaden this conception of nation, anyway.  You cannot
base a nation on color difference or on religious difference without
falling into totalitarianism.  In the United States, this was the
initial mistake that whites made, and one could make the argument
that it almost destroyed the country.  In fact, the extent to which
they moved to make blacks a part of the United States democracy was
the extent to which white actually helped save their own country.

I regard any split along color, ethnic, or religious lines to be
essentially pre-modern.  It has no place in modern democracy.
Sorry.  That's the way it is.  If your idea of a nation, and what you
fight for, is not going to be 100% secular and universal, then you're
just not really progressive.

Are you an internationalist?  I hope you are if you're a Marxist.
Then why wage your struggle in anything smaller than the existing
nation state?  Don't you become an advocate of balkanization if you
want to separate one ethnic group from another within a country, or
am I misunderstanding your position?

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
 > why even demand that verneiro be removed? why fight racist
profiling at all,
 > and not work to advance upon the current positions being put
forward?
 >
 > the question of "community control" (if that is still the campaign
slogan?)
 > is a question of self-determination. that is, that the community
would
 > determine their relationship to housing, childcare, education,
police, &tc.
 > by democratically controlling these institutions. self-
determination is a
 > democratic demand and as DuBios stated - either america will admit
black
 > people on the basis of democracy, or america will cease to exist.
 >
 > do you disagree that there is an oppressed black nation in america?
 >
 > joe
 >
 >
 > >From: jmluceno@e...
 > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
 > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
 > >
 > >Joe,
 > >
 > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not
convinced
 > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not
heard
 > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I can
 > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
 > >
 > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement
about
 > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came
up, I
 > >would be against both of those lines.
 > >
 > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot condone
 > >national self-determination, especially not for the "black
nation."  I
 > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-determination
 > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the
issue.
 > >
 > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or the
 > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have never had
 > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it belongs
in a
 > >press statement on police brutality, something we are against in
both
 > >theory and practice?
 > >
 > >Jim
 > >
 > >
 > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
wrote:
 > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
 > > >
 > > >
 > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
 > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
 > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
 > > > >
 > > > >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
 > > > >				Press Secretary
 > > > >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick, NJ 08903
 > > > >? 732/735-1342
 > > > >
 > > > >
 > > > >
 > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
 > > > >
 > > > >
 > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S OUSTER
 > > > >
 > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
 > >Campaign,
 > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and their
 > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
nationalities
 > >and
 > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
 > > > >
 > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly welcomes
 > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey State
 > >Senate
 > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice Peter
 > > > >Verniero.
 > > > >
 > > > >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
 > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color, commits
a
 > >hate
 > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and severe
 > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who
turn a
 > > > >blind eye to such acts.
 > > > >
 > > > >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent with
 > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary
Committee
 > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that
Justice
 > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the state
 > >police
 > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful practice.
 > > > >
 > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls upon the
 > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for
Justice
 > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of
senators
 > >from
 > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
 > > > >
 > > > >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been revealed
 > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's
hearings,
 > >the
 > > > >need for community control over police is now more acute than
ever.
 > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes that
 > > > >community control, including democratically elected civilian
police
 > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate crimes
of
 > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
 > > > >
 > > > >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is already
 > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if they are
 > >good
 > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
 > > > >
 > > > >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 732/514-0610
 > > > >
 > > > >-30-
 > > > >
 > > > >
 > > > >
 > > >
 > > >
_________________________________________________________________
 > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com
 > >
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1397
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-06 17:09:56
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
Message:

how do you propose to "build a base in the working class community" behind 
the position "improve, don't break, the imperialist political machine"?




>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
>Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:48:06
>
>Flavio (& all)- With respect to the dedicated work that you and others are
>doing to advance the cause of the people's campaign and democracy, I
>maintain my vote of dissent on this issue.  Legalese aside, it all amounts
>to about the same thing...
>
>To wit: It is safe to assume that every PC member will subscribe to lists 1
>& 2 (in order to get the "official communications" as well as to stay
>abreast of the current debates) & many will probably opt out of the third
>unofficial, non-sponsored, non-NBPC egroup list, which is a transparent
>token gesture seemingly to sooth certain yay-voters' consciences.  This
>model immediately shuts out the general public who are not 'official
>members' of NBPC, which is contrary to the type of organization that we 
>must
>have--(I defer to Keith Joseph's stated defense of flexible organizational
>models rooted in existing community networks and institutions)
>
>Furthermore, what do "intellectual property" & "trademark law" have to do
>with the struggle for peoples democracy & freedom? (...and for all you 
>still
>willing to claim revolutionary democracy & socialism: letting "a hundred
>flowers blossom & a hundred schools of thought contend?")  This legal
>bourgeois jargon is intended to protect private property rights, not secure
>the democratic rights of the people! (ie: NAPSTER!) These concepts are
>diametrically opposed in principle and in substance.
>
>I have stated repeatedly and forcefully my opposition to BOL/SWORD's
>dogmatic attacks on Curtis, but I will not accept this sort of reaction on
>the part of the NBPC.  Is this or is this not a united front?  & if so,
>should we not expect "aggravating" even infuriating and contrary positions
>of all sort to be aired?  Again I maintain that the way to deal with a bad
>argument is to put out a better one--clearly & scientifically...and if we 
>do
>our job, that is, build a real base in the working class community along
>side the existing base in the university, then the people will decide for
>themselves what ideas work best for them.  But if we continue to set the
>precedent that dissenting voices will be silenced, then the PC will end up
>like the ass end of Kenny G's horn heard over the muted airwaves of WBAI
>Radio.
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Egroups
>Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:02:25 -0000
>
>Matt:
>
>I think you may have been misinformed about the vote regarding
>egroups taken on Saturday.  In order to safeguard the good name of
>the New Brunswick People's Campaign from dilution and/or tarnishing,
>in accordance with principles of intellectual property and trademark
>law, the membership, with two members dissenting, and one abstaining,
>decided that:
>
>1. there shall be one moderated listserv/Yahoogroup, in which a
>moderator screens all messages.  That list will be used for official
>NBPC communications, e.g. meeting announcements, minutes, newsletters
>etc.  Any person can read that list but only messages approved by the
>moderator will be posted.
>
>2. there shall be one members' listserv/Yahoogroup, unmoderated.
>Only NBPC members can post to that list but anyone can read the list.
>
>3. there shall be one 'open' and unmoderated list/Yahoogroup in
>substantially the form as this group where any person can post or
>read the messages.  This list will not be 'sponsored' by NBPC in any
>way and presumably, it will contain a disclaimer so stating.
>
>The precise logistical details, including the name(s) of these lists
>and what will become of the present list, is still under
>consideration.  This is not at all like the WBAI situation.  Ample
>forums for debate and discussion will remain.  However, by parsing
>this group into different forums, NBPC members and interested parties
>who choose to communicate by email will be able to better manage what
>kind of information they want to receive.  Likewise, onlookers will
>be able to make a clear distinction between what is official, what is
>members' debate, and what is other discussion concerning NBPC.
>
>
>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1398
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-10 00:35:55
Subject:Re: [nbpc] NBHA INVESTIGATIONS-URGENT
Message:

defend democracy in new brunswick, dump the republicans in the raritan river 
with large rocks tied to their legs.


>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBHA INVESTIGATIONS-URGENT
>Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 23:00:03 EDT
>
>
>
>Last minute reminder.
>
>Special NBHA Meeting Tommorrow, Tuesday, April 10th at 6:30pm at the
>Schwartz/Robeson Community Center at 37 Van Dyke Ave.
>
>The discussion will be on why the NBHA is privatizing the Phase I portion 
>of
>Hope VI.
>
>Please come out to defend our city.
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1399
Sender:"Mathew Levi" <ml@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-10 01:19:55
Subject:Re: [nbpc] NBHA INVESTIGATIONS-URGENT
Message:

> defend democracy in new brunswick, dump the republicans in the raritan
river
> with large rocks tied to their legs.
>

That's right!  Defend democracy, therefore destroy oppositional views.

Err, wait a second.  That doesn't sound like demo--

......<ker-SPLASH>








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1400
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-10 01:19:04
Subject:Re: [nbpc] NBHA INVESTIGATIONS-URGENT
Message:

JOE SMITH IS PROUD, KNOWING NOTHING, BUT DOTING ABOUT QUESTIONS AND
STRIFES OF WORDS, WHERE OF COME ENVY, STRIFE, RAILINGS EVIL SURMISING,
PERVERSE DISPUTING OF MEN OF CORRUPT MINDS, AND DESTITUTE OF THE TRUTH,
SUPPOSING THAT GAIN IS GODLINESS.
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1401
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-10 01:47:42
Subject:Re: Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> 
wrote:

> reparations as full, entire $$ calculated of value produced from 
entirety of 
> slave labor to be deposited in a black national bank.

It would make more sense to simply figure out what political measures 
need to be implemented, and then ascertain the cost.  Perhaps such a 
calculation could be used as a bargaining point, but it would be 
extremely difficult to get a remotely accurate figure, I'd imagine. 
 
> & to include free education for blacks.

But at this point you may as well simply advocate to have free 
college education for everyone.

> self-determination to mean the right of an oppressed peoples to 
determine 
> their relation to their oppressor.

What if the leadership of the "oppressed people" is self-interested, 
corrupt, power hungry, etc?  Who's going to be the spokesperson 
for "Our Culture"?  

> & specifically, at minimum, a black american plebiscite to 
determine 
> precisely the afro-american relation to the US.

How would you determine who is indeed an African American such that 
they could cast a vote in this plebiscite?    

Unlike reparations of whatever type, it seems that to do this would 
validate white racism (and racism generally) in a rather profound 
way.  Not to mention the fact that many African Americans would 
probably find the very notion of a vote to secede to be boundlessly 
offensive.  The Klan would certainly like the idea.

I presume this means that you consider integration or cultural 
pluralism to be futile, in any case.

> "what is the *immediate* connection betwen THIS word & THIS one? 
they have 
> no connection becuase they have other words & spaces which separate 
them!"-- 
> from the intellect of j-low

Oh, prate not -- what vulgar poppycock!

Yours,

J









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1402
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-10 12:24:56
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
Message:

JOE, WILL IT BECOME AN IDEOLOGY FOCUSED ON PERSONNEL WELL-BEING,
SPIRITUAL REDEMPTION, AND SELF=REALIZATION WITHIN THE EXISTING
SOCIETY???
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1403
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-10 14:55:03
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

jeremy wrote:
Unlike reparations of whatever type, it seems that to do this would validate 
white racism (and racism generally) in a rather profound way. Not to mention 
the fact that many African Americans would probably find the very notion of 
a vote to secede to be boundlessly offensive. The Klan would certainly like 
the idea.
I presume this means that you consider integration or cultural
pluralism to be futile, in any case."

cliff suggested a national plebisite, a vote, for the black nation to 
determine their relationship to their oppressors. expain how this would 
validate white racism in any way. cliff never suggested what the outcome of 
this vote should be, so i am confused as to why you assume he considers 
integration or cultural pluralism futile, can you explain why you put words 
in his mouth in an attempt to de-validate his arguement? also if the 
leadership of the nation is sold-out that is up to the nation to handle, not 
outside aggressive imperialist forces. do you suggest that US Imperialism is 
correct for attacking iraqi soveriegnty because they claim hussein is a 
ruthless dictator?

more specifically, are you for or against reparations and self-determination 
(the basis of democracy!) for the black nation and all oppressed nations? 
can you briefly explain?

joe


>From: jagross66@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 05:47:42 -0000
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>wrote:
>
> > reparations as full, entire $$ calculated of value produced from
>entirety of
> > slave labor to be deposited in a black national bank.
>
>It would make more sense to simply figure out what political measures
>need to be implemented, and then ascertain the cost.  Perhaps such a
>calculation could be used as a bargaining point, but it would be
>extremely difficult to get a remotely accurate figure, I'd imagine.
>
> > & to include free education for blacks.
>
>But at this point you may as well simply advocate to have free
>college education for everyone.
>
> > self-determination to mean the right of an oppressed peoples to
>determine
> > their relation to their oppressor.
>
>What if the leadership of the "oppressed people" is self-interested,
>corrupt, power hungry, etc?  Who's going to be the spokesperson
>for "Our Culture"?
>
> > & specifically, at minimum, a black american plebiscite to
>determine
> > precisely the afro-american relation to the US.
>
>How would you determine who is indeed an African American such that
>they could cast a vote in this plebiscite?
>
>Unlike reparations of whatever type, it seems that to do this would
>validate white racism (and racism generally) in a rather profound
>way.  Not to mention the fact that many African Americans would
>probably find the very notion of a vote to secede to be boundlessly
>offensive.  The Klan would certainly like the idea.
>
>I presume this means that you consider integration or cultural
>pluralism to be futile, in any case.
>
> > "what is the *immediate* connection betwen THIS word & THIS one?
>they have
> > no connection becuase they have other words & spaces which separate
>them!"--
> > from the intellect of j-low
>
>Oh, prate not -- what vulgar poppycock!
>
>Yours,
>
>J
>
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1404
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-10 22:32:32
Subject:bright's last post
Message:

this is joe smith. it is my mistake for the comments i made regarding 
frank bright being thrown in the raritan. revolution does not happen 
through personal/narrow attacks and to suggest that, as i did, is 
completely wrong. to remove bright as a person does not remove the 
republican influence over public housing. nor does it provide 
progressive motion for those that live in public housing, which must 
be my work. though the instict to attack republicans was my intention, 
revolution is not vigilanty actions. we must work to organize peoples' 
war on the right as a broad development that will work to raise the 
consciousness of the people to oppose and defeat republican agendas. 
my call was undisciplined and i accept full responsiblity. i will work 
to develop a more disciplined and clear position that can work to 
organize people to embrace revolutionary positions. my comments were 
narrow and not a proper representative of how to organize the people 
in public housing, let alone the community. i must work to put forward 
easily understood peoples' democratic positions while at the same time 
exposing republican agendas as being counter to the interest of 
democratic community control over the institutions that govern the 
community. i suggest to all paying attention to this to offer 
criticisms that will help to provide better ways to attack republican 
agendas in principled revolutionary platforms. that is what i will 
work to do.

joe







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1405
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-10 22:53:07
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Self Determination & Reparations
Message:

good response,

except that jim not only denies the existence of the black nation, and 
denies the right to reparations of afro-americans (whether nation or not!), 
but he denies the right of reparation & self-determination to any oppressed 
nation.  even those whose existence he recognizes!


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Self Determination & Reparations
>Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 00:10:03
>
>
>Jim- In Amiri Baraka's classic The Black Nation, which articulates the call
>for self-determination, he refers to "nation" in the organic sense
>(extrapolated from Stalin's definition to be found in "Foundations of
>Leninism") with the following critiera (to paraphrase):
>
>A historically constituted people with a common land base, common economy,
>common culture, common language, and a common phycology.
>
>If you look at what DuBois referred to as the Black Belt you will find 
>these
>criteria met. (I'm not sure if he also advanced the idea to include the
>majority African American population centers migrated out of the Black Belt
>into 27 major cities) Importantly, nowhere is "Border" referred to, and
>certainly, nowhere is "race" referred to, as both of these are imposed on
>oppresed nations by oppressor nations, as the US on the Black Belt, or 
>Black
>Nation.  Or, if you consider, for instance, the Navaho Nation, which was an
>opressed nation without borders until it was consumed within an oppressor
>nation, and forced onto reservations.  Consider, also, that in The Black
>Nation, Amiri calls for self-determination for not only the Black Nation
>(Black Belt, etc.) but also for the Native American and Chicano nations.
>And more lately, I have heard him advance the call for reparations not only
>for the Black Nation, but also for opressed whites in Appalacia!
>
>Check out the Black Nation...it's around. Later, Matt
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: jmluceno@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
>Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 21:37:48 -0000
>
>You fight against racism because it is a limitation of democracy and
>progress.  Period.  You fight against anything that is an objective
>limit to democracy.
>
>I agree that blacks are oppressed in America.  Do they comprise a
>nation, though, in the strict sense of the word?  I don't think so.
>
>We have to broaden this conception of nation, anyway.  You cannot
>base a nation on color difference or on religious difference without
>falling into totalitarianism.  In the United States, this was the
>initial mistake that whites made, and one could make the argument
>that it almost destroyed the country.  In fact, the extent to which
>they moved to make blacks a part of the United States democracy was
>the extent to which white actually helped save their own country.
>
>I regard any split along color, ethnic, or religious lines to be
>essentially pre-modern.  It has no place in modern democracy.
>Sorry.  That's the way it is.  If your idea of a nation, and what you
>fight for, is not going to be 100% secular and universal, then you're
>just not really progressive.
>
>Are you an internationalist?  I hope you are if you're a Marxist.
>Then why wage your struggle in anything smaller than the existing
>nation state?  Don't you become an advocate of balkanization if you
>want to separate one ethnic group from another within a country, or
>am I misunderstanding your position?
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>  > why even demand that verneiro be removed? why fight racist
>profiling at all,
>  > and not work to advance upon the current positions being put
>forward?
>  >
>  > the question of "community control" (if that is still the campaign
>slogan?)
>  > is a question of self-determination. that is, that the community
>would
>  > determine their relationship to housing, childcare, education,
>police, &tc.
>  > by democratically controlling these institutions. self-
>determination is a
>  > democratic demand and as DuBios stated - either america will admit
>black
>  > people on the basis of democracy, or america will cease to exist.
>  >
>  > do you disagree that there is an oppressed black nation in america?
>  >
>  > joe
>  >
>  >
>  > >From: jmluceno@e...
>  > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
>  > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
>  > >
>  > >Joe,
>  > >
>  > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I am not
>convinced
>  > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I have not
>heard
>  > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only arguments I can
>  > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments against it.
>  > >
>  > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a statement
>about
>  > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the debate came
>up, I
>  > >would be against both of those lines.
>  > >
>  > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I cannot condone
>  > >national self-determination, especially not for the "black
>nation."  I
>  > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-determination
>  > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate over the
>issue.
>  > >
>  > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's Campaign or the
>  > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we have never had
>  > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think it belongs
>in a
>  > >press statement on police brutality, something we are against in
>both
>  > >theory and practice?
>  > >
>  > >Jim
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
>wrote:
>  > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black Nation!??
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
>  > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE VERNIERO
>  > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
>  > > > >
>  > > > >				NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
>  > > > >				Press Secretary
>  > > > >				P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick, NJ 08903
>  > > > >? 732/735-1342
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR VERNIERO'S OUSTER
>  > > > >
>  > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's
>  > >Campaign,
>  > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents and their
>  > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
>nationalities
>  > >and
>  > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following statement today:
>  > > > >
>  > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC) warmly welcomes
>  > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New Jersey State
>  > >Senate
>  > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court Justice Peter
>  > > > >Verniero.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >	Any police officer who engages in racial profiling and
>  > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of color, commits
>a
>  > >hate
>  > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by swift and severe
>  > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their superiors who
>turn a
>  > > > >blind eye to such acts.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >	The removal of Justice Verniero would be consistent with
>  > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate Judiciary
>Committee
>  > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's satisfaction, that
>Justice
>  > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling in the state
>  > >police
>  > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this hateful practice.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >	The New Brunswick People's Campaign further calls upon the
>  > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution calling for
>Justice
>  > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan group of
>senators
>  > >from
>  > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >	In light of the facts that have, at long last, been revealed
>  > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary Committee's
>hearings,
>  > >the
>  > > > >need for community control over police is now more acute than
>ever.
>  > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and believes that
>  > > > >community control, including democratically elected civilian
>police
>  > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the hate crimes
>of
>  > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of color.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >	The minority caucus of the State Legislature is already
>  > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all legislators, if they are
>  > >good
>  > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley - 732/514-0610
>  > > > >
>  > > > >-30-
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
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>http://explorer.msn.com
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>  >
>  > _________________________________________________________________
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>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
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>
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>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1406
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-10 23:12:16
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

full & immediate reparations, unrestricted.

full & immediate self-determination means the right to decide.

to decide the relation to the the US.
to decide who is eligible to vote.
to decide all related questions.


>From: jagross66@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 05:47:42 -0000
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>wrote:
>
> > reparations as full, entire $$ calculated of value produced from
>entirety of
> > slave labor to be deposited in a black national bank.
>
>It would make more sense to simply figure out what political measures
>need to be implemented, and then ascertain the cost.  Perhaps such a
>calculation could be used as a bargaining point, but it would be
>extremely difficult to get a remotely accurate figure, I'd imagine.
>
> > & to include free education for blacks.
>
>But at this point you may as well simply advocate to have free
>college education for everyone.
>
> > self-determination to mean the right of an oppressed peoples to
>determine
> > their relation to their oppressor.
>
>What if the leadership of the "oppressed people" is self-interested,
>corrupt, power hungry, etc?  Who's going to be the spokesperson
>for "Our Culture"?
>
> > & specifically, at minimum, a black american plebiscite to
>determine
> > precisely the afro-american relation to the US.
>
>How would you determine who is indeed an African American such that
>they could cast a vote in this plebiscite?
>
>Unlike reparations of whatever type, it seems that to do this would
>validate white racism (and racism generally) in a rather profound
>way.  Not to mention the fact that many African Americans would
>probably find the very notion of a vote to secede to be boundlessly
>offensive.  The Klan would certainly like the idea.
>
>I presume this means that you consider integration or cultural
>pluralism to be futile, in any case.
>
> > "what is the *immediate* connection betwen THIS word & THIS one?
>they have
> > no connection becuase they have other words & spaces which separate
>them!"--
> > from the intellect of j-low
>
>Oh, prate not -- what vulgar poppycock!
>
>Yours,
>
>J
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1407
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-10 23:36:27
Subject:meet to protest targum
Message:

spread this call to action! fight white supremacy at rutgers!

referring to tuesday's targum opinion letter from white supremacist david 
horowitz, "ten reasons why reparations for black is a bad idea for black-and 
racist too" the committee to defeat racist profiling is calling for an 
emergency meeting to demand that the targum refuse ink to white supremacist 
spokespersons. the committe holds university president fran lawrence 
directly responsible for creating an atmosphere in which white-supremacy can 
be embraced at rutgers. his comments that black people are genetically 
inferior to whites is outright fascist and we must not allow the targum to 
fall to such standards.
emergency meeting wednesday 9:00pm 4th floor rutgers student center.
contact joe smith 732.586.5535 can_bush@... for ride or agenda 
topic. the article can be found by searching yahoo for rutgers daily targum 
- go to tuesdays april 10 opinion section.
the committee suggest that all persons call the targum to demand an 
explaination as to why they provide room in a student funded newspaper for 
white supremacists and demand that they publicly apologize to the student 
body. also e-mail news@... - let us flood them with our outcry. 
tell them you will be demanding your student funds be returned all $8.50 and 
suggest that others do the same.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1408
Sender:"Mathew Levi" <ml@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 01:04:06
Subject:Re: [nbpc] meet to protest targum
Message:

OH MY GOD!!

An opinion that differs from yours!!!

This is an emergency.  IMMEDIATELY DEMAND that the whole world shit its
pants and prevent the offending opinion from being heard.  Let's form an
army and march down to Targum headquarters.  On our way back, we shall have
the heads of all Targum staff members on sticks and parade them around in
New Brunswick as the masses cheer us on.

With Joe and Cliff Smith leading.  Just imagine it -- democracy in action!

> spread this call to action! fight white supremacy at rutgers!
>
> referring to tuesday's targum opinion letter from white supremacist david
> horowitz, "ten reasons why reparations for black is a bad idea for
black-and
> racist too" the committee to defeat racist profiling is calling for an
> emergency meeting to demand that the targum refuse ink to white
supremacist
> spokespersons. the committe holds university president fran lawrence
> directly responsible for creating an atmosphere in which white-supremacy
can
> be embraced at rutgers. his comments that black people are genetically
> inferior to whites is outright fascist and we must not allow the targum to
> fall to such standards.
> emergency meeting wednesday 9:00pm 4th floor rutgers student center.
> contact joe smith 732.586.5535 can_bush@... for ride or agenda
> topic. the article can be found by searching yahoo for rutgers daily
targum
> - go to tuesdays april 10 opinion section.
> the committee suggest that all persons call the targum to demand an
> explaination as to why they provide room in a student funded newspaper for
> white supremacists and demand that they publicly apologize to the student
> body. also e-mail news@... - let us flood them with our
outcry.
> tell them you will be demanding your student funds be returned all $8.50
and
> suggest that others do the same.
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1409
Sender:Zofia Nowakowski <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 10:48:51
Subject:Threats
Message:

I am glad Joe that you have retracted your threat of
murder, at least for the time being.  Perhaps if at
some point in the future you decide it would a great
way to start a "revolution" you will change your mind?

This is not about discipline or lack of discipline, or
principle or lack of principle.  This is about a human
being.  If you cannot see another's humanity and
accept their right to live, you cannot organize
people.  If people are simply tools for the
"revolution", they will not be organized.  Attacks on
a persons life, racist attacks, threats and
manipulation, all of which deny another's right to
exist and be self-determining, while oppressing them
often at the same time, all to serve some glorious end
cooked up in your mind, demonstrate to people you are
not capable of, or refuse to, relate to them as human
beings.  If you cannot do that, you've missed the boat
called life.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1410
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 11:14:10
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Threats
Message:

republicans put forward republican lines, not human lines. zofia, your 
"humanity" has no class divisions? understand that this is not about a human 
being, we must attack republicans and organize the people to do so. it is in 
my interest to get republicans out of the "boat".

joe



>From: Zofia Nowakowski <znowakowski@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Threats
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:48:51 -0700 (PDT)
>
>I am glad Joe that you have retracted your threat of
>murder, at least for the time being.  Perhaps if at
>some point in the future you decide it would a great
>way to start a "revolution" you will change your mind?
>
>This is not about discipline or lack of discipline, or
>principle or lack of principle.  This is about a human
>being.  If you cannot see another's humanity and
>accept their right to live, you cannot organize
>people.  If people are simply tools for the
>"revolution", they will not be organized.  Attacks on
>a persons life, racist attacks, threats and
>manipulation, all of which deny another's right to
>exist and be self-determining, while oppressing them
>often at the same time, all to serve some glorious end
>cooked up in your mind, demonstrate to people you are
>not capable of, or refuse to, relate to them as human
>beings.  If you cannot do that, you've missed the boat
>called life.
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1411
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 11:17:00
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Threats
Message:

I AGREE WITH ZOFIA
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1412
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 11:36:02
Subject:Re: meet to protest targum
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:

That's an incredibly bad idea.

Horowitz's ultimate aim, I think, is to create a popular reaction 
against nominally left or at least liberal academics throughout the 
universities in this country.  Like many neoconservatives, he's very 
opposed to the fact that the social sciences and humanities aren't full 
of outright conservative thinkers.  And he's opposed to the typically 
at least superficially left-liberal culture on campus.  

But it's hard to make this into a major political issue, to make it a 
prominent part of 'public opinion', because usually the universities 
are not a part of most people's daily concerns.  

This ad was an attempt, however, to do so.  He basically staged it 
knowing that students would protest in angry, often ill-considered 
ways.  He could then point to the protests and say, "See!  There's a 
huge Marxist conspiracy in the universities in this country.  Look how 
disgusting it is.  And the Left is really racist, don't you know!".

The last thing you want to do is to, basically, make yourself a tool of 
David Horowitz.  

Yours,

Jeremy



> spread this call to action! fight white supremacy at rutgers!
> 
> referring to tuesday's targum opinion letter from white supremacist david 
> horowitz, "ten reasons why reparations for black is a bad idea for black-and 
> racist too" the committee to defeat racist profiling is calling for an 
> emergency meeting to demand that the targum refuse ink to white supremacist 
> spokespersons. the committe holds university president fran lawrence 
> directly responsible for creating an atmosphere in which white-supremacy can 
> be embraced at rutgers. his comments that black people are genetically 
> inferior to whites is outright fascist and we must not allow the targum to 
> fall to such standards.
> emergency meeting wednesday 9:00pm 4th floor rutgers student center.
> contact joe smith 732.586.5535 can_bush@h... for ride or agenda 
> topic. the article can be found by searching yahoo for rutgers daily targum 
> - go to tuesdays april 10 opinion section.
> the committee suggest that all persons call the targum to demand an 
> explaination as to why they provide room in a student funded newspaper for 
> white supremacists and demand that they publicly apologize to the student 
> body. also e-mail news@d... - let us flood them with our outcry. 
> tell them you will be demanding your student funds be returned all $8.50 and 
> suggest that others do the same.
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1413
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 11:35:10
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Threats
Message:

JOE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT REVOLUTION IS. A REVOLUTION IS THE CREATION OF
,LIVING INSTITUTES, NEW GROUPINGS AND NEW RELATIONS. IT IS ALSO THE
DESTRUCTION OF PRIVILEGE AND MONOPOLY,[JOE DOE NOT KNOW ALSO, BECAUSE
HAVING MORE IN COMMON MR. JONES AND CAHILL WHO OPPRESS SO-CALLED BLACK
NATION WHICH I AND CURTIS ARE A PART.] THE SPIRIT OF A NEW JUSTICE AND
FRATERNITY, OF THAT LIBERTY WHICH SHOULD OVERHAUL THE WHOLE NEW LIFE OF
SOCIETY, 5THE MORAL LEVEL AND MATERIAL CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE MASSES,
PROMPTING THEM TO LOOK TO THEIR OWN FUTURE THROUGH INTELLIGENT DIRECT
ACTION.
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1414
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 11:39:20
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Threats
Message:

zofia-

this is as inane a statement as ive heard from you.

in the real "boat called life", the republican party is chief executioner of 
international genocide.  noone has the right to join this massacre, no 
matter how much some may be charmed.

if you really are concerned with the welfare of the poor & suffering, you 
will be honest as to what is the cause of the situation, and support all 
efforts to end it.


>From: Zofia Nowakowski <znowakowski@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Threats
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:48:51 -0700 (PDT)
>
>I am glad Joe that you have retracted your threat of
>murder, at least for the time being.  Perhaps if at
>some point in the future you decide it would a great
>way to start a "revolution" you will change your mind?
>
>This is not about discipline or lack of discipline, or
>principle or lack of principle.  This is about a human
>being.  If you cannot see another's humanity and
>accept their right to live, you cannot organize
>people.  If people are simply tools for the
>"revolution", they will not be organized.  Attacks on
>a persons life, racist attacks, threats and
>manipulation, all of which deny another's right to
>exist and be self-determining, while oppressing them
>often at the same time, all to serve some glorious end
>cooked up in your mind, demonstrate to people you are
>not capable of, or refuse to, relate to them as human
>beings.  If you cannot do that, you've missed the boat
>called life.
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1415
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 11:48:22
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: meet to protest targum
Message:

jeremy objects to the proposal that white supremacist propoganda, freely 
spread  through the student funded newspaper of the state university, should 
be protested out of existence?

i remember seeing jeremy read baraka's "death to the klan" speech in high 
passion at brower commons.  lets have more of that!

speak out against racist profiling & police brutality, 1may, brower commons.


>From: jagross66@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: meet to protest targum
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:36:02 -0000
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>
>That's an incredibly bad idea.
>
>Horowitz's ultimate aim, I think, is to create a popular reaction
>against nominally left or at least liberal academics throughout the
>universities in this country.  Like many neoconservatives, he's very
>opposed to the fact that the social sciences and humanities aren't full
>of outright conservative thinkers.  And he's opposed to the typically
>at least superficially left-liberal culture on campus.
>
>But it's hard to make this into a major political issue, to make it a
>prominent part of 'public opinion', because usually the universities
>are not a part of most people's daily concerns.
>
>This ad was an attempt, however, to do so.  He basically staged it
>knowing that students would protest in angry, often ill-considered
>ways.  He could then point to the protests and say, "See!  There's a
>huge Marxist conspiracy in the universities in this country.  Look how
>disgusting it is.  And the Left is really racist, don't you know!".
>
>The last thing you want to do is to, basically, make yourself a tool of
>David Horowitz.
>
>Yours,
>
>Jeremy
>
>
>
> > spread this call to action! fight white supremacy at rutgers!
> >
> > referring to tuesday's targum opinion letter from white supremacist 
>david
> > horowitz, "ten reasons why reparations for black is a bad idea for 
>black-and
> > racist too" the committee to defeat racist profiling is calling for an
> > emergency meeting to demand that the targum refuse ink to white 
>supremacist
> > spokespersons. the committe holds university president fran lawrence
> > directly responsible for creating an atmosphere in which white-supremacy 
>can
> > be embraced at rutgers. his comments that black people are genetically
> > inferior to whites is outright fascist and we must not allow the targum 
>to
> > fall to such standards.
> > emergency meeting wednesday 9:00pm 4th floor rutgers student center.
> > contact joe smith 732.586.5535 can_bush@h... for ride or agenda
> > topic. the article can be found by searching yahoo for rutgers daily 
>targum
> > - go to tuesdays april 10 opinion section.
> > the committee suggest that all persons call the targum to demand an
> > explaination as to why they provide room in a student funded newspaper 
>for
> > white supremacists and demand that they publicly apologize to the 
>student
> > body. also e-mail news@d... - let us flood them with our outcry.
> > tell them you will be demanding your student funds be returned all $8.50 
>and
> > suggest that others do the same.
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1416
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 11:50:45
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Threats
Message:

CLIFF, I THOUGHT A REVOLUTION IS ORGANIZATION OF ALL PUBLIC SERVICES BY
THOSE WORKING IN THEM, IN THEIR INTEREST AS MUCH AS IN THE PUBLIC'S
INTEREST.
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1417
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 11:54:27
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: meet to protest targum
Message:

1. demand the targum refuse ink to white supremacists

2. hold university president francis lawrence directly responsible for 
creating an invironment in which rutgers papers would embrace white 
supremacists. "blacks are genetically inferior to whites..."

3. demand from the targum Reparations for printing harawitz agenda. feature 
section to promote black & all national, women, white working class stories 
to run at least once a week.

4. propoganda and agitation to promote march may 16 to defeat racist 
profiling & police brutality. propoganda and agitation to promote defeating 
the republican candidate for governor.

jeremy i do not accept your criticism, where is your better proposal?
do people understand that criticism means nothing if there is no better 
proposal to the one that is criticized?


>From: jagross66@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: meet to protest targum
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:36:02 -0000
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>
>That's an incredibly bad idea.
>
>Horowitz's ultimate aim, I think, is to create a popular reaction
>against nominally left or at least liberal academics throughout the
>universities in this country.  Like many neoconservatives, he's very
>opposed to the fact that the social sciences and humanities aren't full
>of outright conservative thinkers.  And he's opposed to the typically
>at least superficially left-liberal culture on campus.
>
>But it's hard to make this into a major political issue, to make it a
>prominent part of 'public opinion', because usually the universities
>are not a part of most people's daily concerns.
>
>This ad was an attempt, however, to do so.  He basically staged it
>knowing that students would protest in angry, often ill-considered
>ways.  He could then point to the protests and say, "See!  There's a
>huge Marxist conspiracy in the universities in this country.  Look how
>disgusting it is.  And the Left is really racist, don't you know!".
>
>The last thing you want to do is to, basically, make yourself a tool of
>David Horowitz.
>
>Yours,
>
>Jeremy
>
>
>
> > spread this call to action! fight white supremacy at rutgers!
> >
> > referring to tuesday's targum opinion letter from white supremacist 
>david
> > horowitz, "ten reasons why reparations for black is a bad idea for 
>black-and
> > racist too" the committee to defeat racist profiling is calling for an
> > emergency meeting to demand that the targum refuse ink to white 
>supremacist
> > spokespersons. the committe holds university president fran lawrence
> > directly responsible for creating an atmosphere in which white-supremacy 
>can
> > be embraced at rutgers. his comments that black people are genetically
> > inferior to whites is outright fascist and we must not allow the targum 
>to
> > fall to such standards.
> > emergency meeting wednesday 9:00pm 4th floor rutgers student center.
> > contact joe smith 732.586.5535 can_bush@h... for ride or agenda
> > topic. the article can be found by searching yahoo for rutgers daily 
>targum
> > - go to tuesdays april 10 opinion section.
> > the committee suggest that all persons call the targum to demand an
> > explaination as to why they provide room in a student funded newspaper 
>for
> > white supremacists and demand that they publicly apologize to the 
>student
> > body. also e-mail news@d... - let us flood them with our outcry.
> > tell them you will be demanding your student funds be returned all $8.50 
>and
> > suggest that others do the same.
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1418
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 11:55:37
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Threats
Message:

Republicans in the Garbage Can!


>From: TRACYFORD1420@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Threats
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:35:10 -0400 (EDT)
>
>JOE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT REVOLUTION IS. A REVOLUTION IS THE CREATION OF
>,LIVING INSTITUTES, NEW GROUPINGS AND NEW RELATIONS. IT IS ALSO THE
>DESTRUCTION OF PRIVILEGE AND MONOPOLY,[JOE DOE NOT KNOW ALSO, BECAUSE
>HAVING MORE IN COMMON MR. JONES AND CAHILL WHO OPPRESS SO-CALLED BLACK
>NATION WHICH I AND CURTIS ARE A PART.] THE SPIRIT OF A NEW JUSTICE AND
>FRATERNITY, OF THAT LIBERTY WHICH SHOULD OVERHAUL THE WHOLE NEW LIFE OF
>SOCIETY, 5THE MORAL LEVEL AND MATERIAL CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE MASSES,
>PROMPTING THEM TO LOOK TO THEIR OWN FUTURE THROUGH INTELLIGENT DIRECT
>ACTION.
>TRACY FORD
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1419
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 12:11:29
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Threats
Message:

ya mean for instance, that the employees of pse&g wd get together w/ 
the american federation of state, county, & municipal employees, the 
national education association, & the fire dept.,  to co-ordinate 
utilities with gov't apparatus & schools, to everyone's advantage?

well, in part, yes, revolution is a question of the workers' power 
over the state & social infrastructure.  

but more, it is the organization of the whole people to seize control 
of the world's wealth & resources so to organize things around our 
needs, rather than around the profit drive of monopoly imperialism.

it is true that the democrats are part of the oppression of the black 
nation, 2nd only to the republicans, but joe is correct to attack the 
republican organization as the foremost obstacle to social progress.

build the Peoples' Democratic Workers' Party!

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., TRACYFORD1420@W... wrote:
> CLIFF, I THOUGHT A REVOLUTION IS ORGANIZATION OF ALL PUBLIC SERVICES 
BY
> THOSE WORKING IN THEM, IN THEIR INTEREST AS MUCH AS IN THE PUBLIC'S
> INTEREST.
> TRACY FORD
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1420
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 12:17:29
Subject:targum gives free space to white supremacist propoganda
Message:

"Ten Reasons Why Reparations for Blacks Is a Bad Idea for
                          Blacks  and Racist, Too" 
                          Editor's Note: The ideas expressed in this 
commentary, as in any commentary run on these pages, are
                          not indicative of those of The Daily Targum. 
The commentary is provided here as a service to our
                          readers, so that they may be informed and 
form their own opinions about an issue causing controversy
                          around the nation. The text below was 
received in advertisement form and has been run as such in
                          college newspapers around the country. The 
Daily Targum refused to run this piece as an
                          advertisement. It is The Daily Targum's 
policy to provide an open forum for debate on the Opinions page
                          for issues concerning the University 
community, and to help students become more aware of the issues
                          concerning the world around them. Again, as 
a service to the University community, to allow our
                          readers to see what colleges, newspapers and 
the public around the country are debating, below
                          appears the exact text from the 
controversial David Horowitz advertisement concerning reparations for
                          slavery. 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1421
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 13:22:50
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Threats
Message:

very eloquent definition of revolution, tracy!


>From: TRACYFORD1420@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Threats
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:35:10 -0400 (EDT)
>
>JOE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT REVOLUTION IS. A REVOLUTION IS THE CREATION OF
>,LIVING INSTITUTES, NEW GROUPINGS AND NEW RELATIONS. IT IS ALSO THE
>DESTRUCTION OF PRIVILEGE AND MONOPOLY,[JOE DOE NOT KNOW ALSO, BECAUSE
>HAVING MORE IN COMMON MR. JONES AND CAHILL WHO OPPRESS SO-CALLED BLACK
>NATION WHICH I AND CURTIS ARE A PART.] THE SPIRIT OF A NEW JUSTICE AND
>FRATERNITY, OF THAT LIBERTY WHICH SHOULD OVERHAUL THE WHOLE NEW LIFE OF
>SOCIETY, 5THE MORAL LEVEL AND MATERIAL CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE MASSES,
>PROMPTING THEM TO LOOK TO THEIR OWN FUTURE THROUGH INTELLIGENT DIRECT
>ACTION.
>TRACY FORD
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Post ID:1423
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-12 02:39:43
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Threats
Message:

THANK YOU, KRISTINA. I ALWAYS TRY TO THE RIGHT THING.
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1424
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-12 03:31:17
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Threats
Message:

FOR MANY DECEIVERS ARE ENTER INTO NEW BRUNSWICK AND CONFESS TO BE
REVOLUTIONARIES. THESE ARE DECEIVERS AND THEIR ANTICHRIST WHO LEAD THEM.
I WANT TO ORGANIZE THE UNORGANIZED. BUT WE MUST BE ORGANIZE OURSELVES.
KEITH KNOW THAT JOE DOES NOT HAVE SELF-CONTROLLED AND IF HE HAD IT THEN
HE WOULD NOT MAKE DEATH THREAT TOWARD FRANK BRIGHT. CLIFF IS MORE
PATIENT WITH HIS WORDS AND MIGHT CAN ENTER IN THE PEOPLE CAMPAIGN. THEY
MUST BE NOT BRAWLERS A ND REVILERS TO COME FROM BLOCK ON LOCK OR SWORD.
FRANK BRIGHT IS THE PERSON THE NEW BRUNSWICK DEMOCRATS FEAR THE MOST .
ARE YOU AFRAID OF HIM?KEITH, JOE, CLIFF, TOM, AND X. OBSERVE THE
OPERATIONS OF FRANK BRIGHT. HE IS SUCCESSFUL. HE MAKES NO EXCUSES FOR
HIS FAILURES. HE WORKS HARD IN A COLLECTIVE MANNER. YOU [PEOPLE WITH ANY
COMMON SENSE] SHOULD DO THE SAME.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1425
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-12 04:03:14
Subject:FRANK BRIGHT :THE MAN OF THE PEOPLE
Message:

I FEEL GOOD ABOUT WHAT FRANK BRIGHT IS DOING FOR US. HIS TRACK SPEAK FOR
ITSELF. I AM NOT SAYING THAT BECAUSE HE IS MY LOCAL REPUBLICAN LEADER.
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1426
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-12 11:37:34
Subject:Re: [nbpc] rain coats
Message:

i made no threat towards frank bright and the self-criticism i offered made 
certain that frank bright was not under attack from my previous statements. 
bright was successful at dividing the peoples' campaign in order to serve 
republican agenda. bright in no way cares one bit about promoting community 
control and he should officially be removed from nbpc as well as all others 
that violate campaign platform. i have enough discipline to put forward 
anti-republican positions, more than i can say for most.

joe




>From: TRACYFORD1420@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Threats
>Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 03:31:17 -0400 (EDT)
>
>FOR MANY DECEIVERS ARE ENTER INTO NEW BRUNSWICK AND CONFESS TO BE
>REVOLUTIONARIES. THESE ARE DECEIVERS AND THEIR ANTICHRIST WHO LEAD THEM.
>I WANT TO ORGANIZE THE UNORGANIZED. BUT WE MUST BE ORGANIZE OURSELVES.
>KEITH KNOW THAT JOE DOES NOT HAVE SELF-CONTROLLED AND IF HE HAD IT THEN
>HE WOULD NOT MAKE DEATH THREAT TOWARD FRANK BRIGHT. CLIFF IS MORE
>PATIENT WITH HIS WORDS AND MIGHT CAN ENTER IN THE PEOPLE CAMPAIGN. THEY
>MUST BE NOT BRAWLERS A ND REVILERS TO COME FROM BLOCK ON LOCK OR SWORD.
>FRANK BRIGHT IS THE PERSON THE NEW BRUNSWICK DEMOCRATS FEAR THE MOST .
>ARE YOU AFRAID OF HIM?KEITH, JOE, CLIFF, TOM, AND X. OBSERVE THE
>OPERATIONS OF FRANK BRIGHT. HE IS SUCCESSFUL. HE MAKES NO EXCUSES FOR
>HIS FAILURES. HE WORKS HARD IN A COLLECTIVE MANNER. YOU [PEOPLE WITH ANY
>COMMON SENSE] SHOULD DO THE SAME.
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1427
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-12 11:42:16
Subject:"black" is a country. amiri baraka, 1962.
Message:

"black" is a country

amiri baraka, 1962.

To add to a growing list of "dirty" words that make Americans squirm 
add the word Nationalism.  I would say that the word has gained almost 
as much infamy in some quarters of this country as that all-time 
anathema and ugliness Communism.  In fact, some journalists , 
commentators, and similar types have begun to use the two words 
interchangeably.  It goes without saying that said commentators, etc., 
and the great masses of Americans who shudder visibly at the mention 
of those words cannot know what they mean.  And it is certainly not my 
function, here, to rectify that situation completely.  But I do think 
that unless the great majority of people in this country begin to 
understand just exactly what Nationalism is (or at least that variety 
of Nationalism which is most in evidence among the smaller, so-called 
uncommitted countries of the world) they will pass from the scene like 
the boxer who "never knew what hit him."

The concept of "acting in one's own best interests" is certainly not 
unknown to America or the rest of the so-called Free World (which I am 
told includes Portugal, South Africa, and parts of Mississippi).  In 
fact, I would say it is just this concept which has allowed the 
Western peoples to remain for so long the richest and best-fed in the 
world.  No matter what people or countries had ultimately to suffer 
while they were pursuing these "best interests", the pragmatic 
efficiency of England, France, or the United States in accomplishing 
such ends is almost legendary.  Weird historical "music," in the 
so-called Opium Wars in China (Britain), the "defense" of the Suez 
Canal (Britain/France), the Spanish-American and Castro-American Wars 
(United States)-some examples, both recent and long past, of this 
"best interests" doctrine as applied by the West-leaps immediately to 
mind.  And these kinds of activities can also be included within the 
definition of Nationalism.  So it seems strange at first to see 
Westerners squirming at the mention of a concept and/or practice they 
themselves have been most responsible for perfecting.  There is a 
comic analogy in the fact that in con man language "savage" means 
"sucker."

The "rub," of course, is that when another people or country, who have 
been used or exploited because it served the best interests of a 
Western power, suddenly become politically and/or physically powerful 
enough to begin talking about their own best interests, which of 
course are usually in direct opposition to the wishes of their 
exploiters, it is then that Nationalism becomes a dirty word-one to be 
stricken from as many minds as possible, by whatever methods.  (To my 
mind , it is absurd to think for a moment that the people who killed 
Patrice Lumumba thought he was a Communist.  They understood exactly 
what he was.)  And it seems a simple enough conclusion to me that most 
of the so-called "hotspots" in the world are caused by this same 
conflict of "nationalism," even in our own South.  (An historical 
aside: The Civil War in the United States was of course the victory of 
the industrial interests in the country over the agricultural-a kind 
of nationalism.  For these same reasons, any white racist in the South 
today who suddenly, for whatever hypocritical reasons, became strong 
enough to convince some large part of the white South that secession 
was the only way to solve the South's problems would be disposed of by 
the tobacco people, etc., in short order.  More "Nationalism."  The 
conflict of interests.

What I am driving at is the fact that to me the Africans, Asians, and 
Latin Americans who are news today because of their nationalism, i.e., 
the militant espousal of the doctrine of serving one's own people's 
interests before those of a foreign country, e.g., the United States, 
are exactly the examples the black man in this country should use in 
his struggle for independence.  (And tht is what the struggle remains, 
for independence-from the political, economic, social, spiritual, and 
psychological domination of the white man.  Put more simply, the 
struggle moves to make certain that no man has the right to dictate 
the life of another man.  The struggle is not simply for "equality," 
or "better jobs," or "better schools," and the rest of those 
half-hearted liberal cliches; it is to completely free the black man 
from the domination of the white man.  Nothing else.  The man who asks 
the question "Would You Let Your Daughter Marry One?" must realize 
that that question is generally outmoded.  The question now for those 
same people becomes "What Would I do If One Turned My Daughter Down?" 
 It is the freedom to make the choice that is my insistence, and the 
insistence, I hope, of most black Americans.)  And it is the new 
nationalists everywhere who are pointing out dramatically the road our 
own struggle must take.  In America, black is a country.  The Cubans 
are attacked by this country because they refuse to let themselves be 
used solely to further in Industrial interests of this country.  
Communism is not the issue.  Lumumba was killed because he resisted 
the designs of the new-colonialists to continue to make money from the 
labors of the African.  Communism, again, was not the issue.

The black man has been separated and made to live in his own country 
of color.  If you are black the only roads into the mainland of 
American life are through subservience, cowardice, and the loss of 
manhood.  Those are the white man's roads.  It is time we built our 
own.  America is as much a black country as a white one.  The lives 
and destinies of the white American are bound up inextricably with 
those of the black American, even though the latter has been forced 
for hundred of years to inhabit the lonely country of black.  It is 
time we impressed the white man with the nature of his ills, as well 
as the nature of our own.  The Negro's struggle in America is only a 
microcosm of the struggle of the new countries all over the world.

The idea of "passive" resistance is not the answer.  It is an Indian 
"rope trick" that cannot be applied in this scientific country.  No 
one believes in magic anymore.  The Christian church cannot help us.  
The new nationalists all over the world have learned to be suspicious 
of "Christianity."  Christ and the Dollar Sign have gotten mixed up in 
their minds, and they know that the latter is the enemy.  It is time 
black Americans got those two confused as well.  The idea of the "all 
black society" within the superstructure of an all white society is 
useless as well (even if it were possible).  We are Americans, which 
is our strength as well as our desperation.  The struggle is for 
independence, not separation-or assimilation for that matter.  Do what 
you want to with your lifewhen you can.  I want to be independent of 
black men just as much as I want independence from the white.  It is 
just that achieving the latter involves all black men, or at least 
those who have not already taken those available roads into the 
mainstream I mentioned earlier-subservience, cowardice and loss of 
manhood.

This struggle has first got to aim itself at those black men who have 
already taken those three roads to "success."  The "rubber stamps" of 
our exploitation.  Usually, as we know, thees rubber stamps are set up 
as our "leaders."  Official Negroes they are called.  Good.  Let them 
be official.  It only means that they are as sick and useless as 
everything else in this country that has, of recent years, been 
unofficial.  When we speak of the ugliness of American foreign policy, 
we cannot separate our disgust with that from the knowledge that these 
official Negroes, as such, must be the repositories of those same 
policies.  The best interests of the black man in America cannot be 
furthered by these puppets and messengers.  It is not in the best 
interests of the black man if another black man gets up in the United 
Nations and apologizes to that august body for the conduct of "his 
people."  It is not in the best interests of the black American if 
another black American suggests to the world that the only way in 
which his people are going to achieve their independence is to get 
walked on in public places or blown out of buses.  And it is strictly 
up to those black people who realize these things to come out and say 
them.  And we must act now, in what I see as an extreme "nationalism," 
i.e., in the best interests of our country, the name of which the rest 
of America has pounded into our heads for four hundred years, Black.










-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1428
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-12 11:50:31
Subject:Re: [nbpc] rain coats
Message:

FRANK BRIGHT 'S WIDE SUPPORT IS A RESULT OF HIS DEEPLY HELD THAT POWER
BELONGS IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE AND NOT POLITICIANS. YOU HAVE NOT
PRESENTED NOT FACTS ,JUST MISINFORMATION
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1429
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-12 12:12:24
Subject:"mother to son". women unite,take back the night!
Message:


Mother to Son

Langston Hughes

Well, son, I'll tell you:
Life for me ain't been nocrystal stair.
It's had tack in it,
And splinters,
And boards torn up,
And places with no carpet on the floor-
Bare.
But all the time,
I'se been a-climbin' on,
And reachin' landin's,
And turnin' corners,
And sometimes goin' in the dark
Where there ain't been no light.
So boy, don't you turn back.
Don't you set down on the steps
'Cause you finds its' kinda hard.
Don't you fall now-
For I'se still goin' honey,
I'se still climbin',
And life for me ain't been no crystal stair.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1430
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-12 13:06:34
Subject:Re: reply to Kris
Message:

a couple remarks on yr post...

1.
                "I do not think that Curtis's statement to the Home 
News was a big deal."  -keith joseph

can you be more specific in yr position? rather than to just say "not 
a big deal" & move on...

does this mean you agree with curtis' statements?

does this mean that, objectively, the statement "we're not here to 
break the political machine, we're just here to do better," and the 
futher offers to "co-operate with the health-care companies to solve 
problems in nb...," when put forward by an official representative, 
spokesperson, & candidate of the peoples' campaign, are not in 
contradiction to the campaign program, & the needs of the people? 

that, objectively, they no "big deal"?

or that you disagree with them, but weigh them against other 
considerations you think worth merit, which you feel makes them a 
"littler deal"?


2.
 
"I do think that it was a mistake to expel Bloc on Lock from the 
campaign. I think that we behaved towards them in the same fashion 
that they behaved towards Curtis. Their attacks on Curtis should have 
been criticized without breaking the unity."  -kj

when you say pc's "mistake" to expel us "behaved the same to us as we 
behaved toward curtis," & then that our "behavior" "should have been 
criticized w/o breaking unity,"  can you identify where our "behavior" 
ever suggested expulsion of anyone in the campaign during the 
election?

do you mean that our undeniable, open, public campaign support/ 
endorsement of curtis, even after expulsion, is in the "same fashion" 
as the pc's complete restriction & censorship of our involvement? as 
tearing down & covering our flyers? as alleging (from yr e-address!) 
that we were being "paid(!?!)" by cahill?  that we extended open 
invitation to all our activities, & to share our resources (bulk rate 
stamps, etc.) and the steering committee withheld even walking lists?

do you mean that our defense of the pc program, "seize power", is in 
the "same fashion" as the steering committee's endorsement of "not 
breaking the political machine..."?

in method, we brought our position 1st to a member of the steering 
committee (yourself) for discussion.  you sd the matter would be 
addressed.  we heard nothing back (as we had also not heard back of 
our criticism of fbright the week earlier).  we then presented our 
position for the consideration of the steering committee as a whole, 
at its next meeting.  this was our "behavior", which was within 
organizational unity, & appropriate toward unified organizational 
resolution.

our expulsion came from "executive order" w/o any public discussion, 
with no hearing of any sort.  further, individuals who had no role 
whatever in the development of our position on curtis were expelled 
for mere "association" with us.  over answering machine messages, and 
from sub-committee (women's caucus) meetings.  requests for written 
explanation are still ignored by the steering committee.

that the executive "purge" everturned the democratic peoples' election 
of joe smith to run the elected school board campaign, & to sit on 
both the tactical & steering committees, effectively recognizing his 
position as parallel that of the candidates themselves.  

that the pc's "elected board committee" turned in not a single 
petition signature toward placing the question on the ballot.  while 
we petitioned for curtis' ballot spot, even after expulsion.

that the "purge" resulted in the effective abolishment of the outreach 
committee, which was the backbone of the campaign, and its best hope 
for victory.

do you mean that our open, honest opinions (whatever yr disagreements) 
are the "same behavior" as historic njfo/steering committee 
subterfuge?


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> wrote:
> 
> Perhaps I have not been as clear as I could be. As you know I stated
> after
> the elections in November That we made mistakes. I certainly do not
> exclude
> myself from those mistakes. I was a member of the streering committe 
and
> the
> People's Campaign's candidate.
> I do think that it was a mistake to expel Bloc on Lock from the
> campaign. I
> think that we behaved towards them in the same fashion that they 
behaved
> 
> towards Curtis. Their attacks on Curtis should have been criticized
> without
> breaking the unity.
> I do not think that Curtis's statement to the Home News was a big 
deal.
> I
> think that it could have been raised to him that we are fighting the
> city
> machine and that we need to break it, I think that we could have
> discussed
> the position of the campaign towards J&J and used his remarks to the
> press
> to bring more clarity to that issue instead of just attacking Curtis 
for
> his
> statemnets. I think that expelling Block on lock was a short term
> expedient
> answer that dodged struggle rather than facing it head on.
>      In terms of the recent discussion I was spreaking of expulsions 
in
> refernce to the decesion to remove bloc on lock from the campaign 
list
> serve. I was at the meeting with you and I clearly remember And I 
hope
> it is
> on video for posterity that the discussion to create an new list was
> motivated by one desire and only one desire: to expel block on lock. 
I
> am
> very confused about it being spun in any other way.
>     In terms of a general trend towads expulsions rather than 
struggle
> for
> unity, I am speaking about the history of the movemnt in New 
Brusnwick,
> which has been quick to expel and quick to dismiss people who have
> decide to
> make a contribution in some other fashion or in some other city as 
if
> New
> Brunswick were the one and only city in which revolutuionary 
struggle is
> 
> taking place. (Although, at the same time I don't see anything
> revolutionary
> about being a dentist or herbalist or Ben & Jerry)
>    Cliff was expeled from NJFO because of his political line which,
> while
> it had an ultra-left tendency, also led the struggle against the
> formulation
> of "Maoism" and "the boycott the '96 election, both are worse line" 
of
> Arthur Henson (which was eagerly taken up by everyone else in that
> organization). The given reasons for Cliff's expulsion was (as X
> admitted at
> the last NJFO meeting) just a pretext.
> 
> The tendency to split or expel origniated with Arthur Henson who 
upon
> being
> criticized unceremoniously split from U&S. ( as AB put it ran home 
and
> took
> his ball with him). X did the same thing when Baraka criticized him.
> 
> I am not denying that Bloc on Lock make it very difficult to with 
them
> since
> any person you organize can may be attcked as an imperialist agent 
if
> they
> do not emrge into the movement fully armed with Block on Locks'
> interpretation of Marxism. Nonetheless, I don't think expulsions are
> productive. Lenin and Trotsky were in the same Party and Lenin wrote 
an
> article entitled "Judas Trotsky and the Trade Unions". We must 
struggle
> for
> unity not splits.
> 
> I also think taht it was a mistake to assist Frank Bright's 
political
> aspirations. There is no problem with him being an activist in the
> campaign
> but in my opinion he had way to much influence over the political 
line
> and
> direction of the campaign. This was my mistake as much as anyone 
else's,
> I
> think that it was a right error. It was done with only the short 
term in
> 
> mind.
> 
> As to the debate over an office/"Center of Democarcy" I attached a 
copy
> of a
> simialr project that I worked on two years ago. It was a debacle 
that I
> have
> no interest in repeating. I have made many mistakes but I try my 
best
> not to
> repeat them.
> I don't know if you have seen it before but it might be interesting,
> perhaps
> a similar budget is being drawn up now. I also have the "Break Even
> Anaylsis" if anyone is interested. First time tragedy second time 
farce
> as
> they say.
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> Projected Unity and Struggle Financial Report 1999
> 
> Office Rent ..$850.00
> Newspaper printing (2000 issues) .. $500.00
> Website $50.00
> phone$75.00
> staff..$1600.00
> Copy Machine .$50.00
> 
> 
> Other Projects
> 
> Journal (1000 issues)..$400
> Website (one time cost)..$200
> Mailing of 1000..$300
> Publication of Books and Pamphlets
> 1.on Paul Robeson
> 2. on Revolutionary Art
> 3.on the Black Arts Movement
> 4.Selected Political Essays by Amiri Baraka
> Videos (100)..$400
> 1.Self Determination
> 2.Collected Speeches
> 3.On Reparations
> CD's (1000).. $1000.00
> T-shirts (100). ...$350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> keith,
> 
> though i don't agree with your analysis on the direction of the 
campaign
> and
> the majority in njfo (missionary work, etc.) I respect your 
position.
> the
> difference in positions will work itself out in practice, as we all
> know. i
> do have a question though:
> were you not in the leadership of the campaign around one year ago 
when
> the
> decision was made to expel BoL? did you not agree/advocate that 
position
> at
> the time based on their actions against the campaign as a whole? 
have
> you
> changed your mind and do you now think that was a bad decision? i am
> increasingly perplexed with you and matt's use of "expulsion" as a 
major
> 
> trend of the "right-wing" leadership, when both of you were
> involved/agreed
> to those decisions at the time (thus making you both "right wing" as
> well,
> no?). It appears that you are taking things out of context, which is 
to
> say
> that BoL didn't get kicked out last week.
> 
> Kristina







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1431
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-09 22:06:27
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
Message:

check yr source, julie.  it came from curtis, not me:

"we're not here to tear down the political machine.  we're just here to do 
better."

& further quoted to work with nb "healthcare companies" to "solve the drug 
problem & other problems in nb..."

these are curtis' statements at the convention, to the hntribune reporter, 
immediately following his nomination victory as peoples' candidate.  he has 
never retracted them.

nor has the peoples' campaign, or any individual in the peoples' campaign 
criticized them.

now produce our "slanderous accusations"...


>From: Julie Poulos <juliepoulos@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...
>Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 07:23:12 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>--- cliff smith <cliffsmith69@...> wrote:
> > julie-
> >
> > produce our "slanderous accusation" against curtis.
>
>--- cliff smith <cliffsmith69@...> wrote:
> > him [Curtis] co-operating with the j&j & their political
> > machine
>
>
>You just did, Cliff.
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1432
Sender:Zofia Nowakowski <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-12 15:13:34
Subject:Human Liberation
Message:

From the Reevaluation Counseling website:

Copyright � 1995-2001 The International Re-evaluation
Counseling Communities.
All rights reserved. The Re-evaluation Counseling
Communities
719 Second Avenue North
Seattle, Washington 98109
USA  Email:
Home Page:
Voice:
Fax: ircc@...
http://www.rc.org/
+1-206-284-0311
+1-206-284-8429  


Propositions About Human Liberation

All presently existing human beings are very closely
related. All are members, not only of the same
species, Homo Sapiens, but of the same sub-species,
Homo Sapiens Sapiens, an even closer relationship. 

The most important physical variations that do exist
among humans, e.g., blood types, body structures, and
brain sizes, all vary more widely within each ethnic
or skin-color group usually described as a race than
they do between such groups. 

Each human being whose forebrain has not been grossly
damaged begins life with a far greater capacity to be
intelligent than the best functioning adult has ever
been able to demonstrate. 

The differences which do exist in the behaviors and
functioning of groups of humans are cultural, are
learned and acquired characteristics. Any human being,
given the opportunity, can acquire and master the same
culture and skills which any other human being has
been able to do. 

There is no human culture which is superior or
inferior to any other human culture in any overall
human sense, though there may be, and are, particular
outstanding richnesses in any culture. Some cultures
have developed farther technically in the mastery of
the environment than others, enabling them to be
misused to oppress members of other cultures as well
as their own people. This does not imply any human
superiority of such a culture. 

All societies which we and our ancestors have
experienced and participated in to date have been
oppressive societies, in which the results of the work
of most of the people was taken from them by the
ruling people by a kind of legal robbery. All such
societies to date have operated primarily to organize
this exploitation of the majority of the people by a
ruling minority. 

These class societies evolved as tools to master the
environment more effectively (using existing distress
patterns i --in particular, greed), and functioned to
that end through allowing some members of the society
time and leisure to think, to accumulate knowledge and
to plan the activities of the society. The principal
forms of class societies which have existed to date
are, in order of their evolution, slave societies,
feudal societies, and capitalist societies. 

Slave and feudal societies were able to be openly
oppressive, using naked force openly against the
slaves and less openly against the serfs. Since
wage-workers are more independent and better informed,
capitalist societies have had to be more subtle in
concealing and enforcing the exploitation and
oppression. 

One of the principal means used by classist societies
to maintain their oppression and exploitation of
people has been to secure the cooperation of different
groups of people in oppressing each other. This has
been done by installing and maintaining attitudes of
racism, anti-Semitism, prejudice, discrimination,
sexism, oppression of young people, oppression of the
disabled, etc., among the different sections of the
oppressed population. 

In this period, racism is the oppression that most
widely interferes with human progress. Racism has
destroyed many millions of people, it has forced
countless others to exist in desperate and miserable
conditions, and, for those that have escaped the
harshest effects, it has significantly diminished
their lives. 

Racism confuses and complicates efforts to overcome
other oppressions: sexism, economic discrimination,
religious intolerance, etc. Because of this, the
elimination of racism is the key struggle in this
period. Ending racism will release enormous initiative
for progress. 

The basic mechanism for keeping any person in an
oppressed condition is the installation upon the
person of a distress pattern or distress recording ii
by hurting him or her in an oppressive and
invalidating way. This leads to one or both of two
results when the distress pattern is, later,
restimulated iii. 

The first result is to be forced again into the role
the person filled in the original hurt experience. In
this case the person is pushed to "accept" or "agree"
to be oppressed, to accept the invalidating feelings,
to be defeated in his or her attempt to remain human.
The slave "agrees" to be a slave, the serf picks up
his hoe and bows his head, the wage-worker feels
inferior and "lucky to have a job." 

The second result occurs when, in an attempt to escape
the role and behavior described in the first result
above, the victim of the restimulation seeks relief by
"occupying" a different role in the restimulated
distress recording, the role of the oppressor. In this
case a white victim may turn the abuse and
invalidation originally turned on him or her upon a
black or other non-white person (the basis of racism)
or a male victim may turn it on a woman (the basis of
sexism), etc. 

An oppressive society actively reinforces both of the
results described above with false "theories,"
propaganda, discriminatory treatment of all kinds,
religious pronouncements, secret societies, etc. In
this way each group�s attempts to resist oppression
are discouraged and its confidence sapped, and each
group is mobilized to cooperate in the invalidation
and defeat of every other group. 

When any oppressed group begins to awarely organize to
achieve its liberation, the members of the group will
feel reactively attracted towards blaming and
attacking the other oppressed groups who have also
been mistreated and as a result have exchanged
oppressive attitudes with their group, fighting with
them as if they were the source of oppression and
leaving the real (and more threatening) oppressor
forces unchallenged. (Thus in the United States,
African-heritage and Latin-American high school
students will be pulled into gang wars against each
other, etc.) Needless to say, this tendency will be
encouraged by the real oppressor groups and the
society in every possible way. 

To attain complete liberation two processes are both
necessary: one: effective, organized social action and
struggle, two: discharge iv and re-evaluation v to
free each individual from his or her individual
distress patterns. 

The two processes are complementary and each enhances
the other. To fight intelligently against social
oppression is to contradict one's individual distress
patterns and expedite discharge and re-evaluation
provided one pursues one's Co-Counseling vi
systematically. 

To emerge from one's individual painful emotion
enhances one's effectiveness in social struggle and
helps avoid mistaken strategy and tactics based on
feelings, provided that one really engages in activity
and doesn't just settle for talking about it. 

To be successful, any oppressed group seeking
liberation must move in two directions: one: It must
consistently strive for unity within its own group
around a clear-cut program of goals and actions; two:
It must consistently seek unity and mutual support
with every other oppressed group, no matter how
difficult this task may seem at first. 

Every group of oppressed people can be reached to
participate in the struggle for liberation if we make
a thoughtful enough approach. 

The first job in uniting people for liberation is to
counter the fears, suspicions, antagonisms and
resentments that have been installed between us. This
means taking a sharp, clear (and patient) stand
against racist, sexist, condescending, and
invalidating statements and language of all kinds. 

In reaching for unity we all begin in a state of being
"afraid of" each other. We have been conditioned to
fear or be suspicious of anyone who is "different." We
can learn to love and trust each other but we must
begin with an attitude of respect, of complete respect
for every human being in the world. The love and trust
can come (and will come) later. 

Every group of people is important to the unity of the
liberation forces. Even individuals from the
oppressing classes are important and must be made
welcome if they really "throw in their lot with the
people." 

Liberation of any group will only be complete when all
oppressed groups are liberated. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i A distress pattern is a rigid set of "thoughts,"
behaviors, and feelings that is left by an
undischarged hurtful experience (or experiences).


ii A distress recording is all the information
(sights, smells, voice, tones, gestures, posture,
feelings, etc.) that gets bound together in an
unusable conglomerate during a distress experience and
then is played over and over (like a recording) in an
inappropriate response to a new situation.


iii Restimulation is the triggering of the recording
of a hurtful experience by a perceived similarity
(sometimes insignificant or remote) in the current
situation.


iv Discharge is a process of the human mind which
converts confusion from a distress incident into clear
thinking. The outward signs of this process are
several physical processes, among which are
non-repetitive interested talking, crying or shedding
tears, shaking or shivering, laughter, and yawning.


v Re-evaluation is the process, which occurs
spontaneously after discharge, through which the
information previously frozen in distress recordings
is understood and turned into usable information.


vi Co-Counseling is another name for Re-evaluation
Counseling, a well-defined practice of listening,
taking turns listening, and allowing and assisting
"discharge," which has the effect upon participants of
assisting them to think clearly where they had
previously been confused.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




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Post ID:1433
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-12 15:35:18
Subject:Re: [nbpc] The Masses Liberation
Message:

the biggest and most violent contradiction in society today is that between 
the people and imperialism. nbpc must put out an anti-imperialist position, 
which would force the hand of those whose agenda it is to serve imperialism 
and attack the majority of people in the world. such as how NBbush freaked 
out when at the convention i upheld marx and anti-imperialism. NBbush then 
nominated anti-reparations lucaeno to chair a campaign he has no 
history/connection to. NBbush & anti-reparations luceano lost the vote, but 
their victory was soon achieved when criticism of the untouchable, who 
worships a skunk, came out. the people v. imperialism must be understood and 
applied in all organizations that claim to represent the community. i 
question the fact that zofia sits in a position of leadership, in a campaign 
that claims to organize for community control, while she puts forward such 
crap positions of reality. nbpc must be led by anti-imperialists and the 
work must present that.

Republicans, more than any other group, represent imperialism against the 
people, and NBbush must go down! Dump DiFrancesco! Build the Peoples' 
strategic allaince with democrat mcgreasy while organizing & promoting - 
Build the Peoples' Democratic Workers' Party!

joe


>From: Zofia Nowakowski <znowakowski@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Human Liberation
>Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:13:34 -0700 (PDT)
>
>From the Reevaluation Counseling website:
>
>Copyright � 1995-2001 The International Re-evaluation
>Counseling Communities.
>All rights reserved. The Re-evaluation Counseling
>Communities
>719 Second Avenue North
>Seattle, Washington 98109
>USA  Email:
>Home Page:
>Voice:
>Fax: ircc@...
>http://www.rc.org/
>+1-206-284-0311
>+1-206-284-8429
>
>
>Propositions About Human Liberation
>
>All presently existing human beings are very closely
>related. All are members, not only of the same
>species, Homo Sapiens, but of the same sub-species,
>Homo Sapiens Sapiens, an even closer relationship.
>
>The most important physical variations that do exist
>among humans, e.g., blood types, body structures, and
>brain sizes, all vary more widely within each ethnic
>or skin-color group usually described as a race than
>they do between such groups.
>
>Each human being whose forebrain has not been grossly
>damaged begins life with a far greater capacity to be
>intelligent than the best functioning adult has ever
>been able to demonstrate.
>
>The differences which do exist in the behaviors and
>functioning of groups of humans are cultural, are
>learned and acquired characteristics. Any human being,
>given the opportunity, can acquire and master the same
>culture and skills which any other human being has
>been able to do.
>
>There is no human culture which is superior or
>inferior to any other human culture in any overall
>human sense, though there may be, and are, particular
>outstanding richnesses in any culture. Some cultures
>have developed farther technically in the mastery of
>the environment than others, enabling them to be
>misused to oppress members of other cultures as well
>as their own people. This does not imply any human
>superiority of such a culture.
>
>All societies which we and our ancestors have
>experienced and participated in to date have been
>oppressive societies, in which the results of the work
>of most of the people was taken from them by the
>ruling people by a kind of legal robbery. All such
>societies to date have operated primarily to organize
>this exploitation of the majority of the people by a
>ruling minority.
>
>These class societies evolved as tools to master the
>environment more effectively (using existing distress
>patterns i --in particular, greed), and functioned to
>that end through allowing some members of the society
>time and leisure to think, to accumulate knowledge and
>to plan the activities of the society. The principal
>forms of class societies which have existed to date
>are, in order of their evolution, slave societies,
>feudal societies, and capitalist societies.
>
>Slave and feudal societies were able to be openly
>oppressive, using naked force openly against the
>slaves and less openly against the serfs. Since
>wage-workers are more independent and better informed,
>capitalist societies have had to be more subtle in
>concealing and enforcing the exploitation and
>oppression.
>
>One of the principal means used by classist societies
>to maintain their oppression and exploitation of
>people has been to secure the cooperation of different
>groups of people in oppressing each other. This has
>been done by installing and maintaining attitudes of
>racism, anti-Semitism, prejudice, discrimination,
>sexism, oppression of young people, oppression of the
>disabled, etc., among the different sections of the
>oppressed population.
>
>In this period, racism is the oppression that most
>widely interferes with human progress. Racism has
>destroyed many millions of people, it has forced
>countless others to exist in desperate and miserable
>conditions, and, for those that have escaped the
>harshest effects, it has significantly diminished
>their lives.
>
>Racism confuses and complicates efforts to overcome
>other oppressions: sexism, economic discrimination,
>religious intolerance, etc. Because of this, the
>elimination of racism is the key struggle in this
>period. Ending racism will release enormous initiative
>for progress.
>
>The basic mechanism for keeping any person in an
>oppressed condition is the installation upon the
>person of a distress pattern or distress recording ii
>by hurting him or her in an oppressive and
>invalidating way. This leads to one or both of two
>results when the distress pattern is, later,
>restimulated iii.
>
>The first result is to be forced again into the role
>the person filled in the original hurt experience. In
>this case the person is pushed to "accept" or "agree"
>to be oppressed, to accept the invalidating feelings,
>to be defeated in his or her attempt to remain human.
>The slave "agrees" to be a slave, the serf picks up
>his hoe and bows his head, the wage-worker feels
>inferior and "lucky to have a job."
>
>The second result occurs when, in an attempt to escape
>the role and behavior described in the first result
>above, the victim of the restimulation seeks relief by
>"occupying" a different role in the restimulated
>distress recording, the role of the oppressor. In this
>case a white victim may turn the abuse and
>invalidation originally turned on him or her upon a
>black or other non-white person (the basis of racism)
>or a male victim may turn it on a woman (the basis of
>sexism), etc.
>
>An oppressive society actively reinforces both of the
>results described above with false "theories,"
>propaganda, discriminatory treatment of all kinds,
>religious pronouncements, secret societies, etc. In
>this way each group�s attempts to resist oppression
>are discouraged and its confidence sapped, and each
>group is mobilized to cooperate in the invalidation
>and defeat of every other group.
>
>When any oppressed group begins to awarely organize to
>achieve its liberation, the members of the group will
>feel reactively attracted towards blaming and
>attacking the other oppressed groups who have also
>been mistreated and as a result have exchanged
>oppressive attitudes with their group, fighting with
>them as if they were the source of oppression and
>leaving the real (and more threatening) oppressor
>forces unchallenged. (Thus in the United States,
>African-heritage and Latin-American high school
>students will be pulled into gang wars against each
>other, etc.) Needless to say, this tendency will be
>encouraged by the real oppressor groups and the
>society in every possible way.
>
>To attain complete liberation two processes are both
>necessary: one: effective, organized social action and
>struggle, two: discharge iv and re-evaluation v to
>free each individual from his or her individual
>distress patterns.
>
>The two processes are complementary and each enhances
>the other. To fight intelligently against social
>oppression is to contradict one's individual distress
>patterns and expedite discharge and re-evaluation
>provided one pursues one's Co-Counseling vi
>systematically.
>
>To emerge from one's individual painful emotion
>enhances one's effectiveness in social struggle and
>helps avoid mistaken strategy and tactics based on
>feelings, provided that one really engages in activity
>and doesn't just settle for talking about it.
>
>To be successful, any oppressed group seeking
>liberation must move in two directions: one: It must
>consistently strive for unity within its own group
>around a clear-cut program of goals and actions; two:
>It must consistently seek unity and mutual support
>with every other oppressed group, no matter how
>difficult this task may seem at first.
>
>Every group of oppressed people can be reached to
>participate in the struggle for liberation if we make
>a thoughtful enough approach.
>
>The first job in uniting people for liberation is to
>counter the fears, suspicions, antagonisms and
>resentments that have been installed between us. This
>means taking a sharp, clear (and patient) stand
>against racist, sexist, condescending, and
>invalidating statements and language of all kinds.
>
>In reaching for unity we all begin in a state of being
>"afraid of" each other. We have been conditioned to
>fear or be suspicious of anyone who is "different." We
>can learn to love and trust each other but we must
>begin with an attitude of respect, of complete respect
>for every human being in the world. The love and trust
>can come (and will come) later.
>
>Every group of people is important to the unity of the
>liberation forces. Even individuals from the
>oppressing classes are important and must be made
>welcome if they really "throw in their lot with the
>people."
>
>Liberation of any group will only be complete when all
>oppressed groups are liberated.
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>i A distress pattern is a rigid set of "thoughts,"
>behaviors, and feelings that is left by an
>undischarged hurtful experience (or experiences).
>
>
>ii A distress recording is all the information
>(sights, smells, voice, tones, gestures, posture,
>feelings, etc.) that gets bound together in an
>unusable conglomerate during a distress experience and
>then is played over and over (like a recording) in an
>inappropriate response to a new situation.
>
>
>iii Restimulation is the triggering of the recording
>of a hurtful experience by a perceived similarity
>(sometimes insignificant or remote) in the current
>situation.
>
>
>iv Discharge is a process of the human mind which
>converts confusion from a distress incident into clear
>thinking. The outward signs of this process are
>several physical processes, among which are
>non-repetitive interested talking, crying or shedding
>tears, shaking or shivering, laughter, and yawning.
>
>
>v Re-evaluation is the process, which occurs
>spontaneously after discharge, through which the
>information previously frozen in distress recordings
>is understood and turned into usable information.
>
>
>vi Co-Counseling is another name for Re-evaluation
>Counseling, a well-defined practice of listening,
>taking turns listening, and allowing and assisting
>"discharge," which has the effect upon participants of
>assisting them to think clearly where they had
>previously been confused.
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
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>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
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>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1434
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-11 10:09:01
Subject:Re: [nbpc] meet to protest targum
Message:

the call is to demand that the targum not use any ink to print white 
supremacist propoganda. this is not an OPINION that differs from mine, like 
a fight about the yankees lead-off man, but rather an opinion that puts 
people into graves. maybe some cannot tell the difference, i reach out to 
the more progressive forces inside nbpc.

joe

>From: "Mathew Levi" <ml@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] meet to protest targum
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 01:04:06 -0400
>
>OH MY GOD!!
>
>An opinion that differs from yours!!!
>
>This is an emergency.  IMMEDIATELY DEMAND that the whole world shit its
>pants and prevent the offending opinion from being heard.  Let's form an
>army and march down to Targum headquarters.  On our way back, we shall have
>the heads of all Targum staff members on sticks and parade them around in
>New Brunswick as the masses cheer us on.
>
>With Joe and Cliff Smith leading.  Just imagine it -- democracy in action!
>
> > spread this call to action! fight white supremacy at rutgers!
> >
> > referring to tuesday's targum opinion letter from white supremacist 
>david
> > horowitz, "ten reasons why reparations for black is a bad idea for
>black-and
> > racist too" the committee to defeat racist profiling is calling for an
> > emergency meeting to demand that the targum refuse ink to white
>supremacist
> > spokespersons. the committe holds university president fran lawrence
> > directly responsible for creating an atmosphere in which white-supremacy
>can
> > be embraced at rutgers. his comments that black people are genetically
> > inferior to whites is outright fascist and we must not allow the targum 
>to
> > fall to such standards.
> > emergency meeting wednesday 9:00pm 4th floor rutgers student center.
> > contact joe smith 732.586.5535 can_bush@... for ride or agenda
> > topic. the article can be found by searching yahoo for rutgers daily
>targum
> > - go to tuesdays april 10 opinion section.
> > the committee suggest that all persons call the targum to demand an
> > explaination as to why they provide room in a student funded newspaper 
>for
> > white supremacists and demand that they publicly apologize to the 
>student
> > body. also e-mail news@... - let us flood them with our
>outcry.
> > tell them you will be demanding your student funds be returned all $8.50
>and
> > suggest that others do the same.
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1435
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-09 22:18:32
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

"What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have to
>slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because slavery
>was abolished".

"And I stress once again -- the extent to which a nation emphasizes
>its uniqueness as a people based upon an innate sense of belonging to
>a culture that makes it different from "western ideas" or, even
>better, "white ideas", is the extent to which is supports
>totalitarianism."  --jim luceno

keith, care to ally yrself with this?
call me "ultraleft" but i stand with the oppressed black nation, and all 
oppressed nations against imperialism & imperialist apologies.


"On the other list you were just saying that you would help kick my ass if I 
made this argument on the street outside my house"  j-low

                 ^^^this is a lie.^^^

>From: jmluceno@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 21:20:11 -0000
>
>Joe --
>
>I think slaves should be repaid for slavery, but as far as I can
>tell, the last of the slaves died over a 100 years ago.
>
>What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have to
>slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because slavery
>was abolished.
>
>What African-Americans do have an immediate connection with is racism
>and capitalism.  They aren't impoverished because of slavery.  That's
>absurd.  They're impoverished because of racism.
>
>What are you going to do about racism?  You're going to throw money
>at it.  Great.  Are you *really* that cynical?  All black people care
>about is getting cash for slavery?
>
>You're being vague vague vague about this question of self-
>determination.  What are the boundaries that form the black nation?
>What is the geographical location that they have an ancestral
>connection to?  What do you mean by "community control"?  You're
>going to fight off capitalism by roping off the inner cities?  What
>does the inner city produce that anybody needs?
>
>Gee wiz, welcome to Dialectics 101.  You cannot isolate a phenomenon
>from the totality, or else it becomes one-sided.  One-sidedeness is
>exactly what the call for self-determation of the black nation is.
>
>Revolution requires that the proletariat have an awareness of the
>*totality* of the system of capitalist production.  It does not mean
>having an awareness of PARTICULAR cultural or ancestral heritage.
>And I stress once again -- the extent to which a nation emphasizes
>its uniqueness as a people based upon an innate sense of belonging to
>a culture that makes it different from "western ideas" or, even
>better, "white ideas", is the extent to which is supports
>totalitarianism.  If you're going to prove it to me otherwise, you're
>not going to prove it on the basis of history.  History backs me up.
>It abandons you.
>
>There is an implicit idea in Marx that we move toward a UNIVERSAL
>conception of culture.  Do you recognize it?  On the other list you
>were just saying that you would help kick my ass if I made this
>argument on the street outside my house, so I somehow doubt you do...
>
>Jim
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > jim, do you agree that slaves should be repaid for slavery? do you
>think
> > workers should be repaid for exploitation? do you think students of
> > segregation should be repaid for education?
> >
> > when you first posted that there are some arguements that you can
>agree
> > with, but they can be beat by arguements countering it. (it being
> > reperations and self-determination) can you explain the arguements
>that you
> > support without bringing up the better counters? i want to
>underrstand what
> > you think.
> >
> > joe
> >
> >
> > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > >Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1980 22:37:00 -0500
> > >
> > >I thought that this was a good discussion. I advocate Self D and
> > >Repartaions and Jim
> > >and I have debated it in the past. The discussion was actaully
>moving
> > >forward, and
> > >many times Jim made the case for Self-D without even meaning to.
>For
> > >insatnce when he
> > >says that the overthrow of reconstruction resulted in "pre-modern
>classes"
> > >taking
> > >control of the Soutrh. That is the point, the relationship of
> > >Afro-Americans to the US
> > >is not even at the level that should be achieved in democratic
>anti-feudal
> > >revolutions. Self-D addresses that very point.
> > >However, to say that Jim's analysis is the same as the Klan is an
> > >ultra-left error and
> > >a un- informed remark. First of all,  most people are against
>reparations
> > >that's why
> > >we have to struggle for it; otherwise we would already have it. To
>say that
> > >Jim's
> > >analysis is the same as the Klan (even though you did not call him
>a Klans
> > >man) is
> > >counter-revolutionary because it disorganizes the people rather
>than
> > >organize them.
> > >Instead of drawing revolutionary intellectuals and workers closer
>togther
> > >towards
> > >unity around a common platform it pushes them away towards
>disunity.
> > >I would take it as an extreme insult if someone were to say I had
>a line
> > >analgous to
> > >the Klan given that I identify as a revolutionary, why would you
>expect Jim
> > >to do
> > >otherwise? How does saying he has a line like the Klan educate him
>or
> > >change his mind
> > >or even just contribute meaningfully to the debate?
> > >This is one particular example of an ultra-left trend of which the
>attack
> > >on Curtis is
> > >but another example. This line is sectarian because it creates an
>enemy
> > >where there
> > >was/should/could be an ally.   The defeat of this ultra-left line
>and its
> > >rectification along Marxist-Leninist lines will be a geat force
>towards
> > >uniting
> > >revolutionarys in New Brunswick and in New Jersey and will go a
>long way in
> > >  defeating
> > >the local Social-Democrat liberal missionary line that dominates
>NJFO and
> > >the People's
> > >Campaign. If you can not maintain even an alliance with people
>like Jim and
> > >Curtis (to
> > >name but two examples) the movemnt will not grow, no one will be
>organized
> > >and we will
> > >have 5  organizations for four  people. Discussion is a good
>vehicle to
> > >bring
> > >ideological clarity and unity but if discussion is just an excuse
>to force
> > >people to
> > >accept your line with verbal abuse it becomes a servant of
>imperialsim.
> > >
> > >cliff smith wrote:
> > >
> > > > the theft of national "value" is incidental to the destruction
>of
> > >national
> > > > "soveriegnty"?
> > > >
> > > > stealing something from you is disconnected from denying your
>right to
> > >it?
> > > >
> > > > imperialism (or any social relation) cannot be understood only
> > >economically,
> > > > & not also necessarily politically.
> > > >
> > > > the u.s. cannot control arab oil without 1st toppling national
> > >governments.
> > > > else why eliminate allende?
> > > >
> > > > it is a white supremacist position to deny the national
>oppression of
> > >Black
> > > > America.  j&j steals from everyone equally?  nb Blacks/Latinos
>are not
> > > > super-exploited/oppressed?
> > > >
> > > > what is racial profiling? a class question only? was diallo
>obliterated
> > >for
> > > > being poor only? how to explaing the lynching of james byrd by
>poor
> > >whites?
> > > > any lynching? the denial of democratic rights, education, jobs?
>the
> > >vast,
> > > > utter impoverishment of the Black Belt (geographic Nation)
>south?
> > > >
> > > > u.s. imperialism does not merely steal labor power from Afro-
>America,
> > >but
> > > > most definitely robs its national "value".  impedes its
>economic,
> > >political,
> > > > & cultural development.  what is the relationship of benny
>goodman to
> > >jazz,
> > > > of eminem to hiphop, of the nba to allen iverson?  who profit$
>from
> > >these
> > > > Black national markets?  sony?
> > > >
> > > > if yr serious in understanding these relations, start with
>dubois "black
> > > > reconstruction" & baraka's "black nation" or listen to some
>charles
> > >mingus.
> > > > yr analysis now is that of the klan.
> > > >
> > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:13:28 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > > > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national self-
> > > > >determination &
> > > > > > the theft of national resources.  your
>celebrated "modernism" is
> > > > >the
> > > > > > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
> > > > >
> > > > >No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real value
>from one
> > > > >country and its transportation into another.  Loss of national
> > > > >sovereignty is incidental to it.
> > > > >
> > > > >I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations in the
>U.S. and
> > > > >the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book and Huey
> > > > >Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say that if
>you like,
> > > > >but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and
>industrialization has
> > > > >long-since left the cities for the most part.
> > > > >
> > > > >What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are stealing
>national
> > > > >resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor power.
>I'll agree
> > > > >to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a class
>question,
> > > > >not a race question.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > you have no national relation to sanford st.  however
>democracy
> > > > >means those
> > > > > > oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st & the
>US urban
> > > > >centers,
> > > > > > and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne Nations have
>the
> > > > >right to
> > > > > > politically & economically control those areas in which
>they are
> > > > >the
> > > > > > plurality. to determine their relationship to the US, which
>they
> > > > >have never
> > > > > > done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of all Black
>peoples
> > > > >in US.
> > > > >
> > > > >Alright.  So you're talking about political control at the
>grassroots
> > > > >level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of
>*race*?  Why?
> > > > >
> > > > >Do you extend this right to all local groups that identify
>themselves
> > > > >as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your brother's
>word)
> > > > >out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom want to
>form
> > > > >their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.
>Should they
> > > > >be allowed to?
> > > > >
> > > > >Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of local
>government
> > > > >(returning rights to the states, to municipalities, what have
>you)
> > > > >has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say what
>you will
> > > > >about the United States federal government, but at least they
> > > > >enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More than
>what the
> > > > >state governments would have done.
> > > > >
> > > > >For that matter, why do you want to divide the working class
>along
> > > > >race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain people are
>unique
> > > > >based strictly upon their connection to some kind of cultural
> > > > >heritage or land, something that that *outsiders* cannot
>understand,
> > > > >sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity garbage
>is what
> > > > >every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi Amin spouts
>before
> > > > >sending people to the camps.
> > > > >
> > > > >Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?  Let's
>be real.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > you should develop a community consciousness at sanford st
>& demand
> > > > > > community self-determination against j&j dictatorship,
>which is the
> > > > >heart of
> > > > > > the demand "community control". not "work with j&j to solve
> > > > >problems".
> > > > >
> > > > >J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a
>community
> > > > >where people don't have power, and they'll exploit there.  Or
>better
> > > > >yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is your self-
> > > > >determination, then?  That's why you need to have an
>international
> > > > >movement that unites the working class across all lines.  Class
> > > > >alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat imperialism, then
>we can
> > > > >talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we need
>something
> > > > >concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest of the
> > > > >proletariat.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction by
>fascist
> > > > >terror. the
> > > > > > "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 hayes-tilden
> > > > >scheme.  where
> > > > > > is the 40acres & mule?
> > > > >
> > > > >Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than the
>return of
> > > > >power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the
>southern
> > > > >cracker who is about as modern flint knife.
> > > > >
> > > > >Face it.  If the United States government had enforced
>Reconstruction
> > > > >by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the U.S.
>army, that
> > > > >would have afforded them real local control and self-
>determination.
> > > > >Instead they passed it off for the states to decide who could
>have
> > > > >guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > >How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you don't
> > > > >institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of federal
>force?
> > > > >What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it away
>because it
> > > > >does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?
> > > > >
> > > > >Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The line is
>drawn
> > > > >between the people who produce value, and those to reap the
>harvest.
> > > > >Not between black or white or geographical location.  Progress
> > > > >requires an ideological and political unity of the part of
>human-kind
> > > > >that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is the
> > > > >proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and real
>political
> > > > >freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You forget
>about
> > > > >the "religious" differences.  Save religion for history class
>about
> > > > >the middle ages.  Forget about color differences, because the
>idea
> > > > >that people are different based upon "race" is exactly the
>idea we
> > > > >want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of the
> > > > >superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being a part
>of
> > > > >the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.
>Because you
> > > > >better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once
>redevelopment
> > > > >and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into enclaves
>in the
> > > > >suburbs.
> > > > >
> > > > >We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the power of
>the
> > > > >bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by
>balkanizing
> > > > >the United States?
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Black America thoroughly meets the definition of nation:
>common
> > > > >geographic
> > > > > > area, culture, history, developed economy, as put forward
>first by
> > > > >Joe
> > > > > > Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.
> > > > >
> > > > >Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think about how
>Joe
> > > > >Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination for
>Lenin, and
> > > > >how he went and created an imperialist empire of satellites
>after the
> > > > >war.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > self-determination & reparations for women against
>patriarchy!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > self-determination & reparations for workers against
>capital!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > people vs. imperialism
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > > > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >So if I want to break off and form a country out of
>Sandford St.
> > > > >down
> > > > > > >here, that's ok?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-
>determination.  I'm
> > > > > > >not following.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm down
>with radical
> > > > > > >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But where do
>you get
> > > > > > >reparations out of this?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >And show me how rejecting national self-determination and
> > > > >reparations
> > > > > > >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith"
><cliffsmith69@h...>
> > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > self-determination & reparations are basic democratic
>rights and
> > > > > > >the only
> > > > > > > > "concrete" political basis for national equality.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > scratch a social democrat, find a white supremacist.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE
>VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Joe,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's Campaign, I
>am not
> > > > > > >convinced
> > > > > > > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That is, I
>have not
> > > > > > >heard
> > > > > > > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only
>arguments I
> > > > >can
> > > > > > > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments
>against it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on a
>statement
> > > > > > >about
> > > > > > > > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the
>debate came
> > > > > > >up, I
> > > > > > > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I
>cannot
> > > > >condone
> > > > > > > > >national self-determination, especially not for
>the "black
> > > > > > >nation."  I
> > > > > > > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed self-
> > > > >determination
> > > > > > > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated debate
>over the
> > > > > > >issue.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's
>Campaign or
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since we
>have
> > > > >never had
> > > > > > > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you think
>it
> > > > >belongs
> > > > > > >in a
> > > > > > > > >press statement on police brutality, something we are
>against
> > > > >in
> > > > > > >both
> > > > > > > > >theory and practice?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Jim
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
><can_bush@h...>
> > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black
>Nation!??
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE
>VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >                           NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S
> > > > >CAMPAIGN
> > > > > > > > > > >                           Press Secretary
> > > > > > > > > > >                           P.O. Box 131? New
>Brunswick,
> > > > >NJ 08903
> > > > > > > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR
>VERNIERO'S
> > > > >OUSTER
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New Brunswick
>People's
> > > > > > > > >Campaign,
> > > > > > > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick residents
>and
> > > > >their
> > > > > > > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents from all
> > > > > > >nationalities
> > > > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following
>statement today:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC)
>warmly
> > > > >welcomes
> > > > > > > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the New
>Jersey
> > > > >State
> > > > > > > > >Senate
> > > > > > > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court
>Justice
> > > > >Peter
> > > > > > > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >   Any police officer who engages in racial
>profiling and
> > > > > > > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of
>color,
> > > > >commits
> > > > > > >a
> > > > > > > > >hate
> > > > > > > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by
>swift and
> > > > >severe
> > > > > > > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their
>superiors who
> > > > > > >turn a
> > > > > > > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >   The removal of Justice Verniero would be
>consistent
> > > > >with
> > > > > > > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate
>Judiciary
> > > > > > >Committee
> > > > > > > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's
>satisfaction, that
> > > > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial profiling
>in the
> > > > >state
> > > > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this
>hateful
> > > > >practice.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign further
>calls
> > > > >upon the
> > > > > > > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution
>calling for
> > > > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan
>group of
> > > > > > >senators
> > > > > > > > >from
> > > > > > > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >   In light of the facts that have, at long last,
>been
> > > > >revealed
> > > > > > > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary
>Committee's
> > > > > > >hearings,
> > > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > >need for community control over police is now more
>acute
> > > > >than
> > > > > > >ever.
> > > > > > > > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, and
>believes
> > > > >that
> > > > > > > > > > >community control, including democratically elected
> > > > >civilian
> > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to the
>hate
> > > > >crimes
> > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of
>color.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >   The minority caucus of the State Legislature is
> > > > >already
> > > > > > > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all
>legislators, if
> > > > >they are
> > > > > > > > >good
> > > > > > > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >   FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa Coiley -
> > > > >732/514-0610
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >-30-
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
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> > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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> > > >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1436
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-12 19:10:37
Subject:[nbpc] Re: meet to protest targum
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> 
wrote:
> jeremy objects to the proposal that white supremacist propoganda, 
freely 
> spread  through the student funded newspaper of the state 
university, should 
> be protested out of existence?

Okay:  let's at least establish that there's such a thing as REAL 
white supremacist propaganda, the sort of thing you find being put 
out by "white nationalists".  David Horowitz is not _literally_ a 
neofacist, neonazi, or shrill, overt racist of that sort.  

If his positions are _structurally_ racist ... you can make that 
argument, easily.  But that's a different kind of racism.  It's like 
the difference between killing someone and letting them die, to use a 
rough analogy.  

I don't know about you, but I'd rather make it possible to 
distinguish between David Horowitz and, say, that Barrett guy or the 
Ku Klux Klan.  There's enough of those people that they deserve their 
own special designation.  

And, in any case, if you seek to protest the _publication_ of 
opinions you don't like too forcefully, you'll be working to create a 
climate where nobody can feel safe in voicing opinions that differ 
from the mainstream.  The risk would come to seem to great, for 
progressives and reactionaries alike!  Is that really the sort of 
environment you want?  Since when has censorship even helped the 
Left?  Never.  Whenever the Left wants censorship of something, 
authorities end up using that power _against_ the Left.  

Bye,

Jeremy









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1437
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-13 02:10:39
Subject:Re: [nbpc] "mother to son". women unite,take back the night!
Message:

DO YOU HAVE COURAGE TO LEAD AND WIN? FRANK BRIGHT IS COMMITTED TO
LOWERING PROPERTY TAXES AND IMPROVING PUBLIC EDUCATION. ANYONE CAN TALK
THE TALK BUT CAN YOU WALK THE WALK? 
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1438
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-13 02:31:54
Subject:Re: [nbpc] The Masses Liberation
Message:

JOE DID YOU SOLVE THE PROBLEMS WITH PRISON REFORM? DID YOU SOLVE THE
PROBLEMS WITH POLICE BRUTALITY? DID YOU SOLVE THE PROBLEMS WITH AIDS
EDUCATION? DID YOU SOLVE THE PROBLEMS WITH AFFIRMATIVE ACTION? DID YOU
SOLVE THE PROBLEMS WITH THE WAR ON DRUGS? DID YOU SOLVE THE PROBLEMS
WITH EDUCATION?

NO BECAUSE YOU OFFER PEOPLE PART- TIME SOLUTION TO FULL-TIME PROBLEM
JUST AS MR. JONES AND CAHILL YOUR FRIENDS NOT MINE.

I AM WORKING TOWARD REAL RESULTS BECAUSE I LIVE IN REAL WORLD. 

TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1439
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-13 08:02:06
Subject:Re: [nbpc] The Masses Liberation
Message:

anything specific about the work i've done tracy. why is it that you invited 
me to speak to your congregation? who helped you move those close for the 
poor? who gave you copies of lenin's writings to study? who invited you and 
your children to picnic in the summer?

you jump on me because it suits your purposes to jump on me.

nbpc, stop the splits. dump republicans, embrace the people!

joe


>From: TRACYFORD1420@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] The Masses Liberation
>Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:31:54 -0400 (EDT)
>
>JOE DID YOU SOLVE THE PROBLEMS WITH PRISON REFORM? DID YOU SOLVE THE
>PROBLEMS WITH POLICE BRUTALITY? DID YOU SOLVE THE PROBLEMS WITH AIDS
>EDUCATION? DID YOU SOLVE THE PROBLEMS WITH AFFIRMATIVE ACTION? DID YOU
>SOLVE THE PROBLEMS WITH THE WAR ON DRUGS? DID YOU SOLVE THE PROBLEMS
>WITH EDUCATION?
>
>NO BECAUSE YOU OFFER PEOPLE PART- TIME SOLUTION TO FULL-TIME PROBLEM
>JUST AS MR. JONES AND CAHILL YOUR FRIENDS NOT MINE.
>
>I AM WORKING TOWARD REAL RESULTS BECAUSE I LIVE IN REAL WORLD.
>
>TRACY FORD
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1440
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-13 08:24:45
Subject:Fwd: Let the voices of the oppressed be heard
Message:

Let the voices of the oppressed be heard
By:

04/12/01
--------------------------
Yes, reparations for the Black nation and all oppressed nations, as well as 
working-class Whites! These people are owed not only reparations in the form 
of money and free education for the oppression they have endured in the 
past, but they are also owed the democratic right of self-determination to 
determine their relationship to America � something no nation has ever had 
the right to do. The history of America is the history of anti-democracy in 
the forms of the slaughter of the indigenous peoples, the outright 
enslavement of Africans, the theft of the Chicano�s land and the 
exploitation of the White working class. Jim Crow, the overturning of the 
victories of the Civil War, along with the current segregation of America�s 
school system (New Jersey � home of racist profiling � has the most 
segregated school system in the nation), are just a couple examples of the 
anti-democratic, White supremacist positions that point out the fact that 
America is no democracy. The current �selected� president did not win the 
vote! He is a counterfeit president for a fake democracy!

White supremacy, the argument that other skin colors are inferior, is the 
position of U.S. Imperialism and is the leading ideological position of all 
institutions based in this nation. Look no further than Rutgers University�s 
appointed president Francis Lawrence, who made public his White supremacist 
agenda when he stated that Black people are genetically inferior to Whites, 
and that is why they are not entered into Rutgers on an equal basis as 
Whites. Not because of the deeply segregated, racist public school systems 
throughout New Jersey, which are second to none in segregation to other 
states throughout the nation. And not because of a social economic 
relationship that fights with no mercy to keep Black people poorer and more 
exploited than Whites.

It is engrained in our culture that Black people are a criminal class and 
that the middle-class suburbs actually need a police state, fascism, to 
protect them from the inner cities. The fact is that Afro-American 
communities are in need of reparations to provide free education, free job 
training with the democratic right to a living wage, free childcare 
facilities, proper housing facilities with democratic right to affordable 
housing, let along all moneys owed to the Black nation from slavery to be 
put into a Black national treasury.

Students at Rutgers must demand and support the fight for reparations and 
self-determination for the Black nation, locally and throughout the United 
States. The Committee to Defeat Racist Profiling and Police Brutality will 
be organizing a Speak Out to Defeat Racist Profiling and Police Brutality on 
May 1 at Brower Commons. This 11:00-1:00 event will demand reparations and 
self-determinations for the Black nation and all oppressed nations as well 
as the White working class. Also close attention must be paid to the 
Coalition for Justice statewide march on Trenton May 16 to defeat racist 
profiling and police brutality.

<i>Margaret Stevens is a member of the James Dickson Carr Society. Ryan 
Keene is a Newark resident. Joe Smith is a member of the Committee to Defeat 
Racist Profiling. Tamara Dahan is a member of Sisterhood and Struggle. Karla 
Furr is a Rutgers University senior.
--------------------------
Story Source: The Daily Targum



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1441
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-13 09:50:48
Subject:Protest State Police Recruitment @Rutgers
Message:

State Police will be recruiting this Wednesday from 11:00-2:00  
outside  the College Ave. Student Center. Protest this and promote 
Speak Out to Defeat Racist Profiling & Police Brutality May 1 @ Brower
Commons. All available protestors speak up!

The Committee to Defeat Racist Profiling & Police Brutality demand 
that this reqruiting be stopped until immediate democratic reforms 
into Racist Profiling are openly accepted by the State Police. These
reforms range from having the head of the State Police elected by the 
people, to organizing and implementing democratically elected civilain 
control boards that will oversee the dept., to revamping the entire 
training of the NJ State Police. Also, we demand that NJ State Police 
immediately issue a public admission of guilt to the continued 
practice of Racist Profiling as well as to the more subvertive
activities carried out by vigilanty groups such as "The Lords of 
Discipline", who operate inside the NJ State Police and whose terror 
targets women and oppressed nationality Troopers, as well as white 
whistleblowers.

Racist Profiling is the most open vicious attack against people of 
oppressed nations, women, and the working class. No practice is more 
successful in striking terror into the lives of the people, just ask
those youth that were gunned down by State Troopers on the Turnpike in 
'98. The practice of Racist Profiling is not just in the State Police, 
but in every police dept. across the nation. In New Brunswick, police 
officers are famous for running prostitution houses and for shooting 
young black men & women in the back: Shaun Potts ~ murdered while he 
was running from officer Zane Gray in '91 - then, while he was on top 
of her with her face in the mud, Carolyn Adams was murdered in cold 
blood by NBPD Racist Profiler James Consalvo, '96.

The NJ State Troopers promote Troopers that are the best at Racist 
Profiling while Troopers that speak out against the practice become 
the target of unmolested attack from their own ranks and supervisors.
Currently there are over 3 dozen lawsuits concerning Racist Profiling 
from Troopers within the NJ State Police against the NJ State Police. 
One a month, and continuing, since the turnpike shooting blew the top 
and Troopers John Hogan & James Kenna became national poster boys for 
this racist practice that was embraced so much by the two that they 
led the whole state in such things as Falsifying Documents in order to 
hide the skin color of the motorists they stopped. All eyes on Hogan & 
Kenna whose trial is set to begin April 4. May they be found GUILTY on 
all counts, from attempted murder to over 2 dozen charges of 
falsifying documents, and die in prison! 

NJ State Troopers off our campus!
Yes to democratic community control over police depts. at all 
levels(!) - municipal, county, state.











-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1442
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-13 18:26:40
Subject:Help Save The Court Tavern...
Message:


>Subject: Help Save The Court Tavern...
>
>Attention anyone who has ever played or been to the Court Tavern!!!
>My friend has forwarded this petition to me re: the Court, please pass it 
>on
>to everyone who has an interest in our local music scene.
>Thanks, JZ
>
>Hello, the Court Tavern in New Brunswick is being threatened with possibly
>being closed down. A redevelopement project could mean that home to 
>original
>music in New Brunswick for over 20 years could be gone, and since the 
>Melody
>closed a month back, there will now be no more music in New Brunswick.
>Inside I am enclosing three links to three articles taken from the Home 
>News
>and Tribune, or you can visist www.thnt.com and search up Court Tavern to
>find the articles...
>
>The Court Tavern has a vital history for providing original music as a 
>haven
>for artists and musicians in Central Jersey.
>
>http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,376424,00.html
>
>http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,376861,00.html
>
>http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,377308,00.html
>
>The details of the situation are explained in the articles. I urge all of
>you to please attend the City Council meeting on Wed, April 18th 2001, at
>City Hall on Bayard st in New Brunswick (next to the Post Office) at 6:45
>and
>voice your concerns...
>
>please attend the meeting and support the last home in New Brunswick for
>original music...also please forward this along to as many people as
>possible.....thanks
>
>You will also notice that a form letter is attached...
>
>Please print out a copy of this letter, fill in the blanks (signature,
>date, contact info) at bottom of letter.
>
>mail to:
>City Council of New Brunswick
>78 Bayard Street
>New Brunswick, NJ 08901
>
>or fax it to:
>732-745-5009
>
>or drop it off at The Court Tavern, on Church st, in New Brunswick.
>
>I am also going to add the text version of the form letter here....
>
>
>
>
>
>To: City Council of New Brunswick
>Dear City Council:
>
>I am writing to oppose the amendment to rezone the area of the two parking
>lots and the Court Tavern property in downtown New Brunswick.
>The proposed zone change serves no public purpose but to facilitate the
>construction of additional office space. New Brunswick has many office
>buildings:  it does not need yet another one.
>This amendment would facilitate the possible destruction of the Court 
>Tavern
>building.
>The Court Tavern is a 40-year old, family-owned business, which has long
>supported an active music scene.  Local, national, and international 
>musical
>acts have performed there over the years, and have used the Court to hone
>their craft.
>We believe that the business and community interests of New Brunswick are
>best served by balancing the uses of its commercial areas, and keeping it 
>is
>a viable, living downtown area that serves the local community.
>Already, many other similar musical venues and local businesses have closed
>or left New BrunswickCrossroads, The Roxy, The Melody, and Budapest Pub,
>for examplemaking it even more important to protect and nurture those
>musical venues and businesses we still have left.
>The Court Taverns location is essential for its survival as a business. We
>believe that venues such as the Court Tavern, the State Theatre, George
>Street Playhouse, etc. are crucial to the long-term health of the New
>Brunswick that its residents know and love. These and other performance
>centers have added to the character and vibrancy of downtown New Brunswick,
>and have spurred a welcome revitalization of the entire downtown area.
>Please help us to preserve this momentum. New Brunswick is a community, not
>an office park.
>Establishments such as the Court Tavern are indispensable to continuing
>musical, cultural and community growth. This crucial point is being
>overlooked by the proposed redevelopment. New Brunswick has a history and
>reputation, because of venues like the Court Tavern, for being a haven for
>artists and musicians. This very important fact has been the subject of
>numerous articles published by a variety of media outlets, including the 
>New
>York Times and the Star Ledger.
>The impact of this decision reaches beyond the city limits, and beyond the
>citys pockets.
>I urge you to oppose the amendment, and support our cultural heritage.
>
>Signed:__________________________________    Contact
>info:________________________
>Date:________________              ________________________
>                    _____________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1443
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-13 21:08:36
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Help Save The Court Tavern...
Message:

sat. nite 9:30, court tavern:

long-time, former local, court musician greg digesu & his new band 
"speedsters & dopers" w/ suran song in stag & instant death.


>From: "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@egroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, 
>tsinclai@..., traceyx@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Help Save The Court Tavern...
>Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:26:40
>
>
>
> >Subject: Help Save The Court Tavern...
> >
> >Attention anyone who has ever played or been to the Court Tavern!!!
> >My friend has forwarded this petition to me re: the Court, please pass it
> >on
> >to everyone who has an interest in our local music scene.
> >Thanks, JZ
> >
> >Hello, the Court Tavern in New Brunswick is being threatened with 
>possibly
> >being closed down. A redevelopement project could mean that home to
> >original
> >music in New Brunswick for over 20 years could be gone, and since the
> >Melody
> >closed a month back, there will now be no more music in New Brunswick.
> >Inside I am enclosing three links to three articles taken from the Home
> >News
> >and Tribune, or you can visist www.thnt.com and search up Court Tavern to
> >find the articles...
> >
> >The Court Tavern has a vital history for providing original music as a
> >haven
> >for artists and musicians in Central Jersey.
> >
> >http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,376424,00.html
> >
> >http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,376861,00.html
> >
> >http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,377308,00.html
> >
> >The details of the situation are explained in the articles. I urge all of
> >you to please attend the City Council meeting on Wed, April 18th 2001, at
> >City Hall on Bayard st in New Brunswick (next to the Post Office) at 6:45
> >and
> >voice your concerns...
> >
> >please attend the meeting and support the last home in New Brunswick for
> >original music...also please forward this along to as many people as
> >possible.....thanks
> >
> >You will also notice that a form letter is attached...
> >
> >Please print out a copy of this letter, fill in the blanks (signature,
> >date, contact info) at bottom of letter.
> >
> >mail to:
> >City Council of New Brunswick
> >78 Bayard Street
> >New Brunswick, NJ 08901
> >
> >or fax it to:
> >732-745-5009
> >
> >or drop it off at The Court Tavern, on Church st, in New Brunswick.
> >
> >I am also going to add the text version of the form letter here....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To: City Council of New Brunswick
> >Dear City Council:
> >
> >I am writing to oppose the amendment to rezone the area of the two 
>parking
> >lots and the Court Tavern property in downtown New Brunswick.
> >The proposed zone change serves no public purpose but to facilitate the
> >construction of additional office space. New Brunswick has many office
> >buildings:  it does not need yet another one.
> >This amendment would facilitate the possible destruction of the Court
> >Tavern
> >building.
> >The Court Tavern is a 40-year old, family-owned business, which has long
> >supported an active music scene.  Local, national, and international
> >musical
> >acts have performed there over the years, and have used the Court to hone
> >their craft.
> >We believe that the business and community interests of New Brunswick are
> >best served by balancing the uses of its commercial areas, and keeping it
> >is
> >a viable, living downtown area that serves the local community.
> >Already, many other similar musical venues and local businesses have 
>closed
> >or left New Brunswick�Crossroads, The Roxy, The Melody, and Budapest Pub,
> >for example�making it even more important to protect and nurture those
> >musical venues and businesses we still have left.
> >The Court Tavern1s location is essential for its survival as a business. 
>We
> >believe that venues such as the Court Tavern, the State Theatre, George
> >Street Playhouse, etc. are crucial to the long-term health of the New
> >Brunswick that its residents know and love. These and other performance
> >centers have added to the character and vibrancy of downtown New 
>Brunswick,
> >and have spurred a welcome revitalization of the entire downtown area.
> >Please help us to preserve this momentum. New Brunswick is a community, 
>not
> >an office park.
> >Establishments such as the Court Tavern are indispensable to continuing
> >musical, cultural and community growth. This crucial point is being
> >overlooked by the proposed redevelopment. New Brunswick has a history and
> >reputation, because of venues like the Court Tavern, for being a haven 
>for
> >artists and musicians. This very important fact has been the subject of
> >numerous articles published by a variety of media outlets, including the
> >New
> >York Times and the Star Ledger.
> >The impact of this decision reaches beyond the city limits, and beyond 
>the
> >city1s pockets.
> >I urge you to oppose the amendment, and support our cultural heritage.
> >
> >Signed:__________________________________    Contact
> >info:________________________
> >Date:________________              ________________________
> >                    _____________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1444
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-13 21:41:24
Subject:all hail the cincy freedom fighters!
Message:

Cincinnati continues curfew to prevent
                     further riots 

                     By JOE MILICIA
                     The Associated Press
                     4/13/01 8:25 PM

                     CINCINNATI (AP) -- The mayor extended the curfew 
forcing churches to
                     cancel or postpone nighttime Good Friday services 
after three nights of
                     rioting over the police killing of an unarmed 
black man. 

                     In what was seen as a victory for critics who 
demanded changes at the
                     police department, the city official who oversees 
police and fire operations
                     resigned. Safety Director Kent Ryan, 55, cited 
personal and health
                     reasons. He spent a night in a hospital with chest 
pains four days ago. 

                     Mayor Charles Luken said Friday he was extending 
the curfew reluctantly
                     and expected it to continue until at least Easter 
Sunday. 

                     "A lot of businesses are suffering," Luken said. 
"We'd like to get them
                     back in business as soon as we can." 

                     Luken had declared a state of emergency Thursday 
and imposed the
                     dusk-to-dawn curfew to halt Cincinnati's worst 
racial violence since Martin
                     Luther King's assassination in 1968. 

                     Police made 153 arrests related to the curfew that 
lasted from 8 p.m. to 6
                     a.m. Fifty-four adults and nine juveniles were 
arrested on other charges;
                     police did not say how many of those arrests were 
riot-related. 

                     Timothy Thomas, 19, who was shot while fleeing a 
police officer, was to
                     be buried Saturday after a church service in Over-
the-Rhine, the
                     neighborhood where most of the rioting occurred 
Monday through
                     Wednesday. Police were preparing for a large 
turnout at the funeral. 

                     "That could be a potential problem for us. There's 
no doubt," police
                     spokesman Lt. Ray Ruberg said. 

                     A resident who plans to attend the funeral said he 
thinks the violence is
                     over and that religious leaders will keep Saturday 
peaceful. 

                     "I like to think there will be enough leadership 
out there to address that,"
                     said Tyrone Smith, 50. 

                     Helmeted police officers, joined by 120 state 
Highway Patrol troopers and
                     sheriff's deputies, outnumbered residents on the 
deserted streets
                     Thursday night, enabling them to prevent all but a 
few incidents. 

                     Police Chief Thomas Streicher also credited 
residents with ending the
                     rioting. 

                     "Last night went well beyond our expectations. We 
had a tremendous
                     amount of voluntary cooperation from the 
citizens," he said. 

                     There were sporadic reports of rock and bottle 
throwing and gunfire
                     overnight. The most serious incident was a fire at 
a delicatessen that
                     caused $100,000 damage, Streicher said. 

                     During the curfew, only those who were going to 
work or had
                     emergencies were allowed to travel in the city of 
331,000, which is 43
                     percent black. Convictions for curfew violations 
carry up to six months in
                     jail or a $1,000 fine. 

                     Police did not have a damage estimate from the 
rioting. 

                     As federal investigators and county prosecutors 
began looking into
                     Thomas' death, Luken agreed that unspecified 
changes are needed in
                     the police department. Since 1995, 15 people have 
died during
                     confrontations with Cincinnati police -- all black 
males. 

                     Police union President Keith Fangman said that in 
many of those deaths,
                     officers were threatened or were returning 
gunfire. 

                     "Why are we not explaining that in 10 of these 
cases, suspects pointed
                     guns or fired guns at the officers?" he said. 
"When (suspects) are armed
                     with guns, do people just expect us to be shot?" 

                     In two cases, Fangman said suspects ran down 
officers with cars, and in
                     another confrontation a suspect swung a board with 
nails at the officer
                     before being killed. 

                     Last year an officer fatally shot a black 12-year-
old boy while he was
                     being dragged by the boy's car, Fangman added. The 
officer, also black,
                     died after falling from the car. 

                     NAACP national President Kweisi Mfume called 
Cincinnati "ground zero"
                     in race relations. 

                     "If it's not solved here, it won't be solved 
anywhere," he said. "When
                     police officers, particularly good officers, get 
tainted by those who take
                     the law into their own hands, it's up to the 
police to break the blue wall of
                     silence." 

                     At Cincinnati's downtown Fountain Square, several 
hundred people
                     attended an interfaith Good Friday service, where 
Christian, Jewish and
                     Muslim leaders appealed for calm. 

                     The Rt. Rev. Herbert Thompson Jr., bishop of the 
Episcopal Diocese of
                     Southern Ohio, compared the week of Christ's death 
with this week's
                     rampage. 

                     "It was a time of social unrest, of fear and 
anger," Thompson said. "That
                     is why, Cincinnati, I am hopeful for us ... after 
the suffering and death
                     comes resurrection." 








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1445
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-14 02:14:24
Subject:Re: [nbpc] The Masses Liberation
Message:

JOE,
 THAT I HAVE NOT ALWAYS SEEN EYE TO EYE WITH YOU WILL COME AS NO
SURPRISE TO YOU, NOR WILL IT BE IRRITANT, AND YOU HAVE SHOWN YOURSELF
GENEROUSLY OBLIVIOUS OF CRITICISMS WHICH IT WOULD VIRTUALLY ALWAYS HAVE
BEEN REASONABLE AND HUMAN TO REGARD AS UNFAIR AND OVER-STATED. THAT , IN
MY EYES, IS A QUALITY OF SOME SIGNIFICANCE, AND IT IS TESTIMONY TO THE
MARX-LENINIST NATURE OF YOUR MIND. SPEAKING AS A FRIEND OF COURSE, THAT
CERTAINTY EFFECTIVELY MAKE UP FOR IDEOLOGICAL IDIOSYNCRASIES WHICH YOU
HAVE OFTEN DISPLAYED IN YOUR ARTICLES WITH THEIR HIGHLY PERSONAL STYLE
AND IN YOUR ADMIRABLY ELOQUENT SPEECHES.

 BUT IT IS NOT ABOUT THAT THAT I WISH TO ENGAGE YOU TODAY. I HOPE SOME
DAY TO BROACH THOSE MATTERS AND ANOTHER WITH YOU DIRECTLY. IF I ADDRESS
MYSELF PUBLICLY TO YOU, IT IS IN REGARD TO INFINITELY MORE SERIOUS
MATTERS, TO REMIND YOU OF YOUR ENORMOUS RESPONSIBILITIES, WHICH YOU MAY
WELL HAVE OVER-LOOKED ON ACCOUNT OF YOUR MODESTY.

TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1446
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-12 11:57:46
Subject:Re: [nbpc] rain coats
Message:

frank bright would not STEAL the seat he holds on the housing authority from 
the residents of public housing, which violates federal law, if he cared 
about community control over public housing.
he pushes a program that is anti-community control and pro republican.

joe


>From: TRACYFORD1420@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] rain coats
>Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 11:50:31 -0400 (EDT)
>
>FRANK BRIGHT 'S WIDE SUPPORT IS A RESULT OF HIS DEEPLY HELD THAT POWER
>BELONGS IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE AND NOT POLITICIANS. YOU HAVE NOT
>PRESENTED NOT FACTS ,JUST MISINFORMATION
>TRACY FORD
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1447
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-15 00:59:35
Subject:Re: [nbpc] rain coats
Message:

JOE
 IF MARXISM WERE TO TAKE POWER, IT WOULD RESEMBLE MORE CLOSELY A
SELF-LIMITATION OF THE PEOPLES ACTION, PROMPTED BY OPPORTUNISTIC SAVVY.
THE BUILT-TO-LAST WORKER'S STATE SET ITSELF THE IMMEDIATE TASK OF
CHANNELLING AND ABSORBING EVERY ONE OF THE FORCES PRESENTLY AT LIBERTY
WITHIN PROLETARIAT AND PEASANTRY. THE WORKER'S STATE IS THE FULL STOP
CONCLUDING ALL REVOLUTIONARY PROGRESS, THE BEGINNING OF A NEW POLITICAL
ENSLAVEMENT.
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1448
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-15 11:34:59
Subject:Re: [nbpc] rain coats
Message:

bas-

still enchanted with ford's (republican) revolutionary eloquence?


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., TRACYFORD1420@W... wrote:
> JOE
>  IF MARXISM WERE TO TAKE POWER, IT WOULD RESEMBLE MORE CLOSELY A
> SELF-LIMITATION OF THE PEOPLES ACTION, PROMPTED BY OPPORTUNISTIC 
SAVVY.
> THE BUILT-TO-LAST WORKER'S STATE SET ITSELF THE IMMEDIATE TASK OF
> CHANNELLING AND ABSORBING EVERY ONE OF THE FORCES PRESENTLY AT 
LIBERTY
> WITHIN PROLETARIAT AND PEASANTRY. THE WORKER'S STATE IS THE FULL 
STOP
> CONCLUDING ALL REVOLUTIONARY PROGRESS, THE BEGINNING OF A NEW 
POLITICAL
> ENSLAVEMENT.
> TRACY FORD
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1449
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-15 11:43:02
Subject:cincy: "we charge genocide!"
Message:

Police shoot bean bags at
                protesters after slain man's
                funeral 

                By LIZ SIDOTI
                The Associated Press
                4/14/01 11:37 PM

                CINCINNATI (AP) -- Hundreds of protesters marched
                through riot-scarred streets Saturday after the 
funeral of a
                black man whose shooting by police touched off a week 
of
                unrest. 

                Four people were injured by crowd-control bean bags 
shot
                by police, but the march was otherwise peaceful. 
Police
                and the FBI were investigating why officers shot at a 
small
                group milling on streets shortly after the funeral 
ended. 

                Hundreds of mourners at New Prospect Baptist Church
                were told the death of 19-year-old Timothy Thomas was 
a
                tragedy that raised awareness of the struggles of 
blacks in
                the city. 

                "All you need to do is hold on. Right now we have the 
world
                looking at Cincinnati," the Rev. Damon Lynch III said. 
"The
                world needs to see first of all that black men know 
how to
                stand up and be counted. Stand up for justice. Stand 
up
                against oppression." 

                Outside, protesters waved signs saying, "It Is Right 
To
                Rebel" and "It's Time To Shoot Back" as hundreds of
                mourners filed past the open silver casket of Thomas, 
the
                fourth black man killed by police since November. 

                Thomas, who was wanted on 14 warrants for
                misdemeanors and traffic violations, was unarmed when 
he
                was shot while running from police. 

                His death led to three days of rioting, and more than 
200
                people have been arrested in looting, arson, 
vandalism, and
                other violence in mostly black sections of the city. 

                A citywide curfew enacted Thursday to stem the 
violence
                has brought more than 350 arrests of violators over 
two
                nights. The dusk-to-dawn curfew was extended to 
Saturday
                night, when 25 people were arrested in the first few 
hours. 

                The crowd of mourners dispersed Saturday before the
                curfew took effect. Marchers sang gospel hymns and
                clapped their hands as they marched past police
                headquarters, which was guarded by officers in riot 
gear.
                The crowd also visited the alley where Thomas was 
shot. 

                Authorities were investigating what prompted officers 
to fire
                the bean bags. A 50-year-old black man, a 34-year-old
                white woman, an 11-year-old black girl and a 
7-year-old
                black girl suffered minor injuries. 

                "They just pulled up and starting shooting at us," 
said
                Christine Jones, 34, of Louisville, Ky., as she sobbed 
in an
                alley. 

                A photographer for The Cincinnati Enquirer said he was
                shoved and kicked and had a camera lense pulled off 
his
                arm as he took pictures of some of the demonstrators. 

                Outside the church about 200 people surrounded an
                African drum band, waved African flags, and held signs
                saying, "It Is Right To Rebel" and "It's Time To Shoot
                Back." 

                Patricia X. Cooley, 40, yelled into a microphone, 
"Racist
                cops you can't hide. We charge you with genocide." 

                Malik Zulu Shabazz, national spokesman for the New
                Black Panther Party, won cheers from those in the 
church
                and others who listened outside to a broadcast as he
                chanted, "black power." 

                "This is not a riot. This is a rebellion," he said. 

                NAACP President Kweisi Mfume told mourners Thomas
                did not die in vain. 

                "Although ordinary in his life, Timothy is 
extraordinary in
                his death because he got us looking at each other and
                talking to each other," he said. 

                Tears flowed from Thomas' relatives, who filled the 
first four
                rows of seats in the church. Mayor Charles Luken spoke
                directly to Thomas' mother, Angela Leisure. 

                "Words cannot express our sorrow. I repeat today my
                apology to you and your family. I ask that today be a
                catalyst for a new Cincinnati," he said. 

                Mourners filed into the church, some wearing suits and
                dresses, others in jeans and jogging suits. Several of
                Thomas' friends wore T-shirts with his photo on the 
front. 

                Young and old kneeled to write messages on four white
                bed sheets at a playground across the street from the
                church. One note said, "Peace begins with Timothy and
                continues with me." 

                "If you knew Timmy and what kind of person he was ... 
this
                should have never happened," said a man who would only
                identify himself as Rich, 27. He said he and Thomas
                regularly played basketball together. 

                "My power forward is gone. I mean, he was my best 
friend.
                He was my heart and soul." 

                The shooting is under investigation by prosecutors and
                federal agencies, and the Justice Department's civil 
rights
                division has sent lawyers to Cincinnati to study the
                practices, procedures and training of the police
                department. 

                Attorney General John Ashcroft, in response to a 
request
                from Mayor Charles Luken, began the inquiry Friday to
                determine if a wider investigation was warranted. 

                The president of the local police union said officers 
would
                accept whatever happens to Stephen Roach, the officer
                who shot Thomas. Roach is on paid administrative 
leave. 

                "From what we've been told, the suspect was not 
armed,"
                Keith Fangman said. "So it's natural that there should 
be
                questions. The community has every right to get 
answers
                to those questions." 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1450
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-15 11:47:43
Subject:devco maniacs expand, "not tear down", political machine...
Message:

DevCo leaders pursue big dreams 

            Published in the Home News Tribune 4/15/01 

            Second in an occasional series about DevCo

            By SHARON WATERS
            STAFF WRITER

            NEW BRUNSWICK: Get the two leaders of the New Brunswick 
Development Corporation talking about future plans and they
            are soon making a case for New Jersey -- not New York City 
-- to host the 2012 Summer Olympics with New Brunswick serving
            as the Olympic Village.

            Sports stadiums and facilities at Rutgers University and 
the Meadowlands could host events along with the proposed arena in
            Newark and new home for the MetroStars soccer team. 
Equestrian events would be held in Far Hills. Rutgers dorms could 
house
            athletes, and New Brunswick's hotels would accommodate 
spectators. The area's highways and trains would shuttle people
            between all the sites.

            "It would be extraordinary," said DevCo President 
Christopher J. Paladino.

            "Is it a pipe dream? A lot of people have pipe dreams, but 
sometimes they become reality," said DevCo's chairman George R.
            Zoffinger, the same man who co-chaired the 1994 men's 
World Cup games at the Meadowlands and insisted New Jersey, not just
            New York, be listed in the venue name.

            Any New Brunswick role in the 2012 Olympics would rest on 
a New Jersey partnership with New York's bid. Eight cities,
            including New York City, met the Dec. 15, 2000, deadline 
for submitting applications to become the United States candidate city
            to host the 2012 Olympic Games.

            Dreams of Olympic-host glory aside, DevCo's two leaders 
are not short on ideas for developing New Brunswick.

            Leaders of the city's revitalization say DevCo's growing 
momentum and success have led to an expanding role and prominence in
            the city. The nonprofit, created in 1976 to revitalize the 
city's blighted blocks, is now evaluating what it needs to do to move 
itself,
            and the city, to the next level.

            One current DevCo focus is planning an "aggressive attack" 
on the George Street corridor from New Street to Douglass College
            and its contributing neighborhoods, Paladino said. 
Revitalization in that area could not be accomplished without DevCo's 
activities
            in the Cultural Center area of downtown, he said.

            DevCo is overseeing the construction of the 16-story 
Heldrich Plaza at Monument Square and the transformation of the nearby
            Neilson Street parking lots into a $125 million mixed-use 
development. It will take over management of the Cultural Center
            consortium of theaters and City Market, the downtown's 
special-improvement district.

            Paladino noted the city's riverfront area near the old 
police station could be transformed into a venue for outside 
symphonies and
            other cultural events. He acknowledged such a project 
could be an outgrowth of a DevCo and Cultural Center collaboration,
            which could attract funds as both an arts and 
economic-development project.

            The riverfront

            Other possibilities along the Raritan River and Delaware & 
Raritan Canal include moving Rutgers' boathouse farther north and
            improving it, providing the ability to dock boats or 
building a waterfront restaurant.

            Zoffinger and Paladino called the riverfront a tremendous 
resource and noted about 2,000 people will eventually live across from
            it in the New and Neilson streets upscale developments 
called The Highlands and The Metropolitan. Zoffinger wants to find a
            way to further develop New Brunswick's riverfront, saying 
the area could become similar to San Antonio's Riverwalk, a
            tree-lined promenade of restaurants and shops.

            "Think about what it could be. We don't know exactly, but 
we're going to throw out a lot of ideas," he said.

            Anticipating the promise of the waterfront, city officials 
want a pedestrian bridge built over Route 18 from Richmond Street to 
the
            area of the old police station. Mayor James M. Cahill said 
he asked the state Department of Transportation to add the bridge into
            its $75 million plan for the widening of Route 18.

            Paladino's vision has the Richmond Street bridge being 
wide enough for vehicular traffic. The bridge would be inviting, said
            Paladino, who compared his vision of the bridge to an I-95 
overpass linking Penns Landing with the rest of downtown
            Philadelphia.

            The DOT's proposed changes to Route 18 and plans for The 
Highlands and The Metropolitan developments made the city realize
            now was the time to try to add the pedestrian bridge to 
create another access point to the river, Cahill said.

            Revitalizing the George Street corridor from downtown to 
Douglass College was always one of the areas highlighted as an
            opportunity for redevelopment, said one of the city's 
original revitalization leaders, C. Roy Epps, president of the Civic 
League of
            Greater New Brunswick. Plans for the riverfront at the old 
police station also are not new, he said, but noted there may be a
            reason DevCo is speaking about these projects now.

            "It says maybe there's new opportunity and also it's in 
the grand plan to do these things. As opportunities present 
themselves,
            that's when you strike the iron."

            Rutgers as partner

            One emerging opportunity could be a closer relationship 
between DevCo and Rutgers University, a partnership that could be
            essential for linking the downtown to Douglass.

            George Street should be revitalized with neighborhood 
retail, university and institutional growth in the area and a 
significant
            amount of mixed-income housing, Paladino said. He noted 
the importance of students as a market, saying additional services
            students demand could be provided. Certain uses could 
serve dual needs, said Paladino, noting some universities have movie
            theaters double as classroom space.

            The more DevCo can do with Rutgers to focus development in 
New Brunswick's downtown versus Piscataway can help the city
            leverage other projects, said Paladino, noting Rutgers 
could be a "great partner."

            Zoffinger said it was "not controversial but interesting," 
that Rutgers University needs to be a more active partner in the
            revitalization process.

            "We've been disappointed we haven't been able to do more 
together. I've had a lot of discussions with (Rutgers President 
Francis
            L.) Lawrence about that, and I think we'll be doing more," 
Zoffinger said.

            Rutgers Senior Vice President and Treasurer Joanne G. 
Jackson said she was surprised by Zoffinger's statement that the 
university
            needed to be more active. Rutgers is undergoing a 
master-planning process to assess physical-asset resources and needs 
and has
            met with Zoffinger and DevCo officials about the planning, 
she said.

            Rutgers is firmly committed to working not only with the 
city of New Brunswick, but also Piscataway and Highland Park, on
            development issues, she said. Rutgers has partnered with 
Middlesex County, DevCo, New Brunswick and other local
            municipalities and businesses to study a proposal for a 
light-rail or bus line running from Interstate 287 in Piscataway to 
Route 18
            in East Brunswick or South River.

            If talking about the Olympics in New Jersey excites 
Zoffinger, so does discussing revitalization opportunities in Asbury 
Park or
            Camden. But when asked if New Brunswick Development 
Corporation could someday become New Jersey Development
            Corporation, Zoffinger said "No."

            "I don't think we can. Realistically, we've done some 
great things here, and ideas can be transferred elsewhere but when you
            branch out like that, it becomes harder to manage. I think 
one reason we're successful is we're focused," said Zoffinger.

            "We're not egomaniacs thinking we can do this all over the 
world," he said. 

            Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@...

            from the Home News Tribune 

            Published: April 15, 2001







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1451
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-15 18:07:59
Subject:Fwd: Larry on Gormley in Newark
Message:



>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>To: "Larry Hamm" <ceettadili@...>
>Subject: Larry on Gormley in Newark
>Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 16:47:25 -0400
>
>Sunday, April 15
>
>Larry Hamm just called. A happy holiday to all.
>
>His computer is down. And out. He asked me to pass this message along.
>
>The Senate Judiciary Committee headed by Sen. Gormley will meet in Newark 
>this Wednesday. Larry calls for everyone who can make it to be in front of 
>Seton Hall Law School in Newark for a comprehensive protest against all the 
>racist abuses of the criminal "justice" system. The hearings in Trenton 
>began at 10 AM so I expect that it will be the same here. The location is 
>One Newark Center, Raymond Blvd. at McCarter Highway.
>
>Come at whatever hour you can- there will be people all day. Bring signs, 
>literature, your issue, your views, whatever you got.
>
>Also let me remind you of the program Tuesday night: Jose Fernando Ramirez, 
>Colombian trade unionist, will speak on the topic "U.S. Intervention in 
>Colombia and the People's Response." POP is a co-sponsor of the event. It 
>will take place on the South Orange campus of Seton Hall in the Graduate 
>Student Lounge of Duffy Hall at 7 PM.
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1452
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-15 18:14:23
Subject:New Egroup for NBPC members
Message:

I would like to invite all members of the New Brunswick People's 
Campaign (NBPC) to join the new members' newsgroup which can be found 
at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nbpcmembers

The group contains several new features, including files, database, 
calendar, bookmarks (i.e. links), and polls.  We have added a number 
of key campaign documents to the files section, along with key 
upcoming dates, together with links to other sites of interest.

Anyone may view the content on the egroup; however, to add content 
you must be an NBPC member.  When you subscribe, your information 
will be verified to confirm your membership in NBPC (according to the 
criteria established at the 3/31/01 meeting).

I look forward to seeing you on the new egroup where news of NBPC's 
many activities in support of the people of New Brunswick, will be 
disseminated and discussed.









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1454
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-15 20:02:13
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

Did someone replace the hemispheres of your brain with two German 
Shepherds?  This is not an esoteric point.  

"I don't ally myself with facts.  SELF-DETERMINATION!!!!"

MAKE A FRIGGIN ARGUMENT.  Your responses amount to, "No, you're 
wrong. Fuck you."  This is why I have given up on these useless back-
and-forths.  You have yet to write one argument against what I am 
saying.  Yes, I know you support the black nation.  Yes, I know you 
believe in reparations.  Yes I know you believe in self-
determination.  

Am I to understand you hold these opinions on faith alone?  Who told 
you this stuff anyway?  You got these ideas from somewhere.

Look: Faith is for Christians and other forms of life entirely weak, 
pre-modern, or out of touch with reality.  Please convince me of your 
view.  I would like to be part of your hip herd, really.  But not 
before I hear a convincing argument.  

Let's start:  Why do African-Americans constitute a *nation*?

Until you give me a convincing argument, and as long as you respond 
my saying I have the line of the "klan," then I will be forced to 
label you separatist, secessionist, even sectarian.  You have the 
line of Idi Amin.

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> 
wrote:
> "What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have to
> >slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because slavery
> >was abolished".
> 
> "And I stress once again -- the extent to which a nation emphasizes
> >its uniqueness as a people based upon an innate sense of belonging 
to
> >a culture that makes it different from "western ideas" or, even
> >better, "white ideas", is the extent to which is supports
> >totalitarianism."  --jim luceno
> 
> keith, care to ally yrself with this?
> call me "ultraleft" but i stand with the oppressed black nation, 
and all 
> oppressed nations against imperialism & imperialist apologies.
> 
> 
> "On the other list you were just saying that you would help kick my 
ass if I 
> made this argument on the street outside my house"  j-low
> 
>                  ^^^this is a lie.^^^
> 
> >From: jmluceno@e...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> >Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 21:20:11 -0000
> >
> >Joe --
> >
> >I think slaves should be repaid for slavery, but as far as I can
> >tell, the last of the slaves died over a 100 years ago.
> >
> >What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have to
> >slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because slavery
> >was abolished.
> >
> >What African-Americans do have an immediate connection with is 
racism
> >and capitalism.  They aren't impoverished because of slavery.  
That's
> >absurd.  They're impoverished because of racism.
> >
> >What are you going to do about racism?  You're going to throw money
> >at it.  Great.  Are you *really* that cynical?  All black people 
care
> >about is getting cash for slavery?
> >
> >You're being vague vague vague about this question of self-
> >determination.  What are the boundaries that form the black nation?
> >What is the geographical location that they have an ancestral
> >connection to?  What do you mean by "community control"?  You're
> >going to fight off capitalism by roping off the inner cities?  What
> >does the inner city produce that anybody needs?
> >
> >Gee wiz, welcome to Dialectics 101.  You cannot isolate a 
phenomenon
> >from the totality, or else it becomes one-sided.  One-sidedeness is
> >exactly what the call for self-determation of the black nation is.
> >
> >Revolution requires that the proletariat have an awareness of the
> >*totality* of the system of capitalist production.  It does not 
mean
> >having an awareness of PARTICULAR cultural or ancestral heritage.
> >And I stress once again -- the extent to which a nation emphasizes
> >its uniqueness as a people based upon an innate sense of belonging 
to
> >a culture that makes it different from "western ideas" or, even
> >better, "white ideas", is the extent to which is supports
> >totalitarianism.  If you're going to prove it to me otherwise, 
you're
> >not going to prove it on the basis of history.  History backs me 
up.
> >It abandons you.
> >
> >There is an implicit idea in Marx that we move toward a UNIVERSAL
> >conception of culture.  Do you recognize it?  On the other list you
> >were just saying that you would help kick my ass if I made this
> >argument on the street outside my house, so I somehow doubt you 
do...
> >
> >Jim
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> 
wrote:
> > > jim, do you agree that slaves should be repaid for slavery? do 
you
> >think
> > > workers should be repaid for exploitation? do you think 
students of
> > > segregation should be repaid for education?
> > >
> > > when you first posted that there are some arguements that you 
can
> >agree
> > > with, but they can be beat by arguements countering it. (it 
being
> > > reperations and self-determination) can you explain the 
arguements
> >that you
> > > support without bringing up the better counters? i want to
> >underrstand what
> > > you think.
> > >
> > > joe
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...>
> > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > >Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1980 22:37:00 -0500
> > > >
> > > >I thought that this was a good discussion. I advocate Self D 
and
> > > >Repartaions and Jim
> > > >and I have debated it in the past. The discussion was actaully
> >moving
> > > >forward, and
> > > >many times Jim made the case for Self-D without even meaning 
to.
> >For
> > > >insatnce when he
> > > >says that the overthrow of reconstruction resulted in "pre-
modern
> >classes"
> > > >taking
> > > >control of the Soutrh. That is the point, the relationship of
> > > >Afro-Americans to the US
> > > >is not even at the level that should be achieved in democratic
> >anti-feudal
> > > >revolutions. Self-D addresses that very point.
> > > >However, to say that Jim's analysis is the same as the Klan is 
an
> > > >ultra-left error and
> > > >a un- informed remark. First of all,  most people are against
> >reparations
> > > >that's why
> > > >we have to struggle for it; otherwise we would already have 
it. To
> >say that
> > > >Jim's
> > > >analysis is the same as the Klan (even though you did not call 
him
> >a Klans
> > > >man) is
> > > >counter-revolutionary because it disorganizes the people rather
> >than
> > > >organize them.
> > > >Instead of drawing revolutionary intellectuals and workers 
closer
> >togther
> > > >towards
> > > >unity around a common platform it pushes them away towards
> >disunity.
> > > >I would take it as an extreme insult if someone were to say I 
had
> >a line
> > > >analgous to
> > > >the Klan given that I identify as a revolutionary, why would 
you
> >expect Jim
> > > >to do
> > > >otherwise? How does saying he has a line like the Klan educate 
him
> >or
> > > >change his mind
> > > >or even just contribute meaningfully to the debate?
> > > >This is one particular example of an ultra-left trend of which 
the
> >attack
> > > >on Curtis is
> > > >but another example. This line is sectarian because it creates 
an
> >enemy
> > > >where there
> > > >was/should/could be an ally.   The defeat of this ultra-left 
line
> >and its
> > > >rectification along Marxist-Leninist lines will be a geat force
> >towards
> > > >uniting
> > > >revolutionarys in New Brunswick and in New Jersey and will go a
> >long way in
> > > >  defeating
> > > >the local Social-Democrat liberal missionary line that 
dominates
> >NJFO and
> > > >the People's
> > > >Campaign. If you can not maintain even an alliance with people
> >like Jim and
> > > >Curtis (to
> > > >name but two examples) the movemnt will not grow, no one will 
be
> >organized
> > > >and we will
> > > >have 5  organizations for four  people. Discussion is a good
> >vehicle to
> > > >bring
> > > >ideological clarity and unity but if discussion is just an 
excuse
> >to force
> > > >people to
> > > >accept your line with verbal abuse it becomes a servant of
> >imperialsim.
> > > >
> > > >cliff smith wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > the theft of national "value" is incidental to the 
destruction
> >of
> > > >national
> > > > > "soveriegnty"?
> > > > >
> > > > > stealing something from you is disconnected from denying 
your
> >right to
> > > >it?
> > > > >
> > > > > imperialism (or any social relation) cannot be understood 
only
> > > >economically,
> > > > > & not also necessarily politically.
> > > > >
> > > > > the u.s. cannot control arab oil without 1st toppling 
national
> > > >governments.
> > > > > else why eliminate allende?
> > > > >
> > > > > it is a white supremacist position to deny the national
> >oppression of
> > > >Black
> > > > > America.  j&j steals from everyone equally?  nb 
Blacks/Latinos
> >are not
> > > > > super-exploited/oppressed?
> > > > >
> > > > > what is racial profiling? a class question only? was diallo
> >obliterated
> > > >for
> > > > > being poor only? how to explaing the lynching of james byrd 
by
> >poor
> > > >whites?
> > > > > any lynching? the denial of democratic rights, education, 
jobs?
> >the
> > > >vast,
> > > > > utter impoverishment of the Black Belt (geographic Nation)
> >south?
> > > > >
> > > > > u.s. imperialism does not merely steal labor power from 
Afro-
> >America,
> > > >but
> > > > > most definitely robs its national "value".  impedes its
> >economic,
> > > >political,
> > > > > & cultural development.  what is the relationship of benny
> >goodman to
> > > >jazz,
> > > > > of eminem to hiphop, of the nba to allen iverson?  who 
profit$
> >from
> > > >these
> > > > > Black national markets?  sony?
> > > > >
> > > > > if yr serious in understanding these relations, start with
> >dubois "black
> > > > > reconstruction" & baraka's "black nation" or listen to some
> >charles
> > > >mingus.
> > > > > yr analysis now is that of the klan.
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > > >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:13:28 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national 
self-
> > > > > >determination &
> > > > > > > the theft of national resources.  your
> >celebrated "modernism" is
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real value
> >from one
> > > > > >country and its transportation into another.  Loss of 
national
> > > > > >sovereignty is incidental to it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations in 
the
> >U.S. and
> > > > > >the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book and 
Huey
> > > > > >Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say that if
> >you like,
> > > > > >but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and
> >industrialization has
> > > > > >long-since left the cities for the most part.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are 
stealing
> >national
> > > > > >resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor power.
> >I'll agree
> > > > > >to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a class
> >question,
> > > > > >not a race question.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > you have no national relation to sanford st.  however
> >democracy
> > > > > >means those
> > > > > > > oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st & 
the
> >US urban
> > > > > >centers,
> > > > > > > and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne Nations 
have
> >the
> > > > > >right to
> > > > > > > politically & economically control those areas in which
> >they are
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > > plurality. to determine their relationship to the US, 
which
> >they
> > > > > >have never
> > > > > > > done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of all 
Black
> >peoples
> > > > > >in US.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Alright.  So you're talking about political control at the
> >grassroots
> > > > > >level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of
> >*race*?  Why?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Do you extend this right to all local groups that identify
> >themselves
> > > > > >as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your 
brother's
> >word)
> > > > > >out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom 
want to
> >form
> > > > > >their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.
> >Should they
> > > > > >be allowed to?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of local
> >government
> > > > > >(returning rights to the states, to municipalities, what 
have
> >you)
> > > > > >has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say what
> >you will
> > > > > >about the United States federal government, but at least 
they
> > > > > >enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More than
> >what the
> > > > > >state governments would have done.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >For that matter, why do you want to divide the working 
class
> >along
> > > > > >race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain people 
are
> >unique
> > > > > >based strictly upon their connection to some kind of 
cultural
> > > > > >heritage or land, something that that *outsiders* cannot
> >understand,
> > > > > >sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity 
garbage
> >is what
> > > > > >every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi Amin 
spouts
> >before
> > > > > >sending people to the camps.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?  
Let's
> >be real.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > you should develop a community consciousness at sanford 
st
> >& demand
> > > > > > > community self-determination against j&j dictatorship,
> >which is the
> > > > > >heart of
> > > > > > > the demand "community control". not "work with j&j to 
solve
> > > > > >problems".
> > > > > >
> > > > > >J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a
> >community
> > > > > >where people don't have power, and they'll exploit there.  
Or
> >better
> > > > > >yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is your 
self-
> > > > > >determination, then?  That's why you need to have an
> >international
> > > > > >movement that unites the working class across all lines.  
Class
> > > > > >alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat imperialism, 
then
> >we can
> > > > > >talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we need
> >something
> > > > > >concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest of 
the
> > > > > >proletariat.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction by
> >fascist
> > > > > >terror. the
> > > > > > > "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 hayes-
tilden
> > > > > >scheme.  where
> > > > > > > is the 40acres & mule?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than the
> >return of
> > > > > >power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the
> >southern
> > > > > >cracker who is about as modern flint knife.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Face it.  If the United States government had enforced
> >Reconstruction
> > > > > >by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the U.S.
> >army, that
> > > > > >would have afforded them real local control and self-
> >determination.
> > > > > >Instead they passed it off for the states to decide who 
could
> >have
> > > > > >guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you 
don't
> > > > > >institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of 
federal
> >force?
> > > > > >What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it away
> >because it
> > > > > >does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The line 
is
> >drawn
> > > > > >between the people who produce value, and those to reap the
> >harvest.
> > > > > >Not between black or white or geographical location.  
Progress
> > > > > >requires an ideological and political unity of the part of
> >human-kind
> > > > > >that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is the
> > > > > >proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and real
> >political
> > > > > >freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You 
forget
> >about
> > > > > >the "religious" differences.  Save religion for history 
class
> >about
> > > > > >the middle ages.  Forget about color differences, because 
the
> >idea
> > > > > >that people are different based upon "race" is exactly the
> >idea we
> > > > > >want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of the
> > > > > >superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being a 
part
> >of
> > > > > >the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.
> >Because you
> > > > > >better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once
> >redevelopment
> > > > > >and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into 
enclaves
> >in the
> > > > > >suburbs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the power 
of
> >the
> > > > > >bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by
> >balkanizing
> > > > > >the United States?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Black America thoroughly meets the definition of nation:
> >common
> > > > > >geographic
> > > > > > > area, culture, history, developed economy, as put 
forward
> >first by
> > > > > >Joe
> > > > > > > Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think about 
how
> >Joe
> > > > > >Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination for
> >Lenin, and
> > > > > >how he went and created an imperialist empire of satellites
> >after the
> > > > > >war.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > self-determination & reparations for women against
> >patriarchy!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > self-determination & reparations for workers against
> >capital!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > people vs. imperialism
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > > > > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >So if I want to break off and form a country out of
> >Sandford St.
> > > > > >down
> > > > > > > >here, that's ok?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-
> >determination.  I'm
> > > > > > > >not following.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm down
> >with radical
> > > > > > > >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But 
where do
> >you get
> > > > > > > >reparations out of this?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >And show me how rejecting national self-determination 
and
> > > > > >reparations
> > > > > > > >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith"
> ><cliffsmith69@h...>
> > > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > > self-determination & reparations are basic 
democratic
> >rights and
> > > > > > > >the only
> > > > > > > > > "concrete" political basis for national equality.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > scratch a social democrat, find a white supremacist.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE
> >VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Joe,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's 
Campaign, I
> >am not
> > > > > > > >convinced
> > > > > > > > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That 
is, I
> >have not
> > > > > > > >heard
> > > > > > > > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the only
> >arguments I
> > > > > >can
> > > > > > > > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by arguments
> >against it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted on 
a
> >statement
> > > > > > > >about
> > > > > > > > > >reparations or national self-determination.  If the
> >debate came
> > > > > > > >up, I
> > > > > > > > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, I
> >cannot
> > > > > >condone
> > > > > > > > > >national self-determination, especially not for
> >the "black
> > > > > > > >nation."  I
> > > > > > > > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed 
self-
> > > > > >determination
> > > > > > > > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated 
debate
> >over the
> > > > > > > >issue.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's
> >Campaign or
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  Since 
we
> >have
> > > > > >never had
> > > > > > > > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you 
think
> >it
> > > > > >belongs
> > > > > > > >in a
> > > > > > > > > >press statement on police brutality, something we 
are
> >against
> > > > > >in
> > > > > > > >both
> > > > > > > > > >theory and practice?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Jim
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
> ><can_bush@h...>
> > > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the Black
> >Nation!??
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE
> >VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >                           NEW BRUNSWICK 
PEOPLE'S
> > > > > >CAMPAIGN
> > > > > > > > > > > >                           Press Secretary
> > > > > > > > > > > >                           P.O. Box 131? New
> >Brunswick,
> > > > > >NJ 08903
> > > > > > > > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR
> >VERNIERO'S
> > > > > >OUSTER
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New 
Brunswick
> >People's
> > > > > > > > > >Campaign,
> > > > > > > > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick 
residents
> >and
> > > > > >their
> > > > > > > > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents 
from all
> > > > > > > >nationalities
> > > > > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following
> >statement today:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC)
> >warmly
> > > > > >welcomes
> > > > > > > > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the 
New
> >Jersey
> > > > > >State
> > > > > > > > > >Senate
> > > > > > > > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme Court
> >Justice
> > > > > >Peter
> > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >   Any police officer who engages in racial
> >profiling and
> > > > > > > > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people of
> >color,
> > > > > >commits
> > > > > > > >a
> > > > > > > > > >hate
> > > > > > > > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by
> >swift and
> > > > > >severe
> > > > > > > > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their
> >superiors who
> > > > > > > >turn a
> > > > > > > > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >   The removal of Justice Verniero would be
> >consistent
> > > > > >with
> > > > > > > > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the Senate
> >Judiciary
> > > > > > > >Committee
> > > > > > > > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's
> >satisfaction, that
> > > > > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial 
profiling
> >in the
> > > > > >state
> > > > > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this
> >hateful
> > > > > >practice.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign further
> >calls
> > > > > >upon the
> > > > > > > > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a resolution
> >calling for
> > > > > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the bipartisan
> >group of
> > > > > > > >senators
> > > > > > > > > >from
> > > > > > > > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >   In light of the facts that have, at long 
last,
> >been
> > > > > >revealed
> > > > > > > > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary
> >Committee's
> > > > > > > >hearings,
> > > > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > > >need for community control over police is now 
more
> >acute
> > > > > >than
> > > > > > > >ever.
> > > > > > > > > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, 
and
> >believes
> > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > > > > >community control, including democratically 
elected
> > > > > >civilian
> > > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end to 
the
> >hate
> > > > > >crimes
> > > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people of
> >color.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >   The minority caucus of the State 
Legislature is
> > > > > >already
> > > > > > > > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all
> >legislators, if
> > > > > >they are
> > > > > > > > > >good
> > > > > > > > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >   FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa 
Coiley -
> > > > > >732/514-0610
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >-30-
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > >
> > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > > > >
> > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > > >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > >
> > > 
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
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> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1455
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-12 23:53:18
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: meet to protest targum
Message:

death to the klan!
demand that the targum not use ink for white supremacist propoganda!

joe


>From: jagross66@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: meet to protest targum
>Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:10:37 -0000
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>wrote:
> > jeremy objects to the proposal that white supremacist propoganda,
>freely
> > spread  through the student funded newspaper of the state
>university, should
> > be protested out of existence?
>
>Okay:  let's at least establish that there's such a thing as REAL
>white supremacist propaganda, the sort of thing you find being put
>out by "white nationalists".  David Horowitz is not _literally_ a
>neofacist, neonazi, or shrill, overt racist of that sort.
>
>If his positions are _structurally_ racist ... you can make that
>argument, easily.  But that's a different kind of racism.  It's like
>the difference between killing someone and letting them die, to use a
>rough analogy.
>
>I don't know about you, but I'd rather make it possible to
>distinguish between David Horowitz and, say, that Barrett guy or the
>Ku Klux Klan.  There's enough of those people that they deserve their
>own special designation.
>
>And, in any case, if you seek to protest the _publication_ of
>opinions you don't like too forcefully, you'll be working to create a
>climate where nobody can feel safe in voicing opinions that differ
>from the mainstream.  The risk would come to seem to great, for
>progressives and reactionaries alike!  Is that really the sort of
>environment you want?  Since when has censorship even helped the
>Left?  Never.  Whenever the Left wants censorship of something,
>authorities end up using that power _against_ the Left.
>
>Bye,
>
>Jeremy
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1456
Sender:"Mathew Levi" <ml@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-15 22:21:55
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: meet to protest targum
Message:

"Duhhhhh...  derrr, uhh, I say throw em in the river, boss. Can I do it, can
I do it?  Aww, come on, lemme do it.  I'm loyal, boss.  Derrr."

> death to the klan!
> demand that the targum not use ink for white supremacist propoganda!
>
> joe
>
>

> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> >wrote:
> > > jeremy objects to the proposal that white supremacist propoganda,
> >freely
> > > spread  through the student funded newspaper of the state
> >university, should
> > > be protested out of existence?
> >
> >Okay:  let's at least establish that there's such a thing as REAL
> >white supremacist propaganda, the sort of thing you find being put
> >out by "white nationalists".  David Horowitz is not _literally_ a
> >neofacist, neonazi, or shrill, overt racist of that sort.
> >
> >If his positions are _structurally_ racist ... you can make that
> >argument, easily.  But that's a different kind of racism.  It's like
> >the difference between killing someone and letting them die, to use a
> >rough analogy.
> >
> >I don't know about you, but I'd rather make it possible to
> >distinguish between David Horowitz and, say, that Barrett guy or the
> >Ku Klux Klan.  There's enough of those people that they deserve their
> >own special designation.
> >
> >And, in any case, if you seek to protest the _publication_ of
> >opinions you don't like too forcefully, you'll be working to create a
> >climate where nobody can feel safe in voicing opinions that differ
> >from the mainstream.  The risk would come to seem to great, for
> >progressives and reactionaries alike!  Is that really the sort of
> >environment you want?  Since when has censorship even helped the
> >Left?  Never.  Whenever the Left wants censorship of something,
> >authorities end up using that power _against_ the Left.
> >
> >Bye,
> >
> >Jeremy
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1457
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 01:58:14
Subject:Re: [nbpc] rain coats
Message:

JOE,
I BELIEVE AS I ALWAYS HAVE, IN FREEDOM. FREEDOM TAKEN IN THE IN THE
SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY. I REGARD DISCIPLE AS INDISPENSABLE, BUT IT MUST
BE SELF-DISCIPLINE PROMPTED BY A SHARED IDEAL AND A STURDY FEELING OF
COMRADESHIP.
TRACY FORD



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1458
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 02:09:37
Subject:Re: [nbpc] rain coats
Message:

JOE,
KNOWING THE PSYCHOLOGY OF PEOPLE, WE KNOW THAT THE SOLDIER OF THE
REVOLUTION WILL NOT EFFECTIVELY IF HE TURNED INTO SOULLESS AUTOMATON
UNDER THE RIGID DISCIPLINE OF A CODE THAT SPEAKS NOT OF RIGHT OR DUTY
BUT RATHER OF OBEDIENCE AND PUNISHMENT. THE OLD FORMULAS ARE
UNACCEPTABLE HERE, BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT LAID DOWN BY A PEOPLE DEFENDING
ITSELF. THEY WERE DESIGNED FOR THE ENSLAVEMENT OF THE PEOPLE, FOR THE
DEFENSE OF EXPLOITER CLASSES USING ARMED FORCE TO PROTECT THEIR
INTERESTS AND THEIR PRIVILEGES.
TRACY FORD



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1459
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 02:21:21
Subject:Re: [nbpc] rain coats
Message:

JOE,
REVOLUTIONARY DISCIPLINE GROWS OUT OF THE BASIS OF CONSCIOUS DUTY AND
NOT OUT OF CONSTRAINT. THE SEVEREST PUNISHMENT THAT A COMRADE REFUSING
TO CARRY OUT HIS TASK IN THE PROLETARIAN REVOLUTIONARY SOCIETY IN
MATTERS MILITARY OR ECONOMIC CAN EARN IS TO FACE SCORN, ISOLATION AND
ULTIMATELY ELIMINATION FROM A SOCIETY WHERE PARASITES HAVE NO PLACE.
TRACY FORD



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1460
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 02:43:28
Subject:Re: [nbpc] rain coats
Message:

IF FRANK BRIGHT STEP DOWN THEN HOUSES, NOT BEING MAINTAINED, ARE GOING
TO WRECK AND RUIN. THE HEATING IS OUT OF ORDER. BROKEN WINDOWS ARE NOT
REPLACED. THE ROOF IS FALLING APART AND WATER IS STARTING TO SEEP
THROUGH. FENCES COLLAPSE. PIPES ARE HALF WRECKED. TOILETS ARE OUT OF
ORDER AND THEIR CONTENTS INVADE THE APARTMENTS, FORCING CITIZENS TO
ANSWER THEIR NEEDS IN THE YARD OR IN A NEIGHBOR'S PLACE. STAIRCASE ARE
STILL UNLIGHTED AND COVERED IN FILTH. THE YARD ARE FULL OF EXCREMENT, ON
ACCOUNT OF THE LATRINES, RUBBISH BINS, SEWAGE OUTLETS AND SPOUTING BEING
NEITHER REPAIRED OR EMPTIED. THE STREET ARE FILTHY. THE PAVEMENTS, WHICH
ARE NEVER REPAIRED ARE GRIMY AND SLICK. WALKING THE STREETS ARE
DANGEROUS.

THIS THE CITY YOU WANT TO LIVE IN. IT IS NOT ME. FRANK BRIGHT STAY WHERE
HE AT AND MOST USEFUL TO THE PEOPLE
TRACY FORD



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1461
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 02:50:49
Subject:Re: [nbpc] rain coats
Message:

COMRADES! JOE & CO. ARE GOING TO BUILD US A SPLENDID LIFE.
JOE & CO. ARE GONG TO DESTROY THE WORLD OF VIOLENCE  AND JOE & CO. WILL
BUILD US A NEW, SOCIALIST, QUITE BEAUTIFUL WORLD.
TRACY FORD



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1462
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 05:44:17
Subject:Why I won't pay the Daily Princetonian
Message:

jagross66@... thought you would be interested in this article at
Salon.com http://www.salon.com
jagross66@... came from IP: 128.6.175.83

Your friend's message:

In case anyone wants a sense of _why_ David Horowitz began his ad campaign.  Note especially the last paragraph.  

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Why I won't pay the Daily Princetonian
By David Horowitz

http://www.salon.com/news/col/horo/2001/04/16/princetonian/index.html

Yes, the paper ran my anti-reparations ad, but the editorial printed alongside it was pure slander.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Mon Apr 16 02:44:17 2001







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1463
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 11:32:58
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

Friends:

Bigotry of all kinds is morally and legally wrong and is against the 
basic spirit of unity in the Campaign.  In that vein, I am entirely 
outraged that in the past week, both Jim Luceno and Joe Smith have 
chosen to express bigoted views on this board.  Specifically,

Jim: "Christians and other forms of life [are] entirely weak, 
pre-modern, or out of touch with reality."  (message 1454) 

Joe (quoting a poem from A. Baraka):  "We want poems 
like fists beating niggers out of Jocks 
or dagger poems in the slimy bellies 
of the owner-jews.  ....  Another bad poem cracking 
steel knuckles in a jewlady's mouth."  (message 1381).


Religious bigotry is not what this Campaign is about.  Gentlemen, 
please explain yourselves!!






--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., jmluceno@e... wrote:
> Did someone replace the hemispheres of your brain with two German 
> Shepherds?  This is not an esoteric point.  
> 
> "I don't ally myself with facts.  SELF-DETERMINATION!!!!"
> 
> MAKE A FRIGGIN ARGUMENT.  Your responses amount to, "No, you're 
> wrong. Fuck you."  This is why I have given up on these useless 
back-
> and-forths.  You have yet to write one argument against what I am 
> saying.  Yes, I know you support the black nation.  Yes, I know you 
> believe in reparations.  Yes I know you believe in self-
> determination.  
> 
> Am I to understand you hold these opinions on faith alone?  Who 
told 
> you this stuff anyway?  You got these ideas from somewhere.
> 
> Look: Faith is for Christians and other forms of life entirely 
weak, 
> pre-modern, or out of touch with reality.  Please convince me of 
your 
> view.  I would like to be part of your hip herd, really.  But not 
> before I hear a convincing argument.  
> 
> Let's start:  Why do African-Americans constitute a *nation*?
> 
> Until you give me a convincing argument, and as long as you respond 
> my saying I have the line of the "klan," then I will be forced to 
> label you separatist, secessionist, even sectarian.  You have the 
> line of Idi Amin.
> 
> --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> 
> wrote:
> > "What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have to
> > >slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because 
slavery
> > >was abolished".
> > 
> > "And I stress once again -- the extent to which a nation 
emphasizes
> > >its uniqueness as a people based upon an innate sense of 
belonging 
> to
> > >a culture that makes it different from "western ideas" or, even
> > >better, "white ideas", is the extent to which is supports
> > >totalitarianism."  --jim luceno
> > 
> > keith, care to ally yrself with this?
> > call me "ultraleft" but i stand with the oppressed black nation, 
> and all 
> > oppressed nations against imperialism & imperialist apologies.
> > 
> > 
> > "On the other list you were just saying that you would help kick 
my 
> ass if I 
> > made this argument on the street outside my house"  j-low
> > 
> >                  ^^^this is a lie.^^^
> > 
> > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > >Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 21:20:11 -0000
> > >
> > >Joe --
> > >
> > >I think slaves should be repaid for slavery, but as far as I can
> > >tell, the last of the slaves died over a 100 years ago.
> > >
> > >What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have to
> > >slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because 
slavery
> > >was abolished.
> > >
> > >What African-Americans do have an immediate connection with is 
> racism
> > >and capitalism.  They aren't impoverished because of slavery.  
> That's
> > >absurd.  They're impoverished because of racism.
> > >
> > >What are you going to do about racism?  You're going to throw 
money
> > >at it.  Great.  Are you *really* that cynical?  All black people 
> care
> > >about is getting cash for slavery?
> > >
> > >You're being vague vague vague about this question of self-
> > >determination.  What are the boundaries that form the black 
nation?
> > >What is the geographical location that they have an ancestral
> > >connection to?  What do you mean by "community control"?  You're
> > >going to fight off capitalism by roping off the inner cities?  
What
> > >does the inner city produce that anybody needs?
> > >
> > >Gee wiz, welcome to Dialectics 101.  You cannot isolate a 
> phenomenon
> > >from the totality, or else it becomes one-sided.  One-sidedeness 
is
> > >exactly what the call for self-determation of the black nation 
is.
> > >
> > >Revolution requires that the proletariat have an awareness of the
> > >*totality* of the system of capitalist production.  It does not 
> mean
> > >having an awareness of PARTICULAR cultural or ancestral heritage.
> > >And I stress once again -- the extent to which a nation 
emphasizes
> > >its uniqueness as a people based upon an innate sense of 
belonging 
> to
> > >a culture that makes it different from "western ideas" or, even
> > >better, "white ideas", is the extent to which is supports
> > >totalitarianism.  If you're going to prove it to me otherwise, 
> you're
> > >not going to prove it on the basis of history.  History backs me 
> up.
> > >It abandons you.
> > >
> > >There is an implicit idea in Marx that we move toward a UNIVERSAL
> > >conception of culture.  Do you recognize it?  On the other list 
you
> > >were just saying that you would help kick my ass if I made this
> > >argument on the street outside my house, so I somehow doubt you 
> do...
> > >
> > >Jim
> > >
> > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> 
> wrote:
> > > > jim, do you agree that slaves should be repaid for slavery? 
do 
> you
> > >think
> > > > workers should be repaid for exploitation? do you think 
> students of
> > > > segregation should be repaid for education?
> > > >
> > > > when you first posted that there are some arguements that you 
> can
> > >agree
> > > > with, but they can be beat by arguements countering it. (it 
> being
> > > > reperations and self-determination) can you explain the 
> arguements
> > >that you
> > > > support without bringing up the better counters? i want to
> > >underrstand what
> > > > you think.
> > > >
> > > > joe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...>
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > >Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1980 22:37:00 -0500
> > > > >
> > > > >I thought that this was a good discussion. I advocate Self D 
> and
> > > > >Repartaions and Jim
> > > > >and I have debated it in the past. The discussion was 
actaully
> > >moving
> > > > >forward, and
> > > > >many times Jim made the case for Self-D without even meaning 
> to.
> > >For
> > > > >insatnce when he
> > > > >says that the overthrow of reconstruction resulted in "pre-
> modern
> > >classes"
> > > > >taking
> > > > >control of the Soutrh. That is the point, the relationship of
> > > > >Afro-Americans to the US
> > > > >is not even at the level that should be achieved in 
democratic
> > >anti-feudal
> > > > >revolutions. Self-D addresses that very point.
> > > > >However, to say that Jim's analysis is the same as the Klan 
is 
> an
> > > > >ultra-left error and
> > > > >a un- informed remark. First of all,  most people are against
> > >reparations
> > > > >that's why
> > > > >we have to struggle for it; otherwise we would already have 
> it. To
> > >say that
> > > > >Jim's
> > > > >analysis is the same as the Klan (even though you did not 
call 
> him
> > >a Klans
> > > > >man) is
> > > > >counter-revolutionary because it disorganizes the people 
rather
> > >than
> > > > >organize them.
> > > > >Instead of drawing revolutionary intellectuals and workers 
> closer
> > >togther
> > > > >towards
> > > > >unity around a common platform it pushes them away towards
> > >disunity.
> > > > >I would take it as an extreme insult if someone were to say 
I 
> had
> > >a line
> > > > >analgous to
> > > > >the Klan given that I identify as a revolutionary, why would 
> you
> > >expect Jim
> > > > >to do
> > > > >otherwise? How does saying he has a line like the Klan 
educate 
> him
> > >or
> > > > >change his mind
> > > > >or even just contribute meaningfully to the debate?
> > > > >This is one particular example of an ultra-left trend of 
which 
> the
> > >attack
> > > > >on Curtis is
> > > > >but another example. This line is sectarian because it 
creates 
> an
> > >enemy
> > > > >where there
> > > > >was/should/could be an ally.   The defeat of this ultra-left 
> line
> > >and its
> > > > >rectification along Marxist-Leninist lines will be a geat 
force
> > >towards
> > > > >uniting
> > > > >revolutionarys in New Brunswick and in New Jersey and will 
go a
> > >long way in
> > > > >  defeating
> > > > >the local Social-Democrat liberal missionary line that 
> dominates
> > >NJFO and
> > > > >the People's
> > > > >Campaign. If you can not maintain even an alliance with 
people
> > >like Jim and
> > > > >Curtis (to
> > > > >name but two examples) the movemnt will not grow, no one 
will 
> be
> > >organized
> > > > >and we will
> > > > >have 5  organizations for four  people. Discussion is a good
> > >vehicle to
> > > > >bring
> > > > >ideological clarity and unity but if discussion is just an 
> excuse
> > >to force
> > > > >people to
> > > > >accept your line with verbal abuse it becomes a servant of
> > >imperialsim.
> > > > >
> > > > >cliff smith wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > the theft of national "value" is incidental to the 
> destruction
> > >of
> > > > >national
> > > > > > "soveriegnty"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > stealing something from you is disconnected from denying 
> your
> > >right to
> > > > >it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > imperialism (or any social relation) cannot be understood 
> only
> > > > >economically,
> > > > > > & not also necessarily politically.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the u.s. cannot control arab oil without 1st toppling 
> national
> > > > >governments.
> > > > > > else why eliminate allende?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > it is a white supremacist position to deny the national
> > >oppression of
> > > > >Black
> > > > > > America.  j&j steals from everyone equally?  nb 
> Blacks/Latinos
> > >are not
> > > > > > super-exploited/oppressed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > what is racial profiling? a class question only? was 
diallo
> > >obliterated
> > > > >for
> > > > > > being poor only? how to explaing the lynching of james 
byrd 
> by
> > >poor
> > > > >whites?
> > > > > > any lynching? the denial of democratic rights, education, 
> jobs?
> > >the
> > > > >vast,
> > > > > > utter impoverishment of the Black Belt (geographic Nation)
> > >south?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > u.s. imperialism does not merely steal labor power from 
> Afro-
> > >America,
> > > > >but
> > > > > > most definitely robs its national "value".  impedes its
> > >economic,
> > > > >political,
> > > > > > & cultural development.  what is the relationship of benny
> > >goodman to
> > > > >jazz,
> > > > > > of eminem to hiphop, of the nba to allen iverson?  who 
> profit$
> > >from
> > > > >these
> > > > > > Black national markets?  sony?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > if yr serious in understanding these relations, start with
> > >dubois "black
> > > > > > reconstruction" & baraka's "black nation" or listen to 
some
> > >charles
> > > > >mingus.
> > > > > > yr analysis now is that of the klan.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > > > >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:13:28 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national 
> self-
> > > > > > >determination &
> > > > > > > > the theft of national resources.  your
> > >celebrated "modernism" is
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real 
value
> > >from one
> > > > > > >country and its transportation into another.  Loss of 
> national
> > > > > > >sovereignty is incidental to it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations in 
> the
> > >U.S. and
> > > > > > >the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book 
and 
> Huey
> > > > > > >Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say that 
if
> > >you like,
> > > > > > >but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and
> > >industrialization has
> > > > > > >long-since left the cities for the most part.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are 
> stealing
> > >national
> > > > > > >resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor power.
> > >I'll agree
> > > > > > >to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a 
class
> > >question,
> > > > > > >not a race question.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > you have no national relation to sanford st.  however
> > >democracy
> > > > > > >means those
> > > > > > > > oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st & 
> the
> > >US urban
> > > > > > >centers,
> > > > > > > > and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne Nations 
> have
> > >the
> > > > > > >right to
> > > > > > > > politically & economically control those areas in 
which
> > >they are
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > plurality. to determine their relationship to the US, 
> which
> > >they
> > > > > > >have never
> > > > > > > > done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of all 
> Black
> > >peoples
> > > > > > >in US.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Alright.  So you're talking about political control at 
the
> > >grassroots
> > > > > > >level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of
> > >*race*?  Why?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Do you extend this right to all local groups that 
identify
> > >themselves
> > > > > > >as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your 
> brother's
> > >word)
> > > > > > >out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom 
> want to
> > >form
> > > > > > >their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.
> > >Should they
> > > > > > >be allowed to?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of local
> > >government
> > > > > > >(returning rights to the states, to municipalities, what 
> have
> > >you)
> > > > > > >has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say 
what
> > >you will
> > > > > > >about the United States federal government, but at least 
> they
> > > > > > >enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More 
than
> > >what the
> > > > > > >state governments would have done.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >For that matter, why do you want to divide the working 
> class
> > >along
> > > > > > >race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain 
people 
> are
> > >unique
> > > > > > >based strictly upon their connection to some kind of 
> cultural
> > > > > > >heritage or land, something that that *outsiders* cannot
> > >understand,
> > > > > > >sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity 
> garbage
> > >is what
> > > > > > >every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi Amin 
> spouts
> > >before
> > > > > > >sending people to the camps.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?  
> Let's
> > >be real.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > you should develop a community consciousness at 
sanford 
> st
> > >& demand
> > > > > > > > community self-determination against j&j dictatorship,
> > >which is the
> > > > > > >heart of
> > > > > > > > the demand "community control". not "work with j&j to 
> solve
> > > > > > >problems".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a
> > >community
> > > > > > >where people don't have power, and they'll exploit 
there.  
> Or
> > >better
> > > > > > >yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is your 
> self-
> > > > > > >determination, then?  That's why you need to have an
> > >international
> > > > > > >movement that unites the working class across all 
lines.  
> Class
> > > > > > >alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat imperialism, 
> then
> > >we can
> > > > > > >talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we 
need
> > >something
> > > > > > >concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest of 
> the
> > > > > > >proletariat.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction by
> > >fascist
> > > > > > >terror. the
> > > > > > > > "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 hayes-
> tilden
> > > > > > >scheme.  where
> > > > > > > > is the 40acres & mule?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than the
> > >return of
> > > > > > >power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the
> > >southern
> > > > > > >cracker who is about as modern flint knife.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Face it.  If the United States government had enforced
> > >Reconstruction
> > > > > > >by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the U.S.
> > >army, that
> > > > > > >would have afforded them real local control and self-
> > >determination.
> > > > > > >Instead they passed it off for the states to decide who 
> could
> > >have
> > > > > > >guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you 
> don't
> > > > > > >institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of 
> federal
> > >force?
> > > > > > >What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it 
away
> > >because it
> > > > > > >does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The 
line 
> is
> > >drawn
> > > > > > >between the people who produce value, and those to reap 
the
> > >harvest.
> > > > > > >Not between black or white or geographical location.  
> Progress
> > > > > > >requires an ideological and political unity of the part 
of
> > >human-kind
> > > > > > >that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is the
> > > > > > >proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and 
real
> > >political
> > > > > > >freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You 
> forget
> > >about
> > > > > > >the "religious" differences.  Save religion for history 
> class
> > >about
> > > > > > >the middle ages.  Forget about color differences, 
because 
> the
> > >idea
> > > > > > >that people are different based upon "race" is exactly 
the
> > >idea we
> > > > > > >want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of the
> > > > > > >superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being a 
> part
> > >of
> > > > > > >the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.
> > >Because you
> > > > > > >better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once
> > >redevelopment
> > > > > > >and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into 
> enclaves
> > >in the
> > > > > > >suburbs.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the 
power 
> of
> > >the
> > > > > > >bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by
> > >balkanizing
> > > > > > >the United States?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Black America thoroughly meets the definition of 
nation:
> > >common
> > > > > > >geographic
> > > > > > > > area, culture, history, developed economy, as put 
> forward
> > >first by
> > > > > > >Joe
> > > > > > > > Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think 
about 
> how
> > >Joe
> > > > > > >Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination 
for
> > >Lenin, and
> > > > > > >how he went and created an imperialist empire of 
satellites
> > >after the
> > > > > > >war.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > self-determination & reparations for women against
> > >patriarchy!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > self-determination & reparations for workers against
> > >capital!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > people vs. imperialism
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > > > > > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >So if I want to break off and form a country out of
> > >Sandford St.
> > > > > > >down
> > > > > > > > >here, that's ok?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-
> > >determination.  I'm
> > > > > > > > >not following.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm 
down
> > >with radical
> > > > > > > > >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But 
> where do
> > >you get
> > > > > > > > >reparations out of this?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >And show me how rejecting national self-
determination 
> and
> > > > > > >reparations
> > > > > > > > >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith"
> > ><cliffsmith69@h...>
> > > > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > self-determination & reparations are basic 
> democratic
> > >rights and
> > > > > > > > >the only
> > > > > > > > > > "concrete" political basis for national equality.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > scratch a social democrat, find a white 
supremacist.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE
> > >VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Joe,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's 
> Campaign, I
> > >am not
> > > > > > > > >convinced
> > > > > > > > > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That 
> is, I
> > >have not
> > > > > > > > >heard
> > > > > > > > > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the 
only
> > >arguments I
> > > > > > >can
> > > > > > > > > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by 
arguments
> > >against it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted 
on 
> a
> > >statement
> > > > > > > > >about
> > > > > > > > > > >reparations or national self-determination.  If 
the
> > >debate came
> > > > > > > > >up, I
> > > > > > > > > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism, 
I
> > >cannot
> > > > > > >condone
> > > > > > > > > > >national self-determination, especially not for
> > >the "black
> > > > > > > > >nation."  I
> > > > > > > > > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed 
> self-
> > > > > > >determination
> > > > > > > > > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated 
> debate
> > >over the
> > > > > > > > >issue.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's
> > >Campaign or
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  
Since 
> we
> > >have
> > > > > > >never had
> > > > > > > > > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you 
> think
> > >it
> > > > > > >belongs
> > > > > > > > >in a
> > > > > > > > > > >press statement on police brutality, something 
we 
> are
> > >against
> > > > > > >in
> > > > > > > > >both
> > > > > > > > > > >theory and practice?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Jim
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
> > ><can_bush@h...>
> > > > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the 
Black
> > >Nation!??
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE
> > >VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >                           NEW BRUNSWICK 
> PEOPLE'S
> > > > > > >CAMPAIGN
> > > > > > > > > > > > >                           Press Secretary
> > > > > > > > > > > > >                           P.O. Box 131? New
> > >Brunswick,
> > > > > > >NJ 08903
> > > > > > > > > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR
> > >VERNIERO'S
> > > > > > >OUSTER
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New 
> Brunswick
> > >People's
> > > > > > > > > > >Campaign,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick 
> residents
> > >and
> > > > > > >their
> > > > > > > > > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents 
> from all
> > > > > > > > >nationalities
> > > > > > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following
> > >statement today:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC)
> > >warmly
> > > > > > >welcomes
> > > > > > > > > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the 
> New
> > >Jersey
> > > > > > >State
> > > > > > > > > > >Senate
> > > > > > > > > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme 
Court
> > >Justice
> > > > > > >Peter
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >   Any police officer who engages in racial
> > >profiling and
> > > > > > > > > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people 
of
> > >color,
> > > > > > >commits
> > > > > > > > >a
> > > > > > > > > > >hate
> > > > > > > > > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by
> > >swift and
> > > > > > >severe
> > > > > > > > > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their
> > >superiors who
> > > > > > > > >turn a
> > > > > > > > > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >   The removal of Justice Verniero would be
> > >consistent
> > > > > > >with
> > > > > > > > > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the 
Senate
> > >Judiciary
> > > > > > > > >Committee
> > > > > > > > > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's
> > >satisfaction, that
> > > > > > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial 
> profiling
> > >in the
> > > > > > >state
> > > > > > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this
> > >hateful
> > > > > > >practice.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign 
further
> > >calls
> > > > > > >upon the
> > > > > > > > > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a 
resolution
> > >calling for
> > > > > > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the 
bipartisan
> > >group of
> > > > > > > > >senators
> > > > > > > > > > >from
> > > > > > > > > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >   In light of the facts that have, at long 
> last,
> > >been
> > > > > > >revealed
> > > > > > > > > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary
> > >Committee's
> > > > > > > > >hearings,
> > > > > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > > > >need for community control over police is 
now 
> more
> > >acute
> > > > > > >than
> > > > > > > > >ever.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >NBPC supports community control over police, 
> and
> > >believes
> > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > > > > > >community control, including democratically 
> elected
> > > > > > >civilian
> > > > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end 
to 
> the
> > >hate
> > > > > > >crimes
> > > > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people 
of
> > >color.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >   The minority caucus of the State 
> Legislature is
> > > > > > >already
> > > > > > > > > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all
> > >legislators, if
> > > > > > >they are
> > > > > > > > > > >good
> > > > > > > > > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >   FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa 
> Coiley -
> > > > > > >732/514-0610
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >-30-
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > 
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > 
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > > > >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > 
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
> http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1464
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 11:37:06
Subject:Re: [nbpc] rain coats
Message:

bright is a theif! community control over housing!

joe


>From: TRACYFORD1420@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] rain coats
>Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:43:28 -0400 (EDT)
>
>IF FRANK BRIGHT STEP DOWN THEN HOUSES, NOT BEING MAINTAINED, ARE GOING
>TO WRECK AND RUIN. THE HEATING IS OUT OF ORDER. BROKEN WINDOWS ARE NOT
>REPLACED. THE ROOF IS FALLING APART AND WATER IS STARTING TO SEEP
>THROUGH. FENCES COLLAPSE. PIPES ARE HALF WRECKED. TOILETS ARE OUT OF
>ORDER AND THEIR CONTENTS INVADE THE APARTMENTS, FORCING CITIZENS TO
>ANSWER THEIR NEEDS IN THE YARD OR IN A NEIGHBOR'S PLACE. STAIRCASE ARE
>STILL UNLIGHTED AND COVERED IN FILTH. THE YARD ARE FULL OF EXCREMENT, ON
>ACCOUNT OF THE LATRINES, RUBBISH BINS, SEWAGE OUTLETS AND SPOUTING BEING
>NEITHER REPAIRED OR EMPTIED. THE STREET ARE FILTHY. THE PAVEMENTS, WHICH
>ARE NEVER REPAIRED ARE GRIMY AND SLICK. WALKING THE STREETS ARE
>DANGEROUS.
>
>THIS THE CITY YOU WANT TO LIVE IN. IT IS NOT ME. FRANK BRIGHT STAY WHERE
>HE AT AND MOST USEFUL TO THE PEOPLE
>TRACY FORD
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1465
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 12:00:47
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

i did not post the poem by baraka, cliff did. but as far as the spirit of 
the campaign, i would like an explaination as to why you are not "entirely 
outraged" that bright is a theif that stole what belongs to the people of 
public housing. why is it that flavio is always buddying up to him, rather 
than being "entirely outraged". who are our friends and who  are our 
enemies? nbpc is more allied with republicans than the tenants of public 
housing. under these relations, the more nbpc works to destabalize the 
democratic machine, the more nbpc will strenghten the republican machine.

i can't relate to your outrage flavio, because you can really care less 
about the people of new brunswick and the activists fighting for democratic 
community control. this will play out when nbpc votes not to work on the 
elected school board campaign april 28.

joe

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1466
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 12:04:10
Subject:Response to "bigotry"
Message:

I agree, like Malcolm said (to paraphrase)- leave your religious beliefs at 
home...when we come together, let it be to find political unity.  The thing 
that is most unhelpful here is that Joe posted a poem of Amiri's from the 
60's writen during his 'nationalist' days without bothering to put it in the 
context of the ensuing 25 years of development...in short, these are 
positions that he has repeatedly criticized himself (See the Autobiography 
of LeRoi Jones, A.B.) -Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: Groovemeister007@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:32:58 -0000

Friends:

Bigotry of all kinds is morally and legally wrong and is against the
basic spirit of unity in the Campaign.  In that vein, I am entirely
outraged that in the past week, both Jim Luceno and Joe Smith have
chosen to express bigoted views on this board.  Specifically,

Jim: "Christians and other forms of life [are] entirely weak,
pre-modern, or out of touch with reality."  (message 1454)

Joe (quoting a poem from A. Baraka):  "We want poems
like fists beating niggers out of Jocks
or dagger poems in the slimy bellies
of the owner-jews.  ....  Another bad poem cracking
steel knuckles in a jewlady's mouth."  (message 1381).


Religious bigotry is not what this Campaign is about.  Gentlemen,
please explain yourselves!!






--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., jmluceno@e... wrote:
 > Did someone replace the hemispheres of your brain with two German
 > Shepherds?  This is not an esoteric point.
 >
 > "I don't ally myself with facts.  SELF-DETERMINATION!!!!"
 >
 > MAKE A FRIGGIN ARGUMENT.  Your responses amount to, "No, you're
 > wrong. Fuck you."  This is why I have given up on these useless
back-
 > and-forths.  You have yet to write one argument against what I am
 > saying.  Yes, I know you support the black nation.  Yes, I know you
 > believe in reparations.  Yes I know you believe in self-
 > determination.
 >
 > Am I to understand you hold these opinions on faith alone?  Who
told
 > you this stuff anyway?  You got these ideas from somewhere.
 >
 > Look: Faith is for Christians and other forms of life entirely
weak,
 > pre-modern, or out of touch with reality.  Please convince me of
your
 > view.  I would like to be part of your hip herd, really.  But not
 > before I hear a convincing argument.
 >
 > Let's start:  Why do African-Americans constitute a *nation*?
 >
 > Until you give me a convincing argument, and as long as you respond
 > my saying I have the line of the "klan," then I will be forced to
 > label you separatist, secessionist, even sectarian.  You have the
 > line of Idi Amin.
 >
 > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
 > wrote:
 > > "What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have to
 > > >slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because
slavery
 > > >was abolished".
 > >
 > > "And I stress once again -- the extent to which a nation
emphasizes
 > > >its uniqueness as a people based upon an innate sense of
belonging
 > to
 > > >a culture that makes it different from "western ideas" or, even
 > > >better, "white ideas", is the extent to which is supports
 > > >totalitarianism."  --jim luceno
 > >
 > > keith, care to ally yrself with this?
 > > call me "ultraleft" but i stand with the oppressed black nation,
 > and all
 > > oppressed nations against imperialism & imperialist apologies.
 > >
 > >
 > > "On the other list you were just saying that you would help kick
my
 > ass if I
 > > made this argument on the street outside my house"  j-low
 > >
 > >                  ^^^this is a lie.^^^
 > >
 > > >From: jmluceno@e...
 > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
 > > >Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 21:20:11 -0000
 > > >
 > > >Joe --
 > > >
 > > >I think slaves should be repaid for slavery, but as far as I can
 > > >tell, the last of the slaves died over a 100 years ago.
 > > >
 > > >What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have to
 > > >slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because
slavery
 > > >was abolished.
 > > >
 > > >What African-Americans do have an immediate connection with is
 > racism
 > > >and capitalism.  They aren't impoverished because of slavery.
 > That's
 > > >absurd.  They're impoverished because of racism.
 > > >
 > > >What are you going to do about racism?  You're going to throw
money
 > > >at it.  Great.  Are you *really* that cynical?  All black people
 > care
 > > >about is getting cash for slavery?
 > > >
 > > >You're being vague vague vague about this question of self-
 > > >determination.  What are the boundaries that form the black
nation?
 > > >What is the geographical location that they have an ancestral
 > > >connection to?  What do you mean by "community control"?  You're
 > > >going to fight off capitalism by roping off the inner cities?
What
 > > >does the inner city produce that anybody needs?
 > > >
 > > >Gee wiz, welcome to Dialectics 101.  You cannot isolate a
 > phenomenon
 > > >from the totality, or else it becomes one-sided.  One-sidedeness
is
 > > >exactly what the call for self-determation of the black nation
is.
 > > >
 > > >Revolution requires that the proletariat have an awareness of the
 > > >*totality* of the system of capitalist production.  It does not
 > mean
 > > >having an awareness of PARTICULAR cultural or ancestral heritage.
 > > >And I stress once again -- the extent to which a nation
emphasizes
 > > >its uniqueness as a people based upon an innate sense of
belonging
 > to
 > > >a culture that makes it different from "western ideas" or, even
 > > >better, "white ideas", is the extent to which is supports
 > > >totalitarianism.  If you're going to prove it to me otherwise,
 > you're
 > > >not going to prove it on the basis of history.  History backs me
 > up.
 > > >It abandons you.
 > > >
 > > >There is an implicit idea in Marx that we move toward a UNIVERSAL
 > > >conception of culture.  Do you recognize it?  On the other list
you
 > > >were just saying that you would help kick my ass if I made this
 > > >argument on the street outside my house, so I somehow doubt you
 > do...
 > > >
 > > >Jim
 > > >
 > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
 > wrote:
 > > > > jim, do you agree that slaves should be repaid for slavery?
do
 > you
 > > >think
 > > > > workers should be repaid for exploitation? do you think
 > students of
 > > > > segregation should be repaid for education?
 > > > >
 > > > > when you first posted that there are some arguements that you
 > can
 > > >agree
 > > > > with, but they can be beat by arguements countering it. (it
 > being
 > > > > reperations and self-determination) can you explain the
 > arguements
 > > >that you
 > > > > support without bringing up the better counters? i want to
 > > >underrstand what
 > > > > you think.
 > > > >
 > > > > joe
 > > > >
 > > > >
 > > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...>
 > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
 > > > > >Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1980 22:37:00 -0500
 > > > > >
 > > > > >I thought that this was a good discussion. I advocate Self D
 > and
 > > > > >Repartaions and Jim
 > > > > >and I have debated it in the past. The discussion was
actaully
 > > >moving
 > > > > >forward, and
 > > > > >many times Jim made the case for Self-D without even meaning
 > to.
 > > >For
 > > > > >insatnce when he
 > > > > >says that the overthrow of reconstruction resulted in "pre-
 > modern
 > > >classes"
 > > > > >taking
 > > > > >control of the Soutrh. That is the point, the relationship of
 > > > > >Afro-Americans to the US
 > > > > >is not even at the level that should be achieved in
democratic
 > > >anti-feudal
 > > > > >revolutions. Self-D addresses that very point.
 > > > > >However, to say that Jim's analysis is the same as the Klan
is
 > an
 > > > > >ultra-left error and
 > > > > >a un- informed remark. First of all,  most people are against
 > > >reparations
 > > > > >that's why
 > > > > >we have to struggle for it; otherwise we would already have
 > it. To
 > > >say that
 > > > > >Jim's
 > > > > >analysis is the same as the Klan (even though you did not
call
 > him
 > > >a Klans
 > > > > >man) is
 > > > > >counter-revolutionary because it disorganizes the people
rather
 > > >than
 > > > > >organize them.
 > > > > >Instead of drawing revolutionary intellectuals and workers
 > closer
 > > >togther
 > > > > >towards
 > > > > >unity around a common platform it pushes them away towards
 > > >disunity.
 > > > > >I would take it as an extreme insult if someone were to say
I
 > had
 > > >a line
 > > > > >analgous to
 > > > > >the Klan given that I identify as a revolutionary, why would
 > you
 > > >expect Jim
 > > > > >to do
 > > > > >otherwise? How does saying he has a line like the Klan
educate
 > him
 > > >or
 > > > > >change his mind
 > > > > >or even just contribute meaningfully to the debate?
 > > > > >This is one particular example of an ultra-left trend of
which
 > the
 > > >attack
 > > > > >on Curtis is
 > > > > >but another example. This line is sectarian because it
creates
 > an
 > > >enemy
 > > > > >where there
 > > > > >was/should/could be an ally.   The defeat of this ultra-left
 > line
 > > >and its
 > > > > >rectification along Marxist-Leninist lines will be a geat
force
 > > >towards
 > > > > >uniting
 > > > > >revolutionarys in New Brunswick and in New Jersey and will
go a
 > > >long way in
 > > > > >  defeating
 > > > > >the local Social-Democrat liberal missionary line that
 > dominates
 > > >NJFO and
 > > > > >the People's
 > > > > >Campaign. If you can not maintain even an alliance with
people
 > > >like Jim and
 > > > > >Curtis (to
 > > > > >name but two examples) the movemnt will not grow, no one
will
 > be
 > > >organized
 > > > > >and we will
 > > > > >have 5  organizations for four  people. Discussion is a good
 > > >vehicle to
 > > > > >bring
 > > > > >ideological clarity and unity but if discussion is just an
 > excuse
 > > >to force
 > > > > >people to
 > > > > >accept your line with verbal abuse it becomes a servant of
 > > >imperialsim.
 > > > > >
 > > > > >cliff smith wrote:
 > > > > >
 > > > > > > the theft of national "value" is incidental to the
 > destruction
 > > >of
 > > > > >national
 > > > > > > "soveriegnty"?
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > > stealing something from you is disconnected from denying
 > your
 > > >right to
 > > > > >it?
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > > imperialism (or any social relation) cannot be understood
 > only
 > > > > >economically,
 > > > > > > & not also necessarily politically.
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > > the u.s. cannot control arab oil without 1st toppling
 > national
 > > > > >governments.
 > > > > > > else why eliminate allende?
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > > it is a white supremacist position to deny the national
 > > >oppression of
 > > > > >Black
 > > > > > > America.  j&j steals from everyone equally?  nb
 > Blacks/Latinos
 > > >are not
 > > > > > > super-exploited/oppressed?
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > > what is racial profiling? a class question only? was
diallo
 > > >obliterated
 > > > > >for
 > > > > > > being poor only? how to explaing the lynching of james
byrd
 > by
 > > >poor
 > > > > >whites?
 > > > > > > any lynching? the denial of democratic rights, education,
 > jobs?
 > > >the
 > > > > >vast,
 > > > > > > utter impoverishment of the Black Belt (geographic Nation)
 > > >south?
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > > u.s. imperialism does not merely steal labor power from
 > Afro-
 > > >America,
 > > > > >but
 > > > > > > most definitely robs its national "value".  impedes its
 > > >economic,
 > > > > >political,
 > > > > > > & cultural development.  what is the relationship of benny
 > > >goodman to
 > > > > >jazz,
 > > > > > > of eminem to hiphop, of the nba to allen iverson?  who
 > profit$
 > > >from
 > > > > >these
 > > > > > > Black national markets?  sony?
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > > if yr serious in understanding these relations, start with
 > > >dubois "black
 > > > > > > reconstruction" & baraka's "black nation" or listen to
some
 > > >charles
 > > > > >mingus.
 > > > > > > yr analysis now is that of the klan.
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
 > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
 > > > > > > >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:13:28 -0000
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of national
 > self-
 > > > > > > >determination &
 > > > > > > > > the theft of national resources.  your
 > > >celebrated "modernism" is
 > > > > > > >the
 > > > > > > > > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real
value
 > > >from one
 > > > > > > >country and its transportation into another.  Loss of
 > national
 > > > > > > >sovereignty is incidental to it.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations in
 > the
 > > >U.S. and
 > > > > > > >the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book
and
 > Huey
 > > > > > > >Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say that
if
 > > >you like,
 > > > > > > >but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and
 > > >industrialization has
 > > > > > > >long-since left the cities for the most part.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are
 > stealing
 > > >national
 > > > > > > >resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor power.
 > > >I'll agree
 > > > > > > >to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a
class
 > > >question,
 > > > > > > >not a race question.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > you have no national relation to sanford st.  however
 > > >democracy
 > > > > > > >means those
 > > > > > > > > oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st &
 > the
 > > >US urban
 > > > > > > >centers,
 > > > > > > > > and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne Nations
 > have
 > > >the
 > > > > > > >right to
 > > > > > > > > politically & economically control those areas in
which
 > > >they are
 > > > > > > >the
 > > > > > > > > plurality. to determine their relationship to the US,
 > which
 > > >they
 > > > > > > >have never
 > > > > > > > > done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of all
 > Black
 > > >peoples
 > > > > > > >in US.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >Alright.  So you're talking about political control at
the
 > > >grassroots
 > > > > > > >level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of
 > > >*race*?  Why?
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >Do you extend this right to all local groups that
identify
 > > >themselves
 > > > > > > >as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your
 > brother's
 > > >word)
 > > > > > > >out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom
 > want to
 > > >form
 > > > > > > >their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.
 > > >Should they
 > > > > > > >be allowed to?
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of local
 > > >government
 > > > > > > >(returning rights to the states, to municipalities, what
 > have
 > > >you)
 > > > > > > >has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say
what
 > > >you will
 > > > > > > >about the United States federal government, but at least
 > they
 > > > > > > >enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More
than
 > > >what the
 > > > > > > >state governments would have done.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >For that matter, why do you want to divide the working
 > class
 > > >along
 > > > > > > >race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain
people
 > are
 > > >unique
 > > > > > > >based strictly upon their connection to some kind of
 > cultural
 > > > > > > >heritage or land, something that that *outsiders* cannot
 > > >understand,
 > > > > > > >sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity
 > garbage
 > > >is what
 > > > > > > >every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi Amin
 > spouts
 > > >before
 > > > > > > >sending people to the camps.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?
 > Let's
 > > >be real.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > you should develop a community consciousness at
sanford
 > st
 > > >& demand
 > > > > > > > > community self-determination against j&j dictatorship,
 > > >which is the
 > > > > > > >heart of
 > > > > > > > > the demand "community control". not "work with j&j to
 > solve
 > > > > > > >problems".
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a
 > > >community
 > > > > > > >where people don't have power, and they'll exploit
there.
 > Or
 > > >better
 > > > > > > >yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is your
 > self-
 > > > > > > >determination, then?  That's why you need to have an
 > > >international
 > > > > > > >movement that unites the working class across all
lines.
 > Class
 > > > > > > >alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat imperialism,
 > then
 > > >we can
 > > > > > > >talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we
need
 > > >something
 > > > > > > >concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest of
 > the
 > > > > > > >proletariat.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction by
 > > >fascist
 > > > > > > >terror. the
 > > > > > > > > "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 hayes-
 > tilden
 > > > > > > >scheme.  where
 > > > > > > > > is the 40acres & mule?
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than the
 > > >return of
 > > > > > > >power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the
 > > >southern
 > > > > > > >cracker who is about as modern flint knife.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >Face it.  If the United States government had enforced
 > > >Reconstruction
 > > > > > > >by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the U.S.
 > > >army, that
 > > > > > > >would have afforded them real local control and self-
 > > >determination.
 > > > > > > >Instead they passed it off for the states to decide who
 > could
 > > >have
 > > > > > > >guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you
 > don't
 > > > > > > >institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of
 > federal
 > > >force?
 > > > > > > >What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it
away
 > > >because it
 > > > > > > >does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The
line
 > is
 > > >drawn
 > > > > > > >between the people who produce value, and those to reap
the
 > > >harvest.
 > > > > > > >Not between black or white or geographical location.
 > Progress
 > > > > > > >requires an ideological and political unity of the part
of
 > > >human-kind
 > > > > > > >that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is the
 > > > > > > >proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and
real
 > > >political
 > > > > > > >freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You
 > forget
 > > >about
 > > > > > > >the "religious" differences.  Save religion for history
 > class
 > > >about
 > > > > > > >the middle ages.  Forget about color differences,
because
 > the
 > > >idea
 > > > > > > >that people are different based upon "race" is exactly
the
 > > >idea we
 > > > > > > >want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of the
 > > > > > > >superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being a
 > part
 > > >of
 > > > > > > >the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.
 > > >Because you
 > > > > > > >better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once
 > > >redevelopment
 > > > > > > >and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into
 > enclaves
 > > >in the
 > > > > > > >suburbs.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the
power
 > of
 > > >the
 > > > > > > >bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by
 > > >balkanizing
 > > > > > > >the United States?
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > Black America thoroughly meets the definition of
nation:
 > > >common
 > > > > > > >geographic
 > > > > > > > > area, culture, history, developed economy, as put
 > forward
 > > >first by
 > > > > > > >Joe
 > > > > > > > > Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think
about
 > how
 > > >Joe
 > > > > > > >Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination
for
 > > >Lenin, and
 > > > > > > >how he went and created an imperialist empire of
satellites
 > > >after the
 > > > > > > >war.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > self-determination & reparations for women against
 > > >patriarchy!
 > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > self-determination & reparations for workers against
 > > >capital!
 > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > people vs. imperialism
 > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
 > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
 > > > > > > > > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >So if I want to break off and form a country out of
 > > >Sandford St.
 > > > > > > >down
 > > > > > > > > >here, that's ok?
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-
 > > >determination.  I'm
 > > > > > > > > >not following.
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm
down
 > > >with radical
 > > > > > > > > >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But
 > where do
 > > >you get
 > > > > > > > > >reparations out of this?
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >And show me how rejecting national self-
determination
 > and
 > > > > > > >reparations
 > > > > > > > > >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith"
 > > ><cliffsmith69@h...>
 > > > > > > > > >wrote:
 > > > > > > > > > > self-determination & reparations are basic
 > democratic
 > > >rights and
 > > > > > > > > >the only
 > > > > > > > > > > "concrete" political basis for national equality.
 > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
 > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > scratch a social democrat, find a white
supremacist.
 > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
 > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE
 > > >VERNIERO
 > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
 > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > >Joe,
 > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's
 > Campaign, I
 > > >am not
 > > > > > > > > >convinced
 > > > > > > > > > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  That
 > is, I
 > > >have not
 > > > > > > > > >heard
 > > > > > > > > > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the
only
 > > >arguments I
 > > > > > > >can
 > > > > > > > > > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by
arguments
 > > >against it.
 > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never voted
on
 > a
 > > >statement
 > > > > > > > > >about
 > > > > > > > > > > >reparations or national self-determination.  If
the
 > > >debate came
 > > > > > > > > >up, I
 > > > > > > > > > > >would be against both of those lines.
 > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > >As an advocate of concrete political radicalism,
I
 > > >cannot
 > > > > > > >condone
 > > > > > > > > > > >national self-determination, especially not for
 > > >the "black
 > > > > > > > > >nation."  I
 > > > > > > > > > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign endorsed
 > self-
 > > > > > > >determination
 > > > > > > > > > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated
 > debate
 > > >over the
 > > > > > > > > >issue.
 > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick People's
 > > >Campaign or
 > > > > > > >the
 > > > > > > > > > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.
Since
 > we
 > > >have
 > > > > > > >never had
 > > > > > > > > > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do you
 > think
 > > >it
 > > > > > > >belongs
 > > > > > > > > >in a
 > > > > > > > > > > >press statement on police brutality, something
we
 > are
 > > >against
 > > > > > > >in
 > > > > > > > > >both
 > > > > > > > > > > >theory and practice?
 > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > >Jim
 > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
 > > ><can_bush@h...>
 > > > > > > > > >wrote:
 > > > > > > > > > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the
Black
 > > >Nation!??
 > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE
 > > >VERNIERO
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >                           NEW BRUNSWICK
 > PEOPLE'S
 > > > > > > >CAMPAIGN
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >                           Press Secretary
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >                           P.O. Box 131? New
 > > >Brunswick,
 > > > > > > >NJ 08903
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >? 732/735-1342
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR
 > > >VERNIERO'S
 > > > > > > >OUSTER
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New
 > Brunswick
 > > >People's
 > > > > > > > > > > >Campaign,
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick
 > residents
 > > >and
 > > > > > > >their
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents
 > from all
 > > > > > > > > >nationalities
 > > > > > > > > > > >and
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following
 > > >statement today:
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign (NBPC)
 > > >warmly
 > > > > > > >welcomes
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of the
 > New
 > > >Jersey
 > > > > > > >State
 > > > > > > > > > > >Senate
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme
Court
 > > >Justice
 > > > > > > >Peter
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero.
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >   Any police officer who engages in racial
 > > >profiling and
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of people
of
 > > >color,
 > > > > > > >commits
 > > > > > > > > >a
 > > > > > > > > > > >hate
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed by
 > > >swift and
 > > > > > > >severe
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and their
 > > >superiors who
 > > > > > > > > >turn a
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >   The removal of Justice Verniero would be
 > > >consistent
 > > > > > > >with
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the
Senate
 > > >Judiciary
 > > > > > > > > >Committee
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's
 > > >satisfaction, that
 > > > > > > > > >Justice
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial
 > profiling
 > > >in the
 > > > > > > >state
 > > > > > > > > > > >police
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop this
 > > >hateful
 > > > > > > >practice.
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign
further
 > > >calls
 > > > > > > >upon the
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a
resolution
 > > >calling for
 > > > > > > > > >Justice
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the
bipartisan
 > > >group of
 > > > > > > > > >senators
 > > > > > > > > > > >from
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >   In light of the facts that have, at long
 > last,
 > > >been
 > > > > > > >revealed
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary
 > > >Committee's
 > > > > > > > > >hearings,
 > > > > > > > > > > >the
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >need for community control over police is
now
 > more
 > > >acute
 > > > > > > >than
 > > > > > > > > >ever.
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >NBPC supports community control over police,
 > and
 > > >believes
 > > > > > > >that
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >community control, including democratically
 > elected
 > > > > > > >civilian
 > > > > > > > > >police
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end
to
 > the
 > > >hate
 > > > > > > >crimes
 > > > > > > > > >of
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of people
of
 > > >color.
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >   The minority caucus of the State
 > Legislature is
 > > > > > > >already
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all
 > > >legislators, if
 > > > > > > >they are
 > > > > > > > > > > >good
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >   FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa
 > Coiley -
 > > > > > > >732/514-0610
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >-30-
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > >
 > > >
 >_________________________________________________________________
 > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 > > > > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
 > > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > >
 > > >
 >_________________________________________________________________
 > > > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 > > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > >
 > > >_________________________________________________________________
 > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 > > >http://explorer.msn.com
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > >
 > > >_________________________________________________________________
 > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 > > >http://explorer.msn.com
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 > > > > >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 > > > > >
 > > > >
 > > > >
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 > http://explorer.msn.com
 > > >
 > >
 > > _________________________________________________________________
 > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1467
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 12:07:25
Subject:Regarding "Members Only" Email List and the Nature of the Left Bloc:
Message:


(An Open Letter of Resignation to NJFO)

This action is an abomination of the principles of openness and democracy 
that the Peoples Campaign was founded on.  It is an obvious and transparent 
manuever to EXPEL unwanted people and points of view--some of which I 
disagree with, and some of which I agree with, but all of which have the 
right to be heard in a "united front" formation.  I find it regretable that 
the the NBPC has gone down this road, as it does not set forth a model to 
resolve the ongoing disputes in NB's progressive and revolutionary circles; 
nor does it do anything to move closer to the "LEFT BLOC" that has been 
called for by Amiri Baraka and  "Unity & Struggle"--an effort, an idea, an 
ideology, a line that NJFO used to support, but whose "majority faction" has 
since abandoned in words and in deeds.

I find it all the more regretable, and even painful, that these actions were 
advanced by "majority faction" members of NJFO (what was for a minute 
following the decline of CU's secretive manipulations, a Revolutionary 
Democratic organization united "FOR SOCIALISM & DEMOCRACY" willing to 
struggle together over ideological differences; but has since taken to 
seperate meetings to avoid that struggle.  The irony is that there was and 
is so little clarity over the nature of the disagreements that at times it 
appeared that leadership was less a question of ideology and more a 
popularity contest.

I have said it before and I will repeat it now: While I supported the
expulsion of BOL from the People's Campaign following their dogmatic, public 
attack against Curtis Warren, I have come to see that the expulsion has 
sharpened the antagonisms, and merely repeats the same mistake that BOL made 
in isolating Curtis, a proven working class leader.  With the threat of the 
email group list expulsions, the error in continuing the historic trend of 
expulsions to take the place of clear, scientific, ideological and practical 
struggle among all forces opposed to fascism, and particulary among those 
opposed to imperialism, has become infinitely evident.

The NB Peoples Campaign was intended to be such a formation--a broad united 
front rooted in the working class, but inclusive of all democratic classes. 
With these actions, it has taken a giant leap away from that purpose.  That 
the members of NJFO's "majority faction" have helped lead the "mass 
organization" in this direction is an abandonment of the very principles 
that we in NJFO once stood for.  When this "majority faction" began meeting 
seperately, essentially splitting the organization, I predicted that the 
'whole' could not survive under such conditions.  We agreed, however, that 
the "correctness" of our ideological disagreements (to the extent that 
members were/are clear on those differences) would be determined in time, 
and in practice.  I believe that this is true; however, and regretably, I 
also believe that NJFO has played out its historic role, and cannot be 
revived.  I don't believe that this is "splitting" or separtating on my 
part--as all things must end in order to bring new life and new vitality, I
am ready to give up the shell that NJFO has become in order to grow and find 
a new form.  I will continue the important work of rebuilding the newspaper 
Unity & Struggle, and will seek to find unity with all opposed to 
imperialism in advancing this project--including remaining members of NJFO, 
&/or members of BOL/SWORD.  And I will continue to support the NB Peoples 
Campaign and fight for an open and democratic framework reflective of it's 
still unrealized historic role: a mechanism to bring about a broad LEFT 
BLOC/United Front.

With respect to the good intentions of our progressive friends:

***************Fuck Intellectual Property Rights!!******************

In the Struggle for Unity,

Matthew Smith

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1468
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 12:10:34
Subject:press conference wednesday 3:00pm
Message:

list of new brunswick activities follow: 

1. press conferenc with all participating organizations/community 
members/students. wednesday april18 @3:00pm press is being called to 
feaster park steps which run along throop ave. all persons/
organizations are encouraged to draft up press statements with 
organization position and contact info. conference is to announce new 
brunswick activities and overall raise the atention to march on trenton 
may16 

2. public housing march to defeat racist profiling. sunday april29 
@2:00pm march will gather in parking lot of robeson village and travel 
through the vill and along wright place. march is to promote the 
activists understanding that public housing tenants are constantly 
under the GUN because of the national and economical position, and 
raise the consiousness of public housing tenants to the broader 
democratic rights struggle, as well as promote march on trenton may16 

3. speak out to defeat racist profiling/police brutality. 
tuesday may1 11:00am-1:00pm. 

speak out speakers currently include: 
larry hamm - people's organization for progress 
joseph mosley - vice-chair New Jersey Green Party 
joe smith - committee to defeat racist profiling 
jerusalam - immortal divine family 

speak out location is brower commons, speak out is to raise funds, as 
well as campus consciousness, to support march on trenton may16 

4. all new brunswick march to defeat racist profiling/police brutality. 
saturday may 12 @2:00pm. 

march will gather at the fountain (livingston & george) and will 
combat racist profiling/police brutality that targets all new 
brunswick residents. this all new brunswick march will provide a 
community demand to defeat racist profiling and will raise the 
consiousness of new brunswick peoples' as well as promote march on 
trenton may16 

to promote these activities people are needed. tasks involve fliering 
around areas of activities, getting to press conference, promoting 
activities within personal circles, tabling areas of activities which 
includes signing people up and distributing literature, get involved 
with any other local activities and announce these activities that 
will work to raise the community/campus consciousness and march on 
trenton may16. 

for literature, rides, and additional info either reply to 
coalitionforjustice@egroups.com or contact myself through 
can_bush@... 

joe 








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1469
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 13:00:46
Subject:Fwd: Actualización -------- Update
Message:

I encourage folks to check out the progress of Noe Hernandez- a brilliant 
and rapidly developing Mexican/American artist & personal friend...& look in 
the 'Interviews' section where I was quite surprised to find my coverage of 
Noe published in Unity & Struggle newpaper in 1996...(2 years before the 
'mainstream' press! ;) -Matt

***********************************************************************

Les estoy enviando la actualizaci�n de mi p�gina para que vean lo �ltimo de 
mi trabajo. Tambi�n quiero aprovechar para mandarles un saludo y darles las 
gracias por su amistad y apoyo. Gracias a todos ustedes he alcanzado las 
metas que en un tiempo me propuse.   En estos momentos estoy en una nueva 
etapa de mi trabajo, dando talleres de pintura en la ciudad de Washington.

http://www2.gratisweb.com/xolotl_2000/xolotl.html

Espero escuchar de ustedes cualquier tipo de cr�tica. Si es una cr�tica dura 
mucho mejor.

Gracias por todo.

No�.


I am sending the updated version of my web page for you to see the latest of 
my work.  Also, I want to take this opportunity to greet you and thank you 
for you friendship and support.  Thanks to all of you I have reached the 
goals that I set for myself sometime ago.  Right now, I am in a new stage of 
my career, teaching art (painting) workshops in Washington, D.C.

http://www2.gratisweb.com/xolotl_2000/xolotl.html

I hope to hear any type of feedback or criticism.  The stronger the 
criticism the better.  Thank you for everything.

No�.


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1470
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 17:39:25
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

(speaking for myself and not as campaign GC)

Joe:

I am sorry for the misattribution as to who posted the bigoted Baraka 
poem.  However, I am concerned that you did not join my criticism of 
bigotry.  Do you think Baraka's thoughts as expressed in the poem are 
valid?  Do you think Jim's comments are justified?

As for your point about Frank: he supports an elected resident on the 
housing authority and it was he who introduced a well-written 
resolution to urge compliance with that which will be voted upon at 
the next NBHA meeting.  What's more, he was the only commissioner to 
vote against the monumental mistakes that the NBHA is committing with 
regard to its contracts with TCB.  Whatever I may think of 
Republicans, I do not view Frank's work as the actions of a "theif" 
[sic] or an enemy of public housing residents.

Finally, I have not decided one way or the other on the question of 
the elected school board campaign.  I am interested in hearing your 
views of the question of why it should be run again in 2001, 
specifically addressing it in the context of the 2000 campaign.  
Also, what are your views on whether a referendum for a ward-based 
instead of at-large council should be run in 2001, in addition to or 
instead of the elected school board question.


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> i did not post the poem by baraka, cliff did. but as far as the 
spirit of 
> the campaign, i would like an explaination as to why you are 
not "entirely 
> outraged" that bright is a theif that stole what belongs to the 
people of 
> public housing. why is it that flavio is always buddying up to him, 
rather 
> than being "entirely outraged". who are our friends and who  are 
our 
> enemies? nbpc is more allied with republicans than the tenants of 
public 
> housing. under these relations, the more nbpc works to destabalize 
the 
> democratic machine, the more nbpc will strenghten the republican 
machine.
> 
> i can't relate to your outrage flavio, because you can really care 
less 
> about the people of new brunswick and the activists fighting for 
democratic 
> community control. this will play out when nbpc votes not to work 
on the 
> elected school board campaign april 28.
> 
> joe
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1471
Sender:"Audrey Allred" <audreya99@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-16 04:16:37
Subject:"generation w/out a cause..."
Message:




  Free Film Screening and Discussion on the History
  of Campus Activism @ Rutgers!!!

  Movie: "Generation Without A Cause"
  When: Tuesday, April 17th, 8pm
  Where: Douglass Student Center, Meeting Room C


Synopsis of Film: It is actually an old news clip from the 1950's, with 
Walter Cronkite-and it discusses activism on college campuses. They came to 
Rutgers and interview some fraternity men and Douglass women. They talk 
about the problems they face when it comes to motivation, societal 
standards, peer pressures, etc. The clip also talks about the younger 
generation who got turned off by everything and became labeled as the "beat" 
generation (beatnics and so on).

It's a really interesting comparison to make between what college kids faced 
back then with and what we as activists are faced with now. There are more 
similarities than you would think. Professor Anne Mische from the Sociology 
Department will also be there to help facilitate the discussion.

  ...and its FREE!!!



_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1472
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 13:43:46
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
Message:

baraka's literature, in those instances, deserve criticism. i am under the 
impression that he has received criticism as well as self-criticized about 
those positions against jews. i have seen nothing since i've known him 
supporting those positions.

as for bright: he supports a republican on the board before he
supports a resident. that's the fact. and that makes him a theif, as
the campaign platform is community control, not to mention that he is in 
violation of federal law - something a lawyer should be concerned with.

joe

>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:39:25 -0000
>
>(speaking for myself and not as campaign GC)
>
>Joe:
>
>I am sorry for the misattribution as to who posted the bigoted Baraka
>poem.  However, I am concerned that you did not join my criticism of
>bigotry.  Do you think Baraka's thoughts as expressed in the poem are
>valid?  Do you think Jim's comments are justified?
>
>As for your point about Frank: he supports an elected resident on the
>housing authority and it was he who introduced a well-written
>resolution to urge compliance with that which will be voted upon at
>the next NBHA meeting.  What's more, he was the only commissioner to
>vote against the monumental mistakes that the NBHA is committing with
>regard to its contracts with TCB.  Whatever I may think of
>Republicans, I do not view Frank's work as the actions of a "theif"
>[sic] or an enemy of public housing residents.
>
>Finally, I have not decided one way or the other on the question of
>the elected school board campaign.  I am interested in hearing your
>views of the question of why it should be run again in 2001,
>specifically addressing it in the context of the 2000 campaign.
>Also, what are your views on whether a referendum for a ward-based
>instead of at-large council should be run in 2001, in addition to or
>instead of the elected school board question.
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > i did not post the poem by baraka, cliff did. but as far as the
>spirit of
> > the campaign, i would like an explaination as to why you are
>not "entirely
> > outraged" that bright is a theif that stole what belongs to the
>people of
> > public housing. why is it that flavio is always buddying up to him,
>rather
> > than being "entirely outraged". who are our friends and who  are
>our
> > enemies? nbpc is more allied with republicans than the tenants of
>public
> > housing. under these relations, the more nbpc works to destabalize
>the
> > democratic machine, the more nbpc will strenghten the republican
>machine.
> >
> > i can't relate to your outrage flavio, because you can really care
>less
> > about the people of new brunswick and the activists fighting for
>democratic
> > community control. this will play out when nbpc votes not to work
>on the
> > elected school board campaign april 28.
> >
> > joe
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1473
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 14:03:50
Subject:Press Conference Wednesday Feaster Park
Message:

Committee to Defeat Racist Profiling & Police Brutality 
For Immediate Release 

Contact  Joe Smith 732.729.0390 
can_bush@... 
211 Redmond St. #2 New Brunswick, NJ 

Press Conference to announce list of New Brunswick activities to 
Defeat Racist Profiling: 

Press conference with all participating organizations/community 
members/ RU students. Wednesday April18 @3:00pm press is being called 
to Feaster Park steps which run along Throop Ave. All New Brunswick 
persons & organizations are being encouraged to draft up press 
statements with organization position and contact info. Conference is 
to announce New Brunswick activities and overall raise the attention 
to march on Trenton may16 

1. Public housing March to Defeat Racist Profiling & Police Brutality. 
Sunday April 29 @2:00pm. March will gather in parking lot of Robeson 
Village and travel through the villa and along Wright place. March is 
to promote the activists understanding that public housing tenants 
(especially in light of the Project tenants' situation)are constantly 
under the GUN because of their national and economic position. We must 
work to raise the consciousness of public housing tenants to the 
broader democratic rights struggle, as well as promote March on 
Trenton may16 

2. Speak out to defeat racist profiling/police brutality. 
Tuesday May1 11:00am-1: 00pm. 
Speak out speakers currently include: 
Larry Hamm -People's Organization for Progress 
Joseph Mosley - vice-chair New Jersey Green Party 
Joe Smith - committee to defeat racist profiling 
Jerusalam - immortal divine family 

Location is Brower Commons, speak out is to raise funds, as well as 
Rutgers' Students' consciousness about Racist Profiling & Police 
Brutality, and to support March on Trenton May16 throughout the state 
university. 

3. All New Brunswick March to Defeat Racist Profiling & Police 
Brutality Saturday April12 2:00pm. March will gather at the fountain 
(Livingston & George) and will combat racist profiling & police 
brutality that targets all New Brunswick residents. This all New 
Brunswick March will organize around & promote community demands to 
defeat racist profiling and will raise the consciousness of New 
Brunswick peoples' as well as promote March on Trenton may16 

Organizations already committed to attend events: 

1. Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy 
2. James Dickson CARR Society, Rutgers 
3. NB Peoples' Campaign 
4. NB Coalition Against Police Brutality 
5. Sisterhood & Struggle 
6. NJ Greens Party, Vice Chair 
7. NB Community Arts Mural Project 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1474
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 14:06:24
Subject:VOTE YES - Elected School Board
Message:

to address flavio's question and to open up the discussion...

the school board question is a good discussion. why should it be run '01, 
specifically addressing it in the context of the '00 campaign?

1. the people of new brunswick need and want us to work on winning an 
elected school board. the top result of our 1000 surveys is community 
control over education, so it is our responsiblity to work towards that goal 
given every opportunity. the community will fully embrace our efforts and 
therefor build our organization along the lines of democratic community 
control.

2. working on the elected school board campaign will pull together all
of our forces. differences will be argued out in practice through a united 
fashion. currently differences amongst activists are not moving anything 
forward, and the peoples' struggles are not being embraced properly.

3. in light of the recently released standardized test results new brunswick 
ranks as the worst education system in the county. the only appointed school 
board in the county has the worst education results. that would be big in 
our effort as to expose the appointed board as incompetent, even in the eyes 
of its supporters.

4. there is no other local campaigns, ie. city council or mayor, so our 
campaign along with the governors race would be the only items on the 
ballot. the city will not be out in full force trying to knock our teeth 
down our throats. this has many benifits and no downfalls:
  I. no confusion amongst voters. only two things for us to explain       
one - vote yes elected school board
    two - vote mcgreasy
    the city would have to work real hard to explain vote no, vote        
mcgreasy.
  II. the democratic city machine will not be allowed to fight us as
      we will be working to defeat the republican candidate for
      governor. mcgreasy can't afford to fight on both fronts, his          
campaign must win and in order to win they must put all their
      energy and resources into defeating the republican candidate.
      (nbpc better work with mcgreasy to defeat the republicans)the
      state democratic apparatus might just hand us the elected school
      board to get us to work harder for mcgreasy, they can't afford        
to lose. thus making this a golden opportunity to win the             
campaign, to not run it would be a tremendous error.
  III. next year 2002 will be a mayoral election as well as two city
       council seats, if we win the elected school board this year,
       it would legitamize any candidates we would run for mayor and
       city council. the campaign for the elected school board would
       be the initial step for our campaign for mayor and city
       council. and even if we lose, it is necessary to keep the
       community and organizers focused on electoral campaigns as the
       way to build.
  IV. how would it look in the democratic county seat if the
      democratic city machine defeated our campaign for an elected
      school board, but mcgreasy lost his campaign for governor. i
      will emphasize, they can't allow that to happen!

5. we must organize our base back with the youth and get them back
into organizing in their city. this is an invaluable development of
the campaign. there was nothing better in last year's campaign then
the city's youth involvement. and there is no better way to organize
amongst NB youth then working on a issue that affects them all, their 
schools.

6. nbpc will only have to gather 1400 petition signatures, i will turn in 
the other 1400. it can be done by august at the rate of 88 signatures a week 
beginning in may. that would break down to - worst case - 8 people from nbpc 
get 11 signatures each, and 8 people from SWORD get 11 signatures each a 
week. but these petitions will go must faster as we already have names and 
addresses of those that signed last year, as well as all those we registered 
to vote last year (these
would also be valuble resources to have fresh for next years campaign)

7. if the campaign for an elected school board is run and nbpc does
not work on it....


joe smith

>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:39:25 -0000
>
>(speaking for myself and not as campaign GC)
>
>Joe:
>
>I am sorry for the misattribution as to who posted the bigoted Baraka
>poem.  However, I am concerned that you did not join my criticism of
>bigotry.  Do you think Baraka's thoughts as expressed in the poem are
>valid?  Do you think Jim's comments are justified?
>
>As for your point about Frank: he supports an elected resident on the
>housing authority and it was he who introduced a well-written
>resolution to urge compliance with that which will be voted upon at
>the next NBHA meeting.  What's more, he was the only commissioner to
>vote against the monumental mistakes that the NBHA is committing with
>regard to its contracts with TCB.  Whatever I may think of
>Republicans, I do not view Frank's work as the actions of a "theif"
>[sic] or an enemy of public housing residents.
>
>Finally, I have not decided one way or the other on the question of
>the elected school board campaign.  I am interested in hearing your
>views of the question of why it should be run again in 2001,
>specifically addressing it in the context of the 2000 campaign.
>Also, what are your views on whether a referendum for a ward-based
>instead of at-large council should be run in 2001, in addition to or
>instead of the elected school board question.
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > i did not post the poem by baraka, cliff did. but as far as the
>spirit of
> > the campaign, i would like an explaination as to why you are
>not "entirely
> > outraged" that bright is a theif that stole what belongs to the
>people of
> > public housing. why is it that flavio is always buddying up to him,
>rather
> > than being "entirely outraged". who are our friends and who  are
>our
> > enemies? nbpc is more allied with republicans than the tenants of
>public
> > housing. under these relations, the more nbpc works to destabalize
>the
> > democratic machine, the more nbpc will strenghten the republican
>machine.
> >
> > i can't relate to your outrage flavio, because you can really care
>less
> > about the people of new brunswick and the activists fighting for
>democratic
> > community control. this will play out when nbpc votes not to work
>on the
> > elected school board campaign april 28.
> >
> > joe
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1475
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 15:32:03
Subject:Press release- ordinance regarding tenants
Message:

NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
Press Secretary
P.O. Box 131♦ New Brunswick, NJ 08903 ♦ 732/735-1342



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
CONDEMNS CITY ASSAULT ON TENANT RIGHTS


NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 17, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's Campaign 
today issued the following statement:

	On April 18, 2001, the New Brunswick City Council will 
consider a new ordinance affecting tenants and landlords in the Hub 
City.  This proposal, however, is nothing less than a vicious attack 
on the economic and privacy rights of tenants.  Moreover, the 
excessive legal and administrative burdens placed on landlords under 
the proposal's terms also make it unjust.  For these reasons, the New 
Brunswick People's Campaign opposes the ordinance.

	The most objectionable feature to the ordinance is a 
requirement that a landlord make detailed information about her 
tenants publicly available at least once a year, or whenever there is 
a change in occupancy in the rented premises.  Specifically, the 
landlord is required to disclose the names and sleeping arrangements 
of all tenants in the unit.  The ordinance contains no provisions for 
keeping this information confidential.  These disclosures make public 
the most intimate details of a tenant's family life.  These abhorrent 
provisions smack more of a police state, where government keeps tabs 
on all its citizens, not a freedom-loving country like the United 
States.

	Another provision of the ordinance states that any person who 
has been twice convicted of a noise ordinance violation must be 
evicted and cannot be rented to again in New Brunswick for life.  
This provision is illegal for a number of reasons.  First, the city 
council is attempting to increase the punishment for a petty 
violation from a mere fine to lifetime banishment (at least as a 
tenant) from the City of New Brunswick.  This provision also attempts 
to take the question of tenant evictions, a matter within the 
jurisdiction of the New Jersey Superior Court, and make it a matter 
of a narrow-minded municipal law.  The pre-emption doctrine bars this.

	Yet another section of the ordinance allows law enforcement 
officials from the city's division of inspections to enter and search 
a tenant's dwelling on 48 hours' notice.  The ordinance contains no 
standards for initiating non-periodic inspections and therefore vests 
excessive discretion in inspectors.  More problematic, however, is 
that these searches can be done without a judge's oversight, as would 
be the case if a warrant were required.

	The ordinance is also simultaneously over-inclusive and under-
inclusive in its coverage.  It affects all rental units in New 
Brunswick, even those of three or more units, which are already 
subject to extensive regulation by the State.  We question the need 
for doubling the demands placed on landlords, who will incur 
additional cost and expense with these provisions, possibly passing 
these costs on to tenants.  It is underinclusive, however, in that it 
exempts all public housing units from its coverage.  By excluding 
these units, the city government is saying to public housing tenants 
that the city will offer them no protection from unsafe living 
conditions.

	This proposal promotes an antidemocratic way of life in New 
Brunswick.  Its onerous provisions hurt landlords but they are even 
more of an attack on community members who cannot afford to own, and 
hence, are part of New Brunswick's rental market.  Such community 
members will have to surrender substantial rights if this ordinance 
is passed and as such, NBPC vigorously opposes the ordinance.




	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Flavio Komuves - 732/261-3163 



-30-










-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1476
Sender:citruswar@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 17:12:46
Subject:Re: [nbpc] VOTE YES - Elected School Board
Message:

NICE GOOD POINTS.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1477
Sender:Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 18:42:25
Subject:Re: [nbpc] rain coats
Message:

Did you cop that line from a Bret Shundler ad?

TRACYFORD1420@... wrote:

> FRANK BRIGHT 'S WIDE SUPPORT IS A RESULT OF HIS DEEPLY HELD THAT POWER
> BELONGS IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE AND NOT POLITICIANS. YOU HAVE NOT
> PRESENTED NOT FACTS ,JUST MISINFORMATION
> TRACY FORD
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1478
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 21:24:20
Subject:Re: [nbpc] VOTE YES - Elected School Board
Message:

why run the elected board campaign this year?

mcgreasy lost in '97 by 25,000 votes.  he demands 100% anti-republican 
effort. the entire nj dem machine is lined up to support him.

nb democrats cannot fight the republicans statewide, and simultaneously 
fight the people locally, without jeapordizing mcgreasy's governor campaign.

the national democratic party cannot lose this  nj election. nor can the 
people.

the nb democrats will be nuetralized on a local school board race, as their 
100% focus must be on trenton for mcgreasy & egan.

roosevelt school scored 12.6% passing on '01 proficiency test.

unite, don't split!



>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] VOTE YES - Elected School Board
>Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:06:24 -0400
>
>to address flavio's question and to open up the discussion...
>
>the school board question is a good discussion. why should it be run '01,
>specifically addressing it in the context of the '00 campaign?
>
>1. the people of new brunswick need and want us to work on winning an
>elected school board. the top result of our 1000 surveys is community
>control over education, so it is our responsiblity to work towards that 
>goal
>given every opportunity. the community will fully embrace our efforts and
>therefor build our organization along the lines of democratic community
>control.
>
>2. working on the elected school board campaign will pull together all
>of our forces. differences will be argued out in practice through a united
>fashion. currently differences amongst activists are not moving anything
>forward, and the peoples' struggles are not being embraced properly.
>
>3. in light of the recently released standardized test results new 
>brunswick
>ranks as the worst education system in the county. the only appointed 
>school
>board in the county has the worst education results. that would be big in
>our effort as to expose the appointed board as incompetent, even in the 
>eyes
>of its supporters.
>
>4. there is no other local campaigns, ie. city council or mayor, so our
>campaign along with the governors race would be the only items on the
>ballot. the city will not be out in full force trying to knock our teeth
>down our throats. this has many benifits and no downfalls:
>   I. no confusion amongst voters. only two things for us to explain
>one - vote yes elected school board
>     two - vote mcgreasy
>     the city would have to work real hard to explain vote no, vote
>mcgreasy.
>   II. the democratic city machine will not be allowed to fight us as
>       we will be working to defeat the republican candidate for
>       governor. mcgreasy can't afford to fight on both fronts, his
>campaign must win and in order to win they must put all their
>       energy and resources into defeating the republican candidate.
>       (nbpc better work with mcgreasy to defeat the republicans)the
>       state democratic apparatus might just hand us the elected school
>       board to get us to work harder for mcgreasy, they can't afford
>to lose. thus making this a golden opportunity to win the
>campaign, to not run it would be a tremendous error.
>   III. next year 2002 will be a mayoral election as well as two city
>        council seats, if we win the elected school board this year,
>        it would legitamize any candidates we would run for mayor and
>        city council. the campaign for the elected school board would
>        be the initial step for our campaign for mayor and city
>        council. and even if we lose, it is necessary to keep the
>        community and organizers focused on electoral campaigns as the
>        way to build.
>   IV. how would it look in the democratic county seat if the
>       democratic city machine defeated our campaign for an elected
>       school board, but mcgreasy lost his campaign for governor. i
>       will emphasize, they can't allow that to happen!
>
>5. we must organize our base back with the youth and get them back
>into organizing in their city. this is an invaluable development of
>the campaign. there was nothing better in last year's campaign then
>the city's youth involvement. and there is no better way to organize
>amongst NB youth then working on a issue that affects them all, their
>schools.
>
>6. nbpc will only have to gather 1400 petition signatures, i will turn in
>the other 1400. it can be done by august at the rate of 88 signatures a 
>week
>beginning in may. that would break down to - worst case - 8 people from 
>nbpc
>get 11 signatures each, and 8 people from SWORD get 11 signatures each a
>week. but these petitions will go must faster as we already have names and
>addresses of those that signed last year, as well as all those we 
>registered
>to vote last year (these
>would also be valuble resources to have fresh for next years campaign)
>
>7. if the campaign for an elected school board is run and nbpc does
>not work on it....
>
>
>joe smith
>
> >From: Groovemeister007@...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> >Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:39:25 -0000
> >
> >(speaking for myself and not as campaign GC)
> >
> >Joe:
> >
> >I am sorry for the misattribution as to who posted the bigoted Baraka
> >poem.  However, I am concerned that you did not join my criticism of
> >bigotry.  Do you think Baraka's thoughts as expressed in the poem are
> >valid?  Do you think Jim's comments are justified?
> >
> >As for your point about Frank: he supports an elected resident on the
> >housing authority and it was he who introduced a well-written
> >resolution to urge compliance with that which will be voted upon at
> >the next NBHA meeting.  What's more, he was the only commissioner to
> >vote against the monumental mistakes that the NBHA is committing with
> >regard to its contracts with TCB.  Whatever I may think of
> >Republicans, I do not view Frank's work as the actions of a "theif"
> >[sic] or an enemy of public housing residents.
> >
> >Finally, I have not decided one way or the other on the question of
> >the elected school board campaign.  I am interested in hearing your
> >views of the question of why it should be run again in 2001,
> >specifically addressing it in the context of the 2000 campaign.
> >Also, what are your views on whether a referendum for a ward-based
> >instead of at-large council should be run in 2001, in addition to or
> >instead of the elected school board question.
> >
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > > i did not post the poem by baraka, cliff did. but as far as the
> >spirit of
> > > the campaign, i would like an explaination as to why you are
> >not "entirely
> > > outraged" that bright is a theif that stole what belongs to the
> >people of
> > > public housing. why is it that flavio is always buddying up to him,
> >rather
> > > than being "entirely outraged". who are our friends and who  are
> >our
> > > enemies? nbpc is more allied with republicans than the tenants of
> >public
> > > housing. under these relations, the more nbpc works to destabalize
> >the
> > > democratic machine, the more nbpc will strenghten the republican
> >machine.
> > >
> > > i can't relate to your outrage flavio, because you can really care
> >less
> > > about the people of new brunswick and the activists fighting for
> >democratic
> > > community control. this will play out when nbpc votes not to work
> >on the
> > > elected school board campaign april 28.
> > >
> > > joe
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1479
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 21:27:16
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Press release- ordinance regarding tenants
Message:

well done flavio & peoples campaign.

community control over housing!
rent control!


>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Press release- ordinance regarding tenants
>Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:32:03 -0000
>
>NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
>Press Secretary
>P.O. Box 131? New Brunswick, NJ 08903 ? 732/735-1342
>
>
>
>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>NEW BRUNSWICK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN
>CONDEMNS CITY ASSAULT ON TENANT RIGHTS
>
>
>NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 17, 2001 -- The New Brunswick People's Campaign
>today issued the following statement:
>
>	On April 18, 2001, the New Brunswick City Council will
>consider a new ordinance affecting tenants and landlords in the Hub
>City.  This proposal, however, is nothing less than a vicious attack
>on the economic and privacy rights of tenants.  Moreover, the
>excessive legal and administrative burdens placed on landlords under
>the proposal's terms also make it unjust.  For these reasons, the New
>Brunswick People's Campaign opposes the ordinance.
>
>	The most objectionable feature to the ordinance is a
>requirement that a landlord make detailed information about her
>tenants publicly available at least once a year, or whenever there is
>a change in occupancy in the rented premises.  Specifically, the
>landlord is required to disclose the names and sleeping arrangements
>of all tenants in the unit.  The ordinance contains no provisions for
>keeping this information confidential.  These disclosures make public
>the most intimate details of a tenant's family life.  These abhorrent
>provisions smack more of a police state, where government keeps tabs
>on all its citizens, not a freedom-loving country like the United
>States.
>
>	Another provision of the ordinance states that any person who
>has been twice convicted of a noise ordinance violation must be
>evicted and cannot be rented to again in New Brunswick for life.
>This provision is illegal for a number of reasons.  First, the city
>council is attempting to increase the punishment for a petty
>violation from a mere fine to lifetime banishment (at least as a
>tenant) from the City of New Brunswick.  This provision also attempts
>to take the question of tenant evictions, a matter within the
>jurisdiction of the New Jersey Superior Court, and make it a matter
>of a narrow-minded municipal law.  The pre-emption doctrine bars this.
>
>	Yet another section of the ordinance allows law enforcement
>officials from the city's division of inspections to enter and search
>a tenant's dwelling on 48 hours' notice.  The ordinance contains no
>standards for initiating non-periodic inspections and therefore vests
>excessive discretion in inspectors.  More problematic, however, is
>that these searches can be done without a judge's oversight, as would
>be the case if a warrant were required.
>
>	The ordinance is also simultaneously over-inclusive and under-
>inclusive in its coverage.  It affects all rental units in New
>Brunswick, even those of three or more units, which are already
>subject to extensive regulation by the State.  We question the need
>for doubling the demands placed on landlords, who will incur
>additional cost and expense with these provisions, possibly passing
>these costs on to tenants.  It is underinclusive, however, in that it
>exempts all public housing units from its coverage.  By excluding
>these units, the city government is saying to public housing tenants
>that the city will offer them no protection from unsafe living
>conditions.
>
>	This proposal promotes an antidemocratic way of life in New
>Brunswick.  Its onerous provisions hurt landlords but they are even
>more of an attack on community members who cannot afford to own, and
>hence, are part of New Brunswick's rental market.  Such community
>members will have to surrender substantial rights if this ordinance
>is passed and as such, NBPC vigorously opposes the ordinance.
>
>
>
>
>	FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Flavio Komuves - 732/261-3163
>
>
>
>-30-
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1480
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 21:27:50
Subject:Re: [nbpc] VOTE YES - Elected School Board
Message:

ok curtis. good look.


>From: citruswar@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] VOTE YES - Elected School Board
>Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:12:46 EDT
>
>NICE GOOD POINTS.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1481
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 21:28:33
Subject:Re: [nbpc] rain coats
Message:

ha.


>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] rain coats
>Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:42:25 -0400
>
>Did you cop that line from a Bret Shundler ad?
>
>TRACYFORD1420@... wrote:
>
> > FRANK BRIGHT 'S WIDE SUPPORT IS A RESULT OF HIS DEEPLY HELD THAT POWER
> > BELONGS IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE AND NOT POLITICIANS. YOU HAVE NOT
> > PRESENTED NOT FACTS ,JUST MISINFORMATION
> > TRACY FORD
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1482
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 21:34:07
Subject:*****flash***** sit-in at targum!
Message:

tues. night: 

sit-in at targum office demanding apology for printing white 
supremacist, anti-reparations editorial.

spread word & line up support.

speak-out against racist profiling & police brutality,
 1 may, brower commons, 11am.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1483
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 21:35:59
Subject:Bigoted?
Message:

Bigotry?  That's a tall accusation.

1) I didn't say Christians are weak.  Look again.  I said "or"; 
not "and."  Do you think I'm stupid enough to a) think Christians are 
weak, and/or b) say it on a politically correct mailing list?  
Derrrrr.

2) I do think Christianity is pre-modern, and I do think it's 
adherents are out of touch with reality.  Please read section X of 
David Hume's "Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding."  The part "On 
Miracles."  Probably the only thing he wrote that I agree with.  I'm 
tolerant to an extent, but I'm not going to make believe that a 
certain belief is reasonable when it clearly is *not* reasonable in 
any way shape or form.   

3) This is not the campaign list anymore.  If you must criticize me, 
do so.  But don't criticize me for not representing the campaign or 
saying something that the campaign "is not about."    

4) To Matt Smith -- "nationalist" poetry?  Call it what it is.  
RACIST.

5) To all -- I'm not racist or bigoted.  I wholeheartedly apologize 
for my message, because it was confusing.  I was just making a point 
that you have to argue for an opinion.  None of us should be in the 
habit of accepting premises based upon faith alone.  I for one have 
not been convinced of the argument for reparations.  Come to think of 
it, neither have most black people or members of the working class, 
evidentally.  I wonder how Cliff, Joe, and co. deal with them.  Maybe 
the working class are Klan Imperialists too, because they disagree 
with BOL on this issue.  Maybe everyone besides Cliff and Joe are 
Klan Imperialists as a matter of fact.  Maybe like Spanish 
Conquistadors, they believe it is their mission to smite the heathen 
world in the name of the the Father (Marx), the Son (Lenin), and the 
Holy Ghost (Stalin -- author of a tract on National Self-
Determination, Ironically the man who made the USSR an imperial 
power).

6) To Cliff -- Why it gotta be "Narrow Jim Low-ceno"?  Why not Slim 
Jim?  That's funnier, because, heh, I'm actually kinda slim.  And, 
like, my name is Jim too!! :D  Or how about SS-OBERFUHRER JIM LUCENO, 
DIVISION OF RACE AND RESETTLEMENT?  You know, you really hold back 
too much with your polemics.  You should allow yourself some 
catharsis.  Let some of that anger out.  You're so darn reserved!  

Jim

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> Friends:
> 
> Bigotry of all kinds is morally and legally wrong and is against 
the 
> basic spirit of unity in the Campaign.  In that vein, I am entirely 
> outraged that in the past week, both Jim Luceno and Joe Smith have 
> chosen to express bigoted views on this board.  Specifically,
> 
> Jim: "Christians and other forms of life [are] entirely weak, 
> pre-modern, or out of touch with reality."  (message 1454) 
> 
> Joe (quoting a poem from A. Baraka):  "We want poems 
> like fists beating niggers out of Jocks 
> or dagger poems in the slimy bellies 
> of the owner-jews.  ....  Another bad poem cracking 
> steel knuckles in a jewlady's mouth."  (message 1381).
> 
> 
> Religious bigotry is not what this Campaign is about.  Gentlemen, 
> please explain yourselves!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., jmluceno@e... wrote:
> > Did someone replace the hemispheres of your brain with two German 
> > Shepherds?  This is not an esoteric point.  
> > 
> > "I don't ally myself with facts.  SELF-DETERMINATION!!!!"
> > 
> > MAKE A FRIGGIN ARGUMENT.  Your responses amount to, "No, you're 
> > wrong. Fuck you."  This is why I have given up on these useless 
> back-
> > and-forths.  You have yet to write one argument against what I am 
> > saying.  Yes, I know you support the black nation.  Yes, I know 
you 
> > believe in reparations.  Yes I know you believe in self-
> > determination.  
> > 
> > Am I to understand you hold these opinions on faith alone?  Who 
> told 
> > you this stuff anyway?  You got these ideas from somewhere.
> > 
> > Look: Faith is for Christians and other forms of life entirely 
> weak, 
> > pre-modern, or out of touch with reality.  Please convince me of 
> your 
> > view.  I would like to be part of your hip herd, really.  But not 
> > before I hear a convincing argument.  
> > 
> > Let's start:  Why do African-Americans constitute a *nation*?
> > 
> > Until you give me a convincing argument, and as long as you 
respond 
> > my saying I have the line of the "klan," then I will be forced to 
> > label you separatist, secessionist, even sectarian.  You have the 
> > line of Idi Amin.
> > 
> > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> 
> > wrote:
> > > "What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have 
to
> > > >slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because 
> slavery
> > > >was abolished".
> > > 
> > > "And I stress once again -- the extent to which a nation 
> emphasizes
> > > >its uniqueness as a people based upon an innate sense of 
> belonging 
> > to
> > > >a culture that makes it different from "western ideas" or, even
> > > >better, "white ideas", is the extent to which is supports
> > > >totalitarianism."  --jim luceno
> > > 
> > > keith, care to ally yrself with this?
> > > call me "ultraleft" but i stand with the oppressed black 
nation, 
> > and all 
> > > oppressed nations against imperialism & imperialist apologies.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > "On the other list you were just saying that you would help 
kick 
> my 
> > ass if I 
> > > made this argument on the street outside my house"  j-low
> > > 
> > >                  ^^^this is a lie.^^^
> > > 
> > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > >Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 21:20:11 -0000
> > > >
> > > >Joe --
> > > >
> > > >I think slaves should be repaid for slavery, but as far as I 
can
> > > >tell, the last of the slaves died over a 100 years ago.
> > > >
> > > >What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have 
to
> > > >slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because 
> slavery
> > > >was abolished.
> > > >
> > > >What African-Americans do have an immediate connection with is 
> > racism
> > > >and capitalism.  They aren't impoverished because of slavery.  
> > That's
> > > >absurd.  They're impoverished because of racism.
> > > >
> > > >What are you going to do about racism?  You're going to throw 
> money
> > > >at it.  Great.  Are you *really* that cynical?  All black 
people 
> > care
> > > >about is getting cash for slavery?
> > > >
> > > >You're being vague vague vague about this question of self-
> > > >determination.  What are the boundaries that form the black 
> nation?
> > > >What is the geographical location that they have an ancestral
> > > >connection to?  What do you mean by "community control"?  
You're
> > > >going to fight off capitalism by roping off the inner cities?  
> What
> > > >does the inner city produce that anybody needs?
> > > >
> > > >Gee wiz, welcome to Dialectics 101.  You cannot isolate a 
> > phenomenon
> > > >from the totality, or else it becomes one-sided.  One-
sidedeness 
> is
> > > >exactly what the call for self-determation of the black nation 
> is.
> > > >
> > > >Revolution requires that the proletariat have an awareness of 
the
> > > >*totality* of the system of capitalist production.  It does 
not 
> > mean
> > > >having an awareness of PARTICULAR cultural or ancestral 
heritage.
> > > >And I stress once again -- the extent to which a nation 
> emphasizes
> > > >its uniqueness as a people based upon an innate sense of 
> belonging 
> > to
> > > >a culture that makes it different from "western ideas" or, even
> > > >better, "white ideas", is the extent to which is supports
> > > >totalitarianism.  If you're going to prove it to me otherwise, 
> > you're
> > > >not going to prove it on the basis of history.  History backs 
me 
> > up.
> > > >It abandons you.
> > > >
> > > >There is an implicit idea in Marx that we move toward a 
UNIVERSAL
> > > >conception of culture.  Do you recognize it?  On the other 
list 
> you
> > > >were just saying that you would help kick my ass if I made this
> > > >argument on the street outside my house, so I somehow doubt 
you 
> > do...
> > > >
> > > >Jim
> > > >
> > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> 
> > wrote:
> > > > > jim, do you agree that slaves should be repaid for slavery? 
> do 
> > you
> > > >think
> > > > > workers should be repaid for exploitation? do you think 
> > students of
> > > > > segregation should be repaid for education?
> > > > >
> > > > > when you first posted that there are some arguements that 
you 
> > can
> > > >agree
> > > > > with, but they can be beat by arguements countering it. (it 
> > being
> > > > > reperations and self-determination) can you explain the 
> > arguements
> > > >that you
> > > > > support without bringing up the better counters? i want to
> > > >underrstand what
> > > > > you think.
> > > > >
> > > > > joe
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...>
> > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > > >Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1980 22:37:00 -0500
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I thought that this was a good discussion. I advocate Self 
D 
> > and
> > > > > >Repartaions and Jim
> > > > > >and I have debated it in the past. The discussion was 
> actaully
> > > >moving
> > > > > >forward, and
> > > > > >many times Jim made the case for Self-D without even 
meaning 
> > to.
> > > >For
> > > > > >insatnce when he
> > > > > >says that the overthrow of reconstruction resulted in "pre-
> > modern
> > > >classes"
> > > > > >taking
> > > > > >control of the Soutrh. That is the point, the relationship 
of
> > > > > >Afro-Americans to the US
> > > > > >is not even at the level that should be achieved in 
> democratic
> > > >anti-feudal
> > > > > >revolutions. Self-D addresses that very point.
> > > > > >However, to say that Jim's analysis is the same as the 
Klan 
> is 
> > an
> > > > > >ultra-left error and
> > > > > >a un- informed remark. First of all,  most people are 
against
> > > >reparations
> > > > > >that's why
> > > > > >we have to struggle for it; otherwise we would already 
have 
> > it. To
> > > >say that
> > > > > >Jim's
> > > > > >analysis is the same as the Klan (even though you did not 
> call 
> > him
> > > >a Klans
> > > > > >man) is
> > > > > >counter-revolutionary because it disorganizes the people 
> rather
> > > >than
> > > > > >organize them.
> > > > > >Instead of drawing revolutionary intellectuals and workers 
> > closer
> > > >togther
> > > > > >towards
> > > > > >unity around a common platform it pushes them away towards
> > > >disunity.
> > > > > >I would take it as an extreme insult if someone were to 
say 
> I 
> > had
> > > >a line
> > > > > >analgous to
> > > > > >the Klan given that I identify as a revolutionary, why 
would 
> > you
> > > >expect Jim
> > > > > >to do
> > > > > >otherwise? How does saying he has a line like the Klan 
> educate 
> > him
> > > >or
> > > > > >change his mind
> > > > > >or even just contribute meaningfully to the debate?
> > > > > >This is one particular example of an ultra-left trend of 
> which 
> > the
> > > >attack
> > > > > >on Curtis is
> > > > > >but another example. This line is sectarian because it 
> creates 
> > an
> > > >enemy
> > > > > >where there
> > > > > >was/should/could be an ally.   The defeat of this ultra-
left 
> > line
> > > >and its
> > > > > >rectification along Marxist-Leninist lines will be a geat 
> force
> > > >towards
> > > > > >uniting
> > > > > >revolutionarys in New Brunswick and in New Jersey and will 
> go a
> > > >long way in
> > > > > >  defeating
> > > > > >the local Social-Democrat liberal missionary line that 
> > dominates
> > > >NJFO and
> > > > > >the People's
> > > > > >Campaign. If you can not maintain even an alliance with 
> people
> > > >like Jim and
> > > > > >Curtis (to
> > > > > >name but two examples) the movemnt will not grow, no one 
> will 
> > be
> > > >organized
> > > > > >and we will
> > > > > >have 5  organizations for four  people. Discussion is a 
good
> > > >vehicle to
> > > > > >bring
> > > > > >ideological clarity and unity but if discussion is just an 
> > excuse
> > > >to force
> > > > > >people to
> > > > > >accept your line with verbal abuse it becomes a servant of
> > > >imperialsim.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >cliff smith wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > the theft of national "value" is incidental to the 
> > destruction
> > > >of
> > > > > >national
> > > > > > > "soveriegnty"?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > stealing something from you is disconnected from 
denying 
> > your
> > > >right to
> > > > > >it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > imperialism (or any social relation) cannot be 
understood 
> > only
> > > > > >economically,
> > > > > > > & not also necessarily politically.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > the u.s. cannot control arab oil without 1st toppling 
> > national
> > > > > >governments.
> > > > > > > else why eliminate allende?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > it is a white supremacist position to deny the national
> > > >oppression of
> > > > > >Black
> > > > > > > America.  j&j steals from everyone equally?  nb 
> > Blacks/Latinos
> > > >are not
> > > > > > > super-exploited/oppressed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > what is racial profiling? a class question only? was 
> diallo
> > > >obliterated
> > > > > >for
> > > > > > > being poor only? how to explaing the lynching of james 
> byrd 
> > by
> > > >poor
> > > > > >whites?
> > > > > > > any lynching? the denial of democratic rights, 
education, 
> > jobs?
> > > >the
> > > > > >vast,
> > > > > > > utter impoverishment of the Black Belt (geographic 
Nation)
> > > >south?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > u.s. imperialism does not merely steal labor power from 
> > Afro-
> > > >America,
> > > > > >but
> > > > > > > most definitely robs its national "value".  impedes its
> > > >economic,
> > > > > >political,
> > > > > > > & cultural development.  what is the relationship of 
benny
> > > >goodman to
> > > > > >jazz,
> > > > > > > of eminem to hiphop, of the nba to allen iverson?  who 
> > profit$
> > > >from
> > > > > >these
> > > > > > > Black national markets?  sony?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > if yr serious in understanding these relations, start 
with
> > > >dubois "black
> > > > > > > reconstruction" & baraka's "black nation" or listen to 
> some
> > > >charles
> > > > > >mingus.
> > > > > > > yr analysis now is that of the klan.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > > > > >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:13:28 -0000
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of 
national 
> > self-
> > > > > > > >determination &
> > > > > > > > > the theft of national resources.  your
> > > >celebrated "modernism" is
> > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real 
> value
> > > >from one
> > > > > > > >country and its transportation into another.  Loss of 
> > national
> > > > > > > >sovereignty is incidental to it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations 
in 
> > the
> > > >U.S. and
> > > > > > > >the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book 
> and 
> > Huey
> > > > > > > >Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say 
that 
> if
> > > >you like,
> > > > > > > >but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and
> > > >industrialization has
> > > > > > > >long-since left the cities for the most part.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are 
> > stealing
> > > >national
> > > > > > > >resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor 
power.
> > > >I'll agree
> > > > > > > >to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a 
> class
> > > >question,
> > > > > > > >not a race question.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > you have no national relation to sanford st.  
however
> > > >democracy
> > > > > > > >means those
> > > > > > > > > oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st 
& 
> > the
> > > >US urban
> > > > > > > >centers,
> > > > > > > > > and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne 
Nations 
> > have
> > > >the
> > > > > > > >right to
> > > > > > > > > politically & economically control those areas in 
> which
> > > >they are
> > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > plurality. to determine their relationship to the 
US, 
> > which
> > > >they
> > > > > > > >have never
> > > > > > > > > done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of 
all 
> > Black
> > > >peoples
> > > > > > > >in US.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Alright.  So you're talking about political control at 
> the
> > > >grassroots
> > > > > > > >level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of
> > > >*race*?  Why?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Do you extend this right to all local groups that 
> identify
> > > >themselves
> > > > > > > >as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your 
> > brother's
> > > >word)
> > > > > > > >out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom 
> > want to
> > > >form
> > > > > > > >their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.
> > > >Should they
> > > > > > > >be allowed to?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of 
local
> > > >government
> > > > > > > >(returning rights to the states, to municipalities, 
what 
> > have
> > > >you)
> > > > > > > >has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say 
> what
> > > >you will
> > > > > > > >about the United States federal government, but at 
least 
> > they
> > > > > > > >enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More 
> than
> > > >what the
> > > > > > > >state governments would have done.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >For that matter, why do you want to divide the working 
> > class
> > > >along
> > > > > > > >race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain 
> people 
> > are
> > > >unique
> > > > > > > >based strictly upon their connection to some kind of 
> > cultural
> > > > > > > >heritage or land, something that that *outsiders* 
cannot
> > > >understand,
> > > > > > > >sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity 
> > garbage
> > > >is what
> > > > > > > >every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi 
Amin 
> > spouts
> > > >before
> > > > > > > >sending people to the camps.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?  
> > Let's
> > > >be real.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > you should develop a community consciousness at 
> sanford 
> > st
> > > >& demand
> > > > > > > > > community self-determination against j&j 
dictatorship,
> > > >which is the
> > > > > > > >heart of
> > > > > > > > > the demand "community control". not "work with j&j 
to 
> > solve
> > > > > > > >problems".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a
> > > >community
> > > > > > > >where people don't have power, and they'll exploit 
> there.  
> > Or
> > > >better
> > > > > > > >yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is 
your 
> > self-
> > > > > > > >determination, then?  That's why you need to have an
> > > >international
> > > > > > > >movement that unites the working class across all 
> lines.  
> > Class
> > > > > > > >alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat 
imperialism, 
> > then
> > > >we can
> > > > > > > >talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we 
> need
> > > >something
> > > > > > > >concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest 
of 
> > the
> > > > > > > >proletariat.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction 
by
> > > >fascist
> > > > > > > >terror. the
> > > > > > > > > "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876 
hayes-
> > tilden
> > > > > > > >scheme.  where
> > > > > > > > > is the 40acres & mule?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than 
the
> > > >return of
> > > > > > > >power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the
> > > >southern
> > > > > > > >cracker who is about as modern flint knife.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Face it.  If the United States government had enforced
> > > >Reconstruction
> > > > > > > >by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the 
U.S.
> > > >army, that
> > > > > > > >would have afforded them real local control and self-
> > > >determination.
> > > > > > > >Instead they passed it off for the states to decide 
who 
> > could
> > > >have
> > > > > > > >guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you 
> > don't
> > > > > > > >institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of 
> > federal
> > > >force?
> > > > > > > >What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it 
> away
> > > >because it
> > > > > > > >does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The 
> line 
> > is
> > > >drawn
> > > > > > > >between the people who produce value, and those to 
reap 
> the
> > > >harvest.
> > > > > > > >Not between black or white or geographical location.  
> > Progress
> > > > > > > >requires an ideological and political unity of the 
part 
> of
> > > >human-kind
> > > > > > > >that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is 
the
> > > > > > > >proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and 
> real
> > > >political
> > > > > > > >freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You 
> > forget
> > > >about
> > > > > > > >the "religious" differences.  Save religion for 
history 
> > class
> > > >about
> > > > > > > >the middle ages.  Forget about color differences, 
> because 
> > the
> > > >idea
> > > > > > > >that people are different based upon "race" is exactly 
> the
> > > >idea we
> > > > > > > >want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of 
the
> > > > > > > >superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being 
a 
> > part
> > > >of
> > > > > > > >the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.
> > > >Because you
> > > > > > > >better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once
> > > >redevelopment
> > > > > > > >and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into 
> > enclaves
> > > >in the
> > > > > > > >suburbs.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the 
> power 
> > of
> > > >the
> > > > > > > >bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by
> > > >balkanizing
> > > > > > > >the United States?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Black America thoroughly meets the definition of 
> nation:
> > > >common
> > > > > > > >geographic
> > > > > > > > > area, culture, history, developed economy, as put 
> > forward
> > > >first by
> > > > > > > >Joe
> > > > > > > > > Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think 
> about 
> > how
> > > >Joe
> > > > > > > >Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination 
> for
> > > >Lenin, and
> > > > > > > >how he went and created an imperialist empire of 
> satellites
> > > >after the
> > > > > > > >war.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > self-determination & reparations for women against
> > > >patriarchy!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > self-determination & reparations for workers against
> > > >capital!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > people vs. imperialism
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > > > > > > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >So if I want to break off and form a country out of
> > > >Sandford St.
> > > > > > > >down
> > > > > > > > > >here, that's ok?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-
> > > >determination.  I'm
> > > > > > > > > >not following.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm 
> down
> > > >with radical
> > > > > > > > > >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But 
> > where do
> > > >you get
> > > > > > > > > >reparations out of this?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >And show me how rejecting national self-
> determination 
> > and
> > > > > > > >reparations
> > > > > > > > > >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith"
> > > ><cliffsmith69@h...>
> > > > > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > self-determination & reparations are basic 
> > democratic
> > > >rights and
> > > > > > > > > >the only
> > > > > > > > > > > "concrete" political basis for national 
equality.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > scratch a social democrat, find a white 
> supremacist.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE
> > > >VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >Joe,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's 
> > Campaign, I
> > > >am not
> > > > > > > > > >convinced
> > > > > > > > > > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.  
That 
> > is, I
> > > >have not
> > > > > > > > > >heard
> > > > > > > > > > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the 
> only
> > > >arguments I
> > > > > > > >can
> > > > > > > > > > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by 
> arguments
> > > >against it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never 
voted 
> on 
> > a
> > > >statement
> > > > > > > > > >about
> > > > > > > > > > > >reparations or national self-determination.  
If 
> the
> > > >debate came
> > > > > > > > > >up, I
> > > > > > > > > > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >As an advocate of concrete political 
radicalism, 
> I
> > > >cannot
> > > > > > > >condone
> > > > > > > > > > > >national self-determination, especially not for
> > > >the "black
> > > > > > > > > >nation."  I
> > > > > > > > > > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign 
endorsed 
> > self-
> > > > > > > >determination
> > > > > > > > > > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated 
> > debate
> > > >over the
> > > > > > > > > >issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick 
People's
> > > >Campaign or
> > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.  
> Since 
> > we
> > > >have
> > > > > > > >never had
> > > > > > > > > > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do 
you 
> > think
> > > >it
> > > > > > > >belongs
> > > > > > > > > >in a
> > > > > > > > > > > >press statement on police brutality, something 
> we 
> > are
> > > >against
> > > > > > > >in
> > > > > > > > > >both
> > > > > > > > > > > >theory and practice?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >Jim
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
> > > ><can_bush@h...>
> > > > > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the 
> Black
> > > >Nation!??
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE
> > > >VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >                           NEW BRUNSWICK 
> > PEOPLE'S
> > > > > > > >CAMPAIGN
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >                           Press Secretary
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >                           P.O. Box 131? 
New
> > > >Brunswick,
> > > > > > > >NJ 08903
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR
> > > >VERNIERO'S
> > > > > > > >OUSTER
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New 
> > Brunswick
> > > >People's
> > > > > > > > > > > >Campaign,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick 
> > residents
> > > >and
> > > > > > > >their
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents 
> > from all
> > > > > > > > > >nationalities
> > > > > > > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following
> > > >statement today:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign 
(NBPC)
> > > >warmly
> > > > > > > >welcomes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of 
the 
> > New
> > > >Jersey
> > > > > > > >State
> > > > > > > > > > > >Senate
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme 
> Court
> > > >Justice
> > > > > > > >Peter
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >   Any police officer who engages in racial
> > > >profiling and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of 
people 
> of
> > > >color,
> > > > > > > >commits
> > > > > > > > > >a
> > > > > > > > > > > >hate
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed 
by
> > > >swift and
> > > > > > > >severe
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and 
their
> > > >superiors who
> > > > > > > > > >turn a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >   The removal of Justice Verniero would be
> > > >consistent
> > > > > > > >with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the 
> Senate
> > > >Judiciary
> > > > > > > > > >Committee
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's
> > > >satisfaction, that
> > > > > > > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial 
> > profiling
> > > >in the
> > > > > > > >state
> > > > > > > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop 
this
> > > >hateful
> > > > > > > >practice.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign 
> further
> > > >calls
> > > > > > > >upon the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a 
> resolution
> > > >calling for
> > > > > > > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the 
> bipartisan
> > > >group of
> > > > > > > > > >senators
> > > > > > > > > > > >from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >   In light of the facts that have, at 
long 
> > last,
> > > >been
> > > > > > > >revealed
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary
> > > >Committee's
> > > > > > > > > >hearings,
> > > > > > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >need for community control over police is 
> now 
> > more
> > > >acute
> > > > > > > >than
> > > > > > > > > >ever.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >NBPC supports community control over 
police, 
> > and
> > > >believes
> > > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >community control, including 
democratically 
> > elected
> > > > > > > >civilian
> > > > > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end 
> to 
> > the
> > > >hate
> > > > > > > >crimes
> > > > > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of 
people 
> of
> > > >color.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >   The minority caucus of the State 
> > Legislature is
> > > > > > > >already
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all
> > > >legislators, if
> > > > > > > >they are
> > > > > > > > > > > >good
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >   FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa 
> > Coiley -
> > > > > > > >732/514-0610
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >-30-
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > 
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > 
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > 
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > 
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > > > > >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
> > http://explorer.msn.com
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1484
Sender:"Charlotte L. Kates" <ckates@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 23:26:27
Subject:Student Government Opposes City Council Rent Proposal
Message:

To whom it may concern:

The Douglass College Government Association passed this resolution opposing
the New Brunswick City Council's proposed rent ordinance at its meeting of
Tuesday, April 17. DCGA is taking a stand against the ordinance, which will
be voted on at Wednesday night's city council meeting, because it is highly
invasive and intrusive upon privacy rights and contains onerous restrictions
on renting in relation to noise violations. This proposed legislation is
dangerous to tenants' rights and students' ability to live in their city.
For more information on the resolution and DCGA's stand against the
ordinance, I may be contacted at 373-7853, or ckates@....

Sincerely,
Charlotte L. Kates
Class of 2002 Representative, DCGA

RESOLUTION IN OPPOSITION TO PROPOSED CITY COUNCIL RENT ORDINANCE

DC-00-01-24

Whereas, the New Brunswick City Council will consider on Wednesday, April 18
a proposed ordinance concerning rental agreements in the City of New
Brunswick, and

Whereas, numerous Douglass College students live in off-campus housing, most
frequently through rental agreements with landlords, and

Whereas, the Douglass College Government Association (DCGA) represents those
Douglass students living in off-campus housing, and

Whereas, the proposed ordinance would require landlords to divulge the names
and occupancy arrangements of all tenants of their property every time
occupancy changes, upon the signing of a new lease agreement, or at least
once per year, and

Whereas, this information would be publicly available and no provisions are
contained in the ordinance for privacy protection of the intimate details of
renters' living arrangements, and

Whereas, tenants who violate occupancy restrictions would be required to be
evicted within 30 days, and

Whereas, the ordinance would also require that any tenant more than twice
convicted of a noise ordinance violation must be evicted and never again
allowed to rent
in the City of New Brunswick, and

Whereas, the student governing associations have been working to address
issues in the City of New Brunswick over the past year, and

Whereas, these issues are of major concern to the thousands of renters in
the City of New Brunswick, including numerous Douglass College Students;

Therefore, be it resolved, that the DCGA stands in opposition to this
proposed ordinance, as it is an egregious violation of the privacy rights
and needs of New Brunswick renters, including many students, and

Be it further resolved, that the DCGA avows that renters should not be
required to make publicly available sensitive information relating to their
place of residence and living circumstances merely because they are tenants
and not property owners, and

Be it further resolved, that the DCGA condemns any such ordinance which
places undue burden on students and others who cannot afford to purchase
property, and

Be it further resolved, that the DCGA notes with concern that students are
often subject to police surveillance and noise citations and therefore
stands in opposition to the section of the proposed ordinance which would
turn a misdemeanor offense into a lifetime sentence of banishment from the
City of New Brunswick, and

Be it finally resolved, that the DCGA upholds the right of tenants to
privacy in their own homes and to freedom from onerous noise ordinance
penalties, is firmly opposed to any ordinance of the City Council which
would deny renters the rights and privileges due them, and calls on the City
Council to defeat this proposed ordinance in its meeting of Wednesday, April
18.

Respectfully Submitted,
Charlotte L. Kates
Class of 2002 Representative

CC: Resolution List
New Brunswick City Council
Star-Ledger
Home News Tribune








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1485
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 23:51:35
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Bigoted?
Message:



>From: jmluceno@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Bigoted?
>Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 01:35:59 -0000
>
>Bigotry?  That's a tall accusation.
>
>1) I didn't say Christians are weak.  Look again.  I said "or";
>not "and."  Do you think I'm stupid enough to a) think Christians are
>weak, and/or b) say it on a politically correct mailing list?
>Derrrrr.
>
>2) I do think Christianity is pre-modern, and I do think it's
>adherents are out of touch with reality.  Please read section X of
>David Hume's "Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding."  The part "On
>Miracles."  Probably the only thing he wrote that I agree with.  I'm
>tolerant to an extent, but I'm not going to make believe that a
>certain belief is reasonable when it clearly is *not* reasonable in
>any way shape or form.
>
>3) This is not the campaign list anymore.  If you must criticize me,
>do so.  But don't criticize me for not representing the campaign or
>saying something that the campaign "is not about."
>
>4) To Matt Smith -- "nationalist" poetry?  Call it what it is.
>RACIST.
>
>5) To all -- I'm not racist or bigoted.  I wholeheartedly apologize
>for my message, because it was confusing.  I was just making a point
>that you have to argue for an opinion.  None of us should be in the
>habit of accepting premises based upon faith alone.  I for one have
>not been convinced of the argument for reparations.  Come to think of
>it, neither have most black people or members of the working class,
>evidentally.  I wonder how Cliff, Joe, and co. deal with them.  Maybe
>the working class are Klan Imperialists too, because they disagree
>with BOL on this issue.  Maybe everyone besides Cliff and Joe are
>Klan Imperialists as a matter of fact.  Maybe like Spanish
>Conquistadors, they believe it is their mission to smite the heathen
>world in the name of the the Father (Marx), the Son (Lenin), and the
>Holy Ghost (Stalin -- author of a tract on National Self-
>Determination, Ironically the man who made the USSR an imperial
>power).
>
>6) To Cliff -- Why it gotta be "Narrow Jim Low-ceno"?  Why not Slim
>Jim?  That's funnier, because, heh, I'm actually kinda slim.  And,
>like, my name is Jim too!! :D  Or how about SS-OBERFUHRER JIM LUCENO,
>DIVISION OF RACE AND RESETTLEMENT?  You know, you really hold back
>too much with your polemics.  You should allow yourself some
>catharsis.  Let some of that anger out.  You're so darn reserved!
>
>Jim
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> > Friends:
> >
> > Bigotry of all kinds is morally and legally wrong and is against
>the
> > basic spirit of unity in the Campaign.  In that vein, I am entirely
> > outraged that in the past week, both Jim Luceno and Joe Smith have
> > chosen to express bigoted views on this board.  Specifically,
> >
> > Jim: "Christians and other forms of life [are] entirely weak,
> > pre-modern, or out of touch with reality."  (message 1454)
> >
> > Joe (quoting a poem from A. Baraka):  "We want poems
> > like fists beating niggers out of Jocks
> > or dagger poems in the slimy bellies
> > of the owner-jews.  ....  Another bad poem cracking
> > steel knuckles in a jewlady's mouth."  (message 1381).
> >
> >
> > Religious bigotry is not what this Campaign is about.  Gentlemen,
> > please explain yourselves!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., jmluceno@e... wrote:
> > > Did someone replace the hemispheres of your brain with two German
> > > Shepherds?  This is not an esoteric point.
> > >
> > > "I don't ally myself with facts.  SELF-DETERMINATION!!!!"
> > >
> > > MAKE A FRIGGIN ARGUMENT.  Your responses amount to, "No, you're
> > > wrong. Fuck you."  This is why I have given up on these useless
> > back-
> > > and-forths.  You have yet to write one argument against what I am
> > > saying.  Yes, I know you support the black nation.  Yes, I know
>you
> > > believe in reparations.  Yes I know you believe in self-
> > > determination.
> > >
> > > Am I to understand you hold these opinions on faith alone?  Who
> > told
> > > you this stuff anyway?  You got these ideas from somewhere.
> > >
> > > Look: Faith is for Christians and other forms of life entirely
> > weak,
> > > pre-modern, or out of touch with reality.  Please convince me of
> > your
> > > view.  I would like to be part of your hip herd, really.  But not
> > > before I hear a convincing argument.
> > >
> > > Let's start:  Why do African-Americans constitute a *nation*?
> > >
> > > Until you give me a convincing argument, and as long as you
>respond
> > > my saying I have the line of the "klan," then I will be forced to
> > > label you separatist, secessionist, even sectarian.  You have the
> > > line of Idi Amin.
> > >
> > > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > "What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have
>to
> > > > >slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because
> > slavery
> > > > >was abolished".
> > > >
> > > > "And I stress once again -- the extent to which a nation
> > emphasizes
> > > > >its uniqueness as a people based upon an innate sense of
> > belonging
> > > to
> > > > >a culture that makes it different from "western ideas" or, even
> > > > >better, "white ideas", is the extent to which is supports
> > > > >totalitarianism."  --jim luceno
> > > >
> > > > keith, care to ally yrself with this?
> > > > call me "ultraleft" but i stand with the oppressed black
>nation,
> > > and all
> > > > oppressed nations against imperialism & imperialist apologies.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "On the other list you were just saying that you would help
>kick
> > my
> > > ass if I
> > > > made this argument on the street outside my house"  j-low
> > > >
> > > >                  ^^^this is a lie.^^^
> > > >
> > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > >Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 21:20:11 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >Joe --
> > > > >
> > > > >I think slaves should be repaid for slavery, but as far as I
>can
> > > > >tell, the last of the slaves died over a 100 years ago.
> > > > >
> > > > >What is the *immediate* connection that African Americans have
>to
> > > > >slavery?  None.  There is no immediate connection, because
> > slavery
> > > > >was abolished.
> > > > >
> > > > >What African-Americans do have an immediate connection with is
> > > racism
> > > > >and capitalism.  They aren't impoverished because of slavery.
> > > That's
> > > > >absurd.  They're impoverished because of racism.
> > > > >
> > > > >What are you going to do about racism?  You're going to throw
> > money
> > > > >at it.  Great.  Are you *really* that cynical?  All black
>people
> > > care
> > > > >about is getting cash for slavery?
> > > > >
> > > > >You're being vague vague vague about this question of self-
> > > > >determination.  What are the boundaries that form the black
> > nation?
> > > > >What is the geographical location that they have an ancestral
> > > > >connection to?  What do you mean by "community control"?
>You're
> > > > >going to fight off capitalism by roping off the inner cities?
> > What
> > > > >does the inner city produce that anybody needs?
> > > > >
> > > > >Gee wiz, welcome to Dialectics 101.  You cannot isolate a
> > > phenomenon
> > > > >from the totality, or else it becomes one-sided.  One-
>sidedeness
> > is
> > > > >exactly what the call for self-determation of the black nation
> > is.
> > > > >
> > > > >Revolution requires that the proletariat have an awareness of
>the
> > > > >*totality* of the system of capitalist production.  It does
>not
> > > mean
> > > > >having an awareness of PARTICULAR cultural or ancestral
>heritage.
> > > > >And I stress once again -- the extent to which a nation
> > emphasizes
> > > > >its uniqueness as a people based upon an innate sense of
> > belonging
> > > to
> > > > >a culture that makes it different from "western ideas" or, even
> > > > >better, "white ideas", is the extent to which is supports
> > > > >totalitarianism.  If you're going to prove it to me otherwise,
> > > you're
> > > > >not going to prove it on the basis of history.  History backs
>me
> > > up.
> > > > >It abandons you.
> > > > >
> > > > >There is an implicit idea in Marx that we move toward a
>UNIVERSAL
> > > > >conception of culture.  Do you recognize it?  On the other
>list
> > you
> > > > >were just saying that you would help kick my ass if I made this
> > > > >argument on the street outside my house, so I somehow doubt
>you
> > > do...
> > > > >
> > > > >Jim
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > jim, do you agree that slaves should be repaid for slavery?
> > do
> > > you
> > > > >think
> > > > > > workers should be repaid for exploitation? do you think
> > > students of
> > > > > > segregation should be repaid for education?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > when you first posted that there are some arguements that
>you
> > > can
> > > > >agree
> > > > > > with, but they can be beat by arguements countering it. (it
> > > being
> > > > > > reperations and self-determination) can you explain the
> > > arguements
> > > > >that you
> > > > > > support without bringing up the better counters? i want to
> > > > >underrstand what
> > > > > > you think.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > joe
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > > > >Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1980 22:37:00 -0500
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I thought that this was a good discussion. I advocate Self
>D
> > > and
> > > > > > >Repartaions and Jim
> > > > > > >and I have debated it in the past. The discussion was
> > actaully
> > > > >moving
> > > > > > >forward, and
> > > > > > >many times Jim made the case for Self-D without even
>meaning
> > > to.
> > > > >For
> > > > > > >insatnce when he
> > > > > > >says that the overthrow of reconstruction resulted in "pre-
> > > modern
> > > > >classes"
> > > > > > >taking
> > > > > > >control of the Soutrh. That is the point, the relationship
>of
> > > > > > >Afro-Americans to the US
> > > > > > >is not even at the level that should be achieved in
> > democratic
> > > > >anti-feudal
> > > > > > >revolutions. Self-D addresses that very point.
> > > > > > >However, to say that Jim's analysis is the same as the
>Klan
> > is
> > > an
> > > > > > >ultra-left error and
> > > > > > >a un- informed remark. First of all,  most people are
>against
> > > > >reparations
> > > > > > >that's why
> > > > > > >we have to struggle for it; otherwise we would already
>have
> > > it. To
> > > > >say that
> > > > > > >Jim's
> > > > > > >analysis is the same as the Klan (even though you did not
> > call
> > > him
> > > > >a Klans
> > > > > > >man) is
> > > > > > >counter-revolutionary because it disorganizes the people
> > rather
> > > > >than
> > > > > > >organize them.
> > > > > > >Instead of drawing revolutionary intellectuals and workers
> > > closer
> > > > >togther
> > > > > > >towards
> > > > > > >unity around a common platform it pushes them away towards
> > > > >disunity.
> > > > > > >I would take it as an extreme insult if someone were to
>say
> > I
> > > had
> > > > >a line
> > > > > > >analgous to
> > > > > > >the Klan given that I identify as a revolutionary, why
>would
> > > you
> > > > >expect Jim
> > > > > > >to do
> > > > > > >otherwise? How does saying he has a line like the Klan
> > educate
> > > him
> > > > >or
> > > > > > >change his mind
> > > > > > >or even just contribute meaningfully to the debate?
> > > > > > >This is one particular example of an ultra-left trend of
> > which
> > > the
> > > > >attack
> > > > > > >on Curtis is
> > > > > > >but another example. This line is sectarian because it
> > creates
> > > an
> > > > >enemy
> > > > > > >where there
> > > > > > >was/should/could be an ally.   The defeat of this ultra-
>left
> > > line
> > > > >and its
> > > > > > >rectification along Marxist-Leninist lines will be a geat
> > force
> > > > >towards
> > > > > > >uniting
> > > > > > >revolutionarys in New Brunswick and in New Jersey and will
> > go a
> > > > >long way in
> > > > > > >  defeating
> > > > > > >the local Social-Democrat liberal missionary line that
> > > dominates
> > > > >NJFO and
> > > > > > >the People's
> > > > > > >Campaign. If you can not maintain even an alliance with
> > people
> > > > >like Jim and
> > > > > > >Curtis (to
> > > > > > >name but two examples) the movemnt will not grow, no one
> > will
> > > be
> > > > >organized
> > > > > > >and we will
> > > > > > >have 5  organizations for four  people. Discussion is a
>good
> > > > >vehicle to
> > > > > > >bring
> > > > > > >ideological clarity and unity but if discussion is just an
> > > excuse
> > > > >to force
> > > > > > >people to
> > > > > > >accept your line with verbal abuse it becomes a servant of
> > > > >imperialsim.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >cliff smith wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > the theft of national "value" is incidental to the
> > > destruction
> > > > >of
> > > > > > >national
> > > > > > > > "soveriegnty"?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > stealing something from you is disconnected from
>denying
> > > your
> > > > >right to
> > > > > > >it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > imperialism (or any social relation) cannot be
>understood
> > > only
> > > > > > >economically,
> > > > > > > > & not also necessarily politically.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > the u.s. cannot control arab oil without 1st toppling
> > > national
> > > > > > >governments.
> > > > > > > > else why eliminate allende?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > it is a white supremacist position to deny the national
> > > > >oppression of
> > > > > > >Black
> > > > > > > > America.  j&j steals from everyone equally?  nb
> > > Blacks/Latinos
> > > > >are not
> > > > > > > > super-exploited/oppressed?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > what is racial profiling? a class question only? was
> > diallo
> > > > >obliterated
> > > > > > >for
> > > > > > > > being poor only? how to explaing the lynching of james
> > byrd
> > > by
> > > > >poor
> > > > > > >whites?
> > > > > > > > any lynching? the denial of democratic rights,
>education,
> > > jobs?
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >vast,
> > > > > > > > utter impoverishment of the Black Belt (geographic
>Nation)
> > > > >south?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > u.s. imperialism does not merely steal labor power from
> > > Afro-
> > > > >America,
> > > > > > >but
> > > > > > > > most definitely robs its national "value".  impedes its
> > > > >economic,
> > > > > > >political,
> > > > > > > > & cultural development.  what is the relationship of
>benny
> > > > >goodman to
> > > > > > >jazz,
> > > > > > > > of eminem to hiphop, of the nba to allen iverson?  who
> > > profit$
> > > > >from
> > > > > > >these
> > > > > > > > Black national markets?  sony?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > if yr serious in understanding these relations, start
>with
> > > > >dubois "black
> > > > > > > > reconstruction" & baraka's "black nation" or listen to
> > some
> > > > >charles
> > > > > > >mingus.
> > > > > > > > yr analysis now is that of the klan.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > > > > > >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:13:28 -0000
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > the basis of imperialism is the rejection of
>national
> > > self-
> > > > > > > > >determination &
> > > > > > > > > > the theft of national resources.  your
> > > > >celebrated "modernism" is
> > > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > ideology of Trooper Profiling.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >No.  The basis of imperialism is the removal of real
> > value
> > > > >from one
> > > > > > > > >country and its transportation into another.  Loss of
> > > national
> > > > > > > > >sovereignty is incidental to it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I wouldn't call the relationship between corporations
>in
> > > the
> > > > >U.S. and
> > > > > > > > >the black ghettos "imperialist."  I read Fanon's book
> > and
> > > Huey
> > > > > > > > >Newton's interpretation of it.  I mean, you can say
>that
> > if
> > > > >you like,
> > > > > > > > >but it's not very meaningful.  Manufacture and
> > > > >industrialization has
> > > > > > > > >long-since left the cities for the most part.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >What do you want to say?  Corporations like J&J are
> > > stealing
> > > > >national
> > > > > > > > >resources from blacks?  Fine, say J&J steals labor
>power.
> > > > >I'll agree
> > > > > > > > >to that.  But they don't just do it blacks.  That's a
> > class
> > > > >question,
> > > > > > > > >not a race question.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > you have no national relation to sanford st.
>however
> > > > >democracy
> > > > > > > > >means those
> > > > > > > > > > oppressed nationalities ghetto-ized into sanford st
>&
> > > the
> > > > >US urban
> > > > > > > > >centers,
> > > > > > > > > > and Black Belt South & Chicano SW & Akwasasne
>Nations
> > > have
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >right to
> > > > > > > > > > politically & economically control those areas in
> > which
> > > > >they are
> > > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > plurality. to determine their relationship to the
>US,
> > > which
> > > > >they
> > > > > > > > >have never
> > > > > > > > > > done. thru, at minimum, a national plebiscite of
>all
> > > Black
> > > > >peoples
> > > > > > > > >in US.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Alright.  So you're talking about political control at
> > the
> > > > >grassroots
> > > > > > > > >level.  I can agree with that too.  But on the basis of
> > > > >*race*?  Why?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Do you extend this right to all local groups that
> > identify
> > > > >themselves
> > > > > > > > >as a "nation"?  Let's say the dingbats (to use your
> > > brother's
> > > > >word)
> > > > > > > > >out in Kansas who voted to have Jesus in the classroom
> > > want to
> > > > >form
> > > > > > > > >their own nation out there and do hell only knows what.
> > > > >Should they
> > > > > > > > >be allowed to?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Historically speaking, the move toward that kind of
>local
> > > > >government
> > > > > > > > >(returning rights to the states, to municipalities,
>what
> > > have
> > > > >you)
> > > > > > > > >has always been more regressive than progressive.  Say
> > what
> > > > >you will
> > > > > > > > >about the United States federal government, but at
>least
> > > they
> > > > > > > > >enforced desegregation in schools in the south.  More
> > than
> > > > >what the
> > > > > > > > >state governments would have done.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >For that matter, why do you want to divide the working
> > > class
> > > > >along
> > > > > > > > >race and "cultural" lines.  The idea that a certain
> > people
> > > are
> > > > >unique
> > > > > > > > >based strictly upon their connection to some kind of
> > > cultural
> > > > > > > > >heritage or land, something that that *outsiders*
>cannot
> > > > >understand,
> > > > > > > > >sounds a lot of like fascism.  The cultural identity
> > > garbage
> > > > >is what
> > > > > > > > >every totalitarian dictator from Mussollini to Idi
>Amin
> > > spouts
> > > > >before
> > > > > > > > >sending people to the camps.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Look.  Are you a Marxist, or are you a communitarian?
> > > Let's
> > > > >be real.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > you should develop a community consciousness at
> > sanford
> > > st
> > > > >& demand
> > > > > > > > > > community self-determination against j&j
>dictatorship,
> > > > >which is the
> > > > > > > > >heart of
> > > > > > > > > > the demand "community control". not "work with j&j
>to
> > > solve
> > > > > > > > >problems".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >J&J will just go somewhere else, then.  They'll go to a
> > > > >community
> > > > > > > > >where people don't have power, and they'll exploit
> > there.
> > > Or
> > > > >better
> > > > > > > > >yet, they'll just leave the country.  What good is
>your
> > > self-
> > > > > > > > >determination, then?  That's why you need to have an
> > > > >international
> > > > > > > > >movement that unites the working class across all
> > lines.
> > > Class
> > > > > > > > >alignment has to be first.  Once we defeat
>imperialism,
> > > then
> > > > >we can
> > > > > > > > >talk about all the nice culture stuff.  Until then, we
> > need
> > > > >something
> > > > > > > > >concrete to unite on, and that is the mutual interest
>of
> > > the
> > > > > > > > >proletariat.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > you must recognize the overthrow of Reconstruction
>by
> > > > >fascist
> > > > > > > > >terror. the
> > > > > > > > > > "modernist" industrialist sell-out of the 1876
>hayes-
> > > tilden
> > > > > > > > >scheme.  where
> > > > > > > > > > is the 40acres & mule?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Yep.  Overthrow of reconstruction was none other than
>the
> > > > >return of
> > > > > > > > >power to the states.  Putting power in the hands of the
> > > > >southern
> > > > > > > > >cracker who is about as modern flint knife.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Face it.  If the United States government had enforced
> > > > >Reconstruction
> > > > > > > > >by allowing the slaves to be armed and backed by the
>U.S.
> > > > >army, that
> > > > > > > > >would have afforded them real local control and self-
> > > > >determination.
> > > > > > > > >Instead they passed it off for the states to decide
>who
> > > could
> > > > >have
> > > > > > > > >guns, who could run for state legislature, etc.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >How the hell are you going to enforce democracy if you
> > > don't
> > > > > > > > >institutionalize it and back it up with some kind of
> > > federal
> > > > >force?
> > > > > > > > >What good is freedom if people can decide to throw it
> > away
> > > > >because it
> > > > > > > > >does not blend well with their "cultural" conception?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Screw that.  We have to move forward, not back.  The
> > line
> > > is
> > > > >drawn
> > > > > > > > >between the people who produce value, and those to
>reap
> > the
> > > > >harvest.
> > > > > > > > >Not between black or white or geographical location.
> > > Progress
> > > > > > > > >requires an ideological and political unity of the
>part
> > of
> > > > >human-kind
> > > > > > > > >that embodies the potential for freedom, and that is
>the
> > > > > > > > >proletariat.  Period.  If you want real democracy and
> > real
> > > > >political
> > > > > > > > >freedom, concretely, that's how you go about it.  You
> > > forget
> > > > >about
> > > > > > > > >the "religious" differences.  Save religion for
>history
> > > class
> > > > >about
> > > > > > > > >the middle ages.  Forget about color differences,
> > because
> > > the
> > > > >idea
> > > > > > > > >that people are different based upon "race" is exactly
> > the
> > > > >idea we
> > > > > > > > >want to get rid of.  It is, as you would say, part of
>the
> > > > > > > > >superstructure.  And forget about the feeling of being
>a
> > > part
> > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >the "land", like you're a German peasant or something.
> > > > >Because you
> > > > > > > > >better have a way of uniting the "black nation" once
> > > > >redevelopment
> > > > > > > > >and revitalization pushes them out of the cities into
> > > enclaves
> > > > >in the
> > > > > > > > >suburbs.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >We have to find more reasons to unite and attack the
> > power
> > > of
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >bourgeoisie together.  How do you propose to do that by
> > > > >balkanizing
> > > > > > > > >the United States?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Black America thoroughly meets the definition of
> > nation:
> > > > >common
> > > > > > > > >geographic
> > > > > > > > > > area, culture, history, developed economy, as put
> > > forward
> > > > >first by
> > > > > > > > >Joe
> > > > > > > > > > Stalin, the great defender of oppressed nations.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Oh irony.  You know, it always kills me when I think
> > about
> > > how
> > > > >Joe
> > > > > > > > >Stalin wrote that paper on national self-determination
> > for
> > > > >Lenin, and
> > > > > > > > >how he went and created an imperialist empire of
> > satellites
> > > > >after the
> > > > > > > > >war.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > self-determination & reparations for women against
> > > > >patriarchy!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > self-determination & reparations for workers against
> > > > >capital!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > people vs. imperialism
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
> > > > > > > > > > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:26:57 -0000
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Self-determination is a basic democratic right?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >So if I want to break off and form a country out of
> > > > >Sandford St.
> > > > > > > > >down
> > > > > > > > > > >here, that's ok?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Make it more clear to me what you mean by self-
> > > > >determination.  I'm
> > > > > > > > > > >not following.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >I'm down with basic democratic rights.  Hell, I'm
> > down
> > > > >with radical
> > > > > > > > > > >democratic rights, nevermind the basic ones.  But
> > > where do
> > > > >you get
> > > > > > > > > > >reparations out of this?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >And show me how rejecting national self-
> > determination
> > > and
> > > > > > > > >reparations
> > > > > > > > > > >makes me an advocate of imperialist politics.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith"
> > > > ><cliffsmith69@h...>
> > > > > > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > self-determination & reparations are basic
> > > democratic
> > > > >rights and
> > > > > > > > > > >the only
> > > > > > > > > > > > "concrete" political basis for national
>equality.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > to oppose this is to join imperialist politics.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > scratch a social democrat, find a white
> > supremacist.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE
> > > > >VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:42:53 -0000
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Joe,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >As a member of the New Brunswick People's
> > > Campaign, I
> > > > >am not
> > > > > > > > > > >convinced
> > > > > > > > > > > > >of the benefit of reparations for slavery.
>That
> > > is, I
> > > > >have not
> > > > > > > > > > >heard
> > > > > > > > > > > > >a convincing argument in favor of it, and the
> > only
> > > > >arguments I
> > > > > > > > >can
> > > > > > > > > > > > >think of in favor of it can be beaten by
> > arguments
> > > > >against it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >The New Brunswick People's Campaign never
>voted
> > on
> > > a
> > > > >statement
> > > > > > > > > > >about
> > > > > > > > > > > > >reparations or national self-determination.
>If
> > the
> > > > >debate came
> > > > > > > > > > >up, I
> > > > > > > > > > > > >would be against both of those lines.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >As an advocate of concrete political
>radicalism,
> > I
> > > > >cannot
> > > > > > > > >condone
> > > > > > > > > > > > >national self-determination, especially not for
> > > > >the "black
> > > > > > > > > > >nation."  I
> > > > > > > > > > > > >reject this thesis, and if the Campaign
>endorsed
> > > self-
> > > > > > > > >determination
> > > > > > > > > > > > >for the black nation, I would engage in heated
> > > debate
> > > > >over the
> > > > > > > > > > >issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >In no case do I expect the New Brunswick
>People's
> > > > >Campaign or
> > > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > > > >members in it to share all of my opinions.
> > Since
> > > we
> > > > >have
> > > > > > > > >never had
> > > > > > > > > > > > >the discussion in any public meeting, why do
>you
> > > think
> > > > >it
> > > > > > > > >belongs
> > > > > > > > > > >in a
> > > > > > > > > > > > >press statement on police brutality, something
> > we
> > > are
> > > > >against
> > > > > > > > >in
> > > > > > > > > > >both
> > > > > > > > > > > > >theory and practice?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Jim
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
> > > > ><can_bush@h...>
> > > > > > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reperation and Self-Determination for the
> > Black
> > > > >Nation!??
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] NBPC'S STATEMENT ON JUSTICE
> > > > >VERNIERO
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:36 -0000
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >                           NEW BRUNSWICK
> > > PEOPLE'S
> > > > > > > > >CAMPAIGN
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >                           Press Secretary
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >                           P.O. Box 131?
>New
> > > > >Brunswick,
> > > > > > > > >NJ 08903
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? 732/735-1342
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK CITIZEN GROUP JOINS CALLS FOR
> > > > >VERNIERO'S
> > > > > > > > >OUSTER
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >NEW BRUNSWICK,  April 5, 2001 -- The New
> > > Brunswick
> > > > >People's
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Campaign,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >a broad-based coalition of New Brunswick
> > > residents
> > > > >and
> > > > > > > > >their
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >supporters, which includes local residents
> > > from all
> > > > > > > > > > >nationalities
> > > > > > > > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >socioeconomic groups, issued the following
> > > > >statement today:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign
>(NBPC)
> > > > >warmly
> > > > > > > > >welcomes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >the news that the Judiciary Committee of
>the
> > > New
> > > > >Jersey
> > > > > > > > >State
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Senate
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >is calling for the resignation of Supreme
> > Court
> > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > >Peter
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   Any police officer who engages in racial
> > > > >profiling and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >brutality against and mistreatment of
>people
> > of
> > > > >color,
> > > > > > > > >commits
> > > > > > > > > > >a
> > > > > > > > > > > > >hate
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >crime.  Such hate crimes must be addressed
>by
> > > > >swift and
> > > > > > > > >severe
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >punishment of those who commit them and
>their
> > > > >superiors who
> > > > > > > > > > >turn a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >blind eye to such acts.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   The removal of Justice Verniero would be
> > > > >consistent
> > > > > > > > >with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >those principles.  Testimony before the
> > Senate
> > > > >Judiciary
> > > > > > > > > > >Committee
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >has amply demonstrated, to the NBPC's
> > > > >satisfaction, that
> > > > > > > > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero had actual knowledge of racial
> > > profiling
> > > > >in the
> > > > > > > > >state
> > > > > > > > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and that he failed to take steps to stop
>this
> > > > >hateful
> > > > > > > > >practice.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   The New Brunswick People's Campaign
> > further
> > > > >calls
> > > > > > > > >upon the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >New Brunswick City Council to pass a
> > resolution
> > > > >calling for
> > > > > > > > > > >Justice
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Verniero's resignation, just as the
> > bipartisan
> > > > >group of
> > > > > > > > > > >senators
> > > > > > > > > > > > >from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >the Senate Judiciary Committee have done.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   In light of the facts that have, at
>long
> > > last,
> > > > >been
> > > > > > > > >revealed
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to the public through the Senate Judiciary
> > > > >Committee's
> > > > > > > > > > >hearings,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >need for community control over police is
> > now
> > > more
> > > > >acute
> > > > > > > > >than
> > > > > > > > > > >ever.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >NBPC supports community control over
>police,
> > > and
> > > > >believes
> > > > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >community control, including
>democratically
> > > elected
> > > > > > > > >civilian
> > > > > > > > > > >police
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >review boards, will help bring a swift end
> > to
> > > the
> > > > >hate
> > > > > > > > >crimes
> > > > > > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >racial profiling and mistreatment of
>people
> > of
> > > > >color.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   The minority caucus of the State
> > > Legislature is
> > > > > > > > >already
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >advancing such proposals.  We urge all
> > > > >legislators, if
> > > > > > > > >they are
> > > > > > > > > > > > >good
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >conscience, to support these efforts.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: Alyssa
> > > Coiley -
> > > > > > > > >732/514-0610
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-30-
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > > > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > > > > > >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
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>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1486
Sender:"Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-18 00:31:04
Subject:Re:
Message:

Platform Committee Recommendations to the CFJ  re upcoming Sat Meeting
4-21-2001

We have at least 2 main responsibilities:
A. Build the case for the 9 Demands as they have been stated publicly and
discussed in the media. By build is meant detail of rationale, specifics of
structure, and defining more exactly what we mean -- all of this so that the
CFJ `negotiating' team has as much pertinent information as possible to make
the case for each demand.
B. Where possible for the May 16th March/Protest, restate our 9 Demands and
expand them without losing the essential demands'  focus -- for example
including Cliff's stated Point 1 as part of Demand 4; Cliff's point 2 as an
element under Demand 2 and Demand 3 for pursuit by the Independent
Prosecutor as we expand the definition of `racial' profiling to mean any
kind of prejudicial profiling.

Expanding on our committee responsibilities, please give me your thoughts on
the following:

A. Demand 1 -- Are we in agreement with the structure and powers of the
proposed independent civilian-controlled police control board? You have the
essentials in the packet I gave out Sat 4-14-01. If you want the entire
beast let me know and I'll email the 30+ pages to you. Cliff, your
recommendation for residency requirements is a good one which we should ask
the CFJ to push as we push for the CCPCB -- and it doesn't have to wait on
the CCPCB struggle. Perhaps it fits logically under Demand 8  -- Hiring of
more minority officers; also your other part of comment 3 falls within the
essentials of the CCPCB proposal.
A. Demand 2 -- Independent Prosecutor -- To be either popularly elected
ASAP, or selected by lottery from four candidates selected one each from the
ACLU-NJ, NAACP-NJ, NJ Bar Assn, and the Urban League. These are highly
respected, national type organizations (every state has their own bar
association --- perhaps we need a state-wide Hispanic-representing
organization to offer a candidate prosecutor?
A. Demand 3 -- Legislation re racial profiling to be expanded to prejudicial
profiling as I defined in one of Sat's handouts. If you want to improve the
definition of prejudicial profiling let me know. The basic idea is that no
one should be treated unfairly for any reason or nonreason. Justification
for detrimental treatment must be obvious.
A. Demand 4 -- Reopening of police brutality cases -- we need to raise the
question to the CFJ if we mean the ca. 30 people who have been KILLED by
police in NJ during the past 10 years under `suspicious' circumstances -
about 27 cases of which are briefly documented in the book `Stolen Lives.'
How about the perhaps hundreds of cases of police brutality that did not
result in death of the victim? Do we demand that all of these cases be
reopened --- and reopened by the Indep Prosecutor?
I say YES! If you agree, someone will need to survey the NJ populace and
really interview/document those who have been PHYSICALLY injured, as
starters. Those who have been insulted via prejudicial profiling is another
massive endeavor. Do we recommend this to the CFJ for longer term followup?
A, Demand 5 -- Verniero et al we've covered. For the first round of Demands
I recommend that we include Poritz and Whitman. The Independent Prosecutor
should be pressed to pursue the entire StatePolice chain-of-command involved
in this highway racial profiling [civil rights + violations]. Longer term,
pursue this same issue in local police agencies.
A. Demand 6 -- Hogan and Kenna . This is clear and specific
A. Demand 7 -- Racial bias and BRUTALITY history/tendency testing. Was
candidate a high school bully; does the candidate have a history of
torturing or killing animals, abusing others?
A. Demand 8 and 9 -- Hiring and promoting of more minority officers. We need
to demand objective standards for promotion set by an `outside' auditing
board that will provide continuing oversight of the processes of hiring and
promotion evaluation.
If the standards and implementation are fair, the selection process should
be based simply on merit. As with medical personnel, we want the best for
these life-and-death decisions selected on the basis of competence. Lemme
know if you disagree.

B. Longer term -- Items 4 (direct elections), 5 (reparations), 7 and 8 of
Cliff's notes need to be presented to the CFJ for consideration and
prioritization assuming the CFJ will expand its social-economic-political
thrust.Each of these pusuits will call for dynamic committees and liason
with existing organizations. Item 6 in Cliff's notes I personally still
can't agree with -- it's too broad brush for me especially since I don't
know if there are decent Republicans in the legislature like Gormley
perhaps. I suggest we attack the issues and support those who we as
individuals feel are worthy of our vote -- as an organization we should not
endorse or oppose a party. Let's educate the populace objectively and
PASSIONATELY and have faith that they'll vote for justice. I fully support a
presentation by Cliff or anyone to the CFJ of differing views.

In addition, we need to add to our list of possible suggestions to the CFJ
for After-May 16 consideration --

-- Death Penalty moratorium and elimination
-- Essential health and civil rights for prisoners, including review of NJ
prison labor procedures, parole for non-violent prisoners, job training and
employment assistance for parolees -- and all indigent so that they do not
have to go to prison to obtain necessary education and employment
assistance.
-- A Freedom of Information Act worthy of the name. This would help prevent
a lot of corrupt practices. Belive it or not, Florida has a highly reputed
FOIA. We could readily get guidance from the ACLU and the existing NJ bill
on this subject.
-- Welfare -- the Clinton Welfare DEFORM Act of 1996 is wreaking havoc among
much of the chronically poor. Infant mortality, INFANTICIDE BY GOVERNMENT
EDICT AND NEGLECT, has risen. The crunch will become even more severe in the
next 2 years as the 5 year lifetime limit on welfare occurs for many poor
families. What then for these folks? Particularly given the economic
downturn which will mean reduced welfare possibilities for the neediest.
What's our plan to protect the present and soon to be helpless?
-- Living Wage not Minimum Wage -- You'll see info on this in the packet I
gave at last Sat's meeting.

Who wants to speak to the CFJ group on what subjects? I believe I can handle
Demands 1 and 2 -- CCPCB and Independent Prosecutor and perhaps anything
else that no one else picks. Please feel free to add comments AFTER the
presenter's comments.Summarize your recommendations and rationales for CFJ
action. We may be lucky to get 5 minutes per subject. At this point we want
to elicit comments and ideas in addition to our own, and come back on the
April 28 with a better consensus set of short and long term positions and
plans.

Let us all know what you all think, ASAP. Think or Sink!

Blessings.
Howard


----- Original Message -----
From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
To: <njfo@egroups.com>
Cc: <senormart@...>; <nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>;
<howardnelson@...>; <jeanross55@...>;
<sisterhoodNstruggle1@...>; <tamaradahan@...>;
<nita_08901@...>; <breakingchains@...>;
<sherryRT@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 7:19 PM


> Date:  Sun Apr 15, 2001 7:09pm
>                  Subject:  platform committee discussion
>                            coalition for justice
>                            march on trenton, may 16
>
>                  the meeting of the platform committee, sunday 1pm, new
> brunswick, centered around developing and expanding the scope of the March
> platform  , its program and demands, in order to strengthen our base,
build
> broader unity, reflect developments in the campaign, and better address
the
> issues within their national & historic context.
>
>                  our general agreements were that a "broad, not narrow"
> vision would better organize our different communities toward the
necessary
> elimination of police abuses, rather than merely replacing this or that
> figurehead.
>
>                  further, that we need to address our issues in how they
> exist in political reality, and finally, on what happens to our developing
> movement beyond the march.
>
>                  1. the call for verniero's immediate removal must be
> expanded to demand the sworn-in investigation of former gov. whitman,
former
> ag poritz, and  the entire hierarchy of the state police.  these people
all
> were involved in the policy of profiling & abuse, and its cover-up.
>
>                  2. the issue of police abuses of women must be prominent
in
> our program.  this is a well-documented trend in nj, but has been
> conspicuously absent from any outcry.  we point to repeated instances of
> sexual harrassment/assault in police stops, police involvement in
> prostitution/sex-slavery, police violence toward their domestic partners,
> and harrassment/abuse of female police including female troopers.
>
>                  3. the "review board w/ subpoena & disciplinary powers"
is
> better named an elected, civilian, police-control board.  the point is, do
> the police control the community, or does the community control the
police?
> only by placing the police under direct control of the community (not
merely
> review!), will abuses be eliminated.
>
>                  further, there must be residency requirements and open
> files on all police officers.
>
>                  4. the question of community control and democracy also
> must include the direct election (& immediate recall) of all state
officials
> with positions of authority.  including judges, prosecutors, & police
> chiefs.  if we could vote verniero out, we wouldn't be caught in a
> republican legislative obstacle course.
>
>                  5. we must understand, and state openly, that police
abuses
> are a result of social inequalities.  that no amount of reform within the
> police will eliminate abuses if general social inequality continues.  that
> is, e.g., street crime is a product of poverty & oppression.  until these
> conditions are eliminated, police will always "profile" "criminals", while
> claiming to protect & serve.
>
>                     we must put forward the democratic calls for
reparations
> and self-determination for all oppressed peoples.  in this way to
eliminate
> social inequality, and with it, social abuses.  one
> practical example would be free education for all blacks,  latinos,
> and women in new jersey.
>
>                  6. that our program must openly target the republican
party
> as the most dangerous, most aggressive advocate of profiling & police
abuse.
> these actions are most openly encouraged by republican party operatives
and
> policies.  whitman got promoted after(!) being exposed in profiling
> "pat-down" (or was that her initiation?).  we must defeat defransesco in
> november and all republicans!
>
>                  7. that francis lawrence, president of the state
university
> (rutgers) must be removed for classifying black people as "genetically
> inferior".  this anti-scientific, backward claim, by the head of the
state's
> highest, public, educational institution provided ideological support, a
> lynch-mentality, for any racist thug cop.
>
>                  8. that after the march we must meet immediately to
assess
> our successes & failures, criticize our errors, and learn lessons to build
> on.  we should seek to unite our forces with all progressive forces in nj
> toward building a broad, democratic, peoples' united front to fight all
> social problems toward building a peoples' democratic workers' party.
>
>                     And finally, that we should plan to hold a
> conference/summit in the fall, before the election, to develop and advance
> our organization.
>
>                  we welcome all criticisms, suggestions, concerns, &tc.
> toward this.
>
>                  defeat racist/sexist profiling & police abuse!
>
>                  cliff smith
>                  platform committee
>                  732.214.8828
>                  cliffsmith69@...
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1487
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-18 12:32:26
Subject:Re: [nbpc] VOTE YES - Elected School Board
Message:


Joe makes a very good argument here for joining forces around the elected 
school board question.  I would only add two points:
1. Along with mobilizing the youth, it is essential to make inroads with the 
teachers and staff workers within the school system.  It seems that this has 
consistantly been this campaign's weekest link.
2. Don't underestimate the city's determination and ability to fight the 
referendum, regardless of common push for McGreesy...that's what their 
'independant' Committee to Keep (People's) Politics out of Our Schools is 
for.


----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith"
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] VOTE YES - Elected School Board
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:06:24 -0400
to address flavio's question and to open up the discussion...
the school board question is a good discussion. why should it be run '01,
specifically addressing it in the context of the '00 campaign?
1. the people of new brunswick need and want us to work on winning an
elected school board. the top result of our 1000 surveys is community
control over education, so it is our responsiblity to work towards that goal
given every opportunity. the community will fully embrace our efforts and
therefor build our organization along the lines of democratic community
control.
2. working on the elected school board campaign will pull together all
of our forces. differences will be argued out in practice through a united
fashion. currently differences amongst activists are not moving anything
forward, and the peoples' struggles are not being embraced properly.
3. in light of the recently released standardized test results new brunswick
ranks as the worst education system in the county. the only appointed school
board in the county has the worst education results. that would be big in
our effort as to expose the appointed board as incompetent, even in the eyes
of its supporters.
4. there is no other local campaigns, ie. city council or mayor, so our
campaign along with the governors race would be the only items on the
ballot. the city will not be out in full force trying to knock our teeth
down our throats. this has many benifits and no downfalls:
I. no confusion amongst voters. only two things for us to explain
one - vote yes elected school board
two - vote mcgreasy
the city would have to work real hard to explain vote no, vote
mcgreasy.
II. the democratic city machine will not be allowed to fight us as
we will be working to defeat the republican candidate for
governor. mcgreasy can't afford to fight on both fronts, his
campaign must win and in order to win they must put all their
energy and resources into defeating the republican candidate.
(nbpc better work with mcgreasy to defeat the republicans)the
state democratic apparatus might just hand us the elected school
board to get us to work harder for mcgreasy, they can't afford
to lose. thus making this a golden opportunity to win the
campaign, to not run it would be a tremendous error.
III. next year 2002 will be a mayoral election as well as two city
council seats, if we win the elected school board this year,
it would legitamize any candidates we would run for mayor and
city council. the campaign for the elected school board would
be the initial step for our campaign for mayor and city
council. and even if we lose, it is necessary to keep the
community and organizers focused on electoral campaigns as the
way to build.
IV. how would it look in the democratic county seat if the
democratic city machine defeated our campaign for an elected
school board, but mcgreasy lost his campaign for governor. i
will emphasize, they can't allow that to happen!
5. we must organize our base back with the youth and get them back
into organizing in their city. this is an invaluable development of
the campaign. there was nothing better in last year's campaign then
the city's youth involvement. and there is no better way to organize
amongst NB youth then working on a issue that affects them all, their
schools.
6. nbpc will only have to gather 1400 petition signatures, i will turn in
the other 1400. it can be done by august at the rate of 88 signatures a week
beginning in may. that would break down to - worst case - 8 people from nbpc
get 11 signatures each, and 8 people from SWORD get 11 signatures each a
week. but these petitions will go must faster as we already have names and
addresses of those that signed last year, as well as all those we registered
to vote last year (these
would also be valuble resources to have fresh for next years campaign)
7. if the campaign for an elected school board is run and nbpc does
not work on it....
joe smith
>From: Groovemeister007@... Reply-To: 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com 
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination Date: Mon, 16 Apr 
>2001 21:39:25 -0000
>
>(speaking for myself and not as campaign GC)
>
>Joe:
>
>I am sorry for the misattribution as to who posted the bigoted Baraka poem. 
>However, I am concerned that you did not join my criticism of bigotry. Do 
>you think Baraka's thoughts as expressed in the poem are valid? Do you 
>think Jim's comments are justified?
>
>As for your point about Frank: he supports an elected resident on the 
>housing authority and it was he who introduced a well-written resolution to 
>urge compliance with that which will be voted upon at the next NBHA 
>meeting. What's more, he was the only commissioner to vote against the 
>monumental mistakes that the NBHA is committing with regard to its 
>contracts with TCB. Whatever I may think of Republicans, I do not view 
>Frank's work as the actions of a "theif" [sic] or an enemy of public 
>housing residents.
>
>Finally, I have not decided one way or the other on the question of the 
>elected school board campaign. I am interested in hearing your views of the 
>question of why it should be run again in 2001, specifically addressing it 
>in the context of the 2000 campaign. Also, what are your views on whether a 
>referendum for a ward-based instead of at-large council should be run in 
>2001, in addition to or instead of the elected school board question.
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" wrote: > i did not post the 
>poem by baraka, cliff did. but as far as the spirit of > the campaign, i 
>would like an explaination as to why you are not "entirely > outraged" that 
>bright is a theif that stole what belongs to the people of > public 
>housing. why is it that flavio is always buddying up to him, rather > than 
>being "entirely outraged". who are our friends and who are our > enemies? 
>nbpc is more allied with republicans than the tenants of public > housing. 
>under these relations, the more nbpc works to destabalize the > democratic 
>machine, the more nbpc will strenghten the republican machine. > > i can't 
>relate to your outrage flavio, because you can really care less > about the 
>people of new brunswick and the activists fighting for democratic > 
>community control. this will play out when nbpc votes not to work on the > 
>elected school board campaign april 28. > > joe > > 
>_________________________________________________________________ > Get 
>your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1488
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-19 12:14:57
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Bigoted?
Message:

Jim,

thanks for the clarification.  I try (sometimes successfully, 
sometimes not) to criticize ideas and not the individual advancing 
them; sort of 'hate the sin, not the sinner' as it were.  I certainly 
don't think you are bigoted in any way; I was just concerned about 
the tone of that particular post.  While I believe that faith has its 
place in human existence, I understand where you're coming from in 
your views.  

I very much apologize if I came on too strong in replying to it.

In unity,

Flavio


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >From: jmluceno@e...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: [nbpc] Bigoted?
> >Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 01:35:59 -0000
> >
> >Bigotry?  That's a tall accusation.
> >
> >1) I didn't say Christians are weak.  Look again.  I said "or";
> >not "and."  Do you think I'm stupid enough to a) think Christians 
are
> >weak, and/or b) say it on a politically correct mailing list?
> >Derrrrr.
> >
> >2) I do think Christianity is pre-modern, and I do think it's
> >adherents are out of touch with reality.  Please read section X of
> >David Hume's "Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding."  The 
part "On
> >Miracles."  Probably the only thing he wrote that I agree with.  
I'm
> >tolerant to an extent, but I'm not going to make believe that a
> >certain belief is reasonable when it clearly is *not* reasonable in
> >any way shape or form.
> >
> >3) This is not the campaign list anymore.  If you must criticize 
me,
> >do so.  But don't criticize me for not representing the campaign or
> >saying something that the campaign "is not about."
> >
> >4) To Matt Smith -- "nationalist" poetry?  Call it what it is.
> >RACIST.
> >
> >5) To all -- I'm not racist or bigoted.  I wholeheartedly apologize
> >for my message, because it was confusing.  I was just making a 
point
> >that you have to argue for an opinion.  None of us should be in the
> >habit of accepting premises based upon faith alone.  I for one have
> >not been convinced of the argument for reparations.  Come to think 
of
> >it, neither have most black people or members of the working class,
> >evidentally.  I wonder how Cliff, Joe, and co. deal with them.  
Maybe
> >the working class are Klan Imperialists too, because they disagree
> >with BOL on this issue.  Maybe everyone besides Cliff and Joe are
> >Klan Imperialists as a matter of fact.  Maybe like Spanish
> >Conquistadors, they believe it is their mission to smite the 
heathen
> >world in the name of the the Father (Marx), the Son (Lenin), and 
the
> >Holy Ghost (Stalin -- author of a tract on National Self-
> >Determination, Ironically the man who made the USSR an imperial
> >power).
> >
> >6) To Cliff -- Why it gotta be "Narrow Jim Low-ceno"?  Why not Slim
> >Jim?  That's funnier, because, heh, I'm actually kinda slim.  And,
> >like, my name is Jim too!! :D  Or how about SS-OBERFUHRER JIM 
LUCENO,
> >DIVISION OF RACE AND RESETTLEMENT?  You know, you really hold back
> >too much with your polemics.  You should allow yourself some
> >catharsis.  Let some of that anger out.  You're so darn reserved!
> >
> >Jim
> >








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1489
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-19 15:04:27
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Bigoted?
Message:

Hey, it's alright. I too recognize the need to kick a little ass
sometimes.  After writing the original post, I kind of expected that
sort of response from at least one person.

Speaking of which, good show at last night's city council meeting. 
You made them look like monkeys.  You had the pissed-off-Italian-dad
thing going there, too, which was a nice touch.

Jim  

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> Jim,
> 
> thanks for the clarification.  I try (sometimes successfully, 
> sometimes not) to criticize ideas and not the individual advancing 
> them; sort of 'hate the sin, not the sinner' as it were.  I
certainly 
> don't think you are bigoted in any way; I was just concerned about 
> the tone of that particular post.  While I believe that faith has
its 
> place in human existence, I understand where you're coming from in 
> your views.  
> 
> I very much apologize if I came on too strong in replying to it.
> 
> In unity,
> 
> Flavio
> 
> 
> --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >From: jmluceno@e...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: [nbpc] Bigoted?
> > >Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 01:35:59 -0000
> > >
> > >Bigotry?  That's a tall accusation.
> > >
> > >1) I didn't say Christians are weak.  Look again.  I said "or";
> > >not "and."  Do you think I'm stupid enough to a) think Christians 
> are
> > >weak, and/or b) say it on a politically correct mailing list?
> > >Derrrrr.
> > >
> > >2) I do think Christianity is pre-modern, and I do think it's
> > >adherents are out of touch with reality.  Please read section X
of
> > >David Hume's "Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding."  The 
> part "On
> > >Miracles."  Probably the only thing he wrote that I agree with.  
> I'm
> > >tolerant to an extent, but I'm not going to make believe that a
> > >certain belief is reasonable when it clearly is *not* reasonable
in
> > >any way shape or form.
> > >
> > >3) This is not the campaign list anymore.  If you must criticize 
> me,
> > >do so.  But don't criticize me for not representing the campaign
or
> > >saying something that the campaign "is not about."
> > >
> > >4) To Matt Smith -- "nationalist" poetry?  Call it what it is.
> > >RACIST.
> > >
> > >5) To all -- I'm not racist or bigoted.  I wholeheartedly
apologize
> > >for my message, because it was confusing.  I was just making a 
> point
> > >that you have to argue for an opinion.  None of us should be in
the
> > >habit of accepting premises based upon faith alone.  I for one
have
> > >not been convinced of the argument for reparations.  Come to
think 
> of
> > >it, neither have most black people or members of the working
class,
> > >evidentally.  I wonder how Cliff, Joe, and co. deal with them.  
> Maybe
> > >the working class are Klan Imperialists too, because they
disagree
> > >with BOL on this issue.  Maybe everyone besides Cliff and Joe are
> > >Klan Imperialists as a matter of fact.  Maybe like Spanish
> > >Conquistadors, they believe it is their mission to smite the 
> heathen
> > >world in the name of the the Father (Marx), the Son (Lenin), and 
> the
> > >Holy Ghost (Stalin -- author of a tract on National Self-
> > >Determination, Ironically the man who made the USSR an imperial
> > >power).
> > >
> > >6) To Cliff -- Why it gotta be "Narrow Jim Low-ceno"?  Why not
Slim
> > >Jim?  That's funnier, because, heh, I'm actually kinda slim. 
And,
> > >like, my name is Jim too!! :D  Or how about SS-OBERFUHRER JIM 
> LUCENO,
> > >DIVISION OF RACE AND RESETTLEMENT?  You know, you really hold
back
> > >too much with your polemics.  You should allow yourself some
> > >catharsis.  Let some of that anger out.  You're so darn reserved!
> > >
> > >Jim
> > >







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1490
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-17 13:43:15
Subject:VOTE YES - Elected School Board
Message:

to address flavio's question and to open up the discussion...

the school board question is a good discussion. why should it be run '01, 
specifically addressing it in the context of the '00 campaign?

1. the people of new brunswick need and want us to work on winning an 
elected school board. the top result of our 1000 surveys is community 
control over education, so it is our responsiblity to work towards that goal 
given every opportunity. the community will fully embrace our efforts and 
therefor build our organization along the lines of democratic community 
control.

2. working on the elected school board campaign will pull together all
of our forces. differences will be argued out in practice through a united 
fashion. currently differences amongst activists are not moving anything 
forward, and the peoples' struggles are not being embraced properly.

3. in light of the recently released standardized test results new brunswick 
ranks as the worst education system in the county. the only appointed school 
board in the county has the worst education results. that would be big in 
our effort as to expose the appointed board as incompetent, even in the eyes 
of its supporters.

4. there is no other local campaigns, ie. city council or mayor, so our 
campaign along with the governors race would be the only items on the 
ballot. the city will not be out in full force trying to knock our teeth 
down our throats. this has many benifits and no downfalls:
  I. no confusion amongst voters. only two things for us to explain       
one - vote yes elected school board
    two - vote mcgreasy
    the city would have to work real hard to explain vote no, vote        
mcgreasy.
  II. the democratic city machine will not be allowed to fight us as
      we will be working to defeat the republican candidate for
      governor. mcgreasy can't afford to fight on both fronts, his          
campaign must win and in order to win they must put all their
      energy and resources into defeating the republican candidate.
      (nbpc better work with mcgreasy to defeat the republicans)the
      state democratic apparatus might just hand us the elected school
      board to get us to work harder for mcgreasy, they can't afford        
to lose. thus making this a golden opportunity to win the             
campaign, to not run it would be a tremendous error.
  III. next year 2002 will be a mayoral election as well as two city
       council seats, if we win the elected school board this year,
       it would legitamize any candidates we would run for mayor and
       city council. the campaign for the elected school board would
       be the initial step for our campaign for mayor and city        
council. and even if we lose, it is necessary to keep the             
community and organizers focused on electoral campaigns as the        way to 
build.
  IV. how would it look in the democratic county seat if the
      democratic city machine defeated our campaign for an elected
      school board, but mcgreasy lost his campaign for governor. i
      will emphasize, they can't allow that to happen!

5. we must organize our base back with the youth and get them back
into organizing in their city. this is an invaluable development of
the campaign. there was nothing better in last year's campaign then
the city's youth involvement. and there is no better way to organize
amongst NB youth then working on a issue that affects them all, their 
schools.

6. nbpc will only have to gather 1400 petition signatures, i will turn in 
the other 1400. it can be done by august at the rate of 88 signatures a week 
beginning in may. that would break down to - worst case - 8 people from nbpc 
get 11 signatures each, and 8 people from SWORD get 11 signatures each a 
week. but these petitions will go must faster as we already have names and 
addresses of those that signed last year, as well as all those we registered 
to vote last year (these
would also be valuble resources to have fresh for next years campaign)

7. if the campaign for an elected school board is run and nbpc does
not work on it....


joe smith

>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination
>Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:39:25 -0000
>
>(speaking for myself and not as campaign GC)
>
>Joe:
>
>I am sorry for the misattribution as to who posted the bigoted Baraka
>poem.  However, I am concerned that you did not join my criticism of
>bigotry.  Do you think Baraka's thoughts as expressed in the poem are
>valid?  Do you think Jim's comments are justified?
>
>As for your point about Frank: he supports an elected resident on the
>housing authority and it was he who introduced a well-written
>resolution to urge compliance with that which will be voted upon at
>the next NBHA meeting.  What's more, he was the only commissioner to
>vote against the monumental mistakes that the NBHA is committing with
>regard to its contracts with TCB.  Whatever I may think of
>Republicans, I do not view Frank's work as the actions of a "theif"
>[sic] or an enemy of public housing residents.
>
>Finally, I have not decided one way or the other on the question of
>the elected school board campaign.  I am interested in hearing your
>views of the question of why it should be run again in 2001,
>specifically addressing it in the context of the 2000 campaign.
>Also, what are your views on whether a referendum for a ward-based
>instead of at-large council should be run in 2001, in addition to or
>instead of the elected school board question.
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > i did not post the poem by baraka, cliff did. but as far as the
>spirit of
> > the campaign, i would like an explaination as to why you are
>not "entirely
> > outraged" that bright is a theif that stole what belongs to the
>people of
> > public housing. why is it that flavio is always buddying up to him,
>rather
> > than being "entirely outraged". who are our friends and who  are
>our
> > enemies? nbpc is more allied with republicans than the tenants of
>public
> > housing. under these relations, the more nbpc works to destabalize
>the
> > democratic machine, the more nbpc will strenghten the republican
>machine.
> >
> > i can't relate to your outrage flavio, because you can really care
>less
> > about the people of new brunswick and the activists fighting for
>democratic
> > community control. this will play out when nbpc votes not to work
>on the
> > elected school board campaign april 28.
> >
> > joe
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1491
Sender:"Joseph Mosley" <joemosley1@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-21 08:27:30
Subject:Re: [NB_CC_TF] Fwd: [CoalitionOPRA] Public Housing + NBHA
Message:

ALERT!

Last night I heard of a Memorial Homes tenant who has chldren in last year of N.B. High School and in Technology & Science High School. With a record of more than ten years of conswcutive service with the same company and living within walking distance of her workplace, this tenant has been offered relocation in Bound Brook and Plainfield. I believe that the tenants who are facing eviction need three and four bedroom apartments which are not available in the traditional areas where "these people" are relocated. I believe that she will be at the next Housing Authority meeting Wednesday. If this tenant decides to "go public" we should pack that meeting to show solidarity.

I will keep you informed.

JoeMosley


----- Original Message -----
From: Anne Barron
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 10:08 AM
To: NB_CC_TF@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [NB_CC_TF] Fwd: [CoalitionOPRA] Public Housing + NBHA


Hi, all

reminder our next meeting is next Tuesday, 6:30 @ 116
Livingston Ave (I think).

some of you have been following what New Brunswick
Housing Authority is doing regarding replacement homes
for Memorial Homes.  They have hired a private company
(The Community Builders, Inc.) to build homes in
NB...they have given land worth over $4mil and a HUD
loan over $1.6 mil to the developer to build homes
(not all the homes will be affordable housing) but the
contract NBHA signed has no clause to stop the deal if
the developer fails to build the small number of homes
they are supposed to.

also-no money is set aside for some sort of community
center tho' I think I heard that there would be a
private community room.

apparently, the private company told the public that
the records/documents relating to this development are
private as well.  this goes against the Open Public
Records Act, which states that records dealing w/
public monies must be open to the public.

following is the advice from a member of NJ Foundation
for Open Government regarding the rights of the public
to documents from this developer.

see you
Anne
Note: forwarded message attached.


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1492
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-21 08:49:46
Subject:Re: [NB_CC_TF] Fwd: [CoalitionOPRA] Public Housing + NBHA
Message:

COME HEAR THE VOICE OF TRUTH.
MINISTER TRACY FORD, RADICAL REPUBLICAN REVOLUTIONARY, OF MOUNT CALVARY
BAPTIST CHURCH
150 THROOP AVENUE
NEW BRUNSWICK, NEW JERSEY 08901
732-247-4410
WILL BE PREACHING A POWER, INSPIRATION MESSAGE
"THE MILITANT CHRISTIAN: HOW TO OVERCOME THE DEVIL"
AT TRAVELERS FELLOWSHIP BAPTIST CHURCH
33POPLAR ROAD
PISCATAWAY, NEW JERSEY 08854
732-572-1313
7:00PM, MONDAY, APRIL 23, 2001







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1493
Sender:JeanRoss55@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-21 09:58:12
Subject:Platform Committee
Message:

Dear cliff and Howard,

Sorry this is so late. Being somewhat burnt out at work has exacerbated my 
occasional tendency to procrastinate. I found both of your e-mails to be 
helpful in summarizing our discussion. The attached, which I will bring with 
me, is intended as a brief  summary of our approach, which I could hand out 
at the meeting this afternoon. Will try to be more timely in my responses in 
the future.

Jean


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1494
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-21 19:57:05
Subject:Fwd: Fw: [BRC-NEWS] The Case for Reparations
Message:



>From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
>To: <poprogress@egroups.com>, <cliffsmith69@...>
>Subject: Fw: [BRC-NEWS] The Case for Reparations
>Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:33:56 -0400
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sundiata Keita Cha-Jua" <schajua@...>
>To: <brc-news@...>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:14 PM
>Subject: [BRC-NEWS] The Case for Reparations
>
>
> > April 9, 2001
> >
> > Slavery, Racist Violence, and Apartheid:
> > The Case for Reparations
> >
> > By Sundiata Keita Cha-Jua <schajua@...>
> >
> > I may state to all our friends, and to all our enemies, that
> > we has a right to the land where we are located. For why? I
> > tell you. Our wives, our children, our husbands, has been
> > sold over and over again to purchase the lands we now locate
> > upon; for that reason we have a divine right to the land.
> > And den didn't we clear the lands and raise the crops of
> > corn, ob cotton, ob tobacco, ob rice, ob sugar, ob
> > everything? And den didn't the large cities in de North grow
> > up on de cotton and de sugars and de rice dat we made? . . .
> > I say they have grown rich, and my people is poor.
> > --Bayley Wyatt, a freedman from Yorktown, Virginia in Roy
> >   Finkenbine (ed.), Sources of the African-American Past
> >   (London: Longman, 1993), p. 88.
> >
> >
> > Neoconservative activist David Horowitz's anti-reparations
> > advertisement has provoked a storm of controversy on college
> > campus from Maine to California. In the wake of multiracial
> > student protests, many university newspapers have rightfully
> > refused to run Horowitz's factually challenged ad. Despite
> > his intentions, David Horowitz has helped move the issue of
> > reparations for African Americans into the headlines and the
> > consciousness of the American public. Although mainstream
> > talk shows have merely provided Horowitz with a friendly
> > forum in which to reiterate his simplistic and contradictory
> > rant, his ad and appearances have reenergized student
> > activism.
> >
> >
> > Ten Reasons why African Americans Deserve Reparations
> >
> > To understand what's at stake requires we contextualize and
> > thoroughly analyze Horowitz's "Ten Reasons Why Reparations
> > for Blacks Are a Bad Idea for Blacks -- and Racist Too." It
> > was first published as part of The Death of the Civil Rights
> > Movement (Los Angeles: Center for the Study of Popular
> > Culture, 2000). Death is a diatribe against Rev. Al
> > Sharpton's "Redeem the Dream" March to end racial profiling.
> > Consequently, Death is a vociferous attack on Black
> > activists and a fevered defense of racial profiling. For
> > instance, Horowitz interprets Attorney Johnnie Cochran's
> > encouraging Blacks to join juries, as racist. Horowitz
> > snidely sums up Cochran's point as "Get it, Whitey?" (P. 9).
> > Knowing his audience facilitates unmasking his motivations.
> > Horowitz's purpose is to spark racial hostility, to mobilize
> > opposition to the elimination of discriminatory policies and
> > practices. Thus, "Ten Reasons" first appeared as part of a
> > pro-racial profiling pamphlet.
> >
> > Horowitz's real purpose is to promote the notion that race,
> > by which he means racism is dead. From this perverted
> > position, he logically concludes that contemporary Black
> > activism is unnecessary. Therefore, he portrays activists as
> > self-serving con artists and the African American people as
> > their dupes. In Horowitz's color-blind perspective, group
> > parity is irrelevant, because race is a fiction. He wants
> > the public to believe that because race is an unscientific
> > concept that it is also a non-existent social reality.
> > Horowitz is the ultimate wolf in sheep's clothing. He is the
> > prototypical color-blind liberal or neoconservative who
> > would abolish the race concept, that is all racial
> > classification; but would maintain the system and social
> > relations produced by racial oppression.
> >
> > As important, if not more so, is the moment during which
> > Horowitz escalated his anti-reparations assault. Over the
> > past few years, activists have pushed reparations to the
> > center of discourse in the African American community.
> > Moreover, it has recently burst into traditional politics.
> > Several city councils, including Chicago, Dallas, and
> > Detroit have passed pro-reparation resolutions. According to
> > Horowitz, he launched his latest salvo because reparations
> > "is fast becoming the next big `civil rights' thing" (p.
> > 30).
> >
> > Horowitz frames his anti-reparations argument in the form of
> > questions or assertions and responses. His opinions are
> > devoid of data and deficient in historical evidence. Because
> > they lack validity, his responses never rise to the level of
> > "answers." What are Horowitz's specific arguments against
> > African American reparations? The titles in the
> > advertisement often differ from those in Death. Whereas the
> > pamphlet targeted the racist right, the ad aimed for a mass
> > audience; thus, Horowitz sanitized it of its more explicitly
> > inflammatory titles. Consequently, because the titles in
> > Death are generally more revealing of his racist motivations
> > I have chosen to use them. Nevertheless, I engage his
> > responses in both Death and the advertisement.
> >
> >
> > 1. Who Owes the Debt?
> >
> > Horowitz claims "There is no single group clearly
> > responsible for the crime of slavery" because of African and
> > Arab involvement in the slave trade and 3,000 African
> > American slaveholders. The problems with his presentation
> > here pervades the rest of his discussion. This time his
> > information is generally accurate but stripped from its
> > socio-historical and legal context, and the power relations
> > of the slave(ry) trade its trivia, at best, and duplicitous,
> > at worst. That is, without the context we do not know what
> > this information means and when contextualized it generally
> > does not mean what Horowitz implies. Scholars of the slave
> > trade generally acknowledge the role of power relations as a
> > coercive factor stimulating African participation. As Walter
> > Rodney pointed out in his classic text, How Europe
> > Underdeveloped Africa, Europeans controlled the
> > international slave trade. Without excusing the role of
> > kings and other African elites, their involvement must be
> > understood in the context of actual power relations.
> >
> > Another example of how decontextualization distorts history
> > is his discussion of Black slaveholders. First, according to
> > census of 1830 there 3,777 Black slave owners, not 3,000 as
> > Horowitz states (Christian, 1999, p. 100). Amazingly, his
> > facts are wrong, even when they bolster his position!
> > Nevertheless, the existence of 3,777 Black slaveholders is
> > meaningless without knowing the total number of
> > slaveholders. In 1850 there were 348,000 slave holding
> > families (the Census Bureau collected the data on families,
> > not individuals). Thus, the three thousand seventy-seven
> > Black slaveholders comprised only about one percent of
> > slaveholding families! Second, African American slave owners
> > were a statistical reality that tells us nothing about
> > actual relationships. Although many Black slave owners held
> > others in bondage, that is they asserted rights of ownership
> > and exploited slave labor, most did not. Most so-called
> > Black slave owners are a statistical phenomenon. They were
> > people of some means who purchased family and friends from
> > bondage, but never imposed master-slave relationships.
> >
> > Even given the role of Africans, Arabs, and African
> > Americans Horowitz's conclusion is deceptive. He offers a
> > negative conclusion, "no single group is responsible"; yet,
> > this scenario cries out for a positive one, i.e., that
> > several groups were responsible. Moreover, the participation
> > of multiple ethnicities does not mean that all participated
> > or benefited equally. Furthermore, African Americans seek
> > recompense from the only governmental entity still in
> > existence the United States, their government.
> >
> >
> > 2. African Americans Have also Benefited from Slavery
> >
> > Horowitz makes two comparative claims here. First, he argues
> > that if the present wealth of the United States resulted
> > from slavery, than African Americans as well as whites are
> > beneficiaries of enslavement. Second, he offers an estimate
> > of the difference between African Americans' and Africans'
> > per capita incomes as evidence that African Americans
> > benefited from slavery.
> >
> > First, he proceeds as if wealth accumulation produces
> > positive impacts across society. This illogical argument
> > suggests that slaves of wealthy masters were better off than
> > the slaves of poor ones. Relationships of domination and
> > exploitation are parasitic, not mutually beneficial. That
> > is, the slave trade and slavery enriched European nation-
> > states and the U.S. (particularly the class of slaveholders,
> > slave trading merchants and manufacturers) but impoverished
> > Africans and African Americans. Horowitz can only make this
> > argument in the abstract. Actual data reveals that African
> > Americas' percentage of U.S. wealth has stayed roughly the
> > same, about one percent since the ante-bellum period.
> > Furthermore, he limits his discussion of "benefits" to a
> > narrow economic argument. Thus, he circumvents discussing
> > the effects of racial oppression, particularly racist
> > violence in producing stressors that undermine Blacks'
> > physical and psychological health.
> >
> > His second assertion is also ahistorical and represents a
> > false comparison. It is ahistorical because he ignores the
> > role of five centuries of slave trading and colonialism in
> > producing contemporary African poverty. Secondly, comparing
> > the per capita income of African Americans to various
> > African nationalities is spurious because of the vast
> > differences in the gross national product of African
> > nation-states and the U.S. This difference is largely the
> > consequence of the slave trade and colonialism.
> >
> >
> > 3. What About the Descendants of Union Soldiers Who Gave
> > Their Lives To Free the Slaves?
> >
> > Here Horowitz makes three assertions. First, he contends
> > only a minority of whites nationally owned slaves. Second,
> > he claims only one in five whites in the ante- bellum South
> > was a slaveholder. Third, he posits that 350,000 Union
> > soldiers "died in the war that freed the slaves" (p. 35).
> > His first claim is correct; nationally, only a minority of
> > U.S. families owned slaves. In 1790 23 percent of the U.S.
> > families owned slaves and only 10 percent in 1850. However,
> > his second claim is a blatant lie. In 1790 72 percent of
> > southern families owned slaves. In 1850, in the South
> > Atlantic and the East Central sub regions, 31 and 32 percent
> > of families owned slaves (Census Bureau, 1979, p. 12)
> >
> > In his third declaration, Horowitz deliberately misleads the
> > reader by blurring the issue. Three hundred fifty thousand
> > Union soldiers died in the Civil War and the war did
> > precipitate slavery's abolition, but it was not fought to
> > abolish slavery. The North fought to preserve the Union. It
> > only became a war to end slavery when Lincoln realized that
> > victory necessitated destroying the Confederacy's capacity
> > to wage war, that is removing its most productive resource,
> > Black slaves.
> >
> >
> > 4. Most Whites Have No Connection to Slavery
> >
> > Horowitz's main contention is that most contemporary U.S.
> > citizens do not have a "lineal connection to slavery" (p.
> > 35). His argument here is quite devious. First, he uses the
> > ambiguity inherent in term "lineal" to manipulate the
> > reader. Second, he cynically attempts to pit African
> > Americans against recent immigrants of color and other
> > oppressed ethnicities. Although Horowitz means a straight
> > line for many readers lineal suggests a heredity
> > relationship. Of course, most Americans are not biological
> > descendants of slaveholders, but all white Americans have
> > benefited from the legacy of racial oppression -- white
> > privilege and Black exploitation, exclusion and
> > subordination. Planters, small slaveholders, and capitalist
> > manufacturers, exporters, investors, and insurers of slave
> > produced products benefited from the exploitation of slave
> > labor. During the century from 1865 to 1965 the same groups,
> > plus industrial capitalists benefited from the
> > superexploitation of Black labor.
> >
> > Third, he limits reparations to compensation for slavery. It
> > is on this basis that he argues post-slavery immigrants are
> > not liable for reparations. Although post slavery European
> > immigrants were brutally exploited and endured ethnic
> > discrimination, like the Irish and Germans before them they
> > expressed their rage by replicating their treatment on
> > Blacks. Even so, by World War II the Italians, Hungarians
> > Greeks, and Poles had become "white" and have since enjoyed
> > the full benefits of whiteness in a white supremacist
> > country. Whether native or immigrant the vast majority of
> > white middle and working class Americans, have benefited
> > from the exclusion of Blacks from professional and civil
> > service jobs, unions, and governmental programs. For
> > instance, African Americans were denied the opportunity to
> > participate in the 1962 Homestead Act that transferred
> > hundreds of millions of acres to white citizens and European
> > immigrants. Additionally, Blacks were practically excluded
> > from the 1935 Social Security Act because almost all worked
> > as farm laborers or domestics. Furthermore, from the 1940s
> > to the early 1960s white homebuyers obtained low interest
> > Federal Housing Authority loans, a program from which Blacks
> > were excluded. Finally, as governmental data indicates
> > whites continue to benefit from racial discrimination in
> > employment, loans, housing, and healthcare. Consequently,
> > activists demand reparations not just for enslavement, but
> > for exclusion, discrimination, and the racial violence that
> > characterized the era of segregation as well for
> > contemporary disparities.
> >
> > Finally, his argument here implicitly his contradicts the
> > position presented in point two. There he argues that if the
> > United States' wealth was partly created by slave labor,
> > than African Americans, as inheritors of U.S. wealth, are
> > also beneficiaries of slave- produced wealth. If he were
> > right, wouldn't this situation also apply to all persons
> > living in the U.S., including white Americans?
> >
> >
> > 5. The Cases of Jewish and Japanese Reparations Are Not
> > Comparable And Therefore Do Not Provide Precedents
> >
> > Horowitz dismisses African Americans' reparation claims
> > because unlike Jews and Japanese-Americans, he contends
> > Blacks are not survivors of the wrongs for which they seek
> > retribution. He frames his argument in what legal scholar
> > Eric K. Yamamoto calls "traditional remedies law," which
> > seeks to identify specific individual victims and abusers
> > (Yamamoto, 1998, p. 488). However, Black demands for
> > reparations are based on group, not individual rights.
> >
> > From about 1641 to 1965, federal and state law classified
> > individuals by race and distinguished rights and
> > opportunities on that basis. Group membership, not
> > individual merit, determined one's role, position, and
> > status in the economy, polity, and civil society.
> > Individuals assigned to the African category were treated as
> > a separate and subordinate group.
> >
> > Moreover, since the establishment of the Indian Claims
> > Commission in 1946, the U.S. federal government and numerous
> > state governments have paid reparations to persons other
> > than survivors or their immediate descendants. During the
> > 1980s several Native American nations have received
> > reparations in form of money and land for actions a century
> > or more ago. For instance, in 1986 the Ottawas of Michigan
> > received $32 million based on an 1836 Treaty.
> >
> >
> > 6. What About Successful Blacks? What Is Their Economic
> > Grievance?
> >
> > Horowitz's major assertion is that slavery and subsequent
> > racial discrimination were either non-existent or have been
> > insufficient barriers to success. He make this point by
> > contrasting the Black middle class, which he claims composes
> > the majority of African Americans, and West Indian
> > immigrants to the so-called "underclass." Except the
> > disparities between African Americans' and West Indians'
> > incomes, his assertions are unsupported. Moreover, his logic
> > and conclusions are absurd.
> >
> > First, the minority of African Americans who attained middle
> > class position, have generally done so by taking advantage
> > of the fleeting opportunities available in the aftermath of
> > successful collective Black struggles. Members of those
> > classes best positioned previously have made the most
> > advances. Moreover, that members of the Black middle and
> > capitalist classes suffer racial discrimination is widely
> > documented in past and current employment, housing, and loan
> > discrimination suits. Horowitz's attempt to use Oprah
> > Winfrey and the few wealthy Blacks to shift attention from
> > racism to class is dishonest and malevolent. He alleges that
> > contemporary Black-white income disparities are the
> > consequence of "individual character" (p. 39). To blame most
> > Blacks for not surmounting racism is analogous to
> > questioning the character of victims of the holocaust
> > because a few Jews managed to escape! In addition to his
> > racism, Horowitz's central problem is his refusal to
> > recognize that social groups (racial, ethnic, gender, class,
> > etc.) are the organizing principle of human societies.
> >
> > If the question is historic group-based disparities, why
> > rely on income rather than wealth? The wealth index measures
> > accumulated assets over a lifetime, instead of one year's
> > monetary returns. Currently, the median net wealth of Black
> > households is about 12% that of whites; but only 1% if home
> > equity is deducted. This is extremely important since Blacks
> > were initially excluded from government sponsored
> > homeownership programs. Furthermore, that much of this
> > discrepancy is due to inheritance underlines the historic
> > accumulative nature of African American poverty.
> >
> > On the surface, his comparison between West Indian
> > immigrants and African Americans seems to have merit. Yet, a
> > closer analysis reveals the spuriousness of this comparison.
> > Horowitz's discussion is ahistorical and superficial. He
> > implicitly treats all slave systems the same. West Indian
> > immigrants are the descendants of slaves, but they come
> > slave systems that differed markedly from U.S. slavery.
> > Because African slaves greatly outnumbered whites in the
> > West Indies, the white working and yeoman farming classes
> > were minute; therefore a large number of slave acquired
> > valuable skills. More important, most contemporary Caribbean
> > immigrants are the products of independent countries and
> > were socialized in societies controlled by people of African
> > descent.
> >
> >
> > 7. Reparations Will Increase Victim Mentalities, Negative
> > Attitudes and Alienation Within the Black Community
> >
> > First, Horowitz has it backwards. The Black struggle for
> > justice, freedom, and self-determination, including
> > reparations is empowering. Participation it the struggle
> > produces cognitive liberation, self-esteem, and a sense of
> > efficacy. Do all reparations create a "victim mentality, or
> > just reparations to African Americans? What is a victim
> > mentality? Is it recognition that Blacks have been and
> > continue to be victimized by racial oppression? Recognition
> > is the first step toward resolution. The problem is not that
> > Blacks possess a negative victim mentality, but that
> > Horowitz has a "blame-the-victim" mentality. He is unwilling
> > to honestly acknowledge the centuries of racial oppression
> > to which African Americans have been subjected by white
> > Americans.
> >
> >
> > 8. What About the Reparations That Have Already Been Paid?
> >
> > Horowitz's contention that inclusion in Great Society social
> > programs should count as reparations is absurd. He simply
> > ignores the multiple roles social programs play in U.S.
> > society. On the one hand, Great Society initiated programs
> > were ostensibly designed to abolish poverty. Programs, such
> > as AFDC and food stamps, were class- determined minimum
> > subsistence programs. Whites have made up the overwhelming
> > majority of aid recipients, and the proportion of African
> > Americans has been disproportionate. Nevertheless,
> > Horowitz's discussion rips them from their broader public
> > policy context. Great Society programs were part of
> > Keynesian economics, the country's policy of using
> > governmental spending to stimulate economic growth --
> > employment and consumption. In addition to increasing levels
> > of purchasing, these programs also created well paying
> > government jobs for a predominately white middle class. On
> > the other hand, some programs were designed specifically to
> > address discrimination, racial, gender, ethnic, and
> > religious. No government program has sought to solely
> > benefit Blacks. Moreover, white women and white men over
> > fifty-five, not Blacks, have been the major beneficiaries of
> > affirmative action.
> >
> >
> > 9. What About The Debt Blacks Owe To America?
> >
> > He continues to falsify history, here by distorting the
> > history of the abolition movement, in both the U.S. and
> > Britain. Two points are important: (1) his denial of Black
> > agency; and (2) his crude one-sided interpretation of
> > abolitionism, particularly in Britain. African slaves and
> > quasi-free Blacks initiated the abolition movement. Horowitz
> > omits any discussion of Black self-activity because his goal
> > is to present African Americans as indebted, ungrateful
> > children. Therefore, he mentions 3,000 Black slaveholders,
> > but omits thousands of Black abolitionists, 186,000 Black
> > Union soldiers, and numerous slave revolts for his account.
> >
> > Continuing his manichaean view of history, he presents the
> > British Anti-Slavery Movement as simply an exercise in
> > humanism. He simply extends his argument concerning Union
> > soldiers and Christian abolitionists in the U.S. to Britain.
> > In reality, the British anti-slavery movement was a mixture
> > of humanitarians and imperialists. More important, British
> > abolitionism drew its impetus from a complex mixture of
> > humanist sentiments, economic motivations, and fear of slave
> > rebellions. Horowitz misses these nuances because his
> > purpose is to exaggerate white humanitarianism and deny
> > Black agency. Thus, he denigrates the life and death
> > struggle waged by African Americans throughout U.S. history
> > by calling hard-won rights gifts. In sum, this argument
> > approximates those who called for compensation for the
> > slaveholders!
> >
> >
> > 10. Blacks are Virtually the Oldest Americans, Why Not
> > Embrace Their American Destiny
> >
> > His last assertions are as duplicitous and dumb as those
> > that precede them. Essentially, he reiterates the tired
> > assimilationist position. Consequently, he charges that
> > pursuing reparations will only further isolate American
> > Americans. First, as always he blames the oppressed for
> > conditions created by the oppressor. Black isolation,
> > geographically, socially, and politically is a consequence
> > of white capitalist created ghettoization, ostracism, and
> > racism.
> >
> > Horowitz's one-sided analysis obscures the potentially
> > positive aspects of reparations. Beginning with Presidential
> > and congressional apologies (Congress apologized to
> > Japanese-Americans in 1988 and to Hawaiians in 1993) the
> > U.S. government and white Americans can initiate a sincere
> > conversation on racial oppression. Finally, the payment of
> > several hundred billion dollars in reparations would
> > ultimately benefit all Americans. Reparations would enable
> > the rebuilding of Black civil society, the transformation of
> > inner city ghettoes, the rebuilding of urban infrastructure,
> > and go along way toward eliminating poverty. Reparations
> > represent a way to repair the past, a means "to rebuild
> > relationships through attitudinal changes and institutional
> > restructuring" (Yamamoto, p. 521). Conclusion
> >
> > Horowitz's argument is redundant, racist, ahistorical, and
> > manipulative. In his zeal to discipline Blacks for
> > challenging U.S. reality and for rejecting the hypocritical
> > America dream, Horowitz fails to consider the debt America
> > owes Blacks. Beyond apologies and the transfer of billions
> > of resources for past and present oppression, the U.S.,
> > especially white Americans owe African Americans for forcing
> > it toward its noblest ideals. The Black Freedom Movement has
> > been at the crux of every progressive social change in the
> > nation's history. African Americans have been the most
> > thorough and determined fighters in the struggle to expand
> > democracy and socioeconomic security beyond white male
> > elites. The Black Freedom Movement has served as the
> > inspiration and model for the new social movements that are
> > challenging the nightmare. Horowitz wants to bury this
> > legacy and possibility. Yet, ironically his actions have
> > produced the opposite effect. His diatribe has energized a
> > nascent Black student movement and transformed college
> > campuses into sites of struggle. Furthermore, his ad has
> > forced the mainstream media to remove the shroud covering
> > the struggle for reparations, thus making audible the claims
> > of our ancestors.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Sundiata Keita Cha-Jua is an Associate Professor of Historical
> > Studies at Southern Illinois University-Edwardsville, and a
> > member of the National Council of the Black Radical Congress.
> > The views and opinions expressed in this article are his own.
> >
> > --
> >
> > References
> >
> > Marcellus Andrews, Political Economy Of Hope And Fear:
> > Capitalism And The Black Condition In America (New York: New
> > York University Press, 1999),
> >
> > Ronald Bailey, "The Slave(ry) Trade. "Journal of Social
> > Science History, 14: 3 (Fall 1990), pp. 373-414.
> >
> > Roy L. Brooks (ed.), When Sorry Isn't Enough: The
> > Controversy over Apologies and Reparations for Human
> > Injustice (New York: New York University Press, 1999).
> >
> > Bureau of the Census, The Special and Economic Status of the
> > Black Population in the United States: An Historical View,
> > 1790-1978 (Washington, D.C., Department of Commerce, 1979).
> >
> > Charles M. Christian, Black saga: The African American
> > Experience (A Chronology) Washington, D.C.: Civitas, 1999).
> >
> > Edward Countryman, Americans: A Collision of Histories (New
> > York: Hill and Wang, 1997).
> >
> > Seymour Drescher, Capitalism and Anti-Slavery: British
> > Mobilization in Comparative Perspective (New York: Oxford
> > University Press, 1987).
> >
> > John Hope Franklin and Alfred A. Moss, Jr., From Slavery to
> > Freedom: A History of African Americans, 8th ed. (New York:
> > McGraw-Hill, 2000).
> >
> > Roy Finkenbine (ed.), Sources of the African-American Past
> > (London: Longman, 1997).
> >
> > C.L.R. James, "The Atlantic Slave Trade and Slavery: Some
> > Interpretations of their Significance in the Development of
> > the United States and the Western World," in C.L.R. James,
> > The Future in the Present: Selected Writings (Westport, CN:
> > Lawrence Hill & Co., 1977), pp. 235-64.
> >
> > Edward Magdol, A Right to the Land: Essays on the Freedman's
> > Community (Westport, CT: Greenwood Press, 1977),
> >
> > Bernard Makhosezwe Magubane, "The Political Economy of the
> > Black World: Origins of the Present Crisis," in African
> > Sociology-Towards a Critical Perspective: The Collected
> > essays of Bernard Makhosezwe Magubane (Trenton, NJ: Africa
> > World Press, 2000), pp. 405-21.
> >
> > Benjamin Quarles, Black Abolitionists (New York: Oxford
> > University Press, 1969).
> >
> > Roger L. Ransom, Conflict and Compromise: The Political
> > Economy of Slavery, Emancipation, and the American Civil War
> > (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1995).
> >
> > Walter Rodney, How Europe Underdeveloped Africa, rev. ed.
> > (Washington, DC: Howard University Press, 1981).
> >
> > Herbert Shapiro, White Violence and Black Response (Amherst:
> > University of Massachusetts Press, 1988).
> >
> > Robert Westley, "Many Billions Gone: Is It Time to
> > Reconsider the Case for Black Reparations," Boston College
> > Law Review 40 (December 1998), pp. 429-76.
> >
> > Eric K. Yamamoto, "Racial Reparations: Japanese Americans
> > Redress and African American Claims," Boston College Law
> > Review 40 (December 1998), pp. 477-523.
> >
> > Copyright (c) 2001 Sundiata Keita Cha-Jua. All Rights Reserved.
> >
> >
> >
> > [IMPORTANT NOTE: The views and opinions expressed on this
> > list are solely those of the authors and/or publications,
> > and do not necessarily represent or reflect the official
> > political positions of the Black Radical Congress (BRC).
> > Official BRC statements, position papers, press releases,
> > action alerts, and announcements are distributed exclusively
> > via the BRC-PRESS list. As a subscriber to this list, you
> > have been added to the BRC-PRESS list automatically.]
> >
> > [Articles on BRC-NEWS may be forwarded and posted on other
> > mailing lists, as long as the wording/attribution is not altered
> > in any way. In particular, if there is a reference to a web site
> > where an article was originally located, do *not* remove that.
> >
> > Unless stated otherwise, do *not* publish or post the entire
> > text of any articles on web sites or in print, without getting
> > *explicit* permission from the article author or copyright holder.
> > Check the fair use provisions of the copyright law in your country
> > for details on what you can and can't do.
> >
> > As a courtesy, we'd appreciate it if you let folks know how to
> > subscribe to BRC-NEWS, by leaving in the first seven lines of the
> > signature below.]
> >
> > 
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > BRC-NEWS: Black Radical Congress - General News Articles/Reports
> > 
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1495
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-21 20:11:51
Subject:Re: [NB_CC_TF] Fwd: [CoalitionOPRA] Public Housing + NBHA
Message:

kristina-



--- In coalitionforjustice@y..., TRACYFORD1420@W... wrote:
COME HEAR THE VOICE OF TRUTH.
MINISTER TRACY FORD, RADICAL REPUBLICAN REVOLUTIONARY, OF MOUNT CALVARY
BAPTIST CHURCH
150 THROOP AVENUE
NEW BRUNSWICK, NEW JERSEY 08901
732-247-4410
WILL BE PREACHING A POWER, INSPIRATION MESSAGE
"THE MILITANT CHRISTIAN: HOW TO OVERCOME THE DEVIL"
AT TRAVELERS FELLOWSHIP BAPTIST CHURCH
33POPLAR ROAD
PISCATAWAY, NEW JERSEY 08854
732-572-1313
7:00PM, MONDAY, APRIL 23, 2001
--- End forwarded message ---








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1496
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-20 12:56:39
Subject:Fwd: Join CAMP FREE MUMIA May 11-13 in Philadelphia
Message:



>From: iacenter@...
>Reply-To: "activist general1" <iacenter@...>
>To: "activist general1" <iacenter@...>
>Subject: Join CAMP FREE MUMIA May 11-13 in Philadelphia
>Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:10:47 -0400
>
>Join students and activists of all ages and backgrounds as residents of
>CAMP FREE MUMIA in PHILADELPHA from Friday May 11 to
>Sunday May 13 at City Hall.
>
>Preliminary Camp Schedule:
>Friday, May 11: Camp opens 5 pm. Evening: Giant Hip Hop Concert
>Saturday, May 12: March & Rally starting at 1 pm from Philadelphia
>City Hall
>Sunday, May 13: Camp Closing Ceremony: Remember the MOVE
>Bombing
>
>IF YOU PLAN TO PARTICIPATE IN CAMP FREE MUMIA,
>please provide us with the information requested at the end of this
>email.
>
>The purpose of CAMP FREE MUMIA is to draw attention to
>Mumia�s case and to keep the pressure on the system to let our
>brother go. We will camp out in Philadelphia over the second week
>end in May to let the government, the courts, the cops, and the power
>brokers in that city know that the whole world is watching. We will
>live in Philly for a few days to remind the powers that be that people
>are prepared to do what ever is required to free Mumia.
>
>Camp Free Mumia opens on Friday evening May 11. The camp will
>be open all Friday night, all day and night Saturday May 12, and into
>the late afternoon of Sunday May 13. The location of Camp Free
>Mumia is in front of City Hall.
>
>One big reason why the Philadelphia police targeted award-winning
>journalist and political activist Mumia Abu-Jamal was Mumia�s
>defense of the MOVE organization. May 13 marks the 16th
>anniversary of the 1985 infamous bombing and burning of the MOVE
>house by the Philadelphia police. The bombing left 11 people dead
>including five children. On May 12 in commemoration of this
>anniversary, activists and supporters around the world will be
>marching and demonstrating to free Mumia.
>
>Activities at the encampment will include guest speakers, discussion
>groups, workshops, music, and a major demonstration on Saturday
>May 12. You will have a chance to meet and live with activists from
>many different places. Come for the two nights, or for one night, or
>for one day on Saturday May 12 to participate in the demonstration
>planned for that afternoon at City Hall.
>
>Those staying over night should bring a sleeping bag, or a few
>blankets, some warm clothes, and food. Food will also be available at
>the camp. There will be portable toilets, a medical staff and
>volunteers prepared to deal with a variety of needs.
>
>If you plan to participate in Camp Free Mumia, please provide us with
>the following information as soon as possible:
>
>Name of participant(s)
>Organization/Union/School
>Phone
>Email address
>Mailing Address
>
>I/we are joining Camp Free Mumia:
>___ Friday night
>___ Saturday night
>___ Saturday day only
>
>___ I am organizing in my area for Camp Free Mumia.
>___ I/my organization endorse(s) Camp Free Mumia.
>
>Camp Free Mumia c/o
>
>International Action Center
>39 West 14th Street, Room 206
>New York, NY 10011
>email: iacenter@...
>web: http://www.iacenter.org
>CHECK OUT SITE
>    http://www.mumia2000.org
>phone: 212 633-6646
>fax:   212 633-2889

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1497
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-23 10:56:22
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [NB_CC_TF] Fwd: [CoalitionOPRA] Public Housing + NBHA
Message:

yes?


>From: can_bush@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: [NB_CC_TF] Fwd: [CoalitionOPRA] Public Housing + NBHA
>Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:11:51 -0000
>
>kristina-
>
>
>
>--- In coalitionforjustice@y..., TRACYFORD1420@W... wrote:
>COME HEAR THE VOICE OF TRUTH.
>MINISTER TRACY FORD, RADICAL REPUBLICAN REVOLUTIONARY, OF MOUNT CALVARY
>BAPTIST CHURCH
>150 THROOP AVENUE
>NEW BRUNSWICK, NEW JERSEY 08901
>732-247-4410
>WILL BE PREACHING A POWER, INSPIRATION MESSAGE
>"THE MILITANT CHRISTIAN: HOW TO OVERCOME THE DEVIL"
>AT TRAVELERS FELLOWSHIP BAPTIST CHURCH
>33POPLAR ROAD
>PISCATAWAY, NEW JERSEY 08854
>732-572-1313
>7:00PM, MONDAY, APRIL 23, 2001
>--- End forwarded message ---
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1498
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-23 11:12:13
Subject:Giuliani's Indecency Commission
Message:

Interview with Giuliani Decency Commission
Giuliani’s Art Police Are At It Again
He’s at it again. New York City’s self-proclaimed Decency Commissioner,
Rudolph Giuliani, is attacking yet another art venue for daring to express a
viewpoint he doesn’t agree with.
Now it’s the Bronx Museum of the Arts that is feeling the Wrath of 
Giuliani.
This time it has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, the Madonna or the
Last Supper. Criticizing the police has been added to Giuliani’s list of
forbidden subjects for artists and museums.
The great thing about Giuliani is that he never stops giving you evidence of
where he’s coming from or the utter hypocrisy behind it. Last week I had 
an
opportunity to debate the Decency Commission on live radio (1050AM WEVD, the
Alan Colmes Show) with one of its’ members, the Mayor’s divorce 
attorney,
Raoul Felder.
Felder kept insisting that the Commission had nothing to do with censorship
but only with the use of tax dollars to finance art. Then he volunteered 
that
in 1998 he had tried to have a show of my Giuliani portraits closed because
it was located in a Madison Avenue office building where his office is
located. The show was on private property and needless to say received no 
tax
dollars. When Felder came into the show he looked horrified by the paintings
of Giuliani as a dictator and asked me, "Is it legal to show these 
pictures?"
I asked Felder why the Brooklyn Museum couldn’t show art that some people
mistakenly thought was anti-Catholic yet the Museum of Modern Art - which
recieves far more NY City tax dollars than the Brooklyn Museum and all other
NYC museums combined - could show blatantly anti-Catholic works by Salvador
Dali. Felder’s response was that Dali was a famous artist. Such is the
commission’s legal expertise on First Amendment issues.
Felder isn’t the only member of the Decency Commission with a history of
trying to censor art on Giuliani’s behalf.
Daniel Connolly, the Decency Commission's executive director, was Mayor
Giuliani’s NYC corporation Counsel lawyer in charge of all the street 
artist
arrest cases in NYC from 1994 until we won our first lawsuit in 1997. Out of
more than 700 artist arrests not one was ever brought to trial and not more
than a handful of artists ever got their art back. Tens of thousands of 
works
of fine art were confiscated and illegally destroyed as part of the policy.
In a series of memos written at the very start of the policy (which are part
of the legal record) the corporation counsel and the Manhattan District
Attorney’s office wrote that the artist arrest policy was unconstitutional
and that no case could be prosecuted. No case ever was prosecuted yet the
artist arrests continued on a daily basis for four years.
Giuliani went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court to try and stop myself
and other artists from showing art that criticized his policies. In his
appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court, Giuliani wrote:
"An exhibition of paintings is not as communicative as speech, literature or
live entertainment, and the artists' constitutional interest is thus
minimal." -Giuliani appeal brief against street artists having First
Amendment protection, Giuliani v Lederman et al and Giuliani v Bery et al,
filed with the U.S. Supreme Court 2/24/97.
Losing that case didn’t stop the Mayor from trying to keep artists from
showing political art he dissproves of.
Right after losing it Giuliani and his most loyal henchman, Parks
Commissioner Henry Stern, created an artist permit policy that directly
violated the ruling in the previous case. The 2nd circuit ruling gave 
artists
the exact same full First Amendment right as newspaper publishers and book
vendors to distribute, sell or display on New York City streets without a
license or permit.
Aside from the hundreds of book vendors selling within 350 feet of NYC Parks
(which the agency claims as their jurisdiction) you may have noticed the
thousands of metal and plastic distribution boxes located throughout the
City. In these boxes copies of the NY Times, NY Post, Wall Street Journal 
and
other papers are sold and the Village Voice and NY Press among others are
distributed for free.
Not one of these boxes has a permit, pays any fee or needs any permission.
Many are chained to City property - lightpoles, stops signs etc - or are
located next to fire hydrants and other so-called street furniture that
artists are prohibited from being next to.
In our current lawsuit we have documented hundreds of instances where the
Parks Department allows book and newspaper vendors to sell on Parks property
without a permit while arresting artists for doing the exact same thing same
in the exact same location.
The artist permit system for Parks now has it’s own decency panel 
appointed
by the Mayor and Commissioner Stern, which decides which artists are 
suitable
to show their work. The permit system is the subject of an ongoing lawsuit,
Lederman et al v Giuliani, which is currently in Federal court.
When one of the Manhattan Criminal court’s best judges, Lucy Billings,
overturned the artist permit in 1999 because it blatantly violated the NY
State Constitution and New York City law, Giuliani had her removed from the
criminal court.
Recently the Mayor had me arrested for the 41st time outside City Hall for
selling a postcard with his portrait on it based on this same overturned 
law.
Supervising the arrest was his Deputy Mayor Rudy Washington, officers from
the NYPD intelligence division, a lawyer for the NYPD and more than 25
uniformed officers.
This past week I attempted to get Parks Commissioner Stern and various of 
his
aides, including Deputy Commissioner in charge of enforcement Jack Linn and
Parks legal counsel Alexander Oliveri, to state what their current policy 
was
concerning artists and bookvendors. All refused to go on the record as to
what their own legal policy was.
Linn told me, "You’ll have to test us to find out." If they actually 
believe
their policy is legal and constitutional, why keep it a secret? Why do
citizens of New York City have to "test" law enforcement to determine what
the laws are?
Nevertheless, a sgt. in the Parks Enforcement Police (PEP) was far more
forthcoming. "Artists need a permit. Book vendors don’t. We never issue
summonses to book vendors." In the early stages of the lawsuit about this 
the
Mayor’s lawyers were actually lying to the judge, claiming there was a 
book
vendor permit.
In fact, it was then City Council member Henry Stern himself who had helped
eliminate the book vendor license requirement decades previously based on it
being a violation of the U.S. Constitution’s First Amendment.
Times change and so did onetime liberal Henry Stern. The Department of Parks
is now a hotbed of racial profiling, corruption and violations of free
speech. Stern is being investigated for shaking down charities for
exhorbitant "donations" and is being sued by members of his own agency for
racial predjudice.
Long before the Mayor began picking on museums (other than the ones his
contributors own like the Museum of Modern Art) he was actively censoring
political art. This had nothing whatsoever to do with tax dollars and
everything to do with his fear of allowing New Yorkers to see art that he
finds embarrassing.
As a futher example of the absurdity of this Decency Commission being based
on the use of tax dollars consider this. When it comes to tax dollars being
used to subsidize political speech in New York City we need look no further
than the City’s mainstream newspapers. Between them they’ve recieved
hundreds of millions of dollars in tax subsidies from Rudy Giuliani.
The only thing a Decency Commission needs to look into in New York is the
Giuliani Administration itself.
Street artist lawsuits involving Giuliani
Lederman et al v Giuliani (The ongoing Parks Department lawsuit and related
matters of censorship and false arrest)
98 Civ. 2024 (LMM)
http://www.openair.org/alerts/artist/nyc.html
titled
New legal complaint filed in Federal Court against Mayor Giuliani. Details
the charges of constitutional violations (9/5/98)
The earlier case we already won is at the same site under
Street artists are legal: Entire text of the Bery decision of the U.S. Court
of Appeals for the Second Circuit (Argued: April 26, 1996 Decided: October
10, 1996) Lederman at al v City of NY; Bery et al v City of NY
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
FOR THE SECOND CIRCUIT
Nos. 1620, 1621, 1782 August Term 1995
(Argued: April 26, 1996 Decided: October 10, 1996)
Docket Nos. 95-9089 (L), 95-9131, 96-7137
The Federal case regarding leafleting on the steps of the US Capitol that I
won last year and that the Feds lost on appeal this year (I was arrested
giving out leaflets about Giuliani persecuting artists)
Lederman v United States of America et al 99-3359 [1]
is at
http://www.openair.org/alerts/artist/nyc.html
NYC Artist Wins Federal Suit Against U.S. Gov't (3/15/2000)
and updated at
http://baltech.org/lederman/
under the title
Artist wins latest round in DC Federal Court (3-07-01)
For numerous detailed articles about the Giuliani Decency Commission; GW 
Bush
and Giuliani’s Nazi connection; the CIA’s Manhattan Institute; eugenics
(scientific racism); and West Nile Virus information see
http://baltech.org/lederman/
(for earlier West Nile Virus articles)
http://www.levymultimedia.com/lederman/index.htm
Street artist information
http://www.openair.org/alerts/artist/nyc.html
Robert Lederman, President of A.R.T.I.S.T.
(Artists’ Response To Illegal State Tactics)
ARTISTpres@...
robert.lederman@...
(718) 743-3722


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Post ID:1499
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-19 16:26:31
Subject:[Solidarity_in_Struggle] May 1st Rally
Message:


It is time to make our voices heard on a national scale.  The rest of
the country needs to know that we are not going to live in a racist
society.  In order to make our point heard, we need this May Day rally
to go down at colleges all over, along with press releases and
basically as much media coverage as we can garner.

It is time to put an end to these racist ideas which inevitably
culminate in violence and brutality, racist ideas which are currently
upheld by nearly every institution in the country (i.e. the
educational system, healthcare system, justice system, to name a few).

It is time to break the bubble created by the segregation in our
society, to shatter the imaginary glass wall that separates people of
different skin color-- a glass wall forged by ignorance, a glass wall
which those in power believe will protect their status by preventing
one unifying movement against injustice.  How do we fight back against
racism, against the ignorance that divides human beings?  By raising
our voices, and letting the truth be known.  It is time to unite.


I could use help in contacting other universities... at this point
there is no central way for activists from different schools to
communicate with each other so it's been difficult.  So if any of you
belong to groups that have sister organizations at other schools,
please contact them.  They can e-mail missfitz@... with
any questions.


Let's do this!

Megan Fitzgerald


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Post ID:1500
Sender:"JOSEPH MOSLEY" <joemosley1@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-24 12:46:24
Subject:Fwd: [instantrunoff] IRV FAQ
Message:



>From: JoeMosley@...
>To: joemosley1@...
>Subject: Fwd: [gpnj-members] Fwd: ASGP-COO FW: [instantrunoff] IRV FAQ
>Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:13:51 EST
>
>
>
>  >X-Plug: http://www.greens.org/gis/
>  >
>  >This is really good. Should help us all in our efforts to educate others 
>and ourselves on this vital issue. John
>  >
>  >----------
>  >From: "Nathaniel Krause" <nate@...>
>  >To: instantrunoff@egroups.com
>  >Subject: [instantrunoff] IRV FAQ
>  >Date: Sat, Jan 13, 2001, 7:29 PM
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >This is the FAQ from instantrunoff.com.  I am posting it for public
>  >comment.  Are there any other questions which are frequently asked
>  >and which you would like to see addressed?  Contact me
>  >(nate@...).
>  >
>  >1. WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGES OF INSTANT RUNOFF VOTING FOR THE AVERAGE
>  >VOTER?
>  >
>  >1. Instant Runoff Voting would restore a basic principle of
>  >democracy: majority rule. Far too often our federal, state, and local
>  >governments are filled with people elected with less than 50% of the
>  >vote. What this means, in essence, is that most voters involved voted
>  >against them.  Bill Clinton was twice elected president by a minority
>  >vote and now George W. Bush has too; whether they would have won in a
>  >runoff is unclear.  IRV requires all winners to be majority winners.
>  >
>  >2. IRV will put more choices on the ballot.   IRV will avoid the
>  >pitfalls of the wasted-vote and spoiler syndromes and it will
>  >increase the visibility of third parties. This will make it much more
>  >likely that elections will have more than two candidates on the
>  >ballot, and that the media will treat them as three-way races.  The
>  >end result will be more choices for the voter.
>  >
>  >3. Elections will be less negative, more issue-oriented, and based
>  >around coalition-building. Elections with three or four contenders
>  >tend to be less prone to negative mudslinging than two-way races. The
>  >purpose of negative advertising is to convince people not to vote for
>  >an opponent. In a two-way race this is very effective, because the
>  >targeted voters are likely to move over to the mudslinger's side. But
>  >in a multiple-candidate race they are more likely to take some third
>  >option, making mudslinging much less effective. The only way to
>  >succeed in a race against several opponents is to make a positive
>  >case for oneself, and this will make it more likely that campaigns
>  >will focus on the issues. Furthermore, candidates in an IRV election
>  >will be campaigning not only for first-choice votes, but also for the
>  >second-choice votes of their opponent's supporters. Under the present
>  >system, if a candidate knows that you're going to vote for someone
>  >else, he will write you off.   But, under IRV, he will still be
>  >courting you for your second- or third-choice votes, which may prove
>  >crucial to the candidate's chances of winning.  Because of this,
>  >candidates will focus on building a broad and inclusive coalition and
>  >reaching out to a variety of voters.
>  >
>  >2. WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGES OF INSTANT RUNOFF VOTING FOR SUPPORTERS OF
>  >THIRD PARTIES?
>  >
>  >1. Voters will no longer have reason to vote for the "lesser-of-two-
>  >evils."  Potential third-party voters frequently wrestle with their
>  >enthusiasm for the principles of a third party on the one hand, and,
>  >on the other, their desire to keep a particularly-hated Democrat or
>  >Republican out of office; too many choose the latter and vote for
>  >a "lesser-of-two-evils." The trouble is that this prevents some
>  >candidates from even getting off the ground. IRV does away with this
>  >problem by allowing a voter to rank all candidates in order of
>  >preference. Thus, a conservative, for instance, who wants to help
>  >defeat a liberal Democratic incumbent could rank a US Taxpayers
>  >candidate "#1" and the Republican challenger "#2;" or some other
>  >candidate as "#2" and the Republican as "#3."
>  >
>  >2. Voters will no longer worry about "wasting votes" on a third
>  >party. Some voters feel that a vote is wasted if it doesn't go to a
>  >Democrat or Republican. It isn't that they hate outsiders -- in fact,
>  >polls show that 67% of Americans want a third party -- but usually
>  >because they are concerned about electing a "greater-of-two-evils."
>  >Because IRV allows a voter to rank each candidate, they can safely
>  >rank Green or Libertarian #1 without fear that their vote will be
>  >wasted.
>  >
>  >3. Third party candidates will no longer worry about
>  >becoming "spoilers" or being perceived as such. As with conventional
>  >runoffs, an IRV election is not over until one candidate has a
>  >majority of the votes. For this reason, third parties never need to
>  >worry about being labelled as "spoilers" who force the election of an
>  >unpopular candidate. Two examples from alternative parties will
>  >illustrate the problems this can cause: in the 1994 election for
>  >governor of Alaska, the conservative Alaskan Independence Party
>  >received 13% of the vote, which is pretty good, but it threw the
>  >election to the Democrat who receieved only 41%, which is probably
>  >not what they had in mind. The same year in New Mexico, the Green
>  >Party received 11% of the vote for governor, but it threw the
>  >election to a Republican who received under 50% of the vote. In
>  >neither case did the voters get what they wanted and asked for.  IRV
>  >completely rids us of this problem.
>  >
>  >4.  The presence of a third-party candidate might even boost the
>  >chances of a major party candidate. In a race between a moderate-
>  >liberal Democrat and a Republican, a left-wing Labor Party candidate
>  >could help the Democrat by energizing liberals and bringing them to
>  >the polls. Once there, the liberals' second choice votes can decide
>  >the election. And the same could work for Republicans and
>  >conservative third parties. Over time, this might mean better chances
>  >of legislation, such as ballot access reform, favorable to third
>  >parties, and inclusion of third party candidates in debates.
>  >Probably, the big two parties will always regard third parties as
>  >threats, but at least, with IRV, this will be tempered by their self-
>  >interest.
>  >
>  >3. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "PLULARITY ELECTIONS"?
>  >
>  >"Plurality elections" is what we call the current election system:
>  >everyone votes for one choice, and whichever candidate gets the most
>  >votes wins--not a majority of votes, just the most.  The vote total
>  >may be more or less than 50%. A lot of people think conventional
>  >plurality elections are the epitome of the democratic principle of
>  >majority rule. The problem is that pluralities aren't always
>  >majorities; sometimes they're minorities. Therefore, plurality
>  >elections can sometimes mean minority rule.  It's not a good voting
>  >system.
>  >
>  >  4. WHY NOT JUST USE TWO-ROUND RUNOFF ELECTION?
>  >
>  >Instant Runoff Voting has many of the advantages of a conventional
>  >two-round runoff, but is superior in several ways. As an example,
>  >take the 1992 election for US Senator in Georgia. Because Libertarian
>  >candidate Larry Hudson received more than 3% of the vote, neither his
>  >Democratic nor his Republican opponent had a majority. State law
>  >required a conventional runoff, which was a good thing because the
>  >incumbent Democrat had been leading in the first round but was
>  >narrowly defeated in the second. One could conjecture that this was
>  >because the Republican was the second choice of most Libertarians.
>  >But there were downsides to this runoff: the second round was an
>  >additional expense to candidates and to the public. Voter turnout
>  >dropped dramatically. Candidates had to continue their campaigns and
>  >expenditures for another few weeks. All of these negative effects
>  >could be remedied by using Instant Runoff Voting. 1. IRV is cheaper
>  >for the public. IRV elections occur all on one day, so the taxpayer
>  >does not have to pay to open the polls twice. 2. IRV is cheaper for
>  >the candidates. Two-round elections require additional weeks of
>  >campaigning and this requires more money. This is a especially
>  >problematic for underfunded challengers coming from outside the
>  >establishment. 3. IRV increases voter turnout. Abundant historical
>  >evidence shows that the second round of a two-round runoff almost
>  >always has lower voter turnout. This is particularly unfortunate
>  >because it is at the second round that the final winner is actually
>  >decided. 4. Standard runoffs usually eliminate all but the top two
>  >candidates right after the first round (and thus always takes no more
>  >than two rounds). On the other hand, IRV eliminates only the
>  >candidate with the current lowest vote count each round (and thus can
>  >take several rounds). This makes IRV superior for races in which
>  >there are more than three serious candidates, as is often the case in
>  >party primaries. Consider the 1981 Democratic primary for mayor of
>  >New York, which was held as a two-round runoff. The top two
>  >candidates in the first round, who went on to the second round, were
>  >Ed Koch with 22% of the vote and Mario Cuomo with 20% of the vote.
>  >Even combined, they got less than half the vote! Had IRV been used,
>  >the candidates would have been eliminated one-by-one, and their
>  >supporters' votes transferred. Potentially, a third candidate could
>  >have moved ahead and won the nomination.
>  >
>  >5. IS INSTANT RUNOFF VOTING A FORM OF PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION?
>  >
>  >No, but it's part of the same family of election reforms.
>  >Proportional representation (PR) is an election system that provides
>  >minority represenation with majority rule for a legislative body,
>  >like Congress, your state legislature, County Board or Village
>  >Commissioners. Instant Runoff Voting is for races for only one
>  >office, like President, Mayor and Governor.  Supporters of PR should
>  >support IRV because it is a stepping stone to PR.  Some forms of PR
>  >also use a system of ranked votes, therefore IRV can be seen as a
>  >form of voter education leading towards PR.
>  >
>  >6. WHEN AND WHERE HAS INSTANT RUNOFF VOTING BEEN USED?
>  >
>  >IRV was invented in the United States in the 1870's by a professor at
>  >MIT.  It is used in Ireland to elect their president and other
>  >officials, in Australia to elect their Senate, in London, UK for
>  >Mayor and in America to elect the president of the American Political
>  >Science Association. It was also used in several U.S. states for
>  >partisan primaries in the 1910's and 1920's and in the 1970's in Ann
>  >Arbor, Michigan.  The Reform Party also uses it to nominate their
>  >candidate for President (they only had 2 candidates in 2000, so they
>  >didn't need IRV).  It is being heavily considered for use in Vermont,
>  >Alaska, New Mexico and in some local elections in Washington and
>  >California.  To learn more about these state efforts, click here.
>  >
>  >7. ISN'T THIS TOO CONFUSING FOR VOTERS?
>  >
>  >IRV asks the voters to rank the candidates in order of preference: 1,
>  >2, 3, 4, etc.  You can argue until you're blue in the face, but THAT
>  >IS NOT HARD TO DO.  1,2,3.  How hard is that?  If a voter wants to do
>  >it the old way, they can rank one candidate "#1" and walk out, but
>  >they probably will not want to do so, because their voice is more
>  >fully heard when they rank the candidates.  Voters in Ireland,
>  >Australia and London, England all use IRV and we're not dumber than
>  >they are, are we?
>  >
>  >After the 2000 Florida Presidential fiasco, a lot of you may be
>  >saying, "well, IRV is easy for me to understand, but there's
>  >obviously some people out there who aren't that bright."  WRONG.
>  >People are not that stupid.  The main problem (among many others) in
>  >Florida was two-pronged: 1) the voting equipment couldn't count, and
>  >2) the form of the ballot design (mostly the 'butterfly' punch card
>  >system) was visually designed in a confusing manner.  In other words,
>  >what confused folks was how the election was delivered to the voters,
>  >not that the voters themselves were so dense in the head they didn't
>  >understand the concept of how to vote.
>  >
>  >A well designed ballot, good equipment that can count and a
>  >rudimentary public information campaign effort is all that is needed
>  >to carry-out a smooth IRV election--the voters will understand and
>  >love it, because it's really "as easy as 1, 2, 3."
>  >
>  >8. CAN OUR VOTING EQUIPMENT HANDLE IRV?
>  >
>  >Good question.  In some places, yes; in some, no.   Optical scan
>  >sheets could be designed to use IRV and more advanced touch-screens
>  >could easily incorporate IRV or even other fancy voting schemes.
>  >Believe it or not, even the punch card system could be designed to
>  >support IRV.   It would be ugly, but possible.   You may want to have
>  >post-vote verification machines handy so the voter can verify their
>  >ballot was punched properly, but we should have those anyways.
>  >
>  >Since we're on the subject, this issue of voting equipment is
>  >obviously a hot topic these days, again, because of Florida.  One
>  >effect of the Supreme Court ruling in Bush v Gore is that the Equal
>  >Protection Clause may require more uniformity in voting equipment
>  >across a state.   Many voting districts, and maybe whole states, will
>  >be investing in new equipment in the next year or so.  Now is the
>  >time for concerned citizens to ask their voting officials to not only
>  >improve the equipment, but make sure the equipment is capable of
>  >handling all types of voting schemes, like IRV or other Proportional
>  >Representation methods.
>  >
>  >Yes.  Voting equipment is a hurdle for IRV, but now's the best time
>  >in decades to make the right change.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >Kill the 'wasted vote' syndrome by ranking candidates (1, 2, 3) and
>  >requiring a majority of votes to win.
>  >
>  >To subscribe: instantrunoff-subscribe@egroups.com
>  >
>  >For more information: www.fairvote.org, www.midwestdemocracy.org,
>  >www.prairienet.org/icpr, www.instantrunoff.com
>  >
>  >MAKE YOUR VOTE COUNT!
>
>
>  To manage your subscription to this list or read the message archives,
>click: http://www.egroups.com/group/gpnj-members/
>  (Note: GPNJ does not approve, endorse, or benefit from eGroups 
>advertising.)
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1501
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-24 14:01:48
Subject:Fwd: [coalitionforjustice] Richard Barrett in Cincinnati
Message:



>From: dlj@...
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Richard Barrett in Cincinnati
>Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:39:17 -0000
>
>As if the problem in Cincinnati is not bad enough, Richard Barrett of
>the Nationalist Movement came here to show his support for the local
>police. He held a little conference at the Police Memorial where he
>laid a wreath in memory of the officers who died in the line of duty.
>Here's the fun part. Originally he was to hold his confernce at city
>hall, but UPON SUGGESTION BY POLICE OFFICERS moved to the memorial,
>which is just outside the police station. Cincy Fraternal Order of
>Police head Keith Fangman, who a few days ago was taking shots at
>Kwesi Mfume for being an "outsider", thanked and applauded Barrett
>after his remarks!
>
>To that end there are going to be some very angry people at the City
>Council meeting on Wednesday at 2PM. They want Fangman and the Cincy
>police to do some explaining. White supremacist groups are making a
>pilgrimage to Cincy, and if this is what to expect from our police,
>brace yourselves. If you know anyone in the area that can go and
>speak out, let them know about this.
>
>DLJ
>

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Post ID:1502
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-24 15:44:28
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re:
Message:

howard, you should be in the coalition for justice egroups site.

joe


>From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>, <njfo@egroups.com>
>CC: <senormart@...>, <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>, 
><jeanross55@...>, <sisterhoodNstruggle1@...>, 
><tamaradahan@...>, <nita_08901@...>, 
><breakingchains@...>, <sherryRT@...>
>Subject: [nbpc] Re:
>Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 00:31:04 -0400
>
>Platform Committee Recommendations to the CFJ  re upcoming Sat Meeting
>4-21-2001
>
>We have at least 2 main responsibilities:
>A. Build the case for the 9 Demands as they have been stated publicly and
>discussed in the media. By build is meant detail of rationale, specifics of
>structure, and defining more exactly what we mean -- all of this so that 
>the
>CFJ `negotiating' team has as much pertinent information as possible to 
>make
>the case for each demand.
>B. Where possible for the May 16th March/Protest, restate our 9 Demands and
>expand them without losing the essential demands'  focus -- for example
>including Cliff's stated Point 1 as part of Demand 4; Cliff's point 2 as an
>element under Demand 2 and Demand 3 for pursuit by the Independent
>Prosecutor as we expand the definition of `racial' profiling to mean any
>kind of prejudicial profiling.
>
>Expanding on our committee responsibilities, please give me your thoughts 
>on
>the following:
>
>A. Demand 1 -- Are we in agreement with the structure and powers of the
>proposed independent civilian-controlled police control board? You have the
>essentials in the packet I gave out Sat 4-14-01. If you want the entire
>beast let me know and I'll email the 30+ pages to you. Cliff, your
>recommendation for residency requirements is a good one which we should ask
>the CFJ to push as we push for the CCPCB -- and it doesn't have to wait on
>the CCPCB struggle. Perhaps it fits logically under Demand 8  -- Hiring of
>more minority officers; also your other part of comment 3 falls within the
>essentials of the CCPCB proposal.
>A. Demand 2 -- Independent Prosecutor -- To be either popularly elected
>ASAP, or selected by lottery from four candidates selected one each from 
>the
>ACLU-NJ, NAACP-NJ, NJ Bar Assn, and the Urban League. These are highly
>respected, national type organizations (every state has their own bar
>association --- perhaps we need a state-wide Hispanic-representing
>organization to offer a candidate prosecutor?
>A. Demand 3 -- Legislation re racial profiling to be expanded to 
>prejudicial
>profiling as I defined in one of Sat's handouts. If you want to improve the
>definition of prejudicial profiling let me know. The basic idea is that no
>one should be treated unfairly for any reason or nonreason. Justification
>for detrimental treatment must be obvious.
>A. Demand 4 -- Reopening of police brutality cases -- we need to raise the
>question to the CFJ if we mean the ca. 30 people who have been KILLED by
>police in NJ during the past 10 years under `suspicious' circumstances -
>about 27 cases of which are briefly documented in the book `Stolen Lives.'
>How about the perhaps hundreds of cases of police brutality that did not
>result in death of the victim? Do we demand that all of these cases be
>reopened --- and reopened by the Indep Prosecutor?
>I say YES! If you agree, someone will need to survey the NJ populace and
>really interview/document those who have been PHYSICALLY injured, as
>starters. Those who have been insulted via prejudicial profiling is another
>massive endeavor. Do we recommend this to the CFJ for longer term followup?
>A, Demand 5 -- Verniero et al we've covered. For the first round of Demands
>I recommend that we include Poritz and Whitman. The Independent Prosecutor
>should be pressed to pursue the entire StatePolice chain-of-command 
>involved
>in this highway racial profiling [civil rights + violations]. Longer term,
>pursue this same issue in local police agencies.
>A. Demand 6 -- Hogan and Kenna . This is clear and specific
>A. Demand 7 -- Racial bias and BRUTALITY history/tendency testing. Was
>candidate a high school bully; does the candidate have a history of
>torturing or killing animals, abusing others?
>A. Demand 8 and 9 -- Hiring and promoting of more minority officers. We 
>need
>to demand objective standards for promotion set by an `outside' auditing
>board that will provide continuing oversight of the processes of hiring and
>promotion evaluation.
>If the standards and implementation are fair, the selection process should
>be based simply on merit. As with medical personnel, we want the best for
>these life-and-death decisions selected on the basis of competence. Lemme
>know if you disagree.
>
>B. Longer term -- Items 4 (direct elections), 5 (reparations), 7 and 8 of
>Cliff's notes need to be presented to the CFJ for consideration and
>prioritization assuming the CFJ will expand its social-economic-political
>thrust.Each of these pusuits will call for dynamic committees and liason
>with existing organizations. Item 6 in Cliff's notes I personally still
>can't agree with -- it's too broad brush for me especially since I don't
>know if there are decent Republicans in the legislature like Gormley
>perhaps. I suggest we attack the issues and support those who we as
>individuals feel are worthy of our vote -- as an organization we should not
>endorse or oppose a party. Let's educate the populace objectively and
>PASSIONATELY and have faith that they'll vote for justice. I fully support 
>a
>presentation by Cliff or anyone to the CFJ of differing views.
>
>In addition, we need to add to our list of possible suggestions to the CFJ
>for After-May 16 consideration --
>
>-- Death Penalty moratorium and elimination
>-- Essential health and civil rights for prisoners, including review of NJ
>prison labor procedures, parole for non-violent prisoners, job training and
>employment assistance for parolees -- and all indigent so that they do not
>have to go to prison to obtain necessary education and employment
>assistance.
>-- A Freedom of Information Act worthy of the name. This would help prevent
>a lot of corrupt practices. Belive it or not, Florida has a highly reputed
>FOIA. We could readily get guidance from the ACLU and the existing NJ bill
>on this subject.
>-- Welfare -- the Clinton Welfare DEFORM Act of 1996 is wreaking havoc 
>among
>much of the chronically poor. Infant mortality, INFANTICIDE BY GOVERNMENT
>EDICT AND NEGLECT, has risen. The crunch will become even more severe in 
>the
>next 2 years as the 5 year lifetime limit on welfare occurs for many poor
>families. What then for these folks? Particularly given the economic
>downturn which will mean reduced welfare possibilities for the neediest.
>What's our plan to protect the present and soon to be helpless?
>-- Living Wage not Minimum Wage -- You'll see info on this in the packet I
>gave at last Sat's meeting.
>
>Who wants to speak to the CFJ group on what subjects? I believe I can 
>handle
>Demands 1 and 2 -- CCPCB and Independent Prosecutor and perhaps anything
>else that no one else picks. Please feel free to add comments AFTER the
>presenter's comments.Summarize your recommendations and rationales for CFJ
>action. We may be lucky to get 5 minutes per subject. At this point we want
>to elicit comments and ideas in addition to our own, and come back on the
>April 28 with a better consensus set of short and long term positions and
>plans.
>
>Let us all know what you all think, ASAP. Think or Sink!
>
>Blessings.
>Howard
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>To: <njfo@egroups.com>
>Cc: <senormart@...>; <nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>;
><howardnelson@...>; <jeanross55@...>;
><sisterhoodNstruggle1@...>; <tamaradahan@...>;
><nita_08901@...>; <breakingchains@...>;
><sherryRT@...>
>Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 7:19 PM
>
>
> > Date:  Sun Apr 15, 2001 7:09pm
> >                  Subject:  platform committee discussion
> >                            coalition for justice
> >                            march on trenton, may 16
> >
> >                  the meeting of the platform committee, sunday 1pm, new
> > brunswick, centered around developing and expanding the scope of the 
>March
> > platform  , its program and demands, in order to strengthen our base,
>build
> > broader unity, reflect developments in the campaign, and better address
>the
> > issues within their national & historic context.
> >
> >                  our general agreements were that a "broad, not narrow"
> > vision would better organize our different communities toward the
>necessary
> > elimination of police abuses, rather than merely replacing this or that
> > figurehead.
> >
> >                  further, that we need to address our issues in how they
> > exist in political reality, and finally, on what happens to our 
>developing
> > movement beyond the march.
> >
> >                  1. the call for verniero's immediate removal must be
> > expanded to demand the sworn-in investigation of former gov. whitman,
>former
> > ag poritz, and  the entire hierarchy of the state police.  these people
>all
> > were involved in the policy of profiling & abuse, and its cover-up.
> >
> >                  2. the issue of police abuses of women must be 
>prominent
>in
> > our program.  this is a well-documented trend in nj, but has been
> > conspicuously absent from any outcry.  we point to repeated instances of
> > sexual harrassment/assault in police stops, police involvement in
> > prostitution/sex-slavery, police violence toward their domestic 
>partners,
> > and harrassment/abuse of female police including female troopers.
> >
> >                  3. the "review board w/ subpoena & disciplinary powers"
>is
> > better named an elected, civilian, police-control board.  the point is, 
>do
> > the police control the community, or does the community control the
>police?
> > only by placing the police under direct control of the community (not
>merely
> > review!), will abuses be eliminated.
> >
> >                  further, there must be residency requirements and open
> > files on all police officers.
> >
> >                  4. the question of community control and democracy also
> > must include the direct election (& immediate recall) of all state
>officials
> > with positions of authority.  including judges, prosecutors, & police
> > chiefs.  if we could vote verniero out, we wouldn't be caught in a
> > republican legislative obstacle course.
> >
> >                  5. we must understand, and state openly, that police
>abuses
> > are a result of social inequalities.  that no amount of reform within 
>the
> > police will eliminate abuses if general social inequality continues.  
>that
> > is, e.g., street crime is a product of poverty & oppression.  until 
>these
> > conditions are eliminated, police will always "profile" "criminals", 
>while
> > claiming to protect & serve.
> >
> >                     we must put forward the democratic calls for
>reparations
> > and self-determination for all oppressed peoples.  in this way to
>eliminate
> > social inequality, and with it, social abuses.  one
> > practical example would be free education for all blacks,  latinos,
> > and women in new jersey.
> >
> >                  6. that our program must openly target the republican
>party
> > as the most dangerous, most aggressive advocate of profiling & police
>abuse.
> > these actions are most openly encouraged by republican party operatives
>and
> > policies.  whitman got promoted after(!) being exposed in profiling
> > "pat-down" (or was that her initiation?).  we must defeat defransesco in
> > november and all republicans!
> >
> >                  7. that francis lawrence, president of the state
>university
> > (rutgers) must be removed for classifying black people as "genetically
> > inferior".  this anti-scientific, backward claim, by the head of the
>state's
> > highest, public, educational institution provided ideological support, a
> > lynch-mentality, for any racist thug cop.
> >
> >                  8. that after the march we must meet immediately to
>assess
> > our successes & failures, criticize our errors, and learn lessons to 
>build
> > on.  we should seek to unite our forces with all progressive forces in 
>nj
> > toward building a broad, democratic, peoples' united front to fight all
> > social problems toward building a peoples' democratic workers' party.
> >
> >                     And finally, that we should plan to hold a
> > conference/summit in the fall, before the election, to develop and 
>advance
> > our organization.
> >
> >                  we welcome all criticisms, suggestions, concerns, &tc.
> > toward this.
> >
> >                  defeat racist/sexist profiling & police abuse!
> >
> >                  cliff smith
> >                  platform committee
> >                  732.214.8828
> >                  cliffsmith69@...
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1503
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-21 20:01:32
Subject:Re: [nbpc] VOTE YES - Elected School Board
Message:

good point re: faculty & staff.

the "no politics" group are democrats.  mcgreasy, if he wants to win, takes 
a big gamble to allow distractions from defeating the republicans.

which we revolutionary democracy-ites also need to do, as we build the 
peoples' democratic workers' party.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] VOTE YES - Elected School Board
>Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:32:26
>
>
>
>Joe makes a very good argument here for joining forces around the elected
>school board question.  I would only add two points:
>1. Along with mobilizing the youth, it is essential to make inroads with 
>the
>teachers and staff workers within the school system.  It seems that this 
>has
>consistantly been this campaign's weekest link.
>2. Don't underestimate the city's determination and ability to fight the
>referendum, regardless of common push for McGreesy...that's what their
>'independant' Committee to Keep (People's) Politics out of Our Schools is
>for.
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith"
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] VOTE YES - Elected School Board
>Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:06:24 -0400
>to address flavio's question and to open up the discussion...
>the school board question is a good discussion. why should it be run '01,
>specifically addressing it in the context of the '00 campaign?
>1. the people of new brunswick need and want us to work on winning an
>elected school board. the top result of our 1000 surveys is community
>control over education, so it is our responsiblity to work towards that 
>goal
>given every opportunity. the community will fully embrace our efforts and
>therefor build our organization along the lines of democratic community
>control.
>2. working on the elected school board campaign will pull together all
>of our forces. differences will be argued out in practice through a united
>fashion. currently differences amongst activists are not moving anything
>forward, and the peoples' struggles are not being embraced properly.
>3. in light of the recently released standardized test results new 
>brunswick
>ranks as the worst education system in the county. the only appointed 
>school
>board in the county has the worst education results. that would be big in
>our effort as to expose the appointed board as incompetent, even in the 
>eyes
>of its supporters.
>4. there is no other local campaigns, ie. city council or mayor, so our
>campaign along with the governors race would be the only items on the
>ballot. the city will not be out in full force trying to knock our teeth
>down our throats. this has many benifits and no downfalls:
>I. no confusion amongst voters. only two things for us to explain
>one - vote yes elected school board
>two - vote mcgreasy
>the city would have to work real hard to explain vote no, vote
>mcgreasy.
>II. the democratic city machine will not be allowed to fight us as
>we will be working to defeat the republican candidate for
>governor. mcgreasy can't afford to fight on both fronts, his
>campaign must win and in order to win they must put all their
>energy and resources into defeating the republican candidate.
>(nbpc better work with mcgreasy to defeat the republicans)the
>state democratic apparatus might just hand us the elected school
>board to get us to work harder for mcgreasy, they can't afford
>to lose. thus making this a golden opportunity to win the
>campaign, to not run it would be a tremendous error.
>III. next year 2002 will be a mayoral election as well as two city
>council seats, if we win the elected school board this year,
>it would legitamize any candidates we would run for mayor and
>city council. the campaign for the elected school board would
>be the initial step for our campaign for mayor and city
>council. and even if we lose, it is necessary to keep the
>community and organizers focused on electoral campaigns as the
>way to build.
>IV. how would it look in the democratic county seat if the
>democratic city machine defeated our campaign for an elected
>school board, but mcgreasy lost his campaign for governor. i
>will emphasize, they can't allow that to happen!
>5. we must organize our base back with the youth and get them back
>into organizing in their city. this is an invaluable development of
>the campaign. there was nothing better in last year's campaign then
>the city's youth involvement. and there is no better way to organize
>amongst NB youth then working on a issue that affects them all, their
>schools.
>6. nbpc will only have to gather 1400 petition signatures, i will turn in
>the other 1400. it can be done by august at the rate of 88 signatures a 
>week
>beginning in may. that would break down to - worst case - 8 people from 
>nbpc
>get 11 signatures each, and 8 people from SWORD get 11 signatures each a
>week. but these petitions will go must faster as we already have names and
>addresses of those that signed last year, as well as all those we 
>registered
>to vote last year (these
>would also be valuble resources to have fresh for next years campaign)
>7. if the campaign for an elected school board is run and nbpc does
>not work on it....
>joe smith
> >From: Groovemeister007@... Reply-To:
> >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Reparations and Self-determination Date: Mon, 16 Apr
> >2001 21:39:25 -0000
> >
> >(speaking for myself and not as campaign GC)
> >
> >Joe:
> >
> >I am sorry for the misattribution as to who posted the bigoted Baraka 
>poem.
> >However, I am concerned that you did not join my criticism of bigotry. Do
> >you think Baraka's thoughts as expressed in the poem are valid? Do you
> >think Jim's comments are justified?
> >
> >As for your point about Frank: he supports an elected resident on the
> >housing authority and it was he who introduced a well-written resolution 
>to
> >urge compliance with that which will be voted upon at the next NBHA
> >meeting. What's more, he was the only commissioner to vote against the
> >monumental mistakes that the NBHA is committing with regard to its
> >contracts with TCB. Whatever I may think of Republicans, I do not view
> >Frank's work as the actions of a "theif" [sic] or an enemy of public
> >housing residents.
> >
> >Finally, I have not decided one way or the other on the question of the
> >elected school board campaign. I am interested in hearing your views of 
>the
> >question of why it should be run again in 2001, specifically addressing 
>it
> >in the context of the 2000 campaign. Also, what are your views on whether 
>a
> >referendum for a ward-based instead of at-large council should be run in
> >2001, in addition to or instead of the elected school board question.
> >
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" wrote: > i did not post the
> >poem by baraka, cliff did. but as far as the spirit of > the campaign, i
> >would like an explaination as to why you are not "entirely > outraged" 
>that
> >bright is a theif that stole what belongs to the people of > public
> >housing. why is it that flavio is always buddying up to him, rather > 
>than
> >being "entirely outraged". who are our friends and who are our > enemies?
> >nbpc is more allied with republicans than the tenants of public > 
>housing.
> >under these relations, the more nbpc works to destabalize the > 
>democratic
> >machine, the more nbpc will strenghten the republican machine. > > i 
>can't
> >relate to your outrage flavio, because you can really care less > about 
>the
> >people of new brunswick and the activists fighting for democratic >
> >community control. this will play out when nbpc votes not to work on the 
> >
> >elected school board campaign april 28. > > joe > >
> >_________________________________________________________________ > Get
> >your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>To Post a message, send it to: nbpeoplescampaign@...
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>_________________________________________________________________
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>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1504
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-26 09:57:52
Subject:[coalitionforjustice] ACLU Press Release 04-24-01 -- Two Supreme Court Rulings Expand Police Powers a
Message:

check out this article below and remember, bush2 hasn't even made his 
appointment yet. joe


From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
To: <poprogress@egroups.com>, <coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [coalitionforjustice] ACLU Press Release 04-24-01 -- Two upreme 
Court Rulings Expand Police Powers a
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 05:19:27 -0400

ACLU Press Release: 04-24-01 -- Two Supreme Court Rulings Expand Police
Powers and Limit Civil Rights Enforcement

  Two Supreme Court Rulings Expand Police Powers and
  Limit Civil Rights Enforcement
  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
  Tuesday, April 24, 2001


   WASHINGTON--In a narrow 5-4 ruling, the U.S. Supreme Court today aid that 
people stopped for minor offenses punishable only by a fine, suh as not 
using seatbelts or jaywalking, can be subject to a full-scalepolice arrest 
including handcuffs, booking and jail.

   A divided court also made it harder to enforce the nation's civil rights 
laws, ruling that any recipients of federal funding, including states, 
schools and colleges, may not be sued for policies that have a 
discriminatory effect on blacks, Latinos or other minorities.

   The American Civil Liberties Union, which filed friend-of-the-court 
briefs in both cases, called the rulings a blow to civil liberties and 
warned that the decisions may have dire consequences for the nation�s people 
of color.

   �In one fell swoop, the Court has both increased the potential for racial 
profiling and diminished 30 years of civil rights law designed to protect 
victims of discrimination,� said Steven R. Shapiro, legal director of the 
ACLU.

   At issue in the police arrest case, Atwater v. Lago Vista, No. 99-1948, 
was whether someone who is charged with a misdemeanor that is punishable 
only by a fine, not jail time, could be arrested and jailed prior to 
conviction at the sole discretion of a police officer.

   The case involved a Texas �soccer mom� who is white; but in its legal 
brief, the ACLU warned that giving the police such discretionary authority 
too often represents an open invitation to racial profiling of African 
American, Latino and other minority motorists.

   Indeed, noted Justice Sandra Day O�Connor, author of the dissenting 
opinion, �as the recent debate over racial profiling demonstrates all too 
clearly, a relatively minor traffic infraction may often serve as an excuse 
for stopping and harassing an individual.�

   Susan Herman, author of the ACLU brief and a professor at Brooklyn Law 
School, said that the case had offered the Justices an opportunity to 
address the critical question of whether there are any objective limitations 
on the power to arrest. But instead of setting much-needed boundaries on 
police authority, �the Court settled for no limits at all,� she said.

   In Alexander v. Sandoval, No. 99-1908, the Court barred private 
individuals from filing lawsuits under the 1964 Civil Rights Act contending 
that federally funded programs are operated in a way that discriminates, in 
practice, on the basis of race or ethnic background.
>
>   The court rejected a lawsuit by a group of non-English-speaking 
>motorists in Alabama, who contended that a state motor vehicle policy of 
>giving driver's license tests only in English has the effect of 
>discriminating on the basis of ethnic background.
>
>   �With today�s ruling,� the ACLU�s Shapiro said, �the Court has turned 
>back the clock on three decades of civil rights enforcement."
>
>   �For more than a quarter-century, laws forbidding discrimination in 
>federally assisted programs or activities have been a mainstay of national 
>civil rights policy,� Shapiro said. �Congress clearly intended to allow 
>such lawsuits under the 1964 Act.�
>
>   Even the majority recognized that such lawsuits are appropriate to 
>combat intentional discrimination, but outlawed their use to challenge 
>programs that have a discriminatory effect, he explained.
>
>   In light of today�s Supreme Court decision, Shapiro said, �Congress must 
>act once again to ensure that victims of discrimination can have their day 
>in court."
>
>   "More than ever,� he added, "the burden is now on the Department of 
>Justice and other federal agencies to ensure that federal tax dollars are 
>not used to support this kind of discrimination.�
>
>   The ACLU's legal brief in the Atwater case is online at: 
>http://www.aclu.org/court/atwater.html. The Sandoval legal brief is 
>available at: http://www.aclu.org/court/sandoval.pdf.
>
>
>
>Copyright 2001, The American Civil Liberties Union

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Post ID:1505
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-26 10:04:58
Subject:Fwd: [coalitionforjustice] Responsibilities of Marshals
Message:

For march on trenton may 16. this is sound training for other 
marches/rallies/protesets. the training is free and is being instructed by a 
professional marshall (march guide/security) trainer.

joe


From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
To: <poprogress@egroups.com>, <coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Responsibilities of Marshals
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 07:00:53 -0400

We need a lot of marshals to guide the 4 columns of marchers. We need you. 
Last marshal training session at CWA in Trenton at 9:30AM, this Sat --- 321 
W. State Street. Bring your male or female body and brain.  The training, 
including role-playing, is really worthwhile and necessary. Here's my 
summary of some of what was taught.

Howard

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1506
Sender:"JOSEPH MOSLEY" <joemosley1@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-26 11:40:36
Subject:Re: [IPPN] On Winning Hearts and Minds
Message:

For information.
JoeMosley


>From: indpol@...
>Reply-To: indpol@...
>To: ippn-announce@...
>Subject: [IPPN]  On Winning Hearts and Minds
>Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:38:08 -0400
>
>Future Hope column, April 23, 2001
>
>
>On Winning Hearts and Minds
>
>by Ted Glick
>
>A year ago, on April 17th, 2000, I wrote a Future Hope column which
>likened both the forms of action and the relative organizational
>coherence of the April 16th actions in D.C. against the IMF/World Bank
>to a regular army without violent weapons, a "non-violent army." After
>being in the middle of the April 20 (and A21 and A22) Day(s) of Direct
>Action against the FTAA in Quebec City, I think some questions must be
>raised and addressed as to if that description is still accurate, and
>the political implications.
>
>Make no mistake about it: the battle we are waging against the global
>capitalist order is a political battle, first and foremost, far and
>away. It is not a military battle because if it were we'd be snuffed out
>in a New York minute. It's not an economic battle because, even with all
>of our coops and alternative economic institutions, as important as they
>are, our "economy" will never just grow and grow to the point at which
>the corporate economy is supplanted; it's not in the cards. Our primary
>work, the touchstone of all of our discussions concerning tactics, must
>be about winning the hearts and minds of literally tens of millions of
>North Americans. It is only that broad base of support, out of which can
>grow a bigger and bigger movement of organizers and activists, which
>will make the changes we seek possible.
>
>Based upon my experiences in Quebec City, as well as in D.C.,
>Philadelphia and Los Angeles last year, I don't think all of those
>involved in this righteous struggle share the view that it is primarily
>political, that we need to develop and adjust tactics with the hearts
>and minds of those tens of millions in the forefront of our thinking.
>I'm referring specifically to many-not all, but many, it seems-of those
>who are commonly seen as making up the Black Bloc.
>
>Don't get me wrong. I view the Black Bloc and individual members I know
>as friends and allies. As I have gotten to know some of them
>individually over the past year, I have come to respect their
>commitment, their courage, their willingness to be on the front lines in
>the confrontations with the police and the military. I cheered on April
>20th in Quebec City when young people (all young men, from what I
>observed), often dressed in black and wearing gas masks and insulated
>gloves, repeatedly pounced on the tear gas canister shells shot by the
>police and hurled or kicked them back from whence they came. When one
>young person dressed in black, standing 10 feet from me, was hit
>directly by a canister and knocked in great pain to the ground, so badly
>hurt that he had to be carried away by others, the angry language I used
>would not have made my parents proud.
>
>Yet I saw other things involving Black Bloc members.
>
>After our huge march arrived at the Wall of Shame close to the FTAA
>meeting site, and after portions of the fence were torn down and tear
>gas began to be used, I watched as young men on the front lines threw
>snowballs, bottles, sticks and stones at heavily padded police guarding
>the now-open area. As the battle went on, it turned uglier, and not just
>on the police side. Our front-line warriors picked up foot square paving
>stones, broke them in half and threw these chunks at the cops. I saw
>none do any observable damage; the cops' clear plastic shields, and
>their helmets and padding, seemed to frustrate any direct hits. But what
>if there had been direct hits?
>
>Early the following morning, during a temporary lull in the battle for
>control of the hilltop plaza close to the FTAA meeting site, I checked
>out the situation. I took a picture of the area where the paving stones
>had been picked up and broken. As I did so a man who talked and looked
>as if he were a local Quebec City resident said to me, "Those stones
>could have badly hurt one of the police, and what if he were a father?"
>I agreed with him, while also commenting on the violence of the FTAA.
>
>Or what about this: toward the end of the afternoon, I watched as a
>young man from within our ranks, without gas mask, bandana or any other
>protection, courageously moved within ten feet of the police lines at
>one point, saying something to them, then turned to walk back to where
>hundreds of people were sitting. Before he got back he was hit by a
>large stone with a glancing blow to the side of the head. The stone was
>thrown at the police by one of us, someone who had little common sense
>and a not very accurate arm. The young man who was hit staggered for a
>few yards, then sank to the ground. He had to be helped away by others.
>
>And others have told me about seeing the use of molotov cocktails by
>those from within our ranks. Whether these were Black Bloc'ers or agent
>provocateurs is unknown.
>
>Which brings us back to the "hearts and minds" issue.
>
>It may be that individual Black Bloc'ers wouldn't have been bothered if
>serious injury had been done to one of the cops as a result of their
>actions. I don't think that is a good thing, but I can at least
>understand it. But they should care if the tactics they use are directly
>responsible for injury to those of us who are also out there putting our
>bodies on the line, and they should care about the effect of their
>tactics on those broad masses of working-class people who know little
>about either the FTAA or us and who, unfortunately, rely on the
>corporate media for their information. And although we don't control
>that media, we can have some influence over how and what they report
>depending upon what tactics we use.
>
>I can just hear what some would say in response: pacifism and
>non-violence aren't militant enough. We can't trust the media. We need
>to kick ass, let them know of our anger, provide an example to oppressed
>people of willingness to fight the agents of repression.
>
>I think of something Dave Dellinger once said about non-violence. He was
>referring to the Cuban Revolution, and he described it as "essentially
>non-violent," even though Fidel, Che and his compatriots were armed and
>attacked the military forces of the Batista dictatorship. Dave explained
>this by talking about how, after a battle, the Cuban revolutionaries
>would take care of the wounded Batista soldiers, bandage up their
>wounds, encourage them to support the revolutionary cause. Although
>armed, they understood that their struggle was primarily political, and
>they did not have a macho, militaristic mindset.
>
>Che Guevera himself, according to an article by Dellinger in a recent
>issue of Toward Freedom, is quoted as saying that in the U.S., "the most
>heavily armed nation in the world. . . the only way to succeed was
>through nonviolent protests, including civil disobedience."
>
>And look at the Zapatistas! This is a present-day example of a movement
>that understands clearly the limits of violence and use of arms, that
>comprehends at the core of their being the overwhelmingly political
>essence of their struggle and acts accordingly.
>
>But we don't have to look beyond our shores for examples of militant
>alternatives to Black Bloc tactics. All we have to do is look at what
>was really the most impressive and politically powerful-if it could get
>through the media spin of "violent protests"-aspect of the FTAA battles
>this past weekend: the heroic, unarmed, non-violent persistence of the
>overwhelming majority of the direct actionists.
>
>For upwards of four hours on A20 we held onto significant portions of
>the Boulevard Rene Levesque hilltop plaza area. Despite repeated use of
>tear gas, and though we often had to retreat, thousands of us kept
>coming back. We kept moving closer and closer to police lines, using the
>weapons of non-violent mobility, music, drumming, frisbee-playing, to
>reclaim, little by little, lost ground. One police line area, near
>Avenue Turnbull, was essentially taken by us through the use of these
>tactics. It was at this point, around 6 P.M., that the police must have
>decided that more was needed from their side, and they unleashed a
>massive barrage of tear gas while advancing with dogs to force us off
>the plaza and down into the side streets.
>
>How did we accomplish this limited, tactical victory of holding at least
>some of the plaza all afternoon?
>
>1) We had massive numbers, in the many thousands, possibly as many as
>20,000 people at the height of the action.
>2) Many of those thousands were organized into affinity groups that had
>gone through training in non-violent action.
>3) There were people willing and prepared to risk themselves by
>immediately picking up the tear gas canisters and throwing them away
>from our ranks, minimizing the tear gas effects. And there were people
>willing to go up to the front and tear down the fence, risking arrest or
>police attacks.
>4) There were medics available to help with injuries, and there was a
>spirit of cooperation and mutual support within our ranks when someone
>was injured.
>5) There was extensive media presence with lots of cameras.
>6) We had drummers, whistlers, musicians, chants, radical cheerleaders,
>dancers, frisbee players and flags and banners to keep our spirits up.
>
>None of these elements involved violence against people.
>
>We need to look a little more deeply into this question of non-violence
>as it applies to our movement against global capitalism.
>
>As I have observed and experienced it, non-violence can mean one of
>several things:
>
>It can be a lifestyle, a conscious effort to, as much as humanly
>possible, make one's day-to-day thoughts, actions and living patterns do
>no damage, physical, emotional or spiritual, to any living thing. This
>means everything from refusing to engage in physical fighting, to
>serious reflection on racism, sexism, heterosexism, class privilege and
>other forms of domination/oppression, to vegetarianism and veganism. The
>aim is to practice what we preach, in a wholistic way, to be a
>love-and-life-centered person.
>
>It can have to do mainly with the tactics used in campaigns and
>movements for social change, as referred to above.
>
>Or it can be seen as a strategy for revolutionary change, THE way that,
>over time, we will overcome and replace an unjust and oppressive social
>order. Alternative economic institutions, boycotts, strikes, non-violent
>direct action are the main ways this would happen.
>
>It is important that we separate out these different aspects of what
>people mean when they say "non-violence." It is important because we
>need clarity when we are discussing the question at hand, how to win the
>hearts and minds of millions.
>
>Personally, I don't see "non-violence," non-violence alone, as a
>potentially winning strategy. There is much more that we have to be
>about, including the formation of an alternative to the Democrats and
>Republicans, one which runs independent candidates and is grounded in
>and accountable to grassroots, broadly-based social movements. On the
>other hand, I do believe that we should all be striving to become as
>non-violent as possible in the way we live our personal lives, and I
>believe that, in the United States context, creative, militant, mobile,
>non-violent direct action is the appropriate set of tactics we should be
>using in situations like A20.
>
>What might this have meant in Quebec City? What if, in advance, there
>had been an agreement that only those types of tactics would have been
>acceptable? What might have happened?
>
>The fence would have been torn down. Non-violence, to me, does not
>foreclose a limited amount of focused property destruction. Some
>property should not exist or should not be used in the ways it is.
>
>In response to the police use of tear gas, instead of throwing
>increasingly dangerous projectiles at them, we would have done what we
>did later in the afternoon: throw the tear gas back, hold our ground as
>much as possible, come back from the tear gas attacks, use creative
>tactics like music and dancing to "calm the savage beasts" in their
>Darth Vader uniforms, and get up close to police lines. We would have
>talked to the cops-and been overheard by the many reporters and
>cameramen swarming all around-about why we were there, how they also
>stood to gain from our efforts to prevent the destruction of our
>environment and to end poverty and starvation. If those would have
>worked, at some point we might have begun moving in an organized way to
>attempt to push through those lines, determining the best place to do so
>based upon the responses we were getting from the other side. If, for
>example, one of the police smiled at us, or indicated in some other way
>a sympathy for what we were saying, that would probably be the place
>where we would make our first effort to deliberately break through.
>
>Almost certainly, once we did this, or before things got to this point,
>those higher up in the police would react. They might well react
>aggressively, either arresting or beating us. They might use tear gas in
>massive quantities, although they would be somewhat constrained by the
>mass media being so close. Indeed, they would probably have difficulty
>deciding what to do. Whatever they did, they would be seen as the "bad
>guys." More than likely, a good bit of the media spin would be not about
>"violent protests" but, instead, "violent cops."
>
>Throwing dangerous stones, glass and sand-filled bottles, molotov
>cocktails, using sling shots-these are tactics our enemy welcomes.
>Indeed, it is an established fact that historically, agent provocateurs
>have infiltrated movements like ours and done whatever they could to get
>the rest of us to use violent tactics. This allows them to more easily
>obscure our message, come across as anti-violence themselves.
>
>Disciplined, militant, creative, non-violent tactics, in contrast, make
>it much more likely that our basic message will not be as distorted. We
>will gain more sympathy from neutral observers who will want to learn
>more as they see us being willing to face tear gas, pepper spray, water
>cannons, plastic bullets, arrests, beatings, dogs, horses or whatever
>else the rulers decide to use. Less militant and partial allies will be
>emboldened to speak up and take stronger action themselves.
>
>What does this mean as far as our relations with the groups/individuals
>who make up or relate to the Black Bloc?
>
>We need to separate our personal friendships with individuals within
>this sector of our movement from our strategic and tactical views of
>what is necessary if we are to be ultimately effective in our
>objectives. Families have internal differences, even fights, and they
>still stay together. They work out arrangements.
>
>But we do need more conscious back-and-forth over these questions:
>
>-How can we convince tens of millions of people of the justice of our
>cause?
>-How can we integrate growing numbers of those tens of millions into our
>organizations and actions?
>-How can we build upon our tactical experiences since Seattle and make
>adjustments?
>-Is mimicking the tactics of the U.S. military and police consistent
>with the goals we have, the new society we are striving to bring into
>being?
>-How should those of us who believe that, yes, a "non-violent army" is
>what we need get ourselves connected so that our views can be put out
>more broadly within the overall movement?
>-How should we relate to the Black Bloc?
>
>
>Quebec City was a victory for our movement. It could have been a bigger
>victory, but it was a victory.  Bush, Cretien, Fox and their ilk were on
>the defensive because of the hard work of thousands of people and the
>depth of support for our basic message. But this was only one battle in
>an on-going war. Before the next battle, let's check ourselves out. The
>need is urgent.
>
>
>Ted Glick is the National Coordinator of the Independent Progressive
>Politics Network (www.ippn.org) and author of Future Hope: A Winning
>Strategy for a Just Society. He can be reached at futurehopeTG@...
>or P.O. Box 1132, Bloomfield, N.J.  07003.
>
>[This message sent using the IPPN Announce e-mail list.  You can join this
>low-traffic email group on alternative politics by sending a blank email 
>to:
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>
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>ippn-discuss-subscribe@...
>
>Thanks!  And please visit www.ippn.org
>for information on the on-going work of the
>Pro-Democracy Campaign and other ippn activities.
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1507
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-24 14:51:49
Subject:Fwd: Wash. Post page 1: Protesters Seize Day In Quebec
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Jim Davis" <em4jim@...>
--

--------- Forwarded Message ---------

DATE: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 00:07:52
From: jeff genauer <je_genauer@...>
To: NJ-MGJ@..., nbfoodnotbombs@yahoogroups.com, 
starc-rutgers@yahoogroups.com

My heart goes out to all who are risking their bodies for justice and
freedom in Quebec. Congratulations, you succeeded in disrupting the first
day of the FTAA! More to come tomorrow!

An important aside: A prominent organizer named Jaggi Singh was singled out
as a "leader" of the protests and captured by undercover Canadian police. He
was pulled from a crowd and dragged away. At this point, his whereabouts are
not known. Jaggi was one of the organizers from Quebec who presented the
anti-FTAA teach-in at Rutgers on February 26. In addition to being an
amazingly knowledgeable and dedicated organizer, he's an incredibly
compassionate and genuine person. It's sick that he would be targeted. If I
receive any information about things we can do to support him and get him
freed, I'll send it along ...

xoxo
jeff

----Original Message Follows----

"Bush remained holed up in his hotel as the summit's opening
ceremonies were delayed more than an hour. He was forced to
cancel one meeting and postpone or abbreviate others...
The participating nations were determined to avoid a repeat
of the disturbances that marred the 1999 meeting of the
World Trade Organization in Seattle, but the summit's first
day was badly disrupted....
  >From Washington today came an announcement that some
protesters might welcome.  U.S. Trade Representative Robert
Zoellick announced that the Bush administration will subject
future trade agreements to environmental reviews."



Protesters Seize Day In Quebec
Trade Foes Tear Gassed At Summit of Americas

By Dana Milbank
   Washington Post Staff Writer
   Saturday, April 21, 2001; Page A01

QUEBEC CITY, April 20 -- President Bush and 33 other Western
Hemisphere leaders seeking to build the world's largest
free-trade zone opened a summit meeting today as clouds of
tear gas and violent demonstrations played havoc with
schedules and delayed meetings.

Bush remained holed up in his hotel as the summit's opening
ceremonies were delayed more than an hour. He was forced to
cancel one meeting and postpone or abbreviate others because
the movements of heads of state around Quebec City were
hampered by the anti-globalization protests.

"If they are protesting because of free trade, I'd say I
disagree," Bush said. "I think trade is very important to
this hemisphere. Trade not only helps spread propserity but
trade helps spread freedom."

In the lobby of the Loews Hotel, confusion reigned, as Bush
aides scrambled to keep track of the changing schedule while
watching the riots on television. Colombian President Andres
Pastrana waited out the delays in the cocktail lounge.

Bush departed Washington this morning hoping to use the
Summit of the Americas to boost his push for "trade
promotion authority," or fast-track negotiating authority,
which would allow him to negotiate trade agreements that
Congress could only approve or reject, not rewrite.

Bush would use that power to negotiate a 34-nation Free
Trade Area of the Americas by 2005 -- a goal made difficult
by foot-dragging in Brazil and opposition in Congress.
Setting the countries on track toward that objective is the
main business of this summit

On the South Lawn of the White House, Bush made an appeal
for domestic support for free trade in the hemisphere by
citing its importance to Hispanics, an increasingly
influential voting segment.

"Many Americans trace their heritage to other parts of the
Americas, which enriches our culture," he said. "Many
American businesses are finding growth and trade in the
Americas, which expands our economy. And all Americans have
an interest in the peace and stability of our closest
neighbors."

"We must approach this goal in a spirit of civility," he
said.

In Quebec City today, however, there was very little
civility as police and demonstrators clashed a half mile
from the convention center where the summit was convening.

There were few reports of arrests or injuries, but the
demonstrators partially achieved their goal of disrupting
events.

The center of the city remained tense tonight, with very
little traffic and officers in military fatigues stationed
on most corners.

The authorities had sealed off the city center with fences
and concrete barricades, but demonstrators breached the
barricades in places.

The participating nations were determined to avoid a repeat
of the disturbances that marred the 1999 meeting of the
World Trade Organization in Seattle, but the summit's first
day was badly disrupted.

  >From Washington today came an announcement that some
protesters might welcome.

U.S. Trade Representative Robert Zoellick announced that the
Bush administration will subject future trade agreements to
environmental reviews.

The decision, which could ease some objection to trade pacts
in the United States, affirms an executive order issued by
President Clinton.

It is the latest in a string of pro-environment decisions by
the Bush administration, which had been stung by
environmentalists' anger caused by earlier, pro-business
decisions.

"Environmental reviews are an important policy tool for
involving the public in the development of the U.S.
government's trade objectives and policies," Zoellick's
office said in a statement.

The president, who watched the protests on television,
canceled a meeting with 15 Caribbean heads of state because
many of the leaders couldn't make it to the Loews Concord
Hotel where Bush was to host them.

A meeting of Andean national leaders started 20 minutes late
and without Brazilian President Fernando Henrique Cardoso
and Bolivian President Hugo Banzer Suarez.

Only three of seven Central American leaders arrived close
to schedule for a meeting with Bush, which had to be
delayed.

Even without the demonstrations, the summit was not shaping
up as an easy one.

Cardoso of Brazil set a tough tone in a speech at the
opening session, underlining his country's reluctance to
join a free-trade accord with the U.S.

"We will insist that free-trade benefits should be equally
shared by all participants, that trade opening should be
reciprocal and that it should lead to the attenuation rather
than the aggravation of the disparities that exist in our
region," Cardoso said.

FTAA would be "welcome," Cardoso said, if it included
changes in member nations' rules on dumping, the sale of
foreign products at illegal prices, and if it included a
number of other elements Brazil is seeking to open markets
for its agricultural exports.

"Otherwise, it would be irrelevant or, worse, undesirable,"
he said.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez was also critical. Since
the concept of a free trade zone was endorsed at a summit in
Miami in 1994, he said, "we have advanced very little --
almost not at all -- in the social objectives."

Accompanied by his wife, Laura, Secretary of State Colin L.
Powell and several top aides, Bush was greeted on arrival by
a Canadian military band.

Bush arrived early for a meeting with Canadian Prime
Minister Jean Chretien, and the two posed for the cameras.

When Chretien declared that they wouldn't be taking
questions, Bush added: "Neither in French nor in English nor
in Mexican."

Meeting with the Central American leaders, aides said, Bush
reiterated his opposition to the Kyoto treaty on global
warming, telling them it "could do serious harm to the U.S.
economy." As an alternative, a senior administration
official said, Bush is pursuing "various international
processes to work toward a new and innovative approach based
upon market-based incentives, new technologies and
cooperatively working together."

                                   � 2001 The Washington Post
Company
_______________________

Demonstrators Turn Anger on 'Wall'

By DeNeen L. Brown
   Washington Post Foreign Service
   Saturday, April 21, 2001; Page A01

QUEBEC CITY, April 20 -- What most enraged the demonstrators
was "the wall of shame." Running 2 1/2 miles around the
convention center where the Summit of the Americas was
convening, the hastily erected concrete and chain-link
barrier confirmed to them that they and their views would be
shut out of the deliberations inside.

This afternoon, they got their revenge.

Euphoric crowds of anti-globalization demonstrators marched
to the wall and pushed against it. First a young man scaled
it, and then others began rocking it. Soon an entire section
gave way. The crowd cheered; its most daring members crossed
the boundary into territory officially denied to them.

Some threw bottles and sticks at the waiting riot police. A
few picked up a metal barrier and used it as a battering ram
against a row of helmeted officers.

Police remained calm, throwing canisters of tear gas,
ducking the rocks. Protesters ran as the gas burned their
eyes, noses and skin. But often the wind was in the
protesters' favor, wafting the white clouds of gas back onto
police lines.

The protesters were soon evicted back across the fence line,
but they were happy. "It was a little victory," said one
protester, who earlier was chanting "We are the champions."
The fracas had successfully intruded on the carefully
orchestrated schedule of pomp and consultation inside:
Several of President Bush's meetings with leaders of other
countries were put off, and the opening ceremony was
postponed by an hour.

It was the same basic scene that has erupted in the past two
years wherever government or corporate leaders meet on a big
scale. Seattle, Prague, Davos, Switzerland -- each has drawn
a medley of organizations that contest the world's existing
capitalist order. As in those other places, much of the
violence today was the work of young "anarchists" wearing
masks and black clothing.

Early in the day, hundreds of students met to organize the
movement in basements at Laval University, their main
staging ground. The movement was working overtime. While
world leaders slept, the protesters organized.

"They are afraid of us," one of the demonstrators shouted to
assembled students. "This is why they have 6,000 police. But
we will be heard."

Everyone knew that there would be violence. Demonstrators
talked of which "zone" of protest they'd be in, based on how
gutsy they were willing to be.

The red zone was the front line, for those prepared to fight
by any means, to get arrested, to tear down the wall. Yellow
was a bit farther from the police, for those who favored
nonviolent disobedience but would "offer support" to those
in the red zone. Green was for those who wanted to avoid
conflict.

Over and over, anger was focused on the wall. "This is a
symbol of the struggle -- to have a discussion behind the
wall," said French activist Jose Bove, who's famous in his
home country for his attacks on McDonald's restaurants. "I'm
here to say what is happening in the Americas is important
for people around the world."

By midafternoon, thousands of people had converged at Laval,
chanting "Down with FTAA," the Free Trade Agreement of the
Americas, the pact under discussion at the summit. Finally,
they began to move down Boulevard Laurier toward the old
city. As they marched almost five miles, they seemed to get
more and more angry. "Corporations are liars and thieves,"
one man in a green mask shouted.

Ahead they saw the fence, with riot police in rows behind
it. When the marchers reached what they believed to be the
weakest section -- some had surreptitiously tested its
strength the day before -- they began shouting slogans. The
police stood still. The protesters grew louder, shouting
"So-So-Solidarity." And then they broke through.

In ensuing hours came a general melee. Police threw grenade
after grenade of gas. Anarchists sent many of them arcing
back toward the officers' lines. Some reporters saw them
hurl a few firebombs as well.

Using loudspeakers, police called on demonstrators to leave,
evoking defiant laughter from some of them. Soon arrests
began. Police moved in, grabbing at arms and clothing.
Demonstrators were pressed facedown on the pavement as
police searched and cuffed them.

By late evening, the street battles were still underway,
with police helicopters buzzing overhead. Media vehicles
were parked with smashed windows. For many protesters, this
was just the prelude. Organizers hoped that a march
scheduled for Saturday would draw thousands of new bodies
and voices to the barricades.

                                   � 2001 The Washington Post
Company





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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1508
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-27 00:20:26
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [IPPN] On Winning Hearts and Minds
Message:

THANK YOU



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1509
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-27 08:38:11
Subject:pedagogy of the oppressed discussion
Message:

On this Sunday April 30 at 630 there will be a discussion group of the first 
chapter in Paulo Freire's Pedagogy of the Oppressed at 136 Baldwin Street. 
Please email or call me at 732-545-7207, with any questions or for a ride.

Louise
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1510
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-27 13:10:30
Subject:organizing the larger struggle
Message:

To add a few thoughts to this discussion on police brutality:

     If NB organizers are going to reinvigertate the local focus on 
combating police brutality (beyond the necessary exposure of the recent 
incident involving Rutgers' students & RUPD) then it would be wise to 
explore picking up where the NB Coalition Against Police Brutality left off. 
  Since the call is for democratic control over public institutions, then 
any serious organizing effort around police brutality coming out of the NBPC 
needs to look at the Coalition/NJFO "Right to Know" request.  Submitted over 
two years ago, this was a 9-Point Request based on the NJ Freedom of 
Information Act and Common Law demanding that internal files of the NBPD be 
released to the public.  The demands ranged from general NBPD records to 
paricular cases involving notorious cops & specific incidences.  
Unfortunately, this project stalled out when I left as head of the Coalition 
& moved to Newark; & an effort to renew the call about 10 months ago--when 
NJFO & Coalition members met with Renee Steinhagen, the civil rights 
attorney who is representing a number of black state troopers in their case 
against the State Police & who originally drafted our Right-to-Know 
request--was again allowed to lapse by NJFO organizers who apparently failed 
to see the relavance of this work to the broader struggle for democracy and 
involvement in electoral politics.  (That the city council campaign was run 
as "go-for-broke, drop-everything-else" by NJFO president & campaign manager 
who "knew we weren't going to win" further shows the error in NJFO dropping 
the "Right-to-Know" issue.  But the greatest mistake made is that the 
Coalition was always NJFO's deepest connection to NB's African-American 
working class community, & we still wonder why the NBPC has such difficulty 
in building these ties!)
     In the last year or so, there has been a broad state-wide campaign 
pressing for "Open Books" & "Right-to-Know" of internal local & state 
governmental files before being eclipsed by the racial profiling issue.  So 
I actually disagree with Paul when he says "It does appear we're in an even 
better position to influence the regional and national independent agenda."  
Fact is, NJFO fell off the radar screen with both the Right-to-Know and 
Racial Profiling issue just when we were really in a position to break onto 
a state-wide platform to put out leading positions on these issues. Its 
going to take more than enthusiasm to regain that position. It's going to 
take some consistancy and sticking to a long-term plan when that work may 
not seem to be the most exciting thing in the public spot-light.
     This is not to discourage folks in the NBPC from jumping quickly on 
this issue--to the contrary, it's to encourage people not be so quick to 
jump off.  So while this would be an important topic of conversation at 
NJFO's organizing workshop, I would suggest that if "activists of any stripe 
will learn from years of local experience", as Paul asserts, then the 
"organizing-workshop" organizers need to teach by example by learning from 
our own mistakes as well...& not lead others to repeat them.

Matthew Smith


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Paul McGee"
Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpcmembers] police brutality and organizing the larger struggle
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:57:50 -0000
I just wanted to add a few words to the posts regarding NBPD beating up
Rutgers students. If RU students want to take action against police
brutality, there are many ways to do so. They range from letters to the
editor, to making character posters of rogue cops and posting them all over
town, to organizing victims for a class action suit, (something a lawyer
once suggested to me).
I think Charlotte's suggestion for a brutality pamphlet is a good one, and
timely too. It seems that the debate over brutality has been co-opted into
a debate over "profiling", a much more innocuous subject. While profiling
is usually racist and always despicable, it doesn't imply the gross
violation of rights that brutality conveys.
I think people need to focus on both subjects, with an important goal being
community control, as we've said in NB for years.
The NB activist community, lead by the NB Coalition Against Police
Brutality, has lead the effort to make the call for civilian, elected police
review boards. We've demanded these locally for years, and eventually
people all over the tri-state area picked up on the idea!!! It took a lot of
arguing, but people finally saw the usefulness and democratic power these
boards represent.
Now, as the People's Campaign grows and matures, we're in an even better
position to influence the regional and national independent agenda by
translating our political successes into programmatic calls for democratic
control over public institutions, or "people's democracy".
People with interest in exploring these topics and other related topics
should plan to attend the organizing workshop planned for May 12 and 13th.
NJFO is sponsoring the workshop, and activists of any stripe will learn from
years of local experience and will have a chance to share their skills as
well. It'll be fun and dynamic, and we plan to throw a party on Saturday
night (the 12th).
For more info, reply to this email or call me at 732-729-0873.
Paul McGee
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1511
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-27 16:34:04
Subject:Re: [nbpc] pedagogy of the oppressed discussion
Message:

hey lou,

how's it going?

just wanted you to know i spoke with X about the njfo phone. the Campaign is 
now taking responsibility for it. Alyssa Coiley will be calling you to 
transfer it to her name. i think both of you need to be on the phone to do 
that with Verizon.

also, he paid $50 towards it yesterday. The campaign will pay for the rest 
of the balance...

kristina


>From: "Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@egroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] pedagogy of the oppressed discussion
>Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:38:11 -0400
>
>
>On this Sunday April 30 at 630 there will be a discussion group of the 
>first
>chapter in Paulo Freire's Pedagogy of the Oppressed at 136 Baldwin Street.
>Please email or call me at 732-545-7207, with any questions or for a ride.
>
>Louise
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1512
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-27 16:35:12
Subject:Re: [nbpc] pedagogy of the oppressed discussion
Message:

SORRY about the phone bill message... sent it by accident!!


>From: "Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@egroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] pedagogy of the oppressed discussion
>Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:38:11 -0400
>
>
>On this Sunday April 30 at 630 there will be a discussion group of the 
>first
>chapter in Paulo Freire's Pedagogy of the Oppressed at 136 Baldwin Street.
>Please email or call me at 732-545-7207, with any questions or for a ride.
>
>Louise
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1513
Sender:Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-29 16:14:14
Subject:Re: [njfo] pedagogy of the oppressed discussion
Message:

HI everyone, sorry about the late notice, but I got to cancel tonite, I will let
you know when we will reschedule.
Louise

Louise Ammentorp wrote:

> On this Sunday April 30 at 630 there will be a discussion group of the first
> chapter in Paulo Freire's Pedagogy of the Oppressed at 136 Baldwin Street.
> Please email or call me at 732-545-7207, with any questions or for a ride.
>
> Louise
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@...
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: njfo-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1514
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-30 13:11:36
Subject:Fwd: Kids are getting smarter these days
Message:

>
>        >President George W. Bush is visiting an elementary school
>        >today and he visits one of the classes (4th grade I believe).
>        >They are in the middle of a discussion related to words and
>        >their meanings. The teacher asks the President if he would
>        >like to lead the class in the discussion of the word, "
>        tragedy."
>        >So our illustrious leader asks the class for an example of
>        >a "tragedy."
>        >
>        >One little boy stands up and offers, "If my best friend, who
>        lives
>        >next door, is playing in the street and a car comes along and
>        >runs him over, that would be a tragedy."
>        >
>        >"No," says Bush, "that would be an ACCIDENT."
>        >
>        >A little girl raises her hand: "If a school bus carrying 50
>        >children drove off a cliff, killing everyone involved, that
>        would
>        >be a tragedy."
>        >
>        >"I'm afraid not," explains the President. "That's what we
>        would
>        >call a GREAT LOSS."
>        >
>        >The room goes silent. No other children volunteer.President
>        >Bush searches the room. "Isn't there someone here who can
>        >give me an example of a tragedy?"
>        >
>        >Finally, way in the back of the room, Lil' Johnny raises his
>        hand.
>        >In a quiet voice he says, "If Air Force One, carrying
>        President
>        >and Mrs Bush, was struck by a missile and blown up to
>        >smithereens, that would be a  tragedy.
>        >
>        >"Fantastic," exclaims Bush, "that's right. And can you tell me
>        >WHY that would be a tragedy?"
>        >
>        >"Well," Lil' Johnny said, "because it wouldn't be an accident,
>        >and it  damn sure wouldn't be a great loss."
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1515
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-30 13:24:12
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] MAY DAY CONCERT AND MOBILIZATION
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "ken nash" <knash@...>
To: "Nash, Ken" <KNash@...>
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] MAY DAY CONCERT AND MOBILIZATION
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:19:25 -0400

MAY  DAY  2001
come  and  celebrate  in historic  Union  Square  Park
with  a  multi-cultural  concert  and  poetry  recital...

--New  Yorican  agit-prop  rockers
RICANSTRUCTION

--revolutionary  saxophonist/composer
FRED  HO

--roots  folksinger
ANNE  FEENEY

--"The  Billy  Bragg  of NY" (LA  Times)
KIRK  KELLY

--topical  songwriter
RAY  KORONA

--Uruguayan  vocalist
MARIANA MURDOCCO

--Labor-Left  troubadors
RED  NOVEMBER

--radical  poets
BREAD  IS  RISING  POETRY  COLLECTIVE

--Peruvian  vocalist
RENZO  ORTEGA

emcee/organizer   John  Pietaro
______________________
...and  then  stay  and  join  us  in   a  rally  and  march  for  WORKERS'
RIGHTS!
*
Tues. 5/1/01
Noon - 3:30  PM
Union  Square  Park, north  entrance, NYC
*
presented  by  the  New  York  Committee  for  Public  Works  Jobs,
The  Organizing  Committee  for  Workers'  Rights, and  the
National  Committee  for  Dignity  and  Amnesty

WORKERS  OF  THE  WORLD----UNITE!


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1516
Sender:senormart@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-30 15:31:23
Subject:Coalition for Justice has ignored the Latino community
Message:

Joe,

It is Monday, April 30, 2001, and there's no Latino Flyers at CWA office. I 
have called Ray's office twice with no luck of her (Ray) getting back to me.  
Trenton TLC has my email address, home telephone # and home address and so 
does the platform committee.  Did the Latino flyer disappear fro earth?

Several weeks ago I was asked to coordinate the Southward of Trenton for 
marchers and parking.  I have done that.  Several weeks ago I was asked to 
coordinate the Latino Media, I have done that by way of a Latino Press 
Advisory.  On May 16, 2001, there will be several prominent Latino News 
Network at the NJ State House.  Several weeks ago I was asked to help put 
together a Latino Flyer, I have done that.  Now I read press articles and in 
no place does a Latino organization appears as a sponsor.  What happen to my 
organization (PROS) prior work with the Coalition and other Latino 
organization work.  I'm very upset at the Coalition for Justice, because it 
has ignored the Latino community and this is not good.

Respectfully,
Juan Martinez








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1517
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-04-30 15:49:52
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Coalition for Justice has ignored the Latino community
Message:

i do not understand the need for you to e-mail all these groups and people 
about you not getting the flier. what do they have to do with it? the flier 
is mine and maura and your concern and we all took care of our 
respnsibilities with it. you should continue to call ray and go by the cwa 
office because she told me that she was going to make it available for you 
to pick up if she wasn't there.

joe


>From: senormart@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: can_bush@..., cliffsmith69@..., JeanRoss55@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, howardnelson@..., 
>sisterhoodNstruggle1@..., tamaradahan@..., 
>nita_08901@..., sherryRT@..., 
>cfpa@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Coalition for Justice has ignored the Latino community
>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:31:23 EDT
>
>Joe,
>
>It is Monday, April 30, 2001, and there's no Latino Flyers at CWA office. 
>�I
>have called Ray's office twice with no luck of her (Ray) getting back to 
>me.
>Trenton TLC has my email address, home telephone # and home address and so
>does the platform committee.  Did the Latino flyer disappear fro earth?
>
>Several weeks ago I was asked to coordinate the Southward of Trenton for
>marchers and parking.  I have done that.  Several weeks ago I was asked to
>coordinate the Latino Media, I have done that by way of a Latino Press
>Advisory.  On May 16, 2001, there will be several prominent Latino News
>Network at the NJ State House.  Several weeks ago I was asked to help put
>together a Latino Flyer, I have done that.  Now I read press articles and 
>in
>no place does a Latino organization appears as a sponsor.  What happen to 
>my
>organization (PROS) prior work with the Coalition and other Latino
>organization work.  I'm very upset at the Coalition for Justice, because it
>has ignored the Latino community and this is not good.
>
>Respectfully,
>Juan Martinez
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1518
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-04-30 21:32:14
Subject:happy international workers' day!
Message:



Chant for May Day
To be read by a Workman with, for background, the rhythmic waves of 
rising and re-rising Mass Voices, multiplying like the roar of the sea.

     WORKER:	The first of May:
			When the flowers break through the earth,
			When the sap rises in the trees.
			When the birds come back from the South.
			Workers:
			Be like the flowers,
  10 VOICES:	Bloom in the strength of your unknown 
			power,
  20 VOICES:	Grow out of the passive earth,
  40 VOICES:	Grow strong with Union,
			All hands together
	  	  	To beautify this hour, this spring,
 			And all the springs to come.
  50 VOICES: 	Forever for the Workers!
     WORKER:	Workers:
  10 VOICES:	Be like the sap rising in the trees,
  20 VOICES:	Strengthening each branch,
  40 VOICES:	No part neglected
  50 VOICES:	Reaching all the world,
     WORKER:	All workers:
  10 VOICES:	White workers,
  10 OTHERS:	Black workers,
  10 OTHERS:	Yellow workers,
  10 OTHERS: 	Workers in the islands of the sea
  50 VOICES:	Life is everywhere for you,
     WORKER:	When the sap of your own strength rises
  50 VOICES:	Life is everywhere.
  10 VOICES:	May Day!
  20 VOICES:	May Day!
  40 VOICES:	May Day!
  50 VOICES:	When the earth is new,
     WORKER:	Proletarians of all the world:
  20 VOICES:	Arise,
  40 VOICES:	Grow strong.
  60 VOICES:	Take Power,
  80 VOICES:	Till the forces of the earth are yours
 100 VOICES:	From this hour.

By Langston Hughes








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1519
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-01 00:22:31
Subject:Speak Out 2 Defeat Racist Profiling!
Message:


>Speak Out to Defeat Racist Profiling & Police Brutality!!
>
>May 1, 2001 Brower Commons
>Tuesday 11:00-1:00
>
>Speak out is being organized to raise student consciousness and
>organization to defend our local communities & state from White
>Supremacist Imperialist aggression known as Racist Profiling. Any
>creative forms of expression are encouraged to destroy these
>outright fascist tendencies. Also we are working to promote March on
>Trenton May 16 to Defeat Racist Profiling & Police Brutality.
>We must also work to expose Rutgers University President Francis
>Lawrence who made public his white supremacist agenda in '96 when he
>stated that "black people are genetically inferior to whites..." as
>to why they are not emitted into Rutgers on an equal basis as
>whites. Many current students where not attending rutgers when these
>remarks were made, so it is now our job to have this man fired from
>OUR diverse university.
>
>Speakers currently include:
>Larry Hamm - Peoples' Organization for Progress, Newark
>Joseph Mosley - Chair NJ Green Party
>Tom Degloma - New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign
>Jerusalam - Divine Immortal Family
>Joe Smith - Committee to Defeat Racist Profiling & Police Brutality
>Margaret Stevens - James Dickson CARR Society
>Juanita - Paul Robeson Cultural Club
>
>More Speakers Welcome!!
>
>To help with this event people must forward this e-mail, distribute
>literature, call friends and radio shows, announce at other
>events... to get literature or for any info contact joe smith
>729-0390 or can_bush@...
>
>
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1520
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-01 01:11:24
Subject:people v. bright
Message:

bright, you better cool your boy out. we hold you responsible


>From: TRACYFORD1420@...
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>CC: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [njfo] Re: people v. imperialism
>Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 00:45:18 -0400 (EDT)
>
>LIARS, FAKE AND SUPERFICIAL PEOPLE, JEALOUSY, AND PEOPLE WHO TAKE
>ADVANTAGE OF OTHERS
>TRACY FORD
>
><< Message5.txt >>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1521
Sender:Julie Poulos <juliepoulos@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-01 11:04:59
Subject:Fwd: Fw: "The Wolves Within"
Message:

--- Ro Reinke <rreinke@...> wrote:
> From: "Ro Reinke" <rreinke@...>
> To: "Carole Bouchard" <caroleb@...>,
>    "Betty Jean Thompson" <thompson@...>,
>    "Teresa Carmody" <Teresa_Carmody@...>,
>    "Julie Jean Poulos" <juliepoulos@...>
> CC: <kendra@...>, "Joanne Peachwall" <Phantomcrystals@...>
> Subject: Fw: "The Wolves Within"
> Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 09:17:58 -0400
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DALE EVERETT <lovewolves_2000@...>
> To: Mandy Hughs <mandygirl247@...>; Bonnie Worthington
> <bleew53@...>; Myra <msmyraus@...>
> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 11:49 AM
> Subject: "The Wolves Within"
> 
> 
> > "The Wolves Within"
> >
> >   An old Grandfather, whose grandson came to him
> >   with anger at a schoolmate who had done him an
> >   injustice, said, "Let me tell you a story. I too, at
> >   times, have felt a great hate for those that have
> >   taken so much, with no sorrow for what they do.
> >   But hate wears you down, and does not hurt your
> >   enemy. It is like taking poison and wishing your
> >   enemy would die. I have struggled with these
> >   feelings many times."
> >
> >   He continued, "It is as if there are two wolves
> >   inside me; one is good and does no harm. He lives
> >   in harmony with all around him and does not take
> >   offense when no offense was intended. He will only
> >   fight when it is right to do so, and in the right
> > way."
> >
> >   "But the other wolf, ah! He is full of anger. The
> >   littlest thing will set him into a fit of temper. He
> >   fights everyone, all the time, for no reason. He
> >   cannot think because his anger and hate are so
> >   great. It is hard to live with these two wolves
> > inside
> >   me, for both of them try to dominate my spirit."
> >
> >   The boy looked intently into his Grandfather's eyes
> >   and asked, "Which one wins, Grandfather?" The
> >   Grandfather solemnly said, "The one I feed."
> >
> >   Author Unknown
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Look To The Stars and Howl.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1522
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-01 14:05:21
Subject:Killer cop strikes again in Irvington!!
Message:

*********** "The shooting took place at 22nd Street and 18th Avenue, only a 
block from where [Officer] Mildon shot and killed another driver four years 
ago during a traffic stop that turned into a struggle. A grand jury in that 
case determined there was no cause for action against Mildon." **********


Irvington cop kills driver in road stop

05/01/01

BY WAYNE WOOLLEY, KEVIN C. DILWORTH AND JOE MALINCONICO
STAR-LEDGER STAFF




An Irvington police officer shot and killed a 29-year-old Newark man 
yesterday morning after authorities say the unarmed man tried to flee a 
traffic stop while driving his girlfriend's daughters to school.


Irvington police said the officer, William Mildon, approached Bilal Colbert 
in a drug-infested neighborhood near the Newark-Irvington border at 8:25 
a.m. after he determined that the gray Oldsmobile that Colbert was driving 
had a stolen license plate.


Colbert, who witnesses say was parked at the corner while one of the girls 
ran into a nearby bodega to get snacks on the way to school, put the car in 
reverse after Mildon swung open the driver's door, according to Irvington 
police.


Irvington Police Chief Steven Palamara said Mildon was struck by the open 
door as Colbert backed away and that the officer fired a single shot that 
hit Colbert in the neck.


The shooting took place at 22nd Street and 18th Avenue, only a block from 
where Mildon shot and killed another driver four years ago during a traffic 
stop that turned into a struggle. A grand jury in that case determined there 
was no cause for action against Mildon.


The Essex County Prosecutor's Office said a grand jury would decide whether 
yesterday's shooting was justified. No weapons were found at the scene or in 
Colbert's car, according to the prosecutor's office.


Palamara said preliminary indications were that the shooting was justified 
and that he would not second-guess Mildon's decision to fire. Colbert was 
black; Mildon is white.


"These decisions are made in a heartbeat," Palamara said. "When something 
like this happens, it has to be an automatic response. You just hope your 
training and common sense takes over."


Essex County Assistant Prosecutor Lawrence Monaco, director of the office's 
homicide squad, said it was too early to make a judgment on the shooting.


"We'll take a good, hard look at it," he said. "A number of witnesses have 
been spoken to, and we're in the process of looking for additional 
witnesses. At the appropriate time, the case will be presented to a grand 
jury in a fair and appropriate manner. The grand jury will make the ultimate 
determination based on the law."


Paul Bergrin, an attorney who was representing Colbert in a pending drug 
case, said the dead man's family accused Mildon of killing Colbert with no 
justification.


"Their version is that he was murdered by an Irvington police officer," 
Bergrin said.


Area residents angrily criticized Mildon's decision to shoot so close to the 
two girls, ages 8 and 10. But they said they doubted that charges would be 
brought against the officer, adding that authorities would protect one of 
their own.


"Short of there being a gun in the car, what could he have been doing for 
him to fire in the proximity of those kids?" asked resident Jay Johnson.


Separate statements issued yesterday by the county prosecutor's office and 
Irvington police department contained some inconsistencies.


For example, the police statement said Mildon opened the driver's door 
before he shot Colbert, but the prosecutor's report made no mention of the 
door being open.


Also, the Irvington news release said Colbert was dragging one of the 
children from the passenger's door while he tried to back away from Mildon 
and that the girl had tire marks on her clothes. The prosecutor's office 
said one of the girls was struck by the car while Colbert tried to flee.


A spokesman for University Hospital, where the girl was taken, said she 
suffered no physical injuries.


Guidelines issued by the New Jersey Attorney General's Office last June 
state that police officers should fire their weapons at moving vehicles only 
as a last resort, to prevent the imminent injury or death of themselves or 
another person.


The shooting took place in a neighborhood ravaged by drugs, outside a 
charred building that residents say has remained a shell ever since it was 
burned out about three years ago. Hours after the shooting, dealers 
continued to sell drugs in the open.


Palamara said Mildon, 37, suffered minor injuries to his knee and thigh from 
being hit by the car door as Colbert tried to flee. A spokeswoman at St. 
Barnabas Medical Center in Livingston said the officer was admitted 
overnight. Palamara said Mildon was hospitalized for several weeks with a 
fractured leg following the 1997 shooting.


In the minutes before yesterday's shooting, Mildon was parked in a marked 
patrol car in a vacant lot at 18th Avenue and 22nd Street. The chief said 
the seven-year department veteran had been spending the morning watching a 
corner that most days is used as an open-air drug market.


"He was doing the honorable thing, making sure the kids made it to school 
without any of those guys bothering them," Palamara said. "He could have 
been off somewhere reading the paper. He wasn't."


Police said the plate on the car driven by Colbert had been reported stolen 
in Essex County. The car had not been reported stolen, police said.


Some people hanging out on the corner of 22nd Street and 18th Avenue 
yesterday afternoon said Mildon had suspected Colbert of drug dealing and 
had been trying to arrest him for months.


"Everybody around here knows this cop was after Bilal," said Ayesha Fleming.


Colbert had been arrested a year ago by the Essex County Sheriff's Office's 
Bureau of Narcotics and was charged with selling cocaine. Bergrin, however, 
said Colbert was ready to go to trial later this month to fight the charges.


Palamara said he knew of no history between Colbert and Mildon.


Among the half-dozen witnesses interviewed by authorities was Luis Santana, 
the 23-year-old manager of Reyes' Grocery at 18th Avenue and 22nd Street.


Santana said he was taking the trash to the rear of his business when he 
spotted the officer talking to Colbert, who was behind the wheel of a gray 
Oldsmobile.


Police said Mildon had pulled in front of Colbert's car after Colbert 
stopped at the curb. Santana said the older of the two girls had come into 
his store before the shooting to buy Doritos and a fruit drink.


He said he was near the front door of his store when he heard the officer 
order Colbert out of the car.


"He kept telling him to 'step out of the car,'" Santana said. "The guy 
wasn't moving. The cop probably told him three or four times to get out of 
the car and he wouldn't."


Santana said Mildon was standing by the driver's door when the car suddenly 
lurched backward a foot or two, then stopped.


"I heard the guy yelling to the girls to get out of the car," Santana said. 
"He waited a few seconds for the girls to get out and then tried to take 
off."


Santana said it was not clear from his vantage point whether one or both 
girls were exiting the car when it began to lurch backward again, this time 
at an angle, toward the opposite curb.


Santana said that when the car began to move, the officer pulled the 
driver's door open with his left hand and drew his gun with his right.


"The cop couldn't have even aimed, it happened so fast," Santana said.


After the shooting, Santana said, the officer ran after the girls and 
disappeared around a corner.


The girls, 10-year-old Shaquita Boyd and 8-year-old Shanice Henry, were the 
daughters of Colbert's girlfriend, Tashonda Boyd, 25. But Colbert treated 
them as if they were his own children, Boyd said, and drove them to school 
every day.


The girls -- and the couple's own son, Bilal Colbert Jr., nearly 4 months 
old -- live with her parents, Barrie Boyd and Tim Branch, Tashonda Boyd 
said. Their home, on 22nd Street, is a 30-second walk from the shooting 
scene.


Five minutes after the shooting, around 8:30 a.m., Shanice ran screaming 
into her grandparents' two-story home.


"My granddaughter came in about 8:30 a.m. and said, 'Mama, they shot Bilal!' 
She was hysterical," said Barrie Boyd. "I got up and asked what she was 
talking about. She continued screaming. So I got dressed, came downstairs, 
and by then, somebody came knocking at the door. It was the police."


Standing at the front door was Mildon, police said. By then Shanice's 
sister, Shaquita, also had run home. Mildon whisked both girls away from the 
house, Boyd said.


Colbert and his girlfriend have been living on St. James Place in Newark, 
according to relatives. They did not know the exact address.


Colbert grew up on South 15th Street in Newark and attended Arts High 
School, according to his girlfriend.


He did various "odd jobs" for a living and worked occasionally as a barber 
at Nubian Kuts unisex salon on Springfield Avenue in Newark. Colbert also 
liked to bowl and participated in bowling leagues, his girlfriend said.


Staff writers Guy Sterling, Reginald Roberts, Mary Jo Patterson and Jeffrey 
Mays contributed to this report

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Post ID:1523
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-02 09:28:04
Subject:Re: [nbpcmembers] Killer cop strikes again in Irvington!!
Message:

ORGANIZE ! ORGANIZE ! ORGANIZE !



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1524
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-02 18:31:44
Subject:Fwd: Report from Vieques Press Conference on Capitol Hill
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Vieques Libre" <viequeslibre@...>
To: List Member <vivaohio@...>
Subject: Report from Vieques Press Conference on Capitol Hill
Date: 2 May 2001 20:09:56 -0000

Vieques Libre - http://www.viequeslibre.org

--------------------------- ListBot Sponsor --------------------------
Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com/links/joinlb
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The following Members of Congress participated in today's Press Conference
in front of the U.S. Capitol Building, calling for an immediate and
permanent end to U.S. military exercises in Vieques:


* Senator Charles Schumer of NY

* Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of NY

* Senator John Corzine of NJ

* Resident Commissioner Anibal Acevedo Vila of Puerto Rico

* Congressman Luis Gutierrez of Illinois

* Congressman Jose Serrano of NY

* Congresswoman Nydia Velazquez of NY

* Congressman Robert Menendez of NJ

* Congressman Charles Rangel of NY

* Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi of California

* Congressman Eliot Engle of NY

* Congressman Edolphus Townes of NY

* Bronx Borough President Fernando Ferrer also participated in the Press
Conference, and Damaso Serrano, Mayor of Vieques, issued a written
statement (see below) from San Juan were he was released from jail after
being arrested for entering the bombing range in Vieques, where he spent a
week acting as a human shield.

Contacts: Phil Singer (Sen. Schumer) at 202-224-7433 and Karen Dunn (Sen.
Clinton) at 202-224-4451.

Photos:

http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news?p=vieques&n=20&c=news_photos

____________


STATEMENT BY D�MASO SERRANO L�PEZ            Contact: Flavio Cumpiano
MAYOR OF VIEQUES, PUERTO RICO

May 2, 2001

First of all, I would like to thank everyone who has been, who is, and who
will keep on giving us support on this cause to stop the bombing in
Vieques.  My thanks to the Members of Congress who are gathered in front
of the Capitol building to call, once again, for the immediate and
permanent end to U.S. military exercises in Vieques.

I am the Mayor of that beautiful Island.  Today I represent the people
that struggle day to day to have a good life, with dignity, not only for
themselves but for their children.  I represent those men, women and even
children that are continuously dying, not only physically but also
emotionally, because of the unfair and senseless bombing of the U.S. Navy
in our lands.

Today, I am writing from San Juan, Puerto Rico.  I have spent the past
seven days -from Wednesday April 25 to Tuesday May 1st- in the bombing
range in Vieques, as have many others who have acted as human shields
against the bombings.  Prior to that, I was convinced that the Navy must
leave Vieques.  But after I saw how those ships were destroying my land
with their incendiary weapons and were leaving it in a catastrophic state,
aiming at us with the weapons that produce orphans in my island, I AM
ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT I WILL NOT STOP, THAT I WILL NOT TAKE ONE STEP BACK
UNTIL THE NAVY LEAVES MY VIEQUES, MY ISLA NENA.

President Bush, perhaps  you think that it was irresponsible of me to be
at the bombing range.  Well, I am the Mayor of the people of Vieques.  I
was following the mandate that my people gave me last November 7, and I
acted for their safety, health and well-being.  I acted and will continue
to act , to protect their dignity and their peace, as well.

We are citizens of the nation you lead, Mr. President.  We are U.S.
citizens.  I assumed the responsibility that I have as Mayor, to protect
my people against anything that could harm them.  It is time that you
assume yours.  If you let the Navy stay another minute in Vieques, you
will be as responsible as the Navy�s Kevin Green for the killing and the
suffering that is taking place there.  Every other person who dies in
Vieques or who gets ill by the toxics, the pollution and other harmful
effects from the Navy, will be on your conscience if you do not stop a
genocide that should have been stopped long ago.

President Bush, you are the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces and I
urge you once more to act now for the safety of my people, who are also
your people, Mr. President.  Until the Navy stops bombing and leaves
Vieques, our struggle for peace will continue.  Thank you.

__________


Congressman Jose E. Serrano
  NEWS   RELEASE

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE                     CONTACT: ROSALINDA DEJESUS

                                    Rosalinda.DeJesus@...
                                    (202) 225-4361

May 2, 2001

                SERRANO ASKS U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL TO EXAMINE ALLEGATIONS
ABOUT NAVY'S IMPROPER TREATMENT OF PROTESTERS

Washington, D.C., May 2 - - Congressman Jose E. Serrano (D-NY) today asked
U.S. Attorney General John D. Ashcroft to examine allegations that Navy
security officers improperly treated protesters who were arrested on
Vieques.

Serrano raised the issue during today's Commerce, Justice, State,
Judiciary and Related Agencies Subcommittee budget hearing at Rayburn
House Office Building. Ashcroft came before the Subcommittee of the
Appropriations Committee to present the Justice Department's budget needs.
Today, Serrano also participated in a press conference on Capitol Hill in
which members of Congress urged the administration to stop the bombing on
Vieques.

Serrano asked Ashcroft to address allegations that protesters who were
arrested were mistreated and that, for example, Congressman Luis
Gutierrez, who was arrested, was not allowed to post bail in a timely
fashion.

The following are excerpts from today's hearing:

"As you know there have been large demonstrations in the Commonwealth of
Puerto Rico and close to 200 people have been arrested," Serrano said.
"One of those individuals was Congressman Luis Gutierrez. He says that
most of the mistreatment was by the Navy, that the federal marshals
treated the demonstrators with respect and dignity. What information do
you have about how people were treated out there?"

Serrano also raised concerns that Gutierrez and other demonstrators
arrested by the Navy were placed in an unsanitary holding pen that was
used for guard dogs and had no roof.

"What role can the Justice Department play if Navy personnel mistreat
demonstrators?," Serrano said. "I would appreciate if you could look
further into this and get back to us."

Serrano, who made references to news reports about the protests as he
described the allegations, also said that President George W. Bush should
be speaking up about the Vieques issue and he has not done so.

Ashcroft responded by saying that he made an inquiry and was told that the
cases were processed by the U.S. Attorney in the order in which the
arrests were made and that if that information was incorrect he would be
happy to correct it. He also was told that separate facilities were used
to house the protesters who were arrested because there was concern about
housing them with the general prison population and there was concern
about the risk of
introducing these individuals to the criminal population.

Ashcroft went on to say that there may be constitutional questions that
arise out of this issue.

Please visit this site for more information:
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny16_serrano/~list.html


______________________________________________________________________
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Post ID:1525
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-02 23:17:30
Subject:Events to Defeat Racist Profiling...
Message:

Committee to Defeat Racist Profiling
Contact Joe Smith 732.729.0390 can_bush@...

Upcoming events/meetings as follows:

1. Saturday May 5 12:00 noon
Picket/Protest Irvington Police Headquarters. We Charge Genocide!  Action is 
being initiated by Peoples' Organization for Progress and NAACP in light of 
recent murder of unarmed black man by white officer who had murdered other 
black man 4 years earlier.

2. Saturday May 5 4:00 pm
Coalition For Justice meeting to continue to organize March on Trenton 
Statehouse May 16. March is to put forward and organize around community 
demands, mainly the call for Democratic Community Control Over Police. 
Meeting will be held at Imani Community Center, Trenton NJ.

3. Sunday May 6 1:00pm
Committee to Defeat Racist Profiling & Police Brutality local organizing 
meeting, New Brunswick Public Library. Meet to help organize throughout New 
Brunswick and surrounding area to raise consciousness and organization to 
Defeat Racist Profiling. Committee is working to arrange transportation 
(buses) and mortorcade to Trenton.
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1526
Sender:"JOSEPH MOSLEY" <joemosley1@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-03 16:15:34
Subject:Fwd: [nbpcmembers] account of NBPC in light of recent struggles
Message:

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your brilliant analysis, however, please allow me to indicate 
what I believe is a very importamt misconception (or should I say, flawed 
assumption) that runs like a thread through your otherwise very accurate 
analysis.

I deeply resent the implication that Ralph Nader's only role in the   past 
presidential campaign was as a "spoiler" to help the Bush campaign because:

a) It was a decision of THE GREEN PARTY to exercise our constitutional right 
to participate in the electoral process and support the candidates of our 
choice. It was not Ralph Nader's decision.

b) We were hoping that with Nader on national TV in the presidential 
debates, we would achieve national ballot status. The Presidential Debates 
Commission in collusion with both the Democratic and the Republican parties 
denied us the right to participate in the debates and prevented Nader from 
occupying his seat in the audience. They also  prevented him from keeping 
his scheduled appointment with the press. After this unfair, vindictive and 
malicious treatment, the Nader bashers are suggesting that he should "put 
his tail between his legs" and walk away, or worse, grovel and support the 
inept Mr.. Gore. Come on, where is your sense of justice?

c) If Ralph Nader had decided to drop out or to support Gore, the Green 
Party would consider this as a betrayal of our trust. His name would be held 
in less esteem than Murray Sabrin's is in Libertarian Party circles today.

Are you, and those who are criticizing Nader, either afraid to admit or do 
not realize that you are questioning the right of a political party to 
contest the hegemony of the Democratic and Republican parties?

Sometimes I wonder, is it naivet�, a misunderstanding of the issues involved 
or a Machiavellian attempt to marginalize the Green Party and eliminate a 
serious competitor for the minds of the progressive sector of the community?

Ross Perot ran a "solipsistic" campaign but he was not barred from the 
presidential debates nor was he denounced as a "spoiler." are we by default 
approving and supporting a plutocracy to the detriment and deterioration of 
the democratic process?

Please elucidate.

JoeMosley
1st Vice-Chair
Green Party of New Jersey


>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpcmembers] account of NBPC in light of recent struggles
>Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 20:08:37 -0000
>
I started writing this as a response to Matt Smith's comments (pasted
below), but decided that I should take it in the positive and start an 
account of where the NBPC's at,with some history. this is a work in
progress, but I was encouraged to post as-is.  Take a bite.  Paul
>
Yes, the NBPC is intended to be a united front. But the egroup ecludes 
everybody who doesn't have internet access.  But the egroup should still 
function under the same principles.
>
To address the expulsions from the egroup.  I think we should have
explicitly named Joe and Cliff when we de facto expelled them from the list. 
  But that does not make the reasons for doing it invalid.  the fact is that 
Joe and Cliff have been harassing people on email ever   since they stepped 
into the realm.  Just as Matt claimed people have left the NBPC after 
feeling "used by NJFO", many have left the egroup after enjoying the gravel 
enema supplied by "wac_ & can bush@...".
>
Harassment is no substitute for struggle. And having unity doesn't give you 
the right to yell at people repeatedly.
>
And that goes for NJFO as well as the campaign.   Matt complains that the 
NBPC hasn't adopted a method to work out differences.  I'm not arguing with 
that.
>
Maybe a better question is: "How do we work together despite our
differences?"
>
To this end, how do we further our collective understanding of our movement? 
  I think we need to explore the different trends in our movement to 
accomplish that.
>
Step back again:
>
I guess we really need to figure out what was the nature of the campaign to 
start to address this mess. I'm going to try to address a few points this 
time (because I'm doing this at work, not because I want to duck 
discussion).
>
Was the NBPC election campaign a Left Bloc move?
>
Yes.  Why?  Because efforts were coordinated among progressives, working 
people, people of conscience of different nationalities, students, Greens, 
anarchists, communists, liberals, Democrats, a Republican, small business, 
small landlords and others who have various reasons to be against vicious 
imperialist political and economic takeovers of the cities and subsequent 
attempts to destroy all vestiges of popular, public and progressive 
institutions.
>

Was it perfect?   No.  Did it include equal proportions of the
aforementioned groups? No.
>
But no one said that we're going to organize all people of oppressed
nationalities and the highly exploited workers in NB in just one year. 
That's a multiple year project.
>
And who we organize is not simply a function of putting out the correct 
political stance---NJFO started the campaign.  We started with our existing 
networks.  That means mostly Euro-American, college-educated folks.  Truly 
changing the relations of the struggle for wholesale involvement of people 
outside NJFO's previously existing
networks means accessing and working in other networks.  It means 
penetrating the cultural boundaries that have been reinforced by racism and 
segregation ever since the US was founded.
>
Did we do a good job of accessing those networks?  Yes and No.
>
There were many attempts made by members to reach out and involve groups of 
all types.  Some of these succeeded. Some didn't.  Did we get people's votes 
from different networks/communities/neighborhoods/nationalities?  That's not 
clear, but anecdotal evidence says 'yes' to a degree. we still have to do 
the hard research, if possible.
>
Does the NBPC continue to outreach to different parties in a way that
communicates analyses of the issues and seeks unity on relevant points? Is 
the campaign politically relevant?  Is the NBPC a relevant political group?  
I think that's where this dispute is live right now.
>
i think the NBPC is a decentralized network of activists with multiple
layers of affiliation. There isn't much clarity right now around the NBPC's 
structure.  The steering committee is technically charged with guiding the 
thing, but initiative may give the best results. Many
people groove with the bottom-up approach to organizing, but it doesn't make 
for a tight organization. I'm not saying we need tight organization. I tend 
to think not.  When we get into the next election period, we'll need a much 
higher level of coordination, centralization.
>
but right now, many different trends are working on many many issues. This 
is giving us the chance to ultimately expand our membership ranks 
exponentially.  Below I lay out a rough sketch of the trends:
>
(one disclaimer: I'm definitely biased toward the political direction of my 
own work (which is NJFO and Arthouse), and I think others should contribute 
their versions so we can construct an intersubjective picture of the NBPC's 
politics)
>
The U&S (Unity and Struggle) trend, a faction in NJFO, contends that putting 
out propaganda is the principal task right now. The idea there seems to be 
education about the broad forces at work in our world, exposure and 
indictment of the ruling classes and programmatic suggestions about changing 
our conditions.  Proposals include working with state Democrats to get 
McGreevey into office. I'm not sure what else is on their plate.
>
Another trend in the campaign could be described as student organizers. 
These folks have been working on globalization issues, winning governing 
association seats, uniting with existing student groups. They were a major 
presence on campus and in the city during
the fall 2000.  I think of this trend as more loosely organized as others, 
but with the potential to develop many organizers from student ranks.
>
Another trend, best described as a majority of NJFO, is focusing on 
developing organizers and issues of space, setting up an organizing 
workshop, some are using important elected positions on campus to advance 
democracy and revolutionary principles.  Many work on Arthouse, campus 
organizing, FTAA, etc.
>
Lastly, the largest trend may be people who act on various issues related to 
New Brunswick: many are working on the Court Tavern issue, housing and 
redevelopment, schools, Sisterhood Day, nbpc newspaper, etc.
>
One conclusion I have is:  NBPC in general has failed to consistently
publish analyses of current issues, local and global and in-between and that 
needs improvement.
>
>   *********

Another NBPC issue dating back to last fall: Compromise. Did we make
compromises during the election season? Yes, but this is tricky.
>
The Fall 2000 campaign was probably the most manic, sustained and widely 
lauded organizing episode around here in many years.
>
The U&S trend contends that the NBPC leadership compromised on its
principles to make the alliance with Greens.  They contend that the campaign 
should have taken a position for Gore and against Bush and Nader in the 
national election, but the thought of that was thrown out because the 
leadership feared we'd lose the cooperation of Greens.
>
I have a simple comparison to offer here.
>
The U&S trend of NJFO pushed hard to condemn Nader because his campaign was 
irresponsible politics.  That he acted as a spoiler (whether he was or not 
is a hinge of this debate).  I happen to agree with that sentiment.
>
An issue of Unity and Struggle newspaper was laid out and included an
one-sided article against Nader. That was going to be produced through
NJFO and officially separate from the NBPC.  The U&S faction contends that 
NJFO members who were in the leadership of the NBPC canned that issue of the 
newspaper because of divided loyalty over the Nader issue.  They say that 
Nader was against the interests of working people in cities, etc. (much of 
which I agree with). The U&S faction went on to say that the NBPC alliance 
with Greens caused a compromise in ideological values and that our failure 
to put out a position on the national election caused us to be less relevant 
with voters in NB.
>
But it's not that simple.  Most of the students who organized for   Nader 
were far to the Left of the Nadir that he was.  Most of them had an 
anti-imperialist bent, they wanted to work in the NB neighborhoods. They 
were enthusiastic and took initiative, and- this may be news to people who 
weren't working everyday on the campaign during the last two months- but 
they were the best thing that could have happened for those of us who needed 
the third shift to come at the eleventh hour.  But if you didn't work ninety 
hour weeks for six weeks straight you wouldn't know that.
>
did we compromise our principles with the Greens?  No, I say, because we 
united with them on our principles as they are applied to the local 
struggle.  I'm sorry, but you are not going to unite on global issues with 
people the moment you meet them.  I think it's enough to establish unity on 
some key questions, but not reasonable to expect it on ALL questions.
>
(even further, it's fair to say that you may NEVER approach unity on some 
questions with major allies in politics.  that's how politics works. 
sectarians expect resolution on all questions and see unity as some sort of 
an absolute)
>
For all the historical materialists out there who believe in using
dialectics to analyze these situations, Chew on this....
>
Nadir was but one aspect of the national elections 2000.  The fxxxxxx
Democrats, the supposed party of the working people, spent the last twenty 
years trying to imitate Republicans.  The Republicans have spent that time 
solidifying their strongholds in the suburbs. The two major parties always 
vie for the undecided vote in the election season. So the Democrats ended up 
fighting with the Republicans over the undecided middle class suburban 
audience. But the Dems' largest
voting bloc is progressive, mostly urban, oppressed nationalities.
>
(Matthew, circulated a packet of articles after the elections.  The
article by Bob Wing explains how the Democrats rely on this base while they 
talk Republican to the undecided vote, among other things.)
>
Talk about fxxxxx up.  The dems are sold to imperialism. period. But here's 
the dialectical slap in the face.  You say the NBPC compromised
its principles by avoiding Nadir criticism, but the national Democrats were 
the principal contradictory aspect of the last election. If they had any 
sort of progressive leaning, if they wanted to register voters of oppressed 
nationalities, if they wanted to get out the vote in cities, they would have 
won this election hands down.
>
And now the kicker.  If it's a valid criticism to hold off on Nadir last 
fall, then it's surely valid to criticize Keith for calling the upcoming 
pamphlet on the NBPC politically detrimental to working with the State 
Democrats.  I personally have a great loathing for the Dems right now.  They 
propose proto-fascist laws locally, they participate
in ethnic cleansing.  I don't think we know how much worse the NJ
Republicans actually are. How much worse could they be?
>
Phew, That's all I'm capable of right now.
>
>   Paul

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Post ID:1527
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-05 18:32:48
Subject:Re: Fake Democracy
Message:

(let's open the debate, waste the republicans, expose the snakes)

to joe, let's really elect the republican, fortunato -

the republican party most "impedes the development of independent political 
action."!

don't give me shit about studying communism when your actions worked to put 
bush2 into his illegitimate position.

"we are not on the verge of fascism", what is it that "we" are on the verge 
of? what is it that faison is on the verge of?

the "INDEPENDENT movement" cannot win an election on a national or state 
level. why don't the greens go after a city council position or school board 
position and build the peoples base in such a fashion?  currently the greens 
lie to the people and you posture as a progressive while you do the work for 
the representatives of the peoples' worst enemy, the republican party!
the republicans represent the most vicous elements of imperialism, yes more 
than the democrats. to say otherwise is a lie and will expose yourself as a 
phony. the progressive vote will build a temporary alliance with mcgreasy to 
waste franks/schundler.

republicans in the garbage can!
defeat racist profiling! -vote McGreasy
joe smith


>From: JFortun845@...
>To: can_bush@...
>Subject: Re: Fake Democracy
>Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 10:37:19 EDT
>
Hey Joe:

I think I'll send you a copy of "Left-wing Communism: An Infantile 
Disorder."

The fact is, we are not yet on the verge of the imposition of fascism in 
this country. The further fact is, the leadership of the Democratic Party is 
just as much under the stranglehold of the big Bourgeosie as is the 
leadership of the Republicans. The further reality is that the only way to 
beat back the reactionaries is by building an "INDEPENDENT Peoples Movement.

Your romanticized as opposed to a scientific viewpoint about where we stand 
impedes the development of independent political action.

Joe
>


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Post ID:1528
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-05 18:35:03
Subject:Maybe Bush2 will name a concentration camp after Nader
Message:

March on Trenton May 16 - Defeat Racist Profiling!

Organize the Peoples' Defensive, Vote McGreasy!
Charade hearings and the New Jersey sell-out.

Verneiro is guilty of withholding, covering, destroying, forgetting,
lying, and loosing information that proves he knew full well about
Racist Profiling and did nothing to stop it. He did nothing to stop
this White Supremacy Imperialist aggression and instead encouraged and
fueled the practice. It was Verneiro that was with Whitman and other
high ranking State officials while they ran up on Camden youth Sherron
Rolax and "made" Whitman into the most organized group of white
supremacy in the states, the Republican Party. Whitman, x-chief of the
State Police Carl Williams, and the state of New Jersey are currently
being sued by Rolax for this "frisk" and they are all guilty.

For Verneiro not to be impeached is a serious attack on the people of
New Jersey and exposes that we have a fake democracy. We, the people of
New Jersey must make  our voices heard this November when we bury the
Republican candidate for Governor. DeFrancesco jumped, now Franks/
Schundler must be dumped. New Jersey must send a message to the nation
that the people oppose the Racist Republican Party which is clearly
responsible for the growth of these profiling attacks. To this end we
must back McGreasy to carry out our task. Not because we got any love
for Greasy, but because we must waste the Republican candidate. Third
party candidates under present conditions should support this strategy
and join the people in backing Greasy. We can not afford for what
happened nationally, with Nader putting Bush2 into his illigitamate
precidency, to be repeated in this Governor's race.

The progressive vote must be aimed at wasting the Republican candidate
and the way we must carry this out is through building a temporary
allaince with McGreasy. The people of New Jersey and the people of the
United States need to rise up against the open agenda of White
Supremacy that is being carried out in its most aggressive form by the
Republican Party .

Defeat Racist Profiling! -vote McGreasy

Joe Smith
Committee to Defeat Racist Profiling

732.729.0390
211 Redmond St. #2
New Brunswick, NJ 08901
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1529
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-05 18:52:27
Subject:Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: [nbpcmembers] account of NBPC in light of recent struggles
Message:

maybe bush2 will name a concentration camp after nader


>From: "JOSEPH MOSLEY" <joemosley1@...>
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, shorepaulie@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, gpnj-members@...
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: [nbpcmembers] account of NBPC in light 
>of recent struggles
>Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 16:15:34 -0400
>
>Hi Paul,
>
>Thanks for your brilliant analysis, however, please allow me to indicate
>what I believe is a very importamt misconception (or should I say, flawed
>assumption) that runs like a thread through your otherwise very accurate
>analysis.
>
>I deeply resent the implication that Ralph Nader's only role in the   past
>presidential campaign was as a "spoiler" to help the Bush campaign because:
>
>a) It was a decision of THE GREEN PARTY to exercise our constitutional 
>right
>to participate in the electoral process and support the candidates of our
>choice. It was not Ralph Nader's decision.
>
>b) We were hoping that with Nader on national TV in the presidential
>debates, we would achieve national ballot status. The Presidential Debates
>Commission in collusion with both the Democratic and the Republican parties
>denied us the right to participate in the debates and prevented Nader from
>occupying his seat in the audience. They also  prevented him from keeping
>his scheduled appointment with the press. After this unfair, vindictive and
>malicious treatment, the Nader bashers are suggesting that he should "put
>his tail between his legs" and walk away, or worse, grovel and support the
>inept Mr.. Gore. Come on, where is your sense of justice?
>
>c) If Ralph Nader had decided to drop out or to support Gore, the Green
>Party would consider this as a betrayal of our trust. His name would be 
>held
>in less esteem than Murray Sabrin's is in Libertarian Party circles today.
>
>Are you, and those who are criticizing Nader, either afraid to admit or do
>not realize that you are questioning the right of a political party to
>contest the hegemony of the Democratic and Republican parties?
>
>Sometimes I wonder, is it naivet�, a misunderstanding of the issues 
>involved
>or a Machiavellian attempt to marginalize the Green Party and eliminate a
>serious competitor for the minds of the progressive sector of the 
>community?
>
>Ross Perot ran a "solipsistic" campaign but he was not barred from the
>presidential debates nor was he denounced as a "spoiler." are we by default
>approving and supporting a plutocracy to the detriment and deterioration of
>the democratic process?
>
>Please elucidate.
>
>JoeMosley
>1st Vice-Chair
>Green Party of New Jersey
>
>
> >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [nbpcmembers] account of NBPC in light of recent struggles
> >Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 20:08:37 -0000
> >
>I started writing this as a response to Matt Smith's comments (pasted
>below), but decided that I should take it in the positive and start an
>account of where the NBPC's at,with some history. this is a work in
>progress, but I was encouraged to post as-is.  Take a bite.  Paul
> >
>Yes, the NBPC is intended to be a united front. But the egroup ecludes
>everybody who doesn't have internet access.  But the egroup should still
>function under the same principles.
> >
>To address the expulsions from the egroup.  I think we should have
>explicitly named Joe and Cliff when we de facto expelled them from the 
>list.
>   But that does not make the reasons for doing it invalid.  the fact is 
>that
>Joe and Cliff have been harassing people on email ever   since they stepped
>into the realm.  Just as Matt claimed people have left the NBPC after
>feeling "used by NJFO", many have left the egroup after enjoying the gravel
>enema supplied by "wac_ & can bush@...".
> >
>Harassment is no substitute for struggle. And having unity doesn't give you
>the right to yell at people repeatedly.
> >
>And that goes for NJFO as well as the campaign.   Matt complains that the
>NBPC hasn't adopted a method to work out differences.  I'm not arguing with
>that.
> >
>Maybe a better question is: "How do we work together despite our
>differences?"
> >
>To this end, how do we further our collective understanding of our 
>movement?
>   I think we need to explore the different trends in our movement to
>accomplish that.
> >
>Step back again:
> >
>I guess we really need to figure out what was the nature of the campaign to
>start to address this mess. I'm going to try to address a few points this
>time (because I'm doing this at work, not because I want to duck
>discussion).
> >
>Was the NBPC election campaign a Left Bloc move?
> >
>Yes.  Why?  Because efforts were coordinated among progressives, working
>people, people of conscience of different nationalities, students, Greens,
>anarchists, communists, liberals, Democrats, a Republican, small business,
>small landlords and others who have various reasons to be against vicious
>imperialist political and economic takeovers of the cities and subsequent
>attempts to destroy all vestiges of popular, public and progressive
>institutions.
> >
>
>Was it perfect?   No.  Did it include equal proportions of the
>aforementioned groups? No.
> >
>But no one said that we're going to organize all people of oppressed
>nationalities and the highly exploited workers in NB in just one year.
>That's a multiple year project.
> >
>And who we organize is not simply a function of putting out the correct
>political stance---NJFO started the campaign.  We started with our existing
>networks.  That means mostly Euro-American, college-educated folks.  Truly
>changing the relations of the struggle for wholesale involvement of people
>outside NJFO's previously existing
>networks means accessing and working in other networks.  It means
>penetrating the cultural boundaries that have been reinforced by racism and
>segregation ever since the US was founded.
> >
>Did we do a good job of accessing those networks?  Yes and No.
> >
>There were many attempts made by members to reach out and involve groups of
>all types.  Some of these succeeded. Some didn't.  Did we get people's 
>votes
>from different networks/communities/neighborhoods/nationalities?  That's 
>not
>clear, but anecdotal evidence says 'yes' to a degree. we still have to do
>the hard research, if possible.
> >
>Does the NBPC continue to outreach to different parties in a way that
>communicates analyses of the issues and seeks unity on relevant points? Is
>the campaign politically relevant?  Is the NBPC a relevant political group?
>I think that's where this dispute is live right now.
> >
>i think the NBPC is a decentralized network of activists with multiple
>layers of affiliation. There isn't much clarity right now around the NBPC's
>structure.  The steering committee is technically charged with guiding the
>thing, but initiative may give the best results. Many
>people groove with the bottom-up approach to organizing, but it doesn't 
>make
>for a tight organization. I'm not saying we need tight organization. I tend
>to think not.  When we get into the next election period, we'll need a much
>higher level of coordination, centralization.
> >
>but right now, many different trends are working on many many issues. This
>is giving us the chance to ultimately expand our membership ranks
>exponentially.  Below I lay out a rough sketch of the trends:
> >
>(one disclaimer: I'm definitely biased toward the political direction of my
>own work (which is NJFO and Arthouse), and I think others should contribute
>their versions so we can construct an intersubjective picture of the NBPC's
>politics)
> >
>The U&S (Unity and Struggle) trend, a faction in NJFO, contends that 
>putting
>out propaganda is the principal task right now. The idea there seems to be
>education about the broad forces at work in our world, exposure and
>indictment of the ruling classes and programmatic suggestions about 
>changing
>our conditions.  Proposals include working with state Democrats to get
>McGreevey into office. I'm not sure what else is on their plate.
> >
>Another trend in the campaign could be described as student organizers.
>These folks have been working on globalization issues, winning governing
>association seats, uniting with existing student groups. They were a major
>presence on campus and in the city during
>the fall 2000.  I think of this trend as more loosely organized as others,
>but with the potential to develop many organizers from student ranks.
> >
>Another trend, best described as a majority of NJFO, is focusing on
>developing organizers and issues of space, setting up an organizing
>workshop, some are using important elected positions on campus to advance
>democracy and revolutionary principles.  Many work on Arthouse, campus
>organizing, FTAA, etc.
> >
>Lastly, the largest trend may be people who act on various issues related 
>to
>New Brunswick: many are working on the Court Tavern issue, housing and
>redevelopment, schools, Sisterhood Day, nbpc newspaper, etc.
> >
>One conclusion I have is:  NBPC in general has failed to consistently
>publish analyses of current issues, local and global and in-between and 
>that
>needs improvement.
> >
> >   *********
>
>Another NBPC issue dating back to last fall: Compromise. Did we make
>compromises during the election season? Yes, but this is tricky.
> >
>The Fall 2000 campaign was probably the most manic, sustained and widely
>lauded organizing episode around here in many years.
> >
>The U&S trend contends that the NBPC leadership compromised on its
>principles to make the alliance with Greens.  They contend that the 
>campaign
>should have taken a position for Gore and against Bush and Nader in the
>national election, but the thought of that was thrown out because the
>leadership feared we'd lose the cooperation of Greens.
> >
>I have a simple comparison to offer here.
> >
>The U&S trend of NJFO pushed hard to condemn Nader because his campaign was
>irresponsible politics.  That he acted as a spoiler (whether he was or not
>is a hinge of this debate).  I happen to agree with that sentiment.
> >
>An issue of Unity and Struggle newspaper was laid out and included an
>one-sided article against Nader. That was going to be produced through
>NJFO and officially separate from the NBPC.  The U&S faction contends that
>NJFO members who were in the leadership of the NBPC canned that issue of 
>the
>newspaper because of divided loyalty over the Nader issue.  They say that
>Nader was against the interests of working people in cities, etc. (much of
>which I agree with). The U&S faction went on to say that the NBPC alliance
>with Greens caused a compromise in ideological values and that our failure
>to put out a position on the national election caused us to be less 
>relevant
>with voters in NB.
> >
>But it's not that simple.  Most of the students who organized for   Nader
>were far to the Left of the Nadir that he was.  Most of them had an
>anti-imperialist bent, they wanted to work in the NB neighborhoods. They
>were enthusiastic and took initiative, and- this may be news to people who
>weren't working everyday on the campaign during the last two months- but
>they were the best thing that could have happened for those of us who 
>needed
>the third shift to come at the eleventh hour.  But if you didn't work 
>ninety
>hour weeks for six weeks straight you wouldn't know that.
> >
>did we compromise our principles with the Greens?  No, I say, because we
>united with them on our principles as they are applied to the local
>struggle.  I'm sorry, but you are not going to unite on global issues with
>people the moment you meet them.  I think it's enough to establish unity on
>some key questions, but not reasonable to expect it on ALL questions.
> >
>(even further, it's fair to say that you may NEVER approach unity on some
>questions with major allies in politics.  that's how politics works.
>sectarians expect resolution on all questions and see unity as some sort of
>an absolute)
> >
>For all the historical materialists out there who believe in using
>dialectics to analyze these situations, Chew on this....
> >
>Nadir was but one aspect of the national elections 2000.  The fxxxxxx
>Democrats, the supposed party of the working people, spent the last twenty
>years trying to imitate Republicans.  The Republicans have spent that time
>solidifying their strongholds in the suburbs. The two major parties always
>vie for the undecided vote in the election season. So the Democrats ended 
>up
>fighting with the Republicans over the undecided middle class suburban
>audience. But the Dems' largest
>voting bloc is progressive, mostly urban, oppressed nationalities.
> >
>(Matthew, circulated a packet of articles after the elections.  The
>article by Bob Wing explains how the Democrats rely on this base while they
>talk Republican to the undecided vote, among other things.)
> >
>Talk about fxxxxx up.  The dems are sold to imperialism. period. But here's
>the dialectical slap in the face.  You say the NBPC compromised
>its principles by avoiding Nadir criticism, but the national Democrats were
>the principal contradictory aspect of the last election. If they had any
>sort of progressive leaning, if they wanted to register voters of oppressed
>nationalities, if they wanted to get out the vote in cities, they would 
>have
>won this election hands down.
> >
>And now the kicker.  If it's a valid criticism to hold off on Nadir last
>fall, then it's surely valid to criticize Keith for calling the upcoming
>pamphlet on the NBPC politically detrimental to working with the State
>Democrats.  I personally have a great loathing for the Dems right now.  
>They
>propose proto-fascist laws locally, they participate
>in ethnic cleansing.  I don't think we know how much worse the NJ
>Republicans actually are. How much worse could they be?
> >
>Phew, That's all I'm capable of right now.
> >
> >   Paul
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1530
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-06 12:17:28
Subject:republicans...close to home!
Message:

Soaries picked by Franks to run campaign 

               Published in the Home News Tribune 5/05/01 

               By BETH ROSENBERG
               STAFF WRITER

               Republican Bob Franks added some weight to his 
gubernatorial bid yesterday with the announcement that New Jersey 
Secretary of
               State DeForest B. Soaries will serve as campaign co-
chairman.

               "Buster Soaries brings a tremendous wealth of experience 
to my campaign for governor," said Franks. "I am looking forward to his
               leadership and guidance as I conduct a campaign focused 
on the issues of importance to New Jersey voters."

               Franks entered the governor's race last week after 
acting Gov. Donald DiFrancesco dropped out, citing growing media 
scrutiny of his
               business dealings.

               Franks -- a four-term congressman who represented the 
7th District and narrowly lost last year's U.S. Senate race to Democrat 
Jon
               Corzine -- faces a GOP primary battle next month against 
Jersey City Mayor Bret Schundler.

               Soaries, who serves as senior pastor of the the First 
Baptist Church of Lincoln Gardens in Somerset, was once considered a 
possible
               gubernatorial candidate. He had hoped a minority 
candidate would enter the race, but when no one did, there was 
speculation he would
               throw his hat in the ring.

               Last December, Soaries, who is black, announced at a 
Sunday morning service at his church that he would not seek the 
governorship
               but promised to ensure that the next governor would pay 
attention to issues of concern to the state's minority community.

               At the time of his announcement, he did not endorse 
DiFrancesco or presumed Democratic nominee Woodbridge Mayor Jim
               McGreevey.

               Upon hearing yesterday of Soaries' position in the 
Franks campaign, McGreevey spokesman Richard McGrath said, "That 
selection
               solicits the first compliment of the campaign from Jim 
McGreevey to Bob Franks. He congratulated Mr. Franks. He thinks it's a 
wise
               decision."

               McGreevey "likes and respects" Soaries, McGrath said, 
adding Soaries' decision to support Franks is not a surprise because 
he's been
               working for a Republican administration.

               "If we don't have (his support) now, we hope to have it 
after Election Day," McGrath said.

               Soaries said Franks understands the needs of Garden 
State residents.

               "Bob Franks is the candidate with the clear vision, 
unbiased compassion and unfailing integrity who will continue building 
on these
               great strides and propel New Jersey forward as we move 
toward the future," Soaries said. "I am humbled and honored to serve as
               campaign co-chairman and look forward to working to 
elect him as New Jersey's 51st governor."

               Franks campaign manager Charlie Smith said Franks and 
Soaries have known each other for years and the minister has served as 
an
               informal adviser to him.

               Franks' congressional district included parts of 
Somerset County, including Franklin, where Soaries' church is located.

               "Bob has relied on the Reverend Soaries throughout his 
term in Congress and, during last year's Senate race, they made it a 
point to
               communicate with each other regarding campaign 
activities," Smith said. "Bob Franks has demonstrated a sensitivity to 
issues of
               concern to the minority community.

               Smith said that Soaries is a nationally recognized 
leader and Franks is "tremendously grateful" for his support.

               Beth Rosenberg: (732) 565-7261. E-mail brosenb@...

               from the Home News Tribune 

               Published: May 5, 2001








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1531
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-06 12:43:36
Subject:Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: [RUGreens] Re: Fake Democracy
Message:

faison was killed under whitman's administration.


>From: jfortun845@...
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: jkaminsk@..., can_bush@...
>CC: JFortun845@..., rugreens@yahoogroups.com, 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, 
>njfo@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Re: [RUGreens] Re: Fake Democracy
>Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 10:28:31 EDT
>
>Joseph Smith:
>
>Well, the Faison killing occurred under a Democratic Administration, didn't
>it? So did the incarceration of hundreds of thousands of Black and Latino
>youth under the guise of their phony drug war, which only Nader spoke out
>against. So did more state sanctioned killings under a strengthened death
>penalty. So did the killing of tens of thousands of Iraqi children because 
>of
>the Clinton/Gore sanctions.
>
>And by the way, we  Greens do run in local elections and will do so
>increasingly. We've elected a school board member in Rutherford. We just
>don't tack on ultra-left language to the end of a reformist program and
>expect to win people over.
>
>Let's get real. Both major parties are parties of the Big Bourgeoisie
>revisionists and apologists have been arguing since before World war two 
>that
>we have to support the Democratic Party because fascism is right around the
>corner. Yeah, and the sky is falling, too. Employ a CLASS ANALYSIS, build 
>an
>independent peoples movement and throw BOTH the DEMS and REPUBS in the
>garbage can!

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1532
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-06 12:45:44
Subject:Fwd: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: [RUGreens] Re: Fake Democracy
Message:


jfortune500:

a "class analysis" demands recognizing contradictions w/in the enemy,
recognizing which battles can be won, and avoiding those that cant,
& optimizing conditions in which to build a "peoples' movement."

nadir did none! of those.  the class which benefited from his campaign is 
the imperialist bourgeoisie, who loves the bush2 whitehouse.

stop fronting

cs


 >From: jfortun845@...
 >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
 >To: jkaminsk@..., can_bush@...
 >CC: JFortun845@..., rugreens@yahoogroups.com,
 >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com,
> >njfo@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Re: [RUGreens] Re: Fake Democracy
> >Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 10:28:31 EDT
> >
> >Joseph Smith:
> >
> >Well, the Faison killing occurred under a Democratic Administration, 
>didn't
> >it? So did the incarceration of hundreds of thousands of Black and Latino
> >youth under the guise of their phony drug war, which only Nader spoke out
> >against. So did more state sanctioned killings under a strengthened death
> >penalty. So did the killing of tens of thousands of Iraqi children 
>because
> >of
> >the Clinton/Gore sanctions.
> >
> >And by the way, we  Greens do run in local elections and will do so
> >increasingly. We've elected a school board member in Rutherford. We just
> >don't tack on ultra-left language to the end of a reformist program and
> >expect to win people over.
> >
> >Let's get real. Both major parties are parties of the Big Bourgeoisie
> >revisionists and apologists have been arguing since before World war two
> >that
> >we have to support the Democratic Party because fascism is right around 
>the
> >corner. Yeah, and the sky is falling, too. Employ a CLASS ANALYSIS, build
> >an
> >independent peoples movement and throw BOTH the DEMS and REPUBS in the
> >garbage can!
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1533
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-06 22:13:15
Subject:Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: [RUGreens] Re: Fake Democracy
Message:

fortune500 said:
"I also dispute that it will be easier for us to organize under the 
Democrats. At least with Bush, we know more clearly what we're getting and 
can organize accordingly. The Democrats sow confusion by talking a peoples 
game when it suits them but by carrying out an imperialist agenda, as they 
must."

bush2 says, "hey fortunato - hand me those nails, this concentration camp 
should be done soon. wow, good work - thanks for volunteering!"

joe500 was it better that hitler rose to power for the german independent 
movement?

u talk slick & u front big - try to blame me for the weakness of the 
independent movement. nader/greens could have organized more succsessfully 
if they embraced the progressive movement instead of being phonies while 
trying to claim the progressive movement. the progressive vote was aimed at 
wasting bush2 and for the populace it was succsessful despite your 
organizations backward campaign.

u think your too good for criticism and i should just hammer bush, how 
conveneint that would be for you to accomplish the same task in new jersey.

u got nada
joe




>From: JFortun845@...
>To: can_bush@..., coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com,        
>jkaminsk@...
>CC: JFortun845@..., rugreens@yahoogroups.com,        
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, njfo@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: [RUGreens] Re: Fake Democracy
>Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 17:48:58 EDT
>
>
>Yes, Earl was killed under a Whitman administration but also under a
>Clinton/Gore administration. BTW, the Feds were involved in Orange with the
>breaking down of doors and rounding up of Black men who "fit the
>description." Have you seen the Stolen Lives Project book? It documents 
>over
>2,000 cases of police killings that have occurred nationally in the last 
>few
>years--all of them under the Clinton/Gore administration. It was the
>Clinton/Gore administration that continued and strengthened draconian
>criminal laws aimed at the poor. It was Clinton/Gore that gave us "welfare
>reform," a further war on the poor.
>
>I also dispute that it will be easier for us to organize under the 
>Democrats.
>At least with Bush, we know more clearly what we're getting and can 
>organize
>accordingly. The Democrats sow confusion by talking a peoples game when it
>suits them but by carrying out an imperialist agenda, as they must.
>
>By the way, it was Clinton/Gore that lost the election. Blame them, not
>Nader, for the disenfranchisement of over 30,000 black men and women in
>Florida as a result of their phony drug war. They only needed six hundred
>votes but tens of thousands of Blacks lost their right to vote. Talk about
>the chickens coming home to roost.
>
>Are we too weak right now for independent political action.Well, what's new
>and on the rise will eventually overcome what's old and in the way. And we
>wouldn't be nearly as weak if folks like you would join the movement for
>independent political action.
>
>Bash Bush, not Nader.
>Repudiate your moribund "popular Front" political line.
>Build the Movement for Independent Political Action.
>Support Jerry Coleman, Green Party, for governor of NJ.
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1534
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-06 12:42:41
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] Re: Fake Democracy
Message:

i do support an independent movement.
currently the independents stand no chance in winning the governor's seat. 
just because the greens hold one school board seat in rutherford and maybe 
another seat somewhere else in the state does not mean the greens stand a 
chance for statewide positions. let alone all the other independent 
candidates that will also objectively serve the republicans.

i did not put forward that facism is around the corner nor have i attributed 
ultra-left slogans anywhere in our correspondence. i would definitely 
appreciate if you would stop lying and putting words in my mouth. if you 
think that i have, show me/us where.

the greens represent the republicans, that is the class analysis i come up 
with. don't you see how your rugreen joe kamiski jumped right on franks lap. 
let alone the phony progressive positions nader put out while being embraced 
by bush2 to divide the anti-bush vote.

joe



>From: JFortun845@...
>To: jkaminsk@..., can_bush@...
>CC: JFortun845@..., rugreens@yahoogroups.com,        
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com,     
>    njfo@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [RUGreens] Re: Fake Democracy
>Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 10:28:31 EDT
>
>Joseph Smith:
>
>Well, the Faison killing occurred under a Democratic Administration, didn't
>it? So did the incarceration of hundreds of thousands of Black and Latino
>youth under the guise of their phony drug war, which only Nader spoke out
>against. So did more state sanctioned killings under a strengthened death
>penalty. So did the killing of tens of thousands of Iraqi children because 
>of
>the Clinton/Gore sanctions.
>
>And by the way, we  Greens do run in local elections and will do so
>increasingly. We've elected a school board member in Rutherford. We just
>don't tack on ultra-left language to the end of a reformist program and
>expect to win people over.
>
>Let's get real. Both major parties are parties of the Big Bourgeoisie
>revisionists and apologists have been arguing since before World war two 
>that
>we have to support the Democratic Party because fascism is right around the
>corner. Yeah, and the sky is falling, too. Employ a CLASS ANALYSIS, build 
>an
>independent peoples movement and throw BOTH the DEMS and REPUBS in the
>garbage can!

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1535
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-08 01:08:45
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: [nbpcmembers] account of NBPC in light of recent struggles
Message:

WE MUST KEEP BEING SELF-DISCIPLINE AND SELF-STUDY .
AND TRY NOT TO BE VIOLENCE LIKE BOL/SWORD
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1536
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-08 01:00:53
Subject:Re: [njfo] Re: Fake Democracy
Message:

 I WILL DEBATE YOU IN OPEN AND PUBLIC PLACE .



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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Post ID:1537
Sender:JeanRoss55@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-08 22:51:48
Subject:Rallies for Justice
Message:

Dear Friend and Justice Seeker,

       I am writing to give you information that I think you will find of 
interest about two activities that will take place at the Statehouse in 
Trenton next week.

On MONDAY, MAY 14, NEW JERSEYANS FOR A DEATH PENALTY MORATORIUM will hold a 
noon rally in support of proposed legislation, A-1853, for a moratorium on 
the death penalty in New Jersey. Senator Corzine and others will address the 
rally. Supporters of a moratorium share a historical commitment to social 
justice for all. We believe that criminal procedures are inconsistent and 
weighted against the poor, the powerless, members of minority groups and 
persons with mental and developmental disabilities.  Errors have led to the 
punishment and execution of the innocent.  The death penalty is also costly 
and unproven as a deterrent. Therefore, we will urge the Governor to declare 
an immediate moratorium, pending legislative action. A moratorium would allow 
time for investigation into inequities, cost, and trial and sentencing 
errors, as well as consideration of alternative methods that may better 
address problems of societal violence.

On WEDNESDAY, MAY 16, the COALITION FOR JUSTICE, a diverse statewide group of 
over 40 community organizations, has organized a march and rally in response 
to the persistence of racial profiling and acts of brutality victimizing 
persons of color by New Jersey police.  There is widespread concern about 
recent incidents of police brutality, including the death of Earl Caisson in 
police custody, the shooting death of Stanton Crew, the death of Jenny 
Hightower in Trenton, the shooting of three minority men on the New Jersey 
Turnpike by state troopers and this week's shooting of Bill Dashawn Colbert 
in Irvington.
 
Mayor Palmer will welcome the marchers. Speakers will put forward a nine 
point program to remedy past episodes of racial profiling and police 
brutality and institutionalize steps for the prevention of such racist 
practices in the future. Victims and families of victims of police violence 
will tell their stories. National figures will provide a national 
perspective. In addition to the March and Rally, members of the Coalition for 
Justice are scheduling meetings with state legislators and have already 
scheduled a follow-up meeting to continue to press for
their demands.

The rallies are scheduled at noon. Please come and pass on the information 
about the rallies to other interested persons.

                                                                         
Thank you,
                                                                         Jean 
Ross, Esq.
    











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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Post ID:1538
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-09 09:24:25
Subject:Fwd: [coalitionforjustice] Re: [poprogress] Protest held on Saturday (5/5/)
Message:

(concerning black Irvington youth Bilal Colbert being shot dead by white 
Irvington cop, can someone get this to the New Brunswick Coalition Against 
Police Brutality?)


From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, <harrisje@...>, 
<coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com>, <FBalducciJ@...>, "steveg" 
<gotzler@...>
Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Re: [poprogress] Protest held on Saturday 
(5/5/)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 00:23:56 -0400

Unless WE take action we are not conscious! We are simply talking
self-righteously as liars and supporters of the killing status quo. Our egos 
are salved while our innocent neighbors continue to be savaged -- courtesy 
of our high-sounding protestations. Don't feel bad. No one really died in 
the years before and during the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's 
down south. No one has died up north either -- don't believe what you read 
in the newspapers and see on TV. If there is any murderous racism around 
here or there, don't be concerned, someone else will handle it. Follow the 
Father Niemoeller program -- ignore your needy fellow human beings as long 
as you are able.

The next innocent victim to be killed by police in Essex county is scheduled 
for a little later this year. This execution will be carried out with the 
tacit approval of the residents of the county who are mostly still asleep, 
uncaring, or simply feeling hopeless and helpless. This next victim, or one 
of those right after that one, will be someone near and dear to YOU -- and 
won't you and they be surprised! Does any one understand what Malcolm X said 
about the need for social-political education -- and implementation?!

Unless YOU, WE, and particularly the RESIDENTS of IRVINGTON produce the
action, don't expect any beneficial action out of the City Council or Mayor. 
CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS TOLD ME THAT THEMSELVES on Saturday May 5th !!! THE FEW 
DECENT MEMBERS DO NOT HAVE A MAJORITY WILLING TO DO THE OBVIOUS MORAL, 
ETHICAL, JUST THING. YOU are needed to bring constant unbearable pressure to 
bear on the City Council and Mayor.

If I thought my life or my friend's life were at stake, I would do the
following as a minimum --

1. Get my friends and Church congregation to all show up at the next City 
Council meeting on May 15th [2nd Tuesday of each month] at 7PM.
2.Demand and obtain the following:

   [a] Open all the police complaint files of the last 10 years to the
public -- nature of complaint, date of complaint, ID of police officer
complained against, details of the investigation of the complaint,
disposition of the complaint [sustained, not sustained, ...], action taken, 
if any, against the officer. compensation received by the complainant
   [b] All officers with any physical abuse complaint against them be taken 
off the streets and given desk duty until complaint is resolved by a truly 
independent prosecutor/investigator. This may necessitate the City 
purchasing 100 or so additional desks.
   [c] An independent investigation of the weak-kneed, spineless behaviors 
of the City Council and Mayor in not properly confronting the Police 
Department's policies, procedures, training, supervision since the atrocious 
attack on Max Antoine about 5 years ago.
   [d] Open all police training manuals, policies, procedures, guidelines to 
public scrutiny.
   [e] Open an investigation into the possible collusion of Irvington
government and policing personnel with drug dealers who have arrange  for 
open drug dealing in Irvington for many years and to the present. Who is 
being bribed/paid off to go easy on the drug dealers.
   [f] Demand that weekly corrective action meetings be held among the 
Mayor, City Council, Police `Chief', and at least 10 representatives of the 
community who have had a family member injured by the police. If this is too 
frequent a schedule for any government member, that member should be 
urinated on by the general public whenever that member is next seen in 
public. This procedure should be continued until the member finds time to 
attend the complete weekly meetings. Continue these weekly meetings until 
the community representatives are satisfied with progress. At that time the 
community group will have the authority to set meeting schedules to audit 
progress at less frequent intervals.
   [g] Institute an active independent, popularly-elected, police control 
board along lines recommended by the People's Organization for Progress.
   [h] Present reports to the public at least once a month on progress and 
problems in obtaining corrective action of police behavior. This report to 
be made by the community representatives

    Do not leave the Council meeting room until all the above demands are 
agreed to and timetables set for implementation.Bring lots of peanut butter 
and jelly sandwiches -- you may have to wait a while.

  Howard

>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <harrisje@...>
>To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:12 PM
>Subject: Re: [poprogress] Protest held on Saturday (5/5/)
>
>
> >
> > Thank you for those comments. I  watched the news, and I realized that 
>she
> > was what I call a "sell out" from the first words she spat at the 
>camera.
> > Your words are well taken. I was happy to see that many showed up to
> > protest the injustices! And believe you me, the concious folks out here
> > understand that a politician is a politician is a politician, black, 
>white
> > or red. Until we see some ACTION, we can not trust any one of them.  - 
>J.
> > Harris
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1539
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-09 10:17:57
Subject:Re: Failing to Plan is Planning to Fail
Message:

"developing strong ties" and "have some ties" means that the greens have no 
chance in winning statewide or national elections. and the greens know this, 
which is why they only attack the democrats because they realize that the 
correct political analysis show the democrats will receive the progressive 
vote in order to defeat the republicans. greens have not spoken one word 
against the republican agenda and how it is the most dangerous agenda facing 
the masses of people around the world. why? because of the way the greens go 
about organizing, the democrats are more the enemy (of the greens) and who 
they have to challenge for votes, because they will not receive republican 
votes. but reality shows that the enemy of the people is imperialism, and 
the organization that more vicously represents imperialism is the republican 
party. so it is a communist position to waste the republicans! but more than 
that it is common sense, something you greens lack.

joe fortune500 (chair of the new jersey green party) said below:
"And, yes, I will take some pleasure in defeating bourgeouis Democrats. They 
have to feel our sting, the peoples sting, before they will ever consider 
supporting a peoples agenda."

and so there it is peoples, open for all of you to see. the greens openly 
endorse and promote the republicans winning elections.  fortune500 is not 
talking of defeating the "bourgeouis Democrats" with a peoples' candidate, 
but rather with a republican candidate. so the greens run their candidate to 
empower the republican so that the democrats will consider supporting a 
peoples' agenda? and they ignore all criticism which is why we must say that 
the greens are consciously building the concentration camps right along side 
bush2.

hey fortune500, my line doesn't belong anywhere but new brunswick, until the 
organization is built to seize new brunswick positions (city council, mayor, 
school board, housing authority). then we in new brunswick must organize to 
support progressive movements in other cities. as we seize the cities comes 
the consciousness and strategy to organize to seize the state. that is the 
base necessary before challenging for the governor's seat. i welcome the 
rugreens to work on getting an elected board of education for the public 
schools in new brunswick which are currently the worst schools in the 
county.

joe smith



>From: JFortun845@...
>To: can_bush@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Failing to Plan is Planning to Fail
>Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:20:59 EDT
>
>Dear Joseph:
>
>I have another suggestion for your reading list: "On the Correct Handling 
>of Contradictions Among the People."
>
>It is one thing to engage in polemics over strategic differences. You go 
>far beyond that, however, by making nader and the Greens into your enemy. 
>As such, it is your line, not ours, that is objectively aiding the right. 
>Your remarks about Nader and concentration camps are simply infantile. I 
>engaged in a debate with Amiri Baraka after the election. While our 
>diferences were sharp, the debate was kept on the political plane and the 
>tone was struggle. the method of unity-struggle-unity was empolyed. You, on 
>the other hand, seem to get some psychological pleasure out of bashing the 
>greens and engaging in personal attacks. Well, if it makes you feel better, 
>do it, but don't pretend to be a communist.
>
>As far as a base, what kind of a base has your raggedy line gotten you? The 
>Greens have locals now in most Counties while your line hasn't gotten you 
>out of New Brunswick. We also have  and are developing strong ties in the 
>African-American community because of our consistent work in fighting 
>against police brutality racial profiling and now have some ties in the 
>labor movement, which is more than you can say if you want to be truthful 
>about things.  And by the way, you are not going to "seize power" by 
>winning one local election.
>
>And, yes, I will take some pleasure in defeating bourgeouis Democrats.They 
>have to feel our sting, the peoples sting, before they will ever consider 
>supporting a peoples agenda. And McGreasy, as you call him, doesn't have to 
>and won't pay any attention at all to you. He doesn't need "communists" and 
>he certainly doesn't need you, whatever you are. But have fun anyway waving 
>his American flag, which he said (and later repudiated) that he wants to 
>make it mandatory to fly over newly constructed public housing.
>
>Paul makes a good point. In this state, even more than on the national 
>level, there are few differences, if any, between the "moderate" NJ 
>Republicans" and the State Democratic Party. Clearly, the situation calls 
>for a progressive agenda. McGreasy doesn't present it. Jerry Coleman will. 
>So have fun supporting the bourgeoisie. We will take an offensive stance, 
>while you remain on the defensive.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1540
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-09 13:21:01
Subject:Re: Failing to Plan is Planning to Fail
Message:

run campaigns where we can win. where we cannot win we are forced to support 
the weaker of our enemies forces, while organizing the independent Peoples' 
Democratic Workers' Party.

to say that i don't attack democrats is funny, you obviously were not around 
new brunswick last election, plus i use the term mcgreasy to show that i 
have no respect for the democratic candidate.

you criticize bush2 after you put him there.

fortune500 said below:
"We should run in (national) elections to build our movement and to 
publicize a progressive agenda, not because we hold illusions that we can 
"seize power" this way."

i argue that we should work on national elections to build our movement and 
to publicize a progressive agenda, because we cannot win we must work to 
support the candidate that least represents imperialism. the people/greens 
should work to defeat the peoples' most aggressive enemy, republicans, while 
organizing the peoples forces on local levels.

joe500, you are running this green candidate for governor knowing that it 
will work to strengthen the republicans chance of winning. i will attack 
this work and criticize this position constantly.

to work on seizing local positions only, because these are the only 
elections that the peoples' forces have a chance to win is a correct 
political position. fortune500 your argument is unraveling, the fact is that 
the people must defeat the republicans and the organizers must embrace this 
strategy or be criticized and exposed as counter-progressive organizers.

new jersey must champion the position that bush2 is crook by using this 
slogan to organize the voters to defeat franks/schundler. in this instance 
we must suck up all personal agendas and build a temporary alliance with 
mcgreasy.

republicans in the garbage can!- vote mcgreasy

joe



>From: JFortun845@...
>To: can_bush@..., JFortun845@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, njfo@yahoogroups.com,        
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Failing to Plan is Planning to Fail
>Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:22:50 EDT
>
>Joseph:
>
>With all due respect, you are spreading falsehoods by saying we don't 
>attack
>Republicans. We attack Republicans all the time. We just sent out a 
>national
>press release attacking Bush's environmental policy. Your problem is that 
>we
>also attack Democrats as being the wolves in sheep's clothing. You do not
>and, hence, your line is no different than that of the revisionist CP over
>the last 50 or so years. We all know about the Republicans. hence, it's the
>Democrats that we need to expose. Your line is  not going to lead us
>anywhere. True, the Greens are not  going to win national elections right
>now, and wouldn't seize power that way, anyway, but if we don't start
>building independent politics now, we never will.
>
>The essence of my problem with your line, though, is that you believe we 
>can
>"seize power" by winning enough local elections. That's hogwash and is a 
>line
>which sets us up for failure. We should run in elections to build our
>movement and to publicize a progressive agenda, not because we hold 
>illusions
>that we can "seize power" this way.  (This is a minority viewpoint within 
>the
>Greens at the moment, btw, which is why we need more conscious forces to 
>join
>with us).
>
>Cast away your illusions!

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1541
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-09 13:53:32
Subject:dems move to move to impeach verneiro
Message:

Democrats push for Verniero
                     impeachment

                     05/09/01

                     BY BRIAN DONOHUE
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

Trying to force a showdown tomorrow over the future of Supreme Court
Justice Peter Verniero, Democratic lawmakers are publicly and privately
calling on Republicans to defy Assembly Speaker Jack Collins and vote to 
impeach the embattled justice.

Backers of a resolution containing articles of impeachment are working to 
sway at least six Republicans to join the 35 Assembly Democrats in an effort 
to bring it to the floor during tomorrow's voting session.

Collins (R-Salem) announced April 26 that the Assembly would not act on
impeachment. But the sponsors of the resolution contend that if they can 
muster 41 votes -- a majority of the Assembly -- they can bypass the 
speaker.

Yesterday, Senate Judiciary Committee member Garry Furnari (D-Essex)
wrote a public letter to Assembly Majority Leader Paul DiGaetano
(R-Essex) imploring him to rally GOP votes for impeachment.

"It is time for the Legislature to do its job," Furnari wrote in his letter 
to DiGaetano. Sponsors of the resolution, meanwhile, were collecting 
signatures on a letter asking Collins to drop his opposition, and other 
Democrats were making calls to Republicans colleagues.

But privately and publicly, lawmakers said Democrats will be hard pressed to 
win over GOP votes. Republicans have introduced their own resolution, 
echoing one passed by the Senate last week, that calls for Verniero to 
resign but would not force his ouster.

The Senate Judiciary Committee urged the Assembly to impeach Verniero
after determining, in its recent hearings on racial profiling by the State 
Police, that he intentionally misled the committee when he testified about 
the issue during his 1999 confirmation hearings. Verniero has refused all 
calls for his resignation, saying he did nothing wrong and "misled no one."

Assemblyman Francis Blee (R-Atlantic), running mate of Sen. William
Gormley, the Judiciary Committee chairman who has spearheaded the
impeachment effort, said yesterday that while he would like the
opportunity to vote for impeachment, he is concerned that the Democratic 
proposal would not allow Verniero to receive a proper hearing.

"I don't know how you bring something to the floor without a hearing,"
Blee said. "I don't know how any thoughtful lawmaker can do that."

Brian Donohue covers criminal justice. He can be reached at
                     bdonohue@... or (609) 989-0267.

_________________________________________________________________
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Post ID:1542
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-09 17:06:14
Subject:let's rename the yahoogroup.
Message:

I move that we change the name of the yahoogroup to 

"joesmiththinks...@yahoogroups.com"







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Post ID:1543
Sender:"Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-09 21:01:21
Subject:Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: [RUGreens] Re: Fake Democracy
Message:

bush is illegitimate.  He lost the popular vote. and check in the dictionary 
what "nadir" is.

Tamara


>From: fierywomyn <nomes@...>
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>CC: jkaminsk@..., can_bush@..., JFortun845@..., 
>rugreens@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, 
>njfo@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: [RUGreens] Re: Fake Democracy
>Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 12:19:43 -0400 (EDT)
>
>hello all,
>
>i am requesting that i be removed from this list.  aside from the fact
>that i would only like to recieve each email once (I just recieved 5 of
>the same emails from cliff smith), i am appalled by the debate which i am
>trying to read through with on open mind.  it seems to me that some
>people writing (joe and cliff), don't have the same open mind to
>understand the fundamental contributions of the nader campaign or
>other political movements that seek to give power to the people.  jfortun
>and joe (greens), if i were you, i wouldn't waste my time.  anyone who is
>truely "progressive" does not waste his/her time attacking other people
>who are actually working for the benefit of the people.
>Ralph Nader (check your spelling, cliff), did not contribute to bush's
>success.  Although i am far from a political analyst, it is obvious to all
>that this last election was taken out of the hands of the populace and
>"decided" by the supreme court; beyond that, bush won offically by 537
>votes!  do you understand what that means?  that means that almost an
>equal number of people voted republican as voted democrat.  the
>reasoning:  both parties rely on a centrist (appeasing the white middle
>class and older VOTING populations) platform.  they espoused the same
>concerns with the same attitudes toward them and offered the same
>potential solutions.  is bush "worse" than gore?  absolutely.  by how much
>-- enough to help the cause of the green party and other underrepresented
>parties to get their point across that we are ready for more third
>parties, that we need them fighting against the "republicrats," and that
>it will only be through the periphery of such third parties that we are
>able to transform our political system and our world into one which is
>truely democratic, truely representative of the people, truely
>progressive.
>
>naomi silverman
>
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1544
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-09 14:50:35
Subject:Re: Failing to Plan is Planning to Fail
Message:

now who is truely left sloganeering?


>From: JFortun845@...
>To: can_bush@..., JFortun845@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, njfo@yahoogroups.com,        
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Failing to Plan is Planning to Fail
>Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:04:27 EDT
>
>In a message dated 5/9/01 1:21:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>can_bush@... writes:
>
>
> > you criticize bush2 after you put him there.
> >
> >
>
>Wrong again. Ralph Nader and the Greens continually criticized both the
>Republicans and the Democrats at one and the same time and in the same
>sentences. You are merely perpetuating Democratic Party propaganda and 
>doing
>their bidding by claiming Nader didn't attack Bush. Moreover, you are
>perpetuating the myth that the people only have the choice of Democrats and
>Republicans and that this choice makes some kind of significant difference.
>This is just the warmed over old CP line. We advanced the progressive 
>agenda,
>such as universal healthcare, a living wage, and end to the death penalty, 
>an
>end to police brutality, an end to corporate welfare, justice for
>Palestinians,etc., to name just a few issues on which both Dems and Repubs
>advanced reactionary positions.
>
>Look at the Leonard Peltier case for example. During the debate with at
>WISOMMM, Amiri argued that we had to support the Dems because they would
>treat our political prisoners better (Peltier and Mumia were mentioned)....
>Well, that worked out real well with Peltier, didn't it? Relying on the
>pro-death penalty, pro-police, pro-drug war anti-people Dems is not
>progressive by any stretch of the imagination. To support the Dems at this
>stage is to build cynicism and also tails behind the people, who are
>increasingly fed up with the two-party system.
>
>Break away from the two-party system! Throw all the bums out, Ds &Rs! Build 
>a
>true mass party of the people! Unite the many to defeat the few! Support a
>progressive African-American for Governor, Jerry Coleman. Support a
>Progressive Agenda.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1545
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-10 14:16:49
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] Interesting story of 1943 white-riot in Segregated Army
Message:



From: Jon Levine <jlevine@...>
Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [poprogress] Interesting story of 1943 white-riot in egregated 
Army>Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:59:09 -0400

Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 23:01:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Art McGee <amcgee@...>
Subject: [BRC-NEWS]: The Mystery of the 364th

http://www.bestofneworleans.com/archives/2001/0410/covs.html

Gambit Weekly (New Orleans)

April 10, 2001

Some eyewitnesses say they saw a mass killing. The Army says nothing
happened. Geoffrey F.X. O'Connell reveals the story behind an ongoing
investigation into the fate of an all- black World War II regiment
stationed at Camp Van Dorn, Mississippi.

The Mystery of the 364th

By Geoffrey F.X. O'Connell <gfoconnell@...>

Were a thousand African-American soldiers gunned down by the Army in
a racially motivated shootout in Mississippi in 1943?

Were members of the controversial 364th (Negro) Infantry Regiment
killed at Camp Van Dorn to silence their relentless - -- and
sometimes violent -- demands for equality in a segregated Army?

Were the bodies buried in a mass grave somewhere on the sprawling
base or "stacked like cordwood" and shipped north on boxcars?

That's a story that's been whispered since World War II in and around
Centreville, Miss. A Pentagon spokesman sums up its 1999 probe of the
allegation: "Nothing egregious happened." But that isn't the end of
it.

Historians and journalists -- including this writer -- in pursuit of
this puzzling piece of American history are uncovering a nationwide
trail of racial violence during World War II. Bloody clashes in the
military brought with them an ever-escalating fear among whites and
blacks that at least one such incident could spiral out of control.

Why are these stories only coming to light now, a half-century after
they are said to have occurred? Several factors are responsible:

* After 50 years, millions of top-secret government documents from
World War II were available to be declassified;

* Historians are incorporating oral accounts of ordinary citizens
into their understanding of past events;

* Historians and journalists have come to accept that urban legends
sometimes can be keys to society's worst traumas. The white riot that
leveled Tulsa's black community in 1921 - -- with over 300 dead --
was legend until just this year, when a state commission in the face
of overwhelming evidence recommended reparation to victims' families.

* World War II veterans at the ends of their lives are unburdening
themselves of long-held secrets.

In February, New Orleans' D-Day Museum -- in cooperation with
Tulane's Amistad Research Center and The Eisenhower Center for
American Studies at the University of New Orleans - -- hosted a
first-ever national symposium on the African-American experience in
>World War II. Black vets celebrated their place in history, but also
>traded with historians stories of discrimination, protest and
>reprisal. Even keynote speaker Ossie Davis revealed a deadly racial
>incident he witnessed while stationed in Liberia. The symposium
>title, "Double Victory: Fighting on Two Fronts" alludes to a
>grassroots civil rights movement that called for "Victory at Home,
>Victory Abroad." The movement had no leaders, but some of its
>adherents were so passionate that they burned or carved a "double V"
>on their chests.
>
>"Troublemakers" in the controversial 364th Regiment had those "double
>Vs," according to Army intelligence files.
>
>Ridenhour investigates
>
>The casualty count may be in dispute, but it is now clear that there
>were hundreds of bloody domestic firefights from Camp Benning, Ga.,
>to Beaumont, Texas; from Ft. Dix, N.J., to Camp Shenango, Pa. Much of
>what we are learning about this racial violence is coming from
>documents that are part of a wartime domestic intelligence operation
>far more extensive and intrusive than what previously has been known.
>And much of what we don't know about the period is the result of
>government press censorship -- the proportions of which are not
>understood even today.
>
>The late New Orleans journalist Ron Ridenhour was nine years into his
>research on alleged killings at Camp Van Dorn when he died of a heart
>attack in May 1998. The award-winning investigative reporter --
>perhaps best known as the soldier whose letters to Congress prompted
>investigation into the My Lai Massacre during the Vietnam War -- had
>recorded interviews with dozens of white and black soldiers and base
>civilians about the alleged incident.
>
>Some interviewees swore they witnessed a shootout, or events they
>think led to a shootout or its aftermath. Some say the casualties
>were many, others say just a few. Some testimony claims to be
>first-hand, some is hearsay.
>
>Through the Freedom of Information Act, Ridenhour had tens of
>thousands of government documents released. At the time of his death,
>they added up to an intriguing but purely circumstantial case
>pointing to the deaths and disappearances of at least some members of
>the 364th. Ridenhour knew much more investigation was needed to
>discover what really happened.
>
>Ridenhour's has been the most thorough pursuit of the story so far,
>but others, like Mississippian Carroll Case before him, and
>documentary producer Greg DeHart after him, continue to raise
>questions about this incident and the cauldron of racial tension that
>was roiling in the early years of World War II. The latest
>installment in this ongoing controversy is DeHart's upcoming History
>Channel documentary The Mystery of the 364th, scheduled to premiere 9
>p.m. May 20. This hour-long program neither proves the allegations
>nor puts them to rest. It does, however, support the contention that
>there are serious issues here that deserve a robust public debate.
>
>The path of this story to The History Channel began with former
>McComb, Miss., banker Carroll Case, who first heard the tale of
>wholesale killing of blacks at Camp Van Dorn from a former MP who
>said he was one of the shooters. Case pursued the story on his own
>for five years, then, in 1990, passed copies of his files to
>Ridenhour. Ridenhour was in the thick of his investigation when he
>died. Following Ridenhour's death, Case penned his own book on the
>subject, a mix of fact and fiction called The Slaughter: An American
>Atrocity.
>
>The controversial and oft-maligned book caught the attention of the
>NAACP. The organization was shocked by the magnitude of Case's
>allegation that 1,200 African-American combat troops were killed by
>white soldiers in a single night of fighting in southwest Mississippi
>in the summer or fall of 1943.
>
>Due to pressure from Mississippi Congressman Bennie Thompson and the
>NAACP, which issued its own draft report on the subject in June 1999,
>the Army says it "was forced to respond" to inquiries about the
>book's allegations. It committed thousands of hours and hundreds of
>thousand of dollars on a report released Dec. 23, 1999. The Army's
>conclusion: "All available material clearly supports the conclusion
>no incident such as that described in The Slaughter could have taken
>place."
>
>Brig. Gen Brown, Chief of Military History, concluded: "This work has
>been accomplished with a rigor that should readily stand public or
>academic scrutiny."
>
>William Leftwich III, deputy defense secretary for equal opportunity,
>spoke to the press more forcefully: "With what we have done, the DOD
>and the Army...have put a stake in the heart of this vicious,
>maniacal...rumor."
>
>The Army report did not kill this "rumor." The allegations are not
>laid to rest because the report does not pass scrutiny. Critics --
>including this writer -- say the report is riddled with factual
>errors, marred by gaps and suffers from internal contradictions and
>conflicts with other Army records.
>
>Here are two examples of such conflicts. In the narrative section of
>the report, the Army says a bloody riot in Phoenix involving members
>of the 364th prior to their arrival at Camp Van Dorn was the result
>of the regiment's commander, Col. Wickham, serving too much beer to
>the black soldiers. Other declassified Army records indicate that
>Wickham had been relieved of his command at the time of the incident
>and was under medical observation in California on the day in
>question.
>
>And in the report's appendix, which is said to be a complete
>accounting of the enlisted men in the 364th, Pvt. William Walker is
>listed as "separated from service" -- off the payroll -- May 15,
>1943. But Walker, according to the report's main narrative, was shot
>and killed in uniform near the Camp Van Dorn gates two weeks later,
>on May 30.
>
>When this writer created a database from the Army "roster," dozens of
>these kinds of discrepancies emerged. Still, the report's failure to
>end the debate should not be taken as an indication that the
>allegations are true, only that the controversy continues.
>
>Not Colin Powell's army
>
>The military in World War II was not "Colin Powell's Army," as some
>call the integrated armed forces that saw the rise of a black man to
>high rank and national prominence. The mystery of the 364th -- and
>the racial crisis of which it is emblematic -- needs to be examined
>in light of the prejudices of the day.
>
>The military was completely segregated, thoroughly "Jim Crow." The
>Marines did not accept blacks at all. The Navy accepted them only for
>menial jobs. The Army reluctantly bowed to pressure and inducted some
>blacks into segregated units led by a white officer corps. Most black
>regiments were service units. Those few designated for combat were
>typically under-trained, under-supplied and sent to dreadful stations
>where they were isolated and subject to insult and attack from
>hostile, white civilians.
>
>This prejudiced conduct was justified by Army War College studies
>like the so-called "Bly report," issued in 1925, in response to
>racial problems in World War I. In among pseudo-scientific claptrap
>on the smaller "cranial cavities" of Negroes is this sweeping
>assertion: "The Negro does not perform his share of civil duties in
>time of peace. He has no leaders in industrial or commercial life. He
>takes no part in government. Compared to the white man he is
>admittedly of inferior mentality. He is inherently weak in character."
>
>With this as a blueprint, it is no surprise that despite the threat
>of a new world war, the military establishment resisted black
>participation. Some cities experienced riots when blacks were turned
>away from induction centers.
>
>Though historians argue over Franklin Roosevelt's political motives,
>the president appears in his declassified papers as adamant about a
>10 percent quota for blacks in the Army as he was about his threat to
>withhold defense contracts from companies discriminating against
>blacks. White workers in shipyards from Mobile, Ala., to Chester,
>Pa., rioted against the president's directives. In 1943 in Detroit,
>at about the same time the first race riots are reported at Camp Van
>Dorn, white workers enraged by black participation in the burgeoning
>war industry rioted for three days. The final toll: 25 blacks and
>nine whites were killed, hundreds injured, millions of dollars in
>damage.
>
>The violent birth of a regiment
>
>The 367th (Negro) Infantry Regiment -- the forerunner of the 364th --
>was a rare early entrant to the pre-war preparations, activated as a
>black combat unit in March 1941 at Camp Claiborne, in central
>Louisiana just outside Alexandria. In December of that year, the
>Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. Beneath the veneer of a country united
>in its hatred of the enemy, racial turmoil simmered.
>
>Just one month after Pearl Harbor, violence flared in Alexandria. In
>a pattern that would repeat itself a frightening number of times in
>the years to follow, a black soldier in town with a pass was accused
>of accosting a white woman. He was set upon by police. His buddies
>fought back. Military police responded. People were killed and
>wounded and property destroyed.
>
>How many were killed and how much was destroyed is itself still a
>subject of investigation and debate. Even the Army report at the time
>characterized the situation as a police riot. But one local newspaper
>reporter then, and investigators now, say that the Army understated
>the severity of the so-called "Lee Street riot" and undercounted
>losses. This minimization, some charge, is also part of the
>oft-repeated pattern.
>
>At any rate, the 367th was broken up in March 1942. The official
>records of what happened are sketchy, contradictory and somewhat
>confusing. But so far, most researchers agree that the regiment's
>First Battalion -- about 1,000 enlisted men -- received orders for
>overseas deployment. The remaining two battalions were re-designated
>the 364th (Negro) Infantry Regiment. It took in a batch of new
>recruits -- mostly from Northern cities like Chicago, New York and
>Philadelphia -- and were ordered to Arizona in June 1942.
>
>By the fall, the full regiment was bivouacked at Papago Park in
>Phoenix. Letters from soldiers there and official Army investigations
>deplored the plight of the 364th both on base and in the hostile
>community surrounding it. A "John Doe" letter addressed to
>Pennsylvania Sen. Joseph Guffey summed up the situation: "If there is
>no change here, all of us from Pennsylvania have decided to go AWOL
>rather than be murdered in uniforms of the United States Army. Your
>delay, sir, can be the cause of a disgraceful consequence."
>
>Things were bad all over. A November 1942 memo to the Secretary of
>War from Truman Gibson, Civilian Aide to the Secretary, detailed
>"violent and abusive treatment of Negro military personnel by
>civilian public authorities in the South." It listed incidents in
>Alexandria, La., Columbia, S.C., Norfolk, Va., Mobile and Montgomery,
>Ala., Beaumont, Texas and Little Rock, Ark. The memo concluded: "This
>continuing wave of violence may lead to rioting at any time and
>certainly it is raising havoc with the spirit of Negro soldiers, many
>of whom have reached the stage that they would rather fight their
>domestic enemies than the foreign foe."
>
>On Nov. 13, racially motivated fighting broke out involving the 364th
>at Papago Park. But it was nothing compared to what happened two
>weeks later on Thanksgiving night in downtown Phoenix.
>
>The `Phoenix massacre'
>
>Just as with the "Lee Street riot," the details and body count of the
>"Phoenix Massacre" continue to be argued. A reporter for the Arizona
>Republic who covered the massacre told Ridenhour (himself a Phoenix
>native) that his access to the riot scene was restricted and that he
>always believed the body count was much higher than official reports.
>
>In yet another aspect of a soon-to-be-repeated pattern, an initial
>altercation escalated when members of the 364th returned to camp,
>armed themselves and returned to Phoenix. All that is known for sure
>is that the firefight lasted all night over the predominantly black
>section of that desert town. Soldiers, police and civilians were
>killed and wounded. Court martials followed. The Congressional
>delegation urged the 364th be sent packing. The army agreed. But
>where?
>
>Studies at the war's onset warned that domestic racial problems posed
>a threat to troop mobilization and arms production and could lead to
>propaganda disasters. Agents for the Japanese, for example, were
>already promising Southern blacks -- their "brothers in color" --
>freedom from white oppression, even economic rewards. Each report of
>racial violence that leaked out made its way to German and Japanese
>broadcasts to American soldiers overseas. A mid-war intelligence-led
>opinion survey suggested that 10 percent of the black population
>thought they would be better off under Japanese rule.
>
>One study was adamant in its findings about the deployment of black
>troops: "...as little movement as possible be made into areas where
>racial relations are different from their home environment,"
>concluded "The Negro Problem in the Army," circulated by Maj. Gen.
>Geo. Strong June 17, 1942.
>
>This advice was not heeded when the most rebellious black combat unit
>the U.S. had ever seen was sent to the nation's epicenter of racial
>hate and violence.
>
>Letters claim killings
>
>The 1999 Army report acknowledges a state of strained race relations
>as the 364th arrived by train in Centreville, Miss.: "To a majority
>it was a trip into a virtually unknown and foreign land where a man
>of color often had to fear for his life." These fears, according to
>files Ridenhour had declassified, were not generic.
>
>"Before the 364th came in, there were several unsolved murders of
>Negro soldiers. Their bodies were found in the field," according to
>Cpl. Wilbur T. Jackson of the 512th Quartermaster Regiment, another
>segregated black unit. "All the white farmers and civilians are armed
>at all times and seem to want a pitched battle with Negro soldiers."
>
>In a memo forwarded to Truman Gibson, Acting Civilian Aide to the
>Secretary of War, Jackson continued: "Men have been constantly
>molested and beaten by white MPs." Jackson said he was willing to
>testify anywhere, anytime about what he has seen, concluding his
>memo: "I'd rather die for something I really did than to be shot down
>because some officer doesn't like the way I walk, or the look on my
>face."
>
>Violent racial clashes began at Camp Van Dorn and in nearby towns
>within 24 hours of the arrival of the 364th. Though there is much
>debate about details, the record reflects some consensus truths:
>
>* Soldiers of the 364th claimed they were going to "clean up" the
>base and surrounding towns, challenging Jim Crow laws at every turn;
>
>* White civilians were heavily armed, braced for a violent clash;
>
>* The Army high command in Washington warned base and regimental
>commanders that they were to end racial violence or lose their jobs;
>
>* On May 30, within days of the arrival of the 364th, Pvt. William
>Walker, while scuffling with white MPs near the entrance to the base,
>was killed by the local sheriff;
>
>* Members of Walker's company, joined by others, broke into base
>storerooms, stole rifles and headed for Centreville, swearing revenge.
>
>The largest newspaper in the region, The McComb Daily Enterprise,
>reported: "Many wild rumors floated about . rumors of men being
>killed by the scores and of women being molested. All efforts to run
>these rumors down did nothing more than emphasize the chaotic way the
>public has of reacting to emotional disturbances."
>
>Press censorship
>
>There was chaos to be sure. The 364th's Morning Reports, a kind of
>company-by-company daily attendance sheet, note dozens of soldiers as
>AWOL following the Walker shooting and its aftermath. Files in the
>National Archives trace some who made their way north, seeking from
>their local induction boards asylum from what they called a
>life-threatening situation. A white officer in Walker's company
>interviewed by The History Channel estimated 60 of his men -- about
>half - -- were among those AWOL.
>
>Some white soldiers on this sprawling base heard stories about the
>violence and wrote letters about it. These letters are among the
>military's Counterintelligence Corps files unearthed by Ridenhour.
>
>In a letter dated June 6, 1943, and intercepted by military
>intelligence, Pvt. Harold F. Jones of the 394th wrote to a friend
>about racial violence that broke out with the arrival of the 364th:
>"...they started tearing down their barracks and PXs. Finally they
>worked over some MPs and killed two white officers. That night they
>captured five officers and held them in their barracks as hostages.
>Two battalions of the 5th Infantry were sent in. ...Our officers told
>us they carted 30 dead niggers to the morgue...but I don't know if
>that's true."
>
>Another member of the 394th wrote on June 5. "...a nigger regiment
>kinda took things in there [sic] hands and overran a few places.
>Result. They settled there [sic] hash with gunfire. A few of the
>niggers were killed. They killed a few white officers though. ...The
>Fifth Inf. was sent in to take over the riot and the niggers held
>them off by holding a bunch of officers as hostages."
>
>A soldier in the 163rd wrote home in June: "...there have been about
>20 or 25 Negros [sic] hurt and kild [sic]. They [sic] have been 5 or
>ten shot right through the head...and we are going to give them hell
>when they come around us."
>
>A June 1 letter written by a member of the unit in question, the
>364th, stated: "We are catching hell here. Two of our men have been
>kill [sic] and we have only been in this camp for six days. Something
>worse is going to happen soon."
>
>There are more such letters in the National Archives and the files of
>the NAACP. Ridenhour recorded similar tales of deadly skirmishes
>during his investigation.
>
>Whatever was touched off throughout the South in June 1943 was of
>grave concern to the Army. "The Negro situation is fast approaching a
>critical stage," states a confidential memo from the Fourth Service
>Command in Atlanta.
>
>Following the first days of violence at Camp Van Dorn, the patchwork
>of official records unearthed so far does little to sort fact from
>fiction. Here is a small sample of the problems:
>
>* Military personnel records crucial to the incident, along with
>millions of others, were destroyed in a fire in 1973.
>
>* Intelligence files Ridenhour sought from the National Archives did
>not arrive for six years. When he finally received them, they were
>incomplete and heavily edited.
>
>* The 364th's Regimental Journal shows no entries from the day the
>364th arrives in Mississippi until Nov. 4, 1943 -- almost the entire
>period in question.
>
>* The journal pages, starting in 1942, are signed by a Sgt. Malcolm
>LaPlace, who told Ridenhour -- and whose service record confirms --
>he wasn't in the service in 1942.
>
>* After the Army's initial research in 1999 proved "inconclusive" it
>received a waiver of privacy concerns and based some of its
>conclusions on records that are beyond the reach of the public.
>
>In short, the records are a mess, neither proving nor disproving much
>of anything -- yet.
>
>What about newspaper accounts? The black press had full access to the
>camps, black soldiers and accounts of racial violence, according to
>current Army spokesmen. But on July 19, 1943 -- just two days after a
>round of secret court martials tied to the Walker shooting and its
>aftermath ended at Camp Van Dorn -- the Secretary of War wrote the
>U.S. Attorney General that he would no longer stand for black press
>reports on racial violence in the military: "It is strongly urged
>that your department take appropriate action to eliminate this
>serious threat to the war effort."
>
>What that action was has yet to be unearthed from the National
>Archives. But a study of the one of the nation's most influential
>black newspapers of the time, The Pittsburgh Courier, shows that all
>mention of its own militant "Double V" campaign ends within 60 days
>of Stimson's challenge to the Attorney General.
>
>What began around the same time are indications that the black press
>-- and white media -- submitted to increased censorship. There are
>records of editors calling the War Department for clearance to run
>stories deemed "inflammatory." There are drafts of newspaper stories
>stamped "No Objection To Publication." Access to bases and
>information was restricted.
>
>When a reporter for The Pittsburgh Courier asked about the court
>martials he'd heard about at Camp Van Dorn, base commander Col.
>Guthrie responds in a letter dated Sept. 2, 1944: "Your telegraphic
>request for information concerning the court martialing of certain
>soldiers at this camp was referred to the headquarters...It prefers
>to withhold information for the present."
>
>The Walker Aftermath
>
>Two Army Inspector General reports prepared after the Walker-related
>incidents hint at the Army's response. The so-called Burney Report
>concludes: "[Gen. McNair] is of the opinion that the best solution is
>to confine the organization to the limits of its regimental area and
>deprive it of all privileges until such time as it will disclose its
>real troublemakers .."
>
>The Peterson report concludes: "...in light of the recent riotous
>conduct of the 364th Infantry, vigorous and prompt corrective action
>was necessary in order to place this regiment in such a disciplinary
>state that it would not again resort to mutinous conduct and to
>protect the lives of the citizens of Centreville and other innocent
>person."
>
>Ridenhour interviewed black vets who remember being under such a form
>of house arrest and white vets who patrolled the cordoned-off area in
>jeeps and half-tracks mounted with ..50-caliber machine guns. More
>letters intercepted by military intelligence and other Ridenhour
>interviews make reference to sporadic gunfire exchanges across the
>cordon line.
>
>The 1999 Army report does not mention armed patrols or house arrest.
>It refers to a disturbance in which members of the 364th disrupt a
>July 3, 1943, dance in the black section of camp. The disturbance was
>broken up by a battalion of the all-white 99th Division. "No one was
>hurt," reads the report. The rest of 1943 is covered in a single
>sentence: "Training in the regiment continued through the summer of
>1943 without incident."
>
>In September 1943, Col. Lathe Row of the Army Inspector General's
>Office studied the situation and concluded "that the presence of the
>364th Infantry constitutes a threat to the normal peaceful conditions
>at Camp Van Dorn...[and] should be transferred at an early date...for
>overseas duty."
>
>According to most 364th regimental documents, those troops not
>transferred to other units left Camp Van Dorn by train Dec. 26, 1943.
>After waiting a month or so at Ft. Lawton, near Seattle, Wash., they
>embarked on three ships for the Aleutian Islands of Alaska. They
>served out most of the war, some records indicate, spread out over
>1,500 hundred miles of desolate islands, eight to a Quonset hut.
>
>The 1999 Army report concludes its Executive Summary, saying:
>"...there is no documentary evidence whatsoever that any unusual or
>inexplicable loss of personnel occurred." What is "unusual or
>inexplicable" has yet to be determined. But attached to the report is
>an appendix that indicates hundreds of soldiers (almost one-fourth,
>it appears, of the regiment's authorized strength in the period) were
>transferred out of the troubled 364th to other segregated units prior
>to shipping out to the Aleutians.
>
>The main alphabetical roster of the 364th reconstructed by the Army
>in 1999 from personnel files not lost in the 1973 fire lists for each
>soldier the date he's "separated from service," a catchall phrase
>covering all deletions from the payroll -- through discharge, court
>martial or death. When these entries are re-sorted chronologically, a
>pattern emerges that appears to be at odds with the Army contention
>that there was little loss of personnel. On average, about one
>soldier's name per day -- from June 1943 through the end of the war
>-- is dropped not just from the 364th's roster, but from the Army
>payroll.
>
>In the months before his death, Ridenhour was comparing Army payroll
>records and General Orders he had obtained that bore hand-written
>notations in the Regimental Journal showing "losses" to the 364th
>while stationed in the Aleutians in 1944. Some of his preliminary
>calculations showed a drop-off of nearly 1,000 enlisted men -- a
>third of the regiment -- with no accompanying explanation of
>transfers to other units or discharges.
>
>In 1999, the Army said it has accounted for all but 20 of the nearly
>4,000 black enlisted men who served in the 364th during some period
>of time from April through December 1943. However, in a memo to
>DeHart in response to some of these apparent discrepancies, the Army
>retreated from its 1999 position of certainty. The memo said faulty
>record keeping in the 1940s, miscommunication about transfer orders
>and poorly copied records can account for the apparent conflicts.
>
>Regardless of the state of the documents the Army relied on, all that
>is accounted for are records of these men, not the men themselves.
>When the Army sought to interview by phone living members of the
>364th, they turned up only 116 by the time the report was issued.
>
>Of course, death by natural causes in a group this old would explain
>much. But when independent producer Greg DeHart hired a private
>investigator to run computer traces on members of the 364th listed in
>1943 intelligence files as "troublemakers" the investigator reported
>a common response: "No records found for your subject." Some living
>soldiers were traceable. Some, when contacted by producer DeHart,
>denied that they were ever in the 364th. Some initially agreed to be
>interviewed about violence at Camp Van Dorn, then declined.
>
>It's experiences like these that keep people digging for answers.
>
>Conclusions
>
>Certainly, the idea of a single massacre of 1,200 soldiers in one
>unit at one base and a subsequent cover-up lasting almost 60 years,
>strains credulity. But even one Army commentator believes aspects of
>history can be hidden for generations. "Although almost too
>preposterous to consider at first," he wrote of the Camp Van Dorn
>massacre, "so too was the government's involvement in the Tuskegee
>Syphilis Study," referring to the recently revealed scandal of
>government program in which treatments were withheld from blacks to
>study how they deteriorated and died with the disease.
>
>The level of racial violence in the military, the intensity of racial
>hatred and the willingness of elements of the Army to discriminate
>against blacks trying to serve their country is a disgrace that is
>gradually coming to light.
>
>Perhaps further research will show the worst violence at Camp Van
>Dorn and other bases occurred at the hands of civilians, not Army
>personnel. Consider this item in the declassified study "The
>Treatment of The Negro Trainee" (conducted just months after the 1943
>summer of violence): "There are a few cases where it appeared that
>the army officers deserted the men and left them to the mercy of
>civilian attackers."
>
>Or perhaps "troublemakers" were disappeared into a maze of secret
>court martials, open-ended "disciplinary" internments and
>dishonorable discharges. Consider this Oct. 9, 1944, memo from Col.
>J.M. Roamer, Director of Intelligence, sent to the Commanding
>General, Army Service Forces: "It is known that there are large
>numbers of Negro soldiers who are now awaiting discharge in camps
>where trouble has occurred. . The discharge should be accelerated."
>
>In the final analysis, the 1999 Army report presents a rebuttal to
>Carol Case's The Slaughter that is as fragmented and circumstantial
>as they charge Case's book to be. At best, it is one more chapter in
>the ongoing saga, raising challenges to a massacre theory that must
>be addressed by researchers, but illuminating little of this dark
>corner of American history.
>
>The History Channel's Mystery of the 364th is an even-handed
>advancement of this compelling inquiry.
>
>Much remains to be done.
>
>- --
>
>Geoffrey F.X. O'Connell's work is supported by a grant from The Fund
>for Investigative Journalism. Ron Ridenhour's investigation was
>supported by a grant from the Alicia Patterson Foundation. Since
>Ridenhour's death, the executor of his estate, New Orleans attorney
>Mary Howell, has assisted O'Connell in furthering his former
>colleague's work. Email O'Connell at <gfoconnell@...>.
>
>Copyright (c) 2001 Gambit Communications. All Rights Reserved.
>
>
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1546
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-11 12:01:28
Subject:REMINDER - organizing workshop
Message:

REMINDER : Tomorrow Saturday May 12th and Sunday May 13th
Don't miss it!
>
>Calling all activists, organizers, writers, artists, & people who strive to
>build the movement for democracy and positive culture:
>
>GRASSROOTS ORGANIZING LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
>May 12 - 13, 2001
>
>Join fellow organizers and people in the movement for two days of training,
>information, and revolutionary discussion. Network with activists from
>various student communities. Join together in strategic discussions on
>linking the global and local struggles for democracy!
>
>With presentations on:
>-the nuts and bolts of grassroots organizing, local and national strategies
>and tactics
>-working in the cultural sphere
>-Building a United Front
>-the relationship between democracy and revolution
>
>AND MORE!
>
>Saturday, May 12th and Sunday, May 13th
>10 am to 5 pm each day, with PARTY on Saturday night ;)
>
>Back Yard, 559 Hamilton Street, Somerset
>
>Come for at least one day if you can't make both...
>
>Register by calling 732-735-1342  OR 732-687-2550
>BRING A FRIEND!
>
>Sponsored by activists from NJFO, the NB People's Campaign, and ARThouse
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1547
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-09 13:24:24
Subject:Re: Failing to Plan is Planning to Fail
Message:

run campaigns where we can win. where we cannot win we are forced to support 
the weaker of our enemies forces, while organizing the independent Peoples' 
Democratic Workers' Party.

to say that i don't attack democrats is funny, you obviously were not around 
new brunswick last election, plus i use the term mcgreasy to show that i 
have no respect for the democratic candidate.

you criticize bush2 after you put him there.

fortune500 said below:
"We should run in (national) elections to build our movement and to 
publicize a progressive agenda, not because we hold illusions that we can 
"seize power" this way."

i argue that we should work on national elections to build our movement and 
to publicize a progressive agenda, because we cannot win we must work to 
support the candidate that least represents imperialism. the people/greens 
should work to defeat the peoples' most aggressive enemy, republicans, while 
organizing the peoples forces on local levels.

joe500, you are running this green candidate for governor knowing that it 
will work to strengthen the republicans chance of winning. i will attack 
this work and criticize this position constantly.

to work on seizing local positions only, because these are the only 
elections that the peoples' forces have a chance to win is a correct 
political position. fortune500 your argument is unraveling, the fact is that 
the people must defeat the republicans and the organizers must embrace this 
strategy or be criticized and exposed as counter-progressive organizers.

new jersey must champion the position that bush2 is crook by using this 
slogan to organize the voters to defeat franks/schundler. in this instance 
we must suck up all personal agendas and build a temporary alliance with 
mcgreasy.

republicans in the garbage can!- vote mcgreasy

joe



>From: JFortun845@...
>To: can_bush@..., JFortun845@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, njfo@yahoogroups.com,        
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Failing to Plan is Planning to Fail
>Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:22:50 EDT
>
>Joseph:
>
With all due respect, you are spreading falsehoods by saying we don't attack 
Republicans. We attack Republicans all the time. We just sent out a national 
press release attacking Bush's environmental policy. Your problem is that we 
also attack Democrats as being the wolves in sheep's clothing. You do not 
and, hence, your line is no different than that of the revisionist CP over 
the last 50 or so years. We all know about the Republicans. hence, it's the 
Democrats that we need to expose. Your line is  not going to lead us 
anywhere. True, the Greens are not  going to win national elections right 
now, and wouldn't seize power that way, anyway, but if we don't start 
building independent politics now, we never will.
>
>The essence of my problem with your line, though, is that you believe we 
>can "seize power" by winning enough local elections. That's hogwash and is 
>a line which sets us up for failure. We should run in elections to build 
>our movement and to publicize a progressive agenda, not because we hold 
>illusions that we can "seize power" this way.  (This is a minority 
>viewpoint within the Greens at the moment, btw, which is why we need more 
>conscious forces to join with us).
>
Cast away your illusions!
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1548
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-11 20:41:29
Subject:Waste the Republicans! - vote McGreasy
Message:

Don't divide the progressive vote! Bury Franks/Schundler!
Build the strategic temporary alliance with Democrat McGreasy in order to 
send Nation message:
Racist Republicans you can't hide, WE CHARGE YOU WITH GENOCIDE!!

                   PEOPLES' WAR ON THE RIGHT!

(explain this greens/fortune500! cause i see a difference between democrats 
and republicans)

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/page1/ledger/133879c.html

Assembly kills effort to oust Verniero

                     05/11/01

                     BY BRIAN DONOHUE
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

A formidable effort to remove state Supreme Court Justice Peter Verniero 
from office died yesterday in a bitter floor fight in the Assembly, where 
Republicans used parliamentary maneuvers to block his impeachment.

What began a month ago as a bipartisan push to oust Verniero on    charges 
that he gave false testimony about racial profiling to a Senate
committee ended in a partisan clash. Assembly Democrats contended the
Republican majority was ducking its responsibility by killing what would 
have been the first impeachment under the state's 1947 Constitution.

"Mr. Verniero represents the worst elements of our criminal-justice system; 
his presence on the highest court is a travesty and he must be removed," 
said Assemblyman William Payne (D-Essex), sponsor of a resolution to bring 
articles of impeachment against the justice.

That resolution was tabled on a vote of 41-36, with three Republicans
among the dissenters. No Democrat voted with the majority. A last-gasp
attempt by Payne to post it for a vote was ruled out of order by Speaker 
Jack Collins (R-Salem), who announced two weeks ago that he would not allow 
impeachment to go forward.

The session was the last chance for the Assembly to act before
Tuesday's two-year anniversary of Verniero's resignation as attorney
general, the latest date on which he could be charged for misdeeds while in 
that office.

It was the Republican-controlled Senate Judiciary Committee that last
month accused Verniero of withholding information about racial profiling by 
the State Police when he was attorney general from 1996 to 1999, then 
misleading the Senate about the issue when it was considering his 
appointment to the court.

Throughout the firestorm of allegations, Verniero and his attorney Robert 
Mintz repeated, in statements and a 44-page rebuttal of the Judiciary 
Committee's charges, that Verniero did nothing wrong.

"From the outset, the drumbeat for impeachment was premised upon a
series of unfounded allegations and unfair inferences," Mintz said
yesterday. "The record created by this process will bear this out."

Yesterday's moves by the Assembly Republican leadership enraged
Democrats, 32 of whom delivered speeches saying the failure to impeach
Verniero sullies the state's highest court, tarnishes the Legislature and 
affronts minorities who have been victims of racial profiling.

In terse, angry tones, Assemblywoman Nia Gill (D-Essex) accused Collins
of violating the constitutional rights of Assembly members and the public by 
refusing to let the Assembly even debate impeachment.

"One man in one position with one title has stilled the voice of the people 
to have a fair and open debate," Gill stated, glaring at Collins at the 
speaker's podium. "To discuss it -- you won't even allow this body to do 
that."

The move to impeach the court's newest justice began last month after
the Senate Judiciary Committee heard testimony from Verniero and other
present and former officials of the Attorney General's Office about racial 
profiling -- the illegal targeting of minorities for traffic stops and 
searches.

The committee concluded Verniero had misled it during his May 1999
confirmation hearings, and had withheld data pertaining to racial profiling 
from legislators, the U.S. Department of Justice and the courts.

While all 11 members of the bipartisan Senate committee called for
impeachment, only the Assembly can bring articles of impeachment.
When Collins announced April 26 that he would not allow the measure to
be introduced, he suggested the committee instead turn its evidence over the 
Mercer County Prosecutor's Office for prosecution under perjury laws. Sen. 
William Gormley (R-Atlantic), the committee chairman, rejected that idea.

Responding to the criticism heaped upon him yesterday, Collins capped
the four-hour discussion with an impassioned defense of his decision.

"I made this decision; I stand on it," he declared, his voice rising. "I 
believe it's the right thing for New Jersey, for its citizens."

Collins took issue with those who suggested he should let an
impeachment proceed because the case was being watched across the
nation. "Let them look," he said. "Let them look at New Jersey, which has 
said under our rules, given to us by this House, under this Constitution, it 
was determined that this was not in the best interests of New Jersey."

The Assembly gallery was initially packed with demonstrators who
shouted and clapped in protest of a 11/2-hour delay in the start of the
session. Others yelled, "I don't recall," a reference to Verniero's 
testimony before the Judiciary Committee, in which he said he could not 
remember of meetings he attended and documents on racial profiling. The 
crowd left before the vote.

Earlier in the day, Senate Democrats held a news conference during
which Debra Rolax, whose son Sherron was captured on film being
frisked by Gov. Christie Whitman in 1996, decried the "evils of racial
profiling."

While members of the Senate Judiciary Committee have asserted that the
charges were an issue separate from the issue of racial profiling, Payne and 
other Democrats portrayed impeachment as a chance for redress for minority 
drivers subjected to years of discriminatory roadside stops and searches.

Assemblywoman Bonnie Watson-Coleman (D-Mercer) called Verniero "a
living, big, great, huge symbol of that injustice that we experience every 
day simply riding on the roadways of New Jersey."

While Verniero has had few defenders throughout the controversy,
several Republicans rose to his defense yesterday.

Assemblyman Gary Stuhltrager (R-Salem) said the Senate Judiciary
Committee's report "contained no evidence in terms of lying or
misrepresentation."

Rather, he said, the fervor to oust Verniero had been driven by politics and 
by personal dislike of Verniero for his political ambition and aloofness in 
his former post as counsel to Whitman. "He was lucky. Maybe he rubbed some 
people the wrong way," Stuhltrager said. "They are not grounds for asking 
for his resignation; those aren't grounds for impeachment."

Gormley said the justice should find no vindication in escaping
impeachment. The full Senate last week approved a resolution calling for 
Verniero's resignation. Acting Gov. Donald DiFrancesco and all three major 
gubernatorial candidates also have demanded that Verniero step down.

"This is beyond not getting a hint," Gormley said of Verniero's refusal to 
quit.

The allegations against Verniero could become an issue when he appears 
before the committee for reappointment in 2006.

Mintz said Verniero, who spent yesterday working in his Flemington
chambers, was not concerned with that.

"Throughout this process, Justice Verniero has devoted all of his energies 
to his duties on the court," Mintz said. "He has remained focused and 
productive and he looks forward to continuing to do so."

Staff writer Dunstan McNichol contributed to this report.

MARCH ON TRENTON TO DEFEAT RACIST PROFILING & POLICE BRUTALITY -
WEDNESDAY MAY 16 contact joe smith 732.729.0390 can_bush@...
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1549
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-09 15:31:36
Subject:Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: Failing to Plan is Planning to Fail
Message:

now who is left sloganeering? i suggest that the greens join the progressive 
movement and organize to defeat the republicans. let new jersey send a 
message to the nation - bush2 is illegitimate and all republicans must be 
buried. new jersey shall initiate/join the peoples' war on the right.

joe

ps- what do you think will happen to mumia when bush2 gets around to him?


>From: jfortun845@...
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: can_bush@..., JFortun845@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, njfo@yahoogroups.com, 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Re: Failing to Plan is Planning to Fail
>Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:04:27 EDT
>
>In a message dated 5/9/01 1:21:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>can_bush@... writes:
>
>
> > you criticize bush2 after you put him there.
> >
> >
>
>Wrong again. Ralph Nader and the Greens continually criticized both the
>Republicans and the Democrats at one and the same time and in the same
>sentences. You are merely perpetuating Democratic Party propaganda and 
>doing
>their bidding by claiming Nader didn't attack Bush. Moreover, you are
>perpetuating the myth that the people only have the choice of Democrats and
>Republicans and that this choice makes some kind of significant difference.
>This is just the warmed over old CP line. We advanced the progressive 
>agenda,
>such as universal healthcare, a living wage, and end to the death penalty, 
>an
>end to police brutality, an end to corporate welfare, justice for
>Palestinians,etc., to name just a few issues on which both Dems and Repubs
>advanced reactionary positions.
>
>Look at the Leonard Peltier case for example. During the debate with at
>WISOMMM, Amiri argued that we had to support the Dems because they would
>treat our political prisoners better (Peltier and Mumia were mentioned)....
>Well, that worked out real well with Peltier, didn't it? Relying on the
>pro-death penalty, pro-police, pro-drug war anti-people Dems is not
>progressive by any stretch of the imagination. To support the Dems at this
>stage is to build cynicism and also tails behind the people, who are
>increasingly fed up with the two-party system.
>
>Break away from the two-party system! Throw all the bums out, Ds &Rs! Build 
>a
>true mass party of the people! Unite the many to defeat the few! Support a
>progressive African-American for Governor, Jerry Coleman. Support a
>Progressive Agenda.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1550
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-12 00:12:24
Subject:Protest/Rally against Racist Republicans
Message:

Protest Racist Republicans defending Verneiro!
2:00pm Today - Saturday   contact Joe Smith 732.729.0390

Meet at George St. Fountain for initial protest - March to Remsen and 
Baldwin to burn Confeserate Flag. Work to organize/defend New Brunswick 
community against Racist Profiling & Police Brutality, also Promote March on 
Trenton May 16.

Sunday @ 2:00pm Sign/Banner making Barbeque for March on Trenton May 16 to 
Defeat Racist Profiling. 211 Redmond St. New Brunswick, backyard.


for today's homenews tribune article about Racist Republicans defending 
Verneiro click on this link below.
http://www.injersey.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,392590,00.html
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1551
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-12 13:26:37
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Waste the Republicans! - vote McGreasy
Message:

I CHARGE BOL/SWORD WITH BEING EGALITARIANS



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1552
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-12 13:36:55
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: Failing to Plan is Planning to Fail
Message:

EGOS DO NOT FLOAT



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1553
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-12 13:40:53
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: Failing to Plan is Planning to Fail
Message:

TALES FROM THE WALL SIDE



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1554
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-12 16:54:19
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Waste the Republicans! - vote McGreasy
Message:

Hey Tracy,

Where and when do you preach?  Some of us are considering checking 
you out.

I hope it's ok that we're Catholic!

JML

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., TRACYFORD1420@W... wrote:
> I CHARGE BOL/SWORD WITH BEING EGALITARIANS
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1555
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-12 21:06:30
Subject:No Dead End yet to Impeach Verneiro
Message:

Racist Profiling and the November election?

Democrats will not stop road to Impeachment:
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/page1/ledger/133b075.html

We must organize to seize power where we can win! In elections that the 
peoples' "representatives" cannot win (currently state & national) 
organizers must address and organize around the contradictions amongst the 
ruling parties. Present conditions dictate that the people must defeat the 
Republican Party candidate. Although the Democrats are not representatives 
of the people, the Republicans are openly the greater threat with their 
aggressive/obvious White Supremacist attacks.
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1556
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-13 00:13:01
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Waste the Republicans! - vote McGreasy
Message:

NEXT I PREACH WILL BE SEPT.
I WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN AND WHERE. ALL ARE WELCOME.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1557
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-13 01:46:04
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Waste the Republicans! - vote McGreasy
Message:

sept. 4 racist murders hogan and kenna go to trial - all are welcome


>From: TRACYFORD1420@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Waste the Republicans! - vote McGreasy
>Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 00:13:01 -0400 (EDT)
>
>NEXT I PREACH WILL BE SEPT.
>I WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN AND WHERE. ALL ARE WELCOME.
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1558
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-15 08:46:53
Subject:Fwd: March on Trenton Defeat Racist Profiling!
Message:


(some may get this mail twice, the second one is to forward around.
those that get it once, the first one is to forward)

                  MARCH 2 DEFEAT RACIST PROFILING!!
This Wednesday, May 16, a coalition of New Jersey organizations
aimed at Defeating Racist Profiling & Police Brutality will lead a
March on the Trenton State House to demand and organize for
Democratic Community Control over Police. New Jersey is the
poster-state for Racist Profiling and with this upcoming
gubernatorial election we must put forward the position Waste/Bury
Racist Republicans!

Buses will be leaving New Brunswick Public Library at 9:00am
for contact info call Joe Smith 732.729.0390 or 732.586.5535 or
e-mail can_bush@...

Buses will also be leaving Newark - for meeting point/time and all
info contact Larry Hamm 973.801.0001

If you will not be traveling from these points meet at the
Statehouse in Trenton @12:00 noon

(this is a general announcement, for any particular information call
or e-mail Joe)
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1559
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-16 16:32:17
Subject:Fwd: Action Alert: Democracy Now! Thrown Off the Air
Message:


>Pacifica Campaign Action Alert
>Democracy Now! Thrown Off the Air
>
>Amy Goodman was yanked off the air today (Wednesday) at Pacifica station
>KPFK in Los Angeles and WBAI in New York. At WBAI, Democracy Now! was
>preempted entirely. At KPFK, an old edition of the program was aired.
>
>PROTEST THE ATTACK ON DEMOCRACY NOW!
>CALL THE FUND-DRIVE TALLY ROOMS
>
>Call KPFK at 1-818-985-KPFK (5735)
>Call WBAI at 1-212-209-2950
>
>Protest Pacifica management�s harassment of Amy and Democracy Now! and ask
>that the editorial integrity of the program be respected. Call for the
>Democracy Now! to be returned to the air.
>
>Let your voice be heard!
>
>Please be polite and patient. You will be speaking with tally room
>volunteers. Let them know what is happening. Please call as many times as
>you feel necessary to get your message across.
>
>Background:
>
>Democracy Now! was canceled in the wake of yesterday�s Congressional 
>hearing
>on the Pacifica crisis before the Progressive Caucus. Also yesterday, Board
>Treasurer Micheal Palmer resigned. Pacifica managers were clearly worried
>about whether Democracy Now! would cover the story, which The Washington
>Post, among others, reported on today.
>
>KPFK management, in an attempt to discredit Amy, provided listeners with 
>the
>flimsy excuse that Amy supposedly refused to provide fund drive programming
>to the station. Even if this charge were true, which it is not, that is
>hardly a reason to run an old edition of the program. KPFK could have 
>easily
>played today�s version. Amy is pitching normally at Pacifica stations WPFW
>and KPFA.
>
>At WBAI, as tri-state area listeners know, Amy is being harassed on a daily
>basis by General Manager Utrice Leid. On-air and off-air, she has called 
>Amy
>a racist, a liar, unethical, and publicly claimed that Amy "defecates" and
>"vomits" on the air.
>
>Twice this week, and only minutes before air-time, the station manager
>kicked Amy and the Democracy Now! production team out of WBAI�s main
>broadcast studio and forced them into a small, sub-standard production
>studio. Democracy Now! is the only program that has been relegated to the
>space -- a clear demonstration of Pacifica management's consistent campaign
>of harrassment and censorship of Amy Goodman and Democracy Now!
>
>
>C
>**********************************************
>Mailing Address:
>The Pacifica Campaign
>51 MacDougal St., #80
>New York, NY  10012
>Tel: (646) 230-9588
>
>http://www.pacificacampaign.org
>pacificacampaign@...
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1560
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-17 08:03:12
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] breaking news: - Michael Palmer will resign from Pacifica Board!
Message:


A WBAI victory.

Stay strong and pay close attention....

Pacifica Board!
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 14:37:22 -0700 (PDT)

breaking news: an announcement from Pacifica Board Chair David Acosta was 
read by Congressman Major Owens today at about 4:45pm, at the end of the 
Progressive Caucus forum on the crisis at Pacifica.

Acosta announced that Michael Palmer, currently treasurer of the Pacifica 
Nat'l Board, will resign.  No explanation or effective date was given for 
the resignation.
>
This is a significant victory for the movement to take back Pacifica and 
WBAI!  Most of you will recall that Palmer is one of the corporate
>hi-jackers who have been destroying Pacifica; he wrote the infamous memo in 
>1999 which revealed their plans and intention to ruin the network and to 
>sell KPFA and/or WBAI.  Good riddance Palmer!  Next out the door, the rest 
>of the corporate gang: John Murdock, Ken Ford, David Acosta, Bessie Wash, 
>Utrice Leid!

- pat.




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1561
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-17 09:07:21
Subject:BUILDING BRIDGES FORUM ON WBAI
Message:

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 07:46:42 -0400

An upcoming event.

Stay strong and pay close attention.

Juanita



   Thursday, May 24th at 6 PM
   "Building Bridges: Your Community & Labor Report"

   will present a forum


The Crisis at WBAI & Pacifica Radio
The Labor and Community Fightback
with Mimi Rosenberg and Ken Nash

past and future hosts of WBAI's "Building Bridges"


   Sponsored by NY Public Library Guild
   Local 1930, DC 37
   at DC 37 AFSCME, 125 Barclay Street (near City Hall)
   Room 3



For more information call 212-815-1699 or email knash@...



Also check out the BB web site -  www.buildingbridgesradio.org



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1562
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-17 09:57:59
Subject:Democrats can seize majority of assembly
Message:

Some of those same republicans that blocked impeachment in the senate are up 
for election. The Democrats have the chance to seize the majority of the 
assembly which "promises" the continued move towards verneiro's impeachment.

home news article:

http://www.injersey.com/news/backstories.pl?paper=2&id=394827
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1563
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-18 08:58:49
Subject:Fwd: UPDATE: DEMOCRACY NOW!
Message:

IMPORTANT INFORMATION.

Stay strong and pay close attention....

J-

From: CFNJ-Communications <siddharta5@...>
To: friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Fwd: UPDATE: DEMOCRACY NOW!
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 17:36:10 -0700 (PDT)


--- Eileen Sutton <efsutton@...> wrote:
  > Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:52:32 -0400
  > To: savewbai@..., NYC-DAN@..., nyfreemedia@...
  > From: Eileen Sutton <efsutton@...>
  > Subject: UPDATE: DEMOCRACY NOW!
  > Reply-to: savewbai@...
  >
  > < < <  UPDATE ON DEMOCRACY NOW!  > > >
  >
  > Friends,
  >
  > Democracy Now! was thrown off the air for the second day in both L.A. 
and New York.  At WBAI, DN was preempted entirely. At KPFK, an old
>  > edition of the program was aired both days (today KPFK aired a DN
>  > segment on lyricist on lifelong socialist Yip Harberg, who had been 
>blacklisted). Sources inside WBAI say there is no indication when
>  > Democracy Now! will return to WBAI's air.
>  >
>  > Call and protest Pacifica management's harassment of Democracy Now! and 
>ask that the editorial integrity of DN be respected. Call for
>  > Democracy Now! to be played in full, every day. Ask for the real
>  > deal, no fakes and no frauds. That day's version of Democracy Now!
>  > only.
>  >
>  > Your calls to the tally room are having tremendous effect, and on the> 
>air today, WBAI staff admitted the small number of pledges coming in.
>  >
>  > FLOOD THE TALLY ROOM AND INTERIM MANAGER UTRICE LEID WITH
>  > CALLS...DEMAND THAT DEMOCRACY NOW! BE PUT BACK ON THE AIR!
>  >
>  > Please join the WBAI morning picket on Friday, 7:30 a.m. to 9:00
>  > a.m., to support Amy, as well as all the fired and the banned.  The 
>station is trying once again to raise money to support an
>  > illegitimate coup.  And this may be the opening salvo by Pacifica to
>  > remove Democracy Now! for good.
>  >
>  > JOIN THE MORNING PICKET AT WBAI FRIDAY! GREAT ENERGY!  THERE HAVE
>  > BEEN SEVERAL GREAT PICKETS THIS WEEK!
>  >
>  > Tally: 212-209-2950; Leid: 212-209-2800
>  >
>  > 120 Wall St., walk East to the river
>  > 4, 5, 2, 3 trains to Wall St.
>  >
>  > Free the media!
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > PROTEST THE ATTACK ON DEMOCRACY NOW!
>  > CALL THE FUND-DRIVE TALLY ROOMS
>  >
>  > Call KPFK at 1-818-985-KPFK (5735)
>  > Call WBAI at 1-212-209-2950
>  >
>  > Protest Pacifica management's harassment of Amy and Democracy Now! and
>ask
>  > that the editorial integrity of the program be respected. Call for
>Democracy
>  > Now! to be played in full, every day. Ask for the real deal, no fakes 
>and
>no
>  > frauds. That day's version of Democracy Now! only.
>  >
>  > Let your voice be heard!
>  >
>  > Please be polite and patient. You will be speaking with tally room
>  > volunteers. Let them know what is happening. Please call as many times 
>as
>  > you feel necessary to get your message across.
>  >
>  > Background:
>  >
>  > Democracy Now! was canceled in the wake of yesterday's Congressional
>hearing
>  > on the Pacifica crisis before the Progressive Caucus. Also yesterday,
>Board
>  > Treasurer Micheal Palmer resigned. Pacifica managers were clearly 
>worried
>  > about whether Democracy Now! would cover the story, which The 
>Washington
>  > Post, among others, reported on today.
>  >
>  > KPFK management, in an attempt to discredit Amy, provided listeners 
>with
>the
>  > flimsy excuse that Amy supposedly refused to provide fund drive
>programming
>  > to the station. Even if this charge were true, which it is not, that is
>  > hardly a reason to run an old edition of the program. KPFK could have
>easily
>  > played today's version.
>  >
>  > Amy is pitching normally at Pacifica stations WPFW and KPFA.
>  >
>  > At WBAI, as tri-state area listeners know, Amy is being harassed on a
>daily
>  > basis by General Manager Utrice Leid. On-air and off-air, she has 
>called
>Amy
>  > a racist, a liar, unethical, and publicly claimed that Amy "defecates"
>and
>  > "vomits" on the air.
>  >
>  > Twice this week, and only minutes before air-time, the station manager
>  > kicked Amy and the Democracy Now! production team out of WBAI's main
>  > broadcast studio and forced them into a small, sub-standard production
>  > studio. Democracy Now! is the only program that has been relegated to 
>the
>  > space -- a clear demonstration of Pacifica management's consistent
>campaign
>  > of harrassment and censorship of Amy Goodman and Democracy Now!
>  >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
>http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1564
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-18 10:43:53
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] Protest on May 19th in Irvington
Message:

Subject: [poprogress] Protest on May 19th in Irvington
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 00:31:07 EDT


There will be a rally in Irvington on Saturday, May 19th at 12:00 to protest 
the racist police murder of the Bilal Colbert.  The rally will be at the 
place where he was gunned down on the corner of 18th Avenue and 22nd Street.

for info contact larry hamm @973.801.0001
or joe smith @732.729.0390 can_bush@...
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1565
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-18 11:14:18
Subject:hearing things
Message:

why do i hear that some in the nb peoples' campaign are on the sly promoting 
frank bright to run for mayor of new brunswick? to those involved with this 
activity, you are fucked up cowards and more backwards than a dog that eats 
its own vomit.

joe
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1566
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-18 13:33:01
Subject:Re: [nbpc] hearing things
Message:

what are you talking about?


>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, njfo@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] hearing things
>Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:14:18 -0400
>
>why do i hear that some in the nb peoples' campaign are on the sly 
>promoting
>frank bright to run for mayor of new brunswick? to those involved with this
>activity, you are fucked up cowards and more backwards than a dog that eats
>its own vomit.
>
>joe
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1567
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-18 13:36:22
Subject:Re: [nbpc] hearing things
Message:

IF THAT TRUE , I AM BEHIND IT 200%.  WHAT KIND OF COWARDLINESS THAT
BOL/SWORD PRODUCING BY SAYING IT NOT FORWARD ? BOL/SWORD ARE BACKBITERS,
DESPITEFUL,PROUD, BOASTERS, AND EXPERTS OF EVIL THINGS



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1568
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-18 15:09:16
Subject:Re: [nbpc] hearing things
Message:

Yes, the NBPC is gonna secretly run a Republican slate of candidates, 
and the posters around town will show them self-flagellating as they 
struggle to resist eating dog puke off a hot July sidewalk on Remsen 
Ave. 

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@h...> wrote:
> what are you talking about?
> 
> 
> >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y..., njfo@y...
> >Subject: [nbpc] hearing things
> >Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:14:18 -0400
> >
> >why do i hear that some in the nb peoples' campaign are on the sly 
> >promoting
> >frank bright to run for mayor of new brunswick? to those involved 
with this
> >activity, you are fucked up cowards and more backwards than a dog 
that eats
> >its own vomit.
> >
> >joe
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1569
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-18 22:28:17
Subject:republican wit...
Message:

Why no 'Springtime
                     for Stalin'? 

                     05/17/01

                     The huge success of that Broadway
                     comedy about Adolf Hitler, "The
                     Producers," got me thinking: How come
                     no one ever makes fun of that other
                     lovable dictator who slaughtered millions,
                     Joe Stalin? 

                     "The Producers" is a laugh riot, critics say. The 
movie version was
                     certainly funny. But Stalin is being shortchanged. 
He was just as fanatical
                     as Hitler. He issued as many silly orders. He even 
overran Poland. So
                     where's his musical? 

                     I started thinking about this after I got a copy 
of the new book "Commies"
                     by Ronald Radosh. Radosh is one of the leading 
neoconservative writers
                     in America, but he began life as a so-called "red 
diaper baby." His
                     parents were New York City Marxists, and he 
attended high school at the
                     so-called "Little Red Schoolhouse" in Greenwich 
Village, where most of
                     the teachers were advocates of world socialism. 

                     In summer, he attended "commie camp," sleeping out 
in the woods of
                     upstate New York with the sons and daughters of 
Manhattan Marxists. He
                     went to college at the University of Wisconsin in 
the '60s and worked
                     toward a "revolution" that never quite 
materialized. 

                     As he got older, he got smarter. By the time he 
went to Nicaragua in the
                     1980s, he recognized the Sandinistas for the 
Soviet stooges they were.
                     He realized that he'd been had. He turned against 
the movement.
                     Radosh's book is the story of his personal 
transformation. It is a serious
                     work of some historical import. But if he ever 
decides to write a musical
                     comedy based on it, he's got some excellent 
material. 

                     Especially the stuff about Pete Seeger. Radosh 
first got to know Seeger
                     at commie camp, where the Harvard-educated 
hillbilly would pick up his
                     banjo and drone on endlessly about some 
unfortunate worker
                     somewhere. That's not funny. It's boring. What's 
funny is the wacky
                     situation Pete got himself into back in 1941 when, 
as part of a group
                     called the Almanac Singers, he recorded an album 
titled "Songs for John
                     Doe." 

                     Like good lefties, the Almanac Singers were trying 
to further the interests
                     of Joe Stalin. And Stalin was at that moment in a 
nonaggression pact
                     with Adolf Hitler. Any friend of Joe's was a 
friend of Pete's, so Pete threw
                     himself into the effort to keep the United States 
from going to the aid of
                     the English, who were then engaged in a lonely and 
heroic fight against
                     Hitler. The album was full of songs that lampooned 
Franklin D. Roosevelt
                     as a warmonger for wanting to help England. 
"Franklin D., Franklin D.,
                     you ain't gonna send us across the sea," went one 
lyric. Not quite as
                     pithy as "Springtime for Hitler," but quite catchy 
nonetheless. 

                     Oops. A few days after the album came out, Hitler 
invaded the Soviet
                     Union. The album was quickly recalled and all but 
a few copies were
                     destroyed. Pete and the group, which also included 
Woody Guthrie,
                     immediately cut another album, this time calling 
on the United States to
                     jump into the war alongside Uncle Joe. 

                     The switcheroo worked. The incident was largely 
lost to history, and I
                     have seen little note of it anywhere outside the 
writings of Radosh.
                     Compare this to the case of Charles Lindbergh. He 
was forever tarred by
                     his isolationism in those crucial days before 
World War II. But Seeger's
                     dalliance with Dolf was immediately forgotten. 

                     Radosh's book has a number of other interesting 
revelations in it, but I
                     think this is the only one that could be boffo at 
the box office. The idea of
                     those softheaded American lefties being so 
enamored of Stalin that they
                     actually served the purposes of Hitler -- that's 
about as funny as it gets. 

                     Can you imagine the scene where Pete and Woody -- 
like Lucy and Ethel
                     -- stand alongside the conveyor belt frantically 
trying to dispose of all
                     those embarrassing albums? A laugh riot! 

                     And then there's the scene where they stay up all 
night rewriting the
                     lyrics: "What'll we do with this song 'If I Had a 
Himmler'?" asks Woody. 

                     "I got it!" says Pete. "How about "If I Had a 
Hammer'?" 

                     "Yeah," says Woody. "That's the ticket!" 

                     What a yukfest! I can't wait to see it. Actually, 
I'll have to wait. The
                     American left has a hard time confronting its 
past, perhaps because its
                     past isn't much different from its present. Radosh 
discusses dozens of his
                     former comrades who moved seamlessly into 
positions of power in politics
                     and journalism. Perhaps the most prominent was his 
old pal Michael
                     Lerner, who in 1973 wrote a book titled "The New 
Socialist Revolution"
                     and in 1993 emerged as spiritual adviser to the 
Clintons. 

                     I suspect this is why American liberals can laugh 
at Hitler but not at Stalin.
                     They don't get the joke. If Stalin's spiritual 
heir Fidel Castro showed up in
                     Manhattan tomorrow, most Americans would yuk it up 
at that corny
                     beard-and-fatigue routine. But a whole lot of 
Democratic deep thinkers
                     would line up to give him an even warmer reception 
than he got back in
                     1959, when at least the shtick was new. 

                     So it will probably be a few more years before the 
American thinking
                     classes start satirizing their own pet dictators. 
When they finally get
                     around to it, however, the lefties will be able to 
put on a heck of a show.
                     They've already got a lot of experience tap-
dancing around the truth. All
                     they need is some words and music. 

                     Paul Mulshine is a Star-Ledger columnist. 








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1570
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-18 23:05:43
Subject:Fwd: Re: happy mayday yrself! be safe...
Message:



>From: "Greg Di Gesu" <gregdig65@...>
>To: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Subject: Re: happy mayday yrself! be safe...
>Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 22:00:40 -0400
>
>    Cliff,
>
>          Thanks!!!  Here's something fairly disturbing put out by the 
>Texas
>Dept of Criminal Justice: final meal requests!!!
>
>                http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/finalmeals.htm
>
>
>                                            greg
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1571
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-20 16:18:37
Subject:run, al, run!
Message:

Sharpton tells magazine he'd like to run
                     for president 

                     The Associated Press
                     5/20/01 1:07 PM

                     NEW YORK (AP) -- The Rev. Al Sharpton is planning 
to run for president
                     in 2004, Time magazine reported Sunday. 

                     "I feel that the Democratic Party must be 
challenged in 2004 because it
                     didn't fight aggressively to protect our voting 
rights in Florida," he said in
                     the issue on newsstands Monday. "I think we need 
to look at running a
                     black in the primary. I have said I would be 
available to do it." 

                     Sharpton said the idea came to him while he sat 
under a tree in Sudan,
                     which he visited in April on a fact-finding tour 
about slavery. 

                     He denied that he was taking advantage of the Rev. 
Jesse Jackson's
                     tarnished image. "I'm not one to think that Rev. 
Jackson's finished," he
                     said. "I'm not trying to take advantage of his 
travail. My rise is not at
                     Jesse's expense. If I'm rising it's because I've 
done the work on issues
                     like police brutality that affect huge numbers of 
our people." 

                     In January, Jackson, who ran for president in 1984 
and 1988,
                     acknowledged having fathered an out-of-wedlock 
child with a woman on
                     the staff of his Washington office. 

                     Sharpton, who was preaching at several New York 
City churches on
                     Sunday, could not immediately be reached for 
comment, but his
                     spokeswoman Rachel Noerdlinger confirmed that he 
was considering
                     running for president. 

                     Sharpton ran for U.S. Senate in New York in 1994 
and came in third in a
                     four-way contest in the Democratic primary with 25 
percent of the vote. In
                     1997, he took 32 percent of the vote in a 
Democratic mayoral primary. 








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1572
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-20 17:38:31
Subject:Fwd: Re: [poprogress] Protest/Rally against Racist Republicans
Message:


Green Nader , even in the face of  vile acts of Bushwackers since you all 
helped give them election, you all still refuse to make SELF CRITICISM!!
  Tax Robbery up to 4 TRILLION, CO2, ARSENIC  copouts, Artic Drilling Right 
On, CHINA (Nader's line on China as warped as B2's; UN ouster from Human Rts 
& Drug Commissions, B2's refusal to deliberate on Chemical Weapons, Ouster 
of  Natl Lawyers from grading of Judges; setting up of Law clerks of Scalia 
and Thomas for next Extreme Ct ;  What does it take?
       And now you want Franks in? What does it take??  AMIRI B

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1573
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-21 09:54:08
Subject:Re: [poprogress] Protest/Rally against Racist Republicans
Message:

you are not chipping away at anything by working to divide the progressive 
vote - which only benefits the republicans. the people must be organized to 
waste the republicans, not fooled by greens who promote that they cannot 
challenge. the republicans represent the most backwards and viscous elements 
of imperialism and must be the target of our united front in new jersey. it 
is correct under these conditions to build an open, tactical, temporary 
alliance with mcgreasy in order to bury franks.
you have achieved no victory, let alone personal, by being smoothed into 
running for governor - you have been duped. who will replace you on the 
Rahway city council? you must continue to organize Rahway for peoples' 
democracy - with demands for democratic community control over education, 
police, housing, childcare, redevelopment...this is how the progressive 
movement must organize - throughout NJ on local levels where we can win.

joe smith



>From: jerrylcoleman@...
>Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [poprogress] Protest/Rally against Racist Republicans
>Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 06:58:42 EDT
>
>
>From: The Desk Of Jerry L. Coleman, NJGP Candidate for Governor
>
>Where there is no struggle there is no possibility of victory. You can 
>start
>the process of struggle today or you can sit around and just wait for 
>another
>day,
>week, month, year or decade to come and go.
>
>I have already acheived personal victory over my enemies by being bold 
>enough
>to accept the challenge of running for Governor in the state of New Jersey.
>We must continue to run our candidate on all levels. As all of you are 
>aware,
>the door has been open for quite some time for interested individuals to 
>seek
>local,
>county, state and federal elected seats as Green Party Candidates. That
>opportunity
>still exist today.
>
>Some of  you are aware that I served on the Rahway City Council for eight
>years.
>During this time period I was not supported by the republicans or the
>democrats.
>I always ran as the "People Choice Democratic Candidate". I was not then 
>and
>I
>am not now afraid of the political or economic giants that you and I have
>faced in the
>past and will surely be confronted with in the future.
>
>I examined the election history in the 7th congressional district where Bob
>Franks
>served as representative. The democrats have not held that seat for several
>years.
>However, they never stop running a candidate for this congressional 
>district.
>As a
>matter of fact, when Franks decided to run for the U.S. Senate seat against
>Corzine,
>the democrats certainly felt that this was there opportunity to win in the
>7th.
>History has proved that the voters  still  elected a republican in the 7th.
>The same
>holds true in the reverse for other congressional, state, county and  local
>seats.
>Each of the aforementioned parties continue to run candidates in districts
>that they
>never win.
>
>In conclusion, I plan to get as much exposure as I can this year in an 
>effort
>to get
>the message out to the people. We must continue to chip away at the base of
>our political opposition. We must continue to expose both parties for what
>they are.
>We are making some progress. We are building for the future.
>
>Grace and Peace
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1574
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-21 09:57:53
Subject:Re: [poprogress] Protest/Rally against Racist Republicans
Message:

from the desk of an iMac

you better vote democrat, you already admit that you can't win. how else you 
suggest the people can waste franks?

joe

From: jerrylcoleman@...
Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [poprogress] Protest/Rally against Racist Republicans
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 07:18:40 EDT



From The Desk Of Jerry L. Coleman

The Democrats do not own my vote nor do they own any other person's vote. 
They have not earned the right to have my vote.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1575
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-21 10:01:37
Subject:Fwd: Re: [poprogress] Protest/Rally against Racist Republicans
Message:


From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
To: amirib@...
Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: Re: [poprogress] Protest/Rally against 
Racist Republicans
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:20:29 -0400

this is the green candidate for governor - these people are claiming that 
they can't win, but that they are going to "chip away" - by splitting the 
progressive vote and working to benifit the republicans??


From: jerrylcoleman@...
Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [poprogress] Protest/Rally against Racist Republicans
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 06:58:42 EDT


From: The Desk Of Jerry L. Coleman, NJGP Candidate for Governor

Where there is no struggle there is no possibility of victory. You can start 
the process of struggle today or you can sit around and just wait for 
another day, week, month, year or decade to come and go.

I have already acheived personal victory over my enemies by being bold
enough to accept the challenge of running for Governor in the state of New 
Jersey. We must continue to run our candidate on all levels. As all of you 
are aware, the door has been open for quite some time for interested 
individuals to seek local, county, state and federal elected seats as Green 
Party Candidates. That opportunity
still exist today.

Some of  you are aware that I served on the Rahway City Council for eight 
years. During this time period I was not supported by the republicans or the 
democrats. I always ran as the "People Choice Democratic Candidate". I was 
not then and I am not now afraid of the political or economic giants that 
you and I have faced in the past and will surely be confronted with in the 
future.

I examined the election history in the 7th congressional district where Bob 
Franks served as representative. The democrats have not held that seat for 
several years. However, they never stop running a candidate for this 
congressional district. As a matter of fact, when Franks decided to run for 
the U.S. Senate seat against Corzine, the democrats certainly felt that this 
was there opportunity to win in the 7th.
History has proved that the voters  still  elected a republican in the
7th.The same holds true in the reverse for other congressional, state,
county and  local seats. Each of the aforementioned parties continue to run 
candidates in districts that they never win.

In conclusion, I plan to get as much exposure as I can this year in an
effort to get the message out to the people. We must continue to chip away 
at the base of our political opposition. We must continue to expose both 
parties for what they are. We are making some progress. We are building for 
the future.

Grace and Peace


>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1576
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-21 10:06:15
Subject:Fwd: URGENT: Pacifica Campaign News Update
Message:



>From: "JUANITA LEWIS" <epsilon1_2000@...>
>Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, SRichard@..., 
>Ibrahim_S_Hughes@...
>Subject: [poprogress] Fwd: URGENT:  Pacifica Campaign News Update
>Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 22:51:39 -0400
>
>POP Family,
>
>Urgent news on the WBAI struggle.
>
>Stay strong and pay close attention....
>
>
>From: Juan Gonzalez <pacificacampaign@...>
>To: Juan Gonzalez <pacificacampaign@...>
>Subject: Pacifica Campaign News Update
>Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 22:28:15 -0400
>
>May 20, 2001
>
>Dear Friend,
>
>We have reached a critical point in our campaign to save the Pacifica
>network. Our movement is winning, but to achieve the quickest victory
>possible we need your help.
>
>Last week, we achieved our most stunning successes yet:
>
>On Monday, at a congressional forum in Washington, D.C., sponsored by
>Brooklyn Congressman Major Owens, community activists, listeners, dissident 
> >board members, and fired Pacifica employees testified about the growing 
> >crisis at the network. Pacifica managers refused Owens request to 
>personally >testify and explain their actions and policies, while the 
>entire forum was >reported in an extensive article in The Washington Post.
>
>That same afternoon, Pacifica board treasurer Micheal Palmer resigned. His 
> >resignation followed months of protests at the offices of his employer, 
>CB >Richard Ellis. It came after two members of the Pacifica Campaign 
>delivered >a letter to the company1s CEO at corporate headquarters in Los 
>Angeles and >met with a top assistance of the CEO. At that meeting they 
>warned of more >protests to come if Palmer remained on the board. We 
>believe his resignation >was directly related to our peaceful but effective 
>pressure.
>
>Then on Tuesday, as several Pacifica stations began their May fundraising 
> >drive, network management committed a major blunder by launching its most 
> >obvious attack yet on Amy Goodman and Democracy Now! Utrice Leid, the 
> >interim station manger at New York1s WBAI, and Steve Yasko, the national 
> >programming director, suddenly ordered that Democracy Now! would no 
>longer >use the main studio at WBAI to originate the show. Instead, Amy was 
>shunted >off to a smaller and technologically inferior alternate studio at 
>the >station. When the fund drive started the following day, Democracy Now! 
>was >pre-empted in New York without any warning to Amy and without any 
> >explanation to the listeners. The same thing happened at KPFK in Los 
> >Angeles, where management  ran old tapes of the show but broadcast a 
>short >message falsely claiming that Amy  had refused to fundraise. This 
>was an
>obvious lie since her show continued to be broadcast at the three other 
> >Pacifica stations -- and at two of them, Berkeley1s KPFA and Washington1s 
> >WPFW, she did fundraise. In Houston, they played the regular Democracy 
>Now! >show but KPFT did its own fundraising.
>
>This attempt to silence Democracy Now! has sparked a furor among listeners. 
> >WBAI and KPFK have been flooded with thousands of telephone calls, while 
> >loud protests occured outside each station. The outrage and phone calls 
> >continued for the rest of the week virtually paralyzing phone lines and 
> >severely affecting fundraising. A full-scale listener rebellion is 
>underway. >On Friday, for example, a day when WBAI usually raises more than 
>$75,000 >commemorating Malcolm X, the station barely registered $15,000 in 
>pledges.
>Show hosts at the station who backed the Christmas Coup were so stunned 
>they
>repeatedly referred to the boycott on the air, as they launched into angry
>attacks against Amy and the Pacifica reform movement.
>
>Finally, on Friday our movement launched a daily evening news broadcast of
>Free Speech Radio News, the program of the striking free lancers of
>Pacifica. More than 20 Pacifica affiliates dropped the Pacifica Network 
>News
>(PNN) and are replacing it with Free Speech Radio News as a way of
>registering affiliate opposition to Pacifica policies. We at the Pacifica
>Campaign have provided funding to keep Free Speech Radio News as daily
>program for at least the next month, and hopefully longer. And, in what is
>sure to be a major psychological blow to Pacifica, Verna Avery-Brown, the
>distinguised longtime anchor of PNN until she resigned in protest against
>the network1s policies more than a year ago, has now become the anchor of
>Free Speech Radio News.
>
>Yes, this was truly a historic week. The hijackers at Pacifica are
>shell-shocked, but they have not yet surrendered. This coming week will be
>critical. We have them on the ropes and we cannot let allow them to 
>recover.
>In fact, we must turn up the heat even higher, and turn off the water even
>more completely.
>
>We need you to become actively involved in one or all of three ways:
>
>First, keep calling your local Pacifica station during fund drive to 
>protest
>what is happening to Democracy Now! and the entire network. Call as often 
>as
>you can and talk as long as you feel necessary to get your point across.
>
>Second, participate in one of the many daily pickets outside Pacifica
>stations in Los Angeles and New York. Daily pickets are happening in front
>of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, from 7:30-9:00 am and 4:30-6:00 pm. At KPFK, 
>there
>is a daily picket 4:00-6:00 p.m. in front of the station at 3729 Cahuenga
>Blvd., North Hollywood. At both stations, there will be a super picket on
>Thursday afternoon in support of Democracy Now!
>
>Third, send a financial contribution today to our Pacifica Campaign. More
>than a thousand of you have sent donations since February. We thank-you. 
>But
>maintaining this kind of boycott and pressure on the Pacifica board is
>expensive. We now have four full-time organizers on staff in New York and
>four part-time organizers on staff in Los Angeles. We have reached hundreds
>of thousands of people through our mailings, public meetings and protests.
>But we want to bring this campaign to a successful conclusion as quickly as
>possible. Please make your tax-deductible contributions payable to the
>Institute for Media Analysis/Pacifica Campaign. The check can be mailed to
>the Pacificia Campaign, 51 MacDougal Street, #80, New York, New York 10012.
>
>We are convinced that if we can keep the boycott strong throughout the next
>few weeks, Pacifica will realize it has lost the support of its listeners.
>At that point, I believe, Epstein, Becker & Green will advise the Pacifica
>Board that it is time negotiate an end to the conflict.
>
>Thanks for all your support and trust. We are within sight of victory, of
>reclaiming Pacifica for its listeners, staff and community. Keep the
>pressure on.
>
>Hasta La Victoria,
>
>Juan Gonzalez
>
>
>Y4
>**********************************************
>Mailing Address:
>The Pacifica Campaign
>51 MacDougal St., #80
>New York, NY  10012
>Tel: (646) 230-9588
>
>http://www.pacificacampaign.org
>pacificacampaign@...
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1577
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-22 10:19:17
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] Latest Mumia Case News
Message:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "The REVEREND" <xxxxxxxxxx@...>
>To: <Overthrow@yahoogroups.com>
>Cc: <sincityara@...>
>Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 6:02 PM
>Subject: [Overthrow] Mumia news
>
>
> > If u havent allready seen this its quite abig devlopment in his case
> > DIRTY
> > The Affidavits of Mumia
> >      Abu-Jamal and his brother Weslie
> >      Cook
> >
> >      May 4, 2001
> >
> >      DECLARATION OF MUMIA ABU-JAMAL
> >      I, MUMIA ABU-JAMAL, declare:
> >
> >      I. I am the Petitioner in this action. If called as a
> >      witness I could and would testify to the following
> >      from my own personal knowledge:
> >
> >      2. I did not shoot Police Officer Daniel Faulkner. I
> >      had nothing to do with the killing of Officer Faulkner.
> >      I am innocent.
> >
> >      3. At my trial I was denied the right to defend
> >      myself I had no confidence in 'my court-appointed
> >      attorney, who never even asked me what happened
> >      the night I was shot and the police officer was
> >      killed; and I was excluded from at least half the
> >      trial.
> >
> >      4. Since I was denied all my rights at my trial I did
> >      not testify. I would not be used to make it look like I
> >      had a fair trial.
> >
> >
> >      5. I did not testify in the post-conviction proceedings
> >      in 1995 on the advice of my attorney, Leonard
> >      Weinglass, who specifically told me not to testify.
> >
> >      6. Now for the first time I have been given an
> >      opportunity to tell what happened to me in the early
> >      morning hours of December 9, 1981. This is what
> >      happened:
> >
> >      7. As a cabbie I often chose 13th and Locust Street
> >      because it was a popular club area with a lot of foot
> >      traffic.
> >
> >      8. 1 worked out of United Cab on the night of
> >      12/9/81.
> >
> >      9. I believe I had recently returned from dropping
> >      off a fare in West Philly.
> >
> >      10. I was filling out my log when I heard some
> >      shouting
> >
> >      11. 1 glanced in my rear view mirror and saw a
> >      flashing dome light of a police cruiser. This wasn't
> >      unusual.
> >
> >      12. I continued to fill out my log/trip sheet when I
> >      heard what sounded like gun shots.
> >
> >      13- I looked again into my rear view mirror and saw
> >      people running up and down Locust.
> >
> >      14. As I scanned I recognized my brother standing
> >      in the street staggering and dizzy.
> >
> >      15. I immediately exited the cab and ran to his
> >      scream.
> >
> >      16. As I came across the street I saw a uniformed
> >      cop turn toward me gun in hand, saw a flash and
> >      went down to my knees.
> >
> >      17. I closed my eyes and sat still trying to breath.
> >
> >      18. The next thing that I remember I felt myself
> >      being kicked, hit and being brought out of a stupor
> >
> >      19. When I opened my eyes, I saw cops all around
> >      me.
> >
> >      20. They were hollering and cursing, grabbing and
> >      pulling on me. I felt faint finding it hard to breath.
> >
> >
> >      21. As I looked through this cop crowd all around
> >      me, I saw my brother, blood running down his neck
> >      and a cop lying on his back on the pavement.
> >
> >      22. 1 was pulled to my feet and then rammed into a
> >      telephone pole beaten where I fell and thrown into
> >      a paddy wagon.
> >
> >      23. I think I slept until I heard the door open and a
> >      white cop in a white shirt came in cursing and hit
> >      me in the forehead.
> >
> >      24. I don't remember what he said much except a
> >      lot of "s", "black mother-ers" and what not.
> >
> >      24. 1 believe he left and I slept- I don't remember
> >      the wagon moving for a while and when it did for
> >      sometime.
> >
> >      25. I awoke to hear the driver speaking over the
> >      radio about his prisoner.
> >
> >      26. I was informed by the anonymous crackle on the
> >      radio that I was en route to the police
> >      administration building a few blocks away
> >
> >      27. Then, it sounded like "I.D.'d as M-l came on the
> >      radio band telling the driver to go to Jefferson
> >      Hospital.
> >
> >      28. Upon arrival I was thrown from the wagon to
> >      the ground and beaten.
> >
> >      29. I was beaten again at the doors of Jefferson.
> >
> >      30- Because of the blood in my lungs it was difficult
> >      to speak, and impossible to holler.
> >
> >      31. I never confessed to anything because I had
> >      nothing to confess to.
> >
> >      32. I never said I shot the policeman. I did not shoot
> >      the policeman.
> >
> >      33. 1 never said I hoped he died. I would never say
> >      something like that.
> >
> >
> >      The above statement is true
> >      and correct and was executed by me on ~ 2001, at
> >      Waynesburg, Pennsylvania.
> >
> >      Case No 99 Civ 5089 ('101-IN)
> >      Petitioner,
> >
> >      MAICRIN HORN, Commissioner,
> >      Pennsylvania Department of Corrections,
> >      and CONNOR BLAINE, Superintendent of
> >      Defendants.
> >
> >      MUMIA ABU-JAMAL
> >      UNTIED STATES DISTRICT COURT
> >
> >      EASTFRN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANiA
> >      The State Correctional Institution at Greene)
> >
> >      as posted to forum www.mumia.org 05-05-01
> >      Fatirah
> >      FREE MUMIA! FREE MUMIA! FREE MUMIA!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >      =======================================>
> >      SUPPLEMENTAL DECLARATION OF WILLIAM COOK
> >
> >      I, William Cook, declare;
> >
> >      1. If called to testify as a witness in this matter I
> >      would competently testify to the following from my
> >      own personal knowledge:
> >
> >      2. On the night of December 9, 1981 I was with my
> >      partner Kenneth Freeman, my friend from
> >      childhood.
> >
> >      3. Mumia had stopped by at my stand that night. He
> >      would do that periodically. Mumia had been robbed
> >      about a week before.
> >
> >      4. I left my gun locked up at my stand that night, but
> >      Poppi always carried his gun. It was a 38.
> >
> >      5. 1 probably was wearing a black knit cap, I had
> >      dreds and always tucked them in.
> >
> >      6. We had closed up late at night.
> >
> >      7. Kenny (Poppi) and I had hit a few bars. We were
> >      just unwinding. We used to do that all the time after
> >      we closed up the vending stand for the night.
> >
> >      8. We were headed along Locust.
> >
> >      9. Poppi had got some beer and gotten back in the
> >      car.
> >
> >      10. At Locust at about Juniper I saw flashing lights
> >      of a police car. He followed me for about a half a
> >      block and I pulled over behind another car in the
> >      first empty spot on the south side of Locust.
> >
> >      11. I had wooden bumpers on my car and they
> >      were supposed to be metal. I had been stopped for
> >      that but he never said anything about that or gave
> >      any reason to have stopped me. I never hit him.
> >
> >      12. I had never seen him before. I knew the cops
> >      that worked in the district where my stand Locust
> >      and 13th is an adjacent district but I didn't ever see
> >      him before.
> >
> >      13. I got out my car. Poppi stayed in the car in the
> >      passenger seat. I let him (the cop) know I was not
> >      happy.
> >
> >      14. After that we went back and forth verbal
> >      confrontation. He pulls out a stick or some kind of
> >      object and slaps me in the head three times. By that
> >      time he had me on the side of the car, I started
> >      bleeding profusely. So I go back to my car to get my
> >      paperwork.
> >
> >      15. 1 never raised my hand to the policeman. I may
> >      have gone to block him when he was hitting me.
> >      That's all. I am not that stupid. I never hit a cop. He
> >      hit me with a flashlight.
> >
> >      16. After that I got in the car. I was in the front seat
> >      looking in the back seat.
> >
> >      17. There were people on the street, There always
> >      were in that area. The bars were supposed to close
> >      by two o'clock but the clubs stayed open later.
> >      Some until 5 o'clock, They served drinks anyway.
> >
> >      18. I can't say I recall where other people were and
> >      I can't describe anyone was, but there were people
> >      milling about. I never saw a taxi that they later
> >      claimed was there. I don't really know how many
> >      people were on the street. But there were always
> >      people out there it didn't matter what time. It could
> >      be five in the morning and there would be people.
> >
> >      19. When I heard the first shot I was in the drivers
> >      seat facing toward the back of the car looking for
> >      something in the back seat to give to the cop like an
> >      owners card. I am not the organized type and I
> >      didn't keep papers in the glove compartment. The
> >      back seat had a lot papers and things from the
> >      stand, teddy bears, stuffed animals. We sold all that
> >      kind of stuff'. Like special stuff for the holidays like
> >      on Valentine's day we'd have Valentines and we
> >      sold novelty items and artificial flowers.
> >
> >      20. When I had gotten in my car Faulkner was in
> >      front of the car by the hood where he had stopped
> >      me and frisked me. When I was in the car looking in
> >      the back, I heard gun shots and saw sparks but I
> >      didn't see him shot. I saw flashes of a gun out of
> >      the side of my eye. He was standing in front of the
> >      car but I didn't see him shot. I was facing the back
> >      of the car.
> >
> >      21. Out of my peripheral vision I knew, I could feel
> >      other people around but I can't say where they
> >      were. His car was behind mine and the policeman
> >      was standing on the street between my car and
> >      whatever car was parked in front of me.
> >
> >      22. When I first saw my brother, he was running.
> >      He was feet away from me. We hadn't made any
> >      plans to meet that night or anything like that and 1
> >      didn't even realize that he came around that area
> >      there to pick up fares. He had nothing in his hands. I
> >      heard a shot and I saw him stumble. I didn't see
> >      who shot him. He was stumbling forward.
> >
> >      23. It is strange people told me later everything
> >      happened in a few seconds but I could never see it
> >      that way. It seemed like everything was happening
> >      at once, but it took a long time. I have tried over the
> >      years but I can't see it as a few seconds. It seems
> >      to me as if it was 45 seconds not three.
> >
> >      24. When I was looking in the back seat Poppi was
> >      still there and then I looked and Poppi's door was
> >      open. He had been in the passenger seat and I don't
> >      know which way he had gone. He left the area right
> >      after this happened.
> >
> >      25. Later Poppi talked about a plan to kill Faulkner.
> >      He told me that he was armed on that night and
> >      participated in the shooting. He was connected and
> >      knew all kinds of people. I used to ask him about it
> >      but he talked but never said much. He wasn't a
> >      talker. I didn't see Poppi for a while after that.
> >
> >      26. Poppi had been in Germany in the army. That
> >      night he was wearing his green army jacket. You
> >      know just a regulation army jacket. The jacket he
> >      always wore, He had been discharged. I don't know
> >      for what.
> >
> >      27. 1 got out. I wanted to run maybe I could have
> >      gotten away. I even started to run. I did. But I
> >      couldn't run because of my brother. Not after I saw
> >      my brother down on the ground.
> >
> >      28. I spoke to him. I told him, "I'm here for you." I
> >      don't remember his answering, but I remember he
> >      groaned.
> >
> >      29. I saw a gun on the street. It was in the gutter. I
> >      kicked it under my car. Before the cops came.
> >
> >      30. If they asked me something, I don't remember. I
> >      didn't answer them anything. I sure don't remember
> >      them reading me my rights. I knew Shoemaker. He
> >      used to stop by my stand and sit there and smoke
> >      weed. His wife used come to my stand with him.
> >
> >      31. I think they took me away before they took
> >      Mumia or the cop. I remember them pushing me.
> >      But I can't remember whether I was in a paddy
> >      wagon or a squad car or whether I was sitting up or
> >      not. My fund was just not to talk.
> >
> >      32. When they had me in the police station they
> >      threatened to kill me and throw me in the river.
> >
> >      33. I have been afraid for my life since that night. I
> >      have been afraid to tell anything about what
> >      happened. Wouldn't you be?
> >
> >      34. They took me in a room. There were two
> >      officers black and white. I was saying things to give
> >      them something to chew on.
> >
> >      35. I finally came to my senses. I didn't like the
> >      whole idea of making a statement. They wanted me
> >      to sign a statement but I just wouldn't do it, I told
> >      them I wanted to see my lawyer. I didn't like it. So I
> >      just wouldn't sign.
> >
> >      36. I think I was in jail a day or two then they let me
> >      out on bail.
> >
> >      37. I had been living in center city, but I couldn't
> >      stay there after it happened, I got help and moved
> >      out of my apartment in the middle of the night. And
> >      moved back in with my Mother.
> >
> >      38. I remember Jackson coming to my house
> >      several times . My Mother and sister were there. I
> >      don't remember him ever interviewing me. I just
> >      remember him trying to calm us.
> >
> >      39. I don't remember meeting with him anywhere
> >      else except at my Mother's house. He said court I
> >      would also be charged with murder. I had to pay
> >      him $1,000.
> >
> >      40. Alva was Preenlan's lawyer too
> >
> >      41. If they (Jackson) had said they wanted me to
> >      testify I would have done
> >      it but they
> >
> >      42. At PCRA, I was expecting to testify. Leonard and
> >      Rachel were giving me cross signals, I never did.
> >      Rachel wanted me to testify but Leonard didn't. So I
> >      didn't testify, In 1999.1 was asked to testify again
> >      and I said I would.
> >
> >      43. I will testify now.
> >
> >      44. Mumia was not holding a gun. Mumia never
> >      intervened in anything between me and......
> >
> >      45. I had nothing to do with the shooting or killing of
> >      the police officer.
> >      My brother Mumia Abu-Jamal, had nothing do with
> >      shooting or killing the policeman
> >
> >      I declare under penalty of perjury, under the laws of
> >      the State of Pennsylvania and the laws of
> >      Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1578
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-22 11:07:57
Subject:No Boycott or Division - Bury Franks!
Message:

hungerford, do you suggest that amiri does not organize the "proggressive 
activists to rally the people to struggle (below)"? can you explain to me 
what ras' campaigns been doin? U&S been doin? kimako's blues people been 
doin? his books and poetry and plays been doin? his life been doin?

(below) you say "it is the democrats who are the immediate problem" - now 
there is a contradiction?????????????? even though the point you are making 
is wrong, the fact that you point out contradictions amongst the democrats 
and republicans when it suits your purposes, but jump on me when i point out 
contradictions amongst them, is INSANE!

let us also discuss hungerford's history of leading secret "communist" 
organizations/study groups inside of U&S and then splitting from U&S when it 
comes out. now all he does is attack! and when he can't attack he blurs! no 
self-criticism, no progress-  hungerford won't even sign his own name to the 
articles he writes for his own newspaper, nor does he allow for others to 
sign their names, the same as when he produced U&S for years. there is 
nothing open and above board with these tactics and they must be addressed.

hungerford is pushing the same "boycott the election" line he pushed in 96' 
"clinton/dole both are worse".

(one example)
it plays out like this - though the masses support and fight for the head of 
verneiro, hungerford can't support senator payne drafting the impeachment 
papers because he is a democrat!? it ultimately plays out in that hungerford 
puts himself, and whoever he can dupe, between the PEOPLES' demand for 
verneiro's head and the impeachment happening.

joe


>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: Re: [poprogress] Protest/Rally against Racist Republicans
>Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 20:23:06 -0400
>
>" you all helped give them [Repubs, George II, et.al.] election, you all
>still refuse to make SELF CRITICISM!!"
>
>George II was not elected. He was imposed by the Supreme Court in a
>right-wing coup d'etat. Bush-oops! I mean Gore-discouraged any popular
>effort to prevent the coup. He made no issue of the suppression of the
>African-American vote in Florida and told trade unionists not to act. The
>coup succeeded mainly because Gore went along with it.
>
>   Gore fully confirmed the correctness of those voters who looked 
>elsewhere
>for an alternative. We are not the ones who should make self-criticism.
>Also, please do not attempt intimidation through the meaningless use of
>capital letters.
>
>"UN ouster from Human Rts & Drug Commissions"
>
>Presumably this refers to the ouster of the United States from commissions
>of the UN. To have the U.S. on the HRC is a little like having Hitler on 
>the
>board of the UJA. Its ouster, although partly due to the sharpening of
>inter-imperialist contradictions, is a good thing. I do not see why it is
>listed among the sins of Bush.
>
>  As for the other things Amiri Baraka lists, it is the duty of progressive
>activists to rally the people to struggle. In no way is it correct to rely
>on the Democrats to defend the people. If the Republicans are the butcher 
>he
>says they are, the Democrats are the Judas goat that leads the people to
>slaughter. It is the Democrats who are the immediate problem and it is from
>them that the masses must be won away.
>
>  The people are the real makers of history, not the bourgeoisie.
>Revolutionaries must rely on the masses at all times. It is entirely wrong
>and anti-Marxist to rely on the bourgeoisie to lead the struggle against
>reaction.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 5:38 PM
>Subject: Fwd: Re: [poprogress] Protest/Rally against Racist Republicans
>
>
> >
> >
> > Green Nader , even in the face of  vile acts of Bushwackers since you 
>all
> > helped give them election, you all still refuse to make SELF CRITICISM!!
> >   Tax Robbery up to 4 TRILLION, CO2, ARSENIC  copouts, Artic Drilling
>Right
> > On, CHINA (Nader's line on China as warped as B2's; UN ouster from Human
>Rts
> > & Drug Commissions, B2's refusal to deliberate on Chemical Weapons, 
>Ouster
> > of  Natl Lawyers from grading of Judges; setting up of Law clerks of
>Scalia
> > and Thomas for next Extreme Ct ;  What does it take?
> >        And now you want Franks in? What does it take??  AMIRI B
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1579
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-22 11:10:55
Subject:Open Letter to Russell Simmons
Message:

I was glad to see this letter in the Black World Today.  I don't personally 
have any feelings about Russel Simmons on this one way or the other (in fact 
I've like some of the work he's produced) but I am glad to see this Sister 
openly write this to someone in the entertainment industry because it is 
time that these entertainers take some accountability for the issues 
affecting our community.    It is time that we speak out and let them know 
that we are not too pleased with some of them.

Anyway, thought I'd pass this on.



<A 
HREF="http://www.tbwt.com/blackwomentoday/content/article.asp?articleid=721">Click 
here: Black Women Today - Content Articles</A>

http://www.tbwt.com/blackwomentoday/content/article.asp?articleid=721

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1580
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-22 11:29:52
Subject:[Overthrow] cincity swine up to thier same old tricks
Message:

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:08:20 -0400

Steve has been at ground zero for the whole sin city affair, and this is one 
of his communiques.......Power to the People! Let's not allow these things 
to stand...........

-----Original Message-----
From: The REVEREND [mailto:classwar614@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 3:21 PM
To: overthrow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Overthrow] cincity swine up to thier same old tricks


dirty,
They did it again the cops shot another person last night however they did 
not kill him they shot him in the groin-ouch. the dude allegedly had a knife 
and was "threatening" with it. I guess mase wasn't good enough even though 
that would've probally made him drop the knife. I think it's funny how the 
cops did shoot him in the groin this time. I'm sure if they weren't under so 
much scrutiny right now they would've murdered him in a second. i guess 
chief Striecher was right these investigations are making the cops hold back 
snd not do their normal job of killing people just brutalizing them. The 
march is definately on for tomarrow and I  got an email from the Kent kids 
which made it sound like the reason they weren't coming is because I didn't 
give enough info. whatever.catch you later,
jana

p.s. still tyring to come tomarrow still no money but I'm working on it.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1581
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-22 12:53:45
Subject:Re: [nbpc] No Boycott or Division - Bury Franks!
Message:

even the sopranos know
the only benefit from
divulging id's
are the feds

cliff


>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, njfo@yahoogroups.com, amirib@...
>Subject: [nbpc] No Boycott or Division - Bury Franks!
>Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:07:57 -0400
>
>hungerford, do you suggest that amiri does not organize the "proggressive
>activists to rally the people to struggle (below)"? can you explain to me
>what ras' campaigns been doin? U&S been doin? kimako's blues people been
>doin? his books and poetry and plays been doin? his life been doin?
>
>(below) you say "it is the democrats who are the immediate problem" - now
>there is a contradiction?????????????? even though the point you are making
>is wrong, the fact that you point out contradictions amongst the democrats
>and republicans when it suits your purposes, but jump on me when i point 
>out
>contradictions amongst them, is INSANE!
>
>let us also discuss hungerford's history of leading secret "communist"
>organizations/study groups inside of U&S and then splitting from U&S when 
>it
>comes out. now all he does is attack! and when he can't attack he blurs! no
>self-criticism, no progress-  hungerford won't even sign his own name to 
>the
>articles he writes for his own newspaper, nor does he allow for others to
>sign their names, the same as when he produced U&S for years. there is
>nothing open and above board with these tactics and they must be addressed.
>
>hungerford is pushing the same "boycott the election" line he pushed in 96'
>"clinton/dole both are worse".
>
>(one example)
>it plays out like this - though the masses support and fight for the head 
>of
>verneiro, hungerford can't support senator payne drafting the impeachment
>papers because he is a democrat!? it ultimately plays out in that 
>hungerford
>puts himself, and whoever he can dupe, between the PEOPLES' demand for
>verneiro's head and the impeachment happening.
>
>joe
>
>
> >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> >Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: Re: [poprogress] Protest/Rally against Racist Republicans
> >Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 20:23:06 -0400
> >
> >" you all helped give them [Repubs, George II, et.al.] election, you all
> >still refuse to make SELF CRITICISM!!"
> >
> >George II was not elected. He was imposed by the Supreme Court in a
> >right-wing coup d'etat. Bush-oops! I mean Gore-discouraged any popular
> >effort to prevent the coup. He made no issue of the suppression of the
> >African-American vote in Florida and told trade unionists not to act. The
> >coup succeeded mainly because Gore went along with it.
> >
> >   Gore fully confirmed the correctness of those voters who looked
> >elsewhere
> >for an alternative. We are not the ones who should make self-criticism.
> >Also, please do not attempt intimidation through the meaningless use of
> >capital letters.
> >
> >"UN ouster from Human Rts & Drug Commissions"
> >
> >Presumably this refers to the ouster of the United States from 
>commissions
> >of the UN. To have the U.S. on the HRC is a little like having Hitler on
> >the
> >board of the UJA. Its ouster, although partly due to the sharpening of
> >inter-imperialist contradictions, is a good thing. I do not see why it is
> >listed among the sins of Bush.
> >
> >  As for the other things Amiri Baraka lists, it is the duty of 
>progressive
> >activists to rally the people to struggle. In no way is it correct to 
>rely
> >on the Democrats to defend the people. If the Republicans are the butcher
> >he
> >says they are, the Democrats are the Judas goat that leads the people to
> >slaughter. It is the Democrats who are the immediate problem and it is 
>from
> >them that the masses must be won away.
> >
> >  The people are the real makers of history, not the bourgeoisie.
> >Revolutionaries must rely on the masses at all times. It is entirely 
>wrong
> >and anti-Marxist to rely on the bourgeoisie to lead the struggle against
> >reaction.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> >To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 5:38 PM
> >Subject: Fwd: Re: [poprogress] Protest/Rally against Racist Republicans
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Green Nader , even in the face of  vile acts of Bushwackers since you
> >all
> > > helped give them election, you all still refuse to make SELF 
>CRITICISM!!
> > >   Tax Robbery up to 4 TRILLION, CO2, ARSENIC  copouts, Artic Drilling
> >Right
> > > On, CHINA (Nader's line on China as warped as B2's; UN ouster from 
>Human
> >Rts
> > > & Drug Commissions, B2's refusal to deliberate on Chemical Weapons,
> >Ouster
> > > of  Natl Lawyers from grading of Judges; setting up of Law clerks of
> >Scalia
> > > and Thomas for next Extreme Ct ;  What does it take?
> > >        And now you want Franks in? What does it take??  AMIRI B
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1582
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-22 13:37:51
Subject:blackout protest/awareness
Message:

From: "Alaie, Roya" <alaiero@...>
To: "'RUGreens@yahoogroups.com'" <RUGreens@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [RUGreens] Digest Number 117
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:28:01 -0400



GLOBAL SOLSTICE EVENT - ROLL YOUR OWN BLACK OUT THE
FIRST DAY OF SUMMER -

JUNE 21, 2001 THURS EVE, 7-10pm worldwide, all time zones


In protest of George W. Bush's energy policies and
lack of emphasis on
efficiency, conservation and alternative fuels,
there will be a voluntary
rolling blackout on the first day of summer, June 21
at 7pm - 10pm in any
time zone (this will roll it across the planet).

It's a simple protest and a symbolic act. Turn out
your lights from 7pm-10pm
on June 21. Unplug whatever you can unplug in your
house. Light a candle to
the sungod, kiss and tell, make love, tell ghost
stories, do something
instead of watching television, have fun in the
dark.

Forward this email as widely as possible, to your
government representatives
and environmental contacts. Let them know we want
global education,
participation and funding in conservation,
efficiency and alternative fuel
efforts -- and an end to over exploitation and
misuse of the earth's
resources.
>



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1583
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-23 14:41:46
Subject:Fwd: job
Message:

>
>JOB OPENING IMMEDIATELY
>
>Tenant Organizer for Local 32BJ, SEIU
>
>Summer position (3 months), decent pay, arrangements negotiable
>
>Local 32BJ represents 70,000 cleaners, doormen, and other building
>maintenance staff in the tri-state area. We are currently looking for a
>full-time tenant organizer. Organizer would spend the summer working with
>tenants in a single large residential complex to win improvements in their
>housing conditions. People of color strongly encouraged to apply. 
>Experience
>not required.
>
>Send a message ASAP to Aaron Chappell at chappello@... or call
>212-388-3984.
>
>Amy Marchitto
>Labor Education Center
>Rutgers University
>732/932-8559
>lobelo@...
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1584
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-24 12:15:17
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: G.O.P. Senator Plans Shift, Giving Democrats Control
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....

Activists must point out and organize around contradictions amongst the ruling class. There are differences between Democrats and Republicans - Democrats and Republicans know there are differences, and we should not deny it. For those that say there are no difference between Democrats and Republicans this Senator is more progressive than you because you will argue it doesn't matter who controls the majority. The nation recognizes that there is a tremendous shake up because of this move, now Bush2 (& co.) can't fly his bills through and that helps the people.

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G.O.P. Senator Plans Shift, Giving Democrats Control


By ALISON MITCHELL

 

ASHINGTON, May 23 � Senator James M. Jeffords told aides today that
he planned to leave the Republican Party and become an independent,
a pivotal move that would vault Democrats into control of the
Senate and complicate President Bush's efforts to enact his
legislative agenda and win approval for judicial nominees.

 But with fellow Republicans begging him to reconsider, Mr.
Jeffords, a traditional New England liberal Republican in an
increasingly conservative party, put off his announcement until
Thursday and said he would deliver it in his home state, Vermont.
"I wanted to be with my Vermonters when I made the decision," he
said. "I want to go home to my people."

 Throughout a tumultuous day, Republicans huddled with Mr.
Jeffords, trying to convince him that he could accomplish his
objectives more effectively by staying in the party that controls
the White House. From the other side of the aisle, Senator John B.
Breaux, a Louisiana Democrat who has worked closely with Mr.
Jeffords, was also seen at his side.

 After 11 Republicans met with Mr. Jeffords for an hour late in the
afternoon, several expressed hope that he might not announce a
complete break with his party on Thursday.

 "I'd be surprised if he made an announcement tomorrow that he's
leaving the party," said Senator Chuck Hagel, Republican of
Nebraska. And Senator Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania,
said: "At the end of the meeting, I felt we were in the ballgame.
We've got a chance."

 But other Republicans said they considered it unlikely that Mr.
Jeffords would change his mind.

 The storm over a Jeffords defection eclipsed the Senate's passage
of the largest tax cuts in two decades and plunged the Capitol into
turmoil as the two parties began to prepare for a landmark shift in
power. "If this occurs, it's a historic shift," said Senator Robert
G. Torricelli, Democrat of New Jersey. "It's an enormous shift of
influence in the federal government."

 Senators in both parties said early in the day that they had been
told that Mr. Jeffords would vote with the Democrats on
organizational matters, a move that would end the 50-50 split that
left Republicans in control of the Senate through Vice President
Dick Cheney's tie-breaking vote. 

 Such a changeover would put the Democrats back in power for the
first time since 1994, except for a short time this year when Al
Gore was still vice president. Senator Tom Daschle of South Dakota
would become the majority leader.

 Aides in both parties said Democrats would become committee
chairmen under the power-sharing agreement struck this year, though
some Republicans insisted they could mount a filibuster against the
change in chairmen in a bid to retain power. Both sides agreed that
a resolution creating new committee ratios and assignments could
face a filibuster.

 "If you think we've had gridlock up until now, watch that one,"
said Mr. Specter, one of those trying to convince Mr. Jeffords to
reconsider.

 Democrats said privately that party leaders had promised Mr.
Jeffords the chairmanship of the Environment and Public Works
Committee and that Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the ranking
Democrat, had agreed to step aside. Mr. Reid, the Democratic whip,
has been courting Mr. Jeffords for weeks.

 Grim Republicans said that with Democrats in control of the
Senate, the tax cut might well turn out to be the legislative
highlight of Mr. Bush's first two years in office. "Right now, I
guess, President Bush will get his two primary objectives, the tax
cut and the education bill, and nothing else," said Senator Robert
F. Bennett, Republican of Utah. And Democrats said that if they
took the majority they would have far more power to block
conservative judges.

 "It would change the tone a lot and it would clearly change the
tone on the court," said Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. Democrat of
Delaware. Mr. Biden said Supreme Court nominations "would be a
different world."

 Senators in both parties noted that Mr. Daschle could put on the
floor measures that the Republicans had bottled up, like a bill to
regulate managed health care. Even with Mr. Jeffords's support, the
Democrats would have tenuous control of the Senate and would still
need 60 votes to break Republican filibusters.

 Mr. Jeffords has long had a history of bucking his party on social
issues. In 1994, he was the only Republican senator to co-sponsor
President Bill Clinton's proposed overhaul of the nation's health
care system. But he has also been a respected and productive
legislator as chairman of the Senate committee that deals with
health and education issues.

 This year he infuriated the Bush White House when he said he could
not support President Bush's full $1.6 trillion tax cut and sought
increased federal spending for education. His defection on the
budget, along with other centrists, forced Mr. Bush to scale back
the tax cut.

 Since then, Mr. Jeffords has suffered slights and there have been
whispers of retaliation. He was not invited to the White House when
a Vermont high school teacher was honored recently, and there was
talk that the White House could try to derail a dairy compact that
helps Vermont farmers and that Mr. Jeffords cherished.

 Several Republicans blamed Senator Trent Lott, the majority leader
from Mississippi, as well as White House aides, for being
heavy-handed and not recognizing that Mr. Jeffords could be pushed
to leave the Republican Party. 

 Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, who has suffered
ostracism by his party, named no names but said, "The lesson to the
K Street lobbyists and the Republican apparatchiks is, Don't
threaten people."

 Mr. Jeffords began the morning saying that he would leave the
Republican Party. Entering the Capitol just after 9 a.m., he said
he had made up his mind and, "it's not to say no" to the Democrats.

 But stricken Republicans representing the party's moderate wing
implored Mr. Jeffords to reconsider in two meetings today.

 Senator Olympia J. Snowe, Republican of Maine, said that moderates
told Mr. Jeffords that party leaders had agreed to create a
leadership position for a moderate so Mr. Jeffords could be assured
that those with his philosophy have "a legitimate voice in our
party."

 Mr. Lott said, "We're looking at all kinds of options." 

 Among the concessions that Republicans said were offered to Mr.
Jeffords were more federal money for education for the disabled as
well as a waiver that would allow him to continue as chairman of
the education committee beyond next year.

 Senator Richard G. Lugar, Republican of Indiana, described the
afternoon meeting with Mr. Jeffords as soul-searching. "He was
thinking very comprehensively," Mr. Lugar said, "about the effects
upon the country, the Senate, governance in this country, in
addition to his own agenda, his relationship with people whom he
would hurt in the process." He said Mr. Jeffords was also "probably
reflecting on 20 years of public life in which he has felt many
rebuffs and much disappointment."

 Senate experts said the frenzy surrounding Mr. Jeffords had little
precedent. The last time an independent held such sway in the
Senate was during the Eisenhower administration in 1953, when two
deaths left Democrats with 47 seats to the Republicans' 46. But the
Senate's one independent at the time, Wayne Morse of Oregon, a
former Republican, said he would vote with the Republicans if the
Democrats tried to take control. That would have allowed Vice
President Richard M. Nixon to cast the tie-breaking vote, keeping
Republicans in power.

 Senator Bennett said today that he had reminded Mr. Jeffords that
Mr. Morse had said he could not vote to reorganize the Senate under
the Democrats because he had been elected as a Republican.

 Asked if he thought Mr. Jeffords should take that history lesson,
Mr. Bennett said, "I hope so." 

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/24/politics/24JEFF.html?ex=991720917&ei=1&en=7dc8224c62e5632b

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1585
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-24 12:30:45
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: While a Restless Senator Stirred, the Bush Team May Have Slept
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....

No difference between Democrats and Republicans - come again? 

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\----------------------------------------------------------/

While a Restless Senator Stirred, the Bush Team May Have Slept


By FRANK BRUNI

Senator James M. Jeffords apparently got away from the Republican
party without anybody in the Bush administration noticing that he
was heading out the door.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/24/politics/24BUSH.html?ex=991721844&ei=1&en=85a17ab51c7dbf6a

/-----------------------------------------------------------------\


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updated throughout the day.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1586
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-24 16:50:30
Subject:reality points more and more 2 differences
Message:

more contradictions between democrats and republicans - in case evreyone 
didn't get a chance to see this article - it is from may 10.
as far as the message about the progressive united front, it should be 
clearly aimed at defeating the republicans.

GOP (Republicans) blocks Assembly Democrats' move to impeach Verniero

       Published online in the "real radical" Home News Tribune 5/10/01


               By JOHN P. McALPIN
               THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

TRENTON -- Assembly Republicans scuttled an attempt Thursday to force the 
impeachment of Supreme Court Justice Peter G. Verniero, angering some 
lawmakers who said they had a duty to hear the charges.

Democrats planned a showdown before the Assembly voting session, hoping to 
use house rules and call for a vote on an impeachment resolution.

Assemblyman William Payne, D-Essex, tried for a debate, but the Republican 
majority denied him by tabling the issue without comment. Democrats then 
took the floor one by one to denounce the move and plead for a vote.

"We can't just bury our heads in the sand," Payne said. "We must act to 
remove Mr. Verniero."

Several lawmakers cited a Senate Judiciary Committee report that said 
Verniero lied and withheld details about racial profiling.

"We cannot in good conscience ignore this record," said Assemblyman Joseph 
V. Doria, D-Hudson.

Assembly Speaker Jack Collins, R-Salem, allowed the Democrats to speak, 
saying it was clear they were passionate about the issue.

It was Collins who last month refused to consider impeachment, saying 
accusations that Verniero lied about racial profiling while attorney general 
would be better heard by the courts.

Before the session began about 200 demonstrators crowded the second-floor 
gallery, demanding that lawmakers appear. Several times the Assembly clerk 
asked for quiet, only to be answered with cheers, chants and handclaps.

Earlier Thursday, the mother of the man frisked by former Gov. Christie 
Whitman appeared at the Statehouse and demanded action on racial profiling.

"I'm just here to voice my opinion, to be heard, to lend my voice in the 
crusade against the evil of racial profiling," Debra Rolax said.

Sherron Rolax was the Camden teen pictured in a 1996 photograph that showed 
a smiling Whitman searching him. After The Associated Press published the 
photograph last year, Whitman, now head of the Environmental Protection 
Agency, admitted the search was a mistake.

Assemblyman Herbert Conaway, D-Burlington, said Debra Rolax was hoping her 
appearance would spur action on long-delayed reforms.

"She's here to say it's time to get moving," Conaway said. Debra Rolax 
repeatedly refused to say who invited her or why she chose to speak on 
Thursday.

Last week, Assembly Democrats introduced detailed articles of impeachment 
against Verniero.

Thirty-five Democrats support an impeachment resolution that charges 
Verniero with lying about racial profiling and withholding information from 
the U.S. Justice Department.

If six Republicans joined them, Democrats claimed they could force the 
Assembly to vote on impeachment, despite the fact that Collins refused to 
introduce such a measure. There are 80 members of the General Assembly.

Democrats said they hoped Republican senators, many of whom support 
impeachment already, would push Republican Assembly members to act. But the 
Democrats got no response to letters sent to Republican Assembly members 
requesting support.

Verniero has steadfastly refused to resign and maintains he testified 
truthfully at all times about racial profiling.

He was the first attorney general to admit to racial profiling. The 
admission came in a 1999 report, one year after two white troopers fired 11 
shots at four unarmed minority men -- wounding three -- during a traffic 
stop on the New Jersey Turnpike.

On April 5, acting Gov. Donald T. DiFrancesco said he believed Verniero 
misled senators when he was questioned about racial
profiling during his 1999 confirmation hearings. DiFrancesco said the 
justice should resign.

On the same day Democrats introduced the impeachment measure in the 
Assembly, the full Senate approved a resolution saying Verniero should 
resign.

The 16-page resolution, approved 37-1, claims Verniero withheld information 
from federal investigators and offered intentionally misleading answers 
during his Senate confirmation hearings.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1587
Sender:Richard Strong <rstrong@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-25 09:41:13
Subject:Re: [poprogress] reality points more and more 2 differences
Message:

It appears the Democrats are pulling at the bit,thumping their chests, and
making noise again thanks to the latest defection by Sen.James
Jeffords,who has a long record of voting independently proving he is/was 
more of an independent(third party) than republican. In fact he states
that he can do a better job for his constituantcy as an independent. This
also shows he made the decision from conscience and disapline rather than
party pressure or dogma. He used his own mind/line rather than someone
elses. Even if I disagree I find that admirable.
Now, let's see what the democrats do. Then we will see if there really is
a differance between them and the GOP.The ball is in their court. Pun
intended.


R.D. Strong
Rutgers University
NBCS-Hill Center Operations
e-mail : rstrong@...



On Thu, 24 May 2001, joseph smith wrote:

> more contradictions between democrats and republicans - in case evreyone 
> didn't get a chance to see this article - it is from may 10.
> as far as the message about the progressive united front, it should be 
> clearly aimed at defeating the republicans.
> 
> GOP (Republicans) blocks Assembly Democrats' move to impeach Verniero
> 
>        Published online in the "real radical" Home News Tribune 5/10/01
> 
> 
>                By JOHN P. McALPIN
>                THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
> 
> TRENTON -- Assembly Republicans scuttled an attempt Thursday to force the 
> impeachment of Supreme Court Justice Peter G. Verniero, angering some 
> lawmakers who said they had a duty to hear the charges.
> 
> Democrats planned a showdown before the Assembly voting session, hoping to 
> use house rules and call for a vote on an impeachment resolution.
> 
> Assemblyman William Payne, D-Essex, tried for a debate, but the Republican 
> majority denied him by tabling the issue without comment. Democrats then 
> took the floor one by one to denounce the move and plead for a vote.
> 
> "We can't just bury our heads in the sand," Payne said. "We must act to 
> remove Mr. Verniero."
> 
> Several lawmakers cited a Senate Judiciary Committee report that said 
> Verniero lied and withheld details about racial profiling.
> 
> "We cannot in good conscience ignore this record," said Assemblyman Joseph 
> V. Doria, D-Hudson.
> 
> Assembly Speaker Jack Collins, R-Salem, allowed the Democrats to speak, 
> saying it was clear they were passionate about the issue.
> 
> It was Collins who last month refused to consider impeachment, saying 
> accusations that Verniero lied about racial profiling while attorney general 
> would be better heard by the courts.
> 
> Before the session began about 200 demonstrators crowded the second-floor 
> gallery, demanding that lawmakers appear. Several times the Assembly clerk 
> asked for quiet, only to be answered with cheers, chants and handclaps.
> 
> Earlier Thursday, the mother of the man frisked by former Gov. Christie 
> Whitman appeared at the Statehouse and demanded action on racial profiling.
> 
> "I'm just here to voice my opinion, to be heard, to lend my voice in the 
> crusade against the evil of racial profiling," Debra Rolax said.
> 
> Sherron Rolax was the Camden teen pictured in a 1996 photograph that showed 
> a smiling Whitman searching him. After The Associated Press published the 
> photograph last year, Whitman, now head of the Environmental Protection 
> Agency, admitted the search was a mistake.
> 
> Assemblyman Herbert Conaway, D-Burlington, said Debra Rolax was hoping her 
> appearance would spur action on long-delayed reforms.
> 
> "She's here to say it's time to get moving," Conaway said. Debra Rolax 
> repeatedly refused to say who invited her or why she chose to speak on 
> Thursday.
> 
> Last week, Assembly Democrats introduced detailed articles of impeachment 
> against Verniero.
> 
> Thirty-five Democrats support an impeachment resolution that charges 
> Verniero with lying about racial profiling and withholding information from 
> the U.S. Justice Department.
> 
> If six Republicans joined them, Democrats claimed they could force the 
> Assembly to vote on impeachment, despite the fact that Collins refused to 
> introduce such a measure. There are 80 members of the General Assembly.
> 
> Democrats said they hoped Republican senators, many of whom support 
> impeachment already, would push Republican Assembly members to act. But the 
> Democrats got no response to letters sent to Republican Assembly members 
> requesting support.
> 
> Verniero has steadfastly refused to resign and maintains he testified 
> truthfully at all times about racial profiling.
> 
> He was the first attorney general to admit to racial profiling. The 
> admission came in a 1999 report, one year after two white troopers fired 11 
> shots at four unarmed minority men -- wounding three -- during a traffic 
> stop on the New Jersey Turnpike.
> 
> On April 5, acting Gov. Donald T. DiFrancesco said he believed Verniero 
> misled senators when he was questioned about racial
> profiling during his 1999 confirmation hearings. DiFrancesco said the 
> justice should resign.
> 
> On the same day Democrats introduced the impeachment measure in the 
> Assembly, the full Senate approved a resolution saying Verniero should 
> resign.
> 
> The 16-page resolution, approved 37-1, claims Verniero withheld information 
> from federal investigators and offered intentionally misleading answers 
> during his Senate confirmation hearings.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1588
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-25 12:41:33
Subject:Jeffords more progressive than Greens
Message:

to continue to deny contradictions amongst the ruling class will continue to 
hinder the progressive/independent movement. activists must embrace this 
attack on the republican party and immediate lead the charge to defend New 
Jersey.

A Question of Governing From the Right
Senator James M. Jeffords' decision to become an
independent is an example of the perils of President Bush's
strategy of governing from the right.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/25/politics/25ASSE.html

Peoples' War on the Right!
Organize to Bury Franks, build the Peoples' Temporary Alliance with McGreasy 
while promoting and advancing our revolutionary positions.

We must continue to organize the mass peoples' defensive of our communities 
and state while challenging on local levels in city elections. In 
state/national elections the strategy must be:
Attack Imperial Democrats - Waste Imperial Republicans!


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1589
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-26 04:03:28
Subject:2bright and skunk soaries next!!!!
Message:

now is the time to move on all local republicans!
who's streets?

curtis where you at?


    Jeffords Decision Has Ripple Effect

    By NANCY BENAC
    Associated Press Writer

    WASHINGTON (AP) � The ripples spread far beyond tiny Vermont.

    Sen. James Jeffords' decision to abandon the Republican Party,
expected to be announced Thursday in his home state, will create a
shift of congressional power that could affect everything from office space 
on Capitol Hill to oil drilling in Alaska's wilderness.

    Empty judgeships could remain empty a little longer. Phone
companies could find it harder to loosen federal regulation. President 
Bush's appointments, already slowed by the long-in-limbo election, could be 
further delayed.

    Republicans across the country could find it harder to pump up 
enthusiasm.

    ``This has a terribly demoralizing effect on the Republican grass 
roots,'' said GOP consultant Scott Reed. ``They will really scratch their 
heads and wonder why this happened.''

    Republican Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama had a more rosy theory on the 
political repercussions: ``This might galvanize the Republicans. This might 
help us in a year and a half.''

    Democrats, for their part, cast the turnover as a chance to tug the Bush 
administration toward the center � and closer to the American people.

    ``It will moderate things, obviously, which in my judgment is more where 
the American people are,'' said Sen. Herb Kohl, D-Wis. ``We are very much, I 
think, a nation somewhere in the center.''

    Jeffords told associates he planned to leave the GOP and become an 
independent aligned with the Democrats, according to sources familiar with 
the conversations.

    That would shift control of the Senate from 50-50, with Vice President 
Dick Cheney holding the tie-breaking vote for Republicans, to a 51-49 
Democratic majority, with dramatic consequences for Bush's ability to push 
through his agenda.

    ``Right now, I guess President Bush will get his two primary objectives, 
the tax cut and the education bill, and nothing else,'' said Sen. Robert 
Bennett, R-Utah.

    The tax bill should reach Bush's desk before Jeffords' switch takes 
effect; the education bill could cost more than the president had hoped.

    With a Democratic majority, control of every Senate committee would 
change hands. Republicans could have to hand over some of the most spacious 
offices. Legislative priorities could shift dramatically.

    Democrats would have new muscle to force consideration of legislation 
raising the minimum wage, creating prescription drug benefits, boosting 
school spending and buttressing environmental protection.

    ``We're not just talking about a singular moment,'' said Sen. Olympia 
Snowe, R-Maine ``It's staff, the country, the presidency.''

    The turnover, for example, could markedly change the tone of upcoming 
energy legislation, with more emphasis on conservation and renewable energy 
programs.

    Among the first casualties, said Senate Democratic sources, could be the 
push by the Bush administration for oil drilling in the Arctic National 
Wildlife Refuge, which already was in trouble.

    On another front, the shift could put a chill on efforts to ease 
regulation of major phone and media companies. South Carolina Sen. Ernest 
Hollings, who would take the helm of the Commerce Committee, is seen as more 
sympathetic to new companies trying to crack into the local phone business.

    Bush could find it more difficult to push through conservative nominees 
for some 100 empty federal judgeships around the country, and find it harder 
to fill any future vacancies on the Supreme Court.

    Asked how conservative nominees would fare before the Judiciary 
Committee he is expected to head, Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., said, ``I never 
predict how they're going to do until they have the hearing � if they have 
one.''

    Jeffords himself would come out of the turnover as a chairman of the 
Environment and Public Works Committee.

    Some Republicans found positive aspects to the expected shift.

    ``On the chessboard, your agenda can be advanced more with a president 
and a minority in the Senate,'' said Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, pointing to 
Bush's chance to use his veto power.

    One thing was clear: tiny Vermont, population 608,827 by the latest 
Census, will feel the impact.

    ``Vermont all of the sudden becomes one of the most powerful states in 
the union, with two U.S. senators that are committee chairmen,'' said Reed. 
``Little Vermont, with three electoral votes, will become the pork capital 
of the world.''

    ���
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1590
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-26 13:20:33
Subject:Re: [nbpc] 2bright and skunk soaries next!!!!
Message:

ADULTS SOMETIMES ARE TEMPTED TO SPEAK FALSELY TO PLEASE OTHERS.
MOST ADULTS VALUE A REPUTATION FOR TRUTHFULNESS.
AT TIMES ADULTS ARE FRIGHTENED TO HEAR THE TRUTH.
MOST ADULTS ADMIRE PEOPLE WHO DECLARE THE IN SPITE OF POTENTIALLY
NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1591
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-26 13:26:07
Subject:Re: [njfo] 2bright and skunk soaries next!!!!
Message:

SOME ADULTS STRUGGLE WITH CONFLICTING LOYALTIES.
SOME ADULTS LOOK FOR EVIDENCE THAT A HIGHER POWER IS AT WORK IN THE
WORLD.
MOST ADULTS WANT TO BE LOYAL TO THEIR COMMITMENTS.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1592
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-26 13:55:46
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] reality points more and more 2 differences
Message:

what is the green$/fabworld dodge now?

are the imperial dems&reps identical?

is organizing class struggle not objectively more difficult under rep 
regime?

can green$ reality win nj governor?

as we build the peoples' democratic workers' party, shd we not fence off the 
most fascist (republican) organization?

which side you on green$/fabworld?

peoples' war on the right.
cliff




>From: Richard Strong <rstrong@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, 
>rugreens@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] reality points more and more 2 differences
>Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:41:13 -0400 (EDT)
>
>
>It appears the Democrats are pulling at the bit,thumping their chests, and
>making noise again thanks to the latest defection by Sen.James
>Jeffords,who has a long record of voting independently proving he is/was
>more of an independent(third party) than republican. In fact he states
>that he can do a better job for his constituantcy as an independent. This
>also shows he made the decision from conscience and disapline rather than
>party pressure or dogma. He used his own mind/line rather than someone
>elses. Even if I disagree I find that admirable.
>Now, let's see what the democrats do. Then we will see if there really is
>a differance between them and the GOP.The ball is in their court. Pun
>intended.
>
>
>R.D. Strong
>Rutgers University
>NBCS-Hill Center Operations
>e-mail : rstrong@...
>
>
>
>On Thu, 24 May 2001, joseph smith wrote:
>
> > more contradictions between democrats and republicans - in case evreyone
> > didn't get a chance to see this article - it is from may 10.
> > as far as the message about the progressive united front, it should be
> > clearly aimed at defeating the republicans.
> >
> > GOP (Republicans) blocks Assembly Democrats' move to impeach Verniero
> >
> >        Published online in the "real radical" Home News Tribune 5/10/01
> >
> >
> >                By JOHN P. McALPIN
> >                THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
> >
> > TRENTON -- Assembly Republicans scuttled an attempt Thursday to force 
>the
> > impeachment of Supreme Court Justice Peter G. Verniero, angering some
> > lawmakers who said they had a duty to hear the charges.
> >
> > Democrats planned a showdown before the Assembly voting session, hoping 
>to
> > use house rules and call for a vote on an impeachment resolution.
> >
> > Assemblyman William Payne, D-Essex, tried for a debate, but the 
>Republican
> > majority denied him by tabling the issue without comment. Democrats then
> > took the floor one by one to denounce the move and plead for a vote.
> >
> > "We can't just bury our heads in the sand," Payne said. "We must act to
> > remove Mr. Verniero."
> >
> > Several lawmakers cited a Senate Judiciary Committee report that said
> > Verniero lied and withheld details about racial profiling.
> >
> > "We cannot in good conscience ignore this record," said Assemblyman 
>Joseph
> > V. Doria, D-Hudson.
> >
> > Assembly Speaker Jack Collins, R-Salem, allowed the Democrats to speak,
> > saying it was clear they were passionate about the issue.
> >
> > It was Collins who last month refused to consider impeachment, saying
> > accusations that Verniero lied about racial profiling while attorney 
>general
> > would be better heard by the courts.
> >
> > Before the session began about 200 demonstrators crowded the 
>second-floor
> > gallery, demanding that lawmakers appear. Several times the Assembly 
>clerk
> > asked for quiet, only to be answered with cheers, chants and handclaps.
> >
> > Earlier Thursday, the mother of the man frisked by former Gov. Christie
> > Whitman appeared at the Statehouse and demanded action on racial 
>profiling.
> >
> > "I'm just here to voice my opinion, to be heard, to lend my voice in the
> > crusade against the evil of racial profiling," Debra Rolax said.
> >
> > Sherron Rolax was the Camden teen pictured in a 1996 photograph that 
>showed
> > a smiling Whitman searching him. After The Associated Press published 
>the
> > photograph last year, Whitman, now head of the Environmental Protection
> > Agency, admitted the search was a mistake.
> >
> > Assemblyman Herbert Conaway, D-Burlington, said Debra Rolax was hoping 
>her
> > appearance would spur action on long-delayed reforms.
> >
> > "She's here to say it's time to get moving," Conaway said. Debra Rolax
> > repeatedly refused to say who invited her or why she chose to speak on
> > Thursday.
> >
> > Last week, Assembly Democrats introduced detailed articles of 
>impeachment
> > against Verniero.
> >
> > Thirty-five Democrats support an impeachment resolution that charges
> > Verniero with lying about racial profiling and withholding information 
>from
> > the U.S. Justice Department.
> >
> > If six Republicans joined them, Democrats claimed they could force the
> > Assembly to vote on impeachment, despite the fact that Collins refused 
>to
> > introduce such a measure. There are 80 members of the General Assembly.
> >
> > Democrats said they hoped Republican senators, many of whom support
> > impeachment already, would push Republican Assembly members to act. But 
>the
> > Democrats got no response to letters sent to Republican Assembly members
> > requesting support.
> >
> > Verniero has steadfastly refused to resign and maintains he testified
> > truthfully at all times about racial profiling.
> >
> > He was the first attorney general to admit to racial profiling. The
> > admission came in a 1999 report, one year after two white troopers fired 
>11
> > shots at four unarmed minority men -- wounding three -- during a traffic
> > stop on the New Jersey Turnpike.
> >
> > On April 5, acting Gov. Donald T. DiFrancesco said he believed Verniero
> > misled senators when he was questioned about racial
> > profiling during his 1999 confirmation hearings. DiFrancesco said the
> > justice should resign.
> >
> > On the same day Democrats introduced the impeachment measure in the
> > Assembly, the full Senate approved a resolution saying Verniero should
> > resign.
> >
> > The 16-page resolution, approved 37-1, claims Verniero withheld 
>information
> > from federal investigators and offered intentionally misleading answers
> > during his Senate confirmation hearings.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1593
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-26 14:00:52
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] reality points more and more 2 differences
Message:

MANY ADULTS STRUGGLE TO PERSEVERE IN THE FACE OF DIFFICULTY.
MOST ADULTS HOPE TO LEAVE A WORTHWHILE LEGACY.
SOME ADULTS SEE NO HOPE FOR THE FUTURE.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1594
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-26 14:36:46
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: Re: [poprogress] Protest/Rally against Racist Republicans
Message:

can we schedule to complete discussion asap, @ yr convenience?
holla.

cliff


>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: Re: [poprogress] Protest/Rally against Racist 
>Republicans
>Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 17:38:31 -0400
>
>
>
>Green Nader , even in the face of  vile acts of Bushwackers since you all
>helped give them election, you all still refuse to make SELF CRITICISM!!
>   Tax Robbery up to 4 TRILLION, CO2, ARSENIC  copouts, Artic Drilling 
>Right
>On, CHINA (Nader's line on China as warped as B2's; UN ouster from Human 
>Rts
>& Drug Commissions, B2's refusal to deliberate on Chemical Weapons, Ouster
>of  Natl Lawyers from grading of Judges; setting up of Law clerks of Scalia
>and Thomas for next Extreme Ct ;  What does it take?
>        And now you want Franks in? What does it take??  AMIRI B
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1595
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-27 11:30:07
Subject:Fwd: Cliff Smith bounced and banned
Message:



>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, "Cliff Smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Subject: Cliff Smith bounced and banned
>Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 15:15:23 -0400
>
>By popular demand Cliff Smith has been removed from the poprogress list. He 
>has resorted to abusive language against organizations and individuals 
>because they disagree with him. He has also spammed the list.
>
>I have known Cliff Smith for eight or nine years. He has repeatedly been 
>expelled from organizations for gross infractions of rules and conduct.
>
>He has personally offended several people on the poprogress list, myself 
>among them. Several have demanded that he be removed.
>
>Don't tell people that you were removed from poprogress because anyone 
>could not stand up to your brand of "ideological struggle," Cliff.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1596
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-27 12:02:26
Subject:Fwd: Re: [poprogress] Cliff Smith bounced and banned
Message:

--- In poprogress@y..., "David Hungerford" <dbh@i...> wrote:
Since you ask, Joe:

There is no other organization anywhere that could instruct you better 
on
the questions that you raise than POP. Friends in POP have given you 
the
benefit of their experience and thought. Money could not buy what they 
have
offered you. And how have you received it?

You have spurned everything said to you. I do not think you have shown 
any
real grasp of the distinction between bourgeois reformism, the line 
you
espouse, and working class ideas. I am reluctant to go much further 
with you
until you show some willingness to listen to what somebody - and there 
have
been a lot of people - says to you.

I don't know what's wrong with Cliff. I feel bad for him. Communists 
say the
struggle comes first, the self comes second. Some people want to be
Communists but get it in the wrong order. That isn't good. On the 
other
hand, Cliff says the self comes nowhere. That is even worse, as his 
example
proves. Maybe some day he will come to terms with himself. I hope so. 
I
don't know what else to say.

Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
To: <poprogress@y...>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [poprogress] Cliff Smith bounced and banned


> now then, what about the arguement at hand, hungerford/green'ers?
>
> joe
>
>
> >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@i...>
> >Reply-To: poprogress@y...
> >To: <poprogress@y...>, "Cliff Smith"
<cliffsmith69@h...>
> >Subject: [poprogress] Cliff Smith bounced and banned
> >Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 15:15:23 -0400
> >
> >By popular demand Cliff Smith has been removed from the poprogress 
list.
He
> >has resorted to abusive language against organizations and 
individuals
> >because they disagree with him. He has also spammed the list.
> >
> >I have known Cliff Smith for eight or nine years. He has repeatedly 
been
> >expelled from organizations for gross infractions of rules and 
conduct.
> >
> >He has personally offended several people on the poprogress list, 
myself
> >among them. Several have demanded that he be removed.
> >
> >Don't tell people that you were removed from poprogress because 
anyone
> >could not stand up to your brand of "ideological struggle," Cliff.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--- End forwarded message ---








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1597
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-27 12:34:06
Subject:Fwd: 2 different proposed nj summits on profiling/abuse
Message:

--- In coalitionforjustice@y..., can_bush@h... wrote:
#1--from starledger 24may, p27:

"Saying it is time to heal the wounds of racial profiling, acting
Gov. 
Donald DiFransesco yesterday announced plans for a statewide 
anti-profiling summit and creation of an Instituteon Policing at 
Rutgers University to help "repair the rift" between law enforcement 
and minorities.

"Plans call for the summit to be held in September, possibly in 
Atlantic City, according to Attorney General John FarmerJr., whose 
office will organize the event.  It will involve police, civil rights 
activists and community leaders...

"The Rev. Reginald Jackson, executive director of the Black Ministers 
Council of New Jersey...add(ed)it was the ministers group that 
proposed the idea of the summit to Farmer last month(!)."


#2--from my summary of the cfj platform committee meeting, 15apr, nb 
(posted on cfj site & submitted at cfj general meetings 21apr, and 
5may, trenton):

                 "8. that after the march we must meet immediately to 
assess our successes & failures, criticize our errors, and learn 
lessons to build on.  we should seek to unite our forces with all 
progressive forces in nj toward building a broad, democratic,
peoples' 
united front to fight all social problems toward building a peoples' 
democratic workers' party.  

                    And finally, that we should plan to hold a 
conference/summit in the fall, before the election, to develop and 
advance our organization.

                 we welcome all criticisms, suggestions, concerns, 
&tc. toward this.

                 defeat racist/sexist profiling & police abuse!

                 cliff smith
                 platform committee
                 732.214.8828
                 cliffsmith69@h..."

see you friday in trenton.
--- End forwarded message ---








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1598
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-27 12:44:08
Subject:some nb demographics
Message:

total population:   48,573
total hispanics:    18,947
total mexican:      38.9% of total hispanics
total puerto rican: 16.8% of total hispanics

households:         13,057
w/ children:         4,576
single mothers:      1,306

cs







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1599
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-27 22:34:38
Subject:fortune cookies bounced and banned
Message:

in response to hungerford (below)-

i have spurned nothing but the positions that deny the conditions we live 
in. the contradictions amongst the ruling class seem to be understood by the 
common folk better than they are understood by you "genuine intellectuals".

jeffords is more progressive than the greens and hungerford. they would
argue that he might as well stay republican because there is no difference 
if the democrats lead the positions. reality will POP that little bubble 
many of you climbed into when you began denying contradictions between 
democrats and republicans. the people are not as foolish as yourselves, that 
is why gore won the popular vote, but such a fool's error by the greens in 
NJ governor's race could have the republican receive the majority vote.

you are not progressive in any way by putting republicans into office.
no revolutionary will be backing greens, just fools that deny reality.
communists will be voting greasy, with the people, in order to bury franks. 
greens know they can't win, they openly admit it - led by jfort that "we 
have no illusion that we can win". post 1674 - i think - paragraph 2 
sentence 1

joe


 >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> >Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
 >To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>
 >Subject: Re: [poprogress] Cliff Smith bounced and banned
 >Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 19:21:52 -0400
 >
> >Since you ask, Joe:
There is no other organization anywhere that could instruct you better on 
the questions that you raise than POP. Friends in POP have given you the 
benefit of their experience and thought. Money could not buy what they have 
offered you. And how have you received it?

You have spurned everything said to you. I do not think you have shown any 
real grasp of the distinction between bourgeois reformism, the line you 
espouse, and working class ideas. I am reluctant to go much further with you 
until you show some willingness to listen to what somebody - and there have 
been a lot of people - says to you.

I don't know what's wrong with Cliff. I feel bad for him. Communists say the 
struggle comes first, the self comes second. Some people want to be 
Communists but get it in the wrong order. That isn't good. On the other 
hand, Cliff says the self comes nowhere. That is even worse, as his example 
proves. Maybe some day he will come to terms with himself. I hope so. I 
don't know what else to say.

Dave


> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> >To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 6:42 PM
> >Subject: Re: [poprogress] Cliff Smith bounced and banned
> >
> >
> > > now then, what about the arguement at hand, hungerford/green'ers?
> > >
> > > joe
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> > > >Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, "Cliff Smith"
> ><cliffsmith69@...>
> > > >Subject: [poprogress] Cliff Smith bounced and banned
> > > >Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 15:15:23 -0400
> > > >
> > > >By popular demand Cliff Smith has been removed from the poprogress
> >list.
> >He
> > > >has resorted to abusive language against organizations and 
>individuals
> > > >because they disagree with him. He has also spammed the list.
> > > >
> > > >I have known Cliff Smith for eight or nine years. He has repeatedly
> >been
> > > >expelled from organizations for gross infractions of rules and 
>conduct.
> > > >
> > > >He has personally offended several people on the poprogress list,
> >myself
> > > >among them. Several have demanded that he be removed.
> > > >
> > > >Don't tell people that you were removed from poprogress because 
>anyone
> > > >could not stand up to your brand of "ideological struggle," Cliff.
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1600
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-27 22:36:04
Subject:You're gone, Joe
Message:



>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [poprogress] You're gone, Joe
>Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 22:01:06 -0400
>
>This is a clever tactic you have taken, Joe. You say things personally 
>offensive to me to try to hide the facts that:
>
>1. you violate simple rules that have been stated clearly to you;
>
>2. you have taken one of the worst political ass-kickings ever seen in your 
>opportunist attempt to deliver progressive people to the Democrats.
>
>But forget all that. You relayed a message from Cliff after he had been 
>thrown off this list for doing things that no one could defend or excuse. 
>You have turned into a saboteur.
>
>If you think you have been wronged, see if you can get someone to invite 
>you to a POP meeting to state your case. I won't ask you myself because I 
>don't want to get everyone mad at me.
>
>Joe Smith is hereby removed from the list.
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1601
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-28 16:49:47
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: Communists Win Cyprus Elections
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....

they did it by joining republicans??

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Communists Win Cyprus Elections


By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

 

Filed at 11:57 a.m. ET



NICOSIA, Cyprus (AP) -- For the first time since the end of British
rule, a Cyprus communist party on Monday won parliamentary
elections in the Greek Cypriot portion of the Mediterranean island.

Official results gave the party, called AKEL, 34.7 percent of the
vote compared to 34.1 percent received by the Democratic Rally,
President Glafcos Clerides' party.

It was the communists' first victory in parliamentary elections
since British colonial rule ended in 1960. In previous elections,
AKEL, the Greek acronym for the Reformist Party of the Working
People, had been averaging a third of the vote.

AKEL's slight edge was expected to give it one more than the 19
seats it had in the previous parliament, while the Rally would lose
one of its 20 seats. The chamber has 56 seats.

The centrist Democratic Union party polled 14.8 percent of the
vote, winning nine seats, followed by the socialist KISOS-EDEK with
6.5 percent and four seats. Four smaller parties won one seat each.

Despite ideological differences, both major parties support the
entry of Cyprus into the European Union. The new parliament will
have the task of approving the necessary legislation to make
membership possible by 2003.

In Greece, Foreign Ministry spokesman Panos Beglitis said the new
parliament will speed up Cyprus' integration into the EU.

The communist party's gains will have little effect on the
remaining two years of Clerides' second and final five-year term.

Cyprus' government is run by a directly elected president. The
parliament reviews the government's policies, but generally is too
fragmented to block the president's agenda and impose its own.

``We congratulate AKEL for its narrow victory,'' Nicos
Anastasiades, the Rally's president, conceded soon after midnight
with just over half the votes counted.

The election was restricted to the southern Greek
Cypriot-controlled part of the island. The north has been under
Turkish occupation since 1974. 

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Cyprus-Election.html?ex=992082987&ei=1&en=dba25d2cf93d1a22

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most authoritative news coverage on the Web,
updated throughout the day.

Become a member today! It's free!

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Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1602
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-28 14:05:49
Subject:Fwd: rally pics
Message:

attached are some photos of the may 16th rally at the trenton statehouse.

next meeting for the coalition for justice is june 1 - this friday at 6:00pm 
in trenton. every organization should provide a delegation to the meeting, 
rides can be arranged easy enough.

racist republicans you can't hide, we charge you with genocide!

joe
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

  ----------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1603
Sender:citruswar@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-28 21:36:49
Subject:Re: [nbpc] 2bright and skunk soaries next!!!!
Message:

Tracy Ford!

So that there is no mistake this message is coming from Curtis L. Warren.  I really am tired of people putting down my pastor.  If you want to call him a skunk and be a man about it, I'll arrange for you to come to his office and you can express your feelings there.  Now if the outcome is that you get beat to the ground, besides being intellectually being embarrassed, oh well!  For someone who is supposed to be a man of God, you speak more as a man of the world!  Watch your face and your back!

This is Curtis L.






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1604
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-29 00:26:26
Subject:Re: [nbpc] 2bright and skunk soaries next!!!!
Message:

JOE AND CLIFF SMITH CALL YOUR PASTOR A SKUNK. I DEFEND HIM AND NEVER
SPEAK ILL OF A PASTOR, ESPECIALLY A REPUBLICAN ONE.
YOU THREAT ME WITH BODILY HARM AND SUPPOSE A CHILD OF GOD. GOD WILL
FIGHT MY BATTLE FOR ME

TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1605
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-29 08:43:09
Subject:DECISION YOU MAKE TODAY DETERMINES WHAT GOD DOES FOR YOU TOMORROW
Message:

CURTIS L. WARREN!!!
THE LIGHT WHICH GOD GIVES US.
THE LIGHT OF TRUTH, WHERE IT MAY LEAD.
THE LIGHT OF FREEDOM, REVEALING NEW OPPORTUNITIES FOR INDIVIDUAL
DEVELOPMENT AND SOCIAL SERVICE.
THE LIGHT OF FAITH, OPENING NEW VISIONS OF THE BETTER WORLD TO BE.
THE LIGHT OF LOVE, DAILY BINDING BROTHER TO BROTHER AND MAN TO GOD IN
EVER CLOSER BONDS OF FRIENDSHIP AFFECTION.
GUIDED BY THIS LIGHT OF GOD.
WE SHALL GO FORWARD TO THE WORK OF GOD WITH STEADFASTNESS AND
CONFIDENCE.
TRACY FORD







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1606
Sender:"Anna Louise Wargo" <love_not_fear@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-29 13:40:17
Subject:Voluntary Blackout!
Message:

Greetings from Anna...

A creative way to celebrate summer solstice...
Pass it on!


YOUR OWN BLACK OUT THE FIRST DAY OF SUMMER
JUNE 21, 2001 THURS EVE,  7-10 pm worldwide, all time zones

As an alternative to George W. Bush's energy policies and lack of
emphasis on efficiency, conservation and alternative fuels, there will
be a voluntary rolling blackout on the first day of summer, June 21
at 7pm - 10pm in any time zone (this will roll it across the planet).

Its a simple protest and a symbolic act. Turn out your lights from 7
pm-10pm on June 21. Unplug whatever you can unplug in your
house.

Light a candle to the Sungoddess, kiss and tell or not, take a stroll
in the dark, invent ghost stories, anything that's not electronic -
have fun in the dark.

Read the 1999 book "Natural Capitalism" by Hawken and Lovins to
learn that conservation/high efficiency technologies already ARE
on-the-shelf. If implemented these revolutionary ideas would pay
themselves off within five years, after which we'd be pumping far
less greenhouse gas into the atmosphere and saving bucks to boot.

Forward this email as widely as possible, to your  government
representatives and environmental contacts.

Let them know we want global education, participation and funding
in conservation, efficiency and alternative fuel efforts-and an end to
over-exploitation and misuse of the earth's resources.

Anyone knows that the Cheney-Bush team is blowing smoke when
they tell us that "... conservation can't help, it'll just be too
expensive to implement those technologies..." While on the other hand, 
technology to develop and deploy weapons to blow incoming ICBMs out of 
the sky are easy to come by.

Rosalind Renfrew, PhD dissertator
Department of Wildlife Ecology
University of Wisconsin - Madison
1630 Linden Drive
Madison, WI 53706
608-263-7595







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1607
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-05-29 16:04:48
Subject:Re: [NB_CC_TF] Fwd: rally pics
Message:

I CHARGE BOL/SWORD WITH BEING GOOD FASCISTS



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1608
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-29 18:12:51
Subject:Re: [nbpc] 2bright and skunk soaries next!!!!
Message:

shut up curtis. soaries is an agent of white supremacy being led by the 
republican party. the whole city knows he's a sellout skunk-

how bout now njfo/nbpc? can we criticize curtis, or do you all still claim 
"working class leader"?

joe


>From: citruswar@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] 2bright and skunk soaries next!!!!
>Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:36:49 EDT
>
>Tracy Ford!
>
>So that there is no mistake this message is coming from Curtis L. Warren.  
>I really am tired of people putting down my pastor.  If you want to call 
>him a skunk and be a man about it, I'll arrange for you to come to his 
>office and you can express your feelings there.  Now if the outcome is that 
>you get beat to the ground, besides being intellectually being embarrassed, 
>oh well!  For someone who is supposed to be a man of God, you speak more as 
>a man of the world!  Watch your face and your back!
>
>This is Curtis L.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1609
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-29 18:45:08
Subject:Re: You're gone, Joe
Message:



>From: Amirib@...
>To: can_bush@...
>Subject: Re: You're gone, Joe
>Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:44:10 EDT
>
>HUNGERFORD
>
>        YOU "DELIVER THEM TO THE NATIONAL CHAUVINIST PETTY BOURGEOISIE FOR 
>THE REPUBLICANS AND MUCH FURTHER RIGHT.' , AND APPARENTLY WILL NOT EVEN 
>STRUGGLE ABOUT IT.!
BY THE WAY, FOR THE SAKE OF OTHER  LAZY   ARROGANT CHAUVINIST  SOI
DISANT "INTELLECTUAL" "TAO TZU" IS THE NAME OF THE ANCIENT CHINESE " BOOK OF 
CHANGES", FROM WHICH FORTUNES WERE TOLD BY THROWING YARROW STICKS OR COINS. 
WHEN i SD THE MARKET IS MOVING FROM DOW JONES TO TAO TZU, IT WAS, LIKE THEY 
SAY , A PUN. . I THOUGHT YOU HAD SOME GENERAL UNDERSTANDING OF SHAKESPEAREAN 
USE OF LANGUAGE. ALAS! AND YOU AN AMERICAN. I GUESS THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE 
DISDAINED TO LEARN ABOUT ASIAN CULTURE.
   YOU SHD SPEND MORE TIME WITH MLM THAN FEUDALIST FANTASIES ABOUT THE
ENGLISH "SWASHBUCKLERS" RULE OF THE SEVEN SEAS.. YOU KNOW THOSE ARE THE
PEOPLE WHO FLEW THE SKULL AND CROSSBONES AND CALLED THEMSELVES "PRIVATEERS"! 
OR DOES IT MATTER?  AMIRI B

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1610
Sender:Mathew Levi <ml@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-29 19:31:52
Subject:Re: [nbpc] 2bright and skunk soaries next!!!!
Message:

LOL!

We're down to the 7th grade level ... from...   The 8th or 9th grade, at
most, I suppose.


> shut up curtis. soaries is an agent of white supremacy being led by the
> republican party. the whole city knows he's a sellout skunk-
>
> how bout now njfo/nbpc? can we criticize curtis, or do you all still claim
> "working class leader"?
>
> joe
>
>
> >From: citruswar@...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] 2bright and skunk soaries next!!!!
> >Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:36:49 EDT
> >
> >Tracy Ford!
> >
> >So that there is no mistake this message is coming from Curtis L. Warren.
> >I really am tired of people putting down my pastor.  If you want to call
> >him a skunk and be a man about it, I'll arrange for you to come to his
> >office and you can express your feelings there.  Now if the outcome is
that
> >you get beat to the ground, besides being intellectually being
embarrassed,
> >oh well!  For someone who is supposed to be a man of God, you speak more
as
> >a man of the world!  Watch your face and your back!
> >
> >This is Curtis L.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1611
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-05-31 20:35:14
Subject:Dinner! or just e-mail?
Message:

Invitation for dinner discussion to NBPC and all progressives-

In an effort to develop united strategies for city, county, and statewide 
efforts to promote peoples' democracy the Student/Worker Organization for 
Revolutionary Democracy is organizing a dinner discussion for this Sunday 
4:00pm at 211 Redomond Street.

Topics include, but are not limited to:

- McGreasy's campaign for governor: SWORD has been working to develop a 
Middlesex County Voter Registration Coalition. The need to bury Franks is 
our objective and the people must be organized to this call. We must work to 
force Greasy to publicly embrace revolutionary efforts.

- NB City Councilman Egan and his anti-women anti-working class positions. 
SWORD has been in contact with people throughout the county and developed on 
the need for an oppisition to Egan.

- Committee to Defeat Racist Profiling & Police Brutality is actively 
organizing revolutionary analysis to these conditions Statewide. The 
Committee is continuing to actively organize with the Coalition for Justice 
in order to develop the current NJ united front. Next coalition meeting is 
Friday at 6:00pm in Trenton - njfo should send a delegation to this meeting 
to unite and advance the revolutionary aspects of this coalition.

- 2002 NB elections: Mayor, 2 City Council seats, School Board question. 
SWORD has initiated discussion with prospects for City Council and will be 
working on embracing candidates that will ebrace/promote open revolutionary 
analysis to the conditions affecting us in NB.

- July 1 is the 10 year anniversery of the murder of Shaun Potts by NBPD 
officer Zane Gray. SWORD will be organizing a July 4 event to Defeat Racist 
Profiling & Police Brutality which will encompass countering the klan rally 
in Morristown while commemorating Potts. SWORD will be active throughout the 
community to promote this event which will include a rally in Feaster Park 
with at least one Confederate Flag burning.

i will be cooking, along with others, but any dishes are welcome.

any questions call 729-0390 or e-mail can_bush@... -joe
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1612
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-02 12:33:21
Subject:Fwd: [coalitionforjustice] New Jersey and the Nazis
Message:



>From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: <coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com>, <poprogress@egroups.com>
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] New Jersey and the Nazis
>Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 01:07:14 -0400
>
>New Jersey and the Nazis    From www.afrocubaweb.com/assata4.htm. Also clik 
>on the hyperlinks within the article for more detail on related stuff re 
>Black Holocaust in Germany and Assata Shakur bio since 1973. Thanks to Bro. 
>Strong for this. If we grow up we should be more like him.
>
>
>
>
>
>New Jersey and the Nazis
>by Hans Wolff, August, 1998
>
>There have been persistent reports of a Nazi subculture in the New Jersey 
>State Police, which has long had a reputation for violence and racism. 
>Recently, the State Police was the subject of a review article in the New 
>York Times, which cited years of allegations and a landmark court ruling 
>concerning their racist bias in stopping Black and Latino motorists.[1]
>
>When the Black Liberation Army leader Assata Shakur was captured and shot 
>in the back with her hands up by New Jersey troopers in 1973, she was under 
>their guard for several days, as she writes in Assata: an Autobiography 
>[2]:
>
>   "When they changed shift, the two troopers would salute the sergeant. 
>Some saluted an army salute, but others saluted like the Nazis did in 
>Germany. They held their hands in front of them and clicked their heels. I 
>couldn't believe it. One day one of them came in and gave me a speech about 
>how he fought in World War II on the wrong side. He went on and on and 
>there was no question that he believed everything he said.... Every day he 
>gave me a speech about nazism. Sometimes other nazis would join in. I asked 
>him if there were a lot of nazis in the state troopers, but he just laughed 
>and kept on talking.
>
>   ... I later learned that the state troopers in new jersey was started by 
>a German, that their uniforms were patterned after some type of German 
>uniform (very similar to the uniforms South African police wear), that they 
>are notorious for stopping Black, Hispanic, and long-haired people on the 
>turnpike and beating, harassing, and arresting them.
>
>   The nazis headed the harassment campaign against me. They spit in my 
>food and turned down the thermostat in the room until it was freezing. For 
>a while their campaign centered on keeping me from sleeping. They stamped 
>their feet on the floor, sang songs all night, played with their guns, 
>shouted, etc."[2]
>
>What lies behind this grotesque experience whose details, including the 
>songs, reveal a certain authenticity? Let's take a look.
>
>
>Norman Schwarzkopf, Senior
>
>The New Jersey State Police was founded in 1921 by Colonel Norman 
>Schwarzkopf, Sr., who served in both world wars and was father to General 
>Norman Schwarzkopf of Gulf War fame. While General Shalikashvili, the 
>outgoing US Chief of Staff, is proud of his Wafen SS father, the 
>Schwarzkopfs emmigrated to the US long before the rise of Nazism, are not 
>known to have voiced Nazi leanings, and were a respected part of the 
>substantial German-American community in New Jersey.
>
>However, an important segment of the New Jersey Germans were pro-Nazi 
>before the war and also gave safe haven to Nazis after the war. As we will 
>see, these Nazis also included many Eastern Europeans and Russians, 
>including the elite and largely White Russian SS VorKommando Moskau, which 
>organized the killings of Jews and Slavs in Nazi occupied Eastern Europe 
>and Russia. Many members of the VorKommando Moskau were resettled in New 
>Jersey by the US Government, shepherded by such stellar figures as Richard 
>Nixon and J. Edgar Hoover, who considered these people to be stalwart 
>anti-communist warriors and outstanding Republican vote getters. [3]
>
>Back to Schwarzkopf: he was the founder and the first superintendent of the 
>N.J. State Police, and played a key role in the Lindbergh kidnapping 
>investigation and the Hauptmann trial. A West Point graduate and WWI 
>veteran, he organized the State Police right after WWI. He returned to 
>military service in WWII, rising to the rank of Brigadier General. Later he 
>served abroad and organized the police force of Iran, then an ally of the 
>U.S. There his son, Norman Jr., formed his first impressions of the Middle 
>East.
>
>The police Schwarzkopf Sr. organized in Iran was the dreaded SAVAK, the 
>Shah's brutal secret police who tortured and murdered with a free hand. A 
>recent book, "Lifting the Veil: Life in Revolutionary Iran" by John Simpson 
>& Tira Shubart [4], describes Schwarzkopf"s role in Iran:
>
>   'I owe my throne to God, my people, my army --and to you!' The Shah was 
>speaking to Kermit Roosevelt, the Central Intelligence Agency 
>representative in Tehran. ... he certainly owed his throne to the success 
>of Operation AJAX on 19 August 1953.
>
>   Faced with a powerful constitutional threat from his prime minister and 
>political enemy, Dr Mohammed Mossadeq, the Shah briefly lost his nerve and 
>fled the country when the soldiers sent to arrest his prime minister were 
>overpowered and captured.
>
>Kermit Roosevelt's book (Countercoup: The Struggle for the Control of Iran, 
>reissued in 1979 [5]), together with recently declassified documents, have 
>revealed further details about the coup. Using money that had been brought 
>into Iran a few months earlier by General Norman Schwarzkopf, Senior, the 
>father of the American commander in the Gulf War, Roosevelt set about 
>buying the support he needed. Bribing the key officers in the police and 
>army, and organizing partisan crowds from the bazaar with the help of 
>British intelligence agents, he instructed them to attack mosques and pull 
>down statues of the Shah while shouting slogans in support of Mossadeq.
>
>   Two weeks later, Roosevelt used the same crowd of soldiers and bazaaris 
>to demonstrate their revulsion against such 'communist' action. Obediently, 
>they demanded Mossadeq's overthrow and chanted slogans in favour of the 
>Shah. Meanwhile the Imperial guards attacked the prime minister's house, 
>killing around three hundred of his supporters.
>
>   General Zahedi, who had been chosen by the Americans and the British to 
>take over from Mossadeq as prime minister, waited in the safety of the 
>American Embassy until the fighting ended. Then he made a suitably 
>triumphant appearance on a Sherman tank. The Shah, his courage and his 
>throne restored, flew back to Tehran to crowds of thousands of cheering 
>demonstrators. It was one of the most cost-efficient operations the United 
>States ever conducted in Iran: a mere $100,000 was needed to bribe the 
>crowd and the security forces, and the remainder of the million dollars 
>which General Schwarzkopf had brought into the country was not required." 
>[4]
>
>First Shwarzkopf Sr. acted as bag man to help overthrow the elected 
>government, then he trained the re-installed despots' secret police, the 
>SAVAK.  His memory is revered among New Jersey state troopers and his son 
>continues to come celebrate anniversaries of the organization's founding.
>
>
>The German community in New Jersey
>
>The Schwarzkopfs, whose name literally means "black head" in German, were 
>part of a German community that was already thriving in 1920s New Jersey 
>and continues to do so today. There are no fewer than 33 German cultural 
>clubs listed in New Jersey in Cynthia's Zorn's comprehensive web site: 
>http://mars.superlink.net/czorn. Some of the clubs go back to the 20's.
>
>In the years prior to World War II, when Nazism was on the rise, the New 
>York - New Jersey area had a strong pro-Nazi organization called the German 
>American Bund. They had a camp in northern New Jersey which was the scene 
>of some large rallies:
>
>  "In 1937, the German-American Bund Auxiliary purchased approximately 200 
>acres and several buildings near Lake Iliff in Andover Township. On July 
>18, 1937, Camp Nordland opened with a parade of 500 "bundists" and a beer 
>blast consisting of kegs of predominately German beer. The camp received 
>the immediate attention and opposition of local farmers, the Anti-Nazi 
>League, and local law enforcement.
>
>   One of several metropolitan area facilities, the Camp's purpose was to 
>cultivate the political loyalty of German-Americans in light of the ongoing 
>events in Germany and in the rest of Europe in the days leading to World 
>War II. An estimated 1000 German-American residents from New York City and 
>surrounding areas arrived at Nordland every weekend to participate in 
>political rallies, speeches, and German fun.
>
>   One particularly noteworthy event held at Camp Nordland was an 
>"Americanism" rally, allegedly conducted in conjunction with the Ku Klux 
>Klan, that attracted an estimated crowd of 50,000 persons. Although the KKK 
>publicly stressed their opposition to movements of an alien origin, they 
>could not resist the temptation of sharing in the purse of this well 
>attended event." [6]
>
>This New Jersey propensity towards supporting the Nazi cause continues 
>today. We have the recent case of Hans Schmidt who was arrested by the 
>German police for Nazi propaganda. The Hans Schmidt Defense Committee is 
>listed in Green Brook, New Jersey. [7] New Jersey continues to harbor both 
>Nazi and Klan meetings while in New Jersey jails, the Aryan Brotherhood and 
>the Aryan Sisterhood have the run of various facilities. If a prisonner is 
>a problem, prison authorities can easily shunt him or her to cell blocks 
>controlled by these organizations and appropriate measures will be taken...
>
>
>Standard Oil of New Jersey: Exxon�s role in the rise of Nazism
>
>Standard Oil of New Jersey, which later renamed itself Esso, then Exxon, 
>was a major player in the foreign support of Nazi Germany from the 30's all 
>the way into 1942. [8]
>
>At the eve of World War II, the major stockholder in Standard Oil after the 
>Rockerfellers was I.G. Farben, the German chemical combine, a major 
>financial backer of Hitler and heavily involved in using slave labor from 
>the concentration camps. This investment was part of a pattern of 
>reciprocal investments between the US and Germany during the Nazi years, in 
>the midst of the Great Depression. Germany was viewed as a hot investment 
>area.
>
>One area of support Standard Oil provided was in tetraethyl lead, which was 
>used in aviation gasoline. The Nazi air force "couldn't fly without it. 
>"Only Standard, Du Pont, and General Motors had rights to it." Walter C. 
>Teagle, president of Standard Oil of New Jersey (the largest petroleum 
>corporation in the world in 1941), "helped to organize a sale of the 
>precious substance" in 1938, 500 tons, from Ethyl, a British Standard 
>subsidiary, to Hermann Schmitz of I.G. Farben, a large German chemical firm 
>and major financial backer of Hitler. Then in 1939, "Schmitz and his 
>partners returned to London and obtained $15 million worth." [9]
>
>After the war started in Europe and the British were angry about U.S. 
>shipments to Nazi Germany, Standard Oil "changed the registration of the 
>entire fleet to Panamanian to avoid British seizure or search. His vessels 
>carried oil to Tenerife in the Canary Islands, where they refueled and 
>siphoned oil to German tankers for shipment to Hamburg." [10]
>
>On March 31, 1941, "the State Department stepped into the picture with a 
>detailed report on refueling stations in Mexico and Central and South 
>America that were suspected of furnishing oil to Italian or German merchant 
>vessels now in port. Among those fueling enemy ships were Standard Oil of 
>New Jersey and California. There is no record of any action being taken on 
>this matter." [11]
>
>We need more information on Standard Oil's role in New Jersey and how that 
>developed over time. An international company, New Jersey was their back 
>yard and Standard Oil execs could well have been among the good Republicans 
>who were involved in bringing the Nazis in after World War II. In fact, 
>Nelson Rockefeller was heavily involved in getting Nazis to freedom and 
>covering up their escape after World War II. [12]
>
>Standard Oil New Jersey participated in many quite complex schemes to aid 
>and abet the enemy during World War II, of which we can only offer a 
>limited glimpse here.
>
>
>The Republicans bring the Nazis to the US
>
>Allen Dulles was attorney for Standard Oil and IG Farben as well as for a 
>number of Americans investing in the Nazis. Dulles had as protege one 
>Richard Nixon... The plot gets very complex here and the best thing is to 
>read some of the books that have painstakingly documented this in great 
>detail after much research with primary material obtained by the Freedom of 
>Information Act and many interviews.
>
>A sample of this kind of history is recounted by John Loftus and Mark Aaron 
>in their book, The Secret War Against the Jews: "According to several of 
>our sources among the 'old spies,' Richard Nixon's political career began 
>in 1945, when he was the navy officer temporarily assigned to review . . . 
>captured Nazi documents." The documents revealed the wartime record of Karl 
>Blessing, "former Reichsbank officer and then head of the Nazi oil cartel, 
>Kontinentale Ol A.G. 'Konti' was in partnership with [Allen] Dulles's 
>principal Nazi client, I.G. Farben. Both companies had despicable records 
>regarding their treatment of Jews during the Holocaust. After the war 
>Dulles not only 'lost' Blessings' Nazi party records, but he helped peddle 
>a false biography in the ever-gullible 'New York Times.'"
>
>Not only did Dulles help cover up his Nazi client's record, he "personally 
>vouched for Blessing as an anti-Nazi in order to protect continued control 
>of German oil interests in the Middle East. Blessing's Konti was the Nazi 
>link to Ibn Saud [King of Saudi Arabia] and Aramco [the Arabian- American 
>Oil Company]. If Blessing went down, he could have taken a lot of people 
>with him, including Allen Dulles. The cover-up worked, except that U.S. 
>Naval Intelligence scrutinized a set of the captured Konti records."
>
>Dulles made a deal with the navy officer who was reviewing the Konti files 
>- Richard Nixon. For Nixon's help in burying the Konti files, Dulles 
>"arranged to finance [Nixon's] first congressional campaign against Jerry 
>Voorhis." [13]
>
>Dulles's support for Nixon was rewarded in 1947 when, as the freshman 
>congressman from California, he "saved John Foster Dulles considerable 
>embarrassment by privately pointing out that confidential government files 
>showed that one of Foster's foundation employees, Alger Hiss, was allegedly 
>a Communist. The Dulles brothers took Nixon under their wing and escorted 
>him on a tour of Fascist 'freedom fighter' operations in Germany, 
>apparently in anticipation that the young congressman would be useful after 
>Dewey became president." [14]
>
>After Truman's victory, "Nixon became Allen Dulles's mouthpiece in 
>Congress. Both he and Senator Joseph McCarthy received volumes of 
>classified information to support the charge that the Truman administration 
>was filled with 'pinkos.' When McCarthy went too far in his Communist 
>investigations, it was Nixon who worked with his next-door neighbor, CIA 
>director Bedell Smith, to steer the investigations away from the 
>intelligence community.
>
>   "The CIA was grateful for Nixon's assistance, but did not know the 
>reason for it. Dulles had been recruiting Nazis under the cover of the 
>State Department's Office of Policy Coordination, whose chief, Frank 
>Wisner, had systematically recruited the Eastern European emigre networks 
>that had worked first for the SS, then the British, and finally Dulles.
>
>   "The CIA did not know it, but Dulles was bringing them to the United 
>States less for intelligence purposes than for political advantage. The 
>Nazis' job quickly became to get out the vote for the Republicans. One 
>Israeli intelligence officer joked that when Dulles used the phrase 'Never 
>Again,' he was not talking about the Holocaust but about Dewey's narrow 
>loss to Truman. In the eyes of the Israelis, Allen Dulles was the demon who 
>infected Western intelligence with Nazi recruits.
>
>   "In preparation for the 1952 Eisenhower-Nixon campaign, the Republicans 
>formed an Ethnic Division, which, to put it bluntly, recruited the 
>'displaced Fascists' who arrived in the United States after World War II. 
>Like similar migrant organizations in several Western countries, the Ethnic 
>Division attracted a significant number of Central and Eastern European 
>Nazis, who had been recruited by the SS as political and police leaders 
>during the Holocaust. These Fascist emigres supported the Eisenhower-Nixon 
>'liberation' policy as the quickest means of getting back into power in 
>their former homelands and made a significant contribution 'in its first 
>operation (1951/1952).'"
>
>Nazi hunters Loftus and Aarons point out that "over the years the Democrats 
>had acquired one or two Nazis of their own, such as Tscherim Soobzokov, a 
>former member of the Caucasian SS who worked as a party boss in New Jersey. 
>But in 90 percent of the cases, the members of Hitler's political 
>organization went to the Republicans. In fact, from the very beginning, the 
>word had been put around among Eastern European Nazis that Dulles and Nixon 
>were the men to see, especially if you were a rich Fascist . . ." [15]
>
>Nixon and Dulles "blamed Governor Dewey's razor-thin loss to Truman in the 
>1948 presidential election on the Jewish vote. When he became Eisenhower's 
>vice president in 1952, Nixon was determined to build his own ethnic base." 
>A base covering many nationalities who could help the Republicans win 
>votes, such as the Croatians and the Russians.
>
>   "The foreign language-speaking Croatian and other Fascist emigre groups 
>had a ready-made network for contacting and mobilizing the Eastern European 
>ethnic bloc. There is a very high correlation between CIA domestic 
>subsidies to Fascist 'freedom fighters' during the 1950s and the leadership 
>of the Republican party's ethnic campaign groups. The motive for 
>under-the-table financing was clear: Nixon used Nazis to offset the Jewish 
>vote for the Democrats.
>
>   "In 1952 Nixon had formed an Ethnic Division within the Republican 
>National Committee. 'Displaced Fascists, hoping to be returned to power by 
>an Eisenhower-Nixon "liberation" policy signed on' with the committee. In 
>1953, when Republicans were in office, the immigration laws were changed to 
>admit Nazis, even members of the SS. They flooded into the country. Nixon 
>himself oversaw the new immigration program. As vice president, he even 
>received Eastern European Fascists in the White House. After a long, long 
>journey, the Croatian Nazis had found a new home in the United States, 
>where they reestablished their networks.
>
>   "In 1968 Nixon promised that if he won the presidential election, he 
>would create a permanent ethnic council within the Republican party. 
>Previously the Ethnic Division was allowed to surface only during 
>presidential campaigns. Nixon's promise was carried out after the 1972 
>election, during [George] Bush's tenure as chairman of the Republican 
>National Committee. The Croatian Ustashis became an integral part of the 
>campaign structure of Republican politics, along with several other Fascist 
>organizations." [16]
>
>Nixon was strongly pro-Nazi: "Nixon himself personally recruited ex-Nazis 
>for his 1968 presidential campaign. Moreover, Vice President Nixon became 
>the point man for the Eisenhower administration on covert operations and 
>personally supervised Allen Dulles's projects while Ike was ill in 1956 and 
>1957." [17]
>
>The Republicans' attraction to Nazism was also observed by Robert J. Groden 
>and Harrison Edward Livingstone, authors of the book, "High Treason," 
>dealing with the Kennedy Assassination. Groden and Livingstone write: 
>"Nixon surrounded himself with what was known as the Berlin Wall, a long 
>succession of advisors with Germanic names: We recall at the top of his 
>'German General Staff' as it was also known, Haldeman, Erlichman, Krogh, 
>Kliendienst, Kissinger (the Rockefellers' emissary) and many others.
>
>   "The selection of German names was no accident. Many of the brighter 
>staff people close to Nixon came to him from the University of Southern 
>California, and the University of California at Los Angeles, where there 
>were fraternities that kept alive the vision of a new Reich. America has 
>for a long time harbored this dark side of its character, one of violence 
>and the Valhalla of Wagner and Hitler.
>
>   "But Gordon Liddy was the one in whose mind 'Triumph of the Will' was 
>the most alive. Some of these men would watch the great Nazi propaganda 
>films in the basement of the White House until all hours of the night, and 
>drink, in fact, get drunk with their power, with blind ambition, as one of 
>them wrote." [18]
>
>   "According to several of our sources in the intelligence community who 
>were in a position to know," continue Loftus and Aarons, "the secret 
>rosters of the Republican party's Nationalities Council read like a Who's 
>Who of Fascist fugitives. The Republican's Nazi connection is the darkest 
>secret of the Republican leadership. The rosters will never be disclosed to 
>the public...the Fascist connection is too widespread for damage control.
>
>   According to a 1988 study by Russ Bellant of Political Research 
>Associates in Cambridge, Massachusetts, virtually all of the Fascist 
>organizations of World War II opened up a Republican party front group 
>during the Nixon administration. The level of the Republican ethnic leaders 
>can be gauged by a New Jersey man, Emanuel Jasiuk, a notorious mass 
>murderer from what is today called the independent nation of Belarus, 
>formerly part of the Soviet Union. But not all American ethnic communities 
>are represented in the GOP's Ethnic Heritage Council section; there are no 
>black or Jewish heritage groups. . . .Bellant has written a comprehensive 
>study of this phenomenon, well worth a look. [19]
>
>Even before the break-in at the Democratic Party Headquarters on June 17, 
>1972, the Republicans were on the brink of having their pro-Nazi activities 
>over the past four decades come out in the mass-media. After the Watergate 
>break-in, as the Congressional Hearings began to reveal the slush-funds, 
>money-laundering, illegal corporate campaign contributions, the political 
>sabotage of the 1972 Presidential election process, and many other aspects 
>of Nixonism, the floodgates of truth were about to open. Only one thing 
>averted: Nixon's resignation and his pardon by his successor Gerald Ford.
>
>
>South River, New Jersey: VorKommando Moskau�s new home
>
>One of the most brutal groups ever to settle in New Jersey since the 
>English killed the Indians was the VorKommando Moskau, originally formed by 
>the SS as they advanced into Eastern Europe and recruited White Russians 
>fleeing their homeland. "VorKommando Moskau was an elite forward unit of SS 
>intelligence on the Soviet front. Its primary mission was anti-Communist 
>intelligence, but it was also responsible for security screening of the 
>occupied populations in the broad sector of the Eastern Front... 
>VorKommando Moskau did not kill the Jews. [Or the Slavs, who were also 
>slaughtered in large numbers.] It hired the collaborators, who recruited 
>the executioners, who killed the Jews. From 1940 to 1942 this one small 
>unit acted as an employment agency for the architects of the Nazi genocide 
>in Eastern Europe." They primarily hired Eastern Europeans. [20]
>
>During his tenure as Nazi hunter in the Justice Department, John Loftus 
>discovered how the White Russians in the VorKommando Moskau were heavily 
>recruited by the US government to fight the Soviets and how all 
>documentation of their Nazi past was well hidden from prying eyes. "Many of 
>the White Russian Nazis had been resettled en masse in the town of South 
>River, New Jersey." [21] Allen Dulles and Bill Casey, who was later 
>Reagan�s CIA director, resettled most of the Vorkommando Moskau�s elite 
>leadership group in the New York - New Jersey area. [22] In April, 1998 it 
>was discovered that Casey sought for and received a dispensation from the 
>Justice Department so that CIA officers would not have to reveal drug 
>trafficking on the part of their contract workers and this 6 months before 
>large scale trafficking began in support of the Nicaraguan Contras. Casey 
>was an old pro at sanitizing the unmentionable.
>
>In 1950, the FBI "recruited every White Russian Nazi it could find in the 
>New York - New Jersey area." When in the 60�s a New York reporter, Charles 
>Allen, began his accusations that Nazis were living in the US, the FBI 
>investigated him and labeled him a Russian pawn. [23] It would be 
>interesting to find out about the role of these Nazis in Hoover�s 
>COINTELPRO operations against the Black Panthers and others.
>
>Given the massive settlement of Nazis in New Jersey, it would not at all be 
>surprising if some number of them found their way into the State Police. 
>After all, police work was what they were professionally suited for, what 
>they had done for years prior to coming to the US.  We can also expect the 
>Nazis to have found jobs as corrections officers in a prison system which 
>has shown itself remarkably tolerant of the Aryan Brotherhood and 
>Sisterhood.
>
>
>The New Jersey State Police�s war on Blacks and Latinos
>
>In an article appearing in the New York Times on Sunday, May 10, 1998 
>entitled "Van Shooting Revives Charges of Racial 'Profiling' by N.J. State 
>Police," journalist John Kifner talks about how "The furor over an incident 
>in which two New Jersey State Police officers fired 11 shots into a van 
>during a traffic stop comes against a backdrop of years of allegations that 
>troopers in New Jersey have illegally used race-based profiles to stop 
>black and Hispanic drivers in hope of making drug arrests."
>
>As the article discussed, this case is related to a court case that led a 
>Superior Court judge to conclude in 1996 that the New Jersey State Police 
>had a policy of "selective enforcement" by "targeting blacks for 
>investigation and arrest."
>
>The article describes the findings of the 1996 trial:
>
>"The ruling followed one of the state's longest evidentiary hearings -- six 
>months of testimony and 200 exhibits, many of them statistical surveys of 
>drivers and traffic stops on the southernmost 26-mile stretch of the New 
>Jersey Turnpike. Judge Robert Francis found that troopers looking for drug 
>suspects had pulled over an inordinate number of black drivers over a 
>three-year period simply because of their race.
>
>The survey first determined that some 98 percent of all the drivers along 
>the stretch of the turnpike were going over the speed limit of 55 miles per 
>hour, giving the police latitude to stop virtually anybody. The survey 
>found that while 13.5 percent of the drivers on the stretch of highway were 
>black, 46 percent of those halted by the police over a 40-month period were 
>black.
>
>"They were pulling over blacks out of all proportion to the population of 
>the turnpike," said Fred Last, a public defender who helped design the 
>survey. Francis agreed, saying: "The statistical disparities are indeed 
>stark." He added that the "utter failure" of police commanders to monitor 
>the arrests or "investigate the many claims of institutional 
>discrimination, manifests its indifference if not acceptance."
>
>One striking result of the survey, both the judge and Lamberth noted, was 
>that troopers using radar tended to stop black drivers at near their rate 
>in the highway population, while the troopers on road patrol cruising 
>without radar, who could more freely choose who to stop, arrested far more 
>blacks.
>
>"As they got more discretion, they stopped more blacks," Lamberth said. "It 
>is a telling argument that they are profiling. They get promoted on the 
>basis of the number of arrests they make, and there is the general 
>mythology that blacks are more likely than whites to have contraband." [1]
>
>
>The New Jersey State Police�s war on Assata Shakur
>
>Assata Shakur is a Black Panther and Black Liberation Army leader who was 
>captured after a shoot-out on the New Jersey Turnpike in 1973. Forensic 
>evidence revealed that she was shot in the back with her hands up. Killed 
>in the shoot-out were Zayed Malik Shakur and Voerner Foerster, a New Jersey 
>trooper of German extraction.
>
>First the troopers debated finishing her off at the road side, but they 
>thought she was going to die anyway. When she didn�t, they tortured her, 
>hitting her in her wound with their gun-butts. This is a classic Gestapo 
>tactic, according to a member of a French Resistance family who reviewed 
>the case for us. (For an interesting summary of Nazi behavior towards 
>blacks in Germany, see a review of Hitler's Forgotten Victims by David 
>Okuefuna and Moise Shewa.)
>
>After railroading Assata and convicting her of the murder of Foerster, the 
>New Jersey State Police was demoralized and dismayed when she escaped in 
>1979. They became obsessed with her recapture, as has come out in countless 
>testimony, such as this letter from a New Jersey State employee:
>
>   "I felt it should be known of the hatred that is programmed by the New 
>Jersey State Police Academy to the new Troopers. They are programmed Assata 
>is the number ONE criminal, and should be apprehended at all cost. I am a 
>New Jersey State Employee, I just happen to be in [a medical setting] one 
>day, I was advising a [campus] Police Officer of Assata's Book, informing 
>him of some of its positive contents.
>
>   Unknown to me at that particular time there was a N.J. State Trooper in 
>our presence just about two feet around a corner. The trooper just happen 
>to hear our conversation regarding my positive feelings on the book. 
>[Later], my partner ask me what did I do the that particular State Trooper, 
>I asked my partner what did he mean by the question, he in turn went on to 
>explain the Trooper confronted him ... and told him I had a serious 
>problem, and had better watch myself, I can possibly get myself into 
>serious trouble with my attitude. Keep in mind the only problem I had was 
>to mention to a Police Officer who happened to be black of the very 
>positive content of book, in which a N.J. Trooper just happened to be at 
>ear distance.
>
>   I did everything to maintain my cool, a Sgt.Trooper who happened to be 
>black heard our conversation, he ask me what was the debate about and I 
>went on to explain to him of the trooper hearing my conversation about the 
>book. He stated the trooper was totally wrong but that�s the way they are 
>programmed.
>
>   For some reason I had to get this out, this happened approximately two 
>years ago. I saw the hatred in this particular trooper eyes, the trooper 
>couldn't have been any older than 24 years of age, but the rage of anger 
>and hatred was glaring deeply into my soul. "
>
>In addition, we have reports that the New Jersey troopers are still looking 
>for Assata on the New Jersey Turnpike, despite the fact that she left the 
>country over a decade ago. Every barracks has a wanted poster of Assata on 
>the walls. They have arrested a number of innocent black women drivers, 
>including a civil rights attorney, claiming that they are wanted for 
>murder.
>
>Finally, in their obsession, the State Police wrote a letter to the Pope in 
>December, 1997, asking His Holiness to intervene with Fidel Castro during 
>his visit to Cuba, where Assata Shakur has found refuge. It is a letter one 
>observer likens to "something an inmate in a back ward would do out of the 
>depth of his delusional state." The letter succeeded in raising the 
>visibility of Shakur�s situation, and now Republican Governor Christie has 
>gotten into the act by increasing the reward for bringing in Shakur to 
>$50,000. This reward, which has been compared to the bounty on escaped 
>slaves, will encourage the crazies and the bounty hunters.
>
>
>The Future
>
>The author would like to appeal to those who have information bearing on 
>these matters to make it known. We are finally beginning to understand some 
>of the background of New Jersey law enforcement and it is important that 
>this be aired in public and that information be reliably assembled and made 
>available to attorneys. Interested parties may reach the author via 
>main@....
>
>Already, as  a result of posting this article, we have had some interesting 
>feedback, including this one:
>
>     "When I was training with the NJ State Police back in the early 80's I 
>left after 10 weeks because of their Nazi Training style and the number of 
>Nazi recruits who did not hide it even then. They were very open about 
>their HATE and it was the main reason that I lost interest in joining. I 
>was personally threatened by 6 of them when I was alone and was told that 
>they would be watching for me on the Highways.
>
>     So I know you are telling the Truth.
>
>     Peace!!!"
>
>We encourage more folks to come forward with their testimony.
>
>The books cited in this article are part of a sizeable literature on this 
>subject, yet many people remain unaware. The literature is the result of 
>careful research and deserves to be integrated into the teaching of 
>history. The impact of this history continues through us and we have to 
>deal with that not by denying and ignoring it but by bringing out all the 
>implications.
>
>Republican Rep Bob Franks and Republican Governor Christie Whitman need to 
>be aware that issuing a $50,000 reward for bounty hunters in the case of 
>Assata Shakur only perpetuates the grotesque and shameful past of their 
>party in New Jersey. Ironically, Gov Whitman has been shunned by the 
>traditionally Republican "fox-hunting" set in New Jersey as she lowered 
>taxes, which resulted in an increase in real estate taxes to compensate for 
>lost revenue. This stung the rich land owners. She then turned to other 
>constituents, such as the Nazi tinged law and order crowd and the Cuban 
>American extreme right. The Cuban Americans are a varied community but they 
>have been hijacked in New Jersey and Miami by a CIA sponsored leadership 
>with extreme right wing tendencies which hark back to Franco�s Falangist 
>party. Whitman is thus reviving the old war-time alliance between the Nazis 
>and Franco�s Spain. Is this really a recipe for the future?
>
>
>Footnotes
>
>[1]"Van Shooting Revives Charges of Racial 'Profiling' by N.J. State 
>Police," by John Kifner, New York Times, Sunday, May 10, 1998
>
>[2] Assata: An Autobiography by Assata Shakur, Lawrence Hill Books, Chicago 
>Review Press, Inc., Chicago IL, ISBN 0-55652-074-3       Click here to 
>order  ==>
>
>[3] The Secret War against the Jews: How Western Espionage Betrayed the 
>Jewish People by John Loftus and Mark Aaron, St. Martin's Griffin, NY, 
>1994, ISBN 0-312-15648-0  Click here to order  ==>
>
>[4] Lifting the Veil: Life in Revolutionary Iran by John Simpson & Tira 
>Shubart, Hodder & Stoughton, London, 1995
>
>[5] Countercoup: The Struggle for the Control of Iran, by Kermit Roosevelt, 
>reissued in 1979
>
>[6] See http://www.sussexcounty.com/campnord.htm and Wunderlich's Salute by 
>Marvin D. Miller, Malamud-Rose Publishers, 1983.
>
>[7] The Spotlight, August 28, 1995, September 4, 1995 and Smith's Report 
>Number 26, September 1995 (a pro-Nazi publication).
>
>[8] Trading With The Enemy : An Expose of the Nazi-American Money 
>Plot,1933-1949 by Charles Higham, Dell, NY, 1983
>Click here to order  ==>
>
>[9] Ibid, pp 53-55
>
>[10] Ibid, p 56
>
>[11] Ibid, p 58
>
>[12] The Secret War against the Jews, pp166-170
>
>[13] Ibid. p 221
>
>[14] Ibid. pp 221-222
>
>[15] Ibid., pp 222-223
>
>[16] Ibid., pp 122-123
>
>[17] Ibid., pp 224-225
>
>[18] High Treason, by Robert J. Groden and Harrison Edward Livingstone, pp. 
>417-418
>
>[19] Old Nazis, the New Right and the Reagan Administration: The Role of 
>Domestic Fascists Networks in the Republican Party and their Effects on 
>U.S. Cold War Politics, monograph by Russ Bellant, Political Research 
>Associates, Cambridge MA
>An excellent, very well researched monograph.  Must have. Click here to 
>order  ==>
>
>[20] The Secret War against the Jews, pp 496-497
>
>[21] Ibid., pp 505-506
>
>[22] Ibid., pp 506
>
>[23] Ibid., pp 508-509
>
>Bibliography
>
>See an interesting series of articles by Robert Lederman for several 
>analyses of the pervasive effects of the US - Nazi alliance at 
>http://Baltech.org/lederman/
>
>   Robert Lederman is an artist, a regular columnist for the Greenwich 
>Village Gazette, The Shadow, The African Sun Times, The Vigo-Examiner, and 
>Street News, and is the author of hundreds of published essays concerning 
>Mayor Rudolph Giuliani. Lederman has been falsely arrested 41 times to date 
>(10/10/00) for his anti-Giuliani activities and has never been convicted of 
>any of the charges. He is best known for creating hundreds of paintings of 
>Mayor Giuliani as a Hitler like dictator.
>
>This article is dedicated to the memory of my ancestors who fought the 
>nazis.
>(c) 1998 by Hans Wolff
>Anyone interested in publishing this article may reach the author through 
>main@...
>
>A Black Cop Tries To Break the Code of Silence in New Jersey
>http://www.villagevoice.com/features/9928/noel.shtml
>       Against the Blue Wall: A Black Cop Tries To Break the Code of 
>Silence in New Jersey
>       by Peter Noel
>       Village Voice, July 14 - 20, 1999
>
>       The leader of an activist black law-enforcement group�regarded by 
>admirers as an avenging Shaka Zulu with a 9 millimeter is urging African 
>American troopers to jam media switchboards with accounts of "sanctioned 
>racial profiling" by the mostly white New Jersey State Police hierarchy.
>
>       The appeal from De Lacy D. Davis, an East Orange Police Department 
>sergeant, who heads Black Cops Against Police Brutality, comes in the wake 
>of last week's ruling by a judge who threw out a state police edict that 
>threatened discipline for troopers who did unauthorized interviews with 
>reporters. "I encourage the troopers to speak out as loudly, and as often 
>as possible," says Davis, "because although the dam is going to be lowered 
>on the 'Blue Wall of Silence,' some of its defenders will be rushing to 
>make repairs to it as soon as they spot a leak."
>
>       In a landmark decision, state Superior Court Judge Anthony Parrillo 
>found that while police agencies may control the release of confidential 
>information, the New Jersey State Police had imposed an overly broad rule, 
>which crushed free-speech rights, as a way to avoid embarrassment. The 
>ruling was sought by trooper Samuel Davis and 12 black colleagues who filed 
>a discrimination lawsuit in federal court claiming they were denied 
>permission to give interviews about the controversy over racial
>       profiling and mistreatment of minority motorists. "The ruling gives 
>us an opportunity to hear once bottled-up truth aired again, and we will 
>give the black troopers our full support to get their message out," Davis 
>vows.
>
>       The 37-year-old activist also is speaking out about beatings in 
>police custody, an aspect of the blue wall he's been chipping away at with 
>no results until now. Three years ago, Davis claims, he witnessed a 
>detective forcibly attempt to remove a prisoner fom the lobby of the East 
>Orange Municipal Courthouse. While one officer intervened to stop the 
>confrontation, no one except Davis reported it. Because he had broken the 
>code of silence, Davis alleges, the detective, Victor Tucker, harassed and 
>threatened him, eventually telling him, "I'm gonna take your gun and stick 
>it up your ass!" (Sergeant John LeGates of the East Orange Police 
>Department's Professional Standards Unit would neither confirm nor deny
>       whether Tucker, a 13-year veteran, has had previous brutality 
>complaints filed against him. "You'll have to get a court order for that," 
>LeGates told the Voice.) In a 1997 report to internal affairs, Davis 
>charged that his complaint of misconduct against Tucker "was discovered on 
>the floor in police headquarters"� three months after he'd filed it. Davis 
>had run up against the wall.
>
>       In April of this year, after FBI agents seized records and other 
>items from the Orange Police Department� as part of federal and state 
>investigations into the case of a man who died in custody during the search 
>for the killer of a black female cop� Davis felt that his national crusade 
>against police custodial beatings and mistreatment of minority prisoners 
>finally would be acknowledged. Nearly three months later, Davis cautiously 
>declares that years of persistent protests may be paying off.
>       According to the activist� who was featured in a Nightline 
>documentary on police racial practices� guilty consciencesand tied tongues, 
>particularly in New Jersey law-enforcement circles, finally are succumbing 
>to an outcry for justice. On July 1, nine Newark police officers were 
>suspended, allegedly for beating a prisoner and provoking other detainees 
>to assault him by telling them that the man, who was awaiting trial, had 
>sexually assaulted a juvenile. Appearing at a news conference, grim-faced 
>police director Joseph J. Santiago declared that the department would not 
>condone "blue walls of silence," adding that an internal investigation, 
>when completed, will be forwarded to the Essex County prosecutor to 
>determine whether criminal charges against the officers should be pursued. 
>"We will not tolerate brutality; we will not tolerate silence about 
>brutal-ity," Santiago said.
>
>       Despite speculation that the officers "ratted" on each other, Davis 
>does not share Santiago's exuberance about demolishing the blue wall. "The 
>blue wall is hardening," he contends. "There are those who believe that it 
>is crumbling; I argue that the wall is not crumbling. It's just that some 
>truth is able to seep through the bricks in mortar that has not dried yet."
>
>       Disclosure about the assault on the alleged pedophile, who is 
>Latino, comes amid heightened concern in New Jersey about police treatment 
>of minorities. Federal civil rights prosecutors have been negotiating a 
>possible settlement with the state regarding racial profiling by state 
>troopers. Activists like Davis also have been prodding the Justice 
>Department to investigate the circumstances of a chase and fatal shooting 
>last month of a black motorist by state and local police in Parsippany.
>       In addition, a grand jury has been investigating two troopers who 
>shot at four unarmed minority men during a traffic stop on the New Jersey 
>Turnpike in April 1998.
>
>       Across the Hudson, Davis is closely monitoring the case of Yvette 
>Walton, a 12-year NYPD veteran who was fired a half hour after she 
>testified before the City Council on April 19 that her old outfit, the 
>mostly white Street Crime Unit, discriminated against black and Hispanic 
>officers and routinely violated citizens' rights by searching them without 
>justification. Last month, Walton filed a federal lawsuit against the city, 
>charging that she was dismissed in retaliation for criticizing the 
>department. Davis claims that for four years, East Orange police brass 
>denied him a promotion partly because he has spoken out against a pattern
>       of civil rights violations in police departments nationwide. In 
>1997, then chief Harry Harmon, who is black, allegedly tried to muzzle 
>Davis, who had been writing a scathing series of articles about alleged 
>police misconduct entitled "Breaking the Blue Code of Silence" in the 
>weekly Citizen. Davis had charged that Harmon "ordered" Captain Peter 
>Biggiani to pressure him to reveal the sources for his expos�s. In a July 
>2, 1997, memo to Biggiani, Davis charged that targeting him was "an attempt 
>by
>       this agency to harass me and circumvent [a judge's] court order 
>restraining any acts of retaliation."
>
>       Lieutenant Kevin Hopkins, a spokesman for the East Orange Police 
>Department, says he will look into Davis's allegation. Harmon, who is no 
>longer with the department, could not be reached for comment. In the memo, 
>Davis noted that his role as regional president of the National Black 
>Police Association made him more "aware of many abuses in law enforcement 
>around the country." His sources, Davis taunted, are well known to the 
>department. "Regarding racist cops, my [source] is Mark
>       Furhman from the Los Angeles PD, drug-using cops, and other 
>[abusers] in law enforcement," he wrote. "My references [include] officers 
>in the NYPD, and Michael Dowd's testimony before the Mollen Commission."
>
>       Davis suggested that the department was not interested in credible 
>sources such as cops who identified themselves to internal affairs after 
>witnessing the confrontation between himself and Officer Tucker. Tension 
>had been mounting between Davis and Tucker after Davis injected himself 
>into a dispute with a prisoner. In a report to internal affairs, Davis said 
>that on October 23, 1996, while in the lobby of the East Orange Municipal 
>Courthouse, he was distracted by angry banter between Officer
>       William Phillips and the prisoner, Michael Grudger. He said he asked 
>both the officer and the prisoner "to quiet down" but their voices grew 
>louder. "Eventually . . . Officer Victor Tucker grabbed Mr. Grudger from 
>behind and attempted to pull him from the lobby. . . .," Davis claimed. 
>"The citizen repeatedly told Officer Tucker that he did not want to leave
>       the building. Officer Phillips grabbed Officer Tucker and advised 
>him to release Mr. Grudger. Officer Tucker eventually complied and Officer 
>Phillips escorted Tucker out of the building."
>
>       Davis said that after he reported Tucker's alleged misconduct to 
>internal affairs, Tucker began to harass him. On June 3, 1997, they came 
>face to face at a packed assembly room at police headquarters. "Since you 
>are such a brother, maybe you will give a copy of the reports that you 
>filed on me," Davis quoted Tucker as saying in a complaint he submitted 
>shortly after the incident. When Davis told Tucker he could get copies from 
>internal affairs, "the detective became irate, loud, and boisterous with 
>me. He began to curse and shout that he was going to 'kick my ass,' that I 
>'wasn't shit.' " During the altercation, Davis said that he feared Tucker 
>would carry out his threat to disarm him of his gun and shove it
>       up his rectum.
>
>       At least three three other officers backed up Davis's version in 
>writing. In his statement, Officer Gary Griffin said Tucker was the 
>aggressor. "Detective Tucker used many obscenities [such as] 'You ain't 
>shit.' Detective Tucker then [challenged] Officer Davis to meet him at a 
>private place to confront him. Officer Davis responded, 'If you're not 
>guilty, you'll win in court.' " Davis's remark infuriated Tucker, who, 
>according to Griffin, "had to be physically removed by Officer Charles Hall 
>and
>       others." Tucker, Griffin added, "returned an additional three times 
>to confront Officer Davis. Each time he had to be physically removed by at 
>least two officers."
>
>       In their last encounter, Griffin recalled, Tucker told Davis that 
>although he was unarmed, that he had "no cuffs and no gun," he would take 
>Davis's own gun and sodomize him with it. "Officer Tucker was hostile in 
>his mannerism, both vocally and physically, commissioning Officer Davis to 
>step outside," Hall said in his statement. "The two officers exchanged 
>words several times but nothing physical came about. There were several 
>officers in the assembly room at the time along with Sergeant LeGates and
>       Lieutenant Gloria Oliver."
>
>       Grudger and Tucker eventually dropped charges against each other. 
>But Tucker was later convicted of "making terroristic threats" against 
>Davis, a clerk at the East Orange Municipal Court confirms. He was 
>originally fined $500, but that was suspended and he wound up paying $127. 
>"Although he was found guilty, the department did nothing to him because it 
>was
>       covering for him," Davis charges.
>
>       A law-enforcement insider, who is familiar with the former case 
>against Tucker, told the Voice, "it would seem that an administrative 
>hearing would have followed after a conviction like that. There was none. 
>You could infer from that that somebody was protecting someone."
>
>       Additional reporting: Karen Mahabir
>
>Contacting AfroCubaWeb
>   Postal address
>   Box 1054, Arlington, MA 02474
>   Electronic mail
>   main@...
>
>   Got a question?  Post it in our Discussion Group.
>[AfroCubaWeb][Contents] [Music] [Arts][Authors & Teachers] 
>[Arts][Organizations][News] [Conferences][Newsletter][Discussion 
>Group][What's New][Search this site]
>
>Copyright � 1997 AfroCubaWeb, sa
>Last modified: October 22, 2000

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Post ID:1614
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-03 12:41:12
Subject:Marine shot to death in Newark by corrections officer
Message:

Marine shot to death in
                Newark by corrections officer

                06/03/01

                BY LIZ LEYDEN
                STAR-LEDGER STAFF

                <-1

                A 23-year-old Marine on leave to visit his family in Orange
                was fatally shot early yesterday on an Irvington street.

                Lance Cpl. Daniel Nichol was shot in the torso on Lyons
                Avenue around 1:45 a.m., police said. He was taken to
                University Hospital in Newark, where he was pronounced
                dead, police said.

                Police identified the shooter as James Brailsford, a
                33-year-old Essex County corrections officer. Brailsford
                was not on duty at the time of the shooting, police said.

                Brailsford, a Newark resident, was questioned yesterday
                by investigators, said Irvington Police Chief Steven
                Palamara. He would not comment on the circumstances
                surrounding the shooting.

                No arrests have been made in the case, which is being
                investigated by the Irvington Police Department and the
                Essex County Prosecutor's Office.

                Besides Brailsford's 9 mm handgun, a .380-caliber
                handgun was also found at the scene, near the intersection
                of Lyons Avenue and Coit Street, Palamara said. He said it
                was unclear who owned the second weapon.

                "The investigation is in its beginning stages with witnesses
                being interviewed, forensic evidence being examined and
                investigation leads being pursued," said Palamara.

                Brailsford could be reached for comment.

                Nichol was a son of the Rev. Ralph Nichol, pastor of the
                Deliverance Evangelistic Center on Clinton Avenue in
                Newark.

                Yesterday, many of Nichol's seven brothers and sisters
                and extended family members gathered at the family's
                stately brick home in Orange, anxiously awaiting to hear
                from police about what happened.

                "The prosecutor's office said they can't give out any
                information at this early stage," Ralph Nichol said. "We're
                just up in the air."

                A spokesperson for the prosecutor's office could not be
                reached for comment.

                Family members said Nichol arrived home Friday night
                from Henderson Hall, the Marine base in Arlington, Va.,
                where he was stationed, for a weekend visit. He then went
                out with friends, including a fellow Marine who had
                accompanied Nichol home.

                Edward Nichol, Nichol's uncle and himself a retired
                corrections officer for Essex County, said the family was
                "dumbfounded" by his nephew's death and frustrated by
                the lack of information about it.

                Despite the fact that a county corrections officer was
                involved, Nichol said he had faith that police would
                thoroughly investigate the shooting.

                "We're going to let them do their job. . . . We're just 
trying
                to find out exactly what happened," he said. "It makes me
                feel bad, because I don't know what the circumstances
                were. This was not a bad kid."

                From his home in Fayetteville, N.C., Derrick Nichol
                dismissed the notion that his brother could have done
                anything to provoke the shooting.

                "He was not one of those gung-ho Marine guys. Everyone
                who knows him will tell you he is not capable of hurting
                anybody," Nichol said. "Something is wrong here."

                Family members said Nichol had enlisted in the Marine
                Corps shortly after graduating from Columbia High School
                in Maplewood in 1997 and spent two years at a U.S. base
                in Okinawa, Japan. After returning to the States, Nichol
                used weekend passes to visit his family up to three times
                a month.

                "He was very close to his family. . . . If anything was 
going
                on here, he would make it his business to come visit," Rev.
                Nichol said, recalling that his son had visited in May to
                celebrate his birthday.

                "We were very proud of Danny," the father said as he
                regarded a picture of his son taken when he was in
                kindergarten. "We're going to miss him."

                Anyone with information about the shooting is asked to call
                the homicide unit of the Essex County Prosecutor's office
                at (973) 621-4700.

                   Subscriptions & Contacts | Archives | Personals |
                                 Obituaries

                � 2001 The Star-Ledger. Used by NJ.com with permission.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1615
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-03 17:14:02
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: [coalitionforjustice] New Jersey and the Nazis
Message:

ALTHOUGH WE SEE ONLY WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW. GOD SEES WHERE HE IS
LEADING US. YOU ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO OUR BLESSED SAVIOR.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1616
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-03 17:22:54
Subject:Re: [njfo] Fwd: [coalitionforjustice] New Jersey and the Nazis
Message:

STOP RIGHT HERE. ARE YOU READY? LET'S GO INTO A PATHWAY TO A BETTER
LIFE!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1617
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-04 00:59:37
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Marine shot to death in Newark by corrections officer
Message:

WE KNOWN OF THOUSANDS WHO ARE FOLLOWING THIS PLAN AND THEY ALL SEEM TO
BE GETTING ALONG QUITE WELL. SOMEHOW THEY SEEM TO ACCOMPLISH MORE WITH
NINE TENTHS THAN THOSE WHO SPEND ALL TENTHS ON THEMSELVES.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1618
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-04 01:06:48
Subject:Re: [njfo] Marine shot to death in Newark by corrections officer
Message:

THERE IS A BLESSING IN IT. AND A VERY RICH BLESSING IT IS-JUST AS GOD
PROMISED THROUGH MALACHI. THE WINDOWS OF HEAVEN ARE OPENED AND HIS
BOUNTIES ARE BESTOWED BEYOND ALL EXPECTATION. MANY WELL-KNOWN
BUSINESSMEN ASCRIBE THEIR PROSPERITY TO THEIR ADOPTION OF THIS PLAN.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1619
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-04 12:25:59
Subject:Re: [njfo] Marine shot to death in Newark by corrections officer
Message:

Dear Mr. Ford,

Could you please not preach to us on these egroups? I don't think it is the 
appropriate venue to push religious beliefs.

Thank you,
Kristina


>From: TRACYFORD1420@...
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>CC: njfo@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, 
>coalitionforjustice@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [njfo] Marine shot to death in Newark by corrections officer
>Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 01:06:48 -0400 (EDT)
>
>THERE IS A BLESSING IN IT. AND A VERY RICH BLESSING IT IS-JUST AS GOD
>PROMISED THROUGH MALACHI. THE WINDOWS OF HEAVEN ARE OPENED AND HIS
>BOUNTIES ARE BESTOWED BEYOND ALL EXPECTATION. MANY WELL-KNOWN
>BUSINESSMEN ASCRIBE THEIR PROSPERITY TO THEIR ADOPTION OF THIS PLAN.
>
><< Message5.txt >>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1620
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-07 12:32:44
Subject:gang forum flier
Message:

Fowarded from B.N.F.
(Please let me know if the fler attachment fails...)
-Matt

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Trevor Phillips" <tphillipsjr-1@...>
Reply-To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
To: "Alexandre, Reynaldine \(Exchange\)" <RALEXANDRE@...>
Subject: [motherlandcollective] gang forum flier
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:16:15 -0400

Please forward, this is a once in a lifetime event.
-Trev

  gang forum flier

_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1621
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-07 18:13:19
Subject:Re: [nbpc] gang forum flier
Message:

matt,

didnt get the attachment.

what is the "onceinalifetime event"?

cliff


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, 
>aspirito70@..., bayewilson@..., bscott@..., 
>rbender65@..., artes21@..., Funkhouser@..., 
>chrisrp22@..., mcrockford@..., citruswar@..., 
>djbender@..., subverter@..., emilio@..., 
>Groovemeister007@..., lknesta@..., kmyers@..., 
>OH_G@..., kvt@..., lknesta@..., 
>marcosxh@..., msda_msmith@..., MeadHajduk@..., 
>hajdukmi@..., NatBender@..., nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, 
>ngorfinkle@..., njfo@yahoogroups.com, pwhalen@..., 
>shorepaulie@..., richc@..., illbread@..., 
>jmluceno@..., tdegloma@..., traceyx@..., 
>xavier.hansen@...
>Subject: [nbpc] gang forum flier
>Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 16:32:44
>
>Fowarded from B.N.F.
>(Please let me know if the fler attachment fails...)
>-Matt
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Trevor Phillips" <tphillipsjr-1@...>
>Reply-To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
>To: "Alexandre, Reynaldine \(Exchange\)" <RALEXANDRE@...>
>Subject: [motherlandcollective] gang forum flier
>Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:16:15 -0400
>
>Please forward, this is a once in a lifetime event.
>-Trev
>
>   gang forum flier
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1622
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-07 18:33:03
Subject:prozac to treat pms (post-matriarchal syndrome)
Message:

death to patriarchy.
self-determination & reparations for women.
cliff



Gift or gimmick? 

        Lilly says Sarafem will help ease a severe
        premenstrual ailment. Critics call the drug -- Prozac
        by another name -- a profit ploy 

                     06/06/01

                     BY ED SILVERMAN 

                     The women in the magazine ads are all aglow. 
Sporting big smiles and carefree demeanors, they are poster children 
for happiness and serenity. 

                     These are the qualities Sarafem, a new name among 
prescription drugs, is supposed to create in women who suffer from a 
little-known ailment called PMDD, or premenstrual dysphoric disorder, a 
variant of premenstrual syndrome. 

                     The medicine, approved by regulators last year, is 
being widely promoted by its manufacturer, Eli Lilly & Co., as a 
godsend to menstruating women who otherwise would experience severe 
mood changes, sadness and irritability. 

                     If only it were that simple. 

                     A chorus of doctors and insurers say Sarafem is 
little more than a cleverly timed marketing ploy, because the drug is 
really a renamed version of Prozac. The patent on the blockbuster 
depression medicine expires this summer, and Lilly is scrambling to 
compensate for sales that will be lost to cheaper generics. 

                     Fueling the debate is a controversy over PMDD 
itself. Only 5 percent of women may experience PMDD, which some 
psychiatrists believe is questionable ailment. As a result, critics say 
Lilly is stigmatizing women by suggesting they suffer from a mental 
illness each month. Rather than demonstrating a genuine interest in 
women's health, they charge Lilly's move underscores the lengths to 
which drug makers will go to protect profits. 

                     "Lilly has done the wrong thing. Calling it 
Sarafem is deceptive. It's sort of like a little white lie," said 
Mickey Smith, director of the Center for Pharmaceutical Management and 
Marketing at the University of Mississippi. "There's an insidious 
element in this. "They ought to just say they've found a new way to use 
Prozac." 

                     For its part, the Indianapolis-based drug maker 
maintains it has done nothing wrong. Sarafem was designed in response 
to requests from women and their doctors who were seeking assistance in 
treating a little-understood ailment, according to Laura Miller, a 
Lilly spokeswoman. 

                     "PMDD is an underrecognized and undertreated 
disorder. Women have told us for years that they've been told it's 
something they have to live with or it's all in their heads," she said. 
Miller also noted that there are other instances in which more than one 
trademark exists for the same drug being used to treat different 
ailments. 

                     Nonetheless, Lilly faces a huge dilemma when it 
comes to Prozac, which generated $2.6 billion in sales last year. 
Unless Lilly wins a court battle over patents, which Wall Street seems 
to think is unlikely, Prozac sales are forecast to drop by one-third 
next year, according to Hemant Shah, a securities analyst who follows 
the drug industry. 

                     By recasting Prozac as a new drug, though, Lilly 
stands to gain if doctors write prescriptions specifically for Sarafem. 
Right now, each drug costs nearly $3 a day for a month's supply. But as 
soon as a generic is available, the cost of Prozac is likely to drop by 
as much as 70 percent, according to the drug industry's usual rule of 
thumb. 

                     However, thanks to quirks in insurance coverage, 
Sarafem would continue to command a higher price that will be paid by 
insurers, at least those insurers that agree to underwrite the 
medication. Under this scenario, Lilly may be able to generate more 
revenue than the Indianapolis drug maker might otherwise if it hadn't 
conceived Sarafem. 

                     "The whole reason they did this is to keep sales 
up," said Terry Leach, director of pharmacy services at Horizon Blue 
Cross and Blue Shield of New Jersey. 

                     If a doctor writes a prescription for Sarafem, the 
pharmacist can't fill it with a generic Prozac unless they call the 
doctor and get permission to switch, he said. For that reason, Leach 
said, Lilly has incentive to price Sarafem as a branded product. 

                     Of course, not every insurer plans to go along. 
WellPoint Health Networks, a large health-maintenance organization 
based in Thousands Oaks, Calif., doesn't plan to cover the cost of 
either Sarafem or Prozac once the generic version becomes available 
this summer, according to Rob Siedman, the company's chief pharmacy 
officer. 

                     Coverage is an issue for others, too. The Health 
Care Payers Coalition of New Jersey, a nonprofit buyers consortium that 
represents self-funded businesses and labor health plans, recently 
denounced Lilly for aggressively promoting Sarafem. The group's 
officials worry that a high-priced drug will be too readily prescribe 
for women who do not need it. 

                     "This is going to get a lot of women taking 
Prozac, a psychotropic drug that effects the brain and has side 
effects," said David Knowlton, a former New Jersey health commissioner 
and coalition lobbyist. "I'm not saying price isn't an issue, but we're 
seeing an escalation in their marketing, which tends to drive people to 
a drug." 

                     Indeed, Lilly's marketing has been aggressive. 

                     From August, when the Food and Drug Administration 
approved this new use of Prozac, through January, the drug maker spent 
$17 million to promote it to consumers, according to Competitive Media 
Reporting.
                     During the same period, an additional $16 million 
was spent to promote it to doctors and in medical journals, according 
to IMS Health, a market-research firm. 

                     Within a few months of launching Sarafem, Lilly's 
advertising ran afoul of regulators. The FDA cited the drug maker for 
running a television ad that was "misleading, lacking in fair balance 
and in violation" of federal law, according to a letter sent last 
November by the agency to Lilly officials. 

                     The 60-second ad showed a frustrated woman trying 
to pull a shopping cart out of a tangled group of carts in front of a 
supermarket. The ad then said: "Think it's PMS? It could be PMDD," but 
it never distinguished between the two illnesses or specifically 
defined PMDD. The FDA complained the ad "trivializes the seriousness of 
PMDD." 

                     The ad campaign, which has been prominent in 
women's magazines, already has had an effect. Between September and 
February, the number of prescriptions written by doctors for Sarafem 
increased sevenfold, while the number of prescriptions written for 
Prozac declined, according to IMS Health. 

                     This trend worries Althea O'Shaughnessy, a 
Princeton gynecologist and reproductive endocrinologist. She believes 
too many women may react to the Sarafem ads by asking their doctors to 
write prescriptions. But she worries that such requests may be 
inappropriate because most women never experience PMDD. 

                     "The ads make it seem that you just take the drug 
and all the problems go away," O'Shaughnessy said. "I worry that 
physicians will prescribe it because of patient demand. But it's not a 
wonder drug or a cure-all. And only a very small percentage of women 
even suffer from PMDD. Even PMS is a very loose term for symptoms." 

The controversy over PMDD was never fully settled by the American  
Psychiatric Association. The organization, which oversees diagnoses, 
lists the ailment in both the appendix and the main section of a widely 
cited compendium of disorders called the Diagnostic and Standards 
Manual IV, which is the equivalent of the Bible among mental-health 
specialists. 

                     But a listing in the appendix is reserved for a 
diagnosis lacking sufficient evidence for validity, said Sally 
Severino, a former professor of psychiatry at the University of New 
Mexico School of Medicine and a member of a specially convened APA 
round table that, in 1998, was held to settle the PMDD debate. 

                     "The real question is whether PMDD is a valid 
diagnosis. If it is, you should be able to prove it in some way," she 
said. "But we can't ever seem to get any consistency about what 
symptoms should qualify for this diagnosis. 

                     "It's all very confusing. And by listing it in 
both places, the APA is talking out both sides of its mouth." 

                     Ed Silverman covers the drug industry and can be 
reached at (973) 392-1542 or esilverman@.... 

         Subscriptions & Contacts | Archives Personals | Obituaries 

             2001 The Star-Ledger. Used by NJ.com with permission.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1623
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-07 19:55:11
Subject:mao on green "election strategy"
Message:

from �On Protracted War�, Mao


The Question of Decisive Engagements in the Anti-Japanese War

106. The question of decisive engagements in the anti-Japanese war should be 
approached from three aspects: we should resolutely fight a decisive 
engagement in every campaign or battle in which we are sure of victory; we 
should avoid a decisive engagement in every campaign or battle in which we 
are not sure of victory; and we should absolutely avoid a strategically 
decisive engagement on which the fate of the whole nation is staked.  The 
characteristics differentiating tour War of Resistance Against Japan from 
many other wars are also revealed in this question of decisive engagements.  
In the first and second stages of the war, which are marked by the enemy�s 
strength and our weakness, the enemy�s objective is to have us concentrate 
our main forces for a decisive engagement.  Our objective is exactly the 
opposite.  We want to choose conditions favourable to us, concentrate 
superior forces and fight decisive campaigns or battles only when we are 
sure of victory, as in the battles at Pinghsingkuan, Taierhchuang, and other 
places;  we want to avoid decisive engagements under unfavourable conditions 
when we are not sure of victory, this being the policy we adopted in the 
Changteh and other campaigns.  As for fighting a strategically decisive 
engagement on which the fate of the whole nation is staked, we simply must 
not do so, as witness the recent withdrawal from Hsuchow.  The enemy�s plan 
for a �quick decision� was thus foiled, and now he cannot help fighting a 
protracted war with us.  These principles are impracticable in a country 
with a small territory, and hardly practicable in a country with a small 
territory, ahd hardly practicable in a country that is very backward 
politically.  They are practicable in China because she is a big country and 
is in an era of progress.  If strategically decisive engagements are 
avoided, then �as long as the green mountains are there, one need not worry 
about firewood�, for even though some of our territory may be lost, we shall 
still have plenty of room for manouvre and thus be able to promote and await 
domestic progress, international support and the internal disintegration of 
the enemy; that is the best policy for us in anti-Japanese war.  Unable to 
endure the arduous trials of a protracted war and eager for early triumph, 
the impetuous theorists of quick victory clamour for a strategically 
decisive engagement the moment the situation takes a slightly favourable 
turn.  To do what they want would be to iflict incalcuable damage on the 
entire war, spell finis to the protracted war, and land us in the enemy�s 
deadly trap; actually, it would be the worst policy.  Undoubtedly, if we are 
to avoid decisive engagements, we shall have to abandon territory, and we 
must have the courage to do so when (and only when) it becomes completely 
unavoidable.  At such times we should not feel the slightest regret, for 
this policy of trading space for time is correct.  History tells us how 
Russia made a courageous retreat to avoid a decisive engagement and then 
defeated Napoleon, the terror of his age.  Today China should do likewise.

107.  Are we not afraid of being denounced as �non-resisters�?  No, we are 
not.  Not to fight at all but to compromise with the enemy--that is 
non-resistance, which should not only be denounced but never be tolerated.  
We must resolutely fight the War of Resistance, but in order to avoid the 
enemy�s deadly trap, it is absolutely necessary that we should not allow our 
main forces to be finished off at one blow, which should make it absolutely 
necessary to avoid national subjugation.  To have doubts on this point is to 
be short-sighted on the question of the war and is sure to lead one into the 
ranks of the subjugationists.  We have criticized the desparate recklessness 
of �only advance, never retreat� precisely because, if it became the 
fashion, this doctrine would make it impossible to continue the War of 
Resistance and would lead to the danger of national subjugation.

108. We are for decisive engagements whenever circumstances are favourable, 
whether in battles or in major or minor campaigns, and in this respect we 
should never tolerate passivity.  Only through such decisive engagements can 
we achieve the objective of annihilating or depleting the enemy forces, and 
every soldier in the anti-Japanese war should resolutely play his part.  For 
this purpose considerable partial sacrifices are necessary; to avoid any 
sacrifice whatsoever is the attitude of cowards and of those afflicted by 
the fear of Japan and must be firmly opposed.  The execution of Li Fu-ying, 
Han Fu-chu and other flightists was justified.  Within the scope of correct 
war planning, encouraging the spirit and practice of heroic self-sacrifice 
and dauntless advance in a battle is absolutely necessary and inseperable 
from the waging of protracted war and the achievement of final victory.  We 
have strongly condemned the flightism of �only retreat, never advance� and 
have supported the strict enforcement of discipline, because it is only 
through heroic decisive engagements, fought under a correct plan, that we 
can vanquish the powerful enemy; flightism, on the contrary, gives direct 
support to the theory of national subjugation.

109  Is it not self-contradictory to fight heroically first and then abandon 
territory?  Will not our heroic fighters have shed their blood in vain?  
That is not at all the way questions should be posed.  To eat and then to 
empty your bowels--is this not to eat in vain?  To sleep and then to get 
up--is this not to sleep in vain?  Can questions be posed in such a way?  I 
would suppose not.  To keep on eating, to keep on sleeping, to keep on 
fighting heroically all the way to the Yalu River without a stop--these are 
subjectivist and formalist illusions, not realities of life.  As everybody 
knows, although in fighting and shedding our blood in order to gain time and 
prepare the counter-offensive we have had to abandon some territory, in fact 
we have gained time, we have achieved the objective of annihilating and 
depleting enemy forces, we have acquired experience in fighting, we have 
aroused hitherto inactive people and improved our international standing.  
Has our blood been shed in vain?  Certainly not.  Territory has been fiven 
up in order to preserve territory, because if we do not abandon part of our 
territory when conditions are unfavourable but blindly fight decisive 
engagements without the least assurance of winning, we shall lose our 
military forces and then be unable to avoid the loss of all our territory, 
to say nothing of recovering territory already lost.  A capitalist must have 
capital to run his business, and if he loses it all he is no longer a 
capitalist.  Even a gambler must have money to stake, and if he risks it all 
on a single throw and his luck fails, he cannot gamble any more.  Events 
have their twists and turns and do not follow a straight line, and war is no 
exeption; only formalists are unable to comprehend this truth.

110. I think the same will also hold true for the decisive engagements in 
the stage of strategic counter-offensive.  Although by then the enemy will 
be in the inferior and we in the superior position, the principle of 
�fighting profitable decisive engagements and avoiding unprofitable ones� 
will still apply and will continue to apply until we have fought our way to 
the Yalu River.  This is how we will be able to maintain our initiative from 
beginning to end, and as for the enemy�s �challenges� and other people�s 
�taunts�, we should imperturbably brush them aside and ignore them.  In the 
War of Resistance only those generals who show this kind of firmness can be 
deemed courageous and wise.  This is beyond the ken of those who �jump 
whenever touched�.  Even though we are in a more or less passive position 
strategically in this first stage of the war, we should have the initiative 
in every campaign; and of course we should have the initiative throughout 
the later stages.  We are for protracted war and final victory, we are not 
gamblers who risk everything on a single throw.

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Post ID:1624
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-08 10:30:28
Subject:Re: [nbpc] gang forum flier (text)
Message:

Text of Gang Forum Flyer for those who didn't get the attachment:

ATTENTION BLACK & LATINO YOUTH:

JOIN US FOR A
HIP-HOP YOUTH & GANG FORUM

*****************************************************
KEYNOTE SPEAKER: AFENI SHAKUR, MOTHER OF TUPAC SHAKUR
ACTIVIST/REVOLUTIONARY
*****************************************************

FEATURED PANELISTS:
KEVIN POWEL - ACTIVIST/WRITER
RAS BARAKA - POET/ACTIVIST
MIN. MICHAEL MUHAMMAD - NATIONOF ISLAM

SPECIAL INVITED GUESTS:
KRS1, SONIA SANCHEZ, SISTA SOULJAH, AMINA BARAKA, AMIRI BARAKA, DELACY 
DAVIS, JAMES MTUME

THURSDAY JUNE 21 2001 7PM

CENTRAL HIGH SCHOOL
100SUMMIT ST, NEWARK

ADMISSIOIN FREE

CONTACT 973 698 9504

CO SPONSORED BY BLACK NIA FORCE, MUHAMMAD MOSQUE #25, PAN-AFRICAN MUSLIM 
ASSOCIATION

----Original Message Follows----
From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] gang forum flier
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 22:13:19 -0000

matt,

didnt get the attachment.

what is the "onceinalifetime event"?

cliff


 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com,
 >aspirito70@..., bayewilson@..., bscott@...,
 >rbender65@..., artes21@..., Funkhouser@...,
 >chrisrp22@..., mcrockford@..., citruswar@...,
 >djbender@..., subverter@..., emilio@...,
 >Groovemeister007@..., lknesta@..., kmyers@...,
 >OH_G@..., kvt@..., lknesta@...,
 >marcosxh@..., msda_msmith@..., MeadHajduk@...,
 >hajdukmi@..., NatBender@..., nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com,
 >ngorfinkle@..., njfo@yahoogroups.com, pwhalen@...,
 >shorepaulie@..., richc@..., illbread@...,
 >jmluceno@..., tdegloma@..., traceyx@...,
 >xavier.hansen@...
 >Subject: [nbpc] gang forum flier
 >Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 16:32:44
 >
 >Fowarded from B.N.F.
 >(Please let me know if the fler attachment fails...)
 >-Matt
 >
 >----Original Message Follows----
 >From: "Trevor Phillips" <tphillipsjr-1@...>
 >Reply-To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
 >To: "Alexandre, Reynaldine \(Exchange\)" <RALEXANDRE@...>
 >Subject: [motherlandcollective] gang forum flier
 >Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:16:15 -0400
 >
 >Please forward, this is a once in a lifetime event.
 >-Trev
 >
 >   gang forum flier
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________
 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 >
 >
 >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 >

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Post ID:1625
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-08 10:36:23
Subject:Clearwater Festival Reclaiming Pacifica -PARTICIPATE
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: RBender65@...
To: efsutton@..., redlyn@..., Friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Clearwater Festival Reclaiming Pacifica 
-PARTICIPATE
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:52:46 EDT

Clearwater Festival Reclaiming Pacifica: Participate

WBAI-in-Exile will have a stage at this foremost environmental festival June
16 & 17, 10 a.m. to dusk on the shores of the Hudson River, 
Croton-on-Hudson,
www.clearwater.org.

Over 90 performers on five stages perform a blend of contemporary, ethnic 
and
traditional music and dance, from blues to rock, funk to gospel, bluegrass 
to
cajun. And lots for children of all ages.

Concerned Friends of WBAI in its splendid geographic and other diversity and
The Pacifica Campaign have two tables for literature and sales of products -
attractive union-made t-shirts, buttons, bumper stickers, books,-  hopefully
to many of the 10000 Festiviants.

JOIN US PLEASE. We need a slew of volunteers to staff the tables and the
Radio-in-Exile.

General Advance Price is $25 for one day, $35 for both days, student, Senior
and PWD discounts. Children 12 and under FREE - 1-800-67-SLOOP.

If you will be attending and are willing to volunteer at least 90 minutes,
please so inform Bob Bender - 908-755-5846, RBender65@... .Do you have a
van so you can help transport material?

RECLAIM PACIFICA, WBAI AND THE HUDSON RIVER.  OUR STATION, OUR RIVER


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1626
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-08 11:56:35
Subject:HELP w/ HOUSING PROJECT at UNITED NATIONS
Message:

(sorry for multiple copies)


Folks- I am writing to invite you this Saturday morning, as a group of NJIT 
architecture students, Newark grammer school kids, and community activists 
assist an international contingent representing nations from India, 
Zimbabwe, South Africa, UK, etc. who are part of an organized effort to 
develop homes and communities for & with the 'poorest of the poor' of 
underdeveloped nations.

For this past week, I have been working hand in hand with members of 
Shack/Slum Dwellers International, Mahila Milan (Women United) and SPARC 
(...Area Resource Centers), to construct and erect two full scale models of 
a proposed settlement home and a public toilet in the lobby of the UN 
General Assembly building (under the watchful eye of a suspendid Sputnik, I 
might add!).

Now that the convention is coming to a close, we have the difficult task of 
dismantling these structures and transporting them back across the Hudson 
River where they will be reassembled in the Gallery of the NJ School of 
Architecture at NJIT for further exhibition.

It has been a priceless experience to work with people who, with nothing to 
lose, have come halfway around the world and unabashedly taken over the 
lobby of the UN to draw attention to the dire need for housing and basic 
facilities they share with so many.  At first extremely aprehensive of us, 
the staff and security gradually came to embrace this project and soon 
couldn't do enough to help us accomplish what seemed an impossible mission.  
All of our work culminated at Tuesday evening's innauguration when their 
leader, Jokin, was pointed out for special recognition by the head of the UN 
Habitat Commission, (the housing equivelant of the UN Human Rights 
Commission) and UN Chairman, Kofi Anan, stopped by for a tour of our models.

And for those architecture students willing to become involved in this 
effort, it is a tremendous opportunity to begin to understand how beautiful 
designs can develop out of objective conditions and the needs of people 
through an open dialogue with the community itself.  These are principles 
that we can bring back into the studio with us to challenge the strict and 
limiting adherance to the purely subjective abstraction and form-for-form's 
sake that dominates the current academic process.

For all willing and able bodies, please meet with us at the rear enterance 
of the NJIT Architecture Building (Front faces MLK Blvd & Warren St, Newark) 
9AM Saturday morning, June 9.  If you can't make the morning, feel free to 
stop by the Architecture building in the afternoon to help reassemble the 
panels.

Thanks all, Matthew Smith (973) 824-2949 for more info.


(Carlo, Seb, & others, can you please foward this to the group list and any 
other interested parties, as hotmail has been inconveniently deleting 
pertinent files from my over-the-limit account)


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1627
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-08 17:06:42
Subject:Sarafem: why the Right is truly unhealthy
Message:

Here are some notes I cooked up to complement the article on Sarafem (Prozac 
for women) that Cliff sent out.  Below my writing is the original article.  
I don't know where to credit the article to: can someone attribute it?  Paul

                            ------------
>
>This "new" pre-menstrual disorder and "new" Prozac medication to treat 
>"affected" women really sounds like the old "disorder" called HYSTERIA by 
>none other than Freud himself, that coke-sniffing misogynist.
>
>That's not an accident:  the history of psychiatry, pharmaceuticals and 
>authoritarian governance is a broken record.  Read on...
>
>This trend dates back to the origins of Psychiatry, which has its 
>ultimately groundings in the German chemical industry.
>This imperialist tool helped vault the German economy (check out the 
>relations of big industry to Kaiser, Bismarck, Hitler) into a pivotal 
>strategic position among nations.
>
>The chemical industry is the basis of the pharmaceutical industry, which 
>has always used psychiatry's authority to sell its poisons.
>
>The field of psychiatry was formed in Germany in the 30s or 40s, I'm not 
>sure which----it was/became an effective method for pharmaceutical 
>companies to market their drugs.  The legal drugs industry is consistently 
>the most profitable corporate sector for years now.
>
>Enter the pill-pushers.
>
>The psychiatrists came up with the diagnostic manual called DSM to 
>"standardize" the maladies they were allegedly addressing.  DSM definitely 
>has connections to Nazi doctors, many of whom emigrated to the US after 
>WWII.
>
>Basically DSM is still the standard, updated into its fifth edition not so 
>long ago.  It seems that DSM's main purpose is to classify psychological 
>phenomena and social behaviors (ones that usually reduce worker 
>productivity) as aberrant, attributing their causes to the oft-heard 
>"chemical inbalances", but never to social problems.

So a new diagnosis gets entered into the DSM and how else is it treated?  
With legal prescription drugs, of course.

It just so happens that Prozac has over 100 contraindications and side 
effects, including the symptoms it's supposed to treat. No joke.

But it'll be swallowed by millions of poor women who simply want relief from 
physical and emotional symptoms which are by and large caused by the 
poisoned diet of processed sugars, beauty chemicals, environmental toxins, 
unhealthy work and life arrangements, etc., that plague most of us.

So the food and drugs industries and healthcare professionals are all 
culpable for enhancing the slowdeath cycle of violence against the womyn in 
our lives.

                       -----------------
What are the political ramifications?

"Blame the individual" is the ideological component of this push to medicate 
women.  this marketing scheme, corporate patent maneuvering to protect 
super-profits, revolving door for pharmaceutical corps.' agent in and out of 
the very regulatory agencies which govern their businesses::::these are 
parts of the highly polished mechanism which is meant to sell us "health".  
The insurance companies, insurance lawyers, scamming hospital conglomerates, 
authoritarian zero-tolerance zealots, Right wing politicians, etc., all 
benefit from this system.






>>Gift or gimmick?
>>
>>                      Lilly says Sarafem will help ease a severe
>>                      premenstrual ailment. Critics call the drug -- 
>>Prozac by another name -- a profit ploy
>>
>>                      These are the qualities Sarafem, a new name
>among
>>prescription drugs,
>>                      is supposed to create in women who suffer from
>a
>>little-known ailment
>>                      called PMDD, or premenstrual dysphoric
>disorder, a
>>variant of
>>                      premenstrual syndrome.
>>
>>                      The medicine, approved by regulators last year,
>is
>>being widely promoted
>>                      by its manufacturer, Eli Lilly & Co., as a
>godsend
>>to menstruating women
>>                      who otherwise would experience severe mood changes, 
>>sadness and
>>                      irritability.
>>
>>                      If only it were that simple.
>>
>>                      A chorus of doctors and insurers say Sarafem is 
>>little more than a cleverly
>>                      timed marketing ploy, because the drug is
>really a
>>renamed version of
>>                      Prozac. The patent on the blockbuster
>depression
>>medicine expires this
>>                      summer, and Lilly is scrambling to compensate
>for
>>sales that will be lost to
>>                      cheaper generics.
>>
>>                      Fueling the debate is a controversy over PMDD 
>>itself. Only 5 percent of
>>                      women may experience PMDD, which some psychiatrists 
>>believe is
>>                      questionable ailment. As a result, critics say Lilly 
>>is stigmatizing women by
>>                      suggesting they suffer from a mental illness
>each
>>month. Rather than
>>                      demonstrating a genuine interest in women's health, 
>>they charge Lilly's
>>                      move underscores the lengths to which drug
>makers
>>will go to protect
>>                      profits.
>>
>>                      "Lilly has done the wrong thing. Calling it Sarafem 
>>is deceptive. It's sort of
>>                      like a little white lie," said Mickey Smith, 
>>director of the Center for
>>                      Pharmaceutical Management and Marketing at the 
>>University of
>>                      Mississippi. "There's an insidious element in this. 
>>"They ought to just say
>>                      they've found a new way to use Prozac."
>>
>>                      For its part, the Indianapolis-based drug maker 
>>maintains it has done
>>                      nothing wrong. Sarafem was designed in response
>to
>>requests from
>>                      women and their doctors who were seeking assistance 
>>in treating a
>>                      little-understood ailment, according to Laura 
>>Miller, a Lilly spokeswoman.
>>
>>                      "PMDD is an underrecognized and undertreated 
>>disorder. Women have
>>                      told us for years that they've been told it's 
>>something they have to live
>>                      with or it's all in their heads," she said.
>Miller
>>also noted that there are
>>                      other instances in which more than one
>trademark
>>exists for the same
>>                      drug being used to treat different ailments.
>>
>>                      Nonetheless, Lilly faces a huge dilemma when it 
>>comes to Prozac, which
>>                      generated $2.6 billion in sales last year.
>Unless
>>Lilly wins a court battle
>>                      over patents, which Wall Street seems to think
>is
>>unlikely, Prozac sales
>>                      are forecast to drop by one-third next year, 
>>according to Hemant Shah, a
>>                      securities analyst who follows the drug
>industry.
>>
>>                      By recasting Prozac as a new drug, though,
>Lilly
>>stands to gain if doctors
>>                      write prescriptions specifically for Sarafem. Right 
>>now, each drug costs
>>                      nearly $3 a day for a month's supply. But as
>soon
>>as a generic is
>>                      available, the cost of Prozac is likely to drop
>by
>>as much as 70 percent,
>>                      according to the drug industry's usual rule of 
>>thumb.
>>
>>                      However, thanks to quirks in insurance
>coverage,
>>Sarafem would
>>                      continue to command a higher price that will be paid 
>>by insurers, at least
>>                      those insurers that agree to underwrite the 
>>medication. Under this
>>                      scenario, Lilly may be able to generate more revenue 
>>than the
>>                      Indianapolis drug maker might otherwise if it hadn't 
>>conceived Sarafem.
>>
>>                      "The whole reason they did this is to keep
>sales
>>up," said Terry Leach,
>>                      director of pharmacy services at Horizon Blue Cross 
>>and Blue Shield of
>>                      New Jersey.
>>
>>                      If a doctor writes a prescription for Sarafem,
>the
>>pharmacist can't fill it with
>>                      a generic Prozac unless they call the doctor
>and
>>get permission to switch,
>>                      he said. For that reason, Leach said, Lilly has 
>>incentive to price Sarafem
>>                      as a branded product.
>>
>>                      Of course, not every insurer plans to go along. 
>>WellPoint Health
>>                      Networks, a large health-maintenance
>organization
>>based in Thousands
>>                      Oaks, Calif., doesn't plan to cover the cost of 
>>either Sarafem or Prozac
>>                      once the generic version becomes available this 
>>summer, according to
>>                      Rob Siedman, the company's chief pharmacy
>officer.
>>
>>                      Coverage is an issue for others, too. The
>Health
>>Care Payers Coalition of
>>                      New Jersey, a nonprofit buyers consortium that 
>>represents self-funded
>>                      businesses and labor health plans, recently 
>>denounced Lilly for
>>                      aggressively promoting Sarafem. The group's 
>>officials worry that a
>>                      high-priced drug will be too readily prescribed for 
>>women who do not need
>>                      it.
>>
>>                      "This is going to get a lot of women taking Prozac, 
>>a psychotropic drug
>>                      that effects the brain and has side effects,"
>said
>>David Knowlton, a former
>>                      New Jersey health commissioner and coalition 
>>lobbyist. "I'm not saying
>>                      price isn't an issue, but we're seeing an escalation 
>>in their marketing,
>>                      which tends to drive people to a drug."
>>
>>                      Indeed, Lilly's marketing has been aggressive.
>>
>>                      From August, when the Food and Drug
>Administration
>>approved this new
>>                      use of Prozac, through January, the drug maker spent 
>>$17 million to
>>                      promote it to consumers, according to
>Competitive
>>Media Reporting.
>>                      During the same period, an additional $16
>million
>>was spent to promote it
>>                      to doctors and in medical journals, according
>to
>>IMS Health, a
>>                      market-research firm.
>>
>>                      Within a few months of launching Sarafem,
>Lilly's
>>advertising ran afoul of
>>                      regulators. The FDA cited the drug maker for running 
>>a television ad that
>>                      was "misleading, lacking in fair balance and in 
>>violation" of federal law,
>>                      according to a letter sent last November by the 
>>agency to Lilly officials.
>>
>>                      The 60-second ad showed a frustrated woman
>trying
>>to pull a shopping
>>                      cart out of a tangled group of carts in front
>of a
>>supermarket. The ad then
>>                      said: "Think it's PMS? It could be PMDD," but
>it
>>never distinguished
>>                      between the two illnesses or specifically
>defined
>>PMDD. The FDA
>>                      complained the ad "trivializes the seriousness
>of
>>PMDD."
>>
>>                      The ad campaign, which has been prominent in women's 
>>magazines,
>>                      already has had an effect. Between September
>and
>>February, the
>>                      number of prescriptions written by doctors for 
>>Sarafem increased
>>                      sevenfold, while the number of prescriptions written 
>>for Prozac declined,
>>                      according to IMS Health.
>>
>>                      This trend worries Althea O'Shaughnessy, a Princeton 
>>gynecologist and
>>                      reproductive endocrinologist. She believes too many 
>>women may react to
>>                      the Sarafem ads by asking their doctors to
>write
>>prescriptions. But she
>>                      worries that such requests may be inappropriate 
>>because most women
>>                      never experience PMDD.
>>
>>                      "The ads make it seem that you just take the
>drug
>>and all the problems
>>                      go away," O'Shaughnessy said. "I worry that 
>>physicians will prescribe it
>>                      because of patient demand. But it's not a
>wonder
>>drug or a cure-all. And
>>                      only a very small percentage of women even
>suffer
>>from PMDD. Even
>>                      PMS is a very loose term for symptoms."
>>
>>                      The controversy over PMDD was never fully
>settled
>>by the American
>>                      Psychiatric Association. The organization,
>which
>>oversees diagnoses, lists
>>                      the ailment in both the appendix and the main 
>>section of a widely cited
>>                      compendium of disorders called the Diagnostic
>and
>>Standards Manual IV,
>>                      which is the equivalent of the Bible among
>mental-
>>health specialists.
>>
>>                      But a listing in the appendix is reserved for a 
>>diagnosis lacking sufficient
>>                      evidence for validity, said Sally Severino, a former 
>>professor of psychiatry
>>                      at the University of New Mexico School of
>Medicine
>>and a member of a
>>                      specially convened APA round table that, in
>1998,
>>was held to settle the
>>                      PMDD debate.
>>
>>                      "The real question is whether PMDD is a valid 
>>diagnosis. If it is, you
>>                      should be able to prove it in some way," she
>said.
>>"But we can't ever
>>                      seem to get any consistency about what symptoms 
>>should qualify for this
>>                      diagnosis.
>>
>>                      "It's all very confusing. And by listing it in both 
>>places, the APA is talking
>>                      out both sides of its mouth."
>>
>>                      Ed Silverman covers the drug industry and can
>be
>>reached at (973)
>>                      392-1542 or esilverman@s...
>>
>>                           Subscriptions & Contacts | Archives | Personals 
>>| Obituaries
>>
>>                            � 2001 The Star-Ledger. Used by NJ.com
>with
>>permission.
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1628
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-10 12:13:50
Subject:Re: [nbpc] HELP w/ HOUSING PROJECT at UNITED NATIONS
Message:

great project, matt.
keep it up!

cliff


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: unlockingexits@..., bigjuba@..., kvt@..., 
>nkrajkiewcz@..., rjthomas@..., shojreh@..., 
>vspirito@..., nshamberger@..., acruz@..., drw@..., 
>nsprite1@..., gcoleman@..., lvivenzio@..., 
>dbutler@..., tbaratta@..., rrichards@..., 
>barcliff@..., oftik@..., asela@..., 
>mahetzel@..., maharret@..., aspirito70@..., 
>ddazzo@..., rsquared@..., bayewilson@..., 
>bscott@..., billcherry@..., rbender65@..., 
>CXC3251@..., Funkhouser@..., chrisrp22@..., 
>Clifford.Smith@..., drovics@..., emilio@..., 
>jfortun845@..., nia7@..., locicero@..., 
>renren59@..., MeadHajduk@..., essenjovu@..., 
>marcosxh@..., msda_msmith@..., pwhalen@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, njfo@yahoogroups.com, 
>traceyx@...
>Subject: [nbpc] HELP w/ HOUSING PROJECT at UNITED NATIONS
>Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 15:56:35
>
>(sorry for multiple copies)
>
>
>Folks- I am writing to invite you this Saturday morning, as a group of NJIT
>architecture students, Newark grammer school kids, and community activists
>assist an international contingent representing nations from India,
>Zimbabwe, South Africa, UK, etc. who are part of an organized effort to
>develop homes and communities for & with the 'poorest of the poor' of
>underdeveloped nations.
>
>For this past week, I have been working hand in hand with members of
>Shack/Slum Dwellers International, Mahila Milan (Women United) and SPARC
>(...Area Resource Centers), to construct and erect two full scale models of
>a proposed settlement home and a public toilet in the lobby of the UN
>General Assembly building (under the watchful eye of a suspendid Sputnik, I
>might add!).
>
>Now that the convention is coming to a close, we have the difficult task of
>dismantling these structures and transporting them back across the Hudson
>River where they will be reassembled in the Gallery of the NJ School of
>Architecture at NJIT for further exhibition.
>
>It has been a priceless experience to work with people who, with nothing to
>lose, have come halfway around the world and unabashedly taken over the
>lobby of the UN to draw attention to the dire need for housing and basic
>facilities they share with so many.  At first extremely aprehensive of us,
>the staff and security gradually came to embrace this project and soon
>couldn't do enough to help us accomplish what seemed an impossible mission.
>All of our work culminated at Tuesday evening's innauguration when their
>leader, Jokin, was pointed out for special recognition by the head of the 
>UN
>Habitat Commission, (the housing equivelant of the UN Human Rights
>Commission) and UN Chairman, Kofi Anan, stopped by for a tour of our 
>models.
>
>And for those architecture students willing to become involved in this
>effort, it is a tremendous opportunity to begin to understand how beautiful
>designs can develop out of objective conditions and the needs of people
>through an open dialogue with the community itself.  These are principles
>that we can bring back into the studio with us to challenge the strict and
>limiting adherance to the purely subjective abstraction and form-for-form's
>sake that dominates the current academic process.
>
>For all willing and able bodies, please meet with us at the rear enterance
>of the NJIT Architecture Building (Front faces MLK Blvd & Warren St, 
>Newark)
>9AM Saturday morning, June 9.  If you can't make the morning, feel free to
>stop by the Architecture building in the afternoon to help reassemble the
>panels.
>
>Thanks all, Matthew Smith (973) 824-2949 for more info.
>
>
>(Carlo, Seb, & others, can you please foward this to the group list and any
>other interested parties, as hotmail has been inconveniently deleting
>pertinent files from my over-the-limit account)
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1629
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-10 12:22:14
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Sarafem: why the Right is truly unhealthy
Message:

good work, paul.

the credit is at the end of the article.  it was front page, business 
section, last week.

cliff


>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Sarafem: why the Right is truly unhealthy
>Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 21:06:42 -0000
>
>Here are some notes I cooked up to complement the article on Sarafem 
>(Prozac
>for women) that Cliff sent out.  Below my writing is the original article.
>I don't know where to credit the article to: can someone attribute it?  
>Paul
>
>                             ------------
> >
> >This "new" pre-menstrual disorder and "new" Prozac medication to treat
> >"affected" women really sounds like the old "disorder" called HYSTERIA by
> >none other than Freud himself, that coke-sniffing misogynist.
> >
> >That's not an accident:  the history of psychiatry, pharmaceuticals and
> >authoritarian governance is a broken record.  Read on...
> >
> >This trend dates back to the origins of Psychiatry, which has its
> >ultimately groundings in the German chemical industry.
> >This imperialist tool helped vault the German economy (check out the
> >relations of big industry to Kaiser, Bismarck, Hitler) into a pivotal
> >strategic position among nations.
> >
> >The chemical industry is the basis of the pharmaceutical industry, which
> >has always used psychiatry's authority to sell its poisons.
> >
> >The field of psychiatry was formed in Germany in the 30s or 40s, I'm not
> >sure which----it was/became an effective method for pharmaceutical
> >companies to market their drugs.  The legal drugs industry is 
>consistently
> >the most profitable corporate sector for years now.
> >
> >Enter the pill-pushers.
> >
> >The psychiatrists came up with the diagnostic manual called DSM to
> >"standardize" the maladies they were allegedly addressing.  DSM 
>definitely
> >has connections to Nazi doctors, many of whom emigrated to the US after
> >WWII.
> >
> >Basically DSM is still the standard, updated into its fifth edition not 
>so
> >long ago.  It seems that DSM's main purpose is to classify psychological
> >phenomena and social behaviors (ones that usually reduce worker
> >productivity) as aberrant, attributing their causes to the oft-heard
> >"chemical inbalances", but never to social problems.
>
>So a new diagnosis gets entered into the DSM and how else is it treated?
>With legal prescription drugs, of course.
>
>It just so happens that Prozac has over 100 contraindications and side
>effects, including the symptoms it's supposed to treat. No joke.
>
>But it'll be swallowed by millions of poor women who simply want relief 
>from
>physical and emotional symptoms which are by and large caused by the
>poisoned diet of processed sugars, beauty chemicals, environmental toxins,
>unhealthy work and life arrangements, etc., that plague most of us.
>
>So the food and drugs industries and healthcare professionals are all
>culpable for enhancing the slowdeath cycle of violence against the womyn in
>our lives.
>
>                        -----------------
>What are the political ramifications?
>
>"Blame the individual" is the ideological component of this push to 
>medicate
>women.  this marketing scheme, corporate patent maneuvering to protect
>super-profits, revolving door for pharmaceutical corps.' agent in and out 
>of
>the very regulatory agencies which govern their businesses::::these are
>parts of the highly polished mechanism which is meant to sell us "health".
>The insurance companies, insurance lawyers, scamming hospital 
>conglomerates,
>authoritarian zero-tolerance zealots, Right wing politicians, etc., all
>benefit from this system.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>Gift or gimmick?
> >>
> >>                      Lilly says Sarafem will help ease a severe
> >>                      premenstrual ailment. Critics call the drug --
> >>Prozac by another name -- a profit ploy
> >>
> >>                      These are the qualities Sarafem, a new name
> >among
> >>prescription drugs,
> >>                      is supposed to create in women who suffer from
> >a
> >>little-known ailment
> >>                      called PMDD, or premenstrual dysphoric
> >disorder, a
> >>variant of
> >>                      premenstrual syndrome.
> >>
> >>                      The medicine, approved by regulators last year,
> >is
> >>being widely promoted
> >>                      by its manufacturer, Eli Lilly & Co., as a
> >godsend
> >>to menstruating women
> >>                      who otherwise would experience severe mood 
>changes,
> >>sadness and
> >>                      irritability.
> >>
> >>                      If only it were that simple.
> >>
> >>                      A chorus of doctors and insurers say Sarafem is
> >>little more than a cleverly
> >>                      timed marketing ploy, because the drug is
> >really a
> >>renamed version of
> >>                      Prozac. The patent on the blockbuster
> >depression
> >>medicine expires this
> >>                      summer, and Lilly is scrambling to compensate
> >for
> >>sales that will be lost to
> >>                      cheaper generics.
> >>
> >>                      Fueling the debate is a controversy over PMDD
> >>itself. Only 5 percent of
> >>                      women may experience PMDD, which some 
>psychiatrists
> >>believe is
> >>                      questionable ailment. As a result, critics say 
>Lilly
> >>is stigmatizing women by
> >>                      suggesting they suffer from a mental illness
> >each
> >>month. Rather than
> >>                      demonstrating a genuine interest in women's 
>health,
> >>they charge Lilly's
> >>                      move underscores the lengths to which drug
> >makers
> >>will go to protect
> >>                      profits.
> >>
> >>                      "Lilly has done the wrong thing. Calling it 
>Sarafem
> >>is deceptive. It's sort of
> >>                      like a little white lie," said Mickey Smith,
> >>director of the Center for
> >>                      Pharmaceutical Management and Marketing at the
> >>University of
> >>                      Mississippi. "There's an insidious element in 
>this.
> >>"They ought to just say
> >>                      they've found a new way to use Prozac."
> >>
> >>                      For its part, the Indianapolis-based drug maker
> >>maintains it has done
> >>                      nothing wrong. Sarafem was designed in response
> >to
> >>requests from
> >>                      women and their doctors who were seeking 
>assistance
> >>in treating a
> >>                      little-understood ailment, according to Laura
> >>Miller, a Lilly spokeswoman.
> >>
> >>                      "PMDD is an underrecognized and undertreated
> >>disorder. Women have
> >>                      told us for years that they've been told it's
> >>something they have to live
> >>                      with or it's all in their heads," she said.
> >Miller
> >>also noted that there are
> >>                      other instances in which more than one
> >trademark
> >>exists for the same
> >>                      drug being used to treat different ailments.
> >>
> >>                      Nonetheless, Lilly faces a huge dilemma when it
> >>comes to Prozac, which
> >>                      generated $2.6 billion in sales last year.
> >Unless
> >>Lilly wins a court battle
> >>                      over patents, which Wall Street seems to think
> >is
> >>unlikely, Prozac sales
> >>                      are forecast to drop by one-third next year,
> >>according to Hemant Shah, a
> >>                      securities analyst who follows the drug
> >industry.
> >>
> >>                      By recasting Prozac as a new drug, though,
> >Lilly
> >>stands to gain if doctors
> >>                      write prescriptions specifically for Sarafem. 
>Right
> >>now, each drug costs
> >>                      nearly $3 a day for a month's supply. But as
> >soon
> >>as a generic is
> >>                      available, the cost of Prozac is likely to drop
> >by
> >>as much as 70 percent,
> >>                      according to the drug industry's usual rule of
> >>thumb.
> >>
> >>                      However, thanks to quirks in insurance
> >coverage,
> >>Sarafem would
> >>                      continue to command a higher price that will be 
>paid
> >>by insurers, at least
> >>                      those insurers that agree to underwrite the
> >>medication. Under this
> >>                      scenario, Lilly may be able to generate more 
>revenue
> >>than the
> >>                      Indianapolis drug maker might otherwise if it 
>hadn't
> >>conceived Sarafem.
> >>
> >>                      "The whole reason they did this is to keep
> >sales
> >>up," said Terry Leach,
> >>                      director of pharmacy services at Horizon Blue 
>Cross
> >>and Blue Shield of
> >>                      New Jersey.
> >>
> >>                      If a doctor writes a prescription for Sarafem,
> >the
> >>pharmacist can't fill it with
> >>                      a generic Prozac unless they call the doctor
> >and
> >>get permission to switch,
> >>                      he said. For that reason, Leach said, Lilly has
> >>incentive to price Sarafem
> >>                      as a branded product.
> >>
> >>                      Of course, not every insurer plans to go along.
> >>WellPoint Health
> >>                      Networks, a large health-maintenance
> >organization
> >>based in Thousands
> >>                      Oaks, Calif., doesn't plan to cover the cost of
> >>either Sarafem or Prozac
> >>                      once the generic version becomes available this
> >>summer, according to
> >>                      Rob Siedman, the company's chief pharmacy
> >officer.
> >>
> >>                      Coverage is an issue for others, too. The
> >Health
> >>Care Payers Coalition of
> >>                      New Jersey, a nonprofit buyers consortium that
> >>represents self-funded
> >>                      businesses and labor health plans, recently
> >>denounced Lilly for
> >>                      aggressively promoting Sarafem. The group's
> >>officials worry that a
> >>                      high-priced drug will be too readily prescribed 
>for
> >>women who do not need
> >>                      it.
> >>
> >>                      "This is going to get a lot of women taking 
>Prozac,
> >>a psychotropic drug
> >>                      that effects the brain and has side effects,"
> >said
> >>David Knowlton, a former
> >>                      New Jersey health commissioner and coalition
> >>lobbyist. "I'm not saying
> >>                      price isn't an issue, but we're seeing an 
>escalation
> >>in their marketing,
> >>                      which tends to drive people to a drug."
> >>
> >>                      Indeed, Lilly's marketing has been aggressive.
> >>
> >>                      From August, when the Food and Drug
> >Administration
> >>approved this new
> >>                      use of Prozac, through January, the drug maker 
>spent
> >>$17 million to
> >>                      promote it to consumers, according to
> >Competitive
> >>Media Reporting.
> >>                      During the same period, an additional $16
> >million
> >>was spent to promote it
> >>                      to doctors and in medical journals, according
> >to
> >>IMS Health, a
> >>                      market-research firm.
> >>
> >>                      Within a few months of launching Sarafem,
> >Lilly's
> >>advertising ran afoul of
> >>                      regulators. The FDA cited the drug maker for 
>running
> >>a television ad that
> >>                      was "misleading, lacking in fair balance and in
> >>violation" of federal law,
> >>                      according to a letter sent last November by the
> >>agency to Lilly officials.
> >>
> >>                      The 60-second ad showed a frustrated woman
> >trying
> >>to pull a shopping
> >>                      cart out of a tangled group of carts in front
> >of a
> >>supermarket. The ad then
> >>                      said: "Think it's PMS? It could be PMDD," but
> >it
> >>never distinguished
> >>                      between the two illnesses or specifically
> >defined
> >>PMDD. The FDA
> >>                      complained the ad "trivializes the seriousness
> >of
> >>PMDD."
> >>
> >>                      The ad campaign, which has been prominent in 
>women's
> >>magazines,
> >>                      already has had an effect. Between September
> >and
> >>February, the
> >>                      number of prescriptions written by doctors for
> >>Sarafem increased
> >>                      sevenfold, while the number of prescriptions 
>written
> >>for Prozac declined,
> >>                      according to IMS Health.
> >>
> >>                      This trend worries Althea O'Shaughnessy, a 
>Princeton
> >>gynecologist and
> >>                      reproductive endocrinologist. She believes too 
>many
> >>women may react to
> >>                      the Sarafem ads by asking their doctors to
> >write
> >>prescriptions. But she
> >>                      worries that such requests may be inappropriate
> >>because most women
> >>                      never experience PMDD.
> >>
> >>                      "The ads make it seem that you just take the
> >drug
> >>and all the problems
> >>                      go away," O'Shaughnessy said. "I worry that
> >>physicians will prescribe it
> >>                      because of patient demand. But it's not a
> >wonder
> >>drug or a cure-all. And
> >>                      only a very small percentage of women even
> >suffer
> >>from PMDD. Even
> >>                      PMS is a very loose term for symptoms."
> >>
> >>                      The controversy over PMDD was never fully
> >settled
> >>by the American
> >>                      Psychiatric Association. The organization,
> >which
> >>oversees diagnoses, lists
> >>                      the ailment in both the appendix and the main
> >>section of a widely cited
> >>                      compendium of disorders called the Diagnostic
> >and
> >>Standards Manual IV,
> >>                      which is the equivalent of the Bible among
> >mental-
> >>health specialists.
> >>
> >>                      But a listing in the appendix is reserved for a
> >>diagnosis lacking sufficient
> >>                      evidence for validity, said Sally Severino, a 
>former
> >>professor of psychiatry
> >>                      at the University of New Mexico School of
> >Medicine
> >>and a member of a
> >>                      specially convened APA round table that, in
> >1998,
> >>was held to settle the
> >>                      PMDD debate.
> >>
> >>                      "The real question is whether PMDD is a valid
> >>diagnosis. If it is, you
> >>                      should be able to prove it in some way," she
> >said.
> >>"But we can't ever
> >>                      seem to get any consistency about what symptoms
> >>should qualify for this
> >>                      diagnosis.
> >>
> >>                      "It's all very confusing. And by listing it in 
>both
> >>places, the APA is talking
> >>                      out both sides of its mouth."
> >>
> >>                      Ed Silverman covers the drug industry and can
> >be
> >>reached at (973)
> >>                      392-1542 or esilverman@s...
> >>
> >>                           Subscriptions & Contacts | Archives | 
>Personals
> >>| Obituaries
> >>
> >>                            � 2001 The Star-Ledger. Used by NJ.com
> >with
> >>permission.
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
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>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1630
Sender:citruswar@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-10 23:10:14
Subject:Re: [nbpc] 2bright and skunk soaries next!!!!
Message:

I'm glad I'm no longer connected to you or your sadistic sarcastic remarks that have no meaning or relevance in today's intellectual society.

You are a wanna-be fascist almost revolutionist that wouldn't know the proper end of the revolutionary gun or how to fire it.  Who'd want to follow you anyway!  You're useless!

I no longer wish for you to use my name, say my name or speak my name!  As far as I am concerned, you are a nightmare that I'm just waiting to go away!

See ya!

Curtis L. Warren, Sr.






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1631
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-11 05:54:28
Subject:Fwd: [coalitionforjustice] nazi power rises in italy
Message:



>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampampaign@egroups.com, rugreens@egroups.com, 
>coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] nazi power rises in italy
>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 05:45:55 -0400
>
>   JUNE 11, 01:56 EST
>
>Italy's Berlusconi to Be Sworn In
>
>By NICOLE WINFIELD
>Associated Press Writer
>
>ROME (AP) � Silvio Berlusconi named key coalition allies to his new 
>Cabinet,
>including the head of the once-fascist National
>Alliance and the leader of the often xenophobic Northern League.
>
>The media baron assumed the premiership Sunday, nearly a month after his
>center-right coalition defeated the incumbent
>center-left in parliamentary elections on promises of tax cuts, higher
>pensions and more jobs.
>
>His list of 25 nominees � in the works for weeks as he tried to please his
>coalition members � was approved quickly by
>President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi during a 20-minute meeting at the
>presidential palace.
>
>Berlusconi was to be formally sworn in on Monday, the start of a busy week
>for the 64-year-old former cruise ship entertainer.
>He will attend a NATO meeting in Brussels on Wednesday and a EU summit in
>Goteborg, Sweden, the following two days.
>
>The premier must then put his government to the mandatory vote of 
>confidence
>in both houses of parliament, where the
>conservatives won solid majority in the May 13 elections. The confidence
>vote is not expected before June 18.
>
>``Italians are expecting a lot but the team I've presented today is on top
>of the situation,'' Berlusconi said. The Cabinet ``can
>ensure innovation, freedom and welfare for all citizens.''
>
>His main conservative allies, Gianfranco Fini of the National Alliance and
>Northern League leader Umberto Bossi, both
>entered the government for the first time. Fini became deputy premier.
>Bossi, who wants the central government to cede
>powers to local bodies, got the Ministry of Reform.
>
>The Northern League also secured two other ministries, including justice.
>
>Bossi, who caused Berlusconi's first government to collapse after seven
>months when he withdrew support, had been vocal
>about securing high posts for himself and his party the second time around.
>
>But he said Sunday he was content with what Berlusconi had decided. ``I am
>happy because it seems to be a government with
>people who have something to say and something to do,'' Bossi said.
>
>Berlusconi's allies have raised some concerns in Europe for their
>anti-immigrant positions. The European Union, however,
>shows no intention of imposing sanctions on Italy as it did on Austria when
>the far-right party of Joerg Haider entered the
>government.
>
>Piero Fassino, who would have been justice minister had the center-left won
>the election, criticized Berlusconi's Cabinet as
>``disappointing and by some aspects also disconcerting.''
>
>Bossi's post should have gone to someone ``reliable and known for being 
>able
>to speak to the whole nation,'' Fassino said. He
>also criticized Berlusconi for not trimming the number of ministers and for
>appointing only two women.
>
>One of Berlusconi's main ministers who is respected in Italy and abroad is
>Renato Ruggiero, former chief of the World Trade
>Organization. As foreign minister, Ruggiero is expected to maintain Italy's
>traditional bipartisan foreign policy.
>
>Many of the key jobs went to Berlusconi's Forza Italia party, which won 30
>percent of the vote in the May 13 elections. Some
>ministers � including Defense Minister Antonio Martino and Economics
>Minister Giulio Tremonti � were old faces from his
>first tenure as premier in 1994.
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1632
Sender:"Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-11 18:16:26
Subject:Re: [nbpc] 2bright and skunk soaries next!!!!
Message:

no room for republicans!




>From: citruswar@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] 2bright and skunk soaries next!!!!
>Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:10:14 EDT
>
>I'm glad I'm no longer connected to you or your sadistic sarcastic remarks 
>that have no meaning or relevance in today's intellectual society.
>
>You are a wanna-be fascist almost revolutionist that wouldn't know the 
>proper end of the revolutionary gun or how to fire it.  Who'd want to 
>follow you anyway!  You're useless!
>
>I no longer wish for you to use my name, say my name or speak my name!  As 
>far as I am concerned, you are a nightmare that I'm just waiting to go 
>away!
>
>See ya!
>
>Curtis L. Warren, Sr.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1633
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-11 22:22:04
Subject:revolutionary democracy & NJ assembly
Message:

saturday june 23 @ NB public library 1:00 - 4:00

forum/discussion on assembly primary:
   -special focus- bury joe egan! move dick barber further left.

unite and organize to build the peoples' democratic workers' party!

two main issues to stomp on egan with:
    1. pro-choice < egan is anti-womens' rights over production >
       egan must be jumped for this position - local democratic machine
       should be held responsible for egan being machine representative
    2. egan is anti-democracy < actively worked against elected board
       bringing NB to 1st place in worst schools in middlesex

invited speakers:
reginald johnson, metuchen naacp
national organization for women NOW representative
other speaker nominations welcome

for more info contact joe smith 732.729.0390 can_bush@...
     Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1634
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-11 22:32:11
Subject:QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Message:


This article from NYTimes.com
has been sent to you by can_bush@....

must continue to hammer bush2 administration!!
revolutionary democracy must demand - step down from republican party Skunk 
soaries and fbright! join the peoples' ranks and the struggle for democracy 
of the majority.

The Backslap Backlash

JOURNAL
By FRANK RICH



Washington is still aghast at how a presumed Bush team player can,
by one dramatic action, expose the sham of an administration's
supposedly invincible people skills and the unfairness of its
policies. But such indeed has been the coup � a "coup of one," as
Trent Lott might say � pulled off by Jenna Bush.

  Had George W. Bush conducted a charm offensive when his daughter
was hospitalized for an emergency appendectomy at Christmas �
rather than fleeing for golf in Boca Grande, Fla. � would she be in
open revolt now? By engaging in two underage-drinking ruses in one
month � a "crime" likely committed by more college students than
not � Jenna Bush has made herself into the No. 1 poster child for
the lack of compassion in her father's conservatism. It's Mr. Bush
who signed the 1997 three-strikes, "zero tolerance" Texas law that
now puts her a margarita away from serving 180 days in jail.

  The press has spent a ton of time debating whether the travails of
the Bush daughters are news. Surely they're as worthy of the cover
of People magazine as James Jeffords is of Newsweek. If anything,
the Jenna story is a confirmation of the Jeffords. A White House
that has been relentlessly marketed as a model of Fortune 500
efficiency and backslapping bonhomie turns out to have minimal
intelligence about the whereabouts of its own party members, let
alone the first children.

  Shouldn't Mr. Jeffords have been kept in tow by all those goofy,
loyalty-inducing presidential nicknames we kept hearing about?
Guess he didn't have one � unless it was "Quirky," the word invoked
by the Bush handlers Ari Fleischer and Karen Hughes to belittle the
senator once he was out the door. On TV, Ms. Hughes has tried to
argue that the Jeffords defection was utterly anomalous because
President Bush has "met with record numbers of members of Congress,
more than any modern president." But besides being both unlikely
(according to historians) and unverifiable (according to the
statistics available at the J.F.K. and F.D.R. presidential
libraries), her claim is also irrelevant. Quality matters, not
quantity. However many meetings there were, the ones that might
matter most � with Mr. Jeffords, John McCain, Tom Daschle and
Lincoln Chafee � were hastily moved to the top of the president's
dance card only in the past two weeks, after it became clear the
Senate was already lost.

  The political incompetence that led to Mr. Jeffords's defection
hardly squares with the prevailing Beltway view of the Bush White
House during its first 100 days. That view, as usual, is best
articulated by Washington's Dean, the pundit David Broder, who in
February gave the new administration high grades for having "a
abinet of C.E.O.'s, made up mainly of men and women who have run
large enterprises." But of course it's exactly the C.E.O.-itis
exemplified by Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul O'Neill that
led the administration to be blindsided, taking the Jeffords
rebellion seriously only days after it had been reported by such
obscure news outlets as CNN. As one veteran of past administrations
and the corporate world puts it: "C.E.O.'s are used to flying their
own planes, seeing only their own subordinates and being
accountable to no one. They are profoundly certain of their own
value system. They have contempt for the public and the press. They
have none of the accountability required of a president of the
United States."

  Such arrogance is the real story of this White House thus far. The
administration proceeds on the belief that no one would possibly
question its wisdom and that anything can be sold with the proper
marketing strategy and enough repetition of an unvarying script. If
the president is known for "reaching out" and "building bridges,"
as we're constantly told, it must be so, even if the Jeffords
fiasco proves it wildly false. If he says it's possible to have a
huge tax cut while building a missile shield and without dipping
into the Social Security and Medicare piggy banks, it must be so,
even if the numbers don't remotely add up. So goes this
cognitive-dissonance presidency.

  ��
  Perhaps it's the ease with which the White House walked over the
Democrats on the way to the tax cut that has accelerated this brand
of subterfuge. These days, with impressive brazenness, almost every
Bush photo op belies what his administration is actually up to.

  � In a five-day period the president appeared at two national
parks, Sequoia and the Everglades, dressed in more earth tones than
Al Gore at his most craven. The message, of course, is that Mr.
Bush likes hugging trees almost as much as he does African-American
schoolchildren. But in fact his environmental record remains
unchanged. He shows no signs of opposing drilling off Florida's
Gulf Coast (though even his brother is against it) or of opposing
the development of a commercial airport not far from the
Everglades' border. The National Parks Conservation Association
gives his record a D thus far, noting that his modest increase in
the parks budget is more for buildings and roads than for
preserving nature.

  � In his commencement address at Notre Dame, among other religious
venues, Mr. Bush has repeatedly praised the power of faith-based
charities. But according to The Washington Post, the administration
very quietly stopped pushing its promised boon to charities in the
tax bill: a deduction for charitable contributions for those
taxpayers who don't itemize on their returns. Not only did the
White House let that provision die to preserve its main goal, a
top-heavy reduction of tax rates, but in fighting for an end to the
estate tax it has also eliminated an added incentive for the
wealthy to donate to charity.

  � In Philadelphia in mid-May, Mr. Bush posed in front of a sea of
police officers to push a plan to hire more prosecutors to enforce
existing gun laws. But three days later Attorney General John
Ashcroft wrote a letter to the National Rifle Association endorsing
an interpretation of the Second Amendment that could in fact gut
existing gun laws. Some of those cops standing behind the president
may also be gutted, for in its budget the administration has asked
for a 17 percent decrease in COPS, the federal program that
provides money for police salaries.

  � Mr. Bush has repeatedly visited various Boys and Girls Clubs,
touting them as an example of how the government can "facilitate
programs" for kids and promote "the universal concept of loving a
neighbor." In his budget, federal money for Boys and Girls Clubs is
eliminated entirely.

  Even the first lady has been enlisted in these bait-and-switch
shenanigans. Laura Bush appeared at a Washington public library in
April to kick off "the Campaign for America's Libraries" � just one
week before her husband's budget cut the federal outlay for
libraries by $39 million.

  Photo ops are nothing new in the modern American presidency, but
didn't they use to occasionally dramatize a president's policies
rather than disguise them? It's now reaching the point that a
smiling Bush appearance blessing any cause, program or habitat is
tantamount to a visit from the angel of death.

  Once Senator Jeffords blew the whistle on the White House's
invincibility, the Beltway establishment started to get at least
some of this picture; the Dean, for one, declared that "almost
overnight" the president had been transformed from an "aspiring
Ronald Reagan" to a potential failure. But in truth Mr. Bush hasn't
changed, it's just the Washington perception of him that has. And
the country, as usual, is ahead of the capital. The new ABC
News/Washington Post poll shows the president's approval rating
sinking to a mediocre 55 percent � even with rebate checks on the
way. The two- point spread favoring Democratic policies over
Republican mimics the election spread between the combined
Gore-Nader vote and the G.O.P. ticket last fall.

  Even Mr. Bush's vow to "change the tone" and be a "uniter, not a
divider" is no longer standing up to scrutiny. With Mr. Lott
declaring "war" on the Democrats, William Bennett calling John
McCain a "crybaby," Larry Craig, an administration ally in the
Senate, labeling Republican moderates as "weak sisters," and Mr.
Jeffords driven to enlisting bodyguards, it's hard to imagine how
the tone could get much worse. Against a backdrop of Republican
"civility" this rancorous, a Democrat as partisan as Tom Daschle
starts to look like Gandhi.


http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/09/opinion/09RICH.html?ex=993201347&ei=&en=679695063d712464>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1635
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-11 23:01:10
Subject:Re: Too Legit to Quit!
Message:

Justices: Religious Clubs Can Meet in Schools

By ANNE GEARAN
.c The Associated Press

WASHINGTON (June 11) - The Supreme Court ruled in a church-state battle 
Monday that religious groups must be allowed to meet in public schools after 
class hours.

In a 6-3 decision that lowered the figurative wall of separation between 
church and state, the justices said a New York public school district must 
let a Christian youth group, the Good News Club, hold after-school meetings 
for grade-school children to pray and study the Bible.

Justice Stephen Breyer, usually a moderate-to-liberal vote on the court, 
joined the five most conservative members - Chief Justice William Rehnquist, 
Sandra Day O'Connor, Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy and Clarence Thomas - in 
partial support of the religious club's request. Justices John Paul Stevens, 
Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter dissented.

The majority found that excluding the club was unconstitutional 
discrimination based on the club's views. Letting the meeting take place 
would not be an unconstitutional government endorsement of religion, the 
court ruled.

The Constitution's First Amendment protects free speech and the free exercise 
of religion, but it also bars government establishment of religion.

The Milford School District in upstate New York had argued that allowing the 
Good News Club to hold what school officials called ''the equivalent of 
religious worship'' at the school would amount to a school endorsement of 
Christianity over other religions.

The Good News Club said the school was discriminating against it based on its 
views.

The youth group's members range from age 5 to 12 and its meetings include 
Bible stories, prayers and teaching children to ''give God first place in 
your life.'' The club has met at a local church since the school denied its 
1996 request to use the school building after 3 p.m. on school days.

Club leader Darleen Fournier cheered the court's ruling and downplayed the 
church-state debate.

''It has nothing to do with school, it's just using a school building after 
hours,'' she said Monday. ''We don't want the government mandating prayer 
over the public address system or something like that.''

Administrators from the Milford school district did not immediately return a 
call seeking comment.

Barry Lynn, director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, 
called the decision a ''terrible mistake.''

''The court's ruling means aggressive fundamentalist evangelists have a new 
way to proselytize school kids.''

The Supreme Court has long wrangled with the question of religion in the 
public schools. The justices banned organized prayer during class hours in 
the early 1960s, and in the past decade banned clergy-led prayer at high 
school graduation ceremonies and student-led prayer at high school football 
games.

But the court also ruled in 1993 that a New York public school must let a 
religious group use its building in the evening to show Christian movies.

In cases involving the use of public money for church-run schools, the 
justices allowed taxpayer-funded computers and remedial help by public school 
teachers at religious schools.

The Milford school has had a policy since 1992 allowing community use of its 
building after class hours for ''social, civic and recreational meetings'' 
and other uses for the community's welfare. The Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and 
4-H Club are among the groups that have met at the school.

The school district's lawyers contended that because the Good News Club's 
members were grade-school age and the meetings would be held immediately 
after school, some children might be lead to believe the school district 
endorsed the club's religious message.

The Good News Club contended the school was discriminating against it while 
allowing other groups such as the Boy Scouts to teach moral values inside the 
school building. A federal judge and the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals 
upheld the school district's policy.

Monday, the Supreme Court reversed that decision and sent the case back to 
the lower court.

By letting other groups use the school after hours, school officials created 
a public forum, the court found.

''When Milford denied the Good News Club access to the school's limited 
public forum on the ground that the club was religious in nature, it 
discriminated against the club because of its religious viewpoint in 
violation of the free-speech clause of the First Amendment,'' Thomas wrote 
for the majority.

 AP-NY-06-11-01 1250EDT

Copyright 2001 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news 
report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed 
without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.  All active 
hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. 






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1636
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-11 23:43:27
Subject:Re: join the people
Message:

fbright's mother should have had an abortion!

joe


>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Too Legit to Quit!
>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:01:10 EDT
>
>Justices: Religious Clubs Can Meet in Schools
>
>By ANNE GEARAN
>.c The Associated Press
>
>WASHINGTON (June 11) - The Supreme Court ruled in a church-state battle
>Monday that religious groups must be allowed to meet in public schools 
>after
>class hours.
>
>In a 6-3 decision that lowered the figurative wall of separation between
>church and state, the justices said a New York public school district must
>let a Christian youth group, the Good News Club, hold after-school meetings
>for grade-school children to pray and study the Bible.
>
>Justice Stephen Breyer, usually a moderate-to-liberal vote on the court,
>joined the five most conservative members - Chief Justice William 
>Rehnquist,
>Sandra Day O'Connor, Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy and Clarence Thomas - 
>in
>partial support of the religious club's request. Justices John Paul 
>Stevens,
>Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter dissented.
>
>The majority found that excluding the club was unconstitutional
>discrimination based on the club's views. Letting the meeting take place
>would not be an unconstitutional government endorsement of religion, the
>court ruled.
>
>The Constitution's First Amendment protects free speech and the free 
>exercise
>of religion, but it also bars government establishment of religion.
>
>The Milford School District in upstate New York had argued that allowing 
>the
>Good News Club to hold what school officials called ''the equivalent of
>religious worship'' at the school would amount to a school endorsement of
>Christianity over other religions.
>
>The Good News Club said the school was discriminating against it based on 
>its
>views.
>
>The youth group's members range from age 5 to 12 and its meetings include
>Bible stories, prayers and teaching children to ''give God first place in
>your life.'' The club has met at a local church since the school denied its
>1996 request to use the school building after 3 p.m. on school days.
>
>Club leader Darleen Fournier cheered the court's ruling and downplayed the
>church-state debate.
>
>''It has nothing to do with school, it's just using a school building after
>hours,'' she said Monday. ''We don't want the government mandating prayer
>over the public address system or something like that.''
>
>Administrators from the Milford school district did not immediately return 
>a
>call seeking comment.
>
>Barry Lynn, director of Americans United for Separation of Church and 
>State,
>called the decision a ''terrible mistake.''
>
>''The court's ruling means aggressive fundamentalist evangelists have a new
>way to proselytize school kids.''
>
>The Supreme Court has long wrangled with the question of religion in the
>public schools. The justices banned organized prayer during class hours in
>the early 1960s, and in the past decade banned clergy-led prayer at high
>school graduation ceremonies and student-led prayer at high school football
>games.
>
>But the court also ruled in 1993 that a New York public school must let a
>religious group use its building in the evening to show Christian movies.
>
>In cases involving the use of public money for church-run schools, the
>justices allowed taxpayer-funded computers and remedial help by public 
>school
>teachers at religious schools.
>
>The Milford school has had a policy since 1992 allowing community use of 
>its
>building after class hours for ''social, civic and recreational meetings''
>and other uses for the community's welfare. The Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and
>4-H Club are among the groups that have met at the school.
>
>The school district's lawyers contended that because the Good News Club's
>members were grade-school age and the meetings would be held immediately
>after school, some children might be lead to believe the school district
>endorsed the club's religious message.
>
>The Good News Club contended the school was discriminating against it while
>allowing other groups such as the Boy Scouts to teach moral values inside 
>the
>school building. A federal judge and the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals
>upheld the school district's policy.
>
>Monday, the Supreme Court reversed that decision and sent the case back to
>the lower court.
>
>By letting other groups use the school after hours, school officials 
>created
>a public forum, the court found.
>
>''When Milford denied the Good News Club access to the school's limited
>public forum on the ground that the club was religious in nature, it
>discriminated against the club because of its religious viewpoint in
>violation of the free-speech clause of the First Amendment,'' Thomas wrote
>for the majority.
>
>  AP-NY-06-11-01 1250EDT
>
>Copyright 2001 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP 
>news
>report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed
>without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.  All active
>hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1637
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-12 01:48:24
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: join the people
Message:

BOL/SWORD DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT. BOL/SWORD DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT
RESOLVE. BOL/SWORD DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT SPEECH. BO/SWORD DOES NOT
HAVE THE RIGHT SPEECH. BOL/SWORD DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT LIVELIHOOD.
BOL/SWORD DOES NOT HAVE RIGHT ACTION. BOL/SWORD DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT
EFFORT. BOL/SWORD DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT MINDFULNESS. BOL/SWORD DOES
NOT HAVE THE RIGHT CONCENTRATION. ALL IN ALL.,BOL/SWORD IS NOT RIGHT FOR
THE PEOPLE.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1638
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-12 02:13:28
Subject:THE CURRENT UNIVERSE HAS EVOLVED THROUGH NATURAL LAW.
Message:

IS BOL/SWORD IRRATIONAL? IS BOL/SWORD PESSIMISTIC? IS BOL/SWORD
NIHILISTIC? IS BOL/SWORD LYING?  IS BOL/SWORD USING ILLICIT DRUGS OR
LIQUOR?
THE PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW!!!







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1639
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-12 03:34:37
Subject:Re: [njfo] QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Message:

HOW DO YOU SEE YOUR FUTURE? UNHEALTHY, BROKE, ALONE, WEARING DIAPERS IN
A NURSING HOME. NO RISK. NO REWARD.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1640
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-12 06:47:48
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: join the people
Message:


Not only is there a room for Republicans ... there's a womb for Republicans, 
Joe!






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1641
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-12 15:57:55
Subject:Re: [NB_CC_TF] revolutionary democracy & NJ assembly
Message:

COME TO TRUE REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY & N. J. ASSEMBLY ISSUES AT THE
GEORGE STREET COO-OP, INC. ON 89 MORRIS STREET IN NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J.
08901

DATE: MONDAY, JUNE 25,2001

TIME: 6:00PM TO 9:00PM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1642
Sender:"Erric L. Zdzchowski" <erricz@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-12 18:34:45
Subject:RE: [nbpc] Re: join the people
Message:

What a mindless response....so here's mine.

Erric Z.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: joseph smith [mailto:can_bush@...]
  Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 11:43 PM
  To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [nbpc] Re: join the people


  fbright's mother should have had an abortion!

  joe


  >From: FBRIGHT123@...
  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  >Subject: [nbpc] Re: Too Legit to Quit!
  >Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:01:10 EDT
  >
  >Justices: Religious Clubs Can Meet in Schools
  >
  >By ANNE GEARAN
  >.c The Associated Press
  >
  >WASHINGTON (June 11) - The Supreme Court ruled in a church-state battle
  >Monday that religious groups must be allowed to meet in public schools
  >after
  >class hours.
  >
  >In a 6-3 decision that lowered the figurative wall of separation between
  >church and state, the justices said a New York public school district
must
  >let a Christian youth group, the Good News Club, hold after-school
meetings
  >for grade-school children to pray and study the Bible.
  >
  >Justice Stephen Breyer, usually a moderate-to-liberal vote on the court,
  >joined the five most conservative members - Chief Justice William
  >Rehnquist,
  >Sandra Day O'Connor, Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy and Clarence
Thomas -
  >in
  >partial support of the religious club's request. Justices John Paul
  >Stevens,
  >Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter dissented.
  >
  >The majority found that excluding the club was unconstitutional
  >discrimination based on the club's views. Letting the meeting take place
  >would not be an unconstitutional government endorsement of religion, the
  >court ruled.
  >
  >The Constitution's First Amendment protects free speech and the free
  >exercise
  >of religion, but it also bars government establishment of religion.
  >
  >The Milford School District in upstate New York had argued that allowing
  >the
  >Good News Club to hold what school officials called ''the equivalent of
  >religious worship'' at the school would amount to a school endorsement of
  >Christianity over other religions.
  >
  >The Good News Club said the school was discriminating against it based on
  >its
  >views.
  >
  >The youth group's members range from age 5 to 12 and its meetings include
  >Bible stories, prayers and teaching children to ''give God first place in
  >your life.'' The club has met at a local church since the school denied
its
  >1996 request to use the school building after 3 p.m. on school days.
  >
  >Club leader Darleen Fournier cheered the court's ruling and downplayed
the
  >church-state debate.
  >
  >''It has nothing to do with school, it's just using a school building
after
  >hours,'' she said Monday. ''We don't want the government mandating prayer
  >over the public address system or something like that.''
  >
  >Administrators from the Milford school district did not immediately
return
  >a
  >call seeking comment.
  >
  >Barry Lynn, director of Americans United for Separation of Church and
  >State,
  >called the decision a ''terrible mistake.''
  >
  >''The court's ruling means aggressive fundamentalist evangelists have a
new
  >way to proselytize school kids.''
  >
  >The Supreme Court has long wrangled with the question of religion in the
  >public schools. The justices banned organized prayer during class hours
in
  >the early 1960s, and in the past decade banned clergy-led prayer at high
  >school graduation ceremonies and student-led prayer at high school
football
  >games.
  >
  >But the court also ruled in 1993 that a New York public school must let a
  >religious group use its building in the evening to show Christian movies.
  >
  >In cases involving the use of public money for church-run schools, the
  >justices allowed taxpayer-funded computers and remedial help by public
  >school
  >teachers at religious schools.
  >
  >The Milford school has had a policy since 1992 allowing community use of
  >its
  >building after class hours for ''social, civic and recreational
meetings''
  >and other uses for the community's welfare. The Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts
and
  >4-H Club are among the groups that have met at the school.
  >
  >The school district's lawyers contended that because the Good News Club's
  >members were grade-school age and the meetings would be held immediately
  >after school, some children might be lead to believe the school district
  >endorsed the club's religious message.
  >
  >The Good News Club contended the school was discriminating against it
while
  >allowing other groups such as the Boy Scouts to teach moral values inside
  >the
  >school building. A federal judge and the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of
Appeals
  >upheld the school district's policy.
  >
  >Monday, the Supreme Court reversed that decision and sent the case back
to
  >the lower court.
  >
  >By letting other groups use the school after hours, school officials
  >created
  >a public forum, the court found.
  >
  >''When Milford denied the Good News Club access to the school's limited
  >public forum on the ground that the club was religious in nature, it
  >discriminated against the club because of its religious viewpoint in
  >violation of the free-speech clause of the First Amendment,'' Thomas
wrote
  >for the majority.
  >
  >  AP-NY-06-11-01 1250EDT
  >
  >Copyright 2001 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP
  >news
  >report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise
distributed
  >without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.  All active
  >hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

  _________________________________________________________________
  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1643
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-12 21:21:38
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: join the people
Message:

even a tomb.

cliff


>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: join the people
>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 06:47:48 EDT
>
>
>
>Not only is there a room for Republicans ... there's a womb for 
>Republicans,
>Joe!

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1644
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-12 22:09:51
Subject:Korean labor protests escalate...
Message:

Korean labor protests escalate, joined
                     by hospital workers 

                     By PAUL SHIN
                     The Associated Press
                     6/12/01 9:01 PM

                     SEOUL, South Korea (AP) -- Thousands of nurses and 
hospital workers
                     walked off their jobs Wednesday, escalating a day-
old nationwide strike
                     that has hobbled South Korea's two airlines. 

                     After overnight negotiations with their unions 
broke down, Korean Air and
                     Asiana Airlines said they had to curtail by more 
than half their scheduled
                     flights for a second straight day. 

                     The protests were part of a nationwide strike 
called by the Korean
                     Confederation of Trade Unions, an umbrella labor 
group, to press
                     demands for higher wages and better working 
conditions. 

                     The confederation, which has been responsible for 
many violent protests,
                     predicted that the second-day of the strike would 
be bigger than the
                     first-day walkout which it claimed drew 55,000 
workers from 125 locations.

                     The government said, however, that the number of 
the second-day
                     strikers could be smaller than predicted by the 
confederation after four
                     hospital unions reached agreement on wage hikes in 
overnight
                     negotiations. 

                     Strike organizers said 10,000 nurses, clerks and 
utility workers at 50
                     general hospitals in Seoul and elsewhere were 
scheduled to join the
                     nationwide strike by June 20. 

                     Despite the strike, essential staffers will 
continue to operate in emergency
                     and delivery rooms and intensive care units, they 
said. 

                     In addition to financial benefits, workers 
complain that corporate reforms,
                     pushed by President Kim Dae-jung, are causing mass 
layoffs. Kim says
                     restructuring is a painful but inevitable medicine 
for the economy, which is
                     recovering from the 1997-1998 Asian financial 
crisis. 

                     Besides the airlines, most of the other work sites 
affected by the indefinite
                     walkout were in the metals and chemical 
industries. 

                     The focus of the labor protests was seen as the 
participation of the pilots'
                     union of Korean and Air and the non-pilot union of 
Asiana Airlines which
                     sought wage hikes of up to 21 percent. 

                     The airline strike is the worst in South Korea's 
aviation history. Korean
                     Air's pilots' union ended a one-day strike last 
year after getting a hefty 44
                     percent pay hike. 

                     For the second straight day on Wednesday, Korean 
Air, the nation's
                     largest carrier, canceled 66 of its scheduled 356 
domestic and
                     international flights. Asiana's international 
flights were unaffected but its
                     domestic flights were cut by half. 

                     Korean Air also canceled 17 of its 22 
international cargo flights on
                     Wednesday. 

                     No serious confusion was reported at airports, 
however, as many
                     passengers changed or canceled their reservations 
in anticipation of the
                     strike. 

                     State prosecutors, armed with court-issued 
warrants, were trying to arrest
                     14 Korean Air union leaders. 

                      Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights 
reserved. This material may not be
                                 published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1645
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-12 22:14:06
Subject:Re: [NB_CC_TF] revolutionary democracy & NJ assembly
Message:

please clarify.

cliff


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., TRACYFORD1420@W... wrote:
> COME TO TRUE REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY & N. J. ASSEMBLY ISSUES AT THE
> GEORGE STREET COO-OP, INC. ON 89 MORRIS STREET IN NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J.
> 08901
> 
> DATE: MONDAY, JUNE 25,2001
> 
> TIME: 6:00PM TO 9:00PM
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1646
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-12 23:28:00
Subject:Re: McGreevey Disclaims Outlawing Racial Profiling
Message:

McGreevey should join the people and back a law outlawing racial profiling - 
Franks would outlaw racial profiling. 



Panel finds no takers on plan to limit car searches 

06/12/01

BY ROBERT SCHWANEBERG AND JOE DONOHUE
STAR-LEDGER STAFF


The Senate Judiciary Committee released its proposals yesterday for 
eradicating racial profiling, but the key recommendation -- a gubernatorial 
order banning troopers from asking permission to search a car -- was dead on 
arrival. 


Acting Gov. Donald DiFrancesco has said he will not ban so-called "consent 
searches." The three leading candidates to succeed him all said consent 
searches, if properly used, are a valuable crime prevention tool. 


Other key proposals, such as independent oversight of the State Police and 
Attorney General's Office and making it a crime to target minority motorists 
based on their race, were opposed by some candidates and got a lukewarm 
reception from others. The committee had outlined the recommendations prior 
to releasing the full report yesterday. 


Rae Hutton, a spokeswoman for DiFrancesco, said the acting governor will 
discuss the report with Attorney General John Farmer Jr. and had not yet 
taken a position on many of the recommendations. 


The report is the product of nine days of Senate Judiciary Committee hearings 
featuring 45 witnesses, an examination of nearly 100,000 pages of documents 
and more than 150 hours of interviews and depositions. Committee Chairman 
William Gormley (R-Atlantic) said the panel likely will move forward later 
this month with bills that would enact several of the proposed reforms -- 
including making racial profiling a crime. 


The report also endorsed bills requiring that State Police records be 
maintained for 10 years, establishing a hotline for citizens to report 
misconduct by state troopers, making it a crime to tamper with video cameras 
in patrol cars and requiring troopers to fill out a report for every motor 
vehicle they stop. 


The panel said State Police should be immediately prohibited from conducting 
consent searches on major highways. It recommended that such a ban be imposed 
by an executive order that would allow a future governor to lift the ban once 
the state can better monitor troopers and ensure they do not use their powers 
in racially discriminatory ways. 


Consent searches are under attack in the face of overwhelming evidence that 
they have been used as a pretext for racial profiling. 


In its 116-page report, the committee noted that despite reforms intended to 
eradicate racial profiling, 71 percent of the consent searches conducted on 
the New Jersey Turnpike last year involved minorities and had "negligible" 
returns. 


For every Hispanic motorist caught with contraband, 19 others were subjected 
to the embarrassment and inconvenience of a roadside search, according to the 
report. The committee concluded "that the possible utility of consent 
searches is outweighed by the violations of civil rights accompanying their 
abuse." 


But the idea of scrapping consent searches -- which had been floated in 
advance of the report's official release -- appears doomed. It is opposed by 
Democratic gubernatorial candidate and Woodbridge Mayor Jim McGreevey as well 
as the two Republican contenders, Jersey City Mayor Bret Schundler and former 
Rep. Bob Franks. 


"I don't see any benefit to narrowing fully legitimate, constitutional police 
powers," Schundler said. 


Franks said that eliminating consent searches would let "gun runners and drug 
dealers go free." He favored training law enforcement personnel "to conduct 
fair, truly voluntary and unbiased searches according to objective criteria." 


McGreevey "believes handcuffing police officers is not the way to remedy the 
absence of leadership that is one of the root causes of profiling," said his 
spokesman, Richard McGrath. 


The only candidate who would even consider banning consent searches is Sen. 
William Schluter (R-Mercer), a maverick Republican running for governor as an 
independent. He said they are "terribly intimidating" and border on a 
violation of the U.S. Constitution's ban on unreasonable searches. 


In a five-page minority report, the four Democratic members of the Judiciary 
Committee called for banning consent searches by enacting a law. But Gormley 
said that if the governor and leading gubernatorial candidates are not 
willing to ban the searches by executive order, "there doesn't seem to be a 
likelihood they'd sign a similar law." 


The proposal to ban consent searches is the second major recommendation of 
the 11-member Senate Judiciary Committee to fall by the wayside. 


Earlier, its unanimous recommendation that state Supreme Court Justice Peter 
Verniero be impeached for mishandling the racial profiling issue when he was 
attorney general and lying about it to lawmakers was stymied by Assembly 
Speaker Jack Collins (R-Salem). 


The fate of other proposals may hinge on who becomes the next governor. 


Schundler endorsed the committee's recommendation for psychological testing 
of State Police applicants to weed out bigots -- something that he said 
Jersey City already does and the state "should be doing." Franks took the 
opposite view, saying "no psychological test yet devised will reliably 
identify bigots." McGreevey believes psychological testing of troopers "may 
have some simplistic appeal," but would have to be thoroughly analyzed, 
McGrath said. 


Schundler said that making racial profiling a crime rather than a matter for 
police discipline would require the state to provide officers with defense 
lawyers every time a motorist complains of bias and would make police leery 
of stopping anyone. "It's overkill," he said. 


McGreevey also questioned this proposal. Franks said he supports it: "Racial 
profiling is and should be against the law." 


The candidates questioned the committee's recommendation that misconduct 
within the State Police and Attorney General's Office be investigated by an 
Office of Professional Responsibility that would answer to an independent 
review board. The committee said such independent oversight would eliminate 
conflicts of interest that arise when the Attorney General's Office must act 
as both the legal adviser, supervisor and investigator of the State Police. 


Franks, however, said it is up to the State Police superintendent, the 
attorney general and ultimately the governor to ensure that state troopers do 
their jobs properly. 


"A civilian review board will inevitably become an excuse for our elected and 
appointed leaders to shirk their responsibilities, and therefore I oppose 
it," Franks said. 


Schundler said he would want to see how similar review boards have worked 
elsewhere. McGreevey also wants time to review the specifics of that 
proposal, but McGrath said "he believes internal police review boards can be 
much more effective than outside civilian review boards provided they're 
given the leadership and authority to enforce standards." 


Both Schundler and McGreevey said that, if elected, they would replace State 
Police Superintendent Col. Carson Dunbar, who was brought in two years ago to 
implement reforms of the agency. Franks said he wanted to meet with Dunbar 
before making any decision. 


The Democrats on the Judiciary Committee said the report "fails to explicitly 
discuss" the "failure of leadership at the highest levels of the Department 
of Law and Public Safety" that "permitted the racial profiling problem to be 
ignored or concealed for many years." 


Ed Lennon, president of the State Troopers Fraternal Association, said that 
making troopers issue a report every time they stop a car would create 
paperwork "for no reason." He said the number of consent searches has 
dwindled so much, "I don't see where there's a problem or any need to end 
consent searches." 




Subscriptions & Contacts | Archives | Personals | Obituaries 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
 2001 The Star-Ledger. Used by NJ.com with permission.  








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1647
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-12 23:30:42
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [NB_CC_TF] revolutionary democracy & NJ assembly
Message:

I AM HAVING A FORUM ABOUT TRUE REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY & N.J. ASSEMBLY
ISSUES FOR GENUINEY NICE PEOPLE WHO ARE HONEST TO ME AND REAL TO
THEMSELVES. THIS IS NOT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE FAKE AND RUDE AND THINK ARE
BETTER. EVERYONE IS EQUAL IN MY EYES.

THIS FORUM WILL BE AT THE GEORGE STREET CO-OP, INC. ON 89 MORRIS STREET
IN NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J. 08901

DATE:MONDAY, JUNE 25, 2001

TIME:6;00PM TO 9:00PM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1648
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-12 23:41:00
Subject:stop thief!
Message:

you should give up your seat on the housing authority to a resident of 
public housing or else stop claiming to understand what it means to 
represent people.

joe


>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: McGreevey Disclaims Outlawing Racial Profiling
>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:28:00 EDT
>
>
>McGreevey should join the people and back a law outlawing racial profiling 
>-
>Franks would outlaw racial profiling.
>
>
>
>Panel finds no takers on plan to limit car searches
>
>06/12/01
>
>BY ROBERT SCHWANEBERG AND JOE DONOHUE
>STAR-LEDGER STAFF
>
>
>The Senate Judiciary Committee released its proposals yesterday for
>eradicating racial profiling, but the key recommendation -- a gubernatorial
>order banning troopers from asking permission to search a car -- was dead 
>on
>arrival.
>
>
>Acting Gov. Donald DiFrancesco has said he will not ban so-called "consent
>searches." The three leading candidates to succeed him all said consent
>searches, if properly used, are a valuable crime prevention tool.
>
>
>Other key proposals, such as independent oversight of the State Police and
>Attorney General's Office and making it a crime to target minority 
>motorists
>based on their race, were opposed by some candidates and got a lukewarm
>reception from others. The committee had outlined the recommendations prior
>to releasing the full report yesterday.
>
>
>Rae Hutton, a spokeswoman for DiFrancesco, said the acting governor will
>discuss the report with Attorney General John Farmer Jr. and had not yet
>taken a position on many of the recommendations.
>
>
>The report is the product of nine days of Senate Judiciary Committee 
>hearings
>featuring 45 witnesses, an examination of nearly 100,000 pages of documents
>and more than 150 hours of interviews and depositions. Committee Chairman
>William Gormley (R-Atlantic) said the panel likely will move forward later
>this month with bills that would enact several of the proposed reforms --
>including making racial profiling a crime.
>
>
>The report also endorsed bills requiring that State Police records be
>maintained for 10 years, establishing a hotline for citizens to report
>misconduct by state troopers, making it a crime to tamper with video 
>cameras
>in patrol cars and requiring troopers to fill out a report for every motor
>vehicle they stop.
>
>
>The panel said State Police should be immediately prohibited from 
>conducting
>consent searches on major highways. It recommended that such a ban be 
>imposed
>by an executive order that would allow a future governor to lift the ban 
>once
>the state can better monitor troopers and ensure they do not use their 
>powers
>in racially discriminatory ways.
>
>
>Consent searches are under attack in the face of overwhelming evidence that
>they have been used as a pretext for racial profiling.
>
>
>In its 116-page report, the committee noted that despite reforms intended 
>to
>eradicate racial profiling, 71 percent of the consent searches conducted on
>the New Jersey Turnpike last year involved minorities and had "negligible"
>returns.
>
>
>For every Hispanic motorist caught with contraband, 19 others were 
>subjected
>to the embarrassment and inconvenience of a roadside search, according to 
>the
>report. The committee concluded "that the possible utility of consent
>searches is outweighed by the violations of civil rights accompanying their
>abuse."
>
>
>But the idea of scrapping consent searches -- which had been floated in
>advance of the report's official release -- appears doomed. It is opposed 
>by
>Democratic gubernatorial candidate and Woodbridge Mayor Jim McGreevey as 
>well
>as the two Republican contenders, Jersey City Mayor Bret Schundler and 
>former
>Rep. Bob Franks.
>
>
>"I don't see any benefit to narrowing fully legitimate, constitutional 
>police
>powers," Schundler said.
>
>
>Franks said that eliminating consent searches would let "gun runners and 
>drug
>dealers go free." He favored training law enforcement personnel "to conduct
>fair, truly voluntary and unbiased searches according to objective 
>criteria."
>
>
>McGreevey "believes handcuffing police officers is not the way to remedy 
>the
>absence of leadership that is one of the root causes of profiling," said 
>his
>spokesman, Richard McGrath.
>
>
>The only candidate who would even consider banning consent searches is Sen.
>William Schluter (R-Mercer), a maverick Republican running for governor as 
>an
>independent. He said they are "terribly intimidating" and border on a
>violation of the U.S. Constitution's ban on unreasonable searches.
>
>
>In a five-page minority report, the four Democratic members of the 
>Judiciary
>Committee called for banning consent searches by enacting a law. But 
>Gormley
>said that if the governor and leading gubernatorial candidates are not
>willing to ban the searches by executive order, "there doesn't seem to be a
>likelihood they'd sign a similar law."
>
>
>The proposal to ban consent searches is the second major recommendation of
>the 11-member Senate Judiciary Committee to fall by the wayside.
>
>
>Earlier, its unanimous recommendation that state Supreme Court Justice 
>Peter
>Verniero be impeached for mishandling the racial profiling issue when he 
>was
>attorney general and lying about it to lawmakers was stymied by Assembly
>Speaker Jack Collins (R-Salem).
>
>
>The fate of other proposals may hinge on who becomes the next governor.
>
>
>Schundler endorsed the committee's recommendation for psychological testing
>of State Police applicants to weed out bigots -- something that he said
>Jersey City already does and the state "should be doing." Franks took the
>opposite view, saying "no psychological test yet devised will reliably
>identify bigots." McGreevey believes psychological testing of troopers "may
>have some simplistic appeal," but would have to be thoroughly analyzed,
>McGrath said.
>
>
>Schundler said that making racial profiling a crime rather than a matter 
>for
>police discipline would require the state to provide officers with defense
>lawyers every time a motorist complains of bias and would make police leery
>of stopping anyone. "It's overkill," he said.
>
>
>McGreevey also questioned this proposal. Franks said he supports it: 
>"Racial
>profiling is and should be against the law."
>
>
>The candidates questioned the committee's recommendation that misconduct
>within the State Police and Attorney General's Office be investigated by an
>Office of Professional Responsibility that would answer to an independent
>review board. The committee said such independent oversight would eliminate
>conflicts of interest that arise when the Attorney General's Office must 
>act
>as both the legal adviser, supervisor and investigator of the State Police.
>
>
>Franks, however, said it is up to the State Police superintendent, the
>attorney general and ultimately the governor to ensure that state troopers 
>do
>their jobs properly.
>
>
>"A civilian review board will inevitably become an excuse for our elected 
>and
>appointed leaders to shirk their responsibilities, and therefore I oppose
>it," Franks said.
>
>
>Schundler said he would want to see how similar review boards have worked
>elsewhere. McGreevey also wants time to review the specifics of that
>proposal, but McGrath said "he believes internal police review boards can 
>be
>much more effective than outside civilian review boards provided they're
>given the leadership and authority to enforce standards."
>
>
>Both Schundler and McGreevey said that, if elected, they would replace 
>State
>Police Superintendent Col. Carson Dunbar, who was brought in two years ago 
>to
>implement reforms of the agency. Franks said he wanted to meet with Dunbar
>before making any decision.
>
>
>The Democrats on the Judiciary Committee said the report "fails to 
>explicitly
>discuss" the "failure of leadership at the highest levels of the Department
>of Law and Public Safety" that "permitted the racial profiling problem to 
>be
>ignored or concealed for many years."
>
>
>Ed Lennon, president of the State Troopers Fraternal Association, said that
>making troopers issue a report every time they stop a car would create
>paperwork "for no reason." He said the number of consent searches has
>dwindled so much, "I don't see where there's a problem or any need to end
>consent searches."
>
>
>
>
>Subscriptions & Contacts | Archives | Personals | Obituaries
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>--
>� 2001 The Star-Ledger. Used by NJ.com with permission.
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1649
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-13 09:56:08
Subject:Re: [nbpc] stop lying, Joe
Message:

Joe,

It is useless trying to apply rationality to your methodology of agitation 
but, let's try...

If you followed through and got a legal opinion from the state, HUD, county 
or City Attorney Hamilton, then you would hear that it is Harris which is the 
illegal member, according to the law. According to the people, they would 
rather have her leave, also. You would not know that as you have not been to 
the NBHA meetings to hear the concerns of the residents. When you have gone 
to Schwartz Robeson, you have alienated the residents, with your agitational 
methods, so much so that they think you are disrespectful and, moreover, they 
think you are the People's Campaign. 

NBHA meetings are on the fourth Wednesday of the month at 6:30 pm at the 
Schwartz Community Room, 37 Van Dyke Ave.

City Attorney Hamilton gave the legal advice to the City Council at a City 
Council meeting which you failed to attend.

Best regards...






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1650
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-13 17:47:48
Subject:sucker bright
Message:

fuck yourself bright
next time i see you you better have the money you owe us.

joe


>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] stop lying, Joe
>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:56:08 EDT
>
>
>Joe,
>
>It is useless trying to apply rationality to your methodology of agitation
>but, let's try...
>
>If you followed through and got a legal opinion from the state, HUD, county
>or City Attorney Hamilton, then you would hear that it is Harris which is 
>the
>illegal member, according to the law. According to the people, they would
>rather have her leave, also. You would not know that as you have not been 
>to
>the NBHA meetings to hear the concerns of the residents. When you have gone
>to Schwartz Robeson, you have alienated the residents, with your 
>agitational
>methods, so much so that they think you are disrespectful and, moreover, 
>they
>think you are the People's Campaign.
>
>NBHA meetings are on the fourth Wednesday of the month at 6:30 pm at the
>Schwartz Community Room, 37 Van Dyke Ave.
>
>City Attorney Hamilton gave the legal advice to the City Council at a City
>Council meeting which you failed to attend.
>
>Best regards...

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1651
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-13 18:30:51
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Mighty Joe Young
Message:

Take it easy, Joe. I should get my Mao book back at the same time. Remember, 
I lent it to you(s).






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1652
Sender:Mathew Levi <ml@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-13 19:06:20
Subject:Re: [nbpc] sucker bright
Message:

LOL!  BOL/SWORD/MAFIA

> fuck yourself bright
> next time i see you you better have the money you owe us.
>
> joe
>
>
> >From: FBRIGHT123@...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] stop lying, Joe
> >Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:56:08 EDT
> >
> >
> >Joe,
> >
> >It is useless trying to apply rationality to your methodology of
agitation
> >but, let's try...
> >
> >If you followed through and got a legal opinion from the state, HUD,
county
> >or City Attorney Hamilton, then you would hear that it is Harris which is
> >the
> >illegal member, according to the law. According to the people, they would
> >rather have her leave, also. You would not know that as you have not been
> >to
> >the NBHA meetings to hear the concerns of the residents. When you have
gone
> >to Schwartz Robeson, you have alienated the residents, with your
> >agitational
> >methods, so much so that they think you are disrespectful and, moreover,
> >they
> >think you are the People's Campaign.
> >
> >NBHA meetings are on the fourth Wednesday of the month at 6:30 pm at the
> >Schwartz Community Room, 37 Van Dyke Ave.
> >
> >City Attorney Hamilton gave the legal advice to the City Council at a
City
> >Council meeting which you failed to attend.
> >
> >Best regards...
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1653
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-14 12:34:23
Subject:O'Neill: Corporate fascist Bushwacking democracy
Message:

More frightening reasons to focus the United Front towards keep the 
far-right from closing in while building an independent movement for 
Revolutionary Democracy from the ground up: (i.e.-Bury Franks in November! 
It will be a shot against the rise of American fascism heard 'round the 
world!).....


FAIR  Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting     130 W. 25th Street   New York, NY 
10001
ACTION ALERT: "Political Dynamite" Fails to Explode

Extreme proposals of Treasury's O'Neill mostly unreported
June 13, 2001
When a high-level government official calls for drastic changes in U.S. law, 
it ought to be big news. But in an interview reported by the Financial 
Times' Amity Shlaes (5/19/01 & 5/22/01), treasury secretary Paul O'Neill 
called for sweeping changes in U.S. tax and social policy, and some three 
weeks later, those statements have made hardly a ripple in the U.S. media. 
Most Americans have probably not heard a word about them.
In the interview, O'Neill called the current U.S. tax system "an 
abomination" that required changes to its "very structure." His preferred 
changes? O'Neill "absolutely" supports the elimination of taxes on 
corporations-- and the shifting of the tax burden to individuals, saying 
government would work better if it "collected taxes in a more direct way 
from the people."
He also called for the abolition of Social Security and Medicare, on the 
grounds that "able-bodied adults should save enough on a regular basis so 
that they can provide for their own retirement, and, for that matter, health 
and medical needs." In fact, O'Neill believes the U.S. should reconsider the 
whole purpose of taxation: "National defense is a federal responsibility," 
Shlaes paraphrases O'Neill as saying, "but all other outlays need review."
And O'Neill assured Shlaes he was not speaking only for himself: "Not only 
am I committed to working on this issue, the president is also intrigued 
about the possibility of fixing this mess."
The Financial Times described O'Neill's comments (approvingly) as "radical" 
and "political dynamite." Yet the story has so far failed to take hold in 
the U.S. press.
Three columnists at New York's Newsday noted O'Neill's remarks: Robert Reno 
(who said the Treasury Secretary "comes across as a man who has paid a lot 
of taxes and clearly resents it"-- 5/27/01) Marie Cocco (5/31/01) and Paul 
Vitello (5/24/01). An obviously irked Vitello took it the furthest, actually 
calling O'Neill's spokesman at Treasury to confirm that these were not 
"made-up quotes":
"The secretary didn't really mean to say that no matter how old, no person 
who has paid into the Social Security system all his or her life would be 
entitled to benefits until he or she is physically no longer able to work? 
He didn't really mean to say that ExxonMobil and Time Warner should be 
treated as we treat the church-- as tax exempt?
"'Yes,' said the spokesman, 'that is our position. The quotes were all 
accurate.'"
Thomas DeFrank of New York's Daily News also reported O'Neill's comments 
(5/22/01), but he apparently got a different response from the Treasury 
Department. "Treasury spokesman Rob Nichols said O'Neill's comments on 
Social Security reflected his personal views, not the Bush 
administration's," he noted.
Outside of local New York papers, the story was harder to find. Cox wire 
service reporter Scott Shepard filed a story (5/20/01), which noted only 
O'Neill's description of the tax system as an "abomination" and the claim 
that the president was "also intrigued" about major changes, including 
cutting corporate taxes. A short piece in the May 22 Investor's Business 
Daily ("A Whiff of Reform in the Air") did the same, and was echoed in its 
approving tone by a column in the May 23 Washington Times ("Signals for Tax 
Repair?").
O'Neill has made several television appearances since the Financial Times 
interview, but a search of the Nexis.com database turned up just two TV 
references to the remarks, neither on a Big 3 network. The Financial Times' 
own Robert Thomson teased his paper's interview at the end of a May 18 
appearance on CNNfn's "The N.E.W. Show" whose main subject was the 
Lucent/Alcatel merger. And Fox News Sunday host Tony Snow asked O'Neill 
about the idea of "getting rid of the corporate income tax" on June 3. 
(O'Neill declined to answer, saying only that "we need to fundamentally look 
at the way our tax code works.")
What about the country's major outlets, the place one would look for a story 
of such import? So far, O'Neill's radical statements have made it into the 
New York TimesUSA Today ran an Associated Press column (5/22/01) that placed 
O'Neill's calls for eliminating taxes on corporations at the end, after 
discussion of estate taxes and "simplification" of the tax system, and noted 
only that the Treasury Secretary has plans for "reform" of Social Security. 
(AP's original headline on the piece: "O'Neill: Further Tax Relief Coming," 
5/21/01.)
Washington Post columnist John O. Fox used O'Neill's "abomination" quote to 
shore up his own argument about the U.S.'s "monstrously complicated" tax 
code, but ignored the rest of his statements. And the Post's David Broder 
made no reference to the Financial Times interview in his June 6 column, 
which referred to Bush administration plans to "open [Social Security and 
Medicare] up to market forces."
Broder did note congenially that "as Treasury Secretary Paul 
O'Neill...reminded me the other day, what makes the task so difficult is the 
need to educate people about the current system, before they can be 
persuaded that it needs to be changed as the administration proposes."
Indeed, the American people could use "educating" about just what the Bush 
administration and its Treasury Secretary propose. But where will they get 
it if not from the mainstream news media?



ACTION: Please write to national and local media outlets and ask them why 
Paul O'Neill's calls for eliminating corporate taxes and Social Security 
were not a major news story.
Some suggested contacts include:
ABC World News Tonight
Anchor and Senior Editor
Peter Jennings
PeterJennings@...
NBC News
DC Bureau Chief & Host, "Meet the Press"
Tim Russert
mtp@...
New York Times
nytnews@...
Toll free comment line: 1-888-NYT-NEWS
Washington Post
Deputy National Editor (Domestic Policy)
Leonard Bernstein
bernsteinl@...
Los Angeles Times
DC Bureau Chief
Doyle McManus
doyle.mcmanus@...
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1654
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-14 20:18:54
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: Treated Like Trash
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....

WASTE WHITE/MALE SUPREMACY!
PEOPLES' WAR ON THE RIGHT!
BURY FRANKS/SCHUNDLER!!!

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Treated Like Trash

IN AMERICA
By BOB HERBERT

The United States Navy's harsh treatment of protesters arrested on
the island of Vieques in April came to light last week in hearings
held by members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/14/opinion/14HERB.html?ex=993564334&ei=1&en=c763af47c450bff4

/-----------------------------------------------------------------\


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Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1655
Sender:"Rob Bertrand" <alarmguy96@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-15 00:42:55
Subject:This listserve is an embarassment...
Message:

I have been on this listserve for a few months now...

In that time, I think I have seen some of the most embarassing crap come 
from this group that has ever filtered into my inbox.  The Peoples Campaign 
Documentary has yet to be finished, and if I were to base my belief in this 
organization on what I see on this listserve, I would probably just throw 
all of my footage straight into the garbage.

I guess that I can understand that not all members of this group are 
ignorant, just several -- and they happen to be the most vocal.

My word of caution would be that a link to this forum is on the NBPC WEBSITE 
-- i.e. anyone interested in the cause can subscribe.  After reading so much 
of the juvenile, petty, mindless shit that has filtered through this thing I 
think I am feeling the need to break any allegiances to this group.  I am 
not surprised that certain members of this online community have been banned 
elsewhere.

I have become incredibly disillusioned with the NBPC and I hope that someone 
can explain that away for me.  I'd really enjoy hearing it.  More than 
likely, I'll probably hear "fuck you."  Thanks for making me doubt my judge 
of character even more.

Rob Bertrand
a.k.a. "Rob the Documentarian"

From: Mathew Levi <ml@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] sucker bright
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:06:20 -0400


LOL!  BOL/SWORD/MAFIA

 > fuck yourself bright
 > next time i see you you better have the money you owe us.
 >
 > joe
 >
 >
 > >From: FBRIGHT123@...
 > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] stop lying, Joe
 > >Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:56:08 EDT
 > >
 > >
 > >Joe,
 > >
 > >It is useless trying to apply rationality to your methodology of
agitation
 > >but, let's try...
 > >
 > >If you followed through and got a legal opinion from the state, HUD,
county
 > >or City Attorney Hamilton, then you would hear that it is Harris which 
is
 > >the
 > >illegal member, according to the law. According to the people, they 
would
 > >rather have her leave, also. You would not know that as you have not 
been
 > >to
 > >the NBHA meetings to hear the concerns of the residents. When you have
gone
 > >to Schwartz Robeson, you have alienated the residents, with your
 > >agitational
 > >methods, so much so that they think you are disrespectful and, moreover,
 > >they
 > >think you are the People's Campaign.
 > >
 > >NBHA meetings are on the fourth Wednesday of the month at 6:30 pm at the
 > >Schwartz Community Room, 37 Van Dyke Ave.
 > >
 > >City Attorney Hamilton gave the legal advice to the City Council at a
City
 > >Council meeting which you failed to attend.
 > >
 > >Best regards...
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 >
 >
 > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >
 > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >
 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >
 >


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1656
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-15 01:17:47
Subject:Re: [starc-rutgers] revolutionary democracy & NJ assembly
Message:

COME HEAR THE VOICE OF TRUTH
MINISTER TRACY FORD
AT THE GEORGE STREET CO-OP, INC.
89 MORRIS STREET
NEW BRUNSWICK, NEW JERSEY 08901
DATE: JUNE 25, 2001
TIME : 6:00PM TO 9:00PM
A MINISTRY CAPABLE OF LEADING THE CHURCH IN THE PRESENT MUST BE FAITHFUL
TO SCRIPTURE, FORMED BY HISTORIC WISDOM, FORGED IN THEOLOGICAL
REFLECTION FAMILIAR WITH CONTEMPORARY CULTURE, AND FASHIONED THROUGH
SPIRITUAL DISCIPLINE.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1657
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-15 01:29:53
Subject:Re: [njfo] revolutionary democracy & NJ assembly
Message:

COME HEAR THE VOICE OF TRUTH 
MINISTER TRACY FORD
AT THE GEORGE STREET CO-OP, INC.
89 MORRIS STREET
NEW BRUNSWICK, NEW JERSEY 08901
DATE JUNE 25, 2001
TIME: 6:00PM TO 9:00PM
HE WILL PREPARE YOU FOR DYNAMIC MINISTRY AND SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP IN THE
CHURCH.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1658
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-15 01:37:52
Subject:Re: [nbpc] revolutionary democracy & NJ assembly
Message:

COME HEAR THE VOICE OF TRUTH
MINISTER TRACY FORD
AT THE GEORGE STREET CO-OP, INC.
89 MORRIS STREET
NEW BRUNSWICK, NEW JERSEY 08901
DATE: JUNE 24, 2001
TIME: 6:00PM TO 9:00PM
BRINGING THE WORD TO LIFE.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1659
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-15 01:43:45
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] revolutionary democracy & NJ assembly
Message:

COME HEAR THE VOICE OF TRUTH
MINISTER TRACY FORD
AT THE GEORGE STREET CO-OP, INC.
89 MORRIS STREET
NEW BRUNSWICK, NEW JERSEY 08901
DATE:JUNE 25, 2001
TIME: 6:00PM TO 9:00PM
WHERE GOD"S WORD IS INTEGRATED WITH REAL-LIFE MINISTRY PREPARATION



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1660
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-15 01:51:32
Subject:Re: [njfo] QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Message:

COME HEAR THE VOICE OF TRUTH
MINISTER TRACY FORD
AT THE GEORGE STREET CO-OP, INC.
89 MORRIS STREET
NEW BRUNSWICK, NEW JERSEY 08901
DATE: JUNE 25, 2001
TIME: 6:00PM TO 9:00PM
SEEKING ENLIGHTENMENT?
HE WILL GUIDE YOU ON THE PATH TOWARD A DEEPER RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1661
Sender:"L. A." <lynnastorga@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-15 09:12:54
Subject:Re: [nbpc] This listserve is an embarrassment...
Message:

I have to agree with Rob on this.  I originally signed on to this list serve 
because I was inspired by what I saw at a recent New Brunswick City Council 
meeting.  I agreed with a lot of what the members of the People's Campaign 
had said and wanted to find out more on how I could be more active in 
helping to change things in New Brunswick.

Instead, I have found that my e-mail account has since been flooded (10 or 
more on any given day) with e-mails not too relevant to New Brunswick's 
situation, and I wasn't even receiving the info I had been looking for (i.e. 
what underhanded bill was the city gov't trying to pass, future city council 
meetings, future meetings of the People's Campaign, etc.).  It is possible 
that some of this info did get sent to me, but since the majority of the 
e-mails sent were personal and useless, I probably deleted them along with 
everything else. It is just way too time consuming to try to stay on top of 
all the e-mails sent to this list serve just to make sure that my account 
does not go over its quota.

I am still interested in finding out about the People's Campaign and I am 
trying not to let this experience with the list serve dishearten me.  
Unfortunately, I see no other choice for now but to unsubscribe and try to 
get more info on the group some other way.  This list serve could be a very 
helpful and convenient tool to reach your membership, but it should be used 
more wisely and personal differences settled somewhere else.




>From: "Rob Bertrand" <alarmguy96@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] This list serve is an embarrassment...
>Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 04:42:55
>
>I have been on this list serve for a few months now...
>
>In that time, I think I have seen some of the most embarrassing crap come
>from this group that has ever filtered into my inbox.  The Peoples Campaign
>Documentary has yet to be finished, and if I were to base my belief in this
>organization on what I see on this list serve, I would probably just throw
>all of my footage straight into the garbage.
>
>I guess that I can understand that not all members of this group are
>ignorant, just several -- and they happen to be the most vocal.
>
>My word of caution would be that a link to this forum is on the NBPC 
>WEBSITE
>-- i.e. anyone interested in the cause can subscribe.  After reading so 
>much
>of the juvenile, petty, mindless shit that has filtered through this thing 
>I
>think I am feeling the need to break any allegiances to this group.  I am
>not surprised that certain members of this online community have been 
>banned
>elsewhere.
>
>I have become incredibly disillusioned with the NBPC and I hope that 
>someone
>can explain that away for me.  I'd really enjoy hearing it.  More than
>likely, I'll probably hear "fuck you."  Thanks for making me doubt my judge
>of character even more.
>
>Rob Bertrand
>a.k.a. "Rob the Documentarian"
>
>From: Mathew Levi <ml@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] sucker bright
>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:06:20 -0400
>
>
>LOL!  BOL/SWORD/MAFIA
>
>  > fuck yourself bright
>  > next time i see you you better have the money you owe us.
>  >
>  > joe
>  >
>  >
>  > >From: FBRIGHT123@...
>  > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] stop lying, Joe
>  > >Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:56:08 EDT
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >Joe,
>  > >
>  > >It is useless trying to apply rationality to your methodology of
>agitation
>  > >but, let's try...
>  > >
>  > >If you followed through and got a legal opinion from the state, HUD,
>county
>  > >or City Attorney Hamilton, then you would hear that it is Harris which
>is
>  > >the
>  > >illegal member, according to the law. According to the people, they
>would
>  > >rather have her leave, also. You would not know that as you have not
>been
>  > >to
>  > >the NBHA meetings to hear the concerns of the residents. When you have
>gone
>  > >to Schwartz Robeson, you have alienated the residents, with your
>  > >agitational
>  > >methods, so much so that they think you are disrespectful and, 
>moreover,
>  > >they
>  > >think you are the People's Campaign.
>  > >
>  > >NBHA meetings are on the fourth Wednesday of the month at 6:30 pm at 
>the
>  > >Schwartz Community Room, 37 Van Dyke Ave.
>  > >
>  > >City Attorney Hamilton gave the legal advice to the City Council at a
>City
>  > >Council meeting which you failed to attend.
>  > >
>  > >Best regards...
>  >
>  > _________________________________________________________________
>  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>  >
>  >
>  > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>  >
>  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>  >
>  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >
>  >
>  >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1662
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-15 13:33:13
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] Letter on behalf of Faison
Message:


Subject: [poprogress] Letter on behalf of Faison
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:22:55 EDT

Here is a letter to Robert J. Cleary urging him to
overturn the ridiculous ruling of Judge Lifland in the Earl Faison case.
This is the case where 5 Orange police officers beat an unarmed, innocent
man to death . They were found guilty of conspiracy by a jury and then
6 months after the verdict, the corrupt trial Judge, John Lifland, illegally
overturned the jury verdict and kicked the ruling out.
We want to get 100s of these letters to Robert J. Cleary, the US Attorney,
ASAP.
So please feel free to print this and then to mail it. Please also make
copies
and have others do the same! Also for those who wish to add more to this
letter, please feel free to do so!

Robert J. Cleary
US Attorney
US Attorney's Office
Rodino Federal Building
970 Broad Street
Suite 700
Newark, NJ 07102

I am submitting this letter to you to express my outrage at the egregious
decision made by Judge John Lifland to dismiss the consipiracy conviction in
the Faison case against five Orange police officers, who beat, brutalized 
and
tortured Earl Faison to death.
By overturning the ruling, Judge Lifland has made a farce of the courts and
has shown complete disregard for the jury system.
I strongly urge you to overrule Judge Lifland and to uphold the jury's
finding of conspiracy for all 5 officers! These officers must be held
accountable and justice must prevail!
____________________________________
Signature
-----------------------------------
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1663
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-15 14:00:01
Subject:***www.amiribaraka.com***
Message:

Check it out: www.amiribaraka.com

Thanks Chris Funkhouser!


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Funkhouser, Chris" <Funkhouser@...>
To: "'Matthew Smith '" <vivaohio@...>
Subject: RE: [poprogress] Amiri Baraka Recognized
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:39:45 -0400


hi Matt,

Hope everything's going well.

I was wondering if you could circulate via your
mailing lists (i.e. word of cyber-mouth) that
amiribaraka.com is up & kicking.  I haven't the
time to write a press release for it but do want people
to check it out.

OK, talk w/you soon, thanks,

cfunk

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Smith
Sent: 6/4/01 11:52 AM
Subject: Fwd: [poprogress] Amiri Baraka Recognized





----Original Message Follows----
From: "Howard Nelson"
Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
To:
CC: "Cliff"
Subject: [poprogress] Amiri Baraka Recognized
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 21:42:06 -0400
Cliff Smith picked this up from the Star Ledger. Thanks Cliff.
 >
 > Editorials
 >
 > Newark's man of letters
 >
 > 06/01/01
 >
 > Many times we can find good things right in our own
 > back yards. In the world of letters, that is certainly
 > true.
 >
 > Newark's literary giant, Amiri Baraka, was recently
 > inducted, along with 13 other artists, architects,
 > composers and writers, into the American Academy
 > of Arts and Letters.
 >
 > Members are elected each year to fill vacancies in
 > the academy's membership of 250 American cultural
 > figures. Nominations are submitted for vote by
 > discipline, and the candidates receiving the most
 > votes from their peers are voted on by the entire
 > membership.
 >
 > Though often viewed as controversial, Baraka is
 > well-respected nationally. Hailed as one of the most
 > important poets of his generation, he has also written
 > numerous plays, 10 collections of essays, a novel, an
 > autobiography and a collection of stories. He was
 > one of the founders of the Black Arts movement in
 > the 1960s.
 >
 > Although his art has often been eclipsed by his role
 > as a political, cultural and social activist, Baraka is,
 > first and foremost, a writer, one of the most prolific
 > produced by Newark. His induction into the
 > academy is a fitting recognition of a literary career
 > that has spanned nearly half a century.
 >
 > Subscriptions & Contacts | Archives | Personals |
 > Obituaries
 >
 > � 2001 The Star-Ledger. Used by NJ.com with
 > permission.
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 >
 >
 > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 > coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
 >
 >
 >
 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

   _____

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
<http://explorer.msn.com>



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1664
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-15 14:08:47
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Message:

Tracy Ford - PLEASE STOP SPAMMING THESE EGROUPS



>From: TRACYFORD1420@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, njfo@yahoogroups.com, 
>coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
>Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 01:51:32 -0400 (EDT)
>
>COME HEAR THE VOICE OF TRUTH
>MINISTER TRACY FORD
>AT THE GEORGE STREET CO-OP, INC.
>89 MORRIS STREET
>NEW BRUNSWICK, NEW JERSEY 08901
>DATE: JUNE 25, 2001
>TIME: 6:00PM TO 9:00PM
>SEEKING ENLIGHTENMENT?
>HE WILL GUIDE YOU ON THE PATH TOWARD A DEEPER RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1665
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-15 14:37:30
Subject:Re: [nbpc] This listserve is an embarrassment...
Message:

It's been a long time since this egroup has been representative of the 
People's Campaign. It was highjacked some time ago by a very vocal minority 
who has succeeded in alienating many people interested in the Campaign. A 
few months ago, we addressed this issue at a campaign general meeting. The 
majority decided to form a members-only egroup (nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com) 
as a way to deal with the situation. Since then, we have come under attack 
for alleged censorship. I still am not sure how I feel about our decision. I 
don't know if it was the right thing to do. What I do know is that more 
people have felt the way you both do than not.

As the former Treasurer and a member who gave her heart and soul to the
Campaign, I am very sad that people have been turned away by this crap. I 
wonder why I myself am still subscribed - most of the emails are 
annoying/offensive/petty. Not many are useful. Still, I guess I want to just 
want to keep 'plugged in'. i don't think that will last too much longer.

i want to tell you Rob that you should not judge a movement by an egroup. It 
is a pretty poor measure of anything substantive. the Campaign and the 
progressive movement in NB (which has been around for many many years and 
will be around for many more) is a viable, living, transforming body. It is 
what is real. Not petty email exchanges. For our sake, please don't throw 
any footage away.. if you really want to get it off your hands, someone will 
gladly rescue it. I have been wanting to see your documentary forever, by 
the way. The work you did on it has always been very appreciated. I'd like 
to get together to talk soon.

for other people, the major lesson learned from this egroup is how NOT to 
organize people into the movement.

Kristina

>From: "L. A." <lynnastorga@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] This listserve is an embarrassment...
>Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:12:54 -0000
>
>I have to agree with Rob on this.  I originally signed on to this list 
>serve
>because I was inspired by what I saw at a recent New Brunswick City Council
>meeting.  I agreed with a lot of what the members of the People's Campaign
>had said and wanted to find out more on how I could be more active in
>helping to change things in New Brunswick.
>
>Instead, I have found that my e-mail account has since been flooded (10 or
>more on any given day) with e-mails not too relevant to New Brunswick's
>situation, and I wasn't even receiving the info I had been looking for 
>(i.e.
>what underhanded bill was the city gov't trying to pass, future city 
>council
>meetings, future meetings of the People's Campaign, etc.).  It is possible
>that some of this info did get sent to me, but since the majority of the
>e-mails sent were personal and useless, I probably deleted them along with
>everything else. It is just way too time consuming to try to stay on top of
>all the e-mails sent to this list serve just to make sure that my account
>does not go over its quota.
>
>I am still interested in finding out about the People's Campaign and I am
>trying not to let this experience with the list serve dishearten me.
>Unfortunately, I see no other choice for now but to unsubscribe and try to
>get more info on the group some other way.  This list serve could be a very
>helpful and convenient tool to reach your membership, but it should be used
>more wisely and personal differences settled somewhere else.
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Rob Bertrand" <alarmguy96@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [nbpc] This list serve is an embarrassment...
> >Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 04:42:55
> >
> >I have been on this list serve for a few months now...
> >
> >In that time, I think I have seen some of the most embarrassing crap come
> >from this group that has ever filtered into my inbox.  The Peoples 
>Campaign
> >Documentary has yet to be finished, and if I were to base my belief in 
>this
> >organization on what I see on this list serve, I would probably just 
>throw
> >all of my footage straight into the garbage.
> >
> >I guess that I can understand that not all members of this group are
> >ignorant, just several -- and they happen to be the most vocal.
> >
> >My word of caution would be that a link to this forum is on the NBPC
> >WEBSITE
> >-- i.e. anyone interested in the cause can subscribe.  After reading so
> >much
> >of the juvenile, petty, mindless shit that has filtered through this 
>thing
> >I
> >think I am feeling the need to break any allegiances to this group.  I am
> >not surprised that certain members of this online community have been
> >banned
> >elsewhere.
> >
> >I have become incredibly disillusioned with the NBPC and I hope that
> >someone
> >can explain that away for me.  I'd really enjoy hearing it.  More than
> >likely, I'll probably hear "fuck you."  Thanks for making me doubt my 
>judge
> >of character even more.
> >
> >Rob Bertrand
> >a.k.a. "Rob the Documentarian"
> >
> >From: Mathew Levi <ml@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] sucker bright
> >Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:06:20 -0400
> >
> >
> >LOL!  BOL/SWORD/MAFIA
> >
> >  > fuck yourself bright
> >  > next time i see you you better have the money you owe us.
> >  >
> >  > joe
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > >From: FBRIGHT123@...
> >  > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >  > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >  > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] stop lying, Joe
> >  > >Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:56:08 EDT
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >Joe,
> >  > >
> >  > >It is useless trying to apply rationality to your methodology of
> >agitation
> >  > >but, let's try...
> >  > >
> >  > >If you followed through and got a legal opinion from the state, HUD,
> >county
> >  > >or City Attorney Hamilton, then you would hear that it is Harris 
>which
> >is
> >  > >the
> >  > >illegal member, according to the law. According to the people, they
> >would
> >  > >rather have her leave, also. You would not know that as you have not
> >been
> >  > >to
> >  > >the NBHA meetings to hear the concerns of the residents. When you 
>have
> >gone
> >  > >to Schwartz Robeson, you have alienated the residents, with your
> >  > >agitational
> >  > >methods, so much so that they think you are disrespectful and,
> >moreover,
> >  > >they
> >  > >think you are the People's Campaign.
> >  > >
> >  > >NBHA meetings are on the fourth Wednesday of the month at 6:30 pm at
> >the
> >  > >Schwartz Community Room, 37 Van Dyke Ave.
> >  > >
> >  > >City Attorney Hamilton gave the legal advice to the City Council at 
>a
> >City
> >  > >Council meeting which you failed to attend.
> >  > >
> >  > >Best regards...
> >  >
> >  > _________________________________________________________________
> >  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >  >
> >  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >  >
> >  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1666
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-15 16:11:48
Subject:Re: Fwd: [poprogress] Letter on behalf of Faison
Message:

I am not aware of how a prosecutor (i.e. the U.S. Attorney) 
can "overrule" a judge's ruling granting JNOV in a criminal case.  He 
could appeal it, or ask for reconsideration, but "overrule" it?  
Don't think so.  Maybe the text of the letter should be rethought.

FLK


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Subject: [poprogress] Letter on behalf of Faison
> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:22:55 EDT
> 
> Here is a letter to Robert J. Cleary urging him to
> overturn the ridiculous ruling of Judge Lifland in the Earl Faison 
case.
> This is the case where 5 Orange police officers beat an unarmed, 
innocent
> man to death . They were found guilty of conspiracy by a jury and 
then
> 6 months after the verdict, the corrupt trial Judge, John Lifland, 
illegally
> overturned the jury verdict and kicked the ruling out.
> We want to get 100s of these letters to Robert J. Cleary, the US 
Attorney,
> ASAP.
> So please feel free to print this and then to mail it. Please also 
make
> copies
> and have others do the same! Also for those who wish to add more to 
this
> letter, please feel free to do so!
> 
> Robert J. Cleary
> US Attorney
> US Attorney's Office
> Rodino Federal Building
> 970 Broad Street
> Suite 700
> Newark, NJ 07102
> 
> I am submitting this letter to you to express my outrage at the 
egregious
> decision made by Judge John Lifland to dismiss the consipiracy 
conviction in
> the Faison case against five Orange police officers, who beat, 
brutalized 
> and
> tortured Earl Faison to death.
> By overturning the ruling, Judge Lifland has made a farce of the 
courts and
> has shown complete disregard for the jury system.
> I strongly urge you to overrule Judge Lifland and to uphold the 
jury's
> finding of conspiracy for all 5 officers! These officers must be 
held
> accountable and justice must prevail!
> ____________________________________
> Signature
> -----------------------------------
> FREE Monthly Access. 4 cents a minute long distance! No Kidding!
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> FREE Download! Superior Marketing Tools & Tactics V1.7
> http://reports.emarketplacedirect.com/Free.jsp/pages/8584509.html
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> _________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1667
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-15 16:19:23
Subject:Re: [nbpc] This listserve is an embarrassment...
Message:

Kristina,

I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment.  I have no regrets about 
the decision creating http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nbpcmembers and 
limiting access to it to members of the group.  What is apparent, 
unfortunately, is that it did not go far enough, judging from the 
utter garbage I have seen here.  

I am minded to advocate the shutting down of this list on the outside 
risk that NBPC might be associated with it.  This kind of dilution 
and tarnishing is really not something this group should put up with.

Another point also: the calendar, database, and file feature 
available on the other egroup can be used to post events relevant to 
New Brunswick like city council meetings, etc. more effectively than 
in the current system.

FLK








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1668
Sender:Dwayne Middleton <nia7@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-15 19:34:49
Subject:Youth & Gang Forum
Message:

ATTENTION BLACK & LATINO YOUTH:

JOIN US FOR A HIP-HOP YOUTH & GANG FORUM

*****************************************************
KEYNOTE SPEAKER: AFENI SHAKUR, MOTHER OF TUPAC SHAKUR
ACTIVIST/ REVOLUTIONARY
*****************************************************

FEATURED PANELISTS:
KEVIN POWELL - ACTIVIST/WRITER
RAS BARAKA - POET/ACTIVIST
MIN. MICHAEL MUHAMMAD - NATION OF ISLAM

SPECIAL INVITED GUESTS:
KRS1, SONIA SANCHEZ, SISTA SOULJAH, AMINA
BARAKA, AMIRI BARAKA, DELACY
DAVIS, JAMES MTUME

THURSDAY JUNE 21 2001 7PM

CENTRAL HIGH SCHOOL
100 SUMMIT ST, NEWARK, NJ

****ADMISSIOIN FREE****

CONTACT: (973)698-9504

CO SPONSORED BY BLACK NIA FORCE, MUHAMMAD'S MOSQUE #25, PAN-AFRICAN
MUSLIM ASSOCIATION


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1669
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-16 00:35:35
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Message:

I AM HOLDING A FORUM. YOU DO NOT TELL JOE & CLIFF SMITH THAT WHEN THEY
HOLDING A FORUM AND SPREADING THE WORD ABOUT THEIR FORUM. DO YOU
KRISTINA BAS? ARE YOU AFRAID OF BOL/SWORD, KRISTINA BAS?? I AM SPREADING
THE WORD ABOUT MY FORUM LIKE JOE & CLIFF DOES. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? I
BELIEVE IN FREEDOM, JUSTICE, EQUALITY FOR ALL. DO YOU KRISTINA BAS
BELIEVE THIS OR NOT??  OR ARE YOU A HYPOCRITICAL RACISTS?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1670
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-16 00:42:07
Subject:open this up
Message:

   			    ***For Immediate Release***
					06/16/01

	   Committee to Defeat Racist Profiling & Police Brutality
		    Joe Smith 732.729.0390 can_bush@...
						###
When:
The incident occurred at 9:00pm on Wednesday evening 06/14/01.
The Press Conference will be held on Sunday June 17 @2:00pm. Location is 
Feaster Park - Throop Ave side where Baldwin runs into park, steps.

Who:
Kevin Johnson & Tyshon Johnson
90 Throop Ave, New Brunswick
296.9857

Dayshon Langston
11 Quentin Ave, New Brunswick
937.9369

Cliff Jones
1917 Birchwood Court, North Brunswick
940.0091

Juan Rupalo
169 Throop Ave, New Brunswick
213.5693

Marel Maldonado
520 William Street, Piscataway
564.9845

Edward James
418.0777

What:
Announcing lawsuit against New Brunswick Police Department alleging 
institutional racist conduct and anti-civil rights actions.

Why:
At least six marked police vehicles along with three unmarked narcotics 
vehicles with roughly 17 UNPROVOKED officers jumped these youth. While no 
laws where being broken several NBPD officers arrested any and all black 
males that the officers could get their hands on. One of the youths arrested 
was inside his own house and the police had to shove the mother aside to 
force entry - no warrants!
Tyshon Johnson says, "these NB police are committing open racist, terrorist 
attacks throughout the African-American and Latino/a American community. 
These actions of police brutality in our community demonstrate that we have 
no democracy and my people have no rights within this white supremacist 
culture."
These 7 youth will be holding this press conference to discuss their 
charges, announce their assembly line due process - with the court date 
being placed for this Wednesday, June 20, and reach out to the community for 
support and organization.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1671
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-16 02:55:24
Subject:Re: [njfo] Re: QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Message:

JESUS SUPPORT PEACE & SO DO I. JESUS SUPPORT THE ENVIRONMENT & SO DO I.
JESUS SUPPORT PERSONAL GROWTH & SO DO I. JESUS SUPPORT CIVIL-RIGHTS & SO
DO I. JESUS SUPPORT HUMAN-RIGHTS & SO DO I. I CARRY THE JESUS'S
BLOODSTAIN BANNER OF LOVE. JESUS IS MY KARL MARX. PAUL IS MY LENIN. THIS
IS MY POLITICS AND REPUBLICAN PARTY IS THE PARTY OF THE RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE
WHO WANT LIVE IN DECENCY AND SELF-RESPECT. HOW ABOUT YOU?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1672
Sender:Dwayne Middleton <nia7@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-17 01:07:14
Subject:Verse 4 Verse - 06.27.01
Message:

VERSE 4 VERSE
Poetry Cafe

Wednesday, June 27, 2001

**********************
@ The Brand New
BRIDGE CLUB
343 Washington Street (DOWNTOWN)
Newark, NJ 07102
(Between Court Street & William Street)

************************************
Doors Open @ 7:00 PM
Showtime @ 8:00 PM

$8.00 Cover Charge

HOSTED BY
Ras Baraka & Juba Dowdell

Featured Artists
John Thomason &
Precious Gift featuring Tamara Davis

Music by
DA JOINT

Plus
OPEN MIC SHOWCASE

-----------------------------------------
EVERY OTHER WEDNESDAY
-----------------------------------------

For More Information Contact Trevor Phillips @ 800.424.3192


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1673
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-17 12:00:10
Subject:Fwd: Re: Fwd: [coalitionforjustice] open this up
Message:



>From: Gwendolyn Wilson <breakingchains@...>
>To: cliff smith <cliffsmith69@...>
>Subject: Re: Fwd: [coalitionforjustice] open this up
>Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:46:36 -0700 (PDT)
>
>To these young men taking this stand that is so
>necessary - I say do it, because the injustice of
>today, needs to be called on, let them have it,
>because...
>
>The big "free" picture didn't include
>no brown paint
>no dreads
>no smooth walk
>no ebonic talk
>no pretty brown eyes
>no healthy thighs
>no rich hips
>no luscious lips
>no what up
>ain't that some stuff
>well we hear now
>and they better see
>that people of color
>demand that free mean free!
>If those pig cops are looking for the boys next door
>that ain't exactly what they in for.
>Don't take the shit, sitting down!
>More Power to You -
>--- cliff smith <cliffsmith69@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> > >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] open this up
> > >Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:42:07 -0400
> > >
> > >    			    ***For Immediate Release***
> > >					06/16/01
> > >
> > >	   Committee to Defeat Racist Profiling & Police
> > Brutality
> > >		    Joe Smith 732.729.0390 can_bush@...
> > >						###
> > >When:
> > >The incident occurred at 9:00pm on Wednesday
> > evening 06/14/01.
> > >The Press Conference will be held on Sunday June 17
> > @2:00pm. Location is
> > >Feaster Park - Throop Ave side where Baldwin runs
> > into park, steps.
> > >
> > >Who:
> > >Kevin Johnson & Tyshon Johnson
> > >90 Throop Ave, New Brunswick
> > >296.9857
> > >
> > >Dayshon Langston
> > >11 Quentin Ave, New Brunswick
> > >937.9369
> > >
> > >Cliff Jones
> > >1917 Birchwood Court, North Brunswick
> > >940.0091
> > >
> > >Juan Rupalo
> > >169 Throop Ave, New Brunswick
> > >213.5693
> > >
> > >Marel Maldonado
> > >520 William Street, Piscataway
> > >564.9845
> > >
> > >Edward James
> > >418.0777
> > >
> > >What:
> > >Announcing lawsuit against New Brunswick Police
> > Department alleging
> > >institutional racist conduct and anti-civil rights
> > actions.
> > >
> > >Why:
> > >At least six marked police vehicles along with
> > three unmarked narcotics
> > >vehicles with roughly 17 UNPROVOKED officers jumped
> > these youth. While no
> > >laws where being broken several NBPD officers
> > arrested any and all black
> > >males that the officers could get their hands on.
> > One of the youths
> > >arrested
> > >was inside his own house and the police had to
> > shove the mother aside to
> > >force entry - no warrants!
> > >Tyshon Johnson says, "these NB police are
> > committing open racist, terrorist
> > >attacks throughout the African-American and
> > Latino/a American community.
> > >These actions of police brutality in our community
> > demonstrate that we have
> > >no democracy and my people have no rights within
> > this white supremacist
> > >culture."
> > >These 7 youth will be holding this press conference
> > to discuss their
> > >charges, announce their assembly line due process -
> > with the court date
> > >being placed for this Wednesday, June 20, and reach
> > out to the community
> > >for
> > >support and organization.
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > http://explorer.msn.com
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
>http://buzz.yahoo.com/

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1674
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-17 12:25:03
Subject:Revolutionaries Unite! Win the Advanced to Communism!
Message:

Revolutionaries Unite!
Win the Advanced to Communism!

(by Amiri Baraka, for Unity & Struggle)

Build an organization of Revolutionaries by putting out the newspaper Unity 
& Struggle; hold a series of forums, study circles and polemics to promote 
discussion and organization with the participation of the advanced in order 
to first build revolutionary circles and ultimately an organization of 
revolutionaries.

Build a United Front for Afro-American Self-Determination (one section of 
the united front against imperialism).

Build a United Front for the complete social equality or women and men, one 
part of the united front against imperialism.  (added in the April, 1996 
issue of U&S)

Build a Democratic Workers' Party (an independent mass party).

Win the Advanced to Communism!

       These are correct slogans because they also point out the four levels 
that we seek.  We call for revolutionaries to unite because in the present 
time, place, and conditions, it seems the most scientifically correct call.

	We call for revolutionaries to unite because first we recognize the whole 
tradition of national liberation struggles as critical aspects of the 
struggle of the people versus imperialism, or labor versus capital, as well 
as the struggle of the working class for socialist revolution.  We are using 
Lenin's observation that the Soviet Revolution transformed national 
liberation struggles from merely bourgeois democratic struggles to direct 
struggles against imperialism.

	Unity & Struggle believes in building a revolutionary circle around the 
newspaper in the struggle to define what is revolution in the United States. 
  Through the process of unity-struggle-unity we will be able to broaden 
these circles across the country, build a powerful national circle of 
revolutionaries, and eventually an organization of revolutionaries.

	When the path of the Russian Revolution was obstructed by economism (the 
bourgeoisification of the political struggle into simple trade unionism, 
i.e., "giving the economic struggle a political character"), Lenin asked, 
"What Is To Be Done?"

	He pointed out the importance of revolutionary theory, especially in a 
period when such theory had largely been abandoned.  Unity & Struggle will 
sponsor forums, polemics, speak to the issues in the newspaper and in a 
series of public mass discussions in order to raise the question in the 
U.S., here, now, What Is To Be Done?

	We state the unification of revolutionaries so as to welcome those 
militants from the national liberation struggles and other democratic 
struggles who claim a revolutionary stance against imperialism & national 
oppression, and, of course, many, like ourselves, who also claim to be 
communists or socialists.

	We are also aware of the great amount of poisonous claptrap and lies about 
socialism following the overthrow of the Soviet social imperialist bloc and 
the steady creep toward capitalism of China under the capitalist roader 
leadership of Deng Xiaping, &c.  We must take from international 
revolutionary theory but at the same time be careful to keep in mind that we 
are building revolution here in the United States in the last part of the 
20th century.

	It is time for us to raise and clarify, given the material conditions of 
the United States in the late 20th century, all of these questions and to 
sum up in great detail where we have been and where we are now going.

	An organization of revolutionaries must put forward a program for the U.S. 
revolution, containing both its minimum and maximum demands.  The minimum 
demands focus of the struggle for democracy and self-determination, the 
maximum demands must focus on the overthrow of imperialism and the building 
of socialism and the eventual emergence of Communism.

	Within both the organization of revolutionaries and before the public, with 
the participation of the advanced, and with the struggle for clear, 
scientific, theory and practice, the questions will be resolved: What is 
revolution?  What is a revolutionary, in the U.S.?  It will be the 
ideological struggle over political line (how our theories mesh with our 
practice) that will either validate or show the errors in our theory and 
practice.

	We think that a growing united circle of revolutionaries must also be the 
catalyst, as a strategic part of the minimum program, for the formation of 
united fronts for democracy and self-determination.  For instance, 
revolutionaries must lead efforts to organize a United Front for Afro 
American Self-Determination, to build the national, political,and class 
consciousness of the Afro American people so that a plebiscite can be held 
in which Afro Americans must address themselves to the question, "What 
Should Be the Relationship of the Afro American People to the United 
States?"

        It is also an important part of the democratic thrust of such an 
organization of revolutionaries that the call for a Democratic Workers' 
Party, a mass electoral style party, be put forth, which puts the united 
front against fascism into organizational form. The intention would be to 
unite the vast multinational working class and other democratic forces into 
a "legal" party which would oppose the parties of imperialism in general 
elections and other "legal" work.

       All these are different aspects of the same political dynamic.  It is 
catalyzed, made politically possible, only because of the existence of, and 
struggle for leadership in these formations, of genuine revolutionaries, 
committed to the complete overthrow of imperialism and national oppression.

       It is the view of Unity & Struggle that only those who seek to 
represent the most consistently revolutionary class, the multinational U.S. 
working class in alliance with other revolutionary forces, can provide true 
revolutionary leadership.  In order for its life to change, it is only the 
working class that must have the complete overthrow of imperialism.

       Certainly no United Front for Afro American Self Determination or 
Democratic Workers' Party would be worth anything--to the masses of the 
people--unless it were given leadership by the most revolutionary sector of 
society.  We should know this by now, given the spctacle of the co-optation 
of the black liberation movement by the black bourgeois' political cadre, 
highlighted as the Black Congressional Caucus, or the national organization 
of Black Elected Officials (ABC-LEO).  This should show us that the petty 
bourgeois, even of the oppressed nationalities, aims only to get in on the 
robbery and class corruption themselves, abandoning any real leadership of 
the liberation movement for status as "public officials" serving 
imperialism.

       The call "revolutionaries unite" must initiate a whole chain of 
political activity and organization.  The intense struggle inside the circle 
of revolutionaries, and sponsored by such a circle, must begin by addressing 
the question: what is revolution, what is a revolutionary, here in the 
United States today?  Ultimately that definition, which can only be gained 
through struggle, committed only to a higher level of unity, must begin to 
address itself directly to the questions of The People vs. Imperialism, and 
Labor vs. Capital, and the question of Socialism and Communism.  Unity & 
Struggle asserts that the truly revolutionary struggle must seek to 
eliminate monopoly capitalism and imperialism together with their class, 
national, and gender oppression.  That struggle is not one waged in academia 
behind closed doors.  This struggle will be the nuts and bolts of building a 
true organization needed to make revolution in the United States.

       We at U&S feel that in the more generalized call (Revolutionaries 
Unite) the most important result will be winning the advanced, the most 
progressive sector of the working class and other democratic forces, in that 
crossfire of theory and practice initiated by the struggle to unite 
revolutionaries, to communism!  Ultimately U&S is committed to the 
elimination of imperialism and national and gender oppression, the 
construction of Socialism and the eventual emergence of class free society, 
Communism.

Unity & Struggle


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1675
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-17 12:35:52
Subject:Faison Fight is Federal
Message:



>From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: <poprogress@egroups.com>, <coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] New Jersey Online Star-Ledger News
>Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:50:06 -0400
>
>New Jersey Online: Star-Ledger News
>
>             Sponsored By:
>>
>       Orange faults U.S. in Faison cop case
>
>       06/16/01
>
>       BY MARY JO PATTERSON
>       STAR-LEDGER STAFF
>
>       A lawyer representing the city of Orange filed legal papers 
>yesterday questioning the conduct of the U.S. Attorney's Office in the 
>prosecution of five Orange cops accused of civil rights violations in the 
>death of Earl Faison.
>
>
>       The five officers were found guilty of the charges last year, nearly 
>two years after Faison, a 27-year-old East Orange man, died in police 
>custody.
>
>
>       Two of the five have have since been cleared. The remaining three 
>have yet to be sentenced.
>
>
>       Relatives of Faison also brought lawsuits in the matter, naming the 
>city of Orange, its police department and various Essex County officials as 
>defendants.
>
>
>       Now Peter Till, a Springfield attorney representing Orange in the 
>civil actions, is seeking to intervene in the criminal case in the U.S. 
>District Court in Newark.
>
>
>       In court papers he states that federal prosecutors neglected to 
>disclose that Faison was autopsied twice -- and that the second autopsy 
>determined that his internal organs showed "no evidence of blunt force 
>trauma."
>
>
>       Central to the officers' convictions, Till maintains, were 
>allegations of "excessive force."
>
>
>       Public knowledge of the second autopsy, the court papers state, "may 
>mitigate the police officer defendants' guilt and . . . possibly invalidate 
>the jury's verdict."
>
>
>       The original autopsy, by an assistant state medical examiner, was 
>introduced at the officers' trial. It concluded that Faison died of asthma, 
>and made no mention of pepper spray.
>
>
>       The re-autopsy, commissioned by Faison's sister Kaytria, was 
>performed by Cyril Wecht, a pathologist in Pittsburgh. He found that Faison 
>died of asthma, "exacerbated by physical altercation and exposure to pepper 
>spray while in police custody," according to the court papers.
>
>
>       Till's motion asks that the U.S. Distict Court review the 
>"undisclosed" Wecht autopsy, consider whether its omission hurt the 
>officers' legal defense, and decide whether a new trial is warranted.
>
>
>       Michael Drewniak, spokesman for the U.S. Attorney, said the 
>government did not have the Wecht autopsy. "Our disclosure requirements are 
>limited to what we have in our possession," he said.
>
>
>       Wecht's conclusion on the cause of Faison's death was consistent 
>with testimony offered by government witnesses at trial, he added. "In 
>short, this is not exculpatory."
>
>
>       The Faison case was one of the most high-profile police brutality 
>cases in state history.
>
>
>       He was arrested April 11, 1999, during a manhunt for the killer of 
>Orange Police Officer Joyce Carnegie.
>
>
>       The federal government charged that the officers mistook Faison for 
>a suspect in her murder, beat him at the scene of his arrest after removing 
>a loaded gun from him, and further brutalized him at police headquarters by 
>blasting pepper spray into his face.
>
>
>       Faison, an aspiring rap artist who was on parole from state prison, 
>died of respiratory failure less than an hour after his arrest.
>
>
>       U.S. authorities accused the officers of violating Faison's rights 
>through physical abuse. But they never charged them with responsibility for 
>his death.
>
>
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1676
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-17 14:05:25
Subject:Kimako's blues people
Message:

Kimako's Blues People
808 South Tenth St.
Newark, Jersey
973 242 1346 FAX

Last Saturday Monthly 8pm

Saturday June 30th:

Amina & Amiri Baraka & Blue Ark: The Word Ship
"Homage to Black Revolutionaries"
w/ Dwight West, Vocals; Rahman Herbie Morgan,tenor; Wilbur Morris, Bass; 
Pheeroan Aklaff, Drums; DD Jackson, Piano

Ras Baraka, Poetry; open mike; Blue Plate, $8 includes grit

OPEN DISCUSSION: REPARATIONS, SELF-DETERMINATION & THE STRUGGLE FOR 
DEMOCRACY

call Louise for a ride (or directions) from NYC train or New Brunswick
732-545-7207
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1677
Sender:amirib@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-17 18:57:06
Subject:Re: [NB_CC_TF] revolutionary democracy & NJ assembly
Message:

Friends of Ras Baraka
****** 
Thurs June 21, 01 8pm
Central High School (MLK Blvd), Newark AFENI SHAKUR (ex Black Panther, 
Tupac’s Mother)
***************************************
WED June 27, 01 (Last Wednesdays) 8pm
BRIDGE CLUB 343 Washington St.
"Verse 4 Verse" NEW POETS NEW POETRY produced by Ras Baraka & Juba 
Dowdell
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
KIMAKO’S BLUE PEOPLE 
808 S.10TH ST. NEWARK, NJ.
(LAST SAT EVERY MONTH)
8PM 973 242-1346
Sat June 30 AMIRI & AMINA BARAKA &
Blue Ark: The Word Ship , Herbie Morgan,ts; Dwight West, V; Wilber Morris, b; 
DD Jackson, p; Pheeroan Aklaff,d
RAS BARAKA, POETRY



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1678
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-17 22:38:44
Subject:Re: [njfo] Re: QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Message:

Greg- Soaries is the Pastor of First Baptist Church in Franklin Township & 
appointed Sectratary of State by Whitman...Class struggle should actually be 
aimed against the main enemy, "the bushwackers", with p.b. as exposed as 
"ho"(ie-hore, as in opportunists) "chucking spears" for "the bigs" at the 
very people (masses) from whom they (the p.b.) derive their actual power.  
Hope that clears some things up.- Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: "geg vutrano" <gvutrano@...>
Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, can_bush@..., 
nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, coalitionforjustice@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [njfo] Re: QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 10:33:51 -0400


_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1679
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-17 22:42:33
Subject:Shaka Sankofa's son convicted
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, <coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [poprogress] Workers World April 5, 2001 Shaka Sankofa's son 
convicted
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 21:13:20 -0400

Workers World April 5, 2001: Shaka Sankofa's son convicted
            Send a link to this article

     -------------------------
     Via Workers World News Service
     Reprinted from the April 5, 2001
     issue of Workers World newspaper
     -------------------------

     Shaka Sankofa's son convicted
     'I will continue to fight'
     By Gloria Rubac
     Houston

     Hours after being sentenced to life in prison, Gary Hawkins sent a 
message to his supporters: "I want to say thank you everybody who has 
supported me and my family throughout this recent bout of injustice. This 
sort of wrongdoing by the state must not be accepted quietly. I am innocent 
and I will continue to fight. I believe that one day in the not-so-distant 
future, justice will finally be served in both my case and in my father's. 
Regardless of the latest outcome, I encourage you all not to give up. Stay 
motivated and stay proud. Justice will be ours!"

     Hawkins is the son of executed Texas prison activist Shaka Sankofa. 
Hawkins was convicted of capital murder March 27 in a Houston courtroom 
packed with supporters and family members. Since the state did not seek the 
death penalty, Hawkins was automatically sentenced to life in prison.

     Hawkins and his supporters were stunned as the verdict was read. There 
was absolutely no physical evidence or motive linking him to the murder of 
his good friend, Melvin Pope.

     "They've already taken my daddy away from me and now they want my 
brother," cried his sister, Deidra Hawkins.

     "This is another case of injustice and what will we do? We'll fight and 
we'll continue to struggle, that's what!" stated Njeri Shakur, an activist 
with the Texas Death Penalty Abolition Movement and a friend of both Sankofa 
and Hawkins.

     The only person who put Hawkins at the scene of the robbery and murder, 
Stanley White, admitted robbing Pope but was offered a deferred 10-year 
probated sentence in exchange for fingering Hawkins as the killer.

     "I can't see how they could have believed his lies," Hawkins told this 
reporter. "I never thought they'd come back with a guilty verdict--because I 
am innocent. But I felt something was wrong when the jury came back in with 
their heads hanging down. Two of them were crying when the judge polled each 
juror. How could those who thought I was innocent not be strong enough to 
hold their position?"

     In telephone conversations from the Harris County jail after his 
conviction, Hawkins reminisced with this reporter about the big 
demonstrations for his father back in 1993 that he participated in as a 
14-year-old.

     "I remember being outside the death house with my grandfather back then 
protesting the execution of a Mexican man and there were lots and lots of 
people there in Huntsville. I didn't think it would happen to my father. But 
I also remember when Ricardo Aldape Guerra was finally freed from death 
row--that was so great! That's what I wanted for my dad," Hawkins said.

     Activists from the Texas Death Penalty Abolition Movement, the 
S.H.A.P.E. Community Center, the National Black United Front, the Nation of 
Islam and the Huntsville 8 Support Committee, as well as family members, 
filled the courtroom every day of the weeklong trial. The Abolition Movement 
had held fundraisers to help pay attorney fees and collected cash donations 
during the trial to deposit in Hawkins' jail account for his 22nd birthday 
on the second day of trial. Street meetings and flyers generated support 
from many who had stood with his father up until his execution last June 22.

     What became apparent during the trial was that the Houston police did 
not even investigate the murder of a young Black male they found on the side 
of a street. Melvin Pope's cell phone was on the ground beside his body and 
his beeper was actually going off, yet not one phone number was recorded by 
the cops. Not a fingerprint was taken off anything, no blood was 
tested--until they found out the victim had been with Hawkins earlier in the 
day.

     Then they pushed full steam ahead to pin the murder on Hawkins, the son 
of the most widely known person executed in Texas in recent history.

     - END -

     (Copyright Workers World Service: Everyone is permitted to copy and 
distribute verbatim copies of this document, but changing it is not allowed. 
For more information contact Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011; via 
e-mail: ww@.... For subscription info send message to: 
info@.... Web: http://www.workers.org)



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1680
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-17 22:50:51
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Message:

Tracy- I'm not sure if the Bible attributes to Christianity any particular 
political affiliation or another...(It's be a trick to convince your god of 
it!)...but I do know of a particularly racist, fascist, 
endorser-of-profiling Nutley cop, Sgt. Steve Rogers, who claims that COP 
stands for Christians on Patrol...are you sure you want to carry the same 
line as him??? -MAtt


----Original Message Follows----
From: TRACYFORD1420@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
CC: can_bush@..., nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, 
njfo@yahoogroups.com, coalitionforjustice@egroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 02:55:24 -0400 (EDT)

JESUS SUPPORT PEACE & SO DO I. JESUS SUPPORT THE ENVIRONMENT & SO DO I.
JESUS SUPPORT PERSONAL GROWTH & SO DO I. JESUS SUPPORT CIVIL-RIGHTS & SO
DO I. JESUS SUPPORT HUMAN-RIGHTS & SO DO I. I CARRY THE JESUS'S
BLOODSTAIN BANNER OF LOVE. JESUS IS MY KARL MARX. PAUL IS MY LENIN. THIS
IS MY POLITICS AND REPUBLICAN PARTY IS THE PARTY OF THE RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE
WHO WANT LIVE IN DECENCY AND SELF-RESPECT. HOW ABOUT YOU?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1681
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-18 11:18:37
Subject:[nbpc] Re: [njfo] QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Message:

I can't hold my tongue on this one....Tracy, do you not work with
racist Republicans?


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., TRACYFORD1420@W... wrote:
> I AM HOLDING A FORUM. YOU DO NOT TELL JOE & CLIFF SMITH THAT WHEN THEY
> HOLDING A FORUM AND SPREADING THE WORD ABOUT THEIR FORUM. DO YOU
> KRISTINA BAS? ARE YOU AFRAID OF BOL/SWORD, KRISTINA BAS?? I AM SPREADING
> THE WORD ABOUT MY FORUM LIKE JOE & CLIFF DOES. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? I
> BELIEVE IN FREEDOM, JUSTICE, EQUALITY FOR ALL. DO YOU KRISTINA BAS
> BELIEVE THIS OR NOT??  OR ARE YOU A HYPOCRITICAL RACISTS?
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1682
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-18 15:06:59
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Message:

DO YOU NOT WORK WITH RACIST FASCIST LEFTISTS?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1683
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-18 15:20:07
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Message:

THESE PEOPLE CANNOT DEBATE ME WITH ME IN A PUBLIC FORUM. LIFE IS NOT A
DAGGER STAINED WITH THE BLOOD OF HATRED. IT IS A BRANCH FILLED WITH THE
FLOWERS OF LOVE AND COMPASSION.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1684
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-18 18:57:14
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: Supreme Court Upholds Use of Force in Guarding Vice President
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by shorepaulie@....

Can anyone decipher this double-talk?  I thought excessive force was excessive force? I guess the court thinks not.  Paul

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For general information about NYTimes.com, write to 
help@....  

Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1685
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-18 20:18:34
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Message:

soaries is also robert franks co-campaign manager for nj governor.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: can_bush@..., nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, 
>coalitionforjustice@egroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, 
>fbright!
>Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 02:38:44
>
>
>Greg- Soaries is the Pastor of First Baptist Church in Franklin Township &
>appointed Sectratary of State by Whitman...Class struggle should actually 
>be
>aimed against the main enemy, "the bushwackers", with p.b. as exposed as
>"ho"(ie-hore, as in opportunists) "chucking spears" for "the bigs" at the
>very people (masses) from whom they (the p.b.) derive their actual power.
>Hope that clears some things up.- Matt
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "geg vutrano" <gvutrano@...>
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, can_bush@...,
>nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, coalitionforjustice@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [njfo] Re: QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 10:33:51 -0400
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1686
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-18 20:23:15
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Message:

the bible says that in the end times republicans will be weeping & gnashing 
their teeth.

as hon. min. farrakhan recently put it, "in the beginning was the word. word 
up."

cs


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: can_bush@..., njfo@yahoogroups.com, 
>coalitionforjustice@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, 
>fbright!
>Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 02:50:51
>
>
>Tracy- I'm not sure if the Bible attributes to Christianity any particular
>political affiliation or another...(It's be a trick to convince your god of
>it!)...but I do know of a particularly racist, fascist,
>endorser-of-profiling Nutley cop, Sgt. Steve Rogers, who claims that COP
>stands for Christians on Patrol...are you sure you want to carry the same
>line as him??? -MAtt
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: TRACYFORD1420@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>CC: can_bush@..., nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com,
>njfo@yahoogroups.com, coalitionforjustice@egroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, 
>fbright!
>Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 02:55:24 -0400 (EDT)
>
>JESUS SUPPORT PEACE & SO DO I. JESUS SUPPORT THE ENVIRONMENT & SO DO I.
>JESUS SUPPORT PERSONAL GROWTH & SO DO I. JESUS SUPPORT CIVIL-RIGHTS & SO
>DO I. JESUS SUPPORT HUMAN-RIGHTS & SO DO I. I CARRY THE JESUS'S
>BLOODSTAIN BANNER OF LOVE. JESUS IS MY KARL MARX. PAUL IS MY LENIN. THIS
>IS MY POLITICS AND REPUBLICAN PARTY IS THE PARTY OF THE RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE
>WHO WANT LIVE IN DECENCY AND SELF-RESPECT. HOW ABOUT YOU?
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1687
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-18 23:26:08
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: QUIT republican party Skunk soaries, fbright!
Message:

I AM A MINISTER OF JESUS CHRIST BY THE WILL OF GOD, ACCORDING TO THE
PROMISE OF LIFE WHICH IS IN JESUS CHRIST. I HAVE  AND LIVE THE VISION OF
JESUS CHRIST. I SHARE AND PROMOTE THE VISION OF JESUS CHRIST. I TEACH
OTHERS HOW THEY CAN LIVE THE VISION OF JESUS CHRIST. ARE YOU FEELING
LOST AND CONFUSED ABOUT YOUR LIFE?? DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARE GOING IN
CIRCLES, FOREVER RUNNING, BUT GETTING NOWHERE FAST??  NO RISK. NO
REWARD??



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1688
Sender:Dwayne Middleton <nia7@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-19 00:52:08
Subject:CORRECTION: Verse 4 Verse
Message:

CORRECTION:  EVERY LAST WEDNESDAY!

VERSE 4 VERSE
Poetry Cafe

Wednesday, June 27, 2001

**********************
@ The Brand New
BRIDGE CLUB
343 Washington Street (DOWNTOWN)
Newark, NJ 07102
(Between Court Street & William Street)

************************************
Doors Open @ 7:00 PM
Showtime @ 8:00 PM

$8.00 Cover Charge

HOSTED BY
Ras Baraka & Juba Dowdell

Featured Artists
John Thomason &
Precious Gift featuring Tamara Davis

Music by
DA JOINT

Plus
OPEN MIC SHOWCASE

-----------------------------------------
CORRECTION:EVERY LAST WEDNESDAY
-----------------------------------------

For More Information Contact Trevor Phillips @
800.424.3192


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1689
Sender:jmluceno@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-19 11:22:59
Subject:Shut it down
Message:

This egroups gives me gas.  And to think that forming it was actually
my committee's responsibility.  <sigh>

For the record -- a year ago around this time, I was calling for
active suppression of Block on Lock's ability to distribute material
under the People's Campaign name, and I was met with resistance by the
people who are most vocally for suppressing Block on Lock's ability to
be associated with the Campaign now.  

For reasons which I don't have to explain, I find this highly ironic.  

Perhaps Joe/Cliff should set up their own egroup?  Maybe the City will
finance them to set up their own website where they can attack the
Campaign.

"nbpeoplescampaign" -- kill it!









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1690
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-19 12:07:37
Subject:What you can do about the evil Tenant-restricting ordinance
Message:

I just wanted to add to Mrs. Adevai's post regarding the evil anti-tenants 
ordinance:

There are a couple of things people can do.

The law is described in today's Home News:
http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,408940,00.html

1. COME TO THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING 6/20 @ 4PM if you can.  The meeting will 
probably run for less than an hour.  We need to keep up the presence as long 
as these unconstitutional laws are pending.

2. Write a letter that's short, respectful and to the point to the Home News 
Tribune stating that the 4pm city council meeting time is undemocratic and 
by nature opposed to open government. The city council is using evasive 
tactics to pass an unconstitutional law.

Below are ten suggested angles for letters.  I can verify all the 
information:

a. Council Pres. Recine said at the 6/16 meeting: "If the meetings are 
important to people, they'll make arrangements to be there, or they will 
send someone in their place.  Beyond that, we're not concerned...".

b. This proposed ordinance (as it read last week) included no voice for 
tenants in this effort "to improve New Brunswick's housing stock". This is a 
reactive law which primarily punishes tenants who live in housing which has 
long been neglected by both the city and landlords.
c. The city government has shown little or no motivation to construct new, 
affordable housing in our city.  They continue to support the demolition of 
rental housing while subsidizing large corporate office development.  The 
city regularly gives tax breaks and other forms of special treatment to 
corporate developers while renters pay up to $2500 per month for a 
sub-standard three bedroom apartment.

d. The city has no possible means of enforcing this law as it's been 
proposed. This ordinance can only lead to selective (arbitrary) enforcement 
which provides unequal justice for tenants who are forced to pay outrageous 
sums for lousy housing.

e. Demand full rent control as the real solution to overcrowded housing.  If 
rent control weren't repealed in the 80s, renters would have affordable 
housing, reducing overcrowding (and illegal conditions) and reducing the 
rate of wear on rental properties.

f. Demand an explanation of why the housing stock has been permitted to 
decay to its present point and regularly poses a safety and health threat to 
mainly low-income tenants.  Most of the city's tenants earn well under the 
median income for the Middlesex-Somerset-Hunterdon metropolitan statistical 
area and they are entitled to fair housing just like millionaires in Basking 
Ridge.



>From: Patricia Adevai <pcvca@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers <nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [nbpcmembers] NB council meeting - Tenancy ordinance
>Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:12:51 -0700 (PDT)
>
>To All
>
>I attended the agenda meeting today, Monday June 18.
>On Wednesday June 20, 2001 at 4pm a new version of the
>ordinance will be presented for 1st reading.  I have
>no idea what is in it!!  No copy was available.  Also
>no discussion about it.  The public can speak on
>Wednesday and a copy should be available.  The new
>ordinance will also be published sometime before the
>2nd reading.  It is IMPORTANT that you try to attend
>Wednesday to be sure that the name and noise
>conviction stuff is removed.  But be aware that even
>if the name and the noise conviction stuff is removed,
>this ordinance will effect you. There still is  the
>problem of posting number of occupants on your wall,
>the number of occupants that will be allowed in the
>apartment and the cost to the landlord of registration
>and the cost of inspection, which the landlord will
>most likely pass on to the tenant.  The problem with
>the number of occupants is the standard to determine
>the allowed occupancy.  The NB Propety Maintenace
>ordinance is more restrictive than the state law of
>NJ.  The NB Propety Maintenace code was first enacted
>sometime in 1978 (I think) and ever since, regardless
>of the state law, the city has been trying to enforce
>the stricter standard.  Some of you pay for a lot of
>garbage tickets, do you really want to pay for
>inspecions too?????
>  Remember   Wednesday, JUNE 20,2001 4PM  City Hall !!
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
>http://buzz.yahoo.com/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1691
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-19 13:56:56
Subject:Change the Name; Keep the Essence
Message:

Also for the record...regardless of it's limitations as a communications 
medium, 'nbpeoplescampaign' is still one of the more democratic spaces that 
we have.  If there seems to have been a preponderance of stupid shit posted 
on here, then one can only blame the lack of intelligible and relevant 
statements...At the risk of sounding *radical* it is clear by now that the 
bannings only exacerbated the antagonisms in the United Front and kept us 
from dealing directly with the real issues...as in, the nature of a United 
Front, and if the Peoples Campaign is, or ever was, intended to be one...I 
am still amazed by the lack of concensus on this.

If the problem was that people were tired of receiving 10 postings/day from 
the same person, then that could have been better dealt with, perhaps, by 
setting a limit to one post per day per person.  At least then people would 
spend more time actually doing things then spewing irrelevant shite into the 
virtual vacuum.  As it is, the  'nbpcmembers@tc' list is now dominated by 
landlords and lawyer types.  Which is cool, we're glad to have them; except 
banning the 'vocal minority' has actually alienated the Peoples Campaign 
even more from the hardest hit neighborhoods in NB.  This can be 
demonstrated objectively whether or not I or you like it.  Hey, it's a 
double edged sword, this "democracy".  But we have to learn how to work with 
it.  All of that said, I am in favor of changing the name of this group 
list.  It would be counterproductive if people got the impression that the 
Peoples Campaign is more of a revolutionary democratic United Front then it 
really is.

See you on Wednesday...

-Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: jmluceno@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Shut it down
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:22:59 -0000

This egroups gives me gas.  And to think that forming it was actually
my committee's responsibility.  <sigh>

For the record -- a year ago around this time, I was calling for
active suppression of Block on Lock's ability to distribute material
under the People's Campaign name, and I was met with resistance by the
people who are most vocally for suppressing Block on Lock's ability to
be associated with the Campaign now.

For reasons which I don't have to explain, I find this highly ironic.

Perhaps Joe/Cliff should set up their own egroup?  Maybe the City will
finance them to set up their own website where they can attack the
Campaign.

"nbpeoplescampaign" -- kill it!




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1692
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-19 14:00:20
Subject:Change the Name; Keep the Essence
Message:

Also for the record...regardless of it's limitations as a communications 
medium, 'nbpeoplescampaign' is still one of the more democratic spaces that 
we have.  If there seems to have been a preponderance of stupid shit posted 
on here, then one can only blame the lack of intelligible and relevant 
statements...At the risk of sounding *radical* it is clear by now that the 
bannings only exacerbated the antagonisms in the United Front and kept us 
from dealing directly with the real issues...as in, the nature of a United 
Front, and if the Peoples Campaign is, or ever was, intended to be one...I 
am still amazed by the lack of concensus on this.

If the problem was that people were tired of receiving 10 postings/day from 
the same person, then that could have been better dealt with, perhaps, by 
setting a limit to one post per day per person.  At least then people would 
spend more time actually doing things then spewing irrelevant shite into the 
virtual vacuum.  As it is, the  'nbpcmembers@tc' list is now dominated by 
landlords and lawyer types.  Which is cool, we're glad to have them; except 
banning the 'vocal minority' has actually alienated the Peoples Campaign 
even more from the hardest hit neighborhoods in NB.  This can be 
demonstrated objectively whether or not I or you like it.  Hey, it's a 
double edged sword, this "democracy".  But we have to learn how to work with 
it.  All of that said, I am in favor of changing the name of this group 
list.  It would be counterproductive if people got the impression that the 
Peoples Campaign is more of a revolutionary democratic United Front then it 
really is.

See you on Wednesday...

-Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: jmluceno@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Shut it down
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:22:59 -0000

This egroups gives me gas.  And to think that forming it was actually
my committee's responsibility.  <sigh>

For the record -- a year ago around this time, I was calling for
active suppression of Block on Lock's ability to distribute material
under the People's Campaign name, and I was met with resistance by the
people who are most vocally for suppressing Block on Lock's ability to
be associated with the Campaign now.

For reasons which I don't have to explain, I find this highly ironic.

Perhaps Joe/Cliff should set up their own egroup?  Maybe the City will
finance them to set up their own website where they can attack the
Campaign.

"nbpeoplescampaign" -- kill it!




To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1693
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-19 14:28:15
Subject:what to do about evil rent ordinance
Message:

This ordinance has been on the table for at least two months now.  The city
council is trying to squeek it by in the summer for some obvious reasons....

If anyone needs the skinny summary of the law
in plain english, email me personally and I'll give it to you.   Paul


   From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpcmembers] What you can do about the evil Tenant-restricting
ordinance
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:07:37 -0000

I just wanted to add to Mrs. Adevai's post regarding the evil anti-tenants
ordinance:

There are a couple of things people can do.

The law is described in today's Home News:
http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,408940,00.html

1. COME TO THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING 6/20 @ 4PM if you can.  The meeting
will
probably run for less than an hour.  We need to keep up the presence as
long
as these unconstitutional laws are pending.

2. Write a letter that's short, respectful and to the point to the Home
News
Tribune stating that the 4pm city council meeting time is undemocratic and
by nature opposed to open government. The city council is using evasive
tactics to pass an unconstitutional law.

Below are six suggested angles for letters. People should email them to
letters@..., The Home News' forum email.  I can verify all the
information:

a. Council Pres. Recine said at the 5/16 meeting: "If the meetings are
important to people, they'll make arrangements to be there, or they will
send someone in their place.  Beyond that, we're not concerned...".

b. This proposed ordinance (as it read last week) included no voice for
tenants in this effort "to improve New Brunswick's housing stock". This is
a
reactive law which primarily punishes tenants who live in housing which has
long been neglected by both the city and landlords.
c. The city government has shown little or no motivation to construct new,
affordable housing in our city.  They continue to support the demolition of
rental housing while subsidizing large corporate office development.  The
city regularly gives tax breaks and other forms of special treatment to
corporate developers while renters pay up to $2500 per month for a
sub-standard three bedroom apartment.

d. The city has no possible means of enforcing this law as it's been
proposed. This ordinance can only lead to selective (arbitrary) enforcement
which provides unequal justice for tenants who are forced to pay outrageous
sums for lousy housing.

e. Demand full rent control as the real solution to overcrowded housing.
If
rent control weren't repealed in the 80s, renters would have affordable
housing, reducing overcrowding (and illegal conditions) and reducing the
rate of wear on rental properties.

f. Demand an explanation of why the housing stock has been permitted to
decay to its present point and regularly poses a safety and health threat
to
mainly low-income tenants.  Most of the city's tenants earn well under the
median income for the Middlesex-Somerset-Hunterdon metropolitan statistical
area and they are entitled to fair housing just like millionaires in
Basking
Ridge.



    From: Patricia Adevai <pcvca@...>
Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpcmembers <nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [nbpcmembers] NB council meeting - Tenancy ordinance
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:12:51 -0700 (PDT)

To All

I attended the agenda meeting today, Monday June 18.
On Wednesday June 20, 2001 at 4pm a new version of the
ordinance will be presented for 1st reading.  I have
no idea what is in it!!  No copy was available.  Also
no discussion about it.  The public can speak on
Wednesday and a copy should be available.  The new
ordinance will also be published sometime before the
2nd reading.  It is IMPORTANT that you try to attend
Wednesday to be sure that the name and noise
conviction stuff is removed.  But be aware that even
if the name and the noise conviction stuff is removed,
this ordinance will effect you. There still is  the
problem of posting number of occupants on your wall,
the number of occupants that will be allowed in the
apartment and the cost to the landlord of registration
and the cost of inspection, which the landlord will
most likely pass on to the tenant.  The problem with
the number of occupants is the standard to determine
the allowed occupancy.  The NB Propety Maintenace
ordinance is more restrictive than the state law of
NJ.  The NB Propety Maintenace code was first enacted
sometime in 1978 (I think) and ever since, regardless
of the state law, the city has been trying to enforce
the stricter standard.  Some of you pay for a lot of
garbage tickets, do you really want to pay for
inspecions too?????
Remember   Wednesday, JUNE 20,2001 4PM  City Hall !!

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1694
Sender:"kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-19 15:07:38
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the Essence
Message:

to address several of your points, matt:

>If the problem was that people were tired of receiving 10 postings/day from
>the same person, then that could have been better dealt with, perhaps, by
>setting a limit to one post per day per person.  At least then people would
>spend more time actually doing things then spewing irrelevant shite into 
>the
>virtual vacuum.

this is a great suggestion that I would've love to heard a few months ago.

As it is, the  'nbpcmembers@tc' list is now dominated by
>landlords and lawyer types.

aside from the adevai's and Flavio, who exactly are you referring to? or is 
it because there's not rampant sloganeering it's not the "revolutionary 
front" you hope it to be? doesn't the fact that progressive landlords and 
"lawyer types" participate indicate that it is a true united front?

Which is cool, we're glad to have them; except
>banning the 'vocal minority' has actually alienated the Peoples Campaign
>even more from the hardest hit neighborhoods in NB.  This can be
>demonstrated objectively whether or not I or you like it.

please demonstrate this objectively to me...

It would be counterproductive if people got the impression that the
>Peoples Campaign is more of a revolutionary democratic United Front then it
>really is.

do you read what you're writing, matt? so a " revolutionary democratic 
united front" is supposed to be represented by vicious, slanderous, 
negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering? we are all just supposed to "put 
up with it" or, better yet, try to "out wit" cliff and joe at every turn?

This equates to the "love it or leave it" line so embraced by right-wing 
turds.

you misunderstand, i believe, the history of this egroup. people stopped 
writing relevent emails with opinions because they were tired of being 
harrassed for not being "REVOLUTIONARY" enough. not because they have 
nothing clever to say. That is the MO of BoL just keep arguing until 
everyone else just shuts up.

I believe the conflict is about the defining of 'revolutionary' and 'united 
front'. based on what you've written over the last few months, i think we 
disagree. i think this is okay , and i hope that we can look to  practical 
results to figure out what works in reality.

looking forward to wednesday,

kristina

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1695
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-19 16:27:55
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the Essence
Message:

Kris-

*My choice of phrasing "landlords & lawyer types", though not intended to be 
a put down, could be read as such.  I'll rephrase it more accurately & point 
out that the 'political line' of nbpcmembers is/has been dominated by the 
class consciousness of the 'progressive professional'.

*From my observations, SWORD has been closer to the working class community 
on the street, irregardless of the criticisms that have been made against 
them.  At one time, the NBPB Coalition held that honor.  but NJFO has been 
historically campus/student oriented and while the NBPC had made inroads 
into the community, it's base is still vastly made up of students & 
graduates.

*I'm unclear as to why you immmediately conclude that advocating 
'revolutionary democracy' equates to "vicious, slanderous,
negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering?"  I've consistantly criticized 
what I view to be 'ultra-leftist' tendencies and 'murder-mouth' 
sloganeering, but I refuse to give up my ideas and my experiences because 
I'm afraid I might be confused with someone else...I agree that it is time 
to move on and find a new basis for unity and not to keep beating the same 
old horse, but let the records note that I strongly feel that NJFO 'gave up' 
it's 'revolutionary democratic' *ideological conclusion* based on the hard 
fought and won experience of breaking out of the CU shell...in other words, 
the butterfly never left the branch.

This is why I now feel that the most pressing issue *still* is the nature of 
revolutionary democracy* and how that is represented in a United Front. (I 
think we agree that we disagree on this, but precisely what are the points 
of contention. What do we agree on, and what do we disagree on in substance 
not form.  If I curse and you don't like that, it doesn't get any closer to 
the heart of the matter.  But if I scream at you or slander you because 
you're not revolutionary enough, then it does get to the heart because it 
shows that I'm not that interested in building unity with you. I think we 
can agree on this much. Now how does this play out...)

* Two more things, and then I'll hang up and listen:
1. Please don't put words in my mouth and then compare them to those of 
"right-wing turds".
2. I also wish that I had thought of the idea to limit the # of postings to 
one-a-day 'back then'...for one thing, I was too preoccupied with my 
revelation that the peoples campaign was not acting as a United Front; that 
NJFO's president had a split with AB and was putting out a position against 
publishing U&S (no longer "March Seperately, Strike Together") to appease 
the Naderites, Republicans & Landlords; that folks were generally abandoning 
U&S as a collective organizer; and the big revalation that this tendency of 
bannings is just that: a tendency with a long history of trial and error 
with little to show for itself in terms of creating a 'pure' space for some 
kind of 'real' unity.

Look , Kris, we all have a relatively long history together.  It's hard to 
have things shaken up as much as they have been.  But alot will be 
determined by how we approach our potential for the future, beginning on 
Wed. I'm glad to be a part of the bridge building.  See you then.  Matt



----Original Message Follows----
From: "kristina bas" <KRISBAS@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the Essence
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 19:07:38

to address several of your points, matt:

 >If the problem was that people were tired of receiving 10 postings/day 
from
 >the same person, then that could have been better dealt with, perhaps, by
 >setting a limit to one post per day per person.  At least then people 
would
 >spend more time actually doing things then spewing irrelevant shite into
 >the
 >virtual vacuum.

this is a great suggestion that I would've love to heard a few months ago.

As it is, the  'nbpcmembers@tc' list is now dominated by
 >landlords and lawyer types.

aside from the adevai's and Flavio, who exactly are you referring to? or is
it because there's not rampant sloganeering it's not the "revolutionary
front" you hope it to be? doesn't the fact that progressive landlords and
"lawyer types" participate indicate that it is a true united front?

Which is cool, we're glad to have them; except
 >banning the 'vocal minority' has actually alienated the Peoples Campaign
 >even more from the hardest hit neighborhoods in NB.  This can be
 >demonstrated objectively whether or not I or you like it.

please demonstrate this objectively to me...

It would be counterproductive if people got the impression that the
 >Peoples Campaign is more of a revolutionary democratic United Front then 
it
 >really is.

do you read what you're writing, matt? so a " revolutionary democratic
united front" is supposed to be represented by vicious, slanderous,
negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering? we are all just supposed to "put
up with it" or, better yet, try to "out wit" cliff and joe at every turn?

This equates to the "love it or leave it" line so embraced by right-wing
turds.

you misunderstand, i believe, the history of this egroup. people stopped
writing relevent emails with opinions because they were tired of being
harrassed for not being "REVOLUTIONARY" enough. not because they have
nothing clever to say. That is the MO of BoL just keep arguing until
everyone else just shuts up.

I believe the conflict is about the defining of 'revolutionary' and 'united
front'. based on what you've written over the last few months, i think we
disagree. i think this is okay , and i hope that we can look to  practical
results to figure out what works in reality.

looking forward to wednesday,

kristina

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1696
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-19 16:29:43
Subject:Fwd: [motherlandcollective] A Midsummer's Night Longshot Party
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Mark Mikhael" <mrmikhael@...>
Reply-To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motherlandcollective] A Midsummer's Night Longshot Party
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:29:55 -0400

A Moveable Feast!!!

Come Celebrate the Publication
0f Long Shot 24 at The Cornelia Street Cafe


Thursday, June 21 @ Cornelia Street Cafe
29 Cornelia Street, NYC
6:30-8:00 p.m.
Featuring: Ira Cohen, Jackie Sheeler, Rick Pernod,
Cristin Aptowicz, Mark Mikhael
Cost: $6. (free drink included)
Contact: 212 989 9319  http://www.corneliastreetcafe.com

ABOUT THE NEW ISSUE: Long Shot #24 features an 85 page tribute to Beat Poet
(and yes, Legend) Gregory Corso. Included in the section is previously
unpublished Corso poetry and artwork. Also included are literary tributes by
Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Anne Waldman, Diane Di Prima, Maggie Estep, Ira
Cohen,Janine Pommy Vega, Ken Babbs, photos by Allen Ginsberg and much much
more. The other 100+ pages of the magazine feature new writing by Amiri
Baraka,Wanda Coleman, Tony Medina, Tuli Kupferberg and so much more it will
make your head swim. See our web page (address above) for the full scoop.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1697
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-20 05:55:12
Subject:July 4 to an Xslave?!!
Message:

celebrate july 4 with confederate flag burning and protest against white 
supremacy, ie. racist profiling, police brutality, redevelopment NB style...

help distribute this attachment and contact me for regular fliers. we must 
organize locally our national/international positions.

peoples' war on the right!
bury franks!

joe smith
committee to defeat racist profiling & police brutality
732.586.5535
_________________________________________________________________
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  ----------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1698
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-20 05:55:10
Subject:July 4 to an Xslave?!!
Message:

celebrate july 4 with confederate flag burning and protest against white 
supremacy, ie. racist profiling, police brutality, redevelopment NB style...

help distribute this attachment and contact me for regular fliers. we must 
organize locally our national/international positions.

peoples' war on the right!
bury franks!

joe smith
committee to defeat racist profiling & police brutality
732.586.5535
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

  ----------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1699
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-20 05:59:26
Subject:trying again
Message:

should be here now...
_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1700
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-21 00:12:44
Subject:Fwd: Vieques Protesters Stop Bombing---Desobedientes civiles detienen bombardeo
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Vieques Libre" <viequeslibre@...>
To: List Member <vivaohio@...>
Subject: Vieques Protesters Stop Bombing---Desobedientes civiles detienen 
bombardeo
Date: 21 Jun 2001 02:41:02 -0000

Vieques Libre - http://www.viequeslibre.org

--------------------------- ListBot Sponsor --------------------------
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010620/wl/vieques_bombing_20.html


Wednesday June 20 6:23 PM ET


Vieques Protesters Stop Bombing Run

By MARCELO BALLVE, Associated Press Writer

VIEQUES, Puerto Rico (AP) - Security officials detained two protesters
Wednesday after they allegedly ignited a warning flare from the edge of
the Vieques island firing range, forcing Navy jets to abort a bombing
exercise.

``The important thing is that we identified these guys before the aircraft
came in and were able to ensure that nobody got hurt,'' said Lt. Cmdr.
Katherine Goode, a Navy spokeswoman.

Protesters have been invading the Navy's land in hopes of blocking the
latest in six decades of bombing exercises that they charge have harmed
the environment and health of people on the outlying Puerto Rican island.

Activists have not been appeased by President Bush (news - web sites)'s
announcement last week that the Navy will withdraw in two years, saying
the bombing should stop immediately.

Goode said that around 1 p.m., as jets were flying in for the first
bombing sortie of the day, two men were spotted and one let off a flare.

``They were just outside the range,'' Goode said. ``They were close enough
for us to turn the aircraft around. We have a wide safety margin.''

She would not give more details, but the Navy has been dropping 25-pound
and 500-pound dummy bombs since it resumed exercises here on Monday.

The two protesters were detained, and Goode said the Navy was closing the
range temporarily to search for other trespassers.

``We won't reopen the range until they've done a thorough enough sweep to
ensure there's nobody else out there,'' she said.

The Navy previously has insisted that its land was free of protesters
before it started bombing runs, while activist groups have published the
names of protesters they said were on range.

Protest leader Robert Rabin said it was not the first time protesters were
there when the jets came over.

``This has been constant,'' he said. ``The Navy won't admit it. They're
still saying there are no people out there.''

Rabin, who keeps in contact with protesters in Navy land, said the
protesters also had placed a large sign declaring ``Fuera la Marina'' -
Navy get out.

Rabin is among a small group of activists and environmentalists whose
years-long campaign to stop the bombing became an island-wide cause after
two stray bombs killed a civilian guard on the range in 1999.

The cause has attracted supporters within the U.S. civil rights movement.
The wife of civil rights campaigner Jesse Jackson, Jacqueline Jackson, was
jailed Tuesday for trespassing. The Rev. Al Sharpton was sentenced to 90
days for trespassing during May exercises and has been on a hunger strike
in a New York jail since May 29.

On Wednesday, Jesse Jackson said he will travel to Puerto Rico on Friday
to visit his jailed wife.

``She is spiritually resolved to use her presence and her suffering to
help stop the bombing in Vieques,'' Jackson said by telephone from Los
Angeles. The Jacksons lead the Chicago-based Rainbow/Push Coalition civil
rights group.

Jackson said he had no plans to try to enter Navy land himself.

``We want to meet with President Bush to ask him to stop the bombing now -
not wait until 2003,'' Jackson said. He said he had called the White House
on Wednesday to ask for a meeting with congressional and religious leaders
but had not yet received a response.

Meanwhile, the Navy said that a destroyer participating in the exercises,
the USS Ross, struck and killed a whale.

Sailors had received special courses in spotting whales, but the animal
was submerged when the ship hit it Monday, Navy spokesman Bob Nelson said.

Sailors spotted the carcass floating in the water, Nelson said. It was not
clear what type of whale it was. ``It's an unfortunate accident,'' he said.

Activists have begun a campaign to persuade islanders to vote for an
immediate end to the exercises in a nonbinding referendum scheduled by the
Puerto Rican government for July 29.

The July 29 referendum gives Vieques residents the option to demand the
Navy leave immediately. A federal government-sanctioned referendum
scheduled in November only allows islanders to decide whether the Navy
should stay or leave in 2003.


=============================================
El Nuevo D�a

Desobedientes civiles detienen pr�cticas

mi�rcoles, 20 de junio de 2001


VIEQUES (EFE) - Dos desobedientes civiles lograron detener hoy en la tarde
los bombardeos de la Marina de Guerra de los Estados Unidos en el pol�gono
de tiro en Vieques. El dato fue confirmado a EFE por Roberto Nelson,
portavoz de asuntos p�blicos de la Marina en la base Roosevelt Roads en
Vieques.

Nelson explic� que aviones destacados en el portaaviones Teodoro Roosevelt
se aprestaban a iniciar sus vuelos y lanzar bombas, pero dos desobedientes
aparecieron en el pol�gono de tiro.

De inmediato, los dos desobedientes, cuya identidad no ofreci� Nelson,
fueron detenidos para ser procesados por el delito menos graves de
traspasar una zona restringida del gobierno federal.

Nelson a�adi� que tan pronto se certifique que en la zona no hay m�s
personas se continuar� con los bombardeos aire tierra.

El portavoz del Comit� pro Rescate y Desarrollo de Vieques, Robert Rabin,
asegur� que los dos desobedientes portaban banderas que le�an "Paz para
Vieques" y "Fuera la Marina".

Los bombardeos detenidos por los desobedientes iban a ser los primeros que
se efectuaban hoy, mi�rcoles, en Vieques, pues s�lo se ha bombardeado en
alta mar en las aguas cercanas a la isla estadounidense de de Santa Cruz.


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1701
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-21 00:38:15
Subject:Re: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the Essence
Message:

Totally agreed that the movement needs "technicians and progressive 
professionsals...(look, i'm a college student studying to be an architect 
which is about as technical  as you can get)  But the point is that we need 
to sort out the question of what the United Front is, and why the campaign 
lacked a working class base.

Here's an anecdote: I was just working with this third-wrold grassroots 
coalition on building a full scale model house in the United Nations for a 
convention on low-income housing.  After a week of working together, I asked 
their leader, Jokin, an old Indian man, how I could join the organization.  
He looked at me puzzled, and asked me, WHy do you ask how you can join what 
you've already joined?!  That's the difference in the mode of organizing, 
and it's a consciousness that comes *from* the grassroots, *not* the 
technical progressives.  & When I say that there is a dominant tendancy, or 
ideology, that represents the "progressive professional" it doesn't mean 
that you, Flavio, not needed (BTW I haven't had my court date rescheduled 
yet ;)  ...it means that something else is lacking, and has historically 
been so. And that is the working class.  & It is only with working class 
consciousness that **revolutionary democracy** will not be compromised, 
because the W.C. doesn't have the option of "getting jobs" like so many of 
our parents generation did......So it is *of necessity* that the W.C. will 
ultimately inspire all of us progressive and revolutionary technicians to 
get it together and participate in the construction of an actual United 
Front against this mess. and for democracy, by any means necessary.

-Matt

----Original Message Follows----
From: Groovemeister007@...
Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the Essence
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:56:10 -0000

It is my understanding that even Mao advocated that political leaders
had to be both "red and expert," i.e. to understand both politics as
well as more technical matters such as industry (or even law).
Not "red and ignorant" or "red and alienating."  As he explained, a
person with only a political line is "pseudo-red, empty-headedly
political."

The campaign needs technicians in its ranks.  I also believe that to
be "advanced" one must have more than a class consciousness.  While
petition signatures were being collected for the 2000 board of ed and
municipal elections, some turkeys decided it would be permissible to
get signatures from people living in _North_ Brunswick (which are
invalid in a _New_ Brunswick election).  Just recently, some other
turkeys on the other egroup advocated letters to USA Cleary asking
him to "overturn" a judge's ruling nullifying a jury verdict (Can't
happen because of separation of powers).  One point of the NBPC
platform demands: "Pass rent control legislation to stop all rent
increases except those necessary to preserve a fair rate of return
for landlords' investments, such as to cover repairs and improvements
to building by the owner, requiring the approval of a democratically-
elected Rent Control Board and never to exceed cost of living
increase for that year."  This is despite the fact that NB has just
such a rent control ordinance, albeit one that is
underenforced/unenforced and without vacancy control.  Shouldn't the
nonenforcement/vacancy control have been the emphasis of the rent
point, rather than demanding something already on the books?

I could go on but in sum, my question is: who is doing the technical
homework on our political work and outreach?

Credibility matters, whether we like it or not.  Part of credibility
is technical accuracy.  (Proper grammar, spelling, and use of English
capitalization rules also help, a point sorely lost on many of the
purportedly "advanced" people who are using the other egroup).
Technical accuracy and the precision of a message can be enhanced by
welcoming progressives into the campaign who share the campaign's
goals and who have the relevant technical and professional
knowledge.  Indeed, if we are going to participate in electoral
politics, I'd rather have the progressive technician who understands
how to get our candidates' names on the ballot participating in,
even "dominating" things, rather than the sloganeer whose can mouth
a "purer" political consciousness than that of the progressive
technician/professional.




--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
 > Kris-
 >
 > *My choice of phrasing "landlords & lawyer types", though not
intended to be
 > a put down, could be read as such.  I'll rephrase it more
accurately & point
 > out that the 'political line' of nbpcmembers is/has been dominated
by the
 > class consciousness of the 'progressive professional'.
 >
 > *From my observations, SWORD has been closer to the working class
community
 > on the street, irregardless of the criticisms that have been made
against
 > them.  At one time, the NBPB Coalition held that honor.  but NJFO
has been
 > historically campus/student oriented and while the NBPC had made
inroads
 > into the community, it's base is still vastly made up of students &
 > graduates.
 >
 > *I'm unclear as to why you immmediately conclude that advocating
 > 'revolutionary democracy' equates to "vicious, slanderous,
 > negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering?"  I've consistantly
criticized
 > what I view to be 'ultra-leftist' tendencies and 'murder-mouth'
 > sloganeering, but I refuse to give up my ideas and my experiences
because
 > I'm afraid I might be confused with someone else...I agree that it
is time
 > to move on and find a new basis for unity and not to keep beating
the same
 > old horse, but let the records note that I strongly feel that
NJFO 'gave up'
 > it's 'revolutionary democratic' *ideological conclusion* based on
the hard
 > fought and won experience of breaking out of the CU shell...in
other words,
 > the butterfly never left the branch.
 >
 > This is why I now feel that the most pressing issue *still* is the
nature of
 > revolutionary democracy* and how that is represented in a United
Front. (I
 > think we agree that we disagree on this, but precisely what are the
points
 > of contention. What do we agree on, and what do we disagree on in
substance
 > not form.  If I curse and you don't like that, it doesn't get any
closer to
 > the heart of the matter.  But if I scream at you or slander you
because
 > you're not revolutionary enough, then it does get to the heart
because it
 > shows that I'm not that interested in building unity with you. I
think we
 > can agree on this much. Now how does this play out...)
 >
 > * Two more things, and then I'll hang up and listen:
 > 1. Please don't put words in my mouth and then compare them to
those of
 > "right-wing turds".
 > 2. I also wish that I had thought of the idea to limit the # of
postings to
 > one-a-day 'back then'...for one thing, I was too preoccupied with
my
 > revelation that the peoples campaign was not acting as a United
Front; that
 > NJFO's president had a split with AB and was putting out a position
against
 > publishing U&S (no longer "March Seperately, Strike Together") to
appease
 > the Naderites, Republicans & Landlords; that folks were generally
abandoning
 > U&S as a collective organizer; and the big revalation that this
tendency of
 > bannings is just that: a tendency with a long history of trial and
error
 > with little to show for itself in terms of creating a 'pure' space
for some
 > kind of 'real' unity.
 >
 > Look , Kris, we all have a relatively long history together.  It's
hard to
 > have things shaken up as much as they have been.  But alot will be
 > determined by how we approach our potential for the future,
beginning on
 > Wed. I'm glad to be a part of the bridge building.  See you then.
Matt
 >



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1702
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-22 11:58:06
Subject:working class base?
Message:

Matt wrote:  But the point is that we need
> to sort out ... why the campaign lacked a working class base.

Paul writes:  Yea, I think that's the bottom line issue here.  Matthew
and others have contended that we didn't reach the working class with
the NBPC.  I can't think of many things farther from the truth.  I've
personally tried to convey this so many times....that we spoke with
thousands of working class people  who were down with community
control, down with the platform, down with democracy.

As some may guess, many of these working class people whom I
personally met can talk the issues much better than some local
'organizers' and many of the 'advanced' who need to learn to listen.

You say we didn't have a working class base, but the platform was
derived from conversation with mainly working class people.  The
tactics on canvass were derived mainly from conversations, that is,
informal agitation and propaganda among the broad mass of working
class people in NB.  We reinforced our emphases based on continued
interaction.  We had working class people out in the field, in our
meetings, working on election day, spreading the buzz of the NBPC, etc.

But you may still say we lacked working class base.

As a communist, I'll say that our most important job is to represent
working class interests whenever and wherever possible.  I think my
arguments, which are well-honed now that I've repeated them so many
times, stand for themselves.  You can say my premises are wrong and my
experience non-scientific, but that's how I and others stand on the
campaign experience.

As far as getting out the working class vote goes,  we don't yet know
what percentage of our vote was working class.  I think that deserves
much attention:  at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other night,
the NBPC was roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which
revolutionaries sold out their principles to form partnerships with
pro-Bush forces.

That conclusion, embraced mainly by the far Left among us, ignores the
political experience of the campaign as it relates to the political
experience of the working class voters of NB.  To dismiss the campaign
on the grounds of two strategic alliances which barely affected
tactics is to ignore the largest question of progressive and
revolutionary politics....that is:   how do we mobilize the working
class and in doing that, what tasks are principal for pro-democratic
forces who would mobilize the political disfranchised classes. Any
analysis of these questions has to take practice into account. But
this type of practice was not on the agenda on Wednesday in Newark.

If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it certainly
exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who contend that
the campaign didn't have a working class base, that the campaign was
not revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without detailed
investigation.

I don't think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened to to
pro-NBPC arguments. That's not only unprinicipled, but opportunist
because they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
revolutionary practice of the campaign.  This dissing of revolutionary
practice is predicated on the less-significant alliances formed with
Greens and Republicans.

It's precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current trends in
revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem credible in
this ongoing debate.


I'm going to end with a question, because now I'm listening---
Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our practice?



--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
>
> Totally agreed that the movement needs "technicians and progressive
> professionsals...(look, i'm a college student studying to be an
architect
> which is about as technical  as you can get)  But the point is that
we need
> to sort out the question of what the United Front is, and why the
campaign
> lacked a working class base.
>
> Here's an anecdote: I was just working with this third-wrold grassroots
> coalition on building a full scale model house in the United Nations
for a
> convention on low-income housing.  After a week of working together,
I asked
> their leader, Jokin, an old Indian man, how I could join the
organization.
> He looked at me puzzled, and asked me, WHy do you ask how you can
join what
> you've already joined?!  That's the difference in the mode of
organizing,
> and it's a consciousness that comes *from* the grassroots, *not* the
> technical progressives.  & When I say that there is a dominant
tendancy, or
> ideology, that represents the "progressive professional" it doesn't
mean
> that you, Flavio, not needed (BTW I haven't had my court date
rescheduled
> yet ;)  ...it means that something else is lacking, and has
historically
> been so. And that is the working class.  & It is only with working
class
> consciousness that **revolutionary democracy** will not be compromised,
> because the W.C. doesn't have the option of "getting jobs" like so
many of
> our parents generation did......So it is *of necessity* that the
W.C. will
> ultimately inspire all of us progressive and revolutionary
technicians to
> get it together and participate in the construction of an actual United
> Front against this mess. and for democracy, by any means necessary.
>
> -Matt
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Groovemeister007@y...
> Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> To: nbpcmembers@y...
> Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the Essence
> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:56:10 -0000
>
> It is my understanding that even Mao advocated that political leaders
> had to be both "red and expert," i.e. to understand both politics as
> well as more technical matters such as industry (or even law).
> Not "red and ignorant" or "red and alienating."  As he explained, a
> person with only a political line is "pseudo-red, empty-headedly
> political."
>
> The campaign needs technicians in its ranks.  I also believe that to
> be "advanced" one must have more than a class consciousness.  While
> petition signatures were being collected for the 2000 board of ed and
> municipal elections, some turkeys decided it would be permissible to
> get signatures from people living in _North_ Brunswick (which are
> invalid in a _New_ Brunswick election).  Just recently, some other
> turkeys on the other egroup advocated letters to USA Cleary asking
> him to "overturn" a judge's ruling nullifying a jury verdict (Can't
> happen because of separation of powers).  One point of the NBPC
> platform demands: "Pass rent control legislation to stop all rent
> increases except those necessary to preserve a fair rate of return
> for landlords' investments, such as to cover repairs and improvements
> to building by the owner, requiring the approval of a democratically-
> elected Rent Control Board and never to exceed cost of living
> increase for that year."  This is despite the fact that NB has just
> such a rent control ordinance, albeit one that is
> underenforced/unenforced and without vacancy control.  Shouldn't the
> nonenforcement/vacancy control have been the emphasis of the rent
> point, rather than demanding something already on the books?
>
> I could go on but in sum, my question is: who is doing the technical
> homework on our political work and outreach?
>
> Credibility matters, whether we like it or not.  Part of credibility
> is technical accuracy.  (Proper grammar, spelling, and use of English
> capitalization rules also help, a point sorely lost on many of the
> purportedly "advanced" people who are using the other egroup).
> Technical accuracy and the precision of a message can be enhanced by
> welcoming progressives into the campaign who share the campaign's
> goals and who have the relevant technical and professional
> knowledge.  Indeed, if we are going to participate in electoral
> politics, I'd rather have the progressive technician who understands
> how to get our candidates' names on the ballot participating in,
> even "dominating" things, rather than the sloganeer whose can mouth
> a "purer" political consciousness than that of the progressive
> technician/professional.
>
>
>
>
> --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
>  > Kris-
>  >
>  > *My choice of phrasing "landlords & lawyer types", though not
> intended to be
>  > a put down, could be read as such.  I'll rephrase it more
> accurately & point
>  > out that the 'political line' of nbpcmembers is/has been dominated
> by the
>  > class consciousness of the 'progressive professional'.
>  >
>  > *From my observations, SWORD has been closer to the working class
> community
>  > on the street, irregardless of the criticisms that have been made
> against
>  > them.  At one time, the NBPB Coalition held that honor.  but NJFO
> has been
>  > historically campus/student oriented and while the NBPC had made
> inroads
>  > into the community, it's base is still vastly made up of students &
>  > graduates.
>  >
>  > *I'm unclear as to why you immmediately conclude that advocating
>  > 'revolutionary democracy' equates to "vicious, slanderous,
>  > negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering?"  I've consistantly
> criticized
>  > what I view to be 'ultra-leftist' tendencies and 'murder-mouth'
>  > sloganeering, but I refuse to give up my ideas and my experiences
> because
>  > I'm afraid I might be confused with someone else...I agree that it
> is time
>  > to move on and find a new basis for unity and not to keep beating
> the same
>  > old horse, but let the records note that I strongly feel that
> NJFO 'gave up'
>  > it's 'revolutionary democratic' *ideological conclusion* based on
> the hard
>  > fought and won experience of breaking out of the CU shell...in
> other words,
>  > the butterfly never left the branch.
>  >
>  > This is why I now feel that the most pressing issue *still* is the
> nature of
>  > revolutionary democracy* and how that is represented in a United
> Front. (I
>  > think we agree that we disagree on this, but precisely what are the
> points
>  > of contention. What do we agree on, and what do we disagree on in
> substance
>  > not form.  If I curse and you don't like that, it doesn't get any
> closer to
>  > the heart of the matter.  But if I scream at you or slander you
> because
>  > you're not revolutionary enough, then it does get to the heart
> because it
>  > shows that I'm not that interested in building unity with you. I
> think we
>  > can agree on this much. Now how does this play out...)
>  >
>  > * Two more things, and then I'll hang up and listen:
>  > 1. Please don't put words in my mouth and then compare them to
> those of
>  > "right-wing turds".
>  > 2. I also wish that I had thought of the idea to limit the # of
> postings to
>  > one-a-day 'back then'...for one thing, I was too preoccupied with
> my
>  > revelation that the peoples campaign was not acting as a United
> Front; that
>  > NJFO's president had a split with AB and was putting out a position
> against
>  > publishing U&S (no longer "March Seperately, Strike Together") to
> appease
>  > the Naderites, Republicans & Landlords; that folks were generally
> abandoning
>  > U&S as a collective organizer; and the big revalation that this
> tendency of
>  > bannings is just that: a tendency with a long history of trial and
> error
>  > with little to show for itself in terms of creating a 'pure' space
> for some
>  > kind of 'real' unity.
>  >
>  > Look , Kris, we all have a relatively long history together.  It's
> hard to
>  > have things shaken up as much as they have been.  But alot will be
>  > determined by how we approach our potential for the future,
> beginning on
>  > Wed. I'm glad to be a part of the bridge building.  See you then.
> Matt
>  >
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1703
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-23 17:37:22
Subject:beat egan! barber for assembly!
Message:

nb city councilman &cahill cohort joe egan is running in the 
democratic primary for state assembly (17th district-nb, franklin, 
no.br., pisc, hp...). 

egan actively opposes women's abortion rights, for example.

egan is opposed by franklin resident dick barber, former pres, nb 
naacp, and former member of national naacp exec board, among other 
positions.

barber 100% claims support for women's reproductive rights.

the election is tuesday, 26 june. volunteers are needed!

contact cliff smith 214.8828 asap.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1704
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-24 11:42:36
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: For Women at the Top, Something Is Missing: Social, Wifely Support
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....

nytimes most emailed article 6/24/01
towards the discussion of the woman question




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For Women at the Top, Something Is Missing: Social, Wifely Support


By MARY WILLIAMS WALSH

As women ascend to the top of corporate America, many find they are
at an odd disadvantage: there's no such thing as a corporate
husband.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/24/business/24HUSB.html?ex=994397356&ei=1&en=bd84ffbec5502c46

/-----------------------------------------------------------------\


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most authoritative news coverage on the Web,
updated throughout the day.

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HOW TO ADVERTISE
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1705
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-24 13:25:43
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: 'Lumumba': In a Mirror on Africa, a Hero Unfairly Tarnished
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by cliffsmith69@....



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\----------------------------------------------------------/

'Lumumba': In a Mirror on Africa, a Hero Unfairly Tarnished

MOVIES
By ALAN RIDING

Raoul Peck's new movie about Patrice Lumumba, the Congo's first
elected prime minister, is almost inevitably an exercise in
historical reclamation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/24/arts/24RIDI.html?ex=994403542&ei=1&en=03d5c06624bbed95

/-----------------------------------------------------------------\


Visit NYTimes.com for complete access to the
most authoritative news coverage on the Web,
updated throughout the day.

Become a member today! It's free!

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\-----------------------------------------------------------------/

HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters 
or other creative advertising opportunities with The 
New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson 
Racer at alyson@... or visit our online media 
kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo

For general information about NYTimes.com, write to 
help@....  

Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1707
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-24 17:59:20
Subject:Re: [nbpc] (unknown)
Message:


<< In the '00 formation of the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign, this same 
 "Boycott!"/"Expel!" element encouraged all Campaign members to register 
 Republican (as against the "local" Democratic machine), orchestrated the 
 local Republican Party chairmanship of anti-Communist Frank Bright, put 
 Bright on the Campaign steering committee (over our local activist Black 
 youth, Jason Hankins), enabled Bright's anti-Communist slander of Joe Smith, 
 defended long-time Republican Curtis Warren's pro-imperialist violations of 
 the Campaign program, and finally, again, expelled myself, Joe Smith, Nicole 
 Engel, Tamara Dahan, Jason Hankins, and Nestor Valdez from the Campaign 
 after we attacked this "Revolutionary"/Republican Alliance.  The Campaign 
 lost.  As did the Elected School Board Campaign.  We are currently persona 
 non grata in the Peoples' Campaign, and have been expelled from its internet 
 site. >>


Concerning this section, Cliff, your reminisces are inaccurate, to say the 
least. My "slander" was to ask Joe "Are you going to use the Elected School 
Board Question to further a Marxist party?" He said "Yeah." And another 
candidate was nominated, by myself, that I felt would promote the question 
for what it is: a move to democracy that would greatly benefit the education 
of our youth. Instead of reacting in a personally harsh attitude to people 
because they engage in fair, direct democracy, perhaps it would be better to 
engage people where they are at. In the time before you were expelled, you 
personally and unfairly attacked at least a half dozen people in the most 
nasty and unpedagogical ways. Therefore, to call me an anti-Communist is 
wrong. If anything I was and still am "anti-nasty."

My chairmanship was supported by many different groups and has given the 
people a voice in redistricting, polling sites, fairer general elections and 
a Housing Authority board that is more resident oriented. It has also 
illustrated by working together in fairness and respect to the principles of 
direct democracy, we can vote the current regime out.

I am writing this in peace.






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1708
Sender:"Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-25 19:45:58
Subject:Working class base
Message:

I am glad that Paul took the time to respond to the U&S forum. 
Unfortunately, he stepped back from the points that we agreed upon at that 
meeting.
  One of the problems that has become apparent is that we don't have 
agreement on some basic terminology. First is the term "working class base".
Paul writes:

"Matthew and others have contended that we didn�t reach the working
class with the NBPC.  I can�t think of many things farther from the truth.  
I�ve personally tried to convey this so many times..that we spoke with 
thousands of working class people  who were down with community control, 
down with the platform, down with democracy."

Paul believes that a base of support is determined by who you canvas and if 
they like what you say.  This is not what Marxist-Leninists mean by base.  
We mean who is the leadership and who is the active body of the campaign. To 
have a working class base you must have working class leadership and working 
class membership. To be scientific, to base ourselves on the facts of this 
issue just count. Are there more students than workers in the campaign?   
Just review the videotapes of the NBPC meetings and you will see that it is 
made up of students and led by students or former students. This is a simple 
fact.  You are confusing the idea of a base with sympathy.
    That there was working class sympathy no one is denying, this sympathy 
is what Paul experienced when he canvased. Some people who are looking for 
excuses say that working people don't have time for meetings. This is not 
true, they don't have time for meetings that they see as pointless but many 
workers spend entire Sundays at church
and weeknights studying the bible. Many working peiople are very active we 
just have not combined and networked with them because we want them to join 
us rather than joining them.
Further along Paul wrote:
"As a communist, I�ll say that our most important job is to represent
working class interests whenever and wherever possible."
We also disagree here. As Communists our main task is to organize the
working class so that they can seize power. As Lejin explained in What is to 
be done fuse socialist consiousness with the working class movemnt. The 
middle class claiming to represent working class interests is a long 
standing problem in the U.S. movement. See the movie Reds for instance or 
better yet check out the history. Look at the split between Malcom and the 
NOI. That is a class split. That is the working class struggling against the 
petty-bourgeois for leadership of the movement.

Paul continues:
"...at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other night, the NBPC was
roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which revolutionaries sold 
out their principles to form partnerships with pro-Bush forces."

Paul, that is simply not true. The campaign was not dismissed and certainly 
not as adventurist (the mistakes were actually conservative not 
adventurist).
What did happen is that we were able to come to an agreemnet as to some 
specific facts. First, we agreed it was a mistke that the campaign did not 
put forward any national agenda, program, or principles  in any consistent 
way. Second there was no discussion of the presidential race whatsoever, and 
that such duiscussion was actively suppressed by the campaign itself. Paul 
is here back peddaling because these are facts and if they are agreed upon 
facts then they must be answered for. Why was there no discussion of 
national politics? Answer that question and we will be getting somewhere.

Paul makes this point when he writes:
"To dismiss the campaign on the grounds of two strategic alliances which 
barely affected tactics is to ignore the largest question of progressive and 
revolutionary politics"

Paul, the "two strategic alliances" you are referring to are with the
Greens and Republicans.  I don't have any problem with those alliances so 
long as they do not result in compromises of principle and political line. 
you say the alliances "barely affected tactics" are you making a joke?  The 
campaign did not attack the serial
killer from texas who has since stolen the presidency because we had
republican allies. The campaign did not make it clear that Nader's candidacy 
was aiding and abieting Bush 2 because we had allies in the Green party. The 
working class knows that. The working class line in November was Beat Bush! 
Demand more from Gore!
The definition of opportunism, Paul,  is to make long term sacrifices
for short term gains. The thinking behind the compromises is textbook 
opportunism. I don't know how elese to understand your statment that we are 
ignoring the "largest question of revolutionary politics". Paul, what is the 
largest question of revolutionary politics and how big is it. To dismiss the 
national for the local and revolution for reform, and this is precesly what 
was done, is opportunism.
We fight for democracy because we want socialsim, we fight for reforms 
because we want revolution and we fight locally because that is how we make 
change nationally and internationlly. But to dismiss the ends because it is 
easier to fight for democrcay without talking aout socialism and it is 
easier to fight for reforms without talking about revolution this is 
social-democracy not marxism-leninism. Check out Lenin on Bernstein if you 
are interested.
Paul wrote:
"If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it certainly
exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who contend that the 
campaign didn�t have a working class base, that the campaign was not 
revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without detailed 
investigation."
This reminds me of the kindergarden addage "I'm rubber and your glue whaever 
you say bounces off me and sticks to you". To say something is opportunism 
is not to call it doo doo. It is a word with a meaning. If you are going to 
accuse someone of it you should at leats have an arguemnt. For arguemenst 
sake let's say that your chrage of opportunism stems from your charge that 
we haven't conducted an investigation. This is a stretch but its where we 
are I guess.

  But what does this mean "Without detailed investigation" The facts are 
that I worked on the campaign from January 22 until November 7. I don't 
think that I took 2 days off from the campaign. I worked on it every single 
day. I quit my job to work on the campaign full time.  I did not miss one 
steering committee meeting, I canvassed regularly, I met with business 
owners, church groups, student groups etc. I helped create most of the 
literature, I help to organize the first meeting and chaired many of the 
following meetings. I was one of the three candidates.  I am not patting my 
back, I want to know what you mean by "detailed investigation". What would 
you like me to do to conduct a "detailed investigation? Should I sit down 
and interview you about your canvassing experience?

Paul continues:
"I don�t think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened to to
pro-NBPC arguments. That�s not only unprinicipled, but opportunist because 
they use their unfounded arguments to discount the revolutionary practice of 
the campaign.  This dissing of revolutionary practice is predicated on the 
less-significant alliances
formed with Greens and Republicans."

If the "less-significant alliances with Republicnas and Greens" did not 
determine the fact that the Campign had no National Program, No National 
agenda, and was in fact an anti-democrat party united front which included 
republicans and at best very confused
greens, I would like to know what did. No discussion of the Presidential 
election which was what was on every one's minds was firstly opportunist 
(short term put ahead of long term) and secondly one of the main reasons we 
were defeated in November.

Again the charge of opportunism makes no sense. Paul claims U&S just wants 
to "dis the campaign" why? The majority of the U&S editors from put blood 
sweat and tears into the campaign, we all have a right to claim it as our 
own. I am associated with its activities whether I like it or not, my name 
appeared on all of its literature. It seems to me that you are just name 
calling. Their is no basis to your charge of opportunism.
Paul, you have never put forward an analysis of why we lost the
election. Listening to you one would think that we won. You just continually 
talk about how much people liked your rap when you canvased them. I do not 
doubt you are a fine canvaser but that is not the point.
Paul wrote:
"It�s precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current trends in
revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem credible in this 
ongoing debate."

What does this mean Paul.?  What are the  "current trends in
revolutionary practice" of which I am ignorant. Is there a new plan to raise 
a million dollars from a great man of wealth who likes your ideas? Or are we 
just well on our way to raising the 15 grand necessary for the "People's 
democratic community center office
space". Or is there just a "new" list serve without all those pesky msgs 
which interfere with "work".

As to the final point, Paul wrote:

"Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our practice?"

This statement actually sheds light on the problem you are having. You
have practice and theory seperated into two compartments. Practice and 
theory are not two different things. To talk about practice is theory, to 
think about practice is theory.  The only time theory is absent is when you 
get into what Zen Buddhist call samdhi, or sports enthusiats refer to as the 
"zone" . Theory is the crytalization of practical experience. To insist on 
prcatice without theory as many have or just do "work" is the essence of 
Social-Democracy. practice without theory has nothing to do with revolution. 
Nor does theory without prcatice.
So, how do we evaluate practice? with theory.
Social Democrats say "the movement is everything, the goal is nothing"
That is what Bernstien sd. And it is that same idea that is reflected when 
we hear the mantra "do work" repeated without discussion of what work for 
what purpose to what ends.

Perhaps we would get farther if Paul and others who don't believe any
mistakes weremade explain why we lost? (that would be a theoretical act)

I would propose the following questions to "evelauate our practice"
1. Why did we lose?
2. did we have a national program?
3. did we discuss the presidential election?
4. did we promote the slogan Beat Bush! Demand more from Gore, which all 
revolutionaries agreed was the correct slogan
5. Why were people funneled into a pipe dream "office space" project after 
the November elections instead of remaining involved in electoral politics?

I don't propose thes as rhetorical questions if we can't agree on answers to 
these questions we will never be able to achieve a unified analysis.

Keith
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1709
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-25 22:12:03
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Working class base
Message:

in general agreement, i also wd suggest to raise the formal question of the 
nbpc, "who are the peoples' allies, who are the peoples' enemies? locally & 
nationally (internationally)"

the "zone" is in no way the "absence of theory", rather the complete merger 
of theory & practice, mind & body, at splitsecond moment in time. 2on, 2out, 
2down, 2and2, windup&stretch...

cs


>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com, njfo@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Working class base
>Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:45:58 -0000
>
>I am glad that Paul took the time to respond to the U&S forum.
>Unfortunately, he stepped back from the points that we agreed upon at that
>meeting.
>   One of the problems that has become apparent is that we don't have
>agreement on some basic terminology. First is the term "working class 
>base".
>Paul writes:
>
>"Matthew and others have contended that we didn�t reach the working
>class with the NBPC.  I can�t think of many things farther from the truth.
>I�ve personally tried to convey this so many times..that we spoke with
>thousands of working class people  who were down with community control,
>down with the platform, down with democracy."
>
>Paul believes that a base of support is determined by who you canvas and if
>they like what you say.  This is not what Marxist-Leninists mean by base.
>We mean who is the leadership and who is the active body of the campaign. 
>To
>have a working class base you must have working class leadership and 
>working
>class membership. To be scientific, to base ourselves on the facts of this
>issue just count. Are there more students than workers in the campaign?
>Just review the videotapes of the NBPC meetings and you will see that it is
>made up of students and led by students or former students. This is a 
>simple
>fact.  You are confusing the idea of a base with sympathy.
>     That there was working class sympathy no one is denying, this sympathy
>is what Paul experienced when he canvased. Some people who are looking for
>excuses say that working people don't have time for meetings. This is not
>true, they don't have time for meetings that they see as pointless but many
>workers spend entire Sundays at church
>and weeknights studying the bible. Many working peiople are very active we
>just have not combined and networked with them because we want them to join
>us rather than joining them.
>Further along Paul wrote:
>"As a communist, I�ll say that our most important job is to represent
>working class interests whenever and wherever possible."
>We also disagree here. As Communists our main task is to organize the
>working class so that they can seize power. As Lejin explained in What is 
>to
>be done fuse socialist consiousness with the working class movemnt. The
>middle class claiming to represent working class interests is a long
>standing problem in the U.S. movement. See the movie Reds for instance or
>better yet check out the history. Look at the split between Malcom and the
>NOI. That is a class split. That is the working class struggling against 
>the
>petty-bourgeois for leadership of the movement.
>
>Paul continues:
>"...at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other night, the NBPC was
>roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which revolutionaries sold
>out their principles to form partnerships with pro-Bush forces."
>
>Paul, that is simply not true. The campaign was not dismissed and certainly
>not as adventurist (the mistakes were actually conservative not
>adventurist).
>What did happen is that we were able to come to an agreemnet as to some
>specific facts. First, we agreed it was a mistke that the campaign did not
>put forward any national agenda, program, or principles  in any consistent
>way. Second there was no discussion of the presidential race whatsoever, 
>and
>that such duiscussion was actively suppressed by the campaign itself. Paul
>is here back peddaling because these are facts and if they are agreed upon
>facts then they must be answered for. Why was there no discussion of
>national politics? Answer that question and we will be getting somewhere.
>
>Paul makes this point when he writes:
>"To dismiss the campaign on the grounds of two strategic alliances which
>barely affected tactics is to ignore the largest question of progressive 
>and
>revolutionary politics"
>
>Paul, the "two strategic alliances" you are referring to are with the
>Greens and Republicans.  I don't have any problem with those alliances so
>long as they do not result in compromises of principle and political line.
>you say the alliances "barely affected tactics" are you making a joke?  The
>campaign did not attack the serial
>killer from texas who has since stolen the presidency because we had
>republican allies. The campaign did not make it clear that Nader's 
>candidacy
>was aiding and abieting Bush 2 because we had allies in the Green party. 
>The
>working class knows that. The working class line in November was Beat Bush!
>Demand more from Gore!
>The definition of opportunism, Paul,  is to make long term sacrifices
>for short term gains. The thinking behind the compromises is textbook
>opportunism. I don't know how elese to understand your statment that we are
>ignoring the "largest question of revolutionary politics". Paul, what is 
>the
>largest question of revolutionary politics and how big is it. To dismiss 
>the
>national for the local and revolution for reform, and this is precesly what
>was done, is opportunism.
>We fight for democracy because we want socialsim, we fight for reforms
>because we want revolution and we fight locally because that is how we make
>change nationally and internationlly. But to dismiss the ends because it is
>easier to fight for democrcay without talking aout socialism and it is
>easier to fight for reforms without talking about revolution this is
>social-democracy not marxism-leninism. Check out Lenin on Bernstein if you
>are interested.
>Paul wrote:
>"If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it certainly
>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who contend that the
>campaign didn�t have a working class base, that the campaign was not
>revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without detailed
>investigation."
>This reminds me of the kindergarden addage "I'm rubber and your glue 
>whaever
>you say bounces off me and sticks to you". To say something is opportunism
>is not to call it doo doo. It is a word with a meaning. If you are going to
>accuse someone of it you should at leats have an arguemnt. For arguemenst
>sake let's say that your chrage of opportunism stems from your charge that
>we haven't conducted an investigation. This is a stretch but its where we
>are I guess.
>
>   But what does this mean "Without detailed investigation" The facts are
>that I worked on the campaign from January 22 until November 7. I don't
>think that I took 2 days off from the campaign. I worked on it every single
>day. I quit my job to work on the campaign full time.  I did not miss one
>steering committee meeting, I canvassed regularly, I met with business
>owners, church groups, student groups etc. I helped create most of the
>literature, I help to organize the first meeting and chaired many of the
>following meetings. I was one of the three candidates.  I am not patting my
>back, I want to know what you mean by "detailed investigation". What would
>you like me to do to conduct a "detailed investigation? Should I sit down
>and interview you about your canvassing experience?
>
>Paul continues:
>"I don�t think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened to to
>pro-NBPC arguments. That�s not only unprinicipled, but opportunist because
>they use their unfounded arguments to discount the revolutionary practice 
>of
>the campaign.  This dissing of revolutionary practice is predicated on the
>less-significant alliances
>formed with Greens and Republicans."
>
>If the "less-significant alliances with Republicnas and Greens" did not
>determine the fact that the Campign had no National Program, No National
>agenda, and was in fact an anti-democrat party united front which included
>republicans and at best very confused
>greens, I would like to know what did. No discussion of the Presidential
>election which was what was on every one's minds was firstly opportunist
>(short term put ahead of long term) and secondly one of the main reasons we
>were defeated in November.
>
>Again the charge of opportunism makes no sense. Paul claims U&S just wants
>to "dis the campaign" why? The majority of the U&S editors from put blood
>sweat and tears into the campaign, we all have a right to claim it as our
>own. I am associated with its activities whether I like it or not, my name
>appeared on all of its literature. It seems to me that you are just name
>calling. Their is no basis to your charge of opportunism.
>Paul, you have never put forward an analysis of why we lost the
>election. Listening to you one would think that we won. You just 
>continually
>talk about how much people liked your rap when you canvased them. I do not
>doubt you are a fine canvaser but that is not the point.
>Paul wrote:
>"It�s precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current trends in
>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem credible in this
>ongoing debate."
>
>What does this mean Paul.?  What are the  "current trends in
>revolutionary practice" of which I am ignorant. Is there a new plan to 
>raise
>a million dollars from a great man of wealth who likes your ideas? Or are 
>we
>just well on our way to raising the 15 grand necessary for the "People's
>democratic community center office
>space". Or is there just a "new" list serve without all those pesky msgs
>which interfere with "work".
>
>As to the final point, Paul wrote:
>
>"Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our practice?"
>
>This statement actually sheds light on the problem you are having. You
>have practice and theory seperated into two compartments. Practice and
>theory are not two different things. To talk about practice is theory, to
>think about practice is theory.  The only time theory is absent is when you
>get into what Zen Buddhist call samdhi, or sports enthusiats refer to as 
>the
>"zone" . Theory is the crytalization of practical experience. To insist on
>prcatice without theory as many have or just do "work" is the essence of
>Social-Democracy. practice without theory has nothing to do with 
>revolution.
>Nor does theory without prcatice.
>So, how do we evaluate practice? with theory.
>Social Democrats say "the movement is everything, the goal is nothing"
>That is what Bernstien sd. And it is that same idea that is reflected when
>we hear the mantra "do work" repeated without discussion of what work for
>what purpose to what ends.
>
>Perhaps we would get farther if Paul and others who don't believe any
>mistakes weremade explain why we lost? (that would be a theoretical act)
>
>I would propose the following questions to "evelauate our practice"
>1. Why did we lose?
>2. did we have a national program?
>3. did we discuss the presidential election?
>4. did we promote the slogan Beat Bush! Demand more from Gore, which all
>revolutionaries agreed was the correct slogan
>5. Why were people funneled into a pipe dream "office space" project after
>the November elections instead of remaining involved in electoral politics?
>
>I don't propose thes as rhetorical questions if we can't agree on answers 
>to
>these questions we will never be able to achieve a unified analysis.
>
>Keith
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
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>
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>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1710
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-25 23:14:30
Subject:Re: [nbpc] (unknown)
Message:

you drunk, can't remember your slurs after the convention?

i can. joe

this message is written to declare and point out an ongoing effort of 
PEOPLES' WAR ON THE RIGHT!
to help join these forces let us work to organize circles of 
revolutionaries. our efforts must be united - no republicans/no splits.


>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] (unknown)
>Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 17:59:20 EDT
>
>
>
><< In the '00 formation of the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign, this same
>  "Boycott!"/"Expel!" element encouraged all Campaign members to register
>  Republican (as against the "local" Democratic machine), orchestrated the
>  local Republican Party chairmanship of anti-Communist Frank Bright, put
>  Bright on the Campaign steering committee (over our local activist Black
>  youth, Jason Hankins), enabled Bright's anti-Communist slander of Joe 
>Smith,
>  defended long-time Republican Curtis Warren's pro-imperialist violations 
>of
>  the Campaign program, and finally, again, expelled myself, Joe Smith, 
>Nicole
>  Engel, Tamara Dahan, Jason Hankins, and Nestor Valdez from the Campaign
>  after we attacked this "Revolutionary"/Republican Alliance.  The Campaign
>  lost.  As did the Elected School Board Campaign.  We are currently 
>persona
>  non grata in the Peoples' Campaign, and have been expelled from its 
>internet
>  site. >>
>
>
>Concerning this section, Cliff, your reminisces are inaccurate, to say the
>least. My "slander" was to ask Joe "Are you going to use the Elected School
>Board Question to further a Marxist party?" He said "Yeah." And another
>candidate was nominated, by myself, that I felt would promote the question
>for what it is: a move to democracy that would greatly benefit the 
>education
>of our youth. Instead of reacting in a personally harsh attitude to people
>because they engage in fair, direct democracy, perhaps it would be better 
>to
>engage people where they are at. In the time before you were expelled, you
>personally and unfairly attacked at least a half dozen people in the most
>nasty and unpedagogical ways. Therefore, to call me an anti-Communist is
>wrong. If anything I was and still am "anti-nasty."
>
>My chairmanship was supported by many different groups and has given the
>people a voice in redistricting, polling sites, fairer general elections 
>and
>a Housing Authority board that is more resident oriented. It has also
>illustrated by working together in fairness and respect to the principles 
>of
>direct democracy, we can vote the current regime out.
>
>I am writing this in peace.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1711
Sender:"Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-26 00:26:43
Subject:Saturday Meeting
Message:

I made this proposal at the Febuary meeting. Instead  it was voted on to 
work on a "community center office space or something".  Since it is 
becoming apparent that project has failed in parctice, I am re-submitting 
this proposal.  There is more to be said about it since this was four months 
ago and things have become clearer, but IU think that it would be a good 
start.

    I would like to comment on the proposed agenda for Saturday's meeting. 
In particular the point about building a "Community Center".  Though I am a 
member of the steering committee I have not been able to attend many 
meetings since the November elections. Nonetheless, I have spent a lot of 
time thinking about studying our campaign.  I would propose the following 
instead of the community center project.

1. Summation of Campaign- we need a scientific summation of our experience. 
It should include our successes and shortcomings. We should study who voted 
for us and why and who didn't and why. This will allow us to build on our 
strengths and work on our weakness.

2. Issue a local literature- We must continue to expose what the city 
machine J&J/DevCo etc are up to, but we should put this in a national and 
international context of the struggle for democracy.

3. Get on local cable TV- New Brunswick  has an unused public access station 
that could serve as a forum for all the various groups involved in the 
campaign as well as the campaign itself to put forward its ideas.

4. Hold a series of forum's and discussions- Many different groups 
participated in the past elections we need forums and public discussions so 
that all of the different ideas that went into the campaign can be sorted 
out discussed, debated etc. This would also assist our efforts to organize 
the community if the discussions were interesting.

5. Struggle for public space- While a community center is a nice idea, the 
real issue must be, as the campaign stated, seizing power. This means going 
into public spaces and institutions and working with the people and the 
programs that already exist and revolutionizing them. For instance the youth 
program could be run successfully from a public school and could be 
furthered developed as an alternative to the type of teaching and curriculum 
that currently exists

6. Participate in some way in the upcoming elections- Since a serial killing 
thief now hold the office of presidency and New Jersey is one of two states 
with upcoming gubenitorial races it provides us with the perfect opportunity 
to on the one hand organize through the govenor election for the 2002 city 
council elections (e.g. voter registration, networking, organizing the 
community, and on the other to frame the election as a protest against the 
Bush robbery. National Republicans have already stated that the upcoming 
election in New Jersey is their chance to legitimize Bush as President, we 
must prevent this. Undermining Bush's legitimacy exposes the most 
un-democratic features of the current US government.

7. Build network/coalitions around these effort in preparation for Fall 
Convention and 2002 elections- These projects are the best way I can think 
of to broaden expand and deepen our coalition and its roots among the 
community in New Brunswick.

  The People's Camapign came together around the issue of the election and 
so that must remain in focus. The proposal for a community center not only 
loses sight of that goal but it relies on fundraising outside of the people 
we want to organize which means that even if it works (which I highly doubt) 
it will not mobilize and organize the community..

-Keith Joseph


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1712
Sender:"Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-26 01:28:59
Subject:Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Meeting this Saturday at 2pm
Message:



>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpcmembers] Meeting this Saturday at 2pm
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 04:53:55 -0000
>
>This is a response to a msg that was sent to the group by Frank Bright. 
>From
>what he says it appears that it was written by some other party but that 
>the
>ideas are his.
>My response is followed by the original msg.
>
>This proposal is certainly a step forward from the "community center office
>space" pipe dream, but it is still a long way from what we need. (By the
>way, what is the status of office space fund raising are we on the way to
>the 15 large promised by Sepetmber and an opening gala, or are we just
>hoping that everyone just forgot about it?)
>
>It is not suprising that the Chair of the Republican Party is the 
>originator
>of this proposal.
>The local republicans would like nothing better than to have an 
>organization
>which would sever as the loyal opposition to the local democrats while
>leaving the Reopublicans unscathed. This proposal makes it imnpossible for
>the People's Campaign to provide any leadership to the working people,
>students and small business of New Brusnwick. It will relegate the campaign
>to a small sect of people who compalin at city council meetings.
>
>The campaign must cease trying to be all things to all people. We should
>unite around clear principles of unity and a common platform that should
>include local, statewide, and national issues. For instance the 
>orgainzation
>and its principles of unity should be based upon the simple premisis that
>New Brunswick is not democratic and this is just a local reflection of the
>fact that the United States is not democractic. I am interested in uniting
>with people who realize that the United States is not a democracy.  From
>that basis we can work out the details and hold discussions, without that
>level agreemnet we will get no where.
>
>If we can do a serious analysis of what happened in November and what we 
>did
>right and what we did wrong that would be a huge step forward. We lost the
>election. This is a fact. The last meeting had two people at it. This is a
>fact. The meetings have been getting smaller and smaller, alsio a fact. If
>we face reality we have a chance if we insist on deluding ourselves we will
>get nowhere.
>The result of November and leading up to it and to some extent since then
>have proven that we have a base of support among the students at Rutgers 
>and
>that we have some sympathizers in New Brunswicks working class and small
>business communities. We can certainly build on this but the direction that
>the current proposal points to is not the way.
>
>First, we must call for unity around principle of democracy and the strugle
>for democarcy. We must find a way to overcome differnces between those of 
>us
>with common goals. The expedient method of expelling dissenters is not the
>way to victory. We must unite those who want to fight for democarcy at the
>local and national level. Those who don't care about democracy only their
>personal advancement we can do without.
>
>
>
> >After careful reflection, it is my view that we should, at the 6/30/01
> >meeting, adopt the following two points as the purposes and goals of the
> >campaign.  It is my view that these points express clear and obtainable
> >goals
> >which are free of vague ideological content.  Thus, all work of the
> >Campaign
> >- be it helping the Court Tavern, opposing the tenancy inspection
> >ordinance,
> >surveying, press, afterschool programs, FCA case against the housing
> >authority, etc. - will be measured by asking the question: does it 
>support
> >these purposes, or not, and if so, to what degree (so we can determine 
>the
> >amount of resources to commit).
> >
> >I humbly submit this for your thoughts and discussion.
> >
> >     1.  To secure the passage the New Brunswick Democracy and
> >Accountability
> >Ordinance of 2001 by a popular referendum to be held at the 2001 general
> >election.
> >
> >     EXPLANATORY NOTE.
> >
> >     The objects of this ordinance will be (a) to regulate the meeting
> >times
> >of the council and other public entities in New Brunswick and to suppress
> >any
> >efforts to hold meetings at times when it would be a burden for working
> >families to attend such meetings; (b) to require one week advance notice 
>of
> >all agenda items absent exigent circumstances; (c) to require the online
> >publication of agendas, proposed, and passed measures and, for those
> >without
> >the internet, to require availability of copies of same at minimal or no
> >cost; (d) to improve the public's access to municipal records under the
> >open
> >records laws by way of speedier response times and reduced copying costs;
> >and
> >(e) to mandate substantial periods of open public debate at all municipal
> >entity meetings.
> >
> >     2.  To win the mayor's seat and the two city council seats which 
>will
> >be
> >open in the 2002 general election, and pass a referendum providing for an
> >elected board of education.
> >
> >     EXPLANATORY NOTE.
> >
> >     The People's Campaign will devote all its efforts to winning all the
> >municipal seats open in the 2002 general election and passing the board 
>of
> >education question at that time.  The candidates chosen must make a
> >demonstrable commitment to substantially improving the quality of life 
>for
> >all persons residing in New Brunswick.  The candidates will run on a
> >platform
> >demonstrably supported by substantial numbers of residents from all 
>races,
> >ethnicities, and socioeconomic status.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1713
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-26 07:44:51
Subject:Re: [nbpc] (unknown)
Message:


Back up your statements with facts, Joe






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1714
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-26 22:39:32
Subject:Shank Schundler!
Message:

$ight $oaries - da third eye

(bright?moron!)
fact - you attribute communism to be divisive
why don't you now explain why you nominated jim to lead a campaign he has no 
relationship to? also in this explanation must be your analysis of why you 
do not agree with karl marx. also in this explanation must be your analysis 
of why you do not support the struggle for democracy. also in this 
explanation must be your analysis of community control and what you have 
done to achieve the nbpc platform demand for community control.

if you claim to be for the people, you must relinquish your republican 
affiliation and join them.

Main Target - $chundler $ympathizers/$upporters
Main Actions - Propoganda & Agitation/Voter Registration
Main Demand - Peoples' Democracy

Revolutionaries Unite!!!!!!




>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] (unknown)
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 07:44:51 EDT
>
>
>
>Back up your statements with facts, Joe

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1715
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-26 23:11:25
Subject:?
Message:

	donde es flavier?
no se.
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1716
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-26 23:13:54
Subject:Shank Schundler! working class base?
Message:

(re: paul)

through seeing who is being organized to your positions and why.

not so insignificant as you might think, uniting with republicans.
why don't you explain to jayson hankins and myself why you would
rather have fucbright on the steering committee than himself?

i am not and never have been anti-nbpc, nor am i ultra-left.

to claim that the nbpc represented the working class with a revolutionary 
democratic program is a lie, lier. xavier and njfo members led the expulsion 
of any open revolutionary democratic programs being organized in the 
peoples' campaign. let alone the bankrupt attack and guttering of the 
national election. since BOL and others from nb were/ARE expelled, there has 
yet to be any open revolutionary programs put forward by the nbpc.

yes the nbpc talked to thousands of nb working class residents through the 
canvass which was organized by the outreach committee which was led by BOL. 
the motorcade, the surveys, the picnic were all organized through the 
outreach committee which was dominated by BOL. where is the outreach 
committee now?, where is any public display of the nbpc?

you never explained to the people that you were/ARE all registered
REPUBLICANS!

as far as what % of the working class vote nbpc received, the losing %.

Beat Bush!! Nix Nader!! sound familiar Flavier?

if there is a working class base organized promoting revolutionary
democratic programs in nb, where is it? and how can SWORD get involved?

why do we as revolutionaries build allainces? not to drop our OPEN
AND ABOVE BOARD revolutionary positions, but to further them. currently
there are more nb people agreeing with republican positions on public
housing than are agreeing with revolutionary democratic positions on public 
housing. or is there not a difference??????????????????????

nbpc recieved 1900+ votes for republican candidates for city council. how 
many votes did nbpc receive for revolutionary democracy?

                    000000
                   0      0
                  0        0
                 0          0
                 0          0
                 0          0
                  0        0
                   0      0
                    000000

you can't play me
>
>
>
> >From: shorepaulie@...
> >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >>Subject: [nbpc] working class base?
> >>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:58:06 -0000
> >>
> >>Matt wrote:  But the point is that we need
> >> > to sort out ... why the campaign lacked a working class base.
> >>
> >>Paul writes:  Yea, I think that's the bottom line issue here.  Matthew
> >>and others have contended that we didn't reach the working class with
> >>the NBPC.  I can't think of many things farther from the truth.  I've
> >>personally tried to convey this so many times....that we spoke with
> >>thousands of working class people  who were down with community
> >>control, down with the platform, down with democracy.
> >>
> >>As some may guess, many of these working class people whom I
> >>personally met can talk the issues much better than some local
> >>'organizers' and many of the 'advanced' who need to learn to listen.
> >>
> >>You say we didn't have a working class base, but the platform was
> >>derived from conversation with mainly working class people.  The
> >>tactics on canvass were derived mainly from conversations, that is,
> >>informal agitation and propaganda among the broad mass of working
> >>class people in NB.  We reinforced our emphases based on continued
> >>interaction.  We had working class people out in the field, in our
> >>meetings, working on election day, spreading the buzz of the NBPC, etc.
> >>
> >>But you may still say we lacked working class base.
> >>
> >>As a communist, I'll say that our most important job is to represent
> >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible.  I think my
> >>arguments, which are well-honed now that I've repeated them so many
> >>times, stand for themselves.  You can say my premises are wrong and my
> >>experience non-scientific, but that's how I and others stand on the
> >>campaign experience.
> >>
> >>As far as getting out the working class vote goes,  we don't yet know
> >>what percentage of our vote was working class.  I think that deserves
> >>much attention:  at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other night,
> >>the NBPC was roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which
> >>revolutionaries sold out their principles to form partnerships with
> >>pro-Bush forces.
> >>
> >>That conclusion, embraced mainly by the far Left among us, ignores the
> >>political experience of the campaign as it relates to the political
> >>experience of the working class voters of NB.  To dismiss the campaign
> >>on the grounds of two strategic alliances which barely affected
> >>tactics is to ignore the largest question of progressive and
> >>revolutionary politics....that is:   how do we mobilize the working
> >>class and in doing that, what tasks are principal for pro-democratic
> >>forces who would mobilize the political disfranchised classes. Any
> >>analysis of these questions has to take practice into account. But
> >>this type of practice was not on the agenda on Wednesday in Newark.
> >>
> >>If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it certainly
> >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who contend that
> >>the campaign didn't have a working class base, that the campaign was
> >>not revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without detailed
> >>investigation.
> >>
> >>I don't think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened to to
> >>pro-NBPC arguments. That's not only unprinicipled, but opportunist
> >>because they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
> >>revolutionary practice of the campaign.  This dissing of revolutionary
> >>practice is predicated on the less-significant alliances formed with
> >>Greens and Republicans.
> >>
> >>It's precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current trends in
> >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem credible in
> >>this ongoing debate.
> >>
> >>
> >>I'm going to end with a question, because now I'm listening---
> >>Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our practice?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Totally agreed that the movement needs "technicians and progressive
> >> > professionsals...(look, i'm a college student studying to be an
> >>architect
> >> > which is about as technical  as you can get)  But the point is that
> >>we need
> >> > to sort out the question of what the United Front is, and why the
> >>campaign
> >> > lacked a working class base.
> >> >
> >> > Here's an anecdote: I was just working with this third-wrold 
>grassroots
> >> > coalition on building a full scale model house in the United Nations
> >>for a
> >> > convention on low-income housing.  After a week of working together,
> >>I asked
> >> > their leader, Jokin, an old Indian man, how I could join the
> >>organization.
> >> > He looked at me puzzled, and asked me, WHy do you ask how you can
> >>join what
> >> > you've already joined?!  That's the difference in the mode of
> >>organizing,
> >> > and it's a consciousness that comes *from* the grassroots, *not* the
> >> > technical progressives.  & When I say that there is a dominant
> >>tendancy, or
> >> > ideology, that represents the "progressive professional" it doesn't
> >>mean
> >> > that you, Flavio, not needed (BTW I haven't had my court date
> >>rescheduled
> >> > yet ;)  ...it means that something else is lacking, and has
> >>historically
> >> > been so. And that is the working class.  & It is only with working
> >>class
> >> > consciousness that **revolutionary democracy** will not be 
>compromised,
> >> > because the W.C. doesn't have the option of "getting jobs" like so
> >>many of
> >> > our parents generation did......So it is *of necessity* that the
> >>W.C. will
> >> > ultimately inspire all of us progressive and revolutionary
> >>technicians to
> >> > get it together and participate in the construction of an actual 
>United
> >> > Front against this mess. and for democracy, by any means necessary.
> >> >
> >> > -Matt
> >> >
> >> > ----Original Message Follows----
> >> > From: Groovemeister007@y...
> >> > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >> > To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >> > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the Essence
> >> > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:56:10 -0000
> >> >
> >> > It is my understanding that even Mao advocated that political leaders
> >> > had to be both "red and expert," i.e. to understand both politics as
> >> > well as more technical matters such as industry (or even law).
> >> > Not "red and ignorant" or "red and alienating."  As he explained, a
> >> > person with only a political line is "pseudo-red, empty-headedly
> >> > political."
> >> >
> >> > The campaign needs technicians in its ranks.  I also believe that to
> >> > be "advanced" one must have more than a class consciousness.  While
> >> > petition signatures were being collected for the 2000 board of ed and
> >> > municipal elections, some turkeys decided it would be permissible to
> >> > get signatures from people living in _North_ Brunswick (which are
> >> > invalid in a _New_ Brunswick election).  Just recently, some other
> >> > turkeys on the other egroup advocated letters to USA Cleary asking
> >> > him to "overturn" a judge's ruling nullifying a jury verdict (Can't
> >> > happen because of separation of powers).  One point of the NBPC
> >> > platform demands: "Pass rent control legislation to stop all rent
> >> > increases except those necessary to preserve a fair rate of return
> >> > for landlords' investments, such as to cover repairs and improvements
> >> > to building by the owner, requiring the approval of a democratically-
> >> > elected Rent Control Board and never to exceed cost of living
> >> > increase for that year."  This is despite the fact that NB has just
> >> > such a rent control ordinance, albeit one that is
> >> > underenforced/unenforced and without vacancy control.  Shouldn't the
> >> > nonenforcement/vacancy control have been the emphasis of the rent
> >> > point, rather than demanding something already on the books?
> >> >
> >> > I could go on but in sum, my question is: who is doing the technical
> >> > homework on our political work and outreach?
> >> >
> >> > Credibility matters, whether we like it or not.  Part of credibility
> >> > is technical accuracy.  (Proper grammar, spelling, and use of English
> >> > capitalization rules also help, a point sorely lost on many of the
> >> > purportedly "advanced" people who are using the other egroup).
> >> > Technical accuracy and the precision of a message can be enhanced by
> >> > welcoming progressives into the campaign who share the campaign's
> >> > goals and who have the relevant technical and professional
> >> > knowledge.  Indeed, if we are going to participate in electoral
> >> > politics, I'd rather have the progressive technician who understands
> >> > how to get our candidates' names on the ballot participating in,
> >> > even "dominating" things, rather than the sloganeer whose can mouth
> >> > a "purer" political consciousness than that of the progressive
> >> > technician/professional.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> >> >  > Kris-
> >> >  >
> >> >  > *My choice of phrasing "landlords & lawyer types", though not
> >> > intended to be
> >> >  > a put down, could be read as such.  I'll rephrase it more
> >> > accurately & point
> >> >  > out that the 'political line' of nbpcmembers is/has been dominated
> >> > by the
> >> >  > class consciousness of the 'progressive professional'.
> >> >  >
> >> >  > *From my observations, SWORD has been closer to the working class
> >> > community
> >> >  > on the street, irregardless of the criticisms that have been made
> >> > against
> >> >  > them.  At one time, the NBPB Coalition held that honor.  but NJFO
> >> > has been
> >> >  > historically campus/student oriented and while the NBPC had made
> >> > inroads
> >> >  > into the community, it's base is still vastly made up of students 
>&
> >> >  > graduates.
> >> >  >
> >> >  > *I'm unclear as to why you immmediately conclude that advocating
> >> >  > 'revolutionary democracy' equates to "vicious, slanderous,
> >> >  > negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering?"  I've consistantly
> >> > criticized
> >> >  > what I view to be 'ultra-leftist' tendencies and 'murder-mouth'
> >> >  > sloganeering, but I refuse to give up my ideas and my experiences
> >> > because
> >> >  > I'm afraid I might be confused with someone else...I agree that it
> >> > is time
> >> >  > to move on and find a new basis for unity and not to keep beating
> >> > the same
> >> >  > old horse, but let the records note that I strongly feel that
> >> > NJFO 'gave up'
> >> >  > it's 'revolutionary democratic' *ideological conclusion* based on
> >> > the hard
> >> >  > fought and won experience of breaking out of the CU shell...in
> >> > other words,
> >> >  > the butterfly never left the branch.
> >> >  >
> >> >  > This is why I now feel that the most pressing issue *still* is the
> >> > nature of
> >> >  > revolutionary democracy* and how that is represented in a United
> >> > Front. (I
> >> >  > think we agree that we disagree on this, but precisely what are 
>the
> >> > points
> >> >  > of contention. What do we agree on, and what do we disagree on in
> >> > substance
> >> >  > not form.  If I curse and you don't like that, it doesn't get any
> >> > closer to
> >> >  > the heart of the matter.  But if I scream at you or slander you
> >> > because
> >> >  > you're not revolutionary enough, then it does get to the heart
> >> > because it
> >> >  > shows that I'm not that interested in building unity with you. I
> >> > think we
> >> >  > can agree on this much. Now how does this play out...)
> >> >  >
> >> >  > * Two more things, and then I'll hang up and listen:
> >> >  > 1. Please don't put words in my mouth and then compare them to
> >> > those of
> >> >  > "right-wing turds".
> >> >  > 2. I also wish that I had thought of the idea to limit the # of
> >> > postings to
> >> >  > one-a-day 'back then'...for one thing, I was too preoccupied with
> >> > my
> >> >  > revelation that the peoples campaign was not acting as a United
> >> > Front; that
> >> >  > NJFO's president had a split with AB and was putting out a 
>position
> >> > against
> >> >  > publishing U&S (no longer "March Seperately, Strike Together") to
> >> > appease
> >> >  > the Naderites, Republicans & Landlords; that folks were generally
> >> > abandoning
> >> >  > U&S as a collective organizer; and the big revalation that this
> >> > tendency of
> >> >  > bannings is just that: a tendency with a long history of trial and
> >> > error
> >> >  > with little to show for itself in terms of creating a 'pure' space
> >> > for some
> >> >  > kind of 'real' unity.
> >> >  >
> >> >  > Look , Kris, we all have a relatively long history together.  It's
> >> > hard to
> >> >  > have things shaken up as much as they have been.  But alot will be
> >> >  > determined by how we approach our potential for the future,
> >> > beginning on
> >> >  > Wed. I'm glad to be a part of the bridge building.  See you then.
> >> > Matt
> >> >  >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
> >> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >>
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1717
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-27 20:42:53
Subject:Fwd: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
Message:

if there is a working class base organized promoting revolutionary
democratic programs in nb, where is it? and how can SWORD get involved?

joe

From: "Thomas DeGloma" <tdegloma@...>
Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, nbpc@egroups.com, njfo@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Shank Schundler! working class base?
> >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:42:04 -0000
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1718
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-27 22:33:12
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:

Joe,

Please note I never said Marxism is divisive. I said your predominant view of 
the Elected BOE question was to further, primarily, a Marxist Party. I find 
that putting ideology before people is irrational. 'Ideology was made by man 
for man, not vice verse.' 

Not for nothing, Luceno ain't a bad guy. When he and Nikki led the media 
committee they had a lot of perspective. Unfortunately, the leadership at the 
time was, even then, not giving the current members a voice. Most media 
committee members are gone now ... the Feb 10th vote was a last chance for 
most.

I am braced for your response and name calling. 

"You may fire when ready, Gridley."






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1719
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-28 18:08:14
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:

marxism is divisive, liar.  it divides the people from their republican 
imperialist enemies.

the evening after the convention, after the new brunswick community 
overwhelmingly voted for joe & his marxist, peoples' ideology, against yr 
candidate, to head the elected board of education campaign, you in yr 
inebriation, spun through the post-convention party calling joe "divisive".

it is you who is irrational & places personal "ideology" before the peoples' 
interests.

or how many signatures did you or yr associates gather to place the board of 
ed question on the ballot last yr?  or any of the times it was up for 
election?

talk is cheap, hater.

cliff



>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:33:12 EDT
>
>
>Joe,
>
>Please note I never said Marxism is divisive. I said your predominant view 
>of
>the Elected BOE question was to further, primarily, a Marxist Party. I find
>that putting ideology before people is irrational. 'Ideology was made by 
>man
>for man, not vice verse.'
>
>Not for nothing, Luceno ain't a bad guy. When he and Nikki led the media
>committee they had a lot of perspective. Unfortunately, the leadership at 
>the
>time was, even then, not giving the current members a voice. Most media
>committee members are gone now ... the Feb 10th vote was a last chance for
>most.
>
>I am braced for your response and name calling.
>
>"You may fire when ready, Gridley."

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1720
Sender:"Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-28 19:24:22
Subject:Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
Message:



>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
>Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:11:47 -0000
>
>I personally am not so excited by this discussion.  I'm beginning to think
>it's rooted in some old and destructive traditions that relate to the Fight
>Club in all of us.
>
>As far as the obstruction goes, I think anyone who was at the NJFO and NBPC
>meetings following the election will agree that you not only made your 
>point
>explicitly, Keith, but you persistedly repeated yourself without 
>encouraging
>productive discussion that would have lead towards some practical action.
>
>With or without a majority standing, vocal advocates should always make
>themselves clear, but you would have been a lot more effective if you had
>focused your energy on organizing people (outside the meetings) into the
>tasks you were suggesting, rather than speaking an inordinate amount at the
>meetings.  When that happens we all lose precious time that could be spent
>putting people into action or developing new ideas as a group in meetings.
>That's why I call it 'obstruction'.
>
> >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 00:49:14 -0000
> >
> >I am glad that this discussion is taking place, I think that it is much
> >needed and will help us advance. It seems to me that we are finding some
> >points of agreement.
> >There are also some points of continued disagreement that I hope we can
> >work
> >on.
> >
> >Paul wrote:
> >"I never denied that the NPBC made mistakes, my main complaint is that 
>the
> >most acute criticism has never made an attempt to assess our relationship
> >with the working class in NB. It's been "they made alliances with greens
> >and
> >repubs and where is the quantified and qualitative analysis?" That's been
> >followed by calls for quantitative and qualitative formal analysis.
> > > >Yes, we need that."
> >
> >It is my opinion that camapign was led by students and former students 
>and
> >had a primarily student base. At the same time it had significant support
> >and sympathy among working people and elements of democratic middle
> >classes.
> >This is my one line assessment. But I also feel that working class slogan
> >in
> >November 2000 was beat bush demand, more from Gore. By not forwarding the
> >slogan (because of the mentioned alliances) we alienated ourselves from
> >working class people, during the course of the campaign and on election
> >day.
> >At the same time not advancing the slogan (beat bush...) we did not
> >alienate
> >ourselves from students who supported Nader but they became our strongest
> >supporters outside of the activist core and many joined the activist 
>core.
> >     So what I am saying is that we (the People's Campaign) made a choice
> >(some more conscious of this than others) to accomadate and seek student
> >support when it led to an alienated relationship with the working class.
> >The
> >opportunist aspect is that at least some of us believe (including Paul,
> >judgeing from what he has written eldewhere) believe that the working 
>class
> >is the only class that will fight relentlessly and thoughly for democracy
> >and revolution. Also when you disconnect local activity from a more long
> >term national vision/program you implicitly saying that "the movemnt is
> >everything the goal is nothing".
> >
> >Paul continues:
> >"It was definitely a mistake to ignore national issues.  Every party in 
>the
> >united front is entitled to produce their own literature, no matter how
> >ineffective or corny it may be. And revolutionaries and others with
> >national
> >stands should have taken advantage of that. Forces who sought to suppress
> >such agitprop should be called out in violation of the rules."
> >
> >I agree with you, but I would go farther and say that we must have a 
>united
> >front that has a level of unity that is beyond "defeat the machine" we
> >don't
> >all have to be revolutionaries, or want socialism, but we all have to 
>want
> >democracy. For instance, I am not interested in organizational unity with
> >people who do not want to stop Bret Shundler, simply because we don't 
>have
> >time.
> >
> >Paul wrote:
> >"But to assert that all we had to do was put out the correct line on
> >national issues and we would have won, is certainly fallacious thinking."
> >
> >I think that all we need is ea correct political line in general. Lokk at
> >this way, what else could we have done. Could we have worked harder spent
> >more hours etc. I don't think that is possible. I don't think anyone 
>saved
> >anything for November 8.
> >At work they say don't to work fast you have to work smart. We worked as
> >fast as we could but we didn't work smart, that is we didn't have a good
> >political line.
> > >
> >I agree in general with the points you made using Betleheim, I think that
> >is
> >exactly the point.
> >
> >Paul ends with these questions.
> >"This brings up the most vital question---what course do we take to
> >organize
> >working class people to lead the movement?  What are the implications for
> >the United Front?  Can agitation and propaganda alone be the secret
> >weapons?
> >This questions are think are good ones., to organize the working class to
> >lead we must fuse socialist consciousness or revolutionary ideology with
> >the
> >working calss movemnt. I think that Lenin's What is to be done adresses 
>the
> >above questions. If you remember that Lenin was a meber of teh Russian
> >Social-Democratic Labor Party which was in fact a united front of various
> >revolutionary groupings and trends, both mensheviks and Bolsheviks. It
> >didn't become the CPSUB until after October 1917.
> >
> >Paul you conclude with questions/accusations which I am sure have been 
>made
> >before but you are the firts to put these things to me directly. Hurray 
>for
> >a move against liberalism. Paul Wrote:
> >"What is the value of six months of criticisms that neglect to suggest
> >better methods for accomplishing these tasks?"
> >Actually Paul I have made alternative proposals from the beginning. I 
>just
> >re-sent the proposal that I made at the Feb. 10th meeting where it was
> >decided to work for the "community center democratic office space". I sd
> >that we should remain involvde in elecrial politics at the local and
> >statewide level, that we should put forward a national program or at 
>leats
> >begin too.
> >The accusation you make is one taht has been made often in the past six
> >months I don't think taht it is based in reality. If you think that it is
> >accurate I would appreciate it if you would elaborate so that I can 
>correct
> >myself.
> >
> >Paul asked:
> >"What role has obstruction of meetings by forces on the Right and the 
>Left
> >(Frank and Keith) played in our dormancy?"
> >
> >This is another one of those accustaions. If you mean by "obstruction" 
>that
> >I refused to succomb to what I beleived (fund raising for the office
> >community center democratic culture space) was a bad political line and
> >that
> >I continually raised my objections and criticism then by all means I am
> >guilty. But practice has proven that it is not so easy to raise 15 large 
>by
> >telling rich folks that you have a good idea to get rid of them and you
> >would like them to finance it. As far as I am concerned prcatice has
> >vindicated my criticism of this line. We can't even pay a two hundred
> >dollar
> >phone bill.
> >    A brief story might make the absurdity of the obstruction charge 
>clear.
> >If we all decided to take a trip to Florida and the driver got on route 
>80
> >west and everyone but myself agreed that it was a good idea and i kept
> >trying to get the car onto route 95 south... am I an obstructionist.
> >Actually the obstructionsit charge is just a revulsion against democracy.
> >      Might I not just as easily say that the obstructionists are the
> >supporters of the office/community center line who have obstructed our
> >participation in electoral politics. Could it not be said that the
> >obstructionists are those who refuse to look at our efforts criticially 
>and
> >have sought to block all attempts to bring critical reflection upon the
> >camapign.  The whole time the most reactionary section of the republican
> >party has been preparing a coup and now we have to deal with this smiling
> >neo-fascist buffoon Bret Shundler and our champion is this Geek mayor 
>from
> >Wood bridge and we have done nothing but dream of raising money and avoid
> >criticsm.
> >    I think that the obstructionist charge is a crock...
> >Could we all have jsut rallied around the office community cnetr fund
> >raising line. sure, but we would not be any farther along on it than we 
>are
> >now and we would have the added benifit of being clueless.
> >I am glad that we are having this discussion.
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
> > > >>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > >>CC: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com, njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > > >>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > >>Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:45:58 -0000
> > > >>
> > > >>I am glad that Paul took the time to respond to the U&S forum.
> > > >>Unfortunately, he stepped back from the points that we agreed upon 
>at
> > >that
> > > >>meeting.
> > > >>   One of the problems that has become apparent is that we don't 
>have
> > > >>agreement on some basic terminology. First is the term "working 
>class
> > > >>base".
> > > >>Paul writes:
> > > >>
> > > >>"Matthew and others have contended that we didn?t reach the working
> > > >>class with the NBPC.  I can?t think of many things farther from the
> > >truth.
> > > >>I?ve personally tried to convey this so many times..that we spoke 
>with
> > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with community
> >control,
> > > >>down with the platform, down with democracy."
> > > >>
> > > >>Paul believes that a base of support is determined by who you canvas
> >and
> > > >>if
> > > >>they like what you say.  This is not what Marxist-Leninists mean by
> > >base.
> > > >>We mean who is the leadership and who is the active body of the
> > >campaign.
> > > >>To
> > > >>have a working class base you must have working class leadership and
> > > >>working
> > > >>class membership. To be scientific, to base ourselves on the facts 
>of
> > >this
> > > >>issue just count. Are there more students than workers in the
> >campaign?
> > > >>Just review the videotapes of the NBPC meetings and you will see 
>that
> >it
> > > >>is
> > > >>made up of students and led by students or former students. This is 
>a
> > > >>simple
> > > >>fact.  You are confusing the idea of a base with sympathy.
> > > >>     That there was working class sympathy no one is denying, this
> > > >>sympathy
> > > >>is what Paul experienced when he canvased. Some people who are 
>looking
> > >for
> > > >>excuses say that working people don't have time for meetings. This 
>is
> > >not
> > > >>true, they don't have time for meetings that they see as pointless 
>but
> > > >>many
> > > >>workers spend entire Sundays at church
> > > >>and weeknights studying the bible. Many working peiople are very
> >active
> > >we
> > > >>just have not combined and networked with them because we want them 
>to
> > > >>join
> > > >>us rather than joining them.
> > > >>Further along Paul wrote:
> > > >>"As a communist, I?ll say that our most important job is to 
>represent
> > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible."
> > > >>We also disagree here. As Communists our main task is to organize 
>the
> > > >>working class so that they can seize power. As Lejin explained in 
>What
> > >is
> > > >>to
> > > >>be done fuse socialist consiousness with the working class movemnt.
> >The
> > > >>middle class claiming to represent working class interests is a long
> > > >>standing problem in the U.S. movement. See the movie Reds for 
>instance
> > >or
> > > >>better yet check out the history. Look at the split between Malcom 
>and
> > >the
> > > >>NOI. That is a class split. That is the working class struggling
> >against
> > > >>the
> > > >>petty-bourgeois for leadership of the movement.
> > > >>
> > > >>Paul continues:
> > > >>"...at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other night, the NBPC 
>was
> > > >>roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which 
>revolutionaries
> > > >>sold
> > > >>out their principles to form partnerships with pro-Bush forces."
> > > >>
> > > >>Paul, that is simply not true. The campaign was not dismissed and
> > > >>certainly
> > > >>not as adventurist (the mistakes were actually conservative not
> > > >>adventurist).
> > > >>What did happen is that we were able to come to an agreemnet as to
> >some
> > > >>specific facts. First, we agreed it was a mistke that the campaign 
>did
> > >not
> > > >>put forward any national agenda, program, or principles  in any
> > >consistent
> > > >>way. Second there was no discussion of the presidential race
> >whatsoever,
> > > >>and
> > > >>that such duiscussion was actively suppressed by the campaign 
>itself.
> > >Paul
> > > >>is here back peddaling because these are facts and if they are 
>agreed
> > >upon
> > > >>facts then they must be answered for. Why was there no discussion of
> > > >>national politics? Answer that question and we will be getting
> > >somewhere.
> > > >>
> > > >>Paul makes this point when he writes:
> > > >>"To dismiss the campaign on the grounds of two strategic alliances
> >which
> > > >>barely affected tactics is to ignore the largest question of
> >progressive
> > > >>and
> > > >>revolutionary politics"
> > > >>
> > > >>Paul, the "two strategic alliances" you are referring to are with 
>the
> > > >>Greens and Republicans.  I don't have any problem with those 
>alliances
> > >so
> > > >>long as they do not result in compromises of principle and political
> > >line.
> > > >>you say the alliances "barely affected tactics" are you making a 
>joke?
> > > >>The
> > > >>campaign did not attack the serial
> > > >>killer from texas who has since stolen the presidency because we had
> > > >>republican allies. The campaign did not make it clear that Nader's
> > > >>candidacy
> > > >>was aiding and abieting Bush 2 because we had allies in the Green
> >party.
> > > >>The
> > > >>working class knows that. The working class line in November was 
>Beat
> > > >>Bush!
> > > >>Demand more from Gore!
> > > >>The definition of opportunism, Paul,  is to make long term 
>sacrifices
> > > >>for short term gains. The thinking behind the compromises is 
>textbook
> > > >>opportunism. I don't know how elese to understand your statment that
> >we
> > > >>are
> > > >>ignoring the "largest question of revolutionary politics". Paul, 
>what
> >is
> > > >>the
> > > >>largest question of revolutionary politics and how big is it. To
> >dismiss
> > > >>the
> > > >>national for the local and revolution for reform, and this is 
>precesly
> > > >>what
> > > >>was done, is opportunism.
> > > >>We fight for democracy because we want socialsim, we fight for 
>reforms
> > > >>because we want revolution and we fight locally because that is how 
>we
> > > >>make
> > > >>change nationally and internationlly. But to dismiss the ends 
>because
> >it
> > > >>is
> > > >>easier to fight for democrcay without talking aout socialism and it 
>is
> > > >>easier to fight for reforms without talking about revolution this is
> > > >>social-democracy not marxism-leninism. Check out Lenin on Bernstein 
>if
> > >you
> > > >>are interested.
> > > >>Paul wrote:
> > > >>"If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it certainly
> > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who contend 
>that
> > >the
> > > >>campaign didn?t have a working class base, that the campaign was not
> > > >>revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without detailed
> > > >>investigation."
> > > >>This reminds me of the kindergarden addage "I'm rubber and your glue
> > > >>whaever
> > > >>you say bounces off me and sticks to you". To say something is
> > >opportunism
> > > >>is not to call it doo doo. It is a word with a meaning. If you are
> >going
> > > >>to
> > > >>accuse someone of it you should at leats have an arguemnt. For
> > >arguemenst
> > > >>sake let's say that your chrage of opportunism stems from your 
>charge
> > >that
> > > >>we haven't conducted an investigation. This is a stretch but its 
>where
> > >we
> > > >>are I guess.
> > > >>
> > > >>   But what does this mean "Without detailed investigation" The 
>facts
> > >are
> > > >>that I worked on the campaign from January 22 until November 7. I
> >don't
> > > >>think that I took 2 days off from the campaign. I worked on it every
> > > >>single
> > > >>day. I quit my job to work on the campaign full time.  I did not 
>miss
> > >one
> > > >>steering committee meeting, I canvassed regularly, I met with 
>business
> > > >>owners, church groups, student groups etc. I helped create most of 
>the
> > > >>literature, I help to organize the first meeting and chaired many of
> >the
> > > >>following meetings. I was one of the three candidates.  I am not
> >patting
> > > >>my
> > > >>back, I want to know what you mean by "detailed investigation". What
> > >would
> > > >>you like me to do to conduct a "detailed investigation? Should I sit
> > >down
> > > >>and interview you about your canvassing experience?
> > > >>
> > > >>Paul continues:
> > > >>"I don?t think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened to to
> > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That?s not only unprinicipled, but opportunist
> > >because
> > > >>they use their unfounded arguments to discount the revolutionary
> > >practice
> > > >>of
> > > >>the campaign.  This dissing of revolutionary practice is predicated 
>on
> > >the
> > > >>less-significant alliances
> > > >>formed with Greens and Republicans."
> > > >>
> > > >>If the "less-significant alliances with Republicnas and Greens" did
> >not
> > > >>determine the fact that the Campign had no National Program, No
> >National
> > > >>agenda, and was in fact an anti-democrat party united front which
> > >included
> > > >>republicans and at best very confused
> > > >>greens, I would like to know what did. No discussion of the
> >Presidential
> > > >>election which was what was on every one's minds was firstly
> >opportunist
> > > >>(short term put ahead of long term) and secondly one of the main
> >reasons
> > > >>we
> > > >>were defeated in November.
> > > >>
> > > >>Again the charge of opportunism makes no sense. Paul claims U&S just
> > >wants
> > > >>to "dis the campaign" why? The majority of the U&S editors from put
> > >blood
> > > >>sweat and tears into the campaign, we all have a right to claim it 
>as
> > >our
> > > >>own. I am associated with its activities whether I like it or not, 
>my
> > >name
> > > >>appeared on all of its literature. It seems to me that you are just
> >name
> > > >>calling. Their is no basis to your charge of opportunism.
> > > >>Paul, you have never put forward an analysis of why we lost the
> > > >>election. Listening to you one would think that we won. You just
> > > >>continually
> > > >>talk about how much people liked your rap when you canvased them. I 
>do
> > >not
> > > >>doubt you are a fine canvaser but that is not the point.
> > > >>Paul wrote:
> > > >>"It?s precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current trends 
>in
> > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem credible in
> >this
> > > >>ongoing debate."
> > > >>
> > > >>What does this mean Paul.?  What are the  "current trends in
> > > >>revolutionary practice" of which I am ignorant. Is there a new plan 
>to
> > > >>raise
> > > >>a million dollars from a great man of wealth who likes your ideas? 
>Or
> > >are
> > > >>we
> > > >>just well on our way to raising the 15 grand necessary for the
> >"People's
> > > >>democratic community center office
> > > >>space". Or is there just a "new" list serve without all those pesky
> >msgs
> > > >>which interfere with "work".
> > > >>
> > > >>As to the final point, Paul wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>"Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our practice?"
> > > >>
> > > >>This statement actually sheds light on the problem you are having. 
>You
> > > >>have practice and theory seperated into two compartments. Practice 
>and
> > > >>theory are not two different things. To talk about practice is 
>theory,
> > >to
> > > >>think about practice is theory.  The only time theory is absent is
> >when
> > > >>you
> > > >>get into what Zen Buddhist call samdhi, or sports enthusiats refer 
>to
> >as
> > > >>the
> > > >>"zone" . Theory is the crytalization of practical experience. To
> >insist
> > >on
> > > >>prcatice without theory as many have or just do "work" is the 
>essence
> >of
> > > >>Social-Democracy. practice without theory has nothing to do with
> > > >>revolution.
> > > >>Nor does theory without prcatice.
> > > >>So, how do we evaluate practice? with theory.
> > > >>Social Democrats say "the movement is everything, the goal is 
>nothing"
> > > >>That is what Bernstien sd. And it is that same idea that is 
>reflected
> > >when
> > > >>we hear the mantra "do work" repeated without discussion of what 
>work
> > >for
> > > >>what purpose to what ends.
> > > >>
> > > >>Perhaps we would get farther if Paul and others who don't believe 
>any
> > > >>mistakes weremade explain why we lost? (that would be a theoretical
> >act)
> > > >>
> > > >>I would propose the following questions to "evelauate our practice"
> > > >>1. Why did we lose?
> > > >>2. did we have a national program?
> > > >>3. did we discuss the presidential election?
> > > >>4. did we promote the slogan Beat Bush! Demand more from Gore, which
> >all
> > > >>revolutionaries agreed was the correct slogan
> > > >>5. Why were people funneled into a pipe dream "office space" project
> > >after
> > > >>the November elections instead of remaining involved in electoral
> > > >>politics?
> > > >>
> > > >>I don't propose thes as rhetorical questions if we can't agree on
> > >answers
> > > >>to
> > > >>these questions we will never be able to achieve a unified analysis.
> > > >>
> > > >>Keith
> > > >>_________________________________________________________________
> > > >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > >>nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1721
Sender:"Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-28 19:36:06
Subject:Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
Message:



>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
>Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:21:27 -0000
>
>Paul,
>If you don't want to have the discussion, what can I tell you. I think that
>so far it has been productive and comraderly. The fight club refernce is
>lost on me. Unless you disgaree with my assesment of the tone and spirit of
>the discussion thus far, I would guess either your are running out of
>arguements, or you are being influenced by someone who fears struggle.
>
>      As to the obstruction charge; I think that you are refusing to look 
>at
>it dialectically. First, you say I should have orgainzed people to do the
>things that I  suggested. Actually, Paul, that's exactly what I did.
>Revolutionaries in New Brunswick and their allies in other cities have put
>out two issues of Unity & Struggle as well as a pamphlet by Baraka and
>AmiriBaraka.com now exists. U&S is being put on a more stable foting
>reflective our our actual conditions and we are in the process of uniting
>with our allies in BNF and have already done so with Revolutionaries from
>Pa'lante. We have also begun to find ways to unite with revolutionaries in
>SWORD. While there are certainly shortcomings in these efforts. We think
>that we are further along then we have ever been.
>     It is my line and my comrdaes in U&S that these are the most pressing
>tasks of revolutionaries; in two words agitation and propaganda. I say you
>refuse to look at it dialectically because you seem to think that you and
>whoever you are organizing with have cornered the market on revolutionary
>activity, that nothing else exists.
>      Paul your masg. confuses me because you say struggle over political
>line in meetings is a waste of "precious time" that could be spent "putting
>people into action". Paul at best you seem to believe that "doing work" or
>practice is good in itself. I don't believe that.  Before I get "put into
>action",  I want to know what the action is and what purpose it serves. I
>don't do "work" for work's sake. And I would never encourage anyone else to
>do so. I "worked" in NJFO since 1994 and the political line has been
>essenatially the same as the one you are upholding. We started to break out
>of it when we began the campaign but it is back in full force. A bunch of
>college students and former students canvasing New Brunswick has never won
>any referedum nor will it. The only way to advance on the local level is to
>cease acting unilaterally. And to begin to struggle tirelessly for unity of
>ALL progressive, revolutionary democartic forces and unite with the working
>people and democartic middle classes of New Brunswick. Especially their
>existing organziations. Another "join us" effort or worse "don't join us"
>effort will fail.
>      I think that fundraising for an office community democracy people's
>center space is an obstruction to revolutionary political work. Also I 
>think
>that that line (office space  blah blah) is dead in the water. And more 
>that
>those who support it refuse to ackowledge that it is a failure, and an
>incorrect line in PRACTICE as well as in theory the less we will be able to
>move forward.. Mao explains that the internal contradictions of a thing or
>process are primary over the external. I raise that point because I am sure
>that in addition to the accusation of obstructionism, we are also being
>blamed for the failure of this political line.
>      Paul, the accusatuion of "obstructionism" in the local movement is 
>the
>catchall that has been used histroically to force splits and expulsions. It
>is leveled against anyone who disagrees and has the courage to stand by and
>struggle for their line. As you may or may not know Cliff was expelled from
>NJFO in 1996 because he oppossed the ultra-left formulation of "Maoism" as
>well as the Hungerford's line of Boycatting the presidentail election. He
>was a minority of one. Evry excuse was sought to get rid of his
>"obstructionism". I can remember one meeting were he asked repeatedly "what
>is Maoism". This enraged the froup because on the one hand we were 
>"Maoists"
>and on the other we didn't know what it was; in that position how can you
>answer the question. There is an answer expulsion. Unfortunatelt Cliff
>provided the pret-text by assaulting women in the organiztion. But the fact
>remains that he was expelled because if his line (which in that case was
>correct) the reasons given for his expulsion were a disingenious pre-text.
>      Sorry for the stroll down memory lane but these problmes have not 
>been
>sorted out and thus they remain. Paul and anyone else, it is my line that
>the obstruction is the office space line and that it has failed and that
>there is a persitent refusal to acknowledge that fact.
>We need to unite revolutionaries and progressives, correct each other and
>put the defeat of Shundler in November on the top of our agenda.
>
>Keith
>PS. I am still enjopying the debate and think that it is productive.
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:11:47 -0000
> >
> >I personally am not so excited by this discussion.  I'm beginning to 
>think
> >it's rooted in some old and destructive traditions that relate to the 
>Fight
> >Club in all of us.
> >
> >As far as the obstruction goes, I think anyone who was at the NJFO and 
>NBPC
> >meetings following the election will agree that you not only made your
> >point
> >explicitly, Keith, but you persistedly repeated yourself without
> >encouraging
> >productive discussion that would have lead towards some practical action.
> >
> >With or without a majority standing, vocal advocates should always make
> >themselves clear, but you would have been a lot more effective if you had
> >focused your energy on organizing people (outside the meetings) into the
> >tasks you were suggesting, rather than speaking an inordinate amount at 
>the
> >meetings.  When that happens we all lose precious time that could be 
>spent
> >putting people into action or developing new ideas as a group in 
>meetings.
> >That's why I call it 'obstruction'.
> >
> > >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 00:49:14 -0000
> > >
> > >I am glad that this discussion is taking place, I think that it is much
> > >needed and will help us advance. It seems to me that we are finding 
>some
> > >points of agreement.
> > >There are also some points of continued disagreement that I hope we can
> > >work
> > >on.
> > >
> > >Paul wrote:
> > >"I never denied that the NPBC made mistakes, my main complaint is that
> >the
> > >most acute criticism has never made an attempt to assess our 
>relationship
> > >with the working class in NB. It's been "they made alliances with 
>greens
> > >and
> > >repubs and where is the quantified and qualitative analysis?" That's 
>been
> > >followed by calls for quantitative and qualitative formal analysis.
> > > > >Yes, we need that."
> > >
> > >It is my opinion that camapign was led by students and former students
> >and
> > >had a primarily student base. At the same time it had significant 
>support
> > >and sympathy among working people and elements of democratic middle
> > >classes.
> > >This is my one line assessment. But I also feel that working class 
>slogan
> > >in
> > >November 2000 was beat bush demand, more from Gore. By not forwarding 
>the
> > >slogan (because of the mentioned alliances) we alienated ourselves from
> > >working class people, during the course of the campaign and on election
> > >day.
> > >At the same time not advancing the slogan (beat bush...) we did not
> > >alienate
> > >ourselves from students who supported Nader but they became our 
>strongest
> > >supporters outside of the activist core and many joined the activist
> >core.
> > >     So what I am saying is that we (the People's Campaign) made a 
>choice
> > >(some more conscious of this than others) to accomadate and seek 
>student
> > >support when it led to an alienated relationship with the working 
>class.
> > >The
> > >opportunist aspect is that at least some of us believe (including Paul,
> > >judgeing from what he has written eldewhere) believe that the working
> >class
> > >is the only class that will fight relentlessly and thoughly for 
>democracy
> > >and revolution. Also when you disconnect local activity from a more 
>long
> > >term national vision/program you implicitly saying that "the movemnt is
> > >everything the goal is nothing".
> > >
> > >Paul continues:
> > >"It was definitely a mistake to ignore national issues.  Every party in
> >the
> > >united front is entitled to produce their own literature, no matter how
> > >ineffective or corny it may be. And revolutionaries and others with
> > >national
> > >stands should have taken advantage of that. Forces who sought to 
>suppress
> > >such agitprop should be called out in violation of the rules."
> > >
> > >I agree with you, but I would go farther and say that we must have a
> >united
> > >front that has a level of unity that is beyond "defeat the machine" we
> > >don't
> > >all have to be revolutionaries, or want socialism, but we all have to
> >want
> > >democracy. For instance, I am not interested in organizational unity 
>with
> > >people who do not want to stop Bret Shundler, simply because we don't
> >have
> > >time.
> > >
> > >Paul wrote:
> > >"But to assert that all we had to do was put out the correct line on
> > >national issues and we would have won, is certainly fallacious 
>thinking."
> > >
> > >I think that all we need is ea correct political line in general. Lokk 
>at
> > >this way, what else could we have done. Could we have worked harder 
>spent
> > >more hours etc. I don't think that is possible. I don't think anyone
> >saved
> > >anything for November 8.
> > >At work they say don't to work fast you have to work smart. We worked 
>as
> > >fast as we could but we didn't work smart, that is we didn't have a 
>good
> > >political line.
> > > >
> > >I agree in general with the points you made using Betleheim, I think 
>that
> > >is
> > >exactly the point.
> > >
> > >Paul ends with these questions.
> > >"This brings up the most vital question---what course do we take to
> > >organize
> > >working class people to lead the movement?  What are the implications 
>for
> > >the United Front?  Can agitation and propaganda alone be the secret
> > >weapons?
> > >This questions are think are good ones., to organize the working class 
>to
> > >lead we must fuse socialist consciousness or revolutionary ideology 
>with
> > >the
> > >working calss movemnt. I think that Lenin's What is to be done adresses
> >the
> > >above questions. If you remember that Lenin was a meber of teh Russian
> > >Social-Democratic Labor Party which was in fact a united front of 
>various
> > >revolutionary groupings and trends, both mensheviks and Bolsheviks. It
> > >didn't become the CPSUB until after October 1917.
> > >
> > >Paul you conclude with questions/accusations which I am sure have been
> >made
> > >before but you are the firts to put these things to me directly. Hurray
> >for
> > >a move against liberalism. Paul Wrote:
> > >"What is the value of six months of criticisms that neglect to suggest
> > >better methods for accomplishing these tasks?"
> > >Actually Paul I have made alternative proposals from the beginning. I
> >just
> > >re-sent the proposal that I made at the Feb. 10th meeting where it was
> > >decided to work for the "community center democratic office space". I 
>sd
> > >that we should remain involvde in elecrial politics at the local and
> > >statewide level, that we should put forward a national program or at
> >leats
> > >begin too.
> > >The accusation you make is one taht has been made often in the past six
> > >months I don't think taht it is based in reality. If you think that it 
>is
> > >accurate I would appreciate it if you would elaborate so that I can
> >correct
> > >myself.
> > >
> > >Paul asked:
> > >"What role has obstruction of meetings by forces on the Right and the
> >Left
> > >(Frank and Keith) played in our dormancy?"
> > >
> > >This is another one of those accustaions. If you mean by "obstruction"
> >that
> > >I refused to succomb to what I beleived (fund raising for the office
> > >community center democratic culture space) was a bad political line and
> > >that
> > >I continually raised my objections and criticism then by all means I am
> > >guilty. But practice has proven that it is not so easy to raise 15 
>large
> >by
> > >telling rich folks that you have a good idea to get rid of them and you
> > >would like them to finance it. As far as I am concerned prcatice has
> > >vindicated my criticism of this line. We can't even pay a two hundred
> > >dollar
> > >phone bill.
> > >    A brief story might make the absurdity of the obstruction charge
> >clear.
> > >If we all decided to take a trip to Florida and the driver got on route
> >80
> > >west and everyone but myself agreed that it was a good idea and i kept
> > >trying to get the car onto route 95 south... am I an obstructionist.
> > >Actually the obstructionsit charge is just a revulsion against 
>democracy.
> > >      Might I not just as easily say that the obstructionists are the
> > >supporters of the office/community center line who have obstructed our
> > >participation in electoral politics. Could it not be said that the
> > >obstructionists are those who refuse to look at our efforts criticially
> >and
> > >have sought to block all attempts to bring critical reflection upon the
> > >camapign.  The whole time the most reactionary section of the 
>republican
> > >party has been preparing a coup and now we have to deal with this 
>smiling
> > >neo-fascist buffoon Bret Shundler and our champion is this Geek mayor
> >from
> > >Wood bridge and we have done nothing but dream of raising money and 
>avoid
> > >criticsm.
> > >    I think that the obstructionist charge is a crock...
> > >Could we all have jsut rallied around the office community cnetr fund
> > >raising line. sure, but we would not be any farther along on it than we
> >are
> > >now and we would have the added benifit of being clueless.
> > >I am glad that we are having this discussion.
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
> > > > >>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >>CC: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com, njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > > >>Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:45:58 -0000
> > > > >>
> > > > >>I am glad that Paul took the time to respond to the U&S forum.
> > > > >>Unfortunately, he stepped back from the points that we agreed upon
> >at
> > > >that
> > > > >>meeting.
> > > > >>   One of the problems that has become apparent is that we don't
> >have
> > > > >>agreement on some basic terminology. First is the term "working
> >class
> > > > >>base".
> > > > >>Paul writes:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>"Matthew and others have contended that we didn?t reach the 
>working
> > > > >>class with the NBPC.  I can?t think of many things farther from 
>the
> > > >truth.
> > > > >>I?ve personally tried to convey this so many times..that we spoke
> >with
> > > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with community
> > >control,
> > > > >>down with the platform, down with democracy."
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Paul believes that a base of support is determined by who you 
>canvas
> > >and
> > > > >>if
> > > > >>they like what you say.  This is not what Marxist-Leninists mean 
>by
> > > >base.
> > > > >>We mean who is the leadership and who is the active body of the
> > > >campaign.
> > > > >>To
> > > > >>have a working class base you must have working class leadership 
>and
> > > > >>working
> > > > >>class membership. To be scientific, to base ourselves on the facts
> >of
> > > >this
> > > > >>issue just count. Are there more students than workers in the
> > >campaign?
> > > > >>Just review the videotapes of the NBPC meetings and you will see
> >that
> > >it
> > > > >>is
> > > > >>made up of students and led by students or former students. This 
>is
> >a
> > > > >>simple
> > > > >>fact.  You are confusing the idea of a base with sympathy.
> > > > >>     That there was working class sympathy no one is denying, this
> > > > >>sympathy
> > > > >>is what Paul experienced when he canvased. Some people who are
> >looking
> > > >for
> > > > >>excuses say that working people don't have time for meetings. This
> >is
> > > >not
> > > > >>true, they don't have time for meetings that they see as pointless
> >but
> > > > >>many
> > > > >>workers spend entire Sundays at church
> > > > >>and weeknights studying the bible. Many working peiople are very
> > >active
> > > >we
> > > > >>just have not combined and networked with them because we want 
>them
> >to
> > > > >>join
> > > > >>us rather than joining them.
> > > > >>Further along Paul wrote:
> > > > >>"As a communist, I?ll say that our most important job is to
> >represent
> > > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible."
> > > > >>We also disagree here. As Communists our main task is to organize
> >the
> > > > >>working class so that they can seize power. As Lejin explained in
> >What
> > > >is
> > > > >>to
> > > > >>be done fuse socialist consiousness with the working class 
>movemnt.
> > >The
> > > > >>middle class claiming to represent working class interests is a 
>long
> > > > >>standing problem in the U.S. movement. See the movie Reds for
> >instance
> > > >or
> > > > >>better yet check out the history. Look at the split between Malcom
> >and
> > > >the
> > > > >>NOI. That is a class split. That is the working class struggling
> > >against
> > > > >>the
> > > > >>petty-bourgeois for leadership of the movement.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Paul continues:
> > > > >>"...at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other night, the NBPC
> >was
> > > > >>roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which
> >revolutionaries
> > > > >>sold
> > > > >>out their principles to form partnerships with pro-Bush forces."
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Paul, that is simply not true. The campaign was not dismissed and
> > > > >>certainly
> > > > >>not as adventurist (the mistakes were actually conservative not
> > > > >>adventurist).
> > > > >>What did happen is that we were able to come to an agreemnet as to
> > >some
> > > > >>specific facts. First, we agreed it was a mistke that the campaign
> >did
> > > >not
> > > > >>put forward any national agenda, program, or principles  in any
> > > >consistent
> > > > >>way. Second there was no discussion of the presidential race
> > >whatsoever,
> > > > >>and
> > > > >>that such duiscussion was actively suppressed by the campaign
> >itself.
> > > >Paul
> > > > >>is here back peddaling because these are facts and if they are
> >agreed
> > > >upon
> > > > >>facts then they must be answered for. Why was there no discussion 
>of
> > > > >>national politics? Answer that question and we will be getting
> > > >somewhere.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Paul makes this point when he writes:
> > > > >>"To dismiss the campaign on the grounds of two strategic alliances
> > >which
> > > > >>barely affected tactics is to ignore the largest question of
> > >progressive
> > > > >>and
> > > > >>revolutionary politics"
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Paul, the "two strategic alliances" you are referring to are with
> >the
> > > > >>Greens and Republicans.  I don't have any problem with those
> >alliances
> > > >so
> > > > >>long as they do not result in compromises of principle and 
>political
> > > >line.
> > > > >>you say the alliances "barely affected tactics" are you making a
> >joke?
> > > > >>The
> > > > >>campaign did not attack the serial
> > > > >>killer from texas who has since stolen the presidency because we 
>had
> > > > >>republican allies. The campaign did not make it clear that Nader's
> > > > >>candidacy
> > > > >>was aiding and abieting Bush 2 because we had allies in the Green
> > >party.
> > > > >>The
> > > > >>working class knows that. The working class line in November was
> >Beat
> > > > >>Bush!
> > > > >>Demand more from Gore!
> > > > >>The definition of opportunism, Paul,  is to make long term
> >sacrifices
> > > > >>for short term gains. The thinking behind the compromises is
> >textbook
> > > > >>opportunism. I don't know how elese to understand your statment 
>that
> > >we
> > > > >>are
> > > > >>ignoring the "largest question of revolutionary politics". Paul,
> >what
> > >is
> > > > >>the
> > > > >>largest question of revolutionary politics and how big is it. To
> > >dismiss
> > > > >>the
> > > > >>national for the local and revolution for reform, and this is
> >precesly
> > > > >>what
> > > > >>was done, is opportunism.
> > > > >>We fight for democracy because we want socialsim, we fight for
> >reforms
> > > > >>because we want revolution and we fight locally because that is 
>how
> >we
> > > > >>make
> > > > >>change nationally and internationlly. But to dismiss the ends
> >because
> > >it
> > > > >>is
> > > > >>easier to fight for democrcay without talking aout socialism and 
>it
> >is
> > > > >>easier to fight for reforms without talking about revolution this 
>is
> > > > >>social-democracy not marxism-leninism. Check out Lenin on 
>Bernstein
> >if
> > > >you
> > > > >>are interested.
> > > > >>Paul wrote:
> > > > >>"If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it 
>certainly
> > > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who contend
> >that
> > > >the
> > > > >>campaign didn?t have a working class base, that the campaign was 
>not
> > > > >>revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without detailed
> > > > >>investigation."
> > > > >>This reminds me of the kindergarden addage "I'm rubber and your 
>glue
> > > > >>whaever
> > > > >>you say bounces off me and sticks to you". To say something is
> > > >opportunism
> > > > >>is not to call it doo doo. It is a word with a meaning. If you are
> > >going
> > > > >>to
> > > > >>accuse someone of it you should at leats have an arguemnt. For
> > > >arguemenst
> > > > >>sake let's say that your chrage of opportunism stems from your
> >charge
> > > >that
> > > > >>we haven't conducted an investigation. This is a stretch but its
> >where
> > > >we
> > > > >>are I guess.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>   But what does this mean "Without detailed investigation" The
> >facts
> > > >are
> > > > >>that I worked on the campaign from January 22 until November 7. I
> > >don't
> > > > >>think that I took 2 days off from the campaign. I worked on it 
>every
> > > > >>single
> > > > >>day. I quit my job to work on the campaign full time.  I did not
> >miss
> > > >one
> > > > >>steering committee meeting, I canvassed regularly, I met with
> >business
> > > > >>owners, church groups, student groups etc. I helped create most of
> >the
> > > > >>literature, I help to organize the first meeting and chaired many 
>of
> > >the
> > > > >>following meetings. I was one of the three candidates.  I am not
> > >patting
> > > > >>my
> > > > >>back, I want to know what you mean by "detailed investigation". 
>What
> > > >would
> > > > >>you like me to do to conduct a "detailed investigation? Should I 
>sit
> > > >down
> > > > >>and interview you about your canvassing experience?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Paul continues:
> > > > >>"I don?t think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened to 
>to
> > > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That?s not only unprinicipled, but opportunist
> > > >because
> > > > >>they use their unfounded arguments to discount the revolutionary
> > > >practice
> > > > >>of
> > > > >>the campaign.  This dissing of revolutionary practice is 
>predicated
> >on
> > > >the
> > > > >>less-significant alliances
> > > > >>formed with Greens and Republicans."
> > > > >>
> > > > >>If the "less-significant alliances with Republicnas and Greens" 
>did
> > >not
> > > > >>determine the fact that the Campign had no National Program, No
> > >National
> > > > >>agenda, and was in fact an anti-democrat party united front which
> > > >included
> > > > >>republicans and at best very confused
> > > > >>greens, I would like to know what did. No discussion of the
> > >Presidential
> > > > >>election which was what was on every one's minds was firstly
> > >opportunist
> > > > >>(short term put ahead of long term) and secondly one of the main
> > >reasons
> > > > >>we
> > > > >>were defeated in November.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Again the charge of opportunism makes no sense. Paul claims U&S 
>just
> > > >wants
> > > > >>to "dis the campaign" why? The majority of the U&S editors from 
>put
> > > >blood
> > > > >>sweat and tears into the campaign, we all have a right to claim it
> >as
> > > >our
> > > > >>own. I am associated with its activities whether I like it or not,
> >my
> > > >name
> > > > >>appeared on all of its literature. It seems to me that you are 
>just
> > >name
> > > > >>calling. Their is no basis to your charge of opportunism.
> > > > >>Paul, you have never put forward an analysis of why we lost the
> > > > >>election. Listening to you one would think that we won. You just
> > > > >>continually
> > > > >>talk about how much people liked your rap when you canvased them. 
>I
> >do
> > > >not
> > > > >>doubt you are a fine canvaser but that is not the point.
> > > > >>Paul wrote:
> > > > >>"It?s precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current 
>trends
> >in
> > > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem credible 
>in
> > >this
> > > > >>ongoing debate."
> > > > >>
> > > > >>What does this mean Paul.?  What are the  "current trends in
> > > > >>revolutionary practice" of which I am ignorant. Is there a new 
>plan
> >to
> > > > >>raise
> > > > >>a million dollars from a great man of wealth who likes your ideas?
> >Or
> > > >are
> > > > >>we
> > > > >>just well on our way to raising the 15 grand necessary for the
> > >"People's
> > > > >>democratic community center office
> > > > >>space". Or is there just a "new" list serve without all those 
>pesky
> > >msgs
> > > > >>which interfere with "work".
> > > > >>
> > > > >>As to the final point, Paul wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>"Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our practice?"
> > > > >>
> > > > >>This statement actually sheds light on the problem you are having.
> >You
> > > > >>have practice and theory seperated into two compartments. Practice
> >and
> > > > >>theory are not two different things. To talk about practice is
> >theory,
> > > >to
> > > > >>think about practice is theory.  The only time theory is absent is
> > >when
> > > > >>you
> > > > >>get into what Zen Buddhist call samdhi, or sports enthusiats refer
> >to
> > >as
> > > > >>the
> > > > >>"zone" . Theory is the crytalization of practical experience. To
> > >insist
> > > >on
> > > > >>prcatice without theory as many have or just do "work" is the
> >essence
> > >of
> > > > >>Social-Democracy. practice without theory has nothing to do with
> > > > >>revolution.
> > > > >>Nor does theory without prcatice.
> > > > >>So, how do we evaluate practice? with theory.
> > > > >>Social Democrats say "the movement is everything, the goal is
> >nothing"
> > > > >>That is what Bernstien sd. And it is that same idea that is
> >reflected
> > > >when
> > > > >>we hear the mantra "do work" repeated without discussion of what
> >work
> > > >for
> > > > >>what purpose to what ends.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Perhaps we would get farther if Paul and others who don't believe
> >any
> > > > >>mistakes weremade explain why we lost? (that would be a 
>theoretical
> > >act)
> > > > >>
> > > > >>I would propose the following questions to "evelauate our 
>practice"
> > > > >>1. Why did we lose?
> > > > >>2. did we have a national program?
> > > > >>3. did we discuss the presidential election?
> > > > >>4. did we promote the slogan Beat Bush! Demand more from Gore, 
>which
> > >all
> > > > >>revolutionaries agreed was the correct slogan
> > > > >>5. Why were people funneled into a pipe dream "office space" 
>project
> > > >after
> > > > >>the November elections instead of remaining involved in electoral
> > > > >>politics?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>I don't propose thes as rhetorical questions if we can't agree on
> > > >answers
> > > > >>to
> > > > >>these questions we will never be able to achieve a unified 
>analysis.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Keith
> > > > >>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1722
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-28 23:01:56
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:


If you read my e-mail, I feel Joe is divisive on the BOE question. I said 
Marxism is not necessarily divisive. No need to get so hot under the collar, 
Cliff. Personal name calling is an irrational way of determining the proper 
perspective to have on an issue.

The signatures you got were great. No one wants to take that away from you. 
Other work was done that year besides the BOE question, though. 

Lastly ... hey, why can't I have a beer and not be criticized?






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1723
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-28 23:09:17
Subject:Shank Schundler! working class base?
Message:

i do not know where you get the connection of my points to schundler? that 
is not what i wrote.

further more, where in the peoples' democratic united front is there room 
for republicans? especially when you propose that the immediate task of our 
united front be organized to bury the republicans.

i would gladly accept any allies in this task, but bright will be of no 
assistance. if he decided to work to bury schundler i don't see how he would 
affiliate with the republican party.

let's just ask him.

bright, do you support schundler? i'm layin 100 to 7 on yes - any takers?

joe



>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Fwd: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>Date: Wed, 09 Jan 1980 08:10:57 -0500
>
>Joe,
>If you think that the People's campaign registratiuon of any republicans in 
>New Brunswick had an effect on Shundler's victory.  I think that you are 
>mistaken.
>There are many reasons that Shundler won but your argument is mystical. I 
>have already fought to unite evryone in the People's Camapign and will 
>continue to do so, but it has nothing to do with registering as a 
>repoublican. I don't agree with purging anyone at the moment from the 
>People's Campaign. I think that the People's Campaign must put the defeat 
>of Shundler on the top of its agends immediately or be a useless 
>organization. If anyone doesn't like that, they can leave but I won't purge 
>them or advocate that they be purged.  If Frank wants to work for 
>Shundler's defeat I will work with him, if he doesn't, I
>won't.
>      My line is principles of unity and work towards a democartic program 
>as the basis of unity. No one is purged or expelled who agrees with the 
>principles and the program. To join or not to join is on them.
>      Purges are for a revolutionary organization not a mass based united 
>front. The line of purging from mass organizations is fallacious; it is the 
>same line that was upheld by the steering committeee of the People's 
>Camapign. Joe only disagrees with who got purged but the line is wrong in 
>form and content.
>Keith
>
>joseph smith wrote:
>
> > no act of god can change these mistakes.
> > you should make the proposal that myself and others be reinstated into 
>the peoples' campaign and that the campaign purge itself of all republicans 
>immediately. and that the campaign apply its practical tasks around the 
>surveys, that is the office space arguement.
> >
> > i am referring in my arguement with tom to the fact that the republican 
>party outside of new brunswick took notice of a couple of thousand votes 
>for registered republicans. do you not think this point is valid to bring 
>up? it is the first time it has been suggested that i know of. it is also 
>why bright was appointed to the housing authority.
> >
> > joe
> >
> > >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
> > >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: lknesta@...
> > >CC: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: Fwd: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
> > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 00:57:20 -0000
> > >
> > >Joe,
> > >I resigned my republican registration and I have also criticized the 
>actions and the political line. Yet, you constantly raise this point. 
>Perhaps you would like to issue me with some pennance. I could do two acts 
>of contritions and 15 Our Fathers if that would be satisfactory.
> > >Please advise.
> > >Keith
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> > > >>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > > >>To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, nbpc@egroups.com,
> > > >>njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > > >>Subject: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
> > > >>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:04:06 -0400
> > > >>
funny, all those "peoples' democratic" candidates are registered 
republicans.

you play yourself, i just point it out.

joe
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> >From: "Thomas DeGloma" <tdegloma@...>
> > > >> >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > >> >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, nbpc@egroups.com,
> > > >>njfo@egroups.com
> > > >> >Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Shank Schundler! working class
> > >base?
> > > >> >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:42:04 -0000
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>_________________________________________________________________
> > > >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > > >>
> > > >>To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@...
> > > >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>njfo-unsubscribe@...
> > > >>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1724
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-28 23:22:05
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:

the people vs. imperialism



>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
>Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:01:56 EDT
>
>
>
>If you read my e-mail, I feel Joe is divisive on the BOE question. I said
>Marxism is not necessarily divisive. No need to get so hot under the 
>collar,
>Cliff. Personal name calling is an irrational way of determining the proper
>perspective to have on an issue.
>
>The signatures you got were great. No one wants to take that away from you.
>Other work was done that year besides the BOE question, though.
>
>Lastly ... hey, why can't I have a beer and not be criticized?

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1725
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-29 00:22:03
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:

logic vs. illogic...






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1726
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-29 12:58:40
Subject:Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
Message:

I want to address this from a different perspective than usual.  The
office space things failed, yes. I said it.  I don't think the real
problem is that it failed because it's generally a bad political line.

If we had robust campaigns during the winter, we could have put some
people into office renting, or whatever and that might have been
critical.   But we didn't have other things going on.

So instead of calling the office space line the principal cause of us
falling flat, why don't we ask why the NBPC didn't have more
organizers ready to initiate work right after the campaign?  That goes
back to another question: What could we do better when we organize so
that the people we work with begin to take initiative in political
work themselves?  So that people become organizers instead of
task-doers, or activists.

That is, how do people change their relationship to real democratic
politics?  How do we change these relations?  That is, change our
relations with our network so that our network begins to change its
relations with its people.

I think we're better off asking questions like this, instead of
pinning longterm success and failure to singular decisions while
years' long processes are really the causal factors behind our
successs and failures with the NBPC last fall, for instance.

I think that approach is more healthy for the movement, people
shouldn't be interrogated , like BOL is so good at, for ideological
mistakes they didn't give birth to.  Historical materialism also
demands that all these trends are born from their pasts and give birth
to their futures.   All those who call themselves Marxists should know
that--they should begin to reexamine their (our) tendency to reduce
ideological trends to single moments in time when their political
rivals acted incorrectly.

I think this is a step towards cultural revolution that will allow us
to practice Unity and Struggle on a higher level.   Paul



--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...> wrote:
>
>
>
> >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:21:27 -0000
> >
> >Paul,
> >If you don't want to have the discussion, what can I tell you. I
think that
> >so far it has been productive and comraderly. The fight club
refernce is
> >lost on me. Unless you disgaree with my assesment of the tone and
spirit of
> >the discussion thus far, I would guess either your are running out of
> >arguements, or you are being influenced by someone who fears struggle.
> >
> >      As to the obstruction charge; I think that you are refusing
to look
> >at
> >it dialectically. First, you say I should have orgainzed people to
do the
> >things that I  suggested. Actually, Paul, that's exactly what I did.
> >Revolutionaries in New Brunswick and their allies in other cities
have put
> >out two issues of Unity & Struggle as well as a pamphlet by Baraka and
> >AmiriBaraka.com now exists. U&S is being put on a more stable foting
> >reflective our our actual conditions and we are in the process of
uniting
> >with our allies in BNF and have already done so with
Revolutionaries from
> >Pa'lante. We have also begun to find ways to unite with
revolutionaries in
> >SWORD. While there are certainly shortcomings in these efforts. We
think
> >that we are further along then we have ever been.
> >     It is my line and my comrdaes in U&S that these are the most
pressing
> >tasks of revolutionaries; in two words agitation and propaganda. I
say you
> >refuse to look at it dialectically because you seem to think that
you and
> >whoever you are organizing with have cornered the market on
revolutionary
> >activity, that nothing else exists.
> >      Paul your masg. confuses me because you say struggle over
political
> >line in meetings is a waste of "precious time" that could be spent
"putting
> >people into action". Paul at best you seem to believe that "doing
work" or
> >practice is good in itself. I don't believe that.  Before I get
"put into
> >action",  I want to know what the action is and what purpose it
serves. I
> >don't do "work" for work's sake. And I would never encourage anyone
else to
> >do so. I "worked" in NJFO since 1994 and the political line has been
> >essenatially the same as the one you are upholding. We started to
break out
> >of it when we began the campaign but it is back in full force. A
bunch of
> >college students and former students canvasing New Brunswick has
never won
> >any referedum nor will it. The only way to advance on the local
level is to
> >cease acting unilaterally. And to begin to struggle tirelessly for
unity of
> >ALL progressive, revolutionary democartic forces and unite with the
working
> >people and democartic middle classes of New Brunswick. Especially their
> >existing organziations. Another "join us" effort or worse "don't
join us"
> >effort will fail.
> >      I think that fundraising for an office community democracy
people's
> >center space is an obstruction to revolutionary political work. Also I
> >think
> >that that line (office space  blah blah) is dead in the water. And
more
> >that
> >those who support it refuse to ackowledge that it is a failure, and an
> >incorrect line in PRACTICE as well as in theory the less we will be
able to
> >move forward.. Mao explains that the internal contradictions of a
thing or
> >process are primary over the external. I raise that point because I
am sure
> >that in addition to the accusation of obstructionism, we are also being
> >blamed for the failure of this political line.
> >      Paul, the accusatuion of "obstructionism" in the local
movement is
> >the
> >catchall that has been used histroically to force splits and
expulsions. It
> >is leveled against anyone who disagrees and has the courage to
stand by and
> >struggle for their line. As you may or may not know Cliff was
expelled from
> >NJFO in 1996 because he oppossed the ultra-left formulation of
"Maoism" as
> >well as the Hungerford's line of Boycatting the presidentail
election. He
> >was a minority of one. Evry excuse was sought to get rid of his
> >"obstructionism". I can remember one meeting were he asked
repeatedly "what
> >is Maoism". This enraged the froup because on the one hand we were
> >"Maoists"
> >and on the other we didn't know what it was; in that position how
can you
> >answer the question. There is an answer expulsion. Unfortunatelt Cliff
> >provided the pret-text by assaulting women in the organiztion. But
the fact
> >remains that he was expelled because if his line (which in that
case was
> >correct) the reasons given for his expulsion were a disingenious
pre-text.
> >      Sorry for the stroll down memory lane but these problmes have
not
> >been
> >sorted out and thus they remain. Paul and anyone else, it is my
line that
> >the obstruction is the office space line and that it has failed and
that
> >there is a persitent refusal to acknowledge that fact.
> >We need to unite revolutionaries and progressives, correct each
other and
> >put the defeat of Shundler in November on the top of our agenda.
> >
> >Keith
> >PS. I am still enjopying the debate and think that it is productive.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@h...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:11:47 -0000
> > >
> > >I personally am not so excited by this discussion.  I'm beginning to
> >think
> > >it's rooted in some old and destructive traditions that relate to
the
> >Fight
> > >Club in all of us.
> > >
> > >As far as the obstruction goes, I think anyone who was at the
NJFO and
> >NBPC
> > >meetings following the election will agree that you not only made
your
> > >point
> > >explicitly, Keith, but you persistedly repeated yourself without
> > >encouraging
> > >productive discussion that would have lead towards some practical
action.
> > >
> > >With or without a majority standing, vocal advocates should
always make
> > >themselves clear, but you would have been a lot more effective if
you had
> > >focused your energy on organizing people (outside the meetings)
into the
> > >tasks you were suggesting, rather than speaking an inordinate
amount at
> >the
> > >meetings.  When that happens we all lose precious time that could be
> >spent
> > >putting people into action or developing new ideas as a group in
> >meetings.
> > >That's why I call it 'obstruction'.
> > >
> > > >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> > > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 00:49:14 -0000
> > > >
> > > >I am glad that this discussion is taking place, I think that it
is much
> > > >needed and will help us advance. It seems to me that we are
finding
> >some
> > > >points of agreement.
> > > >There are also some points of continued disagreement that I
hope we can
> > > >work
> > > >on.
> > > >
> > > >Paul wrote:
> > > >"I never denied that the NPBC made mistakes, my main complaint
is that
> > >the
> > > >most acute criticism has never made an attempt to assess our
> >relationship
> > > >with the working class in NB. It's been "they made alliances with
> >greens
> > > >and
> > > >repubs and where is the quantified and qualitative analysis?"
That's
> >been
> > > >followed by calls for quantitative and qualitative formal analysis.
> > > > > >Yes, we need that."
> > > >
> > > >It is my opinion that camapign was led by students and former
students
> > >and
> > > >had a primarily student base. At the same time it had significant
> >support
> > > >and sympathy among working people and elements of democratic middle
> > > >classes.
> > > >This is my one line assessment. But I also feel that working class
> >slogan
> > > >in
> > > >November 2000 was beat bush demand, more from Gore. By not
forwarding
> >the
> > > >slogan (because of the mentioned alliances) we alienated
ourselves from
> > > >working class people, during the course of the campaign and on
election
> > > >day.
> > > >At the same time not advancing the slogan (beat bush...) we did not
> > > >alienate
> > > >ourselves from students who supported Nader but they became our
> >strongest
> > > >supporters outside of the activist core and many joined the
activist
> > >core.
> > > >     So what I am saying is that we (the People's Campaign) made a
> >choice
> > > >(some more conscious of this than others) to accomadate and seek
> >student
> > > >support when it led to an alienated relationship with the working
> >class.
> > > >The
> > > >opportunist aspect is that at least some of us believe
(including Paul,
> > > >judgeing from what he has written eldewhere) believe that the
working
> > >class
> > > >is the only class that will fight relentlessly and thoughly for
> >democracy
> > > >and revolution. Also when you disconnect local activity from a
more
> >long
> > > >term national vision/program you implicitly saying that "the
movemnt is
> > > >everything the goal is nothing".
> > > >
> > > >Paul continues:
> > > >"It was definitely a mistake to ignore national issues.  Every
party in
> > >the
> > > >united front is entitled to produce their own literature, no
matter how
> > > >ineffective or corny it may be. And revolutionaries and others with
> > > >national
> > > >stands should have taken advantage of that. Forces who sought to
> >suppress
> > > >such agitprop should be called out in violation of the rules."
> > > >
> > > >I agree with you, but I would go farther and say that we must
have a
> > >united
> > > >front that has a level of unity that is beyond "defeat the
machine" we
> > > >don't
> > > >all have to be revolutionaries, or want socialism, but we all
have to
> > >want
> > > >democracy. For instance, I am not interested in organizational
unity
> >with
> > > >people who do not want to stop Bret Shundler, simply because we
don't
> > >have
> > > >time.
> > > >
> > > >Paul wrote:
> > > >"But to assert that all we had to do was put out the correct
line on
> > > >national issues and we would have won, is certainly fallacious
> >thinking."
> > > >
> > > >I think that all we need is ea correct political line in
general. Lokk
> >at
> > > >this way, what else could we have done. Could we have worked
harder
> >spent
> > > >more hours etc. I don't think that is possible. I don't think
anyone
> > >saved
> > > >anything for November 8.
> > > >At work they say don't to work fast you have to work smart. We
worked
> >as
> > > >fast as we could but we didn't work smart, that is we didn't
have a
> >good
> > > >political line.
> > > > >
> > > >I agree in general with the points you made using Betleheim, I
think
> >that
> > > >is
> > > >exactly the point.
> > > >
> > > >Paul ends with these questions.
> > > >"This brings up the most vital question---what course do we take to
> > > >organize
> > > >working class people to lead the movement?  What are the
implications
> >for
> > > >the United Front?  Can agitation and propaganda alone be the secret
> > > >weapons?
> > > >This questions are think are good ones., to organize the
working class
> >to
> > > >lead we must fuse socialist consciousness or revolutionary
ideology
> >with
> > > >the
> > > >working calss movemnt. I think that Lenin's What is to be done
adresses
> > >the
> > > >above questions. If you remember that Lenin was a meber of teh
Russian
> > > >Social-Democratic Labor Party which was in fact a united front of
> >various
> > > >revolutionary groupings and trends, both mensheviks and
Bolsheviks. It
> > > >didn't become the CPSUB until after October 1917.
> > > >
> > > >Paul you conclude with questions/accusations which I am sure
have been
> > >made
> > > >before but you are the firts to put these things to me
directly. Hurray
> > >for
> > > >a move against liberalism. Paul Wrote:
> > > >"What is the value of six months of criticisms that neglect to
suggest
> > > >better methods for accomplishing these tasks?"
> > > >Actually Paul I have made alternative proposals from the
beginning. I
> > >just
> > > >re-sent the proposal that I made at the Feb. 10th meeting where
it was
> > > >decided to work for the "community center democratic office
space". I
> >sd
> > > >that we should remain involvde in elecrial politics at the
local and
> > > >statewide level, that we should put forward a national program
or at
> > >leats
> > > >begin too.
> > > >The accusation you make is one taht has been made often in the
past six
> > > >months I don't think taht it is based in reality. If you think
that it
> >is
> > > >accurate I would appreciate it if you would elaborate so that I can
> > >correct
> > > >myself.
> > > >
> > > >Paul asked:
> > > >"What role has obstruction of meetings by forces on the Right
and the
> > >Left
> > > >(Frank and Keith) played in our dormancy?"
> > > >
> > > >This is another one of those accustaions. If you mean by
"obstruction"
> > >that
> > > >I refused to succomb to what I beleived (fund raising for the
office
> > > >community center democratic culture space) was a bad political
line and
> > > >that
> > > >I continually raised my objections and criticism then by all
means I am
> > > >guilty. But practice has proven that it is not so easy to raise 15
> >large
> > >by
> > > >telling rich folks that you have a good idea to get rid of them
and you
> > > >would like them to finance it. As far as I am concerned
prcatice has
> > > >vindicated my criticism of this line. We can't even pay a two
hundred
> > > >dollar
> > > >phone bill.
> > > >    A brief story might make the absurdity of the obstruction
charge
> > >clear.
> > > >If we all decided to take a trip to Florida and the driver got
on route
> > >80
> > > >west and everyone but myself agreed that it was a good idea and
i kept
> > > >trying to get the car onto route 95 south... am I an
obstructionist.
> > > >Actually the obstructionsit charge is just a revulsion against
> >democracy.
> > > >      Might I not just as easily say that the obstructionists
are the
> > > >supporters of the office/community center line who have
obstructed our
> > > >participation in electoral politics. Could it not be said that the
> > > >obstructionists are those who refuse to look at our efforts
criticially
> > >and
> > > >have sought to block all attempts to bring critical reflection
upon the
> > > >camapign.  The whole time the most reactionary section of the
> >republican
> > > >party has been preparing a coup and now we have to deal with this
> >smiling
> > > >neo-fascist buffoon Bret Shundler and our champion is this Geek
mayor
> > >from
> > > >Wood bridge and we have done nothing but dream of raising money
and
> >avoid
> > > >criticsm.
> > > >    I think that the obstructionist charge is a crock...
> > > >Could we all have jsut rallied around the office community
cnetr fund
> > > >raising line. sure, but we would not be any farther along on it
than we
> > >are
> > > >now and we would have the added benifit of being clueless.
> > > >I am glad that we are having this discussion.
> > > >
> > > >Keith
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> > > > > >>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >>CC: nbpcmembers@y..., njfo@y...
> > > > > >>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > > > >>Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:45:58 -0000
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>I am glad that Paul took the time to respond to the U&S forum.
> > > > > >>Unfortunately, he stepped back from the points that we
agreed upon
> > >at
> > > > >that
> > > > > >>meeting.
> > > > > >>   One of the problems that has become apparent is that we
don't
> > >have
> > > > > >>agreement on some basic terminology. First is the term
"working
> > >class
> > > > > >>base".
> > > > > >>Paul writes:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>"Matthew and others have contended that we didn?t reach the
> >working
> > > > > >>class with the NBPC.  I can?t think of many things farther
from
> >the
> > > > >truth.
> > > > > >>I?ve personally tried to convey this so many times..that
we spoke
> > >with
> > > > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with
community
> > > >control,
> > > > > >>down with the platform, down with democracy."
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Paul believes that a base of support is determined by who you
> >canvas
> > > >and
> > > > > >>if
> > > > > >>they like what you say.  This is not what
Marxist-Leninists mean
> >by
> > > > >base.
> > > > > >>We mean who is the leadership and who is the active body
of the
> > > > >campaign.
> > > > > >>To
> > > > > >>have a working class base you must have working class
leadership
> >and
> > > > > >>working
> > > > > >>class membership. To be scientific, to base ourselves on
the facts
> > >of
> > > > >this
> > > > > >>issue just count. Are there more students than workers in the
> > > >campaign?
> > > > > >>Just review the videotapes of the NBPC meetings and you
will see
> > >that
> > > >it
> > > > > >>is
> > > > > >>made up of students and led by students or former
students. This
> >is
> > >a
> > > > > >>simple
> > > > > >>fact.  You are confusing the idea of a base with sympathy.
> > > > > >>     That there was working class sympathy no one is
denying, this
> > > > > >>sympathy
> > > > > >>is what Paul experienced when he canvased. Some people who are
> > >looking
> > > > >for
> > > > > >>excuses say that working people don't have time for
meetings. This
> > >is
> > > > >not
> > > > > >>true, they don't have time for meetings that they see as
pointless
> > >but
> > > > > >>many
> > > > > >>workers spend entire Sundays at church
> > > > > >>and weeknights studying the bible. Many working peiople
are very
> > > >active
> > > > >we
> > > > > >>just have not combined and networked with them because we
want
> >them
> > >to
> > > > > >>join
> > > > > >>us rather than joining them.
> > > > > >>Further along Paul wrote:
> > > > > >>"As a communist, I?ll say that our most important job is to
> > >represent
> > > > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible."
> > > > > >>We also disagree here. As Communists our main task is to
organize
> > >the
> > > > > >>working class so that they can seize power. As Lejin
explained in
> > >What
> > > > >is
> > > > > >>to
> > > > > >>be done fuse socialist consiousness with the working class
> >movemnt.
> > > >The
> > > > > >>middle class claiming to represent working class interests
is a
> >long
> > > > > >>standing problem in the U.S. movement. See the movie Reds for
> > >instance
> > > > >or
> > > > > >>better yet check out the history. Look at the split
between Malcom
> > >and
> > > > >the
> > > > > >>NOI. That is a class split. That is the working class
struggling
> > > >against
> > > > > >>the
> > > > > >>petty-bourgeois for leadership of the movement.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Paul continues:
> > > > > >>"...at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other night,
the NBPC
> > >was
> > > > > >>roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which
> > >revolutionaries
> > > > > >>sold
> > > > > >>out their principles to form partnerships with pro-Bush
forces."
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Paul, that is simply not true. The campaign was not
dismissed and
> > > > > >>certainly
> > > > > >>not as adventurist (the mistakes were actually
conservative not
> > > > > >>adventurist).
> > > > > >>What did happen is that we were able to come to an
agreemnet as to
> > > >some
> > > > > >>specific facts. First, we agreed it was a mistke that the
campaign
> > >did
> > > > >not
> > > > > >>put forward any national agenda, program, or principles
in any
> > > > >consistent
> > > > > >>way. Second there was no discussion of the presidential race
> > > >whatsoever,
> > > > > >>and
> > > > > >>that such duiscussion was actively suppressed by the campaign
> > >itself.
> > > > >Paul
> > > > > >>is here back peddaling because these are facts and if they are
> > >agreed
> > > > >upon
> > > > > >>facts then they must be answered for. Why was there no
discussion
> >of
> > > > > >>national politics? Answer that question and we will be getting
> > > > >somewhere.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Paul makes this point when he writes:
> > > > > >>"To dismiss the campaign on the grounds of two strategic
alliances
> > > >which
> > > > > >>barely affected tactics is to ignore the largest question of
> > > >progressive
> > > > > >>and
> > > > > >>revolutionary politics"
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Paul, the "two strategic alliances" you are referring to
are with
> > >the
> > > > > >>Greens and Republicans.  I don't have any problem with those
> > >alliances
> > > > >so
> > > > > >>long as they do not result in compromises of principle and
> >political
> > > > >line.
> > > > > >>you say the alliances "barely affected tactics" are you
making a
> > >joke?
> > > > > >>The
> > > > > >>campaign did not attack the serial
> > > > > >>killer from texas who has since stolen the presidency
because we
> >had
> > > > > >>republican allies. The campaign did not make it clear that
Nader's
> > > > > >>candidacy
> > > > > >>was aiding and abieting Bush 2 because we had allies in
the Green
> > > >party.
> > > > > >>The
> > > > > >>working class knows that. The working class line in
November was
> > >Beat
> > > > > >>Bush!
> > > > > >>Demand more from Gore!
> > > > > >>The definition of opportunism, Paul,  is to make long term
> > >sacrifices
> > > > > >>for short term gains. The thinking behind the compromises is
> > >textbook
> > > > > >>opportunism. I don't know how elese to understand your
statment
> >that
> > > >we
> > > > > >>are
> > > > > >>ignoring the "largest question of revolutionary politics".
Paul,
> > >what
> > > >is
> > > > > >>the
> > > > > >>largest question of revolutionary politics and how big is
it. To
> > > >dismiss
> > > > > >>the
> > > > > >>national for the local and revolution for reform, and this is
> > >precesly
> > > > > >>what
> > > > > >>was done, is opportunism.
> > > > > >>We fight for democracy because we want socialsim, we fight for
> > >reforms
> > > > > >>because we want revolution and we fight locally because
that is
> >how
> > >we
> > > > > >>make
> > > > > >>change nationally and internationlly. But to dismiss the ends
> > >because
> > > >it
> > > > > >>is
> > > > > >>easier to fight for democrcay without talking aout
socialism and
> >it
> > >is
> > > > > >>easier to fight for reforms without talking about
revolution this
> >is
> > > > > >>social-democracy not marxism-leninism. Check out Lenin on
> >Bernstein
> > >if
> > > > >you
> > > > > >>are interested.
> > > > > >>Paul wrote:
> > > > > >>"If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it
> >certainly
> > > > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who
contend
> > >that
> > > > >the
> > > > > >>campaign didn?t have a working class base, that the
campaign was
> >not
> > > > > >>revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without
detailed
> > > > > >>investigation."
> > > > > >>This reminds me of the kindergarden addage "I'm rubber and
your
> >glue
> > > > > >>whaever
> > > > > >>you say bounces off me and sticks to you". To say something is
> > > > >opportunism
> > > > > >>is not to call it doo doo. It is a word with a meaning. If
you are
> > > >going
> > > > > >>to
> > > > > >>accuse someone of it you should at leats have an arguemnt. For
> > > > >arguemenst
> > > > > >>sake let's say that your chrage of opportunism stems from your
> > >charge
> > > > >that
> > > > > >>we haven't conducted an investigation. This is a stretch
but its
> > >where
> > > > >we
> > > > > >>are I guess.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>   But what does this mean "Without detailed
investigation" The
> > >facts
> > > > >are
> > > > > >>that I worked on the campaign from January 22 until
November 7. I
> > > >don't
> > > > > >>think that I took 2 days off from the campaign. I worked
on it
> >every
> > > > > >>single
> > > > > >>day. I quit my job to work on the campaign full time.  I
did not
> > >miss
> > > > >one
> > > > > >>steering committee meeting, I canvassed regularly, I met with
> > >business
> > > > > >>owners, church groups, student groups etc. I helped create
most of
> > >the
> > > > > >>literature, I help to organize the first meeting and
chaired many
> >of
> > > >the
> > > > > >>following meetings. I was one of the three candidates.  I
am not
> > > >patting
> > > > > >>my
> > > > > >>back, I want to know what you mean by "detailed
investigation".
> >What
> > > > >would
> > > > > >>you like me to do to conduct a "detailed investigation?
Should I
> >sit
> > > > >down
> > > > > >>and interview you about your canvassing experience?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Paul continues:
> > > > > >>"I don?t think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even
listened to
> >to
> > > > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That?s not only unprinicipled, but
opportunist
> > > > >because
> > > > > >>they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
revolutionary
> > > > >practice
> > > > > >>of
> > > > > >>the campaign.  This dissing of revolutionary practice is
> >predicated
> > >on
> > > > >the
> > > > > >>less-significant alliances
> > > > > >>formed with Greens and Republicans."
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>If the "less-significant alliances with Republicnas and
Greens"
> >did
> > > >not
> > > > > >>determine the fact that the Campign had no National
Program, No
> > > >National
> > > > > >>agenda, and was in fact an anti-democrat party united
front which
> > > > >included
> > > > > >>republicans and at best very confused
> > > > > >>greens, I would like to know what did. No discussion of the
> > > >Presidential
> > > > > >>election which was what was on every one's minds was firstly
> > > >opportunist
> > > > > >>(short term put ahead of long term) and secondly one of
the main
> > > >reasons
> > > > > >>we
> > > > > >>were defeated in November.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Again the charge of opportunism makes no sense. Paul
claims U&S
> >just
> > > > >wants
> > > > > >>to "dis the campaign" why? The majority of the U&S editors
from
> >put
> > > > >blood
> > > > > >>sweat and tears into the campaign, we all have a right to
claim it
> > >as
> > > > >our
> > > > > >>own. I am associated with its activities whether I like it
or not,
> > >my
> > > > >name
> > > > > >>appeared on all of its literature. It seems to me that you
are
> >just
> > > >name
> > > > > >>calling. Their is no basis to your charge of opportunism.
> > > > > >>Paul, you have never put forward an analysis of why we
lost the
> > > > > >>election. Listening to you one would think that we won.
You just
> > > > > >>continually
> > > > > >>talk about how much people liked your rap when you
canvased them.
> >I
> > >do
> > > > >not
> > > > > >>doubt you are a fine canvaser but that is not the point.
> > > > > >>Paul wrote:
> > > > > >>"It?s precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current
> >trends
> > >in
> > > > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem
credible
> >in
> > > >this
> > > > > >>ongoing debate."
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>What does this mean Paul.?  What are the  "current trends in
> > > > > >>revolutionary practice" of which I am ignorant. Is there a
new
> >plan
> > >to
> > > > > >>raise
> > > > > >>a million dollars from a great man of wealth who likes
your ideas?
> > >Or
> > > > >are
> > > > > >>we
> > > > > >>just well on our way to raising the 15 grand necessary for the
> > > >"People's
> > > > > >>democratic community center office
> > > > > >>space". Or is there just a "new" list serve without all those
> >pesky
> > > >msgs
> > > > > >>which interfere with "work".
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>As to the final point, Paul wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>"Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our
practice?"
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>This statement actually sheds light on the problem you are
having.
> > >You
> > > > > >>have practice and theory seperated into two compartments.
Practice
> > >and
> > > > > >>theory are not two different things. To talk about practice is
> > >theory,
> > > > >to
> > > > > >>think about practice is theory.  The only time theory is
absent is
> > > >when
> > > > > >>you
> > > > > >>get into what Zen Buddhist call samdhi, or sports
enthusiats refer
> > >to
> > > >as
> > > > > >>the
> > > > > >>"zone" . Theory is the crytalization of practical
experience. To
> > > >insist
> > > > >on
> > > > > >>prcatice without theory as many have or just do "work" is the
> > >essence
> > > >of
> > > > > >>Social-Democracy. practice without theory has nothing to
do with
> > > > > >>revolution.
> > > > > >>Nor does theory without prcatice.
> > > > > >>So, how do we evaluate practice? with theory.
> > > > > >>Social Democrats say "the movement is everything, the goal is
> > >nothing"
> > > > > >>That is what Bernstien sd. And it is that same idea that is
> > >reflected
> > > > >when
> > > > > >>we hear the mantra "do work" repeated without discussion
of what
> > >work
> > > > >for
> > > > > >>what purpose to what ends.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Perhaps we would get farther if Paul and others who don't
believe
> > >any
> > > > > >>mistakes weremade explain why we lost? (that would be a
> >theoretical
> > > >act)
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>I would propose the following questions to "evelauate our
> >practice"
> > > > > >>1. Why did we lose?
> > > > > >>2. did we have a national program?
> > > > > >>3. did we discuss the presidential election?
> > > > > >>4. did we promote the slogan Beat Bush! Demand more from
Gore,
> >which
> > > >all
> > > > > >>revolutionaries agreed was the correct slogan
> > > > > >>5. Why were people funneled into a pipe dream "office space"
> >project
> > > > >after
> > > > > >>the November elections instead of remaining involved in
electoral
> > > > > >>politics?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>I don't propose thes as rhetorical questions if we can't
agree on
> > > > >answers
> > > > > >>to
> > > > > >>these questions we will never be able to achieve a unified
> >analysis.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Keith
> > > > >
>>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > >>nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >_________________________________________________________________
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> > > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > >nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
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>
> _________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1727
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-29 13:00:06
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:

I understand that,  but how do you say it to people who don't
understand imperialism?


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> the people vs. imperialism
>
>
>
> >From: FBRIGHT123@a...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
> >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:01:56 EDT
> >
> >
> >
> >If you read my e-mail, I feel Joe is divisive on the BOE question.
I said
> >Marxism is not necessarily divisive. No need to get so hot under the
> >collar,
> >Cliff. Personal name calling is an irrational way of determining
the proper
> >perspective to have on an issue.
> >
> >The signatures you got were great. No one wants to take that away
from you.
> >Other work was done that year besides the BOE question, though.
> >
> >Lastly ... hey, why can't I have a beer and not be criticized?
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1728
Sender:"Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-29 13:22:05
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
Message:

paul,

"So instead of calling the office space line the principal cause of us
>falling flat, why don't we ask why the NBPC didn't have more
>organizers ready to initiate work right after the campaign?  That goes
>back to another question: What could we do better when we organize so
>that the people we work with begin to take initiative in political
>work themselves?  So that people become organizers instead of
>task-doers, or activists."

in order to get the office space, the NBPC expelled revolutionaries, allied 
with republicans and greens over NB youth, and forfeited the beat bush, nix 
nader national line.  i don't think that you can blame the people who joined 
during the campaign for it's lack of activity now. if no clear position was 
put out to them of who are our allies, who are our enemies, along with the 
absence of a national position, who and what are these people supposed to be 
organizing for?


>From: shorepaulie@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:58:40 -0000
>
>I want to address this from a different perspective than usual.  The
>office space things failed, yes. I said it.  I don't think the real
>problem is that it failed because it's generally a bad political line.
>
>If we had robust campaigns during the winter, we could have put some
>people into office renting, or whatever and that might have been
>critical.   But we didn't have other things going on.
>
>So instead of calling the office space line the principal cause of us
>falling flat, why don't we ask why the NBPC didn't have more
>organizers ready to initiate work right after the campaign?  That goes
>back to another question: What could we do better when we organize so
>that the people we work with begin to take initiative in political
>work themselves?  So that people become organizers instead of
>task-doers, or activists.
>
>That is, how do people change their relationship to real democratic
>politics?  How do we change these relations?  That is, change our
>relations with our network so that our network begins to change its
>relations with its people.
>
>I think we're better off asking questions like this, instead of
>pinning longterm success and failure to singular decisions while
>years' long processes are really the causal factors behind our
>successs and failures with the NBPC last fall, for instance.
>
>I think that approach is more healthy for the movement, people
>shouldn't be interrogated , like BOL is so good at, for ideological
>mistakes they didn't give birth to.  Historical materialism also
>demands that all these trends are born from their pasts and give birth
>to their futures.   All those who call themselves Marxists should know
>that--they should begin to reexamine their (our) tendency to reduce
>ideological trends to single moments in time when their political
>rivals acted incorrectly.
>
>I think this is a step towards cultural revolution that will allow us
>to practice Unity and Struggle on a higher level.   Paul
>
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:21:27 -0000
> > >
> > >Paul,
> > >If you don't want to have the discussion, what can I tell you. I
>think that
> > >so far it has been productive and comraderly. The fight club
>refernce is
> > >lost on me. Unless you disgaree with my assesment of the tone and
>spirit of
> > >the discussion thus far, I would guess either your are running out of
> > >arguements, or you are being influenced by someone who fears struggle.
> > >
> > >      As to the obstruction charge; I think that you are refusing
>to look
> > >at
> > >it dialectically. First, you say I should have orgainzed people to
>do the
> > >things that I  suggested. Actually, Paul, that's exactly what I did.
> > >Revolutionaries in New Brunswick and their allies in other cities
>have put
> > >out two issues of Unity & Struggle as well as a pamphlet by Baraka and
> > >AmiriBaraka.com now exists. U&S is being put on a more stable foting
> > >reflective our our actual conditions and we are in the process of
>uniting
> > >with our allies in BNF and have already done so with
>Revolutionaries from
> > >Pa'lante. We have also begun to find ways to unite with
>revolutionaries in
> > >SWORD. While there are certainly shortcomings in these efforts. We
>think
> > >that we are further along then we have ever been.
> > >     It is my line and my comrdaes in U&S that these are the most
>pressing
> > >tasks of revolutionaries; in two words agitation and propaganda. I
>say you
> > >refuse to look at it dialectically because you seem to think that
>you and
> > >whoever you are organizing with have cornered the market on
>revolutionary
> > >activity, that nothing else exists.
> > >      Paul your masg. confuses me because you say struggle over
>political
> > >line in meetings is a waste of "precious time" that could be spent
>"putting
> > >people into action". Paul at best you seem to believe that "doing
>work" or
> > >practice is good in itself. I don't believe that.  Before I get
>"put into
> > >action",  I want to know what the action is and what purpose it
>serves. I
> > >don't do "work" for work's sake. And I would never encourage anyone
>else to
> > >do so. I "worked" in NJFO since 1994 and the political line has been
> > >essenatially the same as the one you are upholding. We started to
>break out
> > >of it when we began the campaign but it is back in full force. A
>bunch of
> > >college students and former students canvasing New Brunswick has
>never won
> > >any referedum nor will it. The only way to advance on the local
>level is to
> > >cease acting unilaterally. And to begin to struggle tirelessly for
>unity of
> > >ALL progressive, revolutionary democartic forces and unite with the
>working
> > >people and democartic middle classes of New Brunswick. Especially their
> > >existing organziations. Another "join us" effort or worse "don't
>join us"
> > >effort will fail.
> > >      I think that fundraising for an office community democracy
>people's
> > >center space is an obstruction to revolutionary political work. Also I
> > >think
> > >that that line (office space  blah blah) is dead in the water. And
>more
> > >that
> > >those who support it refuse to ackowledge that it is a failure, and an
> > >incorrect line in PRACTICE as well as in theory the less we will be
>able to
> > >move forward.. Mao explains that the internal contradictions of a
>thing or
> > >process are primary over the external. I raise that point because I
>am sure
> > >that in addition to the accusation of obstructionism, we are also being
> > >blamed for the failure of this political line.
> > >      Paul, the accusatuion of "obstructionism" in the local
>movement is
> > >the
> > >catchall that has been used histroically to force splits and
>expulsions. It
> > >is leveled against anyone who disagrees and has the courage to
>stand by and
> > >struggle for their line. As you may or may not know Cliff was
>expelled from
> > >NJFO in 1996 because he oppossed the ultra-left formulation of
>"Maoism" as
> > >well as the Hungerford's line of Boycatting the presidentail
>election. He
> > >was a minority of one. Evry excuse was sought to get rid of his
> > >"obstructionism". I can remember one meeting were he asked
>repeatedly "what
> > >is Maoism". This enraged the froup because on the one hand we were
> > >"Maoists"
> > >and on the other we didn't know what it was; in that position how
>can you
> > >answer the question. There is an answer expulsion. Unfortunatelt Cliff
> > >provided the pret-text by assaulting women in the organiztion. But
>the fact
> > >remains that he was expelled because if his line (which in that
>case was
> > >correct) the reasons given for his expulsion were a disingenious
>pre-text.
> > >      Sorry for the stroll down memory lane but these problmes have
>not
> > >been
> > >sorted out and thus they remain. Paul and anyone else, it is my
>line that
> > >the obstruction is the office space line and that it has failed and
>that
> > >there is a persitent refusal to acknowledge that fact.
> > >We need to unite revolutionaries and progressives, correct each
>other and
> > >put the defeat of Shundler in November on the top of our agenda.
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >PS. I am still enjopying the debate and think that it is productive.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@h...>
> > > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:11:47 -0000
> > > >
> > > >I personally am not so excited by this discussion.  I'm beginning to
> > >think
> > > >it's rooted in some old and destructive traditions that relate to
>the
> > >Fight
> > > >Club in all of us.
> > > >
> > > >As far as the obstruction goes, I think anyone who was at the
>NJFO and
> > >NBPC
> > > >meetings following the election will agree that you not only made
>your
> > > >point
> > > >explicitly, Keith, but you persistedly repeated yourself without
> > > >encouraging
> > > >productive discussion that would have lead towards some practical
>action.
> > > >
> > > >With or without a majority standing, vocal advocates should
>always make
> > > >themselves clear, but you would have been a lot more effective if
>you had
> > > >focused your energy on organizing people (outside the meetings)
>into the
> > > >tasks you were suggesting, rather than speaking an inordinate
>amount at
> > >the
> > > >meetings.  When that happens we all lose precious time that could be
> > >spent
> > > >putting people into action or developing new ideas as a group in
> > >meetings.
> > > >That's why I call it 'obstruction'.
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 00:49:14 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >I am glad that this discussion is taking place, I think that it
>is much
> > > > >needed and will help us advance. It seems to me that we are
>finding
> > >some
> > > > >points of agreement.
> > > > >There are also some points of continued disagreement that I
>hope we can
> > > > >work
> > > > >on.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul wrote:
> > > > >"I never denied that the NPBC made mistakes, my main complaint
>is that
> > > >the
> > > > >most acute criticism has never made an attempt to assess our
> > >relationship
> > > > >with the working class in NB. It's been "they made alliances with
> > >greens
> > > > >and
> > > > >repubs and where is the quantified and qualitative analysis?"
>That's
> > >been
> > > > >followed by calls for quantitative and qualitative formal analysis.
> > > > > > >Yes, we need that."
> > > > >
> > > > >It is my opinion that camapign was led by students and former
>students
> > > >and
> > > > >had a primarily student base. At the same time it had significant
> > >support
> > > > >and sympathy among working people and elements of democratic middle
> > > > >classes.
> > > > >This is my one line assessment. But I also feel that working class
> > >slogan
> > > > >in
> > > > >November 2000 was beat bush demand, more from Gore. By not
>forwarding
> > >the
> > > > >slogan (because of the mentioned alliances) we alienated
>ourselves from
> > > > >working class people, during the course of the campaign and on
>election
> > > > >day.
> > > > >At the same time not advancing the slogan (beat bush...) we did not
> > > > >alienate
> > > > >ourselves from students who supported Nader but they became our
> > >strongest
> > > > >supporters outside of the activist core and many joined the
>activist
> > > >core.
> > > > >     So what I am saying is that we (the People's Campaign) made a
> > >choice
> > > > >(some more conscious of this than others) to accomadate and seek
> > >student
> > > > >support when it led to an alienated relationship with the working
> > >class.
> > > > >The
> > > > >opportunist aspect is that at least some of us believe
>(including Paul,
> > > > >judgeing from what he has written eldewhere) believe that the
>working
> > > >class
> > > > >is the only class that will fight relentlessly and thoughly for
> > >democracy
> > > > >and revolution. Also when you disconnect local activity from a
>more
> > >long
> > > > >term national vision/program you implicitly saying that "the
>movemnt is
> > > > >everything the goal is nothing".
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul continues:
> > > > >"It was definitely a mistake to ignore national issues.  Every
>party in
> > > >the
> > > > >united front is entitled to produce their own literature, no
>matter how
> > > > >ineffective or corny it may be. And revolutionaries and others with
> > > > >national
> > > > >stands should have taken advantage of that. Forces who sought to
> > >suppress
> > > > >such agitprop should be called out in violation of the rules."
> > > > >
> > > > >I agree with you, but I would go farther and say that we must
>have a
> > > >united
> > > > >front that has a level of unity that is beyond "defeat the
>machine" we
> > > > >don't
> > > > >all have to be revolutionaries, or want socialism, but we all
>have to
> > > >want
> > > > >democracy. For instance, I am not interested in organizational
>unity
> > >with
> > > > >people who do not want to stop Bret Shundler, simply because we
>don't
> > > >have
> > > > >time.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul wrote:
> > > > >"But to assert that all we had to do was put out the correct
>line on
> > > > >national issues and we would have won, is certainly fallacious
> > >thinking."
> > > > >
> > > > >I think that all we need is ea correct political line in
>general. Lokk
> > >at
> > > > >this way, what else could we have done. Could we have worked
>harder
> > >spent
> > > > >more hours etc. I don't think that is possible. I don't think
>anyone
> > > >saved
> > > > >anything for November 8.
> > > > >At work they say don't to work fast you have to work smart. We
>worked
> > >as
> > > > >fast as we could but we didn't work smart, that is we didn't
>have a
> > >good
> > > > >political line.
> > > > > >
> > > > >I agree in general with the points you made using Betleheim, I
>think
> > >that
> > > > >is
> > > > >exactly the point.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul ends with these questions.
> > > > >"This brings up the most vital question---what course do we take to
> > > > >organize
> > > > >working class people to lead the movement?  What are the
>implications
> > >for
> > > > >the United Front?  Can agitation and propaganda alone be the secret
> > > > >weapons?
> > > > >This questions are think are good ones., to organize the
>working class
> > >to
> > > > >lead we must fuse socialist consciousness or revolutionary
>ideology
> > >with
> > > > >the
> > > > >working calss movemnt. I think that Lenin's What is to be done
>adresses
> > > >the
> > > > >above questions. If you remember that Lenin was a meber of teh
>Russian
> > > > >Social-Democratic Labor Party which was in fact a united front of
> > >various
> > > > >revolutionary groupings and trends, both mensheviks and
>Bolsheviks. It
> > > > >didn't become the CPSUB until after October 1917.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul you conclude with questions/accusations which I am sure
>have been
> > > >made
> > > > >before but you are the firts to put these things to me
>directly. Hurray
> > > >for
> > > > >a move against liberalism. Paul Wrote:
> > > > >"What is the value of six months of criticisms that neglect to
>suggest
> > > > >better methods for accomplishing these tasks?"
> > > > >Actually Paul I have made alternative proposals from the
>beginning. I
> > > >just
> > > > >re-sent the proposal that I made at the Feb. 10th meeting where
>it was
> > > > >decided to work for the "community center democratic office
>space". I
> > >sd
> > > > >that we should remain involvde in elecrial politics at the
>local and
> > > > >statewide level, that we should put forward a national program
>or at
> > > >leats
> > > > >begin too.
> > > > >The accusation you make is one taht has been made often in the
>past six
> > > > >months I don't think taht it is based in reality. If you think
>that it
> > >is
> > > > >accurate I would appreciate it if you would elaborate so that I can
> > > >correct
> > > > >myself.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul asked:
> > > > >"What role has obstruction of meetings by forces on the Right
>and the
> > > >Left
> > > > >(Frank and Keith) played in our dormancy?"
> > > > >
> > > > >This is another one of those accustaions. If you mean by
>"obstruction"
> > > >that
> > > > >I refused to succomb to what I beleived (fund raising for the
>office
> > > > >community center democratic culture space) was a bad political
>line and
> > > > >that
> > > > >I continually raised my objections and criticism then by all
>means I am
> > > > >guilty. But practice has proven that it is not so easy to raise 15
> > >large
> > > >by
> > > > >telling rich folks that you have a good idea to get rid of them
>and you
> > > > >would like them to finance it. As far as I am concerned
>prcatice has
> > > > >vindicated my criticism of this line. We can't even pay a two
>hundred
> > > > >dollar
> > > > >phone bill.
> > > > >    A brief story might make the absurdity of the obstruction
>charge
> > > >clear.
> > > > >If we all decided to take a trip to Florida and the driver got
>on route
> > > >80
> > > > >west and everyone but myself agreed that it was a good idea and
>i kept
> > > > >trying to get the car onto route 95 south... am I an
>obstructionist.
> > > > >Actually the obstructionsit charge is just a revulsion against
> > >democracy.
> > > > >      Might I not just as easily say that the obstructionists
>are the
> > > > >supporters of the office/community center line who have
>obstructed our
> > > > >participation in electoral politics. Could it not be said that the
> > > > >obstructionists are those who refuse to look at our efforts
>criticially
> > > >and
> > > > >have sought to block all attempts to bring critical reflection
>upon the
> > > > >camapign.  The whole time the most reactionary section of the
> > >republican
> > > > >party has been preparing a coup and now we have to deal with this
> > >smiling
> > > > >neo-fascist buffoon Bret Shundler and our champion is this Geek
>mayor
> > > >from
> > > > >Wood bridge and we have done nothing but dream of raising money
>and
> > >avoid
> > > > >criticsm.
> > > > >    I think that the obstructionist charge is a crock...
> > > > >Could we all have jsut rallied around the office community
>cnetr fund
> > > > >raising line. sure, but we would not be any farther along on it
>than we
> > > >are
> > > > >now and we would have the added benifit of being clueless.
> > > > >I am glad that we are having this discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > >Keith
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> > > > > > >>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >>CC: nbpcmembers@y..., njfo@y...
> > > > > > >>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > > > > >>Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:45:58 -0000
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>I am glad that Paul took the time to respond to the U&S forum.
> > > > > > >>Unfortunately, he stepped back from the points that we
>agreed upon
> > > >at
> > > > > >that
> > > > > > >>meeting.
> > > > > > >>   One of the problems that has become apparent is that we
>don't
> > > >have
> > > > > > >>agreement on some basic terminology. First is the term
>"working
> > > >class
> > > > > > >>base".
> > > > > > >>Paul writes:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>"Matthew and others have contended that we didn?t reach the
> > >working
> > > > > > >>class with the NBPC.  I can?t think of many things farther
>from
> > >the
> > > > > >truth.
> > > > > > >>I?ve personally tried to convey this so many times..that
>we spoke
> > > >with
> > > > > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with
>community
> > > > >control,
> > > > > > >>down with the platform, down with democracy."
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul believes that a base of support is determined by who you
> > >canvas
> > > > >and
> > > > > > >>if
> > > > > > >>they like what you say.  This is not what
>Marxist-Leninists mean
> > >by
> > > > > >base.
> > > > > > >>We mean who is the leadership and who is the active body
>of the
> > > > > >campaign.
> > > > > > >>To
> > > > > > >>have a working class base you must have working class
>leadership
> > >and
> > > > > > >>working
> > > > > > >>class membership. To be scientific, to base ourselves on
>the facts
> > > >of
> > > > > >this
> > > > > > >>issue just count. Are there more students than workers in the
> > > > >campaign?
> > > > > > >>Just review the videotapes of the NBPC meetings and you
>will see
> > > >that
> > > > >it
> > > > > > >>is
> > > > > > >>made up of students and led by students or former
>students. This
> > >is
> > > >a
> > > > > > >>simple
> > > > > > >>fact.  You are confusing the idea of a base with sympathy.
> > > > > > >>     That there was working class sympathy no one is
>denying, this
> > > > > > >>sympathy
> > > > > > >>is what Paul experienced when he canvased. Some people who are
> > > >looking
> > > > > >for
> > > > > > >>excuses say that working people don't have time for
>meetings. This
> > > >is
> > > > > >not
> > > > > > >>true, they don't have time for meetings that they see as
>pointless
> > > >but
> > > > > > >>many
> > > > > > >>workers spend entire Sundays at church
> > > > > > >>and weeknights studying the bible. Many working peiople
>are very
> > > > >active
> > > > > >we
> > > > > > >>just have not combined and networked with them because we
>want
> > >them
> > > >to
> > > > > > >>join
> > > > > > >>us rather than joining them.
> > > > > > >>Further along Paul wrote:
> > > > > > >>"As a communist, I?ll say that our most important job is to
> > > >represent
> > > > > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible."
> > > > > > >>We also disagree here. As Communists our main task is to
>organize
> > > >the
> > > > > > >>working class so that they can seize power. As Lejin
>explained in
> > > >What
> > > > > >is
> > > > > > >>to
> > > > > > >>be done fuse socialist consiousness with the working class
> > >movemnt.
> > > > >The
> > > > > > >>middle class claiming to represent working class interests
>is a
> > >long
> > > > > > >>standing problem in the U.S. movement. See the movie Reds for
> > > >instance
> > > > > >or
> > > > > > >>better yet check out the history. Look at the split
>between Malcom
> > > >and
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > >>NOI. That is a class split. That is the working class
>struggling
> > > > >against
> > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > >>petty-bourgeois for leadership of the movement.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul continues:
> > > > > > >>"...at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other night,
>the NBPC
> > > >was
> > > > > > >>roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which
> > > >revolutionaries
> > > > > > >>sold
> > > > > > >>out their principles to form partnerships with pro-Bush
>forces."
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul, that is simply not true. The campaign was not
>dismissed and
> > > > > > >>certainly
> > > > > > >>not as adventurist (the mistakes were actually
>conservative not
> > > > > > >>adventurist).
> > > > > > >>What did happen is that we were able to come to an
>agreemnet as to
> > > > >some
> > > > > > >>specific facts. First, we agreed it was a mistke that the
>campaign
> > > >did
> > > > > >not
> > > > > > >>put forward any national agenda, program, or principles
>in any
> > > > > >consistent
> > > > > > >>way. Second there was no discussion of the presidential race
> > > > >whatsoever,
> > > > > > >>and
> > > > > > >>that such duiscussion was actively suppressed by the campaign
> > > >itself.
> > > > > >Paul
> > > > > > >>is here back peddaling because these are facts and if they are
> > > >agreed
> > > > > >upon
> > > > > > >>facts then they must be answered for. Why was there no
>discussion
> > >of
> > > > > > >>national politics? Answer that question and we will be getting
> > > > > >somewhere.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul makes this point when he writes:
> > > > > > >>"To dismiss the campaign on the grounds of two strategic
>alliances
> > > > >which
> > > > > > >>barely affected tactics is to ignore the largest question of
> > > > >progressive
> > > > > > >>and
> > > > > > >>revolutionary politics"
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul, the "two strategic alliances" you are referring to
>are with
> > > >the
> > > > > > >>Greens and Republicans.  I don't have any problem with those
> > > >alliances
> > > > > >so
> > > > > > >>long as they do not result in compromises of principle and
> > >political
> > > > > >line.
> > > > > > >>you say the alliances "barely affected tactics" are you
>making a
> > > >joke?
> > > > > > >>The
> > > > > > >>campaign did not attack the serial
> > > > > > >>killer from texas who has since stolen the presidency
>because we
> > >had
> > > > > > >>republican allies. The campaign did not make it clear that
>Nader's
> > > > > > >>candidacy
> > > > > > >>was aiding and abieting Bush 2 because we had allies in
>the Green
> > > > >party.
> > > > > > >>The
> > > > > > >>working class knows that. The working class line in
>November was
> > > >Beat
> > > > > > >>Bush!
> > > > > > >>Demand more from Gore!
> > > > > > >>The definition of opportunism, Paul,  is to make long term
> > > >sacrifices
> > > > > > >>for short term gains. The thinking behind the compromises is
> > > >textbook
> > > > > > >>opportunism. I don't know how elese to understand your
>statment
> > >that
> > > > >we
> > > > > > >>are
> > > > > > >>ignoring the "largest question of revolutionary politics".
>Paul,
> > > >what
> > > > >is
> > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > >>largest question of revolutionary politics and how big is
>it. To
> > > > >dismiss
> > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > >>national for the local and revolution for reform, and this is
> > > >precesly
> > > > > > >>what
> > > > > > >>was done, is opportunism.
> > > > > > >>We fight for democracy because we want socialsim, we fight for
> > > >reforms
> > > > > > >>because we want revolution and we fight locally because
>that is
> > >how
> > > >we
> > > > > > >>make
> > > > > > >>change nationally and internationlly. But to dismiss the ends
> > > >because
> > > > >it
> > > > > > >>is
> > > > > > >>easier to fight for democrcay without talking aout
>socialism and
> > >it
> > > >is
> > > > > > >>easier to fight for reforms without talking about
>revolution this
> > >is
> > > > > > >>social-democracy not marxism-leninism. Check out Lenin on
> > >Bernstein
> > > >if
> > > > > >you
> > > > > > >>are interested.
> > > > > > >>Paul wrote:
> > > > > > >>"If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it
> > >certainly
> > > > > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who
>contend
> > > >that
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > >>campaign didn?t have a working class base, that the
>campaign was
> > >not
> > > > > > >>revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without
>detailed
> > > > > > >>investigation."
> > > > > > >>This reminds me of the kindergarden addage "I'm rubber and
>your
> > >glue
> > > > > > >>whaever
> > > > > > >>you say bounces off me and sticks to you". To say something is
> > > > > >opportunism
> > > > > > >>is not to call it doo doo. It is a word with a meaning. If
>you are
> > > > >going
> > > > > > >>to
> > > > > > >>accuse someone of it you should at leats have an arguemnt. For
> > > > > >arguemenst
> > > > > > >>sake let's say that your chrage of opportunism stems from your
> > > >charge
> > > > > >that
> > > > > > >>we haven't conducted an investigation. This is a stretch
>but its
> > > >where
> > > > > >we
> > > > > > >>are I guess.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>   But what does this mean "Without detailed
>investigation" The
> > > >facts
> > > > > >are
> > > > > > >>that I worked on the campaign from January 22 until
>November 7. I
> > > > >don't
> > > > > > >>think that I took 2 days off from the campaign. I worked
>on it
> > >every
> > > > > > >>single
> > > > > > >>day. I quit my job to work on the campaign full time.  I
>did not
> > > >miss
> > > > > >one
> > > > > > >>steering committee meeting, I canvassed regularly, I met with
> > > >business
> > > > > > >>owners, church groups, student groups etc. I helped create
>most of
> > > >the
> > > > > > >>literature, I help to organize the first meeting and
>chaired many
> > >of
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >>following meetings. I was one of the three candidates.  I
>am not
> > > > >patting
> > > > > > >>my
> > > > > > >>back, I want to know what you mean by "detailed
>investigation".
> > >What
> > > > > >would
> > > > > > >>you like me to do to conduct a "detailed investigation?
>Should I
> > >sit
> > > > > >down
> > > > > > >>and interview you about your canvassing experience?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul continues:
> > > > > > >>"I don?t think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even
>listened to
> > >to
> > > > > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That?s not only unprinicipled, but
>opportunist
> > > > > >because
> > > > > > >>they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
>revolutionary
> > > > > >practice
> > > > > > >>of
> > > > > > >>the campaign.  This dissing of revolutionary practice is
> > >predicated
> > > >on
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > >>less-significant alliances
> > > > > > >>formed with Greens and Republicans."
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>If the "less-significant alliances with Republicnas and
>Greens"
> > >did
> > > > >not
> > > > > > >>determine the fact that the Campign had no National
>Program, No
> > > > >National
> > > > > > >>agenda, and was in fact an anti-democrat party united
>front which
> > > > > >included
> > > > > > >>republicans and at best very confused
> > > > > > >>greens, I would like to know what did. No discussion of the
> > > > >Presidential
> > > > > > >>election which was what was on every one's minds was firstly
> > > > >opportunist
> > > > > > >>(short term put ahead of long term) and secondly one of
>the main
> > > > >reasons
> > > > > > >>we
> > > > > > >>were defeated in November.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Again the charge of opportunism makes no sense. Paul
>claims U&S
> > >just
> > > > > >wants
> > > > > > >>to "dis the campaign" why? The majority of the U&S editors
>from
> > >put
> > > > > >blood
> > > > > > >>sweat and tears into the campaign, we all have a right to
>claim it
> > > >as
> > > > > >our
> > > > > > >>own. I am associated with its activities whether I like it
>or not,
> > > >my
> > > > > >name
> > > > > > >>appeared on all of its literature. It seems to me that you
>are
> > >just
> > > > >name
> > > > > > >>calling. Their is no basis to your charge of opportunism.
> > > > > > >>Paul, you have never put forward an analysis of why we
>lost the
> > > > > > >>election. Listening to you one would think that we won.
>You just
> > > > > > >>continually
> > > > > > >>talk about how much people liked your rap when you
>canvased them.
> > >I
> > > >do
> > > > > >not
> > > > > > >>doubt you are a fine canvaser but that is not the point.
> > > > > > >>Paul wrote:
> > > > > > >>"It?s precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current
> > >trends
> > > >in
> > > > > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem
>credible
> > >in
> > > > >this
> > > > > > >>ongoing debate."
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>What does this mean Paul.?  What are the  "current trends in
> > > > > > >>revolutionary practice" of which I am ignorant. Is there a
>new
> > >plan
> > > >to
> > > > > > >>raise
> > > > > > >>a million dollars from a great man of wealth who likes
>your ideas?
> > > >Or
> > > > > >are
> > > > > > >>we
> > > > > > >>just well on our way to raising the 15 grand necessary for the
> > > > >"People's
> > > > > > >>democratic community center office
> > > > > > >>space". Or is there just a "new" list serve without all those
> > >pesky
> > > > >msgs
> > > > > > >>which interfere with "work".
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>As to the final point, Paul wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>"Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our
>practice?"
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>This statement actually sheds light on the problem you are
>having.
> > > >You
> > > > > > >>have practice and theory seperated into two compartments.
>Practice
> > > >and
> > > > > > >>theory are not two different things. To talk about practice is
> > > >theory,
> > > > > >to
> > > > > > >>think about practice is theory.  The only time theory is
>absent is
> > > > >when
> > > > > > >>you
> > > > > > >>get into what Zen Buddhist call samdhi, or sports
>enthusiats refer
> > > >to
> > > > >as
> > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > >>"zone" . Theory is the crytalization of practical
>experience. To
> > > > >insist
> > > > > >on
> > > > > > >>prcatice without theory as many have or just do "work" is the
> > > >essence
> > > > >of
> > > > > > >>Social-Democracy. practice without theory has nothing to
>do with
> > > > > > >>revolution.
> > > > > > >>Nor does theory without prcatice.
> > > > > > >>So, how do we evaluate practice? with theory.
> > > > > > >>Social Democrats say "the movement is everything, the goal is
> > > >nothing"
> > > > > > >>That is what Bernstien sd. And it is that same idea that is
> > > >reflected
> > > > > >when
> > > > > > >>we hear the mantra "do work" repeated without discussion
>of what
> > > >work
> > > > > >for
> > > > > > >>what purpose to what ends.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Perhaps we would get farther if Paul and others who don't
>believe
> > > >any
> > > > > > >>mistakes weremade explain why we lost? (that would be a
> > >theoretical
> > > > >act)
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>I would propose the following questions to "evelauate our
> > >practice"
> > > > > > >>1. Why did we lose?
> > > > > > >>2. did we have a national program?
> > > > > > >>3. did we discuss the presidential election?
> > > > > > >>4. did we promote the slogan Beat Bush! Demand more from
>Gore,
> > >which
> > > > >all
> > > > > > >>revolutionaries agreed was the correct slogan
> > > > > > >>5. Why were people funneled into a pipe dream "office space"
> > >project
> > > > > >after
> > > > > > >>the November elections instead of remaining involved in
>electoral
> > > > > > >>politics?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>I don't propose thes as rhetorical questions if we can't
>agree on
> > > > > >answers
> > > > > > >>to
> > > > > > >>these questions we will never be able to achieve a unified
> > >analysis.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Keith
> > > > > >
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > >>nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >_________________________________________________________________
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >_________________________________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1729
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-29 13:26:12
Subject:Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
Message:

I just want to respond to a few of Keith's points.
> > >


> > >
KJ:      As to the obstruction charge; I think that you are refusing
> to look
> > >at
> > >it dialectically. First, you say I should have orgainzed people to
> do the
> > >things that I  suggested. Actually, Paul, that's exactly what I did.
> > >Revolutionaries in New Brunswick and their allies in other cities
> have put
> > >out two issues of Unity & Struggle as well as a pamphlet by
Baraka and
> > >AmiriBaraka.com now exists.

PM:  Keith, I was talking about organizing people to the meeting who
share your view.  If you hadn't spent so much time spouting your views
other people would have had time to voice theirs.   You took my
comment out of time context and applied it to the present.  You
repeatedly take singular instances, abstracted from their history, and
call them "examples" of the trend which arose in your mind from other
selfsame abstracted moments.   This is dangerous , fight club
methodology.  I oppose it unconditionally.  Paul


KJ:     It is my line and my comrdaes in U&S that these are the most
> pressing
> > >tasks of revolutionaries; in two words agitation and propaganda. I
> say you
> > >refuse to look at it dialectically because you seem to think that
> you and
> > >whoever you are organizing with have cornered the market on
> revolutionary
> > >activity, that nothing else exists.

PM: When did I ever say that? Why WOULD I say that? I don't like the
tone of your post.  I think you're bringing in outside suppositions
and misapplying them to my writings.  It sounds like you've assessed
where I'm at and want to apply that to what I write.  I think your
assessment and my writing are two different and discrete entities.
When you misapply one to the other you're not listening and you're
implying that I either don't know what I'm saying or that I have
hidden agendas.  I find that disingenuous and manipulative. And it's
not how you spoke to me on the phone last night.  So why don't you
just tell me what you think is my political issue.

PM:   I obviously support agitation and propaganda, but how does the
cultural revolution fit into that? How does creating organization fit
into that?

KJ:     Paul your masg. confuses me because you say struggle over
> political
> > >line in meetings is a waste of "precious time" that could be spent
> "putting
> > >people into action". Paul at best you seem to believe that "doing
> work" or
> > >practice is good in itself. I don't believe that.

PM:  I never said that , either.  If I did, quote me.  I did say "As
far as the obstruction goes, I think anyone who was at the NJFO and
> > >NBPC meetings following the election will agree that you not only
made your point explicitly, Keith, but you persistedly repeated
yourself without encouraging productive discussion that would have
lead towards some practical action."  That means "you didn't shut up
after you made your point abundantly clear so that other people could
talk."  I didnt say we couldn't have a discussion or struggle over
what you said. that would have been difficult because you have
literally tried to respond to almost every comment made, turning a
meeting of five, fifteen or thirty into a back and forth with Keith.


KJ:  Before I get
> "put into
> > >action",  I want to know what the action is and what purpose it
> serves. I
> > >don't do "work" for work's sake.

PM: No one ever said that. You're getting carried away because you've
got a static idea of how my trend operates. At this point, you should
openly state what you think my trend is about instead of spending any
more time misapplying your idea and misquoting and misattributing
statements to me.



 The only way to advance on the local
> level is to
> > >cease acting unilaterally. And to begin to struggle tirelessly for
> unity of
> > >ALL progressive, revolutionary democartic forces and unite with the
> working
> > >people and democartic middle classes of New Brunswick. Especially
their
> > >existing organziations. Another "join us" effort or worse "don't
> join us"
> > >effort will fail.
> > >      I think that fundraising for an office community democracy
> people's
> > >center space is an obstruction to revolutionary political work.
Also I
> > >think
> > >that that line (office space  blah blah) is dead in the water. And
> more
> > >that
> > >those who support it refuse to ackowledge that it is a failure,
and an
> > >incorrect line in PRACTICE as well as in theory the less we will be
> able to
> > >move forward.. Mao explains that the internal contradictions of a
> thing or
> > >process are primary over the external. I raise that point because I
> am sure
> > >that in addition to the accusation of obstructionism, we are also
being
> > >blamed for the failure of this political line.
> > >      Paul, the accusatuion of "obstructionism" in the local
> movement is
> > >the
> > >catchall that has been used histroically to force splits and
> expulsions. It
> > >is leveled against anyone who disagrees and has the courage to
> stand by and
> > >struggle for their line. As you may or may not know Cliff was
> expelled from
> > >NJFO in 1996 because he oppossed the ultra-left formulation of
> "Maoism" as
> > >well as the Hungerford's line of Boycatting the presidentail
> election. He
> > >was a minority of one. Evry excuse was sought to get rid of his
> > >"obstructionism". I can remember one meeting were he asked
> repeatedly "what
> > >is Maoism". This enraged the froup because on the one hand we were
> > >"Maoists"
> > >and on the other we didn't know what it was; in that position how
> can you
> > >answer the question. There is an answer expulsion. Unfortunatelt
Cliff
> > >provided the pret-text by assaulting women in the organiztion. But
> the fact
> > >remains that he was expelled because if his line (which in that
> case was
> > >correct) the reasons given for his expulsion were a disingenious
> pre-text.
> > >      Sorry for the stroll down memory lane but these problmes have
> not
> > >been
> > >sorted out and thus they remain. Paul and anyone else, it is my
> line that
> > >the obstruction is the office space line and that it has failed and
> that
> > >there is a persitent refusal to acknowledge that fact.
> > >We need to unite revolutionaries and progressives, correct each
> other and
> > >put the defeat of Shundler in November on the top of our agenda.
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >PS. I am still enjopying the debate and think that it is productive.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@h...>
> > > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:11:47 -0000
> > > >
> > > >I personally am not so excited by this discussion.  I'm
beginning to
> > >think
> > > >it's rooted in some old and destructive traditions that relate to
> the
> > >Fight
> > > >Club in all of us.
> > > >
> > > >As far as the obstruction goes, I think anyone who was at the
> NJFO and
> > >NBPC
> > > >meetings following the election will agree that you not only made
> your
> > > >point
> > > >explicitly, Keith, but you persistedly repeated yourself without
> > > >encouraging
> > > >productive discussion that would have lead towards some practical
> action.
> > > >
> > > >With or without a majority standing, vocal advocates should
> always make
> > > >themselves clear, but you would have been a lot more effective if
> you had
> > > >focused your energy on organizing people (outside the meetings)
> into the
> > > >tasks you were suggesting, rather than speaking an inordinate
> amount at
> > >the
> > > >meetings.  When that happens we all lose precious time that
could be
> > >spent
> > > >putting people into action or developing new ideas as a group in
> > >meetings.
> > > >That's why I call it 'obstruction'.
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 00:49:14 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >I am glad that this discussion is taking place, I think that it
> is much
> > > > >needed and will help us advance. It seems to me that we are
> finding
> > >some
> > > > >points of agreement.
> > > > >There are also some points of continued disagreement that I
> hope we can
> > > > >work
> > > > >on.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul wrote:
> > > > >"I never denied that the NPBC made mistakes, my main complaint
> is that
> > > >the
> > > > >most acute criticism has never made an attempt to assess our
> > >relationship
> > > > >with the working class in NB. It's been "they made alliances with
> > >greens
> > > > >and
> > > > >repubs and where is the quantified and qualitative analysis?"
> That's
> > >been
> > > > >followed by calls for quantitative and qualitative formal
analysis.
> > > > > > >Yes, we need that."
> > > > >
> > > > >It is my opinion that camapign was led by students and former
> students
> > > >and
> > > > >had a primarily student base. At the same time it had significant
> > >support
> > > > >and sympathy among working people and elements of democratic
middle
> > > > >classes.
> > > > >This is my one line assessment. But I also feel that working
class
> > >slogan
> > > > >in
> > > > >November 2000 was beat bush demand, more from Gore. By not
> forwarding
> > >the
> > > > >slogan (because of the mentioned alliances) we alienated
> ourselves from
> > > > >working class people, during the course of the campaign and on
> election
> > > > >day.
> > > > >At the same time not advancing the slogan (beat bush...) we
did not
> > > > >alienate
> > > > >ourselves from students who supported Nader but they became our
> > >strongest
> > > > >supporters outside of the activist core and many joined the
> activist
> > > >core.
> > > > >     So what I am saying is that we (the People's Campaign)
made a
> > >choice
> > > > >(some more conscious of this than others) to accomadate and seek
> > >student
> > > > >support when it led to an alienated relationship with the working
> > >class.
> > > > >The
> > > > >opportunist aspect is that at least some of us believe
> (including Paul,
> > > > >judgeing from what he has written eldewhere) believe that the
> working
> > > >class
> > > > >is the only class that will fight relentlessly and thoughly for
> > >democracy
> > > > >and revolution. Also when you disconnect local activity from a
> more
> > >long
> > > > >term national vision/program you implicitly saying that "the
> movemnt is
> > > > >everything the goal is nothing".
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul continues:
> > > > >"It was definitely a mistake to ignore national issues.  Every
> party in
> > > >the
> > > > >united front is entitled to produce their own literature, no
> matter how
> > > > >ineffective or corny it may be. And revolutionaries and
others with
> > > > >national
> > > > >stands should have taken advantage of that. Forces who sought to
> > >suppress
> > > > >such agitprop should be called out in violation of the rules."
> > > > >
> > > > >I agree with you, but I would go farther and say that we must
> have a
> > > >united
> > > > >front that has a level of unity that is beyond "defeat the
> machine" we
> > > > >don't
> > > > >all have to be revolutionaries, or want socialism, but we all
> have to
> > > >want
> > > > >democracy. For instance, I am not interested in organizational
> unity
> > >with
> > > > >people who do not want to stop Bret Shundler, simply because we
> don't
> > > >have
> > > > >time.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul wrote:
> > > > >"But to assert that all we had to do was put out the correct
> line on
> > > > >national issues and we would have won, is certainly fallacious
> > >thinking."
> > > > >
> > > > >I think that all we need is ea correct political line in
> general. Lokk
> > >at
> > > > >this way, what else could we have done. Could we have worked
> harder
> > >spent
> > > > >more hours etc. I don't think that is possible. I don't think
> anyone
> > > >saved
> > > > >anything for November 8.
> > > > >At work they say don't to work fast you have to work smart. We
> worked
> > >as
> > > > >fast as we could but we didn't work smart, that is we didn't
> have a
> > >good
> > > > >political line.
> > > > > >
> > > > >I agree in general with the points you made using Betleheim, I
> think
> > >that
> > > > >is
> > > > >exactly the point.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul ends with these questions.
> > > > >"This brings up the most vital question---what course do we
take to
> > > > >organize
> > > > >working class people to lead the movement?  What are the
> implications
> > >for
> > > > >the United Front?  Can agitation and propaganda alone be the
secret
> > > > >weapons?
> > > > >This questions are think are good ones., to organize the
> working class
> > >to
> > > > >lead we must fuse socialist consciousness or revolutionary
> ideology
> > >with
> > > > >the
> > > > >working calss movemnt. I think that Lenin's What is to be done
> adresses
> > > >the
> > > > >above questions. If you remember that Lenin was a meber of teh
> Russian
> > > > >Social-Democratic Labor Party which was in fact a united front of
> > >various
> > > > >revolutionary groupings and trends, both mensheviks and
> Bolsheviks. It
> > > > >didn't become the CPSUB until after October 1917.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul you conclude with questions/accusations which I am sure
> have been
> > > >made
> > > > >before but you are the firts to put these things to me
> directly. Hurray
> > > >for
> > > > >a move against liberalism. Paul Wrote:
> > > > >"What is the value of six months of criticisms that neglect to
> suggest
> > > > >better methods for accomplishing these tasks?"
> > > > >Actually Paul I have made alternative proposals from the
> beginning. I
> > > >just
> > > > >re-sent the proposal that I made at the Feb. 10th meeting where
> it was
> > > > >decided to work for the "community center democratic office
> space". I
> > >sd
> > > > >that we should remain involvde in elecrial politics at the
> local and
> > > > >statewide level, that we should put forward a national program
> or at
> > > >leats
> > > > >begin too.
> > > > >The accusation you make is one taht has been made often in the
> past six
> > > > >months I don't think taht it is based in reality. If you think
> that it
> > >is
> > > > >accurate I would appreciate it if you would elaborate so that
I can
> > > >correct
> > > > >myself.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul asked:
> > > > >"What role has obstruction of meetings by forces on the Right
> and the
> > > >Left
> > > > >(Frank and Keith) played in our dormancy?"
> > > > >
> > > > >This is another one of those accustaions. If you mean by
> "obstruction"
> > > >that
> > > > >I refused to succomb to what I beleived (fund raising for the
> office
> > > > >community center democratic culture space) was a bad political
> line and
> > > > >that
> > > > >I continually raised my objections and criticism then by all
> means I am
> > > > >guilty. But practice has proven that it is not so easy to
raise 15
> > >large
> > > >by
> > > > >telling rich folks that you have a good idea to get rid of them
> and you
> > > > >would like them to finance it. As far as I am concerned
> prcatice has
> > > > >vindicated my criticism of this line. We can't even pay a two
> hundred
> > > > >dollar
> > > > >phone bill.
> > > > >    A brief story might make the absurdity of the obstruction
> charge
> > > >clear.
> > > > >If we all decided to take a trip to Florida and the driver got
> on route
> > > >80
> > > > >west and everyone but myself agreed that it was a good idea and
> i kept
> > > > >trying to get the car onto route 95 south... am I an
> obstructionist.
> > > > >Actually the obstructionsit charge is just a revulsion against
> > >democracy.
> > > > >      Might I not just as easily say that the obstructionists
> are the
> > > > >supporters of the office/community center line who have
> obstructed our
> > > > >participation in electoral politics. Could it not be said
that the
> > > > >obstructionists are those who refuse to look at our efforts
> criticially
> > > >and
> > > > >have sought to block all attempts to bring critical reflection
> upon the
> > > > >camapign.  The whole time the most reactionary section of the
> > >republican
> > > > >party has been preparing a coup and now we have to deal with this
> > >smiling
> > > > >neo-fascist buffoon Bret Shundler and our champion is this Geek
> mayor
> > > >from
> > > > >Wood bridge and we have done nothing but dream of raising money
> and
> > >avoid
> > > > >criticsm.
> > > > >    I think that the obstructionist charge is a crock...
> > > > >Could we all have jsut rallied around the office community
> cnetr fund
> > > > >raising line. sure, but we would not be any farther along on it
> than we
> > > >are
> > > > >now and we would have the added benifit of being clueless.
> > > > >I am glad that we are having this discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > >Keith
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> > > > > > >>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >>CC: nbpcmembers@y..., njfo@y...
> > > > > > >>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > > > > >>Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:45:58 -0000
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>I am glad that Paul took the time to respond to the U&S
forum.
> > > > > > >>Unfortunately, he stepped back from the points that we
> agreed upon
> > > >at
> > > > > >that
> > > > > > >>meeting.
> > > > > > >>   One of the problems that has become apparent is that we
> don't
> > > >have
> > > > > > >>agreement on some basic terminology. First is the term
> "working
> > > >class
> > > > > > >>base".
> > > > > > >>Paul writes:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>"Matthew and others have contended that we didn?t reach the
> > >working
> > > > > > >>class with the NBPC.  I can?t think of many things farther
> from
> > >the
> > > > > >truth.
> > > > > > >>I?ve personally tried to convey this so many times..that
> we spoke
> > > >with
> > > > > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with
> community
> > > > >control,
> > > > > > >>down with the platform, down with democracy."
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul believes that a base of support is determined by
who you
> > >canvas
> > > > >and
> > > > > > >>if
> > > > > > >>they like what you say.  This is not what
> Marxist-Leninists mean
> > >by
> > > > > >base.
> > > > > > >>We mean who is the leadership and who is the active body
> of the
> > > > > >campaign.
> > > > > > >>To
> > > > > > >>have a working class base you must have working class
> leadership
> > >and
> > > > > > >>working
> > > > > > >>class membership. To be scientific, to base ourselves on
> the facts
> > > >of
> > > > > >this
> > > > > > >>issue just count. Are there more students than workers
in the
> > > > >campaign?
> > > > > > >>Just review the videotapes of the NBPC meetings and you
> will see
> > > >that
> > > > >it
> > > > > > >>is
> > > > > > >>made up of students and led by students or former
> students. This
> > >is
> > > >a
> > > > > > >>simple
> > > > > > >>fact.  You are confusing the idea of a base with sympathy.
> > > > > > >>     That there was working class sympathy no one is
> denying, this
> > > > > > >>sympathy
> > > > > > >>is what Paul experienced when he canvased. Some people
who are
> > > >looking
> > > > > >for
> > > > > > >>excuses say that working people don't have time for
> meetings. This
> > > >is
> > > > > >not
> > > > > > >>true, they don't have time for meetings that they see as
> pointless
> > > >but
> > > > > > >>many
> > > > > > >>workers spend entire Sundays at church
> > > > > > >>and weeknights studying the bible. Many working peiople
> are very
> > > > >active
> > > > > >we
> > > > > > >>just have not combined and networked with them because we
> want
> > >them
> > > >to
> > > > > > >>join
> > > > > > >>us rather than joining them.
> > > > > > >>Further along Paul wrote:
> > > > > > >>"As a communist, I?ll say that our most important job is to
> > > >represent
> > > > > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible."
> > > > > > >>We also disagree here. As Communists our main task is to
> organize
> > > >the
> > > > > > >>working class so that they can seize power. As Lejin
> explained in
> > > >What
> > > > > >is
> > > > > > >>to
> > > > > > >>be done fuse socialist consiousness with the working class
> > >movemnt.
> > > > >The
> > > > > > >>middle class claiming to represent working class interests
> is a
> > >long
> > > > > > >>standing problem in the U.S. movement. See the movie
Reds for
> > > >instance
> > > > > >or
> > > > > > >>better yet check out the history. Look at the split
> between Malcom
> > > >and
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > >>NOI. That is a class split. That is the working class
> struggling
> > > > >against
> > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > >>petty-bourgeois for leadership of the movement.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul continues:
> > > > > > >>"...at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other night,
> the NBPC
> > > >was
> > > > > > >>roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which
> > > >revolutionaries
> > > > > > >>sold
> > > > > > >>out their principles to form partnerships with pro-Bush
> forces."
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul, that is simply not true. The campaign was not
> dismissed and
> > > > > > >>certainly
> > > > > > >>not as adventurist (the mistakes were actually
> conservative not
> > > > > > >>adventurist).
> > > > > > >>What did happen is that we were able to come to an
> agreemnet as to
> > > > >some
> > > > > > >>specific facts. First, we agreed it was a mistke that the
> campaign
> > > >did
> > > > > >not
> > > > > > >>put forward any national agenda, program, or principles
> in any
> > > > > >consistent
> > > > > > >>way. Second there was no discussion of the presidential race
> > > > >whatsoever,
> > > > > > >>and
> > > > > > >>that such duiscussion was actively suppressed by the
campaign
> > > >itself.
> > > > > >Paul
> > > > > > >>is here back peddaling because these are facts and if
they are
> > > >agreed
> > > > > >upon
> > > > > > >>facts then they must be answered for. Why was there no
> discussion
> > >of
> > > > > > >>national politics? Answer that question and we will be
getting
> > > > > >somewhere.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul makes this point when he writes:
> > > > > > >>"To dismiss the campaign on the grounds of two strategic
> alliances
> > > > >which
> > > > > > >>barely affected tactics is to ignore the largest question of
> > > > >progressive
> > > > > > >>and
> > > > > > >>revolutionary politics"
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul, the "two strategic alliances" you are referring to
> are with
> > > >the
> > > > > > >>Greens and Republicans.  I don't have any problem with those
> > > >alliances
> > > > > >so
> > > > > > >>long as they do not result in compromises of principle and
> > >political
> > > > > >line.
> > > > > > >>you say the alliances "barely affected tactics" are you
> making a
> > > >joke?
> > > > > > >>The
> > > > > > >>campaign did not attack the serial
> > > > > > >>killer from texas who has since stolen the presidency
> because we
> > >had
> > > > > > >>republican allies. The campaign did not make it clear that
> Nader's
> > > > > > >>candidacy
> > > > > > >>was aiding and abieting Bush 2 because we had allies in
> the Green
> > > > >party.
> > > > > > >>The
> > > > > > >>working class knows that. The working class line in
> November was
> > > >Beat
> > > > > > >>Bush!
> > > > > > >>Demand more from Gore!
> > > > > > >>The definition of opportunism, Paul,  is to make long term
> > > >sacrifices
> > > > > > >>for short term gains. The thinking behind the compromises is
> > > >textbook
> > > > > > >>opportunism. I don't know how elese to understand your
> statment
> > >that
> > > > >we
> > > > > > >>are
> > > > > > >>ignoring the "largest question of revolutionary politics".
> Paul,
> > > >what
> > > > >is
> > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > >>largest question of revolutionary politics and how big is
> it. To
> > > > >dismiss
> > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > >>national for the local and revolution for reform, and
this is
> > > >precesly
> > > > > > >>what
> > > > > > >>was done, is opportunism.
> > > > > > >>We fight for democracy because we want socialsim, we
fight for
> > > >reforms
> > > > > > >>because we want revolution and we fight locally because
> that is
> > >how
> > > >we
> > > > > > >>make
> > > > > > >>change nationally and internationlly. But to dismiss the
ends
> > > >because
> > > > >it
> > > > > > >>is
> > > > > > >>easier to fight for democrcay without talking aout
> socialism and
> > >it
> > > >is
> > > > > > >>easier to fight for reforms without talking about
> revolution this
> > >is
> > > > > > >>social-democracy not marxism-leninism. Check out Lenin on
> > >Bernstein
> > > >if
> > > > > >you
> > > > > > >>are interested.
> > > > > > >>Paul wrote:
> > > > > > >>"If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it
> > >certainly
> > > > > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who
> contend
> > > >that
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > >>campaign didn?t have a working class base, that the
> campaign was
> > >not
> > > > > > >>revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without
> detailed
> > > > > > >>investigation."
> > > > > > >>This reminds me of the kindergarden addage "I'm rubber and
> your
> > >glue
> > > > > > >>whaever
> > > > > > >>you say bounces off me and sticks to you". To say
something is
> > > > > >opportunism
> > > > > > >>is not to call it doo doo. It is a word with a meaning. If
> you are
> > > > >going
> > > > > > >>to
> > > > > > >>accuse someone of it you should at leats have an
arguemnt. For
> > > > > >arguemenst
> > > > > > >>sake let's say that your chrage of opportunism stems
from your
> > > >charge
> > > > > >that
> > > > > > >>we haven't conducted an investigation. This is a stretch
> but its
> > > >where
> > > > > >we
> > > > > > >>are I guess.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>   But what does this mean "Without detailed
> investigation" The
> > > >facts
> > > > > >are
> > > > > > >>that I worked on the campaign from January 22 until
> November 7. I
> > > > >don't
> > > > > > >>think that I took 2 days off from the campaign. I worked
> on it
> > >every
> > > > > > >>single
> > > > > > >>day. I quit my job to work on the campaign full time.  I
> did not
> > > >miss
> > > > > >one
> > > > > > >>steering committee meeting, I canvassed regularly, I met
with
> > > >business
> > > > > > >>owners, church groups, student groups etc. I helped create
> most of
> > > >the
> > > > > > >>literature, I help to organize the first meeting and
> chaired many
> > >of
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >>following meetings. I was one of the three candidates.  I
> am not
> > > > >patting
> > > > > > >>my
> > > > > > >>back, I want to know what you mean by "detailed
> investigation".
> > >What
> > > > > >would
> > > > > > >>you like me to do to conduct a "detailed investigation?
> Should I
> > >sit
> > > > > >down
> > > > > > >>and interview you about your canvassing experience?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul continues:
> > > > > > >>"I don?t think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even
> listened to
> > >to
> > > > > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That?s not only unprinicipled, but
> opportunist
> > > > > >because
> > > > > > >>they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
> revolutionary
> > > > > >practice
> > > > > > >>of
> > > > > > >>the campaign.  This dissing of revolutionary practice is
> > >predicated
> > > >on
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > >>less-significant alliances
> > > > > > >>formed with Greens and Republicans."
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>If the "less-significant alliances with Republicnas and
> Greens"
> > >did
> > > > >not
> > > > > > >>determine the fact that the Campign had no National
> Program, No
> > > > >National
> > > > > > >>agenda, and was in fact an anti-democrat party united
> front which
> > > > > >included
> > > > > > >>republicans and at best very confused
> > > > > > >>greens, I would like to know what did. No discussion of the
> > > > >Presidential
> > > > > > >>election which was what was on every one's minds was firstly
> > > > >opportunist
> > > > > > >>(short term put ahead of long term) and secondly one of
> the main
> > > > >reasons
> > > > > > >>we
> > > > > > >>were defeated in November.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Again the charge of opportunism makes no sense. Paul
> claims U&S
> > >just
> > > > > >wants
> > > > > > >>to "dis the campaign" why? The majority of the U&S editors
> from
> > >put
> > > > > >blood
> > > > > > >>sweat and tears into the campaign, we all have a right to
> claim it
> > > >as
> > > > > >our
> > > > > > >>own. I am associated with its activities whether I like it
> or not,
> > > >my
> > > > > >name
> > > > > > >>appeared on all of its literature. It seems to me that you
> are
> > >just
> > > > >name
> > > > > > >>calling. Their is no basis to your charge of opportunism.
> > > > > > >>Paul, you have never put forward an analysis of why we
> lost the
> > > > > > >>election. Listening to you one would think that we won.
> You just
> > > > > > >>continually
> > > > > > >>talk about how much people liked your rap when you
> canvased them.
> > >I
> > > >do
> > > > > >not
> > > > > > >>doubt you are a fine canvaser but that is not the point.
> > > > > > >>Paul wrote:
> > > > > > >>"It?s precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current
> > >trends
> > > >in
> > > > > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem
> credible
> > >in
> > > > >this
> > > > > > >>ongoing debate."
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>What does this mean Paul.?  What are the  "current trends in
> > > > > > >>revolutionary practice" of which I am ignorant. Is there a
> new
> > >plan
> > > >to
> > > > > > >>raise
> > > > > > >>a million dollars from a great man of wealth who likes
> your ideas?
> > > >Or
> > > > > >are
> > > > > > >>we
> > > > > > >>just well on our way to raising the 15 grand necessary
for the
> > > > >"People's
> > > > > > >>democratic community center office
> > > > > > >>space". Or is there just a "new" list serve without all
those
> > >pesky
> > > > >msgs
> > > > > > >>which interfere with "work".
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>As to the final point, Paul wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>"Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our
> practice?"
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>This statement actually sheds light on the problem you are
> having.
> > > >You
> > > > > > >>have practice and theory seperated into two compartments.
> Practice
> > > >and
> > > > > > >>theory are not two different things. To talk about
practice is
> > > >theory,
> > > > > >to
> > > > > > >>think about practice is theory.  The only time theory is
> absent is
> > > > >when
> > > > > > >>you
> > > > > > >>get into what Zen Buddhist call samdhi, or sports
> enthusiats refer
> > > >to
> > > > >as
> > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > >>"zone" . Theory is the crytalization of practical
> experience. To
> > > > >insist
> > > > > >on
> > > > > > >>prcatice without theory as many have or just do "work"
is the
> > > >essence
> > > > >of
> > > > > > >>Social-Democracy. practice without theory has nothing to
> do with
> > > > > > >>revolution.
> > > > > > >>Nor does theory without prcatice.
> > > > > > >>So, how do we evaluate practice? with theory.
> > > > > > >>Social Democrats say "the movement is everything, the
goal is
> > > >nothing"
> > > > > > >>That is what Bernstien sd. And it is that same idea that is
> > > >reflected
> > > > > >when
> > > > > > >>we hear the mantra "do work" repeated without discussion
> of what
> > > >work
> > > > > >for
> > > > > > >>what purpose to what ends.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Perhaps we would get farther if Paul and others who don't
> believe
> > > >any
> > > > > > >>mistakes weremade explain why we lost? (that would be a
> > >theoretical
> > > > >act)
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>I would propose the following questions to "evelauate our
> > >practice"
> > > > > > >>1. Why did we lose?
> > > > > > >>2. did we have a national program?
> > > > > > >>3. did we discuss the presidential election?
> > > > > > >>4. did we promote the slogan Beat Bush! Demand more from
> Gore,
> > >which
> > > > >all
> > > > > > >>revolutionaries agreed was the correct slogan
> > > > > > >>5. Why were people funneled into a pipe dream "office space"
> > >project
> > > > > >after
> > > > > > >>the November elections instead of remaining involved in
> electoral
> > > > > > >>politics?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>I don't propose thes as rhetorical questions if we can't
> agree on
> > > > > >answers
> > > > > > >>to
> > > > > > >>these questions we will never be able to achieve a unified
> > >analysis.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Keith
> > > > > >
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > >>nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
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> > > > >
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> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1730
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-29 13:34:22
Subject:[nbpc] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
Message:

that's an interesting assessment.  Reread and find out I'm not blaming
the organizers.  Blame is this thing which the far Left uses to
flatten three dimensional historically set moments into
one-dimensional pledge paddles with "you're not good enough" inscribed
in them.

Do you need a national line to be concerned about local issues? To
take this to a logical end, do you suggest that inactive working
people in New Brusnwick only need college-educated organizers to give
them a national line for them to spring into action?  And check again,
we won over most of the Greens to revolutionary politics- most didn't
even campaign for Nader for one minute on election day...but I guess
they're not revolutionary allies becuase they're not from the hood.

Paul

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@h...> wrote:
> paul,
>
> "So instead of calling the office space line the principal cause of us
> >falling flat, why don't we ask why the NBPC didn't have more
> >organizers ready to initiate work right after the campaign?  That goes
> >back to another question: What could we do better when we organize so
> >that the people we work with begin to take initiative in political
> >work themselves?  So that people become organizers instead of
> >task-doers, or activists."
>
> in order to get the office space, the NBPC expelled revolutionaries,
allied
> with republicans and greens over NB youth, and forfeited the beat
bush, nix
> nader national line.  i don't think that you can blame the people
who joined
> during the campaign for it's lack of activity now. if no clear
position was
> put out to them of who are our allies, who are our enemies, along
with the
> absence of a national position, who and what are these people
supposed to be
> organizing for?
>
>
> >From: shorepaulie@h...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> >Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:58:40 -0000
> >
> >I want to address this from a different perspective than usual.  The
> >office space things failed, yes. I said it.  I don't think the real
> >problem is that it failed because it's generally a bad political line.
> >
> >If we had robust campaigns during the winter, we could have put some
> >people into office renting, or whatever and that might have been
> >critical.   But we didn't have other things going on.
> >
> >So instead of calling the office space line the principal cause of us
> >falling flat, why don't we ask why the NBPC didn't have more
> >organizers ready to initiate work right after the campaign?  That goes
> >back to another question: What could we do better when we organize so
> >that the people we work with begin to take initiative in political
> >work themselves?  So that people become organizers instead of
> >task-doers, or activists.
> >
> >That is, how do people change their relationship to real democratic
> >politics?  How do we change these relations?  That is, change our
> >relations with our network so that our network begins to change its
> >relations with its people.
> >
> >I think we're better off asking questions like this, instead of
> >pinning longterm success and failure to singular decisions while
> >years' long processes are really the causal factors behind our
> >successs and failures with the NBPC last fall, for instance.
> >
> >I think that approach is more healthy for the movement, people
> >shouldn't be interrogated , like BOL is so good at, for ideological
> >mistakes they didn't give birth to.  Historical materialism also
> >demands that all these trends are born from their pasts and give birth
> >to their futures.   All those who call themselves Marxists should know
> >that--they should begin to reexamine their (our) tendency to reduce
> >ideological trends to single moments in time when their political
> >rivals acted incorrectly.
> >
> >I think this is a step towards cultural revolution that will allow us
> >to practice Unity and Struggle on a higher level.   Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> > > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:21:27 -0000
> > > >
> > > >Paul,
> > > >If you don't want to have the discussion, what can I tell you. I
> >think that
> > > >so far it has been productive and comraderly. The fight club
> >refernce is
> > > >lost on me. Unless you disgaree with my assesment of the tone and
> >spirit of
> > > >the discussion thus far, I would guess either your are running
out of
> > > >arguements, or you are being influenced by someone who fears
struggle.
> > > >
> > > >      As to the obstruction charge; I think that you are refusing
> >to look
> > > >at
> > > >it dialectically. First, you say I should have orgainzed people to
> >do the
> > > >things that I  suggested. Actually, Paul, that's exactly what I
did.
> > > >Revolutionaries in New Brunswick and their allies in other cities
> >have put
> > > >out two issues of Unity & Struggle as well as a pamphlet by
Baraka and
> > > >AmiriBaraka.com now exists. U&S is being put on a more stable
foting
> > > >reflective our our actual conditions and we are in the process of
> >uniting
> > > >with our allies in BNF and have already done so with
> >Revolutionaries from
> > > >Pa'lante. We have also begun to find ways to unite with
> >revolutionaries in
> > > >SWORD. While there are certainly shortcomings in these efforts. We
> >think
> > > >that we are further along then we have ever been.
> > > >     It is my line and my comrdaes in U&S that these are the most
> >pressing
> > > >tasks of revolutionaries; in two words agitation and propaganda. I
> >say you
> > > >refuse to look at it dialectically because you seem to think that
> >you and
> > > >whoever you are organizing with have cornered the market on
> >revolutionary
> > > >activity, that nothing else exists.
> > > >      Paul your masg. confuses me because you say struggle over
> >political
> > > >line in meetings is a waste of "precious time" that could be spent
> >"putting
> > > >people into action". Paul at best you seem to believe that "doing
> >work" or
> > > >practice is good in itself. I don't believe that.  Before I get
> >"put into
> > > >action",  I want to know what the action is and what purpose it
> >serves. I
> > > >don't do "work" for work's sake. And I would never encourage anyone
> >else to
> > > >do so. I "worked" in NJFO since 1994 and the political line has
been
> > > >essenatially the same as the one you are upholding. We started to
> >break out
> > > >of it when we began the campaign but it is back in full force. A
> >bunch of
> > > >college students and former students canvasing New Brunswick has
> >never won
> > > >any referedum nor will it. The only way to advance on the local
> >level is to
> > > >cease acting unilaterally. And to begin to struggle tirelessly for
> >unity of
> > > >ALL progressive, revolutionary democartic forces and unite with the
> >working
> > > >people and democartic middle classes of New Brunswick.
Especially their
> > > >existing organziations. Another "join us" effort or worse "don't
> >join us"
> > > >effort will fail.
> > > >      I think that fundraising for an office community democracy
> >people's
> > > >center space is an obstruction to revolutionary political work.
Also I
> > > >think
> > > >that that line (office space  blah blah) is dead in the water. And
> >more
> > > >that
> > > >those who support it refuse to ackowledge that it is a failure,
and an
> > > >incorrect line in PRACTICE as well as in theory the less we will be
> >able to
> > > >move forward.. Mao explains that the internal contradictions of a
> >thing or
> > > >process are primary over the external. I raise that point because I
> >am sure
> > > >that in addition to the accusation of obstructionism, we are
also being
> > > >blamed for the failure of this political line.
> > > >      Paul, the accusatuion of "obstructionism" in the local
> >movement is
> > > >the
> > > >catchall that has been used histroically to force splits and
> >expulsions. It
> > > >is leveled against anyone who disagrees and has the courage to
> >stand by and
> > > >struggle for their line. As you may or may not know Cliff was
> >expelled from
> > > >NJFO in 1996 because he oppossed the ultra-left formulation of
> >"Maoism" as
> > > >well as the Hungerford's line of Boycatting the presidentail
> >election. He
> > > >was a minority of one. Evry excuse was sought to get rid of his
> > > >"obstructionism". I can remember one meeting were he asked
> >repeatedly "what
> > > >is Maoism". This enraged the froup because on the one hand we were
> > > >"Maoists"
> > > >and on the other we didn't know what it was; in that position how
> >can you
> > > >answer the question. There is an answer expulsion.
Unfortunatelt Cliff
> > > >provided the pret-text by assaulting women in the organiztion. But
> >the fact
> > > >remains that he was expelled because if his line (which in that
> >case was
> > > >correct) the reasons given for his expulsion were a disingenious
> >pre-text.
> > > >      Sorry for the stroll down memory lane but these problmes have
> >not
> > > >been
> > > >sorted out and thus they remain. Paul and anyone else, it is my
> >line that
> > > >the obstruction is the office space line and that it has failed and
> >that
> > > >there is a persitent refusal to acknowledge that fact.
> > > >We need to unite revolutionaries and progressives, correct each
> >other and
> > > >put the defeat of Shundler in November on the top of our agenda.
> > > >
> > > >Keith
> > > >PS. I am still enjopying the debate and think that it is
productive.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@h...>
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:11:47 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >I personally am not so excited by this discussion.  I'm
beginning to
> > > >think
> > > > >it's rooted in some old and destructive traditions that relate to
> >the
> > > >Fight
> > > > >Club in all of us.
> > > > >
> > > > >As far as the obstruction goes, I think anyone who was at the
> >NJFO and
> > > >NBPC
> > > > >meetings following the election will agree that you not only made
> >your
> > > > >point
> > > > >explicitly, Keith, but you persistedly repeated yourself without
> > > > >encouraging
> > > > >productive discussion that would have lead towards some practical
> >action.
> > > > >
> > > > >With or without a majority standing, vocal advocates should
> >always make
> > > > >themselves clear, but you would have been a lot more effective if
> >you had
> > > > >focused your energy on organizing people (outside the meetings)
> >into the
> > > > >tasks you were suggesting, rather than speaking an inordinate
> >amount at
> > > >the
> > > > >meetings.  When that happens we all lose precious time that
could be
> > > >spent
> > > > >putting people into action or developing new ideas as a group in
> > > >meetings.
> > > > >That's why I call it 'obstruction'.
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> > > > > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 00:49:14 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I am glad that this discussion is taking place, I think that it
> >is much
> > > > > >needed and will help us advance. It seems to me that we are
> >finding
> > > >some
> > > > > >points of agreement.
> > > > > >There are also some points of continued disagreement that I
> >hope we can
> > > > > >work
> > > > > >on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Paul wrote:
> > > > > >"I never denied that the NPBC made mistakes, my main complaint
> >is that
> > > > >the
> > > > > >most acute criticism has never made an attempt to assess our
> > > >relationship
> > > > > >with the working class in NB. It's been "they made
alliances with
> > > >greens
> > > > > >and
> > > > > >repubs and where is the quantified and qualitative analysis?"
> >That's
> > > >been
> > > > > >followed by calls for quantitative and qualitative formal
analysis.
> > > > > > > >Yes, we need that."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >It is my opinion that camapign was led by students and former
> >students
> > > > >and
> > > > > >had a primarily student base. At the same time it had
significant
> > > >support
> > > > > >and sympathy among working people and elements of
democratic middle
> > > > > >classes.
> > > > > >This is my one line assessment. But I also feel that
working class
> > > >slogan
> > > > > >in
> > > > > >November 2000 was beat bush demand, more from Gore. By not
> >forwarding
> > > >the
> > > > > >slogan (because of the mentioned alliances) we alienated
> >ourselves from
> > > > > >working class people, during the course of the campaign and on
> >election
> > > > > >day.
> > > > > >At the same time not advancing the slogan (beat bush...) we
did not
> > > > > >alienate
> > > > > >ourselves from students who supported Nader but they became our
> > > >strongest
> > > > > >supporters outside of the activist core and many joined the
> >activist
> > > > >core.
> > > > > >     So what I am saying is that we (the People's Campaign)
made a
> > > >choice
> > > > > >(some more conscious of this than others) to accomadate and
seek
> > > >student
> > > > > >support when it led to an alienated relationship with the
working
> > > >class.
> > > > > >The
> > > > > >opportunist aspect is that at least some of us believe
> >(including Paul,
> > > > > >judgeing from what he has written eldewhere) believe that the
> >working
> > > > >class
> > > > > >is the only class that will fight relentlessly and thoughly for
> > > >democracy
> > > > > >and revolution. Also when you disconnect local activity from a
> >more
> > > >long
> > > > > >term national vision/program you implicitly saying that "the
> >movemnt is
> > > > > >everything the goal is nothing".
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Paul continues:
> > > > > >"It was definitely a mistake to ignore national issues.  Every
> >party in
> > > > >the
> > > > > >united front is entitled to produce their own literature, no
> >matter how
> > > > > >ineffective or corny it may be. And revolutionaries and
others with
> > > > > >national
> > > > > >stands should have taken advantage of that. Forces who
sought to
> > > >suppress
> > > > > >such agitprop should be called out in violation of the rules."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I agree with you, but I would go farther and say that we must
> >have a
> > > > >united
> > > > > >front that has a level of unity that is beyond "defeat the
> >machine" we
> > > > > >don't
> > > > > >all have to be revolutionaries, or want socialism, but we all
> >have to
> > > > >want
> > > > > >democracy. For instance, I am not interested in organizational
> >unity
> > > >with
> > > > > >people who do not want to stop Bret Shundler, simply because we
> >don't
> > > > >have
> > > > > >time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Paul wrote:
> > > > > >"But to assert that all we had to do was put out the correct
> >line on
> > > > > >national issues and we would have won, is certainly fallacious
> > > >thinking."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I think that all we need is ea correct political line in
> >general. Lokk
> > > >at
> > > > > >this way, what else could we have done. Could we have worked
> >harder
> > > >spent
> > > > > >more hours etc. I don't think that is possible. I don't think
> >anyone
> > > > >saved
> > > > > >anything for November 8.
> > > > > >At work they say don't to work fast you have to work smart. We
> >worked
> > > >as
> > > > > >fast as we could but we didn't work smart, that is we didn't
> >have a
> > > >good
> > > > > >political line.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >I agree in general with the points you made using Betleheim, I
> >think
> > > >that
> > > > > >is
> > > > > >exactly the point.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Paul ends with these questions.
> > > > > >"This brings up the most vital question---what course do we
take to
> > > > > >organize
> > > > > >working class people to lead the movement?  What are the
> >implications
> > > >for
> > > > > >the United Front?  Can agitation and propaganda alone be
the secret
> > > > > >weapons?
> > > > > >This questions are think are good ones., to organize the
> >working class
> > > >to
> > > > > >lead we must fuse socialist consciousness or revolutionary
> >ideology
> > > >with
> > > > > >the
> > > > > >working calss movemnt. I think that Lenin's What is to be done
> >adresses
> > > > >the
> > > > > >above questions. If you remember that Lenin was a meber of teh
> >Russian
> > > > > >Social-Democratic Labor Party which was in fact a united
front of
> > > >various
> > > > > >revolutionary groupings and trends, both mensheviks and
> >Bolsheviks. It
> > > > > >didn't become the CPSUB until after October 1917.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Paul you conclude with questions/accusations which I am sure
> >have been
> > > > >made
> > > > > >before but you are the firts to put these things to me
> >directly. Hurray
> > > > >for
> > > > > >a move against liberalism. Paul Wrote:
> > > > > >"What is the value of six months of criticisms that neglect to
> >suggest
> > > > > >better methods for accomplishing these tasks?"
> > > > > >Actually Paul I have made alternative proposals from the
> >beginning. I
> > > > >just
> > > > > >re-sent the proposal that I made at the Feb. 10th meeting where
> >it was
> > > > > >decided to work for the "community center democratic office
> >space". I
> > > >sd
> > > > > >that we should remain involvde in elecrial politics at the
> >local and
> > > > > >statewide level, that we should put forward a national program
> >or at
> > > > >leats
> > > > > >begin too.
> > > > > >The accusation you make is one taht has been made often in the
> >past six
> > > > > >months I don't think taht it is based in reality. If you think
> >that it
> > > >is
> > > > > >accurate I would appreciate it if you would elaborate so
that I can
> > > > >correct
> > > > > >myself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Paul asked:
> > > > > >"What role has obstruction of meetings by forces on the Right
> >and the
> > > > >Left
> > > > > >(Frank and Keith) played in our dormancy?"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >This is another one of those accustaions. If you mean by
> >"obstruction"
> > > > >that
> > > > > >I refused to succomb to what I beleived (fund raising for the
> >office
> > > > > >community center democratic culture space) was a bad political
> >line and
> > > > > >that
> > > > > >I continually raised my objections and criticism then by all
> >means I am
> > > > > >guilty. But practice has proven that it is not so easy to
raise 15
> > > >large
> > > > >by
> > > > > >telling rich folks that you have a good idea to get rid of them
> >and you
> > > > > >would like them to finance it. As far as I am concerned
> >prcatice has
> > > > > >vindicated my criticism of this line. We can't even pay a two
> >hundred
> > > > > >dollar
> > > > > >phone bill.
> > > > > >    A brief story might make the absurdity of the obstruction
> >charge
> > > > >clear.
> > > > > >If we all decided to take a trip to Florida and the driver got
> >on route
> > > > >80
> > > > > >west and everyone but myself agreed that it was a good idea and
> >i kept
> > > > > >trying to get the car onto route 95 south... am I an
> >obstructionist.
> > > > > >Actually the obstructionsit charge is just a revulsion against
> > > >democracy.
> > > > > >      Might I not just as easily say that the obstructionists
> >are the
> > > > > >supporters of the office/community center line who have
> >obstructed our
> > > > > >participation in electoral politics. Could it not be said
that the
> > > > > >obstructionists are those who refuse to look at our efforts
> >criticially
> > > > >and
> > > > > >have sought to block all attempts to bring critical reflection
> >upon the
> > > > > >camapign.  The whole time the most reactionary section of the
> > > >republican
> > > > > >party has been preparing a coup and now we have to deal
with this
> > > >smiling
> > > > > >neo-fascist buffoon Bret Shundler and our champion is this Geek
> >mayor
> > > > >from
> > > > > >Wood bridge and we have done nothing but dream of raising money
> >and
> > > >avoid
> > > > > >criticsm.
> > > > > >    I think that the obstructionist charge is a crock...
> > > > > >Could we all have jsut rallied around the office community
> >cnetr fund
> > > > > >raising line. sure, but we would not be any farther along on it
> >than we
> > > > >are
> > > > > >now and we would have the added benifit of being clueless.
> > > > > >I am glad that we are having this discussion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Keith
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> > > > > > > >>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > > > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > > >>CC: nbpcmembers@y..., njfo@y...
> > > > > > > >>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > > > > > >>Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:45:58 -0000
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>I am glad that Paul took the time to respond to the
U&S forum.
> > > > > > > >>Unfortunately, he stepped back from the points that we
> >agreed upon
> > > > >at
> > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > >>meeting.
> > > > > > > >>   One of the problems that has become apparent is that we
> >don't
> > > > >have
> > > > > > > >>agreement on some basic terminology. First is the term
> >"working
> > > > >class
> > > > > > > >>base".
> > > > > > > >>Paul writes:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>"Matthew and others have contended that we didn?t
reach the
> > > >working
> > > > > > > >>class with the NBPC.  I can?t think of many things farther
> >from
> > > >the
> > > > > > >truth.
> > > > > > > >>I?ve personally tried to convey this so many times..that
> >we spoke
> > > > >with
> > > > > > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with
> >community
> > > > > >control,
> > > > > > > >>down with the platform, down with democracy."
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Paul believes that a base of support is determined by
who you
> > > >canvas
> > > > > >and
> > > > > > > >>if
> > > > > > > >>they like what you say.  This is not what
> >Marxist-Leninists mean
> > > >by
> > > > > > >base.
> > > > > > > >>We mean who is the leadership and who is the active body
> >of the
> > > > > > >campaign.
> > > > > > > >>To
> > > > > > > >>have a working class base you must have working class
> >leadership
> > > >and
> > > > > > > >>working
> > > > > > > >>class membership. To be scientific, to base ourselves on
> >the facts
> > > > >of
> > > > > > >this
> > > > > > > >>issue just count. Are there more students than workers
in the
> > > > > >campaign?
> > > > > > > >>Just review the videotapes of the NBPC meetings and you
> >will see
> > > > >that
> > > > > >it
> > > > > > > >>is
> > > > > > > >>made up of students and led by students or former
> >students. This
> > > >is
> > > > >a
> > > > > > > >>simple
> > > > > > > >>fact.  You are confusing the idea of a base with sympathy.
> > > > > > > >>     That there was working class sympathy no one is
> >denying, this
> > > > > > > >>sympathy
> > > > > > > >>is what Paul experienced when he canvased. Some people
who are
> > > > >looking
> > > > > > >for
> > > > > > > >>excuses say that working people don't have time for
> >meetings. This
> > > > >is
> > > > > > >not
> > > > > > > >>true, they don't have time for meetings that they see as
> >pointless
> > > > >but
> > > > > > > >>many
> > > > > > > >>workers spend entire Sundays at church
> > > > > > > >>and weeknights studying the bible. Many working peiople
> >are very
> > > > > >active
> > > > > > >we
> > > > > > > >>just have not combined and networked with them because we
> >want
> > > >them
> > > > >to
> > > > > > > >>join
> > > > > > > >>us rather than joining them.
> > > > > > > >>Further along Paul wrote:
> > > > > > > >>"As a communist, I?ll say that our most important job
is to
> > > > >represent
> > > > > > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible."
> > > > > > > >>We also disagree here. As Communists our main task is to
> >organize
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > >>working class so that they can seize power. As Lejin
> >explained in
> > > > >What
> > > > > > >is
> > > > > > > >>to
> > > > > > > >>be done fuse socialist consiousness with the working class
> > > >movemnt.
> > > > > >The
> > > > > > > >>middle class claiming to represent working class interests
> >is a
> > > >long
> > > > > > > >>standing problem in the U.S. movement. See the movie
Reds for
> > > > >instance
> > > > > > >or
> > > > > > > >>better yet check out the history. Look at the split
> >between Malcom
> > > > >and
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > >>NOI. That is a class split. That is the working class
> >struggling
> > > > > >against
> > > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > > >>petty-bourgeois for leadership of the movement.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Paul continues:
> > > > > > > >>"...at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other night,
> >the NBPC
> > > > >was
> > > > > > > >>roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which
> > > > >revolutionaries
> > > > > > > >>sold
> > > > > > > >>out their principles to form partnerships with pro-Bush
> >forces."
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Paul, that is simply not true. The campaign was not
> >dismissed and
> > > > > > > >>certainly
> > > > > > > >>not as adventurist (the mistakes were actually
> >conservative not
> > > > > > > >>adventurist).
> > > > > > > >>What did happen is that we were able to come to an
> >agreemnet as to
> > > > > >some
> > > > > > > >>specific facts. First, we agreed it was a mistke that the
> >campaign
> > > > >did
> > > > > > >not
> > > > > > > >>put forward any national agenda, program, or principles
> >in any
> > > > > > >consistent
> > > > > > > >>way. Second there was no discussion of the
presidential race
> > > > > >whatsoever,
> > > > > > > >>and
> > > > > > > >>that such duiscussion was actively suppressed by the
campaign
> > > > >itself.
> > > > > > >Paul
> > > > > > > >>is here back peddaling because these are facts and if
they are
> > > > >agreed
> > > > > > >upon
> > > > > > > >>facts then they must be answered for. Why was there no
> >discussion
> > > >of
> > > > > > > >>national politics? Answer that question and we will be
getting
> > > > > > >somewhere.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Paul makes this point when he writes:
> > > > > > > >>"To dismiss the campaign on the grounds of two strategic
> >alliances
> > > > > >which
> > > > > > > >>barely affected tactics is to ignore the largest
question of
> > > > > >progressive
> > > > > > > >>and
> > > > > > > >>revolutionary politics"
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Paul, the "two strategic alliances" you are referring to
> >are with
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > >>Greens and Republicans.  I don't have any problem with
those
> > > > >alliances
> > > > > > >so
> > > > > > > >>long as they do not result in compromises of principle and
> > > >political
> > > > > > >line.
> > > > > > > >>you say the alliances "barely affected tactics" are you
> >making a
> > > > >joke?
> > > > > > > >>The
> > > > > > > >>campaign did not attack the serial
> > > > > > > >>killer from texas who has since stolen the presidency
> >because we
> > > >had
> > > > > > > >>republican allies. The campaign did not make it clear that
> >Nader's
> > > > > > > >>candidacy
> > > > > > > >>was aiding and abieting Bush 2 because we had allies in
> >the Green
> > > > > >party.
> > > > > > > >>The
> > > > > > > >>working class knows that. The working class line in
> >November was
> > > > >Beat
> > > > > > > >>Bush!
> > > > > > > >>Demand more from Gore!
> > > > > > > >>The definition of opportunism, Paul,  is to make long term
> > > > >sacrifices
> > > > > > > >>for short term gains. The thinking behind the
compromises is
> > > > >textbook
> > > > > > > >>opportunism. I don't know how elese to understand your
> >statment
> > > >that
> > > > > >we
> > > > > > > >>are
> > > > > > > >>ignoring the "largest question of revolutionary politics".
> >Paul,
> > > > >what
> > > > > >is
> > > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > > >>largest question of revolutionary politics and how big is
> >it. To
> > > > > >dismiss
> > > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > > >>national for the local and revolution for reform, and
this is
> > > > >precesly
> > > > > > > >>what
> > > > > > > >>was done, is opportunism.
> > > > > > > >>We fight for democracy because we want socialsim, we
fight for
> > > > >reforms
> > > > > > > >>because we want revolution and we fight locally because
> >that is
> > > >how
> > > > >we
> > > > > > > >>make
> > > > > > > >>change nationally and internationlly. But to dismiss
the ends
> > > > >because
> > > > > >it
> > > > > > > >>is
> > > > > > > >>easier to fight for democrcay without talking aout
> >socialism and
> > > >it
> > > > >is
> > > > > > > >>easier to fight for reforms without talking about
> >revolution this
> > > >is
> > > > > > > >>social-democracy not marxism-leninism. Check out Lenin on
> > > >Bernstein
> > > > >if
> > > > > > >you
> > > > > > > >>are interested.
> > > > > > > >>Paul wrote:
> > > > > > > >>"If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it
> > > >certainly
> > > > > > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who
> >contend
> > > > >that
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > >>campaign didn?t have a working class base, that the
> >campaign was
> > > >not
> > > > > > > >>revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without
> >detailed
> > > > > > > >>investigation."
> > > > > > > >>This reminds me of the kindergarden addage "I'm rubber and
> >your
> > > >glue
> > > > > > > >>whaever
> > > > > > > >>you say bounces off me and sticks to you". To say
something is
> > > > > > >opportunism
> > > > > > > >>is not to call it doo doo. It is a word with a meaning. If
> >you are
> > > > > >going
> > > > > > > >>to
> > > > > > > >>accuse someone of it you should at leats have an
arguemnt. For
> > > > > > >arguemenst
> > > > > > > >>sake let's say that your chrage of opportunism stems
from your
> > > > >charge
> > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > >>we haven't conducted an investigation. This is a stretch
> >but its
> > > > >where
> > > > > > >we
> > > > > > > >>are I guess.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>   But what does this mean "Without detailed
> >investigation" The
> > > > >facts
> > > > > > >are
> > > > > > > >>that I worked on the campaign from January 22 until
> >November 7. I
> > > > > >don't
> > > > > > > >>think that I took 2 days off from the campaign. I worked
> >on it
> > > >every
> > > > > > > >>single
> > > > > > > >>day. I quit my job to work on the campaign full time.  I
> >did not
> > > > >miss
> > > > > > >one
> > > > > > > >>steering committee meeting, I canvassed regularly, I
met with
> > > > >business
> > > > > > > >>owners, church groups, student groups etc. I helped create
> >most of
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > >>literature, I help to organize the first meeting and
> >chaired many
> > > >of
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > > >>following meetings. I was one of the three candidates.  I
> >am not
> > > > > >patting
> > > > > > > >>my
> > > > > > > >>back, I want to know what you mean by "detailed
> >investigation".
> > > >What
> > > > > > >would
> > > > > > > >>you like me to do to conduct a "detailed investigation?
> >Should I
> > > >sit
> > > > > > >down
> > > > > > > >>and interview you about your canvassing experience?
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Paul continues:
> > > > > > > >>"I don?t think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even
> >listened to
> > > >to
> > > > > > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That?s not only unprinicipled, but
> >opportunist
> > > > > > >because
> > > > > > > >>they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
> >revolutionary
> > > > > > >practice
> > > > > > > >>of
> > > > > > > >>the campaign.  This dissing of revolutionary practice is
> > > >predicated
> > > > >on
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > >>less-significant alliances
> > > > > > > >>formed with Greens and Republicans."
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>If the "less-significant alliances with Republicnas and
> >Greens"
> > > >did
> > > > > >not
> > > > > > > >>determine the fact that the Campign had no National
> >Program, No
> > > > > >National
> > > > > > > >>agenda, and was in fact an anti-democrat party united
> >front which
> > > > > > >included
> > > > > > > >>republicans and at best very confused
> > > > > > > >>greens, I would like to know what did. No discussion
of the
> > > > > >Presidential
> > > > > > > >>election which was what was on every one's minds was
firstly
> > > > > >opportunist
> > > > > > > >>(short term put ahead of long term) and secondly one of
> >the main
> > > > > >reasons
> > > > > > > >>we
> > > > > > > >>were defeated in November.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Again the charge of opportunism makes no sense. Paul
> >claims U&S
> > > >just
> > > > > > >wants
> > > > > > > >>to "dis the campaign" why? The majority of the U&S editors
> >from
> > > >put
> > > > > > >blood
> > > > > > > >>sweat and tears into the campaign, we all have a right to
> >claim it
> > > > >as
> > > > > > >our
> > > > > > > >>own. I am associated with its activities whether I like it
> >or not,
> > > > >my
> > > > > > >name
> > > > > > > >>appeared on all of its literature. It seems to me that you
> >are
> > > >just
> > > > > >name
> > > > > > > >>calling. Their is no basis to your charge of opportunism.
> > > > > > > >>Paul, you have never put forward an analysis of why we
> >lost the
> > > > > > > >>election. Listening to you one would think that we won.
> >You just
> > > > > > > >>continually
> > > > > > > >>talk about how much people liked your rap when you
> >canvased them.
> > > >I
> > > > >do
> > > > > > >not
> > > > > > > >>doubt you are a fine canvaser but that is not the point.
> > > > > > > >>Paul wrote:
> > > > > > > >>"It?s precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of
current
> > > >trends
> > > > >in
> > > > > > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem
> >credible
> > > >in
> > > > > >this
> > > > > > > >>ongoing debate."
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>What does this mean Paul.?  What are the  "current
trends in
> > > > > > > >>revolutionary practice" of which I am ignorant. Is there a
> >new
> > > >plan
> > > > >to
> > > > > > > >>raise
> > > > > > > >>a million dollars from a great man of wealth who likes
> >your ideas?
> > > > >Or
> > > > > > >are
> > > > > > > >>we
> > > > > > > >>just well on our way to raising the 15 grand necessary
for the
> > > > > >"People's
> > > > > > > >>democratic community center office
> > > > > > > >>space". Or is there just a "new" list serve without
all those
> > > >pesky
> > > > > >msgs
> > > > > > > >>which interfere with "work".
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>As to the final point, Paul wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>"Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our
> >practice?"
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>This statement actually sheds light on the problem you are
> >having.
> > > > >You
> > > > > > > >>have practice and theory seperated into two compartments.
> >Practice
> > > > >and
> > > > > > > >>theory are not two different things. To talk about
practice is
> > > > >theory,
> > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > >>think about practice is theory.  The only time theory is
> >absent is
> > > > > >when
> > > > > > > >>you
> > > > > > > >>get into what Zen Buddhist call samdhi, or sports
> >enthusiats refer
> > > > >to
> > > > > >as
> > > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > > >>"zone" . Theory is the crytalization of practical
> >experience. To
> > > > > >insist
> > > > > > >on
> > > > > > > >>prcatice without theory as many have or just do "work"
is the
> > > > >essence
> > > > > >of
> > > > > > > >>Social-Democracy. practice without theory has nothing to
> >do with
> > > > > > > >>revolution.
> > > > > > > >>Nor does theory without prcatice.
> > > > > > > >>So, how do we evaluate practice? with theory.
> > > > > > > >>Social Democrats say "the movement is everything, the
goal is
> > > > >nothing"
> > > > > > > >>That is what Bernstien sd. And it is that same idea
that is
> > > > >reflected
> > > > > > >when
> > > > > > > >>we hear the mantra "do work" repeated without discussion
> >of what
> > > > >work
> > > > > > >for
> > > > > > > >>what purpose to what ends.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Perhaps we would get farther if Paul and others who don't
> >believe
> > > > >any
> > > > > > > >>mistakes weremade explain why we lost? (that would be a
> > > >theoretical
> > > > > >act)
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>I would propose the following questions to "evelauate our
> > > >practice"
> > > > > > > >>1. Why did we lose?
> > > > > > > >>2. did we have a national program?
> > > > > > > >>3. did we discuss the presidential election?
> > > > > > > >>4. did we promote the slogan Beat Bush! Demand more from
> >Gore,
> > > >which
> > > > > >all
> > > > > > > >>revolutionaries agreed was the correct slogan
> > > > > > > >>5. Why were people funneled into a pipe dream "office
space"
> > > >project
> > > > > > >after
> > > > > > > >>the November elections instead of remaining involved in
> >electoral
> > > > > > > >>politics?
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>I don't propose thes as rhetorical questions if we can't
> >agree on
> > > > > > >answers
> > > > > > > >>to
> > > > > > > >>these questions we will never be able to achieve a unified
> > > >analysis.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Keith
> > > > > > >
> > >>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> >http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > >>nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1732
Sender:xavier.hansen@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-29 23:00:50
Subject:PLEASE FORWARD - NAZI THREAT IN HIGHLAND PARK
Message:

PLEASE FORWARD TO ALL:

NAZI THREAT IN HIGHLAND PARK

     A racist gang of violent white supremacists has moved into 
Highland Park and physically threatened and assaulted several Afro-
American residents. Neo-nazi thugs have allegedly operated from the 
home of a borough public official who reportedly sports a "WHITE 
POWER" tattoo and brags about illegally firing all black public 
employees from his department!

A STRING OF VIOLENT RACIST ATTACKS

     The much-delayed "investigation" by local authorities into the 
violent incidents that took place on South Tenth Street in April was 
a whitewash. Police Chief Ronald Haskins's report of May 9, 2001 only 
resulted in a couple of petty misdemeanor charges and denied any 
knowledge of a neo-nazi gang in our town. 
     Unconvinced by this official report, we, concerned residents, 
conducted over a dozen interviews with victims, witnesses, borough 
employees and public officials. Here are our findings: 
     Several residents of South Tenth Street report that beginning in 
March of this year, a gang of neo-nazi skinheads started "hanging 
out" at 233 South Tenth Street, home of Lloyd Young Sr., 
Superintendent of Highland Park's Department of Public Works. 
     These white men in their late teens and early twenties numbered 
about half a dozen, wore black slacks, shirts and boots, shaved their 
heads and sported clothing and tattoos with neo-nazi symbols and 
racist slogans.
     In at least four separate incidents in the past months, 
perpetrators fitting this description assaulted and harassed Afro-
American residents.

MARCH: A 36-year old Afro-American woman told at a recent meeting of 
Bridge Builders that she was physically assaulted in late March on 
Benner St. by a white skinhead dressed in black after she came out of 
Adams Bar.

APRIL: On April 10, neighbors witnessed two white youths with shaved 
heads come out of 233 South Tenth Street and chase black youths while 
screaming death threats. One of the skinheads allegedly wielded a 
crow bar, the other a baseball bat. Police claim a stone was thrown 
at the house prior to this incident.

APRIL: On April 11, several young black children allege that they 
were chased by threatening skinheads in black outfits.

JUNE: Soon after Memorial Day, a young Afro-American woman reported 
that while she walked down Woodbridge Ave. she was surrounded and 
physically intimidated by a gang of white skinheads dressed in black 
who muttered threats at her. 

A WHITE SUPREMACIST BOROUGH OFFICIAL?

     Neighbors contend that members of a neo-nazi skinhead gang have 
lived at the house of Lloyd Young Sr., including his son, Lloyd Young 
Jr., and his nephew, Walter Pawlikowski. Both men were charged on May 
9 with disorderly conduct along with Herbert T. Straub for the April 
10 altercation.
     Mr. Young Sr. has been the chief official at the Department of 
Public Works for over 20 years. Co-workers and neighbors describe him 
as a virulently racist man who sports a "WHITE POWER" tattoo on his 
left arm. A former department employee also claims that several 
current employees also sport white supremacist tattoos.
     According to two former borough employees, Mr. Young has 
repeatedly bragged about getting rid of all black workers in his 
department. The borough administrator, Richard Kunze, confirmed that  
THERE IS NOT A SINGLE BLACK, LATINO OR ASIAN EMPLOYEE LEFT IN 
HIGHLAND PARK'S DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS. 

A RACIST COVER-UP?

     Lloyd Young Sr. -whose home, neighbors claim,  has housed neo-
nazi skinheads- is on friendly terms with several local police 
officers. Two neighbors report that following a loud argument five 
years ago, they heard several shots coming from inside the house at 
233 South Tenth Street but that the police made no arrest. 
     Former borough employees also assert that Mr. Young was very 
active in the mayoral campaigns of former mayor and current Middlesex 
County Freeholder James Polos.
     Neither the police nor the town's political leaders have shown 
the willingness to deal with this nazi threat openly. Worse, several 
neighboring Afro-American teenagers and their parents allege that 
Highland Park police told them not to walk on South Tenth Street to 
avoid trouble. THIS IS "JIM CROW" SEGREGATION IN OUR TOWN. 
     We cannot allow any resident to be told where they can or cannot 
go based on the color of their skin just because violent nazis live 
in the neighborhood.

Victims, witnesses, neighbors and co-workers all spoke on the 
condition that their names not be used and said they have not pressed 
charges because they are scared of these neo-nazi thugs and do not 
trust that the police will protect them from retaliation.

HIGHLAND PARK MUST SHOW 
ZERO TOLERANCE FOR 
WHITE SUPREMACIST CRIMINALS

     We are not faced with a couple of isolated bigots but with an 
organized group of violent neo-nazi skinheads that may have a 
foothold in our own local government! In Germany, Hitler's Nazis also 
began with small groups of street thugs aided and abetted by corrupt 
bureaucrats and police officers. The Nazi Party then rose to power 
because the political leadership of Europe failed to act to stop it. 
We can never make that mistake again.
     

     We demand an investigation into all alleged neo-nazi criminal 
activity in the borough and into all alleged civil rights violations 
in Highland Park's Department of Public Works. 

     We demand that any and all civil rights violators be prosecuted 
to the full extent of the law, as well as any and all public 
officials who failed to report civil rights violations known to them.

     We demand the establishment of an elected civilian police 
control board to ensure that our police department protects and 
serves all people and prosecutes all civil rights violators, even if 
they hold positions of power in the government. 

SPEAK OUT AGAINST NEO-NAZI VIOLENCE!
JOIN US AT THE NEXT BOROUGH COUNCIL MEETING
TUESDAY JULY 10, 8PM

If you have any information about neo-nazi activity or civil rights 
violations in Highland Park, please call us at (732) 729-0873 or send 
us an email at hp_peoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com

HIGHLAND PARK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN - (732) 729-0873
Reach us on the internet at hp_peoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1733
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-30 00:06:26
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:

more specific bush2 lover, people hater!

bury schundler!
vote greasy- joe


>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:22:03 EDT
>
>
>logic vs. illogic...

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1734
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-30 00:20:22
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
Message:

when and where is the peoples' campaign meeting?

rip down, burn, destroy all confederate flags!!

joe


>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
>Date: Wed, 09 Jan 1980 15:33:40 -0500
>
>Joe,
>I misread your e-mail. You didn't make any connection to Shundler.
>
>But like you said the odds of Frank oppossing Shundler are 100 to 1. So he 
>won't join;
>so  we don't need to exclude him. That's my point.
>Keith
>
>joseph smith wrote:
>
> > i do not know where you get the connection of my points to schundler? 
>that
> > is not what i wrote.
> >
> > further more, where in the peoples' democratic united front is there 
>room
> > for republicans? especially when you propose that the immediate task of 
>our
> > united front be organized to bury the republicans.
> >
> > i would gladly accept any allies in this task, but bright will be of no
> > assistance. if he decided to work to bury schundler i don't see how he 
>would
> > affiliate with the republican party.
> >
> > let's just ask him.
> >
> > bright, do you support schundler? i'm layin 100 to 7 on yes - any 
>takers?
> >
> > joe
> >
> > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: Fwd: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
> > >Date: Wed, 09 Jan 1980 08:10:57 -0500
> > >
> > >Joe,
> > >If you think that the People's campaign registratiuon of any 
>republicans in
> > >New Brunswick had an effect on Shundler's victory.  I think that you 
>are
> > >mistaken.
> > >There are many reasons that Shundler won but your argument is mystical. 
>I
> > >have already fought to unite evryone in the People's Camapign and will
> > >continue to do so, but it has nothing to do with registering as a
> > >repoublican. I don't agree with purging anyone at the moment from the
> > >People's Campaign. I think that the People's Campaign must put the 
>defeat
> > >of Shundler on the top of its agends immediately or be a useless
> > >organization. If anyone doesn't like that, they can leave but I won't 
>purge
> > >them or advocate that they be purged.  If Frank wants to work for
> > >Shundler's defeat I will work with him, if he doesn't, I
> > >won't.
> > >      My line is principles of unity and work towards a democartic 
>program
> > >as the basis of unity. No one is purged or expelled who agrees with the
> > >principles and the program. To join or not to join is on them.
> > >      Purges are for a revolutionary organization not a mass based 
>united
> > >front. The line of purging from mass organizations is fallacious; it is 
>the
> > >same line that was upheld by the steering committeee of the People's
> > >Camapign. Joe only disagrees with who got purged but the line is wrong 
>in
> > >form and content.
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >joseph smith wrote:
> > >
> > > > no act of god can change these mistakes.
> > > > you should make the proposal that myself and others be reinstated 
>into
> > >the peoples' campaign and that the campaign purge itself of all 
>republicans
> > >immediately. and that the campaign apply its practical tasks around the
> > >surveys, that is the office space arguement.
> > > >
> > > > i am referring in my arguement with tom to the fact that the 
>republican
> > >party outside of new brunswick took notice of a couple of thousand 
>votes
> > >for registered republicans. do you not think this point is valid to 
>bring
> > >up? it is the first time it has been suggested that i know of. it is 
>also
> > >why bright was appointed to the housing authority.
> > > >
> > > > joe
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
> > > > >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: lknesta@...
> > > > >CC: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
> > > > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 00:57:20 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >Joe,
> > > > >I resigned my republican registration and I have also criticized 
>the
> > >actions and the political line. Yet, you constantly raise this point.
> > >Perhaps you would like to issue me with some pennance. I could do two 
>acts
> > >of contritions and 15 Our Fathers if that would be satisfactory.
> > > > >Please advise.
> > > > >Keith
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> > > > > >>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >>To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, nbpc@egroups.com,
> > > > > >>njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >>Subject: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
> > > > > >>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:04:06 -0400
> > > > > >>
> > funny, all those "peoples' democratic" candidates are registered
> > republicans.
> >
> > you play yourself, i just point it out.
> >
> > joe
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> >From: "Thomas DeGloma" <tdegloma@...>
> > > > > >> >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >> >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, nbpc@egroups.com,
> > > > > >>njfo@egroups.com
> > > > > >> >Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Shank Schundler! working 
>class
> > > > >base?
> > > > > >> >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:42:04 -0000
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > 
> >>_________________________________________________________________
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> > > > > >>To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@...
> > > > > >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > >njfo-unsubscribe@...
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >>
> > > > > ><< message3.txt >>
> > > > >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1735
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-30 07:38:44
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:

Joe,

You fail to propose a cogent response and, instead, sloganeered. I believe 
the onus is upon you.

Best






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1736
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-30 14:55:14
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:

yr slander of joe as" divisive on the BOE question" flies in the face of the 
reality of the thousands of signatures of support he has produced for the 
campaign.  the voters he has registered, the people he has educated & built 
unity w/.

beyond that, it contradicts the democratic will of the community as 
expressed in their confidence vote for him at the convention, over yr 
panicked attack.  to say, this demonstrates yr own divisiveness to the 
people.

except that joe, like marxism--which you misrepresent, is divisive as 
"dividing" the people from their imperialist enemies.

there wd have been no other work on the boe campaign were not for the 
signatures joe organized which raised the referendum.

dont get it twisted, the "name-calling" is all political.

shank schundler.
vote mcgeasy.
peoples' war on the right.

cliff

>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
>Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:01:56 EDT
>
>
>
>If you read my e-mail, I feel Joe is divisive on the BOE question. I said
>Marxism is not necessarily divisive. No need to get so hot under the 
>collar,
>Cliff. Personal name calling is an irrational way of determining the proper
>perspective to have on an issue.
>
>The signatures you got were great. No one wants to take that away from you.
>Other work was done that year besides the BOE question, though.
>
>Lastly ... hey, why can't I have a beer and not be criticized?

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1737
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-30 14:56:41
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:

peoples' logic vs. imperialist "logic"

cs


>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:22:03 EDT
>
>
>logic vs. illogic...

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1738
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-30 15:02:13
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
Message:

incorrect & backward political lines dont "give birth" to new ones if they 
are defeated.

"cultural revolution" is a call for peoples' education, expression & 
struggle, not an excuse to promote incorrect, liberal arguments as 
"revolutionary" or "marxist".

cliff

>From: shorepaulie@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:58:40 -0000
>
>I want to address this from a different perspective than usual.  The
>office space things failed, yes. I said it.  I don't think the real
>problem is that it failed because it's generally a bad political line.
>
>If we had robust campaigns during the winter, we could have put some
>people into office renting, or whatever and that might have been
>critical.   But we didn't have other things going on.
>
>So instead of calling the office space line the principal cause of us
>falling flat, why don't we ask why the NBPC didn't have more
>organizers ready to initiate work right after the campaign?  That goes
>back to another question: What could we do better when we organize so
>that the people we work with begin to take initiative in political
>work themselves?  So that people become organizers instead of
>task-doers, or activists.
>
>That is, how do people change their relationship to real democratic
>politics?  How do we change these relations?  That is, change our
>relations with our network so that our network begins to change its
>relations with its people.
>
>I think we're better off asking questions like this, instead of
>pinning longterm success and failure to singular decisions while
>years' long processes are really the causal factors behind our
>successs and failures with the NBPC last fall, for instance.
>
>I think that approach is more healthy for the movement, people
>shouldn't be interrogated , like BOL is so good at, for ideological
>mistakes they didn't give birth to.  Historical materialism also
>demands that all these trends are born from their pasts and give birth
>to their futures.   All those who call themselves Marxists should know
>that--they should begin to reexamine their (our) tendency to reduce
>ideological trends to single moments in time when their political
>rivals acted incorrectly.
>
>I think this is a step towards cultural revolution that will allow us
>to practice Unity and Struggle on a higher level.   Paul
>
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:21:27 -0000
> > >
> > >Paul,
> > >If you don't want to have the discussion, what can I tell you. I
>think that
> > >so far it has been productive and comraderly. The fight club
>refernce is
> > >lost on me. Unless you disgaree with my assesment of the tone and
>spirit of
> > >the discussion thus far, I would guess either your are running out of
> > >arguements, or you are being influenced by someone who fears struggle.
> > >
> > >      As to the obstruction charge; I think that you are refusing
>to look
> > >at
> > >it dialectically. First, you say I should have orgainzed people to
>do the
> > >things that I  suggested. Actually, Paul, that's exactly what I did.
> > >Revolutionaries in New Brunswick and their allies in other cities
>have put
> > >out two issues of Unity & Struggle as well as a pamphlet by Baraka and
> > >AmiriBaraka.com now exists. U&S is being put on a more stable foting
> > >reflective our our actual conditions and we are in the process of
>uniting
> > >with our allies in BNF and have already done so with
>Revolutionaries from
> > >Pa'lante. We have also begun to find ways to unite with
>revolutionaries in
> > >SWORD. While there are certainly shortcomings in these efforts. We
>think
> > >that we are further along then we have ever been.
> > >     It is my line and my comrdaes in U&S that these are the most
>pressing
> > >tasks of revolutionaries; in two words agitation and propaganda. I
>say you
> > >refuse to look at it dialectically because you seem to think that
>you and
> > >whoever you are organizing with have cornered the market on
>revolutionary
> > >activity, that nothing else exists.
> > >      Paul your masg. confuses me because you say struggle over
>political
> > >line in meetings is a waste of "precious time" that could be spent
>"putting
> > >people into action". Paul at best you seem to believe that "doing
>work" or
> > >practice is good in itself. I don't believe that.  Before I get
>"put into
> > >action",  I want to know what the action is and what purpose it
>serves. I
> > >don't do "work" for work's sake. And I would never encourage anyone
>else to
> > >do so. I "worked" in NJFO since 1994 and the political line has been
> > >essenatially the same as the one you are upholding. We started to
>break out
> > >of it when we began the campaign but it is back in full force. A
>bunch of
> > >college students and former students canvasing New Brunswick has
>never won
> > >any referedum nor will it. The only way to advance on the local
>level is to
> > >cease acting unilaterally. And to begin to struggle tirelessly for
>unity of
> > >ALL progressive, revolutionary democartic forces and unite with the
>working
> > >people and democartic middle classes of New Brunswick. Especially their
> > >existing organziations. Another "join us" effort or worse "don't
>join us"
> > >effort will fail.
> > >      I think that fundraising for an office community democracy
>people's
> > >center space is an obstruction to revolutionary political work. Also I
> > >think
> > >that that line (office space  blah blah) is dead in the water. And
>more
> > >that
> > >those who support it refuse to ackowledge that it is a failure, and an
> > >incorrect line in PRACTICE as well as in theory the less we will be
>able to
> > >move forward.. Mao explains that the internal contradictions of a
>thing or
> > >process are primary over the external. I raise that point because I
>am sure
> > >that in addition to the accusation of obstructionism, we are also being
> > >blamed for the failure of this political line.
> > >      Paul, the accusatuion of "obstructionism" in the local
>movement is
> > >the
> > >catchall that has been used histroically to force splits and
>expulsions. It
> > >is leveled against anyone who disagrees and has the courage to
>stand by and
> > >struggle for their line. As you may or may not know Cliff was
>expelled from
> > >NJFO in 1996 because he oppossed the ultra-left formulation of
>"Maoism" as
> > >well as the Hungerford's line of Boycatting the presidentail
>election. He
> > >was a minority of one. Evry excuse was sought to get rid of his
> > >"obstructionism". I can remember one meeting were he asked
>repeatedly "what
> > >is Maoism". This enraged the froup because on the one hand we were
> > >"Maoists"
> > >and on the other we didn't know what it was; in that position how
>can you
> > >answer the question. There is an answer expulsion. Unfortunatelt Cliff
> > >provided the pret-text by assaulting women in the organiztion. But
>the fact
> > >remains that he was expelled because if his line (which in that
>case was
> > >correct) the reasons given for his expulsion were a disingenious
>pre-text.
> > >      Sorry for the stroll down memory lane but these problmes have
>not
> > >been
> > >sorted out and thus they remain. Paul and anyone else, it is my
>line that
> > >the obstruction is the office space line and that it has failed and
>that
> > >there is a persitent refusal to acknowledge that fact.
> > >We need to unite revolutionaries and progressives, correct each
>other and
> > >put the defeat of Shundler in November on the top of our agenda.
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >PS. I am still enjopying the debate and think that it is productive.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@h...>
> > > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:11:47 -0000
> > > >
> > > >I personally am not so excited by this discussion.  I'm beginning to
> > >think
> > > >it's rooted in some old and destructive traditions that relate to
>the
> > >Fight
> > > >Club in all of us.
> > > >
> > > >As far as the obstruction goes, I think anyone who was at the
>NJFO and
> > >NBPC
> > > >meetings following the election will agree that you not only made
>your
> > > >point
> > > >explicitly, Keith, but you persistedly repeated yourself without
> > > >encouraging
> > > >productive discussion that would have lead towards some practical
>action.
> > > >
> > > >With or without a majority standing, vocal advocates should
>always make
> > > >themselves clear, but you would have been a lot more effective if
>you had
> > > >focused your energy on organizing people (outside the meetings)
>into the
> > > >tasks you were suggesting, rather than speaking an inordinate
>amount at
> > >the
> > > >meetings.  When that happens we all lose precious time that could be
> > >spent
> > > >putting people into action or developing new ideas as a group in
> > >meetings.
> > > >That's why I call it 'obstruction'.
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 00:49:14 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >I am glad that this discussion is taking place, I think that it
>is much
> > > > >needed and will help us advance. It seems to me that we are
>finding
> > >some
> > > > >points of agreement.
> > > > >There are also some points of continued disagreement that I
>hope we can
> > > > >work
> > > > >on.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul wrote:
> > > > >"I never denied that the NPBC made mistakes, my main complaint
>is that
> > > >the
> > > > >most acute criticism has never made an attempt to assess our
> > >relationship
> > > > >with the working class in NB. It's been "they made alliances with
> > >greens
> > > > >and
> > > > >repubs and where is the quantified and qualitative analysis?"
>That's
> > >been
> > > > >followed by calls for quantitative and qualitative formal analysis.
> > > > > > >Yes, we need that."
> > > > >
> > > > >It is my opinion that camapign was led by students and former
>students
> > > >and
> > > > >had a primarily student base. At the same time it had significant
> > >support
> > > > >and sympathy among working people and elements of democratic middle
> > > > >classes.
> > > > >This is my one line assessment. But I also feel that working class
> > >slogan
> > > > >in
> > > > >November 2000 was beat bush demand, more from Gore. By not
>forwarding
> > >the
> > > > >slogan (because of the mentioned alliances) we alienated
>ourselves from
> > > > >working class people, during the course of the campaign and on
>election
> > > > >day.
> > > > >At the same time not advancing the slogan (beat bush...) we did not
> > > > >alienate
> > > > >ourselves from students who supported Nader but they became our
> > >strongest
> > > > >supporters outside of the activist core and many joined the
>activist
> > > >core.
> > > > >     So what I am saying is that we (the People's Campaign) made a
> > >choice
> > > > >(some more conscious of this than others) to accomadate and seek
> > >student
> > > > >support when it led to an alienated relationship with the working
> > >class.
> > > > >The
> > > > >opportunist aspect is that at least some of us believe
>(including Paul,
> > > > >judgeing from what he has written eldewhere) believe that the
>working
> > > >class
> > > > >is the only class that will fight relentlessly and thoughly for
> > >democracy
> > > > >and revolution. Also when you disconnect local activity from a
>more
> > >long
> > > > >term national vision/program you implicitly saying that "the
>movemnt is
> > > > >everything the goal is nothing".
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul continues:
> > > > >"It was definitely a mistake to ignore national issues.  Every
>party in
> > > >the
> > > > >united front is entitled to produce their own literature, no
>matter how
> > > > >ineffective or corny it may be. And revolutionaries and others with
> > > > >national
> > > > >stands should have taken advantage of that. Forces who sought to
> > >suppress
> > > > >such agitprop should be called out in violation of the rules."
> > > > >
> > > > >I agree with you, but I would go farther and say that we must
>have a
> > > >united
> > > > >front that has a level of unity that is beyond "defeat the
>machine" we
> > > > >don't
> > > > >all have to be revolutionaries, or want socialism, but we all
>have to
> > > >want
> > > > >democracy. For instance, I am not interested in organizational
>unity
> > >with
> > > > >people who do not want to stop Bret Shundler, simply because we
>don't
> > > >have
> > > > >time.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul wrote:
> > > > >"But to assert that all we had to do was put out the correct
>line on
> > > > >national issues and we would have won, is certainly fallacious
> > >thinking."
> > > > >
> > > > >I think that all we need is ea correct political line in
>general. Lokk
> > >at
> > > > >this way, what else could we have done. Could we have worked
>harder
> > >spent
> > > > >more hours etc. I don't think that is possible. I don't think
>anyone
> > > >saved
> > > > >anything for November 8.
> > > > >At work they say don't to work fast you have to work smart. We
>worked
> > >as
> > > > >fast as we could but we didn't work smart, that is we didn't
>have a
> > >good
> > > > >political line.
> > > > > >
> > > > >I agree in general with the points you made using Betleheim, I
>think
> > >that
> > > > >is
> > > > >exactly the point.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul ends with these questions.
> > > > >"This brings up the most vital question---what course do we take to
> > > > >organize
> > > > >working class people to lead the movement?  What are the
>implications
> > >for
> > > > >the United Front?  Can agitation and propaganda alone be the secret
> > > > >weapons?
> > > > >This questions are think are good ones., to organize the
>working class
> > >to
> > > > >lead we must fuse socialist consciousness or revolutionary
>ideology
> > >with
> > > > >the
> > > > >working calss movemnt. I think that Lenin's What is to be done
>adresses
> > > >the
> > > > >above questions. If you remember that Lenin was a meber of teh
>Russian
> > > > >Social-Democratic Labor Party which was in fact a united front of
> > >various
> > > > >revolutionary groupings and trends, both mensheviks and
>Bolsheviks. It
> > > > >didn't become the CPSUB until after October 1917.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul you conclude with questions/accusations which I am sure
>have been
> > > >made
> > > > >before but you are the firts to put these things to me
>directly. Hurray
> > > >for
> > > > >a move against liberalism. Paul Wrote:
> > > > >"What is the value of six months of criticisms that neglect to
>suggest
> > > > >better methods for accomplishing these tasks?"
> > > > >Actually Paul I have made alternative proposals from the
>beginning. I
> > > >just
> > > > >re-sent the proposal that I made at the Feb. 10th meeting where
>it was
> > > > >decided to work for the "community center democratic office
>space". I
> > >sd
> > > > >that we should remain involvde in elecrial politics at the
>local and
> > > > >statewide level, that we should put forward a national program
>or at
> > > >leats
> > > > >begin too.
> > > > >The accusation you make is one taht has been made often in the
>past six
> > > > >months I don't think taht it is based in reality. If you think
>that it
> > >is
> > > > >accurate I would appreciate it if you would elaborate so that I can
> > > >correct
> > > > >myself.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul asked:
> > > > >"What role has obstruction of meetings by forces on the Right
>and the
> > > >Left
> > > > >(Frank and Keith) played in our dormancy?"
> > > > >
> > > > >This is another one of those accustaions. If you mean by
>"obstruction"
> > > >that
> > > > >I refused to succomb to what I beleived (fund raising for the
>office
> > > > >community center democratic culture space) was a bad political
>line and
> > > > >that
> > > > >I continually raised my objections and criticism then by all
>means I am
> > > > >guilty. But practice has proven that it is not so easy to raise 15
> > >large
> > > >by
> > > > >telling rich folks that you have a good idea to get rid of them
>and you
> > > > >would like them to finance it. As far as I am concerned
>prcatice has
> > > > >vindicated my criticism of this line. We can't even pay a two
>hundred
> > > > >dollar
> > > > >phone bill.
> > > > >    A brief story might make the absurdity of the obstruction
>charge
> > > >clear.
> > > > >If we all decided to take a trip to Florida and the driver got
>on route
> > > >80
> > > > >west and everyone but myself agreed that it was a good idea and
>i kept
> > > > >trying to get the car onto route 95 south... am I an
>obstructionist.
> > > > >Actually the obstructionsit charge is just a revulsion against
> > >democracy.
> > > > >      Might I not just as easily say that the obstructionists
>are the
> > > > >supporters of the office/community center line who have
>obstructed our
> > > > >participation in electoral politics. Could it not be said that the
> > > > >obstructionists are those who refuse to look at our efforts
>criticially
> > > >and
> > > > >have sought to block all attempts to bring critical reflection
>upon the
> > > > >camapign.  The whole time the most reactionary section of the
> > >republican
> > > > >party has been preparing a coup and now we have to deal with this
> > >smiling
> > > > >neo-fascist buffoon Bret Shundler and our champion is this Geek
>mayor
> > > >from
> > > > >Wood bridge and we have done nothing but dream of raising money
>and
> > >avoid
> > > > >criticsm.
> > > > >    I think that the obstructionist charge is a crock...
> > > > >Could we all have jsut rallied around the office community
>cnetr fund
> > > > >raising line. sure, but we would not be any farther along on it
>than we
> > > >are
> > > > >now and we would have the added benifit of being clueless.
> > > > >I am glad that we are having this discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > >Keith
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> > > > > > >>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > > > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >>CC: nbpcmembers@y..., njfo@y...
> > > > > > >>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Working class base
> > > > > > >>Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:45:58 -0000
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>I am glad that Paul took the time to respond to the U&S forum.
> > > > > > >>Unfortunately, he stepped back from the points that we
>agreed upon
> > > >at
> > > > > >that
> > > > > > >>meeting.
> > > > > > >>   One of the problems that has become apparent is that we
>don't
> > > >have
> > > > > > >>agreement on some basic terminology. First is the term
>"working
> > > >class
> > > > > > >>base".
> > > > > > >>Paul writes:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>"Matthew and others have contended that we didn?t reach the
> > >working
> > > > > > >>class with the NBPC.  I can?t think of many things farther
>from
> > >the
> > > > > >truth.
> > > > > > >>I?ve personally tried to convey this so many times..that
>we spoke
> > > >with
> > > > > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with
>community
> > > > >control,
> > > > > > >>down with the platform, down with democracy."
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul believes that a base of support is determined by who you
> > >canvas
> > > > >and
> > > > > > >>if
> > > > > > >>they like what you say.  This is not what
>Marxist-Leninists mean
> > >by
> > > > > >base.
> > > > > > >>We mean who is the leadership and who is the active body
>of the
> > > > > >campaign.
> > > > > > >>To
> > > > > > >>have a working class base you must have working class
>leadership
> > >and
> > > > > > >>working
> > > > > > >>class membership. To be scientific, to base ourselves on
>the facts
> > > >of
> > > > > >this
> > > > > > >>issue just count. Are there more students than workers in the
> > > > >campaign?
> > > > > > >>Just review the videotapes of the NBPC meetings and you
>will see
> > > >that
> > > > >it
> > > > > > >>is
> > > > > > >>made up of students and led by students or former
>students. This
> > >is
> > > >a
> > > > > > >>simple
> > > > > > >>fact.  You are confusing the idea of a base with sympathy.
> > > > > > >>     That there was working class sympathy no one is
>denying, this
> > > > > > >>sympathy
> > > > > > >>is what Paul experienced when he canvased. Some people who are
> > > >looking
> > > > > >for
> > > > > > >>excuses say that working people don't have time for
>meetings. This
> > > >is
> > > > > >not
> > > > > > >>true, they don't have time for meetings that they see as
>pointless
> > > >but
> > > > > > >>many
> > > > > > >>workers spend entire Sundays at church
> > > > > > >>and weeknights studying the bible. Many working peiople
>are very
> > > > >active
> > > > > >we
> > > > > > >>just have not combined and networked with them because we
>want
> > >them
> > > >to
> > > > > > >>join
> > > > > > >>us rather than joining them.
> > > > > > >>Further along Paul wrote:
> > > > > > >>"As a communist, I?ll say that our most important job is to
> > > >represent
> > > > > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible."
> > > > > > >>We also disagree here. As Communists our main task is to
>organize
> > > >the
> > > > > > >>working class so that they can seize power. As Lejin
>explained in
> > > >What
> > > > > >is
> > > > > > >>to
> > > > > > >>be done fuse socialist consiousness with the working class
> > >movemnt.
> > > > >The
> > > > > > >>middle class claiming to represent working class interests
>is a
> > >long
> > > > > > >>standing problem in the U.S. movement. See the movie Reds for
> > > >instance
> > > > > >or
> > > > > > >>better yet check out the history. Look at the split
>between Malcom
> > > >and
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > >>NOI. That is a class split. That is the working class
>struggling
> > > > >against
> > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > >>petty-bourgeois for leadership of the movement.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul continues:
> > > > > > >>"...at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other night,
>the NBPC
> > > >was
> > > > > > >>roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which
> > > >revolutionaries
> > > > > > >>sold
> > > > > > >>out their principles to form partnerships with pro-Bush
>forces."
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul, that is simply not true. The campaign was not
>dismissed and
> > > > > > >>certainly
> > > > > > >>not as adventurist (the mistakes were actually
>conservative not
> > > > > > >>adventurist).
> > > > > > >>What did happen is that we were able to come to an
>agreemnet as to
> > > > >some
> > > > > > >>specific facts. First, we agreed it was a mistke that the
>campaign
> > > >did
> > > > > >not
> > > > > > >>put forward any national agenda, program, or principles
>in any
> > > > > >consistent
> > > > > > >>way. Second there was no discussion of the presidential race
> > > > >whatsoever,
> > > > > > >>and
> > > > > > >>that such duiscussion was actively suppressed by the campaign
> > > >itself.
> > > > > >Paul
> > > > > > >>is here back peddaling because these are facts and if they are
> > > >agreed
> > > > > >upon
> > > > > > >>facts then they must be answered for. Why was there no
>discussion
> > >of
> > > > > > >>national politics? Answer that question and we will be getting
> > > > > >somewhere.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul makes this point when he writes:
> > > > > > >>"To dismiss the campaign on the grounds of two strategic
>alliances
> > > > >which
> > > > > > >>barely affected tactics is to ignore the largest question of
> > > > >progressive
> > > > > > >>and
> > > > > > >>revolutionary politics"
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul, the "two strategic alliances" you are referring to
>are with
> > > >the
> > > > > > >>Greens and Republicans.  I don't have any problem with those
> > > >alliances
> > > > > >so
> > > > > > >>long as they do not result in compromises of principle and
> > >political
> > > > > >line.
> > > > > > >>you say the alliances "barely affected tactics" are you
>making a
> > > >joke?
> > > > > > >>The
> > > > > > >>campaign did not attack the serial
> > > > > > >>killer from texas who has since stolen the presidency
>because we
> > >had
> > > > > > >>republican allies. The campaign did not make it clear that
>Nader's
> > > > > > >>candidacy
> > > > > > >>was aiding and abieting Bush 2 because we had allies in
>the Green
> > > > >party.
> > > > > > >>The
> > > > > > >>working class knows that. The working class line in
>November was
> > > >Beat
> > > > > > >>Bush!
> > > > > > >>Demand more from Gore!
> > > > > > >>The definition of opportunism, Paul,  is to make long term
> > > >sacrifices
> > > > > > >>for short term gains. The thinking behind the compromises is
> > > >textbook
> > > > > > >>opportunism. I don't know how elese to understand your
>statment
> > >that
> > > > >we
> > > > > > >>are
> > > > > > >>ignoring the "largest question of revolutionary politics".
>Paul,
> > > >what
> > > > >is
> > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > >>largest question of revolutionary politics and how big is
>it. To
> > > > >dismiss
> > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > >>national for the local and revolution for reform, and this is
> > > >precesly
> > > > > > >>what
> > > > > > >>was done, is opportunism.
> > > > > > >>We fight for democracy because we want socialsim, we fight for
> > > >reforms
> > > > > > >>because we want revolution and we fight locally because
>that is
> > >how
> > > >we
> > > > > > >>make
> > > > > > >>change nationally and internationlly. But to dismiss the ends
> > > >because
> > > > >it
> > > > > > >>is
> > > > > > >>easier to fight for democrcay without talking aout
>socialism and
> > >it
> > > >is
> > > > > > >>easier to fight for reforms without talking about
>revolution this
> > >is
> > > > > > >>social-democracy not marxism-leninism. Check out Lenin on
> > >Bernstein
> > > >if
> > > > > >you
> > > > > > >>are interested.
> > > > > > >>Paul wrote:
> > > > > > >>"If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it
> > >certainly
> > > > > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who
>contend
> > > >that
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > >>campaign didn?t have a working class base, that the
>campaign was
> > >not
> > > > > > >>revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without
>detailed
> > > > > > >>investigation."
> > > > > > >>This reminds me of the kindergarden addage "I'm rubber and
>your
> > >glue
> > > > > > >>whaever
> > > > > > >>you say bounces off me and sticks to you". To say something is
> > > > > >opportunism
> > > > > > >>is not to call it doo doo. It is a word with a meaning. If
>you are
> > > > >going
> > > > > > >>to
> > > > > > >>accuse someone of it you should at leats have an arguemnt. For
> > > > > >arguemenst
> > > > > > >>sake let's say that your chrage of opportunism stems from your
> > > >charge
> > > > > >that
> > > > > > >>we haven't conducted an investigation. This is a stretch
>but its
> > > >where
> > > > > >we
> > > > > > >>are I guess.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>   But what does this mean "Without detailed
>investigation" The
> > > >facts
> > > > > >are
> > > > > > >>that I worked on the campaign from January 22 until
>November 7. I
> > > > >don't
> > > > > > >>think that I took 2 days off from the campaign. I worked
>on it
> > >every
> > > > > > >>single
> > > > > > >>day. I quit my job to work on the campaign full time.  I
>did not
> > > >miss
> > > > > >one
> > > > > > >>steering committee meeting, I canvassed regularly, I met with
> > > >business
> > > > > > >>owners, church groups, student groups etc. I helped create
>most of
> > > >the
> > > > > > >>literature, I help to organize the first meeting and
>chaired many
> > >of
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >>following meetings. I was one of the three candidates.  I
>am not
> > > > >patting
> > > > > > >>my
> > > > > > >>back, I want to know what you mean by "detailed
>investigation".
> > >What
> > > > > >would
> > > > > > >>you like me to do to conduct a "detailed investigation?
>Should I
> > >sit
> > > > > >down
> > > > > > >>and interview you about your canvassing experience?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Paul continues:
> > > > > > >>"I don?t think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even
>listened to
> > >to
> > > > > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That?s not only unprinicipled, but
>opportunist
> > > > > >because
> > > > > > >>they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
>revolutionary
> > > > > >practice
> > > > > > >>of
> > > > > > >>the campaign.  This dissing of revolutionary practice is
> > >predicated
> > > >on
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > >>less-significant alliances
> > > > > > >>formed with Greens and Republicans."
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>If the "less-significant alliances with Republicnas and
>Greens"
> > >did
> > > > >not
> > > > > > >>determine the fact that the Campign had no National
>Program, No
> > > > >National
> > > > > > >>agenda, and was in fact an anti-democrat party united
>front which
> > > > > >included
> > > > > > >>republicans and at best very confused
> > > > > > >>greens, I would like to know what did. No discussion of the
> > > > >Presidential
> > > > > > >>election which was what was on every one's minds was firstly
> > > > >opportunist
> > > > > > >>(short term put ahead of long term) and secondly one of
>the main
> > > > >reasons
> > > > > > >>we
> > > > > > >>were defeated in November.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Again the charge of opportunism makes no sense. Paul
>claims U&S
> > >just
> > > > > >wants
> > > > > > >>to "dis the campaign" why? The majority of the U&S editors
>from
> > >put
> > > > > >blood
> > > > > > >>sweat and tears into the campaign, we all have a right to
>claim it
> > > >as
> > > > > >our
> > > > > > >>own. I am associated with its activities whether I like it
>or not,
> > > >my
> > > > > >name
> > > > > > >>appeared on all of its literature. It seems to me that you
>are
> > >just
> > > > >name
> > > > > > >>calling. Their is no basis to your charge of opportunism.
> > > > > > >>Paul, you have never put forward an analysis of why we
>lost the
> > > > > > >>election. Listening to you one would think that we won.
>You just
> > > > > > >>continually
> > > > > > >>talk about how much people liked your rap when you
>canvased them.
> > >I
> > > >do
> > > > > >not
> > > > > > >>doubt you are a fine canvaser but that is not the point.
> > > > > > >>Paul wrote:
> > > > > > >>"It?s precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current
> > >trends
> > > >in
> > > > > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem
>credible
> > >in
> > > > >this
> > > > > > >>ongoing debate."
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>What does this mean Paul.?  What are the  "current trends in
> > > > > > >>revolutionary practice" of which I am ignorant. Is there a
>new
> > >plan
> > > >to
> > > > > > >>raise
> > > > > > >>a million dollars from a great man of wealth who likes
>your ideas?
> > > >Or
> > > > > >are
> > > > > > >>we
> > > > > > >>just well on our way to raising the 15 grand necessary for the
> > > > >"People's
> > > > > > >>democratic community center office
> > > > > > >>space". Or is there just a "new" list serve without all those
> > >pesky
> > > > >msgs
> > > > > > >>which interfere with "work".
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>As to the final point, Paul wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>"Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our
>practice?"
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>This statement actually sheds light on the problem you are
>having.
> > > >You
> > > > > > >>have practice and theory seperated into two compartments.
>Practice
> > > >and
> > > > > > >>theory are not two different things. To talk about practice is
> > > >theory,
> > > > > >to
> > > > > > >>think about practice is theory.  The only time theory is
>absent is
> > > > >when
> > > > > > >>you
> > > > > > >>get into what Zen Buddhist call samdhi, or sports
>enthusiats refer
> > > >to
> > > > >as
> > > > > > >>the
> > > > > > >>"zone" . Theory is the crytalization of practical
>experience. To
> > > > >insist
> > > > > >on
> > > > > > >>prcatice without theory as many have or just do "work" is the
> > > >essence
> > > > >of
> > > > > > >>Social-Democracy. practice without theory has nothing to
>do with
> > > > > > >>revolution.
> > > > > > >>Nor does theory without prcatice.
> > > > > > >>So, how do we evaluate practice? with theory.
> > > > > > >>Social Democrats say "the movement is everything, the goal is
> > > >nothing"
> > > > > > >>That is what Bernstien sd. And it is that same idea that is
> > > >reflected
> > > > > >when
> > > > > > >>we hear the mantra "do work" repeated without discussion
>of what
> > > >work
> > > > > >for
> > > > > > >>what purpose to what ends.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Perhaps we would get farther if Paul and others who don't
>believe
> > > >any
> > > > > > >>mistakes weremade explain why we lost? (that would be a
> > >theoretical
> > > > >act)
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>I would propose the following questions to "evelauate our
> > >practice"
> > > > > > >>1. Why did we lose?
> > > > > > >>2. did we have a national program?
> > > > > > >>3. did we discuss the presidential election?
> > > > > > >>4. did we promote the slogan Beat Bush! Demand more from
>Gore,
> > >which
> > > > >all
> > > > > > >>revolutionaries agreed was the correct slogan
> > > > > > >>5. Why were people funneled into a pipe dream "office space"
> > >project
> > > > > >after
> > > > > > >>the November elections instead of remaining involved in
>electoral
> > > > > > >>politics?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>I don't propose thes as rhetorical questions if we can't
>agree on
> > > > > >answers
> > > > > > >>to
> > > > > > >>these questions we will never be able to achieve a unified
> > >analysis.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Keith
> > > > > >
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > >>nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > >nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >_________________________________________________________________
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> > > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1739
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-30 15:03:52
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:

you get yr head out of imaginary "office spaces" & into the community to 
learn to communicate.  the people understand more than you think.

cs


>From: shorepaulie@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:00:06 -0000
>
>I understand that,  but how do you say it to people who don't
>understand imperialism?
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > the people vs. imperialism
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: FBRIGHT123@a...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
> > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:01:56 EDT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >If you read my e-mail, I feel Joe is divisive on the BOE question.
>I said
> > >Marxism is not necessarily divisive. No need to get so hot under the
> > >collar,
> > >Cliff. Personal name calling is an irrational way of determining
>the proper
> > >perspective to have on an issue.
> > >
> > >The signatures you got were great. No one wants to take that away
>from you.
> > >Other work was done that year besides the BOE question, though.
> > >
> > >Lastly ... hey, why can't I have a beer and not be criticized?
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1740
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-30 15:12:05
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
Message:

au contraire,

because bright supports schundler in nb, he may very well be inclined to get 
close to his opponents.  what does he lose?

but how does bright help us beat schundler? rather he helps schundler w/ yr 
inviting him to peoples' organizations.

which is why the enemy is not welcome in peoples' organizations.

cliff


>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
>Date: Wed, 09 Jan 1980 15:33:40 -0500
>
>Joe,
>I misread your e-mail. You didn't make any connection to Shundler.
>
>But like you said the odds of Frank oppossing Shundler are 100 to 1. So he 
>won't join;
>so  we don't need to exclude him. That's my point.
>Keith
>
>joseph smith wrote:
>
> > i do not know where you get the connection of my points to schundler? 
>that
> > is not what i wrote.
> >
> > further more, where in the peoples' democratic united front is there 
>room
> > for republicans? especially when you propose that the immediate task of 
>our
> > united front be organized to bury the republicans.
> >
> > i would gladly accept any allies in this task, but bright will be of no
> > assistance. if he decided to work to bury schundler i don't see how he 
>would
> > affiliate with the republican party.
> >
> > let's just ask him.
> >
> > bright, do you support schundler? i'm layin 100 to 7 on yes - any 
>takers?
> >
> > joe
> >
> > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: Fwd: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
> > >Date: Wed, 09 Jan 1980 08:10:57 -0500
> > >
> > >Joe,
> > >If you think that the People's campaign registratiuon of any 
>republicans in
> > >New Brunswick had an effect on Shundler's victory.  I think that you 
>are
> > >mistaken.
> > >There are many reasons that Shundler won but your argument is mystical. 
>I
> > >have already fought to unite evryone in the People's Camapign and will
> > >continue to do so, but it has nothing to do with registering as a
> > >repoublican. I don't agree with purging anyone at the moment from the
> > >People's Campaign. I think that the People's Campaign must put the 
>defeat
> > >of Shundler on the top of its agends immediately or be a useless
> > >organization. If anyone doesn't like that, they can leave but I won't 
>purge
> > >them or advocate that they be purged.  If Frank wants to work for
> > >Shundler's defeat I will work with him, if he doesn't, I
> > >won't.
> > >      My line is principles of unity and work towards a democartic 
>program
> > >as the basis of unity. No one is purged or expelled who agrees with the
> > >principles and the program. To join or not to join is on them.
> > >      Purges are for a revolutionary organization not a mass based 
>united
> > >front. The line of purging from mass organizations is fallacious; it is 
>the
> > >same line that was upheld by the steering committeee of the People's
> > >Camapign. Joe only disagrees with who got purged but the line is wrong 
>in
> > >form and content.
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >joseph smith wrote:
> > >
> > > > no act of god can change these mistakes.
> > > > you should make the proposal that myself and others be reinstated 
>into
> > >the peoples' campaign and that the campaign purge itself of all 
>republicans
> > >immediately. and that the campaign apply its practical tasks around the
> > >surveys, that is the office space arguement.
> > > >
> > > > i am referring in my arguement with tom to the fact that the 
>republican
> > >party outside of new brunswick took notice of a couple of thousand 
>votes
> > >for registered republicans. do you not think this point is valid to 
>bring
> > >up? it is the first time it has been suggested that i know of. it is 
>also
> > >why bright was appointed to the housing authority.
> > > >
> > > > joe
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
> > > > >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: lknesta@...
> > > > >CC: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
> > > > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 00:57:20 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >Joe,
> > > > >I resigned my republican registration and I have also criticized 
>the
> > >actions and the political line. Yet, you constantly raise this point.
> > >Perhaps you would like to issue me with some pennance. I could do two 
>acts
> > >of contritions and 15 Our Fathers if that would be satisfactory.
> > > > >Please advise.
> > > > >Keith
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> > > > > >>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >>To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, nbpc@egroups.com,
> > > > > >>njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >>Subject: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
> > > > > >>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:04:06 -0400
> > > > > >>
> > funny, all those "peoples' democratic" candidates are registered
> > republicans.
> >
> > you play yourself, i just point it out.
> >
> > joe
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> >From: "Thomas DeGloma" <tdegloma@...>
> > > > > >> >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >> >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, nbpc@egroups.com,
> > > > > >>njfo@egroups.com
> > > > > >> >Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Shank Schundler! working 
>class
> > > > >base?
> > > > > >> >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:42:04 -0000
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > 
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@...
> > > > > >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > >njfo-unsubscribe@...
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >>
> > > > > ><< message3.txt >>
> > > > >
> > > > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > > >
> > > > To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@...
> > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>njfo-unsubscribe@...
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
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> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1741
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-30 15:41:46
Subject:Re: [nbpc] PLEASE FORWARD - NAZI THREAT IN HIGHLAND PARK
Message:

gd work, xavier. we stand ready.

& after the council meeting, join us 4pm, wed. 4 july for open speak-out for 
revolutionary democracy & confederate flag-burning/ voter reg for mcgreasy 
at nb feaster park.  pass it on.

ps- ras baraka for nwk city council '02 meets 7pm tuesdays for planning 
&9:30 am, saturdays for work, 808 so.10th st. nwk.

unite dont split.

cliff


>From: xavier.hansen@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] PLEASE FORWARD - NAZI THREAT IN HIGHLAND PARK
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 03:00:50 -0000
>
>PLEASE FORWARD TO ALL:
>
>NAZI THREAT IN HIGHLAND PARK
>
>      A racist gang of violent white supremacists has moved into
>Highland Park and physically threatened and assaulted several Afro-
>American residents. Neo-nazi thugs have allegedly operated from the
>home of a borough public official who reportedly sports a "WHITE
>POWER" tattoo and brags about illegally firing all black public
>employees from his department!
>
>A STRING OF VIOLENT RACIST ATTACKS
>
>      The much-delayed "investigation" by local authorities into the
>violent incidents that took place on South Tenth Street in April was
>a whitewash. Police Chief Ronald Haskins's report of May 9, 2001 only
>resulted in a couple of petty misdemeanor charges and denied any
>knowledge of a neo-nazi gang in our town.
>      Unconvinced by this official report, we, concerned residents,
>conducted over a dozen interviews with victims, witnesses, borough
>employees and public officials. Here are our findings:
>      Several residents of South Tenth Street report that beginning in
>March of this year, a gang of neo-nazi skinheads started "hanging
>out" at 233 South Tenth Street, home of Lloyd Young Sr.,
>Superintendent of Highland Park's Department of Public Works.
>      These white men in their late teens and early twenties numbered
>about half a dozen, wore black slacks, shirts and boots, shaved their
>heads and sported clothing and tattoos with neo-nazi symbols and
>racist slogans.
>      In at least four separate incidents in the past months,
>perpetrators fitting this description assaulted and harassed Afro-
>American residents.
>
>MARCH: A 36-year old Afro-American woman told at a recent meeting of
>Bridge Builders that she was physically assaulted in late March on
>Benner St. by a white skinhead dressed in black after she came out of
>Adams Bar.
>
>APRIL: On April 10, neighbors witnessed two white youths with shaved
>heads come out of 233 South Tenth Street and chase black youths while
>screaming death threats. One of the skinheads allegedly wielded a
>crow bar, the other a baseball bat. Police claim a stone was thrown
>at the house prior to this incident.
>
>APRIL: On April 11, several young black children allege that they
>were chased by threatening skinheads in black outfits.
>
>JUNE: Soon after Memorial Day, a young Afro-American woman reported
>that while she walked down Woodbridge Ave. she was surrounded and
>physically intimidated by a gang of white skinheads dressed in black
>who muttered threats at her.
>
>A WHITE SUPREMACIST BOROUGH OFFICIAL?
>
>      Neighbors contend that members of a neo-nazi skinhead gang have
>lived at the house of Lloyd Young Sr., including his son, Lloyd Young
>Jr., and his nephew, Walter Pawlikowski. Both men were charged on May
>9 with disorderly conduct along with Herbert T. Straub for the April
>10 altercation.
>      Mr. Young Sr. has been the chief official at the Department of
>Public Works for over 20 years. Co-workers and neighbors describe him
>as a virulently racist man who sports a "WHITE POWER" tattoo on his
>left arm. A former department employee also claims that several
>current employees also sport white supremacist tattoos.
>      According to two former borough employees, Mr. Young has
>repeatedly bragged about getting rid of all black workers in his
>department. The borough administrator, Richard Kunze, confirmed that
>THERE IS NOT A SINGLE BLACK, LATINO OR ASIAN EMPLOYEE LEFT IN
>HIGHLAND PARK'S DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS.
>
>A RACIST COVER-UP?
>
>      Lloyd Young Sr. -whose home, neighbors claim,  has housed neo-
>nazi skinheads- is on friendly terms with several local police
>officers. Two neighbors report that following a loud argument five
>years ago, they heard several shots coming from inside the house at
>233 South Tenth Street but that the police made no arrest.
>      Former borough employees also assert that Mr. Young was very
>active in the mayoral campaigns of former mayor and current Middlesex
>County Freeholder James Polos.
>      Neither the police nor the town's political leaders have shown
>the willingness to deal with this nazi threat openly. Worse, several
>neighboring Afro-American teenagers and their parents allege that
>Highland Park police told them not to walk on South Tenth Street to
>avoid trouble. THIS IS "JIM CROW" SEGREGATION IN OUR TOWN.
>      We cannot allow any resident to be told where they can or cannot
>go based on the color of their skin just because violent nazis live
>in the neighborhood.
>
>Victims, witnesses, neighbors and co-workers all spoke on the
>condition that their names not be used and said they have not pressed
>charges because they are scared of these neo-nazi thugs and do not
>trust that the police will protect them from retaliation.
>
>HIGHLAND PARK MUST SHOW
>ZERO TOLERANCE FOR
>WHITE SUPREMACIST CRIMINALS
>
>      We are not faced with a couple of isolated bigots but with an
>organized group of violent neo-nazi skinheads that may have a
>foothold in our own local government! In Germany, Hitler's Nazis also
>began with small groups of street thugs aided and abetted by corrupt
>bureaucrats and police officers. The Nazi Party then rose to power
>because the political leadership of Europe failed to act to stop it.
>We can never make that mistake again.
>
>
>      We demand an investigation into all alleged neo-nazi criminal
>activity in the borough and into all alleged civil rights violations
>in Highland Park's Department of Public Works.
>
>      We demand that any and all civil rights violators be prosecuted
>to the full extent of the law, as well as any and all public
>officials who failed to report civil rights violations known to them.
>
>      We demand the establishment of an elected civilian police
>control board to ensure that our police department protects and
>serves all people and prosecutes all civil rights violators, even if
>they hold positions of power in the government.
>
>SPEAK OUT AGAINST NEO-NAZI VIOLENCE!
>JOIN US AT THE NEXT BOROUGH COUNCIL MEETING
>TUESDAY JULY 10, 8PM
>
>If you have any information about neo-nazi activity or civil rights
>violations in Highland Park, please call us at (732) 729-0873 or send
>us an email at hp_peoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>
>HIGHLAND PARK PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN - (732) 729-0873
>Reach us on the internet at hp_peoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1742
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-30 17:55:23
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:

Cliff,

The undeniable attacks that Joe has made upon so many people point to the 
fact of his devisiveness. Clearly, the amount of votes the BOE question lost 
by is a fact of this.

Joe has little ability to rally support to a decisive end. Racial profing has 
been put on the back burner, the BOE question, the Revolutionary Worker's 
Party, etc. is a testament that people may come to Joe when he is on the 
right side of an issue but is turned off immediately thereafter.

Check it out.

Best







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1743
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-30 19:44:34
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:

onus your ass
you are a decorated member of the peoples' most aggressive enemie forces - 
you can't handle what i'm gunna put on ya, i gots my own flava ain't that 
right flavier?


>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 07:38:44 EDT
>
>
>Joe,
>
>You fail to propose a cogent response and, instead, sloganeered. I believe
>the onus is upon you.
>
>Best

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1744
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-06-30 19:55:37
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:

 The response is lost on me, Joe






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1745
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-06-30 20:00:16
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
Message:

that's right dim, you lose.

shank schundler/air out bright/elsenior/skunk

racist republicans you can't hide-
the people charge you with genocide!

joe

>From: FBRIGHT123@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Schundler! response
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:55:37 EDT
>
>  The response is lost on me, Joe

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1746
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-01 23:47:38
Subject:Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
Message:

curtis has never advocated anything but a republican agenda!!! thus, he has 
now sealed the deal in an open admission that he is and has been and will 
continue to be a member of the republican party. i have documents that prove 
since 1988 - so much for your arguements...
bout them apples??

shank schundler!
win the peoples' campaign to the people, dump bright/el senior/sinister 
ford!!

the streets are watching --
get on board w/july 4 event in new brunswick
burn confederate flag in front of 218 george street!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, 
register voters, promote greasy,
feaster park rally w/food, burn confederate flag2
fireworks provided by the city (burn another confederate flag3?)



>From: shorepaulie@...
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:29:05 -0000
>
>You can count me in the anti-republican crusade.  I resigned from the
>Repub committee last year and I'm changing my voter reg asap.
>
>About Joe's words:  No doubt, Joe, that the revolutionaries in the
>NBPC should have been more persistent with open revolutionary calls.
>But the NBPC itself wasn't a revolutionary org., you know that.
>
>But to say the platform wasn't revolutionary-democratic?????? Come on,
>now.  The platform was straight up community control and all for
>people's institutions. If that's not rev-dem, then why not?
>
>No doubt you guys consistently called for revolution, etc., but you
>guys weren't following Mao's 'On Handling Contradictions Among the
>People' when you viciously attacked Curtis for his ambiguous
>statements.  Curtis didn't back off the platform and he's never
>stopped advocating for revolutionary democracy, even if he wouldn't
>call it 'rev-dem', and, I would argue, even while supporting Rev.
>Soaries with respect to the church (Curtis has never openly supported
>Soaries-as-Republican).
>
>And in hindsight, it was a mistake to align with Bright.  Had we known
>better, we could have had independent poll workers.  And while Bright
>does sometimes advocate for the people of NB, and sometimes manages to
>stink up the machine, keeping the UF together with constant threat
>from the Right is part of the reason the NBPC is relatively inactive
>right now.  If we hadn't needed to organize against Frank's right wing
>attacks, we could have united and consolidated the left much more
>effectively after the election.
>
>You might want to conclude that inclusion of Frank made expulsion of
>BoL politically more possible.  That's easy to say, but it's wrong.
>
>I think BoL's expulsion had more to do with your letter (which was
>unprincipled and unprofessional political behavior) rather than
>attempts by NJFO and company to avoid revolutionary struggle.
>
>You gotta admit that letter you guys signed was against 'march
>separately, strike together', a slogan that all NBPC trends supported
>informally.  What ever happened to winning people over to your
>position through side-by-side struggle together, or by persuasive
>arguments that pick up the bucket where it's at?  That's where BoL
>makes its mistakes- not recognizing contradictions within the rev-dem
>movement as opportunities to win over your allies, but instead using
>differences (which are ususally limited in their political scope, I
>might add), as launching pads for your vitriol dressed in Amiriesque
>nicknames, and all-out attacks on your allies that forget about unity.
>
>That coincides with talking without listening, struggle without unity,
>and other trends that manifest themselves in meetings, in
>revolutionary literature, and especially in contentious conversations
>with individuals.  I think BoL needs to get serious about its personal
>and political conduct.  You criticize bannings and expulsions but you
>push your allies up against walls and badger them until they 'agree'
>with you.
>
>This all shows that we need new conventions about unity.  Our old
>conceptions of 'unity' come from our fight clubs not out of
>appreciation for the power of revolutionary alliances and the united
>front.
>
>When you say the BoL dominated the Outreach Committee, you're right.
>The Outreach Committee was the power base of BoL.  They yelled at
>everyone who wasn't BoL and generally acted in a hostile manner
>towards people who didn't show an ironclad commitment to canvassing.
>They did survey and canvass like the Dickens, but they did their best
>to alienate everyone else.
>
>When I think about cultural revolution, I think about these things.
>
>Paul
>
>--- In njfo@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > (re: paul)
> >
> > through seeing who is being organized to your positions and why.
> >
> > not so insignificant as you might think, uniting with republicans.
> > why don't you explain to jayson hankins and myself why you would
> > rather have fucbright on the steering committee than himself?
> >
> > i am not and never have been anti-nbpc, nor am i ultra-left.
> >
> > to claim that the nbpc represented the working class with a
>revolutionary
> > democratic program is a lie, lier. xavier and njfo members led the
>expulsion
> > of any open revolutionary democratic programs being organized in the
> > peoples' campaign. let alone the bankrupt attack and guttering of the
> > national election. since BOL and others from nb were/ARE expelled,
>there has
> > yet to be any open revolutionary programs put forward by the nbpc.
> >
> > yes the nbpc talked to thousands of nb working class residents
>through the
> > canvass which was organized by the outreach committee which was led
>by BOL.
> > the motorcade, the surveys, the picnic were all organized through the
> > outreach committee which was dominated by BOL. where is the outreach
> > committee now?, where is any public display of the nbpc?
> >
> > you never explained to the people that you were/ARE all registered
> > REPUBLICANS!
> >
> > as far as what % of the working class vote nbpc received, the losing %.
> >
> > Beat Bush!! Nix Nader!! sound familiar Flavier?
> >
> > if there is a working class base organized promoting revolutionary
> > democratic programs in nb, where is it? and how can SWORD get involved?
> >
> > why do we as revolutionaries build allainces? not to drop our OPEN
> > AND ABOVE BOARD revolutionary positions, but to further them. currently
> > there are more nb people agreeing with republican positions on public
> > housing than are agreeing with revolutionary democratic positions on
>public
> > housing. or is there not a difference??????????????????????
> >
> > nbpc recieved 1900+ votes for republican candidates for city
>council. how
> > many votes did nbpc receive for revolutionary democracy?
> >
> >                    000000
> >                   0      0
> >                  0        0
> >                 0          0
> >                 0          0
> >                 0          0
> >                  0        0
> >                   0      0
> >                    000000
> >
> > you can't play me
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: shorepaulie@h...
> > >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >>Subject: [nbpc] working class base?
> > >>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:58:06 -0000
> > >>
> > >>Matt wrote:  But the point is that we need
> > >> > to sort out ... why the campaign lacked a working class base.
> > >>
> > >>Paul writes:  Yea, I think that's the bottom line issue here.  Matthew
> > >>and others have contended that we didn't reach the working class with
> > >>the NBPC.  I can't think of many things farther from the truth.  I've
> > >>personally tried to convey this so many times....that we spoke with
> > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with community
> > >>control, down with the platform, down with democracy.
> > >>
> > >>As some may guess, many of these working class people whom I
> > >>personally met can talk the issues much better than some local
> > >>'organizers' and many of the 'advanced' who need to learn to listen.
> > >>
> > >>You say we didn't have a working class base, but the platform was
> > >>derived from conversation with mainly working class people.  The
> > >>tactics on canvass were derived mainly from conversations, that is,
> > >>informal agitation and propaganda among the broad mass of working
> > >>class people in NB.  We reinforced our emphases based on continued
> > >>interaction.  We had working class people out in the field, in our
> > >>meetings, working on election day, spreading the buzz of the NBPC,
>etc.
> > >>
> > >>But you may still say we lacked working class base.
> > >>
> > >>As a communist, I'll say that our most important job is to represent
> > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible.  I think my
> > >>arguments, which are well-honed now that I've repeated them so many
> > >>times, stand for themselves.  You can say my premises are wrong and my
> > >>experience non-scientific, but that's how I and others stand on the
> > >>campaign experience.
> > >>
> > >>As far as getting out the working class vote goes,  we don't yet know
> > >>what percentage of our vote was working class.  I think that deserves
> > >>much attention:  at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other night,
> > >>the NBPC was roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which
> > >>revolutionaries sold out their principles to form partnerships with
> > >>pro-Bush forces.
> > >>
> > >>That conclusion, embraced mainly by the far Left among us, ignores the
> > >>political experience of the campaign as it relates to the political
> > >>experience of the working class voters of NB.  To dismiss the campaign
> > >>on the grounds of two strategic alliances which barely affected
> > >>tactics is to ignore the largest question of progressive and
> > >>revolutionary politics....that is:   how do we mobilize the working
> > >>class and in doing that, what tasks are principal for pro-democratic
> > >>forces who would mobilize the political disfranchised classes. Any
> > >>analysis of these questions has to take practice into account. But
> > >>this type of practice was not on the agenda on Wednesday in Newark.
> > >>
> > >>If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it certainly
> > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who contend that
> > >>the campaign didn't have a working class base, that the campaign was
> > >>not revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without detailed
> > >>investigation.
> > >>
> > >>I don't think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened to to
> > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That's not only unprinicipled, but opportunist
> > >>because they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
> > >>revolutionary practice of the campaign.  This dissing of revolutionary
> > >>practice is predicated on the less-significant alliances formed with
> > >>Greens and Republicans.
> > >>
> > >>It's precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current trends in
> > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem credible in
> > >>this ongoing debate.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>I'm going to end with a question, because now I'm listening---
> > >>Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our practice?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Totally agreed that the movement needs "technicians and progressive
> > >> > professionsals...(look, i'm a college student studying to be an
> > >>architect
> > >> > which is about as technical  as you can get)  But the point is that
> > >>we need
> > >> > to sort out the question of what the United Front is, and why the
> > >>campaign
> > >> > lacked a working class base.
> > >> >
> > >> > Here's an anecdote: I was just working with this third-wrold
>grassroots
> > >> > coalition on building a full scale model house in the United
>Nations
> > >>for a
> > >> > convention on low-income housing.  After a week of working
>together,
> > >>I asked
> > >> > their leader, Jokin, an old Indian man, how I could join the
> > >>organization.
> > >> > He looked at me puzzled, and asked me, WHy do you ask how you can
> > >>join what
> > >> > you've already joined?!  That's the difference in the mode of
> > >>organizing,
> > >> > and it's a consciousness that comes *from* the grassroots,
>*not* the
> > >> > technical progressives.  & When I say that there is a dominant
> > >>tendancy, or
> > >> > ideology, that represents the "progressive professional" it doesn't
> > >>mean
> > >> > that you, Flavio, not needed (BTW I haven't had my court date
> > >>rescheduled
> > >> > yet ;)  ...it means that something else is lacking, and has
> > >>historically
> > >> > been so. And that is the working class.  & It is only with working
> > >>class
> > >> > consciousness that **revolutionary democracy** will not be
>compromised,
> > >> > because the W.C. doesn't have the option of "getting jobs" like so
> > >>many of
> > >> > our parents generation did......So it is *of necessity* that the
> > >>W.C. will
> > >> > ultimately inspire all of us progressive and revolutionary
> > >>technicians to
> > >> > get it together and participate in the construction of an
>actual United
> > >> > Front against this mess. and for democracy, by any means necessary.
> > >> >
> > >> > -Matt
> > >> >
> > >> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > >> > From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > >> > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >> > To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >> > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the Essence
> > >> > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:56:10 -0000
> > >> >
> > >> > It is my understanding that even Mao advocated that political
>leaders
> > >> > had to be both "red and expert," i.e. to understand both
>politics as
> > >> > well as more technical matters such as industry (or even law).
> > >> > Not "red and ignorant" or "red and alienating."  As he explained, a
> > >> > person with only a political line is "pseudo-red, empty-headedly
> > >> > political."
> > >> >
> > >> > The campaign needs technicians in its ranks.  I also believe
>that to
> > >> > be "advanced" one must have more than a class consciousness.  While
> > >> > petition signatures were being collected for the 2000 board of
>ed and
> > >> > municipal elections, some turkeys decided it would be
>permissible to
> > >> > get signatures from people living in _North_ Brunswick (which are
> > >> > invalid in a _New_ Brunswick election).  Just recently, some other
> > >> > turkeys on the other egroup advocated letters to USA Cleary asking
> > >> > him to "overturn" a judge's ruling nullifying a jury verdict (Can't
> > >> > happen because of separation of powers).  One point of the NBPC
> > >> > platform demands: "Pass rent control legislation to stop all rent
> > >> > increases except those necessary to preserve a fair rate of return
> > >> > for landlords' investments, such as to cover repairs and
>improvements
> > >> > to building by the owner, requiring the approval of a
>democratically-
> > >> > elected Rent Control Board and never to exceed cost of living
> > >> > increase for that year."  This is despite the fact that NB has just
> > >> > such a rent control ordinance, albeit one that is
> > >> > underenforced/unenforced and without vacancy control.
>Shouldn't the
> > >> > nonenforcement/vacancy control have been the emphasis of the rent
> > >> > point, rather than demanding something already on the books?
> > >> >
> > >> > I could go on but in sum, my question is: who is doing the
>technical
> > >> > homework on our political work and outreach?
> > >> >
> > >> > Credibility matters, whether we like it or not.  Part of
>credibility
> > >> > is technical accuracy.  (Proper grammar, spelling, and use of
>English
> > >> > capitalization rules also help, a point sorely lost on many of the
> > >> > purportedly "advanced" people who are using the other egroup).
> > >> > Technical accuracy and the precision of a message can be
>enhanced by
> > >> > welcoming progressives into the campaign who share the campaign's
> > >> > goals and who have the relevant technical and professional
> > >> > knowledge.  Indeed, if we are going to participate in electoral
> > >> > politics, I'd rather have the progressive technician who
>understands
> > >> > how to get our candidates' names on the ballot participating in,
> > >> > even "dominating" things, rather than the sloganeer whose can mouth
> > >> > a "purer" political consciousness than that of the progressive
> > >> > technician/professional.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> > >> >  > Kris-
> > >> >  >
> > >> >  > *My choice of phrasing "landlords & lawyer types", though not
> > >> > intended to be
> > >> >  > a put down, could be read as such.  I'll rephrase it more
> > >> > accurately & point
> > >> >  > out that the 'political line' of nbpcmembers is/has been
>dominated
> > >> > by the
> > >> >  > class consciousness of the 'progressive professional'.
> > >> >  >
> > >> >  > *From my observations, SWORD has been closer to the working
>class
> > >> > community
> > >> >  > on the street, irregardless of the criticisms that have been
>made
> > >> > against
> > >> >  > them.  At one time, the NBPB Coalition held that honor.  but
>NJFO
> > >> > has been
> > >> >  > historically campus/student oriented and while the NBPC had made
> > >> > inroads
> > >> >  > into the community, it's base is still vastly made up of
>students &
> > >> >  > graduates.
> > >> >  >
> > >> >  > *I'm unclear as to why you immmediately conclude that advocating
> > >> >  > 'revolutionary democracy' equates to "vicious, slanderous,
> > >> >  > negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering?"  I've consistantly
> > >> > criticized
> > >> >  > what I view to be 'ultra-leftist' tendencies and 'murder-mouth'
> > >> >  > sloganeering, but I refuse to give up my ideas and my
>experiences
> > >> > because
> > >> >  > I'm afraid I might be confused with someone else...I agree
>that it
> > >> > is time
> > >> >  > to move on and find a new basis for unity and not to keep
>beating
> > >> > the same
> > >> >  > old horse, but let the records note that I strongly feel that
> > >> > NJFO 'gave up'
> > >> >  > it's 'revolutionary democratic' *ideological conclusion*
>based on
> > >> > the hard
> > >> >  > fought and won experience of breaking out of the CU shell...in
> > >> > other words,
> > >> >  > the butterfly never left the branch.
> > >> >  >
> > >> >  > This is why I now feel that the most pressing issue *still*
>is the
> > >> > nature of
> > >> >  > revolutionary democracy* and how that is represented in a United
> > >> > Front. (I
> > >> >  > think we agree that we disagree on this, but precisely what
>are the
> > >> > points
> > >> >  > of contention. What do we agree on, and what do we disagree
>on in
> > >> > substance
> > >> >  > not form.  If I curse and you don't like that, it doesn't
>get any
> > >> > closer to
> > >> >  > the heart of the matter.  But if I scream at you or slander you
> > >> > because
> > >> >  > you're not revolutionary enough, then it does get to the heart
> > >> > because it
> > >> >  > shows that I'm not that interested in building unity with you. I
> > >> > think we
> > >> >  > can agree on this much. Now how does this play out...)
> > >> >  >
> > >> >  > * Two more things, and then I'll hang up and listen:
> > >> >  > 1. Please don't put words in my mouth and then compare them to
> > >> > those of
> > >> >  > "right-wing turds".
> > >> >  > 2. I also wish that I had thought of the idea to limit the # of
> > >> > postings to
> > >> >  > one-a-day 'back then'...for one thing, I was too preoccupied
>with
> > >> > my
> > >> >  > revelation that the peoples campaign was not acting as a United
> > >> > Front; that
> > >> >  > NJFO's president had a split with AB and was putting out a
>position
> > >> > against
> > >> >  > publishing U&S (no longer "March Seperately, Strike
>Together") to
> > >> > appease
> > >> >  > the Naderites, Republicans & Landlords; that folks were
>generally
> > >> > abandoning
> > >> >  > U&S as a collective organizer; and the big revalation that this
> > >> > tendency of
> > >> >  > bannings is just that: a tendency with a long history of
>trial and
> > >> > error
> > >> >  > with little to show for itself in terms of creating a 'pure'
>space
> > >> > for some
> > >> >  > kind of 'real' unity.
> > >> >  >
> > >> >  > Look , Kris, we all have a relatively long history together.
>  It's
> > >> > hard to
> > >> >  > have things shaken up as much as they have been.  But alot
>will be
> > >> >  > determined by how we approach our potential for the future,
> > >> > beginning on
> > >> >  > Wed. I'm glad to be a part of the bridge building.  See you
>then.
> > >> > Matt
> > >> >  >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >> > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > _________________________________________________________________
> > >> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1747
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-02 14:23:52
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
Message:

I worked with Curtis for 4 years, and I know that this statement by Joe is 
unequivically false.  -Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:47:38 -0400

curtis has never advocated anything but a republican agenda!!! thus, he has
now sealed the deal in an open admission that he is and has been and will
continue to be a member of the republican party. i have documents that prove
since 1988 - so much for your arguements...
bout them apples??

shank schundler!
win the peoples' campaign to the people, dump bright/el senior/sinister
ford!!

the streets are watching --
get on board w/july 4 event in new brunswick
burn confederate flag in front of 218 george street!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,
register voters, promote greasy,
feaster park rally w/food, burn confederate flag2
fireworks provided by the city (burn another confederate flag3?)



 >From: shorepaulie@...
 >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
 >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
 >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:29:05 -0000
 >
 >You can count me in the anti-republican crusade.  I resigned from the
 >Repub committee last year and I'm changing my voter reg asap.
 >
 >About Joe's words:  No doubt, Joe, that the revolutionaries in the
 >NBPC should have been more persistent with open revolutionary calls.
 >But the NBPC itself wasn't a revolutionary org., you know that.
 >
 >But to say the platform wasn't revolutionary-democratic?????? Come on,
 >now.  The platform was straight up community control and all for
 >people's institutions. If that's not rev-dem, then why not?
 >
 >No doubt you guys consistently called for revolution, etc., but you
 >guys weren't following Mao's 'On Handling Contradictions Among the
 >People' when you viciously attacked Curtis for his ambiguous
 >statements.  Curtis didn't back off the platform and he's never
 >stopped advocating for revolutionary democracy, even if he wouldn't
 >call it 'rev-dem', and, I would argue, even while supporting Rev.
 >Soaries with respect to the church (Curtis has never openly supported
 >Soaries-as-Republican).
 >
 >And in hindsight, it was a mistake to align with Bright.  Had we known
 >better, we could have had independent poll workers.  And while Bright
 >does sometimes advocate for the people of NB, and sometimes manages to
 >stink up the machine, keeping the UF together with constant threat
 >from the Right is part of the reason the NBPC is relatively inactive
 >right now.  If we hadn't needed to organize against Frank's right wing
 >attacks, we could have united and consolidated the left much more
 >effectively after the election.
 >
 >You might want to conclude that inclusion of Frank made expulsion of
 >BoL politically more possible.  That's easy to say, but it's wrong.
 >
 >I think BoL's expulsion had more to do with your letter (which was
 >unprincipled and unprofessional political behavior) rather than
 >attempts by NJFO and company to avoid revolutionary struggle.
 >
 >You gotta admit that letter you guys signed was against 'march
 >separately, strike together', a slogan that all NBPC trends supported
 >informally.  What ever happened to winning people over to your
 >position through side-by-side struggle together, or by persuasive
 >arguments that pick up the bucket where it's at?  That's where BoL
 >makes its mistakes- not recognizing contradictions within the rev-dem
 >movement as opportunities to win over your allies, but instead using
 >differences (which are ususally limited in their political scope, I
 >might add), as launching pads for your vitriol dressed in Amiriesque
 >nicknames, and all-out attacks on your allies that forget about unity.
 >
 >That coincides with talking without listening, struggle without unity,
 >and other trends that manifest themselves in meetings, in
 >revolutionary literature, and especially in contentious conversations
 >with individuals.  I think BoL needs to get serious about its personal
 >and political conduct.  You criticize bannings and expulsions but you
 >push your allies up against walls and badger them until they 'agree'
 >with you.
 >
 >This all shows that we need new conventions about unity.  Our old
 >conceptions of 'unity' come from our fight clubs not out of
 >appreciation for the power of revolutionary alliances and the united
 >front.
 >
 >When you say the BoL dominated the Outreach Committee, you're right.
 >The Outreach Committee was the power base of BoL.  They yelled at
 >everyone who wasn't BoL and generally acted in a hostile manner
 >towards people who didn't show an ironclad commitment to canvassing.
 >They did survey and canvass like the Dickens, but they did their best
 >to alienate everyone else.
 >
 >When I think about cultural revolution, I think about these things.
 >
 >Paul
 >
 >--- In njfo@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
 > > (re: paul)
 > >
 > > through seeing who is being organized to your positions and why.
 > >
 > > not so insignificant as you might think, uniting with republicans.
 > > why don't you explain to jayson hankins and myself why you would
 > > rather have fucbright on the steering committee than himself?
 > >
 > > i am not and never have been anti-nbpc, nor am i ultra-left.
 > >
 > > to claim that the nbpc represented the working class with a
 >revolutionary
 > > democratic program is a lie, lier. xavier and njfo members led the
 >expulsion
 > > of any open revolutionary democratic programs being organized in the
 > > peoples' campaign. let alone the bankrupt attack and guttering of the
 > > national election. since BOL and others from nb were/ARE expelled,
 >there has
 > > yet to be any open revolutionary programs put forward by the nbpc.
 > >
 > > yes the nbpc talked to thousands of nb working class residents
 >through the
 > > canvass which was organized by the outreach committee which was led
 >by BOL.
 > > the motorcade, the surveys, the picnic were all organized through the
 > > outreach committee which was dominated by BOL. where is the outreach
 > > committee now?, where is any public display of the nbpc?
 > >
 > > you never explained to the people that you were/ARE all registered
 > > REPUBLICANS!
 > >
 > > as far as what % of the working class vote nbpc received, the losing %.
 > >
 > > Beat Bush!! Nix Nader!! sound familiar Flavier?
 > >
 > > if there is a working class base organized promoting revolutionary
 > > democratic programs in nb, where is it? and how can SWORD get involved?
 > >
 > > why do we as revolutionaries build allainces? not to drop our OPEN
 > > AND ABOVE BOARD revolutionary positions, but to further them. currently
 > > there are more nb people agreeing with republican positions on public
 > > housing than are agreeing with revolutionary democratic positions on
 >public
 > > housing. or is there not a difference??????????????????????
 > >
 > > nbpc recieved 1900+ votes for republican candidates for city
 >council. how
 > > many votes did nbpc receive for revolutionary democracy?
 > >
 > >                    000000
 > >                   0      0
 > >                  0        0
 > >                 0          0
 > >                 0          0
 > >                 0          0
 > >                  0        0
 > >                   0      0
 > >                    000000
 > >
 > > you can't play me
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > >From: shorepaulie@h...
 > > >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > > >>Subject: [nbpc] working class base?
 > > >>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:58:06 -0000
 > > >>
 > > >>Matt wrote:  But the point is that we need
 > > >> > to sort out ... why the campaign lacked a working class base.
 > > >>
 > > >>Paul writes:  Yea, I think that's the bottom line issue here.  
Matthew
 > > >>and others have contended that we didn't reach the working class with
 > > >>the NBPC.  I can't think of many things farther from the truth.  I've
 > > >>personally tried to convey this so many times....that we spoke with
 > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with community
 > > >>control, down with the platform, down with democracy.
 > > >>
 > > >>As some may guess, many of these working class people whom I
 > > >>personally met can talk the issues much better than some local
 > > >>'organizers' and many of the 'advanced' who need to learn to listen.
 > > >>
 > > >>You say we didn't have a working class base, but the platform was
 > > >>derived from conversation with mainly working class people.  The
 > > >>tactics on canvass were derived mainly from conversations, that is,
 > > >>informal agitation and propaganda among the broad mass of working
 > > >>class people in NB.  We reinforced our emphases based on continued
 > > >>interaction.  We had working class people out in the field, in our
 > > >>meetings, working on election day, spreading the buzz of the NBPC,
 >etc.
 > > >>
 > > >>But you may still say we lacked working class base.
 > > >>
 > > >>As a communist, I'll say that our most important job is to represent
 > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible.  I think my
 > > >>arguments, which are well-honed now that I've repeated them so many
 > > >>times, stand for themselves.  You can say my premises are wrong and 
my
 > > >>experience non-scientific, but that's how I and others stand on the
 > > >>campaign experience.
 > > >>
 > > >>As far as getting out the working class vote goes,  we don't yet know
 > > >>what percentage of our vote was working class.  I think that deserves
 > > >>much attention:  at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other 
night,
 > > >>the NBPC was roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which
 > > >>revolutionaries sold out their principles to form partnerships with
 > > >>pro-Bush forces.
 > > >>
 > > >>That conclusion, embraced mainly by the far Left among us, ignores 
the
 > > >>political experience of the campaign as it relates to the political
 > > >>experience of the working class voters of NB.  To dismiss the 
campaign
 > > >>on the grounds of two strategic alliances which barely affected
 > > >>tactics is to ignore the largest question of progressive and
 > > >>revolutionary politics....that is:   how do we mobilize the working
 > > >>class and in doing that, what tasks are principal for pro-democratic
 > > >>forces who would mobilize the political disfranchised classes. Any
 > > >>analysis of these questions has to take practice into account. But
 > > >>this type of practice was not on the agenda on Wednesday in Newark.
 > > >>
 > > >>If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it certainly
 > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who contend 
that
 > > >>the campaign didn't have a working class base, that the campaign was
 > > >>not revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without detailed
 > > >>investigation.
 > > >>
 > > >>I don't think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened to to
 > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That's not only unprinicipled, but opportunist
 > > >>because they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
 > > >>revolutionary practice of the campaign.  This dissing of 
revolutionary
 > > >>practice is predicated on the less-significant alliances formed with
 > > >>Greens and Republicans.
 > > >>
 > > >>It's precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current trends in
 > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem credible in
 > > >>this ongoing debate.
 > > >>
 > > >>
 > > >>I'm going to end with a question, because now I'm listening---
 > > >>Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our practice?
 > > >>
 > > >>
 > > >>
 > > >>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
 > > >> >
 > > >> > Totally agreed that the movement needs "technicians and 
progressive
 > > >> > professionsals...(look, i'm a college student studying to be an
 > > >>architect
 > > >> > which is about as technical  as you can get)  But the point is 
that
 > > >>we need
 > > >> > to sort out the question of what the United Front is, and why the
 > > >>campaign
 > > >> > lacked a working class base.
 > > >> >
 > > >> > Here's an anecdote: I was just working with this third-wrold
 >grassroots
 > > >> > coalition on building a full scale model house in the United
 >Nations
 > > >>for a
 > > >> > convention on low-income housing.  After a week of working
 >together,
 > > >>I asked
 > > >> > their leader, Jokin, an old Indian man, how I could join the
 > > >>organization.
 > > >> > He looked at me puzzled, and asked me, WHy do you ask how you can
 > > >>join what
 > > >> > you've already joined?!  That's the difference in the mode of
 > > >>organizing,
 > > >> > and it's a consciousness that comes *from* the grassroots,
 >*not* the
 > > >> > technical progressives.  & When I say that there is a dominant
 > > >>tendancy, or
 > > >> > ideology, that represents the "progressive professional" it 
doesn't
 > > >>mean
 > > >> > that you, Flavio, not needed (BTW I haven't had my court date
 > > >>rescheduled
 > > >> > yet ;)  ...it means that something else is lacking, and has
 > > >>historically
 > > >> > been so. And that is the working class.  & It is only with working
 > > >>class
 > > >> > consciousness that **revolutionary democracy** will not be
 >compromised,
 > > >> > because the W.C. doesn't have the option of "getting jobs" like so
 > > >>many of
 > > >> > our parents generation did......So it is *of necessity* that the
 > > >>W.C. will
 > > >> > ultimately inspire all of us progressive and revolutionary
 > > >>technicians to
 > > >> > get it together and participate in the construction of an
 >actual United
 > > >> > Front against this mess. and for democracy, by any means 
necessary.
 > > >> >
 > > >> > -Matt
 > > >> >
 > > >> > ----Original Message Follows----
 > > >> > From: Groovemeister007@y...
 > > >> > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
 > > >> > To: nbpcmembers@y...
 > > >> > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the 
Essence
 > > >> > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:56:10 -0000
 > > >> >
 > > >> > It is my understanding that even Mao advocated that political
 >leaders
 > > >> > had to be both "red and expert," i.e. to understand both
 >politics as
 > > >> > well as more technical matters such as industry (or even law).
 > > >> > Not "red and ignorant" or "red and alienating."  As he explained, 
a
 > > >> > person with only a political line is "pseudo-red, empty-headedly
 > > >> > political."
 > > >> >
 > > >> > The campaign needs technicians in its ranks.  I also believe
 >that to
 > > >> > be "advanced" one must have more than a class consciousness.  
While
 > > >> > petition signatures were being collected for the 2000 board of
 >ed and
 > > >> > municipal elections, some turkeys decided it would be
 >permissible to
 > > >> > get signatures from people living in _North_ Brunswick (which are
 > > >> > invalid in a _New_ Brunswick election).  Just recently, some other
 > > >> > turkeys on the other egroup advocated letters to USA Cleary asking
 > > >> > him to "overturn" a judge's ruling nullifying a jury verdict 
(Can't
 > > >> > happen because of separation of powers).  One point of the NBPC
 > > >> > platform demands: "Pass rent control legislation to stop all rent
 > > >> > increases except those necessary to preserve a fair rate of return
 > > >> > for landlords' investments, such as to cover repairs and
 >improvements
 > > >> > to building by the owner, requiring the approval of a
 >democratically-
 > > >> > elected Rent Control Board and never to exceed cost of living
 > > >> > increase for that year."  This is despite the fact that NB has 
just
 > > >> > such a rent control ordinance, albeit one that is
 > > >> > underenforced/unenforced and without vacancy control.
 >Shouldn't the
 > > >> > nonenforcement/vacancy control have been the emphasis of the rent
 > > >> > point, rather than demanding something already on the books?
 > > >> >
 > > >> > I could go on but in sum, my question is: who is doing the
 >technical
 > > >> > homework on our political work and outreach?
 > > >> >
 > > >> > Credibility matters, whether we like it or not.  Part of
 >credibility
 > > >> > is technical accuracy.  (Proper grammar, spelling, and use of
 >English
 > > >> > capitalization rules also help, a point sorely lost on many of the
 > > >> > purportedly "advanced" people who are using the other egroup).
 > > >> > Technical accuracy and the precision of a message can be
 >enhanced by
 > > >> > welcoming progressives into the campaign who share the campaign's
 > > >> > goals and who have the relevant technical and professional
 > > >> > knowledge.  Indeed, if we are going to participate in electoral
 > > >> > politics, I'd rather have the progressive technician who
 >understands
 > > >> > how to get our candidates' names on the ballot participating in,
 > > >> > even "dominating" things, rather than the sloganeer whose can 
mouth
 > > >> > a "purer" political consciousness than that of the progressive
 > > >> > technician/professional.
 > > >> >
 > > >> >
 > > >> >
 > > >> >
 > > >> > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
 > > >> >  > Kris-
 > > >> >  >
 > > >> >  > *My choice of phrasing "landlords & lawyer types", though not
 > > >> > intended to be
 > > >> >  > a put down, could be read as such.  I'll rephrase it more
 > > >> > accurately & point
 > > >> >  > out that the 'political line' of nbpcmembers is/has been
 >dominated
 > > >> > by the
 > > >> >  > class consciousness of the 'progressive professional'.
 > > >> >  >
 > > >> >  > *From my observations, SWORD has been closer to the working
 >class
 > > >> > community
 > > >> >  > on the street, irregardless of the criticisms that have been
 >made
 > > >> > against
 > > >> >  > them.  At one time, the NBPB Coalition held that honor.  but
 >NJFO
 > > >> > has been
 > > >> >  > historically campus/student oriented and while the NBPC had 
made
 > > >> > inroads
 > > >> >  > into the community, it's base is still vastly made up of
 >students &
 > > >> >  > graduates.
 > > >> >  >
 > > >> >  > *I'm unclear as to why you immmediately conclude that 
advocating
 > > >> >  > 'revolutionary democracy' equates to "vicious, slanderous,
 > > >> >  > negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering?"  I've consistantly
 > > >> > criticized
 > > >> >  > what I view to be 'ultra-leftist' tendencies and 'murder-mouth'
 > > >> >  > sloganeering, but I refuse to give up my ideas and my
 >experiences
 > > >> > because
 > > >> >  > I'm afraid I might be confused with someone else...I agree
 >that it
 > > >> > is time
 > > >> >  > to move on and find a new basis for unity and not to keep
 >beating
 > > >> > the same
 > > >> >  > old horse, but let the records note that I strongly feel that
 > > >> > NJFO 'gave up'
 > > >> >  > it's 'revolutionary democratic' *ideological conclusion*
 >based on
 > > >> > the hard
 > > >> >  > fought and won experience of breaking out of the CU shell...in
 > > >> > other words,
 > > >> >  > the butterfly never left the branch.
 > > >> >  >
 > > >> >  > This is why I now feel that the most pressing issue *still*
 >is the
 > > >> > nature of
 > > >> >  > revolutionary democracy* and how that is represented in a 
United
 > > >> > Front. (I
 > > >> >  > think we agree that we disagree on this, but precisely what
 >are the
 > > >> > points
 > > >> >  > of contention. What do we agree on, and what do we disagree
 >on in
 > > >> > substance
 > > >> >  > not form.  If I curse and you don't like that, it doesn't
 >get any
 > > >> > closer to
 > > >> >  > the heart of the matter.  But if I scream at you or slander you
 > > >> > because
 > > >> >  > you're not revolutionary enough, then it does get to the heart
 > > >> > because it
 > > >> >  > shows that I'm not that interested in building unity with you. 
I
 > > >> > think we
 > > >> >  > can agree on this much. Now how does this play out...)
 > > >> >  >
 > > >> >  > * Two more things, and then I'll hang up and listen:
 > > >> >  > 1. Please don't put words in my mouth and then compare them to
 > > >> > those of
 > > >> >  > "right-wing turds".
 > > >> >  > 2. I also wish that I had thought of the idea to limit the # of
 > > >> > postings to
 > > >> >  > one-a-day 'back then'...for one thing, I was too preoccupied
 >with
 > > >> > my
 > > >> >  > revelation that the peoples campaign was not acting as a United
 > > >> > Front; that
 > > >> >  > NJFO's president had a split with AB and was putting out a
 >position
 > > >> > against
 > > >> >  > publishing U&S (no longer "March Seperately, Strike
 >Together") to
 > > >> > appease
 > > >> >  > the Naderites, Republicans & Landlords; that folks were
 >generally
 > > >> > abandoning
 > > >> >  > U&S as a collective organizer; and the big revalation that this
 > > >> > tendency of
 > > >> >  > bannings is just that: a tendency with a long history of
 >trial and
 > > >> > error
 > > >> >  > with little to show for itself in terms of creating a 'pure'
 >space
 > > >> > for some
 > > >> >  > kind of 'real' unity.
 > > >> >  >
 > > >> >  > Look , Kris, we all have a relatively long history together.
 >  It's
 > > >> > hard to
 > > >> >  > have things shaken up as much as they have been.  But alot
 >will be
 > > >> >  > determined by how we approach our potential for the future,
 > > >> > beginning on
 > > >> >  > Wed. I'm glad to be a part of the bridge building.  See you
 >then.
 > > >> > Matt
 > > >> >  >
 > > >> >
 > > >> >
 > > >> >
 > > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 > > >> > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
 > > >> >
 > > >> >
 > > >> >
 > > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 > > >> >
 > > >> >
 > > >> >
 > > >> > _________________________________________________________________
 > > >> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 > > >>
 > > >
 > >
 > > _________________________________________________________________
 > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 >

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1748
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-02 15:21:36
Subject:Fwd: [FAIR-L] Why Wasn't Kissinger Asked About War Crimes Charges?
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: FAIR-L <FAIR-L@...>
Reply-To: fair-l-request@...
To: FAIR-L@...
Subject: [FAIR-L] Why Wasn't Kissinger Asked About War Crimes Charges?
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:30:01 -0400

                                  FAIR-L
                     Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting
                Media analysis, critiques and news reports





ACTION ALERT: Why Wasn't Kissinger Asked About War Crimes Charges?

June 29, 2001

Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was summoned last month to appear
at the French Palace of Justice to answer questions about murders and
disappearances in Chile in the 1970s. While the story was carried by major
European news outlets, it has received relatively little coverage in U.S.
media.

French authorities wanted to ask Kissinger, who was visiting Paris, about
Operation Condor, the terror network set up by the governments of Chile,
Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, Ecuador and Bolivia. Evidence that the
U.S. government was aware of and lent support to Operation Condor has been
available for years (see The Nation, 8/9-16/99; New York Times, 3/6/01). The
French magistrate who summoned Kissinger was particularly interested in what
light he might shed on the disappearances of five French nationals who
disappeared in Chile during or shortly after the U.S.-supported coup there
in 1973.

But the French courts would learn nothing from Kissinger, who left town the
day after being summoned without answering any questions.

After the episode in France, Kissinger did a lengthy, one-on-one interview
with PBS's Charlie Rose (6/20/01). Kissinger also appeared alone with CNN's
Wolf Blitzer (6/21/01) and Fox News Channel's Paula Zahn (6/13/01). None of
the interviews even mentioned the French attempt to question Kissinger about
human rights abuses. Nor did any of the journalists bring up the question of
whether Kissinger might be indictable on war crimes charges, as journalist
Christopher Hitchens argued in a two-part Harper's magazine article (2/01,
3/01).

Was there an agreement that the interviewers would avoid raising such
uncomfortable issues for Kissinger? Charlie Rose was recently accused of
making such an agreement with Roger Ailes, the chairman of Fox News Channel.
In an interview with the New York Times Magazine (6/24/01), Ailes claimed
that he had written assurance from Rose that he would not be asked about
"politics" during his May 22 interview.  Yvette Vega, the executive producer
for the Charlie Rose Show, told FAIR that she was unaware of any such deal
with Ailes.

But Kissinger himself seemed to have this kind of agreement with the
National Press Club in Washington, DC, where Kissinger spoke on June 21.
Noting that none of the questions asked of Kissinger, chosen from written
questions submitted by the audience, dealt with war crimes or human rights
investigations, journalists Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman asked Press
Club moderator Richard Koonce if there was some sort of arrangement to avoid
these topics.

According to Mokhiber and Weissman, Koonce explained that there was a
"definite sensitivity" to those kinds of questions, and that Kissinger "was
afraid that if we got into a discussion of that, for the vast majority of
people that, it would take so much time to explain all of the context, that,
you know, he preferred to avoid that."

Which raises the question: If a former Secretary of State receiving a
summons about his knowledge of murder, torture and disappearances is not
news, then what is?


ACTION: Please contact Charlie Rose and ask why he failed to ask Henry
Kissinger about the newsworthy issues of human rights investigations and war
crimes charges. You might also contact the National Press Club to voice your
disappointment that journalists were not allowed to press Kissinger on these
matters.


CONTACT:

The Charlie Rose Show
mailto:charlierose@...
Phone: 212-940-1600

National Press Club
Melinda Cooke, Assistant to Club President Dick Ryan
mailto:mcooke@...
Fax: 202-662-7537


As always, please remember that your comments are taken more seriously if
you maintain a polite tone. Please cc fair@... with your
correspondence.


Read Mokhiber and Weissman's column, "Censorship at the National Press
Club," at:
http://lists.essential.org/pipermail/corp-focus/2001/000077.html

Read "The Fugitive" by Christopher Hitchens (The Nation, 6/25/01)
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20010625&s=hitchens

                                ----------

Feel free to respond to FAIR ( fair@... ). We can't reply to
everything, but we will look at each message. We especially appreciate
documented example of media bias or censorship. And please send copies of
your email correspondence with media outlets, including any responses, to us
at: fair@... .

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1749
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-02 18:41:03
Subject:Shank Schundler! working class base?
Message:

don't speak too soon matt, ask keith and ask curtis himself. i can produce 
my evidence, you better have your explanation for the people as to why you 
are so tight with el senior. your good word don't amount to a hill'a beans 
papi.

further- matt, curtis is a member of the republican party, how could one 
advocate anything but republican positions from such a base?

your whole practice of latching on to one "spokesperson" and disregarding 
the entire community is now coming full circle. what shall we learn? what 
shall we learn?

further2- where are the articles for the next U&S issue and what can i do to 
facilitate putting out the issue?

joe

>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:23:52
>
>I worked with Curtis for 4 years, and I know that this statement by Joe is
>unequivically false.  -Matt
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:47:38 -0400
>
>curtis has never advocated anything but a republican agenda!!! thus, he has
>now sealed the deal in an open admission that he is and has been and will
>continue to be a member of the republican party. i have documents that 
>prove
>since 1988 - so much for your arguements...
>bout them apples??
>
>shank schundler!
>win the peoples' campaign to the people, dump bright/el senior/sinister
>ford!!
>
>the streets are watching --
>get on board w/july 4 event in new brunswick
>burn confederate flag in front of 218 george street!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,
>register voters, promote greasy,
>feaster park rally w/food, burn confederate flag2
>fireworks provided by the city (burn another confederate flag3?)
>
>
>
>  >From: shorepaulie@...
>  >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>  >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:29:05 -0000
>  >
>  >You can count me in the anti-republican crusade.  I resigned from the
>  >Repub committee last year and I'm changing my voter reg asap.
>  >
>  >About Joe's words:  No doubt, Joe, that the revolutionaries in the
>  >NBPC should have been more persistent with open revolutionary calls.
>  >But the NBPC itself wasn't a revolutionary org., you know that.
>  >
>  >But to say the platform wasn't revolutionary-democratic?????? Come on,
>  >now.  The platform was straight up community control and all for
>  >people's institutions. If that's not rev-dem, then why not?
>  >
>  >No doubt you guys consistently called for revolution, etc., but you
>  >guys weren't following Mao's 'On Handling Contradictions Among the
>  >People' when you viciously attacked Curtis for his ambiguous
>  >statements.  Curtis didn't back off the platform and he's never
>  >stopped advocating for revolutionary democracy, even if he wouldn't
>  >call it 'rev-dem', and, I would argue, even while supporting Rev.
>  >Soaries with respect to the church (Curtis has never openly supported
>  >Soaries-as-Republican).
>  >
>  >And in hindsight, it was a mistake to align with Bright.  Had we known
>  >better, we could have had independent poll workers.  And while Bright
>  >does sometimes advocate for the people of NB, and sometimes manages to
>  >stink up the machine, keeping the UF together with constant threat
>  >from the Right is part of the reason the NBPC is relatively inactive
>  >right now.  If we hadn't needed to organize against Frank's right wing
>  >attacks, we could have united and consolidated the left much more
>  >effectively after the election.
>  >
>  >You might want to conclude that inclusion of Frank made expulsion of
>  >BoL politically more possible.  That's easy to say, but it's wrong.
>  >
>  >I think BoL's expulsion had more to do with your letter (which was
>  >unprincipled and unprofessional political behavior) rather than
>  >attempts by NJFO and company to avoid revolutionary struggle.
>  >
>  >You gotta admit that letter you guys signed was against 'march
>  >separately, strike together', a slogan that all NBPC trends supported
>  >informally.  What ever happened to winning people over to your
>  >position through side-by-side struggle together, or by persuasive
>  >arguments that pick up the bucket where it's at?  That's where BoL
>  >makes its mistakes- not recognizing contradictions within the rev-dem
>  >movement as opportunities to win over your allies, but instead using
>  >differences (which are ususally limited in their political scope, I
>  >might add), as launching pads for your vitriol dressed in Amiriesque
>  >nicknames, and all-out attacks on your allies that forget about unity.
>  >
>  >That coincides with talking without listening, struggle without unity,
>  >and other trends that manifest themselves in meetings, in
>  >revolutionary literature, and especially in contentious conversations
>  >with individuals.  I think BoL needs to get serious about its personal
>  >and political conduct.  You criticize bannings and expulsions but you
>  >push your allies up against walls and badger them until they 'agree'
>  >with you.
>  >
>  >This all shows that we need new conventions about unity.  Our old
>  >conceptions of 'unity' come from our fight clubs not out of
>  >appreciation for the power of revolutionary alliances and the united
>  >front.
>  >
>  >When you say the BoL dominated the Outreach Committee, you're right.
>  >The Outreach Committee was the power base of BoL.  They yelled at
>  >everyone who wasn't BoL and generally acted in a hostile manner
>  >towards people who didn't show an ironclad commitment to canvassing.
>  >They did survey and canvass like the Dickens, but they did their best
>  >to alienate everyone else.
>  >
>  >When I think about cultural revolution, I think about these things.
>  >
>  >Paul
>  >
>  >--- In njfo@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>  > > (re: paul)
>  > >
>  > > through seeing who is being organized to your positions and why.
>  > >
>  > > not so insignificant as you might think, uniting with republicans.
>  > > why don't you explain to jayson hankins and myself why you would
>  > > rather have fucbright on the steering committee than himself?
>  > >
>  > > i am not and never have been anti-nbpc, nor am i ultra-left.
>  > >
>  > > to claim that the nbpc represented the working class with a
>  >revolutionary
>  > > democratic program is a lie, lier. xavier and njfo members led the
>  >expulsion
>  > > of any open revolutionary democratic programs being organized in the
>  > > peoples' campaign. let alone the bankrupt attack and guttering of the
>  > > national election. since BOL and others from nb were/ARE expelled,
>  >there has
>  > > yet to be any open revolutionary programs put forward by the nbpc.
>  > >
>  > > yes the nbpc talked to thousands of nb working class residents
>  >through the
>  > > canvass which was organized by the outreach committee which was led
>  >by BOL.
>  > > the motorcade, the surveys, the picnic were all organized through the
>  > > outreach committee which was dominated by BOL. where is the outreach
>  > > committee now?, where is any public display of the nbpc?
>  > >
>  > > you never explained to the people that you were/ARE all registered
>  > > REPUBLICANS!
>  > >
>  > > as far as what % of the working class vote nbpc received, the losing 
>%.
>  > >
>  > > Beat Bush!! Nix Nader!! sound familiar Flavier?
>  > >
>  > > if there is a working class base organized promoting revolutionary
>  > > democratic programs in nb, where is it? and how can SWORD get 
>involved?
>  > >
>  > > why do we as revolutionaries build allainces? not to drop our OPEN
>  > > AND ABOVE BOARD revolutionary positions, but to further them. 
>currently
>  > > there are more nb people agreeing with republican positions on public
>  > > housing than are agreeing with revolutionary democratic positions on
>  >public
>  > > housing. or is there not a difference??????????????????????
>  > >
>  > > nbpc recieved 1900+ votes for republican candidates for city
>  >council. how
>  > > many votes did nbpc receive for revolutionary democracy?
>  > >
>  > >                    000000
>  > >                   0      0
>  > >                  0        0
>  > >                 0          0
>  > >                 0          0
>  > >                 0          0
>  > >                  0        0
>  > >                   0      0
>  > >                    000000
>  > >
>  > > you can't play me
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > >From: shorepaulie@h...
>  > > >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > > >>Subject: [nbpc] working class base?
>  > > >>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:58:06 -0000
>  > > >>
>  > > >>Matt wrote:  But the point is that we need
>  > > >> > to sort out ... why the campaign lacked a working class base.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>Paul writes:  Yea, I think that's the bottom line issue here.
>Matthew
>  > > >>and others have contended that we didn't reach the working class 
>with
>  > > >>the NBPC.  I can't think of many things farther from the truth.  
>I've
>  > > >>personally tried to convey this so many times....that we spoke with
>  > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with community
>  > > >>control, down with the platform, down with democracy.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>As some may guess, many of these working class people whom I
>  > > >>personally met can talk the issues much better than some local
>  > > >>'organizers' and many of the 'advanced' who need to learn to 
>listen.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>You say we didn't have a working class base, but the platform was
>  > > >>derived from conversation with mainly working class people.  The
>  > > >>tactics on canvass were derived mainly from conversations, that is,
>  > > >>informal agitation and propaganda among the broad mass of working
>  > > >>class people in NB.  We reinforced our emphases based on continued
>  > > >>interaction.  We had working class people out in the field, in our
>  > > >>meetings, working on election day, spreading the buzz of the NBPC,
>  >etc.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>But you may still say we lacked working class base.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>As a communist, I'll say that our most important job is to 
>represent
>  > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible.  I think my
>  > > >>arguments, which are well-honed now that I've repeated them so many
>  > > >>times, stand for themselves.  You can say my premises are wrong and
>my
>  > > >>experience non-scientific, but that's how I and others stand on the
>  > > >>campaign experience.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>As far as getting out the working class vote goes,  we don't yet 
>know
>  > > >>what percentage of our vote was working class.  I think that 
>deserves
>  > > >>much attention:  at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other
>night,
>  > > >>the NBPC was roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which
>  > > >>revolutionaries sold out their principles to form partnerships with
>  > > >>pro-Bush forces.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>That conclusion, embraced mainly by the far Left among us, ignores
>the
>  > > >>political experience of the campaign as it relates to the political
>  > > >>experience of the working class voters of NB.  To dismiss the
>campaign
>  > > >>on the grounds of two strategic alliances which barely affected
>  > > >>tactics is to ignore the largest question of progressive and
>  > > >>revolutionary politics....that is:   how do we mobilize the working
>  > > >>class and in doing that, what tasks are principal for 
>pro-democratic
>  > > >>forces who would mobilize the political disfranchised classes. Any
>  > > >>analysis of these questions has to take practice into account. But
>  > > >>this type of practice was not on the agenda on Wednesday in Newark.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it certainly
>  > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who contend
>that
>  > > >>the campaign didn't have a working class base, that the campaign 
>was
>  > > >>not revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without detailed
>  > > >>investigation.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>I don't think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened to to
>  > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That's not only unprinicipled, but opportunist
>  > > >>because they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
>  > > >>revolutionary practice of the campaign.  This dissing of
>revolutionary
>  > > >>practice is predicated on the less-significant alliances formed 
>with
>  > > >>Greens and Republicans.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>It's precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current trends 
>in
>  > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem credible in
>  > > >>this ongoing debate.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>
>  > > >>I'm going to end with a question, because now I'm listening---
>  > > >>Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our practice?
>  > > >>
>  > > >>
>  > > >>
>  > > >>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> 
>wrote:
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > Totally agreed that the movement needs "technicians and
>progressive
>  > > >> > professionsals...(look, i'm a college student studying to be an
>  > > >>architect
>  > > >> > which is about as technical  as you can get)  But the point is
>that
>  > > >>we need
>  > > >> > to sort out the question of what the United Front is, and why 
>the
>  > > >>campaign
>  > > >> > lacked a working class base.
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > Here's an anecdote: I was just working with this third-wrold
>  >grassroots
>  > > >> > coalition on building a full scale model house in the United
>  >Nations
>  > > >>for a
>  > > >> > convention on low-income housing.  After a week of working
>  >together,
>  > > >>I asked
>  > > >> > their leader, Jokin, an old Indian man, how I could join the
>  > > >>organization.
>  > > >> > He looked at me puzzled, and asked me, WHy do you ask how you 
>can
>  > > >>join what
>  > > >> > you've already joined?!  That's the difference in the mode of
>  > > >>organizing,
>  > > >> > and it's a consciousness that comes *from* the grassroots,
>  >*not* the
>  > > >> > technical progressives.  & When I say that there is a dominant
>  > > >>tendancy, or
>  > > >> > ideology, that represents the "progressive professional" it
>doesn't
>  > > >>mean
>  > > >> > that you, Flavio, not needed (BTW I haven't had my court date
>  > > >>rescheduled
>  > > >> > yet ;)  ...it means that something else is lacking, and has
>  > > >>historically
>  > > >> > been so. And that is the working class.  & It is only with 
>working
>  > > >>class
>  > > >> > consciousness that **revolutionary democracy** will not be
>  >compromised,
>  > > >> > because the W.C. doesn't have the option of "getting jobs" like 
>so
>  > > >>many of
>  > > >> > our parents generation did......So it is *of necessity* that the
>  > > >>W.C. will
>  > > >> > ultimately inspire all of us progressive and revolutionary
>  > > >>technicians to
>  > > >> > get it together and participate in the construction of an
>  >actual United
>  > > >> > Front against this mess. and for democracy, by any means
>necessary.
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > -Matt
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > ----Original Message Follows----
>  > > >> > From: Groovemeister007@y...
>  > > >> > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  > > >> > To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  > > >> > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the
>Essence
>  > > >> > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:56:10 -0000
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > It is my understanding that even Mao advocated that political
>  >leaders
>  > > >> > had to be both "red and expert," i.e. to understand both
>  >politics as
>  > > >> > well as more technical matters such as industry (or even law).
>  > > >> > Not "red and ignorant" or "red and alienating."  As he 
>explained,
>a
>  > > >> > person with only a political line is "pseudo-red, empty-headedly
>  > > >> > political."
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > The campaign needs technicians in its ranks.  I also believe
>  >that to
>  > > >> > be "advanced" one must have more than a class consciousness.
>While
>  > > >> > petition signatures were being collected for the 2000 board of
>  >ed and
>  > > >> > municipal elections, some turkeys decided it would be
>  >permissible to
>  > > >> > get signatures from people living in _North_ Brunswick (which 
>are
>  > > >> > invalid in a _New_ Brunswick election).  Just recently, some 
>other
>  > > >> > turkeys on the other egroup advocated letters to USA Cleary 
>asking
>  > > >> > him to "overturn" a judge's ruling nullifying a jury verdict
>(Can't
>  > > >> > happen because of separation of powers).  One point of the NBPC
>  > > >> > platform demands: "Pass rent control legislation to stop all 
>rent
>  > > >> > increases except those necessary to preserve a fair rate of 
>return
>  > > >> > for landlords' investments, such as to cover repairs and
>  >improvements
>  > > >> > to building by the owner, requiring the approval of a
>  >democratically-
>  > > >> > elected Rent Control Board and never to exceed cost of living
>  > > >> > increase for that year."  This is despite the fact that NB has
>just
>  > > >> > such a rent control ordinance, albeit one that is
>  > > >> > underenforced/unenforced and without vacancy control.
>  >Shouldn't the
>  > > >> > nonenforcement/vacancy control have been the emphasis of the 
>rent
>  > > >> > point, rather than demanding something already on the books?
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > I could go on but in sum, my question is: who is doing the
>  >technical
>  > > >> > homework on our political work and outreach?
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > Credibility matters, whether we like it or not.  Part of
>  >credibility
>  > > >> > is technical accuracy.  (Proper grammar, spelling, and use of
>  >English
>  > > >> > capitalization rules also help, a point sorely lost on many of 
>the
>  > > >> > purportedly "advanced" people who are using the other egroup).
>  > > >> > Technical accuracy and the precision of a message can be
>  >enhanced by
>  > > >> > welcoming progressives into the campaign who share the 
>campaign's
>  > > >> > goals and who have the relevant technical and professional
>  > > >> > knowledge.  Indeed, if we are going to participate in electoral
>  > > >> > politics, I'd rather have the progressive technician who
>  >understands
>  > > >> > how to get our candidates' names on the ballot participating in,
>  > > >> > even "dominating" things, rather than the sloganeer whose can
>mouth
>  > > >> > a "purer" political consciousness than that of the progressive
>  > > >> > technician/professional.
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
>  > > >> >  > Kris-
>  > > >> >  >
>  > > >> >  > *My choice of phrasing "landlords & lawyer types", though not
>  > > >> > intended to be
>  > > >> >  > a put down, could be read as such.  I'll rephrase it more
>  > > >> > accurately & point
>  > > >> >  > out that the 'political line' of nbpcmembers is/has been
>  >dominated
>  > > >> > by the
>  > > >> >  > class consciousness of the 'progressive professional'.
>  > > >> >  >
>  > > >> >  > *From my observations, SWORD has been closer to the working
>  >class
>  > > >> > community
>  > > >> >  > on the street, irregardless of the criticisms that have been
>  >made
>  > > >> > against
>  > > >> >  > them.  At one time, the NBPB Coalition held that honor.  but
>  >NJFO
>  > > >> > has been
>  > > >> >  > historically campus/student oriented and while the NBPC had
>made
>  > > >> > inroads
>  > > >> >  > into the community, it's base is still vastly made up of
>  >students &
>  > > >> >  > graduates.
>  > > >> >  >
>  > > >> >  > *I'm unclear as to why you immmediately conclude that
>advocating
>  > > >> >  > 'revolutionary democracy' equates to "vicious, slanderous,
>  > > >> >  > negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering?"  I've 
>consistantly
>  > > >> > criticized
>  > > >> >  > what I view to be 'ultra-leftist' tendencies and 
>'murder-mouth'
>  > > >> >  > sloganeering, but I refuse to give up my ideas and my
>  >experiences
>  > > >> > because
>  > > >> >  > I'm afraid I might be confused with someone else...I agree
>  >that it
>  > > >> > is time
>  > > >> >  > to move on and find a new basis for unity and not to keep
>  >beating
>  > > >> > the same
>  > > >> >  > old horse, but let the records note that I strongly feel that
>  > > >> > NJFO 'gave up'
>  > > >> >  > it's 'revolutionary democratic' *ideological conclusion*
>  >based on
>  > > >> > the hard
>  > > >> >  > fought and won experience of breaking out of the CU 
>shell...in
>  > > >> > other words,
>  > > >> >  > the butterfly never left the branch.
>  > > >> >  >
>  > > >> >  > This is why I now feel that the most pressing issue *still*
>  >is the
>  > > >> > nature of
>  > > >> >  > revolutionary democracy* and how that is represented in a
>United
>  > > >> > Front. (I
>  > > >> >  > think we agree that we disagree on this, but precisely what
>  >are the
>  > > >> > points
>  > > >> >  > of contention. What do we agree on, and what do we disagree
>  >on in
>  > > >> > substance
>  > > >> >  > not form.  If I curse and you don't like that, it doesn't
>  >get any
>  > > >> > closer to
>  > > >> >  > the heart of the matter.  But if I scream at you or slander 
>you
>  > > >> > because
>  > > >> >  > you're not revolutionary enough, then it does get to the 
>heart
>  > > >> > because it
>  > > >> >  > shows that I'm not that interested in building unity with 
>you.
>I
>  > > >> > think we
>  > > >> >  > can agree on this much. Now how does this play out...)
>  > > >> >  >
>  > > >> >  > * Two more things, and then I'll hang up and listen:
>  > > >> >  > 1. Please don't put words in my mouth and then compare them 
>to
>  > > >> > those of
>  > > >> >  > "right-wing turds".
>  > > >> >  > 2. I also wish that I had thought of the idea to limit the # 
>of
>  > > >> > postings to
>  > > >> >  > one-a-day 'back then'...for one thing, I was too preoccupied
>  >with
>  > > >> > my
>  > > >> >  > revelation that the peoples campaign was not acting as a 
>United
>  > > >> > Front; that
>  > > >> >  > NJFO's president had a split with AB and was putting out a
>  >position
>  > > >> > against
>  > > >> >  > publishing U&S (no longer "March Seperately, Strike
>  >Together") to
>  > > >> > appease
>  > > >> >  > the Naderites, Republicans & Landlords; that folks were
>  >generally
>  > > >> > abandoning
>  > > >> >  > U&S as a collective organizer; and the big revalation that 
>this
>  > > >> > tendency of
>  > > >> >  > bannings is just that: a tendency with a long history of
>  >trial and
>  > > >> > error
>  > > >> >  > with little to show for itself in terms of creating a 'pure'
>  >space
>  > > >> > for some
>  > > >> >  > kind of 'real' unity.
>  > > >> >  >
>  > > >> >  > Look , Kris, we all have a relatively long history together.
>  >  It's
>  > > >> > hard to
>  > > >> >  > have things shaken up as much as they have been.  But alot
>  >will be
>  > > >> >  > determined by how we approach our potential for the future,
>  > > >> > beginning on
>  > > >> >  > Wed. I'm glad to be a part of the bridge building.  See you
>  >then.
>  > > >> > Matt
>  > > >> >  >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  > > >> > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > 
>_________________________________________________________________
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>  > > >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1750
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-02 20:02:30
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
Message:

wake up.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:23:52
>
>I worked with Curtis for 4 years, and I know that this statement by Joe is
>unequivically false.  -Matt
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:47:38 -0400
>
>curtis has never advocated anything but a republican agenda!!! thus, he has
>now sealed the deal in an open admission that he is and has been and will
>continue to be a member of the republican party. i have documents that 
>prove
>since 1988 - so much for your arguements...
>bout them apples??
>
>shank schundler!
>win the peoples' campaign to the people, dump bright/el senior/sinister
>ford!!
>
>the streets are watching --
>get on board w/july 4 event in new brunswick
>burn confederate flag in front of 218 george street!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,
>register voters, promote greasy,
>feaster park rally w/food, burn confederate flag2
>fireworks provided by the city (burn another confederate flag3?)
>
>
>
>  >From: shorepaulie@...
>  >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>  >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:29:05 -0000
>  >
>  >You can count me in the anti-republican crusade.  I resigned from the
>  >Repub committee last year and I'm changing my voter reg asap.
>  >
>  >About Joe's words:  No doubt, Joe, that the revolutionaries in the
>  >NBPC should have been more persistent with open revolutionary calls.
>  >But the NBPC itself wasn't a revolutionary org., you know that.
>  >
>  >But to say the platform wasn't revolutionary-democratic?????? Come on,
>  >now.  The platform was straight up community control and all for
>  >people's institutions. If that's not rev-dem, then why not?
>  >
>  >No doubt you guys consistently called for revolution, etc., but you
>  >guys weren't following Mao's 'On Handling Contradictions Among the
>  >People' when you viciously attacked Curtis for his ambiguous
>  >statements.  Curtis didn't back off the platform and he's never
>  >stopped advocating for revolutionary democracy, even if he wouldn't
>  >call it 'rev-dem', and, I would argue, even while supporting Rev.
>  >Soaries with respect to the church (Curtis has never openly supported
>  >Soaries-as-Republican).
>  >
>  >And in hindsight, it was a mistake to align with Bright.  Had we known
>  >better, we could have had independent poll workers.  And while Bright
>  >does sometimes advocate for the people of NB, and sometimes manages to
>  >stink up the machine, keeping the UF together with constant threat
>  >from the Right is part of the reason the NBPC is relatively inactive
>  >right now.  If we hadn't needed to organize against Frank's right wing
>  >attacks, we could have united and consolidated the left much more
>  >effectively after the election.
>  >
>  >You might want to conclude that inclusion of Frank made expulsion of
>  >BoL politically more possible.  That's easy to say, but it's wrong.
>  >
>  >I think BoL's expulsion had more to do with your letter (which was
>  >unprincipled and unprofessional political behavior) rather than
>  >attempts by NJFO and company to avoid revolutionary struggle.
>  >
>  >You gotta admit that letter you guys signed was against 'march
>  >separately, strike together', a slogan that all NBPC trends supported
>  >informally.  What ever happened to winning people over to your
>  >position through side-by-side struggle together, or by persuasive
>  >arguments that pick up the bucket where it's at?  That's where BoL
>  >makes its mistakes- not recognizing contradictions within the rev-dem
>  >movement as opportunities to win over your allies, but instead using
>  >differences (which are ususally limited in their political scope, I
>  >might add), as launching pads for your vitriol dressed in Amiriesque
>  >nicknames, and all-out attacks on your allies that forget about unity.
>  >
>  >That coincides with talking without listening, struggle without unity,
>  >and other trends that manifest themselves in meetings, in
>  >revolutionary literature, and especially in contentious conversations
>  >with individuals.  I think BoL needs to get serious about its personal
>  >and political conduct.  You criticize bannings and expulsions but you
>  >push your allies up against walls and badger them until they 'agree'
>  >with you.
>  >
>  >This all shows that we need new conventions about unity.  Our old
>  >conceptions of 'unity' come from our fight clubs not out of
>  >appreciation for the power of revolutionary alliances and the united
>  >front.
>  >
>  >When you say the BoL dominated the Outreach Committee, you're right.
>  >The Outreach Committee was the power base of BoL.  They yelled at
>  >everyone who wasn't BoL and generally acted in a hostile manner
>  >towards people who didn't show an ironclad commitment to canvassing.
>  >They did survey and canvass like the Dickens, but they did their best
>  >to alienate everyone else.
>  >
>  >When I think about cultural revolution, I think about these things.
>  >
>  >Paul
>  >
>  >--- In njfo@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>  > > (re: paul)
>  > >
>  > > through seeing who is being organized to your positions and why.
>  > >
>  > > not so insignificant as you might think, uniting with republicans.
>  > > why don't you explain to jayson hankins and myself why you would
>  > > rather have fucbright on the steering committee than himself?
>  > >
>  > > i am not and never have been anti-nbpc, nor am i ultra-left.
>  > >
>  > > to claim that the nbpc represented the working class with a
>  >revolutionary
>  > > democratic program is a lie, lier. xavier and njfo members led the
>  >expulsion
>  > > of any open revolutionary democratic programs being organized in the
>  > > peoples' campaign. let alone the bankrupt attack and guttering of the
>  > > national election. since BOL and others from nb were/ARE expelled,
>  >there has
>  > > yet to be any open revolutionary programs put forward by the nbpc.
>  > >
>  > > yes the nbpc talked to thousands of nb working class residents
>  >through the
>  > > canvass which was organized by the outreach committee which was led
>  >by BOL.
>  > > the motorcade, the surveys, the picnic were all organized through the
>  > > outreach committee which was dominated by BOL. where is the outreach
>  > > committee now?, where is any public display of the nbpc?
>  > >
>  > > you never explained to the people that you were/ARE all registered
>  > > REPUBLICANS!
>  > >
>  > > as far as what % of the working class vote nbpc received, the losing 
>%.
>  > >
>  > > Beat Bush!! Nix Nader!! sound familiar Flavier?
>  > >
>  > > if there is a working class base organized promoting revolutionary
>  > > democratic programs in nb, where is it? and how can SWORD get 
>involved?
>  > >
>  > > why do we as revolutionaries build allainces? not to drop our OPEN
>  > > AND ABOVE BOARD revolutionary positions, but to further them. 
>currently
>  > > there are more nb people agreeing with republican positions on public
>  > > housing than are agreeing with revolutionary democratic positions on
>  >public
>  > > housing. or is there not a difference??????????????????????
>  > >
>  > > nbpc recieved 1900+ votes for republican candidates for city
>  >council. how
>  > > many votes did nbpc receive for revolutionary democracy?
>  > >
>  > >                    000000
>  > >                   0      0
>  > >                  0        0
>  > >                 0          0
>  > >                 0          0
>  > >                 0          0
>  > >                  0        0
>  > >                   0      0
>  > >                    000000
>  > >
>  > > you can't play me
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > >From: shorepaulie@h...
>  > > >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > > >>Subject: [nbpc] working class base?
>  > > >>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:58:06 -0000
>  > > >>
>  > > >>Matt wrote:  But the point is that we need
>  > > >> > to sort out ... why the campaign lacked a working class base.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>Paul writes:  Yea, I think that's the bottom line issue here.
>Matthew
>  > > >>and others have contended that we didn't reach the working class 
>with
>  > > >>the NBPC.  I can't think of many things farther from the truth.  
>I've
>  > > >>personally tried to convey this so many times....that we spoke with
>  > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with community
>  > > >>control, down with the platform, down with democracy.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>As some may guess, many of these working class people whom I
>  > > >>personally met can talk the issues much better than some local
>  > > >>'organizers' and many of the 'advanced' who need to learn to 
>listen.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>You say we didn't have a working class base, but the platform was
>  > > >>derived from conversation with mainly working class people.  The
>  > > >>tactics on canvass were derived mainly from conversations, that is,
>  > > >>informal agitation and propaganda among the broad mass of working
>  > > >>class people in NB.  We reinforced our emphases based on continued
>  > > >>interaction.  We had working class people out in the field, in our
>  > > >>meetings, working on election day, spreading the buzz of the NBPC,
>  >etc.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>But you may still say we lacked working class base.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>As a communist, I'll say that our most important job is to 
>represent
>  > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible.  I think my
>  > > >>arguments, which are well-honed now that I've repeated them so many
>  > > >>times, stand for themselves.  You can say my premises are wrong and
>my
>  > > >>experience non-scientific, but that's how I and others stand on the
>  > > >>campaign experience.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>As far as getting out the working class vote goes,  we don't yet 
>know
>  > > >>what percentage of our vote was working class.  I think that 
>deserves
>  > > >>much attention:  at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other
>night,
>  > > >>the NBPC was roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in which
>  > > >>revolutionaries sold out their principles to form partnerships with
>  > > >>pro-Bush forces.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>That conclusion, embraced mainly by the far Left among us, ignores
>the
>  > > >>political experience of the campaign as it relates to the political
>  > > >>experience of the working class voters of NB.  To dismiss the
>campaign
>  > > >>on the grounds of two strategic alliances which barely affected
>  > > >>tactics is to ignore the largest question of progressive and
>  > > >>revolutionary politics....that is:   how do we mobilize the working
>  > > >>class and in doing that, what tasks are principal for 
>pro-democratic
>  > > >>forces who would mobilize the political disfranchised classes. Any
>  > > >>analysis of these questions has to take practice into account. But
>  > > >>this type of practice was not on the agenda on Wednesday in Newark.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it certainly
>  > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who contend
>that
>  > > >>the campaign didn't have a working class base, that the campaign 
>was
>  > > >>not revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without detailed
>  > > >>investigation.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>I don't think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened to to
>  > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That's not only unprinicipled, but opportunist
>  > > >>because they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
>  > > >>revolutionary practice of the campaign.  This dissing of
>revolutionary
>  > > >>practice is predicated on the less-significant alliances formed 
>with
>  > > >>Greens and Republicans.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>It's precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current trends 
>in
>  > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem credible in
>  > > >>this ongoing debate.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>
>  > > >>I'm going to end with a question, because now I'm listening---
>  > > >>Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our practice?
>  > > >>
>  > > >>
>  > > >>
>  > > >>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> 
>wrote:
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > Totally agreed that the movement needs "technicians and
>progressive
>  > > >> > professionsals...(look, i'm a college student studying to be an
>  > > >>architect
>  > > >> > which is about as technical  as you can get)  But the point is
>that
>  > > >>we need
>  > > >> > to sort out the question of what the United Front is, and why 
>the
>  > > >>campaign
>  > > >> > lacked a working class base.
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > Here's an anecdote: I was just working with this third-wrold
>  >grassroots
>  > > >> > coalition on building a full scale model house in the United
>  >Nations
>  > > >>for a
>  > > >> > convention on low-income housing.  After a week of working
>  >together,
>  > > >>I asked
>  > > >> > their leader, Jokin, an old Indian man, how I could join the
>  > > >>organization.
>  > > >> > He looked at me puzzled, and asked me, WHy do you ask how you 
>can
>  > > >>join what
>  > > >> > you've already joined?!  That's the difference in the mode of
>  > > >>organizing,
>  > > >> > and it's a consciousness that comes *from* the grassroots,
>  >*not* the
>  > > >> > technical progressives.  & When I say that there is a dominant
>  > > >>tendancy, or
>  > > >> > ideology, that represents the "progressive professional" it
>doesn't
>  > > >>mean
>  > > >> > that you, Flavio, not needed (BTW I haven't had my court date
>  > > >>rescheduled
>  > > >> > yet ;)  ...it means that something else is lacking, and has
>  > > >>historically
>  > > >> > been so. And that is the working class.  & It is only with 
>working
>  > > >>class
>  > > >> > consciousness that **revolutionary democracy** will not be
>  >compromised,
>  > > >> > because the W.C. doesn't have the option of "getting jobs" like 
>so
>  > > >>many of
>  > > >> > our parents generation did......So it is *of necessity* that the
>  > > >>W.C. will
>  > > >> > ultimately inspire all of us progressive and revolutionary
>  > > >>technicians to
>  > > >> > get it together and participate in the construction of an
>  >actual United
>  > > >> > Front against this mess. and for democracy, by any means
>necessary.
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > -Matt
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > ----Original Message Follows----
>  > > >> > From: Groovemeister007@y...
>  > > >> > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  > > >> > To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  > > >> > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the
>Essence
>  > > >> > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:56:10 -0000
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > It is my understanding that even Mao advocated that political
>  >leaders
>  > > >> > had to be both "red and expert," i.e. to understand both
>  >politics as
>  > > >> > well as more technical matters such as industry (or even law).
>  > > >> > Not "red and ignorant" or "red and alienating."  As he 
>explained,
>a
>  > > >> > person with only a political line is "pseudo-red, empty-headedly
>  > > >> > political."
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > The campaign needs technicians in its ranks.  I also believe
>  >that to
>  > > >> > be "advanced" one must have more than a class consciousness.
>While
>  > > >> > petition signatures were being collected for the 2000 board of
>  >ed and
>  > > >> > municipal elections, some turkeys decided it would be
>  >permissible to
>  > > >> > get signatures from people living in _North_ Brunswick (which 
>are
>  > > >> > invalid in a _New_ Brunswick election).  Just recently, some 
>other
>  > > >> > turkeys on the other egroup advocated letters to USA Cleary 
>asking
>  > > >> > him to "overturn" a judge's ruling nullifying a jury verdict
>(Can't
>  > > >> > happen because of separation of powers).  One point of the NBPC
>  > > >> > platform demands: "Pass rent control legislation to stop all 
>rent
>  > > >> > increases except those necessary to preserve a fair rate of 
>return
>  > > >> > for landlords' investments, such as to cover repairs and
>  >improvements
>  > > >> > to building by the owner, requiring the approval of a
>  >democratically-
>  > > >> > elected Rent Control Board and never to exceed cost of living
>  > > >> > increase for that year."  This is despite the fact that NB has
>just
>  > > >> > such a rent control ordinance, albeit one that is
>  > > >> > underenforced/unenforced and without vacancy control.
>  >Shouldn't the
>  > > >> > nonenforcement/vacancy control have been the emphasis of the 
>rent
>  > > >> > point, rather than demanding something already on the books?
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > I could go on but in sum, my question is: who is doing the
>  >technical
>  > > >> > homework on our political work and outreach?
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > Credibility matters, whether we like it or not.  Part of
>  >credibility
>  > > >> > is technical accuracy.  (Proper grammar, spelling, and use of
>  >English
>  > > >> > capitalization rules also help, a point sorely lost on many of 
>the
>  > > >> > purportedly "advanced" people who are using the other egroup).
>  > > >> > Technical accuracy and the precision of a message can be
>  >enhanced by
>  > > >> > welcoming progressives into the campaign who share the 
>campaign's
>  > > >> > goals and who have the relevant technical and professional
>  > > >> > knowledge.  Indeed, if we are going to participate in electoral
>  > > >> > politics, I'd rather have the progressive technician who
>  >understands
>  > > >> > how to get our candidates' names on the ballot participating in,
>  > > >> > even "dominating" things, rather than the sloganeer whose can
>mouth
>  > > >> > a "purer" political consciousness than that of the progressive
>  > > >> > technician/professional.
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
>  > > >> >  > Kris-
>  > > >> >  >
>  > > >> >  > *My choice of phrasing "landlords & lawyer types", though not
>  > > >> > intended to be
>  > > >> >  > a put down, could be read as such.  I'll rephrase it more
>  > > >> > accurately & point
>  > > >> >  > out that the 'political line' of nbpcmembers is/has been
>  >dominated
>  > > >> > by the
>  > > >> >  > class consciousness of the 'progressive professional'.
>  > > >> >  >
>  > > >> >  > *From my observations, SWORD has been closer to the working
>  >class
>  > > >> > community
>  > > >> >  > on the street, irregardless of the criticisms that have been
>  >made
>  > > >> > against
>  > > >> >  > them.  At one time, the NBPB Coalition held that honor.  but
>  >NJFO
>  > > >> > has been
>  > > >> >  > historically campus/student oriented and while the NBPC had
>made
>  > > >> > inroads
>  > > >> >  > into the community, it's base is still vastly made up of
>  >students &
>  > > >> >  > graduates.
>  > > >> >  >
>  > > >> >  > *I'm unclear as to why you immmediately conclude that
>advocating
>  > > >> >  > 'revolutionary democracy' equates to "vicious, slanderous,
>  > > >> >  > negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering?"  I've 
>consistantly
>  > > >> > criticized
>  > > >> >  > what I view to be 'ultra-leftist' tendencies and 
>'murder-mouth'
>  > > >> >  > sloganeering, but I refuse to give up my ideas and my
>  >experiences
>  > > >> > because
>  > > >> >  > I'm afraid I might be confused with someone else...I agree
>  >that it
>  > > >> > is time
>  > > >> >  > to move on and find a new basis for unity and not to keep
>  >beating
>  > > >> > the same
>  > > >> >  > old horse, but let the records note that I strongly feel that
>  > > >> > NJFO 'gave up'
>  > > >> >  > it's 'revolutionary democratic' *ideological conclusion*
>  >based on
>  > > >> > the hard
>  > > >> >  > fought and won experience of breaking out of the CU 
>shell...in
>  > > >> > other words,
>  > > >> >  > the butterfly never left the branch.
>  > > >> >  >
>  > > >> >  > This is why I now feel that the most pressing issue *still*
>  >is the
>  > > >> > nature of
>  > > >> >  > revolutionary democracy* and how that is represented in a
>United
>  > > >> > Front. (I
>  > > >> >  > think we agree that we disagree on this, but precisely what
>  >are the
>  > > >> > points
>  > > >> >  > of contention. What do we agree on, and what do we disagree
>  >on in
>  > > >> > substance
>  > > >> >  > not form.  If I curse and you don't like that, it doesn't
>  >get any
>  > > >> > closer to
>  > > >> >  > the heart of the matter.  But if I scream at you or slander 
>you
>  > > >> > because
>  > > >> >  > you're not revolutionary enough, then it does get to the 
>heart
>  > > >> > because it
>  > > >> >  > shows that I'm not that interested in building unity with 
>you.
>I
>  > > >> > think we
>  > > >> >  > can agree on this much. Now how does this play out...)
>  > > >> >  >
>  > > >> >  > * Two more things, and then I'll hang up and listen:
>  > > >> >  > 1. Please don't put words in my mouth and then compare them 
>to
>  > > >> > those of
>  > > >> >  > "right-wing turds".
>  > > >> >  > 2. I also wish that I had thought of the idea to limit the # 
>of
>  > > >> > postings to
>  > > >> >  > one-a-day 'back then'...for one thing, I was too preoccupied
>  >with
>  > > >> > my
>  > > >> >  > revelation that the peoples campaign was not acting as a 
>United
>  > > >> > Front; that
>  > > >> >  > NJFO's president had a split with AB and was putting out a
>  >position
>  > > >> > against
>  > > >> >  > publishing U&S (no longer "March Seperately, Strike
>  >Together") to
>  > > >> > appease
>  > > >> >  > the Naderites, Republicans & Landlords; that folks were
>  >generally
>  > > >> > abandoning
>  > > >> >  > U&S as a collective organizer; and the big revalation that 
>this
>  > > >> > tendency of
>  > > >> >  > bannings is just that: a tendency with a long history of
>  >trial and
>  > > >> > error
>  > > >> >  > with little to show for itself in terms of creating a 'pure'
>  >space
>  > > >> > for some
>  > > >> >  > kind of 'real' unity.
>  > > >> >  >
>  > > >> >  > Look , Kris, we all have a relatively long history together.
>  >  It's
>  > > >> > hard to
>  > > >> >  > have things shaken up as much as they have been.  But alot
>  >will be
>  > > >> >  > determined by how we approach our potential for the future,
>  > > >> > beginning on
>  > > >> >  > Wed. I'm glad to be a part of the bridge building.  See you
>  >then.
>  > > >> > Matt
>  > > >> >  >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  > > >> > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> >
>  > > >> > 
>_________________________________________________________________
>  > > >> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com
>  > > >>
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > > _________________________________________________________________
>  > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>  >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1752
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-02 20:44:15
Subject:holla
Message:

american revolution celebration party.
39 throop ave.
tues, 3 July.
all non-republicans welcome.

cs







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1753
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-02 23:30:49
Subject:Fwd: [njfo] Who is Darth Henson? aka aka aka aka aka..............................
Message:



>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: amirib@..., poprogress@yahoogroups.com, kmyers@..., 
>OH_G@..., marcosxh@..., hajdukmi@..., 
>njfo@yahoogroups.com, sprince52@..., traceyx@...
>Subject: [njfo] Who is Darth Henson? aka aka aka aka 
>aka..............................
>Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 19:56:06
>
>Dear POP:
>
>I appreciate the reponses to my post challenging the Greens to get behind
>the movement to Beat Bret & keep the far-right from gaining control of the
>state house in November.  To summarize, the responses generally upheld the
>same position that the Democrats and Republicans are cut from the same
>corporate/bourgeois mold, and therefore must be equally resisted, to make
>way for an independant party of the people, which the Greens and upwards of
>4% of voters nationally, believe to be the Green Party.  It is important
>that we debate these urgent issues in a principled and above board way, and
>I will try to keep my arguments on point and "attack" the ideas rather than
>the individuals.  However, before that can occur, I am forced to address
>this post by David Hungerford (aka:aka:whatever):
>
>I stand accused of creating a "ploy to disorganize the people's antifascist
>struggle..."  It's interesting (perhaps wise, definitely safer) that Mr.
>Hungerford would restrict this kind of slander to the e-group..because
>although my ideological perspective is open and established, he has never
>dared to accuse me of such "ploys" to my face, and if he did, he'd have
>ANOTHER thing coming.  Truth be told, I'm another lucky survivor of the
>secret, cell-bound, Communist Union run by Mr. Hungerford's (aka)
>look-alike, Darth Henson (Fab-W) so I'm all too familiar with how 
>dissenters
>get mis-treated, slandered then ostrasized by this counterfeit
>revolutionary.  ***Before anyone suggests that this is not the place for 
>the
>dirty-laundry of Darth's old organization to be aired, I will say that
>anywhere he responds to a principled position like the one I posted with a
>slanderous accusation that the intention is to disrupt the united front, he
>must be confronted and exposed.  Folks that know me will know that I've
>worked relentlessly for the last 8 years (since I moved to New
>Brunswick/Newark) to build up the movement for revolutionary democracy.
>Whether with revolutionary cultural work in NJFO, organizing (co-founding)
>the NB Coalition Against Police Brutality, with the NB Peoples' Campaign,
>and now carrying the struggle with me into my work as an architecture
>student at NJIT here in Newark, I have always worked to build up the
>movement, and this is the first time that I can think of that someone
>leveled such an accusation against me.  The great irony is that all of the
>work I was involved with in NB happened IN SPITE of Darth, as opposed to on
>account of him.  And we are still picking up the pieces from the "secret"
>disruptions of our relationships with organizations such as BNF, Pa'Lante,
>U&S, etc. So thanks for the memories, Darth, but watch where you step.  (
>PS- my roommate is Tracey Luzcz, and I live at 73 James St. Newark, and I
>don't sit about inventing "ploys"- I deal from the top of the deck.)
>
>So my question to the audience is this- If Darth is really interested in
>building up a real United Front, then why the hostility toward anyone
>posting a dissenting opinion?  Is United Front beholden to Darth's
>innuendo-filled notion of what the "Party Line" should be?  Or is something
>else afoot???  (And btw, Darth, before you sick your boy-wonder, 
>Ruthenberg,
>on me, spare us all...I don't shadow box)
>
>If anyone else is interested in carrying on this critical debate (the other
>one about the gubenatorial race!) in a principled, above-board way, then
>please let me restate the principle issue as I see it:
>
>1. Vote the Green alternative for the top-positions & risk the far-Right
>taking power in the State House (as they did the White House, I would
>argue).
>
>vs
>
>2. Build the revolutionary democratic united front from the ground up (w/
>the parallel revolution in popular culture/thought), and waste the
>encroaching far-right/republicans in the interim, with the objective of 
>this
>united front/coalition work leading toward party building & seizing power
>for/with the people.
>
>
>In the Struggle for Unity, Matthew
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [poprogress] Morristown, July 4
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 18:41:19 -0400
>
>Matt's message can be taken as little more than a ploy to disorganize the
>people's antifascist struggle in favor of the Democratic Party.
>
>First, July 4 in Morristown is not a matter of "chasing the Brown Shirts in
>the streets." It is a matter of political/ideological confrontation with
>fascist forces not only in the street but, more importantly, in the state
>apparatus. The July 4 effort has seen a continuing struggle to educate 
>those
>who would fall into the trap of physical confrontation with the state.
>
>Second, what are these great "contradictions between the dems/reps" that
>Matt and his political "camp" keep talking about? They never tell us. If it
>is a matter of revealed knowledge among the chosen, OK. People have a right
>to hold whatever religious views they choose. But if factual
>"contradictions" are alleged, Matt's camp owes us an explanation.
>
>The real problem with Matt's line is that he believes the bourgeoisie, 
>i.e.,
>the capitalist ruling class, is the main force in history. We find this on
>page 10 of the May 1999 issue of the Unity & Struggle Journal:
>"Revolutionaries Unite because the principal contradiction in the world
>(including the US) is Imperialism vs the People and Imperialism is the
>principal aspect of that contradiction." [my emphasis - DH]
>
>This is The Revealed Word. Hence, in the struggle against
>fascism, Matt wants to rely on the Democratic Party, i.e., the bourgeoisie,
>and not on the masses.
>
>This is wrong. The masses are the real makers of history. So go ahead, 
>Matt,
>jump on the McGravy Train. "It's a free country," it's said. But don't try
>to mess up the struggle of the masses against fascism.
>
>Dave
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <njfo@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 8:21 PM
>Subject: Re: [poprogress] Morristown, July 4
>
>
>  > Dear POP:  (responding to Dave)
>  >
>  > I wonder if Barret is going to edorse Kemp/Schundler?  Chasing the 
>Brown
>  > Shirts in the streets is fine for now, but the grassroots far-right
>  > (nationally, mind you) is ready to do battle for the NJ State House.  
>All
>  > arguments of "no contradictions between the dems/reps" & "the Democrats
>are
>  > the main enemy" are clearly & hopelessly bankrupt.  It's on...Schundler 
>&
>  > the right must be defeated in November.  I hope the Greens know what 
>time
>it
>  > is...Matthew Smith.
>  >
>  >
>  > ----Original Message Follows----
>  > From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>  > Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>  > To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
>  > Subject: [poprogress] Morristown, July 4
>  > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 21:23:34 -0400
>  >
>  > The white supremacist Richard Barrett returns to Morristown on July 4.
>This
>  > year his message is "racial profiling saves lives." He also plans to
>speak
>  > in support of the Cincinatti cop who killed Timothy Thomas, sparking 
>the
>  > people's justified rebellion.
>  >
>  > Barrett intends to swing public opinion in favor of police racism and
>  > brutality while hiding behind a fake issue of "free speech."
>  >
>  > POP will organize a car caravan to Morristown to expose and discredit
>this
>  > racist reactionary and his far-right and police backers. We will meet 
>at
>the
>  > WISOMMM Mansion, 53 Lincoln Park, at 8 AM on July 4. From there we will
>  > proceed to Budd Park in Morristown.
>  >
>  > There we will join at 9:00 AM with Morristown residents and progressive
>  > people from all over the NY/NJ area. We will march to the vicinity of 
>the
>  > Barrett/cop provocation with signs and banners opposing white supremacy
>and
>  > upholding the unity of the peoples.
>  >
>  > We will hold a speaking program that will give priority to victims of
>police
>  > brutality and surviving family members. We will line the barricades
>  > protecting Barrett with our banners and signs. We will expose and 
>defeat
>the
>  > whole dirty cop/Barrett scheme. We will not fall into any traps of 
>police
>  > provocation. When we are ready we will retreat to Budd Park and join 
>the
>  > people's festivities there.
>  >
>  > Please join us at the WISOMMM Mansion, 53 Lincoln Park in Newark at 8 
>AM
>on
>  > July 4.
>  >
>  > _________________________________________________________________
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>  >
>  >
>  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >
>  >
>
>
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>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1754
Sender:Zofia Nowakowski <znowakowski@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-03 10:22:00
Subject:COME OUT TO MEET STEVE MA of walk4reform
Message:

Steve Ma, a citizen from Metuchen who launched a
6-month, 1500-mile walk through New Jersey to unite
citizens around the issue of campaign finance reform,
is making a stop in New Brunswick on Thursday, July
5th, at the New Brunswick Public Library.  The New
Brunswick People�s Campaign will host a talk by Ma at
6:30 pm for all concerned citizens. 

Ma, who is walking through 235 towns and hitting every
county and legislative district in the state, will
speak about money�s undue influence in New Jersey
politics and his strategy to set politics right. 
Common Cause, the League of Women Voters, and the New
Jersey Public Interest Research Group, the three
leading reform organizations in the state, all support
Ma�s effort.  

The specific bill Steve is proposing (that is also
being backed by PIRG, League of Women Voters, Common
Cause, and Citizen Action), is a Clean Elections bill.
 It is a model bill that has passed in four states
already:
Maine, Arizona, Oregon, and Colorado.  The Clean
Elections bill is a reform that allows candidates to
run for office without relying on big monied
interests by offering public financing to qualified
candidates.  Currently, Common Cause is looking into
finding sponsors for the bill--it has not yet been 
brought up to the legislature.

The results from the other states that passed the
Clean Elections bill are extremely encouraging:
citizens had more candidates to choose from, and
candidates spent more time with their constituents and
ran successful campaigns without relying on huge
campaign contributions.  In fact, 1/3 of
Maine's legislators currently in office are not
beholden to any special interests because they opted
to run on public financing.

Ma�s walk will end in Trenton on October 20th, with
citizens from every corner of the state joining him in
a town hall-style meeting that will provide voters
with the opportunity to call on our candidates for
governor to put campaign finance reform on the top of
the political agenda.  Ma will encourage New Brunswick
residents to join him that day.

Ma can be identified by the 3 X 5-foot American flag
he carries with him, a symbol to signify that he walks
not in protest or anger, but with pride in his country
and state and with the belief that our democracy can
be better. Citizens can visit www.walk4reform.com to
learn more about his effort.  All interested citizens
are welcome to attend the presentation.





__________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1755
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-03 12:19:33
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
Message:

It's times like this that the internet & e-group thang becomes dangerous.  I 
mean, do I take this shit seriously and strangle my monitor as the public 
debate gets dragged down once again into knee deep vitriol, insults and 
slander.  Do I take the gloves off & give this post the back of my hand?  Or 
do I just scratch my head and wonder what the hell this guy is thinking (& 
what this has to do with unity building, or anything remotely constructive, 
let alone principled debate from a *communist*), while trying to remember 
that he's actually my blood, even if he chooses to forget...I'm running out 
of answers, folks.

(PS if I thought it would matter for a second to the 2-3 people who think 
Curtis is an imperialist (sigh), I would make the effort to bust out my home 
videos of him speaking in public.)

Yours,or not- Matt


Joe wrote:

don't speak too soon matt, ask keith and ask curtis himself. i can produce
my evidence, you better have your explanation for the people as to why you
are so tight with el senior. your good word don't amount to a hill'a beans
papi.

further- matt, curtis is a member of the republican party, how could one
advocate anything but republican positions from such a base?

your whole practice of latching on to one "spokesperson" and disregarding
the entire community is now coming full circle. what shall we learn? what
shall we learn?

further2- where are the articles for the next U&S issue and what can i do to
facilitate putting out the issue?

joe

 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
 >Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:23:52
 >
 >I worked with Curtis for 4 years, and I know that this statement by Joe is
 >unequivically false.  -Matt
 >
 >
 >----Original Message Follows----
 >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
 >Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:47:38 -0400
 >
 >curtis has never advocated anything but a republican agenda!!! thus, he 
has
 >now sealed the deal in an open admission that he is and has been and will
 >continue to be a member of the republican party. i have documents that
 >prove
 >since 1988 - so much for your arguements...
 >bout them apples??
 >
 >shank schundler!
 >win the peoples' campaign to the people, dump bright/el senior/sinister
 >ford!!
 >
 >the streets are watching --
 >get on board w/july 4 event in new brunswick
 >burn confederate flag in front of 218 george street!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,
 >register voters, promote greasy,
 >feaster park rally w/food, burn confederate flag2
 >fireworks provided by the city (burn another confederate flag3?)
 >
 >
 >
 >  >From: shorepaulie@...
 >  >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
 >  >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
 >  >Subject: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
 >  >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:29:05 -0000
 >  >
 >  >You can count me in the anti-republican crusade.  I resigned from the
 >  >Repub committee last year and I'm changing my voter reg asap.
 >  >
 >  >About Joe's words:  No doubt, Joe, that the revolutionaries in the
 >  >NBPC should have been more persistent with open revolutionary calls.
 >  >But the NBPC itself wasn't a revolutionary org., you know that.
 >  >
 >  >But to say the platform wasn't revolutionary-democratic?????? Come on,
 >  >now.  The platform was straight up community control and all for
 >  >people's institutions. If that's not rev-dem, then why not?
 >  >
 >  >No doubt you guys consistently called for revolution, etc., but you
 >  >guys weren't following Mao's 'On Handling Contradictions Among the
 >  >People' when you viciously attacked Curtis for his ambiguous
 >  >statements.  Curtis didn't back off the platform and he's never
 >  >stopped advocating for revolutionary democracy, even if he wouldn't
 >  >call it 'rev-dem', and, I would argue, even while supporting Rev.
 >  >Soaries with respect to the church (Curtis has never openly supported
 >  >Soaries-as-Republican).
 >  >
 >  >And in hindsight, it was a mistake to align with Bright.  Had we known
 >  >better, we could have had independent poll workers.  And while Bright
 >  >does sometimes advocate for the people of NB, and sometimes manages to
 >  >stink up the machine, keeping the UF together with constant threat
 >  >from the Right is part of the reason the NBPC is relatively inactive
 >  >right now.  If we hadn't needed to organize against Frank's right wing
 >  >attacks, we could have united and consolidated the left much more
 >  >effectively after the election.
 >  >
 >  >You might want to conclude that inclusion of Frank made expulsion of
 >  >BoL politically more possible.  That's easy to say, but it's wrong.
 >  >
 >  >I think BoL's expulsion had more to do with your letter (which was
 >  >unprincipled and unprofessional political behavior) rather than
 >  >attempts by NJFO and company to avoid revolutionary struggle.
 >  >
 >  >You gotta admit that letter you guys signed was against 'march
 >  >separately, strike together', a slogan that all NBPC trends supported
 >  >informally.  What ever happened to winning people over to your
 >  >position through side-by-side struggle together, or by persuasive
 >  >arguments that pick up the bucket where it's at?  That's where BoL
 >  >makes its mistakes- not recognizing contradictions within the rev-dem
 >  >movement as opportunities to win over your allies, but instead using
 >  >differences (which are ususally limited in their political scope, I
 >  >might add), as launching pads for your vitriol dressed in Amiriesque
 >  >nicknames, and all-out attacks on your allies that forget about unity.
 >  >
 >  >That coincides with talking without listening, struggle without unity,
 >  >and other trends that manifest themselves in meetings, in
 >  >revolutionary literature, and especially in contentious conversations
 >  >with individuals.  I think BoL needs to get serious about its personal
 >  >and political conduct.  You criticize bannings and expulsions but you
 >  >push your allies up against walls and badger them until they 'agree'
 >  >with you.
 >  >
 >  >This all shows that we need new conventions about unity.  Our old
 >  >conceptions of 'unity' come from our fight clubs not out of
 >  >appreciation for the power of revolutionary alliances and the united
 >  >front.
 >  >
 >  >When you say the BoL dominated the Outreach Committee, you're right.
 >  >The Outreach Committee was the power base of BoL.  They yelled at
 >  >everyone who wasn't BoL and generally acted in a hostile manner
 >  >towards people who didn't show an ironclad commitment to canvassing.
 >  >They did survey and canvass like the Dickens, but they did their best
 >  >to alienate everyone else.
 >  >
 >  >When I think about cultural revolution, I think about these things.
 >  >
 >  >Paul
 >  >
 >  >--- In njfo@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
 >  > > (re: paul)
 >  > >
 >  > > through seeing who is being organized to your positions and why.
 >  > >
 >  > > not so insignificant as you might think, uniting with republicans.
 >  > > why don't you explain to jayson hankins and myself why you would
 >  > > rather have fucbright on the steering committee than himself?
 >  > >
 >  > > i am not and never have been anti-nbpc, nor am i ultra-left.
 >  > >
 >  > > to claim that the nbpc represented the working class with a
 >  >revolutionary
 >  > > democratic program is a lie, lier. xavier and njfo members led the
 >  >expulsion
 >  > > of any open revolutionary democratic programs being organized in the
 >  > > peoples' campaign. let alone the bankrupt attack and guttering of 
the
 >  > > national election. since BOL and others from nb were/ARE expelled,
 >  >there has
 >  > > yet to be any open revolutionary programs put forward by the nbpc.
 >  > >
 >  > > yes the nbpc talked to thousands of nb working class residents
 >  >through the
 >  > > canvass which was organized by the outreach committee which was led
 >  >by BOL.
 >  > > the motorcade, the surveys, the picnic were all organized through 
the
 >  > > outreach committee which was dominated by BOL. where is the outreach
 >  > > committee now?, where is any public display of the nbpc?
 >  > >
 >  > > you never explained to the people that you were/ARE all registered
 >  > > REPUBLICANS!
 >  > >
 >  > > as far as what % of the working class vote nbpc received, the losing
 >%.
 >  > >
 >  > > Beat Bush!! Nix Nader!! sound familiar Flavier?
 >  > >
 >  > > if there is a working class base organized promoting revolutionary
 >  > > democratic programs in nb, where is it? and how can SWORD get
 >involved?
 >  > >
 >  > > why do we as revolutionaries build allainces? not to drop our OPEN
 >  > > AND ABOVE BOARD revolutionary positions, but to further them.
 >currently
 >  > > there are more nb people agreeing with republican positions on 
public
 >  > > housing than are agreeing with revolutionary democratic positions on
 >  >public
 >  > > housing. or is there not a difference??????????????????????
 >  > >
 >  > > nbpc recieved 1900+ votes for republican candidates for city
 >  >council. how
 >  > > many votes did nbpc receive for revolutionary democracy?
 >  > >
 >  > >                    000000
 >  > >                   0      0
 >  > >                  0        0
 >  > >                 0          0
 >  > >                 0          0
 >  > >                 0          0
 >  > >                  0        0
 >  > >                   0      0
 >  > >                    000000
 >  > >
 >  > > you can't play me
 >  > >
 >  > >
 >  > >
 >  > > >From: shorepaulie@h...
 >  > > >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 >  > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 >  > > >>Subject: [nbpc] working class base?
 >  > > >>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:58:06 -0000
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>Matt wrote:  But the point is that we need
 >  > > >> > to sort out ... why the campaign lacked a working class base.
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>Paul writes:  Yea, I think that's the bottom line issue here.
 >Matthew
 >  > > >>and others have contended that we didn't reach the working class
 >with
 >  > > >>the NBPC.  I can't think of many things farther from the truth.
 >I've
 >  > > >>personally tried to convey this so many times....that we spoke 
with
 >  > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with community
 >  > > >>control, down with the platform, down with democracy.
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>As some may guess, many of these working class people whom I
 >  > > >>personally met can talk the issues much better than some local
 >  > > >>'organizers' and many of the 'advanced' who need to learn to
 >listen.
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>You say we didn't have a working class base, but the platform was
 >  > > >>derived from conversation with mainly working class people.  The
 >  > > >>tactics on canvass were derived mainly from conversations, that 
is,
 >  > > >>informal agitation and propaganda among the broad mass of working
 >  > > >>class people in NB.  We reinforced our emphases based on continued
 >  > > >>interaction.  We had working class people out in the field, in our
 >  > > >>meetings, working on election day, spreading the buzz of the NBPC,
 >  >etc.
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>But you may still say we lacked working class base.
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>As a communist, I'll say that our most important job is to
 >represent
 >  > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible.  I think 
my
 >  > > >>arguments, which are well-honed now that I've repeated them so 
many
 >  > > >>times, stand for themselves.  You can say my premises are wrong 
and
 >my
 >  > > >>experience non-scientific, but that's how I and others stand on 
the
 >  > > >>campaign experience.
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>As far as getting out the working class vote goes,  we don't yet
 >know
 >  > > >>what percentage of our vote was working class.  I think that
 >deserves
 >  > > >>much attention:  at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other
 >night,
 >  > > >>the NBPC was roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in 
which
 >  > > >>revolutionaries sold out their principles to form partnerships 
with
 >  > > >>pro-Bush forces.
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>That conclusion, embraced mainly by the far Left among us, ignores
 >the
 >  > > >>political experience of the campaign as it relates to the 
political
 >  > > >>experience of the working class voters of NB.  To dismiss the
 >campaign
 >  > > >>on the grounds of two strategic alliances which barely affected
 >  > > >>tactics is to ignore the largest question of progressive and
 >  > > >>revolutionary politics....that is:   how do we mobilize the 
working
 >  > > >>class and in doing that, what tasks are principal for
 >pro-democratic
 >  > > >>forces who would mobilize the political disfranchised classes. Any
 >  > > >>analysis of these questions has to take practice into account. But
 >  > > >>this type of practice was not on the agenda on Wednesday in 
Newark.
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it 
certainly
 >  > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who contend
 >that
 >  > > >>the campaign didn't have a working class base, that the campaign
 >was
 >  > > >>not revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without 
detailed
 >  > > >>investigation.
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>I don't think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened to to
 >  > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That's not only unprinicipled, but opportunist
 >  > > >>because they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
 >  > > >>revolutionary practice of the campaign.  This dissing of
 >revolutionary
 >  > > >>practice is predicated on the less-significant alliances formed
 >with
 >  > > >>Greens and Republicans.
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>It's precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current trends
 >in
 >  > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem credible 
in
 >  > > >>this ongoing debate.
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>I'm going to end with a question, because now I'm listening---
 >  > > >>Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our practice?
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>
 >  > > >>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
 >wrote:
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> > Totally agreed that the movement needs "technicians and
 >progressive
 >  > > >> > professionsals...(look, i'm a college student studying to be an
 >  > > >>architect
 >  > > >> > which is about as technical  as you can get)  But the point is
 >that
 >  > > >>we need
 >  > > >> > to sort out the question of what the United Front is, and why
 >the
 >  > > >>campaign
 >  > > >> > lacked a working class base.
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> > Here's an anecdote: I was just working with this third-wrold
 >  >grassroots
 >  > > >> > coalition on building a full scale model house in the United
 >  >Nations
 >  > > >>for a
 >  > > >> > convention on low-income housing.  After a week of working
 >  >together,
 >  > > >>I asked
 >  > > >> > their leader, Jokin, an old Indian man, how I could join the
 >  > > >>organization.
 >  > > >> > He looked at me puzzled, and asked me, WHy do you ask how you
 >can
 >  > > >>join what
 >  > > >> > you've already joined?!  That's the difference in the mode of
 >  > > >>organizing,
 >  > > >> > and it's a consciousness that comes *from* the grassroots,
 >  >*not* the
 >  > > >> > technical progressives.  & When I say that there is a dominant
 >  > > >>tendancy, or
 >  > > >> > ideology, that represents the "progressive professional" it
 >doesn't
 >  > > >>mean
 >  > > >> > that you, Flavio, not needed (BTW I haven't had my court date
 >  > > >>rescheduled
 >  > > >> > yet ;)  ...it means that something else is lacking, and has
 >  > > >>historically
 >  > > >> > been so. And that is the working class.  & It is only with
 >working
 >  > > >>class
 >  > > >> > consciousness that **revolutionary democracy** will not be
 >  >compromised,
 >  > > >> > because the W.C. doesn't have the option of "getting jobs" like
 >so
 >  > > >>many of
 >  > > >> > our parents generation did......So it is *of necessity* that 
the
 >  > > >>W.C. will
 >  > > >> > ultimately inspire all of us progressive and revolutionary
 >  > > >>technicians to
 >  > > >> > get it together and participate in the construction of an
 >  >actual United
 >  > > >> > Front against this mess. and for democracy, by any means
 >necessary.
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> > -Matt
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> > ----Original Message Follows----
 >  > > >> > From: Groovemeister007@y...
 >  > > >> > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
 >  > > >> > To: nbpcmembers@y...
 >  > > >> > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the
 >Essence
 >  > > >> > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:56:10 -0000
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> > It is my understanding that even Mao advocated that political
 >  >leaders
 >  > > >> > had to be both "red and expert," i.e. to understand both
 >  >politics as
 >  > > >> > well as more technical matters such as industry (or even law).
 >  > > >> > Not "red and ignorant" or "red and alienating."  As he
 >explained,
 >a
 >  > > >> > person with only a political line is "pseudo-red, 
empty-headedly
 >  > > >> > political."
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> > The campaign needs technicians in its ranks.  I also believe
 >  >that to
 >  > > >> > be "advanced" one must have more than a class consciousness.
 >While
 >  > > >> > petition signatures were being collected for the 2000 board of
 >  >ed and
 >  > > >> > municipal elections, some turkeys decided it would be
 >  >permissible to
 >  > > >> > get signatures from people living in _North_ Brunswick (which
 >are
 >  > > >> > invalid in a _New_ Brunswick election).  Just recently, some
 >other
 >  > > >> > turkeys on the other egroup advocated letters to USA Cleary
 >asking
 >  > > >> > him to "overturn" a judge's ruling nullifying a jury verdict
 >(Can't
 >  > > >> > happen because of separation of powers).  One point of the NBPC
 >  > > >> > platform demands: "Pass rent control legislation to stop all
 >rent
 >  > > >> > increases except those necessary to preserve a fair rate of
 >return
 >  > > >> > for landlords' investments, such as to cover repairs and
 >  >improvements
 >  > > >> > to building by the owner, requiring the approval of a
 >  >democratically-
 >  > > >> > elected Rent Control Board and never to exceed cost of living
 >  > > >> > increase for that year."  This is despite the fact that NB has
 >just
 >  > > >> > such a rent control ordinance, albeit one that is
 >  > > >> > underenforced/unenforced and without vacancy control.
 >  >Shouldn't the
 >  > > >> > nonenforcement/vacancy control have been the emphasis of the
 >rent
 >  > > >> > point, rather than demanding something already on the books?
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> > I could go on but in sum, my question is: who is doing the
 >  >technical
 >  > > >> > homework on our political work and outreach?
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> > Credibility matters, whether we like it or not.  Part of
 >  >credibility
 >  > > >> > is technical accuracy.  (Proper grammar, spelling, and use of
 >  >English
 >  > > >> > capitalization rules also help, a point sorely lost on many of
 >the
 >  > > >> > purportedly "advanced" people who are using the other egroup).
 >  > > >> > Technical accuracy and the precision of a message can be
 >  >enhanced by
 >  > > >> > welcoming progressives into the campaign who share the
 >campaign's
 >  > > >> > goals and who have the relevant technical and professional
 >  > > >> > knowledge.  Indeed, if we are going to participate in electoral
 >  > > >> > politics, I'd rather have the progressive technician who
 >  >understands
 >  > > >> > how to get our candidates' names on the ballot participating 
in,
 >  > > >> > even "dominating" things, rather than the sloganeer whose can
 >mouth
 >  > > >> > a "purer" political consciousness than that of the progressive
 >  > > >> > technician/professional.
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
 >  > > >> >  > Kris-
 >  > > >> >  >
 >  > > >> >  > *My choice of phrasing "landlords & lawyer types", though 
not
 >  > > >> > intended to be
 >  > > >> >  > a put down, could be read as such.  I'll rephrase it more
 >  > > >> > accurately & point
 >  > > >> >  > out that the 'political line' of nbpcmembers is/has been
 >  >dominated
 >  > > >> > by the
 >  > > >> >  > class consciousness of the 'progressive professional'.
 >  > > >> >  >
 >  > > >> >  > *From my observations, SWORD has been closer to the working
 >  >class
 >  > > >> > community
 >  > > >> >  > on the street, irregardless of the criticisms that have been
 >  >made
 >  > > >> > against
 >  > > >> >  > them.  At one time, the NBPB Coalition held that honor.  but
 >  >NJFO
 >  > > >> > has been
 >  > > >> >  > historically campus/student oriented and while the NBPC had
 >made
 >  > > >> > inroads
 >  > > >> >  > into the community, it's base is still vastly made up of
 >  >students &
 >  > > >> >  > graduates.
 >  > > >> >  >
 >  > > >> >  > *I'm unclear as to why you immmediately conclude that
 >advocating
 >  > > >> >  > 'revolutionary democracy' equates to "vicious, slanderous,
 >  > > >> >  > negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering?"  I've
 >consistantly
 >  > > >> > criticized
 >  > > >> >  > what I view to be 'ultra-leftist' tendencies and
 >'murder-mouth'
 >  > > >> >  > sloganeering, but I refuse to give up my ideas and my
 >  >experiences
 >  > > >> > because
 >  > > >> >  > I'm afraid I might be confused with someone else...I agree
 >  >that it
 >  > > >> > is time
 >  > > >> >  > to move on and find a new basis for unity and not to keep
 >  >beating
 >  > > >> > the same
 >  > > >> >  > old horse, but let the records note that I strongly feel 
that
 >  > > >> > NJFO 'gave up'
 >  > > >> >  > it's 'revolutionary democratic' *ideological conclusion*
 >  >based on
 >  > > >> > the hard
 >  > > >> >  > fought and won experience of breaking out of the CU
 >shell...in
 >  > > >> > other words,
 >  > > >> >  > the butterfly never left the branch.
 >  > > >> >  >
 >  > > >> >  > This is why I now feel that the most pressing issue *still*
 >  >is the
 >  > > >> > nature of
 >  > > >> >  > revolutionary democracy* and how that is represented in a
 >United
 >  > > >> > Front. (I
 >  > > >> >  > think we agree that we disagree on this, but precisely what
 >  >are the
 >  > > >> > points
 >  > > >> >  > of contention. What do we agree on, and what do we disagree
 >  >on in
 >  > > >> > substance
 >  > > >> >  > not form.  If I curse and you don't like that, it doesn't
 >  >get any
 >  > > >> > closer to
 >  > > >> >  > the heart of the matter.  But if I scream at you or slander
 >you
 >  > > >> > because
 >  > > >> >  > you're not revolutionary enough, then it does get to the
 >heart
 >  > > >> > because it
 >  > > >> >  > shows that I'm not that interested in building unity with
 >you.
 >I
 >  > > >> > think we
 >  > > >> >  > can agree on this much. Now how does this play out...)
 >  > > >> >  >
 >  > > >> >  > * Two more things, and then I'll hang up and listen:
 >  > > >> >  > 1. Please don't put words in my mouth and then compare them
 >to
 >  > > >> > those of
 >  > > >> >  > "right-wing turds".
 >  > > >> >  > 2. I also wish that I had thought of the idea to limit the #
 >of
 >  > > >> > postings to
 >  > > >> >  > one-a-day 'back then'...for one thing, I was too preoccupied
 >  >with
 >  > > >> > my
 >  > > >> >  > revelation that the peoples campaign was not acting as a
 >United
 >  > > >> > Front; that
 >  > > >> >  > NJFO's president had a split with AB and was putting out a
 >  >position
 >  > > >> > against
 >  > > >> >  > publishing U&S (no longer "March Seperately, Strike
 >  >Together") to
 >  > > >> > appease
 >  > > >> >  > the Naderites, Republicans & Landlords; that folks were
 >  >generally
 >  > > >> > abandoning
 >  > > >> >  > U&S as a collective organizer; and the big revalation that
 >this
 >  > > >> > tendency of
 >  > > >> >  > bannings is just that: a tendency with a long history of
 >  >trial and
 >  > > >> > error
 >  > > >> >  > with little to show for itself in terms of creating a 'pure'
 >  >space
 >  > > >> > for some
 >  > > >> >  > kind of 'real' unity.
 >  > > >> >  >
 >  > > >> >  > Look , Kris, we all have a relatively long history together.
 >  >  It's
 >  > > >> > hard to
 >  > > >> >  > have things shaken up as much as they have been.  But alot
 >  >will be
 >  > > >> >  > determined by how we approach our potential for the future,
 >  > > >> > beginning on
 >  > > >> >  > Wed. I'm glad to be a part of the bridge building.  See you
 >  >then.
 >  > > >> > Matt
 >  > > >> >  >
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 >  > > >> > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> >
 >  > > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 >  > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >  > > >> >
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Post ID:1756
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-03 18:19:05
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
Message:

REPUBLICAN is what curtis is (sigh).

i have the articles and quotes from skunk soaries speaking in public back 
when potts got got and skunk was quoting malcolm, now he's black imperialist 
#1 for NJ.

my attempts to build unity have nothing to do with republicans, how bout 
yours?

matt, you go from calling my statements lies to accusing me of slandering 
people - rather why don't you just keep quite and let the truth be 
comprehended for what it is. nobody wants your answers, what we need from 
you is to organize to bury the republicans. where are the articles for U&S 
with all your time to defend republicans? why isn't the newspaper your 
highest priority?

joe

>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
>Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 16:19:33
>
>It's times like this that the internet & e-group thang becomes dangerous.  
>I
>mean, do I take this shit seriously and strangle my monitor as the public
>debate gets dragged down once again into knee deep vitriol, insults and
>slander.  Do I take the gloves off & give this post the back of my hand?  
>Or
>do I just scratch my head and wonder what the hell this guy is thinking (&
>what this has to do with unity building, or anything remotely constructive,
>let alone principled debate from a *communist*), while trying to remember
>that he's actually my blood, even if he chooses to forget...I'm running out
>of answers, folks.
>
>(PS if I thought it would matter for a second to the 2-3 people who think
>Curtis is an imperialist (sigh), I would make the effort to bust out my 
>home
>videos of him speaking in public.)
>
>Yours,or not- Matt
>
>
>Joe wrote:
>
>don't speak too soon matt, ask keith and ask curtis himself. i can produce
>my evidence, you better have your explanation for the people as to why you
>are so tight with el senior. your good word don't amount to a hill'a beans
>papi.
>
>further- matt, curtis is a member of the republican party, how could one
>advocate anything but republican positions from such a base?
>
>your whole practice of latching on to one "spokesperson" and disregarding
>the entire community is now coming full circle. what shall we learn? what
>shall we learn?
>
>further2- where are the articles for the next U&S issue and what can i do 
>to
>facilitate putting out the issue?
>
>joe
>
>  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>  >Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:23:52
>  >
>  >I worked with Curtis for 4 years, and I know that this statement by Joe 
>is
>  >unequivically false.  -Matt
>  >
>  >
>  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>  >Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:47:38 -0400
>  >
>  >curtis has never advocated anything but a republican agenda!!! thus, he
>has
>  >now sealed the deal in an open admission that he is and has been and 
>will
>  >continue to be a member of the republican party. i have documents that
>  >prove
>  >since 1988 - so much for your arguements...
>  >bout them apples??
>  >
>  >shank schundler!
>  >win the peoples' campaign to the people, dump bright/el senior/sinister
>  >ford!!
>  >
>  >the streets are watching --
>  >get on board w/july 4 event in new brunswick
>  >burn confederate flag in front of 218 george street!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,
>  >register voters, promote greasy,
>  >feaster park rally w/food, burn confederate flag2
>  >fireworks provided by the city (burn another confederate flag3?)
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >  >From: shorepaulie@...
>  >  >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >Subject: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>  >  >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:29:05 -0000
>  >  >
>  >  >You can count me in the anti-republican crusade.  I resigned from the
>  >  >Repub committee last year and I'm changing my voter reg asap.
>  >  >
>  >  >About Joe's words:  No doubt, Joe, that the revolutionaries in the
>  >  >NBPC should have been more persistent with open revolutionary calls.
>  >  >But the NBPC itself wasn't a revolutionary org., you know that.
>  >  >
>  >  >But to say the platform wasn't revolutionary-democratic?????? Come 
>on,
>  >  >now.  The platform was straight up community control and all for
>  >  >people's institutions. If that's not rev-dem, then why not?
>  >  >
>  >  >No doubt you guys consistently called for revolution, etc., but you
>  >  >guys weren't following Mao's 'On Handling Contradictions Among the
>  >  >People' when you viciously attacked Curtis for his ambiguous
>  >  >statements.  Curtis didn't back off the platform and he's never
>  >  >stopped advocating for revolutionary democracy, even if he wouldn't
>  >  >call it 'rev-dem', and, I would argue, even while supporting Rev.
>  >  >Soaries with respect to the church (Curtis has never openly supported
>  >  >Soaries-as-Republican).
>  >  >
>  >  >And in hindsight, it was a mistake to align with Bright.  Had we 
>known
>  >  >better, we could have had independent poll workers.  And while Bright
>  >  >does sometimes advocate for the people of NB, and sometimes manages 
>to
>  >  >stink up the machine, keeping the UF together with constant threat
>  >  >from the Right is part of the reason the NBPC is relatively inactive
>  >  >right now.  If we hadn't needed to organize against Frank's right 
>wing
>  >  >attacks, we could have united and consolidated the left much more
>  >  >effectively after the election.
>  >  >
>  >  >You might want to conclude that inclusion of Frank made expulsion of
>  >  >BoL politically more possible.  That's easy to say, but it's wrong.
>  >  >
>  >  >I think BoL's expulsion had more to do with your letter (which was
>  >  >unprincipled and unprofessional political behavior) rather than
>  >  >attempts by NJFO and company to avoid revolutionary struggle.
>  >  >
>  >  >You gotta admit that letter you guys signed was against 'march
>  >  >separately, strike together', a slogan that all NBPC trends supported
>  >  >informally.  What ever happened to winning people over to your
>  >  >position through side-by-side struggle together, or by persuasive
>  >  >arguments that pick up the bucket where it's at?  That's where BoL
>  >  >makes its mistakes- not recognizing contradictions within the rev-dem
>  >  >movement as opportunities to win over your allies, but instead using
>  >  >differences (which are ususally limited in their political scope, I
>  >  >might add), as launching pads for your vitriol dressed in Amiriesque
>  >  >nicknames, and all-out attacks on your allies that forget about 
>unity.
>  >  >
>  >  >That coincides with talking without listening, struggle without 
>unity,
>  >  >and other trends that manifest themselves in meetings, in
>  >  >revolutionary literature, and especially in contentious conversations
>  >  >with individuals.  I think BoL needs to get serious about its 
>personal
>  >  >and political conduct.  You criticize bannings and expulsions but you
>  >  >push your allies up against walls and badger them until they 'agree'
>  >  >with you.
>  >  >
>  >  >This all shows that we need new conventions about unity.  Our old
>  >  >conceptions of 'unity' come from our fight clubs not out of
>  >  >appreciation for the power of revolutionary alliances and the united
>  >  >front.
>  >  >
>  >  >When you say the BoL dominated the Outreach Committee, you're right.
>  >  >The Outreach Committee was the power base of BoL.  They yelled at
>  >  >everyone who wasn't BoL and generally acted in a hostile manner
>  >  >towards people who didn't show an ironclad commitment to canvassing.
>  >  >They did survey and canvass like the Dickens, but they did their best
>  >  >to alienate everyone else.
>  >  >
>  >  >When I think about cultural revolution, I think about these things.
>  >  >
>  >  >Paul
>  >  >
>  >  >--- In njfo@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>  >  > > (re: paul)
>  >  > >
>  >  > > through seeing who is being organized to your positions and why.
>  >  > >
>  >  > > not so insignificant as you might think, uniting with republicans.
>  >  > > why don't you explain to jayson hankins and myself why you would
>  >  > > rather have fucbright on the steering committee than himself?
>  >  > >
>  >  > > i am not and never have been anti-nbpc, nor am i ultra-left.
>  >  > >
>  >  > > to claim that the nbpc represented the working class with a
>  >  >revolutionary
>  >  > > democratic program is a lie, lier. xavier and njfo members led the
>  >  >expulsion
>  >  > > of any open revolutionary democratic programs being organized in 
>the
>  >  > > peoples' campaign. let alone the bankrupt attack and guttering of
>the
>  >  > > national election. since BOL and others from nb were/ARE expelled,
>  >  >there has
>  >  > > yet to be any open revolutionary programs put forward by the nbpc.
>  >  > >
>  >  > > yes the nbpc talked to thousands of nb working class residents
>  >  >through the
>  >  > > canvass which was organized by the outreach committee which was 
>led
>  >  >by BOL.
>  >  > > the motorcade, the surveys, the picnic were all organized through
>the
>  >  > > outreach committee which was dominated by BOL. where is the 
>outreach
>  >  > > committee now?, where is any public display of the nbpc?
>  >  > >
>  >  > > you never explained to the people that you were/ARE all registered
>  >  > > REPUBLICANS!
>  >  > >
>  >  > > as far as what % of the working class vote nbpc received, the 
>losing
>  >%.
>  >  > >
>  >  > > Beat Bush!! Nix Nader!! sound familiar Flavier?
>  >  > >
>  >  > > if there is a working class base organized promoting revolutionary
>  >  > > democratic programs in nb, where is it? and how can SWORD get
>  >involved?
>  >  > >
>  >  > > why do we as revolutionaries build allainces? not to drop our OPEN
>  >  > > AND ABOVE BOARD revolutionary positions, but to further them.
>  >currently
>  >  > > there are more nb people agreeing with republican positions on
>public
>  >  > > housing than are agreeing with revolutionary democratic positions 
>on
>  >  >public
>  >  > > housing. or is there not a difference??????????????????????
>  >  > >
>  >  > > nbpc recieved 1900+ votes for republican candidates for city
>  >  >council. how
>  >  > > many votes did nbpc receive for revolutionary democracy?
>  >  > >
>  >  > >                    000000
>  >  > >                   0      0
>  >  > >                  0        0
>  >  > >                 0          0
>  >  > >                 0          0
>  >  > >                 0          0
>  >  > >                  0        0
>  >  > >                   0      0
>  >  > >                    000000
>  >  > >
>  >  > > you can't play me
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > > >From: shorepaulie@h...
>  >  > > >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  >  > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  >  > > >>Subject: [nbpc] working class base?
>  >  > > >>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:58:06 -0000
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>Matt wrote:  But the point is that we need
>  >  > > >> > to sort out ... why the campaign lacked a working class base.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>Paul writes:  Yea, I think that's the bottom line issue here.
>  >Matthew
>  >  > > >>and others have contended that we didn't reach the working class
>  >with
>  >  > > >>the NBPC.  I can't think of many things farther from the truth.
>  >I've
>  >  > > >>personally tried to convey this so many times....that we spoke
>with
>  >  > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with community
>  >  > > >>control, down with the platform, down with democracy.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>As some may guess, many of these working class people whom I
>  >  > > >>personally met can talk the issues much better than some local
>  >  > > >>'organizers' and many of the 'advanced' who need to learn to
>  >listen.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>You say we didn't have a working class base, but the platform 
>was
>  >  > > >>derived from conversation with mainly working class people.  The
>  >  > > >>tactics on canvass were derived mainly from conversations, that
>is,
>  >  > > >>informal agitation and propaganda among the broad mass of 
>working
>  >  > > >>class people in NB.  We reinforced our emphases based on 
>continued
>  >  > > >>interaction.  We had working class people out in the field, in 
>our
>  >  > > >>meetings, working on election day, spreading the buzz of the 
>NBPC,
>  >  >etc.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>But you may still say we lacked working class base.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>As a communist, I'll say that our most important job is to
>  >represent
>  >  > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible.  I think
>my
>  >  > > >>arguments, which are well-honed now that I've repeated them so
>many
>  >  > > >>times, stand for themselves.  You can say my premises are wrong
>and
>  >my
>  >  > > >>experience non-scientific, but that's how I and others stand on
>the
>  >  > > >>campaign experience.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>As far as getting out the working class vote goes,  we don't yet
>  >know
>  >  > > >>what percentage of our vote was working class.  I think that
>  >deserves
>  >  > > >>much attention:  at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other
>  >night,
>  >  > > >>the NBPC was roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in
>which
>  >  > > >>revolutionaries sold out their principles to form partnerships
>with
>  >  > > >>pro-Bush forces.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>That conclusion, embraced mainly by the far Left among us, 
>ignores
>  >the
>  >  > > >>political experience of the campaign as it relates to the
>political
>  >  > > >>experience of the working class voters of NB.  To dismiss the
>  >campaign
>  >  > > >>on the grounds of two strategic alliances which barely affected
>  >  > > >>tactics is to ignore the largest question of progressive and
>  >  > > >>revolutionary politics....that is:   how do we mobilize the
>working
>  >  > > >>class and in doing that, what tasks are principal for
>  >pro-democratic
>  >  > > >>forces who would mobilize the political disfranchised classes. 
>Any
>  >  > > >>analysis of these questions has to take practice into account. 
>But
>  >  > > >>this type of practice was not on the agenda on Wednesday in
>Newark.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it
>certainly
>  >  > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who 
>contend
>  >that
>  >  > > >>the campaign didn't have a working class base, that the campaign
>  >was
>  >  > > >>not revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without
>detailed
>  >  > > >>investigation.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>I don't think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened to 
>to
>  >  > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That's not only unprinicipled, but 
>opportunist
>  >  > > >>because they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
>  >  > > >>revolutionary practice of the campaign.  This dissing of
>  >revolutionary
>  >  > > >>practice is predicated on the less-significant alliances formed
>  >with
>  >  > > >>Greens and Republicans.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>It's precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current 
>trends
>  >in
>  >  > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem credible
>in
>  >  > > >>this ongoing debate.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>I'm going to end with a question, because now I'm listening---
>  >  > > >>Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our practice?
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
>  >wrote:
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > Totally agreed that the movement needs "technicians and
>  >progressive
>  >  > > >> > professionsals...(look, i'm a college student studying to be 
>an
>  >  > > >>architect
>  >  > > >> > which is about as technical  as you can get)  But the point 
>is
>  >that
>  >  > > >>we need
>  >  > > >> > to sort out the question of what the United Front is, and why
>  >the
>  >  > > >>campaign
>  >  > > >> > lacked a working class base.
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > Here's an anecdote: I was just working with this third-wrold
>  >  >grassroots
>  >  > > >> > coalition on building a full scale model house in the United
>  >  >Nations
>  >  > > >>for a
>  >  > > >> > convention on low-income housing.  After a week of working
>  >  >together,
>  >  > > >>I asked
>  >  > > >> > their leader, Jokin, an old Indian man, how I could join the
>  >  > > >>organization.
>  >  > > >> > He looked at me puzzled, and asked me, WHy do you ask how you
>  >can
>  >  > > >>join what
>  >  > > >> > you've already joined?!  That's the difference in the mode of
>  >  > > >>organizing,
>  >  > > >> > and it's a consciousness that comes *from* the grassroots,
>  >  >*not* the
>  >  > > >> > technical progressives.  & When I say that there is a 
>dominant
>  >  > > >>tendancy, or
>  >  > > >> > ideology, that represents the "progressive professional" it
>  >doesn't
>  >  > > >>mean
>  >  > > >> > that you, Flavio, not needed (BTW I haven't had my court date
>  >  > > >>rescheduled
>  >  > > >> > yet ;)  ...it means that something else is lacking, and has
>  >  > > >>historically
>  >  > > >> > been so. And that is the working class.  & It is only with
>  >working
>  >  > > >>class
>  >  > > >> > consciousness that **revolutionary democracy** will not be
>  >  >compromised,
>  >  > > >> > because the W.C. doesn't have the option of "getting jobs" 
>like
>  >so
>  >  > > >>many of
>  >  > > >> > our parents generation did......So it is *of necessity* that
>the
>  >  > > >>W.C. will
>  >  > > >> > ultimately inspire all of us progressive and revolutionary
>  >  > > >>technicians to
>  >  > > >> > get it together and participate in the construction of an
>  >  >actual United
>  >  > > >> > Front against this mess. and for democracy, by any means
>  >necessary.
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > -Matt
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > ----Original Message Follows----
>  >  > > >> > From: Groovemeister007@y...
>  >  > > >> > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  >  > > >> > To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  >  > > >> > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the
>  >Essence
>  >  > > >> > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:56:10 -0000
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > It is my understanding that even Mao advocated that political
>  >  >leaders
>  >  > > >> > had to be both "red and expert," i.e. to understand both
>  >  >politics as
>  >  > > >> > well as more technical matters such as industry (or even 
>law).
>  >  > > >> > Not "red and ignorant" or "red and alienating."  As he
>  >explained,
>  >a
>  >  > > >> > person with only a political line is "pseudo-red,
>empty-headedly
>  >  > > >> > political."
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > The campaign needs technicians in its ranks.  I also believe
>  >  >that to
>  >  > > >> > be "advanced" one must have more than a class consciousness.
>  >While
>  >  > > >> > petition signatures were being collected for the 2000 board 
>of
>  >  >ed and
>  >  > > >> > municipal elections, some turkeys decided it would be
>  >  >permissible to
>  >  > > >> > get signatures from people living in _North_ Brunswick (which
>  >are
>  >  > > >> > invalid in a _New_ Brunswick election).  Just recently, some
>  >other
>  >  > > >> > turkeys on the other egroup advocated letters to USA Cleary
>  >asking
>  >  > > >> > him to "overturn" a judge's ruling nullifying a jury verdict
>  >(Can't
>  >  > > >> > happen because of separation of powers).  One point of the 
>NBPC
>  >  > > >> > platform demands: "Pass rent control legislation to stop all
>  >rent
>  >  > > >> > increases except those necessary to preserve a fair rate of
>  >return
>  >  > > >> > for landlords' investments, such as to cover repairs and
>  >  >improvements
>  >  > > >> > to building by the owner, requiring the approval of a
>  >  >democratically-
>  >  > > >> > elected Rent Control Board and never to exceed cost of living
>  >  > > >> > increase for that year."  This is despite the fact that NB 
>has
>  >just
>  >  > > >> > such a rent control ordinance, albeit one that is
>  >  > > >> > underenforced/unenforced and without vacancy control.
>  >  >Shouldn't the
>  >  > > >> > nonenforcement/vacancy control have been the emphasis of the
>  >rent
>  >  > > >> > point, rather than demanding something already on the books?
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > I could go on but in sum, my question is: who is doing the
>  >  >technical
>  >  > > >> > homework on our political work and outreach?
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > Credibility matters, whether we like it or not.  Part of
>  >  >credibility
>  >  > > >> > is technical accuracy.  (Proper grammar, spelling, and use of
>  >  >English
>  >  > > >> > capitalization rules also help, a point sorely lost on many 
>of
>  >the
>  >  > > >> > purportedly "advanced" people who are using the other 
>egroup).
>  >  > > >> > Technical accuracy and the precision of a message can be
>  >  >enhanced by
>  >  > > >> > welcoming progressives into the campaign who share the
>  >campaign's
>  >  > > >> > goals and who have the relevant technical and professional
>  >  > > >> > knowledge.  Indeed, if we are going to participate in 
>electoral
>  >  > > >> > politics, I'd rather have the progressive technician who
>  >  >understands
>  >  > > >> > how to get our candidates' names on the ballot participating
>in,
>  >  > > >> > even "dominating" things, rather than the sloganeer whose can
>  >mouth
>  >  > > >> > a "purer" political consciousness than that of the 
>progressive
>  >  > > >> > technician/professional.
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> 
>wrote:
>  >  > > >> >  > Kris-
>  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  > > >> >  > *My choice of phrasing "landlords & lawyer types", though
>not
>  >  > > >> > intended to be
>  >  > > >> >  > a put down, could be read as such.  I'll rephrase it more
>  >  > > >> > accurately & point
>  >  > > >> >  > out that the 'political line' of nbpcmembers is/has been
>  >  >dominated
>  >  > > >> > by the
>  >  > > >> >  > class consciousness of the 'progressive professional'.
>  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  > > >> >  > *From my observations, SWORD has been closer to the 
>working
>  >  >class
>  >  > > >> > community
>  >  > > >> >  > on the street, irregardless of the criticisms that have 
>been
>  >  >made
>  >  > > >> > against
>  >  > > >> >  > them.  At one time, the NBPB Coalition held that honor.  
>but
>  >  >NJFO
>  >  > > >> > has been
>  >  > > >> >  > historically campus/student oriented and while the NBPC 
>had
>  >made
>  >  > > >> > inroads
>  >  > > >> >  > into the community, it's base is still vastly made up of
>  >  >students &
>  >  > > >> >  > graduates.
>  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  > > >> >  > *I'm unclear as to why you immmediately conclude that
>  >advocating
>  >  > > >> >  > 'revolutionary democracy' equates to "vicious, slanderous,
>  >  > > >> >  > negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering?"  I've
>  >consistantly
>  >  > > >> > criticized
>  >  > > >> >  > what I view to be 'ultra-leftist' tendencies and
>  >'murder-mouth'
>  >  > > >> >  > sloganeering, but I refuse to give up my ideas and my
>  >  >experiences
>  >  > > >> > because
>  >  > > >> >  > I'm afraid I might be confused with someone else...I agree
>  >  >that it
>  >  > > >> > is time
>  >  > > >> >  > to move on and find a new basis for unity and not to keep
>  >  >beating
>  >  > > >> > the same
>  >  > > >> >  > old horse, but let the records note that I strongly feel
>that
>  >  > > >> > NJFO 'gave up'
>  >  > > >> >  > it's 'revolutionary democratic' *ideological conclusion*
>  >  >based on
>  >  > > >> > the hard
>  >  > > >> >  > fought and won experience of breaking out of the CU
>  >shell...in
>  >  > > >> > other words,
>  >  > > >> >  > the butterfly never left the branch.
>  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  > > >> >  > This is why I now feel that the most pressing issue 
>*still*
>  >  >is the
>  >  > > >> > nature of
>  >  > > >> >  > revolutionary democracy* and how that is represented in a
>  >United
>  >  > > >> > Front. (I
>  >  > > >> >  > think we agree that we disagree on this, but precisely 
>what
>  >  >are the
>  >  > > >> > points
>  >  > > >> >  > of contention. What do we agree on, and what do we 
>disagree
>  >  >on in
>  >  > > >> > substance
>  >  > > >> >  > not form.  If I curse and you don't like that, it doesn't
>  >  >get any
>  >  > > >> > closer to
>  >  > > >> >  > the heart of the matter.  But if I scream at you or 
>slander
>  >you
>  >  > > >> > because
>  >  > > >> >  > you're not revolutionary enough, then it does get to the
>  >heart
>  >  > > >> > because it
>  >  > > >> >  > shows that I'm not that interested in building unity with
>  >you.
>  >I
>  >  > > >> > think we
>  >  > > >> >  > can agree on this much. Now how does this play out...)
>  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  > > >> >  > * Two more things, and then I'll hang up and listen:
>  >  > > >> >  > 1. Please don't put words in my mouth and then compare 
>them
>  >to
>  >  > > >> > those of
>  >  > > >> >  > "right-wing turds".
>  >  > > >> >  > 2. I also wish that I had thought of the idea to limit the 
>#
>  >of
>  >  > > >> > postings to
>  >  > > >> >  > one-a-day 'back then'...for one thing, I was too 
>preoccupied
>  >  >with
>  >  > > >> > my
>  >  > > >> >  > revelation that the peoples campaign was not acting as a
>  >United
>  >  > > >> > Front; that
>  >  > > >> >  > NJFO's president had a split with AB and was putting out a
>  >  >position
>  >  > > >> > against
>  >  > > >> >  > publishing U&S (no longer "March Seperately, Strike
>  >  >Together") to
>  >  > > >> > appease
>  >  > > >> >  > the Naderites, Republicans & Landlords; that folks were
>  >  >generally
>  >  > > >> > abandoning
>  >  > > >> >  > U&S as a collective organizer; and the big revalation that
>  >this
>  >  > > >> > tendency of
>  >  > > >> >  > bannings is just that: a tendency with a long history of
>  >  >trial and
>  >  > > >> > error
>  >  > > >> >  > with little to show for itself in terms of creating a 
>'pure'
>  >  >space
>  >  > > >> > for some
>  >  > > >> >  > kind of 'real' unity.
>  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  > > >> >  > Look , Kris, we all have a relatively long history 
>together.
>  >  >  It's
>  >  > > >> > hard to
>  >  > > >> >  > have things shaken up as much as they have been.  But alot
>  >  >will be
>  >  > > >> >  > determined by how we approach our potential for the 
>future,
>  >  > > >> > beginning on
>  >  > > >> >  > Wed. I'm glad to be a part of the bridge building.  See 
>you
>  >  >then.
>  >  > > >> > Matt
>  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  >  > > >> > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  >  > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >_________________________________________________________________
>  >  > > >> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>  >http://explorer.msn.com
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > > _________________________________________________________________
>  >  > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>  >  >
>  >
>  >_________________________________________________________________
>  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>  >
>  >
>  >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>  >
>  >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>  >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>  >
>  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
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>  >
>  >
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>  >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1757
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-03 18:19:15
Subject:Fwd: Pacifica Campaign Update
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: Juan Gonzalez <pacificacampaign@...>
To: Juan Gonzalez <pacificacampaign@...>
Subject: Pacifica Campaign Update
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 17:37:17 -0400

To: Pacifica Campaign Supporters
From: Juan Gonzalez
Date: July 3, 2001

Update on:
1) The pressure campaign against the Pacifica Board
2) Recent agent provocateur-type break-ins
3) Status of a possible negotiated settlement

Our campaign to take back Pacifica continues to move forward.

Since my last update to you three weeks ago, we have kept up the pressure on
the group of hijackers who remain on the board, while we wait to see the
results of any negotiations between them and representatives of the three
California lawsuits.

In New York City, we have worked with Concerned Friends of WBAI
(http://www.wbaiaction.org/) and Community for Progressive Radio (CPR) to
organize weekly pickets outside the office/home of board member Andrea
Cisco, and some of us have talked with Cisco and urged her to resign. In
Houston, free speech activists are picketing and protesting renegade
Pacifica board member Valrie Chambers. Pacifica reform activists in Los
Angeles, San Francisco and throughout the country have kept up enormous
pressure on the National Association of Home Builders (NAHB) to get Pacifica
board vice-chair and NAHB official Ken Ford to resign.

We are planning a National Day of Action on the NAHB for July 10, 2001.
Since there are 800 chapters of NAHB around the country, there is probably
one in your area where you can organize a protest. To get more information,
call our office at 1-800-797-6229.

This is an important day of action in defense of free speech. The NAHB has
threatened legal action against a web site through which listeners have sent
more than 800,000 protest emails and faxes. "This is one more case of the
people who took over our free-speech radio network trying to stifle the
speech of others," said Steve Freedkin, operator of the Progressive Portal
web site (http://www.progressiveportal.org) which has coordinated the letter
writing campaign. Previously, Pacifica threatened several other protest
sites with lawsuits, but it relented in the face of nationwide outrage.

NAHB pressure against Progressive Portal's web hosting service temporarily
forced Freedkin to stop the letters. But he idenfitied an alternative host
and the letter-writing has resumed without interruption. Meanwhile, Freedkin
is supported by the Public Citizen Litigation Group of Washington, DC.
"Public Citizen is concerned that the attempts by Pacifica and NAHB to
silence their critics could have a chilling effect on Internet activism,"
said Paul Levy, an attorney with Public Citizen.

The NAHB's Ken Ford is especially important now because he is acting
chairman of the board since the resignation of Pacifica Chair David Acosta.
Ford is also the one who has threatened to bring in the Federal Bureau of
Investigation (FBI) to investigate Pacifica activists who utilize their
constitutional rights of free speech to complain to board members about
their policies. Any of you who have received such threats from Ford, should
not worry. Merely calling a board member or sending an e-mail to someone
whose actions you oppose is not an illegal act in the United States -- at
least not yet. As we have repeatedly said, you should be polite and
respectful in all communications to Ford and his crew, and should refrain
from any threats in any form. We abhor and condemn racial, ethnic or sexist
slurs of any kind.

We urge you to join efforts in your city to keep pressure on the remaining
hijackers, including Bob Farrell in Los Angeles and Wendell Johns, Bert Lee
and John Murdock in Washington, DC. Since they hold a bare 7-5 majority on
the board now, the resignation of three more would signal an outright
victory for our movement. For information on these board members, visit
http://www.pacificacampaign.org.


Agent Provocateur Activities

In a bizarre and disturbing development, vandals and thieves trashed a
non-profit arts center in Long Island, New York, just hours after it hosted
a Free Pacifica event on June 30. The burglars stole both the box office
safe and a larger upstairs safe that contained approximately $2,500 in cash.
Luckily, neither safe contained the proceeds raised by Saturday's event,
according to cinema co-founder Vic Skolnick. But the burglars caused
extensive damage to the theater's walls, locks, and new computer equipment.
The culprits, whom police suspect hid in the building until after closing,
also destroyed the reel of "Himalaya," a Tibetan-language film, worth more
than $4,000.

Clearly, this was no ordinary burglary. The culprits also left behind
spray-painted slogans on the walls saying: "Stop Supporting WBAI," "No More
WBAI $," and "No More WBAI Broadcasting Here." The obvious intent of this
act was to discredit our movement and to sow confusion and division among
the ranks of our supporters. For more info, see The New York Times article
at http://www.pacificacampaign.org

Amazingly, over the same weekend WBAI producer Gary Null, who is in the
midst of broadcasting a series of interviews on the Pacifica crisis that for
the first time presents both sides of the conflict, also reported a break-in
at his residence. Nothing of value was apparently stolen, but Gary reports
that some files were taken. Could these attacks just be a coincidence? Or
could they be the beginning of an agent provocateur campaign aimed at
subverting our movement? Many of us who are old enough to remember the FBI�s
COINTELPRO can hazard an educated guess.

The Pacifica Campaign extends our solidarity to both the Cinema Arts Center
and Gary Null. At the same time we urge the Pacifica reform community to be
on the lookout for disruptive or irrational acts that might tarnish the
movement's image. Make sure that your demonstrations or protest activities
have a legal observer and be sure to have a video recorder present.

Despite these acts, our movement is gaining strength with each day that
passes. Last week, for example, the 11-member executive committee of the
National Writers Union (NWU) voted to support both the stringer strike
against the Pacifica Network News (PNN) and the Pacifica Campaign's
nationwide boycott of the network. The NWU, the only labor union in the
country for freelance writers, has more than 7,000 members in 17 local
chapters nationwide.

We�ve also been getting important media coverage in the national press.
National Public Radio (NPR) reported on the race baiting at Pacifica station
WBAI in New York. You can listen for yourselves at
http://search.npr.org/cf/cmn/cmnpd01fm.cfm?PrgDate=6%2F21%2F2001&PrgID=3

"We�re talking here today about the European psychological warfare against
Africans. And that�s what the whole thing is about," WBAI interim general
manager Utrice Leid was heard saying on NPR. "I need you stalwart soldiers
out there � This is a call to arms. I told you it�s a war." This kind of
poisonous rhetoric has come to define the "new" WBAI where race baiting,
misogyny, rightwing militia propaganda, and anti-Semitism now rear their
ugly heads.


What Happened to Settlement Talks with Pacifica?

We are hopeful that the board "majority" has finally recognized it cannot
win and is serious about a possible negotiated settlement. From what we
understand, Pacifica attorney Daly Temchine made an initial offer on Monday,
June 18, to lawyers for the three lawsuits -- the listeners' lawsuit, the
dissident board members' lawsuit, and the local advisory boards' lawsuit.
That offer involved a power-sharing structure between both sides that was
immediately rejected. But that was only a starting offer from Pacifica.

Since then, the principals in the three lawsuits have been seeking input
from the overall Pacifica reform movement and reportedly have been preparing
a counter-offer. At the same time, they have requested answers to specific
questions about the financial state of the network before agreeing to enter
any full-scale discussions. They want to be sure that the hijackers have not
looted the assets of the network on their way out the door.

As you might expect, the pace of these preparations for negotiations have
been slow. Litigants are scattered around the country, and each group of
litigants has a different idea of how they should proceed. On top of that,
various Pacifica reform groups who are not involved in the lawsuits, such as
the Pacifica Campaign, Concerned Friends of WBAI, the Coalition for a
Democratic Pacifica (CDP), the Pacifica Listeners Unions, etc., have all
been offering their own "settlement ideas" to the litigants. It is a complex
process and our movement needs to be patient. But we should not become so
patient that we allow the Pacifica Board to get a "second wind" so that it
decides to keep fighting. There are some clear indications that the current
board majority has had enough and that more of its members want "out."

It is my opinion -- and this is only an individual opinion -- that the
sooner the litigants themselves (not just their lawyers) move toward
round-the-clock talks, the better off our movement will be. Preferably, that
should occur within the next few weeks. No one can know for sure how serious
the board is about relinquishing its power until there are face-to-face
talks. Remember, we are now heading into the dog days of summer. By the end
of July and beginning of August, activity on all sides will diminish
considerably. Many people will be forced to take vacations or fulfill family
commitments, which is only natural.

If the litigants do not make an all-out attempt at settlement talks soon,
they may find themselves dragging into September and October  before any
talks begin. That will mean several more months of the network being in
disarray, several more months for the network's managers to reconfigure the
five stations in their own image, several more months of continued
harassment of Democracy Now! host Amy Goodman, of more bannings and firings
-- in short, several more months of horrendous damage to the network we all
love..

This past weekend, for example, the station managers and top staff met
secretly in a New York City hotel. With the board in disarray and the
network racking up huge financial losses from the boycott, the hijackers
dare not even call an official board meeting for fear of the massive
listener protests that will greet them. Still, free speech activists managed
to raid the Pacifica execs meeting in the swank Millenium Hilton Hotel in
downtown Manhattan on June 28, calling for WBAI manager Utrice Leid�s
removal.

In this climate, however, executive director Bessie Wash and station
managers Utrice Leid, Mark Schubb in Los Angeles, and Garland Ganter in
Houston have a freer hand than normal to act as an autonomous coalition of
warlords over their individual stations. Each day that passes, they make
more programming changes and become more emboldened in their determination
to resist democratic reform.

We in the mass movement must redouble our pressure on the board members
while we wait for the litigants to act on Pacifica's offer of negotiations.
Even one more resignation prior to the start of any talks would be an
enormous psychological boost to our side. Let's work to get that one.
Finally, thanks again for your enormous participation in this historic
movement. We are closer to victory than we have ever been.

Hasta La Victoria,

Juan Gonzalez


*******************************************
Tax deductible contributions to support the work of the Pacifica Campaign
may be made to our fiscal sponsor, a 501 (c) (3) organization. Make checks
payable to: Institute for Media Analysis-Pacifica Campaign. Mail to:

The Pacifica Campaign
51 MacDougal St., #80
New York, NY  10012

Check out our web site at http://www.pacificacampaign.org
M

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1758
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-03 18:47:14
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
Message:

1. you are lying about Curtis' track record.
2. "your whole practice of latching on to one "spokesperson" and 
disregarding >the entire community is now coming full circle." is what I 
would call a slanderous, allbeit confused,  statement about me.
3. Your acting like an asshole & I'm getting sick of this shit.  You don't 
express a goddamed ounce of interest in truly finding unity, just shoving 
your self-righteous dogmatism down peoples throats.  So, as far a I'm 
concerned, you can fuck off about U&S till you "wake up", cause you 
obviously haven't sorted out the role of the newspaper as a collective 
organizer, as I hear your last stellar performance at Kimako's would attest. 
  Maybe you want to call AB for another meeting on my behalf.




----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 18:19:05 -0400

REPUBLICAN is what curtis is (sigh).

i have the articles and quotes from skunk soaries speaking in public back
when potts got got and skunk was quoting malcolm, now he's black imperialist
#1 for NJ.

my attempts to build unity have nothing to do with republicans, how bout
yours?

matt, you go from calling my statements lies to accusing me of slandering
people - rather why don't you just keep quite and let the truth be
comprehended for what it is. nobody wants your answers, what we need from
you is to organize to bury the republicans. where are the articles for U&S
with all your time to defend republicans? why isn't the newspaper your
highest priority?

joe

 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
 >Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 16:19:33
 >
 >It's times like this that the internet & e-group thang becomes dangerous.
 >I
 >mean, do I take this shit seriously and strangle my monitor as the public
 >debate gets dragged down once again into knee deep vitriol, insults and
 >slander.  Do I take the gloves off & give this post the back of my hand?
 >Or
 >do I just scratch my head and wonder what the hell this guy is thinking (&
 >what this has to do with unity building, or anything remotely 
constructive,
 >let alone principled debate from a *communist*), while trying to remember
 >that he's actually my blood, even if he chooses to forget...I'm running 
out
 >of answers, folks.
 >
 >(PS if I thought it would matter for a second to the 2-3 people who think
 >Curtis is an imperialist (sigh), I would make the effort to bust out my
 >home
 >videos of him speaking in public.)
 >
 >Yours,or not- Matt
 >
 >
 >Joe wrote:
 >
 >don't speak too soon matt, ask keith and ask curtis himself. i can produce
 >my evidence, you better have your explanation for the people as to why you
 >are so tight with el senior. your good word don't amount to a hill'a beans
 >papi.
 >
 >further- matt, curtis is a member of the republican party, how could one
 >advocate anything but republican positions from such a base?
 >
 >your whole practice of latching on to one "spokesperson" and disregarding
 >the entire community is now coming full circle. what shall we learn? what
 >shall we learn?
 >
 >further2- where are the articles for the next U&S issue and what can i do
 >to
 >facilitate putting out the issue?
 >
 >joe
 >
 >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
 >  >Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:23:52
 >  >
 >  >I worked with Curtis for 4 years, and I know that this statement by Joe
 >is
 >  >unequivically false.  -Matt
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
 >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
 >  >Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:47:38 -0400
 >  >
 >  >curtis has never advocated anything but a republican agenda!!! thus, he
 >has
 >  >now sealed the deal in an open admission that he is and has been and
 >will
 >  >continue to be a member of the republican party. i have documents that
 >  >prove
 >  >since 1988 - so much for your arguements...
 >  >bout them apples??
 >  >
 >  >shank schundler!
 >  >win the peoples' campaign to the people, dump bright/el senior/sinister
 >  >ford!!
 >  >
 >  >the streets are watching --
 >  >get on board w/july 4 event in new brunswick
 >  >burn confederate flag in front of 218 george street!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,
 >  >register voters, promote greasy,
 >  >feaster park rally w/food, burn confederate flag2
 >  >fireworks provided by the city (burn another confederate flag3?)
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >  >From: shorepaulie@...
 >  >  >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
 >  >  >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
 >  >  >Subject: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
 >  >  >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:29:05 -0000
 >  >  >
 >  >  >You can count me in the anti-republican crusade.  I resigned from 
the
 >  >  >Repub committee last year and I'm changing my voter reg asap.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >About Joe's words:  No doubt, Joe, that the revolutionaries in the
 >  >  >NBPC should have been more persistent with open revolutionary calls.
 >  >  >But the NBPC itself wasn't a revolutionary org., you know that.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >But to say the platform wasn't revolutionary-democratic?????? Come
 >on,
 >  >  >now.  The platform was straight up community control and all for
 >  >  >people's institutions. If that's not rev-dem, then why not?
 >  >  >
 >  >  >No doubt you guys consistently called for revolution, etc., but you
 >  >  >guys weren't following Mao's 'On Handling Contradictions Among the
 >  >  >People' when you viciously attacked Curtis for his ambiguous
 >  >  >statements.  Curtis didn't back off the platform and he's never
 >  >  >stopped advocating for revolutionary democracy, even if he wouldn't
 >  >  >call it 'rev-dem', and, I would argue, even while supporting Rev.
 >  >  >Soaries with respect to the church (Curtis has never openly 
supported
 >  >  >Soaries-as-Republican).
 >  >  >
 >  >  >And in hindsight, it was a mistake to align with Bright.  Had we
 >known
 >  >  >better, we could have had independent poll workers.  And while 
Bright
 >  >  >does sometimes advocate for the people of NB, and sometimes manages
 >to
 >  >  >stink up the machine, keeping the UF together with constant threat
 >  >  >from the Right is part of the reason the NBPC is relatively inactive
 >  >  >right now.  If we hadn't needed to organize against Frank's right
 >wing
 >  >  >attacks, we could have united and consolidated the left much more
 >  >  >effectively after the election.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >You might want to conclude that inclusion of Frank made expulsion of
 >  >  >BoL politically more possible.  That's easy to say, but it's wrong.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >I think BoL's expulsion had more to do with your letter (which was
 >  >  >unprincipled and unprofessional political behavior) rather than
 >  >  >attempts by NJFO and company to avoid revolutionary struggle.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >You gotta admit that letter you guys signed was against 'march
 >  >  >separately, strike together', a slogan that all NBPC trends 
supported
 >  >  >informally.  What ever happened to winning people over to your
 >  >  >position through side-by-side struggle together, or by persuasive
 >  >  >arguments that pick up the bucket where it's at?  That's where BoL
 >  >  >makes its mistakes- not recognizing contradictions within the 
rev-dem
 >  >  >movement as opportunities to win over your allies, but instead using
 >  >  >differences (which are ususally limited in their political scope, I
 >  >  >might add), as launching pads for your vitriol dressed in Amiriesque
 >  >  >nicknames, and all-out attacks on your allies that forget about
 >unity.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >That coincides with talking without listening, struggle without
 >unity,
 >  >  >and other trends that manifest themselves in meetings, in
 >  >  >revolutionary literature, and especially in contentious 
conversations
 >  >  >with individuals.  I think BoL needs to get serious about its
 >personal
 >  >  >and political conduct.  You criticize bannings and expulsions but 
you
 >  >  >push your allies up against walls and badger them until they 'agree'
 >  >  >with you.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >This all shows that we need new conventions about unity.  Our old
 >  >  >conceptions of 'unity' come from our fight clubs not out of
 >  >  >appreciation for the power of revolutionary alliances and the united
 >  >  >front.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >When you say the BoL dominated the Outreach Committee, you're right.
 >  >  >The Outreach Committee was the power base of BoL.  They yelled at
 >  >  >everyone who wasn't BoL and generally acted in a hostile manner
 >  >  >towards people who didn't show an ironclad commitment to canvassing.
 >  >  >They did survey and canvass like the Dickens, but they did their 
best
 >  >  >to alienate everyone else.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >When I think about cultural revolution, I think about these things.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >Paul
 >  >  >
 >  >  >--- In njfo@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
 >  >  > > (re: paul)
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > > through seeing who is being organized to your positions and why.
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > > not so insignificant as you might think, uniting with 
republicans.
 >  >  > > why don't you explain to jayson hankins and myself why you would
 >  >  > > rather have fucbright on the steering committee than himself?
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > > i am not and never have been anti-nbpc, nor am i ultra-left.
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > > to claim that the nbpc represented the working class with a
 >  >  >revolutionary
 >  >  > > democratic program is a lie, lier. xavier and njfo members led 
the
 >  >  >expulsion
 >  >  > > of any open revolutionary democratic programs being organized in
 >the
 >  >  > > peoples' campaign. let alone the bankrupt attack and guttering of
 >the
 >  >  > > national election. since BOL and others from nb were/ARE 
expelled,
 >  >  >there has
 >  >  > > yet to be any open revolutionary programs put forward by the 
nbpc.
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > > yes the nbpc talked to thousands of nb working class residents
 >  >  >through the
 >  >  > > canvass which was organized by the outreach committee which was
 >led
 >  >  >by BOL.
 >  >  > > the motorcade, the surveys, the picnic were all organized through
 >the
 >  >  > > outreach committee which was dominated by BOL. where is the
 >outreach
 >  >  > > committee now?, where is any public display of the nbpc?
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > > you never explained to the people that you were/ARE all 
registered
 >  >  > > REPUBLICANS!
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > > as far as what % of the working class vote nbpc received, the
 >losing
 >  >%.
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > > Beat Bush!! Nix Nader!! sound familiar Flavier?
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > > if there is a working class base organized promoting 
revolutionary
 >  >  > > democratic programs in nb, where is it? and how can SWORD get
 >  >involved?
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > > why do we as revolutionaries build allainces? not to drop our 
OPEN
 >  >  > > AND ABOVE BOARD revolutionary positions, but to further them.
 >  >currently
 >  >  > > there are more nb people agreeing with republican positions on
 >public
 >  >  > > housing than are agreeing with revolutionary democratic positions
 >on
 >  >  >public
 >  >  > > housing. or is there not a difference??????????????????????
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > > nbpc recieved 1900+ votes for republican candidates for city
 >  >  >council. how
 >  >  > > many votes did nbpc receive for revolutionary democracy?
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > >                    000000
 >  >  > >                   0      0
 >  >  > >                  0        0
 >  >  > >                 0          0
 >  >  > >                 0          0
 >  >  > >                 0          0
 >  >  > >                  0        0
 >  >  > >                   0      0
 >  >  > >                    000000
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > > you can't play me
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > >
 >  >  > > >From: shorepaulie@h...
 >  >  > > >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 >  >  > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 >  >  > > >>Subject: [nbpc] working class base?
 >  >  > > >>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:58:06 -0000
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>Matt wrote:  But the point is that we need
 >  >  > > >> > to sort out ... why the campaign lacked a working class 
base.
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>Paul writes:  Yea, I think that's the bottom line issue here.
 >  >Matthew
 >  >  > > >>and others have contended that we didn't reach the working 
class
 >  >with
 >  >  > > >>the NBPC.  I can't think of many things farther from the truth.
 >  >I've
 >  >  > > >>personally tried to convey this so many times....that we spoke
 >with
 >  >  > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with community
 >  >  > > >>control, down with the platform, down with democracy.
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>As some may guess, many of these working class people whom I
 >  >  > > >>personally met can talk the issues much better than some local
 >  >  > > >>'organizers' and many of the 'advanced' who need to learn to
 >  >listen.
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>You say we didn't have a working class base, but the platform
 >was
 >  >  > > >>derived from conversation with mainly working class people.  
The
 >  >  > > >>tactics on canvass were derived mainly from conversations, that
 >is,
 >  >  > > >>informal agitation and propaganda among the broad mass of
 >working
 >  >  > > >>class people in NB.  We reinforced our emphases based on
 >continued
 >  >  > > >>interaction.  We had working class people out in the field, in
 >our
 >  >  > > >>meetings, working on election day, spreading the buzz of the
 >NBPC,
 >  >  >etc.
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>But you may still say we lacked working class base.
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>As a communist, I'll say that our most important job is to
 >  >represent
 >  >  > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible.  I 
think
 >my
 >  >  > > >>arguments, which are well-honed now that I've repeated them so
 >many
 >  >  > > >>times, stand for themselves.  You can say my premises are wrong
 >and
 >  >my
 >  >  > > >>experience non-scientific, but that's how I and others stand on
 >the
 >  >  > > >>campaign experience.
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>As far as getting out the working class vote goes,  we don't 
yet
 >  >know
 >  >  > > >>what percentage of our vote was working class.  I think that
 >  >deserves
 >  >  > > >>much attention:  at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other
 >  >night,
 >  >  > > >>the NBPC was roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in
 >which
 >  >  > > >>revolutionaries sold out their principles to form partnerships
 >with
 >  >  > > >>pro-Bush forces.
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>That conclusion, embraced mainly by the far Left among us,
 >ignores
 >  >the
 >  >  > > >>political experience of the campaign as it relates to the
 >political
 >  >  > > >>experience of the working class voters of NB.  To dismiss the
 >  >campaign
 >  >  > > >>on the grounds of two strategic alliances which barely affected
 >  >  > > >>tactics is to ignore the largest question of progressive and
 >  >  > > >>revolutionary politics....that is:   how do we mobilize the
 >working
 >  >  > > >>class and in doing that, what tasks are principal for
 >  >pro-democratic
 >  >  > > >>forces who would mobilize the political disfranchised classes.
 >Any
 >  >  > > >>analysis of these questions has to take practice into account.
 >But
 >  >  > > >>this type of practice was not on the agenda on Wednesday in
 >Newark.
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it
 >certainly
 >  >  > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who
 >contend
 >  >that
 >  >  > > >>the campaign didn't have a working class base, that the 
campaign
 >  >was
 >  >  > > >>not revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without
 >detailed
 >  >  > > >>investigation.
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>I don't think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened to
 >to
 >  >  > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That's not only unprinicipled, but
 >opportunist
 >  >  > > >>because they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
 >  >  > > >>revolutionary practice of the campaign.  This dissing of
 >  >revolutionary
 >  >  > > >>practice is predicated on the less-significant alliances formed
 >  >with
 >  >  > > >>Greens and Republicans.
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>It's precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current
 >trends
 >  >in
 >  >  > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem 
credible
 >in
 >  >  > > >>this ongoing debate.
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>I'm going to end with a question, because now I'm listening---
 >  >  > > >>Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our 
practice?
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>
 >  >  > > >>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
 >  >wrote:
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> > Totally agreed that the movement needs "technicians and
 >  >progressive
 >  >  > > >> > professionsals...(look, i'm a college student studying to be
 >an
 >  >  > > >>architect
 >  >  > > >> > which is about as technical  as you can get)  But the point
 >is
 >  >that
 >  >  > > >>we need
 >  >  > > >> > to sort out the question of what the United Front is, and 
why
 >  >the
 >  >  > > >>campaign
 >  >  > > >> > lacked a working class base.
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> > Here's an anecdote: I was just working with this third-wrold
 >  >  >grassroots
 >  >  > > >> > coalition on building a full scale model house in the United
 >  >  >Nations
 >  >  > > >>for a
 >  >  > > >> > convention on low-income housing.  After a week of working
 >  >  >together,
 >  >  > > >>I asked
 >  >  > > >> > their leader, Jokin, an old Indian man, how I could join the
 >  >  > > >>organization.
 >  >  > > >> > He looked at me puzzled, and asked me, WHy do you ask how 
you
 >  >can
 >  >  > > >>join what
 >  >  > > >> > you've already joined?!  That's the difference in the mode 
of
 >  >  > > >>organizing,
 >  >  > > >> > and it's a consciousness that comes *from* the grassroots,
 >  >  >*not* the
 >  >  > > >> > technical progressives.  & When I say that there is a
 >dominant
 >  >  > > >>tendancy, or
 >  >  > > >> > ideology, that represents the "progressive professional" it
 >  >doesn't
 >  >  > > >>mean
 >  >  > > >> > that you, Flavio, not needed (BTW I haven't had my court 
date
 >  >  > > >>rescheduled
 >  >  > > >> > yet ;)  ...it means that something else is lacking, and has
 >  >  > > >>historically
 >  >  > > >> > been so. And that is the working class.  & It is only with
 >  >working
 >  >  > > >>class
 >  >  > > >> > consciousness that **revolutionary democracy** will not be
 >  >  >compromised,
 >  >  > > >> > because the W.C. doesn't have the option of "getting jobs"
 >like
 >  >so
 >  >  > > >>many of
 >  >  > > >> > our parents generation did......So it is *of necessity* that
 >the
 >  >  > > >>W.C. will
 >  >  > > >> > ultimately inspire all of us progressive and revolutionary
 >  >  > > >>technicians to
 >  >  > > >> > get it together and participate in the construction of an
 >  >  >actual United
 >  >  > > >> > Front against this mess. and for democracy, by any means
 >  >necessary.
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> > -Matt
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> > ----Original Message Follows----
 >  >  > > >> > From: Groovemeister007@y...
 >  >  > > >> > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
 >  >  > > >> > To: nbpcmembers@y...
 >  >  > > >> > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the
 >  >Essence
 >  >  > > >> > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:56:10 -0000
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> > It is my understanding that even Mao advocated that 
political
 >  >  >leaders
 >  >  > > >> > had to be both "red and expert," i.e. to understand both
 >  >  >politics as
 >  >  > > >> > well as more technical matters such as industry (or even
 >law).
 >  >  > > >> > Not "red and ignorant" or "red and alienating."  As he
 >  >explained,
 >  >a
 >  >  > > >> > person with only a political line is "pseudo-red,
 >empty-headedly
 >  >  > > >> > political."
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> > The campaign needs technicians in its ranks.  I also believe
 >  >  >that to
 >  >  > > >> > be "advanced" one must have more than a class consciousness.
 >  >While
 >  >  > > >> > petition signatures were being collected for the 2000 board
 >of
 >  >  >ed and
 >  >  > > >> > municipal elections, some turkeys decided it would be
 >  >  >permissible to
 >  >  > > >> > get signatures from people living in _North_ Brunswick 
(which
 >  >are
 >  >  > > >> > invalid in a _New_ Brunswick election).  Just recently, some
 >  >other
 >  >  > > >> > turkeys on the other egroup advocated letters to USA Cleary
 >  >asking
 >  >  > > >> > him to "overturn" a judge's ruling nullifying a jury verdict
 >  >(Can't
 >  >  > > >> > happen because of separation of powers).  One point of the
 >NBPC
 >  >  > > >> > platform demands: "Pass rent control legislation to stop all
 >  >rent
 >  >  > > >> > increases except those necessary to preserve a fair rate of
 >  >return
 >  >  > > >> > for landlords' investments, such as to cover repairs and
 >  >  >improvements
 >  >  > > >> > to building by the owner, requiring the approval of a
 >  >  >democratically-
 >  >  > > >> > elected Rent Control Board and never to exceed cost of 
living
 >  >  > > >> > increase for that year."  This is despite the fact that NB
 >has
 >  >just
 >  >  > > >> > such a rent control ordinance, albeit one that is
 >  >  > > >> > underenforced/unenforced and without vacancy control.
 >  >  >Shouldn't the
 >  >  > > >> > nonenforcement/vacancy control have been the emphasis of the
 >  >rent
 >  >  > > >> > point, rather than demanding something already on the books?
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> > I could go on but in sum, my question is: who is doing the
 >  >  >technical
 >  >  > > >> > homework on our political work and outreach?
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> > Credibility matters, whether we like it or not.  Part of
 >  >  >credibility
 >  >  > > >> > is technical accuracy.  (Proper grammar, spelling, and use 
of
 >  >  >English
 >  >  > > >> > capitalization rules also help, a point sorely lost on many
 >of
 >  >the
 >  >  > > >> > purportedly "advanced" people who are using the other
 >egroup).
 >  >  > > >> > Technical accuracy and the precision of a message can be
 >  >  >enhanced by
 >  >  > > >> > welcoming progressives into the campaign who share the
 >  >campaign's
 >  >  > > >> > goals and who have the relevant technical and professional
 >  >  > > >> > knowledge.  Indeed, if we are going to participate in
 >electoral
 >  >  > > >> > politics, I'd rather have the progressive technician who
 >  >  >understands
 >  >  > > >> > how to get our candidates' names on the ballot participating
 >in,
 >  >  > > >> > even "dominating" things, rather than the sloganeer whose 
can
 >  >mouth
 >  >  > > >> > a "purer" political consciousness than that of the
 >progressive
 >  >  > > >> > technician/professional.
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
 >wrote:
 >  >  > > >> >  > Kris-
 >  >  > > >> >  >
 >  >  > > >> >  > *My choice of phrasing "landlords & lawyer types", though
 >not
 >  >  > > >> > intended to be
 >  >  > > >> >  > a put down, could be read as such.  I'll rephrase it more
 >  >  > > >> > accurately & point
 >  >  > > >> >  > out that the 'political line' of nbpcmembers is/has been
 >  >  >dominated
 >  >  > > >> > by the
 >  >  > > >> >  > class consciousness of the 'progressive professional'.
 >  >  > > >> >  >
 >  >  > > >> >  > *From my observations, SWORD has been closer to the
 >working
 >  >  >class
 >  >  > > >> > community
 >  >  > > >> >  > on the street, irregardless of the criticisms that have
 >been
 >  >  >made
 >  >  > > >> > against
 >  >  > > >> >  > them.  At one time, the NBPB Coalition held that honor.
 >but
 >  >  >NJFO
 >  >  > > >> > has been
 >  >  > > >> >  > historically campus/student oriented and while the NBPC
 >had
 >  >made
 >  >  > > >> > inroads
 >  >  > > >> >  > into the community, it's base is still vastly made up of
 >  >  >students &
 >  >  > > >> >  > graduates.
 >  >  > > >> >  >
 >  >  > > >> >  > *I'm unclear as to why you immmediately conclude that
 >  >advocating
 >  >  > > >> >  > 'revolutionary democracy' equates to "vicious, 
slanderous,
 >  >  > > >> >  > negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering?"  I've
 >  >consistantly
 >  >  > > >> > criticized
 >  >  > > >> >  > what I view to be 'ultra-leftist' tendencies and
 >  >'murder-mouth'
 >  >  > > >> >  > sloganeering, but I refuse to give up my ideas and my
 >  >  >experiences
 >  >  > > >> > because
 >  >  > > >> >  > I'm afraid I might be confused with someone else...I 
agree
 >  >  >that it
 >  >  > > >> > is time
 >  >  > > >> >  > to move on and find a new basis for unity and not to keep
 >  >  >beating
 >  >  > > >> > the same
 >  >  > > >> >  > old horse, but let the records note that I strongly feel
 >that
 >  >  > > >> > NJFO 'gave up'
 >  >  > > >> >  > it's 'revolutionary democratic' *ideological conclusion*
 >  >  >based on
 >  >  > > >> > the hard
 >  >  > > >> >  > fought and won experience of breaking out of the CU
 >  >shell...in
 >  >  > > >> > other words,
 >  >  > > >> >  > the butterfly never left the branch.
 >  >  > > >> >  >
 >  >  > > >> >  > This is why I now feel that the most pressing issue
 >*still*
 >  >  >is the
 >  >  > > >> > nature of
 >  >  > > >> >  > revolutionary democracy* and how that is represented in a
 >  >United
 >  >  > > >> > Front. (I
 >  >  > > >> >  > think we agree that we disagree on this, but precisely
 >what
 >  >  >are the
 >  >  > > >> > points
 >  >  > > >> >  > of contention. What do we agree on, and what do we
 >disagree
 >  >  >on in
 >  >  > > >> > substance
 >  >  > > >> >  > not form.  If I curse and you don't like that, it doesn't
 >  >  >get any
 >  >  > > >> > closer to
 >  >  > > >> >  > the heart of the matter.  But if I scream at you or
 >slander
 >  >you
 >  >  > > >> > because
 >  >  > > >> >  > you're not revolutionary enough, then it does get to the
 >  >heart
 >  >  > > >> > because it
 >  >  > > >> >  > shows that I'm not that interested in building unity with
 >  >you.
 >  >I
 >  >  > > >> > think we
 >  >  > > >> >  > can agree on this much. Now how does this play out...)
 >  >  > > >> >  >
 >  >  > > >> >  > * Two more things, and then I'll hang up and listen:
 >  >  > > >> >  > 1. Please don't put words in my mouth and then compare
 >them
 >  >to
 >  >  > > >> > those of
 >  >  > > >> >  > "right-wing turds".
 >  >  > > >> >  > 2. I also wish that I had thought of the idea to limit 
the
 >#
 >  >of
 >  >  > > >> > postings to
 >  >  > > >> >  > one-a-day 'back then'...for one thing, I was too
 >preoccupied
 >  >  >with
 >  >  > > >> > my
 >  >  > > >> >  > revelation that the peoples campaign was not acting as a
 >  >United
 >  >  > > >> > Front; that
 >  >  > > >> >  > NJFO's president had a split with AB and was putting out 
a
 >  >  >position
 >  >  > > >> > against
 >  >  > > >> >  > publishing U&S (no longer "March Seperately, Strike
 >  >  >Together") to
 >  >  > > >> > appease
 >  >  > > >> >  > the Naderites, Republicans & Landlords; that folks were
 >  >  >generally
 >  >  > > >> > abandoning
 >  >  > > >> >  > U&S as a collective organizer; and the big revalation 
that
 >  >this
 >  >  > > >> > tendency of
 >  >  > > >> >  > bannings is just that: a tendency with a long history of
 >  >  >trial and
 >  >  > > >> > error
 >  >  > > >> >  > with little to show for itself in terms of creating a
 >'pure'
 >  >  >space
 >  >  > > >> > for some
 >  >  > > >> >  > kind of 'real' unity.
 >  >  > > >> >  >
 >  >  > > >> >  > Look , Kris, we all have a relatively long history
 >together.
 >  >  >  It's
 >  >  > > >> > hard to
 >  >  > > >> >  > have things shaken up as much as they have been.  But 
alot
 >  >  >will be
 >  >  > > >> >  > determined by how we approach our potential for the
 >future,
 >  >  > > >> > beginning on
 >  >  > > >> >  > Wed. I'm glad to be a part of the bridge building.  See
 >you
 >  >  >then.
 >  >  > > >> > Matt
 >  >  > > >> >  >
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 >  >  > > >> > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 >  >  > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >  > > >> >
 >  >_________________________________________________________________
 >  >  > > >> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
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Post ID:1759
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-04 11:32:45
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: Pacifica Campaign Update
Message:

where are the articles for u&s?

joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: Pacifica Campaign Update
>Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 22:19:15
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: Juan Gonzalez <pacificacampaign@...>
>To: Juan Gonzalez <pacificacampaign@...>
>Subject: Pacifica Campaign Update
>Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 17:37:17 -0400
>
>To: Pacifica Campaign Supporters
>From: Juan Gonzalez
>Date: July 3, 2001
>
>Update on:
>1) The pressure campaign against the Pacifica Board
>2) Recent agent provocateur-type break-ins
>3) Status of a possible negotiated settlement
>
>Our campaign to take back Pacifica continues to move forward.
>
>Since my last update to you three weeks ago, we have kept up the pressure 
>on
>the group of hijackers who remain on the board, while we wait to see the
>results of any negotiations between them and representatives of the three
>California lawsuits.
>
>In New York City, we have worked with Concerned Friends of WBAI
>(http://www.wbaiaction.org/) and Community for Progressive Radio (CPR) to
>organize weekly pickets outside the office/home of board member Andrea
>Cisco, and some of us have talked with Cisco and urged her to resign. In
>Houston, free speech activists are picketing and protesting renegade
>Pacifica board member Valrie Chambers. Pacifica reform activists in Los
>Angeles, San Francisco and throughout the country have kept up enormous
>pressure on the National Association of Home Builders (NAHB) to get 
>Pacifica
>board vice-chair and NAHB official Ken Ford to resign.
>
>We are planning a National Day of Action on the NAHB for July 10, 2001.
>Since there are 800 chapters of NAHB around the country, there is probably
>one in your area where you can organize a protest. To get more information,
>call our office at 1-800-797-6229.
>
>This is an important day of action in defense of free speech. The NAHB has
>threatened legal action against a web site through which listeners have 
>sent
>more than 800,000 protest emails and faxes. "This is one more case of the
>people who took over our free-speech radio network trying to stifle the
>speech of others," said Steve Freedkin, operator of the Progressive Portal
>web site (http://www.progressiveportal.org) which has coordinated the 
>letter
>writing campaign. Previously, Pacifica threatened several other protest
>sites with lawsuits, but it relented in the face of nationwide outrage.
>
>NAHB pressure against Progressive Portal's web hosting service temporarily
>forced Freedkin to stop the letters. But he idenfitied an alternative host
>and the letter-writing has resumed without interruption. Meanwhile, 
>Freedkin
>is supported by the Public Citizen Litigation Group of Washington, DC.
>"Public Citizen is concerned that the attempts by Pacifica and NAHB to
>silence their critics could have a chilling effect on Internet activism,"
>said Paul Levy, an attorney with Public Citizen.
>
>The NAHB's Ken Ford is especially important now because he is acting
>chairman of the board since the resignation of Pacifica Chair David Acosta.
>Ford is also the one who has threatened to bring in the Federal Bureau of
>Investigation (FBI) to investigate Pacifica activists who utilize their
>constitutional rights of free speech to complain to board members about
>their policies. Any of you who have received such threats from Ford, should
>not worry. Merely calling a board member or sending an e-mail to someone
>whose actions you oppose is not an illegal act in the United States -- at
>least not yet. As we have repeatedly said, you should be polite and
>respectful in all communications to Ford and his crew, and should refrain
>from any threats in any form. We abhor and condemn racial, ethnic or sexist
>slurs of any kind.
>
>We urge you to join efforts in your city to keep pressure on the remaining
>hijackers, including Bob Farrell in Los Angeles and Wendell Johns, Bert Lee
>and John Murdock in Washington, DC. Since they hold a bare 7-5 majority on
>the board now, the resignation of three more would signal an outright
>victory for our movement. For information on these board members, visit
>http://www.pacificacampaign.org.
>
>
>Agent Provocateur Activities
>
>In a bizarre and disturbing development, vandals and thieves trashed a
>non-profit arts center in Long Island, New York, just hours after it hosted
>a Free Pacifica event on June 30. The burglars stole both the box office
>safe and a larger upstairs safe that contained approximately $2,500 in 
>cash.
>Luckily, neither safe contained the proceeds raised by Saturday's event,
>according to cinema co-founder Vic Skolnick. But the burglars caused
>extensive damage to the theater's walls, locks, and new computer equipment.
>The culprits, whom police suspect hid in the building until after closing,
>also destroyed the reel of "Himalaya," a Tibetan-language film, worth more
>than $4,000.
>
>Clearly, this was no ordinary burglary. The culprits also left behind
>spray-painted slogans on the walls saying: "Stop Supporting WBAI," "No More
>WBAI $," and "No More WBAI Broadcasting Here." The obvious intent of this
>act was to discredit our movement and to sow confusion and division among
>the ranks of our supporters. For more info, see The New York Times article
>at http://www.pacificacampaign.org
>
>Amazingly, over the same weekend WBAI producer Gary Null, who is in the
>midst of broadcasting a series of interviews on the Pacifica crisis that 
>for
>the first time presents both sides of the conflict, also reported a 
>break-in
>at his residence. Nothing of value was apparently stolen, but Gary reports
>that some files were taken. Could these attacks just be a coincidence? Or
>could they be the beginning of an agent provocateur campaign aimed at
>subverting our movement? Many of us who are old enough to remember the 
>FBI1s
>COINTELPRO can hazard an educated guess.
>
>The Pacifica Campaign extends our solidarity to both the Cinema Arts Center
>and Gary Null. At the same time we urge the Pacifica reform community to be
>on the lookout for disruptive or irrational acts that might tarnish the
>movement's image. Make sure that your demonstrations or protest activities
>have a legal observer and be sure to have a video recorder present.
>
>Despite these acts, our movement is gaining strength with each day that
>passes. Last week, for example, the 11-member executive committee of the
>National Writers Union (NWU) voted to support both the stringer strike
>against the Pacifica Network News (PNN) and the Pacifica Campaign's
>nationwide boycott of the network. The NWU, the only labor union in the
>country for freelance writers, has more than 7,000 members in 17 local
>chapters nationwide.
>
>We1ve also been getting important media coverage in the national press.
>National Public Radio (NPR) reported on the race baiting at Pacifica 
>station
>WBAI in New York. You can listen for yourselves at
>http://search.npr.org/cf/cmn/cmnpd01fm.cfm?PrgDate=6%2F21%2F2001&PrgID=3
>
>"We1re talking here today about the European psychological warfare against
>Africans. And that1s what the whole thing is about," WBAI interim general
>manager Utrice Leid was heard saying on NPR. "I need you stalwart soldiers
>out there S This is a call to arms. I told you it1s a war." This kind of
>poisonous rhetoric has come to define the "new" WBAI where race baiting,
>misogyny, rightwing militia propaganda, and anti-Semitism now rear their
>ugly heads.
>
>
>What Happened to Settlement Talks with Pacifica?
>
>We are hopeful that the board "majority" has finally recognized it cannot
>win and is serious about a possible negotiated settlement. From what we
>understand, Pacifica attorney Daly Temchine made an initial offer on 
>Monday,
>June 18, to lawyers for the three lawsuits -- the listeners' lawsuit, the
>dissident board members' lawsuit, and the local advisory boards' lawsuit.
>That offer involved a power-sharing structure between both sides that was
>immediately rejected. But that was only a starting offer from Pacifica.
>
>Since then, the principals in the three lawsuits have been seeking input
>from the overall Pacifica reform movement and reportedly have been 
>preparing
>a counter-offer. At the same time, they have requested answers to specific
>questions about the financial state of the network before agreeing to enter
>any full-scale discussions. They want to be sure that the hijackers have 
>not
>looted the assets of the network on their way out the door.
>
>As you might expect, the pace of these preparations for negotiations have
>been slow. Litigants are scattered around the country, and each group of
>litigants has a different idea of how they should proceed. On top of that,
>various Pacifica reform groups who are not involved in the lawsuits, such 
>as
>the Pacifica Campaign, Concerned Friends of WBAI, the Coalition for a
>Democratic Pacifica (CDP), the Pacifica Listeners Unions, etc., have all
>been offering their own "settlement ideas" to the litigants. It is a 
>complex
>process and our movement needs to be patient. But we should not become so
>patient that we allow the Pacifica Board to get a "second wind" so that it
>decides to keep fighting. There are some clear indications that the current
>board majority has had enough and that more of its members want "out."
>
>It is my opinion -- and this is only an individual opinion -- that the
>sooner the litigants themselves (not just their lawyers) move toward
>round-the-clock talks, the better off our movement will be. Preferably, 
>that
>should occur within the next few weeks. No one can know for sure how 
>serious
>the board is about relinquishing its power until there are face-to-face
>talks. Remember, we are now heading into the dog days of summer. By the end
>of July and beginning of August, activity on all sides will diminish
>considerably. Many people will be forced to take vacations or fulfill 
>family
>commitments, which is only natural.
>
>If the litigants do not make an all-out attempt at settlement talks soon,
>they may find themselves dragging into September and October  before any
>talks begin. That will mean several more months of the network being in
>disarray, several more months for the network's managers to reconfigure the
>five stations in their own image, several more months of continued
>harassment of Democracy Now! host Amy Goodman, of more bannings and firings
>-- in short, several more months of horrendous damage to the network we all
>love..
>
>This past weekend, for example, the station managers and top staff met
>secretly in a New York City hotel. With the board in disarray and the
>network racking up huge financial losses from the boycott, the hijackers
>dare not even call an official board meeting for fear of the massive
>listener protests that will greet them. Still, free speech activists 
>managed
>to raid the Pacifica execs meeting in the swank Millenium Hilton Hotel in
>downtown Manhattan on June 28, calling for WBAI manager Utrice Leid1s
>removal.
>
>In this climate, however, executive director Bessie Wash and station
>managers Utrice Leid, Mark Schubb in Los Angeles, and Garland Ganter in
>Houston have a freer hand than normal to act as an autonomous coalition of
>warlords over their individual stations. Each day that passes, they make
>more programming changes and become more emboldened in their determination
>to resist democratic reform.
>
>We in the mass movement must redouble our pressure on the board members
>while we wait for the litigants to act on Pacifica's offer of negotiations.
>Even one more resignation prior to the start of any talks would be an
>enormous psychological boost to our side. Let's work to get that one.
>Finally, thanks again for your enormous participation in this historic
>movement. We are closer to victory than we have ever been.
>
>Hasta La Victoria,
>
>Juan Gonzalez
>
>
>*******************************************
>Tax deductible contributions to support the work of the Pacifica Campaign
>may be made to our fiscal sponsor, a 501 (c) (3) organization. Make checks
>payable to: Institute for Media Analysis-Pacifica Campaign. Mail to:
>
>The Pacifica Campaign
>51 MacDougal St., #80
>New York, NY  10012
>
>Check out our web site at http://www.pacificacampaign.org
>M
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1760
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-04 12:09:46
Subject:Waste White Supremacy! Shank Schundler!
Message:

       What to the Slave is the Fourth of July? -Fredrick Douglass

  Mr. President, Friends and Fellow Citizens: He who could address this 
audience without a quailing sensation, has stronger nerves than I have. I do 
not remember ever to have appeared as a speaker before any assembly more 
shrinkingly, nor with greater distrust of my ability, than I do this day. A 
feeling has crept over me, quite unfavorable to the exercise of my limited 
powers of speech. The task before me is one which requires much previous 
thought and study for its proper performance. I know that apologies of this 
sort are generally considered flat and unmeaning. I trust, however, that 
mine will not be so considered. Should I seem at ease, my appearance would 
much misrepresent me. The little experience I have had in addressing public 
meetings, in country school houses, avails me nothing on the present 
occasion.

  The papers and placards say, that I am to deliver a 4th [of] July oration. 
This certainly sounds large, and out of the common way, for it is true that 
I have often had the privilege to speak in this beautiful Hall, and to 
address many who now honor me with their presence. But neither their 
familiar faces, nor the perfect gage I think I have of Corinthian Hall, 
seems to free me from embarrassment.

  The fact is, ladies and gentlemen, the distance between this platform and 
the slave plantation, from which I escaped, is considerable - and the 
difficulties to be overcome in getting from the latter to the former, are by 
no means slight. That I am here to-day is, to me, a matter of astonishment 
as well as of gratitude. You will not, therefore, be surprised, if in what I 
have to  say. I evince no elaborate preparation, nor grace my speech with 
any high sounding exordium.

  With little experience and with less learning, I have been able to throw 
my thoughts hastily and imperfectly together; and trusting to your patient 
and generous indulgence, I will proceed to lay them before you.

"May [the reformer]
  not hope that high
lessons of wisdom,
   of justice and of
truth, will yet give
   direction to her
  destiny? Were the
   nation older, the
    patriot's heart
   might be sadder,
  and the reformer's
  brow heavier. . . .
      There is
  consolation in the
    thought that
America is young."

    This, for the purpose of this celebration, is the 4th of July. It is the 
birthday of your National Independence, and of your political freedom. This, 
to you, is what the Passover was to the emancipated people of God. It 
carries your minds back to the day, and to the act of your great 
deliverance; and to the signs, and to the wonders, associated with that act, 
and that day. This celebration also marks the beginning of another year of 
your national life; and reminds you that the Republic of America is now 76 
years old. I am glad, fellow-citizens, that your nation is so young. 
Seventy-six years, though a good old age for a man, is but a mere speck in 
the life of a nation. Three score years and ten is the allotted time for 
individual men; but nations number their years by thousands. According to 
this fact, you are, even now, only in the beginning of your national career, 
still lingering in the period of childhood. I repeat, I am glad this is so. 
There is hope in the thought, and hope is much needed, under the dark clouds 
which lower above the horizon. The eye of the reformer is met with angry 
flashes, portending disastrous times; but his heart may well beat lighter at 
the thought that America is young, and that she is still in the impressible 
stage of her existence. May he not hope that high lessons of wisdom, of 
justice and of truth, will yet give direction to her destiny? Were the 
nation older, the patriot's heart might be sadder, and the reformer's brow 
heavier. Its future might be shrouded in gloom, and the hope of its prophets 
go out in sorrow. There is consolation in the thought that America is young. 
Great streams are not easily turned from channels, worn deep in the course 
of ages. They may sometimes rise in quiet and stately majesty, and inundate 
the land, refreshing and fertilizing the earth with their mysterious 
properties. They may also rise in wrath and fury, and bear away, on their 
angry waves, the accumulated wealth of years of toil and hardship. They, 
however, gradually flow back to the same old channel, and flow on as 
serenely as ever. But, while the river may not be turned aside, it may dry 
up, and leave nothing behind but the withered branch, and the unsightly 
rock, to howl in the abyss-sweeping wind,  the sad tale of departed glory. 
As with rivers so with nations.

   Fellow-citizens, I shall not presume to dwell at length on the 
associations that cluster about this day. The simple story of it is that, 76 
years ago, the people of this country were British subjects. The style and 
title of your "sovereign people" (in which you now glory) was not then born. 
You were under the British Crown . Your fathers esteemed the English 
Government as the home government; and England as the fatherland. This home 
government, you know, although a considerable distance from your home, did, 
in the exercise of its parental prerogatives, impose upon its colonial 
children, such restraints, burdens and limitations, as, in its mature 
judgement, it deemed wise, right and proper.

  But, your fathers, who had not adopted the fashionable idea of this day, 
of the infallibility of government, and the absolute character of its acts, 
presumed to differ from the home government in respect to the wisdom and the 
justice of some of those burdens and restraints. They went so far in their 
excitement as to pronounce the measures of government unjust, unreasonable, 
and oppressive, and altogether such as ought not to be quietly submitted to. 
I scarcely need say, fellow-citizens, that my opinion of those measures 
fully accords with that of your fathers. Such a declaration of agreement on 
my part would not be worth much to anybody. It would, certainly, prove 
nothing, as to what part I might have taken, had I lived during the great 
controversy of 1776. To say now that America was right, and England wrong, 
is exceedingly easy. Everybody can say it; the dastard, not less than the 
noble brave, can flippantly discant on the tyranny of England towards the 
American Colonies. It is fashionable to do so; but there was a time when to 
pronounce against England, and in favor of the cause of the colonies, tried 
men's souls. They who did so were ccounted in their day, plotters of 
mischief, agitators and rebels, dangerous men. To side with the right, 
against the wrong, with the weak against the strong, and with the oppressed 
against the oppressor! here lies the merit, and the one which, of all 
others, seems unfashionable in our day. The cause of liberty may be stabbed 
by the men who glory in the deeds of your fathers. But, to proceed.

   Feeling themselves harshly and unjustly treated by the home government, 
your fathers, like men of honesty, and men of spirit, earnestly sought 
redress. They petitioned and remonstrated; they did so in a decorous, 
respectful, and loyal manner. Their conduct was wholly unexceptionable. 
This, however, did not answer the purpose. They saw themselves treated with 
sovereign indifference, coldness and scorn. Yet they persevered. They were 
not the men to look back.

   As the sheet anchor takes a firmer hold, when the ship is tossed by the 
storm, so did the cause of your fathers grow stronger, as it breasted the 
chilling blasts of kingly displeasure. The greatest and best of British 
statesmen admitted its justice, and the loftiest eloquence of the British 
Senate came to its support. But, with that blindness which seems to be the 
unvarying characteristic of tyrants, since Pharaoh and his hosts were 
drowned in the Red Sea, the British Government persisted in the exactions 
complained of.

   The madness of this course, we believe, is admitted now, even by England; 
but we fear the lesson is wholly lost on our present rulers.

    Oppression makes a wise man mad. Your fathers were wise men, and if they 
did not go mad, they became restive under this treatment. They felt 
themselves the victims of grievous  wrongs, wholly incurable in their 
colonial capacity. With brave men there is always a remedy for oppression. 
Just here, the idea of a total separation of the colonies from the crown was 
born! It was a startling idea, much more so, than we, at this distance of 
time, regard it. The timid and the prudent (as has been intimated) of that 
day, were, of course, shocked and alarmed by it.

  Such people lived then, had lived before, and will, probably, ever have a 
place on this planet; and their course, in respect to any great change, (no 
matter how great the good to be attained, or the wrong to be redressed by 
it), may be calculated with as much precision as can be the course of the 
stars. They hate all changes, but silver, gold and copper change! Of this 
sort of change they are always strongly in favor.

   These people were called tories in the days of your fathers; and the 
appellation, probably, conveyed the same idea that is meant by a more 
modern, though a somewhat less euphonious term, which we often find in our 
papers, applied to some of our old politicians.

    Their opposition to the then dangerous thought was earnest and powerful; 
but, amid all their terror and affrighted vociferations against it, the 
alarming and revolutionary idea moved on, and the country with it.

   On the 2d of July, 1776, the old Continental Congress, to the dismay of 
the lovers of ease, and the worshipers of property, clothed that dreadful 
idea with all the authority of national sanction. They did so in the form of 
a resolution; and as we seldom hit upon resolutions, drawn up in our day, 
whose transparency is at all equal to this, it may refresh your minds and 
help my story if I read it.

"Resolved, That these united colonies are, and of right, ought to be free 
and Independent States; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the 
British Crown; and that all political connection between them and the State 
of Great Britain is, and ought to be, dissolved."

Citizens, your fathers made good that resolution. They succeeded; and to-day 
you reap the fruits of their success. The freedom gained is yours; and you, 
therefore, may properly celebrate this anniversary. The 4th of July is the 
first great fact in your nation's history - the very ring-bolt in the chain 
of your yet undeveloped destiny.

Pride and patriotism, not less than gratitude, prompt you to celebrate and 
to hold it in perpetual remembrance. I have said that the Declaration of 
Independence is the ring-bolt to the chain of your nation's destiny; so, 
indeed, I regard it. The principles contained in that instrument are saving 
principles. Stand by those principles, be true to them on all occasions, in 
all places, against all foes, and at whatever cost.

From the round top of your ship of state, dark and threatening clouds may be 
seen. Heavy billows, like mountains in the distance, disclose to the leeward 
huge forms of flinty rocks! That bolt drawn, that chain broken, and all is 
lost. Cling to this day - cling to it, and to its principles, with the grasp 
of a storm-tossed mariner to a spar at midnight.

The coming into being of a nation, in any circumstances, is an interesting 
event. But, besides general considerations, there were peculiar 
circumstances which make the advent of this republic an event of special 
attractiveness.

  The whole scene, as I look back to it, was simple, dignified and sublime.

  The population of the country, at the time, stood at the insignificant 
number of three millions. The country was poor in the munitions of war. The 
population was weak and scattered, and the country a wilderness unsubdued. 
There were then no means of concert and combination, such as exist now. 
Neither steam nor lightning had then been reduced to order and discipline. 
From the Potomac to the Delaware was a journey of many days. Under these, 
and innumerable other disadvantages, your fathers declared for liberty and 
independence and triumphed.

   Fellow Citizens, I am not wanting in respect for the fathers of this 
republic. The signers of the Declaration of Independence were brave men. 
They were great men too - great enough to give fame to a great age. It does 
not often happen to a nation to raise, at one time, such a number of truly 
great men. The point from which I am compelled to view them is not, 
certainly, the most favorable; and yet I cannot contemplate their great 
deeds with less than admiration. They were statesmen, patriots and heroes, 
and for the good they did, and the principles they contended for, I will 
unite with you to honor their memory.

   They loved their country better than their own private interests; and, 
though this is not the highest form of human excellence, all will concede 
that it is a rare virtue, and that when it is  exhibited, it ought to 
command respect. He who will, intelligently, lay down his life for his 
country, is a man whom it is not in human nature to despise. Your fathers 
staked their lives,
their fortunes, and their sacred honor, on the cause of their country. In 
their admiration of liberty, they lost sight of all other interests.

  They were peace men; but they preferred revolution to peaceful submission 
to bondage. They were quiet men; but they did not shrink from agitating 
against oppression. They showed forbearance; but that they knew its limits. 
They believed in order; but not in the order of tyranny. With them, nothing 
was "settled" that was not right. With them, justice, liberty and humanity 
were "final;" not slavery and oppression. You may well cherish the memory of 
such men. They were great in their day and generation. Their solid manhood 
stands out the more as we contrast it with these degenerate times.

   How circumspect, exact and proportionate were all their movements! How 
unlike the politicians of an hour! Their statesmanship looked beyond the 
passing moment, and stretched away in strength into the distant future. They 
seized upon eternal principles, and set a glorious example in their defence. 
Mark them!

  Fully appreciating the hardship to be encountered, firmly believing in the 
right of their cause, honorably inviting the scrutiny of an on-looking 
world, reverently appealing to heaven to attest their sincerity, soundly 
comprehending the solemn responsibility they were about to assume, wisely 
measuring the terrible odds against them, your fathers, the fathers of this 
republic, did, most deliberately, under the inspiration of a glorious 
patriotism, and with a sublime faith in the great principles of justice and 
freedom, lay deep the corner-stone of the national superstructure, which has 
risen and still rises in grandeur around you.

   Of this fundamental work, this day is the anniversary. Our eyes are met 
with demonstrations of joyous enthusiasm. Banners and pennants wave 
exultingly on the breeze. The din of business, too, is hushed. Even Mammon 
seems to have quitted his grasp on this day. The ear-piercing fife and the 
stirring drum unite their accents with the ascending peal of a thousand 
church bells. Prayers are made, hymns are sung, and sermons are preached in 
honor of this day; while the quick martial tramp of a great and 
multitudinous nation, echoed back by all the hills, valleys and mountains of 
a vast continent, bespeak the occasion one of thrilling and universal 
interests nation's jubilee.


   Friends and citizens, I need not enter further into the causes which led 
to this anniversary. Many of you understand them better than I do. You could 
instruct me in regard to them. That is a branch of knowledge in which you 
feel, perhaps, a much deeper interest than your speaker.  The causes which 
led to the separation of the colonies from the British crown have never 
lacked for a tongue. They have all been taught in your common schools, 
narrated at your firesides, unfolded from your pulpits, and thundered from 
your legislative halls, and are as familiar to you as household words. They 
form the staple of your national poetry and eloquence.

   I remember, also, that, as a people, Americans are remarkably familiar 
with all facts which make in their own favor. This is esteemed by some as a 
national trait - perhaps a national weakness. It is a fact, that whatever 
makes for the wealth or for the reputation of Americans, and can be had 
cheap! will be found by Americans. I shall not be charged with slandering
Americans, if I say I think the American side of any question may be safely 
left in American hands.

   I leave, therefore, the great deeds of your fathers to other gentlemen 
whose claim to have  been regularly descended will be less likely to be 
disputed than mine!



Death to the Klan!
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1761
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-04 23:24:53
Subject:anti-klan 4th
Message:

any reports on the rally today?

what was the deal daryle, anyone?

joe
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1762
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-05 01:02:42
Subject:Fwd: If you never read anything...
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Jim Davis" <em4jim@...>
Reply-To: em4jim@...

Subject: If you never read anything...
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 13:25:17 -0700

... else about what's happening in Israel/Palestine, read this. If you don't 
feel anything, you're probably already dead.


--

--------- Forwarded Message ---------

DATE: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 20:02:08
From: "jamal al-din talib" <j_a_m_a_l@...>
To: em4jim@...

 >From: "Nurfette !" <nurfette@...>
 >To: Khattab23@..., Asma1182@..., DiYa785x@...,
 >NYzFinEsTPaK@..., HHHaseeb2k@..., Duaagoe@...,
 >j_a_m_a_l@..., millz3@..., Pakish33@...,
 >sebeen1021@..., taufiq224@...
 >Subject: Fwd: [ISLAMirc] FW: One Jew Speaks out against what the zionist
 >are doing!!! (A m ust read)
 >Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 18:38:25 -0000
 >

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--------- End Forwarded Message ---------



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1763
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-05 01:03:22
Subject:Fwd: If you never read anything...
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Jim Davis" <em4jim@...>
Reply-To: em4jim@...

Subject: If you never read anything...
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 13:25:17 -0700

... else about what's happening in Israel/Palestine, read this. If you don't 
feel anything, you're probably already dead.
Assalamu alaikum,

I know there's a lot of updates going around about Palestine, but this 
really should be read ....



>From: "Farooqui, Shayan OTT31C" To: "'islamirc@egroups.com'" Subject: 
>[ISLAMirc] FW: One Jew Speaks out against what the zionist are doing!!! (A 
>m ust read) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 07:32:41 +0400
>
>
>
>-----Original Message----- From: Islamic News and Information Network 
>[mailto:inin@...] Sent: 04 July 2001 01:33 To: inin-net@... 
>Subject: One Jew Speaks out against what the zionist are doing!!! (A must 
>read)
>
>
>Assalamu'alaikum
>
>The local Twin Cities newspaper The Pulse has had several weeks of debate 
>through letter to the editor in response to a U of M student's report on a 
>trip to Israeli occupied Palestine. (see the article at: 
>http://www.pulsetc.com/V5I08/coverstory.html) The letter in this week's 
>Pulse by Tzaporah Ryter is a thorough and powerful short statement coming 
>from an American Jew.
>
>ININ -------------
>
>http://www.pulsetc.com/V5I13/news.html Palestine/Israel: Do you know your 
>ABCs?
>
>I just finished reading letters to the editor in response to Jennifer 
>Gulbrandson's cover story "Just Another Day Under Israeli Occupation." Like 
>some letter writers, I am so upset I do not know where to start. But I will 
>try to be calm. Rather than escalate the debate, I mean to open it. I 
>challenge and support the editor to keep this discussion ongoing, despite 
>the backlash he is receiving.
>
>I am a Jewish woman with family who lived in Haifa from 10 generations ago, 
>prior to the Zionist project. I just returned from living in Ramallah, the 
>West Bank, Occupied Palestine for eight months. I was involved there in 
>nonviolent demonstrations and acts of grassroots international intervention 
>and solidarity. In the nonviolent demonstrations in which I participated - 
>such as dismantling with our bare hands the roadblocks that prevent 
>thousands of people from accessing vocation, trade, basic services and even 
>emergency medical treatment - I cannot tell you how many people I saw shot, 
>wounded and killed. I lost count.
>
>After the first murder I witnessed of the man standing in front of me, I 
>grew numb. Then it was just a stream of bodies - the guy with his head 
>blown off, the little boys so small you don't even need a stretcher for 
>them, and old women - carried off into ambulances which every single time 
>were shot at by the Israelis directly on the driver's side of the 
>windshield. Ambulances turned back at checkpoints.
>
>Throughout this Intifada/Israeli Siege, what I witnessed was an 
>overwhelmingly nonviolent struggle within civil society for justice. Every 
>one of the endless demonstrations I attended began as marches with signs, 
>banners and chants. The Israelis shot first every single time before any 
>rocks were thrown. Rocks - thrown at armored jeeps' seldom hit fenders - 
>stones that are a symbolic way of saying, "We will resist our oppression, 
>even if you have a tank and I have a rock."
>
>In fact, the Israeli soldiers even shot at some of our demonstrations when 
>we were singing "we shall overcome" and no stones were thrown even after 
>the Israeli soldiers began and continued to shoot us! Every night I went to 
>sleep to the sound of shells falling on the nearby school for blind 
>children. I walked to do my shopping past 10-year-old boys with patches 
>over their eyes. How come all of them in the eye? Accident? That's quite a 
>sharp-shooting accident.
>
>The death toll for the Israelis is about 100, the death toll for the 
>Palestinians about 600. Numbers cannot reflect the losses. The 
>Pales-tinians also have about 20,000 wounded civilians, some in critical 
>condition and many permanently disabled while hospitals are being attacked 
>and medical clinics destroyed. I had to walk through streets of crippled 
>people, through the human traffic of funerals, which become demonstrations, 
>which become more funerals, just to get a can of soda.
>
>And that's just Area A.
>
>Area A is like a vacation. Don't know what that is? Learn your ABCs. I'll 
>be happy to help you. Then maybe we can have a conversation. In Areas B and 
>C - where the majority of people live in villages completely surrounded by 
>clusters of Israeli settlements such as Ariel, which even within Barak's 
>generous offer were set to remain permanently, in order to maintain 
>permanent military bases - life is much worse. The children cannot breathe. 
>The tear gas day and night being thrown at their windows has damaged their 
>respiratory systems, maybe irrevocably at this point. I have even tried to 
>scream at the soldiers pleading, "the children are being taken to the 
>hospital." But then they shot at me so I ran back inside the house I was 
>visiting.
>
>Night and day there are settlers attacking, backed up by soldiers, shooting 
>into the villages and screaming "Death to the Arabs," burning down 
>property, even marching into schools in broad daylight and shooting the 
>kids. The soldiers shot my friend in the middle of the day while he was 
>standing outside his house bringing the kids inside as the troops stomped 
>through the village. They threw a stun grenade into his brother's face and 
>then pointed an M-16 at his head and threatened to shoot anyone who would 
>try to bring my friend to an emergency medical vehicle. It took 30 minutes 
>before he was permitted to be taken to a hospital. Now he is paralyzed.
>
>This is only a partial list of what I have witnessed in the past eight 
>months. What is happening is called ethnic cleansing. The death toll in 
>baseball terms may be 100 to 600, but this isn't baseball. The figures do 
>not describe the conditions of life the Palestinians are living under, 
>which is a fabric torn from the seams of hell that you cannot imagine 
>without knowing it firsthand. One side goes out dancing in nightclubs when 
>it gets dark (a nightclub right next to the Russian compound where 
>Palestinian detainees are being interrogated and tortured while listening 
>to people laughing and drinking and dancing). The other side sits in fear 
>inside their homes or is under forced curfew. I have lived on both sides 
>and I am not sure the realities are in the same universe.
>
>This is an army - one of the most powerful in the world - against a 
>civilian population. This Israeli army has an intact infrastructure and 
>state and a government capable to give orders to kill - or not to kill. The 
>Palestinians do not have an intact infrastructure, state or government 
>capable of telling anyone anything in particular. I will let you in on a 
>little secret. Not even Chairman Arafat can stop suicide bombers. Only 
>justice can. And no, Mr. Baehr, of course it is not the collaborators that 
>are killing the Israelis.
>
>(Although, as far as shots at night go toward the settlements and 
>collaborators/Israelis doing it, I can tell you only one inside scoop: The 
>Israeli settlers chartered several buses and brought children to recently 
>stand on the roof of Gilo settlement to watch the shelling. The point is, 
>they had to schedule the occurrence and charter the buses, get it? And if 
>it was so dangerous to the Israelis, why were they standing on the roof at 
>the time eating treats?)
>
>People who have come to understand that violence is the only language the 
>Israelis reward are killing the Israelis. Thus far they are absolutely 
>correct. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon called the ceasefire after the suicide 
>bomber at the mall. The Israelis are rewarding violence. Otherwise, why do 
>they renew negotiations only after their own death toll is on the rise and 
>why do they shoot nonviolent protestors?
>
>Violence is less of a threat to Israel's existence in its present racist 
>and fascist form than nonviolent public demonstrations and freedom of 
>statement and the struggle for the exposure of truth, liberation and 
>democracy and the end to Zionist apartheid. Violence should not be 
>rewarded. But unfortunately it is - and it will be that way indefinitely 
>until the international community takes a stand and insists upon 
>international protection for the Palestinian people. Then, with the 
>protection of the innocent, with freedom of statement, with the complete 
>and total withdrawal from the Occupied Territories, can a discussion toward 
>justice - toward what justice even means begin.
>
>I will let you in on another secret: the occupation is violence. There can 
>be no negotiations under violence. When and if we finally reach it, it will 
>be a long discussion - even prior to any successful or worthwhile 
>negotiations - since currently even Israeli researchers are censored and 
>taken to court for daring to publish their findings concerning what really 
>did occur in the Palestinian massacres of 1947 and 1948. There is a lot to 
>talk about before signing any deals or even bringing them to the table.
>
>I hope that those who become defensive of Israel and upset can take a deep 
>breath and consider, have they ever visited or lived in the West Bank or 
>Gaza? Jennifer Gulbrandson has. I have. Rather than condemning Gulbrandson, 
>we should all thank her for bringing back the truth and taking the effort 
>to inform us and encourage us to think about it. I am sorry if this hurts 
>some of those who feel for the Jewish people and for their difficult 
>history. They are my people, too.
>
>My journey to the truth was very painful. But my people have no right to 
>kill the Palestinians, steal their land, destroy their communities and 
>culture and leave them refugees from their homeland. My people have no 
>right to disregard international law and U.N. resolutions. Our history 
>isnot the fault of the Palestinians. But the Palestinian history of recent 
>generations is the fault of my people. After nearly 6,000 years of 
>experience and survival, I think that my people can find more creative and 
>ultimately sustainable ways to survive than by becoming murderers and war 
>criminals or by choosing to be those who defend or support them.
>
>Tzaporah Ryter Minneapolis
>
>============================================================================ 
>==== ININ List Archives Found Here: http://www.egroups.com/messages/inin 
>============================================================================ 
>==== TO SUBSCRIBE: To subscribe please e-mail majordomo@... In the 
>body type: "subscribe inin-net"
>
>TO UNSUBSCRIBE: To unsubscribe please e-mail majordomo@... In the body 
>type in: "unsubscribe inin-net" 
>============================================================================ 
>==== ISLAMIC NEWS AND INFORMATION NETWORK: HTTP://WWW.ININ.NET
>
>VISIT: HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET
>
>WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE ANYWHERE IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!!!!
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1764
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-05 17:50:02
Subject:Re: [coalitionforjustice] anti-klan 4th
Message:

i understand the next coalition for justice meeting to be:

july 14 - 4:00pm imani church trenton

contact joe smith 732.586.5535 for rides/directions from new brunswick area.

shank schundler!


>From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: <coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com>, <njfo@egroups.com>, 
><nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] anti-klan 4th
>Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 01:45:32 -0400
>
>Yo Joe -- Best to catch the newspapers on Thursday. Lots of media people
>there -- TV/newspapers -- congregating around Barrett mostly, with some
>interviewing of Daryle and others in the dissenting crowd. P.O.P. held a
>news conference on 7/3 in MoTown that went very well according to our
>attendees. I'll send you Dave's review of the 7/3 thing.
>Barrett was generally drowned out thruout his attempt to talk. Lots of
>people in the crowd, 2X - 3X that of last year.
>Excellent Hispanic group from Motown was there. Get to Daryle on his view 
>of
>Barrett's self-imposed [?] attack on
>his little group of 4-5 people.
>By the way, there is an upcoming Coalition for Justice meeting scheduled 
>for
>later in July -- did you get the word on it? I'll send date etc later today
>if I can remember to get it again from L Hamm.
>Stay safe.
>H
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>To: <njfo@egroups.com>; <nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>;
><coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 11:24 PM
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] anti-klan 4th
>
>
> > any reports on the rally today?
> >
> > what was the deal daryle, anyone?
> >
> > joe
> > _________________________________________________________________X
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> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1765
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-05 18:36:55
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
Message:

boo fu*in hoo

clw,sr. is registered republican since '88
(data: middlesex cty board of elections).

do what you want w/ the gloves.
now then.

peoples' war on the right.
cliff


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
>Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 16:19:33
>
>It's times like this that the internet & e-group thang becomes dangerous.  
>I
>mean, do I take this shit seriously and strangle my monitor as the public
>debate gets dragged down once again into knee deep vitriol, insults and
>slander.  Do I take the gloves off & give this post the back of my hand?  
>Or
>do I just scratch my head and wonder what the hell this guy is thinking (&
>what this has to do with unity building, or anything remotely constructive,
>let alone principled debate from a *communist*), while trying to remember
>that he's actually my blood, even if he chooses to forget...I'm running out
>of answers, folks.
>
>(PS if I thought it would matter for a second to the 2-3 people who think
>Curtis is an imperialist (sigh), I would make the effort to bust out my 
>home
>videos of him speaking in public.)
>
>Yours,or not- Matt
>
>
>Joe wrote:
>
>don't speak too soon matt, ask keith and ask curtis himself. i can produce
>my evidence, you better have your explanation for the people as to why you
>are so tight with el senior. your good word don't amount to a hill'a beans
>papi.
>
>further- matt, curtis is a member of the republican party, how could one
>advocate anything but republican positions from such a base?
>
>your whole practice of latching on to one "spokesperson" and disregarding
>the entire community is now coming full circle. what shall we learn? what
>shall we learn?
>
>further2- where are the articles for the next U&S issue and what can i do 
>to
>facilitate putting out the issue?
>
>joe
>
>  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>  >Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:23:52
>  >
>  >I worked with Curtis for 4 years, and I know that this statement by Joe 
>is
>  >unequivically false.  -Matt
>  >
>  >
>  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>  >Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:47:38 -0400
>  >
>  >curtis has never advocated anything but a republican agenda!!! thus, he
>has
>  >now sealed the deal in an open admission that he is and has been and 
>will
>  >continue to be a member of the republican party. i have documents that
>  >prove
>  >since 1988 - so much for your arguements...
>  >bout them apples??
>  >
>  >shank schundler!
>  >win the peoples' campaign to the people, dump bright/el senior/sinister
>  >ford!!
>  >
>  >the streets are watching --
>  >get on board w/july 4 event in new brunswick
>  >burn confederate flag in front of 218 george street!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,
>  >register voters, promote greasy,
>  >feaster park rally w/food, burn confederate flag2
>  >fireworks provided by the city (burn another confederate flag3?)
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >  >From: shorepaulie@...
>  >  >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >Subject: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>  >  >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:29:05 -0000
>  >  >
>  >  >You can count me in the anti-republican crusade.  I resigned from the
>  >  >Repub committee last year and I'm changing my voter reg asap.
>  >  >
>  >  >About Joe's words:  No doubt, Joe, that the revolutionaries in the
>  >  >NBPC should have been more persistent with open revolutionary calls.
>  >  >But the NBPC itself wasn't a revolutionary org., you know that.
>  >  >
>  >  >But to say the platform wasn't revolutionary-democratic?????? Come 
>on,
>  >  >now.  The platform was straight up community control and all for
>  >  >people's institutions. If that's not rev-dem, then why not?
>  >  >
>  >  >No doubt you guys consistently called for revolution, etc., but you
>  >  >guys weren't following Mao's 'On Handling Contradictions Among the
>  >  >People' when you viciously attacked Curtis for his ambiguous
>  >  >statements.  Curtis didn't back off the platform and he's never
>  >  >stopped advocating for revolutionary democracy, even if he wouldn't
>  >  >call it 'rev-dem', and, I would argue, even while supporting Rev.
>  >  >Soaries with respect to the church (Curtis has never openly supported
>  >  >Soaries-as-Republican).
>  >  >
>  >  >And in hindsight, it was a mistake to align with Bright.  Had we 
>known
>  >  >better, we could have had independent poll workers.  And while Bright
>  >  >does sometimes advocate for the people of NB, and sometimes manages 
>to
>  >  >stink up the machine, keeping the UF together with constant threat
>  >  >from the Right is part of the reason the NBPC is relatively inactive
>  >  >right now.  If we hadn't needed to organize against Frank's right 
>wing
>  >  >attacks, we could have united and consolidated the left much more
>  >  >effectively after the election.
>  >  >
>  >  >You might want to conclude that inclusion of Frank made expulsion of
>  >  >BoL politically more possible.  That's easy to say, but it's wrong.
>  >  >
>  >  >I think BoL's expulsion had more to do with your letter (which was
>  >  >unprincipled and unprofessional political behavior) rather than
>  >  >attempts by NJFO and company to avoid revolutionary struggle.
>  >  >
>  >  >You gotta admit that letter you guys signed was against 'march
>  >  >separately, strike together', a slogan that all NBPC trends supported
>  >  >informally.  What ever happened to winning people over to your
>  >  >position through side-by-side struggle together, or by persuasive
>  >  >arguments that pick up the bucket where it's at?  That's where BoL
>  >  >makes its mistakes- not recognizing contradictions within the rev-dem
>  >  >movement as opportunities to win over your allies, but instead using
>  >  >differences (which are ususally limited in their political scope, I
>  >  >might add), as launching pads for your vitriol dressed in Amiriesque
>  >  >nicknames, and all-out attacks on your allies that forget about 
>unity.
>  >  >
>  >  >That coincides with talking without listening, struggle without 
>unity,
>  >  >and other trends that manifest themselves in meetings, in
>  >  >revolutionary literature, and especially in contentious conversations
>  >  >with individuals.  I think BoL needs to get serious about its 
>personal
>  >  >and political conduct.  You criticize bannings and expulsions but you
>  >  >push your allies up against walls and badger them until they 'agree'
>  >  >with you.
>  >  >
>  >  >This all shows that we need new conventions about unity.  Our old
>  >  >conceptions of 'unity' come from our fight clubs not out of
>  >  >appreciation for the power of revolutionary alliances and the united
>  >  >front.
>  >  >
>  >  >When you say the BoL dominated the Outreach Committee, you're right.
>  >  >The Outreach Committee was the power base of BoL.  They yelled at
>  >  >everyone who wasn't BoL and generally acted in a hostile manner
>  >  >towards people who didn't show an ironclad commitment to canvassing.
>  >  >They did survey and canvass like the Dickens, but they did their best
>  >  >to alienate everyone else.
>  >  >
>  >  >When I think about cultural revolution, I think about these things.
>  >  >
>  >  >Paul
>  >  >
>  >  >--- In njfo@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>  >  > > (re: paul)
>  >  > >
>  >  > > through seeing who is being organized to your positions and why.
>  >  > >
>  >  > > not so insignificant as you might think, uniting with republicans.
>  >  > > why don't you explain to jayson hankins and myself why you would
>  >  > > rather have fucbright on the steering committee than himself?
>  >  > >
>  >  > > i am not and never have been anti-nbpc, nor am i ultra-left.
>  >  > >
>  >  > > to claim that the nbpc represented the working class with a
>  >  >revolutionary
>  >  > > democratic program is a lie, lier. xavier and njfo members led the
>  >  >expulsion
>  >  > > of any open revolutionary democratic programs being organized in 
>the
>  >  > > peoples' campaign. let alone the bankrupt attack and guttering of
>the
>  >  > > national election. since BOL and others from nb were/ARE expelled,
>  >  >there has
>  >  > > yet to be any open revolutionary programs put forward by the nbpc.
>  >  > >
>  >  > > yes the nbpc talked to thousands of nb working class residents
>  >  >through the
>  >  > > canvass which was organized by the outreach committee which was 
>led
>  >  >by BOL.
>  >  > > the motorcade, the surveys, the picnic were all organized through
>the
>  >  > > outreach committee which was dominated by BOL. where is the 
>outreach
>  >  > > committee now?, where is any public display of the nbpc?
>  >  > >
>  >  > > you never explained to the people that you were/ARE all registered
>  >  > > REPUBLICANS!
>  >  > >
>  >  > > as far as what % of the working class vote nbpc received, the 
>losing
>  >%.
>  >  > >
>  >  > > Beat Bush!! Nix Nader!! sound familiar Flavier?
>  >  > >
>  >  > > if there is a working class base organized promoting revolutionary
>  >  > > democratic programs in nb, where is it? and how can SWORD get
>  >involved?
>  >  > >
>  >  > > why do we as revolutionaries build allainces? not to drop our OPEN
>  >  > > AND ABOVE BOARD revolutionary positions, but to further them.
>  >currently
>  >  > > there are more nb people agreeing with republican positions on
>public
>  >  > > housing than are agreeing with revolutionary democratic positions 
>on
>  >  >public
>  >  > > housing. or is there not a difference??????????????????????
>  >  > >
>  >  > > nbpc recieved 1900+ votes for republican candidates for city
>  >  >council. how
>  >  > > many votes did nbpc receive for revolutionary democracy?
>  >  > >
>  >  > >                    000000
>  >  > >                   0      0
>  >  > >                  0        0
>  >  > >                 0          0
>  >  > >                 0          0
>  >  > >                 0          0
>  >  > >                  0        0
>  >  > >                   0      0
>  >  > >                    000000
>  >  > >
>  >  > > you can't play me
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > >
>  >  > > >From: shorepaulie@h...
>  >  > > >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  >  > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  >  > > >>Subject: [nbpc] working class base?
>  >  > > >>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:58:06 -0000
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>Matt wrote:  But the point is that we need
>  >  > > >> > to sort out ... why the campaign lacked a working class base.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>Paul writes:  Yea, I think that's the bottom line issue here.
>  >Matthew
>  >  > > >>and others have contended that we didn't reach the working class
>  >with
>  >  > > >>the NBPC.  I can't think of many things farther from the truth.
>  >I've
>  >  > > >>personally tried to convey this so many times....that we spoke
>with
>  >  > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with community
>  >  > > >>control, down with the platform, down with democracy.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>As some may guess, many of these working class people whom I
>  >  > > >>personally met can talk the issues much better than some local
>  >  > > >>'organizers' and many of the 'advanced' who need to learn to
>  >listen.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>You say we didn't have a working class base, but the platform 
>was
>  >  > > >>derived from conversation with mainly working class people.  The
>  >  > > >>tactics on canvass were derived mainly from conversations, that
>is,
>  >  > > >>informal agitation and propaganda among the broad mass of 
>working
>  >  > > >>class people in NB.  We reinforced our emphases based on 
>continued
>  >  > > >>interaction.  We had working class people out in the field, in 
>our
>  >  > > >>meetings, working on election day, spreading the buzz of the 
>NBPC,
>  >  >etc.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>But you may still say we lacked working class base.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>As a communist, I'll say that our most important job is to
>  >represent
>  >  > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible.  I think
>my
>  >  > > >>arguments, which are well-honed now that I've repeated them so
>many
>  >  > > >>times, stand for themselves.  You can say my premises are wrong
>and
>  >my
>  >  > > >>experience non-scientific, but that's how I and others stand on
>the
>  >  > > >>campaign experience.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>As far as getting out the working class vote goes,  we don't yet
>  >know
>  >  > > >>what percentage of our vote was working class.  I think that
>  >deserves
>  >  > > >>much attention:  at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the other
>  >night,
>  >  > > >>the NBPC was roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in
>which
>  >  > > >>revolutionaries sold out their principles to form partnerships
>with
>  >  > > >>pro-Bush forces.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>That conclusion, embraced mainly by the far Left among us, 
>ignores
>  >the
>  >  > > >>political experience of the campaign as it relates to the
>political
>  >  > > >>experience of the working class voters of NB.  To dismiss the
>  >campaign
>  >  > > >>on the grounds of two strategic alliances which barely affected
>  >  > > >>tactics is to ignore the largest question of progressive and
>  >  > > >>revolutionary politics....that is:   how do we mobilize the
>working
>  >  > > >>class and in doing that, what tasks are principal for
>  >pro-democratic
>  >  > > >>forces who would mobilize the political disfranchised classes. 
>Any
>  >  > > >>analysis of these questions has to take practice into account. 
>But
>  >  > > >>this type of practice was not on the agenda on Wednesday in
>Newark.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it
>certainly
>  >  > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who 
>contend
>  >that
>  >  > > >>the campaign didn't have a working class base, that the campaign
>  >was
>  >  > > >>not revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without
>detailed
>  >  > > >>investigation.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>I don't think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened to 
>to
>  >  > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That's not only unprinicipled, but 
>opportunist
>  >  > > >>because they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
>  >  > > >>revolutionary practice of the campaign.  This dissing of
>  >revolutionary
>  >  > > >>practice is predicated on the less-significant alliances formed
>  >with
>  >  > > >>Greens and Republicans.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>It's precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current 
>trends
>  >in
>  >  > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem credible
>in
>  >  > > >>this ongoing debate.
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>I'm going to end with a question, because now I'm listening---
>  >  > > >>Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our practice?
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>
>  >  > > >>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
>  >wrote:
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > Totally agreed that the movement needs "technicians and
>  >progressive
>  >  > > >> > professionsals...(look, i'm a college student studying to be 
>an
>  >  > > >>architect
>  >  > > >> > which is about as technical  as you can get)  But the point 
>is
>  >that
>  >  > > >>we need
>  >  > > >> > to sort out the question of what the United Front is, and why
>  >the
>  >  > > >>campaign
>  >  > > >> > lacked a working class base.
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > Here's an anecdote: I was just working with this third-wrold
>  >  >grassroots
>  >  > > >> > coalition on building a full scale model house in the United
>  >  >Nations
>  >  > > >>for a
>  >  > > >> > convention on low-income housing.  After a week of working
>  >  >together,
>  >  > > >>I asked
>  >  > > >> > their leader, Jokin, an old Indian man, how I could join the
>  >  > > >>organization.
>  >  > > >> > He looked at me puzzled, and asked me, WHy do you ask how you
>  >can
>  >  > > >>join what
>  >  > > >> > you've already joined?!  That's the difference in the mode of
>  >  > > >>organizing,
>  >  > > >> > and it's a consciousness that comes *from* the grassroots,
>  >  >*not* the
>  >  > > >> > technical progressives.  & When I say that there is a 
>dominant
>  >  > > >>tendancy, or
>  >  > > >> > ideology, that represents the "progressive professional" it
>  >doesn't
>  >  > > >>mean
>  >  > > >> > that you, Flavio, not needed (BTW I haven't had my court date
>  >  > > >>rescheduled
>  >  > > >> > yet ;)  ...it means that something else is lacking, and has
>  >  > > >>historically
>  >  > > >> > been so. And that is the working class.  & It is only with
>  >working
>  >  > > >>class
>  >  > > >> > consciousness that **revolutionary democracy** will not be
>  >  >compromised,
>  >  > > >> > because the W.C. doesn't have the option of "getting jobs" 
>like
>  >so
>  >  > > >>many of
>  >  > > >> > our parents generation did......So it is *of necessity* that
>the
>  >  > > >>W.C. will
>  >  > > >> > ultimately inspire all of us progressive and revolutionary
>  >  > > >>technicians to
>  >  > > >> > get it together and participate in the construction of an
>  >  >actual United
>  >  > > >> > Front against this mess. and for democracy, by any means
>  >necessary.
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > -Matt
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > ----Original Message Follows----
>  >  > > >> > From: Groovemeister007@y...
>  >  > > >> > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  >  > > >> > To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  >  > > >> > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep the
>  >Essence
>  >  > > >> > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:56:10 -0000
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > It is my understanding that even Mao advocated that political
>  >  >leaders
>  >  > > >> > had to be both "red and expert," i.e. to understand both
>  >  >politics as
>  >  > > >> > well as more technical matters such as industry (or even 
>law).
>  >  > > >> > Not "red and ignorant" or "red and alienating."  As he
>  >explained,
>  >a
>  >  > > >> > person with only a political line is "pseudo-red,
>empty-headedly
>  >  > > >> > political."
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > The campaign needs technicians in its ranks.  I also believe
>  >  >that to
>  >  > > >> > be "advanced" one must have more than a class consciousness.
>  >While
>  >  > > >> > petition signatures were being collected for the 2000 board 
>of
>  >  >ed and
>  >  > > >> > municipal elections, some turkeys decided it would be
>  >  >permissible to
>  >  > > >> > get signatures from people living in _North_ Brunswick (which
>  >are
>  >  > > >> > invalid in a _New_ Brunswick election).  Just recently, some
>  >other
>  >  > > >> > turkeys on the other egroup advocated letters to USA Cleary
>  >asking
>  >  > > >> > him to "overturn" a judge's ruling nullifying a jury verdict
>  >(Can't
>  >  > > >> > happen because of separation of powers).  One point of the 
>NBPC
>  >  > > >> > platform demands: "Pass rent control legislation to stop all
>  >rent
>  >  > > >> > increases except those necessary to preserve a fair rate of
>  >return
>  >  > > >> > for landlords' investments, such as to cover repairs and
>  >  >improvements
>  >  > > >> > to building by the owner, requiring the approval of a
>  >  >democratically-
>  >  > > >> > elected Rent Control Board and never to exceed cost of living
>  >  > > >> > increase for that year."  This is despite the fact that NB 
>has
>  >just
>  >  > > >> > such a rent control ordinance, albeit one that is
>  >  > > >> > underenforced/unenforced and without vacancy control.
>  >  >Shouldn't the
>  >  > > >> > nonenforcement/vacancy control have been the emphasis of the
>  >rent
>  >  > > >> > point, rather than demanding something already on the books?
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > I could go on but in sum, my question is: who is doing the
>  >  >technical
>  >  > > >> > homework on our political work and outreach?
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > Credibility matters, whether we like it or not.  Part of
>  >  >credibility
>  >  > > >> > is technical accuracy.  (Proper grammar, spelling, and use of
>  >  >English
>  >  > > >> > capitalization rules also help, a point sorely lost on many 
>of
>  >the
>  >  > > >> > purportedly "advanced" people who are using the other 
>egroup).
>  >  > > >> > Technical accuracy and the precision of a message can be
>  >  >enhanced by
>  >  > > >> > welcoming progressives into the campaign who share the
>  >campaign's
>  >  > > >> > goals and who have the relevant technical and professional
>  >  > > >> > knowledge.  Indeed, if we are going to participate in 
>electoral
>  >  > > >> > politics, I'd rather have the progressive technician who
>  >  >understands
>  >  > > >> > how to get our candidates' names on the ballot participating
>in,
>  >  > > >> > even "dominating" things, rather than the sloganeer whose can
>  >mouth
>  >  > > >> > a "purer" political consciousness than that of the 
>progressive
>  >  > > >> > technician/professional.
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> 
>wrote:
>  >  > > >> >  > Kris-
>  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  > > >> >  > *My choice of phrasing "landlords & lawyer types", though
>not
>  >  > > >> > intended to be
>  >  > > >> >  > a put down, could be read as such.  I'll rephrase it more
>  >  > > >> > accurately & point
>  >  > > >> >  > out that the 'political line' of nbpcmembers is/has been
>  >  >dominated
>  >  > > >> > by the
>  >  > > >> >  > class consciousness of the 'progressive professional'.
>  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  > > >> >  > *From my observations, SWORD has been closer to the 
>working
>  >  >class
>  >  > > >> > community
>  >  > > >> >  > on the street, irregardless of the criticisms that have 
>been
>  >  >made
>  >  > > >> > against
>  >  > > >> >  > them.  At one time, the NBPB Coalition held that honor.  
>but
>  >  >NJFO
>  >  > > >> > has been
>  >  > > >> >  > historically campus/student oriented and while the NBPC 
>had
>  >made
>  >  > > >> > inroads
>  >  > > >> >  > into the community, it's base is still vastly made up of
>  >  >students &
>  >  > > >> >  > graduates.
>  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  > > >> >  > *I'm unclear as to why you immmediately conclude that
>  >advocating
>  >  > > >> >  > 'revolutionary democracy' equates to "vicious, slanderous,
>  >  > > >> >  > negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering?"  I've
>  >consistantly
>  >  > > >> > criticized
>  >  > > >> >  > what I view to be 'ultra-leftist' tendencies and
>  >'murder-mouth'
>  >  > > >> >  > sloganeering, but I refuse to give up my ideas and my
>  >  >experiences
>  >  > > >> > because
>  >  > > >> >  > I'm afraid I might be confused with someone else...I agree
>  >  >that it
>  >  > > >> > is time
>  >  > > >> >  > to move on and find a new basis for unity and not to keep
>  >  >beating
>  >  > > >> > the same
>  >  > > >> >  > old horse, but let the records note that I strongly feel
>that
>  >  > > >> > NJFO 'gave up'
>  >  > > >> >  > it's 'revolutionary democratic' *ideological conclusion*
>  >  >based on
>  >  > > >> > the hard
>  >  > > >> >  > fought and won experience of breaking out of the CU
>  >shell...in
>  >  > > >> > other words,
>  >  > > >> >  > the butterfly never left the branch.
>  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  > > >> >  > This is why I now feel that the most pressing issue 
>*still*
>  >  >is the
>  >  > > >> > nature of
>  >  > > >> >  > revolutionary democracy* and how that is represented in a
>  >United
>  >  > > >> > Front. (I
>  >  > > >> >  > think we agree that we disagree on this, but precisely 
>what
>  >  >are the
>  >  > > >> > points
>  >  > > >> >  > of contention. What do we agree on, and what do we 
>disagree
>  >  >on in
>  >  > > >> > substance
>  >  > > >> >  > not form.  If I curse and you don't like that, it doesn't
>  >  >get any
>  >  > > >> > closer to
>  >  > > >> >  > the heart of the matter.  But if I scream at you or 
>slander
>  >you
>  >  > > >> > because
>  >  > > >> >  > you're not revolutionary enough, then it does get to the
>  >heart
>  >  > > >> > because it
>  >  > > >> >  > shows that I'm not that interested in building unity with
>  >you.
>  >I
>  >  > > >> > think we
>  >  > > >> >  > can agree on this much. Now how does this play out...)
>  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  > > >> >  > * Two more things, and then I'll hang up and listen:
>  >  > > >> >  > 1. Please don't put words in my mouth and then compare 
>them
>  >to
>  >  > > >> > those of
>  >  > > >> >  > "right-wing turds".
>  >  > > >> >  > 2. I also wish that I had thought of the idea to limit the 
>#
>  >of
>  >  > > >> > postings to
>  >  > > >> >  > one-a-day 'back then'...for one thing, I was too 
>preoccupied
>  >  >with
>  >  > > >> > my
>  >  > > >> >  > revelation that the peoples campaign was not acting as a
>  >United
>  >  > > >> > Front; that
>  >  > > >> >  > NJFO's president had a split with AB and was putting out a
>  >  >position
>  >  > > >> > against
>  >  > > >> >  > publishing U&S (no longer "March Seperately, Strike
>  >  >Together") to
>  >  > > >> > appease
>  >  > > >> >  > the Naderites, Republicans & Landlords; that folks were
>  >  >generally
>  >  > > >> > abandoning
>  >  > > >> >  > U&S as a collective organizer; and the big revalation that
>  >this
>  >  > > >> > tendency of
>  >  > > >> >  > bannings is just that: a tendency with a long history of
>  >  >trial and
>  >  > > >> > error
>  >  > > >> >  > with little to show for itself in terms of creating a 
>'pure'
>  >  >space
>  >  > > >> > for some
>  >  > > >> >  > kind of 'real' unity.
>  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  > > >> >  > Look , Kris, we all have a relatively long history 
>together.
>  >  >  It's
>  >  > > >> > hard to
>  >  > > >> >  > have things shaken up as much as they have been.  But alot
>  >  >will be
>  >  > > >> >  > determined by how we approach our potential for the 
>future,
>  >  > > >> > beginning on
>  >  > > >> >  > Wed. I'm glad to be a part of the bridge building.  See 
>you
>  >  >then.
>  >  > > >> > Matt
>  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  >  > > >> > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  >  > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >  > > >> >
>  >_________________________________________________________________
>  >  > > >> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
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>  >  > >
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>  >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1766
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-05 19:36:04
Subject:donde es u&s, expellers?
Message:

talk is cheap, haters. where you at?

cliff







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1767
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-06 14:04:50
Subject:U&S production- lack there of...
Message:

amiri, your peoples are now openly sabotaging the production of U&S.
matthew has already stated that he cannot handle the layout and now he is 
blocking myself from such tasks being accomplished. follow the message from 
matt below where he explicitly states for me to fuck myself and that he will 
do everything to stop my work with U&S. we should ask matt how many papers 
he has handed out compared to myself of the last two issues produced. also i 
am responsible for those issues because of the meeting i had arranged with 
yourself about where's the paper and what can i do. i don't think keith or 
louise or manny or letty have handed out more than a dozen papers of both 
issues.

if you can just forward me any articles you have that you need distributed 
(hopefully an analysis of the governor's race) i can layout a leaflet and 
distribute it.

the new brunswick peoples' campaign  last meeting had 5 out of 14 people 
republican voting that the campaign endorse schundler. i don't understand 
why your edit board, keith and matt, could be responsible for such an 
organization. you are responsible for their political shortcomings and the 
fact that all of last year your edit board spent more time organizing for 
bush2 than they did for U&S. keith received 1900+ as a REGISTERED REPUBLICAN 
for city council!!! where was your paper for the last year? where is your 
paper now?

these people are bobble head dolls when they are in the same room as you, 
but imediately they join with bush2 and the greens while expelling myself, 
cliff, and other open revolutionaries from the peoples campaign.

i want answers about U&S and where the next issue is? and what can i do to 
accelerate the production?

revolutionaries unite!
shank schundler!

joe

From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 22:47:14

1. you are lying about Curtis' track record.
2. "your whole practice of latching on to one "spokesperson" and
disregarding >the entire community is now coming full circle." is what I 
would call a slanderous, allbeit confused,  statement about me.
3. Your acting like an asshole & I'm getting sick of this shit.  You don't 
express a goddamed ounce of interest in truly finding unity, just shoving 
your self-righteous dogmatism down peoples throats.  So, as far a I'm 
concerned, you can fuck off about U&S till you "wake up", cause you 
obviously haven't sorted out the role of the newspaper as a collective 
organizer, as I hear your last stellar performance at Kimako's would attest.

Maybe you want to call AB for another meeting on my behalf.




----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 18:19:05 -0400

REPUBLICAN is what curtis is (sigh).

i have the articles and quotes from skunk soaries speaking in public back 
when potts got got and skunk was quoting malcolm, now he's black imperialist 
#1 for NJ.

my attempts to build unity have nothing to do with republicans, how bout 
yours?

matt, you go from calling my statements lies to accusing me of slandering 
people - rather why don't you just keep quite and let the truth be 
comprehended for what it is. nobody wants your answers, what we need from 
you is to organize to bury the republicans. where are the articles for U&S 
with all your time to defend republicans? why isn't the newspaper your 
highest priority?

joe

  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
  >Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 16:19:33
  >
It's times like this that the internet & e-group thang becomes dangerous. I 
mean, do I take this shit seriously and strangle my monitor as the public 
debate gets dragged down once again into knee deep vitriol, insults and 
slander.  Do I take the gloves off & give this post the back of my hand?
Or do I just scratch my head and wonder what the hell this guy is thinking 
(& what this has to do with unity building, or anything remotely 
constructive, let alone principled debate from a *communist*), while trying 
to remember that he's actually my blood, even if he chooses to forget...I'm 
running out of answers, folks.

(PS if I thought it would matter for a second to the 2-3 people who think 
Curtis is an imperialist (sigh), I would make the effort to bust out my home 
videos of him speaking in public.)

Yours,or not- Matt


Joe wrote:

don't speak too soon matt, ask keith and ask curtis himself. i can produce 
my evidence, you better have your explanation for the people as to why you 
are so tight with el senior. your good word don't amount to a hill'a beans 
papi.

further- matt, curtis is a member of the republican party, how could one 
advocate anything but republican positions from such a base?

your whole practice of latching on to one "spokesperson" and disregarding 
the entire community is now coming full circle. what shall we learn? what 
shall we learn?

further2- where are the articles for the next U&S issue and what can i do to 
facilitate putting out the issue?

joe

From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:23:52

I worked with Curtis for 4 years, and I know that this statement by Joe
is unequivically false.  -Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:47:38 -0400
>
curtis has never advocated anything but a republican agenda!!! thus, he
has now sealed the deal in an open admission that he is and has been and 
will continue to be a member of the republican party. i have documents that 
prove since 1988 - so much for your arguements...
bout them apples??

shank schundler!
win the peoples' campaign to the people, dump bright/el senior/sinister
ford!!

the streets are watching --
get on board w/july 4 event in new brunswick
burn confederate flag in front of 218 george street!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,
register voters, promote greasy,
feaster park rally w/food, burn confederate flag2
fireworks provided by the city (burn another confederate flag3?)
>  >  >

>  >  >From: shorepaulie@...
>  >  >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
   >  >Subject: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>  >  >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:29:05 -0000
> >  >  >
>You can count me in the anti-republican crusade.  I resigned from
>the
>  >  >  >Repub committee last year and I'm changing my voter reg asap.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >About Joe's words:  No doubt, Joe, that the revolutionaries in the
>  >  >  >NBPC should have been more persistent with open revolutionary 
>calls.
>  >  >  >But the NBPC itself wasn't a revolutionary org., you know that.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >But to say the platform wasn't revolutionary-democratic?????? Come
>  >on,
>  >  >  >now.  The platform was straight up community control and all for
>  >  >  >people's institutions. If that's not rev-dem, then why not?
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >No doubt you guys consistently called for revolution, etc., but 
>you
>  >  >  >guys weren't following Mao's 'On Handling Contradictions Among the
>  >  >  >People' when you viciously attacked Curtis for his ambiguous
>  >  >  >statements.  Curtis didn't back off the platform and he's never
>  >  >  >stopped advocating for revolutionary democracy, even if he 
>wouldn't
>  >  >  >call it 'rev-dem', and, I would argue, even while supporting Rev.
>  >  >  >Soaries with respect to the church (Curtis has never openly
>supported
>  >  >  >Soaries-as-Republican).
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >And in hindsight, it was a mistake to align with Bright.  Had we
>  >known
>  >  >  >better, we could have had independent poll workers.  And while
>Bright
>  >  >  >does sometimes advocate for the people of NB, and sometimes 
>manages
>  >to
>  >  >  >stink up the machine, keeping the UF together with constant threat
>  >  >  >from the Right is part of the reason the NBPC is relatively 
>inactive
>  >  >  >right now.  If we hadn't needed to organize against Frank's right
>  >wing
>  >  >  >attacks, we could have united and consolidated the left much more
>  >  >  >effectively after the election.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >You might want to conclude that inclusion of Frank made expulsion 
>of
>  >  >  >BoL politically more possible.  That's easy to say, but it's 
>wrong.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >I think BoL's expulsion had more to do with your letter (which was
>  >  >  >unprincipled and unprofessional political behavior) rather than
>  >  >  >attempts by NJFO and company to avoid revolutionary struggle.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >You gotta admit that letter you guys signed was against 'march
>  >  >  >separately, strike together', a slogan that all NBPC trends
>supported
>  >  >  >informally.  What ever happened to winning people over to your
>  >  >  >position through side-by-side struggle together, or by persuasive
>  >  >  >arguments that pick up the bucket where it's at?  That's where BoL
>  >  >  >makes its mistakes- not recognizing contradictions within the
>rev-dem
>  >  >  >movement as opportunities to win over your allies, but instead 
>using
>  >  >  >differences (which are ususally limited in their political scope, 
>I
>  >  >  >might add), as launching pads for your vitriol dressed in 
>Amiriesque
>  >  >  >nicknames, and all-out attacks on your allies that forget about
>  >unity.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >That coincides with talking without listening, struggle without
>  >unity,
>  >  >  >and other trends that manifest themselves in meetings, in
>  >  >  >revolutionary literature, and especially in contentious
>conversations
>  >  >  >with individuals.  I think BoL needs to get serious about its
>  >personal
>  >  >  >and political conduct.  You criticize bannings and expulsions but
>you
>  >  >  >push your allies up against walls and badger them until they 
>'agree'
>  >  >  >with you.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >This all shows that we need new conventions about unity.  Our old
>  >  >  >conceptions of 'unity' come from our fight clubs not out of
>  >  >  >appreciation for the power of revolutionary alliances and the 
>united
>  >  >  >front.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >When you say the BoL dominated the Outreach Committee, you're 
>right.
>  >  >  >The Outreach Committee was the power base of BoL.  They yelled at
>  >  >  >everyone who wasn't BoL and generally acted in a hostile manner
>  >  >  >towards people who didn't show an ironclad commitment to 
>canvassing.
>  >  >  >They did survey and canvass like the Dickens, but they did their
>best
>  >  >  >to alienate everyone else.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >When I think about cultural revolution, I think about these 
>things.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >Paul
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >--- In njfo@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>  >  >  > > (re: paul)
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > through seeing who is being organized to your positions and 
>why.
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > not so insignificant as you might think, uniting with
>republicans.
>  >  >  > > why don't you explain to jayson hankins and myself why you 
>would
>  >  >  > > rather have fucbright on the steering committee than himself?
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > i am not and never have been anti-nbpc, nor am i ultra-left.
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > to claim that the nbpc represented the working class with a
>  >  >  >revolutionary
>  >  >  > > democratic program is a lie, lier. xavier and njfo members led
>the
>  >  >  >expulsion
>  >  >  > > of any open revolutionary democratic programs being organized 
>in
>  >the
>  >  >  > > peoples' campaign. let alone the bankrupt attack and guttering 
>of
>  >the
>  >  >  > > national election. since BOL and others from nb were/ARE
>expelled,
>  >  >  >there has
>  >  >  > > yet to be any open revolutionary programs put forward by the
>nbpc.
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > yes the nbpc talked to thousands of nb working class residents
>  >  >  >through the
>  >  >  > > canvass which was organized by the outreach committee which was
>  >led
>  >  >  >by BOL.
>  >  >  > > the motorcade, the surveys, the picnic were all organized 
>through
>  >the
>  >  >  > > outreach committee which was dominated by BOL. where is the
>  >outreach
>  >  >  > > committee now?, where is any public display of the nbpc?
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > you never explained to the people that you were/ARE all
>registered
>  >  >  > > REPUBLICANS!
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > as far as what % of the working class vote nbpc received, the
>  >losing
>  >  >%.
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > Beat Bush!! Nix Nader!! sound familiar Flavier?
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > if there is a working class base organized promoting
>revolutionary
>  >  >  > > democratic programs in nb, where is it? and how can SWORD get
>  >  >involved?
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > why do we as revolutionaries build allainces? not to drop our
>OPEN
>  >  >  > > AND ABOVE BOARD revolutionary positions, but to further them.
>  >  >currently
>  >  >  > > there are more nb people agreeing with republican positions on
>  >public
>  >  >  > > housing than are agreeing with revolutionary democratic 
>positions
>  >on
>  >  >  >public
>  >  >  > > housing. or is there not a difference??????????????????????
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > nbpc recieved 1900+ votes for republican candidates for city
>  >  >  >council. how
>  >  >  > > many votes did nbpc receive for revolutionary democracy?
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > >                    000000
>  >  >  > >                   0      0
>  >  >  > >                  0        0
>  >  >  > >                 0          0
>  >  >  > >                 0          0
>  >  >  > >                 0          0
>  >  >  > >                  0        0
>  >  >  > >                   0      0
>  >  >  > >                    000000
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > you can't play me
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > >From: shorepaulie@h...
>  >  >  > > >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  >  >  > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  >  >  > > >>Subject: [nbpc] working class base?
>  >  >  > > >>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:58:06 -0000
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>Matt wrote:  But the point is that we need
>  >  >  > > >> > to sort out ... why the campaign lacked a working class
>base.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>Paul writes:  Yea, I think that's the bottom line issue here.
>  >  >Matthew
>  >  >  > > >>and others have contended that we didn't reach the working
>class
>  >  >with
>  >  >  > > >>the NBPC.  I can't think of many things farther from the 
>truth.
>  >  >I've
>  >  >  > > >>personally tried to convey this so many times....that we 
>spoke
>  >with
>  >  >  > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with 
>community
>  >  >  > > >>control, down with the platform, down with democracy.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>As some may guess, many of these working class people whom I
>  >  >  > > >>personally met can talk the issues much better than some 
>local
>  >  >  > > >>'organizers' and many of the 'advanced' who need to learn to
>  >  >listen.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>You say we didn't have a working class base, but the platform
>  >was
>  >  >  > > >>derived from conversation with mainly working class people.
>The
>  >  >  > > >>tactics on canvass were derived mainly from conversations, 
>that
>  >is,
>  >  >  > > >>informal agitation and propaganda among the broad mass of
>  >working
>  >  >  > > >>class people in NB.  We reinforced our emphases based on
>  >continued
>  >  >  > > >>interaction.  We had working class people out in the field, 
>in
>  >our
>  >  >  > > >>meetings, working on election day, spreading the buzz of the
>  >NBPC,
>  >  >  >etc.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>But you may still say we lacked working class base.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>As a communist, I'll say that our most important job is to
>  >  >represent
>  >  >  > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible.  I
>think
>  >my
>  >  >  > > >>arguments, which are well-honed now that I've repeated them 
>so
>  >many
>  >  >  > > >>times, stand for themselves.  You can say my premises are 
>wrong
>  >and
>  >  >my
>  >  >  > > >>experience non-scientific, but that's how I and others stand 
>on
>  >the
>  >  >  > > >>campaign experience.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>As far as getting out the working class vote goes,  we don't
>yet
>  >  >know
>  >  >  > > >>what percentage of our vote was working class.  I think that
>  >  >deserves
>  >  >  > > >>much attention:  at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the 
>other
>  >  >night,
>  >  >  > > >>the NBPC was roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in
>  >which
>  >  >  > > >>revolutionaries sold out their principles to form 
>partnerships
>  >with
>  >  >  > > >>pro-Bush forces.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>That conclusion, embraced mainly by the far Left among us,
>  >ignores
>  >  >the
>  >  >  > > >>political experience of the campaign as it relates to the
>  >political
>  >  >  > > >>experience of the working class voters of NB.  To dismiss the
>  >  >campaign
>  >  >  > > >>on the grounds of two strategic alliances which barely 
>affected
>  >  >  > > >>tactics is to ignore the largest question of progressive and
>  >  >  > > >>revolutionary politics....that is:   how do we mobilize the
>  >working
>  >  >  > > >>class and in doing that, what tasks are principal for
>  >  >pro-democratic
>  >  >  > > >>forces who would mobilize the political disfranchised 
>classes.
>  >Any
>  >  >  > > >>analysis of these questions has to take practice into 
>account.
>  >But
>  >  >  > > >>this type of practice was not on the agenda on Wednesday in
>  >Newark.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it
>  >certainly
>  >  >  > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who
>  >contend
>  >  >that
>  >  >  > > >>the campaign didn't have a working class base, that the
>campaign
>  >  >was
>  >  >  > > >>not revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without
>  >detailed
>  >  >  > > >>investigation.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>I don't think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened 
>to
>  >to
>  >  >  > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That's not only unprinicipled, but
>  >opportunist
>  >  >  > > >>because they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
>  >  >  > > >>revolutionary practice of the campaign.  This dissing of
>  >  >revolutionary
>  >  >  > > >>practice is predicated on the less-significant alliances 
>formed
>  >  >with
>  >  >  > > >>Greens and Republicans.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>It's precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current
>  >trends
>  >  >in
>  >  >  > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem
>credible
>  >in
>  >  >  > > >>this ongoing debate.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>I'm going to end with a question, because now I'm 
>listening---
>  >  >  > > >>Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our
>practice?
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" 
><vivaohio@h...>
>  >  >wrote:
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > Totally agreed that the movement needs "technicians and
>  >  >progressive
>  >  >  > > >> > professionsals...(look, i'm a college student studying to 
>be
>  >an
>  >  >  > > >>architect
>  >  >  > > >> > which is about as technical  as you can get)  But the 
>point
>  >is
>  >  >that
>  >  >  > > >>we need
>  >  >  > > >> > to sort out the question of what the United Front is, and
>why
>  >  >the
>  >  >  > > >>campaign
>  >  >  > > >> > lacked a working class base.
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > Here's an anecdote: I was just working with this 
>third-wrold
>  >  >  >grassroots
>  >  >  > > >> > coalition on building a full scale model house in the 
>United
>  >  >  >Nations
>  >  >  > > >>for a
>  >  >  > > >> > convention on low-income housing.  After a week of working
>  >  >  >together,
>  >  >  > > >>I asked
>  >  >  > > >> > their leader, Jokin, an old Indian man, how I could join 
>the
>  >  >  > > >>organization.
>  >  >  > > >> > He looked at me puzzled, and asked me, WHy do you ask how
>you
>  >  >can
>  >  >  > > >>join what
>  >  >  > > >> > you've already joined?!  That's the difference in the mode
>of
>  >  >  > > >>organizing,
>  >  >  > > >> > and it's a consciousness that comes *from* the grassroots,
>  >  >  >*not* the
>  >  >  > > >> > technical progressives.  & When I say that there is a
>  >dominant
>  >  >  > > >>tendancy, or
>  >  >  > > >> > ideology, that represents the "progressive professional" 
>it
>  >  >doesn't
>  >  >  > > >>mean
>  >  >  > > >> > that you, Flavio, not needed (BTW I haven't had my court
>date
>  >  >  > > >>rescheduled
>  >  >  > > >> > yet ;)  ...it means that something else is lacking, and 
>has
>  >  >  > > >>historically
>  >  >  > > >> > been so. And that is the working class.  & It is only with
>  >  >working
>  >  >  > > >>class
>  >  >  > > >> > consciousness that **revolutionary democracy** will not be
>  >  >  >compromised,
>  >  >  > > >> > because the W.C. doesn't have the option of "getting jobs"
>  >like
>  >  >so
>  >  >  > > >>many of
>  >  >  > > >> > our parents generation did......So it is *of necessity* 
>that
>  >the
>  >  >  > > >>W.C. will
>  >  >  > > >> > ultimately inspire all of us progressive and revolutionary
>  >  >  > > >>technicians to
>  >  >  > > >> > get it together and participate in the construction of an
>  >  >  >actual United
>  >  >  > > >> > Front against this mess. and for democracy, by any means
>  >  >necessary.
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > -Matt
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > ----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >  > > >> > From: Groovemeister007@y...
>  >  >  > > >> > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  >  >  > > >> > To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  >  >  > > >> > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep 
>the
>  >  >Essence
>  >  >  > > >> > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:56:10 -0000
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > It is my understanding that even Mao advocated that
>political
>  >  >  >leaders
>  >  >  > > >> > had to be both "red and expert," i.e. to understand both
>  >  >  >politics as
>  >  >  > > >> > well as more technical matters such as industry (or even
>  >law).
>  >  >  > > >> > Not "red and ignorant" or "red and alienating."  As he
>  >  >explained,
>  >  >a
>  >  >  > > >> > person with only a political line is "pseudo-red,
>  >empty-headedly
>  >  >  > > >> > political."
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > The campaign needs technicians in its ranks.  I also 
>believe
>  >  >  >that to
>  >  >  > > >> > be "advanced" one must have more than a class 
>consciousness.
>  >  >While
>  >  >  > > >> > petition signatures were being collected for the 2000 
>board
>  >of
>  >  >  >ed and
>  >  >  > > >> > municipal elections, some turkeys decided it would be
>  >  >  >permissible to
>  >  >  > > >> > get signatures from people living in _North_ Brunswick
>(which
>  >  >are
>  >  >  > > >> > invalid in a _New_ Brunswick election).  Just recently, 
>some
>  >  >other
>  >  >  > > >> > turkeys on the other egroup advocated letters to USA 
>Cleary
>  >  >asking
>  >  >  > > >> > him to "overturn" a judge's ruling nullifying a jury 
>verdict
>  >  >(Can't
>  >  >  > > >> > happen because of separation of powers).  One point of the
>  >NBPC
>  >  >  > > >> > platform demands: "Pass rent control legislation to stop 
>all
>  >  >rent
>  >  >  > > >> > increases except those necessary to preserve a fair rate 
>of
>  >  >return
>  >  >  > > >> > for landlords' investments, such as to cover repairs and
>  >  >  >improvements
>  >  >  > > >> > to building by the owner, requiring the approval of a
>  >  >  >democratically-
>  >  >  > > >> > elected Rent Control Board and never to exceed cost of
>living
>  >  >  > > >> > increase for that year."  This is despite the fact that NB
>  >has
>  >  >just
>  >  >  > > >> > such a rent control ordinance, albeit one that is
>  >  >  > > >> > underenforced/unenforced and without vacancy control.
>  >  >  >Shouldn't the
>  >  >  > > >> > nonenforcement/vacancy control have been the emphasis of 
>the
>  >  >rent
>  >  >  > > >> > point, rather than demanding something already on the 
>books?
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > I could go on but in sum, my question is: who is doing the
>  >  >  >technical
>  >  >  > > >> > homework on our political work and outreach?
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > Credibility matters, whether we like it or not.  Part of
>  >  >  >credibility
>  >  >  > > >> > is technical accuracy.  (Proper grammar, spelling, and use
>of
>  >  >  >English
>  >  >  > > >> > capitalization rules also help, a point sorely lost on 
>many
>  >of
>  >  >the
>  >  >  > > >> > purportedly "advanced" people who are using the other
>  >egroup).
>  >  >  > > >> > Technical accuracy and the precision of a message can be
>  >  >  >enhanced by
>  >  >  > > >> > welcoming progressives into the campaign who share the
>  >  >campaign's
>  >  >  > > >> > goals and who have the relevant technical and professional
>  >  >  > > >> > knowledge.  Indeed, if we are going to participate in
>  >electoral
>  >  >  > > >> > politics, I'd rather have the progressive technician who
>  >  >  >understands
>  >  >  > > >> > how to get our candidates' names on the ballot 
>participating
>  >in,
>  >  >  > > >> > even "dominating" things, rather than the sloganeer whose
>can
>  >  >mouth
>  >  >  > > >> > a "purer" political consciousness than that of the
>  >progressive
>  >  >  > > >> > technician/professional.
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
>  >wrote:
>  >  >  > > >> >  > Kris-
>  >  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  >  > > >> >  > *My choice of phrasing "landlords & lawyer types", 
>though
>  >not
>  >  >  > > >> > intended to be
>  >  >  > > >> >  > a put down, could be read as such.  I'll rephrase it 
>more
>  >  >  > > >> > accurately & point
>  >  >  > > >> >  > out that the 'political line' of nbpcmembers is/has 
>been
>  >  >  >dominated
>  >  >  > > >> > by the
>  >  >  > > >> >  > class consciousness of the 'progressive professional'.
>  >  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  >  > > >> >  > *From my observations, SWORD has been closer to the
>  >working
>  >  >  >class
>  >  >  > > >> > community
>  >  >  > > >> >  > on the street, irregardless of the criticisms that have
>  >been
>  >  >  >made
>  >  >  > > >> > against
>  >  >  > > >> >  > them.  At one time, the NBPB Coalition held that honor.
>  >but
>  >  >  >NJFO
>  >  >  > > >> > has been
>  >  >  > > >> >  > historically campus/student oriented and while the NBPC
>  >had
>  >  >made
>  >  >  > > >> > inroads
>  >  >  > > >> >  > into the community, it's base is still vastly made up 
>of
>  >  >  >students &
>  >  >  > > >> >  > graduates.
>  >  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  >  > > >> >  > *I'm unclear as to why you immmediately conclude that
>  >  >advocating
>  >  >  > > >> >  > 'revolutionary democracy' equates to "vicious,
>slanderous,
>  >  >  > > >> >  > negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering?"  I've
>  >  >consistantly
>  >  >  > > >> > criticized
>  >  >  > > >> >  > what I view to be 'ultra-leftist' tendencies and
>  >  >'murder-mouth'
>  >  >  > > >> >  > sloganeering, but I refuse to give up my ideas and my
>  >  >  >experiences
>  >  >  > > >> > because
>  >  >  > > >> >  > I'm afraid I might be confused with someone else...I
>agree
>  >  >  >that it
>  >  >  > > >> > is time
>  >  >  > > >> >  > to move on and find a new basis for unity and not to 
>keep
>  >  >  >beating
>  >  >  > > >> > the same
>  >  >  > > >> >  > old horse, but let the records note that I strongly 
>feel
>  >that
>  >  >  > > >> > NJFO 'gave up'
>  >  >  > > >> >  > it's 'revolutionary democratic' *ideological 
>conclusion*
>  >  >  >based on
>  >  >  > > >> > the hard
>  >  >  > > >> >  > fought and won experience of breaking out of the CU
>  >  >shell...in
>  >  >  > > >> > other words,
>  >  >  > > >> >  > the butterfly never left the branch.
>  >  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  >  > > >> >  > This is why I now feel that the most pressing issue
>  >*still*
>  >  >  >is the
>  >  >  > > >> > nature of
>  >  >  > > >> >  > revolutionary democracy* and how that is represented in 
>a
>  >  >United
>  >  >  > > >> > Front. (I
>  >  >  > > >> >  > think we agree that we disagree on this, but precisely
>  >what
>  >  >  >are the
>  >  >  > > >> > points
>  >  >  > > >> >  > of contention. What do we agree on, and what do we
>  >disagree
>  >  >  >on in
>  >  >  > > >> > substance
>  >  >  > > >> >  > not form.  If I curse and you don't like that, it 
>doesn't
>  >  >  >get any
>  >  >  > > >> > closer to
>  >  >  > > >> >  > the heart of the matter.  But if I scream at you or
>  >slander
>  >  >you
>  >  >  > > >> > because
>  >  >  > > >> >  > you're not revolutionary enough, then it does get to 
>the
>  >  >heart
>  >  >  > > >> > because it
>  >  >  > > >> >  > shows that I'm not that interested in building unity 
>with
>  >  >you.
>  >  >I
>  >  >  > > >> > think we
>  >  >  > > >> >  > can agree on this much. Now how does this play out...)
>  >  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  >  > > >> >  > * Two more things, and then I'll hang up and listen:
>  >  >  > > >> >  > 1. Please don't put words in my mouth and then compare
>  >them
>  >  >to
>  >  >  > > >> > those of
>  >  >  > > >> >  > "right-wing turds".
>  >  >  > > >> >  > 2. I also wish that I had thought of the idea to limit
>the
>  >#
>  >  >of
>  >  >  > > >> > postings to
>  >  >  > > >> >  > one-a-day 'back then'...for one thing, I was too
>  >preoccupied
>  >  >  >with
>  >  >  > > >> > my
>  >  >  > > >> >  > revelation that the peoples campaign was not acting as 
>a
>  >  >United
>  >  >  > > >> > Front; that
>  >  >  > > >> >  > NJFO's president had a split with AB and was putting 
>out
>a
>  >  >  >position
>  >  >  > > >> > against
>  >  >  > > >> >  > publishing U&S (no longer "March Seperately, Strike
>  >  >  >Together") to
>  >  >  > > >> > appease
>  >  >  > > >> >  > the Naderites, Republicans & Landlords; that folks were
>  >  >  >generally
>  >  >  > > >> > abandoning
>  >  >  > > >> >  > U&S as a collective organizer; and the big revalation
>that
>  >  >this
>  >  >  > > >> > tendency of
>  >  >  > > >> >  > bannings is just that: a tendency with a long history 
>of
>  >  >  >trial and
>  >  >  > > >> > error
>  >  >  > > >> >  > with little to show for itself in terms of creating a
>  >'pure'
>  >  >  >space
>  >  >  > > >> > for some
>  >  >  > > >> >  > kind of 'real' unity.
>  >  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  >  > > >> >  > Look , Kris, we all have a relatively long history
>  >together.
>  >  >  >  It's
>  >  >  > > >> > hard to
>  >  >  > > >> >  > have things shaken up as much as they have been.  But
>alot
>  >  >  >will be
>  >  >  > > >> >  > determined by how we approach our potential for the
>  >future,
>  >  >  > > >> > beginning on
>  >  >  > > >> >  > Wed. I'm glad to be a part of the bridge building.  See
>  >you
>  >  >  >then.
>  >  >  > > >> > Matt
>  >  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  >  >  > > >> > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  >  >  > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1768
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-06 14:58:39
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
Message:

can't even get you to be half, make your own calls - where's the paper jack?

joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
>Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 22:47:14
>
>1. you are lying about Curtis' track record.
>2. "your whole practice of latching on to one "spokesperson" and
>disregarding >the entire community is now coming full circle." is what I
>would call a slanderous, allbeit confused,  statement about me.
>3. Your acting like an asshole & I'm getting sick of this shit.  You don't
>express a goddamed ounce of interest in truly finding unity, just shoving
>your self-righteous dogmatism down peoples throats.  So, as far a I'm
>concerned, you can fuck off about U&S till you "wake up", cause you
>obviously haven't sorted out the role of the newspaper as a collective
>organizer, as I hear your last stellar performance at Kimako's would 
>attest.
>   Maybe you want to call AB for another meeting on my behalf.
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
>Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 18:19:05 -0400
>
>REPUBLICAN is what curtis is (sigh).
>
>i have the articles and quotes from skunk soaries speaking in public back
>when potts got got and skunk was quoting malcolm, now he's black 
>imperialist
>#1 for NJ.
>
>my attempts to build unity have nothing to do with republicans, how bout
>yours?
>
>matt, you go from calling my statements lies to accusing me of slandering
>people - rather why don't you just keep quite and let the truth be
>comprehended for what it is. nobody wants your answers, what we need from
>you is to organize to bury the republicans. where are the articles for U&S
>with all your time to defend republicans? why isn't the newspaper your
>highest priority?
>
>joe
>
>  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Shank Schundler! working class base?
>  >Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 16:19:33
>  >
>  >It's times like this that the internet & e-group thang becomes 
>dangerous.
>  >I
>  >mean, do I take this shit seriously and strangle my monitor as the 
>public
>  >debate gets dragged down once again into knee deep vitriol, insults and
>  >slander.  Do I take the gloves off & give this post the back of my hand?
>  >Or
>  >do I just scratch my head and wonder what the hell this guy is thinking 
>(&
>  >what this has to do with unity building, or anything remotely
>constructive,
>  >let alone principled debate from a *communist*), while trying to 
>remember
>  >that he's actually my blood, even if he chooses to forget...I'm running
>out
>  >of answers, folks.
>  >
>  >(PS if I thought it would matter for a second to the 2-3 people who 
>think
>  >Curtis is an imperialist (sigh), I would make the effort to bust out my
>  >home
>  >videos of him speaking in public.)
>  >
>  >Yours,or not- Matt
>  >
>  >
>  >Joe wrote:
>  >
>  >don't speak too soon matt, ask keith and ask curtis himself. i can 
>produce
>  >my evidence, you better have your explanation for the people as to why 
>you
>  >are so tight with el senior. your good word don't amount to a hill'a 
>beans
>  >papi.
>  >
>  >further- matt, curtis is a member of the republican party, how could one
>  >advocate anything but republican positions from such a base?
>  >
>  >your whole practice of latching on to one "spokesperson" and 
>disregarding
>  >the entire community is now coming full circle. what shall we learn? 
>what
>  >shall we learn?
>  >
>  >further2- where are the articles for the next U&S issue and what can i 
>do
>  >to
>  >facilitate putting out the issue?
>  >
>  >joe
>  >
>  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class 
>base?
>  >  >Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:23:52
>  >  >
>  >  >I worked with Curtis for 4 years, and I know that this statement by 
>Joe
>  >is
>  >  >unequivically false.  -Matt
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>  >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>  >  >Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:47:38 -0400
>  >  >
>  >  >curtis has never advocated anything but a republican agenda!!! thus, 
>he
>  >has
>  >  >now sealed the deal in an open admission that he is and has been and
>  >will
>  >  >continue to be a member of the republican party. i have documents 
>that
>  >  >prove
>  >  >since 1988 - so much for your arguements...
>  >  >bout them apples??
>  >  >
>  >  >shank schundler!
>  >  >win the peoples' campaign to the people, dump bright/el 
>senior/sinister
>  >  >ford!!
>  >  >
>  >  >the streets are watching --
>  >  >get on board w/july 4 event in new brunswick
>  >  >burn confederate flag in front of 218 george 
>street!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,
>  >  >register voters, promote greasy,
>  >  >feaster park rally w/food, burn confederate flag2
>  >  >fireworks provided by the city (burn another confederate flag3?)
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >  >From: shorepaulie@...
>  >  >  >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >  >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >  >Subject: [njfo] Re: Shank Schundler! working class base?
>  >  >  >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:29:05 -0000
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >You can count me in the anti-republican crusade.  I resigned from
>the
>  >  >  >Repub committee last year and I'm changing my voter reg asap.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >About Joe's words:  No doubt, Joe, that the revolutionaries in the
>  >  >  >NBPC should have been more persistent with open revolutionary 
>calls.
>  >  >  >But the NBPC itself wasn't a revolutionary org., you know that.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >But to say the platform wasn't revolutionary-democratic?????? Come
>  >on,
>  >  >  >now.  The platform was straight up community control and all for
>  >  >  >people's institutions. If that's not rev-dem, then why not?
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >No doubt you guys consistently called for revolution, etc., but 
>you
>  >  >  >guys weren't following Mao's 'On Handling Contradictions Among the
>  >  >  >People' when you viciously attacked Curtis for his ambiguous
>  >  >  >statements.  Curtis didn't back off the platform and he's never
>  >  >  >stopped advocating for revolutionary democracy, even if he 
>wouldn't
>  >  >  >call it 'rev-dem', and, I would argue, even while supporting Rev.
>  >  >  >Soaries with respect to the church (Curtis has never openly
>supported
>  >  >  >Soaries-as-Republican).
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >And in hindsight, it was a mistake to align with Bright.  Had we
>  >known
>  >  >  >better, we could have had independent poll workers.  And while
>Bright
>  >  >  >does sometimes advocate for the people of NB, and sometimes 
>manages
>  >to
>  >  >  >stink up the machine, keeping the UF together with constant threat
>  >  >  >from the Right is part of the reason the NBPC is relatively 
>inactive
>  >  >  >right now.  If we hadn't needed to organize against Frank's right
>  >wing
>  >  >  >attacks, we could have united and consolidated the left much more
>  >  >  >effectively after the election.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >You might want to conclude that inclusion of Frank made expulsion 
>of
>  >  >  >BoL politically more possible.  That's easy to say, but it's 
>wrong.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >I think BoL's expulsion had more to do with your letter (which was
>  >  >  >unprincipled and unprofessional political behavior) rather than
>  >  >  >attempts by NJFO and company to avoid revolutionary struggle.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >You gotta admit that letter you guys signed was against 'march
>  >  >  >separately, strike together', a slogan that all NBPC trends
>supported
>  >  >  >informally.  What ever happened to winning people over to your
>  >  >  >position through side-by-side struggle together, or by persuasive
>  >  >  >arguments that pick up the bucket where it's at?  That's where BoL
>  >  >  >makes its mistakes- not recognizing contradictions within the
>rev-dem
>  >  >  >movement as opportunities to win over your allies, but instead 
>using
>  >  >  >differences (which are ususally limited in their political scope, 
>I
>  >  >  >might add), as launching pads for your vitriol dressed in 
>Amiriesque
>  >  >  >nicknames, and all-out attacks on your allies that forget about
>  >unity.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >That coincides with talking without listening, struggle without
>  >unity,
>  >  >  >and other trends that manifest themselves in meetings, in
>  >  >  >revolutionary literature, and especially in contentious
>conversations
>  >  >  >with individuals.  I think BoL needs to get serious about its
>  >personal
>  >  >  >and political conduct.  You criticize bannings and expulsions but
>you
>  >  >  >push your allies up against walls and badger them until they 
>'agree'
>  >  >  >with you.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >This all shows that we need new conventions about unity.  Our old
>  >  >  >conceptions of 'unity' come from our fight clubs not out of
>  >  >  >appreciation for the power of revolutionary alliances and the 
>united
>  >  >  >front.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >When you say the BoL dominated the Outreach Committee, you're 
>right.
>  >  >  >The Outreach Committee was the power base of BoL.  They yelled at
>  >  >  >everyone who wasn't BoL and generally acted in a hostile manner
>  >  >  >towards people who didn't show an ironclad commitment to 
>canvassing.
>  >  >  >They did survey and canvass like the Dickens, but they did their
>best
>  >  >  >to alienate everyone else.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >When I think about cultural revolution, I think about these 
>things.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >Paul
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >--- In njfo@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>  >  >  > > (re: paul)
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > through seeing who is being organized to your positions and 
>why.
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > not so insignificant as you might think, uniting with
>republicans.
>  >  >  > > why don't you explain to jayson hankins and myself why you 
>would
>  >  >  > > rather have fucbright on the steering committee than himself?
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > i am not and never have been anti-nbpc, nor am i ultra-left.
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > to claim that the nbpc represented the working class with a
>  >  >  >revolutionary
>  >  >  > > democratic program is a lie, lier. xavier and njfo members led
>the
>  >  >  >expulsion
>  >  >  > > of any open revolutionary democratic programs being organized 
>in
>  >the
>  >  >  > > peoples' campaign. let alone the bankrupt attack and guttering 
>of
>  >the
>  >  >  > > national election. since BOL and others from nb were/ARE
>expelled,
>  >  >  >there has
>  >  >  > > yet to be any open revolutionary programs put forward by the
>nbpc.
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > yes the nbpc talked to thousands of nb working class residents
>  >  >  >through the
>  >  >  > > canvass which was organized by the outreach committee which was
>  >led
>  >  >  >by BOL.
>  >  >  > > the motorcade, the surveys, the picnic were all organized 
>through
>  >the
>  >  >  > > outreach committee which was dominated by BOL. where is the
>  >outreach
>  >  >  > > committee now?, where is any public display of the nbpc?
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > you never explained to the people that you were/ARE all
>registered
>  >  >  > > REPUBLICANS!
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > as far as what % of the working class vote nbpc received, the
>  >losing
>  >  >%.
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > Beat Bush!! Nix Nader!! sound familiar Flavier?
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > if there is a working class base organized promoting
>revolutionary
>  >  >  > > democratic programs in nb, where is it? and how can SWORD get
>  >  >involved?
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > why do we as revolutionaries build allainces? not to drop our
>OPEN
>  >  >  > > AND ABOVE BOARD revolutionary positions, but to further them.
>  >  >currently
>  >  >  > > there are more nb people agreeing with republican positions on
>  >public
>  >  >  > > housing than are agreeing with revolutionary democratic 
>positions
>  >on
>  >  >  >public
>  >  >  > > housing. or is there not a difference??????????????????????
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > nbpc recieved 1900+ votes for republican candidates for city
>  >  >  >council. how
>  >  >  > > many votes did nbpc receive for revolutionary democracy?
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > >                    000000
>  >  >  > >                   0      0
>  >  >  > >                  0        0
>  >  >  > >                 0          0
>  >  >  > >                 0          0
>  >  >  > >                 0          0
>  >  >  > >                  0        0
>  >  >  > >                   0      0
>  >  >  > >                    000000
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > you can't play me
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > >
>  >  >  > > >From: shorepaulie@h...
>  >  >  > > >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  >  >  > > >>To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  >  >  > > >>Subject: [nbpc] working class base?
>  >  >  > > >>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:58:06 -0000
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>Matt wrote:  But the point is that we need
>  >  >  > > >> > to sort out ... why the campaign lacked a working class
>base.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>Paul writes:  Yea, I think that's the bottom line issue here.
>  >  >Matthew
>  >  >  > > >>and others have contended that we didn't reach the working
>class
>  >  >with
>  >  >  > > >>the NBPC.  I can't think of many things farther from the 
>truth.
>  >  >I've
>  >  >  > > >>personally tried to convey this so many times....that we 
>spoke
>  >with
>  >  >  > > >>thousands of working class people  who were down with 
>community
>  >  >  > > >>control, down with the platform, down with democracy.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>As some may guess, many of these working class people whom I
>  >  >  > > >>personally met can talk the issues much better than some 
>local
>  >  >  > > >>'organizers' and many of the 'advanced' who need to learn to
>  >  >listen.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>You say we didn't have a working class base, but the platform
>  >was
>  >  >  > > >>derived from conversation with mainly working class people.
>The
>  >  >  > > >>tactics on canvass were derived mainly from conversations, 
>that
>  >is,
>  >  >  > > >>informal agitation and propaganda among the broad mass of
>  >working
>  >  >  > > >>class people in NB.  We reinforced our emphases based on
>  >continued
>  >  >  > > >>interaction.  We had working class people out in the field, 
>in
>  >our
>  >  >  > > >>meetings, working on election day, spreading the buzz of the
>  >NBPC,
>  >  >  >etc.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>But you may still say we lacked working class base.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>As a communist, I'll say that our most important job is to
>  >  >represent
>  >  >  > > >>working class interests whenever and wherever possible.  I
>think
>  >my
>  >  >  > > >>arguments, which are well-honed now that I've repeated them 
>so
>  >many
>  >  >  > > >>times, stand for themselves.  You can say my premises are 
>wrong
>  >and
>  >  >my
>  >  >  > > >>experience non-scientific, but that's how I and others stand 
>on
>  >the
>  >  >  > > >>campaign experience.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>As far as getting out the working class vote goes,  we don't
>yet
>  >  >know
>  >  >  > > >>what percentage of our vote was working class.  I think that
>  >  >deserves
>  >  >  > > >>much attention:  at a meeting with Unity and Struggle the 
>other
>  >  >night,
>  >  >  > > >>the NBPC was roundly dismissed as an opportunist adventure in
>  >which
>  >  >  > > >>revolutionaries sold out their principles to form 
>partnerships
>  >with
>  >  >  > > >>pro-Bush forces.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>That conclusion, embraced mainly by the far Left among us,
>  >ignores
>  >  >the
>  >  >  > > >>political experience of the campaign as it relates to the
>  >political
>  >  >  > > >>experience of the working class voters of NB.  To dismiss the
>  >  >campaign
>  >  >  > > >>on the grounds of two strategic alliances which barely 
>affected
>  >  >  > > >>tactics is to ignore the largest question of progressive and
>  >  >  > > >>revolutionary politics....that is:   how do we mobilize the
>  >working
>  >  >  > > >>class and in doing that, what tasks are principal for
>  >  >pro-democratic
>  >  >  > > >>forces who would mobilize the political disfranchised 
>classes.
>  >Any
>  >  >  > > >>analysis of these questions has to take practice into 
>account.
>  >But
>  >  >  > > >>this type of practice was not on the agenda on Wednesday in
>  >Newark.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>If opportunism exists in the NBPC defenders camp, then it
>  >certainly
>  >  >  > > >>exists among those associated with Unity and Struggle who
>  >contend
>  >  >that
>  >  >  > > >>the campaign didn't have a working class base, that the
>campaign
>  >  >was
>  >  >  > > >>not revolutionary-democratic, who say these things without
>  >detailed
>  >  >  > > >>investigation.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>I don't think that the anti-NBPC U&S crowd has even listened 
>to
>  >to
>  >  >  > > >>pro-NBPC arguments. That's not only unprinicipled, but
>  >opportunist
>  >  >  > > >>because they use their unfounded arguments to discount the
>  >  >  > > >>revolutionary practice of the campaign.  This dissing of
>  >  >revolutionary
>  >  >  > > >>practice is predicated on the less-significant alliances 
>formed
>  >  >with
>  >  >  > > >>Greens and Republicans.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>It's precisely this de-emphasis (even ignorance) of current
>  >trends
>  >  >in
>  >  >  > > >>revolutionary practice that allows this faction to seem
>credible
>  >in
>  >  >  > > >>this ongoing debate.
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>I'm going to end with a question, because now I'm 
>listening---
>  >  >  > > >>Getting back to the beginning:  how do we evaluate our
>practice?
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>
>  >  >  > > >>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" 
><vivaohio@h...>
>  >  >wrote:
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > Totally agreed that the movement needs "technicians and
>  >  >progressive
>  >  >  > > >> > professionsals...(look, i'm a college student studying to 
>be
>  >an
>  >  >  > > >>architect
>  >  >  > > >> > which is about as technical  as you can get)  But the 
>point
>  >is
>  >  >that
>  >  >  > > >>we need
>  >  >  > > >> > to sort out the question of what the United Front is, and
>why
>  >  >the
>  >  >  > > >>campaign
>  >  >  > > >> > lacked a working class base.
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > Here's an anecdote: I was just working with this 
>third-wrold
>  >  >  >grassroots
>  >  >  > > >> > coalition on building a full scale model house in the 
>United
>  >  >  >Nations
>  >  >  > > >>for a
>  >  >  > > >> > convention on low-income housing.  After a week of working
>  >  >  >together,
>  >  >  > > >>I asked
>  >  >  > > >> > their leader, Jokin, an old Indian man, how I could join 
>the
>  >  >  > > >>organization.
>  >  >  > > >> > He looked at me puzzled, and asked me, WHy do you ask how
>you
>  >  >can
>  >  >  > > >>join what
>  >  >  > > >> > you've already joined?!  That's the difference in the mode
>of
>  >  >  > > >>organizing,
>  >  >  > > >> > and it's a consciousness that comes *from* the grassroots,
>  >  >  >*not* the
>  >  >  > > >> > technical progressives.  & When I say that there is a
>  >dominant
>  >  >  > > >>tendancy, or
>  >  >  > > >> > ideology, that represents the "progressive professional" 
>it
>  >  >doesn't
>  >  >  > > >>mean
>  >  >  > > >> > that you, Flavio, not needed (BTW I haven't had my court
>date
>  >  >  > > >>rescheduled
>  >  >  > > >> > yet ;)  ...it means that something else is lacking, and 
>has
>  >  >  > > >>historically
>  >  >  > > >> > been so. And that is the working class.  & It is only with
>  >  >working
>  >  >  > > >>class
>  >  >  > > >> > consciousness that **revolutionary democracy** will not be
>  >  >  >compromised,
>  >  >  > > >> > because the W.C. doesn't have the option of "getting jobs"
>  >like
>  >  >so
>  >  >  > > >>many of
>  >  >  > > >> > our parents generation did......So it is *of necessity* 
>that
>  >the
>  >  >  > > >>W.C. will
>  >  >  > > >> > ultimately inspire all of us progressive and revolutionary
>  >  >  > > >>technicians to
>  >  >  > > >> > get it together and participate in the construction of an
>  >  >  >actual United
>  >  >  > > >> > Front against this mess. and for democracy, by any means
>  >  >necessary.
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > -Matt
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > ----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >  > > >> > From: Groovemeister007@y...
>  >  >  > > >> > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  >  >  > > >> > To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  >  >  > > >> > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] Change the Name; Keep 
>the
>  >  >Essence
>  >  >  > > >> > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:56:10 -0000
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > It is my understanding that even Mao advocated that
>political
>  >  >  >leaders
>  >  >  > > >> > had to be both "red and expert," i.e. to understand both
>  >  >  >politics as
>  >  >  > > >> > well as more technical matters such as industry (or even
>  >law).
>  >  >  > > >> > Not "red and ignorant" or "red and alienating."  As he
>  >  >explained,
>  >  >a
>  >  >  > > >> > person with only a political line is "pseudo-red,
>  >empty-headedly
>  >  >  > > >> > political."
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > The campaign needs technicians in its ranks.  I also 
>believe
>  >  >  >that to
>  >  >  > > >> > be "advanced" one must have more than a class 
>consciousness.
>  >  >While
>  >  >  > > >> > petition signatures were being collected for the 2000 
>board
>  >of
>  >  >  >ed and
>  >  >  > > >> > municipal elections, some turkeys decided it would be
>  >  >  >permissible to
>  >  >  > > >> > get signatures from people living in _North_ Brunswick
>(which
>  >  >are
>  >  >  > > >> > invalid in a _New_ Brunswick election).  Just recently, 
>some
>  >  >other
>  >  >  > > >> > turkeys on the other egroup advocated letters to USA 
>Cleary
>  >  >asking
>  >  >  > > >> > him to "overturn" a judge's ruling nullifying a jury 
>verdict
>  >  >(Can't
>  >  >  > > >> > happen because of separation of powers).  One point of the
>  >NBPC
>  >  >  > > >> > platform demands: "Pass rent control legislation to stop 
>all
>  >  >rent
>  >  >  > > >> > increases except those necessary to preserve a fair rate 
>of
>  >  >return
>  >  >  > > >> > for landlords' investments, such as to cover repairs and
>  >  >  >improvements
>  >  >  > > >> > to building by the owner, requiring the approval of a
>  >  >  >democratically-
>  >  >  > > >> > elected Rent Control Board and never to exceed cost of
>living
>  >  >  > > >> > increase for that year."  This is despite the fact that NB
>  >has
>  >  >just
>  >  >  > > >> > such a rent control ordinance, albeit one that is
>  >  >  > > >> > underenforced/unenforced and without vacancy control.
>  >  >  >Shouldn't the
>  >  >  > > >> > nonenforcement/vacancy control have been the emphasis of 
>the
>  >  >rent
>  >  >  > > >> > point, rather than demanding something already on the 
>books?
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > I could go on but in sum, my question is: who is doing the
>  >  >  >technical
>  >  >  > > >> > homework on our political work and outreach?
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > Credibility matters, whether we like it or not.  Part of
>  >  >  >credibility
>  >  >  > > >> > is technical accuracy.  (Proper grammar, spelling, and use
>of
>  >  >  >English
>  >  >  > > >> > capitalization rules also help, a point sorely lost on 
>many
>  >of
>  >  >the
>  >  >  > > >> > purportedly "advanced" people who are using the other
>  >egroup).
>  >  >  > > >> > Technical accuracy and the precision of a message can be
>  >  >  >enhanced by
>  >  >  > > >> > welcoming progressives into the campaign who share the
>  >  >campaign's
>  >  >  > > >> > goals and who have the relevant technical and professional
>  >  >  > > >> > knowledge.  Indeed, if we are going to participate in
>  >electoral
>  >  >  > > >> > politics, I'd rather have the progressive technician who
>  >  >  >understands
>  >  >  > > >> > how to get our candidates' names on the ballot 
>participating
>  >in,
>  >  >  > > >> > even "dominating" things, rather than the sloganeer whose
>can
>  >  >mouth
>  >  >  > > >> > a "purer" political consciousness than that of the
>  >progressive
>  >  >  > > >> > technician/professional.
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
>  >wrote:
>  >  >  > > >> >  > Kris-
>  >  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  >  > > >> >  > *My choice of phrasing "landlords & lawyer types", 
>though
>  >not
>  >  >  > > >> > intended to be
>  >  >  > > >> >  > a put down, could be read as such.  I'll rephrase it 
>more
>  >  >  > > >> > accurately & point
>  >  >  > > >> >  > out that the 'political line' of nbpcmembers is/has 
>been
>  >  >  >dominated
>  >  >  > > >> > by the
>  >  >  > > >> >  > class consciousness of the 'progressive professional'.
>  >  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  >  > > >> >  > *From my observations, SWORD has been closer to the
>  >working
>  >  >  >class
>  >  >  > > >> > community
>  >  >  > > >> >  > on the street, irregardless of the criticisms that have
>  >been
>  >  >  >made
>  >  >  > > >> > against
>  >  >  > > >> >  > them.  At one time, the NBPB Coalition held that honor.
>  >but
>  >  >  >NJFO
>  >  >  > > >> > has been
>  >  >  > > >> >  > historically campus/student oriented and while the NBPC
>  >had
>  >  >made
>  >  >  > > >> > inroads
>  >  >  > > >> >  > into the community, it's base is still vastly made up 
>of
>  >  >  >students &
>  >  >  > > >> >  > graduates.
>  >  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  >  > > >> >  > *I'm unclear as to why you immmediately conclude that
>  >  >advocating
>  >  >  > > >> >  > 'revolutionary democracy' equates to "vicious,
>slanderous,
>  >  >  > > >> >  > negative, violent, repetitive sloganeering?"  I've
>  >  >consistantly
>  >  >  > > >> > criticized
>  >  >  > > >> >  > what I view to be 'ultra-leftist' tendencies and
>  >  >'murder-mouth'
>  >  >  > > >> >  > sloganeering, but I refuse to give up my ideas and my
>  >  >  >experiences
>  >  >  > > >> > because
>  >  >  > > >> >  > I'm afraid I might be confused with someone else...I
>agree
>  >  >  >that it
>  >  >  > > >> > is time
>  >  >  > > >> >  > to move on and find a new basis for unity and not to 
>keep
>  >  >  >beating
>  >  >  > > >> > the same
>  >  >  > > >> >  > old horse, but let the records note that I strongly 
>feel
>  >that
>  >  >  > > >> > NJFO 'gave up'
>  >  >  > > >> >  > it's 'revolutionary democratic' *ideological 
>conclusion*
>  >  >  >based on
>  >  >  > > >> > the hard
>  >  >  > > >> >  > fought and won experience of breaking out of the CU
>  >  >shell...in
>  >  >  > > >> > other words,
>  >  >  > > >> >  > the butterfly never left the branch.
>  >  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  >  > > >> >  > This is why I now feel that the most pressing issue
>  >*still*
>  >  >  >is the
>  >  >  > > >> > nature of
>  >  >  > > >> >  > revolutionary democracy* and how that is represented in 
>a
>  >  >United
>  >  >  > > >> > Front. (I
>  >  >  > > >> >  > think we agree that we disagree on this, but precisely
>  >what
>  >  >  >are the
>  >  >  > > >> > points
>  >  >  > > >> >  > of contention. What do we agree on, and what do we
>  >disagree
>  >  >  >on in
>  >  >  > > >> > substance
>  >  >  > > >> >  > not form.  If I curse and you don't like that, it 
>doesn't
>  >  >  >get any
>  >  >  > > >> > closer to
>  >  >  > > >> >  > the heart of the matter.  But if I scream at you or
>  >slander
>  >  >you
>  >  >  > > >> > because
>  >  >  > > >> >  > you're not revolutionary enough, then it does get to 
>the
>  >  >heart
>  >  >  > > >> > because it
>  >  >  > > >> >  > shows that I'm not that interested in building unity 
>with
>  >  >you.
>  >  >I
>  >  >  > > >> > think we
>  >  >  > > >> >  > can agree on this much. Now how does this play out...)
>  >  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  >  > > >> >  > * Two more things, and then I'll hang up and listen:
>  >  >  > > >> >  > 1. Please don't put words in my mouth and then compare
>  >them
>  >  >to
>  >  >  > > >> > those of
>  >  >  > > >> >  > "right-wing turds".
>  >  >  > > >> >  > 2. I also wish that I had thought of the idea to limit
>the
>  >#
>  >  >of
>  >  >  > > >> > postings to
>  >  >  > > >> >  > one-a-day 'back then'...for one thing, I was too
>  >preoccupied
>  >  >  >with
>  >  >  > > >> > my
>  >  >  > > >> >  > revelation that the peoples campaign was not acting as 
>a
>  >  >United
>  >  >  > > >> > Front; that
>  >  >  > > >> >  > NJFO's president had a split with AB and was putting 
>out
>a
>  >  >  >position
>  >  >  > > >> > against
>  >  >  > > >> >  > publishing U&S (no longer "March Seperately, Strike
>  >  >  >Together") to
>  >  >  > > >> > appease
>  >  >  > > >> >  > the Naderites, Republicans & Landlords; that folks were
>  >  >  >generally
>  >  >  > > >> > abandoning
>  >  >  > > >> >  > U&S as a collective organizer; and the big revalation
>that
>  >  >this
>  >  >  > > >> > tendency of
>  >  >  > > >> >  > bannings is just that: a tendency with a long history 
>of
>  >  >  >trial and
>  >  >  > > >> > error
>  >  >  > > >> >  > with little to show for itself in terms of creating a
>  >'pure'
>  >  >  >space
>  >  >  > > >> > for some
>  >  >  > > >> >  > kind of 'real' unity.
>  >  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  >  > > >> >  > Look , Kris, we all have a relatively long history
>  >together.
>  >  >  >  It's
>  >  >  > > >> > hard to
>  >  >  > > >> >  > have things shaken up as much as they have been.  But
>alot
>  >  >  >will be
>  >  >  > > >> >  > determined by how we approach our potential for the
>  >future,
>  >  >  > > >> > beginning on
>  >  >  > > >> >  > Wed. I'm glad to be a part of the bridge building.  See
>  >you
>  >  >  >then.
>  >  >  > > >> > Matt
>  >  >  > > >> >  >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  >  >  > > >> > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  >  >  > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
>  >  >  > > >> >
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>  >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>  >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1769
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-06 15:41:42
Subject:Re: NBPC opposition to Schundler
Message:

Your're wrong, Joe!

> the new brunswick peoples' campaign  last meeting had 5 out of 14 
people 
> republican voting that the campaign endorse schundler. 

The motion that we oppose Schundler passed.  I voted in favor of that 
motion.  A number of people abstained because, as I recall the debate 
(note I was there and you were not) there was a sense that as a local 
political group it was inappropriate to divert our efforts to 
statewide battles that others are fighting.

You are either misinformed or lying when you say that 5 of 14 voted 
to endorse Schundler.  Since you were not at the meeting, I am 
assuming you were simply misinformed.









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1770
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-06 18:30:16
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: NBPC opposition to Schundler
Message:

what was the vote on and how did it go down specifically.

my information is from keith.

the fact that there are any members of the peoples campaign opposed to 
stomping schundler reflects the fact that the peoples' campaign does not 
fully represent the people. all republicans should be immediately removed 
from the peoples' campaign or else the name should be changed to the 
anti-peoples campaign.

joe


>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: NBPC opposition to Schundler
>Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 19:41:42 -0000
>
>
>Your're wrong, Joe!
>
> > the new brunswick peoples' campaign  last meeting had 5 out of 14
>people
> > republican voting that the campaign endorse schundler.
>
>The motion that we oppose Schundler passed.  I voted in favor of that
>motion.  A number of people abstained because, as I recall the debate
>(note I was there and you were not) there was a sense that as a local
>political group it was inappropriate to divert our efforts to
>statewide battles that others are fighting.
>
>You are either misinformed or lying when you say that 5 of 14 voted
>to endorse Schundler.  Since you were not at the meeting, I am
>assuming you were simply misinformed.
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1771
Sender:citruswar@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-07 09:57:54
Subject:Re: [nbpc] U&S production- lack there of...
Message:

To all concerned!

I know it may seem strange that I openly advocate being a republican, but I 
have also stressed that I am a People's Campain Republican!  I feel deep in 
my heart that it is important for me to hold on to this new  political title.

I can only work to change the image of the Republican Party if I'm in the 
Republican Party.  When the human body is sick, the doctor gives you a 
prescription to put inside your mouth, thus inside of the body.  I am trying 
to work on that theory.  That I can work from the inside out and change the 
Republican Party into a People's Campaign Republican Party.  Our original 
idea for People's Campaign was that all political groups could come together 
for the common good of mankind.  If we loose this theory then we have lost 
the original spirit of People's Campaign.  I no longer will get angry or 
upset with anyone who decides to deface, slander or make negative comments 
about other Republicans including:  Reverend  Dr. DeForest Blake Soaries Jr.  
When you take a baby, who is hungry and wet and crying out for attention, the 
baby does not care whether or not the mother or father attends to it.  It is 
just satisfied to know that its needs are met.  We should feel the same way 
about the needs of this nation.  Communist, Democrats, Republicans, 
Right-Winged, Left-Winged, etc. should work toward the common goal.  The old 
saying: "Two heads are better than one" I feel will really work for our 
cause.  I cannot account or justify anyone else's actions but my own.  I am a 
People's Campaign Republican until People' s Campaign does something that is 
directly against its original theory of serving the people.

Curtis L. Warren Sr.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1772
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-07 16:39:47
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: What Is The Next Big Idea? Buzz Is Growing for 'Empire'
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by cliffsmith69@....

how smart academia...

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"Empire," a heady treatise on globalization.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/07/arts/07IDEA.html?ex=995538386&ei=1&en=caed7a60b38ce9a4

/-----------------------------------------------------------------\


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1773
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-07 14:13:07
Subject:Re: U&S production- lack there of...
Message:

can_curtis, ban_bright, stomp_soaries, flatten_ford,
BURY BRET!!
PEOPLES WAR ON THE RIGHT!!

SHANK SHUNDLER!!

STEP 1:
remove all republicans from NB Peoples' Campaign

STEP 2:
reinstate joe smith, cliff smith, tamara dahan, JR, jayson hankins, nicole 
engel

STEP 3:
shank schundler, attack/endorse greasy

STEP 4:
RAS BARAKA FOR NEWARK CITY COUNCIL -
meeting every tuesday 7:30 808 S. 10th str. Newark
knock on doors every saturday and sunday
    -saturday meet 9:00am 808 S. 10th str. Newark
    -sunday meet 2:00pm 808 S. 10th str. Newark

STEP 5:
?? NB elections 2002



>From: citruswar@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] U&S production- lack there of...
>Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 09:57:54 EDT
>
>To all concerned!
>
>I know it may seem strange that I openly advocate being a republican, but I
>have also stressed that I am a People's Campain Republican!  I feel deep in
>my heart that it is important for me to hold on to this new  political 
>title.
>
>I can only work to change the image of the Republican Party if I'm in the
>Republican Party.  When the human body is sick, the doctor gives you a
>prescription to put inside your mouth, thus inside of the body.  I am 
>trying
>to work on that theory.  That I can work from the inside out and change the
>Republican Party into a People's Campaign Republican Party.  Our original
>idea for People's Campaign was that all political groups could come 
>together
>for the common good of mankind.  If we loose this theory then we have lost
>the original spirit of People's Campaign.  I no longer will get angry or
>upset with anyone who decides to deface, slander or make negative comments
>about other Republicans including:  Reverend  Dr. DeForest Blake Soaries 
>Jr.
>When you take a baby, who is hungry and wet and crying out for attention, 
>the
>baby does not care whether or not the mother or father attends to it.  It 
>is
>just satisfied to know that its needs are met.  We should feel the same way
>about the needs of this nation.  Communist, Democrats, Republicans,
>Right-Winged, Left-Winged, etc. should work toward the common goal.  The 
>old
>saying: "Two heads are better than one" I feel will really work for our
>cause.  I cannot account or justify anyone else's actions but my own.  I am 
>a
>People's Campaign Republican until People' s Campaign does something that 
>is
>directly against its original theory of serving the people.
>
>Curtis L. Warren Sr.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1774
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-07 14:38:32
Subject:up...&coming!
Message:

A Revolution
Gwendolyn Wilson

Folks are always out there
	Yappin' & yappin'  & yappin' about a revolution.
The same revolution we only have time
	To talk about.
We don't know how to see
        The power there is to see in a revolution.
We don't know how to be
        What there is to be in a revolution.
We leave that up to the few, the strong,
	The estranged Black Brothers & Sisters
Who be out there actin' on, movin' on, groovin' on, attackin' on
	That revolutionary thing from dusk till dawn
Because, see, somebody's got to do it.

Somebody's got to do that revolutionary do,
	Do you hear me?
And if we all had the courage and the energy
	Of mind and body, & the spirituality that our ancestors had,
(Don't get me wrong, I didn't say religion but spirituality.)
        Then we would all be down for the cause.
And if we was all down for the cause,
	Then we could stop messin' around with the cause.
Cause I think we all need to be up in that bold
	And beautiful, but dangerous word called
R E V O L U T I O N,
        a revolution.

And I know how hard it is for you and me
	To get up in that thing called a revolution.
Cause, see, you and me, we woke up Black
	& folks is always trying to hold us back.
But that is no reason for us to continually be
        trampled on like slaves,
and buried in our graves.
        But when you think about Life, Liberty,
& that Pursuit of Happiness thing,
	I wonder can we have that?
Can we have Life?  Can we have Liberty?
        Can we have the Pursuit of Happiness?
The answer is No!
        Not if we don't stop shootin' up our Brothers & Sisters
And start shootin' a hole, or two, or three,
        Into this weak-minded, manipulating society.

Not if we don't put down the blunts
	And start picking up the Black History books.
If we don't stop burning our veins
	And start polishing our brains,
Then we will be drained in this society,
	The 'land of the free.'
And that's what America, and that's what America,
	And that's what America wants from you & me.
But I can't do it because I'm so tired of all this
	Sexism & this classism & this racism
That I get dealt a double-dose of every day.
	Because I woke up Black,
Somebody's always trying to hold me back.

Because, see, the 'big picture' didn't include no
	Brown paint, no dreads,
No smooth walk, no ebonic talk,
	No pretty brown eyes, no huggable thighs,
No rich hips, no luscious lips,
	No 'What up?', Ain't that some stuff?
Well, I'm here now, & I'm in the picture, you see?
	And you got to deal with me.
So I'm expecting you & you & you & you
        to have my back,
And I will have your back in this thing.
        I call it R E V O L U T I O N,
A revolution.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1775
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-07 15:01:04
Subject:Re: [nbpc] U&S production- lack there of...
Message:

el senior, you are a peoples' campaign sell-out!! now get out!

you did not ever, until exposed, come out with being republican!

the peoples' campaign was founded to launch the platform of democratic 
community control over the institutions that control the community, lier!

el comprador, what exactly is your problem with the republican party, that 
you suggest "I can only work to change the image republican party if i'm in 
the republican party"?

stop acting like you wear diapers, republicans serve white supremacy and 
international finance capital, to say otherwise will further expose your 
sell-out desires.

fuck you. fuck your boss. fuck his boss. and fuck schundler!
your just waiting for skunk to come around to schundler you wannaB.

joe smith
Stundent/Worker Organization For Revolutionary Democracy
732.586.5535
13 James Street New Brunswick 08901
can_bush@...




>From: citruswar@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] U&S production- lack there of...
>Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 09:57:54 EDT
>
>To all concerned!
>
>I know it may seem strange that I openly advocate being a republican, but I
>have also stressed that I am a People's Campain Republican!  I feel deep in
>my heart that it is important for me to hold on to this new  political 
>title.
>
>I can only work to change the image of the Republican Party if I'm in the
>Republican Party.  When the human body is sick, the doctor gives you a
>prescription to put inside your mouth, thus inside of the body.  I am 
>trying
>to work on that theory.  That I can work from the inside out and change the
>Republican Party into a People's Campaign Republican Party.  Our original
>idea for People's Campaign was that all political groups could come 
>together
>for the common good of mankind.  If we loose this theory then we have lost
>the original spirit of People's Campaign.  I no longer will get angry or
>upset with anyone who decides to deface, slander or make negative comments
>about other Republicans including:  Reverend  Dr. DeForest Blake Soaries 
>Jr.
>When you take a baby, who is hungry and wet and crying out for attention, 
>the
>baby does not care whether or not the mother or father attends to it.  It 
>is
>just satisfied to know that its needs are met.  We should feel the same way
>about the needs of this nation.  Communist, Democrats, Republicans,
>Right-Winged, Left-Winged, etc. should work toward the common goal.  The 
>old
>saying: "Two heads are better than one" I feel will really work for our
>cause.  I cannot account or justify anyone else's actions but my own.  I am 
>a
>People's Campaign Republican until People' s Campaign does something that 
>is
>directly against its original theory of serving the people.
>
>Curtis L. Warren Sr.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1776
Sender:citruswar@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-07 22:16:52
Subject:Re: [nbpc] U&S production- lack there of...
Message:

I fell sorry for you Joe!  I will not feed into any of your trivial and 
delusive behavior.  The internet is not supposed to be used to make 
slanderous and vicious remarks about each other and I will not continue to 
take anything that you say seriously until your do either 

1)  Act and conduct yourself like a man 
2)  Treat myself and the rest of the People's Campaign with respect
3)  Discontinue using vile and ignorant remarks while sending e-mails

Until then,  talk to yourself, because no one else is listening!


  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1777
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-08 14:24:48
Subject:Demand Community Control Over Redevelopment
Message:

Jobs for NB residents!!

Rally Monday Morning 10:00am
NB Projects Neilson Street

Rally is being organized by union that is going to war with the NB Housing 
Authority and their "rat contract" with the developers of the projects. 
These developers have been exposed as illegally removing aspestos and for 
not hiring any city residents to work this contract.
There have been fliers posted throughout the Remsen Ave area of town (at 
least) on cars and in peoples windows by the rally organizers. This is a 
tremendous opportunity to join a working class defensive with regards to 
J&J's Fascist Redevelopment.

contact joe smith for more info
732.586.5535
can_bush@...

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1778
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-08 16:16:09
Subject:Fwd: Just a reminder...
Message:



>From: "Greg Di Gesu" <gregdig65@...>
>To: "Cliff Smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Subject: Just a reminder...
>Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:35:13 -0400
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1779
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-08 16:56:54
Subject:Sell-Out Warren exposed, June, 2000.
Message:

Curtis Warren's public statements following May, 2000 Peoples' 
Campaign Convention, printed in HomeNewsTribune, Ken Serrano, 
reporting:

"It's a huge fight.  We're fighting against old-boy politics, against 
huge money and old ideas.  But we're not here to tear down the 
political machine, we're just here to do better."

"Warren stressed what has been a talking point for many of the people 
associated with the People's Campaign: 'How can we be a health-care 
city and let this drug problem go on like it is?'

"He said he would work to promote joint efforts with health-care 
companies in New Brunswick to deal with that and other problems."

**********************************************************************
Block on Lock's statement, submitted to Peoples' Campaign Steering 
Committee, June 2000:

(All signees immediately, unanimously expelled by Steering Committee 
members including Keith Joseph, Xavier Hansen, Curtis Warren, Frank 
Bright.)

**********************************************************************

As uniting basis of our campaign, we are agreed to uphold and fight 
for the platform of Community Control as determined through results
of 
our door-to-door survey.

In our '00 election year strategy, we have agreed to challenge for 
city council, as against a political machine that has for decades 
defeated every opposition it has faced.  Rather it has expanded to 
send machine boss/former mayor Cahill uncle, John Lynch, to the New 
Jersey Senate where he rose to Senate President under the Democratic 
Florio administration--the 2nd ranking Democrat in New Jersey.

Parallel opportunist Sucker Soaries of New Brunswick/Franklin 1st 
Baptist Church--turned whore after the 1991 N.B. police murder of 
resident Shaun Potts.  "Keeper of the Shaun Potts Tree" Soaries 
parlayed his hustle into nazi-Whitman's administration where he's now 
N.J. Secretary of State, to smooth tension from jack-booted State 
Police storm-trooper "profiling", "drug-war" agression.

This political machine crafted with the best urban development 
strategists FBI/COINTELPRO methods/experience that Johnson&Johnson's 
$25 billion annual revenue/international network can impose.  As was 
put to me, "We are against a juggernaut."

Can there be any question whatever that our Peoples' Platform for 
Community Control is in complete contradiction fo J&J,etc.'s 
imperialist, murderous stranglehold which it maintains through an 
experienced, financed political machine?  The same political machine 
that ran Amiri Baraka and others from the Rutgers faculty, that
purged 
student activists, that drove Assata Shakur from the country (didn't 
Cahill molest Shakur when she was the only woman locked in the cellar 
of Middlesex County Courthouse?).

Can anyone who supports our platform have any question that its 
victory depends entirely on the overthrow of Bosses Cahill&Lynch, of 
their appointments Beltranena&Larkin, and the complete defeat of
their 
political machine?  But these questions exist inside our campaign.

More dangerous than Bright Frank McCarthy's compassionate 
conservativism, narrow Jim Luceno's armchair revolutionaries, NJFO's 
constant sabotage of the elected board of education campaign, more 
dangerous is a "Peoples' Candidate" who "invents" issues that come 
more from Nancy Reagan than community responses to our surveys.  
(Where was "Drug Problem" in our top 5? 10? 20?)  Why?  To "invent" 
Traitor Soaries solution of co-operating with J&J to solve them. 
(Who 
by J&J is the biggest drug producer & distributor in  New Brunswick?) 
 (Never mind the N.B. police!!)  Our campaign calls to organize the 
people to Seize Power! to solve our own problems as we see them.

Curtis Warren, who suddenly announces himself not as bus driver, 
janitor, maintenance, handyman, laborer, etc., but security for snake 
Soaries' 1st Bobo Church, and Missionary of God, minutes after 
accepting his candidacy as Peoples' Representative, hedges his bet.  
Professing "Unite, Organize, Seize Power!" to the convention, Curtis 
"Say Sellout" Warren switched once bleating to the HomeNewsTribune 
"But we're not here to tear down the political machine, we're just 
here to do better."

Nope, Curtis, can't get that.  We want community control vs. 
imperialism.  Not Jr. Soaries' slick talk.  Confidence in Curtis?  We 
got nada.  "First it is absolutely necessary that Revolutionaries and 
all Anti-Imperialists, Radicals, and Progressive people UNITE in an 
all peoples' UNITED FRONT AGAINST THE RIGHT WING & its Klan, Nazi, 
Lynch mob underground, as well as the Corporate Running Dog visible 
forces in Government, Politics, Wall Street, Media, Academia, 
Institutions, Organizations!"  Amiri Baraka, Unity&Struggle, April 
2000.

You want it, come get it.  My dogs is with it.

Block on Lock
Revolutionaries Unite!
Win the Advanced to Communism!

June, 2000
Cliff Smith
Joe Smith
Nestor Valdez
Jason Hankins
Samantha Prince--name withdrawn.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1780
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-08 17:16:38
Subject:support laborers' union!
Message:

New Brunswick Supports 
Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over Housing!


We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all labor, 
organized or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic New 
Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union contractor, NOVA 
Development.

After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the elimination 
of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes, with no 
replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime against the 
people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of NBHA, has 
given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union developer, with 
not a single worker from the community!

We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union labor, and for 
community control over housing, in part through an All-Elected, 
Resident Housing Authority!

The people need More Democracy, Not Less!

Union Jobs!
Community Employment!
Affordable Housing!



Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy

Contact Joe Smith
729.0390
can_bush@...








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1781
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-09 00:44:49
Subject:Et tu, Curtis?
Message:

Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes your positions right 
about him & mine wrong.  To the extent that this is so, I was wrong to say 
that you lied about his past.  However, we will certainly continue to 
explore the role that BOL/SWORD played in pushing him back into the 
Republican fold--as we will be struggling to win over many many working 
class people from the Republican party. There was a time not too long ago 
that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's Black Nation together...As we've 
agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against Republican danger, etc. on 
the one hand, but on the other I maintain that dogmatism, not 
Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his democratic tendencies.  & to 
the extent that they still exist, they will obviously run completely counter 
to the objectives of the racist, imperialist, not-about-to-be-reformed 
Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.  (Curtis- I say this to you: 
The less distress your embrace of the Republicans causes you, the more that 
self interest has won over the interests of the people, even Sissy Adams.)

Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was exploiting your resources 
directly following our "unity meeting" that made us more serious about being 
self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move. (CS:..."Though our lay-out 
and distribution resources are readily exploited.") As far as the definitive 
relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I would say talk to AB, try to 
organize another sit down, do what you need to do.  Otherwise, good luck 
with the Union/housing battle.

-Matt



----Original Message Follows----
From: cliffsmith69@...
Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union!
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0000

New Brunswick Supports
Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over Housing!


We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all labor,
organized or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic New
Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union contractor, NOVA
Development.

After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the elimination
of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes, with no
replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime against the
people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of NBHA, has
given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union developer, with
not a single worker from the community!

We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union labor, and for
community control over housing, in part through an All-Elected,
Resident Housing Authority!

The people need More Democracy, Not Less!

Union Jobs!
Community Employment!
Affordable Housing!



Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy

Contact Joe Smith
729.0390
can_bush@...



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1782
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-09 21:07:25
Subject:Re: Demand Community Control Over Redevelopment
Message:

my bad.

rally was mainly organized by republican frank bright who was illegally 
selected for the NB housing authority in violation of federal law that
states residents of public housing must be selected to local housing 
authority boards. at the time bright was selected no resident sat on the 
board, thus making his appointed from trenton illegal.

there are snakes among us - it is a show of the peoples organization against 
the racist vicous right wing republicans that bright could not even sign his 
name and organization to the literature about the rally.

community control over housing!
demand and win an all elected residents controlled housing authority!
bury schundler!
kiss my ass dim!

joe smith

>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>To: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, njfo@egroups.com, 
>RUGreens@yahoogroups.com, amirib@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>CC: barron58@..., NB_CC_TF@yahoogroups.com, orchid731@..., 
>zosha@...
>Subject: [RUGreens] Demand Community Control Over Redevelopment
>Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 14:24:48 -0400
>
>Jobs for NB residents!!
>
>Rally Monday Morning 10:00am
>NB Projects Neilson Street
>
>Rally is being organized by union that is going to war with the NB Housing
>Authority and their "rat contract" with the developers of the projects.
>These developers have been exposed as illegally removing aspestos and for
>not hiring any city residents to work this contract.
>There have been fliers posted throughout the Remsen Ave area of town (at
>least) on cars and in peoples windows by the rally organizers. This is a
>tremendous opportunity to join a working class defensive with regards to
>J&J's Fascist Redevelopment.
>
>contact joe smith for more info
>732.586.5535
>can_bush@...
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1783
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-09 22:15:45
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Demand Community Control Over Redevelopment
Message:


Joe,

Once again you are misinformed.

Best,







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1784
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-09 22:29:41
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Demand Community Control Over Redevelopment
Message:

BUILD A BRIGHTER FUTURE!!!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1785
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-10 01:50:55
Subject:Re: support laborers' union!
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., cliffsmith69@h... wrote:
> New Brunswick Supports 
> Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over Housing!

While I have no objections to many of the sentiments expressed here, 
provided the information is accurate (about non-union labor, I have 
to ask whether it's correct (or morally acceptable) to call the 
gentrification of downtown New Brunswick -- quote -- "J&J's genocidal 
ethnic cleansing of downtown New Brunswick".  

First, obviously, as someone who's read Marx, you must realize that 
you're completely tossing away the concept of social class in 
analyzing the issue.  For example, it's quite painfully obvious that 
problems surrounding the Memorial Homes are a matter of socioeconomic 
class.  If the majority of the people in the projects were white, 
there might have been differences in the conduct of the city, but the 
city's course of action would have been fundamentally the same.  

And as for characterizing it as not just centered on race or 
ethnicity, but "genocidal":  this is a ludicrous relativization of 
the very term "genocide".  Are you really not willing to make a 
conceptual and/or moral distinction between the genocidal imperialism 
of the Spanish in South America in the 16th century, or the Armenian 
genocide of 1912?, and ... the housing policies of a small city in 
New Jersey?  Do you really want the word "genocide" to lose its 
resonance, to become effectively meaningless?  

Yours,

Jeremy
      


> 
> We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all labor, 
> organized or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic New 
> Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union contractor, NOVA 
> Development.
> 
> After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the ?
elimination 
> of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes, with no 
> replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime against the 
> people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of NBHA, has 
> given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union developer, 
with 
> not a single worker from the community!
> 
> We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union labor, and 
for 
> community control over housing, in part through an All-Elected, 
> Resident Housing Authority!
> 
> The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
> 
> Union Jobs!
> Community Employment!
> Affordable Housing!
> 
> 
> 
> Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
> 
> Contact Joe Smith
> 729.0390
> can_bush@h...







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1786
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-10 15:30:31
Subject:Re: Et tu, Curtis?
Message:

Nice try, Matt. You make good points. But after all this you surely
know the SWORD will always draw blood and water.  Paul

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes your positions
right
> about him & mine wrong.  To the extent that this is so, I was wrong
to say
> that you lied about his past.  However, we will certainly continue to
> explore the role that BOL/SWORD played in pushing him back into the
> Republican fold--as we will be struggling to win over many many working
> class people from the Republican party. There was a time not too
long ago
> that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's Black Nation together...As we've
> agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against Republican danger,
etc. on
> the one hand, but on the other I maintain that dogmatism, not
> Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his democratic
tendencies.  & to
> the extent that they still exist, they will obviously run completely
counter
> to the objectives of the racist, imperialist, not-about-to-be-reformed
> Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.  (Curtis- I say this
to you:
> The less distress your embrace of the Republicans causes you, the
more that
> self interest has won over the interests of the people, even Sissy
Adams.)
>
> Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was exploiting your
resources
> directly following our "unity meeting" that made us more serious
about being
> self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move. (CS:..."Though our
lay-out
> and distribution resources are readily exploited.") As far as the
definitive
> relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I would say talk to
AB, try to
> organize another sit down, do what you need to do.  Otherwise, good
luck
> with the Union/housing battle.
>
> -Matt
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: cliffsmith69@h...
> Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@y...
> To: coalitionforjustice@y...
> Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union!
> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0000
>
> New Brunswick Supports
> Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over Housing!
>
>
> We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all labor,
> organized or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic New
> Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union contractor, NOVA
> Development.
>
> After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the elimination
> of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes, with no
> replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime against the
> people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of NBHA, has
> given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union developer, with
> not a single worker from the community!
>
> We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union labor, and for
> community control over housing, in part through an All-Elected,
> Resident Housing Authority!
>
> The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
>
> Union Jobs!
> Community Employment!
> Affordable Housing!
>
>
>
> Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
>
> Contact Joe Smith
> 729.0390
> can_bush@h...
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1787
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-11 11:43:21
Subject:fascist symbols in Edison-SL 7/10
Message:

Below I've retyped a short article from yesterday's Star-Ledger, 7/10/01, 
page 59.

Law & Order:  Edison:

"Vandalism at Pathmark shows signs of racism"

Edison:  Detectives are investigating several vandlism incidents at a Route 
1 supermarket they believe have anti-Semitic and anti-black overtones, 
police Detective Joesph Shannon said yesterday.

Employees at Pathmark in Wick Plaza on Route 1 south told police they 
discovered Ku Klux Klan sticker in a grocery order she was bagging for a 
customer.

Then, last week, a customer told the Pathmark manager that a swastika had 
been drawn in ink on a carton of Hebrew soup mix that was in a store aisle, 
police said.  The police department is treating the incidents as bias 
crimes, and police Lt. Robert Dudash is investigating.  Anyone with 
information about the crimes can call Dudash at (732) 248-7472.


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1788
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-11 18:37:43
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
Message:

what is "unfortunate" about curtis' "confession"?  it is like fresh air.

while yr "exploring", you might "explore" yr own responsibility for curtis' 
republican betrayal.  he comes from yr organization, the CAPB, from which 
you (henson-style) embraced the right & expelled working class activists & 
revolutionaries.  where is the CAPB now?

you might also "explore" how not only did yr NBPC not only "not put out 
warnings of the republican danger", but encouraged curtis to be republican, 
created a "communist" "ideology" to support it, & in fact yrselves embraced 
republican partying.

which of curtis' "democratic tendencies" did we not embrace?  we are happy 
to join w/ anyone as soon as they renounce the republican party. & will even 
make use of many loyal republicans!

recognize that curtis does not proclaim to "reform" the republican party, 
rather to "reform" its "image"--that is to find more liberal marks like 
yrself to con.

"finally", why shd it take my remarks to make you "serious about being 
self-reliant" (which you apparently aren't, judging from the absence of the 
paper)?

"as far as the definitive relationship between U&S & SWORD" we stand ready 
to produce the paper as a collective organizer & struggle through our 
differences.  as you apparently are uninterested in our involvement (& even, 
apparently, in yr own production!), you shd, openly & above board, state yr 
reasons for sectarian sabotage of the paper.

scientific socialists dismiss "luck".

unite, don't split
cliff




>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: amirib@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
>Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 04:44:49
>
>Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes your positions right
>about him & mine wrong.  To the extent that this is so, I was wrong to say
>that you lied about his past.  However, we will certainly continue to
>explore the role that BOL/SWORD played in pushing him back into the
>Republican fold--as we will be struggling to win over many many working
>class people from the Republican party. There was a time not too long ago
>that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's Black Nation together...As we've
>agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against Republican danger, etc. on
>the one hand, but on the other I maintain that dogmatism, not
>Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his democratic tendencies.  & 
>to
>the extent that they still exist, they will obviously run completely 
>counter
>to the objectives of the racist, imperialist, not-about-to-be-reformed
>Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.  (Curtis- I say this to you:
>The less distress your embrace of the Republicans causes you, the more that
>self interest has won over the interests of the people, even Sissy Adams.)
>
>Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was exploiting your resources
>directly following our "unity meeting" that made us more serious about 
>being
>self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move. (CS:..."Though our lay-out
>and distribution resources are readily exploited.") As far as the 
>definitive
>relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I would say talk to AB, try 
>to
>organize another sit down, do what you need to do.  Otherwise, good luck
>with the Union/housing battle.
>
>-Matt
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: cliffsmith69@...
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union!
>Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0000
>
>New Brunswick Supports
>Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over Housing!
>
>
>We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all labor,
>organized or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic New
>Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union contractor, NOVA
>Development.
>
>After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the elimination
>of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes, with no
>replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime against the
>people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of NBHA, has
>given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union developer, with
>not a single worker from the community!
>
>We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union labor, and for
>community control over housing, in part through an All-Elected,
>Resident Housing Authority!
>
>The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
>
>Union Jobs!
>Community Employment!
>Affordable Housing!
>
>
>
>Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
>
>Contact Joe Smith
>729.0390
>can_bush@...
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1789
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-11 18:45:43
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: support laborers' union!
Message:

" If the majority of the people in the projects were white, "

in what world are you living?

"the housing policies of a small city"

these "policies" are federal, national, & international--genocide.

cliff


>From: jagross66@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: support laborers' union!
>Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:50:55 -0000
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., cliffsmith69@h... wrote:
> > New Brunswick Supports
> > Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over Housing!
>
>While I have no objections to many of the sentiments expressed here,
>provided the information is accurate (about non-union labor, I have
>to ask whether it's correct (or morally acceptable) to call the
>gentrification of downtown New Brunswick -- quote -- "J&J's genocidal
>ethnic cleansing of downtown New Brunswick".
>
>First, obviously, as someone who's read Marx, you must realize that
>you're completely tossing away the concept of social class in
>analyzing the issue.  For example, it's quite painfully obvious that
>problems surrounding the Memorial Homes are a matter of socioeconomic
>class.  If the majority of the people in the projects were white,
>there might have been differences in the conduct of the city, but the
>city's course of action would have been fundamentally the same.
>
>And as for characterizing it as not just centered on race or
>ethnicity, but "genocidal":  this is a ludicrous relativization of
>the very term "genocide".  Are you really not willing to make a
>conceptual and/or moral distinction between the genocidal imperialism
>of the Spanish in South America in the 16th century, or the Armenian
>genocide of 1912?, and ... the housing policies of a small city in
>New Jersey?  Do you really want the word "genocide" to lose its
>resonance, to become effectively meaningless?
>
>Yours,
>
>Jeremy
>
>
>
> >
> > We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all labor,
> > organized or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic New
> > Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union contractor, NOVA
> > Development.
> >
> > After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the ?
>elimination
> > of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes, with no
> > replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime against the
> > people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of NBHA, has
> > given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union developer,
>with
> > not a single worker from the community!
> >
> > We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union labor, and
>for
> > community control over housing, in part through an All-Elected,
> > Resident Housing Authority!
> >
> > The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
> >
> > Union Jobs!
> > Community Employment!
> > Affordable Housing!
> >
> >
> >
> > Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
> >
> > Contact Joe Smith
> > 729.0390
> > can_bush@h...
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1790
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-11 18:50:52
Subject:Re: [nbpc] fascist symbols in Edison-SL 7/10
Message:

good work, paul.

didnt understand yr reply to matthew.

cs


>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: redcollective@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] fascist symbols in Edison-SL 7/10
>Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:43:21 -0000
>
>Below I've retyped a short article from yesterday's Star-Ledger, 7/10/01,
>page 59.
>
>Law & Order:  Edison:
>
>"Vandalism at Pathmark shows signs of racism"
>
>Edison:  Detectives are investigating several vandlism incidents at a Route
>1 supermarket they believe have anti-Semitic and anti-black overtones,
>police Detective Joesph Shannon said yesterday.
>
>Employees at Pathmark in Wick Plaza on Route 1 south told police they
>discovered Ku Klux Klan sticker in a grocery order she was bagging for a
>customer.
>
>Then, last week, a customer told the Pathmark manager that a swastika had
>been drawn in ink on a carton of Hebrew soup mix that was in a store aisle,
>police said.  The police department is treating the incidents as bias
>crimes, and police Lt. Robert Dudash is investigating.  Anyone with
>information about the crimes can call Dudash at (732) 248-7472.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1791
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-12 10:21:19
Subject:Re: [nbpc] fascist symbols in Edison-SL 7/10
Message:

In my response to Matthew, I was calling the cycle of behaviors
exhibited on this and other boards pathological.  I'm gonna leave it
at that. Paul

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> wrote:
> good work, paul.
>
> didnt understand yr reply to matthew.
>
> cs
>
>
> >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@h...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: redcollective@y..., nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: [nbpc] fascist symbols in Edison-SL 7/10
> >Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:43:21 -0000
> >
> >Below I've retyped a short article from yesterday's Star-Ledger,
7/10/01,
> >page 59.
> >
> >Law & Order:  Edison:
> >
> >"Vandalism at Pathmark shows signs of racism"
> >
> >Edison:  Detectives are investigating several vandlism incidents at
a Route
> >1 supermarket they believe have anti-Semitic and anti-black overtones,
> >police Detective Joesph Shannon said yesterday.
> >
> >Employees at Pathmark in Wick Plaza on Route 1 south told police they
> >discovered Ku Klux Klan sticker in a grocery order she was bagging
for a
> >customer.
> >
> >Then, last week, a customer told the Pathmark manager that a
swastika had
> >been drawn in ink on a carton of Hebrew soup mix that was in a
store aisle,
> >police said.  The police department is treating the incidents as bias
> >crimes, and police Lt. Robert Dudash is investigating.  Anyone with
> >information about the crimes can call Dudash at (732) 248-7472.
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1795
Sender:vivaohio@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-12 14:38:03
Subject:The Anti-Bush Majority
Message:


This story has been forwarded to you from http://www.alternet.org by vivaohio@....  



-------------------------------------
The Anti-Bush Majority
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=11161

According to a recent poll, a majority of Americans are still angry about the 2000 election. You wouldn't know it from the press, but on the Web that anger is red-hot.
-------------------------------------








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1796
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-12 23:25:28
Subject:BURY schundler
Message:

that is the headline the targum gave the essay (when i e-mailed it to myself 
the title became such) which was written in response to david horowitz's 10 
reasons why reparations for blacks is wrong... you were at rutger's last 
semester weren't you? didn't catch your position, where is it? do you agree 
that your boss should rob you?

i don't see any working class people in the capb, how is it that u do?

you are off the wall to explain your arguements from such basis.

you say:
"Politics must lead production not the other way around."

the differences in our ideologies are on the table, what else needs to be 
done to put forward the newspaper collectively? the concept of u&s is to 
unite revolutionaries, and to win the advanced to communism! not to sit in 
meetings until we all agree with your IDEAS, because we both know your 
practice is out to lunch...

keith, the fact is i have seen you expell and disassociate yourself from 
more revolutionary/working class people than i've seen you organize. if i 
didn't call amiri and set up a meeting, which you and matt had cancelled, i 
don't see reason that there would be any production going on at all.

the reason the same criticism is coming forward about the republicans in the 
peoples' campaign is because the situation has not been rectified. nor have 
you offered anything more than a mere admittance to things impossible to 
deny about your affiliation with such alliances with republicans. what is 
your plan keith to rectify the situation, because as it is dim is on the 
housing authority - that is your bag.

you say:
"I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear ideological 
leadership and bad political line which came to head in the People's 
Campaign with support for bright and suppression of an anti-republican 
political line and a lack of any revolutionary polirtical line."

but what are you going to do?

who is going to lead the vote to announce all republicans must be removed 
and are not welcome in the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign because in fact 
the racist republicans party is the most vicous opposition to the peoples 
productive development?

joe




>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
>Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 11:17:24 -0500
>
>To respond to Cliff's comments
>
> > "what is "unfortunate" about curtis' "confession"?  it is like fresh 
>air."
>
>I agree. Curtis explaining his position brings clarity, I think Matt's 
>meaning is that
>it is unfortunate that Curtis is loyal to the Republicans
>
> > "while yr "exploring", you might "explore" yr own responsibility for 
>curtis'
> > republican betrayal.  he comes from yr organization, the CAPB, from 
>which
> > you (henson-style) embraced the right & expelled working class activists 
>&
> > revolutionaries.  where is the CAPB now?"
>
>I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear ideological 
>leadership
>and bad political line which came to head in the People's Campaign with 
>support for
>bright and suppression of an anti-republican political line and a lack of 
>any
>revolutionary polirtical line.
>
> > "you might also "explore" how not only did yr NBPC not only "not put out
> > warnings of the republican danger", but encouraged curtis to be 
>republican,
> > created a "communist" "ideology" to support it, & in fact yrselves 
>embraced
> > republican partying"
>
>This is true enough although it has already been criticized on numerous 
>occassions
>
> > "recognize that curtis does not proclaim to "reform" the republican 
>party,
> > rather to "reform" its "image"--that is to find more liberal marks like
> > yrself to con."
>
>That is how Curtis stated his case and that certainly seems to be in line 
>with the
>compassionate conservativism strategy of Shundler/Bush and even the most 
>extreme right
>wing section of the Buchanan reform party who even nominated Foster as 
>their VP an
>afro-american woman. (although that shopuld also tell us something about 
>the
>limitations of "woman" based ideology (ie."sisterhood" as well as black 
>nationalism)
>
> > ""finally", why shd it take my remarks to make you "serious about being
> > self-reliant" (which you apparently aren't, judging from the absence of 
>the
> > paper)?"
>
>We don't want to exploit anyone. yr "remarks" made it clear to me that you 
>feel that
>the relationship we had as to production of the paper was "exploitative"
>
> > "as far as the definitive relationship between U&S & SWORD" we stand 
>ready
> > to produce the paper as a collective organizer & struggle through our
> > differences.  as you apparently are uninterested in our involvement (& 
>even,
> > apparently, in yr own production!), you shd, openly & above board, state 
>yr
> > reasons for sectarian sabotage of the paper."
> >
>
>We have numerous ideological differences which in my opinion make joint 
>editorial work
>impossible at the moment. (not to mention differences of style. I have a 
>hard time
>trusting anyone who doesn't believe in friendship for instance and also a 
>hard time
>working with people who do not believe in trust itself.  Those are 
>ultra-ultra left
>lines which really resolve as the essence of right-wing ideology see 
>Mussolini, G.
>Gordon Liddy, the SA in Nazi Germany for examples).  Joint editorial work 
>is
>impossible given our differences as we learned in practice. That is we 
>don't agree on
>fundamental issues (in particular reparations (and as a sub heading the 
>inability to
>be self-critical) and the woman question and  the idea of an organiztaion 
>whose
>ideology is sisterhood is not marxist, it is feminist)  and we wasted mor 
>than one
>entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that continue 
>would have been
>the actual sabatage. We discussed working together on production and in 
>fact the last
>newspaper SWORD printed/photocopied. Since then  you have made it clear 
>that anything
>short of joint work on the edit board constitutes an exploititive 
>relationship. Since
>we are not interetsed in knowingly exoploiting anyone nor are we interested 
>in having
>an edit board of multifarious trends our current relationship or lack of 
>one is on
>you.
>
>As to the continued accusation of sabatage, it is something of a joke. Joe 
>Smith
>official spokesman of the oppressed first raised this accusation in his 
>essay "Let the
>oppressed speak".  His charge is that Matt did not send HIM articles to lay 
>out
>therefore the newspaper is being sabotaged. This is the same muddled super 
>subjective
>logic as the title of his piece suggests. Joe has blown up his own 
>subjectyivty to the
>point that he belives that his subjectivity is  objectivity (see also above 
>"working
>class activists" expelled from Coalition. actually Cliff was expelled and 
>numerous
>working calss activist remained in the organization but Cliff believes that 
>not only
>does he represent the working calss but that he is the working class)
>
>Looking at the political line of SWORD especially around the issue of the 
>paper and
>its production we are actually seeing the ultra-left version of the "office 
>space
>community center club house" line. That is placing production and the 
>productive
>forces above politics. Joe nor Cliff is concerned with the political line 
>of the
>newspaper just "come out with it" "where is it" "hurry up" new and improved
>revolutionary newsaper faster stronger better than before.
>
>Joe wrote an article, that has been endlessly defended, that stated white 
>workers need
>reparations along with afro-americans. I am not interested in putting out 
>that
>political line. Nor am I interested in putting out political lines 
>endorsing
>"sisterhood".  Politics must lead production not the other way around. 
>Production
>before politics is the theory of sponatinety and the essence of economism 
>(see "What
>is To be done")
>
>If SWORD wants to help put out the political line of the U&S editorial 
>board than
>let's go, but if they insist on being a part of the edit board then first 
>we must come
>to ideological resolutions. From what has already been sd SWORD believes 
>that helping
>with production is exploitation. We certainly do not intend to exploit 
>anyones
>resources.
>
> > "scientific socialists dismiss "luck".
>
>Actually, luck is part of that which can not be understood at present or 
>predicted
>with accuracy. For instance wheather at a rally.
>
> > unite, don't split
>
>"....First of all, we are discussing party literature and its subordination 
>to party
>control. Everyone is free to write and say whatever he likes, without 
>restrictions.
>But every voluntary association (including the party) is also free to expel 
>memers who
>use the name of the party to advocate anti-party views. Freedom of speech 
>and of the
>press must be complete. But then freedom of association must be complete 
>too..."
>(Lenin. "Party Organization and Party Literature" Collected Works Volume 10 
>p.47)
>
>Keith
>
>
>
> >
> > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >CC: amirib@...
> > >Subject: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > >Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 04:44:49
> > >
> > >Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes your positions 
>right
> > >about him & mine wrong.  To the extent that this is so, I was wrong to 
>say
> > >that you lied about his past.  However, we will certainly continue to
> > >explore the role that BOL/SWORD played in pushing him back into the
> > >Republican fold--as we will be struggling to win over many many working
> > >class people from the Republican party. There was a time not too long 
>ago
> > >that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's Black Nation together...As we've
> > >agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against Republican danger, etc. 
>on
> > >the one hand, but on the other I maintain that dogmatism, not
> > >Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his democratic tendencies.  
>&
> > >to
> > >the extent that they still exist, they will obviously run completely
> > >counter
> > >to the objectives of the racist, imperialist, not-about-to-be-reformed
> > >Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.  (Curtis- I say this to 
>you:
> > >The less distress your embrace of the Republicans causes you, the more 
>that
> > >self interest has won over the interests of the people, even Sissy 
>Adams.)
> > >
> > >Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was exploiting your 
>resources
> > >directly following our "unity meeting" that made us more serious about
> > >being
> > >self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move. (CS:..."Though our 
>lay-out
> > >and distribution resources are readily exploited.") As far as the
> > >definitive
> > >relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I would say talk to AB, 
>try
> > >to
> > >organize another sit down, do what you need to do.  Otherwise, good 
>luck
> > >with the Union/housing battle.
> > >
> > >-Matt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----Original Message Follows----
> > >From: cliffsmith69@...
> > >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union!
> > >Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0000
> > >
> > >New Brunswick Supports
> > >Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over Housing!
> > >
> > >
> > >We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all labor,
> > >organized or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic New
> > >Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union contractor, NOVA
> > >Development.
> > >
> > >After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the elimination
> > >of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes, with no
> > >replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime against the
> > >people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of NBHA, has
> > >given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union developer, with
> > >not a single worker from the community!
> > >
> > >We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union labor, and for
> > >community control over housing, in part through an All-Elected,
> > >Resident Housing Authority!
> > >
> > >The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
> > >
> > >Union Jobs!
> > >Community Employment!
> > >Affordable Housing!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
> > >
> > >Contact Joe Smith
> > >729.0390
> > >can_bush@...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1797
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-12 23:32:35
Subject:SHANK schundler
Message:

the sabotage has been for over five years! keith has been the head of it 
(from the edit board) as well others apart of it matthew, flavier, mark, 
tracy, kristina, tom, stacy, bill, aaron...

yes yes yes

yes yes yes

yes yes yes

yes yes yes

yes yes yes

yes yes yes

>From: Julie Poulos <juliepoulos@...>
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [njfo] Re: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
>Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:40:49 -0700 (PDT)
>
>!!!!!!!!!
>
>--- Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...> wrote:
>
> >and we wasted
> > mor than one
> > entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that
> > continue would have been
> > the actual sabatage
> >
> > Keith
>
> >and we wasted
> > mor than one
> > entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that
> > continue would have been
> > the actual sabatage
> >
> > Keith
>
> >and we wasted
> > mor than one
> > entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that
> > continue would have been
> > the actual sabatage
> >
> > Keith
>
> >and we wasted
> > mor than one
> > entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that
> > continue would have been
> > the actual sabatage
> >
> > Keith
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1800
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-13 19:03:53
Subject:Re: [nbpc] SHANK schundler
Message:

what is unsubstantiated?

the only allegations i see are you connecting me to cointelpro.

why don't you put that in your paper and see how far your distribution goes 
outside your front door?

comprende?




>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] SHANK schundler
>Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 19:08:58 -0500
>
>Joe,
>You are making strong allegations.  You should at least try to substantiate 
>them.
>Otherwise you are manure for cointelpro.
>
>joseph smith wrote:
>
> > the sabotage has been for over five years! keith has been the head of it
> > (from the edit board) as well others apart of it matthew, flavier, mark,
> > tracy, kristina, tom, stacy, bill, aaron...
> >
> > yes yes yes
> >
> > yes yes yes
> >
> > yes yes yes
> >
> > yes yes yes
> >
> > yes yes yes
> >
> > yes yes yes
> >
> > >From: Julie Poulos <juliepoulos@...>
> > >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [njfo] Re: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > >Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:40:49 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > >--- Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > >and we wasted
> > > > mor than one
> > > > entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that
> > > > continue would have been
> > > > the actual sabatage
> > > >
> > > > Keith
> > >
> > > >and we wasted
> > > > mor than one
> > > > entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that
> > > > continue would have been
> > > > the actual sabatage
> > > >
> > > > Keith
> > >
> > > >and we wasted
> > > > mor than one
> > > > entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that
> > > > continue would have been
> > > > the actual sabatage
> > > >
> > > > Keith
> > >
> > > >and we wasted
> > > > mor than one
> > > > entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that
> > > > continue would have been
> > > > the actual sabatage
> > > >
> > > > Keith
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1801
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-13 19:05:33
Subject:Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
Message:

Reperations for the multi-national working class!!

break that down


>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
>Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 19:00:16 -0500
>
>Joe,
>you wrote:
>
> > "that is the headline the targum gave the essay (when i e-mailed it to 
>myself
> > the title became such) which was written in response to david horowitz's 
>10
> > reasons why reparations for blacks is wrong... you were at rutger's last
> > semester weren't you? didn't catch your position, where is it? do you 
>agree
> > that your boss should rob you?"
>
>I'm not sure exactly what your saying, but as to my boss robbing me or any 
>boss
>robbing anyone,  that it is not the issue of reparations. You are confusing 
>two
>distinct things. Reparations for afro-americacans are repeartions for 
>chattel slavery.
>Reparations is one of the ways to create equality among the multi-national 
>working
>calss so that unity is easier to achieve. If white workers throughout the 
>U&S got
>repartions along with afro-american workers then the relationship would not 
>change.You
>are making the demand for reparations a demand for socialism.
>
> > "i don't see any working class people in the capb, how is it that u do?"
>
>When the coalition existed it was primarily a working class organization. 
>If you are
>gloating about its demise I don't know what to tell you.
>
> > "you are off the wall to explain your arguements from such basis."
>
>I don't know what that sentence is refering to.
>
> > you say:
> > "Politics must lead production not the other way around."
>
>That's my line, I don't think that you answered it.
>
> > the differences in our ideologies are on the table, what else needs to 
>be
> > done to put forward the newspaper collectively? the concept of u&s is to
> > unite revolutionaries, and to win the advanced to communism! not to sit 
>in
> > meetings until we all agree with your IDEAS, because we both know your
> > practice is out to lunch...
>
>I raised the question of putting froward the paper collectively very 
>specificly in the
>piece to whihc you responded.
>the issue is:
>1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit board is 
>one trend.
>2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your brother.
>
>As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working relationship 
>that you
>feel is non-exploitative.
>
>I don't think that we both know my "practice is out to lunch". If this were 
>the case
>than why would you be so eager to unite with it?
>
> > keith, the fact is i have seen you expell and disassociate yourself from
> > more revolutionary/working class people than i've seen you organize. if 
>i
> > didn't call amiri and set up a meeting, which you and matt had 
>cancelled, i
> > don't see reason that there would be any production going on at all.
>
>Actaully I don't think that you know much about my practice.
>
>  We re-scheduled the meeting because Baraka was not going to be in town on 
>the
>original date and you came to that meeting
>.
>I especially like the super subjective grandiose vision of yrself.  " i 
>don't see
>reason that there would be any production going on at all."  Are you also 
>actaully the
>emobiement of Reason that travels throughout history on whose behalf all 
>people are
>acting?
>
> > the reason the same criticism is coming forward about the republicans in 
>the
> > peoples' campaign is because the situation has not been rectified. nor 
>have
> > you offered anything more than a mere admittance to things impossible to
> > deny about your affiliation with such alliances with republicans. what 
>is
> > your plan keith to rectify the situation, because as it is dim is on the
> > housing authority - that is your bag.
>
>You can make the criticism untill the cows come home. Your proposal for 
>rectification
>is to expel the republicans and re-admit you.
>I already sd that I agree republicans should be expelled from the 
>organization and
>that SWORD should be united with in the People's Campaign.But I think that 
>it is more
>important that the majority of people involved with the camapign understand 
>what is
>happening and what mistakes were made, otherwise they will just be repeated 
>(maybe
>with an ultra-left cover).
>
>
>
> > you say:
> > "I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear 
>ideological
> > leadership and bad political line which came to head in the People's
> > Campaign with support for bright and suppression of an anti-republican
> > political line and a lack of any revolutionary polirtical line."
>
> > but what are you going to do?
>
>I think that you are just repeating yrself here, but again maybe I'm 
>blinded by
>ignorance if so please cast the light. Otherwise see my reply above.
>
> > who is going to lead the vote to announce all republicans must be 
>removed
> > and are not welcome in the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign because in 
>fact
> > the racist republicans party is the most vicous opposition to the 
>peoples
> > productive development?
>
>I think that this is the same again.
>But I do have a question. What is "the peoples productive development"?
>
>I tried to answer the isues you raise, but since this reply is a little 
>lengthy, I
>would reiterate this point as being central:
>
>1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit board is a 
>single
>trend.
>2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your brother.
>
>As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working relationship 
>that you
>feel is non-exploitative. First, editorial unity is not possible until 
>there is a
>change in political line.Secondly,  if the current relationship is termed
>"exploitative" then it must change. There's the problem. I have made more 
>than one
>proposal for its solution. As far as I am concerned its on you.
>
>Keith
>
> >
> > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 11:17:24 -0500
> > >
> > >To respond to Cliff's comments
> > >
> > > > "what is "unfortunate" about curtis' "confession"?  it is like fresh
> > >air."
> > >
> > >I agree. Curtis explaining his position brings clarity, I think Matt's
> > >meaning is that
> > >it is unfortunate that Curtis is loyal to the Republicans
> > >
> > > > "while yr "exploring", you might "explore" yr own responsibility for
> > >curtis'
> > > > republican betrayal.  he comes from yr organization, the CAPB, from
> > >which
> > > > you (henson-style) embraced the right & expelled working class 
>activists
> > >&
> > > > revolutionaries.  where is the CAPB now?"
> > >
> > >I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear 
>ideological
> > >leadership
> > >and bad political line which came to head in the People's Campaign with
> > >support for
> > >bright and suppression of an anti-republican political line and a lack 
>of
> > >any
> > >revolutionary polirtical line.
> > >
> > > > "you might also "explore" how not only did yr NBPC not only "not put 
>out
> > > > warnings of the republican danger", but encouraged curtis to be
> > >republican,
> > > > created a "communist" "ideology" to support it, & in fact yrselves
> > >embraced
> > > > republican partying"
> > >
> > >This is true enough although it has already been criticized on numerous
> > >occassions
> > >
> > > > "recognize that curtis does not proclaim to "reform" the republican
> > >party,
> > > > rather to "reform" its "image"--that is to find more liberal marks 
>like
> > > > yrself to con."
> > >
> > >That is how Curtis stated his case and that certainly seems to be in 
>line
> > >with the
> > >compassionate conservativism strategy of Shundler/Bush and even the 
>most
> > >extreme right
> > >wing section of the Buchanan reform party who even nominated Foster as
> > >their VP an
> > >afro-american woman. (although that shopuld also tell us something 
>about
> > >the
> > >limitations of "woman" based ideology (ie."sisterhood" as well as black
> > >nationalism)
> > >
> > > > ""finally", why shd it take my remarks to make you "serious about 
>being
> > > > self-reliant" (which you apparently aren't, judging from the absence 
>of
> > >the
> > > > paper)?"
> > >
> > >We don't want to exploit anyone. yr "remarks" made it clear to me that 
>you
> > >feel that
> > >the relationship we had as to production of the paper was 
>"exploitative"
> > >
> > > > "as far as the definitive relationship between U&S & SWORD" we stand
> > >ready
> > > > to produce the paper as a collective organizer & struggle through 
>our
> > > > differences.  as you apparently are uninterested in our involvement 
>(&
> > >even,
> > > > apparently, in yr own production!), you shd, openly & above board, 
>state
> > >yr
> > > > reasons for sectarian sabotage of the paper."
> > > >
> > >
> > >We have numerous ideological differences which in my opinion make joint
> > >editorial work
> > >impossible at the moment. (not to mention differences of style. I have 
>a
> > >hard time
> > >trusting anyone who doesn't believe in friendship for instance and also 
>a
> > >hard time
> > >working with people who do not believe in trust itself.  Those are
> > >ultra-ultra left
> > >lines which really resolve as the essence of right-wing ideology see
> > >Mussolini, G.
> > >Gordon Liddy, the SA in Nazi Germany for examples).  Joint editorial 
>work
> > >is
> > >impossible given our differences as we learned in practice. That is we
> > >don't agree on
> > >fundamental issues (in particular reparations (and as a sub heading the
> > >inability to
> > >be self-critical) and the woman question and  the idea of an 
>organiztaion
> > >whose
> > >ideology is sisterhood is not marxist, it is feminist)  and we wasted 
>mor
> > >than one
> > >entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that continue
> > >would have been
> > >the actual sabatage. We discussed working together on production and in
> > >fact the last
> > >newspaper SWORD printed/photocopied. Since then  you have made it clear
> > >that anything
> > >short of joint work on the edit board constitutes an exploititive
> > >relationship. Since
> > >we are not interetsed in knowingly exoploiting anyone nor are we 
>interested
> > >in having
> > >an edit board of multifarious trends our current relationship or lack 
>of
> > >one is on
> > >you.
> > >
> > >As to the continued accusation of sabatage, it is something of a joke. 
>Joe
> > >Smith
> > >official spokesman of the oppressed first raised this accusation in his
> > >essay "Let the
> > >oppressed speak".  His charge is that Matt did not send HIM articles to 
>lay
> > >out
> > >therefore the newspaper is being sabotaged. This is the same muddled 
>super
> > >subjective
> > >logic as the title of his piece suggests. Joe has blown up his own
> > >subjectyivty to the
> > >point that he belives that his subjectivity is  objectivity (see also 
>above
> > >"working
> > >class activists" expelled from Coalition. actually Cliff was expelled 
>and
> > >numerous
> > >working calss activist remained in the organization but Cliff believes 
>that
> > >not only
> > >does he represent the working calss but that he is the working class)
> > >
> > >Looking at the political line of SWORD especially around the issue of 
>the
> > >paper and
> > >its production we are actually seeing the ultra-left version of the 
>"office
> > >space
> > >community center club house" line. That is placing production and the
> > >productive
> > >forces above politics. Joe nor Cliff is concerned with the political 
>line
> > >of the
> > >newspaper just "come out with it" "where is it" "hurry up" new and 
>improved
> > >revolutionary newsaper faster stronger better than before.
> > >
> > >Joe wrote an article, that has been endlessly defended, that stated 
>white
> > >workers need
> > >reparations along with afro-americans. I am not interested in putting 
>out
> > >that
> > >political line. Nor am I interested in putting out political lines
> > >endorsing
> > >"sisterhood".  Politics must lead production not the other way around.
> > >Production
> > >before politics is the theory of sponatinety and the essence of 
>economism
> > >(see "What
> > >is To be done")
> > >
> > >If SWORD wants to help put out the political line of the U&S editorial
> > >board than
> > >let's go, but if they insist on being a part of the edit board then 
>first
> > >we must come
> > >to ideological resolutions. From what has already been sd SWORD 
>believes
> > >that helping
> > >with production is exploitation. We certainly do not intend to exploit
> > >anyones
> > >resources.
> > >
> > > > "scientific socialists dismiss "luck".
> > >
> > >Actually, luck is part of that which can not be understood at present 
>or
> > >predicted
> > >with accuracy. For instance wheather at a rally.
> > >
> > > > unite, don't split
> > >
> > >"....First of all, we are discussing party literature and its 
>subordination
> > >to party
> > >control. Everyone is free to write and say whatever he likes, without
> > >restrictions.
> > >But every voluntary association (including the party) is also free to 
>expel
> > >memers who
> > >use the name of the party to advocate anti-party views. Freedom of 
>speech
> > >and of the
> > >press must be complete. But then freedom of association must be 
>complete
> > >too..."
> > >(Lenin. "Party Organization and Party Literature" Collected Works 
>Volume 10
> > >p.47)
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >CC: amirib@...
> > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > > > >Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 04:44:49
> > > > >
> > > > >Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes your positions
> > >right
> > > > >about him & mine wrong.  To the extent that this is so, I was wrong 
>to
> > >say
> > > > >that you lied about his past.  However, we will certainly continue 
>to
> > > > >explore the role that BOL/SWORD played in pushing him back into the
> > > > >Republican fold--as we will be struggling to win over many many 
>working
> > > > >class people from the Republican party. There was a time not too 
>long
> > >ago
> > > > >that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's Black Nation together...As 
>we've
> > > > >agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against Republican danger, 
>etc.
> > >on
> > > > >the one hand, but on the other I maintain that dogmatism, not
> > > > >Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his democratic 
>tendencies.
> > >&
> > > > >to
> > > > >the extent that they still exist, they will obviously run 
>completely
> > > > >counter
> > > > >to the objectives of the racist, imperialist, 
>not-about-to-be-reformed
> > > > >Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.  (Curtis- I say this 
>to
> > >you:
> > > > >The less distress your embrace of the Republicans causes you, the 
>more
> > >that
> > > > >self interest has won over the interests of the people, even Sissy
> > >Adams.)
> > > > >
> > > > >Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was exploiting your
> > >resources
> > > > >directly following our "unity meeting" that made us more serious 
>about
> > > > >being
> > > > >self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move. (CS:..."Though our
> > >lay-out
> > > > >and distribution resources are readily exploited.") As far as the
> > > > >definitive
> > > > >relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I would say talk to 
>AB,
> > >try
> > > > >to
> > > > >organize another sit down, do what you need to do.  Otherwise, good
> > >luck
> > > > >with the Union/housing battle.
> > > > >
> > > > >-Matt
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >----Original Message Follows----
> > > > >From: cliffsmith69@...
> > > > >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union!
> > > > >Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >New Brunswick Supports
> > > > >Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over Housing!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all labor,
> > > > >organized or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic New
> > > > >Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union contractor, NOVA
> > > > >Development.
> > > > >
> > > > >After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the 
>elimination
> > > > >of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes, with no
> > > > >replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime against the
> > > > >people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of NBHA, has
> > > > >given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union developer, 
>with
> > > > >not a single worker from the community!
> > > > >
> > > > >We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union labor, and 
>for
> > > > >community control over housing, in part through an All-Elected,
> > > > >Resident Housing Authority!
> > > > >
> > > > >The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
> > > > >
> > > > >Union Jobs!
> > > > >Community Employment!
> > > > >Affordable Housing!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
> > > > >
> > > > >Contact Joe Smith
> > > > >729.0390
> > > > >can_bush@...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > > >
> > > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1802
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-13 23:12:55
Subject:Fwd: Vieques en foro de contaminación militar--Vieques at military contamination forum
Message:

Spread the word- This is the difinitive source for up-to-date info on the 
struggle to liberate Vieques...to subscribe to the list, I believe you can 
send a message to:  viequeslibre-subscribe@...   Otherwise, check 
out their website below.  -Matthew






----Original Message Follows----
From: "Vieques Libre" <viequeslibre@...>
To: List Member <vivaohio@...>
Subject: Vieques en foro de contaminaci�n militar--Vieques at military 
contamination forum
Date: 14 Jul 2001 01:59:18 -0000

Vieques Libre - http://www.viequeslibre.org

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[SCROLL DOWN FOR ENGLISH]


COMIT� PRO RESCATE Y DESARROLLO DE VIEQUES
(Committee for the Rescue and Development of Vieques)
Apartado 1424 Vieques, Puerto 00765
Tel. (787) 741-0716 E mail: bieke@...


12 de julio de 2001 -- COMMUNICADO DE PRENSA


Vieques tema en foro nacional (EU) sobre contaminaci�n militar

Dos miembros del Comit� Pro Rescate y Desarrollo de Vieques (CPRDV)
participar�n en un foro sobre la descontaminaci�n de facilidades federales
del Instituto de Estudios Cient�ficos e Interdisciplinarios (ISIS) de la
Universidad de Amherst en Massachusetts, del 13 al 15 de este mes. Robert
Rabin y Nilda Medina presentar�n el caso de Vieques en el foro coordinado
por el Proyecto de Descontaminaci�n Militar de ISIS que contar� con la
participaci�n de comunidades afectadas por la contaminaci�n militar en
varios lugares de los Estados Unidos.

Oficiales estatales y federales, cient�ficos independientes, comunidades
cercanas a bases militares u otras facilidades federales contaminantes,
dialogar�n sobre la participaci�n ciudadana en los procesos de limpieza
ambiental de las facilidades del Departamento de Energ�a (Federal) y del
Departamento de la Defensa. El taller se organiza para examinar el papel
de los ciudadanos, los profesionales, expertos t�cnicos, representantes
del gobierno, las agencias reguladoras del ambiente y las universidades en
el proceso de la descontaminaci�n. ISIS utilizar� la informaci�n del
taller para crear una Red Nacional de Expertos T�cnicos para proveer
servicios t�cnicos a las comunidades en el proceso de la descontaminaci�n.

"Queremos compartir la situaci�n de Vieques con otras comunidades
afectadas por la contaminaci�n militar para poder ayudarnos mutuamente en
el largo proceso de limpieza. La Marina de Guerra de EU en Vieques ha
causado un desastre ecol�gico en la zona de bombardeo y en otros lugares
contaminados por m�s de medio siglo de actividad militar," se�al� Nilda
Medina. Durante la conferencia, la luchadora contra la presencia militar
en Vieques hablar� sobre la desobediencia civil como estrategia para
terminar con las pr�cticas destructoras de la Marina. Por su parte, Rab�n
mencion� que aprovechar�n la presencia de activistas de todas partes de
los Estados Unidos para ampliar la red de apoyo para la lucha viequense.

Entre los invitados especiales al foro es el Senador Dem�crata de
Massachusetts, Edward Kennedy, t�o del Lcdo. Robert Kennedy Jr.,
encarcelado actualmente por su participaci�n en la desobediencia civil en
Vieques. Otros oficiales pol�ticos de Massachusetts y de las agencias
federales ambientales estar�n presentes durante la actividad de tres d�as.

(FAVOR DE ESCRIBIRLES A NUESTROS PRISONEROS POR LA PAZ DE VIEQUES.
NOMBRES, N�MEROS Y DIRECCION POSTAL DISPONIBLE EN: viequeslibre.org)



==============================================
ENGLISH VERSION

COMIT� PRO RESCATE Y DESARROLLO DE VIEQUES
(Committee for the Rescue and Development of Vieques)
Apartado 1424 Vieques, Puerto 00765
Tel. (787) 741-0716 E mail: bieke@...


12 July, 2001 -- Press Release

Vieques topic at national (US) forum on military contamination

Two members of the Committee for the Rescue and Development of Vieques
(CRDV) will participate in a major workshop on cleanup of federal sites,
hosted by the Military Waste Cleanup Project of the Institute for Science
and Interdisciplinary Studies (ISIS) from the 13th to the 15th of this
month. Robert Rabin and Nilda Medina will present the case of Vieques at
the forum that will include the participation of communities affected by
military contamination throughout the US.

State and federal officials, independent scientists, citizen�s groups from
communities close to military bases and other contaminating federal
facilities, will dialogue about community participation in the clean up
process related to Department of Energy and Department of Defense
operations. The workshop will examine the role of citizens, professionals,
technical experts, government representatives, regulatory agencies and
university professors in the process of environmental clean up.

"We want to share the situation of Vieques with other communities affected
by military contamination to be able to help each other in the long
project of clean up. The US Navy has created an ecological disaster in the
bombing zone and other areas contaminated through more than half a century
of military activity," said Nilda Medina. During the conference, the
activist against the military presence in Vieques will speak on the civil
disobedience as a strategy to end the Navy�s destructive practices. Rabin,
for his part, said he will take advantage of the presence at the workshop
of activists from all over the US, to build up the netwook of support
groups for the Vieques cause.

Among the special participants at the forum will be Democratic senator
from Massachusetts, Edward Kennedy, whose nephew, Robert Kennedy, Jr., is
currently jailed for his participation in civil disobedience actions on
Vieques. Other Massachusetts elected officials and representatives form
federal environmental agencies will be present at the three day activity.

(PLEASE WRITE TO OUR PRISONERS FOR PEACE ON VIEQUES. NAMES, NUMBERS AND
ADRESS AVAILABLE AT: viequeslibre.org)


______________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, write to viequeslibre-unsubscribe@...


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1803
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-14 13:50:57
Subject:Re: [nbpc] fascist symbols in Edison-SL 7/10
Message:

?


>From: shorepaulie@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] fascist symbols in Edison-SL 7/10
>Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:21:19 -0000
>
>In my response to Matthew, I was calling the cycle of behaviors
>exhibited on this and other boards pathological.  I'm gonna leave it
>at that. Paul
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> wrote:
> > good work, paul.
> >
> > didnt understand yr reply to matthew.
> >
> > cs
> >
> >
> > >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@h...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: redcollective@y..., nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: [nbpc] fascist symbols in Edison-SL 7/10
> > >Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:43:21 -0000
> > >
> > >Below I've retyped a short article from yesterday's Star-Ledger,
>7/10/01,
> > >page 59.
> > >
> > >Law & Order:  Edison:
> > >
> > >"Vandalism at Pathmark shows signs of racism"
> > >
> > >Edison:  Detectives are investigating several vandlism incidents at
>a Route
> > >1 supermarket they believe have anti-Semitic and anti-black overtones,
> > >police Detective Joesph Shannon said yesterday.
> > >
> > >Employees at Pathmark in Wick Plaza on Route 1 south told police they
> > >discovered Ku Klux Klan sticker in a grocery order she was bagging
>for a
> > >customer.
> > >
> > >Then, last week, a customer told the Pathmark manager that a
>swastika had
> > >been drawn in ink on a carton of Hebrew soup mix that was in a
>store aisle,
> > >police said.  The police department is treating the incidents as bias
> > >crimes, and police Lt. Robert Dudash is investigating.  Anyone with
> > >information about the crimes can call Dudash at (732) 248-7472.
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1804
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-14 14:58:41
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
Message:

there are apparently several points of disagreement. & i think some points 
of agreement.  the question is how to move forward toward resolution through 
disagreements. this is the function a newspaper shd  play in uniting 
revolutionary circles toward a national organization of revolutionaries.

for instance, we have maintained consistent debate, discussion, &tc., on 
these message boards, i think productively, overall.  but these boards, & 
the dialogue are out of reach of the community.

these same exchanges, arguments, alliances... shd be in a form accessible to 
the people--thru a newspaper.  these disagreements shd be brought to the 
people, which is where they will be finally resolved.

we claim agreement to unite revolutionaries! win the advanced to communism! 
end imperialism, &tc.  if we disagree over "reparations", or "woman 
question", we shd summarize our views and publish them, also summarize our 
criticisms and suggestions toward resolution, as we promote also what we 
agree on.  we are not afraid of open debate.  we are not afraid of different 
ideas of what is revolutionary, & let the best one win.  unless U&S wants to 
say that we are not revolutionary, & then we can take that to the street.  
but you cant say its on us as we are not afraid to work with you, rather...

yr "politics not production" angle is disingenuous, if not dishonest.
what is political theory if not put to practice? what is an editorial staff 
with no paper?  the question is not vacant production for its own sake, as 
you imply, but production of peoples' organization, the 
application/realization of revolutionary "politics".  otherwise there is no 
"politics", except in the mind of self-appointed, lazy "leaders".

re: "reparations", i have asked a couple of times for a specific definition 
from U&S.  what exactly do you mean by the term?  how do you define it to 
apply exclusively to question of national oppression, to the "reform" of 
chattel slavery?  possibly i do not understand the word as you do...  to me 
"reparations" is a general term to connote "amendment for wrongdoing" & has 
broad application, which is not to deny that some "application" to "amend" 
certain "wrongdoing" is primary against others in the anti-imperialist 
struggle, e.g. "reparation" to the black nation.  but how is the term 
defined to apply to only one social relation?

re: "woman question", how does U&S consider classifying women as a "gender", 
not a "sex", to be marxist, or even bourgeois biology?
where is U&S' "marxist" program for women? as you are quick to knock 
"sisterhood & struggle", which promotes revolutionary democracy, 
anti-imperialism, and marxism.  apparently you oppose women's organization 
as such, tho you (occasionally) claim that women are oppressed.  how do you 
explain this?

how does the existence of sold-out women eliminate the fact of women's 
sexual oppression?  does the existence of clarence thomas mean there is no 
black national oppression?  do you dismiss "black nia force" as 
"anti-marxist" petty "limitations"?

but these arguments have significance & shd be sorted out, openly, before & 
among the masses.  "freedom of association", that's yr prerogative.  but the 
point is to organize. to neglect any productive contribution is to oppose 
organization, which is to sabotage.  my boss is better able to organize 
workers who "disagree" with, "distrust" and "dislike" each other than the 
self-appointed "revolutionary" "leadership"  who claim "unity".

"clarity of ideas, unity among comrades" --mao
cliff



>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
>Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 11:17:24 -0500
>
>To respond to Cliff's comments
>
> > "what is "unfortunate" about curtis' "confession"?  it is like fresh 
>air."
>
>I agree. Curtis explaining his position brings clarity, I think Matt's 
>meaning is that
>it is unfortunate that Curtis is loyal to the Republicans
>
> > "while yr "exploring", you might "explore" yr own responsibility for 
>curtis'
> > republican betrayal.  he comes from yr organization, the CAPB, from 
>which
> > you (henson-style) embraced the right & expelled working class activists 
>&
> > revolutionaries.  where is the CAPB now?"
>
>I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear ideological 
>leadership
>and bad political line which came to head in the People's Campaign with 
>support for
>bright and suppression of an anti-republican political line and a lack of 
>any
>revolutionary polirtical line.
>
> > "you might also "explore" how not only did yr NBPC not only "not put out
> > warnings of the republican danger", but encouraged curtis to be 
>republican,
> > created a "communist" "ideology" to support it, & in fact yrselves 
>embraced
> > republican partying"
>
>This is true enough although it has already been criticized on numerous 
>occassions
>
> > "recognize that curtis does not proclaim to "reform" the republican 
>party,
> > rather to "reform" its "image"--that is to find more liberal marks like
> > yrself to con."
>
>That is how Curtis stated his case and that certainly seems to be in line 
>with the
>compassionate conservativism strategy of Shundler/Bush and even the most 
>extreme right
>wing section of the Buchanan reform party who even nominated Foster as 
>their VP an
>afro-american woman. (although that shopuld also tell us something about 
>the
>limitations of "woman" based ideology (ie."sisterhood" as well as black 
>nationalism)
>
> > ""finally", why shd it take my remarks to make you "serious about being
> > self-reliant" (which you apparently aren't, judging from the absence of 
>the
> > paper)?"
>
>We don't want to exploit anyone. yr "remarks" made it clear to me that you 
>feel that
>the relationship we had as to production of the paper was "exploitative"
>
> > "as far as the definitive relationship between U&S & SWORD" we stand 
>ready
> > to produce the paper as a collective organizer & struggle through our
> > differences.  as you apparently are uninterested in our involvement (& 
>even,
> > apparently, in yr own production!), you shd, openly & above board, state 
>yr
> > reasons for sectarian sabotage of the paper."
> >
>
>We have numerous ideological differences which in my opinion make joint 
>editorial work
>impossible at the moment. (not to mention differences of style. I have a 
>hard time
>trusting anyone who doesn't believe in friendship for instance and also a 
>hard time
>working with people who do not believe in trust itself.  Those are 
>ultra-ultra left
>lines which really resolve as the essence of right-wing ideology see 
>Mussolini, G.
>Gordon Liddy, the SA in Nazi Germany for examples).  Joint editorial work 
>is
>impossible given our differences as we learned in practice. That is we 
>don't agree on
>fundamental issues (in particular reparations (and as a sub heading the 
>inability to
>be self-critical) and the woman question and  the idea of an organiztaion 
>whose
>ideology is sisterhood is not marxist, it is feminist)  and we wasted mor 
>than one
>entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that continue 
>would have been
>the actual sabatage. We discussed working together on production and in 
>fact the last
>newspaper SWORD printed/photocopied. Since then  you have made it clear 
>that anything
>short of joint work on the edit board constitutes an exploititive 
>relationship. Since
>we are not interetsed in knowingly exoploiting anyone nor are we interested 
>in having
>an edit board of multifarious trends our current relationship or lack of 
>one is on
>you.
>
>As to the continued accusation of sabatage, it is something of a joke. Joe 
>Smith
>official spokesman of the oppressed first raised this accusation in his 
>essay "Let the
>oppressed speak".  His charge is that Matt did not send HIM articles to lay 
>out
>therefore the newspaper is being sabotaged. This is the same muddled super 
>subjective
>logic as the title of his piece suggests. Joe has blown up his own 
>subjectyivty to the
>point that he belives that his subjectivity is  objectivity (see also above 
>"working
>class activists" expelled from Coalition. actually Cliff was expelled and 
>numerous
>working calss activist remained in the organization but Cliff believes that 
>not only
>does he represent the working calss but that he is the working class)
>
>Looking at the political line of SWORD especially around the issue of the 
>paper and
>its production we are actually seeing the ultra-left version of the "office 
>space
>community center club house" line. That is placing production and the 
>productive
>forces above politics. Joe nor Cliff is concerned with the political line 
>of the
>newspaper just "come out with it" "where is it" "hurry up" new and improved
>revolutionary newsaper faster stronger better than before.
>
>Joe wrote an article, that has been endlessly defended, that stated white 
>workers need
>reparations along with afro-americans. I am not interested in putting out 
>that
>political line. Nor am I interested in putting out political lines 
>endorsing
>"sisterhood".  Politics must lead production not the other way around. 
>Production
>before politics is the theory of sponatinety and the essence of economism 
>(see "What
>is To be done")
>
>If SWORD wants to help put out the political line of the U&S editorial 
>board than
>let's go, but if they insist on being a part of the edit board then first 
>we must come
>to ideological resolutions. From what has already been sd SWORD believes 
>that helping
>with production is exploitation. We certainly do not intend to exploit 
>anyones
>resources.
>
> > "scientific socialists dismiss "luck".
>
>Actually, luck is part of that which can not be understood at present or 
>predicted
>with accuracy. For instance wheather at a rally.
>
> > unite, don't split
>
>"....First of all, we are discussing party literature and its subordination 
>to party
>control. Everyone is free to write and say whatever he likes, without 
>restrictions.
>But every voluntary association (including the party) is also free to expel 
>memers who
>use the name of the party to advocate anti-party views. Freedom of speech 
>and of the
>press must be complete. But then freedom of association must be complete 
>too..."
>(Lenin. "Party Organization and Party Literature" Collected Works Volume 10 
>p.47)
>
>Keith
>
>
>
> >
> > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >CC: amirib@...
> > >Subject: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > >Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 04:44:49
> > >
> > >Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes your positions 
>right
> > >about him & mine wrong.  To the extent that this is so, I was wrong to 
>say
> > >that you lied about his past.  However, we will certainly continue to
> > >explore the role that BOL/SWORD played in pushing him back into the
> > >Republican fold--as we will be struggling to win over many many working
> > >class people from the Republican party. There was a time not too long 
>ago
> > >that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's Black Nation together...As we've
> > >agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against Republican danger, etc. 
>on
> > >the one hand, but on the other I maintain that dogmatism, not
> > >Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his democratic tendencies.  
>&
> > >to
> > >the extent that they still exist, they will obviously run completely
> > >counter
> > >to the objectives of the racist, imperialist, not-about-to-be-reformed
> > >Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.  (Curtis- I say this to 
>you:
> > >The less distress your embrace of the Republicans causes you, the more 
>that
> > >self interest has won over the interests of the people, even Sissy 
>Adams.)
> > >
> > >Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was exploiting your 
>resources
> > >directly following our "unity meeting" that made us more serious about
> > >being
> > >self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move. (CS:..."Though our 
>lay-out
> > >and distribution resources are readily exploited.") As far as the
> > >definitive
> > >relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I would say talk to AB, 
>try
> > >to
> > >organize another sit down, do what you need to do.  Otherwise, good 
>luck
> > >with the Union/housing battle.
> > >
> > >-Matt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----Original Message Follows----
> > >From: cliffsmith69@...
> > >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union!
> > >Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0000
> > >
> > >New Brunswick Supports
> > >Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over Housing!
> > >
> > >
> > >We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all labor,
> > >organized or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic New
> > >Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union contractor, NOVA
> > >Development.
> > >
> > >After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the elimination
> > >of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes, with no
> > >replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime against the
> > >people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of NBHA, has
> > >given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union developer, with
> > >not a single worker from the community!
> > >
> > >We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union labor, and for
> > >community control over housing, in part through an All-Elected,
> > >Resident Housing Authority!
> > >
> > >The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
> > >
> > >Union Jobs!
> > >Community Employment!
> > >Affordable Housing!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
> > >
> > >Contact Joe Smith
> > >729.0390
> > >can_bush@...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
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Post ID:1805
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-14 15:31:33
Subject:Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
Message:

explain, please:

why is "reparations" exclusively specific to chattel slavery & national 
oppression? tho these are no doubt primary over narrow class struggle.

if the multinational working class got class reparations, as oppressed 
nations get national reparations, and women, sexual reparations, in their 
differing forms & according to priority of oppression (sex, nation, class), 
how wd this impede multinational unity?

the demand for reparations for class exploitation/oppression is not a demand 
for seizure of power, dictatorship of proletariat, & socialism.  it is 
application of "amendment for wrongdoing", read "reparations", to unequal 
class relations.  it reinforces, not liquidates, other claims for 
reparations by generalizing/popularizing the term in social consciousness.

true, "ideological unity" is required to produce a revolutionary newspaper.  
but also not as absolute inflexible demand. else no 2 people cd ever work 
together.  there is also need to work cooperatively through certain 
disagreements, toward resolution.

standards, or criterion, of principles of unity shd be made specific, as 
seemingly was in "revolutionaries unite! win the advanced to communism!", to 
which what is the actual dis-unity?.  blanket demand of   100% complete 
"ideological unity" before 1 step of practical unity is a strategy to 
disorganize, not organize.

cliff

>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
>Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 19:00:16 -0500
>
>Joe,
>you wrote:
>
> > "that is the headline the targum gave the essay (when i e-mailed it to 
>myself
> > the title became such) which was written in response to david horowitz's 
>10
> > reasons why reparations for blacks is wrong... you were at rutger's last
> > semester weren't you? didn't catch your position, where is it? do you 
>agree
> > that your boss should rob you?"
>
>I'm not sure exactly what your saying, but as to my boss robbing me or any 
>boss
>robbing anyone,  that it is not the issue of reparations. You are confusing 
>two
>distinct things. Reparations for afro-americacans are repeartions for 
>chattel slavery.
>Reparations is one of the ways to create equality among the multi-national 
>working
>calss so that unity is easier to achieve. If white workers throughout the 
>U&S got
>repartions along with afro-american workers then the relationship would not 
>change.You
>are making the demand for reparations a demand for socialism.
>
> > "i don't see any working class people in the capb, how is it that u do?"
>
>When the coalition existed it was primarily a working class organization. 
>If you are
>gloating about its demise I don't know what to tell you.
>
> > "you are off the wall to explain your arguements from such basis."
>
>I don't know what that sentence is refering to.
>
> > you say:
> > "Politics must lead production not the other way around."
>
>That's my line, I don't think that you answered it.
>
> > the differences in our ideologies are on the table, what else needs to 
>be
> > done to put forward the newspaper collectively? the concept of u&s is to
> > unite revolutionaries, and to win the advanced to communism! not to sit 
>in
> > meetings until we all agree with your IDEAS, because we both know your
> > practice is out to lunch...
>
>I raised the question of putting froward the paper collectively very 
>specificly in the
>piece to whihc you responded.
>the issue is:
>1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit board is 
>one trend.
>2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your brother.
>
>As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working relationship 
>that you
>feel is non-exploitative.
>
>I don't think that we both know my "practice is out to lunch". If this were 
>the case
>than why would you be so eager to unite with it?
>
> > keith, the fact is i have seen you expell and disassociate yourself from
> > more revolutionary/working class people than i've seen you organize. if 
>i
> > didn't call amiri and set up a meeting, which you and matt had 
>cancelled, i
> > don't see reason that there would be any production going on at all.
>
>Actaully I don't think that you know much about my practice.
>
>  We re-scheduled the meeting because Baraka was not going to be in town on 
>the
>original date and you came to that meeting
>.
>I especially like the super subjective grandiose vision of yrself.  " i 
>don't see
>reason that there would be any production going on at all."  Are you also 
>actaully the
>emobiement of Reason that travels throughout history on whose behalf all 
>people are
>acting?
>
> > the reason the same criticism is coming forward about the republicans in 
>the
> > peoples' campaign is because the situation has not been rectified. nor 
>have
> > you offered anything more than a mere admittance to things impossible to
> > deny about your affiliation with such alliances with republicans. what 
>is
> > your plan keith to rectify the situation, because as it is dim is on the
> > housing authority - that is your bag.
>
>You can make the criticism untill the cows come home. Your proposal for 
>rectification
>is to expel the republicans and re-admit you.
>I already sd that I agree republicans should be expelled from the 
>organization and
>that SWORD should be united with in the People's Campaign.But I think that 
>it is more
>important that the majority of people involved with the camapign understand 
>what is
>happening and what mistakes were made, otherwise they will just be repeated 
>(maybe
>with an ultra-left cover).
>
>
>
> > you say:
> > "I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear 
>ideological
> > leadership and bad political line which came to head in the People's
> > Campaign with support for bright and suppression of an anti-republican
> > political line and a lack of any revolutionary polirtical line."
>
> > but what are you going to do?
>
>I think that you are just repeating yrself here, but again maybe I'm 
>blinded by
>ignorance if so please cast the light. Otherwise see my reply above.
>
> > who is going to lead the vote to announce all republicans must be 
>removed
> > and are not welcome in the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign because in 
>fact
> > the racist republicans party is the most vicous opposition to the 
>peoples
> > productive development?
>
>I think that this is the same again.
>But I do have a question. What is "the peoples productive development"?
>
>I tried to answer the isues you raise, but since this reply is a little 
>lengthy, I
>would reiterate this point as being central:
>
>1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit board is a 
>single
>trend.
>2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your brother.
>
>As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working relationship 
>that you
>feel is non-exploitative. First, editorial unity is not possible until 
>there is a
>change in political line.Secondly,  if the current relationship is termed
>"exploitative" then it must change. There's the problem. I have made more 
>than one
>proposal for its solution. As far as I am concerned its on you.
>
>Keith
>
> >
> > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 11:17:24 -0500
> > >
> > >To respond to Cliff's comments
> > >
> > > > "what is "unfortunate" about curtis' "confession"?  it is like fresh
> > >air."
> > >
> > >I agree. Curtis explaining his position brings clarity, I think Matt's
> > >meaning is that
> > >it is unfortunate that Curtis is loyal to the Republicans
> > >
> > > > "while yr "exploring", you might "explore" yr own responsibility for
> > >curtis'
> > > > republican betrayal.  he comes from yr organization, the CAPB, from
> > >which
> > > > you (henson-style) embraced the right & expelled working class 
>activists
> > >&
> > > > revolutionaries.  where is the CAPB now?"
> > >
> > >I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear 
>ideological
> > >leadership
> > >and bad political line which came to head in the People's Campaign with
> > >support for
> > >bright and suppression of an anti-republican political line and a lack 
>of
> > >any
> > >revolutionary polirtical line.
> > >
> > > > "you might also "explore" how not only did yr NBPC not only "not put 
>out
> > > > warnings of the republican danger", but encouraged curtis to be
> > >republican,
> > > > created a "communist" "ideology" to support it, & in fact yrselves
> > >embraced
> > > > republican partying"
> > >
> > >This is true enough although it has already been criticized on numerous
> > >occassions
> > >
> > > > "recognize that curtis does not proclaim to "reform" the republican
> > >party,
> > > > rather to "reform" its "image"--that is to find more liberal marks 
>like
> > > > yrself to con."
> > >
> > >That is how Curtis stated his case and that certainly seems to be in 
>line
> > >with the
> > >compassionate conservativism strategy of Shundler/Bush and even the 
>most
> > >extreme right
> > >wing section of the Buchanan reform party who even nominated Foster as
> > >their VP an
> > >afro-american woman. (although that shopuld also tell us something 
>about
> > >the
> > >limitations of "woman" based ideology (ie."sisterhood" as well as black
> > >nationalism)
> > >
> > > > ""finally", why shd it take my remarks to make you "serious about 
>being
> > > > self-reliant" (which you apparently aren't, judging from the absence 
>of
> > >the
> > > > paper)?"
> > >
> > >We don't want to exploit anyone. yr "remarks" made it clear to me that 
>you
> > >feel that
> > >the relationship we had as to production of the paper was 
>"exploitative"
> > >
> > > > "as far as the definitive relationship between U&S & SWORD" we stand
> > >ready
> > > > to produce the paper as a collective organizer & struggle through 
>our
> > > > differences.  as you apparently are uninterested in our involvement 
>(&
> > >even,
> > > > apparently, in yr own production!), you shd, openly & above board, 
>state
> > >yr
> > > > reasons for sectarian sabotage of the paper."
> > > >
> > >
> > >We have numerous ideological differences which in my opinion make joint
> > >editorial work
> > >impossible at the moment. (not to mention differences of style. I have 
>a
> > >hard time
> > >trusting anyone who doesn't believe in friendship for instance and also 
>a
> > >hard time
> > >working with people who do not believe in trust itself.  Those are
> > >ultra-ultra left
> > >lines which really resolve as the essence of right-wing ideology see
> > >Mussolini, G.
> > >Gordon Liddy, the SA in Nazi Germany for examples).  Joint editorial 
>work
> > >is
> > >impossible given our differences as we learned in practice. That is we
> > >don't agree on
> > >fundamental issues (in particular reparations (and as a sub heading the
> > >inability to
> > >be self-critical) and the woman question and  the idea of an 
>organiztaion
> > >whose
> > >ideology is sisterhood is not marxist, it is feminist)  and we wasted 
>mor
> > >than one
> > >entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that continue
> > >would have been
> > >the actual sabatage. We discussed working together on production and in
> > >fact the last
> > >newspaper SWORD printed/photocopied. Since then  you have made it clear
> > >that anything
> > >short of joint work on the edit board constitutes an exploititive
> > >relationship. Since
> > >we are not interetsed in knowingly exoploiting anyone nor are we 
>interested
> > >in having
> > >an edit board of multifarious trends our current relationship or lack 
>of
> > >one is on
> > >you.
> > >
> > >As to the continued accusation of sabatage, it is something of a joke. 
>Joe
> > >Smith
> > >official spokesman of the oppressed first raised this accusation in his
> > >essay "Let the
> > >oppressed speak".  His charge is that Matt did not send HIM articles to 
>lay
> > >out
> > >therefore the newspaper is being sabotaged. This is the same muddled 
>super
> > >subjective
> > >logic as the title of his piece suggests. Joe has blown up his own
> > >subjectyivty to the
> > >point that he belives that his subjectivity is  objectivity (see also 
>above
> > >"working
> > >class activists" expelled from Coalition. actually Cliff was expelled 
>and
> > >numerous
> > >working calss activist remained in the organization but Cliff believes 
>that
> > >not only
> > >does he represent the working calss but that he is the working class)
> > >
> > >Looking at the political line of SWORD especially around the issue of 
>the
> > >paper and
> > >its production we are actually seeing the ultra-left version of the 
>"office
> > >space
> > >community center club house" line. That is placing production and the
> > >productive
> > >forces above politics. Joe nor Cliff is concerned with the political 
>line
> > >of the
> > >newspaper just "come out with it" "where is it" "hurry up" new and 
>improved
> > >revolutionary newsaper faster stronger better than before.
> > >
> > >Joe wrote an article, that has been endlessly defended, that stated 
>white
> > >workers need
> > >reparations along with afro-americans. I am not interested in putting 
>out
> > >that
> > >political line. Nor am I interested in putting out political lines
> > >endorsing
> > >"sisterhood".  Politics must lead production not the other way around.
> > >Production
> > >before politics is the theory of sponatinety and the essence of 
>economism
> > >(see "What
> > >is To be done")
> > >
> > >If SWORD wants to help put out the political line of the U&S editorial
> > >board than
> > >let's go, but if they insist on being a part of the edit board then 
>first
> > >we must come
> > >to ideological resolutions. From what has already been sd SWORD 
>believes
> > >that helping
> > >with production is exploitation. We certainly do not intend to exploit
> > >anyones
> > >resources.
> > >
> > > > "scientific socialists dismiss "luck".
> > >
> > >Actually, luck is part of that which can not be understood at present 
>or
> > >predicted
> > >with accuracy. For instance wheather at a rally.
> > >
> > > > unite, don't split
> > >
> > >"....First of all, we are discussing party literature and its 
>subordination
> > >to party
> > >control. Everyone is free to write and say whatever he likes, without
> > >restrictions.
> > >But every voluntary association (including the party) is also free to 
>expel
> > >memers who
> > >use the name of the party to advocate anti-party views. Freedom of 
>speech
> > >and of the
> > >press must be complete. But then freedom of association must be 
>complete
> > >too..."
> > >(Lenin. "Party Organization and Party Literature" Collected Works 
>Volume 10
> > >p.47)
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >CC: amirib@...
> > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > > > >Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 04:44:49
> > > > >
> > > > >Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes your positions
> > >right
> > > > >about him & mine wrong.  To the extent that this is so, I was wrong 
>to
> > >say
> > > > >that you lied about his past.  However, we will certainly continue 
>to
> > > > >explore the role that BOL/SWORD played in pushing him back into the
> > > > >Republican fold--as we will be struggling to win over many many 
>working
> > > > >class people from the Republican party. There was a time not too 
>long
> > >ago
> > > > >that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's Black Nation together...As 
>we've
> > > > >agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against Republican danger, 
>etc.
> > >on
> > > > >the one hand, but on the other I maintain that dogmatism, not
> > > > >Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his democratic 
>tendencies.
> > >&
> > > > >to
> > > > >the extent that they still exist, they will obviously run 
>completely
> > > > >counter
> > > > >to the objectives of the racist, imperialist, 
>not-about-to-be-reformed
> > > > >Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.  (Curtis- I say this 
>to
> > >you:
> > > > >The less distress your embrace of the Republicans causes you, the 
>more
> > >that
> > > > >self interest has won over the interests of the people, even Sissy
> > >Adams.)
> > > > >
> > > > >Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was exploiting your
> > >resources
> > > > >directly following our "unity meeting" that made us more serious 
>about
> > > > >being
> > > > >self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move. (CS:..."Though our
> > >lay-out
> > > > >and distribution resources are readily exploited.") As far as the
> > > > >definitive
> > > > >relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I would say talk to 
>AB,
> > >try
> > > > >to
> > > > >organize another sit down, do what you need to do.  Otherwise, good
> > >luck
> > > > >with the Union/housing battle.
> > > > >
> > > > >-Matt
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >----Original Message Follows----
> > > > >From: cliffsmith69@...
> > > > >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union!
> > > > >Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >New Brunswick Supports
> > > > >Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over Housing!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all labor,
> > > > >organized or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic New
> > > > >Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union contractor, NOVA
> > > > >Development.
> > > > >
> > > > >After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the 
>elimination
> > > > >of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes, with no
> > > > >replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime against the
> > > > >people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of NBHA, has
> > > > >given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union developer, 
>with
> > > > >not a single worker from the community!
> > > > >
> > > > >We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union labor, and 
>for
> > > > >community control over housing, in part through an All-Elected,
> > > > >Resident Housing Authority!
> > > > >
> > > > >The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
> > > > >
> > > > >Union Jobs!
> > > > >Community Employment!
> > > > >Affordable Housing!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
> > > > >
> > > > >Contact Joe Smith
> > > > >729.0390
> > > > >can_bush@...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >_________________________________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1806
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-15 12:50:54
Subject:Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
Message:

keith said:
"When the coalition existed it was primarily a working class organization. 
If you are gloating about its demise I don't know what to tell you."


i put forward that the coalition  fell apart because of its attack on 
working class activists. and because of the fact that it was mainly led by 
REPUBLICAN, "i'm gunna change the image of kahill's killer kops", Kurtis. 
the coalition really boiled down to nothing outside of the Keeper of the 
tree and the Kards he put on the table.

what Keith do you put forward as to why the coalition has no working class 
organization 1. and 2 why "revolutionaries" would allow a REPUBLICAN to 
become the leading force behind a community defense organization against 
police brutality and murder?

also when and where is the next peoples' campaing meeting?
and what steps are being taken to ensure that the same "revolutionaries" 
don't let the REPUBLICANS take/continue dominance?

joe
SHANK SCHUNDLER!
PEOPLES' WAR ON THE RIGHT!!-which means schundler's local REPUBLICAN base, 
right keith?!

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1811
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-15 15:12:18
Subject:Re: support laborers' union!
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> 
wrote:
> " If the majority of the people in the projects were white, "
> 
> in what world are you living?

I was pointing out the fact that 'race' and class are not the same 
exact thing.  Very obviously.  Housing projects, on their face, are a 
matter of class.  

My point above both was and wasn't intended literally.  It is 
literally true that there are places where the majority of the very 
poorest residents are 'white'.  Dublin, for example, or parts of East
(ern) Germany.  But it wasn't literal to the extent that I was making 
a point -- that 'race' is a component of, but not a necessary 
component of, the problem of gentrification and political power.      

> "the housing policies of a small city"
> 
> these "policies" are federal, national, & international--genocide.
> 
> cliff
 
If something is _as bad_ but _different from_ genocide, ought it to 
be called genocide?  I have already argued that it ought not to be.  
I dare you to provide an argument to the contrary.  

Again, my problem here isn't so much moral as political and 
analytical (it is also a kind of moral issue, though).  No political 
struggle can be effective if it seeks to combat an ill-defined or 
nonexistent 'enemy'.  The old story of the Left in the 1930's calling 
the Nazis the "open dictatorship of monopoly capitalism" is a good 
example -- they very obviously were not, in retrospect.  (Appropriate 
to my example, you are basically making the opposite mistake:  
calling an openly capitalistic regime selfconsciously genocidal ...  
whereas the 3rd International called an openly genocidal regime 
selfconsciously capitalistic).    


Jeremy












-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1812
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-16 04:29:02
Subject:Re: Et tu, Curtis?
Message:

Some observations ...

 
> Ras made the point at the meeting on June 20th that the reality of 
yr call for
> reparations for women is reparations for men   as well at least to 
the extent that
> they are married or co-habitat as in a family. That is if Lou were 
to get reperations
> I would benifit as well. for instance.

If the family is in some sense the basic 'economic unit' of society, 
then this is fairly obvious.  In fact, someone who claims to be a 
Marxist should know this right off the bat.  

As for the idea of 'reparations for women' -- I'd argue against this 
if I could even figure out what it's supposed to mean.  It doesn't 
make sense as a practical goal.  But neither does it make sense as a 
utopian ideal "capable of informing praxis".  

> I think that yr insistence on the term "sex" as oppossed 
to "gender" is
> meta-physical.(the general accusation against U&S is based on one 
article. And just to
> remind at least those who remember of the pre-judice against U&S on 
this question it
> was believed that the sentence on gender oppression in 
Revolutionaries Unite.. was
> added after its intial publication, though that was not true)  The 
opression of women
> takes both forms. Sex oppression having to do with reproduction 
while it may be the
> basis of gender oppression does not reduce to it.

I would tend to think you're fundamentally in the right here.  (I 
don't see how the opposite is even remotely arguable).  

If you're a Marxist, the problem is _relations of production_.  
Gender is relational, and thefore the real political and economic (in 
a variety of senses) issue.

Of course, the term "oppression" is also misleading.  Oppression 
refers to open, selfconscious force by the state, typically.  Force 
and Power are two different concepts.  If you don't accept this, 
modern political problems become unintelligible.  (In fact, if you 
don't accept this, you're not a Marxist.  The concept of _ideology_ 
depends upon the force/power distinction).  

> I am not against sisterhood and struggle. I don't believe that it 
is marxism-leninsm,
> I think that it is feminism. I'm not against NOW either.
> But what is SWORD's position.

I don't know about Lenin's Marxism in this sense, but Marxism, if 
worthy of the name, is feminist.  If nothing else this is because, as 
I said above, the Marxist conception of the family as an economic 
unit.  (A conception ultimately inherited from Aristotle)  

In Reason as in Faith,

 Humbly Yours,

   J










-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1813
Sender:"Audrey Allred" <audreya99@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-16 20:02:59
Subject:Fwd: Re: EMERGENCY SITUATION (fwd)
Message:




---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:35:38 EDT
From: VCaffee@...
To: Raritan1@...
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY SITUATION

Dear Friends,

There's a situation going on in New Brunswick you might be able to help 
with:
  The old housing projects in the Rt. 18/Nielsen St. area are being
demolished.  Right now asbestos abatement is taking place using non-union,
lower paid workers who don't seem to be doing the job the way it should be
done.  The NB Housing Authority contracted with a Philly-based firm called
Community Builders to do the overall job.    A sub-contractor is doing the
asbestos removal, and another sub-contractor is doing the building
demolishtion, which will take the form of a wrecking ball knocking down one
building soon and implosion of the other three taking place on Aug. 3rd.  
The
asbestos sub-contractor, in order to be eligible for the minority contract
set-aside under affirmative action guidelines, put the company in his wife's
name.  It's our understanding that no people of color from NB are working on
the project.

The Laborers union has been outside the work site daily to help raise
awareness about what's going on, while Beverly Marshall, president of the
Commercial Ave. Tenants Assoc. & a member of WEC's Hazards Watch Committee,
has been working with the union on this situation because there are health
and safety issues  involved for both the community and workers.  Ted & I 
have
recently taken a more active role in this struggle as well.

There's an NB City Council meeting this Wed. at 4 p.m.  (note that most city
councils meet in the evening).  We're trying to get people to attend to ask
some pertinent questions, such as what kinds of safeguards are being used
with the asbestos removal to make sure that it's done properly and the
workers and community residents won't be exposed to asbestos; is there lead
in the old paint, etc. in those buildings and how is it going to be removed
to avoid endangering the health of community residents/workers; what's the
source of water that's supposed to be used for asbestos removal and how is 
it
being disposed so as not to contaminate the watershed, etc.; how are old
refridgeration units being disposed of and the freon they contain; what kind
of community notification plan is in place to notify the residents about the
wrecking and implosions of the buildings, and when will every effort be made
to notify residents; what kinds of measures will be put in place to ensure
the health and safety of area residents and integrity of the water supply
when the implosions take place; what kinds of follow-up will be done to
guarantee that the site is safe after the buildings are demolished.   (The
old projects are located across the street from the Raritan River.)  Labor
people can also ask why only non-union companies are being used on this
project.

It  would be great if you could attend.  Please also spread the word about
this meeting and ask others to attend.  Call Ted Carrington at 732-545-1617
if you or someone you know can attend.

I apologize for this late notice, but we just found out about it ourselves.

Many thanks.

Valorie



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1814
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-18 09:39:04
Subject:Re: [nbpc] U&S production- lack there of...
Message:

what do you have to do with the platform of community control?

joe



>From: citruswar@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] U&S production- lack there of...
>Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:16:52 EDT
>
>I fell sorry for you Joe!  I will not feed into any of your trivial and
>delusive behavior.  The internet is not supposed to be used to make
>slanderous and vicious remarks about each other and I will not continue to
>take anything that you say seriously until your do either
>
>1)  Act and conduct yourself like a man
>2)  Treat myself and the rest of the People's Campaign with respect
>3)  Discontinue using vile and ignorant remarks while sending e-mails
>
>Until then,  talk to yourself, because no one else is listening!
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1815
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-18 13:06:56
Subject:Re: Et tu, WARON Curtis?
Message:

>
>Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes your positions right 
>about him & mine wrong.

matt-
1. can you explain what is unfortunate?
2. can you explain exactly what your position and your interpretation of my 
position on curtis are and why mine is right and your's is wrong.

>
>To the extent that this is so, I was wrong to say that you lied about his 
>past.

which means that you have been subserviant to a republican for years, and 
now comes the question of why? for the benefit of the doubt, you had thought 
that you had won over a working class resident to the struggle against 
police brutality. though through your lack of organizing a community base, 
or even pushing to organize a community base, you were satisfied with 
maintaining curtis as your example of practice - although over 1000 people 
marched when sissy was murdered, you were satisfied with curtis. satisfied 
so much so that you were expelling working class revolutionaries from the 
coalition. when do you plan on addressing any of this?

>
>However, we will certainly continue to explore the role that BOL/SWORD 
>played in pushing him back into the Republican fold--as we will be 
>struggling to win over many many working class people from the Republican 
>party.

now here's where you might as well just hold your nose and jump off a 
fucking roof. please, by all means, keep me posted on your exploration of 
the only group that attacked curtis's republican position, as well as all 
republicans and all republican positions to come from within the peoples' 
campaign, and let me know what you turn up. you have never struggled to win 
over the working class from the Republican party, not even with your parents 
and definitely not in new brunswick where you and keith and louise organized 
a sabatoge of U&S while recruiting to put bright into the position of NB 
republican chair. interesting how you state that:

"BOL/SWORD played in pushing him back into the Republican fold"

what is that to say? that he was coming away from the Republican party? you 
have a certain fucked up warped head to accuse SWORD of pushing him back. 
you would never even know that he is a Racist Republican if not for SWORD. 
not only, but that you joined with bush2 and organized in bush2's 
organization more sucessfully than any other republicans ever in NB - HOW 
DOES THAT WORK TO "BE STRUGGLING TO WIN OVER MANY MANY WORKING CLASS PEOPLE 
FROM THE REPUBLICAN PARTY? this you definitely need adress.

>
>There was a time not too long ago that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's 
>Black Nation together...

yes, probably you need to reread such pieces and get on the streets with 
your ideas.

>
>As we've agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against Republican danger, 
>etc. on the one hand, but on the other I maintain that dogmatism, not 
>Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his democratic tendencies.

1. these agreements are only in words on behalf of yourself and keith and 
louise, you all still belong to an organization called the peoples' campaign 
that consists of Republicans - you have done nothing to rectify the 
situation, not one thing. and i have yet to see/hear any proposals from your 
behalf suggesting rectification of this situation.
2. "didn't put out warnings about Republican danger", what is it that you 
did?
3. "but on the other I maintain that dogmatism, not Marxism-Leninism, caused 
BOL not to embrace his democratic tendencies."  what are you talking about?

>
>& to the extent that they still exist, they will obviously run completely 
>counter to the objectives of the racist, imperialist, 
>not-about-to-be-reformed Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.

i have not seen anything from curtis to substantiate anything you are 
saying, can you provide some detailed analysis. remember el senior is the 
protege of secretary of state, skunk soaries, who when shaun potts was 
murdered was on the scene talking about black power and qouting malcolm x 
while organizing protests throughout the community.

>
>(Curtis- I say this to you: The less distress your embrace of the 
>Republicans causes you, the more that self interest has won over the 
>interests of the people, even Sissy Adams.)

matt, you better say more than that and try to make sense out of it next 
time. here, you can bower some phrases from me: curtis- I say this to you: 
you are a snake that has done nothing to serve the people. your objectives 
of attempting to "change the image of the Republican party" can serve no 
other that the scum of the earth. you bend your knees for your house and you 
compromise the platform of community control to promote a hidden republican 
agenda. waron curtis is what your name now is and as much as you promote any 
republican positions is as much as the wars on.
the thing is matt, if you don't act in a serious manner to rectify this 
situation, then you have played yourself. a thorough open and above board 
self-criticism for your entire relationship with waron curtis is due.

>
>Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was exploiting your resources 
>directly following our "unity meeting" that made us more serious about 
>being self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move. (CS:..."Though our 
>lay-out and distribution resources are readily exploited.")

that is not how you stated the end of the meeting to myself. you told me 
that you were to get me the articles asap. why are you shy when the honest 
analysis comes on the table? what else are you doing but exploiting SWORD's 
resources with the distribution of the paper? i am all for exploiting U&S in 
order to build circles of revolutionaries and to win the advanced to 
communism. of the over 2000 issues that SWORD printed, how many has 
yourself, keith, and lousie distributed each?
and why is it that you still continually invite maura for layout and not 
cliff who has explained that he can help?
you should always be serious about being self-reliant, i am glad that we 
taught you that - but that doesn't mean that U&S should not allow for 
SWORD's analysis and abilities to be united with.

>
>As far as the definitive relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I 
>would say talk to AB, try to organize another sit down, do what you need to 
>do.

what exactly does a sit down with amiri accomplish? over every major issue 
you have organized and accepted amiri's position to his face and then gone 
behind his back and sabatoged the position. ie. the last 2 presidential 
races and the way you sabatoged U&S's position being put forward.

>
>Otherwise, good luck with the Union/housing battle.

certainly a fitting way to end your post... don't you think the housing 
battle would be much more of a progressive community effort if a resident 
from public housing sat in the seat the you put dim into?

>
>-Matt

joe

>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: cliffsmith69@...
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union!
>Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0000
>
>New Brunswick Supports
>Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over Housing!
>
>
>We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all labor,
>organized or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic New
>Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union contractor, NOVA
>Development.
>
>After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the elimination
>of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes, with no
>replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime against the
>people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of NBHA, has
>given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union developer, with
>not a single worker from the community!
>
>We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union labor, and for
>community control over housing, in part through an All-Elected,
>Resident Housing Authority!
>
>The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
>
>Union Jobs!
>Community Employment!
>Affordable Housing!
>
>
>
>Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
>
>Contact Joe Smith
>729.0390
>can_bush@...
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
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>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1818
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-18 16:46:28
Subject:Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
Message:

prove this:

"liquidates the demand and operates under the unstated assumption that 
equality has already been achieved among the multi-natuional
>working class- "

"It makes no distinction between the minimum and maximum program but 
actually collapses the two."

(hint--you cant cause its false.)
reparations for oppressed nations &all oppressed peoples.
cliff

whens the next peoples campaign meeting?

>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
>Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 21:39:59 -0500
>
>Joe,
>yr slogan "Reperations for the multi-national working class!!" is 
>trotskyism.
>U&S put forward and has been struggling for reperations for slavery for the
>afro-american nation. Your slogan liquidates the demand and operates under 
>the
>unstated assumption that equality has already been achieved among the 
>multi-natuional
>working class- that's trotskyism. The slogan is militant reformism. It 
>makes no
>distinction between the minimum and maximum program but actually collapses 
>the two.
>Maybe yr rrrrrrevolutionary practice should include studying 
>marxism-leninism.
>
>Keith
>
>
>
> > Reperations for the multi-national working class!!
> >
> > break that down
> >
> > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
> > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 19:00:16 -0500
> > >
> > >Joe,
> > >you wrote:
> > >
> > > > "that is the headline the targum gave the essay (when i e-mailed it 
>to
> > >myself
> > > > the title became such) which was written in response to david 
>horowitz's
> > >10
> > > > reasons why reparations for blacks is wrong... you were at rutger's 
>last
> > > > semester weren't you? didn't catch your position, where is it? do 
>you
> > >agree
> > > > that your boss should rob you?"
> > >
> > >I'm not sure exactly what your saying, but as to my boss robbing me or 
>any
> > >boss
> > >robbing anyone,  that it is not the issue of reparations. You are 
>confusing
> > >two
> > >distinct things. Reparations for afro-americacans are repeartions for
> > >chattel slavery.
> > >Reparations is one of the ways to create equality among the 
>multi-national
> > >working
> > >calss so that unity is easier to achieve. If white workers throughout 
>the
> > >U&S got
> > >repartions along with afro-american workers then the relationship would 
>not
> > >change.You
> > >are making the demand for reparations a demand for socialism.
> > >
> > > > "i don't see any working class people in the capb, how is it that u 
>do?"
> > >
> > >When the coalition existed it was primarily a working class 
>organization.
> > >If you are
> > >gloating about its demise I don't know what to tell you.
> > >
> > > > "you are off the wall to explain your arguements from such basis."
> > >
> > >I don't know what that sentence is refering to.
> > >
> > > > you say:
> > > > "Politics must lead production not the other way around."
> > >
> > >That's my line, I don't think that you answered it.
> > >
> > > > the differences in our ideologies are on the table, what else needs 
>to
> > >be
> > > > done to put forward the newspaper collectively? the concept of u&s 
>is to
> > > > unite revolutionaries, and to win the advanced to communism! not to 
>sit
> > >in
> > > > meetings until we all agree with your IDEAS, because we both know 
>your
> > > > practice is out to lunch...
> > >
> > >I raised the question of putting froward the paper collectively very
> > >specificly in the
> > >piece to whihc you responded.
> > >the issue is:
> > >1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit board 
>is
> > >one trend.
> > >2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your brother.
> > >
> > >As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working 
>relationship
> > >that you
> > >feel is non-exploitative.
> > >
> > >I don't think that we both know my "practice is out to lunch". If this 
>were
> > >the case
> > >than why would you be so eager to unite with it?
> > >
> > > > keith, the fact is i have seen you expell and disassociate yourself 
>from
> > > > more revolutionary/working class people than i've seen you organize. 
>if
> > >i
> > > > didn't call amiri and set up a meeting, which you and matt had
> > >cancelled, i
> > > > don't see reason that there would be any production going on at all.
> > >
> > >Actaully I don't think that you know much about my practice.
> > >
> > >  We re-scheduled the meeting because Baraka was not going to be in 
>town on
> > >the
> > >original date and you came to that meeting
> > >.
> > >I especially like the super subjective grandiose vision of yrself.  " i
> > >don't see
> > >reason that there would be any production going on at all."  Are you 
>also
> > >actaully the
> > >emobiement of Reason that travels throughout history on whose behalf 
>all
> > >people are
> > >acting?
> > >
> > > > the reason the same criticism is coming forward about the 
>republicans in
> > >the
> > > > peoples' campaign is because the situation has not been rectified. 
>nor
> > >have
> > > > you offered anything more than a mere admittance to things 
>impossible to
> > > > deny about your affiliation with such alliances with republicans. 
>what
> > >is
> > > > your plan keith to rectify the situation, because as it is dim is on 
>the
> > > > housing authority - that is your bag.
> > >
> > >You can make the criticism untill the cows come home. Your proposal for
> > >rectification
> > >is to expel the republicans and re-admit you.
> > >I already sd that I agree republicans should be expelled from the
> > >organization and
> > >that SWORD should be united with in the People's Campaign.But I think 
>that
> > >it is more
> > >important that the majority of people involved with the camapign 
>understand
> > >what is
> > >happening and what mistakes were made, otherwise they will just be 
>repeated
> > >(maybe
> > >with an ultra-left cover).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > you say:
> > > > "I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear
> > >ideological
> > > > leadership and bad political line which came to head in the People's
> > > > Campaign with support for bright and suppression of an 
>anti-republican
> > > > political line and a lack of any revolutionary polirtical line."
> > >
> > > > but what are you going to do?
> > >
> > >I think that you are just repeating yrself here, but again maybe I'm
> > >blinded by
> > >ignorance if so please cast the light. Otherwise see my reply above.
> > >
> > > > who is going to lead the vote to announce all republicans must be
> > >removed
> > > > and are not welcome in the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign because 
>in
> > >fact
> > > > the racist republicans party is the most vicous opposition to the
> > >peoples
> > > > productive development?
> > >
> > >I think that this is the same again.
> > >But I do have a question. What is "the peoples productive development"?
> > >
> > >I tried to answer the isues you raise, but since this reply is a little
> > >lengthy, I
> > >would reiterate this point as being central:
> > >
> > >1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit board 
>is a
> > >single
> > >trend.
> > >2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your brother.
> > >
> > >As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working 
>relationship
> > >that you
> > >feel is non-exploitative. First, editorial unity is not possible until
> > >there is a
> > >change in political line.Secondly,  if the current relationship is 
>termed
> > >"exploitative" then it must change. There's the problem. I have made 
>more
> > >than one
> > >proposal for its solution. As far as I am concerned its on you.
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 11:17:24 -0500
> > > > >
> > > > >To respond to Cliff's comments
> > > > >
> > > > > > "what is "unfortunate" about curtis' "confession"?  it is like 
>fresh
> > > > >air."
> > > > >
> > > > >I agree. Curtis explaining his position brings clarity, I think 
>Matt's
> > > > >meaning is that
> > > > >it is unfortunate that Curtis is loyal to the Republicans
> > > > >
> > > > > > "while yr "exploring", you might "explore" yr own responsibility 
>for
> > > > >curtis'
> > > > > > republican betrayal.  he comes from yr organization, the CAPB, 
>from
> > > > >which
> > > > > > you (henson-style) embraced the right & expelled working class
> > >activists
> > > > >&
> > > > > > revolutionaries.  where is the CAPB now?"
> > > > >
> > > > >I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear
> > >ideological
> > > > >leadership
> > > > >and bad political line which came to head in the People's Campaign 
>with
> > > > >support for
> > > > >bright and suppression of an anti-republican political line and a 
>lack
> > >of
> > > > >any
> > > > >revolutionary polirtical line.
> > > > >
> > > > > > "you might also "explore" how not only did yr NBPC not only "not 
>put
> > >out
> > > > > > warnings of the republican danger", but encouraged curtis to be
> > > > >republican,
> > > > > > created a "communist" "ideology" to support it, & in fact 
>yrselves
> > > > >embraced
> > > > > > republican partying"
> > > > >
> > > > >This is true enough although it has already been criticized on 
>numerous
> > > > >occassions
> > > > >
> > > > > > "recognize that curtis does not proclaim to "reform" the 
>republican
> > > > >party,
> > > > > > rather to "reform" its "image"--that is to find more liberal 
>marks
> > >like
> > > > > > yrself to con."
> > > > >
> > > > >That is how Curtis stated his case and that certainly seems to be 
>in
> > >line
> > > > >with the
> > > > >compassionate conservativism strategy of Shundler/Bush and even the
> > >most
> > > > >extreme right
> > > > >wing section of the Buchanan reform party who even nominated Foster 
>as
> > > > >their VP an
> > > > >afro-american woman. (although that shopuld also tell us something
> > >about
> > > > >the
> > > > >limitations of "woman" based ideology (ie."sisterhood" as well as 
>black
> > > > >nationalism)
> > > > >
> > > > > > ""finally", why shd it take my remarks to make you "serious 
>about
> > >being
> > > > > > self-reliant" (which you apparently aren't, judging from the 
>absence
> > >of
> > > > >the
> > > > > > paper)?"
> > > > >
> > > > >We don't want to exploit anyone. yr "remarks" made it clear to me 
>that
> > >you
> > > > >feel that
> > > > >the relationship we had as to production of the paper was
> > >"exploitative"
> > > > >
> > > > > > "as far as the definitive relationship between U&S & SWORD" we 
>stand
> > > > >ready
> > > > > > to produce the paper as a collective organizer & struggle 
>through
> > >our
> > > > > > differences.  as you apparently are uninterested in our 
>involvement
> > >(&
> > > > >even,
> > > > > > apparently, in yr own production!), you shd, openly & above 
>board,
> > >state
> > > > >yr
> > > > > > reasons for sectarian sabotage of the paper."
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >We have numerous ideological differences which in my opinion make 
>joint
> > > > >editorial work
> > > > >impossible at the moment. (not to mention differences of style. I 
>have
> > >a
> > > > >hard time
> > > > >trusting anyone who doesn't believe in friendship for instance and 
>also
> > >a
> > > > >hard time
> > > > >working with people who do not believe in trust itself.  Those are
> > > > >ultra-ultra left
> > > > >lines which really resolve as the essence of right-wing ideology 
>see
> > > > >Mussolini, G.
> > > > >Gordon Liddy, the SA in Nazi Germany for examples).  Joint 
>editorial
> > >work
> > > > >is
> > > > >impossible given our differences as we learned in practice. That is 
>we
> > > > >don't agree on
> > > > >fundamental issues (in particular reparations (and as a sub heading 
>the
> > > > >inability to
> > > > >be self-critical) and the woman question and  the idea of an
> > >organiztaion
> > > > >whose
> > > > >ideology is sisterhood is not marxist, it is feminist)  and we 
>wasted
> > >mor
> > > > >than one
> > > > >entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that 
>continue
> > > > >would have been
> > > > >the actual sabatage. We discussed working together on production 
>and in
> > > > >fact the last
> > > > >newspaper SWORD printed/photocopied. Since then  you have made it 
>clear
> > > > >that anything
> > > > >short of joint work on the edit board constitutes an exploititive
> > > > >relationship. Since
> > > > >we are not interetsed in knowingly exoploiting anyone nor are we
> > >interested
> > > > >in having
> > > > >an edit board of multifarious trends our current relationship or 
>lack
> > >of
> > > > >one is on
> > > > >you.
> > > > >
> > > > >As to the continued accusation of sabatage, it is something of a 
>joke.
> > >Joe
> > > > >Smith
> > > > >official spokesman of the oppressed first raised this accusation in 
>his
> > > > >essay "Let the
> > > > >oppressed speak".  His charge is that Matt did not send HIM 
>articles to
> > >lay
> > > > >out
> > > > >therefore the newspaper is being sabotaged. This is the same 
>muddled
> > >super
> > > > >subjective
> > > > >logic as the title of his piece suggests. Joe has blown up his own
> > > > >subjectyivty to the
> > > > >point that he belives that his subjectivity is  objectivity (see 
>also
> > >above
> > > > >"working
> > > > >class activists" expelled from Coalition. actually Cliff was 
>expelled
> > >and
> > > > >numerous
> > > > >working calss activist remained in the organization but Cliff 
>believes
> > >that
> > > > >not only
> > > > >does he represent the working calss but that he is the working 
>class)
> > > > >
> > > > >Looking at the political line of SWORD especially around the issue 
>of
> > >the
> > > > >paper and
> > > > >its production we are actually seeing the ultra-left version of the
> > >"office
> > > > >space
> > > > >community center club house" line. That is placing production and 
>the
> > > > >productive
> > > > >forces above politics. Joe nor Cliff is concerned with the 
>political
> > >line
> > > > >of the
> > > > >newspaper just "come out with it" "where is it" "hurry up" new and
> > >improved
> > > > >revolutionary newsaper faster stronger better than before.
> > > > >
> > > > >Joe wrote an article, that has been endlessly defended, that stated
> > >white
> > > > >workers need
> > > > >reparations along with afro-americans. I am not interested in 
>putting
> > >out
> > > > >that
> > > > >political line. Nor am I interested in putting out political lines
> > > > >endorsing
> > > > >"sisterhood".  Politics must lead production not the other way 
>around.
> > > > >Production
> > > > >before politics is the theory of sponatinety and the essence of
> > >economism
> > > > >(see "What
> > > > >is To be done")
> > > > >
> > > > >If SWORD wants to help put out the political line of the U&S 
>editorial
> > > > >board than
> > > > >let's go, but if they insist on being a part of the edit board then
> > >first
> > > > >we must come
> > > > >to ideological resolutions. From what has already been sd SWORD
> > >believes
> > > > >that helping
> > > > >with production is exploitation. We certainly do not intend to 
>exploit
> > > > >anyones
> > > > >resources.
> > > > >
> > > > > > "scientific socialists dismiss "luck".
> > > > >
> > > > >Actually, luck is part of that which can not be understood at 
>present
> > >or
> > > > >predicted
> > > > >with accuracy. For instance wheather at a rally.
> > > > >
> > > > > > unite, don't split
> > > > >
> > > > >"....First of all, we are discussing party literature and its
> > >subordination
> > > > >to party
> > > > >control. Everyone is free to write and say whatever he likes, 
>without
> > > > >restrictions.
> > > > >But every voluntary association (including the party) is also free 
>to
> > >expel
> > > > >memers who
> > > > >use the name of the party to advocate anti-party views. Freedom of
> > >speech
> > > > >and of the
> > > > >press must be complete. But then freedom of association must be
> > >complete
> > > > >too..."
> > > > >(Lenin. "Party Organization and Party Literature" Collected Works
> > >Volume 10
> > > > >p.47)
> > > > >
> > > > >Keith
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >CC: amirib@...
> > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > > > > > >Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 04:44:49
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes your 
>positions
> > > > >right
> > > > > > >about him & mine wrong.  To the extent that this is so, I was 
>wrong
> > >to
> > > > >say
> > > > > > >that you lied about his past.  However, we will certainly 
>continue
> > >to
> > > > > > >explore the role that BOL/SWORD played in pushing him back into 
>the
> > > > > > >Republican fold--as we will be struggling to win over many many
> > >working
> > > > > > >class people from the Republican party. There was a time not 
>too
> > >long
> > > > >ago
> > > > > > >that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's Black Nation 
>together...As
> > >we've
> > > > > > >agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against Republican 
>danger,
> > >etc.
> > > > >on
> > > > > > >the one hand, but on the other I maintain that dogmatism, not
> > > > > > >Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his democratic
> > >tendencies.
> > > > >&
> > > > > > >to
> > > > > > >the extent that they still exist, they will obviously run
> > >completely
> > > > > > >counter
> > > > > > >to the objectives of the racist, imperialist,
> > >not-about-to-be-reformed
> > > > > > >Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.  (Curtis- I say 
>this
> > >to
> > > > >you:
> > > > > > >The less distress your embrace of the Republicans causes you, 
>the
> > >more
> > > > >that
> > > > > > >self interest has won over the interests of the people, even 
>Sissy
> > > > >Adams.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was exploiting your
> > > > >resources
> > > > > > >directly following our "unity meeting" that made us more 
>serious
> > >about
> > > > > > >being
> > > > > > >self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move. (CS:..."Though 
>our
> > > > >lay-out
> > > > > > >and distribution resources are readily exploited.") As far as 
>the
> > > > > > >definitive
> > > > > > >relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I would say talk 
>to
> > >AB,
> > > > >try
> > > > > > >to
> > > > > > >organize another sit down, do what you need to do.  Otherwise, 
>good
> > > > >luck
> > > > > > >with the Union/housing battle.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >-Matt
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >----Original Message Follows----
> > > > > > >From: cliffsmith69@...
> > > > > > >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union!
> > > > > > >Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >New Brunswick Supports
> > > > > > >Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over Housing!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all labor,
> > > > > > >organized or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic New
> > > > > > >Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union contractor, NOVA
> > > > > > >Development.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the
> > >elimination
> > > > > > >of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes, with no
> > > > > > >replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime against 
>the
> > > > > > >people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of NBHA, 
>has
> > > > > > >given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union 
>developer,
> > >with
> > > > > > >not a single worker from the community!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union labor, 
>and
> > >for
> > > > > > >community control over housing, in part through an All-Elected,
> > > > > > >Resident Housing Authority!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Union Jobs!
> > > > > > >Community Employment!
> > > > > > >Affordable Housing!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Contact Joe Smith
> > > > > > >729.0390
> > > > > > >can_bush@...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > 
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1819
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-18 17:36:15
Subject:2 from Pac
Message:

Can U C the Pride in the Pantha?

Can U C the pride in the pantha
as he glows in splendor and grace
toppling obstacles placed in the way
of the progression of his race

Can U C the pride in the pantha
as she nurtures her young alone
the seed must grow regardless
of the fact that its placed in stone

Can't U C the pride in the panthas
as they unify as one
the flower blooms with brilliance
and outshines the rays of the sun.


Black Woman
             4 Marquita

The day I met U I saw strength
and I knew from that point on
that U were pure woman 2 me
possessing a spirit that was strong

I want smiles 2 replace the sorrow
that U have encountered in the past
and since it was strength that attracted me 2 U
it will take strength 2 make it last

My negative side will attempt 2 change U
but please fight that with your all
it will be your strength that will keep us both standing
while others around us fall


2Pac Shakur

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1821
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-18 20:29:35
Subject:Joe Taz
Message:



Joe- I will attempt to respond to your dizzying array of charges, 
countercharges, allegations, suppositions, suspicions, assumptions, 
inventions, creations, demands, and wild-eyed conclusions.  But if I may 
take another approach because our view of history is mildly different:

1. You repeatedly charge Keith, Louise, and myself with sabbotaging U&S.  
This is more interesting considering we had been meeting and planning with 
AB to restart U&S for months before SWORD called AB to set up a meeting, 
disengenuously on my behalf.  So we met anyway with SWORD and accomplished 
nothing in two or three weeks because the meetings deteriorated into 
bickering with SWORD over fundamental principles of democracy,& 
maximum/minimum demands that U&S maintains and SWORD does not.  So we set up 
a "unity" meeting outside the editboard meetings, which was more productive 
& at the end of which we agreed that SWORD would help with *production.*  
Shortly afterwards we recieved the 2000 word polemic from Cliff. There he 
accused us of exploiting SWORD's resources.  What does this mean to you?  To 
me it meant that we should stop exploiting SWORD's resources.  So we are 
becoming self-sufficient, in other words, not dependent on SWORD to produce 
the paper.  IN other words, you didn't teach us self-reliance, you taught us 
not to depend on you.  Don't get confused.  So, this is why I didn't send 
you articles, or ask Cliff to do layout.  As far a Maura is concerned, she 
has never informed me of her allegance to SWORD or your "struggle first 
unite later" ways.  So why shouldn't she help if she decides to?

AS far as the production in general, it's getting done, and a structure is 
being developed to sustain it on a more regular basis.  Your approach to 
this entire issue has shown that you don't understand that *production* is 
subordinate to ideological unity, (so we're not going to race to scrap 
together a shoddy paper because SWORD has blackmailed us--"Now or else we 
accuse you of sabotage!")and two that *struggle* is subordinate to unity in 
general (I think the incident at the last Kimako's demonstrates this yet 
again, by picking a fight with other members of the edit board.)  You need 
to stop blaming other people for your own errors, to start.



2.  As for the Coalition:  Who was subordinated to Curtis?  When was Curtis 
leading the Coalition?  When I resigned, I nominated Janis to take the helm 
because of her developed ideology and history with the movement before our 
time.  (BTW--Your demands for sadistic demonstrations of public 
self-flogging make me feel sorry for your organization.  Seriously.  It 
reminds me of that time that I became so enraged that time that Cliff sped 
up and down Central Ave in his Camaro piss drunk that I decked him...and 
then spent the next three weeks begging for his forgiveness to the point of 
personal humiliation, while my requests for him to criticize his drunken 
driving were met with "Nobody got hurt, so I didn't endanger anyone".   
Keith, myself, others have repeatedly acknowledged certain errors, but SWORD 
continues to use them as bludgeons against us.  What's the point of 
self-criticism if the other party doesn't accept it?  (Is that why you are 
so reluctant to be self-critical?)  So don't expect me to prostrate myself 
to the Priests of the Revolution for redemption...done that, been there, 
have the scar.)  In any case, several months ago, we got into a debate about 
the history of the Coalition the last time you charged that we were so 
inactive with so little base.  At that time, I listed 10 or 12 different 
projects taht we had going in different areas of the community.  At that 
time you admitted that you had misjugded the Coalition.  Remember, or no?    
The fact is that the Coaliton had been developing some very strong ties to 
the WC community, and our meetings were far more represented by WC folks 
than any other grassroots organization that I knew of at the time in NB.  As 
for us being subordinated to Republicans, I addressed that.  Our closet 
republican was not in the leadership, although he did a great deal to build 
and promote the organization, our principles, and advocate for community 
control over the police.  These are the democtratic tendencies that I was 
refering to which SWORD was unable to embrace, in order to "kill the 
patient", as they say.  So yes, this *line* did a great deal to push him 
further from the democratic struggle and into the arms of an awaiting 
Republican Party.  As for the WC activists that were expelled, I know of 
none, except for Cliff, who was *kept* from working with the Coalition 
because of apparant personal issues that appeared to be negatively effecting 
his relationships with people around him. In other words, women in NJFO were 
totally afraid to work with him because of his own abuse, and as the head of 
the Coalition, it was my responsibility to keep THAT undemocratic element 
out.  Of course, more recently we have discussed that while he was 
simultaneously being kicked out of NJFO, there were overarching political 
reasons for that expulsion--of which I had no knowledge at the time as the 
CU meetings where these decisions were made were secret--. And so, "we never 
this and that..."  The Coalition struggled to win over working class people, 
period.  We didn't check their party documentation on the way in.  If they 
were down with our points of unity, that was all we required.

3.  As for my relationship with my parents, you have no idea what the hell 
you're talking about and you best keep that off this public egroup, brother.

4. How many times do you want to scream about Keith and others registering 
Republican and supporting Bright in exchange for 30 pieces of silver and an 
office?  It's been acknowledged and self-criticized countless times here and 
in the NBPC meetings, in NJFO meetings so frequently that more than half the 
organization split and started a new organization (so I hear). BTW- I wasn't 
the one to advocate to withhold the Revolutionary Democratic Line on the 
National Election.  In fact, my main contribution to the campaign was the 
U&S election issue  itself, which I spent 2 months working on.  I watched 
95% of my work toward that campaign which was geared to promote 
Revolutionary Democracy get trashed because the majority of NJFO no longer 
supported it.  Then why do you keep beating your chest my way about this.  
You need to back off about "the way you sabatoged U&S's position being put 
forward."  That
's an outright & blatant fabrication of the facts, friend.

Like I said, I no longer subscribe to self-flogging.  My Catholic days are 
over.  But you continue to declair that *nothing* has been done to rectify 
any of this.  Let's start with, we were the ones who forced the debate to 
get you & SWORD back on the People's Campaign egroup list, even before you 
were banned.  Directly following that, we began advocating that SWORD be 
reinvited into the Peoples' Campaign itself, as part of the bigger argument 
that it was not functioning as a united front.  We then *demonstrated* our 
willingness to attempt to build unity by meeting with SWORD in the U&S 
editboard meeeting.  That obviously didn't work out (see #1 above for 
reasons) but not to say it can't in the future.  But it's clear that it 
can't and won't this way.  And what is also clear is that my experience with 
SWORD has taught me the fine line between advocating for it to participate 
in the United Front, and supporting it in principle but as an abstract idea.

Take it personal, Joe-  Matt





----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith"
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Re: Et tu, WARON Curtis?
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:06:56 -0400
>
>Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes your positions right 
>about him & mine wrong.
matt-
1. can you explain what is unfortunate?
2. can you explain exactly what your position and your interpretation of my
position on curtis are and why mine is right and your's is wrong.
>
>To the extent that this is so, I was wrong to say that you lied about his 
>past.
which means that you have been subserviant to a republican for years, and
now comes the question of why? for the benefit of the doubt, you had thought
that you had won over a working class resident to the struggle against
police brutality. though through your lack of organizing a community base,
or even pushing to organize a community base, you were satisfied with
maintaining curtis as your example of practice - although over 1000 people
marched when sissy was murdered, you were satisfied with curtis. satisfied
so much so that you were expelling working class revolutionaries from the
coalition. when do you plan on addressing any of this?
>
>However, we will certainly continue to explore the role that BOL/SWORD 
>played in pushing him back into the Republican fold--as we will be 
>struggling to win over many many working class people from the Republican 
>party.
now here's where you might as well just hold your nose and jump off a
fucking roof. please, by all means, keep me posted on your exploration of
the only group that attacked curtis's republican position, as well as all
republicans and all republican positions to come from within the peoples'
campaign, and let me know what you turn up. you have never struggled to win
over the working class from the Republican party, not even with your parents
and definitely not in new brunswick where you and keith and louise organized
a sabatoge of U&S while recruiting to put bright into the position of NB
republican chair. interesting how you state that:
"BOL/SWORD played in pushing him back into the Republican fold"
what is that to say? that he was coming away from the Republican party? you
have a certain fucked up warped head to accuse SWORD of pushing him back.
you would never even know that he is a Racist Republican if not for SWORD.
not only, but that you joined with bush2 and organized in bush2's
organization more sucessfully than any other republicans ever in NB - HOW
DOES THAT WORK TO "BE STRUGGLING TO WIN OVER MANY MANY WORKING CLASS PEOPLE
FROM THE REPUBLICAN PARTY? this you definitely need adress.
>
>There was a time not too long ago that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's 
>Black Nation together...
yes, probably you need to reread such pieces and get on the streets with
your ideas.
>
>As we've agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against Republican danger, 
>etc. on the one hand, but on the other I maintain that dogmatism, not 
>Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his democratic tendencies.
1. these agreements are only in words on behalf of yourself and keith and
louise, you all still belong to an organization called the peoples' campaign
that consists of Republicans - you have done nothing to rectify the
situation, not one thing. and i have yet to see/hear any proposals from your
behalf suggesting rectification of this situation.
2. "didn't put out warnings about Republican danger", what is it that you
did?
3. "but on the other I maintain that dogmatism, not Marxism-Leninism, caused
BOL not to embrace his democratic tendencies." what are you talking about?
>
>& to the extent that they still exist, they will obviously run completely 
>counter to the objectives of the racist, imperialist, 
>not-about-to-be-reformed Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.
i have not seen anything from curtis to substantiate anything you are
saying, can you provide some detailed analysis. remember el senior is the
protege of secretary of state, skunk soaries, who when shaun potts was
murdered was on the scene talking about black power and qouting malcolm x
while organizing protests throughout the community.
>
>(Curtis- I say this to you: The less distress your embrace of the 
>Republicans causes you, the more that self interest has won over the 
>interests of the people, even Sissy Adams.)
matt, you better say more than that and try to make sense out of it next
time. here, you can bower some phrases from me: curtis- I say this to you:
you are a snake that has done nothing to serve the people. your objectives
of attempting to "change the image of the Republican party" can serve no
other that the scum of the earth. you bend your knees for your house and you
compromise the platform of community control to promote a hidden republican
agenda. waron curtis is what your name now is and as much as you promote any
republican positions is as much as the wars on.
the thing is matt, if you don't act in a serious manner to rectify this
situation, then you have played yourself. a thorough open and above board
self-criticism for your entire relationship with waron curtis is due.
>
>Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was exploiting your resources 
>directly following our "unity meeting" that made us more serious about 
>being self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move. (CS:..."Though our 
>lay-out and distribution resources are readily exploited.")
that is not how you stated the end of the meeting to myself. you told me
that you were to get me the articles asap. why are you shy when the honest
analysis comes on the table? what else are you doing but exploiting SWORD's
resources with the distribution of the paper? i am all for exploiting U&S in
order to build circles of revolutionaries and to win the advanced to
communism. of the over 2000 issues that SWORD printed, how many has
yourself, keith, and lousie distributed each?
and why is it that you still continually invite maura for layout and not
cliff who has explained that he can help?
you should always be serious about being self-reliant, i am glad that we
taught you that - but that doesn't mean that U&S should not allow for
SWORD's analysis and abilities to be united with.
>
>As far as the definitive relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I 
>would say talk to AB, try to organize another sit down, do what you need to 
>do.
what exactly does a sit down with amiri accomplish? over every major issue
you have organized and accepted amiri's position to his face and then gone
behind his back and sabatoged the position. ie. the last 2 presidential
races and the way you sabatoged U&S's position being put forward.
>
>Otherwise, good luck with the Union/housing battle.
certainly a fitting way to end your post... don't you think the housing
battle would be much more of a progressive community effort if a resident
from public housing sat in the seat the you put dim into?
>
>-Matt
joe
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows---- From: cliffsmith69@... Reply-To: 
>coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com 
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union! Date: Sun, 08 Jul 
>2001 21:15:33 -0000
>
>New Brunswick Supports Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over 
>Housing!
>
>
>We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all labor, organized 
>or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic New Brunswick Housing 
>Authority and its non-union contractor, NOVA Development.
>
>After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the elimination of 
>180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes, with no replacement 
>housing in motion, it is a further crime against the people that Kevin 
>Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of NBHA, has given the Projects 
>Demolition Contract to a non-union developer, with not a single worker from 
>the community!
>
>We join the fight for local jobs! But also for union labor, and for 
>community control over housing, in part through an All-Elected, Resident 
>Housing Authority!
>
>The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
>
>Union Jobs! Community Employment! Affordable Housing!
>
>
>
>Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
>
>Contact Joe Smith 729.0390 can_bush@...
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1822
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-18 22:09:19
Subject:Re: BURY schundle
Message:

**** the point ****

this is the main point for all to see clear as day:

     Keith and Matt and Louise are the only ones saying that we
     can not work together. They have been saying that for the last six
     years. That has been their entire practice towards uniting
     revolutionaries and winning the advanced to communism.

and to matt, again you should watch your mouth especially for matters you 
were not there to observe. you talk as if you attended kimako's, which you 
did not - the threats i received by manny and letti are not forgotten, you 
want what they got comin? keep talkin'

joe

>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
>Date: Tue, 08 Jan 1980 15:47:13 -0500
>
>Cliff,
>the "proof" is this:
>"Reperations for the multi-national working class!!" -Joe Smith
>
>as I wrote below that line is a liquidation of the national question. This 
>shouild be
>obvious to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Marxism-Leninism.
>
>again
>since we have ideological disagreements, this being a case in point, and 
>since you
>feel that our relationship was exploitive how are we going to work togther?
>I am starting to think that you are avoiding the point.
>Keith
>
>cliff smith wrote:
>
> > prove this:
> >
> > "liquidates the demand and operates under the unstated assumption that
> > equality has already been achieved among the multi-natuional
> > >working class- "
> >
> > "It makes no distinction between the minimum and maximum program but
> > actually collapses the two."
> >
> > (hint--you cant cause its false.)
> > reparations for oppressed nations &all oppressed peoples.
> > cliff
> >
> > whens the next peoples campaign meeting?
> >
> > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
> > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 21:39:59 -0500
> > >
> > >Joe,
> > >yr slogan "Reperations for the multi-national working class!!" is
> > >trotskyism.
> > >U&S put forward and has been struggling for reperations for slavery for 
>the
> > >afro-american nation. Your slogan liquidates the demand and operates 
>under
> > >the
> > >unstated assumption that equality has already been achieved among the
> > >multi-natuional
> > >working class- that's trotskyism. The slogan is militant reformism. It
> > >makes no
> > >distinction between the minimum and maximum program but actually 
>collapses
> > >the two.
> > >Maybe yr rrrrrrevolutionary practice should include studying
> > >marxism-leninism.
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Reperations for the multi-national working class!!
> > > >
> > > > break that down
> > > >
> > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
> > > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 19:00:16 -0500
> > > > >
> > > > >Joe,
> > > > >you wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > "that is the headline the targum gave the essay (when i e-mailed 
>it
> > >to
> > > > >myself
> > > > > > the title became such) which was written in response to david
> > >horowitz's
> > > > >10
> > > > > > reasons why reparations for blacks is wrong... you were at 
>rutger's
> > >last
> > > > > > semester weren't you? didn't catch your position, where is it? 
>do
> > >you
> > > > >agree
> > > > > > that your boss should rob you?"
> > > > >
> > > > >I'm not sure exactly what your saying, but as to my boss robbing me 
>or
> > >any
> > > > >boss
> > > > >robbing anyone,  that it is not the issue of reparations. You are
> > >confusing
> > > > >two
> > > > >distinct things. Reparations for afro-americacans are repeartions 
>for
> > > > >chattel slavery.
> > > > >Reparations is one of the ways to create equality among the
> > >multi-national
> > > > >working
> > > > >calss so that unity is easier to achieve. If white workers 
>throughout
> > >the
> > > > >U&S got
> > > > >repartions along with afro-american workers then the relationship 
>would
> > >not
> > > > >change.You
> > > > >are making the demand for reparations a demand for socialism.
> > > > >
> > > > > > "i don't see any working class people in the capb, how is it 
>that u
> > >do?"
> > > > >
> > > > >When the coalition existed it was primarily a working class
> > >organization.
> > > > >If you are
> > > > >gloating about its demise I don't know what to tell you.
> > > > >
> > > > > > "you are off the wall to explain your arguements from such 
>basis."
> > > > >
> > > > >I don't know what that sentence is refering to.
> > > > >
> > > > > > you say:
> > > > > > "Politics must lead production not the other way around."
> > > > >
> > > > >That's my line, I don't think that you answered it.
> > > > >
> > > > > > the differences in our ideologies are on the table, what else 
>needs
> > >to
> > > > >be
> > > > > > done to put forward the newspaper collectively? the concept of 
>u&s
> > >is to
> > > > > > unite revolutionaries, and to win the advanced to communism! not 
>to
> > >sit
> > > > >in
> > > > > > meetings until we all agree with your IDEAS, because we both 
>know
> > >your
> > > > > > practice is out to lunch...
> > > > >
> > > > >I raised the question of putting froward the paper collectively 
>very
> > > > >specificly in the
> > > > >piece to whihc you responded.
> > > > >the issue is:
> > > > >1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit 
>board
> > >is
> > > > >one trend.
> > > > >2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your 
>brother.
> > > > >
> > > > >As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working
> > >relationship
> > > > >that you
> > > > >feel is non-exploitative.
> > > > >
> > > > >I don't think that we both know my "practice is out to lunch". If 
>this
> > >were
> > > > >the case
> > > > >than why would you be so eager to unite with it?
> > > > >
> > > > > > keith, the fact is i have seen you expell and disassociate 
>yourself
> > >from
> > > > > > more revolutionary/working class people than i've seen you 
>organize.
> > >if
> > > > >i
> > > > > > didn't call amiri and set up a meeting, which you and matt had
> > > > >cancelled, i
> > > > > > don't see reason that there would be any production going on at 
>all.
> > > > >
> > > > >Actaully I don't think that you know much about my practice.
> > > > >
> > > > >  We re-scheduled the meeting because Baraka was not going to be in
> > >town on
> > > > >the
> > > > >original date and you came to that meeting
> > > > >.
> > > > >I especially like the super subjective grandiose vision of yrself.  
>" i
> > > > >don't see
> > > > >reason that there would be any production going on at all."  Are 
>you
> > >also
> > > > >actaully the
> > > > >emobiement of Reason that travels throughout history on whose 
>behalf
> > >all
> > > > >people are
> > > > >acting?
> > > > >
> > > > > > the reason the same criticism is coming forward about the
> > >republicans in
> > > > >the
> > > > > > peoples' campaign is because the situation has not been 
>rectified.
> > >nor
> > > > >have
> > > > > > you offered anything more than a mere admittance to things
> > >impossible to
> > > > > > deny about your affiliation with such alliances with 
>republicans.
> > >what
> > > > >is
> > > > > > your plan keith to rectify the situation, because as it is dim 
>is on
> > >the
> > > > > > housing authority - that is your bag.
> > > > >
> > > > >You can make the criticism untill the cows come home. Your proposal 
>for
> > > > >rectification
> > > > >is to expel the republicans and re-admit you.
> > > > >I already sd that I agree republicans should be expelled from the
> > > > >organization and
> > > > >that SWORD should be united with in the People's Campaign.But I 
>think
> > >that
> > > > >it is more
> > > > >important that the majority of people involved with the camapign
> > >understand
> > > > >what is
> > > > >happening and what mistakes were made, otherwise they will just be
> > >repeated
> > > > >(maybe
> > > > >with an ultra-left cover).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > you say:
> > > > > > "I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear
> > > > >ideological
> > > > > > leadership and bad political line which came to head in the 
>People's
> > > > > > Campaign with support for bright and suppression of an
> > >anti-republican
> > > > > > political line and a lack of any revolutionary polirtical line."
> > > > >
> > > > > > but what are you going to do?
> > > > >
> > > > >I think that you are just repeating yrself here, but again maybe 
>I'm
> > > > >blinded by
> > > > >ignorance if so please cast the light. Otherwise see my reply 
>above.
> > > > >
> > > > > > who is going to lead the vote to announce all republicans must 
>be
> > > > >removed
> > > > > > and are not welcome in the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign 
>because
> > >in
> > > > >fact
> > > > > > the racist republicans party is the most vicous opposition to 
>the
> > > > >peoples
> > > > > > productive development?
> > > > >
> > > > >I think that this is the same again.
> > > > >But I do have a question. What is "the peoples productive 
>development"?
> > > > >
> > > > >I tried to answer the isues you raise, but since this reply is a 
>little
> > > > >lengthy, I
> > > > >would reiterate this point as being central:
> > > > >
> > > > >1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit 
>board
> > >is a
> > > > >single
> > > > >trend.
> > > > >2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your 
>brother.
> > > > >
> > > > >As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working
> > >relationship
> > > > >that you
> > > > >feel is non-exploitative. First, editorial unity is not possible 
>until
> > > > >there is a
> > > > >change in political line.Secondly,  if the current relationship is
> > >termed
> > > > >"exploitative" then it must change. There's the problem. I have 
>made
> > >more
> > > > >than one
> > > > >proposal for its solution. As far as I am concerned its on you.
> > > > >
> > > > >Keith
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > > > > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 11:17:24 -0500
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >To respond to Cliff's comments
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "what is "unfortunate" about curtis' "confession"?  it is 
>like
> > >fresh
> > > > > > >air."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I agree. Curtis explaining his position brings clarity, I think
> > >Matt's
> > > > > > >meaning is that
> > > > > > >it is unfortunate that Curtis is loyal to the Republicans
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "while yr "exploring", you might "explore" yr own 
>responsibility
> > >for
> > > > > > >curtis'
> > > > > > > > republican betrayal.  he comes from yr organization, the 
>CAPB,
> > >from
> > > > > > >which
> > > > > > > > you (henson-style) embraced the right & expelled working 
>class
> > > > >activists
> > > > > > >&
> > > > > > > > revolutionaries.  where is the CAPB now?"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear
> > > > >ideological
> > > > > > >leadership
> > > > > > >and bad political line which came to head in the People's 
>Campaign
> > >with
> > > > > > >support for
> > > > > > >bright and suppression of an anti-republican political line and 
>a
> > >lack
> > > > >of
> > > > > > >any
> > > > > > >revolutionary polirtical line.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "you might also "explore" how not only did yr NBPC not only 
>"not
> > >put
> > > > >out
> > > > > > > > warnings of the republican danger", but encouraged curtis to 
>be
> > > > > > >republican,
> > > > > > > > created a "communist" "ideology" to support it, & in fact
> > >yrselves
> > > > > > >embraced
> > > > > > > > republican partying"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >This is true enough although it has already been criticized on
> > >numerous
> > > > > > >occassions
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "recognize that curtis does not proclaim to "reform" the
> > >republican
> > > > > > >party,
> > > > > > > > rather to "reform" its "image"--that is to find more liberal
> > >marks
> > > > >like
> > > > > > > > yrself to con."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >That is how Curtis stated his case and that certainly seems to 
>be
> > >in
> > > > >line
> > > > > > >with the
> > > > > > >compassionate conservativism strategy of Shundler/Bush and even 
>the
> > > > >most
> > > > > > >extreme right
> > > > > > >wing section of the Buchanan reform party who even nominated 
>Foster
> > >as
> > > > > > >their VP an
> > > > > > >afro-american woman. (although that shopuld also tell us 
>something
> > > > >about
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > >limitations of "woman" based ideology (ie."sisterhood" as well 
>as
> > >black
> > > > > > >nationalism)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ""finally", why shd it take my remarks to make you "serious
> > >about
> > > > >being
> > > > > > > > self-reliant" (which you apparently aren't, judging from the
> > >absence
> > > > >of
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > paper)?"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >We don't want to exploit anyone. yr "remarks" made it clear to 
>me
> > >that
> > > > >you
> > > > > > >feel that
> > > > > > >the relationship we had as to production of the paper was
> > > > >"exploitative"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "as far as the definitive relationship between U&S & SWORD" 
>we
> > >stand
> > > > > > >ready
> > > > > > > > to produce the paper as a collective organizer & struggle
> > >through
> > > > >our
> > > > > > > > differences.  as you apparently are uninterested in our
> > >involvement
> > > > >(&
> > > > > > >even,
> > > > > > > > apparently, in yr own production!), you shd, openly & above
> > >board,
> > > > >state
> > > > > > >yr
> > > > > > > > reasons for sectarian sabotage of the paper."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >We have numerous ideological differences which in my opinion 
>make
> > >joint
> > > > > > >editorial work
> > > > > > >impossible at the moment. (not to mention differences of style. 
>I
> > >have
> > > > >a
> > > > > > >hard time
> > > > > > >trusting anyone who doesn't believe in friendship for instance 
>and
> > >also
> > > > >a
> > > > > > >hard time
> > > > > > >working with people who do not believe in trust itself.  Those 
>are
> > > > > > >ultra-ultra left
> > > > > > >lines which really resolve as the essence of right-wing 
>ideology
> > >see
> > > > > > >Mussolini, G.
> > > > > > >Gordon Liddy, the SA in Nazi Germany for examples).  Joint
> > >editorial
> > > > >work
> > > > > > >is
> > > > > > >impossible given our differences as we learned in practice. 
>That is
> > >we
> > > > > > >don't agree on
> > > > > > >fundamental issues (in particular reparations (and as a sub 
>heading
> > >the
> > > > > > >inability to
> > > > > > >be self-critical) and the woman question and  the idea of an
> > > > >organiztaion
> > > > > > >whose
> > > > > > >ideology is sisterhood is not marxist, it is feminist)  and we
> > >wasted
> > > > >mor
> > > > > > >than one
> > > > > > >entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that
> > >continue
> > > > > > >would have been
> > > > > > >the actual sabatage. We discussed working together on 
>production
> > >and in
> > > > > > >fact the last
> > > > > > >newspaper SWORD printed/photocopied. Since then  you have made 
>it
> > >clear
> > > > > > >that anything
> > > > > > >short of joint work on the edit board constitutes an 
>exploititive
> > > > > > >relationship. Since
> > > > > > >we are not interetsed in knowingly exoploiting anyone nor are 
>we
> > > > >interested
> > > > > > >in having
> > > > > > >an edit board of multifarious trends our current relationship 
>or
> > >lack
> > > > >of
> > > > > > >one is on
> > > > > > >you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >As to the continued accusation of sabatage, it is something of 
>a
> > >joke.
> > > > >Joe
> > > > > > >Smith
> > > > > > >official spokesman of the oppressed first raised this 
>accusation in
> > >his
> > > > > > >essay "Let the
> > > > > > >oppressed speak".  His charge is that Matt did not send HIM
> > >articles to
> > > > >lay
> > > > > > >out
> > > > > > >therefore the newspaper is being sabotaged. This is the same
> > >muddled
> > > > >super
> > > > > > >subjective
> > > > > > >logic as the title of his piece suggests. Joe has blown up his 
>own
> > > > > > >subjectyivty to the
> > > > > > >point that he belives that his subjectivity is  objectivity 
>(see
> > >also
> > > > >above
> > > > > > >"working
> > > > > > >class activists" expelled from Coalition. actually Cliff was
> > >expelled
> > > > >and
> > > > > > >numerous
> > > > > > >working calss activist remained in the organization but Cliff
> > >believes
> > > > >that
> > > > > > >not only
> > > > > > >does he represent the working calss but that he is the working
> > >class)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Looking at the political line of SWORD especially around the 
>issue
> > >of
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >paper and
> > > > > > >its production we are actually seeing the ultra-left version of 
>the
> > > > >"office
> > > > > > >space
> > > > > > >community center club house" line. That is placing production 
>and
> > >the
> > > > > > >productive
> > > > > > >forces above politics. Joe nor Cliff is concerned with the
> > >political
> > > > >line
> > > > > > >of the
> > > > > > >newspaper just "come out with it" "where is it" "hurry up" new 
>and
> > > > >improved
> > > > > > >revolutionary newsaper faster stronger better than before.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Joe wrote an article, that has been endlessly defended, that 
>stated
> > > > >white
> > > > > > >workers need
> > > > > > >reparations along with afro-americans. I am not interested in
> > >putting
> > > > >out
> > > > > > >that
> > > > > > >political line. Nor am I interested in putting out political 
>lines
> > > > > > >endorsing
> > > > > > >"sisterhood".  Politics must lead production not the other way
> > >around.
> > > > > > >Production
> > > > > > >before politics is the theory of sponatinety and the essence of
> > > > >economism
> > > > > > >(see "What
> > > > > > >is To be done")
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >If SWORD wants to help put out the political line of the U&S
> > >editorial
> > > > > > >board than
> > > > > > >let's go, but if they insist on being a part of the edit board 
>then
> > > > >first
> > > > > > >we must come
> > > > > > >to ideological resolutions. From what has already been sd SWORD
> > > > >believes
> > > > > > >that helping
> > > > > > >with production is exploitation. We certainly do not intend to
> > >exploit
> > > > > > >anyones
> > > > > > >resources.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "scientific socialists dismiss "luck".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Actually, luck is part of that which can not be understood at
> > >present
> > > > >or
> > > > > > >predicted
> > > > > > >with accuracy. For instance wheather at a rally.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > unite, don't split
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >"....First of all, we are discussing party literature and its
> > > > >subordination
> > > > > > >to party
> > > > > > >control. Everyone is free to write and say whatever he likes,
> > >without
> > > > > > >restrictions.
> > > > > > >But every voluntary association (including the party) is also 
>free
> > >to
> > > > >expel
> > > > > > >memers who
> > > > > > >use the name of the party to advocate anti-party views. Freedom 
>of
> > > > >speech
> > > > > > >and of the
> > > > > > >press must be complete. But then freedom of association must be
> > > > >complete
> > > > > > >too..."
> > > > > > >(Lenin. "Party Organization and Party Literature" Collected 
>Works
> > > > >Volume 10
> > > > > > >p.47)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Keith
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >CC: amirib@...
> > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 04:44:49
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes your
> > >positions
> > > > > > >right
> > > > > > > > >about him & mine wrong.  To the extent that this is so, I 
>was
> > >wrong
> > > > >to
> > > > > > >say
> > > > > > > > >that you lied about his past.  However, we will certainly
> > >continue
> > > > >to
> > > > > > > > >explore the role that BOL/SWORD played in pushing him back 
>into
> > >the
> > > > > > > > >Republican fold--as we will be struggling to win over many 
>many
> > > > >working
> > > > > > > > >class people from the Republican party. There was a time 
>not
> > >too
> > > > >long
> > > > > > >ago
> > > > > > > > >that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's Black Nation
> > >together...As
> > > > >we've
> > > > > > > > >agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against Republican
> > >danger,
> > > > >etc.
> > > > > > >on
> > > > > > > > >the one hand, but on the other I maintain that dogmatism, 
>not
> > > > > > > > >Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his democratic
> > > > >tendencies.
> > > > > > >&
> > > > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > >the extent that they still exist, they will obviously run
> > > > >completely
> > > > > > > > >counter
> > > > > > > > >to the objectives of the racist, imperialist,
> > > > >not-about-to-be-reformed
> > > > > > > > >Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.  (Curtis- I 
>say
> > >this
> > > > >to
> > > > > > >you:
> > > > > > > > >The less distress your embrace of the Republicans causes 
>you,
> > >the
> > > > >more
> > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > >self interest has won over the interests of the people, 
>even
> > >Sissy
> > > > > > >Adams.)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was exploiting 
>your
> > > > > > >resources
> > > > > > > > >directly following our "unity meeting" that made us more
> > >serious
> > > > >about
> > > > > > > > >being
> > > > > > > > >self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move. 
>(CS:..."Though
> > >our
> > > > > > >lay-out
> > > > > > > > >and distribution resources are readily exploited.") As far 
>as
> > >the
> > > > > > > > >definitive
> > > > > > > > >relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I would say 
>talk
> > >to
> > > > >AB,
> > > > > > >try
> > > > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > >organize another sit down, do what you need to do.  
>Otherwise,
> > >good
> > > > > > >luck
> > > > > > > > >with the Union/housing battle.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >-Matt
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >----Original Message Follows----
> > > > > > > > >From: cliffsmith69@...
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union!
> > > > > > > > >Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0000
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >New Brunswick Supports
> > > > > > > > >Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over 
>Housing!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all 
>labor,
> > > > > > > > >organized or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic 
>New
> > > > > > > > >Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union contractor, 
>NOVA
> > > > > > > > >Development.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the
> > > > >elimination
> > > > > > > > >of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes, 
>with no
> > > > > > > > >replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime 
>against
> > >the
> > > > > > > > >people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of 
>NBHA,
> > >has
> > > > > > > > >given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union
> > >developer,
> > > > >with
> > > > > > > > >not a single worker from the community!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union 
>labor,
> > >and
> > > > >for
> > > > > > > > >community control over housing, in part through an 
>All-Elected,
> > > > > > > > >Resident Housing Authority!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Union Jobs!
> > > > > > > > >Community Employment!
> > > > > > > > >Affordable Housing!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Contact Joe Smith
> > > > > > > > >729.0390
> > > > > > > > >can_bush@...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > > >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1825
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-19 09:51:37
Subject:Taz
Message:

Joe- you are a walking paradox.  Amazing.


Relatedly:
Pick one that suits you (I like "pretty kettle of fish", or "not made with 
rose water")


V. WORDS RELATING TO THE VOLUNTARY POWERS; INDIVIDUAL VOLITION
IV. ANTAGONISM
1. Conditional antagonism
Difficulty.

[Antonyms: facility.]

[Nouns] difficulty; hardness; impracticability (impossibility) [more]; tough 
work, hard work, uphill work; hard task, Herculean task, Augean task; task 
of Sisyphus, Sisyphean labor, tough job, teaser, rasper, dead lift.

dilemma, embarrassment; deadlock; perplexity (uncertainty) [more]; 
intricacy; entanglement [more]; cross fire; awkwardness, delicacy, ticklish 
card to play, knot, Gordian knot, dignus vindice nodus, net, meshes, maze; 
coil (convolution) [more]; crooked path; involvement.

nice point, delicate point, subtle point, knotty point; vexed question, 
vexata quaestio, poser; puzzle (riddle) [more]; paradox; hard nut to crack, 
nut to crack; bone to pick, crux, pons asinorum, where the shoe pinches.

nonplus, quandary, strait, pass, pinch, pretty pass, stress, brunt; critical 
situation, crisis; trial, rub, emergency, exigency, scramble.

scrape, hobble, slough, quagmire, hot water, hornet's nest; sea of troubles, 
peck of troubles; pretty kettle of fish; pickle, stew, imbroglio, mess, ado; 
false position.

set fast, stand; deadlock, dead set.

fix, horns of a dilemma, cul de sac; hitch; stumblng block (hindrance) 
[more].

[Verbs] be difficult; run one hard, go against the grain, try one's 
patience, put one out; put to one's shifts, put to one's wit's end; go hard 
with one, try one; pose, perplex (uncertain) [more]; bother, nonplus, 
gravel, bring to a deadlock; be impossible [more]; be in the way of (hinder) 
[more].

meet with difficulties; labor under difficulties; get into difficulties; 
plunge into difficulties; struggle with difficulties; contend with 
difficulties; grapple with difficulties; labor under a disadvantage; be in 
difficulty

fish in troubled waters, buffet the waves, swim against the stream, scud 
under bare poles.

have much ado with, have a hard time of it; come to the push, come to the 
pinch; bear the brunt.

grope in the dark, lose one's way, weave a tangled web, walk among eggs.

get into a scrape; bring a hornet's nest about one's ears; be put to one's 
shifts; flounder, boggle, struggle; not know which way to turn (uncertain) 
[more]; perdre son Latin; stick at, stick in the mud, stick fast; come to a 
stand, come to a deadlock; hold the wolf by the ears.

render difficult; enmesh, encumber, embarrass, ravel, entangle; put a spoke 
in the wheel (hinder) [more]; lead a pretty dance.

[Adjectives] difficult, not easy, hard, tough; troublesome, toilsome, 
irksome; operose, laborious, onerous, arduous, Herculean, formidable; sooner 
said than done; more easily said than done.

difficult to deal with, hard to deal with; ill-conditioned, crabbed; not to 
be handled with kid gloves, not made with rose water.

awkward, unwieldy, unmanageable; intractable, stubborn (obstinate) [more]; 
perverse, refractory, plaguy, trying, thorny, rugged; knotted, knotty; 
invious; pathless, trackless; labyrinthine (convoluted) [more]; intricate, 
complicated (tangled) [more]; impracticable (impossible) [more]; not 
feasible [more]; desperate (hopeless) [more].

embarrassing, perplexing (uncertain) [more]; delicate, ticklish, critical; 
beset with difficulties, full of difficulties, surrounded by difficulties, 
entangled by difficulties, encompassed with difficulties.

under a difficulty; in a box; in difficulty, in hot water, in the suds, in a 
cleft stick, in a fix, in the wrong box, in a scrape, in deep water, in a 
fine pickle; in extremis; between two stools, between Scylla and Charybdis; 
surrounded by shoals, surrounded by breakers, surrounded by quicksands; at 
cross purposes; not out of the wood(s).

reduced to straits; hard pressed, sorely pressed; run hard; pinched, put to 
it, straitened; hard up, hard put to it, hard set; put to one's shifts; 
puzzled, at a loss, (uncertain) [more]; at the end of one's tether, at one's 
wit's end, at a nonplus, at a standstill; graveled, nonplussed, stranded, 
aground; stuck fast, set fast; up a tree, at bay, aux abois, driven into a 
corner, driven from pillar to post, driven to extremity, driven to one's 
wit's end, driven to the wall; au bout de son Latin; out of one's depth; 
thrown out.

accomplished with difficulty; hard-fought, hard-earned.

[Adverbs] with difficulty, with much ado; hardly; uphill; against the 
stream, against the grain; a rebours; invita Minerva; in the teeth of; at a 
pinch, upon a pinch; at long odds.

[Phrases] "ay there's the rub" [Hamlet]; hic labor hoc opus [Vergil]; things 
are come to a pretty pass, ab inconvenienti; ad astra per aspera; acun 
chemin de fleurs ne conduit a la gloire.



----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, amirib@...
Subject: [nbpc] Re: BURY schundle
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:09:19 -0400

**** the point ****

this is the main point for all to see clear as day:

      Keith and Matt and Louise are the only ones saying that we
      can not work together. They have been saying that for the last six
      years. That has been their entire practice towards uniting
      revolutionaries and winning the advanced to communism.

and to matt, again you should watch your mouth especially for matters you
were not there to observe. you talk as if you attended kimako's, which you
did not - the threats i received by manny and letti are not forgotten, you
want what they got comin? keep talkin'

joe

 >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
 >Date: Tue, 08 Jan 1980 15:47:13 -0500
 >
 >Cliff,
 >the "proof" is this:
 >"Reperations for the multi-national working class!!" -Joe Smith
 >
 >as I wrote below that line is a liquidation of the national question. This
 >shouild be
 >obvious to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Marxism-Leninism.
 >
 >again
 >since we have ideological disagreements, this being a case in point, and
 >since you
 >feel that our relationship was exploitive how are we going to work 
togther?
 >I am starting to think that you are avoiding the point.
 >Keith
 >
 >cliff smith wrote:
 >
 > > prove this:
 > >
 > > "liquidates the demand and operates under the unstated assumption that
 > > equality has already been achieved among the multi-natuional
 > > >working class- "
 > >
 > > "It makes no distinction between the minimum and maximum program but
 > > actually collapses the two."
 > >
 > > (hint--you cant cause its false.)
 > > reparations for oppressed nations &all oppressed peoples.
 > > cliff
 > >
 > > whens the next peoples campaign meeting?
 > >
 > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
 > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
 > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 21:39:59 -0500
 > > >
 > > >Joe,
 > > >yr slogan "Reperations for the multi-national working class!!" is
 > > >trotskyism.
 > > >U&S put forward and has been struggling for reperations for slavery 
for
 >the
 > > >afro-american nation. Your slogan liquidates the demand and operates
 >under
 > > >the
 > > >unstated assumption that equality has already been achieved among the
 > > >multi-natuional
 > > >working class- that's trotskyism. The slogan is militant reformism. It
 > > >makes no
 > > >distinction between the minimum and maximum program but actually
 >collapses
 > > >the two.
 > > >Maybe yr rrrrrrevolutionary practice should include studying
 > > >marxism-leninism.
 > > >
 > > >Keith
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >
 > > > > Reperations for the multi-national working class!!
 > > > >
 > > > > break that down
 > > > >
 > > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
 > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
 > > > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 19:00:16 -0500
 > > > > >
 > > > > >Joe,
 > > > > >you wrote:
 > > > > >
 > > > > > > "that is the headline the targum gave the essay (when i 
e-mailed
 >it
 > > >to
 > > > > >myself
 > > > > > > the title became such) which was written in response to david
 > > >horowitz's
 > > > > >10
 > > > > > > reasons why reparations for blacks is wrong... you were at
 >rutger's
 > > >last
 > > > > > > semester weren't you? didn't catch your position, where is it?
 >do
 > > >you
 > > > > >agree
 > > > > > > that your boss should rob you?"
 > > > > >
 > > > > >I'm not sure exactly what your saying, but as to my boss robbing 
me
 >or
 > > >any
 > > > > >boss
 > > > > >robbing anyone,  that it is not the issue of reparations. You are
 > > >confusing
 > > > > >two
 > > > > >distinct things. Reparations for afro-americacans are repeartions
 >for
 > > > > >chattel slavery.
 > > > > >Reparations is one of the ways to create equality among the
 > > >multi-national
 > > > > >working
 > > > > >calss so that unity is easier to achieve. If white workers
 >throughout
 > > >the
 > > > > >U&S got
 > > > > >repartions along with afro-american workers then the relationship
 >would
 > > >not
 > > > > >change.You
 > > > > >are making the demand for reparations a demand for socialism.
 > > > > >
 > > > > > > "i don't see any working class people in the capb, how is it
 >that u
 > > >do?"
 > > > > >
 > > > > >When the coalition existed it was primarily a working class
 > > >organization.
 > > > > >If you are
 > > > > >gloating about its demise I don't know what to tell you.
 > > > > >
 > > > > > > "you are off the wall to explain your arguements from such
 >basis."
 > > > > >
 > > > > >I don't know what that sentence is refering to.
 > > > > >
 > > > > > > you say:
 > > > > > > "Politics must lead production not the other way around."
 > > > > >
 > > > > >That's my line, I don't think that you answered it.
 > > > > >
 > > > > > > the differences in our ideologies are on the table, what else
 >needs
 > > >to
 > > > > >be
 > > > > > > done to put forward the newspaper collectively? the concept of
 >u&s
 > > >is to
 > > > > > > unite revolutionaries, and to win the advanced to communism! 
not
 >to
 > > >sit
 > > > > >in
 > > > > > > meetings until we all agree with your IDEAS, because we both
 >know
 > > >your
 > > > > > > practice is out to lunch...
 > > > > >
 > > > > >I raised the question of putting froward the paper collectively
 >very
 > > > > >specificly in the
 > > > > >piece to whihc you responded.
 > > > > >the issue is:
 > > > > >1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit
 >board
 > > >is
 > > > > >one trend.
 > > > > >2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your
 >brother.
 > > > > >
 > > > > >As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working
 > > >relationship
 > > > > >that you
 > > > > >feel is non-exploitative.
 > > > > >
 > > > > >I don't think that we both know my "practice is out to lunch". If
 >this
 > > >were
 > > > > >the case
 > > > > >than why would you be so eager to unite with it?
 > > > > >
 > > > > > > keith, the fact is i have seen you expell and disassociate
 >yourself
 > > >from
 > > > > > > more revolutionary/working class people than i've seen you
 >organize.
 > > >if
 > > > > >i
 > > > > > > didn't call amiri and set up a meeting, which you and matt had
 > > > > >cancelled, i
 > > > > > > don't see reason that there would be any production going on at
 >all.
 > > > > >
 > > > > >Actaully I don't think that you know much about my practice.
 > > > > >
 > > > > >  We re-scheduled the meeting because Baraka was not going to be 
in
 > > >town on
 > > > > >the
 > > > > >original date and you came to that meeting
 > > > > >.
 > > > > >I especially like the super subjective grandiose vision of yrself.
 >" i
 > > > > >don't see
 > > > > >reason that there would be any production going on at all."  Are
 >you
 > > >also
 > > > > >actaully the
 > > > > >emobiement of Reason that travels throughout history on whose
 >behalf
 > > >all
 > > > > >people are
 > > > > >acting?
 > > > > >
 > > > > > > the reason the same criticism is coming forward about the
 > > >republicans in
 > > > > >the
 > > > > > > peoples' campaign is because the situation has not been
 >rectified.
 > > >nor
 > > > > >have
 > > > > > > you offered anything more than a mere admittance to things
 > > >impossible to
 > > > > > > deny about your affiliation with such alliances with
 >republicans.
 > > >what
 > > > > >is
 > > > > > > your plan keith to rectify the situation, because as it is dim
 >is on
 > > >the
 > > > > > > housing authority - that is your bag.
 > > > > >
 > > > > >You can make the criticism untill the cows come home. Your 
proposal
 >for
 > > > > >rectification
 > > > > >is to expel the republicans and re-admit you.
 > > > > >I already sd that I agree republicans should be expelled from the
 > > > > >organization and
 > > > > >that SWORD should be united with in the People's Campaign.But I
 >think
 > > >that
 > > > > >it is more
 > > > > >important that the majority of people involved with the camapign
 > > >understand
 > > > > >what is
 > > > > >happening and what mistakes were made, otherwise they will just be
 > > >repeated
 > > > > >(maybe
 > > > > >with an ultra-left cover).
 > > > > >
 > > > > >
 > > > > >
 > > > > > > you say:
 > > > > > > "I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear
 > > > > >ideological
 > > > > > > leadership and bad political line which came to head in the
 >People's
 > > > > > > Campaign with support for bright and suppression of an
 > > >anti-republican
 > > > > > > political line and a lack of any revolutionary polirtical 
line."
 > > > > >
 > > > > > > but what are you going to do?
 > > > > >
 > > > > >I think that you are just repeating yrself here, but again maybe
 >I'm
 > > > > >blinded by
 > > > > >ignorance if so please cast the light. Otherwise see my reply
 >above.
 > > > > >
 > > > > > > who is going to lead the vote to announce all republicans must
 >be
 > > > > >removed
 > > > > > > and are not welcome in the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign
 >because
 > > >in
 > > > > >fact
 > > > > > > the racist republicans party is the most vicous opposition to
 >the
 > > > > >peoples
 > > > > > > productive development?
 > > > > >
 > > > > >I think that this is the same again.
 > > > > >But I do have a question. What is "the peoples productive
 >development"?
 > > > > >
 > > > > >I tried to answer the isues you raise, but since this reply is a
 >little
 > > > > >lengthy, I
 > > > > >would reiterate this point as being central:
 > > > > >
 > > > > >1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit
 >board
 > > >is a
 > > > > >single
 > > > > >trend.
 > > > > >2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your
 >brother.
 > > > > >
 > > > > >As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working
 > > >relationship
 > > > > >that you
 > > > > >feel is non-exploitative. First, editorial unity is not possible
 >until
 > > > > >there is a
 > > > > >change in political line.Secondly,  if the current relationship is
 > > >termed
 > > > > >"exploitative" then it must change. There's the problem. I have
 >made
 > > >more
 > > > > >than one
 > > > > >proposal for its solution. As far as I am concerned its on you.
 > > > > >
 > > > > >Keith
 > > > > >
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
 > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
 > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 11:17:24 -0500
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >To respond to Cliff's comments
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > "what is "unfortunate" about curtis' "confession"?  it is
 >like
 > > >fresh
 > > > > > > >air."
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >I agree. Curtis explaining his position brings clarity, I 
think
 > > >Matt's
 > > > > > > >meaning is that
 > > > > > > >it is unfortunate that Curtis is loyal to the Republicans
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > "while yr "exploring", you might "explore" yr own
 >responsibility
 > > >for
 > > > > > > >curtis'
 > > > > > > > > republican betrayal.  he comes from yr organization, the
 >CAPB,
 > > >from
 > > > > > > >which
 > > > > > > > > you (henson-style) embraced the right & expelled working
 >class
 > > > > >activists
 > > > > > > >&
 > > > > > > > > revolutionaries.  where is the CAPB now?"
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear
 > > > > >ideological
 > > > > > > >leadership
 > > > > > > >and bad political line which came to head in the People's
 >Campaign
 > > >with
 > > > > > > >support for
 > > > > > > >bright and suppression of an anti-republican political line 
and
 >a
 > > >lack
 > > > > >of
 > > > > > > >any
 > > > > > > >revolutionary polirtical line.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > "you might also "explore" how not only did yr NBPC not only
 >"not
 > > >put
 > > > > >out
 > > > > > > > > warnings of the republican danger", but encouraged curtis 
to
 >be
 > > > > > > >republican,
 > > > > > > > > created a "communist" "ideology" to support it, & in fact
 > > >yrselves
 > > > > > > >embraced
 > > > > > > > > republican partying"
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >This is true enough although it has already been criticized on
 > > >numerous
 > > > > > > >occassions
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > "recognize that curtis does not proclaim to "reform" the
 > > >republican
 > > > > > > >party,
 > > > > > > > > rather to "reform" its "image"--that is to find more 
liberal
 > > >marks
 > > > > >like
 > > > > > > > > yrself to con."
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >That is how Curtis stated his case and that certainly seems to
 >be
 > > >in
 > > > > >line
 > > > > > > >with the
 > > > > > > >compassionate conservativism strategy of Shundler/Bush and 
even
 >the
 > > > > >most
 > > > > > > >extreme right
 > > > > > > >wing section of the Buchanan reform party who even nominated
 >Foster
 > > >as
 > > > > > > >their VP an
 > > > > > > >afro-american woman. (although that shopuld also tell us
 >something
 > > > > >about
 > > > > > > >the
 > > > > > > >limitations of "woman" based ideology (ie."sisterhood" as well
 >as
 > > >black
 > > > > > > >nationalism)
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > ""finally", why shd it take my remarks to make you "serious
 > > >about
 > > > > >being
 > > > > > > > > self-reliant" (which you apparently aren't, judging from 
the
 > > >absence
 > > > > >of
 > > > > > > >the
 > > > > > > > > paper)?"
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >We don't want to exploit anyone. yr "remarks" made it clear to
 >me
 > > >that
 > > > > >you
 > > > > > > >feel that
 > > > > > > >the relationship we had as to production of the paper was
 > > > > >"exploitative"
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > "as far as the definitive relationship between U&S & SWORD"
 >we
 > > >stand
 > > > > > > >ready
 > > > > > > > > to produce the paper as a collective organizer & struggle
 > > >through
 > > > > >our
 > > > > > > > > differences.  as you apparently are uninterested in our
 > > >involvement
 > > > > >(&
 > > > > > > >even,
 > > > > > > > > apparently, in yr own production!), you shd, openly & above
 > > >board,
 > > > > >state
 > > > > > > >yr
 > > > > > > > > reasons for sectarian sabotage of the paper."
 > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >We have numerous ideological differences which in my opinion
 >make
 > > >joint
 > > > > > > >editorial work
 > > > > > > >impossible at the moment. (not to mention differences of 
style.
 >I
 > > >have
 > > > > >a
 > > > > > > >hard time
 > > > > > > >trusting anyone who doesn't believe in friendship for instance
 >and
 > > >also
 > > > > >a
 > > > > > > >hard time
 > > > > > > >working with people who do not believe in trust itself.  Those
 >are
 > > > > > > >ultra-ultra left
 > > > > > > >lines which really resolve as the essence of right-wing
 >ideology
 > > >see
 > > > > > > >Mussolini, G.
 > > > > > > >Gordon Liddy, the SA in Nazi Germany for examples).  Joint
 > > >editorial
 > > > > >work
 > > > > > > >is
 > > > > > > >impossible given our differences as we learned in practice.
 >That is
 > > >we
 > > > > > > >don't agree on
 > > > > > > >fundamental issues (in particular reparations (and as a sub
 >heading
 > > >the
 > > > > > > >inability to
 > > > > > > >be self-critical) and the woman question and  the idea of an
 > > > > >organiztaion
 > > > > > > >whose
 > > > > > > >ideology is sisterhood is not marxist, it is feminist)  and we
 > > >wasted
 > > > > >mor
 > > > > > > >than one
 > > > > > > >entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let that
 > > >continue
 > > > > > > >would have been
 > > > > > > >the actual sabatage. We discussed working together on
 >production
 > > >and in
 > > > > > > >fact the last
 > > > > > > >newspaper SWORD printed/photocopied. Since then  you have made
 >it
 > > >clear
 > > > > > > >that anything
 > > > > > > >short of joint work on the edit board constitutes an
 >exploititive
 > > > > > > >relationship. Since
 > > > > > > >we are not interetsed in knowingly exoploiting anyone nor are
 >we
 > > > > >interested
 > > > > > > >in having
 > > > > > > >an edit board of multifarious trends our current relationship
 >or
 > > >lack
 > > > > >of
 > > > > > > >one is on
 > > > > > > >you.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >As to the continued accusation of sabatage, it is something of
 >a
 > > >joke.
 > > > > >Joe
 > > > > > > >Smith
 > > > > > > >official spokesman of the oppressed first raised this
 >accusation in
 > > >his
 > > > > > > >essay "Let the
 > > > > > > >oppressed speak".  His charge is that Matt did not send HIM
 > > >articles to
 > > > > >lay
 > > > > > > >out
 > > > > > > >therefore the newspaper is being sabotaged. This is the same
 > > >muddled
 > > > > >super
 > > > > > > >subjective
 > > > > > > >logic as the title of his piece suggests. Joe has blown up his
 >own
 > > > > > > >subjectyivty to the
 > > > > > > >point that he belives that his subjectivity is  objectivity
 >(see
 > > >also
 > > > > >above
 > > > > > > >"working
 > > > > > > >class activists" expelled from Coalition. actually Cliff was
 > > >expelled
 > > > > >and
 > > > > > > >numerous
 > > > > > > >working calss activist remained in the organization but Cliff
 > > >believes
 > > > > >that
 > > > > > > >not only
 > > > > > > >does he represent the working calss but that he is the working
 > > >class)
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >Looking at the political line of SWORD especially around the
 >issue
 > > >of
 > > > > >the
 > > > > > > >paper and
 > > > > > > >its production we are actually seeing the ultra-left version 
of
 >the
 > > > > >"office
 > > > > > > >space
 > > > > > > >community center club house" line. That is placing production
 >and
 > > >the
 > > > > > > >productive
 > > > > > > >forces above politics. Joe nor Cliff is concerned with the
 > > >political
 > > > > >line
 > > > > > > >of the
 > > > > > > >newspaper just "come out with it" "where is it" "hurry up" new
 >and
 > > > > >improved
 > > > > > > >revolutionary newsaper faster stronger better than before.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >Joe wrote an article, that has been endlessly defended, that
 >stated
 > > > > >white
 > > > > > > >workers need
 > > > > > > >reparations along with afro-americans. I am not interested in
 > > >putting
 > > > > >out
 > > > > > > >that
 > > > > > > >political line. Nor am I interested in putting out political
 >lines
 > > > > > > >endorsing
 > > > > > > >"sisterhood".  Politics must lead production not the other way
 > > >around.
 > > > > > > >Production
 > > > > > > >before politics is the theory of sponatinety and the essence 
of
 > > > > >economism
 > > > > > > >(see "What
 > > > > > > >is To be done")
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >If SWORD wants to help put out the political line of the U&S
 > > >editorial
 > > > > > > >board than
 > > > > > > >let's go, but if they insist on being a part of the edit board
 >then
 > > > > >first
 > > > > > > >we must come
 > > > > > > >to ideological resolutions. From what has already been sd 
SWORD
 > > > > >believes
 > > > > > > >that helping
 > > > > > > >with production is exploitation. We certainly do not intend to
 > > >exploit
 > > > > > > >anyones
 > > > > > > >resources.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > "scientific socialists dismiss "luck".
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >Actually, luck is part of that which can not be understood at
 > > >present
 > > > > >or
 > > > > > > >predicted
 > > > > > > >with accuracy. For instance wheather at a rally.
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > unite, don't split
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >"....First of all, we are discussing party literature and its
 > > > > >subordination
 > > > > > > >to party
 > > > > > > >control. Everyone is free to write and say whatever he likes,
 > > >without
 > > > > > > >restrictions.
 > > > > > > >But every voluntary association (including the party) is also
 >free
 > > >to
 > > > > >expel
 > > > > > > >memers who
 > > > > > > >use the name of the party to advocate anti-party views. 
Freedom
 >of
 > > > > >speech
 > > > > > > >and of the
 > > > > > > >press must be complete. But then freedom of association must 
be
 > > > > >complete
 > > > > > > >too..."
 > > > > > > >(Lenin. "Party Organization and Party Literature" Collected
 >Works
 > > > > >Volume 10
 > > > > > > >p.47)
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >Keith
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 > > > > > > > > >CC: amirib@...
 > > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
 > > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 04:44:49
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes your
 > > >positions
 > > > > > > >right
 > > > > > > > > >about him & mine wrong.  To the extent that this is so, I
 >was
 > > >wrong
 > > > > >to
 > > > > > > >say
 > > > > > > > > >that you lied about his past.  However, we will certainly
 > > >continue
 > > > > >to
 > > > > > > > > >explore the role that BOL/SWORD played in pushing him back
 >into
 > > >the
 > > > > > > > > >Republican fold--as we will be struggling to win over many
 >many
 > > > > >working
 > > > > > > > > >class people from the Republican party. There was a time
 >not
 > > >too
 > > > > >long
 > > > > > > >ago
 > > > > > > > > >that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's Black Nation
 > > >together...As
 > > > > >we've
 > > > > > > > > >agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against Republican
 > > >danger,
 > > > > >etc.
 > > > > > > >on
 > > > > > > > > >the one hand, but on the other I maintain that dogmatism,
 >not
 > > > > > > > > >Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his democratic
 > > > > >tendencies.
 > > > > > > >&
 > > > > > > > > >to
 > > > > > > > > >the extent that they still exist, they will obviously run
 > > > > >completely
 > > > > > > > > >counter
 > > > > > > > > >to the objectives of the racist, imperialist,
 > > > > >not-about-to-be-reformed
 > > > > > > > > >Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.  (Curtis- I
 >say
 > > >this
 > > > > >to
 > > > > > > >you:
 > > > > > > > > >The less distress your embrace of the Republicans causes
 >you,
 > > >the
 > > > > >more
 > > > > > > >that
 > > > > > > > > >self interest has won over the interests of the people,
 >even
 > > >Sissy
 > > > > > > >Adams.)
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was exploiting
 >your
 > > > > > > >resources
 > > > > > > > > >directly following our "unity meeting" that made us more
 > > >serious
 > > > > >about
 > > > > > > > > >being
 > > > > > > > > >self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move.
 >(CS:..."Though
 > > >our
 > > > > > > >lay-out
 > > > > > > > > >and distribution resources are readily exploited.") As far
 >as
 > > >the
 > > > > > > > > >definitive
 > > > > > > > > >relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I would say
 >talk
 > > >to
 > > > > >AB,
 > > > > > > >try
 > > > > > > > > >to
 > > > > > > > > >organize another sit down, do what you need to do.
 >Otherwise,
 > > >good
 > > > > > > >luck
 > > > > > > > > >with the Union/housing battle.
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >-Matt
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >----Original Message Follows----
 > > > > > > > > >From: cliffsmith69@...
 > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
 > > > > > > > > >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
 > > > > > > > > >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union!
 > > > > > > > > >Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0000
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >New Brunswick Supports
 > > > > > > > > >Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over
 >Housing!
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all
 >labor,
 > > > > > > > > >organized or not, against the anti-worker, anti-democratic
 >New
 > > > > > > > > >Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union contractor,
 >NOVA
 > > > > > > > > >Development.
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, the
 > > > > >elimination
 > > > > > > > > >of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes,
 >with no
 > > > > > > > > >replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime
 >against
 > > >the
 > > > > > > > > >people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of
 >NBHA,
 > > >has
 > > > > > > > > >given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union
 > > >developer,
 > > > > >with
 > > > > > > > > >not a single worker from the community!
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union
 >labor,
 > > >and
 > > > > >for
 > > > > > > > > >community control over housing, in part through an
 >All-Elected,
 > > > > > > > > >Resident Housing Authority!
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >Union Jobs!
 > > > > > > > > >Community Employment!
 > > > > > > > > >Affordable Housing!
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >Contact Joe Smith
 > > > > > > > > >729.0390
 > > > > > > > > >can_bush@...
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 > > > > > > > > >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
 > > > > > > > > >
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 > > > > > > > > >
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Post ID:1826
Sender:"Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-19 10:52:51
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Taz
Message:

matt,
you were not there at kimakos so i don't see how you could make such 
statements about it. also, i do not understand your post and what it has to 
do with any of the issues that are being discussed. this is a complete 
disregard for the discussion which cannot be productive and reach any sort 
of unity, agreement, or be working towards those ends if this is your 
response. are you completely dismissing all the points that  joe raises as 
invalid by refusing to answer them and instead writing this post? is this 
the end of the discussion on you part? cause i am not satisfied with the 
fact that you have afew times adressed joe's behavior at kimakos of which 
you were not there. so far i have been kicked out of the people's campaign 
and now not apparently not allowed to do work for U&S. i am ready and 
willing to do work, but i am being kept from doing so by the U & S edit 
board of which yourself, keith and louise are on (also part of the NBPC of 
which we were expelled)  maura is allowed to do work because she has never 
declared affiliation with SWORD, although she is part of S&S and did come to 
the meetings as a representative of it.  If the crux of the isuue of our 
involvement on the paper lies in idealogical differences, then why is she 
invited to do work as a part of S&S which presented 1 of the 2 analysis's 
that U&S did not agree with? that is bullshit. and i do see it as sabotage 
to develop a practice of expelling and excluding revolutionaries from doing 
work, which seems to have been going on for "six years" and which i myself 
have experienced multiple times since have been active. i also see these as 
valid points and a valuable discussion working towards a productive end that 
do not warrant a response of nonsense words on your part. what about you?

>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Taz
>Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:51:37
>
>Joe- you are a walking paradox.  Amazing.
>
>
>Relatedly:
>Pick one that suits you (I like "pretty kettle of fish", or "not made with
>rose water")
>
>
>V. WORDS RELATING TO THE VOLUNTARY POWERS; INDIVIDUAL VOLITION
>IV. ANTAGONISM
>1. Conditional antagonism
>Difficulty.
>
>[Antonyms: facility.]
>
>[Nouns] difficulty; hardness; impracticability (impossibility) [more]; 
>tough
>work, hard work, uphill work; hard task, Herculean task, Augean task; task
>of Sisyphus, Sisyphean labor, tough job, teaser, rasper, dead lift.
>
>dilemma, embarrassment; deadlock; perplexity (uncertainty) [more];
>intricacy; entanglement [more]; cross fire; awkwardness, delicacy, ticklish
>card to play, knot, Gordian knot, dignus vindice nodus, net, meshes, maze;
>coil (convolution) [more]; crooked path; involvement.
>
>nice point, delicate point, subtle point, knotty point; vexed question,
>vexata quaestio, poser; puzzle (riddle) [more]; paradox; hard nut to crack,
>nut to crack; bone to pick, crux, pons asinorum, where the shoe pinches.
>
>nonplus, quandary, strait, pass, pinch, pretty pass, stress, brunt; 
>critical
>situation, crisis; trial, rub, emergency, exigency, scramble.
>
>scrape, hobble, slough, quagmire, hot water, hornet's nest; sea of 
>troubles,
>peck of troubles; pretty kettle of fish; pickle, stew, imbroglio, mess, 
>ado;
>false position.
>
>set fast, stand; deadlock, dead set.
>
>fix, horns of a dilemma, cul de sac; hitch; stumblng block (hindrance)
>[more].
>
>[Verbs] be difficult; run one hard, go against the grain, try one's
>patience, put one out; put to one's shifts, put to one's wit's end; go hard
>with one, try one; pose, perplex (uncertain) [more]; bother, nonplus,
>gravel, bring to a deadlock; be impossible [more]; be in the way of 
>(hinder)
>[more].
>
>meet with difficulties; labor under difficulties; get into difficulties;
>plunge into difficulties; struggle with difficulties; contend with
>difficulties; grapple with difficulties; labor under a disadvantage; be in
>difficulty
>
>fish in troubled waters, buffet the waves, swim against the stream, scud
>under bare poles.
>
>have much ado with, have a hard time of it; come to the push, come to the
>pinch; bear the brunt.
>
>grope in the dark, lose one's way, weave a tangled web, walk among eggs.
>
>get into a scrape; bring a hornet's nest about one's ears; be put to one's
>shifts; flounder, boggle, struggle; not know which way to turn (uncertain)
>[more]; perdre son Latin; stick at, stick in the mud, stick fast; come to a
>stand, come to a deadlock; hold the wolf by the ears.
>
>render difficult; enmesh, encumber, embarrass, ravel, entangle; put a spoke
>in the wheel (hinder) [more]; lead a pretty dance.
>
>[Adjectives] difficult, not easy, hard, tough; troublesome, toilsome,
>irksome; operose, laborious, onerous, arduous, Herculean, formidable; 
>sooner
>said than done; more easily said than done.
>
>difficult to deal with, hard to deal with; ill-conditioned, crabbed; not to
>be handled with kid gloves, not made with rose water.
>
>awkward, unwieldy, unmanageable; intractable, stubborn (obstinate) [more];
>perverse, refractory, plaguy, trying, thorny, rugged; knotted, knotty;
>invious; pathless, trackless; labyrinthine (convoluted) [more]; intricate,
>complicated (tangled) [more]; impracticable (impossible) [more]; not
>feasible [more]; desperate (hopeless) [more].
>
>embarrassing, perplexing (uncertain) [more]; delicate, ticklish, critical;
>beset with difficulties, full of difficulties, surrounded by difficulties,
>entangled by difficulties, encompassed with difficulties.
>
>under a difficulty; in a box; in difficulty, in hot water, in the suds, in 
>a
>cleft stick, in a fix, in the wrong box, in a scrape, in deep water, in a
>fine pickle; in extremis; between two stools, between Scylla and Charybdis;
>surrounded by shoals, surrounded by breakers, surrounded by quicksands; at
>cross purposes; not out of the wood(s).
>
>reduced to straits; hard pressed, sorely pressed; run hard; pinched, put to
>it, straitened; hard up, hard put to it, hard set; put to one's shifts;
>puzzled, at a loss, (uncertain) [more]; at the end of one's tether, at 
>one's
>wit's end, at a nonplus, at a standstill; graveled, nonplussed, stranded,
>aground; stuck fast, set fast; up a tree, at bay, aux abois, driven into a
>corner, driven from pillar to post, driven to extremity, driven to one's
>wit's end, driven to the wall; au bout de son Latin; out of one's depth;
>thrown out.
>
>accomplished with difficulty; hard-fought, hard-earned.
>
>[Adverbs] with difficulty, with much ado; hardly; uphill; against the
>stream, against the grain; a rebours; invita Minerva; in the teeth of; at a
>pinch, upon a pinch; at long odds.
>
>[Phrases] "ay there's the rub" [Hamlet]; hic labor hoc opus [Vergil]; 
>things
>are come to a pretty pass, ab inconvenienti; ad astra per aspera; acun
>chemin de fleurs ne conduit a la gloire.
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, amirib@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: BURY schundle
>Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:09:19 -0400
>
>**** the point ****
>
>this is the main point for all to see clear as day:
>
>       Keith and Matt and Louise are the only ones saying that we
>       can not work together. They have been saying that for the last six
>       years. That has been their entire practice towards uniting
>       revolutionaries and winning the advanced to communism.
>
>and to matt, again you should watch your mouth especially for matters you
>were not there to observe. you talk as if you attended kimako's, which you
>did not - the threats i received by manny and letti are not forgotten, you
>want what they got comin? keep talkin'
>
>joe
>
>  >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
>  >Date: Tue, 08 Jan 1980 15:47:13 -0500
>  >
>  >Cliff,
>  >the "proof" is this:
>  >"Reperations for the multi-national working class!!" -Joe Smith
>  >
>  >as I wrote below that line is a liquidation of the national question. 
>This
>  >shouild be
>  >obvious to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Marxism-Leninism.
>  >
>  >again
>  >since we have ideological disagreements, this being a case in point, and
>  >since you
>  >feel that our relationship was exploitive how are we going to work
>togther?
>  >I am starting to think that you are avoiding the point.
>  >Keith
>  >
>  >cliff smith wrote:
>  >
>  > > prove this:
>  > >
>  > > "liquidates the demand and operates under the unstated assumption 
>that
>  > > equality has already been achieved among the multi-natuional
>  > > >working class- "
>  > >
>  > > "It makes no distinction between the minimum and maximum program but
>  > > actually collapses the two."
>  > >
>  > > (hint--you cant cause its false.)
>  > > reparations for oppressed nations &all oppressed peoples.
>  > > cliff
>  > >
>  > > whens the next peoples campaign meeting?
>  > >
>  > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>  > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
>  > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 21:39:59 -0500
>  > > >
>  > > >Joe,
>  > > >yr slogan "Reperations for the multi-national working class!!" is
>  > > >trotskyism.
>  > > >U&S put forward and has been struggling for reperations for slavery
>for
>  >the
>  > > >afro-american nation. Your slogan liquidates the demand and operates
>  >under
>  > > >the
>  > > >unstated assumption that equality has already been achieved among 
>the
>  > > >multi-natuional
>  > > >working class- that's trotskyism. The slogan is militant reformism. 
>It
>  > > >makes no
>  > > >distinction between the minimum and maximum program but actually
>  >collapses
>  > > >the two.
>  > > >Maybe yr rrrrrrevolutionary practice should include studying
>  > > >marxism-leninism.
>  > > >
>  > > >Keith
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > > Reperations for the multi-national working class!!
>  > > > >
>  > > > > break that down
>  > > > >
>  > > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>  > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
>  > > > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 19:00:16 -0500
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >Joe,
>  > > > > >you wrote:
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > > "that is the headline the targum gave the essay (when i
>e-mailed
>  >it
>  > > >to
>  > > > > >myself
>  > > > > > > the title became such) which was written in response to david
>  > > >horowitz's
>  > > > > >10
>  > > > > > > reasons why reparations for blacks is wrong... you were at
>  >rutger's
>  > > >last
>  > > > > > > semester weren't you? didn't catch your position, where is 
>it?
>  >do
>  > > >you
>  > > > > >agree
>  > > > > > > that your boss should rob you?"
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >I'm not sure exactly what your saying, but as to my boss robbing
>me
>  >or
>  > > >any
>  > > > > >boss
>  > > > > >robbing anyone,  that it is not the issue of reparations. You 
>are
>  > > >confusing
>  > > > > >two
>  > > > > >distinct things. Reparations for afro-americacans are 
>repeartions
>  >for
>  > > > > >chattel slavery.
>  > > > > >Reparations is one of the ways to create equality among the
>  > > >multi-national
>  > > > > >working
>  > > > > >calss so that unity is easier to achieve. If white workers
>  >throughout
>  > > >the
>  > > > > >U&S got
>  > > > > >repartions along with afro-american workers then the 
>relationship
>  >would
>  > > >not
>  > > > > >change.You
>  > > > > >are making the demand for reparations a demand for socialism.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > > "i don't see any working class people in the capb, how is it
>  >that u
>  > > >do?"
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >When the coalition existed it was primarily a working class
>  > > >organization.
>  > > > > >If you are
>  > > > > >gloating about its demise I don't know what to tell you.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > > "you are off the wall to explain your arguements from such
>  >basis."
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >I don't know what that sentence is refering to.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > > you say:
>  > > > > > > "Politics must lead production not the other way around."
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >That's my line, I don't think that you answered it.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > > the differences in our ideologies are on the table, what else
>  >needs
>  > > >to
>  > > > > >be
>  > > > > > > done to put forward the newspaper collectively? the concept 
>of
>  >u&s
>  > > >is to
>  > > > > > > unite revolutionaries, and to win the advanced to communism!
>not
>  >to
>  > > >sit
>  > > > > >in
>  > > > > > > meetings until we all agree with your IDEAS, because we both
>  >know
>  > > >your
>  > > > > > > practice is out to lunch...
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >I raised the question of putting froward the paper collectively
>  >very
>  > > > > >specificly in the
>  > > > > >piece to whihc you responded.
>  > > > > >the issue is:
>  > > > > >1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit
>  >board
>  > > >is
>  > > > > >one trend.
>  > > > > >2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your
>  >brother.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working
>  > > >relationship
>  > > > > >that you
>  > > > > >feel is non-exploitative.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >I don't think that we both know my "practice is out to lunch". 
>If
>  >this
>  > > >were
>  > > > > >the case
>  > > > > >than why would you be so eager to unite with it?
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > > keith, the fact is i have seen you expell and disassociate
>  >yourself
>  > > >from
>  > > > > > > more revolutionary/working class people than i've seen you
>  >organize.
>  > > >if
>  > > > > >i
>  > > > > > > didn't call amiri and set up a meeting, which you and matt 
>had
>  > > > > >cancelled, i
>  > > > > > > don't see reason that there would be any production going on 
>at
>  >all.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >Actaully I don't think that you know much about my practice.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >  We re-scheduled the meeting because Baraka was not going to be
>in
>  > > >town on
>  > > > > >the
>  > > > > >original date and you came to that meeting
>  > > > > >.
>  > > > > >I especially like the super subjective grandiose vision of 
>yrself.
>  >" i
>  > > > > >don't see
>  > > > > >reason that there would be any production going on at all."  Are
>  >you
>  > > >also
>  > > > > >actaully the
>  > > > > >emobiement of Reason that travels throughout history on whose
>  >behalf
>  > > >all
>  > > > > >people are
>  > > > > >acting?
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > > the reason the same criticism is coming forward about the
>  > > >republicans in
>  > > > > >the
>  > > > > > > peoples' campaign is because the situation has not been
>  >rectified.
>  > > >nor
>  > > > > >have
>  > > > > > > you offered anything more than a mere admittance to things
>  > > >impossible to
>  > > > > > > deny about your affiliation with such alliances with
>  >republicans.
>  > > >what
>  > > > > >is
>  > > > > > > your plan keith to rectify the situation, because as it is 
>dim
>  >is on
>  > > >the
>  > > > > > > housing authority - that is your bag.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >You can make the criticism untill the cows come home. Your
>proposal
>  >for
>  > > > > >rectification
>  > > > > >is to expel the republicans and re-admit you.
>  > > > > >I already sd that I agree republicans should be expelled from 
>the
>  > > > > >organization and
>  > > > > >that SWORD should be united with in the People's Campaign.But I
>  >think
>  > > >that
>  > > > > >it is more
>  > > > > >important that the majority of people involved with the camapign
>  > > >understand
>  > > > > >what is
>  > > > > >happening and what mistakes were made, otherwise they will just 
>be
>  > > >repeated
>  > > > > >(maybe
>  > > > > >with an ultra-left cover).
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > > you say:
>  > > > > > > "I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear
>  > > > > >ideological
>  > > > > > > leadership and bad political line which came to head in the
>  >People's
>  > > > > > > Campaign with support for bright and suppression of an
>  > > >anti-republican
>  > > > > > > political line and a lack of any revolutionary polirtical
>line."
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > > but what are you going to do?
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >I think that you are just repeating yrself here, but again maybe
>  >I'm
>  > > > > >blinded by
>  > > > > >ignorance if so please cast the light. Otherwise see my reply
>  >above.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > > who is going to lead the vote to announce all republicans 
>must
>  >be
>  > > > > >removed
>  > > > > > > and are not welcome in the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign
>  >because
>  > > >in
>  > > > > >fact
>  > > > > > > the racist republicans party is the most vicous opposition to
>  >the
>  > > > > >peoples
>  > > > > > > productive development?
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >I think that this is the same again.
>  > > > > >But I do have a question. What is "the peoples productive
>  >development"?
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >I tried to answer the isues you raise, but since this reply is a
>  >little
>  > > > > >lengthy, I
>  > > > > >would reiterate this point as being central:
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit
>  >board
>  > > >is a
>  > > > > >single
>  > > > > >trend.
>  > > > > >2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your
>  >brother.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working
>  > > >relationship
>  > > > > >that you
>  > > > > >feel is non-exploitative. First, editorial unity is not possible
>  >until
>  > > > > >there is a
>  > > > > >change in political line.Secondly,  if the current relationship 
>is
>  > > >termed
>  > > > > >"exploitative" then it must change. There's the problem. I have
>  >made
>  > > >more
>  > > > > >than one
>  > > > > >proposal for its solution. As far as I am concerned its on you.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >Keith
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>  > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
>  > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 11:17:24 -0500
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >To respond to Cliff's comments
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > "what is "unfortunate" about curtis' "confession"?  it is
>  >like
>  > > >fresh
>  > > > > > > >air."
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >I agree. Curtis explaining his position brings clarity, I
>think
>  > > >Matt's
>  > > > > > > >meaning is that
>  > > > > > > >it is unfortunate that Curtis is loyal to the Republicans
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > "while yr "exploring", you might "explore" yr own
>  >responsibility
>  > > >for
>  > > > > > > >curtis'
>  > > > > > > > > republican betrayal.  he comes from yr organization, the
>  >CAPB,
>  > > >from
>  > > > > > > >which
>  > > > > > > > > you (henson-style) embraced the right & expelled working
>  >class
>  > > > > >activists
>  > > > > > > >&
>  > > > > > > > > revolutionaries.  where is the CAPB now?"
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of clear
>  > > > > >ideological
>  > > > > > > >leadership
>  > > > > > > >and bad political line which came to head in the People's
>  >Campaign
>  > > >with
>  > > > > > > >support for
>  > > > > > > >bright and suppression of an anti-republican political line
>and
>  >a
>  > > >lack
>  > > > > >of
>  > > > > > > >any
>  > > > > > > >revolutionary polirtical line.
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > "you might also "explore" how not only did yr NBPC not 
>only
>  >"not
>  > > >put
>  > > > > >out
>  > > > > > > > > warnings of the republican danger", but encouraged curtis
>to
>  >be
>  > > > > > > >republican,
>  > > > > > > > > created a "communist" "ideology" to support it, & in fact
>  > > >yrselves
>  > > > > > > >embraced
>  > > > > > > > > republican partying"
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >This is true enough although it has already been criticized 
>on
>  > > >numerous
>  > > > > > > >occassions
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > "recognize that curtis does not proclaim to "reform" the
>  > > >republican
>  > > > > > > >party,
>  > > > > > > > > rather to "reform" its "image"--that is to find more
>liberal
>  > > >marks
>  > > > > >like
>  > > > > > > > > yrself to con."
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >That is how Curtis stated his case and that certainly seems 
>to
>  >be
>  > > >in
>  > > > > >line
>  > > > > > > >with the
>  > > > > > > >compassionate conservativism strategy of Shundler/Bush and
>even
>  >the
>  > > > > >most
>  > > > > > > >extreme right
>  > > > > > > >wing section of the Buchanan reform party who even nominated
>  >Foster
>  > > >as
>  > > > > > > >their VP an
>  > > > > > > >afro-american woman. (although that shopuld also tell us
>  >something
>  > > > > >about
>  > > > > > > >the
>  > > > > > > >limitations of "woman" based ideology (ie."sisterhood" as 
>well
>  >as
>  > > >black
>  > > > > > > >nationalism)
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > ""finally", why shd it take my remarks to make you 
>"serious
>  > > >about
>  > > > > >being
>  > > > > > > > > self-reliant" (which you apparently aren't, judging from
>the
>  > > >absence
>  > > > > >of
>  > > > > > > >the
>  > > > > > > > > paper)?"
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >We don't want to exploit anyone. yr "remarks" made it clear 
>to
>  >me
>  > > >that
>  > > > > >you
>  > > > > > > >feel that
>  > > > > > > >the relationship we had as to production of the paper was
>  > > > > >"exploitative"
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > "as far as the definitive relationship between U&S & 
>SWORD"
>  >we
>  > > >stand
>  > > > > > > >ready
>  > > > > > > > > to produce the paper as a collective organizer & struggle
>  > > >through
>  > > > > >our
>  > > > > > > > > differences.  as you apparently are uninterested in our
>  > > >involvement
>  > > > > >(&
>  > > > > > > >even,
>  > > > > > > > > apparently, in yr own production!), you shd, openly & 
>above
>  > > >board,
>  > > > > >state
>  > > > > > > >yr
>  > > > > > > > > reasons for sectarian sabotage of the paper."
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >We have numerous ideological differences which in my opinion
>  >make
>  > > >joint
>  > > > > > > >editorial work
>  > > > > > > >impossible at the moment. (not to mention differences of
>style.
>  >I
>  > > >have
>  > > > > >a
>  > > > > > > >hard time
>  > > > > > > >trusting anyone who doesn't believe in friendship for 
>instance
>  >and
>  > > >also
>  > > > > >a
>  > > > > > > >hard time
>  > > > > > > >working with people who do not believe in trust itself.  
>Those
>  >are
>  > > > > > > >ultra-ultra left
>  > > > > > > >lines which really resolve as the essence of right-wing
>  >ideology
>  > > >see
>  > > > > > > >Mussolini, G.
>  > > > > > > >Gordon Liddy, the SA in Nazi Germany for examples).  Joint
>  > > >editorial
>  > > > > >work
>  > > > > > > >is
>  > > > > > > >impossible given our differences as we learned in practice.
>  >That is
>  > > >we
>  > > > > > > >don't agree on
>  > > > > > > >fundamental issues (in particular reparations (and as a sub
>  >heading
>  > > >the
>  > > > > > > >inability to
>  > > > > > > >be self-critical) and the woman question and  the idea of an
>  > > > > >organiztaion
>  > > > > > > >whose
>  > > > > > > >ideology is sisterhood is not marxist, it is feminist)  and 
>we
>  > > >wasted
>  > > > > >mor
>  > > > > > > >than one
>  > > > > > > >entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let 
>that
>  > > >continue
>  > > > > > > >would have been
>  > > > > > > >the actual sabatage. We discussed working together on
>  >production
>  > > >and in
>  > > > > > > >fact the last
>  > > > > > > >newspaper SWORD printed/photocopied. Since then  you have 
>made
>  >it
>  > > >clear
>  > > > > > > >that anything
>  > > > > > > >short of joint work on the edit board constitutes an
>  >exploititive
>  > > > > > > >relationship. Since
>  > > > > > > >we are not interetsed in knowingly exoploiting anyone nor 
>are
>  >we
>  > > > > >interested
>  > > > > > > >in having
>  > > > > > > >an edit board of multifarious trends our current 
>relationship
>  >or
>  > > >lack
>  > > > > >of
>  > > > > > > >one is on
>  > > > > > > >you.
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >As to the continued accusation of sabatage, it is something 
>of
>  >a
>  > > >joke.
>  > > > > >Joe
>  > > > > > > >Smith
>  > > > > > > >official spokesman of the oppressed first raised this
>  >accusation in
>  > > >his
>  > > > > > > >essay "Let the
>  > > > > > > >oppressed speak".  His charge is that Matt did not send HIM
>  > > >articles to
>  > > > > >lay
>  > > > > > > >out
>  > > > > > > >therefore the newspaper is being sabotaged. This is the same
>  > > >muddled
>  > > > > >super
>  > > > > > > >subjective
>  > > > > > > >logic as the title of his piece suggests. Joe has blown up 
>his
>  >own
>  > > > > > > >subjectyivty to the
>  > > > > > > >point that he belives that his subjectivity is  objectivity
>  >(see
>  > > >also
>  > > > > >above
>  > > > > > > >"working
>  > > > > > > >class activists" expelled from Coalition. actually Cliff was
>  > > >expelled
>  > > > > >and
>  > > > > > > >numerous
>  > > > > > > >working calss activist remained in the organization but 
>Cliff
>  > > >believes
>  > > > > >that
>  > > > > > > >not only
>  > > > > > > >does he represent the working calss but that he is the 
>working
>  > > >class)
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >Looking at the political line of SWORD especially around the
>  >issue
>  > > >of
>  > > > > >the
>  > > > > > > >paper and
>  > > > > > > >its production we are actually seeing the ultra-left version
>of
>  >the
>  > > > > >"office
>  > > > > > > >space
>  > > > > > > >community center club house" line. That is placing 
>production
>  >and
>  > > >the
>  > > > > > > >productive
>  > > > > > > >forces above politics. Joe nor Cliff is concerned with the
>  > > >political
>  > > > > >line
>  > > > > > > >of the
>  > > > > > > >newspaper just "come out with it" "where is it" "hurry up" 
>new
>  >and
>  > > > > >improved
>  > > > > > > >revolutionary newsaper faster stronger better than before.
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >Joe wrote an article, that has been endlessly defended, that
>  >stated
>  > > > > >white
>  > > > > > > >workers need
>  > > > > > > >reparations along with afro-americans. I am not interested 
>in
>  > > >putting
>  > > > > >out
>  > > > > > > >that
>  > > > > > > >political line. Nor am I interested in putting out political
>  >lines
>  > > > > > > >endorsing
>  > > > > > > >"sisterhood".  Politics must lead production not the other 
>way
>  > > >around.
>  > > > > > > >Production
>  > > > > > > >before politics is the theory of sponatinety and the essence
>of
>  > > > > >economism
>  > > > > > > >(see "What
>  > > > > > > >is To be done")
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >If SWORD wants to help put out the political line of the U&S
>  > > >editorial
>  > > > > > > >board than
>  > > > > > > >let's go, but if they insist on being a part of the edit 
>board
>  >then
>  > > > > >first
>  > > > > > > >we must come
>  > > > > > > >to ideological resolutions. From what has already been sd
>SWORD
>  > > > > >believes
>  > > > > > > >that helping
>  > > > > > > >with production is exploitation. We certainly do not intend 
>to
>  > > >exploit
>  > > > > > > >anyones
>  > > > > > > >resources.
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > "scientific socialists dismiss "luck".
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >Actually, luck is part of that which can not be understood 
>at
>  > > >present
>  > > > > >or
>  > > > > > > >predicted
>  > > > > > > >with accuracy. For instance wheather at a rally.
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > unite, don't split
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >"....First of all, we are discussing party literature and 
>its
>  > > > > >subordination
>  > > > > > > >to party
>  > > > > > > >control. Everyone is free to write and say whatever he 
>likes,
>  > > >without
>  > > > > > > >restrictions.
>  > > > > > > >But every voluntary association (including the party) is 
>also
>  >free
>  > > >to
>  > > > > >expel
>  > > > > > > >memers who
>  > > > > > > >use the name of the party to advocate anti-party views.
>Freedom
>  >of
>  > > > > >speech
>  > > > > > > >and of the
>  > > > > > > >press must be complete. But then freedom of association must
>be
>  > > > > >complete
>  > > > > > > >too..."
>  > > > > > > >(Lenin. "Party Organization and Party Literature" Collected
>  >Works
>  > > > > >Volume 10
>  > > > > > > >p.47)
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >Keith
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  > > > > > > > > >CC: amirib@...
>  > > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
>  > > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 04:44:49
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes 
>your
>  > > >positions
>  > > > > > > >right
>  > > > > > > > > >about him & mine wrong.  To the extent that this is so, 
>I
>  >was
>  > > >wrong
>  > > > > >to
>  > > > > > > >say
>  > > > > > > > > >that you lied about his past.  However, we will 
>certainly
>  > > >continue
>  > > > > >to
>  > > > > > > > > >explore the role that BOL/SWORD played in pushing him 
>back
>  >into
>  > > >the
>  > > > > > > > > >Republican fold--as we will be struggling to win over 
>many
>  >many
>  > > > > >working
>  > > > > > > > > >class people from the Republican party. There was a time
>  >not
>  > > >too
>  > > > > >long
>  > > > > > > >ago
>  > > > > > > > > >that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's Black Nation
>  > > >together...As
>  > > > > >we've
>  > > > > > > > > >agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against 
>Republican
>  > > >danger,
>  > > > > >etc.
>  > > > > > > >on
>  > > > > > > > > >the one hand, but on the other I maintain that 
>dogmatism,
>  >not
>  > > > > > > > > >Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his 
>democratic
>  > > > > >tendencies.
>  > > > > > > >&
>  > > > > > > > > >to
>  > > > > > > > > >the extent that they still exist, they will obviously 
>run
>  > > > > >completely
>  > > > > > > > > >counter
>  > > > > > > > > >to the objectives of the racist, imperialist,
>  > > > > >not-about-to-be-reformed
>  > > > > > > > > >Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.  (Curtis- 
>I
>  >say
>  > > >this
>  > > > > >to
>  > > > > > > >you:
>  > > > > > > > > >The less distress your embrace of the Republicans causes
>  >you,
>  > > >the
>  > > > > >more
>  > > > > > > >that
>  > > > > > > > > >self interest has won over the interests of the people,
>  >even
>  > > >Sissy
>  > > > > > > >Adams.)
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was 
>exploiting
>  >your
>  > > > > > > >resources
>  > > > > > > > > >directly following our "unity meeting" that made us more
>  > > >serious
>  > > > > >about
>  > > > > > > > > >being
>  > > > > > > > > >self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move.
>  >(CS:..."Though
>  > > >our
>  > > > > > > >lay-out
>  > > > > > > > > >and distribution resources are readily exploited.") As 
>far
>  >as
>  > > >the
>  > > > > > > > > >definitive
>  > > > > > > > > >relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I would 
>say
>  >talk
>  > > >to
>  > > > > >AB,
>  > > > > > > >try
>  > > > > > > > > >to
>  > > > > > > > > >organize another sit down, do what you need to do.
>  >Otherwise,
>  > > >good
>  > > > > > > >luck
>  > > > > > > > > >with the Union/housing battle.
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >-Matt
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >----Original Message Follows----
>  > > > > > > > > >From: cliffsmith69@...
>  > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>  > > > > > > > > >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>  > > > > > > > > >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union!
>  > > > > > > > > >Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0000
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >New Brunswick Supports
>  > > > > > > > > >Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over
>  >Housing!
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and all
>  >labor,
>  > > > > > > > > >organized or not, against the anti-worker, 
>anti-democratic
>  >New
>  > > > > > > > > >Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union 
>contractor,
>  >NOVA
>  > > > > > > > > >Development.
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, 
>the
>  > > > > >elimination
>  > > > > > > > > >of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes,
>  >with no
>  > > > > > > > > >replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime
>  >against
>  > > >the
>  > > > > > > > > >people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director of
>  >NBHA,
>  > > >has
>  > > > > > > > > >given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union
>  > > >developer,
>  > > > > >with
>  > > > > > > > > >not a single worker from the community!
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union
>  >labor,
>  > > >and
>  > > > > >for
>  > > > > > > > > >community control over housing, in part through an
>  >All-Elected,
>  > > > > > > > > >Resident Housing Authority!
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >Union Jobs!
>  > > > > > > > > >Community Employment!
>  > > > > > > > > >Affordable Housing!
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >Contact Joe Smith
>  > > > > > > > > >729.0390
>  > > > > > > > > >can_bush@...
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  > > > > > > > > >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  > > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > >
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>  > > > > > > > >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1827
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-19 12:29:54
Subject:Fwd: [motherlandcollective] no seat in the Park - Art Installation in Military Park
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "jub dow" <bigjuba@...>
Reply-To: lpccd@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [lpccd] Fwd: [motherlandcollective] no seat in the Park - Art 
Installation in Military Park
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:03:59

.....this is art at it's best.......cultural revolutionary!!!....check it 
out...when you come to downtown newark.......



>From: Elisabeth Ssenjovu Reply-To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com To: 
>motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com Subject: [motherlandcollective] no 
>seat in the Park - Art Installation in Military Park Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 
>06:23:15 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>FOR FURTHER INFORMATION:
>
>ELISABETH SSENJOVU: 973-274-1660 NEWARK ARTS COUNCIL NEWS 17 Academy 
>Street, Suite 1104, Newark, NJ 07102
>
>
>For Immediate Release 7/12/01 / Newark, NJ
>
>no seat in the Park:
>
>Newark Arts Council Presents Temporary Art Installation
>
>in Downtown Newarks Military Park
>
>
>
>A temporary art installation designed and fabricated by artist roycrosse 
>and presented by the Newark Arts Council will open on Thursday, July 26 at 
>4:00PM in Military Park in the Downtown Newark Arts District.
>
>The exhibit will consist of a series of 15 miniature chairs suspended 10-15 
>feet above the ground. The lightweight chairs are constructed from wire and 
>fabric in bold, primary colors and are approximately 23high x 12wide x 
>12deep. The exhibition in Military Park is scheduled to run through 
>September, 2001.
>
>
>
>The objectives of the exhibition are to initiate community dialogue 
>regarding the use and accessibility of public space in the urban landscape; 
>to encourage collaboration through the arts between the business and 
>philanthropic communities and the community at large; to create an arts 
>destination for new City visitors; and to establish City-wide public art 
>programs creating opportunities for regional artists. A conversation with 
>roycrosse was held at the artists studio at 50 Columbia Street where he 
>presented the concept and a model to supporters.
>
>
>
>The concept of exploring issues of urban development through art is a 
>fantastic way to stimulate enthusiasm and interest in both art and our 
>immediate surroundings. Supporting the work of artists not only welcomes 
>new artists into our community but also encourages artists who are 
>currently living here, to stay, stated roycrosse at the studio 
>presentation.
>
>
>
>Supporters and sponsors of this innovative public art initiative include 
>Rutgers Institute on Ethnicity, Culture and the Modern Experience; Newark 
>Downtown District; Iandor Fine Arts Gallery; Aljira, a Center for 
>Contemporary Art; Tree-Tech; Greater Newark Conservancy, Inc. and City 
>Without Walls Gallery.
>
>
>
>Dr. Clement A. Price, Director of Rutgers Institute on Ethnicity, Culture 
>and the Modern Experience, quoted "This is fascinating and, I believe, an 
>important way to encourage our fellow citizens to consider the unique role 
>of the artist and artistic imagination in public places. Newark has so many 
>public areas where artists like roycrosse can help nourish our civic 
>consciousness. His installation at Military Park will do just that."
>
>
>
>roycrosse, a Newark resident, is originally from Port of Spain, Trinidad, 
>West Indies. He received formal art training at Ryerson and Center Tech 
>School in Toronto, Canada. His work has been described as that which 
>emerges out of a deep reservoir of inherited visions and spiritual 
>vitality reflecting the natural sensuality of the Caribbean worldand 
>blending influences of Colonial Europe and Africa. roycrosse has exhibited 
>in Italy, Mexico, Canada, the Caribbean and throughout the United States.
>
>
>For additional information, contact the Newark Arts Council at 
>973.643.1625.


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1828
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-19 12:55:07
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Taz
Message:


Tamara-  I plead guilty to resorting to sarcasm for lack of answers on how 
to respond to Joe's chest-thumping. But in case you didn't see my previous 
post, I went into great detail adressing the meriad of criticisms that he 
has thrown our way.  I will post it again here so you can review it.  As for 
what happened at Kimako's I heard it from half a dozen people that were 
there, including Manny & Letti who have my utmost respect.  Manny even told 
me that afterwords he even patted Joe on the back and told him "I didn't 
come here to fight with you."  But Joe's position is: "the threats i 
received by manny and letti are not forgotten, you >want what they got 
comin? keep talkin',  their threats are not forgotten"(!?)  (what is it 
"they got coming" anyway)  Can you or Joe explain how this behavior has 
anything to do with uniting revolutionaries or building a newspaper 
(considering these are two instrumental people on the edit board) I really 
don't know what to tell you, except that it may be more productive to 
examine the recent history of your own organization for clues as to why we 
coudn't achieve the desired unity on the edit board.  This habit of 
continuously blaming others is disengenuous and leads nowhere.

OUtside of that, I don't see why S&S shouldn't work on the production of the 
paper.  It was SWORD that accused us of exploiting them and their resources, 
days after agreeing to take on certain production task, then accusing us of 
sabotage. It would be funny if it wasn't so absurd and agravating.


Anyhow, here's my long-winded response to Joe.  Take care, Matt



____________________________________________________________________

Joe- I will attempt to respond to your dizzying array of charges,
countercharges, allegations, suppositions, suspicions, assumptions,
inventions, creations, demands, and wild-eyed conclusions.  But if I may
take another approach because our view of history is mildly different:

1. You repeatedly charge Keith, Louise, and myself with sabbotaging U&S.
This is more interesting considering we had been meeting and planning with
AB to restart U&S for months before SWORD called AB to set up a meeting,
disengenuously on my behalf.  So we met anyway with SWORD and accomplished
nothing in two or three weeks because the meetings deteriorated into
bickering with SWORD over fundamental principles of democracy,&
maximum/minimum demands that U&S maintains and SWORD does not.  So we set up
a "unity" meeting outside the editboard meetings, which was more productive
& at the end of which we agreed that SWORD would help with *production.*
Shortly afterwards we recieved the 2000 word polemic from Cliff. There he
accused us of exploiting SWORD's resources.  What does this mean to you?  To
me it meant that we should stop exploiting SWORD's resources.  So we are
becoming self-sufficient, in other words, not dependent on SWORD to produce
the paper.  IN other words, you didn't teach us self-reliance, you taught us
not to depend on you.  Don't get confused.  So, this is why I didn't send
you articles, or ask Cliff to do layout.  As far a Maura is concerned, she
has never informed me of her allegance to SWORD or your "struggle first
unite later" ways.  So why shouldn't she help if she decides to?

AS far as the production in general, it's getting done, and a structure is
being developed to sustain it on a more regular basis.  Your approach to
this entire issue has shown that you don't understand that *production* is
subordinate to ideological unity, (so we're not going to race to scrap
together a shoddy paper because SWORD has blackmailed us--"Now or else we
accuse you of sabotage!")and two that *struggle* is subordinate to unity in
general (I think the incident at the last Kimako's demonstrates this yet
again, by picking a fight with other members of the edit board.)  You need
to stop blaming other people for your own errors, to start.



2.  As for the Coalition:  Who was subordinated to Curtis?  When was Curtis
leading the Coalition?  When I resigned, I nominated Janis to take the helm
because of her developed ideology and history with the movement before our
time.  (BTW--Your demands for sadistic demonstrations of public
self-flogging make me feel sorry for your organization.  Seriously.  It
reminds me of that time that I became so enraged that time that Cliff sped
up and down Central Ave in his Camaro piss drunk that I decked him...and
then spent the next three weeks begging for his forgiveness to the point of
personal humiliation, while my requests for him to criticize his drunken
driving were met with "Nobody got hurt, so I didn't endanger anyone".
Keith, myself, others have repeatedly acknowledged certain errors, but SWORD
continues to use them as bludgeons against us.  What's the point of
self-criticism if the other party doesn't accept it?  (Is that why you are
so reluctant to be self-critical?)  So don't expect me to prostrate myself
to the Priests of the Revolution for redemption...done that, been there,
have the scar.)  In any case, several months ago, we got into a debate about
the history of the Coalition the last time you charged that we were so
inactive with so little base.  At that time, I listed 10 or 12 different
projects taht we had going in different areas of the community.  At that
time you admitted that you had misjugded the Coalition.  Remember, or no?
The fact is that the Coaliton had been developing some very strong ties to
the WC community, and our meetings were far more represented by WC folks
than any other grassroots organization that I knew of at the time in NB.  As
for us being subordinated to Republicans, I addressed that.  Our closet
republican was not in the leadership, although he did a great deal to build
and promote the organization, our principles, and advocate for community
control over the police.  These are the democtratic tendencies that I was
refering to which SWORD was unable to embrace, in order to "kill the
patient", as they say.  So yes, this *line* did a great deal to push him
further from the democratic struggle and into the arms of an awaiting
Republican Party.  As for the WC activists that were expelled, I know of
none, except for Cliff, who was *kept* from working with the Coalition
because of apparant personal issues that appeared to be negatively effecting
his relationships with people around him. In other words, women in NJFO were
totally afraid to work with him because of his own abuse, and as the head of
the Coalition, it was my responsibility to keep THAT undemocratic element
out.  Of course, more recently we have discussed that while he was
simultaneously being kicked out of NJFO, there were overarching political
reasons for that expulsion--of which I had no knowledge at the time as the
CU meetings where these decisions were made were secret--. And so, "we never
this and that..."  The Coalition struggled to win over working class people,
period.  We didn't check their party documentation on the way in.  If they
were down with our points of unity, that was all we required.

3.  As for my relationship with my parents, you have no idea what the hell
you're talking about and you best keep that off this public egroup, brother.

4. How many times do you want to scream about Keith and others registering
Republican and supporting Bright in exchange for 30 pieces of silver and an
office?  It's been acknowledged and self-criticized countless times here and
in the NBPC meetings, in NJFO meetings so frequently that more than half the
organization split and started a new organization (so I hear). BTW- I wasn't
the one to advocate to withhold the Revolutionary Democratic Line on the
National Election.  In fact, my main contribution to the campaign was the
U&S election issue  itself, which I spent 2 months working on.  I watched
95% of my work toward that campaign which was geared to promote
Revolutionary Democracy get trashed because the majority of NJFO no longer
supported it.  Then why do you keep beating your chest my way about this.
You need to back off about "the way you sabatoged U&S's position being put
forward."  That
's an outright & blatant fabrication of the facts, friend.

Like I said, I no longer subscribe to self-flogging.  My Catholic days are
over.  But you continue to declair that *nothing* has been done to rectify
any of this.  Let's start with, we were the ones who forced the debate to
get you & SWORD back on the People's Campaign egroup list, even before you
were banned.  Directly following that, we began advocating that SWORD be
reinvited into the Peoples' Campaign itself, as part of the bigger argument
that it was not functioning as a united front.  We then *demonstrated* our
willingness to attempt to build unity by meeting with SWORD in the U&S
editboard meeeting.  That obviously didn't work out (see #1 above for
reasons) but not to say it can't in the future.  But it's clear that it
can't and won't this way.  And what is also clear is that my experience with
SWORD has taught me the fine line between advocating for it to participate
in the United Front, and supporting it in principle but as an abstract idea.

Take it personal, Joe-  Matt



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Taz
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:52:51 +0000


matt,
you were not there at kimakos so i don't see how you could make such
statements about it. also, i do not understand your post and what it has to
do with any of the issues that are being discussed. this is a complete
disregard for the discussion which cannot be productive and reach any sort
of unity, agreement, or be working towards those ends if this is your
response. are you completely dismissing all the points that  joe raises as
invalid by refusing to answer them and instead writing this post? is this
the end of the discussion on you part? cause i am not satisfied with the
fact that you have afew times adressed joe's behavior at kimakos of which
you were not there. so far i have been kicked out of the people's campaign
and now not apparently not allowed to do work for U&S. i am ready and
willing to do work, but i am being kept from doing so by the U & S edit
board of which yourself, keith and louise are on (also part of the NBPC of
which we were expelled)  maura is allowed to do work because she has never
declared affiliation with SWORD, although she is part of S&S and did come to
the meetings as a representative of it.  If the crux of the isuue of our
involvement on the paper lies in idealogical differences, then why is she
invited to do work as a part of S&S which presented 1 of the 2 analysis's
that U&S did not agree with? that is bullshit. and i do see it as sabotage
to develop a practice of expelling and excluding revolutionaries from doing
work, which seems to have been going on for "six years" and which i myself
have experienced multiple times since have been active. i also see these as
valid points and a valuable discussion working towards a productive end that
do not warrant a response of nonsense words on your part. what about you?

 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: [nbpc] Taz
 >Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:51:37
 >
 >Joe- you are a walking paradox.  Amazing.
 >
 >
 >Relatedly:
 >Pick one that suits you (I like "pretty kettle of fish", or "not made with
 >rose water")
 >
 >
 >V. WORDS RELATING TO THE VOLUNTARY POWERS; INDIVIDUAL VOLITION
 >IV. ANTAGONISM
 >1. Conditional antagonism
 >Difficulty.
 >
 >[Antonyms: facility.]
 >
 >[Nouns] difficulty; hardness; impracticability (impossibility) [more];
 >tough
 >work, hard work, uphill work; hard task, Herculean task, Augean task; task
 >of Sisyphus, Sisyphean labor, tough job, teaser, rasper, dead lift.
 >
 >dilemma, embarrassment; deadlock; perplexity (uncertainty) [more];
 >intricacy; entanglement [more]; cross fire; awkwardness, delicacy, 
ticklish
 >card to play, knot, Gordian knot, dignus vindice nodus, net, meshes, maze;
 >coil (convolution) [more]; crooked path; involvement.
 >
 >nice point, delicate point, subtle point, knotty point; vexed question,
 >vexata quaestio, poser; puzzle (riddle) [more]; paradox; hard nut to 
crack,
 >nut to crack; bone to pick, crux, pons asinorum, where the shoe pinches.
 >
 >nonplus, quandary, strait, pass, pinch, pretty pass, stress, brunt;
 >critical
 >situation, crisis; trial, rub, emergency, exigency, scramble.
 >
 >scrape, hobble, slough, quagmire, hot water, hornet's nest; sea of
 >troubles,
 >peck of troubles; pretty kettle of fish; pickle, stew, imbroglio, mess,
 >ado;
 >false position.
 >
 >set fast, stand; deadlock, dead set.
 >
 >fix, horns of a dilemma, cul de sac; hitch; stumblng block (hindrance)
 >[more].
 >
 >[Verbs] be difficult; run one hard, go against the grain, try one's
 >patience, put one out; put to one's shifts, put to one's wit's end; go 
hard
 >with one, try one; pose, perplex (uncertain) [more]; bother, nonplus,
 >gravel, bring to a deadlock; be impossible [more]; be in the way of
 >(hinder)
 >[more].
 >
 >meet with difficulties; labor under difficulties; get into difficulties;
 >plunge into difficulties; struggle with difficulties; contend with
 >difficulties; grapple with difficulties; labor under a disadvantage; be in
 >difficulty
 >
 >fish in troubled waters, buffet the waves, swim against the stream, scud
 >under bare poles.
 >
 >have much ado with, have a hard time of it; come to the push, come to the
 >pinch; bear the brunt.
 >
 >grope in the dark, lose one's way, weave a tangled web, walk among eggs.
 >
 >get into a scrape; bring a hornet's nest about one's ears; be put to one's
 >shifts; flounder, boggle, struggle; not know which way to turn (uncertain)
 >[more]; perdre son Latin; stick at, stick in the mud, stick fast; come to 
a
 >stand, come to a deadlock; hold the wolf by the ears.
 >
 >render difficult; enmesh, encumber, embarrass, ravel, entangle; put a 
spoke
 >in the wheel (hinder) [more]; lead a pretty dance.
 >
 >[Adjectives] difficult, not easy, hard, tough; troublesome, toilsome,
 >irksome; operose, laborious, onerous, arduous, Herculean, formidable;
 >sooner
 >said than done; more easily said than done.
 >
 >difficult to deal with, hard to deal with; ill-conditioned, crabbed; not 
to
 >be handled with kid gloves, not made with rose water.
 >
 >awkward, unwieldy, unmanageable; intractable, stubborn (obstinate) [more];
 >perverse, refractory, plaguy, trying, thorny, rugged; knotted, knotty;
 >invious; pathless, trackless; labyrinthine (convoluted) [more]; intricate,
 >complicated (tangled) [more]; impracticable (impossible) [more]; not
 >feasible [more]; desperate (hopeless) [more].
 >
 >embarrassing, perplexing (uncertain) [more]; delicate, ticklish, critical;
 >beset with difficulties, full of difficulties, surrounded by difficulties,
 >entangled by difficulties, encompassed with difficulties.
 >
 >under a difficulty; in a box; in difficulty, in hot water, in the suds, in
 >a
 >cleft stick, in a fix, in the wrong box, in a scrape, in deep water, in a
 >fine pickle; in extremis; between two stools, between Scylla and 
Charybdis;
 >surrounded by shoals, surrounded by breakers, surrounded by quicksands; at
 >cross purposes; not out of the wood(s).
 >
 >reduced to straits; hard pressed, sorely pressed; run hard; pinched, put 
to
 >it, straitened; hard up, hard put to it, hard set; put to one's shifts;
 >puzzled, at a loss, (uncertain) [more]; at the end of one's tether, at
 >one's
 >wit's end, at a nonplus, at a standstill; graveled, nonplussed, stranded,
 >aground; stuck fast, set fast; up a tree, at bay, aux abois, driven into a
 >corner, driven from pillar to post, driven to extremity, driven to one's
 >wit's end, driven to the wall; au bout de son Latin; out of one's depth;
 >thrown out.
 >
 >accomplished with difficulty; hard-fought, hard-earned.
 >
 >[Adverbs] with difficulty, with much ado; hardly; uphill; against the
 >stream, against the grain; a rebours; invita Minerva; in the teeth of; at 
a
 >pinch, upon a pinch; at long odds.
 >
 >[Phrases] "ay there's the rub" [Hamlet]; hic labor hoc opus [Vergil];
 >things
 >are come to a pretty pass, ab inconvenienti; ad astra per aspera; acun
 >chemin de fleurs ne conduit a la gloire.
 >
 >
 >
 >----Original Message Follows----
 >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, amirib@...
 >Subject: [nbpc] Re: BURY schundle
 >Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:09:19 -0400
 >
 >**** the point ****
 >
 >this is the main point for all to see clear as day:
 >
 >       Keith and Matt and Louise are the only ones saying that we
 >       can not work together. They have been saying that for the last six
 >       years. That has been their entire practice towards uniting
 >       revolutionaries and winning the advanced to communism.
 >
 >and to matt, again you should watch your mouth especially for matters you
 >were not there to observe. you talk as if you attended kimako's, which you
 >did not - the threats i received by manny and letti are not forgotten, you
 >want what they got comin? keep talkin'
 >
 >joe
 >
 >  >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
 >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
 >  >Date: Tue, 08 Jan 1980 15:47:13 -0500
 >  >
 >  >Cliff,
 >  >the "proof" is this:
 >  >"Reperations for the multi-national working class!!" -Joe Smith
 >  >
 >  >as I wrote below that line is a liquidation of the national question.
 >This
 >  >shouild be
 >  >obvious to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Marxism-Leninism.
 >  >
 >  >again
 >  >since we have ideological disagreements, this being a case in point, 
and
 >  >since you
 >  >feel that our relationship was exploitive how are we going to work
 >togther?
 >  >I am starting to think that you are avoiding the point.
 >  >Keith
 >  >
 >  >cliff smith wrote:
 >  >
 >  > > prove this:
 >  > >
 >  > > "liquidates the demand and operates under the unstated assumption
 >that
 >  > > equality has already been achieved among the multi-natuional
 >  > > >working class- "
 >  > >
 >  > > "It makes no distinction between the minimum and maximum program but
 >  > > actually collapses the two."
 >  > >
 >  > > (hint--you cant cause its false.)
 >  > > reparations for oppressed nations &all oppressed peoples.
 >  > > cliff
 >  > >
 >  > > whens the next peoples campaign meeting?
 >  > >
 >  > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
 >  > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
 >  > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 21:39:59 -0500
 >  > > >
 >  > > >Joe,
 >  > > >yr slogan "Reperations for the multi-national working class!!" is
 >  > > >trotskyism.
 >  > > >U&S put forward and has been struggling for reperations for slavery
 >for
 >  >the
 >  > > >afro-american nation. Your slogan liquidates the demand and 
operates
 >  >under
 >  > > >the
 >  > > >unstated assumption that equality has already been achieved among
 >the
 >  > > >multi-natuional
 >  > > >working class- that's trotskyism. The slogan is militant reformism.
 >It
 >  > > >makes no
 >  > > >distinction between the minimum and maximum program but actually
 >  >collapses
 >  > > >the two.
 >  > > >Maybe yr rrrrrrevolutionary practice should include studying
 >  > > >marxism-leninism.
 >  > > >
 >  > > >Keith
 >  > > >
 >  > > >
 >  > > >
 >  > > > > Reperations for the multi-national working class!!
 >  > > > >
 >  > > > > break that down
 >  > > > >
 >  > > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
 >  > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
 >  > > > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 19:00:16 -0500
 >  > > > > >
 >  > > > > >Joe,
 >  > > > > >you wrote:
 >  > > > > >
 >  > > > > > > "that is the headline the targum gave the essay (when i
 >e-mailed
 >  >it
 >  > > >to
 >  > > > > >myself
 >  > > > > > > the title became such) which was written in response to 
david
 >  > > >horowitz's
 >  > > > > >10
 >  > > > > > > reasons why reparations for blacks is wrong... you were at
 >  >



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1829
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-19 13:10:55
Subject:Fwd: [onepeoplesproject] FW: [CAN] Urgent Action - CUT Colombia
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: <sales@...>
Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>, <overthrow@onelist.com>
Subject: [onepeoplesproject] FW: [CAN] Urgent Action - CUT Colombia
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:10:01 -0400


-----Original Message-----
From: Colombia Action Network [mailto:actioncolombia@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 3:56 PM
To: actioncolombia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CAN] Urgent Action - CUT Colombia



      My Groups | actioncolombia Main Page



_______________________________________________________________
COLOMBIAN LABOR MONITOR
www.prairienet.org/clm

Monday, 2 July 2001

       *****************
       * URGENT ACTION *
       *****************

The following is an Urgent Action appeal from the Human Rights
Department of the CUT Colombia which was issued on Friday, 29th June
2001.

Send protest e-mails, faxes and letters demanding a) protection for
trade unionists under threat and b) the removal of state impunity from
those carrying out the assassinations to:

Doctor Andres Pastrana Arango
President of the Republic, Palacio de Narino, Santafe de Bogota DC
E-mail: rdh@...
Fax: 00571 3362109 / 337 1351 / 2867434 / 286 6842

With copies to:

CUT Trade Union Federation, Departmento Derechos Humanos,
Calle 35 No 7-25 Piso 9, Bogota, Colombia.
Tel/Fax: 00571 288 8577 / 323 7550
E-mail: cutcol@...

Colombia Solidarity Campaign, PO Box 8446, London N17 6NZ
E-mail: colombia_sc@...

Colombian Labor Monitor
E-mail: clm@...

BARBARISM AGAINST COLOMBIAN TRADE UNIONS CONTINUES
Through its Human Rights Department, the Colombian United Workers
Federation (CUT) denounces the state of insecurity of trade union
leaders, which is clearly and categorically reflected in the violations
of human rights that have so far this year left 55 trade unionists
assassinated.

ASSASSINATION
In the night hours of 27th June 2001 comrade CRISTOBAL URIBE BELTRAN was
kidnapped by unknown persons. He was a worker in the Health Secretariat
in North Santander and a member of CUT affiliated union ANTHOC - the
Association of Workers and Employees in Hospitals, Clinics and
Organisations dedicating to Protecting the Health of the Community.

This kidnapping took place in the Municipality of Tibu in North
Santander and ended up with the assassination of comrade Cristobal who
was apparently killed by bullet wounds on 28th June.

THREATS
Comrade JORGE NISPERUZA, president of the executive of CUT - Cordoba,
was forcibly displaced from the city of Monteria, in the Department of
Cordoba as the consequence of an ultimatum obliging him to leave the
region within 24 hours or be executed. Right now we do not know in what
city or region our displaced comrade might be found, he had to leave his
activities and his family because of this serious threat on his life.

Comrade MARIO DE JESUS CASTANEDA, president of the CUT - Huila
departmental executive found himself under death threat, on a list of
trade unions in Neiva, the capital city of Huila. It is important to
make known that up to this point the Colombian government has not
established the necessary protection measures so that the comrade is not
assassinated and to guarantee his trade union activity.

Comrade GERARDO RODRIGO GENO GUERRERO, president of the National
Bankworkers union of Bancolombia S.S. - SINTRABANCOL has in the last
three years been the target of many telephone threats that clearly show
his life is in danger. These calls have also been trying to extort
money. To date, despite the history of danger in which the comrade and
his family live, the Colombian government has still not adopted
protection measures.

These recent cases of violations of our Human Rights leave it very clear
that the government of Doctor Andres Pastrana Arango, President of the
Republic of Colombia, does not have the will nor the political
commitment to implement real and immediate mechanisms to protect our
lives. The government is thereby violating the National Constitution,
agreements and international treaties, and the most recent
recommendations of the Human Rights Commission of the United Nations and
the International Labour Organisation.

The Colombian Government, to avoid assuming its political
responsibility, says, especially to the international community, that it
is unable to guarantee lives in the situation of armed conflict in the
country. This is an excuse that cannot be accepted because whether in
times of peace or in times of war, the government is obliged to
guarantee the right to life and to provide the means of us conducting
free trade union activity.

       Via Andy Higginbottom
           andy@...




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1830
Sender:b v <villavoice@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-19 13:58:38
Subject:BRIAN VILLA requests your attention.
Message:

Well, as I told some of you at Flavio's party, the
Highland Park activities in question would become
detrimental to New Brunswick activism activites. The
Star-Ledger article is a political feast in waiting, a
la the 1996/7 pro-appointed school board flyer in the
outer reasches of Ward One. Check the numbers: they
were devastating.

I also pointed out to some that the effort behind
Zofia's scheduled presentation on a public affairs
matter should wait. The time is not right, and I do
not see how the question can succeed given the
electoral numbers. I calculate a 2,000 deficit.

If one wishes, I can supply the breakdown and also aks
many important institutional questions related to
management issues relating to the aforementioned
public affairs matter.

I also hope that those who respond, won't attack me
for being "weak" or whatever, such as "selling out." 
It's irrelevant to the issue, and it belies the fact
that I've been working on a lawsuit of landmark status
for three years and it's on the verge of blossing on
the statewide scene.

Caveat literator,

Brian Villa


********************
FROM TODAY"S HOME NEWS:


Group itself displays racism

Racism is a virulent form of hate that must be dealt
with straightforwardly, honestly and openly. It is
with great interest that I have witnessed the bigotry
in Highland Park be used as a political football by
the People's Campaign.

The People's Campaign has tried to tie bigotry to a
rise of Nazism in Highland Park. True, bigotry does
exist in Highland Park and a number of people
associated with former Mayor James Polos have a
provable history of racial intolerance. Additionally,
the current mayor and council have not answered all
the public's concerns on this matter definitively.
However, the People's Campaign insistance that
"bigotry is Nazism" is not directly linkable.

If bigotry and Nazism were synonymous, then the
People's Campaign could be judged as a Nazi hate group
itself. Since the end of last year's election, most of
its members are revolutionary socialists and they have
demonstrable records of racial insensitivity, physical
harassment and hysterical propaganda. Added to this,
the lack of respect for women shown in the group
points to misogyny

Despite this, the People's Campaign has had the
hypocritical fortitude to go to the Borough Council in
Highland Park. Clearly, it was not discussed that most
of the People's Campaign members are from out of town.
Clearly, it was not discussed that their leader,
Xavier Hansen, is moving out of Highland Park this
summer. Clearly, it does not take a crystal ball to
see that the People's Campaign has no intention of
staying in Highland Park to improve the borough.

As an Afro-American, I have a sincere desire to have
real change stem from this glimpse into the dark side
of Highland Park government. Clearly, the current
administration has not been forthcoming. Clearly, the
People's Campaign has jumped on this issue for selfish
reasons. I hope that respectable leaders follow
through in an unselfish way to reform the public works
department and Highland Park so we can sincerely say
"never again" to all forms of bigotry, racism and
hate.

Tracy Ford
NEW BRUNSWICK

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1831
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-19 14:19:49
Subject:Rev. Jackson's new stance on Racial Profiling
Message:

From the NYT:

July 19, 2001

Clergy to Ask Minority Voters to Weigh Stances on Profiling
By ROBERT HANLEY

RENTON, July 18 � A prominent black New Jersey clergyman said today that he 
and fellow pastors would urge black and Hispanic voters to withhold their 
support for any candidate for governor who does not endorse measures to 
counter racial profiling.

The minister, Reginald T. Jackson, who is the executive director of the 
Black Ministers Council, said the organization wants both major-party 
candidates, Jim McGreevey and Bret D. Schundler, to drop their opposition to 
ending state troopers' practice of asking some motorists to consent to 
searches, and to support measures to outlaw racial profiling.

Mr. Jackson contended during a news conference at the State House that 
stop-and-search statistics released Tuesday by the New Jersey attorney 
general's office showed that profiling, a practice in which minority drivers 
are stopped in disproportionate numbers, continues.

Mr. Jackson vowed that pastors of the 600 churches in the council would urge 
their congregations not to back gubernatorial candidates who do not endorse 
the council's anti-profiling proposals. "It is not enough to come to our 
churches, attend our events, parade in our communities and smile in our 
faces," Mr. Jackson said. "If you want us to stand with you, then we expect 
you to stand with us on this issue."

Mr. Jackson noted that a third candidate for governor, William E. Schluter, 
a state senator running as an independent, has endorsed the council's 
positions. In response to a question, he declined to rule out the 
possibility of seeking minority-community support for Mr. Schluter.

In the past, both Mr. Schundler, the Republican candidate, and Mr. 
McGreevey, the Democrat, have expressed opposition to ending consent 
searches, which often follow traffic stops.

The New Jersey Senate Judiciary Committee has called for a ban on such 
searches, in which police officers who stop a car ask the motorist for 
permission to search the vehicle.

A spokesman for Mr. Schundler, Bill Guhl, declined to comment on Mr. 
Jackson's comments. Mr. Guhl said Mr. Schundler would issue a proposal on 
the issue soon.

In a statement today, Mr. McGreevey called profiling immoral, illegal and 
abhorrent. He repeated his opposition to banning consent searches, calling 
them an important crime- fighting tool. Responding to Mr. Jackson's call for 
a law banning profiling as a civil offense, Richard McGrath, a spokesman for 
Mr. McGreevey, said a new law was not needed, because officers who engage in 
profiling face prosecution.






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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1832
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-19 20:02:43
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Question
Message:



>My question is directed at Joe or Cliff,
>

joe here

>Since we have ideological disagreements that prevent us from jointly 
>working on the edit board of U&S

that is your position.

>and since you have stated that our previuos relationship was
exploitation

keith, i plan on exploiting every resource at my disposal in order to unite 
revolutionaries.

>what do you propose to do?

i propose that we  put forward our ideological differences open and above 
board through U&S and let the people, at the very least, participate in the 
development of our revolutionary analysis.

>this is not a rhetorical question. I would sincerely like to know.

it is a good question & we ask the same of yourself. for you to continue to 
put forward that we cannot work together is going to work to isolate 
yourself.

>Keith
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1833
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-19 20:19:42
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: BURY schundle
Message:

keith, for six years you have found one reason or another which suit your 
purposes in order to explain that you cannot work with me/SWORD. do you deny 
that you exploit SWORD's ability to distribute the paper and at the same 
time deny our own political arguements from being printed?

what does that mean, manure for cointelpro? manny and letti threatened my 
life. you were screaming and demanding that we should go out back and fight. 
i am nothing but honest about my life so fuck yourself with this 
counter-intelligence fabrication.

what is a meek threat?

we work together just like that keith... WE WORK TOGETHER
it is you that forever says you can't do it.

joe

>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: BURY schundle
>Date: Tue, 08 Jan 1980 18:59:54 -0500
>
>Joe,
>this statement of yours:
>"the threats i received by manny and letti are not forgotten, you
>want what they got comin? keep talkin'"
>is more manure for cointelpro
>If you constanly have to resort to meek threats when your ability to make a 
>coherent
>arguemnt fails: why would anyone want to work with you on anything?
>
>I think I already asked this question 7 or 8 times but just for kicks I'll 
>ask again:
>How do you propose to work together if you think that we are exploiting 
>you?
>
>Keith
>
>
>joseph smith wrote:
>
>
> > **** the point ****
> >
> > this is the main point for all to see clear as day:
> >
> >      Keith and Matt and Louise are the only ones saying that we
> >      can not work together. They have been saying that for the last six
> >      years. That has been their entire practice towards uniting
> >      revolutionaries and winning the advanced to communism.
> >
> > and to matt, again you should watch your mouth especially for matters 
>you
> > were not there to observe. you talk as if you attended kimako's, which 
>you
> > did not - the threats i received by manny and letti are not forgotten, 
>you
> > want what they got comin? keep talkin'
> >
> > joe
> >
> > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
> > >Date: Tue, 08 Jan 1980 15:47:13 -0500
> > >
> > >Cliff,
> > >the "proof" is this:
> > >"Reperations for the multi-national working class!!" -Joe Smith
> > >
> > >as I wrote below that line is a liquidation of the national question. 
>This
> > >shouild be
> > >obvious to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Marxism-Leninism.
> > >
> > >again
> > >since we have ideological disagreements, this being a case in point, 
>and
> > >since you
> > >feel that our relationship was exploitive how are we going to work 
>togther?
> > >I am starting to think that you are avoiding the point.
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >cliff smith wrote:
> > >
> > > > prove this:
> > > >
> > > > "liquidates the demand and operates under the unstated assumption 
>that
> > > > equality has already been achieved among the multi-natuional
> > > > >working class- "
> > > >
> > > > "It makes no distinction between the minimum and maximum program but
> > > > actually collapses the two."
> > > >
> > > > (hint--you cant cause its false.)
> > > > reparations for oppressed nations &all oppressed peoples.
> > > > cliff
> > > >
> > > > whens the next peoples campaign meeting?
> > > >
> > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
> > > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 21:39:59 -0500
> > > > >
> > > > >Joe,
> > > > >yr slogan "Reperations for the multi-national working class!!" is
> > > > >trotskyism.
> > > > >U&S put forward and has been struggling for reperations for slavery 
>for
> > >the
> > > > >afro-american nation. Your slogan liquidates the demand and 
>operates
> > >under
> > > > >the
> > > > >unstated assumption that equality has already been achieved among 
>the
> > > > >multi-natuional
> > > > >working class- that's trotskyism. The slogan is militant reformism. 
>It
> > > > >makes no
> > > > >distinction between the minimum and maximum program but actually
> > >collapses
> > > > >the two.
> > > > >Maybe yr rrrrrrevolutionary practice should include studying
> > > > >marxism-leninism.
> > > > >
> > > > >Keith
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Reperations for the multi-national working class!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > break that down
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
> > > > > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 19:00:16 -0500
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Joe,
> > > > > > >you wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "that is the headline the targum gave the essay (when i 
>e-mailed
> > >it
> > > > >to
> > > > > > >myself
> > > > > > > > the title became such) which was written in response to 
>david
> > > > >horowitz's
> > > > > > >10
> > > > > > > > reasons why reparations for blacks is wrong... you were at
> > >rutger's
> > > > >last
> > > > > > > > semester weren't you? didn't catch your position, where is 
>it?
> > >do
> > > > >you
> > > > > > >agree
> > > > > > > > that your boss should rob you?"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I'm not sure exactly what your saying, but as to my boss 
>robbing me
> > >or
> > > > >any
> > > > > > >boss
> > > > > > >robbing anyone,  that it is not the issue of reparations. You 
>are
> > > > >confusing
> > > > > > >two
> > > > > > >distinct things. Reparations for afro-americacans are 
>repeartions
> > >for
> > > > > > >chattel slavery.
> > > > > > >Reparations is one of the ways to create equality among the
> > > > >multi-national
> > > > > > >working
> > > > > > >calss so that unity is easier to achieve. If white workers
> > >throughout
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >U&S got
> > > > > > >repartions along with afro-american workers then the 
>relationship
> > >would
> > > > >not
> > > > > > >change.You
> > > > > > >are making the demand for reparations a demand for socialism.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "i don't see any working class people in the capb, how is it
> > >that u
> > > > >do?"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >When the coalition existed it was primarily a working class
> > > > >organization.
> > > > > > >If you are
> > > > > > >gloating about its demise I don't know what to tell you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "you are off the wall to explain your arguements from such
> > >basis."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I don't know what that sentence is refering to.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > you say:
> > > > > > > > "Politics must lead production not the other way around."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >That's my line, I don't think that you answered it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > the differences in our ideologies are on the table, what 
>else
> > >needs
> > > > >to
> > > > > > >be
> > > > > > > > done to put forward the newspaper collectively? the concept 
>of
> > >u&s
> > > > >is to
> > > > > > > > unite revolutionaries, and to win the advanced to communism! 
>not
> > >to
> > > > >sit
> > > > > > >in
> > > > > > > > meetings until we all agree with your IDEAS, because we both
> > >know
> > > > >your
> > > > > > > > practice is out to lunch...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I raised the question of putting froward the paper collectively
> > >very
> > > > > > >specificly in the
> > > > > > >piece to whihc you responded.
> > > > > > >the issue is:
> > > > > > >1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit
> > >board
> > > > >is
> > > > > > >one trend.
> > > > > > >2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your
> > >brother.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working
> > > > >relationship
> > > > > > >that you
> > > > > > >feel is non-exploitative.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I don't think that we both know my "practice is out to lunch". 
>If
> > >this
> > > > >were
> > > > > > >the case
> > > > > > >than why would you be so eager to unite with it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > keith, the fact is i have seen you expell and disassociate
> > >yourself
> > > > >from
> > > > > > > > more revolutionary/working class people than i've seen you
> > >organize.
> > > > >if
> > > > > > >i
> > > > > > > > didn't call amiri and set up a meeting, which you and matt 
>had
> > > > > > >cancelled, i
> > > > > > > > don't see reason that there would be any production going on 
>at
> > >all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Actaully I don't think that you know much about my practice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  We re-scheduled the meeting because Baraka was not going to 
>be in
> > > > >town on
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > >original date and you came to that meeting
> > > > > > >.
> > > > > > >I especially like the super subjective grandiose vision of 
>yrself.
> > >" i
> > > > > > >don't see
> > > > > > >reason that there would be any production going on at all."  
>Are
> > >you
> > > > >also
> > > > > > >actaully the
> > > > > > >emobiement of Reason that travels throughout history on whose
> > >behalf
> > > > >all
> > > > > > >people are
> > > > > > >acting?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > the reason the same criticism is coming forward about the
> > > > >republicans in
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > peoples' campaign is because the situation has not been
> > >rectified.
> > > > >nor
> > > > > > >have
> > > > > > > > you offered anything more than a mere admittance to things
> > > > >impossible to
> > > > > > > > deny about your affiliation with such alliances with
> > >republicans.
> > > > >what
> > > > > > >is
> > > > > > > > your plan keith to rectify the situation, because as it is 
>dim
> > >is on
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > housing authority - that is your bag.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >You can make the criticism untill the cows come home. Your 
>proposal
> > >for
> > > > > > >rectification
> > > > > > >is to expel the republicans and re-admit you.
> > > > > > >I already sd that I agree republicans should be expelled from 
>the
> > > > > > >organization and
> > > > > > >that SWORD should be united with in the People's Campaign.But I
> > >think
> > > > >that
> > > > > > >it is more
> > > > > > >important that the majority of people involved with the 
>camapign
> > > > >understand
> > > > > > >what is
> > > > > > >happening and what mistakes were made, otherwise they will just 
>be
> > > > >repeated
> > > > > > >(maybe
> > > > > > >with an ultra-left cover).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > you say:
> > > > > > > > "I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of 
>clear
> > > > > > >ideological
> > > > > > > > leadership and bad political line which came to head in the
> > >People's
> > > > > > > > Campaign with support for bright and suppression of an
> > > > >anti-republican
> > > > > > > > political line and a lack of any revolutionary polirtical 
>line."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > but what are you going to do?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I think that you are just repeating yrself here, but again 
>maybe
> > >I'm
> > > > > > >blinded by
> > > > > > >ignorance if so please cast the light. Otherwise see my reply
> > >above.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > who is going to lead the vote to announce all republicans 
>must
> > >be
> > > > > > >removed
> > > > > > > > and are not welcome in the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign
> > >because
> > > > >in
> > > > > > >fact
> > > > > > > > the racist republicans party is the most vicous opposition 
>to
> > >the
> > > > > > >peoples
> > > > > > > > productive development?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I think that this is the same again.
> > > > > > >But I do have a question. What is "the peoples productive
> > >development"?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I tried to answer the isues you raise, but since this reply is 
>a
> > >little
> > > > > > >lengthy, I
> > > > > > >would reiterate this point as being central:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit
> > >board
> > > > >is a
> > > > > > >single
> > > > > > >trend.
> > > > > > >2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your
> > >brother.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working
> > > > >relationship
> > > > > > >that you
> > > > > > >feel is non-exploitative. First, editorial unity is not 
>possible
> > >until
> > > > > > >there is a
> > > > > > >change in political line.Secondly,  if the current relationship 
>is
> > > > >termed
> > > > > > >"exploitative" then it must change. There's the problem. I have
> > >made
> > > > >more
> > > > > > >than one
> > > > > > >proposal for its solution. As far as I am concerned its on you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Keith
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 11:17:24 -0500
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >To respond to Cliff's comments
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "what is "unfortunate" about curtis' "confession"?  it 
>is
> > >like
> > > > >fresh
> > > > > > > > >air."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I agree. Curtis explaining his position brings clarity, I 
>think
> > > > >Matt's
> > > > > > > > >meaning is that
> > > > > > > > >it is unfortunate that Curtis is loyal to the Republicans
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "while yr "exploring", you might "explore" yr own
> > >responsibility
> > > > >for
> > > > > > > > >curtis'
> > > > > > > > > > republican betrayal.  he comes from yr organization, the
> > >CAPB,
> > > > >from
> > > > > > > > >which
> > > > > > > > > > you (henson-style) embraced the right & expelled working
> > >class
> > > > > > >activists
> > > > > > > > >&
> > > > > > > > > > revolutionaries.  where is the CAPB now?"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of 
>clear
> > > > > > >ideological
> > > > > > > > >leadership
> > > > > > > > >and bad political line which came to head in the People's
> > >Campaign
> > > > >with
> > > > > > > > >support for
> > > > > > > > >bright and suppression of an anti-republican political line 
>and
> > >a
> > > > >lack
> > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >any
> > > > > > > > >revolutionary polirtical line.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "you might also "explore" how not only did yr NBPC not 
>only
> > >"not
> > > > >put
> > > > > > >out
> > > > > > > > > > warnings of the republican danger", but encouraged 
>curtis to
> > >be
> > > > > > > > >republican,
> > > > > > > > > > created a "communist" "ideology" to support it, & in 
>fact
> > > > >yrselves
> > > > > > > > >embraced
> > > > > > > > > > republican partying"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >This is true enough although it has already been criticized 
>on
> > > > >numerous
> > > > > > > > >occassions
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "recognize that curtis does not proclaim to "reform" the
> > > > >republican
> > > > > > > > >party,
> > > > > > > > > > rather to "reform" its "image"--that is to find more 
>liberal
> > > > >marks
> > > > > > >like
> > > > > > > > > > yrself to con."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >That is how Curtis stated his case and that certainly seems 
>to
> > >be
> > > > >in
> > > > > > >line
> > > > > > > > >with the
> > > > > > > > >compassionate conservativism strategy of Shundler/Bush and 
>even
> > >the
> > > > > > >most
> > > > > > > > >extreme right
> > > > > > > > >wing section of the Buchanan reform party who even 
>nominated
> > >Foster
> > > > >as
> > > > > > > > >their VP an
> > > > > > > > >afro-american woman. (although that shopuld also tell us
> > >something
> > > > > > >about
> > > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >limitations of "woman" based ideology (ie."sisterhood" as 
>well
> > >as
> > > > >black
> > > > > > > > >nationalism)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ""finally", why shd it take my remarks to make you 
>"serious
> > > > >about
> > > > > > >being
> > > > > > > > > > self-reliant" (which you apparently aren't, judging from 
>the
> > > > >absence
> > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > paper)?"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >We don't want to exploit anyone. yr "remarks" made it clear 
>to
> > >me
> > > > >that
> > > > > > >you
> > > > > > > > >feel that
> > > > > > > > >the relationship we had as to production of the paper was
> > > > > > >"exploitative"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "as far as the definitive relationship between U&S & 
>SWORD"
> > >we
> > > > >stand
> > > > > > > > >ready
> > > > > > > > > > to produce the paper as a collective organizer & 
>struggle
> > > > >through
> > > > > > >our
> > > > > > > > > > differences.  as you apparently are uninterested in our
> > > > >involvement
> > > > > > >(&
> > > > > > > > >even,
> > > > > > > > > > apparently, in yr own production!), you shd, openly & 
>above
> > > > >board,
> > > > > > >state
> > > > > > > > >yr
> > > > > > > > > > reasons for sectarian sabotage of the paper."
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >We have numerous ideological differences which in my 
>opinion
> > >make
> > > > >joint
> > > > > > > > >editorial work
> > > > > > > > >impossible at the moment. (not to mention differences of 
>style.
> > >I
> > > > >have
> > > > > > >a
> > > > > > > > >hard time
> > > > > > > > >trusting anyone who doesn't believe in friendship for 
>instance
> > >and
> > > > >also
> > > > > > >a
> > > > > > > > >hard time
> > > > > > > > >working with people who do not believe in trust itself.  
>Those
> > >are
> > > > > > > > >ultra-ultra left
> > > > > > > > >lines which really resolve as the essence of right-wing
> > >ideology
> > > > >see
> > > > > > > > >Mussolini, G.
> > > > > > > > >Gordon Liddy, the SA in Nazi Germany for examples).  Joint
> > > > >editorial
> > > > > > >work
> > > > > > > > >is
> > > > > > > > >impossible given our differences as we learned in practice.
> > >That is
> > > > >we
> > > > > > > > >don't agree on
> > > > > > > > >fundamental issues (in particular reparations (and as a sub
> > >heading
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >inability to
> > > > > > > > >be self-critical) and the woman question and  the idea of 
>an
> > > > > > >organiztaion
> > > > > > > > >whose
> > > > > > > > >ideology is sisterhood is not marxist, it is feminist)  and 
>we
> > > > >wasted
> > > > > > >mor
> > > > > > > > >than one
> > > > > > > > >entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let 
>that
> > > > >continue
> > > > > > > > >would have been
> > > > > > > > >the actual sabatage. We discussed working together on
> > >production
> > > > >and in
> > > > > > > > >fact the last
> > > > > > > > >newspaper SWORD printed/photocopied. Since then  you have 
>made
> > >it
> > > > >clear
> > > > > > > > >that anything
> > > > > > > > >short of joint work on the edit board constitutes an
> > >exploititive
> > > > > > > > >relationship. Since
> > > > > > > > >we are not interetsed in knowingly exoploiting anyone nor 
>are
> > >we
> > > > > > >interested
> > > > > > > > >in having
> > > > > > > > >an edit board of multifarious trends our current 
>relationship
> > >or
> > > > >lack
> > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >one is on
> > > > > > > > >you.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >As to the continued accusation of sabatage, it is something 
>of
> > >a
> > > > >joke.
> > > > > > >Joe
> > > > > > > > >Smith
> > > > > > > > >official spokesman of the oppressed first raised this
> > >accusation in
> > > > >his
> > > > > > > > >essay "Let the
> > > > > > > > >oppressed speak".  His charge is that Matt did not send HIM
> > > > >articles to
> > > > > > >lay
> > > > > > > > >out
> > > > > > > > >therefore the newspaper is being sabotaged. This is the 
>same
> > > > >muddled
> > > > > > >super
> > > > > > > > >subjective
> > > > > > > > >logic as the title of his piece suggests. Joe has blown up 
>his
> > >own
> > > > > > > > >subjectyivty to the
> > > > > > > > >point that he belives that his subjectivity is  objectivity
> > >(see
> > > > >also
> > > > > > >above
> > > > > > > > >"working
> > > > > > > > >class activists" expelled from Coalition. actually Cliff 
>was
> > > > >expelled
> > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > >numerous
> > > > > > > > >working calss activist remained in the organization but 
>Cliff
> > > > >believes
> > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > >not only
> > > > > > > > >does he represent the working calss but that he is the 
>working
> > > > >class)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Looking at the political line of SWORD especially around 
>the
> > >issue
> > > > >of
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >paper and
> > > > > > > > >its production we are actually seeing the ultra-left 
>version of
> > >the
> > > > > > >"office
> > > > > > > > >space
> > > > > > > > >community center club house" line. That is placing 
>production
> > >and
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >productive
> > > > > > > > >forces above politics. Joe nor Cliff is concerned with the
> > > > >political
> > > > > > >line
> > > > > > > > >of the
> > > > > > > > >newspaper just "come out with it" "where is it" "hurry up" 
>new
> > >and
> > > > > > >improved
> > > > > > > > >revolutionary newsaper faster stronger better than before.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Joe wrote an article, that has been endlessly defended, 
>that
> > >stated
> > > > > > >white
> > > > > > > > >workers need
> > > > > > > > >reparations along with afro-americans. I am not interested 
>in
> > > > >putting
> > > > > > >out
> > > > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > >political line. Nor am I interested in putting out 
>political
> > >lines
> > > > > > > > >endorsing
> > > > > > > > >"sisterhood".  Politics must lead production not the other 
>way
> > > > >around.
> > > > > > > > >Production
> > > > > > > > >before politics is the theory of sponatinety and the 
>essence of
> > > > > > >economism
> > > > > > > > >(see "What
> > > > > > > > >is To be done")
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >If SWORD wants to help put out the political line of the 
>U&S
> > > > >editorial
> > > > > > > > >board than
> > > > > > > > >let's go, but if they insist on being a part of the edit 
>board
> > >then
> > > > > > >first
> > > > > > > > >we must come
> > > > > > > > >to ideological resolutions. From what has already been sd 
>SWORD
> > > > > > >believes
> > > > > > > > >that helping
> > > > > > > > >with production is exploitation. We certainly do not intend 
>to
> > > > >exploit
> > > > > > > > >anyones
> > > > > > > > >resources.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "scientific socialists dismiss "luck".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Actually, luck is part of that which can not be understood 
>at
> > > > >present
> > > > > > >or
> > > > > > > > >predicted
> > > > > > > > >with accuracy. For instance wheather at a rally.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > unite, don't split
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >"....First of all, we are discussing party literature and 
>its
> > > > > > >subordination
> > > > > > > > >to party
> > > > > > > > >control. Everyone is free to write and say whatever he 
>likes,
> > > > >without
> > > > > > > > >restrictions.
> > > > > > > > >But every voluntary association (including the party) is 
>also
> > >free
> > > > >to
> > > > > > >expel
> > > > > > > > >memers who
> > > > > > > > >use the name of the party to advocate anti-party views. 
>Freedom
> > >of
> > > > > > >speech
> > > > > > > > >and of the
> > > > > > > > >press must be complete. But then freedom of association 
>must be
> > > > > > >complete
> > > > > > > > >too..."
> > > > > > > > >(Lenin. "Party Organization and Party Literature" Collected
> > >Works
> > > > > > >Volume 10
> > > > > > > > >p.47)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Keith
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > >CC: amirib@...
> > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > > > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 04:44:49
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes 
>your
> > > > >positions
> > > > > > > > >right
> > > > > > > > > > >about him & mine wrong.  To the extent that this is so, 
>I
> > >was
> > > > >wrong
> > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > >say
> > > > > > > > > > >that you lied about his past.  However, we will 
>certainly
> > > > >continue
> > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > > > >explore the role that BOL/SWORD played in pushing him 
>back
> > >into
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > >Republican fold--as we will be struggling to win over 
>many
> > >many
> > > > > > >working
> > > > > > > > > > >class people from the Republican party. There was a 
>time
> > >not
> > > > >too
> > > > > > >long
> > > > > > > > >ago
> > > > > > > > > > >that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's Black Nation
> > > > >together...As
> > > > > > >we've
> > > > > > > > > > >agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against 
>Republican
> > > > >danger,
> > > > > > >etc.
> > > > > > > > >on
> > > > > > > > > > >the one hand, but on the other I maintain that 
>dogmatism,
> > >not
> > > > > > > > > > >Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his 
>democratic
> > > > > > >tendencies.
> > > > > > > > >&
> > > > > > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > > > >the extent that they still exist, they will obviously 
>run
> > > > > > >completely
> > > > > > > > > > >counter
> > > > > > > > > > >to the objectives of the racist, imperialist,
> > > > > > >not-about-to-be-reformed
> > > > > > > > > > >Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.  (Curtis- 
>I
> > >say
> > > > >this
> > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > >you:
> > > > > > > > > > >The less distress your embrace of the Republicans 
>causes
> > >you,
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >more
> > > > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > > > >self interest has won over the interests of the people,
> > >even
> > > > >Sissy
> > > > > > > > >Adams.)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was 
>exploiting
> > >your
> > > > > > > > >resources
> > > > > > > > > > >directly following our "unity meeting" that made us 
>more
> > > > >serious
> > > > > > >about
> > > > > > > > > > >being
> > > > > > > > > > >self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move.
> > >(CS:..."Though
> > > > >our
> > > > > > > > >lay-out
> > > > > > > > > > >and distribution resources are readily exploited.") As 
>far
> > >as
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > >definitive
> > > > > > > > > > >relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I would 
>say
> > >talk
> > > > >to
> > > > > > >AB,
> > > > > > > > >try
> > > > > > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > > > >organize another sit down, do what you need to do.
> > >Otherwise,
> > > > >good
> > > > > > > > >luck
> > > > > > > > > > >with the Union/housing battle.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >-Matt
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >----Original Message Follows----
> > > > > > > > > > >From: cliffsmith69@...
> > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union!
> > > > > > > > > > >Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0000
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >New Brunswick Supports
> > > > > > > > > > >Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over
> > >Housing!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and 
>all
> > >labor,
> > > > > > > > > > >organized or not, against the anti-worker, 
>anti-democratic
> > >New
> > > > > > > > > > >Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union 
>contractor,
> > >NOVA
> > > > > > > > > > >Development.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, 
>the
> > > > > > >elimination
> > > > > > > > > > >of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes,
> > >with no
> > > > > > > > > > >replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime
> > >against
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > >people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director 
>of
> > >NBHA,
> > > > >has
> > > > > > > > > > >given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union
> > > > >developer,
> > > > > > >with
> > > > > > > > > > >not a single worker from the community!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union
> > >labor,
> > > > >and
> > > > > > >for
> > > > > > > > > > >community control over housing, in part through an
> > >All-Elected,
> > > > > > > > > > >Resident Housing Authority!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Union Jobs!
> > > > > > > > > > >Community Employment!
> > > > > > > > > > >Affordable Housing!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Contact Joe Smith
> > > > > > > > > > >729.0390
> > > > > > > > > > >can_bush@...
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > > > > >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > > > > >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1834
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-19 20:20:44
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: BURY schundle
Message:

keith, for six years you have found one reason or another which suit your 
purposes in order to explain that you cannot work with me/SWORD. do you deny 
that you exploit SWORD's ability to distribute the paper and at the same 
time deny our own political arguements from being printed?

what does that mean, manure for cointelpro? manny and letti threatened my 
life. you were screaming and demanding that we should go out back and fight. 
i am nothing but honest about my life so fuck yourself with this 
counter-intelligence fabrication.

what is a meek threat?

we work together just like that keith... WE WORK TOGETHER
it is you that forever says you can't do it.

joe

>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: BURY schundle
>Date: Tue, 08 Jan 1980 18:59:54 -0500
>
>Joe,
>this statement of yours:
>"the threats i received by manny and letti are not forgotten, you
>want what they got comin? keep talkin'"
>is more manure for cointelpro
>If you constanly have to resort to meek threats when your ability to make a 
>coherent
>arguemnt fails: why would anyone want to work with you on anything?
>
>I think I already asked this question 7 or 8 times but just for kicks I'll 
>ask again:
>How do you propose to work together if you think that we are exploiting 
>you?
>
>Keith
>
>
>joseph smith wrote:
>
>
> > **** the point ****
> >
> > this is the main point for all to see clear as day:
> >
> >      Keith and Matt and Louise are the only ones saying that we
> >      can not work together. They have been saying that for the last six
> >      years. That has been their entire practice towards uniting
> >      revolutionaries and winning the advanced to communism.
> >
> > and to matt, again you should watch your mouth especially for matters 
>you
> > were not there to observe. you talk as if you attended kimako's, which 
>you
> > did not - the threats i received by manny and letti are not forgotten, 
>you
> > want what they got comin? keep talkin'
> >
> > joe
> >
> > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
> > >Date: Tue, 08 Jan 1980 15:47:13 -0500
> > >
> > >Cliff,
> > >the "proof" is this:
> > >"Reperations for the multi-national working class!!" -Joe Smith
> > >
> > >as I wrote below that line is a liquidation of the national question. 
>This
> > >shouild be
> > >obvious to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Marxism-Leninism.
> > >
> > >again
> > >since we have ideological disagreements, this being a case in point, 
>and
> > >since you
> > >feel that our relationship was exploitive how are we going to work 
>togther?
> > >I am starting to think that you are avoiding the point.
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >cliff smith wrote:
> > >
> > > > prove this:
> > > >
> > > > "liquidates the demand and operates under the unstated assumption 
>that
> > > > equality has already been achieved among the multi-natuional
> > > > >working class- "
> > > >
> > > > "It makes no distinction between the minimum and maximum program but
> > > > actually collapses the two."
> > > >
> > > > (hint--you cant cause its false.)
> > > > reparations for oppressed nations &all oppressed peoples.
> > > > cliff
> > > >
> > > > whens the next peoples campaign meeting?
> > > >
> > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
> > > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 21:39:59 -0500
> > > > >
> > > > >Joe,
> > > > >yr slogan "Reperations for the multi-national working class!!" is
> > > > >trotskyism.
> > > > >U&S put forward and has been struggling for reperations for slavery 
>for
> > >the
> > > > >afro-american nation. Your slogan liquidates the demand and 
>operates
> > >under
> > > > >the
> > > > >unstated assumption that equality has already been achieved among 
>the
> > > > >multi-natuional
> > > > >working class- that's trotskyism. The slogan is militant reformism. 
>It
> > > > >makes no
> > > > >distinction between the minimum and maximum program but actually
> > >collapses
> > > > >the two.
> > > > >Maybe yr rrrrrrevolutionary practice should include studying
> > > > >marxism-leninism.
> > > > >
> > > > >Keith
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Reperations for the multi-national working class!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > break that down
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] BURY schundler
> > > > > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 19:00:16 -0500
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Joe,
> > > > > > >you wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "that is the headline the targum gave the essay (when i 
>e-mailed
> > >it
> > > > >to
> > > > > > >myself
> > > > > > > > the title became such) which was written in response to 
>david
> > > > >horowitz's
> > > > > > >10
> > > > > > > > reasons why reparations for blacks is wrong... you were at
> > >rutger's
> > > > >last
> > > > > > > > semester weren't you? didn't catch your position, where is 
>it?
> > >do
> > > > >you
> > > > > > >agree
> > > > > > > > that your boss should rob you?"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I'm not sure exactly what your saying, but as to my boss 
>robbing me
> > >or
> > > > >any
> > > > > > >boss
> > > > > > >robbing anyone,  that it is not the issue of reparations. You 
>are
> > > > >confusing
> > > > > > >two
> > > > > > >distinct things. Reparations for afro-americacans are 
>repeartions
> > >for
> > > > > > >chattel slavery.
> > > > > > >Reparations is one of the ways to create equality among the
> > > > >multi-national
> > > > > > >working
> > > > > > >calss so that unity is easier to achieve. If white workers
> > >throughout
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >U&S got
> > > > > > >repartions along with afro-american workers then the 
>relationship
> > >would
> > > > >not
> > > > > > >change.You
> > > > > > >are making the demand for reparations a demand for socialism.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "i don't see any working class people in the capb, how is it
> > >that u
> > > > >do?"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >When the coalition existed it was primarily a working class
> > > > >organization.
> > > > > > >If you are
> > > > > > >gloating about its demise I don't know what to tell you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "you are off the wall to explain your arguements from such
> > >basis."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I don't know what that sentence is refering to.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > you say:
> > > > > > > > "Politics must lead production not the other way around."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >That's my line, I don't think that you answered it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > the differences in our ideologies are on the table, what 
>else
> > >needs
> > > > >to
> > > > > > >be
> > > > > > > > done to put forward the newspaper collectively? the concept 
>of
> > >u&s
> > > > >is to
> > > > > > > > unite revolutionaries, and to win the advanced to communism! 
>not
> > >to
> > > > >sit
> > > > > > >in
> > > > > > > > meetings until we all agree with your IDEAS, because we both
> > >know
> > > > >your
> > > > > > > > practice is out to lunch...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I raised the question of putting froward the paper collectively
> > >very
> > > > > > >specificly in the
> > > > > > >piece to whihc you responded.
> > > > > > >the issue is:
> > > > > > >1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit
> > >board
> > > > >is
> > > > > > >one trend.
> > > > > > >2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your
> > >brother.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working
> > > > >relationship
> > > > > > >that you
> > > > > > >feel is non-exploitative.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I don't think that we both know my "practice is out to lunch". 
>If
> > >this
> > > > >were
> > > > > > >the case
> > > > > > >than why would you be so eager to unite with it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > keith, the fact is i have seen you expell and disassociate
> > >yourself
> > > > >from
> > > > > > > > more revolutionary/working class people than i've seen you
> > >organize.
> > > > >if
> > > > > > >i
> > > > > > > > didn't call amiri and set up a meeting, which you and matt 
>had
> > > > > > >cancelled, i
> > > > > > > > don't see reason that there would be any production going on 
>at
> > >all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Actaully I don't think that you know much about my practice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  We re-scheduled the meeting because Baraka was not going to 
>be in
> > > > >town on
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > >original date and you came to that meeting
> > > > > > >.
> > > > > > >I especially like the super subjective grandiose vision of 
>yrself.
> > >" i
> > > > > > >don't see
> > > > > > >reason that there would be any production going on at all."  
>Are
> > >you
> > > > >also
> > > > > > >actaully the
> > > > > > >emobiement of Reason that travels throughout history on whose
> > >behalf
> > > > >all
> > > > > > >people are
> > > > > > >acting?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > the reason the same criticism is coming forward about the
> > > > >republicans in
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > peoples' campaign is because the situation has not been
> > >rectified.
> > > > >nor
> > > > > > >have
> > > > > > > > you offered anything more than a mere admittance to things
> > > > >impossible to
> > > > > > > > deny about your affiliation with such alliances with
> > >republicans.
> > > > >what
> > > > > > >is
> > > > > > > > your plan keith to rectify the situation, because as it is 
>dim
> > >is on
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > housing authority - that is your bag.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >You can make the criticism untill the cows come home. Your 
>proposal
> > >for
> > > > > > >rectification
> > > > > > >is to expel the republicans and re-admit you.
> > > > > > >I already sd that I agree republicans should be expelled from 
>the
> > > > > > >organization and
> > > > > > >that SWORD should be united with in the People's Campaign.But I
> > >think
> > > > >that
> > > > > > >it is more
> > > > > > >important that the majority of people involved with the 
>camapign
> > > > >understand
> > > > > > >what is
> > > > > > >happening and what mistakes were made, otherwise they will just 
>be
> > > > >repeated
> > > > > > >(maybe
> > > > > > >with an ultra-left cover).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > you say:
> > > > > > > > "I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of 
>clear
> > > > > > >ideological
> > > > > > > > leadership and bad political line which came to head in the
> > >People's
> > > > > > > > Campaign with support for bright and suppression of an
> > > > >anti-republican
> > > > > > > > political line and a lack of any revolutionary polirtical 
>line."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > but what are you going to do?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I think that you are just repeating yrself here, but again 
>maybe
> > >I'm
> > > > > > >blinded by
> > > > > > >ignorance if so please cast the light. Otherwise see my reply
> > >above.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > who is going to lead the vote to announce all republicans 
>must
> > >be
> > > > > > >removed
> > > > > > > > and are not welcome in the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign
> > >because
> > > > >in
> > > > > > >fact
> > > > > > > > the racist republicans party is the most vicous opposition 
>to
> > >the
> > > > > > >peoples
> > > > > > > > productive development?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I think that this is the same again.
> > > > > > >But I do have a question. What is "the peoples productive
> > >development"?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I tried to answer the isues you raise, but since this reply is 
>a
> > >little
> > > > > > >lengthy, I
> > > > > > >would reiterate this point as being central:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >1. unity on the edit board requires ideological unity, the edit
> > >board
> > > > >is a
> > > > > > >single
> > > > > > >trend.
> > > > > > >2. joint work on production was called "exploitative" by your
> > >brother.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >As far as I am concerned it is on you to propose some working
> > > > >relationship
> > > > > > >that you
> > > > > > >feel is non-exploitative. First, editorial unity is not 
>possible
> > >until
> > > > > > >there is a
> > > > > > >change in political line.Secondly,  if the current relationship 
>is
> > > > >termed
> > > > > > >"exploitative" then it must change. There's the problem. I have
> > >made
> > > > >more
> > > > > > >than one
> > > > > > >proposal for its solution. As far as I am concerned its on you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Keith
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 11:17:24 -0500
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >To respond to Cliff's comments
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "what is "unfortunate" about curtis' "confession"?  it 
>is
> > >like
> > > > >fresh
> > > > > > > > >air."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I agree. Curtis explaining his position brings clarity, I 
>think
> > > > >Matt's
> > > > > > > > >meaning is that
> > > > > > > > >it is unfortunate that Curtis is loyal to the Republicans
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "while yr "exploring", you might "explore" yr own
> > >responsibility
> > > > >for
> > > > > > > > >curtis'
> > > > > > > > > > republican betrayal.  he comes from yr organization, the
> > >CAPB,
> > > > >from
> > > > > > > > >which
> > > > > > > > > > you (henson-style) embraced the right & expelled working
> > >class
> > > > > > >activists
> > > > > > > > >&
> > > > > > > > > > revolutionaries.  where is the CAPB now?"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I think that NJFO has a responsibility for its lack of 
>clear
> > > > > > >ideological
> > > > > > > > >leadership
> > > > > > > > >and bad political line which came to head in the People's
> > >Campaign
> > > > >with
> > > > > > > > >support for
> > > > > > > > >bright and suppression of an anti-republican political line 
>and
> > >a
> > > > >lack
> > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >any
> > > > > > > > >revolutionary polirtical line.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "you might also "explore" how not only did yr NBPC not 
>only
> > >"not
> > > > >put
> > > > > > >out
> > > > > > > > > > warnings of the republican danger", but encouraged 
>curtis to
> > >be
> > > > > > > > >republican,
> > > > > > > > > > created a "communist" "ideology" to support it, & in 
>fact
> > > > >yrselves
> > > > > > > > >embraced
> > > > > > > > > > republican partying"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >This is true enough although it has already been criticized 
>on
> > > > >numerous
> > > > > > > > >occassions
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "recognize that curtis does not proclaim to "reform" the
> > > > >republican
> > > > > > > > >party,
> > > > > > > > > > rather to "reform" its "image"--that is to find more 
>liberal
> > > > >marks
> > > > > > >like
> > > > > > > > > > yrself to con."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >That is how Curtis stated his case and that certainly seems 
>to
> > >be
> > > > >in
> > > > > > >line
> > > > > > > > >with the
> > > > > > > > >compassionate conservativism strategy of Shundler/Bush and 
>even
> > >the
> > > > > > >most
> > > > > > > > >extreme right
> > > > > > > > >wing section of the Buchanan reform party who even 
>nominated
> > >Foster
> > > > >as
> > > > > > > > >their VP an
> > > > > > > > >afro-american woman. (although that shopuld also tell us
> > >something
> > > > > > >about
> > > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >limitations of "woman" based ideology (ie."sisterhood" as 
>well
> > >as
> > > > >black
> > > > > > > > >nationalism)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ""finally", why shd it take my remarks to make you 
>"serious
> > > > >about
> > > > > > >being
> > > > > > > > > > self-reliant" (which you apparently aren't, judging from 
>the
> > > > >absence
> > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > paper)?"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >We don't want to exploit anyone. yr "remarks" made it clear 
>to
> > >me
> > > > >that
> > > > > > >you
> > > > > > > > >feel that
> > > > > > > > >the relationship we had as to production of the paper was
> > > > > > >"exploitative"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "as far as the definitive relationship between U&S & 
>SWORD"
> > >we
> > > > >stand
> > > > > > > > >ready
> > > > > > > > > > to produce the paper as a collective organizer & 
>struggle
> > > > >through
> > > > > > >our
> > > > > > > > > > differences.  as you apparently are uninterested in our
> > > > >involvement
> > > > > > >(&
> > > > > > > > >even,
> > > > > > > > > > apparently, in yr own production!), you shd, openly & 
>above
> > > > >board,
> > > > > > >state
> > > > > > > > >yr
> > > > > > > > > > reasons for sectarian sabotage of the paper."
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >We have numerous ideological differences which in my 
>opinion
> > >make
> > > > >joint
> > > > > > > > >editorial work
> > > > > > > > >impossible at the moment. (not to mention differences of 
>style.
> > >I
> > > > >have
> > > > > > >a
> > > > > > > > >hard time
> > > > > > > > >trusting anyone who doesn't believe in friendship for 
>instance
> > >and
> > > > >also
> > > > > > >a
> > > > > > > > >hard time
> > > > > > > > >working with people who do not believe in trust itself.  
>Those
> > >are
> > > > > > > > >ultra-ultra left
> > > > > > > > >lines which really resolve as the essence of right-wing
> > >ideology
> > > > >see
> > > > > > > > >Mussolini, G.
> > > > > > > > >Gordon Liddy, the SA in Nazi Germany for examples).  Joint
> > > > >editorial
> > > > > > >work
> > > > > > > > >is
> > > > > > > > >impossible given our differences as we learned in practice.
> > >That is
> > > > >we
> > > > > > > > >don't agree on
> > > > > > > > >fundamental issues (in particular reparations (and as a sub
> > >heading
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >inability to
> > > > > > > > >be self-critical) and the woman question and  the idea of 
>an
> > > > > > >organiztaion
> > > > > > > > >whose
> > > > > > > > >ideology is sisterhood is not marxist, it is feminist)  and 
>we
> > > > >wasted
> > > > > > >mor
> > > > > > > > >than one
> > > > > > > > >entire edit board meetings debating these points. To let 
>that
> > > > >continue
> > > > > > > > >would have been
> > > > > > > > >the actual sabatage. We discussed working together on
> > >production
> > > > >and in
> > > > > > > > >fact the last
> > > > > > > > >newspaper SWORD printed/photocopied. Since then  you have 
>made
> > >it
> > > > >clear
> > > > > > > > >that anything
> > > > > > > > >short of joint work on the edit board constitutes an
> > >exploititive
> > > > > > > > >relationship. Since
> > > > > > > > >we are not interetsed in knowingly exoploiting anyone nor 
>are
> > >we
> > > > > > >interested
> > > > > > > > >in having
> > > > > > > > >an edit board of multifarious trends our current 
>relationship
> > >or
> > > > >lack
> > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >one is on
> > > > > > > > >you.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >As to the continued accusation of sabatage, it is something 
>of
> > >a
> > > > >joke.
> > > > > > >Joe
> > > > > > > > >Smith
> > > > > > > > >official spokesman of the oppressed first raised this
> > >accusation in
> > > > >his
> > > > > > > > >essay "Let the
> > > > > > > > >oppressed speak".  His charge is that Matt did not send HIM
> > > > >articles to
> > > > > > >lay
> > > > > > > > >out
> > > > > > > > >therefore the newspaper is being sabotaged. This is the 
>same
> > > > >muddled
> > > > > > >super
> > > > > > > > >subjective
> > > > > > > > >logic as the title of his piece suggests. Joe has blown up 
>his
> > >own
> > > > > > > > >subjectyivty to the
> > > > > > > > >point that he belives that his subjectivity is  objectivity
> > >(see
> > > > >also
> > > > > > >above
> > > > > > > > >"working
> > > > > > > > >class activists" expelled from Coalition. actually Cliff 
>was
> > > > >expelled
> > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > >numerous
> > > > > > > > >working calss activist remained in the organization but 
>Cliff
> > > > >believes
> > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > >not only
> > > > > > > > >does he represent the working calss but that he is the 
>working
> > > > >class)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Looking at the political line of SWORD especially around 
>the
> > >issue
> > > > >of
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >paper and
> > > > > > > > >its production we are actually seeing the ultra-left 
>version of
> > >the
> > > > > > >"office
> > > > > > > > >space
> > > > > > > > >community center club house" line. That is placing 
>production
> > >and
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >productive
> > > > > > > > >forces above politics. Joe nor Cliff is concerned with the
> > > > >political
> > > > > > >line
> > > > > > > > >of the
> > > > > > > > >newspaper just "come out with it" "where is it" "hurry up" 
>new
> > >and
> > > > > > >improved
> > > > > > > > >revolutionary newsaper faster stronger better than before.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Joe wrote an article, that has been endlessly defended, 
>that
> > >stated
> > > > > > >white
> > > > > > > > >workers need
> > > > > > > > >reparations along with afro-americans. I am not interested 
>in
> > > > >putting
> > > > > > >out
> > > > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > >political line. Nor am I interested in putting out 
>political
> > >lines
> > > > > > > > >endorsing
> > > > > > > > >"sisterhood".  Politics must lead production not the other 
>way
> > > > >around.
> > > > > > > > >Production
> > > > > > > > >before politics is the theory of sponatinety and the 
>essence of
> > > > > > >economism
> > > > > > > > >(see "What
> > > > > > > > >is To be done")
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >If SWORD wants to help put out the political line of the 
>U&S
> > > > >editorial
> > > > > > > > >board than
> > > > > > > > >let's go, but if they insist on being a part of the edit 
>board
> > >then
> > > > > > >first
> > > > > > > > >we must come
> > > > > > > > >to ideological resolutions. From what has already been sd 
>SWORD
> > > > > > >believes
> > > > > > > > >that helping
> > > > > > > > >with production is exploitation. We certainly do not intend 
>to
> > > > >exploit
> > > > > > > > >anyones
> > > > > > > > >resources.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "scientific socialists dismiss "luck".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Actually, luck is part of that which can not be understood 
>at
> > > > >present
> > > > > > >or
> > > > > > > > >predicted
> > > > > > > > >with accuracy. For instance wheather at a rally.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > unite, don't split
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >"....First of all, we are discussing party literature and 
>its
> > > > > > >subordination
> > > > > > > > >to party
> > > > > > > > >control. Everyone is free to write and say whatever he 
>likes,
> > > > >without
> > > > > > > > >restrictions.
> > > > > > > > >But every voluntary association (including the party) is 
>also
> > >free
> > > > >to
> > > > > > >expel
> > > > > > > > >memers who
> > > > > > > > >use the name of the party to advocate anti-party views. 
>Freedom
> > >of
> > > > > > >speech
> > > > > > > > >and of the
> > > > > > > > >press must be complete. But then freedom of association 
>must be
> > > > > > >complete
> > > > > > > > >too..."
> > > > > > > > >(Lenin. "Party Organization and Party Literature" Collected
> > >Works
> > > > > > >Volume 10
> > > > > > > > >p.47)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Keith
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > >CC: amirib@...
> > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Et tu, Curtis?
> > > > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 04:44:49
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Joe- It seems Curtis' unfortunate "confession" makes 
>your
> > > > >positions
> > > > > > > > >right
> > > > > > > > > > >about him & mine wrong.  To the extent that this is so, 
>I
> > >was
> > > > >wrong
> > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > >say
> > > > > > > > > > >that you lied about his past.  However, we will 
>certainly
> > > > >continue
> > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > > > >explore the role that BOL/SWORD played in pushing him 
>back
> > >into
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > >Republican fold--as we will be struggling to win over 
>many
> > >many
> > > > > > >working
> > > > > > > > > > >class people from the Republican party. There was a 
>time
> > >not
> > > > >too
> > > > > > >long
> > > > > > > > >ago
> > > > > > > > > > >that we were reading DuBois & Baraka's Black Nation
> > > > >together...As
> > > > > > >we've
> > > > > > > > > > >agreed the NBPC didn't put out warnings against 
>Republican
> > > > >danger,
> > > > > > >etc.
> > > > > > > > >on
> > > > > > > > > > >the one hand, but on the other I maintain that 
>dogmatism,
> > >not
> > > > > > > > > > >Marxism-Leninism, caused BOL not to embrace his 
>democratic
> > > > > > >tendencies.
> > > > > > > > >&
> > > > > > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > > > >the extent that they still exist, they will obviously 
>run
> > > > > > >completely
> > > > > > > > > > >counter
> > > > > > > > > > >to the objectives of the racist, imperialist,
> > > > > > >not-about-to-be-reformed
> > > > > > > > > > >Republican Party, hopefully causing distress.  (Curtis- 
>I
> > >say
> > > > >this
> > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > >you:
> > > > > > > > > > >The less distress your embrace of the Republicans 
>causes
> > >you,
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >more
> > > > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > > > >self interest has won over the interests of the people,
> > >even
> > > > >Sissy
> > > > > > > > >Adams.)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Finally, it was Cliff's statement that U&S was 
>exploiting
> > >your
> > > > > > > > >resources
> > > > > > > > > > >directly following our "unity meeting" that made us 
>more
> > > > >serious
> > > > > > >about
> > > > > > > > > > >being
> > > > > > > > > > >self-reliant, an innevitable and necessary move.
> > >(CS:..."Though
> > > > >our
> > > > > > > > >lay-out
> > > > > > > > > > >and distribution resources are readily exploited.") As 
>far
> > >as
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > >definitive
> > > > > > > > > > >relationship that exists between U&S & SWORD, I would 
>say
> > >talk
> > > > >to
> > > > > > >AB,
> > > > > > > > >try
> > > > > > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > > > >organize another sit down, do what you need to do.
> > >Otherwise,
> > > > >good
> > > > > > > > >luck
> > > > > > > > > > >with the Union/housing battle.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >-Matt
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >----Original Message Follows----
> > > > > > > > > > >From: cliffsmith69@...
> > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > >To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [coalitionforjustice] support laborers union!
> > > > > > > > > > >Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0000
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >New Brunswick Supports
> > > > > > > > > > >Laborers' Union, City Jobs, & Community Control Over
> > >Housing!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >We stand in solidarity with the Laborers' Union, and 
>all
> > >labor,
> > > > > > > > > > >organized or not, against the anti-worker, 
>anti-democratic
> > >New
> > > > > > > > > > >Brunswick Housing Authority and its non-union 
>contractor,
> > >NOVA
> > > > > > > > > > >Development.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >After J&J's genocidal ethnic cleansing of downtown NB, 
>the
> > > > > > >elimination
> > > > > > > > > > >of 180 affordable housing units in New Brunswick Homes,
> > >with no
> > > > > > > > > > >replacement housing in motion, it is a further crime
> > >against
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > > >people that Kevin Quince, $100,000 Executive Director 
>of
> > >NBHA,
> > > > >has
> > > > > > > > > > >given the Projects Demolition Contract to a non-union
> > > > >developer,
> > > > > > >with
> > > > > > > > > > >not a single worker from the community!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >We join the fight for local jobs!  But also for union
> > >labor,
> > > > >and
> > > > > > >for
> > > > > > > > > > >community control over housing, in part through an
> > >All-Elected,
> > > > > > > > > > >Resident Housing Authority!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >The people need More Democracy, Not Less!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Union Jobs!
> > > > > > > > > > >Community Employment!
> > > > > > > > > > >Affordable Housing!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Contact Joe Smith
> > > > > > > > > > >729.0390
> > > > > > > > > > >can_bush@...
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > > > > >coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
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Post ID:1835
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-19 20:41:13
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Rev. Jackson's new stance on Racial Profiling
Message:

now watch as schundler comes out with some half ass position that jackson 
will place his lips around


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Rev. Jackson's new stance on Racial Profiling
>Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:19:49
>
>From the NYT:
>
>July 19, 2001
>
>Clergy to Ask Minority Voters to Weigh Stances on Profiling
>By ROBERT HANLEY
>
>RENTON, July 18 � A prominent black New Jersey clergyman said today that he
>and fellow pastors would urge black and Hispanic voters to withhold their
>support for any candidate for governor who does not endorse measures to
>counter racial profiling.
>
>The minister, Reginald T. Jackson, who is the executive director of the
>Black Ministers Council, said the organization wants both major-party
>candidates, Jim McGreevey and Bret D. Schundler, to drop their opposition 
>to
>ending state troopers' practice of asking some motorists to consent to
>searches, and to support measures to outlaw racial profiling.
>
>Mr. Jackson contended during a news conference at the State House that
>stop-and-search statistics released Tuesday by the New Jersey attorney
>general's office showed that profiling, a practice in which minority 
>drivers
>are stopped in disproportionate numbers, continues.
>
>Mr. Jackson vowed that pastors of the 600 churches in the council would 
>urge
>their congregations not to back gubernatorial candidates who do not endorse
>the council's anti-profiling proposals. "It is not enough to come to our
>churches, attend our events, parade in our communities and smile in our
>faces," Mr. Jackson said. "If you want us to stand with you, then we expect
>you to stand with us on this issue."
>
>Mr. Jackson noted that a third candidate for governor, William E. Schluter,
>a state senator running as an independent, has endorsed the council's
>positions. In response to a question, he declined to rule out the
>possibility of seeking minority-community support for Mr. Schluter.
>
>In the past, both Mr. Schundler, the Republican candidate, and Mr.
>McGreevey, the Democrat, have expressed opposition to ending consent
>searches, which often follow traffic stops.
>
>The New Jersey Senate Judiciary Committee has called for a ban on such
>searches, in which police officers who stop a car ask the motorist for
>permission to search the vehicle.
>
>A spokesman for Mr. Schundler, Bill Guhl, declined to comment on Mr.
>Jackson's comments. Mr. Guhl said Mr. Schundler would issue a proposal on
>the issue soon.
>
>In a statement today, Mr. McGreevey called profiling immoral, illegal and
>abhorrent. He repeated his opposition to banning consent searches, calling
>them an important crime- fighting tool. Responding to Mr. Jackson's call 
>for
>a law banning profiling as a civil offense, Richard McGrath, a spokesman 
>for
>Mr. McGreevey, said a new law was not needed, because officers who engage 
>in
>profiling face prosecution.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
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>
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>


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Post ID:1838
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-20 02:22:56
Subject:Fwd: Fw: Verse 4 Verse Poetry Cafe
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Trevor Phillips" <tphillipsjr-1@...>
To: "Elisabeth Ssenjovu" <essenjovu@...>, <missvee1975@...>, 
<desireeflourney@...>
Subject: Fw: Verse 4 Verse Poetry Cafe
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:59:04 -0400


----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Williams
To: Trevor Phillips
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 10:25 PM
Subject: Verse 4 Verse Poetry Cafe


Verse 4 Verse
Poetry Cafe'

Featured Artist
Jamal St. John
With Special Guest Poet
and Author of the Poetry Compilation "Release"
Lyric

Hosted by Ras Baraka and Juba Dowdell
With Music Provided By "The Joint"

Plus Open Mic Showcase

@ The Brand New Bridge Club
343 Washington St.
Downtown Newark, NJ  07102
(b/w Court St. & William St.)

Wednesday July 25, 2001

Doors Open @ 7pm
Showtime @ 8pm

$8 Cover
$10 After 10pm

For Information on Obtaining "Release" by Lyric
Go to www.sincerity.cc
For More Information Contact Trevor Philips 800.424.3192


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1839
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-20 02:25:44
Subject:Reparations Urged for Slavery, Segregation--Human Rights Watch
Message:

Reparations as a particular democratic demand:


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Human Rights Watch" <hrwatchnyc@...>
To: <hrw-news@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 1:00 PM
Subject: Reparations Urged for Slavery, Segregation


 > Reparations Urged for Slavery, Segregation
 >
 > (New York, July 19, 2001) In advance of a major international conference
 > on racism, Human Rights Watch today called for reparations to counter
 > the most severe continuing effects of slavery, segregation, and other
 > extreme forms of racism.
 >
 > Human Rights Watch said national and international panels should be
 > created with maximum transparency and public participation to identify
 > and acknowledge past abuses and to guide action to counter their
 >                                      present-day effect.
 >
 > "Groups that suffer today because of slavery or other severe racist
 >                                         practices should be compensated
 > by governments responsible for these
 >          practices," said Kenneth Roth, Executive Director of Human
 > Rights                                              Watch. "Those most
 > seriously victimized today by past wrongs should
 >                       be the first priority for compensation to end
 > their victimization."
 >
 > Roth said reparations for past abuse should focus first on groups that
 >                                            continue to suffer the most
 > severe hardships. "We're not talking about a handout or a windfall,"
 > said Roth. "We are calling for long-term commitments to correct the
 > damage done to the groups left most seriously disadvantaged."
 >
 > Human Rights Watch proposed the establishment of national panels, in
 > multiracial countries such as the United States, Brazil and South
 > Africa, as well as one or more international panels to look at the
 > effect of the slave trade. These panels would focus on tracing these
 > effects not for particular individuals but for groups.
 >
 > The panels should serve as truth commissions aiming to reveal the extent
 > to which a government's past racist practices contribute to contemporary
 > deprivation domestically and abroad, Roth said. They should educate the
 > public, acknowledge responsibility, and propose methods of redress and
 > making amends.
 >
 > A primary purpose of reparations would be to address the social and
 > economic foundations of today's victims' continuing
 > marginalization-through means such as investment in education, housing,
 > health care, or job training.
 >
 > The question of compensation for slavery will be one of the most
 > controversial topics when the U.N. World Conference Against Racism,
 > Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia, and Related Intolerance meets in
 > Durban, South Africa from August 31 to September 7.
 >
 > A copy of Human Rights Watch's position paper is available at:
 >       http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/race/reparations.htm.
 >
 > For more information on race and human rights, please see:
 >
 > Racism & Human Rights (HRW Campaign Page) at
 > http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/race/index.htm.
 >
 > ==^================================================================
 > EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://igc.topica.com/u/?aVximT.aVFmvw
 > Or send an email To: hrw-news-unsubscribe@...
 > This email was sent to: howardnelson@...
 >
 > T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
 > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
 > ==^================================================================
 >


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1840
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-20 07:25:17
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Question
Message:

keith,
1. drop off as many issues of u&s as you want distributed

2. under what conditions have you been arguing for our reinstatement to the 
nbpc?
- who are you arguing with?
- has it ever come to a vote?

3. when will the republicans be voted out!! on the basis of they clearly do 
not represent the people? let alone WARON republican curtis lied and 
manipulated the entire campaign (until exposed by SWORD), let alone dim 
stole the residents seat for the housing authority - both of which are clear 
violations of the struggle for community control which can never be 
reconciled as these contradictions stem from their republican allegiance.

3. when and where is the next nbpc meeting?

4. when and where is the next nbpc meeting?

joe


>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Question
>Date: Wed, 09 Jan 1980 07:19:28 -0500
>
>Maybe this is moving forward,
>
> > Since we have ideological disagreements that prevent us from jointly
> > >working on the edit board of U&S
> >
> > that is your position.
> >
>
>Our ideological differences are not in my imaginzation. I assume your point 
>is that
>they don't prevent us from working together. I agree with that except that 
>they do
>prevent us from working on the edit board together.  That is not a six year 
>mystical
>grudge, we had two edit board meetings that degenerated into arguements 
>over very
>fundamnetal political lines. While we agree on a number of points we have 
>fundamental
>disagreements over the issue of the Afro-American national question and the 
>woman
>question. I am all for sorting those differences out in the newspaper but 
>not at the
>edit board meetings.
>
> > >and since you have stated that our previuos relationship was
> > exploitation
> >
> > keith, i plan on exploiting every resource at my disposal in order to 
>unite
>
>I am not interested in exploiting people who should be my allies. Your 
>response avoids
>the point. A claim was made that your organziation was being exploited. I'm 
>not
>interested in maintaing such a relationship.
>
> > >what do you propose to do?
> >
> > i propose that we  put forward our ideological differences open and 
>above
> > board through U&S and let the people, at the very least, participate in 
>the
> > development of our revolutionary analysis.
> >
>
>I already asked Cliff but anyone from yr organziation could write something 
>that is
>around 300 words and we will respond and print it. I planned to do that 
>with the piece
>that Cliff sent but it was 2000 words and I couldn't find a way to break it 
>down. If
>you want you could also break down that article into 300-400 word sections 
>and we
>could print it as a series with responses.
>
> >
> > >this is not a rhetorical question. I would sincerely like to know.
> >
> > it is a good question & we ask the same of yourself. for you to continue 
>to
> > put forward that we cannot work together is going to work to isolate
> > yourself.
> >
>
>Here is were you lose me. You can't "ask the same of me". We had a working
>relationship and then you said that we were exploiting you. We refuse to be 
>in any
>relationship and then be told that we are exploiting people. So that's why 
>I ask you
>what you suggest. "We work together" is a little vague. I want to know 
>exactly what is
>the relationship going to be that is not exploitative.Then we will  have 
>something to
>talk about.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1841
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-20 11:09:35
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Question
Message:

or if you have originals for the paper get them to me.

we still have to split costs for the first two issues.

probably $125 would be U&S half for production of over 2000 8 page papers.

joe


>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Question
>Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 07:25:17 -0400
>
>keith,
>1. drop off as many issues of u&s as you want distributed
>
>2. under what conditions have you been arguing for our reinstatement to the
>nbpc?
>- who are you arguing with?
>- has it ever come to a vote?
>
>3. when will the republicans be voted out!! on the basis of they clearly do
>not represent the people? let alone WARON republican curtis lied and
>manipulated the entire campaign (until exposed by SWORD), let alone dim
>stole the residents seat for the housing authority - both of which are 
>clear
>violations of the struggle for community control which can never be
>reconciled as these contradictions stem from their republican allegiance.
>
>3. when and where is the next nbpc meeting?
>
>4. when and where is the next nbpc meeting?
>
>joe
>
>
> >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Question
> >Date: Wed, 09 Jan 1980 07:19:28 -0500
> >
> >Maybe this is moving forward,
> >
> > > Since we have ideological disagreements that prevent us from jointly
> > > >working on the edit board of U&S
> > >
> > > that is your position.
> > >
> >
> >Our ideological differences are not in my imaginzation. I assume your 
>point
> >is that
> >they don't prevent us from working together. I agree with that except 
>that
> >they do
> >prevent us from working on the edit board together.  That is not a six 
>year
> >mystical
> >grudge, we had two edit board meetings that degenerated into arguements
> >over very
> >fundamnetal political lines. While we agree on a number of points we have
> >fundamental
> >disagreements over the issue of the Afro-American national question and 
>the
> >woman
> >question. I am all for sorting those differences out in the newspaper but
> >not at the
> >edit board meetings.
> >
> > > >and since you have stated that our previuos relationship was
> > > exploitation
> > >
> > > keith, i plan on exploiting every resource at my disposal in order to
> >unite
> >
> >I am not interested in exploiting people who should be my allies. Your
> >response avoids
> >the point. A claim was made that your organziation was being exploited. 
>I'm
> >not
> >interested in maintaing such a relationship.
> >
> > > >what do you propose to do?
> > >
> > > i propose that we  put forward our ideological differences open and
> >above
> > > board through U&S and let the people, at the very least, participate 
>in
> >the
> > > development of our revolutionary analysis.
> > >
> >
> >I already asked Cliff but anyone from yr organziation could write 
>something
> >that is
> >around 300 words and we will respond and print it. I planned to do that
> >with the piece
> >that Cliff sent but it was 2000 words and I couldn't find a way to break 
>it
> >down. If
> >you want you could also break down that article into 300-400 word 
>sections
> >and we
> >could print it as a series with responses.
> >
> > >
> > > >this is not a rhetorical question. I would sincerely like to know.
> > >
> > > it is a good question & we ask the same of yourself. for you to 
>continue
> >to
> > > put forward that we cannot work together is going to work to isolate
> > > yourself.
> > >
> >
> >Here is were you lose me. You can't "ask the same of me". We had a 
>working
> >relationship and then you said that we were exploiting you. We refuse to 
>be
> >in any
> >relationship and then be told that we are exploiting people. So that's 
>why
> >I ask you
> >what you suggest. "We work together" is a little vague. I want to know
> >exactly what is
> >the relationship going to be that is not exploitative.Then we will  have
> >something to
> >talk about.
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1842
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-21 11:08:30
Subject:Fwd: MTV Scholarship Opportunity
Message:


>
>MTV Fight for Your Rights Leadership Scholarship Program.
>
>MTV is awarding five $50,000 scholarships to students who demonstrate an
>interest in and commitment to civil rights, who demonstrate leadership
>potential and who possess a notable academic record. One scholarship
>will be awarded on the national level and one each will be awarded to
>students who attend school in New York, Los Angeles County, Harris
>County in Texas, and Charlottesville, Virginia.
>
>The competition is open to U.S. residents who are between 16 and 24
>years of age and who are high school seniors or graduates, or full-time
>undergraduate students at accredited two or four-year colleges or
>universities. You can obtain more information and an application for
>the scholarship on the Web site listed below:
>
>
>                  www.FightforYourRights.MTV.com
>
>  Please note the application entry deadline of September 15, 2001.
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1843
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-22 11:07:59
Subject:Re: [njfo] Block on Locke
Message:

except that the members of U&S edit board have sabatoged every major 
political line that the edit board had come forward with for the last six 
years. and that has a direct relationship to the work i am trying to 
accomplish.

when U&S and myself has the same position on the election about beat bush2 
demand more from gore nix nader but members of U&S board don't put out that 
line and in fact expell myself, cliff and others that did put out that line 
there is need for concern and you must address my concern amiri - open and 
above board.

not only was U&S's analysis dissed, but keith and matthew and louise all 
worked as agents for the republican party during the entire campaign. so 
much so that keith received over 1900 votes as a registered republican.

trenton took notice of such things going on and rewarded frank bright, the 
chair of the new brunswick republican party, with an appointment to the 
housing authority. this is unprecedented for a republican to hold a position 
of office in new brunswick.

not only was U&S sabatoged, but the peoples' campaign platform of community 
control was sabatoged by the U&S edit board. and to suggest that this should 
be resolved in edit board meetings in insufficient to me.

your edit board is still in the peoples' campaign which is still organized 
with republicans and you need to explain how this has happened. backwards 
leadership is something you need to criticize yourself for amiri because it 
is U&S edit board that has organized more for the republicans than the 
republicans have ever accomplished in new brunswick.

if you want to act as if you have everything under control, i am going to 
have to see proof. and quick. three members of your edit board have 
initiated physical violence against me last time i encountered them. this 
also must be addressed by yourself.

as far as it seems your edit board must not close itself off to those 
interested in uniting revolutionaries - such a mistake will end the paper.

where is the new issue? i saw one copy when i met with ras saturday where 
are the rest? they need to be distributed?????!!!!!!

joe

>From: Amirib@...
>To: can_bush@...
>Subject: Re: [njfo] Block on Locke
>Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 18:34:51 EDT
>
>Let us deal with U&S matters at U&S editboard meetings. It seems to me, 
>that the whole election mess in NB is the result of backward leadership. 
>"Cure The Sickness, Save The Patient", sez Mao
>
>Re Gov race, wd be good to get a check list of differences between the two. 
>nOT ONL;Y TO DDRAW THE CONTRAST BUT TO MAKE SPECIFIC DEMANDS ON MCGREEVEY 
>DEMOCRATS,
>
>Our Line  is , roughly, " SMASH SCHUNDLER  & THE REPUBLICAN  RIGHT,  DEMAND 
>PEOPLES DEMOCRACY FROM MCGREEVEY, EXPOSE THE BUSH--REPUBLICAN SUPPORTING 
>LIBERALISM OF THE NADER- GREEN BERETS


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1844
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-22 11:19:44
Subject:Re: [nbpc] BRIAN VILLA requests your attention.
Message:

what has become detrimental? you must explain more clearly.

fuck tracy ford



>From: b v <villavoice@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: villavoice@...
>Subject: [nbpc] BRIAN VILLA requests your attention.
>Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:58:38 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Well, as I told some of you at Flavio's party, the
>Highland Park activities in question would become
>detrimental to New Brunswick activism activites. The
>Star-Ledger article is a political feast in waiting, a
>la the 1996/7 pro-appointed school board flyer in the
>outer reasches of Ward One. Check the numbers: they
>were devastating.
>
>I also pointed out to some that the effort behind
>Zofia's scheduled presentation on a public affairs
>matter should wait. The time is not right, and I do
>not see how the question can succeed given the
>electoral numbers. I calculate a 2,000 deficit.
>
>If one wishes, I can supply the breakdown and also aks
>many important institutional questions related to
>management issues relating to the aforementioned
>public affairs matter.
>
>I also hope that those who respond, won't attack me
>for being "weak" or whatever, such as "selling out."
>It's irrelevant to the issue, and it belies the fact
>that I've been working on a lawsuit of landmark status
>for three years and it's on the verge of blossing on
>the statewide scene.
>
>Caveat literator,
>
>Brian Villa
>
>
>********************
>FROM TODAY"S HOME NEWS:
>
>
>Group itself displays racism
>
>Racism is a virulent form of hate that must be dealt
>with straightforwardly, honestly and openly. It is
>with great interest that I have witnessed the bigotry
>in Highland Park be used as a political football by
>the People's Campaign.
>
>The People's Campaign has tried to tie bigotry to a
>rise of Nazism in Highland Park. True, bigotry does
>exist in Highland Park and a number of people
>associated with former Mayor James Polos have a
>provable history of racial intolerance. Additionally,
>the current mayor and council have not answered all
>the public's concerns on this matter definitively.
>However, the People's Campaign insistance that
>"bigotry is Nazism" is not directly linkable.
>
>If bigotry and Nazism were synonymous, then the
>People's Campaign could be judged as a Nazi hate group
>itself. Since the end of last year's election, most of
>its members are revolutionary socialists and they have
>demonstrable records of racial insensitivity, physical
>harassment and hysterical propaganda. Added to this,
>the lack of respect for women shown in the group
>points to misogyny
>
>Despite this, the People's Campaign has had the
>hypocritical fortitude to go to the Borough Council in
>Highland Park. Clearly, it was not discussed that most
>of the People's Campaign members are from out of town.
>Clearly, it was not discussed that their leader,
>Xavier Hansen, is moving out of Highland Park this
>summer. Clearly, it does not take a crystal ball to
>see that the People's Campaign has no intention of
>staying in Highland Park to improve the borough.
>
>As an Afro-American, I have a sincere desire to have
>real change stem from this glimpse into the dark side
>of Highland Park government. Clearly, the current
>administration has not been forthcoming. Clearly, the
>People's Campaign has jumped on this issue for selfish
>reasons. I hope that respectable leaders follow
>through in an unselfish way to reform the public works
>department and Highland Park so we can sincerely say
>"never again" to all forms of bigotry, racism and
>hate.
>
>Tracy Ford
>NEW BRUNSWICK
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
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Post ID:1845
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-22 23:45:26
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Reparations Urged for Slavery, Segregation--Human Rights Watch
Message:

******

Roth said reparations for past abuse should focus first on groups that
continue to suffer the most severe hardships. "We're not talking about a 
handout or a windfall," said Roth. "We are calling for long-term commitments 
to correct the damage done to the groups left most seriously disadvantaged."

******

1st this must be working women from oppressed nations.

a particular demand of reparations within the general democratic struggle.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Reparations Urged for Slavery, Segregation--Human Rights 
>Watch
>Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 06:25:44
>
>Reparations as a particular democratic demand:
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
>Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Human Rights Watch" <hrwatchnyc@...>
>To: <hrw-news@...>
>Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 1:00 PM
>Subject: Reparations Urged for Slavery, Segregation
>
>
>  > Reparations Urged for Slavery, Segregation
>  >
>  > (New York, July 19, 2001) In advance of a major international 
>conference
>  > on racism, Human Rights Watch today called for reparations to counter
>  > the most severe continuing effects of slavery, segregation, and other
>  > extreme forms of racism.
>  >
>  > Human Rights Watch said national and international panels should be
>  > created with maximum transparency and public participation to identify
>  > and acknowledge past abuses and to guide action to counter their
>  >                                      present-day effect.
>  >
>  > "Groups that suffer today because of slavery or other severe racist
>  >                                         practices should be compensated
>  > by governments responsible for these
>  >          practices," said Kenneth Roth, Executive Director of Human
>  > Rights                                              Watch. "Those most
>  > seriously victimized today by past wrongs should
>  >                       be the first priority for compensation to end
>  > their victimization."
>  >
>  > Roth said reparations for past abuse should focus first on groups that
>  >                                            continue to suffer the most
>  > severe hardships. "We're not talking about a handout or a windfall,"
>  > said Roth. "We are calling for long-term commitments to correct the
>  > damage done to the groups left most seriously disadvantaged."
>  >
>  > Human Rights Watch proposed the establishment of national panels, in
>  > multiracial countries such as the United States, Brazil and South
>  > Africa, as well as one or more international panels to look at the
>  > effect of the slave trade. These panels would focus on tracing these
>  > effects not for particular individuals but for groups.
>  >
>  > The panels should serve as truth commissions aiming to reveal the 
>extent
>  > to which a government's past racist practices contribute to 
>contemporary
>  > deprivation domestically and abroad, Roth said. They should educate the
>  > public, acknowledge responsibility, and propose methods of redress and
>  > making amends.
>  >
>  > A primary purpose of reparations would be to address the social and
>  > economic foundations of today's victims' continuing
>  > marginalization-through means such as investment in education, housing,
>  > health care, or job training.
>  >
>  > The question of compensation for slavery will be one of the most
>  > controversial topics when the U.N. World Conference Against Racism,
>  > Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia, and Related Intolerance meets in
>  > Durban, South Africa from August 31 to September 7.
>  >
>  > A copy of Human Rights Watch's position paper is available at:
>  >       http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/race/reparations.htm.
>  >
>  > For more information on race and human rights, please see:
>  >
>  > Racism & Human Rights (HRW Campaign Page) at
>  > http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/race/index.htm.
>  >
>  > ==^================================================================
>  > EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://igc.topica.com/u/?aVximT.aVFmvw
>  > Or send an email To: hrw-news-unsubscribe@...
>  > This email was sent to: howardnelson@...
>  >
>  > T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
>  > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
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>  >
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1846
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-23 18:12:22
Subject:Fwd: [motherlandcollective] Verse 4 Verse - Wed, July 25 @ The Bridge Club, Newark
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: Elisabeth Ssenjovu <essenjovu@...>
Reply-To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motherlandcollective] Verse 4 Verse - Wed, July 25 @ The Bridge 
Club, Newark
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 03:58:52 -0700 (PDT)


Verse 4 VersePoetry Cafe' Featured ArtistJamal St. JohnWith Special Guest 
Poet and Author of the Poetry Compilation "Release"Lyric Hosted by Ras 
Baraka and Juba DowdellWith Music Provided By "The Joint" Plus Open Mic 
Showcase @ The Brand New Bridge Club343 Washington St.Downtown Newark, NJ  
07102(b/w Court St. & William St.) Wednesday July 25, 2001 Doors Open @ 
7pmShowtime @ 8pm $8 Cover$10 After 10pm For Information on Obtaining 
"Release" by LyricGo to www.sincerity.ccFor More Information Contact Trevor 
Philips 800.424.3192



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Post ID:1847
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-23 18:13:24
Subject:Fwd: [motherlandcollective] no seat in the Park - Art Installation in Military Park
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: Elisabeth Ssenjovu <essenjovu@...>
Reply-To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motherlandcollective] no seat in the Park - Art Installation in 
Military Park
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 06:23:15 -0700 (PDT)


  FOR FURTHER INFORMATION:

ELISABETH SSENJOVU: 973-274-1660
NEWARK ARTS COUNCIL NEWS
17 Academy Street, Suite 1104, Newark, NJ 07102


For Immediate Release
7/12/01 / Newark, NJ

no seat in the Park:

Newark Arts Council Presents Temporary Art Installation

in Downtown Newark�s Military Park



A temporary art installation designed and fabricated by artist roycrosse and 
presented by the Newark Arts Council will open on Thursday, July 26 at 
4:00PM in Military Park in the Downtown Newark Arts District.

The exhibit will consist of a series of 15 miniature chairs suspended 10-15 
feet above the ground. The lightweight chairs are constructed from wire and 
fabric in bold, primary colors and are approximately 23�high x 12�wide x 
12�deep. The exhibition in Military Park is scheduled to run through 
September, 2001.



The objectives of the exhibition are to initiate community dialogue 
regarding the use and accessibility of public space in the urban landscape; 
to encourage collaboration through the arts between the business and 
philanthropic communities and the community at large; to create an arts 
destination for new City visitors; and to establish City-wide public art 
programs creating opportunities for regional artists. A conversation with 
roycrosse was held at the artist�s studio at 50 Columbia Street where he 
presented the concept and a model to supporters.



�The concept of exploring issues of urban development through art is a 
fantastic way to stimulate enthusiasm and interest in both art and our 
immediate surroundings. Supporting the work of artists not only welcomes new 
artists into our community but also encourages artists who are currently 
living here, to stay,� stated roycrosse at the studio presentation.



Supporters and sponsors of this innovative public art initiative include 
Rutgers Institute on Ethnicity, Culture and the Modern Experience; Newark 
Downtown District; Iandor Fine Arts Gallery; Aljira, a Center for 
Contemporary Art; Tree-Tech; Greater Newark Conservancy, Inc. and City 
Without Walls Gallery.



Dr. Clement A. Price, Director of Rutgers Institute on Ethnicity, Culture 
and the Modern Experience, quoted "This is fascinating and, I believe, an 
important way to encourage our fellow citizens to consider the unique role 
of the artist and artistic imagination in public places. Newark has so many 
public areas where artists like roycrosse can help nourish our civic 
consciousness. His installation at Military Park will do just that."



roycrosse, a Newark resident, is originally from Port of Spain, Trinidad, 
West Indies. He received formal art training at Ryerson and Center Tech 
School in Toronto, Canada. His work has been described as that which emerges 
�out of a deep reservoir of inherited visions and spiritual vitality� 
reflecting �the natural sensuality of the Caribbean world�and blending 
influences of Colonial Europe and Africa.� roycrosse has exhibited in Italy, 
Mexico, Canada, the Caribbean and throughout the United States.


For additional information, contact the Newark Arts Council at 973.643.1625.


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Post ID:1848
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-23 21:48:00
Subject:Re:Campus Greens' Founding Convention
Message:

if nader is so radical and progressive, why does his organization work for 
bush2? (you should read original arguements found below)

The people cannot win the presidency, and don't give me shit about the $$ - 
enough said! "well, we did it to get money."

The People cannot win the New Jersey Governor's race, we are not organized 
sufficiently at the moment, and the green party has worked only to 
strengthen the most destructive forces of imperialism by dividing the vote 
to bury bush2. The peoples' efforts must focus locally to win office, how 
can you type if you don't know the alphabet. In the state and national 
elections, our strategy is to waste the republicans to the best ability we 
can - the democrats to follow.

We cannot even elect our board of education in New Brunswick - so fuck 
Coleman, we can do without any signs in the neighborhood. I would urge any 
green efforts be focused upon registering your community to vote at all 
events. We can build allainces around local elections, but it is the greens 
who are responsible for bush2 and the people know it, and our enemies know 
it. The greens have seats here and there across the country, no real threat 
for seizing power, which is what our focus must be. The people need every 
city council seat, in every city to win the state's election, and every 
state to win the nation. The greens would take hitler to gore - that's 
terrific, that young man in italy was so very glad while he was shot and run 
over.

revolutionaries unite, win the advanced to communism!
Smash Schoundler!!

Ras Baraka for Newark City Council May 2002 - info coming - Isn't the head 
of the NJGreens chapter from Newark? fortune500 should have nothing else on 
his plate.

the people vs. imperialism
our struggle is not green, it is revolutionary.

joe smith
Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
13 James Street
New Brunswick NJ

Re: Gov race, wd be good to get a check list of differences between the two. 
  nOT ONL;Y TO DDRAW THE CONTRAST BUT TO MAKE SPECIFIC DEMANDS ON MCGREEVEY 
DEMOCRATS,

Our Line  is , roughly, " SMASH SCHUNDLER  & THE REPUBLICAN  RIGHT,  DEMAND 
PEOPLES DEMOCRACY FROM MCGREEVEY, EXPOSE THE BUSH--REPUBLICAN SUPPORTING 
LIBERALISM OF THE NADER- GREEN BERETS
(Unity & Struggle)



From: "Jane M. Hunter" <janemhunter@...>
To: <RUGreens@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [RUGreens] Fw: [gpnj-members] latest flyer on the Campus Greens' 
Founding Convention
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:17:44 -0400


----- Original Message -----
From: ecovillager@...
To: gpnj-members@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:57 AM
Subject: [gpnj-members] latest flyer on the Campus Greens' Founding 
Convention


Nader 2000 was only the beginning . . .

Announcing: Campus Greens Founding Convention

Thursday, August 9 through Sunday, August 12, 2001

University of Illinois-Chicago

* Speakers and panels will address the future of the Greens, the role of 
identity politics in progressive third parties, corporate power, and much 
more!

* Experienced activists will facilitate dozens of workshops on topics
including, but not limited to, organizing effective direct actions, running 
electoral campaigns, facilitating meetings and building consensus, 
challenging racism, and fighting for affordable housing and a living wage.

* Delegates from Campus Greens chapters around the country will craft 
bylaws, elect leadership, and develop a national organizing strategy for the 
year to come.

* Participants will join the Rogers Park Action Network and other 
progressive Chicago organizations for a massive march through Chicago for 
affordable housing.

* Register NOW to attend this historic founding convention, and take part in 
forming the future of the Green movement as we reclaim American Democracy!

Related event:

Campus Greens Rally for Radical Change
Friday, August 10
The Congress Theater, Chicago, IL

* Confirmed speakers and performers include Ralph Nader, Winona LaDuke,
Robert Miranda, and Jello Biafra

* Invited speakers and performers include Cynthia McKinney, Howard Zinn, 
Michael Moore, Amy Goodman, Ani Difranco, Radiohead, Common, Chuck D, Zach 
de la Rocha, and many, many more!

All those registered for the Campus Greens Founding Convention by Thursday, 
August 9, will get into the Rally FREE! All others: buy your tickets NOW!

Preparations... We only have four weeks left so don't put off making 
preparations! Here are just a few important things to keep in mind:

1) Chapter Registration - Remember it is much cheaper to attend this
convention as a registered chapter, and secures you Chapter rights and
privileges for the year. Check out our online Chapter Registration Form to 
register as a group or contact us at convention@... or
(608)-251-3529.

2) Convention Registration: Space is limited at the convention and we are 
expecting a huge crowd. Each and every convention attendee must register 
with us individually. Individual convention registration can be done on our 
webpage at www.campusgreens.org.

3) Housing Registration: The cheapest housing will likely go first, so
reserve your bed today! Options range from $5-$15 per night. Again space is 
limited so check out www.campusgreens.org right now to reserve your bed.

4) Transportation: Carpools, vans, and buses are being organized from all 
parts of the country. Contact us at carpool@... or
(608)-251-3529 to get on board.

The Campus Greens Founding Convention is shaping up to be one of the most 
important events for progressive organizers this summer . Don't miss out on 
your opportunity to take a leadership role in this exciting new 
organization.

Campus Greens
www.campusgreens.org
convention@...
(608) 251-3529

(GPNJ does not approve, endorse, or benefit from advertising herein.) to 
unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>gpnj-members-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1849
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-23 22:24:57
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: [motherlandcollective] Verse 4 Verse - Wed, July 25 @ The Bridge Club, Newark
Message:

terrific matt, maybe we should try and organize the newspaper?? there could 
be V4V announcements inside U&S, no?


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: [motherlandcollective] Verse 4 Verse - Wed, July 25 @ 
>The Bridge Club, Newark
>Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:12:22
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: Elisabeth Ssenjovu <essenjovu@...>
>Reply-To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
>To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [motherlandcollective] Verse 4 Verse - Wed, July 25 @ The Bridge
>Club, Newark
>Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 03:58:52 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>Verse 4 VersePoetry Cafe' Featured ArtistJamal St. JohnWith Special Guest
>Poet and Author of the Poetry Compilation "Release"Lyric Hosted by Ras
>Baraka and Juba DowdellWith Music Provided By "The Joint" Plus Open Mic
>Showcase @ The Brand New Bridge Club343 Washington St.Downtown Newark, NJ
>07102(b/w Court St. & William St.) Wednesday July 25, 2001 Doors Open @
>7pmShowtime @ 8pm $8 Cover$10 After 10pm For Information on Obtaining
>"Release" by LyricGo to www.sincerity.ccFor More Information Contact Trevor
>Philips 800.424.3192
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year!
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1850
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-23 22:25:56
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: [motherlandcollective] no seat in the Park - Art Installation in Military Park
Message:

i can't wait to hand out the july issue in august


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: [motherlandcollective] no seat in the Park - Art 
>Installation in Military Park
>Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:13:24
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: Elisabeth Ssenjovu <essenjovu@...>
>Reply-To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
>To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [motherlandcollective] no seat in the Park - Art Installation in
>Military Park
>Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 06:23:15 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>   FOR FURTHER INFORMATION:
>
>ELISABETH SSENJOVU: 973-274-1660
>NEWARK ARTS COUNCIL NEWS
>17 Academy Street, Suite 1104, Newark, NJ 07102
>
>
>For Immediate Release
>7/12/01 / Newark, NJ
>
>no seat in the Park:
>
>Newark Arts Council Presents Temporary Art Installation
>
>in Downtown Newark�s Military Park
>
>
>
>A temporary art installation designed and fabricated by artist roycrosse 
>and
>presented by the Newark Arts Council will open on Thursday, July 26 at
>4:00PM in Military Park in the Downtown Newark Arts District.
>
>The exhibit will consist of a series of 15 miniature chairs suspended 10-15
>feet above the ground. The lightweight chairs are constructed from wire and
>fabric in bold, primary colors and are approximately 23�high x 12�wide x
>12�deep. The exhibition in Military Park is scheduled to run through
>September, 2001.
>
>
>
>The objectives of the exhibition are to initiate community dialogue
>regarding the use and accessibility of public space in the urban landscape;
>to encourage collaboration through the arts between the business and
>philanthropic communities and the community at large; to create an arts
>destination for new City visitors; and to establish City-wide public art
>programs creating opportunities for regional artists. A conversation with
>roycrosse was held at the artist�s studio at 50 Columbia Street where he
>presented the concept and a model to supporters.
>
>
>
>�The concept of exploring issues of urban development through art is a
>fantastic way to stimulate enthusiasm and interest in both art and our
>immediate surroundings. Supporting the work of artists not only welcomes 
>new
>artists into our community but also encourages artists who are currently
>living here, to stay,� stated roycrosse at the studio presentation.
>
>
>
>Supporters and sponsors of this innovative public art initiative include
>Rutgers Institute on Ethnicity, Culture and the Modern Experience; Newark
>Downtown District; Iandor Fine Arts Gallery; Aljira, a Center for
>Contemporary Art; Tree-Tech; Greater Newark Conservancy, Inc. and City
>Without Walls Gallery.
>
>
>
>Dr. Clement A. Price, Director of Rutgers Institute on Ethnicity, Culture
>and the Modern Experience, quoted "This is fascinating and, I believe, an
>important way to encourage our fellow citizens to consider the unique role
>of the artist and artistic imagination in public places. Newark has so many
>public areas where artists like roycrosse can help nourish our civic
>consciousness. His installation at Military Park will do just that."
>
>
>
>roycrosse, a Newark resident, is originally from Port of Spain, Trinidad,
>West Indies. He received formal art training at Ryerson and Center Tech
>School in Toronto, Canada. His work has been described as that which 
>emerges
>�out of a deep reservoir of inherited visions and spiritual vitality�
>reflecting �the natural sensuality of the Caribbean world�and blending
>influences of Colonial Europe and Africa.� roycrosse has exhibited in 
>Italy,
>Mexico, Canada, the Caribbean and throughout the United States.
>
>
>For additional information, contact the Newark Arts Council at 
>973.643.1625.
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year!
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
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>
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>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1851
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-24 19:49:56
Subject:Re: DEA BUDGET
Message:

can someone open this attachment, if it goes through, and explain to me what 
it is so i can understand why i would receive this ananomous e-mail?

joe smith


>From: "|"<|..@...>
>To: can_bush@...
>Subject: DEA BUDGET
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:16:00 -0400
>
>Hi! How are you?
>
>I send you this file in order to have your advice
>
>See you later. Thanks
><< DEABUDGET.xls.lnk >>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1852
Sender:Dwayne Middleton <nia7@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-24 20:27:39
Subject:[Fwd: Fw: Verse 4 Verse Poetry Cafe]
Message:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1855
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-25 09:37:55
Subject:Re: Fwd: [njfo] Block on Locke
Message:

We have pointed out SWORD/BOL's line as an ultra-left inversion of the 
rightism that liquidated the Revolutionary Democratic character of the 
NBPeoples' Campaign--here's the best proof to date (sadly ironic that while 
we argue for them to participate in UF/PC, they propose expelling the only 
members of NJFO that stuck with U&S!) -Matt



From :
"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>

To :
jmodibo@..., vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@..., 
AmiriB@...

Subject :
Re: [njfo] Block on Locke

Date :
Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:43:43 -0400

the U&S edit board is organized with republicans!

i propose that the republicans be expelled from the new brunswick peoples'
campaign

keith joseph, louise and matthew smith, at least, all worked as agents for
the republican party during the past election. keith ran as a registered
republican for new brunswick city council and received over 1900 votes - the
incumbents won with 5300  so that's a large share of the vote.

you should be directing these questions towards keith matt and louise and
amiri for proper explanation because i am not satisfied with the explanation
i received.

i will be more than willing to inform you about the campaign more and answer
any questions you want to shoot my way.

is there any way you can get me originals of the july U&S so i can
distribute them?

joe


    From: Baker J Baker <jmodibo@...>
To: can_bush@..., AmiriB@...
CC: AmiriB@...
Subject: Re: [njfo] Block on Locke
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:15:17 -0400

I take serious a charge of sabotage, obviously the the  Joe show I'm
watching right now is a sitcom on petty bourgeoise chauvinism. The people
you advocate expelling are they traitors, reactionaries,
anti-Communists????

M.



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1856
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-25 13:26:11
Subject:Fwd: ¡LLAMA A VIEQUES: A VOTAR POR LA #2! (CALL VIEQUES: VOTE FOR #2!)
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Vieques Libre" <viequeslibre@...>
To: List Member <vivaohio@...>
Subject: �LLAMA A VIEQUES: A VOTAR POR LA #2! (CALL VIEQUES: VOTE FOR #2!)
Date: 25 Jul 2001 15:57:38 -0000

Vieques Libre - http://www.viequeslibre.org

--------------------------- ListBot Sponsor --------------------------
Sopranos fanatics, this one is for you.  Tony Soprano's autographed
Suburban is available for purchase on eBayTM.  James Gandolfini has
personally signed the vehicle.  Find this and over 800 other Sopranos
items for sale on eBay.
http://www.bcentral.com/listbot/ebay
----------------------------------------------------------------------

�LLAMA A TUS CONTACTOS EN VIEQUES Y RECU�RDALES QUE VOTEN POR LA OPCI�N #2
EN EL REFERENDUM DE ESTE DOMINGO!

(CALL YOUR CONTACTS IN VIEQUES AND REMIND THEM TO VOTE FOR OPTION #2 IN
THIS SUNDAY'S REFERENDUM!)


La opci�n #2 dispone para el cese inmediato y permanente de toda actividad
militar en Vieques, y la devoluci�n y descontaminaci�n de los terrenos.
Las otras dos opciones disponen para dos a�os m�s de bombardeos (la #1) o
para bombardeo indefinido (la #3).

(Option #2 provides for the immediate and permanent cease and desist of
all military activities in Vieques and for the return and decontamination
of the land.  The other options provide for bombing for two more years
(option #1) or for indefinite bombing (option #3)).


CADA VOTO CUENTA,
QUE NADIE SE QUEDE EN LA CASA EL DOMINGO,
A VOTAR POR LA #2
�Ni una Bomba M�s en Vieques. . .Fuera la Marina AHORA!


______________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, write to viequeslibre-unsubscribe@...



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1857
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-25 14:44:29
Subject:U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
Message:

To POP- We are forced to confront some unfinished business, with some regret 
as I would much rather show my support for the great work that this 
organization has been doing in the community in a more positive way.

That said, it is in the spirit of truth and justice to which we all endeavor 
that we must revisit the charges that Dave Hungerford leveled against U&S, 
to wit: "threatening violence against him repeatedly over the last three 
years."

Dismayed by his accusation, I demanded that he produce his evidence, as such 
charges, if unsubstantiated, can serve as manure for CoIntelPro as 
effectively as if they were true.  Responding that POP's public e-group list 
was not the place to air such "evidence" (although, curiously, his charges 
could be made publically) Dave would undermine any possibility of a public 
defense, choosing instead to send the "evidence" to me personally.  This is 
the sort of undemocratic and underhanded behavior that many outside of POP 
have come to expect from DH, so for the record let his "evidence" be known.  
(As DH has already sent these allegations over the digital wire, we should 
no longer be concerned with 'secrecy' issues--as we have said in the past, 
such transparent veils only hide one from the people, while the feds know 
just who you are...)


AS FOLLOWS:

----Original Message Follows----
From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Subject: requested information
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:40:35 -0400

Matthew:

1. In a paper titled "Once more against 'left-wing' communism and centrism' 
dated  /17/98, Max Haywood wrote:

If the lone 'Lefty' gets shot in the forest,
and there's no one to see it...
Is 'Lefty' dead?
Dead as a doornail, you better believe!

I have always taken this seriously. The question of what influence led 
Haywood to introduce a death threat is a good one.

2.  In June of 1999 Brian Coury telephoned me twice in dispute over a Zip 
drive. He wanted it and I refused to give it to him. In a distraught voice 
he threatened to come to my house for it. In another call he said he would 
see me at the upcoming Five Cities March against police brutality. His voice 
was loud and his meaning was clear. He did not show.

3.  In recent e-mails, Joseph McDonough twice called me a "coward." He did 
this after being removed from a listserv on other people's demand for 
abusing it - yet it was me with whom he attempted to incite something 
further.

David

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Choosing to maintain pseudonyms of DH's lost sheep of course makes it more 
confusing, but anyone could figure it out if they were in the least 
interested.  In defense of these absurd allegations:

1. "Max Haywood" hasn't been a part of U&S for over a year, and to extract 
this quote out of the context of the typically lengthy and verbose polemics 
that "Max" frequently issued in those days, and then to make believe that it 
was a "death threat" against Dave's person, is just out to lunch (folks 
ought to be asking why DH is privy to such documents, for starters)  To 
answer DH's question as to "why" this metaphore: I would suggest it may be 
related to the preoccupation with ultra-left terrorist guerilla 
organizations such as Peru's Shining Path that young revolutionaries were 
taught to emulate by our once fearless leader turned green. (Wonder where 
his "boycott election" line originates--Peru was sentenced to 10 years hard 
time under dictator Fujimori as a result of the same line that brought us 
Giulliani, Bush, & next, Schundler?)

2. Dave admits that he stole our organizations equipment and is upset that 
we wanted it back?! (That's not all, he also stole U&S' domain name, and 
forged his own website at that address.) -Still, I don't see the violent 
threat here.

3. Why he associates this final charge with U&S is anyone's guess.  
"McDonough" was never on U&S edit board, and hasn't been a member of an 
organization on U&S edit board since DH led his expulsion from CU 4-5years 
ago--FOR INSISTING THAT THERE ARE CONTRADICTIONS BETWEEN DEMS & REPS, btw!  
(anyhow, can "McDonough" be blamed for expressing his frustration with DH's 
practice of "jab & duck, jab & duck"...but again, for the sake of argument, 
where's the violent threat?


It has been made clear to me by some POP members that they are fed up with 
this debate between two "camps".  To them, I reiterate that I would rather 
my contribution to POP come in more positive form in the future.  However, 
it is unacceptible that someone be able to use an organization to manuever 
in this underhanded manner, only to seek cover behind pretences of playing 
the victim.  As I said before, I've seen too many people get hurt by DH 
line, and the truth will come out, and if we are to help resolve the 
contradictions in society, we must be willing to face the ones internally.

In the Struggle for Unity, Matthew Smith

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1858
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 11:49:42
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Fwd: [njfo] Block on Locke
Message:

joe wrote:
i propose that the republicans be expelled from the new brunswick peoples' 
campaign

    what part of this has to do with you matt?

matt wrote:
while we argue for them to participate in UF/PC

    who are you arguing with and where does this arguement take place?
    when is the vote?

your "proof" is something you create in your mind because in reality all i 
do is organize for revolutionary democracy. where as you and members of the 
U&S edit board organized racist republican bright onto the housing authority 
and are still organized with republicans. i would appreciate an answer to 
those 3 questions via reply all.

joe smith

>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: Amirib@..., jmodibo@..., nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, 
>mauracarey@..., mcsmith74@..., traceyx@...
>CC: keithjoseph99@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Fwd: [njfo] Block on Locke
>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:37:55
>
>We have pointed out SWORD/BOL's line as an ultra-left inversion of the
>rightism that liquidated the Revolutionary Democratic character of the
>NBPeoples' Campaign--here's the best proof to date (sadly ironic that while
>we argue for them to participate in UF/PC, they propose expelling the only
>members of NJFO that stuck with U&S!) -Matt
>
>
>
>From :
>"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>
>To :
>jmodibo@..., vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...,
>AmiriB@...
>
>Subject :
>Re: [njfo] Block on Locke
>
>Date :
>Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:43:43 -0400
>
>the U&S edit board is organized with republicans!
>
>i propose that the republicans be expelled from the new brunswick peoples'
>campaign
>
>keith joseph, louise and matthew smith, at least, all worked as agents for
>the republican party during the past election. keith ran as a registered
>republican for new brunswick city council and received over 1900 votes - 
>the
>incumbents won with 5300  so that's a large share of the vote.
>
>you should be directing these questions towards keith matt and louise and
>amiri for proper explanation because i am not satisfied with the 
>explanation
>i received.
>
>i will be more than willing to inform you about the campaign more and 
>answer
>any questions you want to shoot my way.
>
>is there any way you can get me originals of the july U&S so i can
>distribute them?
>
>joe
>
>
>     From: Baker J Baker <jmodibo@...>
>To: can_bush@..., AmiriB@...
>CC: AmiriB@...
>Subject: Re: [njfo] Block on Locke
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:15:17 -0400
>
>I take serious a charge of sabotage, obviously the the  Joe show I'm
>watching right now is a sitcom on petty bourgeoise chauvinism. The people
>you advocate expelling are they traitors, reactionaries,
>anti-Communists????
>
>M.
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1859
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 11:52:41
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: ¡LLAMA A VIEQUES: A VOTAR POR LA #2! (CALL VIEQUES: VOTE FOR #2!)
Message:

matt, where is the new issue of U&S?

i saw one that said july issue  and there are only 4 days left in the month 
and i'm wondering who is responsible for not putting it out?

joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: �LLAMA A VIEQUES: A VOTAR POR LA #2! (CALL VIEQUES: 
>VOTE FOR #2!)
>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:26:11
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Vieques Libre" <viequeslibre@...>
>To: List Member <vivaohio@...>
>Subject: �LLAMA A VIEQUES: A VOTAR POR LA #2! (CALL VIEQUES: VOTE FOR #2!)
>Date: 25 Jul 2001 15:57:38 -0000
>
>Vieques Libre - http://www.viequeslibre.org
>
>--------------------------- ListBot Sponsor --------------------------
>Sopranos fanatics, this one is for you.  Tony Soprano's autographed
>Suburban is available for purchase on eBayTM.  James Gandolfini has
>personally signed the vehicle.  Find this and over 800 other Sopranos
>items for sale on eBay.
>http://www.bcentral.com/listbot/ebay
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>�LLAMA A TUS CONTACTOS EN VIEQUES Y RECU�RDALES QUE VOTEN POR LA OPCI�N #2
>EN EL REFERENDUM DE ESTE DOMINGO!
>
>(CALL YOUR CONTACTS IN VIEQUES AND REMIND THEM TO VOTE FOR OPTION #2 IN
>THIS SUNDAY'S REFERENDUM!)
>
>
>La opci�n #2 dispone para el cese inmediato y permanente de toda actividad
>militar en Vieques, y la devoluci�n y descontaminaci�n de los terrenos.
>Las otras dos opciones disponen para dos a�os m�s de bombardeos (la #1) o
>para bombardeo indefinido (la #3).
>
>(Option #2 provides for the immediate and permanent cease and desist of
>all military activities in Vieques and for the return and decontamination
>of the land.  The other options provide for bombing for two more years
>(option #1) or for indefinite bombing (option #3)).
>
>
>CADA VOTO CUENTA,
>QUE NADIE SE QUEDE EN LA CASA EL DOMINGO,
>A VOTAR POR LA #2
>�Ni una Bomba M�s en Vieques. . .Fuera la Marina AHORA!
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>To unsubscribe, write to viequeslibre-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1860
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 12:03:17
Subject:Re: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
Message:

you should just argue the question of where are these 
progressives/revolutionaries at while ras baraka is running for Newark City 
Council? dave is in Newark as well is fortuncookie in Newark and these 
people should not be welcome to walk down the street if they don't work on 
ras' campaign.

that said, where is the paper? how can i get one?

joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, 
>traceyx@..., mcsmith74@..., amirib@..., 
>lknesta@..., lknesta@..., MeadHajduk@...
>Subject: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:44:29
>
>
>To POP- We are forced to confront some unfinished business, with some 
>regret
>as I would much rather show my support for the great work that this
>organization has been doing in the community in a more positive way.
>
>That said, it is in the spirit of truth and justice to which we all 
>endeavor
>that we must revisit the charges that Dave Hungerford leveled against U&S,
>to wit: "threatening violence against him repeatedly over the last three
>years."
>
>Dismayed by his accusation, I demanded that he produce his evidence, as 
>such
>charges, if unsubstantiated, can serve as manure for CoIntelPro as
>effectively as if they were true.  Responding that POP's public e-group 
>list
>was not the place to air such "evidence" (although, curiously, his charges
>could be made publically) Dave would undermine any possibility of a public
>defense, choosing instead to send the "evidence" to me personally.  This is
>the sort of undemocratic and underhanded behavior that many outside of POP
>have come to expect from DH, so for the record let his "evidence" be known.
>(As DH has already sent these allegations over the digital wire, we should
>no longer be concerned with 'secrecy' issues--as we have said in the past,
>such transparent veils only hide one from the people, while the feds know
>just who you are...)
>
>
>AS FOLLOWS:
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Subject: requested information
>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:40:35 -0400
>
>Matthew:
>
>1. In a paper titled "Once more against 'left-wing' communism and centrism'
>dated  /17/98, Max Haywood wrote:
>
>If the lone 'Lefty' gets shot in the forest,
>and there's no one to see it...
>Is 'Lefty' dead?
>Dead as a doornail, you better believe!
>
>I have always taken this seriously. The question of what influence led
>Haywood to introduce a death threat is a good one.
>
>2.  In June of 1999 Brian Coury telephoned me twice in dispute over a Zip
>drive. He wanted it and I refused to give it to him. In a distraught voice
>he threatened to come to my house for it. In another call he said he would
>see me at the upcoming Five Cities March against police brutality. His 
>voice
>was loud and his meaning was clear. He did not show.
>
>3.  In recent e-mails, Joseph McDonough twice called me a "coward." He did
>this after being removed from a listserv on other people's demand for
>abusing it - yet it was me with whom he attempted to incite something
>further.
>
>David
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Choosing to maintain pseudonyms of DH's lost sheep of course makes it more
>confusing, but anyone could figure it out if they were in the least
>interested.  In defense of these absurd allegations:
>
>1. "Max Haywood" hasn't been a part of U&S for over a year, and to extract
>this quote out of the context of the typically lengthy and verbose polemics
>that "Max" frequently issued in those days, and then to make believe that 
>it
>was a "death threat" against Dave's person, is just out to lunch (folks
>ought to be asking why DH is privy to such documents, for starters)  To
>answer DH's question as to "why" this metaphore: I would suggest it may be
>related to the preoccupation with ultra-left terrorist guerilla
>organizations such as Peru's Shining Path that young revolutionaries were
>taught to emulate by our once fearless leader turned green. (Wonder where
>his "boycott election" line originates--Peru was sentenced to 10 years hard
>time under dictator Fujimori as a result of the same line that brought us
>Giulliani, Bush, & next, Schundler?)
>
>2. Dave admits that he stole our organizations equipment and is upset that
>we wanted it back?! (That's not all, he also stole U&S' domain name, and
>forged his own website at that address.) -Still, I don't see the violent
>threat here.
>
>3. Why he associates this final charge with U&S is anyone's guess.
>"McDonough" was never on U&S edit board, and hasn't been a member of an
>organization on U&S edit board since DH led his expulsion from CU 4-5years
>ago--FOR INSISTING THAT THERE ARE CONTRADICTIONS BETWEEN DEMS & REPS, btw!
>(anyhow, can "McDonough" be blamed for expressing his frustration with DH's
>practice of "jab & duck, jab & duck"...but again, for the sake of argument,
>where's the violent threat?
>
>
>It has been made clear to me by some POP members that they are fed up with
>this debate between two "camps".  To them, I reiterate that I would rather
>my contribution to POP come in more positive form in the future.  However,
>it is unacceptible that someone be able to use an organization to manuever
>in this underhanded manner, only to seek cover behind pretences of playing
>the victim.  As I said before, I've seen too many people get hurt by DH
>line, and the truth will come out, and if we are to help resolve the
>contradictions in society, we must be willing to face the ones internally.
>
>In the Struggle for Unity, Matthew Smith
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1861
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 12:06:00
Subject:Re: [onepeoplesproject] Bush's anti-gay remarks
Message:

we should beat him upside the head with july's issue of U&S!

joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
>To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [onepeoplesproject] Bush's anti-gay remarks
>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:45:43
>
>what's the date & location this quote came from?  We should beat that
>ignorant maniac upside the head with this quote.
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: <dlj@...>
>Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
>To: "Community Action Against Racism (CAAR)" <unite@...>, "Coalition
>For Justice" <coalitionforjustice@egroups.com>, "Mob Action"
><mobaction@egroups.com>, "New Jersey Freedom Organization"
><njfo@egroups.com>, "One People's Project (Egroups)"
><onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>, "People's Organization For Progress"
><poprogress@egroups.com>
>Subject: [onepeoplesproject] Bush's anti-gay remarks
>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:24:37 -0400
>
>From Oread Daily
>
>Here he comes. There he goes. President Bush says he plans to attend the
>National Scout Jamboree in Virginia on Sunday, joining more than 32,000 
>boys
>in a quadrennial gathering known as ``the Olympics of Boy Scouting.'' Back
>when, Bush accused the Clinton administration of threatening to throw the
>Boy Scouts off federal land following the dispute over the Scouts policy of
>excluding gay scout leaders. Bush, of course, supported that policy.
>Apparently, he feels safe enough to now go hang out. The President
>commented, "I�ve always been a target of gay men. I understand that. I am
>pretty good looking you know. However, the Scout�s policy of keeping the
>fa�, I mean homosexuals out of the organization, leads me to believe I can
>make this trip without any concerns�if you know what I mean." The President
>flashed his familiar smirk as he made these comments.
>
>
>
>IF YOU CONTINUE TO THINK AS YOU ALWAYS THOUGHT, YOU WILL CONTINUE TO GET
>WHAT YOU ALWAYS GOT!
>
>VISIT THE ONE PEOPLE'S PROJECT WEBSITE:
>http://www.onepeople.mysticalzone.net
>
>ALSO VISIT OUR IRC CHANNEL:
>#oprchat at dalnet
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>onepeoplesproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
>IF YOU CONTINUE TO THINK AS YOU ALWAYS THOUGHT, YOU WILL CONTINUE TO GET 
>WHAT YOU ALWAYS GOT!
>
>VISIT THE ONE PEOPLE'S PROJECT WEBSITE:
>http://www.onepeople.mysticalzone.net
>
>ALSO VISIT OUR IRC CHANNEL:
>#oprchat at dalnet
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>onepeoplesproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1863
Sender:"Tracey Luszcz" <traceyx@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 12:19:42
Subject:Re: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
Message:



>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, poprogress@yahoogroups.com, 
>traceyx@..., mcsmith74@..., amirib@..., 
>lknesta@..., lknesta@..., MeadHajduk@...
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:03:17 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Received: from 24.190.56.33 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;Thu, 
>26 Jul 2001 16:03:17 GMT
>
>
>you should just argue the question of where are these 
>progressives/revolutionaries at while ras baraka is running for Newark City 
>Council? dave is in Newark as well is fortuncookie in Newark and these 
>people should not be welcome to walk down the street if they don't work on 
>ras' campaign.
>
>that said, where is the paper? how can i get one?
>
>joe
>
>
>>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, 
>>traceyx@..., mcsmith74@..., amirib@..., 
>>lknesta@..., lknesta@..., MeadHajduk@...
>>Subject: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
>>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:44:29
>>
>>
>>To POP- We are forced to confront some unfinished business, with some 
>>regret
>>as I would much rather show my support for the great work that this
>>organization has been doing in the community in a more positive way.
>>
>>That said, it is in the spirit of truth and justice to which we all 
>>endeavor
>>that we must revisit the charges that Dave Hungerford leveled against U&S,
>>to wit: "threatening violence against him repeatedly over the last three
>>years."
>>
>>Dismayed by his accusation, I demanded that he produce his evidence, as 
>>such
>>charges, if unsubstantiated, can serve as manure for CoIntelPro as
>>effectively as if they were true.  Responding that POP's public e-group 
>>list
>>was not the place to air such "evidence" (although, curiously, his charges
>>could be made publically) Dave would undermine any possibility of a public
>>defense, choosing instead to send the "evidence" to me personally.  This 
>>is
>>the sort of undemocratic and underhanded behavior that many outside of POP
>>have come to expect from DH, so for the record let his "evidence" be 
>>known.
>>(As DH has already sent these allegations over the digital wire, we should
>>no longer be concerned with 'secrecy' issues--as we have said in the past,
>>such transparent veils only hide one from the people, while the feds know
>>just who you are...)
>>
>>
>>AS FOLLOWS:
>>
>>----Original Message Follows----
>>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>>To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>>Subject: requested information
>>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:40:35 -0400
>>
>>Matthew:
>>
>>1. In a paper titled "Once more against 'left-wing' communism and 
>>centrism'
>>dated  /17/98, Max Haywood wrote:
>>
>>If the lone 'Lefty' gets shot in the forest,
>>and there's no one to see it...
>>Is 'Lefty' dead?
>>Dead as a doornail, you better believe!
>>
>>I have always taken this seriously. The question of what influence led
>>Haywood to introduce a death threat is a good one.
>>
>>2.  In June of 1999 Brian Coury telephoned me twice in dispute over a Zip
>>drive. He wanted it and I refused to give it to him. In a distraught voice
>>he threatened to come to my house for it. In another call he said he would
>>see me at the upcoming Five Cities March against police brutality. His 
>>voice
>>was loud and his meaning was clear. He did not show.
>>
>>3.  In recent e-mails, Joseph McDonough twice called me a "coward." He did
>>this after being removed from a listserv on other people's demand for
>>abusing it - yet it was me with whom he attempted to incite something
>>further.
>>
>>David
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Choosing to maintain pseudonyms of DH's lost sheep of course makes it more
>>confusing, but anyone could figure it out if they were in the least
>>interested.  In defense of these absurd allegations:
>>
>>1. "Max Haywood" hasn't been a part of U&S for over a year, and to extract
>>this quote out of the context of the typically lengthy and verbose 
>>polemics
>>that "Max" frequently issued in those days, and then to make believe that 
>>it
>>was a "death threat" against Dave's person, is just out to lunch (folks
>>ought to be asking why DH is privy to such documents, for starters)  To
>>answer DH's question as to "why" this metaphore: I would suggest it may be
>>related to the preoccupation with ultra-left terrorist guerilla
>>organizations such as Peru's Shining Path that young revolutionaries were
>>taught to emulate by our once fearless leader turned green. (Wonder where
>>his "boycott election" line originates--Peru was sentenced to 10 years 
>>hard
>>time under dictator Fujimori as a result of the same line that brought us
>>Giulliani, Bush, & next, Schundler?)
>>
>>2. Dave admits that he stole our organizations equipment and is upset that
>>we wanted it back?! (That's not all, he also stole U&S' domain name, and
>>forged his own website at that address.) -Still, I don't see the violent
>>threat here.
>>
>>3. Why he associates this final charge with U&S is anyone's guess.
>>"McDonough" was never on U&S edit board, and hasn't been a member of an
>>organization on U&S edit board since DH led his expulsion from CU 4-5years
>>ago--FOR INSISTING THAT THERE ARE CONTRADICTIONS BETWEEN DEMS & REPS, btw!
>>(anyhow, can "McDonough" be blamed for expressing his frustration with 
>>DH's
>>practice of "jab & duck, jab & duck"...but again, for the sake of 
>>argument,
>>where's the violent threat?
>>
>>
>>It has been made clear to me by some POP members that they are fed up with
>>this debate between two "camps".  To them, I reiterate that I would rather
>>my contribution to POP come in more positive form in the future.  However,
>>it is unacceptible that someone be able to use an organization to manuever
>>in this underhanded manner, only to seek cover behind pretences of playing
>>the victim.  As I said before, I've seen too many people get hurt by DH
>>line, and the truth will come out, and if we are to help resolve the
>>contradictions in society, we must be willing to face the ones internally.
>>
>>In the Struggle for Unity, Matthew Smith
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>
>
For the record, I have no affiliation with this type of organizing, I have 
nothing but the utmost respect for Joe Fortunato and the work I have seen 
him do in POP, an organization that is comprised of some of the most 
dedicated individuals I have ever met. SUffice to say, attending graduate 
school makes it very difficult for me to participate on this level, but let 
me just say that, to Block on Lock, just becuase you put up some fliers, you 
do not have the privilege of obstructing constructive debate, of obstructing 
people's positive efforts, etc. Who do you speak for when you say people 
don't have the right to walk down the street if they don't participate in 
someone's campaign? IS this your application of Revolutionaries Unite? Do 
you think this will encourage people to join Ras' campaign? Do you think 
people working on the campaign would appreciate you rallying the masses in 
this way? It is sad to see you, like this, so far removed from reality and 
reducing the struggle to petty nonsense and posturing. THis type of debate 
does not inspire people to think, critically about how to improve strategy, 
it shuts people off and turns them away. IT is the same as when you 
threatened other revolutionaries at Kimoko's Blues People becuase you didn't 
appreciate the way the debate was going.   You really need to assess your 
position in the movement, what are you trying to accomplish? What 
institution building is going on as a result of your diatribes?
Tracey

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1864
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 12:50:59
Subject:curious about something....
Message:

Do the members of this egroup have something relevant to New 
Brunswick and more particularly to the NBPC to write about?  Or is it 
just going to be charges and countercharges about U&S, Newark 
politics and the rest?

Given the irrelevant drivel I have been reading here, I am beginning 
to think that the Membership did not go far enough when it ordered 
the creation of nbpcmembers without ordering the shutdown of this 
board.









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1865
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 12:55:20
Subject:Re: [njfo] Block on Locke
Message:

i sign people up. i jeopardize nothing with my method, but you can continue 
to examine.

17 year olds can register if they turn 18 before vote. check if you wish 
with the county commissioners office of essex county. this is because they 
have a deadline to register voters and if someone's birthday is after the 
deadline but before the vote they have the right to vote.

the two people i signed up that cannot vote was clearly noted both on the 
form in large words and through verbal communication from myself to the 
organizer in charge of collecting the forms -
one was not a citizen, one was 15. i registered 19 other people to vote that 
day and signed up 5 small businesses that said they would display a 
clipboard with voter registration forms. this was the best production the 
weekend canvass has received, the high water mark if you will.

it's funny amiri that you should send your post to matthew and keith who 
will no doubt agree with you, with that bobble head action they perfected in 
your basement, but where are they? and where is U&S july issue? how many 
people has their "ideology" registered or signed up for ras? AT THE VERY 
LEAST MY IDEOLOGY BRINGS ME TO THE STREETS OF NEWARK EVERY SATURDAY AND 
SUNDAY WITH AS MANY PEOPLES I CAN FIT IN MY CAR JERK

amiri said:
But under no circumstances do we need people who cannot follow directions 
and seem to loathe the discipline of collective operation.

liar,  we bring more people from new brunswick to the "collective operation" 
of signing people up for ras and registering voters. on this past sunday NO 
ONE FROM NEWARK EVEN WENT OUT WITH US (8 or 9 people from new brunswick). i 
would suggest that you need all the help you can get. if people need to find 
me they can call, trevor and i both have cell phones.

i not going to let one person on the street walk past me because i'm 
following directions. i'd rather walk with that person, register them to 
vote and then fight with you about it on wednesday then to let people walk 
by me while ras comes in fifth.

you want me off the "campaign" then do it. i'll still out produce anyone 
every weekend that i can be there. and then where will your position on me 
be cause you're already in left field.

do you suggest that we shouldn't talk to people about why they don't have 
the right to vote and explain to them that we need to build an organization 
to support their right to vote and then sign them up? we now have 2 people 
signed up, name address and phone #,  that are willing to fight for the 
right to vote, how many did we have before?

fuck you with your anarchist charge. your edit board is organized with 
republicans and your boy keith just received over 1900 votes as a registered 
republican for new brunswick city council. even further, i would be willing 
to organize with anarchists if they would register voters in newark on 
saturday and sunday.

joe smith




>From: Amirib@...
>To: vivaohio@..., jmodibo@...
>CC: can_bush@..., keithjoseph99@...
>Subject: Re: [njfo] Block on Locke
>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:00:23 EDT
>
>All As a direct response to one example of a kind of  pb liberalism, it has
>come to my attention that on the weekend voter registration canvassing 
>there
>has been incidents of undisciplined anarchist behaviour which jeopardizes 
>the
>whole project.
>While Ras campaign needs all who are willing to help with the canvassing,
>side trips,. unauthorized often unlawful activities, such as trying to
>"register" underaged persons, leaving the assigned route, causing other
>volunteens to be pulled away from their work to "monitor" persons who 
>cannot
>or will not folllow directions cannot be repeated.
>        Canvassers should come to 808 Before going out, to received
>instructions, route, equipment from Trevor or those assigned. After the
>canvass they should return. But under no circumstances do we need people 
>who
>cannot follow directions and seem to loathe the discipline of collective
>operation.
>
>        The Anarchist and to some extent chauvinist (I know better than you
>all because I am who I am) antics must be discarded. We are trying to
>organize the people and win an election.It is serious and our methods are
>shaped by planning.
>
>The spontaneous , undisciplined, will not take orders , subjectivism is
>reactionary. Method expresses ideology.


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1866
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 13:21:01
Subject:Re: [njfo] Block on Locke
Message:

louise keith and matt are all on the U&S edit board as well as organized in 
the peoples' campaign with republicans. what does your opinion of my 
credibility have to so with it keith?

i will perform a check of when keith resigned from the republican party, 
this is the first i have heard that it was before the election.

keith said:
The mistake in my opinion was that we allowed that activity to compromise 
our political line. that is this alliance with the local republicans against 
the local incumbent democrats was used as a reason not to push our political 
line Beat Bush etc. because it would upset our republican allies

that is how U&S's position on the election "Beat Bush!" was sabotaged.

keith said:
Yr statement about republicans in U&S is not only an outright lie.

i never said republicans are in U&S, so where's the lie?

keith said:
Firstly, I was the only one of the people you mentioned who did any work to 
get Frank Bright elected Chair of the local organization.

matt and louise if not doing actual activities where definitely involved in 
the plan and never raised any open opposition, so as far as i'm concerned 
they were down. that's like saying matt and louise had nothing to do with us 
being expelled because the expulsion happened at a steering committee 
meeting that they were not at, though all their method and ideology support 
my expulsion just as it supported joing the republicans.

i say the peoples' campaign should embrace U&S, funny i'm the one suggesting 
that while you are in the peoples' campaign and on the U&S edit board.


joe


>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
>To: can_bush@..., jmodibo@..., vivaohio@..., 
>AmiriB@...
>Subject: Re: [njfo] Block on Locke
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 03:23:49 +0000
>
>Joe,
>you wrote: "the U&S edit board is organized with republicans!"
>
>when you say things like that you lose what little credibility you have 
>left. We have already gone through this. Members of the People's Campaign 
>myself included joined the local republican organization last year to get 
>Frank Bright elected chair of the organization. We did this in order to get 
>an office and paid poll workers for election day. The mistake in my opinion 
>was that we allowed that activity to compromise our political line. that is 
>this alliance with the local republicans against the local incumbent 
>democrats was used as a reason not to push our political line Beat Bush 
>etc. because it would upset our republican allies. Additionally we made an 
>alliance with the Greens against the local democrats. The opportunism was 
>to sacrifice the long term, national and even international interests of 
>the working class to short term local interests. This was a serious mistake 
>and one that not only should be criticized but has been criticized. 
>Rectifying the errors will be a somewhat long process because on the right 
>we have people who refuse to acknowledge errors and on the ultra-left we 
>have self serving and outlandish accusations as replacement of any serious 
>analysis and cinstructive critique.
>Yr statement about republicans in U&S is not only an outright lie. It is 
>some sort of self serving bourgeois scandal seeking but I have yet to 
>understand its purpose.
>
>Joe goes on:
>"keith joseph, louise and matthew smith, at least, all worked as
>>agents for the republican party during the past election. keith ran as a 
>>registered republican for new brunswick city council and received over 
>>1900 votes - the incumbents won with 5300  so that's a large share of the 
>>vote."
>
>This is also a lie. Firstly, I was the only one of the people you mentioned 
>who did any work to get Frank Bright elected Chair of the local 
>organization. I resigned from the republican organization after Frank 
>Bright became chair of the organization and I didn't run as a "registered 
>republican", I ran as a candidate of the People's Campaign. Why lie?
>
>As far as the People's Campaign goes the republicans are being expelled 
>from the people's campaign. The odds of getting you and yr brother 
>re-instated are slim at present. Somehow you haven't made yrselves very 
>popular with the current membership.
>     One reason might be that you dogmatically push an ultra-left line. And 
>when people don't go for it you or yr brother announce that they are "under 
>suspicion". This is the same line that puts forward "the People's Campaign 
>should embrace U&S". The entire People's Campaign as an organization 
>doesn't need to "embrace U&S." For one thing the People's Campaign is an 
>attempt (one that has made many mistakes) to build a mass organization 
>around people's democracy. U&S is a M-L newspaper. Your line to mash 
>Marxism-Leninism on a mass based organization is ultra-left and would be a 
>repeat as farce of recent history.
>     The thing to do with U&S and the people's campaign is try to expand 
>the influence of its political line, get people to voluntarily participate 
>in its work. Hand it out at meetings, try to get people to help out and 
>contribute to it, to use it to build a local circle of revolutionaries 
>towards the goal of uniting with other such circles and building a national 
>organziation of revolutionaries as part of the motion towards a people's 
>democarcy
>
>Joe wrote:
>"amiri, you also must hold U&S edit board responsible for sabotaging
>>U&S"
>
>I don't know what that means. The edit board is responsible for getting U&S 
>out and is also responsible for its not getting out. You keep saying 
>"sabotage" like its pee wee herman's word of the day. but whats yr point?  
>We are starting at ground zero in a time when revolutionaries have been 
>scattered in a disorganized retreat. And you're running around like a 
>maniac who will single handedly bring forth the revolution as a result of 
>his own frenzied activity and raving accusations at anyone not interested 
>participating in yr furor. This is a protracted struggle, your treating a 
>marathon like a 40 yard dash.
>    There are plenty of things to criticize about U&S but yours are not 
>constructive. U&S has just begun to appear regularly for the first time in 
>a long time, we finally got to a point approaching regularity, the content 
>and political line have been improving and we are getting close to a 
>newspaper that we can get in stores and newsstands, that is that can be 
>distributed widely and regularly and at some level of professionalism. The 
>point is that we are moving forward maybe too slowly for you, but for those 
>of us who have already tried the frenzied approach and have seen it lead to 
>nothing, we are very optimistic about our current effort.
>So what's being "sabotaged"?
>
>You were invited to two edit board meetings. It was like being awake in a 
>nightmare. Despite what you think those meetings delayed the 
>re-organization of the paper rather than advance it.
>
>We are trying to find ways to unite, but I don't see how unity is possible 
>when all you can do is lie and make wild and unfounded accusations. And 
>then do yr martyr routine.
>
>Keith
>
>ps. I included a piece below that I submitted to the People's Campign, 
>Where I try to sum up some of the mistakes that I mentioned above and 
>propose a re-orienatation for the campaign.
>
>>What to do?
>
>     Since the February 2001 meeting the People's Campaign has become 
>increasing disoriented and isolated from any base whatsoever. The meetings 
>following February have been characterized by petty intrigues, petty 
>debates about organizational structure, expulsions, and a general crisis of 
>identity. I think this state is recognized by most but few are clear enough 
>or willing enough to admit it. This state of affairs has come about because 
>of a bad strategy that was initiated at the founding meeting of the 
>campaign in January of 2000. The strategy that was put into motion at said 
>meeting was a united front against local the democratic party. This 
>strategy saw the local democratic party as the main target and then sought 
>allies on that basis leading us to ally ourselves with republicans among 
>others. Our out look was short sighted, narrow and parochial.
>     Instead of strategizing to build a movement over the long term we 
>thought only in terms of the upcoming election. This is a recipe for 
>failure and has put us in the position we are in today. It has confused the 
>organization and those associated with it to the point of paralysis. The 
>last meetings resolution to have two main objectives for the campaign 
>(democracy ordinance and mayor's election 2000) is just more wandering in 
>the wilderness.
>     What we need is a ground up re-organization that begins with a sum up 
>of our success and failures in our last attempt. This must include a 
>critique of the faulty strategy that I already mentioned and include a new 
>orientation. The new orientation should begin with a strategy that states 
>clearly that the Republican Party is the main danger facing working people, 
>students, and the democratic middle classes. (This should be increasingly 
>obvious as Bush 2 begins to set back the peace and anti-war movement 30 
>years by unilaterally withdrawing from the Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty, 
>provoking Russia and China into a renewal of the arms race.)  Being that 
>they are the main danger they should be opposed independently where 
>possible and in coalition with the democratic party when necessary. 
>Likewise the democratic party are no friend of working people and it is our 
>intention to build an independent movement. We will oppose the democratic 
>party where possible (like in New Brunswick) and unite with them when there 
>is a greater danger like in the upcoming gubernatorial election. This 
>should be our stated strategy.
>     We must unequivocally cease the bourgeois politician's practice of 
>being all things to all people. If we alienate some people we will inspire 
>many more. We are supposed to be political leaders, which means we have to 
>be in front not tailing behind the most backward sections of the population 
>trying to offend no one.
>The essence of our principles of unity should be struggle for People's 
>Democracy.  Defined as majority rule. We want participatory democracy not 
>manufactured consent.
>We must be uncompromising when it comes to principles.
>    Also a final note as to fund raising since the only nominee for the 
>open steering committee seat believes that this is the most important 
>issue. Money will come after we do some good political work. No one is 
>going to give us money to do good political work. Instead of worrying about 
>fundraising we should worry about build an organization and a movement with 
>a clear strategy and set of principles. The setting of fundraising as an 
>ends in itself is a continuation of the  "office community center democracy 
>clubhouse" line that was defeated both in theory and in practice.
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1867
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 13:38:18
Subject:Re: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
Message:

i think that to claim to be progressive/revolutionary and work to elect 
bush2 is something that needs to be dealt with.

tell you what keith, you get in my way when i criticize phony 
revolutionaries/progressives dave and the greens and we'll see who's side 
that puts you on.

that said where is the U&S newspaper and if it is not being sabotaged why 
can't i have any?

normal human behavior? coming from mister i've lost my revolutionary 
positions in favor of republican alliances.

joe smith


>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: joseph smith <can_bush@...>
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, poprogress@yahoogroups.com, 
>traceyx@..., mcsmith74@..., amirib@..., 
>lknesta@..., MeadHajduk@...
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
>Date: Thu, 10 Jan 1980 10:51:03 -0500
>
>I think that saying things like " these
>people should not be welcome to walk down the street if they don't work on
>ras' campaign." is at best extremely stupid and careless and at worst 
>bizarre
>and out of touch with the reality that we live in and normal human 
>behavoir.
>
>Keith
>
>joseph smith wrote:
>
> > you should just argue the question of where are these
> > progressives/revolutionaries at while ras baraka is running for Newark 
>City
> > Council? dave is in Newark as well is fortuncookie in Newark and these
> > people should not be welcome to walk down the street if they don't work 
>on
> > ras' campaign.
> >
> > that said, where is the paper? how can i get one?
> >
> > joe
> >
> > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com,
> > >traceyx@..., mcsmith74@..., amirib@...,
> > >lknesta@..., lknesta@..., MeadHajduk@...
> > >Subject: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
> > >Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:44:29
> > >
> > >
> > >To POP- We are forced to confront some unfinished business, with some
> > >regret
> > >as I would much rather show my support for the great work that this
> > >organization has been doing in the community in a more positive way.
> > >
> > >That said, it is in the spirit of truth and justice to which we all
> > >endeavor
> > >that we must revisit the charges that Dave Hungerford leveled against 
>U&S,
> > >to wit: "threatening violence against him repeatedly over the last 
>three
> > >years."
> > >
> > >Dismayed by his accusation, I demanded that he produce his evidence, as
> > >such
> > >charges, if unsubstantiated, can serve as manure for CoIntelPro as
> > >effectively as if they were true.  Responding that POP's public e-group
> > >list
> > >was not the place to air such "evidence" (although, curiously, his 
>charges
> > >could be made publically) Dave would undermine any possibility of a 
>public
> > >defense, choosing instead to send the "evidence" to me personally.  
>This is
> > >the sort of undemocratic and underhanded behavior that many outside of 
>POP
> > >have come to expect from DH, so for the record let his "evidence" be 
>known.
> > >(As DH has already sent these allegations over the digital wire, we 
>should
> > >no longer be concerned with 'secrecy' issues--as we have said in the 
>past,
> > >such transparent veils only hide one from the people, while the feds 
>know
> > >just who you are...)
> > >
> > >
> > >AS FOLLOWS:
> > >
> > >----Original Message Follows----
> > >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> > >To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > >Subject: requested information
> > >Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:40:35 -0400
> > >
> > >Matthew:
> > >
> > >1. In a paper titled "Once more against 'left-wing' communism and 
>centrism'
> > >dated  /17/98, Max Haywood wrote:
> > >
> > >If the lone 'Lefty' gets shot in the forest,
> > >and there's no one to see it...
> > >Is 'Lefty' dead?
> > >Dead as a doornail, you better believe!
> > >
> > >I have always taken this seriously. The question of what influence led
> > >Haywood to introduce a death threat is a good one.
> > >
> > >2.  In June of 1999 Brian Coury telephoned me twice in dispute over a 
>Zip
> > >drive. He wanted it and I refused to give it to him. In a distraught 
>voice
> > >he threatened to come to my house for it. In another call he said he 
>would
> > >see me at the upcoming Five Cities March against police brutality. His
> > >voice
> > >was loud and his meaning was clear. He did not show.
> > >
> > >3.  In recent e-mails, Joseph McDonough twice called me a "coward." He 
>did
> > >this after being removed from a listserv on other people's demand for
> > >abusing it - yet it was me with whom he attempted to incite something
> > >further.
> > >
> > >David
> > >
> > >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >Choosing to maintain pseudonyms of DH's lost sheep of course makes it 
>more
> > >confusing, but anyone could figure it out if they were in the least
> > >interested.  In defense of these absurd allegations:
> > >
> > >1. "Max Haywood" hasn't been a part of U&S for over a year, and to 
>extract
> > >this quote out of the context of the typically lengthy and verbose 
>polemics
> > >that "Max" frequently issued in those days, and then to make believe 
>that
> > >it
> > >was a "death threat" against Dave's person, is just out to lunch (folks
> > >ought to be asking why DH is privy to such documents, for starters)  To
> > >answer DH's question as to "why" this metaphore: I would suggest it may 
>be
> > >related to the preoccupation with ultra-left terrorist guerilla
> > >organizations such as Peru's Shining Path that young revolutionaries 
>were
> > >taught to emulate by our once fearless leader turned green. (Wonder 
>where
> > >his "boycott election" line originates--Peru was sentenced to 10 years 
>hard
> > >time under dictator Fujimori as a result of the same line that brought 
>us
> > >Giulliani, Bush, & next, Schundler?)
> > >
> > >2. Dave admits that he stole our organizations equipment and is upset 
>that
> > >we wanted it back?! (That's not all, he also stole U&S' domain name, 
>and
> > >forged his own website at that address.) -Still, I don't see the 
>violent
> > >threat here.
> > >
> > >3. Why he associates this final charge with U&S is anyone's guess.
> > >"McDonough" was never on U&S edit board, and hasn't been a member of an
> > >organization on U&S edit board since DH led his expulsion from CU 
>4-5years
> > >ago--FOR INSISTING THAT THERE ARE CONTRADICTIONS BETWEEN DEMS & REPS, 
>btw!
> > >(anyhow, can "McDonough" be blamed for expressing his frustration with 
>DH's
> > >practice of "jab & duck, jab & duck"...but again, for the sake of 
>argument,
> > >where's the violent threat?
> > >
> > >
> > >It has been made clear to me by some POP members that they are fed up 
>with
> > >this debate between two "camps".  To them, I reiterate that I would 
>rather
> > >my contribution to POP come in more positive form in the future.  
>However,
> > >it is unacceptible that someone be able to use an organization to 
>manuever
> > >in this underhanded manner, only to seek cover behind pretences of 
>playing
> > >the victim.  As I said before, I've seen too many people get hurt by DH
> > >line, and the truth will come out, and if we are to help resolve the
> > >contradictions in society, we must be willing to face the ones 
>internally.
> > >
> > >In the Struggle for Unity, Matthew Smith
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1868
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 13:43:38
Subject:Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
Message:

irrelevant to what?

joe

>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] curious about something....
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:50:59 -0000
>
>Do the members of this egroup have something relevant to New
>Brunswick and more particularly to the NBPC to write about?  Or is it
>just going to be charges and countercharges about U&S, Newark
>politics and the rest?
>
>Given the irrelevant drivel I have been reading here, I am beginning
>to think that the Membership did not go far enough when it ordered
>the creation of nbpcmembers without ordering the shutdown of this
>board.
>
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1869
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 14:59:44
Subject:Re: Fwd: [njfo] Block on Locke
Message:

when y'all were in cu pushing "boycott!", you "pointed out" that we 
were "right wing" "liquidators" &tc., while y'all were "left" 
("concealing a right essence" how ab sd.)

w/ masks off, pushing "unite w/republicans!", you "point us out" as 
"ultra-left".  

i wonder you dont dizzy from the spinning?

the constant is you divide from/attack working class activists in the 
name of "communism".

cs


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> We have pointed out SWORD/BOL's line as an ultra-left inversion of 
the 
> rightism that liquidated the Revolutionary Democratic character of 
the 
> NBPeoples' Campaign--here's the best proof to date (sadly ironic 
that while 
> we argue for them to participate in UF/PC, they propose expelling 
the only 
> members of NJFO that stuck with U&S!) -Matt
> 
> 
> 
> From :
> "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> 
> To :
> jmodibo@j..., vivaohio@h..., keithjoseph99@h..., 
> AmiriB@A...
> 
> Subject :
> Re: [njfo] Block on Locke
> 
> Date :
> Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:43:43 -0400
> 
> the U&S edit board is organized with republicans!
> 
> i propose that the republicans be expelled from the new brunswick 
peoples'
> campaign
> 
> keith joseph, louise and matthew smith, at least, all worked as 
agents for
> the republican party during the past election. keith ran as a 
registered
> republican for new brunswick city council and received over 1900 
votes - the
> incumbents won with 5300  so that's a large share of the vote.
> 
> you should be directing these questions towards keith matt and 
louise and
> amiri for proper explanation because i am not satisfied with the 
explanation
> i received.
> 
> i will be more than willing to inform you about the campaign more 
and answer
> any questions you want to shoot my way.
> 
> is there any way you can get me originals of the july U&S so i can
> distribute them?
> 
> joe
> 
> 
>     From: Baker J Baker <jmodibo@j...>
> To: can_bush@h..., AmiriB@A...
> CC: AmiriB@A...
> Subject: Re: [njfo] Block on Locke
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:15:17 -0400
> 
> I take serious a charge of sabotage, obviously the the  Joe show I'm
> watching right now is a sitcom on petty bourgeoise chauvinism. The 
people
> you advocate expelling are they traitors, reactionaries,
> anti-Communists????
> 
> M.
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1870
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 15:05:39
Subject:Re: U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
Message:

i also told face to not claim to represent the working class.

cliff smith
akarip joseph mcdonough

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> 
> To POP- We are forced to confront some unfinished business, with 
some regret 
> as I would much rather show my support for the great work that this 
> organization has been doing in the community in a more positive way.
> 
> That said, it is in the spirit of truth and justice to which we all 
endeavor 
> that we must revisit the charges that Dave Hungerford leveled 
against U&S, 
> to wit: "threatening violence against him repeatedly over the last 
three 
> years."
> 
> Dismayed by his accusation, I demanded that he produce his evidence, 
as such 
> charges, if unsubstantiated, can serve as manure for CoIntelPro as 
> effectively as if they were true.  Responding that POP's public 
e-group list 
> was not the place to air such "evidence" (although, curiously, his 
charges 
> could be made publically) Dave would undermine any possibility of a 
public 
> defense, choosing instead to send the "evidence" to me personally.  
This is 
> the sort of undemocratic and underhanded behavior that many outside 
of POP 
> have come to expect from DH, so for the record let his "evidence" be 
known.  
> (As DH has already sent these allegations over the digital wire, we 
should 
> no longer be concerned with 'secrecy' issues--as we have said in the 
past, 
> such transparent veils only hide one from the people, while the feds 
know 
> just who you are...)
> 
> 
> AS FOLLOWS:
> 
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@i...>
> To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
> Subject: requested information
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:40:35 -0400
> 
> Matthew:
> 
> 1. In a paper titled "Once more against 'left-wing' communism and 
centrism' 
> dated  /17/98, Max Haywood wrote:
> 
> If the lone 'Lefty' gets shot in the forest,
> and there's no one to see it...
> Is 'Lefty' dead?
> Dead as a doornail, you better believe!
> 
> I have always taken this seriously. The question of what influence 
led 
> Haywood to introduce a death threat is a good one.
> 
> 2.  In June of 1999 Brian Coury telephoned me twice in dispute over 
a Zip 
> drive. He wanted it and I refused to give it to him. In a distraught 
voice 
> he threatened to come to my house for it. In another call he said he 
would 
> see me at the upcoming Five Cities March against police brutality. 
His voice 
> was loud and his meaning was clear. He did not show.
> 
> 3.  In recent e-mails, Joseph McDonough twice called me a "coward." 
He did 
> this after being removed from a listserv on other people's demand 
for 
> abusing it - yet it was me with whom he attempted to incite 
something 
> further.
> 
> David
> 
> 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Choosing to maintain pseudonyms of DH's lost sheep of course makes 
it more 
> confusing, but anyone could figure it out if they were in the least 
> interested.  In defense of these absurd allegations:
> 
> 1. "Max Haywood" hasn't been a part of U&S for over a year, and to 
extract 
> this quote out of the context of the typically lengthy and verbose 
polemics 
> that "Max" frequently issued in those days, and then to make believe 
that it 
> was a "death threat" against Dave's person, is just out to lunch 
(folks 
> ought to be asking why DH is privy to such documents, for starters) 
 To 
> answer DH's question as to "why" this metaphore: I would suggest it 
may be 
> related to the preoccupation with ultra-left terrorist guerilla 
> organizations such as Peru's Shining Path that young revolutionaries 
were 
> taught to emulate by our once fearless leader turned green. (Wonder 
where 
> his "boycott election" line originates--Peru was sentenced to 10 
years hard 
> time under dictator Fujimori as a result of the same line that 
brought us 
> Giulliani, Bush, & next, Schundler?)
> 
> 2. Dave admits that he stole our organizations equipment and is 
upset that 
> we wanted it back?! (That's not all, he also stole U&S' domain name, 
and 
> forged his own website at that address.) -Still, I don't see the 
violent 
> threat here.
> 
> 3. Why he associates this final charge with U&S is anyone's guess.  
> "McDonough" was never on U&S edit board, and hasn't been a member of 
an 
> organization on U&S edit board since DH led his expulsion from CU 
4-5years 
> ago--FOR INSISTING THAT THERE ARE CONTRADICTIONS BETWEEN DEMS & 
REPS, btw!  
> (anyhow, can "McDonough" be blamed for expressing his frustration 
with DH's 
> practice of "jab & duck, jab & duck"...but again, for the sake of 
argument, 
> where's the violent threat?
> 
> 
> It has been made clear to me by some POP members that they are fed 
up with 
> this debate between two "camps".  To them, I reiterate that I would 
rather 
> my contribution to POP come in more positive form in the future.  
However, 
> it is unacceptible that someone be able to use an organization to 
manuever 
> in this underhanded manner, only to seek cover behind pretences of 
playing 
> the victim.  As I said before, I've seen too many people get hurt by 
DH 
> line, and the truth will come out, and if we are to help resolve the 
> contradictions in society, we must be willing to face the ones 
internally.
> 
> In the Struggle for Unity, Matthew Smith
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1871
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 15:15:57
Subject:Re: U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
Message:

the threat at kimakos was put to joe, not from him.

are people organizing schundler's victory welcome on yr st. at 
Reality U, tracy?

cs


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tracey Luszcz" <traceyx@h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y..., poprogress@y..., 
> >traceyx@h..., mcsmith74@y..., amirib@a..., 
> >lknesta@i..., lknesta@h..., MeadHajduk@a...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
> >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:03:17 -0400
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >> >Received: from 24.190.56.33 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with 
HTTP;Thu, 
> >26 Jul 2001 16:03:17 GMT
> >
> >
> >you should just argue the question of where are these 
> >progressives/revolutionaries at while ras baraka is running for 
Newark City 
> >Council? dave is in Newark as well is fortuncookie in Newark and 
these 
> >people should not be welcome to walk down the street if they don't 
work on 
> >ras' campaign.
> >
> >that said, where is the paper? how can i get one?
> >
> >joe
> >
> >
> >>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
> >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >>To: poprogress@y..., nbpeoplescampaign@y..., 
> >>traceyx@h..., mcsmith74@y..., amirib@a..., 
> >>lknesta@i..., lknesta@h..., MeadHajduk@a...
> >>Subject: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
> >>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:44:29
> >>
> >>
> >>To POP- We are forced to confront some unfinished business, with 
some 
> >>regret
> >>as I would much rather show my support for the great work that 
this
> >>organization has been doing in the community in a more positive 
way.
> >>
> >>That said, it is in the spirit of truth and justice to which we 
all 
> >>endeavor
> >>that we must revisit the charges that Dave Hungerford leveled 
against U&S,
> >>to wit: "threatening violence against him repeatedly over the last 
three
> >>years."
> >>
> >>Dismayed by his accusation, I demanded that he produce his 
evidence, as 
> >>such
> >>charges, if unsubstantiated, can serve as manure for CoIntelPro as
> >>effectively as if they were true.  Responding that POP's public 
e-group 
> >>list
> >>was not the place to air such "evidence" (although, curiously, his 
charges
> >>could be made publically) Dave would undermine any possibility of 
a public
> >>defense, choosing instead to send the "evidence" to me personally. 
 This 
> >>is
> >>the sort of undemocratic and underhanded behavior that many 
outside of POP
> >>have come to expect from DH, so for the record let his "evidence" 
be 
> >>known.
> >>(As DH has already sent these allegations over the digital wire, 
we should
> >>no longer be concerned with 'secrecy' issues--as we have said in 
the past,
> >>such transparent veils only hide one from the people, while the 
feds know
> >>just who you are...)
> >>
> >>
> >>AS FOLLOWS:
> >>
> >>----Original Message Follows----
> >>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@i...>
> >>To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
> >>Subject: requested information
> >>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:40:35 -0400
> >>
> >>Matthew:
> >>
> >>1. In a paper titled "Once more against 'left-wing' communism and 
> >>centrism'
> >>dated  /17/98, Max Haywood wrote:
> >>
> >>If the lone 'Lefty' gets shot in the forest,
> >>and there's no one to see it...
> >>Is 'Lefty' dead?
> >>Dead as a doornail, you better believe!
> >>
> >>I have always taken this seriously. The question of what influence 
led
> >>Haywood to introduce a death threat is a good one.
> >>
> >>2.  In June of 1999 Brian Coury telephoned me twice in dispute 
over a Zip
> >>drive. He wanted it and I refused to give it to him. In a 
distraught voice
> >>he threatened to come to my house for it. In another call he said 
he would
> >>see me at the upcoming Five Cities March against police brutality. 
His 
> >>voice
> >>was loud and his meaning was clear. He did not show.
> >>
> >>3.  In recent e-mails, Joseph McDonough twice called me a 
"coward." He did
> >>this after being removed from a listserv on other people's demand 
for
> >>abusing it - yet it was me with whom he attempted to incite 
something
> >>further.
> >>
> >>David
> >>
> 
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> >>Choosing to maintain pseudonyms of DH's lost sheep of course makes 
it more
> >>confusing, but anyone could figure it out if they were in the 
least
> >>interested.  In defense of these absurd allegations:
> >>
> >>1. "Max Haywood" hasn't been a part of U&S for over a year, and to 
extract
> >>this quote out of the context of the typically lengthy and verbose 
> >>polemics
> >>that "Max" frequently issued in those days, and then to make 
believe that 
> >>it
> >>was a "death threat" against Dave's person, is just out to lunch 
(folks
> >>ought to be asking why DH is privy to such documents, for 
starters)  To
> >>answer DH's question as to "why" this metaphore: I would suggest 
it may be
> >>related to the preoccupation with ultra-left terrorist guerilla
> >>organizations such as Peru's Shining Path that young 
revolutionaries were
> >>taught to emulate by our once fearless leader turned green. 
(Wonder where
> >>his "boycott election" line originates--Peru was sentenced to 10 
years 
> >>hard
> >>time under dictator Fujimori as a result of the same line that 
brought us
> >>Giulliani, Bush, & next, Schundler?)
> >>
> >>2. Dave admits that he stole our organizations equipment and is 
upset that
> >>we wanted it back?! (That's not all, he also stole U&S' domain 
name, and
> >>forged his own website at that address.) -Still, I don't see the 
violent
> >>threat here.
> >>
> >>3. Why he associates this final charge with U&S is anyone's guess.
> >>"McDonough" was never on U&S edit board, and hasn't been a member 
of an
> >>organization on U&S edit board since DH led his expulsion from CU 
4-5years
> >>ago--FOR INSISTING THAT THERE ARE CONTRADICTIONS BETWEEN DEMS & 
REPS, btw!
> >>(anyhow, can "McDonough" be blamed for expressing his frustration 
with 
> >>DH's
> >>practice of "jab & duck, jab & duck"...but again, for the sake of 
> >>argument,
> >>where's the violent threat?
> >>
> >>
> >>It has been made clear to me by some POP members that they are fed 
up with
> >>this debate between two "camps".  To them, I reiterate that I 
would rather
> >>my contribution to POP come in more positive form in the future.  
However,
> >>it is unacceptible that someone be able to use an organization to 
manuever
> >>in this underhanded manner, only to seek cover behind pretences of 
playing
> >>the victim.  As I said before, I've seen too many people get hurt 
by DH
> >>line, and the truth will come out, and if we are to help resolve 
the
> >>contradictions in society, we must be willing to face the ones 
internally.
> >>
> >>In the Struggle for Unity, Matthew Smith
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >>
> >
> For the record, I have no affiliation with this type of organizing, 
I have 
> nothing but the utmost respect for Joe Fortunato and the work I have 
seen 
> him do in POP, an organization that is comprised of some of the most 
> dedicated individuals I have ever met. SUffice to say, attending 
graduate 
> school makes it very difficult for me to participate on this level, 
but let 
> me just say that, to Block on Lock, just becuase you put up some 
fliers, you 
> do not have the privilege of obstructing constructive debate, of 
obstructing 
> people's positive efforts, etc. Who do you speak for when you say 
people 
> don't have the right to walk down the street if they don't 
participate in 
> someone's campaign? IS this your application of Revolutionaries 
Unite? Do 
> you think this will encourage people to join Ras' campaign? Do you 
think 
> people working on the campaign would appreciate you rallying the 
masses in 
> this way? It is sad to see you, like this, so far removed from 
reality and 
> reducing the struggle to petty nonsense and posturing. THis type of 
debate 
> does not inspire people to think, critically about how to improve 
strategy, 
> it shuts people off and turns them away. IT is the same as when you 
> threatened other revolutionaries at Kimoko's Blues People becuase 
you didn't 
> appreciate the way the debate was going.   You really need to assess 
your 
> position in the movement, what are you trying to accomplish? What 
> institution building is going on as a result of your diatribes?
> Tracey
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1872
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 15:20:36
Subject:Re: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
Message:

matt wrote:

"Why he associates this final charge with U&S is anyone's guess.
"McDonough" was never on U&S edit board, and hasn't been a member 
of an organization on U&S edit board since DH led his expulsion from 
CU 4-5years ago--FOR INSISTING THAT THERE ARE CONTRADICTIONS BETWEEN 
DEMS & REPS, btw! (anyhow, can "McDonough" be blamed for expressing 
his frustration with DH's practice of "jab & duck, jab & duck"...?"


--which "expulsion" in now maintained insistently by our comrades 
remaining on U&S, under a different cover.

no "frustration" here, dun.

cs



--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tracey Luszcz" <traceyx@h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y..., poprogress@y..., 
> >traceyx@h..., mcsmith74@y..., amirib@a..., 
> >lknesta@i..., lknesta@h..., MeadHajduk@a...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
> >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:03:17 -0400
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >> >Received: from 24.190.56.33 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with 
HTTP;Thu, 
> >26 Jul 2001 16:03:17 GMT
> >
> >
> >you should just argue the question of where are these 
> >progressives/revolutionaries at while ras baraka is running for 
Newark City 
> >Council? dave is in Newark as well is fortuncookie in Newark and 
these 
> >people should not be welcome to walk down the street if they don't 
work on 
> >ras' campaign.
> >
> >that said, where is the paper? how can i get one?
> >
> >joe
> >
> >
> >>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
> >>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >>To: poprogress@y..., nbpeoplescampaign@y..., 
> >>traceyx@h..., mcsmith74@y..., amirib@a..., 
> >>lknesta@i..., lknesta@h..., MeadHajduk@a...
> >>Subject: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
> >>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:44:29
> >>
> >>
> >>To POP- We are forced to confront some unfinished business, with 
some 
> >>regret
> >>as I would much rather show my support for the great work that 
this
> >>organization has been doing in the community in a more positive 
way.
> >>
> >>That said, it is in the spirit of truth and justice to which we 
all 
> >>endeavor
> >>that we must revisit the charges that Dave Hungerford leveled 
against U&S,
> >>to wit: "threatening violence against him repeatedly over the last 
three
> >>years."
> >>
> >>Dismayed by his accusation, I demanded that he produce his 
evidence, as 
> >>such
> >>charges, if unsubstantiated, can serve as manure for CoIntelPro as
> >>effectively as if they were true.  Responding that POP's public 
e-group 
> >>list
> >>was not the place to air such "evidence" (although, curiously, his 
charges
> >>could be made publically) Dave would undermine any possibility of 
a public
> >>defense, choosing instead to send the "evidence" to me personally. 
 This 
> >>is
> >>the sort of undemocratic and underhanded behavior that many 
outside of POP
> >>have come to expect from DH, so for the record let his "evidence" 
be 
> >>known.
> >>(As DH has already sent these allegations over the digital wire, 
we should
> >>no longer be concerned with 'secrecy' issues--as we have said in 
the past,
> >>such transparent veils only hide one from the people, while the 
feds know
> >>just who you are...)
> >>
> >>
> >>AS FOLLOWS:
> >>
> >>----Original Message Follows----
> >>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@i...>
> >>To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
> >>Subject: requested information
> >>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:40:35 -0400
> >>
> >>Matthew:
> >>
> >>1. In a paper titled "Once more against 'left-wing' communism and 
> >>centrism'
> >>dated  /17/98, Max Haywood wrote:
> >>
> >>If the lone 'Lefty' gets shot in the forest,
> >>and there's no one to see it...
> >>Is 'Lefty' dead?
> >>Dead as a doornail, you better believe!
> >>
> >>I have always taken this seriously. The question of what influence 
led
> >>Haywood to introduce a death threat is a good one.
> >>
> >>2.  In June of 1999 Brian Coury telephoned me twice in dispute 
over a Zip
> >>drive. He wanted it and I refused to give it to him. In a 
distraught voice
> >>he threatened to come to my house for it. In another call he said 
he would
> >>see me at the upcoming Five Cities March against police brutality. 
His 
> >>voice
> >>was loud and his meaning was clear. He did not show.
> >>
> >>3.  In recent e-mails, Joseph McDonough twice called me a 
"coward." He did
> >>this after being removed from a listserv on other people's demand 
for
> >>abusing it - yet it was me with whom he attempted to incite 
something
> >>further.
> >>
> >>David
> >>
> 
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> >>Choosing to maintain pseudonyms of DH's lost sheep of course makes 
it more
> >>confusing, but anyone could figure it out if they were in the 
least
> >>interested.  In defense of these absurd allegations:
> >>
> >>1. "Max Haywood" hasn't been a part of U&S for over a year, and to 
extract
> >>this quote out of the context of the typically lengthy and verbose 
> >>polemics
> >>that "Max" frequently issued in those days, and then to make 
believe that 
> >>it
> >>was a "death threat" against Dave's person, is just out to lunch 
(folks
> >>ought to be asking why DH is privy to such documents, for 
starters)  To
> >>answer DH's question as to "why" this metaphore: I would suggest 
it may be
> >>related to the preoccupation with ultra-left terrorist guerilla
> >>organizations such as Peru's Shining Path that young 
revolutionaries were
> >>taught to emulate by our once fearless leader turned green. 
(Wonder where
> >>his "boycott election" line originates--Peru was sentenced to 10 
years 
> >>hard
> >>time under dictator Fujimori as a result of the same line that 
brought us
> >>Giulliani, Bush, & next, Schundler?)
> >>
> >>2. Dave admits that he stole our organizations equipment and is 
upset that
> >>we wanted it back?! (That's not all, he also stole U&S' domain 
name, and
> >>forged his own website at that address.) -Still, I don't see the 
violent
> >>threat here.
> >>
> >>3. Why he associates this final charge with U&S is anyone's guess.
> >>"McDonough" was never on U&S edit board, and hasn't been a member 
of an
> >>organization on U&S edit board since DH led his expulsion from CU 
4-5years
> >>ago--FOR INSISTING THAT THERE ARE CONTRADICTIONS BETWEEN DEMS & 
REPS, btw!
> >>(anyhow, can "McDonough" be blamed for expressing his frustration 
with 
> >>DH's
> >>practice of "jab & duck, jab & duck"...but again, for the sake of 
> >>argument,
> >>where's the violent threat?
> >>
> >>
> >>It has been made clear to me by some POP members that they are fed 
up with
> >>this debate between two "camps".  To them, I reiterate that I 
would rather
> >>my contribution to POP come in more positive form in the future.  
However,
> >>it is unacceptible that someone be able to use an organization to 
manuever
> >>in this underhanded manner, only to seek cover behind pretences of 
playing
> >>the victim.  As I said before, I've seen too many people get hurt 
by DH
> >>line, and the truth will come out, and if we are to help resolve 
the
> >>contradictions in society, we must be willing to face the ones 
internally.
> >>
> >>In the Struggle for Unity, Matthew Smith
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >>
> >
> For the record, I have no affiliation with this type of organizing, 
I have 
> nothing but the utmost respect for Joe Fortunato and the work I have 
seen 
> him do in POP, an organization that is comprised of some of the most 
> dedicated individuals I have ever met. SUffice to say, attending 
graduate 
> school makes it very difficult for me to participate on this level, 
but let 
> me just say that, to Block on Lock, just becuase you put up some 
fliers, you 
> do not have the privilege of obstructing constructive debate, of 
obstructing 
> people's positive efforts, etc. Who do you speak for when you say 
people 
> don't have the right to walk down the street if they don't 
participate in 
> someone's campaign? IS this your application of Revolutionaries 
Unite? Do 
> you think this will encourage people to join Ras' campaign? Do you 
think 
> people working on the campaign would appreciate you rallying the 
masses in 
> this way? It is sad to see you, like this, so far removed from 
reality and 
> reducing the struggle to petty nonsense and posturing. THis type of 
debate 
> does not inspire people to think, critically about how to improve 
strategy, 
> it shuts people off and turns them away. IT is the same as when you 
> threatened other revolutionaries at Kimoko's Blues People becuase 
you didn't 
> appreciate the way the debate was going.   You really need to assess 
your 
> position in the movement, what are you trying to accomplish? What 
> institution building is going on as a result of your diatribes?
> Tracey
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1873
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 15:23:37
Subject:Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
Message:

Joe:

Irrelevant to New Brunswick and irrelevant to the New Brunswick 
People's Campaign.  Just to refer to the drivel from the past two 
days, the following are irrelevant:

1. U&S is not a campaign newspaper (thank God!).  Nor is your fight 
with how quickly it does or does not go into production, Campaign 
business.

2. "Temporary Art Installation" in a park in Newark is not relevant 
to New Brunswick.

3. "Unfinished business" by and between campaign nonmembers, the 
People's Organization for Progress, and Mr. Hungerford is not 
relevant. 

4. Brian Coury and Joseph McDonough are not, to my knowledge, 
Campaign members; business between you and them is irrelevant.

5. Squabbles between Mr. Fortunato, Mr. Baraka, and you about Newark 
are not relevant. 

In case you missed it, the Campaign's membership, at the 6/30 
meeting, ordered that the Campaign's goals are: (1) winning the Pro-
Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and (2) winning the New 
BRUNSWICK mayor and council seats in 2002.  Not spewing invective or 
dissecting ideology, but winning an electoral campaign.

If you'd like to address that, go ahead.  If not, GET THE F*** OFF MY 
EGROUP and keep your lunacy off it!








--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> irrelevant to what?
> 
> joe
> 
> >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: [nbpc] curious about something....
> >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:50:59 -0000
> >
> >Do the members of this egroup have something relevant to New
> >Brunswick and more particularly to the NBPC to write about?  Or is 
it
> >just going to be charges and countercharges about U&S, Newark
> >politics and the rest?
> >
> >Given the irrelevant drivel I have been reading here, I am 
beginning
> >to think that the Membership did not go far enough when it ordered
> >the creation of nbpcmembers without ordering the shutdown of this
> >board.
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1874
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 15:38:28
Subject:Re: [njfo] Block on Locke
Message:

keith never sd he has yet withdrawn his republican party affiliation. 

he sd "I resigned from the republican organization after Frank Bright 
became chair of the organization and I didn't run as a "registered 
republican", I ran as a candidate of the People's Campaign."

this must mean keith quit as active voting member of local internal 
party organization (i.e., elect the chair,...), yet was registered 
republican at the election, regardless his "candidate slogan": 
"candidate of peoples' campaign".  

so point remains of trenton republican organization observed sudden 
thrust of votes for registered republicans, for which the local chair 
was advanced&strengthened at the expense of the people.

& that u&s has a curious relationship to such anti-democratic schemes.

cs


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> louise keith and matt are all on the U&S edit board as well as 
organized in 
> the peoples' campaign with republicans. what does your opinion of my 
> credibility have to so with it keith?
> 
> i will perform a check of when keith resigned from the republican 
party, 
> this is the first i have heard that it was before the election.
> 
> keith said:
> The mistake in my opinion was that we allowed that activity to 
compromise 
> our political line. that is this alliance with the local republicans 
against 
> the local incumbent democrats was used as a reason not to push our 
political 
> line Beat Bush etc. because it would upset our republican allies
> 
> that is how U&S's position on the election "Beat Bush!" was 
sabotaged.
> 
> keith said:
> Yr statement about republicans in U&S is not only an outright lie.
> 
> i never said republicans are in U&S, so where's the lie?
> 
> keith said:
> Firstly, I was the only one of the people you mentioned who did any 
work to 
> get Frank Bright elected Chair of the local organization.
> 
> matt and louise if not doing actual activities where definitely 
involved in 
> the plan and never raised any open opposition, so as far as i'm 
concerned 
> they were down. that's like saying matt and louise had nothing to do 
with us 
> being expelled because the expulsion happened at a steering 
committee 
> meeting that they were not at, though all their method and ideology 
support 
> my expulsion just as it supported joing the republicans.
> 
> i say the peoples' campaign should embrace U&S, funny i'm the one 
suggesting 
> that while you are in the peoples' campaign and on the U&S edit 
board.
> 
> 
> joe
> 
> 
> >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> >To: can_bush@h..., jmodibo@j..., vivaohio@h..., 
> >AmiriB@A...
> >Subject: Re: [njfo] Block on Locke
> >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 03:23:49 +0000
> >
> >Joe,
> >you wrote: "the U&S edit board is organized with republicans!"
> >
> >when you say things like that you lose what little credibility you 
have 
> >left. We have already gone through this. Members of the People's 
Campaign 
> >myself included joined the local republican organization last year 
to get 
> >Frank Bright elected chair of the organization. We did this in 
order to get 
> >an office and paid poll workers for election day. The mistake in my 
opinion 
> >was that we allowed that activity to compromise our political line. 
that is 
> >this alliance with the local republicans against the local 
incumbent 
> >democrats was used as a reason not to push our political line Beat 
Bush 
> >etc. because it would upset our republican allies. Additionally we 
made an 
> >alliance with the Greens against the local democrats. The 
opportunism was 
> >to sacrifice the long term, national and even international 
interests of 
> >the working class to short term local interests. This was a serious 
mistake 
> >and one that not only should be criticized but has been criticized. 
> >Rectifying the errors will be a somewhat long process because on 
the right 
> >we have people who refuse to acknowledge errors and on the 
ultra-left we 
> >have self serving and outlandish accusations as replacement of any 
serious 
> >analysis and cinstructive critique.
> >Yr statement about republicans in U&S is not only an outright lie. 
It is 
> >some sort of self serving bourgeois scandal seeking but I have yet 
to 
> >understand its purpose.
> >
> >Joe goes on:
> >"keith joseph, louise and matthew smith, at least, all worked as
> >>agents for the republican party during the past election. keith 
ran as a 
> >>registered republican for new brunswick city council and received 
over 
> >>1900 votes - the incumbents won with 5300  so that's a large share 
of the 
> >>vote."
> >
> >This is also a lie. Firstly, I was the only one of the people you 
mentioned 
> >who did any work to get Frank Bright elected Chair of the local 
> >organization. I resigned from the republican organization after 
Frank 
> >Bright became chair of the organization and I didn't run as a 
"registered 
> >republican", I ran as a candidate of the People's Campaign. Why 
lie?
> >
> >As far as the People's Campaign goes the republicans are being 
expelled 
> >from the people's campaign. The odds of getting you and yr brother 
> >re-instated are slim at present. Somehow you haven't made yrselves 
very 
> >popular with the current membership.
> >     One reason might be that you dogmatically push an ultra-left 
line. And 
> >when people don't go for it you or yr brother announce that they 
are "under 
> >suspicion". This is the same line that puts forward "the People's 
Campaign 
> >should embrace U&S". The entire People's Campaign as an 
organization 
> >doesn't need to "embrace U&S." For one thing the People's Campaign 
is an 
> >attempt (one that has made many mistakes) to build a mass 
organization 
> >around people's democracy. U&S is a M-L newspaper. Your line to 
mash 
> >Marxism-Leninism on a mass based organization is ultra-left and 
would be a 
> >repeat as farce of recent history.
> >     The thing to do with U&S and the people's campaign is try to 
expand 
> >the influence of its political line, get people to voluntarily 
participate 
> >in its work. Hand it out at meetings, try to get people to help out 
and 
> >contribute to it, to use it to build a local circle of 
revolutionaries 
> >towards the goal of uniting with other such circles and building a 
national 
> >organziation of revolutionaries as part of the motion towards a 
people's 
> >democarcy
> >
> >Joe wrote:
> >"amiri, you also must hold U&S edit board responsible for 
sabotaging
> >>U&S"
> >
> >I don't know what that means. The edit board is responsible for 
getting U&S 
> >out and is also responsible for its not getting out. You keep 
saying 
> >"sabotage" like its pee wee herman's word of the day. but whats yr 
point?  
> >We are starting at ground zero in a time when revolutionaries have 
been 
> >scattered in a disorganized retreat. And you're running around like 
a 
> >maniac who will single handedly bring forth the revolution as a 
result of 
> >his own frenzied activity and raving accusations at anyone not 
interested 
> >participating in yr furor. This is a protracted struggle, your 
treating a 
> >marathon like a 40 yard dash.
> >    There are plenty of things to criticize about U&S but yours are 
not 
> >constructive. U&S has just begun to appear regularly for the first 
time in 
> >a long time, we finally got to a point approaching regularity, the 
content 
> >and political line have been improving and we are getting close to 
a 
> >newspaper that we can get in stores and newsstands, that is that 
can be 
> >distributed widely and regularly and at some level of 
professionalism. The 
> >point is that we are moving forward maybe too slowly for you, but 
for those 
> >of us who have already tried the frenzied approach and have seen it 
lead to 
> >nothing, we are very optimistic about our current effort.
> >So what's being "sabotaged"?
> >
> >You were invited to two edit board meetings. It was like being 
awake in a 
> >nightmare. Despite what you think those meetings delayed the 
> >re-organization of the paper rather than advance it.
> >
> >We are trying to find ways to unite, but I don't see how unity is 
possible 
> >when all you can do is lie and make wild and unfounded accusations. 
And 
> >then do yr martyr routine.
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >ps. I included a piece below that I submitted to the People's 
Campign, 
> >Where I try to sum up some of the mistakes that I mentioned above 
and 
> >propose a re-orienatation for the campaign.
> >
> >>What to do?
> >
> >     Since the February 2001 meeting the People's Campaign has 
become 
> >increasing disoriented and isolated from any base whatsoever. The 
meetings 
> >following February have been characterized by petty intrigues, 
petty 
> >debates about organizational structure, expulsions, and a general 
crisis of 
> >identity. I think this state is recognized by most but few are 
clear enough 
> >or willing enough to admit it. This state of affairs has come about 
because 
> >of a bad strategy that was initiated at the founding meeting of the 
> >campaign in January of 2000. The strategy that was put into motion 
at said 
> >meeting was a united front against local the democratic party. This 
> >strategy saw the local democratic party as the main target and then 
sought 
> >allies on that basis leading us to ally ourselves with republicans 
among 
> >others. Our out look was short sighted, narrow and parochial.
> >     Instead of strategizing to build a movement over the long term 
we 
> >thought only in terms of the upcoming election. This is a recipe 
for 
> >failure and has put us in the position we are in today. It has 
confused the 
> >organization and those associated with it to the point of 
paralysis. The 
> >last meetings resolution to have two main objectives for the 
campaign 
> >(democracy ordinance and mayor's election 2000) is just more 
wandering in 
> >the wilderness.
> >     What we need is a ground up re-organization that begins with a 
sum up 
> >of our success and failures in our last attempt. This must include 
a 
> >critique of the faulty strategy that I already mentioned and 
include a new 
> >orientation. The new orientation should begin with a strategy that 
states 
> >clearly that the Republican Party is the main danger facing working 
people, 
> >students, and the democratic middle classes. (This should be 
increasingly 
> >obvious as Bush 2 begins to set back the peace and anti-war 
movement 30 
> >years by unilaterally withdrawing from the Anti-Ballistic Missile 
treaty, 
> >provoking Russia and China into a renewal of the arms race.)  Being 
that 
> >they are the main danger they should be opposed independently where 
> >possible and in coalition with the democratic party when necessary. 
> >Likewise the democratic party are no friend of working people and 
it is our 
> >intention to build an independent movement. We will oppose the 
democratic 
> >party where possible (like in New Brunswick) and unite with them 
when there 
> >is a greater danger like in the upcoming gubernatorial election. 
This 
> >should be our stated strategy.
> >     We must unequivocally cease the bourgeois politician's 
practice of 
> >being all things to all people. If we alienate some people we will 
inspire 
> >many more. We are supposed to be political leaders, which means we 
have to 
> >be in front not tailing behind the most backward sections of the 
population 
> >trying to offend no one.
> >The essence of our principles of unity should be struggle for 
People's 
> >Democracy.  Defined as majority rule. We want participatory 
democracy not 
> >manufactured consent.
> >We must be uncompromising when it comes to principles.
> >    Also a final note as to fund raising since the only nominee for 
the 
> >open steering committee seat believes that this is the most 
important 
> >issue. Money will come after we do some good political work. No one 
is 
> >going to give us money to do good political work. Instead of 
worrying about 
> >fundraising we should worry about build an organization and a 
movement with 
> >a clear strategy and set of principles. The setting of fundraising 
as an 
> >ends in itself is a continuation of the  "office community center 
democracy 
> >clubhouse" line that was defeated both in theory and in practice.
> >
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1875
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 15:49:49
Subject:viva cuba libre!
Message:







                Fidel Castro heads march of
                1.2 million to celebrate start
                of Cuba revolution

                By ANITA SNOW
                The Associated Press
                7/26/01 2:56 PM

                HAVANA (AP) -- Fidel Castro led more than a million of his
                compatriots on a march Thursday to celebrate the start of
                the Cuban revolution, trekking about 1� miles in a display
                of vigor after his fainting spell last month.

                Wearing his olive green uniform and a less typical pair of
                white sneakers, the Cuban president, who turns 75 next
                month, vigorously waved a small Cuban flag as he stepped
                off down Havana's coastal Malecon highway.

                Castro marched for about 20 minutes, completing not quite
                half of the 3�-mile parade route. State television estimated
                the number of participants at 1.2 million.

                He did not address the crowd.

                While Castro led a similar July 26 march in Havana last
                year, Cubans had wondered aloud if "El Comandante"
                would do so this year, following his brief fainting spell 
last
                month during a speech under broiling sun. It was the first
                incident of its kind during Castro's 42-year rule.

                But after a few days of rest, Castro resumed his busy
                schedule. Castro and fellow communist leaders insist he is
                in good health.

                Marchers protested the long-standing U.S. embargo and
                other American policies toward Cuba, and demanded the
                release of five of Cuban agents convicted earlier this year 
in
                Miami on espionage charges.

                Cuba contends the five men were merely gathering
                information about anti-Castro groups in Miami to defend
                their country against violent attacks.

                "Free the patriotic heroes!" yelled the marchers, many of
                whom wore white T-shirts emblazoned with the five Cuban
                men, who are jailed in Miami awaiting sentencing.

                Havana's demands for the men's release is the latest in a
                series of political campaigns following its successful fight
                for the repatriation last summer of Cuban boy Elian
                Gonzalez, now 7 years old. The boy's Miami relatives,
                backed by anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Miami, had fought
                to keep the boy in the United States.

                July 26, known in Cuba as National Rebellion Day,
                commemorates the armed attack Castro led in the wee
                hours of July 26, 1953, on the Moncada army barracks in
                the eastern city of Santiago.

                Sixty-one of 160 attackers were killed and many of the
                rest, including Castro and his younger brother Raul, were
                jailed.

                But the movement later regained strength and triumphed
                on New Year's Day 1959 after then-President Fulgencio
                Batista fled the country.

                Lending an international air to Thursday's march was
                Hassan Khomeini, grandson of the father of Iran's 1979
                Islamic revolution -- the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.
                Invited to visit Cuba by Castro, the 29-year-old walked on
                Castro's left, dressed in his traditional Islamic robes and
                head covering.

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This 
material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1877
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 19:49:51
Subject:Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
Message:

narrow brain with loud mouth

if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more prepared or less to 
win new brunswick in november?

U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would serve the 
peoples' campaign tremendously.

old relations and active organizations are something to be learned from, 
these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but they have been 
being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.

again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new brunswick and will 
be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective strategy amongst 
local activists is put together the better. there is no way that the greens 
should not be addressed, for you to argue such only shows your own support 
for schundler.

in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its line of 
community control with its sell out to republicans, where's your arguements 
against this happening?

joe

>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:23:37 -0000
>
>Joe:
>
>Irrelevant to New Brunswick and irrelevant to the New Brunswick
>People's Campaign.  Just to refer to the drivel from the past two
>days, the following are irrelevant:
>
>1. U&S is not a campaign newspaper (thank God!).  Nor is your fight
>with how quickly it does or does not go into production, Campaign
>business.
>
>2. "Temporary Art Installation" in a park in Newark is not relevant
>to New Brunswick.
>
>3. "Unfinished business" by and between campaign nonmembers, the
>People's Organization for Progress, and Mr. Hungerford is not
>relevant.
>
>4. Brian Coury and Joseph McDonough are not, to my knowledge,
>Campaign members; business between you and them is irrelevant.
>
>5. Squabbles between Mr. Fortunato, Mr. Baraka, and you about Newark
>are not relevant.
>
>In case you missed it, the Campaign's membership, at the 6/30
>meeting, ordered that the Campaign's goals are: (1) winning the Pro-
>Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and (2) winning the New
>BRUNSWICK mayor and council seats in 2002.  Not spewing invective or
>dissecting ideology, but winning an electoral campaign.
>
>If you'd like to address that, go ahead.  If not, GET THE F*** OFF MY
>EGROUP and keep your lunacy off it!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > irrelevant to what?
> >
> > joe
> >
> > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: [nbpc] curious about something....
> > >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:50:59 -0000
> > >
> > >Do the members of this egroup have something relevant to New
> > >Brunswick and more particularly to the NBPC to write about?  Or is
>it
> > >just going to be charges and countercharges about U&S, Newark
> > >politics and the rest?
> > >
> > >Given the irrelevant drivel I have been reading here, I am
>beginning
> > >to think that the Membership did not go far enough when it ordered
> > >the creation of nbpcmembers without ordering the shutdown of this
> > >board.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1878
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-26 23:08:25
Subject:Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
Message:

> narrow brain with loud mouth

Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point is an ad 
hominem attack....
 
> if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more prepared or 
less to win new brunswick in november?

Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn 
listserve! 
 
> U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would serve 
the peoples' campaign tremendously.

It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals whose 
ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't 
understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and 
unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do you sell 
to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be surprised, and 
we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.

> old relations and active organizations are something to be learned 
from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but they 
have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.

Please specify which one of these old relations or active 
organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to 
office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how much 
can they really teach us?  


> again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new brunswick 
and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective 
strategy amongst local activists is put together the better. there is 
no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to argue such 
only shows your own support for schundler.

What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information (i.e. 
the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry L. 
Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back Jim 
McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support Schundler!

 
> in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its line 
of community control with its sell out to republicans, where's your 
arguements against this happening?

In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning the 
Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor and two 
council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those who will 
be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about 
struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's about 
winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.











-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1879
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-27 01:21:47
Subject:later for mark???
Message:

mark, you claim no relationship to these discussions? that must be 
convenient for you

i really couldn't imagine what's up with you - U&S won't let me work on the 
newspaper
remember when you where like that?

joe

>From: David Goliath <mcsmith74@...>
>To: joseph smith <can_bush@...>
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's Allegations
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:39:05 -0700 (PDT)
>
>This is to everyne: For future reference, my e-mail is
>for my personal use. Please leave me off of all your
>polemic lists. This is exactly why I changed my
>account.
>
>Thanks
>Mark
>
>--- joseph smith <can_bush@...> wrote:
> > i think that to claim to be
> > progressive/revolutionary and work to elect
> > bush2 is something that needs to be dealt with.
> >
> > tell you what keith, you get in my way when i
> > criticize phony
> > revolutionaries/progressives dave and the greens and
> > we'll see who's side
> > that puts you on.
> >
> > that said where is the U&S newspaper and if it is
> > not being sabotaged why
> > can't i have any?
> >
> > normal human behavior? coming from mister i've lost
> > my revolutionary
> > positions in favor of republican alliances.
> >
> > joe smith
> >
> >
> > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: joseph smith <can_bush@...>
> > >CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com,
> > poprogress@yahoogroups.com,
> > >traceyx@..., mcsmith74@...,
> > amirib@...,
> > >lknesta@..., MeadHajduk@...
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's
> > Allegations
> > >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 1980 10:51:03 -0500
> > >
> > >I think that saying things like " these
> > >people should not be welcome to walk down the
> > street if they don't work on
> > >ras' campaign." is at best extremely stupid and
> > careless and at worst
> > >bizarre
> > >and out of touch with the reality that we live in
> > and normal human
> > >behavoir.
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >joseph smith wrote:
> > >
> > > > you should just argue the question of where are
> > these
> > > > progressives/revolutionaries at while ras baraka
> > is running for Newark
> > >City
> > > > Council? dave is in Newark as well is
> > fortuncookie in Newark and these
> > > > people should not be welcome to walk down the
> > street if they don't work
> > >on
> > > > ras' campaign.
> > > >
> > > > that said, where is the paper? how can i get
> > one?
> > > >
> > > > joe
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com,
> > nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > >traceyx@..., mcsmith74@...,
> > amirib@...,
> > > > >lknesta@..., lknesta@...,
> > MeadHajduk@...
> > > > >Subject: [nbpc] U&S Defense Against DH's
> > Allegations
> > > > >Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:44:29
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >To POP- We are forced to confront some
> > unfinished business, with some
> > > > >regret
> > > > >as I would much rather show my support for the
> > great work that this
> > > > >organization has been doing in the community in
> > a more positive way.
> > > > >
> > > > >That said, it is in the spirit of truth and
> > justice to which we all
> > > > >endeavor
> > > > >that we must revisit the charges that Dave
> > Hungerford leveled against
> > >U&S,
> > > > >to wit: "threatening violence against him
> > repeatedly over the last
> > >three
> > > > >years."
> > > > >
> > > > >Dismayed by his accusation, I demanded that he
> > produce his evidence, as
> > > > >such
> > > > >charges, if unsubstantiated, can serve as
> > manure for CoIntelPro as
> > > > >effectively as if they were true.  Responding
> > that POP's public e-group
> > > > >list
> > > > >was not the place to air such "evidence"
> > (although, curiously, his
> > >charges
> > > > >could be made publically) Dave would undermine
> > any possibility of a
> > >public
> > > > >defense, choosing instead to send the
> > "evidence" to me personally.
> > >This is
> > > > >the sort of undemocratic and underhanded
> > behavior that many outside of
> > >POP
> > > > >have come to expect from DH, so for the record
> > let his "evidence" be
> > >known.
> > > > >(As DH has already sent these allegations over
> > the digital wire, we
> > >should
> > > > >no longer be concerned with 'secrecy'
> > issues--as we have said in the
> > >past,
> > > > >such transparent veils only hide one from the
> > people, while the feds
> > >know
> > > > >just who you are...)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >AS FOLLOWS:
> > > > >
> > > > >----Original Message Follows----
> > > > >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> > > > >To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > > > >Subject: requested information
> > > > >Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:40:35 -0400
> > > > >
> > > > >Matthew:
> > > > >
> > > > >1. In a paper titled "Once more against
> > 'left-wing' communism and
> > >centrism'
> > > > >dated  /17/98, Max Haywood wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >If the lone 'Lefty' gets shot in the forest,
> > > > >and there's no one to see it...
> > > > >Is 'Lefty' dead?
> > > > >Dead as a doornail, you better believe!
> > > > >
> > > > >I have always taken this seriously. The
> > question of what influence led
> > > > >Haywood to introduce a death threat is a good
> > one.
> > > > >
> > > > >2.  In June of 1999 Brian Coury telephoned me
> > twice in dispute over a
> > >Zip
> > > > >drive. He wanted it and I refused to give it to
> > him. In a distraught
> > >voice
> > > > >he threatened to come to my house for it. In
> > another call he said he
> > >would
> > > > >see me at the upcoming Five Cities March
> > against police brutality. His
> > > > >voice
> > > > >was loud and his meaning was clear. He did not
> > show.
> > > > >
> > > > >3.  In recent e-mails, Joseph McDonough twice
> > called me a "coward." He
> > >did
> > > > >this after being removed from a listserv on
> > other people's demand for
> > > > >abusing it - yet it was me with whom he
> > attempted to incite something
> > > > >further.
> > > > >
> > > > >David
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >Choosing to maintain pseudonyms of DH's lost
> > sheep of course makes it
> > >more
> > > > >confusing, but anyone could figure it out if
> > they were in the least
> > > > >interested.  In defense of these absurd
> > allegations:
> > > > >
> > > > >1. "Max Haywood" hasn't been a part of U&S for
> > over a year, and to
> > >extract
> > > > >this quote out of the context of the typically
> > lengthy and verbose
> > >polemics
> > > > >that "Max" frequently issued in those days, and
> > then to make believe
> > >that
> >
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1880
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-27 16:33:26
Subject:Fwd: The U.S. Navy Violates Electoral Laws--Navy viola leyes electorales
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Vieques Libre" <viequeslibre@...>
To: List Member <vivaohio@...>
Subject: The U.S. Navy Violates Electoral Laws--Navy viola leyes electorales
Date: 27 Jul 2001 20:33:15 -0000

Vieques Libre - http://www.viequeslibre.org

--------------------------- ListBot Sponsor --------------------------
Sopranos fanatics, this one is for you.  Tony Soprano's autographed
Suburban is available for purchase on eBayTM.  James Gandolfini has
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Scroll down for English]

COMIT� PRO RESCATE Y DESARROLLO DE VIEQUES
Apartado 1424 Vieques, Puerto Rico 00765
Tel. (787) 741-0716 E mail: bieke@...

25 de julio de 2001

Comunicado de Prensa


La Marina de Guerra de los Estados Unidos viola las leyes electorales

El Comit� Pro Rescate y Desarrollo de Vieques acusa a la Marina de violar
las leyes electorales de los Estados Unidos. La se�ora Nilda Medina D�az,
portavoz de la organizaci�n viequense, afirma que el cuerpo castrense
viola secciones del Cap�tulo 29 del C�digo Penal de los Estados Unidos, "�
espec�ficamente la Secci�n 598 (sobre el uso de promesas de fondos
federales para coaccionar o influenciar el ejercicio del derecho al
sufragio) y la Secci�n 593 (sobre la interferencia de las fuerzas armadas
en una elecci�n)."


La se�ora Medina le ha pedido al se�or Guillermo Gil, Fiscal de los
Estados Unidos, "que investigue sin mayor dilaci�n las violaciones a la
ley por parte de la Marina de Guerra de los Estados Unidos", y "lo invita
a que muestre (en este asunto) la misma diligencia que hasta ahora su
oficina ha mostrado en radicar acusaciones en contra de los desobedientes
civiles".

En la comunicaci�n espec�ficamente se le indica al se�or fiscal: "�
exigimos el mismo vigor en el procesamiento de los poderosos que ahora, a
menos de una semana del refer�ndum, llevan a cabo acciones ilegales en un
intento de comprar votos a favor de la permanencia de la Marina de Guerra
de los Estados Unidos en suelo Viequense".

Finalmente, se concluye que la acci�n inmediata es necesaria "para
garantizar la realidad y la apariencia de un proceso limpio, sin amenazas
y sobornos de parte de la Marina de Guerra de los Estados Unidos".


==================================

Committee for the Rescue and Development of Vieques
P.O. Box 1424 Vieques, Puerto Rico 00765
Tel. (787) 741-0716 E mail: bieke@...


July 25, 2001

Press Release


The U.S. Navy Violates Electoral Laws


The Committee for the Rescue and Development of Vieques, accuses the Navy
of violating United State�s electoral laws. Ms. Nilda Medina, a
spokesperson for the organization from Vieques, stated the Navy violates
sections of Chapter 29 of the U.S. Penal Code, "� specifically Section 598
(regarding the use of promises for federal funds to influence or coerce
the free right to vote), and Section 593 (regarding the interference of
United States� armed forces in an election."

Ms. Medina has asked Mr. Guillermo Gil, U.S. Prosecutor in Puerto Rico, to
"investigate without any delay, the U.S. Navy�s violations of law", and
invites him to "�show (in this matter) the same diligence his office has
so far shown in lodging accusations against civil disobedients".

The letter specifically stresses that "�we demand the same vigor in the
prosecution of the powerful who at this moment, less than a week away from
the referendum, are committing illegal acts in an effort to buy votes to
favor the continuation of the U.S. Navy in territory of Vieques.


______________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, write to viequeslibre-unsubscribe@...



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1881
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-27 16:46:51
Subject:Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
Message:

Flavio- I've seen you attack U&S a number of times now.  Of course one can't 
be forced to like or embrace any outlet or point of view...but I'm curious 
as to why you're so veimently down on the newspaper.  If you care to respond 
-Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: Groovemeister007@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:08:25 -0000

 > narrow brain with loud mouth

Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point is an ad
hominem attack....

 > if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more prepared or
less to win new brunswick in november?

Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn
listserve!

 > U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would serve
the peoples' campaign tremendously.

It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals whose
ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't
understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and
unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do you sell
to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be surprised, and
we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.

 > old relations and active organizations are something to be learned
from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but they
have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.

Please specify which one of these old relations or active
organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to
office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how much
can they really teach us?


 > again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new brunswick
and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective
strategy amongst local activists is put together the better. there is
no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to argue such
only shows your own support for schundler.

What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information (i.e.
the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry L.
Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back Jim
McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support Schundler!


 > in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its line
of community control with its sell out to republicans, where's your
arguements against this happening?

In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning the
Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor and two
council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those who will
be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about
struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's about
winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.






To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1882
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-27 17:10:04
Subject:Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
Message:

Flavio- What's your deal?  Why this hostile and negative tone about postings 
relating to Newark?  The progressive & revolutionary activities in Newark 
are very relevant to what happens in NB, & what goes down on NB is relevant 
to Newark.  I've been sending messages down that I believe are particularly 
relevant to certain organizers, who have a history of organizing between the 
two cities.  Usually I send them to NBPC list, as opposed to NBPCmembers, 
because I do agree that there are degrees of relvance to the NB campaign.  
But what of it, anyhow?  I've seen you write extremely condecending attacks 
lately against Baraka & U&S--though nothing so specific that could be 
addressed--even attacks against people who don't spell well.  & this has all 
been wrapped up in a militantly parochial point of view that insists that 
the movement in NB is in some kind of isolated bubble.  I'm confused by 
these positions.  (I do, however, agree with you that U&S shouldn't be the 
PC campaign newspaper, as the campaign OUGHT to be a United Front effort, 
and U&S maintains a particular ideological position, which it would be much 
more interesting and helpful for you to address than these, how do you say, 
"ad hominum attacks.")

BTW- since when is this "Flavio's Egroup"?  Perhaps this is related to the 
intellectual property rights notion that too many on the "left" are still 
infected with.

-Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: Groovemeister007@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:23:37 -0000

Joe:

Irrelevant to New Brunswick and irrelevant to the New Brunswick
People's Campaign.  Just to refer to the drivel from the past two
days, the following are irrelevant:

1. U&S is not a campaign newspaper (thank God!).  Nor is your fight
with how quickly it does or does not go into production, Campaign
business.

2. "Temporary Art Installation" in a park in Newark is not relevant
to New Brunswick.

3. "Unfinished business" by and between campaign nonmembers, the
People's Organization for Progress, and Mr. Hungerford is not
relevant.

4. Brian Coury and Joseph McDonough are not, to my knowledge,
Campaign members; business between you and them is irrelevant.

5. Squabbles between Mr. Fortunato, Mr. Baraka, and you about Newark
are not relevant.

In case you missed it, the Campaign's membership, at the 6/30
meeting, ordered that the Campaign's goals are: (1) winning the Pro-
Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and (2) winning the New
BRUNSWICK mayor and council seats in 2002.  Not spewing invective or
dissecting ideology, but winning an electoral campaign.

If you'd like to address that, go ahead.  If not, GET THE F*** OFF MY
EGROUP and keep your lunacy off it!








--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
 > irrelevant to what?
 >
 > joe
 >
 > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
 > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > >Subject: [nbpc] curious about something....
 > >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:50:59 -0000
 > >
 > >Do the members of this egroup have something relevant to New
 > >Brunswick and more particularly to the NBPC to write about?  Or is
it
 > >just going to be charges and countercharges about U&S, Newark
 > >politics and the rest?
 > >
 > >Given the irrelevant drivel I have been reading here, I am
beginning
 > >to think that the Membership did not go far enough when it ordered
 > >the creation of nbpcmembers without ordering the shutdown of this
 > >board.
 > >
 > >
 > >
 >
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1883
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-27 17:11:10
Subject:Action Alert: Robert Knight Fired
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: CFNJ-Communications <siddharta5@...>
To: friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Action Alert: Robert Knight Fired
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:23:55 -0700 (PDT)


 > PACIFICA CAMPAIGN ACTION ALERT
 >
 > POLK AWARD WINNER ROBERT KNIGHT FIRED
 > EMERGENCY PICKET SLATED FOR THURSDAY, 5:00-7:00 PM AT WBAI
 >
 > NEW YORK, (July 26) -- Robert Knight, one of Pacifica Radio's most
 > distinguished news reporters and program producers, was fired by WBAI's
 > interim general manager Utrice Leid last night.
 >
 > Knight went to Pacifica station WBAI in New York City to do his 
regularly-
 > scheduled Earthwatch show after preparing a tape on the drug war in 
Tulia,
 > Texas, to find a memo from Leid. The memo reads in part:
 >
 > "This is to inform you that effective Thursday, July 26, your program
 > Earthwatch is canceled. You are no longer a host of this program or any
 > other program at this time. You may not co-host, substitute  as host,
 > produce for, or contribute to any other program at this time."
 >
 > Robert Knight received the George F. Polk Award, one of the most 
prestigious
 > journalism awards, for radio reporting on the 1989 US intervention of
 > Panama. He has also been honored by numerous other organizations for his
 > work, including the National Association of Black Journalists.
 >
 > In the 1980s, Robert Knight was WBAI News Director and later co-hosted a
 > nationally syndicated morning program "Contragate" about the Reagan-era
 > scandals in Central America.  The program broke several important 
stories.
 > Most recently, he has been covering the struggle over the future of 
Pacifica
 > Radio, and has been a critic of the direction of the Pacifica Board and 
the
 > current WBAI management.
 >
 > This latest move adds to the purge of more than 20 on-air and off-air 
WBAI
 > staff, which began with the December firing of 20-year station veteran 
and
 > Wake-Up Call, morning-show host Bernard White and Wake-Up Call producer 
and
 > union-shop steward Sharan Harper.
 >
 > During this "Christmas Coup," Pacifica's national executives changed 
locks
 > in the middle of the night and restricted access to the station. The
 > ruthless staff purge that followed this Coup included many of WBAI's most
 > politically-active programmers, including Janice K. Bryant, Rosalie 
Hoffman,
 > Al Lewis, union organizer Ken Nash, Cerene Roberts, thirty-year veteran
 > programmer Mimi Rosenberg, and news reporter Eileen Sutton
 >
 > Amy Goodman, who has won the top awards in U.S. broadcast journalism for 
her
 > reporting in East Timor and Nigeria, was fired by Leid as co-host of 
Wake-Up
 > Call in March. Goodman remains at WBAI -- at least for now -- as anchor 
of
 > the nationally distributed "Democracy Now!."
 >
 > Leid has also recently installed private security guards, a 
state-of-the-art
 > surveillance system, imposed a gag rule, and has prohibited the public 
from
 > entering the station for the listener-comment period of 
Local-Advisory-Board
 > meetings. Many staffers say they now work in a climate of terror.
 >
 > PLEASE TAKE IMMEDIATE ACTION
 > CALL, FAX, PICKET AND E-MAIL
 >
 > 1) CALL AND/OR FAX THE PACIFICA BOARD MEMBERS LISTED BELOW. Ken Ford is 
the
 > acting Board chair and Wendell Johns is another of the Board majority
 > members (a vice president of Fannie Mae, the federal home loan financial
 > giatn). Protest the arbitrary firing of one of Pacifica's most 
distinguished
 > journalists and call for the return of all the fired and the banned at 
WBAI.
 > Please also demand that these board members resign today. The turmoil has
 > gone on too long. Please be polite and keep the message simple.
 >
 > Acting Board Chair Ken Ford
 > Tel: 202-822-0228
 > Tel: 301-350-6388
 > Fax: 202-822-0369
 >
 > Board member Wendell L. Johns
 > Tel: 202-752-5355
 > Fax: 202-752-4281
 >
 > 2) PICKET WBAI THURSDAY, JULY 26, 5:00-7:00 PM
 > Location: 120 Wall Street, downtown Manhattan. Take the 2, 3 or the 4, 5
 > trains to Wall Street
 >
 > 3) Call in to any program that accepts calls at 212-209-2900 to  protest 
and
 > announce actions and meetings. Also call the station at 212-209-2800 to
 > protest.
 >
 > 4) ATTEND AN EMERGENCY MEETING OF CONCERNED FRIENDS OF WBAI ACTION AND
 > OUTREACH COMMITTEES SUNDAY, JULY 29, from 1:00-2:00 pm. Location TBA. 
Please
 > call 1-800-825-0055.
 >
 > 5) EMAIL
 >
 > Cut the below list of email addresses, paste it into the To: line of your
 > email composition form, and then cut and paste the text of the letter or
 > compose your own, and send it.  Also go to:
 > http://www.progressiveportal.org/letters/pacifica/resign/
 >
 > kford@..., KenFordPacifica@..., bsmith@...,
 > jmurdock@..., wendell_L_johns@..., Alfigo@...,
 > Valrie.Chambers@..., pacificacampaign@...
 >
 > Sample Text
 >
 > Dear Pacifica Board member,
 >
 > The arbitrary firing of award-winning WBAI news reporter Robert Knight on
 > July 25 shocks the conscience of the entire WBAI community.
 >
 > Robert Knight received the George F. Polk Award for radio reporting on 
the
 > 1989 U.S. intervention of Panama. He has also been honored by numerous 
other
 > organizations for his work, including the National Association of Black
 > Journalists. He is one of the most distinguished journalists in the 
Pacifica
 > Radio network.
 >
 > But, sadly, his name is now added to the more than 20 on-air and off-air
 > WBAI staff who have been purged from the station since the December 
firing
 > of 20-year station veteran and Wake-Up Call morning-show host Bernard 
White
 > and Wake-Up Call producer and union-shop steward Sharan Harper.
 >
 > This act of retaliation against Robert by WBAI interim general manager
 > Utrice Leid will not go unchallenged. It underscores the new for new
 > leadership at WBAI and the Pacifica Radio network. And it will only fuel 
the
 > determination and commitment of the WBAI and larger Pacifica community to
 > reclaim the network for those who respect labor rights, free speech and
 > Pacifica's historic mission for peace and social justice.
 >
 >
 >
 > **********************************************
 > Tax deductible contributions to support the work of the Pacifica Campaign
 > may be made to our fiscal sponsor, a 501 (c) (3) organization. Make 
checks
 > payable to: Institute for Media Analysis-Pacifica Campaign. Our mailing
 > address: The Pacifica Campaign, 51 MacDougal St., #80, New York, NY  
10012.
 > Thank-you.
 >
 > Check out our web site at http://www.pacificacampaign.org
 >
 >
 > GG
 >
 >


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1884
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-28 01:54:33
Subject:Louis Armstrong Centennial Broadcast
Message:

Check it out: 89.9 WKCR-FM is broadcasting all Satchmo, all day and night 
from now until his actual 100th birthday, August 4, 2001!  Experience the 
greatness of jazz at it's deepest root... (& American culture at it's 
greatest!)

Long live Pops! -Matt




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Satchmo.com's Tribute to Jazz Legend Louis Armstrong
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Props For Pops
If Louis Armstrong were still alive, he would have been celebrating his 
100th birthday on July 4, 2000. Louis believed his birth date to be July 4, 
1900. His baptismal certificate, indicating a birth date of August 4, 1901 
was discovered in 1983, 12 years after his death on July 6, 1971.



_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1885
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-28 18:34:11
Subject:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

Revolutionaries SI!! Republicans NO!

SWORD Reinstated!! by the community- yes vote 9
                                     no vote 8

flavier, what do you mean when you state that you vote against SWORD because 
you say to me, "you don't support democracy"?

load of pond ducks

explainations are due- all members who voted against SWORD being in the NBPC 
must explain themselves. next meeting will suffice unless we see each other 
sooner.

keith how does SWORD members join nbpcmembers@egroups.com

joe smith


>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
>Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:08:25 -0000
>
> > narrow brain with loud mouth
>
>Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point is an ad
>hominem attack....
>
> > if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more prepared or
>less to win new brunswick in november?
>
>Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn
>listserve!
>
> > U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would serve
>the peoples' campaign tremendously.
>
>It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals whose
>ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't
>understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and
>unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do you sell
>to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be surprised, and
>we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.
>
> > old relations and active organizations are something to be learned
>from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but they
>have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.
>
>Please specify which one of these old relations or active
>organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to
>office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how much
>can they really teach us?
>
>
> > again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new brunswick
>and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective
>strategy amongst local activists is put together the better. there is
>no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to argue such
>only shows your own support for schundler.
>
>What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information (i.e.
>the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry L.
>Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back Jim
>McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support Schundler!
>
>
> > in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its line
>of community control with its sell out to republicans, where's your
>arguements against this happening?
>
>In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning the
>Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor and two
>council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those who will
>be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about
>struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's about
>winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.
>
>
>
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1886
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-29 04:55:43
Subject:Re: U&S production- lack there of...
Message:

I decided to
Send you haiku for your own
Edification

Here are some things that
You ought to know about life
Please pay attention

1.

You were born on a 
Puppy farm in New Jersey
You are a collie

You smell your friend's ass
You thought she was a small dog
She's just a big cat

2.

Go to church with a 
Llama and a prostitute
You'll get kicked out fast

If you wear a dress
Your boss will think you are gay
Wear beige slacks instead

3.

Don't cheat on your wife
With a freshly caught tuna
She'll smell it on you

If you love it good
It will make you smell so bad
Like a seafood store

4.

Jesus Christ told you
To sniff airplane glue daily
Now you are a dog

Saint Bartholemew
Is the patron saint of shrimp
And other shellfish


5.

Princess Diana
Lives in a box in your house
She faked her own death

You look at pictures
Of the Queen Mother naked
You have quite odd tastes

6.

Bret Schundler has a
Pompadour and garlic breath
He thinks he's Reagan

Bret Schundler hates you
He ran over your pet cat
He's often like that

Conclusion
----------

I hope you liked these
They are for your benefit
Please do enjoy them

Sincerely, your friend
Master of haiku and love
'Haiku Master J'

PS --

I am an artist
Though I am not Amiri
I can write as well




  










































--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> el senior, you are a peoples' campaign sell-out!! now get out!
> 
> you did not ever, until exposed, come out with being republican!
> 
> the peoples' campaign was founded to launch the platform of 
democratic 
> community control over the institutions that control the community, 
lier!
> 
> el comprador, what exactly is your problem with the republican 
party, that 
> you suggest "I can only work to change the image republican party 
if i'm in 
> the republican party"?
> 
> stop acting like you wear diapers, republicans serve white 
supremacy and 
> international finance capital, to say otherwise will further expose 
your 
> sell-out desires.
> 
> fuck you. fuck your boss. fuck his boss. and fuck schundler!
> your just waiting for skunk to come around to schundler you wannaB.
> 
> joe smith
> Stundent/Worker Organization For Revolutionary Democracy
> 732.586.5535
> 13 James Street New Brunswick 08901
> can_bush@h...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: citruswar@a...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] U&S production- lack there of...
> >Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 09:57:54 EDT
> >
> >To all concerned!
> >
> >I know it may seem strange that I openly advocate being a 
republican, but I
> >have also stressed that I am a People's Campain Republican!  I 
feel deep in
> >my heart that it is important for me to hold on to this new  
political 
> >title.
> >
> >I can only work to change the image of the Republican Party if I'm 
in the
> >Republican Party.  When the human body is sick, the doctor gives 
you a
> >prescription to put inside your mouth, thus inside of the body.  I 
am 
> >trying
> >to work on that theory.  That I can work from the inside out and 
change the
> >Republican Party into a People's Campaign Republican Party.  Our 
original
> >idea for People's Campaign was that all political groups could 
come 
> >together
> >for the common good of mankind.  If we loose this theory then we 
have lost
> >the original spirit of People's Campaign.  I no longer will get 
angry or
> >upset with anyone who decides to deface, slander or make negative 
comments
> >about other Republicans including:  Reverend  Dr. DeForest Blake 
Soaries 
> >Jr.
> >When you take a baby, who is hungry and wet and crying out for 
attention, 
> >the
> >baby does not care whether or not the mother or father attends to 
it.  It 
> >is
> >just satisfied to know that its needs are met.  We should feel the 
same way
> >about the needs of this nation.  Communist, Democrats, Republicans,
> >Right-Winged, Left-Winged, etc. should work toward the common 
goal.  The 
> >old
> >saying: "Two heads are better than one" I feel will really work 
for our
> >cause.  I cannot account or justify anyone else's actions but my 
own.  I am 
> >a
> >People's Campaign Republican until People' s Campaign does 
something that 
> >is
> >directly against its original theory of serving the people.
> >
> >Curtis L. Warren Sr.
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1887
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-29 13:01:44
Subject:Republican Threats
Message:

Joe,

I am glad that you are continuing on that same route, it justifies my
commitment to the promise that I made to you over the phone.

I am sincerely pursuing every avenue to secure that promise to you if I will 
go down in history for anything,  it will be for completing what I said to 
you over the phone.

The only regret that I have will be the lost friendship to your brother 
Matt.

  See ya, when I see ya.

this message was received by me sunday july 29 from republican curtis warren 
from new brunswick. Waron Curtis is refering to calls he made to my cell 
phone, july 7,  in which he stated that he was gunna hunt me down and where 
is 13 James St. (my address) cause he's comin to fuck me up. My only 
arguements with WarOn Curtis have been about his backwards racist republican 
agenda.

Peoples' war on the right! Smash Schoundler!!

joe smith

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1888
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-29 14:11:39
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] HIGH-SPEED POLICE CHASES OF STOLEN CARS BY POLICE MUST STOP
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: Mmah191@...
Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [poprogress] (no subject)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 11:52:21 EDT

PEOPLE'S ORGANIZATION FOR PROGRESS
POST OFFICE BOX 22505
NEWARK, NEW JERSEY 07101-2505
(973) 801-0001


HIGH-SPEED POLICE CHASES OF STOLEN CARS BY POLICE MUST STOP
(Statement by Lawrence Hamm, Chairman of the People's Organization For
Progress, at a vigil in Newark for Patricia Trammell July 29, 2001)

HIGH-SPEED CHASES OF STOLEN CARS BY POLICE HAVE RECENTLY RESULTED IN THE
DEATHS OF CRYSTAL LEE AND PATRICIA TRAMMELL, AND SERIOUS INJURY TO CURTIS
BERRY, JESSICA PEMBERTON, CHANTE CHAMBERS AND OTHERS.

TODAY, THE PEOPLE'S ORGANIZATION FOR PROGRESS ONCE AGAIN CALLS FOR A BAN ON
HIGH-SPEED POLICE PURSUITS OF STOLEN VEHICLES IN HIGHLY POPULATED AREAS.  WE
CALL UPON THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO REVISE THE STATE GUIDELINES ON
HIGH-SPEED CHASES BY POLICE, AND WE CALL ON COUNTY AND MUNICIPAL 
GOVERNMENTS,
ESPECIALLY HERE IN ESSEX COUNTY, TO DO THE SAME.  FAILURE TO DO SO WILL ONLY
RESULT IN FUTURE DEATHS OF INNOCENT VICTIMS LIKE CRYSTAL LEE AND PATRICIA
TRAMMELL.

A SPOKESPERSON FOR THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE  SAID THAT REWRITING
THE GUIDELINES WOULD BE GIVING CAR THIEVES A PASS.  THE IMPLICATION HERE IS
THAT WE SUPPORT CAR THIEVES.  WE FIND THIS HIGHLY INSULTING AND WE DEMAND AN
IMMEDIATE APOLOGY FROM THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.  WE, IN THE
STATE'S URBAN BLACK AND LATINO COMMUNITIES ARE AMONG THE BIGGEST VICTIMS OF
CRIME.  WE ARE OPPOSED TO AUTO THEFT AND WE WANT CAR THIEVES CAUGHT.  WE 
ONLY
BELIEVE THAT INNOCENT PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE KILLED IN THE PROCESS.  A STOLEN
CAR CAN BE REPLACED.  A HUMAN LIFE CANNOT.  THE SAFETY OF THE PEOPLE AND THE
POLICE OFFICERS THEMSELVES MUST BE THE PRIMARY CONSIDERATION.

THAT SPOKESPERSON ALSO SAID THAT STATUTORY CHANGES WOULD BE NECESSARY BEFORE
THE GUIDELINES COULD BE CHANGED.  TODAY THE PEOPLE'S ORGANIZATION FOR
PROGRESS CALLS UPON STATE LEGISLATORS, AND ELECTED OFFICIALS FROM THIS AREA
TO SPEAK OUT ON THIS ISSUE AND PUT FORWARD THE NECESSARY ENABLING 
LEGISLATION.

NEWARK POLICE DIRECTOR JOSEPH SANTIAGO HAS SAID THAT A NO-CHASE POLICY WOULD
AMOUNT TO "MALFEASANCE."  WE SAY IT WOULD BE GOOD COMMON SENSE.  NEW YORK
CITY HAS SUCH A POLICY.  IS THE ENTIRE NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT 
GUILTY
OF MALFEASEANCE?  IF NEW YORK CITY CAN DO IT, WHOSE POPULATION IS LARGER 
THAN
ALL OF NEW JERSEY'S AND WHOSE POLICE FORCE IS TEN TIMES THE SIZE OF 
NEWARK'S,
THEN CITIES IN THIS STATE CAN DO IT.  I ASK ATTORNEY GENERAL FARMER AND
DIRECTOR SANTIAGO HOW MANY MORE INNOCENT PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO DIE BEFORE YOU
FORMULATE NEW POLICIES?

ON THE OTHER HAND, THE CARJACKING AND AUTO THEFTS MUST STOP.  WE HOPE THAT
ANYONE EVEN THINKING ABOUT STELAING A CAR WILL REMEMBER CRYSTAL  LEE AND
PATRICIA TRAMMELL,  AND THEN DECIDE NOT DO IT.  WHEN YOU STEAL A CAR
EVERYBODY LOSES.  YOU LOSE WHEN YOU ARE HURT AND CAUGHT OR KILLED IN THE
PROCESS.  INNOCENT PEOPLE LOSE WHEN THEY ARE HURT AND KILLED IN THE PROCESS.
THE WHOLE COMMUNITY LOSES BECAUSE THE QUALITY OF LIFE IS NEGATIVELY 
AFFECTED.



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1889
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-29 14:16:01
Subject:Fwd: [motherlandcollective] Newark Public Library August Programs
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: Elisabeth Ssenjovu <essenjovu@...>
Reply-To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motherlandcollective] Newark Public Library August Programs
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 06:40:29 -0700 (PDT)



T H E   N E W A R K   P U B L I C   L I B R A R Y
5 WASHINGTON STREET, NEWARK, NEW JERSEY  07102
P R E S S   R E L E A S E
July 24, 2001
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: J. Dennis Papp
733-7798; dpapp@...

Library announces programs for August

The Newark Public Library announced its program schedule for August.
These free cultural programs will be held at the main library, 5
Washington Street; the branch library programs follow the main
library listing. For more information, consult the phone number
listed or visit the library's home page: www.npl.org.

TWO EXHIBITIONS--The United States and World War II, an exhibition
comprising historic posters, songs and photographs from 1941-1945,
selected from the library's Special Collections. On view on the third-
floor gallery, through September 8, during library hours.
Architecture Observed, an exhibition featuring monumental and
historic books on architecture, plus original prints and posters, and
color drawings by Frank Lloyd Wright. On view on the second-floor
gallery, through September 8, during library hours. William J. Dane
curated both exhibitions. Call (973) 733-7745.

1--World War II: a program presented by the library's William J. Dane
and Herb A. Williams. It focuses on the music, dance and history of
World War II, as well as a discussion of the library's current
exhibition on the subject. It will be held in Centennial Hall,
beginning 6pm. Call (973) 733-7745 (Dane) or 733-7847 (Williams).

8-"Lawn Read-A-Thon" series: a video showing of Four by Ailey, a
presentation of Alvin Ailey's Dance Theatre. Program will be held
outdoors in library's north garden (in Centennial Hall in case of
rain), beginning at Noon. Patrons are invited to bring a bag lunch;
the library will provide soft drinks. Call (973) 733-7847.

9, 16, 23, 30--"Steps to Success" career and job program series, held
in the fourth-floor Auditorium, from 2pm to 4pm. August 9: The Basics
(assess your skills and identify occupations); August 16: The Resume
(develop effective resumes and cover letters); August 23: The Job
Search (create an action plan and target prospective employers);
August 30: The Interview (learn tips on dress and behavior, as well
as answers to tough questions). Call (973) 733-7779.

15-"Lawn Read-A-Thon" series presents Abstract Art.  Program will be
held outdoors in library's north garden (in Centennial Hall in case
of rain), beginning at Noon. Patrons are invited to bring a bag
lunch; the library will provide soft drinks. Call (973) 733-7847.

18--The Frances E.W. Harper Literary Society presents the
program "Writer's Forum: Writers as Educators." It will be held in
Centennial Hall from 10am to 12:30pm. Call (973) 733-5411.

25--"The Prudential Foundation Summer Reading Challenge" will hold
its awards ceremony for those children who participated in this
summer's program by reading and reporting on at least five books.
Centennial Hall, 10am. Call (973) 733-5642.

Master magician Jim Vagias will conclude his presentation of "Reading
Is Cool" on August 15 at two branch libraries. This fun-filled,
audience-participation series was funded by the Newark Public
Schools. At 1:30pm, the program will be held at the First Avenue
branch (282 First Avenue, 973-733-8091); at 2:45pm, it will be
presented at the Roseville branch (99 North 5th Street, 973-733-7770).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Feel free to pass this email along.

The Go Newark Network
GoNewark.com - Guide2Newark.com - TheNewarker.com





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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1890
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-29 14:38:48
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: U&S production- lack there of...
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: jagross66@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Re: U&S production- lack there of...
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 08:55:43 -0000


I decided to
Send you haiku for your own
Edification

(I decided to respond)

Here are some things that
You ought to know about life
Please pay attention

(Don't remember asking, but thanx,,,)

1.

You were born on a
Puppy farm in New Jersey
You are a collie

(Cicero, Chicago...I wanted to be a horse.)

You smell your friend's ass
You thought she was a small dog
She's just a big cat

(She also wanted to be a horse.)

2.

Go to church with a
Llama and a prostitute
You'll get kicked out fast

(Unless it's their church)

If you wear a dress
Your boss will think you are gay
Wear beige slacks instead

(F Cackies. I wore a skirt to X & Kerry's wedding, though, and their 
families just KNEW i was gay!)

3.

Don't cheat on your wife
With a freshly caught tuna
She'll smell it on you

(Not married)

If you love it good
It will make you smell so bad
Like a seafood store

(Tuna makes me fart)

4.

Jesus Christ told you
To sniff airplane glue daily
Now you are a dog

(Was that Jesus? I thought it was the dog talking)

Saint Bartholemew
Is the patron saint of shrimp
And other shellfish

(Saint James is the patron saint of silly non-sequitor)

5.

Princess Diana
Lives in a box in your house
She faked her own death

(I am the Walrus)

You look at pictures
Of the Queen Mother naked
You have quite odd tastes

(Coo-coo-cachu)

6.

Bret Schundler has a
Pompadour and garlic breath
He thinks he's Reagan

(You made me look up 'Papadour'. I hate you.  I hate Reagan more.  I'm 
learning to hate Schundler.  I don't hate you.)

Bret Schundler hates you
He ran over your pet cat
He's often like that

(It's come to that.)

Conclusion
----------

I hope you liked these
They are for your benefit
Please do enjoy them

(You're so kind)

Sincerely, your friend
Master of haiku and love
'Haiku Master J'

(Master!? You're still, like, "Wax on! Wax off!")

PS --

I am an artist
Though I am not Amiri
I can write as well

(Don't be so sure.)

-Love, Matthew




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1892
Sender:"Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-29 17:12:55
Subject:FREE back issues of The Nation, The Progressive, etc...
Message:

Anyone interested in doing research or just reading up on back issues... we
are cleaning out our library, and many many issues of The Nation, The
Progressive, as well as a few other politically-oriented texts going back
for years are going to be discarded.  There's a wealth of information in
there but realistically we're just not going to go back through them.  I'd
rather see someone else make use rather than recycling them.

Please contact me ASAP if you are interested or you know anyone who may be.
E-mail or phone me at 732-819-0919.

Chris







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1893
Sender:"Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-29 17:14:14
Subject:RE: [nbpc] Re: U&S production- lack there of...
Message:

>PS --
>
>I am an artist
>Though I am not Amiri
>I can write as well

Often better, even ;)














































--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> el senior, you are a peoples' campaign sell-out!! now get out!
>
> you did not ever, until exposed, come out with being republican!
>
> the peoples' campaign was founded to launch the platform of
democratic
> community control over the institutions that control the community,
lier!
>
> el comprador, what exactly is your problem with the republican
party, that
> you suggest "I can only work to change the image republican party
if i'm in
> the republican party"?
>
> stop acting like you wear diapers, republicans serve white
supremacy and
> international finance capital, to say otherwise will further expose
your
> sell-out desires.
>
> fuck you. fuck your boss. fuck his boss. and fuck schundler!
> your just waiting for skunk to come around to schundler you wannaB.
>
> joe smith
> Stundent/Worker Organization For Revolutionary Democracy
> 732.586.5535
> 13 James Street New Brunswick 08901
> can_bush@h...
>
>
>
>
> >From: citruswar@a...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] U&S production- lack there of...
> >Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 09:57:54 EDT
> >
> >To all concerned!
> >
> >I know it may seem strange that I openly advocate being a
republican, but I
> >have also stressed that I am a People's Campain Republican!  I
feel deep in
> >my heart that it is important for me to hold on to this new
political
> >title.
> >
> >I can only work to change the image of the Republican Party if I'm
in the
> >Republican Party.  When the human body is sick, the doctor gives
you a
> >prescription to put inside your mouth, thus inside of the body.  I
am
> >trying
> >to work on that theory.  That I can work from the inside out and
change the
> >Republican Party into a People's Campaign Republican Party.  Our
original
> >idea for People's Campaign was that all political groups could
come
> >together
> >for the common good of mankind.  If we loose this theory then we
have lost
> >the original spirit of People's Campaign.  I no longer will get
angry or
> >upset with anyone who decides to deface, slander or make negative
comments
> >about other Republicans including:  Reverend  Dr. DeForest Blake
Soaries
> >Jr.
> >When you take a baby, who is hungry and wet and crying out for
attention,
> >the
> >baby does not care whether or not the mother or father attends to
it.  It
> >is
> >just satisfied to know that its needs are met.  We should feel the
same way
> >about the needs of this nation.  Communist, Democrats, Republicans,
> >Right-Winged, Left-Winged, etc. should work toward the common
goal.  The
> >old
> >saying: "Two heads are better than one" I feel will really work
for our
> >cause.  I cannot account or justify anyone else's actions but my
own.  I am
> >a
> >People's Campaign Republican until People' s Campaign does
something that
> >is
> >directly against its original theory of serving the people.
> >
> >Curtis L. Warren Sr.
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1894
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-29 20:49:54
Subject:Re: Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:

When you say, "explain yourself", it seems as though you are 
demanding a confession of sin, of inner fallenness.  A confession is 
not an argument.    

I will, however, provide arguments as to why I _would have_ voted 
against your clique's aims.  (I was, unfortunately, unable to attend 
the meeting).  In short, I would not have voted against your clique's 
readmittance to the organization.  I would have voted against so much 
as bringing it up for a vote.  

In short, it is my understanding that, on several bases, the vote was 
not legitimate.  It was not really a democratic vote at all.  The 
most obvious objection is that it wasn't even on the agenda; the 
standard practice is that such things are proposed at a meeting 
during the first month, and then placed on the agenda for a vote 
during the following month.  

Do you object to the norm of _open participation_ as a central 
element of democracy?  Unless you do, you must agree with me.

The use of agendas and preliminary votes, as described above, exist 
in part so that people may be forewarned as to what is up for a vote 
during the following meeting.  That way, if someone is out of town, 
etc, they can vote by absentee means.  This was formally, 
democratically adopted by the Campaign.  However, certain rules are 
so central to basic democratic norms that they stand whether or not 
they were codified into law.  The fact that they were adopted as 
written rules only bolsters my claims.  

Do you also propose that individuals have their 'voting rights' in an 
organization stifled?   

I can provide several more arguments, but I'll let this one stand as 
pretty much sufficient.  If you have a counter-argument, present it.  
I don't want to hear 1) childish nicknames like 'Waron Curtis', 2) a 
stream of slogans, 3) watery rhetoric about 'the people' or 'the 
community'.  You are not 'the community' nor 'the people' any more 
than Donald DiFrancesco _is_ 'the people of New Jersey' in one 
person.      

PS --

Your organization is just as susceptible to the 'arrogance of power' 
as any other, so stop 'playing victim'.  Actually, since you seem to 
reject the norm(s) of legality, it is more susceptible.          

PPS --

These are not 'my arguments'.  These are standard arguments that any 
reasonable person with a basic commitment to liberal democratic norms 
would make.  It is only 'my' presentation of standard arguments.  So 
please address the arguments, and not me.      

Yours,

Jeremy


> Revolutionaries SI!! Republicans NO!
> 
> SWORD Reinstated!! by the community- yes vote 9
>                                      no vote 8
> 
> flavier, what do you mean when you state that you vote against 
SWORD because 
> you say to me, "you don't support democracy"?
> 
> load of pond ducks
> 
> explainations are due- all members who voted against SWORD being in 
the NBPC 
> must explain themselves. next meeting will suffice unless we see 
each other 
> sooner.
> 
> keith how does SWORD members join nbpcmembers@egroups.com
> 
> joe smith
> 
> 
> >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
> >Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:08:25 -0000
> >
> > > narrow brain with loud mouth
> >
> >Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point is an 
ad
> >hominem attack....
> >
> > > if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more prepared 
or
> >less to win new brunswick in november?
> >
> >Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn
> >listserve!
> >
> > > U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would 
serve
> >the peoples' campaign tremendously.
> >
> >It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals whose
> >ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't
> >understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and
> >unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do you 
sell
> >to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be surprised, and
> >we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.
> >
> > > old relations and active organizations are something to be 
learned
> >from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but 
they
> >have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.
> >
> >Please specify which one of these old relations or active
> >organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to
> >office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how much
> >can they really teach us?
> >
> >
> > > again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new 
brunswick
> >and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective
> >strategy amongst local activists is put together the better. there 
is
> >no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to argue 
such
> >only shows your own support for schundler.
> >
> >What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information (i.e.
> >the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry L.
> >Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back Jim
> >McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support Schundler!
> >
> >
> > > in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its 
line
> >of community control with its sell out to republicans, where's your
> >arguements against this happening?
> >
> >In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning the
> >Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor and 
two
> >council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those who 
will
> >be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about
> >struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's about
> >winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1895
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-29 21:39:01
Subject:Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

>When you say, "explain yourself", it seems as though you are
>demanding a confession of sin, of inner fallenness.  A confession is
>not an argument.

an explaination is an arguement.

>
>I will, however, provide arguments as to why I _would have_ voted
>against your clique's aims.  (I was, unfortunately, unable to attend
>the meeting).  In short, I would not have voted against your clique's
>readmittance to the organization.  I would have voted against so much
>as bringing it up for a vote.

my organizations aim is community control over the community through 
Revolutionary Democracy. what is your clique's aim?

>In short, it is my understanding that, on several bases, the vote was
>not legitimate.  It was not really a democratic vote at all.  The
>most obvious objection is that it wasn't even on the agenda; the
>standard practice is that such things are proposed at a meeting
>during the first month, and then placed on the agenda for a vote
>during the following month.

it was on the agenda as soon as the meeting was open to the public.


>Do you object to the norm of _open participation_ as a central
>element of democracy?  Unless you do, you must agree with me.

open participation is what you are aguing against when you claim the agenda 
more important that the will of the public in attendance.

>The use of agendas and preliminary votes, as described above, exist
>in part so that people may be forewarned as to what is up for a vote
>during the following meeting.  That way, if someone is out of town,
>etc, they can vote by absentee means.  This was formally,
>democratically adopted by the Campaign.  However, certain rules are
>so central to basic democratic norms that they stand whether or not
>they were codified into law.  The fact that they were adopted as
>written rules only bolsters my claims.

you can write all the rules you want, peoples' democracy was not violated by 
the expulsion on all republicans, nor the readmittance of BOL/SWORD

>Do you also propose that individuals have their 'voting rights' in an
>organization stifled?

nobody had their voting rights stifled. although if you attempt to block 
votes on the basis of an agenda it will be you who wears that charge.

>I can provide several more arguments, but I'll let this one stand as
>pretty much sufficient.  If you have a counter-argument, present it.
>I don't want to hear 1) childish nicknames like 'Waron Curtis', 2) a
>stream of slogans, 3) watery rhetoric about 'the people' or 'the
>community'.  You are not 'the community' nor 'the people' any more
>than Donald DiFrancesco _is_ 'the people of New Jersey' in one
>person.

what are you talking about? what counter argument is needed for your agenda 
position?


>PS --

>Your organization is just as susceptible to the 'arrogance of power'
>as any other, so stop 'playing victim'.  Actually, since you seem to
>reject the norm(s) of legality, it is more susceptible.

can you explain what point you are trying to make. i am not asking for a 
confession. i can make out the threat of it, but what is it all wrapped up 
in?

>PPS --

>These are not 'my arguments'.  These are standard arguments that any
>reasonable person with a basic commitment to liberal democratic norms
>would make.  It is only 'my' presentation of standard arguments.  So
>please address the arguments, and not me.


liberal democratic norms will ruin the peoples' campaign. and as much as you 
promote them is as much as they'll be your arguments.

>Yours,
>
>Jeremy
>
>
> > Revolutionaries SI!! Republicans NO!
> >
> > SWORD Reinstated!! by the community- yes vote 9
> >                                      no vote 8
> >
> > flavier, what do you mean when you state that you vote against
>SWORD because
> > you say to me, "you don't support democracy"?
> >
> > load of pond ducks
> >
> > explainations are due- all members who voted against SWORD being in
>the NBPC
> > must explain themselves. next meeting will suffice unless we see
>each other
> > sooner.
> >
> > keith how does SWORD members join nbpcmembers@egroups.com
> >
> > joe smith
> >
> >
> > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
> > >Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:08:25 -0000
> > >
> > > > narrow brain with loud mouth
> > >
> > >Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point is an
>ad
> > >hominem attack....
> > >
> > > > if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more prepared
>or
> > >less to win new brunswick in november?
> > >
> > >Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn
> > >listserve!
> > >
> > > > U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would
>serve
> > >the peoples' campaign tremendously.
> > >
> > >It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals whose
> > >ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't
> > >understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and
> > >unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do you
>sell
> > >to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be surprised, and
> > >we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.
> > >
> > > > old relations and active organizations are something to be
>learned
> > >from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but
>they
> > >have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.
> > >
> > >Please specify which one of these old relations or active
> > >organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to
> > >office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how much
> > >can they really teach us?
> > >
> > >
> > > > again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new
>brunswick
> > >and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective
> > >strategy amongst local activists is put together the better. there
>is
> > >no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to argue
>such
> > >only shows your own support for schundler.
> > >
> > >What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information (i.e.
> > >the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry L.
> > >Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back Jim
> > >McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support Schundler!
> > >
> > >
> > > > in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its
>line
> > >of community control with its sell out to republicans, where's your
> > >arguements against this happening?
> > >
> > >In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning the
> > >Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor and
>two
> > >council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those who
>will
> > >be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about
> > >struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's about
> > >winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1896
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-29 22:02:35
Subject:Re: Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

>Joe,
>I don't know how to join the "members only" list but I would imganie that 
>the exclusive nature of the list is no longer necessary. I will send a msg. 
>to that list asking that you be adding or that the restrictions be taken 
>off altogther.

as long as BOL/SWORD are granted immediate access... and all known 
republicans are immediately denied access...

>I also wanted to say that I don't think that people need to explain why 
>they voted the way they did. People have a right to their opinion as well 
>as their vote.

if people don't want to hear it that's fine with me. flavier says i'm 
against democracy, he'll have to explain it somehow.

>I am hoping that ending the policy of excluding sword will lead to a 
>renewed campaign not more intensive name calling and accusations.

keith if you cannot sense that there is a large sectarian bloc leading the 
charge against SWORD organizing within the nbpc then i don't know what to 
tell you. i will organize open and above board, i will not conspire.

>I think that the main tasks before The People's Camapign are until the 
>November
>election are:
>1. the defeat of Shundler

we should begin immediate work on a voter registration/education campaign. 
many organizations throughout the state can be contacted to participate.

>2. cricticism/summation of past elctorial effort that concludes in 
>re-orientation and rectification with a set of POU's and renewed vow to the 
>local platform and the inclusion of a national platform or at least a 
>committment to developing one. In my opinion the Campaign without POU's and 
>a commitment to the platform is just chasing ambulances rather than 
>building a movement.  I already sent out this piece below but I am sending 
>it again. I am hoping that we can build some unity around it. I think that 
>it can serve as the begining for a rectification and reorientation.

i would suggest that until this is finely organized that we should draft our 
positions and present them at the general meetings. my criticism and 
summation will be known and i would encourage all members to make an effort 
to draft their own.


>
>Keith

joe smith

>
>What to do?
>
>      Since the February meeting the People's Campaign has become 
>increasing
>disoriented and isolated from any base whatsoever. The meetings following 
>February
>have been characterized by petty intrigues, petty debates about 
>organizational
>structure, expulsions, and a general crisis of identity. I think this state 
>is
>recognized by most but few are clear enough or willing enough to admit it. 
>This state
>of affairs has come about because of a bad strategy that was initiated at 
>the founding
>meeting of the campaign in January of 2000. The strategy that was put into 
>motion at
>said meeting was a united front against local the democratic party. This 
>strategy saw
>the local democratic party as the main target and then sought allies on 
>that basis
>leading us to ally ourselves with republicans among others. Our out look 
>was short
>sighted, narrow and parochial.
>      Instead of strategizing to build a movement over the long term we 
>thought only in
>terms of the upcoming election. This is a recipe for failure and has put us 
>in the
>position we are in today. It has confused the organization and those 
>associated with
>it to the point of paralysis. The last meetings resolution to have two main 
>objectives
>for the campaign (democracy ordinance and mayor's election 2000) is just 
>more
>wandering in the wilderness.
>      What we need is a ground up re-organization that begins with a sum up 
>of our
>success and failures in our last attempt. This must include a critique of 
>the faulty
>strategy that I already mentioned and include a new orientation. The new 
>orientation
>should begin with a strategy that states clearly that the Republican Party 
>is the main
>danger facing working people, students, and the democratic middle classes. 
>(This
>should be increasingly obvious as Bush 2 begins to set back the peace and 
>anti-war
>movement 30 years by unilaterally withdrawing from the Anti-Ballistic 
>Missile treaty,
>provoking Russia and China into a renewal of the arms race.)  Being that 
>they are the
>main danger they should be opposed independently where possible and in 
>coalition with
>the democratic party when necessary. Likewise the democratic party are no 
>friend of
>working people and it is our intention to build an independent movement. We 
>will
>oppose the democratic party where possible (like in New Brunswick) and 
>unite with them
>when there is a greater danger like in the upcoming gubernatorial election. 
>This
>should be our stated strategy.
>      We must unequivocally cease the bourgeois politician's practice of 
>being all
>things to all people. If we alienate some people we will inspire many more. 
>We are
>supposed to be political leaders, which means we have to be in front not 
>tailing
>behind the most backward sections of the population trying to offend no 
>one.
>The essence of our principles of unity should be struggle for People's 
>Democracy.
>Defined as majority rule. We want participatory democracy not manufactured 
>consent.
>We must be uncompromising when it comes to principles.
>     Also a final note as to fund raising since the only nominee for the 
>open steering
>committee seat believes that this is the most important issue. Money will 
>come after
>we do some good political work. No one is going to give us money to do good 
>political
>work. Instead of worrying about fundraising we should worry about build an
>organization and a movement with a clear strategy and set of principles. 
>The setting
>of fundraising as an ends in itself is a continuation of the  "office 
>community center
>democracy clubhouse" line that was defeated both in theory and in practice.
>
>
>
>
>joseph smith wrote:
>
> > Revolutionaries SI!! Republicans NO!
> >
> > SWORD Reinstated!! by the community- yes vote 9
> >                                      no vote 8
> >
> > flavier, what do you mean when you state that you vote against SWORD 
>because you say to me, "you don't support democracy"?
> >
> > load of pond ducks
> >
> > explainations are due- all members who voted against SWORD being in the 
>NBPC  must explain themselves. next meeting will suffice unless we see each 
>other sooner.
> >
> > keith how does SWORD members join nbpcmembers@egroups.com
> >
> > joe smith
> >
> > >From: Groovemeister007@...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
> > >Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:08:25 -0000
> > >
> > > > narrow brain with loud mouth
> > >
> > >Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point is an ad
> > >hominem attack....
> > >
> > > > if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more prepared or
> > >less to win new brunswick in november?
> > >
> > >Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn
> > >listserve!
> > >
> > > > U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would serve
> > >the peoples' campaign tremendously.
> > >
> > >It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals whose
> > >ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't
> > >understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and
> > >unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do you sell
> > >to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be surprised, and
> > >we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.
> > >
> > > > old relations and active organizations are something to be learned
> > >from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but they
> > >have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.
> > >
> > >Please specify which one of these old relations or active
> > >organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to
> > >office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how much
> > >can they really teach us?
> > >
> > >
> > > > again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new brunswick
> > >and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective
> > >strategy amongst local activists is put together the better. there is
> > >no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to argue such
> > >only shows your own support for schundler.
> > >
> > >What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information (i.e.
> > >the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry L.
> > >Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back Jim
> > >McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support Schundler!
> > >
> > >
> > > > in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its line
> > >of community control with its sell out to republicans, where's your
> > >arguements against this happening?
> > >
> > >In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning the
> > >Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor and two
> > >council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those who will
> > >be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about
> > >struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's about
> > >winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1897
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-30 00:17:41
Subject:Re: curious about something....
Message:

Matt,

I'll respond to you in a day or so, but privately and not on this 
egroup.  As I've said, U&S isn't a campaign newspaper and its 
production problems (like my problems with its contents) are not 
campaign business.

FLK


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> Flavio- I've seen you attack U&S a number of times now.  Of course 
one can't 
> be forced to like or embrace any outlet or point of view...but I'm 
curious 
> as to why you're so veimently down on the newspaper.  If you care 
to respond 
> -Matt
> 
> 
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Groovemeister007@y...
> Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:08:25 -0000
> 
>  > narrow brain with loud mouth
> 
> Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point is an 
ad
> hominem attack....
> 
>  > if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more prepared or
> less to win new brunswick in november?
> 
> Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn
> listserve!
> 
>  > U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would serve
> the peoples' campaign tremendously.
> 
> It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals whose
> ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't
> understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and
> unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do you sell
> to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be surprised, and
> we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.
> 
>  > old relations and active organizations are something to be 
learned
> from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but 
they
> have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.
> 
> Please specify which one of these old relations or active
> organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to
> office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how much
> can they really teach us?
> 
> 
>  > again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new brunswick
> and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective
> strategy amongst local activists is put together the better. there 
is
> no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to argue 
such
> only shows your own support for schundler.
> 
> What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information (i.e.
> the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry L.
> Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back Jim
> McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support Schundler!
> 
> 
>  > in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its 
line
> of community control with its sell out to republicans, where's your
> arguements against this happening?
> 
> In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning the
> Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor and 
two
> council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those who 
will
> be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about
> struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's about
> winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> 
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
> nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1898
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-30 00:36:55
Subject:Against Democracy!
Message:



>From: CitrusWar@...
>To: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: U&S production- lack there of...
>Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:47:37 EDT
>
>Joe,
>
>I am glad that you are continuing on that same route, it justifies my
>commitment to the promise that I made to you over the phone.
>
>I am sincerely pursuing every avenue to secure that promise to you if I 
>will
>go down in history for anything,  it will be for completing what I said to
>you over the phone.
>
>The only regret that I have will be the lost friendship to your brother 
>Matt.
>  See ya, when I see ya.


-message i received from el senior curtis warren


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1899
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-30 00:38:14
Subject:Re: Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

Joe & Keith,

As I understand it, nbpcmembers may be subscribed to by sending an 
email to nbpcmembers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com  One of the moderators 
must then approve the subscription.

The members' March 30 vote on listserves called for a members-only 
listserv which is what nbpcmembers is.  There is no reason for doing 
away with that distinction, nor has the membership said so to my 
knowledge (I was not personally at the 7/28 meeting).

More to the point, however, Joe's demand for access to nbpcmembers 
by "BOL/SWORD" is unclear.  Specifically, "members" of NBPC are 
allowed access to that list.  A "member" is:

1. New Brunswick residents, age 13 or older, whether citizens or not, 
upon appearing at a general meeting or a convention meeting; 

2. Non-New Brunswick residents, age 13 or older, whether citizens or 
not, who have within the last six months, performed actual work or 
rendered actual assistance to the Campaign, upon attending a full 
general meeting or convention meeting; and 

3. Any person under age 13, whether a citizen or not, who has within 
the last six months, performed actual work or rendered actual 
assistance to the Campaign. 


Before anybody gets access to nbpcmembers, they must fulfill one of 
those criteria.  So, I really don't know at this time who gets access 
because individuals get access, not organizations as Joe demands.  
(Or perhaps he's conceding that BOL/SWORD is him alone, I'm not 
sure).  At any rate, once a moderator receives proof that a 
particular person is a "member" as defined above, they can get access.

Keith, as to your other discussion about principles of unity, what 
are your objections (other than your mere disagreement with them) to 
the "goals," "purposes," "principles of unity" - call them what you 
will - adopted at the June meeting, specifically, winning the Pro-
Democracy Ordinance in 2001 and the mayor and 2 city council seats in 
2002?  The membership has spoken and I'm not sure what has changed to 
warrant us reconsidering those two guiding principles.  The 
membership has also spoken that opposing Bret Schundler is a means of 
implementing those principles.  I presume you don't want that aspect 
of implementing the goals/purposes/principles changed as well?



--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> 
> >Joe,
> >I don't know how to join the "members only" list but I would 
imganie that 
> >the exclusive nature of the list is no longer necessary. I will 
send a msg. 
> >to that list asking that you be adding or that the restrictions be 
taken 
> >off altogther.
> 
> as long as BOL/SWORD are granted immediate access... and all known 
> republicans are immediately denied access...
> 
> >I also wanted to say that I don't think that people need to 
explain why 
> >they voted the way they did. People have a right to their opinion 
as well 
> >as their vote.
> 
> if people don't want to hear it that's fine with me. flavier says 
i'm 
> against democracy, he'll have to explain it somehow.
> 
> >I am hoping that ending the policy of excluding sword will lead to 
a 
> >renewed campaign not more intensive name calling and accusations.
> 
> keith if you cannot sense that there is a large sectarian bloc 
leading the 
> charge against SWORD organizing within the nbpc then i don't know 
what to 
> tell you. i will organize open and above board, i will not conspire.
> 
> >I think that the main tasks before The People's Camapign are until 
the 
> >November
> >election are:
> >1. the defeat of Shundler
> 
> we should begin immediate work on a voter registration/education 
campaign. 
> many organizations throughout the state can be contacted to 
participate.
> 
> >2. cricticism/summation of past elctorial effort that concludes in 
> >re-orientation and rectification with a set of POU's and renewed 
vow to the 
> >local platform and the inclusion of a national platform or at 
least a 
> >committment to developing one. In my opinion the Campaign without 
POU's and 
> >a commitment to the platform is just chasing ambulances rather 
than 
> >building a movement.  I already sent out this piece below but I am 
sending 
> >it again. I am hoping that we can build some unity around it. I 
think that 
> >it can serve as the begining for a rectification and reorientation.
> 
> i would suggest that until this is finely organized that we should 
draft our 
> positions and present them at the general meetings. my criticism 
and 
> summation will be known and i would encourage all members to make 
an effort 
> to draft their own.
> 
> 
> >
> >Keith
> 
> joe smith
> 
> >
> >What to do?
> >
> >      Since the February meeting the People's Campaign has become 
> >increasing
> >disoriented and isolated from any base whatsoever. The meetings 
following 
> >February
> >have been characterized by petty intrigues, petty debates about 
> >organizational
> >structure, expulsions, and a general crisis of identity. I think 
this state 
> >is
> >recognized by most but few are clear enough or willing enough to 
admit it. 
> >This state
> >of affairs has come about because of a bad strategy that was 
initiated at 
> >the founding
> >meeting of the campaign in January of 2000. The strategy that was 
put into 
> >motion at
> >said meeting was a united front against local the democratic 
party. This 
> >strategy saw
> >the local democratic party as the main target and then sought 
allies on 
> >that basis
> >leading us to ally ourselves with republicans among others. Our 
out look 
> >was short
> >sighted, narrow and parochial.
> >      Instead of strategizing to build a movement over the long 
term we 
> >thought only in
> >terms of the upcoming election. This is a recipe for failure and 
has put us 
> >in the
> >position we are in today. It has confused the organization and 
those 
> >associated with
> >it to the point of paralysis. The last meetings resolution to have 
two main 
> >objectives
> >for the campaign (democracy ordinance and mayor's election 2000) 
is just 
> >more
> >wandering in the wilderness.
> >      What we need is a ground up re-organization that begins with 
a sum up 
> >of our
> >success and failures in our last attempt. This must include a 
critique of 
> >the faulty
> >strategy that I already mentioned and include a new orientation. 
The new 
> >orientation
> >should begin with a strategy that states clearly that the 
Republican Party 
> >is the main
> >danger facing working people, students, and the democratic middle 
classes. 
> >(This
> >should be increasingly obvious as Bush 2 begins to set back the 
peace and 
> >anti-war
> >movement 30 years by unilaterally withdrawing from the Anti-
Ballistic 
> >Missile treaty,
> >provoking Russia and China into a renewal of the arms race.)  
Being that 
> >they are the
> >main danger they should be opposed independently where possible 
and in 
> >coalition with
> >the democratic party when necessary. Likewise the democratic party 
are no 
> >friend of
> >working people and it is our intention to build an independent 
movement. We 
> >will
> >oppose the democratic party where possible (like in New Brunswick) 
and 
> >unite with them
> >when there is a greater danger like in the upcoming gubernatorial 
election. 
> >This
> >should be our stated strategy.
> >      We must unequivocally cease the bourgeois politician's 
practice of 
> >being all
> >things to all people. If we alienate some people we will inspire 
many more. 
> >We are
> >supposed to be political leaders, which means we have to be in 
front not 
> >tailing
> >behind the most backward sections of the population trying to 
offend no 
> >one.
> >The essence of our principles of unity should be struggle for 
People's 
> >Democracy.
> >Defined as majority rule. We want participatory democracy not 
manufactured 
> >consent.
> >We must be uncompromising when it comes to principles.
> >     Also a final note as to fund raising since the only nominee 
for the 
> >open steering
> >committee seat believes that this is the most important issue. 
Money will 
> >come after
> >we do some good political work. No one is going to give us money 
to do good 
> >political
> >work. Instead of worrying about fundraising we should worry about 
build an
> >organization and a movement with a clear strategy and set of 
principles. 
> >The setting
> >of fundraising as an ends in itself is a continuation of 
the  "office 
> >community center
> >democracy clubhouse" line that was defeated both in theory and in 
practice.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >joseph smith wrote:
> >
> > > Revolutionaries SI!! Republicans NO!
> > >
> > > SWORD Reinstated!! by the community- yes vote 9
> > >                                      no vote 8
> > >
> > > flavier, what do you mean when you state that you vote against 
SWORD 
> >because you say to me, "you don't support democracy"?
> > >
> > > load of pond ducks
> > >
> > > explainations are due- all members who voted against SWORD 
being in the 
> >NBPC  must explain themselves. next meeting will suffice unless we 
see each 
> >other sooner.
> > >
> > > keith how does SWORD members join nbpcmembers@egroups.com
> > >
> > > joe smith
> > >
> > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
> > > >Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:08:25 -0000
> > > >
> > > > > narrow brain with loud mouth
> > > >
> > > >Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point 
is an ad
> > > >hominem attack....
> > > >
> > > > > if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more 
prepared or
> > > >less to win new brunswick in november?
> > > >
> > > >Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn
> > > >listserve!
> > > >
> > > > > U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would 
serve
> > > >the peoples' campaign tremendously.
> > > >
> > > >It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals 
whose
> > > >ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't
> > > >understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and
> > > >unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do 
you sell
> > > >to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be 
surprised, and
> > > >we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.
> > > >
> > > > > old relations and active organizations are something to be 
learned
> > > >from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, 
but they
> > > >have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.
> > > >
> > > >Please specify which one of these old relations or active
> > > >organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to
> > > >office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how 
much
> > > >can they really teach us?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new 
brunswick
> > > >and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a 
collective
> > > >strategy amongst local activists is put together the better. 
there is
> > > >no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to 
argue such
> > > >only shows your own support for schundler.
> > > >
> > > >What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information 
(i.e.
> > > >the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry 
L.
> > > >Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back 
Jim
> > > >McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support 
Schundler!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged 
its line
> > > >of community control with its sell out to republicans, where's 
your
> > > >arguements against this happening?
> > > >
> > > >In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning 
the
> > > >Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor 
and two
> > > >council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those 
who will
> > > >be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about
> > > >struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's 
about
> > > >winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > 
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
> >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
> >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1902
Sender:BENJAMIN RAMOS <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-30 04:04:21
Subject:Bronx PR Day Parade
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is organizing a Political 
Prisoner/Vieques Contingent for this year's Bronx Puerto Rican Day 
Parade!!  If you are interested in marching with us and endorsing this  
contingent (list still in formation) then please join  us on:

WHEN:  Sunday August 5th, 2001 at 9am
WHERE: 174th St. and Grand Concourse in the Bronx
Take the D train to 174th-175th St.

We invite all organizations that are interested in joining our 
contingent to please contact ProLibertad at ProLibertad@..., or 
call our Bronx Office at 718-601-4751, Manhattan Office at 212-927-9065, 
or our New Jersey Office at 201-435-3244.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1903
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-30 04:28:38
Subject:[PROLIBERTAD] Peltier's Birthday - September 12
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign forwards this message out in hopes that the 
International community makes Sept. 12th a day of action, solidarity and 
support for our brother Leonard Peltier!!

****************Below is a mass call for support for Leonard 
Peltier******************************

LEONARD PELTIER'S BIRTHDAY - SEPTEMBER 12 - INITIATE LOCAL ACTIONS
>September 12, 2001 will mark Leonard Peltier's 57th birthday. What
>better way to celebrate than to support his freedom by organizing a
>local action on his behalf? There are many things you can do. Here are
>some actions that have been held in the past to commemorate Leonard
>Peltier's birthday:
>
>* Hold a demonstration or vigil: Help keep the Peltier case in the
>public eye by organizing a demonstration or vigil in protest of
>Peltier's wrongful imprisonment and the FBI's obstruction of justice.
>
>* Host a fundraiser birthday party: Organize a gathering - serve food
>and cake, sponsor entertainment, and/or show a video on the case in
>honor of Peltier. Collect donations from the attendees in support of
>Leonard Peltier 's continued defense.
>
>* Conduct a day of outreach: Maintain a presence in a busy area of your
>community (parks, street corners, concerts or events, etc.). Set up a
>literature table, grab a clipboard and collect signatures from passers
>by, or hand out leaflets.
>
>Please let us know as early as possible if you are organizing something
>so we can help publicize it. We also encourage you to invite your local
>press to cover your event. If you need help constructing press
>materials, feel free to contact us.
>
>In Solidarity,
>LPDC
>lpdc@...
>
>"Whoever's in charge up there
>Had better take the elevator down
>And put more than change in our cup
>Or else we.are coming.up."
>-- Ani DiFranco
>
>FREE LEONARD PELTIER!
>
>http://www.freepeltier.org

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1904
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-30 08:31:55
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: curious about something....
Message:

That's fine, Flavio- I look foward to your response.  But for the record: 1. 
Nobody besides Joe ever said it should be a campaign newspaper.  2. You 
still have made alot of condecending and unprincipled remarks about Amiri 
Baraka and about U&S on this egroup, so I think it's resonable to expect 
your reasoning here as well.  Otherwise, it doesn't have much credibility in 
my book.

Matt.



----Original Message Follows----
From: Groovemeister007@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Re: curious about something....
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 04:17:41 -0000

Matt,

I'll respond to you in a day or so, but privately and not on this
egroup.  As I've said, U&S isn't a campaign newspaper and its
production problems (like my problems with its contents) are not
campaign business.

FLK


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
 > Flavio- I've seen you attack U&S a number of times now.  Of course
one can't
 > be forced to like or embrace any outlet or point of view...but I'm
curious
 > as to why you're so veimently down on the newspaper.  If you care
to respond
 > -Matt
 >
 >
 > ----Original Message Follows----
 > From: Groovemeister007@y...
 > Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 > Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
 > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:08:25 -0000
 >
 >  > narrow brain with loud mouth
 >
 > Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point is an
ad
 > hominem attack....
 >
 >  > if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more prepared or
 > less to win new brunswick in november?
 >
 > Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn
 > listserve!
 >
 >  > U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would serve
 > the peoples' campaign tremendously.
 >
 > It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals whose
 > ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't
 > understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and
 > unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do you sell
 > to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be surprised, and
 > we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.
 >
 >  > old relations and active organizations are something to be
learned
 > from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but
they
 > have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.
 >
 > Please specify which one of these old relations or active
 > organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to
 > office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how much
 > can they really teach us?
 >
 >
 >  > again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new brunswick
 > and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective
 > strategy amongst local activists is put together the better. there
is
 > no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to argue
such
 > only shows your own support for schundler.
 >
 > What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information (i.e.
 > the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry L.
 > Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back Jim
 > McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support Schundler!
 >
 >
 >  > in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its
line
 > of community control with its sell out to republicans, where's your
 > arguements against this happening?
 >
 > In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning the
 > Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor and
two
 > council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those who
will
 > be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about
 > struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's about
 > winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
 >
 > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
 >
 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1905
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-30 08:32:29
Subject:Fwd: ANOUNCEMENTS--ANUNCIOS
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "ViequesLibre" <ViequesLibre@...>
Reply-To: ViequesLibre-feedback-705@...
To: List Member <vivaohio@...>
Subject: ANOUNCEMENTS--ANUNCIOS
Date: 30 Jul 2001 03:28:09 -0000

[Bajar para espa�ol]

ANOUNCEMENTS

Remember to visit www.ViequesLibre.org for articles and updates. These are 
some of the most recent files added to the site:

1.Articles & Pictures about the referendum
http://www.viequeslibre.addr.com/demo/demo.htm

2.Write to Vieques� Prisoners of Conscience (updated list)
http://www.viequeslibre.addr.com/prisionero/prisionero.htm

3.List of Vieques� Residents Arrested for Civil Disobedience
http://www.viequeslibre.addr.com/prisionero/desobed_vieq.htm

4.Invite your contacts to join our e-mail list. Have them visit:
http://www.viequeslibre.addr.com/join.htm



=================================================
ANUNCIOS

Recuerde visitar www.ViequesLibre.org para art�culos y noticias. Esta es 
alguna de la informaci�n a�adida recientemente a la p�gina:

1. Art�culos y fotos sobre el referendum
http://www.viequeslibre.addr.com/demo/demo.htm

2. Escr�bele a los prisioneros de conciencia (lista actualizada)
http://www.viequeslibre.addr.com/prisionero/prisionero.htm

3. Lista de los residentes de Vieques arrestados por desobediencia civil
http://www.viequeslibre.addr.com/prisionero/desobed_vieq.htm

4. A�ade a tus contactos a nuestra lista de correo. Invitalos a visitar: 
http://www.viequeslibre.addr.com/join.htm


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1906
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-30 08:32:58
Subject:Fwd: Fw: Black NIA Force Meeting
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Trevor Phillips" <tphillipsjr-1@...>
To: "Aarian Pope" <aarianp@...>, <burnardwhite@...>, 
<brandisap225@...>
Subject: Fw: Black NIA Force Meeting
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 22:53:26 -0400

!!!PLEASE FORWARD!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Williams
To: Trevor Phillips
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 8:05 PM
Subject: Black NIA Force Meeting


Black NIA Force


Indulge your mind in an evening of discussion and dialogue
with Bernard White, former co-host of Wake Up Call (99.5 WBAI),
as he talks about The Privatization of Public Radio.  Join in the
enlightenment as Bernard outlines and probes the trouble at his
former place of employment WBAI.  The experience will be both
unique and fulfilling.


August 3, 2001 @8pm
808 South 10th St.
Newark, NJ 07108


For More Information Call 877.713.7313


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1907
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-30 08:46:22
Subject:Fwd: Vieques Vote to Get the Navy Out--Vieques Vota para Botar la Marina
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "ViequesLibre" <ViequesLibre@...>
Reply-To: ViequesLibre-feedback-704@...
To: List Member <vivaohio@...>
Subject: Vieques Vote to Get the Navy Out--Vieques Vota para Botar la Marina
Date: 29 Jul 2001 23:37:54 -0000

Vieques Libre - http://www.viequeslibre.org

[Bajar para espa�ol]

Vieques Vote to Get the Navy Out

Sunday, July 29, 2001
viequeslibre.org


With a participation of the 80.5% of the electorate, the Vieques� Anti-Navy 
Movement won the referendum with an overwhelming majority.  68% of the 
electorate voted for option 2, which called for the �Immediate and permanent 
termination of the military exercises and bombings of the Navy in Vieques. 
Withdrawal of the Navy from Vieques and cleaning and return of viequense 
lands to its citizens.�

From the early evening hours, people started to conglomerate in the Town 
Square to celebrate their victory. Various grassroots leaders have stated 
that today�s victory will help to further legitimate their historical 
claims. An official act of the Vieques� local government will take place 
tomorrow, Monday, July 30, in which an eviction notice will be handed out by 
the Vieques� major to the military personnel at Camp Garc�a.

In face of the resumption of the bombing planned by the Navy for August 1st, 
leaders have vowed to once again engage in Civil Disobedience in case that 
the Navy refuse to accept the democratic will of the people.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010729/wl/vieques_vote_7.html

Sunday July 29 6:09 PM ET

Vieques Residents Vote to End Bombing
By MICHELLE FAUL, Associated Press Writer

VIEQUES, Puerto Rico (AP) - Residents of Vieques voted overwhelmingly Sunday 
for the U.S. Navy to immediately stop bombing on this Puerto Rican island. 
The referendum is nonbinding, but the Puerto Rican government hopes it will 
influence Washington.

Sixty-eight percent of voters supported an end to the bombing and the Navy's 
withdrawal from the island that is home to its prized Atlantic range. About 
30 percent voted for the Navy to stay and resume using live munitions, 
according to the electoral commission.

President Bush's plan to pull the Navy out of Vieques in 2003 and allow 
training with inert bombs to continue in the interim mustered less than 2 
percent - 81 votes.

Islanders celebrated what they called ``a victory for peace in Vieques'' 
with whoops of joy, blaring car horns, and the waving of Puerto Rican and 
Vieques flags.

Puerto Rico Gov. Sila M. Calderon has said the results have no legal 
standing but do carry ``moral force'' that she hopes will influence the U.S. 
government.

But after the results were announced, the Navy said it would continue its 
training, due to resume on Vieques on Wednesday, and keep looking for an 
alternative for when it leaves the island in 2003.

``The outcome of this referendum, organized by Gov. Sila Calderon, will have 
no impact on the Navy or our focus,'' said Lt. Cmdr. Kate Mueller, a 
Washington-based Navy spokeswoman.

Dozens of people lined up outside polling stations that opened at 8 a.m. and 
75 percent of the 5,900 registered voters had cast ballots within four 
hours, the electoral commission said.

Calderon's referendum was called to give islanders the option of asking for 
an immediate stop to the bombing that began six decades ago. A federal 
referendum scheduled for November only allows them to choose between the 
Bush plan and the Navy remaining indefinitely and resuming live bombing.

``From the time I was old enough to know what they were doing to my island I 
wanted them to leave,'' said Candido L. Felix, a carpenter, handyman and 
mechanic born in 1940, the year the Navy came to Vieques and appropriated 
two-thirds of the 18-mile-long island.

Felix blamed the Navy exercises for his poverty, Vieques' undeveloped 
fishing and tourism industries and the resulting split in families whose 
young members go to the mainland to find work.

``We want peace for Vieques and that means the Navy has to go,'' said 
Geraldo Vegerano, a construction worker who has to commute to neighboring 
Culebra island to work.

Decades of simmering resentment over the Navy's presence exploded in anger 
and protests after civilian guard David Sanes was killed in 1999 by two 
off-target bombs on the prized range.

On Sunday, not all of the Sanes' family voted to stop the bombing.

``People are afraid to come out here,'' Maria Sanes, a cousin of the victim, 
told the pro-Navy rally. ``But many of them are going to vote for'' the Navy 
to stay, she said.

The Navy says the Atlantic bombing range, which takes up one-tenth of the 
island on the eastern tip and is 10 miles from the biggest town, provides 
essential training that saves lives in combat.

Efforts to find an alternative have produced proposals for a patchwork of 
different sites for different types of training on the mainland all with one 
big drawback: nobody wants bombs dropping in their backyard.

Two weeks ago the Navy announced a program of compensation that would pay 
fishermen $100 for each day that bombing exercises prevent them working, and 
grants of up to $25,000 to start small businesses.

Many say that's too little, too late.

``If they gave me $100,000, I wouldn't take it,'' Felix said. ``All these 
years they never gave us anything but problems. Now they want to give us 
money? It's like trying to buy us.''

Anti-Navy activists say the bombing has damaged the environment and the 
health of islanders who say they have higher-than-normal cancer and infant 
mortality rates. The Navy denies causing health problems.

Supporters of the bombing warn that an anti-Navy vote could imperil 
relations with Washington and jeopardize $14 billion in annual federal aid.


====================================
Vieques Vota para Botar la Marina

Domingo, 29 de julio de 2001
ViequesLibre.org

Con la participaci�n de 80.5% del electorado, el movimiento anti-marina en 
Vieques gan� el refer�ndum con una mayor�a abrumadora. 68% vot� por la 
opci�n n�mero 2, que exige la �Terminaci�n inmediata y permanente de las 
pr�cticas militares y bombardeos de la Marina en Vieques. La salida de la 
Marina de Vieques  la limpieza y devoluci�n de las tierras viequenses a sus 
ciudadanos.�

Desde tempranas horas de la tarde, cientos de personas comenzaron a 
aglomerarse en la Plaza P�blica para celebrar su victoria. Varios lideres 
comunitarios han expresado que la victoria de hoy ayudar� a legitimar aun 
m�s sus reclamos hist�ricos. Un acto oficial del gobierno municipal de 
Vieques tomar� lugar ma�ana, Lunes 30 de julio, en el cual el alcalde le 
entregar� una carta de desahucio a los militares del Campamento Garc�a 
exigiendo la salida inmediata de la Marina.

Ante los planes de reanudar los bombardeos por parte de la marina (este 
mi�rcoles 1ro de agosto) varios l�deres han anunciado que nuevamente 
incurrir�n en Desobediencia Civil si la Marina opta por obviar la voluntad 
democr�tica de todo un Pueblo.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Triunfa la opci�n a favor del cese de las maniobras de la Marina

domingo, 29 de julio de 2001
El Nuevo D�a


VIEQUES (EFE) � La mayor�a de los residentes de la isla puertorrique�a de 
Vieques desean que la Armada de los Estados Unidos cancele sus ejercicios 
militares y abandone la isla de inmediato, seg�n los resultados definitivos 
de un referendo celebrado este domingo.
La Comisi�n Estatal de Elecciones anunci� que, una vez escrutados los 
resultados de los 22 colegios electorales de la isla, la opci�n "dos", que 
exige el cese inmediato de los entrenamientos y retirada de la milicia 
obtuvo 3,230 votos, lo que equivale al 68 por ciento de los sufragios 
v�lidos emitidos.

Mientras, la opci�n "tres, que pide la continuaci�n indefinida de las 
maniobras militares, obtuvo 1,427 votos, equivalentes al 30 por ciento.

La opci�n "uno", que propone la retirada de la Marina estadounidense de 
Vieques en mayo de 2003, como lo orden� el ex presidente estadounidense Bill 
Clinton y recientemente el presidente George W. Bush, obtuvo s�lo 81 votos, 
que suponen el 1.7 por ciento.

La Armada utiliza la isla como campo de tiro desde hace 60 a�os, pese a la 
oposici�n de la mayor�a de los residentes, quienes responsabilizan a la 
milicia por todo tipo de contaminaci�n, y anormales �ndices de enfermedades 
graves, como el c�ncer, y de mortalidad infantil.

Un total de 4,744 personas votaron en la consulta, de 5.893 electores 
inscritos, lo que equivale a una tasa de participaci�n electoral del 80.6 
por ciento.

Aunque esta consulta no es vinculante legalmente al gobierno de EE.UU., le 
precede a otra aprobada por el Congreso, que se realizar� en noviembre, y 
que obligar�a a la Armada a acatar su resultado, pero que no ofrece entre 
sus opciones una salida inmediata de la milicia de Vieques.

Sin embargo, el futuro de esa consulta de noviembre parece incierto, pues 
tras el resultado adverso para la Armada en este referendo, algunos c�rculos 
pol�ticos en Washington preferir�an no permitir que los civiles decidan 
sobre asuntos militares.

La jornada electoral transcurri� en calma, aunque bajo torrenciales lluvias 
y vientos producidos por una onda tropical, que ha dejado a la isla 
incomunicada por aire y por mar.

El �nico incidente digno de resaltar se registr� a una hora del cierre de 
los colegios electorales, cuando el fuerte viento que sopla en la isla 
provoc� un apag�n en el centro de operaciones electorales, donde se hizo el 
recuento de los votos.

El apag�n dur� tres minutos y hubo que recurrir a un generador el�ctrico, 
mientras brigadas de la Autoridad de Energ�a El�ctrica trabajaron en la 
reparaci�n de la aver�a.

Aunque la jornada electoral transcurri� sin incidentes, un centenar de 
polic�as vigilaron desde primeras horas de la ma�ana diferentes barrios de 
Vieques, tras registrarse varios hechos violentos previos a la jornada 
electoral.

Unos 75 letrados del Colegio de Abogados permanecieron toda la jornada 
electoral como observadores del proceso, as� como tres miembros del Partido 
Dem�crata estadounidense, filial de Puerto Rico.

La Comisi�n Electoral de Elecciones certificar� ma�ana, lunes, los 
resultados finales de este referendo y se los entregar� al secretario de 
Estado, Ferdinand Mercado, quien a su vez se los har� llegar al presidente 
Bush.


Vieques Libre - http://www.viequeslibre.org

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1908
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-30 13:56:50
Subject:[nbpc] Re: curious about something....
Message:

Matt,

I think my feelings about Mr. Baraka and U&S are more in the line of 
principled opposition to their political views, their means of 
advocating them, and their writing style, and have not been 
condescending in any way.  However, to the extent I have posted them 
on this egroup that was a mistake, as my feelings about them are not 
campaign business.  But, I will make up for that mistake by 
addressing these concerns to you privately, and not on this egroup.  

By way of further response to your message no. 1882, I will address 
the issues relating to U&S and Mr. Baraka privately.  With regard to 
my view of what is relevant to New Brunswick, let me just give some 
examples: I think that police brutality and control issues set forth 
on this egroup are relevant inasmuch as it's a key platform point and 
of key concern to a large segment of voters in NB who may vote for 
us, so the more informed we are in that area, the better it is.  
Getting informed on the Vieques issue, which is an area of key 
concern to a large segment of NB voters, is also useful.  But I 
question whether squabbles over personalities in Mr. Baraka's run for 
city council in Newark is helpful or informative.  I also question 
whether the minutiae of the conflict at WBAI are something relevant 
to the daily lives of the NB voters, even though it's concededly 
something of interest to activists.

What is not relevant is debate over decisions and leadership in the 
former NJFO, POP, and/or U&S.  All that does is to expose to public 
view the fact that key people in this organization, which will be 
asking for the votes of people from all walks of life (rich and poor, 
black and white, activist and apathetic), are angry people, engaged 
in petty squabbles over, among other things, fine points of an 
ideology that is alien to many of the 4000+ people who we will need 
to vote for us in order for us to win.

I know that we do not agree on the issue of intellectual property 
rights.  But one thing I do know is that the word "nbpeoplescampaign" 
appears on each and every message posted here.  And I also know that 
the credibility of a group, staying "on-message" and presenting 
voters with messages that are exciting, helpful, and relevant to 
their town, matters in winning votes.  Showing that NBPC is more 
than "Republi-crat" politicians is helpful, but a lot of the stuff 
posted by Joe and Cliff Smith is just off the deep end!  And for 
public view, no less!

Anyhow, I've rambled on for too long.  Bottom line, I think the 
message has to be that when we are wearing our NBPC hat (including 
postings here), we need to ask, will it make New Brunswick voters, 
i.e. those who will be casting ballots on the Democracy ordinance and 
the 2002 mayor and council elections, support our group, in such a 
manner that we can win the 4000+ votes we will need in the 2002 
elections.  That should be the beginning and end of it.  

FLK





--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> 
> That's fine, Flavio- I look foward to your response.  But for the 
record: 1. 
> Nobody besides Joe ever said it should be a campaign newspaper.  2. 
You 
> still have made alot of condecending and unprincipled remarks about 
Amiri 
> Baraka and about U&S on this egroup, so I think it's resonable to 
expect 
> your reasoning here as well.  Otherwise, it doesn't have much 
credibility in 
> my book.
> 
> Matt.
> 
> 
> 
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Groovemeister007@y...
> Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> Subject: [nbpc] Re: curious about something....
> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 04:17:41 -0000
> 
> Matt,
> 
> I'll respond to you in a day or so, but privately and not on this
> egroup.  As I've said, U&S isn't a campaign newspaper and its
> production problems (like my problems with its contents) are not
> campaign business.
> 
> FLK
> 
> 
> --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> 
wrote:
>  > Flavio- I've seen you attack U&S a number of times now.  Of 
course
> one can't
>  > be forced to like or embrace any outlet or point of view...but 
I'm
> curious
>  > as to why you're so veimently down on the newspaper.  If you care
> to respond
>  > -Matt
>  >
>  >
>  > ----Original Message Follows----
>  > From: Groovemeister007@y...
>  > Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
>  > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:08:25 -0000
>  >
>  >  > narrow brain with loud mouth
>  >
>  > Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point is 
an
> ad
>  > hominem attack....
>  >
>  >  > if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more 
prepared or
>  > less to win new brunswick in november?
>  >
>  > Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn
>  > listserve!
>  >
>  >  > U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would 
serve
>  > the peoples' campaign tremendously.
>  >
>  > It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals 
whose
>  > ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't
>  > understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and
>  > unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do you 
sell
>  > to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be surprised, 
and
>  > we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.
>  >
>  >  > old relations and active organizations are something to be
> learned
>  > from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but
> they
>  > have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.
>  >
>  > Please specify which one of these old relations or active
>  > organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to
>  > office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how 
much
>  > can they really teach us?
>  >
>  >
>  >  > again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new 
brunswick
>  > and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective
>  > strategy amongst local activists is put together the better. 
there
> is
>  > no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to argue
> such
>  > only shows your own support for schundler.
>  >
>  > What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information 
(i.e.
>  > the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry L.
>  > Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back Jim
>  > McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support Schundler!
>  >
>  >
>  >  > in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its
> line
>  > of community control with its sell out to republicans, where's 
your
>  > arguements against this happening?
>  >
>  > In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning the
>  > Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor and
> two
>  > council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those who
> will
>  > be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about
>  > struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's 
about
>  > winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
>  >
>  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>  > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
>  >
>  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > _________________________________________________________________
>  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
> 
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> 
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
> nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1909
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-30 16:19:31
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: curious about something....
Message:

we should aim for no less than 8000 votes to win.
4000 votes will lose.
check the last elections - city council re-runners got well over 5000 votes
the school board might slide by, probably not though, and definitely not any 
seats for office.

flavio, what do you mean "the deep end"?

joe smith

>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: curious about something....
>Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 17:56:50 -0000
>
>Matt,
>
>I think my feelings about Mr. Baraka and U&S are more in the line of
>principled opposition to their political views, their means of
>advocating them, and their writing style, and have not been
>condescending in any way.  However, to the extent I have posted them
>on this egroup that was a mistake, as my feelings about them are not
>campaign business.  But, I will make up for that mistake by
>addressing these concerns to you privately, and not on this egroup.
>
>By way of further response to your message no. 1882, I will address
>the issues relating to U&S and Mr. Baraka privately.  With regard to
>my view of what is relevant to New Brunswick, let me just give some
>examples: I think that police brutality and control issues set forth
>on this egroup are relevant inasmuch as it's a key platform point and
>of key concern to a large segment of voters in NB who may vote for
>us, so the more informed we are in that area, the better it is.
>Getting informed on the Vieques issue, which is an area of key
>concern to a large segment of NB voters, is also useful.  But I
>question whether squabbles over personalities in Mr. Baraka's run for
>city council in Newark is helpful or informative.  I also question
>whether the minutiae of the conflict at WBAI are something relevant
>to the daily lives of the NB voters, even though it's concededly
>something of interest to activists.
>
>What is not relevant is debate over decisions and leadership in the
>former NJFO, POP, and/or U&S.  All that does is to expose to public
>view the fact that key people in this organization, which will be
>asking for the votes of people from all walks of life (rich and poor,
>black and white, activist and apathetic), are angry people, engaged
>in petty squabbles over, among other things, fine points of an
>ideology that is alien to many of the 4000+ people who we will need
>to vote for us in order for us to win.
>
>I know that we do not agree on the issue of intellectual property
>rights.  But one thing I do know is that the word "nbpeoplescampaign"
>appears on each and every message posted here.  And I also know that
>the credibility of a group, staying "on-message" and presenting
>voters with messages that are exciting, helpful, and relevant to
>their town, matters in winning votes.  Showing that NBPC is more
>than "Republi-crat" politicians is helpful, but a lot of the stuff
>posted by Joe and Cliff Smith is just off the deep end!  And for
>public view, no less!
>
>Anyhow, I've rambled on for too long.  Bottom line, I think the
>message has to be that when we are wearing our NBPC hat (including
>postings here), we need to ask, will it make New Brunswick voters,
>i.e. those who will be casting ballots on the Democracy ordinance and
>the 2002 mayor and council elections, support our group, in such a
>manner that we can win the 4000+ votes we will need in the 2002
>elections.  That should be the beginning and end of it.
>
>FLK
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> >
> > That's fine, Flavio- I look foward to your response.  But for the
>record: 1.
> > Nobody besides Joe ever said it should be a campaign newspaper.  2.
>You
> > still have made alot of condecending and unprincipled remarks about
>Amiri
> > Baraka and about U&S on this egroup, so I think it's resonable to
>expect
> > your reasoning here as well.  Otherwise, it doesn't have much
>credibility in
> > my book.
> >
> > Matt.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > Subject: [nbpc] Re: curious about something....
> > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 04:17:41 -0000
> >
> > Matt,
> >
> > I'll respond to you in a day or so, but privately and not on this
> > egroup.  As I've said, U&S isn't a campaign newspaper and its
> > production problems (like my problems with its contents) are not
> > campaign business.
> >
> > FLK
> >
> >
> > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
>wrote:
> >  > Flavio- I've seen you attack U&S a number of times now.  Of
>course
> > one can't
> >  > be forced to like or embrace any outlet or point of view...but
>I'm
> > curious
> >  > as to why you're so veimently down on the newspaper.  If you care
> > to respond
> >  > -Matt
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > ----Original Message Follows----
> >  > From: Groovemeister007@y...
> >  > Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >  > To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >  > Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
> >  > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:08:25 -0000
> >  >
> >  >  > narrow brain with loud mouth
> >  >
> >  > Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point is
>an
> > ad
> >  > hominem attack....
> >  >
> >  >  > if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more
>prepared or
> >  > less to win new brunswick in november?
> >  >
> >  > Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn
> >  > listserve!
> >  >
> >  >  > U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would
>serve
> >  > the peoples' campaign tremendously.
> >  >
> >  > It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals
>whose
> >  > ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't
> >  > understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and
> >  > unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do you
>sell
> >  > to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be surprised,
>and
> >  > we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.
> >  >
> >  >  > old relations and active organizations are something to be
> > learned
> >  > from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but
> > they
> >  > have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.
> >  >
> >  > Please specify which one of these old relations or active
> >  > organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to
> >  > office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how
>much
> >  > can they really teach us?
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >  > again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new
>brunswick
> >  > and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective
> >  > strategy amongst local activists is put together the better.
>there
> > is
> >  > no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to argue
> > such
> >  > only shows your own support for schundler.
> >  >
> >  > What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information
>(i.e.
> >  > the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry L.
> >  > Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back Jim
> >  > McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support Schundler!
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >  > in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its
> > line
> >  > of community control with its sell out to republicans, where's
>your
> >  > arguements against this happening?
> >  >
> >  > In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning the
> >  > Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor and
> > two
> >  > council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those who
> > will
> >  > be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about
> >  > struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's
>about
> >  > winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> >  >
> >  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> >  > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> >  >
> >  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > _________________________________________________________________
> >  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1910
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-30 16:38:16
Subject:Smash Schoundler Support Sisterhood & Struggle
Message:

Peoples' War on the Right!
Unite all forces to Bury Bret Schoundler in November! Defend Peoples' 
Democracy with McGreasy-

Register to vote and join with voter registration drives (or start one)
to help efforts in Newark or New Brunswick contact joe smith 
can_bush@... 732.586.5535

                     Schundler risks GOP women over
                     abortion

                     07/30/01

                     BY RON MARSICO
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

Bret Schundler may end up paying a price for his unambiguous
opposition to abortion: the support of moderate women in his own
Republican Party.

The GOP gubernatorial candidate so far has failed to win over key
Republican women who flourished under former Gov. Christie Whitman
and played important roles in raising money and expanding the party.

It is not for lack of trying.

"I've been reaching out to pro-choice women," Schundler said last week.
"I'm saying I believe very much in the rights of the unborn child. I believe 
abortion is wrong. But I also respect the fact that you have a different set 
of beliefs."

He is repeating that message on radio ads, saying that while he does not 
apologize for his faith, the U.S. Supreme Court "has created a legal right 
to abortion" that no governor can change.

Schundler spent hours last week with prominent GOP women who
support abortion rights. But in the end, none of those women -- including 
lobbyists Hazel Gluck, Judith Shaw and Nancy Becker -- were ready to throw 
him their support.

Shaw, who served as Whitman's first chief of staff, said she was "taking a 
wait-and-see position" on Schundler.

"I'm hoping he can moderate some of his views from the primary. It's not 
personal at all. We've worked for Bret before . . . but Republicans haven't 
won (statewide) races without being more to the middle," Shaw said.

Gluck, a member of former Gov. Thomas Kean's Cabinet, said she was
particularly unhappy that Schundler had made John Tomicki, an
outspoken abortion foe, a paid consultant to the Republican State
Committee.

"It speaks volumes, frankly. It says if Bret is elected, it's going to be 
the anti-choice way or no way," Gluck said. "I think it's going to make it 
more difficult for him to reach out to pro-choice women."

Whitman, who now heads the federal Environmental Protection Agency,
appears to have her own doubts.

"I don't know that his positions are compatible with, on some issues, most 
of New Jerseyans," who, she said, "tend to believe in a woman's right to 
choose, at least in the case of rape and incest, which he does not," Whitman 
told The Washington Post last week.

Other GOP abortion rights supporters who have yet to throw their support to 
Schundler include Candace Straight, a major GOP contributor and fund-raiser, 
and state Sens. Martha Bark (R-Burlington) and Diane Allen (R-Camden).

"I did talk to him after the (primary) election and I congratulated him on 
his win," Straight said. But she answered with a "no comment" when asked if 
she would help Schundler in his race against Democratic candidate Jim 
McGreevey, an abortion rights supporter.

For her part, Bark said, "I think 'endorse' may be a strong word at this 
time."

Polls show Schundler in trouble with women in general. The latest
Quinnipiac University Poll, taken in late June, found Schundler had a
favorability rating of just 22 percent among all registered female voters. 
Eighteen percent had mixed views of him, 17 percent had unfavorable 
impressions and 43 percent said they had not heard enough about him.

Overall, the poll had McGreevey leading Schundler 48 percent to 35
percent, with 14 percent undecided. Statewide polls show most state
residents support abortion rights.

But Monika McDermott, associate director of The Star-Ledger/Eagleton
Poll, said: "Traditionally, and I think this applies nationally as well as 
in New Jersey, abortion doesn't tend to be a make-or-break-issue vote. When 
it is -- those people tend to be pro-life."

Much, she said, depends upon how anti-abortion candidates handle the
issue. She said Republican Chuck Haytaian, who narrowly lost a 1994
U.S. Senate race, was not hurt by his opposition to abortion. But, she
noted that former Congressman Jim Courter was crushed in his 1989
gubernatorial bid when he waffled on the issue.

Even so, Ross Baker, a Rutgers University political science professor, said 
he doubts Schundler's efforts to win over GOP women moderates will be 
successful.

"The abortion issue is a very dark cloud that hangs over that
relationship," he said.

But Stephen Salmore, a GOP consultant and pollster, predicted the
abortion issue would be "a wash" this fall.

"I don't think that most women are so pro-choice that that will be their 
only reason for voting," Salmore said.

The danger for Schundler, though, may be that moderate GOP women
like Shaw stay on the sidelines.

"Instead of putting a lot of time in the gubernatorial race, I would try to 
focus on the Senate and Assembly races," said Shaw, while still hopeful of 
finding some common ground with Schundler. "And I think you might find a lot 
of people do that."

Ron Marsico is based in Trenton and covers state politics. He can be
reached at rmarsico@... or (609) 989-0379.


play on players...




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1911
Sender:BENJAMIN RAMOS <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-30 20:29:49
Subject:Free Mumia-New Info.
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is organizing the "Libertad para Mumia" 
Contingent to the August 17th Mumia Demonstration to Philadelphia-JOIN 
OUR CONTINGENT!!

The ProLibertad bus will be leaving from 1199 (310 W43rd St. between 
8th-9th Avenues Martin Luther King Jr. Labor Center) at 7am Friday 
morning. All brothers and sisters interested in joining our contingent 
please contact:

Esperanza Martell at 212-927-9065; The tickets are $5 each one!!  Please 
contact Esperanza Martell as soon as possible for your  ticket.

FREE MUMIA!!
LIBERTAD PARA MUMIA!!
FREE THE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS-FALTAN 6!!







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1912
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-07-30 20:41:54
Subject:[PROLIBERTAD] Peltier Phone Action
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is calling on folks to read this over and 
participate in these actions/strategies to the best of their ability!! Show 
your support for our brother Leonard Peltier!!

FREE LEONARD PELTIER!!
INTERNATIONAL SOLIDAIRTY FOR ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS!!

***************INSTRCUTIONS 
BELOW******************************************************************

>PHONE ACTION
>PRESS FOR HEARINGS ON THE PELTIER CASE
>
>Senator Leahy, Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee:
>202-224-4242
>
>Dear Friends,
>
>We are launching a telephone campaign to urge Senator Leahy, Chair of the
>Senate Judiciary Committee, to hold hearings on the treatment of Pine Ridge
>residents between 1973 and 1976, and on the Peltier case in particular.
>With the FBI's abusive obstruction of Peltier's clemency still fresh in our
>hearts and minds, we have witnessed little if any mention of the Peltier
>case during the last months of controversy and criticism regarding FBI
>misconduct.  Let's step up our efforts and make our voices heard.
>
>Please make at least one call a week and if possible, call on your region's
>designated day.  This will help to ensure that calls are received on a 
>daily
>basis:
>
>northeast: Mondays
>southeast: Tuesdays
>mid-west and International: Wednesdays
>northwest: Thursdays
>southwest: Fridays.
>
>Below are talking points to use as a guide.  If you can do more, now is the
>time.  You can organize phone banks, which cause the amount of calls going
>in to increase exponentially.  You can also call the two Senators of your
>state and urge them to support hearings/declassification (capitol
>switchboard can connect you to your senators: 202-224-3121).  If you want 
>to
>make even more calls, work on the members of the Judiciary Committee - if
>any of the Senators of your state belong to the Judiciary Committee, put a
>special focus on calling them (Senate Judiciary Committee members listed at
>the end of this message).  Keep up the letter drive, and if possible,
>organize a visit with your state's senators offices.  Tips on how to do all
>of these things are listed after the talking points below.
>
>Also, you can plan a local action for Leonard Peltier's birthday on
>September 12.  Use your event as a public platform to call for a full
>examination of the Peltier case and its surrounding circumstances, 
>including
>the release of documents.  If you are interested in having a LPDC speaker
>come to your area for an event, feel free to contact us.
>
>Please continue to forward responses you receive from officials to our
>office so we can gauge our progress.  Also, let us know if you and others
>you collaborate with are making the calls to Leahy so that we can keep 
>track
>of how we are doing.
>
>THANK YOU for your continued support and commitement.
>
>In Solidarity,
>LPDC
>
>TALKING POINTS FOR CALLS TO LEAHY
>
>1.  I am calling in regard to the Judiciary Committee's current examination
>of incidences of FBI misconduct and its efforts to create a means for 
>better
>government oversight.
>
>2.  In particular, I would like to bring your attention to the case of
>Leonard Peltier, the imprisoned Native rights activist who Amnesty
>International calls a "political prisoner" who should be "immediately and
>unconditionally released." Perhaps more than any other, the case of Leonard
>Peltier necessitates urgent congressional intervention.
>
>3.  First, Mr. Peltier's case is rooted in a three-year period of violent
>conflict on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, which began with the 1973
>Wounded Knee takeover and ended in 1976 as tribal chairman, Dick Wilson 
>left
>office.  During that period the FBI cooperated with the tribal chairman and
>together they sought to eliminate American Indian Movement activity and
>presence on the reservation.  Vigilantes hired by the tribal chairman and
>supported by the FBI carried out a campaign of violence against members and
>supporters of AIM.  Over 60 AIM members were murdered, and scores more were
>assaulted.  Nothing was done to stop the violence and the survivors have
>received little if any closure.  That period was well documented by the 
>U.S.
>Civil Rights Commission, but remains largely unrecognized by our 
>government.
>
>5.  Second, it is well documented that Mr. Peltier's conviction resulted
>from the withholding of exculpatory evidence, the coercion of witnesses, 
>and
>the utilization of falsified testimony by the FBI and U.S. Attorneys.  
>Since
>1985 the government has conceded that it cannot prove who shot the agents.
>In 1986 the Eighth Circuit Court ruled that had the FBI not improperly
>withheld evidence, Mr. Peltier might have been acquitted.  Yet, a new trial
>was denied based on a legal technicality.  The FBI withheld over 18,000
>documents from the defense at trial, and continues to withhold over 6,000
>today.  Yet, nothing has been done to correct the improprieties and Mr.
>Peltier has languished over 25 years in prison despite the total lack of
>evidence against him.
>
>6.  Third, the FBI has consistently and aggressively obstructed Mr. 
>Peltier'
>s remaining avenues for redress. As you may know, President Clinton
>announced that he was considering Mr. Peltier for a grant of executive
>clemency late last year.  The FBI responded with an intensive lobby and
>media campaign to prevent a positive decision from occurring.  The
>statements disseminated throughout the FBI's campaign were false,
>intentionally misleading, and absent of highly relevant information.  The
>FBI has utilized similar tactics in blocking Mr. Peltier's release through
>parole, for which he is long overdue.  Clearly the killing of the two 
>agents
>represents a great tragedy, but official vengeance can never be allowed to
>replace the due process of the law.
>
>7.  Given all of this, we want to urge the Judiciary Committee to hold full
>hearings on the treatment of residents on the Pine Ridge Reservation 
>between
>1973 and 1976, and on the Peltier case in particular.  We also want to urge
>the judiciary committee to declassify the 6,000 FBI documents that remain
>concealed.  Amnesty International, Rev. Jesse Jackson, the U.N. High
>Commissioner on Human Rights, the National Congress of American Indians,
>Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Eighth Circuit Court Judge-Gerald Heaney, and the
>Kennedy Memorial Center for Human Rights are only a few who have recognized
>the troubling nature of the Peltier case and have voiced support for
>resolution.
>
>8.  We are encouraged by the Judiciary Committee's commitment to seek 
>better
>oversight of the FBI and to prevent mishaps and abuses from reoccurring.
>Certainly, recent revelations of misconduct give way to the need for 
>reform.
>However, true reform will be difficult to achieve if the situation of
>Leonard Peltier continues without governmental scrutiny and resolution.
>
>9.  Taking an honest and open look at the Peltier case and the era in which
>it is rooted, will help bring closure to a matter that has long served as a
>source of distrust and anguish for so many Native Peoples and non-Native
>citizens.  Perhaps most importantly, airing the truth could lead to the
>prevention of future abuses, and promote a more just and equitable society.
>
>
>
>
>HELP BUILD SUPPORT FOR LEONARD PELTIER IN CONGRESS
>Here are some tips:
>
>1. ORGANIZATION OF PHONE BANKS
>In order to intensify pressure on Congress to support parole,
>investigations, and the declassification of documents, we need to develop a
>sustainable, ongoing campaign on local levels, so that each Representative
>and Senator will feel the pressure from their constituents in concert with
>LPDC lobbying in Washington D.C.
>
>One effective way to do this is by developing localized phone banks.  Phone
>banks are not difficult to organize and they often render positive results.
>During Congressional Outreach Week, initiate a phone bank in your area by
>asking your friends, family, and community members to commit to making
>weekly calls. Choose a designated phone call day that best suits your group
>(a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday is best for reaching Congressional
>staff).  Make sure every participant has a copy of the updated LPDC
>Statement of Fact which can be found on our web site, the "Telephone Calls
>to Congress" instructional sheet, which is enclosed, and the contact
>information for your two Senators and your district's Representative.  Call
>or e-mail everyone in your group weekly to both remind them to make the
>calls and to monitor responses received from your representatives.  Please
>let us know how the calls are going.
>
>If your Senator or Representative indicates that he or she has received the
>FBI's propaganda, forward the "Ethics Complaint" which refutes FBI
>misinformation, to them.  The Ethics Complaint can be found on our web site
>under "case reference materials."
>
>The weekly calls should be directed to your two Senators and to the House
>Representative of your district.  (Telephone calls are less easy to ignore
>and more effective than e-mails to officials.)
>
>2. LETTER DRIVE
>We would like to generate thousands of letters to Congress through an
>ongoing letter drive.  A sample letter to Congress is enclosed. You can
>format three letters, one addressed to each of your two Senators and one to
>your Representative, and make several copies of each for distribution.
>Again, ask your family, friends, and community members to sign their name
>and address to the letters (one letter per person) and collect as many as
>possible to send in all at once.  If some people can take the time to hand
>write and personalize their letters, that's even better.  Please let us 
>know
>about how many you collect and send in so that we can evaluate our 
>progress.
>
>3. VISITS TO DISTRICT OFFICES
>Another effective way to garner support from our Senators and
>Representatives, is to visit them in person in your local district office.
>You may not be able to see your Senators or Representative in person, but
>you will be able to meet with an aid.  An in-person visit from constituents
>shows your Senator or Representative that this issue is of great importance
>to his or her voters or potential voters.  Here are some pointers:
>
>1. Be specific.  Make sure that what you want the official to do is clear.
>2. Be prepared.  Study the LPDC Statement of Fact and the Ethics Complaint
>before you attend the visit so that you will be comfortable if you are 
>asked
>specific questions.
>3. Give the aid a copy of the LPDC Statement of Fact, the Ethics Complaint,
>and support letters from respected organizations and luminaries (these can
>be downloaded from our site).
>4. If you do not know an answer to a question, direct the question to the
>LPDC, or tell your official you will look into it and get back to him or
>her.
>5. Dress neatly.
>6. If you are in contact with local, influential groups and people such as
>Amnesty International, Church leaders, Native leaders, etc., invite them to
>attend the meeting.
>7. Follow  your meeting up by calling the aid you met with to find out the
>status of your request and to reiterate your position.
>
>
>Senate Judiciary Committee Members:
>
>Democrats
>Patrick Leahy, VT     Chairman
>Edward Kennedy, MA
>Joseph Biden, DE
>Herb Kohl, WI
>Dianne Feinstein, CA
>Russell Feingold, WI
>Charles Schumer, NY
>Richard Durbin, IL
>Maria Cantwell, WA
>John Edwards, NC
>
>Republicans
>Orrin Hatch, UT     Ranking Member
>Strom Thurmond, SC
>Chuck Grassley, IA
>Arlen Specter, PA
>Jon Kyl, AZ
>Mike DeWine, OH
>Jeff Sessions, AL
>Sam Brownback, KS
>Mitch McConnell, KY
>
>
>Leonard Peltier Defense Committee
>PO Box 583
>Lawrence, KS 66044
>785-842-5774
>www.freepeltier.org
>To subscribe, send a blank message to  < lpdc-on@... >
>To unsubscribe, send a blank message to < lpdc-off@... >
>To change your email address, send a message to < lpdc-change@...
> > with your old address in the Subject line

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Post ID:1913
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-31 11:33:45
Subject:HE HEE
Message:

I always love this one....pin the tail on the donkey.  If I ate pork
rinds last week, I would fess up to that.  If I stepped on somebody's
pet ants, I might explain that.  if i hurt a small dog by accident, I
would be sad.   if i vote against the double edged SWORD, it's because
I know they can't conduct themselves in a reasonable fashion. if
you're wondering what I'm talking about, refer to joes response to
amiri's criticism of his work on ras's campaign.

Paul

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., jagross66@h... wrote:
> --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>
> When you say, "explain yourself", it seems as though you are
> demanding a confession of sin, of inner fallenness.  A confession is
> not an argument.
>
> I will, however, provide arguments as to why I _would have_ voted
> against your clique's aims.  (I was, unfortunately, unable to attend
> the meeting).  In short, I would not have voted against your clique's
> readmittance to the organization.  I would have voted against so much
> as bringing it up for a vote.
>
> In short, it is my understanding that, on several bases, the vote was
> not legitimate.  It was not really a democratic vote at all.  The
> most obvious objection is that it wasn't even on the agenda; the
> standard practice is that such things are proposed at a meeting
> during the first month, and then placed on the agenda for a vote
> during the following month.
>
> Do you object to the norm of _open participation_ as a central
> element of democracy?  Unless you do, you must agree with me.
>
> The use of agendas and preliminary votes, as described above, exist
> in part so that people may be forewarned as to what is up for a vote
> during the following meeting.  That way, if someone is out of town,
> etc, they can vote by absentee means.  This was formally,
> democratically adopted by the Campaign.  However, certain rules are
> so central to basic democratic norms that they stand whether or not
> they were codified into law.  The fact that they were adopted as
> written rules only bolsters my claims.
>
> Do you also propose that individuals have their 'voting rights' in an
> organization stifled?
>
> I can provide several more arguments, but I'll let this one stand as
> pretty much sufficient.  If you have a counter-argument, present it.
> I don't want to hear 1) childish nicknames like 'Waron Curtis', 2) a
> stream of slogans, 3) watery rhetoric about 'the people' or 'the
> community'.  You are not 'the community' nor 'the people' any more
> than Donald DiFrancesco _is_ 'the people of New Jersey' in one
> person.
>
> PS --
>
> Your organization is just as susceptible to the 'arrogance of power'
> as any other, so stop 'playing victim'.  Actually, since you seem to
> reject the norm(s) of legality, it is more susceptible.
>
> PPS --
>
> These are not 'my arguments'.  These are standard arguments that any
> reasonable person with a basic commitment to liberal democratic norms
> would make.  It is only 'my' presentation of standard arguments.  So
> please address the arguments, and not me.
>
> Yours,
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> > Revolutionaries SI!! Republicans NO!
> >
> > SWORD Reinstated!! by the community- yes vote 9
> >                                      no vote 8
> >
> > flavier, what do you mean when you state that you vote against
> SWORD because
> > you say to me, "you don't support democracy"?
> >
> > load of pond ducks
> >
> > explainations are due- all members who voted against SWORD being in
> the NBPC
> > must explain themselves. next meeting will suffice unless we see
> each other
> > sooner.
> >
> > keith how does SWORD members join nbpcmembers@egroups.com
> >
> > joe smith
> >
> >
> > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
> > >Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:08:25 -0000
> > >
> > > > narrow brain with loud mouth
> > >
> > >Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point is an
> ad
> > >hominem attack....
> > >
> > > > if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more prepared
> or
> > >less to win new brunswick in november?
> > >
> > >Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn
> > >listserve!
> > >
> > > > U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would
> serve
> > >the peoples' campaign tremendously.
> > >
> > >It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals whose
> > >ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't
> > >understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and
> > >unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do you
> sell
> > >to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be surprised, and
> > >we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.
> > >
> > > > old relations and active organizations are something to be
> learned
> > >from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but
> they
> > >have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.
> > >
> > >Please specify which one of these old relations or active
> > >organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to
> > >office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how much
> > >can they really teach us?
> > >
> > >
> > > > again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new
> brunswick
> > >and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective
> > >strategy amongst local activists is put together the better. there
> is
> > >no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to argue
> such
> > >only shows your own support for schundler.
> > >
> > >What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information (i.e.
> > >the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry L.
> > >Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back Jim
> > >McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support Schundler!
> > >
> > >
> > > > in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its
> line
> > >of community control with its sell out to republicans, where's your
> > >arguements against this happening?
> > >
> > >In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning the
> > >Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor and
> two
> > >council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those who
> will
> > >be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about
> > >struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's about
> > >winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1914
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-07-31 20:08:20
Subject:Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:

Joe,

Allow me to reframe the problem slightly in terms of general 
principles.  I tried to incorporate your notion of the 'will of the 
public' into the message ... 

When I spoke of "liberal democratic norms" below, I did not mean 
something like "neoliberal economic values" or "the full set of 
values typically embraced by centrist liberals".  I was merely 
referring certain very, very basic liberal norms.  The following is a 
cursory list, but it covers most of the bases :

1)  An emphasis on procedures that ensure fair and open debate, and 
guarantee room for productive dissent.  (If you look at the piece 
Keith posted up, you'll see that even an 'old-school' Marxist-
Leninist would agree to some extent).

2)  An acceptance of the values of precedent and continuity.  A 
course of action, a vote, a set of rules that were previously adopted 
by democratic means ought to be abandoned only with much reservation 
and extensive deliberation.          
   
3)  The idea that people are to be judged, as far as the organization 
officially cares, by their arguments and their actions, and not by 
their beliefs, worldview, or their self-proclaimed ideology.  The 
flipside of this is that one has a duty not to make one's arguments 
_entirely_ bound to professions of faith in this or that religion or 
ideology.

4)  A limited, critical view of voting.  A vote is a technique that 
can be employed in many different contexts, democratic and 
undemocratic.  #1, 2 and 3 above provide the framework under which a 
democratic vote can exist.  

5)  An effective recognition that the 'will of the public' is 
meaningless outside of certain boundaries.  Those boundaries include 
the actions of an elected leadership, and previous acts of the 'will 
of the public' (see #2).    

An additional note of commentary:

a)  You'll note that these are largely the alleged norms of anything 
that tries to call itself 'democratic' in a liberal sense, including 
a city council in New Jersey.  Precisely because of this, they are 
not only necessary to guide the internal affairs of a reform-minded 
organization.  They also are necessary if one is going to try to 
argue that, for example, an allegedly 'democratically elected' city 
council is truly undemocratic, or that its legislation is 
undemocratic.  

b)  You'll observe that #3 has an implicit function.  It serves to 
attempt to keep people speaking largely the same 'language'.  Not 
everyone can communicate ideas through Biblical references, through 
references to ancient Roman history, through Marxist jargon, through 
the terms of this or that philosopher, and so forth.  But most people 
can in some capacity speak the language of (American) liberal 
politics.  

I can't think of much else to say on the matter.  If you want 
elaboration on a certain point, or care to rationally debate a 
certain point, I will happily respond.  Otherwise, I will presume the 
conversation to be over.  

Yours,

Jeremy





















-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1916
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-01 01:47:19
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

i thought we were discussing the agenda?


>From: jagross66@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
>Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 00:08:20 -0000
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>
>Joe,
>
>Allow me to reframe the problem slightly in terms of general
>principles.  I tried to incorporate your notion of the 'will of the
>public' into the message ...
>
>When I spoke of "liberal democratic norms" below, I did not mean
>something like "neoliberal economic values" or "the full set of
>values typically embraced by centrist liberals".  I was merely
>referring certain very, very basic liberal norms.  The following is a
>cursory list, but it covers most of the bases :
>
>1)  An emphasis on procedures that ensure fair and open debate, and
>guarantee room for productive dissent.  (If you look at the piece
>Keith posted up, you'll see that even an 'old-school' Marxist-
>Leninist would agree to some extent).
>
>2)  An acceptance of the values of precedent and continuity.  A
>course of action, a vote, a set of rules that were previously adopted
>by democratic means ought to be abandoned only with much reservation
>and extensive deliberation.
>
>3)  The idea that people are to be judged, as far as the organization
>officially cares, by their arguments and their actions, and not by
>their beliefs, worldview, or their self-proclaimed ideology.  The
>flipside of this is that one has a duty not to make one's arguments
>_entirely_ bound to professions of faith in this or that religion or
>ideology.
>
>4)  A limited, critical view of voting.  A vote is a technique that
>can be employed in many different contexts, democratic and
>undemocratic.  #1, 2 and 3 above provide the framework under which a
>democratic vote can exist.
>
>5)  An effective recognition that the 'will of the public' is
>meaningless outside of certain boundaries.  Those boundaries include
>the actions of an elected leadership, and previous acts of the 'will
>of the public' (see #2).
>
>An additional note of commentary:
>
>a)  You'll note that these are largely the alleged norms of anything
>that tries to call itself 'democratic' in a liberal sense, including
>a city council in New Jersey.  Precisely because of this, they are
>not only necessary to guide the internal affairs of a reform-minded
>organization.  They also are necessary if one is going to try to
>argue that, for example, an allegedly 'democratically elected' city
>council is truly undemocratic, or that its legislation is
>undemocratic.
>
>b)  You'll observe that #3 has an implicit function.  It serves to
>attempt to keep people speaking largely the same 'language'.  Not
>everyone can communicate ideas through Biblical references, through
>references to ancient Roman history, through Marxist jargon, through
>the terms of this or that philosopher, and so forth.  But most people
>can in some capacity speak the language of (American) liberal
>politics.
>
>I can't think of much else to say on the matter.  If you want
>elaboration on a certain point, or care to rationally debate a
>certain point, I will happily respond.  Otherwise, I will presume the
>conversation to be over.
>
>Yours,
>
>Jeremy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1917
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-01 01:57:31
Subject:Re: [nbpc] HE HEE
Message:

why don't you show up and do work before you jump on bandwagons?

Ras Baraka for Newark City Council  May 2002
saturday 9:45 & sunday 1:45
808 S. tenth street
newark nj

meetings tuesday @7:00 same location



>From: shorepaulie@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] HE HEE
>Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:33:45 -0000
>
>I always love this one....pin the tail on the donkey.  If I ate pork
>rinds last week, I would fess up to that.  If I stepped on somebody's
>pet ants, I might explain that.  if i hurt a small dog by accident, I
>would be sad.   if i vote against the double edged SWORD, it's because
>I know they can't conduct themselves in a reasonable fashion. if
>you're wondering what I'm talking about, refer to joes response to
>amiri's criticism of his work on ras's campaign.
>
>Paul
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., jagross66@h... wrote:
> > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> >
> > When you say, "explain yourself", it seems as though you are
> > demanding a confession of sin, of inner fallenness.  A confession is
> > not an argument.
> >
> > I will, however, provide arguments as to why I _would have_ voted
> > against your clique's aims.  (I was, unfortunately, unable to attend
> > the meeting).  In short, I would not have voted against your clique's
> > readmittance to the organization.  I would have voted against so much
> > as bringing it up for a vote.
> >
> > In short, it is my understanding that, on several bases, the vote was
> > not legitimate.  It was not really a democratic vote at all.  The
> > most obvious objection is that it wasn't even on the agenda; the
> > standard practice is that such things are proposed at a meeting
> > during the first month, and then placed on the agenda for a vote
> > during the following month.
> >
> > Do you object to the norm of _open participation_ as a central
> > element of democracy?  Unless you do, you must agree with me.
> >
> > The use of agendas and preliminary votes, as described above, exist
> > in part so that people may be forewarned as to what is up for a vote
> > during the following meeting.  That way, if someone is out of town,
> > etc, they can vote by absentee means.  This was formally,
> > democratically adopted by the Campaign.  However, certain rules are
> > so central to basic democratic norms that they stand whether or not
> > they were codified into law.  The fact that they were adopted as
> > written rules only bolsters my claims.
> >
> > Do you also propose that individuals have their 'voting rights' in an
> > organization stifled?
> >
> > I can provide several more arguments, but I'll let this one stand as
> > pretty much sufficient.  If you have a counter-argument, present it.
> > I don't want to hear 1) childish nicknames like 'Waron Curtis', 2) a
> > stream of slogans, 3) watery rhetoric about 'the people' or 'the
> > community'.  You are not 'the community' nor 'the people' any more
> > than Donald DiFrancesco _is_ 'the people of New Jersey' in one
> > person.
> >
> > PS --
> >
> > Your organization is just as susceptible to the 'arrogance of power'
> > as any other, so stop 'playing victim'.  Actually, since you seem to
> > reject the norm(s) of legality, it is more susceptible.
> >
> > PPS --
> >
> > These are not 'my arguments'.  These are standard arguments that any
> > reasonable person with a basic commitment to liberal democratic norms
> > would make.  It is only 'my' presentation of standard arguments.  So
> > please address the arguments, and not me.
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> >
> > > Revolutionaries SI!! Republicans NO!
> > >
> > > SWORD Reinstated!! by the community- yes vote 9
> > >                                      no vote 8
> > >
> > > flavier, what do you mean when you state that you vote against
> > SWORD because
> > > you say to me, "you don't support democracy"?
> > >
> > > load of pond ducks
> > >
> > > explainations are due- all members who voted against SWORD being in
> > the NBPC
> > > must explain themselves. next meeting will suffice unless we see
> > each other
> > > sooner.
> > >
> > > keith how does SWORD members join nbpcmembers@egroups.com
> > >
> > > joe smith
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
> > > >Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:08:25 -0000
> > > >
> > > > > narrow brain with loud mouth
> > > >
> > > >Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point is an
> > ad
> > > >hominem attack....
> > > >
> > > > > if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more prepared
> > or
> > > >less to win new brunswick in november?
> > > >
> > > >Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn
> > > >listserve!
> > > >
> > > > > U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would
> > serve
> > > >the peoples' campaign tremendously.
> > > >
> > > >It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals whose
> > > >ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't
> > > >understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and
> > > >unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do you
> > sell
> > > >to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be surprised, and
> > > >we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.
> > > >
> > > > > old relations and active organizations are something to be
> > learned
> > > >from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but
> > they
> > > >have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.
> > > >
> > > >Please specify which one of these old relations or active
> > > >organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to
> > > >office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how much
> > > >can they really teach us?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new
> > brunswick
> > > >and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective
> > > >strategy amongst local activists is put together the better. there
> > is
> > > >no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to argue
> > such
> > > >only shows your own support for schundler.
> > > >
> > > >What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information (i.e.
> > > >the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry L.
> > > >Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back Jim
> > > >McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support Schundler!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its
> > line
> > > >of community control with its sell out to republicans, where's your
> > > >arguements against this happening?
> > > >
> > > >In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning the
> > > >Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor and
> > two
> > > >council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those who
> > will
> > > >be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about
> > > >struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's about
> > > >winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1918
Sender:shorepaulie@...
Post Date/Time:2001-08-01 11:57:09
Subject:Re: [nbpc] HE HEE
Message:

joe, you wrote f___ you and other things to amiri when he called your
work anarchic.  I saw your words and I've seen your work.  i distance
myself from both.  cheers.

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> why don't you show up and do work before you jump on bandwagons?
>
> Ras Baraka for Newark City Council  May 2002
> saturday 9:45 & sunday 1:45
> 808 S. tenth street
> newark nj
>
> meetings tuesday @7:00 same location
>
>
>
> >From: shorepaulie@h...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: [nbpc] HE HEE
> >Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:33:45 -0000
> >
> >I always love this one....pin the tail on the donkey.  If I ate pork
> >rinds last week, I would fess up to that.  If I stepped on somebody's
> >pet ants, I might explain that.  if i hurt a small dog by accident, I
> >would be sad.   if i vote against the double edged SWORD, it's because
> >I know they can't conduct themselves in a reasonable fashion. if
> >you're wondering what I'm talking about, refer to joes response to
> >amiri's criticism of his work on ras's campaign.
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., jagross66@h... wrote:
> > > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > >
> > > When you say, "explain yourself", it seems as though you are
> > > demanding a confession of sin, of inner fallenness.  A confession is
> > > not an argument.
> > >
> > > I will, however, provide arguments as to why I _would have_ voted
> > > against your clique's aims.  (I was, unfortunately, unable to attend
> > > the meeting).  In short, I would not have voted against your
clique's
> > > readmittance to the organization.  I would have voted against so
much
> > > as bringing it up for a vote.
> > >
> > > In short, it is my understanding that, on several bases, the
vote was
> > > not legitimate.  It was not really a democratic vote at all.  The
> > > most obvious objection is that it wasn't even on the agenda; the
> > > standard practice is that such things are proposed at a meeting
> > > during the first month, and then placed on the agenda for a vote
> > > during the following month.
> > >
> > > Do you object to the norm of _open participation_ as a central
> > > element of democracy?  Unless you do, you must agree with me.
> > >
> > > The use of agendas and preliminary votes, as described above, exist
> > > in part so that people may be forewarned as to what is up for a vote
> > > during the following meeting.  That way, if someone is out of town,
> > > etc, they can vote by absentee means.  This was formally,
> > > democratically adopted by the Campaign.  However, certain rules are
> > > so central to basic democratic norms that they stand whether or not
> > > they were codified into law.  The fact that they were adopted as
> > > written rules only bolsters my claims.
> > >
> > > Do you also propose that individuals have their 'voting rights'
in an
> > > organization stifled?
> > >
> > > I can provide several more arguments, but I'll let this one stand as
> > > pretty much sufficient.  If you have a counter-argument, present it.
> > > I don't want to hear 1) childish nicknames like 'Waron Curtis', 2) a
> > > stream of slogans, 3) watery rhetoric about 'the people' or 'the
> > > community'.  You are not 'the community' nor 'the people' any more
> > > than Donald DiFrancesco _is_ 'the people of New Jersey' in one
> > > person.
> > >
> > > PS --
> > >
> > > Your organization is just as susceptible to the 'arrogance of power'
> > > as any other, so stop 'playing victim'.  Actually, since you seem to
> > > reject the norm(s) of legality, it is more susceptible.
> > >
> > > PPS --
> > >
> > > These are not 'my arguments'.  These are standard arguments that any
> > > reasonable person with a basic commitment to liberal democratic
norms
> > > would make.  It is only 'my' presentation of standard arguments.  So
> > > please address the arguments, and not me.
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > >
> > > Jeremy
> > >
> > >
> > > > Revolutionaries SI!! Republicans NO!
> > > >
> > > > SWORD Reinstated!! by the community- yes vote 9
> > > >                                      no vote 8
> > > >
> > > > flavier, what do you mean when you state that you vote against
> > > SWORD because
> > > > you say to me, "you don't support democracy"?
> > > >
> > > > load of pond ducks
> > > >
> > > > explainations are due- all members who voted against SWORD
being in
> > > the NBPC
> > > > must explain themselves. next meeting will suffice unless we see
> > > each other
> > > > sooner.
> > > >
> > > > keith how does SWORD members join nbpcmembers@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > > joe smith
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
> > > > >Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:08:25 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > > > narrow brain with loud mouth
> > > > >
> > > > >Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point
is an
> > > ad
> > > > >hominem attack....
> > > > >
> > > > > > if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more prepared
> > > or
> > > > >less to win new brunswick in november?
> > > > >
> > > > >Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn
> > > > >listserve!
> > > > >
> > > > > > U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would
> > > serve
> > > > >the peoples' campaign tremendously.
> > > > >
> > > > >It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals
whose
> > > > >ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't
> > > > >understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and
> > > > >unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do you
> > > sell
> > > > >to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be
surprised, and
> > > > >we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.
> > > > >
> > > > > > old relations and active organizations are something to be
> > > learned
> > > > >from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but
> > > they
> > > > >have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.
> > > > >
> > > > >Please specify which one of these old relations or active
> > > > >organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to
> > > > >office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how
much
> > > > >can they really teach us?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new
> > > brunswick
> > > > >and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective
> > > > >strategy amongst local activists is put together the better.
there
> > > is
> > > > >no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to argue
> > > such
> > > > >only shows your own support for schundler.
> > > > >
> > > > >What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information
(i.e.
> > > > >the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry L.
> > > > >Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back Jim
> > > > >McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support Schundler!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its
> > > line
> > > > >of community control with its sell out to republicans,
where's your
> > > > >arguements against this happening?
> > > > >
> > > > >In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning the
> > > > >Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor and
> > > two
> > > > >council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those who
> > > will
> > > > >be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about
> > > > >struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's
about
> > > > >winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1919
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-01 15:44:27
Subject:FABW slithers back to town!
Message:

(I found this on Indymedia.org/newjersey section...wonder of 
wonders--there's no mention of the relationship to NBPC organizers, NJFO 
history or even U&S, for that matter! Amazing. But it does appear that "For 
a Better World" & DartherRuthenHensonHungerArtfordKnaveBurg is doing some 
great work in Middlesex county. with friends like these...Comments, 
Questions? ask  X)

Neo-Nazis in Highland Park (full story)

FaBW article on Campaign (pre-release)
by Chris Ruthenberg 3:18am Sat Jul 28 '01
sales@...

FaBW joins Highland Park residents in fight against fascists

Following a string of violent racist attacks in Highland Park, NJ, FaBW 
joined with residents to demand an investigation into local government�s 
complicity with the fascists. FaBW also answered a call for unity in 
opposition to fascism issued by the Highland Park People�s Campaign (HPPC).
The fascist threat became most apparent after an attack by several weapon 
wielding neo-nazis on African-American youth on a main thoroughfare. It was 
remarked that within days, both FaBW and the HPPC, through separate sources, 
knew the identities of the attackers and their hangouts. This points out the 
fact that the individuals were well known as racists. Yet it took the 
Highland Park Police Department over a week to release any identities and 
investigate the matter. What was released was a shocking display of racial 
inequalities, even by US standards.
Two neo-nazis involved in the attack were Lloyd Young Jr. and Walter 
Pawlikowski � son and nephew of Highland Park Dept of Public Works 
Superintendent Lloyd Young Senior. The two were charged with misdemeanors, 
and sentenced to community service � of which the elder Young is overseer. 
Meanwhile, the youths that were the victims of this assault were charged 
with vandalism and allegedly told to stay off the street where the nazis 
live. Furthermore, despite the fact that the attackers were adorned heavily 
with swastika tattoos and were heard to shout death threats and racial 
epithets, the Highland Park PD announced there was no racial basis to the 
attack.
According to former schoolmates of his son, the elder Lloyd was well known 
as a racist himself, and sported a tattoo proclaiming �white power� on his 
inner left forearm (FaBW has recently learned that Mr. Young has followed 
Walter�s example and covered up his tattoo). When FaBW supporters, backed by 
working class youth from nearby Edison NJ, confronted Lloyd Young Jr. and 
some of his friends, he denied any current involvement, but admitted his 
father�s racism and �white power� tattoo. If, as they allege, Lloyd Young 
Jr. and Walter Pawlikowski are no longer involved in fascist activities, we 
would encourage them to step forth and publicly denounce the fascist 
movement.
Most disturbing however, has been the attempted cover up of the whole 
affair. After activists spent weeks interviewing witnesses and compiling 
information, it became apparent that this was part of long-standing problem, 
which was consistently covered up and ignored until it exploded into these 
attacks. Gunshots, swastikas painted on the ground, racial harassment � a 
dossier spanning several years of incidents in and around the Young 
residence has been compiled. In almost every case, town officials quietly 
placated the victims and swept the incident under the bureaucratic rug by 
insuring no report was ever filed. Even so, they couldn�t hide it all. Mr. 
Young�s alleged claim to have had every minority driven off the DPW is quite 
believable, since there are no minority DPW workers. Indeed, many DPW 
workers at the Memorial Day Parade were seen to have Confederate flag 
tattoos (in fact, one incident that didn�t get covered up was the displaying 
of a confederate flag on DPW vehicles).
At a recent city council meeting, HP Mayor Meryl Frank attempted to continue 
the cover-up by dodging any questions on the fascist activity. Instead, she 
sought to distract the masses by attempting to discredit anti-fascist 
residents and activists. To this end she brought up many from the bourgeois 
�anti racist� movement to denounce FaBW and the HPPC. Of particular note, 
was one �Shai� Goldstein from the Anti-Defamation League, who launched 
immediately into a vituperative attack on anti-fascist activists and 
attempted to blatantly control the direction of the meeting. After a 
resident protested, he left.
The Anti-Defamation League is the epitome of bourgeois antiracism. When 
racial tensions break open, they move in and collect donations to further 
their �antiracist cause�. They do nothing on a ground level to confront 
racists, choosing instead to allay middle-class fears by emptying their 
pocketbooks and issuing periodic reports whenever they want more donations. 
Furthermore, they are known to work with the state to prosecute antiracist 
activists (as in recent incidents with Anti-Racist Action). An interesting 
exchange occurred when Mr. Goldstein, speaking to a member of the HPPC, 
exclaimed �I don�t think fighting fascism is on your agenda!� to which an 
FaBW supporter (and former ADL informant) replied �I worked for the ADL, and 
I KNOW fighting fascism isn�t on YOUR agenda!� When questioned later, the 
FaBW supporter noted that after supplying information on fascists, the ADL 
began to question him on various Communists and progressives. The supporter 
went on to say �That�s when I cut ties with them. I later learned that some 
of their operatives in California were arrested for illegally obtaining 
information on, and illegally monitoring many anti-war, progressive, and 
Leftist groups, as well as fascist organizations. They had a whole spy 
apparatus within the police departments reporting back to the ADL.�
FaBW will continue to support the residents of Highland Park in their demand 
for a full inquiry into not only the racist attacks, but into the town�s 
hiring practices as well.
The next public meeting will be on August 2nd at 7pm @ the Highland Park 
Public Library.
Demand a full investigation into and disclosure of fascist activities!
Demand the resignation of Lloyd Young Sr.!
Demand a civilian police control board!




_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1920
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-08-01 17:46:51
Subject:Re: Louis Armstrong Centennial Broadcast
Message:

no coverage in u&s however...

u&s shd run a wbgo program calendar...

cs

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> Check it out: 89.9 WKCR-FM is broadcasting all Satchmo, all day and 
night 
> from now until his actual 100th birthday, August 4, 2001!  
Experience the 
> greatness of jazz at it's deepest root... (& American culture at 
it's 
> greatest!)
> 
> Long live Pops! -Matt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> Satchmo.com's Tribute to Jazz Legend Louis Armstrong
> 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> 
> 
> Props For Pops
> If Louis Armstrong were still alive, he would have been celebrating 
his 
> 100th birthday on July 4, 2000. Louis believed his birth date to be 
July 4, 
> 1900. His baptismal certificate, indicating a birth date of August 
4, 1901 
> was discovered in 1983, 12 years after his death on July 6, 1971.
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1921
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-01 19:44:10
Subject:stop playin
Message:

reply to:


    From: Amirib@...
    To: can_bush@...
    CC: vivaohio@..., jmodibo@..., keithjoseph99@...
    Subject: Re: [njfo] Block on Locke
    Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:50:31 EDT

   (I can criticize myself, as always, for not knowing more, not doing more 
to know. I can make continued Self Criticism for not being Better Organized, 
for U&S often suffering from the liberalism of inconsistent use of time and 
resources &

           But frenzied accusations seeking to justify oneself? disqualify 
others? are another form of Liberalism and trot like splitism. Make 
criticism, certainly,  but make some self criticism, if
possible, and give concrete suggestions as to what should be done.

            If you want to make this an open polemic with those you accuse 
answering, I am not opposed to that, but please first try to Sum It All Up 
and determine the Line of your Principal Criticism, and what you think 
should be done.  Accusations should take the form of Constructive Criticism 
unless  you are making charges of Willful Collusion with Imperialism!
           Also what could you, Joe, Cliff, who? have done,  if anything?,  
to bring all this more quickly to a head. I know, during what I believe is 
the period you are speaking, at no time was any of this brought to my or M's 
attention here, by you or anyone else.
           When I saw C, around that time at RU, just after I was told, he 
was expelled from U&S  (for striking women, was the report). We had an 
exchange about his continuing to distribute U&S, intensified by my 
opposition to his, at the same time, distributing  literature supporting 
McVeigh.  I was told, as well, that C had then taken to "Organizing Skin 
Heads!"

           At any rate, let us bring all this up in summary, and sort it 
out, as to criticism and self criticism, and what is the main errors, who 
the principal responsibilities for these fall and what is to be done. To 
continue  this whining and carping without indication of a constructive Next 
step, is the calisthenics of the crippled.)



>When I saw C, around that time at RU, just after I was told, he was 
> >expelled  from U&S  (for striking >women, was the report). We had an 
> >exchange about his continuing to distribute U&S, intensified by my 
> >opposition to his, at the same time, distributing  literature >supporting 
>McVeigh.  I was told, as well, that C >had then taken to >"Organizing Skin 
>Heads!"

some story.  speak of  "frenzied accusations seeking to justify oneself".

we had no discussion of my distributing U&S.  i was told by keith that i was 
denied u&s for distribution, on yr decision.

at what "same time" was I "distributing literature supporting mcveigh"?  if 
you are referring to the literature i was distributing at the poetry forum, 
while you were all in my grill, close enough to recognize it, you shd know 
that it was u&s.  after i was, like you say, "expelled", with yr admitted 
knowledge.  which position you maintain today.  speak of  "disqualify 
others", "liberal" "trot like splitism".

what "skinheads" i was organizing?  dont cop out now, mouth.  wheres yr 
"reporters"?

what im sposed to bring to "yr attention"? you knew i was put out.  when did 
you seek me for dialectic opposite side of story?  no- only to get loud w/me 
as i push yr paper.  where was(are) yr people to push it?  "what more" i 
cdve done?  lemme find out.  or stop insinuating.

yr "self criticism" ("i shd know more") is a joke.  let us all make self 
criticism for not "knowing more &tc." so that criticism loses all specific 
meaning.  what you  shd explain is how you end up w/no paper & edit board of 
republicans, & united front against working class revolutionaries-which you 
maintain.  explain yr continued (anti-marxist) denial of womens sexual & 
primary oppression.  my abuses of women (no secret, long criticized-by 
sisterhood&struggle!-and self criticized) acted out the same backward denial 
of women's sexual oppression & defense of patriarchal family which u&s 
claims to be revolutionary.  you get no points for bringing this up.

more "frenzied trot accusations":  joe registered more people to vote ras so 
far than everyone put together.  & you come at him w/ 
"anarchist!whitechauvanist!" (speak of "constructive criticism"), 
"whining&carping" that he (correctly) replies "fuckyou".  that this shows 
"no respect" (for slander).  that you got "icepicks".  think we dont? its 
however you want it.

yr paper is not about "uniting revolutionaries".  its a anti-worker 
anti-women pettybourgeois sectarian self-affirming clique (trend!).  
iamswhoiams &the bobbleheads.

you now ask for a 300 word submission.  i submitted an article on the 
peoples campaign 3 issues ago & have yet to see it.  you can print that.  or 
this.


cliff smith. what?



_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1922
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-01 19:46:35
Subject:Re: [njfo] FABW
Message:

True enough, it's a constant struggle not to get overly cynical of certain 
people's intentions, esp. when they have a tendancy to muck up the waters 
then split when things get hot.  But I accept the point.  
Unity-Criticism-Unity...

-Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [njfo] FABW slithers back to town!
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 1980 06:17:01 -0500

He mentioned Highland Park People's Campaign
I think we should be supportive when they do something positive and critical
when its negative
I think that this is overall positive

Matthew Smith wrote:

 > (I found this on Indymedia.org/newjersey section...wonder of
 > wonders--there's no mention of the relationship to NBPC organizers, NJFO
 > history or even U&S, for that matter! Amazing. But it does appear that 
"For
 > a Better World" & DartherRuthenHensonHungerArtfordKnaveBurg is doing some
 > great work in Middlesex county. with friends like these...Comments,
 > Questions? ask  X)
 >
 > Neo-Nazis in Highland Park (full story)
 >
 > FaBW article on Campaign (pre-release)
 > by Chris Ruthenberg 3:18am Sat Jul 28 '01
 > sales@...
 >
 > FaBW joins Highland Park residents in fight against fascists
 >
 > Following a string of violent racist attacks in Highland Park, NJ, FaBW
 > joined with residents to demand an investigation into local government�s
 > complicity with the fascists. FaBW also answered a call for unity in
 > opposition to fascism issued by the Highland Park People�s Campaign 
(HPPC).
 > The fascist threat became most apparent after an attack by several weapon
 > wielding neo-nazis on African-American youth on a main thoroughfare. It 
was
 > remarked that within days, both FaBW and the HPPC, through separate 
sources,
 > knew the identities of the attackers and their hangouts. This points out 
the
 > fact that the individuals were well known as racists. Yet it took the
 > Highland Park Police Department over a week to release any identities and
 > investigate the matter. What was released was a shocking display of 
racial
 > inequalities, even by US standards.
 > Two neo-nazis involved in the attack were Lloyd Young Jr. and Walter
 > Pawlikowski � son and nephew of Highland Park Dept of Public Works
 > Superintendent Lloyd Young Senior. The two were charged with 
misdemeanors,
 > and sentenced to community service � of which the elder Young is 
overseer.
 > Meanwhile, the youths that were the victims of this assault were charged
 > with vandalism and allegedly told to stay off the street where the nazis
 > live. Furthermore, despite the fact that the attackers were adorned 
heavily
 > with swastika tattoos and were heard to shout death threats and racial
 > epithets, the Highland Park PD announced there was no racial basis to the
 > attack.
 > According to former schoolmates of his son, the elder Lloyd was well 
known
 > as a racist himself, and sported a tattoo proclaiming �white power� on 
his
 > inner left forearm (FaBW has recently learned that Mr. Young has followed
 > Walter�s example and covered up his tattoo). When FaBW supporters, backed 
by
 > working class youth from nearby Edison NJ, confronted Lloyd Young Jr. and
 > some of his friends, he denied any current involvement, but admitted his
 > father�s racism and �white power� tattoo. If, as they allege, Lloyd Young
 > Jr. and Walter Pawlikowski are no longer involved in fascist activities, 
we
 > would encourage them to step forth and publicly denounce the fascist
 > movement.
 > Most disturbing however, has been the attempted cover up of the whole
 > affair. After activists spent weeks interviewing witnesses and compiling
 > information, it became apparent that this was part of long-standing 
problem,
 > which was consistently covered up and ignored until it exploded into 
these
 > attacks. Gunshots, swastikas painted on the ground, racial harassment � a
 > dossier spanning several years of incidents in and around the Young
 > residence has been compiled. In almost every case, town officials quietly
 > placated the victims and swept the incident under the bureaucratic rug by
 > insuring no report was ever filed. Even so, they couldn�t hide it all. 
Mr.
 > Young�s alleged claim to have had every minority driven off the DPW is 
quite
 > believable, since there are no minority DPW workers. Indeed, many DPW
 > workers at the Memorial Day Parade were seen to have Confederate flag
 > tattoos (in fact, one incident that didn�t get covered up was the 
displaying
 > of a confederate flag on DPW vehicles).
 > At a recent city council meeting, HP Mayor Meryl Frank attempted to 
continue
 > the cover-up by dodging any questions on the fascist activity. Instead, 
she
 > sought to distract the masses by attempting to discredit anti-fascist
 > residents and activists. To this end she brought up many from the 
bourgeois
 > �anti racist� movement to denounce FaBW and the HPPC. Of particular note,
 > was one �Shai� Goldstein from the Anti-Defamation League, who launched
 > immediately into a vituperative attack on anti-fascist activists and
 > attempted to blatantly control the direction of the meeting. After a
 > resident protested, he left.
 > The Anti-Defamation League is the epitome of bourgeois antiracism. When
 > racial tensions break open, they move in and collect donations to further
 > their �antiracist cause�. They do nothing on a ground level to confront
 > racists, choosing instead to allay middle-class fears by emptying their
 > pocketbooks and issuing periodic reports whenever they want more 
donations.
 > Furthermore, they are known to work with the state to prosecute 
antiracist
 > activists (as in recent incidents with Anti-Racist Action). An 
interesting
 > exchange occurred when Mr. Goldstein, speaking to a member of the HPPC,
 > exclaimed �I don�t think fighting fascism is on your agenda!� to which an
 > FaBW supporter (and former ADL informant) replied �I worked for the ADL, 
and
 > I KNOW fighting fascism isn�t on YOUR agenda!� When questioned later, the
 > FaBW supporter noted that after supplying information on fascists, the 
ADL
 > began to question him on various Communists and progressives. The 
supporter
 > went on to say �That�s when I cut ties with them. I later learned that 
some
 > of their operatives in California were arrested for illegally obtaining
 > information on, and illegally monitoring many anti-war, progressive, and
 > Leftist groups, as well as fascist organizations. They had a whole spy
 > apparatus within the police departments reporting back to the ADL.�
 > FaBW will continue to support the residents of Highland Park in their 
demand
 > for a full inquiry into not only the racist attacks, but into the town�s
 > hiring practices as well.
 > The next public meeting will be on August 2nd at 7pm @ the Highland Park
 > Public Library.
 > Demand a full investigation into and disclosure of fascist activities!
 > Demand the resignation of Lloyd Young Sr.!
 > Demand a civilian police control board!
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >
 > To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@...
 > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: njfo-unsubscribe@...
 >
 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: njfo-unsubscribe@...

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_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1923
Sender:Matt <ml@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-01 22:14:12
Subject:Re: [nbpc] FABW slithers back to town!
Message:

My comment/question is:  how in the world could someone write such drivel?
Do these people actually believe this type of garbage?  The author of this
message makes Xavier look like ...  well, look like someone who I'd almost
take seriously.  Almost.

Um.  Yeah, the Jewish mayor and councilpeople, and especially the ADL --
they are in league with the bourgeoisie/ the FASCISTS.  That's real fucking
smart.  I'm about to go join the kiddies in their righteous fight, all
because a couple of geniuses uncovered a secret fascist plot in which the
government of a town where Jews make up almost half of the population is
nothing short of Fascist.

If Mayor Frank, et. al. were laughing at Xavier, it was because he made a
fool of himself.  It's a good thing I didn't go to any of those silly
meetings because I would have felt pity for poor Xavier, who probably turned
red while individuals (who were made up of both blacks and Jews) waited
anxiously in line in front of the mic so they could lecture Xavier as if he
were a teenager who'd wrecked the family car.  "You owe us an apology, young
man!"

Xavier, you're grounded.

Matt



> (I found this on Indymedia.org/newjersey section...wonder of
> wonders--there's no mention of the relationship to NBPC organizers, NJFO
> history or even U&S, for that matter! Amazing. But it does appear that
"For
> a Better World" & DartherRuthenHensonHungerArtfordKnaveBurg is doing some
> great work in Middlesex county. with friends like these...Comments,
> Questions? ask  X)
>
> Neo-Nazis in Highland Park (full story)
>
> FaBW article on Campaign (pre-release)
> by Chris Ruthenberg 3:18am Sat Jul 28 '01
> sales@...
>








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1924
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-01 23:26:15
Subject:Re: [nbpc] FABW slithers back to town!
Message:

What's so hard to believe about HP concealing it's nazi "problem"?  Did you 
know that the Imperial Israeli Gov't is being run by...fascists?!


----Original Message Follows----
From: Matt <ml@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] FABW slithers back to town!
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 22:14:12 -0400


My comment/question is:  how in the world could someone write such drivel?
Do these people actually believe this type of garbage?  The author of this
message makes Xavier look like ...  well, look like someone who I'd almost
take seriously.  Almost.

Um.  Yeah, the Jewish mayor and councilpeople, and especially the ADL --
they are in league with the bourgeoisie/ the FASCISTS.  That's real fucking
smart.  I'm about to go join the kiddies in their righteous fight, all
because a couple of geniuses uncovered a secret fascist plot in which the
government of a town where Jews make up almost half of the population is
nothing short of Fascist.

If Mayor Frank, et. al. were laughing at Xavier, it was because he made a
fool of himself.  It's a good thing I didn't go to any of those silly
meetings because I would have felt pity for poor Xavier, who probably turned
red while individuals (who were made up of both blacks and Jews) waited
anxiously in line in front of the mic so they could lecture Xavier as if he
were a teenager who'd wrecked the family car.  "You owe us an apology, young
man!"

Xavier, you're grounded.

Matt



 > (I found this on Indymedia.org/newjersey section...wonder of
 > wonders--there's no mention of the relationship to NBPC organizers, NJFO
 > history or even U&S, for that matter! Amazing. But it does appear that
"For
 > a Better World" & DartherRuthenHensonHungerArtfordKnaveBurg is doing some
 > great work in Middlesex county. with friends like these...Comments,
 > Questions? ask  X)
 >
 > Neo-Nazis in Highland Park (full story)
 >
 > FaBW article on Campaign (pre-release)
 > by Chris Ruthenberg 3:18am Sat Jul 28 '01
 > sales@...
 >



To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1925
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-08-02 01:35:29
Subject:[nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

"Manufacturing" consent!?!?!  Now that's nonsense.  How the Campaign 
decides on things is not complicated.  You make a proposal ... in 
writing and in advance is the desirable way, so people can discuss 
and think about it if possible.  You get it on the agenda.  It gets 
discussed in the business meeting and voted on, up, down, or with 
amendments.  Nothing precludes other meetings / discussion circles / 
whatever from being formed to formulate ideas, attack proposals, etc.

As an example: the proposal that the Campaign's focus be electoral 
wins, approved at the June meeting.  It was written up, posted on the 
egroup, discussed at the meeting, and approved.  Anyone who felt that 
the Campaign's goals ought to be something other than electoral wins, 
was free to vote down the proposal.  A majority felt otherwise.  
Nothing manufactured there.

Nor, strictly speaking, was anything "manufactured" by the admittedly 
disappointing vote to readmit SWORD.  (reserving judgment on the 
qualifications of some voters for the time being).  Mass 
participation in our meetings is expressly provided for in our 
procedures.  That SWORD's faction won can be more attributed to 
community members' failure to attend our meetings, not a lack of 
democratic procedure within the Campaign.

Also, FYI, to my knowledge, the People's Campaign Center plan has not 
been repealed.  To the contrary, I think that most people recognize 
that an organization like ours, whose goals are to win two defined 
electoral campaigns, needs a physical headquarters.  Thus, just like 
the opposition to Schundler is a MEANS of accomplishing our GOAL of 
electoral wins, so too is the People's Campaign Center a MEANS of 
accomplishing those GOALS.  That some of the people who were leading 
the People's Campaign Center committee have not followed through on 
their assigned tasks is unfortunate as well but I do not equate that 
with abandonment of the proposal.

One last comment: I do not belittle the need to study theory and 
history.  I would like to hear some theoretical and historical 
analysis of how we clean the machine's clock in 2001 and 2002, not 
the value of Bettleheim.


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> wrote:
> Jeremy,
> One of the reason that I posted the piece you mentioned was that I 
think that the
> campaign has a tendency towards "manufacturing consent" rather than 
participatory
> democracy. Though I wouldn't advocate it for the campaign the ideal 
of democractic
> centralism is that thorough going discussion proceeds decisions and 
are followed by
> unity of action even by dissenters who are not only allowed but 
encouraged to continue
> to raise their dissent in the future. This is ideal for a 
revolutionary organziation
> because it allows unity of action in bloc. But as I said democratic 
centralism is not
> appropriate for the campaign.
> 
> Anyway as to this debate, I don't think that the vote last saturday 
was a perfect
> expression of the public will or even democratic principles, 
however it was a perfect
> expression of the form of democrcay that has come to dominate in 
the People's
> Campaign. If one of the results of that decision is a more serious 
consideration of
> what it means to function democratically I would be very happy.
> 
> I also feel that the whole issue of democracy within the campaign 
is being raised at
> this time because it is the first time that a certain clique has 
lost a vote.
> Unfortunately this discussion was not happening prior to the latest 
decision. I think
> that the principles that you outlined below would be a fine place 
to start.
> 
> As an ideological aside I think that the liberal idea of democracy 
is exactly what
> Chomsky called "manufacturing consent" the idea of a participatory 
democracy is
> outside of the liberal conception. For the liberal the point of 
democracy is to be
> able to pursue private interests (usually involving some 
exploiattion) while what I
> think that what we want from a working class standpoint or radical 
democratic if you
> prefer is mass participation and an enlargement of the public 
sphere and public
> control resting on the assumption that human beings are social 
animals and that
> co-operation is essential to our survival if we want to live 
without exploitation,
> coercion and oppression.
> 
> Since you weren't at the meeting I will add, that I argued to end 
the expulsion of
> sword. I don't agree that what we now need is an interegation of 
why people voted the
> way they did. I understand why people voted the way they did and 
that is their right.
> But to explain my own actions, firstly I opposse on principle the 
policy of expelling
> leftist even if they are ultra-leftist. I think that this was done 
much to flippantly
> in the first place. It is not the practice of Lenin or Mao (not 
that you care in
> particular, but for the record) who worked with Trotsky and the 
gang of four
> respectively even while criticizing them. I won't make a dogma out 
of it but generally
> speaking there should be extraordinary circumstances. I also find 
it odd that we would
> work with republicans and not sword.
> 
> A second reason is that there is a very distinct right trend that 
has emerged in the
> campaign. Part of that trend I already mentioned as far as the 
discussion of
> democrcay, some other aspects are the trading of political work for 
social service (ie
> office space club house whatever), the narrowing of the struggle to 
its the most
> parochial features, the repeated attempts to suppress discussion 
and debate, the
> belittling of theory, the refusal to be self-critical etc.
> 
> In my opinion these are right wing mistakes that need to be 
corrected in order to move
> forward, I think that sword will be allies in that struggle.
> 
> There already exists some kind of code of conduct, if people feel 
the need to expound
> it and include basic things like an end to  profanity and name 
calling in place of
> polemic and discussion, though it seems profoundly childish that we 
need such things
> but I guess practice has proven that we do, I would support that.
> 
> I am opposed to explusions that are motivated by desire for 
personal power or stifling
> dissent or eliminating a political line that someone may not agree 
with but does not
> violate our principles of unity or our platform(a note for the 
slow: the republicans
> oppose our platform).
> 
> While some members of sword have not been the most reasonable 
people and often tended
> to revert to school yard antics like name calling and profainity, I 
think that those
> tendencies can be criticized and eliminated without expelling the 
organization.
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> 
> jagross66@h... wrote:
> 
> > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> 
wrote:
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > Allow me to reframe the problem slightly in terms of general
> > principles.  I tried to incorporate your notion of the 'will of 
the
> > public' into the message ...
> >
> > When I spoke of "liberal democratic norms" below, I did not mean
> > something like "neoliberal economic values" or "the full set of
> > values typically embraced by centrist liberals".  I was merely
> > referring certain very, very basic liberal norms.  The following 
is a
> > cursory list, but it covers most of the bases :
> >
> > 1)  An emphasis on procedures that ensure fair and open debate, 
and
> > guarantee room for productive dissent.  (If you look at the piece
> > Keith posted up, you'll see that even an 'old-school' Marxist-
> > Leninist would agree to some extent).
> >
> > 2)  An acceptance of the values of precedent and continuity.  A
> > course of action, a vote, a set of rules that were previously 
adopted
> > by democratic means ought to be abandoned only with much 
reservation
> > and extensive deliberation.
> >
> > 3)  The idea that people are to be judged, as far as the 
organization
> > officially cares, by their arguments and their actions, and not by
> > their beliefs, worldview, or their self-proclaimed ideology.  The
> > flipside of this is that one has a duty not to make one's 
arguments
> > _entirely_ bound to professions of faith in this or that religion 
or
> > ideology.
> >
> > 4)  A limited, critical view of voting.  A vote is a technique 
that
> > can be employed in many different contexts, democratic and
> > undemocratic.  #1, 2 and 3 above provide the framework under 
which a
> > democratic vote can exist.
> >
> > 5)  An effective recognition that the 'will of the public' is
> > meaningless outside of certain boundaries.  Those boundaries 
include
> > the actions of an elected leadership, and previous acts of 
the 'will
> > of the public' (see #2).
> >
> > An additional note of commentary:
> >
> > a)  You'll note that these are largely the alleged norms of 
anything
> > that tries to call itself 'democratic' in a liberal sense, 
including
> > a city council in New Jersey.  Precisely because of this, they are
> > not only necessary to guide the internal affairs of a reform-
minded
> > organization.  They also are necessary if one is going to try to
> > argue that, for example, an allegedly 'democratically elected' 
city
> > council is truly undemocratic, or that its legislation is
> > undemocratic.
> >
> > b)  You'll observe that #3 has an implicit function.  It serves to
> > attempt to keep people speaking largely the same 'language'.  Not
> > everyone can communicate ideas through Biblical references, 
through
> > references to ancient Roman history, through Marxist jargon, 
through
> > the terms of this or that philosopher, and so forth.  But most 
people
> > can in some capacity speak the language of (American) liberal
> > politics.
> >
> > I can't think of much else to say on the matter.  If you want
> > elaboration on a certain point, or care to rationally debate a
> > certain point, I will happily respond.  Otherwise, I will presume 
the
> > conversation to be over.
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: nbpeoplescampaign-
unsubscribe@e...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1926
Sender:Matt <ml@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-02 00:54:52
Subject:Re: [nbpc] FABW slithers back to town!
Message:

The only thing hard to believe is that people would go to such great lengths
to prove such a thing.

Kids.

Imperial Israeli government.

The poor, innocent Palestinians.  Boo hoo hoo.


> What's so hard to believe about HP concealing it's nazi "problem"?  Did
you
> know that the Imperial Israeli Gov't is being run by...fascists?!
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Matt <ml@...>
> Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [nbpc] FABW slithers back to town!
> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 22:14:12 -0400
>
>
> My comment/question is:  how in the world could someone write such drivel?
> Do these people actually believe this type of garbage?  The author of this
> message makes Xavier look like ...  well, look like someone who I'd almost
> take seriously.  Almost.
>
> Um.  Yeah, the Jewish mayor and councilpeople, and especially the ADL --
> they are in league with the bourgeoisie/ the FASCISTS.  That's real
fucking
> smart.  I'm about to go join the kiddies in their righteous fight, all
> because a couple of geniuses uncovered a secret fascist plot in which the
> government of a town where Jews make up almost half of the population is
> nothing short of Fascist.
>
> If Mayor Frank, et. al. were laughing at Xavier, it was because he made a
> fool of himself.  It's a good thing I didn't go to any of those silly
> meetings because I would have felt pity for poor Xavier, who probably
turned
> red while individuals (who were made up of both blacks and Jews) waited
> anxiously in line in front of the mic so they could lecture Xavier as if
he
> were a teenager who'd wrecked the family car.  "You owe us an apology,
young
> man!"
>
> Xavier, you're grounded.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>  > (I found this on Indymedia.org/newjersey section...wonder of
>  > wonders--there's no mention of the relationship to NBPC organizers,
NJFO
>  > history or even U&S, for that matter! Amazing. But it does appear that
> "For
>  > a Better World" & DartherRuthenHensonHungerArtfordKnaveBurg is doing
some
>  > great work in Middlesex county. with friends like these...Comments,
>  > Questions? ask  X)
>  >
>  > Neo-Nazis in Highland Park (full story)
>  >
>  > FaBW article on Campaign (pre-release)
>  > by Chris Ruthenberg 3:18am Sat Jul 28 '01
>  > sales@...
>  >
>
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1927
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-02 11:34:12
Subject:Re: [nbpc] FABW slithers back to town!
Message:

Does anyone know who this knucklehead is? & why does he have "ML-discussion" 
in his email  (This isn't frenchy, is it? I expected more...)  btw- 8 more 
"poor Palestinians" assasinated yesterday with US gunships, incl'd 2 little 
kids...Sharon might prove to be the end of Israel if this continues to 
Mount...


----Original Message Follows----
From: Matt <ml@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] FABW slithers back to town!
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 00:54:52 -0400


The only thing hard to believe is that people would go to such great lengths
to prove such a thing.

Kids.

Imperial Israeli government.

The poor, innocent Palestinians.  Boo hoo hoo.


 > What's so hard to believe about HP concealing it's nazi "problem"?  Did
you
 > know that the Imperial Israeli Gov't is being run by...fascists?!
 >
 >
 > ----Original Message Follows----
 > From: Matt <ml@...>
 > Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 > To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 > Subject: Re: [nbpc] FABW slithers back to town!
 > Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 22:14:12 -0400
 >
 >
 > My comment/question is:  how in the world could someone write such 
drivel?
 > Do these people actually believe this type of garbage?  The author of 
this
 > message makes Xavier look like ...  well, look like someone who I'd 
almost
 > take seriously.  Almost.
 >
 > Um.  Yeah, the Jewish mayor and councilpeople, and especially the ADL --
 > they are in league with the bourgeoisie/ the FASCISTS.  That's real
fucking
 > smart.  I'm about to go join the kiddies in their righteous fight, all
 > because a couple of geniuses uncovered a secret fascist plot in which the
 > government of a town where Jews make up almost half of the population is
 > nothing short of Fascist.
 >
 > If Mayor Frank, et. al. were laughing at Xavier, it was because he made a
 > fool of himself.  It's a good thing I didn't go to any of those silly
 > meetings because I would have felt pity for poor Xavier, who probably
turned
 > red while individuals (who were made up of both blacks and Jews) waited
 > anxiously in line in front of the mic so they could lecture Xavier as if
he
 > were a teenager who'd wrecked the family car.  "You owe us an apology,
young
 > man!"
 >
 > Xavier, you're grounded.
 >
 > Matt
 >
 >
 >
 >  > (I found this on Indymedia.org/newjersey section...wonder of
 >  > wonders--there's no mention of the relationship to NBPC organizers,
NJFO
 >  > history or even U&S, for that matter! Amazing. But it does appear that
 > "For
 >  > a Better World" & DartherRuthenHensonHungerArtfordKnaveBurg is doing
some
 >  > great work in Middlesex county. with friends like these...Comments,
 >  > Questions? ask  X)
 >  >
 >  > Neo-Nazis in Highland Park (full story)
 >  >
 >  > FaBW article on Campaign (pre-release)
 >  > by Chris Ruthenberg 3:18am Sat Jul 28 '01
 >  > sales@...
 >  >
 >
 >
 >
 > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >
 > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >
 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >
 >
 > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >
 > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >
 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >
 >


To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1928
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-02 12:31:45
Subject:Fwd: Protestors Enter Vieques’ Bombing Range--Entran con éxito al campo de tiro
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "ViequesLibre" <ViequesLibre@...>
Reply-To: ViequesLibre-feedback-708@...
To: List Member <vivaohio@...>
Subject: Protestors Enter Vieques� Bombing Range--Entran con �xito al campo 
de tiro
Date: 2 Aug 2001 16:27:12 -0000

[Bajar para versi�n Espa�ol]

[MST]Socialist Workers Movement
(Movimiento Socialista de Trabajadores)
Phone 787-415-4286


PRESS RELEASE

August 1st, 2001

On Wednesday, August 1st, a brigade organized by the Socialist Workers 
Movement sneaked, once again, into the Vieques� restricted military zone. 
The brigade is working in collaboration with Cayo Yay� Collective and 
Vieques� Horsemen for Peace.

The courageous action of the civil disobedient intends to reaffirm the 
democratic will of the majority of the people of Vieques in this precise 
moment when the US Navy is going to bomb Vieques in an attempt against life, 
health and peace in the island. The referendum certified the overly support 
of the people of Vieques to the immediate cease of the bombing and the 
departure of the US Navy. Civil disobedience is indispensable for stopping 
the abuses of the Navy against the decision of the people of Vieques and of 
all the people of Puerto Rico.

At the moment of writing this press release the members of the brigade are 
in good health and none of them has been arrested. This brigade has the 
objective of preventing and interrupting the maneuvers during all this 
training session. Once they have completed their objective, their intention 
is to get out of the restricted area without being arrested.

Here follows a list of all the members of this brigade:
* Eric Hern�ndez � Boxing Trainer from Vieques
* Rafael Feliciano - Teacher
* Eva Ayala - Teacher
* Yohana de Jes�s - Doctor
* Edgardo Rom�n - Lawyer
* Manuel Baez - Teacher
* Ra�l Camilo Torres - Journalist

Press release prepared by

Luis �ngel Torres
Portavoz
415-4286
Socialist Workers�Movement (MST)
August 1st, 2001

Translated by ViequesLibre.org


=================================================
Movimiento Socialista de Trabajadores (MST)
Tel�fono 415-4286


COMUNICADO DE PRENSA

1 de agosto de 2001

El mi�rcoles 1ro de agosto una brigada organizada por el Movimiento 
Socialista de Trabajadores (MST) volvi� a incursionar dentro del �rea 
restringida en Vieques. La brigada cuenta con la colaboraci�n del Colectivo
del Cayo La Yay� y de los Jinetes de Vieques.

Justo cuando la Marina de Guerra de los Estados Unidos va a bombardear a  
Vieques, atentando contra la vida, la salud y la paz de la isla municipio, 
la valiente acci�n de los desobedientes civiles tiene el objetivo de hacer  
valer la voluntad democr�tica mayoritaria de los viequenses. El refer�ndum 
certific� el apoyo abrumador del pueblo viequense al cese inmediato de los 
bombardeos y a la salida de la Marina. La desobediencia civil es el recurso 
indispensable para detener el abuso de la Marina contra la decisi�n de los 
viequenses y todo Puerto Rico.

Al momento de escribir este comunicado, los miembros de la brigada se 
encuentran bien de salud y ninguno ha sido arrestado. Esta brigada tiene el 
prop�sito de obstaculizar e interrumpir las maniobras. Esta brigada es parte 
de una acci�n dirigida a detener las maniobras durante todo el periodo que 
duren las mismas. La brigada tambi�n busca poder salir del �rea restringida 
sin ser arrestados una vez completen su objetivo.

A continuaci�n el listado completo de los miembros de esta brigada:
* Eric Hern�ndez - Entrenador de boxeo, viequense
* Rafael Feliciano - Maestro
* Eva Ayala - Maestra
* Yohana de Jes�s - M�dico
* Edgardo Rom�n - Abogado
* Manuel Baez - Maestro
* Ra�l Camilo Torres - Periodista

Comunicado preparado por:
Luis �ngel Torres
Portavoz
415-4286

Movimiento Socialista de Trabajadores (MST)
1 de agosto de 2001

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1929
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-02 13:41:09
Subject:Re: [nbpc] HE HEE
Message:

"my work"
Ras Baraka for Newark City Council May 2002
Is that what you see as "my work" that you will distance yourself from?
nobody says you gotta do me
do you

>From: shorepaulie@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] HE HEE
>Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 15:57:09 -0000
>
>joe, you wrote f___ you and other things to amiri when he called your
>work anarchic.  I saw your words and I've seen your work.  i distance
>myself from both.  cheers.
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > why don't you show up and do work before you jump on bandwagons?
> >
> > Ras Baraka for Newark City Council  May 2002
> > saturday 9:45 & sunday 1:45
> > 808 S. tenth street
> > newark nj
> >
> > meetings tuesday @7:00 same location
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: shorepaulie@h...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: [nbpc] HE HEE
> > >Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:33:45 -0000
> > >
> > >I always love this one....pin the tail on the donkey.  If I ate pork
> > >rinds last week, I would fess up to that.  If I stepped on somebody's
> > >pet ants, I might explain that.  if i hurt a small dog by accident, I
> > >would be sad.   if i vote against the double edged SWORD, it's because
> > >I know they can't conduct themselves in a reasonable fashion. if
> > >you're wondering what I'm talking about, refer to joes response to
> > >amiri's criticism of his work on ras's campaign.
> > >
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., jagross66@h... wrote:
> > > > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > When you say, "explain yourself", it seems as though you are
> > > > demanding a confession of sin, of inner fallenness.  A confession is
> > > > not an argument.
> > > >
> > > > I will, however, provide arguments as to why I _would have_ voted
> > > > against your clique's aims.  (I was, unfortunately, unable to attend
> > > > the meeting).  In short, I would not have voted against your
>clique's
> > > > readmittance to the organization.  I would have voted against so
>much
> > > > as bringing it up for a vote.
> > > >
> > > > In short, it is my understanding that, on several bases, the
>vote was
> > > > not legitimate.  It was not really a democratic vote at all.  The
> > > > most obvious objection is that it wasn't even on the agenda; the
> > > > standard practice is that such things are proposed at a meeting
> > > > during the first month, and then placed on the agenda for a vote
> > > > during the following month.
> > > >
> > > > Do you object to the norm of _open participation_ as a central
> > > > element of democracy?  Unless you do, you must agree with me.
> > > >
> > > > The use of agendas and preliminary votes, as described above, exist
> > > > in part so that people may be forewarned as to what is up for a vote
> > > > during the following meeting.  That way, if someone is out of town,
> > > > etc, they can vote by absentee means.  This was formally,
> > > > democratically adopted by the Campaign.  However, certain rules are
> > > > so central to basic democratic norms that they stand whether or not
> > > > they were codified into law.  The fact that they were adopted as
> > > > written rules only bolsters my claims.
> > > >
> > > > Do you also propose that individuals have their 'voting rights'
>in an
> > > > organization stifled?
> > > >
> > > > I can provide several more arguments, but I'll let this one stand as
> > > > pretty much sufficient.  If you have a counter-argument, present it.
> > > > I don't want to hear 1) childish nicknames like 'Waron Curtis', 2) a
> > > > stream of slogans, 3) watery rhetoric about 'the people' or 'the
> > > > community'.  You are not 'the community' nor 'the people' any more
> > > > than Donald DiFrancesco _is_ 'the people of New Jersey' in one
> > > > person.
> > > >
> > > > PS --
> > > >
> > > > Your organization is just as susceptible to the 'arrogance of power'
> > > > as any other, so stop 'playing victim'.  Actually, since you seem to
> > > > reject the norm(s) of legality, it is more susceptible.
> > > >
> > > > PPS --
> > > >
> > > > These are not 'my arguments'.  These are standard arguments that any
> > > > reasonable person with a basic commitment to liberal democratic
>norms
> > > > would make.  It is only 'my' presentation of standard arguments.  So
> > > > please address the arguments, and not me.
> > > >
> > > > Yours,
> > > >
> > > > Jeremy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Revolutionaries SI!! Republicans NO!
> > > > >
> > > > > SWORD Reinstated!! by the community- yes vote 9
> > > > >                                      no vote 8
> > > > >
> > > > > flavier, what do you mean when you state that you vote against
> > > > SWORD because
> > > > > you say to me, "you don't support democracy"?
> > > > >
> > > > > load of pond ducks
> > > > >
> > > > > explainations are due- all members who voted against SWORD
>being in
> > > > the NBPC
> > > > > must explain themselves. next meeting will suffice unless we see
> > > > each other
> > > > > sooner.
> > > > >
> > > > > keith how does SWORD members join nbpcmembers@egroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > > joe smith
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] curious about something....
> > > > > >Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:08:25 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > narrow brain with loud mouth
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Ah, yes... I had forgotten that the best way to make a point
>is an
> > > > ad
> > > > > >hominem attack....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > if we win newark in may 2002 is our organization more prepared
> > > > or
> > > > > >less to win new brunswick in november?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Whose organization?  If you mean SWORD/BOL, get your own damn
> > > > > >listserve!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > U&S is a collective organizer piece of propoganda, it would
> > > > serve
> > > > > >the peoples' campaign tremendously.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >It's a rag.  Most New Brunswick voters, i.e., the individuals
>whose
> > > > > >ballots will determine whether NBPC wins or not, either don't
> > > > > >understand it or are turned off by a lot of the virulent and
> > > > > >unreasoned writing in it.  How many subscriptions to U&S do you
> > > > sell
> > > > > >to New Brunswick voters?  If it were a dozen, I'd be
>surprised, and
> > > > > >we need 4000+ votes to win our 2002 electoral campaign.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > old relations and active organizations are something to be
> > > > learned
> > > > > >from, these discussions are not only necessary and relevant, but
> > > > they
> > > > > >have been being dissed for some time by your expulsion leaders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Please specify which one of these old relations or active
> > > > > >organizations that you referred to has elected a candidate to
> > > > > >office?  When and where would this be?  If they have not, how
>much
> > > > > >can they really teach us?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > again about newark, the greens(fortuncookie) are in new
> > > > brunswick
> > > > > >and will be working to elect schundler - the sooner a collective
> > > > > >strategy amongst local activists is put together the better.
>there
> > > > is
> > > > > >no way that the greens should not be addressed, for you to argue
> > > > such
> > > > > >only shows your own support for schundler.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >What is fortuncookie?  Moreover, according to my information
>(i.e.
> > > > > >the ELEC website), the Greens' candidate for governor is Jerry L.
> > > > > >Coleman of Lawrenceville, not Schundler.  Personally, I back Jim
> > > > > >McGreevey so watch your mouth when you claim I support Schundler!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > in case you missed it the peoples' campaign has sabotaged its
> > > > line
> > > > > >of community control with its sell out to republicans,
>where's your
> > > > > >arguements against this happening?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In case you missed it, the People's Campaign is about winning the
> > > > > >Democracy Ordinance through I&R in 2001 and winning the mayor and
> > > > two
> > > > > >council seats in 2002 with candidates to the liking of those who
> > > > will
> > > > > >be in attendance at our Spring 2002 convention.  It's not about
> > > > > >struggle for its own sake, or about ideological purity.  It's
>about
> > > > > >winning seats in the New Brunswick city government.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1930
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-02 14:22:46
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

flavio says:

"One last comment: I do not belittle the need to study theory and
history.  I would like to hear some theoretical and historical
analysis of how we clean the machine's clock in 2001 and 2002, not
the value of Bettleheim."

abandoned the right, embrace the masses!




>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
>Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 05:35:29 -0000
>
>"Manufacturing" consent!?!?!  Now that's nonsense.  How the Campaign
>decides on things is not complicated.  You make a proposal ... in
>writing and in advance is the desirable way, so people can discuss
>and think about it if possible.  You get it on the agenda.  It gets
>discussed in the business meeting and voted on, up, down, or with
>amendments.  Nothing precludes other meetings / discussion circles /
>whatever from being formed to formulate ideas, attack proposals, etc.
>
>As an example: the proposal that the Campaign's focus be electoral
>wins, approved at the June meeting.  It was written up, posted on the
>egroup, discussed at the meeting, and approved.  Anyone who felt that
>the Campaign's goals ought to be something other than electoral wins,
>was free to vote down the proposal.  A majority felt otherwise.
>Nothing manufactured there.
>
>Nor, strictly speaking, was anything "manufactured" by the admittedly
>disappointing vote to readmit SWORD.  (reserving judgment on the
>qualifications of some voters for the time being).  Mass
>participation in our meetings is expressly provided for in our
>procedures.  That SWORD's faction won can be more attributed to
>community members' failure to attend our meetings, not a lack of
>democratic procedure within the Campaign.
>
>Also, FYI, to my knowledge, the People's Campaign Center plan has not
>been repealed.  To the contrary, I think that most people recognize
>that an organization like ours, whose goals are to win two defined
>electoral campaigns, needs a physical headquarters.  Thus, just like
>the opposition to Schundler is a MEANS of accomplishing our GOAL of
>electoral wins, so too is the People's Campaign Center a MEANS of
>accomplishing those GOALS.  That some of the people who were leading
>the People's Campaign Center committee have not followed through on
>their assigned tasks is unfortunate as well but I do not equate that
>with abandonment of the proposal.
>
>One last comment: I do not belittle the need to study theory and
>history.  I would like to hear some theoretical and historical
>analysis of how we clean the machine's clock in 2001 and 2002, not
>the value of Bettleheim.
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> wrote:
> > Jeremy,
> > One of the reason that I posted the piece you mentioned was that I
>think that the
> > campaign has a tendency towards "manufacturing consent" rather than
>participatory
> > democracy. Though I wouldn't advocate it for the campaign the ideal
>of democractic
> > centralism is that thorough going discussion proceeds decisions and
>are followed by
> > unity of action even by dissenters who are not only allowed but
>encouraged to continue
> > to raise their dissent in the future. This is ideal for a
>revolutionary organziation
> > because it allows unity of action in bloc. But as I said democratic
>centralism is not
> > appropriate for the campaign.
> >
> > Anyway as to this debate, I don't think that the vote last saturday
>was a perfect
> > expression of the public will or even democratic principles,
>however it was a perfect
> > expression of the form of democrcay that has come to dominate in
>the People's
> > Campaign. If one of the results of that decision is a more serious
>consideration of
> > what it means to function democratically I would be very happy.
> >
> > I also feel that the whole issue of democracy within the campaign
>is being raised at
> > this time because it is the first time that a certain clique has
>lost a vote.
> > Unfortunately this discussion was not happening prior to the latest
>decision. I think
> > that the principles that you outlined below would be a fine place
>to start.
> >
> > As an ideological aside I think that the liberal idea of democracy
>is exactly what
> > Chomsky called "manufacturing consent" the idea of a participatory
>democracy is
> > outside of the liberal conception. For the liberal the point of
>democracy is to be
> > able to pursue private interests (usually involving some
>exploiattion) while what I
> > think that what we want from a working class standpoint or radical
>democratic if you
> > prefer is mass participation and an enlargement of the public
>sphere and public
> > control resting on the assumption that human beings are social
>animals and that
> > co-operation is essential to our survival if we want to live
>without exploitation,
> > coercion and oppression.
> >
> > Since you weren't at the meeting I will add, that I argued to end
>the expulsion of
> > sword. I don't agree that what we now need is an interegation of
>why people voted the
> > way they did. I understand why people voted the way they did and
>that is their right.
> > But to explain my own actions, firstly I opposse on principle the
>policy of expelling
> > leftist even if they are ultra-leftist. I think that this was done
>much to flippantly
> > in the first place. It is not the practice of Lenin or Mao (not
>that you care in
> > particular, but for the record) who worked with Trotsky and the
>gang of four
> > respectively even while criticizing them. I won't make a dogma out
>of it but generally
> > speaking there should be extraordinary circumstances. I also find
>it odd that we would
> > work with republicans and not sword.
> >
> > A second reason is that there is a very distinct right trend that
>has emerged in the
> > campaign. Part of that trend I already mentioned as far as the
>discussion of
> > democrcay, some other aspects are the trading of political work for
>social service (ie
> > office space club house whatever), the narrowing of the struggle to
>its the most
> > parochial features, the repeated attempts to suppress discussion
>and debate, the
> > belittling of theory, the refusal to be self-critical etc.
> >
> > In my opinion these are right wing mistakes that need to be
>corrected in order to move
> > forward, I think that sword will be allies in that struggle.
> >
> > There already exists some kind of code of conduct, if people feel
>the need to expound
> > it and include basic things like an end to  profanity and name
>calling in place of
> > polemic and discussion, though it seems profoundly childish that we
>need such things
> > but I guess practice has proven that we do, I would support that.
> >
> > I am opposed to explusions that are motivated by desire for
>personal power or stifling
> > dissent or eliminating a political line that someone may not agree
>with but does not
> > violate our principles of unity or our platform(a note for the
>slow: the republicans
> > oppose our platform).
> >
> > While some members of sword have not been the most reasonable
>people and often tended
> > to revert to school yard antics like name calling and profainity, I
>think that those
> > tendencies can be criticized and eliminated without expelling the
>organization.
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> >
> > jagross66@h... wrote:
> >
> > > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
>wrote:
> > >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > Allow me to reframe the problem slightly in terms of general
> > > principles.  I tried to incorporate your notion of the 'will of
>the
> > > public' into the message ...
> > >
> > > When I spoke of "liberal democratic norms" below, I did not mean
> > > something like "neoliberal economic values" or "the full set of
> > > values typically embraced by centrist liberals".  I was merely
> > > referring certain very, very basic liberal norms.  The following
>is a
> > > cursory list, but it covers most of the bases :
> > >
> > > 1)  An emphasis on procedures that ensure fair and open debate,
>and
> > > guarantee room for productive dissent.  (If you look at the piece
> > > Keith posted up, you'll see that even an 'old-school' Marxist-
> > > Leninist would agree to some extent).
> > >
> > > 2)  An acceptance of the values of precedent and continuity.  A
> > > course of action, a vote, a set of rules that were previously
>adopted
> > > by democratic means ought to be abandoned only with much
>reservation
> > > and extensive deliberation.
> > >
> > > 3)  The idea that people are to be judged, as far as the
>organization
> > > officially cares, by their arguments and their actions, and not by
> > > their beliefs, worldview, or their self-proclaimed ideology.  The
> > > flipside of this is that one has a duty not to make one's
>arguments
> > > _entirely_ bound to professions of faith in this or that religion
>or
> > > ideology.
> > >
> > > 4)  A limited, critical view of voting.  A vote is a technique
>that
> > > can be employed in many different contexts, democratic and
> > > undemocratic.  #1, 2 and 3 above provide the framework under
>which a
> > > democratic vote can exist.
> > >
> > > 5)  An effective recognition that the 'will of the public' is
> > > meaningless outside of certain boundaries.  Those boundaries
>include
> > > the actions of an elected leadership, and previous acts of
>the 'will
> > > of the public' (see #2).
> > >
> > > An additional note of commentary:
> > >
> > > a)  You'll note that these are largely the alleged norms of
>anything
> > > that tries to call itself 'democratic' in a liberal sense,
>including
> > > a city council in New Jersey.  Precisely because of this, they are
> > > not only necessary to guide the internal affairs of a reform-
>minded
> > > organization.  They also are necessary if one is going to try to
> > > argue that, for example, an allegedly 'democratically elected'
>city
> > > council is truly undemocratic, or that its legislation is
> > > undemocratic.
> > >
> > > b)  You'll observe that #3 has an implicit function.  It serves to
> > > attempt to keep people speaking largely the same 'language'.  Not
> > > everyone can communicate ideas through Biblical references,
>through
> > > references to ancient Roman history, through Marxist jargon,
>through
> > > the terms of this or that philosopher, and so forth.  But most
>people
> > > can in some capacity speak the language of (American) liberal
> > > politics.
> > >
> > > I can't think of much else to say on the matter.  If you want
> > > elaboration on a certain point, or care to rationally debate a
> > > certain point, I will happily respond.  Otherwise, I will presume
>the
> > > conversation to be over.
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > >
> > > Jeremy
> > >
> > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: nbpeoplescampaign-
>unsubscribe@e...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1931
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-02 15:28:13
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] 2nd Try
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Khabirah Myers" <khabirah@...>
Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [poprogress] 2nd Try
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:19:43 -0700

Okay family,

here's the message about Zimbabwean President Mugabe that I had been trying 
to send before.  Maybe a POP contingent can make it up to this organizing 
meeting?

- Khabirah

ZIMBABWE PRESIDENT ROBERT MUGABE IS COMING TO HARLEM NEW YORK!
  ORGANIZING MEETING - FRIDAY, AUGUST 3, 2001 AT 7PM

  Dear Friends,

  It is with great pleasure that we announce the upcoming visit of
  the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Robert Gabriel Mugabe to 
Harlem, New York.

  President Mugabe will be in New York during the month of September
  2001 to attend the United Nations General Assembly meeting of the
  Heads of State.  During his official visit he will return to Harlem
  to address our community and update us first hand on the current situation 
in Zimbabwe.

  Please join the ORGANIZING MEETING for President Mugabe's Return
  to Harlem on Friday, August 3, 2001 at 7pm at the Mount Olivet Baptist
  Church, 120th Street and Malcolm X Blvd, Harlem, NY.

  You may recall on September 7, 2000 while in New York for the Millennium
  Summit of the United Nations General Assembly, the Pan African community
  hosted President Mugabe at the Mount Olivet Baptist Church in Harlem.
   Over 4,000 people rallied in support of President Mugabe and the
  Zimbabwean people at that historic event.

  President Mugabe, the Zimbabwe African Nation Union - Patriotic
  Front(ZANU-PF), and the people of Zimbabwe are in the midst of 
fundamentally
  changing the political and economic paradigm on the continent of
  Africa.  Under the slogan of "Land To The Tillers!" they
  have courageously embarked upon a land redistribution effort to
  turn over Zimbabwe's vast farmlands to the millions of poor landless 
indigenous people.

  Heretofore, the land and the agriculturally based economy of Zimbabwe
  has been controlled by a handful of descendants of colonialist settler
  Cecil Rhodes and his British partners who forcibly stole the land
  from the people of Zimbabwe, formerly known as Rhodesia.  President
  Mugabe, a veteran of the liberation struggle for independence, has
  led the fight to complete the process of liberation through economic
  independence.  Land is the basis of independence and control of
  the natural resources, the means of production, must be in the hands of 
the indigenous people.

  Please join us as we honor and celebrate the Zimbabwean people and
  their fearless unrelenting struggle to FREE THE LAND and set an
  example for the continent of Africa and the Diaspora.

  Sincerely,

  Amadi Ajamu
  Manhattan Coordinator
  Friends of Zimbabwe
  (917) 495-6979
  Email: amadi4@...
  PLEASE CALL OR EMAIL IMMEDIATELY
  TO CONFIRM YOUR ATTENDANCE.





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Post ID:1932
Sender:Matt <ml@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-02 18:59:56
Subject:Re: [nbpc] FABW slithers back to town!
Message:

Yeah, I'm the Matt you're thinking of.

Palestinians snipe and blow up Israeli kids, as well, for one thing -- but
settlers, even if I agree with you that they should be removed with force,
are people too, and have kids just the same.

Sharon is scum, and the Israeli government is guilty of using excessive
force.  I'm not arguing for 'Israeli solidarity' or some such nonsense;
it's just that whenever I see immature 'agitprop', there is a small chance,
depending on my mood, that it will elicit a reaction that might provoke me
to respond.  I hate this one-sided crap, and I especially hate it when there
are activists (some of whom. I happen to know, are not stupid at all), who
write drivel trying to rouse people's anger rather than use reason and
argument.  Give me a break with your fascism.  One-sidedness gets on my
nerves more than the technical facts or specific opinions you hold.

All your messages and propaganda appeal to the lowest, most angry, most
primitive emotive aspects of humans -- "EVIL IS ON THE LOOSE -- DESTROY KILL
DESTROY!"  I mean, surely you do not see a little bit of SWORD (which you
criticize) in some of these 'agitprop' pieces?

Matt



> Does anyone know who this knucklehead is? & why does he have
"ML-discussion"
> in his email  (This isn't frenchy, is it? I expected more...)  btw- 8 more
> "poor Palestinians" assasinated yesterday with US gunships, incl'd 2
little
> kids...Sharon might prove to be the end of Israel if this continues to
> Mount...
>
>
>
> The only thing hard to believe is that people would go to such great
lengths
> to prove such a thing.
>
> Kids.
>
> Imperial Israeli government.
>
> The poor, innocent Palestinians.  Boo hoo hoo.
>
>
>  > What's so hard to believe about HP concealing it's nazi "problem"?  Did
> you
>  > know that the Imperial Israeli Gov't is being run by...fascists?!
>  >
>  >
>  > ----Original Message Follows----
>  > From: Matt <ml@...>
>  > Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  > To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  > Subject: Re: [nbpc] FABW slithers back to town!
>  > Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 22:14:12 -0400
>  >
>  >
>  > My comment/question is:  how in the world could someone write such
> drivel?
>  > Do these people actually believe this type of garbage?  The author of
> this
>  > message makes Xavier look like ...  well, look like someone who I'd
> almost
>  > take seriously.  Almost.
>  >
>  > Um.  Yeah, the Jewish mayor and councilpeople, and especially the
ADL --
>  > they are in league with the bourgeoisie/ the FASCISTS.  That's real
> fucking
>  > smart.  I'm about to go join the kiddies in their righteous fight, all
>  > because a couple of geniuses uncovered a secret fascist plot in which
the
>  > government of a town where Jews make up almost half of the population
is
>  > nothing short of Fascist.
>  >
>  > If Mayor Frank, et. al. were laughing at Xavier, it was because he made
a
>  > fool of himself.  It's a good thing I didn't go to any of those silly
>  > meetings because I would have felt pity for poor Xavier, who probably
> turned
>  > red while individuals (who were made up of both blacks and Jews) waited
>  > anxiously in line in front of the mic so they could lecture Xavier as
if
> he
>  > were a teenager who'd wrecked the family car.  "You owe us an apology,
> young
>  > man!"
>  >
>  > Xavier, you're grounded.
>  >
>  > Matt
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >  > (I found this on Indymedia.org/newjersey section...wonder of
>  >  > wonders--there's no mention of the relationship to NBPC organizers,
> NJFO
>  >  > history or even U&S, for that matter! Amazing. But it does appear
that
>  > "For
>  >  > a Better World" & DartherRuthenHensonHungerArtfordKnaveBurg is doing
> some
>  >  > great work in Middlesex county. with friends like these...Comments,
>  >  > Questions? ask  X)
>  >  >
>  >  > Neo-Nazis in Highland Park (full story)
>  >  >
>  >  > FaBW article on Campaign (pre-release)
>  >  > by Chris Ruthenberg 3:18am Sat Jul 28 '01
>  >  > sales@...
>  >  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>  >
>  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>  > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>  >
>  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > _________________________________________________________________
>  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
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>  >
>  >
>  > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>  >
>  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>  >
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>  >
>  >
>  >
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1935
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-02 23:12:56
Subject:Re: [nbpc] next camapign meeting
Message:

Keith- this is an excellent formulation.
It might should mention generally the callusion of the two party system in 
the overall maintainance of imperialism, and in particular the relationship 
of Republicanism to jingoism and the most reactionary, chauvinist, backward 
representatives of internaional finance capital. (ie- we operate in 
fundamental and complete opposition to fascism in all forms, etc...)
-Matthew


----Original Message Follows----
From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: "nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com" <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>, 
"njfo@egroups.com" <njfo@egroups.com>
Subject: [nbpc] next camapign meeting
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 1980 11:32:14 -0500

We should work out a statement of purpose that goes something like this:

Opposse republicans everywhere. Opposse democrats independently where we
can win and support them where republicans are a threat. Work to end the
two party system and replace it with a multi-party system.

This should be fleshed out but it can work as a basis.

Keith




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1936
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-03 00:03:36
Subject:Frenchy
Message:

(Frenchy wrote:)

Yeah, I'm the Matt you're thinking of.

Palestinians snipe and blow up Israeli kids, as well, for one thing -- but
settlers, even if I agree with you that they should be removed with force,
are people too, and have kids just the same.

Sharon is scum, and the Israeli government is guilty of using excessive
force.  I'm not arguing for 'Israeli solidarity' or some such nonsense;
it's just that whenever I see immature 'agitprop', there is a small chance,
depending on my mood, that it will elicit a reaction that might provoke me
to respond.  I hate this one-sided crap, and I especially hate it when there
are activists (some of whom. I happen to know, are not stupid at all), who
write drivel trying to rouse people's anger rather than use reason and
argument.  Give me a break with your fascism.  One-sidedness gets on my
nerves more than the technical facts or specific opinions you hold.

______________________________________________________

(My response is this: I think sometimes we "hate" most what we see in 
ourselves.  I support the struggle for Palestinian liberation against a 
vicious imperialistic occupation of their homeland.  I feel for the Israeli 
kids.  Beyond that, if your posts indicated any incling of an interest in 
sorting out the infinite minutia of the historic and complex contradictions 
in the region, I would engage you.  Otherwise- I embrace the aspect of SWORD 
that rails against imperialism and it's "excessive use of force".  -Matthew)




All your messages and propaganda appeal to the lowest, most angry, most
primitive emotive aspects of humans -- "EVIL IS ON THE LOOSE -- DESTROY KILL
DESTROY!"  I mean, surely you do not see a little bit of SWORD (which you
criticize) in some of these 'agitprop' pieces?

Matt



 > Does anyone know who this knucklehead is? & why does he have
"ML-discussion"
 > in his email  (This isn't frenchy, is it? I expected more...)  btw- 8 
more
 > "poor Palestinians" assasinated yesterday with US gunships, incl'd 2
little
 > kids...Sharon might prove to be the end of Israel if this continues to
 > Mount...
 >
 >
 >
 > The only thing hard to believe is that people would go to such great
lengths
 > to prove such a thing.
 >
 > Kids.
 >
 > Imperial Israeli government.
 >
 > The poor, innocent Palestinians.  Boo hoo hoo.
 >
 >
 >  > What's so hard to believe about HP concealing it's nazi "problem"?  
Did
 > you
 >  > know that the Imperial Israeli Gov't is being run by...fascists?!
 >  >
 >  >
 >  > ----Original Message Follows----
 >  > From: Matt <ml@...>
 >  > Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  > To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  > Subject: Re: [nbpc] FABW slithers back to town!
 >  > Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 22:14:12 -0400
 >  >
 >  >
 >  > My comment/question is:  how in the world could someone write such
 > drivel?
 >  > Do these people actually believe this type of garbage?  The author of
 > this
 >  > message makes Xavier look like ...  well, look like someone who I'd
 > almost
 >  > take seriously.  Almost.
 >  >
 >  > Um.  Yeah, the Jewish mayor and councilpeople, and especially the
ADL --
 >  > they are in league with the bourgeoisie/ the FASCISTS.  That's real
 > fucking
 >  > smart.  I'm about to go join the kiddies in their righteous fight, all
 >  > because a couple of geniuses uncovered a secret fascist plot in which
the
 >  > government of a town where Jews make up almost half of the population
is
 >  > nothing short of Fascist.
 >  >
 >  > If Mayor Frank, et. al. were laughing at Xavier, it was because he 
made
a
 >  > fool of himself.  It's a good thing I didn't go to any of those silly
 >  > meetings because I would have felt pity for poor Xavier, who probably
 > turned
 >  > red while individuals (who were made up of both blacks and Jews) 
waited
 >  > anxiously in line in front of the mic so they could lecture Xavier as
if
 > he
 >  > were a teenager who'd wrecked the family car.  "You owe us an apology,
 > young
 >  > man!"
 >  >
 >  > Xavier, you're grounded.
 >  >
 >  > Matt
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >  > (I found this on Indymedia.org/newjersey section...wonder of
 >  >  > wonders--there's no mention of the relationship to NBPC organizers,
 > NJFO
 >  >  > history or even U&S, for that matter! Amazing. But it does appear
that
 >  > "For
 >  >  > a Better World" & DartherRuthenHensonHungerArtfordKnaveBurg is 
doing
 > some
 >  >  > great work in Middlesex county. with friends like these...Comments,
 >  >  > Questions? ask  X)
 >  >  >
 >  >  > Neo-Nazis in Highland Park (full story)
 >  >  >
 >  >  > FaBW article on Campaign (pre-release)
 >  >  > by Chris Ruthenberg 3:18am Sat Jul 28 '01
 >  >  > sales@...
 >  >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >  >
 >  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 >  > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >  >
 >  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  > _________________________________________________________________
 >  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >  >
 >  >
 >  > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >  >
 >  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >  >
 >  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >
 >
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 >
 > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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 >
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 >
 >
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 >
 >
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 >
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 >
 >
 >


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1937
Sender:"Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-03 08:52:11
Subject:RE: [nbpc] Frenchy
Message:

Matt, does this mean that what you see in yourself is fascism and
imperialism?

______________________________________________________

(My response is this: I think sometimes we "hate" most what we see in
ourselves.  I support the struggle for Palestinian liberation against a
vicious imperialistic occupation of their homeland.  I feel for the Israeli
kids.  Beyond that, if your posts indicated any incling of an interest in
sorting out the infinite minutia of the historic and complex contradictions
in the region, I would engage you.  Otherwise- I embrace the aspect of SWORD
that rails against imperialism and it's "excessive use of force".  -Matthew)




All your messages and propaganda appeal to the lowest, most angry, most
primitive emotive aspects of humans -- "EVIL IS ON THE LOOSE -- DESTROY KILL
DESTROY!"  I mean, surely you do not see a little bit of SWORD (which you
criticize) in some of these 'agitprop' pieces?

Matt



 > Does anyone know who this knucklehead is? & why does he have
"ML-discussion"
 > in his email  (This isn't frenchy, is it? I expected more...)  btw- 8
more
 > "poor Palestinians" assasinated yesterday with US gunships, incl'd 2
little
 > kids...Sharon might prove to be the end of Israel if this continues to
 > Mount...
 >
 >
 >
 > The only thing hard to believe is that people would go to such great
lengths
 > to prove such a thing.
 >
 > Kids.
 >
 > Imperial Israeli government.
 >
 > The poor, innocent Palestinians.  Boo hoo hoo.
 >
 >
 >  > What's so hard to believe about HP concealing it's nazi "problem"?
Did
 > you
 >  > know that the Imperial Israeli Gov't is being run by...fascists?!
 >  >
 >  >
 >  > ----Original Message Follows----
 >  > From: Matt <ml@...>
 >  > Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  > To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  > Subject: Re: [nbpc] FABW slithers back to town!
 >  > Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 22:14:12 -0400
 >  >
 >  >
 >  > My comment/question is:  how in the world could someone write such
 > drivel?
 >  > Do these people actually believe this type of garbage?  The author of
 > this
 >  > message makes Xavier look like ...  well, look like someone who I'd
 > almost
 >  > take seriously.  Almost.
 >  >
 >  > Um.  Yeah, the Jewish mayor and councilpeople, and especially the
ADL --
 >  > they are in league with the bourgeoisie/ the FASCISTS.  That's real
 > fucking
 >  > smart.  I'm about to go join the kiddies in their righteous fight, all
 >  > because a couple of geniuses uncovered a secret fascist plot in which
the
 >  > government of a town where Jews make up almost half of the population
is
 >  > nothing short of Fascist.
 >  >
 >  > If Mayor Frank, et. al. were laughing at Xavier, it was because he
made
a
 >  > fool of himself.  It's a good thing I didn't go to any of those silly
 >  > meetings because I would have felt pity for poor Xavier, who probably
 > turned
 >  > red while individuals (who were made up of both blacks and Jews)
waited
 >  > anxiously in line in front of the mic so they could lecture Xavier as
if
 > he
 >  > were a teenager who'd wrecked the family car.  "You owe us an apology,
 > young
 >  > man!"
 >  >
 >  > Xavier, you're grounded.
 >  >
 >  > Matt
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >  > (I found this on Indymedia.org/newjersey section...wonder of
 >  >  > wonders--there's no mention of the relationship to NBPC organizers,
 > NJFO
 >  >  > history or even U&S, for that matter! Amazing. But it does appear
that
 >  > "For
 >  >  > a Better World" & DartherRuthenHensonHungerArtfordKnaveBurg is
doing
 > some
 >  >  > great work in Middlesex county. with friends like these...Comments,
 >  >  > Questions? ask  X)
 >  >  >
 >  >  > Neo-Nazis in Highland Park (full story)
 >  >  >
 >  >  > FaBW article on Campaign (pre-release)
 >  >  > by Chris Ruthenberg 3:18am Sat Jul 28 '01
 >  >  > sales@...
 >  >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >  >
 >  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 >  > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >  >
 >  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  > _________________________________________________________________
 >  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >  >
 >  >
 >  > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >  >
 >  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >  >
 >  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >
 >
 > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >
 > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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 >
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 >
 >
 >
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
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 >
 >
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 >


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1938
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-03 12:00:26
Subject:RE: [nbpc] Frenchy
Message:

frenchy- this isn't productive or even intersting.  signing off. -MS


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [nbpc] Frenchy
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 08:52:11 -0400

Matt, does this mean that what you see in yourself is fascism and
imperialism?

______________________________________________________

(My response is this: I think sometimes we "hate" most what we see in
ourselves.  I support the struggle for Palestinian liberation against a
vicious imperialistic occupation of their homeland.  I feel for the Israeli
kids.  Beyond that, if your posts indicated any incling of an interest in
sorting out the infinite minutia of the historic and complex contradictions
in the region, I would engage you.  Otherwise- I embrace the aspect of SWORD
that rails against imperialism and it's "excessive use of force".  -Matthew)




All your messages and propaganda appeal to the lowest, most angry, most
primitive emotive aspects of humans -- "EVIL IS ON THE LOOSE -- DESTROY KILL
DESTROY!"  I mean, surely you do not see a little bit of SWORD (which you
criticize) in some of these 'agitprop' pieces?

Matt



  > Does anyone know who this knucklehead is? & why does he have
"ML-discussion"
  > in his email  (This isn't frenchy, is it? I expected more...)  btw- 8
more
  > "poor Palestinians" assasinated yesterday with US gunships, incl'd 2
little
  > kids...Sharon might prove to be the end of Israel if this continues to
  > Mount...
  >
  >
  >
  > The only thing hard to believe is that people would go to such great
lengths
  > to prove such a thing.
  >
  > Kids.
  >
  > Imperial Israeli government.
  >
  > The poor, innocent Palestinians.  Boo hoo hoo.
  >
  >
  >  > What's so hard to believe about HP concealing it's nazi "problem"?
Did
  > you
  >  > know that the Imperial Israeli Gov't is being run by...fascists?!
  >  >
  >  >
  >  > ----Original Message Follows----
  >  > From: Matt <ml@...>
  >  > Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  >  > To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
  >  > Subject: Re: [nbpc] FABW slithers back to town!
  >  > Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 22:14:12 -0400
  >  >
  >  >
  >  > My comment/question is:  how in the world could someone write such
  > drivel?
  >  > Do these people actually believe this type of garbage?  The author of
  > this
  >  > message makes Xavier look like ...  well, look like someone who I'd
  > almost
  >  > take seriously.  Almost.
  >  >
  >  > Um.  Yeah, the Jewish mayor and councilpeople, and especially the
ADL --
  >  > they are in league with the bourgeoisie/ the FASCISTS.  That's real
  > fucking
  >  > smart.  I'm about to go join the kiddies in their righteous fight, 
all
  >  > because a couple of geniuses uncovered a secret fascist plot in which
the
  >  > government of a town where Jews make up almost half of the population
is
  >  > nothing short of Fascist.
  >  >
  >  > If Mayor Frank, et. al. were laughing at Xavier, it was because he
made
a
  >  > fool of himself.  It's a good thing I didn't go to any of those silly
  >  > meetings because I would have felt pity for poor Xavier, who probably
  > turned
  >  > red while individuals (who were made up of both blacks and Jews)
waited
  >  > anxiously in line in front of the mic so they could lecture Xavier as
if
  > he
  >  > were a teenager who'd wrecked the family car.  "You owe us an 
apology,
  > young
  >  > man!"
  >  >
  >  > Xavier, you're grounded.
  >  >
  >  > Matt
  >  >
  >  >
  >  >
  >  >  > (I found this on Indymedia.org/newjersey section...wonder of
  >  >  > wonders--there's no mention of the relationship to NBPC 
organizers,
  > NJFO
  >  >  > history or even U&S, for that matter! Amazing. But it does appear
that
  >  > "For
  >  >  > a Better World" & DartherRuthenHensonHungerArtfordKnaveBurg is
doing
  > some
  >  >  > great work in Middlesex county. with friends like 
these...Comments,
  >  >  > Questions? ask  X)
  >  >  >
  >  >  > Neo-Nazis in Highland Park (full story)
  >  >  >
  >  >  > FaBW article on Campaign (pre-release)
  >  >  > by Chris Ruthenberg 3:18am Sat Jul 28 '01
  >  >  > sales@...
  >  >  >
  >  >
  >  >
  >  >
  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
  >  >
  >  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
  >  > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
  >  >
  >  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  >  >
  >  >
  >  >
  >  >
  >  > _________________________________________________________________
  >  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
  > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
  >  >
  >  >
  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
  >  >
  >  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
  > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
  >  >
  >  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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  >  >
  >  >
  >  >
  >
  >
  > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
  >
  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
  > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
  >
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  >
  >
  >
  >
  > _________________________________________________________________
  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
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  >
  >
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  >
  >


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1939
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-03 12:02:51
Subject:Fwd: Navy Bombs Vieques, Attacks Journalists and other Civilians
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "ViequesLibre" <ViequesLibre@...>
Reply-To: ViequesLibre-feedback-710@...
To: List Member <vivaohio@...>
Subject: Navy Bombs Vieques, Attacks Journalists and other Civilians
Date: 3 Aug 2001 12:37:11 -0000

(version en espanol abajo)

Tensions Flare Over Bomb Exercises

By MARCELO BALLVE
The Associated Press

   VIEQUES, Puerto Rico (AP) - U.S. Navy security personnel fired rubber 
bullets and tear gas at a crowd of protesters and journalists on Vieques 
island, sparking debate over the military's latest use of force and its 
resumption of maneuvers on the outlying Puerto Rican island.

The Navy said protesters were trying to break into a restricted area on 
Thursday night so security personnel fired tear gas, bean bags and rubber 
bullets to disperse the crowd. The projectiles were fired only after the 
protesters fired a flare toward the base, shined bright lights at the 
officers and tried to break into the fence, the Navy said.

Tomas van Houtryve, a photographer for The Associated Press, was hit in the 
arm by a rubber bullet as he ran away from guards firing tear gas. He had 
been covering the protests and the start of the maneuvers.

Van Houtryve said the protesters only shook the fence and yelled at the Navy 
when security personnel fired a flare, canisters of tear gas and then three 
rubber bullets at the fleeing crowd.

``There were people cutting the fence (on the range), throwing rocks at the 
security force and vehicles, and pushing on the fence,'' said Navy 
spokeswoman, Lt. Cmdr. Katherine Goode. ``As a result the security forces 
perceived this as threat to harm military personnel.''

But according to Van Houtryve, protesters didn't have any tools to cut the 
fence and didn't fire any flares. Photographers did use bright flashes to 
take pictures, he said.

Goode declined comment when asked about the conflicting report.

At least 12 protesters managed to invade Navy land bordering the bombing 
range to try to stop exercises, according to protest groups.

Some of the protesters early Friday morning spoke out against the Navy's use 
of rubber bullets and tear gas.

``This is another act of brutality and violence on the part of the Navy,'' 
said Robert Rabin, an anti-Navy activist. ``There was no doubt that this was 
an abuse of power because the military knew that there were journalists (in 
the crowd).''

The latest exercises, which could last until Aug. 10, involve ship-to-shore 
shelling, air-to-ground bombing and beach assaults, making the maneuvers 
some of the biggest since a civilian guard was killed by off-target bombs on 
the range in 1999. His death sparked island-wide protests on the 
18-mile-long island of Vieques and on the main island.

The Navy has trained on Vieques for every major conflict from World War II 
to Kosovo, and today uses Puerto Rico as a base to fight drug traffickers.

Last week, nearly 70 percent of Vieques residents voted for an immediate end 
to the bombing. Thirty percent supported the Navy remaining indefinitely and 
resuming bombing with live munitions.

President Bush has promised the Navy will leave Vieques by 2003. But in a 
nonbinding local referendum on the bombing Sunday, only 1.7 percent of 
voters among Vieques 9,100 residents backed his plan.
_____________________

Protesters gather as Navy bombs rain on Vieques

Iv�n Rom�n | San Juan Bureau Orlando Sentinel
August 3, 2001

VIEQUES, Puerto Rico -- U.S. Navy ships pounded the shores of this tiny 
island with dummy bombs Thursday only days after residents here asked the 
Navy to stop its military exercises immediately and leave.

It was the first day of training exercises expected to last more than a week 
-- and it will be the largest and most complex since the Vieques controversy 
exploded in April 1999.

As thousands of sailors and other troops resumed work, protesters gathered 
near the gate to the Navy base.

This time, however, they were protesting more than the Navy's exercises. 
They were also expressing anger over President Bush's refusal to abide by 
Sunday's referendum on Vieques.

In Sunday's nonbinding referendum, 68 percent of Vieques voters said the 
Navy should stop bombing immediately, clean up the island and return most of 
the land, which it has owned since World War II.

After the vote, Bush said the Navy would not be able to stop its training 
immediately, repeating his earlier decision to end the exercises for good in 
May 2003.

After exercises resumed, about 200 people chanted, "Navy Go Home" and 
"Democracy, Baby, Democracy" while others put mock ballots on the Navy 
fence. Military police with dogs and pepper spray lined up on the other 
side.

Protesters were hoping their actions would fuel further civil disobedience 
as the Navy continues exercises throughout the week.

"Sooner or later that vote will have enough strength to knock down that Navy 
fence," said Ismael Guadalupe, president of the Committee for the Rescue and 
Development of Vieques, as he gave the signal for the crowd to move closer 
to the fence. "That vote has to be defended."

As the 10-day training session continues, small groups of protesters plan to 
break through the Navy's fence to get to the target range, repeating actions 
they took during training exercises in April and June. The protesters were 
able to stop or disrupt the Navy's training for hours at a time.

Prominent lawyers and Roman Catholics, including at least one parish priest, 
plan to go onto the restricted Navy grounds before the week is out. The 
priest, who was arrested earlier this year when he broke through the fence, 
wrote a plea this week to Bush.

"Everyone has spoken, and no one has paid attention. Now in the name of God, 
I ask you that you remove the Navy from Vieques," the Rev. Nelson Lopez said 
at a news conference. "The people have spoken and ask for peace, and that 
gives us more strength to act."

No arrests had been reported Thursday evening, and two more groups of 
professionals, students and Vieques residents were expected to break through 
the fence under cover of darkness. The Socialist Workers' Movement reported 
that three teachers, a doctor, a lawyer, an athlete and a journalist have 
been on the target range since Wednesday afternoon and shot flares to signal 
the Navy that they were there.

Navy officials denied those reports.

During the day and night, about 23,000 sailors, Marines and soldiers will be 
conducting ship-to-shore shelling, air-to-ground bombing and amphibious 
beach assaults that Vieques Commissioner Juan Fernandez called an "all-out 
war scenario."

The USS Vella Gulf, a guided-missile cruiser, and another ship firing 
70-pound shells at the 900-acre target range began the exercises Thursday 
morning. It was the final training for the Norfolk, Va.-based Theodore 
Roosevelt battle group, which may be sent to the Persian Gulf or 
Mediterranean.

"If something were to happen in the Persian Gulf, this is the final step in 
training that prepares the troops to carry out an effective combat 
campaign," Navy spokesman Bob Nelson said.

On the legal front, Ponce Mayor Rafael "Churumba" Cordero Santiago, who 
heads Puerto Rico's second-largest city, was sentenced Thursday to 30 days 
in federal prison for trespassing onto Navy grounds during previous 
exercises. He is the latest of the more than 700 people arrested and charged 
with trespassing to be tried.

Environmental lawyer Robert Kennedy Jr. and New York labor leader Dennis 
Rivera were released Wednesday after serving 30-day sentences for 
trespassing and urged more people to get involved.
_____________________

Blanco de una bala de goma un fotoperiodista
viernes, 3 de agosto de 2001

Por Benjam�n Torres Gotay
El Nuevo D�a

VIEQUES - Un fot�grafo de prensa fue blanco de un balazo de goma disparado 
por militares, mientras cerca de una docena de manifestantes penetraron en 
la zona de tiro y otros tantos se preparaban para incursionar hoy, en los 
m�s notables incidentes ocurridos en el primer d�a de maniobras b�licas aqu� 
desde que la Isla Nena vot� en contra de la continuaci�n de las pr�cticas el 
domingo.
Mientras tanto, y a pesar de las versiones de que hab�a civiles en la zona 
de tiro, la Marina de Guerra de los Estados Unidos condujo sus ejercicios 
con normalidad entre las 8:40 a.m. y 8:00 p.m. y, seg�n fuentes militares, 
lleg� a disparar por lo menos 120 bombas de unas 70 libras contra las costas 
del extremo este de la isla municipio.

Cerca de un centenar de manifestantes, por otro lado, bloque� durante varias 
horas la entrada del Campamento Garc�a en la culminaci�n de una caravana de 
protesta en la que los activistas lanzaron contra el interior de la 
instalaci�n militar un modelo de la papeleta utilizada el domingo, en el que 
68.2% de los votantes de Vieques pidi� el cese inmediato y permanente de las 
maniobras b�licas.

Esos incidentes coronaron una jornada que hab�a transcurrido con tanta 
tranquilidad que incluso hizo temer a los l�deres de la campa�a anti-Marina 
que el fuego de la oposici�n a las maniobras estuviese en peligro de 
extinci�n despu�s de la votaci�n del domingo y de las informaciones de que 
el Congreso podr�a eliminar la certeza de que la Marina abandonar� la isla 
en mayo de 2003.

EL INCIDENTE en el que result� herido el fotoperiodista Thomas Van 
Houtryvre, asignado a la oficina de San Juan de The Associated Press, se 
produjo anoche mientras cubr�a a un grupo de j�venes que intentaba penetrar 
el Campamento Garc�a a trav�s de una verja cerca del sector Santa Mar�a. Los 
j�venes se acercaron a la verja poco antes de las 9:00 p.m. y fueron 
repelidos con gases lacrim�genos y balas de goma.

Los militares tambi�n lanzaron gases y dispararon contra los periodistas que 
cubr�an las incidencias desde una distancia de unos 25 metros de la verja. 
Von Houtryvre recibi� un balazo de goma cerca del codo en el brazo derecho. 
Anoche era atendido en el hospital municipal de Vieques.

Nadie m�s result� herido en el incidente.

Los j�venes que intentaban entrar dijeron que su prop�sito era dar apoyo a 
otros cinco manifestantes que hab�an penetrado los terrenos restringidos 
temprano en la noche, en lo que describieron como "una misi�n de 
reconocimiento" que les fall� cuando fueron detectados.

Entre esos cinco manifestantes hay dos que reci�n cumplieron una sentencia 
de 45 d�as por actos de desobediencia civil. Ninguno fue identificado.

Al mismo tiempo que este grupo, otros siete manifestantes tambi�n 
planificaban entrar, pero al cierre de esta edici�n no se ten�a certeza de 
si lo hab�an logrado.

POR OTRO lado, siete miembros del grupo Movimiento Socialista de 
Trabajadores (MST), entre los que se cuentan varios maestros, un abogado, 
una doctora y el periodista Ra�l Camilo Torres, segu�an anoche en la zona de 
tiro, a donde hab�an entrado, seg�n se inform�, desde el martes en la noche.

Un portavoz de la Marina, sin embargo, sostuvo que la Marina no pod�a 
confirmar si hab�a civiles en la zona de tiro y que dos buques militares 
hicieron decenas de disparos contra las playas de la isla. Los buques que 
practicaron ayer en Vieques fueron el USS Vella Gulf y el USS Ross. Durante 
los pr�ximos d�as seguir�n los disparos de barco a tierra y la semana que 
viene se intensificar�n las maniobras en las que participan unos 23,000 
efectivos, seg�n Bob Nelson, portavoz de la Marina.

Los siete miembros del MST que est�n en la zona de tiro, adem�s, de Torres, 
reportero de la estaci�n Radio Reloj (WKAQ-AM), son los maestros Rafael 
Feliciano, Manuel B�ez y Eva Ayala; el abogado Edgardo Rom�n, la doctora en 
medicina Johana de Jes�s y el viequense Eric Hern�ndez.





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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1941
Sender:jagross66@...
Post Date/Time:2001-08-03 18:28:14
Subject:[nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:

Before I proceed any further, let me respond generally to a point in 
your previous message that I missed.  I was not writing to you as the 
representative of a _practical viewpoint_, that is, a "faction", 
a "clique", etc.  

What I did argue was that the vote to reinstate yourself, your 
brother, Ms. Engel, et al, violated certain formal democratic 
principles.  Principles of this sort are in due part voluntary, 
though an organization cannot long function well without them.    

My argument about the agenda followed from the outline of principles 
quoted below.  I will repeat it in short:  Deciding to vote to 
overturn a previous democratic vote requires in-depth consideration, 
and never ought to be undertaken spontaneously.  It is therefore 
largely wise to propose to do so at one meeting, and give people a 
month to consider it.  This also ensures that people who are unable 
to attend the meeting for thoroughly valid reasons are not excluded 
from an important decision.  Again, this is more a matter of 
principle than a formal rule; there is no formal rule mandating this, 
as far as I am aware, in the People's Campaign.

Again, you may argue with what I wrote in the previous message if you 
wish.

- Jeremy








> i thought we were discussing the agenda?
> 
> 
> >From: jagross66@h...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: [nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
> >Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 00:08:20 -0000
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> 
wrote:
> >
> >Joe,
> >
> >Allow me to reframe the problem slightly in terms of general
> >principles.  I tried to incorporate your notion of the 'will of the
> >public' into the message ...
> >
> >When I spoke of "liberal democratic norms" below, I did not mean
> >something like "neoliberal economic values" or "the full set of
> >values typically embraced by centrist liberals".  I was merely
> >referring certain very, very basic liberal norms.  The following 
is a
> >cursory list, but it covers most of the bases :
> >
> >1)  An emphasis on procedures that ensure fair and open debate, and
> >guarantee room for productive dissent.  (If you look at the piece
> >Keith posted up, you'll see that even an 'old-school' Marxist-
> >Leninist would agree to some extent).
> >
> >2)  An acceptance of the values of precedent and continuity.  A
> >course of action, a vote, a set of rules that were previously 
adopted
> >by democratic means ought to be abandoned only with much 
reservation
> >and extensive deliberation.
> >
> >3)  The idea that people are to be judged, as far as the 
organization
> >officially cares, by their arguments and their actions, and not by
> >their beliefs, worldview, or their self-proclaimed ideology.  The
> >flipside of this is that one has a duty not to make one's arguments
> >_entirely_ bound to professions of faith in this or that religion 
or
> >ideology.
> >
> >4)  A limited, critical view of voting.  A vote is a technique that
> >can be employed in many different contexts, democratic and
> >undemocratic.  #1, 2 and 3 above provide the framework under which 
a
> >democratic vote can exist.
> >
> >5)  An effective recognition that the 'will of the public' is
> >meaningless outside of certain boundaries.  Those boundaries 
include
> >the actions of an elected leadership, and previous acts of 
the 'will
> >of the public' (see #2).
> >
> >An additional note of commentary:
> >
> >a)  You'll note that these are largely the alleged norms of 
anything
> >that tries to call itself 'democratic' in a liberal sense, 
including
> >a city council in New Jersey.  Precisely because of this, they are
> >not only necessary to guide the internal affairs of a reform-minded
> >organization.  They also are necessary if one is going to try to
> >argue that, for example, an allegedly 'democratically elected' city
> >council is truly undemocratic, or that its legislation is
> >undemocratic.
> >
> >b)  You'll observe that #3 has an implicit function.  It serves to
> >attempt to keep people speaking largely the same 'language'.  Not
> >everyone can communicate ideas through Biblical references, through
> >references to ancient Roman history, through Marxist jargon, 
through
> >the terms of this or that philosopher, and so forth.  But most 
people
> >can in some capacity speak the language of (American) liberal
> >politics.
> >
> >I can't think of much else to say on the matter.  If you want
> >elaboration on a certain point, or care to rationally debate a
> >certain point, I will happily respond.  Otherwise, I will presume 
the
> >conversation to be over.
> >
> >Yours,
> >
> >Jeremy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1942
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-08-04 17:28:12
Subject:[nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

for the record:

"electoral wins" are not the goal of the campaign, per se.

the seizure of power is ("unite,organize,seize power"...).
"community control"...

"electoral wins" are a "means" toward "uniting, organizing, & seizing 
power."

it is deceptive to claim that democratic peoples' power can be seized 
(from whom?!) through elections exclusively, under an imperialist 
dictatorship.

that is, if nbpc wins mayor&council, j&j still holds power.

class struggle.
cliff smith.

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> "Manufacturing" consent!?!?!  Now that's nonsense.  How the Campaign 
> decides on things is not complicated.  You make a proposal ... in 
> writing and in advance is the desirable way, so people can discuss 
> and think about it if possible.  You get it on the agenda.  It gets 
> discussed in the business meeting and voted on, up, down, or with 
> amendments.  Nothing precludes other meetings / discussion circles / 
> whatever from being formed to formulate ideas, attack proposals, 
etc.
> 
> As an example: the proposal that the Campaign's focus be electoral 
> wins, approved at the June meeting.  It was written up, posted on 
the 
> egroup, discussed at the meeting, and approved.  Anyone who felt 
that 
> the Campaign's goals ought to be something other than electoral 
wins, 
> was free to vote down the proposal.  A majority felt otherwise.  
> Nothing manufactured there.
> 
> Nor, strictly speaking, was anything "manufactured" by the 
admittedly 
> disappointing vote to readmit SWORD.  (reserving judgment on the 
> qualifications of some voters for the time being).  Mass 
> participation in our meetings is expressly provided for in our 
> procedures.  That SWORD's faction won can be more attributed to 
> community members' failure to attend our meetings, not a lack of 
> democratic procedure within the Campaign.
> 
> Also, FYI, to my knowledge, the People's Campaign Center plan has 
not 
> been repealed.  To the contrary, I think that most people recognize 
> that an organization like ours, whose goals are to win two defined 
> electoral campaigns, needs a physical headquarters.  Thus, just like 
> the opposition to Schundler is a MEANS of accomplishing our GOAL of 
> electoral wins, so too is the People's Campaign Center a MEANS of 
> accomplishing those GOALS.  That some of the people who were leading 
> the People's Campaign Center committee have not followed through on 
> their assigned tasks is unfortunate as well but I do not equate that 
> with abandonment of the proposal.
> 
> One last comment: I do not belittle the need to study theory and 
> history.  I would like to hear some theoretical and historical 
> analysis of how we clean the machine's clock in 2001 and 2002, not 
> the value of Bettleheim.
> 
> 
> --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> 
wrote:
> > Jeremy,
> > One of the reason that I posted the piece you mentioned was that I 
> think that the
> > campaign has a tendency towards "manufacturing consent" rather 
than 
> participatory
> > democracy. Though I wouldn't advocate it for the campaign the 
ideal 
> of democractic
> > centralism is that thorough going discussion proceeds decisions 
and 
> are followed by
> > unity of action even by dissenters who are not only allowed but 
> encouraged to continue
> > to raise their dissent in the future. This is ideal for a 
> revolutionary organziation
> > because it allows unity of action in bloc. But as I said 
democratic 
> centralism is not
> > appropriate for the campaign.
> > 
> > Anyway as to this debate, I don't think that the vote last 
saturday 
> was a perfect
> > expression of the public will or even democratic principles, 
> however it was a perfect
> > expression of the form of democrcay that has come to dominate in 
> the People's
> > Campaign. If one of the results of that decision is a more serious 
> consideration of
> > what it means to function democratically I would be very happy.
> > 
> > I also feel that the whole issue of democracy within the campaign 
> is being raised at
> > this time because it is the first time that a certain clique has 
> lost a vote.
> > Unfortunately this discussion was not happening prior to the 
latest 
> decision. I think
> > that the principles that you outlined below would be a fine place 
> to start.
> > 
> > As an ideological aside I think that the liberal idea of democracy 
> is exactly what
> > Chomsky called "manufacturing consent" the idea of a participatory 
> democracy is
> > outside of the liberal conception. For the liberal the point of 
> democracy is to be
> > able to pursue private interests (usually involving some 
> exploiattion) while what I
> > think that what we want from a working class standpoint or radical 
> democratic if you
> > prefer is mass participation and an enlargement of the public 
> sphere and public
> > control resting on the assumption that human beings are social 
> animals and that
> > co-operation is essential to our survival if we want to live 
> without exploitation,
> > coercion and oppression.
> > 
> > Since you weren't at the meeting I will add, that I argued to end 
> the expulsion of
> > sword. I don't agree that what we now need is an interegation of 
> why people voted the
> > way they did. I understand why people voted the way they did and 
> that is their right.
> > But to explain my own actions, firstly I opposse on principle the 
> policy of expelling
> > leftist even if they are ultra-leftist. I think that this was done 
> much to flippantly
> > in the first place. It is not the practice of Lenin or Mao (not 
> that you care in
> > particular, but for the record) who worked with Trotsky and the 
> gang of four
> > respectively even while criticizing them. I won't make a dogma out 
> of it but generally
> > speaking there should be extraordinary circumstances. I also find 
> it odd that we would
> > work with republicans and not sword.
> > 
> > A second reason is that there is a very distinct right trend that 
> has emerged in the
> > campaign. Part of that trend I already mentioned as far as the 
> discussion of
> > democrcay, some other aspects are the trading of political work 
for 
> social service (ie
> > office space club house whatever), the narrowing of the struggle 
to 
> its the most
> > parochial features, the repeated attempts to suppress discussion 
> and debate, the
> > belittling of theory, the refusal to be self-critical etc.
> > 
> > In my opinion these are right wing mistakes that need to be 
> corrected in order to move
> > forward, I think that sword will be allies in that struggle.
> > 
> > There already exists some kind of code of conduct, if people feel 
> the need to expound
> > it and include basic things like an end to  profanity and name 
> calling in place of
> > polemic and discussion, though it seems profoundly childish that 
we 
> need such things
> > but I guess practice has proven that we do, I would support that.
> > 
> > I am opposed to explusions that are motivated by desire for 
> personal power or stifling
> > dissent or eliminating a political line that someone may not agree 
> with but does not
> > violate our principles of unity or our platform(a note for the 
> slow: the republicans
> > oppose our platform).
> > 
> > While some members of sword have not been the most reasonable 
> people and often tended
> > to revert to school yard antics like name calling and profainity, 
I 
> think that those
> > tendencies can be criticized and eliminated without expelling the 
> organization.
> > 
> > Keith
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > jagross66@h... wrote:
> > 
> > > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > Allow me to reframe the problem slightly in terms of general
> > > principles.  I tried to incorporate your notion of the 'will of 
> the
> > > public' into the message ...
> > >
> > > When I spoke of "liberal democratic norms" below, I did not mean
> > > something like "neoliberal economic values" or "the full set of
> > > values typically embraced by centrist liberals".  I was merely
> > > referring certain very, very basic liberal norms.  The following 
> is a
> > > cursory list, but it covers most of the bases :
> > >
> > > 1)  An emphasis on procedures that ensure fair and open debate, 
> and
> > > guarantee room for productive dissent.  (If you look at the 
piece
> > > Keith posted up, you'll see that even an 'old-school' Marxist-
> > > Leninist would agree to some extent).
> > >
> > > 2)  An acceptance of the values of precedent and continuity.  A
> > > course of action, a vote, a set of rules that were previously 
> adopted
> > > by democratic means ought to be abandoned only with much 
> reservation
> > > and extensive deliberation.
> > >
> > > 3)  The idea that people are to be judged, as far as the 
> organization
> > > officially cares, by their arguments and their actions, and not 
by
> > > their beliefs, worldview, or their self-proclaimed ideology.  
The
> > > flipside of this is that one has a duty not to make one's 
> arguments
> > > _entirely_ bound to professions of faith in this or that 
religion 
> or
> > > ideology.
> > >
> > > 4)  A limited, critical view of voting.  A vote is a technique 
> that
> > > can be employed in many different contexts, democratic and
> > > undemocratic.  #1, 2 and 3 above provide the framework under 
> which a
> > > democratic vote can exist.
> > >
> > > 5)  An effective recognition that the 'will of the public' is
> > > meaningless outside of certain boundaries.  Those boundaries 
> include
> > > the actions of an elected leadership, and previous acts of 
> the 'will
> > > of the public' (see #2).
> > >
> > > An additional note of commentary:
> > >
> > > a)  You'll note that these are largely the alleged norms of 
> anything
> > > that tries to call itself 'democratic' in a liberal sense, 
> including
> > > a city council in New Jersey.  Precisely because of this, they 
are
> > > not only necessary to guide the internal affairs of a reform-
> minded
> > > organization.  They also are necessary if one is going to try to
> > > argue that, for example, an allegedly 'democratically elected' 
> city
> > > council is truly undemocratic, or that its legislation is
> > > undemocratic.
> > >
> > > b)  You'll observe that #3 has an implicit function.  It serves 
to
> > > attempt to keep people speaking largely the same 'language'.  
Not
> > > everyone can communicate ideas through Biblical references, 
> through
> > > references to ancient Roman history, through Marxist jargon, 
> through
> > > the terms of this or that philosopher, and so forth.  But most 
> people
> > > can in some capacity speak the language of (American) liberal
> > > politics.
> > >
> > > I can't think of much else to say on the matter.  If you want
> > > elaboration on a certain point, or care to rationally debate a
> > > certain point, I will happily respond.  Otherwise, I will 
presume 
> the
> > > conversation to be over.
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > >
> > > Jeremy
> > >
> > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: nbpeoplescampaign-
> unsubscribe@e...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1943
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-08-04 17:32:33
Subject:[nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

the open vote to rectify sword's expulsion was 1000x's more democratic
than the closed vote to expel.

cs



--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> wrote:
> Flavio,
> 
> I support the idea that the campaign be focused on electoral 
politics. An office for
> that is fine though that was not what was voted on at the campaign 
meeting. It was the
> peoples community center for democrac or some such thing. An office 
with a phone and
> photocopier is something else though neither should be put before 
political work.
> 
> I think we also agree that the vote to re-admit sword happened in 
the same fashion as
> very other vote in the campaign.
> (you are wrong about eligibility by campaign rules)
> 
> But it is interesting that this vote would cause so much discussion 
about procedure
> and little about anything else. Procedure is not suppossed to be a 
battering ram to
> eleimnate political ideas or votes thatyou don't agree with.
> 
> I think that the vote on the "community cenetr" was a classic 
example of manufactured
> consent. Some 50 people voted in favor of it never to be heard from 
again.
> how would you explain that.
> 
> As far as winning the election in 2002. I think that Joe is right 
win he says get rid
> of the right wing work in the community.
> The people of New Brunswick are instinctively anti-republican (and 
their instincts are
> correct) regardless of how many people like Frank Bright.  When we 
unite with
> republicans we give the appearance that we are attacking the local 
democrats from the
> right rather than the left. This was fatal in November 2000 and will 
be fatal in 2002
> if it is not corrected.
> 
> Our commitment to electoral politics should look like this. Always 
opposse
> republicans. opposse democrats were we can win, support them when we 
can't and there
> is a greater danger, and work to end the domination of two parties 
in favor of a
> multi-party system.
> 
> This is simple and would win us broad support and once we showed its 
effectiveness in
> practice it will be easy to raise money for office space.
> 
> It is the only winning strategy for 2002.
> 
> The reason for all the confusion and commotion is that we can not 
have a broad
> discussion of this question to re-order the camapaign on the footing 
the I set forth
> above. So we inch foward with band aid solutions. My advocacy of 
purging the
> republicans and re-admitting Sword stems from the desire to put the 
campign on the
> footing stated above.
> 
> That is the only winning strategy for 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> 
> > "Manufacturing" consent!?!?!  Now that's nonsense.  How the 
Campaign
> > decides on things is not complicated.  You make a proposal ... in
> > writing and in advance is the desirable way, so people can discuss
> > and think about it if possible.  You get it on the agenda.  It 
gets
> > discussed in the business meeting and voted on, up, down, or with
> > amendments.  Nothing precludes other meetings / discussion circles 
/
> > whatever from being formed to formulate ideas, attack proposals, 
etc.
> >
> > As an example: the proposal that the Campaign's focus be electoral
> > wins, approved at the June meeting.  It was written up, posted on 
the
> > egroup, discussed at the meeting, and approved.  Anyone who felt 
that
> > the Campaign's goals ought to be something other than electoral 
wins,
> > was free to vote down the proposal.  A majority felt otherwise.
> > Nothing manufactured there.
> >
> > Nor, strictly speaking, was anything "manufactured" by the 
admittedly
> > disappointing vote to readmit SWORD.  (reserving judgment on the
> > qualifications of some voters for the time being).  Mass
> > participation in our meetings is expressly provided for in our
> > procedures.  That SWORD's faction won can be more attributed to
> > community members' failure to attend our meetings, not a lack of
> > democratic procedure within the Campaign.
> >
> > Also, FYI, to my knowledge, the People's Campaign Center plan has 
not
> > been repealed.  To the contrary, I think that most people 
recognize
> > that an organization like ours, whose goals are to win two defined
> > electoral campaigns, needs a physical headquarters.  Thus, just 
like
> > the opposition to Schundler is a MEANS of accomplishing our GOAL 
of
> > electoral wins, so too is the People's Campaign Center a MEANS of
> > accomplishing those GOALS.  That some of the people who were 
leading
> > the People's Campaign Center committee have not followed through 
on
> > their assigned tasks is unfortunate as well but I do not equate 
that
> > with abandonment of the proposal.
> >
> > One last comment: I do not belittle the need to study theory and
> > history.  I would like to hear some theoretical and historical
> > analysis of how we clean the machine's clock in 2001 and 2002, not
> > the value of Bettleheim.
> >
> > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> 
wrote:
> > > Jeremy,
> > > One of the reason that I posted the piece you mentioned was that 
I
> > think that the
> > > campaign has a tendency towards "manufacturing consent" rather 
than
> > participatory
> > > democracy. Though I wouldn't advocate it for the campaign the 
ideal
> > of democractic
> > > centralism is that thorough going discussion proceeds decisions 
and
> > are followed by
> > > unity of action even by dissenters who are not only allowed but
> > encouraged to continue
> > > to raise their dissent in the future. This is ideal for a
> > revolutionary organziation
> > > because it allows unity of action in bloc. But as I said 
democratic
> > centralism is not
> > > appropriate for the campaign.
> > >
> > > Anyway as to this debate, I don't think that the vote last 
saturday
> > was a perfect
> > > expression of the public will or even democratic principles,
> > however it was a perfect
> > > expression of the form of democrcay that has come to dominate in
> > the People's
> > > Campaign. If one of the results of that decision is a more 
serious
> > consideration of
> > > what it means to function democratically I would be very happy.
> > >
> > > I also feel that the whole issue of democracy within the 
campaign
> > is being raised at
> > > this time because it is the first time that a certain clique has
> > lost a vote.
> > > Unfortunately this discussion was not happening prior to the 
latest
> > decision. I think
> > > that the principles that you outlined below would be a fine 
place
> > to start.
> > >
> > > As an ideological aside I think that the liberal idea of 
democracy
> > is exactly what
> > > Chomsky called "manufacturing consent" the idea of a 
participatory
> > democracy is
> > > outside of the liberal conception. For the liberal the point of
> > democracy is to be
> > > able to pursue private interests (usually involving some
> > exploiattion) while what I
> > > think that what we want from a working class standpoint or 
radical
> > democratic if you
> > > prefer is mass participation and an enlargement of the public
> > sphere and public
> > > control resting on the assumption that human beings are social
> > animals and that
> > > co-operation is essential to our survival if we want to live
> > without exploitation,
> > > coercion and oppression.
> > >
> > > Since you weren't at the meeting I will add, that I argued to 
end
> > the expulsion of
> > > sword. I don't agree that what we now need is an interegation of
> > why people voted the
> > > way they did. I understand why people voted the way they did and
> > that is their right.
> > > But to explain my own actions, firstly I opposse on principle 
the
> > policy of expelling
> > > leftist even if they are ultra-leftist. I think that this was 
done
> > much to flippantly
> > > in the first place. It is not the practice of Lenin or Mao (not
> > that you care in
> > > particular, but for the record) who worked with Trotsky and the
> > gang of four
> > > respectively even while criticizing them. I won't make a dogma 
out
> > of it but generally
> > > speaking there should be extraordinary circumstances. I also 
find
> > it odd that we would
> > > work with republicans and not sword.
> > >
> > > A second reason is that there is a very distinct right trend 
that
> > has emerged in the
> > > campaign. Part of that trend I already mentioned as far as the
> > discussion of
> > > democrcay, some other aspects are the trading of political work 
for
> > social service (ie
> > > office space club house whatever), the narrowing of the struggle 
to
> > its the most
> > > parochial features, the repeated attempts to suppress discussion
> > and debate, the
> > > belittling of theory, the refusal to be self-critical etc.
> > >
> > > In my opinion these are right wing mistakes that need to be
> > corrected in order to move
> > > forward, I think that sword will be allies in that struggle.
> > >
> > > There already exists some kind of code of conduct, if people 
feel
> > the need to expound
> > > it and include basic things like an end to  profanity and name
> > calling in place of
> > > polemic and discussion, though it seems profoundly childish that 
we
> > need such things
> > > but I guess practice has proven that we do, I would support 
that.
> > >
> > > I am opposed to explusions that are motivated by desire for
> > personal power or stifling
> > > dissent or eliminating a political line that someone may not 
agree
> > with but does not
> > > violate our principles of unity or our platform(a note for the
> > slow: the republicans
> > > oppose our platform).
> > >
> > > While some members of sword have not been the most reasonable
> > people and often tended
> > > to revert to school yard antics like name calling and 
profainity, I
> > think that those
> > > tendencies can be criticized and eliminated without expelling 
the
> > organization.
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > jagross66@h... wrote:
> > >
> > > > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Joe,
> > > >
> > > > Allow me to reframe the problem slightly in terms of general
> > > > principles.  I tried to incorporate your notion of the 'will 
of
> > the
> > > > public' into the message ...
> > > >
> > > > When I spoke of "liberal democratic norms" below, I did not 
mean
> > > > something like "neoliberal economic values" or "the full set 
of
> > > > values typically embraced by centrist liberals".  I was merely
> > > > referring certain very, very basic liberal norms.  The 
following
> > is a
> > > > cursory list, but it covers most of the bases :
> > > >
> > > > 1)  An emphasis on procedures that ensure fair and open 
debate,
> > and
> > > > guarantee room for productive dissent.  (If you look at the 
piece
> > > > Keith posted up, you'll see that even an 'old-school' Marxist-
> > > > Leninist would agree to some extent).
> > > >
> > > > 2)  An acceptance of the values of precedent and continuity.  
A
> > > > course of action, a vote, a set of rules that were previously
> > adopted
> > > > by democratic means ought to be abandoned only with much
> > reservation
> > > > and extensive deliberation.
> > > >
> > > > 3)  The idea that people are to be judged, as far as the
> > organization
> > > > officially cares, by their arguments and their actions, and 
not by
> > > > their beliefs, worldview, or their self-proclaimed ideology.  
The
> > > > flipside of this is that one has a duty not to make one's
> > arguments
> > > > _entirely_ bound to professions of faith in this or that 
religion
> > or
> > > > ideology.
> > > >
> > > > 4)  A limited, critical view of voting.  A vote is a technique
> > that
> > > > can be employed in many different contexts, democratic and
> > > > undemocratic.  #1, 2 and 3 above provide the framework under
> > which a
> > > > democratic vote can exist.
> > > >
> > > > 5)  An effective recognition that the 'will of the public' is
> > > > meaningless outside of certain boundaries.  Those boundaries
> > include
> > > > the actions of an elected leadership, and previous acts of
> > the 'will
> > > > of the public' (see #2).
> > > >
> > > > An additional note of commentary:
> > > >
> > > > a)  You'll note that these are largely the alleged norms of
> > anything
> > > > that tries to call itself 'democratic' in a liberal sense,
> > including
> > > > a city council in New Jersey.  Precisely because of this, they 
are
> > > > not only necessary to guide the internal affairs of a reform-
> > minded
> > > > organization.  They also are necessary if one is going to try 
to
> > > > argue that, for example, an allegedly 'democratically elected'
> > city
> > > > council is truly undemocratic, or that its legislation is
> > > > undemocratic.
> > > >
> > > > b)  You'll observe that #3 has an implicit function.  It 
serves to
> > > > attempt to keep people speaking largely the same 'language'.  
Not
> > > > everyone can communicate ideas through Biblical references,
> > through
> > > > references to ancient Roman history, through Marxist jargon,
> > through
> > > > the terms of this or that philosopher, and so forth.  But most
> > people
> > > > can in some capacity speak the language of (American) liberal
> > > > politics.
> > > >
> > > > I can't think of much else to say on the matter.  If you want
> > > > elaboration on a certain point, or care to rationally debate a
> > > > certain point, I will happily respond.  Otherwise, I will 
presume
> > the
> > > > conversation to be over.
> > > >
> > > > Yours,
> > > >
> > > > Jeremy
> > > >
> > > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: nbpeoplescampaign-
> > unsubscribe@e...
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1944
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-04 18:10:52
Subject:I never heard the sound
Message:

I Never Heard the Sound

I bled
I beat my drums
I sweated
I danced
I sung
I cried
I spoke to God
I died inside
I the faithful one
the patient one
I rose upon the sun
and toiled till the day
was done...
I reached into the sky
to pull down hope
and crumble freedoms lie
but-
I never heard the sound
I never heard the sound
of those
dark, dirty, cold
WALLS
of slavery
crashing down-
I never heard the sound!

by Gwendolyn (Rain) Wilson

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1946
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-08-04 19:21:49
Subject:[nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

Cliff:

you are mistaken.  The Membership adopted the following at the 
6/30/01 meeting:

"[T]he following two points are adopted as the purposes of 
the New Brunswick People's Campaign effective immediately:

	1.	To win the New Brunswick Democracy and Accountability 
Ordinance of 2001 by a popular referendum to be held at the 2001 
general election....

	2.	To win the mayor's seat and the two city council 
seats which will be open in the 2002 general election, running on a 
progressive platform demonstrably supported by the people as measured 
through surveying and a vote at a people's convention."


Therefore, electoral wins are in fact the per se goal of the 
Campaign.  You may not like the fact that the Campaign has defined 
clear and winnable objectives, focused on New Brunswick, instead of 
slogans, mantras, and ideology, but that's what it is.  





--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., cliffsmith69@h... wrote:
> for the record:
> 
> "electoral wins" are not the goal of the campaign, per se.
> 
> the seizure of power is ("unite,organize,seize power"...).
> "community control"...
> 
> "electoral wins" are a "means" toward "uniting, organizing, & 
seizing 
> power."
> 
> it is deceptive to claim that democratic peoples' power can be 
seized 
> (from whom?!) through elections exclusively, under an imperialist 
> dictatorship.
> 
> that is, if nbpc wins mayor&council, j&j still holds power.
> 
> class struggle.
> cliff smith.
> 








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1948
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-08-06 11:20:44
Subject:[nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

Keith,

my recollection is that BOL expulsion was effectively appealed to the 
membership at a general meeting.  Specifically, I recall that Tamara 
had written a letter effectively appealing the decision, and at a 
membership meeting in the backyard of the Campaign HQ, the points in 
the letter were essentially dismissed.  Perhaps my memory does not 
serve right, but if it does, I would take that as a de facto 
affirmance of the SC expulsion order in a democratic general meeting.

The readmission vote now seems procedurally valid based upon Lou's 
statements confirming that the voters there did actual work for the 
Campaign in the 6 months preceding the vote.  As a result, the NB 
residents of SWORD covered by the expulsion order who have been at 
general meetings are entitled to access nbpcmembers.  This would 
cover Joe, Cliff and Tamara, and perhaps others.  SWORD members who 
would not qualify for membership under current rules are, of course, 
not entitled to access until they qualify as members.

Also, I am interested in learning what changes you advocate to 
improve the decision-making framework of the group.  Obviously, more 
discussion is a good thing, but when the rubber hits the road, and 
it's time to vote, who is entitled to cast ballots?  I would welcome 
your ideas on the matter.



--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> wrote:
> Two points,
> first, Cliff is correct that the decision to expel sword took place 
in a steering
> committee meeting.
> 
> Secondly, the vote was 8 to 5  to adopt the purpose that you list 
below. Out of the
> eight, 3 were Tracy Ford's kids (who are how old? and have done 
what?) and on top of
> those three, one was Ford himself and the other was Bright.
> 
> What's good for the goose is good for the gander. But, maybe we 
should admit that the
> current attempts at democracy in the campaign leave something to be 
desired. And agree
> to come up with a better framework.
> 
> Keith
> 
> Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> 
> > Cliff:
> >
> > you are mistaken.  The Membership adopted the following at the
> > 6/30/01 meeting:
> >
> > "[T]he following two points are adopted as the purposes of
> > the New Brunswick People's Campaign effective immediately:
> >
> >         1.      To win the New Brunswick Democracy and 
Accountability
> > Ordinance of 2001 by a popular referendum to be held at the 2001
> > general election....
> >
> >         2.      To win the mayor's seat and the two city council
> > seats which will be open in the 2002 general election, running on 
a
> > progressive platform demonstrably supported by the people as 
measured
> > through surveying and a vote at a people's convention."
> >
> > Therefore, electoral wins are in fact the per se goal of the
> > Campaign.  You may not like the fact that the Campaign has defined
> > clear and winnable objectives, focused on New Brunswick, instead 
of
> > slogans, mantras, and ideology, but that's what it is.
> >
> > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., cliffsmith69@h... wrote:
> > > for the record:
> > >
> > > "electoral wins" are not the goal of the campaign, per se.
> > >
> > > the seizure of power is ("unite,organize,seize power"...).
> > > "community control"...
> > >
> > > "electoral wins" are a "means" toward "uniting, organizing, &
> > seizing
> > > power."
> > >
> > > it is deceptive to claim that democratic peoples' power can be
> > seized
> > > (from whom?!) through elections exclusively, under an 
imperialist
> > > dictatorship.
> > >
> > > that is, if nbpc wins mayor&council, j&j still holds power.
> > >
> > > class struggle.
> > > cliff smith.
> > >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: nbpeoplescampaign-
unsubscribe@e...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1949
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-06 12:20:47
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

flavio, maybe you can find an explaination why tamara was expelled weeks 
after me from a women's caucus meeting with no vote, no reason given, and no 
general membership decision?

joe



>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
>Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:20:44 -0000
>
>Keith,
>
>my recollection is that BOL expulsion was effectively appealed to the
>membership at a general meeting.  Specifically, I recall that Tamara
>had written a letter effectively appealing the decision, and at a
>membership meeting in the backyard of the Campaign HQ, the points in
>the letter were essentially dismissed.  Perhaps my memory does not
>serve right, but if it does, I would take that as a de facto
>affirmance of the SC expulsion order in a democratic general meeting.
>
>The readmission vote now seems procedurally valid based upon Lou's
>statements confirming that the voters there did actual work for the
>Campaign in the 6 months preceding the vote.  As a result, the NB
>residents of SWORD covered by the expulsion order who have been at
>general meetings are entitled to access nbpcmembers.  This would
>cover Joe, Cliff and Tamara, and perhaps others.  SWORD members who
>would not qualify for membership under current rules are, of course,
>not entitled to access until they qualify as members.
>
>Also, I am interested in learning what changes you advocate to
>improve the decision-making framework of the group.  Obviously, more
>discussion is a good thing, but when the rubber hits the road, and
>it's time to vote, who is entitled to cast ballots?  I would welcome
>your ideas on the matter.
>
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> wrote:
> > Two points,
> > first, Cliff is correct that the decision to expel sword took place
>in a steering
> > committee meeting.
> >
> > Secondly, the vote was 8 to 5  to adopt the purpose that you list
>below. Out of the
> > eight, 3 were Tracy Ford's kids (who are how old? and have done
>what?) and on top of
> > those three, one was Ford himself and the other was Bright.
> >
> > What's good for the goose is good for the gander. But, maybe we
>should admit that the
> > current attempts at democracy in the campaign leave something to be
>desired. And agree
> > to come up with a better framework.
> >
> > Keith
> >
> > Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> >
> > > Cliff:
> > >
> > > you are mistaken.  The Membership adopted the following at the
> > > 6/30/01 meeting:
> > >
> > > "[T]he following two points are adopted as the purposes of
> > > the New Brunswick People's Campaign effective immediately:
> > >
> > >         1.      To win the New Brunswick Democracy and
>Accountability
> > > Ordinance of 2001 by a popular referendum to be held at the 2001
> > > general election....
> > >
> > >         2.      To win the mayor's seat and the two city council
> > > seats which will be open in the 2002 general election, running on
>a
> > > progressive platform demonstrably supported by the people as
>measured
> > > through surveying and a vote at a people's convention."
> > >
> > > Therefore, electoral wins are in fact the per se goal of the
> > > Campaign.  You may not like the fact that the Campaign has defined
> > > clear and winnable objectives, focused on New Brunswick, instead
>of
> > > slogans, mantras, and ideology, but that's what it is.
> > >
> > > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., cliffsmith69@h... wrote:
> > > > for the record:
> > > >
> > > > "electoral wins" are not the goal of the campaign, per se.
> > > >
> > > > the seizure of power is ("unite,organize,seize power"...).
> > > > "community control"...
> > > >
> > > > "electoral wins" are a "means" toward "uniting, organizing, &
> > > seizing
> > > > power."
> > > >
> > > > it is deceptive to claim that democratic peoples' power can be
> > > seized
> > > > (from whom?!) through elections exclusively, under an
>imperialist
> > > > dictatorship.
> > > >
> > > > that is, if nbpc wins mayor&council, j&j still holds power.
> > > >
> > > > class struggle.
> > > > cliff smith.
> > > >
> > >
> > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: nbpeoplescampaign-
>unsubscribe@e...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1950
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-08-06 12:52:52
Subject:[nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
Message:

I do not have an answer to your question as I was neither GC or on 
the SC at the time in question (circa June 2000).

But are you alleging that Tamara wasn't covered by the BOL expulsion 
order?  If not, how can you now claim she is covered by the 
reinstatement order which reversed the BOL order?



--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> flavio, maybe you can find an explaination why tamara was expelled 
weeks 
> after me from a women's caucus meeting with no vote, no reason 
given, and no 
> general membership decision?
> 
> joe
> 
> 
> 
> >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: [nbpc] Re:Revolutionaries SI! Republicans NO!!
> >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:20:44 -0000
> >
> >Keith,
> >
> >my recollection is that BOL expulsion was effectively appealed to 
the
> >membership at a general meeting.  Specifically, I recall that 
Tamara
> >had written a letter effectively appealing the decision, and at a
> >membership meeting in the backyard of the Campaign HQ, the points 
in
> >the letter were essentially dismissed.  Perhaps my memory does not
> >serve right, but if it does, I would take that as a de facto
> >affirmance of the SC expulsion order in a democratic general 
meeting.
> >
> >The readmission vote now seems procedurally valid based upon Lou's
> >statements confirming that the voters there did actual work for the
> >Campaign in the 6 months preceding the vote.  As a result, the NB
> >residents of SWORD covered by the expulsion order who have been at
> >general meetings are entitled to access nbpcmembers.  This would
> >cover Joe, Cliff and Tamara, and perhaps others.  SWORD members who
> >would not qualify for membership under current rules are, of 
course,
> >not entitled to access until they qualify as members.
> >
> >Also, I am interested in learning what changes you advocate to
> >improve the decision-making framework of the group.  Obviously, 
more
> >discussion is a good thing, but when the rubber hits the road, and
> >it's time to vote, who is entitled to cast ballots?  I would 
welcome
> >your ideas on the matter.
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> 
wrote:
> > > Two points,
> > > first, Cliff is correct that the decision to expel sword took 
place
> >in a steering
> > > committee meeting.
> > >
> > > Secondly, the vote was 8 to 5  to adopt the purpose that you 
list
> >below. Out of the
> > > eight, 3 were Tracy Ford's kids (who are how old? and have done
> >what?) and on top of
> > > those three, one was Ford himself and the other was Bright.
> > >
> > > What's good for the goose is good for the gander. But, maybe we
> >should admit that the
> > > current attempts at democracy in the campaign leave something 
to be
> >desired. And agree
> > > to come up with a better framework.
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > > Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> > >
> > > > Cliff:
> > > >
> > > > you are mistaken.  The Membership adopted the following at the
> > > > 6/30/01 meeting:
> > > >
> > > > "[T]he following two points are adopted as the purposes of
> > > > the New Brunswick People's Campaign effective immediately:
> > > >
> > > >         1.      To win the New Brunswick Democracy and
> >Accountability
> > > > Ordinance of 2001 by a popular referendum to be held at the 
2001
> > > > general election....
> > > >
> > > >         2.      To win the mayor's seat and the two city 
council
> > > > seats which will be open in the 2002 general election, 
running on
> >a
> > > > progressive platform demonstrably supported by the people as
> >measured
> > > > through surveying and a vote at a people's convention."
> > > >
> > > > Therefore, electoral wins are in fact the per se goal of the
> > > > Campaign.  You may not like the fact that the Campaign has 
defined
> > > > clear and winnable objectives, focused on New Brunswick, 
instead
> >of
> > > > slogans, mantras, and ideology, but that's what it is.
> > > >
> > > > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., cliffsmith69@h... wrote:
> > > > > for the record:
> > > > >
> > > > > "electoral wins" are not the goal of the campaign, per se.
> > > > >
> > > > > the seizure of power is ("unite,organize,seize power"...).
> > > > > "community control"...
> > > > >
> > > > > "electoral wins" are a "means" toward "uniting, organizing, 
&
> > > > seizing
> > > > > power."
> > > > >
> > > > > it is deceptive to claim that democratic peoples' power can 
be
> > > > seized
> > > > > (from whom?!) through elections exclusively, under an
> >imperialist
> > > > > dictatorship.
> > > > >
> > > > > that is, if nbpc wins mayor&council, j&j still holds power.
> > > > >
> > > > > class struggle.
> > > > > cliff smith.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: nbpeoplescampaign-
> >unsubscribe@e...
> > > >
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Post ID:1951
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-08 16:51:29
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Protest if Amy Goodman is fired
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: CFNJ-Communications <siddharta5@...>
To: friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Protest if Amy Goodman is fired
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:36:49 -0700 (PDT)

 > From:           	Bob Lederer <ledererbob@...>
 > Subject:        	Protest if Amy Goodman is fired
 >
 > The anonymous email below, posted this morning on the WBAI Goodlights
 > Message Board, is the latest of many pieces of evidence that Amy
 > Goodman is in serious danger of being fired very soon, ostensibly for
 > refusing to stop saying "From the studios of the banned and the
 > fired" etc. In order to be prepared, the Action Committee of
 > Concerned Friends of WBAI last night decided on the following
 > contingency plan:
 >
 > If you tune in at 9 am and do not hear Amy's voice on Democracy Now,
 > we will rally the next day (unless it occurs on Friday) from
 > 7:00-10:00 a.m. in front of the station at 120 Wall St. If that
 > occurs on Friday, we will rally at noon on Saturday in front of the
 > station. If you hear an old re-run of her show, call the Concerned
 > Friends hotline at 800-825-0055 for the latest information on our
 > response. If Amy is removed from the air, we will announce a
 > phone/email pressure campaign on specific Pacifica officials, as well
 > as a town meeting within several days to involve many people in
 > mobilizing a broad range of actions.
 >
 > In the meantime, remember Bernard White's words, "Stay strong and pay
 > close attention."
 >
 > Bob Lederer
 > Fired and Banned WBAI Producer
 > ****************************************
 >
 >         UNCONFIRMED RUMOR THAT YASKO AND WASH ARE IN NY
 >         TO FIRE AMY THIS MORNING FROM MY FRIEND IN DC
 >         Wed Aug 8 05:48:31 2001
 >
 >         I just got an email from a friend of mine who is peripherally
 > connected to the pacifica office in Washington. she says that yasko
 > and wash have gone up to NY to lower the boom on Amy this morning. It
 > makes sense to me since they just got rid of Knight and Lederer and
 > now their going after the last real survivor. my friend says they
 > realize this will cause and uproar and theyve planned for it. There
 > will be big holes in the schedules of all the stations that will need
 > to be filled ASAP. they also have a contingency plan for how the
 > staffs might react (strike?) and how listeners in NY and Berkeley
 > will take it.
 >
 >         This now is mostly speculation but my friend said they may
 > just jack david corn in starting on thursday morning to start hosting
 > "Democracy Now" from washington or they might play repeats of Amy for
 > a week or so.
 >
 > ------- End of forwarded message -------
 >
 > 	http://savewbai.tao.ca
 >
 >
 > 	To unsubscribe from this list
 > 	email lists@... with: unsubscribe savewbai
 > 	or visit http://lists.tao.ca


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Post ID:1952
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-10 17:06:40
Subject:PEOPLES' HOUSING - Bombay to Newark
Message:

~PLEASE FOWARD TO ANY INTERESTED PARTIES~

***********************************************************************
People's Housing:  From Bombay to Newark

An Exhibition and Forum at the New Jersey School of Architecture at NJIT in
Newark.


The United Nations, in June of 2001, hosted an international gathering of
Delegates, Officials, and Peoples' Organizations to review the UN Center for
Human Settlements' "Habitat-Istanbul 5" Agenda for Housing.  It was in
Newark where local students, volunteers and activists joined with delegates
from India, South Africa, UK and USA to construct an exhibit for the
International Slum Dwellers' Federation (an organization for and by the
people living in slums around the world) and then installed it at the UN
Headquarters in New York City.  Kofi Anan, the UN Secretary General, in his
visit, emphasized the importance of this endeavor as a significant part of a
participatory process by which peoples' groups around the world are working
towards their own habitat.  Now, this extraordinary exhibit, consisting of a
full-size model house and community toilet, as conceived and designed by
this poor peoples' collective, has been moved back to Newark at the NJ
School of Architecture at NJIT.  We intend to use this as a backdrop to
initiate a broad and constructive dialogue about peoples' housing locally,
while learning from this innovative, international movement.

A public exhibition opening and reception will take place on (Tentatively)
Wednesday, September 12, 6:30 PM at the NJSOA Gallery.  This is to be
followed by a forum for affordable housing in Newark, on Saturday, Sept. 25
at 11AM at the same venue.  Your participation and input is valuable in
shaping the forum discussion.  Also, if you are involved in a related
project, and would like to contribute to this effort, feel free to bring
forth plans, models, images, etc. to enhance the event. We look forward to
your response.

Matthew Smith, Student
NJ School Of Architecture NJIT,
(973) 824-2949  vivaohio@...

Makrand Bhoot, Director
(-P-A-T-H-) Professional Alliance for technology of Habitation
(973) 848-0688  makrand@...



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1953
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-10 20:57:42
Subject:june14 melee p.1
Message:

http://www.injersey.com/news/backstories.pl?paper=2&id=427915

Police Briefs -- 08.03.01

   Published in the Home News Tribune 8/03/01

               Middlesex County

TWO MEMBERS OF New Brunswick's Anti-Crime Unit were patrolling Throop Avenue 
on June 14 when someone yelled out "narcos," authorities said.

So, the officers pulled into a driveway, where a dice game was being played. 
And as they did, a man bolted, authorities said.

The cops gave chase, but the man ran into an apartment, and eventually a 
crowd of 30 or 40 people gathered around the officers.

The cops called for backup, and three men in that crowd were arrested, said 
Assistant Middlesex County Prosecutor Martha McKinney. Yesterday, a grand 
jury handed up an indictment against them, she said.

Kevin Johnson, 20, his brother, Tyshon Johnson, 18, and Clifton Jones, 22, 
who allegedly argued and fought with the officers, are facing charges of 
riot and resisting arrest.

               -- Michelle Sahn

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1954
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-12 01:18:55
Subject:Fwd: Pacifica Campaign News
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: Juan Gonzalez <pacificacampaign@...>
To: Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...>
Subject: Pacifica Campaign News
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:58:42 -0400

August 10, 2001

To All Supporters of the Pacifica Campaign:

The systematic harassment by Pacifica management against Amy Goodman
and her national news show, Democracy Now!, which began more than one
year ago, has reached a crisis stage.

On August 2nd, Steve Yasko, the director of national programming,
ordered Amy in an official memo to stop signing off each day with the
words she has used since the infamous "Christmas Coup" of last year:
"From the embattled studios of WBAI, from the studios of the banned and
the fired, from the studios of our listeners. I'm Amy Goodman, thanks
for listening to another edition of Democracy Now!"

Yasko had been pressuring Amy verbally for weeks to discontinue the
sign-off, but she has steadfastly refused his demands as an overt
attempt to censor her work. Amy maintains that from a journalistic
viewpoint her words are an accurate reflection of the reality at WBAI,
where interim station manger Utrice Leid has been conducting a
dictatorial purge and a reign of terror against staff, volunteers and
listeners who object to her policies. Amy has told management that she
will gladly end the sign-off when they stop the banning and the firing,
but to remain silent would compromise her integrity.

When Amy continued to use the slogan the next day, Yasko notified her
in writing that she was guilty of "deliberate insubordination" and her
union representative told her that she could be fired at any moment.

Early this week, Yasko came to New York from Washington and was at the
WBAI station moments before Amy and her staff were about to begin a
live broadcast of DN!. With Yasko looking on, Leid ordered the DN!
staff out of the station's main studio and made them broadcast from an
inferior sub-studio, one without a clock and terrible phone lines.

The national show, the most popular and acclaimed in the history of the
network, has now been permanently relegated to this sub-studio without
any explanation by either Leid or Yasko as to why.

In addition, the expensive new security and surveillance system
installed by Leid in recent weeks has created a virtual fascist
atmosphere at WBAI. Not only must every employee use a card key to
enter the station, but Leid has mandated that each card key be
programmed so that they provide access to the station for only certain
time periods -- typically one hour before a producer's show begins and
one hour after it concludes. Amy and the other employees cannot gain
entrance to the station at other times unless Leid approves it.

Even major capitalist corporations don't have such stringent security
access and so many surveillance cameras. The work environment at WBAI
today more resembles the Pentagon and the CIA than a radical, community
radio station. In addition, the open hostility against Amy by Leid's
loyal followers at the station has reached the point where some have
taken to shouting her down at staff meetings and physically
intimidating her to leave. Amy's written complaints to Pacifica
management about racist and sexist remarks made by Leid and her
loyalists, and the violent undercurrent, are routinely ignored. Her
complaints about Leid's sabotaging of Democracy Now! by denying Amy's
team access to the main studios have gone unanswered.

Pacifica management has the gall to periodically ask listeners to
donate money to support Democracy Now! while it is doing everything
possible to make life impossible for the program and its staff. The
reason for this contradictory stance is simple -- Amy, like many past
and present employees at Pacifica -- refuses to go along with steady
destruction of independent programming, free speech and progressive
news coverage at the network. And precisely because Democracy Now! is
so popular, Leid, Yasko and network director Bessie Wash, are
determined to set an example by breaking her.

It is amazing that she has managed to survive and continue producing a
quality daily show under such conditions. But no one should have to
tolerate such harassment.

In recent weeks, Leid has fired, suspended or banned a new group of
WBAI producers, among them Polk Award winning journalist Robert Knight,
and producers Bob Lederer and Kathy Davis, and more firings are bound
to occur. Just as we in the Pacifica Campaign have warned, Leid, Wash
and the corporate clique are seeking to create a macabre new reality on
the ground while they desperately attempt to hold off the listeners'
intifada for democracy.

This new round of "assassinations" by this renegade clique only
reflects how rabid they are becoming the closer they get to defeat.

We don't know what the coming week will bring for Democracy Now!, but
we do know that the systematic harassment has become intolerable for
Amy and her staff. We urge you to call and/or e-mail Bessie Wash,
Utrice Leid and Ken Ford, the vice-chair of the Pacifica Board, as well
as other Board members. You can get their contact information on the
Pacifica Campaign web site at (See below). Tell them to stop the
harassment of Amy immediately. Be civil, but be firm and insistent. And
while you're at it, tell Ken Ford to read the handwriting on the wall.
Pacifica is not his plaything. It is a peoples' institution and a
public trust. His time is up and he should resign.

Venceremos,

Juan Gonzalez

************************

CONTACT INFO

Stop the Harassment of Democracy Now!

WBAI Acting GM Utrice Leid
Tel: 212-209-2800/2820  Fax: 212-747-1698
E-mail: uleid@...

Pacifica Executive Director Bessie Wash
Tel: 202-588-0999 x 348 or 888-770-4944 x348
Fax: 202-588-0561
E-mail: bmwpacifica@...

Pacifica Board Vice Chair Ken Ford
Tel: 202-822-0228  Fax: 202-822-0369
E-mail: kenfordpacifica@..., kford@...

Pacifica Board member Wendell L. Johns
Tel: 202-752-5355  Fax: 202-752-4281
E-mail: wendell_L_johns@...

Pacifica Board member Valrie Chambers
Tel: 361-825-6012  Fax: 281-655-0266
E-mail: Valrie.Chambers@..., valriechambers@...



Cut the below list of email addresses, paste it into the To: line of
your email composition form. Also go to:
http://www.progressiveportal.org/letters/pacifica/resign/

Bmwpacifica@..., uleid@..., kford@...,
KenFordPacifica@..., jmurdock@...,
wendell_L_johns@..., Alfigo@..., valriechambers@...,
Valrie.Chambers@..., pacificacampaign@...


*********************
The Pacifica Campaign is a grass-roots organization representing listeners 
and staff alike, fighting to preserve Pacifica's 50-year tradition of 
progressive, community-based radio. For more info to to: 
http://www.pacificacampaign.org

Pacifica Campaign
51 MacDougal St., #80
New York, NY  10012
(646) 230-9588


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1955
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-12 10:18:31
Subject:[BRC-NEWS] Interview with Ken Riley/ILWU
Message:

Check out interview below for ILWU on Confederate Flag, Republican Agenda, 
'Charleston 5', Labor/Civil Rights Coalition....



Subject: [poprogress] Fwd: [BRC-NEWS] An Interview with Ken Riley
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:00:42 -0400

Info on the Charleston 5.


From: Michael Honey <mhoney@...>
To: brc-news@...
Subject: [BRC-NEWS] An Interview with Ken Riley
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 05:02:07 -0400 (EDT)

August 9, 2001

An Interview with Ken Riley

By Michael Honey <mhoney@...>

	On July 19, International Longshoremen's Association
(ILA) Local 1422 President Ken Riley, of Charleston, South
Carolina, spoke at a rally held in the parking lot of Local
19, International Longshore and Warehouse Union, in Seattle.
Hundreds of longshore workers and union supporters turned
out. That night, Riley spoke again at a community rally in
the ILWU Local 23 hall in Tacoma. All up and down the west
coast, the ILWU has rallied support for the Charleston Five,
and 5,000 rallied on their behalf in Charleston June 9. The
National Education Association (2.6 million members) and the
AFL-CIO have come out strongly in support of the Charleston
Five, five black workers who were beaten up and then
arrested by state troopers in January 2000.

	ILA members had been picketing a Danish company
named Nordana, which tried to bust the solidly unionized
Port of Charleston by using non-union labor at half the
wages paid to union members. State Attorney General Charlie
Condon, who chaired the George Bush campaign in the state
and is planning to run for Governor, sent in six hundred
troopers in riot gear, who clubbed Riley on the head (the
wound took twelve stitches) and provoked a confrontation.
Although the courts threw out charges of inciting to riot
against the workers for lack of evidence, Condon, who says
he is protecting "the right to work," got a grand jury
indictment and is trying to bolster South Carolina's
anti-union climate by punishing black workers, the most
organized group in the state. These five men have been under
house arrest for 18 months, from 7 pm to 7 am. They can't go
to rallies nor travel out of state without violating the
terms of their bond. "This is to send a very chilling
message to every worker in South Carolina, to say that if
something should happen on a picket line, you are going to
be prosecuted to the full extent of the law," Riley told the
rally. The men could get five years in prison on charges of
inciting a riot. The state also sued 27 other union workers
for civil damages.

	The case has provoked tremendous labor solidarity.
Spanish dockworkers refused to cooperate with Nordana until
it hired union labor in Charleston, which it now has, and
the ILWU has raised over a hundred thousand dollars and is
threatening to shut down the ports if the case goes to trial
this September. Longshore workers see the case as an opening
attack on organized dockworkers similar to those that took
place in Liverpool and Australia, and a first attempt to
break up the agreements Harry Bridges and others negotiated
with port authorities in the 1960s, by turning containerized
freight over to non-union labor. Bill Fletcher of the
AFL-CIO calls it a blatant attempt to intimidate black
workers who are increasingly organizing the South. There are
three separate locals in the Charleston port, of black dock
workers, white checkers and clerks, and white and black
mechanics. They have all joined together to stop union
busting. Four of the Charleston Five are black, one is
white.

	Mike Honey, the Harry Bridges Chair of Labor Studies
at the University of Washington, conducted the following
interview with Ken Riley at the Local 23 ILWU headquarters
in Seattle. For more from the Harry Bridges Center for Labor
Studies, see the web site at:

http://depts.washington.edu/pcls/Center_for_labor_studies.htm

*************************************************************

HONEY: Could you tell us a little about the history of your
local?

RILEY: Our deep sea local was formed in 1936. We have two
white members. The clerks and checkers local, on the other
hand, is all white. The first blacks are just now trying to
make their way into that local. That's the way its been
throughout the history of the South, most of your southern
ports were like this. And like you say, its's not by
accident, blacks were recruited to do the hard,
back-breaking tasks on the waterfront. Right after the Civil
War, blacks formed the longshore protective association in
Charleston, so blacks were somewhat organized, but it's not
until 1936 that they joined the ILA (International
Longshoremen's Association).

HONEY: Are these attacks on your union something that's
happened before, or is this something new?

RILEY: The attacks on us today are a direct result of our
awakening to the fact that we do have responsibilities that
extend beyond our membership, but to their families, their
community, and to our state. When we recognize the problems
plaguing us, and geting involved in local and state
government, that's when we then become a target. We are
supposed to stay in our places. As long as we were being
quiet and dormant, focusing only on our work, we were ok.
But when you get involved, you are singled out in our state.
Especially in a state where unions are not welcomed, where
there's open hostility toward you. It's not a subtle thing,
it's not a hidden thing.

When the Republican Party can announce that the two top
items on their agenda for the year 2000 was number one,
education, and number two, to rid the state of labor unions
and union influence in state government, you know it's open
season. It's not something you have to wonder about. You
know they are against unions. You have the state Chamber of
Commerce boasting that "we are the most powerful in the
country, because we can in fact write our own legislation."
Big business controls the state, through the state Chamber
of Commerce. Since all this foreign capital started coming
into our state and into the South, the state Chamber now
solely focuses on the multi-national corporation and their
agenda. They carry forth their agenda, to the extent that
the small to mid-size businesses, their goals and their
agendas are no longer being looked at. They're now looking
at forming a new chamber for the small and mid-size
businesses. The BMW, the Michelins, German capital, they are
coming to the South.

HONEY: They're looking for low-paying, non-union labor, in a
"right to work" state.

RILEY: Absolutely. Promoting low-paying jobs. Right now
we're about 4.2 percent organized in South Carolina. A
couple years ago we were 3.8 percent. When unions started to
organize more in the last couple years, a grass-roots alert
went out to all the businesses that union activities are on
the rise, beware. They started holding seminars of how to
bust unions, defeat a union campaign. When we began to hear
about these seminars, we decided we were going to join the
State Chamber of Commerce, to make it uncomfortable for them
to talk about labor unions the way they are. We applied for
membership twice and paid the fees... They said our
philosophy was not the same as theirs. They told us they
were about enhancing the quality of life for all the
citizens, and we said we can agree with that! The union runs
a hiring hall, and therefore is an employer, one that goes
along with fair employment standards, but they denied us
membership.

HONEY: There have been a lot of struggles in South Carolina
around the Confederate flag. Are the civil rights forces now
coalescing around the Charleston Five?

RILEY: Yes they are, because we were very actively involved
in that campaign to take down the flag. We were there at the
rally, we took buses, we sent cooks to feed people, when the
Mayor of Charleston called for a 125-mile march to the
Capitol in Columbia, we pledged forty men a day and we put
them there. So the NAACP, and the South Carolina Progressive
Network, made up of forty different groups, supported us.
The Network were in fact co-sponsors of that rally we had
the other day to support the Charleston Five.

HONEY: Dr. King always talked about the need for a
labor-civil rights coalition.

RILEY: There must be, there must be. Our goal is to build
that and make it stronger. Before I took office four years
ago, it was pretty much non-existent. We've got a lot of
resources, we are one of the wealthiest locals in the state.
We have this big meeting hall, and I can remember they used
to charge groups to use it. I'm saying to myself, how do you
measure the value of allowing someone to use your facilities
against a forty-dollar light bill for that night? I say
forget about that forty dollars. I'd get more out of
building this relationship by having them come in and use
our facilities. We'll pay the forty dollars. We started
opening our doors almost every night of the week to some
organization, the NAACP, the Progressive Network, United
Citizens Party, the Democratic Party, CAFE (Carolina
Alliance for Fair Employment), student groups. That way we
started to form this coalition with the community. Now we
have to build a new hall because of a bridge that is coming
through, and we have spent an extra million and-a-half
dollars to develop a community wing. We could have gone out
somewhere on the outskirts of town and gotten a pretty
reasonable property, but we'd rather stay in the center of
the community.

HONEY: What's your projection for the future of this
labor-civil rights coalition? That's what Dr. King was
asking, when is the civil rights struggle going to move into
the economic issues?

RILEY: Sometimes something has to happen like this for
everyone to wake up and realize it is time to get together.
I have to fly the red eye plane back on Sunday because the
ministers have called a meeting to see how they can weigh in
on this situation with the state government and say look, we
represent X amount of people in this state, from Catholics
to Protestants, and we want this kind of injustice to stop.
It's been a tough time waking people up, but I think it's
starting to happen. Sometimes things happen and you don't
recognize right away what this is going to mean. Certainly
we didn't think it would have meant all of this when we were
out there that night getting our heads bashed in. But it
didn't take long to realize the community was there. Within
three days State Senator Robert Ford called for a rally in
our hall and it was packed. That was what we received
because we had opened our doors to the civil rights
community.

HONEY: Did you have a civil rights background before you got
active in the union?

RILEY: No. Believe it or not, I trained in business
management, and I took every single management course at the
College of Charleston. I did seven years over there,
Business Administration. I did my senior paper on the social
responsibility of management. I just took that over to the
union side, the social responsibility of unions to the
community. My father was a longshoreman, second generation,
so while I was in college I would still go down there and
work. After graduation, I wanted to stay in Charleston, and
while I was waiting for some opportunities to present
themselves in Charleston, I thought, hey, I'd go down and
work on the docks. But after working two or three weeks
full-time on the docks, I knew I wasn't going anywhere. And
within one year I was elected to the executive board, and
I've been involved ever since.

Copyright (c) 2001 Michael Honey. All Rights Reserved.


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1956
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-08-13 13:45:50
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: N.H. Man Charged With Hate Crime
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....



/-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\


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\----------------------------------------------------------/

N.H. Man Charged With Hate Crime

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS



Filed at 10:38 a.m. ET

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) -- A man accused of fatally beating a Laotian
neighbor, claiming that ``Asians killed my brother and uncle in
Vietnam,'' has been charged with a hate crime, authorities said
Monday.

Richard Labbe, 35, was indicted on two counts of second-degree
murder in the death of Thung Phetakoune at the apartment complex in
Newmarket where they both lived. Police gave the victim's age as 62
but his son said he was in his 70s.

The Rockingham County grand jury indictment charged that racism
motivated the July 14 attack.

According to police, Labbe had just gotten an eviction notice and
was arguing with another tenant when Phetakoune approached.

``So you like to kill Americans, why don't you try to kill me?''
Labbe's teen-age son told police he heard his father yell.

Labbe told police he pushed Phetakoune after the older man hit him
in the face, but the son and other witnesses said Phetakoune never
touched him. The victim struck his head as he fell and died two
days later.

``Those Asians killed my brother and uncle in Vietnam, call it
payback,'' police say Labbe told them. ``If you're not going to do
anything about these Asians in my country, then I will.''

Labbe did have an uncle who served in Vietnam, but he returned home
unharmed, according to Labbe's father. And Phetakoune was forced
from his homeland of Laos in the 1970s because he had fought
alongside American soldiers in the Vietnam War.

Labbe's father blamed alcohol for his son's
actions.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Laotian-Killed.html?ex=998724750&ei=1&en=62a59ff66c7135ae

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updated throughout the day.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1957
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-08-13 18:29:00
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: Slave Traders in Yale's Past Fuel Debate on Restitution
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by cliffsmith69@....



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Slave Traders in Yale's Past Fuel Debate on Restitution

By KATE ZERNIKE

As Yale University celebrates 300 years of what it calls its
"long history of activism in the face of slavery," three
Yale scholars said that the university relied on slave-trading
money for its first scholarsh ips and endowments

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/13/nyregion/13YALE.html?ex=998741739&ei=1&en=ce42086cd4424309

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updated throughout the day.

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---------------------------------
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or other creative advertising opportunities with The 
New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson 
Racer at alyson@... or visit our online media 
kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo

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Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1958
Sender:amirib@...
Post Date/Time:2001-08-13 22:06:15
Subject:Re: black nation
Message:

I thiink there is an erroneous absence of South Carolina


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1959
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-18 20:43:58
Subject:smash schundler.
Message:

WOMEN�S DEFENSE-
SMASH SCHUNDLER!
Defend Women�s Reproductive Rights Now!
Waste Sexist/Racist Republicans!
Organize to Defeat Schundler & Promote McGreasy for Governor

Come to the next Peoples� Campaign meeting
Saturday, August 25  1:00pm
NB Public Library
Register NJ to Vote!
Contact Sisterhood & Struggle Tamara 732.729.0390

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1961
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-18 22:15:11
Subject:higher...
Message:

Here is the poem I am supposed to be doing tommorrow
that you should of had by now , the 1st line is always
the same and between each word grouping I will take
two breaths:

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
all the planes in the air
that dare
to cut holes through clouds
as they travel swiftly thousands of miles

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
the words that floated off the tongue
of Dr. Martin Luther King
Let freedom Ring, Let Freedom ring

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
being billy clubbed and bullet beat
by white racist cops in the streets
God have mercy on them not me
cause they lynching me - see
and I'm about to rise up
Unless they leave me be!

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
nigga coon nigga nigga coon coon
blacky sambo midnight nigga
being everybodys stooge
everybodys Amos and Andy fool

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
Any church steeple
that wants to cripple my people
take away they fight
break them on they knees
keeping them paralyzed searching for light

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
those white lines
that pierce through my nose
and razor cut through my life
and divide my people
as I just get high

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
the needle in my veins
shaking up my brain
as my spirit gets drained
and i go insane

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
thw wild and crazy street gangs
that give me colors and a name
as the bullets fight to win another stripe
aiming for my heart, to take my life
as my mommas eyes well up with tears
as the game - takes away my future years

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
being the bamboozled clown
with a suit and a noose
around my neck
striving to make white corporate friends
as a mends to my own insecurities
to get that all American check

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
I don't know who I am in the scheme of things
in the Massa don't beat me plaese of things

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
the 40 acres and a mule
white lie of things
the I am only fit for the consumption by a "higher
class" animalistic way of things

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
the white snob attitude of
"don't you know how much we've done for you"
like I am just some black ass ingrate
with no clue to what they really want to do

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
my blood running through the cracks of the sidewalk
as my body gets tossed
into the 6 feet deep battle hole
Let my people go! Let my people go!

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
this beautiful chocolate skin
smooth walk, cool talk, brown eyes
healthy thighs, rich hips, and full lips

I wanna go 2 breaths higher than
all of the bullshit
and the boot lick ing
that has exhausted me
I am demanding to be set Free!

I wanna fly 2 breaths higher than my last breath
2 breaths higher than the stars
that hang a million stories above the wings of birds
-I wanna go higher than all these words
I wanna go higher!

Rain




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1962
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-20 15:52:57
Subject:Fwd: KPFA - KPFK - KPFT - WBAI - WPFW: The Pacifica Radio Network
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: MHF/PMI <mhf1982@...>
To: mhf1982@...
Subject: KPFA - KPFK - KPFT - WBAI - WPFW: The Pacifica Radio Network
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:15:19 -0700

YOU HELPED BUILD IT.  WILL YOU HELP SAVE IT?

Amy Goodman had bwalking around the station at WBAI with a mask over her
face to protest surveillance cameras installed by Pacifica management.
As of today, WBAI is re-broadcasting Amy's old programs rather than play
new programs she made at a different location where she felt safer.

If you think this is outrageous, there�s something you can do. The
Committee to Remove Pacifica Board (CRPB) and its Listeners� Lawsuit
legal team have researched and built their case against Pacifica for
over two years. Now they are ready to take depositions from all major
participants. This will cost an estimated $250,000 and they need your
help.

THE LISTENERS� LAWSUIT, IF SUCCESSFUL, WILL:

remove board members who have abused their authority violated their own
rules of operation, and wasted listener funds � give listener-sponsors
voting rights � recover damages from individual directors for any
misappropriation of funds � amend the bylaws and elect new directors.

WHY DID LISTENER-SPONSORS GO TO COURT?

The Pacifica Foundation Board of Directors, which holds legal title to
the network's assets and licenses, has relentlessly abused its
authority. They censored and fired programmers and locked out station
staff. They fired their controller of twenty years and denied five board
members access to financial information. They refused to testify before
state and federal investigative bodies. Celebrities,
nationally-respected progressives, and elected officials have talked to
them. Listeners like you demonstrated, wrote thousands of letters, and
filled their phone lines. Now the Board has hired two of Washington
D.C.�s most high-powered law firms to fight listener-sponsors in court
while they continue to destroy the network.

Amy needs decent working conditions to produce Democracy Now! The people
of Houston, Texas need local news reporting. KPFA listeners need to know
their station will not be compromised or sold. We all need the Pacifica
Radio Network to remain independent, commercial-free, and
listener-sponsored.

WHY THE MARIN HEALTH FUND/PUBLIC MEDIA INITIATIVE IS INVOLVED

A founding purpose of the MHF is to protect civil and economic rights of
the general public. MHF has focused on protecting local control of
public assets and created the Public Media Initiative to protect this
important public forum. Of three lawsuits against Pacifica, only the
CRPB Listeners' Lawsuit seeks local democratic membership control of
Pacifica. Membership control can � give listener-sponsors voting rights
� elect responsive, accountable board members whose vision and guidance
will rebuild Pacifica into the national treasure it is � sustain the
future of the Pacifica Network. MHF is raising funds through efforts
such as this letter to continue providing grants to the CRPB. The
Internal Revenue Service has ruled that the MHF is a 501(c)(3)
tax-exempt organization. Donations are tax-deductible to the extent
permitted by law.

Together we can raise the money, win this legal case, and rebuild the
Pacifica Radio Network. Please send as much as you can. Today.

HOW YOU CAN HELP  $5,000  $1,000  $500  $100  A Day�s Pay Other

� Send your check payable to Marin Health Fund/Public Media Initiative,
Box 5402, Mill Valley, CA 94942.

� Call 415-522-9955 to donate appreciated stock.

� Donate on the Internet:
http://www.guidestar.org/helping/donate.adp?ein=94-2860344.

To find out more about the Marin Health Fund / Public Media Initiative,
visit our website:
http://www.marinhealthfund.org.

In addition, we are listed at the national registry of charitable
organizations:
http://www.helping.org/charity

To stay informed about the suit, visit CRPB at:
http://home.pon.net/wildrose/remove.htm
or e-mail Carol Spooner at wildrose@....
If you do not need a tax-deduction for your gift consider giving
directly to the CRPB.





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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1963
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-20 16:00:36
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Pacifica Campaign Comedy Benefit
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: CFNJ-Communications <siddharta5@...>
To: friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Pacifica Campaign Comedy Benefit
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:46:25 -0700 (PDT)

 > COMEDY BENEFIT
 >
 > for the
 >
 > Tulia 46 Relief Fund & the Pacifica Campaign
 >
 > Tuesday, Aug. 28th   9 PM  - �til ?? at
 >
 > Caroline�s
 > 1626 Broadway (between 49th & 50th)
 >
 > with
 >
 > Grandpa Al Lewis, Barry Crimmins, Leanne Lord,
 >
 > Prof. Irwin Corey, Randy Credico, Scott Blakeman,
 >
 > Rafi d�Lugoffi,
 >
 > A new 23-minute video by Sarah and Emily Kunstler:
 >
 > Tulia, Texas: Scenes from the Drug War
 >
 > an appeal by the "NY Mothers Of The Disappeared"
 >
 > info: 646-230-9588  pacificacampaign.org  kunstler.org
 >
 > **********************************************
 > Mailing Address:
 > The Pacifica Campaign
 > 51 MacDougal St., #80
 > New York, NY  10012
 > Tel: (646) 230-9588
 >
 > http://www.pacificacampaign.org
 > pacificacampaign@...
 > C
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1964
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-20 23:02:45
Subject:proposal
Message:

proposal to nbpeoplescampaign.
to be voted sat., 8/25


the objective of the nbpeoplescampaign is peoples' democracy and political 
power.

this objective is expressed in the community's slogans: "put people first!", 
"community control!", & "unite, organize, seize power!"

as allies the nbpc has the democratic forces of the peoples.

as enemies the nbpc has the representatives of monopoly capital/imperialism.

the nbpc will make strategic alliances w/all democratic forces & tactical 
alliances w/all democratic tendencies.

the strategy of the peoples campaign is principally to challenge in winnable 
elections for peoples' representation.  &to pin the democratic party on the 
republican party in those elections in which we cannot yet win.

immediately, this means to support ras baraka for nwk council, may '02.  to 
smash schundler! keep mcgreasy in the fire! in nov. '01.  then to take nb 
elected school board, mayor & 2council seats in nov. 02.  also to develop in 
hp &elsewhere.

all alliances w/ republican representatives &positions by nbpc leadership 
were/are anti-democratic deviations at the peoples' expense.  one cannot 
simultaneously uphold the republican party platform & peoples' democracy.  
the nbpc must establish itself on an uncompromising democratic basis w/ 
uncompromising democratic leadership.

all nbpc officers who fail to fully criticize &correct these backward 
schemes &methods must be immediately replaced.  nominations shd be taken 
immediately for steering committee &campaign chair, to be voted in sept. 
mtg.

cliff smith
student/worker organization for revolutionary democracy
8/20




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1965
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-21 15:41:46
Subject:Fwd: UPDATE - Committee to Remove the Pacifica Board
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Carol Spooner" <wildrose@...>
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Subject: UPDATE - Committee to Remove the Pacifica Board
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:45:20 -0700

August 20, 2001

WEDNESDAY COURT DATE RE "DEMOCRACY NOW!"

Dear All,
     As you all know, for many months now Amy Goodman and the staff of
"Democracy Now!" have been subjected to a campaign of harassment and
threats, including a recent physical assault, by WBAI interim station
manager Utrice Leid, and other WBAI staff members, as well as Pacifica's
National Program Director Steve Yasko, and the Executive Director Bessie
Wash.  The object of this campaign has clearly been either to drive Amy into
quitting or into a position where she could be fired for insubordination.
     This campaign against Amy has been conducted with the full knowledge of
the Pacifica board of directors, who despite repeated requests from Amy
Goodman, her lawyers, and from the five "dissident directors", have taken no
action and have permitted the harassment to continue.
     As a result of these conditions, the Democracy Now! staff no longer 
felt
safe at the WBAI studios and, last week, began producing the program from a
remote location and sending it to Pacifica by highspeed ISDN telephone
lines.  It should be noted that other Pacifica programs, including the
popular Gary Null show, are remotely produced and delivered to WBAI and
Pacifica over ISDN lines.  However, Pacifica has refused to broadcast the
remote Democracy Now! program or to provide it to the 50 or so Pacifica
Affiliate stations who purchase the program from Pacifica, and has been
broadcasting re-runs from the Democracy Now! archives.  KPFA and a few
Pacifica Affiliate stations have independently obtained the ISDN feed and
have broadcast the current Democracy Now! "in exile" programs.
     It should be noted that AFTRA, the union for Pacifica's national 
program
staff, after tense negotiations last week and over the weekend, has ordered
Amy and her staff back to work at the WBAI studios.  Fearing for their
safety, the Democracy Now! staff has refused to go.
     We hope those of you with union connections will express your dismay 
and
displeasure in writing to AFTRA for failing in their duty to fairly
represent of Amy Goodman and the Democracy Now! staff.
     Because of our concern over the irreparable harm to the Pacifica
Foundation should Democracy Now! be lost to the network, the plaintiffs in
the pending lawsuits in California Superior Court last June negotiated a
"stipulated court order" requiring Pacifica to give 30 days notice prior to
taking any action regarding Democracy Now!.  We believe the defendants have
violated that stipulation, and our lawyers will go to Court on Wednesday
this week seeking an emergency order enforcing the stipulation and requiring
Pacifica and all its stations to broadcast Democracy Now! as produced from
its remote location.
     While Pacifica may be free under their union contracts to harass and
intimidate staff members and force them to work in an unsafe and hostile
work environment (which we do not believe), we believe Pacifica is not free
to do so under their separate stipulation with us, which is not based upon
the union contract, but upon our interest in preserving the financial health
and the good will and reputation of the Pacifica Foundation until trial,
when we hope to remove the board majority for breach of trust and gross
abuse of their authority and discretion or fraud or dishonest acts.
     I'll let you know how the judge rules!

Thanks for your continued financial support, we couldn't do this without
you!

Carol Spooner
Committee to Remove the Pacifica Board
(sponsoring the "listeners' lawsuit")
web page:  http://home.pon.net/wildrose/remove.htm
###
"The uprising of the soul will replace the reformer with the rebel, the
negotiator with the defender of justice, the prevaricator with the honest
citizen, the diplomat with the radical."  -- Sam Smith (www.prorev.com)

###

Important -- We can't do this without you! Contributions to our legal fund
can be made payable to:

Committee to Remove the Pacifica Board
1136 Wild Rose Drive
Santa Rosa, CA 95401.

To contribute on-line through Paypal go to http://www.paypal.com/.  You will
need to give them our email address:  wildrose@....

Your gift to the Committee is NOT tax deductible, but your support of the
cause of free speech radio is invaluable. Question, details? Call or email
Carol Spooner, (707) 526-2867, wildrose@... Thank you!

Tax deductible gifts of $500 or more to support our legal action can be made
payable to our fiscal sponsor:

Marin Health Fund/Public Media Initiative
P.O. Box 5402
Mill Valley, CA 94942.

You will receive tax deduction receipt from them. Also, the MHF/Public Media
Initiative has a special account to receive gifts of stock in support of our
lawsuit. For details contact Linda Remy at mhf1982@....
Web Page:  www.marinhealthfund.org

###
This bulletin comes from the Committee to Remove the Pacifica Board
Web page:  http://home.pon.net/wildrose/remove.htm

to subscribe/unsubscribe email wildrose@...




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1966
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-21 16:57:54
Subject:Response to Rothenberg's on-air analysis of the fascist rule and WBAI
Message:

This is an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's 
support of Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush & 
the right stole the 2001 election.  Interesting, but one of David 
Rothenburg's main errors (similar to what we've heard from 
WBAI/naderites/greens since the X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead with 
Hitler (Lead is a bullying traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, but 
not a fascist & to call her a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 & 
Co.--though WBAI coup is certainly part of erotion of democracy in US), 
According to Rothenberg, the #1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, while 
Bush2/Republican/REAL FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of proper 
historic analysis) even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that WBAI's 
support of Nader helped throw the election to B2!!  There's a deep imbalance 
of perspective that needs to be corrected here in terms of the Green Party 
histortic role in 2001, causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and Rep's 
as no worse. (Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green voting 
base!! To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, suburban Montclair was there, but 
not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., let alone the working class 
from any town)  This same opportunism causes the P.B., esp. on the left, to 
think that only when it comes for THEM, then it's worthy of the name 
fascism!  Yet, how many more times will we hear many of the same people say, 
"It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real fascists) because it will 
only strengthen the resisitance"  Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar in 
the 1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending Amy Goodman 
& Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to this mess.

-Matthew Smith


----Original Message Follows----
From: CFNJ-Communications <siddharta5@...>
To: friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Transcript: Rothenberg's on-air analysis of the  
fascist rule  and WBAI
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 07:29:53 -0700 (PDT)

 > Dear Friends,
 >
 > David Rothenberg Saturday did an on-air analysis citing the similarities 
in
 > the rise of the Third Reich with what has happened at WBAI since the 
Christmas
 > Coup, including setting up a scapegoat and Leid's power hungry demands 
for
 > slavish loyalty with no criticism allowed.  He also commented on the 
security
 > system the likes of which he said he hadn't seen since he visited Sing 
Sing.
 > He also announced that he has been "summoned by the powers that be" for a
 > meeting later this week and doesn't expect to be on air much longer.
 >
 > Below is a transcript of his comparative analysis. Audio version is
 > on-line at
 > http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=3514
 >
 > ====================
 >
 > It's just about 10 o'clock on WBAI fm in New York,  99.5 listener-
 > sponsored radio. I'm David Rothenberg.
 >
 > From time to time I've cited William Shirer's book, "The Rise and
 > Fall of the Third Reich,"  as one of the most influential and
 > important books in my lifetime of reading. When I read it I was well
 > familiar with the horror stories, the endless atrocities committed by
 > the Nazis, but I wanted to understand all of the aspects which
 > permitted Hitler's rise to power - the historic precedents, the
 > political, the religious, psychological and economic climate which
 > saw a people allowing a tyrant to take on the world to satisfy some
 > peculiar sick need. And of course we have seen traces of that in
 > other parts of the world at other times, some successful, others
 > sputtering out in its infancy.
 >
 > During the Guiliani years, in all of the Guiliani years I've often cited
 > Shirer's book, only to be the recipient of sharp criticism mostly
 > saying that I besmirched the memory of holocaust victims by such
 > glib comparisons. I certainly didn't compare Guiliani's reign in New
 > York with the Final Solutions of Hitler, but if we're to learn anything
 > from the rise of Hitler, as Shirer outlines in his book, it's to
 > recognize the traits that exist when a tyrant takes over a country,
 > or a city, or a corporation, or a non-profit organization.
 >
 > What did I learn from "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich?"
 >
 > One, nearly every government or corporate enterprise has a
 > shadow ruling body: industrialists, or boards of directors, who work
 > behind the scenes. Who are the continuing power brokers. Who
 > want government to run smoothly, maintaining a sense of
 > democracy but always protecting the privileged and the powerful
 > and the controllers of the purse strings. They could be
 > manufacturers or real estate empire kings, or a board of directors.
 >
 > When there's a crisis, economic or a sense that control is being
 > lost, there's a political edge that emerges. Power brokers seek out
 > a strong personality to take control and put things back into shape.
 > Usually with a blank check, unless or until it gets out of hand.
 > Sometimes it goes way beyond what the industrialists need. That's
 > when bloodshed often happens.
 >
 > There's always a law and order personality in the crowd, someone
 > with deep psychological, sometimes pathological, needs to be
 > fulfilled to take charge and to be all-powerful.  History has recorded
 > such individuals and their rapid rise and their inevitable falls.
 >
 > If you follow the blueprint of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"
 > you discover that the rising tyrant needs a number of things in
 > place, all inter-related and to be acted upon together. Rhat would
 > be, one, a scapegoat or scapegoats. Two, a military or security
 > control, justified because of the alleged threats of the scapegoats.
 > Three, elimination of charismatic opposition, holders of a
 > democratic process.
 >
 > All of this is with the silent approval of the power brokers, the
 > economic controllers. We don't have to paint the picture that Hitler
 > and the Krupp empire drew, but look at Guiliani's administration.
 > The scapegoats were defined in a number of ways. It was clearly
 > perceived to be young, Black males. They were the police targets.
 > No nay-sayers were permitted in the Guiliani administration, and it
 > did not and has not represented the diversity of this city. And the
 > blockading off of City Hall reflected a bunker mentality.
 >
 > But our checks and balances, often through the courts, people
 > suing Guiliani, a reasonably free press and due process put a rein
 > on much of Guiliani's terror. But his inclinations were clear. It is
 > why he has frightened me.
 >
 > His fall from grace came when decent people responded to the
 > incredible cases of Louima, Diallo and the Dorsimond cases. And
 > then hizzoner's personal peccadilloes, the hypocrisy, the conflict
 > with his moral posturing.
 >
 > And then we come to the takeover of this station. A small blip in
 > the political scheme of things, but a voice that was heard with
 > much interest by the Democratic Party during the elections when
 > "too much" time was spent justifying third party realities. Pacifica
 > and WBAI, specifically WBAI, could be held responsible for
 > marginal voters going for Nader, throwing the election to Bush.
 >
 > With the former chair of the board closely tied to the outgoing
 > presidential administration and still the puller- of- strings at
 > Pacifica, serving two masters at the same time, or maybe serving
 > one master at the expense of the other. Three weeks after the
 > Supreme Court ruled that George Bush would be president, some
 > drastic changes took place at this little station in the middle of the
 > FM dial.
 >
 > A scapegoat was found: she the interviewer of Bill Clinton on
 > Election Day; she who had Ralph Nader as her partner during the
 > GOP convention. The charismatic people's voices were dismissed
 > without warning. Fired. Locked out. And the security system went
 > into place.
 >
 > And the sole criteria for being part of the decision-making is loyalty
 > to the chief. Talents long-abandoned or overlooked rose to the top,
 > just like Rudolph Hess in the Hitler years during the Third Reich.
 > For the sole measure of visibility or audibility was loyalty and
 > joining in the scapegoating.
 >
 > I have attempted to abide by the gag rule imposed on us, but when
 > I hear continual slander about my colleagues I feel that the gag rule
 > is tantamount to remaining silent during the rise of the Third Reich.
 > Amy Goodman has been verbally and now physically abused at
 > this station. Bernard White's name and professional skills have
 > been assaulted by persons who, quite candidly, can't hold a candle
 > to his talents.
 >
 > The interim manager of this station is irrationally obsessed by Amy
 > Goodman. Amy's reportorial skills, her large following and the
 > accolades she's received. Abuse of Amy is the sole criteria for a
 > place at the table at WBAI now, and slavish obedience is what is
 > expected. And I find all of that intolerable.
 >
 > It's all very confused, and never-defined motives are revealed as
 > power relished for itself. But always forgotten, for those who don't
 > know their history, is that every rise of a Third Reich is followed by
 > a fall.
 >
 > Stay tuned. Pay close attention.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > 	http://savewbai.tao.ca
 >
 >
 > 	To unsubscribe from this list
 > 	email lists@... with: unsubscribe savewbai
 > 	or visit http://lists.tao.ca


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1967
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-21 22:03:15
Subject:Fwd: Speedsters & Dopers go to Joisey!
Message:



>From: "Greg Di Gesu" <gregdig65@...>
>To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:@...;>
>Subject: Speedsters & Dopers go to Joisey!
>Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:26:58 -0400
>
>                             * Speedsters and Dopers *
>
>                                 This Friday, Aug. 24th
>
>                                          ~ 11PM ~
>
>                                               @
>                                   The Court Tavern
>                                     124 Church St.
>                                   New Brunswick, NJ
>                                       732.545.7265
>                                 (exit 9 - NJ Turnpike)
>
>                            *w/ The Crayons - 10PM
>                                  Spiral Jetty - 12 mid
>
>
>                               - a fabulous evening -
>
>
>
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1968
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-21 22:29:22
Subject:gliding baskets
Message:

Gliding Baskets

"Eight Six Foxtrot--Eight Six Foxtrot.
This is One One Zulu.  Over."

     The woman in blue
     Carried the weight swiftly, with grace,
     Her face was hidden by her
     Conical rice straw hat.

"One One Zulu--this is Eight Six Foxtrot.  Go."
"Roger Eight Six.  I have Fire Mission.
"Dink in the open, Grid: Bravo Sierra,
Five Six Niner, Four Six Five, Range:
Three thousand, Proximity: Eight hundred.  Over."

     The two heavy baskets
     Balanced on tips
     Of the springing Chogi stick
     Glided close to the hard smooth path.

"Read back, One One Zulu."
"Roger Copy, Eight Six."
"Shot, on the way, wait."
"Shot Out, Eight Six."

     A sighing 105mm round slides through its parabola
     Then the explosive tearing at the steel which surrounds it,
     And the shrapnel catches the gliding baskets,
     And they crumple with the woman in blue.

Frank A. Cross, Jr.
near An Trang
August 14, 1969

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1969
Sender:CFNJ-Communications <siddharta5@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-21 23:31:34
Subject:Re: Response to Rothenberg's on-air analysis of the fascist rule and WBAI
Message:

Friends,
This post was sent to the friends of wbai - NJ list which is not a discussion board but an
announcement board which I moderate.
I will not post it but will respond below as interspersed in CAPS:
Fred N. (NJ)
--- Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...> wrote:
> 
> This is an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's 
> support of Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush & 
> the right stole the 2001 election.

Reply: There has never been an endorsement of Ralph Nader by WBAI

  Interesting, but one of David 
> Rothenburg's main errors (similar to what we've heard from 
> WBAI/naderites/greens since the X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead with 
> Hitler (Lead is a bullying traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, but 
> not a fascist & to call her a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 & 
> Co.--though WBAI coup is certainly part of erotion of democracy in US), 
> According to Rothenberg, the #1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, while 
> Bush2/Republican/REAL FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of proper 
> historic analysis) even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that WBAI's 
> support of Nader helped throw the election to B2!!

Reply:  I did not listen to David Rothenberg's talk, where, by the way, he announces that he may
never return because he is likely to be fired for saying what he was saying.  I do agree with
David on the point that the methods used by Utrice Leid are common to the fascists (suppression of
speech, intimidation/public humiliation, false claims of theft/violence and constant personal
attacks.  U. Leid also installed an 8 camera audio-video serveillance system complete with
card-key entry system which makes Rykers Island look low tech.  I also agree that the Democratic
Party has betrayed the American working class and is now dominated by people who are doing the
bidding of very large corporations and global finance interests.  The fact that Amy Goodman
reported on Nader does not mean that WBAI was a station controlled by the Greens.

  There's a deep imbalance 
> of perspective that needs to be corrected here in terms of the Green Party 
> histortic role in 2001, causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and Rep's 
> as no worse. (Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green voting 
> base!! 

Reply:  The Dems are not a threat to the Greens, the Greens did not defeat Al Gore.  Al Gore and
the DNC and massive corporate-sponsored campaigning turned off voters and defeated Al Gore.  Half
of all registers don't vote.  Half a billion dollars worth of corporate contributions did not
change that.

To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, suburban Montclair was there, but 
> not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., let alone the working class 
> from any town)  This same opportunism causes the P.B., esp. on the left, to 
> think that only when it comes for THEM, then it's worthy of the name 
> fascism!

Reply:  Actually, Ralph Nader did have some very large popular rallies around the country that
were not covered by the mass medias.  It's a bitch to try to be prez without money and free
publicity from the corporate medias.  WBAI was doing what it's mission states:  air the voices of
dissent that are not presented anywhere else.  

Yet, how many more times will we hear many of the same people say, 
> "It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real fascists) because it will 
> only strengthen the resisitance"
Reply:  Someone said that?  Who? David Rothenberg?

  Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar in 
> the 1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending Amy Goodman 
> & Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to this mess.

Reply:  What led to this mess is the Corporation forPublic Broadcasting funding which allowed
board members from large corporations to be named to the Pacifica Board and a series of executives
with connections with the Clinton administration to take over Pacifica and undertake its
destruction.  David Rothenberg knows.  Al Lewis knows.  Bob Lederer, Robert Knight, Juan Gonzales,
Deepa Fernandes, Mimi Rosenberg, Verna Avery Brown, Mario Murillo, Ken Nash and Bernard White's
Wake Up Call's crew know.
The democratic party will not save us.  They are running the same national security state and
prison/military industrial complex with the same motives of fear, greed and hubris than their
republican friends.

Wake up Matt,  WBAI and Pacifica were the ALTERNATIVE RADIO.  After that, yes, the fascist state
will have silenced us and few Democrats will have said a thing.

Message Follows----
> From: CFNJ-Communications <siddharta5@...>
> To: friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Transcript: Rothenberg's on-air analysis of the  
> fascist rule  and WBAI
> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 07:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
> 
>  > Dear Friends,
>  >
>  > David Rothenberg Saturday did an on-air analysis citing the similarities 
> in
>  > the rise of the Third Reich with what has happened at WBAI since the 
> Christmas
>  > Coup, including setting up a scapegoat and Leid's power hungry demands 
> for
>  > slavish loyalty with no criticism allowed.  He also commented on the 
> security
>  > system the likes of which he said he hadn't seen since he visited Sing 
> Sing.
>  > He also announced that he has been "summoned by the powers that be" for a
>  > meeting later this week and doesn't expect to be on air much longer.
>  >
>  > Below is a transcript of his comparative analysis. Audio version is
>  > on-line at
>  > http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=3514
>  >
>  > ====================
>  >
>  > It's just about 10 o'clock on WBAI fm in New York,  99.5 listener-
>  > sponsored radio. I'm David Rothenberg.
>  >
>  > From time to time I've cited William Shirer's book, "The Rise and
>  > Fall of the Third Reich,"  as one of the most influential and
>  > important books in my lifetime of reading. When I read it I was well
>  > familiar with the horror stories, the endless atrocities committed by
>  > the Nazis, but I wanted to understand all of the aspects which
>  > permitted Hitler's rise to power - the historic precedents, the
>  > political, the religious, psychological and economic climate which
>  > saw a people allowing a tyrant to take on the world to satisfy some
>  > peculiar sick need. And of course we have seen traces of that in
>  > other parts of the world at other times, some successful, others
>  > sputtering out in its infancy.
>  >
>  > During the Guiliani years, in all of the Guiliani years I've often cited
>  > Shirer's book, only to be the recipient of sharp criticism mostly
>  > saying that I besmirched the memory of holocaust victims by such
>  > glib comparisons. I certainly didn't compare Guiliani's reign in New
>  > York with the Final Solutions of Hitler, but if we're to learn anything
>  > from the rise of Hitler, as Shirer outlines in his book, it's to
>  > recognize the traits that exist when a tyrant takes over a country,
>  > or a city, or a corporation, or a non-profit organization.
>  >
>  > What did I learn from "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich?"
>  >
>  > One, nearly every government or corporate enterprise has a
>  > shadow ruling body: industrialists, or boards of directors, who work
>  > behind the scenes. Who are the continuing power brokers. Who
>  > want government to run smoothly, maintaining a sense of
>  > democracy but always protecting the privileged and the powerful
>  > and the controllers of the purse strings. They could be
>  > manufacturers or real estate empire kings, or a board of directors.
>  >
>  > When there's a crisis, economic or a sense that control is being
>  > lost, there's a political edge that emerges. Power brokers seek out
>  > a strong personality to take control and put things back into shape.
>  > Usually with a blank check, unless or until it gets out of hand.
>  > Sometimes it goes way beyond what the industrialists need. That's
>  > when bloodshed often happens.
>  >
>  > There's always a law and order personality in the crowd, someone
>  > with deep psychological, sometimes pathological, needs to be
>  > fulfilled to take charge and to be all-powerful.  History has recorded
>  > such individuals and their rapid rise and their inevitable falls.
>  >
>  > If you follow the blueprint of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"
>  > you discover that the rising tyrant needs a number of things in
>  > place, all inter-related and to be acted upon together. Rhat would
>  > be, one, a scapegoat or scapegoats. Two, a military or security
>  > control, justified because of the alleged threats of the scapegoats.
>  > Three, elimination of charismatic opposition, holders of a
>  > democratic process.
>  >
>  > All of this is with the silent approval of the power brokers, the
>  > economic controllers. We don't have to paint the picture that Hitler
>  > and the Krupp empire drew, but look at Guiliani's administration.
>  > The scapegoats were defined in a number of ways. It was clearly
>  > perceived to be young, Black males. They were the police targets.
>  > No nay-sayers were permitted in the Guiliani administration, and it
>  > did not and has not represented the diversity of this city. And the
>  > blockading off of City Hall reflected a bunker mentality.
>  >
>  > But our checks and balances, often through the courts, people
>  > suing Guiliani, a reasonably free press and due process put a rein
>  > on much of Guiliani's terror. But his inclinations were clear. It is
>  > why he has frightened me.
>  >
>  > His fall from grace came when decent people responded to the
>  > incredible cases of Louima, Diallo and the Dorsimond cases. And
>  > then hizzoner's personal peccadilloes, the hypocrisy, the conflict
>  > with his moral posturing.
>  >
>  > And then we come to the takeover of this station. A small blip in
>  > the political scheme of things, but a voice that was heard with
>  > much interest by the Democratic Party during the elections when
>  > "too much" time was spent justifying third party realities. Pacifica
>  > and WBAI, specifically WBAI, could be held responsible for
>  > marginal voters going for Nader, throwing the election to Bush.
>  >
>  > With the former chair of the board closely tied to the outgoing
>  > presidential administration and still the puller- of- strings at
>  > Pacifica, serving two masters at the same time, or maybe serving
>  > one master at the expense of the other. Three weeks after the
>  > Supreme Court ruled that George Bush would be president, some
>  > drastic changes took place at this little station in the middle of the
>  > FM dial.
>  >
>  > A scapegoat was found: she the interviewer of Bill Clinton on
>  > Election Day; she who had Ralph Nader as her partner during the
>  > GOP convention. The charismatic people's voices were dismissed
>  > without warning. Fired. Locked out. And the security system went
>  > into place.
>  >
>  > And the sole criteria for being part of the decision-making is loyalty
>  > to the chief. Talents long-abandoned or overlooked rose to the top,
>  > just like Rudolph Hess in the Hitler years during the Third Reich.
>  > For the sole measure of visibility or audibility was loyalty and
>  > joining in the scapegoating.
>  >
>  > I have attempted to abide by the gag rule imposed on us, but when
>  > I hear continual slander about my colleagues I feel that the gag rule
>  > is tantamount to remaining silent during the rise of the Third Reich.
>  > Amy Goodman has been verbally and now physically abused at
>  > this station. Bernard White's name and professional skills have
>  > been assaulted by persons who, quite candidly, can't hold a candle
>  > to his talents.
>  >
>  > The interim manager of this station is irrationally obsessed by Amy
>  > Goodman. Amy's reportorial skills, her large following and the
>  > accolades she's received. Abuse of Amy is the sole criteria for a
>  > place at the table at WBAI now, and slavish obedience is what is
>  > expected. And I find all of that intolerable.
>  >
>  > It's all very confused, and never-defined motives are revealed as
>  > power relished for itself. But always forgotten, for those who don't
>  > know their history, is that every rise of a Third Reich is followed by
>  > a fall.
>  >
>  > Stay tuned. Pay close attention.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > 	http://savewbai.tao.ca
>  >
>  >
>  > 	To unsubscribe from this list
>  > 	email lists@... with: unsubscribe savewbai
>  > 	or visit http://lists.tao.ca
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
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> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
=== message truncated ===


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Post ID:1970
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-22 00:19:23
Subject:the revolutionary theatre
Message:

the revolutionary theatre
by amiri baraka
1964

The Revolutionary Theatre should force change; it should be change.  (All 
their faces turned into the lights and you work on them black nigger magic, 
and cleanse them at having seen the ugliness.  And if the beautiful see 
themselves, they will love themselves.)  We are preaching virtue agaain, but 
by that to mean NOW, toward what seems the most constructive use of the 
world.

The Revolutionary Theatre must EXPOSE!  Show up the insides of these humans, 
look into black skulls.  White men will cower before this theatre because it 
hates them.  Because they themselves habe been trained to hate.  The 
Revolutionary Theatre must hate them for hating.  For presuming with their  
technology to deny  the supremacy of the Spirit.  They will all die because 
of this.

The Revolutionary Theatre must teach their deaths.  It must crack their 
faces open to the mad cries of the poor.  It must teach them about silence 
and the truths lodged there.  It must kill any God anyone names except 
Common Sense.  The Revolutionary Theatre should flush the fags and murders 
out of Lincoln's face.

It should stagger through our universe correcting, insulting, preaching, 
spitting craziness--but a craziness taught to us in our most rational 
moments.  People must be taught to trust true scientists (knowers, diggers, 
oddballs) and that the holiness of life is the constant possibility of 
widening the consciousness.  And they must be incited to strike back against 
any agency that attempts to prevent this widening.

The Revolutionary Theatre must Accuse and Attack anything that can be 
accused and attacked.  It must Accuse and Attack because it is a theatre of 
Victims.  It looks at the sky with the victim's eyes, and moves the victims 
to look at the strength in their minds and their bodies.

Clay, in "Dutchman", Ray in "The Toilet", Walker in "The Slave", are all 
victims.  In the Western sense they could be heroes.  But the Revolutionary 
Theatre, even if it is Western, must be anti-Western.  It must show horrible 
coming attractions of "The Crumbling of the West."  Even as Artaud designed 
"The Conquest of Mexico", so we must design "The Conquest of White Eye", and 
show the missionaries and wiggly Liberals dying under blasts of concrete.  
For sound effects, wild screams of joy, from all the peoples of the world.

The Revolutionary Theatre must take dreams and give them a reality.  It must 
isolate the ritual and historical cycles of reality.  But it must be food 
for all those who need food, and daring propoganda for the beauty of the 
Human Mind  It is a political theatre, a weapon to help in the slaughter of 
these dim-witted fatbellied white guys who somehow believe that the rest of 
the world is here for to slobber on.

This should be a theatre of World Spirit.  Where the spirit can be shownto 
be the most competent force in the world.  Force.  Spirit.  Feeling.  The 
language will be anybody's, but tightened by the poet's backbone.  And even 
the language must show what the facts are in this consciousness epic, what's 
happening.  We will talk about the world, and the preciseness with which we 
are able to summon the world will be our art.  Art is method.  And art, 
"like any ashtray or senator," remains in the world.  Wittgenstein said 
ethics and aesthetics are one.  I believe this.  So the Broadway theatre is 
a theatre of reaction whose ethics, like its aesthetics, reflect the 
spiritual values of this unholy society, which sends young crackers all over 
the world blowing off colored people's heads.  (In some of these flippy 
Southern towns they even shoot up the immigrants' Favorite Son, be it 
Schwerner or JFKennedy.)

The Revolutionary Theatre is shaped by the world, and moves to reshape the 
world, using as its force the natural force and perpetual vibrations of the 
mind in the world.  We are history and desire, what we are, and what any 
experience can make us.

It is a social theatre, but all theatre is social theatre.  But we will 
change the drawing rooms into places where real things can be said about a 
real world, or into smoky rooms where the destruction of Washington can be 
plotted.  The Revolutionary Theatre must function like an incendiary pencil 
planted in Curtis Lemay's cap.  So that when the final curtain goes down 
brains are splattered over the seats and the floor, and bleeding nuns must 
wire SOS's to Belgians with gold teeth.

Our theatre will show victims so that their brothers in the audience will be 
better able to understand that they are the brothers of victims, and that 
they themselves are victims if they are blood brothers.  And what we show 
must cause the blood to rush, so that pre-revolutionary temperaments will be 
bathed in this blood, and it will cause their deepest souls to move, and 
they will find themselves tensed and clenched, even ready to die, at what 
the soul has been taught.  We will scream and cry, murder, run through the 
streets in agony, if it means some soul will be moved, moved to actual life 
understanding of what the world is, and what it ought to be.  We are 
preaching virtue and feeling, and a natural sense of the self in the world.  
All men live in the world, and he world ought to be a place for them to 
live.

What is called the imagination (from image, magi, magic, magician, etc.) is 
a practical vector from the soul.  It stores all data, and can be called on 
to solve all our "problems."  The imagination is the projection of ourselves 
past our sense of ourselves as "things."  Imagination (Image) is all 
possibility, because from the image, the initial circumscribed energy, any 
use (idea) is possible.  And so begins that image's use in the world.  
Possibility is what moves us.

The popular white man's theatre like the popular white man's novel shows 
tired white lives, and the problems of eating white sugar, or else it herds 
bigcaboosed blondes onto huge stages in rhinestones and makes believe they 
are dancing or singing.  WHITE BUSINESSMAN OF THE WORLD, DO YOU WANT TO SEE 
PEOPLE REALLY DANCING AND SINGING???  ALL OF YOU GO UP TO HARLEM AND GET 
YOURSELF KILLED.  THERE WILL BE DANCING AND SINGING, THEN, FOR REAL!!!  (In 
"The Slave", Walker Vessels, the black revolutionary, wears an armband, 
which is the insignia of the attacking army--a big red-lipped minstrel, 
grinning like crazy.)

The liberal white man's objection to the theatre of the revolution (if he is 
"hip" enough) will be on aesthetic grounds.  Most white Western artists do 
not need to be "political," since usually, whether they know it or not, they 
are in complete sympathy with the most repressive social forces in the world 
today.  There are more junior birdmen fascists running around the West today 
disguised as Artists than there are disguised as fascists.  (But then, that 
word, "Fascist," and with it "Fascism," has been made obsolete by the words 
"America," and Americanism.)  The American Artist usually turns out to be 
just a super-Bourgeois, because finally, all he has to show for his sojourn 
through the world is "better taste" than the Bourgeois--many times not even 
that.

Americans will hate the Revolutionary Theatre because it will be out to 
destroy them and whatever they believe is real.  American cops will try to 
close the theatres where such nakedness of the human spirit is paraded.  
American producers will say the revolutionary plays are filth, usually 
because they will treat human as if it were actually happening.  American 
directors will say that the white guys in the plays are too abstract and 
cowardly ("don't get me wrong...I mean aesthetically...") and they will be 
right.

The force we want is of twenty million spooks storming America with furious 
cries and unstoppable weapons.  We want actual explosions and actual 
brutality: AN EPIC IS CRUMBLING and we must give it the space and hugeness 
of its actual demise.  The Revolutionary Theatre, which is now peopled with 
victims, will soon begin to be peopled with new kinds of heroes--not the 
weak Hamlets debating whether or not they are ready to die for what's on 
their minds, but men and women (and minds) digging out from under a thousand 
years of "high art" and weak faced dalliance.  We must make an art that will 
function so as to call down the actual wrath of world spirit.  We are witch 
doctors and assassins, but we will open a place for the true scientists to 
expand our consciousness.  This is a theatre of assualt.  The play that will 
split the heavens for us will be caled THE DESTRUCTION OF AMERICA.  The 
heroes will be Crazy Horse, Denmark Vesey, Patrice Lumumba, and not history, 
not memory, not sad sentimental groping for a  warmth in our despair; these 
will be new men, new heroes, and their enemies most of you who are reading 
this.



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1971
Sender:"Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-22 01:55:45
Subject:Re: [poprogress] Response to Rothenberg's on-air analysis of the fascist rule and WBAI
Message:

Matthew -- I believe you are way off the mark on this one.

1. Rothenberg's emphasis was on the totalitarian process (which led to the
Nazification of Germany). He drew parallels with that process'  features and
mode of progression and what is transpiring at WBAI. That takes us thru the
first 11 paragraphs of Rothenberg's transcript.

2. Rothenberg also draws a parallel , Giuliani and Leid, in their apparent
attempts at seizing absolute power and in crushing opponents in a typical
bullying, gangsterish, totalitarian, fascist manner. He clearly states the
difference between Hitler in full bloom and Giuliani/Leid in the last
sentence of his 3rd paragraph, re "... traits that exist when a tyrant takes
over ..." Rothenberg then explains what these traits are and applies them to
the Leid regime at WBAI since the December 2000 'Night of the Long Knives'
[my parallel] and the continuing salami-ing of personnel -- one slice at a
time.

3. No spotlight to my mind was taken off Bush -- rather Rothenberg
interpreted the assassinations as driven by angry sympathizers of the
dastard [mean, sneaky, coward] who was running with his tail between his
legs and his head up his anus, to the right, against the long-time
[imperfect] liberal trend of the now Democrapic Potty. Witness the
confirmation of this in the Clinton/Gore resistance to low-cost medicines
for Africa's AIDS victims, support of pharmaceutical company rapacity and
murder for excess profits, Clinton/Gore's support of the Republican version
of Welfare reform -- leading to the predicted rise in infant mortality
[infanticide] among the poor, Black, White, and Green, continuing support by
Clinton/Gore of long term massacres in East Timor, thruout Africa, the
deadly farce perpetrated on Kosovo, and Central & South America. Bush Jr.,
despite his killings in Texas while governor, was mild compared to
Clinton/Gore who instigated, promoted, and supported the genteel murder of
millions thru policies that led to continuous slaughter in the countries and
continents mentioned.
No wonder truly compassionate liberals abandoned Gore during the election.
Gore forced the 2% into Nader's camp. Gore and his assiten [worse than
assinine] pronouncements and abandonment of African Americans and Hispanics
in Florida go to prove his perfidy.
Concerning your criticism about taking the spotlight off Gorgeous George, I
believe we can all chew gum and walk at the same time. Nader, an imperfect
candidate, was so feared for his pertinence on a variety of
crucial-to-the-public matters that he was forcibly excluded from public
debates by the Repukeagains and Democrap mafia. At least 2% of the public
were not fooled by the two flatulent front-running fakers.
The two major parties were in agreement on continuing to force-feed garbage
to the public. Notice how the Democraps joined the Repukeagains in pushing
thru the tax 'rebate?' This while so many lack adequate housing, medical
care and education and for whom the tax rebate will be miniscule, while the
massive monetary benefits of the tax refund go to the wealthiest who don't
need it. Those billions should have been focused on the neediest.
Clearly, the Democraps are spineless slimes, whereas the Repukeagains are
spineless sharks.The Democraps try to smother you with goo of
pseudo-kindness and the Repukeagains try to eat you alive.
The Weimar government collapsed from the excessive reparations demanded of
Germany by the Western Allies, compounded by the world economic collapse in
the late 1920's and early 1930's. Power-crazed opportunists offered the moon
and delivered horrific death and devastation. This is, I think Rothenberg's
point -- unscrupulous opportunists making their moves at WBAI. In their
respective areas of operation, their is no real difference in type of
behavior between cutthroat corporateers and flesh-eating fascists -- the
difference is only in the magnitude and seriousness and permanence of the
pain they cause.

Gore deserved to lose the presidency and Bush did not deserve becoming
president. Nader refused to knuckle under to the twin turds against whose
policies he was running, and in the words of e.e. cumming's Olaf, Nader
agreed that
".. there is some sh-t I will not eat." Or to paraphrase Shakespeare, "The
fault you brutish is not in our leaders, but in our own self-righteous,
slavish selves, that we remain whining underlings."

If we don't help wake the 100 million who didn't vote, and don't help
educate the 200 million who could vote, we will either die in our sleep of
apathy or in a rage in the cage that is being built for us in each new
prison. Moses, Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, Gandhi, and King built
constituencies against great odds -- so did Genghis Khan, Attila, Alexander,
Lenin, Hitler, Churchill, Roosevelt, and Mandela. What do we need to learn
and apply without becoming murderers or enslavers?

Don't blame me. I voted for Justice.

Howard








----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
To: <siddharta5@...>; <friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com>;
<savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>;
<onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>; <amirib@...>; <MeadHajduk@...>;
<hajdukmi@...>; <jmodibo@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 8:57 PM
Subject: [poprogress] Response to Rothenberg's on-air analysis of the
fascist rule and WBAI


>
> This is an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's
> support of Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush &
> the right stole the 2001 election.  Interesting, but one of David
> Rothenburg's main errors (similar to what we've heard from
> WBAI/naderites/greens since the X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead
with
> Hitler (Lead is a bullying traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, but
> not a fascist & to call her a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 &
> Co.--though WBAI coup is certainly part of erotion of democracy in US),
> According to Rothenberg, the #1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, while
> Bush2/Republican/REAL FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of
proper
> historic analysis) even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that
WBAI's
> support of Nader helped throw the election to B2!!  There's a deep
imbalance
> of perspective that needs to be corrected here in terms of the Green Party
> histortic role in 2001, causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and Rep's
> as no worse. (Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green voting
> base!! To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, suburban Montclair was there,
but
> not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., let alone the working class
> from any town)  This same opportunism causes the P.B., esp. on the left,
to
> think that only when it comes for THEM, then it's worthy of the name
> fascism!  Yet, how many more times will we hear many of the same people
say,
> "It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real fascists) because it
will
> only strengthen the resisitance"  Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar
in
> the 1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending Amy
Goodman
> & Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to this mess.
>
> -Matthew Smith
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: CFNJ-Communications <siddharta5@...>
> To: friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Transcript: Rothenberg's on-air analysis of the
> fascist rule  and WBAI
> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 07:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
>
>  > Dear Friends,
>  >
>  > David Rothenberg Saturday did an on-air analysis citing the
similarities
> in
>  > the rise of the Third Reich with what has happened at WBAI since the
> Christmas
>  > Coup, including setting up a scapegoat and Leid's power hungry demands
> for
>  > slavish loyalty with no criticism allowed.  He also commented on the
> security
>  > system the likes of which he said he hadn't seen since he visited Sing
> Sing.
>  > He also announced that he has been "summoned by the powers that be" for
a
>  > meeting later this week and doesn't expect to be on air much longer.
>  >
>  > Below is a transcript of his comparative analysis. Audio version is
>  > on-line at
>  > http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=3514
>  >
>  > ====================
>  >
>  > It's just about 10 o'clock on WBAI fm in New York,  99.5 listener-
>  > sponsored radio. I'm David Rothenberg.
>  >
>  > From time to time I've cited William Shirer's book, "The Rise and
>  > Fall of the Third Reich,"  as one of the most influential and
>  > important books in my lifetime of reading. When I read it I was well
>  > familiar with the horror stories, the endless atrocities committed by
>  > the Nazis, but I wanted to understand all of the aspects which
>  > permitted Hitler's rise to power - the historic precedents, the
>  > political, the religious, psychological and economic climate which
>  > saw a people allowing a tyrant to take on the world to satisfy some
>  > peculiar sick need. And of course we have seen traces of that in
>  > other parts of the world at other times, some successful, others
>  > sputtering out in its infancy.
>  >
>  > During the Guiliani years, in all of the Guiliani years I've often
cited
>  > Shirer's book, only to be the recipient of sharp criticism mostly
>  > saying that I besmirched the memory of holocaust victims by such
>  > glib comparisons. I certainly didn't compare Guiliani's reign in New
>  > York with the Final Solutions of Hitler, but if we're to learn anything
>  > from the rise of Hitler, as Shirer outlines in his book, it's to
>  > recognize the traits that exist when a tyrant takes over a country,
>  > or a city, or a corporation, or a non-profit organization.
>  >
>  > What did I learn from "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich?"
>  >
>  > One, nearly every government or corporate enterprise has a
>  > shadow ruling body: industrialists, or boards of directors, who work
>  > behind the scenes. Who are the continuing power brokers. Who
>  > want government to run smoothly, maintaining a sense of
>  > democracy but always protecting the privileged and the powerful
>  > and the controllers of the purse strings. They could be
>  > manufacturers or real estate empire kings, or a board of directors.
>  >
>  > When there's a crisis, economic or a sense that control is being
>  > lost, there's a political edge that emerges. Power brokers seek out
>  > a strong personality to take control and put things back into shape.
>  > Usually with a blank check, unless or until it gets out of hand.
>  > Sometimes it goes way beyond what the industrialists need. That's
>  > when bloodshed often happens.
>  >
>  > There's always a law and order personality in the crowd, someone
>  > with deep psychological, sometimes pathological, needs to be
>  > fulfilled to take charge and to be all-powerful.  History has recorded
>  > such individuals and their rapid rise and their inevitable falls.
>  >
>  > If you follow the blueprint of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"
>  > you discover that the rising tyrant needs a number of things in
>  > place, all inter-related and to be acted upon together. Rhat would
>  > be, one, a scapegoat or scapegoats. Two, a military or security
>  > control, justified because of the alleged threats of the scapegoats.
>  > Three, elimination of charismatic opposition, holders of a
>  > democratic process.
>  >
>  > All of this is with the silent approval of the power brokers, the
>  > economic controllers. We don't have to paint the picture that Hitler
>  > and the Krupp empire drew, but look at Guiliani's administration.
>  > The scapegoats were defined in a number of ways. It was clearly
>  > perceived to be young, Black males. They were the police targets.
>  > No nay-sayers were permitted in the Guiliani administration, and it
>  > did not and has not represented the diversity of this city. And the
>  > blockading off of City Hall reflected a bunker mentality.
>  >
>  > But our checks and balances, often through the courts, people
>  > suing Guiliani, a reasonably free press and due process put a rein
>  > on much of Guiliani's terror. But his inclinations were clear. It is
>  > why he has frightened me.
>  >
>  > His fall from grace came when decent people responded to the
>  > incredible cases of Louima, Diallo and the Dorsimond cases. And
>  > then hizzoner's personal peccadilloes, the hypocrisy, the conflict
>  > with his moral posturing.
>  >
>  > And then we come to the takeover of this station. A small blip in
>  > the political scheme of things, but a voice that was heard with
>  > much interest by the Democratic Party during the elections when
>  > "too much" time was spent justifying third party realities. Pacifica
>  > and WBAI, specifically WBAI, could be held responsible for
>  > marginal voters going for Nader, throwing the election to Bush.
>  >
>  > With the former chair of the board closely tied to the outgoing
>  > presidential administration and still the puller- of- strings at
>  > Pacifica, serving two masters at the same time, or maybe serving
>  > one master at the expense of the other. Three weeks after the
>  > Supreme Court ruled that George Bush would be president, some
>  > drastic changes took place at this little station in the middle of the
>  > FM dial.
>  >
>  > A scapegoat was found: she the interviewer of Bill Clinton on
>  > Election Day; she who had Ralph Nader as her partner during the
>  > GOP convention. The charismatic people's voices were dismissed
>  > without warning. Fired. Locked out. And the security system went
>  > into place.
>  >
>  > And the sole criteria for being part of the decision-making is loyalty
>  > to the chief. Talents long-abandoned or overlooked rose to the top,
>  > just like Rudolph Hess in the Hitler years during the Third Reich.
>  > For the sole measure of visibility or audibility was loyalty and
>  > joining in the scapegoating.
>  >
>  > I have attempted to abide by the gag rule imposed on us, but when
>  > I hear continual slander about my colleagues I feel that the gag rule
>  > is tantamount to remaining silent during the rise of the Third Reich.
>  > Amy Goodman has been verbally and now physically abused at
>  > this station. Bernard White's name and professional skills have
>  > been assaulted by persons who, quite candidly, can't hold a candle
>  > to his talents.
>  >
>  > The interim manager of this station is irrationally obsessed by Amy
>  > Goodman. Amy's reportorial skills, her large following and the
>  > accolades she's received. Abuse of Amy is the sole criteria for a
>  > place at the table at WBAI now, and slavish obedience is what is
>  > expected. And I find all of that intolerable.
>  >
>  > It's all very confused, and never-defined motives are revealed as
>  > power relished for itself. But always forgotten, for those who don't
>  > know their history, is that every rise of a Third Reich is followed by
>  > a fall.
>  >
>  > Stay tuned. Pay close attention.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > http://savewbai.tao.ca
>  >
>  >
>  > To unsubscribe from this list
>  > email lists@... with: unsubscribe savewbai
>  > or visit http://lists.tao.ca
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
>
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>
>







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1972
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-22 12:23:53
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Emergency WBAI Pickets
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: CFNJ-Communications <siddharta5@...>
To: friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Emergency WBAI Pickets
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:31:10 -0700 (PDT)


 > Pacifica Campaign Action Alert
 > Democracy Now! Staff Suspended Without Pay
 >
 > Emergency Solidarity Pickets at WBAI
 > 8:00am-10:00am
 >
 > Wednesday, August 22
 > Thursday, August 23
 > Friday, August 24
 >
 > 120 Wall Street
 > Lower Manhattan
 > Train #2,3,4,5 to Wall Street
 >
 > Protest Pacifica management�s suspension of Amy Goodman and the Democracy
 > Now! team. They have been punished because they demanded a safe and 
secure
 > work environment, free from harassment by WBAI interim general manager
 > Utrice Leid and her stooges.
 >
 > Amy Goodman and the DN! staff should not be forced to report to a job 
site
 > where they are physically attacked by supervisors and where staff members 
go
 > on the air to urge their physical destruction. That is fascism, not
 > democracy, and no one should collaborate with such policies.
 >
 > Let your voice be heard!
 > Stop the harassment and abuse!
 > The Pacifica Board majority clique must resign now!
 >
 >
 > **********************************************
 > The Pacifica Campaign
 > 51 MacDougal St., #80
 > New York, NY  10012
 > Tel: (646) 230-9588
 >
 > http://www.pacificacampaign.org
 > pacificacampaign@...
 >
 >


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1973
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-22 12:28:32
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Pacifica management suspends entire Democracy Now! staff
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: CFNJ-Communications <siddharta5@...>
To: friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Pacifica management suspends entire Democracy Now! 
staff
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:29:42 -0700 (PDT)

 > ENTIRE DEMOCRACY NOW! STAFF SUSPENDED WITHOUT PAY
 >
 > Below is a bulletin from the Pacifica Campaign�s Juan Gonzalez
 > explaining why most Pacifica listeners are no longer hearing the
 > network�s flagship show, Democracy Now!, on their airwaves.
 >
 > You�ll find several ways to help toward the end of his message -- 
especially if you are a union
 > member -- and following it, the memo which Amy Goodman and other 
Democracy Now! staffers sent to
 > Pacifica management today. Please take a few moments to take
 > action in support of them!
 >
 > ================================
 > NEWS UPDATE FROM JUAN GONZALEZ
 > ================================
 >
 > Dear Pacifica Campaign Supporters:
 >
 > The crisis with Pacifica's flagship national news show, Democracy
 > Now!, has gotten worse. Pacifica management has now suspended Amy
 > Goodman without pay. Incredibly, the Democracy Now! team found
 > this out in the morning newspapers.
 >
 > As you will remember, Amy and the Democracy Now! staff last
 > Tuesday, August 14, decided to move production from Pacifica
 > station WBAI in New York to an alternate studio in downtown
 > Manhattan because they feared for their physical safety. At WBAI,
 > they had been physically and verbally attacked by interim station
 > manager Utrice Leid and other Leid loyalists. When Pacifica senior
 > management ignored their repeated written requests that something
 > be done about the intolerable atmosphere of intimidation and
 > threats at the station, they felt they had no choice but to
 > fashion some interim solution and find a safe and secure
 > workplace.
 >
 > But instead of taking steps to investigate the assault on Amy, and
 > to ensure a violence- and harassment-free workplace, it is Amy and
 > the Democracy Now! team that are now being disciplined by Pacifica
 > Executive Director Bessie Wash.
 >
 > For more than a week, Pacifica management has refused to broadcast
 > live editions of Democracy Now! that Amy and her staff have been
 > producing from Downtown Community Television (DCTV). This is
 > despite the fact that other shows at WBAI are produced from
 > alternate sites and fed to the station by ISDN line.
 >
 > Despite Pacifica's claims that Amy had failed to report to work,
 > KPFA in Berkeley continues to air the live broadcasts of DN!, as
 > do several affiliates around the country who were able to get the
 > feed via phone, web and ISDN. But on the other four Pacifica
 > stations in New York, Washington, Houston and Los Angeles,
 > listeners were denied the show they have grown accustomed to
 > hearing each morning.
 >
 > For several days last week, Amy and DN! staffers Kris Abrams, Brad
 > Simpson and Anthony Sloan engaged in marathon negotiations with
 > their AFTRA union representative and Pacifica lawyers to defuse
 > the crisis. Before they would return to WBAI, the DN! staff
 > insisted minimally on firm written guarantees and actions by
 > Pacifica to assure their safety. They also asked for an
 > investigation of the Leid assault, an end to their banishment to a
 > second-class production studio at WBAI, and unrestricted access
 > with their own keys to the DN! offices. Clearly, if a station
 > manager is allowed to physically assault an employee, as Leid
 > did before eyewitnesses, and to deny basic quality working
 > conditions, without any censure from management, it provides a
 > greenlight for intimidation and attacks to continue.
 >
 > Quite predictably, on Saturday one of the most virulent and
 > violence-prone producers on WBAI, Clayton Riley, launched into an
 > on-air tirade of threats that were clearly directed at Amy and the
 > current crisis. "When you talk about the enemy, you find the
 > enemy, you isolate the enemy and you destroy the enemy," said
 > Riley. "These people have put themselves in the position of being
 > the enemies. This conflict is not going to end, in my judgment and
 > let me be clear about that, until the dissidents, until the so-
 > called exile community is destroyed. Unequivocally."
 >
 > This echoes Station Manager Utrice Leid's own statements, some of
 > which on NPR's Morning Edition of June 21st: "I need you stalwart
 > soldiers out there ... This is a call to arms. I told you, it's a
 > war." Leid said that some of those who she says were sabotaging
 > the station are "right here with us." Listen to NPR's report at
 > http://search.npr.org/cf/cmn/cmnpd01fm.cfm?PrgDate=6%2F21%2F2001&PrgID=3
 >
 >
 > AFTRA SELLS OUT TO PACIFICA MANAGEMENT
 >
 > Unfortunately, the AFTRA union seemed at times to be in
 > management's pocket. Rather than militantly fight for firm
 > guarantees of physical safety for Amy, the AFTRA rep wanted the
 > DN! staff to settle for a vaguely-worded policy statement from
 > Pacifica reaffirming that the workplace should be free of threats.
 > The same statement contained a so-called "management rights"
 > clause that required all employees to obey any directives from
 > management, except those that violated the union contract. Since
 > the AFTRA contract has no sections dealing with on-the-job safety,
 > that provision thus required Amy and her staff to follow any
 > orders, even if they felt physically threatened. In addition, the
 > union was willing to settle for a Pacifica promise to conduct an
 > investigation of the alleged assault and to report back on the
 > progress of the investigation by Sept. 10. In other words, no
 > conclusion to the investigation was required at that time, only a
 > report of "progress". How long does it take to investigate whether
 > a supervisor physically attacked an employee? Aren't there
 > numerous recently installed surveillance cameras at WBAI that
 > probably captured the assault on tape? Aren't there several
 > witnesses to the act?
 >
 > As a veteran union representative with the Newspaper Guild, I must
 > ask, why would a union rep cave in so easily to management?
 >
 > Well, what is not widely known is that the WBAI paid staff, with
 > the apparent blessing of Pacifica management, is seeking to
 > decertify another union with a much more militant history of
 > worker defense -- the United Electrical Workers, and to affiliate
 > instead to AFTRA. AFTRA officials are reportedly even willing to
 > waive their union's astronomically-high union initiation fees just
 > to gain a foothold in WBAI.
 >
 > Quite simply, it appears that AFTRA is selling out Amy and the
 > staff at DN! and will soon be amply rewarded with many more new
 > dues-paying members at WBAI.
 >
 > CALL AFTRA TODAY!
 >
 > We urge you, especially those of you who are union members, to
 > call AFTRA headquarters today and ask to speak to union president
 > Greg Hessinger. The AFTRA national office telephone number is 212-
 > 532-0800. The fax number is 212-532-2242. Or e-mail him at:
 > ghessing@....
 >
 > Tell him that Amy Goodman and the DN! staff should not be forced
 > to report to a job site where they are physically attacked by
 > supervisors and where staff members go on the air to urge their
 > physical destruction. That is fascism, not democracy, and no union
 > should collaborate with such policies.
 >
 > THE FIGHT MOVES TO THE COURTS AND THE STREETS!
 >
 > Plaintiffs in the various law suits against the Pacifica board
 > have asked for an expedited hearing this Wednesday in Alameda
 > County Superior Court over this latest attack on Democracy Now! As
 > part of a court stipulation between the two sides, Pacifica cannot
 > unilaterally make changes in national programming, including
 > Democracy Now!, and the litigants are seeking an injunction. While
 > we are hopeful that the judge will rule appropriately, we cannot
 > place all our faith in the courts. Pacifica now has an even more
 > expensive and politically-connected corporate law firm than it had
 > before.
 >
 > We urge you to keep up your phone calls and e-mails to Pacifica
 > management demanding that Democracy Now! come back on the air.
 > Thousands have spoken. We urge you to continue. Also organize
 > protests in your listening area during the next few days and weeks
 > against Pacifica management and the renegade board members who
 > still refuse to restore democratic accountability and free speech
 > to the network.
 >
 > Already there has been a tremendous response from community
 > stations nationwide. And endorsements for Democracy Now! have come
 > far and wide, from activist Pam Africa to actor Danny Glover to
 > the Journalists for Democratic Rights in Nigeria. And thanks for
 > all your great e-mails to the Pacifica Campaign. We appreciate
 > them and will try to respond as soon as we can.
 >
 > A National Day of Solidarity is planned for this Tuesday, August
 > 28. Hold a picket in front of your local Pacifica or affiliate
 > station in support of the DN! team. Organize a radio program on
 > the crisis. The Pacifica Campaign will be happy to come on to talk
 > about the crisis. Also, please send a contribution to the Pacifica
 > Campaign. Tax deductible contributions can be made to: Institute
 > for Media Analysis-Pacifica Campaign. Our mailing address:
 > Pacifica Campaign, 51 MacDougal St., #80, New York, NY, 10012.
 >
 > In the meantime, please be sure to contact AFTRA and make the
 > phone calls, faxes or e-mails listed below.
 >
 > In struggle,
 >
 > Juan Gonzalez
 >
 >
 > ***********************************************************
 >
 > WHAT YOU CAN DO !
 >
 > Pick up the phone, organize demonstrations, notify all you come in
 > contact with not to contribute to any Pacifica fundraisers, until
 > democracy returns to the Pacifica network and the fired and the
 > banned have been returned. Demand that the hijacker Pacifica
 > National Board members resign now and the immediate resignations
 > and dismissals of Bessie Wash and Utrice Leid.
 >
 > Please call, fax, e-mail or mail the following individuals.
 > Contact as many times possible until you feel that your voice has
 > been heard. Your phone calls are important. Keep the message
 > straightforward, no profanity, or name calling. Victory is
 > certain, we will win.
 >
 > Call AFTRA headquarters today and ask to speak to union president
 > Greg Hessinger. The AFTRA national office telephone number is 212-
 > 532-0800. The fax number is 212-532-2242. Or e-mail him at:
 > ghessing@....
 >
 > Tell him that Amy Goodman and the DN! staff should not be forced
 > to report to a job site where they are physically attacked by
 > supervisors and where staff members go on the air to urge their
 > physical destruction. That is fascism, not democracy, and no union
 > should collaborate with such policies.
 >
 > Pacifica Board Vice Chair Ken Ford
 > Tel: 800-368-5242 ext. 228
 > Tel: (301) 350-6388
 > Fax: 202-822-0369
 > E-mail: kenfordpacifica@..., kford@...
 >
 > Ken Ford's boss at the National Association of Home Builders:
 > Jerry Howard, CEO 800-368-5242 ext. 257
 > E-mail: jhoward@...
 > Ask that the NAHB's Ken Ford resign from the Pacifica Board today
 >
 > Pacifica Board member Valrie Chambers
 > Tel: 361-825-6012
 > Fax: 281-655-0266
 > E-mail: Valrie.Chambers@..., valriechambers@...
 >
 > Pacifica Board member Wendell L. Johns
 > Tel: 202-752-5355
 > Fax: 202-752-4281
 > E-mail: wendell_L_johns@...
 >
 > Cut the below list of email addresses, paste it into the To: line
 > of your email composition form. Also go to:
 > http://www.progressiveportal.org/letters/pacifica/resign/
 >
 > Bmwpacifica@..., uleid@..., sypacifica@...,
 > kford@..., KenFordPacifica@..., jmurdock@...,
 > wendell_L_johns@..., Alfigo@...,
 > valriechambers@..., Valrie.Chambers@...,
 > jhoward@..., bsmith@...,
 > pacificacampaign@..., ghessing@...
 >
 >
 >
 > =========================================
 > MEMO FROM THE DEMOCRACY NOW! STAFF
 > =========================================
 > TO: Pacifica National Board and Pacifica management
 > FROM: Democracy Now! Staff
 > DATE: 8/20/01
 > RE: safety
 >
 > As you know, the Democracy Now! staff spent last week
 > negotiating with Pacifica management over how our safety could be
 > guaranteed.  The talks came after two attacks, one physical and
 > one verbal.
 >
 > On Friday, August 10, WBAI Station Manager Utrice Leid
 > physically assaulted Amy Goodman.  On Monday, August 13, the
 > Operations Director Sidney Smith and morning show host Marjorie
 > Moore began yelling at Amy as soon as she entered the station.
 > They followed her to her office, and when Democracy Now!
 > producer Brad Simpson closed the door after her, Smith used his
 > master key to re-enter. They continued to yell at us as we tried
 > to  prepare for the morning's program, until the on-air host came
 > out of  master control to tell them to stop disturbing his
 > broadcast.
 >
 > We left after our broadcast, believing we could no longer safely
 > work at WBAI.  We waited for a response to our Friday e-mails to
 > management about the first attack.  When no response came, we
 > wrote our second letter laying out why we felt we had no recourse,
 > but to find an alternative space from which to broadcast and
 > produce Democracy Now! It was only then that management
 > responded.
 >
 > For the next three days, the Democracy Now! staff negotiated in
 > good faith, attempting to reach agreement with management on a
 > minimum set of safety guarantees for our return.  We agreed not to
 > comment publicly during the negotiations.
 >
 > Meanwhile, the situation at WBAI deteriorated.  On Thursday
 > morning before Democracy Now!, the newly installed morning show
 > staff used the time to encourage listeners to attack Amy and
 > Democracy Now! As further evidence of the increasingly
 > unprofessional and hostile workplace, when people voiced their
 > support, the hosts either mocked them or cut short their calls
 > with the sound of a flushing toilet.
 >
 > On Saturday, the verbal harassment reached a peak, when
 > producer Clayton Riley said on the air: "When you talk about the
 > enemy, you find the enemy, you isolate the enemy and you
 > destroy the enemy.  These people have put themselves in the
 > position of being the enemies. This conflict is not going to end,
 > in my judgment and let me be clear about that, until the
 > dissidents, until the so-called exile community is destroyed.
 > Unequivocally."
 >
 > This echoes Station Manager Utrice Leid's own oft-repeated
 > comments, some of which aired around the nation on NPR's Morning
 > Edition of June 21st:
 >
 > "I need you stalwart soldiers out there. This is a call to arms. I
 > told you, it's a war."  Leid said that some of those who she says
 > were sabotaging the station are right here with us.
 >
 > These inflammatory comments are not just words.  Several months
 > ago, Clayton physically moved in on WBAI reporter Robert Knight
 > for coming to Amy's defense, shouting repeatedly  "Stop kissing
 > the ass of that white bitch." Minutes later, he assaulted Knight
 > in Utrice Leid's office, while she looked on.
 >
 > Riley has also threatened to pay a hitman $400 to break the legs
 > of Democracy Now! engineer Anthony Sloan.  He has screamed
 > obscenities at former Democracy Now! producer Terry Allen.  In
 > each case,  we informed WBAI and Pacifica management of these
 > incidents.  Management never responded.
 >
 > Furthermore, Clayton was not disciplined, but rewarded: Utrice
 > Leid has since doubled the air-time of his weekly program. The
 > hate-filled, violent on and off-air harassment and intimidation
 > only intensified after Leid's assault on Amy.
 >
 > While Pacifica management has offered to post a statement
 > asserting that WBAI is a nonviolent workplace, they refused to
 > prohibit the on-air personal attacks, which gives a green light
 > for the kind of assault and harassment we experienced last week.
 > They also have refused to give Amy a key to the station or even to
 > her own office.  She is locked out until she hands over her home
 > and cell phone numbers to the very person who assaulted her.
 >
 > We have an interim solution.  As we have communicated, we have
 > a safe and even technically superior studio from which to
 > broadcast. Democracy Now! will continue to work at Downtown
 > Community Television until our safety at WBAI can be guaranteed
 > in a meaningful way.
 >
 > This will:
 >
 >  - preclude further intimidation, harassment and assault
 >  - de-escalate the situation
 >  - provide us with a technically superior studio at no cost
 >  - lessen Pacifica's liability
 >
 > It also answers Leid's demand.  On the air, she has said we will
 > throw the unwanted tenants out.  Off the air, she has stormed into
 > our office, insisting that we find an alternative studio.
 >
 > There is ample precedent for this arrangement.  At least three men
 > broadcast from offsite studios daily for Pacifica and WBAI:  Gary
 > Null (M-F, 12-1 pm), Armand DeMille (M-F, 1 to 2 pm), and
 > Pacifica Network News correspondent Bob Hennelly (daily for PNN
 > and weekly for WBAI).
 >
 > For these men, broadcasting from an alternative site is a
 > convenience.  For us, it has become a necessary safety
 > precaution.
 >
 > We feel it is our responsibility to continue to provide Democracy
 > Now! to the Pacifica stations and affiliates, as we have for
 > nearly six years. Because WBAI is presently an unsafe workplace,
 > last week we broadcast from DCTV.
 >
 > The programs were technically perfect, of higher broadcast quality
 > than even WBAI provides.  But most importantly, we are safe.
 >
 > Until we feel our safety is guaranteed at WBAI, the incidents we
 > described are adequately investigated and dealt with, and the on-
 > air personal attacks stop, we see no other option but to continue
 > to produce and broadcast Democracy Now! in this manner.
 >
 > Our safety is non-negotiable.  We hope you agree.
 >
 > Signed,
 >
 > Amy Goodman, host of Democracy Now!
 > Kris Abrams, producer of Democracy Now!
 > Brad Simpson, producer of Democracy Now!
 > Anthony Sloan, engineer of Democracy Now!
 >
 >
 >
 > **********************************************************
 >      website: http//www.savepacifica.net
 >      email: savepacifica@...
 >       to subscribe/unsubscribe visit:      
http://www.savepacifica.net/subscribe.html


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1974
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-22 13:29:22
Subject:Re: Response to Rothenberg's on-air analysis of the fascist rule and WBAI
Message:

so then they do support the greens for positions the people are not 
organized to win, why all the jibberish?

and they lie - for the record, and this is for all who may have missed it -
AL GORE WON THE VOTE! BUSH2 IS A THEIF!	-fuk nadir-

Smash Schundler!
women, revolutionaries, progressives, workers, youth, small businesses and 
the peoples' defensive of democracy vote McGreasy!

WOMEN�S DEFENSE-
SMASH SCHUNDLER!
Defend Women�s Reproductive Rights Now!
Waste Sexist/Racist Republicans!
Organize to Defeat Schundler & Promote McGreasy for Governor

Come to the next Peoples� Campaign meeting
Saturday, August 25  1:00pm
NB Public Library
Register NJ to Vote!
Contact Sisterhood & Struggle Tamara 732.729.0390

joe smith
Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
part of the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign
732.586.5535 can_bush@...

>From: CFNJ-Communications <siddharta5@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...>, siddharta5@...,  
>savewbai@yahoogroups.com
>CC: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com,  
>onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com, amirib@..., MeadHajduk@...,  
>hajdukmi@..., jmodibo@..., Paul Surovell <Paul4sure@...>
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Response to Rothenberg's on-air analysis of the fascist 
>rule and WBAI
>Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Friends,
>This post was sent to the friends of wbai - NJ list which is not a 
>discussion board but an
>announcement board which I moderate.
>I will not post it but will respond below as interspersed in CAPS:
>Fred N. (NJ)
>--- Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...> wrote:
> >
> > This is an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's
> > support of Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush 
>&
> > the right stole the 2001 election.
>
>Reply: There has never been an endorsement of Ralph Nader by WBAI
>
>   Interesting, but one of David
> > Rothenburg's main errors (similar to what we've heard from
> > WBAI/naderites/greens since the X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead 
>with
> > Hitler (Lead is a bullying traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, 
>but
> > not a fascist & to call her a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 &
> > Co.--though WBAI coup is certainly part of erotion of democracy in US),
> > According to Rothenberg, the #1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, 
>while
> > Bush2/Republican/REAL FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of 
>proper
> > historic analysis) even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that 
>WBAI's
> > support of Nader helped throw the election to B2!!
>
>Reply:  I did not listen to David Rothenberg's talk, where, by the way, he 
>announces that he may
>never return because he is likely to be fired for saying what he was 
>saying.  I do agree with
>David on the point that the methods used by Utrice Leid are common to the 
>fascists (suppression of
>speech, intimidation/public humiliation, false claims of theft/violence and 
>constant personal
>attacks.  U. Leid also installed an 8 camera audio-video serveillance 
>system complete with
>card-key entry system which makes Rykers Island look low tech.  I also 
>agree that the Democratic
>Party has betrayed the American working class and is now dominated by 
>people who are doing the
>bidding of very large corporations and global finance interests.  The fact 
>that Amy Goodman
>reported on Nader does not mean that WBAI was a station controlled by the 
>Greens.
>
>   There's a deep imbalance
> > of perspective that needs to be corrected here in terms of the Green 
>Party
> > histortic role in 2001, causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and 
>Rep's
> > as no worse. (Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green 
>voting
> > base!!
>
>Reply:  The Dems are not a threat to the Greens, the Greens did not defeat 
>Al Gore.  Al Gore and
>the DNC and massive corporate-sponsored campaigning turned off voters and 
>defeated Al Gore.  Half
>of all registers don't vote.  Half a billion dollars worth of corporate 
>contributions did not
>change that.
>
>To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, suburban Montclair was there, but
> > not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., let alone the working 
>class
> > from any town)  This same opportunism causes the P.B., esp. on the left, 
>to
> > think that only when it comes for THEM, then it's worthy of the name
> > fascism!
>
>Reply:  Actually, Ralph Nader did have some very large popular rallies 
>around the country that
>were not covered by the mass medias.  It's a bitch to try to be prez 
>without money and free
>publicity from the corporate medias.  WBAI was doing what it's mission 
>states:  air the voices of
>dissent that are not presented anywhere else.
>
>Yet, how many more times will we hear many of the same people say,
> > "It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real fascists) because it 
>will
> > only strengthen the resisitance"
>Reply:  Someone said that?  Who? David Rothenberg?
>
>   Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar in
> > the 1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending Amy 
>Goodman
> > & Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to this mess.
>
>Reply:  What led to this mess is the Corporation forPublic Broadcasting 
>funding which allowed
>board members from large corporations to be named to the Pacifica Board and 
>a series of executives
>with connections with the Clinton administration to take over Pacifica and 
>undertake its
>destruction.  David Rothenberg knows.  Al Lewis knows.  Bob Lederer, Robert 
>Knight, Juan Gonzales,
>Deepa Fernandes, Mimi Rosenberg, Verna Avery Brown, Mario Murillo, Ken Nash 
>and Bernard White's
>Wake Up Call's crew know.
>The democratic party will not save us.  They are running the same national 
>security state and
>prison/military industrial complex with the same motives of fear, greed and 
>hubris than their
>republican friends.
>
>Wake up Matt,  WBAI and Pacifica were the ALTERNATIVE RADIO.  After that, 
>yes, the fascist state
>will have silenced us and few Democrats will have said a thing.
>
>Message Follows----
> > From: CFNJ-Communications <siddharta5@...>
> > To: friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Transcript: Rothenberg's on-air analysis of the
> > fascist rule  and WBAI
> > Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 07:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >  > Dear Friends,
> >  >
> >  > David Rothenberg Saturday did an on-air analysis citing the 
>similarities
> > in
> >  > the rise of the Third Reich with what has happened at WBAI since the
> > Christmas
> >  > Coup, including setting up a scapegoat and Leid's power hungry 
>demands
> > for
> >  > slavish loyalty with no criticism allowed.  He also commented on the
> > security
> >  > system the likes of which he said he hadn't seen since he visited 
>Sing
> > Sing.
> >  > He also announced that he has been "summoned by the powers that be" 
>for a
> >  > meeting later this week and doesn't expect to be on air much longer.
> >  >
> >  > Below is a transcript of his comparative analysis. Audio version is
> >  > on-line at
> >  > http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=3514
> >  >
> >  > ====================
> >  >
> >  > It's just about 10 o'clock on WBAI fm in New York,  99.5 listener-
> >  > sponsored radio. I'm David Rothenberg.
> >  >
> >  > From time to time I've cited William Shirer's book, "The Rise and
> >  > Fall of the Third Reich,"  as one of the most influential and
> >  > important books in my lifetime of reading. When I read it I was well
> >  > familiar with the horror stories, the endless atrocities committed by
> >  > the Nazis, but I wanted to understand all of the aspects which
> >  > permitted Hitler's rise to power - the historic precedents, the
> >  > political, the religious, psychological and economic climate which
> >  > saw a people allowing a tyrant to take on the world to satisfy some
> >  > peculiar sick need. And of course we have seen traces of that in
> >  > other parts of the world at other times, some successful, others
> >  > sputtering out in its infancy.
> >  >
> >  > During the Guiliani years, in all of the Guiliani years I've often 
>cited
> >  > Shirer's book, only to be the recipient of sharp criticism mostly
> >  > saying that I besmirched the memory of holocaust victims by such
> >  > glib comparisons. I certainly didn't compare Guiliani's reign in New
> >  > York with the Final Solutions of Hitler, but if we're to learn 
>anything
> >  > from the rise of Hitler, as Shirer outlines in his book, it's to
> >  > recognize the traits that exist when a tyrant takes over a country,
> >  > or a city, or a corporation, or a non-profit organization.
> >  >
> >  > What did I learn from "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich?"
> >  >
> >  > One, nearly every government or corporate enterprise has a
> >  > shadow ruling body: industrialists, or boards of directors, who work
> >  > behind the scenes. Who are the continuing power brokers. Who
> >  > want government to run smoothly, maintaining a sense of
> >  > democracy but always protecting the privileged and the powerful
> >  > and the controllers of the purse strings. They could be
> >  > manufacturers or real estate empire kings, or a board of directors.
> >  >
> >  > When there's a crisis, economic or a sense that control is being
> >  > lost, there's a political edge that emerges. Power brokers seek out
> >  > a strong personality to take control and put things back into shape.
> >  > Usually with a blank check, unless or until it gets out of hand.
> >  > Sometimes it goes way beyond what the industrialists need. That's
> >  > when bloodshed often happens.
> >  >
> >  > There's always a law and order personality in the crowd, someone
> >  > with deep psychological, sometimes pathological, needs to be
> >  > fulfilled to take charge and to be all-powerful.  History has 
>recorded
> >  > such individuals and their rapid rise and their inevitable falls.
> >  >
> >  > If you follow the blueprint of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"
> >  > you discover that the rising tyrant needs a number of things in
> >  > place, all inter-related and to be acted upon together. Rhat would
> >  > be, one, a scapegoat or scapegoats. Two, a military or security
> >  > control, justified because of the alleged threats of the scapegoats.
> >  > Three, elimination of charismatic opposition, holders of a
> >  > democratic process.
> >  >
> >  > All of this is with the silent approval of the power brokers, the
> >  > economic controllers. We don't have to paint the picture that Hitler
> >  > and the Krupp empire drew, but look at Guiliani's administration.
> >  > The scapegoats were defined in a number of ways. It was clearly
> >  > perceived to be young, Black males. They were the police targets.
> >  > No nay-sayers were permitted in the Guiliani administration, and it
> >  > did not and has not represented the diversity of this city. And the
> >  > blockading off of City Hall reflected a bunker mentality.
> >  >
> >  > But our checks and balances, often through the courts, people
> >  > suing Guiliani, a reasonably free press and due process put a rein
> >  > on much of Guiliani's terror. But his inclinations were clear. It is
> >  > why he has frightened me.
> >  >
> >  > His fall from grace came when decent people responded to the
> >  > incredible cases of Louima, Diallo and the Dorsimond cases. And
> >  > then hizzoner's personal peccadilloes, the hypocrisy, the conflict
> >  > with his moral posturing.
> >  >
> >  > And then we come to the takeover of this station. A small blip in
> >  > the political scheme of things, but a voice that was heard with
> >  > much interest by the Democratic Party during the elections when
> >  > "too much" time was spent justifying third party realities. Pacifica
> >  > and WBAI, specifically WBAI, could be held responsible for
> >  > marginal voters going for Nader, throwing the election to Bush.
> >  >
> >  > With the former chair of the board closely tied to the outgoing
> >  > presidential administration and still the puller- of- strings at
> >  > Pacifica, serving two masters at the same time, or maybe serving
> >  > one master at the expense of the other. Three weeks after the
> >  > Supreme Court ruled that George Bush would be president, some
> >  > drastic changes took place at this little station in the middle of 
>the
> >  > FM dial.
> >  >
> >  > A scapegoat was found: she the interviewer of Bill Clinton on
> >  > Election Day; she who had Ralph Nader as her partner during the
> >  > GOP convention. The charismatic people's voices were dismissed
> >  > without warning. Fired. Locked out. And the security system went
> >  > into place.
> >  >
> >  > And the sole criteria for being part of the decision-making is 
>loyalty
> >  > to the chief. Talents long-abandoned or overlooked rose to the top,
> >  > just like Rudolph Hess in the Hitler years during the Third Reich.
> >  > For the sole measure of visibility or audibility was loyalty and
> >  > joining in the scapegoating.
> >  >
> >  > I have attempted to abide by the gag rule imposed on us, but when
> >  > I hear continual slander about my colleagues I feel that the gag rule
> >  > is tantamount to remaining silent during the rise of the Third Reich.
> >  > Amy Goodman has been verbally and now physically abused at
> >  > this station. Bernard White's name and professional skills have
> >  > been assaulted by persons who, quite candidly, can't hold a candle
> >  > to his talents.
> >  >
> >  > The interim manager of this station is irrationally obsessed by Amy
> >  > Goodman. Amy's reportorial skills, her large following and the
> >  > accolades she's received. Abuse of Amy is the sole criteria for a
> >  > place at the table at WBAI now, and slavish obedience is what is
> >  > expected. And I find all of that intolerable.
> >  >
> >  > It's all very confused, and never-defined motives are revealed as
> >  > power relished for itself. But always forgotten, for those who don't
> >  > know their history, is that every rise of a Third Reich is followed 
>by
> >  > a fall.
> >  >
> >  > Stay tuned. Pay close attention.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > 	http://savewbai.tao.ca
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > 	To unsubscribe from this list
> >  > 	email lists@... with: unsubscribe savewbai
> >  > 	or visit http://lists.tao.ca
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1975
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-22 13:58:47
Subject:Building Bridges presents Harry Belafonte over www.wbix.org
Message:

This one should not be missed...all you need are some headphones or 
speakers, and a downloaded mediaplayer...


----Original Message Follows----
From: "ken nash" <knash@...>
To: <knash@...>
CC: "WBAI In Exile" <wbaiinexile@...>
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Building Bridges presents Harry Belafonte over 
www.wbix.org
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:28:03 -0700

  WBAI RADIO IN EXILE -
presents

BUILDING BRIDGES:
Your Community and Labor Report in Exile
produced by Mimi Rosenberg and Ken Nash

Wednesday, August 22nd , 8-9pm (EST) over internet radio
  www.wbix.org
WBIX is produced by Errol Maitland and Ryme Katkhouda

Our feature story will be:

  A CONVERSATION WITH HARRY BELAFONTE
a wide ranging interview by Building Bridges' Mimi Rosenberg and
Ken Nash with Mr. Belanfonte reflecting on his life with and views about
the labor and civil rights movements over much of the last century.
Throughout Mr. Belafonte, of course, pays special attention to the role
of the media and of media  workers in the struggle for social change



  FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT "BUILDING BRIDGES"
CONTACT Ken Nash - knash@...

  FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WBAI IN EXILE CONTACT
                                          wbaiinexile@...

Please help us contact your community radio stations
to ask them to relay some of our shows.
For FM quality signal, email us at wbixtech@...
or call  (917) 225-8815

  WBAI IN EXILE is on the road traveling around the country bringing
   you 3 weeks of specials. See www.wbix.org for more information!



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1976
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-22 15:13:47
Subject:Fwd: [motherlandcollective] Outdoor Urban Theater Project - Nwk Performances
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: Elisabeth Ssenjovu <essenjovu@...>
Reply-To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motherlandcollective] Outdoor Urban Theater Project - Nwk 
Performances
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:05:03 -0700 (PDT)

  THEOUTDOOR URBAN THEATER PROJECTSUMMER 2001  �  NEWARK, NJ

FREE!!!!  POETRY � OPEN MIC � MUSIC � AFRICAN DANCE BRAZILIAN CAPOEIRA � 
PERCUSSION ENSEMBLE  FRIDAY, AUGUST 24 � 4-6PMFELIX FULD COURT 147 ROSE 
STREET (BTWN MUHAMMAD ALI & AVON AVENUES) SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 15 � 
2-4PMNEWARK FESTIVAL OF PEOPLEPSE&G PLAZA / BROAD ST & RAYMOND BLVD. / 
DOWNTOWN NEWARK FEATURING:NEW JERSEY CAPEOIRA ARTS CENTER THE 7th PRINCIPLE 
PERFORMANCE COMPANY VERSE 4 VERSE POETRY CAF� & THE JOINT THE OUTDOOR URBAN 
THEATER PROJECT (OUT)  supports resident artists, project and audience 
development through artist initiated and publicly accessible, interactive 
performance/workshops.

OUT is presented by the Newark Community Development Network.

FOR MORE INFO CONTACT MOUSE & ELEPHANT, INC @ 973.274.1660 / 
essenjovu@...



---------------------------------
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Make international calls for as low as $0.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger.


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1977
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-23 00:14:55
Subject:[IWW-News] Colombia: International Women's March Blockaded by Paramilitaries
Message:



-----Original Message-----
From: iww-news-admin@... [mailto:iww-news-admin@...]On Behalf Of
David Christian
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 7:54 AM
To: iww-news@...
Subject: [IWW-News] Colombia: International Women's March Blockaded by
Paramilitaries


International Women's March Blockaded by Paramilitaries
                     por Justin Podur 8:10pm Fri Aug 17 '01
                     justin.podur@...

   The plenary event for the international women's mobilization for
  peace has been blockaded by paramilitaries as of this morning

    BARRANCABERMEJA- August 15, 2001, reported Pablo Leal, a member of
the Canada-Colombia Solidarity Campaign's 'Minga for Life and Against
Violence', this morning. The plenary event, at the Club Infantes, is
attended by 2-3000   people, organized by the Organizacion Feminina
Popular, the Popular Women's Organization. It is part of a large
mobilization organized by the national women's organizations of
Colombia in Barrancabermeja, one of the most conflict-ridden regions
  in Colombia.

The road away from the event has been blocked by a group of several
hundred   paramilitaries. The paramilitaries are carrying signs that
accuse the mobilization of  'buying and corrupting the youth for the
insurgency', and are accusing the human rights  and peace workers of
actually working on  behalf of the insurgency. The buses that brought
people to the mobilization are parked  across the street from the Club
Infantes. The paramilitaries have stationed themselves
between the club and the buses.

   This tactic, of accusing human rights defenders and peace and
justice workers of   being tools of the insurgency, is a standard
practice of the paramilitaries and their  allies in Colombia. It is an
attempt to instill fear and to justify violent action against
peaceful, unarmed members of   civil society who are working for
social justice.

  The mobilization is certainly a peaceful, unarmed action, and is most
definitely not the   tool of any armed actor. It is a mobilization of
Colombian people, principally women,  who have suffered war and
injustice and who are seeking to be authors of peace.

  The Canada-Colombia Solidarity Campaign is on the ground,
participating in the  mobilization, and asks for international
solidarity in protecting the peaceful 'invisible
  struggles' from armed actors who cannot countenance civil and popular
movements taking action, peacefully and independently, for their own
rights and in their own
     interests.

                     Pablo Leal, CCSC, reporting

                     www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/Colombia/colo...

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Post ID:1978
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-23 20:46:23
Subject:poet
Message:

Poet
by Veronica Cunningham

i am not a quiet poet.
i want to know Truths.
Hear the reason of Dreams
Hear the wonder of Questions
I want
to hear words that travel Heart
into the World
That reflect the lights
        and darks
Escaped, or allowed
Disguised or naked
Words
Reaching your sense of Words
Truth or lies, real or trusted
Poetry is language
The language of Our Lives

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Post ID:1979
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-24 13:45:04
Subject:Response to Fred & Howard Re: Rothenberg's analysis of the fascist rule and WBAI
Message:

(I WISH TO THANK FRED N.(NJFRIENDS) & HOWARD (P.O.P.) FOR RESPONDING TO MY 
POST RE: ROTHENBERG'S ADDRESS OF SITUATION AT WBAI.  IT'S ENCOURAGING THAT 
NOT EVERYONE THINKS THIS DEBATE ALSO INVOLVING THE 2000 NATIONAL ELECTIONS 
IS EITHER FINISHED, FUTILE, OR SIMPLY A THREAT TO THEIR ASPIRATIONS.  I'VE 
DONE MY BEST TO RESPOND TO BOTH ARGUMENTS, BY WAY OF FRED'S LETTER--AND TO 
HOWARD I WOULD ONLY ADD THAT WHILE YOUR LETTER WAS VERY ARTICULATE AND 
MOVINGLY PASSIONATE, YOU NEGLECTED SOME OF THE MOST CRITICAL ISSUES I 
RAISED.  MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS BELOW -MATTHEW SMITH, UNITY & STRUGGLE)


Fred N. wrote:
Friends,This post was sent to the friends of wbai - NJ list which is not a 
discussionboard but anannouncement board which I moderate.I will not post it 
but will respond below as interspersed in CAPS:Fred N. (NJ)-


-- original message-- Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...> wrote:>> This is 
an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's> support of 
Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush &> the right 
stole the 2001 election.

Fred's Reply: There has never been an endorsement of Ralph Nader by WBAI

MY RESPONSE:(FRED- WHILE THERE ARE, NO WERE, MANY DIVERSE VOICES AT WBAI, 
THERE WAS CLEARLY A DOMINANT TREND AMONGST THE NOW �BANNED AND FIRED� WHO 
WERE THE MOST ARDENT SUPPORTERS OF NADER, AND THERE IS ALOT OF OVERLAP IN 
TERMS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE BASE OF SUPPORTERS.


-- original message-- Interesting, but one of David> Rothenburg's main 
errors (similar to what we've heard from> WBAI/naderites/greens since the 
X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead with> Hitler (Lead is a bullying 
traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, but> not a fascist & to call her 
a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 &> Co.--though WBAI coup is 
certainly part of erotion of democracy in US),> According to Rothenberg, the 
#1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, while> Bush2/Republican/REAL 
FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of proper> historic analysis) 
even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that WBAI's> support of Nader 
helped throw the election to B2!!

Fred's Reply:  I did not listen to David Rothenberg's talk, where, by the 
way, heannounces that he maynever return because he is likely to be fired 
for saying what he was saying.

MY RESPONSE:(FRED- SINCE THIS IS OUR FIRST EXCHANGE, LET ME REITERATE UP 
FRONT MY UNBENDING, BUT CRITICAL, SUPPORT FOR THE EXILE COMMUNITY AT WBAI.  
WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING THERE IS A TRAVESTY AND AN ASSAULT ON DEMOCRACY, AS 
WBAI HAS BEEN A GREAT AND NECESSARY PUBLIC INSTITUTION.  & TO BE SURE, I 
HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT I CAN TO SHOW THAT SUPPORT, (DISPENSING INFORMATION, 
ATTENDING RALLIES, MAKING PHONE CALLS), THOUGH IT NEVER FEELS LIKE ENOUGH 
WHEN EVERY WEEK ANOTHER IMPORTANT VOICE IS SILENCED....)

Fred's: Ido agree withDavid on the point that the methods used by Utrice 
Leid are common to thefascists (suppression ofspeech, intimidation/public 
humiliation, false claims of theft/violence andconstant personalattacks.  U. 
Leid also installed an 8 camera audio-video serveillance systemcomplete 
withcard-key entry system which makes Rykers Island look low tech.

MY RESPONSE:(I HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH DRAWING COMPARISONS TO THE METHODS USED 
TO LOCK OUT THE DISSENTING VOICES WITH �AUTHORITARIAN� OR �TOTALITARIAN� 
METHODS ASSOCIATED WITH A CORPORATE TAKE-OVER, BUT �FASCISM� HAS A VERY 
SPECIFIC MEANING...MY ARGUEMENT WAS IS THAT UTRICE LEID HERSELF HAS BEEN 
LABELED A �FASCIST� WITH THE SAME SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION THAT CHIDED 
SOME OF US DURING THE ELECTION FOR POINTING TO THE DANGER OF THE BUSH2CREW, 
THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT & CORPORATE FASCISTS (MORE ON THAT BELOW)

Fred's: I also agreethat the DemocraticParty has betrayed the American 
working class and is now dominated by people whoare doing thebidding of very 
large corporations and global finance interests.

MY RESPONSE:(FRED- ONLY SOME KIND OF CONFUSION THAT THE DEM�S EVER SERVED 
THE INTEREST OF THE AMREICAN W.C. WOULD LEAD ANYONE TO THINK THAT THEY HAVE 
SINCE BETRAYED THEM.  THE DEM. PARTY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BOURGEOIS PARTY, AND 
HAS ALWAYS BEEN DOMINATED BY PEOPLE DOING BIDDING OF LARGE CORPORATIONS.  
EVEN ROOSEVELT, WHO �SAVED CAPITIALISM FROM THE CAPITALISTS�.  OUR ARGUMENT 
HERE, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE ROOSEVELT THAN HITLER.  THE 
GREENS HELPED BRING US WHO?....WHAT DID ROTHENBURG SAY ABOUT SWINGING THE 
VOTE TO BUSH, AND WHY WERE THE REPUBLICANS RUNNING NADER ADS DURING THE 
CAMPAIGN?

Fred's: The fact that Amy Goodman reported on Nader does not mean that WBAI 
was a station controlled by the Greens.

MY RESPONSE:(IT WAS A DOMINANT TREND)


-- original message-- There's a deep imbalance> of perspective that needs to 
be corrected here in terms of the Green Party> histortic role in 2001, 
causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and Rep's> as no worse. 
(Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green voting> base!!

Fred's Reply:  The Dems are not a threat to the Greens, the Greens did not 
defeat Al Gore.  Al Gore and the DNC and massive corporate-sponsored 
campaigning turned off voters and defeated Al Gore.  Half of all registers 
don't vote.  Half a billion dollars worth of corporatecontributions did not 
change that.

MY RESPONSE:(HOLY MACKERAL! AL GORE WON! THIS IS WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY THE 
GREENS AS WELL AS MUCH OF THE, DARE I SAY, PETIT-BOURG �LEFT�, DE FACTO, 
GIVE BUSH2 & THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT A FREE PASS.  RECALL THAT WHEN THE 
ELECTION WAS BEING STOLEN IN FLORIDA & BY D.C.�S OBSCENE COURT, NOT FROM 
GORE, MIND YOU, BUT FROM THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO DID VOTE, THE NADER 
SUPPORTERS WENT WHERE?  BACK TO SEATTLE FOR �GLOBALIZATION PROTEST, PART 
II�- UNFORTUNATELY, NADER AND THE GREENS ALLOWED THEIR, MORE-OR-LESS WELL 
INTENDED, MAINLY WHITE & MIDDLE-CLASS, CONSTITUENCY BELIEVE THAT IT WAS 
BETTER TO *PROTEST* GLOBAL IMPERIALISM THAN TO *SEIZE POWER* FROM ITS MOST 
JINGOISTIC, BACKWARD,& REACTIONARY REPRESENTATIVES (ie: the f-f-FASCISTS) AS 
THEY WERE BUSY UNDERMINING THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL VOTE, TRAMPLING ON THE 
VOTER RIGHTS ACT OF 1964, AND THROWING THE 13TH, 14TH, & 15TH AMMENDMENTS 
OUT THE SCARY WINDOW�-ALL OF WHICH, OF COURSE, AFFECT THE POOREST AND 
OPPRESSED NATIONALISTIES MOST AND FIRST.


-- original message-- To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, suburban Montclair 
was there, but> not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., let alone the 
working class> from any town)  This same opportunism causes the P.B., esp. 
on the left, to> think that only when it comes for THEM, then it's worthy of 
the name> fascism!

Fred's Reply:  Actually, Ralph Nader did have some very large popular 
rallies around the country that were not covered by the mass medias.  It's a 
bitch to try to be prez without money and free publicity from the corporate 
medias.  WBAI was doing what it's mission states: air the voices of dissent 
that are not presented anywhere else.

MY RESPONSE:(AS WBAI SHOULD, NO DOUBT...BUT THE PROBLEM AGAIN WITH THE GREEN 
PARTY STRATEGY IS THAT THEY HAVE WANTED THE HEAD WITHOUT BUILDING THE BODY.  
WELL BEFORE NADER CAME STROLLING, LA-DI-DA, INTO THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN SOME 
TIME LATE- WAY BACK DURING THE PRIMARY SEASON, �UNITY & STRUGGLE� ISSUED THE 
CALL TO FORM A �LEFT-BLOC� UNITED FRONT TO �MARCH SEPERATELY, STRIKE 
TOGETHER� AGAINST THE FAR-RIGHT IN GERNERAL,  TO PUSH BRADLEY TO THE LEFT IN 
OPPOSITION TO GORE, AND TO AIM SPECIFIC BLOWS AT, FOR INSTANCE, THE CLOSED 
BOURGEOIS DEBATE FORUM AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE (IMAGINE!).  BUT ALSO TO 
RUN CAMPAIGNS WHERE WE CAN WIN! (CONCRETELY: WE HAD A CITY COUNCIL RACE IN 
NEW BRUNSWICK IN 2000 WHERE WE UNITED WITH GREENS ON A �PEOPLES� DEMOCRACY� 
CAMPAIGN, & NOW WE ARE BACKING RAS BARAKA2002 FOR CITY COUNCIL IN NEWARK.)  
BUT LOOK! HERE COME THE NJGREENS AGAIN, UNCRITICALLY, THREATENING WITH THE 
SAME BLUNDER THAT BROUGHT US B2, NOW IN AN ABSOLUTELY UNWINABLE GUBENETORIAL 
RACE IN NJ, DECLARING THAT THERE�S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CENTRIST-PUPPET 
MCGREEVY AND FAR-RIGHT IDEOLOGUE SCHUNDLER, OR AT LEAST NOT ENOUGH FOR THE 
NJGREENS TO INSTEAD ENDORSE A LEFT-BLOC UNITED FRONT STRATEGY�THEIR PROBLEM 
(WHICH IS NOW OUR PROBLEM) IS THAT THEY WANT TO GO IT ALONE, RATHER THAN 
JOINING IN A UNITED FRONT TO RUN CAMPAIGNS  WHERE WE CAN WIN, AND YES, 
UNITING AGAINST THE WORSE EVIL IN THE SHORT-TERM.   (BUSH/SCHUNDLER) 
OPPORTUNISM IS ESSENTIALLY SACRIFICING THE LONG-TERM GOAL FOR THE SHORT 
TERM.  THIS IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH I APPLY THE TERM TO THE GREEN PARTY 
STRATEGY.


-- original message-- Yet, how many more times will we hear many of the same 
people say,> "It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real fascists) 
because it will> only strengthen the resisitance"Reply:  Someone said that?  
Who? David Rothenberg?  Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar in> the 
1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending Amy Goodman> & 
Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to this mess.

Fred's Reply:  What led to this mess is the Corporation for Public 
Broadcasting funding which allowed board members from large corporations to 
be named to the Pacifica Board and a Series of executives with connections 
with the Clinton administration to take over Pacifica and undertake its 
destruction.

MY RESPONSE:(FRED- THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHERE THE DOMINANT TREND OF 
GREEN SUPPORT AT THE OLD WBAI AND THE GREEN PARTY ITSELF, IF NOT DE JURY 
THEN DE FACTO, ESPOUSE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS A GREATER THREAT TO THEM 
THAN THE REPUBLICAN AND FAR-RIGHT.  THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE AN INTRIGUING 
CASE TO BE MADE THAT UTRICE LEID & CO. REPRESENT THE STRONG-ARM OF A 
DEMOCRATIC PARTY TAKE-OVER AND �NPR�-ING OF WBAI (& WE ALL KNOW THAT 
CORPORATE �UNDERWRITING� IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER) AGAIN, AS I SAID, ONLY 
THE CONFUSED NOTION THAT THE BOURGEOISIE�S DEMOCRATIC PARTY EVER WORKED IN 
THE TRUE INTERESTS OF THE W.C. WOULD STIR UP THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION 
THAT FOLLOWS BETRAYAL.  BUT WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THIS TAKE-OVER OF WBAI DOES 
NOT EXIST IN ISOLATION FROM THE CORPORATE TAKE-OVER OF ALL SPHERES OF PUBLIC 
LIFE & CULTURE?  HOW LONG HAS NPR BEEN RUNNIN LEXUS ADS AFTER ALL?  HOW 
ABOUT THE COOPTATION OF HIP-HOP?  JAZZ?  THE BLUES?  IF YOU READ AMIRI 
BARAKA�S RECENT SLAMMING OF THE ENSUING COOPTATION OF SLAM-POETRY, YOU�LL 
SEE THE SAME TREND.  THIS IS AS OLD AS CONSTANTINE�S �CONVERSION� TO 
CHRISTIANITY.  THE DIFFERENCE WITH WBAI IS THAT IT�S SUCH A VITAL COMPONENT 
OF THE REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRATIC STRUGGLE AND LOSING IT AS A RESOURCE IS 
STILL BIZARRELY UNTHINKABLE.  BUT SO WHAT IF WE CAN AGREE THAT THE DEMOCRATS 
ARE THE IMMEDIATE ASSASSINES.  THIS DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT 
WHILE IMPERIALISM IS TAKING OVER MORE AND MORE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS (BTW, MR. 
JERRY COLEMAN- SCHUNDLER WANTS TO PRIVATIZE LIBRARIES!!) THE **ENTIRE 
POLITICAL SPECTRUM** HAS SHIFTED RIGHT.  NOT JUST, SIMPLY, AND/OR ONLY THE 
DEMOCRATS, VIA NEW-DEM CLINTON, AS THE GREENS PROFESS WHEN THEY SUGGEST THE 
MORPHING OF THE TWO PARTIES!  THIS IS OBJECTIVE AND IRREFUTABLE, ONE WOULD 
THINK.

Fred's: David Rothenberg knows.  Al Lewis knows.  Bob Lederer, Robert 
Knight, Juan Gonzales, Deepa Fernandes, Mimi Rosenberg, Verna Avery Brown, 
Mario Murillo, Ken Nash and Bernard White's Wake Up Call's crew know. The 
democratic party will not save us.  They are running the same national 
security state and prison/military industrial complex with the same motives 
of fear, greed and hubris than their republican friends.

MY RESPONSE:(YES, YES.  INOTHERWORDS, THEY ARE ALL IMERIALISTS.  LET�S CALL 
IT WHAT IT IS.)


Fred's: Wake up Matt,

(PRESENTE!)

WBAI and Pacifica were the ALTERNATIVE RADIO.  After that, yes, the fascist 
state will have silenced us and few Democrats will have said a thing.

MY RESPONSE:(AGREED.  NOW LET US UNITE TO:RIP DOWN THE CONFEDERATE 
FLAG!ABOLISH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!BEAT BACK SCHUNDLER!SEIZE POWER 
EVERYWHERE THAT REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY CAN ADVANCE!AND, FINALLY, UTELIZE 
REASON & SCIENCE AS WELL AS PASSION....IN THE STRUGGLE FOR UNITY  -MATTHEW 
SMITH)




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Post ID:1980
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-24 13:47:36
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] NATIONAL DAY OF SOLIDARITY WITH DEMOCRACY NOW!
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "ken nash" <knash@...>
To: <knash@...>
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] NATIONAL DAY OF SOLIDARITY WITH DEMOCRACY NOW!
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:09:33 -0700

A Call to Action from Media Alliance and the Pacifica Campaign

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NATIONAL DAY OF SOLIDARITY WITH DEMOCRACY NOW!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

When: Tuesday, August 28
Where: Your Local Pacifica or community radio station
What: Show solidarity with Amy Goodman and the Democracy Now! staff

Tuesday, August 28,7:30 a.m. to 10 a.m. we're having a
major demonstration in front of 120 Wall St. We're
going there to show them that we mean business: Hands
off Amy and Democracy Now! is our theme.

Amy Goodman and the Democracy Now! team have been suspended without pay
for insisting on violence-free workplace. And Democracy Now!, which is
being produced from a safe site in lower Manhattan and not Pacifica
station WBAI, has been yanked off the air.

At WBAI, the Democracy Now! staff have been physically and verbally
attacked by interim station manager Utrice Leid and other Leid
loyalists. When Pacifica senior management ignored their repeated
written requests that something be done about the intolerable
atmosphere of intimidation and threats, they felt they had no choice
but to fashion some interim solution last week
and find a safe and secure workplace to produce the show.

No worker should be forced to report to a job site where they are
physically attacked by supervisors and where staff members go on the
air to urge their physical destruction. Let's stand in solidarity with
Democracy Now! on Tuesday, August 28.

WHAT YOU CAN DO

1. Make a contribution to the Pacifica Campaign, a grass-roots
organization representing listeners and staff alike, fighting to
preserve Pacifica's 50-year tradition of progressive, community-based
radio. Tax deductible contributions may be made to our fiscal sponsor,
a 501 (c) (3) organization. Make checks payable to: Institute for Media
Analysis-Pacifica Campaign. Our mailing address: The Pacifica Campaign,
51 MacDougal St., #80, NY, NY 10012

2. Please call, fax, e-mail or mail the individuals listed below.
Contact them as many times possible until you feel that your voice has
been heard. Your phone calls are important. Keep the message
straightforward, no profanity or name calling. Demand the immediate
dismissals of Pacifica Executive Director Bessie Wash and WBAI station
manager Utrice Leid. The Pacifica Campaign will organize a national
call in for Tuesday, August 28.

                                             WHO TO CONTACT
Pacifica Board Vice Chair Ken Ford
Tel: 800-368-5242 ext. 228
Tel: (301) 350-6388
Fax: 202-822-0369
E-mail: kenfordpacifica@..., kford@...

Ken Ford's boss at the National Association of Home Builders:
Jerry Howard, CEO 800-368-5242 ext. 257
E-mail: jhoward@...
Ask that the NAHB's Ken Ford resign from the Pacifica Board today

Pacifica Board member Valerie Chambers
Tel: 361-825-6012 Fax: 281-655-0266
E-mail: Valrie.Chambers@..., valriechambers@...

Pacifica Board member Wendell L. Johns
Tel: 202-752-5355 Fax: 202-752-4281
E-mail: wendell_L_johns@...

Pacifica Board member Bob Farrel
Tel: 310-514-2052
E-mail: alfigo@...

Cut the below list of email addresses, paste it into the To: line  of
your email composition form. Also go to:
http://www.progressiveportal.org/letters/pacifica/resign/

jspacifica@..., uleid@..., sypacifica@...,
kford@..., KenFordPacifica@..., jmurdock@...,
wendell_L_johns@..., Alfigo@..., valriechambers@...,
Valrie.Chambers@..., jhoward@...,
bsmith@..., pacificacampaign@..., ghessing@...

*********************
The Pacifica Campaign is a grass-roots organization representing listeners 
and staff alike, fighting to preserve Pacifica's 50-year tradition of 
progressive, community-based radio. For more info to to: 
http://www.pacificacampaign.org

Pacifica Campaign 51 MacDougal St., #80 , New York, NY  10012  -  (646) 
230-9588



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Post ID:1981
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-26 01:14:55
Subject:red menace
Message:

Government releases more than 600
                     boxes of records from panel seeking
                     communist moles

                     By DEB RIECHMANN
                     The Associated Press
                     8/25/01 12:59 AM

                     WASHINGTON (AP) -- During the hunt for communists in 
the 1940s,
                     congressional investigators heard hours of secret 
testimony about how
                     left-wingers in the movie industry were trying to paint 
Tinseltown red.

                     Newly released transcripts reveal the House Committee 
on Un-American
                     Activities was told that Soviet sympathizers made a 
science out of
                     seeding films with communist propaganda.

                     Actors, screenwriters and producers -- mostly friendly 
witnesses with
                     anti-communist views -- testified in Los Angeles in the 
late 1940s that
                     communists infiltrated trade unions, slipped jabs at 
capitalism into scripts
                     and schooled young actors on how to inject pro-Soviet 
doctrine into
                     scenes.

                     "Hollywood is one of the main centers of communist 
activities in America
                     due to the fact that our greatest medium for propaganda 
-- the motion
                     pictures -- is located here," actor Adolphe Menjou 
testified in a
                     closed-door May 1947 hearing. "It is the desire of the 
masters in Moscow
                     to use this medium for their purposes, which is for the 
overthrow of the
                     American government."

                     It's been more than 50 years since members of the 
committee took their
                     anti-communism bandwagon to California and summoned 
Hollywood
                     figures to testify at public hearings, which led to 
blacklisting of some of
                     filmdom's most famous names and ruined hundreds of 
careers. What
                     witnesses told the committee in executive session has 
been sealed until
                     now.

                     The National Archives released more than 600 boxes of 
records this
                     month from the committee's investigations of Hollywood, 
the Ku Klux
                     Klan, American Nazis, civil rights and anti-war 
activists, atomic espionage
                     and the case of Alger Hiss, a former State Department 
official accused of
                     being a communist spy. The Klan probe was stopped after 
the the
                     committee's chief counsel, Ernest Adamson, announced 
the panel did
                     not have enough data to investigate.

                     The publicity the committee generated from its 
Hollywood investigation
                     prevented the Communist Party USA from "raising 
significant amounts of
                     money to propagandize the American public through an 
instrument
                     designed for entertainment," Herb Romerstein, an 
investigator for the
                     committee from 1965 to 1975, said in an interview 
Friday.

                     Kenneth Lloyd Billingsley, a California author who 
wrote a book that said
                     communists seduced the film industry, agreed.

                     "Their ultimate objective was to co-opt the industry. 
It was a very bold
                     plan. They came close, but they ultimately failed," 
Billingsley said Friday.
                     He said the committee wrongly focused on the content of 
movies instead
                     of how communists infiltrated Hollywood unions.

                     "The hearings were a circus," Billingsley said. "I 
think they discredited
                     themselves and wasted a lot of time and gave the 
Communist Party a real
                     publicity coup."

                     The communists worked in insidious ways, screenwriter 
Jack Moffitt told
                     the committee in 1947.

                     He testified that John Howard Lawson, a writer, member 
of the American
                     Communist Party and founder of the Screen Writers 
Guild, advised him to
                     "try to get five minutes of left-wing doctrine into 
every script you write."

                     Moffitt said Lawson told him to write the Soviet 
propaganda into scenes
                     involving highly paid actors or many extras because 
executives wouldn't
                     be so quick to cut or re-shoot expensive scenes.

                     "If you are merely an extra playing a member of a 
country club, play it in a
                     way that will invite prejudice against the class 
represented," Lawson
                     advised acting students, according to Moffitt. "If you 
are an extra in a
                     street scene of a tenement district or in any poor 
surrounding, play your
                     part to excite sympathy."

                     Jack Warner, then vice president of Warner Bros., told 
the committee that
                     subtle communist references were tough to excise.

                     "Some of these lines have innuendoes and double 
meanings and things
                     like that, and you have to take eight or 10 Harvard law 
courses to find out
                     what they mean," he said.

                     The transcripts revealed that the committee went so far 
as to look at tax
                     records. Chief investigator Robert Stripling said he 
had seen a return of
                     screenwriter Donald Ogden Stewart, which showed 
contributions to front
                     organizations.

                     Then Stripling said Stewart, to show contempt for the 
American economic
                     system, claimed 35 cents in deductions, including a 
25-cent donation to
                     the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

                     Romerstein said looking at tax records was not a usual 
committee
                     practice.

                     "That's the first I've ever heard of that," he said. 
"It was not something
                     that was routinely done, or could have been done. It 
was a violation of
                     the law. The IRS did not turn such records over to 
Congress."

                     Not all the witnesses were friendly.

                     On May 12, 1947, committee members called Johannes 
Eisler, whose
                     brother was believed to be a top leader of the 
Communist Party in
                     America. Believing the committee was on a witch hunt, 
Eisler, who
                     composed music for movies, intentionally dodged 
questions about his
                     trips to the Soviet Union and whether he attended 
Communist Party
                     meetings.

                     Stripling suggested Eisler might be lying but said his 
accusation was "not
                     on-the-record."

                     "Of course not. Not anything decent or fair would get 
on the record," said
                     Eisler's attorney, Ben Margolis.

                     "I can sue you for calling me a liar," Eisler chimed 
in.

                     The transcript of one closed hearing showed committee 
members
                     complaining about the lack of movies with anti-Soviet 
themes -- films that
                     would balance the likes of "Mission to Moscow," which 
flattered Soviet
                     leader Josef Stalin.

                     Committee chairman J. Parnell Thomas, R-N.J., went so 
far as to suggest
                     a plot line to an MGM executive of a movie showing 
Soviet troops,
                     although allies, shooting down U.S. planes.

                     "It would show that even then, when we were fighting 
side by side, hell,
                     there was no cooperation at all," Thomas said.

                     Another committee member, Rep. John McDowell, R-Pa., 
was offended.

                     Pro-Soviet films are "sowing the communist mind," he 
said, but it would be
                     just as easy for Hollywood to go too far the other way. 
"I think that
                     pictures ought to stay in the pure field of 
entertainment," he said.

                     ------

                     On the Net: National Archives: http://www.nara.gov

                      Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may not be
                                 published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.

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Post ID:1982
Sender:"Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-27 20:12:38
Subject:Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
Message:

I hope these are my last mumblings on this subject.

IF nothing else, candidates such as Nader and Coleman help to bring up
issues most critical to the well-being of the community. When their message
reaches the public, it serves to hold the leading contenders' feet to the
fire.
The major point of dispute is whether a 3rd party candidate will cause [has
caused] the loss of the least crappy of the two leading contenders.
If we all keep voting for Gores and McGreevys, election after election, how
does it suddenly become possible for a true progressive to ever win -- the
public will not have heard of that person before?!

In the absence of a Hitler-like main contender, a rational path could be
to put adequate resources into supporting progressive Assembly,
Senate and Council candidates -- who control legislation, and take the
Chinese long view of the Governorship by continuing to put up worthy
candidates for that office, even tho it may allow the greater of 2 evils to
win. If the PEOPLE don't get the message of their bad decision in short
order, then the people are the problem. Meanwhile the 3rd party candidate
and party should keep up the promotion of their better ideas BETWEEN
elections to keep the education of the public rolling and to prime the
public awareness for the next election.

On the national scene, either Nader and the Green Party have failed to TRY
do this since the Supreme Court COUP, or the masses have not gotten the
Green Party's continuing message
for other reasons [lack of GP funds, ostracized from public media outlets,
...]

If it's a Hitler vs a Crap in a close race next time, it would be suicide to
vote for 3rd, 4th, 5th party candidates. Germany learned and taught us that
back in the late 1920's and 1930's. Short of that kind of choice, a worthy
3rd party candidate exposes and infects the general populace with a better
TRUTH, exposes lies, and proposes plans for a better way.

In the absence of reasonably detailed plans [including sources of funding
for the plan] presented to support the progressive program planks, the
public should assume the candidate is so full of crap that it's overflowing
as political blather, sentimental rather than hard-headed sensible..

In a democracy I don't see a better, less painful way to get the job done
after decades of political neglect BY THE VOTING AGE PUBLIC. If we
externalize the problem onto rotten politicians, we compound the problem by
not owning it as OUR personal responsibility or lack thereof in being
participants in our own democratic government.

We need a gahdam Revolution in what it means to be a citizen; maybe the
coming economic collapse will kick us all in the cortex and colon.

I applaud and admire your continuing efforts to register, educate and get
the vote out.
If I am not a complete slimeball, I'll join you on Sat and/or Sundays.
Regarding Leid's management techniques and Fascism as applied to business,
'If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and floats like a duck,
and flies like a duck, and ducks the truth like a duck, and looks like duck,
is it really a ventriliquising goose, or is it PERHAPS a duck?'

Up justice.

Horrid

P.S. How can we believe the latest poll of 395 people as indicating McGreevy
has a very large lead over Schundler, when we don't know whether the
demographics of the 395 polled match the demographics of the millions of
expected-to-vote citizens. I admit my blatant ignorance of statistics, but
how can they calculate a margin of error without knowing the true outcome of
the election against which to compare their statistical sample of 395? What
are all of the assumptions made in this report? Are we being lulled into
complacency like Dewey was in his race against Truman?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>; <siddharta5@...>;
<savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>;
<amirib@...>; <MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>;
<jmodibo@...>; <Paul4sure@...>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:45 PM
Subject: [poprogress] Response to Fred & Howard Re: Rothenberg's analysis of
the fascist rule and WBAI


> (I WISH TO THANK FRED N.(NJFRIENDS) & HOWARD (P.O.P.) FOR RESPONDING TO MY
> POST RE: ROTHENBERG'S ADDRESS OF SITUATION AT WBAI.  IT'S ENCOURAGING THAT
> NOT EVERYONE THINKS THIS DEBATE ALSO INVOLVING THE 2000 NATIONAL ELECTIONS
> IS EITHER FINISHED, FUTILE, OR SIMPLY A THREAT TO THEIR ASPIRATIONS.  I'VE
> DONE MY BEST TO RESPOND TO BOTH ARGUMENTS, BY WAY OF FRED'S LETTER--AND TO
> HOWARD I WOULD ONLY ADD THAT WHILE YOUR LETTER WAS VERY ARTICULATE AND
> MOVINGLY PASSIONATE, YOU NEGLECTED SOME OF THE MOST CRITICAL ISSUES I
> RAISED.  MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS BELOW -MATTHEW SMITH, UNITY & STRUGGLE)
>
>
> Fred N. wrote:
> Friends,This post was sent to the friends of wbai - NJ list which is not a
> discussionboard but anannouncement board which I moderate.I will not post
it
> but will respond below as interspersed in CAPS:Fred N. (NJ)-
>
>
> -- original message-- Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...> wrote:>> This
is
> an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's> support of
> Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush &> the right
> stole the 2001 election.
>
> Fred's Reply: There has never been an endorsement of Ralph Nader by WBAI
>
> MY RESPONSE:(FRED- WHILE THERE ARE, NO WERE, MANY DIVERSE VOICES AT WBAI,
> THERE WAS CLEARLY A DOMINANT TREND AMONGST THE NOW 'BANNED AND FIRED' WHO
> WERE THE MOST ARDENT SUPPORTERS OF NADER, AND THERE IS ALOT OF OVERLAP IN
> TERMS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE BASE OF SUPPORTERS.
>
>
> -- original message-- Interesting, but one of David> Rothenburg's main
> errors (similar to what we've heard from> WBAI/naderites/greens since the
> X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead with> Hitler (Lead is a bullying
> traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, but> not a fascist & to call
her
> a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 &> Co.--though WBAI coup is
> certainly part of erotion of democracy in US),> According to Rothenberg,
the
> #1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, while> Bush2/Republican/REAL
> FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of proper> historic analysis)
> even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that WBAI's> support of
Nader
> helped throw the election to B2!!
>
> Fred's Reply:  I did not listen to David Rothenberg's talk, where, by the
> way, heannounces that he maynever return because he is likely to be fired
> for saying what he was saying.
>
> MY RESPONSE:(FRED- SINCE THIS IS OUR FIRST EXCHANGE, LET ME REITERATE UP
> FRONT MY UNBENDING, BUT CRITICAL, SUPPORT FOR THE EXILE COMMUNITY AT WBAI.
> WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING THERE IS A TRAVESTY AND AN ASSAULT ON DEMOCRACY,
AS
> WBAI HAS BEEN A GREAT AND NECESSARY PUBLIC INSTITUTION.  & TO BE SURE, I
> HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT I CAN TO SHOW THAT SUPPORT, (DISPENSING INFORMATION,
> ATTENDING RALLIES, MAKING PHONE CALLS), THOUGH IT NEVER FEELS LIKE ENOUGH
> WHEN EVERY WEEK ANOTHER IMPORTANT VOICE IS SILENCED....)
>
> Fred's: Ido agree withDavid on the point that the methods used by Utrice
> Leid are common to thefascists (suppression ofspeech, intimidation/public
> humiliation, false claims of theft/violence andconstant personalattacks.
U.
> Leid also installed an 8 camera audio-video serveillance systemcomplete
> withcard-key entry system which makes Rykers Island look low tech.
>
> MY RESPONSE:(I HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH DRAWING COMPARISONS TO THE METHODS
USED
> TO LOCK OUT THE DISSENTING VOICES WITH 'AUTHORITARIAN' OR 'TOTALITARIAN'
> METHODS ASSOCIATED WITH A CORPORATE TAKE-OVER, BUT 'FASCISM' HAS A VERY
> SPECIFIC MEANING...MY ARGUEMENT WAS IS THAT UTRICE LEID HERSELF HAS BEEN
> LABELED A 'FASCIST' WITH THE SAME SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION THAT CHIDED
> SOME OF US DURING THE ELECTION FOR POINTING TO THE DANGER OF THE
BUSH2CREW,
> THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT & CORPORATE FASCISTS (MORE ON THAT BELOW)
>
> Fred's: I also agreethat the DemocraticParty has betrayed the American
> working class and is now dominated by people whoare doing thebidding of
very
> large corporations and global finance interests.
>
> MY RESPONSE:(FRED- ONLY SOME KIND OF CONFUSION THAT THE DEM'S EVER SERVED
> THE INTEREST OF THE AMREICAN W.C. WOULD LEAD ANYONE TO THINK THAT THEY
HAVE
> SINCE BETRAYED THEM.  THE DEM. PARTY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BOURGEOIS PARTY,
AND
> HAS ALWAYS BEEN DOMINATED BY PEOPLE DOING BIDDING OF LARGE CORPORATIONS.
> EVEN ROOSEVELT, WHO "SAVED CAPITIALISM FROM THE CAPITALISTS".  OUR
ARGUMENT
> HERE, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE ROOSEVELT THAN HITLER.  THE
> GREENS HELPED BRING US WHO?....WHAT DID ROTHENBURG SAY ABOUT SWINGING THE
> VOTE TO BUSH, AND WHY WERE THE REPUBLICANS RUNNING NADER ADS DURING THE
> CAMPAIGN?
>
> Fred's: The fact that Amy Goodman reported on Nader does not mean that
WBAI
> was a station controlled by the Greens.
>
> MY RESPONSE:(IT WAS A DOMINANT TREND)
>
>
> -- original message-- There's a deep imbalance> of perspective that needs
to
> be corrected here in terms of the Green Party> histortic role in 2001,
> causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and Rep's> as no worse.
> (Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green voting> base!!
>
> Fred's Reply:  The Dems are not a threat to the Greens, the Greens did not
> defeat Al Gore.  Al Gore and the DNC and massive corporate-sponsored
> campaigning turned off voters and defeated Al Gore.  Half of all registers
> don't vote.  Half a billion dollars worth of corporatecontributions did
not
> change that.
>
> MY RESPONSE:(HOLY MACKERAL! AL GORE WON! THIS IS WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY
THE
> GREENS AS WELL AS MUCH OF THE, DARE I SAY, PETIT-BOURG 'LEFT', DE FACTO,
> GIVE BUSH2 & THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT A FREE PASS.  RECALL THAT WHEN THE
> ELECTION WAS BEING STOLEN IN FLORIDA & BY D.C.'S OBSCENE COURT, NOT FROM
> GORE, MIND YOU, BUT FROM THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO DID VOTE, THE NADER
> SUPPORTERS WENT WHERE?  BACK TO SEATTLE FOR "GLOBALIZATION PROTEST, PART
> II"- UNFORTUNATELY, NADER AND THE GREENS ALLOWED THEIR, MORE-OR-LESS WELL
> INTENDED, MAINLY WHITE & MIDDLE-CLASS, CONSTITUENCY BELIEVE THAT IT WAS
> BETTER TO *PROTEST* GLOBAL IMPERIALISM THAN TO *SEIZE POWER* FROM ITS MOST
> JINGOISTIC, BACKWARD,& REACTIONARY REPRESENTATIVES (ie: the f-f-FASCISTS)
AS
> THEY WERE BUSY UNDERMINING THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL VOTE, TRAMPLING ON THE
> VOTER RIGHTS ACT OF 1964, AND THROWING THE 13TH, 14TH, & 15TH AMMENDMENTS
> OUT THE SCARY WINDOW--ALL OF WHICH, OF COURSE, AFFECT THE POOREST AND
> OPPRESSED NATIONALISTIES MOST AND FIRST.
>
>
> -- original message-- To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, suburban
Montclair
> was there, but> not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., let alone
the
> working class> from any town)  This same opportunism causes the P.B., esp.
> on the left, to> think that only when it comes for THEM, then it's worthy
of
> the name> fascism!
>
> Fred's Reply:  Actually, Ralph Nader did have some very large popular
> rallies around the country that were not covered by the mass medias.  It's
a
> bitch to try to be prez without money and free publicity from the
corporate
> medias.  WBAI was doing what it's mission states: air the voices of
dissent
> that are not presented anywhere else.
>
> MY RESPONSE:(AS WBAI SHOULD, NO DOUBT...BUT THE PROBLEM AGAIN WITH THE
GREEN
> PARTY STRATEGY IS THAT THEY HAVE WANTED THE HEAD WITHOUT BUILDING THE
BODY.
> WELL BEFORE NADER CAME STROLLING, LA-DI-DA, INTO THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN
SOME
> TIME LATE- WAY BACK DURING THE PRIMARY SEASON, "UNITY & STRUGGLE" ISSUED
THE
> CALL TO FORM A 'LEFT-BLOC' UNITED FRONT TO "MARCH SEPERATELY, STRIKE
> TOGETHER" AGAINST THE FAR-RIGHT IN GERNERAL,  TO PUSH BRADLEY TO THE LEFT
IN
> OPPOSITION TO GORE, AND TO AIM SPECIFIC BLOWS AT, FOR INSTANCE, THE CLOSED
> BOURGEOIS DEBATE FORUM AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE (IMAGINE!).  BUT ALSO TO
> RUN CAMPAIGNS WHERE WE CAN WIN! (CONCRETELY: WE HAD A CITY COUNCIL RACE IN
> NEW BRUNSWICK IN 2000 WHERE WE UNITED WITH GREENS ON A "PEOPLES'
DEMOCRACY"
> CAMPAIGN, & NOW WE ARE BACKING RAS BARAKA2002 FOR CITY COUNCIL IN NEWARK.)
> BUT LOOK! HERE COME THE NJGREENS AGAIN, UNCRITICALLY, THREATENING WITH THE
> SAME BLUNDER THAT BROUGHT US B2, NOW IN AN ABSOLUTELY UNWINABLE
GUBENETORIAL
> RACE IN NJ, DECLARING THAT THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CENTRIST-PUPPET
> MCGREEVY AND FAR-RIGHT IDEOLOGUE SCHUNDLER, OR AT LEAST NOT ENOUGH FOR THE
> NJGREENS TO INSTEAD ENDORSE A LEFT-BLOC UNITED FRONT STRATEGY-THEIR
PROBLEM
> (WHICH IS NOW OUR PROBLEM) IS THAT THEY WANT TO GO IT ALONE, RATHER THAN
> JOINING IN A UNITED FRONT TO RUN CAMPAIGNS  WHERE WE CAN WIN, AND YES,
> UNITING AGAINST THE WORSE EVIL IN THE SHORT-TERM.   (BUSH/SCHUNDLER)
> OPPORTUNISM IS ESSENTIALLY SACRIFICING THE LONG-TERM GOAL FOR THE SHORT
> TERM.  THIS IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH I APPLY THE TERM TO THE GREEN PARTY
> STRATEGY.
>
>
> -- original message-- Yet, how many more times will we hear many of the
same
> people say,> "It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real fascists)
> because it will> only strengthen the resisitance"Reply:  Someone said
that?
> Who? David Rothenberg?  Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar in> the
> 1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending Amy Goodman>
&
> Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to this mess.
>
> Fred's Reply:  What led to this mess is the Corporation for Public
> Broadcasting funding which allowed board members from large corporations
to
> be named to the Pacifica Board and a Series of executives with connections
> with the Clinton administration to take over Pacifica and undertake its
> destruction.
>
> MY RESPONSE:(FRED- THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHERE THE DOMINANT TREND OF
> GREEN SUPPORT AT THE OLD WBAI AND THE GREEN PARTY ITSELF, IF NOT DE JURY
> THEN DE FACTO, ESPOUSE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS A GREATER THREAT TO
THEM
> THAN THE REPUBLICAN AND FAR-RIGHT.  THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE AN INTRIGUING
> CASE TO BE MADE THAT UTRICE LEID & CO. REPRESENT THE STRONG-ARM OF A
> DEMOCRATIC PARTY TAKE-OVER AND 'NPR'-ING OF WBAI (& WE ALL KNOW THAT
> CORPORATE 'UNDERWRITING' IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER) AGAIN, AS I SAID, ONLY
> THE CONFUSED NOTION THAT THE BOURGEOISIE'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY EVER WORKED IN
> THE TRUE INTERESTS OF THE W.C. WOULD STIR UP THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS
INDIGNATION
> THAT FOLLOWS BETRAYAL.  BUT WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THIS TAKE-OVER OF WBAI
DOES
> NOT EXIST IN ISOLATION FROM THE CORPORATE TAKE-OVER OF ALL SPHERES OF
PUBLIC
> LIFE & CULTURE?  HOW LONG HAS NPR BEEN RUNNIN LEXUS ADS AFTER ALL?  HOW
> ABOUT THE COOPTATION OF HIP-HOP?  JAZZ?  THE BLUES?  IF YOU READ AMIRI
> BARAKA'S RECENT SLAMMING OF THE ENSUING COOPTATION OF SLAM-POETRY, YOU'LL
> SEE THE SAME TREND.  THIS IS AS OLD AS CONSTANTINE'S "CONVERSION" TO
> CHRISTIANITY.  THE DIFFERENCE WITH WBAI IS THAT IT'S SUCH A VITAL
COMPONENT
> OF THE REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRATIC STRUGGLE AND LOSING IT AS A RESOURCE IS
> STILL BIZARRELY UNTHINKABLE.  BUT SO WHAT IF WE CAN AGREE THAT THE
DEMOCRATS
> ARE THE IMMEDIATE ASSASSINES.  THIS DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT
> WHILE IMPERIALISM IS TAKING OVER MORE AND MORE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS (BTW,
MR.
> JERRY COLEMAN- SCHUNDLER WANTS TO PRIVATIZE LIBRARIES!!) THE **ENTIRE
> POLITICAL SPECTRUM** HAS SHIFTED RIGHT.  NOT JUST, SIMPLY, AND/OR ONLY THE
> DEMOCRATS, VIA NEW-DEM CLINTON, AS THE GREENS PROFESS WHEN THEY SUGGEST
THE
> MORPHING OF THE TWO PARTIES!  THIS IS OBJECTIVE AND IRREFUTABLE, ONE WOULD
> THINK.
>
> Fred's: David Rothenberg knows.  Al Lewis knows.  Bob Lederer, Robert
> Knight, Juan Gonzales, Deepa Fernandes, Mimi Rosenberg, Verna Avery Brown,
> Mario Murillo, Ken Nash and Bernard White's Wake Up Call's crew know. The
> democratic party will not save us.  They are running the same national
> security state and prison/military industrial complex with the same
motives
> of fear, greed and hubris than their republican friends.
>
> MY RESPONSE:(YES, YES.  INOTHERWORDS, THEY ARE ALL IMERIALISTS.  LET'S
CALL
> IT WHAT IT IS.)
>
>
> Fred's: Wake up Matt,
>
> (PRESENTE!)
>
> WBAI and Pacifica were the ALTERNATIVE RADIO.  After that, yes, the
fascist
> state will have silenced us and few Democrats will have said a thing.
>
> MY RESPONSE:(AGREED.  NOW LET US UNITE TO:RIP DOWN THE CONFEDERATE
> FLAG!ABOLISH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!BEAT BACK SCHUNDLER!SEIZE POWER
> EVERYWHERE THAT REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY CAN ADVANCE!AND, FINALLY, UTELIZE
> REASON & SCIENCE AS WELL AS PASSION....IN THE STRUGGLE FOR UNITY  -MATTHEW
> SMITH)
>
>
>
>
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>








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1983
Sender:"David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-27 21:28:34
Subject:Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
Message:

You bring up a lot of points, Howard. Let me respond to a few.

Your historic reference to Hitler is factually inaccurate. The Hit-man was
never elected. He was appointed to the chancellorship of Germany when the
Nazi vote was declining and class struggle was acute and rising. The
Communist Party was large and active, the most consistent opponent of the
Nazis. The bourgeoisie turned to fascism because the outbreak of revolution
was too likely for them to continue with parliamentary democracy.

Hitler was able to consolidate his grip because the right-wing Social
Democrats (Gerry Schroeder's direct political ancestors) caved in to the
Nazis and broke ranks with the working class forces. They were labor union
bureaucrats like the AFL-CIO bureaucracy that is so slavishly tied to the
Democrats.

What we need are firm and consistent political organizations that serve the
people, not the bourgeoisie. The Democrats have always impeded this kind of
organization. If the Republicans are the butcher, the Dems are the Judas
goat that leads the people to the slaughter. In such a situation the first
thing to do is to get people to stop following the Judas goat. If the goat
is no longer effective then even the butcher is going to find his whole act
no longer works. In the case of the NJ Gov election, McGreevey doesn't want
voters to have a choice to his left. But neither does Schundler! That's
where someone like Coleman can play a part.

We need the same things today that the people have always needed: a genuine
revolutionary party of the working class, that is, a Communist Party that
can alone give real and consistent leadership against the bourgeoisie; and,
a broad united-front electoral and "legal" party (legality is always a very
dodgy thing under capitalism) to break the grip of  Repubocrats. But you are
right on the main point: we need a revolution. This can only be brought
about by the working class. That is why we need the Communist Party (i.e., a
real one.)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>;
<siddharta5@...>; <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>; <amirib@...>;
<MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>; <jmodibo@...>;
<Paul4sure@...>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:12 PM
Subject: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard,
Fascists


> I hope these are my last mumblings on this subject.
>
> IF nothing else, candidates such as Nader and Coleman help to bring up
> issues most critical to the well-being of the community. When their
message
> reaches the public, it serves to hold the leading contenders' feet to the
> fire.
> The major point of dispute is whether a 3rd party candidate will cause
[has
> caused] the loss of the least crappy of the two leading contenders.
> If we all keep voting for Gores and McGreevys, election after election,
how
> does it suddenly become possible for a true progressive to ever win -- the
> public will not have heard of that person before?!
>
> In the absence of a Hitler-like main contender, a rational path could be
> to put adequate resources into supporting progressive Assembly,
> Senate and Council candidates -- who control legislation, and take the
> Chinese long view of the Governorship by continuing to put up worthy
> candidates for that office, even tho it may allow the greater of 2 evils
to
> win. If the PEOPLE don't get the message of their bad decision in short
> order, then the people are the problem. Meanwhile the 3rd party candidate
> and party should keep up the promotion of their better ideas BETWEEN
> elections to keep the education of the public rolling and to prime the
> public awareness for the next election.
>
> On the national scene, either Nader and the Green Party have failed to TRY
> do this since the Supreme Court COUP, or the masses have not gotten the
> Green Party's continuing message
> for other reasons [lack of GP funds, ostracized from public media outlets,
> ...]
>
> If it's a Hitler vs a Crap in a close race next time, it would be suicide
to
> vote for 3rd, 4th, 5th party candidates. Germany learned and taught us
that
> back in the late 1920's and 1930's. Short of that kind of choice, a worthy
> 3rd party candidate exposes and infects the general populace with a better
> TRUTH, exposes lies, and proposes plans for a better way.
>
> In the absence of reasonably detailed plans [including sources of funding
> for the plan] presented to support the progressive program planks, the
> public should assume the candidate is so full of crap that it's
overflowing
> as political blather, sentimental rather than hard-headed sensible..
>
> In a democracy I don't see a better, less painful way to get the job done
> after decades of political neglect BY THE VOTING AGE PUBLIC. If we
> externalize the problem onto rotten politicians, we compound the problem
by
> not owning it as OUR personal responsibility or lack thereof in being
> participants in our own democratic government.
>
> We need a gahdam Revolution in what it means to be a citizen; maybe the
> coming economic collapse will kick us all in the cortex and colon.
>
> I applaud and admire your continuing efforts to register, educate and get
> the vote out.
> If I am not a complete slimeball, I'll join you on Sat and/or Sundays.
> Regarding Leid's management techniques and Fascism as applied to business,
> 'If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and floats like a duck,
> and flies like a duck, and ducks the truth like a duck, and looks like
duck,
> is it really a ventriliquising goose, or is it PERHAPS a duck?'
>
> Up justice.
>
> Horrid
>
> P.S. How can we believe the latest poll of 395 people as indicating
McGreevy
> has a very large lead over Schundler, when we don't know whether the
> demographics of the 395 polled match the demographics of the millions of
> expected-to-vote citizens. I admit my blatant ignorance of statistics, but
> how can they calculate a margin of error without knowing the true outcome
of
> the election against which to compare their statistical sample of 395?
What
> are all of the assumptions made in this report? Are we being lulled into
> complacency like Dewey was in his race against Truman?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>; <siddharta5@...>;
> <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>;
> <amirib@...>; <MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>;
> <jmodibo@...>; <Paul4sure@...>
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:45 PM
> Subject: [poprogress] Response to Fred & Howard Re: Rothenberg's analysis
of
> the fascist rule and WBAI
>
>
> > (I WISH TO THANK FRED N.(NJFRIENDS) & HOWARD (P.O.P.) FOR RESPONDING TO
MY
> > POST RE: ROTHENBERG'S ADDRESS OF SITUATION AT WBAI.  IT'S ENCOURAGING
THAT
> > NOT EVERYONE THINKS THIS DEBATE ALSO INVOLVING THE 2000 NATIONAL
ELECTIONS
> > IS EITHER FINISHED, FUTILE, OR SIMPLY A THREAT TO THEIR ASPIRATIONS.
I'VE
> > DONE MY BEST TO RESPOND TO BOTH ARGUMENTS, BY WAY OF FRED'S LETTER--AND
TO
> > HOWARD I WOULD ONLY ADD THAT WHILE YOUR LETTER WAS VERY ARTICULATE AND
> > MOVINGLY PASSIONATE, YOU NEGLECTED SOME OF THE MOST CRITICAL ISSUES I
> > RAISED.  MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS BELOW -MATTHEW SMITH, UNITY & STRUGGLE)
> >
> >
> > Fred N. wrote:
> > Friends,This post was sent to the friends of wbai - NJ list which is not
a
> > discussionboard but anannouncement board which I moderate.I will not
post
> it
> > but will respond below as interspersed in CAPS:Fred N. (NJ)-
> >
> >
> > -- original message-- Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...> wrote:>> This
> is
> > an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's> support
of
> > Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush &> the
right
> > stole the 2001 election.
> >
> > Fred's Reply: There has never been an endorsement of Ralph Nader by WBAI
> >
> > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- WHILE THERE ARE, NO WERE, MANY DIVERSE VOICES AT
WBAI,
> > THERE WAS CLEARLY A DOMINANT TREND AMONGST THE NOW 'BANNED AND FIRED'
WHO
> > WERE THE MOST ARDENT SUPPORTERS OF NADER, AND THERE IS ALOT OF OVERLAP
IN
> > TERMS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE BASE OF SUPPORTERS.
> >
> >
> > -- original message-- Interesting, but one of David> Rothenburg's main
> > errors (similar to what we've heard from> WBAI/naderites/greens since
the
> > X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead with> Hitler (Lead is a bullying
> > traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, but> not a fascist & to call
> her
> > a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 &> Co.--though WBAI coup is
> > certainly part of erotion of democracy in US),> According to Rothenberg,
> the
> > #1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, while> Bush2/Republican/REAL
> > FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of proper> historic
analysis)
> > even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that WBAI's> support of
> Nader
> > helped throw the election to B2!!
> >
> > Fred's Reply:  I did not listen to David Rothenberg's talk, where, by
the
> > way, heannounces that he maynever return because he is likely to be
fired
> > for saying what he was saying.
> >
> > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- SINCE THIS IS OUR FIRST EXCHANGE, LET ME REITERATE UP
> > FRONT MY UNBENDING, BUT CRITICAL, SUPPORT FOR THE EXILE COMMUNITY AT
WBAI.
> > WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING THERE IS A TRAVESTY AND AN ASSAULT ON DEMOCRACY,
> AS
> > WBAI HAS BEEN A GREAT AND NECESSARY PUBLIC INSTITUTION.  & TO BE SURE, I
> > HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT I CAN TO SHOW THAT SUPPORT, (DISPENSING
INFORMATION,
> > ATTENDING RALLIES, MAKING PHONE CALLS), THOUGH IT NEVER FEELS LIKE
ENOUGH
> > WHEN EVERY WEEK ANOTHER IMPORTANT VOICE IS SILENCED....)
> >
> > Fred's: Ido agree withDavid on the point that the methods used by Utrice
> > Leid are common to thefascists (suppression ofspeech,
intimidation/public
> > humiliation, false claims of theft/violence andconstant personalattacks.

> U.
> > Leid also installed an 8 camera audio-video serveillance systemcomplete
> > withcard-key entry system which makes Rykers Island look low tech.
> >
> > MY RESPONSE:(I HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH DRAWING COMPARISONS TO THE METHODS
> USED
> > TO LOCK OUT THE DISSENTING VOICES WITH 'AUTHORITARIAN' OR 'TOTALITARIAN'
> > METHODS ASSOCIATED WITH A CORPORATE TAKE-OVER, BUT 'FASCISM' HAS A VERY
> > SPECIFIC MEANING...MY ARGUEMENT WAS IS THAT UTRICE LEID HERSELF HAS BEEN
> > LABELED A 'FASCIST' WITH THE SAME SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION THAT CHIDED
> > SOME OF US DURING THE ELECTION FOR POINTING TO THE DANGER OF THE
> BUSH2CREW,
> > THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT & CORPORATE FASCISTS (MORE ON THAT BELOW)
> >
> > Fred's: I also agreethat the DemocraticParty has betrayed the American
> > working class and is now dominated by people whoare doing thebidding of
> very
> > large corporations and global finance interests.
> >
> > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- ONLY SOME KIND OF CONFUSION THAT THE DEM'S EVER
SERVED
> > THE INTEREST OF THE AMREICAN W.C. WOULD LEAD ANYONE TO THINK THAT THEY
> HAVE
> > SINCE BETRAYED THEM.  THE DEM. PARTY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BOURGEOIS PARTY,
> AND
> > HAS ALWAYS BEEN DOMINATED BY PEOPLE DOING BIDDING OF LARGE CORPORATIONS.
> > EVEN ROOSEVELT, WHO "SAVED CAPITIALISM FROM THE CAPITALISTS".  OUR
> ARGUMENT
> > HERE, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE ROOSEVELT THAN HITLER.  THE
> > GREENS HELPED BRING US WHO?....WHAT DID ROTHENBURG SAY ABOUT SWINGING
THE
> > VOTE TO BUSH, AND WHY WERE THE REPUBLICANS RUNNING NADER ADS DURING THE
> > CAMPAIGN?
> >
> > Fred's: The fact that Amy Goodman reported on Nader does not mean that
> WBAI
> > was a station controlled by the Greens.
> >
> > MY RESPONSE:(IT WAS A DOMINANT TREND)
> >
> >
> > -- original message-- There's a deep imbalance> of perspective that
needs
> to
> > be corrected here in terms of the Green Party> histortic role in 2001,
> > causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and Rep's> as no worse.
> > (Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green voting> base!!
> >
> > Fred's Reply:  The Dems are not a threat to the Greens, the Greens did
not
> > defeat Al Gore.  Al Gore and the DNC and massive corporate-sponsored
> > campaigning turned off voters and defeated Al Gore.  Half of all
registers
> > don't vote.  Half a billion dollars worth of corporatecontributions did
> not
> > change that.
> >
> > MY RESPONSE:(HOLY MACKERAL! AL GORE WON! THIS IS WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY
> THE
> > GREENS AS WELL AS MUCH OF THE, DARE I SAY, PETIT-BOURG 'LEFT', DE FACTO,
> > GIVE BUSH2 & THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT A FREE PASS.  RECALL THAT WHEN THE
> > ELECTION WAS BEING STOLEN IN FLORIDA & BY D.C.'S OBSCENE COURT, NOT FROM
> > GORE, MIND YOU, BUT FROM THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO DID VOTE, THE NADER
> > SUPPORTERS WENT WHERE?  BACK TO SEATTLE FOR "GLOBALIZATION PROTEST, PART
> > II"- UNFORTUNATELY, NADER AND THE GREENS ALLOWED THEIR, MORE-OR-LESS
WELL
> > INTENDED, MAINLY WHITE & MIDDLE-CLASS, CONSTITUENCY BELIEVE THAT IT WAS
> > BETTER TO *PROTEST* GLOBAL IMPERIALISM THAN TO *SEIZE POWER* FROM ITS
MOST
> > JINGOISTIC, BACKWARD,& REACTIONARY REPRESENTATIVES (ie: the
f-f-FASCISTS)
> AS
> > THEY WERE BUSY UNDERMINING THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL VOTE, TRAMPLING ON
THE
> > VOTER RIGHTS ACT OF 1964, AND THROWING THE 13TH, 14TH, & 15TH
AMMENDMENTS
> > OUT THE SCARY WINDOW--ALL OF WHICH, OF COURSE, AFFECT THE POOREST AND
> > OPPRESSED NATIONALISTIES MOST AND FIRST.
> >
> >
> > -- original message-- To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, suburban
> Montclair
> > was there, but> not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., let alone
> the
> > working class> from any town)  This same opportunism causes the P.B.,
esp.
> > on the left, to> think that only when it comes for THEM, then it's
worthy
> of
> > the name> fascism!
> >
> > Fred's Reply:  Actually, Ralph Nader did have some very large popular
> > rallies around the country that were not covered by the mass medias.
It's
> a
> > bitch to try to be prez without money and free publicity from the
> corporate
> > medias.  WBAI was doing what it's mission states: air the voices of
> dissent
> > that are not presented anywhere else.
> >
> > MY RESPONSE:(AS WBAI SHOULD, NO DOUBT...BUT THE PROBLEM AGAIN WITH THE
> GREEN
> > PARTY STRATEGY IS THAT THEY HAVE WANTED THE HEAD WITHOUT BUILDING THE
> BODY.
> > WELL BEFORE NADER CAME STROLLING, LA-DI-DA, INTO THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN
> SOME
> > TIME LATE- WAY BACK DURING THE PRIMARY SEASON, "UNITY & STRUGGLE" ISSUED
> THE
> > CALL TO FORM A 'LEFT-BLOC' UNITED FRONT TO "MARCH SEPERATELY, STRIKE
> > TOGETHER" AGAINST THE FAR-RIGHT IN GERNERAL,  TO PUSH BRADLEY TO THE
LEFT
> IN
> > OPPOSITION TO GORE, AND TO AIM SPECIFIC BLOWS AT, FOR INSTANCE, THE
CLOSED
> > BOURGEOIS DEBATE FORUM AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE (IMAGINE!).  BUT ALSO
TO
> > RUN CAMPAIGNS WHERE WE CAN WIN! (CONCRETELY: WE HAD A CITY COUNCIL RACE
IN
> > NEW BRUNSWICK IN 2000 WHERE WE UNITED WITH GREENS ON A "PEOPLES'
> DEMOCRACY"
> > CAMPAIGN, & NOW WE ARE BACKING RAS BARAKA2002 FOR CITY COUNCIL IN
NEWARK.)
> > BUT LOOK! HERE COME THE NJGREENS AGAIN, UNCRITICALLY, THREATENING WITH
THE
> > SAME BLUNDER THAT BROUGHT US B2, NOW IN AN ABSOLUTELY UNWINABLE
> GUBENETORIAL
> > RACE IN NJ, DECLARING THAT THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CENTRIST-PUPPET
> > MCGREEVY AND FAR-RIGHT IDEOLOGUE SCHUNDLER, OR AT LEAST NOT ENOUGH FOR
THE
> > NJGREENS TO INSTEAD ENDORSE A LEFT-BLOC UNITED FRONT STRATEGY-THEIR
> PROBLEM
> > (WHICH IS NOW OUR PROBLEM) IS THAT THEY WANT TO GO IT ALONE, RATHER THAN
> > JOINING IN A UNITED FRONT TO RUN CAMPAIGNS  WHERE WE CAN WIN, AND YES,
> > UNITING AGAINST THE WORSE EVIL IN THE SHORT-TERM.   (BUSH/SCHUNDLER)
> > OPPORTUNISM IS ESSENTIALLY SACRIFICING THE LONG-TERM GOAL FOR THE SHORT
> > TERM.  THIS IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH I APPLY THE TERM TO THE GREEN PARTY
> > STRATEGY.
> >
> >
> > -- original message-- Yet, how many more times will we hear many of the
> same
> > people say,> "It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real
fascists)
> > because it will> only strengthen the resisitance"Reply:  Someone said
> that?
> > Who? David Rothenberg?  Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar in> the
> > 1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending Amy
Goodman>
> &
> > Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to this mess.
> >
> > Fred's Reply:  What led to this mess is the Corporation for Public
> > Broadcasting funding which allowed board members from large corporations
> to
> > be named to the Pacifica Board and a Series of executives with
connections
> > with the Clinton administration to take over Pacifica and undertake its
> > destruction.
> >
> > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHERE THE DOMINANT TREND
OF
> > GREEN SUPPORT AT THE OLD WBAI AND THE GREEN PARTY ITSELF, IF NOT DE JURY
> > THEN DE FACTO, ESPOUSE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS A GREATER THREAT TO
> THEM
> > THAN THE REPUBLICAN AND FAR-RIGHT.  THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE AN
INTRIGUING
> > CASE TO BE MADE THAT UTRICE LEID & CO. REPRESENT THE STRONG-ARM OF A
> > DEMOCRATIC PARTY TAKE-OVER AND 'NPR'-ING OF WBAI (& WE ALL KNOW THAT
> > CORPORATE 'UNDERWRITING' IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER) AGAIN, AS I SAID,
ONLY
> > THE CONFUSED NOTION THAT THE BOURGEOISIE'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY EVER WORKED
IN
> > THE TRUE INTERESTS OF THE W.C. WOULD STIR UP THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS
> INDIGNATION
> > THAT FOLLOWS BETRAYAL.  BUT WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THIS TAKE-OVER OF WBAI
> DOES
> > NOT EXIST IN ISOLATION FROM THE CORPORATE TAKE-OVER OF ALL SPHERES OF
> PUBLIC
> > LIFE & CULTURE?  HOW LONG HAS NPR BEEN RUNNIN LEXUS ADS AFTER ALL?  HOW
> > ABOUT THE COOPTATION OF HIP-HOP?  JAZZ?  THE BLUES?  IF YOU READ AMIRI
> > BARAKA'S RECENT SLAMMING OF THE ENSUING COOPTATION OF SLAM-POETRY,
YOU'LL
> > SEE THE SAME TREND.  THIS IS AS OLD AS CONSTANTINE'S "CONVERSION" TO
> > CHRISTIANITY.  THE DIFFERENCE WITH WBAI IS THAT IT'S SUCH A VITAL
> COMPONENT
> > OF THE REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRATIC STRUGGLE AND LOSING IT AS A RESOURCE IS
> > STILL BIZARRELY UNTHINKABLE.  BUT SO WHAT IF WE CAN AGREE THAT THE
> DEMOCRATS
> > ARE THE IMMEDIATE ASSASSINES.  THIS DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT
THAT
> > WHILE IMPERIALISM IS TAKING OVER MORE AND MORE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS (BTW,
> MR.
> > JERRY COLEMAN- SCHUNDLER WANTS TO PRIVATIZE LIBRARIES!!) THE **ENTIRE
> > POLITICAL SPECTRUM** HAS SHIFTED RIGHT.  NOT JUST, SIMPLY, AND/OR ONLY
THE
> > DEMOCRATS, VIA NEW-DEM CLINTON, AS THE GREENS PROFESS WHEN THEY SUGGEST
> THE
> > MORPHING OF THE TWO PARTIES!  THIS IS OBJECTIVE AND IRREFUTABLE, ONE
WOULD
> > THINK.
> >
> > Fred's: David Rothenberg knows.  Al Lewis knows.  Bob Lederer, Robert
> > Knight, Juan Gonzales, Deepa Fernandes, Mimi Rosenberg, Verna Avery
Brown,
> > Mario Murillo, Ken Nash and Bernard White's Wake Up Call's crew know.
The
> > democratic party will not save us.  They are running the same national
> > security state and prison/military industrial complex with the same
> motives
> > of fear, greed and hubris than their republican friends.
> >
> > MY RESPONSE:(YES, YES.  INOTHERWORDS, THEY ARE ALL IMERIALISTS.  LET'S
> CALL
> > IT WHAT IT IS.)
> >
> >
> > Fred's: Wake up Matt,
> >
> > (PRESENTE!)
> >
> > WBAI and Pacifica were the ALTERNATIVE RADIO.  After that, yes, the
> fascist
> > state will have silenced us and few Democrats will have said a thing.
> >
> > MY RESPONSE:(AGREED.  NOW LET US UNITE TO:RIP DOWN THE CONFEDERATE
> > FLAG!ABOLISH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!BEAT BACK SCHUNDLER!SEIZE POWER
> > EVERYWHERE THAT REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY CAN ADVANCE!AND, FINALLY,
UTELIZE
> > REASON & SCIENCE AS WELL AS PASSION....IN THE STRUGGLE FOR
NITY  -MATTHEW
> > SMITH)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1984
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-28 17:00:37
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
Message:

Howard- Though I don't know you personally, I must point out that by your 
statement that "If the PEOPLE don't get the (Green Party)message of their 
bad decision in short order, then the people are the problem." you belie the 
very opportunism that is behind the "We're it!"/Go-it-alone syndrome that is 
at the heart of the Green Party, and why their political assumptions and 
conclusions must be seriously challenged.  I thankyou for the reaffirmation 
of my positions. (Btw, Some of your statements make me think that you may be 
confusing me with my brother Joe.)

-Matt Smith


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>,       
  <siddharta5@...>, <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
CC: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>, <amirib@...>,        
<MeadHajduk@...>, <hajdukmi@...>, <jmodibo@...>,        
<Paul4sure@...>
Subject: [nbpc] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:12:38 -0400

I hope these are my last mumblings on this subject.

IF nothing else, candidates such as Nader and Coleman help to bring up
issues most critical to the well-being of the community. When their message
reaches the public, it serves to hold the leading contenders' feet to the
fire.
The major point of dispute is whether a 3rd party candidate will cause [has
caused] the loss of the least crappy of the two leading contenders.
If we all keep voting for Gores and McGreevys, election after election, how
does it suddenly become possible for a true progressive to ever win -- the
public will not have heard of that person before?!

In the absence of a Hitler-like main contender, a rational path could be
to put adequate resources into supporting progressive Assembly,
Senate and Council candidates -- who control legislation, and take the
Chinese long view of the Governorship by continuing to put up worthy
candidates for that office, even tho it may allow the greater of 2 evils to
win. If the PEOPLE don't get the message of their bad decision in short
order, then the people are the problem. Meanwhile the 3rd party candidate
and party should keep up the promotion of their better ideas BETWEEN
elections to keep the education of the public rolling and to prime the
public awareness for the next election.

On the national scene, either Nader and the Green Party have failed to TRY
do this since the Supreme Court COUP, or the masses have not gotten the
Green Party's continuing message
for other reasons [lack of GP funds, ostracized from public media outlets,
...]

If it's a Hitler vs a Crap in a close race next time, it would be suicide to
vote for 3rd, 4th, 5th party candidates. Germany learned and taught us that
back in the late 1920's and 1930's. Short of that kind of choice, a worthy
3rd party candidate exposes and infects the general populace with a better
TRUTH, exposes lies, and proposes plans for a better way.

In the absence of reasonably detailed plans [including sources of funding
for the plan] presented to support the progressive program planks, the
public should assume the candidate is so full of crap that it's overflowing
as political blather, sentimental rather than hard-headed sensible..

In a democracy I don't see a better, less painful way to get the job done
after decades of political neglect BY THE VOTING AGE PUBLIC. If we
externalize the problem onto rotten politicians, we compound the problem by
not owning it as OUR personal responsibility or lack thereof in being
participants in our own democratic government.

We need a gahdam Revolution in what it means to be a citizen; maybe the
coming economic collapse will kick us all in the cortex and colon.

I applaud and admire your continuing efforts to register, educate and get
the vote out.
If I am not a complete slimeball, I'll join you on Sat and/or Sundays.
Regarding Leid's management techniques and Fascism as applied to business,
'If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and floats like a duck,
and flies like a duck, and ducks the truth like a duck, and looks like duck,
is it really a ventriliquising goose, or is it PERHAPS a duck?'

Up justice.

Horrid

P.S. How can we believe the latest poll of 395 people as indicating McGreevy
has a very large lead over Schundler, when we don't know whether the
demographics of the 395 polled match the demographics of the millions of
expected-to-vote citizens. I admit my blatant ignorance of statistics, but
how can they calculate a margin of error without knowing the true outcome of
the election against which to compare their statistical sample of 395? What
are all of the assumptions made in this report? Are we being lulled into
complacency like Dewey was in his race against Truman?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>; <siddharta5@...>;
<savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>;
<amirib@...>; <MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>;
<jmodibo@...>; <Paul4sure@...>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:45 PM
Subject: [poprogress] Response to Fred & Howard Re: Rothenberg's analysis of
the fascist rule and WBAI


 > (I WISH TO THANK FRED N.(NJFRIENDS) & HOWARD (P.O.P.) FOR RESPONDING TO 
MY
 > POST RE: ROTHENBERG'S ADDRESS OF SITUATION AT WBAI.  IT'S ENCOURAGING 
THAT
 > NOT EVERYONE THINKS THIS DEBATE ALSO INVOLVING THE 2000 NATIONAL 
ELECTIONS
 > IS EITHER FINISHED, FUTILE, OR SIMPLY A THREAT TO THEIR ASPIRATIONS.  
I'VE
 > DONE MY BEST TO RESPOND TO BOTH ARGUMENTS, BY WAY OF FRED'S LETTER--AND 
TO
 > HOWARD I WOULD ONLY ADD THAT WHILE YOUR LETTER WAS VERY ARTICULATE AND
 > MOVINGLY PASSIONATE, YOU NEGLECTED SOME OF THE MOST CRITICAL ISSUES I
 > RAISED.  MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS BELOW -MATTHEW SMITH, UNITY & STRUGGLE)
 >
 >
 > Fred N. wrote:
 > Friends,This post was sent to the friends of wbai - NJ list which is not 
a
 > discussionboard but anannouncement board which I moderate.I will not post
it
 > but will respond below as interspersed in CAPS:Fred N. (NJ)-
 >
 >
 > -- original message-- Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...> wrote:>> This
is
 > an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's> support of
 > Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush &> the 
right
 > stole the 2001 election.
 >
 > Fred's Reply: There has never been an endorsement of Ralph Nader by WBAI
 >
 > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- WHILE THERE ARE, NO WERE, MANY DIVERSE VOICES AT WBAI,
 > THERE WAS CLEARLY A DOMINANT TREND AMONGST THE NOW 'BANNED AND FIRED' WHO
 > WERE THE MOST ARDENT SUPPORTERS OF NADER, AND THERE IS ALOT OF OVERLAP IN
 > TERMS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE BASE OF SUPPORTERS.
 >
 >
 > -- original message-- Interesting, but one of David> Rothenburg's main
 > errors (similar to what we've heard from> WBAI/naderites/greens since the
 > X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead with> Hitler (Lead is a bullying
 > traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, but> not a fascist & to call
her
 > a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 &> Co.--though WBAI coup is
 > certainly part of erotion of democracy in US),> According to Rothenberg,
the
 > #1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, while> Bush2/Republican/REAL
 > FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of proper> historic 
analysis)
 > even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that WBAI's> support of
Nader
 > helped throw the election to B2!!
 >
 > Fred's Reply:  I did not listen to David Rothenberg's talk, where, by the
 > way, heannounces that he maynever return because he is likely to be fired
 > for saying what he was saying.
 >
 > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- SINCE THIS IS OUR FIRST EXCHANGE, LET ME REITERATE UP
 > FRONT MY UNBENDING, BUT CRITICAL, SUPPORT FOR THE EXILE COMMUNITY AT 
WBAI.
 > WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING THERE IS A TRAVESTY AND AN ASSAULT ON DEMOCRACY,
AS
 > WBAI HAS BEEN A GREAT AND NECESSARY PUBLIC INSTITUTION.  & TO BE SURE, I
 > HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT I CAN TO SHOW THAT SUPPORT, (DISPENSING INFORMATION,
 > ATTENDING RALLIES, MAKING PHONE CALLS), THOUGH IT NEVER FEELS LIKE ENOUGH
 > WHEN EVERY WEEK ANOTHER IMPORTANT VOICE IS SILENCED....)
 >
 > Fred's: Ido agree withDavid on the point that the methods used by Utrice
 > Leid are common to thefascists (suppression ofspeech, intimidation/public
 > humiliation, false claims of theft/violence andconstant personalattacks.
U.
 > Leid also installed an 8 camera audio-video serveillance systemcomplete
 > withcard-key entry system which makes Rykers Island look low tech.
 >
 > MY RESPONSE:(I HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH DRAWING COMPARISONS TO THE METHODS
USED
 > TO LOCK OUT THE DISSENTING VOICES WITH 'AUTHORITARIAN' OR 'TOTALITARIAN'
 > METHODS ASSOCIATED WITH A CORPORATE TAKE-OVER, BUT 'FASCISM' HAS A VERY
 > SPECIFIC MEANING...MY ARGUEMENT WAS IS THAT UTRICE LEID HERSELF HAS BEEN
 > LABELED A 'FASCIST' WITH THE SAME SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION THAT CHIDED
 > SOME OF US DURING THE ELECTION FOR POINTING TO THE DANGER OF THE
BUSH2CREW,
 > THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT & CORPORATE FASCISTS (MORE ON THAT BELOW)
 >
 > Fred's: I also agreethat the DemocraticParty has betrayed the American
 > working class and is now dominated by people whoare doing thebidding of
very
 > large corporations and global finance interests.
 >
 > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- ONLY SOME KIND OF CONFUSION THAT THE DEM'S EVER SERVED
 > THE INTEREST OF THE AMREICAN W.C. WOULD LEAD ANYONE TO THINK THAT THEY
HAVE
 > SINCE BETRAYED THEM.  THE DEM. PARTY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BOURGEOIS PARTY,
AND
 > HAS ALWAYS BEEN DOMINATED BY PEOPLE DOING BIDDING OF LARGE CORPORATIONS.
 > EVEN ROOSEVELT, WHO "SAVED CAPITIALISM FROM THE CAPITALISTS".  OUR
ARGUMENT
 > HERE, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE ROOSEVELT THAN HITLER.  THE
 > GREENS HELPED BRING US WHO?....WHAT DID ROTHENBURG SAY ABOUT SWINGING THE
 > VOTE TO BUSH, AND WHY WERE THE REPUBLICANS RUNNING NADER ADS DURING THE
 > CAMPAIGN?
 >
 > Fred's: The fact that Amy Goodman reported on Nader does not mean that
WBAI
 > was a station controlled by the Greens.
 >
 > MY RESPONSE:(IT WAS A DOMINANT TREND)
 >
 >
 > -- original message-- There's a deep imbalance> of perspective that needs
to
 > be corrected here in terms of the Green Party> histortic role in 2001,
 > causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and Rep's> as no worse.
 > (Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green voting> base!!
 >
 > Fred's Reply:  The Dems are not a threat to the Greens, the Greens did 
not
 > defeat Al Gore.  Al Gore and the DNC and massive corporate-sponsored
 > campaigning turned off voters and defeated Al Gore.  Half of all 
registers
 > don't vote.  Half a billion dollars worth of corporatecontributions did
not
 > change that.
 >
 > MY RESPONSE:(HOLY MACKERAL! AL GORE WON! THIS IS WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY
THE
 > GREENS AS WELL AS MUCH OF THE, DARE I SAY, PETIT-BOURG 'LEFT', DE FACTO,
 > GIVE BUSH2 & THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT A FREE PASS.  RECALL THAT WHEN THE
 > ELECTION WAS BEING STOLEN IN FLORIDA & BY D.C.'S OBSCENE COURT, NOT FROM
 > GORE, MIND YOU, BUT FROM THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO DID VOTE, THE NADER
 > SUPPORTERS WENT WHERE?  BACK TO SEATTLE FOR "GLOBALIZATION PROTEST, PART
 > II"- UNFORTUNATELY, NADER AND THE GREENS ALLOWED THEIR, MORE-OR-LESS WELL
 > INTENDED, MAINLY WHITE & MIDDLE-CLASS, CONSTITUENCY BELIEVE THAT IT WAS
 > BETTER TO *PROTEST* GLOBAL IMPERIALISM THAN TO *SEIZE POWER* FROM ITS 
MOST
 > JINGOISTIC, BACKWARD,& REACTIONARY REPRESENTATIVES (ie: the f-f-FASCISTS)
AS
 > THEY WERE BUSY UNDERMINING THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL VOTE, TRAMPLING ON THE
 > VOTER RIGHTS ACT OF 1964, AND THROWING THE 13TH, 14TH, & 15TH AMMENDMENTS
 > OUT THE SCARY WINDOW--ALL OF WHICH, OF COURSE, AFFECT THE POOREST AND
 > OPPRESSED NATIONALISTIES MOST AND FIRST.
 >
 >
 > -- original message-- To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, suburban
Montclair
 > was there, but> not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., let alone
the
 > working class> from any town)  This same opportunism causes the P.B., 
esp.
 > on the left, to> think that only when it comes for THEM, then it's worthy
of
 > the name> fascism!
 >
 > Fred's Reply:  Actually, Ralph Nader did have some very large popular
 > rallies around the country that were not covered by the mass medias.  
It's
a
 > bitch to try to be prez without money and free publicity from the
corporate
 > medias.  WBAI was doing what it's mission states: air the voices of
dissent
 > that are not presented anywhere else.
 >
 > MY RESPONSE:(AS WBAI SHOULD, NO DOUBT...BUT THE PROBLEM AGAIN WITH THE
GREEN
 > PARTY STRATEGY IS THAT THEY HAVE WANTED THE HEAD WITHOUT BUILDING THE
BODY.
 > WELL BEFORE NADER CAME STROLLING, LA-DI-DA, INTO THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN
SOME
 > TIME LATE- WAY BACK DURING THE PRIMARY SEASON, "UNITY & STRUGGLE" ISSUED
THE
 > CALL TO FORM A 'LEFT-BLOC' UNITED FRONT TO "MARCH SEPERATELY, STRIKE
 > TOGETHER" AGAINST THE FAR-RIGHT IN GERNERAL,  TO PUSH BRADLEY TO THE LEFT
IN
 > OPPOSITION TO GORE, AND TO AIM SPECIFIC BLOWS AT, FOR INSTANCE, THE 
CLOSED
 > BOURGEOIS DEBATE FORUM AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE (IMAGINE!).  BUT ALSO TO
 > RUN CAMPAIGNS WHERE WE CAN WIN! (CONCRETELY: WE HAD A CITY COUNCIL RACE 
IN
 > NEW BRUNSWICK IN 2000 WHERE WE UNITED WITH GREENS ON A "PEOPLES'
DEMOCRACY"
 > CAMPAIGN, & NOW WE ARE BACKING RAS BARAKA2002 FOR CITY COUNCIL IN 
NEWARK.)
 > BUT LOOK! HERE COME THE NJGREENS AGAIN, UNCRITICALLY, THREATENING WITH 
THE
 > SAME BLUNDER THAT BROUGHT US B2, NOW IN AN ABSOLUTELY UNWINABLE
GUBENETORIAL
 > RACE IN NJ, DECLARING THAT THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CENTRIST-PUPPET
 > MCGREEVY AND FAR-RIGHT IDEOLOGUE SCHUNDLER, OR AT LEAST NOT ENOUGH FOR 
THE
 > NJGREENS TO INSTEAD ENDORSE A LEFT-BLOC UNITED FRONT STRATEGY-THEIR
PROBLEM
 > (WHICH IS NOW OUR PROBLEM) IS THAT THEY WANT TO GO IT ALONE, RATHER THAN
 > JOINING IN A UNITED FRONT TO RUN CAMPAIGNS  WHERE WE CAN WIN, AND YES,
 > UNITING AGAINST THE WORSE EVIL IN THE SHORT-TERM.   (BUSH/SCHUNDLER)
 > OPPORTUNISM IS ESSENTIALLY SACRIFICING THE LONG-TERM GOAL FOR THE SHORT
 > TERM.  THIS IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH I APPLY THE TERM TO THE GREEN PARTY
 > STRATEGY.
 >
 >
 > -- original message-- Yet, how many more times will we hear many of the
same
 > people say,> "It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real fascists)
 > because it will> only strengthen the resisitance"Reply:  Someone said
that?
 > Who? David Rothenberg?  Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar in> the
 > 1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending Amy Goodman>
&
 > Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to this mess.
 >
 > Fred's Reply:  What led to this mess is the Corporation for Public
 > Broadcasting funding which allowed board members from large corporations
to
 > be named to the Pacifica Board and a Series of executives with 
connections
 > with the Clinton administration to take over Pacifica and undertake its
 > destruction.
 >
 > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHERE THE DOMINANT TREND OF
 > GREEN SUPPORT AT THE OLD WBAI AND THE GREEN PARTY ITSELF, IF NOT DE JURY
 > THEN DE FACTO, ESPOUSE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS A GREATER THREAT TO
THEM
 > THAN THE REPUBLICAN AND FAR-RIGHT.  THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE AN INTRIGUING
 > CASE TO BE MADE THAT UTRICE LEID & CO. REPRESENT THE STRONG-ARM OF A
 > DEMOCRATIC PARTY TAKE-OVER AND 'NPR'-ING OF WBAI (& WE ALL KNOW THAT
 > CORPORATE 'UNDERWRITING' IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER) AGAIN, AS I SAID, 
ONLY
 > THE CONFUSED NOTION THAT THE BOURGEOISIE'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY EVER WORKED 
IN
 > THE TRUE INTERESTS OF THE W.C. WOULD STIR UP THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS
INDIGNATION
 > THAT FOLLOWS BETRAYAL.  BUT WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THIS TAKE-OVER OF WBAI
DOES
 > NOT EXIST IN ISOLATION FROM THE CORPORATE TAKE-OVER OF ALL SPHERES OF
PUBLIC
 > LIFE & CULTURE?  HOW LONG HAS NPR BEEN RUNNIN LEXUS ADS AFTER ALL?  HOW
 > ABOUT THE COOPTATION OF HIP-HOP?  JAZZ?  THE BLUES?  IF YOU READ AMIRI
 > BARAKA'S RECENT SLAMMING OF THE ENSUING COOPTATION OF SLAM-POETRY, YOU'LL
 > SEE THE SAME TREND.  THIS IS AS OLD AS CONSTANTINE'S "CONVERSION" TO
 > CHRISTIANITY.  THE DIFFERENCE WITH WBAI IS THAT IT'S SUCH A VITAL
COMPONENT
 > OF THE REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRATIC STRUGGLE AND LOSING IT AS A RESOURCE IS
 > STILL BIZARRELY UNTHINKABLE.  BUT SO WHAT IF WE CAN AGREE THAT THE
DEMOCRATS
 > ARE THE IMMEDIATE ASSASSINES.  THIS DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT
 > WHILE IMPERIALISM IS TAKING OVER MORE AND MORE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS (BTW,
MR.
 > JERRY COLEMAN- SCHUNDLER WANTS TO PRIVATIZE LIBRARIES!!) THE **ENTIRE
 > POLITICAL SPECTRUM** HAS SHIFTED RIGHT.  NOT JUST, SIMPLY, AND/OR ONLY 
THE
 > DEMOCRATS, VIA NEW-DEM CLINTON, AS THE GREENS PROFESS WHEN THEY SUGGEST
THE
 > MORPHING OF THE TWO PARTIES!  THIS IS OBJECTIVE AND IRREFUTABLE, ONE 
WOULD
 > THINK.
 >
 > Fred's: David Rothenberg knows.  Al Lewis knows.  Bob Lederer, Robert
 > Knight, Juan Gonzales, Deepa Fernandes, Mimi Rosenberg, Verna Avery 
Brown,
 > Mario Murillo, Ken Nash and Bernard White's Wake Up Call's crew know. The
 > democratic party will not save us.  They are running the same national
 > security state and prison/military industrial complex with the same
motives
 > of fear, greed and hubris than their republican friends.
 >
 > MY RESPONSE:(YES, YES.  INOTHERWORDS, THEY ARE ALL IMERIALISTS.  LET'S
CALL
 > IT WHAT IT IS.)
 >
 >
 > Fred's: Wake up Matt,
 >
 > (PRESENTE!)
 >
 > WBAI and Pacifica were the ALTERNATIVE RADIO.  After that, yes, the
fascist
 > state will have silenced us and few Democrats will have said a thing.
 >
 > MY RESPONSE:(AGREED.  NOW LET US UNITE TO:RIP DOWN THE CONFEDERATE
 > FLAG!ABOLISH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!BEAT BACK SCHUNDLER!SEIZE POWER
 > EVERYWHERE THAT REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY CAN ADVANCE!AND, FINALLY, UTELIZE
 > REASON & SCIENCE AS WELL AS PASSION....IN THE STRUGGLE FOR UNITY  
-MATTHEW
 > SMITH)
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
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 >
 >
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 >
 >
 >
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 >



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1985
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-28 19:31:59
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
Message:

all eyes on hunger-fraud the "judas-goat".

the "first thing to do", under the circumstances, is to keep the "butcher" 
out of "recognized" political power, i.e. governor, president...

this means now: smash schundler! keep mcgreasy in the fire!
as we build the necessary peoples' political organization to defeat them 
both.

you shd know that hunger-fraud encouraged splitting the anti-bush vote in 
'00, endorsing nadir's folly,

& encouraged splitting the anti-dole vote in '96, saying the contradictions 
between clinton & dole were "illusions", and endorsing a "boycott".

objectively (which matters most) this is the "butcher's" best strategy for 
the peoples' forces.

science, not schemes.

cliff



>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>, 
><siddharta5@...>, <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
>CC: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>, <amirib@...>, 
><MeadHajduk@...>, <hajdukmi@...>, <jmodibo@...>, 
><Paul4sure@...>
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, 
>Howard, Fascists
>Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:28:34 -0400
>
>You bring up a lot of points, Howard. Let me respond to a few.
>
>Your historic reference to Hitler is factually inaccurate. The Hit-man was
>never elected. He was appointed to the chancellorship of Germany when the
>Nazi vote was declining and class struggle was acute and rising. The
>Communist Party was large and active, the most consistent opponent of the
>Nazis. The bourgeoisie turned to fascism because the outbreak of revolution
>was too likely for them to continue with parliamentary democracy.
>
>Hitler was able to consolidate his grip because the right-wing Social
>Democrats (Gerry Schroeder's direct political ancestors) caved in to the
>Nazis and broke ranks with the working class forces. They were labor union
>bureaucrats like the AFL-CIO bureaucracy that is so slavishly tied to the
>Democrats.
>
>What we need are firm and consistent political organizations that serve the
>people, not the bourgeoisie. The Democrats have always impeded this kind of
>organization. If the Republicans are the butcher, the Dems are the Judas
>goat that leads the people to the slaughter. In such a situation the first
>thing to do is to get people to stop following the Judas goat. If the goat
>is no longer effective then even the butcher is going to find his whole act
>no longer works. In the case of the NJ Gov election, McGreevey doesn't want
>voters to have a choice to his left. But neither does Schundler! That's
>where someone like Coleman can play a part.
>
>We need the same things today that the people have always needed: a genuine
>revolutionary party of the working class, that is, a Communist Party that
>can alone give real and consistent leadership against the bourgeoisie; and,
>a broad united-front electoral and "legal" party (legality is always a very
>dodgy thing under capitalism) to break the grip of  Repubocrats. But you 
>are
>right on the main point: we need a revolution. This can only be brought
>about by the working class. That is why we need the Communist Party (i.e., 
>a
>real one.)
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
>To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>;
><siddharta5@...>; <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
>Cc: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>; <amirib@...>;
><MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>; <jmodibo@...>;
><Paul4sure@...>
>Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:12 PM
>Subject: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard,
>Fascists
>
>
> > I hope these are my last mumblings on this subject.
> >
> > IF nothing else, candidates such as Nader and Coleman help to bring up
> > issues most critical to the well-being of the community. When their
>message
> > reaches the public, it serves to hold the leading contenders' feet to 
>the
> > fire.
> > The major point of dispute is whether a 3rd party candidate will cause
>[has
> > caused] the loss of the least crappy of the two leading contenders.
> > If we all keep voting for Gores and McGreevys, election after election,
>how
> > does it suddenly become possible for a true progressive to ever win -- 
>the
> > public will not have heard of that person before?!
> >
> > In the absence of a Hitler-like main contender, a rational path could be
> > to put adequate resources into supporting progressive Assembly,
> > Senate and Council candidates -- who control legislation, and take the
> > Chinese long view of the Governorship by continuing to put up worthy
> > candidates for that office, even tho it may allow the greater of 2 evils
>to
> > win. If the PEOPLE don't get the message of their bad decision in short
> > order, then the people are the problem. Meanwhile the 3rd party 
>candidate
> > and party should keep up the promotion of their better ideas BETWEEN
> > elections to keep the education of the public rolling and to prime the
> > public awareness for the next election.
> >
> > On the national scene, either Nader and the Green Party have failed to 
>TRY
> > do this since the Supreme Court COUP, or the masses have not gotten the
> > Green Party's continuing message
> > for other reasons [lack of GP funds, ostracized from public media 
>outlets,
> > ...]
> >
> > If it's a Hitler vs a Crap in a close race next time, it would be 
>suicide
>to
> > vote for 3rd, 4th, 5th party candidates. Germany learned and taught us
>that
> > back in the late 1920's and 1930's. Short of that kind of choice, a 
>worthy
> > 3rd party candidate exposes and infects the general populace with a 
>better
> > TRUTH, exposes lies, and proposes plans for a better way.
> >
> > In the absence of reasonably detailed plans [including sources of 
>funding
> > for the plan] presented to support the progressive program planks, the
> > public should assume the candidate is so full of crap that it's
>overflowing
> > as political blather, sentimental rather than hard-headed sensible..
> >
> > In a democracy I don't see a better, less painful way to get the job 
>done
> > after decades of political neglect BY THE VOTING AGE PUBLIC. If we
> > externalize the problem onto rotten politicians, we compound the problem
>by
> > not owning it as OUR personal responsibility or lack thereof in being
> > participants in our own democratic government.
> >
> > We need a gahdam Revolution in what it means to be a citizen; maybe the
> > coming economic collapse will kick us all in the cortex and colon.
> >
> > I applaud and admire your continuing efforts to register, educate and 
>get
> > the vote out.
> > If I am not a complete slimeball, I'll join you on Sat and/or Sundays.
> > Regarding Leid's management techniques and Fascism as applied to 
>business,
> > 'If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and floats like a 
>duck,
> > and flies like a duck, and ducks the truth like a duck, and looks like
>duck,
> > is it really a ventriliquising goose, or is it PERHAPS a duck?'
> >
> > Up justice.
> >
> > Horrid
> >
> > P.S. How can we believe the latest poll of 395 people as indicating
>McGreevy
> > has a very large lead over Schundler, when we don't know whether the
> > demographics of the 395 polled match the demographics of the millions of
> > expected-to-vote citizens. I admit my blatant ignorance of statistics, 
>but
> > how can they calculate a margin of error without knowing the true 
>outcome
>of
> > the election against which to compare their statistical sample of 395?
>What
> > are all of the assumptions made in this report? Are we being lulled into
> > complacency like Dewey was in his race against Truman?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>; <siddharta5@...>;
> > <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> > Cc: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>;
> > <amirib@...>; <MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>;
> > <jmodibo@...>; <Paul4sure@...>
> > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:45 PM
> > Subject: [poprogress] Response to Fred & Howard Re: Rothenberg's 
>analysis
>of
> > the fascist rule and WBAI
> >
> >
> > > (I WISH TO THANK FRED N.(NJFRIENDS) & HOWARD (P.O.P.) FOR RESPONDING 
>TO
>MY
> > > POST RE: ROTHENBERG'S ADDRESS OF SITUATION AT WBAI.  IT'S ENCOURAGING
>THAT
> > > NOT EVERYONE THINKS THIS DEBATE ALSO INVOLVING THE 2000 NATIONAL
>ELECTIONS
> > > IS EITHER FINISHED, FUTILE, OR SIMPLY A THREAT TO THEIR ASPIRATIONS.
>I'VE
> > > DONE MY BEST TO RESPOND TO BOTH ARGUMENTS, BY WAY OF FRED'S 
>LETTER--AND
>TO
> > > HOWARD I WOULD ONLY ADD THAT WHILE YOUR LETTER WAS VERY ARTICULATE AND
> > > MOVINGLY PASSIONATE, YOU NEGLECTED SOME OF THE MOST CRITICAL ISSUES I
> > > RAISED.  MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS BELOW -MATTHEW SMITH, UNITY & 
>STRUGGLE)
> > >
> > >
> > > Fred N. wrote:
> > > Friends,This post was sent to the friends of wbai - NJ list which is 
>not
>a
> > > discussionboard but anannouncement board which I moderate.I will not
>post
> > it
> > > but will respond below as interspersed in CAPS:Fred N. (NJ)-
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...> wrote:>> 
>This
> > is
> > > an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's> support
>of
> > > Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush &> the
>right
> > > stole the 2001 election.
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply: There has never been an endorsement of Ralph Nader by 
>WBAI
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- WHILE THERE ARE, NO WERE, MANY DIVERSE VOICES AT
>WBAI,
> > > THERE WAS CLEARLY A DOMINANT TREND AMONGST THE NOW 'BANNED AND FIRED'
>WHO
> > > WERE THE MOST ARDENT SUPPORTERS OF NADER, AND THERE IS ALOT OF OVERLAP
>IN
> > > TERMS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE BASE OF SUPPORTERS.
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- Interesting, but one of David> Rothenburg's main
> > > errors (similar to what we've heard from> WBAI/naderites/greens since
>the
> > > X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead with> Hitler (Lead is a 
>bullying
> > > traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, but> not a fascist & to 
>call
> > her
> > > a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 &> Co.--though WBAI coup is
> > > certainly part of erotion of democracy in US),> According to 
>Rothenberg,
> > the
> > > #1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, while> Bush2/Republican/REAL
> > > FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of proper> historic
>analysis)
> > > even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that WBAI's> support of
> > Nader
> > > helped throw the election to B2!!
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply:  I did not listen to David Rothenberg's talk, where, by
>the
> > > way, heannounces that he maynever return because he is likely to be
>fired
> > > for saying what he was saying.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- SINCE THIS IS OUR FIRST EXCHANGE, LET ME REITERATE 
>UP
> > > FRONT MY UNBENDING, BUT CRITICAL, SUPPORT FOR THE EXILE COMMUNITY AT
>WBAI.
> > > WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING THERE IS A TRAVESTY AND AN ASSAULT ON 
>DEMOCRACY,
> > AS
> > > WBAI HAS BEEN A GREAT AND NECESSARY PUBLIC INSTITUTION.  & TO BE SURE, 
>I
> > > HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT I CAN TO SHOW THAT SUPPORT, (DISPENSING
>INFORMATION,
> > > ATTENDING RALLIES, MAKING PHONE CALLS), THOUGH IT NEVER FEELS LIKE
>ENOUGH
> > > WHEN EVERY WEEK ANOTHER IMPORTANT VOICE IS SILENCED....)
> > >
> > > Fred's: Ido agree withDavid on the point that the methods used by 
>Utrice
> > > Leid are common to thefascists (suppression ofspeech,
>intimidation/public
> > > humiliation, false claims of theft/violence andconstant 
>personalattacks.
>
> > U.
> > > Leid also installed an 8 camera audio-video serveillance 
>systemcomplete
> > > withcard-key entry system which makes Rykers Island look low tech.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(I HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH DRAWING COMPARISONS TO THE 
>METHODS
> > USED
> > > TO LOCK OUT THE DISSENTING VOICES WITH 'AUTHORITARIAN' OR 
>'TOTALITARIAN'
> > > METHODS ASSOCIATED WITH A CORPORATE TAKE-OVER, BUT 'FASCISM' HAS A 
>VERY
> > > SPECIFIC MEANING...MY ARGUEMENT WAS IS THAT UTRICE LEID HERSELF HAS 
>BEEN
> > > LABELED A 'FASCIST' WITH THE SAME SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION THAT 
>CHIDED
> > > SOME OF US DURING THE ELECTION FOR POINTING TO THE DANGER OF THE
> > BUSH2CREW,
> > > THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT & CORPORATE FASCISTS (MORE ON THAT BELOW)
> > >
> > > Fred's: I also agreethat the DemocraticParty has betrayed the American
> > > working class and is now dominated by people whoare doing thebidding 
>of
> > very
> > > large corporations and global finance interests.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- ONLY SOME KIND OF CONFUSION THAT THE DEM'S EVER
>SERVED
> > > THE INTEREST OF THE AMREICAN W.C. WOULD LEAD ANYONE TO THINK THAT THEY
> > HAVE
> > > SINCE BETRAYED THEM.  THE DEM. PARTY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BOURGEOIS 
>PARTY,
> > AND
> > > HAS ALWAYS BEEN DOMINATED BY PEOPLE DOING BIDDING OF LARGE 
>CORPORATIONS.
> > > EVEN ROOSEVELT, WHO "SAVED CAPITIALISM FROM THE CAPITALISTS".  OUR
> > ARGUMENT
> > > HERE, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE ROOSEVELT THAN HITLER.  
>THE
> > > GREENS HELPED BRING US WHO?....WHAT DID ROTHENBURG SAY ABOUT SWINGING
>THE
> > > VOTE TO BUSH, AND WHY WERE THE REPUBLICANS RUNNING NADER ADS DURING 
>THE
> > > CAMPAIGN?
> > >
> > > Fred's: The fact that Amy Goodman reported on Nader does not mean that
> > WBAI
> > > was a station controlled by the Greens.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(IT WAS A DOMINANT TREND)
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- There's a deep imbalance> of perspective that
>needs
> > to
> > > be corrected here in terms of the Green Party> histortic role in 2001,
> > > causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and Rep's> as no worse.
> > > (Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green voting> base!!
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply:  The Dems are not a threat to the Greens, the Greens did
>not
> > > defeat Al Gore.  Al Gore and the DNC and massive corporate-sponsored
> > > campaigning turned off voters and defeated Al Gore.  Half of all
>registers
> > > don't vote.  Half a billion dollars worth of corporatecontributions 
>did
> > not
> > > change that.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(HOLY MACKERAL! AL GORE WON! THIS IS WHAT I MEAN WHEN I 
>SAY
> > THE
> > > GREENS AS WELL AS MUCH OF THE, DARE I SAY, PETIT-BOURG 'LEFT', DE 
>FACTO,
> > > GIVE BUSH2 & THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT A FREE PASS.  RECALL THAT WHEN THE
> > > ELECTION WAS BEING STOLEN IN FLORIDA & BY D.C.'S OBSCENE COURT, NOT 
>FROM
> > > GORE, MIND YOU, BUT FROM THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO DID VOTE, THE 
>NADER
> > > SUPPORTERS WENT WHERE?  BACK TO SEATTLE FOR "GLOBALIZATION PROTEST, 
>PART
> > > II"- UNFORTUNATELY, NADER AND THE GREENS ALLOWED THEIR, MORE-OR-LESS
>WELL
> > > INTENDED, MAINLY WHITE & MIDDLE-CLASS, CONSTITUENCY BELIEVE THAT IT 
>WAS
> > > BETTER TO *PROTEST* GLOBAL IMPERIALISM THAN TO *SEIZE POWER* FROM ITS
>MOST
> > > JINGOISTIC, BACKWARD,& REACTIONARY REPRESENTATIVES (ie: the
>f-f-FASCISTS)
> > AS
> > > THEY WERE BUSY UNDERMINING THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL VOTE, TRAMPLING ON
>THE
> > > VOTER RIGHTS ACT OF 1964, AND THROWING THE 13TH, 14TH, & 15TH
>AMMENDMENTS
> > > OUT THE SCARY WINDOW--ALL OF WHICH, OF COURSE, AFFECT THE POOREST AND
> > > OPPRESSED NATIONALISTIES MOST AND FIRST.
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, suburban
> > Montclair
> > > was there, but> not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., let 
>alone
> > the
> > > working class> from any town)  This same opportunism causes the P.B.,
>esp.
> > > on the left, to> think that only when it comes for THEM, then it's
>worthy
> > of
> > > the name> fascism!
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply:  Actually, Ralph Nader did have some very large popular
> > > rallies around the country that were not covered by the mass medias.
>It's
> > a
> > > bitch to try to be prez without money and free publicity from the
> > corporate
> > > medias.  WBAI was doing what it's mission states: air the voices of
> > dissent
> > > that are not presented anywhere else.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(AS WBAI SHOULD, NO DOUBT...BUT THE PROBLEM AGAIN WITH THE
> > GREEN
> > > PARTY STRATEGY IS THAT THEY HAVE WANTED THE HEAD WITHOUT BUILDING THE
> > BODY.
> > > WELL BEFORE NADER CAME STROLLING, LA-DI-DA, INTO THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN
> > SOME
> > > TIME LATE- WAY BACK DURING THE PRIMARY SEASON, "UNITY & STRUGGLE" 
>ISSUED
> > THE
> > > CALL TO FORM A 'LEFT-BLOC' UNITED FRONT TO "MARCH SEPERATELY, STRIKE
> > > TOGETHER" AGAINST THE FAR-RIGHT IN GERNERAL,  TO PUSH BRADLEY TO THE
>LEFT
> > IN
> > > OPPOSITION TO GORE, AND TO AIM SPECIFIC BLOWS AT, FOR INSTANCE, THE
>CLOSED
> > > BOURGEOIS DEBATE FORUM AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE (IMAGINE!).  BUT ALSO
>TO
> > > RUN CAMPAIGNS WHERE WE CAN WIN! (CONCRETELY: WE HAD A CITY COUNCIL 
>RACE
>IN
> > > NEW BRUNSWICK IN 2000 WHERE WE UNITED WITH GREENS ON A "PEOPLES'
> > DEMOCRACY"
> > > CAMPAIGN, & NOW WE ARE BACKING RAS BARAKA2002 FOR CITY COUNCIL IN
>NEWARK.)
> > > BUT LOOK! HERE COME THE NJGREENS AGAIN, UNCRITICALLY, THREATENING WITH
>THE
> > > SAME BLUNDER THAT BROUGHT US B2, NOW IN AN ABSOLUTELY UNWINABLE
> > GUBENETORIAL
> > > RACE IN NJ, DECLARING THAT THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 
>CENTRIST-PUPPET
> > > MCGREEVY AND FAR-RIGHT IDEOLOGUE SCHUNDLER, OR AT LEAST NOT ENOUGH FOR
>THE
> > > NJGREENS TO INSTEAD ENDORSE A LEFT-BLOC UNITED FRONT STRATEGY-THEIR
> > PROBLEM
> > > (WHICH IS NOW OUR PROBLEM) IS THAT THEY WANT TO GO IT ALONE, RATHER 
>THAN
> > > JOINING IN A UNITED FRONT TO RUN CAMPAIGNS  WHERE WE CAN WIN, AND YES,
> > > UNITING AGAINST THE WORSE EVIL IN THE SHORT-TERM.   (BUSH/SCHUNDLER)
> > > OPPORTUNISM IS ESSENTIALLY SACRIFICING THE LONG-TERM GOAL FOR THE 
>SHORT
> > > TERM.  THIS IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH I APPLY THE TERM TO THE GREEN 
>PARTY
> > > STRATEGY.
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- Yet, how many more times will we hear many of 
>the
> > same
> > > people say,> "It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real
>fascists)
> > > because it will> only strengthen the resisitance"Reply:  Someone said
> > that?
> > > Who? David Rothenberg?  Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar in> the
> > > 1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending Amy
>Goodman>
> > &
> > > Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to this mess.
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply:  What led to this mess is the Corporation for Public
> > > Broadcasting funding which allowed board members from large 
>corporations
> > to
> > > be named to the Pacifica Board and a Series of executives with
>connections
> > > with the Clinton administration to take over Pacifica and undertake 
>its
> > > destruction.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHERE THE DOMINANT TREND
>OF
> > > GREEN SUPPORT AT THE OLD WBAI AND THE GREEN PARTY ITSELF, IF NOT DE 
>JURY
> > > THEN DE FACTO, ESPOUSE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS A GREATER THREAT 
>TO
> > THEM
> > > THAN THE REPUBLICAN AND FAR-RIGHT.  THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE AN
>INTRIGUING
> > > CASE TO BE MADE THAT UTRICE LEID & CO. REPRESENT THE STRONG-ARM OF A
> > > DEMOCRATIC PARTY TAKE-OVER AND 'NPR'-ING OF WBAI (& WE ALL KNOW THAT
> > > CORPORATE 'UNDERWRITING' IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER) AGAIN, AS I SAID,
>ONLY
> > > THE CONFUSED NOTION THAT THE BOURGEOISIE'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY EVER 
>WORKED
>IN
> > > THE TRUE INTERESTS OF THE W.C. WOULD STIR UP THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS
> > INDIGNATION
> > > THAT FOLLOWS BETRAYAL.  BUT WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THIS TAKE-OVER OF 
>WBAI
> > DOES
> > > NOT EXIST IN ISOLATION FROM THE CORPORATE TAKE-OVER OF ALL SPHERES OF
> > PUBLIC
> > > LIFE & CULTURE?  HOW LONG HAS NPR BEEN RUNNIN LEXUS ADS AFTER ALL?  
>HOW
> > > ABOUT THE COOPTATION OF HIP-HOP?  JAZZ?  THE BLUES?  IF YOU READ AMIRI
> > > BARAKA'S RECENT SLAMMING OF THE ENSUING COOPTATION OF SLAM-POETRY,
>YOU'LL
> > > SEE THE SAME TREND.  THIS IS AS OLD AS CONSTANTINE'S "CONVERSION" TO
> > > CHRISTIANITY.  THE DIFFERENCE WITH WBAI IS THAT IT'S SUCH A VITAL
> > COMPONENT
> > > OF THE REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRATIC STRUGGLE AND LOSING IT AS A RESOURCE 
>IS
> > > STILL BIZARRELY UNTHINKABLE.  BUT SO WHAT IF WE CAN AGREE THAT THE
> > DEMOCRATS
> > > ARE THE IMMEDIATE ASSASSINES.  THIS DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT
>THAT
> > > WHILE IMPERIALISM IS TAKING OVER MORE AND MORE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS 
>(BTW,
> > MR.
> > > JERRY COLEMAN- SCHUNDLER WANTS TO PRIVATIZE LIBRARIES!!) THE **ENTIRE
> > > POLITICAL SPECTRUM** HAS SHIFTED RIGHT.  NOT JUST, SIMPLY, AND/OR ONLY
>THE
> > > DEMOCRATS, VIA NEW-DEM CLINTON, AS THE GREENS PROFESS WHEN THEY 
>SUGGEST
> > THE
> > > MORPHING OF THE TWO PARTIES!  THIS IS OBJECTIVE AND IRREFUTABLE, ONE
>WOULD
> > > THINK.
> > >
> > > Fred's: David Rothenberg knows.  Al Lewis knows.  Bob Lederer, Robert
> > > Knight, Juan Gonzales, Deepa Fernandes, Mimi Rosenberg, Verna Avery
>Brown,
> > > Mario Murillo, Ken Nash and Bernard White's Wake Up Call's crew know.
>The
> > > democratic party will not save us.  They are running the same national
> > > security state and prison/military industrial complex with the same
> > motives
> > > of fear, greed and hubris than their republican friends.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(YES, YES.  INOTHERWORDS, THEY ARE ALL IMERIALISTS.  LET'S
> > CALL
> > > IT WHAT IT IS.)
> > >
> > >
> > > Fred's: Wake up Matt,
> > >
> > > (PRESENTE!)
> > >
> > > WBAI and Pacifica were the ALTERNATIVE RADIO.  After that, yes, the
> > fascist
> > > state will have silenced us and few Democrats will have said a thing.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(AGREED.  NOW LET US UNITE TO:RIP DOWN THE CONFEDERATE
> > > FLAG!ABOLISH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!BEAT BACK SCHUNDLER!SEIZE POWER
> > > EVERYWHERE THAT REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY CAN ADVANCE!AND, FINALLY,
>UTELIZE
> > > REASON & SCIENCE AS WELL AS PASSION....IN THE STRUGGLE FOR
>NITY  -MATTHEW
> > > SMITH)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1986
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-08-28 19:57:57
Subject:Fwd: nominations:
Message:

--- In njfo@y..., cliffsmith69@h... wrote:
keith joseph for nbpc chair.

draft diego
morales para mayor!

peoples' democracy,
cliff
--- End forwarded message ---








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1987
Sender:"David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-28 22:54:49
Subject:Re: [onepeoplesproject] Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
Message:

This is neither a response to my remarks nor an analysis.

". . . there is no slander in an allowed fool, though he do nothing but
rail"
-Twelfth Night


----- Original Message -----
From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>; <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>;
<amirib@...>; <jmodibo@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:31 PM
Subject: [onepeoplesproject] Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing
Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists


> all eyes on hunger-fraud the "judas-goat".
>
> the "first thing to do", under the circumstances, is to keep the "butcher"
> out of "recognized" political power, i.e. governor, president...
>
> this means now: smash schundler! keep mcgreasy in the fire!
> as we build the necessary peoples' political organization to defeat them
> both.
>
> you shd know that hunger-fraud encouraged splitting the anti-bush vote in
> '00, endorsing nadir's folly,
>
> & encouraged splitting the anti-dole vote in '96, saying the
contradictions
> between clinton & dole were "illusions", and endorsing a "boycott".
>
> objectively (which matters most) this is the "butcher's" best strategy for
> the peoples' forces.
>
> science, not schemes.
>
> cliff
>
>
>
> >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>,
> ><siddharta5@...>, <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> >CC: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>, <amirib@...>,
> ><MeadHajduk@...>, <hajdukmi@...>, <jmodibo@...>,
> ><Paul4sure@...>
> >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew,
> >Howard, Fascists
> >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:28:34 -0400
> >
> >You bring up a lot of points, Howard. Let me respond to a few.
> >
> >Your historic reference to Hitler is factually inaccurate. The Hit-man
was
> >never elected. He was appointed to the chancellorship of Germany when the
> >Nazi vote was declining and class struggle was acute and rising. The
> >Communist Party was large and active, the most consistent opponent of the
> >Nazis. The bourgeoisie turned to fascism because the outbreak of
revolution
> >was too likely for them to continue with parliamentary democracy.
> >
> >Hitler was able to consolidate his grip because the right-wing Social
> >Democrats (Gerry Schroeder's direct political ancestors) caved in to the
> >Nazis and broke ranks with the working class forces. They were labor
union
> >bureaucrats like the AFL-CIO bureaucracy that is so slavishly tied to the
> >Democrats.
> >
> >What we need are firm and consistent political organizations that serve
the
> >people, not the bourgeoisie. The Democrats have always impeded this kind
of
> >organization. If the Republicans are the butcher, the Dems are the Judas
> >goat that leads the people to the slaughter. In such a situation the
first
> >thing to do is to get people to stop following the Judas goat. If the
goat
> >is no longer effective then even the butcher is going to find his whole
act
> >no longer works. In the case of the NJ Gov election, McGreevey doesn't
want
> >voters to have a choice to his left. But neither does Schundler! That's
> >where someone like Coleman can play a part.
> >
> >We need the same things today that the people have always needed: a
genuine
> >revolutionary party of the working class, that is, a Communist Party that
> >can alone give real and consistent leadership against the bourgeoisie;
and,
> >a broad united-front electoral and "legal" party (legality is always a
very
> >dodgy thing under capitalism) to break the grip of  Repubocrats. But you
> >are
> >right on the main point: we need a revolution. This can only be brought
> >about by the working class. That is why we need the Communist Party
(i.e.,
> >a
> >real one.)
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
> >To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>;
> ><siddharta5@...>; <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> >Cc: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>; <amirib@...>;
> ><MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>; <jmodibo@...>;
> ><Paul4sure@...>
> >Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:12 PM
> >Subject: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard,
> >Fascists
> >
> >
> > > I hope these are my last mumblings on this subject.
> > >
> > > IF nothing else, candidates such as Nader and Coleman help to bring up
> > > issues most critical to the well-being of the community. When their
> >message
> > > reaches the public, it serves to hold the leading contenders' feet to
> >the
> > > fire.
> > > The major point of dispute is whether a 3rd party candidate will cause
> >[has
> > > caused] the loss of the least crappy of the two leading contenders.
> > > If we all keep voting for Gores and McGreevys, election after
election,
> >how
> > > does it suddenly become possible for a true progressive to ever win --
> >the
> > > public will not have heard of that person before?!
> > >
> > > In the absence of a Hitler-like main contender, a rational path could
be
> > > to put adequate resources into supporting progressive Assembly,
> > > Senate and Council candidates -- who control legislation, and take the
> > > Chinese long view of the Governorship by continuing to put up worthy
> > > candidates for that office, even tho it may allow the greater of 2
evils
> >to
> > > win. If the PEOPLE don't get the message of their bad decision in
short
> > > order, then the people are the problem. Meanwhile the 3rd party
> >candidate
> > > and party should keep up the promotion of their better ideas BETWEEN
> > > elections to keep the education of the public rolling and to prime the
> > > public awareness for the next election.
> > >
> > > On the national scene, either Nader and the Green Party have failed to
> >TRY
> > > do this since the Supreme Court COUP, or the masses have not gotten
the
> > > Green Party's continuing message
> > > for other reasons [lack of GP funds, ostracized from public media
> >outlets,
> > > ...]
> > >
> > > If it's a Hitler vs a Crap in a close race next time, it would be
> >suicide
> >to
> > > vote for 3rd, 4th, 5th party candidates. Germany learned and taught us
> >that
> > > back in the late 1920's and 1930's. Short of that kind of choice, a
> >worthy
> > > 3rd party candidate exposes and infects the general populace with a
> >better
> > > TRUTH, exposes lies, and proposes plans for a better way.
> > >
> > > In the absence of reasonably detailed plans [including sources of
> >funding
> > > for the plan] presented to support the progressive program planks, the
> > > public should assume the candidate is so full of crap that it's
> >overflowing
> > > as political blather, sentimental rather than hard-headed sensible..
> > >
> > > In a democracy I don't see a better, less painful way to get the job
> >done
> > > after decades of political neglect BY THE VOTING AGE PUBLIC. If we
> > > externalize the problem onto rotten politicians, we compound the
problem
> >by
> > > not owning it as OUR personal responsibility or lack thereof in being
> > > participants in our own democratic government.
> > >
> > > We need a gahdam Revolution in what it means to be a citizen; maybe
the
> > > coming economic collapse will kick us all in the cortex and colon.
> > >
> > > I applaud and admire your continuing efforts to register, educate and
> >get
> > > the vote out.
> > > If I am not a complete slimeball, I'll join you on Sat and/or Sundays.
> > > Regarding Leid's management techniques and Fascism as applied to
> >business,
> > > 'If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and floats like a
> >duck,
> > > and flies like a duck, and ducks the truth like a duck, and looks like
> >duck,
> > > is it really a ventriliquising goose, or is it PERHAPS a duck?'
> > >
> > > Up justice.
> > >
> > > Horrid
> > >
> > > P.S. How can we believe the latest poll of 395 people as indicating
> >McGreevy
> > > has a very large lead over Schundler, when we don't know whether the
> > > demographics of the 395 polled match the demographics of the millions
of
> > > expected-to-vote citizens. I admit my blatant ignorance of statistics,
> >but
> > > how can they calculate a margin of error without knowing the true
> >outcome
> >of
> > > the election against which to compare their statistical sample of 395?
> >What
> > > are all of the assumptions made in this report? Are we being lulled
into
> > > complacency like Dewey was in his race against Truman?
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > > To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>; <siddharta5@...>;
> > > <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Cc: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>;
> > > <amirib@...>; <MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>;
> > > <jmodibo@...>; <Paul4sure@...>
> > > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:45 PM
> > > Subject: [poprogress] Response to Fred & Howard Re: Rothenberg's
> >analysis
> >of
> > > the fascist rule and WBAI
> > >
> > >
> > > > (I WISH TO THANK FRED N.(NJFRIENDS) & HOWARD (P.O.P.) FOR RESPONDING
> >TO
> >MY
> > > > POST RE: ROTHENBERG'S ADDRESS OF SITUATION AT WBAI.  IT'S
ENCOURAGING
> >THAT
> > > > NOT EVERYONE THINKS THIS DEBATE ALSO INVOLVING THE 2000 NATIONAL
> >ELECTIONS
> > > > IS EITHER FINISHED, FUTILE, OR SIMPLY A THREAT TO THEIR ASPIRATIONS.
> >I'VE
> > > > DONE MY BEST TO RESPOND TO BOTH ARGUMENTS, BY WAY OF FRED'S
> >LETTER--AND
> >TO
> > > > HOWARD I WOULD ONLY ADD THAT WHILE YOUR LETTER WAS VERY ARTICULATE
AND
> > > > MOVINGLY PASSIONATE, YOU NEGLECTED SOME OF THE MOST CRITICAL ISSUES
I
> > > > RAISED.  MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS BELOW -MATTHEW SMITH, UNITY &
> >STRUGGLE)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Fred N. wrote:
> > > > Friends,This post was sent to the friends of wbai - NJ list which is
> >not
> >a
> > > > discussionboard but anannouncement board which I moderate.I will not
> >post
> > > it
> > > > but will respond below as interspersed in CAPS:Fred N. (NJ)-
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -- original message-- Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...> wrote:>>
> >This
> > > is
> > > > an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's>
support
> >of
> > > > Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush &> the
> >right
> > > > stole the 2001 election.
> > > >
> > > > Fred's Reply: There has never been an endorsement of Ralph Nader by
> >WBAI
> > > >
> > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- WHILE THERE ARE, NO WERE, MANY DIVERSE VOICES AT
> >WBAI,
> > > > THERE WAS CLEARLY A DOMINANT TREND AMONGST THE NOW 'BANNED AND
FIRED'
> >WHO
> > > > WERE THE MOST ARDENT SUPPORTERS OF NADER, AND THERE IS ALOT OF
OVERLAP
> >IN
> > > > TERMS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE BASE OF SUPPORTERS.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -- original message-- Interesting, but one of David> Rothenburg's
main
> > > > errors (similar to what we've heard from> WBAI/naderites/greens
since
> >the
> > > > X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead with> Hitler (Lead is a
> >bullying
> > > > traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, but> not a fascist & to
> >call
> > > her
> > > > a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 &> Co.--though WBAI coup is
> > > > certainly part of erotion of democracy in US),> According to
> >Rothenberg,
> > > the
> > > > #1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, while> Bush2/Republican/REAL
> > > > FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of proper> historic
> >analysis)
> > > > even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that WBAI's> support
of
> > > Nader
> > > > helped throw the election to B2!!
> > > >
> > > > Fred's Reply:  I did not listen to David Rothenberg's talk, where,
by
> >the
> > > > way, heannounces that he maynever return because he is likely to be
> >fired
> > > > for saying what he was saying.
> > > >
> > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- SINCE THIS IS OUR FIRST EXCHANGE, LET ME
REITERATE
> >UP
> > > > FRONT MY UNBENDING, BUT CRITICAL, SUPPORT FOR THE EXILE COMMUNITY AT
> >WBAI.
> > > > WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING THERE IS A TRAVESTY AND AN ASSAULT ON
> >DEMOCRACY,
> > > AS
> > > > WBAI HAS BEEN A GREAT AND NECESSARY PUBLIC INSTITUTION.  & TO BE
SURE,
> >I
> > > > HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT I CAN TO SHOW THAT SUPPORT, (DISPENSING
> >INFORMATION,
> > > > ATTENDING RALLIES, MAKING PHONE CALLS), THOUGH IT NEVER FEELS LIKE
> >ENOUGH
> > > > WHEN EVERY WEEK ANOTHER IMPORTANT VOICE IS SILENCED....)
> > > >
> > > > Fred's: Ido agree withDavid on the point that the methods used by
> >Utrice
> > > > Leid are common to thefascists (suppression ofspeech,
> >intimidation/public
> > > > humiliation, false claims of theft/violence andconstant
> >personalattacks.
> >
> > > U.
> > > > Leid also installed an 8 camera audio-video serveillance
> >systemcomplete
> > > > withcard-key entry system which makes Rykers Island look low tech.
> > > >
> > > > MY RESPONSE:(I HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH DRAWING COMPARISONS TO THE
> >METHODS
> > > USED
> > > > TO LOCK OUT THE DISSENTING VOICES WITH 'AUTHORITARIAN' OR
> >'TOTALITARIAN'
> > > > METHODS ASSOCIATED WITH A CORPORATE TAKE-OVER, BUT 'FASCISM' HAS A
> >VERY
> > > > SPECIFIC MEANING...MY ARGUEMENT WAS IS THAT UTRICE LEID HERSELF HAS
> >BEEN
> > > > LABELED A 'FASCIST' WITH THE SAME SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION THAT
> >CHIDED
> > > > SOME OF US DURING THE ELECTION FOR POINTING TO THE DANGER OF THE
> > > BUSH2CREW,
> > > > THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT & CORPORATE FASCISTS (MORE ON THAT BELOW)
> > > >
> > > > Fred's: I also agreethat the DemocraticParty has betrayed the
American
> > > > working class and is now dominated by people whoare doing thebidding
> >of
> > > very
> > > > large corporations and global finance interests.
> > > >
> > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- ONLY SOME KIND OF CONFUSION THAT THE DEM'S EVER
> >SERVED
> > > > THE INTEREST OF THE AMREICAN W.C. WOULD LEAD ANYONE TO THINK THAT
THEY
> > > HAVE
> > > > SINCE BETRAYED THEM.  THE DEM. PARTY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BOURGEOIS
> >PARTY,
> > > AND
> > > > HAS ALWAYS BEEN DOMINATED BY PEOPLE DOING BIDDING OF LARGE
> >CORPORATIONS.
> > > > EVEN ROOSEVELT, WHO "SAVED CAPITIALISM FROM THE CAPITALISTS".  OUR
> > > ARGUMENT
> > > > HERE, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE ROOSEVELT THAN HITLER.
> >THE
> > > > GREENS HELPED BRING US WHO?....WHAT DID ROTHENBURG SAY ABOUT
SWINGING
> >THE
> > > > VOTE TO BUSH, AND WHY WERE THE REPUBLICANS RUNNING NADER ADS DURING
> >THE
> > > > CAMPAIGN?
> > > >
> > > > Fred's: The fact that Amy Goodman reported on Nader does not mean
that
> > > WBAI
> > > > was a station controlled by the Greens.
> > > >
> > > > MY RESPONSE:(IT WAS A DOMINANT TREND)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -- original message-- There's a deep imbalance> of perspective that
> >needs
> > > to
> > > > be corrected here in terms of the Green Party> histortic role in
2001,
> > > > causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and Rep's> as no worse.
> > > > (Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green voting>
base!!
> > > >
> > > > Fred's Reply:  The Dems are not a threat to the Greens, the Greens
did
> >not
> > > > defeat Al Gore.  Al Gore and the DNC and massive corporate-sponsored
> > > > campaigning turned off voters and defeated Al Gore.  Half of all
> >registers
> > > > don't vote.  Half a billion dollars worth of corporatecontributions
> >did
> > > not
> > > > change that.
> > > >
> > > > MY RESPONSE:(HOLY MACKERAL! AL GORE WON! THIS IS WHAT I MEAN WHEN I
> >SAY
> > > THE
> > > > GREENS AS WELL AS MUCH OF THE, DARE I SAY, PETIT-BOURG 'LEFT', DE
> >FACTO,
> > > > GIVE BUSH2 & THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT A FREE PASS.  RECALL THAT WHEN THE
> > > > ELECTION WAS BEING STOLEN IN FLORIDA & BY D.C.'S OBSCENE COURT, NOT
> >FROM
> > > > GORE, MIND YOU, BUT FROM THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO DID VOTE, THE
> >NADER
> > > > SUPPORTERS WENT WHERE?  BACK TO SEATTLE FOR "GLOBALIZATION PROTEST,
> >PART
> > > > II"- UNFORTUNATELY, NADER AND THE GREENS ALLOWED THEIR, MORE-OR-LESS
> >WELL
> > > > INTENDED, MAINLY WHITE & MIDDLE-CLASS, CONSTITUENCY BELIEVE THAT IT
> >WAS
> > > > BETTER TO *PROTEST* GLOBAL IMPERIALISM THAN TO *SEIZE POWER* FROM
ITS
> >MOST
> > > > JINGOISTIC, BACKWARD,& REACTIONARY REPRESENTATIVES (ie: the
> >f-f-FASCISTS)
> > > AS
> > > > THEY WERE BUSY UNDERMINING THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL VOTE, TRAMPLING
ON
> >THE
> > > > VOTER RIGHTS ACT OF 1964, AND THROWING THE 13TH, 14TH, & 15TH
> >AMMENDMENTS
> > > > OUT THE SCARY WINDOW--ALL OF WHICH, OF COURSE, AFFECT THE POOREST
AND
> > > > OPPRESSED NATIONALISTIES MOST AND FIRST.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -- original message-- To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, suburban
> > > Montclair
> > > > was there, but> not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., let
> >alone
> > > the
> > > > working class> from any town)  This same opportunism causes the
P.B.,
> >esp.
> > > > on the left, to> think that only when it comes for THEM, then it's
> >worthy
> > > of
> > > > the name> fascism!
> > > >
> > > > Fred's Reply:  Actually, Ralph Nader did have some very large
popular
> > > > rallies around the country that were not covered by the mass medias.
> >It's
> > > a
> > > > bitch to try to be prez without money and free publicity from the
> > > corporate
> > > > medias.  WBAI was doing what it's mission states: air the voices of
> > > dissent
> > > > that are not presented anywhere else.
> > > >
> > > > MY RESPONSE:(AS WBAI SHOULD, NO DOUBT...BUT THE PROBLEM AGAIN WITH
THE
> > > GREEN
> > > > PARTY STRATEGY IS THAT THEY HAVE WANTED THE HEAD WITHOUT BUILDING
THE
> > > BODY.
> > > > WELL BEFORE NADER CAME STROLLING, LA-DI-DA, INTO THE ELECTION
CAMPAIGN
> > > SOME
> > > > TIME LATE- WAY BACK DURING THE PRIMARY SEASON, "UNITY & STRUGGLE"
> >ISSUED
> > > THE
> > > > CALL TO FORM A 'LEFT-BLOC' UNITED FRONT TO "MARCH SEPERATELY, STRIKE
> > > > TOGETHER" AGAINST THE FAR-RIGHT IN GERNERAL,  TO PUSH BRADLEY TO THE
> >LEFT
> > > IN
> > > > OPPOSITION TO GORE, AND TO AIM SPECIFIC BLOWS AT, FOR INSTANCE, THE
> >CLOSED
> > > > BOURGEOIS DEBATE FORUM AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE (IMAGINE!).  BUT
ALSO
> >TO
> > > > RUN CAMPAIGNS WHERE WE CAN WIN! (CONCRETELY: WE HAD A CITY COUNCIL
> >RACE
> >IN
> > > > NEW BRUNSWICK IN 2000 WHERE WE UNITED WITH GREENS ON A "PEOPLES'
> > > DEMOCRACY"
> > > > CAMPAIGN, & NOW WE ARE BACKING RAS BARAKA2002 FOR CITY COUNCIL IN
> >NEWARK.)
> > > > BUT LOOK! HERE COME THE NJGREENS AGAIN, UNCRITICALLY, THREATENING
WITH
> >THE
> > > > SAME BLUNDER THAT BROUGHT US B2, NOW IN AN ABSOLUTELY UNWINABLE
> > > GUBENETORIAL
> > > > RACE IN NJ, DECLARING THAT THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
> >CENTRIST-PUPPET
> > > > MCGREEVY AND FAR-RIGHT IDEOLOGUE SCHUNDLER, OR AT LEAST NOT ENOUGH
FOR
> >THE
> > > > NJGREENS TO INSTEAD ENDORSE A LEFT-BLOC UNITED FRONT STRATEGY-THEIR
> > > PROBLEM
> > > > (WHICH IS NOW OUR PROBLEM) IS THAT THEY WANT TO GO IT ALONE, RATHER
> >THAN
> > > > JOINING IN A UNITED FRONT TO RUN CAMPAIGNS  WHERE WE CAN WIN, AND
YES,
> > > > UNITING AGAINST THE WORSE EVIL IN THE SHORT-TERM.   (BUSH/SCHUNDLER)
> > > > OPPORTUNISM IS ESSENTIALLY SACRIFICING THE LONG-TERM GOAL FOR THE
> >SHORT
> > > > TERM.  THIS IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH I APPLY THE TERM TO THE GREEN
> >PARTY
> > > > STRATEGY.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -- original message-- Yet, how many more times will we hear many of
> >the
> > > same
> > > > people say,> "It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real
> >fascists)
> > > > because it will> only strengthen the resisitance"Reply:  Someone
said
> > > that?
> > > > Who? David Rothenberg?  Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar in>
the
> > > > 1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending Amy
> >Goodman>
> > > &
> > > > Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to this
mess.
> > > >
> > > > Fred's Reply:  What led to this mess is the Corporation for Public
> > > > Broadcasting funding which allowed board members from large
> >corporations
> > > to
> > > > be named to the Pacifica Board and a Series of executives with
> >connections
> > > > with the Clinton administration to take over Pacifica and undertake
> >its
> > > > destruction.
> > > >
> > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHERE THE DOMINANT
TREND
> >OF
> > > > GREEN SUPPORT AT THE OLD WBAI AND THE GREEN PARTY ITSELF, IF NOT DE
> >JURY
> > > > THEN DE FACTO, ESPOUSE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS A GREATER THREAT
> >TO
> > > THEM
> > > > THAN THE REPUBLICAN AND FAR-RIGHT.  THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE AN
> >INTRIGUING
> > > > CASE TO BE MADE THAT UTRICE LEID & CO. REPRESENT THE STRONG-ARM OF A
> > > > DEMOCRATIC PARTY TAKE-OVER AND 'NPR'-ING OF WBAI (& WE ALL KNOW THAT
> > > > CORPORATE 'UNDERWRITING' IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER) AGAIN, AS I
SAID,
> >ONLY
> > > > THE CONFUSED NOTION THAT THE BOURGEOISIE'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY EVER
> >WORKED
> >IN
> > > > THE TRUE INTERESTS OF THE W.C. WOULD STIR UP THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS
> > > INDIGNATION
> > > > THAT FOLLOWS BETRAYAL.  BUT WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THIS TAKE-OVER OF
> >WBAI
> > > DOES
> > > > NOT EXIST IN ISOLATION FROM THE CORPORATE TAKE-OVER OF ALL SPHERES
OF
> > > PUBLIC
> > > > LIFE & CULTURE?  HOW LONG HAS NPR BEEN RUNNIN LEXUS ADS AFTER ALL?
> >HOW
> > > > ABOUT THE COOPTATION OF HIP-HOP?  JAZZ?  THE BLUES?  IF YOU READ
AMIRI
> > > > BARAKA'S RECENT SLAMMING OF THE ENSUING COOPTATION OF SLAM-POETRY,
> >YOU'LL
> > > > SEE THE SAME TREND.  THIS IS AS OLD AS CONSTANTINE'S "CONVERSION" TO
> > > > CHRISTIANITY.  THE DIFFERENCE WITH WBAI IS THAT IT'S SUCH A VITAL
> > > COMPONENT
> > > > OF THE REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRATIC STRUGGLE AND LOSING IT AS A RESOURCE
> >IS
> > > > STILL BIZARRELY UNTHINKABLE.  BUT SO WHAT IF WE CAN AGREE THAT THE
> > > DEMOCRATS
> > > > ARE THE IMMEDIATE ASSASSINES.  THIS DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT
> >THAT
> > > > WHILE IMPERIALISM IS TAKING OVER MORE AND MORE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS
> >(BTW,
> > > MR.
> > > > JERRY COLEMAN- SCHUNDLER WANTS TO PRIVATIZE LIBRARIES!!) THE
**ENTIRE
> > > > POLITICAL SPECTRUM** HAS SHIFTED RIGHT.  NOT JUST, SIMPLY, AND/OR
ONLY
> >THE
> > > > DEMOCRATS, VIA NEW-DEM CLINTON, AS THE GREENS PROFESS WHEN THEY
> >SUGGEST
> > > THE
> > > > MORPHING OF THE TWO PARTIES!  THIS IS OBJECTIVE AND IRREFUTABLE, ONE
> >WOULD
> > > > THINK.
> > > >
> > > > Fred's: David Rothenberg knows.  Al Lewis knows.  Bob Lederer,
Robert
> > > > Knight, Juan Gonzales, Deepa Fernandes, Mimi Rosenberg, Verna Avery
> >Brown,
> > > > Mario Murillo, Ken Nash and Bernard White's Wake Up Call's crew
know.
> >The
> > > > democratic party will not save us.  They are running the same
national
> > > > security state and prison/military industrial complex with the same
> > > motives
> > > > of fear, greed and hubris than their republican friends.
> > > >
> > > > MY RESPONSE:(YES, YES.  INOTHERWORDS, THEY ARE ALL IMERIALISTS.
LET'S
> > > CALL
> > > > IT WHAT IT IS.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Fred's: Wake up Matt,
> > > >
> > > > (PRESENTE!)
> > > >
> > > > WBAI and Pacifica were the ALTERNATIVE RADIO.  After that, yes, the
> > > fascist
> > > > state will have silenced us and few Democrats will have said a
thing.
> > > >
> > > > MY RESPONSE:(AGREED.  NOW LET US UNITE TO:RIP DOWN THE CONFEDERATE
> > > > FLAG!ABOLISH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!BEAT BACK SCHUNDLER!SEIZE POWER
> > > > EVERYWHERE THAT REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY CAN ADVANCE!AND, FINALLY,
> >UTELIZE
> > > > REASON & SCIENCE AS WELL AS PASSION....IN THE STRUGGLE FOR
> >NITY  -MATTHEW
> > > > SMITH)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
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> >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
>
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>
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>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1988
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-29 16:48:45
Subject:[PROLIBERTAD] Mumia Abu Jamal Statement to the UN Conf.
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is proud to forward out this statement from 
our brother Mumia Abu Jamal, an African-American Political Prisoner on death 
row, about the UN World Conference Against Racism, Racial Discrimination, 
Xenophobia and Related Intolernace.

FREE MUMIA!!
LIBERTAD PARA MUMIA!!
FREE THE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS!!


puertorico-media@egroups.com, abcf-ern@egroups.com, afrocuba@egroups.com, 
Amnestyinternational@egroups.com, anti-nato@egroups.com, 
antiracial@egroups.com, apforum@egroups.com, ariseaction@egroups.com, 
asiansformumia@egroups.com, awarcomp@egroups.com, awolmagazine@egroups.com, 
Border01@egroups.com, bolivia-politica@egroups.com, cedp_dc@egroups.com, 
change-links@egroups.com, clas@egroups.com, common-sense@egroups.com, 
critresisteast@egroups.com, cuaf@egroups.com, cuba-politica@egroups.com, 
cubasi@egroups.com, cuba-va@egroups.com, COMINFORM2000@egroups.com, 
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earthfirstalert@egroups.com, dnc2k@egroups.com, 
ecologyemergency@egroups.com, democratic-marxists@egroups.com, 
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Indigenous_peoples_literature@egroups.com, Jailsupport@egroups.com, 
JohnLiu2001@egroups.com, marxist@egroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, 
necessarydissent@egroups.com, njfo@egroups.com

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1989
Sender:"Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-29 20:16:33
Subject:Reply to Dave--Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
Message:

I welcome this never-ending exchange.

You must have misconstrued my references to Hitler. I nowhere said or
intended to say that Hitler had been elected to lead Germany. My comments
and thrust was that Hitler came to power because due to a fragmented
opposition -- the tortality of this opposition was the majority in the
German parliament. Due to their fragmentation and diunity on
crucial-to-the-public matters in the few years following the 1929
depression, much of the public lost faith in bickering middle and left
parties, such that the Nazi Party moved from less than 10% to about 45%
representation in the parliament in about
2 years. This enormous growth was at the expense of the ruling but
ineffective middle indecisive [indecisive on social-economic matters]
shrinking majority.
Hitler thereby obtained much stronger support from
financial-industrial-military interests who viewed him as the soon to be
majority force in politics -- a force that appeared to favor the interests
of these 3 groups much more so than the paralyzed shrinking middle and the
increased strength also of the Communist party. The Communists were seen as
a growing threat to the power of the those 3 groups -- certainly of the
financial-industrial powers.
This is one of the key concerns in democracy with proportional
representation -- 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc smaller parties make policy making and
decision execution more difficult. The policies may be better than the those
deriving from a 2-party system, but they may also be worse.
In any event, the Nazis took advantage of their tremendous leap in public
support, and thru their machinations, despite a 15% or so loss in a
near-term subsequent election, Hindenburg was forced to recommend Hitler's
appointment to

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>;
<siddharta5@...>; <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>; <amirib@...>;
<MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>; <jmodibo@...>;
<Paul4sure@...>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard,
Fascists


> You bring up a lot of points, Howard. Let me respond to a few.
>
> Your historic reference to Hitler is factually inaccurate. The Hit-man was
> never elected. He was appointed to the chancellorship of Germany when the
> Nazi vote was declining and class struggle was acute and rising. The
> Communist Party was large and active, the most consistent opponent of the
> Nazis. The bourgeoisie turned to fascism because the outbreak of
revolution
> was too likely for them to continue with parliamentary democracy.
>
> Hitler was able to consolidate his grip because the right-wing Social
> Democrats (Gerry Schroeder's direct political ancestors) caved in to the
> Nazis and broke ranks with the working class forces. They were labor union
> bureaucrats like the AFL-CIO bureaucracy that is so slavishly tied to the
> Democrats.
>
> What we need are firm and consistent political organizations that serve
the
> people, not the bourgeoisie. The Democrats have always impeded this kind
of
> organization. If the Republicans are the butcher, the Dems are the Judas
> goat that leads the people to the slaughter. In such a situation the first
> thing to do is to get people to stop following the Judas goat. If the goat
> is no longer effective then even the butcher is going to find his whole
act
> no longer works. In the case of the NJ Gov election, McGreevey doesn't
want
> voters to have a choice to his left. But neither does Schundler! That's
> where someone like Coleman can play a part.
>
> We need the same things today that the people have always needed: a
genuine
> revolutionary party of the working class, that is, a Communist Party that
> can alone give real and consistent leadership against the bourgeoisie;
and,
> a broad united-front electoral and "legal" party (legality is always a
very
> dodgy thing under capitalism) to break the grip of  Repubocrats. But you
are
> right on the main point: we need a revolution. This can only be brought
> about by the working class. That is why we need the Communist Party (i.e.,
a
> real one.)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
> To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>;
> <siddharta5@...>; <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>; <amirib@...>;
> <MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>; <jmodibo@...>;
> <Paul4sure@...>
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:12 PM
> Subject: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard,
> Fascists
>
>
> > I hope these are my last mumblings on this subject.
> >
> > IF nothing else, candidates such as Nader and Coleman help to bring up
> > issues most critical to the well-being of the community. When their
> message
> > reaches the public, it serves to hold the leading contenders' feet to
the
> > fire.
> > The major point of dispute is whether a 3rd party candidate will cause
> [has
> > caused] the loss of the least crappy of the two leading contenders.
> > If we all keep voting for Gores and McGreevys, election after election,
> how
> > does it suddenly become possible for a true progressive to ever win --
the
> > public will not have heard of that person before?!
> >
> > In the absence of a Hitler-like main contender, a rational path could be
> > to put adequate resources into supporting progressive Assembly,
> > Senate and Council candidates -- who control legislation, and take the
> > Chinese long view of the Governorship by continuing to put up worthy
> > candidates for that office, even tho it may allow the greater of 2 evils
> to
> > win. If the PEOPLE don't get the message of their bad decision in short
> > order, then the people are the problem. Meanwhile the 3rd party
candidate
> > and party should keep up the promotion of their better ideas BETWEEN
> > elections to keep the education of the public rolling and to prime the
> > public awareness for the next election.
> >
> > On the national scene, either Nader and the Green Party have failed to
TRY
> > do this since the Supreme Court COUP, or the masses have not gotten the
> > Green Party's continuing message
> > for other reasons [lack of GP funds, ostracized from public media
outlets,
> > ...]
> >
> > If it's a Hitler vs a Crap in a close race next time, it would be
suicide
> to
> > vote for 3rd, 4th, 5th party candidates. Germany learned and taught us
> that
> > back in the late 1920's and 1930's. Short of that kind of choice, a
worthy
> > 3rd party candidate exposes and infects the general populace with a
better
> > TRUTH, exposes lies, and proposes plans for a better way.
> >
> > In the absence of reasonably detailed plans [including sources of
funding
> > for the plan] presented to support the progressive program planks, the
> > public should assume the candidate is so full of crap that it's
> overflowing
> > as political blather, sentimental rather than hard-headed sensible..
> >
> > In a democracy I don't see a better, less painful way to get the job
done
> > after decades of political neglect BY THE VOTING AGE PUBLIC. If we
> > externalize the problem onto rotten politicians, we compound the problem
> by
> > not owning it as OUR personal responsibility or lack thereof in being
> > participants in our own democratic government.
> >
> > We need a gahdam Revolution in what it means to be a citizen; maybe the
> > coming economic collapse will kick us all in the cortex and colon.
> >
> > I applaud and admire your continuing efforts to register, educate and
get
> > the vote out.
> > If I am not a complete slimeball, I'll join you on Sat and/or Sundays.
> > Regarding Leid's management techniques and Fascism as applied to
business,
> > 'If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and floats like a
duck,
> > and flies like a duck, and ducks the truth like a duck, and looks like
> duck,
> > is it really a ventriliquising goose, or is it PERHAPS a duck?'
> >
> > Up justice.
> >
> > Horrid
> >
> > P.S. How can we believe the latest poll of 395 people as indicating
> McGreevy
> > has a very large lead over Schundler, when we don't know whether the
> > demographics of the 395 polled match the demographics of the millions of
> > expected-to-vote citizens. I admit my blatant ignorance of statistics,
but
> > how can they calculate a margin of error without knowing the true
outcome
> of
> > the election against which to compare their statistical sample of 395?
> What
> > are all of the assumptions made in this report? Are we being lulled into
> > complacency like Dewey was in his race against Truman?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>; <siddharta5@...>;
> > <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> > Cc: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>;
> > <amirib@...>; <MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>;
> > <jmodibo@...>; <Paul4sure@...>
> > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:45 PM
> > Subject: [poprogress] Response to Fred & Howard Re: Rothenberg's
analysis
> of
> > the fascist rule and WBAI
> >
> >
> > > (I WISH TO THANK FRED N.(NJFRIENDS) & HOWARD (P.O.P.) FOR RESPONDING
TO
> MY
> > > POST RE: ROTHENBERG'S ADDRESS OF SITUATION AT WBAI.  IT'S ENCOURAGING
> THAT
> > > NOT EVERYONE THINKS THIS DEBATE ALSO INVOLVING THE 2000 NATIONAL
> ELECTIONS
> > > IS EITHER FINISHED, FUTILE, OR SIMPLY A THREAT TO THEIR ASPIRATIONS.
> I'VE
> > > DONE MY BEST TO RESPOND TO BOTH ARGUMENTS, BY WAY OF FRED'S
LETTER--AND
> TO
> > > HOWARD I WOULD ONLY ADD THAT WHILE YOUR LETTER WAS VERY ARTICULATE AND
> > > MOVINGLY PASSIONATE, YOU NEGLECTED SOME OF THE MOST CRITICAL ISSUES I
> > > RAISED.  MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS BELOW -MATTHEW SMITH, UNITY &
STRUGGLE)
> > >
> > >
> > > Fred N. wrote:
> > > Friends,This post was sent to the friends of wbai - NJ list which is
not
> a
> > > discussionboard but anannouncement board which I moderate.I will not
> post
> > it
> > > but will respond below as interspersed in CAPS:Fred N. (NJ)-
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...> wrote:>>
This
> > is
> > > an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's> support
> of
> > > Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush &> the
> right
> > > stole the 2001 election.
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply: There has never been an endorsement of Ralph Nader by
WBAI
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- WHILE THERE ARE, NO WERE, MANY DIVERSE VOICES AT
> WBAI,
> > > THERE WAS CLEARLY A DOMINANT TREND AMONGST THE NOW 'BANNED AND FIRED'
> WHO
> > > WERE THE MOST ARDENT SUPPORTERS OF NADER, AND THERE IS ALOT OF OVERLAP
> IN
> > > TERMS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE BASE OF SUPPORTERS.
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- Interesting, but one of David> Rothenburg's main
> > > errors (similar to what we've heard from> WBAI/naderites/greens since
> the
> > > X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead with> Hitler (Lead is a
bullying
> > > traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, but> not a fascist & to
call
> > her
> > > a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 &> Co.--though WBAI coup is
> > > certainly part of erotion of democracy in US),> According to
Rothenberg,
> > the
> > > #1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, while> Bush2/Republican/REAL
> > > FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of proper> historic
> analysis)
> > > even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that WBAI's> support of
> > Nader
> > > helped throw the election to B2!!
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply:  I did not listen to David Rothenberg's talk, where, by
> the
> > > way, heannounces that he maynever return because he is likely to be
> fired
> > > for saying what he was saying.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- SINCE THIS IS OUR FIRST EXCHANGE, LET ME REITERATE
UP
> > > FRONT MY UNBENDING, BUT CRITICAL, SUPPORT FOR THE EXILE COMMUNITY AT
> WBAI.
> > > WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING THERE IS A TRAVESTY AND AN ASSAULT ON
DEMOCRACY,
> > AS
> > > WBAI HAS BEEN A GREAT AND NECESSARY PUBLIC INSTITUTION.  & TO BE SURE,
I
> > > HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT I CAN TO SHOW THAT SUPPORT, (DISPENSING
> INFORMATION,
> > > ATTENDING RALLIES, MAKING PHONE CALLS), THOUGH IT NEVER FEELS LIKE
> ENOUGH
> > > WHEN EVERY WEEK ANOTHER IMPORTANT VOICE IS SILENCED....)
> > >
> > > Fred's: Ido agree withDavid on the point that the methods used by
Utrice
> > > Leid are common to thefascists (suppression ofspeech,
> intimidation/public
> > > humiliation, false claims of theft/violence andconstant
personalattacks.
>
> > U.
> > > Leid also installed an 8 camera audio-video serveillance
systemcomplete
> > > withcard-key entry system which makes Rykers Island look low tech.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(I HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH DRAWING COMPARISONS TO THE
METHODS
> > USED
> > > TO LOCK OUT THE DISSENTING VOICES WITH 'AUTHORITARIAN' OR
'TOTALITARIAN'
> > > METHODS ASSOCIATED WITH A CORPORATE TAKE-OVER, BUT 'FASCISM' HAS A
VERY
> > > SPECIFIC MEANING...MY ARGUEMENT WAS IS THAT UTRICE LEID HERSELF HAS
BEEN
> > > LABELED A 'FASCIST' WITH THE SAME SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION THAT
CHIDED
> > > SOME OF US DURING THE ELECTION FOR POINTING TO THE DANGER OF THE
> > BUSH2CREW,
> > > THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT & CORPORATE FASCISTS (MORE ON THAT BELOW)
> > >
> > > Fred's: I also agreethat the DemocraticParty has betrayed the American
> > > working class and is now dominated by people whoare doing thebidding
of
> > very
> > > large corporations and global finance interests.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- ONLY SOME KIND OF CONFUSION THAT THE DEM'S EVER
> SERVED
> > > THE INTEREST OF THE AMREICAN W.C. WOULD LEAD ANYONE TO THINK THAT THEY
> > HAVE
> > > SINCE BETRAYED THEM.  THE DEM. PARTY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BOURGEOIS
PARTY,
> > AND
> > > HAS ALWAYS BEEN DOMINATED BY PEOPLE DOING BIDDING OF LARGE
CORPORATIONS.
> > > EVEN ROOSEVELT, WHO "SAVED CAPITIALISM FROM THE CAPITALISTS".  OUR
> > ARGUMENT
> > > HERE, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE ROOSEVELT THAN HITLER.
THE
> > > GREENS HELPED BRING US WHO?....WHAT DID ROTHENBURG SAY ABOUT SWINGING
> THE
> > > VOTE TO BUSH, AND WHY WERE THE REPUBLICANS RUNNING NADER ADS DURING
THE
> > > CAMPAIGN?
> > >
> > > Fred's: The fact that Amy Goodman reported on Nader does not mean that
> > WBAI
> > > was a station controlled by the Greens.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(IT WAS A DOMINANT TREND)
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- There's a deep imbalance> of perspective that
> needs
> > to
> > > be corrected here in terms of the Green Party> histortic role in 2001,
> > > causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and Rep's> as no worse.
> > > (Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green voting> base!!
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply:  The Dems are not a threat to the Greens, the Greens did
> not
> > > defeat Al Gore.  Al Gore and the DNC and massive corporate-sponsored
> > > campaigning turned off voters and defeated Al Gore.  Half of all
> registers
> > > don't vote.  Half a billion dollars worth of corporatecontributions
did
> > not
> > > change that.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(HOLY MACKERAL! AL GORE WON! THIS IS WHAT I MEAN WHEN I
SAY
> > THE
> > > GREENS AS WELL AS MUCH OF THE, DARE I SAY, PETIT-BOURG 'LEFT', DE
FACTO,
> > > GIVE BUSH2 & THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT A FREE PASS.  RECALL THAT WHEN THE
> > > ELECTION WAS BEING STOLEN IN FLORIDA & BY D.C.'S OBSCENE COURT, NOT
FROM
> > > GORE, MIND YOU, BUT FROM THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO DID VOTE, THE
NADER
> > > SUPPORTERS WENT WHERE?  BACK TO SEATTLE FOR "GLOBALIZATION PROTEST,
PART
> > > II"- UNFORTUNATELY, NADER AND THE GREENS ALLOWED THEIR, MORE-OR-LESS
> WELL
> > > INTENDED, MAINLY WHITE & MIDDLE-CLASS, CONSTITUENCY BELIEVE THAT IT
WAS
> > > BETTER TO *PROTEST* GLOBAL IMPERIALISM THAN TO *SEIZE POWER* FROM ITS
> MOST
> > > JINGOISTIC, BACKWARD,& REACTIONARY REPRESENTATIVES (ie: the
> f-f-FASCISTS)
> > AS
> > > THEY WERE BUSY UNDERMINING THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL VOTE, TRAMPLING ON
> THE
> > > VOTER RIGHTS ACT OF 1964, AND THROWING THE 13TH, 14TH, & 15TH
> AMMENDMENTS
> > > OUT THE SCARY WINDOW--ALL OF WHICH, OF COURSE, AFFECT THE POOREST AND
> > > OPPRESSED NATIONALISTIES MOST AND FIRST.
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, suburban
> > Montclair
> > > was there, but> not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., let
alone
> > the
> > > working class> from any town)  This same opportunism causes the P.B.,
> esp.
> > > on the left, to> think that only when it comes for THEM, then it's
> worthy
> > of
> > > the name> fascism!
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply:  Actually, Ralph Nader did have some very large popular
> > > rallies around the country that were not covered by the mass medias.
> It's
> > a
> > > bitch to try to be prez without money and free publicity from the
> > corporate
> > > medias.  WBAI was doing what it's mission states: air the voices of
> > dissent
> > > that are not presented anywhere else.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(AS WBAI SHOULD, NO DOUBT...BUT THE PROBLEM AGAIN WITH THE
> > GREEN
> > > PARTY STRATEGY IS THAT THEY HAVE WANTED THE HEAD WITHOUT BUILDING THE
> > BODY.
> > > WELL BEFORE NADER CAME STROLLING, LA-DI-DA, INTO THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN
> > SOME
> > > TIME LATE- WAY BACK DURING THE PRIMARY SEASON, "UNITY & STRUGGLE"
ISSUED
> > THE
> > > CALL TO FORM A 'LEFT-BLOC' UNITED FRONT TO "MARCH SEPERATELY, STRIKE
> > > TOGETHER" AGAINST THE FAR-RIGHT IN GERNERAL,  TO PUSH BRADLEY TO THE
> LEFT
> > IN
> > > OPPOSITION TO GORE, AND TO AIM SPECIFIC BLOWS AT, FOR INSTANCE, THE
> CLOSED
> > > BOURGEOIS DEBATE FORUM AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE (IMAGINE!).  BUT ALSO
> TO
> > > RUN CAMPAIGNS WHERE WE CAN WIN! (CONCRETELY: WE HAD A CITY COUNCIL
RACE
> IN
> > > NEW BRUNSWICK IN 2000 WHERE WE UNITED WITH GREENS ON A "PEOPLES'
> > DEMOCRACY"
> > > CAMPAIGN, & NOW WE ARE BACKING RAS BARAKA2002 FOR CITY COUNCIL IN
> NEWARK.)
> > > BUT LOOK! HERE COME THE NJGREENS AGAIN, UNCRITICALLY, THREATENING WITH
> THE
> > > SAME BLUNDER THAT BROUGHT US B2, NOW IN AN ABSOLUTELY UNWINABLE
> > GUBENETORIAL
> > > RACE IN NJ, DECLARING THAT THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
CENTRIST-PUPPET
> > > MCGREEVY AND FAR-RIGHT IDEOLOGUE SCHUNDLER, OR AT LEAST NOT ENOUGH FOR
> THE
> > > NJGREENS TO INSTEAD ENDORSE A LEFT-BLOC UNITED FRONT STRATEGY-THEIR
> > PROBLEM
> > > (WHICH IS NOW OUR PROBLEM) IS THAT THEY WANT TO GO IT ALONE, RATHER
THAN
> > > JOINING IN A UNITED FRONT TO RUN CAMPAIGNS  WHERE WE CAN WIN, AND YES,
> > > UNITING AGAINST THE WORSE EVIL IN THE SHORT-TERM.   (BUSH/SCHUNDLER)
> > > OPPORTUNISM IS ESSENTIALLY SACRIFICING THE LONG-TERM GOAL FOR THE
SHORT
> > > TERM.  THIS IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH I APPLY THE TERM TO THE GREEN
PARTY
> > > STRATEGY.
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- Yet, how many more times will we hear many of
the
> > same
> > > people say,> "It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real
> fascists)
> > > because it will> only strengthen the resisitance"Reply:  Someone said
> > that?
> > > Who? David Rothenberg?  Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar in> the
> > > 1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending Amy
> Goodman>
> > &
> > > Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to this mess.
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply:  What led to this mess is the Corporation for Public
> > > Broadcasting funding which allowed board members from large
corporations
> > to
> > > be named to the Pacifica Board and a Series of executives with
> connections
> > > with the Clinton administration to take over Pacifica and undertake
its
> > > destruction.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHERE THE DOMINANT TREND
> OF
> > > GREEN SUPPORT AT THE OLD WBAI AND THE GREEN PARTY ITSELF, IF NOT DE
JURY
> > > THEN DE FACTO, ESPOUSE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS A GREATER THREAT
TO
> > THEM
> > > THAN THE REPUBLICAN AND FAR-RIGHT.  THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE AN
> INTRIGUING
> > > CASE TO BE MADE THAT UTRICE LEID & CO. REPRESENT THE STRONG-ARM OF A
> > > DEMOCRATIC PARTY TAKE-OVER AND 'NPR'-ING OF WBAI (& WE ALL KNOW THAT
> > > CORPORATE 'UNDERWRITING' IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER) AGAIN, AS I SAID,
> ONLY
> > > THE CONFUSED NOTION THAT THE BOURGEOISIE'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY EVER
WORKED
> IN
> > > THE TRUE INTERESTS OF THE W.C. WOULD STIR UP THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS
> > INDIGNATION
> > > THAT FOLLOWS BETRAYAL.  BUT WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THIS TAKE-OVER OF
WBAI
> > DOES
> > > NOT EXIST IN ISOLATION FROM THE CORPORATE TAKE-OVER OF ALL SPHERES OF
> > PUBLIC
> > > LIFE & CULTURE?  HOW LONG HAS NPR BEEN RUNNIN LEXUS ADS AFTER ALL?
HOW
> > > ABOUT THE COOPTATION OF HIP-HOP?  JAZZ?  THE BLUES?  IF YOU READ AMIRI
> > > BARAKA'S RECENT SLAMMING OF THE ENSUING COOPTATION OF SLAM-POETRY,
> YOU'LL
> > > SEE THE SAME TREND.  THIS IS AS OLD AS CONSTANTINE'S "CONVERSION" TO
> > > CHRISTIANITY.  THE DIFFERENCE WITH WBAI IS THAT IT'S SUCH A VITAL
> > COMPONENT
> > > OF THE REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRATIC STRUGGLE AND LOSING IT AS A RESOURCE
IS
> > > STILL BIZARRELY UNTHINKABLE.  BUT SO WHAT IF WE CAN AGREE THAT THE
> > DEMOCRATS
> > > ARE THE IMMEDIATE ASSASSINES.  THIS DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT
> THAT
> > > WHILE IMPERIALISM IS TAKING OVER MORE AND MORE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS
(BTW,
> > MR.
> > > JERRY COLEMAN- SCHUNDLER WANTS TO PRIVATIZE LIBRARIES!!) THE **ENTIRE
> > > POLITICAL SPECTRUM** HAS SHIFTED RIGHT.  NOT JUST, SIMPLY, AND/OR ONLY
> THE
> > > DEMOCRATS, VIA NEW-DEM CLINTON, AS THE GREENS PROFESS WHEN THEY
SUGGEST
> > THE
> > > MORPHING OF THE TWO PARTIES!  THIS IS OBJECTIVE AND IRREFUTABLE, ONE
> WOULD
> > > THINK.
> > >
> > > Fred's: David Rothenberg knows.  Al Lewis knows.  Bob Lederer, Robert
> > > Knight, Juan Gonzales, Deepa Fernandes, Mimi Rosenberg, Verna Avery
> Brown,
> > > Mario Murillo, Ken Nash and Bernard White's Wake Up Call's crew know.
> The
> > > democratic party will not save us.  They are running the same national
> > > security state and prison/military industrial complex with the same
> > motives
> > > of fear, greed and hubris than their republican friends.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(YES, YES.  INOTHERWORDS, THEY ARE ALL IMERIALISTS.  LET'S
> > CALL
> > > IT WHAT IT IS.)
> > >
> > >
> > > Fred's: Wake up Matt,
> > >
> > > (PRESENTE!)
> > >
> > > WBAI and Pacifica were the ALTERNATIVE RADIO.  After that, yes, the
> > fascist
> > > state will have silenced us and few Democrats will have said a thing.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(AGREED.  NOW LET US UNITE TO:RIP DOWN THE CONFEDERATE
> > > FLAG!ABOLISH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!BEAT BACK SCHUNDLER!SEIZE POWER
> > > EVERYWHERE THAT REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY CAN ADVANCE!AND, FINALLY,
> UTELIZE
> > > REASON & SCIENCE AS WELL AS PASSION....IN THE STRUGGLE FOR
> NITY  -MATTHEW
> > > SMITH)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
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> >
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> >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1990
Sender:"Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-29 22:18:05
Subject:Reply to Dave and Matt-- Rothenberg, WBAI, Fascism etc
Message:

It's a never-ending discussion I suppose.

First - to clarify what I said and intended.
I did not say or intend to give the impression that Hitler had been elected
to lead Germany. My point was that during bad economic times, dissension
among the multiple parties making up the majority in German politics, gave
opportunity and impetus to the Nazi Party to gain sufficient support of the
electorate, for Hitler to gain full empowerment thru support of financial
and industrial powers, and finally of the military. This is what I intended
in my statement,"If it's a Hitler vs a Crap in a close race next time [in
the U.S.A. or NJ, comment added] it would be suicide to vote for 3rd, 4th,
5th party candidates". That is, it's very dumb and deadly to vote in a
Hitler, by voting out [eroding the votes for] the lesser evil.

It was not the fear of outbreak of revolution that upset the
Financial-Industrial powers in Germany, but the inability of the political
center/left majority to define corrective policies that would allow the
wealthy F-I powers to survive during the depression. The Communist Party
growth and therefore threat of breakup of the F-I structures and
redistribution as "workers" institutions,  was another indicator of threat
to the F-I's continuing existence. Hitler who supported their continuance,
they believed was their better bet. The military also preferred Hitler for
various reasons.

This is a potential problem for a democracy represented by a multiplicity of
parties inherent in a proportional representation system. In Germany, in bad
economic times, this led to the rise of Hitler -- despite the clear warnings
of his mindset given in many speeches and his book Mein Kampf [My Struggle].
In the USA, in supposedly very good economic times, we have the rise of the
mediocre [at best] via blatant thievery, over the morally vacuous,
politically spineless incumbent party.

In the case of the Democrapic Party it was not internal dissension that
dissolved their margin over the Repukeagains and sank them, it was the
ABSENCE of principled ethical struggle that led to the erosion/abandonment
of the earlier 'progressive' policies that accepted [if not initiated]
unionization; rejection of sweatshop workhours and conditions; promotion of
OSHA and environmental standards; humane child labor laws; Social Security;
Welfare supports, Medicare and Medicaid, ...    A significant portion of the
usual Democratic Party supporters were not fooled. They sat out the election
in disgust and despair, and some voted for Nader.

The 'Bourgeoisie are not all bad. The badness is in the free rein given to
GREED -- unfair labor, political practices, unfair financial dealings etc.
Capital formation need not be harmful. The key is to maintain justice.
Prevention of monopolies was a step in that fairness direction.

To maintain justice, to prevent  greedy elitism we must have a VAST increase
in knowledgeable citizen participation in all levels of government and
social agencies. In a complex society we need appropriate public concern,
public competence, and public acceptance of their citizenship
responsibilities via participation.

The alternative to the never-ending hard work of education and development
of decent opportunities for all , is Partyism, the rise of organized
activists who are certain they know what is best for all -- themselves
first, when they achieve power.

Matt -- You misconstrued my statement regarding "If the PEOPLE don't get the
message ..."  In the absence of a Hitler among the 2 frontrunners my stated
intention in the paragraph preceding my "If the People .." statement was the
total OPPOSITE of what you took it to be -- unless of course you consider
Bush and the Repukeagains as Nazis. They may be showing some fascistic
tendencies [stealing elections like Kennedy tried/did? vs Nixon, executing
innocents like Clinton/Gore promoted in their death penalty positions,
murderous international expansionism like all of our governments starting at
least with Eisenhower, ...] but not unusual for the USA, and certainly
stoppable if enough of the populace cares enough.

Let's all keep at it for a better, more just world for all.

Howard

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>;
<siddharta5@...>; <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>; <amirib@...>;
<MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>; <jmodibo@...>;
<Paul4sure@...>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard,
Fascists


> You bring up a lot of points, Howard. Let me respond to a few.
>
> Your historic reference to Hitler is factually inaccurate. The Hit-man was
> never elected. He was appointed to the chancellorship of Germany when the
> Nazi vote was declining and class struggle was acute and rising. The
> Communist Party was large and active, the most consistent opponent of the
> Nazis. The bourgeoisie turned to fascism because the outbreak of
revolution
> was too likely for them to continue with parliamentary democracy.
>
> Hitler was able to consolidate his grip because the right-wing Social
> Democrats (Gerry Schroeder's direct political ancestors) caved in to the
> Nazis and broke ranks with the working class forces. They were labor union
> bureaucrats like the AFL-CIO bureaucracy that is so slavishly tied to the
> Democrats.
>
> What we need are firm and consistent political organizations that serve
the
> people, not the bourgeoisie. The Democrats have always impeded this kind
of
> organization. If the Republicans are the butcher, the Dems are the Judas
> goat that leads the people to the slaughter. In such a situation the first
> thing to do is to get people to stop following the Judas goat. If the goat
> is no longer effective then even the butcher is going to find his whole
act
> no longer works. In the case of the NJ Gov election, McGreevey doesn't
want
> voters to have a choice to his left. But neither does Schundler! That's
> where someone like Coleman can play a part.
>
> We need the same things today that the people have always needed: a
genuine
> revolutionary party of the working class, that is, a Communist Party that
> can alone give real and consistent leadership against the bourgeoisie;
and,
> a broad united-front electoral and "legal" party (legality is always a
very
> dodgy thing under capitalism) to break the grip of  Repubocrats. But you
are
> right on the main point: we need a revolution. This can only be brought
> about by the working class. That is why we need the Communist Party (i.e.,
a
> real one.)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
> To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>;
> <siddharta5@...>; <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>; <amirib@...>;
> <MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>; <jmodibo@...>;
> <Paul4sure@...>
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:12 PM
> Subject: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard,
> Fascists
>
>
> > I hope these are my last mumblings on this subject.
> >
> > IF nothing else, candidates such as Nader and Coleman help to bring up
> > issues most critical to the well-being of the community. When their
> message
> > reaches the public, it serves to hold the leading contenders' feet to
the
> > fire.
> > The major point of dispute is whether a 3rd party candidate will cause
> [has
> > caused] the loss of the least crappy of the two leading contenders.
> > If we all keep voting for Gores and McGreevys, election after election,
> how
> > does it suddenly become possible for a true progressive to ever win --
the
> > public will not have heard of that person before?!
> >
> > In the absence of a Hitler-like main contender, a rational path could be
> > to put adequate resources into supporting progressive Assembly,
> > Senate and Council candidates -- who control legislation, and take the
> > Chinese long view of the Governorship by continuing to put up worthy
> > candidates for that office, even tho it may allow the greater of 2 evils
> to
> > win. If the PEOPLE don't get the message of their bad decision in short
> > order, then the people are the problem. Meanwhile the 3rd party
candidate
> > and party should keep up the promotion of their better ideas BETWEEN
> > elections to keep the education of the public rolling and to prime the
> > public awareness for the next election.
> >
> > On the national scene, either Nader and the Green Party have failed to
TRY
> > do this since the Supreme Court COUP, or the masses have not gotten the
> > Green Party's continuing message
> > for other reasons [lack of GP funds, ostracized from public media
outlets,
> > ...]
> >
> > If it's a Hitler vs a Crap in a close race next time, it would be
suicide
> to
> > vote for 3rd, 4th, 5th party candidates. Germany learned and taught us
> that
> > back in the late 1920's and 1930's. Short of that kind of choice, a
worthy
> > 3rd party candidate exposes and infects the general populace with a
better
> > TRUTH, exposes lies, and proposes plans for a better way.
> >
> > In the absence of reasonably detailed plans [including sources of
funding
> > for the plan] presented to support the progressive program planks, the
> > public should assume the candidate is so full of crap that it's
> overflowing
> > as political blather, sentimental rather than hard-headed sensible..
> >
> > In a democracy I don't see a better, less painful way to get the job
done
> > after decades of political neglect BY THE VOTING AGE PUBLIC. If we
> > externalize the problem onto rotten politicians, we compound the problem
> by
> > not owning it as OUR personal responsibility or lack thereof in being
> > participants in our own democratic government.
> >
> > We need a gahdam Revolution in what it means to be a citizen; maybe the
> > coming economic collapse will kick us all in the cortex and colon.
> >
> > I applaud and admire your continuing efforts to register, educate and
get
> > the vote out.
> > If I am not a complete slimeball, I'll join you on Sat and/or Sundays.
> > Regarding Leid's management techniques and Fascism as applied to
business,
> > 'If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and floats like a
duck,
> > and flies like a duck, and ducks the truth like a duck, and looks like
> duck,
> > is it really a ventriliquising goose, or is it PERHAPS a duck?'
> >
> > Up justice.
> >
> > Horrid
> >
> > P.S. How can we believe the latest poll of 395 people as indicating
> McGreevy
> > has a very large lead over Schundler, when we don't know whether the
> > demographics of the 395 polled match the demographics of the millions of
> > expected-to-vote citizens. I admit my blatant ignorance of statistics,
but
> > how can they calculate a margin of error without knowing the true
outcome
> of
> > the election against which to compare their statistical sample of 395?
> What
> > are all of the assumptions made in this report? Are we being lulled into
> > complacency like Dewey was in his race against Truman?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>; <siddharta5@...>;
> > <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> > Cc: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>;
> > <amirib@...>; <MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>;
> > <jmodibo@...>; <Paul4sure@...>
> > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:45 PM
> > Subject: [poprogress] Response to Fred & Howard Re: Rothenberg's
analysis
> of
> > the fascist rule and WBAI
> >
> >
> > > (I WISH TO THANK FRED N.(NJFRIENDS) & HOWARD (P.O.P.) FOR RESPONDING
TO
> MY
> > > POST RE: ROTHENBERG'S ADDRESS OF SITUATION AT WBAI.  IT'S ENCOURAGING
> THAT
> > > NOT EVERYONE THINKS THIS DEBATE ALSO INVOLVING THE 2000 NATIONAL
> ELECTIONS
> > > IS EITHER FINISHED, FUTILE, OR SIMPLY A THREAT TO THEIR ASPIRATIONS.
> I'VE
> > > DONE MY BEST TO RESPOND TO BOTH ARGUMENTS, BY WAY OF FRED'S
LETTER--AND
> TO
> > > HOWARD I WOULD ONLY ADD THAT WHILE YOUR LETTER WAS VERY ARTICULATE AND
> > > MOVINGLY PASSIONATE, YOU NEGLECTED SOME OF THE MOST CRITICAL ISSUES I
> > > RAISED.  MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS BELOW -MATTHEW SMITH, UNITY &
STRUGGLE)
> > >
> > >
> > > Fred N. wrote:
> > > Friends,This post was sent to the friends of wbai - NJ list which is
not
> a
> > > discussionboard but anannouncement board which I moderate.I will not
> post
> > it
> > > but will respond below as interspersed in CAPS:Fred N. (NJ)-
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...> wrote:>>
This
> > is
> > > an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's> support
> of
> > > Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush &> the
> right
> > > stole the 2001 election.
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply: There has never been an endorsement of Ralph Nader by
WBAI
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- WHILE THERE ARE, NO WERE, MANY DIVERSE VOICES AT
> WBAI,
> > > THERE WAS CLEARLY A DOMINANT TREND AMONGST THE NOW 'BANNED AND FIRED'
> WHO
> > > WERE THE MOST ARDENT SUPPORTERS OF NADER, AND THERE IS ALOT OF OVERLAP
> IN
> > > TERMS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE BASE OF SUPPORTERS.
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- Interesting, but one of David> Rothenburg's main
> > > errors (similar to what we've heard from> WBAI/naderites/greens since
> the
> > > X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead with> Hitler (Lead is a
bullying
> > > traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, but> not a fascist & to
call
> > her
> > > a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 &> Co.--though WBAI coup is
> > > certainly part of erotion of democracy in US),> According to
Rothenberg,
> > the
> > > #1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, while> Bush2/Republican/REAL
> > > FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of proper> historic
> analysis)
> > > even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that WBAI's> support of
> > Nader
> > > helped throw the election to B2!!
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply:  I did not listen to David Rothenberg's talk, where, by
> the
> > > way, heannounces that he maynever return because he is likely to be
> fired
> > > for saying what he was saying.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- SINCE THIS IS OUR FIRST EXCHANGE, LET ME REITERATE
UP
> > > FRONT MY UNBENDING, BUT CRITICAL, SUPPORT FOR THE EXILE COMMUNITY AT
> WBAI.
> > > WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING THERE IS A TRAVESTY AND AN ASSAULT ON
DEMOCRACY,
> > AS
> > > WBAI HAS BEEN A GREAT AND NECESSARY PUBLIC INSTITUTION.  & TO BE SURE,
I
> > > HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT I CAN TO SHOW THAT SUPPORT, (DISPENSING
> INFORMATION,
> > > ATTENDING RALLIES, MAKING PHONE CALLS), THOUGH IT NEVER FEELS LIKE
> ENOUGH
> > > WHEN EVERY WEEK ANOTHER IMPORTANT VOICE IS SILENCED....)
> > >
> > > Fred's: Ido agree withDavid on the point that the methods used by
Utrice
> > > Leid are common to thefascists (suppression ofspeech,
> intimidation/public
> > > humiliation, false claims of theft/violence andconstant
personalattacks.
>
> > U.
> > > Leid also installed an 8 camera audio-video serveillance
systemcomplete
> > > withcard-key entry system which makes Rykers Island look low tech.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(I HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH DRAWING COMPARISONS TO THE
METHODS
> > USED
> > > TO LOCK OUT THE DISSENTING VOICES WITH 'AUTHORITARIAN' OR
'TOTALITARIAN'
> > > METHODS ASSOCIATED WITH A CORPORATE TAKE-OVER, BUT 'FASCISM' HAS A
VERY
> > > SPECIFIC MEANING...MY ARGUEMENT WAS IS THAT UTRICE LEID HERSELF HAS
BEEN
> > > LABELED A 'FASCIST' WITH THE SAME SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION THAT
CHIDED
> > > SOME OF US DURING THE ELECTION FOR POINTING TO THE DANGER OF THE
> > BUSH2CREW,
> > > THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT & CORPORATE FASCISTS (MORE ON THAT BELOW)
> > >
> > > Fred's: I also agreethat the DemocraticParty has betrayed the American
> > > working class and is now dominated by people whoare doing thebidding
of
> > very
> > > large corporations and global finance interests.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- ONLY SOME KIND OF CONFUSION THAT THE DEM'S EVER
> SERVED
> > > THE INTEREST OF THE AMREICAN W.C. WOULD LEAD ANYONE TO THINK THAT THEY
> > HAVE
> > > SINCE BETRAYED THEM.  THE DEM. PARTY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BOURGEOIS
PARTY,
> > AND
> > > HAS ALWAYS BEEN DOMINATED BY PEOPLE DOING BIDDING OF LARGE
CORPORATIONS.
> > > EVEN ROOSEVELT, WHO "SAVED CAPITIALISM FROM THE CAPITALISTS".  OUR
> > ARGUMENT
> > > HERE, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE ROOSEVELT THAN HITLER.
THE
> > > GREENS HELPED BRING US WHO?....WHAT DID ROTHENBURG SAY ABOUT SWINGING
> THE
> > > VOTE TO BUSH, AND WHY WERE THE REPUBLICANS RUNNING NADER ADS DURING
THE
> > > CAMPAIGN?
> > >
> > > Fred's: The fact that Amy Goodman reported on Nader does not mean that
> > WBAI
> > > was a station controlled by the Greens.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(IT WAS A DOMINANT TREND)
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- There's a deep imbalance> of perspective that
> needs
> > to
> > > be corrected here in terms of the Green Party> histortic role in 2001,
> > > causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and Rep's> as no worse.
> > > (Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green voting> base!!
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply:  The Dems are not a threat to the Greens, the Greens did
> not
> > > defeat Al Gore.  Al Gore and the DNC and massive corporate-sponsored
> > > campaigning turned off voters and defeated Al Gore.  Half of all
> registers
> > > don't vote.  Half a billion dollars worth of corporatecontributions
did
> > not
> > > change that.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(HOLY MACKERAL! AL GORE WON! THIS IS WHAT I MEAN WHEN I
SAY
> > THE
> > > GREENS AS WELL AS MUCH OF THE, DARE I SAY, PETIT-BOURG 'LEFT', DE
FACTO,
> > > GIVE BUSH2 & THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT A FREE PASS.  RECALL THAT WHEN THE
> > > ELECTION WAS BEING STOLEN IN FLORIDA & BY D.C.'S OBSCENE COURT, NOT
FROM
> > > GORE, MIND YOU, BUT FROM THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO DID VOTE, THE
NADER
> > > SUPPORTERS WENT WHERE?  BACK TO SEATTLE FOR "GLOBALIZATION PROTEST,
PART
> > > II"- UNFORTUNATELY, NADER AND THE GREENS ALLOWED THEIR, MORE-OR-LESS
> WELL
> > > INTENDED, MAINLY WHITE & MIDDLE-CLASS, CONSTITUENCY BELIEVE THAT IT
WAS
> > > BETTER TO *PROTEST* GLOBAL IMPERIALISM THAN TO *SEIZE POWER* FROM ITS
> MOST
> > > JINGOISTIC, BACKWARD,& REACTIONARY REPRESENTATIVES (ie: the
> f-f-FASCISTS)
> > AS
> > > THEY WERE BUSY UNDERMINING THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL VOTE, TRAMPLING ON
> THE
> > > VOTER RIGHTS ACT OF 1964, AND THROWING THE 13TH, 14TH, & 15TH
> AMMENDMENTS
> > > OUT THE SCARY WINDOW--ALL OF WHICH, OF COURSE, AFFECT THE POOREST AND
> > > OPPRESSED NATIONALISTIES MOST AND FIRST.
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, suburban
> > Montclair
> > > was there, but> not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., let
alone
> > the
> > > working class> from any town)  This same opportunism causes the P.B.,
> esp.
> > > on the left, to> think that only when it comes for THEM, then it's
> worthy
> > of
> > > the name> fascism!
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply:  Actually, Ralph Nader did have some very large popular
> > > rallies around the country that were not covered by the mass medias.
> It's
> > a
> > > bitch to try to be prez without money and free publicity from the
> > corporate
> > > medias.  WBAI was doing what it's mission states: air the voices of
> > dissent
> > > that are not presented anywhere else.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(AS WBAI SHOULD, NO DOUBT...BUT THE PROBLEM AGAIN WITH THE
> > GREEN
> > > PARTY STRATEGY IS THAT THEY HAVE WANTED THE HEAD WITHOUT BUILDING THE
> > BODY.
> > > WELL BEFORE NADER CAME STROLLING, LA-DI-DA, INTO THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN
> > SOME
> > > TIME LATE- WAY BACK DURING THE PRIMARY SEASON, "UNITY & STRUGGLE"
ISSUED
> > THE
> > > CALL TO FORM A 'LEFT-BLOC' UNITED FRONT TO "MARCH SEPERATELY, STRIKE
> > > TOGETHER" AGAINST THE FAR-RIGHT IN GERNERAL,  TO PUSH BRADLEY TO THE
> LEFT
> > IN
> > > OPPOSITION TO GORE, AND TO AIM SPECIFIC BLOWS AT, FOR INSTANCE, THE
> CLOSED
> > > BOURGEOIS DEBATE FORUM AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE (IMAGINE!).  BUT ALSO
> TO
> > > RUN CAMPAIGNS WHERE WE CAN WIN! (CONCRETELY: WE HAD A CITY COUNCIL
RACE
> IN
> > > NEW BRUNSWICK IN 2000 WHERE WE UNITED WITH GREENS ON A "PEOPLES'
> > DEMOCRACY"
> > > CAMPAIGN, & NOW WE ARE BACKING RAS BARAKA2002 FOR CITY COUNCIL IN
> NEWARK.)
> > > BUT LOOK! HERE COME THE NJGREENS AGAIN, UNCRITICALLY, THREATENING WITH
> THE
> > > SAME BLUNDER THAT BROUGHT US B2, NOW IN AN ABSOLUTELY UNWINABLE
> > GUBENETORIAL
> > > RACE IN NJ, DECLARING THAT THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
CENTRIST-PUPPET
> > > MCGREEVY AND FAR-RIGHT IDEOLOGUE SCHUNDLER, OR AT LEAST NOT ENOUGH FOR
> THE
> > > NJGREENS TO INSTEAD ENDORSE A LEFT-BLOC UNITED FRONT STRATEGY-THEIR
> > PROBLEM
> > > (WHICH IS NOW OUR PROBLEM) IS THAT THEY WANT TO GO IT ALONE, RATHER
THAN
> > > JOINING IN A UNITED FRONT TO RUN CAMPAIGNS  WHERE WE CAN WIN, AND YES,
> > > UNITING AGAINST THE WORSE EVIL IN THE SHORT-TERM.   (BUSH/SCHUNDLER)
> > > OPPORTUNISM IS ESSENTIALLY SACRIFICING THE LONG-TERM GOAL FOR THE
SHORT
> > > TERM.  THIS IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH I APPLY THE TERM TO THE GREEN
PARTY
> > > STRATEGY.
> > >
> > >
> > > -- original message-- Yet, how many more times will we hear many of
the
> > same
> > > people say,> "It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real
> fascists)
> > > because it will> only strengthen the resisitance"Reply:  Someone said
> > that?
> > > Who? David Rothenberg?  Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar in> the
> > > 1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending Amy
> Goodman>
> > &
> > > Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to this mess.
> > >
> > > Fred's Reply:  What led to this mess is the Corporation for Public
> > > Broadcasting funding which allowed board members from large
corporations
> > to
> > > be named to the Pacifica Board and a Series of executives with
> connections
> > > with the Clinton administration to take over Pacifica and undertake
its
> > > destruction.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHERE THE DOMINANT TREND
> OF
> > > GREEN SUPPORT AT THE OLD WBAI AND THE GREEN PARTY ITSELF, IF NOT DE
JURY
> > > THEN DE FACTO, ESPOUSE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS A GREATER THREAT
TO
> > THEM
> > > THAN THE REPUBLICAN AND FAR-RIGHT.  THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE AN
> INTRIGUING
> > > CASE TO BE MADE THAT UTRICE LEID & CO. REPRESENT THE STRONG-ARM OF A
> > > DEMOCRATIC PARTY TAKE-OVER AND 'NPR'-ING OF WBAI (& WE ALL KNOW THAT
> > > CORPORATE 'UNDERWRITING' IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER) AGAIN, AS I SAID,
> ONLY
> > > THE CONFUSED NOTION THAT THE BOURGEOISIE'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY EVER
WORKED
> IN
> > > THE TRUE INTERESTS OF THE W.C. WOULD STIR UP THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS
> > INDIGNATION
> > > THAT FOLLOWS BETRAYAL.  BUT WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THIS TAKE-OVER OF
WBAI
> > DOES
> > > NOT EXIST IN ISOLATION FROM THE CORPORATE TAKE-OVER OF ALL SPHERES OF
> > PUBLIC
> > > LIFE & CULTURE?  HOW LONG HAS NPR BEEN RUNNIN LEXUS ADS AFTER ALL?
HOW
> > > ABOUT THE COOPTATION OF HIP-HOP?  JAZZ?  THE BLUES?  IF YOU READ AMIRI
> > > BARAKA'S RECENT SLAMMING OF THE ENSUING COOPTATION OF SLAM-POETRY,
> YOU'LL
> > > SEE THE SAME TREND.  THIS IS AS OLD AS CONSTANTINE'S "CONVERSION" TO
> > > CHRISTIANITY.  THE DIFFERENCE WITH WBAI IS THAT IT'S SUCH A VITAL
> > COMPONENT
> > > OF THE REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRATIC STRUGGLE AND LOSING IT AS A RESOURCE
IS
> > > STILL BIZARRELY UNTHINKABLE.  BUT SO WHAT IF WE CAN AGREE THAT THE
> > DEMOCRATS
> > > ARE THE IMMEDIATE ASSASSINES.  THIS DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT
> THAT
> > > WHILE IMPERIALISM IS TAKING OVER MORE AND MORE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS
(BTW,
> > MR.
> > > JERRY COLEMAN- SCHUNDLER WANTS TO PRIVATIZE LIBRARIES!!) THE **ENTIRE
> > > POLITICAL SPECTRUM** HAS SHIFTED RIGHT.  NOT JUST, SIMPLY, AND/OR ONLY
> THE
> > > DEMOCRATS, VIA NEW-DEM CLINTON, AS THE GREENS PROFESS WHEN THEY
SUGGEST
> > THE
> > > MORPHING OF THE TWO PARTIES!  THIS IS OBJECTIVE AND IRREFUTABLE, ONE
> WOULD
> > > THINK.
> > >
> > > Fred's: David Rothenberg knows.  Al Lewis knows.  Bob Lederer, Robert
> > > Knight, Juan Gonzales, Deepa Fernandes, Mimi Rosenberg, Verna Avery
> Brown,
> > > Mario Murillo, Ken Nash and Bernard White's Wake Up Call's crew know.
> The
> > > democratic party will not save us.  They are running the same national
> > > security state and prison/military industrial complex with the same
> > motives
> > > of fear, greed and hubris than their republican friends.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(YES, YES.  INOTHERWORDS, THEY ARE ALL IMERIALISTS.  LET'S
> > CALL
> > > IT WHAT IT IS.)
> > >
> > >
> > > Fred's: Wake up Matt,
> > >
> > > (PRESENTE!)
> > >
> > > WBAI and Pacifica were the ALTERNATIVE RADIO.  After that, yes, the
> > fascist
> > > state will have silenced us and few Democrats will have said a thing.
> > >
> > > MY RESPONSE:(AGREED.  NOW LET US UNITE TO:RIP DOWN THE CONFEDERATE
> > > FLAG!ABOLISH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!BEAT BACK SCHUNDLER!SEIZE POWER
> > > EVERYWHERE THAT REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY CAN ADVANCE!AND, FINALLY,
> UTELIZE
> > > REASON & SCIENCE AS WELL AS PASSION....IN THE STRUGGLE FOR
> NITY  -MATTHEW
> > > SMITH)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> >
> >
> >
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>
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>







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1991
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-30 09:21:33
Subject:Re: [onepeoplesproject] Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
Message:

don't call it what it isn't -
what is it FRAUD?

joe smith


>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
>To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>, 
><nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>CC: <nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>, <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>, 
><amirib@...>, <jmodibo@...>
>Subject: Re: [onepeoplesproject] Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, 
>Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:54:49 -0400
>
>This is neither a response to my remarks nor an analysis.
>
>". . . there is no slander in an allowed fool, though he do nothing but
>rail"
>-Twelfth Night
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>Cc: <nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>; <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>;
><amirib@...>; <jmodibo@...>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:31 PM
>Subject: [onepeoplesproject] Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing
>Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
>
>
> > all eyes on hunger-fraud the "judas-goat".
> >
> > the "first thing to do", under the circumstances, is to keep the 
>"butcher"
> > out of "recognized" political power, i.e. governor, president...
> >
> > this means now: smash schundler! keep mcgreasy in the fire!
> > as we build the necessary peoples' political organization to defeat them
> > both.
> >
> > you shd know that hunger-fraud encouraged splitting the anti-bush vote 
>in
> > '00, endorsing nadir's folly,
> >
> > & encouraged splitting the anti-dole vote in '96, saying the
>contradictions
> > between clinton & dole were "illusions", and endorsing a "boycott".
> >
> > objectively (which matters most) this is the "butcher's" best strategy 
>for
> > the peoples' forces.
> >
> > science, not schemes.
> >
> > cliff
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>,
> > ><siddharta5@...>, <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> > >CC: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>, <amirib@...>,
> > ><MeadHajduk@...>, <hajdukmi@...>, <jmodibo@...>,
> > ><Paul4sure@...>
> > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, 
>Matthew,
> > >Howard, Fascists
> > >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:28:34 -0400
> > >
> > >You bring up a lot of points, Howard. Let me respond to a few.
> > >
> > >Your historic reference to Hitler is factually inaccurate. The Hit-man
>was
> > >never elected. He was appointed to the chancellorship of Germany when 
>the
> > >Nazi vote was declining and class struggle was acute and rising. The
> > >Communist Party was large and active, the most consistent opponent of 
>the
> > >Nazis. The bourgeoisie turned to fascism because the outbreak of
>revolution
> > >was too likely for them to continue with parliamentary democracy.
> > >
> > >Hitler was able to consolidate his grip because the right-wing Social
> > >Democrats (Gerry Schroeder's direct political ancestors) caved in to 
>the
> > >Nazis and broke ranks with the working class forces. They were labor
>union
> > >bureaucrats like the AFL-CIO bureaucracy that is so slavishly tied to 
>the
> > >Democrats.
> > >
> > >What we need are firm and consistent political organizations that serve
>the
> > >people, not the bourgeoisie. The Democrats have always impeded this 
>kind
>of
> > >organization. If the Republicans are the butcher, the Dems are the 
>Judas
> > >goat that leads the people to the slaughter. In such a situation the
>first
> > >thing to do is to get people to stop following the Judas goat. If the
>goat
> > >is no longer effective then even the butcher is going to find his whole
>act
> > >no longer works. In the case of the NJ Gov election, McGreevey doesn't
>want
> > >voters to have a choice to his left. But neither does Schundler! That's
> > >where someone like Coleman can play a part.
> > >
> > >We need the same things today that the people have always needed: a
>genuine
> > >revolutionary party of the working class, that is, a Communist Party 
>that
> > >can alone give real and consistent leadership against the bourgeoisie;
>and,
> > >a broad united-front electoral and "legal" party (legality is always a
>very
> > >dodgy thing under capitalism) to break the grip of  Repubocrats. But 
>you
> > >are
> > >right on the main point: we need a revolution. This can only be brought
> > >about by the working class. That is why we need the Communist Party
>(i.e.,
> > >a
> > >real one.)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
> > >To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>;
> > ><siddharta5@...>; <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Cc: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>; <amirib@...>;
> > ><MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>; <jmodibo@...>;
> > ><Paul4sure@...>
> > >Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:12 PM
> > >Subject: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard,
> > >Fascists
> > >
> > >
> > > > I hope these are my last mumblings on this subject.
> > > >
> > > > IF nothing else, candidates such as Nader and Coleman help to bring 
>up
> > > > issues most critical to the well-being of the community. When their
> > >message
> > > > reaches the public, it serves to hold the leading contenders' feet 
>to
> > >the
> > > > fire.
> > > > The major point of dispute is whether a 3rd party candidate will 
>cause
> > >[has
> > > > caused] the loss of the least crappy of the two leading contenders.
> > > > If we all keep voting for Gores and McGreevys, election after
>election,
> > >how
> > > > does it suddenly become possible for a true progressive to ever win 
>--
> > >the
> > > > public will not have heard of that person before?!
> > > >
> > > > In the absence of a Hitler-like main contender, a rational path 
>could
>be
> > > > to put adequate resources into supporting progressive Assembly,
> > > > Senate and Council candidates -- who control legislation, and take 
>the
> > > > Chinese long view of the Governorship by continuing to put up worthy
> > > > candidates for that office, even tho it may allow the greater of 2
>evils
> > >to
> > > > win. If the PEOPLE don't get the message of their bad decision in
>short
> > > > order, then the people are the problem. Meanwhile the 3rd party
> > >candidate
> > > > and party should keep up the promotion of their better ideas BETWEEN
> > > > elections to keep the education of the public rolling and to prime 
>the
> > > > public awareness for the next election.
> > > >
> > > > On the national scene, either Nader and the Green Party have failed 
>to
> > >TRY
> > > > do this since the Supreme Court COUP, or the masses have not gotten
>the
> > > > Green Party's continuing message
> > > > for other reasons [lack of GP funds, ostracized from public media
> > >outlets,
> > > > ...]
> > > >
> > > > If it's a Hitler vs a Crap in a close race next time, it would be
> > >suicide
> > >to
> > > > vote for 3rd, 4th, 5th party candidates. Germany learned and taught 
>us
> > >that
> > > > back in the late 1920's and 1930's. Short of that kind of choice, a
> > >worthy
> > > > 3rd party candidate exposes and infects the general populace with a
> > >better
> > > > TRUTH, exposes lies, and proposes plans for a better way.
> > > >
> > > > In the absence of reasonably detailed plans [including sources of
> > >funding
> > > > for the plan] presented to support the progressive program planks, 
>the
> > > > public should assume the candidate is so full of crap that it's
> > >overflowing
> > > > as political blather, sentimental rather than hard-headed sensible..
> > > >
> > > > In a democracy I don't see a better, less painful way to get the job
> > >done
> > > > after decades of political neglect BY THE VOTING AGE PUBLIC. If we
> > > > externalize the problem onto rotten politicians, we compound the
>problem
> > >by
> > > > not owning it as OUR personal responsibility or lack thereof in 
>being
> > > > participants in our own democratic government.
> > > >
> > > > We need a gahdam Revolution in what it means to be a citizen; maybe
>the
> > > > coming economic collapse will kick us all in the cortex and colon.
> > > >
> > > > I applaud and admire your continuing efforts to register, educate 
>and
> > >get
> > > > the vote out.
> > > > If I am not a complete slimeball, I'll join you on Sat and/or 
>Sundays.
> > > > Regarding Leid's management techniques and Fascism as applied to
> > >business,
> > > > 'If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and floats like a
> > >duck,
> > > > and flies like a duck, and ducks the truth like a duck, and looks 
>like
> > >duck,
> > > > is it really a ventriliquising goose, or is it PERHAPS a duck?'
> > > >
> > > > Up justice.
> > > >
> > > > Horrid
> > > >
> > > > P.S. How can we believe the latest poll of 395 people as indicating
> > >McGreevy
> > > > has a very large lead over Schundler, when we don't know whether the
> > > > demographics of the 395 polled match the demographics of the 
>millions
>of
> > > > expected-to-vote citizens. I admit my blatant ignorance of 
>statistics,
> > >but
> > > > how can they calculate a margin of error without knowing the true
> > >outcome
> > >of
> > > > the election against which to compare their statistical sample of 
>395?
> > >What
> > > > are all of the assumptions made in this report? Are we being lulled
>into
> > > > complacency like Dewey was in his race against Truman?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > > > To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>; <siddharta5@...>;
> > > > <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Cc: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; 
><onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>;
> > > > <amirib@...>; <MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>;
> > > > <jmodibo@...>; <Paul4sure@...>
> > > > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:45 PM
> > > > Subject: [poprogress] Response to Fred & Howard Re: Rothenberg's
> > >analysis
> > >of
> > > > the fascist rule and WBAI
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > (I WISH TO THANK FRED N.(NJFRIENDS) & HOWARD (P.O.P.) FOR 
>RESPONDING
> > >TO
> > >MY
> > > > > POST RE: ROTHENBERG'S ADDRESS OF SITUATION AT WBAI.  IT'S
>ENCOURAGING
> > >THAT
> > > > > NOT EVERYONE THINKS THIS DEBATE ALSO INVOLVING THE 2000 NATIONAL
> > >ELECTIONS
> > > > > IS EITHER FINISHED, FUTILE, OR SIMPLY A THREAT TO THEIR 
>ASPIRATIONS.
> > >I'VE
> > > > > DONE MY BEST TO RESPOND TO BOTH ARGUMENTS, BY WAY OF FRED'S
> > >LETTER--AND
> > >TO
> > > > > HOWARD I WOULD ONLY ADD THAT WHILE YOUR LETTER WAS VERY ARTICULATE
>AND
> > > > > MOVINGLY PASSIONATE, YOU NEGLECTED SOME OF THE MOST CRITICAL 
>ISSUES
>I
> > > > > RAISED.  MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS BELOW -MATTHEW SMITH, UNITY &
> > >STRUGGLE)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred N. wrote:
> > > > > Friends,This post was sent to the friends of wbai - NJ list which 
>is
> > >not
> > >a
> > > > > discussionboard but anannouncement board which I moderate.I will 
>not
> > >post
> > > > it
> > > > > but will respond below as interspersed in CAPS:Fred N. (NJ)-
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -- original message-- Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...> 
>wrote:>>
> > >This
> > > > is
> > > > > an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's>
>support
> > >of
> > > > > Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush &> 
>the
> > >right
> > > > > stole the 2001 election.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred's Reply: There has never been an endorsement of Ralph Nader 
>by
> > >WBAI
> > > > >
> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- WHILE THERE ARE, NO WERE, MANY DIVERSE VOICES 
>AT
> > >WBAI,
> > > > > THERE WAS CLEARLY A DOMINANT TREND AMONGST THE NOW 'BANNED AND
>FIRED'
> > >WHO
> > > > > WERE THE MOST ARDENT SUPPORTERS OF NADER, AND THERE IS ALOT OF
>OVERLAP
> > >IN
> > > > > TERMS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE BASE OF SUPPORTERS.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -- original message-- Interesting, but one of David> Rothenburg's
>main
> > > > > errors (similar to what we've heard from> WBAI/naderites/greens
>since
> > >the
> > > > > X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead with> Hitler (Lead is a
> > >bullying
> > > > > traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, but> not a fascist & to
> > >call
> > > > her
> > > > > a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 &> Co.--though WBAI coup 
>is
> > > > > certainly part of erotion of democracy in US),> According to
> > >Rothenberg,
> > > > the
> > > > > #1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, while> 
>Bush2/Republican/REAL
> > > > > FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of proper> historic
> > >analysis)
> > > > > even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that WBAI's> support
>of
> > > > Nader
> > > > > helped throw the election to B2!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred's Reply:  I did not listen to David Rothenberg's talk, where,
>by
> > >the
> > > > > way, heannounces that he maynever return because he is likely to 
>be
> > >fired
> > > > > for saying what he was saying.
> > > > >
> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- SINCE THIS IS OUR FIRST EXCHANGE, LET ME
>REITERATE
> > >UP
> > > > > FRONT MY UNBENDING, BUT CRITICAL, SUPPORT FOR THE EXILE COMMUNITY 
>AT
> > >WBAI.
> > > > > WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING THERE IS A TRAVESTY AND AN ASSAULT ON
> > >DEMOCRACY,
> > > > AS
> > > > > WBAI HAS BEEN A GREAT AND NECESSARY PUBLIC INSTITUTION.  & TO BE
>SURE,
> > >I
> > > > > HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT I CAN TO SHOW THAT SUPPORT, (DISPENSING
> > >INFORMATION,
> > > > > ATTENDING RALLIES, MAKING PHONE CALLS), THOUGH IT NEVER FEELS LIKE
> > >ENOUGH
> > > > > WHEN EVERY WEEK ANOTHER IMPORTANT VOICE IS SILENCED....)
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred's: Ido agree withDavid on the point that the methods used by
> > >Utrice
> > > > > Leid are common to thefascists (suppression ofspeech,
> > >intimidation/public
> > > > > humiliation, false claims of theft/violence andconstant
> > >personalattacks.
> > >
> > > > U.
> > > > > Leid also installed an 8 camera audio-video serveillance
> > >systemcomplete
> > > > > withcard-key entry system which makes Rykers Island look low tech.
> > > > >
> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(I HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH DRAWING COMPARISONS TO THE
> > >METHODS
> > > > USED
> > > > > TO LOCK OUT THE DISSENTING VOICES WITH 'AUTHORITARIAN' OR
> > >'TOTALITARIAN'
> > > > > METHODS ASSOCIATED WITH A CORPORATE TAKE-OVER, BUT 'FASCISM' HAS A
> > >VERY
> > > > > SPECIFIC MEANING...MY ARGUEMENT WAS IS THAT UTRICE LEID HERSELF 
>HAS
> > >BEEN
> > > > > LABELED A 'FASCIST' WITH THE SAME SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION THAT
> > >CHIDED
> > > > > SOME OF US DURING THE ELECTION FOR POINTING TO THE DANGER OF THE
> > > > BUSH2CREW,
> > > > > THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT & CORPORATE FASCISTS (MORE ON THAT BELOW)
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred's: I also agreethat the DemocraticParty has betrayed the
>American
> > > > > working class and is now dominated by people whoare doing 
>thebidding
> > >of
> > > > very
> > > > > large corporations and global finance interests.
> > > > >
> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- ONLY SOME KIND OF CONFUSION THAT THE DEM'S EVER
> > >SERVED
> > > > > THE INTEREST OF THE AMREICAN W.C. WOULD LEAD ANYONE TO THINK THAT
>THEY
> > > > HAVE
> > > > > SINCE BETRAYED THEM.  THE DEM. PARTY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BOURGEOIS
> > >PARTY,
> > > > AND
> > > > > HAS ALWAYS BEEN DOMINATED BY PEOPLE DOING BIDDING OF LARGE
> > >CORPORATIONS.
> > > > > EVEN ROOSEVELT, WHO "SAVED CAPITIALISM FROM THE CAPITALISTS".  OUR
> > > > ARGUMENT
> > > > > HERE, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE ROOSEVELT THAN HITLER.
> > >THE
> > > > > GREENS HELPED BRING US WHO?....WHAT DID ROTHENBURG SAY ABOUT
>SWINGING
> > >THE
> > > > > VOTE TO BUSH, AND WHY WERE THE REPUBLICANS RUNNING NADER ADS 
>DURING
> > >THE
> > > > > CAMPAIGN?
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred's: The fact that Amy Goodman reported on Nader does not mean
>that
> > > > WBAI
> > > > > was a station controlled by the Greens.
> > > > >
> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(IT WAS A DOMINANT TREND)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -- original message-- There's a deep imbalance> of perspective 
>that
> > >needs
> > > > to
> > > > > be corrected here in terms of the Green Party> histortic role in
>2001,
> > > > > causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and Rep's> as no worse.
> > > > > (Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green voting>
>base!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred's Reply:  The Dems are not a threat to the Greens, the Greens
>did
> > >not
> > > > > defeat Al Gore.  Al Gore and the DNC and massive 
>corporate-sponsored
> > > > > campaigning turned off voters and defeated Al Gore.  Half of all
> > >registers
> > > > > don't vote.  Half a billion dollars worth of 
>corporatecontributions
> > >did
> > > > not
> > > > > change that.
> > > > >
> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(HOLY MACKERAL! AL GORE WON! THIS IS WHAT I MEAN WHEN 
>I
> > >SAY
> > > > THE
> > > > > GREENS AS WELL AS MUCH OF THE, DARE I SAY, PETIT-BOURG 'LEFT', DE
> > >FACTO,
> > > > > GIVE BUSH2 & THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT A FREE PASS.  RECALL THAT WHEN 
>THE
> > > > > ELECTION WAS BEING STOLEN IN FLORIDA & BY D.C.'S OBSCENE COURT, 
>NOT
> > >FROM
> > > > > GORE, MIND YOU, BUT FROM THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO DID VOTE, THE
> > >NADER
> > > > > SUPPORTERS WENT WHERE?  BACK TO SEATTLE FOR "GLOBALIZATION 
>PROTEST,
> > >PART
> > > > > II"- UNFORTUNATELY, NADER AND THE GREENS ALLOWED THEIR, 
>MORE-OR-LESS
> > >WELL
> > > > > INTENDED, MAINLY WHITE & MIDDLE-CLASS, CONSTITUENCY BELIEVE THAT 
>IT
> > >WAS
> > > > > BETTER TO *PROTEST* GLOBAL IMPERIALISM THAN TO *SEIZE POWER* FROM
>ITS
> > >MOST
> > > > > JINGOISTIC, BACKWARD,& REACTIONARY REPRESENTATIVES (ie: the
> > >f-f-FASCISTS)
> > > > AS
> > > > > THEY WERE BUSY UNDERMINING THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL VOTE, TRAMPLING
>ON
> > >THE
> > > > > VOTER RIGHTS ACT OF 1964, AND THROWING THE 13TH, 14TH, & 15TH
> > >AMMENDMENTS
> > > > > OUT THE SCARY WINDOW--ALL OF WHICH, OF COURSE, AFFECT THE POOREST
>AND
> > > > > OPPRESSED NATIONALISTIES MOST AND FIRST.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -- original message-- To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, suburban
> > > > Montclair
> > > > > was there, but> not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., let
> > >alone
> > > > the
> > > > > working class> from any town)  This same opportunism causes the
>P.B.,
> > >esp.
> > > > > on the left, to> think that only when it comes for THEM, then it's
> > >worthy
> > > > of
> > > > > the name> fascism!
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred's Reply:  Actually, Ralph Nader did have some very large
>popular
> > > > > rallies around the country that were not covered by the mass 
>medias.
> > >It's
> > > > a
> > > > > bitch to try to be prez without money and free publicity from the
> > > > corporate
> > > > > medias.  WBAI was doing what it's mission states: air the voices 
>of
> > > > dissent
> > > > > that are not presented anywhere else.
> > > > >
> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(AS WBAI SHOULD, NO DOUBT...BUT THE PROBLEM AGAIN WITH
>THE
> > > > GREEN
> > > > > PARTY STRATEGY IS THAT THEY HAVE WANTED THE HEAD WITHOUT BUILDING
>THE
> > > > BODY.
> > > > > WELL BEFORE NADER CAME STROLLING, LA-DI-DA, INTO THE ELECTION
>CAMPAIGN
> > > > SOME
> > > > > TIME LATE- WAY BACK DURING THE PRIMARY SEASON, "UNITY & STRUGGLE"
> > >ISSUED
> > > > THE
> > > > > CALL TO FORM A 'LEFT-BLOC' UNITED FRONT TO "MARCH SEPERATELY, 
>STRIKE
> > > > > TOGETHER" AGAINST THE FAR-RIGHT IN GERNERAL,  TO PUSH BRADLEY TO 
>THE
> > >LEFT
> > > > IN
> > > > > OPPOSITION TO GORE, AND TO AIM SPECIFIC BLOWS AT, FOR INSTANCE, 
>THE
> > >CLOSED
> > > > > BOURGEOIS DEBATE FORUM AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE (IMAGINE!).  BUT
>ALSO
> > >TO
> > > > > RUN CAMPAIGNS WHERE WE CAN WIN! (CONCRETELY: WE HAD A CITY COUNCIL
> > >RACE
> > >IN
> > > > > NEW BRUNSWICK IN 2000 WHERE WE UNITED WITH GREENS ON A "PEOPLES'
> > > > DEMOCRACY"
> > > > > CAMPAIGN, & NOW WE ARE BACKING RAS BARAKA2002 FOR CITY COUNCIL IN
> > >NEWARK.)
> > > > > BUT LOOK! HERE COME THE NJGREENS AGAIN, UNCRITICALLY, THREATENING
>WITH
> > >THE
> > > > > SAME BLUNDER THAT BROUGHT US B2, NOW IN AN ABSOLUTELY UNWINABLE
> > > > GUBENETORIAL
> > > > > RACE IN NJ, DECLARING THAT THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
> > >CENTRIST-PUPPET
> > > > > MCGREEVY AND FAR-RIGHT IDEOLOGUE SCHUNDLER, OR AT LEAST NOT ENOUGH
>FOR
> > >THE
> > > > > NJGREENS TO INSTEAD ENDORSE A LEFT-BLOC UNITED FRONT 
>STRATEGY-THEIR
> > > > PROBLEM
> > > > > (WHICH IS NOW OUR PROBLEM) IS THAT THEY WANT TO GO IT ALONE, 
>RATHER
> > >THAN
> > > > > JOINING IN A UNITED FRONT TO RUN CAMPAIGNS  WHERE WE CAN WIN, AND
>YES,
> > > > > UNITING AGAINST THE WORSE EVIL IN THE SHORT-TERM.   
>(BUSH/SCHUNDLER)
> > > > > OPPORTUNISM IS ESSENTIALLY SACRIFICING THE LONG-TERM GOAL FOR THE
> > >SHORT
> > > > > TERM.  THIS IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH I APPLY THE TERM TO THE GREEN
> > >PARTY
> > > > > STRATEGY.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -- original message-- Yet, how many more times will we hear many 
>of
> > >the
> > > > same
> > > > > people say,> "It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real
> > >fascists)
> > > > > because it will> only strengthen the resisitance"Reply:  Someone
>said
> > > > that?
> > > > > Who? David Rothenberg?  Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar in>
>the
> > > > > 1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending Amy
> > >Goodman>
> > > > &
> > > > > Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to this
>mess.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred's Reply:  What led to this mess is the Corporation for Public
> > > > > Broadcasting funding which allowed board members from large
> > >corporations
> > > > to
> > > > > be named to the Pacifica Board and a Series of executives with
> > >connections
> > > > > with the Clinton administration to take over Pacifica and 
>undertake
> > >its
> > > > > destruction.
> > > > >
> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHERE THE DOMINANT
>TREND
> > >OF
> > > > > GREEN SUPPORT AT THE OLD WBAI AND THE GREEN PARTY ITSELF, IF NOT 
>DE
> > >JURY
> > > > > THEN DE FACTO, ESPOUSE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS A GREATER 
>THREAT
> > >TO
> > > > THEM
> > > > > THAN THE REPUBLICAN AND FAR-RIGHT.  THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE AN
> > >INTRIGUING
> > > > > CASE TO BE MADE THAT UTRICE LEID & CO. REPRESENT THE STRONG-ARM OF 
>A
> > > > > DEMOCRATIC PARTY TAKE-OVER AND 'NPR'-ING OF WBAI (& WE ALL KNOW 
>THAT
> > > > > CORPORATE 'UNDERWRITING' IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER) AGAIN, AS I
>SAID,
> > >ONLY
> > > > > THE CONFUSED NOTION THAT THE BOURGEOISIE'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY EVER
> > >WORKED
> > >IN
> > > > > THE TRUE INTERESTS OF THE W.C. WOULD STIR UP THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS
> > > > INDIGNATION
> > > > > THAT FOLLOWS BETRAYAL.  BUT WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THIS TAKE-OVER OF
> > >WBAI
> > > > DOES
> > > > > NOT EXIST IN ISOLATION FROM THE CORPORATE TAKE-OVER OF ALL SPHERES
>OF
> > > > PUBLIC
> > > > > LIFE & CULTURE?  HOW LONG HAS NPR BEEN RUNNIN LEXUS ADS AFTER ALL?
> > >HOW
> > > > > ABOUT THE COOPTATION OF HIP-HOP?  JAZZ?  THE BLUES?  IF YOU READ
>AMIRI
> > > > > BARAKA'S RECENT SLAMMING OF THE ENSUING COOPTATION OF SLAM-POETRY,
> > >YOU'LL
> > > > > SEE THE SAME TREND.  THIS IS AS OLD AS CONSTANTINE'S "CONVERSION" 
>TO
> > > > > CHRISTIANITY.  THE DIFFERENCE WITH WBAI IS THAT IT'S SUCH A VITAL
> > > > COMPONENT
> > > > > OF THE REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRATIC STRUGGLE AND LOSING IT AS A 
>RESOURCE
> > >IS
> > > > > STILL BIZARRELY UNTHINKABLE.  BUT SO WHAT IF WE CAN AGREE THAT THE
> > > > DEMOCRATS
> > > > > ARE THE IMMEDIATE ASSASSINES.  THIS DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE 
>FACT
> > >THAT
> > > > > WHILE IMPERIALISM IS TAKING OVER MORE AND MORE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS
> > >(BTW,
> > > > MR.
> > > > > JERRY COLEMAN- SCHUNDLER WANTS TO PRIVATIZE LIBRARIES!!) THE
>**ENTIRE
> > > > > POLITICAL SPECTRUM** HAS SHIFTED RIGHT.  NOT JUST, SIMPLY, AND/OR
>ONLY
> > >THE
> > > > > DEMOCRATS, VIA NEW-DEM CLINTON, AS THE GREENS PROFESS WHEN THEY
> > >SUGGEST
> > > > THE
> > > > > MORPHING OF THE TWO PARTIES!  THIS IS OBJECTIVE AND IRREFUTABLE, 
>ONE
> > >WOULD
> > > > > THINK.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred's: David Rothenberg knows.  Al Lewis knows.  Bob Lederer,
>Robert
> > > > > Knight, Juan Gonzales, Deepa Fernandes, Mimi Rosenberg, Verna 
>Avery
> > >Brown,
> > > > > Mario Murillo, Ken Nash and Bernard White's Wake Up Call's crew
>know.
> > >The
> > > > > democratic party will not save us.  They are running the same
>national
> > > > > security state and prison/military industrial complex with the 
>same
> > > > motives
> > > > > of fear, greed and hubris than their republican friends.
> > > > >
> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(YES, YES.  INOTHERWORDS, THEY ARE ALL IMERIALISTS.
>LET'S
> > > > CALL
> > > > > IT WHAT IT IS.)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred's: Wake up Matt,
> > > > >
> > > > > (PRESENTE!)
> > > > >
> > > > > WBAI and Pacifica were the ALTERNATIVE RADIO.  After that, yes, 
>the
> > > > fascist
> > > > > state will have silenced us and few Democrats will have said a
>thing.
> > > > >
> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(AGREED.  NOW LET US UNITE TO:RIP DOWN THE CONFEDERATE
> > > > > FLAG!ABOLISH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!BEAT BACK SCHUNDLER!SEIZE POWER
> > > > > EVERYWHERE THAT REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY CAN ADVANCE!AND, FINALLY,
> > >UTELIZE
> > > > > REASON & SCIENCE AS WELL AS PASSION....IN THE STRUGGLE FOR
> > >NITY  -MATTHEW
> > > > > SMITH)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > IF YOU CONTINUE TO THINK AS YOU ALWAYS THOUGHT, YOU WILL CONTINUE TO GET
>WHAT YOU ALWAYS GOT!
> >
> > VISIT THE ONE PEOPLE'S PROJECT WEBSITE:
> > http://www.onepeople.mysticalzone.net
> >
> > ALSO VISIT OUR IRC CHANNEL:
> > #oprchat at dalnet
> >
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> >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1992
Sender:dbh <dbh@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-30 20:42:23
Subject:RE: [onepeoplesproject] Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
Message:

Yes, Joe, you're right - Cliff's note isn't a response to mine, it isn't an 
analysis of anything, but it IS a fraud. Glad you pointed it out.

>===== Original Message From "joseph smith" <can_bush@...> =====
>don't call it what it isn't -
>what is it FRAUD?
>
>joe smith
>
>
>>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>>Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
>>To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>,
>><nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>>CC: <nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>, <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>,
>><amirib@...>, <jmodibo@...>
>>Subject: Re: [onepeoplesproject] Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg,
>>Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
>>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:54:49 -0400
>>
>>This is neither a response to my remarks nor an analysis.
>>
>>". . . there is no slander in an allowed fool, though he do nothing but
>>rail"
>>-Twelfth Night
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>>Cc: <nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>; <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>;
>><amirib@...>; <jmodibo@...>
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:31 PM
>>Subject: [onepeoplesproject] Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing
>>Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
>>
>>
>> > all eyes on hunger-fraud the "judas-goat".
>> >
>> > the "first thing to do", under the circumstances, is to keep the
>>"butcher"
>> > out of "recognized" political power, i.e. governor, president...
>> >
>> > this means now: smash schundler! keep mcgreasy in the fire!
>> > as we build the necessary peoples' political organization to defeat them
>> > both.
>> >
>> > you shd know that hunger-fraud encouraged splitting the anti-bush vote
>>in
>> > '00, endorsing nadir's folly,
>> >
>> > & encouraged splitting the anti-dole vote in '96, saying the
>>contradictions
>> > between clinton & dole were "illusions", and endorsing a "boycott".
>> >
>> > objectively (which matters most) this is the "butcher's" best strategy
>>for
>> > the peoples' forces.
>> >
>> > science, not schemes.
>> >
>> > cliff
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>> > >To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>,
>> > ><siddharta5@...>, <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
>> > >CC: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>, <amirib@...>,
>> > ><MeadHajduk@...>, <hajdukmi@...>, <jmodibo@...>,
>> > ><Paul4sure@...>
>> > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred,
>>Matthew,
>> > >Howard, Fascists
>> > >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:28:34 -0400
>> > >
>> > >You bring up a lot of points, Howard. Let me respond to a few.
>> > >
>> > >Your historic reference to Hitler is factually inaccurate. The Hit-man
>>was
>> > >never elected. He was appointed to the chancellorship of Germany when
>>the
>> > >Nazi vote was declining and class struggle was acute and rising. The
>> > >Communist Party was large and active, the most consistent opponent of
>>the
>> > >Nazis. The bourgeoisie turned to fascism because the outbreak of
>>revolution
>> > >was too likely for them to continue with parliamentary democracy.
>> > >
>> > >Hitler was able to consolidate his grip because the right-wing Social
>> > >Democrats (Gerry Schroeder's direct political ancestors) caved in to
>>the
>> > >Nazis and broke ranks with the working class forces. They were labor
>>union
>> > >bureaucrats like the AFL-CIO bureaucracy that is so slavishly tied to
>>the
>> > >Democrats.
>> > >
>> > >What we need are firm and consistent political organizations that serve
>>the
>> > >people, not the bourgeoisie. The Democrats have always impeded this
>>kind
>>of
>> > >organization. If the Republicans are the butcher, the Dems are the
>>Judas
>> > >goat that leads the people to the slaughter. In such a situation the
>>first
>> > >thing to do is to get people to stop following the Judas goat. If the
>>goat
>> > >is no longer effective then even the butcher is going to find his whole
>>act
>> > >no longer works. In the case of the NJ Gov election, McGreevey doesn't
>>want
>> > >voters to have a choice to his left. But neither does Schundler! That's
>> > >where someone like Coleman can play a part.
>> > >
>> > >We need the same things today that the people have always needed: a
>>genuine
>> > >revolutionary party of the working class, that is, a Communist Party
>>that
>> > >can alone give real and consistent leadership against the bourgeoisie;
>>and,
>> > >a broad united-front electoral and "legal" party (legality is always a
>>very
>> > >dodgy thing under capitalism) to break the grip of  Repubocrats. But
>>you
>> > >are
>> > >right on the main point: we need a revolution. This can only be brought
>> > >about by the working class. That is why we need the Communist Party
>>(i.e.,
>> > >a
>> > >real one.)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >----- Original Message -----
>> > >From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
>> > >To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>;
>> > ><siddharta5@...>; <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
>> > >Cc: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>; <amirib@...>;
>> > ><MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>; <jmodibo@...>;
>> > ><Paul4sure@...>
>> > >Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:12 PM
>> > >Subject: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard,
>> > >Fascists
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > I hope these are my last mumblings on this subject.
>> > > >
>> > > > IF nothing else, candidates such as Nader and Coleman help to bring
>>up
>> > > > issues most critical to the well-being of the community. When their
>> > >message
>> > > > reaches the public, it serves to hold the leading contenders' feet
>>to
>> > >the
>> > > > fire.
>> > > > The major point of dispute is whether a 3rd party candidate will
>>cause
>> > >[has
>> > > > caused] the loss of the least crappy of the two leading contenders.
>> > > > If we all keep voting for Gores and McGreevys, election after
>>election,
>> > >how
>> > > > does it suddenly become possible for a true progressive to ever win
>>--
>> > >the
>> > > > public will not have heard of that person before?!
>> > > >
>> > > > In the absence of a Hitler-like main contender, a rational path
>>could
>>be
>> > > > to put adequate resources into supporting progressive Assembly,
>> > > > Senate and Council candidates -- who control legislation, and take
>>the
>> > > > Chinese long view of the Governorship by continuing to put up worthy
>> > > > candidates for that office, even tho it may allow the greater of 2
>>evils
>> > >to
>> > > > win. If the PEOPLE don't get the message of their bad decision in
>>short
>> > > > order, then the people are the problem. Meanwhile the 3rd party
>> > >candidate
>> > > > and party should keep up the promotion of their better ideas BETWEEN
>> > > > elections to keep the education of the public rolling and to prime
>>the
>> > > > public awareness for the next election.
>> > > >
>> > > > On the national scene, either Nader and the Green Party have failed
>>to
>> > >TRY
>> > > > do this since the Supreme Court COUP, or the masses have not gotten
>>the
>> > > > Green Party's continuing message
>> > > > for other reasons [lack of GP funds, ostracized from public media
>> > >outlets,
>> > > > ...]
>> > > >
>> > > > If it's a Hitler vs a Crap in a close race next time, it would be
>> > >suicide
>> > >to
>> > > > vote for 3rd, 4th, 5th party candidates. Germany learned and taught
>>us
>> > >that
>> > > > back in the late 1920's and 1930's. Short of that kind of choice, a
>> > >worthy
>> > > > 3rd party candidate exposes and infects the general populace with a
>> > >better
>> > > > TRUTH, exposes lies, and proposes plans for a better way.
>> > > >
>> > > > In the absence of reasonably detailed plans [including sources of
>> > >funding
>> > > > for the plan] presented to support the progressive program planks,
>>the
>> > > > public should assume the candidate is so full of crap that it's
>> > >overflowing
>> > > > as political blather, sentimental rather than hard-headed sensible..
>> > > >
>> > > > In a democracy I don't see a better, less painful way to get the job
>> > >done
>> > > > after decades of political neglect BY THE VOTING AGE PUBLIC. If we
>> > > > externalize the problem onto rotten politicians, we compound the
>>problem
>> > >by
>> > > > not owning it as OUR personal responsibility or lack thereof in
>>being
>> > > > participants in our own democratic government.
>> > > >
>> > > > We need a gahdam Revolution in what it means to be a citizen; maybe
>>the
>> > > > coming economic collapse will kick us all in the cortex and colon.
>> > > >
>> > > > I applaud and admire your continuing efforts to register, educate
>>and
>> > >get
>> > > > the vote out.
>> > > > If I am not a complete slimeball, I'll join you on Sat and/or
>>Sundays.
>> > > > Regarding Leid's management techniques and Fascism as applied to
>> > >business,
>> > > > 'If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and floats like a
>> > >duck,
>> > > > and flies like a duck, and ducks the truth like a duck, and looks
>>like
>> > >duck,
>> > > > is it really a ventriliquising goose, or is it PERHAPS a duck?'
>> > > >
>> > > > Up justice.
>> > > >
>> > > > Horrid
>> > > >
>> > > > P.S. How can we believe the latest poll of 395 people as indicating
>> > >McGreevy
>> > > > has a very large lead over Schundler, when we don't know whether the
>> > > > demographics of the 395 polled match the demographics of the
>>millions
>>of
>> > > > expected-to-vote citizens. I admit my blatant ignorance of
>>statistics,
>> > >but
>> > > > how can they calculate a margin of error without knowing the true
>> > >outcome
>> > >of
>> > > > the election against which to compare their statistical sample of
>>395?
>> > >What
>> > > > are all of the assumptions made in this report? Are we being lulled
>>into
>> > > > complacency like Dewey was in his race against Truman?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>> > > > To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>; <siddharta5@...>;
>> > > > <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
>> > > > Cc: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>;
>><onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>;
>> > > > <amirib@...>; <MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>;
>> > > > <jmodibo@...>; <Paul4sure@...>
>> > > > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:45 PM
>> > > > Subject: [poprogress] Response to Fred & Howard Re: Rothenberg's
>> > >analysis
>> > >of
>> > > > the fascist rule and WBAI
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > (I WISH TO THANK FRED N.(NJFRIENDS) & HOWARD (P.O.P.) FOR
>>RESPONDING
>> > >TO
>> > >MY
>> > > > > POST RE: ROTHENBERG'S ADDRESS OF SITUATION AT WBAI.  IT'S
>>ENCOURAGING
>> > >THAT
>> > > > > NOT EVERYONE THINKS THIS DEBATE ALSO INVOLVING THE 2000 NATIONAL
>> > >ELECTIONS
>> > > > > IS EITHER FINISHED, FUTILE, OR SIMPLY A THREAT TO THEIR
>>ASPIRATIONS.
>> > >I'VE
>> > > > > DONE MY BEST TO RESPOND TO BOTH ARGUMENTS, BY WAY OF FRED'S
>> > >LETTER--AND
>> > >TO
>> > > > > HOWARD I WOULD ONLY ADD THAT WHILE YOUR LETTER WAS VERY ARTICULATE
>>AND
>> > > > > MOVINGLY PASSIONATE, YOU NEGLECTED SOME OF THE MOST CRITICAL
>>ISSUES
>>I
>> > > > > RAISED.  MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS BELOW -MATTHEW SMITH, UNITY &
>> > >STRUGGLE)
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Fred N. wrote:
>> > > > > Friends,This post was sent to the friends of wbai - NJ list which
>>is
>> > >not
>> > >a
>> > > > > discussionboard but anannouncement board which I moderate.I will
>>not
>> > >post
>> > > > it
>> > > > > but will respond below as interspersed in CAPS:Fred N. (NJ)-
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -- original message-- Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...>
>>wrote:>>
>> > >This
>> > > > is
>> > > > > an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's>
>>support
>> > >of
>> > > > > Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush &>
>>the
>> > >right
>> > > > > stole the 2001 election.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Fred's Reply: There has never been an endorsement of Ralph Nader
>>by
>> > >WBAI
>> > > > >
>> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- WHILE THERE ARE, NO WERE, MANY DIVERSE VOICES
>>AT
>> > >WBAI,
>> > > > > THERE WAS CLEARLY A DOMINANT TREND AMONGST THE NOW 'BANNED AND
>>FIRED'
>> > >WHO
>> > > > > WERE THE MOST ARDENT SUPPORTERS OF NADER, AND THERE IS ALOT OF
>>OVERLAP
>> > >IN
>> > > > > TERMS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE BASE OF SUPPORTERS.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -- original message-- Interesting, but one of David> Rothenburg's
>>main
>> > > > > errors (similar to what we've heard from> WBAI/naderites/greens
>>since
>> > >the
>> > > > > X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead with> Hitler (Lead is a
>> > >bullying
>> > > > > traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, but> not a fascist & to
>> > >call
>> > > > her
>> > > > > a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 &> Co.--though WBAI coup
>>is
>> > > > > certainly part of erotion of democracy in US),> According to
>> > >Rothenberg,
>> > > > the
>> > > > > #1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, while>
>>Bush2/Republican/REAL
>> > > > > FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of proper> historic
>> > >analysis)
>> > > > > even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that WBAI's> support
>>of
>> > > > Nader
>> > > > > helped throw the election to B2!!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Fred's Reply:  I did not listen to David Rothenberg's talk, where,
>>by
>> > >the
>> > > > > way, heannounces that he maynever return because he is likely to
>>be
>> > >fired
>> > > > > for saying what he was saying.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- SINCE THIS IS OUR FIRST EXCHANGE, LET ME
>>REITERATE
>> > >UP
>> > > > > FRONT MY UNBENDING, BUT CRITICAL, SUPPORT FOR THE EXILE COMMUNITY
>>AT
>> > >WBAI.
>> > > > > WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING THERE IS A TRAVESTY AND AN ASSAULT ON
>> > >DEMOCRACY,
>> > > > AS
>> > > > > WBAI HAS BEEN A GREAT AND NECESSARY PUBLIC INSTITUTION.  & TO BE
>>SURE,
>> > >I
>> > > > > HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT I CAN TO SHOW THAT SUPPORT, (DISPENSING
>> > >INFORMATION,
>> > > > > ATTENDING RALLIES, MAKING PHONE CALLS), THOUGH IT NEVER FEELS LIKE
>> > >ENOUGH
>> > > > > WHEN EVERY WEEK ANOTHER IMPORTANT VOICE IS SILENCED....)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Fred's: Ido agree withDavid on the point that the methods used by
>> > >Utrice
>> > > > > Leid are common to thefascists (suppression ofspeech,
>> > >intimidation/public
>> > > > > humiliation, false claims of theft/violence andconstant
>> > >personalattacks.
>> > >
>> > > > U.
>> > > > > Leid also installed an 8 camera audio-video serveillance
>> > >systemcomplete
>> > > > > withcard-key entry system which makes Rykers Island look low tech.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(I HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH DRAWING COMPARISONS TO THE
>> > >METHODS
>> > > > USED
>> > > > > TO LOCK OUT THE DISSENTING VOICES WITH 'AUTHORITARIAN' OR
>> > >'TOTALITARIAN'
>> > > > > METHODS ASSOCIATED WITH A CORPORATE TAKE-OVER, BUT 'FASCISM' HAS A
>> > >VERY
>> > > > > SPECIFIC MEANING...MY ARGUEMENT WAS IS THAT UTRICE LEID HERSELF
>>HAS
>> > >BEEN
>> > > > > LABELED A 'FASCIST' WITH THE SAME SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION THAT
>> > >CHIDED
>> > > > > SOME OF US DURING THE ELECTION FOR POINTING TO THE DANGER OF THE
>> > > > BUSH2CREW,
>> > > > > THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT & CORPORATE FASCISTS (MORE ON THAT BELOW)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Fred's: I also agreethat the DemocraticParty has betrayed the
>>American
>> > > > > working class and is now dominated by people whoare doing
>>thebidding
>> > >of
>> > > > very
>> > > > > large corporations and global finance interests.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- ONLY SOME KIND OF CONFUSION THAT THE DEM'S EVER
>> > >SERVED
>> > > > > THE INTEREST OF THE AMREICAN W.C. WOULD LEAD ANYONE TO THINK THAT
>>THEY
>> > > > HAVE
>> > > > > SINCE BETRAYED THEM.  THE DEM. PARTY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BOURGEOIS
>> > >PARTY,
>> > > > AND
>> > > > > HAS ALWAYS BEEN DOMINATED BY PEOPLE DOING BIDDING OF LARGE
>> > >CORPORATIONS.
>> > > > > EVEN ROOSEVELT, WHO "SAVED CAPITIALISM FROM THE CAPITALISTS".  OUR
>> > > > ARGUMENT
>> > > > > HERE, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE ROOSEVELT THAN HITLER.
>> > >THE
>> > > > > GREENS HELPED BRING US WHO?....WHAT DID ROTHENBURG SAY ABOUT
>>SWINGING
>> > >THE
>> > > > > VOTE TO BUSH, AND WHY WERE THE REPUBLICANS RUNNING NADER ADS
>>DURING
>> > >THE
>> > > > > CAMPAIGN?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Fred's: The fact that Amy Goodman reported on Nader does not mean
>>that
>> > > > WBAI
>> > > > > was a station controlled by the Greens.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(IT WAS A DOMINANT TREND)
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -- original message-- There's a deep imbalance> of perspective
>>that
>> > >needs
>> > > > to
>> > > > > be corrected here in terms of the Green Party> histortic role in
>>2001,
>> > > > > causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and Rep's> as no worse.
>> > > > > (Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green voting>
>>base!!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Fred's Reply:  The Dems are not a threat to the Greens, the Greens
>>did
>> > >not
>> > > > > defeat Al Gore.  Al Gore and the DNC and massive
>>corporate-sponsored
>> > > > > campaigning turned off voters and defeated Al Gore.  Half of all
>> > >registers
>> > > > > don't vote.  Half a billion dollars worth of
>>corporatecontributions
>> > >did
>> > > > not
>> > > > > change that.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(HOLY MACKERAL! AL GORE WON! THIS IS WHAT I MEAN WHEN
>>I
>> > >SAY
>> > > > THE
>> > > > > GREENS AS WELL AS MUCH OF THE, DARE I SAY, PETIT-BOURG 'LEFT', DE
>> > >FACTO,
>> > > > > GIVE BUSH2 & THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT A FREE PASS.  RECALL THAT WHEN
>>THE
>> > > > > ELECTION WAS BEING STOLEN IN FLORIDA & BY D.C.'S OBSCENE COURT,
>>NOT
>> > >FROM
>> > > > > GORE, MIND YOU, BUT FROM THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO DID VOTE, THE
>> > >NADER
>> > > > > SUPPORTERS WENT WHERE?  BACK TO SEATTLE FOR "GLOBALIZATION
>>PROTEST,
>> > >PART
>> > > > > II"- UNFORTUNATELY, NADER AND THE GREENS ALLOWED THEIR,
>>MORE-OR-LESS
>> > >WELL
>> > > > > INTENDED, MAINLY WHITE & MIDDLE-CLASS, CONSTITUENCY BELIEVE THAT
>>IT
>> > >WAS
>> > > > > BETTER TO *PROTEST* GLOBAL IMPERIALISM THAN TO *SEIZE POWER* FROM
>>ITS
>> > >MOST
>> > > > > JINGOISTIC, BACKWARD,& REACTIONARY REPRESENTATIVES (ie: the
>> > >f-f-FASCISTS)
>> > > > AS
>> > > > > THEY WERE BUSY UNDERMINING THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL VOTE, TRAMPLING
>>ON
>> > >THE
>> > > > > VOTER RIGHTS ACT OF 1964, AND THROWING THE 13TH, 14TH, & 15TH
>> > >AMMENDMENTS
>> > > > > OUT THE SCARY WINDOW--ALL OF WHICH, OF COURSE, AFFECT THE POOREST
>>AND
>> > > > > OPPRESSED NATIONALISTIES MOST AND FIRST.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -- original message-- To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, suburban
>> > > > Montclair
>> > > > > was there, but> not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., let
>> > >alone
>> > > > the
>> > > > > working class> from any town)  This same opportunism causes the
>>P.B.,
>> > >esp.
>> > > > > on the left, to> think that only when it comes for THEM, then it's
>> > >worthy
>> > > > of
>> > > > > the name> fascism!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Fred's Reply:  Actually, Ralph Nader did have some very large
>>popular
>> > > > > rallies around the country that were not covered by the mass
>>medias.
>> > >It's
>> > > > a
>> > > > > bitch to try to be prez without money and free publicity from the
>> > > > corporate
>> > > > > medias.  WBAI was doing what it's mission states: air the voices
>>of
>> > > > dissent
>> > > > > that are not presented anywhere else.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(AS WBAI SHOULD, NO DOUBT...BUT THE PROBLEM AGAIN WITH
>>THE
>> > > > GREEN
>> > > > > PARTY STRATEGY IS THAT THEY HAVE WANTED THE HEAD WITHOUT BUILDING
>>THE
>> > > > BODY.
>> > > > > WELL BEFORE NADER CAME STROLLING, LA-DI-DA, INTO THE ELECTION
>>CAMPAIGN
>> > > > SOME
>> > > > > TIME LATE- WAY BACK DURING THE PRIMARY SEASON, "UNITY & STRUGGLE"
>> > >ISSUED
>> > > > THE
>> > > > > CALL TO FORM A 'LEFT-BLOC' UNITED FRONT TO "MARCH SEPERATELY,
>>STRIKE
>> > > > > TOGETHER" AGAINST THE FAR-RIGHT IN GERNERAL,  TO PUSH BRADLEY TO
>>THE
>> > >LEFT
>> > > > IN
>> > > > > OPPOSITION TO GORE, AND TO AIM SPECIFIC BLOWS AT, FOR INSTANCE,
>>THE
>> > >CLOSED
>> > > > > BOURGEOIS DEBATE FORUM AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE (IMAGINE!).  BUT
>>ALSO
>> > >TO
>> > > > > RUN CAMPAIGNS WHERE WE CAN WIN! (CONCRETELY: WE HAD A CITY COUNCIL
>> > >RACE
>> > >IN
>> > > > > NEW BRUNSWICK IN 2000 WHERE WE UNITED WITH GREENS ON A "PEOPLES'
>> > > > DEMOCRACY"
>> > > > > CAMPAIGN, & NOW WE ARE BACKING RAS BARAKA2002 FOR CITY COUNCIL IN
>> > >NEWARK.)
>> > > > > BUT LOOK! HERE COME THE NJGREENS AGAIN, UNCRITICALLY, THREATENING
>>WITH
>> > >THE
>> > > > > SAME BLUNDER THAT BROUGHT US B2, NOW IN AN ABSOLUTELY UNWINABLE
>> > > > GUBENETORIAL
>> > > > > RACE IN NJ, DECLARING THAT THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
>> > >CENTRIST-PUPPET
>> > > > > MCGREEVY AND FAR-RIGHT IDEOLOGUE SCHUNDLER, OR AT LEAST NOT ENOUGH
>>FOR
>> > >THE
>> > > > > NJGREENS TO INSTEAD ENDORSE A LEFT-BLOC UNITED FRONT
>>STRATEGY-THEIR
>> > > > PROBLEM
>> > > > > (WHICH IS NOW OUR PROBLEM) IS THAT THEY WANT TO GO IT ALONE,
>>RATHER
>> > >THAN
>> > > > > JOINING IN A UNITED FRONT TO RUN CAMPAIGNS  WHERE WE CAN WIN, AND
>>YES,
>> > > > > UNITING AGAINST THE WORSE EVIL IN THE SHORT-TERM.
>>(BUSH/SCHUNDLER)
>> > > > > OPPORTUNISM IS ESSENTIALLY SACRIFICING THE LONG-TERM GOAL FOR THE
>> > >SHORT
>> > > > > TERM.  THIS IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH I APPLY THE TERM TO THE GREEN
>> > >PARTY
>> > > > > STRATEGY.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -- original message-- Yet, how many more times will we hear many
>>of
>> > >the
>> > > > same
>> > > > > people say,> "It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real
>> > >fascists)
>> > > > > because it will> only strengthen the resisitance"Reply:  Someone
>>said
>> > > > that?
>> > > > > Who? David Rothenberg?  Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar in>
>>the
>> > > > > 1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending Amy
>> > >Goodman>
>> > > > &
>> > > > > Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to this
>>mess.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Fred's Reply:  What led to this mess is the Corporation for Public
>> > > > > Broadcasting funding which allowed board members from large
>> > >corporations
>> > > > to
>> > > > > be named to the Pacifica Board and a Series of executives with
>> > >connections
>> > > > > with the Clinton administration to take over Pacifica and
>>undertake
>> > >its
>> > > > > destruction.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHERE THE DOMINANT
>>TREND
>> > >OF
>> > > > > GREEN SUPPORT AT THE OLD WBAI AND THE GREEN PARTY ITSELF, IF NOT
>>DE
>> > >JURY
>> > > > > THEN DE FACTO, ESPOUSE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS A GREATER
>>THREAT
>> > >TO
>> > > > THEM
>> > > > > THAN THE REPUBLICAN AND FAR-RIGHT.  THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE AN
>> > >INTRIGUING
>> > > > > CASE TO BE MADE THAT UTRICE LEID & CO. REPRESENT THE STRONG-ARM OF
>>A
>> > > > > DEMOCRATIC PARTY TAKE-OVER AND 'NPR'-ING OF WBAI (& WE ALL KNOW
>>THAT
>> > > > > CORPORATE 'UNDERWRITING' IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER) AGAIN, AS I
>>SAID,
>> > >ONLY
>> > > > > THE CONFUSED NOTION THAT THE BOURGEOISIE'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY EVER
>> > >WORKED
>> > >IN
>> > > > > THE TRUE INTERESTS OF THE W.C. WOULD STIR UP THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS
>> > > > INDIGNATION
>> > > > > THAT FOLLOWS BETRAYAL.  BUT WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THIS TAKE-OVER OF
>> > >WBAI
>> > > > DOES
>> > > > > NOT EXIST IN ISOLATION FROM THE CORPORATE TAKE-OVER OF ALL SPHERES
>>OF
>> > > > PUBLIC
>> > > > > LIFE & CULTURE?  HOW LONG HAS NPR BEEN RUNNIN LEXUS ADS AFTER ALL?
>> > >HOW
>> > > > > ABOUT THE COOPTATION OF HIP-HOP?  JAZZ?  THE BLUES?  IF YOU READ
>>AMIRI
>> > > > > BARAKA'S RECENT SLAMMING OF THE ENSUING COOPTATION OF SLAM-POETRY,
>> > >YOU'LL
>> > > > > SEE THE SAME TREND.  THIS IS AS OLD AS CONSTANTINE'S "CONVERSION"
>>TO
>> > > > > CHRISTIANITY.  THE DIFFERENCE WITH WBAI IS THAT IT'S SUCH A VITAL
>> > > > COMPONENT
>> > > > > OF THE REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRATIC STRUGGLE AND LOSING IT AS A
>>RESOURCE
>> > >IS
>> > > > > STILL BIZARRELY UNTHINKABLE.  BUT SO WHAT IF WE CAN AGREE THAT THE
>> > > > DEMOCRATS
>> > > > > ARE THE IMMEDIATE ASSASSINES.  THIS DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE
>>FACT
>> > >THAT
>> > > > > WHILE IMPERIALISM IS TAKING OVER MORE AND MORE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS
>> > >(BTW,
>> > > > MR.
>> > > > > JERRY COLEMAN- SCHUNDLER WANTS TO PRIVATIZE LIBRARIES!!) THE
>>**ENTIRE
>> > > > > POLITICAL SPECTRUM** HAS SHIFTED RIGHT.  NOT JUST, SIMPLY, AND/OR
>>ONLY
>> > >THE
>> > > > > DEMOCRATS, VIA NEW-DEM CLINTON, AS THE GREENS PROFESS WHEN THEY
>> > >SUGGEST
>> > > > THE
>> > > > > MORPHING OF THE TWO PARTIES!  THIS IS OBJECTIVE AND IRREFUTABLE,
>>ONE
>> > >WOULD
>> > > > > THINK.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Fred's: David Rothenberg knows.  Al Lewis knows.  Bob Lederer,
>>Robert
>> > > > > Knight, Juan Gonzales, Deepa Fernandes, Mimi Rosenberg, Verna
>>Avery
>> > >Brown,
>> > > > > Mario Murillo, Ken Nash and Bernard White's Wake Up Call's crew
>>know.
>> > >The
>> > > > > democratic party will not save us.  They are running the same
>>national
>> > > > > security state and prison/military industrial complex with the
>>same
>> > > > motives
>> > > > > of fear, greed and hubris than their republican friends.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(YES, YES.  INOTHERWORDS, THEY ARE ALL IMERIALISTS.
>>LET'S
>> > > > CALL
>> > > > > IT WHAT IT IS.)
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Fred's: Wake up Matt,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > (PRESENTE!)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > WBAI and Pacifica were the ALTERNATIVE RADIO.  After that, yes,
>>the
>> > > > fascist
>> > > > > state will have silenced us and few Democrats will have said a
>>thing.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(AGREED.  NOW LET US UNITE TO:RIP DOWN THE CONFEDERATE
>> > > > > FLAG!ABOLISH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!BEAT BACK SCHUNDLER!SEIZE POWER
>> > > > > EVERYWHERE THAT REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY CAN ADVANCE!AND, FINALLY,
>> > >UTELIZE
>> > > > > REASON & SCIENCE AS WELL AS PASSION....IN THE STRUGGLE FOR
>> > >NITY  -MATTHEW
>> > > > > SMITH)
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
>> > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>> > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > > > > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > > > poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > IF YOU CONTINUE TO THINK AS YOU ALWAYS THOUGHT, YOU WILL CONTINUE TO GET
>>WHAT YOU ALWAYS GOT!
>> >
>> > VISIT THE ONE PEOPLE'S PROJECT WEBSITE:
>> > http://www.onepeople.mysticalzone.net
>> >
>> > ALSO VISIT OUR IRC CHANNEL:
>> > #oprchat at dalnet
>> >
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > onepeoplesproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
>IF YOU CONTINUE TO THINK AS YOU ALWAYS THOUGHT, YOU WILL CONTINUE TO GET WHAT 
YOU ALWAYS GOT!
>
>VISIT THE ONE PEOPLE'S PROJECT WEBSITE:
>http://www.onepeople.mysticalzone.net
>
>ALSO VISIT OUR IRC CHANNEL:
>#oprchat at dalnet
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>onepeoplesproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1993
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-31 00:00:12
Subject:[PROLIBERTAD] Puerto Rican Political Prisoner Freed!!
Message:

Puerto Rico Party Leader Freed
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 12:25 p.m. ET

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) -- Puerto Rican independence leader Ruben Berrios
was freed Thursday after completing a four-month jail sentence for
trespassing on U.S. Navy lands in a protest against bombing exercises on
Vieques island.

Civil rights leader Rev. Al Sharpton was among hundreds on hand to greet
Berrios, who is president of the Puerto Rican
Independence Party. Berrios urged widespread protests to put
pressure on the Navy.

``Life must be made impossible for the U.S. government,'' Berrios said.
``There in New York, in Washington, in Florida, we must open that bridge 
with
more momentum, wisdom and strength.''

``This man has shown what great leadership is all about,''
Sharpton said. ``We pledge to stand with him.''

Berrios, 62, said he felt ``very grateful and very enthusiastic.''

President Bush has pledged that Navy exercises on Vieques will end in 2003,
but activists are calling for an immediate halt. Opponents of the training
say it poses health hazards and infringes upon the rights of the island's
9,100 residents -- accusations the Navy denies.

While many Puerto Ricans agree with Berrios that the bombing
exercise should end now, only a tiny percentage of Puerto Ricans support
independence for the U.S. territory, which Berrios supports.

The current governor, Sila Calderon, favors the Caribbean island's current
commonwealth status.






_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1994
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-08-31 01:38:03
Subject:Register Voters -
Message:

the thing for us to do is register our cities to vote.
we must demand voting rights for all!
who is afraid of the peoples vote? the peoples enemy.

we must develop plans and build our electoral organization, the united front 
against imperialism, and community base around city wide voter 
registration/education/mobilization efforts.

arrive at 808 South 10th Street Newark @
                 9:30 am Every Saturday
                 2:00 pm Every Sunday

arrive at NB public library on Livingston Ave.
                 Peoples Campaign Meeting followed by canvassing
                 2:00 pm Saturday September 8

                 3:00 pm Sunday September 9


Join the coalition for peoples democracy to immediately carry out these 
tasks contact -
                for Newark rasjuabaraka@...
                for New Brunswick can_bush@...

focus of unity should be weakening imperialism and strengthening the people 
democratic working class position.
therefore our practice should openly target republicans and right wing 
sexist/supremacist positions and candidates. while the peoples forces win 
the cities we shall not be fools to give the right wing the state.
- Sink Schundler -
the response from the community is well beyond this analysis

overall our campaigns will not organize anything unless the practice of 
registration/education/mobilation in Newark & New Brunswick flourishes.

hugerford can save your breath until you register voters as far as i'm 
concerned he's slightly altered the boycott lie from 96' and still hasn't 
accepted criticism or made self critical analysis - a child learns faster 
only a self inflated person sees no mistake in themselves

the cops will be getting off easier and easier and our communties don't 
vote. New Brunswick has 28% voter turnout - lowest in the county, NB also 
has the worst schools in the county. how bout newark, camden, trenton, 
jersey city, patterson, atlantic city

eye hogan & kenna

clipboards available upon request
joe smith






>From: dbh <dbh@...>
>To: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>,    nbpeoplescampaign 
><nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>,    onepeoplesproject 
><onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
>CC: amirib <amirib@...>,    jmodibo <jmodibo@...>,    
>nbpeoplescampaign <nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>,    
>poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [onepeoplesproject] Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, 
>Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
>Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:42:23 -0400
>
>Yes, Joe, you're right - Cliff's note isn't a response to mine, it isn't an
>analysis of anything, but it IS a fraud. Glad you pointed it out.
>
> >===== Original Message From "joseph smith" <can_bush@...> =====
> >don't call it what it isn't -
> >what is it FRAUD?
> >
> >joe smith
> >
> >
> >>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> >>Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
> >>To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>,
> >><nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
> >>CC: <nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>, 
><onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>,
> >><amirib@...>, <jmodibo@...>
> >>Subject: Re: [onepeoplesproject] Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg,
> >>Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
> >>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:54:49 -0400
> >>
> >>This is neither a response to my remarks nor an analysis.
> >>
> >>". . . there is no slander in an allowed fool, though he do nothing but
> >>rail"
> >>-Twelfth Night
> >>
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
> >>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
> >>Cc: <nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>; 
><onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>;
> >><amirib@...>; <jmodibo@...>
> >>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:31 PM
> >>Subject: [onepeoplesproject] Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, 
>Waxing
> >>Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, Fascists
> >>
> >>
> >> > all eyes on hunger-fraud the "judas-goat".
> >> >
> >> > the "first thing to do", under the circumstances, is to keep the
> >>"butcher"
> >> > out of "recognized" political power, i.e. governor, president...
> >> >
> >> > this means now: smash schundler! keep mcgreasy in the fire!
> >> > as we build the necessary peoples' political organization to defeat 
>them
> >> > both.
> >> >
> >> > you shd know that hunger-fraud encouraged splitting the anti-bush 
>vote
> >>in
> >> > '00, endorsing nadir's folly,
> >> >
> >> > & encouraged splitting the anti-dole vote in '96, saying the
> >>contradictions
> >> > between clinton & dole were "illusions", and endorsing a "boycott".
> >> >
> >> > objectively (which matters most) this is the "butcher's" best 
>strategy
> >>for
> >> > the peoples' forces.
> >> >
> >> > science, not schemes.
> >> >
> >> > cliff
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> >> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >> > >To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, 
><nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>,
> >> > ><siddharta5@...>, <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> >> > >CC: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>, <amirib@...>,
> >> > ><MeadHajduk@...>, <hajdukmi@...>, <jmodibo@...>,
> >> > ><Paul4sure@...>
> >> > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred,
> >>Matthew,
> >> > >Howard, Fascists
> >> > >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:28:34 -0400
> >> > >
> >> > >You bring up a lot of points, Howard. Let me respond to a few.
> >> > >
> >> > >Your historic reference to Hitler is factually inaccurate. The 
>Hit-man
> >>was
> >> > >never elected. He was appointed to the chancellorship of Germany 
>when
> >>the
> >> > >Nazi vote was declining and class struggle was acute and rising. The
> >> > >Communist Party was large and active, the most consistent opponent 
>of
> >>the
> >> > >Nazis. The bourgeoisie turned to fascism because the outbreak of
> >>revolution
> >> > >was too likely for them to continue with parliamentary democracy.
> >> > >
> >> > >Hitler was able to consolidate his grip because the right-wing 
>Social
> >> > >Democrats (Gerry Schroeder's direct political ancestors) caved in to
> >>the
> >> > >Nazis and broke ranks with the working class forces. They were labor
> >>union
> >> > >bureaucrats like the AFL-CIO bureaucracy that is so slavishly tied 
>to
> >>the
> >> > >Democrats.
> >> > >
> >> > >What we need are firm and consistent political organizations that 
>serve
> >>the
> >> > >people, not the bourgeoisie. The Democrats have always impeded this
> >>kind
> >>of
> >> > >organization. If the Republicans are the butcher, the Dems are the
> >>Judas
> >> > >goat that leads the people to the slaughter. In such a situation the
> >>first
> >> > >thing to do is to get people to stop following the Judas goat. If 
>the
> >>goat
> >> > >is no longer effective then even the butcher is going to find his 
>whole
> >>act
> >> > >no longer works. In the case of the NJ Gov election, McGreevey 
>doesn't
> >>want
> >> > >voters to have a choice to his left. But neither does Schundler! 
>That's
> >> > >where someone like Coleman can play a part.
> >> > >
> >> > >We need the same things today that the people have always needed: a
> >>genuine
> >> > >revolutionary party of the working class, that is, a Communist Party
> >>that
> >> > >can alone give real and consistent leadership against the 
>bourgeoisie;
> >>and,
> >> > >a broad united-front electoral and "legal" party (legality is always 
>a
> >>very
> >> > >dodgy thing under capitalism) to break the grip of  Repubocrats. But
> >>you
> >> > >are
> >> > >right on the main point: we need a revolution. This can only be 
>brought
> >> > >about by the working class. That is why we need the Communist Party
> >>(i.e.,
> >> > >a
> >> > >real one.)
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >----- Original Message -----
> >> > >From: "Howard Nelson" <howardnelson@...>
> >> > >To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>; 
><nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>;
> >> > ><siddharta5@...>; <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> >> > >Cc: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>; <amirib@...>;
> >> > ><MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>; <jmodibo@...>;
> >> > ><Paul4sure@...>
> >> > >Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:12 PM
> >> > >Subject: [poprogress] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred, Matthew, 
>Howard,
> >> > >Fascists
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > I hope these are my last mumblings on this subject.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > IF nothing else, candidates such as Nader and Coleman help to 
>bring
> >>up
> >> > > > issues most critical to the well-being of the community. When 
>their
> >> > >message
> >> > > > reaches the public, it serves to hold the leading contenders' 
>feet
> >>to
> >> > >the
> >> > > > fire.
> >> > > > The major point of dispute is whether a 3rd party candidate will
> >>cause
> >> > >[has
> >> > > > caused] the loss of the least crappy of the two leading 
>contenders.
> >> > > > If we all keep voting for Gores and McGreevys, election after
> >>election,
> >> > >how
> >> > > > does it suddenly become possible for a true progressive to ever 
>win
> >>--
> >> > >the
> >> > > > public will not have heard of that person before?!
> >> > > >
> >> > > > In the absence of a Hitler-like main contender, a rational path
> >>could
> >>be
> >> > > > to put adequate resources into supporting progressive Assembly,
> >> > > > Senate and Council candidates -- who control legislation, and 
>take
> >>the
> >> > > > Chinese long view of the Governorship by continuing to put up 
>worthy
> >> > > > candidates for that office, even tho it may allow the greater of 
>2
> >>evils
> >> > >to
> >> > > > win. If the PEOPLE don't get the message of their bad decision in
> >>short
> >> > > > order, then the people are the problem. Meanwhile the 3rd party
> >> > >candidate
> >> > > > and party should keep up the promotion of their better ideas 
>BETWEEN
> >> > > > elections to keep the education of the public rolling and to 
>prime
> >>the
> >> > > > public awareness for the next election.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On the national scene, either Nader and the Green Party have 
>failed
> >>to
> >> > >TRY
> >> > > > do this since the Supreme Court COUP, or the masses have not 
>gotten
> >>the
> >> > > > Green Party's continuing message
> >> > > > for other reasons [lack of GP funds, ostracized from public media
> >> > >outlets,
> >> > > > ...]
> >> > > >
> >> > > > If it's a Hitler vs a Crap in a close race next time, it would be
> >> > >suicide
> >> > >to
> >> > > > vote for 3rd, 4th, 5th party candidates. Germany learned and 
>taught
> >>us
> >> > >that
> >> > > > back in the late 1920's and 1930's. Short of that kind of choice, 
>a
> >> > >worthy
> >> > > > 3rd party candidate exposes and infects the general populace with 
>a
> >> > >better
> >> > > > TRUTH, exposes lies, and proposes plans for a better way.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > In the absence of reasonably detailed plans [including sources of
> >> > >funding
> >> > > > for the plan] presented to support the progressive program 
>planks,
> >>the
> >> > > > public should assume the candidate is so full of crap that it's
> >> > >overflowing
> >> > > > as political blather, sentimental rather than hard-headed 
>sensible..
> >> > > >
> >> > > > In a democracy I don't see a better, less painful way to get the 
>job
> >> > >done
> >> > > > after decades of political neglect BY THE VOTING AGE PUBLIC. If 
>we
> >> > > > externalize the problem onto rotten politicians, we compound the
> >>problem
> >> > >by
> >> > > > not owning it as OUR personal responsibility or lack thereof in
> >>being
> >> > > > participants in our own democratic government.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > We need a gahdam Revolution in what it means to be a citizen; 
>maybe
> >>the
> >> > > > coming economic collapse will kick us all in the cortex and 
>colon.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I applaud and admire your continuing efforts to register, educate
> >>and
> >> > >get
> >> > > > the vote out.
> >> > > > If I am not a complete slimeball, I'll join you on Sat and/or
> >>Sundays.
> >> > > > Regarding Leid's management techniques and Fascism as applied to
> >> > >business,
> >> > > > 'If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and floats like 
>a
> >> > >duck,
> >> > > > and flies like a duck, and ducks the truth like a duck, and looks
> >>like
> >> > >duck,
> >> > > > is it really a ventriliquising goose, or is it PERHAPS a duck?'
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Up justice.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Horrid
> >> > > >
> >> > > > P.S. How can we believe the latest poll of 395 people as 
>indicating
> >> > >McGreevy
> >> > > > has a very large lead over Schundler, when we don't know whether 
>the
> >> > > > demographics of the 395 polled match the demographics of the
> >>millions
> >>of
> >> > > > expected-to-vote citizens. I admit my blatant ignorance of
> >>statistics,
> >> > >but
> >> > > > how can they calculate a margin of error without knowing the true
> >> > >outcome
> >> > >of
> >> > > > the election against which to compare their statistical sample of
> >>395?
> >> > >What
> >> > > > are all of the assumptions made in this report? Are we being 
>lulled
> >>into
> >> > > > complacency like Dewey was in his race against Truman?
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> >> > > > To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>; <siddharta5@...>;
> >> > > > <savewbai@yahoogroups.com>
> >> > > > Cc: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>;
> >><onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>;
> >> > > > <amirib@...>; <MeadHajduk@...>; <hajdukmi@...>;
> >> > > > <jmodibo@...>; <Paul4sure@...>
> >> > > > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:45 PM
> >> > > > Subject: [poprogress] Response to Fred & Howard Re: Rothenberg's
> >> > >analysis
> >> > >of
> >> > > > the fascist rule and WBAI
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > (I WISH TO THANK FRED N.(NJFRIENDS) & HOWARD (P.O.P.) FOR
> >>RESPONDING
> >> > >TO
> >> > >MY
> >> > > > > POST RE: ROTHENBERG'S ADDRESS OF SITUATION AT WBAI.  IT'S
> >>ENCOURAGING
> >> > >THAT
> >> > > > > NOT EVERYONE THINKS THIS DEBATE ALSO INVOLVING THE 2000 
>NATIONAL
> >> > >ELECTIONS
> >> > > > > IS EITHER FINISHED, FUTILE, OR SIMPLY A THREAT TO THEIR
> >>ASPIRATIONS.
> >> > >I'VE
> >> > > > > DONE MY BEST TO RESPOND TO BOTH ARGUMENTS, BY WAY OF FRED'S
> >> > >LETTER--AND
> >> > >TO
> >> > > > > HOWARD I WOULD ONLY ADD THAT WHILE YOUR LETTER WAS VERY 
>ARTICULATE
> >>AND
> >> > > > > MOVINGLY PASSIONATE, YOU NEGLECTED SOME OF THE MOST CRITICAL
> >>ISSUES
> >>I
> >> > > > > RAISED.  MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS BELOW -MATTHEW SMITH, UNITY &
> >> > >STRUGGLE)
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Fred N. wrote:
> >> > > > > Friends,This post was sent to the friends of wbai - NJ list 
>which
> >>is
> >> > >not
> >> > >a
> >> > > > > discussionboard but anannouncement board which I moderate.I 
>will
> >>not
> >> > >post
> >> > > > it
> >> > > > > but will respond below as interspersed in CAPS:Fred N. (NJ)-
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > -- original message-- Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...>
> >>wrote:>>
> >> > >This
> >> > > > is
> >> > > > > an interesting commentary drawing associations between WBAI's>
> >>support
> >> > >of
> >> > > > > Nader and changes that have occured at the station since Bush 
>&>
> >>the
> >> > >right
> >> > > > > stole the 2001 election.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Fred's Reply: There has never been an endorsement of Ralph 
>Nader
> >>by
> >> > >WBAI
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- WHILE THERE ARE, NO WERE, MANY DIVERSE 
>VOICES
> >>AT
> >> > >WBAI,
> >> > > > > THERE WAS CLEARLY A DOMINANT TREND AMONGST THE NOW 'BANNED AND
> >>FIRED'
> >> > >WHO
> >> > > > > WERE THE MOST ARDENT SUPPORTERS OF NADER, AND THERE IS ALOT OF
> >>OVERLAP
> >> > >IN
> >> > > > > TERMS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE BASE OF SUPPORTERS.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > -- original message-- Interesting, but one of David> 
>Rothenburg's
> >>main
> >> > > > > errors (similar to what we've heard from> WBAI/naderites/greens
> >>since
> >> > >the
> >> > > > > X-Mas coup) is to associate Utrice Lead with> Hitler (Lead is a
> >> > >bullying
> >> > > > > traitor and self-aggrandizing opportunist, but> not a fascist & 
>to
> >> > >call
> >> > > > her
> >> > > > > a fascist takes the spotlight off Bush2 &> Co.--though WBAI 
>coup
> >>is
> >> > > > > certainly part of erotion of democracy in US),> According to
> >> > >Rothenberg,
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > > #1 enemy again is the Democratic Party, while>
> >>Bush2/Republican/REAL
> >> > > > > FASCISTS again get a pass (at least in terms of proper> 
>historic
> >> > >analysis)
> >> > > > > even while Rothenberg himself candidly admits that WBAI's> 
>support
> >>of
> >> > > > Nader
> >> > > > > helped throw the election to B2!!
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Fred's Reply:  I did not listen to David Rothenberg's talk, 
>where,
> >>by
> >> > >the
> >> > > > > way, heannounces that he maynever return because he is likely 
>to
> >>be
> >> > >fired
> >> > > > > for saying what he was saying.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- SINCE THIS IS OUR FIRST EXCHANGE, LET ME
> >>REITERATE
> >> > >UP
> >> > > > > FRONT MY UNBENDING, BUT CRITICAL, SUPPORT FOR THE EXILE 
>COMMUNITY
> >>AT
> >> > >WBAI.
> >> > > > > WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING THERE IS A TRAVESTY AND AN ASSAULT ON
> >> > >DEMOCRACY,
> >> > > > AS
> >> > > > > WBAI HAS BEEN A GREAT AND NECESSARY PUBLIC INSTITUTION.  & TO 
>BE
> >>SURE,
> >> > >I
> >> > > > > HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT I CAN TO SHOW THAT SUPPORT, (DISPENSING
> >> > >INFORMATION,
> >> > > > > ATTENDING RALLIES, MAKING PHONE CALLS), THOUGH IT NEVER FEELS 
>LIKE
> >> > >ENOUGH
> >> > > > > WHEN EVERY WEEK ANOTHER IMPORTANT VOICE IS SILENCED....)
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Fred's: Ido agree withDavid on the point that the methods used 
>by
> >> > >Utrice
> >> > > > > Leid are common to thefascists (suppression ofspeech,
> >> > >intimidation/public
> >> > > > > humiliation, false claims of theft/violence andconstant
> >> > >personalattacks.
> >> > >
> >> > > > U.
> >> > > > > Leid also installed an 8 camera audio-video serveillance
> >> > >systemcomplete
> >> > > > > withcard-key entry system which makes Rykers Island look low 
>tech.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(I HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH DRAWING COMPARISONS TO THE
> >> > >METHODS
> >> > > > USED
> >> > > > > TO LOCK OUT THE DISSENTING VOICES WITH 'AUTHORITARIAN' OR
> >> > >'TOTALITARIAN'
> >> > > > > METHODS ASSOCIATED WITH A CORPORATE TAKE-OVER, BUT 'FASCISM' 
>HAS A
> >> > >VERY
> >> > > > > SPECIFIC MEANING...MY ARGUEMENT WAS IS THAT UTRICE LEID HERSELF
> >>HAS
> >> > >BEEN
> >> > > > > LABELED A 'FASCIST' WITH THE SAME SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION 
>THAT
> >> > >CHIDED
> >> > > > > SOME OF US DURING THE ELECTION FOR POINTING TO THE DANGER OF 
>THE
> >> > > > BUSH2CREW,
> >> > > > > THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT & CORPORATE FASCISTS (MORE ON THAT BELOW)
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Fred's: I also agreethat the DemocraticParty has betrayed the
> >>American
> >> > > > > working class and is now dominated by people whoare doing
> >>thebidding
> >> > >of
> >> > > > very
> >> > > > > large corporations and global finance interests.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- ONLY SOME KIND OF CONFUSION THAT THE DEM'S 
>EVER
> >> > >SERVED
> >> > > > > THE INTEREST OF THE AMREICAN W.C. WOULD LEAD ANYONE TO THINK 
>THAT
> >>THEY
> >> > > > HAVE
> >> > > > > SINCE BETRAYED THEM.  THE DEM. PARTY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A 
>BOURGEOIS
> >> > >PARTY,
> >> > > > AND
> >> > > > > HAS ALWAYS BEEN DOMINATED BY PEOPLE DOING BIDDING OF LARGE
> >> > >CORPORATIONS.
> >> > > > > EVEN ROOSEVELT, WHO "SAVED CAPITIALISM FROM THE CAPITALISTS".  
>OUR
> >> > > > ARGUMENT
> >> > > > > HERE, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE ROOSEVELT THAN 
>HITLER.
> >> > >THE
> >> > > > > GREENS HELPED BRING US WHO?....WHAT DID ROTHENBURG SAY ABOUT
> >>SWINGING
> >> > >THE
> >> > > > > VOTE TO BUSH, AND WHY WERE THE REPUBLICANS RUNNING NADER ADS
> >>DURING
> >> > >THE
> >> > > > > CAMPAIGN?
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Fred's: The fact that Amy Goodman reported on Nader does not 
>mean
> >>that
> >> > > > WBAI
> >> > > > > was a station controlled by the Greens.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(IT WAS A DOMINANT TREND)
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > -- original message-- There's a deep imbalance> of perspective
> >>that
> >> > >needs
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > be corrected here in terms of the Green Party> histortic role 
>in
> >>2001,
> >> > > > > causing them to cast Dem's as main enemy and Rep's> as no 
>worse.
> >> > > > > (Apparently, because Dem's are biggest threat to Green voting>
> >>base!!
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Fred's Reply:  The Dems are not a threat to the Greens, the 
>Greens
> >>did
> >> > >not
> >> > > > > defeat Al Gore.  Al Gore and the DNC and massive
> >>corporate-sponsored
> >> > > > > campaigning turned off voters and defeated Al Gore.  Half of 
>all
> >> > >registers
> >> > > > > don't vote.  Half a billion dollars worth of
> >>corporatecontributions
> >> > >did
> >> > > > not
> >> > > > > change that.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(HOLY MACKERAL! AL GORE WON! THIS IS WHAT I MEAN 
>WHEN
> >>I
> >> > >SAY
> >> > > > THE
> >> > > > > GREENS AS WELL AS MUCH OF THE, DARE I SAY, PETIT-BOURG 'LEFT', 
>DE
> >> > >FACTO,
> >> > > > > GIVE BUSH2 & THE ACTUAL FAR-RIGHT A FREE PASS.  RECALL THAT 
>WHEN
> >>THE
> >> > > > > ELECTION WAS BEING STOLEN IN FLORIDA & BY D.C.'S OBSCENE COURT,
> >>NOT
> >> > >FROM
> >> > > > > GORE, MIND YOU, BUT FROM THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO DID VOTE, 
>THE
> >> > >NADER
> >> > > > > SUPPORTERS WENT WHERE?  BACK TO SEATTLE FOR "GLOBALIZATION
> >>PROTEST,
> >> > >PART
> >> > > > > II"- UNFORTUNATELY, NADER AND THE GREENS ALLOWED THEIR,
> >>MORE-OR-LESS
> >> > >WELL
> >> > > > > INTENDED, MAINLY WHITE & MIDDLE-CLASS, CONSTITUENCY BELIEVE 
>THAT
> >>IT
> >> > >WAS
> >> > > > > BETTER TO *PROTEST* GLOBAL IMPERIALISM THAN TO *SEIZE POWER* 
>FROM
> >>ITS
> >> > >MOST
> >> > > > > JINGOISTIC, BACKWARD,& REACTIONARY REPRESENTATIVES (ie: the
> >> > >f-f-FASCISTS)
> >> > > > AS
> >> > > > > THEY WERE BUSY UNDERMINING THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL VOTE, 
>TRAMPLING
> >>ON
> >> > >THE
> >> > > > > VOTER RIGHTS ACT OF 1964, AND THROWING THE 13TH, 14TH, & 15TH
> >> > >AMMENDMENTS
> >> > > > > OUT THE SCARY WINDOW--ALL OF WHICH, OF COURSE, AFFECT THE 
>POOREST
> >>AND
> >> > > > > OPPRESSED NATIONALISTIES MOST AND FIRST.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > -- original message-- To wit: when Nader spoke in Newark, 
>suburban
> >> > > > Montclair
> >> > > > > was there, but> not urban Newark grassroots, save for P.O.P., 
>let
> >> > >alone
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > > working class> from any town)  This same opportunism causes the
> >>P.B.,
> >> > >esp.
> >> > > > > on the left, to> think that only when it comes for THEM, then 
>it's
> >> > >worthy
> >> > > > of
> >> > > > > the name> fascism!
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Fred's Reply:  Actually, Ralph Nader did have some very large
> >>popular
> >> > > > > rallies around the country that were not covered by the mass
> >>medias.
> >> > >It's
> >> > > > a
> >> > > > > bitch to try to be prez without money and free publicity from 
>the
> >> > > > corporate
> >> > > > > medias.  WBAI was doing what it's mission states: air the 
>voices
> >>of
> >> > > > dissent
> >> > > > > that are not presented anywhere else.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(AS WBAI SHOULD, NO DOUBT...BUT THE PROBLEM AGAIN 
>WITH
> >>THE
> >> > > > GREEN
> >> > > > > PARTY STRATEGY IS THAT THEY HAVE WANTED THE HEAD WITHOUT 
>BUILDING
> >>THE
> >> > > > BODY.
> >> > > > > WELL BEFORE NADER CAME STROLLING, LA-DI-DA, INTO THE ELECTION
> >>CAMPAIGN
> >> > > > SOME
> >> > > > > TIME LATE- WAY BACK DURING THE PRIMARY SEASON, "UNITY & 
>STRUGGLE"
> >> > >ISSUED
> >> > > > THE
> >> > > > > CALL TO FORM A 'LEFT-BLOC' UNITED FRONT TO "MARCH SEPERATELY,
> >>STRIKE
> >> > > > > TOGETHER" AGAINST THE FAR-RIGHT IN GERNERAL,  TO PUSH BRADLEY 
>TO
> >>THE
> >> > >LEFT
> >> > > > IN
> >> > > > > OPPOSITION TO GORE, AND TO AIM SPECIFIC BLOWS AT, FOR INSTANCE,
> >>THE
> >> > >CLOSED
> >> > > > > BOURGEOIS DEBATE FORUM AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE (IMAGINE!).  
>BUT
> >>ALSO
> >> > >TO
> >> > > > > RUN CAMPAIGNS WHERE WE CAN WIN! (CONCRETELY: WE HAD A CITY 
>COUNCIL
> >> > >RACE
> >> > >IN
> >> > > > > NEW BRUNSWICK IN 2000 WHERE WE UNITED WITH GREENS ON A 
>"PEOPLES'
> >> > > > DEMOCRACY"
> >> > > > > CAMPAIGN, & NOW WE ARE BACKING RAS BARAKA2002 FOR CITY COUNCIL 
>IN
> >> > >NEWARK.)
> >> > > > > BUT LOOK! HERE COME THE NJGREENS AGAIN, UNCRITICALLY, 
>THREATENING
> >>WITH
> >> > >THE
> >> > > > > SAME BLUNDER THAT BROUGHT US B2, NOW IN AN ABSOLUTELY UNWINABLE
> >> > > > GUBENETORIAL
> >> > > > > RACE IN NJ, DECLARING THAT THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
> >> > >CENTRIST-PUPPET
> >> > > > > MCGREEVY AND FAR-RIGHT IDEOLOGUE SCHUNDLER, OR AT LEAST NOT 
>ENOUGH
> >>FOR
> >> > >THE
> >> > > > > NJGREENS TO INSTEAD ENDORSE A LEFT-BLOC UNITED FRONT
> >>STRATEGY-THEIR
> >> > > > PROBLEM
> >> > > > > (WHICH IS NOW OUR PROBLEM) IS THAT THEY WANT TO GO IT ALONE,
> >>RATHER
> >> > >THAN
> >> > > > > JOINING IN A UNITED FRONT TO RUN CAMPAIGNS  WHERE WE CAN WIN, 
>AND
> >>YES,
> >> > > > > UNITING AGAINST THE WORSE EVIL IN THE SHORT-TERM.
> >>(BUSH/SCHUNDLER)
> >> > > > > OPPORTUNISM IS ESSENTIALLY SACRIFICING THE LONG-TERM GOAL FOR 
>THE
> >> > >SHORT
> >> > > > > TERM.  THIS IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH I APPLY THE TERM TO THE 
>GREEN
> >> > >PARTY
> >> > > > > STRATEGY.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > -- original message-- Yet, how many more times will we hear 
>many
> >>of
> >> > >the
> >> > > > same
> >> > > > > people say,> "It's good to have Bush (like Giulliani & the real
> >> > >fascists)
> >> > > > > because it will> only strengthen the resisitance"Reply:  
>Someone
> >>said
> >> > > > that?
> >> > > > > Who? David Rothenberg?  Apparently, nobody told this to Weimar 
>in>
> >>the
> >> > > > > 1930's.  So, yes, we must save WBAI, starting with defending 
>Amy
> >> > >Goodman>
> >> > > > &
> >> > > > > Democracy Now!, but we must be very critical of what led to 
>this
> >>mess.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Fred's Reply:  What led to this mess is the Corporation for 
>Public
> >> > > > > Broadcasting funding which allowed board members from large
> >> > >corporations
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > be named to the Pacifica Board and a Series of executives with
> >> > >connections
> >> > > > > with the Clinton administration to take over Pacifica and
> >>undertake
> >> > >its
> >> > > > > destruction.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(FRED- THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHERE THE 
>DOMINANT
> >>TREND
> >> > >OF
> >> > > > > GREEN SUPPORT AT THE OLD WBAI AND THE GREEN PARTY ITSELF, IF 
>NOT
> >>DE
> >> > >JURY
> >> > > > > THEN DE FACTO, ESPOUSE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS A GREATER
> >>THREAT
> >> > >TO
> >> > > > THEM
> >> > > > > THAN THE REPUBLICAN AND FAR-RIGHT.  THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE AN
> >> > >INTRIGUING
> >> > > > > CASE TO BE MADE THAT UTRICE LEID & CO. REPRESENT THE STRONG-ARM 
>OF
> >>A
> >> > > > > DEMOCRATIC PARTY TAKE-OVER AND 'NPR'-ING OF WBAI (& WE ALL KNOW
> >>THAT
> >> > > > > CORPORATE 'UNDERWRITING' IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER) AGAIN, AS I
> >>SAID,
> >> > >ONLY
> >> > > > > THE CONFUSED NOTION THAT THE BOURGEOISIE'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY 
>EVER
> >> > >WORKED
> >> > >IN
> >> > > > > THE TRUE INTERESTS OF THE W.C. WOULD STIR UP THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS
> >> > > > INDIGNATION
> >> > > > > THAT FOLLOWS BETRAYAL.  BUT WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THIS TAKE-OVER 
>OF
> >> > >WBAI
> >> > > > DOES
> >> > > > > NOT EXIST IN ISOLATION FROM THE CORPORATE TAKE-OVER OF ALL 
>SPHERES
> >>OF
> >> > > > PUBLIC
> >> > > > > LIFE & CULTURE?  HOW LONG HAS NPR BEEN RUNNIN LEXUS ADS AFTER 
>ALL?
> >> > >HOW
> >> > > > > ABOUT THE COOPTATION OF HIP-HOP?  JAZZ?  THE BLUES?  IF YOU 
>READ
> >>AMIRI
> >> > > > > BARAKA'S RECENT SLAMMING OF THE ENSUING COOPTATION OF 
>SLAM-POETRY,
> >> > >YOU'LL
> >> > > > > SEE THE SAME TREND.  THIS IS AS OLD AS CONSTANTINE'S 
>"CONVERSION"
> >>TO
> >> > > > > CHRISTIANITY.  THE DIFFERENCE WITH WBAI IS THAT IT'S SUCH A 
>VITAL
> >> > > > COMPONENT
> >> > > > > OF THE REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRATIC STRUGGLE AND LOSING IT AS A
> >>RESOURCE
> >> > >IS
> >> > > > > STILL BIZARRELY UNTHINKABLE.  BUT SO WHAT IF WE CAN AGREE THAT 
>THE
> >> > > > DEMOCRATS
> >> > > > > ARE THE IMMEDIATE ASSASSINES.  THIS DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE
> >>FACT
> >> > >THAT
> >> > > > > WHILE IMPERIALISM IS TAKING OVER MORE AND MORE PUBLIC 
>INSTITUTIONS
> >> > >(BTW,
> >> > > > MR.
> >> > > > > JERRY COLEMAN- SCHUNDLER WANTS TO PRIVATIZE LIBRARIES!!) THE
> >>**ENTIRE
> >> > > > > POLITICAL SPECTRUM** HAS SHIFTED RIGHT.  NOT JUST, SIMPLY, 
>AND/OR
> >>ONLY
> >> > >THE
> >> > > > > DEMOCRATS, VIA NEW-DEM CLINTON, AS THE GREENS PROFESS WHEN THEY
> >> > >SUGGEST
> >> > > > THE
> >> > > > > MORPHING OF THE TWO PARTIES!  THIS IS OBJECTIVE AND 
>IRREFUTABLE,
> >>ONE
> >> > >WOULD
> >> > > > > THINK.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Fred's: David Rothenberg knows.  Al Lewis knows.  Bob Lederer,
> >>Robert
> >> > > > > Knight, Juan Gonzales, Deepa Fernandes, Mimi Rosenberg, Verna
> >>Avery
> >> > >Brown,
> >> > > > > Mario Murillo, Ken Nash and Bernard White's Wake Up Call's crew
> >>know.
> >> > >The
> >> > > > > democratic party will not save us.  They are running the same
> >>national
> >> > > > > security state and prison/military industrial complex with the
> >>same
> >> > > > motives
> >> > > > > of fear, greed and hubris than their republican friends.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(YES, YES.  INOTHERWORDS, THEY ARE ALL IMERIALISTS.
> >>LET'S
> >> > > > CALL
> >> > > > > IT WHAT IT IS.)
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Fred's: Wake up Matt,
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > (PRESENTE!)
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > WBAI and Pacifica were the ALTERNATIVE RADIO.  After that, yes,
> >>the
> >> > > > fascist
> >> > > > > state will have silenced us and few Democrats will have said a
> >>thing.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > MY RESPONSE:(AGREED.  NOW LET US UNITE TO:RIP DOWN THE 
>CONFEDERATE
> >> > > > > FLAG!ABOLISH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!BEAT BACK SCHUNDLER!SEIZE 
>POWER
> >> > > > > EVERYWHERE THAT REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY CAN ADVANCE!AND, 
>FINALLY,
> >> > >UTELIZE
> >> > > > > REASON & SCIENCE AS WELL AS PASSION....IN THE STRUGGLE FOR
> >> > >NITY  -MATTHEW
> >> > > > > SMITH)
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > 
>_________________________________________________________________
> >> > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
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> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
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> >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >> >
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>GET
> >>WHAT YOU ALWAYS GOT!
> >> >
> >> > VISIT THE ONE PEOPLE'S PROJECT WEBSITE:
> >> > http://www.onepeople.mysticalzone.net
> >> >
> >> > ALSO VISIT OUR IRC CHANNEL:
> >> > #oprchat at dalnet
> >> >
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> >
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> >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1996
Sender:"JOSEPH MOSLEY" <joemosley1@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-01 01:29:32
Subject:Fwd: [GreenMovement] Barrett's Strong Defense of Nader/LaDuke 2000
Message:



>From: Ben Manski <manski@...>
>Reply-To: GreenMovement@yahoogroups.com
>To: greenmovement@yahoogroups.com, greens@yahoogroups.com, 
>usgp-COO@...
>Subject: [GreenMovement] Barrett's Strong Defense of Nader/LaDuke 2000
>Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:47:12 -0500
>
>
>�Strategic Lessons of the 2000 Presidential Election:
>A Pro-Nader Perspective�
>
>Constellations, Volume 8, Number 3, September 2001, pp.348-363.
>
>Patrick S. Barrett
>Administrative Director
>A. E. Havens Center for the Study of Social Structure and Social Change
>University of Wisconsin-Madison
>Introduction
>
>The recent presidential election was a historically significant one for a 
>number of reasons. Perhaps the most obvious was the controversial manner in 
>which George W. Bush assumed office. Another reason, however, was the 
>division and rancor the election produced among supporters of Al Gore and 
>Ralph Nader. More than its effect on the outcome of the election itself, 
>the deeper significance of the Gore-Nader controversy was the debate over 
>political strategy that it generated on the left. It has been a long time 
>since the left has engaged in such a debate, and its occurrence should 
>therefore be seen as a positive development. At the same time, the fact 
>that U.S. progressives are largely unaccustomed to thinking strategically 
>may help to explain why the debate has been conducted at such a low level 
>of sophistication and with such little forthrightness, especially on the 
>part of those who backed Gore and the Democrats. Indeed, it is ironic that 
>the most common criticism of Nader supporters made by the backers of Gore  
>namely, that the former are strategically shortsighted, irresponsible, and 
>even destructive  may be much more accurately applied to themselves.
>What follows, then, is primarily intended as a critique of the pro-Gore 
>position. But it is also intended as a defense of the pro-Nader position, 
>which contains some of the essential elements of a long-term strategy for 
>bringing about real progressive change, even if not ultimately embodied in 
>Nader or the Greens. Both of these objectives can be accomplished by 
>addressing four fundamental and interrelated questions: (1) Where are we?; 
>(2) How did we get here?; (3) Where do we want to go?; and (4) How do we 
>get there? Together, these four questions are indispensable to any effort 
>aimed at devising a long-term strategy for progressive change. All four 
>questions, moreover, were nearly universally neglected, if not actively 
>avoided, by the backers of Gore and the Democrats.
>Where Are We?
>Beginning with this question is crucial, for if we do not engage in an 
>accurate assessment of our current circumstances, we have little chance of 
>moving forward, much less getting very far. Thus, before we determine where 
>we want to go, or the steps we need to take to get there, we need to 
>understand our point of departure. Clearly, there is insufficient space 
>here for more than a very cursory response to this question. The first and 
>most obvious observation, then, is that ours is an extremely inequitable 
>society. Indeed, among all the advanced economies of the world, the U.S. 
>has the most unequal distribution of wealth and income, the least economic 
>mobility, the longest hours logged by its workers, one of the highest rates 
>of poverty, one of the most regressive tax structures, and the least 
>developed welfare state. Our society is also characterized by severe racial 
>inequality, as African Americans, Latinos, and other racial minorities 
>suffer the disproportionate effect of these disparities. Moreover, the 
>degree of inequality has worsened dramatically over the last 25-30 years.
>         With 25% of the world�s prisoners (a disproportionate and rising 
>number of whom are people of color), the U.S. can also boast the highest 
>level of incarceration in the world. It is also one of the few nations that 
>still employ the death penalty, which is applied in a highly discriminatory 
>manner. In addition, our industrial relations system is heavily skewed in 
>favor of employers and, not surprisingly, we have one of the weakest labor 
>movements. In few developed countries, moreover, are the rights of women 
>more limited and precarious. We also consume an inordinate proportion of 
>the world�s natural resources, in the process destroying our natural 
>environment at an increasingly alarming rate. Not content to confine the 
>ill effects of these practices to our own citizens, we seek to impose them 
>on the rest of the world via a foreign policy whose overriding concern is 
>the expansion of U.S. military might and corporate interests.
>         Our political system only serves to reinforce these outcomes. Our 
>winner-take-all electoral system limits our political options to two 
>political parties, which, although not identical, are strikingly similar 
>and have grown increasingly so over the years. In few other developed 
>countries are the political rules of the game so skewed and the resulting 
>set of political options so limited. The two main political parties, 
>moreover, have come to serve an increasingly narrow and privileged segment 
>of the population, made possible in part by the rising corporate domination 
>of our system of campaign finance and our legislative process. At the same 
>time, the growing corporate domination and concentration of our mass media 
>has had the effect of severely constricting our national political debate. 
>It should therefore come as no surprise that approximately half of the 
>voting age population does not vote in presidential elections, and that 
>those who do are disproportionately white and privileged. In fact, over the 
>last forty years, voter turnout in the U.S. has been falling steadily, 
>especially among the least privileged.
>         In the face of such a reality, it would seem that the only 
>appropriate response is outrage. In this regard, the Nader campaign 
>performed a service that has been long overdue. It relentlessly drew 
>attention to the fundamental problems confronting the country and demanded 
>that they be addressed. The Democrats, by contrast, steadfastly avoided 
>discussion of these problems and their own role in causing them. So too did 
>many of their supporters on the left. Indeed, rather than a 
>�lesser-of-two-evils� approach to the election, what many progressives 
>engaged in can more accurately be described as one of �see no evil, hear no 
>evil, speak no evil.� In reality, the Democrats, especially under the 
>Clinton-Gore administration, have veered significantly to the right, 
>adopting core Republican positions as their own and in some cases going 
>further with them than the Republicans had been able to do themselves. The 
>most notorious example of this is the 1996 welfare reform bill, which 
>gutted one of the central accomplishments of the New Deal.
>But there are many others, including a hard-line approach to crime and drug 
>abuse that has led to a doubling of the prison population in the last eight 
>years, an enthusiastic embrace of the death penalty despite the 
>overwhelming evidence that it kills innocent people and is racially 
>discriminatory, an obsession with balanced budgets that has depended upon 
>cuts in social spending, a foreign policy that was as militaristic and 
>anti-humanitarian as that of its Republican predecessors while even more 
>devoted to advancing the economic interests of Wall Street and corporate 
>America, and an environmental record that was so bad as to prompt David 
>Brower to conclude that �Gore and Clinton have done more to harm the 
>environment than Reagan and Bush combined.� Under Clinton and Gore, the 
>Democrats also became far more adept at corporate fund-raising, 
>significantly closing the gap with their Republican rivals. And not 
>surprisingly, inequality continued to grow, despite the vaunted economic 
>expansion of the 1990s.
>The list is longer, but this should have been enough to produce outrage on 
>the part of progressives. Such outrage, however, was in amazingly short 
>supply. Nor was there much anger over the fact that there was a systematic 
>effort to silence the one candidate who was attempting to draw attention to 
>the administration�s abysmal record, Ralph Nader. Indeed, throughout most 
>of the summer of 2000, Gore and his supporters worked hard to deny Nader a 
>national forum. They were aided in this effort by the national media, which 
>largely ignored him. To the degree that the media did cover his campaign, 
>it was to portray him as a �spoiler,� never to report on the substance of 
>his positions. In the early fall, with Gore trailing in the polls, the 
>media and the Democrats did begin to pay more attention to Nader, but only 
>to vilify him as a destructive egotist and to insist that there was no 
>alternative to �the Party.� Simultaneously, the distortion of the 
>Democrats� and Gore�s record reached new heights. Gore was consistently 
>portrayed as a champion of civil rights, labor rights, women�s rights, the 
>environment, and gay rights. Given Gore�s appalling record in all of these 
>areas, this was a particularly cynical effort. It was all the more cynical 
>given the Gore supporters� indignation over Nader�s supposed exaggeration 
>of the similarities between Bush and Gore. In truth, Nader did exaggerate, 
>but not by much and certainly far less than the Gore supporters in claiming 
>a difference between the two candidates.
>In their lionizing of Gore, his supporters somehow forgot about his 84% 
>pro-life voting record, his steadfast support for free trade, his close 
>ties to tobacco and oil companies and weapons manufacturers, his efforts to 
>end affirmative action for federal contractors through his �reinventing 
>government� program, his repeated betrayal of pledges to protect the 
>environment, and his long history as a gay basher. Also forgotten was the 
>fact that it was Gore who first race-baited Dukakis in the 1988 Democratic 
>primaries with the Willie Horton story and who made it a personal mission 
>to undermine the Jackson campaign in the 1988 New York primary. There was 
>also little reaction when Gore openly bragged about his support for the 
>death penalty, his key role in pushing through the 1996 Welfare Reform 
>Bill, his unbending support for sanctions on Iraq and military aid to 
>Colombia, or his call for an increase in defense spending twice that 
>proposed by Bush. Nor was there much reaction when he chose Joseph 
>Lieberman (one of the most conservative and pro-business members of the 
>Senate) as his running mate and former Commerce Secretary William Daley (a 
>leading figure in the administration�s effort to promote free trade) as his 
>campaign chair person. And there was a deafening silence when Lieberman 
>declared to the Wall Street Journal that big business need not worry about 
>the semi-populist elements of Gore�s convention speech, since it was simply 
>rhetoric designed to win votes.
>The response of most Gore backers to the outcome of the election has been 
>consistent with their attitude during the campaign, as they have heaped 
>considerable abuse on Nader as one of the two culprits who denied Gore his 
>rightful victory, the other being Bush�s allies on the U.S. Supreme Court. 
>While there is strong evidence for the latter, the former claim is yet 
>another example of denying reality. Unfortunately, in the hierarchy of 
>reasons explaining Gore�s �defeat,� Nader ranks quite low. Far more 
>significant was the fundamental weakness of the Gore campaign itself, which 
>was unable to win even Gore�s home state of Tennessee or Clinton�s home 
>state of Arkansas. This weakness was perhaps in part a negative reaction to 
>Clinton�s personal behavior and the odd perception that Bush was the 
>candidate with greater personal integrity. But it more likely reflected the 
>fact that there were so few discernible differences between the two main 
>candidates on bread and butter economic issues, particularly to the white 
>working class. Indeed, voter turnout was the third lowest in the last 75 
>years. To be sure, there was a slight increase over 1996 (from 49% to 51%), 
>but the class composition of the turnout was if anything more skewed than 
>ever in favor of the upper 20% of income earners. Moreover, one of the main 
>reasons for the increased turnout was Nader. In fact, in several states, he 
>helped to elect Democratic congressional candidates.
>While a few Democrats have acknowledged the positive role played by Nader, 
>most have treated him as a pariah. In striking contrast to their posture 
>toward the new administration, which they have welcomed in a remarkably 
>�bipartisan� manner, they have been determined to deny Nader any 
>opportunity to weigh in on policy debates in which they are presumably on 
>the same side. There are two basic motivations for this posture. One is to 
>deny their own culpability in their party�s defeat and the sorry state of 
>the nation. And the other is to send a message to anyone who dares to offer 
>a progressive alternative to the Democrats that they will pay heavily. 
>Ironically, Nader in this way performed yet another service by exposing the 
>Democratic Party for what it is. Indeed, if there were reason to be 
>skeptical about the party�s democratic convictions prior to this election, 
>their analysis of the election outcome has provided further reason for 
>doubt.
>How Did We Get Here?
>Thus, if we are serious about achieving progressive change, we have to 
>engage in a more candid and critical assessment of our contemporary 
>reality. But we also need to understand how we got here. For without an 
>accurate assessment of what led us to our present circumstances, we are 
>likely to continue down the same path, with the same or worse results. 
>Clearly, many of the same factors are in play, as social, economic, and 
>political inequalities have a way of perpetuating themselves. However, a 
>major part of the explanation for what got us here once again lies with the 
>Democratic Party. In this respect, Nader again did a far better job of 
>assessing reality than Gore. But Nader was actually too soft on the 
>Democrats, repeatedly suggesting that they had departed from their 
>progressive roots. The reality is that the Democratic Party never had such 
>roots and was never a champion of the rights of working people and racial 
>minorities.
>During the twentieth century, there have been only two moments when the 
>Democrats have presided over major progressive change: the New Deal of FDR 
>and the Great Society programs of Lyndon Johnson. Two conclusions can be 
>drawn from these experiences. One is that only pressure from below has ever 
>moved the Democrats in a progressive direction. The second is that the 
>lengths to which they can be moved are greatly limited by their ties to big 
>business interests. In both instances, the Democrats were forced to accept 
>change in response to massive popular mobilization. And in both cases, for 
>a variety of reasons, important segments of business were willing to 
>tolerate some degree of progressive change. However, that willingness was 
>both limited and short-lived. In fact, many of the more far-reaching 
>initiatives, particularly under the New Deal, were never realized, while 
>many of the accomplishments were quickly subjected to attack and, before 
>long, reversal. In the case of the New Deal, the possibilities for change 
>were also severely limited by the key role played by southern racists in 
>the party.
>Particularly over the last 25-30 years, these two factors have changed in 
>such a way as to cause the Democratic Party to move ever more rightward. 
>The labor movement, which was the most important popular impetus behind the 
>New Deal, has grown steadily weaker since the mid-1950s and has assumed a 
>largely conservative posture. Moreover, with the exception of the 1972 
>presidential election, it has given its support to the Democrats 
>unconditionally. Meanwhile, African Americans, whose mass mobilization 
>during the 1950s and 1960s was the driving force behind Johnson�s Great 
>Society programs and triggered the departure of most of the party�s 
>southern racist contingent, have since become a demobilized and captured 
>constituency. As a result, the capacity of both groups to influence the 
>direction of the Democratic Party has diminished significantly. 
>Simultaneously, the party has grown increasingly dependent upon big 
>business, which itself has grown less and less tolerant of even the most 
>moderate proposals for change. This process became most evident in the 
>early 1980s following the election of Ronald Reagan and the establishment 
>of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) in early 1985. Founded by a 
>group of primarily southern conservative Democrats, the DLC set out to move 
>the Party to the right by strengthening its ties to business, while 
>distancing it from labor, African Americans, and the poor. This effort came 
>to fruition in 1992 with the election of Clinton and Gore and was further 
>consolidated with the nomination of Gore and Lieberman in 2000.
>         The DLC�s main argument for pushing the party to the right is that 
>the country itself has moved rightward and that in order to win elections, 
>the party needs to respond to what the voters want. A corollary to this 
>argument is that the Republicans have also moved to the right and that the 
>Democrats must do whatever it takes to keep them out of the White House, 
>including following in their footsteps. But there is virtually no substance 
>to this argument. Survey data indicate that, if anything, the American 
>electorate has become more, not less, �liberal� in its attitudes. In fact, 
>to the degree that Americans have come to oppose government activism, it 
>has not been because they are hostile to government action  to the 
>contrary, they believe that the government should be actively involved in 
>problem-solving  but rather because they have become disillusioned with the 
>government�s capacity for problem-solving. Much of that disillusionment, 
>moreover, can be attributed to the Democrats, who for decades have grown 
>increasingly unwilling or unable to respond to the economic aspirations of 
>poor and working class voters and instead have responded to the demands of 
>the wealthy.
>         Furthermore, rather than simply responding to the rightward shift 
>of the Republicans, the Democrats have at times initiated the move to the 
>right. Indeed, it was the Carter administration that launched Reaganomics, 
>fully two years before Reagan came into office. And it is no surprise that 
>Carter lost to Reagan in 1980, with Carter offering such a dismal option to 
>the working class. Once Reagan was in office, the Democrats also went out 
>of their way to accommodate his policy initiatives, giving him bigger tax 
>cuts and increases in military spending than he had asked for, and much of 
>what he requested in social spending cuts. And rather than responding to 
>the growing discontent among the poor, working class, and racial 
>minorities, they instead engaged in a heightened competition with the 
>Republicans for gaining the backing of business.
>The 1984 campaign of Walter Mondale was itself a revealing case study of 
>the party�s increasing domination by business and its growing distance from 
>its popular electoral constituencies. Particularly striking was the 
>campaign�s deliberate efforts to limit voter turnout among the poor and 
>racial minorities, for fear that it would strengthen the candidacy of Jesse 
>Jackson. Even after winning the nomination, Mondale continued to oppose 
>registration efforts despite a 250-page study written by his aides that 
>concluded that �the only way Mondale can win is by pitching his appeal to 
>the white working class and minorities.� The main problem, of course, was 
>the effect such an appeal would have on the Party�s business backers. 
>Thomas Ferguson and Joel Rogers described the situation well:
>As the Mondale campaign made clear, virtually no Democratic business group 
>has a stake in expanding the party�s mass base. To gain the support of 
>millions and millions of poor nonvoters and marginally identifying blue- 
>and white-collar workers, the Democrats would actually have to offer them 
>something  perhaps a progressive tax code, or full employment, or 
>unionization with real power for the rank and file, or enhanced social 
>programs. [But] the party�s dominant business elites are not prepared to do 
>this.
>Constrained by his business backers, Mondale thus offered nothing to those 
>voters who could have given the Democrats a victory. Instead, he offered 
>only fiscal restraint and a promise to increase taxes. Coupled with one of 
>the largest political business cycles ever engineered, this was enough to 
>produce a landslide victory for Reagan. In the wake of this defeat, party 
>leaders saw it as an opportunity to push even harder for the strategy that 
>had produced it. Indeed, it was in early 1985 that the DLC was founded. 
>Moreover, instead of rewarding Jesse Jackson with greater influence for his 
>loyalty to the party and the new voters he recruited, the white Democratic 
>establishment (in a preview of their treatment of Nader in 2000) viciously 
>scape-goated him for losing the election. In 1986, party nominating rules 
>were also re-written in an effort to �moderate� the party�s image and 
>advance a candidate that could appeal to conservative white voters.
>It was not until 1992, however, that the DLC succeeded in getting one of 
>its own elected in the person of Bill Clinton. But Clinton�s victory should 
>not be seen as a vindication of the DLC�s conservative strategy. Clinton 
>received fewer votes than Dukakis had in 1988 and would never have won if 
>not for an economic recession and the presence of a strong third candidate, 
>Ross Perot, who received millions of votes from the very voting bloc that 
>has abandoned the Democrats in droves over the last 25 years: low-income 
>whites. Apparently oblivious to the real significance of the election, 
>Clinton very quickly dedicated his administration to the service of 
>business interests, thereby producing the fiasco of the 1994 congressional 
>elections, in which a rightwing Republican cabal took control of the 
>Congress. Continuing the pattern established by his party since 1980, 
>Clinton responded to this outcome by turning even more to the right. Aided 
>once again by the presence of Ross Perot, a less than stimulating 
>Republican candidate in Bob Dole, and the fact that the Congressional 
>Republicans that he had set out to imitate had become thoroughly 
>discredited, Clinton was able to win reelection in 1996. Voter turnout, 
>however, was the lowest since 1924. Given this history, it was not 
>particularly surprising that the 2000 Democratic ticket consisted of Gore 
>and Lieberman, two darlings of the DLC. It was also not surprising that 
>Gore, despite benefiting from an unprecedented economic expansion, ran a 
>very close and uninspired race against George W. Bush, arguably the least 
>prepared presidential candidate during this century. And it came as no 
>shock that the southerner Gore did abysmally in the south and that the 
>Democratic leadership made no effort to challenge the disenfranchisement of 
>African American voters in Florida and instead worked to diffuse their 
>protests.
>The Democrats, then, have played a major role in producing the increasingly 
>rightward shift of politics in the United States. By adopting Republican 
>policy positions, they have legitimated those positions and enabled the 
>Republicans to move ever farther to the right, with little fear of becoming 
>politically marginal. When in power, moreover, they more effectively 
>realize Republican policies by paralyzing groups that are reluctant to 
>oppose a Democratic President. And by alienating low-income voters, they 
>pave the way for Republican victories. As Jesse Jackson Jr. recently put 
>it, the move down this path has been �aided by Democrats. In 1992 a 
>conservative Democrat, Bill Clinton, selected an even more conservative 
>running mate, Al Gore, who in 2000 selected an even more conservative 
>running mate, Joseph Lieberman. By helping to shift the Democratic Party 
>and the country further right, a very conservative George W. Bush could 
>select an ultraconservative Dick Cheney as his running mate  and win.�
>
>Where Do We Want to Go?
>Now that we have a better sense of where we are and how we got here, the 
>next task is to figure out where we want to go. How we answer this question 
>may be the most critical task of all, since it will dictate how we act. 
>Indeed, in addressing this question, we are beginning to speak more 
>directly about strategy. This is because strategic action consists of two 
>basic elements: conceiving of a vision of the future; and devising a series 
>of steps aimed at getting there. Without a vision of the future, political 
>action is aimless and very unlikely to be successful. It certainly is not 
>strategic in any meaningful sense of the word.
>         Unfortunately, the American left has by and large ignored this 
>question. The vast majority of us have little sense of where we want to go 
>or of the future we would like to bring into being. At least, we do not 
>devote much discussion to it and we certainly do not make the effort to 
>think systematically about what it would take to make it a reality. 
>Instead, the greater part of our political activity, by far, is devoted to 
>reaction, to opposing or trying to limit the worst effects of things we do 
>not want, rather than to working proactively to construct an alternative 
>reality. Our political orientation is heavily geared toward the short term, 
>with our highest goal set on winning the next election. More often than 
>not, we find ourselves in a defensive holding action, and we devote little 
>thought to the long-term implications of our actions.
>We also make very little effort to influence the program of the political 
>organizations and elected officials who presumably represent us. Indeed, we 
>demonstrate an extraordinary willingness to demand, and accept, very little 
>from them, and we tolerate a political dialogue that is superficial and 
>even repressive. Again, there was perhaps no better example of this than 
>the treatment of Nader in the 2000 election. Instead of welcoming a 
>candidate who offered an unusually elaborate and straightforward program 
>for change, even if only because of the effect that discussion of that 
>program could have on our national political debate, far too many of us 
>were willing to stand by and let the focus be trained entirely on his 
>supposed role as a �spoiler.� His program, meanwhile, was systematically 
>ignored, if not suppressed.
>To some degree, the defensive posture of American progressives is very 
>understandable, particularly since we inhabit an environment in which our 
>enemies are strong and determined to implement very undesirable 
>initiatives. The irony, however, is that by focusing so much attention on 
>containing our enemies, rather than on conceptualizing and working toward 
>the construction of a better society, we can end up hastening the 
>realization of the very things we oppose. This is because we are more 
>likely to find ourselves losing sight of and compromising our positive 
>goals and thus allowing for the kind of scenario described above, in which 
>the Democratic Party can pull us ever more rightward, because the 
>Republicans, themselves aided by the Democrats, are always a little worse. 
>We can therefore easily find ourselves in a vicious, downward spiral in 
>which our actions serve only to reinforce a continual worsening of 
>conditions.
>None of this is to say that we should refrain from being negative, in the 
>sense of engaging in a critique of contemporary society. Our vision of a 
>positive alternative reality is very much contained in our critique of 
>things as they are, since the nature and depth of that critique will point 
>to what it is that we seek to change and how much of a change we seek to 
>achieve. One vision of the future, based for example on the critique 
>advanced in the first section of this article, might be characterized as 
>social democratic or perhaps democratic socialist. This would involve 
>constructing a society in which inequalities of wealth and income are 
>limited, poverty is all but nonexistent, health care is universal, taxation 
>is progressive, racial minorities, women, and gays are full members of 
>society, unions are powerful and democratic, the death penalty is 
>abolished, the prison population is vastly outnumbered by the university 
>student population, foreign policy is humanitarian and democratic, the 
>defense budget is geared toward defense and thus radically reduced, the 
>environment is strongly protected, the media permit an open and wide 
>ranging political debate, political campaigns are publicly financed, and 
>the party system provides a wide range of political options, including some 
>that represent the least privileged members of society.
>Of course, many may not feel comfortable with this kind of social 
>democratic or democratic socialist vision and would prefer a future that is 
>not such a departure from our present circumstances. Some may wish to work 
>for only one or two of these objectives and may be very willing to 
>sacrifice the remainder in order to accomplish them. These differences may 
>tell us as much about who we are as anything else. Some of us clearly 
>benefit a great deal from our current conditions and thus are less 
>interested in seeing such changes realized. But even among those who do not 
>define our interests so narrowly, there will be major differences. Indeed, 
>the democratization of society will unavoidably require the construction of 
>a diverse coalition of interests, many of which may not easily join forces 
>with each other, but which can nevertheless find enough common ground to 
>advance a mutually beneficial program of change. On the other hand, our 
>failure to embrace a program of change may have nothing to do with our 
>interests, and instead reflect the nature of our expectations. In other 
>words, some of us may have simply given up on the possibility of change and 
>do not consider the above vision of the future as a feasible or realistic 
>one, however desirable it may be. But whatever our particular response to 
>this question, the fact remains that unless and until we address it, there 
>is little or no chance that we will move forward, wherever or however far 
>we end up deciding we want to go. With that in mind, we turn now to the 
>fourth and final question.
>How Do We Get There?
>This may be the most difficult question of all, since it is a lot easier to 
>engage in a critique of contemporary society, or elaborate a vision of a 
>future society, than it is to come up with a viable strategy for moving 
>forward. It is also likely the question on which we have reflected with the 
>least care. This was clearly illustrated in the 2000 election, and in 
>particular in the analysis offered by the backers of Gore. To review, that 
>analysis consisted of the claim that the only real option was to vote for 
>Gore, given that Nader was not going to win and that Gore, however 
>undesirable, was preferable to Bush. The mantra of the Gore campaign was 
>therefore �a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush� and anyone who did not 
>understand this was labeled as strategically unsophisticated, 
>irresponsible, and even destructive. While voting for Gore was touted as an 
>eminently strategic act, voting for Nader was seen at best as a symbolic 
>action, or a protest vote, certainly not one informed by a strategic 
>understanding of the stakes involved. However, just as the Gore supporters 
>never reflected on where we are, how we got here, or where we want to go, 
>they never carefully examined this claim to strategic insight. Their 
>critique of Nader supporters, it turns out, would have been more 
>appropriately applied to themselves.
>In the first place, the focus of the pro-Gore option was entirely 
>short-term in character. It was at best a defensive maneuver with no real 
>end game  yet another holding action designed to prevent a Republican from 
>assuming office and totally devoid of any proposal for what to do the day 
>after the election. At virtually no point did anyone consider, much less 
>explain, how voting for Gore fit into a long-term strategy of bringing 
>about progressive change. In reality, there were basically only three 
>reasons for voting for Gore, only two of which made any real sense. One 
>reason is that you benefit from the existing inequalities in US society and 
>understand that voting for Gore would help to preserve, if not increase, 
>those inequalities. This group actually behaved in a very strategically 
>rational manner and, of course, was well represented among those who 
>contributed so generously to Gore�s campaign. A second reason is that while 
>you dislike what Gore and the Democrats have come to represent, you have 
>largely given up hope that there will ever be any better option. This too 
>is rational, though it is very cynical and can hardly be called strategic. 
>The final reason is that while you dislike Gore and the Democrats, you 
>believe (or hold out hope) that voting for Gore is somehow consistent with 
>getting something better than Gore. This reason is also not strategic and 
>the rationality behind it is dubious at best.
>This last group of voters in particular made very little effort to examine 
>the long-term implications of their actions. If they had, they might have 
>realized what was the very best-case scenario of the vote-for-Gore option: 
>a Gore victory in 2000; his reelection in 2004 (because the same logic of 
>preventing a Republican victory would have prevailed and the best candidate 
>for that is an incumbent President); a victory by Lieberman in 2008 (as the 
>heir apparent); and Lieberman�s reelection in 2012. It bears repeating that 
>this would have been the very best-case scenario, a quarter century of 
>Clinton, Gore, and Lieberman. Not only would this have been unlikely; had 
>it occurred, it would also have dealt a severe blow to the chances of 
>constructing a progressive future. That is, unless it finally provided 
>indisputable evidence to enough Democratic Party loyalists that a third 
>party alternative was now necessary. This, however, is a �things have to 
>get worse before they get better� scenario that is neither promising nor 
>desirable.
>         A closely related failure was the Gore backers� basic 
>misunderstanding of the difference between long-term and short-term costs. 
>They aggressively reprimanded Nader supporters for supposedly ignoring the 
>costs of their actions, particularly the costs borne by the weakest members 
>of society who would pay most dearly for a Bush victory. This argument has 
>a powerful emotional appeal, as it touches upon what should be at the very 
>center of our political decision-making  the effects that our actions have 
>on the weakest among us. No one backing Nader should have taken this 
>argument lightly. Yet, it artificially absolves the Gore backers of their 
>own responsibility by failing to consider the long-term costs of their 
>actions. If we are really concerned about people who are suffering and want 
>to be certain that our decisions do the least harm to them, we cannot focus 
>only on the short-term. We also have to consider the harm that will be done 
>to them in the long term. We must ask ourselves whether the actions 
>designed to minimize short-term costs produce far greater costs in the 
>long-term by foregoing the possibility of future change. In other words, 
>will those actions reduce the likelihood that the weakest among us will 
>become full members of society and realize their life chances? These 
>questions (which are more relevant than ever in light of the recent 
>evolution of the Democratic Party), were virtually never raised, much less 
>addressed, by the supporters of Al Gore.
>         It deserves noting that no significant social change was ever 
>accomplished anywhere by focusing exclusively on short-term costs. Indeed, 
>it is no exaggeration to state that in every case of significant social, 
>political, and economic progress in the history of human existence, the 
>protagonists of change have had to reject the argument that they should be 
>careful and not rock the boat, because the balance of forces is against 
>them, things are unlikely to get better, and they can easily get worse. 
>That reality has not changed. The truth is that, much like the periods 
>preceding significant social change in the past, we are engulfed in an 
>increasingly severe vicious circle (or downward spiral). By definition, 
>breaking free of any vicious circle has significant short-term costs, but 
>the longer the decision to break free is put off, the more costly (and 
>hence unlikely) it becomes. Those who seek to democratize society must 
>confront this basic strategic dilemma head on. Their fear that a rupture 
>with the status quo may be too costly is very understandable, but they must 
>also understand that by exercising excessive prudence, they will contribute 
>to the perpetuation of current conditions and preclude the possibility of 
>future change. What it comes down to, then, is the kind of self-fulfilling 
>prophecy we choose to be a part of  one that maintains conditions as they 
>are, or one that builds toward an alternative future.
>         Yet another strategic weakness exhibited by the Gore backers was 
>their fundamental misunderstanding of what it takes to prevail in politics. 
>At an abstract level, the answer of course is power, the capacity to force 
>others to act in a way that they would not otherwise. But what does this 
>mean practically? In electoral politics, it means being willing to deny 
>support to parties and candidates, even at the risk of causing them to lose 
>and helping to elect something or someone worse. The Senate Democrats� role 
>in the recent confirmation of Bush�s cabinet appointments illustrates the 
>point. Presented with some of the most reactionary appointments in recent 
>memory, the Democrats made little or no effort to oppose them. In fact, 
>most were confirmed unanimously. Disturbed by this weak response, some 
>Democratic loyalists reacted in anger. For example, Patricia Ireland, the 
>president of NOW, declared: �There is a fairly angry and experienced crowd 
>of activists who can be mobilized to bring a lot of public pressure, 
>mainly, in my view, on the Democrats  to keep the Democrats from folding 
>into the center-right agenda.� In a similar vein, Julian Bond, the 
>president of the NAACP, stated: �Democrats need to know that their votes 
>are monitored just as the Republicans� votes are monitored.� But these 
>statements beg some very fundamental questions. How does one keep the 
>Democrats from folding into the center-right? What is the point of 
>monitoring votes if one lacks the capacity to sanction those votes? What 
>form would those sanctions take? Are these credible threats then? In truth, 
>the only way to ensure that the Democrats do the right thing is to put the 
>fear of losing in them. But like so many others, both Ireland and Bond have 
>made it so clear that they prefer anything to the Republicans that they 
>have no real leverage on the Democrats. The only way to gain leverage would 
>be to make their support conditional, which means being willing to cause 
>them to lose their seats, and neither is willing to do that.
>         At least Ireland and Bond recognize the Democrats� culpability. 
>Far more of those who backed Gore have reacted to the Bush appointments by 
>claiming that they provide clear proof that voting for Gore was the correct 
>thing to do. But the logic underpinning this argument is very cynical. It 
>rests fundamentally on the claim that we have no choice but to vote the 
>Democrats into the White House because we cannot trust them to use the 
>power at their disposal to do the right thing in the Congress. It thus 
>comes down to a form of blackmail: �If you don�t vote for our candidate, 
>we�ll stand aside and unleash a right-winger on the country.� This is why 
>the frequent invocation of Supreme Court Justices Scalia and Thomas during 
>the election rang so hollow. Somehow overlooked was the fact that the 
>Democrats stood by and let those appointments go through when they had the 
>power to block them. None of this, of course, is particularly novel. It is 
>simply a continuation of a pattern that has been gaining momentum for 
>several decades.
>         So much for the strategic shortcomings of the Gore backers. What 
>about the Nader/Green option? Did it really represent a promising 
>alternative, one that could serve as the basis for a new progressive 
>political movement? In many respects, it did, and perhaps still does. In 
>the first place, Nader was unmistakably the most progressive presidential 
>candidate to come along in at least a half century, if not longer. He 
>offered a program that not only addressed many of the country�s deepest 
>problems, but offered concrete proposals for dealing with them. He was thus 
>the first candidate in decades to advance a clear vision of the future that 
>progressives could enthusiastically embrace. He also demonstrated a solid 
>grasp of what it takes to get there, including an understanding of how 
>power functions and is distributed in this society, the differences between 
>short- and long-term costs, and the crucial role of social mobilization. 
>Indeed, in this last regard, he has strong links to the social forces that 
>emerged in the Seattle demonstrations in November 1999, probably the most 
>significant instance of mass social mobilization to materialize in decades. 
>Moreover, although he has never been elected to political office, he has 
>long experience in working with Congress and has an impressive list of 
>legislative accomplishments, certainly far more impressive than almost any 
>member of Congress.
>         All of this suggests that if one were to opt for a third party 
>candidate, this was going to be the time. If progressives remained hesitant 
>in the face of this unique historical opportunity, and were even willing to 
>actively undermine it by voting for Gore, it therefore likely meant that 
>they are fundamentally pessimistic about the prospects for a viable third 
>party emerging. But shouldn�t they be? Isn�t the history of third party 
>efforts in the U.S. pretty terrible? And isn�t this primarily because our 
>electoral system is simply inhospitable to third parties? Moreover, doesn�t 
>it make more sense to work at the local level, and establish a third party 
>presence there, before launching a campaign at the presidential level where 
>the stakes are so high? In any case, isn�t the Green Party badly organized 
>and therefore not a particularly promising vehicle? And haven�t Nader and 
>the Greens failed to reach out to African Americans and other people of 
>color, a crucial constituency in any progressive movement? For all of these 
>reasons, would it not therefore make more sense to try to work through the 
>Democratic Party?
>         The truth is that the history of third party efforts in the U.S. 
>is terrible and it does have a great deal to do with the nature of our 
>electoral system. But this is not a reason to abandon all future efforts. 
>Indeed, the immutable status we give to our electoral system is actually 
>quite mind-boggling. Somehow, many of us are capable of condemning the most 
>deep-seated socio-economic problems, but when it comes to a destructive 
>institutional feature of our political system, we accept it as permanent, 
>almost as though it were part of the natural order of things. This attitude 
>is all the more astounding given the enormous benefits electoral reforms 
>such as proportional representation or even instant run-off voting would 
>instantly produce (e.g., a widening of our political options, greatly 
>expanded participation, and the elimination of the �spoiler� effect) and 
>the very fertile terrain for electoral reform created by the Florida 
>debacle. Ironically, it is even possible to take advantage of the current 
>electoral system to advance such reforms. In fact, the two states where IRV 
>is being seriously considered are precisely those states where a strong 
>third party has created a spoiler effect: New Mexico and Alaska. In both 
>cases, it is the party that has been transformed from a winner into a loser 
>(the Democrats in New Mexico and the Republicans in Alaska) that is most 
>interested in reform  here we see how �losing� can be a positive force for 
>change. There is no reason, moreover, why this cannot also be accomplished 
>at the national level, since the logic behind it is unaffected by scale.
>         Any effort to establish a third party should also involve a great 
>deal of work at the local level. However, this does not preclude launching 
>a national, presidential campaign. Rather than being mutually exclusive 
>strategies, they can be mutually reinforcing. A good example of this is 
>Madison, Wisconsin, where an already strong local party, Progressive Dane, 
>made a strategic decision to get involved in the Nader campaign precisely 
>because of the benefits it would have for building their organization. And 
>as a result, they have experienced a surge of hundreds of new, very 
>actively engaged members. One reason this makes sense is the de-politicized 
>nature of our political culture. Unfortunately, most Americans, to the 
>degree we are at all interested in politics, focus on the national level. 
>In other words, only a national, presidential campaign has the capacity of 
>politicizing people rapidly. It is highly unlikely, for example, that the 
>tens of thousands of enthusiastic people who paid $10 each to attend 
>Nader�s �super rallies� would have been similarly inspired and energized in 
>the absence of the Nader campaign. Thus, rather than slowly building a 
>local presence all across the country before launching a national campaign, 
>it makes more sense to jump-start the whole process by advancing both 
>efforts simultaneously.
>         The Green Party is also not particularly well organized or 
>experienced, and in fact, suffers from some not insignificant divisions. 
>But this is also not a sufficient reason to write it off. Arguing that we 
>cannot opt for a third party until such a party is strong, well organized, 
>and experienced is to create a catch-22. If our involvement is essential to 
>building such a party, waiting until it emerges before we lend it our 
>support is to ensure its demise. In any case, there is no reason to stake 
>our hopes on the Green Party as the only possible third party alternative. 
>It is simply a vehicle, and a rather open one at that. The same is true of 
>Nader. In fact, we should be very wary of attaching our political agenda 
>too closely to any individual. But no matter where we begin, we will have 
>to confront the reality that organizations are weak in their infancy. In 
>order to attain the strength of adulthood, they require substantial 
>nurturing, not a wait-and-see attitude.
>         Nader and the Greens also did a very poor job of reaching out to 
>people of color, probably the greatest weakness of their campaign. In fact, 
>it was not until very late in the game that Nader began to address their 
>concerns explicitly. And not surprisingly, he did poorly among minority 
>voters. Yet, there is no significant reason why this cannot change. Despite 
>Nader�s limited efforts in this regard, he focused far more directly on 
>issues of concern to minority voters than Gore did, including support for 
>affirmative action, an end to racial profiling, an end to the war on drugs, 
>abolition of the death penalty, closing the racial wealth gap, and even 
>reparations for slavery. Much of his poor showing among those voters thus 
>had as much to do with the suppression of his message as the failure to 
>deliver it more effectively. Moreover, unlike the Democratic Party, in 
>which there are major structural obstacles to advancing a program that 
>addresses the needs of people of color, there are no such obstacles in the 
>Green Party.
>         But despite all this, shouldn�t Nader have sought to advance his 
>progressive agenda through the Democratic Party instead, given that it is 
>organizationally more developed and still has the most significant 
>progressive following of any political party? A number of people have in 
>fact advanced this argument, including Representative Barney Frank of 
>Massachusetts. Invariably, they point to Jesse Jackson as the best model of 
>what can be accomplished. This is a curious choice of models, however, 
>since Jackson�s experience is a far better example of the limitations of 
>the Democratic Party. As noted above, Jackson�s rainbow coalition set off 
>alarm bells in the party and the current political leadership went to great 
>lengths to ensure that it was defeated. Recent developments, moreover, 
>suggest that the chances of such an effort succeeding are more limited than 
>ever (e.g., the naming of super fundraiser Terry McAuliffe as the new 
>chairman of the Democratic National Committee and the DLC�s insistence that 
>a main reason for Gore�s defeat was his excessively populist campaign). 
>None of this rules out the possibility of progressives taking control of 
>the party. That possibility, however, is extremely small and it would 
>require somehow surmounting the overwhelming and growing power that moneyed 
>interests have in the party. It would also require a radical change in 
>strategy on the part of progressive Democrats. Ironically, perhaps the one 
>factor that could significantly strengthen their leverage vis-�-vis their 
>internal party rivals is the emergence of a strong third political party.
>
>
>Notes
>
>  John Nichols, �The Great Debate. Nader Has Inspired Bitter Debates on the 
>Left. Isn�t it Terrific?,� In These Times, November 13, 2000.
>  Quoted in Alexander Cockburn and Jeffery St. Clair, Al Gore: A User�s 
>Manual (London: Verso, 2000).
>  On media coverage of the Nader campaign, see Ralph Nader, �My Untold 
>Story,� Brill�s Content, February 2001, and Robert McChesney, et al., �The 
>Nader Campaign and the Future of U.S. Left Electoral Politics,� Monthly 
>Review, Vol. 52, No. 9, February 2001.
>  See for example the extraordinary letter by Representative John Conyers 
>to The Nation (November 20, 2000).
>  Aside from the large-scale disenfranchisement of African American voters, 
>a big part of the reason Gore lost the all-important state of Florida was 
>the vast number of Democrats and self-described liberals who voted for 
>Bush. In fact, while 24,000 Democrats voted for Nader, more than twelve 
>times as many (308,000) voted for Bush, and among self-described liberals, 
>the ratio was 191,000 to 34,000 (or nearly 6 to 1). Bush also beat Gore 
>among white women (53% to 44%) and voters 65 and older (51% to 47%) (see 
>Jim Hightower, �How Florida Democrats Torpedoed Gore,� in Salon.com, 
>November 27, 2000). Similar trends prevailed nationwide (see the CNN exit 
>poll at www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/epolls/US/P000.html). In fact, according 
>to a Voter News Service exit poll, only 47% of the Nader voters would have 
>voted for Gore in a two-way race, while 21% would have voted for Bush and 
>30% would not have voted at all.
>  William Greider, �Nader and the Politics of Fear,� The Nation, March 12, 
>2001.
>  Ibid.
>  Thomas Ferguson and Joel Rogers, Right Turn: The Decline of the Democrats 
>and the Future of American Politics (New York: Hill and Wang, 1986).
>  Ruy Teixeira and Joel Rogers, America�s Forgotten Majority: Why the White 
>Working Class Still Matters (New York: Basic Books, 2000).
>  Carter won only 48% of the union vote and only 44% of the working class 
>vote. Deepening a process that had gained momentum throughout the decade, 
>there was also a dramatic decrease in voter turnout among lower-class 
>groups. Frances Fox Piven and Richard Cloward, Why Americans Still Don�t 
>Vote and Why Politicians Want it That Way (Boston: Beacon Press, 2000), 
>pp.116, 121-125.
>  Piven and Cloward, Why Americans Still Don�t Vote, p.150.
>  Ferguson and Rogers, Right Turn, p.202.
>  Teixera and Rogers, America�s Forgotten Majority.
>  Jesse Jackson Jr., �George Bush�s Democrats,� The Nation, January 22, 
>2001.
>  Ruth Conniff, �Cancel the Honeymoon,� The Progressive, February 2001.
>  Ibid.
>  This may also explain why no one reacted when Joseph Lieberman declared 
>on national television a week before the election that he would have voted 
>to confirm Robert Bork if he had been a Senator at the time. Houston 
>Chronicle, October 30, 2000.
>  �Ruth Conniff referees a match between Barney Frank and Ralph Nader,� The 
>Progressive, November 2000.
>  Recently, Robert Reich has become so disillusioned as to conclude that 
>the Democratic Party is dead. See �The Democrats Aren�t �Just Resting�,� 
>Washington Post, March 11, 2001.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Ben Manski
>   Green Party of the United States
>   Steering Committee
>       manski@...
>       http://www.gp-us.org/


_________________________________________________________________
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Post ID:1997
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-01 02:03:35
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: [GreenMovement] Barrett's Strong Defense of Nader/LaDuke 2000
Message:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


>From: "JOSEPH MOSLEY" <joemosley1@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: [GreenMovement] Barrett's Strong Defense of 
>Nader/LaDuke 2000
>Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 01:29:32 -0400
>
>
>
>
> >From: Ben Manski <manski@...>
> >Reply-To: GreenMovement@yahoogroups.com
> >To: greenmovement@yahoogroups.com, greens@yahoogroups.com,
> >usgp-COO@...
> >Subject: [GreenMovement] Barrett's Strong Defense of Nader/LaDuke 2000
> >Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:47:12 -0500
> >
> >
> >�Strategic Lessons of the 2000 Presidential Election:
> >A Pro-Nader Perspective�
> >
> >Constellations, Volume 8, Number 3, September 2001, pp.348-363.
> >
> >Patrick S. Barrett
> >Administrative Director
> >A. E. Havens Center for the Study of Social Structure and Social Change
> >University of Wisconsin-Madison
> >Introduction
> >
> >The recent presidential election was a historically significant one for a
> >number of reasons. Perhaps the most obvious was the controversial manner 
>in
> >which George W. Bush assumed office. Another reason, however, was the
> >division and rancor the election produced among supporters of Al Gore and
> >Ralph Nader. More than its effect on the outcome of the election itself,
> >the deeper significance of the Gore-Nader controversy was the debate over
> >political strategy that it generated on the left. It has been a long time
> >since the left has engaged in such a debate, and its occurrence should
> >therefore be seen as a positive development. At the same time, the fact
> >that U.S. progressives are largely unaccustomed to thinking strategically
> >may help to explain why the debate has been conducted at such a low level
> >of sophistication and with such little forthrightness, especially on the
> >part of those who backed Gore and the Democrats. Indeed, it is ironic 
>that
> >the most common criticism of Nader supporters made by the backers of Gore
> >namely, that the former are strategically shortsighted, irresponsible, 
>and
> >even destructive  may be much more accurately applied to themselves.
> >What follows, then, is primarily intended as a critique of the pro-Gore
> >position. But it is also intended as a defense of the pro-Nader position,
> >which contains some of the essential elements of a long-term strategy for
> >bringing about real progressive change, even if not ultimately embodied 
>in
> >Nader or the Greens. Both of these objectives can be accomplished by
> >addressing four fundamental and interrelated questions: (1) Where are 
>we?;
> >(2) How did we get here?; (3) Where do we want to go?; and (4) How do we
> >get there? Together, these four questions are indispensable to any effort
> >aimed at devising a long-term strategy for progressive change. All four
> >questions, moreover, were nearly universally neglected, if not actively
> >avoided, by the backers of Gore and the Democrats.
> >Where Are We?
> >Beginning with this question is crucial, for if we do not engage in an
> >accurate assessment of our current circumstances, we have little chance 
>of
> >moving forward, much less getting very far. Thus, before we determine 
>where
> >we want to go, or the steps we need to take to get there, we need to
> >understand our point of departure. Clearly, there is insufficient space
> >here for more than a very cursory response to this question. The first 
>and
> >most obvious observation, then, is that ours is an extremely inequitable
> >society. Indeed, among all the advanced economies of the world, the U.S.
> >has the most unequal distribution of wealth and income, the least 
>economic
> >mobility, the longest hours logged by its workers, one of the highest 
>rates
> >of poverty, one of the most regressive tax structures, and the least
> >developed welfare state. Our society is also characterized by severe 
>racial
> >inequality, as African Americans, Latinos, and other racial minorities
> >suffer the disproportionate effect of these disparities. Moreover, the
> >degree of inequality has worsened dramatically over the last 25-30 years.
> >         With 25% of the world�s prisoners (a disproportionate and rising
> >number of whom are people of color), the U.S. can also boast the highest
> >level of incarceration in the world. It is also one of the few nations 
>that
> >still employ the death penalty, which is applied in a highly 
>discriminatory
> >manner. In addition, our industrial relations system is heavily skewed in
> >favor of employers and, not surprisingly, we have one of the weakest 
>labor
> >movements. In few developed countries, moreover, are the rights of women
> >more limited and precarious. We also consume an inordinate proportion of
> >the world�s natural resources, in the process destroying our natural
> >environment at an increasingly alarming rate. Not content to confine the
> >ill effects of these practices to our own citizens, we seek to impose 
>them
> >on the rest of the world via a foreign policy whose overriding concern is
> >the expansion of U.S. military might and corporate interests.
> >         Our political system only serves to reinforce these outcomes. 
>Our
> >winner-take-all electoral system limits our political options to two
> >political parties, which, although not identical, are strikingly similar
> >and have grown increasingly so over the years. In few other developed
> >countries are the political rules of the game so skewed and the resulting
> >set of political options so limited. The two main political parties,
> >moreover, have come to serve an increasingly narrow and privileged 
>segment
> >of the population, made possible in part by the rising corporate 
>domination
> >of our system of campaign finance and our legislative process. At the 
>same
> >time, the growing corporate domination and concentration of our mass 
>media
> >has had the effect of severely constricting our national political 
>debate.
> >It should therefore come as no surprise that approximately half of the
> >voting age population does not vote in presidential elections, and that
> >those who do are disproportionately white and privileged. In fact, over 
>the
> >last forty years, voter turnout in the U.S. has been falling steadily,
> >especially among the least privileged.
> >         In the face of such a reality, it would seem that the only
> >appropriate response is outrage. In this regard, the Nader campaign
> >performed a service that has been long overdue. It relentlessly drew
> >attention to the fundamental problems confronting the country and 
>demanded
> >that they be addressed. The Democrats, by contrast, steadfastly avoided
> >discussion of these problems and their own role in causing them. So too 
>did
> >many of their supporters on the left. Indeed, rather than a
> >�lesser-of-two-evils� approach to the election, what many progressives
> >engaged in can more accurately be described as one of �see no evil, hear 
>no
> >evil, speak no evil.� In reality, the Democrats, especially under the
> >Clinton-Gore administration, have veered significantly to the right,
> >adopting core Republican positions as their own and in some cases going
> >further with them than the Republicans had been able to do themselves. 
>The
> >most notorious example of this is the 1996 welfare reform bill, which
> >gutted one of the central accomplishments of the New Deal.
> >But there are many others, including a hard-line approach to crime and 
>drug
> >abuse that has led to a doubling of the prison population in the last 
>eight
> >years, an enthusiastic embrace of the death penalty despite the
> >overwhelming evidence that it kills innocent people and is racially
> >discriminatory, an obsession with balanced budgets that has depended upon
> >cuts in social spending, a foreign policy that was as militaristic and
> >anti-humanitarian as that of its Republican predecessors while even more
> >devoted to advancing the economic interests of Wall Street and corporate
> >America, and an environmental record that was so bad as to prompt David
> >Brower to conclude that �Gore and Clinton have done more to harm the
> >environment than Reagan and Bush combined.� Under Clinton and Gore, the
> >Democrats also became far more adept at corporate fund-raising,
> >significantly closing the gap with their Republican rivals. And not
> >surprisingly, inequality continued to grow, despite the vaunted economic
> >expansion of the 1990s.
> >The list is longer, but this should have been enough to produce outrage 
>on
> >the part of progressives. Such outrage, however, was in amazingly short
> >supply. Nor was there much anger over the fact that there was a 
>systematic
> >effort to silence the one candidate who was attempting to draw attention 
>to
> >the administration�s abysmal record, Ralph Nader. Indeed, throughout most
> >of the summer of 2000, Gore and his supporters worked hard to deny Nader 
>a
> >national forum. They were aided in this effort by the national media, 
>which
> >largely ignored him. To the degree that the media did cover his campaign,
> >it was to portray him as a �spoiler,� never to report on the substance of
> >his positions. In the early fall, with Gore trailing in the polls, the
> >media and the Democrats did begin to pay more attention to Nader, but 
>only
> >to vilify him as a destructive egotist and to insist that there was no
> >alternative to �the Party.� Simultaneously, the distortion of the
> >Democrats� and Gore�s record reached new heights. Gore was consistently
> >portrayed as a champion of civil rights, labor rights, women�s rights, 
>the
> >environment, and gay rights. Given Gore�s appalling record in all of 
>these
> >areas, this was a particularly cynical effort. It was all the more 
>cynical
> >given the Gore supporters� indignation over Nader�s supposed exaggeration
> >of the similarities between Bush and Gore. In truth, Nader did 
>exaggerate,
> >but not by much and certainly far less than the Gore supporters in 
>claiming
> >a difference between the two candidates.
> >In their lionizing of Gore, his supporters somehow forgot about his 84%
> >pro-life voting record, his steadfast support for free trade, his close
> >ties to tobacco and oil companies and weapons manufacturers, his efforts 
>to
> >end affirmative action for federal contractors through his �reinventing
> >government� program, his repeated betrayal of pledges to protect the
> >environment, and his long history as a gay basher. Also forgotten was the
> >fact that it was Gore who first race-baited Dukakis in the 1988 
>Democratic
> >primaries with the Willie Horton story and who made it a personal mission
> >to undermine the Jackson campaign in the 1988 New York primary. There was
> >also little reaction when Gore openly bragged about his support for the
> >death penalty, his key role in pushing through the 1996 Welfare Reform
> >Bill, his unbending support for sanctions on Iraq and military aid to
> >Colombia, or his call for an increase in defense spending twice that
> >proposed by Bush. Nor was there much reaction when he chose Joseph
> >Lieberman (one of the most conservative and pro-business members of the
> >Senate) as his running mate and former Commerce Secretary William Daley 
>(a
> >leading figure in the administration�s effort to promote free trade) as 
>his
> >campaign chair person. And there was a deafening silence when Lieberman
> >declared to the Wall Street Journal that big business need not worry 
>about
> >the semi-populist elements of Gore�s convention speech, since it was 
>simply
> >rhetoric designed to win votes.
> >The response of most Gore backers to the outcome of the election has been
> >consistent with their attitude during the campaign, as they have heaped
> >considerable abuse on Nader as one of the two culprits who denied Gore 
>his
> >rightful victory, the other being Bush�s allies on the U.S. Supreme 
>Court.
> >While there is strong evidence for the latter, the former claim is yet
> >another example of denying reality. Unfortunately, in the hierarchy of
> >reasons explaining Gore�s �defeat,� Nader ranks quite low. Far more
> >significant was the fundamental weakness of the Gore campaign itself, 
>which
> >was unable to win even Gore�s home state of Tennessee or Clinton�s home
> >state of Arkansas. This weakness was perhaps in part a negative reaction 
>to
> >Clinton�s personal behavior and the odd perception that Bush was the
> >candidate with greater personal integrity. But it more likely reflected 
>the
> >fact that there were so few discernible differences between the two main
> >candidates on bread and butter economic issues, particularly to the white
> >working class. Indeed, voter turnout was the third lowest in the last 75
> >years. To be sure, there was a slight increase over 1996 (from 49% to 
>51%),
> >but the class composition of the turnout was if anything more skewed than
> >ever in favor of the upper 20% of income earners. Moreover, one of the 
>main
> >reasons for the increased turnout was Nader. In fact, in several states, 
>he
> >helped to elect Democratic congressional candidates.
> >While a few Democrats have acknowledged the positive role played by 
>Nader,
> >most have treated him as a pariah. In striking contrast to their posture
> >toward the new administration, which they have welcomed in a remarkably
> >�bipartisan� manner, they have been determined to deny Nader any
> >opportunity to weigh in on policy debates in which they are presumably on
> >the same side. There are two basic motivations for this posture. One is 
>to
> >deny their own culpability in their party�s defeat and the sorry state of
> >the nation. And the other is to send a message to anyone who dares to 
>offer
> >a progressive alternative to the Democrats that they will pay heavily.
> >Ironically, Nader in this way performed yet another service by exposing 
>the
> >Democratic Party for what it is. Indeed, if there were reason to be
> >skeptical about the party�s democratic convictions prior to this 
>election,
> >their analysis of the election outcome has provided further reason for
> >doubt.
> >How Did We Get Here?
> >Thus, if we are serious about achieving progressive change, we have to
> >engage in a more candid and critical assessment of our contemporary
> >reality. But we also need to understand how we got here. For without an
> >accurate assessment of what led us to our present circumstances, we are
> >likely to continue down the same path, with the same or worse results.
> >Clearly, many of the same factors are in play, as social, economic, and
> >political inequalities have a way of perpetuating themselves. However, a
> >major part of the explanation for what got us here once again lies with 
>the
> >Democratic Party. In this respect, Nader again did a far better job of
> >assessing reality than Gore. But Nader was actually too soft on the
> >Democrats, repeatedly suggesting that they had departed from their
> >progressive roots. The reality is that the Democratic Party never had 
>such
> >roots and was never a champion of the rights of working people and racial
> >minorities.
> >During the twentieth century, there have been only two moments when the
> >Democrats have presided over major progressive change: the New Deal of 
>FDR
> >and the Great Society programs of Lyndon Johnson. Two conclusions can be
> >drawn from these experiences. One is that only pressure from below has 
>ever
> >moved the Democrats in a progressive direction. The second is that the
> >lengths to which they can be moved are greatly limited by their ties to 
>big
> >business interests. In both instances, the Democrats were forced to 
>accept
> >change in response to massive popular mobilization. And in both cases, 
>for
> >a variety of reasons, important segments of business were willing to
> >tolerate some degree of progressive change. However, that willingness was
> >both limited and short-lived. In fact, many of the more far-reaching
> >initiatives, particularly under the New Deal, were never realized, while
> >many of the accomplishments were quickly subjected to attack and, before
> >long, reversal. In the case of the New Deal, the possibilities for change
> >were also severely limited by the key role played by southern racists in
> >the party.
> >Particularly over the last 25-30 years, these two factors have changed in
> >such a way as to cause the Democratic Party to move ever more rightward.
> >The labor movement, which was the most important popular impetus behind 
>the
> >New Deal, has grown steadily weaker since the mid-1950s and has assumed a
> >largely conservative posture. Moreover, with the exception of the 1972
> >presidential election, it has given its support to the Democrats
> >unconditionally. Meanwhile, African Americans, whose mass mobilization
> >during the 1950s and 1960s was the driving force behind Johnson�s Great
> >Society programs and triggered the departure of most of the party�s
> >southern racist contingent, have since become a demobilized and captured
> >constituency. As a result, the capacity of both groups to influence the
> >direction of the Democratic Party has diminished significantly.
> >Simultaneously, the party has grown increasingly dependent upon big
> >business, which itself has grown less and less tolerant of even the most
> >moderate proposals for change. This process became most evident in the
> >early 1980s following the election of Ronald Reagan and the establishment
> >of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) in early 1985. Founded by a
> >group of primarily southern conservative Democrats, the DLC set out to 
>move
> >the Party to the right by strengthening its ties to business, while
> >distancing it from labor, African Americans, and the poor. This effort 
>came
> >to fruition in 1992 with the election of Clinton and Gore and was further
> >consolidated with the nomination of Gore and Lieberman in 2000.
> >         The DLC�s main argument for pushing the party to the right is 
>that
> >the country itself has moved rightward and that in order to win 
>elections,
> >the party needs to respond to what the voters want. A corollary to this
> >argument is that the Republicans have also moved to the right and that 
>the
> >Democrats must do whatever it takes to keep them out of the White House,
> >including following in their footsteps. But there is virtually no 
>substance
> >to this argument. Survey data indicate that, if anything, the American
> >electorate has become more, not less, �liberal� in its attitudes. In 
>fact,
> >to the degree that Americans have come to oppose government activism, it
> >has not been because they are hostile to government action  to the
> >contrary, they believe that the government should be actively involved in
> >problem-solving  but rather because they have become disillusioned with 
>the
> >government�s capacity for problem-solving. Much of that disillusionment,
> >moreover, can be attributed to the Democrats, who for decades have grown
> >increasingly unwilling or unable to respond to the economic aspirations 
>of
> >poor and working class voters and instead have responded to the demands 
>of
> >the wealthy.
> >         Furthermore, rather than simply responding to the rightward 
>shift
> >of the Republicans, the Democrats have at times initiated the move to the
> >right. Indeed, it was the Carter administration that launched 
>Reaganomics,
> >fully two years before Reagan came into office. And it is no surprise 
>that
> >Carter lost to Reagan in 1980, with Carter offering such a dismal option 
>to
> >the working class. Once Reagan was in office, the Democrats also went out
> >of their way to accommodate his policy initiatives, giving him bigger tax
> >cuts and increases in military spending than he had asked for, and much 
>of
> >what he requested in social spending cuts. And rather than responding to
> >the growing discontent among the poor, working class, and racial
> >minorities, they instead engaged in a heightened competition with the
> >Republicans for gaining the backing of business.
> >The 1984 campaign of Walter Mondale was itself a revealing case study of
> >the party�s increasing domination by business and its growing distance 
>from
> >its popular electoral constituencies. Particularly striking was the
> >campaign�s deliberate efforts to limit voter turnout among the poor and
> >racial minorities, for fear that it would strengthen the candidacy of 
>Jesse
> >Jackson. Even after winning the nomination, Mondale continued to oppose
> >registration efforts despite a 250-page study written by his aides that
> >concluded that �the only way Mondale can win is by pitching his appeal to
> >the white working class and minorities.� The main problem, of course, was
> >the effect such an appeal would have on the Party�s business backers.
> >Thomas Ferguson and Joel Rogers described the situation well:
> >As the Mondale campaign made clear, virtually no Democratic business 
>group
> >has a stake in expanding the party�s mass base. To gain the support of
> >millions and millions of poor nonvoters and marginally identifying blue-
> >and white-collar workers, the Democrats would actually have to offer them
> >something  perhaps a progressive tax code, or full employment, or
> >unionization with real power for the rank and file, or enhanced social
> >programs. [But] the party�s dominant business elites are not prepared to 
>do
> >this.
> >Constrained by his business backers, Mondale thus offered nothing to 
>those
> >voters who could have given the Democrats a victory. Instead, he offered
> >only fiscal restraint and a promise to increase taxes. Coupled with one 
>of
> >the largest political business cycles ever engineered, this was enough to
> >produce a landslide victory for Reagan. In the wake of this defeat, party
> >leaders saw it as an opportunity to push even harder for the strategy 
>that
> >had produced it. Indeed, it was in early 1985 that the DLC was founded.
> >Moreover, instead of rewarding Jesse Jackson with greater influence for 
>his
> >loyalty to the party and the new voters he recruited, the white 
>Democratic
> >establishment (in a preview of their treatment of Nader in 2000) 
>viciously
> >scape-goated him for losing the election. In 1986, party nominating rules
> >were also re-written in an effort to �moderate� the party�s image and
> >advance a candidate that could appeal to conservative white voters.
> >It was not until 1992, however, that the DLC succeeded in getting one of
> >its own elected in the person of Bill Clinton. But Clinton�s victory 
>should
> >not be seen as a vindication of the DLC�s conservative strategy. Clinton
> >received fewer votes than Dukakis had in 1988 and would never have won if
> >not for an economic recession and the presence of a strong third 
>candidate,
> >Ross Perot, who received millions of votes from the very voting bloc that
> >has abandoned the Democrats in droves over the last 25 years: low-income
> >whites. Apparently oblivious to the real significance of the election,
> >Clinton very quickly dedicated his administration to the service of
> >business interests, thereby producing the fiasco of the 1994 
>congressional
> >elections, in which a rightwing Republican cabal took control of the
> >Congress. Continuing the pattern established by his party since 1980,
> >Clinton responded to this outcome by turning even more to the right. 
>Aided
> >once again by the presence of Ross Perot, a less than stimulating
> >Republican candidate in Bob Dole, and the fact that the Congressional
> >Republicans that he had set out to imitate had become thoroughly
> >discredited, Clinton was able to win reelection in 1996. Voter turnout,
> >however, was the lowest since 1924. Given this history, it was not
> >particularly surprising that the 2000 Democratic ticket consisted of Gore
> >and Lieberman, two darlings of the DLC. It was also not surprising that
> >Gore, despite benefiting from an unprecedented economic expansion, ran a
> >very close and uninspired race against George W. Bush, arguably the least
> >prepared presidential candidate during this century. And it came as no
> >shock that the southerner Gore did abysmally in the south and that the
> >Democratic leadership made no effort to challenge the disenfranchisement 
>of
> >African American voters in Florida and instead worked to diffuse their
> >protests.
> >The Democrats, then, have played a major role in producing the 
>increasingly
> >rightward shift of politics in the United States. By adopting Republican
> >policy positions, they have legitimated those positions and enabled the
> >Republicans to move ever farther to the right, with little fear of 
>becoming
> >politically marginal. When in power, moreover, they more effectively
> >realize Republican policies by paralyzing groups that are reluctant to
> >oppose a Democratic President. And by alienating low-income voters, they
> >pave the way for Republican victories. As Jesse Jackson Jr. recently put
> >it, the move down this path has been �aided by Democrats. In 1992 a
> >conservative Democrat, Bill Clinton, selected an even more conservative
> >running mate, Al Gore, who in 2000 selected an even more conservative
> >running mate, Joseph Lieberman. By helping to shift the Democratic Party
> >and the country further right, a very conservative George W. Bush could
> >select an ultraconservative Dick Cheney as his running mate  and win.�
> >
> >Where Do We Want to Go?
> >Now that we have a better sense of where we are and how we got here, the
> >next task is to figure out where we want to go. How we answer this 
>question
> >may be the most critical task of all, since it will dictate how we act.
> >Indeed, in addressing this question, we are beginning to speak more
> >directly about strategy. This is because strategic action consists of two
> >basic elements: conceiving of a vision of the future; and devising a 
>series
> >of steps aimed at getting there. Without a vision of the future, 
>political
> >action is aimless and very unlikely to be successful. It certainly is not
> >strategic in any meaningful sense of the word.
> >         Unfortunately, the American left has by and large ignored this
> >question. The vast majority of us have little sense of where we want to 
>go
> >or of the future we would like to bring into being. At least, we do not
> >devote much discussion to it and we certainly do not make the effort to
> >think systematically about what it would take to make it a reality.
> >Instead, the greater part of our political activity, by far, is devoted 
>to
> >reaction, to opposing or trying to limit the worst effects of things we 
>do
> >not want, rather than to working proactively to construct an alternative
> >reality. Our political orientation is heavily geared toward the short 
>term,
> >with our highest goal set on winning the next election. More often than
> >not, we find ourselves in a defensive holding action, and we devote 
>little
> >thought to the long-term implications of our actions.
> >We also make very little effort to influence the program of the political
> >organizations and elected officials who presumably represent us. Indeed, 
>we
> >demonstrate an extraordinary willingness to demand, and accept, very 
>little
> >from them, and we tolerate a political dialogue that is superficial and
> >even repressive. Again, there was perhaps no better example of this than
> >the treatment of Nader in the 2000 election. Instead of welcoming a
> >candidate who offered an unusually elaborate and straightforward program
> >for change, even if only because of the effect that discussion of that
> >program could have on our national political debate, far too many of us
> >were willing to stand by and let the focus be trained entirely on his
> >supposed role as a �spoiler.� His program, meanwhile, was systematically
> >ignored, if not suppressed.
> >To some degree, the defensive posture of American progressives is very
> >understandable, particularly since we inhabit an environment in which our
> >enemies are strong and determined to implement very undesirable
> >initiatives. The irony, however, is that by focusing so much attention on
> >containing our enemies, rather than on conceptualizing and working toward
> >the construction of a better society, we can end up hastening the
> >realization of the very things we oppose. This is because we are more
> >likely to find ourselves losing sight of and compromising our positive
> >goals and thus allowing for the kind of scenario described above, in 
>which
> >the Democratic Party can pull us ever more rightward, because the
> >Republicans, themselves aided by the Democrats, are always a little 
>worse.
> >We can therefore easily find ourselves in a vicious, downward spiral in
> >which our actions serve only to reinforce a continual worsening of
> >conditions.
> >None of this is to say that we should refrain from being negative, in the
> >sense of engaging in a critique of contemporary society. Our vision of a
> >positive alternative reality is very much contained in our critique of
> >things as they are, since the nature and depth of that critique will 
>point
> >to what it is that we seek to change and how much of a change we seek to
> >achieve. One vision of the future, based for example on the critique
> >advanced in the first section of this article, might be characterized as
> >social democratic or perhaps democratic socialist. This would involve
> >constructing a society in which inequalities of wealth and income are
> >limited, poverty is all but nonexistent, health care is universal, 
>taxation
> >is progressive, racial minorities, women, and gays are full members of
> >society, unions are powerful and democratic, the death penalty is
> >abolished, the prison population is vastly outnumbered by the university
> >student population, foreign policy is humanitarian and democratic, the
> >defense budget is geared toward defense and thus radically reduced, the
> >environment is strongly protected, the media permit an open and wide
> >ranging political debate, political campaigns are publicly financed, and
> >the party system provides a wide range of political options, including 
>some
> >that represent the least privileged members of society.
> >Of course, many may not feel comfortable with this kind of social
> >democratic or democratic socialist vision and would prefer a future that 
>is
> >not such a departure from our present circumstances. Some may wish to 
>work
> >for only one or two of these objectives and may be very willing to
> >sacrifice the remainder in order to accomplish them. These differences 
>may
> >tell us as much about who we are as anything else. Some of us clearly
> >benefit a great deal from our current conditions and thus are less
> >interested in seeing such changes realized. But even among those who do 
>not
> >define our interests so narrowly, there will be major differences. 
>Indeed,
> >the democratization of society will unavoidably require the construction 
>of
> >a diverse coalition of interests, many of which may not easily join 
>forces
> >with each other, but which can nevertheless find enough common ground to
> >advance a mutually beneficial program of change. On the other hand, our
> >failure to embrace a program of change may have nothing to do with our
> >interests, and instead reflect the nature of our expectations. In other
> >words, some of us may have simply given up on the possibility of change 
>and
> >do not consider the above vision of the future as a feasible or realistic
> >one, however desirable it may be. But whatever our particular response to
> >this question, the fact remains that unless and until we address it, 
>there
> >is little or no chance that we will move forward, wherever or however far
> >we end up deciding we want to go. With that in mind, we turn now to the
> >fourth and final question.
> >How Do We Get There?
> >This may be the most difficult question of all, since it is a lot easier 
>to
> >engage in a critique of contemporary society, or elaborate a vision of a
> >future society, than it is to come up with a viable strategy for moving
> >forward. It is also likely the question on which we have reflected with 
>the
> >least care. This was clearly illustrated in the 2000 election, and in
> >particular in the analysis offered by the backers of Gore. To review, 
>that
> >analysis consisted of the claim that the only real option was to vote for
> >Gore, given that Nader was not going to win and that Gore, however
> >undesirable, was preferable to Bush. The mantra of the Gore campaign was
> >therefore �a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush� and anyone who did not
> >understand this was labeled as strategically unsophisticated,
> >irresponsible, and even destructive. While voting for Gore was touted as 
>an
> >eminently strategic act, voting for Nader was seen at best as a symbolic
> >action, or a protest vote, certainly not one informed by a strategic
> >understanding of the stakes involved. However, just as the Gore 
>supporters
> >never reflected on where we are, how we got here, or where we want to go,
> >they never carefully examined this claim to strategic insight. Their
> >critique of Nader supporters, it turns out, would have been more
> >appropriately applied to themselves.
> >In the first place, the focus of the pro-Gore option was entirely
> >short-term in character. It was at best a defensive maneuver with no real
> >end game  yet another holding action designed to prevent a Republican 
>from
> >assuming office and totally devoid of any proposal for what to do the day
> >after the election. At virtually no point did anyone consider, much less
> >explain, how voting for Gore fit into a long-term strategy of bringing
> >about progressive change. In reality, there were basically only three
> >reasons for voting for Gore, only two of which made any real sense. One
> >reason is that you benefit from the existing inequalities in US society 
>and
> >understand that voting for Gore would help to preserve, if not increase,
> >those inequalities. This group actually behaved in a very strategically
> >rational manner and, of course, was well represented among those who
> >contributed so generously to Gore�s campaign. A second reason is that 
>while
> >you dislike what Gore and the Democrats have come to represent, you have
> >largely given up hope that there will ever be any better option. This too
> >is rational, though it is very cynical and can hardly be called 
>strategic.
> >The final reason is that while you dislike Gore and the Democrats, you
> >believe (or hold out hope) that voting for Gore is somehow consistent 
>with
> >getting something better than Gore. This reason is also not strategic and
> >the rationality behind it is dubious at best.
> >This last group of voters in particular made very little effort to 
>examine
> >the long-term implications of their actions. If they had, they might have
> >realized what was the very best-case scenario of the vote-for-Gore 
>option:
> >a Gore victory in 2000; his reelection in 2004 (because the same logic of
> >preventing a Republican victory would have prevailed and the best 
>candidate
> >for that is an incumbent President); a victory by Lieberman in 2008 (as 
>the
> >heir apparent); and Lieberman�s reelection in 2012. It bears repeating 
>that
> >this would have been the very best-case scenario, a quarter century of
> >Clinton, Gore, and Lieberman. Not only would this have been unlikely; had
> >it occurred, it would also have dealt a severe blow to the chances of
> >constructing a progressive future. That is, unless it finally provided
> >indisputable evidence to enough Democratic Party loyalists that a third
> >party alternative was now necessary. This, however, is a �things have to
> >get worse before they get better� scenario that is neither promising nor
> >desirable.
> >         A closely related failure was the Gore backers� basic
> >misunderstanding of the difference between long-term and short-term 
>costs.
> >They aggressively reprimanded Nader supporters for supposedly ignoring 
>the
> >costs of their actions, particularly the costs borne by the weakest 
>members
> >of society who would pay most dearly for a Bush victory. This argument 
>has
> >a powerful emotional appeal, as it touches upon what should be at the 
>very
> >center of our political decision-making  the effects that our actions 
>have
> >on the weakest among us. No one backing Nader should have taken this
> >argument lightly. Yet, it artificially absolves the Gore backers of their
> >own responsibility by failing to consider the long-term costs of their
> >actions. If we are really concerned about people who are suffering and 
>want
> >to be certain that our decisions do the least harm to them, we cannot 
>focus
> >only on the short-term. We also have to consider the harm that will be 
>done
> >to them in the long term. We must ask ourselves whether the actions
> >designed to minimize short-term costs produce far greater costs in the
> >long-term by foregoing the possibility of future change. In other words,
> >will those actions reduce the likelihood that the weakest among us will
> >become full members of society and realize their life chances? These
> >questions (which are more relevant than ever in light of the recent
> >evolution of the Democratic Party), were virtually never raised, much 
>less
> >addressed, by the supporters of Al Gore.
> >         It deserves noting that no significant social change was ever
> >accomplished anywhere by focusing exclusively on short-term costs. 
>Indeed,
> >it is no exaggeration to state that in every case of significant social,
> >political, and economic progress in the history of human existence, the
> >protagonists of change have had to reject the argument that they should 
>be
> >careful and not rock the boat, because the balance of forces is against
> >them, things are unlikely to get better, and they can easily get worse.
> >That reality has not changed. The truth is that, much like the periods
> >preceding significant social change in the past, we are engulfed in an
> >increasingly severe vicious circle (or downward spiral). By definition,
> >breaking free of any vicious circle has significant short-term costs, but
> >the longer the decision to break free is put off, the more costly (and
> >hence unlikely) it becomes. Those who seek to democratize society must
> >confront this basic strategic dilemma head on. Their fear that a rupture
> >with the status quo may be too costly is very understandable, but they 
>must
> >also understand that by exercising excessive prudence, they will 
>contribute
> >to the perpetuation of current conditions and preclude the possibility of
> >future change. What it comes down to, then, is the kind of 
>self-fulfilling
> >prophecy we choose to be a part of  one that maintains conditions as they
> >are, or one that builds toward an alternative future.
> >         Yet another strategic weakness exhibited by the Gore backers was
> >their fundamental misunderstanding of what it takes to prevail in 
>politics.
> >At an abstract level, the answer of course is power, the capacity to 
>force
> >others to act in a way that they would not otherwise. But what does this
> >mean practically? In electoral politics, it means being willing to deny
> >support to parties and candidates, even at the risk of causing them to 
>lose
> >and helping to elect something or someone worse. The Senate Democrats� 
>role
> >in the recent confirmation of Bush�s cabinet appointments illustrates the
> >point. Presented with some of the most reactionary appointments in recent
> >memory, the Democrats made little or no effort to oppose them. In fact,
> >most were confirmed unanimously. Disturbed by this weak response, some
> >Democratic loyalists reacted in anger. For example, Patricia Ireland, the
> >president of NOW, declared: �There is a fairly angry and experienced 
>crowd
> >of activists who can be mobilized to bring a lot of public pressure,
> >mainly, in my view, on the Democrats  to keep the Democrats from folding
> >into the center-right agenda.� In a similar vein, Julian Bond, the
> >president of the NAACP, stated: �Democrats need to know that their votes
> >are monitored just as the Republicans� votes are monitored.� But these
> >statements beg some very fundamental questions. How does one keep the
> >Democrats from folding into the center-right? What is the point of
> >monitoring votes if one lacks the capacity to sanction those votes? What
> >form would those sanctions take? Are these credible threats then? In 
>truth,
> >the only way to ensure that the Democrats do the right thing is to put 
>the
> >fear of losing in them. But like so many others, both Ireland and Bond 
>have
> >made it so clear that they prefer anything to the Republicans that they
> >have no real leverage on the Democrats. The only way to gain leverage 
>would
> >be to make their support conditional, which means being willing to cause
> >them to lose their seats, and neither is willing to do that.
> >         At least Ireland and Bond recognize the Democrats� culpability.
> >Far more of those who backed Gore have reacted to the Bush appointments 
>by
> >claiming that they provide clear proof that voting for Gore was the 
>correct
> >thing to do. But the logic underpinning this argument is very cynical. It
> >rests fundamentally on the claim that we have no choice but to vote the
> >Democrats into the White House because we cannot trust them to use the
> >power at their disposal to do the right thing in the Congress. It thus
> >comes down to a form of blackmail: �If you don�t vote for our candidate,
> >we�ll stand aside and unleash a right-winger on the country.� This is why
> >the frequent invocation of Supreme Court Justices Scalia and Thomas 
>during
> >the election rang so hollow. Somehow overlooked was the fact that the
> >Democrats stood by and let those appointments go through when they had 
>the
> >power to block them. None of this, of course, is particularly novel. It 
>is
> >simply a continuation of a pattern that has been gaining momentum for
> >several decades.
> >         So much for the strategic shortcomings of the Gore backers. What
> >about the Nader/Green option? Did it really represent a promising
> >alternative, one that could serve as the basis for a new progressive
> >political movement? In many respects, it did, and perhaps still does. In
> >the first place, Nader was unmistakably the most progressive presidential
> >candidate to come along in at least a half century, if not longer. He
> >offered a program that not only addressed many of the country�s deepest
> >problems, but offered concrete proposals for dealing with them. He was 
>thus
> >the first candidate in decades to advance a clear vision of the future 
>that
> >progressives could enthusiastically embrace. He also demonstrated a solid
> >grasp of what it takes to get there, including an understanding of how
> >power functions and is distributed in this society, the differences 
>between
> >short- and long-term costs, and the crucial role of social mobilization.
> >Indeed, in this last regard, he has strong links to the social forces 
>that
> >emerged in the Seattle demonstrations in November 1999, probably the most
> >significant instance of mass social mobilization to materialize in 
>decades.
> >Moreover, although he has never been elected to political office, he has
> >long experience in working with Congress and has an impressive list of
> >legislative accomplishments, certainly far more impressive than almost 
>any
> >member of Congress.
> >         All of this suggests that if one were to opt for a third party
> >candidate, this was going to be the time. If progressives remained 
>hesitant
> >in the face of this unique historical opportunity, and were even willing 
>to
> >actively undermine it by voting for Gore, it therefore likely meant that
> >they are fundamentally pessimistic about the prospects for a viable third
> >party emerging. But shouldn�t they be? Isn�t the history of third party
> >efforts in the U.S. pretty terrible? And isn�t this primarily because our
> >electoral system is simply inhospitable to third parties? Moreover, 
>doesn�t
> >it make more sense to work at the local level, and establish a third 
>party
> >presence there, before launching a campaign at the presidential level 
>where
> >the stakes are so high? In any case, isn�t the Green Party badly 
>organized
> >and therefore not a particularly promising vehicle? And haven�t Nader and
> >the Greens failed to reach out to African Americans and other people of
> >color, a crucial constituency in any progressive movement? For all of 
>these
> >reasons, would it not therefore make more sense to try to work through 
>the
> >Democratic Party?
> >         The truth is that the history of third party efforts in the U.S.
> >is terrible and it does have a great deal to do with the nature of our
> >electoral system. But this is not a reason to abandon all future efforts.
> >Indeed, the immutable status we give to our electoral system is actually
> >quite mind-boggling. Somehow, many of us are capable of condemning the 
>most
> >deep-seated socio-economic problems, but when it comes to a destructive
> >institutional feature of our political system, we accept it as permanent,
> >almost as though it were part of the natural order of things. This 
>attitude
> >is all the more astounding given the enormous benefits electoral reforms
> >such as proportional representation or even instant run-off voting would
> >instantly produce (e.g., a widening of our political options, greatly
> >expanded participation, and the elimination of the �spoiler� effect) and
> >the very fertile terrain for electoral reform created by the Florida
> >debacle. Ironically, it is even possible to take advantage of the current
> >electoral system to advance such reforms. In fact, the two states where 
>IRV
> >is being seriously considered are precisely those states where a strong
> >third party has created a spoiler effect: New Mexico and Alaska. In both
> >cases, it is the party that has been transformed from a winner into a 
>loser
> >(the Democrats in New Mexico and the Republicans in Alaska) that is most
> >interested in reform  here we see how �losing� can be a positive force 
>for
> >change. There is no reason, moreover, why this cannot also be 
>accomplished
> >at the national level, since the logic behind it is unaffected by scale.
> >         Any effort to establish a third party should also involve a 
>great
> >deal of work at the local level. However, this does not preclude 
>launching
> >a national, presidential campaign. Rather than being mutually exclusive
> >strategies, they can be mutually reinforcing. A good example of this is
> >Madison, Wisconsin, where an already strong local party, Progressive 
>Dane,
> >made a strategic decision to get involved in the Nader campaign precisely
> >because of the benefits it would have for building their organization. 
>And
> >as a result, they have experienced a surge of hundreds of new, very
> >actively engaged members. One reason this makes sense is the 
>de-politicized
> >nature of our political culture. Unfortunately, most Americans, to the
> >degree we are at all interested in politics, focus on the national level.
> >In other words, only a national, presidential campaign has the capacity 
>of
> >politicizing people rapidly. It is highly unlikely, for example, that the
> >tens of thousands of enthusiastic people who paid $10 each to attend
> >Nader�s �super rallies� would have been similarly inspired and energized 
>in
> >the absence of the Nader campaign. Thus, rather than slowly building a
> >local presence all across the country before launching a national 
>campaign,
> >it makes more sense to jump-start the whole process by advancing both
> >efforts simultaneously.
> >         The Green Party is also not particularly well organized or
> >experienced, and in fact, suffers from some not insignificant divisions.
> >But this is also not a sufficient reason to write it off. Arguing that we
> >cannot opt for a third party until such a party is strong, well 
>organized,
> >and experienced is to create a catch-22. If our involvement is essential 
>to
> >building such a party, waiting until it emerges before we lend it our
> >support is to ensure its demise. In any case, there is no reason to stake
> >our hopes on the Green Party as the only possible third party 
>alternative.
> >It is simply a vehicle, and a rather open one at that. The same is true 
>of
> >Nader. In fact, we should be very wary of attaching our political agenda
> >too closely to any individual. But no matter where we begin, we will have
> >to confront the reality that organizations are weak in their infancy. In
> >order to attain the strength of adulthood, they require substantial
> >nurturing, not a wait-and-see attitude.
> >         Nader and the Greens also did a very poor job of reaching out to
> >people of color, probably the greatest weakness of their campaign. In 
>fact,
> >it was not until very late in the game that Nader began to address their
> >concerns explicitly. And not surprisingly, he did poorly among minority
> >voters. Yet, there is no significant reason why this cannot change. 
>Despite
> >Nader�s limited efforts in this regard, he focused far more directly on
> >issues of concern to minority voters than Gore did, including support for
> >affirmative action, an end to racial profiling, an end to the war on 
>drugs,
> >abolition of the death penalty, closing the racial wealth gap, and even
> >reparations for slavery. Much of his poor showing among those voters thus
> >had as much to do with the suppression of his message as the failure to
> >deliver it more effectively. Moreover, unlike the Democratic Party, in
> >which there are major structural obstacles to advancing a program that
> >addresses the needs of people of color, there are no such obstacles in 
>the
> >Green Party.
> >         But despite all this, shouldn�t Nader have sought to advance his
> >progressive agenda through the Democratic Party instead, given that it is
> >organizationally more developed and still has the most significant
> >progressive following of any political party? A number of people have in
> >fact advanced this argument, including Representative Barney Frank of
> >Massachusetts. Invariably, they point to Jesse Jackson as the best model 
>of
> >what can be accomplished. This is a curious choice of models, however,
> >since Jackson�s experience is a far better example of the limitations of
> >the Democratic Party. As noted above, Jackson�s rainbow coalition set off
> >alarm bells in the party and the current political leadership went to 
>great
> >lengths to ensure that it was defeated. Recent developments, moreover,
> >suggest that the chances of such an effort succeeding are more limited 
>than
> >ever (e.g., the naming of super fundraiser Terry McAuliffe as the new
> >chairman of the Democratic National Committee and the DLC�s insistence 
>that
> >a main reason for Gore�s defeat was his excessively populist campaign).
> >None of this rules out the possibility of progressives taking control of
> >the party. That possibility, however, is extremely small and it would
> >require somehow surmounting the overwhelming and growing power that 
>moneyed
> >interests have in the party. It would also require a radical change in
> >strategy on the part of progressive Democrats. Ironically, perhaps the 
>one
> >factor that could significantly strengthen their leverage vis-�-vis their
> >internal party rivals is the emergence of a strong third political party.
> >
> >
> >Notes
> >
> >  John Nichols, �The Great Debate. Nader Has Inspired Bitter Debates on 
>the
> >Left. Isn�t it Terrific?,� In These Times, November 13, 2000.
> >  Quoted in Alexander Cockburn and Jeffery St. Clair, Al Gore: A User�s
> >Manual (London: Verso, 2000).
> >  On media coverage of the Nader campaign, see Ralph Nader, �My Untold
> >Story,� Brill�s Content, February 2001, and Robert McChesney, et al., 
>�The
> >Nader Campaign and the Future of U.S. Left Electoral Politics,� Monthly
> >Review, Vol. 52, No. 9, February 2001.
> >  See for example the extraordinary letter by Representative John Conyers
> >to The Nation (November 20, 2000).
> >  Aside from the large-scale disenfranchisement of African American 
>voters,
> >a big part of the reason Gore lost the all-important state of Florida was
> >the vast number of Democrats and self-described liberals who voted for
> >Bush. In fact, while 24,000 Democrats voted for Nader, more than twelve
> >times as many (308,000) voted for Bush, and among self-described 
>liberals,
> >the ratio was 191,000 to 34,000 (or nearly 6 to 1). Bush also beat Gore
> >among white women (53% to 44%) and voters 65 and older (51% to 47%) (see
> >Jim Hightower, �How Florida Democrats Torpedoed Gore,� in Salon.com,
> >November 27, 2000). Similar trends prevailed nationwide (see the CNN exit
> >poll at www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/epolls/US/P000.html). In fact, 
>according
> >to a Voter News Service exit poll, only 47% of the Nader voters would 
>have
> >voted for Gore in a two-way race, while 21% would have voted for Bush and
> >30% would not have voted at all.
> >  William Greider, �Nader and the Politics of Fear,� The Nation, March 
>12,
> >2001.
> >  Ibid.
> >  Thomas Ferguson and Joel Rogers, Right Turn: The Decline of the 
>Democrats
> >and the Future of American Politics (New York: Hill and Wang, 1986).
> >  Ruy Teixeira and Joel Rogers, America�s Forgotten Majority: Why the 
>White
> >Working Class Still Matters (New York: Basic Books, 2000).
> >  Carter won only 48% of the union vote and only 44% of the working class
> >vote. Deepening a process that had gained momentum throughout the decade,
> >there was also a dramatic decrease in voter turnout among lower-class
> >groups. Frances Fox Piven and Richard Cloward, Why Americans Still Don�t
> >Vote and Why Politicians Want it That Way (Boston: Beacon Press, 2000),
> >pp.116, 121-125.
> >  Piven and Cloward, Why Americans Still Don�t Vote, p.150.
> >  Ferguson and Rogers, Right Turn, p.202.
> >  Teixera and Rogers, America�s Forgotten Majority.
> >  Jesse Jackson Jr., �George Bush�s Democrats,� The Nation, January 22,
> >2001.
> >  Ruth Conniff, �Cancel the Honeymoon,� The Progressive, February 2001.
> >  Ibid.
> >  This may also explain why no one reacted when Joseph Lieberman declared
> >on national television a week before the election that he would have 
>voted
> >to confirm Robert Bork if he had been a Senator at the time. Houston
> >Chronicle, October 30, 2000.
> >  �Ruth Conniff referees a match between Barney Frank and Ralph Nader,� 
>The
> >Progressive, November 2000.
> >  Recently, Robert Reich has become so disillusioned as to conclude that
> >the Democratic Party is dead. See �The Democrats Aren�t �Just Resting�,�
> >Washington Post, March 11, 2001.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Ben Manski
> >   Green Party of the United States
> >   Steering Committee
> >       manski@...
> >       http://www.gp-us.org/
>
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1998
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-01 02:03:57
Subject:Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: [GreenMovement] Barrett's Strong Defense of Nader/LaDuke 2000
Message:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


>From: "JOSEPH MOSLEY" <joemosley1@...>
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: [GreenMovement] Barrett's Strong 
>Defense of Nader/LaDuke 2000
>Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 01:29:32 -0400
>
>
>
>
> >From: Ben Manski <manski@...>
> >Reply-To: GreenMovement@yahoogroups.com
> >To: greenmovement@yahoogroups.com, greens@yahoogroups.com,
> >usgp-COO@...
> >Subject: [GreenMovement] Barrett's Strong Defense of Nader/LaDuke 2000
> >Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:47:12 -0500
> >
> >
> >�Strategic Lessons of the 2000 Presidential Election:
> >A Pro-Nader Perspective�
> >
> >Constellations, Volume 8, Number 3, September 2001, pp.348-363.
> >
> >Patrick S. Barrett
> >Administrative Director
> >A. E. Havens Center for the Study of Social Structure and Social Change
> >University of Wisconsin-Madison
> >Introduction
> >
> >The recent presidential election was a historically significant one for a
> >number of reasons. Perhaps the most obvious was the controversial manner 
>in
> >which George W. Bush assumed office. Another reason, however, was the
> >division and rancor the election produced among supporters of Al Gore and
> >Ralph Nader. More than its effect on the outcome of the election itself,
> >the deeper significance of the Gore-Nader controversy was the debate over
> >political strategy that it generated on the left. It has been a long time
> >since the left has engaged in such a debate, and its occurrence should
> >therefore be seen as a positive development. At the same time, the fact
> >that U.S. progressives are largely unaccustomed to thinking strategically
> >may help to explain why the debate has been conducted at such a low level
> >of sophistication and with such little forthrightness, especially on the
> >part of those who backed Gore and the Democrats. Indeed, it is ironic 
>that
> >the most common criticism of Nader supporters made by the backers of Gore
> >namely, that the former are strategically shortsighted, irresponsible, 
>and
> >even destructive  may be much more accurately applied to themselves.
> >What follows, then, is primarily intended as a critique of the pro-Gore
> >position. But it is also intended as a defense of the pro-Nader position,
> >which contains some of the essential elements of a long-term strategy for
> >bringing about real progressive change, even if not ultimately embodied 
>in
> >Nader or the Greens. Both of these objectives can be accomplished by
> >addressing four fundamental and interrelated questions: (1) Where are 
>we?;
> >(2) How did we get here?; (3) Where do we want to go?; and (4) How do we
> >get there? Together, these four questions are indispensable to any effort
> >aimed at devising a long-term strategy for progressive change. All four
> >questions, moreover, were nearly universally neglected, if not actively
> >avoided, by the backers of Gore and the Democrats.
> >Where Are We?
> >Beginning with this question is crucial, for if we do not engage in an
> >accurate assessment of our current circumstances, we have little chance 
>of
> >moving forward, much less getting very far. Thus, before we determine 
>where
> >we want to go, or the steps we need to take to get there, we need to
> >understand our point of departure. Clearly, there is insufficient space
> >here for more than a very cursory response to this question. The first 
>and
> >most obvious observation, then, is that ours is an extremely inequitable
> >society. Indeed, among all the advanced economies of the world, the U.S.
> >has the most unequal distribution of wealth and income, the least 
>economic
> >mobility, the longest hours logged by its workers, one of the highest 
>rates
> >of poverty, one of the most regressive tax structures, and the least
> >developed welfare state. Our society is also characterized by severe 
>racial
> >inequality, as African Americans, Latinos, and other racial minorities
> >suffer the disproportionate effect of these disparities. Moreover, the
> >degree of inequality has worsened dramatically over the last 25-30 years.
> >         With 25% of the world�s prisoners (a disproportionate and rising
> >number of whom are people of color), the U.S. can also boast the highest
> >level of incarceration in the world. It is also one of the few nations 
>that
> >still employ the death penalty, which is applied in a highly 
>discriminatory
> >manner. In addition, our industrial relations system is heavily skewed in
> >favor of employers and, not surprisingly, we have one of the weakest 
>labor
> >movements. In few developed countries, moreover, are the rights of women
> >more limited and precarious. We also consume an inordinate proportion of
> >the world�s natural resources, in the process destroying our natural
> >environment at an increasingly alarming rate. Not content to confine the
> >ill effects of these practices to our own citizens, we seek to impose 
>them
> >on the rest of the world via a foreign policy whose overriding concern is
> >the expansion of U.S. military might and corporate interests.
> >         Our political system only serves to reinforce these outcomes. 
>Our
> >winner-take-all electoral system limits our political options to two
> >political parties, which, although not identical, are strikingly similar
> >and have grown increasingly so over the years. In few other developed
> >countries are the political rules of the game so skewed and the resulting
> >set of political options so limited. The two main political parties,
> >moreover, have come to serve an increasingly narrow and privileged 
>segment
> >of the population, made possible in part by the rising corporate 
>domination
> >of our system of campaign finance and our legislative process. At the 
>same
> >time, the growing corporate domination and concentration of our mass 
>media
> >has had the effect of severely constricting our national political 
>debate.
> >It should therefore come as no surprise that approximately half of the
> >voting age population does not vote in presidential elections, and that
> >those who do are disproportionately white and privileged. In fact, over 
>the
> >last forty years, voter turnout in the U.S. has been falling steadily,
> >especially among the least privileged.
> >         In the face of such a reality, it would seem that the only
> >appropriate response is outrage. In this regard, the Nader campaign
> >performed a service that has been long overdue. It relentlessly drew
> >attention to the fundamental problems confronting the country and 
>demanded
> >that they be addressed. The Democrats, by contrast, steadfastly avoided
> >discussion of these problems and their own role in causing them. So too 
>did
> >many of their supporters on the left. Indeed, rather than a
> >�lesser-of-two-evils� approach to the election, what many progressives
> >engaged in can more accurately be described as one of �see no evil, hear 
>no
> >evil, speak no evil.� In reality, the Democrats, especially under the
> >Clinton-Gore administration, have veered significantly to the right,
> >adopting core Republican positions as their own and in some cases going
> >further with them than the Republicans had been able to do themselves. 
>The
> >most notorious example of this is the 1996 welfare reform bill, which
> >gutted one of the central accomplishments of the New Deal.
> >But there are many others, including a hard-line approach to crime and 
>drug
> >abuse that has led to a doubling of the prison population in the last 
>eight
> >years, an enthusiastic embrace of the death penalty despite the
> >overwhelming evidence that it kills innocent people and is racially
> >discriminatory, an obsession with balanced budgets that has depended upon
> >cuts in social spending, a foreign policy that was as militaristic and
> >anti-humanitarian as that of its Republican predecessors while even more
> >devoted to advancing the economic interests of Wall Street and corporate
> >America, and an environmental record that was so bad as to prompt David
> >Brower to conclude that �Gore and Clinton have done more to harm the
> >environment than Reagan and Bush combined.� Under Clinton and Gore, the
> >Democrats also became far more adept at corporate fund-raising,
> >significantly closing the gap with their Republican rivals. And not
> >surprisingly, inequality continued to grow, despite the vaunted economic
> >expansion of the 1990s.
> >The list is longer, but this should have been enough to produce outrage 
>on
> >the part of progressives. Such outrage, however, was in amazingly short
> >supply. Nor was there much anger over the fact that there was a 
>systematic
> >effort to silence the one candidate who was attempting to draw attention 
>to
> >the administration�s abysmal record, Ralph Nader. Indeed, throughout most
> >of the summer of 2000, Gore and his supporters worked hard to deny Nader 
>a
> >national forum. They were aided in this effort by the national media, 
>which
> >largely ignored him. To the degree that the media did cover his campaign,
> >it was to portray him as a �spoiler,� never to report on the substance of
> >his positions. In the early fall, with Gore trailing in the polls, the
> >media and the Democrats did begin to pay more attention to Nader, but 
>only
> >to vilify him as a destructive egotist and to insist that there was no
> >alternative to �the Party.� Simultaneously, the distortion of the
> >Democrats� and Gore�s record reached new heights. Gore was consistently
> >portrayed as a champion of civil rights, labor rights, women�s rights, 
>the
> >environment, and gay rights. Given Gore�s appalling record in all of 
>these
> >areas, this was a particularly cynical effort. It was all the more 
>cynical
> >given the Gore supporters� indignation over Nader�s supposed exaggeration
> >of the similarities between Bush and Gore. In truth, Nader did 
>exaggerate,
> >but not by much and certainly far less than the Gore supporters in 
>claiming
> >a difference between the two candidates.
> >In their lionizing of Gore, his supporters somehow forgot about his 84%
> >pro-life voting record, his steadfast support for free trade, his close
> >ties to tobacco and oil companies and weapons manufacturers, his efforts 
>to
> >end affirmative action for federal contractors through his �reinventing
> >government� program, his repeated betrayal of pledges to protect the
> >environment, and his long history as a gay basher. Also forgotten was the
> >fact that it was Gore who first race-baited Dukakis in the 1988 
>Democratic
> >primaries with the Willie Horton story and who made it a personal mission
> >to undermine the Jackson campaign in the 1988 New York primary. There was
> >also little reaction when Gore openly bragged about his support for the
> >death penalty, his key role in pushing through the 1996 Welfare Reform
> >Bill, his unbending support for sanctions on Iraq and military aid to
> >Colombia, or his call for an increase in defense spending twice that
> >proposed by Bush. Nor was there much reaction when he chose Joseph
> >Lieberman (one of the most conservative and pro-business members of the
> >Senate) as his running mate and former Commerce Secretary William Daley 
>(a
> >leading figure in the administration�s effort to promote free trade) as 
>his
> >campaign chair person. And there was a deafening silence when Lieberman
> >declared to the Wall Street Journal that big business need not worry 
>about
> >the semi-populist elements of Gore�s convention speech, since it was 
>simply
> >rhetoric designed to win votes.
> >The response of most Gore backers to the outcome of the election has been
> >consistent with their attitude during the campaign, as they have heaped
> >considerable abuse on Nader as one of the two culprits who denied Gore 
>his
> >rightful victory, the other being Bush�s allies on the U.S. Supreme 
>Court.
> >While there is strong evidence for the latter, the former claim is yet
> >another example of denying reality. Unfortunately, in the hierarchy of
> >reasons explaining Gore�s �defeat,� Nader ranks quite low. Far more
> >significant was the fundamental weakness of the Gore campaign itself, 
>which
> >was unable to win even Gore�s home state of Tennessee or Clinton�s home
> >state of Arkansas. This weakness was perhaps in part a negative reaction 
>to
> >Clinton�s personal behavior and the odd perception that Bush was the
> >candidate with greater personal integrity. But it more likely reflected 
>the
> >fact that there were so few discernible differences between the two main
> >candidates on bread and butter economic issues, particularly to the white
> >working class. Indeed, voter turnout was the third lowest in the last 75
> >years. To be sure, there was a slight increase over 1996 (from 49% to 
>51%),
> >but the class composition of the turnout was if anything more skewed than
> >ever in favor of the upper 20% of income earners. Moreover, one of the 
>main
> >reasons for the increased turnout was Nader. In fact, in several states, 
>he
> >helped to elect Democratic congressional candidates.
> >While a few Democrats have acknowledged the positive role played by 
>Nader,
> >most have treated him as a pariah. In striking contrast to their posture
> >toward the new administration, which they have welcomed in a remarkably
> >�bipartisan� manner, they have been determined to deny Nader any
> >opportunity to weigh in on policy debates in which they are presumably on
> >the same side. There are two basic motivations for this posture. One is 
>to
> >deny their own culpability in their party�s defeat and the sorry state of
> >the nation. And the other is to send a message to anyone who dares to 
>offer
> >a progressive alternative to the Democrats that they will pay heavily.
> >Ironically, Nader in this way performed yet another service by exposing 
>the
> >Democratic Party for what it is. Indeed, if there were reason to be
> >skeptical about the party�s democratic convictions prior to this 
>election,
> >their analysis of the election outcome has provided further reason for
> >doubt.
> >How Did We Get Here?
> >Thus, if we are serious about achieving progressive change, we have to
> >engage in a more candid and critical assessment of our contemporary
> >reality. But we also need to understand how we got here. For without an
> >accurate assessment of what led us to our present circumstances, we are
> >likely to continue down the same path, with the same or worse results.
> >Clearly, many of the same factors are in play, as social, economic, and
> >political inequalities have a way of perpetuating themselves. However, a
> >major part of the explanation for what got us here once again lies with 
>the
> >Democratic Party. In this respect, Nader again did a far better job of
> >assessing reality than Gore. But Nader was actually too soft on the
> >Democrats, repeatedly suggesting that they had departed from their
> >progressive roots. The reality is that the Democratic Party never had 
>such
> >roots and was never a champion of the rights of working people and racial
> >minorities.
> >During the twentieth century, there have been only two moments when the
> >Democrats have presided over major progressive change: the New Deal of 
>FDR
> >and the Great Society programs of Lyndon Johnson. Two conclusions can be
> >drawn from these experiences. One is that only pressure from below has 
>ever
> >moved the Democrats in a progressive direction. The second is that the
> >lengths to which they can be moved are greatly limited by their ties to 
>big
> >business interests. In both instances, the Democrats were forced to 
>accept
> >change in response to massive popular mobilization. And in both cases, 
>for
> >a variety of reasons, important segments of business were willing to
> >tolerate some degree of progressive change. However, that willingness was
> >both limited and short-lived. In fact, many of the more far-reaching
> >initiatives, particularly under the New Deal, were never realized, while
> >many of the accomplishments were quickly subjected to attack and, before
> >long, reversal. In the case of the New Deal, the possibilities for change
> >were also severely limited by the key role played by southern racists in
> >the party.
> >Particularly over the last 25-30 years, these two factors have changed in
> >such a way as to cause the Democratic Party to move ever more rightward.
> >The labor movement, which was the most important popular impetus behind 
>the
> >New Deal, has grown steadily weaker since the mid-1950s and has assumed a
> >largely conservative posture. Moreover, with the exception of the 1972
> >presidential election, it has given its support to the Democrats
> >unconditionally. Meanwhile, African Americans, whose mass mobilization
> >during the 1950s and 1960s was the driving force behind Johnson�s Great
> >Society programs and triggered the departure of most of the party�s
> >southern racist contingent, have since become a demobilized and captured
> >constituency. As a result, the capacity of both groups to influence the
> >direction of the Democratic Party has diminished significantly.
> >Simultaneously, the party has grown increasingly dependent upon big
> >business, which itself has grown less and less tolerant of even the most
> >moderate proposals for change. This process became most evident in the
> >early 1980s following the election of Ronald Reagan and the establishment
> >of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) in early 1985. Founded by a
> >group of primarily southern conservative Democrats, the DLC set out to 
>move
> >the Party to the right by strengthening its ties to business, while
> >distancing it from labor, African Americans, and the poor. This effort 
>came
> >to fruition in 1992 with the election of Clinton and Gore and was further
> >consolidated with the nomination of Gore and Lieberman in 2000.
> >         The DLC�s main argument for pushing the party to the right is 
>that
> >the country itself has moved rightward and that in order to win 
>elections,
> >the party needs to respond to what the voters want. A corollary to this
> >argument is that the Republicans have also moved to the right and that 
>the
> >Democrats must do whatever it takes to keep them out of the White House,
> >including following in their footsteps. But there is virtually no 
>substance
> >to this argument. Survey data indicate that, if anything, the American
> >electorate has become more, not less, �liberal� in its attitudes. In 
>fact,
> >to the degree that Americans have come to oppose government activism, it
> >has not been because they are hostile to government action  to the
> >contrary, they believe that the government should be actively involved in
> >problem-solving  but rather because they have become disillusioned with 
>the
> >government�s capacity for problem-solving. Much of that disillusionment,
> >moreover, can be attributed to the Democrats, who for decades have grown
> >increasingly unwilling or unable to respond to the economic aspirations 
>of
> >poor and working class voters and instead have responded to the demands 
>of
> >the wealthy.
> >         Furthermore, rather than simply responding to the rightward 
>shift
> >of the Republicans, the Democrats have at times initiated the move to the
> >right. Indeed, it was the Carter administration that launched 
>Reaganomics,
> >fully two years before Reagan came into office. And it is no surprise 
>that
> >Carter lost to Reagan in 1980, with Carter offering such a dismal option 
>to
> >the working class. Once Reagan was in office, the Democrats also went out
> >of their way to accommodate his policy initiatives, giving him bigger tax
> >cuts and increases in military spending than he had asked for, and much 
>of
> >what he requested in social spending cuts. And rather than responding to
> >the growing discontent among the poor, working class, and racial
> >minorities, they instead engaged in a heightened competition with the
> >Republicans for gaining the backing of business.
> >The 1984 campaign of Walter Mondale was itself a revealing case study of
> >the party�s increasing domination by business and its growing distance 
>from
> >its popular electoral constituencies. Particularly striking was the
> >campaign�s deliberate efforts to limit voter turnout among the poor and
> >racial minorities, for fear that it would strengthen the candidacy of 
>Jesse
> >Jackson. Even after winning the nomination, Mondale continued to oppose
> >registration efforts despite a 250-page study written by his aides that
> >concluded that �the only way Mondale can win is by pitching his appeal to
> >the white working class and minorities.� The main problem, of course, was
> >the effect such an appeal would have on the Party�s business backers.
> >Thomas Ferguson and Joel Rogers described the situation well:
> >As the Mondale campaign made clear, virtually no Democratic business 
>group
> >has a stake in expanding the party�s mass base. To gain the support of
> >millions and millions of poor nonvoters and marginally identifying blue-
> >and white-collar workers, the Democrats would actually have to offer them
> >something  perhaps a progressive tax code, or full employment, or
> >unionization with real power for the rank and file, or enhanced social
> >programs. [But] the party�s dominant business elites are not prepared to 
>do
> >this.
> >Constrained by his business backers, Mondale thus offered nothing to 
>those
> >voters who could have given the Democrats a victory. Instead, he offered
> >only fiscal restraint and a promise to increase taxes. Coupled with one 
>of
> >the largest political business cycles ever engineered, this was enough to
> >produce a landslide victory for Reagan. In the wake of this defeat, party
> >leaders saw it as an opportunity to push even harder for the strategy 
>that
> >had produced it. Indeed, it was in early 1985 that the DLC was founded.
> >Moreover, instead of rewarding Jesse Jackson with greater influence for 
>his
> >loyalty to the party and the new voters he recruited, the white 
>Democratic
> >establishment (in a preview of their treatment of Nader in 2000) 
>viciously
> >scape-goated him for losing the election. In 1986, party nominating rules
> >were also re-written in an effort to �moderate� the party�s image and
> >advance a candidate that could appeal to conservative white voters.
> >It was not until 1992, however, that the DLC succeeded in getting one of
> >its own elected in the person of Bill Clinton. But Clinton�s victory 
>should
> >not be seen as a vindication of the DLC�s conservative strategy. Clinton
> >received fewer votes than Dukakis had in 1988 and would never have won if
> >not for an economic recession and the presence of a strong third 
>candidate,
> >Ross Perot, who received millions of votes from the very voting bloc that
> >has abandoned the Democrats in droves over the last 25 years: low-income
> >whites. Apparently oblivious to the real significance of the election,
> >Clinton very quickly dedicated his administration to the service of
> >business interests, thereby producing the fiasco of the 1994 
>congressional
> >elections, in which a rightwing Republican cabal took control of the
> >Congress. Continuing the pattern established by his party since 1980,
> >Clinton responded to this outcome by turning even more to the right. 
>Aided
> >once again by the presence of Ross Perot, a less than stimulating
> >Republican candidate in Bob Dole, and the fact that the Congressional
> >Republicans that he had set out to imitate had become thoroughly
> >discredited, Clinton was able to win reelection in 1996. Voter turnout,
> >however, was the lowest since 1924. Given this history, it was not
> >particularly surprising that the 2000 Democratic ticket consisted of Gore
> >and Lieberman, two darlings of the DLC. It was also not surprising that
> >Gore, despite benefiting from an unprecedented economic expansion, ran a
> >very close and uninspired race against George W. Bush, arguably the least
> >prepared presidential candidate during this century. And it came as no
> >shock that the southerner Gore did abysmally in the south and that the
> >Democratic leadership made no effort to challenge the disenfranchisement 
>of
> >African American voters in Florida and instead worked to diffuse their
> >protests.
> >The Democrats, then, have played a major role in producing the 
>increasingly
> >rightward shift of politics in the United States. By adopting Republican
> >policy positions, they have legitimated those positions and enabled the
> >Republicans to move ever farther to the right, with little fear of 
>becoming
> >politically marginal. When in power, moreover, they more effectively
> >realize Republican policies by paralyzing groups that are reluctant to
> >oppose a Democratic President. And by alienating low-income voters, they
> >pave the way for Republican victories. As Jesse Jackson Jr. recently put
> >it, the move down this path has been �aided by Democrats. In 1992 a
> >conservative Democrat, Bill Clinton, selected an even more conservative
> >running mate, Al Gore, who in 2000 selected an even more conservative
> >running mate, Joseph Lieberman. By helping to shift the Democratic Party
> >and the country further right, a very conservative George W. Bush could
> >select an ultraconservative Dick Cheney as his running mate  and win.�
> >
> >Where Do We Want to Go?
> >Now that we have a better sense of where we are and how we got here, the
> >next task is to figure out where we want to go. How we answer this 
>question
> >may be the most critical task of all, since it will dictate how we act.
> >Indeed, in addressing this question, we are beginning to speak more
> >directly about strategy. This is because strategic action consists of two
> >basic elements: conceiving of a vision of the future; and devising a 
>series
> >of steps aimed at getting there. Without a vision of the future, 
>political
> >action is aimless and very unlikely to be successful. It certainly is not
> >strategic in any meaningful sense of the word.
> >         Unfortunately, the American left has by and large ignored this
> >question. The vast majority of us have little sense of where we want to 
>go
> >or of the future we would like to bring into being. At least, we do not
> >devote much discussion to it and we certainly do not make the effort to
> >think systematically about what it would take to make it a reality.
> >Instead, the greater part of our political activity, by far, is devoted 
>to
> >reaction, to opposing or trying to limit the worst effects of things we 
>do
> >not want, rather than to working proactively to construct an alternative
> >reality. Our political orientation is heavily geared toward the short 
>term,
> >with our highest goal set on winning the next election. More often than
> >not, we find ourselves in a defensive holding action, and we devote 
>little
> >thought to the long-term implications of our actions.
> >We also make very little effort to influence the program of the political
> >organizations and elected officials who presumably represent us. Indeed, 
>we
> >demonstrate an extraordinary willingness to demand, and accept, very 
>little
> >from them, and we tolerate a political dialogue that is superficial and
> >even repressive. Again, there was perhaps no better example of this than
> >the treatment of Nader in the 2000 election. Instead of welcoming a
> >candidate who offered an unusually elaborate and straightforward program
> >for change, even if only because of the effect that discussion of that
> >program could have on our national political debate, far too many of us
> >were willing to stand by and let the focus be trained entirely on his
> >supposed role as a �spoiler.� His program, meanwhile, was systematically
> >ignored, if not suppressed.
> >To some degree, the defensive posture of American progressives is very
> >understandable, particularly since we inhabit an environment in which our
> >enemies are strong and determined to implement very undesirable
> >initiatives. The irony, however, is that by focusing so much attention on
> >containing our enemies, rather than on conceptualizing and working toward
> >the construction of a better society, we can end up hastening the
> >realization of the very things we oppose. This is because we are more
> >likely to find ourselves losing sight of and compromising our positive
> >goals and thus allowing for the kind of scenario described above, in 
>which
> >the Democratic Party can pull us ever more rightward, because the
> >Republicans, themselves aided by the Democrats, are always a little 
>worse.
> >We can therefore easily find ourselves in a vicious, downward spiral in
> >which our actions serve only to reinforce a continual worsening of
> >conditions.
> >None of this is to say that we should refrain from being negative, in the
> >sense of engaging in a critique of contemporary society. Our vision of a
> >positive alternative reality is very much contained in our critique of
> >things as they are, since the nature and depth of that critique will 
>point
> >to what it is that we seek to change and how much of a change we seek to
> >achieve. One vision of the future, based for example on the critique
> >advanced in the first section of this article, might be characterized as
> >social democratic or perhaps democratic socialist. This would involve
> >constructing a society in which inequalities of wealth and income are
> >limited, poverty is all but nonexistent, health care is universal, 
>taxation
> >is progressive, racial minorities, women, and gays are full members of
> >society, unions are powerful and democratic, the death penalty is
> >abolished, the prison population is vastly outnumbered by the university
> >student population, foreign policy is humanitarian and democratic, the
> >defense budget is geared toward defense and thus radically reduced, the
> >environment is strongly protected, the media permit an open and wide
> >ranging political debate, political campaigns are publicly financed, and
> >the party system provides a wide range of political options, including 
>some
> >that represent the least privileged members of society.
> >Of course, many may not feel comfortable with this kind of social
> >democratic or democratic socialist vision and would prefer a future that 
>is
> >not such a departure from our present circumstances. Some may wish to 
>work
> >for only one or two of these objectives and may be very willing to
> >sacrifice the remainder in order to accomplish them. These differences 
>may
> >tell us as much about who we are as anything else. Some of us clearly
> >benefit a great deal from our current conditions and thus are less
> >interested in seeing such changes realized. But even among those who do 
>not
> >define our interests so narrowly, there will be major differences. 
>Indeed,
> >the democratization of society will unavoidably require the construction 
>of
> >a diverse coalition of interests, many of which may not easily join 
>forces
> >with each other, but which can nevertheless find enough common ground to
> >advance a mutually beneficial program of change. On the other hand, our
> >failure to embrace a program of change may have nothing to do with our
> >interests, and instead reflect the nature of our expectations. In other
> >words, some of us may have simply given up on the possibility of change 
>and
> >do not consider the above vision of the future as a feasible or realistic
> >one, however desirable it may be. But whatever our particular response to
> >this question, the fact remains that unless and until we address it, 
>there
> >is little or no chance that we will move forward, wherever or however far
> >we end up deciding we want to go. With that in mind, we turn now to the
> >fourth and final question.
> >How Do We Get There?
> >This may be the most difficult question of all, since it is a lot easier 
>to
> >engage in a critique of contemporary society, or elaborate a vision of a
> >future society, than it is to come up with a viable strategy for moving
> >forward. It is also likely the question on which we have reflected with 
>the
> >least care. This was clearly illustrated in the 2000 election, and in
> >particular in the analysis offered by the backers of Gore. To review, 
>that
> >analysis consisted of the claim that the only real option was to vote for
> >Gore, given that Nader was not going to win and that Gore, however
> >undesirable, was preferable to Bush. The mantra of the Gore campaign was
> >therefore �a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush� and anyone who did not
> >understand this was labeled as strategically unsophisticated,
> >irresponsible, and even destructive. While voting for Gore was touted as 
>an
> >eminently strategic act, voting for Nader was seen at best as a symbolic
> >action, or a protest vote, certainly not one informed by a strategic
> >understanding of the stakes involved. However, just as the Gore 
>supporters
> >never reflected on where we are, how we got here, or where we want to go,
> >they never carefully examined this claim to strategic insight. Their
> >critique of Nader supporters, it turns out, would have been more
> >appropriately applied to themselves.
> >In the first place, the focus of the pro-Gore option was entirely
> >short-term in character. It was at best a defensive maneuver with no real
> >end game  yet another holding action designed to prevent a Republican 
>from
> >assuming office and totally devoid of any proposal for what to do the day
> >after the election. At virtually no point did anyone consider, much less
> >explain, how voting for Gore fit into a long-term strategy of bringing
> >about progressive change. In reality, there were basically only three
> >reasons for voting for Gore, only two of which made any real sense. One
> >reason is that you benefit from the existing inequalities in US society 
>and
> >understand that voting for Gore would help to preserve, if not increase,
> >those inequalities. This group actually behaved in a very strategically
> >rational manner and, of course, was well represented among those who
> >contributed so generously to Gore�s campaign. A second reason is that 
>while
> >you dislike what Gore and the Democrats have come to represent, you have
> >largely given up hope that there will ever be any better option. This too
> >is rational, though it is very cynical and can hardly be called 
>strategic.
> >The final reason is that while you dislike Gore and the Democrats, you
> >believe (or hold out hope) that voting for Gore is somehow consistent 
>with
> >getting something better than Gore. This reason is also not strategic and
> >the rationality behind it is dubious at best.
> >This last group of voters in particular made very little effort to 
>examine
> >the long-term implications of their actions. If they had, they might have
> >realized what was the very best-case scenario of the vote-for-Gore 
>option:
> >a Gore victory in 2000; his reelection in 2004 (because the same logic of
> >preventing a Republican victory would have prevailed and the best 
>candidate
> >for that is an incumbent President); a victory by Lieberman in 2008 (as 
>the
> >heir apparent); and Lieberman�s reelection in 2012. It bears repeating 
>that
> >this would have been the very best-case scenario, a quarter century of
> >Clinton, Gore, and Lieberman. Not only would this have been unlikely; had
> >it occurred, it would also have dealt a severe blow to the chances of
> >constructing a progressive future. That is, unless it finally provided
> >indisputable evidence to enough Democratic Party loyalists that a third
> >party alternative was now necessary. This, however, is a �things have to
> >get worse before they get better� scenario that is neither promising nor
> >desirable.
> >         A closely related failure was the Gore backers� basic
> >misunderstanding of the difference between long-term and short-term 
>costs.
> >They aggressively reprimanded Nader supporters for supposedly ignoring 
>the
> >costs of their actions, particularly the costs borne by the weakest 
>members
> >of society who would pay most dearly for a Bush victory. This argument 
>has
> >a powerful emotional appeal, as it touches upon what should be at the 
>very
> >center of our political decision-making  the effects that our actions 
>have
> >on the weakest among us. No one backing Nader should have taken this
> >argument lightly. Yet, it artificially absolves the Gore backers of their
> >own responsibility by failing to consider the long-term costs of their
> >actions. If we are really concerned about people who are suffering and 
>want
> >to be certain that our decisions do the least harm to them, we cannot 
>focus
> >only on the short-term. We also have to consider the harm that will be 
>done
> >to them in the long term. We must ask ourselves whether the actions
> >designed to minimize short-term costs produce far greater costs in the
> >long-term by foregoing the possibility of future change. In other words,
> >will those actions reduce the likelihood that the weakest among us will
> >become full members of society and realize their life chances? These
> >questions (which are more relevant than ever in light of the recent
> >evolution of the Democratic Party), were virtually never raised, much 
>less
> >addressed, by the supporters of Al Gore.
> >         It deserves noting that no significant social change was ever
> >accomplished anywhere by focusing exclusively on short-term costs. 
>Indeed,
> >it is no exaggeration to state that in every case of significant social,
> >political, and economic progress in the history of human existence, the
> >protagonists of change have had to reject the argument that they should 
>be
> >careful and not rock the boat, because the balance of forces is against
> >them, things are unlikely to get better, and they can easily get worse.
> >That reality has not changed. The truth is that, much like the periods
> >preceding significant social change in the past, we are engulfed in an
> >increasingly severe vicious circle (or downward spiral). By definition,
> >breaking free of any vicious circle has significant short-term costs, but
> >the longer the decision to break free is put off, the more costly (and
> >hence unlikely) it becomes. Those who seek to democratize society must
> >confront this basic strategic dilemma head on. Their fear that a rupture
> >with the status quo may be too costly is very understandable, but they 
>must
> >also understand that by exercising excessive prudence, they will 
>contribute
> >to the perpetuation of current conditions and preclude the possibility of
> >future change. What it comes down to, then, is the kind of 
>self-fulfilling
> >prophecy we choose to be a part of  one that maintains conditions as they
> >are, or one that builds toward an alternative future.
> >         Yet another strategic weakness exhibited by the Gore backers was
> >their fundamental misunderstanding of what it takes to prevail in 
>politics.
> >At an abstract level, the answer of course is power, the capacity to 
>force
> >others to act in a way that they would not otherwise. But what does this
> >mean practically? In electoral politics, it means being willing to deny
> >support to parties and candidates, even at the risk of causing them to 
>lose
> >and helping to elect something or someone worse. The Senate Democrats� 
>role
> >in the recent confirmation of Bush�s cabinet appointments illustrates the
> >point. Presented with some of the most reactionary appointments in recent
> >memory, the Democrats made little or no effort to oppose them. In fact,
> >most were confirmed unanimously. Disturbed by this weak response, some
> >Democratic loyalists reacted in anger. For example, Patricia Ireland, the
> >president of NOW, declared: �There is a fairly angry and experienced 
>crowd
> >of activists who can be mobilized to bring a lot of public pressure,
> >mainly, in my view, on the Democrats  to keep the Democrats from folding
> >into the center-right agenda.� In a similar vein, Julian Bond, the
> >president of the NAACP, stated: �Democrats need to know that their votes
> >are monitored just as the Republicans� votes are monitored.� But these
> >statements beg some very fundamental questions. How does one keep the
> >Democrats from folding into the center-right? What is the point of
> >monitoring votes if one lacks the capacity to sanction those votes? What
> >form would those sanctions take? Are these credible threats then? In 
>truth,
> >the only way to ensure that the Democrats do the right thing is to put 
>the
> >fear of losing in them. But like so many others, both Ireland and Bond 
>have
> >made it so clear that they prefer anything to the Republicans that they
> >have no real leverage on the Democrats. The only way to gain leverage 
>would
> >be to make their support conditional, which means being willing to cause
> >them to lose their seats, and neither is willing to do that.
> >         At least Ireland and Bond recognize the Democrats� culpability.
> >Far more of those who backed Gore have reacted to the Bush appointments 
>by
> >claiming that they provide clear proof that voting for Gore was the 
>correct
> >thing to do. But the logic underpinning this argument is very cynical. It
> >rests fundamentally on the claim that we have no choice but to vote the
> >Democrats into the White House because we cannot trust them to use the
> >power at their disposal to do the right thing in the Congress. It thus
> >comes down to a form of blackmail: �If you don�t vote for our candidate,
> >we�ll stand aside and unleash a right-winger on the country.� This is why
> >the frequent invocation of Supreme Court Justices Scalia and Thomas 
>during
> >the election rang so hollow. Somehow overlooked was the fact that the
> >Democrats stood by and let those appointments go through when they had 
>the
> >power to block them. None of this, of course, is particularly novel. It 
>is
> >simply a continuation of a pattern that has been gaining momentum for
> >several decades.
> >         So much for the strategic shortcomings of the Gore backers. What
> >about the Nader/Green option? Did it really represent a promising
> >alternative, one that could serve as the basis for a new progressive
> >political movement? In many respects, it did, and perhaps still does. In
> >the first place, Nader was unmistakably the most progressive presidential
> >candidate to come along in at least a half century, if not longer. He
> >offered a program that not only addressed many of the country�s deepest
> >problems, but offered concrete proposals for dealing with them. He was 
>thus
> >the first candidate in decades to advance a clear vision of the future 
>that
> >progressives could enthusiastically embrace. He also demonstrated a solid
> >grasp of what it takes to get there, including an understanding of how
> >power functions and is distributed in this society, the differences 
>between
> >short- and long-term costs, and the crucial role of social mobilization.
> >Indeed, in this last regard, he has strong links to the social forces 
>that
> >emerged in the Seattle demonstrations in November 1999, probably the most
> >significant instance of mass social mobilization to materialize in 
>decades.
> >Moreover, although he has never been elected to political office, he has
> >long experience in working with Congress and has an impressive list of
> >legislative accomplishments, certainly far more impressive than almost 
>any
> >member of Congress.
> >         All of this suggests that if one were to opt for a third party
> >candidate, this was going to be the time. If progressives remained 
>hesitant
> >in the face of this unique historical opportunity, and were even willing 
>to
> >actively undermine it by voting for Gore, it therefore likely meant that
> >they are fundamentally pessimistic about the prospects for a viable third
> >party emerging. But shouldn�t they be? Isn�t the history of third party
> >efforts in the U.S. pretty terrible? And isn�t this primarily because our
> >electoral system is simply inhospitable to third parties? Moreover, 
>doesn�t
> >it make more sense to work at the local level, and establish a third 
>party
> >presence there, before launching a campaign at the presidential level 
>where
> >the stakes are so high? In any case, isn�t the Green Party badly 
>organized
> >and therefore not a particularly promising vehicle? And haven�t Nader and
> >the Greens failed to reach out to African Americans and other people of
> >color, a crucial constituency in any progressive movement? For all of 
>these
> >reasons, would it not therefore make more sense to try to work through 
>the
> >Democratic Party?
> >         The truth is that the history of third party efforts in the U.S.
> >is terrible and it does have a great deal to do with the nature of our
> >electoral system. But this is not a reason to abandon all future efforts.
> >Indeed, the immutable status we give to our electoral system is actually
> >quite mind-boggling. Somehow, many of us are capable of condemning the 
>most
> >deep-seated socio-economic problems, but when it comes to a destructive
> >institutional feature of our political system, we accept it as permanent,
> >almost as though it were part of the natural order of things. This 
>attitude
> >is all the more astounding given the enormous benefits electoral reforms
> >such as proportional representation or even instant run-off voting would
> >instantly produce (e.g., a widening of our political options, greatly
> >expanded participation, and the elimination of the �spoiler� effect) and
> >the very fertile terrain for electoral reform created by the Florida
> >debacle. Ironically, it is even possible to take advantage of the current
> >electoral system to advance such reforms. In fact, the two states where 
>IRV
> >is being seriously considered are precisely those states where a strong
> >third party has created a spoiler effect: New Mexico and Alaska. In both
> >cases, it is the party that has been transformed from a winner into a 
>loser
> >(the Democrats in New Mexico and the Republicans in Alaska) that is most
> >interested in reform  here we see how �losing� can be a positive force 
>for
> >change. There is no reason, moreover, why this cannot also be 
>accomplished
> >at the national level, since the logic behind it is unaffected by scale.
> >         Any effort to establish a third party should also involve a 
>great
> >deal of work at the local level. However, this does not preclude 
>launching
> >a national, presidential campaign. Rather than being mutually exclusive
> >strategies, they can be mutually reinforcing. A good example of this is
> >Madison, Wisconsin, where an already strong local party, Progressive 
>Dane,
> >made a strategic decision to get involved in the Nader campaign precisely
> >because of the benefits it would have for building their organization. 
>And
> >as a result, they have experienced a surge of hundreds of new, very
> >actively engaged members. One reason this makes sense is the 
>de-politicized
> >nature of our political culture. Unfortunately, most Americans, to the
> >degree we are at all interested in politics, focus on the national level.
> >In other words, only a national, presidential campaign has the capacity 
>of
> >politicizing people rapidly. It is highly unlikely, for example, that the
> >tens of thousands of enthusiastic people who paid $10 each to attend
> >Nader�s �super rallies� would have been similarly inspired and energized 
>in
> >the absence of the Nader campaign. Thus, rather than slowly building a
> >local presence all across the country before launching a national 
>campaign,
> >it makes more sense to jump-start the whole process by advancing both
> >efforts simultaneously.
> >         The Green Party is also not particularly well organized or
> >experienced, and in fact, suffers from some not insignificant divisions.
> >But this is also not a sufficient reason to write it off. Arguing that we
> >cannot opt for a third party until such a party is strong, well 
>organized,
> >and experienced is to create a catch-22. If our involvement is essential 
>to
> >building such a party, waiting until it emerges before we lend it our
> >support is to ensure its demise. In any case, there is no reason to stake
> >our hopes on the Green Party as the only possible third party 
>alternative.
> >It is simply a vehicle, and a rather open one at that. The same is true 
>of
> >Nader. In fact, we should be very wary of attaching our political agenda
> >too closely to any individual. But no matter where we begin, we will have
> >to confront the reality that organizations are weak in their infancy. In
> >order to attain the strength of adulthood, they require substantial
> >nurturing, not a wait-and-see attitude.
> >         Nader and the Greens also did a very poor job of reaching out to
> >people of color, probably the greatest weakness of their campaign. In 
>fact,
> >it was not until very late in the game that Nader began to address their
> >concerns explicitly. And not surprisingly, he did poorly among minority
> >voters. Yet, there is no significant reason why this cannot change. 
>Despite
> >Nader�s limited efforts in this regard, he focused far more directly on
> >issues of concern to minority voters than Gore did, including support for
> >affirmative action, an end to racial profiling, an end to the war on 
>drugs,
> >abolition of the death penalty, closing the racial wealth gap, and even
> >reparations for slavery. Much of his poor showing among those voters thus
> >had as much to do with the suppression of his message as the failure to
> >deliver it more effectively. Moreover, unlike the Democratic Party, in
> >which there are major structural obstacles to advancing a program that
> >addresses the needs of people of color, there are no such obstacles in 
>the
> >Green Party.
> >         But despite all this, shouldn�t Nader have sought to advance his
> >progressive agenda through the Democratic Party instead, given that it is
> >organizationally more developed and still has the most significant
> >progressive following of any political party? A number of people have in
> >fact advanced this argument, including Representative Barney Frank of
> >Massachusetts. Invariably, they point to Jesse Jackson as the best model 
>of
> >what can be accomplished. This is a curious choice of models, however,
> >since Jackson�s experience is a far better example of the limitations of
> >the Democratic Party. As noted above, Jackson�s rainbow coalition set off
> >alarm bells in the party and the current political leadership went to 
>great
> >lengths to ensure that it was defeated. Recent developments, moreover,
> >suggest that the chances of such an effort succeeding are more limited 
>than
> >ever (e.g., the naming of super fundraiser Terry McAuliffe as the new
> >chairman of the Democratic National Committee and the DLC�s insistence 
>that
> >a main reason for Gore�s defeat was his excessively populist campaign).
> >None of this rules out the possibility of progressives taking control of
> >the party. That possibility, however, is extremely small and it would
> >require somehow surmounting the overwhelming and growing power that 
>moneyed
> >interests have in the party. It would also require a radical change in
> >strategy on the part of progressive Democrats. Ironically, perhaps the 
>one
> >factor that could significantly strengthen their leverage vis-�-vis their
> >internal party rivals is the emergence of a strong third political party.
> >
> >
> >Notes
> >
> >  John Nichols, �The Great Debate. Nader Has Inspired Bitter Debates on 
>the
> >Left. Isn�t it Terrific?,� In These Times, November 13, 2000.
> >  Quoted in Alexander Cockburn and Jeffery St. Clair, Al Gore: A User�s
> >Manual (London: Verso, 2000).
> >  On media coverage of the Nader campaign, see Ralph Nader, �My Untold
> >Story,� Brill�s Content, February 2001, and Robert McChesney, et al., 
>�The
> >Nader Campaign and the Future of U.S. Left Electoral Politics,� Monthly
> >Review, Vol. 52, No. 9, February 2001.
> >  See for example the extraordinary letter by Representative John Conyers
> >to The Nation (November 20, 2000).
> >  Aside from the large-scale disenfranchisement of African American 
>voters,
> >a big part of the reason Gore lost the all-important state of Florida was
> >the vast number of Democrats and self-described liberals who voted for
> >Bush. In fact, while 24,000 Democrats voted for Nader, more than twelve
> >times as many (308,000) voted for Bush, and among self-described 
>liberals,
> >the ratio was 191,000 to 34,000 (or nearly 6 to 1). Bush also beat Gore
> >among white women (53% to 44%) and voters 65 and older (51% to 47%) (see
> >Jim Hightower, �How Florida Democrats Torpedoed Gore,� in Salon.com,
> >November 27, 2000). Similar trends prevailed nationwide (see the CNN exit
> >poll at www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/epolls/US/P000.html). In fact, 
>according
> >to a Voter News Service exit poll, only 47% of the Nader voters would 
>have
> >voted for Gore in a two-way race, while 21% would have voted for Bush and
> >30% would not have voted at all.
> >  William Greider, �Nader and the Politics of Fear,� The Nation, March 
>12,
> >2001.
> >  Ibid.
> >  Thomas Ferguson and Joel Rogers, Right Turn: The Decline of the 
>Democrats
> >and the Future of American Politics (New York: Hill and Wang, 1986).
> >  Ruy Teixeira and Joel Rogers, America�s Forgotten Majority: Why the 
>White
> >Working Class Still Matters (New York: Basic Books, 2000).
> >  Carter won only 48% of the union vote and only 44% of the working class
> >vote. Deepening a process that had gained momentum throughout the decade,
> >there was also a dramatic decrease in voter turnout among lower-class
> >groups. Frances Fox Piven and Richard Cloward, Why Americans Still Don�t
> >Vote and Why Politicians Want it That Way (Boston: Beacon Press, 2000),
> >pp.116, 121-125.
> >  Piven and Cloward, Why Americans Still Don�t Vote, p.150.
> >  Ferguson and Rogers, Right Turn, p.202.
> >  Teixera and Rogers, America�s Forgotten Majority.
> >  Jesse Jackson Jr., �George Bush�s Democrats,� The Nation, January 22,
> >2001.
> >  Ruth Conniff, �Cancel the Honeymoon,� The Progressive, February 2001.
> >  Ibid.
> >  This may also explain why no one reacted when Joseph Lieberman declared
> >on national television a week before the election that he would have 
>voted
> >to confirm Robert Bork if he had been a Senator at the time. Houston
> >Chronicle, October 30, 2000.
> >  �Ruth Conniff referees a match between Barney Frank and Ralph Nader,� 
>The
> >Progressive, November 2000.
> >  Recently, Robert Reich has become so disillusioned as to conclude that
> >the Democratic Party is dead. See �The Democrats Aren�t �Just Resting�,�
> >Washington Post, March 11, 2001.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Ben Manski
> >   Green Party of the United States
> >   Steering Committee
> >       manski@...
> >       http://www.gp-us.org/
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
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>
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>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:1999
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-01 15:01:57
Subject:Palestine in South Africa
Message:

These articles have been forwarded to you by the ProLibertad Freedom 
Campaign ProLibertad@...

FREE PALESTINE!!
FREE ALL PALESTINIAN POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
FREE THE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS!!

Thousands rally in Durban against Israel and U.S.

DURBAN, South Africa, Aug 31 (Reuters) - Thousands of
demonstrators chanting
anti-Israeli and anti-American slogans marched through the
centre of Durban
on Friday as a world conference against racism got under
way.

"Israel is an apartheid state" and "Free, Free Palestine"
were among banners
waved by the protesters, estimated to number 10,000, as they
headed for a
meeting to be addressed by U.S. civil rights leader Jesse
Jackson.

Another banner read: "George Bush: Palestinian blood is on
your hands."

Both the United States and Israel have sent only low-level
delegations to the
United Nations-organised World Conference Against Racism in
protest at what
they say is an anti-Israel bias in draft texts drawn up for
the meeting.

Arab states have dropped clauses equating Zionism with
Racism but want
"foreign occupation" -- a veiled reference to Israeli
actions in Palestinian
territories -- to be branded as a new kind of apartheid.

Armed police looked on as marchers filed through central
city streets but
there were no immediate reports of any violence.

07:33 08-31-01


U.N. Chief: Racism Summit Can't Afford Failure

By Richard Waddington
Reuters

DURBAN, South Africa (Aug. 31) - U.N. Secretary-General Kofi
Annan on Friday
urged delegates to an acrimonious global conference against
racism to set
aside their differences, saying the meeting could not afford
to fail.

''If we leave here without agreement we shall give comfort
to the worst
elements in every society,'' he told the opening session of
the eight-day
World Conference Against Racism, Racial Discrimination,
Xenophobia and
Related Intolerance.

Acknowledging rows that dogged preparations for the United
Nations-organised
meeting in the South African port of Durban -- Washington
has sent only a
low-level delegation because of what it says is an
anti-Israeli bias -- was a
test of the international community's ability to unite on a
vital issue.

''Let us not fail that test,'' he said.

Annan sought to sound a conciliatory note on the two most
contentious issues
-- how to deal with, if at all, conflict in the Middle East
and how to
address the historic ill of slavery.

Arab states have been insisting that the conference text
contain a specific
reference to what it says is racist treatment by Israel of
Palestinians in
the occupied territories.

Describing the Holocaust, in which some six million Jews
were killed by the
Nazis in World War Two, as ''the ultimate abomination,''
Annan said Israel
could not use the tragedy as an excuse never to examine its
own behavior.

''We cannot expect Palestinians to accept this (the
Holocaust) as a reason
why the wrongs done to them -- displacement, occupation,
blockage, and now
extra-judicial killings -- should be ignored, whatever label
one uses to
describe them,'' he said.

But Annan said the conference was not the place for mutual
recriminations and
that its aim was to look to the future.

He sent the same message on slavery, for which some African
states want an
explicit apology and possibly financial reparations from
former slave-trading
nations.

''Our aim must be to banish from this new century the hatred
and prejudice
that have disfigured previous centuries,'' he said.

The emphasis of the conference was on practical measures to
combat racism and
discrimination against ethnic minorities from which few
countries were immune.

''We must not leave this city without agreeing on practical
measures which
all states should take to fill that pledge,'' he said.

European countries and the United States, the main players
in the traffic of
slaves from Africa to north and south America for some 400
years up to the
19th century, reject any talk of reparations and are wary of
any wording in
the conference texts that could leave them open to legal
action.

REUTERS� Reut09:05 08-31-01


Jackson: Zionism Criticism to Come Out
.c The Associated Press


DURBAN, South Africa (AP) - The Palestinian delegation has
agreed to drop
criticism of Israel and Zionism in a final declaration for
the U.N.
conference against racism, the Rev. Jesse Jackson said
Friday.

Following a three-hour meeting with Yasser Arafat, Jackson
said the
Palestinian leader had agreed to oppose efforts to criticize
Israel and
Zionism, and to recognize the Holocaust as the worst crime
of the 20th
century.

The Palestinians were not immediately available for comment.

Jackson presented reporters with a handwritten draft of the
document signed
by Arafat in which he said he did not want the U.N.
conference to derail over
criticism of Israel.

The racism gathering has been overshadowed in part by
anti-Israel language in
a draft of the conference document. The United States
decided not to send a
high-level delegation to the conference because of negative
references to
Israel and the Zionist movement.

Shortly after making the announcement, Jackson spoke to
Secretary of State
Colin Powell by telephone to explain the statement Arafat
had signed.

Jackson criticized the Bush administration for not sending
Powell, noting
that he was able to resolve the controversy simply by
talking to the
Palestinian leader.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2000
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-02 10:42:27
Subject:Re: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: [GreenMovement] Barrett's Strong Defense of Nader/LaDuke 2000
Message:

'strong' in words (phew)

weak in content.

peoples' war on the right.

cs


>From: "JOSEPH MOSLEY" <joemosley1@...>
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>CC: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Fwd: [GreenMovement] Barrett's Strong 
>Defense of Nader/LaDuke 2000
>Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 01:29:32 -0400
>
>
>
>
> >From: Ben Manski <manski@...>
> >Reply-To: GreenMovement@yahoogroups.com
> >To: greenmovement@yahoogroups.com, greens@yahoogroups.com,
> >usgp-COO@...
> >Subject: [GreenMovement] Barrett's Strong Defense of Nader/LaDuke 2000
> >Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:47:12 -0500
> >
> >
> >�Strategic Lessons of the 2000 Presidential Election:
> >A Pro-Nader Perspective�
> >
> >Constellations, Volume 8, Number 3, September 2001, pp.348-363.
> >
> >Patrick S. Barrett
> >Administrative Director
> >A. E. Havens Center for the Study of Social Structure and Social Change
> >University of Wisconsin-Madison
> >Introduction
> >
> >The recent presidential election was a historically significant one for a
> >number of reasons. Perhaps the most obvious was the controversial manner 
>in
> >which George W. Bush assumed office. Another reason, however, was the
> >division and rancor the election produced among supporters of Al Gore and
> >Ralph Nader. More than its effect on the outcome of the election itself,
> >the deeper significance of the Gore-Nader controversy was the debate over
> >political strategy that it generated on the left. It has been a long time
> >since the left has engaged in such a debate, and its occurrence should
> >therefore be seen as a positive development. At the same time, the fact
> >that U.S. progressives are largely unaccustomed to thinking strategically
> >may help to explain why the debate has been conducted at such a low level
> >of sophistication and with such little forthrightness, especially on the
> >part of those who backed Gore and the Democrats. Indeed, it is ironic 
>that
> >the most common criticism of Nader supporters made by the backers of Gore
> >namely, that the former are strategically shortsighted, irresponsible, 
>and
> >even destructive  may be much more accurately applied to themselves.
> >What follows, then, is primarily intended as a critique of the pro-Gore
> >position. But it is also intended as a defense of the pro-Nader position,
> >which contains some of the essential elements of a long-term strategy for
> >bringing about real progressive change, even if not ultimately embodied 
>in
> >Nader or the Greens. Both of these objectives can be accomplished by
> >addressing four fundamental and interrelated questions: (1) Where are 
>we?;
> >(2) How did we get here?; (3) Where do we want to go?; and (4) How do we
> >get there? Together, these four questions are indispensable to any effort
> >aimed at devising a long-term strategy for progressive change. All four
> >questions, moreover, were nearly universally neglected, if not actively
> >avoided, by the backers of Gore and the Democrats.
> >Where Are We?
> >Beginning with this question is crucial, for if we do not engage in an
> >accurate assessment of our current circumstances, we have little chance 
>of
> >moving forward, much less getting very far. Thus, before we determine 
>where
> >we want to go, or the steps we need to take to get there, we need to
> >understand our point of departure. Clearly, there is insufficient space
> >here for more than a very cursory response to this question. The first 
>and
> >most obvious observation, then, is that ours is an extremely inequitable
> >society. Indeed, among all the advanced economies of the world, the U.S.
> >has the most unequal distribution of wealth and income, the least 
>economic
> >mobility, the longest hours logged by its workers, one of the highest 
>rates
> >of poverty, one of the most regressive tax structures, and the least
> >developed welfare state. Our society is also characterized by severe 
>racial
> >inequality, as African Americans, Latinos, and other racial minorities
> >suffer the disproportionate effect of these disparities. Moreover, the
> >degree of inequality has worsened dramatically over the last 25-30 years.
> >         With 25% of the world�s prisoners (a disproportionate and rising
> >number of whom are people of color), the U.S. can also boast the highest
> >level of incarceration in the world. It is also one of the few nations 
>that
> >still employ the death penalty, which is applied in a highly 
>discriminatory
> >manner. In addition, our industrial relations system is heavily skewed in
> >favor of employers and, not surprisingly, we have one of the weakest 
>labor
> >movements. In few developed countries, moreover, are the rights of women
> >more limited and precarious. We also consume an inordinate proportion of
> >the world�s natural resources, in the process destroying our natural
> >environment at an increasingly alarming rate. Not content to confine the
> >ill effects of these practices to our own citizens, we seek to impose 
>them
> >on the rest of the world via a foreign policy whose overriding concern is
> >the expansion of U.S. military might and corporate interests.
> >         Our political system only serves to reinforce these outcomes. 
>Our
> >winner-take-all electoral system limits our political options to two
> >political parties, which, although not identical, are strikingly similar
> >and have grown increasingly so over the years. In few other developed
> >countries are the political rules of the game so skewed and the resulting
> >set of political options so limited. The two main political parties,
> >moreover, have come to serve an increasingly narrow and privileged 
>segment
> >of the population, made possible in part by the rising corporate 
>domination
> >of our system of campaign finance and our legislative process. At the 
>same
> >time, the growing corporate domination and concentration of our mass 
>media
> >has had the effect of severely constricting our national political 
>debate.
> >It should therefore come as no surprise that approximately half of the
> >voting age population does not vote in presidential elections, and that
> >those who do are disproportionately white and privileged. In fact, over 
>the
> >last forty years, voter turnout in the U.S. has been falling steadily,
> >especially among the least privileged.
> >         In the face of such a reality, it would seem that the only
> >appropriate response is outrage. In this regard, the Nader campaign
> >performed a service that has been long overdue. It relentlessly drew
> >attention to the fundamental problems confronting the country and 
>demanded
> >that they be addressed. The Democrats, by contrast, steadfastly avoided
> >discussion of these problems and their own role in causing them. So too 
>did
> >many of their supporters on the left. Indeed, rather than a
> >�lesser-of-two-evils� approach to the election, what many progressives
> >engaged in can more accurately be described as one of �see no evil, hear 
>no
> >evil, speak no evil.� In reality, the Democrats, especially under the
> >Clinton-Gore administration, have veered significantly to the right,
> >adopting core Republican positions as their own and in some cases going
> >further with them than the Republicans had been able to do themselves. 
>The
> >most notorious example of this is the 1996 welfare reform bill, which
> >gutted one of the central accomplishments of the New Deal.
> >But there are many others, including a hard-line approach to crime and 
>drug
> >abuse that has led to a doubling of the prison population in the last 
>eight
> >years, an enthusiastic embrace of the death penalty despite the
> >overwhelming evidence that it kills innocent people and is racially
> >discriminatory, an obsession with balanced budgets that has depended upon
> >cuts in social spending, a foreign policy that was as militaristic and
> >anti-humanitarian as that of its Republican predecessors while even more
> >devoted to advancing the economic interests of Wall Street and corporate
> >America, and an environmental record that was so bad as to prompt David
> >Brower to conclude that �Gore and Clinton have done more to harm the
> >environment than Reagan and Bush combined.� Under Clinton and Gore, the
> >Democrats also became far more adept at corporate fund-raising,
> >significantly closing the gap with their Republican rivals. And not
> >surprisingly, inequality continued to grow, despite the vaunted economic
> >expansion of the 1990s.
> >The list is longer, but this should have been enough to produce outrage 
>on
> >the part of progressives. Such outrage, however, was in amazingly short
> >supply. Nor was there much anger over the fact that there was a 
>systematic
> >effort to silence the one candidate who was attempting to draw attention 
>to
> >the administration�s abysmal record, Ralph Nader. Indeed, throughout most
> >of the summer of 2000, Gore and his supporters worked hard to deny Nader 
>a
> >national forum. They were aided in this effort by the national media, 
>which
> >largely ignored him. To the degree that the media did cover his campaign,
> >it was to portray him as a �spoiler,� never to report on the substance of
> >his positions. In the early fall, with Gore trailing in the polls, the
> >media and the Democrats did begin to pay more attention to Nader, but 
>only
> >to vilify him as a destructive egotist and to insist that there was no
> >alternative to �the Party.� Simultaneously, the distortion of the
> >Democrats� and Gore�s record reached new heights. Gore was consistently
> >portrayed as a champion of civil rights, labor rights, women�s rights, 
>the
> >environment, and gay rights. Given Gore�s appalling record in all of 
>these
> >areas, this was a particularly cynical effort. It was all the more 
>cynical
> >given the Gore supporters� indignation over Nader�s supposed exaggeration
> >of the similarities between Bush and Gore. In truth, Nader did 
>exaggerate,
> >but not by much and certainly far less than the Gore supporters in 
>claiming
> >a difference between the two candidates.
> >In their lionizing of Gore, his supporters somehow forgot about his 84%
> >pro-life voting record, his steadfast support for free trade, his close
> >ties to tobacco and oil companies and weapons manufacturers, his efforts 
>to
> >end affirmative action for federal contractors through his �reinventing
> >government� program, his repeated betrayal of pledges to protect the
> >environment, and his long history as a gay basher. Also forgotten was the
> >fact that it was Gore who first race-baited Dukakis in the 1988 
>Democratic
> >primaries with the Willie Horton story and who made it a personal mission
> >to undermine the Jackson campaign in the 1988 New York primary. There was
> >also little reaction when Gore openly bragged about his support for the
> >death penalty, his key role in pushing through the 1996 Welfare Reform
> >Bill, his unbending support for sanctions on Iraq and military aid to
> >Colombia, or his call for an increase in defense spending twice that
> >proposed by Bush. Nor was there much reaction when he chose Joseph
> >Lieberman (one of the most conservative and pro-business members of the
> >Senate) as his running mate and former Commerce Secretary William Daley 
>(a
> >leading figure in the administration�s effort to promote free trade) as 
>his
> >campaign chair person. And there was a deafening silence when Lieberman
> >declared to the Wall Street Journal that big business need not worry 
>about
> >the semi-populist elements of Gore�s convention speech, since it was 
>simply
> >rhetoric designed to win votes.
> >The response of most Gore backers to the outcome of the election has been
> >consistent with their attitude during the campaign, as they have heaped
> >considerable abuse on Nader as one of the two culprits who denied Gore 
>his
> >rightful victory, the other being Bush�s allies on the U.S. Supreme 
>Court.
> >While there is strong evidence for the latter, the former claim is yet
> >another example of denying reality. Unfortunately, in the hierarchy of
> >reasons explaining Gore�s �defeat,� Nader ranks quite low. Far more
> >significant was the fundamental weakness of the Gore campaign itself, 
>which
> >was unable to win even Gore�s home state of Tennessee or Clinton�s home
> >state of Arkansas. This weakness was perhaps in part a negative reaction 
>to
> >Clinton�s personal behavior and the odd perception that Bush was the
> >candidate with greater personal integrity. But it more likely reflected 
>the
> >fact that there were so few discernible differences between the two main
> >candidates on bread and butter economic issues, particularly to the white
> >working class. Indeed, voter turnout was the third lowest in the last 75
> >years. To be sure, there was a slight increase over 1996 (from 49% to 
>51%),
> >but the class composition of the turnout was if anything more skewed than
> >ever in favor of the upper 20% of income earners. Moreover, one of the 
>main
> >reasons for the increased turnout was Nader. In fact, in several states, 
>he
> >helped to elect Democratic congressional candidates.
> >While a few Democrats have acknowledged the positive role played by 
>Nader,
> >most have treated him as a pariah. In striking contrast to their posture
> >toward the new administration, which they have welcomed in a remarkably
> >�bipartisan� manner, they have been determined to deny Nader any
> >opportunity to weigh in on policy debates in which they are presumably on
> >the same side. There are two basic motivations for this posture. One is 
>to
> >deny their own culpability in their party�s defeat and the sorry state of
> >the nation. And the other is to send a message to anyone who dares to 
>offer
> >a progressive alternative to the Democrats that they will pay heavily.
> >Ironically, Nader in this way performed yet another service by exposing 
>the
> >Democratic Party for what it is. Indeed, if there were reason to be
> >skeptical about the party�s democratic convictions prior to this 
>election,
> >their analysis of the election outcome has provided further reason for
> >doubt.
> >How Did We Get Here?
> >Thus, if we are serious about achieving progressive change, we have to
> >engage in a more candid and critical assessment of our contemporary
> >reality. But we also need to understand how we got here. For without an
> >accurate assessment of what led us to our present circumstances, we are
> >likely to continue down the same path, with the same or worse results.
> >Clearly, many of the same factors are in play, as social, economic, and
> >political inequalities have a way of perpetuating themselves. However, a
> >major part of the explanation for what got us here once again lies with 
>the
> >Democratic Party. In this respect, Nader again did a far better job of
> >assessing reality than Gore. But Nader was actually too soft on the
> >Democrats, repeatedly suggesting that they had departed from their
> >progressive roots. The reality is that the Democratic Party never had 
>such
> >roots and was never a champion of the rights of working people and racial
> >minorities.
> >During the twentieth century, there have been only two moments when the
> >Democrats have presided over major progressive change: the New Deal of 
>FDR
> >and the Great Society programs of Lyndon Johnson. Two conclusions can be
> >drawn from these experiences. One is that only pressure from below has 
>ever
> >moved the Democrats in a progressive direction. The second is that the
> >lengths to which they can be moved are greatly limited by their ties to 
>big
> >business interests. In both instances, the Democrats were forced to 
>accept
> >change in response to massive popular mobilization. And in both cases, 
>for
> >a variety of reasons, important segments of business were willing to
> >tolerate some degree of progressive change. However, that willingness was
> >both limited and short-lived. In fact, many of the more far-reaching
> >initiatives, particularly under the New Deal, were never realized, while
> >many of the accomplishments were quickly subjected to attack and, before
> >long, reversal. In the case of the New Deal, the possibilities for change
> >were also severely limited by the key role played by southern racists in
> >the party.
> >Particularly over the last 25-30 years, these two factors have changed in
> >such a way as to cause the Democratic Party to move ever more rightward.
> >The labor movement, which was the most important popular impetus behind 
>the
> >New Deal, has grown steadily weaker since the mid-1950s and has assumed a
> >largely conservative posture. Moreover, with the exception of the 1972
> >presidential election, it has given its support to the Democrats
> >unconditionally. Meanwhile, African Americans, whose mass mobilization
> >during the 1950s and 1960s was the driving force behind Johnson�s Great
> >Society programs and triggered the departure of most of the party�s
> >southern racist contingent, have since become a demobilized and captured
> >constituency. As a result, the capacity of both groups to influence the
> >direction of the Democratic Party has diminished significantly.
> >Simultaneously, the party has grown increasingly dependent upon big
> >business, which itself has grown less and less tolerant of even the most
> >moderate proposals for change. This process became most evident in the
> >early 1980s following the election of Ronald Reagan and the establishment
> >of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) in early 1985. Founded by a
> >group of primarily southern conservative Democrats, the DLC set out to 
>move
> >the Party to the right by strengthening its ties to business, while
> >distancing it from labor, African Americans, and the poor. This effort 
>came
> >to fruition in 1992 with the election of Clinton and Gore and was further
> >consolidated with the nomination of Gore and Lieberman in 2000.
> >         The DLC�s main argument for pushing the party to the right is 
>that
> >the country itself has moved rightward and that in order to win 
>elections,
> >the party needs to respond to what the voters want. A corollary to this
> >argument is that the Republicans have also moved to the right and that 
>the
> >Democrats must do whatever it takes to keep them out of the White House,
> >including following in their footsteps. But there is virtually no 
>substance
> >to this argument. Survey data indicate that, if anything, the American
> >electorate has become more, not less, �liberal� in its attitudes. In 
>fact,
> >to the degree that Americans have come to oppose government activism, it
> >has not been because they are hostile to government action  to the
> >contrary, they believe that the government should be actively involved in
> >problem-solving  but rather because they have become disillusioned with 
>the
> >government�s capacity for problem-solving. Much of that disillusionment,
> >moreover, can be attributed to the Democrats, who for decades have grown
> >increasingly unwilling or unable to respond to the economic aspirations 
>of
> >poor and working class voters and instead have responded to the demands 
>of
> >the wealthy.
> >         Furthermore, rather than simply responding to the rightward 
>shift
> >of the Republicans, the Democrats have at times initiated the move to the
> >right. Indeed, it was the Carter administration that launched 
>Reaganomics,
> >fully two years before Reagan came into office. And it is no surprise 
>that
> >Carter lost to Reagan in 1980, with Carter offering such a dismal option 
>to
> >the working class. Once Reagan was in office, the Democrats also went out
> >of their way to accommodate his policy initiatives, giving him bigger tax
> >cuts and increases in military spending than he had asked for, and much 
>of
> >what he requested in social spending cuts. And rather than responding to
> >the growing discontent among the poor, working class, and racial
> >minorities, they instead engaged in a heightened competition with the
> >Republicans for gaining the backing of business.
> >The 1984 campaign of Walter Mondale was itself a revealing case study of
> >the party�s increasing domination by business and its growing distance 
>from
> >its popular electoral constituencies. Particularly striking was the
> >campaign�s deliberate efforts to limit voter turnout among the poor and
> >racial minorities, for fear that it would strengthen the candidacy of 
>Jesse
> >Jackson. Even after winning the nomination, Mondale continued to oppose
> >registration efforts despite a 250-page study written by his aides that
> >concluded that �the only way Mondale can win is by pitching his appeal to
> >the white working class and minorities.� The main problem, of course, was
> >the effect such an appeal would have on the Party�s business backers.
> >Thomas Ferguson and Joel Rogers described the situation well:
> >As the Mondale campaign made clear, virtually no Democratic business 
>group
> >has a stake in expanding the party�s mass base. To gain the support of
> >millions and millions of poor nonvoters and marginally identifying blue-
> >and white-collar workers, the Democrats would actually have to offer them
> >something  perhaps a progressive tax code, or full employment, or
> >unionization with real power for the rank and file, or enhanced social
> >programs. [But] the party�s dominant business elites are not prepared to 
>do
> >this.
> >Constrained by his business backers, Mondale thus offered nothing to 
>those
> >voters who could have given the Democrats a victory. Instead, he offered
> >only fiscal restraint and a promise to increase taxes. Coupled with one 
>of
> >the largest political business cycles ever engineered, this was enough to
> >produce a landslide victory for Reagan. In the wake of this defeat, party
> >leaders saw it as an opportunity to push even harder for the strategy 
>that
> >had produced it. Indeed, it was in early 1985 that the DLC was founded.
> >Moreover, instead of rewarding Jesse Jackson with greater influence for 
>his
> >loyalty to the party and the new voters he recruited, the white 
>Democratic
> >establishment (in a preview of their treatment of Nader in 2000) 
>viciously
> >scape-goated him for losing the election. In 1986, party nominating rules
> >were also re-written in an effort to �moderate� the party�s image and
> >advance a candidate that could appeal to conservative white voters.
> >It was not until 1992, however, that the DLC succeeded in getting one of
> >its own elected in the person of Bill Clinton. But Clinton�s victory 
>should
> >not be seen as a vindication of the DLC�s conservative strategy. Clinton
> >received fewer votes than Dukakis had in 1988 and would never have won if
> >not for an economic recession and the presence of a strong third 
>candidate,
> >Ross Perot, who received millions of votes from the very voting bloc that
> >has abandoned the Democrats in droves over the last 25 years: low-income
> >whites. Apparently oblivious to the real significance of the election,
> >Clinton very quickly dedicated his administration to the service of
> >business interests, thereby producing the fiasco of the 1994 
>congressional
> >elections, in which a rightwing Republican cabal took control of the
> >Congress. Continuing the pattern established by his party since 1980,
> >Clinton responded to this outcome by turning even more to the right. 
>Aided
> >once again by the presence of Ross Perot, a less than stimulating
> >Republican candidate in Bob Dole, and the fact that the Congressional
> >Republicans that he had set out to imitate had become thoroughly
> >discredited, Clinton was able to win reelection in 1996. Voter turnout,
> >however, was the lowest since 1924. Given this history, it was not
> >particularly surprising that the 2000 Democratic ticket consisted of Gore
> >and Lieberman, two darlings of the DLC. It was also not surprising that
> >Gore, despite benefiting from an unprecedented economic expansion, ran a
> >very close and uninspired race against George W. Bush, arguably the least
> >prepared presidential candidate during this century. And it came as no
> >shock that the southerner Gore did abysmally in the south and that the
> >Democratic leadership made no effort to challenge the disenfranchisement 
>of
> >African American voters in Florida and instead worked to diffuse their
> >protests.
> >The Democrats, then, have played a major role in producing the 
>increasingly
> >rightward shift of politics in the United States. By adopting Republican
> >policy positions, they have legitimated those positions and enabled the
> >Republicans to move ever farther to the right, with little fear of 
>becoming
> >politically marginal. When in power, moreover, they more effectively
> >realize Republican policies by paralyzing groups that are reluctant to
> >oppose a Democratic President. And by alienating low-income voters, they
> >pave the way for Republican victories. As Jesse Jackson Jr. recently put
> >it, the move down this path has been �aided by Democrats. In 1992 a
> >conservative Democrat, Bill Clinton, selected an even more conservative
> >running mate, Al Gore, who in 2000 selected an even more conservative
> >running mate, Joseph Lieberman. By helping to shift the Democratic Party
> >and the country further right, a very conservative George W. Bush could
> >select an ultraconservative Dick Cheney as his running mate  and win.�
> >
> >Where Do We Want to Go?
> >Now that we have a better sense of where we are and how we got here, the
> >next task is to figure out where we want to go. How we answer this 
>question
> >may be the most critical task of all, since it will dictate how we act.
> >Indeed, in addressing this question, we are beginning to speak more
> >directly about strategy. This is because strategic action consists of two
> >basic elements: conceiving of a vision of the future; and devising a 
>series
> >of steps aimed at getting there. Without a vision of the future, 
>political
> >action is aimless and very unlikely to be successful. It certainly is not
> >strategic in any meaningful sense of the word.
> >         Unfortunately, the American left has by and large ignored this
> >question. The vast majority of us have little sense of where we want to 
>go
> >or of the future we would like to bring into being. At least, we do not
> >devote much discussion to it and we certainly do not make the effort to
> >think systematically about what it would take to make it a reality.
> >Instead, the greater part of our political activity, by far, is devoted 
>to
> >reaction, to opposing or trying to limit the worst effects of things we 
>do
> >not want, rather than to working proactively to construct an alternative
> >reality. Our political orientation is heavily geared toward the short 
>term,
> >with our highest goal set on winning the next election. More often than
> >not, we find ourselves in a defensive holding action, and we devote 
>little
> >thought to the long-term implications of our actions.
> >We also make very little effort to influence the program of the political
> >organizations and elected officials who presumably represent us. Indeed, 
>we
> >demonstrate an extraordinary willingness to demand, and accept, very 
>little
> >from them, and we tolerate a political dialogue that is superficial and
> >even repressive. Again, there was perhaps no better example of this than
> >the treatment of Nader in the 2000 election. Instead of welcoming a
> >candidate who offered an unusually elaborate and straightforward program
> >for change, even if only because of the effect that discussion of that
> >program could have on our national political debate, far too many of us
> >were willing to stand by and let the focus be trained entirely on his
> >supposed role as a �spoiler.� His program, meanwhile, was systematically
> >ignored, if not suppressed.
> >To some degree, the defensive posture of American progressives is very
> >understandable, particularly since we inhabit an environment in which our
> >enemies are strong and determined to implement very undesirable
> >initiatives. The irony, however, is that by focusing so much attention on
> >containing our enemies, rather than on conceptualizing and working toward
> >the construction of a better society, we can end up hastening the
> >realization of the very things we oppose. This is because we are more
> >likely to find ourselves losing sight of and compromising our positive
> >goals and thus allowing for the kind of scenario described above, in 
>which
> >the Democratic Party can pull us ever more rightward, because the
> >Republicans, themselves aided by the Democrats, are always a little 
>worse.
> >We can therefore easily find ourselves in a vicious, downward spiral in
> >which our actions serve only to reinforce a continual worsening of
> >conditions.
> >None of this is to say that we should refrain from being negative, in the
> >sense of engaging in a critique of contemporary society. Our vision of a
> >positive alternative reality is very much contained in our critique of
> >things as they are, since the nature and depth of that critique will 
>point
> >to what it is that we seek to change and how much of a change we seek to
> >achieve. One vision of the future, based for example on the critique
> >advanced in the first section of this article, might be characterized as
> >social democratic or perhaps democratic socialist. This would involve
> >constructing a society in which inequalities of wealth and income are
> >limited, poverty is all but nonexistent, health care is universal, 
>taxation
> >is progressive, racial minorities, women, and gays are full members of
> >society, unions are powerful and democratic, the death penalty is
> >abolished, the prison population is vastly outnumbered by the university
> >student population, foreign policy is humanitarian and democratic, the
> >defense budget is geared toward defense and thus radically reduced, the
> >environment is strongly protected, the media permit an open and wide
> >ranging political debate, political campaigns are publicly financed, and
> >the party system provides a wide range of political options, including 
>some
> >that represent the least privileged members of society.
> >Of course, many may not feel comfortable with this kind of social
> >democratic or democratic socialist vision and would prefer a future that 
>is
> >not such a departure from our present circumstances. Some may wish to 
>work
> >for only one or two of these objectives and may be very willing to
> >sacrifice the remainder in order to accomplish them. These differences 
>may
> >tell us as much about who we are as anything else. Some of us clearly
> >benefit a great deal from our current conditions and thus are less
> >interested in seeing such changes realized. But even among those who do 
>not
> >define our interests so narrowly, there will be major differences. 
>Indeed,
> >the democratization of society will unavoidably require the construction 
>of
> >a diverse coalition of interests, many of which may not easily join 
>forces
> >with each other, but which can nevertheless find enough common ground to
> >advance a mutually beneficial program of change. On the other hand, our
> >failure to embrace a program of change may have nothing to do with our
> >interests, and instead reflect the nature of our expectations. In other
> >words, some of us may have simply given up on the possibility of change 
>and
> >do not consider the above vision of the future as a feasible or realistic
> >one, however desirable it may be. But whatever our particular response to
> >this question, the fact remains that unless and until we address it, 
>there
> >is little or no chance that we will move forward, wherever or however far
> >we end up deciding we want to go. With that in mind, we turn now to the
> >fourth and final question.
> >How Do We Get There?
> >This may be the most difficult question of all, since it is a lot easier 
>to
> >engage in a critique of contemporary society, or elaborate a vision of a
> >future society, than it is to come up with a viable strategy for moving
> >forward. It is also likely the question on which we have reflected with 
>the
> >least care. This was clearly illustrated in the 2000 election, and in
> >particular in the analysis offered by the backers of Gore. To review, 
>that
> >analysis consisted of the claim that the only real option was to vote for
> >Gore, given that Nader was not going to win and that Gore, however
> >undesirable, was preferable to Bush. The mantra of the Gore campaign was
> >therefore �a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush� and anyone who did not
> >understand this was labeled as strategically unsophisticated,
> >irresponsible, and even destructive. While voting for Gore was touted as 
>an
> >eminently strategic act, voting for Nader was seen at best as a symbolic
> >action, or a protest vote, certainly not one informed by a strategic
> >understanding of the stakes involved. However, just as the Gore 
>supporters
> >never reflected on where we are, how we got here, or where we want to go,
> >they never carefully examined this claim to strategic insight. Their
> >critique of Nader supporters, it turns out, would have been more
> >appropriately applied to themselves.
> >In the first place, the focus of the pro-Gore option was entirely
> >short-term in character. It was at best a defensive maneuver with no real
> >end game  yet another holding action designed to prevent a Republican 
>from
> >assuming office and totally devoid of any proposal for what to do the day
> >after the election. At virtually no point did anyone consider, much less
> >explain, how voting for Gore fit into a long-term strategy of bringing
> >about progressive change. In reality, there were basically only three
> >reasons for voting for Gore, only two of which made any real sense. One
> >reason is that you benefit from the existing inequalities in US society 
>and
> >understand that voting for Gore would help to preserve, if not increase,
> >those inequalities. This group actually behaved in a very strategically
> >rational manner and, of course, was well represented among those who
> >contributed so generously to Gore�s campaign. A second reason is that 
>while
> >you dislike what Gore and the Democrats have come to represent, you have
> >largely given up hope that there will ever be any better option. This too
> >is rational, though it is very cynical and can hardly be called 
>strategic.
> >The final reason is that while you dislike Gore and the Democrats, you
> >believe (or hold out hope) that voting for Gore is somehow consistent 
>with
> >getting something better than Gore. This reason is also not strategic and
> >the rationality behind it is dubious at best.
> >This last group of voters in particular made very little effort to 
>examine
> >the long-term implications of their actions. If they had, they might have
> >realized what was the very best-case scenario of the vote-for-Gore 
>option:
> >a Gore victory in 2000; his reelection in 2004 (because the same logic of
> >preventing a Republican victory would have prevailed and the best 
>candidate
> >for that is an incumbent President); a victory by Lieberman in 2008 (as 
>the
> >heir apparent); and Lieberman�s reelection in 2012. It bears repeating 
>that
> >this would have been the very best-case scenario, a quarter century of
> >Clinton, Gore, and Lieberman. Not only would this have been unlikely; had
> >it occurred, it would also have dealt a severe blow to the chances of
> >constructing a progressive future. That is, unless it finally provided
> >indisputable evidence to enough Democratic Party loyalists that a third
> >party alternative was now necessary. This, however, is a �things have to
> >get worse before they get better� scenario that is neither promising nor
> >desirable.
> >         A closely related failure was the Gore backers� basic
> >misunderstanding of the difference between long-term and short-term 
>costs.
> >They aggressively reprimanded Nader supporters for supposedly ignoring 
>the
> >costs of their actions, particularly the costs borne by the weakest 
>members
> >of society who would pay most dearly for a Bush victory. This argument 
>has
> >a powerful emotional appeal, as it touches upon what should be at the 
>very
> >center of our political decision-making  the effects that our actions 
>have
> >on the weakest among us. No one backing Nader should have taken this
> >argument lightly. Yet, it artificially absolves the Gore backers of their
> >own responsibility by failing to consider the long-term costs of their
> >actions. If we are really concerned about people who are suffering and 
>want
> >to be certain that our decisions do the least harm to them, we cannot 
>focus
> >only on the short-term. We also have to consider the harm that will be 
>done
> >to them in the long term. We must ask ourselves whether the actions
> >designed to minimize short-term costs produce far greater costs in the
> >long-term by foregoing the possibility of future change. In other words,
> >will those actions reduce the likelihood that the weakest among us will
> >become full members of society and realize their life chances? These
> >questions (which are more relevant than ever in light of the recent
> >evolution of the Democratic Party), were virtually never raised, much 
>less
> >addressed, by the supporters of Al Gore.
> >         It deserves noting that no significant social change was ever
> >accomplished anywhere by focusing exclusively on short-term costs. 
>Indeed,
> >it is no exaggeration to state that in every case of significant social,
> >political, and economic progress in the history of human existence, the
> >protagonists of change have had to reject the argument that they should 
>be
> >careful and not rock the boat, because the balance of forces is against
> >them, things are unlikely to get better, and they can easily get worse.
> >That reality has not changed. The truth is that, much like the periods
> >preceding significant social change in the past, we are engulfed in an
> >increasingly severe vicious circle (or downward spiral). By definition,
> >breaking free of any vicious circle has significant short-term costs, but
> >the longer the decision to break free is put off, the more costly (and
> >hence unlikely) it becomes. Those who seek to democratize society must
> >confront this basic strategic dilemma head on. Their fear that a rupture
> >with the status quo may be too costly is very understandable, but they 
>must
> >also understand that by exercising excessive prudence, they will 
>contribute
> >to the perpetuation of current conditions and preclude the possibility of
> >future change. What it comes down to, then, is the kind of 
>self-fulfilling
> >prophecy we choose to be a part of  one that maintains conditions as they
> >are, or one that builds toward an alternative future.
> >         Yet another strategic weakness exhibited by the Gore backers was
> >their fundamental misunderstanding of what it takes to prevail in 
>politics.
> >At an abstract level, the answer of course is power, the capacity to 
>force
> >others to act in a way that they would not otherwise. But what does this
> >mean practically? In electoral politics, it means being willing to deny
> >support to parties and candidates, even at the risk of causing them to 
>lose
> >and helping to elect something or someone worse. The Senate Democrats� 
>role
> >in the recent confirmation of Bush�s cabinet appointments illustrates the
> >point. Presented with some of the most reactionary appointments in recent
> >memory, the Democrats made little or no effort to oppose them. In fact,
> >most were confirmed unanimously. Disturbed by this weak response, some
> >Democratic loyalists reacted in anger. For example, Patricia Ireland, the
> >president of NOW, declared: �There is a fairly angry and experienced 
>crowd
> >of activists who can be mobilized to bring a lot of public pressure,
> >mainly, in my view, on the Democrats  to keep the Democrats from folding
> >into the center-right agenda.� In a similar vein, Julian Bond, the
> >president of the NAACP, stated: �Democrats need to know that their votes
> >are monitored just as the Republicans� votes are monitored.� But these
> >statements beg some very fundamental questions. How does one keep the
> >Democrats from folding into the center-right? What is the point of
> >monitoring votes if one lacks the capacity to sanction those votes? What
> >form would those sanctions take? Are these credible threats then? In 
>truth,
> >the only way to ensure that the Democrats do the right thing is to put 
>the
> >fear of losing in them. But like so many others, both Ireland and Bond 
>have
> >made it so clear that they prefer anything to the Republicans that they
> >have no real leverage on the Democrats. The only way to gain leverage 
>would
> >be to make their support conditional, which means being willing to cause
> >them to lose their seats, and neither is willing to do that.
> >         At least Ireland and Bond recognize the Democrats� culpability.
> >Far more of those who backed Gore have reacted to the Bush appointments 
>by
> >claiming that they provide clear proof that voting for Gore was the 
>correct
> >thing to do. But the logic underpinning this argument is very cynical. It
> >rests fundamentally on the claim that we have no choice but to vote the
> >Democrats into the White House because we cannot trust them to use the
> >power at their disposal to do the right thing in the Congress. It thus
> >comes down to a form of blackmail: �If you don�t vote for our candidate,
> >we�ll stand aside and unleash a right-winger on the country.� This is why
> >the frequent invocation of Supreme Court Justices Scalia and Thomas 
>during
> >the election rang so hollow. Somehow overlooked was the fact that the
> >Democrats stood by and let those appointments go through when they had 
>the
> >power to block them. None of this, of course, is particularly novel. It 
>is
> >simply a continuation of a pattern that has been gaining momentum for
> >several decades.
> >         So much for the strategic shortcomings of the Gore backers. What
> >about the Nader/Green option? Did it really represent a promising
> >alternative, one that could serve as the basis for a new progressive
> >political movement? In many respects, it did, and perhaps still does. In
> >the first place, Nader was unmistakably the most progressive presidential
> >candidate to come along in at least a half century, if not longer. He
> >offered a program that not only addressed many of the country�s deepest
> >problems, but offered concrete proposals for dealing with them. He was 
>thus
> >the first candidate in decades to advance a clear vision of the future 
>that
> >progressives could enthusiastically embrace. He also demonstrated a solid
> >grasp of what it takes to get there, including an understanding of how
> >power functions and is distributed in this society, the differences 
>between
> >short- and long-term costs, and the crucial role of social mobilization.
> >Indeed, in this last regard, he has strong links to the social forces 
>that
> >emerged in the Seattle demonstrations in November 1999, probably the most
> >significant instance of mass social mobilization to materialize in 
>decades.
> >Moreover, although he has never been elected to political office, he has
> >long experience in working with Congress and has an impressive list of
> >legislative accomplishments, certainly far more impressive than almost 
>any
> >member of Congress.
> >         All of this suggests that if one were to opt for a third party
> >candidate, this was going to be the time. If progressives remained 
>hesitant
> >in the face of this unique historical opportunity, and were even willing 
>to
> >actively undermine it by voting for Gore, it therefore likely meant that
> >they are fundamentally pessimistic about the prospects for a viable third
> >party emerging. But shouldn�t they be? Isn�t the history of third party
> >efforts in the U.S. pretty terrible? And isn�t this primarily because our
> >electoral system is simply inhospitable to third parties? Moreover, 
>doesn�t
> >it make more sense to work at the local level, and establish a third 
>party
> >presence there, before launching a campaign at the presidential level 
>where
> >the stakes are so high? In any case, isn�t the Green Party badly 
>organized
> >and therefore not a particularly promising vehicle? And haven�t Nader and
> >the Greens failed to reach out to African Americans and other people of
> >color, a crucial constituency in any progressive movement? For all of 
>these
> >reasons, would it not therefore make more sense to try to work through 
>the
> >Democratic Party?
> >         The truth is that the history of third party efforts in the U.S.
> >is terrible and it does have a great deal to do with the nature of our
> >electoral system. But this is not a reason to abandon all future efforts.
> >Indeed, the immutable status we give to our electoral system is actually
> >quite mind-boggling. Somehow, many of us are capable of condemning the 
>most
> >deep-seated socio-economic problems, but when it comes to a destructive
> >institutional feature of our political system, we accept it as permanent,
> >almost as though it were part of the natural order of things. This 
>attitude
> >is all the more astounding given the enormous benefits electoral reforms
> >such as proportional representation or even instant run-off voting would
> >instantly produce (e.g., a widening of our political options, greatly
> >expanded participation, and the elimination of the �spoiler� effect) and
> >the very fertile terrain for electoral reform created by the Florida
> >debacle. Ironically, it is even possible to take advantage of the current
> >electoral system to advance such reforms. In fact, the two states where 
>IRV
> >is being seriously considered are precisely those states where a strong
> >third party has created a spoiler effect: New Mexico and Alaska. In both
> >cases, it is the party that has been transformed from a winner into a 
>loser
> >(the Democrats in New Mexico and the Republicans in Alaska) that is most
> >interested in reform  here we see how �losing� can be a positive force 
>for
> >change. There is no reason, moreover, why this cannot also be 
>accomplished
> >at the national level, since the logic behind it is unaffected by scale.
> >         Any effort to establish a third party should also involve a 
>great
> >deal of work at the local level. However, this does not preclude 
>launching
> >a national, presidential campaign. Rather than being mutually exclusive
> >strategies, they can be mutually reinforcing. A good example of this is
> >Madison, Wisconsin, where an already strong local party, Progressive 
>Dane,
> >made a strategic decision to get involved in the Nader campaign precisely
> >because of the benefits it would have for building their organization. 
>And
> >as a result, they have experienced a surge of hundreds of new, very
> >actively engaged members. One reason this makes sense is the 
>de-politicized
> >nature of our political culture. Unfortunately, most Americans, to the
> >degree we are at all interested in politics, focus on the national level.
> >In other words, only a national, presidential campaign has the capacity 
>of
> >politicizing people rapidly. It is highly unlikely, for example, that the
> >tens of thousands of enthusiastic people who paid $10 each to attend
> >Nader�s �super rallies� would have been similarly inspired and energized 
>in
> >the absence of the Nader campaign. Thus, rather than slowly building a
> >local presence all across the country before launching a national 
>campaign,
> >it makes more sense to jump-start the whole process by advancing both
> >efforts simultaneously.
> >         The Green Party is also not particularly well organized or
> >experienced, and in fact, suffers from some not insignificant divisions.
> >But this is also not a sufficient reason to write it off. Arguing that we
> >cannot opt for a third party until such a party is strong, well 
>organized,
> >and experienced is to create a catch-22. If our involvement is essential 
>to
> >building such a party, waiting until it emerges before we lend it our
> >support is to ensure its demise. In any case, there is no reason to stake
> >our hopes on the Green Party as the only possible third party 
>alternative.
> >It is simply a vehicle, and a rather open one at that. The same is true 
>of
> >Nader. In fact, we should be very wary of attaching our political agenda
> >too closely to any individual. But no matter where we begin, we will have
> >to confront the reality that organizations are weak in their infancy. In
> >order to attain the strength of adulthood, they require substantial
> >nurturing, not a wait-and-see attitude.
> >         Nader and the Greens also did a very poor job of reaching out to
> >people of color, probably the greatest weakness of their campaign. In 
>fact,
> >it was not until very late in the game that Nader began to address their
> >concerns explicitly. And not surprisingly, he did poorly among minority
> >voters. Yet, there is no significant reason why this cannot change. 
>Despite
> >Nader�s limited efforts in this regard, he focused far more directly on
> >issues of concern to minority voters than Gore did, including support for
> >affirmative action, an end to racial profiling, an end to the war on 
>drugs,
> >abolition of the death penalty, closing the racial wealth gap, and even
> >reparations for slavery. Much of his poor showing among those voters thus
> >had as much to do with the suppression of his message as the failure to
> >deliver it more effectively. Moreover, unlike the Democratic Party, in
> >which there are major structural obstacles to advancing a program that
> >addresses the needs of people of color, there are no such obstacles in 
>the
> >Green Party.
> >         But despite all this, shouldn�t Nader have sought to advance his
> >progressive agenda through the Democratic Party instead, given that it is
> >organizationally more developed and still has the most significant
> >progressive following of any political party? A number of people have in
> >fact advanced this argument, including Representative Barney Frank of
> >Massachusetts. Invariably, they point to Jesse Jackson as the best model 
>of
> >what can be accomplished. This is a curious choice of models, however,
> >since Jackson�s experience is a far better example of the limitations of
> >the Democratic Party. As noted above, Jackson�s rainbow coalition set off
> >alarm bells in the party and the current political leadership went to 
>great
> >lengths to ensure that it was defeated. Recent developments, moreover,
> >suggest that the chances of such an effort succeeding are more limited 
>than
> >ever (e.g., the naming of super fundraiser Terry McAuliffe as the new
> >chairman of the Democratic National Committee and the DLC�s insistence 
>that
> >a main reason for Gore�s defeat was his excessively populist campaign).
> >None of this rules out the possibility of progressives taking control of
> >the party. That possibility, however, is extremely small and it would
> >require somehow surmounting the overwhelming and growing power that 
>moneyed
> >interests have in the party. It would also require a radical change in
> >strategy on the part of progressive Democrats. Ironically, perhaps the 
>one
> >factor that could significantly strengthen their leverage vis-�-vis their
> >internal party rivals is the emergence of a strong third political party.
> >
> >
> >Notes
> >
> >  John Nichols, �The Great Debate. Nader Has Inspired Bitter Debates on 
>the
> >Left. Isn�t it Terrific?,� In These Times, November 13, 2000.
> >  Quoted in Alexander Cockburn and Jeffery St. Clair, Al Gore: A User�s
> >Manual (London: Verso, 2000).
> >  On media coverage of the Nader campaign, see Ralph Nader, �My Untold
> >Story,� Brill�s Content, February 2001, and Robert McChesney, et al., 
>�The
> >Nader Campaign and the Future of U.S. Left Electoral Politics,� Monthly
> >Review, Vol. 52, No. 9, February 2001.
> >  See for example the extraordinary letter by Representative John Conyers
> >to The Nation (November 20, 2000).
> >  Aside from the large-scale disenfranchisement of African American 
>voters,
> >a big part of the reason Gore lost the all-important state of Florida was
> >the vast number of Democrats and self-described liberals who voted for
> >Bush. In fact, while 24,000 Democrats voted for Nader, more than twelve
> >times as many (308,000) voted for Bush, and among self-described 
>liberals,
> >the ratio was 191,000 to 34,000 (or nearly 6 to 1). Bush also beat Gore
> >among white women (53% to 44%) and voters 65 and older (51% to 47%) (see
> >Jim Hightower, �How Florida Democrats Torpedoed Gore,� in Salon.com,
> >November 27, 2000). Similar trends prevailed nationwide (see the CNN exit
> >poll at www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/epolls/US/P000.html). In fact, 
>according
> >to a Voter News Service exit poll, only 47% of the Nader voters would 
>have
> >voted for Gore in a two-way race, while 21% would have voted for Bush and
> >30% would not have voted at all.
> >  William Greider, �Nader and the Politics of Fear,� The Nation, March 
>12,
> >2001.
> >  Ibid.
> >  Thomas Ferguson and Joel Rogers, Right Turn: The Decline of the 
>Democrats
> >and the Future of American Politics (New York: Hill and Wang, 1986).
> >  Ruy Teixeira and Joel Rogers, America�s Forgotten Majority: Why the 
>White
> >Working Class Still Matters (New York: Basic Books, 2000).
> >  Carter won only 48% of the union vote and only 44% of the working class
> >vote. Deepening a process that had gained momentum throughout the decade,
> >there was also a dramatic decrease in voter turnout among lower-class
> >groups. Frances Fox Piven and Richard Cloward, Why Americans Still Don�t
> >Vote and Why Politicians Want it That Way (Boston: Beacon Press, 2000),
> >pp.116, 121-125.
> >  Piven and Cloward, Why Americans Still Don�t Vote, p.150.
> >  Ferguson and Rogers, Right Turn, p.202.
> >  Teixera and Rogers, America�s Forgotten Majority.
> >  Jesse Jackson Jr., �George Bush�s Democrats,� The Nation, January 22,
> >2001.
> >  Ruth Conniff, �Cancel the Honeymoon,� The Progressive, February 2001.
> >  Ibid.
> >  This may also explain why no one reacted when Joseph Lieberman declared
> >on national television a week before the election that he would have 
>voted
> >to confirm Robert Bork if he had been a Senator at the time. Houston
> >Chronicle, October 30, 2000.
> >  �Ruth Conniff referees a match between Barney Frank and Ralph Nader,� 
>The
> >Progressive, November 2000.
> >  Recently, Robert Reich has become so disillusioned as to conclude that
> >the Democratic Party is dead. See �The Democrats Aren�t �Just Resting�,�
> >Washington Post, March 11, 2001.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Ben Manski
> >   Green Party of the United States
> >   Steering Committee
> >       manski@...
> >       http://www.gp-us.org/
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>coalitionforjustice-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2001
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-03 12:05:36
Subject:politics &'brass'
Message:

im me, h-fraud. recognize. tho theres steady mystery about who you claim to 
be...

'evidence' that you pushed 'boycott as revolutionary' in '96 clinton/dole 
race, &claimed contradictions between were 'more apparent than real'? for 
real?

as witness, the 10odd other members of the 'unity&struggle' study group from 
which you arranged my secret expulsion in summer '96, for exposing yr 
pro-republican schemes.

also the '96 'special issue' (fraudulent) u&s 'boycott!' leaflet which you 
published w/o knowledge of u&s editors modibo & baraka, &according to them, 
in subversive violation of u&s position: 'attack clinton/defeat dole!' 
(smash schundler/keep mcgreasy in the fire; peoples' war on the right! &tc.)

'missive'? its all jigga (todays shakespeare). holla.

i do this for my culture
let em know how to move
in a room full of vultures
industrys shady-need to be takin over
niggas say you owe us
for all the years that you hoed us
we can talk but money talks
so talk mo bucks

im from the streets where the
hoods is swallowin me
bullets is followin me
so much coke that you could run a slalom
cops comb the shit top to bottom
they say we are prone to violence
but its home sweet home
where personalities clash
and chrome meets chrome

chizzill my nizzil

nothins personal,
clizziff

*see how this joker moves to expel me, then tries to engage (bait?) me?


>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
>To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [onepeoplesproject] rules needed
>Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 21:38:00 -0400
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 10:36 AM
>Subject: RE: [onepeoplesproject] rules needed
>
>
> > i dont like fraudulent theories which help bush against the people.
> > nothins personal.
> >
>
>All right, Cliff. You start off a letter with "all eyes on hunger-fraud the
>'judas-goat'." Then you have the brass to say "nothins personal." (sic)
>
>It reminds me of what Lenin calls "the 'always say no' trick: 'I'm not me;
>the horse isn't mine; I'm not the driver. We're not Economists; Rabochaya
>Mysl doesn't stand for Economism; there is no Economism at all in Russia.'
>This is a remarkably adroit and 'politicking' trick, which suffers from the
>slight defect, however, that the publications practicing it are usually
>nicknamed: 'Anything you wish, sir.'"
>(from "What Is to Be Done?"):
>
>But never mind. See if you can answer two questions in a principled way.
>
>1. Your letter that started all this says of me:
>"& encouraged splitting the anti-dole vote in '96, saying the 
>contradictions
>between clinton & dole were "illusions", and endorsing a "boycott".
>
>What evidence do you have that I ever did that? I mean, facts.
>
>2. Did you write that little missive yourself?
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2002
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-03 12:42:37
Subject:who sabotaged the nbpcmembers egroup?
Message:

why is the 'post message' option eliminated the week before the 
meeting?

shady business, people.
i sense fear.

cs








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2003
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-03 12:54:55
Subject:lumumba
Message:

Lumbumba
Raoul Peck
                                                                           
2000
                                                                             
             Scott 123
Friday 10/19
Saturday 10/20
Sunday 10/21

A compelling political thriller, filmed with a meticulous attention to 
historical facts, Lumumba is the heroic and tragic
story of legendary African freedom fighter and visionary Patrice Lumumba. In 
1960, when the Belgian Congo was
granted its independence, the charismatic Lumumba became the nation�s first 
Prime Minister. His refusal to bow to
colonialist and capitalist interests made him the target of a planned 
assassination, aided by the CIA. Eriq Ebouamey is
terrific in the starring role. In French, subtitled. 115 min; 2000.

This program was made possible with the support of the
Cultural Services of the French Embassy, The Cultural Ministry of�France, 
and the Rutgers University Center For
African Studies.


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2004
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-03 22:31:57
Subject:Fwd: IMPORTANT- From Dhesheh to Durban
Message:

I received this message from:
"jamal al-din talib" <j_a_m_a_l@...>

*******************************************


This comes from a comrade who just went from Palestine to Durban for the 
conference, and will be returning here to organize. Things seem to be 
picking up steam.

Now is the time to begin organizing and generating momentum, educating 
locally and look towards building yourself into the larger movement to free 
Palestine.

Do something, anything today... talk to one person, learn one fact, open one 
door to freedom for the people of Palestine.



>From: "Andrew Clarno" To: J_A_M_A_L@... Subject: Fwd: From Dhesheh 
>to Durban - part 2 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 12:46:39
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Muna Hamzeh"
To:
Subject: From Dhesheh to Durban - part 2
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 09:52:00 -0500
From:
August 31, 2001
Durban, South Africa
"From Dheisheh to Durban - 2"
Dear Friends,
Today is a birthday of a new movement. We took part in an official
kick-off of the International Anti-Apartheid Movement Against Israel,
launched by the South Africans who won the fight against Apartheid in
their own country.
The kick-off was declared at a rally after a mass demonstration in
which tens of thousands of people took the streets of Durban.
Organized by SANGOCO (South African NGO Coalition), PSC (Palestine
Solidarity Committee), Durban Social Forum and other grassroots
groups, the demonstration was not only joined by the conference
delegates but also by thousands of South Africans - activists, trade
unionists, students - who arrived by buses and trains from all over
the country.
Those who traveled from far away provinces were mostly landless
people, who, in striking resemblence with the Palestinian situation,
were forcibly removed from their lands and are subjugated to adjuct
poverty. The people of landless movement came to demand their right
to land and to protest globalization and privatization, the main
causes of new economic apartheid in the post-1994 South Africa. Upon
their arrival yesterday, the International Landless Assembly was
held. Their struggle was supported by solidarity messages from the
peoples in similar situations, such as Dalit (so-called the
untouchables in Caste system of India), Rigoberta Menchu of
Guatemala, and the Palestinians: Ziad Abbas, Co-director of Ibdaa and
Manar Faraj, a 15-year-old youth activist from Dheisheh camp.
In the two days leading up to the demonstration, supporters of
Palestinian cause and Zionist groups had daily verbal confrontations
at the conference site. A small group of Zionists set up a table
(without permission, breaking the conference rule on registration)
and distributed flyers stating that "Arabs are hijacking WCAR," "WCAR
is not a conference about racism, it is a racist conference," etc. A
spontenious demonstration by Palestinian supporters broke out in
front of the table, led by South Africans and joined by tens of
Arabs, Burmese, Dalits, Japanese, Indians, Americans, Europeans,
Senegalese, and many others in a kaffiya, while holding up signs,
posters, and Palestinian flags. The police formed a line to separate
the two groups. The Zionists, mainly several white male dressed in
dark suit, kept singing a same verse "all what we say is give peace a
chance" from a John Lennon song. They also tried to hand flowers to
Palestinian supporters, who rejected by chanting "no justice, no
peace!" Some local and electronic media reported the incidence,
including the song and flowers, but failed to describe the context -
their presence stood out in the warm and supportive atmosphere of
solidarity in this conference, and virtually nobody joined to sing
with them in a stark contrast to the Palestinian side.
Today's demonstration, estimated at 30,000 - 50,000 people and
possibly the largest one since 1994, was vibrant and musical. South
Africans, long-time strugglers and experts of organizing, would
punctuate the chanting and marching by breaking out doing 'toi toi
(singing, dancing and chanting in a circle)' while crowds, leaders,
marshalls worked together beautifully. Thousands of colorful signs
in the air read "Israel is an apartheid state" "Zionism is
Racism" "Land for the Landless" "Sharon is a war criminal" etc. To
the South Africans, the resemblense between theirs and Palestinian
situations required no explaination. At the rally, a number of
speeches were made in solidarity with the Palestinians; having
defeated their own apartheid with the help of international
community, it was now their duty to lend hands to the Palestinians to
fight against the Israeli apartheid. After a moving and powerful
speech by Manar from Dheisheh about her determination to continue the
struggle, Naeem Jeenah of PSC read the following declaration and,
with cheer and applause of the crowd, announced the official kick-off
of the movement.
best,
Shirabe Yamada
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shirabe_report
-----------------------------
Declaration by South Africans on Apartheid Israel and the Struggle
for a Democratic Secular Palestine.
The Palestinian rebellion has been a long time coming. Over three
decades of occupation is but one dimension of their tragedy. Driven
from their original homes, villages and land by sustained atrocities,
condemned to miserable camps, dispersed in a far-flung Diaspora,
subjected to massacres like the Sabra and Shatila slaughter of over
2000 refugees, and unending persecution.
The suffering in the West Bank and Gaza is the continuation of the
colonisation of all of Palestine. Zionist militias seized 75% of the
land and drove out 800 000 Palestinians through a series of massacres
between the partition of Palestine in 1947 and the formation of
Israel. With the declaration of the state of Israel, 385 out of 475
Palestinian cities, towns and villages were razed to the ground,
disappearing from the map. The 90 remaining were denuded of land,
confiscated without compensation.
We acknowledge the theft of the land and realise how today the Jewish
National Fund, a member of the World Zionist Organisation,
administers 93% of the land of Israel. To live on land, lease it,
sharecrop or work on it, one must establish four generations of
maternal Jewish descent. In Israel, such a lineage is necessary in
order to enjoy elementary rights. We cannot mistake the
quintessentially racist character of such a state. Israel is an
apartheid state, founded on pillage and predicated on exclusivity.
Rights flow from ethnic and religious identity.
We, South Africans who have lived through apartheid cannot be silent
as another entire people are treated as non-human beings; people
without rights or human dignity and facing daily humiliation. We
cannot permit a ruthless state to use military jets, helicopter gun-
ships and tanks on civilians. We cannot accept state assassinations
of activists, the torture of political prisoners, the murder of
children and collective punishment.
We, South Africans who lived for decades under rulers with a colonial
mentality see Israeli occupation as a strange survival of colonialism
in the 21st century. Only in Israel do we hear of `settlements'
and `settlers'. Only in Israel do soldiers and armed civilian groups
take over hilltops, demolish homes, uproot trees and destroy crops,
shell schools, churches and mosques, plunder water reserves, and
block access to an indigenous population's freedom of movement and
right to earn a living. These human rights violations were
unacceptable in apartheid South Africa and are an affront to us in
apartheid Israel.
We South Africans faced apartheid and exploitation, bullets and
prison, not with bouquets of flowers, but with resistance. We are
proud of this, our history. This is the history of all oppressed
people. Why should it be different for Palestinians? Born in squalid
refugee camps, living in poverty and believing the world community
does not care, more and more young Palestinians see empty futures,
aborted hopes and feel unbearable frustrations. The great African-
American poet, Langston Hughes, asked: "What happens to a dream
deferred? Does it dry up like a raisin in the sun.or does it
explode?" The shocking suicide bombings answers this rhetorical
question. Apartheid Israel has created a situation in which people
feel they have nothing to lose. This dangerous situation could be
reversed, if the Israeli state and the one country that funds and
supports it unconditionally- the US, as well as the world community,
act in a moral and just manner.
It's Apartheid Again!
We note how the Israeli state rests on overt repression, a system of
structural violence and institutionalised discrimination that
dehumanises one group to the advantage of another. Apartheid Israel
has developed an elaborate system of racial discrimination, embedded
in its legal system-even surpassing Apartheid South Africa's laws.
These laws include the Law of Entry, the Law of Return, Citizenship
Law, legally sanctioned discriminatory rabbinical rulings and the
Military Service Law. Palestinians are denied various welfare
benefits, access to many jobs, and the leasing of homes and land
controlled by government bodies. We realise that while Palestinians
within the '48 borders may vote, they face these discriminatory laws
and are treated like third class citizens. Electricity, sewerage,
roads and water supplies are provided free to Israeli households
whereas many Palestinian communities in Israel, let alone the
occupied territories, have existed for decades without adequate
services. The Israeli education system is racist in practice and in
content. Almost no Arab history is covered and there are no Arab
textbooks in the Israeli curricula. Palestinians also face
significant barriers in gaining access to universities. In South
Africa similar factors contributed to the Uprisings in 1976 and the
1980s.
Laws governing land ownership such as the Law of Acquisition of
Absentee Property and the Law for Acquisition of Land blatantly
discriminate against Palestinians. Although settlers constitute a
tiny minority in the West Bank, they own 60 percent of the land. Many
of these settlers come from the US, the ex-Soviet Union and South
Africa. In Gaza, 6000 settlers live among a population of one million
Palestinians yet they own 42 percent of the land. Land ownership in
Palestine is more unjust than it ever was in South Africa. At the
height of apartheid black people nominally `controlled' 13 percent
of the land, in Israel the oppressed control only 2 percent. The
Israeli government also pursues a grossly discriminatory water
policy. In Gaza in 1985, for instance, settlers consume about 2000
cubic meters of water per person; Palestinians are allowed to consume
only about 120.
Despite the terminology, we recognise segregation when we see it. The
policy of `closures' is a policy of segregation. Blockades which
allow settlers free movement but restrict Palestinians have lost 100
000 workers their jobs. Some roads are for settlers only. The
Israeli government issues identification cards and car number-plates,
colour coded, which restrict travel for non-Jews. Palestinians in the
West Bank are routinely prevented from travelling to the Gaza Strip
because they have to travel through `Israeli' territory. No
significant industry has been permitted to develop in the West Bank
or Gaza. Consequently, Palestinians are concentrated in the lowest
paying jobs and form a super-exploited labour force for Israeli
capital. The occupied territories import 93% of goods but export a
mere 7% of what they produce. Palestinian exports to Western Europe
are banned so as not to compete with Israeli exports. Ninety percent
of Palestinian workers must travel to Jewish towns for employment.
Israel is, simply, an Apartheid state. Apartheid laws, such as the
pass system and influx control, bantustans, job reservation, bantu
education and laws resulting in unequal resource allocation live on.
As one South African journalist wrote after visiting Israel: "In both
countries [apartheid South Africa and apartheid Israel] `subordinate
races' were dispossessed of their land and crowded into marginal,
drought-stricken ghettoes; their movement was restricted; access to
education and skilled jobs limited so that they inevitably sank into
a pool of low wage labour. In both societies, bans on inter-marriage
and daily lives segregated by race did little to dispel the fear and
ignorance that feeds racial bigotry."
Globalisation's Watchdog.
Israel is the highest recipient of US support. In return, it makes
its own contributions to maintaining the imperialist world order and
stability for transnational corporations, particularly oil companies.
In the `70s it supplied the military dictatorships of El Salvador,
Guatemala and Nicaragua with more military hardware than the US. It
supports adventures and trains personnel of unpopular regimes the US
does not openly want to be identified with. The latest regime is
Turkey, which brutally suppresses its trade unions, workers'
organisations and the Kurds. In its illegal blockade of Cuba, the
only support for the US now comes from Israel. Of course, we will
never forget the support Israel provided to apartheid South Africa.
While the world condemned apartheid in South Africa as a crime
against humanity, Israel happily cemented trade, cultural, military
and nuclear links with the white minority regime.
A Bantustan or a Democratic Secular State?
We realise that the `peace plan' brokered by the US at Oslo, Camp
David, and the Wye River were recipes for continued misery and
poverty for millions of Palestinians. Rather than promise a future of
peaceful co-existence they virtually guaranteed a continuation of
conflict and violence. They proposed a Bantustan, a `state' with a
dependent economy, no contiguous territory and no substantial power,
where Palestinians can be exploited, controlled, restricted and
confined in reservations. A dependent Bantustan alongside an
apartheid state is a mockery of self-determination-as it existed in
apartheid South Africa and now in apartheid Israel. In Israel, no
less than in South Africa, minimum justice requires dismantling the
apartheid state and replacing it with a democratic secular Palestine,
where Jews and Arabs, Christians and Muslims, live together with
equal rights and opportunities.
We observe the stone throwing children of Jabaliya, the Beach Camp,
Balata, Khan Younis and Dheisheh and we see the response to over
five decades of outrageous tyranny and occupation. It is echoed in
those Israeli Jews who resist the oppression of others, like
Mordechai Vanunu who, in 1986, was sentenced by a secret security
court to 18 years in prison for exposing Israel's nuclear plans and
indirectly Israel's nuclear collaboration with apartheid South
Africa.
We reject the calumny that to condemn Israeli apartheid or
Zionism's `ethnic cleansing' implies animus against Jews; or that
it attempts to diminish the Holocaust. The opposite is true. As the
famed violinist Lord Yehudi Menuhin told the French newspaper Le
Figaro "It is extraordinary how nothing ever dies completely. Even
the evil which prevailed yesterday in Nazi Germany is gaining ground
in that country [Israel] today".
We, South Africans, extend our hands to the heroic people of
Palestine. Theirs is the struggle, slingshots in hand, of David
against Goliath. Theirs is the vision of a country shorn of racist
dominion. Theirs is the passion for life without oppression. Theirs
is the struggle, Arab and Jews to be free from discrimination and
injustice. As South Africans we understand these struggles, visions
and passions. We support the demand to isolate Apartheid Israel, the
right of return of millions of Palestinian refugees and the
dismantling of racist settlements. We pledge ourselves to be part of
a new International Anti-Apartheid movement against Israel.
Issued by the Palestine Solidarity Committee.
-------------------------------
Middle East Children's Alliance
PO Box 250706, New York, NY 10027
Tel/Fax: 1-212-666-8512
www.mecaforpeace.org


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2005
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-04 09:57:37
Subject:Women's Victory 2001
Message:

Women's Defense-Smash Schundler!


                 Abortion rights may define race

                             Published in the Courier News on August 10, 
2001

                             Whatever one might think of the pros and cons 
of a gubernatorial campaign between Jim McGreevey and Bret Schundler, there 
is virtually universal agreement on this much: voters have a clear choice 
before them in November.

                             But according to a recent poll, Schundler may 
have reason to hope that abortion does not become the subject of decision 
for most voters.

                             Schundler, the conservative former mayor of 
Jersey City, and McGreevey, the Democratic mayor of Woodbridge, offer widely 
different positions on many issues that, frankly, are more relevant to the 
professional responsibilities of the governor of New Jersey than abortion. 
But that does not keep the abortion issue from                            
taking on an emotional, high-profile life of its own. And in an era          
                    when many politicians hedge their abortion stances in 
hopes of                             avoiding extremist labels from the 
other side, Schundler is                             unabashedly 
anti-abortion in virtually all cases. McGreevey                             
supports abortion rights.

                             Schundler has shown little indication that he 
wishes to downplay such a controversial topic. But he, as well as state 
Republicans, have undoubtedly taken note of a poll released this week 
showing New Jerseyans overwhelmingly support abortion rights. Half say 
abortions should be generally available to women, and another 35
percent say abortions should be allowed, with stricter limits. Only
14 percent consider themselves anti-abortion. Meanwhile, another poll shows 
McGreevey's lead in the governor's race growing.

                             The abortion poll puts fresh numbers to the 
long-held perception that New Jerseyans as a whole are moderate supporters 
of a woman's right to choose -- and that any candidate hopeful of winning a 
statewide election will have a long road ahead if his position isn't in line 
with that public sentiment. In part because of that belief and its potential 
effect on a statewide race, some                            experts have 
said that Schundler must soften his position         somewhat to become 
governor. But we could never recommend                             that any 
politician throw a veil over his true feelings on an issue.

                             In fact, we like where this is headed so far -- 
and so should voters. Schundler's views on abortion may be shared by only a 
minority of New Jerseyans, but so what? That position is part of Schundler 
the person and Schundler the candidate, as are                             
his views on other issues -- some of them undeniably far to the              
                right, such as his support for allowing certain residents to 
carry                             concealed weapons.

                             Whatever we may think of Schundler's views, we 
can appreciate someone who stands by their convictions. That doesn't make 
Schundler any better or worse a candidate than Jim McGreevey, and doesn't 
make him any more or less right. We would hope                             
abortion would not decide an election, but voters have the right to          
                    base their decision on anything they wish -- and some 
questionably feel strongly enough about abortion rights to let that issue be 
the deciding factor.

                             Does any of this mean Schundler has to 
reposition himself on the issue? Of course not. Schundler has presented New 
Jersey with a very distinct choice for its next leader, and not just because 
of his  abortion stance. That's a good thing, no matter who you agree with.

                             OUR POSITION:

                             Bret Schundler's continued emphatic opposition 
to abortion rights   -- despite New Jerseyans' overwhelming support of such 
rights --    again illustrates the distinct choice voters will have in 
November's gubernatorial election.

                             from the Courier News

                             Published on August 10, 2001

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2006
Sender:eames@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-04 10:01:31
Subject:No More Star Petition
Message:

"" sends you the enclosed page from one of the Artifice web sites:

   http://www.PetitionOnline.com/starr/petition.html

    **    **    **

Personal comments from "":

scroll to bottom for petition


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2007
Sender:eames@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-04 10:01:48
Subject:No More Star Petition
Message:

"" sends you the enclosed page from one of the Artifice web sites:

   http://www.PetitionOnline.com/starr/petition.html

    **    **    **

Personal comments from "":

scroll to bottom for petition


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2008
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-04 10:18:00
Subject:Smash Schundler
Message:

read article below:

now is the time to make our NJ governor's race the weight around bush2's 
neck. there should be no lifeboats available- moderate republicans, 
democrats, and independents unite to defend democracy and our local 
independent movement- Sink Schundler! vote mcgreasy while organizing to 
seize our cities -
           ras baraka Newark Council May2002
           meet tuesday 7:30 808 S 10 Street Newark
           contact rasjuabaraka@...

           New Brunswick Elected School Board Mayor, 2 city council
           seats Nov2002
           New Brunswick Peoples Campaign meeting Saturday Sept 8
           2:00 pm NB Public Library Livingston Ave
           contact can_bush@...

               GOP fears landslide defeat
               Published in the Home News Tribune 9/03/01

               THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

               TRENTON -- Republican leaders are worried that their party's 
maverick candidate for governor will not only lose this fall's election but 
will also take his party down with him.

               "People are thinking about heading for the lifeboats," one 
Republican operative working on some legislative campaigns told The
Philadelphia Inquirer for yesterday's editions. "Soon, they'll be running 
for them."

               Party insiders told the newspaper that Bret Schundler's 
right-wing views are the problem.

               New Jersey is known for more moderate Republicans such as Bob 
Franks, the former U.S. Representative Schundler beat in the               
June primary.

               "What allowed him to be successful in the primary with that 
relatively small group of true believers is his real liability now," the
               operative said. "If he allows the election to become a 
referendum on guns and abortion and intolerance, we're doomed, and he'll 
take down the Legislature with him."

               Republicans have a 25-15 majority in the state Senate and a 
45-35 advantage in the Assembly.

               Republicans fear a Democratic landslide that could cost them 
both houses. In polls released last month, Schundler trailed Democrat
               Jim McGreevey by margins of about 20 percentage points.

               � copyright 2000 The Associated Press

               from the Home News Tribune

               Published: September 3, 2001

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Post ID:2009
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-04 10:35:46
Subject:Re: [coalitionforjustice] Who wrote that Aug. 28 letter, Smith?
Message:

there is no CU flier being discussed - rather a Unity & Struggle flier that 
called for 96 boycott that was put out against the U&S edit board position 
of attack clinton defeat dole.

why hasn't fraud stated his support for Baraka 2002? finger pointing only 
goes so far - we need people to do work. hungerfraud should be registering 
voters in newark.

joe smith


>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
>CC: "Coalition For Justice" <coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com>, "New 
>Jersey Freedom Organization" <njfo@egroups.com>, 
><nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>, <nbpcmembers@egroups.com>, 
><amirib@...>, <jmodibo@...>
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Who wrote that Aug. 28 letter, Smith?
>Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 20:41:21 -0400
>
>I asked Cliff Smith to be principled. He started his reply with an insult.
>
>I asked him to be factual about his allegations concerning the 1996
>Presidential election. He replied with a fantasy about a "secret" plot to
>expel him from the Unity & Struggle study group in the summer of 1996. 
>Smith
>left the study group because he had been expelled from the Communist Union.
>That happened before I joined the CU. I had no part in it.
>
>His account of what went on in the edit board of Unity & Struggle in the
>fall of 1996 is hearsay. Not even the bourgeoisie thinks hearsay is
>evidence, let alone fact.
>
>Not too surprising a response coming from someone who thinks he is above 
>any
>code of conduct because he is, if you please, against Bush.
>
>As to the CU flyer to which Smith refers, I append the text. Make up your
>own mind.
>
>I asked him if he wrote that ugly letter that went out over his name on
>August 28. He didn't answer. Translation: no. He didn't.
>
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>Clinton or Dole? Both are Worse! [1996]
>
>  Great danger lurks just under the surface of this year's presidential
>election. Bill Clinton does not lead in the polls because people want him 
>to
>win, but because the "Republican Revolution" of Newt Gingrich scared the
>mess out of so many people. However, the Republican "Contract on America"
>gave Clinton as much room as he wants to move to the right.
>      For example, as the U.S. ruling class hurls accusations of "human
>rights violations" at anyone they don't like, Democrat Clinton signed the
>vicious Republican "welfare reform" bill that will brutally violate the
>human rights of millions of poor people in the United States: the right to
>eat, the right to have a roof over your head, etc. He got the reactionary
>presidential line item veto that will take effect in the next term, which
>the Republicans could never get. He signed a fascistic "crime bill," and is
>presently working on an "anti-terrorism bill" of the same type. All this
>after he was elected on the promise of national health care.
>      As reactionary as Clinton is, Dole is even more. The trump card of 
>this
>long-time critic of "supply-side" economics and uncontrolled government 
>debt
>is a $545 billion tax cut. After this cut, federal expenditures would still
>cover the military  and debt service (of course!), and maybe (if there's
>anything left) Social Security. All else would be eliminated or be cut 
>back:
>Medicare, Federal aid to education, environmental controls (such as they
>are), what little remains of welfare, etc.
>      While Dole's candidacy is lagging, the possibility that the sudden
>eruption of some great foreign or domestic crisis will make Dole the
>president cannot be ruled out.
>      The problem for the masses of the people is that there is very little
>to keep either Clinton or Dole from sliding further to the right, even as
>far as fascism. We all know that democracy in the United States means
>democracy for the rich. What we need is democracy for the people.
>
>We need a Democratic Workers' Party!
>
>  The effects of a reformist progressive candidacy can be seen in Green 
>Party
>candidate Ralph Nader. His presence in the California Democratic primary
>earlier this year raised considerable alarms in the Clinton camp, despite
>the great difference in forces. His criticism of the corporate domination 
>of
>both the Republican and Democratic parties resounded with impact in the 
>huge
>vacuum to the left of Clinton.
>       The rollback of the New Deal through "welfare reform, " etc., shows
>how badly a real Democratic Workers' Party is needed. The ruling class has
>decided to throw away the option of reforms for dealing with social crisis.
>The only other method of dealing with such crises is through force (marking
>the rise of fascism). Therefore we must have a Democratic Workers' Party to
>unite all who stand in opposition to the rise of fascism. The people of the
>United States were too strong to permit fascism in the 1930s. There was 
>mass
>working class militancy in a genuine and growing Communist Party, huge
>unionization drives, and other resistance to the capitalists. It must be so
>again today!  We must have a new Communist Party also, to provide an
>unswerving standard of devotion to the working class and a bulwark against
>those who would sell out to the bourgeoisie. Communism, as an ideology, is
>the truest guarantee of firm adherence to the cause of the people. Do not 
>be
>blinded by anti-communism, a ruling class tool to make sure that the people
>can never break the domination of bourgeois thinking. We do not need
>bourgeois ideas.
>      The Democratic Workers' Party must be a united front, whether trade
>unionists, Methodists, Communists, ecologists, or feminists. Let us join
>together in struggle for a true, people's democracy.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
>Cc: <coalitionforjustice@egroups.com>; <njfo@egroups.com>;
><nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>; <nbpcmembers@egroups.com>;
><amirib@...>; <jmodibo@...>
>Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 12:05 PM
>Subject: [onepeoplesproject] politics &'brass'
>
>
> > im me, h-fraud. recognize. tho theres steady mystery about who you claim
>to
> > be...
> >
> > 'evidence' that you pushed 'boycott as revolutionary' in '96 
>clinton/dole
> > race, &claimed contradictions between were 'more apparent than real'? 
>for
> > real?
> >
> > as witness, the 10odd other members of the 'unity&struggle' study group
>from
> > which you arranged my secret expulsion in summer '96, for exposing yr
> > pro-republican schemes.
> >
> > also the '96 'special issue' (fraudulent) u&s 'boycott!' leaflet which 
>you
> > published w/o knowledge of u&s editors modibo & baraka, &according to
>them,
> > in subversive violation of u&s position: 'attack clinton/defeat dole!'
> > (smash schundler/keep mcgreasy in the fire; peoples' war on the right!
>&tc.)
> >
> > 'missive'? its all jigga (todays shakespeare). holla.
> >
> > i do this for my culture
> > let em know how to move
> > in a room full of vultures
> > industrys shady-need to be takin over
> > niggas say you owe us
> > for all the years that you hoed us
> > we can talk but money talks
> > so talk mo bucks
> >
> > im from the streets where the
> > hoods is swallowin me
> > bullets is followin me
> > so much coke that you could run a slalom
> > cops comb the shit top to bottom
> > they say we are prone to violence
> > but its home sweet home
> > where personalities clash
> > and chrome meets chrome
> >
> > chizzill my nizzil
> >
> > nothins personal,
> > clizziff
> >
> > *see how this joker moves to expel me, then tries to engage (bait?) me?
> >
> >
> > >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> > >Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [onepeoplesproject] rules needed
> > >Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 21:38:00 -0400
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
> > >To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 10:36 AM
> > >Subject: RE: [onepeoplesproject] rules needed
> > >
> > >
> > > > i dont like fraudulent theories which help bush against the people.
> > > > nothins personal.
> > > >
> > >
> > >All right, Cliff. You start off a letter with "all eyes on hunger-fraud
>the
> > >'judas-goat'." Then you have the brass to say "nothins personal." (sic)
> > >
> > >It reminds me of what Lenin calls "the 'always say no' trick: 'I'm not
>me;
> > >the horse isn't mine; I'm not the driver. We're not Economists; 
>Rabochaya
> > >Mysl doesn't stand for Economism; there is no Economism at all in
>Russia.'
> > >This is a remarkably adroit and 'politicking' trick, which suffers from
>the
> > >slight defect, however, that the publications practicing it are usually
> > >nicknamed: 'Anything you wish, sir.'"
> > >(from "What Is to Be Done?"):
> > >
> > >But never mind. See if you can answer two questions in a principled 
>way.
> > >
> > >1. Your letter that started all this says of me:
> > >"& encouraged splitting the anti-dole vote in '96, saying the
> > >contradictions
> > >between clinton & dole were "illusions", and endorsing a "boycott".
> > >
> > >What evidence do you have that I ever did that? I mean, facts.
> > >
> > >2. Did you write that little missive yourself?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
> >
> > IF YOU CONTINUE TO THINK AS YOU ALWAYS THOUGHT, YOU WILL CONTINUE TO GET
>WHAT YOU ALWAYS GOT!
> >
> > VISIT THE ONE PEOPLE'S PROJECT WEBSITE:
> > http://www.onepeople.mysticalzone.net
> >
> > ALSO VISIT OUR IRC CHANNEL:
> > #oprchat at dalnet
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > onepeoplesproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2010
Sender:BENJAMIN RAMOS <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-04 19:06:41
Subject:LIBERTAD PARA MUMIA!!-Sept.15th
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is calling on all peoples to support 
the upcoming Mumia Action on Saturday September 15th, 2001!!  It is time 
for all of us to stand and shout:

STOP THE KILLING OF AN INNOCENT MAN!!

Join the ProLibertad contingent to Philadelphia on Saturday Sept. 15th, 
2001!!  To buy a ticket contact Esperanza Martell of ProLibertad at our 
Manhattan Office 212-927-9065.  Bus tickets are $10 a piece and  the bus 
ProLibertad is mobilizing from will leave NYC at 10am SHARP from w168th 
St. and Broadway!!  Email us at ProLibertad@... for any 
additional questions or comments.

1pm Mass Demo
City hall
Broad and Market Sts.
Philadelphia PA

On Friday August 17th, Judge Dembe refused to schedule hearings 
regarding Arnold Beverly's highly credible confession to the crime for 
which Mumia Abu-Jamal was convicted and sentenced to death.  Judge Dembe 
showed strong inclination towards supporting the prosecutions' position 
that time deadlines take precedence over innocence or guilt!!  If there 
is no statute of limitation on murder, there is no statute of 
limitations on the confession of a murder!!  The confession must be 
heard in state court now!!

LIBERTAD PARA MUMIA!!
FREE MUMIA!!
LIBERTAD PARA LOS PRESOS POLITICOS PUERTORRIQUENOS!!
FREE THE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS!!







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2011
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-05 09:08:39
Subject:Who wrote that Aug. 28 letter, Smith?
Message:



>From: Amirib@...
>To: can_bush@..., jmodibo@..., vivaohio@...,        
>keithjoseph99@...
>Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Who wrote that Aug. 28 letter, Smith?
>Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 18:36:08 EDT
>
>Hah!  D-Hah wrote in Fab-W (the international utopian journal.....no lie, 
>raise it on the net) That we should "stop struggling for a Democracy wie 
>will never get".  So much for
>"Anti-Marx-Anti-Engels-Anti-Lenin-Anti-Mao-Sophistry".
>        "A Better World"?  What is the Class Nature of that ? "A Be
>tter World" for Whom?
>
>Green Party candidate for NJ Gov sez answer to Bushwacking of National
>Elections is "Instant Run-Offs" ( Aug '01 "GreenGram".) So he has neither 
>an understanding of Civil RIghts Movement struggle Against Run-offs, which 
>are used like Nwk Creeps did to Ras in '98,  to defeat progressive 
>candidates. Neither does he understand that People's Democracy requires  
>PARLIAMENTARY SYSTEM, where smallest sector of voters have representatives 
>in UNICAMERAL CONGRESS!
>        Apparently he has not a wink that Run-Offs in a bi cameral
>"constitutional monarchy " which US, with completely unrepresentational 
>bourgeois Watchdog SENATE, can be equated to,.would completely waste so 
>called 3rd parties.
>
>        Revolutionary Democracy must build movement for COMPLETE  Peoples' 
>Democratic reform of Electoral System, not fake "Left" reactionary 
>social-democratic Objective support for  undemocratic imperialist US!
>        Green is Right!


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Post ID:2012
Sender:"Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-05 19:36:07
Subject:proposal
Message:

Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8

The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming election and Smashing 
Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the Women's Caucus of the NBPC should 
organize and unite with all other women's organizations and head the efforts 
to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has already been in contact with Planned 
Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW  and McGreevey's campaign to schedule 
a NB event in October in  defense of women, public education, and unions and 
to demand voting and working rights for all. At least one child care center 
in NB has fired it's undocumented women teachers because these private 
daycares are now contracted out by the state. This displacement of latina 
community members in an attack on public education has to be organized 
around and McGreevey be forced to take a position on it.

Smash Schundler!
Women's Victory 2001!

Tamara

_________________________________________________________________
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Post ID:2013
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-05 22:53:07
Subject:Re: [onepeoplesproject] To all on this list
Message:

the "ghostwriter" "dragoons"?

shiver me timbers.

cliff


>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
>To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [onepeoplesproject] To all on this list
>Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 20:36:04 -0400
>
>  It is true, as Jenny says, that the recent exchanges between Cliff Smith, 
>Joseph Smith, Cliff Smith's ghostwriter, and myself have been unpleasant. I 
>assume that's what she refers to. But the exchanges were necessary.
>The dispute concerns whether to support or oppose the Democratic Party. It 
>is an important question. The August 28 letter signed by Cliff Smith was 
>very offensive. The reason was to hide the weakness of the 'support' 
>position. Hence there is a question of substance and a question of 
>principle. This does not amount to 'bickering.' Neither did I reply to 
>abuse with abuse.
>
>                I will say in self-criticism that I let the August 28 
>letter make me angry, as intended, and let the first exchange go on too 
>long.
>
>  Later I jumped back in. Cliff Smith said he is exempt from any code of 
>conduct because he opposes Bush. This is completely unacceptable. Then he 
>had the gall to say 'nothins personal.' After that letter!
>
>Even so I might have stayed out, but when I cooled down I realized the 
>August 28 letter over Smith's name had been written by someone else. This 
>can be seen from its style and content. Smith did not reply when I asked 
>him if he had written it. The equally ugly September 3 letter sounds like a 
>collaboration, though only Smith signed it. (The ghostwriter seems to have 
>copped, but I will leave that for another note.)
>
>                The ghostwriter tries to dragoon progressives into support 
>of Democrats by "making examples" of those who disagree with him. But he 
>lacks the courage to speak out in his own name. Smith fronts for him. It 
>adds up to a fundamental violation of political principle.
>
>                It is an abuse of everyone, not just me. There is nothing 
>of petty bickering in this. Whatever shortcomings I have shown, it would 
>have been far more damaging to let these things pass unopposed.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Jenny DuHaime
>   To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 5:36 PM
>   Subject: Re: [onepeoplesproject] To all on this list
>
>
>   OK Daryle, you asked for it!
>
>   We are all on this list because we do have certain things in common, the 
>most obvious being opposition to rascism. Since we are all different 
>individuals, there will be many diverse propsals on how to deal with a 
>given situation. Everyone should be w illing to hear out and consider ALL 
>ideas, even if you think you are completely opposed to the suggestion being 
>made. There are many reasons for this approach. In the process of hearing 
>someone else's perspective, you may change your's slightly. If not, you 
>should at least find yourself better able to debate your perspective in the 
>future. The key word here is debate, which, when done properly, leaves all 
>parties with a better understanding of their subject matter.
>
>   I would like to mention what I have been doing when I open an email that 
>starts off as, or degenerates into, name calling and petty bickering. I 
>delete it. Which means, for those of you who have sent these messages, any 
>points you are trying to make elsewhere in your message are being lost. 
>This is unfortunate, since I really do enjoy some of your writings, but I 
>don't have the time and energy to soak up all the negativity you are 
>directing at each other and subjecting everyone else to. Think of so 
>mething positive you could be doing with that energy.
>
>   If you do feel the need to debate, rather than argue, a point, please do 
>everyone a favor. After you type that message, put yourself in the shoes of 
>the person you are directing it toward and reread it. Then put yourself in 
>the shoes of those of us w ho are just observing the situation and read it 
>again. Finally, please make any changes that are needed in order to present 
>it appropriately.
>
>   Ultimately, racism is simply intolerance of others. Please do not turn 
>yourself into that which you are trying to erradicate.
>
>   Thank you to everyone for taking the time to read this,
>
>   Jenny
>
>
>
>   >From:
>   >Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
>   >To:
>   >Subject: [onepeoplesproject] To all on this list
>   >Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 00:14:58 -0400
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>onepeoplesproject-owner@yahoogroups.com
>   >Delivered-To: mailing list onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
>   >Precedence: bulk
>   >List-Unsubscribe:
>   >
>   >This listserv belong to everyone that is on it, but that means we 
>should all
>   >be respecting each other. There should be no name calling nor personal
>   >squabbles brought here. That has happened. If you have been reading the
>   >recent posts, you know the concern. I will not take anyone off this 
>Egroup.
>   >It will be a decision made with all of us. The only time I have banned
>   >someone from this list is when I found someone trying to subscribe that 
>I
>   >knew to be a neo-nazi (that has happened at least three times). Other 
>than
>   >that, I want to hear from the rest of you (yes, you too, my dear friend 
>in
>   >Cleveland) on your thoughts concerning this issue.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >DLJ
>   >
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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>
>                           Start here...
>
>                           Height:
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>
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>
>
>
>   IF YOU CONTINUE TO THINK AS YOU ALWAYS THOUGHT, YOU WILL CONTINUE TO GET 
>WHAT YOU ALWAYS GOT!
>
>   VISIT THE ONE PEOPLE'S PROJECT WEBSITE:
>   http://www.onepeople.mysticalzone.net
>
>   ALSO VISIT OUR IRC CHANNEL:
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2014
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-05 23:38:43
Subject:o what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive...
Message:

stop lying, h-fraud.

1. "As to the CU flyer to which Smith refers..."

   there is no CU flyer.

   this guy subversively published a leaflet under the 'Unity &
   Struggle' banner, in summer '96, calling to boycott the clinton/
   dole presidential election.

   the actual U&S position was (correctly) 'attack clinton, defeat
   dole!'

   U&S editors Modibo & Amiri Baraka and others will corroborate this.

   furthermore, i can produce the leaflet.

2. "Smith left the study group because he had been expelled from the
   Communist Union."

   i never left the U&S study group. after opposing h-fraud's
   "boycott!" scheme, i was "dis-invited" (expelled) from the group.
   there was never a vote in my presence. i was given no explanation
   of any kind.

   CU (comprised of the same people as the study group, sans h-fraud)
   expelled me soon after, not before. subsequently, h-fraud joined
   into CU.

   i was then expelled (again by the same people) from new jersey
   freedom organization, and most recently, new brunswick peoples'
   campaign, again for opposing pro-republican schemes.

   for anyone who wants further proof, witnesses & participants can be
   produced.

uh huh
ok
whats up
shut up

cliff

>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
>CC: "Coalition For Justice" <coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com>, "New 
>Jersey Freedom Organization" <njfo@egroups.com>, 
><nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>, <nbpcmembers@egroups.com>, 
><amirib@...>, <jmodibo@...>
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Who wrote that Aug. 28 letter, Smith?
>Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 20:41:21 -0400
>
>I asked Cliff Smith to be principled. He started his reply with an insult.
>
>I asked him to be factual about his allegations concerning the 1996
>Presidential election. He replied with a fantasy about a "secret" plot to
>expel him from the Unity & Struggle study group in the summer of 1996. 
>Smith
>left the study group because he had been expelled from the Communist Union.
>That happened before I joined the CU. I had no part in it.
>
>His account of what went on in the edit board of Unity & Struggle in the
>fall of 1996 is hearsay. Not even the bourgeoisie thinks hearsay is
>evidence, let alone fact.
>
>Not too surprising a response coming from someone who thinks he is above 
>any
>code of conduct because he is, if you please, against Bush.
>
>As to the CU flyer to which Smith refers, I append the text. Make up your
>own mind.
>
>I asked him if he wrote that ugly letter that went out over his name on
>August 28. He didn't answer. Translation: no. He didn't.
>
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>Clinton or Dole? Both are Worse! [1996]
>
>  Great danger lurks just under the surface of this year's presidential
>election. Bill Clinton does not lead in the polls because people want him 
>to
>win, but because the "Republican Revolution" of Newt Gingrich scared the
>mess out of so many people. However, the Republican "Contract on America"
>gave Clinton as much room as he wants to move to the right.
>      For example, as the U.S. ruling class hurls accusations of "human
>rights violations" at anyone they don't like, Democrat Clinton signed the
>vicious Republican "welfare reform" bill that will brutally violate the
>human rights of millions of poor people in the United States: the right to
>eat, the right to have a roof over your head, etc. He got the reactionary
>presidential line item veto that will take effect in the next term, which
>the Republicans could never get. He signed a fascistic "crime bill," and is
>presently working on an "anti-terrorism bill" of the same type. All this
>after he was elected on the promise of national health care.
>      As reactionary as Clinton is, Dole is even more. The trump card of 
>this
>long-time critic of "supply-side" economics and uncontrolled government 
>debt
>is a $545 billion tax cut. After this cut, federal expenditures would still
>cover the military  and debt service (of course!), and maybe (if there's
>anything left) Social Security. All else would be eliminated or be cut 
>back:
>Medicare, Federal aid to education, environmental controls (such as they
>are), what little remains of welfare, etc.
>      While Dole's candidacy is lagging, the possibility that the sudden
>eruption of some great foreign or domestic crisis will make Dole the
>president cannot be ruled out.
>      The problem for the masses of the people is that there is very little
>to keep either Clinton or Dole from sliding further to the right, even as
>far as fascism. We all know that democracy in the United States means
>democracy for the rich. What we need is democracy for the people.
>
>We need a Democratic Workers' Party!
>
>  The effects of a reformist progressive candidacy can be seen in Green 
>Party
>candidate Ralph Nader. His presence in the California Democratic primary
>earlier this year raised considerable alarms in the Clinton camp, despite
>the great difference in forces. His criticism of the corporate domination 
>of
>both the Republican and Democratic parties resounded with impact in the 
>huge
>vacuum to the left of Clinton.
>       The rollback of the New Deal through "welfare reform, " etc., shows
>how badly a real Democratic Workers' Party is needed. The ruling class has
>decided to throw away the option of reforms for dealing with social crisis.
>The only other method of dealing with such crises is through force (marking
>the rise of fascism). Therefore we must have a Democratic Workers' Party to
>unite all who stand in opposition to the rise of fascism. The people of the
>United States were too strong to permit fascism in the 1930s. There was 
>mass
>working class militancy in a genuine and growing Communist Party, huge
>unionization drives, and other resistance to the capitalists. It must be so
>again today!  We must have a new Communist Party also, to provide an
>unswerving standard of devotion to the working class and a bulwark against
>those who would sell out to the bourgeoisie. Communism, as an ideology, is
>the truest guarantee of firm adherence to the cause of the people. Do not 
>be
>blinded by anti-communism, a ruling class tool to make sure that the people
>can never break the domination of bourgeois thinking. We do not need
>bourgeois ideas.
>      The Democratic Workers' Party must be a united front, whether trade
>unionists, Methodists, Communists, ecologists, or feminists. Let us join
>together in struggle for a true, people's democracy.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
>Cc: <coalitionforjustice@egroups.com>; <njfo@egroups.com>;
><nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>; <nbpcmembers@egroups.com>;
><amirib@...>; <jmodibo@...>
>Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 12:05 PM
>Subject: [onepeoplesproject] politics &'brass'
>
>
> > im me, h-fraud. recognize. tho theres steady mystery about who you claim
>to
> > be...
> >
> > 'evidence' that you pushed 'boycott as revolutionary' in '96 
>clinton/dole
> > race, &claimed contradictions between were 'more apparent than real'? 
>for
> > real?
> >
> > as witness, the 10odd other members of the 'unity&struggle' study group
>from
> > which you arranged my secret expulsion in summer '96, for exposing yr
> > pro-republican schemes.
> >
> > also the '96 'special issue' (fraudulent) u&s 'boycott!' leaflet which 
>you
> > published w/o knowledge of u&s editors modibo & baraka, &according to
>them,
> > in subversive violation of u&s position: 'attack clinton/defeat dole!'
> > (smash schundler/keep mcgreasy in the fire; peoples' war on the right!
>&tc.)
> >
> > 'missive'? its all jigga (todays shakespeare). holla.
> >
> > i do this for my culture
> > let em know how to move
> > in a room full of vultures
> > industrys shady-need to be takin over
> > niggas say you owe us
> > for all the years that you hoed us
> > we can talk but money talks
> > so talk mo bucks
> >
> > im from the streets where the
> > hoods is swallowin me
> > bullets is followin me
> > so much coke that you could run a slalom
> > cops comb the shit top to bottom
> > they say we are prone to violence
> > but its home sweet home
> > where personalities clash
> > and chrome meets chrome
> >
> > chizzill my nizzil
> >
> > nothins personal,
> > clizziff
> >
> > *see how this joker moves to expel me, then tries to engage (bait?) me?
> >
> >
> > >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> > >Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [onepeoplesproject] rules needed
> > >Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 21:38:00 -0400
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
> > >To: <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 10:36 AM
> > >Subject: RE: [onepeoplesproject] rules needed
> > >
> > >
> > > > i dont like fraudulent theories which help bush against the people.
> > > > nothins personal.
> > > >
> > >
> > >All right, Cliff. You start off a letter with "all eyes on hunger-fraud
>the
> > >'judas-goat'." Then you have the brass to say "nothins personal." (sic)
> > >
> > >It reminds me of what Lenin calls "the 'always say no' trick: 'I'm not
>me;
> > >the horse isn't mine; I'm not the driver. We're not Economists; 
>Rabochaya
> > >Mysl doesn't stand for Economism; there is no Economism at all in
>Russia.'
> > >This is a remarkably adroit and 'politicking' trick, which suffers from
>the
> > >slight defect, however, that the publications practicing it are usually
> > >nicknamed: 'Anything you wish, sir.'"
> > >(from "What Is to Be Done?"):
> > >
> > >But never mind. See if you can answer two questions in a principled 
>way.
> > >
> > >1. Your letter that started all this says of me:
> > >"& encouraged splitting the anti-dole vote in '96, saying the
> > >contradictions
> > >between clinton & dole were "illusions", and endorsing a "boycott".
> > >
> > >What evidence do you have that I ever did that? I mean, facts.
> > >
> > >2. Did you write that little missive yourself?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
> >
> > IF YOU CONTINUE TO THINK AS YOU ALWAYS THOUGHT, YOU WILL CONTINUE TO GET
>WHAT YOU ALWAYS GOT!
> >
> > VISIT THE ONE PEOPLE'S PROJECT WEBSITE:
> > http://www.onepeople.mysticalzone.net
> >
> > ALSO VISIT OUR IRC CHANNEL:
> > #oprchat at dalnet
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > onepeoplesproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2015
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-06 00:15:22
Subject:Sept. 18th-Book Presentation
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign supports the following activity and asks 
that all people in solidarity with the decolonization of Puerto Rico, the 
demilitarization of Vieques and the freedom of the 6 Puerto Rican Political 
Prisoners to support this activity.  Please forward this message far and 
wide.

FREE THE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Manhattan 212-927-9065
Bronx 718-601-4751
New Jersey 201-435-3244

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Tuesday, Sept 18
7:30 pm
BOOK PARTY/FORUM
Islands of Resistance
Puerto Rico, Vieques and U.S. Policy
Mario A. Murillo

What is the political future of Puerto Rico? Colony? Fifty-first state of 
the
United States? Sovereign nation? In Islands of Resistance, Mario Murillo
approaches these questions by examining how Puerto Rican politics have been
shaped as much by 100 years of U.S. economic, military, and cultural
domination of the territory, as by the enduring grassroots resistance of the
Puerto Rican people.

Mario Alfonso Murillo teaches media clases at Hofstra University and at New
York University. He is host and producer of the weekly radio program Our
Americas, a joint production of WBAI in New York and the North American
Congress on Latin America (NACLA), which is distributed nationally by
Pacifica Radio. He reports regularly Latin American and Caribbean issues for
a number of publications.
Sliding Scale: $6/$8/$10
�

��� 122 West 27th Street, New York, NY 10001 - info@...

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2016
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-06 10:40:52
Subject:Fwd: Who wrote that Aug. 28 letter, Smith?
Message:



>From: Amirib@...
>To: can_bush@..., jmodibo@..., vivaohio@...,        
>keithjoseph99@...
>Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Who wrote that Aug. 28 letter, Smith?
>Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 18:36:08 EDT
>
>Hah!  D-Hah wrote in Fab-W (the international utopian journal.....no lie, 
>raise it on the net) That we should "stop struggling for a Democracy wie 
>will never get".  So much for 
>"Anti-Marx-Anti-Engels-Anti-Lenin-Anti-Mao-Sophistry".
>        "A Better World"?  What is the Class Nature of that ? "A Be
>tter World" for Whom?
>
>Green Party candidate for NJ Gov sez answer to Bushwacking of National
>Elections is "Instant Run-Offs" ( Aug '01 "GreenGram".) So he has neither 
>an understanding of Civil RIghts Movement struggle Against Run-offs, which 
>are used like Nwk Creeps did to Ras in '98,  to defeat progressive 
>candidates. Neither does he understand that People's Democracy requires  
>PARLIAMENTARY SYSTEM, where smallest sector of voters have representatives 
>in UNICAMERAL
>CONGRESS!
>        Apparently he has not a wink that Run-Offs in a bi cameral
>"constitutional monarchy " which US, with completely unrepresentational 
>bourgeois Watchdog SENATE, can be equated to,.would completely waste so 
>called 3rd parties.
>
>        Revolutionary Democracy must build movement for COMPLETE  Peoples' 
>Democratic reform of Electoral System, not fake "Left" reactionary 
>social-democratic Objective support for  undemocratic imperialist US!
>        Green is Right!


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2017
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-06 12:10:52
Subject:Fwd: [motherlandcollective] Fw: The Youth Communication Video Project
Message:

Please foward this to interested folks


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Lori Barcliff Baptista" <barcliff@...>
Reply-To: motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com
To: "Pam Timson" <bricksandmortar@...>,   "Motherland Collective" 
<motherlandcollective@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [motherlandcollective] Fw: The Youth Communication Video Project
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 13:57:00 -0400

A Creative Opportunity, FYI

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tina Otte" <tinaotte2002@...>
To: <barcliff@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 12:10 PM
Subject: The Youth Communication Video Project


 > Hi Lori,
 > This is the information you requested about our
 > project. We are a non profit organization in
 > Plainfield, N.J. that designs and implements after
 > school programs for youth 4th.-12th. grades. One of
 > our programs, The Youth Communication Program has been
 > funded by Lucent technologies to continue our work on
 > educating the surrounding communities about the
 > diverse culture of Plainfield. We began with a
 > workshop of 20+ that traveled to local elementary
 > schools and worked with students on issues of cultural
 > conflicts through the use of drama and hands on
 > activities. We have been chosen again by Lucent to
 > continue our work and to further our efforts by
 > developing a series of videos that will tour the
 > community and surrounding area. We are looking for a
 > individual to assist us as we move towards this new
 > venture. The position is new and can be developed
 > according to the time and creative direction of the
 > individual. The hours and salary are negotiable.  This
 > person will work directly with myself and students as
 > we explore how diverse teens in the community
 > experience issues of stereotyping, racism, bias, and
 > cultural conflicts. Specific duties would include
 > creative input, script design, editing, shooting, and
 > acting direction. Our original proposal for this video
 > was to create a documentary of personal stories that
 > offer insight to other students experiences, serve as
 > a basis for discourse in group discussions, and offer
 > solutions for positive interaction. We would like to
 > begin as soon as possible. Anyone interested in this
 > project please call Tina Otte at 908-756-3861.
 >
 > __________________________________________________
 > Do You Yahoo!?
 > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!
Messenger
 > http://im.yahoo.com



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
motherlandcollective-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2018
Sender:amirib@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-06 16:55:04
Subject:Re: o what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive...
Message:

ALL:   Next U&S publishes reproduction of Swindler D-Hah's infamy!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2019
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-06 23:53:41
Subject:Re: proposal
Message:

Tamara,

I want to first thank you for posting here what I think is the only 
recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As you can see, 
this board has unfortunately been hijacked by squabblers from every 
progressive group under the sun who are using it for their bickering.

That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your proposal.  At the 
June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to clearly state the 
issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction, in two short 
and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution stating that 
the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-month window, 
were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and Accountability 
Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2) winning the 
mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership also voted at 
that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it would help 
further these goals.

Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of Schundler into the 
NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-focused goals, 
spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more appropriate for 
this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find it 
unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign every couple of 
months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has already resolved 
to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and Accountability 
Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore, for this 
additional reason - the superfluousness of the proposal, I would vote 
it down.




--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@h...> 
wrote:
> Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
> 
> The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming election and 
Smashing 
> Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the Women's Caucus of the 
NBPC should 
> organize and unite with all other women's organizations and head 
the efforts 
> to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has already been in contact with 
Planned 
> Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW  and McGreevey's campaign to 
schedule 
> a NB event in October in  defense of women, public education, and 
unions and 
> to demand voting and working rights for all. At least one child 
care center 
> in NB has fired it's undocumented women teachers because these 
private 
> daycares are now contracted out by the state. This displacement of 
latina 
> community members in an attack on public education has to be 
organized 
> around and McGreevey be forced to take a position on it.
> 
> Smash Schundler!
> Women's Victory 2001!
> 
> Tamara
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2020
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-07 14:23:26
Subject:Fwd: Jesse Jackson Calls For Democracy Now!
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: Pacifica Campaign <pacificacampaign@...>
To: Undisclosed-Recipients:;
Subject: Jesse Jackson Calls For Democracy Now!
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 19:49:50 -0400

Pacifica Campaign Release
September 5, 2001

Friends,

The Rev. Jesse Jackson and actor/activist Danny Glover have lent their
voices to the growing chorus demanding the return of Democracy Now! to
Pacifica's airwaves. Enclosed is a press release from the San
Francisco-based group, Media Alliance.

Add your voices too. If you are in one of the four Pacifica listening
areas not airing Democracy Now!, call your local station and ask them
to air the programs's historic coverage of the UN World Conference on
Racism. Call WBAI at 212-209-2800, KPFK in Los Angeles at 818-985-2711,
KPFT in Houston at 713-526-4000, and WPFW in Washington DC at
202-234-7487 or 202-588-0999. KPFA in Berkeley is airing the show.
Thank them by writing to KPFA at: 1929 ML King Jr Way, Berkeley CA
94704.

Onwards, Pacifica Campaign



*********************************
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
SEPTEMBER 5, 2001

Contact: Andrea Buffa, Media Alliance
Tel: (415) 546-6334

JESSE JACKSON, ACTOR DANNY GLOVER CALL ON PACIFICA MANAGEMENT TO STOP
BLOCKING HISTORIC BROADCASTS OF DEMOCRACY NOW! FROM
UN WORLD CONFERENCE AGAINST RACISM


Reverend Jesse Jackson and actor/civil rights activist Danny Glover
have called on the management of the Pacifica Radio Network to stop
blocking the historic broadcasts of its daily radio show Democracy
Now! from the UN World Conference Against Racism.

"It's unconscionable that Pacifica would not broadcast Democracy Now!
from these very important proceedings," said civil rights activist and
actor Danny Glover, who is attending the conference. "The fact that
Pacifica is not broadcasting Democracy Now! is appalling."

Democracy Now! is the only radio program in the U.S. devoting its
daily hour-long broadcast to live radio coverage from the UN World
Conference Against Racism. The show is broadcasting interviews with
the Reverend Jesse Jackson, Danny Glover, Nobel Peace Prize Winner
Rigoberta Menchu, women activists from India's Dalit, or untouchable,
caste, South African trade union leaders, and NGO activists from
around the world.

"It was not right for the U.S. to walk out, it was unnecessary for
Israel to walk out," said Reverend Jesse Jackson, "and Pacifica as the
access voice for racial and gender equality should not walk out, but
should open up the airwaves and let people, let the Pacifica family
hear these words."

The staff of Democracy Now! was suspended without pay by Pacifica
after leaving the studios of WBAI in New York to broadcast from an
offsite location, following incidents of physical and verbal
harassment against host Amy Goodman on August 10 and 13.

The American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA), which
represents Democracy Now! staff, has said that it is "no longer
satisfied that the WBAI studios are a safe and appropriate working
environment for the Democracy Now! staff."

Since August 14, Pacifica management has refused to broadcast
Democracy Now! and ordered its staff to return to WBAI. The majority
of Pacifica affiliates, however, including Pacifica Station KPFA in
San Francisco, continue to broadcast the show live in defiance of
Pacifica?s national management.

On August 30 a majority of the Pacifica National Board ordered Pacifica
  Executive Director Bessie Wash to immediately resume broadcasting
Democracy Now! and to restore the salaries of its staff. Ms. Wash
continues to defy the Board's directive.

Democracy Now! is a daily national news program on the listener
sponsored Pacifica Radio Network, and normally broadcasts from the
studios of WBAI in New York City. The historically progressive network
has recently been rocked by turmoil surrounding the firing and banning
of longtime producers and staff, many of whom are people of color.

--END--



*********************
The Pacifica Campaign is a grass-roots organization representing listeners 
and staff alike, fighting to preserve Pacifica's 50-year tradition of 
progressive, community-based radio.

Tax deductible contributions to support the work of the Pacifica Campaign 
may be made to our fiscal sponsor, a 501 (c) (3) organization. Make checks 
payable to: Institute for Media Analysis-Pacifica Campaign. Our mailing 
address: The Pacifica Campaign, 51 MacDougal St., #80, New York, NY  10012.


_________________________________________________________________
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Post ID:2021
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-07 14:42:14
Subject:Baraka's Response to SWORD/S&S Polemics
Message:



STUDY IS CRITICAL TO IDEOLOGICAL & POLITICAL LINE
     To call for "reparations for white workers"
As Sword projects in recent documents is to dismiss the Chattel Slavery of
Afro-America, as the same as the general exploitation of white workers. Not
only is this incorrect but devastating to any unity between the masses in 
the
oppressed and oppressor nations.
     White workers are part of the US oppressor nation, even if they are
correctly opposed to its imperialist ruling class, it's exploitation of all
workers and its national oppression of the oppressed nations within its
borders. As well as its international oppression of people all over the
world.  And as Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao have pointed out, It is only the
unity of the workers and peoples of the oppressor nations with oppressed
peoples and nations that they can help end their own exploitation.
       To equate chattel slavery with wage slavery is the normal line of the
bourgeoisie, adding that it is the lack of intelligence, effort, or
qualifications that separates the black and white workers not the fact of
chattel slavery, segregation, discrimination, national oppression, racism,
lack of equal rights, robbery, and the historic robbery and assault by the
state and backward Americans.
          This is the same line that the bourgeoisie uses to justify the 
near
elimination of affirmative action, which is weak to begin with, as well as
welfare, scholarships, police control boards. Together with the constant
superstructural characterization of black people as inferior, ignorant, a
criminal class and simply too backward to uplift themselves since "they have
the same opportunities as the rest of the US citizens'"
     Such a line infers that the rulers asked, 'Ok, Who wants to live in
slums", and black people volunteered, or "Who doesn't want to be educated,"
Afro -America volunteered again, or "Who wants to be murdered by Killer
Cops?"  the misguided wretches held up their hands again.
               This is blunt national chauvinism, and a crass rightist
ideological and political line, very much like the Archie Bunker,
"no-nothing" most -backward sector of the US people!  It is, as Lenin sd, in
Imperialism, The Highest Stage of Imperialism "Opportunism at its finished
level (i.e.), national chauvinism.
     Reparations is a minimum democratic demand aimed at raising the
productive forces of the Afro-American people.  In our own view, reparations
is due to the African American people, but also, since the Afro- American
Nation, located contiguously in the Black- Belt south, is not racial, (See
Stalin on "The National Question" or Lenin, "Statistics and Society", or
"Russians & Negroes", or the 1928-30, Lenin led determinations of the
Communist International), we would demand reparations for all in the Black
Belt affected by Chattel slavery and the enforced backwardness of the 
region.
           For instance, the Anglo- American small farmers in Appalachia and
other parts of the Black Belt, if you look at statistics, have been
historically tied to the chattel slavery and national oppression of the Afro
American people as super exploited residents of the region, in sharp 
contrast
to the rest of the US, educationally, economically socially, politically 
(See
"The Black Nation, Revolutionary Communist League, 1975).
             But this is the Revolutionary Democratic projection of Self
-Determination for the Afro American Nation, in its contiguous black belt
existence, which seeks to begin that self determination with the expression
and intent of achieving much broader democracy than the US oppressor nation.
     Yet no one should be able to deny that ironically, white workers and
farmers, no matter their economic status, have been so socialized by the so
called "skin privilege" (used as a weapon to repress the ex-slaves as well 
as
the native peoples) should also receive reparations as a means of raising 
the
entire productive forces while creating a "New Democratic" unity in the
region.
     The travesty of the national elections and the Bushwackers "Black Ops" 
in
Florida and elsewhere against Black  (Latino and Jewish) voters is a
dismissal of Emancipation Proclamation, the 14th and 15th amendments as well
as the 1965 Voting Rights Act. It is not a theoretical trampling but a
confirmation that the Afro- American people are ruled by Imperialism and how
that national oppression (check Engels) demolishes Peoples Democracy for the
whole of the US people.
*****
     The same belittling of the national question and denigration of
democratic struggle and the need for political unity characterizes Sword 
when
they demand, Objectively, for petty bourgeois, in the main, white, women the
right of self-determination and reparations. In a document delivered by one
of the female members, they say that women are oppressed mainly by Gender!
     This is what the Petty Bourgeois style "Feminism" but it is actually a
self serving class and national Solipsism, ignoring the principal role of
class exploitation, and the triple oppression of Third World because of
class, nationality and sexual oppression or Gender (though bourgeois
sociologists claim Gender is self chosen!)
Again there is neither ideological clarity nor political unity sought by 
this
ignorant or chauvinist line. To say Gender is principal is the call of the<
mainly, white petty bourgeois women who have substituted Abortion struggle
for the Right To Choice, and dismiss the ERA, the actual struggle for Equal
Rights, at the same time.
     Black women were not chattel slaves because of their gender but their
nationality.  Puerto Rican women were not sterilized in masses a few years
ago because of their Gender, but because of their nationality and class.
                In essence, all working class women suffer both class and
gender oppression but for the upwardly mobile white petty bourgeois, since
they feel class and national oppression is some body else's worry, it is 
only
their gender stopping them from rising in Imperialist circles, other wise
their class and national identity taken alone, would ensure them the same
upwardly mobile middle management killer status, as males in their same 
class
(with the same ideological and political narrowness), in the prison house of
nations. And like the Green-Nadirs, they just want to "get in it", no matter
the betrayal of the whole working class and oppressed nationalities.  It is
simply opportunism, and an objective support of the bourgeois ideological 
and
political line, with a very porous "left" cover.
     (In the Next U&S, a reply to SWORD's defense of what U&S called
"Vagueness" in presenting their ideological and political lines.)
                 Amiri Baraka





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Post ID:2022
Sender:JeanRoss55@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-07 15:50:03
Subject:Re: [poprogress] Fwd: Jesse Jackson Calls For Democracy Now!
Message:

Danny Glover is busy doing good. On November 15 he will be speaking on the 
death penalty at the Princeton University campus. Details to come, but save 
the date.

Jean Ross


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2023
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-07 23:18:30
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: F.B.I. Arrests 13 in Connection With Miami Police Corruption
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....

Community Control Over Police!		

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2024
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-07 21:03:59
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: proposal
Message:

anti-woman.


>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: proposal
>Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 03:53:41 -0000
>
>Tamara,
>
>I want to first thank you for posting here what I think is the only
>recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As you can see,
>this board has unfortunately been hijacked by squabblers from every
>progressive group under the sun who are using it for their bickering.
>
>That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your proposal.  At the
>June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to clearly state the
>issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction, in two short
>and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution stating that
>the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-month window,
>were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and Accountability
>Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2) winning the
>mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership also voted at
>that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it would help
>further these goals.
>
>Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of Schundler into the
>NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-focused goals,
>spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more appropriate for
>this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find it
>unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign every couple of
>months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has already resolved
>to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and Accountability
>Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore, for this
>additional reason - the superfluousness of the proposal, I would vote
>it down.
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@h...>
>wrote:
> > Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
> >
> > The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming election and
>Smashing
> > Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the Women's Caucus of the
>NBPC should
> > organize and unite with all other women's organizations and head
>the efforts
> > to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has already been in contact with
>Planned
> > Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW  and McGreevey's campaign to
>schedule
> > a NB event in October in  defense of women, public education, and
>unions and
> > to demand voting and working rights for all. At least one child
>care center
> > in NB has fired it's undocumented women teachers because these
>private
> > daycares are now contracted out by the state. This displacement of
>latina
> > community members in an attack on public education has to be
>organized
> > around and McGreevey be forced to take a position on it.
> >
> > Smash Schundler!
> > Women's Victory 2001!
> >
> > Tamara
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2025
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-07 22:08:53
Subject:victory to women! self-determination, reparations, &tc.
Message:

Keeping the Thing Going While Things Are Stirring

A speech delivered by Sojourner Truth in 1867

My friends, I am rejoiced that you are glad, but I don't know how you will 
feel when I get through. I come from another field - the country of the 
slave. They
have got their liberty - so much good luck to have slavery partly destroyed; 
not entirely. I want it root and branch destroyed. Then we will all be free 
indeed.
I feel that if I have to answer for the deeds done in my body just as much 
as a man, I have a right to have just as much as a man. There is a great 
stir about
colored men getting their rights, but not a word about the colored women; 
and if colored men get their rights, and not colored women theirs, you see 
the
colored men will be masters over the women, and it will be just as bad as it 
was before. So I am for keeping the thing going while things are stirring; 
because
if we wait till it is still, it will take a great while to get it going 
again. White women are a great deal smarter, and know more than colored 
women, while
colored women do not know scarcely anything. They go out washing, which is 
about as high as a colored woman gets, and their men go about idle, 
strutting
up and down; and take it all, and then scold because there is no food. I 
want you consider on that, chil'n. I call you chil'n; you are somebody's 
chil'n, and I
am old enough to be mother of all that is here. I want women to have their 
rights. In the courts women have no right, no voice; nobody speaks for them. 
I
wish woman to have her voice there among the pettifoggers. If it is not a 
fit place for women, it is unfit for men to be there.

I am above eighty years old; it is about time for me to be going. I have 
been forty years a slave and forty years free and would be here forty years 
more to
have equal rights for all. I suppose I am kept here because something 
remains for me to do; I suppose I am yet to help to break the chain. I have 
done a great
deal of work; as much as a man, but did not get so much pay. I used to work 
in the field and bind grain, keeping up with the cradler; but men doing no 
more,
got twice as much pay; so with the German women. They work in the field and 
do as much work, but do not get the pay. We do as much, we eat as much,
we want as much. I suppose I am about the only colored woman that goes about 
to speak for the rights of colored women. I want to keep the thing stirring,
now that the ice is cracked. What we want is a little money. You men know 
that you get as much again as women when you write, or for what you do. When
we get our rights we shall not have to come to you for money, for then we 
shall have money enough in our own pockets; and may be you will ask us for
money. But help us now until we get it. It is a good consolation to know 
that when we have got this battle once fought we shall not be coming to you 
any
more. You have been having our rights so long, that you think, like a 
slave-holder, that you own us. I know that is hard for one who has held the 
reins for so
long to give up; it cuts like a knife. It will feel all the better when it 
closes up again. I have been in Washington about three years, seeing about 
these colored
people. Now colored men have the right to vote. There ought to be equal 
rights now more than ever, since colored people have got their freedom. I am 
going
to talk several times while I am here; so now I will do a little singing. I 
have not heard any singing since I came here.



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Post ID:2026
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-08 15:37:28
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] Fwd: [BRC-NEWS] Walkout Galvanizes U.S. NGO Delegation
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: makemba@...
Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, TINALINDOR@..., blackjack76@...,     
    barbara.white@..., Meratj@..., Coolretta@...
Subject: [poprogress] Fwd: [BRC-NEWS] Walkout Galvanizes U.S. NGO Delegation
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 13:01:00 EDT






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Post ID:2027
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-08 15:38:06
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] Fwd: [BRC-NEWS] Walkout Galvanizes U.S. NGO Delegation
Message:



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Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
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    barbara.white@..., Meratj@..., Coolretta@...
Subject: [poprogress] Fwd: [BRC-NEWS] Walkout Galvanizes U.S. NGO Delegation
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 13:01:00 EDT



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From :
Eric Mann <ericmann@...>

To :
brc-news@...

Subject :
[BRC-NEWS] Walkout Galvanizes U.S. NGO Delegation

Date :
Sat, 8 Sep 2001 05:41:22 -0400 (EDT)

September 6, 2001

U.S. Walkout Galvanizes U.S. NGO Delegation

By Eric Mann <ericmann@...>

It was the eve of Labor Day and 400 U.S. delegates to the
now-concluded NGO Forum filed into the large lecture hall at
UNISA (University of South Africa at Durban). We had come,
ostensibly, to hear a report to the Non-Governmental
Organizations from the shell of the U.S. delegation to the
UN Conference. As we entered the room, all hell broke loose.
Rumors spread that the U.S. delegation had no intention to
report to us. Wade Henderson, from the National Leadership
Conference on Civil Rights, announced that last minute
negotiations with the U.S had broken down and that it was
almost inevitable that the U.S. governmental delegation
would walk out.

Almost immediately a group of 200 U.S. NGO delegates worked
to transform itself into a viable, functional "ad hoc" force
to protest U.S. policies at the conference. Many of the
delegates did not know each other at all, many had political
disagreements, and many had prior histories of unity and
antagonism. Yet we worked successfully in a multiracial,
majority-black group led by black women.

Within 15 minutes we had formed an action coalition. In
order to move effectively, we worked to clarify political
line. Earlier in the conference, more moderate U.S. forces
had focused primarily on the question of the attendance of
the U.S. delegation. "Where is the U.S.?" they had asked,
expressing the view that if the U.S. did not attend, the
conference would be compromised. Yet by the end of a week of
haggling over resolutions in the NGO Forum, there was now
far greater unity of anger against the U.S. government. The
U.S., along with other Western countries, had tried to
intimidate NGO delegates into meaningless, toothless
declarations against racism in general with no mention of
specific countries or specific atrocities or specific
policies of redress and reparations. There was tremendous
anger at the way the U.S. had approached the entire
conference, beginning with its early use of threats as a way
to bully the many other countries for whom the U.N. is a
critical vehicle. One Black woman asserted, "The U.S.
withdrawal is the first principled thing that the U.S. has
done. There is a profound conflict of interest in that the
U.S. is the main source of world racism. How can it come and
try to impose its will on a world conference against
racism?"

There was widespread agreement that the issue of U.S.
reparations to the Third World for the transatlantic slave
trade had to be the main focus of our demands. Yet, as in
both conferences, the issue of Palestine took center stage
for debate. How should we challenge the U.S., in particular,
for its use of Israel as a foil to withdraw participation?

Several delegates argued that while they were in support of
the Palestinian cause, they felt it was deflecting focus
away from the demands for Black reparations. This led to a
spirited and somewhat heated debate. Sandra Jaribu Hill, an
attorney from Mississippi, argued that she believed the
Palestinian issue was not a "diversion" but a central focus
in the world struggle against racism and imperialism. She
raised the question, "How could blacks in the U.S. isolate
themselves from such a front-line struggle in the world,
especially one that is under tremendous attack and is in so
much need of worldwide support?" Others expressed concern
that there was even a tendency in the reparations movement
to focus too much on blacks within the U.S. and not seek
enough solidarity with the nations of Africa, the Caribbean,
and Latin America.

***

Anyone who read my earlier commentary knows that I left the
U.S. with the intent to demonstrate that there are Jews in
the U.S. who care deeply about Palestinian rights, as well
as whites in the U.S. who want to challenge the racist
policies of our government -- as part of a strategy to help
coalesce the left, anti-imperialist forces against racism.
This is the sentiment I chose to express to the members of
our ad-hoc group:

"As a Jew, I am very upset about the provocative role that
the U.S. and Israel are playing at the conference in trying
to make it seem like "anti-Semitism," rather than principled
criticisms of U.S. and Israeli policy. I am of course
outraged by anti-Semitism, but my focus is on the German
holocaust and U.S. complicity with it. Like many Jews who
joined the civil rights movement and the black liberation
movement, I was moved into action by my experience of
anti-Semitism from Christian whites, not blacks. While of
course there is anti-Semitism and there are even
anti-Semites in all movements, including the Palestinian
movement, the Palestinian movement itself is not
anti-Semitic. It is a movement for national liberation. The
Israelis want to leave the conference because they do not
want to subject their policies to an international debate --
53 years of occupation of Palestinian lands, the murder of
Palestinian civilians in violation of the Nuremberg
statutes, the denial of a viable homeland to the Palestinian
people, and now the new tactic of targeted missile
assassinations of Palestinian leaders. In fact, the U.S., as
an anti-Semitic country, does not give a damn about Jews or
for that matter about Israel; rather the U.S. government is
using Israel as its stalking horse in the Middle East -- and
at this conference. Moreover, the Israeli government and
Zionism itself are not the same as Jews, does not speak for
Jews, but rather represent a specific political tendency
within the Jews of the world. As we all must make choices in
life, I stand with the Palestinians."

After further discussion and debate, a motion to highlight
both the struggles of the Palestinians and the slave trade
was passed by perhaps 90% of the 200 people still remaining.

Several people proposed that we attempt to seat ourselves as
the "real" US delegation, in the spirit of the Mississippi
Freedom Democratic Party challenge of 1964. But others
observed that in fact we had no legitimacy to represent U.S.
NGOs, let alone any social movements in the U.S.; we had the
right and obligation to protest, but to be careful about who
we did and did not represent. Still, the idea in microcosm
was important. What if at some time in the future, a more
unified U.S. anti-racist movement was able to agree upon a
united front of delegates representing important
constituencies and movements in the U.S.? This discussion
shed light on the present state of disunity and
disorganization of the movement and challenged us to
continue this work at home.

We agreed upon a group of spokespeople that included Adjoa
Aiyetoro, a well-known and respected activist in the
reparations movement, as well as Linda Roots, Thema Bryant,
Juana-Majel Dixon, Youmna Chlala, Ai-Jen-Poo and myself. It
was time to stop talking and start marching. We took to the
streets with the plan to end in a rally in front of the
International Convention Center. Others joined us as we
chanted, "Stop US Racism -- All Over the World" and "The
People, United, Will Never Be Defeated." Many Third World
delegates, sitting or standing along the streets, cheered us
onward -- evidently happy to see a U.S. delegation, any
delegation, taking on the U.S. government. The militancy and
politics of the demonstration attracted international media
coverage as we had hoped -- with CNN running feed that was
seen throughout South Africa and at least as far as Los
Angeles.

We reconvened the next morning for a rally that took on a
life of its own, with many people speaking to the press. We
had a movement of 200 spokespeople, talking into microphones
and cameras. Indigenous people took center stage. Meanwhile
that morning, the United States UN delegation officially
withdrew from the conference, allegedly in protest against
"anti-Israeli" statements. Some in the bourgeois press
claimed that the Palestinians and Arabs had "hijacked" the
conference by not compromising with the "reasonable"
European and Israeli powers. Others commented that the U.S.
walkout had fatally damaged the chance for a "unity of
action" on world racism, essentially sinking all hopes for a
successful outcome for the conference. One more thoughtful
South African newspaper did tell it like it is, that in fact
the U.S. used the struggle over Israeli policy as a pretext
to leave the conference because it feared the debate about
the transatlantic slave trade, the culpability of the U.S.
and Europe in "crimes against humanity," and the inevitable
and logical programmatic response of massive reparations to
the nations of Africa and black people inside the U.S.

Let me be clear that our press rally represented only one
tendency within the broader U.S. NGO arena -- a "united
front," I would say, between the black nationalist left in
its various ideological reflections and the anti-racist,
anti-imperialist, socialist left (in this instance, also
majority black). Still, given the tremendous lack of unity
in the U.S., this group managed to find unity of line and
action, agree upon spokespeople, and pull off a spontaneous
but effective rally within hours. In a small but significant
way, the U.S. delegates with whom I worked offered a
counter-hegemonic analysis, conveying successfully to people
in the U.S. and in the UN conference itself that there was
another voice in the United States. In fact, for a day and a
half there was widespread outrage throughout all the U.S.
NGOs taking many forms, from virtually every U.S. NGO
delegate trying to disassociate from the government's
actions to more boldness on the part of many forces in the
upcoming UN negotiations.

By noon the anger and energy had dissipated, and we had to
reintegrate ourselves into the deadly technicalities of the
UN conference or find other things to do. I chose to attend
two workshops, which were in fact anything but dull. One
addressed the problems of indigenous women, with ten amazing
speakers each expressing outrage and first-hand organizing
stories of resistance by the more than 400 million
indigenous women throughout the world -- from Hawaii,
Colombia, Nigeria, Sudan. A second workshop of 300 people
led by African scholars and activists focused in detail on
the transatlantic slave trade. In this workshop I heard the
apparent news that as a result of organizing pressure,
France would be the first Western power to agree on the
terms "crimes against humanity" and acknowledge its role in
the transatlantic slave trade.

When I get home I will reflect on my time in Durban and
write a more comprehensive overview of the experience; it is
just too much to comprehend at this time. I want to put
together the interviews I have done and seek out a few other
participants to pursue my thinking. Still, two preliminary
conclusions of some optimism prevail.

First, I think it is useful to see the U.S. withdrawal as a
sign of weakness not strength. The countries of the world
put the question on the table -- What is racism? And the
U.S. is by definition put on the defensive. The U.S. walked
into South Africa not to a U.S. Security Council meeting
that it could control, but to a conference against racism.
The U.S. cannot lead a world-wide anti-racist,
anti-imperialist movement. This was a Third World conference
filled with Third World people. Even the U.S. NGO
delegations were people of color. Rather, the U.S. is and
has been the target of much of the work here. While country
after country talked about stopping "unchallenged hegemony,"
U.S. bullying didn't work. It was infuriating to the U.S.,
as one delegate told me, to have the delegation hold up its
card to speak and be preempted by Gambia or Malaysia or
Brazil. "Don't you know who we are?" the U.S. conveys, and
the response time and again was "We certainly do!" The U.S.
decision to send a low-level delegation was given the "low
level" treatment it deserved. The two things the U.S. didn't
want the UN to do, it did: support Palestine and interrogate
the Transatlantic slave trade. Since the basis of hegemony
is domination by consent, U.S. hegemony suffered a blow.
While U.S. imperialism's economic and military strength is
unchallenged, in this battle it was defeated politically and
diplomatically by the Third World.

Second, you have to have been here to see the profound role
that the Cubans played. Fidel Castro arrived in Durban with
the reminder that Africa is the ancestral motherland of most
of the 11 million people of Cuba. Castro swept through the
city, speaking before the ANC, the UN Conference, and,
unexpectedly, before the final session of the NGO Forum!
There can be no doubt that Castro's statement at the UN
conference has galvanized a weak and often dispirited Third
World. Some delegates may be comprador bourgeoisie, or
Western identified, or complete sell outs. Some may be
moderates, others revolutionaries. But they are all
Africans, Asians, and Latin Americans. In their hearts, and
souls, even if they don't have the courage, they want to see
the U.S. get its ass kicked. To see Fidel Castro walk into
the convention with such confidence and the ability to speak
his own mind -- the leader of a tiny nation-state constantly
in grave danger of U.S. invasion -- is a world event hard to
comprehend. And in that brief moment, the power of an
anti-imperialist socialism gives Fidel -- not the U.S. --
the real title of "leader of the free world."

I leave you with an excerpt from Fidel's WCAR speech:

"Nobody has the right to sabotage this conference which, in
some way, is attempting to alleviate the terrible suffering
and enormous injustice that these deeds have signified and
still signify for the overwhelming majority of humanity. Far
less does anybody have the right to impose conditions, and
demand that the issue of historical responsibility and just
reparations are not even mentioned, or the way in which we
decide to qualify the horrific genocide at this very minute
being committed against our sister nation of Palestine
(applause) on the part of extreme-right leaders who, in
alliance with the hegemonic superpower, are currently acting
in the name of another people which, over close to 2000
years, was the victim of the greatest persecution,
discrimination and injustice committed in history."
(Applause)

"When Cuba talks of compensation and supports this idea as
an ineludible moral duty to the victims of racism, it has an
important precedent in the compensation being received by
the descendents of those very Jewish peoples who, right in
the heart of Europe, suffered an odious and brutal racist
holocaust. However, it is not with the intent of attempting
the impossible search for direct family members or concrete
countries of origin of the victims in terms of deeds that
occurred over centuries. The real and irrefutable fact is
that tens of millions of Africans were captured, sold like
merchandise and dispatched to the other side of the Atlantic
to work as slaves, and that 70 million native Indians died
in the western hemisphere as a consequence of European
conquest and colonization." (Applause)

"The inhuman exploitation to which people of the three
continents, including Asia, were subjected, has affected the
destiny and present-day life of over 4.5 billion persons
inhabiting the Third World nations, and whose indices of
poverty, unemployment, infant mortality, life prospects and
other disasters impossible to enumerate in a brief speech,
are both shocking and horrifying. These are the current
victims of that barbarity that lasted for centuries, and the
unmistakable creditors of reparations for the horrendous
crimes committed against their ancestors and peoples."
(Applause)


For full text of Fidel Castro's WCAR speech see the
following sites:

Spanish language
http://www.cubagov.cu/marquesina/sep31discurso.htm

English language translation
http://www.granma.cu/ingles/septiem1/36compen-i.html


Eric Mann has been an anti-racist, civil rights,
environmental, and labor organizer for 35 years. He is a
veteran of the Congress of Racial Equality, Students for a
Democratic Society, and spent ten years as a United Auto
Workers assembly line worker. He is presently a member of
the Planning Committee of the L.A. Bus Riders Union and the
director of the Labor/Community Strategy Center. The views
expressed in this article are his own.

Copyright (c) 2001 Eric Mann. All Rights Reserved.


[IMPORTANT NOTE: The views and opinions expressed on this
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2028
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-08 15:54:26
Subject:FIDEL CASTRO: SPEECH to WORLD RACISM CONFERENCE
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Tracey Luszcz" <traceyx@...>
To: <vivaohio@...>, <krisbas@...>, <lknesta@...>, 
<traceyx@...>
Subject: INGLES GRANMA INTERNACIONAL DIGITAL, CUBA.htm
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 10:58:51 -0400

INGLES GRANMA INTERNACIONAL DIGITAL, CUBA


                         September 4, 2001
                         Compensation is a moral duty to the victims of 
racism

                         SPEECH GIVEN BY FIDEL CASTRO RUZ, FIRST SECRETARY 
OF THE CENTRAL COMMITTEE OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY OF CUBA AND PRESIDENT OF THE 
COUNCILS OF STATE AND MINISTERS, AT THE PLENARY SESSION OF THE WORLD 
CONFERENCE AGAINST RACISM, RACIAL DISCRIMINATION, XENOPHOBIA AND RELATED 
FORMS OF INTOLERANCE, DURBAN, SOUTH AFRICA, SEPTEMBER 1, 2001, �YEAR OF THE 
VICTORIOUS REVOLUTION IN THE NEW MILLENNIUM.�

                         (Typescript version of the Council of State)

                         Your Excellencies;

                         Delegates and invited guests:

                         RACISM, racial discrimination and xenophobia 
constitute a social, cultural and political phenomenon, not a natural human 
instinct: they are the direct offspring of wars, military conquest, 
enslavement and the individual or collective exploitation of the weakest by 
the most powerful throughout the length of the history of human societies.

                         Nobody has the right to sabotage this conference 
which, in some way, is attempting to alleviate the terrible suffering and 
enormous injustice that these deeds have signified and still signify for the 
overwhelming majority of humanity. Far less does anybody have the right to 
impose conditions, and demand that the issue of historical responsibility 
and just reparations are not even mentioned, or the way in which we decide 
to qualify the horrific genocide at this very minute being committed against 
our sister nation of Palestine (Applause) on the part of extreme-right 
leaders who, in alliance with the hegemonic superpower, are currently acting 
in the name of another people which, over close to 2000 years, was the 
victim of the greatest persecution, discrimination and injustice committed 
in history.

                         When Cuba talks of compensation and supports this 
idea as an ineludible moral duty to the victims of racism, it has an 
important precedent in the compensation being received by the descendents of 
those very Jewish peoples who, right in the heart of Europe, suffered an 
odious and brutal racist holocaust, rather than attempting the impossible 
search for direct family members or concrete countries of origin of the 
victims in terms of deeds that occurred over centuries. The real and 
irrefutable fact is that tens of millions of Africans were captured, sold 
like merchandise and dispatched to the other side of the Atlantic to work as 
slaves, and that 70 million native Indians died in the western hemisphere as 
a consequence of European conquest and colonization. (Applause)

                         The inhuman exploitation to which people of the 
three continents, including Asia, were subjected, has affected the destiny 
and present-day life of over 4.5 billion persons inhabiting the Third World 
nations, and whose indices of poverty, unemployment, infant mortality, life 
prospects and other disasters impossible to enumerate in a brief speech, are 
both shocking and horrifying. These are the current victims of that 
barbarity that lasted for centuries, and the unmistakable creditors of 
reparations for the horrendous crimes committed against their ancestors and 
peoples. (Applause)

                         Brutal exploitation did not terminate when many 
countries gained their independence, nor even after the formal abolition of 
slavery. From the early years of independence, the principal ideologists of 
the United States constituted by the 13 colonies that freed themselves from 
British dominion at the end of the 18th century created concepts and 
strategies unquestionably expansionist in nature. By virtue of those ideas, 
in their advance towards the West the former white colonists of European 
origin seized land occupied for thousands of years by its indigenous Indian 
inhabitants land and exterminated millions of them. They did not halt at the 
borders of lands that were formerly Spanish possessions, and Mexico, a Latin 
American country that attained its independence in 1821, was likewise 
stripped of millions of square kilometers and incalculable natural 
resources. The abominable and inhumane slavery system was maintained in the 
increasingly powerful and expansive nation that emerged in North America for 
nearly one hundred years after the famous 1776 Declaration of Independence, 
which proclaimed that all men are born free and equal.

                         After the merely formal abolition of slavery, for a 
further century African Americans were subjected to the cruelest racial 
discrimination, many of whose traits and consequences have continued in 
place for virtually four decades and to date, after the heroic battles and 
the advances gained in the �60s, which cost the lives of Martin Luther King, 
Malcolm X and other outstanding fighters. (Applause) For purely racist 
reasons, the worst and the longest prison sentences fall to the lot of 
African Americans, and within U.S. society it is they who suffer the 
greatest poverty and the worst living conditions (Applause). Equally 
terrible and even worse are the contempt for and discrimination against what 
remains of the indigenous populations that occupied a large part of current 
U.S. territory.

                         One does not have to mention data on the economic 
and social state of Africa. Entire countries and even complete regions of 
Sub-Saharan Africa are at risk of disappearing due to an extremely complex 
combination of economic backwardness, extreme poverty and serious 
diseases�old and new�which are scourging those nations. The situation in a 
large number of Asian countries is no less tragic. Add to that fabulous and 
irrecoverable debts, unequal terms of trade, ruinous prices for their basic 
products, a demographic explosion, neoliberal globalization and climatic 
changes, with their consequence of prolonged drought alternating with 
increasingly dramatic rains and flooding. It can be mathematically 
demonstrated that such a situation is unsustainable. (Applause)

                         The developed countries and their consumer 
societies, currently responsible for the accelerated and virtually 
unstoppable destruction of the environment, have been the largest 
beneficiaries of the conquest, enslavement, merciless exploitation and 
extermination of hundreds of millions of the sons and daughters of the 
peoples now constituting the Third World, for the economic order imposed on 
humanity after two monstrous and destructive wars for the re-division of the 
world and its markets, for the privileges conceded to the United States and 
its allies at Bretton Woods, for the International Monetary Fund and the 
international financial institutions created exclusively by them and for 
them. (Applause)

                         This rich and spendthrift world possesses the 
technical and financial resources to pay off its debt to humanity. The 
hegemonic superpower moreover, should pay off the particular debt it has 
with African Americans, with the American Indians herded into the 
reservations, and to tens of millions of Latin American, Caribbean 
immigrants and those from other poor countries, whether of Asian, African or 
mixed-racial origin, victims of discrimination and contempt.

                         The time has equally come to put an end to the 
dramatic situation of the indigenous communities in the rest of our 
hemisphere. Their awakening, their own struggle and universal 
acknowledgement of the monstrous crime committed against them make it 
impossible to postpone.

                         The funds needed to save the world from tragedy 
exist.

                         Finally call a complete halt to the arms race and 
weapons trading, which only generate desolation and death. (Applause)

                         Redirect to development the major part of the 
trillions of dollars annually spent on commercial publicity, the forger of 
consumer illusions and habits that are impossible to achieve, together with 
the poison that is destroying national identities and cultures.

                         Fulfil the promised hand over of the modest 0.7% of 
your Gross Domestic Product as aid to development.

                         Establish in a reasonable and effective form the 
taxation system on speculative operations proposed by Nobel Prize Winner 
James Tobin (Applause), which currently amount to trillions of dollars per 
day; and the United Nations, which cannot continue depending on miserable, 
insufficient monies, late donations and charity; make available one trillion 
dollars to save and develop the world. Did you hear that properly? One 
trillion dollars per year. There are more than a few of us in the world who 
know had to add, subtract, multiply and divide. I am not exaggerating. Given 
the gravity and urgency of current problems that are even threatening the 
life of our species on the planet, that is what is really needed before it 
is too late.

                         Put an immediate end the genocide of the 
Palestinian people (Applause) that is taking place before the shocked eyes 
of the world. Protect the elemental right to life of its citizens, its youth 
and its children. Respect its right to independence and peace, and you will 
have nothing to fear from UN documents.

                         I am well aware that, in the search to alleviate 
the terrible situation in which their countries find themselves, many 
African friends and those from other regions have suggested using the 
necessary prudence to obtain something from this conference. I understand 
them but I cannot renounce my conviction that the more frankly the truth is 
told, the greater the possibility of being heard and respected. (Applause) 
Centuries of deception are more than enough.

                         I have only three brief questions based on a truth 
that nobody can disregard.

                         The developed and rich capitalist countries are 
currently participating in the imperialist system and economic order imposed 
on the world, which is based on the philosophy of egotism and brutal 
competition among people, nations and blocs, which is completely removed 
from any sentiment of solidarity and international cooperation. They live 
within a deceitful, irresponsible and hallucinatory atmosphere of the 
consumer society. However sincere blind faith in such a system and the 
convictions of their most serious statesmen might be, are they capable of 
comprehending the gravity of the present-day world, ruled in its incoherent 
and unequal development by blind laws, the colossal superpower and the 
interest of the transnational companies, which are steadily growing larger, 
more uncontrollable and more independent? (Applause) Can they comprehend the 
approaching universal chaos and rebellion? Although they might wish to, can 
they put an end to racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and other 
related forms of intolerance, which are precisely all the others?

                         From my point of view, we are facing a major 
economic, social and political crisis of a global nature. Let us be aware of 
these realities. Alternatives will arise. History has demonstrated that 
great solutions have only emerged from great crisis. The right of the 
peoples to life and justice will inevitably impose itself.

                         I believe in the mobilization and struggle of the 
peoples! (Applause) I believe in just ideas! I believe in the truth! I 
believe in humanity!

                         Thank you.

                         (Ovation)




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2029
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-08 16:09:15
Subject:Waxing DLJ,Joe, Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, ...
Message:

DLJ- Granted the Greens are better organized...so are the Republicans, it 
doesn't make them a better or worse option or address the issues at hand.  
The UF we specifically refer to at U&S is, yes, one aimed at the most 
reactionary & therefore dangerous rep.s of imperialism.  It the effort if 
weakened when these people are allowed into positions of power.  (examples, 
infinitum) This is one contention.  Also, we talk of building a united front 
as the BASIS for an independant party--we see the Greens working with some 
groups like POP, etc, etc at the street level. What we don't see is the 
alternative party being made up of all these groups, rather, the Greens 
claiming to represent them, and thus when it comes to electoral politics the 
UF effort breaks down and they 'go-it-alone."  Importantly, is that the 
whole process of developing the third party movement through UF/Coalition 
building is also a process of organizing & empowering the people to do for 
themselves, that they are equal participants in the process, and the 
movement/party will therefor be theirs.  Rather, the Greens idea is to do 
FOR the people(& not just the greens, I can remember not too long ago 
NJFO/CU/NBPC etc.-so it's a CLASS question)Which leads to backwards notions 
that "The People are the problem, They don't get it" Classic quote from 
Greens.  SO it's not that I want them doing it my way or no way.  That's 
silly.  What it is is We need to do it together, from the street level to 
the electoral level, and as the last election showed, NO ONE GROUP (esp. one 
made up of primarily white, mid-class) can claim to represent all others.  
-Easy, Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: <dlj@...>
Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [poprogress] Waxing Joe, Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, ...
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 09:41:07 -0400

Matt people do form united fronts all the time and get things done. The
problem I see is that you want them to form that united front along your
lines, and if no one does, you think there is a problem with organization.
That's not right. The Greens are better organized than you. They have been
at this for years. Hell, the Green Party didn't even start in the US it is
an international thing. Things fall apart when our group of 20 wants to have
a study hall the same time another is taking place. Hello?

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 5:10 AM
To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [poprogress] Waxing Joe, Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, ...


Joe- This is a straw-man premise- We have said repeatedly that it is the
"progressive politics" aspect of, not only the Greens (where POP work is a
good model), but of any and all on the left that we stress should form a
united front/left-bloc.  It is indeed the go-it-alone (not progressive)
nature of the Green Party that caused it NOT TO ENDORSE A LEFT_BLOC/UF &
rather helped swing the national vote to Bush, while the 'masses' sniffed
the danger in Nader and stayed away (which Howard has characterized as "The
people are the problem"--a typical P.B./Green refrain, usually followed by
"It's good that Bush is in office, because deeper oppression will cause the
people to act")  --Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: jfortun845@...
Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [poprogress] Re: [nbpc] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred,
Matthew, Howard, ...
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:33:23 EDT

In a message dated 8/28/01 5:06:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
vivaohio@... writes:


  > very opportunism that is behind the "We're it!"/Go-it-alone syndrome 
that
is
  >

Actually, nothing could be further from the truth. We have said many times
that we are "one part of" a progressive movement. Our work with POP and
others is an example of putting this theory into practice. Just because we
won't liquidate our progressive politics into the Democratic Party, it does
not follow that we "go-it-alone."

Joe


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2030
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-09 08:41:34
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Waxing DLJ,Joe, Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, ...
Message:

Green Party candidate for NJ Gov sez answer to Bushwacking of National 
Elections is "Instant Run-Offs" ( Aug '01 "GreenGram".) So he has neither an 
understanding of Civil RIghts Movement struggle Against Run-offs, which are 
used like Nwk Creeps did to Ras (Baraka) in '98,  to defeat progressive 
candidates.  Neither does he understand that People's Democracy requires  
PARLIAMENTARY SYSTEM, where smallest sector of voters have representatives 
in UNICAMERAL CONGRESS!     Apparently he has not a wink that Run-Offs in a 
bi cameral �constitutional monarchy " which US, with completely 
unrepresentational bourgeois Watchdog SENATE, can be equated to,.would 
completely waste so called 3rd parties.

Revolutionary Democracy must build movement for COMPLETE  Peoples'  
Democratic reform of Electoral System, not fake "Left" reactionary 
social-democratic Objective support for  undemocratic imperialist US! - 
Green is Right! -Amiri Baraka(excerpt from joe)


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, 
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Waxing DLJ,Joe, Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, ...
>Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 20:09:15
>
>DLJ- Granted the Greens are better organized...so are the Republicans, it
>doesn't make them a better or worse option or address the issues at hand.
>The UF we specifically refer to at U&S is, yes, one aimed at the most
>reactionary & therefore dangerous rep.s of imperialism.  It the effort if
>weakened when these people are allowed into positions of power.  (examples,
>infinitum) This is one contention.  Also, we talk of building a united 
>front
>as the BASIS for an independant party--we see the Greens working with some
>groups like POP, etc, etc at the street level. What we don't see is the
>alternative party being made up of all these groups, rather, the Greens
>claiming to represent them, and thus when it comes to electoral politics 
>the
>UF effort breaks down and they 'go-it-alone."  Importantly, is that the
>whole process of developing the third party movement through UF/Coalition
>building is also a process of organizing & empowering the people to do for
>themselves, that they are equal participants in the process, and the
>movement/party will therefor be theirs.  Rather, the Greens idea is to do
>FOR the people(& not just the greens, I can remember not too long ago
>NJFO/CU/NBPC etc.-so it's a CLASS question)Which leads to backwards notions
>that "The People are the problem, They don't get it" Classic quote from
>Greens.  SO it's not that I want them doing it my way or no way.  That's
>silly.  What it is is We need to do it together, from the street level to
>the electoral level, and as the last election showed, NO ONE GROUP (esp. 
>one
>made up of primarily white, mid-class) can claim to represent all others.
>-Easy, Matt
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: <dlj@...>
>Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [poprogress] Waxing Joe, Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, ...
>Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 09:41:07 -0400
>
>Matt people do form united fronts all the time and get things done. The
>problem I see is that you want them to form that united front along your
>lines, and if no one does, you think there is a problem with organization.
>That's not right. The Greens are better organized than you. They have been
>at this for years. Hell, the Green Party didn't even start in the US it is
>an international thing. Things fall apart when our group of 20 wants to 
>have
>a study hall the same time another is taking place. Hello?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
>Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 5:10 AM
>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [poprogress] Waxing Joe, Wroth, Fred, Matthew, Howard, ...
>
>
>Joe- This is a straw-man premise- We have said repeatedly that it is the
>"progressive politics" aspect of, not only the Greens (where POP work is a
>good model), but of any and all on the left that we stress should form a
>united front/left-bloc.  It is indeed the go-it-alone (not progressive)
>nature of the Green Party that caused it NOT TO ENDORSE A LEFT_BLOC/UF &
>rather helped swing the national vote to Bush, while the 'masses' sniffed
>the danger in Nader and stayed away (which Howard has characterized as "The
>people are the problem"--a typical P.B./Green refrain, usually followed by
>"It's good that Bush is in office, because deeper oppression will cause the
>people to act")  --Matt
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: jfortun845@...
>Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [poprogress] Re: [nbpc] Rothenberg, Waxing Wroth, Fred,
>Matthew, Howard, ...
>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:33:23 EDT
>
>In a message dated 8/28/01 5:06:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>vivaohio@... writes:
>
>
>   > very opportunism that is behind the "We're it!"/Go-it-alone syndrome
>that
>is
>   >
>
>Actually, nothing could be further from the truth. We have said many times
>that we are "one part of" a progressive movement. Our work with POP and
>others is an example of putting this theory into practice. Just because we
>won't liquidate our progressive politics into the Democratic Party, it does
>not follow that we "go-it-alone."
>
>Joe
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2031
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-10 23:32:32
Subject:Possible NEW Puerto Rican Political Prisoner!!
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign urges the greater movement at large to read 
and forward this email message far and wide.  The repressive acts that the 
Puerto Rican Colonial government has engaged against activists in Puerto 
Rico has reached a new milestone.  It is important that people become aware 
of this repression and become in solidarity with the Vieques struggle and 
the struggle to free all of our Political Prisoners!!

ProLibertad will be re-forwarding a previous message sent out in July that 
will give the current update a historical continuity.

FREE THE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
END THE REPRESSION AGAINST ANTI-NAVY AND ANTI-COLONIAL ACTIVISTS!!

ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

UNI�N DE JUVENTUDES SOCIALISTAS (UJS-MST)
Apartado 22699, Estaci�n UPR, San Juan, PR 00931

September 9, 2001

San Juan, Puerto Rico
Federal Judge H�ctor Lafitte, who is conducting the case against
young student Pedro Col�n Almenas, did not allow Agent Galindo or
Agent Walters to testify about details over the investigation which
would show that this case is a frame-up caused by political motives.

In a meeting among FBI and Army Criminal Investigation Division (CID)
agents, the FBI stated that the reason for assuming jurisdiction over
this case was due to the "political situation in Puerto Rico"
and the fact that "the student is a pro-independence activist".

Agent Walters, of the Army CID, declared that what occurred on April
30 at the ROTC facilities in R�o Piedras (events for which Col�n
Almenas is being accused) was a "small skirmish" from which only a
simple aggression resulted and that therefore he does not understand
why the prosecution filed charges of aggravated assault.

After the jury retreated, Col�n Almenas' attorneys Juan Ram�n Acevedo
and Linda Backiel argumented that it is the government itself that
has accepted that this is a case of a political nature and that
therefore the testimonies of agents Galindo and Walters should be
allowed.

Jimmy Torres, Assistant to the Chancellor of the University of Puerto
Rico, R�o Piedras Campus, testified that in a meeting with district
attorney V�zquez (who leads the case) and FBI Agent Alvarado, these
let him know that "they wanted to make an example for the students
out of Pedro Col�n's case", given the present political situation in
Puerto Rico regarding the struggle against the presence of the US
Navy in Vieques.

Furthermore, the witnesses presented by the prosecutor contradicted
each other numerous times. The descriptions of the accused that were
given did not match with that of Col�n Almenas. As a matter of fact,
ROTC Cadet V�lez initially identified three different individuals.
However, Agent Galindo only investigated one of the descriptions, he
followed only one lead, adjusting the description to that of the
accused.

Why didn't the FBI investigate the other descriptions that were
received and that appeared in Galindo's own notes? Would it be
because these exonerate Col�n Almenas? This again proves that this
case is a vile frame-up with obvious political motives.

Agent Galindo stated that the investigation related to the events
occurred on April 30 is not over. In other words, he made us know
that persecution will continue. In the light of this, university
students will not yield in our antimilitarist struggle and will not
allow them to intimidate us. The best proof of this will be the march
that will take place next Tuesday, September 11, at the R�o Piedras
Campus. The march called "To study without the military" will start
at 10AM and will be coming out of General Studies Faculty and will
end at ROTC facilities on Barbosa Avenue.

The trial will continue tomorrow, Monday, at 9AM. The prosecution and
Pedro Colon's counsel have already finished presenting the evidence.
Only the closing statements of both parts are left and then the jury
will retreat in order to deliberate. We are hoping this happens some
time near midday.

Ricardo Olivero Lora
Spokesperson
Uni�n de Juventudes Socialistas (UJS)
Movimiento Socialista de Trabajadores (MST)
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Update 
as of Midday:

Pedro Colon Almenas has been found guilty by Judge Hector Lafitte.  Pedro 
has been set free pending sentencing; Lafitte will sentence Pedro in 
January.  Lafitte has ordered Pedro not to participate in any political 
activities while he is free,  giving further proof that this is a political 
inquistion against a young socialist/youth activist.








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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2032
Sender:BENJAMIN RAMOS <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-10 23:46:59
Subject:Background on Pedro colon Almenas
Message:

ProLibertad reforwards this message to  give a historical continuity to 
the recent update we have sent out on Pedro Colon's case. 
______________________________________________________________________
Brothers and Sisters, 

This Press Release came to the attention of ProLibertad earlier today 
and we want to inform the greater movement of the recent repressive acts 
that are taking place in Puerto Rico. Historically, the state has used 
the tactic of identfying movement leaders and incacerating them under 
false and vague charges, as a way of interrupting work and draining 
resources. This repressive act always occurrs in a period of upsurge, 
when the community is active and mobilizing itself. 

ProLibertad is calling for the greater movement to help in whatever way 
it can and to lend support to the organizations in Puerto Rico that are 
at the forefront of the Vieques work, student movement, socialist 
struggle, and independence struggle in a time when repression is 
beginning to increase throughout the island.

For more info. on this matter contact ProLibertad at 
ProLibertad@...


Union of Socialist Youth (U.J.S.)
Socialist Movement of Workers (M.S.T.)
P.O. Box 22699, UPR Station, San Juan, Puerto Rico 00931
For More Information: (787) 763-6946

PRESS RELEASE

July 3, 2001

Today, Tuesday, July 3, 2001, at approximately 5 p.m. 8 agents of the 
Federal Bureau of Investigation (F.B.I.), went to the home of university 

student Pedro Colon Almenas to arrest him. Pedro was alone with his 
mother when the squad of F.B.I. agents arrived. They arrested him on 
trumped up charges surrounding the protest of the R.O.T.C. offices 
against the morning exercises by the ROTC at the Rio Piedras Campus of 
the University of Puerto Rico called by the students on April 30th. It 
is significant that this arrest takes place 2 months after the events of 

April 30th, barely a week until the end of the U.S. Navy maneuvers in 
Vieques and the day before the 4th of July.

Pedro Colon Almenas is a member of the Union de Juventudes Socialsita 
(U.J.S. - Union of Socialist Youth), the youth organization affiliated 
with the Movimiento Socialista de Trabajadores (M.S.T. - Socialist 
Movement of Workers). The U.J.S. has carried out a continuous 2 year 
campaign of political denunciation of the military presence at the 
University. The M.S.T. organized a brigade that was able to penetrate 
the firing range in Vieques during the recent military practices and was 

able to halt the bombings according to the very admission of the U.S. 
Navy.

Given this reality, we denounce this arrest as a clear reprisal on the 
part of the F.B.I. in retaliation for the actions of civil disobedience 
carrited out by the M.S.T. in just the last two weeks. In addition, 
this is part of a public relations ploy by the F.B.I. as a component of 
their efforts to promote the campaign of political hysteria that has 
been unleashed by the most right-wing conservative sectors of the New 
Progressive Party (pro-statehood party) (PNP), which they began with 
their attack on the chapel in front of the Legislature in San Juan and 
culminates in their 4th of July activities.

This arrest is yet another attack by the repressive aparatus of the 
Federal Government against the Puerto Rican people in our struggle to 
get the U.S. Navy out of Vieques.

We make a call to the people of Puerto Rico to demonstrate solidarity 
with student Pedro Colon Almenas in the face of this blatant frame-up 
and act of political persecution by the F.B.I.

Ricardo Olivero Lora
Union de Juventudes Socialistas (UJS-MST)







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2033
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-11 09:53:16
Subject:News Alert: Plane Crashes Into World Trade Center
Message:


>Tuesday, September 11, 2001 -- 8:50 AM EST
>------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Plane Crashes Into World Trade Center
>
>A plane crashed into Manhattan's World Trade Center this
>morning, causing heavy damage and fire to several floors.
>
>Full story: http://www.nytimes.com/?0911na
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>HOW TO CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION
>------------------------------------------------------------
>You received this message because you signed up to receive
>news alerts from NYTimes.com. To cancel delivery, change
>delivery options, change your e-mail address or sign up for
>other newsletters, see http://www.nytimes.com/email
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2034
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-11 14:36:17
Subject:taliban condemns attacks, denies bin Laden's involvement:
Message:

Taliban condemn attacks in
                U.S., deny bin Laden's
                involvement

                By KATHY GANNON
                The Associated Press
                9/11/01 1:24 PM

                KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) -- Afghanistan's hardline Taliban
                rulers condemned the devastating terrorist attacks in New
                York and Washington on Tuesday and rejected
                suggestions that Osama bin Laden could be behind them.

                "We never support terrorism. We too are targets of
                terrorism," Abdul Hai Muttmain, the Taliban's spokesman
                in the southern city of Kandahar, told The Associated
                Press in a telephone interview.

                After the attacks, a London-based Arab journalist said
                followers of bin Laden warned three weeks ago that they
                would carry out a "huge and unprecedented attack" on
                U.S. interests.

                Abdel-Bari Atwan, editor of the Al-Quds al-Arabi
                newspaper, said he received a warning from Islamic
                fundamentalists close to bin Laden, but did not take the
                threat seriously.

                "They said it would be a huge and unprecedented attack
                but they did not specify," Atwan said in a telephone
                interview in London.

                "We usually receive this kind of thing. At the time we did
                not take the warnings seriously as they had happened
                several times in the past and nothing happened. "This time
                it seems his people were accurate and meant every word
                they said."

                Atwan, who interviewed bin Laden in 1996 and has since
                maintained contacts with his followers, said he believed the
                attack on the World Trade Center in New York was the
                work of "an Islamic fundamentalist group" close to bin
                Laden.

                But Muttmain, who is the spokesman for the Taliban's
                reclusive leader Mullah Mohammed Omar and one of the
                most senior Taliban officials, dismissed allegations that 
bin
                Laden could be behind the attacks in the United States.

                "Such a big conspiracy, to have infiltrated in such a major
                way is impossible for Osama," said Muttmain. He said bin
                Laden does not have the facilities to orchestrate such a
                major assault within the United States.

                Afghanistan's Taliban rulers, who espouse a harsh brand of
                Islamic law, have resisted U.S. demands to hand over bin
                Laden, indicted in the United States on charges of
                masterminding the bombings of two U.S. Embassies in
                East Africa in 1998 that killed 224 people, including 12
                Americans.

                After the attacks in East Africa, Washington retaliated with
                a blistering missile attack in August 1998, sending more
                than 70 Tomahawk cruise missiles into eastern
                Afghanistan apparently targeting training camps operated
                by bin Laden.

                The attacks killed about 20 followers of bin Laden's but the
                exiled Saudi millionaire escaped unhurt. Since then he has
                been forced by the Taliban rulers to stop giving interviews
                and making statements.

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This 
material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2035
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-11 20:07:18
Subject:Fwd: [nbpcmembers] Fwd: (no subject)
Message:



>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>CC: jerm@...
>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Fwd: (no subject)
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:00:37 +0000
>
>
>
>
> >From: Amirib@...
> >To: jmodibo@..., vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
> >Subject: (no subject)
> >Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:32:54 EDT
> >
> >"IMPEACH BUSH!"  THE HEADLINE GETS LESS FANTASTIC
> >
> >
> >        U&S does not support Terror, as the main mode of revolutionary
> >transformation of society, but the violent, greedy state terror of US
> >imperialism, which has characterized the Bullwacker regime in 10 short
> >months, has dialectally driven some forces in the world to launch a
> >dialectically similar kind of attack!
> >
> >       Our headline for this issue IMPEACH BUSH,       might have seemed 
>a
> >little farfetched to some, before the events of early morning Trues Sept
> >11.2001! When a multi pronged attack on the major symbols of US 
>Imperialist
> >Power was carried out, apparently by persons taking over US domestic
> >flights
> >on AMERICAN AIRLINES AND UNITED AIRLINES (just to make it clear) and
> >blowing
> >the top floors offf of the two towers of the World Trade Center, (Wall 
>St)
> >and destroying large parts of The Pentagon , the seat of US military
> >terror!
> >
> >             BEWARE THE MINDLESS FRENZY OF THE BEAST!
> >
> >So in the next few months we will see bombings, invasions, commando 
>raids,
> >domestic intimidation and increased surveillance over US citizens by the
> >CIA,
> >FBI &c Veteran Revolutionaries and Organizations should be particularly
> >security conscious. Reds, Blacks, Oppressed Nationalities, Arabs,  Recent
> >Immigrants
> >shd take care! The far rights will even try to make a propaganda pogrom
> >against the Jews, just as they are making one against the Arabs & 
>Muslims.
> >        The Bushwackers are already fingering Omar Bin Laden as the
> >perpetrator, and although the Taliban who control Afghanistan deny any
> >connection, it is probable that the Bushwacker will bomb and raid
> >Afghanistan
> >and other middle Eastern sites in a few minutes!
> >
> >        Under the illegal, racist, Imperialist far right Bushwacker
> >counterfeit presidency the fake us democracy has in defiance of the
> >constitution, US law, the civil rights movement struggle mandated pledge 
>of
> >equal rights and democracy, has alienated itself from even its staunchest
> >imperialist allies, and set itself up as a lonely superpower and A. Rogue
> >State!
> >        Bush2 has  withdrawn from every international treaty aimed at
> >stabilization of world tensions, exploited and in collusion with the
> >Israeli
> >war criminal, Sharon,  escalated war in the middle east, liniated a new
> >"Cold
> >Ward" with China,   dismissed every environmental, social, democratic
> >statute
> >the US people have mandated for the last half century, while embezzling 
>the
> >national treasury , absconding with the so called "surplus":and so 
>putting
> >Social Security at risk , increased unemplyment in the US over 5% and 
>even
> >panicked his corporate masters on Wall St by causing the market to 
>plummet
> >and their profit margins shrink!
> >        With the criminal seizure of the national elections in what
> >amounted
> >to a right wing coup, in effect hurling the social organization of the US
> >back into the 19th century (Pre emancipation proclamation pre 13, 14 15th
> >amendment. See  "Bushwacked: A Counterfeit President for a Fake 
>Democracy",
> >Amiri Baraka)) plus the "legalizing" of the confederate flag to declare 
>to
> >the world the victory of the confederate traitor states over the US got,
> >Bush, like Andre Johnson after the same forces murdered Lincoln, 
>eliminated
> >the entire fabric  of laws and statutes that came out of the civil war.
> >Johnson's impeachment failed because of the intervention of the newly
> >emerging US imperialism, REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY MUST  BEGIN TO MOBILIZE
> >AND
> >ORGANIZE THE DEMOCRATIC US MASSES TO BUILD A "LEFT BLOC" TO IMPEACH BUSH,
> >AIMING THE MAIN BLOW AT THE FAR RIGHT WHILE EXPOSING THE FAKE "LEFT" 
>PETTY
> >BOURGEOIS LIBERALS, AND SO QUICKEN  THE DESTRUCTION OF US IMPERIALISM IN
> >THE
> >21st CENTURY.
> >        FAILURE TO RID THE NATION OF THIS COUNTERFEIT PRESIDENT AND HIS
> >ILLEGAL, WHITE SUPREMACIST, CORPORATE PROSTITUTE IMPERIALIST RULING JUNTA
> >CAN
> >ONLY LEAD THE US TOWARD ECONOMIC COLLAPSE, "LITTLE WARS" ACROSS THE 
>GLOBE,
> >AND IN ALL PROBABILITY A  CIVILIZATION HALTING GLOBAL CONFLICT.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2037
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-13 16:36:01
Subject:Re: [nbpc] (unknown)
Message:

while otherwise on point,
this view seems to neglect
suspect #1:

bush &co!

cs


>
>"IMPEACH BUSH!"
>THE HEADLINE GETS LESS FANTASTIC
>
>U&S does not support Terror, as the main mode of revolutionary
>transformation of society, but the violent, greedy state terror of US
>imperialism, which has characterized the Bushwacker regime in 10 short
>months, has dialectally driven some forces in the world to launch a
>dialectically similar kind of attack!
>
>Our headline for this issue: IMPEACH BUSH, might have seemed a little
>farfetched to some, before the events of early morning Tues, Sept 11, 2001!
>When a multi-pronged attack on the major symbols of US Imperialist Power 
>was
>carried out, apparently by persons taking over US domestic flights on
>AMERICAN AIRLINES AND UNITED AIRLINES (just to make it clear) and blowing
>the top floors off of the two towers of the World Trade Center, (Wall St)
>quickly resulting in their complete collapse, and destroying large parts of
>The Pentagon, the seat of US military terror!
>
>              BEWARE THE MINDLESS FRENZY OF THE BEAST!
>
>	So in the next few months we will see bombings, invasions, commando raids,
>domestic intimidation and increased surveillance over US citizens by the
>CIA, FBI. Veteran Revolutionaries and Organizations should be particularly
>security conscious. Reds, Blacks, Oppressed Nationalities, Arabs, Recent
>Immigrants shd take care! The far-rights will even try to make a propaganda
>pogrom against the Jews, just as they are making one against the Arabs &
>Muslims.  The Bushwackers are already fingering Osama Bin Laden as the
>perpetrator, and although the Taliban who control Afghanistan deny any
>connection, it is probable that the Bushwacker will bomb and raid
>Afghanistan and other middle Eastern sites in a few minutes!
>     Under the illegal, racist, Imperialist far right Bushwacker 
>counterfeit
>presidency, the fake US democracy--in defiance of the constitution, US law,
>the civil rights movement struggle mandated pledge of equal rights and
>democracy�has alienated itself from even its staunchest imperialist allies,
>and set itself up as a lonely superpower and A. Rogue State!
>	Bush2 has withdrawn from every international treaty aimed at stabilization
>of world tensions, exploited and in collusion with the Israeli war 
>criminal,
>Sharon, escalated war in the middle east, delineated a new "Cold War" with
>China, dismissed every environmental, social, democratic statute the US
>people have mandated for the last half century, while embezzling the
>national treasury, absconding with the so called "surplus" and thus putting
>Social Security at risk and making any prescription-drug program for 
>Seniors
>impossible, increasing  unemployment in the US over 5% and even panicked 
>his
>corporate masters on Wall St by causing the market to plummet and their
>profit margins shrink!
>      With the criminal seizure of the national elections in what amounted 
>to
>a right wing coup, in effect, hurling the social organization of the US 
>back
>into the 19th century (Pre Emancipation Proclamation, pre-13, 14, 15th
>amendment. (See "Bushwacked: A Counterfeit President for a Fake Democracy",
>Amiri Baraka) plus the "legalizing" of the confederate flag to declare to
>the world the victory of the confederate traitor states over the US
>GOVERNMENT, Bush, like Andrew Johnson, who became president, after these
>same forces murdered Lincoln, eliminated the entire fabric of laws and
>statutes that came out of the civil war. Johnson's impeachment failed
>because of the intervention of the newly emerging US Imperialism.
>        REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY MUST BEGIN TO MOBILIZE AND ORGANIZE THE
>DEMOCRATIC US MASSES TO BUILD A "LEFT BLOC" TO IMPEACH BUSH, AIMING THE 
>MAIN
>BLOW AT THE FAR RIGHT, WHILE EXPOSING THE FAKE "LEFT" PETTY BOURGEOIS
>LIBERALS. AND SO QUICKEN THE DESTRUCTION OF US IMPERIALISM IN THE 21st
>CENTURY.
>        FAILURE TO RID THE NATION OF THIS COUNTERFEIT PRESIDENT AND HIS
>ILLEGAL, WHITE SUPREMACIST, CORPORATE PROSTITUTE IMPERIALIST RULING JUNTA,
>CAN ONLY LEAD THE US TOWARD ECONOMIC COLLAPSE, "LITTLE WARS" ACROSS THE
>GLOBE, AND IN ALL PROBABILITY A CIVILIZATION HALTING GLOBAL CONFLICT.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2038
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-13 16:40:05
Subject:Re: [nbpc] (unknown)
Message:


while otherwise on point,
this view seems to neglect
suspect #1:

bush &co!

cs

>"IMPEACH BUSH!"
>THE HEADLINE GETS LESS FANTASTIC
>
>U&S does not support Terror, as the main mode of revolutionary
>transformation of society, but the violent, greedy state terror of US
>imperialism, which has characterized the Bushwacker regime in 10 short
>months, has dialectally driven some forces in the world to launch a
>dialectically similar kind of attack!
>
>Our headline for this issue: IMPEACH BUSH, might have seemed a little
>farfetched to some, before the events of early morning Tues, Sept 11, 2001!
>When a multi-pronged attack on the major symbols of US Imperialist Power 
>was
>carried out, apparently by persons taking over US domestic flights on
>AMERICAN AIRLINES AND UNITED AIRLINES (just to make it clear) and blowing
>the top floors off of the two towers of the World Trade Center, (Wall St)
>quickly resulting in their complete collapse, and destroying large parts of
>The Pentagon, the seat of US military terror!
>
>              BEWARE THE MINDLESS FRENZY OF THE BEAST!
>
>	So in the next few months we will see bombings, invasions, commando raids,
>domestic intimidation and increased surveillance over US citizens by the
>CIA, FBI. Veteran Revolutionaries and Organizations should be particularly
>security conscious. Reds, Blacks, Oppressed Nationalities, Arabs, Recent
>Immigrants shd take care! The far-rights will even try to make a propaganda
>pogrom against the Jews, just as they are making one against the Arabs &
>Muslims.  The Bushwackers are already fingering Osama Bin Laden as the
>perpetrator, and although the Taliban who control Afghanistan deny any
>connection, it is probable that the Bushwacker will bomb and raid
>Afghanistan and other middle Eastern sites in a few minutes!
>     Under the illegal, racist, Imperialist far right Bushwacker 
>counterfeit
>presidency, the fake US democracy--in defiance of the constitution, US law,
>the civil rights movement struggle mandated pledge of equal rights and
>democracy�has alienated itself from even its staunchest imperialist allies,
>and set itself up as a lonely superpower and A. Rogue State!
>	Bush2 has withdrawn from every international treaty aimed at stabilization
>of world tensions, exploited and in collusion with the Israeli war 
>criminal,
>Sharon, escalated war in the middle east, delineated a new "Cold War" with
>China, dismissed every environmental, social, democratic statute the US
>people have mandated for the last half century, while embezzling the
>national treasury, absconding with the so called "surplus" and thus putting
>Social Security at risk and making any prescription-drug program for 
>Seniors
>impossible, increasing  unemployment in the US over 5% and even panicked 
>his
>corporate masters on Wall St by causing the market to plummet and their
>profit margins shrink!
>      With the criminal seizure of the national elections in what amounted 
>to
>a right wing coup, in effect, hurling the social organization of the US 
>back
>into the 19th century (Pre Emancipation Proclamation, pre-13, 14, 15th
>amendment. (See "Bushwacked: A Counterfeit President for a Fake Democracy",
>Amiri Baraka) plus the "legalizing" of the confederate flag to declare to
>the world the victory of the confederate traitor states over the US
>GOVERNMENT, Bush, like Andrew Johnson, who became president, after these
>same forces murdered Lincoln, eliminated the entire fabric of laws and
>statutes that came out of the civil war. Johnson's impeachment failed
>because of the intervention of the newly emerging US Imperialism.
>        REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRACY MUST BEGIN TO MOBILIZE AND ORGANIZE THE
>DEMOCRATIC US MASSES TO BUILD A "LEFT BLOC" TO IMPEACH BUSH, AIMING THE 
>MAIN
>BLOW AT THE FAR RIGHT, WHILE EXPOSING THE FAKE "LEFT" PETTY BOURGEOIS
>LIBERALS. AND SO QUICKEN THE DESTRUCTION OF US IMPERIALISM IN THE 21st
>CENTURY.
>        FAILURE TO RID THE NATION OF THIS COUNTERFEIT PRESIDENT AND HIS
>ILLEGAL, WHITE SUPREMACIST, CORPORATE PROSTITUTE IMPERIALIST RULING JUNTA,
>CAN ONLY LEAD THE US TOWARD ECONOMIC COLLAPSE, "LITTLE WARS" ACROSS THE
>GLOBE, AND IN ALL PROBABILITY A CIVILIZATION HALTING GLOBAL CONFLICT.
>
>
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>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
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>
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>
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Post ID:2039
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-13 18:10:15
Subject:holla
Message:

inside job
by cliff smith

boxcutters & knives?
(in 'die hard 2', they were jacked by remote, from the ground...)

total(!) failure of security on
4 flights at 3 airports on 2 airlines?

100% hi-jacking success? (zero since '91)

"transponders"?

4 stolen planes in sky,
(at once!) &
no report till impact?

didnt fbi just set up hq in nwk?

didnt fbi just oust its nj chief?
wasn't he black?

didnt nj state police just put fed in charge? (1st non-trooper)

whitman works for who?

bush was where? (aaliyah crashed where?)
greenspan was where?
schundler (9 wks till election, down 20) in israel??

nyc democratic primary?

how many votes gore got?

bush/powell no-show at world racism forum?

who killed president kennedy?
           senator kennedy?

didnt pentagon papers?
wasnt watergate?

wasnt bush2 daddy cia boss?

lemme find out...





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Post ID:2040
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-13 20:17:53
Subject:General Statement
Message:

To all- I'm thinking about the post that I just sent out to Tom D. on the 
NJFO egroup in reaction to questions that he raised.  It reflected the anger 
and intense emotion that I'm feeling now, as I'm sure you all understand.  
But I won't sleep well tonight if I think that we managed to stir up another 
endless tit-for-tat egroup exchange over this.  What has happened in the 
past few days is too deep, too incomprehensible, too tragic to engage in 
knee-jerk reponses.  I learned from Tom himself a long time ago that anger 
is a necessary emotion--and positive when it's focused productively--because 
it allows us not to be consumed by the sort of hopeless despair and 
depression that this madness can bring.  It's been tough going here at 
NJSOA- every one of my professors, it seems, & many students, have lost 
friends & colleagues & former students.  Some have lost their offices and 
even buildings that they helped construct.  Hundreds of us watched the 
tragedy unfold from the architecture building which prides itself on a 
magnificant view of the NYC skyline.  I came to architecture school here to 
learn how to rebuild cities imploded by imperialism's domestic 
contradictions, and I've spent almost every bit of my energy and imagination 
toward this goal for the past 5 semesters.  Now I will always associate this 
place with images of a city being destroyed, and the knowledge of thousands 
of lives being lost.  Every consious person must by now realize that things 
will never be the same.  A kinetic shift is taking place in the way that 
this nation relates to the rest of the world.  And what is coming next 
terrifies me.  So let us take the time to sort this out, to process the 
loss, to feel the anger.  But let us search most of all for ways to come 
together, not to be devisive, to support each other's efforts when they are 
directed at ending the madness that is imperialism, and as always remain 
open to constructive criticism and struggle.  Marx predicted 150 years ago 
"Socialism or Barbarism." I for one believe it more now than ever.

Unity & Struggle, Matthew Smith

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Post ID:2041
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-14 02:53:18
Subject:FREE MUMIA-DEMAND A NEW HEARING!!
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is calling on all peoples to forward this 
message far and wide.  We also ask that people take a little time out of 
their day to participate in this Fax/Lettering writing campaign.  WE MUST 
DEMAND MUMIA'S FREEDOM!!

ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 2121-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Stop the execution for a new, fair trial:
Free Mumia Abu-Jamal!
Free Leonard� Peltier!
Free all political prisoners������������������������������������������
����������

Please send letters and faxes!We need as big a push now as when Mumia
was under death warrants. The federal judge has let us know that
innocence will be no defense to him and that the state court is the only
place to seek for a chance to put new evidence on record. He then gave
examples of state laws, technicalities and time limits, through which
they could deny him a new trial.

The state court judge seems� interested in doing this. We have till
September 21st before the briefs from both sides are in� to influence
the judge's decision. There is also a call for as many people as
possible in Philadelphia on the 15 for the biggest demonstrationever for
Mumia.� So everyone please send your own letters, redistribute, this
announcement, let others know any way you can, and get groups you are in
to send letters and if at all possible send reps to Philadelphia. Any
groups with a human rights interest should at least be concerned that
unconstitutional, unjust laws� such as the Anti-terrorism and Effective
Death Penalty law, and� Supreme� Court precedents,like the one that let
a man proven innocent after conviction be executed, will be used against
many more people much more easily if they can be used against the most
famous and vocal target. MUMIA STANDS WITH US IN EVERY HUMAN RIGHTS AND
SOCIAL JUSTICE STRUGGLE. LET'S STAND WITH HIM!
�
------------------------------------------------
- FAX and PHONE Campaign - ASAP!
- 9/8 Mobe Organizing Meeting!
- 9/15 Philadelphia Emergency Action!
- 9/15 San Francisco Chronicle Mass Picket/ Community Outreach Day!
------------------------------------------------
Greetings All Supporters of Justice and Freedom for Mumia Abu-Jamal!

*URGENT: CALL, WRITE, and FAX Judge Dembe!
Call and/or send a letter of protest to Judge Pamela Dembe to demand
(diplomatically, yet firmly) she grant a hearing at which the confession of
Arnold Beverly to the murder of Police Officer Daniel Faulkner be admitted
into evidence. There is no statute of limitations on murder!

The Honorable Pamela Pryor Dembe
Pennsylvania Court of Common Pleas
Criminal Justice Center, Suite 1415
1301 Filbert Street
Philadelphia, PA� 19107

Phone: (215) 683-7148; fax: (215) 683-7150



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Post ID:2042
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-13 23:00:41
Subject:people unite!
Message:

people unite!

vigil & speak out
against
terrorism & US imperialism

6:00 sunday, 16 september
george st. fountain

student/worker organization
for revolutionary democracy

contact cliff smith 732.214.8828
can_bush@...

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Post ID:2043
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-14 12:31:18
Subject:Afghanistan vows revenge if U.S. strikes it
Message:

Afghanistan vows revenge if U.S. strikes it; leader says bin Laden not
to blame

By AMIR SHAH
The Associated Press
9/14/01 11:35 AM

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) -- Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia warned 
Friday of "revenge" if the United States attacks it for
harboring Osama bin Laden, the main suspect in the terrorist attacks on New 
York and Washington.

"If a country or group violates our country, we will not forget our 
revenge," Taliban spokesman Abdul Hai Muttmain said from the
militia's headquarters in Kandahar in southern Afghanistan. He did not give 
details.

Speculation has been mounting that Washington may take military action 
against the Taliban as evidence grows that bin Laden,
an exiled Saudi millionaire, was behind the worst terrorist attack in U.S. 
history.

Bin Laden has been living in Afghanistan under the protection of the Taliban 
since 1996. The Taliban are refusing to produce bin
Laden unless Washington provides convincing evidence of guilt.

On Friday, the Taliban's reclusive leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar, said U.S. 
investigators were trying to link bin Laden to this
week's attacks "unjustifiably and without any reason."

In a statement read aloud by the Afghan ambassador to Pakistan on Friday, 
Omar said the attacks themselves point to bin
Laden's innocence "because Osama has no pilots" and because there is no 
pilot training in Afghanistan.

U.S. officials have said the some of the hijackers were trained as pilots in 
the United States.

Anyone singling out bin Laden is trying "to add to his (own) reputation," 
Omar said.

Meanwhile, Pakistani military sources said Friday that Omar had been moved 
to a new hide-out in Afghanistan. Omar normally is
believed to live in secret locations in Kandahar, where Pakistani sources 
said the militants have reinforced security.

Pakistan, which has been Taliban's closest ally, is believed to have the 
best intelligence on Afghanistan and the militant militia.

Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf faces a tough decision. He can promise 
full cooperation with Washington in its hunt for the
terrorists and risk the wrath of Muslim fundamentalists at home, or refuse 
to cooperate and infuriate Washington.

The Taliban face a similar dilemma. If they hand over bin Laden, they risk 
angering thousands of foreign fighters who are
indispensable in their war against a northern-based alliance. If they 
continue to harbor bin Laden, they risk a full-scale attack by
the world's most powerful army.

The United Nations and many international aid organizations have withdrawn 
their foreign workers from Afghanistan, fearing an
attack. Foreigners have been ordered to leave and the Taliban have stopped 
issuing visas to foreigners.

Amid the growing fears of a U.S. attack, war-weary Afghans resigned 
themselves Friday to the possibility of more bloodshed.
Since the 1970s, the country has been wracked by successive disasters: a 
Soviet invasion, civil war, the rise of the radical
Taliban, a devastating drought and famine.

"We have suffered so much. Every night so many children go to bed hungry," 
said Zalmai, a teacher who like many Afghans uses
only one name. "What do we have to live for? Let the rockets come and set 
this whole country on fire once and for all."

Some Afghans expressed the kind of rage that may have led to the terror 
attacks in the first place.

"Any enemy of the Muslims will be punished by God," said Imam Mohammed 
Muslim Haqqani during Friday prayers at a mosque
in the Afghan capital of Kabul. "The United States and Israel are enemies of 
Islam."

Such sentiments were also common in neighboring Pakistan, where Islamic 
fundamentalists enjoy widespread popularity.

"Allah intensified the fire and destruction of those planes," said prayer 
leader Maulana Abdul Aziz at a mosque in the Pakistani
capital of Islamabad, explaining why two hijacked planes were able to turn 
New York's World Trade Center into rubble Tuesday.

In the Pakistani city of Peshawar on Friday, several hundred people emerged 
from a mosque shouting "jehad!" or holy war, and
shouted pro-Afghanistan slogans.

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Post ID:2044
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-14 16:22:01
Subject:Fwd: BRC STATEMENT
Message:

Very interesting and thought-provoking piece, please read.

Asela


This is a Press Release/Statement from the Black Radical Congress
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Black Radical Congress (BRC)
>
>For Immediate Release
>
>September 13, 2001
>
>Contact:
>Art McGee <artmcgee@...>
>Bill Fletcher, Jr. <bfletcher4@...>
>
>Terror Attacks of September 11, 2001
>
>During this extremely sad and traumatic time, we extend our
>sincere and heartfelt condolences to the families and loved
>ones of all those who lost their life on September 11th. We
>also wish for the speedy and full recovery of those who were
>injured, and we hope and pray that in the aftermath of the
>attacks, rescue crews can find as many people still alive
>as possible.
>
>The Black Radical Congress (BRC) strongly condemns the
>horrific terror attacks which occurred on September 11th,
>2001. The brazen murder of countless thousands of civilians
>cannot be supported or condoned.
>
>It is without question that US imperialism has brought
>genocidal levels of death and destruction to people around
>the world. Whether one looks at the situation in Iraq with
>the continual blockade and air bombardments, the situation
>in Palestine where the US continues to give virtually
>uncritical support to the Israelis in their national
>oppression of the Palestinians, the economic blockade
>against Cuba which aims to undermine its economy and
>weaken its population, or any number of other places,
>one clearly sees the callousness and evil intent with
>which US imperialism treats the lives and property of
>others, especially non-white peoples around the globe.
>
>Yet, even with a firm understanding of the causes of the
>desperation, fury, and hatred of US imperialism, turning to
>terrorism to fight global oppression and exploitation is not
>an acceptable strategy. A clear and unambiguous distinction
>must be made between radical/revolutionary political action
>on the one hand, and terrorism on the other, regardless of
>whether the causes that *appeared* to inspire the terrorist
>action(s) are just. Open and unmitigated attacks on civilian
>targets do not advance radical/revolutionary causes and must
>be repudiated. Rather, such attacks inevitably antagonize the
>populace, weaken any existing popular support, and help
>legitimize heightened levels of repression by the imperialist
>state against *all* progressive/radical/revolutionary political
>activity, including increased restrictions on the civil rights
>of the people.
>
>We already hear, in the voices of those in power, calls for
>war and vengeance. War and vengeance without a precise target,
>but striking out blindly, is nothing more than self-serving
>jingoism. Given the track record of the US, this could
>include indiscriminate bombings or missile attacks, such as
>the attack against the Sudanese pharmaceutical laboratory
>two years ago, which was later found *not* to have been
>connected with any sort of terrorist activity.
>
>The dangers presented by the September 11th terrorist acts
>do not restrict themselves to the external threat. We hear
>on television and radio calls for changing the laws and
>regulations in order to make it easier to conduct
>surveillance and to carry-out covert operations against
>potential opponents of the US. Rather than accomplishing
>anything in terms of reducing the threat of terrorism, such
>steps will eliminate basic civil liberties and strengthen
>the existing tendency toward a racist and classist police
>state. The police are already out of control and on the
>rampage in communities across the country. We cannot afford
>to further unleash their undemocratic and frequently
>murderous behavior in the name of national security.
>
>We should add here that the terrorist attacks have also
>brought potential damage to the growing anti-capitalist
>globalization movement. The ruling class has been making
>noise for months about the demonstrations that accompany
>the gatherings of capitalist globalizers. They have inferred
>that these demonstrations will get increasingly out of control.
>There is no question that the events of September 11th will
>be used as a pretext to both discourage activity, as well as
>to clamp down on any and all popular outrage with neo-liberal
>globalization.
>
>It is also critical in moments such as these that we
>as human beings fight and resist popular impulses toward
>scape-goating and racism. From almost the moment of the
>first attack on the World Trade Center, there has been an
>assumption floated within the media that Arabs or Muslim
>fundamentalists were behind the attacks. The reaction to
>the attacks is reminiscent of what we witnessed immediately
>after the Oklahoma City bombings. There was a widespread
>assumption that Arabs or Muslims were behind the attack on
>the Federal Office building. Few establishment observers
>expected, or led any of the public to expect, that the
>terrorist could be -- and was -- a homegrown, white
>American right-winger.
>
>Therefore, it is important to reserve judgment until a more
>thorough investigation is conducted. This is particularly
>important given the anti-Palestinian/anti-Arab/anti-Muslim
>bias of the media. The automatic assumption of the US media
>is that Palestinians specifically, and Arabs generally, are
>animals, or at best, fanatics with no concern for human
>life. The just and righteous Palestinian cause is rarely
>given credible time, and when offered, generally dismissed
>by allegedly objective (but really pro-Israeli) commentators.
>Therefore, in the current situation of horror following these
>criminal acts, we must actively oppose any and all witch-
>hunting and stereotyping which is bound to emerge.
>
>Yet another danger we currently face will be xenophobia
>and, general anti-immigrant sentiment. This will almost
>inevitably be directed at immigrants of color and
>particularly those who "look" like they might be of Middle
>Eastern (North African) origin. The attacks on immigrants
>and the condemnation of entire communities must be stopped
>before they escalate out of control. We already see some of
>this happening with numerous reports of anonymous death
>threats sent to Arab and Muslim institutions, as well as
>the spray painting of racist slogans and direct, personal
>threats and attacks on individuals who are assumed to be
>from the Middle East (North Africa). We call on all
>clear-thinking people to be especially vigilant at this
>time in making sure that in the aftermath of this tragedy,
>another tragedy born of pain, anger, and hatred does not
>occur. True anti-racism may require us to put ourselves
>at risk physically in order to defend Arabs and Muslims
>from unwarranted attacks.
>
>Lastly, Black America must not condone or be indifferent
>to the horrendous loss of human life resulting from this
>tragedy, nor can we allow these horrific acts to be used
>as an excuse to further repress Arab-Americans, Muslims, or
>those perceived to be opponents of capitalist globalization.
>As a people that has survived over 400 years of genocidal
>oppression on these shores, we are all too familiar with the
>human suffering caused by both terrorism and racial hatred.
>From the amputations, beatings, and rapes of Chattel Slavery,
>to the New York City Draft Riots of 1863, to the post-
>Reconstruction terrorism of the Klu Klux Klan, to the
>Tulsa Race Riots of 1921, to the government sponsored
>Counter-Intelligence Program (COINTELPRO) of the 1960s,
>to the contemporary state-sanctioned police murder and
>brutality we are fighting today, we as Black people have
>lots of experience with the horrors of terrorism in the
>US, as it has too frequently been directed against us. That
>is why we must show our full and unqualified support and
>compassion for all those suffering as a result of this
>horrible tragedy, most of whom have come to experience
>terrorism for the first time, as we continue our 400+
>year struggle to rid ourselves of this evil, both
>domestically and around the world.
>
>
>-30-
>
>NOTE: When responding or sending us feedback about
>this statement, please indicate whether we have your
>permission to share your comments publicly, as part
>of a broader discussion and debate. Thank you.
>
>Black Radical Congress
>National Office
>Columbia University Station
>P.O. Box 250791
>New York, NY 10025-1509
>Phone: (212) 969-0348
>Email: blackradicalcongress@...
>Web: http://www.blackradicalcongress.org
>




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2045
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-15 13:36:53
Subject:REVOLUTIONARIES OPPOSE TERRORISM & FAR RIGHT: U&S In Depth
Message:

REVOLUTIONARIES OPPOSE TERRORISM!
AND THE FAR RIGHT BUSHWACKER POLICIES WHICH HAVE BROUGHT US TO THE BRINK OF 
WORLD WAR & ECONOMIC DISASTER!

by Amiri Baraka, Unity & Struggle Edit Board

	Random acts of Terror merely drive the people into the arms of the 
Bourgeoisie which can now play �Patriotic Leader� Terrorism strengthens 
Imperialism, and divides the people and alienates them from revolution, 
because they have become disoriented by the terror. Terrorism immobilizes 
the mobilizing and organizing of the people through a campaign of 
Revolutionary Democracy to transform the society. First because they have 
become fearful and  confused and importantly because now the Bourgeoisie 
will divert the masses from their anger at their domestic exploitation and 
oppression and even use the more repressive statutes of Martial Law to ban 
the expressions of civil disobedience under the conditions of �peaceful�  
bourgeois democracy!
	       But as tragic and mindless as these attacks on US citizens might 
seem, they are exactly paralleled by the mindless state terror visited upon 
the world by Bush 2 led  Imperialist violence,  national oppression and 
global exploitation.
                  It is  US Imperialism and specifically the Lawless, 
proto-fascist, insatiable greediness and dishonesty of  Bush 2 and the 
sector of imperialism which he represents, �the most imperialist, 
jingoistic, � most war loving sector. The sector that will bring war to the 
world and fascism to its own people!
             The Terrorist Assault on The US is made possible by US 
Imperialist foreign policy, particularly the conditions created by the 
far-right Bushwacker regime. Bush very entrance into power is the product of 
lawlessness and anarchy. An exact parallel to what has been tragically 
visited upon the U.S.

WHO ARE THE TERRORISTS AND WHAT WILL THE FAR RIGHT BUSHWACKER LED 
IMPERIALIST DO?
	We begin with a quote from Lenin:
      �The Economists and Terrorists bow to different poses of spontaneity. 
The  Economists bow to the spontaneity of �the labor movement pure and 
simple� while the terrorist bow to the spontaneity of the passionate 
indignation of intellectuals who lack the ability or opportunity to connect 
the revolutionary struggle and the working class movement into an integral 
whole. �.who have lost their belief, or who have never believed that this is 
possible, to find some outlet for their indignation and revolutionary energy 
other than terror"� (Lenin "What Is To Be Done,  �D. What There Is In Common 
Between Economism and Terrorism�, Col. Works, , Vol. 5, p 417)

WHO IS OSAMA BIN LADEN?
	Ironically and disgustingly enough the best sources of information on Osama 
bin Laden (whose name is being used like Benzedrine �ups� to drive the 
understandable anger and fear of the US people into a frenzy that will serve 
Imperialism and the  Bush2 Oily Rightist   WORLD OIL CONTROL  �Jones� 
(Addiction) IS BUSH AND THE CIA.
	In the name  �Winning the first War of the 21�st Century Against Terrorism� 
Bush will now missile-blitz, bomb, and even OCCUPY vast sections of the Arab 
world and northern Africa (i.e., the �Middle East�) and  try to turn the 
entire part of the world back into a straight out plantation. In keeping 
with the other cultural tradition Bush carries, as shown in the outright 
Klan like disenfranchisement of Black voters, and right wing theft of the US 
presidency..

WHAT WILL THE COUNTERFEIT PRESIDENT OF A FAKE DEMOCRACY DO NOW?
     	Now they will declare WAR on Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Lebanon, (Bush 
has already been waging  war on the Palestinians , having somehow sprung the 
Israeli war criminal Ariel Sharon (indicted by the Israelis themselves for 
committing a massacre in Lebanon in )
Remember Sharon walked �uninnocently� into the Temple Mount which is a heart 
of Israeli �Palestinian �Religious� ( actually political) contention . His 
presence initiated a �Riot�! Which then re-exploded the Intifada of 
Palestinian resistance to Israeli imperialist annexation and national 
oppression.
	How did all this manage to happen at the same time. Plus, remember, this 
happened just after, mysteriously a US vessel was sabotaged, by a row boat  
just off Yemen��� So the stage was set, for Sharon�s continuos incursions 
into Palestinian territory, as the spearhead for continued  territorial 
expansion by the Israeli Settlers Movement.

	THE STRATEGIC GOAL OF  OIL ADDICTED BUSH LED US IMPERIALISM IS TO DESTROY, 
� PACIFY�,  CONQUER, EVEN OCCUPY, THE ENTIRE �MIDDLE EAST�. WHEN BUSH SAYS 
�END STATES� THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THE TERROR ATTACKS, HE MEANS  �A-RABS� 
ALL,  AND IN KEEPING WITH THE CONFEDERATE COUNTERREVOLUTION THAT BROUGHT HIM 
TO POWER,  HE MEANS TO TURN THE �ARAB WORLD� INTO An OIL PRODUCING  
PLANTATION.

ONCE MORE! WHO IS OSAMA BIN LADEN AND HOW CAN ONE MAN BE POWERFUL ENOUGH TO 
KILL THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS?
Osama bin Laden is a Saudi millionaire, who inherited a 30,000,000 fortune 
from his father�s construction business. He is the Jerry Falwell of Islam.  
(See Falwell�s latest comments that the �ACLU and other sectarian influence 
should be blamed for the  terrorist attack�! )The sick irony of the 
situation is that he is a CIA �BLOWBACK� that is someone who was once 
employed by the agency, but then turns against them.
Bin Laden is a fanatical Anti-Communist, which is why the CIA ( which, sick 
irony of sicker ironies was then being run by Bush 2�s  Old Man!) drafted 
him to fight against the Russians when the invaded Afghanistan. (So now the 
US is take over this old imperialist annexation project, just as they took 
over the old French colonial occupation of Viet Nam.  THE SAME KIND OF WAR 
AS THE US GOT HOOKED INTO IN VIET NAM IS WHAT IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN!
The Bushwackers would have us believe that One Man (who is all Arabs) could 
bring the US to its knees. That�s the same rhetoric the bourgeoisie run 
about Hitler. That it was one crazy individual who pitched the world into 
fascism and an international anti fascist war? They leave out of course, the 
forces that backed Hitler who are , in fact, still  in Germany functioning, 
e.g., the Krupps, &c
But as for the Terrorist Assault, the identity of Osama bin Laden, Why would 
the people who introduced the US to the real world of imperialist terror?
Who trained the Saudi pilots? Who gave the Afghani�s missiles? Who allowed 
bin Laden to make millions with his businesses as payback for services 
rendered? The factory in Sudan, Clinton attack destroyed,  (the bombing of 
Afghanistan),  when he was trying to draw attention from his antics in the 
Oral office, was bin Laden�s! Why did it need to be destroyed then?
THE FACT IS THAT BIN LADEN IS THE PRODUCT OF  A RECENT �TRINITY OF 
IMPERIALISM�  BUSH (the father), BUSH (the son), and THE CIA
(the unholy spooks).

THE CONTRADICTION BETWEEN A �SINGLE SUPER-POWER� & THE REST OF THE WORLD 
IMPERIALIST MOB!
Usually, the US intelligence network is complemented by the massive 
intelligence network of the English, Germans, French, Italians, Spanish, and 
their informants everywhere) but with Bush�s recent display of AMERICA 
FIRST, AMERICA ONLY  dangerously anachronistic and isolationist attitude 
towards US imperialists associates in Europe particularly, dismissing their 
advice, patronizing their requests, haughtily proclaiming the isolated 
invincibility of the US,  much like any �welching�: thief who doesn�t want 
to share his �take� (THE PRESIDENCY OF THE US) with his confederates, one 
gets the feeling that perhaps the lack of information  from the NATO sources 
is also a cold lesson being taught at the expense of thousands of dead 
Americans. (Especially since people have already been arrested in Hamburg, 
Germany!)

	BUSH ATTEMPT TO �END STATES� (THE NAZI ANNEXATION AND OCCUPATION) AND TURN 
THE MIDDLE EAST INTO AN AMERICAN OIL PLANTATION WILL BECOME A WORLD 
CONFLAGRATION.
	If  the unholy trinity�s PLANTATION STRATEGY  become so frenzied and 
concomitantly power and  greed driven that Bush orders the bombing not only 
of Afghanistan, Lebanon, Iraq, Libya, (the continued devastation by Sharon 
-led Israel of the Palestinians) but also SYRIA and IRAN and even so 
dangerously ill as to include the A-bomb holding Pakistani�s
	BUSH�S PREDICTED �UPTURN� OF THE US ECONOMY IS BASED ON INSTALLING A �WAR 
ECONOMY� IN THE U.S., OCCUPATION OF THE OIL PRODUCING NATIONS, PLUS, AT SOME 
POINT, THE IMPOSITION OF MARTIAL LAW  WHICH CONSTITUTIONALLY STRIPS AMERICAN 
CITIZENS OF CIVIL RIGHTS!
	UNITY AND STRUGGLES REPEATED CALLS FOR REVOLUTIONARIES TO UNITE, (in a  
Revolutionary Democratic United Front with Workers of All Nationalities , 
Farmers, Oppressed Nationalities and Democratic Petty Bourgeoisie and  where 
possible, temporally, National Bourgeoisie) AND HELP FORM A LEFT-BLOC OF 
POLITICAL STRUGGLE AGAINST US IMPERIALISM FOR PEOPLES DEMOCRACY IN THE 
US	and against Imperialism world wide cannot continue to fall on deaf ears. 
A MOVEMENT TO IMPEACH BUSH IS A MOVEMENT OF MASS EDUCATION, MOBILIZATION AND 
RESISTANCE. The backwardness of the petty bourgeois fake �left� must now be 
obvious to all but the completely uninformed or those so designated who 
continue to be in a poisonous state of denial. IT WAS THIS SEPARATION OF 
LIBERALISM FROM DEMOCRACY THAT HELPED THE BUSH RIGHT WIN COUP WHICH SEIZED 
POWER, AND NOW HAS BROUGHT US TO THE BRINK OF WORLD WAR AND ECONOMIC 
DISASTER.



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Post ID:2046
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-15 15:17:29
Subject:Palestinian Video (PASS THIS ON NOW!!!!)
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: dlj@...
Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [njfo] Palestinian Video (PASS THIS ON NOW!!!!)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 16:37:02 -0000

The media has been propping up a video that is supposed to depict
Palestinians dancing in the streets after the bombings on Tuesday.
Matt Drudge, Rush Limbaugh, Howard Stern, Sean Hannity, Curtis Sliwa
and other right wing propagandists have been using this on their
respective websites and radio shows using this to "rally the troops,"
so to speak. They have even said that Yassar Arafat has tried to keep
this video from coming out.

It is now believed that this video is a hoax.

If anyone has any doubts consider this. The video was ciruclating
about an hour and a half after the bombing, as evidenced by Matt
Drudge declaring on his website that Palestinians were dancing in the
streets  I personally saw the video about two hours after the
bombing. In it there were kids dancing in the streets. The video was
shot in the daytime. The West Bank is approx. 10 ahead of us. If this
was indeed shot at the time of the bombing the scenes should have
been IN THE DEAD OF NIGHT!

There are reports that this video was actually from 1993. If this is
true, the credibility of those promoting this video needs to be
seriously questioned, and their ability to do this has to be
diminished significantly. People need to know this. Let the
propagandists explain themselves.

Daryle Lamont Jenkins
One People's Project


To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@...
To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: njfo-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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Post ID:2047
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-15 17:47:16
Subject:cincy cop trial begins
Message:

                     Trial to begin in Cincinnati police
                     shooting that prompted riots

                     By JOHN NOLAN
                     The Associated Press
                     9/15/01 3:08 PM

                     CINCINNATI (AP) -- The trial of a white police officer 
whose shooting of an
                     unarmed black man set off three nights of rioting in 
April is again focusing
                     the city's attention on often-strained community-police 
relations.

                     Officer Stephen Roach, 27, was indicted in May on 
misdemeanor charges
                     of negligent homicide and obstruction of official 
business in the shooting
                     death of Timothy Thomas, 19.

                     His trial is scheduled to begin Monday.

                     Thomas' death touched off the city's worst racial 
violence since the Rev.
                     Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination in 1968, and 
prompted a citywide
                     dusk-to-dawn curfew to restore order. Dozens of people 
were injured and
                     more than 800 were arrested.

                     Violence surged in the months after the riots as police 
held back for fear
                     of being accused of racism, the police union says.

                     The shooting led the mayor to request a federal 
investigation of the city's
                     police department, which is still under way.

                     Roach told his union that he thought Thomas was 
reaching for a gun.
                     Police said Thomas was wanted on traffic violations and 
charges of
                     fleeing police.

                     Roach agreed to have the trial heard without a jury. 
Municipal Court
                     Judge Ralph E. Winkler is expected to hear testimony 
through Friday,
                     then may take the case under review and issue his 
verdict later.

                     Roach has pleaded innocent. If convicted of both 
charges, he would face
                     no more than nine months in jail and could be placed on 
probation.

                     Thomas was the 15th black male to die at the hands of 
the police since
                     1995. Police union officials have noted that 10 of 
those men fired or
                     pointed guns at police officers, and two drove at or 
dragged officers from
                     cars.

                     Two other Cincinnati officers await trial in October on 
charges resulting
                     from the death of another black man, Roger Owensby Jr., 
who died in
                     November when police took him into custody. The county 
coroner
                     concluded that Owensby died of suffocation. 
Investigators said the death
                     could have been caused by a choke hold or when officers 
fell on top of
                     him on the pavement.

                     Black leaders insist that police, who also face a 
lawsuit accusing the
                     department of harassing black residents, must work 
harder to improve
                     relations.

                     The Rev. Damon Lynch III, a black clergyman who has 
been critical of the
                     police, said activists still want to see if justice 
will be done when officers
                     are accused of wrongdoing. That could be called into 
question if Roach
                     and the other officers are acquitted, he said.

                     "The officers could walk," Lynch said. "Is Cincinnati 
ready for that?"

                     Hamilton County Prosecutor Michael Allen, whose office 
obtained
                     convictions of more than 100 adults and juveniles on 
charges from the
                     April riots, said police will be alert for community 
tensions when the Roach
                     trial verdict is issued.

                     "You would hope citizens will let the system work and 
let justice be done,"
                     Allen said. "If some in the community choose to use 
this as an excuse to
                     violate the law, they will do it at their own peril."

                      Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may not be
                                 published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.

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Post ID:2049
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-16 17:15:49
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: Bush Presidency Seems to Gain Legitimacy
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by cliffsmith69@....

bait
 &
  switch

/-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\

\----------------------------------------------------------/

Bush Presidency Seems to Gain Legitimacy

By R. W. APPLE Jr.

 With the eyes of a nervous nation fixed upon him, George W. Bush
began coming of age as president this weekend.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/16/national/16ASSE.html?ex=1001674948&ei=1&en=dbb7cdda0dbe3fc0

/-----------------------------------------------------------------\

\-----------------------------------------------------------------/

HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters 
or other creative advertising opportunities with The 
New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson 
Racer at alyson@... or visit our online media 
kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo

For general information about NYTimes.com, write to 
help@....  

Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2050
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-16 15:09:06
Subject:DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "jamal al-din talib" <j_a_m_a_l@...>
To: vivaohio@..., pankay@..., nicci@..., 
margritty@...
Subject: this is a good one.
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 17:59:20 +0000

you're gonna love this one.


>Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 13:03:47 -0400
>Media Watch

Of The 'Dead Pilot' Who 'Crashed Into The World Trade Center'

Posted: 26 Jamad-u-Thani 1422, 14 September 2001

CNN Issues a Correction.

Here is a correction issued by CNN 
(http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/13/america.attack/)

"We would like to correct a report that appeared on CNN. Based on 
information from multiple law enforcement sources, CNN reported that Adnan 
Bukhari and Ameer Bukhari [-!!-] of Vero Beach Florida, were suspected to be 
two of the pilots who crashed planes into the World Trade Center. CNN later 
learned that Adnan Bukhari is still in Florida, where he was questioned by 
the FBI. We are sorry for the misinformation. A federal law enforcement 
source now tells CNN that Bukhari passed an FBI polygraph and is not 
considered a suspect. Through his attorney, Bukhari says that he is helping 
authorities. Ameer Bukhari died in a small plane crash last year."

Commentary: Of Big Stories and Minor Problems.

By: drive_the_zionazis_into_the_sea@...

Notice that CNN reported the matter correctly; it was "information from 
multiple law enforcement sources" that led them to post the false 
information that Adnan Bukhari was one of the hijacking pilots. And that he 
was dead after blowing up the World Trade Center. And that his brother Ameer 
was another hijacking pilot. And that he was dead after blowing up the World 
Trade Center, too.

A few minor problems: Adnan Bukhari is alive and well and lives in Florida. 
And Adnan Bukhari wasn't on any hijacked plane. And his brother Ameer 
already died in an unrelated small plane crash last year, making it rather 
difficult for him to be piloting a hijacked aircraft into the World Trade 
Center on September 11th of this year.

Not that consideration for things like "facts" have ever deterred American 
"multiple law enforcement sources" from falsely accusing others - like Usama 
bin Laden, America's answer to George Orwell's "Emmanuel Goldstein", the 
subject of the daily "two-minutes hate" in the first chapter of Orwell's 
"1984."

These "multiple law enforcement sources" who publicly proclaimed the guilt - 
and deaths - of two people who had nothing whatsoever to do with the World 
Trade Center bombing and who were nowhere near the scene are the same 
geniuses who expect us all to believe them when they claim that Usama bin 
Laden had something to do with it, too.

Last year, the US Justice Department claimed that Usama bin Laden was 
involved with the guy who sneaked into Seattle from Canada to blow up the 
silly "millenium."

Their "proof"? Well, you see, this guy who crossed into Seattle lived 
somewhere in Afghanistan in the 1970s.

And so did Usama bin Laden.

That was the sum total of the "evidence"!

This is what is peddled as "ties" to Usama bin Laden.

Quotable Quote:

"The purpose of the "For the Record", column is not to correct errors. It is 
to assure you that everything else published by the paper was correct."



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2051
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-16 15:11:33
Subject:DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE, Take II
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "jamal al-din talib" <j_a_m_a_l@...>
To: vivaohio@...
Subject: Fwd: False images from Mid-East :)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:11:37 +0000


> >
> >CNN USING 1991 FOOTAGE of celebrating Palistinians to manipulate you
> >(english) by Marcio 10:32pm Wed Sep 12 '01
> >
> >
> >. I'd like to add some ideas from here, down south. There's an
> >important point in the power of press, specifically the power of CNN.
> >
> >
> >All around the world we are subjected to 3 or 4 huge news
> >distributors, and one of them - as you well know - is CNN. Very well,
> >I guess all of you have been seeing (just as I've been) images from
> >this company. In particular, one set of images called my attencion:
> >the Palestinians celebrating the bombing, out on the streets, eating
> >some cake and making funny faces for the camera.
> >
> >
> >Well, THOSE IMAGES WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! Those are images of
> >Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait! It's simply
> >unacceptable that a super-power of cumminications as CNN uses images
> >which do not correspond to the reality in talking about so serious an
> >issue.
> >
> >
> >A teacher of mine, here in Brazil, has videotapes recorded in 1991,
> >with the very same images; he's been sending emails to CNN, Globo
> >(the major TV network in Brazil) and newspapers, denouncing what I
> >myself classify as a crime against the public opinion. If anyone of
> >you has access to this kind of files, serch for it. In the meanwhile,
> >I'll try to 'put my hands' on a copy of this tape.
> >
> >
> >But now, think for a moment about the impact of such images. Your
> >people is hurt, emotionally fragile, and this kind broadcast have
> >very high possibility of causing waves of anger and rage against
> >Palestinians. It's simply irresponsible to show images such as those.
> >Best regards, and the hope that everything is resolved for the best
> >of all of us.
>
>PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY ..



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2052
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-16 15:23:28
Subject:why did the nazi party burn the reichstag, 1933?
Message:

Reichstag Fire

They who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.


January 30, 1933

Weimar Republic President Paul von Hindenburg appoints Adolph Hitler 
Chancellor.

February 27, 1933

The German Parliament (Reichstag) burns down. A dazed Dutch Communist named 
Marinus van der Lubbe is found at the scene and charged
with arson. [He is later found guilty and executed].

February 28, 1933

President Hindenburg and Chancellor Hitler invoke Article 48 of the Weimar 
Constitution, which permits the suspension of civil liberties in time of 
national emergency. This Decree of the Reich President for the Protection of 
the People and State abrogates the following constitutional protections:

     Free expression of opinion
     Freedom of the press
     Right of assembly and association
     Right to privacy of postal and electronic communications
     Protection against unlawful searches and seizures
     Individual property rights

A supplemental decree creates the SA (Storm Troops) and SS (Special 
Security) Federal police agencies.

Who Did It?

Historians do not agree on who is actually responsible for the Reichstag 
Fire: van der Lubbe acting alone -- a Communist plot -- or the Nazis 
themselves in order to create an incident. Writers such as Klaus P. Fischer 
feel that most likely the Nazis were involved.

But regardless of who actually planned and executed the fire, it is clear 
that the Nazis immediately took advantage of the situation in order to 
advance their cause at the expense of civil rights. The Decree enabled the 
Nazis to ruthlessly suppress opposition in the upcoming election.

March 5, 1933

National elections give Nazis 44% plurality in the Reichstag. Herman G�ring 
[who later played a central role in the Nazi government and war
effort] declares that there is no further need for State governments.

Over the next few weeks, each of the lawful Weimar State governments falls 
to the same ruse:

     Local Nazi organizations instigate disorder;
     The disorder is quelled by replacing the elected state government by 
appointed Nazi Reich Commissioners.

March 24, 1933

The Reichstag passes the Law for Terminating the Suffering of People and 
Nation , also known as the Enabling Law , essentially granting
Adolph Hitler dictatorial power.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2053
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-16 16:47:06
Subject:fight, dont hide!
Message:

Defeat Terrorism & Imperialism with More Revolutionary Democracy!
Prime Suspect: Bush/CIA &co!

We first stand with all victims of the recent terror attacks & insist 
capture of perpetrators.
Service workers, clerks, secretaries, food workers, custodians, maintenance, 
visitors, firemen, cops-these are many of the dead & wounded.

Terrorism, like anarchism, undermines the conscious, productive, & 
disciplined peoples' democratic struggle against monopoly 
capital/imperialism.
What is needed is organization & education, democratic revolutionary 
struggle & unity.
Impeach Bush Now! & Defeat All Republicans (Schundler)!

The illegitimate Bush regime & allied international corporate imperialist 
web (WTO, IMF, World Bank�) were tremendously isolated following the stolen 
election, the US/Israeli dis of World Racism Forum in So.Africa & mass 
protests of WTO in Genoa, Italy, &c.

Bush now is given carte blanche $billions to shoot em up, while New 
Brunswick pre-schoolers are turned away for "lack of facilities" & await 
"trailer classrooms".

The attacks on US citizens soup Bush aggression & promise fascist martial 
law powers: the absolute elimination of Democratic Freedoms here and 
Blitzkreig War abroad--Terrorism serves Imperialism.

Before Hitler cd jump, 1st he burned the Reichstag (1933), blamed the Reds, 
outlawed  opposition, &declared himself Supreme Leader (to 'protect the 
people').
Remember: Bush1 was head of the CIA, best equipped to carry out this
synchronized slaughter, unless you think Oswald did the job alone�

Bush/Cheney/CIA hoods demand 'evil Arabs did it! w/ box cutters(!) &red 
bandannas...' (But have charged nobody, with all their 'evidence'!)
Like NB Pimps Marshall &Chinchilla sd '98 'We was shot by one of them
Remsen Ave. Boys' & dropped $10G bounty on heads of NB Black Youth.
As diversion from their own crimes--convicted, sentenced & still on the 
street!

Fight, Don't Hide!  Intensify Democratic Struggle!
Smash Schundler, Vote McGreasy, Nov. election!
Put RasBaraka in Newark City Council, May '02!
Seize New Brunswick, Nov. '02-mayor, 2 council seats, elected board of 
education!

Join the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign: meet NB library12:00  1st Sat in 
October.

Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy

contact Cliff Smith 732.214.8828   can_bush@...


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2054
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-16 19:17:55
Subject:BBC Chief Sorry Over Anti-US TV Audience
Message:

BBC Chief Sorry Over Anti-US TV Audience


Updated: Sun, Sep 16 7:46 AM EDT

LONDON (Reuters) - The head of the British Broadcasting Corporation, Greg 
Dyke, apologized Saturday for broadcasting a live discussion program in 
which audience members blamed U.S. foreign policy for Tuesday's terror 
attacks. More than 2,000 viewers complained after seeing the former U.S. 
Ambassador to Britain, Philip Lader, brought close to tears after attempts 
to express his sadness over the attacks were shouted down by people 
expressing anti-American views.


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2055
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-17 01:35:39
Subject:Re: [coalitionforjustice] fight, dont hide!
Message:

keith joseph says anarchists are leading the struggle against the world 
bank& imf.  and that is why SWORD's criticism (specifically 3rd paragraph) 
is wrong - though he had none to offer, odd from a communist?

it is an outright lie that the anarchists are leading the struggle against 
imperialism! The majority of protestors at these conferences are not even 
anarchists - let alone those that understand to organize their international 
revolutionary line locally throughout the community, such as the elected 
school board campaign and ras baraka for newark council. the peoples local 
and community organization against imperialism is 1000X more productive than 
a one day or weak protest. the ruling class has already won the street war - 
didn't marx say that over 100 years ago? that we should organize locally to 
seize political office, isn't that what Unity & Struggle has authored?

everywhere keith goes he joins the strongest tide within "the movement" 
against the now members of SWORD

in a united front the people & organizations come together but our 
tendencies do not cease. that is why we must embrace debates and criticisms 
- we are willing to prove our case. to agree and state that i cannot 
criticize a member of the anti-war movement, which is what those that 
initially disagreed with paragraph 3 stated, is wrong and hazardous to Unity 
& Struggle - the practice -

other than this development all engagements during tonight's speak out wear 
visibly productive. and we continue with -

speak out monday september 17 8:00pm brower commons
strategy meeting tuesday september 18 6:00pm NB library guest house

Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy

Defeat Terrorism & Imperialism with More Revolutionary Democracy!
Prime Suspect: Bush/CIA &co!

We first stand with all victims of the recent terror attacks & insist
capture of perpetrators. Service workers, clerks, secretaries, food workers, 
custodians, maintenance, visitors, firemen, cops-these are many of the dead 
& wounded.

Terrorism, like anarchism, undermines the conscious, productive, &
disciplined peoples' democratic struggle against monopoly
capital/imperialism. What is needed is organization & education, democratic 
revolutionary struggle & unity. Impeach Bush Now! & Defeat All Republicans 
(Schundler)!

The illegitimate Bush regime & allied international corporate imperialist 
web (WTO, IMF, World Bank�) were tremendously isolated following the stolen 
election, the US/Israeli dis of World Racism Forum in So.Africa & mass 
protests of WTO in Genoa, Italy, &c.

Bush now is given carte blanche $billions to shoot em up, while New
Brunswick pre-schoolers are turned away for "lack of facilities" & await 
"trailer classrooms".

The attacks on US citizens soup Bush aggression & promise fascist martial 
law powers: the absolute elimination of Democratic Freedoms here and 
Blitzkreig War abroad--Terrorism serves Imperialism.

Before Hitler cd jump, 1st he burned the Reichstag (1933), blamed the Reds, 
outlawed  opposition, &declared himself Supreme Leader (to 'protect the 
people').

Remember: Bush1 was head of the CIA, best equipped to carry out this
synchronized slaughter, unless you think Oswald did the job alone�

Bush/Cheney/CIA hoods demand 'evil Arabs did it! w/ box cutters(!) &red
bandannas...' (But have charged nobody, with all their 'evidence'!)
Like NB Pimps Marshall &Chinchilla sd '98 'We was shot by one of them
Remsen Ave. Boys' & dropped $10G bounty on heads of NB Black Youth.
As diversion from their own crimes--convicted, sentenced & still on the
street!

Fight, Don't Hide!  Intensify Democratic Struggle!
Smash Schundler, Vote McGreasy, Nov. election!
Put RasBaraka in Newark City Council, May '02!
Seize New Brunswick, Nov. '02-mayor, 2 council seats, elected board of
education!

Join the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign: meet NB library12:00  1st Sat in 
October.

Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy

contact Cliff Smith 732.214.8828   can_bush@...


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2057
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-17 14:49:25
Subject:anti US imperialist war
Message:

Speak Out Against US Imperialist War
Defend Rutgers Students, Staff, Administration
Brower Commons 8:00pm Today-Monday
@Rutgers College Ave.

Strategy Meeting Against US Imperialist War
New Brunswick Library 6:30pm
Guest House

Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
RU Students for Peace
contact - can_bush@... rustudentsforpeace@...
732.586.5535 joesmith

so far two people dead as a result of white supremacist aggression here in 
the united states. killed in isolated incidents these activities must be 
countered by any organization opposed to war.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2058
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-17 17:28:17
Subject:White Supremacy claims victim!
Message:

Ex-Milltown Muslim shot to death in Texas

               Published in the Home News Tribune 9/17/01

               By SCOTT ALBRIGHT
               STAFF WRITER

               MILLTOWN: A former Milltown resident, who was born in 
Pakistan, was shot to death in a grocery store in Dallas Saturday night in 
what may have been a backlash incident related to Tuesday's terrorist 
attacks on the United States.

               The apparent murder of Pakistan-born Waquar Hasan in the 
Dallas, Texas, grocery store he co-owned may have been perpetrated as 
misplaced revenge for the recent attacks in New York and Washington, D.C., a 
Dallas police investigator said yesterday.

               Local authorities notified the FBI because of the 
possibilitiy, and the federal agency has joined the investigation. police 
said.

               Hasan, co-owner of Mom's Grocery in Dallas' east side, was 
found dead inside the store at 10:20 p.m. Saturday by a customer, Dallas 
police said. Hasan, his wife and four daughters are Muslims born in Pakistan 
who emigrated to the United States in 1990, family members said. Hasan's 
wife and daughters still live in Milltown.

               Sgt. Larry Lewis of the Dallas Police Department's Homicide 
Unit said Hasan was found with a single bullet wound to his head. An initial 
inventory of the grocery store and check-cashing business Hasan also 
co-owned showed no merchandise or cash missing.

               Lewis said Hasan's store is within a high crime area. But the 
fact that nothing valuable appears to have been stolen has led
investigators to suspect Hasan may have been killed because of his Asian 
heritage.

               'We're not going to dismiss that possibility just right now," 
Lewis said. "We're searching for a motive on that. I will say in some 
situations there will be a person who will enter an establishment to commit 
a robbery and for whatever reason they'll shoot a person and flee without 
taking anything.

               "But yes, we're studying all possible angles on this."

               While Lewis would not comment further on evidence related to 
the case, Hasan's brother-in-law, Zahid Ghani, of North           Brunswick, 
said officers told him Hasan still had $300 in cash in his wallet after his 
attacker fled.

               Lewis said yesterday authorities have no suspects or 
witnesses in the case. The case is being investigated jointly with the FBI, 
he said.

               Yesterday, more than 100 of Hasan's friends and family 
members visited his one-story, gray and blue-shuttered home in
               Milltown. A memorial service was scheduled for 1 p.m. today 
at the Islamic Society of Central New Jersey in South Brunswick.

               "I don't want to see this, what people are doing against 
Muslims," said Hasan-family friend and Edison resident Shaheen Jilani,       
        42. "We are part of you. We are against terrorism. We are trying to 
help people."

               Friends and family members repeatedly described Hasan as 
"loving," "caring," and "generous." Over recent years, Hasan's               
daughters said their father has allowed his convertible Nissan 240 SX to be 
used during North Brunswick's annual Columbus               Day parade.

               As part of her daily commute to Wall Street as a National 
Bank of Pakistan employee, Jilani said she was on the first floor of one
               of the World Trade Center's twin towers when the first 
airliner crashed into the structure Tuesday. Jilani escaped the doomed       
         skyscaper.

               While also a co-owner of the Exxon gas station on Livingston 
Avenue and Hermann Road in North Brunswick, Hasan decided               to 
move and help open a grocery store and check-cashing business in Dallas this 
spring, Ghani said. The family lived in North               Brunswick for 
several years before moving to Milltown, he said.

               Hasan's wife and daughters, who range in age from 10 to 17 
and attend local public schools, were expecting to join Hasan in
               Dallas in December, Hasan's brother-in-law said. The Hasan 
girls last saw their father about four months ago just before Hasan took off 
for Dallas from Newark International Airport, he said.

               "Why did he have to die? It's not like he told them to crash 
the planes," cried Hasan's 16-year-old daughter Asna yesterday.              
  "This is our country too! Do we not live here?"

               Hasan's brother said that yesterday, ironically, he and two 
friends of Middle Eastern descent were pulled over by North               
Brunswick and New Brunswick police as the three were driving on Livingston 
Avenue.

               Choudhry Hasan, 47, of North Brunswick, said he had met his 
two friends briefly at the Burger King on Livingston Avenue               
yesterday morning to disclose the news of his brother's death. After 
dropping off one of the men's van at the local Exxon station owned by the 
Hasan brothers, the three were on their way to discuss funeral arrangements 
when at least six police cars pulled               their vehicle over, 
Choudhry Hasan said.

               Choudhry Hasan, a U.S. citizen who said he's been in this 
country 35 years, said officers explained to him police had received a call 
from someone fearing the three men had left a suspicious package at the 
fast-food restaurant.

               Choudhry Hasan said police told him he "looked like a 
terrorist" because he has a several-inch long beard and because he was       
         wearing a white gown-like shirt ending below his knees along with a 
white knit cap.

               Upon reviewing the three men's identification, police were 
"very nice" and released them without charges, Choudhry Hasan said.
               One of the officers recognized the local gas-stationowner, he 
added.

               North Brunswick Interim Police Director Michael Moriarty 
confirmed that New Brunswick police pulled over Hasan's car after            
    receiving a call describing suspicions of an abandoned package and the 
license plate on Hasan's car. The caller also noted that the van had been 
parked by the gas station, Moriarty said.

               The interim police director said New Brunswick had alerted 
North Brunswick officers to the incident but Moriarty wasn't sure if North 
Brunswick officers were involved in the traffic stop.

               While saying yesterday's stop was "proper police action" 
considering the caller's tip, Moriarty said he is also aware of the          
      temptation to profile people who appear to be of Middle Eastern 
descent, given recent events.

               "We have to be careful as law-enforcement officials that we 
don't buy into overzealousness," Moriarty said. "We have to be               
impartial and evaluate the situation as an honest broker to make sure 
everyone's treated fairly."

               Neither Waquar Hasan nor his wife or children are American 
citizens, his brother-in-law said. Waquar Hasan had been living in the 
United States on a visa and since that expired several years ago had been in 
the process of receiving permanent-resident  status, he said.

               Waquar Hasan also owned a gas station in Middletown before 
selling it more than a year ago, Ghani said.

               The leadership of East Brunswick-based Pakistan Center USA 
has been busy attending various local candlelight vigils to show             
   their support for victims of Tuesday's disasters and show their 
opposition to terrorism, said the group's president, Khalid               
Luqman.

               The extremists responsible for the World Trade Center bombing 
are not representative of the Muslim community as a whole,               
Luqman stressed.

               "As a community we are very much concerned," Luqman said. "We 
understand the rage of the American nation again Muslims,               but 
I think we are getting the wrong people" in randomly attacking Muslim 
civilians.

               Since Tuesday's attacks, authorities across the country have 
reported a number of attacks and threats against people of Middle            
    Eastern descent.

               Among them: an Indian-immigrant gas-station owner shot to 
death at a Mesa, Ariz. gas-station Saturday; an attack on a               
Moroccan gas-station attendant in Palos Heights, Ill.; an attempt to run 
over a Pakistani woman in a parking lot in Huntington,               N.Y.; 
and the arrest of an armed man who allegedly set fire to a Seattle mosque.

               Luqman called on Americans not to misdirect their anger 
toward people of Middle Eastern heritage who are here only to share in
               the American way-of-life -- not to destroy it.

               "We are a very peaceful people. We came here to work, to make 
some money, to make a good living, and that's what we are
               doing," Luqman said. "Ninety-nine-percent of the people are 
innocent just like the people here."

               The Associated Press contributed to this story.

               Scott Albright: (732) 565-7255. E-mail albright@...

               from the Home News Tribune

               Published: September 17, 2001

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2059
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-17 18:26:56
Subject:wtc security chief (ex-fed) rubbed out 2wks ago...
Message:

&the plot thickens...
cs

Fateful link with bin Laden

                     09/17/01

                     BY DAVID KINNEY
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

                     Former FBI Special Agent John O'Neill spent the last 
eight years of his life
                     chasing Osama bin Laden.

                     He and the agents he led dug for clues in New York and 
Yemen, Kenya
                     and Tanzania, tracking the Saudi millionaire with 
satellites and cell phone
                     taps. He searched for bin Laden's fingerprints on the 
bombings of U.S.
                     embassies and the suicide attack on the USS Cole. And 
he warned top
                     brass in Washington that terrorists could "attack us 
here if they choose
                     to."

                     Barely two weeks after giving up his maddening chase, 
the agent is
                     believed to have died in just such an attack -- one 
investigators think was
                     masterminded by his longtime nemesis.

                     Odder still, O'Neill's apparent death came in the days 
after he started his
                     new job: As director of security for the World Trade 
Center.

                     "I don't know how you write John's story without having 
bin Laden feel
                     good about himself," former agent Warren Flagg said 
this week as he
                     drove into Manhattan. "My heart is crushed."

                     O'Neill left the FBI last month after a career that 
began back in 1972
                     when he guided tours of the agency's headquarters in 
Washington. He
                     rose to counterterrorism chief in New York, commanding 
hundreds of
                     people in one of the largest FBI field offices 
following the 1993 bombing
                     of the World Trade Center.

                     He ran the high-profile investigations into the October 
suicide bombing of
                     the USS Cole, in which 17 sailors died when terrorists 
detonated a skiff
                     full of explosives, and 1998's attacks on the U.S. 
embassies in Africa,
                     which killed hundreds and injured thousands.

                     O'Neill's reputation spread worldwide. Scotland Yard 
counterintelligence
                     chief Alan Frye once lauded the agent.

                     "I wouldn't want to be the terrorist he was hunting," 
Frye said. "I've seen
                     him move heaven and earth."

                     "John was the last of his breed," said Flagg, who first 
met O'Neill as an
                     FBI clerk 30 years ago, went through training with him 
in Quantico, Va.,
                     and worked with him on and off through the years. "He 
was a
                     street-agent boss. He understood how to investigate a 
case. He
                     understood how to put a case together from A to Z."

                     In New York in the 1990s, that meant building a case 
against bin Laden.

                     Flagg said O'Neill was frustrated by a lack of 
resources dedicated to the
                     battle, and competing strategies from the bureaucracies 
of the FBI, the
                     CIA and the State Department.

                     O'Neill's style was aggressive: "In the back of his 
mind, he was more of a
                     street cop," said Jack Townsend, an ex-deputy police 
commissioner in
                     Chicago who worked closely with O'Neill in the late 
1980s.

                     O'Neill clashed with the U.S. Ambassador to Yemen, 
Barbara Bodine,
                     during the investigation into the USS Cole bombing in 
October, and she
                     barred him from the country, fearing he and his agents 
would threaten
                     U.S.-Yemeni relations. O'Neill had fought with Yemeni 
officials over their
                     failure to cooperate with the investigation -- enough 
to earn him and his
                     hard-charging associates the nickname, "Rambos."

                     When the United States pulled FBI agents out of Yemen 
following threats
                     from bin Laden, Flagg said, O'Neill didn't want to go.

                     "He was the consummate general. If you're in harm's 
way, I'll be there,
                     too," Flagg explained.

                     Colleagues called O'Neill one of the FBI's smartest 
agents -- and one who
                     "would back you up," in Flagg's words.

                     "He was a guy who'd come to you and say, 'What do you 
need?' He
                     wasn't sitting behind a desk saying, 'What have you got 
for me?' It was,
                     'What can I do for you?'" Flagg said. "That's the way 
I'll always remember
                     him."

                     But his career ended amid trouble: The Washington Post 
reported that
                     O'Neill exited during an internal investigation into 
allegations he left a
                     briefcase full of classified documents in a hotel room 
in Tampa, Fla., last
                     year.

                     After Tuesday's attacks on the World Trade Center, 
Flagg said witnesses
                     reported seeing O'Neill running back into the building 
to rescue people
                     trapped inside.

                     "That would be a John O'Neill move," Townsend said, 
"coming out, and
                     then going back in there to help someone."

                     The Associated Press contributed to this story.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2060
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-17 19:00:29
Subject:re: wtc sec.chief alert-article less than clear.
Message:


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2061
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-17 19:43:50
Subject:which 'trend' embraces anarchism, u&s?
Message:

u&s accuses sword of promoting anarchy (new u&s), by way of deflecting our 
political criticisms of them.

(for instance, apparently, that they actually will embrace, or at minimum, 
defend, anarchism, but make no such gesture to women, judging from their 
'united front' graphic, cover-new u&s)

u&s representative keith joseph-
"It is best to criticize people's actions not(!) what they say. If the
anarchists do something that I think is wrong I will criticize it."

(but 'not what they say', i.e. the ideology of anarchism.) cs

kj-
"Anarchists are leading(!) the "anti-globilization movement", they are 
fighting a significant aspect of imperialism, to just dismiss that is 
arrogant and ignorant...It was a mistake to compare anarchists with 
terrorists. You have isolated yourself from the bulk of young organizers 
already."

keith refers to this statement in our recent leaflet, full text below:

"Terrorism, like anarchism, undermines the conscious, productive, &
disciplined peoples' democratic struggle against monopoly
capital/imperialism. What is needed is organization & education, democratic 
revolutionary struggle & unity."

the record of destructive tactics by anarchist elements, even recently at 
wto protests, is indisputable. as is the anti-working class relationship 
between terrorism & anarchy, both ultimately serving bourgeois interests.

cs


>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, rustudentsforpeace@...,        
>njfo@egroups.com, onepeoplesproject@egroups.com, amirib@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Attacking Anarchist?
>Date: Tue, 08 Jan 1980 03:10:46 -0500
>
>Joe,
>Your flyer compares anarchists to the terrorists that attacked the WTC. 
>That is not
>only stupid it alienates everyone that you were working with. How can that 
>be
>productive? It is best to criticize people's actions not what they say. If 
>the
>anarchists do something that I think is wrong I will criticize it. 
>Anarchists are
>leading the "anti-globilization movement", they are fighting a significant 
>aspect of
>imperialism, to just dismiss that is arrogant and ignorant...
>It was a mistake to compare anarchists with terrorists.
>You have isolated yourself from the bulk of young organizers already. 
>Persisting in
>this way will only isolate you more, it has nothing to do with me. Though I 
>will
>continue to draw a line of demarcation between SWORD and Unity & Struggle. 
>We have
>many disagreements.
>We are facing a very dangerous situation and there is certainly the 
>potential that
>Bush led Imperialism will push the world towards fascism. Your line is the 
>same as the
>Trots who attcked the Communists from within the United Front in Spain 
>opening the way
>for Franco. Before you deny it, try learning about it. Practice your line 
>if you want.
>Don't blame me for your failure isolation.
>
>Keith
>
>PS. This is the only response that I will make to  this point on e-mail. We 
>don't have
>time.
>
>joseph smith wrote:
>
> > keith joseph says anarchists are leading the struggle against the world
> > bank& imf.  and that is why SWORD's criticism (specifically 3rd 
>paragraph)
> > is wrong - though he had none to offer, odd from a communist?
> >
> > it is an outright lie that the anarchists are leading the struggle 
>against
> > imperialism! The majority of protestors at these conferences are not 
>even
> > anarchists - let alone those that understand to organize their 
>international
> > revolutionary line locally throughout the community, such as the elected
> > school board campaign and ras baraka for newark council. the peoples 
>local
> > and community organization against imperialism is 1000X more productive 
>than
> > a one day or weak protest. the ruling class has already won the street 
>war -
> > didn't marx say that over 100 years ago? that we should organize locally 
>to
> > seize political office, isn't that what Unity & Struggle has authored?
> >
> > everywhere keith goes he joins the strongest tide within "the movement"
> > against the now members of SWORD
> >
> > in a united front the people & organizations come together but our
> > tendencies do not cease. that is why we must embrace debates and 
>criticisms
> > - we are willing to prove our case. to agree and state that i cannot
> > criticize a member of the anti-war movement, which is what those that
> > initially disagreed with paragraph 3 stated, is wrong and hazardous to 
>Unity
> > & Struggle - the practice -
> >
> > other than this development all engagements during tonight's speak out 
>wear
> > visibly productive. and we continue with -
> >
> > speak out monday september 17 8:00pm brower commons
> > strategy meeting tuesday september 18 6:00pm NB library guest house
> >
> > Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
> >
> > Defeat Terrorism & Imperialism with More Revolutionary Democracy!
> > Prime Suspect: Bush/CIA &co!
> >
> > We first stand with all victims of the recent terror attacks & insist
> > capture of perpetrators. Service workers, clerks, secretaries, food 
>workers,
> > custodians, maintenance, visitors, firemen, cops-these are many of the 
>dead
> > & wounded.
> >
> > Terrorism, like anarchism, undermines the conscious, productive, &
> > disciplined peoples' democratic struggle against monopoly
> > capital/imperialism. What is needed is organization & education, 
>democratic
> > revolutionary struggle & unity. Impeach Bush Now! & Defeat All 
>Republicans
> > (Schundler)!
> >
> > The illegitimate Bush regime & allied international corporate 
>imperialist
> > web (WTO, IMF, World Bank�) were tremendously isolated following the 
>stolen
> > election, the US/Israeli dis of World Racism Forum in So.Africa & mass
> > protests of WTO in Genoa, Italy, &c.
> >
> > Bush now is given carte blanche $billions to shoot em up, while New
> > Brunswick pre-schoolers are turned away for "lack of facilities" & await
> > "trailer classrooms".
> >
> > The attacks on US citizens soup Bush aggression & promise fascist 
>martial
> > law powers: the absolute elimination of Democratic Freedoms here and
> > Blitzkreig War abroad--Terrorism serves Imperialism.
> >
> > Before Hitler cd jump, 1st he burned the Reichstag (1933), blamed the 
>Reds,
> > outlawed  opposition, &declared himself Supreme Leader (to 'protect the
> > people').
> >
> > Remember: Bush1 was head of the CIA, best equipped to carry out this
> > synchronized slaughter, unless you think Oswald did the job alone�
> >
> > Bush/Cheney/CIA hoods demand 'evil Arabs did it! w/ box cutters(!) &red
> > bandannas...' (But have charged nobody, with all their 'evidence'!)
> > Like NB Pimps Marshall &Chinchilla sd '98 'We was shot by one of them
> > Remsen Ave. Boys' & dropped $10G bounty on heads of NB Black Youth.
> > As diversion from their own crimes--convicted, sentenced & still on the
> > street!
> >
> > Fight, Don't Hide!  Intensify Democratic Struggle!
> > Smash Schundler, Vote McGreasy, Nov. election!
> > Put RasBaraka in Newark City Council, May '02!
> > Seize New Brunswick, Nov. '02-mayor, 2 council seats, elected board of
> > education!
> >
> > Join the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign: meet NB library12:00  1st Sat 
>in
> > October.
> >
> > Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
> >
> > contact Cliff Smith 732.214.8828   can_bush@...
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2062
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-18 01:31:38
Subject:An Artilce by saul Landau
Message:

Thi is from the www.Stopnato.org listserve...


THE QUESTIONS NOT ASKED AS THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
By Saul Landau
Five days after the assault, Americans have ingested a TV, radio and print
diet of bombast, hyperbole and sheer nonsense. The messages from our elected
leaders, so-called experts and actors posing as TV anchors have stressed
retaliation and prevention after the perpetrators have accomplished their
mission. The bloody deed has been done. The wheels spinners may feel better
locking the proverbial barn door after the horses have escaped.

The war indeed began on September 11, but thus far few in power or the
limelight have asked about the enemy's objectives -- at least not publicly.
When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, the war had begun for the
domination of the Pacific and the resources of southeast Asia. But what do
the shadowy terrorists who struck our financial and military nerve centers
really want?

High officials label them as cowards, but their behavior points rather
toward heroic evil. They had a mission, took risks, plotted with cool and
calculating accuracy and then proved themselves more than willing to die for
their cause. But what exactly is their cause?

Shouldn't someone in power ask that question and have it debated before
rushing madly around the world with troops, missiles and extreme
belligerence?

The Senate, our supposedly deliberative body, didn't even discuss the
crisis, but simply voted, as did the House, massive amounts of money for
our confused president to use as he wishes. Congress will pour money into
military and police operations, under the curious rubric of security -- a
far cry from a thumb and a blanket -- while destroying the fiscal soundness
of our concrete security: social security and Medicare.

Bin Laden and his fiendish cult have thus far successfully detoured us away
from our agenda and into a world that the plotters know best. Threats abound
about bombing these Taliban brutes who harbor Bin Laden in Afghanistan back
into the Stone Age. How do you bomb people back into the stone age when they
already live in the Stone Age? How do you successfully threaten with death
those who welcome it?

How many of us are willing to admit that the September 11 events dramatize
a real clash of civilizations? That the attacks on the real and symbolic
nerve centers of world finance and militarism meant the real war against
corporate globalization -- a war that most of us anti-globalization types
want no part of.

We saw in Iran in 1979 and in post communist Afghanistan some signs of what
the purifiers of Islam want. It's not what I had in mind when I opposed
corporate globalization. I don't want my daughters to grow up uneducated and
trailing their husbands; nor do I want a theocracy dedicated to setting the
world back five centuries.

I also don't want to go to war with innocent people in the name of
responding to the September 11 stone cold killers. I think the time has come
to study, think, debate -- then, when the public has been informed and not
confused by a driven media, we should act, in concert with the rest of the
civilized world.

Saul Landau is the Director of Digital Media and International Outreach 
Programs for the College of Letters, Arts and Social SciencesCalifornia 
State Polytechnic University, Pomona3801 W. Temple AvenuePomona, CA 
91768tel: 909-869-3115fax: 909-869-4858http://www.saullandau.org




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2063
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-18 16:44:37
Subject:City starts rezoning effort
Message:

Hey! Check it out!  For once, appearing below, is an actual article 
(!) about New Brunswick here on the unofficial newsgroup of the New 
Brunswick People's Campaign!



City starts rezoning effort 


Published in the Home News Tribune 9/18/01 
By SHARON WATERS
STAFF WRITER

NEW BRUNSWICK: Uncertain about what a city developer plans to do with 
a prime piece of real estate, city officials took the first step 
yesterday to rezone a portion of the central business district to 
limit its use.

The zoning amendment, creating an office, cultural and governmental 
district, would include the First Union Bank branch on Bayard Street 
that developer Omar Boraie bought this summer, said Glenn Patterson, 
director of the city's department of planning, community and economic 
development.

Boraie has not said what he plans to do with the property, Patterson 
said.

Mayor Jim Cahill had wanted to convert the building into a small 
theater or other cultural project, but Boraie's purchase thwarted his 
plans.

The City Council will vote Thursday to refer to the Planning Board a 
zoning amendment that would create the new district. The council will 
consider the resolution during its regular meeting at 5 p.m. Thursday 
in City Hall. 

The amendment would prohibit a structure serving only as a parking 
deck although parking facilities could be incorporated into an office 
building under the amendment, Patterson said.

The possible area to be rezoned would be bordered by Bayard, 
Kirkpatrick and New streets and Livingston Avenue. George Street is 
zoned separately for retail use.

Although he would have owned the building before any amendment 
passed, Boraie would have no right to contest the zoning change, said 
Patterson.

"He only gets rights if he comes in with a plan and has approvals and 
so forth, and he's not at that point," said Patterson.

City Attorney William J. Hamilton Jr. said he had not researched the 
issue yet.

Cahill said earlier this month Boraie's purchase was a surprise to 
city officials, who had had discussions with the Cultural Center 
about development of a 800- to 1,000-seat theater on the site, which 
backs up to the State Theater, Cahill said.

Officials were "very concerned" about what might sit on the property 
next to City Hall and officials with the city and the New Brunswick 
Development Corp. had conversations with First Union about the 
building's fate, the mayor said.

First Union closed the Bayard Street branch next to City Hall in May. 
Boraie submitted the winning bid to purchase the bank and the sale 
closed this summer for about $1.8 million.

Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@...



from the Home News Tribune 

Published: September 18, 2001










-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2064
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-18 20:15:42
Subject:Fwd: WTC Suspects????????
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "jamal al-din talib" <j_a_m_a_l@...>
To: a_clarno@..., reforest@..., bernadette1976@..., 
cherryliu@..., redgrrrl500@..., tnkgrl7@..., 
jjw2006@..., lamisdeek1@..., margritty@..., 
vivaohio@..., info@..., nicci@..., 
egiapnilras@..., pankay@..., pfn@..., 
jcaliff@..., indpol@..., tdegloma@..., 
ymalsmadi@..., yasmin_kh@..., thepirategirls@...
Subject: WTC Suspects????????
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:18:01 +0000



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2065
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-18 20:16:43
Subject:Fwd: WTC Suspects????????
Message:

Saudi Suspects in U.S. Attacks Were Not in the U.S.




RIYADH, Sept 17 (IslamOnline & News Agencies) - U.S. officials in Riyadh 
offered Abdul Rahman Said al-Omari an official apology in the presence of 
Saudi interior ministry officials for including his name among the list of 
suspects in the U.S. terrorist attacks, news agencies reported Monday.

Omari, a pilot with Saudi Airlines, told the Saudi daily Al-Watan that he 
was amazed to see his name on the FBI's list of suspects allegedly involved 
in the attacks on the Pentagon and World Trade Center Tuesday, Agence 
France-Presse (AFP) reported.

Omari said he returned to Saudi Arabia in early September after undergoing 
training for one year in the United States, AFP added.

Meanwhile, the mother of another Saudi man, also suspected in the September 
11th attacks, said Monday that her son has been in Chechnya for two years 
with a relief committee operating in the tiny war-torn Muslim republic.

The mother of Ahmad Ibrahim al-Ghamdi told Al-Watan that her son had been 
studying engineering in the Saudi city of Mecca before departing for 
Chechnya, AFP reported.

Ibrahim, 20, the youngest child in a family of three sons and four 
daughters, had been in constant contact with his family from Chechnya, said 
his mother.

The father of Fayez Mohammad al-Shehri, yet another Saudi suspect, also told 
the daily that his son had also left for Chechnya two years ago with the 
relief committee.

"He was going with the relief committee," said Shehri's father, a school 
headmaster.

Notably, the preliminary lists of confirmed dead of American Airlines 
flights 11 and 77 and United flight 175, released September 13th by U.K. 
daily The Guardian, did not include any Arab or Middle Eastern names.

According to The Guardian, some 81 passengers and 11 crew members were on 
board when American Airlines flight AA11, en route from Boston to Los 
Angeles, crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center.

This is the preliminary, partial list of passengers aboard the flight.

Crew
Captain John Ogonowski
First Officer Thomas McGuinness
Barbara Arestegui
Jeffrey Collman
Sara Low
Karen Martin
Kathleen Nicosia
Betty Ong
Jean Roger
Dianne Snyder
Madeline Sweeney

Passengers
Anna Allison
David Angell
Lynn Angell
Seima Aoyama
Myra Aronson
Christine Barbuto
Carol Bouchard
Neilie Casey
Jeffrey Coombs
Tara Creamer
Thelma Cuccinello
Patrick Currivan
Andrew Currygreen
Brian Dale
David Dimeglio
Donald Ditullio
Albert Dominguez
Al Filipov
Carol Flyzik
Paul Friedman
Karleton Fyfe
Peter Gay
Linda George
Edmund Glazer
Page Hackel Farley
Peter Hashem
Robert Hayes
Edward Hennessy
John Hofer
Cora Holland
Nicholas Humber
John Jenkins
Charles Jones
Robin Kaplan
Barbara Keating
David Kovalcin
N Janis Lasden
Danny Lee
Daniel Lewin
Jeff Mladenik
Antonio Montoya
Laura Morabito
Mildred Naiman
Laurie Neira
Renee Newell
Jacqueline Norton
Robert Norton
Jane Orth
Thomas Pecorelli
Bernthia Perkins
Sonia Puopolo
David Retik
Philip Rosenweig
Richard Ross
Heath Smith
Douglas Stone
Xavier Suarez
James Trentini
Mary Trentini
Mary Wahlstrom
Kenneth Waldie
John Wenckus
Candace Williams
Christopher Zarba

Some 58 passengers and six crew members were on board when American Airlines 
flight AA77, en route from Washington Dulles to Los Angeles, crashed into 
the Pentagon, The Guardian reported. Again, no Arabic or Middle Eastern 
names appear on the list.

Crew
Captain Charles Burlingame
First Officer David Charlebois
Michele Heidenberger
Jennifer Lewis
Kenneth Lewis
Renee May

Passengers
Paul Ambrose
Yemen Betru
MJ Booth
Bernard Brown
Suzanne Calley
William Caswell
Sarah Clark
Asia Cottom
James Debeuneure
Rodney Dickens
Eddie Dillard
Charles Droz
Barbara Edwards
Charles Falkenberg
Zoe Falkenberg
Dana Falkenberg
James Ferguson
Budd Flagg
Dee Flagg
Richard Gabriel
Ian Gray
Stanley Hall
Bryan Jack
Steve Jacoby
Ann Judge
Chandler Keller
Yvonne Kennedy
Norma Khan
Karen Kincaid
Norma Langsteuerle
Dong Lee
Dora Menchaca
Chris Newton
Barbara Olson
Ruben Ornedo
Lisa Raines
Todd Reuben
John Sammartino
Diane Simmons
George Simmons
Mari Rae Sopper
Robert Speisman
Leonard Taylor
Sandra Teague
Leslie Whittington
John Yamnicky
Vicki Yancey
Shuyin Yang
Yuguag Zheng

Some 56 passengers and nine crewmembers were on board when United flight 
175, on route from Boston to Los Angeles, crashed into the south tower of 
the World Trade Center, The Guardian reported. No Arabic or Middle Eastern 
names appear here either.

Crew
Captain Victor Saracini
First Officer Michael Horrocks
Robert J Fangman
Amy N Jarret
Amy R King
Kathryn L Laborie
Alfred G Marchand
Michael C Tarrou
Alicia N Titus

Passengers
Alona Avraham
Garnet Bailey
Mark Bavis
Graham Berkeley
Klaus Bothe
David Brandhorst
Daniel Brandhorst
John Cahill
Christoffer Carstanjen
John Corcoran
Dorothy Dearaujo
Gloria Debarrera
Lisa Frost
Lynn Goodchild
Francis Grogan
Carl Hammond
Gerald Hardacre
Eric Hartono
James Hayden
Roberta Jalbert
Ralph Kershaw
Heinrich Kimmig
Brian Kinney
Maclovia Lopez
Marianne Macfarlane
Juliana Mccourt
Ruth Mccourt
Wolfgang Menzel
Shawn Nassaney
Marie Pappalardo
Patrick Quigley
Jesus Sanchez
Kathleen Shearer
Robert Shearer
Jane Simpkin
Brian Sweeney
Tim Ward
William Weems

Meanwhile, an official source at Saudi Airlines announced that Amer Kenfer, 
a Saudi aviation engineer whose name appeared on the list of passengers on 
board the United Airlines flight, en route from Boston to Los Angeles, is 
currently in Saudi Arabia.

Kenfer called Saudi Airlines from his home in Mecca once he heard his name 
announced as one of the passengers on the United flight, confirming that 
another passenger must have made use of the fact that foreigners in the U.S. 
are not asked to show their passports on domestic flights and had in this 
way used Kenfer's name.

The official Saudi source added that another Saudi suspect whose name was 
also included on the list of passengers who boarded the same United flight, 
Amir Bokhari - a Saudi Airlines pilot - had died two years ago during 
aviation training exercises.















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  ----------


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2066
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-18 20:25:09
Subject:BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack
Message:

READ THIS AND SPREAD THE WORD



>From: "Nurfette !" Subject: Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli 
>Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 
>14:59:56 +0000
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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         Previous   Next | Close

From :
"Nurfette !" <nurfette@...>

Subject :
Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day 
o f the Attack

Date :
Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:59:56 +0000


>From: "Khalid S. Khan" To: islamirc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ISLAMirc] 
>BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack 
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:02:36 +0000
>
>4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack
>
>Manar TV - Sept 17, 2001 < http://www.manartv.com/> With the announcement 
>of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New York, the international 
>media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to take advantage of the 
>incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work at the two towers. 
>Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those Israelis and 
>later it became clear that they remarkably did not show up in their jobs 
>the day the incident took place. No one talked about any Israeli being 
>killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to the 
>Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that day 
>based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the Shabak, the 
>fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on American officials who wanted 
>to know how the Israeli government learned about the incident before it 
>occurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing the U.S 
>authorities of the information it had. Suspicions had increased further 
>after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that the Shabak prevented 
>Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York and particularly to 
>the citys eastern coast to participate in a festival organized by the 
>Zionist organizations in support of the "Israel". Aharon Bernie, the 
>commentator at the newspaper, brought up the issue and came up with a 
>negative conclusion, saying no answer. He then asked about the clue behind 
>the Shabaks position in preventing Sharons participation, and again without 
>giving an answer. Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for having 
>his speech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of the 
>organization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change its position, but 
>his attempts were in vein. The next day after Sharons secretary officially 
>announced that Sharon would not participate the incident took place. For 
>its part, the Israeli Haaretz newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested five 
>Israelis four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming the 
>smoking skyline from the roof of their companys building. The FBI had 
>arrested the five for puzzling behavior. They are said to have been caught 
>videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and 
>mockery. =======
>
>
>VISIT: < HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET > WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE ANYWHERE 
>IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!!!!
>
>DEFINING APARTHEID
>
>Article 2 of the "International Convention of the Suppression and 
>Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid" of 1973 clearly defined the term 
>"crime of apartheid." This includes similar policies and practices of 
>segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa and which also 
>apply to inhuman acts committed for the purpose of the establishment and 
>maintaining of domination by one racial group over another. This includes 
>the deliberated imposition of living conditions calculated to cause 
>physical destruction and any legislative or other measures preventing a 
>racial group from full development of their political, social, economic and 
>cultural life. This is an accurate description of what the zionists are 
>doing to the Palestinian people with the full support of the USA.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________ Get your 
>FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2067
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-18 20:30:41
Subject:Re: [nbpc] which 'trend' embraces anarchism, u&s?
Message:

Cliff- The absence of Women's rep. on old U&S cover is my mistake, and I 
accept the criticism.  However, the error had already been noticed and 
corrected for subsequent issues.  Only a 100 or so of the first went out.  
-Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: amirib@..., jmodibo@..., njfo@egroups.com, 
coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, onepeoplesproject@egroups.com, 
nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] which 'trend' embraces anarchism, u&s?
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 23:43:50 +0000

u&s accuses sword of promoting anarchy (new u&s), by way of deflecting our
political criticisms of them.

(for instance, apparently, that they actually will embrace, or at minimum,
defend, anarchism, but make no such gesture to women, judging from their
'united front' graphic, cover-new u&s)

u&s representative keith joseph-
"It is best to criticize people's actions not(!) what they say. If the
anarchists do something that I think is wrong I will criticize it."

(but 'not what they say', i.e. the ideology of anarchism.) cs

kj-
"Anarchists are leading(!) the "anti-globilization movement", they are
fighting a significant aspect of imperialism, to just dismiss that is
arrogant and ignorant...It was a mistake to compare anarchists with
terrorists. You have isolated yourself from the bulk of young organizers
already."

keith refers to this statement in our recent leaflet, full text below:

"Terrorism, like anarchism, undermines the conscious, productive, &
disciplined peoples' democratic struggle against monopoly
capital/imperialism. What is needed is organization & education, democratic
revolutionary struggle & unity."

the record of destructive tactics by anarchist elements, even recently at
wto protests, is indisputable. as is the anti-working class relationship
between terrorism & anarchy, both ultimately serving bourgeois interests.

cs


 >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, rustudentsforpeace@...,
 >njfo@egroups.com, onepeoplesproject@egroups.com, amirib@...
 >Subject: [nbpc] Attacking Anarchist?
 >Date: Tue, 08 Jan 1980 03:10:46 -0500
 >
 >Joe,
 >Your flyer compares anarchists to the terrorists that attacked the WTC.
 >That is not
 >only stupid it alienates everyone that you were working with. How can that
 >be
 >productive? It is best to criticize people's actions not what they say. If
 >the
 >anarchists do something that I think is wrong I will criticize it.
 >Anarchists are
 >leading the "anti-globilization movement", they are fighting a significant
 >aspect of
 >imperialism, to just dismiss that is arrogant and ignorant...
 >It was a mistake to compare anarchists with terrorists.
 >You have isolated yourself from the bulk of young organizers already.
 >Persisting in
 >this way will only isolate you more, it has nothing to do with me. Though 
I
 >will
 >continue to draw a line of demarcation between SWORD and Unity & Struggle.
 >We have
 >many disagreements.
 >We are facing a very dangerous situation and there is certainly the
 >potential that
 >Bush led Imperialism will push the world towards fascism. Your line is the
 >same as the
 >Trots who attcked the Communists from within the United Front in Spain
 >opening the way
 >for Franco. Before you deny it, try learning about it. Practice your line
 >if you want.
 >Don't blame me for your failure isolation.
 >
 >Keith
 >
 >PS. This is the only response that I will make to  this point on e-mail. 
We
 >don't have
 >time.
 >
 >joseph smith wrote:
 >
 > > keith joseph says anarchists are leading the struggle against the world
 > > bank& imf.  and that is why SWORD's criticism (specifically 3rd
 >paragraph)
 > > is wrong - though he had none to offer, odd from a communist?
 > >
 > > it is an outright lie that the anarchists are leading the struggle
 >against
 > > imperialism! The majority of protestors at these conferences are not
 >even
 > > anarchists - let alone those that understand to organize their
 >international
 > > revolutionary line locally throughout the community, such as the 
elected
 > > school board campaign and ras baraka for newark council. the peoples
 >local
 > > and community organization against imperialism is 1000X more productive
 >than
 > > a one day or weak protest. the ruling class has already won the street
 >war -
 > > didn't marx say that over 100 years ago? that we should organize 
locally
 >to
 > > seize political office, isn't that what Unity & Struggle has authored?
 > >
 > > everywhere keith goes he joins the strongest tide within "the movement"
 > > against the now members of SWORD
 > >
 > > in a united front the people & organizations come together but our
 > > tendencies do not cease. that is why we must embrace debates and
 >criticisms
 > > - we are willing to prove our case. to agree and state that i cannot
 > > criticize a member of the anti-war movement, which is what those that
 > > initially disagreed with paragraph 3 stated, is wrong and hazardous to
 >Unity
 > > & Struggle - the practice -
 > >
 > > other than this development all engagements during tonight's speak out
 >wear
 > > visibly productive. and we continue with -
 > >
 > > speak out monday september 17 8:00pm brower commons
 > > strategy meeting tuesday september 18 6:00pm NB library guest house
 > >
 > > Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
 > >
 > > Defeat Terrorism & Imperialism with More Revolutionary Democracy!
 > > Prime Suspect: Bush/CIA &co!
 > >
 > > We first stand with all victims of the recent terror attacks & insist
 > > capture of perpetrators. Service workers, clerks, secretaries, food
 >workers,
 > > custodians, maintenance, visitors, firemen, cops-these are many of the
 >dead
 > > & wounded.
 > >
 > > Terrorism, like anarchism, undermines the conscious, productive, &
 > > disciplined peoples' democratic struggle against monopoly
 > > capital/imperialism. What is needed is organization & education,
 >democratic
 > > revolutionary struggle & unity. Impeach Bush Now! & Defeat All
 >Republicans
 > > (Schundler)!
 > >
 > > The illegitimate Bush regime & allied international corporate
 >imperialist
 > > web (WTO, IMF, World Bank�) were tremendously isolated following the
 >stolen
 > > election, the US/Israeli dis of World Racism Forum in So.Africa & mass
 > > protests of WTO in Genoa, Italy, &c.
 > >
 > > Bush now is given carte blanche $billions to shoot em up, while New
 > > Brunswick pre-schoolers are turned away for "lack of facilities" & 
await
 > > "trailer classrooms".
 > >
 > > The attacks on US citizens soup Bush aggression & promise fascist
 >martial
 > > law powers: the absolute elimination of Democratic Freedoms here and
 > > Blitzkreig War abroad--Terrorism serves Imperialism.
 > >
 > > Before Hitler cd jump, 1st he burned the Reichstag (1933), blamed the
 >Reds,
 > > outlawed  opposition, &declared himself Supreme Leader (to 'protect the
 > > people').
 > >
 > > Remember: Bush1 was head of the CIA, best equipped to carry out this
 > > synchronized slaughter, unless you think Oswald did the job alone�
 > >
 > > Bush/Cheney/CIA hoods demand 'evil Arabs did it! w/ box cutters(!) &red
 > > bandannas...' (But have charged nobody, with all their 'evidence'!)
 > > Like NB Pimps Marshall &Chinchilla sd '98 'We was shot by one of them
 > > Remsen Ave. Boys' & dropped $10G bounty on heads of NB Black Youth.
 > > As diversion from their own crimes--convicted, sentenced & still on the
 > > street!
 > >
 > > Fight, Don't Hide!  Intensify Democratic Struggle!
 > > Smash Schundler, Vote McGreasy, Nov. election!
 > > Put RasBaraka in Newark City Council, May '02!
 > > Seize New Brunswick, Nov. '02-mayor, 2 council seats, elected board of
 > > education!
 > >
 > > Join the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign: meet NB library12:00  1st Sat
 >in
 > > October.
 > >
 > > Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
 > >
 > > contact Cliff Smith 732.214.8828   can_bush@...
 > >
 > > _________________________________________________________________
 > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 > >
 > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 > >
 > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 > >
 > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2068
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-18 21:30:03
Subject:Re: [nbpc] City starts rezoning effort
Message:

missed you at the last pc mtg, flavio.

next one 12:00 sat, oct 6

what's up w/ the 'official newsgroups'?

cliff


>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] City starts rezoning effort
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 20:44:37 -0000
>
>Hey! Check it out!  For once, appearing below, is an actual article
>(!) about New Brunswick here on the unofficial newsgroup of the New
>Brunswick People's Campaign!
>
>
>
>City starts rezoning effort
>
>
>Published in the Home News Tribune 9/18/01
>By SHARON WATERS
>STAFF WRITER
>
>NEW BRUNSWICK: Uncertain about what a city developer plans to do with
>a prime piece of real estate, city officials took the first step
>yesterday to rezone a portion of the central business district to
>limit its use.
>
>The zoning amendment, creating an office, cultural and governmental
>district, would include the First Union Bank branch on Bayard Street
>that developer Omar Boraie bought this summer, said Glenn Patterson,
>director of the city's department of planning, community and economic
>development.
>
>Boraie has not said what he plans to do with the property, Patterson
>said.
>
>Mayor Jim Cahill had wanted to convert the building into a small
>theater or other cultural project, but Boraie's purchase thwarted his
>plans.
>
>The City Council will vote Thursday to refer to the Planning Board a
>zoning amendment that would create the new district. The council will
>consider the resolution during its regular meeting at 5 p.m. Thursday
>in City Hall.
>
>The amendment would prohibit a structure serving only as a parking
>deck although parking facilities could be incorporated into an office
>building under the amendment, Patterson said.
>
>The possible area to be rezoned would be bordered by Bayard,
>Kirkpatrick and New streets and Livingston Avenue. George Street is
>zoned separately for retail use.
>
>Although he would have owned the building before any amendment
>passed, Boraie would have no right to contest the zoning change, said
>Patterson.
>
>"He only gets rights if he comes in with a plan and has approvals and
>so forth, and he's not at that point," said Patterson.
>
>City Attorney William J. Hamilton Jr. said he had not researched the
>issue yet.
>
>Cahill said earlier this month Boraie's purchase was a surprise to
>city officials, who had had discussions with the Cultural Center
>about development of a 800- to 1,000-seat theater on the site, which
>backs up to the State Theater, Cahill said.
>
>Officials were "very concerned" about what might sit on the property
>next to City Hall and officials with the city and the New Brunswick
>Development Corp. had conversations with First Union about the
>building's fate, the mayor said.
>
>First Union closed the Bayard Street branch next to City Hall in May.
>Boraie submitted the winning bid to purchase the bank and the sale
>closed this summer for about $1.8 million.
>
>Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@...
>
>
>
>from the Home News Tribune
>
>Published: September 18, 2001
>
>
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2069
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-18 21:35:12
Subject:Re: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack
Message:

what's the source?
what's 'manar tv'?


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, poprogress@yahoogroups.com, 
>njfo@yahoogroups.com, onepeoplescoalition@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day 
>o f the Attack
>Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 00:25:09
>
>
>READ THIS AND SPREAD THE WORD
>
>
>
> >From: "Nurfette !" Subject: Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli
> >Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001
> >14:59:56 +0000
> >
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
>
>          Previous   Next | Close
>
>From :
>"Nurfette !" <nurfette@...>
>
>Subject :
>Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day
>o f the Attack
>
>Date :
>Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:59:56 +0000
>
>
> >From: "Khalid S. Khan" To: islamirc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ISLAMirc]
> >BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the 
>Attack
> >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:02:36 +0000
> >
> >4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack
> >
> >Manar TV - Sept 17, 2001 < http://www.manartv.com/> With the announcement
> >of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New York, the international
> >media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to take advantage of the
> >incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work at the two towers.
> >Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those Israelis and
> >later it became clear that they remarkably did not show up in their jobs
> >the day the incident took place. No one talked about any Israeli being
> >killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to the
> >Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that day
> >based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the Shabak, 
>the
> >fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on American officials who wanted
> >to know how the Israeli government learned about the incident before it
> >occurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing the U.S
> >authorities of the information it had. Suspicions had increased further
> >after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that the Shabak prevented
> >Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York and particularly 
>to
> >the citys eastern coast to participate in a festival organized by the
> >Zionist organizations in support of the "Israel". Aharon Bernie, the
> >commentator at the newspaper, brought up the issue and came up with a
> >negative conclusion, saying no answer. He then asked about the clue 
>behind
> >the Shabaks position in preventing Sharons participation, and again 
>without
> >giving an answer. Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for having
> >his speech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of the
> >organization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change its position, 
>but
> >his attempts were in vein. The next day after Sharons secretary 
>officially
> >announced that Sharon would not participate the incident took place. For
> >its part, the Israeli Haaretz newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested 
>five
> >Israelis four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming the
> >smoking skyline from the roof of their companys building. The FBI had
> >arrested the five for puzzling behavior. They are said to have been 
>caught
> >videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and
> >mockery. =======
> >
> >
> >VISIT: < HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET > WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE ANYWHERE
> >IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!!!!
> >
> >DEFINING APARTHEID
> >
> >Article 2 of the "International Convention of the Suppression and
> >Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid" of 1973 clearly defined the term
> >"crime of apartheid." This includes similar policies and practices of
> >segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa and which 
>also
> >apply to inhuman acts committed for the purpose of the establishment and
> >maintaining of domination by one racial group over another. This includes
> >the deliberated imposition of living conditions calculated to cause
> >physical destruction and any legislative or other measures preventing a
> >racial group from full development of their political, social, economic 
>and
> >cultural life. This is an accurate description of what the zionists are
> >doing to the Palestinian people with the full support of the USA.
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________ Get 
>your
> >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2070
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-18 22:03:01
Subject:drum roll, please...
Message:

top 10 reasons bush destroyed the wtc:

10. needed $40 billion for A-rod's contract extension
9. liked hitler's 'reichstag fire' stunt.  thought he'd try it.
8. couldn't figure out how to steal the nyc democratic primary.
7. to escape having to pose with bad boy home run king
    barry (us) bonds.
6. terrified schundler might lose nj election.
5. to sabatoge new jay-z "blueprint" premiere.
4. initiation into 'skull & bones'.
3. shakedown small stock investors.
2. reason to kill a-rabs like dear ol' dad.
1. no good summer action flicks.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2071
Sender:"Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-18 22:04:23
Subject:RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack
Message:

Matt,

You're spreading gross conspiracy theories and considerably undermining your
intelligence in the eye of this list -- or else trying to insult its
intelligence by assuming that this sort of nonsense would be accepted, much
less 'spread.'

Al-Manar Television, the disseminator of this so-called 'news', is "a
Lebanese TV station, aims to preserve the Islamic values and to enhance the
civilized role of the Arab and Islamic Community. Political, cultural and
social affairs are of special importance o the station's programs. Most
important is
the struggle against Zionism/racism."  In the past several days, they have
produced other reporting gems -- "Did Israel Attack the Pentagon and World
Trade Center?" -- "U.S. Military Could Be Behind The Sept. 11 Terrorist
Attacks" -- and other, possibly a bit less surreal, but nonetheless very
evidently biased and juicy bits which would easily shame The Enquirer and
The Star.

http://paknews.com/flash.php?id=27&date1=2001-09-18

Your posts could be viewed from my perspective only as provocation, whether
it is due to your own naivete or some other unfortunate force, you do more
to harm the cause of those who wish to see violence abate than appear as any
defender thereof.  Maybe your angst runs so far as to make you no better
than those you claim to oppose.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:25 AM
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com; poprogress@yahoogroups.com;
njfo@yahoogroups.com; onepeoplescoalition@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
Day o f the Attack



READ THIS AND SPREAD THE WORD



>From: "Nurfette !" Subject: Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli
>Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001
>14:59:56 +0000
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.

         Previous   Next | Close

From :
"Nurfette !" <nurfette@...>

Subject :
Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day
o f the Attack

Date :
Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:59:56 +0000


>From: "Khalid S. Khan" To: islamirc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ISLAMirc]
>BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:02:36 +0000
>
>4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack
>
>Manar TV - Sept 17, 2001 < http://www.manartv.com/> With the announcement
>of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New York, the international
>media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to take advantage of the
>incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work at the two towers.
>Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those Israelis and
>later it became clear that they remarkably did not show up in their jobs
>the day the incident took place. No one talked about any Israeli being
>killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to the
>Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that day
>based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the Shabak, the
>fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on American officials who wanted
>to know how the Israeli government learned about the incident before it
>occurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing the U.S
>authorities of the information it had. Suspicions had increased further
>after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that the Shabak prevented
>Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York and particularly to
>the citys eastern coast to participate in a festival organized by the
>Zionist organizations in support of the "Israel". Aharon Bernie, the
>commentator at the newspaper, brought up the issue and came up with a
>negative conclusion, saying no answer. He then asked about the clue behind
>the Shabaks position in preventing Sharons participation, and again without
>giving an answer. Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for having
>his speech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of the
>organization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change its position, but
>his attempts were in vein. The next day after Sharons secretary officially
>announced that Sharon would not participate the incident took place. For
>its part, the Israeli Haaretz newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested five
>Israelis four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming the
>smoking skyline from the roof of their companys building. The FBI had
>arrested the five for puzzling behavior. They are said to have been caught
>videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and
>mockery. =======
>
>
>VISIT: < HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET > WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE ANYWHERE
>IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!!!!
>
>DEFINING APARTHEID
>
>Article 2 of the "International Convention of the Suppression and
>Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid" of 1973 clearly defined the term
>"crime of apartheid." This includes similar policies and practices of
>segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa and which also
>apply to inhuman acts committed for the purpose of the establishment and
>maintaining of domination by one racial group over another. This includes
>the deliberated imposition of living conditions calculated to cause
>physical destruction and any legislative or other measures preventing a
>racial group from full development of their political, social, economic and
>cultural life. This is an accurate description of what the zionists are
>doing to the Palestinian people with the full support of the USA.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________ Get your
>FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2072
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-18 22:30:45
Subject:RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack
Message:

true or not,
is easier to swallow, conspiracy-wise,
than the farce that
the wtc was demolished
w/ boxcutters


>From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>CC: "njfo list" <njfo@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the 
>Day o f the Attack
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:04:23 -0400
>
>Matt,
>
>You're spreading gross conspiracy theories and considerably undermining 
>your
>intelligence in the eye of this list -- or else trying to insult its
>intelligence by assuming that this sort of nonsense would be accepted, much
>less 'spread.'
>
>Al-Manar Television, the disseminator of this so-called 'news', is "a
>Lebanese TV station, aims to preserve the Islamic values and to enhance the
>civilized role of the Arab and Islamic Community. Political, cultural and
>social affairs are of special importance o the station's programs. Most
>important is
>the struggle against Zionism/racism."  In the past several days, they have
>produced other reporting gems -- "Did Israel Attack the Pentagon and World
>Trade Center?" -- "U.S. Military Could Be Behind The Sept. 11 Terrorist
>Attacks" -- and other, possibly a bit less surreal, but nonetheless very
>evidently biased and juicy bits which would easily shame The Enquirer and
>The Star.
>
>http://paknews.com/flash.php?id=27&date1=2001-09-18
>
>Your posts could be viewed from my perspective only as provocation, whether
>it is due to your own naivete or some other unfortunate force, you do more
>to harm the cause of those who wish to see violence abate than appear as 
>any
>defender thereof.  Maybe your angst runs so far as to make you no better
>than those you claim to oppose.
>
>Chris
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:25 AM
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com; poprogress@yahoogroups.com;
>njfo@yahoogroups.com; onepeoplescoalition@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
>Day o f the Attack
>
>
>
>READ THIS AND SPREAD THE WORD
>
>
>
> >From: "Nurfette !" Subject: Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli
> >Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001
> >14:59:56 +0000
> >
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
>
>          Previous   Next | Close
>
>From :
>"Nurfette !" <nurfette@...>
>
>Subject :
>Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day
>o f the Attack
>
>Date :
>Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:59:56 +0000
>
>
> >From: "Khalid S. Khan" To: islamirc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ISLAMirc]
> >BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the 
>Attack
> >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:02:36 +0000
> >
> >4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack
> >
> >Manar TV - Sept 17, 2001 < http://www.manartv.com/> With the announcement
> >of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New York, the international
> >media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to take advantage of the
> >incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work at the two towers.
> >Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those Israelis and
> >later it became clear that they remarkably did not show up in their jobs
> >the day the incident took place. No one talked about any Israeli being
> >killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to the
> >Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that day
> >based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the Shabak, 
>the
> >fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on American officials who wanted
> >to know how the Israeli government learned about the incident before it
> >occurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing the U.S
> >authorities of the information it had. Suspicions had increased further
> >after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that the Shabak prevented
> >Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York and particularly 
>to
> >the citys eastern coast to participate in a festival organized by the
> >Zionist organizations in support of the "Israel". Aharon Bernie, the
> >commentator at the newspaper, brought up the issue and came up with a
> >negative conclusion, saying no answer. He then asked about the clue 
>behind
> >the Shabaks position in preventing Sharons participation, and again 
>without
> >giving an answer. Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for having
> >his speech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of the
> >organization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change its position, 
>but
> >his attempts were in vein. The next day after Sharons secretary 
>officially
> >announced that Sharon would not participate the incident took place. For
> >its part, the Israeli Haaretz newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested 
>five
> >Israelis four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming the
> >smoking skyline from the roof of their companys building. The FBI had
> >arrested the five for puzzling behavior. They are said to have been 
>caught
> >videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and
> >mockery. =======
> >
> >
> >VISIT: < HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET > WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE ANYWHERE
> >IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!!!!
> >
> >DEFINING APARTHEID
> >
> >Article 2 of the "International Convention of the Suppression and
> >Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid" of 1973 clearly defined the term
> >"crime of apartheid." This includes similar policies and practices of
> >segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa and which 
>also
> >apply to inhuman acts committed for the purpose of the establishment and
> >maintaining of domination by one racial group over another. This includes
> >the deliberated imposition of living conditions calculated to cause
> >physical destruction and any legislative or other measures preventing a
> >racial group from full development of their political, social, economic 
>and
> >cultural life. This is an accurate description of what the zionists are
> >doing to the Palestinian people with the full support of the USA.
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________ Get 
>your
> >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2073
Sender:"Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-18 22:35:47
Subject:RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack
Message:

If one is as bent on one's pre-packaged world view, and as indifferent to
the pursuit of truth as one cliff smith -- no doubt.  But that is an
indictment against you to begin with, and certainly no news to me.

As far as I'm concerned, you're no less an agent of international finance
capital or the military-industrial complex than 'they' are.


-----Original Message-----
From: cliff smith [mailto:cliffsmith69@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 10:31 PM
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent
the Day o f the Attack


true or not,
is easier to swallow, conspiracy-wise,
than the farce that
the wtc was demolished
w/ boxcutters


>From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>CC: "njfo list" <njfo@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
>Day o f the Attack
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:04:23 -0400
>
>Matt,
>
>You're spreading gross conspiracy theories and considerably undermining
>your
>intelligence in the eye of this list -- or else trying to insult its
>intelligence by assuming that this sort of nonsense would be accepted, much
>less 'spread.'
>
>Al-Manar Television, the disseminator of this so-called 'news', is "a
>Lebanese TV station, aims to preserve the Islamic values and to enhance the
>civilized role of the Arab and Islamic Community. Political, cultural and
>social affairs are of special importance o the station's programs. Most
>important is
>the struggle against Zionism/racism."  In the past several days, they have
>produced other reporting gems -- "Did Israel Attack the Pentagon and World
>Trade Center?" -- "U.S. Military Could Be Behind The Sept. 11 Terrorist
>Attacks" -- and other, possibly a bit less surreal, but nonetheless very
>evidently biased and juicy bits which would easily shame The Enquirer and
>The Star.
>
>http://paknews.com/flash.php?id=27&date1=2001-09-18
>
>Your posts could be viewed from my perspective only as provocation, whether
>it is due to your own naivete or some other unfortunate force, you do more
>to harm the cause of those who wish to see violence abate than appear as
>any
>defender thereof.  Maybe your angst runs so far as to make you no better
>than those you claim to oppose.
>
>Chris
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:25 AM
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com; poprogress@yahoogroups.com;
>njfo@yahoogroups.com; onepeoplescoalition@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
>Day o f the Attack
>
>
>
>READ THIS AND SPREAD THE WORD
>
>
>
> >From: "Nurfette !" Subject: Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli
> >Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001
> >14:59:56 +0000
> >
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>----
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
>
>          Previous   Next | Close
>
>From :
>"Nurfette !" <nurfette@...>
>
>Subject :
>Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day
>o f the Attack
>
>Date :
>Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:59:56 +0000
>
>
> >From: "Khalid S. Khan" To: islamirc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ISLAMirc]
> >BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the
>Attack
> >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:02:36 +0000
> >
> >4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack
> >
> >Manar TV - Sept 17, 2001 < http://www.manartv.com/> With the announcement
> >of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New York, the international
> >media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to take advantage of the
> >incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work at the two towers.
> >Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those Israelis and
> >later it became clear that they remarkably did not show up in their jobs
> >the day the incident took place. No one talked about any Israeli being
> >killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to the
> >Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that day
> >based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the Shabak,
>the
> >fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on American officials who wanted
> >to know how the Israeli government learned about the incident before it
> >occurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing the U.S
> >authorities of the information it had. Suspicions had increased further
> >after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that the Shabak prevented
> >Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York and particularly
>to
> >the citys eastern coast to participate in a festival organized by the
> >Zionist organizations in support of the "Israel". Aharon Bernie, the
> >commentator at the newspaper, brought up the issue and came up with a
> >negative conclusion, saying no answer. He then asked about the clue
>behind
> >the Shabaks position in preventing Sharons participation, and again
>without
> >giving an answer. Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for having
> >his speech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of the
> >organization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change its position,
>but
> >his attempts were in vein. The next day after Sharons secretary
>officially
> >announced that Sharon would not participate the incident took place. For
> >its part, the Israeli Haaretz newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested
>five
> >Israelis four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming the
> >smoking skyline from the roof of their companys building. The FBI had
> >arrested the five for puzzling behavior. They are said to have been
>caught
> >videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and
> >mockery. =======
> >
> >
> >VISIT: < HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET > WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE ANYWHERE
> >IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!!!!
> >
> >DEFINING APARTHEID
> >
> >Article 2 of the "International Convention of the Suppression and
> >Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid" of 1973 clearly defined the term
> >"crime of apartheid." This includes similar policies and practices of
> >segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa and which
>also
> >apply to inhuman acts committed for the purpose of the establishment and
> >maintaining of domination by one racial group over another. This includes
> >the deliberated imposition of living conditions calculated to cause
> >physical destruction and any legislative or other measures preventing a
> >racial group from full development of their political, social, economic
>and
> >cultural life. This is an accurate description of what the zionists are
> >doing to the Palestinian people with the full support of the USA.
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________ Get
>your
> >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


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To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2074
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-18 23:53:03
Subject:Re: [njfo] Re: [nbpc] which 'trend' embraces anarchism, u&s?
Message:

where can i pick up some of the 100 copies and when will more be availavle?

joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, amirib@..., jmodibo@..., 
>njfo@yahoogroups.com, coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, 
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: [njfo] Re: [nbpc] which 'trend' embraces anarchism, u&s?
>Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 00:30:41
>
>Cliff- The absence of Women's rep. on old U&S cover is my mistake, and I
>accept the criticism.  However, the error had already been noticed and
>corrected for subsequent issues.  Only a 100 or so of the first went out.
>-Matt
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: amirib@..., jmodibo@..., njfo@egroups.com,
>coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, onepeoplesproject@egroups.com,
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] which 'trend' embraces anarchism, u&s?
>Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 23:43:50 +0000
>
>u&s accuses sword of promoting anarchy (new u&s), by way of deflecting our
>political criticisms of them.
>
>(for instance, apparently, that they actually will embrace, or at minimum,
>defend, anarchism, but make no such gesture to women, judging from their
>'united front' graphic, cover-new u&s)
>
>u&s representative keith joseph-
>"It is best to criticize people's actions not(!) what they say. If the
>anarchists do something that I think is wrong I will criticize it."
>
>(but 'not what they say', i.e. the ideology of anarchism.) cs
>
>kj-
>"Anarchists are leading(!) the "anti-globilization movement", they are
>fighting a significant aspect of imperialism, to just dismiss that is
>arrogant and ignorant...It was a mistake to compare anarchists with
>terrorists. You have isolated yourself from the bulk of young organizers
>already."
>
>keith refers to this statement in our recent leaflet, full text below:
>
>"Terrorism, like anarchism, undermines the conscious, productive, &
>disciplined peoples' democratic struggle against monopoly
>capital/imperialism. What is needed is organization & education, democratic
>revolutionary struggle & unity."
>
>the record of destructive tactics by anarchist elements, even recently at
>wto protests, is indisputable. as is the anti-working class relationship
>between terrorism & anarchy, both ultimately serving bourgeois interests.
>
>cs
>
>
>  >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, rustudentsforpeace@...,
>  >njfo@egroups.com, onepeoplesproject@egroups.com, amirib@...
>  >Subject: [nbpc] Attacking Anarchist?
>  >Date: Tue, 08 Jan 1980 03:10:46 -0500
>  >
>  >Joe,
>  >Your flyer compares anarchists to the terrorists that attacked the WTC.
>  >That is not
>  >only stupid it alienates everyone that you were working with. How can 
>that
>  >be
>  >productive? It is best to criticize people's actions not what they say. 
>If
>  >the
>  >anarchists do something that I think is wrong I will criticize it.
>  >Anarchists are
>  >leading the "anti-globilization movement", they are fighting a 
>significant
>  >aspect of
>  >imperialism, to just dismiss that is arrogant and ignorant...
>  >It was a mistake to compare anarchists with terrorists.
>  >You have isolated yourself from the bulk of young organizers already.
>  >Persisting in
>  >this way will only isolate you more, it has nothing to do with me. 
>Though
>I
>  >will
>  >continue to draw a line of demarcation between SWORD and Unity & 
>Struggle.
>  >We have
>  >many disagreements.
>  >We are facing a very dangerous situation and there is certainly the
>  >potential that
>  >Bush led Imperialism will push the world towards fascism. Your line is 
>the
>  >same as the
>  >Trots who attcked the Communists from within the United Front in Spain
>  >opening the way
>  >for Franco. Before you deny it, try learning about it. Practice your 
>line
>  >if you want.
>  >Don't blame me for your failure isolation.
>  >
>  >Keith
>  >
>  >PS. This is the only response that I will make to  this point on e-mail.
>We
>  >don't have
>  >time.
>  >
>  >joseph smith wrote:
>  >
>  > > keith joseph says anarchists are leading the struggle against the 
>world
>  > > bank& imf.  and that is why SWORD's criticism (specifically 3rd
>  >paragraph)
>  > > is wrong - though he had none to offer, odd from a communist?
>  > >
>  > > it is an outright lie that the anarchists are leading the struggle
>  >against
>  > > imperialism! The majority of protestors at these conferences are not
>  >even
>  > > anarchists - let alone those that understand to organize their
>  >international
>  > > revolutionary line locally throughout the community, such as the
>elected
>  > > school board campaign and ras baraka for newark council. the peoples
>  >local
>  > > and community organization against imperialism is 1000X more 
>productive
>  >than
>  > > a one day or weak protest. the ruling class has already won the 
>street
>  >war -
>  > > didn't marx say that over 100 years ago? that we should organize
>locally
>  >to
>  > > seize political office, isn't that what Unity & Struggle has 
>authored?
>  > >
>  > > everywhere keith goes he joins the strongest tide within "the 
>movement"
>  > > against the now members of SWORD
>  > >
>  > > in a united front the people & organizations come together but our
>  > > tendencies do not cease. that is why we must embrace debates and
>  >criticisms
>  > > - we are willing to prove our case. to agree and state that i cannot
>  > > criticize a member of the anti-war movement, which is what those that
>  > > initially disagreed with paragraph 3 stated, is wrong and hazardous 
>to
>  >Unity
>  > > & Struggle - the practice -
>  > >
>  > > other than this development all engagements during tonight's speak 
>out
>  >wear
>  > > visibly productive. and we continue with -
>  > >
>  > > speak out monday september 17 8:00pm brower commons
>  > > strategy meeting tuesday september 18 6:00pm NB library guest house
>  > >
>  > > Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
>  > >
>  > > Defeat Terrorism & Imperialism with More Revolutionary Democracy!
>  > > Prime Suspect: Bush/CIA &co!
>  > >
>  > > We first stand with all victims of the recent terror attacks & insist
>  > > capture of perpetrators. Service workers, clerks, secretaries, food
>  >workers,
>  > > custodians, maintenance, visitors, firemen, cops-these are many of 
>the
>  >dead
>  > > & wounded.
>  > >
>  > > Terrorism, like anarchism, undermines the conscious, productive, &
>  > > disciplined peoples' democratic struggle against monopoly
>  > > capital/imperialism. What is needed is organization & education,
>  >democratic
>  > > revolutionary struggle & unity. Impeach Bush Now! & Defeat All
>  >Republicans
>  > > (Schundler)!
>  > >
>  > > The illegitimate Bush regime & allied international corporate
>  >imperialist
>  > > web (WTO, IMF, World Bank�) were tremendously isolated following the
>  >stolen
>  > > election, the US/Israeli dis of World Racism Forum in So.Africa & 
>mass
>  > > protests of WTO in Genoa, Italy, &c.
>  > >
>  > > Bush now is given carte blanche $billions to shoot em up, while New
>  > > Brunswick pre-schoolers are turned away for "lack of facilities" &
>await
>  > > "trailer classrooms".
>  > >
>  > > The attacks on US citizens soup Bush aggression & promise fascist
>  >martial
>  > > law powers: the absolute elimination of Democratic Freedoms here and
>  > > Blitzkreig War abroad--Terrorism serves Imperialism.
>  > >
>  > > Before Hitler cd jump, 1st he burned the Reichstag (1933), blamed the
>  >Reds,
>  > > outlawed  opposition, &declared himself Supreme Leader (to 'protect 
>the
>  > > people').
>  > >
>  > > Remember: Bush1 was head of the CIA, best equipped to carry out this
>  > > synchronized slaughter, unless you think Oswald did the job alone�
>  > >
>  > > Bush/Cheney/CIA hoods demand 'evil Arabs did it! w/ box cutters(!) 
>&red
>  > > bandannas...' (But have charged nobody, with all their 'evidence'!)
>  > > Like NB Pimps Marshall &Chinchilla sd '98 'We was shot by one of them
>  > > Remsen Ave. Boys' & dropped $10G bounty on heads of NB Black Youth.
>  > > As diversion from their own crimes--convicted, sentenced & still on 
>the
>  > > street!
>  > >
>  > > Fight, Don't Hide!  Intensify Democratic Struggle!
>  > > Smash Schundler, Vote McGreasy, Nov. election!
>  > > Put RasBaraka in Newark City Council, May '02!
>  > > Seize New Brunswick, Nov. '02-mayor, 2 council seats, elected board 
>of
>  > > education!
>  > >
>  > > Join the New Brunswick Peoples' Campaign: meet NB library12:00  1st 
>Sat
>  >in
>  > > October.
>  > >
>  > > Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy
>  > >
>  > > contact Cliff Smith 732.214.8828   can_bush@...
>  > >
>  > > _________________________________________________________________
>  > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>  >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  > >
>  > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>  > >
>  > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>  >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>  > >
>  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@...
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: njfo-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2075
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-18 23:58:39
Subject:Re: [njfo] RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack
Message:

all mouth no work makes kozlowski a dull commi


>From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>CC: "njfo list" <njfo@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [njfo] RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC 
>Absent the Day o f the Attack
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:04:23 -0400
>
>Matt,
>
>You're spreading gross conspiracy theories and considerably undermining 
>your
>intelligence in the eye of this list -- or else trying to insult its
>intelligence by assuming that this sort of nonsense would be accepted, much
>less 'spread.'
>
>Al-Manar Television, the disseminator of this so-called 'news', is "a
>Lebanese TV station, aims to preserve the Islamic values and to enhance the
>civilized role of the Arab and Islamic Community. Political, cultural and
>social affairs are of special importance o the station's programs. Most
>important is
>the struggle against Zionism/racism."  In the past several days, they have
>produced other reporting gems -- "Did Israel Attack the Pentagon and World
>Trade Center?" -- "U.S. Military Could Be Behind The Sept. 11 Terrorist
>Attacks" -- and other, possibly a bit less surreal, but nonetheless very
>evidently biased and juicy bits which would easily shame The Enquirer and
>The Star.
>
>http://paknews.com/flash.php?id=27&date1=2001-09-18
>
>Your posts could be viewed from my perspective only as provocation, whether
>it is due to your own naivete or some other unfortunate force, you do more
>to harm the cause of those who wish to see violence abate than appear as 
>any
>defender thereof.  Maybe your angst runs so far as to make you no better
>than those you claim to oppose.
>
>Chris
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:25 AM
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com; poprogress@yahoogroups.com;
>njfo@yahoogroups.com; onepeoplescoalition@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
>Day o f the Attack
>
>
>
>READ THIS AND SPREAD THE WORD
>
>
>
> >From: "Nurfette !" Subject: Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli
> >Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001
> >14:59:56 +0000
> >
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
>
>          Previous   Next | Close
>
>From :
>"Nurfette !" <nurfette@...>
>
>Subject :
>Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day
>o f the Attack
>
>Date :
>Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:59:56 +0000
>
>
> >From: "Khalid S. Khan" To: islamirc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ISLAMirc]
> >BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the 
>Attack
> >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:02:36 +0000
> >
> >4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack
> >
> >Manar TV - Sept 17, 2001 < http://www.manartv.com/> With the announcement
> >of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New York, the international
> >media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to take advantage of the
> >incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work at the two towers.
> >Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those Israelis and
> >later it became clear that they remarkably did not show up in their jobs
> >the day the incident took place. No one talked about any Israeli being
> >killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to the
> >Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that day
> >based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the Shabak, 
>the
> >fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on American officials who wanted
> >to know how the Israeli government learned about the incident before it
> >occurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing the U.S
> >authorities of the information it had. Suspicions had increased further
> >after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that the Shabak prevented
> >Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York and particularly 
>to
> >the citys eastern coast to participate in a festival organized by the
> >Zionist organizations in support of the "Israel". Aharon Bernie, the
> >commentator at the newspaper, brought up the issue and came up with a
> >negative conclusion, saying no answer. He then asked about the clue 
>behind
> >the Shabaks position in preventing Sharons participation, and again 
>without
> >giving an answer. Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for having
> >his speech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of the
> >organization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change its position, 
>but
> >his attempts were in vein. The next day after Sharons secretary 
>officially
> >announced that Sharon would not participate the incident took place. For
> >its part, the Israeli Haaretz newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested 
>five
> >Israelis four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming the
> >smoking skyline from the roof of their companys building. The FBI had
> >arrested the five for puzzling behavior. They are said to have been 
>caught
> >videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and
> >mockery. =======
> >
> >
> >VISIT: < HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET > WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE ANYWHERE
> >IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!!!!
> >
> >DEFINING APARTHEID
> >
> >Article 2 of the "International Convention of the Suppression and
> >Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid" of 1973 clearly defined the term
> >"crime of apartheid." This includes similar policies and practices of
> >segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa and which 
>also
> >apply to inhuman acts committed for the purpose of the establishment and
> >maintaining of domination by one racial group over another. This includes
> >the deliberated imposition of living conditions calculated to cause
> >physical destruction and any legislative or other measures preventing a
> >racial group from full development of their political, social, economic 
>and
> >cultural life. This is an accurate description of what the zionists are
> >doing to the Palestinian people with the full support of the USA.
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________ Get 
>your
> >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2076
Sender:"Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-19 01:07:50
Subject:RE: [njfo] RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack
Message:

His work and mouth makes Joe Smith an indispensable tool of 'imperialism'.
No, scratch that -- a dispensable tool.  :)  But nonetheless useful.  Keep
up the good work, guys.  Is the CIA still supplying you with narcotics?

-----Original Message-----
From: joseph smith [mailto:can_bush@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 11:59 PM
To: njfo@yahoogroups.com; nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [njfo] RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in
WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack


all mouth no work makes kozlowski a dull commi


>From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>CC: "njfo list" <njfo@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [njfo] RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC
>Absent the Day o f the Attack
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:04:23 -0400
>
>Matt,
>
>You're spreading gross conspiracy theories and considerably undermining
>your
>intelligence in the eye of this list -- or else trying to insult its
>intelligence by assuming that this sort of nonsense would be accepted, much
>less 'spread.'
>
>Al-Manar Television, the disseminator of this so-called 'news', is "a
>Lebanese TV station, aims to preserve the Islamic values and to enhance the
>civilized role of the Arab and Islamic Community. Political, cultural and
>social affairs are of special importance o the station's programs. Most
>important is
>the struggle against Zionism/racism."  In the past several days, they have
>produced other reporting gems -- "Did Israel Attack the Pentagon and World
>Trade Center?" -- "U.S. Military Could Be Behind The Sept. 11 Terrorist
>Attacks" -- and other, possibly a bit less surreal, but nonetheless very
>evidently biased and juicy bits which would easily shame The Enquirer and
>The Star.
>
>http://paknews.com/flash.php?id=27&date1=2001-09-18
>
>Your posts could be viewed from my perspective only as provocation, whether
>it is due to your own naivete or some other unfortunate force, you do more
>to harm the cause of those who wish to see violence abate than appear as
>any
>defender thereof.  Maybe your angst runs so far as to make you no better
>than those you claim to oppose.
>
>Chris
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:25 AM
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com; poprogress@yahoogroups.com;
>njfo@yahoogroups.com; onepeoplescoalition@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
>Day o f the Attack
>
>
>
>READ THIS AND SPREAD THE WORD
>
>
>
> >From: "Nurfette !" Subject: Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli
> >Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001
> >14:59:56 +0000
> >
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>----
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
>
>          Previous   Next | Close
>
>From :
>"Nurfette !" <nurfette@...>
>
>Subject :
>Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day
>o f the Attack
>
>Date :
>Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:59:56 +0000
>
>
> >From: "Khalid S. Khan" To: islamirc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ISLAMirc]
> >BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the
>Attack
> >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:02:36 +0000
> >
> >4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack
> >
> >Manar TV - Sept 17, 2001 < http://www.manartv.com/> With the announcement
> >of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New York, the international
> >media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to take advantage of the
> >incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work at the two towers.
> >Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those Israelis and
> >later it became clear that they remarkably did not show up in their jobs
> >the day the incident took place. No one talked about any Israeli being
> >killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to the
> >Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that day
> >based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the Shabak,
>the
> >fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on American officials who wanted
> >to know how the Israeli government learned about the incident before it
> >occurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing the U.S
> >authorities of the information it had. Suspicions had increased further
> >after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that the Shabak prevented
> >Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York and particularly
>to
> >the citys eastern coast to participate in a festival organized by the
> >Zionist organizations in support of the "Israel". Aharon Bernie, the
> >commentator at the newspaper, brought up the issue and came up with a
> >negative conclusion, saying no answer. He then asked about the clue
>behind
> >the Shabaks position in preventing Sharons participation, and again
>without
> >giving an answer. Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for having
> >his speech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of the
> >organization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change its position,
>but
> >his attempts were in vein. The next day after Sharons secretary
>officially
> >announced that Sharon would not participate the incident took place. For
> >its part, the Israeli Haaretz newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested
>five
> >Israelis four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming the
> >smoking skyline from the roof of their companys building. The FBI had
> >arrested the five for puzzling behavior. They are said to have been
>caught
> >videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and
> >mockery. =======
> >
> >
> >VISIT: < HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET > WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE ANYWHERE
> >IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!!!!
> >
> >DEFINING APARTHEID
> >
> >Article 2 of the "International Convention of the Suppression and
> >Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid" of 1973 clearly defined the term
> >"crime of apartheid." This includes similar policies and practices of
> >segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa and which
>also
> >apply to inhuman acts committed for the purpose of the establishment and
> >maintaining of domination by one racial group over another. This includes
> >the deliberated imposition of living conditions calculated to cause
> >physical destruction and any legislative or other measures preventing a
> >racial group from full development of their political, social, economic
>and
> >cultural life. This is an accurate description of what the zionists are
> >doing to the Palestinian people with the full support of the USA.
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________ Get
>your
> >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2077
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-19 11:09:13
Subject:Fwd: During rally, dispute over war breaks out
Message:

Announcement:
           Demonstration Against War
           Tomorrow, Thursday Sept 20
           @Brower Commons 5:00pm
           can_bush@...

all hands on deck!!
**IMPEACH BUSH**

During rally, dispute over war breaks out
By: Melissa Hayes, Targum Staff Writer


09/19/01
--------------------------
>
>About 100 people gathered on the steps of Brower Commons on the College 
>Avenue campus Monday night for a speak-out organized by Rutgers Students 
>for Peace, which turned into an argument on whether or not the United 
>States should go to war.
>
>Phrases written in chalk such as �Pro-Life? Don�t Ask for War!� covered the 
>sidewalks as students gathered to speak on peace.
>
>�We don�t need people to die. � This is a call for peace,� said Rick 
>Schaffer, one of the founding members of Rutgers Students for Peace � which 
>is not recognized by the University � and a graduate student studying labor 
>and employment relations. �We don�t need a police state here.�
>
>Although the group held the speak-out with the intention of having students 
>speak out for peace and against war, as the event continued, many students 
>spoke out on the benefits of going to war.
>
>Dave Allmer, a College of Engineering first-year student, responded to 
>Schaffer. �There�ll never be peace until we get rid of all the terrorists,� 
>he said.
>
>Taliver Heath, a graduate student studying computer science, added, �We�re 
>Americans. We fight back.�
>
>Rachel Lichtenfeld, a Douglass College sophomore, rebutted. �When people go 
>to war, innocents die,� Lichtenfeld said. �War is about killing people.�
>
>Keith Joseph, a member of New Brunswick People�s Campaign � an opposition 
>political party in the city that unsuccessfully attempted to elect three 
>candidates to the New Brunswick City Council last year � spoke at the 
>event. He noted that the CIA supplied materials and funding to the Afghan 
>Mujahadeen rebels in their fight against invading Soviet forces in the 
>1980s. Osama bin Laden, a suspect in last Tuesday�s terrorist attacks, 
>joined the CIA-backed rebel forces. �We need to abolish the CIA,� Joseph 
>said.
>
>Heath questioned Joseph�s position. �What�s going to stop the terrorists?� 
>he asked, referring to Joseph�s statement.
>
>As the discussion went on, a woman in the crowd began to demand that the 
>students supporting an American military response to the terror leave the 
>event. Several small arguments had broken out in the crowd by this time 
>between people disputing that the United States should �get out of 
>everything� and people demanding that the U.S. �bomb the terrorists.�
>
>Onlooker Rob Vazquez was perplexed by the heated dispute. The World Trade 
>Center was reduced to six stories of debris, he said, �and people are 
>arguing about social issues and getting out of the country. � It�s really 
>stupid.�
>
>Schaffer said, �What we�re trying to advocate is that the U.S. does not 
>need to go to war.�
>
>An anonymous Rutgers College first-year student wearing an American flag as 
>a cape and a sign that reads �For those responsible, we�re coming for you,� 
>made an appearance at the speak-out. �We�re going to wipe them out,� he 
>said in reference to the culprits behind last Tuesday�s attack. �We don�t 
>stand down to terrorists.�
>
>Joseph argued with the student, maintaining that the CIA created bin Laden 
>and will sow the seeds of future terrorist attacks if the agency is 
>permitted to exist. All the student could say is that �it just wouldn�t 
>happen.�
>
>Lichtenfeld, another founding member of Rutgers Students for Peace, said 
>she was �pleasantly surprised� by the number of students that turned out 
>for the event. She said that although many students showed up in opposition 
>to a non-military response, �It�s nice to have a dialogue going.� She added 
>that she hopes to organize a teach-in at which University professors will 
>educate students on the subject.
>--------------------------
>Story Source: The Daily Targum
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2079
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-19 14:35:45
Subject:Hundreds mourn White Supremacist murder of local muslim man
Message:

For Story source go to:

http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,448009,00.html


         Hundreds mourn death of grocer slain in possible hate crime

               Published in the Home News Tribune 9/19/01

               By KEN SERRANO
               STAFF WRITER

               In the shadow of a national tragedy and another cause of 
grief that may have come in retaliation for it, hundreds of mourners at
               the Islamic Society of Central Jersey in South Brunswick 
marked the death yesterday of a Pakistan-born man formerly of
               Milltown gunned down in his Dallas grocery store.

               Muslims in both traditional and casual dress and non-Muslim 
friends, and local
               government and school leaders converged on the Islamic 
Society's mosque on
               Route 1 to mourn Waquar Hasan.

               Hasan, who came to the United States more than a decade ago 
with his family, was
               buried at Oaklawn Memorial Park in South Brunswick.

               Hasan's death has sparked an FBI investigation into whether 
the killer acted out of
               revenge for the terrorist attacks of last week.

               Dallas police on Sunday said an initial check showed nothing 
was stolen from
               Mom's Grocery, co-owned by Hasan, who was killed with a 
single gunshot to the
               head Saturday night.

               For Hasan's family, devout Muslims who have drawn insults 
since the attacks on
               the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, there is no question 
the killing was a
               hate crime.

               In an wrenching scene inside the mosque following rounds of 
prayers at the
               funeral service, Choudhry Hasan, Waquar's brother, blamed his 
brothers death on
               anti-Muslim hostility that followed the World Trade Center 
attacks. His brother's
               four daughters, as well as his own daughters, huddled next to 
him weeping.

               "We cannot walk outside anymore," Hasan said.

               Referring to Timothy McVeigh, an angry Hasan asked two 
television reporters, "Did you guys ever say he was a Christian
               terrorist?"

               Hasan also referred to an incident over the weekend in which 
he and two friends were pulled over by North Brunswick and New
               Brunswick police. They explained to him they had received a 
call from someone fearing the three men had left a suspicious
               package at a fast-food restaurant.

               Choudhry Hasan said police told him he "looked like a 
terrorist" because of his long beard, white gown-like shirt and skull cap.

               "I lost my brother and on top of it they called me a 
terrorist," he said yesterday. "Stop this nonsense and don't abuse any
               religion, please."

               Mention of last week's devastating attacks in New York City 
and Virginia was never far from any remark at the mosque.

               But the themes touched on by others were of reconciliation, 
hope for a slackening of tensions and shared loss in the New York
               City death toll.

               Standing next to Choudhry Hasan, a man held up a poster to 
the television cameras of a Muslim friend lost in the World Trade
               Center attack. As people pointed out after the service, 
hundreds of the missing are believed to be Muslims.

               "The media, the television talk shows are talking of blame," 
said Parvaiz Malik, the chairman of the board of trustees of the
               Islamic Society. "This is a time to put our hearts and hands 
together."

               Malik underscored the support and protection the congregation 
has received from local non-Muslims, including governmental
               leaders and the township police and the state police.

               Rep. Rush Holt, D-12th Dist., waded through kneeling men in 
the front of the Mosque to address the crowd of about 250.

               ''To stand up to bigotry and intolerance takes as much 
courage as it does to stand up to hijackers," he said. "It will take courage
               to take what has been sown from turning into a whirlwind."

               The death of Hasan has drawn the notice of the United Nations 
and been reported in newspapers in Pakistan. Officials from
               Pakistan's Consulate in New York were expected to attend the 
afternoon service, but did not show up.

               Women, veiled in the traditional scarves, hijabs, remained in 
the back during the service as is customary in the Muslim religion.

               For others, the signs of American life and their Muslim faith 
stood side by side. Baseball caps were turned backward in a sign of
               respect as others wore traditional skull caps. A hearse 
draped with both the flags of Pakistan and the United States carried the
               casket to the cemetery.

               After the service, the mosque's religious director, Imam 
Hamad Ahmad Chebli, said, "The grief (from the attacks) is in our hearts
               as it is in every American's hearts."

               He said a lot of good nonetheless has arisen since last week.

               "People (non-Muslims) have been coming to the mosque asking 
if they can help," he said.

               As Choudhry stood in Oaklawn Memorial Park in a more 
reflective frame of mind, he briefly recited his own American history.
               He came to the United States in 1970 after studying in 
London. He graduated from the University of Maryland with a degree in
               mechanical engineering. Hasan, an American citizen, now owns 
an Exxon gas station in North Brunswick.

               "I buried my father here (in 1990) and now my brother," he 
said. "I just want all this hatred to stop."

               Ken Serrano: (732) 565-7212. E-mail kserrano@...

               from the Home News Tribune

               Published: September 19, 2001

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2080
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-19 16:03:37
Subject:RE: Kris's issues
Message:

Kris- Gross conspiracy theories?  We're about to enter WWIII brother, and 
all we're getting is BS from Imperialist propaganda machine.  If I find 
something I think is worth looking at, I put it out.  That's all.  We need 
to look at all sides. (If that bothers you, don't read them) The only firm 
conclusion I've made is that I'm not going to be spoonfed CNN smoke & 
mirrors while they go and reign 1000 WTC's upon the Middle East.  Like they 
did in Iraq when they were going after "1 man" (1 million died in the 
process, and an entire nation destroyed.) Make up your own mind.  -Matt



 >From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
 >Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
 >To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
 >CC: "njfo list" <njfo@yahoogroups.com>
 >Subject: [njfo] RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC
 >Absent the Day o f the Attack
 >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:04:23 -0400
 >
 >Matt,
 >
 >You're spreading gross conspiracy theories and considerably undermining
 >your
 >intelligence in the eye of this list -- or else trying to insult its
 >intelligence by assuming that this sort of nonsense would be accepted, 
much
 >less 'spread.'
 >
 >Al-Manar Television, the disseminator of this so-called 'news', is "a
 >Lebanese TV station, aims to preserve the Islamic values and to enhance 
the
 >civilized role of the Arab and Islamic Community. Political, cultural and
 >social affairs are of special importance o the station's programs. Most
 >important is
 >the struggle against Zionism/racism."  In the past several days, they have
 >produced other reporting gems -- "Did Israel Attack the Pentagon and World
 >Trade Center?" -- "U.S. Military Could Be Behind The Sept. 11 Terrorist
 >Attacks" -- and other, possibly a bit less surreal, but nonetheless very
 >evidently biased and juicy bits which would easily shame The Enquirer and
 >The Star.
 >
 >http://paknews.com/flash.php?id=27&date1=2001-09-18
 >
 >Your posts could be viewed from my perspective only as provocation, 
whether
 >it is due to your own naivete or some other unfortunate force, you do more
 >to harm the cause of those who wish to see violence abate than appear as
 >any
 >defender thereof.  Maybe your angst runs so far as to make you no better
 >than those you claim to oppose.
 >
 >Chris
 >
 >-----Original Message-----
 >From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
 >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:25 AM
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com; poprogress@yahoogroups.com;
 >njfo@yahoogroups.com; onepeoplescoalition@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
 >Day o f the Attack
 >
 >
 >
 >READ THIS AND SPREAD THE WORD
 >
 >
 >
 > >From: "Nurfette !" Subject: Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli
 > >Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001
 > >14:59:56 +0000
 > >
 >
 >
 >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
 >----
 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
 >
 >          Previous   Next | Close
 >
 >From :
 >"Nurfette !" <nurfette@...>
 >
 >Subject :
 >Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the 
Day
 >o f the Attack
 >
 >Date :
 >Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:59:56 +0000
 >
 >
 > >From: "Khalid S. Khan" To: islamirc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ISLAMirc]
 > >BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the
 >Attack
 > >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:02:36 +0000
 > >
 > >4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack
 > >
 > >Manar TV - Sept 17, 2001 < http://www.manartv.com/> With the 
announcement
 > >of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New York, the international
 > >media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to take advantage of the
 > >incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work at the two towers.
 > >Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those Israelis and
 > >later it became clear that they remarkably did not show up in their jobs
 > >the day the incident took place. No one talked about any Israeli being
 > >killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to 
the
 > >Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that 
day
 > >based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the Shabak,
 >the
 > >fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on American officials who 
wanted
 > >to know how the Israeli government learned about the incident before it
 > >occurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing the U.S
 > >authorities of the information it had. Suspicions had increased further
 > >after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that the Shabak 
prevented
 > >Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York and particularly
 >to
 > >the citys eastern coast to participate in a festival organized by the
 > >Zionist organizations in support of the "Israel". Aharon Bernie, the
 > >commentator at the newspaper, brought up the issue and came up with a
 > >negative conclusion, saying no answer. He then asked about the clue
 >behind
 > >the Shabaks position in preventing Sharons participation, and again
 >without
 > >giving an answer. Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for having
 > >his speech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of the
 > >organization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change its position,
 >but
 > >his attempts were in vein. The next day after Sharons secretary
 >officially
 > >announced that Sharon would not participate the incident took place. For
 > >its part, the Israeli Haaretz newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested
 >five
 > >Israelis four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming 
the
 > >smoking skyline from the roof of their companys building. The FBI had
 > >arrested the five for puzzling behavior. They are said to have been
 >caught
 > >videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and
 > >mockery. =======
 > >
 > >
 > >VISIT: < HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET > WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE 
ANYWHERE
 > >IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!!!!
 > >
 > >DEFINING APARTHEID
 > >
 > >Article 2 of the "International Convention of the Suppression and
 > >Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid" of 1973 clearly defined the term
 > >"crime of apartheid." This includes similar policies and practices of
 > >segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa and which
 >also
 > >apply to inhuman acts committed for the purpose of the establishment and
 > >maintaining of domination by one racial group over another. This 
includes
 > >the deliberated imposition of living conditions calculated to cause
 > >physical destruction and any legislative or other measures preventing a
 > >racial group from full development of their political, social, economic
 >and
 > >cultural life. This is an accurate description of what the zionists are
 > >doing to the Palestinian people with the full support of the USA.
 > >
 > >
 > >_________________________________________________________________ Get
 >your
 > >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________
 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >
 >
 >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 >
 >
 >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >
 >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >
 >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >


_________________________________________________________________
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To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

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To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2081
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-20 00:05:44
Subject:Fwd: next activity
Message:

>
>   The AMA invites all other RU organizations to participate in a
>"RALLY FOR PEACE" this Thursday September 20th between 5
>and 7 PM at the Brower Commons. Our intention is to discuss the
>ALTERNATIVES to WAR, because as history has proven, war and hatred 
>begetmore war and hatred. And though we are all deeply saddened by the 
>massiveloss of life resulting from the tragic events of September 11th, WE 
>DO NOT SEE WAR AS A SOLUTION to any answer, anywhere in the world.
>
>We have a confirmed booking for the Brower Commons for THIS THURSDAY at 5 
>PM, and we are also attempting to organize an actual 60's style rally 
>within a few weeks, through New Brunswick (provided N.B. police have no 
>reservations about our safety) For this event, we will need volunteers.
>
>If a representative from your respective organizations would like to sing a 
>song, read a poem, or even say a little something on THURSDAY
>infront of BROWER COMMONS regarding the horrors of war, please email me or 
>call me at 732-407-8772.
>
>Member organizations participating thus far include: Douglas College 
>Government Association, Food Not Bombs, AMA, PSA. If your organization 
>would like to become an official sponsor of this event, please let me know 
>ASAP.
>
>COME AND SUPPORT PEACE!
>
>Thank You,
>
>Rizwan Chaudhry
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2082
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-20 10:20:52
Subject:Peoples War on Schundler
Message:

Schundler stands by Robertson, won't return cash

               Published in the Home News Tribune 9/19/01

               By SANDY McCLURE
               GANNETT STATE BUREAU

  TRENTON -- Bret Schundler, the conservative Republican candidate for 
governor, will not return a $2,600 campaign contribution from his friend Pat 
Robertson.

   Nor will he repudiate remarks made by the conservative evangelist, who 
placed blame for the terrorist attacks on civil-liberties               
groups, feminists, homosexuals and abortion-rights supporters who forced an 
angry God to remove his protection of America.

               President Bush and others immediately denounced the comments 
made by the Rev. Jerry Falwell - agreed to by Robertson,
voices for the religious right, on Robertson's TV program Thursday.

               Since returning to the United States from Israel where he was 
visiting during the attack on America, Schundler has refused             
comment on Robertson's remarks.

               "There is no plan to return the (Robertson) contribution," 
said campaign spokesman Bill Guhl. "I don't think this is an issue that Bret 
thinks is really relevant at this point, particularly since Falwell has 
apologized. This is not something that Bret is going to make a big deal 
about. He does not think it is something people should be focused on at this 
point."

               The Schundler campaign was only willing to say that Falwell's 
subsequent apology was "appropriate."

               The Schundler campaign's silence was questioned yesterday on 
several fronts.

               "We feel the comments (of Robertson) to be inappropriate," 
said Democratic candidate Jim McGreevey's spokesman, Richard
               McGrath. "The failure of the Schundler campaign to repudiate 
them is disappointing."

               David Smith, spokesman for the Human Rights Campaign, the 
largest gay- and lesbian-advocacy organization in the nation, said,          
      "We are saddened by the fact that he (Schundler) did not take steps to 
distance himself from the (Robertson) remarks."

               "I believe that insane (terrorist) actions should not be 
supported by intolerant comments, and intolerant comments should not be      
          supported by silence," said political strategist and McGreevey 
supporter John Torok, of North Brunswick, who said, as an
               American, he was outraged.

           Torok charged that Schundler was trying not to anger the 
religious right.

               Robertson issued a statement Monday saying that the Falwell 
comments, which he agreed with during the TV program, were not               
fully understood during the program.

               In a press release Friday, Robertson, however, issued his own 
statement, pointing to rampant pornography on the Internet,               
secularism, the occult and abortions.

               "It (terrorism) is happening because God Almighty is lifting 
his protection from us," Robertson said.

               The Schundler campaign said he met privately yesterday with 
pastors and Bill Bennett, the former U.S. secretary of education,            
    on the proper role of the religious community in the aftermath of the 
attacks.

               During a Monday press conference, Schundler attributed 
terrorist assaults on the United States and Israel to repressive regimes 
that shore up their domestic power by focusing anger at an external enemy.

               � 2001 Gannett New Jersey Group


               from the Home News Tribune

               Published: September 19, 2001

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2083
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-20 10:48:39
Subject:RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack
Message:

well son,
you just keep on
tunin in cnn then


>From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the 
>Day o f the Attack
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:35:47 -0400
>
>If one is as bent on one's pre-packaged world view, and as indifferent to
>the pursuit of truth as one cliff smith -- no doubt.  But that is an
>indictment against you to begin with, and certainly no news to me.
>
>As far as I'm concerned, you're no less an agent of international finance
>capital or the military-industrial complex than 'they' are.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: cliff smith [mailto:cliffsmith69@...]
>Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 10:31 PM
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent
>the Day o f the Attack
>
>
>true or not,
>is easier to swallow, conspiracy-wise,
>than the farce that
>the wtc was demolished
>w/ boxcutters
>
>
> >From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
> >CC: "njfo list" <njfo@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent 
>the
> >Day o f the Attack
> >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:04:23 -0400
> >
> >Matt,
> >
> >You're spreading gross conspiracy theories and considerably undermining
> >your
> >intelligence in the eye of this list -- or else trying to insult its
> >intelligence by assuming that this sort of nonsense would be accepted, 
>much
> >less 'spread.'
> >
> >Al-Manar Television, the disseminator of this so-called 'news', is "a
> >Lebanese TV station, aims to preserve the Islamic values and to enhance 
>the
> >civilized role of the Arab and Islamic Community. Political, cultural and
> >social affairs are of special importance o the station's programs. Most
> >important is
> >the struggle against Zionism/racism."  In the past several days, they 
>have
> >produced other reporting gems -- "Did Israel Attack the Pentagon and 
>World
> >Trade Center?" -- "U.S. Military Could Be Behind The Sept. 11 Terrorist
> >Attacks" -- and other, possibly a bit less surreal, but nonetheless very
> >evidently biased and juicy bits which would easily shame The Enquirer and
> >The Star.
> >
> >http://paknews.com/flash.php?id=27&date1=2001-09-18
> >
> >Your posts could be viewed from my perspective only as provocation, 
>whether
> >it is due to your own naivete or some other unfortunate force, you do 
>more
> >to harm the cause of those who wish to see violence abate than appear as
> >any
> >defender thereof.  Maybe your angst runs so far as to make you no better
> >than those you claim to oppose.
> >
> >Chris
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:25 AM
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com; poprogress@yahoogroups.com;
> >njfo@yahoogroups.com; onepeoplescoalition@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
> >Day o f the Attack
> >
> >
> >
> >READ THIS AND SPREAD THE WORD
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Nurfette !" Subject: Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli
> > >Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001
> > >14:59:56 +0000
> > >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
> >----
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
> >
> >          Previous   Next | Close
> >
> >From :
> >"Nurfette !" <nurfette@...>
> >
> >Subject :
> >Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the 
>Day
> >o f the Attack
> >
> >Date :
> >Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:59:56 +0000
> >
> >
> > >From: "Khalid S. Khan" To: islamirc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ISLAMirc]
> > >BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the
> >Attack
> > >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:02:36 +0000
> > >
> > >4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack
> > >
> > >Manar TV - Sept 17, 2001 < http://www.manartv.com/> With the 
>announcement
> > >of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New York, the international
> > >media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to take advantage of the
> > >incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work at the two towers.
> > >Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those Israelis and
> > >later it became clear that they remarkably did not show up in their 
>jobs
> > >the day the incident took place. No one talked about any Israeli being
> > >killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to 
>the
> > >Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that 
>day
> > >based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the Shabak,
> >the
> > >fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on American officials who 
>wanted
> > >to know how the Israeli government learned about the incident before it
> > >occurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing the U.S
> > >authorities of the information it had. Suspicions had increased further
> > >after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that the Shabak 
>prevented
> > >Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York and 
>particularly
> >to
> > >the citys eastern coast to participate in a festival organized by the
> > >Zionist organizations in support of the "Israel". Aharon Bernie, the
> > >commentator at the newspaper, brought up the issue and came up with a
> > >negative conclusion, saying no answer. He then asked about the clue
> >behind
> > >the Shabaks position in preventing Sharons participation, and again
> >without
> > >giving an answer. Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for 
>having
> > >his speech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of the
> > >organization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change its position,
> >but
> > >his attempts were in vein. The next day after Sharons secretary
> >officially
> > >announced that Sharon would not participate the incident took place. 
>For
> > >its part, the Israeli Haaretz newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested
> >five
> > >Israelis four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming 
>the
> > >smoking skyline from the roof of their companys building. The FBI had
> > >arrested the five for puzzling behavior. They are said to have been
> >caught
> > >videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and
> > >mockery. =======
> > >
> > >
> > >VISIT: < HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET > WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE 
>ANYWHERE
> > >IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!!!!
> > >
> > >DEFINING APARTHEID
> > >
> > >Article 2 of the "International Convention of the Suppression and
> > >Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid" of 1973 clearly defined the term
> > >"crime of apartheid." This includes similar policies and practices of
> > >segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa and which
> >also
> > >apply to inhuman acts committed for the purpose of the establishment 
>and
> > >maintaining of domination by one racial group over another. This 
>includes
> > >the deliberated imposition of living conditions calculated to cause
> > >physical destruction and any legislative or other measures preventing a
> > >racial group from full development of their political, social, economic
> >and
> > >cultural life. This is an accurate description of what the zionists are
> > >doing to the Palestinian people with the full support of the USA.
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________ Get
> >your
> > >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2084
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-20 11:10:43
Subject:music
Message:

Music
by Duke Ellington

Music is a beautiful woman in her prime,
Music is a scrubwoman, clearing away the dirt and grime,
Music is a girl child
Simple, sweet and beaming,
A thousand years old,
Cold as sleet, and scheming.

Wise and patient,
Unfathomably kind,
Music is the woman you always wanted to find.

As fragile as a flower,
A single petal of a rose,
And what you think you think,
She already knows she knows.

A system of ribbons,
A multiplicity of ramifications,
Sparkling from her brain down through her core,
A million facets of gossamer sensations.

And you could be
A most inadequate bore.

Music is a gourgeous bitch,...
A volcano of desire
Makes you blood to boil
As you get higher and higher.

Music is like the woman
Who is like mathematics:
Music is a woman who's true.

No matter how well you know her,
There's always more to learn;
An endless adventure, every day she's brand-new
Music is that woman, who
You'll hope will say,
"There's very jew who do a new-do like you do."
But, alas, you're the victim of her coup,
'Cause she can always satisfy you.

Music is the woman
You follow day after day;
Music is the woman
Who always has her way.

The topless chick--
You like to see shake it--
No matter how hard you try,
You never quite make it.

When you don't hear her,
You desperately miss her,
And when you embrace her,
You wish you could kiss her.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2085
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-20 12:33:27
Subject:langston hughes
Message:

Frosting
by Langston Hughes

Freedom
Is just frosting
On somebody else's
Cake--
And so must be
Till we
Learn how to
Bake.


Mother in Wartime

As if it were some noble thing,
She spoke of sons at war,
As if freedom's cause
Were pled anew at some heroic bar,
As if the weapons used today
Killed with great elan,
As if technicolor banners flew
To honor modern man--
Believing everything she read
In the daily news,
(No in-between to choose)
She thought that only
One side won,
Not that both
Might lose.


Official Notice

Dear Death:
I got your message
That my son is dead
The ink you used
To write it
Is the blood he bled.
You say he died with honor
On the battlefield,
And that I am honored, too,
By this bloody yield.
Your letter
Signed in blood,
With his blood
I sealed.


Without Benefit of Declaration

Listen here, Joe,
Don't you know
that tomorrow
You got to go
Out yonder where
The the steel winds blow?

Listen here, kid,
It's been said
Tomorrow you'll be dead
Out there where
The rain is lead.

Don't ask me why.
Just go ahead and die.
Hidden from the sky
Out yonder you'll lie:
A medal to your family--
In exchange for
	A guy.

Mama, don't cry.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2086
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-20 14:17:04
Subject:Fwd: Muslim group asks for peace
Message:

>Muslim group asks for peace
>By: Margie Watson, Staff Writer
>
>
>09/20/01
>--------------------------
>
>On the heels of the Pentagons order to send almost 100 combat aircraft to 
>the Persian Gulf area, the American Muslim Alliance will hold a Rally for 
>Peace today on the steps of Brower Commons on the College Avenue campus 
>between 5 p.m. and 7 p.m.
>
>According to a prepared statement, the rally will discuss the alternatives 
>to war, because as history has proven, war and hatred beget more war and 
>hatred.
>
>Rizwan Chaudhry, a University College senior, AMA member and the rally?s 
>organizer, said, Because of the media?s quick reaction to laying blame [for 
>last Tuesday's terrorist attacks] to the Muslims, as they have done in the 
>past, we may not be going into this war clearheaded.
>
>Chaudhry said students should come to the rally because "peace is the only 
>way." He added, "Despite the fact that these murderers went out and 
>committed such a horrendous crime, [the United States] shouldn't lay our 
>humanity aside. The people in Afghanistan don?t have to suffer because of 
>the crimes of a few."
>
>If given the opportunity to advise President George W. Bush on how to 
>respond to the terrorist attacks, Chaudhry said, "I would say take it slow. 
>Find out who actually committed the crimes. Instead of bombing on 
>suspicion, find out who the culprits are and go after the culprits."
>
>In the statement, Chaudhry noted, "We have seen enough violence in the 
>world, and thus we are firmly committed to peace and alternate ways of 
>dealing with the greater universal menace of ignorance."
>
>The rally will also touch upon "the current backlash felt by the American 
>Muslim communities throughout America," the statement noted. Chaudhry noted 
>that Muslim students at the University have also received unkind stares and 
>had "bad experiences."
>
>?We decided to hold [the rally] because we thought " [with] the current way 
>things are looking in America, some Muslims are getting a pretty bad wrap 
>and the media is only aggravating the situation," Chaudhry said. He noted, 
>"The American Muslims are indeed Americans," adding that he hopes the rally 
>will help educate students about Islam.
>
>Other organizations participating in the rally include the Douglass College 
>Government Association, Food Not Bombs, the New Brunswick People?s 
>Campaign, Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy, Central 
>Jersey Coalition for Peace, Sisterhood and Struggle and the Pakistani 
>Students Association.
>--------------------------
>Story Source: The Daily Targum
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2087
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-20 14:30:02
Subject:Fwd: Governing body votes to support peace rally
Message:

>
>Governing body votes to support peace rally
>By: Brendan Doohan
>
>
>09/19/01
>--------------------------
>
>Issues surrounding last Tuesday?s terrorist attack on the World Trade 
>Center dominated Tuesday night?s Douglass College Government Association 
>meeting in the New Jersey Commuter Lounge of the college center. The group 
>dealt with the GA?s role in today?s rally for peace and ways in which the 
>association can aid victims of the tragedy.
>
>The rally, sponsored by ISRU and the AMA, will be held today on the steps 
>of Brower Commons on the College Avenue campus, said Rizwan Chaudhry, a 
>University College senior and a member of the AMA, ISRU and the Pakistani 
>Student Association. Chaundhry said the rally is in response to the recent 
>attacks on certain Middle-Eastern and South Asian students. Rizwan asked 
>the GA to support the rally, the goal of which is to promote peace on 
>campus and support Muslim and South Asian-American students against 
>harassment that stems from anger over last
>
>Tuesday?s attacks.
>
>Initially, some GA members withheld support out of concern over potentially 
>misrepresenting the college community during this emotional time. But after 
>a period of debate, a majority of the members voted to support the rally 
>after its purpose was clarified. The GA members concluded that supporting 
>an event, regardless of its political stance, is permissible as long as the 
>general public is free to participate and express its opinions, Charlotte 
>Kates, GA treasurer and a senior, said.
>
>?We?re not one-sided on our issues. We do assess every aspect of the 
>situation,? Colleen Smith, a member of the 2004 class and head of the 
>Public Relations Committee, said. ?We aim to represent everyone of the 
>Douglass College community.?
>
>?By cosponsoring this event, the DCGA can show support and solidarity for 
>Rutgers organizations, including the Islamic communities,? Audrey Allred, 
>the external vice president and a senior, said. ?Any form of racial 
>oppression or bigotry is against the principle of free discussion.?
>
>In other business, the GA unanimously passed a resolution support the 
>September 11th Coalition - a campus group trying to organize support from 
>campus organizations in an effort to aid in the aftermath of the tragedy. 
>Rutgers College sophomore Gillis Cheng said the group plans to provide 
>donation jars, enable students at each dinning hall to sign away an 
>unprecedented maximum of two meals for those in need and provide students 
>with the opportunity to sign a pledge of tolerance. Cheng said the proceeds 
>will be donated to The September 11th Fund, established by United Way and 
>The New York Community Trust.
>
>Cheng called the efforts a ?chance for unity and solidarity with our 
>community.?
>--------------------------
>Story Source: The Daily Targum
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2088
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-20 15:49:47
Subject:Smash Sectarianism!
Message:

I find it astounding, and worse frightening, that despite what's happened 
since 9-11, & despite that even Chomsky has characterized this as :"the 
crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right" that the Petty Bourg. left has 
resumed the same Petty Bickering as before & can't find to find grounds to 
Unite. Look- either we get it together, or, as Baraka aptly put it, "We're 
all out of here."  This is not to say that we don't Struggle over lines, but 
if we practise being principled about it, we might get the hang of it.

-Unite, Critisism, Unity (Transformation)
Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the 
Day o f the Attack
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:35:47 -0400

If one is as bent on one's pre-packaged world view, and as indifferent to
the pursuit of truth as one cliff smith -- no doubt.  But that is an
indictment against you to begin with, and certainly no news to me.

As far as I'm concerned, you're no less an agent of international finance
capital or the military-industrial complex than 'they' are.


-----Original Message-----
From: cliff smith [mailto:cliffsmith69@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 10:31 PM
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent
the Day o f the Attack


true or not,
is easier to swallow, conspiracy-wise,
than the farce that
the wtc was demolished
w/ boxcutters


 >From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
 >CC: "njfo list" <njfo@yahoogroups.com>
 >Subject: RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent 
the
 >Day o f the Attack
 >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:04:23 -0400
 >
 >Matt,
 >
 >You're spreading gross conspiracy theories and considerably undermining
 >your
 >intelligence in the eye of this list -- or else trying to insult its
 >intelligence by assuming that this sort of nonsense would be accepted, 
much
 >less 'spread.'
 >
 >Al-Manar Television, the disseminator of this so-called 'news', is "a
 >Lebanese TV station, aims to preserve the Islamic values and to enhance 
the
 >civilized role of the Arab and Islamic Community. Political, cultural and
 >social affairs are of special importance o the station's programs. Most
 >important is
 >the struggle against Zionism/racism."  In the past several days, they have
 >produced other reporting gems -- "Did Israel Attack the Pentagon and World
 >Trade Center?" -- "U.S. Military Could Be Behind The Sept. 11 Terrorist
 >Attacks" -- and other, possibly a bit less surreal, but nonetheless very
 >evidently biased and juicy bits which would easily shame The Enquirer and
 >The Star.
 >
 >http://paknews.com/flash.php?id=27&date1=2001-09-18
 >
 >Your posts could be viewed from my perspective only as provocation, 
whether
 >it is due to your own naivete or some other unfortunate force, you do more
 >to harm the cause of those who wish to see violence abate than appear as
 >any
 >defender thereof.  Maybe your angst runs so far as to make you no better
 >than those you claim to oppose.
 >
 >Chris
 >
 >-----Original Message-----
 >From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
 >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:25 AM
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com; poprogress@yahoogroups.com;
 >njfo@yahoogroups.com; onepeoplescoalition@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
 >Day o f the Attack
 >
 >
 >
 >READ THIS AND SPREAD THE WORD
 >
 >
 >
 > >From: "Nurfette !" Subject: Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli
 > >Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001
 > >14:59:56 +0000
 > >
 >
 >
 >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
 >----
 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
 >
 >          Previous   Next | Close
 >
 >From :
 >"Nurfette !" <nurfette@...>
 >
 >Subject :
 >Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the 
Day
 >o f the Attack
 >
 >Date :
 >Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:59:56 +0000
 >
 >
 > >From: "Khalid S. Khan" To: islamirc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ISLAMirc]
 > >BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the
 >Attack
 > >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:02:36 +0000
 > >
 > >4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack
 > >
 > >Manar TV - Sept 17, 2001 < http://www.manartv.com/> With the 
announcement
 > >of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New York, the international
 > >media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to take advantage of the
 > >incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work at the two towers.
 > >Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those Israelis and
 > >later it became clear that they remarkably did not show up in their jobs
 > >the day the incident took place. No one talked about any Israeli being
 > >killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to 
the
 > >Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that 
day
 > >based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the Shabak,
 >the
 > >fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on American officials who 
wanted
 > >to know how the Israeli government learned about the incident before it
 > >occurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing the U.S
 > >authorities of the information it had. Suspicions had increased further
 > >after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that the Shabak 
prevented
 > >Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York and particularly
 >to
 > >the citys eastern coast to participate in a festival organized by the
 > >Zionist organizations in support of the "Israel". Aharon Bernie, the
 > >commentator at the newspaper, brought up the issue and came up with a
 > >negative conclusion, saying no answer. He then asked about the clue
 >behind
 > >the Shabaks position in preventing Sharons participation, and again
 >without
 > >giving an answer. Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for having
 > >his speech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of the
 > >organization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change its position,
 >but
 > >his attempts were in vein. The next day after Sharons secretary
 >officially
 > >announced that Sharon would not participate the incident took place. For
 > >its part, the Israeli Haaretz newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested
 >five
 > >Israelis four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming 
the
 > >smoking skyline from the roof of their companys building. The FBI had
 > >arrested the five for puzzling behavior. They are said to have been
 >caught
 > >videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and
 > >mockery. =======
 > >
 > >
 > >VISIT: < HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET > WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE 
ANYWHERE
 > >IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!!!!
 > >
 > >DEFINING APARTHEID
 > >
 > >Article 2 of the "International Convention of the Suppression and
 > >Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid" of 1973 clearly defined the term
 > >"crime of apartheid." This includes similar policies and practices of
 > >segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa and which
 >also
 > >apply to inhuman acts committed for the purpose of the establishment and
 > >maintaining of domination by one racial group over another. This 
includes
 > >the deliberated imposition of living conditions calculated to cause
 > >physical destruction and any legislative or other measures preventing a
 > >racial group from full development of their political, social, economic
 >and
 > >cultural life. This is an accurate description of what the zionists are
 > >doing to the Palestinian people with the full support of the USA.
 > >
 > >
 > >_________________________________________________________________ Get
 >your
 > >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________
 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >
 >
 >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 >
 >
 >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >
 >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >
 >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2089
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-20 16:37:51
Subject:anti-war protests
Message:






                Terrorist attacks transform
                protest theme from
                anti-globalization to anti-war

                By DAVID HO
                The Associated Press
                9/20/01 3:10 PM

                WASHINGTON (AP) -- Demonstrators who planned to
                protest the now-canceled meetings of the World Bank and
                International Monetary Fund are still coming to the nation's
                capital this month. Now their protests will be about war and
                racism.

                The global financial organizations called off this year's
                annual meetings after last week's terrorist attacks. Groups
                representing most of the expected protesters also
                canceled their demonstrations, many citing a need to
                respect victims of the attacks.

                But the New York-based International Action Center and
                other groups still intend to assemble thousands of
                protesters across from the White House on Sept. 29.

                "We are demonstrating because of the imminent danger of
                a wider war, one that could result in the deaths of tens of
                thousands or hundreds of thousands more people in
                addition to the victims of the tragedy on Sept. 11," said
                organizer Richard Becker.

                He said the protesters also oppose the backlash against
                Arabs and Muslims and the Bush administration's efforts to
                expand police powers following the attack.

                While Becker said the group has a permit for the rally and
                march, it is uncertain whether increased security around
                the White House will allow it to go forward.

                Secret Service spokesman Jim Mackin said he had to
                consult with the National Park Service before commenting.
                The park service didn't immediately return calls seeking
                comment.

                District of Columbia Police Chief Charles Ramsey said he
                has no problem with the protesters as long as they're
                peaceful.

                "But it remains to be seen how they would be welcomed if
                they come to the city under the circumstances," Ramsey
                said.

                He said police would be watching for other demonstrators
                who, angered by challenges to the appearance of
                American unity, might clash with the anti-war protesters.

                Police have blamed anarchists for much of the violence at
                anti-globalization protests during the past few years. A
                Washington-based anarchist group, the Anti-Capitalist
                Convergence, has announced plans for a separate anti-war
                march on Sept. 29.

                Before the terrorist attacks, police had said they expected
                as many as 100,000 protesters and wanted help from other
                jurisdictions, including New York City. Ramsey said his
                force, along with federal authorities, should be able to
                handle the scaled-back demonstrations.

                ------

                On the Net:

                District of Columbia police: http://mpdc.dc.gov

                International Action Center: http://www.iacenter.org

                Anti-Capitalist Convergence:
                http://www.abolishthebank.org/en/new--call.html

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This 
material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2090
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-20 16:43:26
Subject:No investigation, no right to speak
Message:

Kris- I reread your response and it's very confusing to me...why would you 
so forcefully admonish exploring all angles, searching all possibilities?  
Where lies the truth?  Fox5 owned by Murdock? Or Ch9 News, owned by Murdock? 
or CH11 running CNN, originial War on Iraq propaganda machine? All the 
liberal outlets, including PBS & NPR are running fast under the Far Right's 
Wing & Marching to the War Drum. Charlie Rose interviewed a US Military 
Officer last night, who was talking about CIA's "So-Called Human" 
concerns.(!)  Another guest labeled the attack "An Act of Genocide" against 
the US (I almost fell out of my chair) These are the madmen running the show 
from now on,(eg, the far-right) & rapidly leading the sheep to slaughter 
("In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hope > 
 > to use force to control their domains" Noam Chomsky)

So every bit of information is worth reviewing.  (BTW: Who shot Lincoln, 
both Kennedy's, MLK, & MalcolmX? Lone gunmen? All other information & angles 
"gross conspiracy theories"? ) So I'm not interested in the least about 
meeting your "intelligence" standard. I send out information that I think is 
worth looking at, & I haven't concluded anything other than the 
Imperialist's Attack Theory is suspect at best & concure with Chomsky that 
it's very convenient for Bush&Co.

It is tiring to reading your posts determining who is "no better than the 
enemy".  This isn't an intellectual excercise.  We have to rise out of this 
mode of pointing fingers at each other, but struggle over the best way to 
move foward, & most importantly Unite the Left!!  We'll soon see how that is 
going to be more difficult than ever, under the new circumstances, but 
there's no choice.

No More Sectarianism! (PB's Petty Bickering)
Left-Bloc Unity & Principled Struggle!

-Matthew





----Original Message Follows----
From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
CC: "njfo list" <njfo@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the 
Day o f the Attack
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:04:23 -0400

Matt,

You're spreading gross conspiracy theories and considerably undermining your
intelligence in the eye of this list -- or else trying to insult its
intelligence by assuming that this sort of nonsense would be accepted, much
less 'spread.'

Al-Manar Television, the disseminator of this so-called 'news', is "a
Lebanese TV station, aims to preserve the Islamic values and to enhance the
civilized role of the Arab and Islamic Community. Political, cultural and
social affairs are of special importance o the station's programs. Most
important is
the struggle against Zionism/racism."  In the past several days, they have
produced other reporting gems -- "Did Israel Attack the Pentagon and World
Trade Center?" -- "U.S. Military Could Be Behind The Sept. 11 Terrorist
Attacks" -- and other, possibly a bit less surreal, but nonetheless very
evidently biased and juicy bits which would easily shame The Enquirer and
The Star.

http://paknews.com/flash.php?id=27&date1=2001-09-18

Your posts could be viewed from my perspective only as provocation, whether
it is due to your own naivete or some other unfortunate force, you do more
to harm the cause of those who wish to see violence abate than appear as any
defender thereof.  Maybe your angst runs so far as to make you no better
than those you claim to oppose.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:25 AM
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com; poprogress@yahoogroups.com;
njfo@yahoogroups.com; onepeoplescoalition@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
Day o f the Attack



READ THIS AND SPREAD THE WORD



 >From: "Nurfette !" Subject: Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli
 >Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001
 >14:59:56 +0000
 >


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.

          Previous   Next | Close

From :
"Nurfette !" <nurfette@...>

Subject :
Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day
o f the Attack

Date :
Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:59:56 +0000


 >From: "Khalid S. Khan" To: islamirc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ISLAMirc]
 >BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack
 >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:02:36 +0000
 >
 >4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack
 >
 >Manar TV - Sept 17, 2001 < http://www.manartv.com/> With the announcement
 >of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New York, the international
 >media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to take advantage of the
 >incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work at the two towers.
 >Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those Israelis and
 >later it became clear that they remarkably did not show up in their jobs
 >the day the incident took place. No one talked about any Israeli being
 >killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to the
 >Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that day
 >based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the Shabak, 
the
 >fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on American officials who wanted
 >to know how the Israeli government learned about the incident before it
 >occurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing the U.S
 >authorities of the information it had. Suspicions had increased further
 >after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that the Shabak prevented
 >Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York and particularly 
to
 >the citys eastern coast to participate in a festival organized by the
 >Zionist organizations in support of the "Israel". Aharon Bernie, the
 >commentator at the newspaper, brought up the issue and came up with a
 >negative conclusion, saying no answer. He then asked about the clue behind
 >the Shabaks position in preventing Sharons participation, and again 
without
 >giving an answer. Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for having
 >his speech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of the
 >organization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change its position, 
but
 >his attempts were in vein. The next day after Sharons secretary officially
 >announced that Sharon would not participate the incident took place. For
 >its part, the Israeli Haaretz newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested 
five
 >Israelis four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming the
 >smoking skyline from the roof of their companys building. The FBI had
 >arrested the five for puzzling behavior. They are said to have been caught
 >videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and
 >mockery. =======
 >
 >
 >VISIT: < HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET > WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE ANYWHERE
 >IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!!!!
 >
 >DEFINING APARTHEID
 >
 >Article 2 of the "International Convention of the Suppression and
 >Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid" of 1973 clearly defined the term
 >"crime of apartheid." This includes similar policies and practices of
 >segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa and which also
 >apply to inhuman acts committed for the purpose of the establishment and
 >maintaining of domination by one racial group over another. This includes
 >the deliberated imposition of living conditions calculated to cause
 >physical destruction and any legislative or other measures preventing a
 >racial group from full development of their political, social, economic 
and
 >cultural life. This is an accurate description of what the zionists are
 >doing to the Palestinian people with the full support of the USA.
 >
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________ Get your
 >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Post ID:2092
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-21 10:29:08
Subject:the emperor's no clothes
Message:

impeach bush2, for his own protection.

the all-in stakes imperial bluff has overextended its play.  bush2's war 
speech names 60 nations to surrender soveriegnty, "or face the 
consequences."

american suffering for the wtc victims does not yet translate to all-out 
frenzy for "the biggest engagement in us history."  &especially since the 
war fiends show no proof of the enemy.
(because the culprits is they.)

come super bowl sunday, the flags will tuck into closets, and the fiends 
will be played out.  or they must push further, like true junkies, to 
imperial overdose &the final nod.

w/o 100% native support, 100% repression is required to work this global 
warfix.  marines on the streetcorner type lockdown.  prisoners thrown to the 
front line.  no dissent.  the wtc hit opened the door, but didn't make the 
nut.

the fiends need something else, even more spectacular, to stage the "final 
solution".  like some "independence day" whitehouse evaporation.  fratboy 
bush2 (who has now expended his imperial use &is more a liability under 
pressure) is perfect mark for "sacrificial lamb" to galvanize the 
warmachine.  former defense secretary cheney to command-in-chief, &c.

like the towers' corporate officers, even hizzonor is expendable to the 
hawks.  for his own safety, b2 must be impeached &spill the beans.  we can 
guarantee a fair trial.  else littlebush is over his head.

9/20/01
cliff smith
student/worker organization for revolutionary democracy
holla at me

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Post ID:2094
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-21 15:18:33
Subject:Fwd: Noam Chomsky
Message:



>
>On the Bombings
>by
>Noam Chomsky
>
>The terrorist attacks were major atrocities. In scale they may not reach 
>the
>level of many others, for example, Clinton's bombing of the Sudan with no
>credible pretext, destroying half its pharmaceutical supplies and killing
>unknown numbers of people (no one knows, because the US blocked an inquiry
>at the UN and no one cares to pursue it). Not to speak of much worse cases,
>which easily come to mind. But that this was a horrendous crime is not in
>doubt. The primary victims, as usual, were working people: janitors,
>secretaries, firemen, etc. It is likely to prove to be a crushing blow to
>Palestinians and other poor and oppressed people. It is also likely to lead
>to harsh security controls, with many possible ramifications for 
>undermining
>civil liberties and internal freedom.
>
>The events reveal, dramatically, the foolishness of the project of "missile
>defense." As has been obvious all along, and pointed out repeatedly by
>strategic analysts, if anyone wants to cause immense damage in the US,
>including weapons of mass destruction, they are highly unlikely to launch a
>missile attack, thus guaranteeing their immediate destruction. There are
>innumerable easier ways that are basically unstoppable. But today's events
>will, very likely, be exploited to increase the pressure to develop these
>systems and put them into place. "Defense" is a thin cover for plans for
>militarization of space, and with good PR, even the flimsiest arguments 
>will
>carry some weight among a frightened public.
>
>In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hope to
>use force to control their domains. That is even putting aside the likely 
>US
>actions, and what they will trigger -- possibly more attacks like this one,
>or worse. The prospects ahead are even more ominous than they appeared to 
>be
>before the latest atrocities.
>
>As to how to react, we have a choice. We can express justified horror; we
>can seek to understand what may have led to the crimes, which means making
>an effort to enter the minds of the likely perpetrators. If we choose the
>latter course, we can do no better, I think, than to listen to the words of
>Robert Fisk, whose direct knowledge and insight into affairs of the region
>is unmatched after many years of distinguished reporting. Describing "The
>wickedness and awesome cruelty of a crushed and humiliated people," he
>writes that "this is not the war of democracy versus terror that the world
>will be asked to believe in the coming days. It is also about American
>missiles smashing into Palestinian homes and US helicopters firing missiles
>into a Lebanese ambulance in 1996 and American shells crashing into a
>village called Qana and about a Lebanese militia - paid and uniformed by
>America's Israeli ally - hacking and raping and murdering their way through
>refugee camps." And much more. Again, we have a choice: we may try to
>understand, or refuse to do so, contributing to the likelihood that much
>worse lies ahead.
>
>
>Sabah M. Safi
>Associate Professor of Linguistics
>King Abdulaziz University
>P.O. Box 15236
>Jeddah 21444
>Saudi Arabia
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>


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Post ID:2095
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-21 20:58:51
Subject:va gov race
Message:






                Debate thrusts leadership,
                experience and public safety
                to fore in Va. gubernatorial
                campaign

                By BOB LEWIS
                The Associated Press
                9/21/01 8:37 PM

                FALLS CHURCH, Va. (AP) -- Republican Mark Earley
                sought to refocus the governor's race on public safety
                issues Friday in the first debate since last week's 
terrorist
                attacks, citing his crime-fighting stint as Virginia's 
attorney
                general.

                Democrat Mark Warner, a wealthy investor, stressed the
                need for a knowledgeable business leader to guide the
                state through what will likely be perilous economic times.

                The debate provided a glimpse of themes politicians will be
                sounding as campaigns across the country resume in the
                wake of last week's terror attacks. It was held in a hotel
                just 12 miles from where a hijacked jetliner slammed into
                the Pentagon.

                Earley, who served four years as attorney general and 10
                as a state senator, also seized on the soaring popularity of
                President Bush, a fellow Republican, saying the difficult
                times ahead will require "a team of consistency."

                Warner, who has never held elected office, also praised
                Bush, but mostly stuck with the main themes of his
                campaign before the attack.

                "Now more than ever we must elect a governor who will
                plan for the challenge of our future, a governor with the
                leadership to assure the safety of our people, leadership to
                build a strong economy (and) return fiscal accountability to
                our state government," Warner said.

                Earley also attacked Warner as an opponent of
                Republican-backed parole abolition in the state and welfare
                reform. Warner responded by accusing Earley of distorting
                the facts, a reference to a brochure in which at least one
                quote was altered to omit words critical to its meaning.

                Gridlock on northern Virginia's roads remained the clearest
                divide between the candidates.

                Warner stood firm in his support for a referendum allowing
                voters in the region to raise their taxes to generate up to
                $900 million for transportation projects. Earley said he
                remains solidly against it.

                ------

                On the Web

                Earley campaign: http://www.markearley.com/

                Warner campaign: http://www.markwarner2001.org/

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This 
material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2096
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-21 21:01:45
Subject:nj gov race
Message:

Arab group schedules
                Sunday conference with
                candidates

                By RALPH SIEGEL
                The Associated Press
                9/21/01 6:38 PM

                TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- The Arab American Institute is
                going forward with a scheduled conference Sunday at the
                Sheraton Hotel at Newark airport that had been set up
                initially as a voter forum to spotlight the candidates for
                governor.

                The Sept. 11 terror attacks have dramatically altered the
                focus and expected tone of the gathering, said the
                conference coordinator, Abdallah Al-Zuabi. He said officials
                in the Washington-based institute discussed canceling it
                but concluded the meeting was all the more urgent and
                topical.

                "If there was a need to have this event prior to the Sept. 
11
                tragedy that hurt all of our country and was targeted toward
                every American, we felt there was 20 times more need to
                have it now," Al-Zuabi said.

                "It was initially a campaign forum to talk about the issues
                prior to this tragedy, but because of these developments
                we have shifted it into a town meeting," Al-Zuabi said.
                "Nobody is coming to be political."

                Republican Bret Schundler and Democrat Jim McGreevey
                are scheduled to attend, according to their campaigns,
                along with an array of local candidates. Al-Zuabi said the
                group invited Attorney General John Farmer at the last
                minute to discuss the feared backlash against Arabs.
                Farmer has agreed and will bring his chief deputy for civil
                rights.

                McGreevey spokesman Richard McGrath said the
                Democrat would honor the invitation but was not yet
                resuming a full campaign schedule. "That is not our event,"
                he said. McGreevey was also scheduled to attend an
                NAACP reception in Cherry Hill on Friday night.

                Schundler, however, was scheduled to resume full-time
                campaigning Saturday with events ranging from a speech
                at the NAACP convention in Cherry Hill to a lobster bake
                on Long Beach Island. Both candidates also planned to
                attend the memorial ceremonies in Liberty State Park on
                Sunday night.

                McGrath said McGreevey believes it is too soon after the
                Sept. 11 tragedy. "Politics as usual just isn't appropriate 
at
                this point," he said. "Jim McGreevey is a human being
                before he is a political candidate and he has reacted to 
this
                in the same way all Americans have."

                Schundler's spokesman, Bill Guhl, said, "I think everybody
                has to make their own decision about what they feel is
                appropriate."

                Al-Zuabi said the Arab American Institute has thousands of
                members in New Jersey and has been scheduling political
                conferences in various states for decades. Last year they
                sponsored 130 conferences during the presidential contest.
                This is their second one in New Jersey, and Al-Zuabi
                expects 300 or more to attend, most of them Arab
                American members of the national group.

                Al-Zuabi said they selected the Sheraton, which is on the
                grounds of the airport, for its convenience to northern New
                Jersey and not because he expects anyone to fly in for it.
                He said it was booked in June.

                Of the four airliners hijacked by suspected Muslim
                extremists, one of them, United Airlines Flight 93, took off
                from Newark airport. It crashed in rural western
                Pennsylvania apparently after passengers tried to attack
                their captors.

                The Arab American Institute and its president, James
                Zogby, has been prominent at rallies and in lobbying efforts
                to push U.S. officials into discouraging anti-Arab
                discrimination. At a rally outside the Capitol Wednesday,
                Zogby said, "We're afraid as well of the punks and the
                bigots, the guys who draw swastikas on synagogues one
                day and torture a gay person the next day and go after an
                African-American the next day, that they're turning on
                us,too."

                Al-Zuabi said Arab Americans are double victims, first
                traumatized by the terror attack, like everyone else, and
                now living in fear of unfair resentments, harassment or
                worse. Fortunately, he said, things have been better than
                had been feared for the institute's staff.

                "The comforting thing about what was happening was that
                for every one or three e-mails or letters or telephone calls
                that came that were negative or bigoted or defamatory,
                there were 10 or 20 of support," he said.

                ------

                On the Net:

                http://www.bret2001.com

                http://www.mcgreevey2001.com

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This 
material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2097
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-22 00:41:11
Subject:Editorial and Update
Message:

Storm Outrage; An editorial piece.
by Edwin Pagan, ProLibertad Media Committee

In yesterday's New York Daily News [September 21, 2001] in the Big Town
Chronicles section on page 63, there is an article entitled "Storm" by Jay
Maeder, which recounts the 1975 bombing of Fraunces Tavern by the FALN.

As soon as I saw the title and read the article, I got a gut-wrenching
feeling that the Mortimer B. Zuckerman-led editorial staff, in a casual but
calculated move, was trying to revive the backlash against the alleged
perpetrators of this and other bombings. What struck me most is the timing 
of
the piece given the current political climate and emotional state of the
country.

While many journalistic and entertainment outlets, including Hollywood, are
rushing to remove any vestiges of anything that even resembles terrorism
against the United States, the New York Daily News has squarely put this
particular image back into the minds of New Yorkers 26-years after the fact.

I can only hope that the article is seen merely as a historical footnote and
not utilized as a vehicle for the venting of the current bottled anger.
Especially against those who do not have anything to do with the current 
very
tragic events now unfolding (like has been reported committed in Arab
American communities). If indeed this publication does inspire any negative
reactions against innocent Puerto Ricans (or other Latinos), let there be no
mistake on whose shoulders the blame rests. Let's hope I am wrong!

ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

PLEASE LET PEOPLE KNOW:

Several political prisoners in the U.S. Federal Prison System have in
the last few days, (since Sept. 11), been rounded up into isolation
units. (SHU: security Housing Units) These political prisoners include
Marilyn Buck, Sundiata Acoli, and Carlos Alberto Torres. Marilyn for
instance, is not receiving mail, not able to make phone calls, and
perhaps most disturbingly-- cannot communicate with her lawyers.

We've been asking the lawyers if this is legal - they think the
prisoners are not supposed to lose their right to counsel no matter what
the circumstances..

Abrogating the right to council erases a fundamental civil right. No one
in the Bureau of Prisons will say how long this punishment and
suspension of civil rights for political prisoners will go on.

We DO want people to know this is happening.. Do spread the word in the
political community and to the media about this example of stripping
away of our basic rights in the name of fighting terrorism.

Further information and an action alert will come in the next few days.
Given the current political climate, we are researching and trying to find 
out
what we can do to denounce this atrocity.  Please stay in contact.

FREE THE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
FREE ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS!!

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2098
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-22 01:45:14
Subject:Re: [nbpc] No investigation, no right to speak
Message:

yawn


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] No investigation, no right to speak
>Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 20:43:26
>
>Kris- I reread your response and it's very confusing to me...why would you
>so forcefully admonish exploring all angles, searching all possibilities?
>Where lies the truth?  Fox5 owned by Murdock? Or Ch9 News, owned by 
>Murdock?
>or CH11 running CNN, originial War on Iraq propaganda machine? All the
>liberal outlets, including PBS & NPR are running fast under the Far Right's
>Wing & Marching to the War Drum. Charlie Rose interviewed a US Military
>Officer last night, who was talking about CIA's "So-Called Human"
>concerns.(!)  Another guest labeled the attack "An Act of Genocide" against
>the US (I almost fell out of my chair) These are the madmen running the 
>show
>from now on,(eg, the far-right) & rapidly leading the sheep to slaughter
>("In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hope 
> >
>  > to use force to control their domains" Noam Chomsky)
>
>So every bit of information is worth reviewing.  (BTW: Who shot Lincoln,
>both Kennedy's, MLK, & MalcolmX? Lone gunmen? All other information & 
>angles
>"gross conspiracy theories"? ) So I'm not interested in the least about
>meeting your "intelligence" standard. I send out information that I think 
>is
>worth looking at, & I haven't concluded anything other than the
>Imperialist's Attack Theory is suspect at best & concure with Chomsky that
>it's very convenient for Bush&Co.
>
>It is tiring to reading your posts determining who is "no better than the
>enemy".  This isn't an intellectual excercise.  We have to rise out of this
>mode of pointing fingers at each other, but struggle over the best way to
>move foward, & most importantly Unite the Left!!  We'll soon see how that 
>is
>going to be more difficult than ever, under the new circumstances, but
>there's no choice.
>
>No More Sectarianism! (PB's Petty Bickering)
>Left-Bloc Unity & Principled Struggle!
>
>-Matthew
>
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>CC: "njfo list" <njfo@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
>Day o f the Attack
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:04:23 -0400
>
>Matt,
>
>You're spreading gross conspiracy theories and considerably undermining 
>your
>intelligence in the eye of this list -- or else trying to insult its
>intelligence by assuming that this sort of nonsense would be accepted, much
>less 'spread.'
>
>Al-Manar Television, the disseminator of this so-called 'news', is "a
>Lebanese TV station, aims to preserve the Islamic values and to enhance the
>civilized role of the Arab and Islamic Community. Political, cultural and
>social affairs are of special importance o the station's programs. Most
>important is
>the struggle against Zionism/racism."  In the past several days, they have
>produced other reporting gems -- "Did Israel Attack the Pentagon and World
>Trade Center?" -- "U.S. Military Could Be Behind The Sept. 11 Terrorist
>Attacks" -- and other, possibly a bit less surreal, but nonetheless very
>evidently biased and juicy bits which would easily shame The Enquirer and
>The Star.
>
>http://paknews.com/flash.php?id=27&date1=2001-09-18
>
>Your posts could be viewed from my perspective only as provocation, whether
>it is due to your own naivete or some other unfortunate force, you do more
>to harm the cause of those who wish to see violence abate than appear as 
>any
>defender thereof.  Maybe your angst runs so far as to make you no better
>than those you claim to oppose.
>
>Chris
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:25 AM
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com; poprogress@yahoogroups.com;
>njfo@yahoogroups.com; onepeoplescoalition@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
>Day o f the Attack
>
>
>
>READ THIS AND SPREAD THE WORD
>
>
>
>  >From: "Nurfette !" Subject: Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli
>  >Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001
>  >14:59:56 +0000
>  >
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
>
>           Previous   Next | Close
>
>From :
>"Nurfette !" <nurfette@...>
>
>Subject :
>Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day
>o f the Attack
>
>Date :
>Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:59:56 +0000
>
>
>  >From: "Khalid S. Khan" To: islamirc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ISLAMirc]
>  >BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the 
>Attack
>  >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:02:36 +0000
>  >
>  >4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack
>  >
>  >Manar TV - Sept 17, 2001 < http://www.manartv.com/> With the 
>announcement
>  >of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New York, the international
>  >media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to take advantage of the
>  >incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work at the two towers.
>  >Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those Israelis and
>  >later it became clear that they remarkably did not show up in their jobs
>  >the day the incident took place. No one talked about any Israeli being
>  >killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to 
>the
>  >Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that 
>day
>  >based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the Shabak,
>the
>  >fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on American officials who 
>wanted
>  >to know how the Israeli government learned about the incident before it
>  >occurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing the U.S
>  >authorities of the information it had. Suspicions had increased further
>  >after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that the Shabak 
>prevented
>  >Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York and particularly
>to
>  >the citys eastern coast to participate in a festival organized by the
>  >Zionist organizations in support of the "Israel". Aharon Bernie, the
>  >commentator at the newspaper, brought up the issue and came up with a
>  >negative conclusion, saying no answer. He then asked about the clue 
>behind
>  >the Shabaks position in preventing Sharons participation, and again
>without
>  >giving an answer. Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for having
>  >his speech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of the
>  >organization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change its position,
>but
>  >his attempts were in vein. The next day after Sharons secretary 
>officially
>  >announced that Sharon would not participate the incident took place. For
>  >its part, the Israeli Haaretz newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested
>five
>  >Israelis four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming 
>the
>  >smoking skyline from the roof of their companys building. The FBI had
>  >arrested the five for puzzling behavior. They are said to have been 
>caught
>  >videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and
>  >mockery. =======
>  >
>  >
>  >VISIT: < HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET > WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE 
>ANYWHERE
>  >IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!!!!
>  >
>  >DEFINING APARTHEID
>  >
>  >Article 2 of the "International Convention of the Suppression and
>  >Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid" of 1973 clearly defined the term
>  >"crime of apartheid." This includes similar policies and practices of
>  >segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa and which 
>also
>  >apply to inhuman acts committed for the purpose of the establishment and
>  >maintaining of domination by one racial group over another. This 
>includes
>  >the deliberated imposition of living conditions calculated to cause
>  >physical destruction and any legislative or other measures preventing a
>  >racial group from full development of their political, social, economic
>and
>  >cultural life. This is an accurate description of what the zionists are
>  >doing to the Palestinian people with the full support of the USA.
>  >
>  >
>  >_________________________________________________________________ Get 
>your
>  >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2099
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-22 01:46:40
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Smash Sectarianism!
Message:

forget the armchairs, win the people!

joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Smash Sectarianism!
>Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:49:47
>
>I find it astounding, and worse frightening, that despite what's happened
>since 9-11, & despite that even Chomsky has characterized this as :"the
>crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right" that the Petty Bourg. left has
>resumed the same Petty Bickering as before & can't find to find grounds to
>Unite. Look- either we get it together, or, as Baraka aptly put it, "We're
>all out of here."  This is not to say that we don't Struggle over lines, 
>but
>if we practise being principled about it, we might get the hang of it.
>
>-Unite, Critisism, Unity (Transformation)
>Matt
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
>Day o f the Attack
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:35:47 -0400
>
>If one is as bent on one's pre-packaged world view, and as indifferent to
>the pursuit of truth as one cliff smith -- no doubt.  But that is an
>indictment against you to begin with, and certainly no news to me.
>
>As far as I'm concerned, you're no less an agent of international finance
>capital or the military-industrial complex than 'they' are.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: cliff smith [mailto:cliffsmith69@...]
>Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 10:31 PM
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent
>the Day o f the Attack
>
>
>true or not,
>is easier to swallow, conspiracy-wise,
>than the farce that
>the wtc was demolished
>w/ boxcutters
>
>
>  >From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>  >CC: "njfo list" <njfo@yahoogroups.com>
>  >Subject: RE: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent
>the
>  >Day o f the Attack
>  >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:04:23 -0400
>  >
>  >Matt,
>  >
>  >You're spreading gross conspiracy theories and considerably undermining
>  >your
>  >intelligence in the eye of this list -- or else trying to insult its
>  >intelligence by assuming that this sort of nonsense would be accepted,
>much
>  >less 'spread.'
>  >
>  >Al-Manar Television, the disseminator of this so-called 'news', is "a
>  >Lebanese TV station, aims to preserve the Islamic values and to enhance
>the
>  >civilized role of the Arab and Islamic Community. Political, cultural 
>and
>  >social affairs are of special importance o the station's programs. Most
>  >important is
>  >the struggle against Zionism/racism."  In the past several days, they 
>have
>  >produced other reporting gems -- "Did Israel Attack the Pentagon and 
>World
>  >Trade Center?" -- "U.S. Military Could Be Behind The Sept. 11 Terrorist
>  >Attacks" -- and other, possibly a bit less surreal, but nonetheless very
>  >evidently biased and juicy bits which would easily shame The Enquirer 
>and
>  >The Star.
>  >
>  >http://paknews.com/flash.php?id=27&date1=2001-09-18
>  >
>  >Your posts could be viewed from my perspective only as provocation,
>whether
>  >it is due to your own naivete or some other unfortunate force, you do 
>more
>  >to harm the cause of those who wish to see violence abate than appear as
>  >any
>  >defender thereof.  Maybe your angst runs so far as to make you no better
>  >than those you claim to oppose.
>  >
>  >Chris
>  >
>  >-----Original Message-----
>  >From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
>  >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:25 AM
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com; poprogress@yahoogroups.com;
>  >njfo@yahoogroups.com; onepeoplescoalition@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: [nbpc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
>  >Day o f the Attack
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >READ THIS AND SPREAD THE WORD
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > >From: "Nurfette !" Subject: Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 
>Israeli
>  > >Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the Attack Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001
>  > >14:59:56 +0000
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
>  >----
>  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
>  >
>  >          Previous   Next | Close
>  >
>  >From :
>  >"Nurfette !" <nurfette@...>
>  >
>  >Subject :
>  >Fwd: [ISLAMirc] BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the
>Day
>  >o f the Attack
>  >
>  >Date :
>  >Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:59:56 +0000
>  >
>  >
>  > >From: "Khalid S. Khan" To: islamirc@yahoogroups.com Subject: 
>[ISLAMirc]
>  > >BREAKING NEWS: 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day o f the
>  >Attack
>  > >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:02:36 +0000
>  > >
>  > >4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack
>  > >
>  > >Manar TV - Sept 17, 2001 < http://www.manartv.com/> With the
>announcement
>  > >of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New York, the 
>international
>  > >media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to take advantage of the
>  > >incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work at the two 
>towers.
>  > >Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those Israelis and
>  > >later it became clear that they remarkably did not show up in their 
>jobs
>  > >the day the incident took place. No one talked about any Israeli being
>  > >killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to
>the
>  > >Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that
>day
>  > >based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the 
>Shabak,
>  >the
>  > >fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on American officials who
>wanted
>  > >to know how the Israeli government learned about the incident before 
>it
>  > >occurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing the U.S
>  > >authorities of the information it had. Suspicions had increased 
>further
>  > >after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that the Shabak
>prevented
>  > >Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York and 
>particularly
>  >to
>  > >the citys eastern coast to participate in a festival organized by the
>  > >Zionist organizations in support of the "Israel". Aharon Bernie, the
>  > >commentator at the newspaper, brought up the issue and came up with a
>  > >negative conclusion, saying no answer. He then asked about the clue
>  >behind
>  > >the Shabaks position in preventing Sharons participation, and again
>  >without
>  > >giving an answer. Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for 
>having
>  > >his speech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of the
>  > >organization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change its 
>position,
>  >but
>  > >his attempts were in vein. The next day after Sharons secretary
>  >officially
>  > >announced that Sharon would not participate the incident took place. 
>For
>  > >its part, the Israeli Haaretz newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested
>  >five
>  > >Israelis four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming
>the
>  > >smoking skyline from the roof of their companys building. The FBI had
>  > >arrested the five for puzzling behavior. They are said to have been
>  >caught
>  > >videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and
>  > >mockery. =======
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >VISIT: < HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET > WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE
>ANYWHERE
>  > >IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!!!!
>  > >
>  > >DEFINING APARTHEID
>  > >
>  > >Article 2 of the "International Convention of the Suppression and
>  > >Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid" of 1973 clearly defined the term
>  > >"crime of apartheid." This includes similar policies and practices of
>  > >segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa and which
>  >also
>  > >apply to inhuman acts committed for the purpose of the establishment 
>and
>  > >maintaining of domination by one racial group over another. This
>includes
>  > >the deliberated imposition of living conditions calculated to cause
>  > >physical destruction and any legislative or other measures preventing 
>a
>  > >racial group from full development of their political, social, 
>economic
>  >and
>  > >cultural life. This is an accurate description of what the zionists 
>are
>  > >doing to the Palestinian people with the full support of the USA.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >_________________________________________________________________ Get
>  >your
>  > >FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  >
>  >
>  >_________________________________________________________________
>  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  >
>  >
>  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  >
>  >
>  >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>  >
>  >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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>  >
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>  >
>  >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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>
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>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2100
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-22 16:19:09
Subject:bush got no evidence
Message:













                     Investigators give few clues why they
                     believe it's bin Laden; intelligence
                     agencies prepare evidence report

                     By JOHN J. LUMPKIN
                     The Associated Press
                     9/22/01 3:36 AM

                     WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. intelligence agencies are 
collaborating on a
                     report to detail evidence linking Osama bin Laden to 
last week's terror
                     attacks, a U.S. official said. So far, the Bush 
administration has offered
                     little public information that points to his 
involvement.

                     It is unclear whether the report will be made public. 
White House officials
                     said Friday they eventually will outline to the 
American people the case
                     against bin Laden to justify military or other U.S. 
action.

                     To date, an intercepted telephone call, one hijacker's 
apparent name and
                     bin Laden's own declarations and history constitute the 
only public
                     evidence linking the exiled Saudi multimillionaire to 
the attacks.

                     U.S. officials say more evidence exists, but they won't 
say what it is
                     because of the continuing FBI investigation. One 
official, speaking on
                     condition of anonymity, said Friday such material will 
be included in the
                     intelligence report in preparation.

                     Intelligence officials fear that going public with 
evidence might
                     compromise their sources of information. Members of 
Congress privy to
                     secret briefings seem equally convinced of bin Laden's 
involvement.

                     Officials also say they are investigating all 
possibilities, including that
                     other terrorist organizations or countries had a hand 
in the attacks.

                     Bin Laden is hiding in Afghanistan. The Taliban 
militia, the ruling power in
                     the southwest Asian country, has refused to turn him 
over to the United
                     States and demanded the U.S. government make its case.

                     The most direct evidence of bin Laden's association was 
provided by
                     Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, last week.

                     Shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade 
Center and the
                     Pentagon, U.S. intelligence intercepted a phone call 
between two known
                     associates of bin Laden, in which they said they had 
struck two targets in
                     the United States, Hatch said.

                     Authorities also have connected the name of one of the 
19 suspected
                     hijackers to bin Laden.

                     In August, Khalid al-Midhar was placed on a watch list 
after U.S.
                     intelligence agencies received information that a man 
with that name had
                     been seen meeting with associates of bin Laden in 
Malaysia, officials
                     have said.

                     It's not known if the same man perished on the American 
Airlines jet that
                     crashed into the Pentagon. The hijacker known as 
al-Midhar may have
                     been using a false name, officials have said.

                     The rest of the revealed evidence that seemingly ties 
bin Laden to the
                     attack is circumstantial at best.

                     Bin Laden himself reportedly rejoiced after the 
successful attacks but
                     denied involvement.

                     He has the wealth and organization to pull it off, U.S. 
officials said. His
                     groups are known for meticulous planning of attacks.

                     He's also believed to have conducted simultaneous 
attacks at multiple
                     locations before -- when the U.S. embassies in Kenya 
and Tanzania were
                     bombed in 1998. He has been linked to the first Trade 
Center bombing in
                     1993 and last year's attack on the USS Cole.

                     Bin Laden has declared war on the United States, 
threatened to conduct
                     major attacks on U.S. soil and said all Americans are 
targets. His prime
                     grievance appears to be that U.S. troops are in his 
native Saudi Arabia,
                     which he consider desecration of sacred soil.

                     Since the attacks, the U.S. government has been using 
increasingly
                     strong language to describe bin Laden.

                     Within hours, U.S. officials identified him as a 
suspect in organizing the
                     attacks. Two days later, Secretary of State Colin 
Powell called him the
                     "prime suspect."

                     Monday, President Bush said bin Laden was "Wanted, dead 
or alive."

                     Steven Aftergood, head of the Project on Government 
Secrecy for the
                     Washington-based Federation of American Scientists, 
asked the
                     government to provide at least a minimal explanation 
for its statements.

                     "We have yet to hear a clear statement of bin Laden's 
responsibility for
                     the Sept. 11 attacks," Aftergood said. "What we have 
heard is innuendo
                     and vague talk of links of an unspecified nature. That 
is a very fragile
                     foundation for an extended military campaign."

                      Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may not be
                                 published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2101
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-22 16:23:30
Subject:greeks burn us, israeli flags at soccer game
Message:







                     Greek soccer fans jeered, tried to burn
                     U.S. flag during minute's silence for
                     terror attack victims

                     The Associated Press
                     9/22/01 2:23 PM

                     EDINBURGH, Scotland (AP) -- Fans of a Greek soccer club 
tried to burn
                     the American flag and jeered during a pre-game tribute 
in Athens in
                     honor of the victims of last week's terrorist attacks, 
witnesses said.

                     A minute's silence was held before all 77 European 
soccer games played
                     this week. But some AEK Athens fans jeered Thursday, 
soccer coach
                     Alex McLeish of the Scottish club Hibernian said.

                     "When I first heard all the shouting and jeering, I 
thought it was their way
                     of doing the minute's silence. Then I was told by 
someone who said:
                     `Look, they're burning the American flag,"' he said 
Saturday upon
                     returning to Scotland.

                     "I could not believe such anti-American feeling in a 
European country."

                     Several hundred fans booed and jeered during the 
minute's silence
                     before the UEFA Cup game, some chanting "Americans, 
killers,"
                     according to Greek reports.

                     One group set fire to an Israeli flag, and others tried 
to burn an American
                     flag but couldn't get it to light.

                     Greek officials could not be reached for comment.

                     "What went on in Athens disgusted me," McLeish said. 
"With what
                     happened last week, innocent people of all 
nationalities in America,
                     anyone would show respect."

                     "What badly disappointed me was that there was no 
effort made by
                     anyone, the police included, to do anything about it.

                     "It is so disappointing that people do not have respect 
for human life -- no
                     matter what creed, color or nationality," McLeish said.

                      Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may not be
                                 published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2102
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-22 16:28:24
Subject:castro: bush plans world military dictatorship...
Message:








                     Fidel Castro says Cuba opposes
                     terrorism, war

                     By ANITA SNOW
                     The Associated Press
                     9/22/01 2:06 PM

                     HAVANA (AP) -- Warning that large-scale U.S. military 
attacks against
                     Afghanistan's ruling Taliban could have catastrophic 
consequences,
                     Cuban leader Fidel Castro on Saturday declared his 
opposition to the
                     gathering war as much as the terrorist acts that 
precipitated it.

                     Reiterating Cuba's "willingness to cooperate with every 
country in total
                     eradication of terrorism," Castro repeated his 
solidarity with the American
                     people after the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States.

                     "Cuba is opposed to terrorism and is opposed to war," 
the 75-year-old
                     Castro told tens of thousands of cheering people at a 
government rally
                     Saturday outside Havana.

                     He called the attacks an "atrocious and insane 
terrorist act," but insisted
                     that "the tragedy should not be used to recklessly 
start a war that could
                     unleash an endless carnage of innocent people."

                     Castro clearly took exception to parts of President 
Bush's Thursday night
                     speech roughly outlining his retaliation plan to the 
American people and
                     the world.

                     Bush's plan is for "a world military dictatorship under 
the exclusive rule of
                     force, irrespective of any international laws or 
institutions," Castro said.

                     "There would be only one boss, only one judge, and only 
one law," he
                     said.

                     A vocal advocate of individual nations' sovereignty, 
Castro found
                     troubling Bush's declaration: "Either you are with us, 
or you are with the
                     terrorists."

                     "No nation of the world has been left out of the 
dilemma, not even the big
                     and powerful states; none has escaped the threat of war 
or attacks," said
                     Castro. "We have all been ordered to ally either with 
the United States
                     government or with terrorism," he added.

                     As for Bush's declaration that any weapon could be 
used, Castro said:
                     "No procedure has been excluded, regardless of its 
ethics, nor any threat
                     no matter how fatal -- whether it be nuclear, chemical, 
biological or any
                     other."

                     The Cuban leader also expressed concerns about how 
extensive such a
                     war would be and how long it would last.

                     Castro said the American president made "an amazing 
assertion"
                     Thursday night when he said that "the course of this 
conflict is not known;
                     yet its outcome is certain. And we know that God is not 
neutral."

                     "When I think about the real or imagined parties 
involved in that bizarre
                     holy war that is about to begin, I find it difficult to 
make a distinction about
                     where the fanaticism is stronger."

                     Washington and Havana have not have diplomatic 
relations for four
                     decades, but Castro insisted "Cuba will never be used 
for terrorist actions
                     against the American people and we will do everything 
within our reach to
                     prevent such actions against that people."

                     Both Washington and Havana confirmed this week that 
U.S. officials
                     approached Cuba about providing information about 
terrorism following
                     the attacks.

                      Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may not be
                                 published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2103
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-22 22:52:59
Subject:Vieques Bombing-Monday
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign urges all people to forward this far and 
wide.

ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244

Vieques Bombing Exercises to Begin

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) -
The U.S. Navy has notified the Puerto Rican government
that it plans to resume bombing exercises on the island of Vieques
as early as Monday, an official said.

Vieques Commissioner Juan Fernandez said on� Tuesday
that the Navy's top official in Puerto Rico, Rear Adm.
Kevin Green, sent him a letter asking him to be
present on Vieques for the first day of maneuvers
Monday.

Fernandez monitors the bombing for the Puerto Rican
government from an observation post overlooking the
firing range.

The Navy had previously notified the Puerto Rican
government of its plans. But there had been
uncertainty about whether the exercises would go
forward as planned after the attacks on the World
Trade Center and the Pentagon (news - web sites) last
week.

The exercises could last as long as 23 days,
Fernandez said.

Opposition to Navy training on the Puerto Rican
island surged after a civilian security guard was
killed on the Vieques range by off-target bombs in
1999. Protesters argue that the bombing causes
environmental and health problems on the island of
9,100 people - charges the Navy denies. The Navy has
used inert bombs since the accident.

Well-known figures previously arrested for
trespassing in Vieques protests include civil rights
leader the Rev. Al Sharpton, actor Edward James
Olmos and environmental lawyer Robert F. Kennedy Jr.






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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2104
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-23 01:26:58
Subject:WFMU 91.1 to broadcast Democracy Now! live
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: siddharta5@...
To: friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] WFMU 91.1 to broadcast Democracy Now! live
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 02:11:46 -0000

New Jersey-based WFMU 91.1 FM will begin broadcasting Democracy Now!
live on October 1st.

WFMU covers parts of NY City and large swaths of New Jersey, as well
portions of the Hudson Valley, Catskills and eastern Pennsylvania.

It would appear that more than 50% of the WBAI listening audience can
tune in to WFMU.

When it becomes appropriate to resume our CF sidewalk leafletting in
NY City, I will propose that we advertise WFMU's broadcasting of DN!
on our flyer.

Mr. Daughtry, welcome to the competition of the marketplace.

Paul Surovell
----




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2105
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-23 01:38:17
Subject:MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Message:

It's extrordinary that just two weeks ago, U&S was still debating with 
Greens on whether Bush & Co. were real fascists...I wish we were wrong.
Oppose War! & Impeach Bush! -MS


 > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/19/arts/music/19POPL.html
 >
 > September 19, 2001
 >
 > THE POP LIFE
 >
 > After the Horror, Radio Stations Pull Some Songs
 >
 > By NEIL STRAUSS
 >
 > Clear Channel Communications, the Texas-based company that owns about
 > 1,170 radio stations nationwide, has circulated a list of 150 songs
 > and asked its stations to avoid playing them because of the attacks
 > on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
 >
 > Some listed songs would be insensitive to play right now, such as the
 > Gap Band's "You Dropped a Bomb on Me" and Soundgarden's "Blow Up the
 > Outside World," but other choices, critics and musicians say, are
 > less explicable because they have little literal connection to the
 > tragedies.
 >
 > These include "Ticket to Ride" by the Beatles, "On Broadway" by the
 > Drifters and "Bennie and the Jets" by Elton John. Even odder, some
 > songs on the list are patriotic, like Neil Diamond's "America."
 > Others speak of universal optimism, like Louis Armstrong's "What a
 > Wonderful World," and others are emotional but hopeful songs that
 > could help people grieve, like "Imagine" by John Lennon, "Bridge Over
 > Troubled Water" by Simon and Garfunkel, "Peace Train" by Cat Stevens
 > and "A World Without Love" by Peter and Gordon.
 >
 > The move by Clear Channel, whose collective broadcasts reach more
 > than 110 million listeners in the nation weekly, was voluntary. Many
 > stations, including some in the New York area, said they were
 > disregarding the list, which was distributed internally.
 >
 > Another Peter and Gordon song, "I Go to Pieces," made the list. "I
 > suppose a song about someone going to pieces could be upsetting if
 > someone took it literally," said Peter Asher of Peter and Gordon
 > after learning that the group's two songs were on the list. "But 'I
 > can't live in a world without love' is a sentiment that's as true in
 > crisis as it is in normal times. It's a totally pro-love sentiment
 > and could only be helpful right now."
 >
 > A Clear Channel spokeswoman emphasized that the list was not a
 > mandate or order to radio programmers. In a statement, the company
 > said the list came not from the corporate offices but from "a
 > grass-roots effort that was apparently circulated among program
 > directors."
 >
 > Others in the Clear Channel network, speaking on condition of
 > anonymity, told a more complicated story. They said that a smaller
 > list of questionable songs was originally generated by the corporate
 > office, but an overzealous regional executive began contributing
 > suggestions and circulating the list via e-mail, where it continued
 > to grow.
 >
 > Either way, compliance with the list varied from station to station.
 > Angela Perelli, the vice president for operations at KYSR (98.7 FM)
 > in Los Angeles, said the station was not playing any of the listed
 > songs and had previously pulled a couple of the cited songs, "Jumper"
 > by Third Eye Blind and "Fly" by Sugar Ray, on its own accord. On the
 > other hand, Bob Buchmann, the program director and an on-air
 > personality at WAXQ-FM (104.3) in Manhattan, said that some songs on
 > the list ("American Pie" by Don McLean, "Imagine" and others)
 > happened to be among the most-played songs on his station. In the
 > meantime, the station decided not to broadcast some songs even though
 > they did not make the list, such as "When You're Falling," a
 > collaboration between Peter Gabriel and Afro-Celt Sound System that
 > had fictional lyrics too eerily similar to the truth.
 >
 > In 1942 the United States government issued a list of suggested
 > wartime practices for radio broadcasters. In the interest of national
 > safety, it advised radio programmers to ban weather forecasts, which
 > could help the enemy plan a bombing attack, and to avoid
 > man-on-the-street interviews and listener music requests in case the
 > interviewee or caller was a spy conveying a coded message to the
 > enemy in words or song.
 >
 > The new list is clearly different. Instead of promoting national
 > safety, its intended aim is to ensure national mental health, though
 > First Amendment supporters may point to it as the first shadowy
 > blacklist in what President Bush says will be a war against
 > terrorism. Radio programmers and producers outside of Clear Channel
 > said that they found the list bewildering. "There are obviously songs
 > on there that people could take the wrong way," said Michael Stark, a
 > freelance producer who works on "The Tom Joyner Morning Show" on the
 > ABC Radio Network. "But there are just as many that could be used to
 > heal and bring context to the tragedy. It seems from the list that
 > they don't want anything that comes close to making waves."
 >
 > In an odd anomaly on the list, a specific song or songs are mentioned
 > for each artist except for one: the politically minded rap-rock group
 > Rage Against the Machine. For this band, the list simply considers
 > "all Rage Against the Machine songs" questionable.
 >
 > Tom Morello, the guitarist in Rage Against the Machine, said via
 > e-mail that the band's music "is diametrically opposed to the kind of
 > horrible violence committed against innocent people" that occurred in
 > the Sept. 11 attacks, "which we condemn in the strongest possible
 > terms."
 >
 > "If our songs are 'questionable' in any way," he added, "it is that
 > they encourage people to question the kind of ignorance that breeds
 > intolerance � intolerance which can lead to censorship and the
 > extinguishing of our civil liberties, or at its extremes can lead to
 > the kind of violence we witnessed" last week.
 >
 > Nina Crowley, the executive director of the Massachusetts Music
 > Industry Coalition, a free-speech organization, worried that this was
 > just the beginning of suppression of artistic expression and that
 > politicians and corporations that have been trying to restrict access
 > to popular music may expand and perpetuate this list. "President Bush
 > said to be prepared for a long engagement," she said, "so this could
 > potentially continue and grow, and these songs could be removed from
 > the public ear for a long time. This list has eliminated songs about
 > flying and falling, but when something else happens, do we remove all
 > the songs about trains and whatever else?"
 >
 > ------- End of forwarded message -------
 >
 > 	http://savewbai.tao.ca
 >
 >
 > 	To unsubscribe from this list
 > 	email lists@... with: unsubscribe savewbai
 > 	or visit http://lists.tao.ca


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2108
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-23 11:53:28
Subject:Re: [njfo] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Message:

the greens are planning a conference and march today in New Brunswick.

they plan to march from the labor education building to the fountain, 
assholes.

dump coleman! Defeat Schundler!
vote mcgreevy

joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, njfo@yahoogroups.com, 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, onepeoplescoalition@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [njfo] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
>Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 05:38:17
>
>It's extrordinary that just two weeks ago, U&S was still debating with
>Greens on whether Bush & Co. were real fascists...I wish we were wrong.
>Oppose War! & Impeach Bush! -MS
>
>
>  > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/19/arts/music/19POPL.html
>  >
>  > September 19, 2001
>  >
>  > THE POP LIFE
>  >
>  > After the Horror, Radio Stations Pull Some Songs
>  >
>  > By NEIL STRAUSS
>  >
>  > Clear Channel Communications, the Texas-based company that owns about
>  > 1,170 radio stations nationwide, has circulated a list of 150 songs
>  > and asked its stations to avoid playing them because of the attacks
>  > on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
>  >
>  > Some listed songs would be insensitive to play right now, such as the
>  > Gap Band's "You Dropped a Bomb on Me" and Soundgarden's "Blow Up the
>  > Outside World," but other choices, critics and musicians say, are
>  > less explicable because they have little literal connection to the
>  > tragedies.
>  >
>  > These include "Ticket to Ride" by the Beatles, "On Broadway" by the
>  > Drifters and "Bennie and the Jets" by Elton John. Even odder, some
>  > songs on the list are patriotic, like Neil Diamond's "America."
>  > Others speak of universal optimism, like Louis Armstrong's "What a
>  > Wonderful World," and others are emotional but hopeful songs that
>  > could help people grieve, like "Imagine" by John Lennon, "Bridge Over
>  > Troubled Water" by Simon and Garfunkel, "Peace Train" by Cat Stevens
>  > and "A World Without Love" by Peter and Gordon.
>  >
>  > The move by Clear Channel, whose collective broadcasts reach more
>  > than 110 million listeners in the nation weekly, was voluntary. Many
>  > stations, including some in the New York area, said they were
>  > disregarding the list, which was distributed internally.
>  >
>  > Another Peter and Gordon song, "I Go to Pieces," made the list. "I
>  > suppose a song about someone going to pieces could be upsetting if
>  > someone took it literally," said Peter Asher of Peter and Gordon
>  > after learning that the group's two songs were on the list. "But 'I
>  > can't live in a world without love' is a sentiment that's as true in
>  > crisis as it is in normal times. It's a totally pro-love sentiment
>  > and could only be helpful right now."
>  >
>  > A Clear Channel spokeswoman emphasized that the list was not a
>  > mandate or order to radio programmers. In a statement, the company
>  > said the list came not from the corporate offices but from "a
>  > grass-roots effort that was apparently circulated among program
>  > directors."
>  >
>  > Others in the Clear Channel network, speaking on condition of
>  > anonymity, told a more complicated story. They said that a smaller
>  > list of questionable songs was originally generated by the corporate
>  > office, but an overzealous regional executive began contributing
>  > suggestions and circulating the list via e-mail, where it continued
>  > to grow.
>  >
>  > Either way, compliance with the list varied from station to station.
>  > Angela Perelli, the vice president for operations at KYSR (98.7 FM)
>  > in Los Angeles, said the station was not playing any of the listed
>  > songs and had previously pulled a couple of the cited songs, "Jumper"
>  > by Third Eye Blind and "Fly" by Sugar Ray, on its own accord. On the
>  > other hand, Bob Buchmann, the program director and an on-air
>  > personality at WAXQ-FM (104.3) in Manhattan, said that some songs on
>  > the list ("American Pie" by Don McLean, "Imagine" and others)
>  > happened to be among the most-played songs on his station. In the
>  > meantime, the station decided not to broadcast some songs even though
>  > they did not make the list, such as "When You're Falling," a
>  > collaboration between Peter Gabriel and Afro-Celt Sound System that
>  > had fictional lyrics too eerily similar to the truth.
>  >
>  > In 1942 the United States government issued a list of suggested
>  > wartime practices for radio broadcasters. In the interest of national
>  > safety, it advised radio programmers to ban weather forecasts, which
>  > could help the enemy plan a bombing attack, and to avoid
>  > man-on-the-street interviews and listener music requests in case the
>  > interviewee or caller was a spy conveying a coded message to the
>  > enemy in words or song.
>  >
>  > The new list is clearly different. Instead of promoting national
>  > safety, its intended aim is to ensure national mental health, though
>  > First Amendment supporters may point to it as the first shadowy
>  > blacklist in what President Bush says will be a war against
>  > terrorism. Radio programmers and producers outside of Clear Channel
>  > said that they found the list bewildering. "There are obviously songs
>  > on there that people could take the wrong way," said Michael Stark, a
>  > freelance producer who works on "The Tom Joyner Morning Show" on the
>  > ABC Radio Network. "But there are just as many that could be used to
>  > heal and bring context to the tragedy. It seems from the list that
>  > they don't want anything that comes close to making waves."
>  >
>  > In an odd anomaly on the list, a specific song or songs are mentioned
>  > for each artist except for one: the politically minded rap-rock group
>  > Rage Against the Machine. For this band, the list simply considers
>  > "all Rage Against the Machine songs" questionable.
>  >
>  > Tom Morello, the guitarist in Rage Against the Machine, said via
>  > e-mail that the band's music "is diametrically opposed to the kind of
>  > horrible violence committed against innocent people" that occurred in
>  > the Sept. 11 attacks, "which we condemn in the strongest possible
>  > terms."
>  >
>  > "If our songs are 'questionable' in any way," he added, "it is that
>  > they encourage people to question the kind of ignorance that breeds
>  > intolerance � intolerance which can lead to censorship and the
>  > extinguishing of our civil liberties, or at its extremes can lead to
>  > the kind of violence we witnessed" last week.
>  >
>  > Nina Crowley, the executive director of the Massachusetts Music
>  > Industry Coalition, a free-speech organization, worried that this was
>  > just the beginning of suppression of artistic expression and that
>  > politicians and corporations that have been trying to restrict access
>  > to popular music may expand and perpetuate this list. "President Bush
>  > said to be prepared for a long engagement," she said, "so this could
>  > potentially continue and grow, and these songs could be removed from
>  > the public ear for a long time. This list has eliminated songs about
>  > flying and falling, but when something else happens, do we remove all
>  > the songs about trains and whatever else?"
>  >
>  > ------- End of forwarded message -------
>  >
>  > 	http://savewbai.tao.ca
>  >
>  >
>  > 	To unsubscribe from this list
>  > 	email lists@... with: unsubscribe savewbai
>  > 	or visit http://lists.tao.ca
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
>Donate cash, emergency relief information
>http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@...
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: njfo-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2109
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-23 13:33:14
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] British Plan for Afghanistan
Message:



Revealed: British plan for Afghan onslaught

• Bin Laden 'hiding in terror camp'
• Allied warships steam to Gulf
• Spy plane downed

Kamal Ahmed in London, Peter Beaumont in Washington and Ed Vulliamy in New
York
Sunday September 23, 2001
<A HREF="http://www.observer.co.uk/">The Observer</A>

BRITISH troops will lead an international coalition
alongside America to wage war on Afghanistan
in the next 10 days as security and intelligence
sources indicated last night that the net was
tightening on Osama bin Laden, the prime suspect
  behind the terrorist attacks on America.

With an attack now imminent and American
warplanes arriving in neighbouring Uzbekistan
ahead of the first wave of strikes, security sources
in Britain and America said that they were now
concentrating their investigation into bin Laden
and the al-Qaeda terrorist organisation in the north
and west of Afghanistan.

Five terrorist camps around Jalalabad will be the
focus of the military campaign, which Ministry of
Defence officials last night revealed was now in
the 'final stages' of planning. Sources said that
any action by ground troops would be preceded
by bombing in the terrorist camps' region.

There were unconfirmed reports last night that
Special Air Service (SAS) troops were already
in northern Afghanistan, working with the
anti-Taliban alliance that controls the area.
With America now on a war footing and Britain
emerging as its most potent war partner, 13 British
warships travelled through the Suez canal yesterday
and steamed for the Gulf . In the largest military
mobilisation since the Gulf War 10 years ago,
the White House also revealed that a third aircraft
carrier, B-52 bombers and warships capable of
launching ground-attack Tomahawk cruise missiles
  had moved into the area to prepare for attack.

Yesterday Bush chaired a National Security Council
meeting to complete plans for military action, which
could come as early as Thursday. Later today the
President will join advisers from the special operations
  arm of the US Marines at the presidential retreat at
Camp David. It is believed that the coalition force will
be led by America with military support and troops
from specialist units in Britain and France.

Russia will provide logistical support. Tony Blair is on
the verge of signing the order agreeing to the use
of British troops. Britain and America now believe
that bin Laden is still in Afghanistan, contrary to
reports that he had fled to China or Chechnya.
'Bin Laden is in Afghanistan,' the Prime Minister's
official spokesman said. 'We know he is there, put
it that way.'

His words reflected those of Colin Powell,
the US secretary of state and key military planner
in the White House, who said that there was a
'presumption' that the man who has become a hate
figure for many in the West was still in the country.
Although British officials said that the ultimatum to
the Taliban authorities that bin Laden must be expelled
from Afghanistan was 'open ended', it was made
clear that with winter approaching military action needed
to be rapid.

It is believed that bin Laden is hiding in a network of camps
  in the north-west of Afghanistan. The camps at Darunta,
Bhesud, Jaji-Maydan, Khost and Tani are well known to the
  CIA and could be bombed from the air. Senior Whitehall
sources said that military programmes could only be put
in place when 'the outcome was clear', a reference to
Bill Clinton's policy of bombing Afghan camps with
cruise missiles in 1998 - which failed to capture
or kill bin Laden. Downing Street said that any action
would now take a 'twin track' approach, with the first
phase concentrating on finding bin Laden and breaking
down the al-Qaeda organisation, and the second phase
  concentrating on the fight against world terrorism.

In a clear indication that the Government is planning
to put Britain onto a war footing, Downing Street
has sent a request to all departments asking them
to draw up legislation in case of 'national emergency'.
  Plans are being prepared in the areas of extradition,
anti-terrorism legislation and crime to allow the
Government to act more swiftly against people suspected
  of being linked to terrorist organisations.

The move reflects similar action taken during the
Gulf War when internment powers were used to
imprison up to 100 Iraqis and Palestinians. Many
later successfully sued the Government for wrongful
imprisonment. The disclosure of the allied plans for
war came as tensions in the region heightened
dramatically yesterday. Despite earlier contradictory
statements, officials from Afghanistan's ruling Taliban
said they had established that their forces had
downed a pilotless drone aircraft over Tashkurghan
with machinegun fire as well as a helicopter near
Dara-i-Suf. Both areas are in Samangan, about
150 miles north-west of Kabul, where the anti-Taliban
  commander General Rashid Dostum reported that
his force of minority Uzbek fighters had made advances
against the Taliban.

Mystery surrounded the origin of the spy plane.
A spokesman for Afghanistan's opposition Northern
Alliance confirmed the helicopter crash, but blamed
it on a mechanical fault. 'The helicopter seems to have
  gone down because of technical reasons,' the
spokesman, Mohamed Ashraf Nadeem, said, adding
that the fate of those on board was unknown. The
Taliban's ambassador in Islamabad, Mullah Abdul
Saleem Zaeef, said the spyplane had been downed
while taking pictures over northern Afghanistan.

Washington frequently uses 'drones' to fly spy missions
  over Iraq, but the aircraft do not generally have defensive
capabilities and make up the majority of planes shot
down by Baghdad since the Gulf War. A Pentagon
spokesman in Washington would not comment on the
report. With America determined to press ahead with
military action after more than 6,800 people were killed
  in twin attacks on New York and Washington, Blair's aides
signalled that Britain would stand firmly behind Washington.

His resolve will be bolstered by a poll in today's Observer
that shows 65 per cent of Britons support surgical air
strikes against countries harbouring terrorists, and
63 per cent of voters believe that Britain is 'at war' already
against terrorists. Blair is likely to recall Parliament in an
effort to keep the broad political coalition between the
main political parties that has so far backed his stance.

There is increasing concern in government quarters that
a left-wing backlash against any military action could
damage Blair's standing. He is said to be furious that
Clare Short, the Cabinet Minister and Secretary of
State for International Development, has spoken out
against the militaristic language used since the atrocity.

She criticised Bush's use of the word 'crusade' as '
very unfortunate' and said that America was using
'lots of planes and guns to make everybody do their
bidding'.

Blair was briefed by key security and intelligence
officials for an hour as he travelled to New York and
Washington last week, increasing speculation that
military action was days away.

One of the officials was thought to be General Tom
Piggott, head of operational advice at the MoD. Blair
was also accompanied by Sir David Manning, a
Foreign Office adviser. An administration official in
America said that the President would soon sign
an executive order naming terrorist organisations
and specific terrorists around the world and freezing
their US assets.

Oxfam said yesterday that Afghanistan was facing
a humanitarian crisis as refugees fled south and
north to try to escape any military attacks. The charity
had ordered a 15,000 tonne emergency shipment
of food to Uzbekistan and was trying to move
emergency food into Afghanistan, where millions of
people are threatened with starvation. 'Afghanistan
hasn't been totally shut off. Why is the world waiting?

There is no need to wait. Aid can be got in now,' said
Alex Renton, an Oxfam spokesman. The intensive build-up
for war came barely 24 hours after Afghanistan's ruling
Islamic council of clerics said that they had asked
bin Laden to leave the country voluntarily, although
they insisted that they would not hand him over to the
US authorities.

America yesterday faced its most serious difficulty in
building a coalition to date: envoys from
Saudi Arabia - a crucial ally in the Gulf War of 10
years ago - told the State Department that the kingdom
  would resist granting the US use of its crucial Prince
  Sultan air base, which the Pentagon was planning
to use as a command centre. Even hesitation on the
Saudis' part towards the campaign would entrench
divisions in Washington, and strengthen the hand
of those wanting to get on with the war rather than wait
to build a consensus alliance.

The Saudi monarchy is - like Pakistan - also extremely
concerned about the domestic threat from its Islamic
fundamentalists, who have been offended by the
kingdom's alliance with the US. The US Defence Secretary,
Donald Rumsfeld, yesterday argued that the US should
make immediate plans to shift its command centre to Turkey.

Rumsfeld and the Secretary of State, Colin Powell, spent
the weekend in Washington working on details of the
deployment. Last night, Bush continued to make his
plans at Camp David in Maryland with his chief of
staff Andrew Card and his National Security Adviser
Condoleezza Rice.







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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2110
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-23 13:36:41
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] Ceasefire in Jeopardy in Middle East
Message:


Ceasefire in jeopardy as Israel cancels peace talks

Staff and agencies
Sunday September 23, 2001

The ceasefire between Israel and the Palestinians, along with America's
attempts to build support for military action among Middle Eastern states,
suffered another setback today as Israel cancelled a meeting between its
foreign minister, Shimon Peres, and the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.
According to cabinet secretary Gideon Saar, the.Israeli prime minister, 
Ariel
Sharon, ordered the talks to be cancelled because of concerns that
Palestinian violence had not abated and that "the meeting would give
legitimacy to certain types of terror." The arrest and subsequent release by
the Palestinians of Atef Abayyat, a leader of the Tanzim militia that 
claimed
responsibility for a drive-by killing on Thursday, is a key sticking
point.The office of Mr Peres, who reportedly did not attend a cabinet 
meeting
today in protest at the president's decision, would not comment. Israeli
media said he was considering pulling his moderate Labour party out of Mr
Sharon's unity government.One Palestinian cabinet member described the
decision as "irresponsible," but others insisted the meeting, scheduled for
5pm today, would go ahead nonetheless. They did not elaborate.Mr Arafat
pledged last week that the Palestinian authority would cease attacks on
Israel. But Mr Saar said the violence was continuing, albeit "at a reduced
level." The Israeli military has reported dozens of attacks in the West Bank
and Gaza Strip in the last two days, most against military installations and
none causing casualties. Palestinians also fired several mortar shells at
Jewish settlements in Gaza. Israeli tanks moved toward the Palestinian town
of Dir al-Balah and fired shells in response.Hardliners in the Israeli
cabinet want a total cessation of violence and the re-arrest of Abayyat
before talks take place. They say a Peres-Arafat meeting would provide Mr
Arafat with a stamp of approval to join the US-led anti-terror coalition,
even though Mr Sharon has branded Mr Arafat himself a terrorist.Since the
terrorist attacks on September 11, the US has intensified pressure on both
sides to maintain a ceasefire. The US secretary of state, Colin Powell, has
been in frequent telephone contact with both Mr Sharon and Mr Arafat to urge
them to establish a truce.Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said today's
aborted meeting was necessary to start the process of winding down the
violence. "What we need at the end of day is a series of steps that will
include ending the closure," he said, referring to Israeli roadblocks and
restrictions that have crippled the Palestinian economy during the fighting.
The Israelis have said the restrictions are necessary to keep Palestinian
attackers away from Israelis.







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Post ID:2111
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-23 13:50:16
Subject:Re: [onepeoplesproject] War for oil continues
Message:

Dave- Anti-Imperialist Revolutionaries must not sell people short at this 
time- what is needed first and formost is a broad mass united front against 
war abroad & the rise of fascism within the united states. (see Dimitrov) 
Revolutionaries must unite against imperialism, but this is not a mass 
rallying cry!!  (Unless one wishes to proceed without the people!)  
Underlying all of this, of course, is the latent debate that, in fact, Nov 
2000 has ushered in a new era of American Fascism (with a little help from 
their "friends") that was just waiting for a pretext to advance their 
agenda, (WTC=Reichstag?) which as you correctly point out, "It's the 
economy, stupid" - OIL.

In Unity & Struggle, Matthew Smith




----Original Message Follows----
From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [onepeoplesproject] War for oil continues
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:09:07 -0400

From the forthcoming (October) issue of For a Better World:
= = = = = = = = = =

War for oil continues

The 1991 attack on Iraq was a war for oil. The new "war against terror" is 
no such thing. It is the continuation of the war for oil, which never 
stopped.

  In February of 1990 Saddam Hussein told the Arab Cooperation Council, 
which consisted of Iraq, Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia that, "if the Gulf 
people, along with all Arabs, are not careful, the Arab Gulf region will be 
governed by the United States' will." Instead he proposed, "Agreement should 
be reached over clear and widespread pan-Arab cooperation programs among 
Arab countries in the economic, political, and educational fields." (Orbis, 
Winter, 1991.)

  In other words, Saddam proposed Arab unity and independence from 
imperialism (his word for U.S. policy.) His reward was the attack by George 
I Bush. Nonetheless, George I fell and Saddam remains to this day.

   In his September 21 speech to Congress George II Bush said
Americans are asking, "Who attacked our country?" The evidence we have 
gathered all points to a collection of loosely affiliated terrorist 
organizations known as Al Qaeda. . . Al Qaeda is to terror what the Mafia is 
to crime. But its goal is not making money; its goal is remaking the world 
and imposing its radical beliefs on people everywhere . . .

  There is a huge lie here. Every war, without exception, is based on 
economic causes. Bush would have us believe there is no economic root to Al 
Qaeda's motives. This is ridiculous.

He went on
They hate what they see right here in this chamber, a democratically elected 
government.

  He refers to his own dictatorially appointed regime as "democratically 
elected." This is even more ridiculous! He then gets to the real heart of 
it:
They [Al Qaeda] want to overthrow existing governments in many Muslim 
countries, such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan. They want to drive Israel 
out of the Middle East . . . . With every atrocity they hope that America 
grows fearful, retreating from the world and forsaking our friends. They 
stand against us because we stand in their way.

  Ah-hah! Bush mentions the allies in the Middle East through which U.S. 
imperialism dominates the Persian Gulf and its vast oil reserves. Egypt, 
Jordan, and Saudi Arabia are the very countries to which Saddam made his 
fateful proposals in 1990.

  Bush is afraid these regimes, like Iran in 1997, will be overthrown by 
forces like those in Al Qaeda and turned from U.S. allies into opponents. 
U.S. imperialism would then lose its domination of the Gulf.

  The war for oil has now struck in the U.S. itself. It will never end until 
imperialism is defeated and driven out of the Middle East. The only way this 
terrible war will ever end is through people's unity against imperialism.


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2112
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-23 20:24:06
Subject:abolish the family
Message:

Government's welfare chief promotes
marriage as way to move families out of
poverty

                     By LAURA MECKLER
                     The Associated Press
                     9/23/01 1:14 PM

"...Horn is still unabashedly pro-marriage. The landmark 1996 welfare law 
must be renewed next year, and the Bush administration is formulating its 
position on how it should be changed, he said. But Horn has personally 
detailed a number of ways that Congress might prod states, which have done 
virtually nothing to promote marriage in their welfare programs.

                     Congress should make it clear that states are supposed 
to be encouraging marriage, not just two-parent families, he said in an 
article this summer. Also, he said, government should pay for premarital 
education classes for low-income people considering marriage.

                     Horn also supports financial incentives, such as West 
Virginia's $100 monthly bonus for welfare parents who are married. He is 
also open to more radical ideas; for example, identifying young women who 
are at risk of getting pregnant and promising them $5,000 if they have their 
first child after marriage.

                     He also takes a conservative line on sex education, 
supporting abstinence-only education, which bars talk of contraception..."

************************

                     Government's welfare chief promotes
                     marriage as way to move families out of
                     poverty

                     By LAURA MECKLER
                     The Associated Press
                     9/23/01 1:14 PM

                     WASHINGTON (AP) -- Wade Horn, the nation's new welfare 
chief, believes a ring, a walk down the aisle and a promise to love, honor 
and cherish may be the key to moving families out of poverty.

                     Horn, an academic who says he relies on results, not 
theory, admits he has no evidence that government can do anything to 
persuade poor people to get married.

                     Still, he is using his new post at the Health and Human 
Services Department to amplify the voices of conservatives who believe 
marriage should be a bigger piece of welfare reform. He also is preaching 
the virtues of sexual abstinence, saying unmarried people should not be 
having sex.

                     "I think it's the healthiest choice, yes I do," said 
Horn, recently confirmed as assistant secretary for family support.

                     But Horn, whose agency is responsible for welfare, Head 
Start, child care, child abuse, foster care and adoption, is not a 
cookie-cutter conservative.

                     He says the success of welfare should be measured by 
the effect on children, not by the number of people who have left welfare. 
He volunteers that some people who have left welfare appear worse off than 
they were. He says the welfare system should find a way to help people move 
up the economic ladder by advancing to better jobs.

                     "I don't think we as a nation ought to be satisfied 
with simply moving people from welfare to the working poor," said Horn, who 
is returning for his second tour of administrative duty at HHS after six 
years leading the National Fatherhood Initiative(!), which he founded.

                     It is Horn's views on marriage that have headlines. 
Research suggests children raised in two-parent families are better off than 
those who rely on just one. Traditionally, the welfare system discouraged 
marriage, because eligibility for benefits is calculated using both parents' 
income.

                     In 1997, Horn suggested reversing the incentive. He 
said married couples should get preferential treatment in public benefits 
with limited spots, such as housing and Head Start.

                     Women's groups complained that this could trap poor 
women in abusive marriages because they stood to lose their benefits if they 
lost their husbands. Some 90 groups opposed Horn's nomination to the HHS 
job.

                     In his Senate confirmation hearing, Horn renounced 
these views, and easily was confirmed.

                     "I've thoughtfully considered critics of that idea," he 
said in an interview. "I've become convinced over time that ... it is too 
easy to translate it into a discrimination issue against single moms.

                     "I am not in this at all to bash single moms," he 
added. "You know why?  Because children are in single-mother households. If 
I were to kick single moms out of public housing or discriminate against 
single moms, kids
                     would suffer. I have no interest in that."

                     The turnabout has persuaded some of his loudest critics 
to give him a chance. Leaders of the NOW Legal Defense and Education Fund, 
which led the opposition to his nomination, plan to meet with him next 
month. "He's at least willing to listen," said the group's president, Kathy 
Rodgers.

                     Horn is still unabashedly pro-marriage. The landmark 
1996 welfare law must be renewed next year, and the Bush administration is 
formulating its position on how it should be changed, he said. But Horn has 
personally detailed a number of ways that Congress might prod states, which 
have done virtually nothing to promote marriage in their welfare programs.

                     Congress should make it clear that states are supposed 
to be encouraging marriage, not just two-parent families, he said in an 
article this summer. Also, he said, government should pay for premarital 
education classes for low-income people considering marriage.

                     Horn also supports financial incentives, such as West 
Virginia's $100 monthly bonus for welfare parents who are married. He is 
also open to more radical ideas; for example, identifying young women who 
are at risk of getting pregnant and promising them $5,000 if they have their 
first child after marriage.

                     He also takes a conservative line on sex education, 
supporting abstinence-only education, which bars talk of contraception.

                     "Heaven knows kids get contrary messages to abstinence 
every day. The idea that if parents emphasize abstinence to teen-agers that 
they will be completely oblivious to contrary messages that are coming from 
the popular culture, that's a ludicrous assumption," he said.

                     "Show me the 16-year-old who has never heard the word 
condom, or has no idea what it is or how to use one. But I can show you a 
lot of teen-agers who have never gotten the message that abstinence is the 
best choice."

                      Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

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Post ID:2115
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-23 23:30:34
Subject:People of Vieques...
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign asks that people forward this out to as 
many listserves as possible!!

FREE THE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
U.S. NAVY OUT OF VIEQUES!!
INTERNATIONAL SOLIDARITY; NO TO WAR!!

ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Committee for the Rescue and Development of Vieques
P.O. Box 1424  Vieques, Puerto Rico  00765
>(787) 741-0716    E mail:  bieke@...
>
>23 September, 2001
>
>A Shout for Peace
>The presence and activities of the US Navy in Vieques were immoral before 
>the 11th of September, and they continue to be immoral today.  Our 
>community in struggle has declared a moratorium on civil disobedience 
>actions based upon our committment to peace and as a show of solidarity 
>with the victims and families affected by the tragic events of 11 September 
>as well as concerns for the security of our people.
>
>However, we emphasize that our solidarity is directed toward to innocent 
>victims of the terrorist attacks and not toward the militaristic actions of 
>the US government.  The pain brought on by these violent acts for thousands 
>of families in the US, in Puerto Rico and around the world, is also our 
>pain.  And our struggle for peace is also the struggle for peace for the 
>US, for Puerto Rico and all the peoples of the world.
>
>We energetically reject terrorism, war and any type of violence as a means 
>to resolve conflicts in our world.  In Vieques, the US armed forces have 
>dropped more bombs that in all combined wars.  We have been victims of 
>every US military action since the Second World War - Korea, Vietnam, the 
>Persian Gulf, Yugoslavia and the many US military interventions in the 
>Americas.  We do not want to be used for preparing wars in the 21st 
>century.
>
>Our people live the effects of war - military contamination and its serious 
>health effects; restrictions on movement in our own land; forced 
>immigration and the breaking up of the family; the dangers and tension from 
>the daily possibilities of a horrible military accident and the 
>psychological impact of this situation for our people.  We struggle to 
>demilitarize Vieques.  Our people are the first to suffer the effects of 
>invasions and bombings of attacks launched  by the US government against 
>outher countries.  We do not want more war for Vieques.  We do not want any 
>more war for anybody in this world.  We join the growing peace movement 
>that throughout the world - including the United States - is revitalizing 
>itself before the imminent attack by the US against Afghanistan.
>
>We will continue to struggle for demilitarization, decontamination, return 
>of our lands and sustainable community development in a future Vieques 
>freed from the Navy.  We are preparing now for the next civil disobedience 
>actions during the next maneuvers.  We are recruiting in the neighborhoods 
>in preparation for a massive entrance of Viequenses and Puerto Ricans from 
>all parts of the archipelago.
>
>We have declared a moratorium on civil disobedience because we value life - 
>ours and the lives of everyone.  All of the Vieques organizations related 
>to the struggle against the military presence approved the moratorium 
>because ours is a people of peace.  But we wish to make very clear, that 
>our solidarity is directed toward the innocent victims of terrorism.  We 
>could never support or applaud the terrorism of aircraft carries launching 
>missiles against hospitals, schools, against populated cities, in the name 
>of vengeance and of a democracy that in Vieques is stepped upon by the US 
>Navy.
>
>We struggle for peace in Vieques, peace in New York, peace in Washington, 
>in Afghanistan and in the entire world.
>
>SAY NO TO WAR!  YES TO PEACE!


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Post ID:2116
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-23 23:48:01
Subject:Re: War for oil continues
Message:

yes matt, we must unite mainly against the far right trigger happy elements 
of imperialism. practicly that translates into destroying bret schundler in 
november in order to send a clear message across the nation. also we must 
focus our revolutionary positions more locally and win ras baraka for newark 
council may2002. the ideological agreements/disagreements will not be 
productive outside of the peoples political development. while the greens & 
Fabw organize to put schundler in office, revolutionaries must reach the 
people.

speak out against terrorism, US imperialism
wednesday, 8:00pm brower commons

joe smith


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
>CC: njfo@yahoogroups.com, poprogress@yahoogroups.com, 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: [onepeoplesproject] War for oil continues
>Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 17:50:16
>
>Dave- Anti-Imperialist Revolutionaries must not sell people short at this
>time- what is needed first and formost is a broad mass united front against
>war abroad & the rise of fascism within the united states. (see Dimitrov)
>Revolutionaries must unite against imperialism, but this is not a mass
>rallying cry!!  (Unless one wishes to proceed without the people!)
>Underlying all of this, of course, is the latent debate that, in fact, Nov
>2000 has ushered in a new era of American Fascism (with a little help from
>their "friends") that was just waiting for a pretext to advance their
>agenda, (WTC=Reichstag?) which as you correctly point out, "It's the
>economy, stupid" - OIL.
>
>In Unity & Struggle, Matthew Smith
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
>To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [onepeoplesproject] War for oil continues
>Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:09:07 -0400
>
>From the forthcoming (October) issue of For a Better World:
>= = = = = = = = = =
>
>War for oil continues
>
>The 1991 attack on Iraq was a war for oil. The new "war against terror" is
>no such thing. It is the continuation of the war for oil, which never
>stopped.
>
>   In February of 1990 Saddam Hussein told the Arab Cooperation Council,
>which consisted of Iraq, Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia that, "if the Gulf
>people, along with all Arabs, are not careful, the Arab Gulf region will be
>governed by the United States' will." Instead he proposed, "Agreement 
>should
>be reached over clear and widespread pan-Arab cooperation programs among
>Arab countries in the economic, political, and educational fields." (Orbis,
>Winter, 1991.)
>
>   In other words, Saddam proposed Arab unity and independence from
>imperialism (his word for U.S. policy.) His reward was the attack by George
>I Bush. Nonetheless, George I fell and Saddam remains to this day.
>
>    In his September 21 speech to Congress George II Bush said
>Americans are asking, "Who attacked our country?" The evidence we have
>gathered all points to a collection of loosely affiliated terrorist
>organizations known as Al Qaeda. . . Al Qaeda is to terror what the Mafia 
>is
>to crime. But its goal is not making money; its goal is remaking the world
>and imposing its radical beliefs on people everywhere . . .
>
>   There is a huge lie here. Every war, without exception, is based on
>economic causes. Bush would have us believe there is no economic root to Al
>Qaeda's motives. This is ridiculous.
>
>He went on
>They hate what they see right here in this chamber, a democratically 
>elected
>government.
>
>   He refers to his own dictatorially appointed regime as "democratically
>elected." This is even more ridiculous! He then gets to the real heart of
>it:
>They [Al Qaeda] want to overthrow existing governments in many Muslim
>countries, such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan. They want to drive 
>Israel
>out of the Middle East . . . . With every atrocity they hope that America
>grows fearful, retreating from the world and forsaking our friends. They
>stand against us because we stand in their way.
>
>   Ah-hah! Bush mentions the allies in the Middle East through which U.S.
>imperialism dominates the Persian Gulf and its vast oil reserves. Egypt,
>Jordan, and Saudi Arabia are the very countries to which Saddam made his
>fateful proposals in 1990.
>
>   Bush is afraid these regimes, like Iran in 1997, will be overthrown by
>forces like those in Al Qaeda and turned from U.S. allies into opponents.
>U.S. imperialism would then lose its domination of the Gulf.
>
>   The war for oil has now struck in the U.S. itself. It will never end 
>until
>imperialism is defeated and driven out of the Middle East. The only way 
>this
>terrible war will ever end is through people's unity against imperialism.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2117
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-24 12:33:25
Subject:Re: About Supporting America/Military buildup
Message:

to understand more better this conversation read the below post and check at 
rugreens@egroups.com the most recent posts by joe kaminiski. (ray higbee is 
the new jersey greens campus chief)

this is the ru greens & msu greens line on the war. greens are corporate 
players! buy military stock!! don't even represent anything progressive - 
for greens at rutgers and throughout new jersey i would suggest mutiny, dump 
coleman and join/build the local struggle for peoples democracy.

in new brunswick you can join the new brunswick peoples campaign, currently 
our working platform is to bury schundler (scientifically), ras baraka for 
newark city council may2002, and new brunswick mayor city council and 
elected school board november2002. we are also working with NB Community 
Arts Mural Project to complete a mural at the corner of lee and hale st. 
contact joe smith can_bush@...

in and around newark you can join the committee to elect ras baraka to 
newark city council. at least e-mail rasjuabaraka@... to be kept up to 
date on activities - though there is much any volunteers can do, i am sure 
of it. 808 south 10th street newark tuesdays 7:30pm meetings.

some peoples i know to support greens claim to be revolutionaries, even 
communists. overall, the greens would at the very minimal claim to represent 
the people and the environment, but no more can this be the case. the true 
colors have come out - GREEN$ want war!

hey higbee, who you callin' "ignorant"? you slimy fuck.

joe smith
New Brunswick Peoples Campaign


>From: "Ray Higbee Jr" <whcoon@...>
>To: RUGreens@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [RUGreens] Re: About Supporting America/Military buildup
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 15:18:17 -0000
>
>I agree completely with Joe. I own stock in several areas. Investing
>in the military market is definity a sure money-maker. I also agree
>that keeping the United States Economy strong is necessary.
>
>However, we have to keep presecptive. By investing in military
>equipment, when we know it could be used on innocent civizens, we hve
>given our consent to business to continue making their product. We
>have given our consent for the United States to kill.
>
>On the other side, the military hires the most people in the United
>States. Soliders, Officers, Engineers, Technicions, Manufacturers,
>and Janitors are all hired to work directly or indirectly by the
>military. It takes hundreds of people to build a commerical airliner,
>thousands to build a military airplane. If we were to cut the defense
>budget in half tomorrow, it would be the workers who suffered. Oddly
>enough, the government hires many people who would otherwise have low-
>paying or no jobs at all.
>
>Therefore, if the budget is increased more than usual, so more
>contacts can be handed out to manuferucers, so the Stock Market will
>be restored, American Workers will benefit. But what of the ignorant
>innocents in Afganhistan, or Palestine? This is a twisted game
>of "Who comes first?"
>
>Long term, we need to replace building fighters with building houses.
>The real question is how do we do it?
>                                                        `Ray
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2118
Sender:Joseph Kaminski <jkaminsk@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-24 13:05:20
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] Re: About Supporting America/Military buildup
Message:

Please don't call me a Green.  I am a registered Republican, I am on this
list in order to get a better prespective on the current happenings of
the Social Democrats around here.  I am not progressive, well I guess you
could say I am on social issues, but economically, i most definately am
not.  Nobody is going to elect your communist candiate for Newark city
council in 2002.  We (the Right and Capitalists) are far to strong, you
will never stop us because the bottom line is financial Captial, and we
have it.  We are far better organized than you will ever be, and we are
willing to fight just as hard to maintain a strong economy, and you are to
destroy it.  i wish Franks would have defeated Schundler, but thats the
past, and we will still maintain power even after McGreevy wins, because
he is more one of Us than his is one of you !!!

Folk Rock Joe

On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, joseph smith wrote:

> 
> to understand more better this conversation read the below post and check at 
> rugreens@egroups.com the most recent posts by joe kaminiski. (ray higbee is 
> the new jersey greens campus chief)
> 
> this is the ru greens & msu greens line on the war. greens are corporate 
> players! buy military stock!! don't even represent anything progressive - 
> for greens at rutgers and throughout new jersey i would suggest mutiny, dump 
> coleman and join/build the local struggle for peoples democracy.
> 
> in new brunswick you can join the new brunswick peoples campaign, currently 
> our working platform is to bury schundler (scientifically), ras baraka for 
> newark city council may2002, and new brunswick mayor city council and 
> elected school board november2002. we are also working with NB Community 
> Arts Mural Project to complete a mural at the corner of lee and hale st. 
> contact joe smith can_bush@...
> 
> in and around newark you can join the committee to elect ras baraka to 
> newark city council. at least e-mail rasjuabaraka@... to be kept up to 
> date on activities - though there is much any volunteers can do, i am sure 
> of it. 808 south 10th street newark tuesdays 7:30pm meetings.
> 
> some peoples i know to support greens claim to be revolutionaries, even 
> communists. overall, the greens would at the very minimal claim to represent 
> the people and the environment, but no more can this be the case. the true 
> colors have come out - GREEN$ want war!
> 
> hey higbee, who you callin' "ignorant"? you slimy fuck.
> 
> joe smith
> New Brunswick Peoples Campaign
> 
> 
> >From: "Ray Higbee Jr" <whcoon@...>
> >To: RUGreens@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [RUGreens] Re: About Supporting America/Military buildup
> >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 15:18:17 -0000
> >
> >I agree completely with Joe. I own stock in several areas. Investing
> >in the military market is definity a sure money-maker. I also agree
> >that keeping the United States Economy strong is necessary.
> >
> >However, we have to keep presecptive. By investing in military
> >equipment, when we know it could be used on innocent civizens, we hve
> >given our consent to business to continue making their product. We
> >have given our consent for the United States to kill.
> >
> >On the other side, the military hires the most people in the United
> >States. Soliders, Officers, Engineers, Technicions, Manufacturers,
> >and Janitors are all hired to work directly or indirectly by the
> >military. It takes hundreds of people to build a commerical airliner,
> >thousands to build a military airplane. If we were to cut the defense
> >budget in half tomorrow, it would be the workers who suffered. Oddly
> >enough, the government hires many people who would otherwise have low-
> >paying or no jobs at all.
> >
> >Therefore, if the budget is increased more than usual, so more
> >contacts can be handed out to manuferucers, so the Stock Market will
> >be restored, American Workers will benefit. But what of the ignorant
> >innocents in Afganhistan, or Palestine? This is a twisted game
> >of "Who comes first?"
> >
> >Long term, we need to replace building fighters with building houses.
> >The real question is how do we do it?
> >                                                        `Ray
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RUGreens-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2119
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-24 13:06:06
Subject:Speech by Fidel Castro Ruz
Message:

Cuba claims that it is opposed to terrorism and opposed to war

Speech by Commander in Chief Fidel Castro Ruz, President of the Republic of 
Cuba. Havana, September 22, 2001

Fellow countrymen:

No one can deny that terrorism is today a dangerous and ethically 
indefensible phenomenon, which should be eradicated regardless of its deep 
origins, the economic and political factors that brought it to live and 
those responsible for it.The unanimous irritation caused by the human and 
psychological damage brought on the American people by the unexpected and 
shocking death of thousands of innocent people whose images have shaken the 
world is perfectly understandable. But who have profited? The extreme right, 
the most backward and right-wing forces, those in favor of crushing the 
growing world rebellion and sweeping away everything progressive that is 
still left on the planet. It was an enormous error, a huge injustice and a 
great crime whomever they are who organized or are responsible for such 
action.However, the tragedy should not be used to recklessly start a war 
that could actually unleash an endless carnage of innocent people and all of 
this on behalf of justice and under the peculiar and bizarre name of 
"Infinite Justice".In the last few days we have seen the hasty establishment 
of the basis, the concept, the true purposes, the spirit and the conditions 
for such a war. No one would be able to affirm that it was not something 
thought out well in advance, something that was just waiting for its chance 
to materialize. Those who after the so-called end of the cold war continued 
a military build-up and the development of the most sophisticated means to 
kill and exterminate human beings were aware that the large military 
investments would give them the privilege to impose an absolute and complete 
dominance over the other peoples of the world. The ideologists of the 
imperialist system knew very well what they were doing and why they were 
doing it.After the shock and sincere sorrow felt by every people on Earth 
for the atrocious and insane terrorist attack that targeted the American 
people, the most extremist ideologists and the most belligerent hawks, 
already set in privileged power positions, have taken command of the most 
powerful country in the world whose military and technological capabilities 
would seem infinite. Actually, its capacity to destroy and kill is enormous 
while its inclination towards equanimity, serenity, thoughtfulness and 
restrain is minimal.The combination of elements --including complicity and 
the common enjoyment of privileges-- the prevailing opportunism, confusion 
and panic make it almost impossible to avoid a bloody and unpredictable 
outcome.The first victims of whatever military actions are undertaken will 
be the billions of people living in the poor and underdeveloped world with 
their unbelievable economic and social problems, their unpayable debts and 
the ruinous prices of their basic commodities; their growing natural and 
ecological catastrophes, their hunger and misery, the massive 
undernourishment of their children, teenagers and adults; their terrible 
AIDS epidemic, their malaria, their tuberculosis and their infectious 
diseases that threaten whole nations with extermination.The grave economic 
world crisis was already a real and irrefutable fact affecting absolutely 
every one of the big economic power centers. Such crisis will inevitably 
grow deeper under the new circumstances and when it becomes unbearable for 
the overwhelming majority of the peoples, it will bring chaos, rebellion and 
the impossibility to govern.But the price will also be unpayable for the 
rich countries. For years to come it would be impossible to speak strong 
enough about the environment and the ecology, or about ideas and research 
done and tested, or about projects for the protection of Nature because that 
space and possibility would be taken by military actions, war and crimes as 
infinite as "Infinite Justice", that is, the name given to the war operation 
to be unleashed.Can there be any hope left after having listened, hardly 36 
hours ago, to the speech made the President before de U.S. Congress? I will 
avoid the use of adjectives, qualifiers or offensive words towards the 
author of that speech. They would be absolutely unnecessary and untimely 
when the tensions and seriousness of the moment advise thoughtfulness and 
equanimity. I will limit myself to underline some short phrases that say it 
all:"We will use every necessary weapon of war.""Americans should not expect 
one battle, but a lengthy campaign unlike any other we have ever 
seen.""Every nation in every region now has a decision to make. Either you 
are with us or you are with the terrorists.""I�ve called the armed forces to 
alert and there is a reason. The hour is coming when America will act and 
you will make us proud.""This is the world�s fight, this is civilization�s 
fight.""I ask for your patience [...] in what will be a long struggle.""The 
great achievement of our time and the great hope of every time, now depend 
on us.""The course of this conflict is not known, yet its outcome is 
certain. [...] And we know that God is not neutral."I ask our fellow 
countrymen to meditate deeply and calmly on the ideas contained in several 
of the above-mentioned phrases:. Either you are with us or you are with the 
terrorists.. No nation of the world has been left out of the dilemma, not 
even the big and powerful states; none has escaped the threat of war or 
attacks.. We will use any weapon.No procedure has been excluded, regardless 
of its ethics, or any threat whatever fatal, either nuclear, chemical, 
biological or any other.. It will not be short combat but a lengthy war, 
lasting many years, unparalleled in history.. It is the world�s fight; it is 
civilization�s fight.. The achievements of our times and the hope of every 
time, now depend on us.Finally, an unheard of confession in a political 
speech on the eve of a war, and no less than in times of apocalyptic risks: 
The course of this conflict is not known; yet its outcome is certain. And we 
know that God is not neutral. This is an amazing assertion. When I think 
about the real or imagined parties involved that bizarre holy war that is 
about to begin, I find it difficult to make a distinction about where 
fanaticism is stronger.On Thursday, before the United States Congress, the 
idea was designed of a world military dictatorship under the exclusive rule 
of force, irrespective of any international laws or institutions. The United 
Nations Organization, simply ignored in the present crisis, would fail to 
have any authority or prerogative whatsoever. There would be only one boss, 
only one judge, and only one law.We have all been ordered to ally either 
with the United States government or with terrorism. Cuba, the country that 
has suffered the most and the longest from terrorist actions, the one whose 
people are not afraid of anything because there is no threat or power in the 
world that can intimidate it, with a high morale Cuba claims that it is 
opposed to terrorism and opposed to war. Although the possibilities are now 
remote, Cuba reaffirms the need to avert a war of unpredictable consequences 
whose very authors have admitted not to have the least idea of how the 
events will unfold. Likewise, Cuba reiterates its willingness to cooperate 
with every country in the total eradication of terrorism.An objective and 
calm friend should advise the United States government against throwing the 
young American soldiers into an uncertain war in remote, isolated and 
inaccessible places, like a fight against ghosts, not knowing where they are 
or even if they exist or not, or whether the people they kill are or not 
responsible for the death of their innocent fellow countrymen killed in the 
United States.Cuba will never declare itself an enemy of the American people 
that is today subjected to an unprecedented campaign to sow hatred and a 
vengeful spirit, so much so that even the music that sings to peace has been 
banned. On the contrary, Cuba will make that music its own, and even our 
children will sing their songs to peace while the announced bloody war 
lasts.Whatever happens, the territory of Cuba will never be used for 
terrorist actions against the American people and we will do everything 
within our reach to prevent such actions against that people. Today we are 
expressing our solidarity while urging to peace and calmness. One day they 
will admit we were right.Our independence, our principles and our social 
achievements we will defend with honor to the last drop of blood, if we are 
attacked!It will not be easy to fabricate pretexts to do it. They are 
already talking about a war using all the necessary weapons but it will be 
good recalling that not even that would be a new experience. Almost four 
decades ago, hundreds of strategic and tactical nuclear weapons were aimed 
at Cuba and nobody remembers anyone of our countrymen sleepless over that.We 
are the same sons and daughters of that heroic people, with a patriotic and 
revolutionary conscience that is higher than ever. It is time for serenity 
and courage.The world will grow aware of this and will raise its voice in 
the face of the terrible threatening drama that it is about to suffer.As for 
Cubans, this is the right time to proclaim more proud and resolute than 
ever:

Socialism or death!Homeland or death! We will overcome!

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2120
Sender:whcoon@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-24 13:06:20
Subject:Re: About Supporting America/Military buildup
Message:

  First of all. The member posting on the RUGreens supporting buying military 
stock DOES NOT represent the "Greens" view on any level. 
       
       Secondly, if you read what I wrote carefully and spent less time 
plugging your "causes," you would realize that I understood Joseph's 
point-of-view, I believe he means well when he says he wants the US economy 
to bounce back. As for individual persons making a profit off the stocks, 
that is their own business. Feel free to take it up with him. 
       
      Third, I am NOT the NJ Campus "Chief." I am tentatively the North 
Jersey coordinator until such time it can be ratified by the Rutgers-New 
Brunswick, Montclair State and Princeton Universities chapters. This position 
was given to me by Remo Stockamp (ms), who was the NJ Campus Green 
Coordinator until two months ago. 

       Fourth, here are the links for anyone to see on the Green Party of the 
United States, and the National Campus Greens chapters. The GPNJ position 
shall be available soon, as it was formed at the convention yesterday. 

<A HREF="www.gpus.org">www.gpus.org</A>                                          

<A HREF="http://www.campusgreens.org/sept11.html">http://www.campusgreens.org/sept11.html</A>

<A HREF="www.gpnj.org">www.gpnj.org</A>

If anyone has any questions, please feel free to e-mail me. If you have 
nothing but insluts, please send just one e-mail.

Finally, I apologize for this, but it must be said.  I have never met Joesph 
Smith personally. I have seen him kicked off at one listerver, the People's 
Organization for Progress (based out of Patterson, led by Larry Hamm). He has 
made it a mission to bash the Green Party and its members any chance he gets. 
His does not want our help unlesss we sumbit to his demands, and follow his 
way. He used incomplete postings as scare tactics. Hoping to gain support for 
himself. He is a scared liberal and a sad little person. Mr. Smith, the Green 
Party will not go away. We will now stay in the 1% of the vote where it is 
safe. We are going after the Republican and (Heaven Forbid) the Democratic 
National Committees. We shall try to win local offices and change the 
enviornment, pay, and living conditions for all people for the better. But we 
shall do it with action, and not just by rhetoic.  

And don't call me a slimy fuck please. It hurts my feelings.
                                                                              
                   ~Ray Higbee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2122
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-24 16:24:21
Subject:Re: [nbpc] abolish the family
Message:

abolish the family,

&corresponding minimum democratic demands of self-determination for women in 
relation to patriarchy (that is, democratic right to determine their 
collective (not merely individual "divorce") social relation to 
re-production &the family...) &to be determined thru e.g., national women's 
plebescite (&national to address distinctions of family stage w/in different 
nations, &w/in context of imperial national relations...), and reparations 
for historic theft &exploitation of both spheres of women's production, the 
greatest oppression in history.

"emancipation", "rights"... is empty talk unless as an expression of 
struggle for POWER, i.e., women's power over the forces of re-production, 
against patriarchy &the family which is the system of male supremacy 
&women's slavery.

to put forward only minimum, democratic slogans (&not even develop these) 
provides no revolutionary, proletarian leadership to women's struggle.  
which leaves the women's movement in the hands of bourgeois "feminism", thus 
giving chauvanistic male revolutionaries "cause" to say "the women's 
movement is bourgeois and divisive!" & dismiss it.

w/o exhausting the full revolutionary potential of the women's liberation 
struggle, world revolution will not succeed.  see: ussr, china...

cliff


>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: amirib@..., breakingchains@..., gregdig65@...,      
>   tamaradahan@..., mauracarey@..., njfo@egroups.com,       
>  onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] abolish the family
>Date: Wed, 09 Jan 1980 18:23:04 -0500
>
>Cliff,
>I think that we should clearly oppose any attempts to coerce anyone 
>economicly or
>otherwise into marriage. On the other hand people have the right to be 
>married if they
>choose. You can't abolish the family from outside it. We are still fighting 
>for
>democrcay in the U.S. They have been attacking the family since the days of 
>chattel
>slavery and it is still going on along with the rest of slavery's legacy. 
>Before we
>can talk about "abolish the family" it has to be able to exist. (The 
>destruction of
>the projects in New Brunswick without any replacemnt housing destroyed 
>countless
>families). Just as we ultimately want to go beyond democracy to socilaism 
>and
>Communism, yet we realize that first we must get democracy, so to before we 
>can
>abolish the family it must be allowed to exist.
>     Family is very much related to the struggle for democracy before the 
>rise of
>bourgeois democratic revolutions peasant families, serf families, slave 
>families, were
>devasted raped, exploited, torn apart. (the right of the first night, 
>dramatized in
>"Braveheart" and the horror of  rape during chattel slavery).
>    We develop a program that demands children's right to get out of 
>abusive
>situations. We want women to be able to have the unchallenged right to 
>divorce etc. We
>must  fight for institutions that can provide services and resources that 
>imperialism
>puts on families. I think that the program certainly needs to be devloped 
>and I think
>that it is a significant aspect of women's emancipation and the democratic 
>struggle.
>But the slogan "abolish the family" is ultra-left.
>
>Keith
>
>cliff smith wrote:
>
> > Government's welfare chief promotes
> > marriage as way to move families out of
> > poverty
> >
> >                      By LAURA MECKLER
> >                      The Associated Press
> >                      9/23/01 1:14 PM
> >
> > "...Horn is still unabashedly pro-marriage. The landmark 1996 welfare 
>law
> > must be renewed next year, and the Bush administration is formulating 
>its
> > position on how it should be changed, he said. But Horn has personally
> > detailed a number of ways that Congress might prod states, which have 
>done
> > virtually nothing to promote marriage in their welfare programs.
> >
> >                      Congress should make it clear that states are 
>supposed
> > to be encouraging marriage, not just two-parent families, he said in an
> > article this summer. Also, he said, government should pay for premarital
> > education classes for low-income people considering marriage.
> >
> >                      Horn also supports financial incentives, such as 
>West
> > Virginia's $100 monthly bonus for welfare parents who are married. He is
> > also open to more radical ideas; for example, identifying young women 
>who
> > are at risk of getting pregnant and promising them $5,000 if they have 
>their
> > first child after marriage.
> >
> >                      He also takes a conservative line on sex education,
> > supporting abstinence-only education, which bars talk of 
>contraception..."
> >
> > ************************
> >
> >                      Government's welfare chief promotes
> >                      marriage as way to move families out of
> >                      poverty
> >
> >                      By LAURA MECKLER
> >                      The Associated Press
> >                      9/23/01 1:14 PM
> >
> >                      WASHINGTON (AP) -- Wade Horn, the nation's new 
>welfare
> > chief, believes a ring, a walk down the aisle and a promise to love, 
>honor
> > and cherish may be the key to moving families out of poverty.
> >
> >                      Horn, an academic who says he relies on results, 
>not
> > theory, admits he has no evidence that government can do anything to
> > persuade poor people to get married.
> >
> >                      Still, he is using his new post at the Health and 
>Human
> > Services Department to amplify the voices of conservatives who believe
> > marriage should be a bigger piece of welfare reform. He also is 
>preaching
> > the virtues of sexual abstinence, saying unmarried people should not be
> > having sex.
> >
> >                      "I think it's the healthiest choice, yes I do," 
>said
> > Horn, recently confirmed as assistant secretary for family support.
> >
> >                      But Horn, whose agency is responsible for welfare, 
>Head
> > Start, child care, child abuse, foster care and adoption, is not a
> > cookie-cutter conservative.
> >
> >                      He says the success of welfare should be measured 
>by
> > the effect on children, not by the number of people who have left 
>welfare.
> > He volunteers that some people who have left welfare appear worse off 
>than
> > they were. He says the welfare system should find a way to help people 
>move
> > up the economic ladder by advancing to better jobs.
> >
> >                      "I don't think we as a nation ought to be satisfied
> > with simply moving people from welfare to the working poor," said Horn, 
>who
> > is returning for his second tour of administrative duty at HHS after six
> > years leading the National Fatherhood Initiative(!), which he founded.
> >
> >                      It is Horn's views on marriage that have headlines.
> > Research suggests children raised in two-parent families are better off 
>than
> > those who rely on just one. Traditionally, the welfare system 
>discouraged
> > marriage, because eligibility for benefits is calculated using both 
>parents'
> > income.
> >
> >                      In 1997, Horn suggested reversing the incentive. He
> > said married couples should get preferential treatment in public 
>benefits
> > with limited spots, such as housing and Head Start.
> >
> >                      Women's groups complained that this could trap poor
> > women in abusive marriages because they stood to lose their benefits if 
>they
> > lost their husbands. Some 90 groups opposed Horn's nomination to the HHS
> > job.
> >
> >                      In his Senate confirmation hearing, Horn renounced
> > these views, and easily was confirmed.
> >
> >                      "I've thoughtfully considered critics of that 
>idea," he
> > said in an interview. "I've become convinced over time that ... it is 
>too
> > easy to translate it into a discrimination issue against single moms.
> >
> >                      "I am not in this at all to bash single moms," he
> > added. "You know why?  Because children are in single-mother households. 
>If
> > I were to kick single moms out of public housing or discriminate against
> > single moms, kids
> >                      would suffer. I have no interest in that."
> >
> >                      The turnabout has persuaded some of his loudest 
>critics
> > to give him a chance. Leaders of the NOW Legal Defense and Education 
>Fund,
> > which led the opposition to his nomination, plan to meet with him next
> > month. "He's at least willing to listen," said the group's president, 
>Kathy
> > Rodgers.
> >
> >                      Horn is still unabashedly pro-marriage. The 
>landmark
> > 1996 welfare law must be renewed next year, and the Bush administration 
>is
> > formulating its position on how it should be changed, he said. But Horn 
>has
> > personally detailed a number of ways that Congress might prod states, 
>which
> > have done virtually nothing to promote marriage in their welfare 
>programs.
> >
> >                      Congress should make it clear that states are 
>supposed
> > to be encouraging marriage, not just two-parent families, he said in an
> > article this summer. Also, he said, government should pay for premarital
> > education classes for low-income people considering marriage.
> >
> >                      Horn also supports financial incentives, such as 
>West
> > Virginia's $100 monthly bonus for welfare parents who are married. He is
> > also open to more radical ideas; for example, identifying young women 
>who
> > are at risk of getting pregnant and promising them $5,000 if they have 
>their
> > first child after marriage.
> >
> >                      He also takes a conservative line on sex education,
> > supporting abstinence-only education, which bars talk of contraception.
> >
> >                      "Heaven knows kids get contrary messages to 
>abstinence
> > every day. The idea that if parents emphasize abstinence to teen-agers 
>that
> > they will be completely oblivious to contrary messages that are coming 
>from
> > the popular culture, that's a ludicrous assumption," he said.
> >
> >                      "Show me the 16-year-old who has never heard the 
>word
> > condom, or has no idea what it is or how to use one. But I can show you 
>a
> > lot of teen-agers who have never gotten the message that abstinence is 
>the
> > best choice."
> >
> >                       Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights 
>reserved.
> > This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
>redistributed.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2123
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-24 16:37:08
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [RUGreens] Re: About Supporting America/Military buildup
Message:

salute yr honesty,
if not yr historical political consciousness.


>From: Joseph Kaminski <jkaminsk@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: joseph smith <can_bush@...>
>CC: whcoon@..., RUGreens@yahoogroups.com, jfort845@..., 
>jmosley1@..., rustudentsforpeace@..., mauracarey@..., 
>amirib@..., nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, 
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com, coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, 
>vivaohio@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: [RUGreens] Re: About Supporting America/Military 
>buildup
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:05:20 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Please don't call me a Green.  I am a registered Republican, I am on this
>list in order to get a better prespective on the current happenings of
>the Social Democrats around here.  I am not progressive, well I guess you
>could say I am on social issues, but economically, i most definately am
>not.  Nobody is going to elect your communist candiate for Newark city
>council in 2002.  We (the Right and Capitalists) are far to strong, you
>will never stop us because the bottom line is financial Captial, and we
>have it.  We are far better organized than you will ever be, and we are
>willing to fight just as hard to maintain a strong economy, and you are to
>destroy it.  i wish Franks would have defeated Schundler, but thats the
>past, and we will still maintain power even after McGreevy wins, because
>he is more one of Us than his is one of you !!!
>
>Folk Rock Joe
>
>On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, joseph smith wrote:
>
> >
> > to understand more better this conversation read the below post and 
>check at
> > rugreens@egroups.com the most recent posts by joe kaminiski. (ray higbee 
>is
> > the new jersey greens campus chief)
> >
> > this is the ru greens & msu greens line on the war. greens are corporate
> > players! buy military stock!! don't even represent anything progressive 
>-
> > for greens at rutgers and throughout new jersey i would suggest mutiny, 
>dump
> > coleman and join/build the local struggle for peoples democracy.
> >
> > in new brunswick you can join the new brunswick peoples campaign, 
>currently
> > our working platform is to bury schundler (scientifically), ras baraka 
>for
> > newark city council may2002, and new brunswick mayor city council and
> > elected school board november2002. we are also working with NB Community
> > Arts Mural Project to complete a mural at the corner of lee and hale st.
> > contact joe smith can_bush@...
> >
> > in and around newark you can join the committee to elect ras baraka to
> > newark city council. at least e-mail rasjuabaraka@... to be kept up 
>to
> > date on activities - though there is much any volunteers can do, i am 
>sure
> > of it. 808 south 10th street newark tuesdays 7:30pm meetings.
> >
> > some peoples i know to support greens claim to be revolutionaries, even
> > communists. overall, the greens would at the very minimal claim to 
>represent
> > the people and the environment, but no more can this be the case. the 
>true
> > colors have come out - GREEN$ want war!
> >
> > hey higbee, who you callin' "ignorant"? you slimy fuck.
> >
> > joe smith
> > New Brunswick Peoples Campaign
> >
> >
> > >From: "Ray Higbee Jr" <whcoon@...>
> > >To: RUGreens@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [RUGreens] Re: About Supporting America/Military buildup
> > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 15:18:17 -0000
> > >
> > >I agree completely with Joe. I own stock in several areas. Investing
> > >in the military market is definity a sure money-maker. I also agree
> > >that keeping the United States Economy strong is necessary.
> > >
> > >However, we have to keep presecptive. By investing in military
> > >equipment, when we know it could be used on innocent civizens, we hve
> > >given our consent to business to continue making their product. We
> > >have given our consent for the United States to kill.
> > >
> > >On the other side, the military hires the most people in the United
> > >States. Soliders, Officers, Engineers, Technicions, Manufacturers,
> > >and Janitors are all hired to work directly or indirectly by the
> > >military. It takes hundreds of people to build a commerical airliner,
> > >thousands to build a military airplane. If we were to cut the defense
> > >budget in half tomorrow, it would be the workers who suffered. Oddly
> > >enough, the government hires many people who would otherwise have low-
> > >paying or no jobs at all.
> > >
> > >Therefore, if the budget is increased more than usual, so more
> > >contacts can be handed out to manuferucers, so the Stock Market will
> > >be restored, American Workers will benefit. But what of the ignorant
> > >innocents in Afganhistan, or Palestine? This is a twisted game
> > >of "Who comes first?"
> > >
> > >Long term, we need to replace building fighters with building houses.
> > >The real question is how do we do it?
> > >                                                        `Ray
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > RUGreens-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2124
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-24 16:45:15
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: About Supporting America/Military buildup
Message:

green$ are anti working class

vote for green is vote for republican

peoples war on the right

cliff


>From: whcoon@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: can_bush@..., jmosley1@..., rustudentsforpeace@..., 
>        mauracarey@..., Amirib@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com,        onepeoplesproject@egroups.com, 
>coalitionforjustice@egroups.com,        vivaohio@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: About Supporting America/Military buildup
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:06:20 EDT
>
>   First of all. The member posting on the RUGreens supporting buying 
>military
>stock DOES NOT represent the "Greens" view on any level.
>
>        Secondly, if you read what I wrote carefully and spent less time
>plugging your "causes," you would realize that I understood Joseph's
>point-of-view, I believe he means well when he says he wants the US economy
>to bounce back. As for individual persons making a profit off the stocks,
>that is their own business. Feel free to take it up with him.
>
>       Third, I am NOT the NJ Campus "Chief." I am tentatively the North
>Jersey coordinator until such time it can be ratified by the Rutgers-New
>Brunswick, Montclair State and Princeton Universities chapters. This 
>position
>was given to me by Remo Stockamp (ms), who was the NJ Campus Green
>Coordinator until two months ago.
>
>        Fourth, here are the links for anyone to see on the Green Party of 
>the
>United States, and the National Campus Greens chapters. The GPNJ position
>shall be available soon, as it was formed at the convention yesterday.
>
><A HREF="www.gpus.org">www.gpus.org</A>
>
><A 
>HREF="http://www.campusgreens.org/sept11.html">http://www.campusgreens.org/sept11.html</A>
>
><A HREF="www.gpnj.org">www.gpnj.org</A>
>
>If anyone has any questions, please feel free to e-mail me. If you have
>nothing but insluts, please send just one e-mail.
>
>Finally, I apologize for this, but it must be said.  I have never met 
>Joesph
>Smith personally. I have seen him kicked off at one listerver, the People's
>Organization for Progress (based out of Patterson, led by Larry Hamm). He 
>has
>made it a mission to bash the Green Party and its members any chance he 
>gets.
>His does not want our help unlesss we sumbit to his demands, and follow his
>way. He used incomplete postings as scare tactics. Hoping to gain support 
>for
>himself. He is a scared liberal and a sad little person. Mr. Smith, the 
>Green
>Party will not go away. We will now stay in the 1% of the vote where it is
>safe. We are going after the Republican and (Heaven Forbid) the Democratic
>National Committees. We shall try to win local offices and change the
>enviornment, pay, and living conditions for all people for the better. But 
>we
>shall do it with action, and not just by rhetoic.
>
>And don't call me a slimy fuck please. It hurts my feelings.
>
>                    ~Ray Higbee
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2125
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-24 17:24:18
Subject:Re: fake playaz
Message:

i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out into the 
open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting e-mails like 
this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee reply all 
and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and who is he 
calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?

joe smith

>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>To: can_bush@...
>Subject: fake playaz
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
>
get your own game, agents.

_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2126
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-24 18:27:14
Subject:Re: fake playaz
Message:

Joe- Just some thoughts.  While the judgement behind this statement of Paul 
is questionable, I would ask you if it is any different from the absurd 
campaign you & yours led attacking U&S edit Board members as "sabateurs" 
while succeeding only in stalling out the ongoing progress of the paper...

No need to respond.  Just to consider.  Matt



----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, 
njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@..., 
onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
Subject: Re: fake playaz
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400

i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out into the 
open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting e-mails like 
this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee reply all 
and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and who is he 
calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?

joe smith

>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>To: can_bush@...
>Subject: fake playaz
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
>
get your own game, agents.
<< message3.txt >>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2127
Sender:"Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-24 18:57:10
Subject:Re: fake playaz
Message:

I would like to know what this is about.
I already sd that sectarianism is a form of opportunism. While I am all for 
drawing clear lines of demacation, so that there is no mistake about 
political lines, at the same time this isn't a "game" that a group or anyone 
else controls. We are talking (I hope) about orgainzing the people to seize 
power (for their own benifit, not the benifit of their wanna be leaders).
I think that explainaition is required but the language of "game" implying 
control is betrays alot. Calling others aents even if you disagree strongly 
doesn't help it only plays into the divide and conquer strategy of 
Imperialsim.


>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, 
>njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@..., 
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: fake playaz
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400
>
>i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out into 
>the open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting e-mails 
>like this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee 
>reply all and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and 
>who is he calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
>
>joe smith
>
>>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>>To: can_bush@...
>>Subject: fake playaz
>>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
>>
>get your own game, agents.
><< message3.txt >>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2128
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-24 19:22:49
Subject:Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: fake playaz
Message:

1. agents assume that one is on the payroll or hired to infiltrate

2. you & yours did sabatoge U&S's line for the entire year of the peoples 
campaign leading up to the election. you dropped beat bush! and embraced 
waron curtis and bright. the entire time you denounced any revolutionary 
positions and activities during the campaign only to achieve putting bright 
onto an already anti-democratic housing authority. the results of you & 
yours actions have only attacked the nbpc's tactic's of community control.

ponder how you like, reality is frank bright is on the housing authority 
because people like keith joseph received about 2000 votes as a registered 
republican.

if you can see no difference in my position & paul's just go to the next 
housing authority meeting or ask yourself why U&S was not put out in a year 
during which the U&S edit board was more organized w/republicans than 
revolutionaries.

joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: can_bush@..., shorepaulie@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, njfo@egroups.com, keithjoseph99@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, amirib@..., 
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Re: fake playaz
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:27:14
>
>Joe- Just some thoughts.  While the judgement behind this statement of Paul
>is questionable, I would ask you if it is any different from the absurd
>campaign you & yours led attacking U&S edit Board members as "sabateurs"
>while succeeding only in stalling out the ongoing progress of the paper...
>
>No need to respond.  Just to consider.  Matt
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com,
>njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: fake playaz
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400
>
>i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out into 
>the
>open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting e-mails like
>this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee reply all
>and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and who is he
>calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
>
>joe smith
>
> >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
> >To: can_bush@...
> >Subject: fake playaz
> >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
> >
>get your own game, agents.
><< message3.txt >>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2129
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-24 20:05:39
Subject:Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: fake playaz
Message:

i didn't even pick up on this in my first reading...

matt, how are you going to blame me and mine for stalling the production of 
the paper when you where actively organizing against the positions amiri put 
forward for it? i was the one that called for the meeting to begin 
developing a new issue of the paper, which you also have a problem with 
because you are not open with amiri about who and what you had been actually 
representing during the campaign. no fault of mine.

for you to argue that me & mine are wrong to call you and yours saboteurs 
means you must explain where was the U&S position of the 2000 election and 
where was the paper? the only way you are going to call me & mine upsurd is 
to explain... otherwise you should focus on accepting our position and 
reconciling your relationship with the NB community, namely those of public 
housing along with those that were dissed by the coalition against police 
brutality while your boy waron curtis co-opted the group for years.

joe

>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: can_bush@..., shorepaulie@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, njfo@egroups.com, keithjoseph99@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, amirib@..., 
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: [coalitionforjustice] Re: fake playaz
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:27:14
>
>Joe- Just some thoughts.  While the judgement behind this statement of Paul
>is questionable, I would ask you if it is any different from the absurd
>campaign you & yours led attacking U&S edit Board members as "sabateurs"
>while succeeding only in stalling out the ongoing progress of the paper...
>
>No need to respond.  Just to consider.  Matt
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com,
>njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: fake playaz
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400
>
>i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out into 
>the
>open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting e-mails like
>this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee reply all
>and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and who is he
>calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
>
>joe smith
>
> >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
> >To: can_bush@...
> >Subject: fake playaz
> >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
> >
>get your own game, agents.
><< message3.txt >>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2130
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-25 12:26:36
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
Message:

who stalls?

you sat on that paper for the whole bush election year while you were 
chillin w/ republicans.

&we still get out more u&s' than yall.

now then


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: can_bush@..., shorepaulie@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, njfo@egroups.com, 
>keithjoseph99@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@..., 
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:27:14
>
>Joe- Just some thoughts.  While the judgement behind this statement of Paul
>is questionable, I would ask you if it is any different from the absurd
>campaign you & yours led attacking U&S edit Board members as "sabateurs"
>while succeeding only in stalling out the ongoing progress of the paper...
>
>No need to respond.  Just to consider.  Matt
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com,
>njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: fake playaz
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400
>
>i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out into 
>the
>open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting e-mails like
>this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee reply all
>and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and who is he
>calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
>
>joe smith
>
> >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
> >To: can_bush@...
> >Subject: fake playaz
> >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
> >
>get your own game, agents.
><< message3.txt >>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2131
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-25 12:29:58
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
Message:

unite the anti-war movement!

unity&criticism against imperialism.


>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: can_bush@..., shorepaulie@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@..., 
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:57:10 +0000
>
>I would like to know what this is about.
>I already sd that sectarianism is a form of opportunism. While I am all for
>drawing clear lines of demacation, so that there is no mistake about
>political lines, at the same time this isn't a "game" that a group or 
>anyone
>else controls. We are talking (I hope) about orgainzing the people to seize
>power (for their own benifit, not the benifit of their wanna be leaders).
>I think that explainaition is required but the language of "game" implying
>control is betrays alot. Calling others aents even if you disagree strongly
>doesn't help it only plays into the divide and conquer strategy of
>Imperialsim.
>
>
> >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> >To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com,
> >njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
> >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
> >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
> >Subject: Re: fake playaz
> >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400
> >
> >i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out into
> >the open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting 
>e-mails
> >like this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee
> >reply all and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game 
>and
> >who is he calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
> >
> >joe smith
> >
> >>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
> >>To: can_bush@...
> >>Subject: fake playaz
> >>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
> >>
> >get your own game, agents.
> ><< message3.txt >>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2132
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-25 12:37:04
Subject:Fwd: [NB_CC_TF] Fwd: [GreenMovement] In the words of Martin Luther King
Message:



>From: "JOSEPH MOSLEY" <joemosley1@...>
>Reply-To: NB_CC_TF@yahoogroups.com
>To: gpnj-council@yahoogroups.com
>CC: gpnj-members@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [NB_CC_TF] Fwd: [GreenMovement] In the words of Martin Luther King
>Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:11:36 -0400
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Jackwraith" <dystopia@...>
> >Reply-To: GreenMovement@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >Subject: [GreenMovement] In the words of Martin Luther King
> >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 12:06:12 -0700
> >
> >In The Words of Martin Luther King
> >
> >
> >After visiting "Ground Zero" this past Sunday I found guidance in the 
>words
> >of Martin Luther King, delivered at Riverside Church, New York City, 
>April
> >4th, 1967.
> >
> >"A time comes when silence is betrayal. Even when pressed by the demands 
>of
> >inner truth, men do not easily assume the task of opposing their
> >government�
> >s policy, especially in time of war. Nor does the human spirit move 
>without
> >great difficulty against all the apathy of conformist thought within 
>one�s
> >own bosom and in the surrounding world. Moreover, when the issues at hand
> >seem as perplexing as they often do in the case of dreadful conflict, we
> >are
> >always on the verge of being mesmerized by uncertainty. But we must move
> >on."
> >
> >"Some of us who have already begun to break the silence of the night have
> >found that the calling to speak is often a vocation of agony, but we must
> >speak. We must speak with all the humility that is appropriate to our
> >limited vision, but we must speak. For we are deeply in need of a new way
> >beyond the darkness that seems so close around us."
> >
> >"We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for the victims 
>of
> >our nation, for those it calls "enemy," for no document from human hands
> >can
> >make these humans any less our brothers. � I think of them, too, because 
>it
> >is clear to me that there will be no meaningful solution until some 
>attempt
> >is made to know them and hear their broken cries."
> >
> >"I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world
> >revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. 
>We
> >must rapidly begin the shift from a thing-oriented society to a
> >person-oriented society. When machines and computers, profit motives and
> >property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant
> >triplets of racism, extreme materialism, and militarism are incapable of
> >being conquered."
> >
> >"A true revolution of values will lay hand on the world order and say of
> >war, "This way of settling differences is not just." A nation that
> >continues
> >year and year to spend more money on military defense that on programs of
> >social uplift is approaching spiritual death."
> >
> >"America, the richest and most powerful nation in the world, can well 
>lead
> >the way in this revolution of values. There is nothing except a tragic
> >death
> >wish to prevent us from reordering our priorities over the pursuit of 
>war."
> >
> >"This call for a worldwide fellowship that lifts neighborly concern 
>beyond
> >one�s tribe, race, class, and nation is in reality a call for an
> >all-embracing and unconditional love for all mankind. We can no longer
> >afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation.
> >The oceans of history are made turbulent by the ever-rising tides of 
>hate.
> >History is cluttered with the wreckage of nations and individuals that
> >pursed this self-defeating path of hate."
> >
> >"We still have a choice today: nonviolent coexistence or violent
> >coannihilation. We must move past indecision to action. If we do not act,
> >we
> >shall surely be dragged down the long, dark, and shameful corridors of 
>time
> >reserved for those who posses power without compassion, might without
> >morality, and strength without sight."
> >
> >"Now let us begin. Now let us rededicate ourselves in the long and 
>bitter,
> >but beautiful struggle for a new world. If we will but make the right
> >choice, we will be able to speed up the day, all over America and all 
>over
> >the world, when justice will roll down like waters, and righteousness 
>like
> >a
> >mighty stream."
> >
> >May our country, on the brink of war, take to heart the final refrain of
> >"America, the Beautiful": "America! America! God mend thine ev�ry flaw,
> >Confirm thy soul in self-control, Thy liberty in law."
> >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>NB_CC_TF-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2133
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-25 14:17:00
Subject:unite all efforts against imperialist war!
Message:

I suspect Paul is concerned that Central Jersey Coalition for Peace has 
announced a Speak-Out Against US War & Terrorism! for 8pm Wed., 26 Sept., at 
Brower Commons.  Meanwhile his Anti-War Coalition has announced a separate 
vigil & march for 6pm on the same day, to begin at Douglass College and 
march to Brower Commons.  We endorse his group's efforts and call for unity!

Let me assure Paul and whoever else that our event was planned and announced 
prior to any knowledge of his group's existence.  We held a speak-out at the 
George St. fountain on Sunday, 16 Sept.  We co-organized (w/ RU students for 
Peace) a speak-out at Brower Commons the following Monday, 17 Sept., and 
held an open meeting at the New Brunswick Library that Wednesday, 19 Sept. 
to initiate an Anti-War organization (which adopted the name Central Jersey 
Coalition for Peace).  At that meeting we planned the Speak-out for this 
Wednesday, and a Teach-in for next Wednesday, 3 Oct. (to keep with a weekly 
Wed. action).

We have also announced a Speak-out at the George St. Fountain for 6pm 
Sunday, 30 Sept.  And and open meeting at the NB Library 6pm Thursday, 
October 11.  All our events are open and all are welcome to participate.

Apparently, a parallel motion is developing for another Anti-War grouping, 
in which Paul is involved.  We encourage all to unite these parallel 
groupings into one anti-war effort.  There is no lack of work to be done, & 
the more against war, & the more united, the better!

Remember in the US war on Iraq, that 2 anti-war groups were unable to unite 
and the peace movement was severely weakened.  There were 2 separate marches 
on Washington a week apart!

We have expressed to TDegloma of the Anti-War Coalition our concern to unite 
in every way possible, to support all efforts against US War, and to resolve 
our disagreements openly and above board.  We see nothing that must prevent 
us from co-operating in our opposition to US aggression and war.

unite, don't split!
the people vs. imperialism!

cliff smith
central jersey coalition for peace
732.214.8828



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2134
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-25 14:20:32
Subject:nj education still separate & unequal
Message:






                Supreme Court again
                grapples with claims of
                inadequate school funding

                By RALPH SIEGEL
                The Associated Press
                9/25/01 10:21 AM

                TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- The state Supreme Court heard
                arguments Tuesday on whether the two-decade legal
                struggle over school funding will be dragged into a new
                millennium.

                Lawyers for the Newark-based Education Law Center,
                which brought the original lawsuits in the Abbott v. Burke
                case, filed papers with the court charging yet again that
                state officials have done too little.

                This time the alleged failure was in making sure
                preschoolers in the poorest districts have adequate
                classroom space and programs. But the legal quarrel can
                range into all sorts of other issues like delays in school
                construction.

                Education Law Center attorney David Sciarra said he would
                ask the court to appoint a special "master," likely a judge,
                to take a direct hand in monitoring state compliance with
                the court's earlier mandates.

                On the opposite end, the justices could conclude that
                Sciarra must file an entirely new lawsuit, which would force
                him to start all over again at the county level and would
                take years to work its way back up.

                In certain respects, the issue before the justices Tuesday
                was whether they want to plunge back into what was an
                18-year legal mess.

                The court made its first ruling in the Abbott string of
                opinions in 1990 on a case filed in 1981. It has handed
                down several more rulings over the past decade, striking
                down various laws as unconstitutional because they did
                not create "parity" in funding between poor districts and 
the
                state's wealthier communities.

                In 1998, Supreme Court justices said the state must
                provide complete preschool programs for 3- and 4-year-olds
                in 30 of the state' poorest district -- the so-called Abbott
                districts -- as identified in the first case and by 
legislation.

                About 28,000 3- and 4-year-olds are registered in full-time
                preschool in the 30 districts this fall, up from about 
24,000
                in full-time and part-time programs last year, state 
officials
                said. Sciarra claims space was needed for 55,000.

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This 
material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2135
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-25 14:26:41
Subject:wed verdict in cincy cop murder of black man
Message:

Judge to announce verdict
                Wednesday in trial of
                Cincinnati officer who fatally
                shot suspect

                By JOHN NOLAN
                The Associated Press
                9/25/01 12:32 PM

                CINCINNATI (AP) -- A white police officer who fatally shot
                an unarmed black man, sparking riots, was just doing his
                job when he pursued the man down a dark alley, a defense
                lawyer said.

                Defense and prosecution lawyers summed up their cases
                Monday in the trial of officer Stephen Roach, who faced
                charges of negligent homicide and obstructing official
                business in the April 7 shooting of Timothy Thomas.

                Roach, 27, could get up to nine months in jail if convicted.
                He had pleaded innocent.

                Judge Ralph E. Winkler, who heard the trial without a jury,
                said he will announce his verdict Wednesday.

                Thomas' killing prompted the city's worst racial unrest
                since the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination in
                1968. A citywide curfew was ordered, dozens of people
                were injured and more than 800 were arrested.

                Police plan to have additional officers on duty when the
                verdict is announced Wednesday but do not expect a
                large-scale disturbance.

                "We are well aware of what may or may not happen
                tomorrow," department spokesman Lt. Kurt Byrd said. "We
                expect that we may see small pockets of unrest, but
                nothing like we saw in April."

                Roach's trial is believed to be the first of a Cincinnati 
police
                officer for the shooting death of a suspect in the
                department's history dating to the late 1800s, Byrd said.

                Thomas, 19, had run from three other police officers,
                scaled fences and was in a neighborhood plagued by guns,
                drug deals and violence, defense lawyer Merlyn
                Shiverdecker said.

                Roach "was doing what he was trained to do -- chase and
                catch the bad guy," Shiverdecker said.

                Prosecutor Stephen McIntosh countered that Roach was
                wrong to run through the alley with his finger on the 
trigger
                of his revolver. He also said the officer fired rather than
                using other means of stopping the suspect.

                Other officers who had been chasing Thomas testified they
                had not drawn their weapons or perceived a need to do so,
                McIntosh said.

                McIntosh also said Roach told homicide investigators
                differing versions of what happened on the day of the
                shooting and three days later "to salvage his job."

                Shiverdecker said police homicide investigators failed to
                take into account how the darkness would have affected
                Roach's perception, or how the instinctive fear he
                experienced when he felt threatened could have affected
                what he recalled when he spoke to police about the
                shooting.

                Shiverdecker said the officer's fear caused him to
                involuntarily fire his weapon. He also said the dim light in
                the alley affected the officer's sight.

                The officer initially told investigators that Thomas made a
                threatening move toward him, and he thought Thomas had
                a gun. Roach later told investigators that Thomas stepped
                around a corner in the alley and startled him, and that the
                officer accidentally shot him.

                Police later found that Thomas -- who was wanted on 14
                charges, including traffic offenses and fleeing from police 
to
                avoid arrest -- had no weapon.

                Roach declined to comment after Monday's arguments. He
                did not testify in the trial.

                After the trial is over, he faces departmental 
administrative
                proceedings under which he could face penalties including
                firing, Byrd said.

                Roach's shooting of Thomas also is to undergo separate,
                nonpolice reviews by Cincinnati's Office of Municipal
                Investigation and by the city's Citizens Police Review
                Panel.

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This 
material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2136
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-25 14:23:17
Subject:nj atty genl now openly encourages profiling
Message:

N.J. Atty General says police
                may return to racial profiling

                The Associated Press
                9/25/01 10:46 AM

                NEWARK, N.J. (AP) -- State Attorney General John
                Farmer Jr. said New Jerseyans who look Middle Eastern
                may be stopped and questioned by state police as a result
                of the Sept. 11 attacks.

                Farmer made his comments Monday in Woodbridge at a
                gathering of Sikhs, who have complained about increased
                harassment from authorities. The group called Farmer's
                comments a return to racial profiling, something the state
                police have been trying to eliminate from its ranks in the
                past few years.

                "A lot of people who are innocent are going to be
                questioned, are going to be looked at with suspicion,"
                Farmer told The Star-Ledger for Tuesday editions.
                "Everyone has to take a step back and let law enforcement
                do what it needs to do to investigate this case."

                Moard Abou-Sabe, president of the Arab-American League
                of Voters of New Jersey, said such action by authorities is
                illegal under the U.S. Constitution.

                However, Farmer said a 1999 consent decree between the
                state and the U.S. Justice Department about racial profiling
                says that stopping motorists based on their ethnicity is OK
                when it relates to a specific information about a suspect.

                State police have been told by the FBI to be on the lookout
                for about 200 Middle Eastern persons that may have
                information about the attacks, which left thousands
                missing or dead.

                "I would ask the (Middle Eastern) community to
                understand what's going on," Farmer said. "My message
                to law enforcement officers is that they need to be very
                respectful in dealing with these communities."

                The state American Civil Liberties Union believes the state
                could find a better way to help the FBI's investigation.

                "Perceived Middle Eastern appearance should not be a
                basis for suspicion," said Deborah Jacobs, the group's
                executive director. "To just allow for people to be accosted
                or interrogated based on the way they look seems to be
                against the very spirit of basic freedom."

                Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This 
material may
                     not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2137
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-25 22:02:06
Subject:Re: [njfo] unite all efforts against imperialist war!
Message:

Cliff & all- While a campaign event for Ras Baraka will keep me from 
attending these marches, I would like to second the position to unite these 
efforts.  There's no "get your own game".  The Imperialist war machine 
requires the people to unite against it, and it ain't a game.  It's now or, 
it would seem, never.  Send a message that I can read Thursday morning in 
the Star Liar! Strength in Numbers...

Unity & Struggle, Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, 
onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
Subject: [njfo] unite all efforts against imperialist war!
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:17:00 +0000

I suspect Paul is concerned that Central Jersey Coalition for Peace has
announced a Speak-Out Against US War & Terrorism! for 8pm Wed., 26 Sept., at
Brower Commons.  Meanwhile his Anti-War Coalition has announced a separate
vigil & march for 6pm on the same day, to begin at Douglass College and
march to Brower Commons.  We endorse his group's efforts and call for unity!

Let me assure Paul and whoever else that our event was planned and announced
prior to any knowledge of his group's existence.  We held a speak-out at the
George St. fountain on Sunday, 16 Sept.  We co-organized (w/ RU students for
Peace) a speak-out at Brower Commons the following Monday, 17 Sept., and
held an open meeting at the New Brunswick Library that Wednesday, 19 Sept.
to initiate an Anti-War organization (which adopted the name Central Jersey
Coalition for Peace).  At that meeting we planned the Speak-out for this
Wednesday, and a Teach-in for next Wednesday, 3 Oct. (to keep with a weekly
Wed. action).

We have also announced a Speak-out at the George St. Fountain for 6pm
Sunday, 30 Sept.  And and open meeting at the NB Library 6pm Thursday,
October 11.  All our events are open and all are welcome to participate.

Apparently, a parallel motion is developing for another Anti-War grouping,
in which Paul is involved.  We encourage all to unite these parallel
groupings into one anti-war effort.  There is no lack of work to be done, &
the more against war, & the more united, the better!

Remember in the US war on Iraq, that 2 anti-war groups were unable to unite
and the peace movement was severely weakened.  There were 2 separate marches
on Washington a week apart!

We have expressed to TDegloma of the Anti-War Coalition our concern to unite
in every way possible, to support all efforts against US War, and to resolve
our disagreements openly and above board.  We see nothing that must prevent
us from co-operating in our opposition to US aggression and war.

unite, don't split!
the people vs. imperialism!

cliff smith
central jersey coalition for peace
732.214.8828



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2139
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 00:20:37
Subject:Re: fake playaz
Message:

either way paul owes an explaination and U&S edit board was more organized 
with republicans than with revolutionaries while bush2 bumrushed the popular 
vote.

maybe no one has to explain where U&S the paper and the position was during 
the 2000 election. maybe matt can just compare me to paul and then blur 
everything over. maybe keith can quote some passage and tell me that reality 
only exists in my mind some more - with no reference to the base of the 
discussion, which is first about me receiving an email from paul calling 
myself and others agents and second receiving an email from matt telling 
myself that it is the same thing as me pointing out that U&S had been 
sabatoged.

keith definitely addressed my email from paul - but why not the one from 
matt?

joe


>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
>Date: Thu, 10 Jan 1980 07:09:10 -0500
>
>I think that it was Kruschev whoannounced "we will crush you". By this he 
>meant that
>the Soviet Union will produce more stuff than the capitalists. His mistake 
>was not
>that he was wrong about that; his mistake was that he believed that 
>building socialism
>was essentially the same as building capitalism. That is socialism achieved 
>through
>production.
>This is the essence of your line "we get out more than you" (which is a 
>fact only in
>your mind); it was the same point made earlier, "I register more voters".
>You don't get out as many papers as the NY Times and you don't register as 
>many voters
>as the republicans or the democrats.
>So if your measure of correctness is based on numbers of papers handed out 
>and voters
>registered than the bourgeois are better revolutionaries than you.
>
>This line has been talked about quite a bit recently. It is economism. That 
>is the
>belief that production equals transformation. The line that the Soviet 
>Union would
>"build socialism" through industrialization. Leninism developed in the 
>struggle
>against economism, if you are interested you might read Class Struggles in 
>the USSR
>volume 1 by Charlie Bettleheim. (they got it at Alexander Libary). He does 
>a very
>thorough exposure of the line taht you are advocating.
>I hope that you can find time to read it, it would be nice to base our 
>practice and
>discussion on revolutionary theory rather than empricist opinions. If we 
>are truly
>interested in self-criticism we might try to consider the effect of 
>"american common
>sense" on our thinking. The essence of which is american pragmatism. Which 
>is the
>theory that is practiced widely in New Brunswick.
>Keith
>
>
>
>cliff smith wrote:
>
> > who stalls?
> >
> > you sat on that paper for the whole bush election year while you were
> > chillin w/ republicans.
> >
> > &we still get out more u&s' than yall.
> >
> > now then
> >
> > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: can_bush@..., shorepaulie@...,
> > >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, njfo@egroups.com,
> > >keithjoseph99@...
> > >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
> > >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
> > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
> > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:27:14
> > >
> > >Joe- Just some thoughts.  While the judgement behind this statement of 
>Paul
> > >is questionable, I would ask you if it is any different from the absurd
> > >campaign you & yours led attacking U&S edit Board members as 
>"sabateurs"
> > >while succeeding only in stalling out the ongoing progress of the 
>paper...
> > >
> > >No need to respond.  Just to consider.  Matt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----Original Message Follows----
> > >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> > >To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com,
> > >njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
> > >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
> > >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: fake playaz
> > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400
> > >
> > >i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out 
>into
> > >the
> > >open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting e-mails 
>like
> > >this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee reply 
>all
> > >and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and who is 
>he
> > >calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
> > >
> > >joe smith
> > >
> > > >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
> > > >To: can_bush@...
> > > >Subject: fake playaz
> > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
> > > >
> > >get your own game, agents.
> > ><< message3.txt >>
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2140
Sender:"Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 09:01:17
Subject:We bail out the airline industry -- not those laid off by it
Message:

posted to discussion.org

By eastbloc on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 06:10 am:

The airwaves and press have been all aflutter with news that should make the
CEOs of Continental and Boeing sleep soundly in their mansions : the
government will put out $15 billion to prop up the industry.

Of course, this all comes on the heels of announced layoffs of 40,000 or
more. While the press argues that a few of these companies have stock held
by employees, that is little consolation for those who are (or were) living
paycheck to paycheck.

Many of us don't realize this, but a great number of Americans rely on their
next paycheck for their rent, mortgage, food for their children, and so on.
They don't have any substantial savings, and being unemployed for a week,
not to mention a month, will lead them to the brink of bankruptcy and
foreclosure.

To evade criticism of yet another volley in the class war, the press will go
out of its way to justify to those of us unaffected by the crisis why the
corporations get bailed out while the workers get sent into the surplus
labor pool (read : the unemployment lines, the welfare lines, and/or the
streets.) But conscienscious Americans ought to at very least make a note --
our government represents that which keeps it in power, and that is not
democracy, it is capital.

Chris







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2141
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 09:28:54
Subject:SOS-Joe
Message:

Same old shit...gets tiring, is why.  You got reems of explanations over 
weeks of this debate, but you only want to live within your own conjured 
invention of recent history.  So don't let me burst your bubble.  Ok- once 
more for old times sake, SWORD was right about Frank, 1/2 wrong about 
Curtis, & totally wrong about U&S.  NJFO was split.  Minority faction fought 
for and salvaged U&S, Revo-Demo line & correlating relationship with Baraka. 
  Objectively, the main disruption of rebuilding U&S occured at the two 
meetings that SWORD attended & in the form of a couple gratuitous "F* You"'s 
to Amiri.  Like I said, same old shit- make your demands on others for 
self-critisicms and public prostration while not a hint of self-criticism 
from you & yours. This is the stale continuation of "F*you, Unite!"  Paul is 
wrong, it doesn't make you an "agent" just tough to work with because this 
is such a waste of time.  Anyhow, hope yor rally goes well, and that you 
manage to get it together with the "RED"s rally...Its important

Matt



----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 00:20:37 -0400

either way paul owes an explaination and U&S edit board was more organized
with republicans than with revolutionaries while bush2 bumrushed the popular
vote.

maybe no one has to explain where U&S the paper and the position was during
the 2000 election. maybe matt can just compare me to paul and then blur
everything over. maybe keith can quote some passage and tell me that reality
only exists in my mind some more - with no reference to the base of the
discussion, which is first about me receiving an email from paul calling
myself and others agents and second receiving an email from matt telling
myself that it is the same thing as me pointing out that U&S had been
sabatoged.

keith definitely addressed my email from paul - but why not the one from
matt?

joe


 >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
 >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 1980 07:09:10 -0500
 >
 >I think that it was Kruschev whoannounced "we will crush you". By this he
 >meant that
 >the Soviet Union will produce more stuff than the capitalists. His mistake
 >was not
 >that he was wrong about that; his mistake was that he believed that
 >building socialism
 >was essentially the same as building capitalism. That is socialism 
achieved
 >through
 >production.
 >This is the essence of your line "we get out more than you" (which is a
 >fact only in
 >your mind); it was the same point made earlier, "I register more voters".
 >You don't get out as many papers as the NY Times and you don't register as
 >many voters
 >as the republicans or the democrats.
 >So if your measure of correctness is based on numbers of papers handed out
 >and voters
 >registered than the bourgeois are better revolutionaries than you.
 >
 >This line has been talked about quite a bit recently. It is economism. 
That
 >is the
 >belief that production equals transformation. The line that the Soviet
 >Union would
 >"build socialism" through industrialization. Leninism developed in the
 >struggle
 >against economism, if you are interested you might read Class Struggles in
 >the USSR
 >volume 1 by Charlie Bettleheim. (they got it at Alexander Libary). He does
 >a very
 >thorough exposure of the line taht you are advocating.
 >I hope that you can find time to read it, it would be nice to base our
 >practice and
 >discussion on revolutionary theory rather than empricist opinions. If we
 >are truly
 >interested in self-criticism we might try to consider the effect of
 >"american common
 >sense" on our thinking. The essence of which is american pragmatism. Which
 >is the
 >theory that is practiced widely in New Brunswick.
 >Keith
 >
 >
 >
 >cliff smith wrote:
 >
 > > who stalls?
 > >
 > > you sat on that paper for the whole bush election year while you were
 > > chillin w/ republicans.
 > >
 > > &we still get out more u&s' than yall.
 > >
 > > now then
 > >
 > > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 > > >To: can_bush@..., shorepaulie@...,
 > > >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, njfo@egroups.com,
 > > >keithjoseph99@...
 > > >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
 > > >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
 > > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
 > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:27:14
 > > >
 > > >Joe- Just some thoughts.  While the judgement behind this statement of
 >Paul
 > > >is questionable, I would ask you if it is any different from the 
absurd
 > > >campaign you & yours led attacking U&S edit Board members as
 >"sabateurs"
 > > >while succeeding only in stalling out the ongoing progress of the
 >paper...
 > > >
 > > >No need to respond.  Just to consider.  Matt
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >----Original Message Follows----
 > > >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
 > > >To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com,
 > > >njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
 > > >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
 > > >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
 > > >Subject: Re: fake playaz
 > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400
 > > >
 > > >i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out
 >into
 > > >the
 > > >open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting e-mails
 >like
 > > >this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee 
reply
 >all
 > > >and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and who 
is
 >he
 > > >calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
 > > >
 > > >joe smith
 > > >
 > > > >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
 > > > >To: can_bush@...
 > > > >Subject: fake playaz
 > > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
 > > > >
 > > >get your own game, agents.
 > > ><< message3.txt >>
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >_________________________________________________________________
 > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 > > >
 > >
 > > _________________________________________________________________
 > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 > >
 > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 > >
 > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 > >
 > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2142
Sender:"Charlotte L. Kates" <ckates@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 09:35:03
Subject:Re: [nbpc] SOS-Joe
Message:

To clarify: 

The rally and march from Cooper Green to Brower beginning at 6 pm tonight
is organized by the Anti War Coalition, not RED. While RED was an integral
part of the founding, the steering committee and the coalition itself
represents 18 organizations. It's not a RED rally, it's a coalition
rally in which RED is a participant, and I wouldn't like to see it defined
by internal battles in the New Brunswick-centered Left.

-Charlotte








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2143
Sender:"Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 11:01:33
Subject:clarification
Message:

I shouldn't have used the word 'agent'.  It doesn't describe can_bush, 
Cliff, Joe or associates.  I was reacting to Cliff and Joe's organizing 
style.  But that's just my opinion.  I'm not working with them, so I really 
don't know what they're up to.  Please accept my apology.
Paul McGee


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>To: can_bush@..., shorepaulie@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, njfo@egroups.com, keithjoseph99@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@..., 
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: fake playaz
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:27:14
>
>Joe- Just some thoughts.  While the judgement behind this statement of Paul 
>is questionable, I would ask you if it is any different from the absurd 
>campaign you & yours led attacking U&S edit Board members as "sabateurs" 
>while succeeding only in stalling out the ongoing progress of the paper...
>
>No need to respond.  Just to consider.  Matt
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, 
>njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@..., 
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: fake playaz
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400
>
>i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out into 
>the open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting e-mails 
>like this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee 
>reply all and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and 
>who is he calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
>
>joe smith
>
>>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>>To: can_bush@...
>>Subject: fake playaz
>>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
>>
>get your own game, agents.
><< message3.txt >>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2144
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 12:11:44
Subject:Re:] SOS-Joe
Message:

matt wrote:
"NJFO was split.  Minority faction fought for and salvaged U&S, Revo-Demo 
line & correlating relationship with Baraka. Objectively, the main 
disruption of rebuilding U&S occured at the two meetings that SWORD attended 
& in the form of a couple gratuitous "F* You"'s to Amiri."

what does this mean? njfo was split? what does an njfo split have to do with 
the fact that members of the U&S edit board sabatoged the paper's production 
& political line during '00 election?

what couple of fuck you's to amiri are you refering too? and when and under 
what context did they arise from? because the only time i told amiri to fuck 
himself is well after 2 issues of the paper where circulating. definitely 
not gratuitous- but u still trying to pin on me something i have nothing to 
do with. i was neither a member of U&S edit staff or a member of njfo - you 
were.

Same old Shit because you fail to accept the fact that as a member of an 
edit board that calls for revolutionaries to unite, win the advanced to 
communism - you sabatoged this political line and its production. or else 
WHERE WAS IT? "njfo was split", what are you talking about?

matt, you really are full of shit with this arguement. keep up the lies 
distortion and most of all keep blaming me... after all i was only 1/2 right 
about waron curtis.

joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] SOS-Joe
>Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:28:54
>
>Same old shit...gets tiring, is why.  You got reems of explanations over
>weeks of this debate, but you only want to live within your own conjured
>invention of recent history.  So don't let me burst your bubble.  Ok- once
>more for old times sake, SWORD was right about Frank, 1/2 wrong about
>Curtis, & totally wrong about U&S.  NJFO was split.  Minority faction 
>fought
>for and salvaged U&S, Revo-Demo line & correlating relationship with 
>Baraka.
>   Objectively, the main disruption of rebuilding U&S occured at the two
>meetings that SWORD attended & in the form of a couple gratuitous "F* 
>You"'s
>to Amiri.  Like I said, same old shit- make your demands on others for
>self-critisicms and public prostration while not a hint of self-criticism
>from you & yours. This is the stale continuation of "F*you, Unite!"  Paul 
>is
>wrong, it doesn't make you an "agent" just tough to work with because this
>is such a waste of time.  Anyhow, hope yor rally goes well, and that you
>manage to get it together with the "RED"s rally...Its important
>
>Matt
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
>Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 00:20:37 -0400
>
>either way paul owes an explaination and U&S edit board was more organized
>with republicans than with revolutionaries while bush2 bumrushed the 
>popular
>vote.
>
>maybe no one has to explain where U&S the paper and the position was during
>the 2000 election. maybe matt can just compare me to paul and then blur
>everything over. maybe keith can quote some passage and tell me that 
>reality
>only exists in my mind some more - with no reference to the base of the
>discussion, which is first about me receiving an email from paul calling
>myself and others agents and second receiving an email from matt telling
>myself that it is the same thing as me pointing out that U&S had been
>sabatoged.
>
>keith definitely addressed my email from paul - but why not the one from
>matt?
>
>joe
>
>
>  >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
>  >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 1980 07:09:10 -0500
>  >
>  >I think that it was Kruschev whoannounced "we will crush you". By this 
>he
>  >meant that
>  >the Soviet Union will produce more stuff than the capitalists. His 
>mistake
>  >was not
>  >that he was wrong about that; his mistake was that he believed that
>  >building socialism
>  >was essentially the same as building capitalism. That is socialism
>achieved
>  >through
>  >production.
>  >This is the essence of your line "we get out more than you" (which is a
>  >fact only in
>  >your mind); it was the same point made earlier, "I register more 
>voters".
>  >You don't get out as many papers as the NY Times and you don't register 
>as
>  >many voters
>  >as the republicans or the democrats.
>  >So if your measure of correctness is based on numbers of papers handed 
>out
>  >and voters
>  >registered than the bourgeois are better revolutionaries than you.
>  >
>  >This line has been talked about quite a bit recently. It is economism.
>That
>  >is the
>  >belief that production equals transformation. The line that the Soviet
>  >Union would
>  >"build socialism" through industrialization. Leninism developed in the
>  >struggle
>  >against economism, if you are interested you might read Class Struggles 
>in
>  >the USSR
>  >volume 1 by Charlie Bettleheim. (they got it at Alexander Libary). He 
>does
>  >a very
>  >thorough exposure of the line taht you are advocating.
>  >I hope that you can find time to read it, it would be nice to base our
>  >practice and
>  >discussion on revolutionary theory rather than empricist opinions. If we
>  >are truly
>  >interested in self-criticism we might try to consider the effect of
>  >"american common
>  >sense" on our thinking. The essence of which is american pragmatism. 
>Which
>  >is the
>  >theory that is practiced widely in New Brunswick.
>  >Keith
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >cliff smith wrote:
>  >
>  > > who stalls?
>  > >
>  > > you sat on that paper for the whole bush election year while you were
>  > > chillin w/ republicans.
>  > >
>  > > &we still get out more u&s' than yall.
>  > >
>  > > now then
>  > >
>  > > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  > > >To: can_bush@..., shorepaulie@...,
>  > > >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, njfo@egroups.com,
>  > > >keithjoseph99@...
>  > > >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
>  > > >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>  > > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
>  > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:27:14
>  > > >
>  > > >Joe- Just some thoughts.  While the judgement behind this statement 
>of
>  >Paul
>  > > >is questionable, I would ask you if it is any different from the
>absurd
>  > > >campaign you & yours led attacking U&S edit Board members as
>  >"sabateurs"
>  > > >while succeeding only in stalling out the ongoing progress of the
>  >paper...
>  > > >
>  > > >No need to respond.  Just to consider.  Matt
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >----Original Message Follows----
>  > > >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>  > > >To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com,
>  > > >njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
>  > > >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
>  > > >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>  > > >Subject: Re: fake playaz
>  > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400
>  > > >
>  > > >i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out
>  >into
>  > > >the
>  > > >open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting 
>e-mails
>  >like
>  > > >this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee
>reply
>  >all
>  > > >and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and who
>is
>  >he
>  > > >calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
>  > > >
>  > > >joe smith
>  > > >
>  > > > >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>  > > > >To: can_bush@...
>  > > > >Subject: fake playaz
>  > > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
>  > > > >
>  > > >get your own game, agents.
>  > > ><< message3.txt >>
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >_________________________________________________________________
>  > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>  >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > > _________________________________________________________________
>  > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>  >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  > >
>  > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>  > >
>  > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>  >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>  > >
>  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
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>
>
>
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2145
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 12:13:27
Subject:Re: [nbpc] SOS-Joe
Message:

true


>From: "Charlotte L. Kates" <ckates@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] SOS-Joe
>Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:35:03 -0400 (EDT)
>
>
>To clarify:
>
>The rally and march from Cooper Green to Brower beginning at 6 pm tonight
>is organized by the Anti War Coalition, not RED. While RED was an integral
>part of the founding, the steering committee and the coalition itself
>represents 18 organizations. It's not a RED rally, it's a coalition
>rally in which RED is a participant, and I wouldn't like to see it defined
>by internal battles in the New Brunswick-centered Left.
>
>-Charlotte
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2146
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 12:17:51
Subject:Re: clarification
Message:

anti-imperialist war is anti-imperialist war. doesn't matter when you clock 
in, just that the job gets done. you can stick your apology.

joe smith


>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>To: vivaohio@..., can_bush@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, njfo@egroups.com, keithjoseph99@...
>CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@..., 
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: clarification
>Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:01:33 +0000
>
>I shouldn't have used the word 'agent'.  It doesn't describe can_bush, 
>Cliff, Joe or associates.  I was reacting to Cliff and Joe's organizing 
>style.  But that's just my opinion.  I'm not working with them, so I really 
>don't know what they're up to.  Please accept my apology.
>Paul McGee
>
>
>>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>>To: can_bush@..., shorepaulie@..., 
>>nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, njfo@egroups.com, keithjoseph99@...
>>CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@..., 
>>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>>Subject: Re: fake playaz
>>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:27:14
>>
>>Joe- Just some thoughts.  While the judgement behind this statement of 
>>Paul is questionable, I would ask you if it is any different from the 
>>absurd campaign you & yours led attacking U&S edit Board members as 
>>"sabateurs" while succeeding only in stalling out the ongoing progress of 
>>the paper...
>>
>>No need to respond.  Just to consider.  Matt
>>
>>
>>
>>----Original Message Follows----
>>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>>To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, 
>>njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
>>CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@..., 
>>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>>Subject: Re: fake playaz
>>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400
>>
>>i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out into 
>>the open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting e-mails 
>>like this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee 
>>reply all and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and 
>>who is he calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
>>
>>joe smith
>>
>>>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>>>To: can_bush@...
>>>Subject: fake playaz
>>>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
>>>
>>get your own game, agents.
>><< message3.txt >>
>>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2147
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 12:26:12
Subject:Re:] SOS-Joe
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., the keyboard of "joseph smith" 
<can_bush@h...> let loose the following undiluted fountain of 
foolishness:

> what does this mean? njfo was split? what does an njfo split have 
to do with 
> the fact that members of the U&S edit board sabatoged the paper's 
production 
> & political line during '00 election?

Yeah, Joe.  What does it mean?  Why are you holding this debate on an 
egroup for New Brunswick progressives?  Please explain to me what's 
on the agenda for the NBHA meeting tonight and what your group is 
doing in preparation for attending and speaking at the meeting 
tonight.  Please explain to me what's on the agenda for the city 
council next week, and what SWORD's position is on the zoning 
amendment change relating to the bank building near city hall that 
the developers have recently purchased.

That's far more interesting to New Brunswick residents than your 
doctrinal squabble.

"All politics is local" - Tip O'Neill, former Speaker of the House.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2148
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 20:56:49
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] unite all efforts against imperialist war!
Message:

message:

x's 6pm rally: hungerfraud #2speaker, fabw's throughout.
they use our bullhorn &deny us speaking opportunity.

x/hfraud rally flyers over our rally flyers on campus boards.

u&s--invisible.

we invite u&s to set an example in leading a 'trend' toward principled 
anti-imperialist unity.



>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, 
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: [njfo] unite all efforts against imperialist war!
>Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 02:02:06
>
>Cliff & all- While a campaign event for Ras Baraka will keep me from
>attending these marches, I would like to second the position to unite these
>efforts.  There's no "get your own game".  The Imperialist war machine
>requires the people to unite against it, and it ain't a game.  It's now or,
>it would seem, never.  Send a message that I can read Thursday morning in
>the Star Liar! Strength in Numbers...
>
>Unity & Struggle, Matt
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com, nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com,
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>Subject: [njfo] unite all efforts against imperialist war!
>Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:17:00 +0000
>
>I suspect Paul is concerned that Central Jersey Coalition for Peace has
>announced a Speak-Out Against US War & Terrorism! for 8pm Wed., 26 Sept., 
>at
>Brower Commons.  Meanwhile his Anti-War Coalition has announced a separate
>vigil & march for 6pm on the same day, to begin at Douglass College and
>march to Brower Commons.  We endorse his group's efforts and call for 
>unity!
>
>Let me assure Paul and whoever else that our event was planned and 
>announced
>prior to any knowledge of his group's existence.  We held a speak-out at 
>the
>George St. fountain on Sunday, 16 Sept.  We co-organized (w/ RU students 
>for
>Peace) a speak-out at Brower Commons the following Monday, 17 Sept., and
>held an open meeting at the New Brunswick Library that Wednesday, 19 Sept.
>to initiate an Anti-War organization (which adopted the name Central Jersey
>Coalition for Peace).  At that meeting we planned the Speak-out for this
>Wednesday, and a Teach-in for next Wednesday, 3 Oct. (to keep with a weekly
>Wed. action).
>
>We have also announced a Speak-out at the George St. Fountain for 6pm
>Sunday, 30 Sept.  And and open meeting at the NB Library 6pm Thursday,
>October 11.  All our events are open and all are welcome to participate.
>
>Apparently, a parallel motion is developing for another Anti-War grouping,
>in which Paul is involved.  We encourage all to unite these parallel
>groupings into one anti-war effort.  There is no lack of work to be done, &
>the more against war, & the more united, the better!
>
>Remember in the US war on Iraq, that 2 anti-war groups were unable to unite
>and the peace movement was severely weakened.  There were 2 separate 
>marches
>on Washington a week apart!
>
>We have expressed to TDegloma of the Anti-War Coalition our concern to 
>unite
>in every way possible, to support all efforts against US War, and to 
>resolve
>our disagreements openly and above board.  We see nothing that must prevent
>us from co-operating in our opposition to US aggression and war.
>
>unite, don't split!
>the people vs. imperialism!
>
>cliff smith
>central jersey coalition for peace
>732.214.8828
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@...
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: njfo-unsubscribe@...
>
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>
>
>
>
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>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2149
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 21:00:13
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
Message:

"our 'doctranaires' are lazybones"
--lenin


>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
>Date: Thu, 10 Jan 1980 07:09:10 -0500
>
>I think that it was Kruschev whoannounced "we will crush you". By this he 
>meant that
>the Soviet Union will produce more stuff than the capitalists. His mistake 
>was not
>that he was wrong about that; his mistake was that he believed that 
>building socialism
>was essentially the same as building capitalism. That is socialism achieved 
>through
>production.
>This is the essence of your line "we get out more than you" (which is a 
>fact only in
>your mind); it was the same point made earlier, "I register more voters".
>You don't get out as many papers as the NY Times and you don't register as 
>many voters
>as the republicans or the democrats.
>So if your measure of correctness is based on numbers of papers handed out 
>and voters
>registered than the bourgeois are better revolutionaries than you.
>
>This line has been talked about quite a bit recently. It is economism. That 
>is the
>belief that production equals transformation. The line that the Soviet 
>Union would
>"build socialism" through industrialization. Leninism developed in the 
>struggle
>against economism, if you are interested you might read Class Struggles in 
>the USSR
>volume 1 by Charlie Bettleheim. (they got it at Alexander Libary). He does 
>a very
>thorough exposure of the line taht you are advocating.
>I hope that you can find time to read it, it would be nice to base our 
>practice and
>discussion on revolutionary theory rather than empricist opinions. If we 
>are truly
>interested in self-criticism we might try to consider the effect of 
>"american common
>sense" on our thinking. The essence of which is american pragmatism. Which 
>is the
>theory that is practiced widely in New Brunswick.
>Keith
>
>
>
>cliff smith wrote:
>
> > who stalls?
> >
> > you sat on that paper for the whole bush election year while you were
> > chillin w/ republicans.
> >
> > &we still get out more u&s' than yall.
> >
> > now then
> >
> > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: can_bush@..., shorepaulie@...,
> > >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, njfo@egroups.com,
> > >keithjoseph99@...
> > >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
> > >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
> > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
> > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:27:14
> > >
> > >Joe- Just some thoughts.  While the judgement behind this statement of 
>Paul
> > >is questionable, I would ask you if it is any different from the absurd
> > >campaign you & yours led attacking U&S edit Board members as 
>"sabateurs"
> > >while succeeding only in stalling out the ongoing progress of the 
>paper...
> > >
> > >No need to respond.  Just to consider.  Matt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----Original Message Follows----
> > >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> > >To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com,
> > >njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
> > >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
> > >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: fake playaz
> > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400
> > >
> > >i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out 
>into
> > >the
> > >open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting e-mails 
>like
> > >this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee reply 
>all
> > >and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and who is 
>he
> > >calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
> > >
> > >joe smith
> > >
> > > >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
> > > >To: can_bush@...
> > > >Subject: fake playaz
> > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
> > > >
> > >get your own game, agents.
> > ><< message3.txt >>
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
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>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2150
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 21:05:05
Subject:Re: [nbpc] We bail out the airline industry -- not those laid off by it
Message:

keep on, chris


>From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>CC: "njfo list" <njfo@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [nbpc] We bail out the airline industry -- not those laid off by 
>it
>Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:01:17 -0400
>
>posted to discussion.org
>
>By eastbloc on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 06:10 am:
>
>The airwaves and press have been all aflutter with news that should make 
>the
>CEOs of Continental and Boeing sleep soundly in their mansions : the
>government will put out $15 billion to prop up the industry.
>
>Of course, this all comes on the heels of announced layoffs of 40,000 or
>more. While the press argues that a few of these companies have stock held
>by employees, that is little consolation for those who are (or were) living
>paycheck to paycheck.
>
>Many of us don't realize this, but a great number of Americans rely on 
>their
>next paycheck for their rent, mortgage, food for their children, and so on.
>They don't have any substantial savings, and being unemployed for a week,
>not to mention a month, will lead them to the brink of bankruptcy and
>foreclosure.
>
>To evade criticism of yet another volley in the class war, the press will 
>go
>out of its way to justify to those of us unaffected by the crisis why the
>corporations get bailed out while the workers get sent into the surplus
>labor pool (read : the unemployment lines, the welfare lines, and/or the
>streets.) But conscienscious Americans ought to at very least make a note 
>--
>our government represents that which keeps it in power, and that is not
>democracy, it is capital.
>
>Chris
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2151
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 21:11:14
Subject:Re: [nbpc] SOS-Joe
Message:

if we was '1/2 wrong' about curtis, that's 1/2 more right than you.
but no- he's outed & we called it.

?--where was u&s during the entire bush election year while you was chillin 
w/ republicans?  burst my bubble.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] SOS-Joe
>Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:28:54
>
>Same old shit...gets tiring, is why.  You got reems of explanations over
>weeks of this debate, but you only want to live within your own conjured
>invention of recent history.  So don't let me burst your bubble.  Ok- once
>more for old times sake, SWORD was right about Frank, 1/2 wrong about
>Curtis, & totally wrong about U&S.  NJFO was split.  Minority faction 
>fought
>for and salvaged U&S, Revo-Demo line & correlating relationship with 
>Baraka.
>   Objectively, the main disruption of rebuilding U&S occured at the two
>meetings that SWORD attended & in the form of a couple gratuitous "F* 
>You"'s
>to Amiri.  Like I said, same old shit- make your demands on others for
>self-critisicms and public prostration while not a hint of self-criticism
>from you & yours. This is the stale continuation of "F*you, Unite!"  Paul 
>is
>wrong, it doesn't make you an "agent" just tough to work with because this
>is such a waste of time.  Anyhow, hope yor rally goes well, and that you
>manage to get it together with the "RED"s rally...Its important
>
>Matt
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
>Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 00:20:37 -0400
>
>either way paul owes an explaination and U&S edit board was more organized
>with republicans than with revolutionaries while bush2 bumrushed the 
>popular
>vote.
>
>maybe no one has to explain where U&S the paper and the position was during
>the 2000 election. maybe matt can just compare me to paul and then blur
>everything over. maybe keith can quote some passage and tell me that 
>reality
>only exists in my mind some more - with no reference to the base of the
>discussion, which is first about me receiving an email from paul calling
>myself and others agents and second receiving an email from matt telling
>myself that it is the same thing as me pointing out that U&S had been
>sabatoged.
>
>keith definitely addressed my email from paul - but why not the one from
>matt?
>
>joe
>
>
>  >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
>  >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 1980 07:09:10 -0500
>  >
>  >I think that it was Kruschev whoannounced "we will crush you". By this 
>he
>  >meant that
>  >the Soviet Union will produce more stuff than the capitalists. His 
>mistake
>  >was not
>  >that he was wrong about that; his mistake was that he believed that
>  >building socialism
>  >was essentially the same as building capitalism. That is socialism
>achieved
>  >through
>  >production.
>  >This is the essence of your line "we get out more than you" (which is a
>  >fact only in
>  >your mind); it was the same point made earlier, "I register more 
>voters".
>  >You don't get out as many papers as the NY Times and you don't register 
>as
>  >many voters
>  >as the republicans or the democrats.
>  >So if your measure of correctness is based on numbers of papers handed 
>out
>  >and voters
>  >registered than the bourgeois are better revolutionaries than you.
>  >
>  >This line has been talked about quite a bit recently. It is economism.
>That
>  >is the
>  >belief that production equals transformation. The line that the Soviet
>  >Union would
>  >"build socialism" through industrialization. Leninism developed in the
>  >struggle
>  >against economism, if you are interested you might read Class Struggles 
>in
>  >the USSR
>  >volume 1 by Charlie Bettleheim. (they got it at Alexander Libary). He 
>does
>  >a very
>  >thorough exposure of the line taht you are advocating.
>  >I hope that you can find time to read it, it would be nice to base our
>  >practice and
>  >discussion on revolutionary theory rather than empricist opinions. If we
>  >are truly
>  >interested in self-criticism we might try to consider the effect of
>  >"american common
>  >sense" on our thinking. The essence of which is american pragmatism. 
>Which
>  >is the
>  >theory that is practiced widely in New Brunswick.
>  >Keith
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >cliff smith wrote:
>  >
>  > > who stalls?
>  > >
>  > > you sat on that paper for the whole bush election year while you were
>  > > chillin w/ republicans.
>  > >
>  > > &we still get out more u&s' than yall.
>  > >
>  > > now then
>  > >
>  > > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  > > >To: can_bush@..., shorepaulie@...,
>  > > >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, njfo@egroups.com,
>  > > >keithjoseph99@...
>  > > >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
>  > > >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>  > > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
>  > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:27:14
>  > > >
>  > > >Joe- Just some thoughts.  While the judgement behind this statement 
>of
>  >Paul
>  > > >is questionable, I would ask you if it is any different from the
>absurd
>  > > >campaign you & yours led attacking U&S edit Board members as
>  >"sabateurs"
>  > > >while succeeding only in stalling out the ongoing progress of the
>  >paper...
>  > > >
>  > > >No need to respond.  Just to consider.  Matt
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >----Original Message Follows----
>  > > >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>  > > >To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com,
>  > > >njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
>  > > >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
>  > > >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
>  > > >Subject: Re: fake playaz
>  > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400
>  > > >
>  > > >i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out
>  >into
>  > > >the
>  > > >open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting 
>e-mails
>  >like
>  > > >this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee
>reply
>  >all
>  > > >and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and who
>is
>  >he
>  > > >calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
>  > > >
>  > > >joe smith
>  > > >
>  > > > >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>  > > > >To: can_bush@...
>  > > > >Subject: fake playaz
>  > > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
>  > > > >
>  > > >get your own game, agents.
>  > > ><< message3.txt >>
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >_________________________________________________________________
>  > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>  >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > > _________________________________________________________________
>  > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
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>  > >
>  > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>  > >
>  > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>  >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>  > >
>  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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>
>
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2152
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 21:18:34
Subject:unite!
Message:

we salute yr successful rally & continue our call for unity toward further 
anti-imperialist success.

speak-out against us war & terrorism!
6pm, sunday, george st. fountain



>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] SOS-Joe
>Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 12:13:27 -0400
>
>true
>
>
> >From: "Charlotte L. Kates" <ckates@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [nbpc] SOS-Joe
> >Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:35:03 -0400 (EDT)
> >
> >
> >To clarify:
> >
> >The rally and march from Cooper Green to Brower beginning at 6 pm tonight
> >is organized by the Anti War Coalition, not RED. While RED was an 
>integral
> >part of the founding, the steering committee and the coalition itself
> >represents 18 organizations. It's not a RED rally, it's a coalition
> >rally in which RED is a participant, and I wouldn't like to see it 
>defined
> >by internal battles in the New Brunswick-centered Left.
> >
> >-Charlotte
> >
> >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2153
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 22:39:33
Subject:marshall&chinchilla look to overturn convictions:
Message:

Prosecutor fights new trial for New
                     Brunswick officers in brothel case

                     09/26/01

                     BY DORE CARROLL
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

                     New and contrary claims of a key witness in the case 
against two New
                     Brunswick police officers convicted of running a 
brothel are malicious and
                     unbelievable, an assistant Middlesex County prosecutor 
said in court
                     papers filed yesterday.

                     In arguing that officers James Marshall and Marco 
Chinchilla do not
                     deserve a new trial, Assistant Prosecutor William Lamb 
attacked the
                     credibility of the state's witness who linked the pair 
to a bordello during
                     the trial and has since changed his story.

                     Lamb said the witness, Robert Rogers, only recanted his 
courtroom
                     testimony in May after prosecutors rejected his plea 
for help in getting
                     released from the Middlesex County jail.

                     Rogers had been arrested for assault in South 
Plainfield after hitting his
                     girlfriend in the head with an ashtray. The girlfriend, 
Katherine Saddler,
                     was the first person to tip authorities off to Marshall 
and Chinchilla's
                     involvement in the Jersey Avenue bordello known as 
Studio 121, and she
                     also testified at their trial.

                     Rogers now claims that Assistant Middlesex County 
Prosecutor Lawrence
                     Welle and investigator Virgil Angelini coached him on 
how to testify,
                     pointed out photographs of the officers, and helped him 
identify a third
                     man, Luis Posadas, who also was convicted of operating 
the house of
                     prostitution.

                     Rogers, an admitted drug abuser who is serving time in 
state prison for a
                     criminal conviction in Union County, also said Welle 
drove him past a city
                     bodega and told him to identify it as the place 
Marshall sent him to buy
                     condoms for the bordello.

                     Marshall and Chinchilla, both 16-year veterans of the 
New Brunswick
                     Police Department, were convicted in October and 
sentenced to four and
                     three years in prison, respectively. They remain free 
while their convictions
                     are being appealed.

                     Their defense attorneys have asked for a new trial 
based on the jailhouse
                     statement that Rogers gave to his attorney, Timothy 
Howes of Raritan, in
                     June.

                     Marshall's attorney, Alan Zegas of Chatham, said 
Rogers' statement is
                     credible because he had nothing to gain by recanting 
his testimony.

                     "Because he has no motivation to lie, it makes his 
recantation more
                     trustworthy," said Zegas, adding that by refuting his 
own sworn testimony,
                     Rogers subjects himself to charges of perjury.

                     But Lamb, who took over the prosecution because Welle 
is the subject of
                     Rogers' misconduct allegations, said Rogers' statement 
"injured the
                     professional reputation of the men who brought the 
accused to justice.
                     The jury's verdict did much to strip away the facade of 
innocence
                     constructed by the defense."

                     Lamb also cited evidence separate from Rogers' 
testimony that linked the
                     pair to the brothel, including an index card on which a 
New Brunswick
                     police detective wrote the pager numbers of the men 
whom Saddler,
                     calling in a tip, said were in charge of the brothel. 
The numbers turned
                     out to belong to Marshall and Chinchilla.

                     Zegas and Chinchilla's attorney, Barry Albin of 
Woodbridge, have issued
                     subpoenas to obtain personnel records from Welle's past 
employers, the
                     Ocean County Prosecutor's Office and the state Attorney 
General's
                     Office.

                     The prosecutor has attempted to block those subpoenas, 
and Superior
                     Court Judge Barnett Hoffman, who presides in New 
Brunswick, will hear
                     the matter next month.

                     Rogers' statement was made public just as Marshall was 
poised to stand
                     trial on a second set of charges accusing him of 
selling narcotics officers'
                     work schedules to drug dealers and profiting from their 
sales.

                     Dore Carroll covers the Middlesex County Courthouse. 
She can be
                     reached at dcarroll@... or at (732) 
249-5670.

                          Subscriptions & Contacts | Archives | Personals | 
Obituaries

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2154
Sender:cliffsmith69@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 22:44:51
Subject:ESPN.com: War or not, Afghanistan will play cricket
Message:

You have received this ESPN.com mail from:

cliff smith
cliffsmith69@...

I thought you might find this story interesting.

War or not, Afghanistan will play cricket
http://espn.go.com/moresports/news/2001/0926/1255799.html






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2157
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-26 23:14:07
Subject:SOS-Cliff
Message:

Cliff's Myth-

1/2 wrong because while being 1/2 right about his party affiliation you 
missed the principle issue- which was to "save the patient, kill the 
disease."  The rest is history- attacking a working class dude publically as 
a fascistic imperialist, I mean really...you're lucky I give you only 1/2 
credit for being wrong.  The man was listening to Amiri, reading DuBois w/ 
us, with the Coalition for 4 years....anyway, this is same of shit too.

Rest on U&S answered over njfo egroup at the request of nbpc list members.



----Original Message Follows----
From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] SOS-Joe
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 01:11:14 +0000

if we was '1/2 wrong' about curtis, that's 1/2 more right than you.
but no- he's outed & we called it.

?--where was u&s during the entire bush election year while you was chillin
w/ republicans?  burst my bubble.


 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: [nbpc] SOS-Joe
 >Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:28:54
 >
 >Same old shit...gets tiring, is why.  You got reems of explanations over
 >weeks of this debate, but you only want to live within your own conjured
 >invention of recent history.  So don't let me burst your bubble.  Ok- once
 >more for old times sake, SWORD was right about Frank, 1/2 wrong about
 >Curtis, & totally wrong about U&S.  NJFO was split.  Minority faction
 >fought
 >for and salvaged U&S, Revo-Demo line & correlating relationship with
 >Baraka.
 >   Objectively, the main disruption of rebuilding U&S occured at the two
 >meetings that SWORD attended & in the form of a couple gratuitous "F*
 >You"'s
 >to Amiri.  Like I said, same old shit- make your demands on others for
 >self-critisicms and public prostration while not a hint of self-criticism
 >from you & yours. This is the stale continuation of "F*you, Unite!"  Paul
 >is
 >wrong, it doesn't make you an "agent" just tough to work with because this
 >is such a waste of time.  Anyhow, hope yor rally goes well, and that you
 >manage to get it together with the "RED"s rally...Its important
 >
 >Matt
 >
 >
 >
 >----Original Message Follows----
 >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
 >Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 00:20:37 -0400
 >
 >either way paul owes an explaination and U&S edit board was more organized
 >with republicans than with revolutionaries while bush2 bumrushed the
 >popular
 >vote.
 >
 >maybe no one has to explain where U&S the paper and the position was 
during
 >the 2000 election. maybe matt can just compare me to paul and then blur
 >everything over. maybe keith can quote some passage and tell me that
 >reality
 >only exists in my mind some more - with no reference to the base of the
 >discussion, which is first about me receiving an email from paul calling
 >myself and others agents and second receiving an email from matt telling
 >myself that it is the same thing as me pointing out that U&S had been
 >sabatoged.
 >
 >keith definitely addressed my email from paul - but why not the one from
 >matt?
 >
 >joe
 >
 >
 >  >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
 >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
 >  >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 1980 07:09:10 -0500
 >  >
 >  >I think that it was Kruschev whoannounced "we will crush you". By this
 >he
 >  >meant that
 >  >the Soviet Union will produce more stuff than the capitalists. His
 >mistake
 >  >was not
 >  >that he was wrong about that; his mistake was that he believed that
 >  >building socialism
 >  >was essentially the same as building capitalism. That is socialism
 >achieved
 >  >through
 >  >production.
 >  >This is the essence of your line "we get out more than you" (which is a
 >  >fact only in
 >  >your mind); it was the same point made earlier, "I register more
 >voters".
 >  >You don't get out as many papers as the NY Times and you don't register
 >as
 >  >many voters
 >  >as the republicans or the democrats.
 >  >So if your measure of correctness is based on numbers of papers handed
 >out
 >  >and voters
 >  >registered than the bourgeois are better revolutionaries than you.
 >  >
 >  >This line has been talked about quite a bit recently. It is economism.
 >That
 >  >is the
 >  >belief that production equals transformation. The line that the Soviet
 >  >Union would
 >  >"build socialism" through industrialization. Leninism developed in the
 >  >struggle
 >  >against economism, if you are interested you might read Class Struggles
 >in
 >  >the USSR
 >  >volume 1 by Charlie Bettleheim. (they got it at Alexander Libary). He
 >does
 >  >a very
 >  >thorough exposure of the line taht you are advocating.
 >  >I hope that you can find time to read it, it would be nice to base our
 >  >practice and
 >  >discussion on revolutionary theory rather than empricist opinions. If 
we
 >  >are truly
 >  >interested in self-criticism we might try to consider the effect of
 >  >"american common
 >  >sense" on our thinking. The essence of which is american pragmatism.
 >Which
 >  >is the
 >  >theory that is practiced widely in New Brunswick.
 >  >Keith
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >cliff smith wrote:
 >  >
 >  > > who stalls?
 >  > >
 >  > > you sat on that paper for the whole bush election year while you 
were
 >  > > chillin w/ republicans.
 >  > >
 >  > > &we still get out more u&s' than yall.
 >  > >
 >  > > now then
 >  > >
 >  > > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >  > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  > > >To: can_bush@..., shorepaulie@...,
 >  > > >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, njfo@egroups.com,
 >  > > >keithjoseph99@...
 >  > > >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
 >  > > >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
 >  > > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
 >  > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:27:14
 >  > > >
 >  > > >Joe- Just some thoughts.  While the judgement behind this statement
 >of
 >  >Paul
 >  > > >is questionable, I would ask you if it is any different from the
 >absurd
 >  > > >campaign you & yours led attacking U&S edit Board members as
 >  >"sabateurs"
 >  > > >while succeeding only in stalling out the ongoing progress of the
 >  >paper...
 >  > > >
 >  > > >No need to respond.  Just to consider.  Matt
 >  > > >
 >  > > >
 >  > > >
 >  > > >----Original Message Follows----
 >  > > >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
 >  > > >To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com,
 >  > > >njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
 >  > > >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
 >  > > >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
 >  > > >Subject: Re: fake playaz
 >  > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400
 >  > > >
 >  > > >i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out
 >  >into
 >  > > >the
 >  > > >open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting
 >e-mails
 >  >like
 >  > > >this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee
 >reply
 >  >all
 >  > > >and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and 
who
 >is
 >  >he
 >  > > >calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
 >  > > >
 >  > > >joe smith
 >  > > >
 >  > > > >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
 >  > > > >To: can_bush@...
 >  > > > >Subject: fake playaz
 >  > > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
 >  > > > >
 >  > > >get your own game, agents.
 >  > > ><< message3.txt >>
 >  > > >
 >  > > >
 >  > > >_________________________________________________________________
 >  > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
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 >  > >
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 >  > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
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 >  > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >  > >
 >  > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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 >
 >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2158
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-27 00:32:26
Subject:Re: [njfo] Re: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
Message:

keith, you want me to thank paul because he's gunna stop callin' me an 
agent?


>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, "njfo@egroups.com" 
><njfo@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [njfo] Re: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
>Date: Thu, 10 Jan 1980 11:12:17 -0500
>
>I think that you are quoting Mao. You might want to read that essay. 
>Speaking of
>doctrinaires and lazybones.
>Mao is speaking of people who refuse to study and prefer repeating slogans 
>over and
>over.
>However,  Lenin did say without revolutionary theory there is no 
>revolutionary
>movemnt. Which is precisely the problem that we are facing. We have 
>productionists on
>our left and on our right, both sides refuse to deal in any serious way 
>with
>revolutionary theory. Both our rightists and our "leftists" refuse to 
>unite. on the
>left we get "stick your apology, but unite and "fuck you, unite" and on the 
>right "we
>have to distance ourselves".  It is making me sick. We are facing the rise 
>of fascism
>and world war 3. If you tell people "fuck you" (or compare them to people 
>who have
>just commited atrocities) expect them not to unite with you. If Mao and 
>Lenin haven't
>made that clear that's because they probably expected you to learn that in
>kindergarden.(By the way Lenin criticized anarchism but he also went out of 
>his way to
>organize with anarchists and to get them involved in the activity of the 
>Soviet
>Governement).
>    I suspect that your comment "lazybones" is meant to be a critique of 
>"U&S
>invisibility". I would have liked the paper to be there, in fact we went to 
>Brower
>commons, and were there alone. We have limited resources and limited time. 
>If you
>think that is lazy, who cares.We are not selling girl scout cookies for 
>merit badges.
>I certainly think that there is laziness on yr end, that is a refusal to 
>deal in any
>serious way with revolutionary  theory and facts, replacing it with opinion 
>and
>speculations. If you believe that Marxism is a scienec then you should 
>study it like
>one. The living soul of marxism is the concrete analysis of concret 
>conditions.
>
>I am not against working with h-fraud against the war, however it is 
>certainly
>suspicious that no one wants to "distance themselves" from him. His boycott
>elections/nader line may be more congenial. Nonetheless, ignoring lessons 
>from
>kindergarten doesn't help. A good organizer is not someone who hands out 
>the most
>papers or registers the most voters, a good organizer is someone who can 
>unite people
>around a revolutionary political line. You can sell a million cookies but 
>still your
>activity has done more to dis-unite (or at least give enough pre-texts to 
>make
>splitting easy) than uniting.
>
>If you are intersted in haveing a discussion around these things, I will be 
>happy to
>respond. If you are just going to keep on defending your activity without 
>any thought
>of self-criticism or serious study then I would prefer not to waste anymore 
>time.
>
>Keith
>
>cliff smith wrote:
>
> > "our 'doctranaires' are lazybones"
> > --lenin
> >
> > >From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
> > >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 1980 07:09:10 -0500
> > >
> > >I think that it was Kruschev whoannounced "we will crush you". By this 
>he
> > >meant that
> > >the Soviet Union will produce more stuff than the capitalists. His 
>mistake
> > >was not
> > >that he was wrong about that; his mistake was that he believed that
> > >building socialism
> > >was essentially the same as building capitalism. That is socialism 
>achieved
> > >through
> > >production.
> > >This is the essence of your line "we get out more than you" (which is a
> > >fact only in
> > >your mind); it was the same point made earlier, "I register more 
>voters".
> > >You don't get out as many papers as the NY Times and you don't register 
>as
> > >many voters
> > >as the republicans or the democrats.
> > >So if your measure of correctness is based on numbers of papers handed 
>out
> > >and voters
> > >registered than the bourgeois are better revolutionaries than you.
> > >
> > >This line has been talked about quite a bit recently. It is economism. 
>That
> > >is the
> > >belief that production equals transformation. The line that the Soviet
> > >Union would
> > >"build socialism" through industrialization. Leninism developed in the
> > >struggle
> > >against economism, if you are interested you might read Class Struggles 
>in
> > >the USSR
> > >volume 1 by Charlie Bettleheim. (they got it at Alexander Libary). He 
>does
> > >a very
> > >thorough exposure of the line taht you are advocating.
> > >I hope that you can find time to read it, it would be nice to base our
> > >practice and
> > >discussion on revolutionary theory rather than empricist opinions. If 
>we
> > >are truly
> > >interested in self-criticism we might try to consider the effect of
> > >"american common
> > >sense" on our thinking. The essence of which is american pragmatism. 
>Which
> > >is the
> > >theory that is practiced widely in New Brunswick.
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >cliff smith wrote:
> > >
> > > > who stalls?
> > > >
> > > > you sat on that paper for the whole bush election year while you 
>were
> > > > chillin w/ republicans.
> > > >
> > > > &we still get out more u&s' than yall.
> > > >
> > > > now then
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
> > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: can_bush@..., shorepaulie@...,
> > > > >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, njfo@egroups.com,
> > > > >keithjoseph99@...
> > > > >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
> > > > >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
> > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: fake playaz
> > > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:27:14
> > > > >
> > > > >Joe- Just some thoughts.  While the judgement behind this statement 
>of
> > >Paul
> > > > >is questionable, I would ask you if it is any different from the 
>absurd
> > > > >campaign you & yours led attacking U&S edit Board members as
> > >"sabateurs"
> > > > >while succeeding only in stalling out the ongoing progress of the
> > >paper...
> > > > >
> > > > >No need to respond.  Just to consider.  Matt
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >----Original Message Follows----
> > > > >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> > > > >To: shorepaulie@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com,
> > > > >njfo@egroups.com, vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
> > > > >CC: coalitionforjustice@egroups.com, amirib@...,
> > > > >onepeoplesproject@egroups.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: fake playaz
> > > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:18 -0400
> > > > >
> > > > >i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out
> > >into
> > > > >the
> > > > >open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting 
>e-mails
> > >like
> > > > >this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee 
>reply
> > >all
> > > > >and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and 
>who is
> > >he
> > > > >calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
> > > > >
> > > > >joe smith
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
> > > > > >To: can_bush@...
> > > > > >Subject: fake playaz
> > > > > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
> > > > > >
> > > > >get your own game, agents.
> > > > ><< message3.txt >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > >
> > > > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2159
Sender:TheDailyTargum@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-27 10:21:50
Subject:Groups march in protest of war at rally
Message:

Groups march in protest of war at rally
By: Melissa Hayes, Staff Writer 


09/26/01
--------------------------

Over 100 anti-war protesters assembled on Cooper Green on the Douglass campus to rally for peace last night. The group ended the rally at the Vietnam Memorial on the College Avenue campus after marching down George Street and receiving opposition from the New Brunswick Police Department.
After several speakers spoke at Cooper Green, the group took signs, with phrases such as, �Islam is not the enemy� and �War is also terrorism,� and marched from Cooper Green to George Street, chanting �No war, no racism.� 
A dispatcher came over a New Brunswick Police Department radio to alert officers that a rally was marching down George Street and police cars in the area should escort the crowd. Despite the dispatch, a police officer detained Tom DeGloma, a graduate student majoring in sociology, accusing him of being the leader of the rally. Although DeGloma is a member of the Anti-war Coalition and Radical Expansion of Democracy Collective, he was not the leader of the crowd, DeGloma said, adding that he told police the group was a coalition of many groups and that there was no one leader. They held him for about 15 minutes, and said they would send him charges in the mail.
The crowd marched down George Street, with NBPD escorts, and handed out information to people on the sidewalks who were watching the crowd march by. When the rally reached Church Street, a police officer blocked the road in an attempt to get the crowd off the street and onto the sidewalk as it approached the intersection at George Street and Rte. 27. 
The police blasted their sirens and drove closer to the sidewalk in an attempt to push the crowd off the road. At the intersection of Hamilton and George Streets, the police blocked the road, preventing the march from continuing down George Street. The protesters then turned onto Hamilton Street and Easton Avenue to the Vietnam Memorial screaming, �Who�s streets? Our streets!�
�It�s so inspiring to see so many people march together,� said Cecilia Joulain, a Douglass College sophomore and member of the Women�s Defense Coalition. �I don�t see what war can do but intensify the situation.�
DeGloma spoke about his detainment and about the march.  �We just made a statement.� 
Rizwan Chaudhry, a University College senior, questioned, �Why don�t they attack the racism throughout this nation?�
Christina Bass, a member of the RED Coalition and a University graduate, said, �If we bomb other nations, I�ll be afraid to walk down the street because of who�s going to retaliate.� She said people need to educate themselves to understand the current events and not �have blind faith in anything.�
Christian Stasse, a Rutgers College sophomore and a member of the Marine Corps, said he was �disgusted� by the rally. �I am willing to risk my life for the good of the country.� Stasse said that although he is now a reserve, he is on stand-by and is ready for war.
Peter Reuss, a College of Engineering senior, said he briefly attended the rally because he was curious about the protesters� reasons for opposing war after the attacks that occurred Sept. 11. He said their arguments make sense. 
--------------------------
Story Source: The Daily Targum








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2160
Sender:TheDailyTargum@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-27 10:28:15
Subject:Opinion was a waste of paper
Message:

Opinion was a waste of paper
By:  


09/27/01
--------------------------

The presence of absolutely radical letters and editorials in The Daily Targum is not in the least bit shocking. In fact, it is almost an everyday occurrence. What was surprising was when the Targum reached an all-time low in printing Cliff Smith�s letter to the editor (The Daily Targum, Sept. 24). Smith had the audacity to state that the �illegitimate Bush regime� had no proof that foreign madmen were responsible for the horrendous attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.  What was even more unbelievable was his implication that the CIA was behind the attack comparing it to when Hitler�s thugs burned the Reichstag before he became chancellor in 1933. 

It really is amusing to listen to completely self-righteous America-haters like Smith go on about the U.S. being a �fake democracy,� especially someone who is a member of some supposed Organization for Revolutionary Democracy who undoubtedly utilizes the first amendment (of this country which he despises) to his fullest advantage. Smith proved his lack of touch with even the smallest drop of common sense when he used the example of the two New Brunswick cops convicted of running a brothel as proof of government corruption and history repeating itself. This ridiculous non sequitur easily demonstrated Smith�s complete lack of any real knowledge of this country�s history or affairs, and a real disrespect for all of those who died and came to the aid of those in need in the days following the attack.

Smith himself is not alarming since any free-thinking, rational person can see his statements are ridiculous. However, the shame lies in the fact that the Targum chose to waste space in our school paper by printing such a foolish and unintelligent letter. 

Michael De Matos
LC  �
--------------------------
Story Source: The Daily Targum








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2161
Sender:"Rob Bertrand" <alarmguy96@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-27 15:58:07
Subject:Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Message:

Though this response is a bit late, this list of songs was not banned from 
the airwaves.  It was a grass-roots suggestion among the clear channel 
program directors.  I work in radio and I have been receiving TONS of info 
about this in the trades -- high controversy.  What started out as an effort 
to be more sensitive, on one person's part, quickly snowballed into 
absurdity.  There was no edict issued from the corporate office, though a 
suggestion did emanate from there.  List or no list, listen to your radio -- 
every station's playlist has changed.  Even at adult contemporary stations 
like mine -- people are just trying to be sensitive (though the whole notion 
is kind of silly).  Though I am not a supporter of Clear Channel's corporate 
stranglehold on radio in America, I did want to set the record straight for 
this listserve.  Thanks.

*rob bertrand*


From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 1980 10:21:11 -0500

Can we get the complete list of songs. We should resist this immediately, it 
is a good
issue to organize youth around and if we don't resist, Bush will put us on 
the fascism
fast track.

Matthew Smith wrote:

 > It's extrordinary that just two weeks ago, U&S was still debating with
 > Greens on whether Bush & Co. were real fascists...I wish we were wrong.
 > Oppose War! & Impeach Bush! -MS
 >
 >  > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/19/arts/music/19POPL.html
 >  >
 >  > September 19, 2001
 >  >
 >  > THE POP LIFE
 >  >
 >  > After the Horror, Radio Stations Pull Some Songs
 >  >
 >  > By NEIL STRAUSS
 >  >
 >  > Clear Channel Communications, the Texas-based company that owns about
 >  > 1,170 radio stations nationwide, has circulated a list of 150 songs
 >  > and asked its stations to avoid playing them because of the attacks
 >  > on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
 >  >
 >  > Some listed songs would be insensitive to play right now, such as the
 >  > Gap Band's "You Dropped a Bomb on Me" and Soundgarden's "Blow Up the
 >  > Outside World," but other choices, critics and musicians say, are
 >  > less explicable because they have little literal connection to the
 >  > tragedies.
 >  >
 >  > These include "Ticket to Ride" by the Beatles, "On Broadway" by the
 >  > Drifters and "Bennie and the Jets" by Elton John. Even odder, some
 >  > songs on the list are patriotic, like Neil Diamond's "America."
 >  > Others speak of universal optimism, like Louis Armstrong's "What a
 >  > Wonderful World," and others are emotional but hopeful songs that
 >  > could help people grieve, like "Imagine" by John Lennon, "Bridge Over
 >  > Troubled Water" by Simon and Garfunkel, "Peace Train" by Cat Stevens
 >  > and "A World Without Love" by Peter and Gordon.
 >  >
 >  > The move by Clear Channel, whose collective broadcasts reach more
 >  > than 110 million listeners in the nation weekly, was voluntary. Many
 >  > stations, including some in the New York area, said they were
 >  > disregarding the list, which was distributed internally.
 >  >
 >  > Another Peter and Gordon song, "I Go to Pieces," made the list. "I
 >  > suppose a song about someone going to pieces could be upsetting if
 >  > someone took it literally," said Peter Asher of Peter and Gordon
 >  > after learning that the group's two songs were on the list. "But 'I
 >  > can't live in a world without love' is a sentiment that's as true in
 >  > crisis as it is in normal times. It's a totally pro-love sentiment
 >  > and could only be helpful right now."
 >  >
 >  > A Clear Channel spokeswoman emphasized that the list was not a
 >  > mandate or order to radio programmers. In a statement, the company
 >  > said the list came not from the corporate offices but from "a
 >  > grass-roots effort that was apparently circulated among program
 >  > directors."
 >  >
 >  > Others in the Clear Channel network, speaking on condition of
 >  > anonymity, told a more complicated story. They said that a smaller
 >  > list of questionable songs was originally generated by the corporate
 >  > office, but an overzealous regional executive began contributing
 >  > suggestions and circulating the list via e-mail, where it continued
 >  > to grow.
 >  >
 >  > Either way, compliance with the list varied from station to station.
 >  > Angela Perelli, the vice president for operations at KYSR (98.7 FM)
 >  > in Los Angeles, said the station was not playing any of the listed
 >  > songs and had previously pulled a couple of the cited songs, "Jumper"
 >  > by Third Eye Blind and "Fly" by Sugar Ray, on its own accord. On the
 >  > other hand, Bob Buchmann, the program director and an on-air
 >  > personality at WAXQ-FM (104.3) in Manhattan, said that some songs on
 >  > the list ("American Pie" by Don McLean, "Imagine" and others)
 >  > happened to be among the most-played songs on his station. In the
 >  > meantime, the station decided not to broadcast some songs even though
 >  > they did not make the list, such as "When You're Falling," a
 >  > collaboration between Peter Gabriel and Afro-Celt Sound System that
 >  > had fictional lyrics too eerily similar to the truth.
 >  >
 >  > In 1942 the United States government issued a list of suggested
 >  > wartime practices for radio broadcasters. In the interest of national
 >  > safety, it advised radio programmers to ban weather forecasts, which
 >  > could help the enemy plan a bombing attack, and to avoid
 >  > man-on-the-street interviews and listener music requests in case the
 >  > interviewee or caller was a spy conveying a coded message to the
 >  > enemy in words or song.
 >  >
 >  > The new list is clearly different. Instead of promoting national
 >  > safety, its intended aim is to ensure national mental health, though
 >  > First Amendment supporters may point to it as the first shadowy
 >  > blacklist in what President Bush says will be a war against
 >  > terrorism. Radio programmers and producers outside of Clear Channel
 >  > said that they found the list bewildering. "There are obviously songs
 >  > on there that people could take the wrong way," said Michael Stark, a
 >  > freelance producer who works on "The Tom Joyner Morning Show" on the
 >  > ABC Radio Network. "But there are just as many that could be used to
 >  > heal and bring context to the tragedy. It seems from the list that
 >  > they don't want anything that comes close to making waves."
 >  >
 >  > In an odd anomaly on the list, a specific song or songs are mentioned
 >  > for each artist except for one: the politically minded rap-rock group
 >  > Rage Against the Machine. For this band, the list simply considers
 >  > "all Rage Against the Machine songs" questionable.
 >  >
 >  > Tom Morello, the guitarist in Rage Against the Machine, said via
 >  > e-mail that the band's music "is diametrically opposed to the kind of
 >  > horrible violence committed against innocent people" that occurred in
 >  > the Sept. 11 attacks, "which we condemn in the strongest possible
 >  > terms."
 >  >
 >  > "If our songs are 'questionable' in any way," he added, "it is that
 >  > they encourage people to question the kind of ignorance that breeds
 >  > intolerance � intolerance which can lead to censorship and the
 >  > extinguishing of our civil liberties, or at its extremes can lead to
 >  > the kind of violence we witnessed" last week.
 >  >
 >  > Nina Crowley, the executive director of the Massachusetts Music
 >  > Industry Coalition, a free-speech organization, worried that this was
 >  > just the beginning of suppression of artistic expression and that
 >  > politicians and corporations that have been trying to restrict access
 >  > to popular music may expand and perpetuate this list. "President Bush
 >  > said to be prepared for a long engagement," she said, "so this could
 >  > potentially continue and grow, and these songs could be removed from
 >  > the public ear for a long time. This list has eliminated songs about
 >  > flying and falling, but when something else happens, do we remove all
 >  > the songs about trains and whatever else?"
 >  >
 >  > ------- End of forwarded message -------
 >  >
 >  >      http://savewbai.tao.ca
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >      To unsubscribe from this list
 >  >      email lists@... with: unsubscribe savewbai
 >  >      or visit http://lists.tao.ca
 >
 > __________________________________________________
 > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
 > Donate cash, emergency relief information
 > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
 >
 > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 > FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
 >
 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >
 > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >
 > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >
 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2162
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-27 17:24:42
Subject:Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Message:

Thanks for the clarification- but correct me if I'm wrong: You're Clear 
Channel corporate strangleholders are the same Clear Channel grass-roots 
merely trying to be sensitive?  Sounds to me like censorship.  If you don't 
know, fascism has been historically an outgrowth of finance capital in a 
state of crisis, ergo---

-Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Rob Bertrand" <alarmguy96@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:58:07

Though this response is a bit late, this list of songs was not banned from
the airwaves.  It was a grass-roots suggestion among the clear channel
program directors.  I work in radio and I have been receiving TONS of info
about this in the trades -- high controversy.  What started out as an effort
to be more sensitive, on one person's part, quickly snowballed into
absurdity.  There was no edict issued from the corporate office, though a
suggestion did emanate from there.  List or no list, listen to your radio --
every station's playlist has changed.  Even at adult contemporary stations
like mine -- people are just trying to be sensitive (though the whole notion
is kind of silly).  Though I am not a supporter of Clear Channel's corporate
stranglehold on radio in America, I did want to set the record straight for
this listserve.  Thanks.

*rob bertrand*


From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 1980 10:21:11 -0500

Can we get the complete list of songs. We should resist this immediately, it
is a good
issue to organize youth around and if we don't resist, Bush will put us on
the fascism
fast track.

Matthew Smith wrote:

  > It's extrordinary that just two weeks ago, U&S was still debating with
  > Greens on whether Bush & Co. were real fascists...I wish we were wrong.
  > Oppose War! & Impeach Bush! -MS
  >
  >  > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/19/arts/music/19POPL.html
  >  >
  >  > September 19, 2001
  >  >
  >  > THE POP LIFE
  >  >
  >  > After the Horror, Radio Stations Pull Some Songs
  >  >
  >  > By NEIL STRAUSS
  >  >
  >  > Clear Channel Communications, the Texas-based company that owns about
  >  > 1,170 radio stations nationwide, has circulated a list of 150 songs
  >  > and asked its stations to avoid playing them because of the attacks
  >  > on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
  >  >
  >  > Some listed songs would be insensitive to play right now, such as the
  >  > Gap Band's "You Dropped a Bomb on Me" and Soundgarden's "Blow Up the
  >  > Outside World," but other choices, critics and musicians say, are
  >  > less explicable because they have little literal connection to the
  >  > tragedies.
  >  >
  >  > These include "Ticket to Ride" by the Beatles, "On Broadway" by the
  >  > Drifters and "Bennie and the Jets" by Elton John. Even odder, some
  >  > songs on the list are patriotic, like Neil Diamond's "America."
  >  > Others speak of universal optimism, like Louis Armstrong's "What a
  >  > Wonderful World," and others are emotional but hopeful songs that
  >  > could help people grieve, like "Imagine" by John Lennon, "Bridge Over
  >  > Troubled Water" by Simon and Garfunkel, "Peace Train" by Cat Stevens
  >  > and "A World Without Love" by Peter and Gordon.
  >  >
  >  > The move by Clear Channel, whose collective broadcasts reach more
  >  > than 110 million listeners in the nation weekly, was voluntary. Many
  >  > stations, including some in the New York area, said they were
  >  > disregarding the list, which was distributed internally.
  >  >
  >  > Another Peter and Gordon song, "I Go to Pieces," made the list. "I
  >  > suppose a song about someone going to pieces could be upsetting if
  >  > someone took it literally," said Peter Asher of Peter and Gordon
  >  > after learning that the group's two songs were on the list. "But 'I
  >  > can't live in a world without love' is a sentiment that's as true in
  >  > crisis as it is in normal times. It's a totally pro-love sentiment
  >  > and could only be helpful right now."
  >  >
  >  > A Clear Channel spokeswoman emphasized that the list was not a
  >  > mandate or order to radio programmers. In a statement, the company
  >  > said the list came not from the corporate offices but from "a
  >  > grass-roots effort that was apparently circulated among program
  >  > directors."
  >  >
  >  > Others in the Clear Channel network, speaking on condition of
  >  > anonymity, told a more complicated story. They said that a smaller
  >  > list of questionable songs was originally generated by the corporate
  >  > office, but an overzealous regional executive began contributing
  >  > suggestions and circulating the list via e-mail, where it continued
  >  > to grow.
  >  >
  >  > Either way, compliance with the list varied from station to station.
  >  > Angela Perelli, the vice president for operations at KYSR (98.7 FM)
  >  > in Los Angeles, said the station was not playing any of the listed
  >  > songs and had previously pulled a couple of the cited songs, "Jumper"
  >  > by Third Eye Blind and "Fly" by Sugar Ray, on its own accord. On the
  >  > other hand, Bob Buchmann, the program director and an on-air
  >  > personality at WAXQ-FM (104.3) in Manhattan, said that some songs on
  >  > the list ("American Pie" by Don McLean, "Imagine" and others)
  >  > happened to be among the most-played songs on his station. In the
  >  > meantime, the station decided not to broadcast some songs even though
  >  > they did not make the list, such as "When You're Falling," a
  >  > collaboration between Peter Gabriel and Afro-Celt Sound System that
  >  > had fictional lyrics too eerily similar to the truth.
  >  >
  >  > In 1942 the United States government issued a list of suggested
  >  > wartime practices for radio broadcasters. In the interest of national
  >  > safety, it advised radio programmers to ban weather forecasts, which
  >  > could help the enemy plan a bombing attack, and to avoid
  >  > man-on-the-street interviews and listener music requests in case the
  >  > interviewee or caller was a spy conveying a coded message to the
  >  > enemy in words or song.
  >  >
  >  > The new list is clearly different. Instead of promoting national
  >  > safety, its intended aim is to ensure national mental health, though
  >  > First Amendment supporters may point to it as the first shadowy
  >  > blacklist in what President Bush says will be a war against
  >  > terrorism. Radio programmers and producers outside of Clear Channel
  >  > said that they found the list bewildering. "There are obviously songs
  >  > on there that people could take the wrong way," said Michael Stark, a
  >  > freelance producer who works on "The Tom Joyner Morning Show" on the
  >  > ABC Radio Network. "But there are just as many that could be used to
  >  > heal and bring context to the tragedy. It seems from the list that
  >  > they don't want anything that comes close to making waves."
  >  >
  >  > In an odd anomaly on the list, a specific song or songs are mentioned
  >  > for each artist except for one: the politically minded rap-rock group
  >  > Rage Against the Machine. For this band, the list simply considers
  >  > "all Rage Against the Machine songs" questionable.
  >  >
  >  > Tom Morello, the guitarist in Rage Against the Machine, said via
  >  > e-mail that the band's music "is diametrically opposed to the kind of
  >  > horrible violence committed against innocent people" that occurred in
  >  > the Sept. 11 attacks, "which we condemn in the strongest possible
  >  > terms."
  >  >
  >  > "If our songs are 'questionable' in any way," he added, "it is that
  >  > they encourage people to question the kind of ignorance that breeds
  >  > intolerance � intolerance which can lead to censorship and the
  >  > extinguishing of our civil liberties, or at its extremes can lead to
  >  > the kind of violence we witnessed" last week.
  >  >
  >  > Nina Crowley, the executive director of the Massachusetts Music
  >  > Industry Coalition, a free-speech organization, worried that this was
  >  > just the beginning of suppression of artistic expression and that
  >  > politicians and corporations that have been trying to restrict access
  >  > to popular music may expand and perpetuate this list. "President Bush
  >  > said to be prepared for a long engagement," she said, "so this could
  >  > potentially continue and grow, and these songs could be removed from
  >  > the public ear for a long time. This list has eliminated songs about
  >  > flying and falling, but when something else happens, do we remove all
  >  > the songs about trains and whatever else?"
  >  >
  >  > ------- End of forwarded message -------
  >  >
  >  >      http://savewbai.tao.ca
  >  >
  >  >
  >  >      To unsubscribe from this list
  >  >      email lists@... with: unsubscribe savewbai
  >  >      or visit http://lists.tao.ca
  >
  > __________________________________________________
  > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
  > Donate cash, emergency relief information
  > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
  >
  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  > FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
  >
  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  >
  > _________________________________________________________________
  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
  >
  > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
  >
  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
  >
  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2165
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-27 23:10:49
Subject:Re:] SOS-Joe
Message:

Keith,

Your views about the role of national and international politics in a 
local electoral campaign are certainly principled, and are entitled 
to respect.  I have considered them carefully, but I don't fully 
share them.  Not agreeing with your views does not bespeak a failure 
to be self-critical, but just an honest disagreement with your 
conclusions.

I would ask you to consider this: the local Democratic Party 
candidates did not speak of national or international issues, but 
they won, i.e. they received more votes than we did.  Obviously, 
their failure to address national and international issues was not 
fatal to their electoral campaign, but you seem to say that it was 
fatal or at least injurious as to NBPC.  I must confess that I don't 
follow the causal chain there.

I believe that in most local elections, the same is true, i.e. that 
the victors do not talk about national and international issues, but 
local issues, i.e. how they will reduce local taxes, increase school 
test scores, promote responsible development, keep an eye on the 
police.  There are exceptions when the local populace has shown a pre-
existing interest in national and international events.  E.g., 
running in Edison, one might expect a candidate to weigh in on the 
U.S. role in the India-Pakistan conflict, or running in Union City, 
the local candidate might weigh in on the federal government's Cuba 
embargo policy.  

That is why it would be correct for a New Brunswick candidate to 
weigh in on Attorney General John Farmer, Peter Verniero, and on 
racial profiling by the state police, or on the use of Vieques, PR as 
a military training facility by the Navy and Marine Corps.  
Specifically, substantial portions of the local population have a pre-
existing interest in these national/international issues.  But that 
candidate had better know and spend most of her time talking about 
local issues, e.g. the hospital expansion, the abysmal board of ed., 
the NBHA's transfer of land worth $4 million to developers and 
nonpublic entities without sufficient contractual safeguards.

Besides staying on-message, it also helps to stay positive, without 
the regular use of angry rhetoric.  In sum, I don't deny the need to 
speak about issues beyond NB, but it ought to be targeted to win over 
the voters, i.e. the people who will decide whether our candidates or 
our issues win or lose, and persuade them to flip the lever for us or 
those we endorse on November 6, 2001 and November 5, 2002.

That said, where were NBPC's members and friends on Wednesday night?  
At an anti-war rally (expressing a view shared by a whopping ten 
percent of the electorate as measured by reputable polls).  Not at 
the Housing Authority, meeting with local residents, empathizing with 
them, speaking out on their behalf, getting press in the name of 
NBPC.  What are the plans of NBPC's members and friends to complete 
our petition-gathering on the Democracy and Accountability 
Ordinance?  How many NBPC members have gotten themselves appointed as 
poll watchers on election day (46 days away), so we can 'learn the 
ropes' in preparation for the 2002 run?  Where was the NBPC response 
to Borraie's acquistion of the bank on Bayard Street?  (See 
http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,449339,00.html  )

Therein lies the key problem.  The terrorist attacks and the response 
of government (including authorizing profiling, new surveillance 
powers, etc.) are important issues and are clearly much more than the 
activist fad of the week.  But we are ignoring our local base to 
respond to them.  If we are not self-critical about how we are  
ignoring -- even abandoning -- our local platform to that, we who 
have sworn loyalty to this group have made an even greater error.





--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> wrote:
> Flavio,
> I think taht the recent events have made it clear enough that 
while "all politics is
> local" that doesn't mean that international and national events and 
issues are not
> played out locally. All politics is local means that everything 
that is
> "international" is local to social groups who are taking part, it 
only becomes
> international if we here about it. I think that issues local to New 
Brunswick still
> need to be adresssed, at the same tiome the a\whole world is 
rapidly changing and we
> are certainly on teh precipe of disaster, fascism and world war. 
There is talk of
> appointing Guilainai to another term in NYC, Racial profiling is 
now being hailed as a
> correct response, vigilantism is running rampid. Now is not teh 
time to stick our
> heads in the sand. The exclusion of international and natioanl 
politics in teh
> People's campaign last effort is now proving to have been a serious 
dis-service to the
> people who wer were trying to organize, to people who we might have 
given soem of teh
> ideological tools to understand what is happening in the world. We 
didn't do that.
> That was a very serious mistake. It is too bad that the campaign 
could not realize
> this and was allowed to nearly dis-intergrate by the refusal to be 
self-critical.
> 
> Keith
> 
> Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> 
> > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., the keyboard of "joseph smith"
> > <can_bush@h...> let loose the following undiluted fountain of
> > foolishness:
> >
> > > what does this mean? njfo was split? what does an njfo split 
have
> > to do with
> > > the fact that members of the U&S edit board sabatoged the 
paper's
> > production
> > > & political line during '00 election?
> >
> > Yeah, Joe.  What does it mean?  Why are you holding this debate 
on an
> > egroup for New Brunswick progressives?  Please explain to me 
what's
> > on the agenda for the NBHA meeting tonight and what your group is
> > doing in preparation for attending and speaking at the meeting
> > tonight.  Please explain to me what's on the agenda for the city
> > council next week, and what SWORD's position is on the zoning
> > amendment change relating to the bank building near city hall that
> > the developers have recently purchased.
> >
> > That's far more interesting to New Brunswick residents than your
> > doctrinal squabble.
> >
> > "All politics is local" - Tip O'Neill, former Speaker of the 
House.
> >








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2166
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-28 14:35:30
Subject:RE: Flavio
Message:

Flavio- While you're correct that we must remain on point with local issues, 
NB trends do not exist in isolation.  The NBPC did a great diservice to the 
people of the city by not using the opportunities afforded by electoral 
campaign to rise greater awareness of how their problems relate to trends 
nationally and internationally.  To this end, I foward a recent response 
from Baraka to a similar position as yours...Try not to hold your nose when 
you read it.  (you too Kazlowski)
-Matt


In a message dated 9/19/01 5:40:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kalamu  writes:

We need to avoid leftwing rhetoric and revolutionary posturing, be
concrete and address actual issues on the public agenda and not make
premature anticipations or apocalyptic predictions. Internally we
need to try to see as far ahead as possible and try to go deep
analytically in order to be as prepared as possible, but externally
we need to speak to facts on the ground, avoid concepts or images
that are adamantly rejected by even peace loving people, and avoid
prematurely polarizing with potential allies. All this while still
drawing firm lines against the right.

Baraka's response,

It is this intellectually lazy "timidity" that has got us to the brink of 
war and economic disaster. Either we grasp and mobilize the people around 
Revolutionary Democratic Struggle, or we will be in Weimar 1933-1/2    Will 
this person read anyone.
Dimitroff, a good beginning.....Du Bois on American in the 50's   Fidel 's 
speech on Bushwacker declaration of Dead or Alive, With us or With the 
Terrorists" as a declaration of US imp intention to make the world a 
military dictatorship!??

Or read "The Weimar Casebook" U of Calif and he'll see himself, about to get 
wasted!
Amiri Baraka



----Original Message Follows----
From: Groovemeister007@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Re:] SOS-Joe
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 03:10:49 -0000

Keith,

Your views about the role of national and international politics in a
local electoral campaign are certainly principled, and are entitled
to respect.  I have considered them carefully, but I don't fully
share them.  Not agreeing with your views does not bespeak a failure
to be self-critical, but just an honest disagreement with your
conclusions.

I would ask you to consider this: the local Democratic Party
candidates did not speak of national or international issues, but
they won, i.e. they received more votes than we did.  Obviously,
their failure to address national and international issues was not
fatal to their electoral campaign, but you seem to say that it was
fatal or at least injurious as to NBPC.  I must confess that I don't
follow the causal chain there.

I believe that in most local elections, the same is true, i.e. that
the victors do not talk about national and international issues, but
local issues, i.e. how they will reduce local taxes, increase school
test scores, promote responsible development, keep an eye on the
police.  There are exceptions when the local populace has shown a pre-
existing interest in national and international events.  E.g.,
running in Edison, one might expect a candidate to weigh in on the
U.S. role in the India-Pakistan conflict, or running in Union City,
the local candidate might weigh in on the federal government's Cuba
embargo policy.

That is why it would be correct for a New Brunswick candidate to
weigh in on Attorney General John Farmer, Peter Verniero, and on
racial profiling by the state police, or on the use of Vieques, PR as
a military training facility by the Navy and Marine Corps.
Specifically, substantial portions of the local population have a pre-
existing interest in these national/international issues.  But that
candidate had better know and spend most of her time talking about
local issues, e.g. the hospital expansion, the abysmal board of ed.,
the NBHA's transfer of land worth $4 million to developers and
nonpublic entities without sufficient contractual safeguards.

Besides staying on-message, it also helps to stay positive, without
the regular use of angry rhetoric.  In sum, I don't deny the need to
speak about issues beyond NB, but it ought to be targeted to win over
the voters, i.e. the people who will decide whether our candidates or
our issues win or lose, and persuade them to flip the lever for us or
those we endorse on November 6, 2001 and November 5, 2002.

That said, where were NBPC's members and friends on Wednesday night?
At an anti-war rally (expressing a view shared by a whopping ten
percent of the electorate as measured by reputable polls).  Not at
the Housing Authority, meeting with local residents, empathizing with
them, speaking out on their behalf, getting press in the name of
NBPC.  What are the plans of NBPC's members and friends to complete
our petition-gathering on the Democracy and Accountability
Ordinance?  How many NBPC members have gotten themselves appointed as
poll watchers on election day (46 days away), so we can 'learn the
ropes' in preparation for the 2002 run?  Where was the NBPC response
to Borraie's acquistion of the bank on Bayard Street?  (See
http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,449339,00.html  )

Therein lies the key problem.  The terrorist attacks and the response
of government (including authorizing profiling, new surveillance
powers, etc.) are important issues and are clearly much more than the
activist fad of the week.  But we are ignoring our local base to
respond to them.  If we are not self-critical about how we are
ignoring -- even abandoning -- our local platform to that, we who
have sworn loyalty to this group have made an even greater error.





--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> wrote:
 > Flavio,
 > I think taht the recent events have made it clear enough that
while "all politics is
 > local" that doesn't mean that international and national events and
issues are not
 > played out locally. All politics is local means that everything
that is
 > "international" is local to social groups who are taking part, it
only becomes
 > international if we here about it. I think that issues local to New
Brunswick still
 > need to be adresssed, at the same tiome the a\whole world is
rapidly changing and we
 > are certainly on teh precipe of disaster, fascism and world war.
There is talk of
 > appointing Guilainai to another term in NYC, Racial profiling is
now being hailed as a
 > correct response, vigilantism is running rampid. Now is not teh
time to stick our
 > heads in the sand. The exclusion of international and natioanl
politics in teh
 > People's campaign last effort is now proving to have been a serious
dis-service to the
 > people who wer were trying to organize, to people who we might have
given soem of teh
 > ideological tools to understand what is happening in the world. We
didn't do that.
 > That was a very serious mistake. It is too bad that the campaign
could not realize
 > this and was allowed to nearly dis-intergrate by the refusal to be
self-critical.
 >
 > Keith
 >
 > Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
 >
 > > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., the keyboard of "joseph smith"
 > > <can_bush@h...> let loose the following undiluted fountain of
 > > foolishness:
 > >
 > > > what does this mean? njfo was split? what does an njfo split
have
 > > to do with
 > > > the fact that members of the U&S edit board sabatoged the
paper's
 > > production
 > > > & political line during '00 election?
 > >
 > > Yeah, Joe.  What does it mean?  Why are you holding this debate
on an
 > > egroup for New Brunswick progressives?  Please explain to me
what's
 > > on the agenda for the NBHA meeting tonight and what your group is
 > > doing in preparation for attending and speaking at the meeting
 > > tonight.  Please explain to me what's on the agenda for the city
 > > council next week, and what SWORD's position is on the zoning
 > > amendment change relating to the bank building near city hall that
 > > the developers have recently purchased.
 > >
 > > That's far more interesting to New Brunswick residents than your
 > > doctrinal squabble.
 > >
 > > "All politics is local" - Tip O'Neill, former Speaker of the
House.
 > >



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2167
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-28 14:40:27
Subject:Fw: KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! - prepared by the National Lawyers Guild
Message:


----- Original Message -----
From: "john kirkland" <ltpoodle@...>
To: "John Kirkland" <ltpoodle@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 7:20 PM
Subject: KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! - prepared by the National Lawyers Guild


 > KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! - prepared by the National Lawyers Guild
 >
 >  What rights do I have?
 >
 > The Right to Advocate for Change.
 >
 > The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects the rights of
 > groups and individuals who advocate changes in laws, government
 > practices, and even the form of government.
 >
 > The Right to Remain Silent.
 >
 > The Fifth Amendment of the Constitution provides that every person has
 > the right to remain silent in the face of questions posed by any police
 > officer or government agent.
 >
 > The Right to be Free from "Unreasonable Searches and Seizures."
 >
 > The Fourth Amendment is supposed to protect your privacy. Without a
 > warrant, no government agent is allowed to search your home or office
 > and you can refuse to let them in. Know, however, that it is easy for
 > the government to monitor your telephone calls, conversations in your
 > office, home, car, or meeting place, as well as mail. E-mail is
 > particularly insecure. The government has already begun stepping up its
 > monitoring of e-mails.
 >
 > CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS CANNOT BE SUSPENDED -- EVEN DURING  A STATE OF
 > EMERGENCY OR WARTIME.
 >
 > What should I do if agents come to question me?
 >
 > 1. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TALK TO THE POLICE, FBI, INS, OR ANY OTHER LAW
 > ENFORCEMENT AGENT OR INVESTIGATOR. Other than providing your name and
 > address to a police officer who is investigating a crime, you are not
 > legally obligated to talk to anyone: on the street, at your home or
 > office, if you've been arrested, or even if you're in jail. Only a judge
 > has the legal authority to order you to answer questions.
 >
 > 2. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LET POLICE OR OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENTS INTO
 > YOUR HOME OR OFFICE UNLESS THEY HAVE A SEARCH WARRANT OR ARREST WARRANT.
 > Demand to see the warrant. The warrant must specifically describe the
 > place to be searched and the things to be seized. If they have a
 > warrant, you cannot stop them from entering and searching, but you
 > should still tell them that you do not consent to a search. This will
 > limit them to the scope of the search authorized by the warrant.
 >
 > 3. IF THEY DO PRESENT A WARRANT, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO MONITOR THEIR
 > SEARCH AND ACTIVITIES. You have the right to observe what they do. You
 > have the right to ask them for their names and titles. Take written
 > notes including their names, badge numbers, and what agency they are
 > from. Have your friends who are present act as witnesses. Give this
 > information to your lawyer. A warrant does not give the government the
 > right to question, nor does it obligate you to answer questions.
 >
 > 4. IF THE POLICE OR FBI OR INS OR ANYONE ELSE TRIES TO QUESTION YOU OR
 > TRIES TO ENTER YOUR HOME WITHOUT A WARRANT, JUST SAY NO! Police and
 > other law enforcement agents are very skilled at getting information
 > from people. Many people are afraid that if they refuse to cooperate, it
 > will appear as if they have something to hide. Don't be fooled. The
 > police are allowed to (and do) lie to you. Although agents may seem nice
 > and pretend to be on your side, they are likely to be intent on learning
 > about the habits, opinions, and affiliations of people not suspected of
 > wrongdoing, with the end goal of stopping political activity with which
 > the government disagrees. Trying to answer agents' questions, or trying
 > to "educate them" about your cause can be very dangerous. You can never
 > tell how a seemingly harmless bit of information that you give them
 > might be used and misconstrued to hurt you or someone else. And keep in
 > mind that lying to a federal agent is a crime.
 >
 > 5. IF YOU ARE STOPPED ON THE STREET, ASK IF YOU ARE FREE TO GO. If you
 > are stopped by the police, ask them why. If they do not have a good
 > reason for stopping you, or if you find yourself chatting for more than
 > about a minute, ask ""Am I under arrest, or am I free to go."" If they
 > do not state that you are under arrest, tell them that you do not wish
 > to continue speaking with them and that you are going to go about your
 > business. Then do so.
 >
 > 6. ANYTHING YOU SAY TO THE POLICE, FBI, INS, ETC. WILL BE USED AGAINST
 > YOU AND OTHERS. Once you've been arrested, you cannot talk your way out
 > of it! Don't try to engage the cops in dialogue or respond to their
 > accusations.
 >
 > 7. THE FBI MAY THREATEN YOU WITH A GRAND JURY SUBPOENA IF YOU DON'T TALK
 > TO THEM. They may give you a subpoena anyway, so anything you tell them
 > may permit them to ask you more detailed questions later. You may also
 > have legal grounds to refuse to answer questions before a grand jury. If
 > you are given a grand jury subpoena, you should call a lawyer
 > immediately (see contact information at the end). Tell your friends and
 > movement groups about the subpoena and discuss how to respond. Do not
 > try to deal with this alone.
 >
 > 8. IF YOU ARE NERVOUS ABOUT SIMPLY REFUSING TO TALK, TELL THEM TO
 > CONTACT YOUR LAWYER. They should stop trying to question you once you
 > announce your desire to consult a lawyer. You do not have to already
 > have one. Remember to get the name, agency, and telephone number of any
 > investigator who visits you, and contact the National Lawyers Guild for
 > help getting a lawyer.
 >
 > How should I respond to threatening letters or calls?
 >
 > If your home or office is broken into, or threats have been made against
 > you, your organization, or someone you work with, share this information
 > with everyone affected. Take immediate steps to increase personal and
 > office security. You should discuss with your organization and with a
 > lawyer whether and how to report such incidents to the police and the
 > advisability of taking other legal action. If you decide to make a
 > report, do not do so without a lawyer present.
 >
 > What if I suspect surveillance?
 >
 > Prudence is the best course, no matter who you suspect, or what the
 > basis of your suspicion. Do not hesitate to confront suspected agents
 > politely, in public, with at least one other person present, and inquire
 > about their business. If the suspect declines to answer, he or she at
 > least now knows that you are aware of the surveillance. If you suspect
 > government agents are monitoring you, or are harassing you, report this
 > to the National Lawyers Guild.
 >
 > What if I am not a citizen?
 >
 > 1. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO REVEAL YOUR IMMIGRATION STATUS. We cannot count on
 > the police to honor local sanctuary ordinances, and the fact that the
 > INS obtained your name in violation of a sanctuary ordinance will NOT
 > prevent you from being deported.
 >
 > 2. FOREIGN NATIONALS WHO ARE ARRESTED IN THE U.S. HAVE THE RIGHT TO CALL
 > YOUR CONSULATE or to have the police inform your consulate of your
 > arrest. The police must allow your consul to visit or speak with you.
 > Your consul might assist you in finding a lawyer or offer other help,
 > such as contacting your family. You also have the right to refuse help
 > from your consulate.
 >
 > 3. DO NOT TALK TO THE INS, EVEN ON THE PHONE, before talking to an
 > immigration lawyer. Many INS officers view ""enforcement,"" meaning
 > deporting people, as their primary job. They do not believe that
 > explaining immigration options is part of their job, and most will
 > readily admit this. (Noncitizens who are victims of domestic abuse
 > should speak with an expert in both immigration law and domestic
 > violence.) A noncitizen should always speak with an immigration law
 > expert before speaking to the INS either in person or by telephone.
 >
 > 4. KNOW AND ASSERT YOUR RIGHTS! All noncitizens have the following
 > rights, regardless of your immigration status: a. The right to speak to
 > an attorney before answering any questions or signing any documents; b.
 > The right to a hearing with an Immigration Judge; c. The right to have
 > an attorney at that hearing and in any interview with INS (however you
 > do not have the right to a free, government-paid lawyer); and d. The
 > right to request release from detention, by paying a bond if necessary.
 >
 > Noncitizens must assert these rights. If you do not demand these rights,
 > you can be deported without seeing either an attorney or a judge.
 > Leaving the U.S. in this way may have serious consequences for your
 > ability to later enter or to gain legal immigration status in the U.S.
 >
 > 5. TALK TO AN IMMIGRATION LAWYER BEFORE LEAVING THE U.S. Anyone not a
 > U.S. citizen may be barred from coming back to the U.S. if they fall
 > into certain categories of people barred from entering. This includes
 > some lawful permanent residents and applicants for green cards. Some
 > noncitizens that have been in the U.S. without INS permission may be
 > permanently barred from re-entering. In addition, some noncitizens that
 > leave the US and return with INS permission may be swiftly removed from
 > the U.S. if they end up in immigration proceedings.
 >
 >   CONTACT INFORMATION
 >
 > National Lawyers Guild  National office: (212) 627-2656, www.nlg.org
 >
 > National Immigration Project: (617) 227-9727
 >
 > Immigration Law Center Immigration law information is available on
 > www.nilc.org
 >
 > American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee
 > Report hate crimes and harassment against Arab Americans and Muslims to
 > ADC: (202) 244-2990.



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2168
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-28 15:09:45
Subject:FBI raids Metuchen home
Message:

this is worse than high school drama. rumors are tearing down peoples doors. 
defeat terrorism - destroy the KKK

joesmith

               Published in the Home News Tribune 9/28/01

               By KEN SERRANO
               STAFF WRITER

               METUCHEN: They broke the door in with guns drawn, eight or 
nine FBI special agents and local police officers, sweeping          through 
the home at 219 Central Ave. just before 6 a.m.

               They handcuffed and hauled away the five men there, three 
Pakistani immigrants, one from India and a Pakistan-born American citizen 
with a heart problem, according to one of the men. The FBI took their phone, 
two cell phones, two beepers, two brief cases and other things.

               And what Abdul Wahed, a 19-year-old Pakistani immigrant who 
works at a gas station in Somerville, wants to know is for what?

               "I am sleeping. They say, "Hands Up!' I say, "OK,' " Wahed 
said with a shrug.

               Wednesday's raid was part of what's been called the largest 
investigation in the nation's history: to find those responsible for the 
death and destruction on American soil on Sept. 11.

               But three of the men interviewed yesterday, one cook and two 
gas-station attendants, pleaded for an explanation.

               Wahed said an FBI agent told the men that authorities were 
responding to a tip that the men held a celebration at the home on Sept. 11 
- the day terrorists crashed hijacked planes into the World Trade Center and 
the Pentagon.

               "Nobody celebrated, no party, nothing," Wahed said. The agent 
told him the alleged time of the celebration, 6 p.m., but everyone was 
working then, Wahed said.

               After five-to-six hours of interrogation, all five were 
released, three of the men said.

               Metuchen police referred all questions to the FBI.

               FBI spokeswoman Sherri Evanina confirmed the raid took place, 
but she offered few other details. The search warrant has been               
sealed. Warrants are worked on by a special agent and an assistant U.S. 
district attorney, and the probable cause for the warrant is presented to a 
U.S. magistrate, she said.

               Wahed brushed off the raid, saying he has gotten over it.

               But two of the other men, one who says he is supporting a 
wife and four children in Pakistan, said the incident has left them          
      shaken.

               "I am not a big man. I have no money, no nothing," said an 
emotional Khaliq Amin. The 30-year-old immigrant, who arrived in             
   the United States eight years ago, pointed to an Urdu-language Pakistani 
newspaper. "My country help this country now."

               Amin, a gas-station attendant, added that his own close 
friend died in the World Trade Center collapse. The third man, Syed Tahir 
Abbas-Kazmi, 35, who is supporting a family, said the raid has cost him 
sleep.

               Jagdish Deol, who owns the house and the automotive-repair 
business and gas station next door, said FBI agents arrived a few days 
before the raid inquiring about what he called a rumor circulating around 
Metuchen.

               Deol, an East African-born man of Indian descent, came to the 
United States in 1974 and bought the business in 1982, when he               
was 26. He said he has spoken to customers since the terrorist attacks to 
dispel the false report about someone celebrating at his business.

               He believes the rumor sparked the raid at the home Wednesday, 
as well as causing a 50 percent drop in his business the first few days 
after the attacks.

               "It all came from the rumor," Deol said. ""I'm just hurt. 
I've had people come in and tell me all you brown people are the same. In 
Oklahoma (City), did we raid every white man's house?"

               Ken Serrano: (732) 565-7212. E-mail kserrano@...

               from the Home News Tribune

               Published: September 28, 2001

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2169
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-29 11:37:07
Subject:Re: Flavio
Message:

Matt,

thanks for forwarding that dialogue.  However, I remain unpersuaded.  
First, I would ask you to consider this: how does Mr. Baraka expect 
someone to be won over to his view by effectively calling him, within 
the first six words, "intellectually lazy" and "timid[]"?  It might 
be fun for a writer to hurl pompous insults -- I have been guilty of 
that at times myself -- but it does little to persuade a fellow 
progressive to come around to a different perspective on things.

As to the substance, Mr. Baraka posits that there must be a "grasp" 
of "revolutionary democratic struggle" as well as "mobiliz[ation] of 
the people" around it.  Regrettably, Mr. Baraka's brand 
of "revolutionary democratic struggle" as well as that of Messrs. Joe 
and Cliff Smith is the hurling of insults and slogans, combined with 
the relatively obscure literary or historical references, instead of 
well-thought out activity meant to acheive political change.  Don't 
know who Dimitroff is, or which work he is referring to.  Nor do I 
know the content of the "Weimar Casebook" either.   (Keep in mind I 
have a doctorate degree including an undergrad poli-sci degree).  
While I do know what Weimar 1933 means, as do you, I ask how many of 
the "people" he is trying to reach will "grasp" that message?  Few if 
any.  Therein the key problem with his means and message.

By following Mr. Baraka's strategy about advocacy, the result is 
some "revolutionaries" setting forth doctrinally correct messages, 
only to be misunderstood, not understood, ignored, or laughed at by 
the hearer.  The results?  (A) A lost opportunity to persuade that 
retaliation against Afghanistan or other Middle Eastern states or 
people is unjust and that domestic "security" policies are an 
undisguised attack on individual rights and (B) A conclusion by the 
hearer that the speaker is a crank.  

Neither is the result intended by the speaker!

In order to get people to listen to a message, the message has to be 
clear and credible, as does the speaker.  "people's war on the 
rightwing bushwacker," simply put, doesn't pass that test.  In that 
regard, I entirely agree with kalamu's sentiments.  Please feel free 
to forward this response to kalamu and Baraka if you wish.






--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> Flavio- While you're correct that we must remain on point with 
local issues, 
> NB trends do not exist in isolation.  The NBPC did a great 
diservice to the 
> people of the city by not using the opportunities afforded by 
electoral 
> campaign to rise greater awareness of how their problems relate to 
trends 
> nationally and internationally.  To this end, I foward a recent 
response 
> from Baraka to a similar position as yours...Try not to hold your 
nose when 
> you read it.  (you too Kazlowski)
> -Matt
> 
> 
> In a message dated 9/19/01 5:40:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
kalamu  writes:
> 
> We need to avoid leftwing rhetoric and revolutionary posturing, be
> concrete and address actual issues on the public agenda and not make
> premature anticipations or apocalyptic predictions. Internally we
> need to try to see as far ahead as possible and try to go deep
> analytically in order to be as prepared as possible, but externally
> we need to speak to facts on the ground, avoid concepts or images
> that are adamantly rejected by even peace loving people, and avoid
> prematurely polarizing with potential allies. All this while still
> drawing firm lines against the right.
> 
> Baraka's response,
> 
> It is this intellectually lazy "timidity" that has got us to the 
brink of 
> war and economic disaster. Either we grasp and mobilize the people 
around 
> Revolutionary Democratic Struggle, or we will be in Weimar 1933-
1/2    Will 
> this person read anyone.
> Dimitroff, a good beginning.....Du Bois on American in the 50's   
Fidel 's 
> speech on Bushwacker declaration of Dead or Alive, With us or With 
the 
> Terrorists" as a declaration of US imp intention to make the world 
a 
> military dictatorship!??
> 
> Or read "The Weimar Casebook" U of Calif and he'll see himself, 
about to get 
> wasted!
> Amiri Baraka
> 
> 
> 
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Groovemeister007@y...
> Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> Subject: [nbpc] Re:] SOS-Joe
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 03:10:49 -0000
> 
> Keith,
> 
> Your views about the role of national and international politics in 
a
> local electoral campaign are certainly principled, and are entitled
> to respect.  I have considered them carefully, but I don't fully
> share them.  Not agreeing with your views does not bespeak a failure
> to be self-critical, but just an honest disagreement with your
> conclusions.
> 
> I would ask you to consider this: the local Democratic Party
> candidates did not speak of national or international issues, but
> they won, i.e. they received more votes than we did.  Obviously,
> their failure to address national and international issues was not
> fatal to their electoral campaign, but you seem to say that it was
> fatal or at least injurious as to NBPC.  I must confess that I don't
> follow the causal chain there.
> 
> I believe that in most local elections, the same is true, i.e. that
> the victors do not talk about national and international issues, but
> local issues, i.e. how they will reduce local taxes, increase school
> test scores, promote responsible development, keep an eye on the
> police.  There are exceptions when the local populace has shown a 
pre-
> existing interest in national and international events.  E.g.,
> running in Edison, one might expect a candidate to weigh in on the
> U.S. role in the India-Pakistan conflict, or running in Union City,
> the local candidate might weigh in on the federal government's Cuba
> embargo policy.
> 
> That is why it would be correct for a New Brunswick candidate to
> weigh in on Attorney General John Farmer, Peter Verniero, and on
> racial profiling by the state police, or on the use of Vieques, PR 
as
> a military training facility by the Navy and Marine Corps.
> Specifically, substantial portions of the local population have a 
pre-
> existing interest in these national/international issues.  But that
> candidate had better know and spend most of her time talking about
> local issues, e.g. the hospital expansion, the abysmal board of ed.,
> the NBHA's transfer of land worth $4 million to developers and
> nonpublic entities without sufficient contractual safeguards.
> 
> Besides staying on-message, it also helps to stay positive, without
> the regular use of angry rhetoric.  In sum, I don't deny the need to
> speak about issues beyond NB, but it ought to be targeted to win 
over
> the voters, i.e. the people who will decide whether our candidates 
or
> our issues win or lose, and persuade them to flip the lever for us 
or
> those we endorse on November 6, 2001 and November 5, 2002.
> 
> That said, where were NBPC's members and friends on Wednesday night?
> At an anti-war rally (expressing a view shared by a whopping ten
> percent of the electorate as measured by reputable polls).  Not at
> the Housing Authority, meeting with local residents, empathizing 
with
> them, speaking out on their behalf, getting press in the name of
> NBPC.  What are the plans of NBPC's members and friends to complete
> our petition-gathering on the Democracy and Accountability
> Ordinance?  How many NBPC members have gotten themselves appointed 
as
> poll watchers on election day (46 days away), so we can 'learn the
> ropes' in preparation for the 2002 run?  Where was the NBPC response
> to Borraie's acquistion of the bank on Bayard Street?  (See
> http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,449339,00.html  )
> 
> Therein lies the key problem.  The terrorist attacks and the 
response
> of government (including authorizing profiling, new surveillance
> powers, etc.) are important issues and are clearly much more than 
the
> activist fad of the week.  But we are ignoring our local base to
> respond to them.  If we are not self-critical about how we are
> ignoring -- even abandoning -- our local platform to that, we who
> have sworn loyalty to this group have made an even greater error.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> 
wrote:
>  > Flavio,
>  > I think taht the recent events have made it clear enough that
> while "all politics is
>  > local" that doesn't mean that international and national events 
and
> issues are not
>  > played out locally. All politics is local means that everything
> that is
>  > "international" is local to social groups who are taking part, it
> only becomes
>  > international if we here about it. I think that issues local to 
New
> Brunswick still
>  > need to be adresssed, at the same tiome the a\whole world is
> rapidly changing and we
>  > are certainly on teh precipe of disaster, fascism and world war.
> There is talk of
>  > appointing Guilainai to another term in NYC, Racial profiling is
> now being hailed as a
>  > correct response, vigilantism is running rampid. Now is not teh
> time to stick our
>  > heads in the sand. The exclusion of international and natioanl
> politics in teh
>  > People's campaign last effort is now proving to have been a 
serious
> dis-service to the
>  > people who wer were trying to organize, to people who we might 
have
> given soem of teh
>  > ideological tools to understand what is happening in the world. 
We
> didn't do that.
>  > That was a very serious mistake. It is too bad that the campaign
> could not realize
>  > this and was allowed to nearly dis-intergrate by the refusal to 
be
> self-critical.
>  >
>  > Keith
>  >
>  > Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
>  >
>  > > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., the keyboard of "joseph smith"
>  > > <can_bush@h...> let loose the following undiluted fountain of
>  > > foolishness:
>  > >
>  > > > what does this mean? njfo was split? what does an njfo split
> have
>  > > to do with
>  > > > the fact that members of the U&S edit board sabatoged the
> paper's
>  > > production
>  > > > & political line during '00 election?
>  > >
>  > > Yeah, Joe.  What does it mean?  Why are you holding this debate
> on an
>  > > egroup for New Brunswick progressives?  Please explain to me
> what's
>  > > on the agenda for the NBHA meeting tonight and what your group 
is
>  > > doing in preparation for attending and speaking at the meeting
>  > > tonight.  Please explain to me what's on the agenda for the 
city
>  > > council next week, and what SWORD's position is on the zoning
>  > > amendment change relating to the bank building near city hall 
that
>  > > the developers have recently purchased.
>  > >
>  > > That's far more interesting to New Brunswick residents than 
your
>  > > doctrinal squabble.
>  > >
>  > > "All politics is local" - Tip O'Neill, former Speaker of the
> House.
>  > >
> 
> 
> 
> To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> 
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
> nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2170
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-29 12:03:24
Subject:Fwd: The Wooden Soldiers @ the Court Tavern 10/12
Message:



>From: "Greg Di Gesu" <gregdig65@...>
>To: <gregdig65@...>
>Subject: The Wooden Soldiers @ the Court Tavern 10/12
>Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 00:29:57 -0400
>
>
>
>                                        Ahhhh....the return of The Wooden
>Soldiers!!!
>                                                     (who woulda thunk it?)
>
>                                                   Featuring original
>members:
>
>                                       Paul Rieder  - songs, guitar, 
>vocals,
>'tude
>                                       Greg Di Gesu - same as above
>                                       Matt Guzda - drums and calculus
>                                       Paul Marangelo - songs, bass, and
>zebra mussels
>
>
>                                            Friday October 12th @ 12 
>midnite
>
>                    ** in celebration of the Court Tavern's 20th 
>anniversary
>of music **
>
>                                                          @
>
>                                                                     the
>                                                             Court Tavern
>                                                            124 Church St
>                                                         New Brunswick, NJ
>                                                             732.545.7265
>                                                            admission - $7
>
>                                                    w/ Third Party - 11pm
>                                                         The Blases - 1am
>
>
>       This is a reunion show of great bands that were all part of New
>Brunswick's musical history.  Join us in celebrating and thanking the Court
>Tavern for providing great music and continuing this history.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>      For those who never had the opportunity to experience this original
>line up of the Wooden Soldiers, it was truly a special thing and we invite
>you to discover both this and our songs, if you haven't already.  And now a
>few words from a good friend and fan:
>
>
>          When I heard that the Wooden Soldiers would be reuniting for a
>concert
>  in October, I had the same feeling as when Sid Bernstein was rumored to 
>be
>getting The Beatles back together in 1976.  Only with the Wooden Soldiers,
>it's true.  On October 12th, Paul Rieder, Greg Di Gesu, Paul Marangelo and
>Matt Guzda  will perform together for the first time in about 13 years.
>This seminal version of the band is the one that created the LP, "Hippies,
>Punks and Rubber Men" on Absolute A-Go-Go Records back in 1987.  At
>the time, I was just finishing up at Rutgers.  For a couple of years prior
>to
>the LP and for a short time after, they were THE band to see in New
>Brunswick.
>      There was a time (before the alt. rock renaissance of the 90's) when
>the stuff most people listened to was forced upon them by MTV (Madonna,
>Michael Jackson, Huey Lewis, etc.).  So I regressed happily to the music of
>the 60's and 70's mostly.  But I loved The Wooden Soldiers.  To this day I
>feel that they were the only "undiscovered" band I've ever come across that
>could've really "made it" and changed the direction of the music
>industry...if only they continued.  They were ahead of their time.
>      This was extremely literate rock.  To say the band had the smarts of
>Dylan and the tunefulness of "Rubber Soul era" Beatles would not be an
>overstatement.  They were often compared to The Feelies (cult heroes from
>NJ).  The influences and similarities I always drew were of the Velvet
>Underground, The Violent Femmes and early REM.  The songs on that first
>album were full of fantastic wordplay and melodies.  "Commercial Avenue" 
>had
>the heaviest rotation at the time on WRSU (Rutgers) and other small 
>stations
>in Jersey, but all the tracks were equally as strong.  The album's lyrics
>portrayed urban sprawl and decay, pacifists, philosophers, lost youth,
>amnesia, pitchforks and a touch of psychosis.
>      One of the most appealing things about The Wooden Soldiers was that
>there were two equally gifted songwriters/vocalists/guitarists in Greg
>Di Gesu and Paul Rieder.  As with Lennon/McCartney (sorry for all the
>Beatles references) or Garcia/Weir, when you have two great talents
>alternating
>tunes in concert and constantly trying to outdo and impress each other, it
>adds a tremendous strength to the band.
>      Not long after "Hippies, Punks and Rubber Men" things began to slowly
>break apart.  Bassist Paul Marangelo was the first to leave the fold with a
>decision to "find himself" on the Appalachian Trail.  He was replaced for a
>while by Claude Coleman (now drummer for Ween).  A second album, "Lazy
>Man's Load" was recorded.  It was absolutely brilliant.  It was never
>released.
>Paul Rieder left the band and moved to California.  Greg continued as the
>sole driving force behind The Wooden Soldiers for a short time (drummer
>Matt Guzda still in tow) and subsequently formed Fishermen's Stew during 
>the
>90's.  He's currently in a band called Speedsters and Dopers.  Paul Rieder
>returned for a while, did a few solo projects and performed with All God's
>Children.  He now has a farm in upstate NY.  The original band will be
>rehearsing there for a few days prior to the show.  It should be truly
>magical.
>      A message to any of you reading this with a cache of those 1st LP's 
>on
>Absolute A-Go-Go:  Bring'em to the show to giveaway, sell, barter?  The
>people attending will want these records (you all still have turntables,
>don't you?)
>      The gig is part of The Court Tavern's 20th anniversary series of
>reunion shows.  This little step back to the New Brunswick music scene 
>circa
>1987 will bring a smile to your face, and I think you'll be amazed at what
>was...and what might've been.
>
>  I wouldn't miss it for the world.
>
>  John Peluso
>    Raleigh, NC
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>*and don't miss these other  reunion shows:
>
>    10/19 Nudeswirl/The Blisters
>10/20 Tiny Lights/Spiral Jetty
>10/27 The Selves/All God's Children
>11/3 Adrenalin O.D./Pleased Youth/Bedlam
>11/17 The Raging Lamos/Everlounge
>
>
>
>
>                                       ~ distribute freely ~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2171
Sender:Joseph Kaminski <jkaminsk@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-29 13:08:33
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] FBI raids Metuchen home
Message:

fuck off joe smith.  

Joe Kaminski

On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, joseph smith wrote:

> this is worse than high school drama. rumors are tearing down peoples doors. 
> defeat terrorism - destroy the KKK
> 
> joesmith
> 
>                Published in the Home News Tribune 9/28/01
> 
>                By KEN SERRANO
>                STAFF WRITER
> 
>                METUCHEN: They broke the door in with guns drawn, eight or 
> nine FBI special agents and local police officers, sweeping          through 
> the home at 219 Central Ave. just before 6 a.m.
> 
>                They handcuffed and hauled away the five men there, three 
> Pakistani immigrants, one from India and a Pakistan-born American citizen 
> with a heart problem, according to one of the men. The FBI took their phone, 
> two cell phones, two beepers, two brief cases and other things.
> 
>                And what Abdul Wahed, a 19-year-old Pakistani immigrant who 
> works at a gas station in Somerville, wants to know is for what?
> 
>                "I am sleeping. They say, "Hands Up!' I say, "OK,' " Wahed 
> said with a shrug.
> 
>                Wednesday's raid was part of what's been called the largest 
> investigation in the nation's history: to find those responsible for the 
> death and destruction on American soil on Sept. 11.
> 
>                But three of the men interviewed yesterday, one cook and two 
> gas-station attendants, pleaded for an explanation.
> 
>                Wahed said an FBI agent told the men that authorities were 
> responding to a tip that the men held a celebration at the home on Sept. 11 
> - the day terrorists crashed hijacked planes into the World Trade Center and 
> the Pentagon.
> 
>                "Nobody celebrated, no party, nothing," Wahed said. The agent 
> told him the alleged time of the celebration, 6 p.m., but everyone was 
> working then, Wahed said.
> 
>                After five-to-six hours of interrogation, all five were 
> released, three of the men said.
> 
>                Metuchen police referred all questions to the FBI.
> 
>                FBI spokeswoman Sherri Evanina confirmed the raid took place, 
> but she offered few other details. The search warrant has been               
> sealed. Warrants are worked on by a special agent and an assistant U.S. 
> district attorney, and the probable cause for the warrant is presented to a 
> U.S. magistrate, she said.
> 
>                Wahed brushed off the raid, saying he has gotten over it.
> 
>                But two of the other men, one who says he is supporting a 
> wife and four children in Pakistan, said the incident has left them          
>       shaken.
> 
>                "I am not a big man. I have no money, no nothing," said an 
> emotional Khaliq Amin. The 30-year-old immigrant, who arrived in             
>    the United States eight years ago, pointed to an Urdu-language Pakistani 
> newspaper. "My country help this country now."
> 
>                Amin, a gas-station attendant, added that his own close 
> friend died in the World Trade Center collapse. The third man, Syed Tahir 
> Abbas-Kazmi, 35, who is supporting a family, said the raid has cost him 
> sleep.
> 
>                Jagdish Deol, who owns the house and the automotive-repair 
> business and gas station next door, said FBI agents arrived a few days 
> before the raid inquiring about what he called a rumor circulating around 
> Metuchen.
> 
>                Deol, an East African-born man of Indian descent, came to the 
> United States in 1974 and bought the business in 1982, when he               
> was 26. He said he has spoken to customers since the terrorist attacks to 
> dispel the false report about someone celebrating at his business.
> 
>                He believes the rumor sparked the raid at the home Wednesday, 
> as well as causing a 50 percent drop in his business the first few days 
> after the attacks.
> 
>                "It all came from the rumor," Deol said. ""I'm just hurt. 
> I've had people come in and tell me all you brown people are the same. In 
> Oklahoma (City), did we raid every white man's house?"
> 
>                Ken Serrano: (732) 565-7212. E-mail kserrano@...
> 
>                from the Home News Tribune
> 
>                Published: September 28, 2001
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RUGreens-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2172
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-29 14:00:15
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Flavio
Message:

i have neither a doctorate nor an under-grad (poli-sci) degree & understand 
baraka's statement clearly.  perhaps the certificates (&tip o'neil 
aspirations) cloud messr. komuves' class consciousness.

all local politics is international.

advance the nb peoples' campaign &
build the peoples' democratic workers' party!

cs




>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Flavio
>Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 15:37:07 -0000
>
>Matt,
>
>thanks for forwarding that dialogue.  However, I remain unpersuaded.
>First, I would ask you to consider this: how does Mr. Baraka expect
>someone to be won over to his view by effectively calling him, within
>the first six words, "intellectually lazy" and "timid[]"?  It might
>be fun for a writer to hurl pompous insults -- I have been guilty of
>that at times myself -- but it does little to persuade a fellow
>progressive to come around to a different perspective on things.
>
>As to the substance, Mr. Baraka posits that there must be a "grasp"
>of "revolutionary democratic struggle" as well as "mobiliz[ation] of
>the people" around it.  Regrettably, Mr. Baraka's brand
>of "revolutionary democratic struggle" as well as that of Messrs. Joe
>and Cliff Smith is the hurling of insults and slogans, combined with
>the relatively obscure literary or historical references, instead of
>well-thought out activity meant to acheive political change.  Don't
>know who Dimitroff is, or which work he is referring to.  Nor do I
>know the content of the "Weimar Casebook" either.   (Keep in mind I
>have a doctorate degree including an undergrad poli-sci degree).
>While I do know what Weimar 1933 means, as do you, I ask how many of
>the "people" he is trying to reach will "grasp" that message?  Few if
>any.  Therein the key problem with his means and message.
>
>By following Mr. Baraka's strategy about advocacy, the result is
>some "revolutionaries" setting forth doctrinally correct messages,
>only to be misunderstood, not understood, ignored, or laughed at by
>the hearer.  The results?  (A) A lost opportunity to persuade that
>retaliation against Afghanistan or other Middle Eastern states or
>people is unjust and that domestic "security" policies are an
>undisguised attack on individual rights and (B) A conclusion by the
>hearer that the speaker is a crank.
>
>Neither is the result intended by the speaker!
>
>In order to get people to listen to a message, the message has to be
>clear and credible, as does the speaker.  "people's war on the
>rightwing bushwacker," simply put, doesn't pass that test.  In that
>regard, I entirely agree with kalamu's sentiments.  Please feel free
>to forward this response to kalamu and Baraka if you wish.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> > Flavio- While you're correct that we must remain on point with
>local issues,
> > NB trends do not exist in isolation.  The NBPC did a great
>diservice to the
> > people of the city by not using the opportunities afforded by
>electoral
> > campaign to rise greater awareness of how their problems relate to
>trends
> > nationally and internationally.  To this end, I foward a recent
>response
> > from Baraka to a similar position as yours...Try not to hold your
>nose when
> > you read it.  (you too Kazlowski)
> > -Matt
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 9/19/01 5:40:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>kalamu  writes:
> >
> > We need to avoid leftwing rhetoric and revolutionary posturing, be
> > concrete and address actual issues on the public agenda and not make
> > premature anticipations or apocalyptic predictions. Internally we
> > need to try to see as far ahead as possible and try to go deep
> > analytically in order to be as prepared as possible, but externally
> > we need to speak to facts on the ground, avoid concepts or images
> > that are adamantly rejected by even peace loving people, and avoid
> > prematurely polarizing with potential allies. All this while still
> > drawing firm lines against the right.
> >
> > Baraka's response,
> >
> > It is this intellectually lazy "timidity" that has got us to the
>brink of
> > war and economic disaster. Either we grasp and mobilize the people
>around
> > Revolutionary Democratic Struggle, or we will be in Weimar 1933-
>1/2    Will
> > this person read anyone.
> > Dimitroff, a good beginning.....Du Bois on American in the 50's
>Fidel 's
> > speech on Bushwacker declaration of Dead or Alive, With us or With
>the
> > Terrorists" as a declaration of US imp intention to make the world
>a
> > military dictatorship!??
> >
> > Or read "The Weimar Casebook" U of Calif and he'll see himself,
>about to get
> > wasted!
> > Amiri Baraka
> >
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > Subject: [nbpc] Re:] SOS-Joe
> > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 03:10:49 -0000
> >
> > Keith,
> >
> > Your views about the role of national and international politics in
>a
> > local electoral campaign are certainly principled, and are entitled
> > to respect.  I have considered them carefully, but I don't fully
> > share them.  Not agreeing with your views does not bespeak a failure
> > to be self-critical, but just an honest disagreement with your
> > conclusions.
> >
> > I would ask you to consider this: the local Democratic Party
> > candidates did not speak of national or international issues, but
> > they won, i.e. they received more votes than we did.  Obviously,
> > their failure to address national and international issues was not
> > fatal to their electoral campaign, but you seem to say that it was
> > fatal or at least injurious as to NBPC.  I must confess that I don't
> > follow the causal chain there.
> >
> > I believe that in most local elections, the same is true, i.e. that
> > the victors do not talk about national and international issues, but
> > local issues, i.e. how they will reduce local taxes, increase school
> > test scores, promote responsible development, keep an eye on the
> > police.  There are exceptions when the local populace has shown a
>pre-
> > existing interest in national and international events.  E.g.,
> > running in Edison, one might expect a candidate to weigh in on the
> > U.S. role in the India-Pakistan conflict, or running in Union City,
> > the local candidate might weigh in on the federal government's Cuba
> > embargo policy.
> >
> > That is why it would be correct for a New Brunswick candidate to
> > weigh in on Attorney General John Farmer, Peter Verniero, and on
> > racial profiling by the state police, or on the use of Vieques, PR
>as
> > a military training facility by the Navy and Marine Corps.
> > Specifically, substantial portions of the local population have a
>pre-
> > existing interest in these national/international issues.  But that
> > candidate had better know and spend most of her time talking about
> > local issues, e.g. the hospital expansion, the abysmal board of ed.,
> > the NBHA's transfer of land worth $4 million to developers and
> > nonpublic entities without sufficient contractual safeguards.
> >
> > Besides staying on-message, it also helps to stay positive, without
> > the regular use of angry rhetoric.  In sum, I don't deny the need to
> > speak about issues beyond NB, but it ought to be targeted to win
>over
> > the voters, i.e. the people who will decide whether our candidates
>or
> > our issues win or lose, and persuade them to flip the lever for us
>or
> > those we endorse on November 6, 2001 and November 5, 2002.
> >
> > That said, where were NBPC's members and friends on Wednesday night?
> > At an anti-war rally (expressing a view shared by a whopping ten
> > percent of the electorate as measured by reputable polls).  Not at
> > the Housing Authority, meeting with local residents, empathizing
>with
> > them, speaking out on their behalf, getting press in the name of
> > NBPC.  What are the plans of NBPC's members and friends to complete
> > our petition-gathering on the Democracy and Accountability
> > Ordinance?  How many NBPC members have gotten themselves appointed
>as
> > poll watchers on election day (46 days away), so we can 'learn the
> > ropes' in preparation for the 2002 run?  Where was the NBPC response
> > to Borraie's acquistion of the bank on Bayard Street?  (See
> > http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,449339,00.html  )
> >
> > Therein lies the key problem.  The terrorist attacks and the
>response
> > of government (including authorizing profiling, new surveillance
> > powers, etc.) are important issues and are clearly much more than
>the
> > activist fad of the week.  But we are ignoring our local base to
> > respond to them.  If we are not self-critical about how we are
> > ignoring -- even abandoning -- our local platform to that, we who
> > have sworn loyalty to this group have made an even greater error.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...>
>wrote:
> >  > Flavio,
> >  > I think taht the recent events have made it clear enough that
> > while "all politics is
> >  > local" that doesn't mean that international and national events
>and
> > issues are not
> >  > played out locally. All politics is local means that everything
> > that is
> >  > "international" is local to social groups who are taking part, it
> > only becomes
> >  > international if we here about it. I think that issues local to
>New
> > Brunswick still
> >  > need to be adresssed, at the same tiome the a\whole world is
> > rapidly changing and we
> >  > are certainly on teh precipe of disaster, fascism and world war.
> > There is talk of
> >  > appointing Guilainai to another term in NYC, Racial profiling is
> > now being hailed as a
> >  > correct response, vigilantism is running rampid. Now is not teh
> > time to stick our
> >  > heads in the sand. The exclusion of international and natioanl
> > politics in teh
> >  > People's campaign last effort is now proving to have been a
>serious
> > dis-service to the
> >  > people who wer were trying to organize, to people who we might
>have
> > given soem of teh
> >  > ideological tools to understand what is happening in the world.
>We
> > didn't do that.
> >  > That was a very serious mistake. It is too bad that the campaign
> > could not realize
> >  > this and was allowed to nearly dis-intergrate by the refusal to
>be
> > self-critical.
> >  >
> >  > Keith
> >  >
> >  > Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> >  >
> >  > > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., the keyboard of "joseph smith"
> >  > > <can_bush@h...> let loose the following undiluted fountain of
> >  > > foolishness:
> >  > >
> >  > > > what does this mean? njfo was split? what does an njfo split
> > have
> >  > > to do with
> >  > > > the fact that members of the U&S edit board sabatoged the
> > paper's
> >  > > production
> >  > > > & political line during '00 election?
> >  > >
> >  > > Yeah, Joe.  What does it mean?  Why are you holding this debate
> > on an
> >  > > egroup for New Brunswick progressives?  Please explain to me
> > what's
> >  > > on the agenda for the NBHA meeting tonight and what your group
>is
> >  > > doing in preparation for attending and speaking at the meeting
> >  > > tonight.  Please explain to me what's on the agenda for the
>city
> >  > > council next week, and what SWORD's position is on the zoning
> >  > > amendment change relating to the bank building near city hall
>that
> >  > > the developers have recently purchased.
> >  > >
> >  > > That's far more interesting to New Brunswick residents than
>your
> >  > > doctrinal squabble.
> >  > >
> >  > > "All politics is local" - Tip O'Neill, former Speaker of the
> > House.
> >  > >
> >
> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2173
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-09-29 14:46:51
Subject:Re: Flavio
Message:

Cliff,

The reference to Tip O'Neill was appropriate, since he was a man who 
was eminently successful in winning electoral campaigns, which is 
more than can be said for you.  I commend you for being able to 
understand Mr. Baraka's statement; since you are one of his acolytes, 
I would expect no less.  That said, however, I still feel most 
people, credentialed or not, would not undestand it.

I say: "President Bush is a ignorant fool for referring to the fight 
on terrorism as a 'crusade.'  Crusades were wars waged in the Middle 
Ages by Christian Europe against Moslems who were in possession of 
the Holy Land, yet today he seeks Moslem countries as our allies.  
The comment bespeaks insensitivity, ignorance, and an inability to 
prosecute an effective foreign policy."

Cliff says: "right wing religion imperalist bushwacker is out to 
lunch."

Which sounds more persuasive, responsible, or credible?  And you 
wonder why I see your extremist brand of policies and methods of 
expressing them as a threat to the NBPC's goals of getting 
progressive candidates in office through electoral wins?  Wonder no 
more, sir!


P.S. I still have not received answers to the following from anyone:

1. Why did NBPC and SWORD fail to attend the Housing Authority on 
Wednesday night to meet with local residents, empathizing with them, 
speaking out on their behalf, and getting press in the name of NBPC?

2. What are the plans of NBPC's members and friends to complete our 
petition-gathering on the Democracy and Accountability Ordinance?

3. How many NBPC / SWORD members have gotten themselves appointed as 
poll watchers on election day (now 37 days away), so we can 'learn 
the ropes' in preparation for the 2002 run?  

4. Where was the NBPC response to Borraie's acquistion of the bank on 
Bayard Street?  (See 
http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,449339,00.html  )?  What is 
the plan for a presentation about same at the next city council 
meeting? 








--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> 
wrote:
> i have neither a doctorate nor an under-grad (poli-sci) degree & 
understand 
> baraka's statement clearly.  perhaps the certificates (&tip o'neil 
> aspirations) cloud messr. komuves' class consciousness.
> 
> all local politics is international.
> 
> advance the nb peoples' campaign &
> build the peoples' democratic workers' party!
> 
> cs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: [nbpc] Re: Flavio
> >Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 15:37:07 -0000
> >
> >Matt,
> >
> >thanks for forwarding that dialogue.  However, I remain 
unpersuaded.
> >First, I would ask you to consider this: how does Mr. Baraka expect
> >someone to be won over to his view by effectively calling him, 
within
> >the first six words, "intellectually lazy" and "timid[]"?  It might
> >be fun for a writer to hurl pompous insults -- I have been guilty 
of
> >that at times myself -- but it does little to persuade a fellow
> >progressive to come around to a different perspective on things.
> >
> >As to the substance, Mr. Baraka posits that there must be a "grasp"
> >of "revolutionary democratic struggle" as well as "mobiliz[ation] 
of
> >the people" around it.  Regrettably, Mr. Baraka's brand
> >of "revolutionary democratic struggle" as well as that of Messrs. 
Joe
> >and Cliff Smith is the hurling of insults and slogans, combined 
with
> >the relatively obscure literary or historical references, instead 
of
> >well-thought out activity meant to acheive political change.  Don't
> >know who Dimitroff is, or which work he is referring to.  Nor do I
> >know the content of the "Weimar Casebook" either.   (Keep in mind I
> >have a doctorate degree including an undergrad poli-sci degree).
> >While I do know what Weimar 1933 means, as do you, I ask how many 
of
> >the "people" he is trying to reach will "grasp" that message?  Few 
if
> >any.  Therein the key problem with his means and message.
> >
> >By following Mr. Baraka's strategy about advocacy, the result is
> >some "revolutionaries" setting forth doctrinally correct messages,
> >only to be misunderstood, not understood, ignored, or laughed at by
> >the hearer.  The results?  (A) A lost opportunity to persuade that
> >retaliation against Afghanistan or other Middle Eastern states or
> >people is unjust and that domestic "security" policies are an
> >undisguised attack on individual rights and (B) A conclusion by the
> >hearer that the speaker is a crank.
> >
> >Neither is the result intended by the speaker!
> >
> >In order to get people to listen to a message, the message has to 
be
> >clear and credible, as does the speaker.  "people's war on the
> >rightwing bushwacker," simply put, doesn't pass that test.  In that
> >regard, I entirely agree with kalamu's sentiments.  Please feel 
free
> >to forward this response to kalamu and Baraka if you wish.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> 
wrote:
> > > Flavio- While you're correct that we must remain on point with
> >local issues,
> > > NB trends do not exist in isolation.  The NBPC did a great
> >diservice to the
> > > people of the city by not using the opportunities afforded by
> >electoral
> > > campaign to rise greater awareness of how their problems relate 
to
> >trends
> > > nationally and internationally.  To this end, I foward a recent
> >response
> > > from Baraka to a similar position as yours...Try not to hold 
your
> >nose when
> > > you read it.  (you too Kazlowski)
> > > -Matt
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 9/19/01 5:40:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >kalamu  writes:
> > >
> > > We need to avoid leftwing rhetoric and revolutionary posturing, 
be
> > > concrete and address actual issues on the public agenda and not 
make
> > > premature anticipations or apocalyptic predictions. Internally 
we
> > > need to try to see as far ahead as possible and try to go deep
> > > analytically in order to be as prepared as possible, but 
externally
> > > we need to speak to facts on the ground, avoid concepts or 
images
> > > that are adamantly rejected by even peace loving people, and 
avoid
> > > prematurely polarizing with potential allies. All this while 
still
> > > drawing firm lines against the right.
> > >
> > > Baraka's response,
> > >
> > > It is this intellectually lazy "timidity" that has got us to the
> >brink of
> > > war and economic disaster. Either we grasp and mobilize the 
people
> >around
> > > Revolutionary Democratic Struggle, or we will be in Weimar 1933-
> >1/2    Will
> > > this person read anyone.
> > > Dimitroff, a good beginning.....Du Bois on American in the 50's
> >Fidel 's
> > > speech on Bushwacker declaration of Dead or Alive, With us or 
With
> >the
> > > Terrorists" as a declaration of US imp intention to make the 
world
> >a
> > > military dictatorship!??
> > >
> > > Or read "The Weimar Casebook" U of Calif and he'll see himself,
> >about to get
> > > wasted!
> > > Amiri Baraka
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > > Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > Subject: [nbpc] Re:] SOS-Joe
> > > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 03:10:49 -0000
> > >
> > > Keith,
> > >
> > > Your views about the role of national and international 
politics in
> >a
> > > local electoral campaign are certainly principled, and are 
entitled
> > > to respect.  I have considered them carefully, but I don't fully
> > > share them.  Not agreeing with your views does not bespeak a 
failure
> > > to be self-critical, but just an honest disagreement with your
> > > conclusions.
> > >
> > > I would ask you to consider this: the local Democratic Party
> > > candidates did not speak of national or international issues, 
but
> > > they won, i.e. they received more votes than we did.  Obviously,
> > > their failure to address national and international issues was 
not
> > > fatal to their electoral campaign, but you seem to say that it 
was
> > > fatal or at least injurious as to NBPC.  I must confess that I 
don't
> > > follow the causal chain there.
> > >
> > > I believe that in most local elections, the same is true, i.e. 
that
> > > the victors do not talk about national and international 
issues, but
> > > local issues, i.e. how they will reduce local taxes, increase 
school
> > > test scores, promote responsible development, keep an eye on the
> > > police.  There are exceptions when the local populace has shown 
a
> >pre-
> > > existing interest in national and international events.  E.g.,
> > > running in Edison, one might expect a candidate to weigh in on 
the
> > > U.S. role in the India-Pakistan conflict, or running in Union 
City,
> > > the local candidate might weigh in on the federal government's 
Cuba
> > > embargo policy.
> > >
> > > That is why it would be correct for a New Brunswick candidate to
> > > weigh in on Attorney General John Farmer, Peter Verniero, and on
> > > racial profiling by the state police, or on the use of Vieques, 
PR
> >as
> > > a military training facility by the Navy and Marine Corps.
> > > Specifically, substantial portions of the local population have 
a
> >pre-
> > > existing interest in these national/international issues.  But 
that
> > > candidate had better know and spend most of her time talking 
about
> > > local issues, e.g. the hospital expansion, the abysmal board of 
ed.,
> > > the NBHA's transfer of land worth $4 million to developers and
> > > nonpublic entities without sufficient contractual safeguards.
> > >
> > > Besides staying on-message, it also helps to stay positive, 
without
> > > the regular use of angry rhetoric.  In sum, I don't deny the 
need to
> > > speak about issues beyond NB, but it ought to be targeted to win
> >over
> > > the voters, i.e. the people who will decide whether our 
candidates
> >or
> > > our issues win or lose, and persuade them to flip the lever for 
us
> >or
> > > those we endorse on November 6, 2001 and November 5, 2002.
> > >
> > > That said, where were NBPC's members and friends on Wednesday 
night?
> > > At an anti-war rally (expressing a view shared by a whopping ten
> > > percent of the electorate as measured by reputable polls).  Not 
at
> > > the Housing Authority, meeting with local residents, empathizing
> >with
> > > them, speaking out on their behalf, getting press in the name of
> > > NBPC.  What are the plans of NBPC's members and friends to 
complete
> > > our petition-gathering on the Democracy and Accountability
> > > Ordinance?  How many NBPC members have gotten themselves 
appointed
> >as
> > > poll watchers on election day (46 days away), so we can 'learn 
the
> > > ropes' in preparation for the 2002 run?  Where was the NBPC 
response
> > > to Borraie's acquistion of the bank on Bayard Street?  (See
> > > http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0,2109,449339,00.html  )
> > >
> > > Therein lies the key problem.  The terrorist attacks and the
> >response
> > > of government (including authorizing profiling, new surveillance
> > > powers, etc.) are important issues and are clearly much more 
than
> >the
> > > activist fad of the week.  But we are ignoring our local base to
> > > respond to them.  If we are not self-critical about how we are
> > > ignoring -- even abandoning -- our local platform to that, we 
who
> > > have sworn loyalty to this group have made an even greater 
error.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...>
> >wrote:
> > >  > Flavio,
> > >  > I think taht the recent events have made it clear enough that
> > > while "all politics is
> > >  > local" that doesn't mean that international and national 
events
> >and
> > > issues are not
> > >  > played out locally. All politics is local means that 
everything
> > > that is
> > >  > "international" is local to social groups who are taking 
part, it
> > > only becomes
> > >  > international if we here about it. I think that issues local 
to
> >New
> > > Brunswick still
> > >  > need to be adresssed, at the same tiome the a\whole world is
> > > rapidly changing and we
> > >  > are certainly on teh precipe of disaster, fascism and world 
war.
> > > There is talk of
> > >  > appointing Guilainai to another term in NYC, Racial 
profiling is
> > > now being hailed as a
> > >  > correct response, vigilantism is running rampid. Now is not 
teh
> > > time to stick our
> > >  > heads in the sand. The exclusion of international and 
natioanl
> > > politics in teh
> > >  > People's campaign last effort is now proving to have been a
> >serious
> > > dis-service to the
> > >  > people who wer were trying to organize, to people who we 
might
> >have
> > > given soem of teh
> > >  > ideological tools to understand what is happening in the 
world.
> >We
> > > didn't do that.
> > >  > That was a very serious mistake. It is too bad that the 
campaign
> > > could not realize
> > >  > this and was allowed to nearly dis-intergrate by the refusal 
to
> >be
> > > self-critical.
> > >  >
> > >  > Keith
> > >  >
> > >  > Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> > >  >
> > >  > > --- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., the keyboard of "joseph 
smith"
> > >  > > <can_bush@h...> let loose the following undiluted fountain 
of
> > >  > > foolishness:
> > >  > >
> > >  > > > what does this mean? njfo was split? what does an njfo 
split
> > > have
> > >  > > to do with
> > >  > > > the fact that members of the U&S edit board sabatoged the
> > > paper's
> > >  > > production
> > >  > > > & political line during '00 election?
> > >  > >
> > >  > > Yeah, Joe.  What does it mean?  Why are you holding this 
debate
> > > on an
> > >  > > egroup for New Brunswick progressives?  Please explain to 
me
> > > what's
> > >  > > on the agenda for the NBHA meeting tonight and what your 
group
> >is
> > >  > > doing in preparation for attending and speaking at the 
meeting
> > >  > > tonight.  Please explain to me what's on the agenda for the
> >city
> > >  > > council next week, and what SWORD's position is on the 
zoning
> > >  > > amendment change relating to the bank building near city 
hall
> >that
> > >  > > the developers have recently purchased.
> > >  > >
> > >  > > That's far more interesting to New Brunswick residents than
> >your
> > >  > > doctrinal squabble.
> > >  > >
> > >  > > "All politics is local" - Tip O'Neill, former Speaker of 
the
> > > House.
> > >  > >








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2174
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-29 15:13:06
Subject:castro: 'peaceful solution'
Message:







                     Cuba's Castro calls for "peaceful
                     solution" to terrorism in wake of attack

                     By ANITA SNOW
                     The Associated Press
                     9/29/01 12:54 PM

                     HAVANA (AP) -- Cuban President Fidel Castro suggested 
the United
                     States should steer clear of military retaliation to 
the Sept. 11 terrorist
                     attacks, calling for a U.N.-led response that would not 
risk innocent lives.

                     "A peaceful solution could still be possible," Castro 
told tens of thousands
                     of people at a state-sponsored rally in the central 
Cuban city of Ciego de
                     Avila.

                     The Cuban leader called the attacks on the United 
States "insane" and
                     emphasized that "under no circumstances should those 
responsible for
                     the brutal attacks against the American people be 
allowed to go
                     unpunished -- if they can be identified."

                     But he accused U.S. officials of warmongering and 
insisted the United
                     Nations should be given the leading role in a worldwide 
effort to eradicate
                     terrorism "with total and unanimous support of world 
opinion."

                     "The unanimous shock suffered by all nations of the 
world ... has created
                     exceptional conditions for the eradication of terrorism 
without the need to
                     unleash a useless and perhaps endless war," Castro 
said.

                     "But the main obstacle is that the most notable 
political and military
                     leaders in the United States refuse to listen to any 
word said against the
                     use of weapons and in favor of a truly effective 
solution to the worrisome
                     problem," he added.

                     "One wonders: Why this obstinate course of starting a 
complicated and
                     open ended war? Why are the American leaders showing 
such arrogance
                     when their enormous power gives them the privilege of 
showing some
                     moderation?" Castro said.

                     Castro, whose communist country has been squeezed by 
U.S. sanctions
                     for four decades, spoke a day after the U.N. Security 
Council approved a
                     sweeping U.S.-sponsored resolution requiring all 189 
U.N. member
                     nations to deny money, support and sanctuary to 
terrorists.

                     Cuba is on the list of countries the United States 
accuses of sponsoring
                     terrorism, but Castro said a week ago that "Cuba will 
never be used for
                     terrorist actions against the American people and we 
will do everything
                     within our reach to prevent such actions against that 
people."

                      Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may not be
                                 published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2175
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-29 21:18:37
Subject:Political Prisoners on Lockdown!!
Message:

THE PROLIBERTAD FREEDOM CAMPAIGN RECEIVED THIS SATURDAY NIGHT (Sept. 29th, 
2001) AND IS ASKING THAT ALL OF OUR ALLIES, SUPPORTERS AND FRIENDS TO 
FORWARD THIS FAR AND WIDE.  PLEASE CONTACT HAWK AND ASHCROFT AND DEMAND THAT 
OUR BROTHERS AND SISTER BE RELEASED FROM LOCK DOWN.

For more info. on ProLibertad please contact ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Political prisoners put in isolation, denied contact with their lawyers!

Defend their rights - and ours!

In the wake of the horrific attacks of September 11, Federal authorities 
have
severely restricted the most basic civil rights of a number of political
prisoners.

Political prisoners Philip Berrigan, Sundiata Acoli, Carlos Alberto Torres,
Richard Williams, Jos� Sol�s, Antonio Camacho Negron, Juan Segarra Palmer, 
Tom
Manning, Marilyn Buck and others were put in isolation following the 
September
11 attacks. Philip Berrigan, Tom Manning, and Marilyn Buck have recently 
been
released back into general population. No reasons were given by authorities 
for
this punitive move except in some cases "for their own protection" or "for
investigation." At least some have been held completely incommunicado. 
Marilyn
and Sundiata, and maybe others, were denied access even to their lawyers and
religious advisors.

This is an omen of things to come. In defending the rights of these 
imprisoned
activists, we defend civil liberties for all.

PLEASE CALL, WRITE OR FAX the Attorney General and the Bureau of Prisons at 
the
addresses below. The letters and calls should focus specifically on the
prisoners' right to counsel and getting them back into general population. 
These
people have all been in prison for long terms and had absolutely nothing to 
do
with the events of September 11 -� as the prison authorities well know.

It would also be very helpful to send personal mail to as many political
prisoners as you can, to give them moral support and to let the prisons see 
that
they are not forgotten. Even brief greetings count for a lot. Addresses can 
be
found on this website:�� prisonactivist.org/pps+pows

Addresses:
Kathleen Hawk					        Attorney General John Ashcroft
Director, Federal         Bureau of Prisons			U.S. Department of Justice
320 First St. NW					     950 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
Washington, D.C. 20534				Washington, D.C.
Fax: (202) 514-6620					  Fax: (202) 353-1555
Phone: (202) 307-6300			 	Phone: (202) 514-5331




_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2176
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-30 11:22:46
Subject:Re: [poprogress] September 11 rumors
Message:

Very interesting...Difficult to verify, but I'm sure someone will try, and 
we'll hear about it sooner or later...a good lesson to be learned here.  But 
two addtional items that weren't debunked were:

1. 5 Israeli nationals arrested from a Jersey City (Paterson?) rooftop after 
being found celebrating & videotaping the aftermath. (I heard & read this 
reported many times; & once on network news amidst a dozen snapshots of 
"likely arab suspects", and oops! they forgot to mention the part about them 
being Israelis!!

2. That Bush2 was seen smirking & slapping his knee after having helped 
bring about this chain of events by severely exasperating antagonisms 
between US Imperialism & the oil producing regions of the Middle East; 
first, by illegally siezing power in Nov2000 after running Nader ads in 
Michigan & then by executing a rapid-fire series of unilateral actions--from 
pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol to singlehandedly destroying the ABM 
Treaty & pressing ahead with Missile "Defense" despite international 
condemnation, effectively jumpstarting the arms race & picking up where his 
daddy & RayGun left off...


Hey, who needs sensationalism...I'm sticking to my story.

Matthew


----Original Message Follows----
From: makemba@...


Below is a website which is trying to debunk
some of the alleged rumors floating around on the web
about the September 11 attacks.

Some of the items addressed are
the video tape of the Palestinians
celebrating, another is 4000 Jews
not showing up for work at the WTC,
viruse being sent through the mail etc.

In posting this web address, I am in no
way vouching for its credibility.  This
is an FYI.

Also, as so much is happening at
extremely rapid rates, and in our
quest to understand and to keep
abreast of what is going on around
us,  I would like to offer that when
exchanging info that we
fully document our sources
whenever possible and include
web addresses as well.


A collection of links to pages discussing the various
rumors to come out of the September 11 terrorist
  attack on the United States of America.

The web address is:  www.snopes.com







-----------------------------------
  FREE Monthly Access.  4 cents a minute long distance!  No Kidding!
  <A 
HREF="http://www.worldxchange.com/agent/default.asp?agid=218396">WorldxChange 
Authorized Agent 218396 Home Page</A>


FREE Download!   Superior Marketing Tools & Tactics V1.7
<A 
HREF="http://reports.emarketplacedirect.com/Free.jsp/pages/8584509.html">http://reports.emarketplacedirect.com/Free.jsp/pages/8584509.html</A>


Get a FREE Vacation!  Select from 26 fabulous resort destinations!
<A 
HREF="http://reports.emarketplacedirect.com/Vacation.jsp/pages/8584509.html">Free 
Vacation!</A>



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2177
Sender:"Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-30 16:00:45
Subject:RE: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] September 11 rumors
Message:

Matt, just for clarity, 'Israeli national' does not mean 'Jew' as there are
Israeli nationals who are Muslims and Arabs.  Besides, I'm not sure what the
value of investigating the incident might be, aside from somewhat dubious
propaganda value.  Five citizens of any state are not much of a commentary
on the state itself, unless one is desperate for evidence to prop up one's
preconceived world view.  I'm not implying anything by that, just stating my
opinion.

As for the other story, 4000 Israelis did not work at the World Trade
Center, and over a hundred Israelis who were actually are among the missing.
It would be fairly stupid of the Israeli state apparatus to leave themselves
so open to massive condemnation for the sake of a few thousand lives --
should something leak out, as it likely would have -- even if the statistics
were in their favor.  It smells like Jew demonization to me.

Keith said that if we do not 'investigate these claims' then we will not
know for sure; that we might as well watch CNN uncritically, but I believe
that to be a facile analogy.  We might as well investigate the National
Enquirer's claim that the "CIA thwarted a nuclear attack by terrorists" and
that Prince Charles was "targeted by terrorists" as well.  In any case, my
point is that I'm tempted to dismiss these claims after my rudimentary
analysis, but if someone wants to dig deeper, I would be interested in their
findings.

I would like to encourage anyone who has any interesting articles on this
issue or any other issue and wants to reach a broader audience to post them
on http://discussion.org where we have been engaging in continuous debate
surrounding this issue as well as other policy issues.  We are beginning to
attract a broad audience of fairly conscious people, as well as some whose
consciousness still needs work.  ;)  Also, check out the article entitled
"US begins to silence dissent", for some outrageous quotes from the Bush
administration which would seem to imply that the first ammendment is null
and void.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 3:23 PM
To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
Cc: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com; onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] September 11 rumors


Very interesting...Difficult to verify, but I'm sure someone will try, and
we'll hear about it sooner or later...a good lesson to be learned here.  But
two addtional items that weren't debunked were:

1. 5 Israeli nationals arrested from a Jersey City (Paterson?) rooftop after
being found celebrating & videotaping the aftermath. (I heard & read this
reported many times; & once on network news amidst a dozen snapshots of
"likely arab suspects", and oops! they forgot to mention the part about them
being Israelis!!

2. That Bush2 was seen smirking & slapping his knee after having helped
bring about this chain of events by severely exasperating antagonisms
between US Imperialism & the oil producing regions of the Middle East;
first, by illegally siezing power in Nov2000 after running Nader ads in
Michigan & then by executing a rapid-fire series of unilateral actions--from
pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol to singlehandedly destroying the ABM
Treaty & pressing ahead with Missile "Defense" despite international
condemnation, effectively jumpstarting the arms race & picking up where his
daddy & RayGun left off...


Hey, who needs sensationalism...I'm sticking to my story.

Matthew


----Original Message Follows----
From: makemba@...


Below is a website which is trying to debunk
some of the alleged rumors floating around on the web
about the September 11 attacks.

Some of the items addressed are
the video tape of the Palestinians
celebrating, another is 4000 Jews
not showing up for work at the WTC,
viruse being sent through the mail etc.

In posting this web address, I am in no
way vouching for its credibility.  This
is an FYI.

Also, as so much is happening at
extremely rapid rates, and in our
quest to understand and to keep
abreast of what is going on around
us,  I would like to offer that when
exchanging info that we
fully document our sources
whenever possible and include
web addresses as well.


A collection of links to pages discussing the various
rumors to come out of the September 11 terrorist
  attack on the United States of America.

The web address is:  www.snopes.com







-----------------------------------
  FREE Monthly Access.  4 cents a minute long distance!  No Kidding!
  <A
HREF="http://www.worldxchange.com/agent/default.asp?agid=218396">WorldxChang
e
Authorized Agent 218396 Home Page</A>


FREE Download!   Superior Marketing Tools & Tactics V1.7
<A
HREF="http://reports.emarketplacedirect.com/Free.jsp/pages/8584509.html">htt
p://reports.emarketplacedirect.com/Free.jsp/pages/8584509.html</A>


Get a FREE Vacation!  Select from 26 fabulous resort destinations!
<A
HREF="http://reports.emarketplacedirect.com/Vacation.jsp/pages/8584509.html"
>Free
Vacation!</A>



_________________________________________________________________
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To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2178
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-30 20:44:49
Subject:RE: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] September 11 rumors
Message:

Chris- Did you check out the website below? www.snopes.com
They attempt to debunk many of the rumors, so I thought it fair to send it 
out to sift through things...& my comments were within this context.  I'm 
also intriqued by the reports that US threatened war against Afghanastan 2 
months prior to attacks...comments? -Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Krzysztof S. Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] September 11 rumors
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 16:00:45 -0400

Matt, just for clarity, 'Israeli national' does not mean 'Jew' as there are
Israeli nationals who are Muslims and Arabs.  Besides, I'm not sure what the
value of investigating the incident might be, aside from somewhat dubious
propaganda value.  Five citizens of any state are not much of a commentary
on the state itself, unless one is desperate for evidence to prop up one's
preconceived world view.  I'm not implying anything by that, just stating my
opinion.

As for the other story, 4000 Israelis did not work at the World Trade
Center, and over a hundred Israelis who were actually are among the missing.
It would be fairly stupid of the Israeli state apparatus to leave themselves
so open to massive condemnation for the sake of a few thousand lives --
should something leak out, as it likely would have -- even if the statistics
were in their favor.  It smells like Jew demonization to me.

Keith said that if we do not 'investigate these claims' then we will not
know for sure; that we might as well watch CNN uncritically, but I believe
that to be a facile analogy.  We might as well investigate the National
Enquirer's claim that the "CIA thwarted a nuclear attack by terrorists" and
that Prince Charles was "targeted by terrorists" as well.  In any case, my
point is that I'm tempted to dismiss these claims after my rudimentary
analysis, but if someone wants to dig deeper, I would be interested in their
findings.

I would like to encourage anyone who has any interesting articles on this
issue or any other issue and wants to reach a broader audience to post them
on http://discussion.org where we have been engaging in continuous debate
surrounding this issue as well as other policy issues.  We are beginning to
attract a broad audience of fairly conscious people, as well as some whose
consciousness still needs work.  ;)  Also, check out the article entitled
"US begins to silence dissent", for some outrageous quotes from the Bush
administration which would seem to imply that the first ammendment is null
and void.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Smith [mailto:vivaohio@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 3:23 PM
To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
Cc: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com; onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] September 11 rumors


Very interesting...Difficult to verify, but I'm sure someone will try, and
we'll hear about it sooner or later...a good lesson to be learned here.  But
two addtional items that weren't debunked were:

1. 5 Israeli nationals arrested from a Jersey City (Paterson?) rooftop after
being found celebrating & videotaping the aftermath. (I heard & read this
reported many times; & once on network news amidst a dozen snapshots of
"likely arab suspects", and oops! they forgot to mention the part about them
being Israelis!!

2. That Bush2 was seen smirking & slapping his knee after having helped
bring about this chain of events by severely exasperating antagonisms
between US Imperialism & the oil producing regions of the Middle East;
first, by illegally siezing power in Nov2000 after running Nader ads in
Michigan & then by executing a rapid-fire series of unilateral actions--from
pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol to singlehandedly destroying the ABM
Treaty & pressing ahead with Missile "Defense" despite international
condemnation, effectively jumpstarting the arms race & picking up where his
daddy & RayGun left off...


Hey, who needs sensationalism...I'm sticking to my story.

Matthew


----Original Message Follows----
From: makemba@...


Below is a website which is trying to debunk
some of the alleged rumors floating around on the web
about the September 11 attacks.

Some of the items addressed are
the video tape of the Palestinians
celebrating, another is 4000 Jews
not showing up for work at the WTC,
viruse being sent through the mail etc.

In posting this web address, I am in no
way vouching for its credibility.  This
is an FYI.

Also, as so much is happening at
extremely rapid rates, and in our
quest to understand and to keep
abreast of what is going on around
us,  I would like to offer that when
exchanging info that we
fully document our sources
whenever possible and include
web addresses as well.


A collection of links to pages discussing the various
rumors to come out of the September 11 terrorist
   attack on the United States of America.

The web address is:  www.snopes.com







-----------------------------------
   FREE Monthly Access.  4 cents a minute long distance!  No Kidding!
   <A
HREF="http://www.worldxchange.com/agent/default.asp?agid=218396">WorldxChang
e
Authorized Agent 218396 Home Page</A>


FREE Download!   Superior Marketing Tools & Tactics V1.7
<A
HREF="http://reports.emarketplacedirect.com/Free.jsp/pages/8584509.html">htt
p://reports.emarketplacedirect.com/Free.jsp/pages/8584509.html</A>


Get a FREE Vacation!  Select from 26 fabulous resort destinations!
<A
HREF="http://reports.emarketplacedirect.com/Vacation.jsp/pages/8584509.html"
 >Free
Vacation!</A>



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2179
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-30 20:55:34
Subject:War is Imminent- the Guardian Observer
Message:


�   The Guardian    �





         US and Britain to strike terror camps within days

Attacks limited to targets found by special forces

Ed Vulliamy, Washington, Jason Burke, Peshawar, Peter Beaumont and Paul 
Beaver
Sunday September 30, 2001

Devastating attacks on bases controlled by Osama bin Laden are set to be
launched in the next 48 hours as part of a tightly focused military 
operation
approved by US President George Bush and backed by Britain. The strategy,
which is a victory for pragmatists in both Britain and America, is designed
to kill bin Laden and his forces, and will be launched in tandem with 
strikes
against air and ground forces of the Taliban regime supporting him. The
operation, which British and US sources say could be launched as early as
today, would begin with air and missile strikes to destroy the Taliban's
20-aircraft air force, remove anti-aircraft missile batteries, and destroy
Taliban tanks and other armour. In a clear sign that strikes were imminent,
Bush declared last night, after a meeting with military advisers at Camp
David: 'America will act deliberately and decisively, and the cause of
freedom will prevail.' In a live radio address, he added: 'We did not seek
this conflict, but we will end it. This war will be fought wherever
terrorists hide, or run, or plan. Other victories will be clear to all.' The
aim of the first phase, likely to be launched from aircraft with US and
British ships in the Arabian Sea, would be to remove any threat from the
Taliban for the substantial incursion that would follow. Sources say this
would be in the form of a so-called desant operation - an airborne assault
deep into Taliban-held territory - led by helicopter-carried troops of the 
US
82nd Airborne Division. Sources said that the 101st Air Assault Division has
also been ordered to be ready for action.Also fully mobilised was the 10th
Mountain Division, which would be the main ground force in what Bush called
an upcoming 'guerrilla war' fought by US and British forces. Although
soldiers of the 82nd Airborne Division are trained for low-level parachute
jumps, any assault is likely be made by first abseiling down fixed lines 
from
helicopters. American forces would be supported by US Special Forces -
including US Army Rangers and Green Berets, and by British Special Forces.
British units understood to have been earmarked include mountain warfare
cadres of G-troop, 22 SAS Regiment; the Special Boat Service's Mountain 
Troop
- which is trained for cliff assault and Arctic warfare - and the Mountain
Leaders' section of 4/5 Royal Marine Commando. All are trained and equipped
to operate in mountainous terrain for periods of up to a fortnight without
being resupplied. The US troops are equipped with a specialised version of
the Black Hawk attack helicopter and long range MH-47 Chinooks armed with
rotary cannon. They would also be able to call on support from AC-130
aircraft - nicknamed Puff the Magic Dragon - which can give ground support
with an artillery cannon in its belly. Initial targets earmarked for the air
assault and desant operation include bases controlled by the al-Qaeda around
Kabul, in particular those with usable air strips. Crucial evidence that
links bin Laden to the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington nearly
three weeks ago has been obtained by The Observer . A secret intelligence
dossier compiled by an Arab state with a longstanding interest in bin Laden
last night revealed that at least one of the 19 hijackers was trained in a
camp in Afghanistan run by al-Qaeda and that another is 'close to bin
Laden'.American security sources told The Observer they believe four of the
hijackers had spent time in Afghanistan with the Taliban and possibly with
al-Qaeda. One, Wali Mohamed al-Sherhi, is believed to have been taught urban
warfare and terrorism in al-Farooq training camp in eastern Afghanistan,
close to the Pakistan border. He is thought to have left Afghanistan 18
months ago. The dossier, for the first time, definitely links al-Farooq to
bin Laden, naming four men who are bin Laden aides who it says administer 
and
train those at the camp. Back in Washington, the tight focus of the planned
military operation is a victory for the pragmatists in Bush's cabinet,
notably Secretary of State Colin Powell. Powell has been involved in a 
battle
of wills with hawks gathered around the figure of Deputy Defence Secretary
Paul Wolfowitz, who would like to see US strikes against a wide range of
targets, including Iraq. It also follows words of caution from America's key
ally, Britain. Tony Blair has advised that the only target of military 
action
should be bin Laden's network and, if necessary, the Taliban. The location 
of
the bases was revealed yesterday by Russian intelligence, which has provided
the Pentagon with the most detailed intelligence so far on the network of 
bin
Laden camps. The news came as British sources claimed that the Taliban was
set to flood the west with heroin in an attempt to destabilise its enemies.
US Special Forces were last night already active in Afghanistan, almost
certainly involved in scouting and preparing a secure forward airbase in
territory held by the opposition Northern Alliance.There were claims from
Afghanistan yesterday that a team of five US commandos has been captured by
al-Qaeda. The Qatar-based al-Jezeera television station said al-Qaeda 
claimed
to have captured a unit 'armed with modern weapons and maps of al-Qaeda's
bases' in the south-western Helmand province. The Taliban and the Pentagon
denied the report. US officials, however, confirmed on Friday that special
forces units - possibly from the US Green Berets or the elite Rangers
regiment - had been deployed in Afghanistan on reconnaissance missions. They
hinted that soldiers from the British SAS were also involved. The special
forces had been deployed 'in the last few days', the sources told US
reporters, and were there to gather information on Taliban positions and
strengths, not to search for bin Laden. Sources in Washington said that with
British and American reconnaissance and Special Operations teams already
working on the ground to locate targets with laser-guidance and sensor
systems, US forces were ready to 'go into the first breach' in territory
controlled by al-Qaeda. Planning groups at the Pentagon will now increase
pressure on the White House to expand the action to attack locations in 
Iraq,
Syria and Lebanon, with the elimination of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein as
'a precondition' to defeating terrorism.

News







_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2180
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-09-30 22:12:52
Subject:Fwd: U.S. Foreign Policy teach-in/dialogue
Message:


Hi everyone,

The Student Action Union will be holding a teach-in/dialogue on U.S. Foreign 
Policy throughout the world this Monday night, Oct. 1st (tomorrow), at the 
Livingston Student Center in room 111 at 8:00 pm.  We will be having 
speakers with expertise in different regions of the world. The discussion 
will focus on military involvement, economic sanctions, and media 
representation/public sentiment. The goal of the event is to make 
connections between the issues in the Middle East and U.S. Foreign Policy 
issues throughout the world.  Hope everyone can make it to this event!

-Katie Bourgault, SAU


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2181
Sender:"Rob Bertrand" <alarmguy96@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-01 01:35:16
Subject:Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Message:

I think that at this time, there is a distinct difference between censorship 
and sensitivity when it comes to broadcasting.  This may be difficult to see 
without day-to-day interaction with listeners/viewers from a stations 
perspective.  Are some stations taking it too far?  Absolutely.  Are others 
trying to react reasonably?  I think so.  I also think that this is minor in 
the grand scheme of things.  In coming months we are going to have to pick 
our fights, and trying to rally people around a list of songs that never 
existed as a MANDATE shouldn't be one of them.  My main concern was when 
Keith had made the comment that this was something we could rally the kids 
around -- I don't really think that it is.

**rob**

From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 21:24:42

Thanks for the clarification- but correct me if I'm wrong: You're Clear
Channel corporate strangleholders are the same Clear Channel grass-roots
merely trying to be sensitive?  Sounds to me like censorship.  If you don't
know, fascism has been historically an outgrowth of finance capital in a
state of crisis, ergo---

-Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Rob Bertrand" <alarmguy96@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:58:07

Though this response is a bit late, this list of songs was not banned from
the airwaves.  It was a grass-roots suggestion among the clear channel
program directors.  I work in radio and I have been receiving TONS of info
about this in the trades -- high controversy.  What started out as an effort
to be more sensitive, on one person's part, quickly snowballed into
absurdity.  There was no edict issued from the corporate office, though a
suggestion did emanate from there.  List or no list, listen to your radio --
every station's playlist has changed.  Even at adult contemporary stations
like mine -- people are just trying to be sensitive (though the whole notion
is kind of silly).  Though I am not a supporter of Clear Channel's corporate
stranglehold on radio in America, I did want to set the record straight for
this listserve.  Thanks.

*rob bertrand*


From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 1980 10:21:11 -0500

Can we get the complete list of songs. We should resist this immediately, it
is a good
issue to organize youth around and if we don't resist, Bush will put us on
the fascism
fast track.

Matthew Smith wrote:

   > It's extrordinary that just two weeks ago, U&S was still debating with
   > Greens on whether Bush & Co. were real fascists...I wish we were wrong.
   > Oppose War! & Impeach Bush! -MS
   >
   >  > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/19/arts/music/19POPL.html
   >  >
   >  > September 19, 2001
   >  >
   >  > THE POP LIFE
   >  >
   >  > After the Horror, Radio Stations Pull Some Songs
   >  >
   >  > By NEIL STRAUSS
   >  >
   >  > Clear Channel Communications, the Texas-based company that owns 
about
   >  > 1,170 radio stations nationwide, has circulated a list of 150 songs
   >  > and asked its stations to avoid playing them because of the attacks
   >  > on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
   >  >
   >  > Some listed songs would be insensitive to play right now, such as 
the
   >  > Gap Band's "You Dropped a Bomb on Me" and Soundgarden's "Blow Up the
   >  > Outside World," but other choices, critics and musicians say, are
   >  > less explicable because they have little literal connection to the
   >  > tragedies.
   >  >
   >  > These include "Ticket to Ride" by the Beatles, "On Broadway" by the
   >  > Drifters and "Bennie and the Jets" by Elton John. Even odder, some
   >  > songs on the list are patriotic, like Neil Diamond's "America."
   >  > Others speak of universal optimism, like Louis Armstrong's "What a
   >  > Wonderful World," and others are emotional but hopeful songs that
   >  > could help people grieve, like "Imagine" by John Lennon, "Bridge 
Over
   >  > Troubled Water" by Simon and Garfunkel, "Peace Train" by Cat Stevens
   >  > and "A World Without Love" by Peter and Gordon.
   >  >
   >  > The move by Clear Channel, whose collective broadcasts reach more
   >  > than 110 million listeners in the nation weekly, was voluntary. Many
   >  > stations, including some in the New York area, said they were
   >  > disregarding the list, which was distributed internally.
   >  >
   >  > Another Peter and Gordon song, "I Go to Pieces," made the list. "I
   >  > suppose a song about someone going to pieces could be upsetting if
   >  > someone took it literally," said Peter Asher of Peter and Gordon
   >  > after learning that the group's two songs were on the list. "But 'I
   >  > can't live in a world without love' is a sentiment that's as true in
   >  > crisis as it is in normal times. It's a totally pro-love sentiment
   >  > and could only be helpful right now."
   >  >
   >  > A Clear Channel spokeswoman emphasized that the list was not a
   >  > mandate or order to radio programmers. In a statement, the company
   >  > said the list came not from the corporate offices but from "a
   >  > grass-roots effort that was apparently circulated among program
   >  > directors."
   >  >
   >  > Others in the Clear Channel network, speaking on condition of
   >  > anonymity, told a more complicated story. They said that a smaller
   >  > list of questionable songs was originally generated by the corporate
   >  > office, but an overzealous regional executive began contributing
   >  > suggestions and circulating the list via e-mail, where it continued
   >  > to grow.
   >  >
   >  > Either way, compliance with the list varied from station to station.
   >  > Angela Perelli, the vice president for operations at KYSR (98.7 FM)
   >  > in Los Angeles, said the station was not playing any of the listed
   >  > songs and had previously pulled a couple of the cited songs, 
"Jumper"
   >  > by Third Eye Blind and "Fly" by Sugar Ray, on its own accord. On the
   >  > other hand, Bob Buchmann, the program director and an on-air
   >  > personality at WAXQ-FM (104.3) in Manhattan, said that some songs on
   >  > the list ("American Pie" by Don McLean, "Imagine" and others)
   >  > happened to be among the most-played songs on his station. In the
   >  > meantime, the station decided not to broadcast some songs even 
though
   >  > they did not make the list, such as "When You're Falling," a
   >  > collaboration between Peter Gabriel and Afro-Celt Sound System that
   >  > had fictional lyrics too eerily similar to the truth.
   >  >
   >  > In 1942 the United States government issued a list of suggested
   >  > wartime practices for radio broadcasters. In the interest of 
national
   >  > safety, it advised radio programmers to ban weather forecasts, which
   >  > could help the enemy plan a bombing attack, and to avoid
   >  > man-on-the-street interviews and listener music requests in case the
   >  > interviewee or caller was a spy conveying a coded message to the
   >  > enemy in words or song.
   >  >
   >  > The new list is clearly different. Instead of promoting national
   >  > safety, its intended aim is to ensure national mental health, though
   >  > First Amendment supporters may point to it as the first shadowy
   >  > blacklist in what President Bush says will be a war against
   >  > terrorism. Radio programmers and producers outside of Clear Channel
   >  > said that they found the list bewildering. "There are obviously 
songs
   >  > on there that people could take the wrong way," said Michael Stark, 
a
   >  > freelance producer who works on "The Tom Joyner Morning Show" on the
   >  > ABC Radio Network. "But there are just as many that could be used to
   >  > heal and bring context to the tragedy. It seems from the list that
   >  > they don't want anything that comes close to making waves."
   >  >
   >  > In an odd anomaly on the list, a specific song or songs are 
mentioned
   >  > for each artist except for one: the politically minded rap-rock 
group
   >  > Rage Against the Machine. For this band, the list simply considers
   >  > "all Rage Against the Machine songs" questionable.
   >  >
   >  > Tom Morello, the guitarist in Rage Against the Machine, said via
   >  > e-mail that the band's music "is diametrically opposed to the kind 
of
   >  > horrible violence committed against innocent people" that occurred 
in
   >  > the Sept. 11 attacks, "which we condemn in the strongest possible
   >  > terms."
   >  >
   >  > "If our songs are 'questionable' in any way," he added, "it is that
   >  > they encourage people to question the kind of ignorance that breeds
   >  > intolerance � intolerance which can lead to censorship and the
   >  > extinguishing of our civil liberties, or at its extremes can lead to
   >  > the kind of violence we witnessed" last week.
   >  >
   >  > Nina Crowley, the executive director of the Massachusetts Music
   >  > Industry Coalition, a free-speech organization, worried that this 
was
   >  > just the beginning of suppression of artistic expression and that
   >  > politicians and corporations that have been trying to restrict 
access
   >  > to popular music may expand and perpetuate this list. "President 
Bush
   >  > said to be prepared for a long engagement," she said, "so this could
   >  > potentially continue and grow, and these songs could be removed from
   >  > the public ear for a long time. This list has eliminated songs about
   >  > flying and falling, but when something else happens, do we remove 
all
   >  > the songs about trains and whatever else?"
   >  >
   >  > ------- End of forwarded message -------
   >  >
   >  >      http://savewbai.tao.ca
   >  >
   >  >
   >  >      To unsubscribe from this list
   >  >      email lists@... with: unsubscribe savewbai
   >  >      or visit http://lists.tao.ca
   >
   > __________________________________________________
   > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
   > Donate cash, emergency relief information
   > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
   >
   > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   > FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   >
   > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
   >
   > _________________________________________________________________
   > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
   >
   > To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
   >
   > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
   >
   > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2182
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-01 16:19:46
Subject:Schundler Snakes Police/Fire Unions
Message:

Defeat the Far Right, Green$ Dump Coleman -vote greasy!

Police, firefighters rap Schundler ad

                   The Associated Press

                   October 1, 2001

                   TRENTON -- A campaign commercial by Republican 
gubernatorial candidate Bret Schundler that shows images of rescue workers 
at the World Trade Center has drawn criticism from police and firefighter 
unions.

                   Schundler's campaign on Friday began airing the 
commercial, his first since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the World 
Trade Center and the Pentagon.

                   In the commercial, police and firefighters toil amid the 
smoke and debris of the Twin Towers, and Schundler praises emergency workers 
as an embodiment of courage. The commercial also shows scenes of President 
Bush, bullhorn in hand, announcing his appreciation to firefighters, police 
and other rescue workers.

                   Police and firefighter unions that oppose the former 
Jersey City mayor in his bid for governor call his use of the rescue images 
an insensitive ploy to portray himself as strong on public-safety issues.

                   "You have someone who's attempting to portray, if you 
will, his alliance with police and firemen, when he doesn't have one," 
Thomas P. Canzanella, president of the Professional Firefighters
Association of New Jersey told The New York Times for yesterday's editions.

                   The firefighters union and the Jersey City Police 
Benevolent Association have endorsed Democrat Jim McGreevey. Canzanella 
accused Schundler of cutting about 100 Jersey City firefighter positions.

                   Schundler's campaign manager, Bill Pascoe, told The Times 
the commercial "seeks to bring people together" and that Canzanella's 
criticism comes as a partisan attack because of the union's endorsement of 
McGreevey.

                   Tom Gallagher, another Schundler campaign official, said 
Jersey City firefighter positions were reduced by 30 to 40 jobs through 
attrition, not layoffs.

� 2001, Associated Press
Back to the Newsroom.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2183
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-02 10:45:46
Subject:Political Prisoners on Lockdown!!
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
To: PROLIBERTAD@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [onepeoplesproject] Political Prisoners on Lockdown!!
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 01:21:34

THE PROLIBERTAD FREEDOM CAMPAIGN RECEIVED THIS SATURDAY NIGHT (Sept. 29th,
2001) AND IS ASKING THAT ALL OF OUR ALLIES, SUPPORTERS AND FRIENDS TO
FORWARD THIS FAR AND WIDE.  PLEASE CONTACT HAWK AND ASHCROFT AND DEMAND THAT
OUR BROTHERS AND SISTER BE RELEASED FROM LOCK DOWN.

For more info. on ProLibertad please contact ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Political prisoners put in isolation, denied contact with their lawyers!

Defend their rights - and ours!

In the wake of the horrific attacks of September 11, Federal authorities
have
severely restricted the most basic civil rights of a number of political
prisoners.

Political prisoners Philip Berrigan, Sundiata Acoli, Carlos Alberto Torres,
Richard Williams, Jos� Sol�s, Antonio Camacho Negron, Juan Segarra Palmer,
Tom
Manning, Marilyn Buck and others were put in isolation following the
September
11 attacks. Philip Berrigan, Tom Manning, and Marilyn Buck have recently
been
released back into general population. No reasons were given by authorities
for
this punitive move except in some cases "for their own protection" or "for
investigation." At least some have been held completely incommunicado.
Marilyn
and Sundiata, and maybe others, were denied access even to their lawyers and
religious advisors.

This is an omen of things to come. In defending the rights of these
imprisoned
activists, we defend civil liberties for all.

PLEASE CALL, WRITE OR FAX the Attorney General and the Bureau of Prisons at
the
addresses below. The letters and calls should focus specifically on the
prisoners' right to counsel and getting them back into general population.
These
people have all been in prison for long terms and had absolutely nothing to
do
with the events of September 11 -� as the prison authorities well know.

It would also be very helpful to send personal mail to as many political
prisoners as you can, to give them moral support and to let the prisons see
that
they are not forgotten. Even brief greetings count for a lot. Addresses can
be
found on this website:�� prisonactivist.org/pps+pows

Addresses:
Kathleen Hawk					        Attorney General John Ashcroft
Director, Federal         Bureau of Prisons			U.S. Department of Justice
320 First St. NW					     950 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
Washington, D.C. 20534				Washington, D.C.
Fax: (202) 514-6620					  Fax: (202) 353-1555
Phone: (202) 307-6300			 	Phone: (202) 514-5331




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IF YOU CONTINUE TO THINK AS YOU ALWAYS THOUGHT, YOU WILL CONTINUE TO GET 
WHAT YOU ALWAYS GOT!

VISIT THE ONE PEOPLE'S PROJECT WEBSITE:
http://www.onepeople.mysticalzone.net

ALSO VISIT OUR IRC CHANNEL:
#oprchat at dalnet

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2184
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-02 11:58:56
Subject:Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Message:

ON THE CONTRARY- I THINK THAT THE MOMENT THEY START TALKING ABOUT MAKING 
RACIAL PROFILING THE ACCEPTED NORM FOR POLICE ACTIVITY IS WHEN EVERY RADIO 
STATION SHOULD CONDIDER IT THEIR PATRIOTIC DUTY TO BLAST SPRINGSTEEN'S "41 
BULLETS" ON THE HOUR EVERY HOUR AS A REMINDER OF WHAT THIS PRACTICE DOES TO 
PEOPLE...& THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DEFENDING FREEDOM BY DESTROYING FREEDOM, 
WE OUGHT TO LOOK AT THOSE WHO NEVER HAD FREEDOM RIGHT HERE IN BLESSED 
AMERICA & ASK IF THEIR LACK OF FREEDOM EVER HELPED THEM TO BECOME MORE FREE.


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Rob Bertrand" <alarmguy96@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 05:35:16

I think that at this time, there is a distinct difference between censorship
and sensitivity when it comes to broadcasting.  This may be difficult to see
without day-to-day interaction with listeners/viewers from a stations
perspective.  Are some stations taking it too far?  Absolutely.  Are others
trying to react reasonably?  I think so.  I also think that this is minor in
the grand scheme of things.  In coming months we are going to have to pick
our fights, and trying to rally people around a list of songs that never
existed as a MANDATE shouldn't be one of them.  My main concern was when
Keith had made the comment that this was something we could rally the kids
around -- I don't really think that it is.

**rob**

From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 21:24:42

Thanks for the clarification- but correct me if I'm wrong: You're Clear
Channel corporate strangleholders are the same Clear Channel grass-roots
merely trying to be sensitive?  Sounds to me like censorship.  If you don't
know, fascism has been historically an outgrowth of finance capital in a
state of crisis, ergo---

-Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Rob Bertrand" <alarmguy96@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:58:07

Though this response is a bit late, this list of songs was not banned from
the airwaves.  It was a grass-roots suggestion among the clear channel
program directors.  I work in radio and I have been receiving TONS of info
about this in the trades -- high controversy.  What started out as an effort
to be more sensitive, on one person's part, quickly snowballed into
absurdity.  There was no edict issued from the corporate office, though a
suggestion did emanate from there.  List or no list, listen to your radio --
every station's playlist has changed.  Even at adult contemporary stations
like mine -- people are just trying to be sensitive (though the whole notion
is kind of silly).  Though I am not a supporter of Clear Channel's corporate
stranglehold on radio in America, I did want to set the record straight for
this listserve.  Thanks.

*rob bertrand*


From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 1980 10:21:11 -0500

Can we get the complete list of songs. We should resist this immediately, it
is a good
issue to organize youth around and if we don't resist, Bush will put us on
the fascism
fast track.

Matthew Smith wrote:

    > It's extrordinary that just two weeks ago, U&S was still debating with
    > Greens on whether Bush & Co. were real fascists...I wish we were 
wrong.
    > Oppose War! & Impeach Bush! -MS
    >
    >  > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/19/arts/music/19POPL.html
    >  >
    >  > September 19, 2001
    >  >
    >  > THE POP LIFE
    >  >
    >  > After the Horror, Radio Stations Pull Some Songs
    >  >
    >  > By NEIL STRAUSS
    >  >
    >  > Clear Channel Communications, the Texas-based company that owns
about
    >  > 1,170 radio stations nationwide, has circulated a list of 150 songs
    >  > and asked its stations to avoid playing them because of the attacks
    >  > on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
    >  >
    >  > Some listed songs would be insensitive to play right now, such as
the
    >  > Gap Band's "You Dropped a Bomb on Me" and Soundgarden's "Blow Up 
the
    >  > Outside World," but other choices, critics and musicians say, are
    >  > less explicable because they have little literal connection to the
    >  > tragedies.
    >  >
    >  > These include "Ticket to Ride" by the Beatles, "On Broadway" by the
    >  > Drifters and "Bennie and the Jets" by Elton John. Even odder, some
    >  > songs on the list are patriotic, like Neil Diamond's "America."
    >  > Others speak of universal optimism, like Louis Armstrong's "What a
    >  > Wonderful World," and others are emotional but hopeful songs that
    >  > could help people grieve, like "Imagine" by John Lennon, "Bridge
Over
    >  > Troubled Water" by Simon and Garfunkel, "Peace Train" by Cat 
Stevens
    >  > and "A World Without Love" by Peter and Gordon.
    >  >
    >  > The move by Clear Channel, whose collective broadcasts reach more
    >  > than 110 million listeners in the nation weekly, was voluntary. 
Many
    >  > stations, including some in the New York area, said they were
    >  > disregarding the list, which was distributed internally.
    >  >
    >  > Another Peter and Gordon song, "I Go to Pieces," made the list. "I
    >  > suppose a song about someone going to pieces could be upsetting if
    >  > someone took it literally," said Peter Asher of Peter and Gordon
    >  > after learning that the group's two songs were on the list. "But 'I
    >  > can't live in a world without love' is a sentiment that's as true 
in
    >  > crisis as it is in normal times. It's a totally pro-love sentiment
    >  > and could only be helpful right now."
    >  >
    >  > A Clear Channel spokeswoman emphasized that the list was not a
    >  > mandate or order to radio programmers. In a statement, the company
    >  > said the list came not from the corporate offices but from "a
    >  > grass-roots effort that was apparently circulated among program
    >  > directors."
    >  >
    >  > Others in the Clear Channel network, speaking on condition of
    >  > anonymity, told a more complicated story. They said that a smaller
    >  > list of questionable songs was originally generated by the 
corporate
    >  > office, but an overzealous regional executive began contributing
    >  > suggestions and circulating the list via e-mail, where it continued
    >  > to grow.
    >  >
    >  > Either way, compliance with the list varied from station to 
station.
    >  > Angela Perelli, the vice president for operations at KYSR (98.7 FM)
    >  > in Los Angeles, said the station was not playing any of the listed
    >  > songs and had previously pulled a couple of the cited songs,
"Jumper"
    >  > by Third Eye Blind and "Fly" by Sugar Ray, on its own accord. On 
the
    >  > other hand, Bob Buchmann, the program director and an on-air
    >  > personality at WAXQ-FM (104.3) in Manhattan, said that some songs 
on
    >  > the list ("American Pie" by Don McLean, "Imagine" and others)
    >  > happened to be among the most-played songs on his station. In the
    >  > meantime, the station decided not to broadcast some songs even
though
    >  > they did not make the list, such as "When You're Falling," a
    >  > collaboration between Peter Gabriel and Afro-Celt Sound System that
    >  > had fictional lyrics too eerily similar to the truth.
    >  >
    >  > In 1942 the United States government issued a list of suggested
    >  > wartime practices for radio broadcasters. In the interest of
national
    >  > safety, it advised radio programmers to ban weather forecasts, 
which
    >  > could help the enemy plan a bombing attack, and to avoid
    >  > man-on-the-street interviews and listener music requests in case 
the
    >  > interviewee or caller was a spy conveying a coded message to the
    >  > enemy in words or song.
    >  >
    >  > The new list is clearly different. Instead of promoting national
    >  > safety, its intended aim is to ensure national mental health, 
though
    >  > First Amendment supporters may point to it as the first shadowy
    >  > blacklist in what President Bush says will be a war against
    >  > terrorism. Radio programmers and producers outside of Clear Channel
    >  > said that they found the list bewildering. "There are obviously
songs
    >  > on there that people could take the wrong way," said Michael Stark,
a
    >  > freelance producer who works on "The Tom Joyner Morning Show" on 
the
    >  > ABC Radio Network. "But there are just as many that could be used 
to
    >  > heal and bring context to the tragedy. It seems from the list that
    >  > they don't want anything that comes close to making waves."
    >  >
    >  > In an odd anomaly on the list, a specific song or songs are
mentioned
    >  > for each artist except for one: the politically minded rap-rock
group
    >  > Rage Against the Machine. For this band, the list simply considers
    >  > "all Rage Against the Machine songs" questionable.
    >  >
    >  > Tom Morello, the guitarist in Rage Against the Machine, said via
    >  > e-mail that the band's music "is diametrically opposed to the kind
of
    >  > horrible violence committed against innocent people" that occurred
in
    >  > the Sept. 11 attacks, "which we condemn in the strongest possible
    >  > terms."
    >  >
    >  > "If our songs are 'questionable' in any way," he added, "it is that
    >  > they encourage people to question the kind of ignorance that breeds
    >  > intolerance � intolerance which can lead to censorship and the
    >  > extinguishing of our civil liberties, or at its extremes can lead 
to
    >  > the kind of violence we witnessed" last week.
    >  >
    >  > Nina Crowley, the executive director of the Massachusetts Music
    >  > Industry Coalition, a free-speech organization, worried that this
was
    >  > just the beginning of suppression of artistic expression and that
    >  > politicians and corporations that have been trying to restrict
access
    >  > to popular music may expand and perpetuate this list. "President
Bush
    >  > said to be prepared for a long engagement," she said, "so this 
could
    >  > potentially continue and grow, and these songs could be removed 
from
    >  > the public ear for a long time. This list has eliminated songs 
about
    >  > flying and falling, but when something else happens, do we remove
all
    >  > the songs about trains and whatever else?"
    >  >
    >  > ------- End of forwarded message -------
    >  >
    >  >      http://savewbai.tao.ca
    >  >
    >  >
    >  >      To unsubscribe from this list
    >  >      email lists@... with: unsubscribe savewbai
    >  >      or visit http://lists.tao.ca
    >
    > __________________________________________________
    > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
    > Donate cash, emergency relief information
    > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > FRIENDSWBAINJ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2185
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-02 14:48:39
Subject:Coverage missed the point of activities
Message:

>
>Coverage missed the point of activities
>By: Jeremy Gross
>
>
>10/01/01
>--------------------------
>
>I would like to offer some words of commentary on The Daily Targum�s 
>overall coverage of what might be called dissenting views � at least, views 
>that are clearly in the minority � of our country�s ambiguously defined 
>�War on Terrorism.� The Targum has certainly kept to the standards being 
>maintained by consensus in major American publications, and in television 
>news outlets. The standards in question have the common quality of 
>infantilizing, if not demonizing, dissent. I would thus suggest that they 
>do not merit being observed, certainly not by a campus newspaper, with a 
>by-definition greater degree of independence from economic and political 
>imperatives than MSNBC, the Star-Ledger and so forth. (Fox News aside, 
>which in any other country would be considered some kind of innovative 
>comedy channel.)
>
>Consider the Targum�s coverage of the purportedly anti-war demonstrations 
>this past week on campus, and compare it to most television coverage of 
>this weekend�s similarly themed protests in the nation�s capitol. In both 
>cases, the same questions were asked: How are the police handling the 
>situation? Was it peaceful? What are some of the basic slogans and chants 
>being thrown about? In both cases, there were a few obligatory quips from 
>�the man on the street.� Quite sadly missing in both the Targum and CNN, et 
>al., was any serious attempt to make publicly known the thematic content of 
>those protests. In the Targum, all that was provided was a series of not 
>terribly illustrative one-liners, only one of which was actually taken from 
>a speech at Voorhees Mall (The Daily Targum, Sept. 27). In fact, the march 
>from the Douglass campus to the College Avenue campus was rather incidental 
>to the essence of the protest, which was a series of speeches given on the 
>two campuses.
>
>I have thus said that a publication like the Targum has a responsibility to 
>faithfully cover the content of dissenting opinions on very controversial 
>issues, and in detail. The flipside of this is that there is a 
>responsibility to recognize that on the margins of a certain body of 
>opinion there will indeed be extremists. Such people ought not to be given 
>the chance to obscure the message of more articulate, coherent and credible 
>voices. To do so is to allow a diverse community of opinion to be 
>monolithically lumped under the banner of a few very unrepresentative straw 
>men. Under circumstances so severe as the present, a publication like the 
>Targum has an ethical duty to ensure that very, very easily maligned, yet 
>credible voices not be discredited by the undesired company of extremists 
>masquerading as fellow-travelers. The unwarranted publication of Cliff 
>Smith�s letter last week, weirdly suggesting that George Bush and the CIA 
>planned the World Trade Center attack, is precisely a case of this (The 
>Daily Targum, Sept. 24). It is comparable to MSNBC allowing the protests in 
>Washington to be summarized by a few incessantly replayed clips of 
>anarchists wearing masks and waving red-and-black flags, who actually made 
>up a truly tiny minority of those present in comparison to middle-aged 
>Quakers, liberal clergymen and trade unionists.
>
>Under ideal circumstances, the Targum�s role in presenting important 
>debates on campus and, indeed, in moderating those debates would be 
>minimal. However, the fact remains that many people limit their engagement 
>in politics here at Rutgers to reading and, occasionally, writing into this 
>paper. For these reasons, its editors and reporters have an obligation to 
>be vigilant in observing the norms of open, fair and critical public 
>debate, especially at times when those norms fall into high unpopularity. 
>Ironically, it is those (deeply political) norms that often motivate people 
>to do more than merely read Targum articles, watch the broadcast news, and 
>piously trust that public officials have their best interests at heart.
>
>Jeremy Gross is a Rutgers College senior majoring in political science.
>
>
>
>--------------------------
>Story Source: The Daily Targum
>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   njfo@...
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: njfo-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2186
Sender:"Rob Bertrand" <alarmguy96@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-03 00:24:27
Subject:Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Message:

Matt,

This response is completely off base.  While I do value the dialogue, 
especially about something that I am passionate about (media), this response 
is not based on the current situation at all.  I can't even reply to it.  
Sorry.


From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 15:58:56

ON THE CONTRARY- I THINK THAT THE MOMENT THEY START TALKING ABOUT MAKING
RACIAL PROFILING THE ACCEPTED NORM FOR POLICE ACTIVITY IS WHEN EVERY RADIO
STATION SHOULD CONDIDER IT THEIR PATRIOTIC DUTY TO BLAST SPRINGSTEEN'S "41
BULLETS" ON THE HOUR EVERY HOUR AS A REMINDER OF WHAT THIS PRACTICE DOES TO
PEOPLE...& THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DEFENDING FREEDOM BY DESTROYING FREEDOM,
WE OUGHT TO LOOK AT THOSE WHO NEVER HAD FREEDOM RIGHT HERE IN BLESSED
AMERICA & ASK IF THEIR LACK OF FREEDOM EVER HELPED THEM TO BECOME MORE FREE.


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Rob Bertrand" <alarmguy96@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 05:35:16

I think that at this time, there is a distinct difference between censorship
and sensitivity when it comes to broadcasting.  This may be difficult to see
without day-to-day interaction with listeners/viewers from a stations
perspective.  Are some stations taking it too far?  Absolutely.  Are others
trying to react reasonably?  I think so.  I also think that this is minor in
the grand scheme of things.  In coming months we are going to have to pick
our fights, and trying to rally people around a list of songs that never
existed as a MANDATE shouldn't be one of them.  My main concern was when
Keith had made the comment that this was something we could rally the kids
around -- I don't really think that it is.

**rob**

From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 21:24:42

Thanks for the clarification- but correct me if I'm wrong: You're Clear
Channel corporate strangleholders are the same Clear Channel grass-roots
merely trying to be sensitive?  Sounds to me like censorship.  If you don't
know, fascism has been historically an outgrowth of finance capital in a
state of crisis, ergo---

-Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Rob Bertrand" <alarmguy96@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:58:07

Though this response is a bit late, this list of songs was not banned from
the airwaves.  It was a grass-roots suggestion among the clear channel
program directors.  I work in radio and I have been receiving TONS of info
about this in the trades -- high controversy.  What started out as an effort
to be more sensitive, on one person's part, quickly snowballed into
absurdity.  There was no edict issued from the corporate office, though a
suggestion did emanate from there.  List or no list, listen to your radio --
every station's playlist has changed.  Even at adult contemporary stations
like mine -- people are just trying to be sensitive (though the whole notion
is kind of silly).  Though I am not a supporter of Clear Channel's corporate
stranglehold on radio in America, I did want to set the record straight for
this listserve.  Thanks.

*rob bertrand*


From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] MUSIC BANNED FROM AIRWAVES
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 1980 10:21:11 -0500

Can we get the complete list of songs. We should resist this immediately, it
is a good
issue to organize youth around and if we don't resist, Bush will put us on
the fascism
fast track.

Matthew Smith wrote:

     > It's extrordinary that just two weeks ago, U&S was still debating 
with
     > Greens on whether Bush & Co. were real fascists...I wish we were
wrong.
     > Oppose War! & Impeach Bush! -MS
     >
     >  > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/19/arts/music/19POPL.html
     >  >
     >  > September 19, 2001
     >  >
     >  > THE POP LIFE
     >  >
     >  > After the Horror, Radio Stations Pull Some Songs
     >  >
     >  > By NEIL STRAUSS
     >  >
     >  > Clear Channel Communications, the Texas-based company that owns
about
     >  > 1,170 radio stations nationwide, has circulated a list of 150 
songs
     >  > and asked its stations to avoid playing them because of the 
attacks
     >  > on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
     >  >
     >  > Some listed songs would be insensitive to play right now, such as
the
     >  > Gap Band's "You Dropped a Bomb on Me" and Soundgarden's "Blow Up
the
     >  > Outside World," but other choices, critics and musicians say, are
     >  > less explicable because they have little literal connection to the
     >  > tragedies.
     >  >
     >  > These include "Ticket to Ride" by the Beatles, "On Broadway" by 
the
     >  > Drifters and "Bennie and the Jets" by Elton John. Even odder, some
     >  > songs on the list are patriotic, like Neil Diamond's "America."
     >  > Others speak of universal optimism, like Louis Armstrong's "What a
     >  > Wonderful World," and others are emotional but hopeful songs that
     >  > could help people grieve, like "Imagine" by John Lennon, "Bridge
Over
     >  > Troubled Water" by Simon and Garfunkel, "Peace Train" by Cat
Stevens
     >  > and "A World Without Love" by Peter and Gordon.
     >  >
     >  > The move by Clear Channel, whose collective broadcasts reach more
     >  > than 110 million listeners in the nation weekly, was voluntary.
Many
     >  > stations, including some in the New York area, said they were
     >  > disregarding the list, which was distributed internally.
     >  >
     >  > Another Peter and Gordon song, "I Go to Pieces," made the list. "I
     >  > suppose a song about someone going to pieces could be upsetting if
     >  > someone took it literally," said Peter Asher of Peter and Gordon
     >  > after learning that the group's two songs were on the list. "But 
'I
     >  > can't live in a world without love' is a sentiment that's as true
in
     >  > crisis as it is in normal times. It's a totally pro-love sentiment
     >  > and could only be helpful right now."
     >  >
     >  > A Clear Channel spokeswoman emphasized that the list was not a
     >  > mandate or order to radio programmers. In a statement, the company
     >  > said the list came not from the corporate offices but from "a
     >  > grass-roots effort that was apparently circulated among program
     >  > directors."
     >  >
     >  > Others in the Clear Channel network, speaking on condition of
     >  > anonymity, told a more complicated story. They said that a smaller
     >  > list of questionable songs was originally generated by the
corporate
     >  > office, but an overzealous regional executive began contributing
     >  > suggestions and circulating the list via e-mail, where it 
continued
     >  > to grow.
     >  >
     >  > Either way, compliance with the list varied from station to
station.
     >  > Angela Perelli, the vice president for operations at KYSR (98.7 
FM)
     >  > in Los Angeles, said the station was not playing any of the listed
     >  > songs and had previously pulled a couple of the cited songs,
"Jumper"
     >  > by Third Eye Blind and "Fly" by Sugar Ray, on its own accord. On
the
     >  > other hand, Bob Buchmann, the program director and an on-air
     >  > personality at WAXQ-FM (104.3) in Manhattan, said that some songs
on
     >  > the list ("American Pie" by Don McLean, "Imagine" and others)
     >  > happened to be among the most-played songs on his station. In the
     >  > meantime, the station decided not to broadcast some songs even
though
     >  > they did not make the list, such as "When You're Falling," a
     >  > collaboration between Peter Gabriel and Afro-Celt Sound System 
that
     >  > had fictional lyrics too eerily similar to the truth.
     >  >
     >  > In 1942 the United States government issued a list of suggested
     >  > wartime practices for radio broadcasters. In the interest of
national
     >  > safety, it advised radio programmers to ban weather forecasts,
which
     >  > could help the enemy plan a bombing attack, and to avoid
     >  > man-on-the-street interviews and listener music requests in case
the
     >  > interviewee or caller was a spy conveying a coded message to the
     >  > enemy in words or song.
     >  >
     >  > The new list is clearly different. Instead of promoting national
     >  > safety, its intended aim is to ensure national mental health,
though
     >  > First Amendment supporters may point to it as the first shadowy
     >  > blacklist in what President Bush says will be a war against
     >  > terrorism. Radio programmers and producers outside of Clear 
Channel
     >  > said that they found the list bewildering. "There are obviously
songs
     >  > on there that people could take the wrong way," said Michael 
Stark,
a
     >  > freelance producer who works on "The Tom Joyner Morning Show" on
the
     >  > ABC Radio Network. "But there are just as many that could be used
to
     >  > heal and bring context to the tragedy. It seems from the list that
     >  > they don't want anything that comes close to making waves."
     >  >
     >  > In an odd anomaly on the list, a specific song or songs are
mentioned
     >  > for each artist except for one: the politically minded rap-rock
group
     >  > Rage Against the Machine. For this band, the list simply considers
     >  > "all Rage Against the Machine songs" questionable.
     >  >
     >  > Tom Morello, the guitarist in Rage Against the Machine, said via
     >  > e-mail that the band's music "is diametrically opposed to the kind
of
     >  > horrible violence committed against innocent people" that occurred
in
     >  > the Sept. 11 attacks, "which we condemn in the strongest possible
     >  > terms."
     >  >
     >  > "If our songs are 'questionable' in any way," he added, "it is 
that
     >  > they encourage people to question the kind of ignorance that 
breeds
     >  > intolerance � intolerance which can lead to censorship and the
     >  > extinguishing of our civil liberties, or at its extremes can lead
to
     >  > the kind of violence we witnessed" last week.
     >  >
     >  > Nina Crowley, the executive director of the Massachusetts Music
     >  > Industry Coalition, a free-speech organization, worried that this
was
     >  > just the beginning of suppression of artistic expression and that
     >  > politicians and corporations that have been trying to restrict
access
     >  > to popular music may expand and perpetuate this list. "President
Bush
     >  > said to be prepared for a long engagement," she said, "so this
could
     >  > potentially continue and grow, and these songs could be removed
from
     >  > the public ear for a long time. This list has eliminated songs
about
     >  > flying and falling, but when something else happens, do we remove
all
     >  > the songs about trains and whatever else?"
     >  >
     >  > ------- End of forwarded message -------
     >  >
     >  >      http://savewbai.tao.ca
     >  >
     >  >
     >  >      To unsubscribe from this list
     >  >      email lists@... with: unsubscribe savewbai
     >  >      or visit http://lists.tao.ca
     >
     > __________________________________________________
     > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
     > Donate cash, emergency relief information
     > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
     >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2188
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-03 15:55:03
Subject:white supremacist backlash keeping business down
Message:


               Little India businesses hurt badly after attack

               Published in the Home News Tribune 10/03/01

               By KEN SERRANO
               STAFF WRITER

               Business everywhere slumped after the terrorist attacks of 
Sept. 11, general malaise seemingly the biggest contributor.

               But in Little India, the cluster of mostly South Asian 
businesses along Oak Tree Road in Edison and Iselin, fear also has brought 
down the foot traffic.

               Sayed Ali Zaidi, the Pakistan-born owner of the Ali Baba 
Express restaurant who first came to the United States in 1982, said the 
toll on business has been twofold.

               "First this has happened to our country," he said of the 
attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. "People who came
in were depressed. I was depressed. I didn't feel like working, eating. No 
one did."

               And then came the fear of reprisals. "People were afraid to 
leave their homes," he said.

               Days after the attacks, business was halved, he said. It has 
crept up a bit, with the single men who depend on him for meals
coming back.

               "What I'm really missing right now is family business," he 
said. "And after 9 p.m., nobody is here."

               Business is still down by 25-30 percent, he said Friday.

               The downturn has affected more than just eateries.

               Mohamed Hamoud, who owns Shalimar Halal Meats and Groceries 
on Oak Tree Road, also has felt the sudden downturn.

               "Business has dropped 40 percent," he said Friday. "People 
are afraid to go out."

               Perhaps no one has taken a bigger hit than the year-old 
Afghan Grill on Oak Tree Road. A Home News Tribune restaurant
reviewer gave the place four stars on Aug. 26 and its popularity was on the 
rise. But after the attack, business has plummeted by as much as 90 percent, 
said owners Matinee and Jagmohan Singh.

               About 75 to 80 customers a night showed up on weekends before 
the attacks. Now, they draw between eight and 10, Matinee
Singh said.

               The couple changed the name of the business to the Asian 
Grill a few days after the terrorist strikes, but it hasn't helped, she 
said.

               Added to that, a half-dozen crank calls a day came into the 
restaurant the first few days after Sept. 11.

               The couple also owns the Royal Thai, right next door. Some of 
the old customers from the Afghan Grill have come there, making
up for the loss of business.

               "They come to the Royal Thai and want Afghan food," said 
Matinee Singh, adding that customers apparently fear entering the Grill.

               The effects spread beyond Oak Tree Road.

               Nadir and Gazala Khan also have faced devastating losses. 
They opened their banquet hall and Pakistani restaurant, Shahnawaz Palace on 
Jackson Avenue in Edison, just a few months ago.

               "We were doing fine and then all of a sudden it went dead, 
totally dead," Gazala Khan said. "All the reservations for September were 
canceled, every party and every order. It's really disappointing."

               Aside from the Singhs, most of the business owners 
interviewed said they have not experienced any insults or bias incidents.

               Ken Serrano: (732) 565-7212. E-mail kserrano@...

               from the Home News Tribune

               Published: October 3, 2001

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2189
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-04 11:16:39
Subject:Wartime Opportunists & Fast Track Legislation
Message:

TWO ARTICLES ON THE CURRENT RIGHT-WING MANEUVERING...THE FIRST IS BROAD, THE 
SECOND DEALS WITH 'FAST TRACK' LEGISLATION.

**********************************************************************
The Wartime Opportunists

Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman, AlterNet
October 3, 2001

Corporate interests and their proxies are looking to exploit the September 
11 tragedy to advance a self-serving agenda that has nothing to do with 
national security and everything to do with corporate profits and dangerous 
ideologies.
Fast track and the Free Trade Area of the Americas. A corporate tax cut. Oil 
drilling in Alaska. Star Wars. These are some of the preposterous 
"solutions" and responses to the terror attack offered by corporate 
mouthpieces.
No one has been more shameless in linking their agenda to the terror attack 
than U.S. Trade Representative Robert Zoellick. Writing in The Washington 
Post last week, Zoellick proclaimed that granting fast-track trade 
negotiating authority to the president -- to assist with the ramming through 
Congress of a Free Trade Area of the Americas, designed to expand NAFTA to 
all of the Americas, among other nefarious ends -- was the best way to 
respond to the September 11 tragedy.
"Earlier enemies learned that America is the arsenal of democracy," Zoellick 
wrote, "Today's enemies will learn that America is the economic engine for 
freedom, opportunity and development. To that end, U.S. leadership in 
promoting the international economic and trading system is vital. Trade is 
about more than economic efficiency. It promotes the values at the heart of 
this protracted struggle."
No explanation from Zoellick about how adopting a procedural rule designed 
to limit congressional debate on controversial trade agreements advances the 
democratic and rule-of-law values he says the United States must now 
project.
The administration has identified fast track as one of the handful of 
legislative priorities it hopes to see Congress enact this year.
Getting fast track passed isn't big business's only priority for the 
shrinking legislative calendar. The Fortune 500 has been whimpering since 
George Bush was elected president and top administration officials told the 
business community to silence their demand for corporate tax cuts until 
after passage of the inequality-increasing personal income tax cut.
Even before the September 11 attack, business interests and the anti-tax 
ideologues were increasingly making noise that corporate tax cuts were the 
solution to the coming recession.
Now they are beginning to argue that capital gains tax cuts and corporate 
tax breaks are America's patriotic duty.
In releasing a study purporting to explain how a capital gains cut would 
spur economic growth, the National Taxpayers Union (NTU) touted a capital 
gains tax cut -- a tax break that exclusively benefits the wealthy -- as an 
anti-terrorism initiative. "By reducing the rate at which capital gains are 
taxed, President Bush and Congress could help revitalize the sagging economy 
and bring new revenues to Washington -- decidedly aiding our war against 
terrorism," said NTU director of congressional relations Eric Schlecht.
Not wishing to be outdone, Senator Frank Murkowski, R-Alaska, didn't wait 
long to explain how the terror attack makes it imperative to open up the 
Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). "There is no doubt that at this time 
of national emergency, an expedited energy-security bill must be 
considered," the Alaska senator announced last week. "Opening ANWR will be a 
central element in finally reducing this country's dangerous overdependence 
on unstable foreign sources of energy," he said.
Neither Murkowski nor the oil companies pushing for opening ANWR have ever 
been able to offer a coherent explanation of how using up U.S. oil reserves 
heightens energy security. Security rests in maintaining the reserves. Real 
energy security and independence can only come from renewables (particularly 
solar and wind) -- where the supply is plentiful and infinitely renewing. 
Only a failure of public and private investment leaves the country (and the 
world) unable to harvest renewable energy efficiently.
[Editor's note: Murkowski later backed off his position, but Senator James 
Inhofe, R-Oklahoma, stepped in to support opening up ANWR as a legitimate 
response to the September 11 attacks.]
And, of course, the purveyors of Star Wars couldn't let the opportunity pass 
them by. The Center for Security Policy --the center of a web of defense 
industry-backed think tanks and organizations pushing for a National Missile 
Defense program -- urged President Bush in advance of his address to 
Congress to announce that "this Administration will use every tool at its 
disposal to ensure that the resources and latitude needed to develop and 
deploy missile defenses are made available."
A missile defense system -- even if it overcame the technical obstacles 
which have so far proved insurmountable, after billions spent -- would have 
done nothing to stop the September 11 attack. Nor would it do anything to 
stop any other conceivable terrorist attack on the United States, none of 
which involve might missile delivery systems.
Opportunism and cynical manipulation of tragedy are nothing new in 
Washington. But the proposals to exploit the September 11 tragedy for narrow 
corporate aims mark a new low.
The United States is emerging from a national mourning period. Now is the 
time to proceed with caution and care, as the nation seeks to address 
legitimate security concerns (e.g., airport security) and tend to victims of 
the attack. It is no time to rush through proposals on matters essentially 
unrelated to the attack, especially damaging and foolhardy proposals that 
have been unable to win popular or Congressional support when the public has 
had a chance to consider them dispassionately, and on the merits.
Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman are co-authors of Corporate Predators: 
The Hunt for MegaProfits and the Attack on Democracy (Common Courage Press, 
1999).

******************************************************************
This article was taken from The Nation @
http://www.thenation.com/thebeat/


Trading on Terror: Fast Tracks backers use September 11 to renew free-trade
push    October�3�@�6:47pm


Moving to exploit a shifting
political landscape in the aftermath
of the September 11 terrorist attacks
  on the World Trade Center and the
Pentagon, President Bush's
Congressional point man on free
trade issues has announced that he
will attempt to ram a Fast Track bill
through the Congress as soon as next week.

Bush's demand that Congress grant
him unrestricted "Fast Track" authority
to negotiate a sweeping Free Trade
Area of the Americas appeared to
be in serious political trouble before
September 11.

But, after several weeks of
attempting to equate support
for the trade legislation as a test
  of patriotism, the Bush administration
  and its Congressional allies are
now moving to force a dramatic
confrontation on the issue.

House Ways and Means Committee
chair Bill Thomas, R-Cal., unveiled a
"Trade Promotion Authority" bill
Wednesday afternoon and declared
that he will push for a committee
vote on the legislation Friday.

Though he has yet to receive a go-ahead
  from House Speaker Dennis Hastert,
R-Ill., Thomas says that if the Ways
and Means Committee approves his
bill he wants to see a rapid vote by
the full House.

Bush aides and their Congressional
allies are betting that, if the Thomas
measure is packaged as a component
of Bush's overall response to terrorist
threats and international instability,
they will be able to brow beat even
skeptical Democrats into backing it.

But there are already signs that the
Bush camp is going to have a serious
fight on its hands. The AFL-CIO and
its members unions have geared up
a major push to block action on the
bill.

The labor federation restarting its
toll-free number for Fast Track foes
to call Congress (1-800-393-1082),
the Sierra Club has issues a national
  action alert to its members, and key
Democratic players on trade issues
are voicing loud objections to the
strategy of linking trade with the terrorism fight."

Piggybacking Fast Track onto our nation's
  reawakened patriotic fervor," argued
U.S. Rep. Marcy Kaptur, D-Ohio, should
be called what it is: "shabby political
profiteering."

The fury in Kaptur's words illustrates
why Thomas' move is a high-stakes
gamble. Fast Track remains unpopular
not just with most Democrats but with
many members of his own party.

Opposed by labor, environmental and
  human rights group because it would
eliminate the ability of Congress to
amend or moderate anti-worker,
environmentally risky and undemocratic
  components of trade deals reached by
the Bush administration, Fast Track has
long been the top legislative priority
of multinational corporations and
their lobbying associations.

With Fast Track authority, Bush would
be freed to negotiate a borderless
business zone from South America to
Antarctica -- creating a circumstance
Public Citizen Global Trade Watch
director Lori Wallach has described
as "NAFTA on steroids."

No surprise, then, that the Business
Roundtable was praising Thomas'
move as soon as it was announced.
Seizing on the fact that a handful of
Democrats who have long backed the
corporate free-trade agenda are
backing the Thomas bill, the
Roundtable declared it a "fair
and bipartisan compromise."

But key Democratic players on
trade issues, including some who
have backed free-trade measures
in the past, remain furious as U.S.
Trade Representative Bob Zoellick's
public pronouncements suggesting
that it was a patriotic duty of House
members to give up their ability to
influence trade negotiations.

The ranking Democrat on the Ways
and Means Committee, New York's
Charles Rangel, last week dispatched
a blistering letter in which he
dismissed Zoellick's "Countering
Terrorism With Trade" rhetoric as political
posturing of the worst sort.

"Mr. Zoellick clearly is using the attack
and its aftermath as leverage to
pressure Democrats to support giving
the president Fast Track authority,"
argued Rangel.

"But this war is not about passing Fast
Track trade authority." Teamsters union
President James Hoffa, who has worked
with the administration on several issues
in recent months, now says he is
"outraged that U.S.

Trade Representative Robert Zoellick
and members of Congress
are planning to take advantage of
the September 11 crisis to ram
fast-track trade legislation through
the House...

" And two Democrats with histories
of supporting free-trade measures,
Michigan's Sander Levin and California's
Robert Matsui, joined Rangel last
week in blasting Thomas' labeling of
his latest fast-track proposal as a
"Bipartisan Compromise."

Arguing that Thomas' proposal was
neither "bipartisan" nor a "compromise,"
the trio bluntly declared that, "Bringing
up a Fast Track bill at this time would
disrupt the current bipartisan approach to legislation...

"Despite the force of that language,
foes of Fast Track still worry that
Levin might cut a deal with
Thomas -- as he did during the 2000
debate on granting China permanent
normal trade relations.

But House Minority Leader Richard
Gephardt, D-Mo., and Senate Majority
Leader Tom Daschle, D-SD, have
indicated that they oppose linking
Fast Track to economic stimulus
legislation, and have warned that
bringing up the divisive issue could
wreck the spirit of bipartisanship
that has been seen in Congress
since September 11.

"Just because Americans believe
in eradicating terrorism does not
mean they want to keep exporting
good-paying jobs and undermining
our nation's manufacturing and
agricultural sectors," argues
Kaptur, who says the administration's
Fast Track agenda "is the way to a
weaker American economy and a
growing divide between the
world's rich and poor."






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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2190
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-04 11:48:34
Subject:Terrorism: Theirs & Ours
Message:

An extremely salient insight into the causes behind the WTC Attack...from 
1998! -MS

>
>Terrorism: Theirs and Ours
>By Eqbal Ahmad
>
>(A Presentation at the University of Colorado, Boulder, October 12,
>1998)
>
>Eqbal Ahmad , Professor Emeritus of International Relations and
>Middle Eastern Studies at Hampshire College in Amherst,
>Massachusetts, also served as a managing editor of the quarterly Race
>and Class. A prolific writer, his articles and essays have been
>published in The Nation, Dawn (Pakistan), among several other
>journals throughout the world. He died in 1999.
>
>In the 1930s and 1940s, the Jewish underground in Palestine was
>described a "terrorist." Then new things happened. By 1942, the
>Holocaust was occurring, and a certain liberal sympathy with the
>Jewish people had built up in the Western world. At that point, the
>terrorists of Palestine, who were Zionists, suddenly started to be
>described, by 1944-45, as "freedom fighters." At least two Israeli
>Prime Ministers, including Menachem Begin, have actually, you can
>find in the books and posters with their pictures, saying
>"Terrorists, Reward This Much." The highest reward I have noted so
>far was 100,000 British pounds on the head of Menachem Begin, the
>terrorist. Then from 1969 to 1990 the PLO, the Palestine Liberation
>Organization, occupied the center stage as the terrorist
>organization. Yasir Arafat has been described repeatedly by the great
>sage of American journalism, William Safire of the New York Times, as
>the "Chief of Terrorism."
>
>That"s Yasir Arafat. Now, on September 29, 1998, I was rather amused
>to notice a picture of Yasir Arafat to the right of President Bill
>Clinton. To his left is Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
>Clinton is looking towards Arafat and Arafat is looking literally
>like a meek mouse. Just a few years earlier he used to appear with
>this very menacing look around him, with a gun appearing menacing
>from his belt. You remember those pictures, and you remember the next
>one.
>
>In 1985, President Ronald Reagan received a group of bearded men.
>These bearded men I was writing about in those days in The New Yorker
>, actually did. They were very ferocious-looking bearded men with
>turbans looking like they came from another century. President Reagan
>received them in the White House. After receiving them he spoke to
>the press. He pointed towards them, I'm sure some of you will recall
>that moment, and said, "These are the moral equivalent of America's
>founding fathers". These were the Afghan Mujahiddin. They were at the
>time, guns in hand, battling the Evil Empire. They were the moral
>equivalent of our founding fathers! In August 1998, another American
>President ordered missile strikes from the American navy based in the
>Indian Ocean to kill Osama Bin Laden and his men in the camps in
>Afghanistan. I do not wish to embarrass you with the reminder that
>Mr. Bin Laden, whom fifteen American missiles were fired to hit in
>Afghanistan, was only a few years ago the moral equivalent of George
>Washington and Thomas Jefferson! He got angry over the fact that he
>has been demoted from "Moral Equivalent" of your "Founding Fathers".
>So he is taking out his anger in different ways. I'll come back to
>that subject more seriously in a moment. You see, why I have recalled
>all these stories is to point out to you that the matter of terrorism
>is rather complicated.
>
>Terrorists change. The terrorist of yesterday is the hero of today,
>and the hero of yesterday becomes the terrorist of today. This is a
>serious matter of the constantly changing world of images in which we
>have to keep our heads straight to know what is terrorism and what is
>not. But more importantly, to know what causes it, and how to stop
>it. The next point about our terrorism is that posture of
>inconsistency necessarily evades definition. If you are not going to
>be consistent, you're not going to define. I have examined at least
>twenty official documents on terrorism. Not one defines the word. All
>of them explain it, express it emotively, polemically, to arouse our
>emotions rather than exercise our intelligence. I give you only one
>example, which is representative. October 25, 1984. George Shultz,
>then Secretary of State of the U.S., is speaking at the New York Park
>Avenue Synagogue. It's a long speech on terrorism. In the State
>Department Bulletin of seven single-spaced pages, there is not a
>single definition of terrorism.
>
>What we get is the following: Definition number one: "Terrorism is a
>modern barbarism that we call terrorism." Definition number two is
>even more brilliant: "Terrorism is a form of political violence."
>Aren't you surprised? It is a form of political violence, says George
>Shultz, Secretary of State of the U.S. Number three: "Terrorism is a
>threat to Western civilization." Number four: "Terrorism is a menace
>to Western moral values." Did you notice, does it tell you anything
>other than arouse your emotions? This is typical. They don't define
>terrorism because definitions involve a commitment to analysis,
>comprehension and adherence to some norms of consistency. That's the
>second characteristic of the official literature on terrorism.
>
>The third characteristic is that the absence of definition does not
>prevent officials from being globalistic. We may not define
>terrorism, but it is a menace to the moral values of Western
>civilization. It is a menace also to mankind. It's a menace to good
>order. Therefore, you must stamp it out worldwide. Our reach has to
>be global. You need a global reach to kill it. Anti-terrorist
>policies therefore have to be global. Same speech of George Shultz:
>"There is no question about our ability to use force where and when
>it is needed to counter terrorism." There is no geographical limit.
>On a single day the missiles hit Afghanistan and Sudan. Those two
>countries are 2,300 miles apart, and they were hit by missiles
>belonging to a country roughly 8,000 miles away. Reach is global.
>
>   A fourth characteristic: claims of power are not only globalist they
>are also omniscient. We know where they are; therefore we know where
>to hit. We have the means to know. We have the instruments of
>knowledge. We are omniscient. Shultz: "We know the difference between
>terrorists and freedom fighters, and as we look around, we have no
>trouble telling one from the other."!!!!!! Only Osama Bin Laden
>doesn't know that he was an ally one day and an enemy another. That's
>very confusing for Osama Bin Laden. I'll come back to his story
>towards the end. It's a real story. Five. The official approach
>eschews causation. You don't look at causes of anybody becoming
>terrorist. Cause? What cause? They ask us to be looking, to be
>sympathetic to these people. Another example. The New York Times
>December 18, 1985, reported that the foreign minister of Yugoslavia,
>you remember the days when there was a Yugoslavia, requested the
>Secretary of State of the U.S. to consider the causes of Palestinian
>terrorism. The Secretary of State, George Shultz, and I am quoting
>from the New York Times , "went a bit red in the face. He pounded the
>table and told the visiting foreign minister, there is no connection
>with any cause. Period." Why look for causes?
>
>Number six. The moral revulsion that we must feel against terrorism
>is selective. We are to feel the terror of those groups, which are
>officially disapproved. We are to applaud the terror of those groups
>of whom officials do approve. Hence, President Reagan, "I am a
>contra." He actually said that. We know the contras of Nicaragua were
>anything, by any definition, but terrorists. The media, to move away
>from the officials, heed the dominant view of terrorism. The dominant
>approach also excludes from consideration, more importantly to me,
>the terror of friendly governments. To that question I will return
>because it excused among others the terror of Pinochet (who killed
>one of my closest friends) and Orlando Letelier; and it excused the
>terror of Zia-ul-Haq, who killed many of my friends in Pakistan. All
>I want to tell you is that according to my ignorant calculations, the
>ratio of people killed by the state terror of Zia-ul-Haq, Pinochet,
>Argentinian, Brazilian, Indonesian type, versus the killing of the
>PLO and other terrorist types is literally, conservatively, one to
>one hundred thousand. That's the ratio. History unfortunately
>recognizes and accords visibility to power and not to weakness.
>Therefore, visibility has been accorded historically to dominant
>groups. In our time, the time that began with this day, Columbus Day.
>The time that begins with Columbus Day is a time of extraordinary
>unrecorded holocausts. Great civilizations have been wiped out.
>
>The Mayas, the Incas, the Aztecs, the American Indians, the Canadian
>Indians were all wiped out. Their voices have not been heard, even to
>this day fully. Now they are beginning to be heard, but not fully.
>They are heard, yes, but only when the dominant power suffers, only
>when resistance has a semblance of costing, of exacting a price. When
>a Custer is killed or when a Gordon is besieged. That's when you know
>that they were Indians fighting, Arabs fighting and dying. My last
>point of this section: U.S. policy in the Cold War period has
>sponsored terrorist regimes one after another. Somoza, Batista, all
>kinds of tyrants have been America's friends. You know that. There
>was a reason for that. I or you are not guilty. Nicaragua, contra.
>Afghanistan, mujahiddin. El Salvador, etc. Now the second side.
>You've suffered enough. So suffer more. There ain't much good on the
>other side either. You shouldn't imagine that I have come to praise
>the other side. But keep the balance in mind. Keep the imbalance in
>mind and first ask ourselves, What is terrorism? Our first job should
>be to define the damn thing, name it, give it a description of some
>kind, other than "moral uivalent of founding fathers" or "a moral
>outrage to Western civilization". I will stay with you with Webster's
>Collegiate Dictionary: "Terror is an intense, overpowering fear." He
>uses terrorizing, terrorism, "the use of terrorizing methods of
>governing or resisting a government." This simple definition has one
>great virtue, that of fairness. It's fair. It focuses on the use of
>coercive violence, violence that is used illegally,
>extra-constitutionally, to coerce. And this definition is correct
>because it treats terror for what it is, whether the government or
>private people commit it. Have you noticed something? Motivation is
>left out of it. We're not talking about whether the cause is just or
>unjust. We're talking about consensus, consent, absence of consent,
>legality, absence of legality, constitutionality, absence of
>constitutionality. Why do we keep motives out? Because motives
>differ. Motives differ and make no difference. I have identified in
>my work five types of terrorism. First, state terrorism. Second,
>religious terrorism ; terrorism inspired by religion, Catholics
>killing Protestants, Sunnis killing Shiites, Shiites killing Sunnis,
>God, religion, sacred terror, you can call it if you wish. State,
>church. Crime. Mafia. All kinds of crimes commit terror.
>
>There is pathology. You're pathological. You're sick. You want the
>attention of the whole world. You've got to kill a president. You
>will. You terrorize. You hold up a bus. Fifth, there is political
>terror of the private group; be they Indian, Vietnamese, Algerian,
>Palestinian, Baader-Meinhof, the Red Brigade. Political terror of the
>private group. Oppositional terror. Keep these five in mind. Keep in
>mind one more thing. Sometimes these five can converge on each other.
>You start with protest terror. You go crazy. You become pathological.
>You continue. They converge. State terror can take the form of
>private terror. For example, we're all familiar with the death squads
>in Latin America or in Pakistan. Government has employed private
>people to kill its opponents. It's not quite official. It's
>privatized. Convergence. Or the political terrorist who goes crazy
>and becomes pathological. Or the criminal who joins politics. In
>Afghanistan, in Central America, the CIA employed in its covert
>operations drug pushers. Drugs and guns often go together. Smuggling
>of all things often go together. Of the five types of terror, the
>focus is on only one, the least important in terms of cost to human
>lives and human property [Political Terror of those who want to be
>heard]. The highest cost is state terror. The second highest cost is
>religious terror, although in the twentieth century religious terror
>has, relatively speaking, declined. If you are looking historically,
>massive costs. The next highest cost is crime. Next highest,
>pathology. A Rand Corporation study by Brian Jenkins, for a ten-year
>period up to 1988, showed 50% of terror was committed without any
>political cause at all. No politics. Simply crime and pathology. So
>the focus is on only one, the political terrorist, the PLO, the Bin
>Laden, whoever you want to take. Why do they do it? What makes the
>terrorist tick? I would like to knock them out quickly to you.
>
>First, the need to be heard. Imagine, we are dealing with a minority
>group, the political, private terrorist. First, the need to be heard.
>Normally, and there are exceptions, there is an effort to be heard,
>to get your grievances heard by people. They're not hearing it. A
>minority acts. The majority applauds. The Palestinians, for example,
>the super terrorists of our time, were dispossessed in 1948. From
>1948 to 1968 they went to every court in the world. They knocked at
>every door in the world. They were told that they became dispossessed
>because some radio told them to go away-an Arab radio, which was a
>lie. Nobody was listening to the truth. Finally, they invented a new
>form of terror, literally their invention: the airplane hijacking.
>Between 1968 and 1975 they pulled the world up by its ears. They
>dragged us out and said, Listen, Listen. We listened. We still
>haven't done them justice, but at least we all know. Even the
>Israelis acknowledge. Remember Golda Meir, Prime Minister of Israel,
>saying in 1970, "There are no Palestinians." They do not exist. They
>damn well exist now. W e are cheating them at Oslo. At least there
>are some people to cheat now. We can't just push them out. The need
>to be heard is essential. One motivation there. Mix of anger and
>helplessness produces an urge to strike out. You are angry. You are
>feeling helpless. You want retribution. You want to wreak retributive
>justice. The experience of violence by a stronger party has
>historically turned victims into terrorists. Battered children are
>known to become abusive parents and violent adults. You know that.
>That's what happens to peoples and nations. When they are battered,
>they hit back. State terror very often breeds collective terror. Do
>you recall the fact that the Jews were never terrorists? By and large
>Jews were not known to commit terror except during and after the
>Holocaust. Most studies show that the majority of members of the
>worst terrorist groups in Israel or in Palestine, the Stern and the
>Irgun gangs, were people who were immigrants from the most
>anti-Semitic countries of Eastern Europe and Germany. Similarly, the
>young Shiites of Lebanon or the lestinians from the refugee camps are
>battered people. They become very violent.
>
>The ghettos are violent internally. They become violent externally
>when there is a clear, identifiable external target, an enemy where
>you can say, "Yes, this one did it to me". Then they can strike back.
>Example is a bad thing. Example spreads. There was a highly
>publicized Beirut hijacking of the TWA plane. After that hijacking,
>there were hijacking attempts at nine different American airports.
>Pathological groups or individuals modeling on the others. Even more
>serious are examples set by governments. When governments engage in
>terror, they set very large examples. When they engage in supporting
>terror, they engage in other sets of examples. Absence of
>revolutionary ideology is central to victim terrorism.
>Revolutionaries do not commit unthinking terror. Those of you who are
>familiar with revolutionary theory know the debates, the disputes,
>the quarrels, the fights within revolutionary groups of Europe, the
>fight between anarchists and Marxists, for example. But the Marxists
>have always argued that revolutionary terror, if ever engaged in,
>must be sociologically and psychologically selective. Don't hijack a
>plane. Don't hold hostages. Don't kill children, for God's sake. Have
>you recalled also that the great revolutions, the Chinese, the
>Vietnamese, the Algerian, the Cuban, never engaged in hijacking type
>of terrorism? They did engage in terrorism, but it was highly
>selective, highly sociological, still deplorable, but there was an
>organized, highly limited, selective character to it. So absence of
>revolutionary ideology that begins more or less in the post-World War
>II period has been central to this phenomenon.
>
>My final question is-These conditions have existed for a long time.
>But why then this flurry of private political terrorism? Why now so
>much of it and so visible? The answer is modern technology. You have
>a cause. You can communicate it through radio and television. They
>will all come swarming if you have taken an aircraft and are holding
>150 Americans hostage. They will all hear your cause. You have a
>modern weapon through which you can shoot a mile away. They can't
>reach you. And you have the modern means of communicating. When you
>put together the cause, the instrument of coercion and the instrument
>of communication, politics is made. A new kind of politics becomes
>possible. To this challenge rulers from one country after another
>have been responding with traditional methods. The traditional method
>of shooting it out, whether it's missiles or some other means. The
>Israelis are very proud of it. The Americans are very proud of it.
>The French became very proud of it. Now the Pakistanis are very proud
>of it. The Pakistanis say, "Our commandos are the best." Frankly, it
>won't work.
>
>A central problem of our time are the political minds, rooted in the
>past, and modern times, producing new realities. Therefore in
>conclusion, what is my recommendation to America? Quickly. First,
>avoid extremes of double standards. If you're going to practice
>double standards, you will be paid with double standards. Don't use
>it. Don't condone Israeli terror, Pakistani terror, Nicaraguan
>terror, El Salvadoran terror, on the one hand, and then complain
>about Afghan terror or Palestinian terror. It doesn't work. Try to be
>even-handed. A superpower cannot promote terror in one place and
>reasonably expect to discourage terrorism in another place. It won't
>work in this shrunken world. Do not condone the terror of your
>allies. Condemn them. Fight them. Punish them. Please eschew, avoid
>covert operations and low-intensity warfare. These are breeding
>grounds of terror and drugs. Violence and drugs are bred there. The
>structure of covert operations, I've made a film about it, which has
>been very popular in Europe, called Dealing with the Demon ..
>
>I have shown that wherever covert operations have been, there has
>been the central drug problem. That has been also the center of the
>drug trade. Because the structure of covert operations, Afghanistan,
>Vietnam, Nicaragua, Central America, is very hospitable to drug
>trade. Avoid it. Give it up. It doesn't help. Please focus on causes
>and help ameliorate causes. Try to look at causes and solve problems.
>Do not centrate on military solutions. Do not seek military
>solutions. Terrorism is a political problem. Seek political
>solutions. Diplomacy works. Take the example of the last attack on
>Bin Laden. You don't know what you're attacking. They say they know,
>but they don't know. They were trying to kill Qadaffi. They killed
>his four-year-old daughter. The poor baby hadn't done anything.
>Qadaffi is still alive. They tried to kill Saddam Hussein. They
>killed Laila Bin Attar, a prominent artist, an innocent woman. They
>tried to kill Bin Laden and his men. Not one but twenty-five other
>people died. They tried to destroy a chemical factory in Sudan. Now
>they are admitting that they destroyed an innocent factory, one-half
>of the production of medicine in Sudan has been destroyed, not a
>chemical factory. You don't know. You think you know. Four of your
>missiles fell in Pakistan. One was slightly damaged. Two were totally
>damaged. One was totally intact. For ten years the American
>government has kept an embargo on Pakistan because Pakistan is
>trying, stupidly, to build nuclear weapons and missiles. So we have a
>technology embargo on my country. One of the missiles was intact.
>What do you think a Pakistani official told the Washington Post? He
>said it was a gift from Allah. We wanted U.S. technology. Now we have
>got the technology, and our scientists are examining this missile
>very carefully. It fell into the wrong hands. So don't do that. Look
>for political solutions. Do not look for military solutions. They
>cause more problems than they solve. Please help reinforce,
>strengthen the framework of international law. There was a criminal
>court in Rome. Why didn't they go to it first to get their warrant
>against Bin Laden, if they have some evidence? Get a warrant, then go
>after him. Internationally. Enforce the U.N. Enforce the
>International Court of Justice, this unilateralism makes us look very
>stupid and them relatively smaller. Q&A The question here is that I
>mentioned that I would go somewhat into the story of Bin Laden, the
>Saudi in Afghanistan and didn't do so, could I go into some detail?
>The point about Bin Laden would be roughly the same as the point
>between Sheikh Abdul Rahman, who was accused and convicted of
>encouraging the blowing up of the World Trade Center in New York
>City. The New Yorker did a long story on him. It's the same as that
>of Aimal Kansi, the Pakistani Baluch who was also convicted of the
>murder of two CIA agents.
>
>Let me see if I can be very short on this. Jihad, which has been
>translated a thousand times as "holy war," is not quite just that.
>Jihad is an Arabic word that means, "to struggle." It could be
>struggle by violence or struggle by non-violent means. There are two
>forms, the small jihad and the big jihad. The small jihad involves
>violence. The big jihad involves the struggles with self. Those are
>the concepts. The reason I mention it is that in Islamic history,
>jihad as an international violent phenomenon had disappeared in the
>last four hundred years, for all practical purposes. It was revived
>suddenly with American help in the 1980s. When the Soviet Union
>intervened in Afghanistan, Zia ul-Haq, the military dictator of
>Pakistan, which borders on Afghanistan, saw an opportunity and
>launched a jihad there against godless communism. The U.S. saw a
>God-sent opportunity to mobilize one billion Muslims against what
>Reagan called the Evil Empire. Money started pouring in. CIA agents
>starting going all over the Muslim world recruiting people to fight
>in the great jihad. Bin Laden was one of the early prize recruits. He
>was not only an Arab. He was also a Saudi. He was not only a Saudi.
>He was also a multimillionaire, willing to put his own money into the
>matter. Bin Laden went around recruiting people for the jihad against
>communism. I first met him in 1986. He was recommended to me by an
>American official of whom I do not know whether he was or was not an
>agent. I was talking to him and said, "Who are the Arabs here who
>would be very interesting?" By here I meant in Afghanistan and
>Pakistan He said, "You must meet Osama." I went to see Osama. There
>he was, rich, bringing in recruits from Algeria, from Sudan, from
>Egypt, just like Sheikh Abdul Rahman. This fellow was an ally. He
>remained an ally. He turns at a particular moment. In 1990 the U.S.
>goes into Saudi Arabia with forces. Saudi Arabia is the holy place of
>Muslims, Mecca and Medina. There had never been foreign troops there.
>In 1990, during the Gulf War, they went in, in the name of helping
>Saudi Arabia defeat Saddam Hussein. Osama Bin Laden remained quiet.
>Saddam was defeated, but the American troops stayed on in the land of
>the kaba (the sacred site of Islam in Mecca), foreign troops. He
>wrote letter after letter saying, Why are you here? Get out! You came
>to help but you have stayed on. Finally he started a jihad against
>the other occupiers. His mission is to get American troops out of
>Saudi Arabia. His earlier mission was to get Russian troops out of
>Afghanistan. See what I was saying earlier about covert operations? A
>second point to be made about him is these are tribal people, people
>who are really tribal. Being a millionaire doesn't matter. Their code
>of ethics is tribal. The tribal code of ethics consists of two words:
>loyalty and revenge. You are my friend. You keep your word. I am
>loyal to you. You break your word, I go on my path of revenge. For
>him, America has broken its word. The loyal friend has betrayed. The
>one to whom you swore blood loyalty has betrayed you. They're going
>to go for you. They're going to do a lot more. These are the chickens
>of the Afghanistan war coming home to roost. This is why I said to
>stop covert operations. There is a price attached to those that the
>American people cannot calculate and Kissinger type of people do not
>know, don't have the history to know



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Post ID:2192
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-04 14:29:04
Subject:registering voters
Message:


          Volunteers register voters to help improve transit

          Published in the Home News Tribune 10/04/01

          By JENNIFER MICALE
          STAFF WRITER

          As the train roared to a halt at the Metropark station in Iselin 
yesterday, Amanda Allgor sprang into action.

          "Do you want to register to vote?" the Transit Vote New Jersey 
volunteer asked as commuters emerged from the tunnel under the tracks. She 
flipped over her clipboard to display a sign on its underside, urging 
people, "Register to Vote."

          Most commuters avoided her eyes, and they made a beeline for the 
parking deck. But the determined volunteer wasn''t about to give up and 
quickly walked into the tunnel in hot pursuit of a prospective voter.

          "Amanda always gets her guy," joked fellow volunteer Jennifer 
Murphy.

          Volunteers from the group worked 20 bus and train stations 
throughout the state to register voters and raise awareness about 
transportation issues. Transit Vote is a coalition that includes NJ Citizen 
Action, transportation experts, labor unions and groups for the disabled, 
the environment and senior citizens, all of whom say mass transit is 
underfunded and doesn''t meet the needs of many state residents.

          During the morning rush hour, the group at Metropark had 
registered nearly 100 people, program director Staci Berger said. Tuesday is 
the last day Garden State voters can register for the upcoming election.

          The volunteers placed their registration material on an ironing 
board, which drew curious stares from passers-by. Part of the reason they 
bring it is to attract attention, Berger noted. It didn''t work with one 
woman, who hustled past toting luggage and a shopping bag.

          "Want to register to vote?" Murphy asked.

          "I''m late for the train!" protested the woman, but added that she 
hadn''t registered yet.

          Jennifer Micale: (732) 565-7217. E-mail jmicale@...

          from the Home News Tribune

          Published: October 4, 2001

          Go Back

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Post ID:2193
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-04 14:39:52
Subject:Support Womens' Centers
Message:

RUTGERS UNIVERSITY: RU womens' groups find 'home'

          Published in the Home News Tribune 10/04/01

          By SARAH GREENBLATT
          STAFF WRITER

          Women''s organizations at Rutgers University would like a building 
they can call home, but they''re making do - at least for now - with a room 
of their own.

          Dozens of students gathered yesterday to celebrate this year''s 
reopening of a lounge in the Douglass College Center that has been set aside 
for women''s organizations on campus.

          With its small library and labyrinth of easy chairs, the lounge 
provides campus groups and individual women a haven for research, meetings 
and casual gatherings.

          "It''s a room that''s our own," said Charlotte Kates of the 
Women''s Defense Coalition.

          The lounge has been designated as a temporary women''s center 
since February, giving student groups the meeting place they lacked since 
the Women''s Support and Resource Center was closed in January 2000.

          The resource center was closed to create space for counseling 
offices that had been displaced by a fire. Women''s organizations protested 
the move, contending they needed a permanent sanctuary in which to meet and 
help classmates sort through sensitive matters.

          "There''s definitely a need for a women''s center," Douglass 
sophomore Carolyn Thomas said. "In a month''s time, 1,000 people come in and 
out of here."

          WDC co-president Audrey Allred said campus organizations hope to 
sponsor cultural events and offer self-defense classes this year.

          "We need a permanent center with a full-time director," Allred 
said.

          Rutgers is one of the few large universities that lacks a women''s 
center, WDC co-president Jen Kosakowski said.

          But it is not clear whether Rutgers will establish a permanent 
facility.

          A task force that has studied existing campus resources is 
scheduled to make a recommendation this month on the need for a permanent 
center, said Professor Barbara Callaway, who heads the group.

          The task force could endorse a permanent center or conclude that 
existing services and resources simply need better coordination, Callaway 
said.

          "We hope to decide by mid-month," she said.

          If there is support for a permanent center, she added, the group 
would later recommend what kind of physical and staffing resources would be 
needed.

          Sarah Greenblatt: (732) 565-7205. E-mail sgreenbl@...

          from the Home News Tribune

          Published: October 4, 2001

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Post ID:2194
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-04 22:35:47
Subject:Re: fake playaz
Message:

still no explaination. what's the action? joe
nj anti-war coalition events committee meeting 7:00pm friday
womens center douglas student center


>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>

>I would like to know what this is about.
>I already sd that sectarianism is a form of opportunism. While I am all for 
>drawing clear lines of demarcation, so that there is no mistake about 
>political lines, at the same time this isn't a "game" that a group or 
>anyone else controls. We are talking (I hope) about orgainzing the people 
>to seize power (for their own benifit, not the benifit of their wanna be 
>leaders).
>I think that explainaition is required but the language of "game" implying 
>control is betrays alot. Calling others aents even if you disagree strongly 
>doesn't help it only plays into the divide and conquer strategy of 
>Imperialsim.
>
>
>>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>>
>>i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come out into 
>>the open with an explaination for all. i do not appreciate getting e-mails 
>>like this, but maybe i am misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee 
>>reply all and state his case in an open above board fashion? what game and 
>>who is he calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?
>>
>>joe smith
>>
>>>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>>>To: can_bush@...
>>>Subject: fake playaz
>>>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
>>>
>>get your own game, agents.
>><< message3.txt >>
>


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Post ID:2195
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-04 23:52:19
Subject:Alliance With Saudi And Pakistani Foes Of Modernity
Message:

Another good insight into the ties that bind...
****************************************************


International Herald Tribune
October 1, 2001

A Strange Alliance With Saudi And Pakistani Foes Of Modernity

By William Pfaff, Los Angeles Times Syndicate

PARIS -- The fundamentalism that inspires Osama bin Laden is shared by
the two Muslim states that are America's most
important allies in its war against terrorism. Saudi Arabia is an
absolute monarchy ruled by the Wahhabi religious movement,
which is at the source of modern Islamic fundamentalism. The military
government of Pakistan is heavily under the influence of
the same fundamentalist convictions that animate the Taliban in
Afghanistan.

Osama bin Laden, accused leader of the group responsible for the Sept.
11 terrorist outrages in New York and Washington, is
a Wahhabi who believes that his religion has been betrayed.

This Islamic reform movement originated in Arab resistance to Turkish
rule in the 18th century. In the early 20th century it
overturned the orthodox Hashemite dynasty of Saudi Arabia and took
control of all the Arabian Peninsula. Its leader then was
ibn Saud, and his puritanical and intolerant Wahhabi version of Islam
became and remains the religion of Arabia.

It is officially intolerant of any other religion, enforcing a
fanatically puritanical social order in which women are excluded from
public life and primitive punishments are imposed for violations of
traditional law.

Mr. bin Laden's terrorist campaign is not primarily directed against the
United States, which he expects eventually to collapse
on its own, as a result of what the fundamentalists see as its
decadence. Their aim is to unseat the Saudi Arabian elite that has
permitted an "infidel" United States to install itself in the nation of
the Islamic Holy Places.

This is why the relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia
is so uncomfortable today. Washington is reluctant to
talk about it because America is heavily dependent on Arabian oil, and
the Saudi leadership is silent because it depends on
U.S. protection. Washington has heavy political and military commitments
to Saudi Arabia, while it has turned a half-blind eye
to the Saudis' promotion of their radical version of Islam among the
Taliban in Afghanistan, elsewhere in the Middle East and in
Central Asia and Africa.

The same discomfort exists in the United States' relations with
Pakistan, whose military government has not (at this writing) fully
agreed to Washington's demands for military bases and cooperation
against a Taliban regime that the Pakistan intelligence
services themselves installed in power in Afghanistan.

The source of radical Islam today is Saudi Arabia. So long as Saudi oil
riches subsidize Wahhabi influence and expansion,
fundamentalism will have a firm financial and political base.

Saudi Arabia is, at the same time, under attack from the radical and
violent movement mobilized by the children of the Saudi
elite, such as Mr. bin Laden. He is joined by recruits from an alienated
and often well educated generation of young Muslims
elsewhere, declared enemies both of America and of their own allegedly
corrupted national leaders. When one writes about the
internal complexities in the war against terrorism, and origins of the
terrorist movement, some readers say this amounts to giving
aid and comfort to the enemy by offering an explanation for what they
do. They are thereby humanized.

My own recent columns on the subject have provoked a more hostile
reception, mainly from readers in the United States, than
I have experienced in the past when writing on any subject. These
readers seem not to want Islamic fundamentalist terrorism
placed against a historical and cultural background, presumably because
this constitutes an obstacle to seeing the enemy as
simply a manifestation of evil.

A critic in Chicago asked, "Are you trying to rationalize the murder of
6,000 innocent civilians?" There is a difference in the
language between "explain" and "rationalize," which I would have thought
my readers understood.

There has also been an angry reaction to my argument that Americans must
accept the consequences of U.S. policies that
contributed to bringing us to this crisis.

Nations, like individuals, pay a price for what they have, or have not,
done in the past. The terrorists are taking revenge, in their
minds, for harm done to them and their society by the United States.

In the case of a puritanical and literally reactionary movement, such as
the Wahhabis, the influence of the modern secular world
is itself harmful. The role of the United States as a modernizing force
in global society is, in this worldview, criminal in itself.

American critics of U.S. Middle Eastern policy often say that Washington
is hated because it has supported dictatorial
governments. These Middle Eastern critics hate the United States for the
opposite reason: because it brings secular and liberal
democratic ideas into the region.

America's support for Israel is not a primary issue for the bin Laden
movement. It is a very important factor in opinion
elsewhere in the Middle East, with particularly damaging effect among
pro-democratic groups.

The fundamentalists are concerned with the condition of Islamic society
itself - its integrity, its purity, its future. This is why their
fanaticism is deaf both to America's threats and to reason.

phone: 609-258-5468
fax: 609-258-3661
email: zia@...





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2196
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-05 00:34:18
Subject:"Homeland Defence" Shutting Political Websites Down!
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: Jon Levine <jlevine@...>
Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [poprogress] Office of Homeland Security forces three websites 
offline
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 13:08:28 -0400

Date: 9/30/2001

Three Political Websites Downed After Government "Homeland Security" Threat

IRARADIO.com, the web site which archives all Radio Free Eireann
broadcasts, has been taken down because the web service provider was
threatened with seizure of their assets if they continued to host
"terrorist" radio programs. Travis E. Towle, the Founder and CEO of
Cosmic Entertainment Company, which put up IRARADIO.COM, was told by
their internet service provider, Hypervine, that they had been
"strongly advised" to take the web site down.

A Hypervine representative read Mr. Towle a statement that, under an
Executive Order recently signed by President Bush, the newly created
Office of Homeland Security can seize all assets "without any notice
and/or any real un-reasonable evidence of any company or person that
helps, supports, or does anything that can be called or labeled
terrorism or is found to be connected to terrorism in any way or
means possible." Hypervine is a subsidiary of the New York based
Skynet.

These threats have also caused Cosmic Entertainment to close the web
sites archiving two other WBAI radio programs, "Our Americas" and
"Grandpa Al Lewis Live." "Our Americas," hosted by Mario Murillo, is
an acclaimed news magazine covering Latin America. "Grandpa Al Lewis
Live" features commentary by the actor and political activist who
starred in "The Munsters" and "Car 54 Where Are You."

Radio Free Eireann, which broadcasts Saturday afternoons at 1:30 p.m.
on WBAI 99.5 FM has covered the conflict in Northern Ireland for over
twenty years. Guests have included Bernadette Sands, the sister of
IRA hunger striker Bobby Sands; Rauri O'Bradaigh, the President of
Republican Sinn Fein; Sinn Fein chief negotiator Martin McGuinness
and Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern.

http://slash.autonomedia.org/article.pl?sid=01/09/30/1859212


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Post ID:2197
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-05 00:48:21
Subject:STUDENTS PROMOTING CIVIL RIGHTS (SPCR)
Message:

From Princeton, I think...great info -MAtt


"IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE"- BUT IT IS HAPPENING EVERYWHERE

" We haven't gotten beyond the shock of our own nation being attacked, and
now we're being attacked"- Mandeep Dhillon Singh

Fact:  Between 400 and 500 racially biased crimes have been documented since
September 11. Sikhs alone-a group that is neither Muslim nor Arab- have
reported more than 200 crimes. A substantial number of these attacks have
occurred in areas thought to be more "tolerant" of diversity.  Briefly:
� Los Angeles- September 17th, Adel Karas an Egyptian American is mistaken
for Muslim and is shot point-blank in his store
� Los Angeles- September 14th, a Persian women in a restaurant is jokingly
referred to as an Arab, she is then punched in the face by another 
restaurant
patron
� Los Angeles- September 12th, two Spanish-speaking women at a doctor's
office are attacked by a white women who yells "you foreigners caused all
these problems"
� San Diego-September 13th , A cherry bomb is exploded outside the city's
Islamic Center
� Beverly Hills- September 17th, A woman wearing a Koranic charm is verbally
abused by other customers.  No one in the store offered to help. The owner
instead apologized to the perpetrators
� New York- September 11th, Attar Singh Bhatia, a Sikh, severed injured &
hospitalized after being attacked with a baseball bat
� New York- September 17th, Reported that 2 Pakistanis have been killed in
Coney Island
� Long Island, NY- September 13th, A drunk driver tried to run over a
Pakistani woman, then followed and threatened to kill her for "destroying my
country"
� New Jersey-September 13th,Muslim attendant at a gas station is punched in
the face by a motorist
� Philadelphia-September 14th, An off-duty police officer pulled a gun on a
Pakistani convenience store owner
� Philadelphia- September 15th, Looters pillaged two Arab-American stores
� Chicago-September 12th, A firebomb tossed at an Arab-American community
center
� Chicago-September 13th, 300 marchers rallied against a suburban mosque.
Marchers stated, " I'm proud to be an American and I hate Arabs"

IN THE WAKE OF OKLAHOMA: LEGISLATION THAT VIOLATES CIVIL AND CONSTITUTIONAL
RIGHTS

"People in our community are aware of secret evidence and it is having a
chilling effect on their expressing themselves on issues"- Aly R. 
Abuzaakouk"

The Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act (1996)-Hany Kiareldeen, a
Palestinian immigrant spent over 19 months in prison accused of being an
accomplice to terrorists, with secret anonymous evidence, as part of the
Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Law.   Immigrations and
Naturalization Services was attempting to deport Mr. Kiareldeen, though
neither he nor his lawyers were ever able to see any of the evidence 
detailed
against him.  Secret evidence has been in use since the 1950's and is
currently being used to hold approximately 20 other people of Arab descent.
In response to Kiareldeen's suit, Federal Courts decried the evidence as
unreliable and unconstitutional. One judge stated, "Detention on basis of
secret evidence is a violation of due process".

The Omnibus Counter-Terrorism Act (1995) -Makes it a crime to knowingly 
raise
and contribute funds, donate educational and humanitarian aid to 
"designated,
terrorist, foreign groups". The legislation's definition of terrorist
activity is very broad.  Indeed Nelson Mandela's ANC would have fallen under
the definition.  Yet, 10 of the 12 targeted groups are Palestinian, all of
who engage in social welfare programs, which are seriously jeopardized.

AN ATTACK AGAINST DIVERSITY
It is not just Arab-American and Muslim- Americans who are attacked. For the
"sake of America", many ethnic groups deal with bias crimes everyday.
Briefly:

� April 30th 2000- Richard Baumhammers kills three Asian -Americans, one
African- American, one Jewish-American, and critically wounds one South 
Asian
American to "support the Free Market Party - dedicated to the concerns of
European-Americans."
� August 10th 1999- Buford Furrows kills Joseph Ileto, a Filipino-American
and shoots 70 bullets into a Jewish community center.  He stated that Ileto
looked "Hispanic or Asian" making him a "good target"
� July 4th 1999-Won Joon Koon, a Korean graduate student, and Ricky Byrdson,
an African-American were shot and killed by Benjamin Smith.
� April 5th 1999- Naoki Kamijima, a Japanese-American, was shot to death in
his own store. Killer was looking for " people of certain ethnicities"
� June 18th 1995- Thanh Mai, a Vietnamese- American was attacked by a group
headed by Michael Hallman, calling him a "gook". He died of massive head
trauma. The prosecutor did not file hate crime charges. Hallman was 
convicted
on manslaughter with a sentence of only 2 to 15 years.



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Post ID:2198
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-05 12:32:10
Subject:Womens Defense, Smash Schundler!
Message:

               2 feminist groups back McGreevey

               Published in the Home News Tribune 10/05/01

               By DEBORAH YAFFE
               GANNETT STATE BUREAU

  TRENTON -- The state political affiliates of two leading feminist 
organizations announced yesterday that they are endorsing
Democrat Jim McGreevey in the governor's race, and they branded Republican 
nominee Bret Schundler an extremist for opposing abortion rights.

   "In New Jersey, the choice is clear on what we need to do," Gloria Feldt, 
president of the national Planned Parenthood Action
Fund, said during a Statehouse press conference announcing the local 
affiliate's endorsement. "It's pretty simple: We need to stop Bret 
Schundler."

   The political arms of both Planned Parenthood and the second 
organization, the New Jersey chapter of the National Organization for Women, 
said they plan to promote McGreevey's candidacy by talking with their 
members, organizing get-out-the-vote drives
and possibly running advertisements.

   McGreevey supports abortion rights, while Schundler opposes abortion.

  "These endorsements highlight the stark difference between Jim McGreevey 
and Bret Schundler on an issue that's so important to women," McGreevey 
spokesman Richard McGrath said.

   But Schundler spokesman Bill Guhl said the endorsements would have no 
impact.

   "People who are voting in this election are going to be concerned with 
much more relevant things, like who is going to lower
property taxes and fix our schools, not what a couple of groups that are 
apparently out there to advocate for Democratic candidates are saying," Guhl 
said.

    Between them, the NOW and Planned Parenthood affiliates claim to 
represent 60,000 New Jersey members -- potentially a
substantial number, given that the last two governor's races were each 
decided by about 26,000 votes. But polls suggest that abortion ranks low 
among voters' concerns, well behind such issues as education and taxes.

    Still, support for abortion rights "may matter to swing voters in 
suburbia," said Rider University political scientist David
Rebovich. "It may provide citizens with a cue as to where they think the 
politicians stand on a variety of issues."

    In separate press conferences held hours apart in the same Statehouse 
meeting room, both the NOW and Planned Parenthood
affiliates said they hoped their endorsements, coming less than five weeks 
before Election Day, would refocus voters on issues eclipsed by the Sept. 11 
terrorist attacks.
     Neither group endorsed a gubernatorial candidate in 1997, when 
McGreevey ran against former Gov. Christie Whitman, an
abortion-rights supporter. And both groups oppose requiring teen-age girls 
to notify a parent before getting an abortion, a measure that McGreevey 
supports.

               But both groups said they were galvanized by Schundler's 
candidacy. "This is a special year," said Jeff Brand, the president of
the Planned Parenthood Action Fund of New Jersey. "We have an extreme 
candidate for governor."

               Both groups also insisted their support for McGreevey amounts 
to more than an anyone-but-Schundler position. "We are not
going to endorse someone who does not care about the issues just because 
their opponent is a Neanderthal," said Elizabeth Volz,
the chair of NOW of New Jersey's political action committee.

               But New Jersey Right to Life, the state's leading 
anti-abortion group, which has endorsed Schundler, said the NOW and Planned
Parenthood nods show that McGreevey "will be a tool of the abortion 
industry."

               � copyright 2001 Gannett News Service

               from the Home News Tribune

               Published: October 5, 2001

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Post ID:2199
Sender:TheDailyTargum@...
Post Date/Time:2001-10-05 13:01:36
Subject:Center celebrates semester reopening
Message:

Center celebrates semester reopening
By: Adina Efron, Staff Writer
 


10/04/01
--------------------------

Women in search of a safe space can once again go to the Rutgers University Women�s Center. The Women�s Defense Coalition celebrated the center�s reopening on the third floor of the Douglass College Center Wednesday. About 50 people attended the evening of music and poetry. 

The center closed over the summer, according to WDC co-presidents Audrey Allred and Jen Kosakowski, due to space conflict with a child daycare center and a lack of resources. The center will begin operating on its normal hours on Oct. 14.

In January of 2000, a fire that began at the Sigma Alpha Mu fraternity house on College Avenue burned down the connecting Rutgers College Counseling Center, which then moved to 17 Senior St. � the home of the Women�s Support and Resource Center. The space shortage forced the Women�s Center out.

The WDC formed that spring in response to the dislocation of the Women�s Support and Resource Center. It held rallies, marches and teach-ins to raise awareness of the need for a permanent safe space for women. Allred, a Douglass College senior, said the WDC sent petitions to the University administration and camped out on the steps of Brower Commons on the College Avenue campus �to symbolize that women have no space at the University.� Through these efforts, the WDC secured its current location, which officially opened in February of 2001.

Allred said Wednesday night�s event served as a �celebration of women�s space and to let the University community know that we are, in fact, open.�

In a room the size of a large bedroom, the center plans to provide referral information, house a book and magazine library, present lectures and allow women to network and discuss issues affecting their lives. The WDC ultimately hopes to develop an  �established and thorough library in a permanent women�s center,� Douglass College junior Kosakowski said.

�Having a physical space legitimizes something � in this case, a place for the women�s movement to foment,� Allred said.

Since opening last spring, student organizations such as Lesbian and Bisexual Womyn in Action and Feminist Majority Leadership Alliance have held meetings at the center. Take Back the Night, an annual march protesting violence against women, also operates out of the third-floor room. 

In order to keep the center open six to eight hours a day as planned, the WDC must increase the number of trained volunteers from 30 to about 60. 

--------------------------
Story Source: The Daily Targum








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2200
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-06 14:37:54
Subject:Re: you still co-signing this?
Message:

you knew this? i didnt.

yr 'trend' reps
had u&s (beatbush!) in
they computer, in nwk,
where it sat, for 1 yr.
(blamed on 'njfo majority')

while they were registered republicans,
running as for local office,
elected frank bright to nb gop(!) chair,
&to peoples' campaign steering committee,
result in bright appointed, by nj dept of community affairs,
to nb housing authority over resident rep.
(as projects are demolished,
200 families w/ no replacement housing...)
&is 1st gop in nb to hold office.
(who else cd claim 2000 nb gop votes?)

nevermind the silence on bush.

which we challenged last may, 2000
(also date of last u&s...)
&were expelled for by yr 'trend' reps.
(same who expelled us from u&s study group
&njfo in '96 for opposing 'boycott!')
who also put that we were 'paid by lynch's nb democrats'
to sabotage campaign,
finally bringing physical threats &only
spun around after(!) curtis warren openly
admitted being republican (since '88!).
after bushcoup, &tc.

'unclear' to you maybe
less 'unclear' to those in nb public housing
who have a bushboy deciding their residence
(next door to soaries)
thx to yr 'trend' reps, who still
defend they moves.

you can drop archiebunker jokes all day
&hide argument behind sudden sensitivity(!)
to vulgarity.

the real vulgarity is perpetrated on nb peoples
by yo peoples

unclear?
what?

'still takin it personal...'


>From: Amirib@...
>To: cliffsmith69@...
>Subject: Re: you still co-signing this?
>Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 18:22:20 EDT
>
>unclear


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Post ID:2201
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-06 14:51:54
Subject:castro demands justice for anti-cuba terror
Message:













                     Castro expresses sympathy for U.S.
                     victims of terrorism, demands justice in
                     1976 bombing

                     By ANITA SNOW
                     The Associated Press
                     10/6/01 1:33 PM

                     HAVANA (AP) -- Cuban President Fidel Castro gathered 
hundreds of
                     thousands of people Saturday to demand justice in the 
bombing of a
                     Cuban airliner 25 years ago, saying punishing the 
suspects in the 1976
                     attack would be part of the international struggle 
against terrorism.

                     The island nation, which has vowed to aid U.N. 
anti-terrorism efforts
                     following the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States, 
has the "full moral
                     authority and right to demand an end to terrorism 
against Cuba," Castro
                     told the huge crowd assembled to remember the victims 
of the airliner
                     bombing.

                     The communist leader contrasted the international 
reaction to the Cold
                     War-era airliner bombing with the response to the Sept. 
11 attacks, which
                     destroyed the World Trade Center, damaged the Pentagon 
and killed
                     more than 5,000 people.

                     "The death of 73 people aboard a Cuban jetliner blown 
up in mid-flight
                     would be the same to the U.S. people as if seven 
American jetliners, with
                     over 300 passengers each, had been destroyed in full 
flight the same
                     day by a terrorist conspiracy," Castro said.

                     And yet, he said, "Nobody, except for a group of 
friendly personalities
                     and institutions, shared our pain and sorrow. There was 
no upheaval
                     around the world, no acute political crises, no United 
Nations meetings,
                     not the imminent threat of war."

                     Since the Sept. 11 attacks, Cuba has renewed demands 
for prosecution
                     of two Cuban exiles it blames for the bombing of the 
Cubana de Aviacion
                     jet, which exploded over the Caribbean off Barbados on 
Oct. 6, 1976.

                     One of the men, Luis Posada Carriles, escaped from 
prison in Venezuela
                     before his case was tried and is now behind held in 
Panama on charges
                     he plotted to kill Castro during a visit there last 
year.

                     The other, Orlando Bosch, spent 11 years behind bars in 
Venezuela
                     during a lengthy judicial process that ended with his 
acquittal. He now
                     lives in Miami.

                     At Saturday's rally, state television showed a massive 
sea of cheering
                     people spreading across the broad Havana plaza that is 
home to the
                     headquarters of the government and the Communist Party. 
The
                     government estimated the crowd at 1 million, but that 
could not be
                     verified.

                     Participants wore red T-shirts with the slogan "Justice 
for the Martyrs" -- a
                     reference to the bombing victims, known in Cuba as the 
Martyrs of
                     Barbados.

                     In a 45-minute speech, Castro said the gathering was 
held also to
                     "express our solidarity with the thousands of innocent 
people who died in
                     New York and Washington."

                     "We are here to condemn the brutal crime committed 
against them while
                     supporting the search for ways conducive to a real and 
lasting eradication
                     of terrorism," he said.

                     But he stressed Cuba's opposition to military 
retaliation that would
                     "develop a bloody and open-ended war." Last week, 
Castro called for a
                     "peaceful solution" to terrorism.

                      Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may not be
                                 published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.

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Post ID:2202
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-07 18:05:42
Subject:Marxism on anarchism:
Message:

"In its struggle for power the proletariat has no other weapon but 
organization.  Disunited by the rule of anarchic competition in the 
bourgeois world, ground down by forced labour for capital, constantly thrust 
back to the "lower depths" of utter destitution, savagery, and degeneration, 
the proletariat can, and inevitably will, become an invincible force only 
through its ideological unification on the principles of Marxism being 
reinforced by the material unity of organization, which wields millions of 
toilers into an army of the working class.  Neither the senile rule of the 
Russian autocracy nor the senescent rule of international capital will be 
able to withstand this army.  It will more and more firmly close its ranks, 
in spite of all zigzags and backward steps, in spite of the opportunist 
phrasemongering of the Girondists of present-day Social-Democracy, in spite 
of the self-satisfied exaltation of the retrograde circle spirit, and in 
spite of the tinsel and fuss of "intellectual" anarchism."

Lenin, "One step forward, two steps back", 1904


"Had the autonomists [anarchists -cs] contented themselves with saying that 
the social organization of the future would allow authority only within the 
bounds which the conditions of production make inevitable, one could have 
come to terms with them.  But they are blind to all facts that make 
authority necessarty and they passionately fight the word.

"Why do the anti-authoritarians not confine themselves to crying out against 
political authority, the state?  All socialists are agreed that the state, 
and with it political authority, will disappear as a result of the coming 
social revolution, that is, that public functions will lose their political 
character and become mere administrative functions of watching over social 
interests.  But the anti-authoritarians demand that the political state be 
abolished at one stroke, even before the social conditions that gave birth 
to it have been destroyed.  They demand that the first act of the social 
revolution shall be the abolition of authority.

"Have these gentlemen ever seen a revolution?  A revolution is certainly the 
most authoritarian thing there is; it is an act whereby one part of the 
population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets 
and cannon, all of which are highly authoritarian means.  And the victorious 
party must maintain its rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire 
in the reactionaries.  Would the Paris Commune have lasted more than a day 
if it had not used the authority of the armed people against the 
bourgeoisie?  Cannot we, on the contrary, blame it for having made too 
little use of that authority?  Therefore, one of two things: either the 
anti-authoritarians don't know what thery are talking about, in which case 
they are creating nothing but confusion.  Or they do know, and in that case 
they are betraying the cause of the proletariat.  In either case they serve 
only reaction."

Engels, 1873


"The anarchists had tried to claim the Paris Commune as their "own," so to 
say, as a corroboration of their doctrine; and they completely misunderstood 
its lessons and Marx's analysis of these lessons.  Anarchism has given 
nothing even approximating true answers to the concrete political questions: 
Must the old state machine be smashed?  And what should be put in its 
place?"


"The distinction between the Marxists and the anarchists is this:
(1) The former, while aiming at the complete abolition of the state, 
recognize that this aim can only be achieved after classes have been 
abolished by the socialist revolution, as the result of the establishment of 
socialism, which leads to the withering away of the state.  The latter want 
to abolish the state completely overnight, not understanding the conditions 
under which the state can be abolished.
(2) The former recognize that after the proletariat has won political power 
it must completely destroy the old state machine and replace it by a new one 
consisting of an organization of the armed workers, after the type of the 
Commune.  The latter, while insisting on the destruction of the state 
machine, have a very vague idea of what the proletariat will put in its 
place and how it will use its revolutionary power.  The anarchists even deny 
that the revolutionary proletariat should use the state power, they reject 
its revolutionary dictatorship.
(3) The former demand that the proletariat be trained for revolution by 
utilising the present state.  The anarchists reject this."

Lenin, "The state and revolution", 1917


"But it is quite absurd to think that a bourgeois revolution does not at all 
express proletarian interests.  This absurd idea boils down either to the 
hoary Narodnik theory that a bourgeois revolution runs counter to the 
interests of the proletariat, and that therefore, we do not need bourgeois 
political liberty; or to anarchism which denies any participation of the 
proletariat in bourgeois politics, in a bourgeois revolution and in 
bourgeois parliamentarism."

Lenin, "Two tactics of social-democracy", 1905


"When it came into being in 1903, Bolshevism took over the tradition of a 
ruthless struggle against petty-bourgeois, semi-anarchist (or 
dilettante-anarchist) revolutionism, a tradition which had always existed in 
revolutionary Social-Democracy and had become particularly strong in our 
country during the years 1900-1903, when the foundations for a mass party of 
the revolutionary proletariat were being laid in Russia.  Bolshevism took 
over and carried on the struggle against a party which, more than any other, 
expressed the tendencies of petty-bourgeois revolutionism, namely, the 
"Socialist-Revolutionary" Party, and waged that struggle on three main 
issues.  First, that party, which rejected Marxism, stubbornly refused (or, 
it might be more correct to say: was unable) to understand the need for a 
strictly objective appraisal of the class forces and their alignment, before 
taking any political action.  Second, this party considered itself 
particularly "revolutionary," or "Left," because of its recognition of 
individual terrorism, assassination--something that we Marxists emphatically 
rejected.  It was, of course onlu on grounds of expediency that we rejected 
individual terrorism, whereas people who were capable of condemning "on 
principle" the terror of the Great French Revolution, or, in general, the 
terror employed by a victorious revolutionary party which is besieged by the 
bourgeoisie of the whole world, were ridiculed and laughed to scorn by 
Plekhanov in 1900-1903, when he was a Marxist and a revolutionary.  Third 
the "Socialist-Revolutionaries" thought it very "Left" to sneer at the 
comparatively insignificant opportunist sins of the German Social-Democratic 
Party, while they themselves imitated the extreme opportunists of that 
party, for example, on the agrarian question, or on the question of the 
dictatorship of the proletariat."

Lenin, "'Left-wing' communism", 1920




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Post ID:2203
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-08 15:29:12
Subject:Fwd: IDENTITY CARD, poem
Message:

PASS IT ON...

(Msg from Tracey L):
Hey,
THe first time I heard Identity Card was at a memorial service for Bill 
Kuntzler. The poet is Mahmoud Darwish, who I believe is Palestinian, thought 
you would enjoy.

                        Identity Card


                           Record!
                         I am an Arab
            And my identity card is number fifty thousand
                      I have eight children
               And the ninth is coming after a summer
                     Are you  angry?

                           Record!
                         I am an Arab
              Employed with fellow workers at a quarry
                      I have eight children
                        I get them bread
                      Garments and books
                        from the rocks..
              I do not supplicate charity at your doors
        Nor do I belittle myself at the footsteps of your chamber
                   Are you angry?

                           Record!
                         I am an Arab
                   I have a name without a title
                      Patient in a country
                    Where people are enraged
                          My roots
              Were entrenched before the birth of time
                And before the opening of the eras
                Before the pines, and the olive trees
                     And before grass grew

           My father.. descends form the family of the plow
                   Not from a privileged class
                 And my grandfather..was a farmer
                 Neither well-bred, nor well-born!
                  Teaches me the pride of the sun
                  Before teaching me how to read
               And my house is like a watchman�s hut
                   Made of branches and cane
                 Are you satisfied with my status?
                   I have a name without a title!

                           Record!
                         I am an Arab
            You have stolen the orchards of my ancestors
                  And the land which I cultivated
                     Along with my children
                   And you left nothing for us
                     Except for these rocks..
                         And I here
                    soon you will take the rocks.
                                Therefor!
                Record on the top of the first page:
                      I do not hate people
                       Nor do I encroach
                     But if I become hungry
                The usurper�s flesh will be my food
                           Beware..
                           Beware..
                        Of my hunger
                        And my anger!



                          Passport



              They did not recognize me in the shadows
              That suck away my color in this Passport
               And to them my wound was an exhibit
            For a tourist Who loves to collect photographs
                   They did not recognize me,
                      Ah . . . Don�t leave
               The palm of my hand without the sun
                  Because the trees recognize me
                Don�t leave me pale like the moon!

                All the birds that followed my palm
                 To the door of the distant airport
                       All the wheatfields
                        All the prisons
                    All the white tombstones
                    All the barbed Boundaries
                   All the waving handkerchiefs
                         All the eyes
                         were with me,
              But they dropped them from my passport

                 Stripped of my name and identity?
              On soil I nourished with my own hands?
                      Today Job cried out
                        Filling the sky:
               Don�t make and example of me again!
                    Oh, gentlemen, Prophets,
                Don�t ask the trees for their names
              Don�t ask the valleys who their mother is
             From my forehead bursts the sward of light
           And from my hand springs the water of the river
             All the hearts of the people are my identity
                   So take away my passport!



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Post ID:2204
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-08 18:46:23
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] URGENT- Senate Anti-Terrorism Bill -- ACT NOW
Message:

Subject: [poprogress] URGENT- Senate Anti-Terrorism Bill -- ACT NOW
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 15:42:03 EDT




http://www.aclu.org/safeandfree/
 > ACLU Calls New Senate Terrorism Bill Significantly Worse; Says Long-Term
 > Impact on Freedom Cannot Be Justified
 > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
 > Friday, October 5, 2001
 > Spotlight: Ten Points Statement of Principles: In Defense of Freedom at a
 > Time of Crisis
 >
 > WASHINGTON -- The American Civil Liberties Union today urged the Senate 
to
 > reject the newest version of proposed anti-terrorism legislation, saying
 > that it poses significantly more danger to civil liberties than the 
measure
 > adopted earlier this week by the House Judiciary Committee.
 >
 > "The new Senate legislation goes far beyond any powers conceivably 
necessary
 > to fight terrorism in the United States," said Laura W. Murphy, Director 
of
 > the ACLU's Washington National Office. "The long-term impact on basic
 > freedoms in this legislation cannot be justified."
 >
 > "For immigrants," added Gregory T. Nojeim, Associate Director of the 
ACLU's
 > Washington Office, "this bill is a dramatic setback. It is unconscionable 
to
 > detain immigrants who prove in a court of law that they are not 
terrorists
 > and who win their deportation cases."
 >
 > Among the bill's most troubling provisions, the ACLU said, are measures 
that
 > would:
 >
 > Allow for indefinite detention of non-citizens, even if they have
 > successfully challenged a government effort to deport them.
 >
 > Minimize judicial supervision of federal telephone and Internet 
surveillance
 > by law enforcement authorities.
 >
 > Expand the ability of the government to conduct secret searches.
 >
 > Give the Attorney General and the Secretary of State the power to 
designate
 > domestic groups as terrorist organizations and block any non-citizen who
 > belongs to them from entering the country. Under this provision, paying
 > membership dues to such an organization would become a deportable 
offense.
 >
 > Grant the FBI broad access to sensitive business records about 
individuals
 > without having to show evidence of a crime.
 >
 > Lead to large-scale investigations of American citizens for 
"intelligence"
 > purposes.
 > The new legislation, which has been significantly rewritten in the last 
24
 > hours, was given to Senate offices today. Senate leaders said they are
 > planning to by-pass Judiciary Committee hearings and mark-up; a floor 
vote
 > in the Senate could happen as early as next Wednesday.
 >
 > "In its rush to legislate, the Senate is abandoning its responsibility to 
be
 > deliberative and careful," Murphy said. "We urge Senators to insure that 
any
 > legislation maximizes our security while minimizing the impact on our 
civil
 > liberties."
 >
 > Following are highlights of the civil liberties implications of the
 > compromise legislation introduced by Majority Leader Tom Daschle, D-SD,
 > Minority Leader Trent Lott, R-MS, Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick
 > Leahy, D-VT, and ranking minority member Orrin Hatch, R-UT. Senators Bob
 > Graham, D-FL, and Paul Sarbanes, D-MD, are also original co-sponsors.
 >
 > Immigration
 >
 > The ACLU said that the new bill would confer new and unprecedented 
detention
 > authority on the Attorney General based on vague and unspecified 
predictions
 > of threats to the national security.
 >
 > Specifically, the ACLU said that the new legislation would permit the
 > indefinite administrative detention of non-citizens -- including those 
who
 > win their deportation cases -- based merely on the Attorney General's
 > certification that he has "reasonable grounds to believe" the non-citizen
 > endangers national security. In addition, non-citizens ordered removed to
 > countries that would not accept them could also be indefinitely detained.
 >
 > "Very few countries will agree to take back one of their citizens if the
 > United States has labeled him a terrorist," Nojeim said. "Even though it
 > says it has compromised on indefinite detention, under this legislation, 
the
 > Administration still achieves the same result of being able to imprison
 > indefinitely someone who has never been convicted of a crime."
 >
 > In addition, the ACLU said that the legislation provides for no 
meaningful
 > review of the Attorney General's certification because the standards for 
the
 > certification are so vague that judges would have no yardstick for which 
to
 > judge the appropriateness of the detention. The review could be had only
 > once, not years later while the non-citizen remained detained based on a
 > stale determination by the Attorney General.
 >
 > Wiretapping and Intelligence Surveillance
 >
 > On the question of wiretapping and intelligence surveillance, the ACLU 
said
 > that the wiretapping proposals in the Senate bill continue to sound two
 > themes: they minimize the role of a judge in ensuring that law 
enforcement
 > wiretapping is conducted legally and with proper justification, and they
 > permit use of intelligence investigative authority to by-pass normal
 > criminal procedures that protect privacy.
 >
 > The ACLU said that it was specifically concerned about the following
 > provisions of the new Senate legislation:
 >
 > 1. The bill would allow the government to use its intelligence gathering
 > power to circumvent the standard that must be met for criminal wiretaps.
 > Currently FISA surveillance, which does not contain many of the same 
checks
 > and balances that govern wiretaps for criminal purposes, can be used only
 > when foreign intelligence gathering is the primary purpose. The 
compromise
 > bill would allow use of FISA surveillance authority even if the primary
 > purpose were a criminal investigation. Intelligence surveillance merely
 > needs to be only a "significant" purpose.
 >
 > 2. Under current law, a law enforcement agent can get a pen register or 
trap
 > and trace order requiring the telephone company to reveal the numbers 
dialed
 > to and from a particular phone. It must simply certify that the 
information
 > to be obtained is "relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation." This 
is a
 > very low level of proof, far less than probable cause. The judge must 
grant
 > the order upon receiving the certification. The new bill would extend 
this
 > low threshold of proof to Internet communications that are far more
 > revealing than numbers dialed on a phone. For example, it would 
apparently
 > apply to law enforcement efforts to determine what websites a person had
 > visited. This is like giving law enforcement the power - based only on 
its
 > own certification -- to require the librarian to report on the books you 
had
 > perused while visiting the public library. This is extending a low 
standard
 > of proof - far less than probable cause -- to "content" information.
 >
 > 3. In allowing for "nationwide service" of pen register and trap and 
trace
 > orders, the bill would further marginalize the role of the judiciary. It
 > would authorize what would be the equivalent of a blank warrant in the
 > physical world: the court issues the order, and the law enforcement agent
 > fills in the places to be searched. This is not consistent with the
 > important Fourth Amendment privacy protection of requiring that warrants
 > specify the place to be searched. Under this legislation, a judge would 
be
 > unable to meaningfully monitor the extent to which her order was being 
used
 > to access information about Internet communications. The Senate amendment 
to
 > the Commerce, Justice and State Appropriations bill included a similar
 > provision.
 >
 > 4. The bill would also grant the FBI broad access in "intelligence"
 > investigations to records about a person maintained by a business. The 
FBI
 > would need only certify to a court that it is conducting an intelligence
 > investigation and that the records it seeks may be relevant. With this 
new
 > power, the FBI could force a business to turn over a person's 
educational,
 > medical, financial, mental health and travel records based on a very low
 > standard of proof and without meaningful judicial oversight.
 >
 > The ACLU noted that the FBI already has broad authority to monitor 
telephone
 > and Internet communications. Most of the changes proposed in the bill 
would
 > apply not just to surveillance of terrorists, but instead to all
 > surveillance in the United States.
 >
 > Law enforcement authorities -- even when they are required to obtain 
court
 > orders - have great leeway under current law to investigate suspects in
 > terrorist attacks. Current law already provides, for example, that 
wiretaps
 > can be obtained for the crimes involved in terrorist attacks, including
 > destruction of aircraft and aircraft piracy.
 >
 > The FBI also already has authority to intercept these communications 
without
 > showing probable cause of crime for "intelligence" purposes under the
 > Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). Little is known about the
 > extent of this wiretapping, other than that FISA wiretaps now exceed
 > wiretapping for all domestic criminal investigations. The standards for
 > obtaining a FISA wiretap are lower than the standards for obtaining a
 > criminal wiretap.
 >
 > Criminal Justice
 >
 > One of the most serious civil liberties concerns in the Senate bill is 
that
 > it would dramatically expand the use of secret searches. Normally, a 
person
 > is notified when law enforcement conducts a search. In some cases 
regarding
 > searches for electronic information, law enforcement authorities can get
 > court permission to delay notification of a search. This bill would 
extend
 > the authority of the government to request "secret searches" to every
 > criminal case. This vast expansion of power goes far beyond anything
 > necessary to conduct terrorism investigations.
 >
 > The bill would also allow for the broad sharing of sensitive information 
in
 > criminal cases with intelligence agencies, including the CIA, the NSA, 
the
 > INS and the Secret Service. It would permit sensitive grand jury and 
wiretap
 > information without judicial review or any safeguards regarding the 
future
 > use or dissemination of such information.
 >
 > The bill also creates a new crime of "domestic terrorism." The new 
offense
 > would transform protestors into terrorists if they engage in conduct that
 > "involves acts dangerous to human life." Members of Operation Rescue, the
 > Environmental Liberation Front and Greenpeace, for example, have all 
engaged
 > in activities that could subject them to prosecution as terrorists. Then,
 > under this legislation, the dominos would fall. Those who provide lodging 
or
 > other assistance to these "domestic terrorists" could have their homes
 > wiretapped and could be prosecuted.
 >
 > Last Updated: 10-05-01

--
Ted Glick
IPPN National Coordinator
P.O. Box 1041, Bloomfield, N.J. 07003
www.ippn.org, 973-338-5398
"I am firmly convinced that the passionate will for justice and truth has 
done
more to improve (the human condition) than calculating political shrewdness
which in the long run only breeds general mistrust."� �� Albert Einstein





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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2205
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-08 21:23:53
Subject:princeton peace rally
Message:

                     N.J. peace groups protest U.S. air
                     strikes

                     By ELIZABETH A. KENNEDY
                     The Associated Press
                     10/8/01 4:09 PM

                     PRINCETON, N.J. (AP) -- Carrying signs and chanting 
"One world, no
                     war," about 75 Princeton University students, staff and 
townspeople
                     protested U.S. air strikes against Afghanistan.

                     "We're asking for the bombing to stop," said Zia Mian, 
a member of the
                     Princeton Peace Network, which organized Monday's event 
on the
                     Princeton campus. "No more innocent lives have to be 
lost."

                     The peace group was formed after the Sept. 11 terrorist 
attacks on New
                     York and Washington. Monday's rally was called 
following Sunday's U.S.
                     air strikes on Afghanistan. The group is made of 
university students,
                     faculty and town residents.

                     Mian, a member of the university's research faculty, 
called for a nonviolent
                     resolution to the crisis.

                     "All that the Bush administration has done is issue 
ultimatums and threats
                     and now start bombing," he said. As the crowd cheered 
him on, he urged
                     mediation between the United States and the Taliban.

                     Calling the terrorist acts "evil crimes," Mian also 
said the perpetrators
                     should be brought to justice in an international court.

                     Randy Olson, 21, a Princeton resident, said he attended 
the rally
                     because he doesn't believe that strikes will root out 
terrorism.

                     "You can kill a million terrorists, but it's not just 
bodies, it's a mindset and
                     a belief. You don't kill that," he said.

                     About 15 counterdemonstrators gathered nearby.

                     Nat Hoopes, a Princeton junior and member of the 
college's Committee
                     Against Terrorism, said he showed up to support U.S. 
troops.

                     Wearing a gray T-shirt with "ARMY" emblazoned across 
the front, he
                     called the peace rally "unpatriotic, at a time when 
patriotism is most
                     needed."

                     Princeton students overwhelmingly oppose the air 
strikes, he said, but he
                     noted that this is not a view shared by everyone on 
campus or Americans
                     in general.

                     "No one is pro-war, but everyone really realizes that 
it's a necessary
                     step," he said.

                     Other New Jersey peace activists argue that military 
action ultimately will
                     prove counterproductive.

                     Alice Vedova, a member of the Religious Society of 
Friends in
                     Ridgewood, said U.S. air strikes will only exacerbate 
the violence.

                     "We're just igniting this situation," Vedova said. "The 
U.S. needs to spend
                     its money not on war, but on helping people. It would 
cut (terrorism) down
                     when they felt the U.S. was not being an aggressor," 
she said.

                     She said the United States has failed to provide enough 
humanitarian aid
                     to countries like Afghanistan, where civil war and a 
three-year drought
                     have led to famine.

                     "People go to these extremes when they're suffering," 
she said.

                     Madelyn Hoffman, director of New Jersey Peace Action, a 
disarmament
                     organization based in Montclair, said she realizes that 
those who applaud
                     the air strikes might find nonviolent views offensive 
at this time.

                     "It's not that we're turning our back on what 
happened," she explained.
                     "But we want to end the cycle of violence."

                     She suggested bringing the perpetrators to justice 
through law
                     enforcement groups that would target only those 
responsible.

                     "This is the U.S. showing its might and muscle by 
dropping bombs," she
                     said. "We're being assured they're being specifically 
targeted, but there's
                     always the likelihood that innocent civilians will be 
killed."

                      Copyright 2001 Associated Press. All rights reserved. 
This material may not be
                                 published, broadcast, rewritten, or 
redistributed.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2206
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-08 23:16:20
Subject:Peltier and Acoli Actions
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign urges all people to take some time out to 
read, participate in, and to forward out this email to your friends and 
family.

FREE ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
________________________________________________________________________________________________

LEONARD PELTIER DEFENSE COMMITTEE TO RELEASE NEW CAMPAIGN ANNOUNCEMENT ON
"COLUMBUS DAY" OCT. 12

Dear Friends,

Despite these difficult and uncertain times, we plan to move forward with
the new campaign to free Leonard Peltier.� We have identified some new
avenues by which to seek justice and your continued support will be
important.� We will release the new campaign announcement on "Columbus Day"
October 12, and we hope you will enter with us into the next phase of the
struggle.� We cannot leave Leonard behind.� Thank you for your strength and
understanding.

In Solidarity,
LPDC

P.S.� Several people have continued to report that their messages to us are
being bounced back.� As of yesterday, the problem was supposed to have been
permanently fixed.� If you e-mail us and your message does not go through,
please notify us by phone, or fax the bounced message to us: P.785-842-5774
/ F.785-842-5796.� Thank you.


Leonard Peltier Defense Committee
PO Box 583
Lawrence, KS 66044
785-842-5774
www.freepeltier.org

To subscribe, send a blank message to
lpdc-on@. mail-list.com
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
SPREAD THE WORD TO SUPPORT SUNDIATA ACOLI'S RIGHT TO LEGAL COUNSEL!

Political prisoner Sundiata Acoli was placed in Administrative Segregation 
immediately following the September 11th attack. (see 
http://www.mumia.org/sundiata/ for information about Sundiata.)� Since that 
time he has been held incommunicado and has even been denied any contact 
with his lawyers, a totally unconstitutional state of affairs.� The 
spokesperson for his freedom campaign, Sister Shiriki, has called for a 
fax/phone blitz on his behalf this week (see message below) and Jericho is 
trying to coordinate the West Coast effort which will be Tuesday, October 
9th. People in other parts of the country, please check the day for your 
region's blitz below.

West Coast people please try and phone or fax both the Bureau of Prisons 
office and the Attorney General's office between the hours of 10 am and 12 
noon on October 9th.� If you are unable to phone/fax at that time do it when 
you can.� It is critical that we let them know that we are aware of the 
situation and that large numbers of people will not accept such violations 
of basic constitutional rights. I have provided a sample letter below but if 
you have time, write your own.� And let me know if you get any notable 
response.� Thanks!

Diana
Jericho Amnesty Movement

<<sundiata letter>>

October 8, 2001

Kathleen Hawk Sawyer
Director, Federal Bureau of Prisons�����
320 First St. NW
Washington, D.C. 20534
202-514-6878 (fax)
202-307-6300 (phone)


RE:Sundiata Acoli/Clark Squire #39794-066

Dear Ms. Sawyer:

I am extremely concerned about the situation of Sundiata Acoli/Clark Squire 
who has been denied legal calls and legal visits since the September 11th 
attacks.� Immediately following the attacks, Mr. Acoli was placed in 
Administrative Segregation even though he had not committed any disciplinary 
infraction, and since that time he has not been able to contact his 
attorney.� There can be no justification for denying a prisoner the 
constitutionally protected right to legal counsel.� I urge you to 
immediately allow Mr. Acoli to contact his attorney and to release him from 
Administrative Segregation.
.
Sincerely,







Cc: Attorney General John Ashcroft
U.S. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
Washington, D.C.
Fax: (202) 353-1555
Phone: (202) 514-5331



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2207
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-09 02:45:22
Subject:**CRITICAL INFORMATION**
Message:

                       **CRITICAL INFORMATION**
                       ------------------------

EVERONE OPPOSED TO WAR AND TERRORISM (theirs AND ours) NEEDS TO STUDY THIS 
WEBSITE! PASS IT ON....-MS


************************************************************************
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
************************************************************************

(sampler article)

ARE AMERICANS THE VICTIMS OF A HOAX?

The time has come to stop using the flag as a blindfold, to stop waving our 
guns and our gods at each other, to take a close look at the facts which 
have emerged from the attacks on the World Trade Towers and to recognize the 
very real possibility, indeed probability, that We The People are the 
victims of a gigantic and deadly hoax.
In a normal terrorist event, the terrorists cannot wait to take credit, in 
order to link the violence to the socio-political intent of the terrorist 
organization. Yet the prime suspect in the New York Towers case, ex(?) CIA 
asset Osama Bin Laden (whose brother is one of George W. Bush's Texas 
business partners), has issued only two statements regarding the September 
11th attacks, and both of those are denials of any involvement.
Huge problems are emerging in the official view of events. It's known that 
the United States was planning an invasion of Afghanistan long before the 
attacks on the World Trade Towers. Indeed the attacks on the World Trade 
Towers perfectly fit the timetable of an invasion by October stated by US 
officials just last summer.
The 19 names of suspected hijackers released by the FBI don't point to 
Afghanistan. They come from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, United Arab Emirates; all 
across the middle east without a focus in any one region. Indeed, even as 
the FBI was admitting that its list of 19 names was based solely on 
identifications thought to have been forged, Saudi Arabia's Foreign Minister 
Prince Saud Al-Faisal insisted that an investigation in Saudi Arabia showed 
that the 5 Saudi men were not aboard the four jetliners that crashed in New 
York, Virginia and Pennsylvania on September 11. "It was proved that five of 
the names included in the FBI list had nothing to do with what happened," 
Al-Faisal told the Arabic Press in Washington after meeting with U.S. 
President George W. Bush at the White House. A sixth identified hijacker is 
also reported to still be alive in Tunisia, while a 7th named man died two 
years ago!
In a recent development, the BBC is reporting that the transcript of a phone 
call made by Flight Attendant Madeline Amy Sweeney to Boston air traffic 
controls shows that the flight attendant gave the seat numbers occupied byu 
the hijackers, seat numbers which were NOT the seats of the men the FBI 
claimed were responsible for the hijacking!
FBI Chief Robert Mueller admitted on September 20 and on September 27 that 
at this time the FBI has no legal proof to prove the true identities of the 
suicidal hijackers. Yet in the haste to move forward on the already planned 
war in Afghanistan, our government and the FBI (which does not have the best 
record for honesty in investigations to begin with, having been caught 
rigging lab tests, manufacturing testimony in the Vincent Foster affair, and 
illegally withholding/destroying evidence in the Oklahoma Bombing case) are 
not taking too close a look at evidence that points away from the designated 
suspect, ex(?) CIA asset Osama Bin Laden.
In particular, the FBI, too busy harassing political dissenters to find 
spies in its midst, the long rumored mole inside the White House, or plug 
leaks in high-tech flowing to foreign nations, has willfully and criminally 
ignored the implications of some vital pieces of information the FBI is 
itself waving around at the public.
We are being told that this crack team of terrorists, able to breeze past 
airport security as if it wasn't there, wound up leaving so much evidence in 
its wake that the bumbling Inspector Clouseau (or the FBI) could not fail to 
stumble over it. The locations where the terrorists supposedly stayed are so 
overloaded with damning materials that they resemble less a crimes scene, 
and more a "B" detective movie set, with vital clues always on prominent 
display for the cameras.
Yet another problem lies with the described actions of the hijackers 
themselves. We are being told on the one hand that these men were such 
fanatical devotees of their faith that they willingly crashed the jets they 
were flying into buildings. Yet on the other hand, we are being told that 
these same men spent the night before their planned visit to Allah drinking 
in strip bars, committing not just one, but two mortal sins which would keep 
them out of Paradise no matter what else they did. Truly devout Muslims 
would spend the day before a suicide attack fasting and praying. Not only 
does the drinking in strip bars not fit the profile of a fanatically 
religeous Muslim willing to die for his cause, but the witness reports of 
the men in the bars are of men going out of their way to be noticed and 
remembered, while waving around phony identifications.
Because of the facts of the phony identifications, we don't really know who 
was on those planes. What we do know is that the men on those planes went to 
a great deal of trouble to steal the identities of Muslims, and to make sure 
those identities were seen and remembered, then to leave a plethora of 
planted clues around, such as crop dusting manuals, and letters in checked 
baggage (why does a terrorist about to die need to check baggage?) that 
"somehow" didn't get on the final, fatal, flight.
Fake terror is nothing new. According to recently released files, our 
government planned Operation NORTHWOODS to stage phony terror attacks 
against American citizens in the wake of the Bay Of Pigs, to anger Americans 
into support for a second invasion of Cuba. The plan was spiked by JFK. If 
our government has ever actually carried out such plans to stage phony 
terror attacks, the documents have remained classified. But given the 
reality of Operation NORTHWOODS, or the manner in which FDR manuevered Japan 
into attacking Pearl Harbor, one cannot rule out the possibility that, once 
again, the people of the United States are being lied to by their own 
government, to manufacture consent for a war of invasion already being 
discussed with other nations the previous summer.
It is also quite possible, indeed likely, that the United States is being 
spoofed by a third party to trigger a war. It has happened before. According 
to Victor Ostrovsky, a defector from Israel's secret service, Mossad, Israel 
decided to mount a false-flag operation designed to further discredit Libya, 
and provoke the US to attack an Arab nation. A transmitter loaded with 
pre-recorded messages was planted in Tripoli, Libya, by a Mossad team.
The `Trojan Horse' beamed out fake messages about Libyan-authorized bombings 
and planned attacks that were immediately intercepted by US electronic 
monitoring. Convinced by this disinformation that Libya was behind the 1986 
bombing of a Berlin disco in which a US soldier died, President Ronald 
Reagan ordered massive air attacks on Libya, including an obvious- and 
illegal(under US law) attempt to assassinate Qadaffi himself. Some 100 
Libyan civilians were killed, including Qadaffi's two year old daughter. 
Libyan officials had no idea why they were attacked.
It is worth remembering the motto of the Mossad is, "By way of deception, 
thou shalt do war."
Whether they were involed in the attacks or not, it cannot be doubted that 
Israel has benefited from the attacks in New York. While world attention is 
focuzed on what the US will do in Afghanistan, Israel has escalated its 
attacks against Palestinians towns. Israel has repeatedly tried to claim 
that Palestinians were involved in the New York attacks, hoping to bury the 
Palestinian cause under the rubble of the World Trade Towers.
Because of the faked IDs and stolen identities, we don't really know who 
planned the World Trade Towers attacks. We only know who they wanted us to 
blame.
And we know that the United States has been tricked in the past into bombing 
someone who did not deserve the attack, and that those who were bombed then 
embarked on what from their point of view was justified retaliation that 
culminated over Lockerbie. And while bombs were falling and planes were 
crashing, Israel was laughing at us that we had been so easily fooled into 
bombing Israel's targets for them.
Are we being hoaxed again, by Israel, or by our own government, or by both? 
It's impossible to rule that out. Right now there are a lot of people who 
want war. Oil companies want Afghanistan's petroleum products. Our 
corporations want "friendlier" markets. The CIA wants all that opium. And 
all those war-mongers, with all their greed and agendas, will not hesitate 
in the least to pour your tax dollars and your children's blood all over 
Afghanistan, to get those "friendlier" markets, oil, and opium.
Because of the vested interests at work here, American citizens must, more 
than at any other time in recent history, rely on themselves to decide what 
is happening in our nation. Too many of those who purport to report the 
"truth" to us are eager to grab more tax money and more children to pour 
into a war of invasion, poised at a region which has swallowed up every army 
that has tried to conquer it since the time of Alexander The Great.



----Original Message Follows----
From: Dwayne Middleton <nia7@...>
Subject: WHAT REALLY HAPPENED/ article
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 01:43:09 -0400

FYI...

http://BlackElectorate.com

It certainly was not a surprise.  As most of you
know, earlier today the
U.S. military officially began its bombings against
Afghanistan
(supposedly just Ussama Bin Laden and the Taliban).
While the mainstream
media is focusing on the Playstation-like aspects of
this war, in a
similar fashion to the manner in which it did in
1991, among other things,
we will be watching three countries extremely
closely: Saudi Arabia,
Egypt, and Pakistan.  As we have privately mentioned
to a few of you on
our mailing list, we do not believe that Pakistan's
government will be
able to withstand the political and economic
implications and consequences
of this war. The influx of refugees, the resentment
for the support of Bin
Laden and the residual dissatisfaction with the
manner in which Gen.
Musharraf assumed power will result in the toppling
of the Pakistan
government, in the short-term, IMF and U.S. aid to
Pakistan
notwithstanding.

In Saudi Arabia and Egypt, in particular, we see the
rapidly growing
vulnerability of the regimes to more radical and
extreme elements in the
country that have felt for years that the ruling
powers have capitulated
to
the West. Watch as internal problems and issues of
poverty are linked to
undue Western influence in these three countries, by
opposition groups and
spiritual leaders.

As we begin a whirlwind atmosphere of tension, fear,
ignorance and
increased
aggression, we ask our viewers to:

1) Watch the lack of original and independent
reporting being conducted by
the mainstream and Washington press corps.  So far,
the reporting has been
atrocious, without Pentagon



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2208
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-09 13:09:56
Subject:Peace rally reacts to bombings
Message:

NJ Anti-War Coalition Meeting
Tonight, Tuesday @8:00pm
Scott Hall rm 123

>Peace rally reacts to bombings
>By: Margie Watson, Staff Writer
>
>
>10/09/01
>--------------------------
>
>An emergency rally for peace, sponsored by the Anti-War Coalition, was held 
>yesterday on the steps of Brower Commons on the College Avenue campus in 
>response to the United States and Great Britain dropping bombs on 
>Afghanistan Sunday. The coalition is made up of 18 local and University 
>groups.  Students in support of the government�s actions also attended the 
>rally, waving American flags and debating with rally-goers on the sidewalk 
>about the current issues surrounding the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
>
>�The coalition decided we would have a response rally 24 hours after the 
>bombing started in Afghanistan,� said Tom DeGloma, a graduate student of 
>sociology and member of the Anti-War Coalition. The coalition advocates the 
>active mobilization of citizens against war and terrorist attacks on 
>civilian life and racism, while encouraging public debate on the role and 
>consequences of American foreign policy, according to the coalition�s code 
>of ethics.
>
>�I think it�s an atrocity,� DeGloma said of the actions taken by America 
>and Great Britain. Despite yesterday�s reports in The New York Times that 
>�20 women, children and elderly were killed in Kabul in Sunday�s assault,� 
>DeGloma said, �I do not believe this was a low-intensity bombing campaign.� 
>He said he believes thousands of Afghanis have already been killed from 
>Sunday and yesterday�s bombing.
>
>�Now more than ever, it is important for the anti-war movement to come out 
>and be loud,� said Xavier Hansen, a Livingston College Class of 1997 
>alumnus and member of the Radical Expansion of Democracy Collective. The 
>RED Collective is a group that aims to inform people of the global 
>inequalities and military violence that threaten human safety and democracy 
>in this country as well as the rest of the world, according to information 
>provided by the group.
>
>Hansen told rally-goers, �We need to be clear that the position of the 
>American government � is not a strong position; it is a weak position.� 
>Hansen said the American government is responding to the terrorist attacks 
>so quickly �because they don�t want people to dig into the history of 
>terrorism.� He said when the media report on Osama bin Laden�s history, 
>�all their stories start with 1996 as if Osama just fell from the sky at 
>that time.� He added that the CIA, acting as �Dr. Frankenstein,� created 
>terrorist monsters by supplying some $7 billion in weapons and training to 
>mujahedin guerillas in an effort to drive Soviet forces out of Afghanistan.
>
>�Those who commit terrorist attacks have to be stopped � in every country,� 
>Hansen said, but noted that bombing would only �bring about more attacks 
>and casualties.�
>
>Jeremy Glick, an instructor in the University�s English department and a 
>member of Unity and Struggle, lost his father in the Sept. 11 terrorist 
>attacks. �It�s extremely frustrating to turn on the TV and hear your family 
>irrationally invoked to this slaughter [in Afghanistan],� Glick said.
>
>Lisa Nurnberger, a New Brunswick resident who was sitting at her desk on 
>the 77th floor of the North Tower when the plane hit, agreed. �You have to 
>go out and educate your family and friends and make them realize that what 
>is going on here is wrong,� he said. �Blowing up innocent people is not 
>going to help. There needs to be justice.�
>
>About 10 of the 80 people gathered on the steps of Brower Commons were not 
>opposed to war and voiced their opinions through debates with rally-goers 
>on the sidewalk. One student who agreed with the government�s actions stood 
>in front of the speakers� podium, waving an American Flag.
>
>Ryan Quinn, a Livingston College first-year student, said although he wants 
>peace just as much as those attending the rally, he does not think there is 
>an alternative to war. He said he attended the rally because he was 
>interested in what alternate solutions rally speakers could provide.
>
>Speakers at the rally advocated bringing the terrorists to a world court 
>for a fair trial. �Go ahead. Bring them to world court. I just want to ask 
>them how they�re going to get them to world court,� Quinn said. �They don�t 
>have their facts straight,� he added. �I�m just using my head. They�re just 
>confused.�
>--------------------------
>Story Source: The Daily Targum
>
>


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Post ID:2209
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-09 13:31:18
Subject:Rallies across NJ
Message:

Better Press notifications would have put the RU demostration on the map.


                     Small groups rally against U.S. attacks

                     10/09/01

                     BY SUSAN K. LIVIO
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

                     Anti-war demonstrators carrying signs or holding 
candles gathered yesterday in Montclair and Edison and at Princeton 
University to protest the Bush administration's attacks on Afghanistan.

                     By far the largest group was at Princeton, where about 
100 activists, students and teachers waved signs that read "Not In My Name" 
-- and drew support from each other's company.

                     When the crowd dispersed, some participants like Bob 
Moss of Bloomfield admitted that without the forum provided by the Princeton 
Peace Network and the Coalition for Peace Action they would have been 
reticent to express their views.

                     "It felt good to be with other people who feel the same 
way," Moss said. "But I'm not sure I'll put this sign in my window."

                     Princeton resident Eliane Geren said she received angry 
telephone calls after local newspapers published her letter urging President 
Bush not to use violence to respond to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

                     In Montclair, where New Jersey Peace Action called an 
"emergency vigil," 50 protesters crowded around Watchung Plaza, which has a 
memorial to veterans of World War I.

                     "The bombing in Afghanistan will only bring more death 
and violence," said the Rev. Judy Tomlinson of the Unitarian Church of 
Montclair, one of the protesters. "We would like to call a moratorium on 
death."

                     Four people who also belonged to New Jersey Peace 
Action showed up at the vacant Boston Market on Route 1 in Edison near the 
Menlo Park Mall, where they displayed anti-war signs to passing traffic.

                     Several passing motorists shouted obscenities at the 
group.

                     Tom Mahedy of Wall Township, one of the demonstrators, 
said many people who oppose the military strikes on Afghanistan are not 
speaking up.

                     "You'd be surprised. Even a lot of people who have lost 
loved ones, I've heard them say, 'I don't want anyone else to feel what I 
feel,'" he said.

                     Carol Gay of Brick said the media are to blame for the 
popular support for the U.S. strikes. "There's a media frenzy that says, 
'War! War!' " she said.

                     Madelyn Hoffman, director of New Jersey Peace Action, 
said the peace movement will find it difficult to challenge this war.

                     "The casualties -- 6,000 or more -- were right here at 
home. That really affects people, and rightfully so," Hoffman said. "But I 
think after the grieving and the sorrow, there can be a way of increasing 
compassion for others in similar situations."

                     Hoffman said the President should have continued 
diplomatic efforts to bring the terrorism suspects before an international 
tribunal.

                     "Bombing may not bring the right people to justice," 
and increase the risk of retaliation, she said.

                     At the Princeton rally, a student group called the 
Princeton Committee Against Terrorism came with American came ready to 
engage the protesters.

                     When Zia Mian, a Peace Network member and a research 
staffer at the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs, 
announced details of a coming "March Against Bigotry" to protest the rise in 
bias crimes against Arabs and Muslims, Eric Wang of the anti-terrorist group 
interrupted him.

                     "We agree, we are against bigotry, too," Wang said.

                     Another of the counterprotesters group explained their 
stand. "We'd rather not be fighting. But in order to preserve liberty, 
security and freedom, you have to be willing to pay a price for it," 
Princeton sophomore David Robinson said.

                     Peace activists said they will continue to hold rallies 
to clarify valid "opposing viewpoints."

                     "Discussion about what we should do has gotten 
polarized in an absurdly simplistic way," said Carol Cook, a former 
university faculty member and a Peace Network member. "Either you fly a flag 
and embrace retaliation, or you don't -- and people assume you sympathize 
with the terrorists," she said.

                     Staff Writers Josh Margolin and Reginald Roberts 
contributed to this report.

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Post ID:2210
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-10 11:42:46
Subject:Gubernatorial Debate Tonight
Message:








NJN, C-SPAN to carry debate   10/10/01

                     Tonight's gubernatorial debate between Democrat Jim 
McGreevey and Republican Bret Schundler will be broadcast live, from 8 to 9 
p.m., on New Jersey Network's television and radio stations and on C-SPAN. 
It can also be seen live on www.njn.net. The debate will take place before a 
live audience at the New Jersey Performing Arts Center in Newark.

Stature and discipline clash in gubernatorial TV debate
                     10/10/01
                     BY JEFF WHELAN
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

                     The two major party candidates for governor
face off tonight for the first time in a televised debate that will
compete for attention with the war in Afghanistan and the first game
of the Yankees' playoff run.

                     Republican Bret Schundler, trailing by 15
points in the latest poll two weeks ago, is banking on the encounter
to showcase his telegenic looks and debating prowess. Democrat Jim
McGreevey, an energetic campaigner but cautious debater, must avoid
a major mistake.

                     Adding to the challenges for both candidates is
the uncertain political environment since the Sept. 11 terrorism
attacks. After nearly a month-long hiatus, the race took a negative
turn in recent days as both campaigns traded broadsides on taxes and
social issues. It is unclear how voters will regard such theater, if
it comes to that tonight.

                     Schundler has the most at stake. For months,
McGreevey has successfully hammered at Schundler's conservative
positions on abortion, gun control and education. Schundler is
likely to try to counter the "extremist" label that McGreevey has
sought to pin on him and point to the Democrat's record of raising
taxes as a legislator and mayor of Woodbridge.

                     "This is not the time to mess around for
Schundler . . . He really has to try to get some traction while
there is enough time," said David Rebovich, a political science
professor at Rider University. "He needs to show himself to be
smart, but also sensible and sensitive to citizen concerns that some
of his views might be too extreme."

                     But, Rebovich said, McGreevey "can't really
ride this one home."

                     "There still is the perception that he is a
little too programmed and short on detail," said Rebovich. "What he
has to do is show viewers that besides having the 'correct position'
on the issues, he also has some plausible policy proposals."

                     For weeks, Schundler campaign aides have raised
expectations, telling reporters the debates could be pivotal. During
the primary, Schundler, who is quick on his feet and is a commanding
presence at 6 feet, 2 inches tall, often got the better of his
opponent, former Congressman Bob Franks.

                     Bill Pascoe, Schundler's campaign manager,
heralded tonight's encounter, saying, "Finally, the world will get a
chance to see Bret and McGreevey on the stage together."

                     One prominent Democrat and McGreevey supporter
acknowledged yesterday that McGreevey, who is five inches shorter,
is concerned about the so-called "stature gap." "Schundler comes
across like he's ready to throw a touchdown," said the Democrat, who
asked not to be identified.

                     On the campaign trail, Schundler has a
take-all-comers attitude and seems to relish his ability to answer
every question that comes his way. But that freewheeling style has
also brought him trouble, and at times made him seem arrogant.

                    "Bret Schundler is certainly the stronger
debater, although he may want to be careful about crossing the line
with acerbic or negative comments," said Richard McGrath,
McGreevey's spokesman.

                     In July, Schundler drew criticism when he
likened McGreevey to an "ayatollah" for not respecting his view on
abortion. Schundler opposes legal abortion except when the life of
the mother is in danger. More recently, Schundler again drew heat
after he was quoted as criticizing the state's emergency response to
the terrorist attacks. Schundler has said his remarks were
"mischaracterized."

>                     Few people are expected to watch tonight, so 
>Schundler's objective will be to generate positive headlines in tomorrow's 
>newspapers.
>
>                     McGreevey's discipline could serve him well. One 
>Schundler strategist reviewed McGreevey's debate tapes from the 1997 
>campaign with envy, saying that the Democrat's responses and body language 
>were the same in each debate, a technique that reinforced his message.
>
>                     "He is mercilessly and relentlessly on message. This 
>guy is good," said the Schundler strategist. "Some people say programmed, 
>some people say robotic. But he's figured out what his message is."
>
>                     But McGreevey also must take care not to come across 
>as too wooden, as he often does on the campaign trail.
>
>                     Sitting on a comfortable lead, he often sidesteps 
>questions and declines to provide specifics. His campaign tightly controls 
>interviews, and McGreevey is always prepared with briefing papers, at times 
>reading from them verbatim. After one-on-one encounters, he routinely asks 
>reporters to read back his quotes. "Let me know what I'm saying so I'm not 
>surprised by the newspaper tomorrow," he will say.
>
>                     He won't have those luxuries tonight, though neither 
>candidate will face extended follow-up questions. Each candidate will have 
>90-second opening and closing statements and will field rotating questions 
>from four reporters. The candidate will have one minute to respond. His 
>opponent will then get one minute, followed by the first candidate's 
>30-second rebuttal.
>
>                     Jeff Whelan covers politics. He can be reached at 
>(973) 392-7860 or jwhelan@....
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2211
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-10 13:08:44
Subject:Taliban/CIA & Anticommunism
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
>
>Viewpoint
>
>Z. Pallo Jordan
>
>FIGHTING TERRORISM
>
>The uses and abuses of anti-communism
>
>The terrorist attacks two weeks ago on New York and Washington have caused
>outrage and shock across the world. Speaking on behalf of the ANC,
>President Thabo Mbeki said the acts should be condemned without
>reservation. Addressing Parliament last week, South African foreign
>affairs minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma said that South Africa is opposed
>to terrorism. She emphasised that during the course of the armed struggle,
>the ANC had scrupulously avoided terrorism as a tactic. All these are
>absolutely true.
>
>After the terrorist bomb attacks on New York City and Washington, the
>government of the USA declared "war on terrorism". President Bush sounded
>extremely earnest in his declaration, but a question arose in my mind: Is
>the USA in fact opposed to terrorism? Closer examination of the dramatis
>personae involved in the September 11th outrage sheds a rather different
>light on US pronouncements past and present.
>
>A United States newspaper reported: "Last week [the US govt] pledged
>another $43 million in assistance to Afghanistan, raising total aid this
>year to $124 million and making the United States the largest humanitarian
>donor to the country." (The Washington Post, 25 May 2001)
>
>This was barely four months ago. Digging deeper into the recent archives
>of the United States press one finds yet other reports. Among the most
>interesting we find: "The Afghan resistance was backed by the intelligence
>services of the United States and Saudi Arabia with nearly $6 billion
>worth of weapons. And the territory targeted last week, a set of six
>encampments around Khost, where the Saudi exile Osama bin Laden has
>financed a kind of 'terrorist university', in the words of a senior United
>States intelligence official, is well known to the Central Intelligence
>Agency."
>
>"The CIA's military and financial support for the Afghan rebels indirectly
>helped build the camps that the United States attacked. And some of the
>same warriors who fought the Soviets with the CIA's help are now fighting
>under Mr Bin Laden's banner. From those same camps, the Afghan rebels,
>known as mujahedeen, or holy warriors, kept up a decade long siege on the
>Soviet-supported garrison town of Khost.
>
>"Thousands of mujahedeen were dug into the mountains around Khost. Soviet
>accounts of the siege of Khost during 1988 referred to the rebel camps as
>'the last word in NATO engineering techniques'. After a decade of fighting
>during which each side claimed to have killed thousands of the enemy, the
>Afghan rebels poured out of their encampments and took Khost. 'This was
>the most fiercely contested piece of real estate in the 10-year Afghan
>war,' said Milt Bearden, who ran the CIA's side of the war from 1986 to
>1989." (New York Times. 23 August 1998)
>
>Dig a little deeper to discover further surprises when Steve Coll, writing
>in the Washington Post', of 19 July 1992, reveals: "A specially equipped
>C-141 Starlifter transport carrying William Casey touched down at a
>military air base south of Islamabad in October 1984 for a secret visit by
>the CIA director to plan strategy for the war against Soviet forces in
>Afghanistan. Helicopters lifted Casey to three secret training camps near
>the Afghan border, where he watched mujahedeen rebels fire heavy weapons
>and learn to make bombs with CIA-supplied plastic explosives and
>detonators."
>
>"During the visit, Casey startled his Pakistani hosts by proposing that
>they take the Afghan war into enemy territory - into the Soviet Union
>itself. Casey wanted to ship subversive propaganda through Afghanistan to
>the Soviet Union's predominantly Muslim southern republics. The Pakistanis
>agreed, and the CIA soon supplied thousands of Korans, as well as books on
>Soviet atrocities in Uzbekistan and tracts on historical heroes of Uzbek
>nationalism, according to Pakistani and Western officials.
>
>"'We can do a lot of damage to the Soviet Union,' Casey said, according to
>Mohammed Yousaf, a Pakistani general who attended the meeting. Casey's
>visit was a prelude to a secret Reagan administration decision in March
>1985, reflected in National Security Decision Directive 166, to sharply
>escalate US covert action in Afghanistan, according to Western officials.
>Abandoning a policy of simple harassment of Soviet occupiers, the Reagan
>team decided secretly to let loose on the Afghan battlefield an array of
>US high technology and military expertise in an effort to hit and
>demoralise Soviet commanders and soldiers. Casey saw it as a prime
>opportunity to strike at an overextended, potentially vulnerable Soviet
>empire."
>
>The so-called mujahedeen, led by Osama Bin Laden, now accused of being the
>chief suspect responsible for the destruction of the World Trade Centre
>(WTC) and the attack on the Pentagon, it transpires, has been an ally of
>the United States Intelligence community for well nigh two decades. If the
>US press is to be believed, he and his network are in large measure a
>creation of the virulently anti-Communist elements in the US
>establishment, who not only supported them with funds, but also helped
>train and equip them to fight the then Soviet Union. During those years
>the CIA, its helpers in Pakistan and the Saudi rulers taught Bin Laden and
>his associates a host of skills, including how to move money to fund their
>operations from country to country.
>
>As one US commentator writes: "The system is no surprise to the US
>government because Washington and its allies have used it, too. The Bank
>of Credit and Commerce International was a British-Pakistani bank that
>used secret offshore accounts to effect a global money-laundering fraud
>that cost victims $8 billion. Before it was shut down in 1991, it was used
>to fund the mujahedeen, then fighting the Soviet-supported government of
>Afghanistan. The money came from US and Saudi intelligence. Now many of
>the formerly US-supported mujahedeen are members of bin Laden's network.
>They know all about how to launder money through the international bank
>secrecy system."
>
>Yet the alliance among Bin Laden, Taliban, the Saudi monarchy and the New
>Right in the United States establishment is not as odd as it might appear
>at first sight. There is a remarkable convergence of views among these
>allies. In the USA, the New Right's platform includes a very
>fundamentalist reading of the Christian scriptures, (indeed there are
>states where pressure from its more extreme supporters has succeeded in
>having the theory of evolution banned from the school curriculum). New
>Right opposition to women controlling their own fertility in extreme cases
>spills over into attacks on doctors and clinics that terminate unwanted
>pregnancies. "Family values" is the New Right code for the restoration of
>patriarchal relations in the family. Its opposition to any reforms that
>will accord equal rights to all US citizens is as legendary as its
>xenophobia. The New Right are the most vociferous proponents of a
>retributive penal system and the death penalty.
>
>In the Muslim world, but specifically in Afghanistan, the coalition of
>forces represented by Bin Laden and Taliban also insists on a very
>fundamentalist interpretation of the Q'uran. They are opposed to women
>exercising any choice regarding their fertility, and they enforce strict
>patriarchal family relations with violence. Women in the Taliban-ruled
>Afghanistan of today probably have fewer rights than chattel slaves in the
>American South before the civil war. It should come as no surprise that
>among the principal grievances cited by the mujahedeen when they rose in
>rebellion were attempts by the then Soviet-backed government to extend
>equal rights to women. Like their New Right allies, Taliban employs the
>most brutal forms of punishment ranging from public floggings to
>executions. The parties to this alliance represent the forces of reaction
>and extreme backwardness
>
>It might turn out that the US New Right have sown dragon's teeth by arming
>and inspiring what was essentially an anti-modernist rebellion against a
>left-wing government. The reality is that Bin Laden, the Taliban and
>others of their ilk are today striking out at what used to be a doting
>parent. A parent who not only gave them life but also armed them to wage
>war on the 'godless Communists'.
>
>But what could have persuaded these reckless offspring to turn against
>their parent? On examining the roots of the anti-left rebellion in
>Afghanistan one gets to understand today's events better. The left-wing
>party that seized power in Afghanistan during the late 1970s had no
>intention of introducing socialism to that country. Afghanistan was an
>impoverished, semi-feudal society, barely touched by the modern world.
>While Babrak Karmal and his colleagues indeed drew inspiration from and
>looked to the Soviet Union for assistance, their immediate aim was to
>bring their country abreast of the rest of Asia. That would have entailed
>mass literacy by the building of modern schools, the secularisation of the
>society, and the construction of modern infrastructure such as roads,
>electrification, and telecommunications. These would have ended
>Afghanistan's isolation and narrowed the distance between its people and
>the modern era. But it would also have curtailed the power of the Muslim
>clerics. Intellectual emancipation would be one outcome of modernisation.
>
>The standard around which the USA, its helpers in the Pakistan
>intelligence agencies, the Saudi monarchy and the conservative religious
>leaders in Afghanistan mobilised opposition to this government was
>rejection, not of socialism, but modernism itself. They appropriated the
>banner of Islam for that purpose and advocated a fundamentalist
>interpretation of the Q'uran. The CIA, with a purely instrumentalist
>approach, recognised that religion would be a powerful symbol around which
>to rally opposition to the Soviet-backed government, but paid little
>attention to the unplanned-for outcomes that might produce.
>
>The "bleeding ulcer" of Afghanistan was among the many factors that sapped
>the strength of the Soviet Union, leading to its collapse. What US
>policy-makers did not realise is that to the radically anti-modernist
>mujahedeen, the USA - the land of the skyscrapers, the home of Hollywood,
>with hundreds of television channels, millions educated women and with a
>strong emphasis on the separation of the church and state - represented
>the epitome of the modernism they had been mobilised to crush. The
>ideological affinities between the US New Right and Taliban sealed the
>alliance. But while the former necessarily took elements of modernism for
>granted, the latter regarded even its most benign expressions as satanic
>deviance. Thus the stage was set for the offspring to rise against their
>parents.
>
>The history of the last century abounds with numerous examples of
>politicians who have sought to harness anti-Communism, in a very
>instrumental manner, to their project. In most instances these have been
>reactionaries and conservatives defending discredited systems of
>oppression and exploitation. But there have been numerous instances of
>liberals, nationalists and ostensibly progressive people being tempted to
>either play the anti-Communist card with a view to some immediate
>political advantage or to capitulate to it in the hope of gaining some
>dubious political advantage. US policy-makers during the liberal Carter
>administration of early 1980s probably thought they could ride the tiger
>of anti-Communism with impunity. The conservative Reagan and Bush
>administrations of the second half of the 1980s and early 1990s , as the
>US media reports indicate, thought they could take that even further.
>
>Anti-Communism, they are discovering today, is a doubled edged sword.
>While its keen blade helped sweep away what President Reagan once called
>"the evil empire", on its back-swing it returned as a guillotine to wreak
>terrible havoc in the very citadels of US power. There is a lesson there,
>somewhere!
>
>But the last word should go to two US foreign policy specialists, Tom
>Barry and Martha Honey : "As Americans deliberate an effective response to
>this tragedy and crime, we must first reject the call for war. The
>gauntlet goading us to militaristic responses that treat human life as
>callously as the terrorists treated ours must be categorically rejected.
>As with any other crime, the perpetrators and their accomplices must be
>brought to justice-in the courts of law, not according to the
>fundamentalist 'eye-for-an-eye, tooth-for-a-tooth' precepts. In recent
>years, we have made encouraging progress in establishing and enforcing
>international norms for human rights and crimes against humanity. This is
>an opportunity to forge a broader international coalition-bringing
>disparate nations together in a common determination to fight against such
>crimes against humanity. A first principle, then, must be that we treat
>this as an international crime, not an act of war, and that the rule of
>law should guide international response."
>
>Z. Pallo Jordan is a member of the ANC National Executive Committee. This
>article is written in his personal capacity.
>This issue of ANC Today is available from the ANC web site at:
>http://www.anc.org.za/ancdocs/anctoday/2001/at36.htm




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2212
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-11 12:47:04
Subject:Fwd: women's defense
Message:

>               Housing authority mum about meeting
>
>               Published in the Home News Tribune 10/11/01
>
>               By SHARON WATERS
>               STAFF WRITER
>
>               NEW BRUNSWICK: The Housing Authority's board of 
>commissioners discussed in private a personnel issue involving its
>executive director last night and took an action it would not disclose 
>because it was "confidential."
>
>               Housing Authority attorney James Horvath estimated he and 
>the board would stay silent for six months about the action they
>took.
>
>               The board and Horvath would not provide any information 
>about the personnel issues discussed in last night's closed session. 
>However, Daniel Williamson, who was introduced as Executive Director Kevin 
>Quince's attorney, said he was able to attend the closed session because 
>the person who is the focus of the personnel matter has a right to have a 
>representative present.
>
>               "I'm here as his alter ego," said Williamson.
>
>               Quince has been accused of sexual harassment. An 
>investigation of the charges was closed in May.
>
>               Only Williamson, Quince, Horvath and the seven commissioners 
>attended the private session held in the kitchen of the Schwartz-Robeson 
>community room. After one hour and 40 minutes, the group emerged.
>
>               "We discussed personnel issues," announced Horvath. "We took 
>certain action, and we can't say what the action was, and we expect to 
>maybe reveal it within six months."
>
>               When asked why he could not divulge the action, Horvath 
>said, "(It's) personnel. It's confidential."
>
>               Horvath could not provide a legal citation for withholding 
>the information but said he was justified within case law interpretation of 
>the Open Public Meetings Act. He could not provide a case reference.
>
>               Horvath declined to say if the action itself would be taken 
>in six months or at a different time. He also said the six-month time frame 
>for an announcement was simply a guess.
>
>               When asked to comment about the meeting, Quince ducked into 
>a car driven by Deputy Director John Clarke without saying a word.
>
>               His attorney, Williamson, said "Absolutely not. None at 
>all," when asked for a comment.
>
>               Williamson, a Newark-based sole practitioner, said he did 
>not know when he might be able to comment. Williamson would not
>say when he was hired.
>
>               Housing Authority employee Sheri A. Kelton filed a tort 
>claims-act notice in January claiming she was subject to "unwanted 
>touching" by Quince in December, a culmination of various acts of sexual 
>harassment that began in April 2000.
>
>               In January, the authority appointed a special counsel to 
>investigate the charges. Horvath said last week the investigating agent 
>delivered its report to him on March 14. The authority's board studied the 
>report, debated the issues and reached a conclusion in late May, Horvath 
>said.
>
>               "The matter has been fully and completely investigated, and 
>it has been closed since May except for payment of the bills," said Horvath 
>on Oct. 4.
>
>               Horvath has declined to say what actions, if any, were taken 
>against Quince when the investigation closed in May. Quince continued 
>serving as executive director.
>
>               The board's determination was sent to the parties involved 
>in May and June, said Horvath. Other authority employees and the public do 
>not have a right to that information, Horvath said last week.
>
>               Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@...
>
>               from the Home News Tribune
>
>               Published: October 11, 2001
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2213
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-11 16:04:15
Subject:Fwd: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] WBAI Killing its Young
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: Fred Nguyen <siddharta5@...>
To: friendswbainj@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FRIENDSWBAINJ] Killing its Young
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 20:32:24 -0700 (PDT)


 > From: "Lyn Gerry" <redlyn@...>
 >
 > This is a message from WBAI LAB member Andy Norris, to the
 > Pacifica National Board,  on the state of WBAI  programming
 >
 > Lyn
 >  -------------------
 >
 > From: Andrew Norris
 > Reply-To: wbailab@yahoogroups.com
 > To: Alfigo@..., KenFordPacifica@...,
 > gbarnstone@..., jmurdock@...,
 > tomasmoran@..., harav1@...,
 > wendell_L_johns@...,
 > Valrie.Chambers@..., robrobin@...,
 > kford@..., prbram@..., lesliecagan@... CC:
 > WBAI LAB
 >
 > Subject: [wbailab] WBAI 10/9/01 AM
 > Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:48:24 -0400
 > to: PNB from: Andrew Norris, WBAI LAB member
 > www.wbailab.org
 >
 > re: management at WBAI/Pacifica?
 >
 >  At 6:00 this morning the producer of the Sunrise program 6:00-
 > 7:30AM was nowhere in sight. The overnight engineer Max Schmid,
 > and T Dub, a volunteer morning engineer, had no information. There
 > was no notice or other communication. So they together realized
 > that if nobody went on, WBAI would broadcast dead air during a
 > peak listening period.
 >
 > To their credit, they managed to improvise 90 minutes of talk show
 > broadcasting, including call ins from listeners who clearly
 > appreciated the opportunity to speak without fear of being
 > summarily cut-off if they mentioned WBAI or Pacifica. At the end of
 > the 90 minutes, the emergency hosts had stimulated a discussion
 > of whether the real WBAI is now 99.5FM or maybe 91.1FM (where
 > Democracy Now! is broadcast).
 >
 > It is remarkable that today, four weeks after 9/11, WBAI continues
 > to struggle from program to program. The station is no better than it
 > was on 9/11 when the skeleton staff was not up to the task of
 > meeting the emergency. After 9 months of decimating the station
 > and its talent, there is very little left to attempt to serve the
 > community needs.
 >
 > Yet only last week Ms. Leid continued to remove some of the best
 > remaining producers from the air. For instance, Mario Murillo, host
 > of Our Americas may well be history. Both Murillo and Peter
 > Bochan, another producer banned last week, won 2001 Golden
 > Reel Awards (the other WBAI winner of the Golden Reel this year
 > is Dred Scott Keyes who has vividly described the intimidation and
 > harassment of Ms. Leid).
 >
 > Murillo twice before won the Golden Reel Award. Some might recall
 > that only a few years ago Samori Marksman, then Program
 > Director at WBAI, attempted to have Our Americas adopted as a
 > national program by Pacifica. There was intense interest and
 > widespread support for the idea of a weekly program addressing
 > the large and critical audience of latin americans, central and south
 > americans.
 >
 > However, Pacifica management squashed the idea, in the
 > infamously profane and unprofessional letter from Gail Christian,
 > then National Programming Director, to Murillo. Pacifica stations
 > should be incubating such programs, encouraging and developing
 > them as potential national shows. The need for a national
 > broadcast of Our Americas is more critical than ever, as the US
 > becomes enveloped in Colombia. But there is clearly no hope for
 > this type of forward thinking under current management which
 > continues to kill its young.
 >
 >
 >
 > 	http://savewbai.tao.ca
 >
 >
 > 	To unsubscribe from this list
 > 	email lists@... with: unsubscribe savewbai
 > 	or visit http://lists.tao.ca


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2214
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-11 23:29:51
Subject:'Algebra of Infinite Justice' by Arundathi Roy
Message:

This is one of the clearest, and therefore, most chilling positions that 
I've seen on the unfolding Crusade/Jihad bloodbath.  Check out Arundathi 
Roy's description of bin Laden as Bush's "doppleganger" (A ghostly double of 
a living person, especially one that haunts its fleshly counterpart). It 
shows how contemptuous is the ultra-left position that declairs we side with 
imperialism by being simultaneously opposed to US imperialist aggression & 
critical of the Taleban's CIA sponsored fundamentalism.... -MS
**********************************************************************



Subject: Fwd: 'Algebra of Infinite Justice' by Arundathi Roy
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:38:44 -0400


>
>
>Guardian, UK
>Saturday, September 29, 2001
>
>The Algebra of Infinite Justice
>As the US prepares to wage a new kind of war, Arundhati Roy challenges the
>instinct for vengance
>
>By Arundhati Roy
>
>In the aftermath of the unconscionable September 11 suicide attacks on the
>Pentagon and the World Trade Centre, an American newscaster said: "Good
>and evil rarely manifest themselves as clearly as they did last Tuesday.
>People who we don't know massacred people who we do. And they did so with
>contemptuous glee." Then he broke down and wept.
>
>Here's the rub: America is at war against people it doesn't know, because
>they don't appear much on TV. Before it has properly identified or even
>begun to comprehend the nature of its enemy, the US government has, in a
>rush of publicity and embarrassing rhetoric, cobbled together an
>"international coalition against terror", mobilised its army, its air
>force, its navy and its media, and committed them to battle.
>
>The trouble is that once America goes off to war, it can't very well
>return without having fought one. If it doesn't find its enemy, for the
>sake of the enraged folks back home, it will have to manufacture one. Once
>war begins, it will develop a momentum, a logic and a justification of its
>own, and we'll lose sight of why it's being fought in the first place.
>
>What we're witnessing here is the spectacle of the world's most powerful
>country reaching reflexively, angrily, for an old instinct to fight a new
>kind of war. Suddenly, when it comes to defending itself, America's
>streamlined warships, cruise missiles and F-16 jets look like obsolete,
>lumbering things. As deterrence, its arsenal of nuclear bombs is no longer
>worth its weight in scrap. Box-cutters, penknives, and cold anger are the
>weapons with which the wars of the new century will be waged. Anger is the
>lock pick. It slips through customs unnoticed. Doesn't show up in baggage
>checks.
>
>Who is America fighting? On September 20, the FBI said that it had doubts
>about the identities of some of the hijackers. On the same day President
>George Bush said, "We know exactly who these people are and which
>governments are supporting them." It sounds as though the president knows
>something that the FBI and the American public don't.
>
>In his September 20 address to the US Congress, President Bush called the
>enemies of America "enemies of freedom". "Americans are asking, 'Why do
>they hate us?' " he said. "They hate our freedoms - our freedom of
>religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and
>disagree with each other." People are being asked to make two leaps of
>faith here. First, to assume that The Enemy is who the US government says
>it is, even though it has no substantial evidence to support that claim.
>And second, to assume that The Enemy's motives are what the US government
>says they are, and there's nothing to support that either.
>
>For strategic, military and economic reasons, it is vital for the US
>government to persuade its public that their commitment to freedom and
>democracy and the American Way of Life is under attack. In the current
>atmosphere of grief, outrage and anger, it's an easy notion to peddle.
>However, if that were true, it's reasonable to wonder why the symbols of
>America's economic and military dominance - the World Trade Centre and the
>Pentagon - were chosen as the targets of the attacks. Why not the Statue
>of Liberty? Could it be that the stygian anger that led to the attacks has
>its taproot not in American freedom and democracy, but in the US
>government's record of commitment and support to exactly the opposite
>things - to military and economic terrorism, insurgency, military
>dictatorship, religious bigotry and unimaginable genocide (outside
>America)? It must be hard for ordinary Americans, so recently bereaved, to
>look up at the world with their eyes full of tears and encounter what
>might appear to them to be indifference. It isn't indifference. It's just
>augury. An absence of surprise. The tired wisdom of knowing that what goes
>around eventually comes around. American people ought to know that it is
>not them but their government's policies that are so hated. They can't
>possibly doubt that they themselves, their extraordinary musicians, their
>writers, their actors, their spectacular sportsmen and their cinema, are
>universally welcomed. All of us have been moved by the courage and grace
>shown by firefighters, rescue workers and ordinary office staff in the
>days since the attacks.
>
>America's grief at what happened has been immense and immensely public. It
>would be grotesque to expect it to calibrate or modulate its anguish.
>However, it will be a pity if, instead of using this as an opportunity to
>try to understand why September 11 happened, Americans use it as an
>opportunity to usurp the whole world's sorrow to mourn and avenge only
>their own. Because then it falls to the rest of us to ask the hard
>questions and say the harsh things. And for our pains, for our bad timing,
>we will be disliked, ignored and perhaps eventually silenced.
>
>The world will probably never know what motivated those particular
>hijackers who flew planes into those particular American buildings. They
>were not glory boys. They left no suicide notes, no political messages; no
>organisation has claimed credit for the attacks. All we know is that their
>belief in what they were doing outstripped the natural human instinct for
>survival, or any desire to be remembered. It's almost as though they could
>not scale down the enormity of their rage to anything smaller than their
>deeds. And what they did has blown a hole in the world as we knew it. In
>the absence of information, politicians, political commentators and
>writers (like myself) will invest the act with their own politics, with
>their own interpretations. This speculation, this analysis of the
>political climate in which the attacks took place, can only be a good
>thing.
>
>But war is looming large. Whatever remains to be said must be said
>quickly. Before America places itself at the helm of the "international
>coalition against terror", before it invites (and coerces) countries to
>actively participate in its almost godlike mission - called Operation
>Infinite Justice until it was pointed out that this could be seen as an
>insult to Muslims, who believe that only Allah can mete out infinite
>justice, and was renamed Operation Enduring Freedom- it would help if some
>small clarifications are made. For example, Infinite Justice/Enduring
>Freedom for whom? Is this America's war against terror in America or
>against terror in general? What exactly is being avenged here? Is it the
>tragic loss of almost 7,000 lives, the gutting of five million square feet
>of office space in Manhattan, the destruction of a section of the
>Pentagon, the loss of several hundreds of thousands of jobs, the
>bankruptcy of some airline companies and the dip in the New York Stock
>Exchange? Or is it more than that? In 1996, Madeleine Albright, then the
>US secretary of state, was asked on national television what she felt
>about the fact that 500,000 Iraqi children had died as a result of US
>economic sanctions. She replied that it was "a very hard choice", but
>that, all things considered, "we think the price is worth it". Albright
>never lost her job for saying this. She continued to travel the world
>representing the views and aspirations of the US government. More
>pertinently, the sanctions against Iraq remain in place. Children continue
>to die.
>
>So here we have it. The equivocating distinction between civilisation and
>savagery, between the "massacre of innocent people" or, if you like, "a
>clash of civilisations" and "collateral damage". The sophistry and
>fastidious algebra of infinite justice. How many dead Iraqis will it take
>to make the world a better place? How many dead Afghans for every dead
>American? How many dead women and children for every dead man? How many
>dead mojahedin for each dead investment banker? As we watch mesmerised,
>Operation Enduring Freedom unfolds on TV monitors across the world. A
>coalition of the world's superpowers is closing in on Afghanistan, one of
>the poorest, most ravaged, war-torn countries in the world, whose ruling
>Taliban government is sheltering Osama bin Laden, the man being held
>responsible for the September 11 attacks.
>
>The only thing in Afghanistan that could possibly count as collateral
>value is its citizenry. (Among them, half a million maimed orphans.There
>are accounts of hobbling stampedes that occur when artificial limbs are
>airdropped into remote, inaccessible villages.) Afghanistan's economy is
>in a shambles. In fact, the problem for an invading army is that
>Afghanistan has no conventional coordinates or signposts to plot on a
>military map - no big cities, no highways, no industrial complexes, no
>water treatment plants. Farms have been turned into mass graves. The
>countryside is littered with land mines - 10 million is the most recent
>estimate. The American army would first have to clear the mines and build
>roads in order to take its soldiers in.
>
>Fearing an attack from America, one million citizens have fled from their
>homes and arrived at the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan. The UN
>estimates that there are eight million Afghan citizens who need emergency
>aid. As supplies run out - food and aid agencies have been asked to leave
>- the BBC reports that one of the worst humanitarian disasters of recent
>times has begun to unfold. Witness the infinite justice of the new
>century. Civilians starving to death while they're waiting to be killed.
>
>In America there has been rough talk of "bombing Afghanistan back to the
>stone age". Someone please break the news that Afghanistan is already
>there. And if it's any consolation, America played no small part in
>helping it on its way. The American people may be a little fuzzy about
>where exactly Afghanistan is (we hear reports that there's a run on maps
>of the country), but the US government and Afghanistan are old friends.
>
>In 1979, after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the CIA and Pakistan's
>ISI (Inter Services Intelligence) launched the largest covert operation in
>the history of the CIA. Their purpose was to harness the energy of Afghan
>resistance to the Soviets and expand it into a holy war, an Islamic jihad,
>which would turn Muslim countries within the Soviet Union against the
>communist regime and eventually destabilise it. When it began, it was
>meant to be the Soviet Union's Vietnam. It turned out to be much more than
>that. Over the years, through the ISI, the CIA funded and recruited almost
>100,000 radical mojahedin from 40 Islamic countries as soldiers for
>America's proxy war. The rank and file of the mojahedin were unaware that
>their jihad was actually being fought on behalf of Uncle Sam. (The irony
>is that America was equally unaware that it was financing a future war
>against itself.)
>
>In 1989, after being bloodied by 10 years of relentless conflict, the
>Russians withdrew, leaving behind a civilisation reduced to rubble.
>
>Civil war in Afghanistan raged on. The jihad spread to Chechnya, Kosovo
>and eventually to Kashmir. The CIA continued to pour in money and military
>equipment, but the overheads had become immense, and more money was
>needed. The mojahedin ordered farmers to plant opium as a "revolutionary
>tax". The ISI set up hundreds of heroin laboratories across Afghanistan.
>Within two years of the CIA's arrival, the Pakistan-Afghanistan borderland
>had become the biggest producer of heroin in the world, and the single
>biggest source of the heroin on American streets. The annual profits, said
>to be between $100bn and $200bn, were ploughed back into training and
>arming militants.
>
>In 1995, the Taliban - then a marginal sect of dangerous, hardline
>fundamentalists - fought its way to power in Afghanistan. It was funded by
>the ISI, that old cohort of the CIA, and supported by many political
>parties in Pakistan. The Taliban unleashed a regime of terror. Its first
>victims were its own people, particularly women. It closed down girls'
>schools, dismissed women from government jobs, and enforced sharia laws
>under which women deemed to be "immoral" are stoned to death, and widows
>guilty of being adulterous are buried alive. Given the Taliban
>government's human rights track record, it seems unlikely that it will in
>any way be intimidated or swerved from its purpose by the prospect of war,
>or the threat to the lives of its civilians.
>
>After all that has happened, can there be anything more ironic than Russia
>and America joining hands to re-destroy Afghanistan? The question is, can
>you destroy destruction? Dropping more bombs on Afghanistan will only
>shuffle the rubble, scramble some old graves and disturb the dead.
>
>The desolate landscape of Afghanistan was the burial ground of Soviet
>communism and the springboard of a unipolar world dominated by America. It
>made the space for neocapitalism and corporate globalisation, again
>dominated by America. And now Afghanistan is poised to become the
>graveyard for the unlikely soldiers who fought and won this war for
>America.
>
>And what of America's trusted ally? Pakistan too has suffered enormously.
>The US government has not been shy of supporting military dictators who
>have blocked the idea of democracy from taking root in the country. Before
>the CIA arrived, there was a small rural market for opium in Pakistan.
>Between 1979 and 1985, the number of heroin addicts grew from zero to
>one-and-a-half million. Even before September 11, there were three million
>Afghan refugees living in tented camps along the border. Pakistan's
>economy is crumbling. Sectarian violence, globalisation's structural
>adjustment programmes and drug lords are tearing the country to pieces.
>Set up to fight the Soviets, the terrorist training centres and madrasahs,
>sown like dragon's teeth across the country, produced fundamentalists with
>tremendous popular appeal within Pakistan itself. The Taliban, which the
>Pakistan government has sup ported, funded and propped up for years, has
>material and strategic alliances with Pakistan's own political parties.
>
>Now the US government is asking (asking?) Pakistan to garotte the pet it
>has hand-reared in its backyard for so many years. President Musharraf,
>having pledged his support to the US, could well find he has something
>resembling civil war on his hands.
>
>India, thanks in part to its geography, and in part to the vision of its
>former leaders, has so far been fortunate enough to be left out of this
>Great Game. Had it been drawn in, it's more than likely that our
>democracy, such as it is, would not have survived. Today, as some of us
>watch in horror, the Indian government is furiously gyrating its hips,
>begging the US to set up its base in India rather than Pakistan. Having
>had this ringside view of Pakistan's sordid fate, it isn't just odd, it's
>unthinkable, that India should want to do this. Any third world country
>with a fragile economy and a complex social base should know by now that
>to invite a superpower such as America in (whether it says it's staying or
>just passing through) would be like inviting a brick to drop through your
>windscreen.
>
>Operation Enduring Freedom is ostensibly being fought to uphold the
>American Way of Life. It'll probably end up undermining it completely. It
>will spawn more anger and more terror across the world. For ordinary
>people in America, it will mean lives lived in a climate of sickening
>uncertainty: will my child be safe in school? Will there be nerve gas in
>the subway? A bomb in the cinema hall? Will my love come home tonight?
>There have been warnings about the possibility of biological warfare -
>smallpox, bubonic plague, anthrax - the deadly payload of innocuous
>crop-duster aircraft. Being picked off a few at a time may end up being
>worse than being annihilated all at once by a nuclear bomb.
>
>The US government, and no doubt governments all over the world, will use
>the climate of war as an excuse to curtail civil liberties, deny free
>speech, lay off workers, harass ethnic and religious minorities, cut back
>on public spending and divert huge amounts of money to the defence
>industry. To what purpose? President Bush can no more "rid the world of
>evil-doers" than he can stock it with saints. It's absurd for the US
>government to even toy with the notion that it can stamp out terrorism
>with more violence and oppression. Terrorism is the symptom, not the
>disease. Terrorism has no country. It's transnational, as global an
>enterprise as Coke or Pepsi or Nike. At the first sign of trouble,
>terrorists can pull up stakes and move their "factories" from country to
>country in search of a better deal. Just like the multi-nationals.
>
>Terrorism as a phenomenon may never go away. But if it is to be contained,
>the first step is for America to at least acknowledge that it shares the
>planet with other nations, with other human beings who, even if they are
>not on TV, have loves and griefs and stories and songs and sorrows and,
>for heaven's sake, rights. Instead, when Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence
>secretary, was asked what he would call a victory in America's new war, he
>said that if he could convince the world that Americans must be allowed to
>continue with their way of life, he would consider it a victory.
>
>The September 11 attacks were a monstrous calling card from a world gone
>horribly wrong. The message may have been written by Bin Laden (who
>knows?) and delivered by his couriers, but it could well have been signed
>by the ghosts of the victims of America's old wars. The millions killed in
>Korea, Vietnam and Cambodia, the 17,500 killed when Israel - backed by the
>US - invaded Lebanon in 1982, the 200,000 Iraqis killed in Operation
>Desert Storm, the thousands of Palestinians who have died fighting
>Israel's occupation of the West Bank. And the millions who died, in
>Yugoslavia, Somalia, Haiti, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador, the Dominican
>Republic, Panama, at the hands of all the terrorists, dictators and
>genocidists whom the American government supported, trained, bankrolled
>and supplied with arms. And this is far from being a comprehensive list.
>
>For a country involved in so much warfare and conflict, the American
>people have been extremely fortunate. The strikes on September 11 were
>only the second on American soil in over a century. The first was Pearl
>Harbour. The reprisal for this took a long route, but ended with Hiroshima
>and Nagasaki. This time the world waits with bated breath for the horrors
>to come.
>
>Someone recently said that if Osama bin Laden didn't exist, America would
>have had to invent him. But, in a way, America did invent him. He was
>among the jihadis who moved to Afghanistan in 1979 when the CIA commenced
>its operations there. Bin Laden has the distinction of being created by
>the CIA and wanted by the FBI. In the course of a fortnight he has been
>promoted from suspect to prime suspect and then, despite the lack of any
>real evidence, straight up the charts to being "wanted dead or alive".
>
> >From all accounts, it will be impossible to produce evidence (of the sort
>that would stand scrutiny in a court of law) to link Bin Laden to the
>September 11 attacks. So far, it appears that the most incriminating piece
>of evidence against him is the fact that he has not condemned them.
>
> >From what is known about the location of Bin Laden and the living
>conditions in which he operates, it's entirely possible that he did not
>personally plan and carry out the attacks - that he is the inspirational
>figure, "the CEO of the holding company". The Taliban's response to US
>demands for the extradition of Bin Laden has been uncharacteristically
>reasonable: produce the evidence, then we'll hand him over. President
>Bush's response is that the demand is "non-negotiable".
>
>(While talks are on for the extradition of CEOs - can India put in a side
>request for the extradition of Warren Anderson of the US? He was the
>chairman of Union Carbide, responsible for the Bhopal gas leak that killed
>16,000 people in 1984. We have collated the necessary evidence. It's all
>in the files. Could we have him, please?)
>
>But who is Osama bin Laden really? Let me rephrase that. What is Osama bin
>Laden? He's America's family secret. He is the American president's dark
>doppelg�nger. The savage twin of all that purports to be beautiful and
>civilised. He has been sculpted from the spare rib of a world laid to
>waste by America's foreign policy: its gunboat diplomacy, its nuclear
>arsenal, its vulgarly stated policy of "full-spectrum dominance", its
>chilling disregard for non-American lives, its barbarous military
>interventions, its support for despotic and dictatorial regimes, its
>merciless economic agenda that has munched through the economies of poor
>countries like a cloud of locusts. Its marauding multinationals who are
>taking over the air we breathe, the ground we stand on, the water we
>drink, the thoughts we think. Now that the family secret has been spilled,
>the twins are blurring into one another and gradually becoming
>interchangeable. Their guns, bombs, money and drugs have been going around
>in the loop for a while. (The Stinger missiles that will greet US
>helicopters were supplied by the CIA. The heroin used by America's drug
>addicts comes from Afghanistan. The Bush administration recently gave
>Afghanistan a $43m subsidy for a "war on drugs"....)
>
>Now Bush and Bin Laden have even begun to borrow each other's rhetoric.
>Each refers to the other as "the head of the snake". Both invoke God and
>use the loose millenarian currency of good and evil as their terms of
>reference. Both are engaged in unequivocal political crimes. Both are
>dangerously armed - one with the nuclear arsenal of the obscenely
>powerful, the other with the incandescent, destructive power of the
>utterly hopeless. The fireball and the ice pick. The bludgeon and the axe.
>The important thing to keep in mind is that neither is an acceptable
>alternative to the other.
>
>President Bush's ultimatum to the people of the world - "If you're not
>with us, you're against us" - is a piece of presumptuous arrogance. It's
>not a choice that people want to, need to, or should have to make.
>
>� Arundhati Roy 2001
>
>
>



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Post ID:2215
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-15 14:12:30
Subject:fmba for mcgreevey
Message:


               Firemen support McGreevey
                Published in the Home News Tribune 10/13/01
                By KATHLEEN HOPKINS
                STAFF WRITER

                The New Jersey Firemen's Mutual Benevolent Association, 
which represents some 6,000 career firefighters statewide, plans to
endorse Jim McGreevey for governor.

        William Lavin, president of the state FMBA and a Woodbridge
resident, will announce the union's endorsement of the Democratic Woodbridge 
mayor at Engine Company 1 in Elizabeth, where Lavin
>works as a firefighter.

           In a phone interview yesterday, Lavin said he didn't know if
it was more important for the union to announce its endorsement of McGreevey 
or publicize its disapproval of McGreevey' opponent in the gubernatorial 
race, Republican Bret Schundler, former mayor of Jersey City.

           The ranks of the Jersey City Fire Department decreased by 15
percent on Schundler's watch, "while Jersey City's waterfront exploded with 
high-rises," Lavin said.

  "They are unable to effectively fight a high-rise fire in Jersey City," 
Lavin said.

          McGreevey has been listening to the concerns of the police
and firefighters unions for years and, during his time in the state senate, 
built a record of supporting the needs of public-safety workers, Lavin said.

            Tom Gallagher, a spokesman for the Schundler campaign,
defended Schundler's record on public safety, saying the Jersey City
Fire Department has the most firefighters responding to single-alarm fires 
than any other urban fire department in the Garden State.

         The Jersey City Fire Department, he insisted, remain highly
skilled and highly trained throughout Schundler's tenure as mayor.

                Kathleen Hopkins: (908) 353-8003

                from the Home News Tribune

                Published: October 13, 2001

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Post ID:2216
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-15 14:23:26
Subject:Defend Public Education! *Smash Schundler*
Message:

schundler plans to make NJ public schools worse, they're already the fourth 
most segregated in the nation. we must combat republican agendas that will 
ultimately bring about the worst conditions to New Jersey residents.

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/elections/ledger/14b571c.html

Republicans in the Garbage Can!
Vote Greasy! Expose Green$ as Rightwing Berets-

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Post ID:2217
Sender:"Louise Ammentorp" <lknesta@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-15 17:14:35
Subject:Fwd: CUNY Chancellor, Trustees Denounce Professors Who Criticized U.S. Policy After Attacks
Message:

>_________________________________________________________________
>
>   Friday, October 5, 2001
>
>
>
>   CUNY Chancellor, Trustees Denounce Professors Who Criticized
>   U.S. Policy After Attacks
>
>   By ROBIN WILSON
>
>
>
>   Trustees of the City University of New York have drafted a
>   resolution condemning professors who criticized U.S. foreign
>   policy at a teach-in earlier this week. Matthew Goldstein, the
>   university's chancellor, also issued a statement saying
>   professors had offered "lame excuses" to justify the September
>   11 terrorist attacks.
>
>   The professors who were denounced made their statements at a
>   teach-in Tuesday that was organized by the university's
>   faculty and staff union, the Professional Staff Congress.
>   Neither the trustees nor the chancellor attended the teach-in
>   at the City College campus in upper Manhattan, and have based
>   their reactions on articles in the New York Post. The articles
>   quoted Walter Daum, a mathematics lecturer at City College, as
>   telling the 200 people who attended: "The ultimate
>   responsibility lies with the rulers of this country, the
>   capitalist ruling class of this country."
>
>   The newspaper also quoted Bill Crain, a psychology professor
>   at City College, as saying he wanted "peace, not war," and
>   adding: "Our diplomacy is horrible."
>
>   Two members of the university's Board of Trustees have drafted
>   a resolution to be considered at the board's October 22
>   meeting. The draft, a copy of which was made available to The
>   Chronicle, calls the professors' statements "outrageous" and
>   says they have "with their selfish, tasteless, and unjustified
>   conduct, brought shame to the City University of New York."
>
>   Jeffrey S. Wiesenfeld, one of the trustees who drafted the
>   resolution, said it was "self-indulgent" of the professors to
>   express their sentiments just 100 blocks from the scene where
>   thousands lost their lives in the destruction of the World
>   Trade Center. Mr. Wiesenfeld said he feared that the
>   professors had damaged the university's reputation, and
>   although he said he realized that the trustees could not fire
>   the professors, he added: "They have the invitation to take a
>   hike."
>
>   Mr. Goldstein, the chancellor, said in his statement that it
>   was important not to compromise "the free exchange of ideas."
>   But he said he had "no sympathy for the voices of those who
>   seek to justify or make lame excuses for the attacks on the
>   World Trade Center and the Pentagon with arguments based on
>   ideological or historical circumstances." He added: "There are
>   no excuses for deliberate actions taken to kill innocent
>   people."
>
>   Mr. Crain, the psychology professor, said the Post had
>   distorted some professors' remarks, including his. He said he
>   had read a poem at the teach-in. "I said U.S. alliances have
>   shifted. We support one person, and then another, but the
>   constant is violence," he said in an interview. "We need to
>   address that and work for peace."
>
>   Mr. Daum said he had been quoted accurately, but he said he
>   had been trying to explain what may have led to the attacks,
>   not justify them. "In no way am I sympathetic to what was mass
>   murder," he said.
>
>   Barbara Bowen, president of the Professional Staff Congress,
>   said there is a difference between studying the attacks and
>   excusing them. She noted that the union itself had passed a
>   resolution before the teach-in, condemning the attacks. The
>   union's resolution also calls for CUNY to be "a safe harbor
>   for people and ideas."
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>
>Chronicle subscribers can read this article on the Web at this address:
>http://chronicle.com/free/2001/10/2001100502n.htm
>
>If you would like to have complete access to The Chronicle's Web
>site, a special subscription offer can be found at:
>
>    http://chronicle.com/4free
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>
>You may visit The Chronicle as follows:
>
>    * via the World-Wide Web, at http://chronicle.com
>    * via telnet at chronicle.com
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Copyright 2001 by The Chronicle of Higher Education


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Post ID:2218
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-15 19:20:54
Subject:lady sings the blues
Message:

Lady sings the blues

10/15/01

BY PETER FILICHIA
STAR-LEDGER STAFF

REVIEW


Lady Day at Emerson's Bar and Grill
Where: George Street Playhouse, 9 Livingston Ave., New Brunswick

When: Through Nov. 11. Tuesdays through Saturdays at 8 p.m., Sundays at 2 
and 7 p.m.
with assorted Thursday and Saturday matinees at 2 p.m.

How much: $30-$45. Call (732) 246-7717.

As superb as Suzzanne Douglas was last year when she appeared at the George 
Street
Playhouse in "Wit," she's trumping her own ace right now on the same stage 
in Lanie
Robertson's "Lady Day at Emerson's Bar and Grill."

New Brunswick theatergoers learned last October that Douglas was an amazing 
dramatic
actress, when she portrayed Dr. Vivian Bearing, the stern university 
professor who
regained her humanity only when diagnosed with ovarian cancer. But they had 
no reason to
believe that she could sing potent jazz and blues.

But Douglas can and does, while portraying noted jazz legend Billie Holiday, 
in one of the
entertainer's final gigs -- not at Carnegie Hall, where she once triumphed, 
but at a modest
neighborhood nightspot in Philadelphia.

Actually, that was fine with Holiday, who preferred to sing in intimate 
clubs where she
could become chummy with the patrons. The problem here, though, is that 
Holiday is in
danger of revealing too much to the crowd. As Sally Bowles would sing much 
later, "Well,
that's what comes from too much pills and liquor" -- not to mention heroin.

So, under Reggie Montgomery's taut direction, Douglas' Holiday staggers out, 
in a garish
pink gown that doesn't serve her well. Nor does it hide the three dark marks 
on her left arm,
evidence of drug injections. Her trademark gardenia is not in her hair, but 
clutched in her
hand, as if she's holding on to it for dear life.

While she sings, her arms suddenly lift up and twirl, as she desperately 
hopes that they'll
help her keep her balance. After a song, she gives the audience a generous 
smile, which
often immediately disappears, replaced by a furrowed brow and a frown that 
say, "Did that
go over? Are they seeing who I really am? Did I just get away with that?"

Meanwhile, Jimmy, her musical director, is at the piano, trying desperately 
to pretend that
nothing's wrong. He laughs too hard at her "jokes," in hopes that he'll 
convince the
audience that Holiday is just a free-wheeling entertainer who's sticking to 
her script. But he
can only carry this ruse so far, and occasionally must jump up and hope to 
get her on track.

Easier said than done. Holiday goes off-stage, presumably to shoot up, and 
comes back
with a Chihuahua in the palm of her hand. By this point, Douglas has already 
had the
audience exactly where the dog is sitting.

For that voice and song stylings have mesmerized them. As Douglas leans back 
on the
music, the audience leans forward, all the better to hear her soulful "When 
a Woman Loves
a Man," her jaunty "'Taint Nobody's Biz-ness If I Do," her joyous "Them 
There Eyes."
Give her a sirloin and a glass of champagne for her "Gimme a Pigfoot and a 
Bottle of
Beer."

But it wouldn't be a Billie Holiday biography if it didn't have her two 
signature songs on
hand, and Douglas does them both with an immense amount of feeling: "Strange 
Fruit"
and "God Bless the Child."

Indeed, but God has already blessed Suzzanne Douglas with an astonishing 
amount of
talent. God bless Douglas, too, for making what theatergoers will hope is at 
least an annual
appearance at the George Street Playhouse.

            � 2001 The Star-Ledger. Used by NJ.com with permission.

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Post ID:2219
Sender:Joseph Kaminski <jkaminsk@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-16 00:33:00
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] Defend Public Education! *Smash Schundler*
Message:

hell yeah, down with public schools... they suck anyways, like all public
services, always one step shittier than the privatized version.  Vote
Schundler, get rid of turnpike and parkway tolls !!

commies and anarchists in the garbdge can !! (Hey, look who i am !!!)

Joe Kaminski

On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, joseph smith wrote:

> schundler plans to make NJ public schools worse, they're already the fourth 
> most segregated in the nation. we must combat republican agendas that will 
> ultimately bring about the worst conditions to New Jersey residents.
> 
> http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/elections/ledger/14b571c.html
> 
> Republicans in the Garbage Can!
> Vote Greasy! Expose Green$ as Rightwing Berets-
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RUGreens-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2220
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-16 11:51:55
Subject:Fwd: Jerry Coleman For Governor and future elections.
Message:



>From: "Ray Higbee Jr" <whcoon@...>
>
>Dear RUGreens,
>               Despite the best efforts of Joe Smith and other small
>sects, Jerry Coleman is still the Green Party candidate for Governor,
>and will still recieve thousands of votes on November 6th. Sadly,
>RUGreens, and the NJCampusGreens overall, were in disarray this
>election season. We'll be ready for the 2002 election season when it
>comes. Thank you to everyone who has campaigned for Jerry Coleman in
>anyway this season!
>                                              Peacefully,
>                                                      Ray Higbee Jr
>                                                      NJ Campus Greens
>


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Post ID:2221
Sender:TheDailyTargum@...
Post Date/Time:2001-10-16 12:53:59
Subject:Hispanic male stabs, mugs student
Message:

Hispanic male stabs, mugs student
By: Melissa Hayes 


10/16/01
--------------------------

A 22-year-old Rutgers College senior was mugged and stabbed on Somerset Street at 3:30 a.m. Saturday. After going the Corner Tavern and Nova Terra, a restaurant on Albany Street, she was dropped off at home around 2:30 a.m., said a friend of the victim who requested anonymity. The friend said after he dropped the victim off, the victim went to a party with friends.

The victim left the party and arrived at home alone. While attempting to enter her residence at 270 Somerset St., she was approached from behind by a Hispanic male whom she did not know. The male grabbed her and dragged her into a nearby alley, Lt. Thomas Selesky of the New Brunswick Police Department said.

The assailant then asked the student for money and she gave him $5, Selesky said. He added that when 

the victim said she had only $5, the assailant began searching her pockets and she screamed. 

The male then stabbed the victim in the left arm and right chest cavity, causing her lung to collapse, Selesky said. 

She was taken to Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital on Little Albany Street, Selesky said.

The victim�s friend said she might be released from the hospital today.

A statement released by the Rutgers University Police Department described the perpetrator as a Hispanic male, about 5 feet 8 inches tall. 

The case is currently under investigation by the NBPD.

Any information regarding the incident should be reported to the NBPD or the RUPD.

--------------------------
Story Source: The Daily Targum








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2222
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-17 00:27:43
Subject:Re: How Coleman hurts all of us.
Message:

one left move for coleman - target bush2 and co. smash schundler! build the 
necessary & temporary alliance with greasy in order to provide the safest 
conditions for the peoples to organize THE independent movement.

for the peoples of NJ who is worse - schundler or mcgreevey?
you admit your plans to spoil elections for the democrats! but you are 
spoiling conditions for THE peoples independent movement you fools.

to fight the peoples enemy in battles that the people cannot win strengthens 
the peoples enemy. do you dispute this? and yet you understand you cannot 
win, so one must assume that your goal is to strengthen the peoples enemy - 
which is what is presently happening with the rise of international fascism 
under bush2 and the far right. where do you think schundler comes from?

the only way the people of NJ will be organized to win a gubernatorial 
election is when all the cities and towns are first organized and won. the 
people do not have the organization to elect a dog catcher in New Brunswick, 
yet ray higbee Jr will straighten everything out by 2002 to run a successful 
campaign for US senate? that is not a very scientific approach for 
organizing to win anything except REPUBLICAN positions.

dump coleman! attack greasy, defeat schundler!
joe smith
Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy


>From: "Ray Higbee Jr" <whcoon@...>
>To: RUGreens@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [RUGreens] How Jerry Coleman helps all of us.
>Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 03:33:26 -0000
>
>In respone to Mr. Smith's questions.
>
>Q. Can coleman win?
>
>    Most likely, not this year. While Jerry Coleman has the best the
>most progrssive positions of all candidates in this race, neither he
>nor the Green Party have the name regonition to win. The Green Party
>is a new idea, and most of the voters in the state do not know what
>we represent.
>
>Q. How does coleman's campaign serve the independent movement?
>
>    Jerry Coleman is running of the only "minor" political party with
>a true state-wide organization. We have county chapters small or
>large in every county in the state of New Jersey, and we are growing
>every day. He gives voters a choice aside from the Republican and
>Democratic parties, which are becoming harder to tell apart.
>Both "major" parties are playing centist with "left" or "right"
>tentancies. When was the last time either the Republican or the
>Democratic parties pushed for a living wage, or university health
>care?
>
>Q. Why are the njcampusgreens in disarray?
>
>    The NJCampusGreens are in disarray due to small organizational
>problems. Chapters at Montclair State, William Patterson, and Rowan
>Universities are strong. Rutgers New-Bruiswick and Drew Universities
>are suffering setbacks, which I will try to help rectify.
>
>What are your plans for the 2002 election season and how will they
>serve the peoples independent movement?
>
>    Which peoples indenpendent movement? There are several throughout
>the state of New Jersey and many throughout the United States.
>However, the majority of "the people" are not involved in an
>independent movement. The proof will be shown on Election Day, when
>97% of the 45% of the voters of NJ vote Republican or Democrat. The
>key to a sucessful people's movement is to bring in all members of
>society, and the majority lies in the middle class. For a "people's
>independent movement" to be truly effective, the majority must be, at
>the least, in silent support (see Richard Nixon's "Silent Majority").
>
>    As our candidates draw more support and move out of the 1-2% range
>into the 10-20% range, we shall be taken far more seriously by all
>voters. We will "spoil" some races for Democrats, and we'll be told
>that we're letting Republicans win! But guess what? Democrats are not
>all good, just as Republicans are not all bad. The world will not go
>hell. Instead, I imagine both Democrats and Republicans will try to
>co-op progressives positions and phrases (ex: Campaign Finance
>Reform) to get their votes back. In the end, the Green Party will be
>a "major" party, and progressives will have a party to call their
>own.
>
>    As for 2002, no one is positive. The only thing I know for certain
>is that we will have a U.S. Senate candidate. Ask me again in a
>couple of months.
>                                                Peacefully,
>                                                      Ray Higbee
>                                                      MSUGreens
>
>


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Post ID:2223
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-17 11:52:30
Subject:J&J profits soar on prescription drugs
Message:

J&J profits soar on prescription drugs

                     10/17/01

                     BY DAVID SCHWAB
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

                     In this disappointing earnings season, Johnson & 
Johnson is like a huge Band-Aid for hurting investors.

                     The huge health-care company based in New Brunswick 
yesterday reported third-quarter profit rose 16 percent, thanks to 
especially strong sales of prescription drugs.

                     The company's results were "nothing short of 
spectacular," said Kurt Kruger, a health-care analyst at Banc of America 
Securities.

                     J&J's performance was just the latest example of why 
drug companies often are viewed by analysts and investors as reliable stocks 
to own when the economy is floundering, on the theory that consumers will 
always need their medicines.

                     Shares of J&J, a component of the Dow Jones industrial 
average, rose $1.05, or 1.9 percent, to $56.77.

                     Since the beginning of the year, shares have risen 9.2 
percent, while the American Stock Exchange Pharmaceutical Index is down 
nearly 10 percent, still better than many industries.

                     Net earnings rose to $1.53 billion, or 49 cents per 
share, compared with $1.32 billion, or 43 cents per share, a year ago.

                     Pharmaceutical sales rose 16 percent worldwide. But 
Kruger and company executives noted year- over-year growth was really more 
like 22 percent, if you ignore factors such as currency fluctuations and 
irregular buying patterns of wholesalers, who often load up on drugs before 
scheduled price increases take effect.

                     "You can argue they were growing at 20 percent, which 
is really quite impressive," Kruger said.

                     Revenue for the quarter rose 10.8 percent to $8.24 
billion, with prescription drugs accounting for almost 45 percent, or $3.68 
billion.

                     Sales of medical devices, such as the stents used to 
unclog heart arteries, rose 9.3 percent, to $2.78 billion. Sales of consumer 
products, such as Neutrogena skin care products, rose 3.2 percent to $1.78 
billion.

                     Johnson & Johnson executives said increased consumer 
advertising helped to grow sales of two key prescription drugs: Procit and 
Remicade.

                     Procit sales in the United States grew by 62 percent to 
$742 million. The drug treats anemia associated with conditions such as 
cancer chemotherapy and AIDS.

                     It also can be taken by patients two weeks before 
elective surgeries, such as a hip replacement, to reduce the need to store 
blood for transfusions.

                     Sales of Remicade grew 153 percent to $202 million for 
the quarter.

                     Remicade, a treatment for Crohn's disease, an 
intestinal inflammation, also was used to treat the symptoms of rheumatoid 
arthritis, such as inflammation of the joints. In January, J&J announced the 
Food and Drug Administration approved using Remicade to help prevent the 
disease from getting worse.

                     J&J executives said Remicade sales also were bolstered 
by the fact that a competing drug, Enbrel, was in short supply because its 
manufacturer, Seattle-based Immunex Corp., couldn't produce enough. Enbrel 
is marketed with Madison-based American Home Products.

           David Schwab covers the drug industry. He can be reached at
                     dschwab@... or at (973) 392-5835.

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Post ID:2224
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-17 11:56:35
Subject:setback for organized labor
Message:

                     Labor Dept. nomination advances
                     10/17/01
                     THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

                     WASHINGTON -- In a big setback for organized labor, a 
Senate committee yesterday sent the nomination of Eugene Scalia as the Labor 
Department's top lawyer to the full Senate for consideration.

                     The Senate Health, Education and Labor Committee voted 
11-10 in favor of the nomination. Unions had lobbied intensely to defeat 
Scalia, a Washington labor lawyer and son of Supreme Court Justice Antonin 
Scalia, because of his opposition to a Clinton-era ergonomics regulation 
aimed at enhancing workplace safety. He had criticized the rule as 
"quackery" and "junk science."

                     "Mr. Scalia is well-known for his long-standing 
opposition to workers' rights and protections," said committee Chairman 
Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.). "Throughout his career, he has worked against 
job health and job safety protections for workers."

                     Sen. Jim Jeffords (I-Vt.) tipped the party-line vote in 
Scalia's favor. Republicans defended Scalia's views on the ergonomics 
regulation, saying that a majority in Congress also thought it was a bad 
rule when it was repealed in the spring.

                     Labor Secretary Elaine Chao urged the Senate to act 
quickly on the nomination, which has been pending for more than five months.

                     "We urge the opposition not to make this into a 
partisan litmus test," Chao said.

                     Scalia, at his confirmation hearing last month, said he 
thought ergonomics-related injuries existed. He said the regulation issued 
by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration last year went too far.

                     That regulation was repealed by Congress in March after 
a legislative battle that pitted business groups against labor unions. Chao 
plans to announce this month if the agency will pursue another regulation or 
a voluntary approach.

                     As labor solicitor, Scalia would be charged with 
enforcing nearly 200 labor laws. He would provide legal advice and guidance 
on virtually every initiative of the department in areas such as safety and 
health, minimum wage and pension security.

_________________________________________________________________
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Post ID:2225
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-17 12:10:15
Subject:Bride to be Slain by ex-boyfriend
Message:

Ex-boyfriend tells jury he blacked out before slaying
                     10/17/01
                     BY ANA M. ALAYA
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

                     Taking the witness stand in his own defense yesterday, 
Agustin Garcia said he felt betrayed and "blacked out" in the moments before 
he shot his longtime girlfriend to death in her Ridgefield home on the day 
she was to marry another man.

                     The North Bergen businessman and one-time leader of a 
large Dominican community testified that he was overcome at the site of 
Gladys Ricart in a wedding dress when he walked into her living room on the 
afternoon of July 26, 1999. It was the first time Garcia had spoken publicly 
about Ricart's shooting death.

                     "I felt betrayed and confused and I was upset, angry 
and confused," Garcia told a jury in state Superior Court in Hackensack, 
where he is on trial for Ricart's murder. "I felt like the universe was 
falling."

                     Garcia, who broke down in tears and hid his face from 
the court during parts of the proceedings yesterday, testified that he knew 
nothing of Ricart's wedding plans and even had sex with her in the week 
leading up to her planned betrothal to James Preston Jr.

                     On the day of the shooting, Garcia said he stopped by 
Ricart's home to talk to her about a reception they had planned on attending 
together, but saw limousines in front of the house. Puzzled because Ricart 
had told him she was going shopping that day, Garcia said he went into the 
house to find out what was going on. Suddenly, he said, he found himself 
being accosted by Ricart's son and brother, Juan Ricart.

                     "I felt myself blacking out and falling, and as I was 
falling I saw a white flash and a body falling, and I saw another white 
flash," Garcia said. "I remember struggling with Juan, and he was screaming 
'You killed my sister. You killed my sister,'" Garcia continued. "I got a 
sense of what was going on and I said I wanted to kill myself."

                     Punching the air to demonstrate the events leading up 
to the shooting, Garcia said he suffered a severe blow to the head by 
Ricart's son and was wrestled by her brother as soon as he entered her 
house. He said he shot his pistol in self-defense.

                     "I was shooting at anybody," Garcia said.

                     During the scuffle, Garcia testified, he said he wanted 
to kill himself, a statement he was heard shouting several times on a 
videotape that captured the tussle between him and Ricart's relatives and 
Ricart herself crumpling to the floor after Garcia fired his gun.

                     Ricart, 38, was shot three times, once in the head.

                     Garcia's lawyers have invoked a defense of "passion 
provocation," arguing that he was in the dark about Ricart's pending 
nuptials up until the day of her wedding.

                     If the jury agrees, it could find him guilty of 
manslaughter, a conviction that carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in 
prison. A murder conviction would mean a life sentence for Garcia, 49.

                     During cross-examination, First Assistant Bergen County 
Prosecutor Fred Schwanwede hammered away at Garcia's story, focusing in part 
on a statement he made to police detectives shortly after his arrest, much 
of which he denied stating during his testimony yesterday.

                     "According to the statement, you knew that Gladys 
Ricart was seeing another man," Schwanwede said.

                     Garcia denied making the statement, and also refuted 
the earlier testimony of prosecution witnesses who said that he not only 
stalked Ricart in the days before her pending marriage but also knew she was 
about to tie the knot with someone else.

                     Prosecutors insist Garcia killed Ricart because he 
could not stand that she was about to marry another man. They claim he 
circled the house several times that day before going in with a loaded gun 
in his briefcase.

                     "Gladys was shot three times, at close range," said 
Schwanwede, waving the silver .38 caliber revolver used to kill Ricart. "You 
have no idea how that happened? You were having a blackout?" he asked 
Garcia.

                     "That is correct," Garcia replied, prompting Schwanwede 
to slam the gun on the table in exasperation.

                     Much of Garcia's testimony yesterday focused on his 
rocky relationship with Ricart, which he said began in 1992 when he met her 
on a subway in New York, where he lived. He said they fell in love, lived 
together for several years in North Bergen, and continued to see each other 
even after a short breakup, during which he saw another woman.

                     He spoke of problems he and Ricart had with children 
from previous relationships and jealousies that caused them to split 
temporarily, but stressed they kept getting back together.

                     Dressed in a gray suit, Garcia told the jury that 
Ricart helped him with the travel agency and beauty salon he owned and 
attended many functions with him for the Asociaciones Dominicanas, a 
nonprofit group that caters to the Dominican community in New York, for 
which he served as president for many years.

                     "We were a couple," Garcia said. "We did everything 
together, from shopping to going to church to doing the finances." They 
planned to get married in March 1998, but called it off after a dispute, he 
said.

                     On the night before Ricart's planned wedding, Garcia 
said Ricart slept over their house and that they had intimate relations, 
although they did not have sex. They also went to a local supermarket 
together after 1 a.m. to buy feminine products. The supermarket visit was 
captured on the store's security videotape.

                     About five times during yesterday's proceedings, Judge 
William C. Meehan instructed jurors to dismiss what the prosecution deemed 
were leading questions by the defense attorney, Raymond Colon. There are 
eight women and seven men on the jury. Twelve will be chosen to render a 
verdict when deliberations begin, expected by the end of the week.


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Post ID:2226
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-17 12:16:49
Subject:Jersey women still earn less than men
Message:

Jersey women still earn less than men

                     10/17/01

                     BY TOM HESTER
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

                     New Jersey women who work full-time earn higher pay on 
average than their counterparts around the nation, but 25 percent less than 
male New Jersey workers.

                     The median hourly wage of full-time working women in 
New Jersey is $11.25, compared with $10 nationwide. Men in New Jersey earn 
an average $15 an hour, while nationally the median wage for males is 
$12.50.

                     The figures are contained in a report on the status of 
New Jersey women released yesterday in Trenton by the Rutgers University 
Institute for Women's Leadership and the state Division on Women.

                     The document is the first of its type to be released in 
the state in eight years, according to women's rights activists, and they 
hope to see the findings used to set public policy on women's issues.

                     "Despite relatively high salaries, the earning 
disparity between men and women remains," said Linda B. Bowker, the Division 
on Women director. "More women are likely to be poor because they are women, 
and women of color are more likely than white women to be unemployed."

                     The report said white women in New Jersey earn an 
average $11.53 an hour compared with $10 nationally, while black women in 
the state make an average $10 an hour compared with $9 nationally. White men 
in New Jersey make an average $16 and black men earn an average $12.96.

                     New Jersey women are also 1.6 times more likely than 
New Jersey men to earn at or below the poverty level. And New Jersey 
minority women have the highest rates of unemployment: 9.9 percent for 
African-American women, and 7 percent for Hispanic women, compared with 3.9 
percent for white women.

                     Among the "vital statistics" in the report, Bowker 
said, "are marked increases in the older population, more mothers in the 
labor force, larger numbers of mostly female single parents, and a shift 
upward in women's and men's marriage ages."

                     Among the report's findings:

                       Over the past decade, the number of divorced women in 
New Jersey increased from 230,000 to 275,000, an increase of 19.6 percent to 
8.1 percent of all women. The percentage of women who are separated, 
divorced or widowed grew from 22.4 to 22.7 during the past decade.

                       The average annual income for female-headed 
households in New Jersey is $30,585 vs. $70,126 for a married-couple 
household.

                       Nearly 64 percent of New Jersey mothers with children 
under age 6 work, up 51.4 percent in the past decade.

                       During the same period, the percentage of 
female-headed households in New Jersey living below the poverty level fell 
from 28.1 percent to 21.8 percent.

                       Thirty-one percent of New Jersey women employed 
full-time earn at or below the poverty level, slightly below the national 
average of 38.9 percent for all women.

                       The number of New Jersey women with at least some 
college education jumped by 35.4 percent to 361,310 women in the past 
decade.

                     The report "illuminates trends that have broad public 
policy implications in matters relating to child care, elder care, flexible 
work policies, education and other areas," said Jane M. Kenny, state 
Community Affairs commissioner. "It's the kind of information that can 
improve the status of women by showing what has been achieved and where 
challenges remain."

                     Professor Mary S. Hartman, the Institute for Women's 
Leadership director, said copies of the report will be disseminated to 
elected officials and business and union leaders statewide.

          Tom Hester covers state government. He can be reached at
                     thester@... or (609) 292-0557.


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Post ID:2227
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-17 12:31:14
Subject:woman murdered & dismembered
Message:

                     Jury pool screened in capital murder
                     trial

                     10/17/01

                     BY DORE CARROLL
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

                     Jury selection began yesterday in the capital murder 
trial of a South River man accused of shooting his girlfriend in their 
bedroom and dismembering her body to conceal the crime.

                     George Jenewicz, 48, is charged with murder and 
hindering apprehension for allegedly shooting Eunice Gillens-Joseph, 42, 
once in the chest on Oct. 22, 1998.

                     If Jenewicz is convicted, Middlesex County Prosecutor 
Glenn Berman has said the state will seek the death penalty because of the 
way he killed her and then abused and cut up the body.

                     In his New Brunswick courtroom, Superior Court Judge 
Travis Francis began screening a pool of 150 potential jurors. He asked each 
to fill out a 30-page questionnaire and then scheduled them to return next 
week for individual interviews with him and the attorneys.

                     The process of selecting jurors qualified to serve on 
the lengthy and gruesome death penalty case will take approximately four 
weeks. Jurors will return on Jan. 8, when the five-week trial is scheduled 
to begin.

                     Jenewicz, a former biology technician with a history of 
alcoholism, met Gillens-Joseph at a halfway house, and the couple had been 
living together for five months when he allegedly killed her.

                     Police were called to Jenewicz's Cleveland Avenue home 
by a friend days later and found Gillens-Joseph's body
dismembered.

                     Investigators also found a licensed handgun they 
believe Jewewicz used to shoot Gillens-Joseph, several shotguns and rifles, 
a hacksaw and hatchet, and a mop to clean up the blood.

                     Berman and Assistant Prosecutor Joseph Rea, who is also 
working on the case, said at a hearing in June that Jenewicz confessed to 
the crime in a discussion with his former cellmate at the Middlesex County 
jail.

                     The cellmate, Richard Selert, told investigators that 
Jenewicz said he plastered over a hole in the bedroom wall where the bullet 
lodged after passing through the victim's body.

                     Jenewicz's attorney, Steve Altman of New Brunswick, has 
argued that the cellmate's statement should not be admitted at trial.

                     Jenewicz's previous attorney said he shot 
Gillens-Joseph after an argument over money, when she pointed a gun at him.

                     Jenewicz has been held at the Middlesex County jail 
since his arrest.

	 Dore Carroll covers the Middlesex County Courthouse. She can be
		reached at dcarroll@... or (732) 249-5670.

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Post ID:2228
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-17 22:08:18
Subject:Jericho Movement Statement
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is a proud member and supporter of the 
Jericho Movement.  Please forward, read, participate in and send out this 
email/statement.

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

The Jericho Movement

P.O. Box 650,
New York, NY 10009 (212) 502-1143

For Immediate Release
Contact Person: Safiya Bukhari
Contact Number: (917) 407 7496

For background information on political prisoners see:
www.thejerichomovement.com


Political Prisoners and Others Locked Down Following
September 11th Actions


The social and political pandemonium following the
attacks against the World Trade Center and the
Pentagon is allowing many governmental policies to be
implemented with virtually no scrutiny from the
general public. The most drastic of these measures to
date has been the ability for repressive institutions
within the United States government to increase their
repression with impunity, particularly the Immigration
and Naturalization Service (INS), law enforcement
agencies and the prison system.



Within hours of the September 11th attacks political
prisoners and POWs across the country were surgically
removed from general population and thrown into
Security Housing Units. They were classified as being
placed in Administrative Segregation and detained
officially "for investigation". Known to be included
in the roundup were Marilyn Buck, Tom Manning, Carlos
Alberto Torres, Sundiata Acoli, Richard Williams,
Father Philip Berrigan, Kojo Bomani Sababu, Haydee
Beltran and Larry Giddings. Also targeted were
muslims. These actions were the results of orders that
originated in the US Department of Justice and came
through the Federal Bureau of Prisons.



Depending on the on which institution contacted and
the individual political prisoner inquired after, the
reason given for this unprecedented denial of access
was different, despite the fact that the orders came
from one source. Each institution interpreted the
order inconsistently. Some said that any prisoner
having explosives on their records were segregated
out, other said that it was - as in the case of Father
Philip Berrigan - for his own protection. Father
Philip Berrigan has never had a threat posed against
him by another inmate. Who then was he being protected
from? He has since been released to general
population. Some, like Marilyn Buck and Tom Manning,
were supposedly being held *for investigation* despite
the fact that both of them have been incarcerated for
over 20 years. Muslims, in general, have been locked
down and in some cases, such as Lewisburg and
Leavenworth, remain locked down.



In Lewisburg, PA, for example, political prisoner
Larry Giddings was held incommunicado for 21 days. He
was finally released on Thursday, October 4th. The
muslims that were locked down at the same time he was
remain so. Also, known to be still on lock down are
political prisoners Sundiata Acoli, Carlos Alberto
Torres and Kojo Bomani Sababu. Very effort is being
made to determine the status of others.



Political prisoners and prisoners in general have been
subjected to lockdowns ostensibly for security reasons
before. The big difference in these lockdowns is the
fact that they are being denied access to lawyers by
phone and/or visits. The right of access to courts has
been a fundamental right that has not been violated
before. This denial of access to lawyers makes it
impossible for them to protest these unjust actions
and conditions they are being held under as well as
making it impossible for families, friends and
supporters to determine how they are.



We submit that the real reasons for the lockdown of
these political prisoners and prisoners of war at this
time is to further alienate them and criminalize them.
The government of the United States continues to deny
the existence of political prisoners inside the
prisons and jails of this country. They have denied
that there are legitimate political struggles for
freedom, liberation and human rights going on within
the borders of the United States. They have long
sought to label those involved in such struggles as
"terrorists". We submit that this latest move against
the political prisoners and prisoners of war is
another step in defining them as terrorist and thereby
vindicating themselves in their handling of these
people - another step toward criminalizing dissent in
the United States. This could only be the logical
reason for what is happening here. These people pose
no physical threat to the United States, unless the
power of reasoned analysis is a threat.



In a paper presented at the 60th International
Federation of Library Associations (IFLA) Conference
in August of 1994 Vibeke Lehman, Library Services
Coordinator fo the Wisconsin Department of Corrections
wrote; "In the United States, inmates in both state
and federal prisons are guaranteed certain
constitutional and civil rights. They include freedom
from cruel and unusual punishment, the right to due
process, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the
right to adequate medical care, freedom from racial
discrimination, and the right to access to the courts.
Only in unusual circumstances and fr the sake of
safety and security may limitations be imposed on
these right." The US government has denied these
prisoners these rights without just cause or and
without legitimate reason.



US corrections authorities and politicians have
traditionally used times of crisis to strip inmates of
the few rights they retain and to mete out additional
repression to political dissidents. In the wake of the
tragic loss of life that we have all witnessed, we
have seen the best of humanity as well as the worst.
The behavior of those who attempt to use these hard
times to strip their fellow human beings of their
rights is as criminal as the anti-arab and anti-muslim
hate crimes that we have nationally condemned. We need
to hold Attorney General John Ashcroft and the Bureau
of Prisons directly responsible for these abuses of
prisoners* rights.



We call on everyone with a conscious to write to the
addresses below to let them know that their actions
have not gone unnoticed and to demand an end to the
lockdowns and a return the right to mail, visits and
counsel to the prison population victimized by
September 11th.

Attorney General John Ashcroft�� Kathleen Hawk Sawyer

U.S. Department of Justice�� Director, Federal Bureau
of Prisons

950 Pennsylvania Ave, NW�� 320 First Street, NW

Washington, DC 20534��� Washington, DC 20534

E-mail: AskDOJ@...�� FAX: (202) 514-6620

FAX: (202) 514-5331�� ` Phone: (202) 307-6300

Phone: (202) 353-1555





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Post ID:2229
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-18 10:42:09
Subject:Re: SOS-Joe
Message:

[for other people reading, this is an exchange i am having that i would like 
to be as open as possible with, if anyone has questions i'll answer]

amiri, you wanna call me and cliff names when your edit board refused to 
print during the 2000campaign? matt, keith, and louise hung you&S out to 
dry- but it is myself and cliff who are called names. in the past two 
presidential elections where was U&S? why did matt, keith, and louise push 
boycott in '96 with dung&fraud? why did matt sabatoge you&S in 2000? why did 
keith run for city council as a registered republican? why did matthew 
embrace republican curtis and not the community of new brunswick for 
five/six years of organizing? why does keith continue to organize with 
flavier on flavier's terms? why is fraud speaking at the same rallies as 
keith and noboby knows they have different lines about an election that is 
in 20 days?

not only is your edit board historically fucked up as far as getting out the 
U&S line, but it has also engineered expelling myself, cliff, and many 
others from multiple organizations. their tightest unity has come only 
through opposing us. and it continues in the RED collective (flavier), an 
organization that exists only to oppose SWORD and U&S. the RED collective 
has already engineered an expulsion of SWORD from the anti-war coalition, no 
thanks to keith who should be letting people know who xavier and RED 
collective are and where they come from. all keith argues is that splits are 
bad... not that the people calling for the splits, flavier, are 
anti-progress and pro-republican. that the RED collective is responsible for 
NB republican chair being appointed by trenton DCA to NB Housing Authority 
(only republican to fill any position in new brunswick in 30 years).

i want to see U&S with 2 open positions  - 1. who the RED collective is and 
why they oppose the peoples independent political movement. 2. a self 
examination of the past 6 years of who U&S was wasn't and is - along with 
specific answers to the above questions in ink.

you wanna say our differences are about the question of reparations. you 
yourself say "white people aren't gunna let us have free education alone, 
which is alright..." in a U&S video of yourself. and because SWORD maintains 
that women's oppression is primary to national and class oppression. though 
these are ideological differences, that is differences between what you and 
i think, you say SWORD cannot work on the edit staff of U&S based on these 
differences. SWORD maintains that it must be our revolutionary practice that 
brings us together, that forces doing revolutionary work must embrace & 
unite. let our lines be argued openly in the paper so the people can 
participate.

i said fuck you because you refered to me as an anarchist and because you 
refered to cliff as an asshole and i don't appreciate it.

revolutionaries unite 2001

joe smith
Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy


From: Amirib@...
To: can_bush@...
Subject: Re: [njfo] Fwd: [nbpc] Re:] SOS-Joe
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:51:06 EDT

  A "simile" , like or as, is not the same as direct statement. You didn't 
say "should I say something like "Fuck you". You can make a sound LIKE a car 
and dont be that.
Grammar 101

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2230
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-18 12:55:50
Subject:Fwd: The Pacifica Crisis and 9-11
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: Pacifica Campaign <pacificacampaign@...>
To: Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...>
Subject: The Pacifica Crisis and 9-11
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:44:34 -0400



The Pacifica Crisis, Independent Media, and 9-11
Pacifica Campaign Forums in California, New York, and Washington, DC

October 19-October 21
Live Internet Broadcasts on WBIX.ORG


In New York City
Black Media at the Crossroads
What Path Do We Take After September 11th?

What unique price will African Americans and peoples of color incur in the 
aftermath of the World Trade Center tragedy? How will new legislation, 
institutionalizing racial profiling, affect our day to day lives? Join us, 
as these and other questions are answered on Friday, Oct. 19, 2001, 7-10pm 
EST.

Rebroadcast on http://www.wbix.org on Saturday, Oct. 20, 11am EST.

Speakers include: Gil Noble, host of "Like It Is" (WABC-TV); Mario Murillo, 
"Our Americas" (WBAI-FM); Don Rojas, editor of "The Black World Today" 
(http://www.tbwt.com), and Joan Gibbs, civil rights attorney. Moderator: 
Bernard White, former WBAI Program Director/Former Host of "Wake Up Call" 
(WBAI-FM).

The forum will take place at the Brooklyn, NY, campus of Long Island 
University on Friday, Oct. 19, 2001, from 7-10pm. It will be in the Health 
Sciences Building, Room #107, corner of DeKalb and Flatbush Ave. Trains: D, 
M, N, Q, R, to Dekalb Ave. of #2, 3, 4, or 5 to Nevins St. For additional 
information call: (718) 488-1153 or (646) 230-9588.


In Washington, DC
War, Peace & the USA
Live Radio from Washington's All Souls Church
16th and Harvard Street, NW
Saturday, October 20, 6pm

WBIX.ORG presents War, Peace & the USA with greater DC community and leaders 
of the Latino, African, Asian, Muslim, Jewish, Indigenous and Arab-American 
communities, as well as legal, foreign policy & media experts with Errol 
Maitland, Ryme Katkhouda, and music with spoken word from DC.

Broadcast live on http://www.wbix.org on Saturday, Oct. 20, 6pm EST.


In Southern California
Terrorism, War, & the Media:
What You Don't Hear in Mainstream Media
The Blackout of the Peace Movement & Racist Hysteria

A Series of Forums with Two of America's Leading Media Critics

David Barsamian, founder and director of Alternative Radio 
(www.alternativeradio.org), the award-winning Boulder-based weekly 
independent radio program that airs on more than 125 public radio stations. 
Mr. Barsamian is a co-author of many books with Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, 
Eqbal Ahmad, and Edward Said.

Laura Flanders, host of Working Assets Radio broadcast daily on KLLW in San 
Francisco. She is the author of "Real Majority, Media Minority: The Cost of 
Sidelining Women in Reporting." Her Spin Doctor Laura columns appear daily 
at http://www.workingforchange.com.

Guest Speakers:

*Sonali Kolhatkar, is the Vice President of the Afghan Women's Mission 
http://afghanwomensmission.org, a US-based organization which supports the 
humanitarian efforts and awareness of the Revolutionary Association of the 
Women of Afghanistan (RAWA).

*Prof. Glen Mimura, UCI Asian American Studies, Lessons from the 
Japanese-American Internment

*Alan Minsky, LA Independent Media Center (http://www.la.indymedia.org)

Los Angeles/UCLA
Friday, Oct. 19, 2 PM
For exact location call (323) 878-5680

Long Beach
Friday, Oct. 19, 7:30 PM
First Congregational Church, 241 Cedar Ave, LB
For information call: (562) 434-5876

Orange County
Saturday, Oct. 20, 3 PM
University of California, Irvine/Social Sciences Lecture Hall
For information call: (323) 878-5680

LA/Los Feliz
Sunday, Oct. 21, 1 PM
Skylight Books, 1818 N. Vermont, Los Feliz, 90027
For information call  (323) 660-1175

SF Valley
Sunday, Oct. 21, 5 PM
The Onion (Unitarian Universalist Church),
9550 Haskell Ave. North Hills
For information call (805) 527-3470

Organized by: Pacifica Campaign LA, Hollywood/Echo Park Free Pacifica 
Neighborhood Network, Ventura County Free Speech Network, The Social 
Concerns Committee of the Onion, Act for Global Justice (UCI), Academia and 
Action (UCI), The Environmental Coalition (UCLA).

For more information contact the Pacifica Campaign 
(http://www.pacificacampaign.org), a national organization of staff and 
listeners alike working to preserve Pacifica's 50-year tradition of 
community-based, listener-sponsored radio.

In LA, we are struggling to restore KPFK 90.7 FM to Pacifica's mission -- 
Tel: (323) 878-5680 or E-mail: pacificacampaignla@...


*********************
The Pacifica Campaign is a grass-roots organization representing listeners 
and staff alike, fighting to preserve Pacifica's 50-year tradition of 
progressive, community-based radio. For more info go to: 
http://www.pacificacampaign.org

Pacifica Campaign
51 MacDougal St., #80
New York, NY  10012
(646) 230-9588




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2231
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-18 13:18:00
Subject:Teach-In tonight
Message:


The Anti-War Coalition at Rutgers is holding a teach-in on the new war,
strategies for organizing, and planning for unity; a discussion to answer 
the question, "Where do we go from here?"
Come listen, learn and discuss!

With panelists:
Amiri Baraka of Unity and Struggle
Eric Boehm of the RU Political Science Department
Marina Sitrin of the Institute for Anarchist Studies
Richard Dienst of the RU English Department

tonight Thursday, October 18
7:00 PM
Faculty Dining Room
Douglass College Center
New Brunswick, NJ

For more information, contact Charlotte Kates at ckates@...


>Charlotte L. Kates****ckates@...****clkates@...
>              http://www.offlines.org/-Freedom from Scientology
>  http://members.nbci.com/justinusa/-JUSTIN: Justice International
>     Practice organized resistance and conscious acts of solidarity!
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2233
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-19 01:38:20
Subject:impeach rally!
Message:

proposal to the anti-war coalition:

sword proposes our next rally be an impeach rally! and that it unites
local energies to get out the vote to defeat schundler.

when do the representatives meet again and where? joe smith

revolutionaries must also begin to embrace the discussion of how best to 
counter the opportunists within the united front against imperialism 2001.



>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: "njfo@egroups.com" <njfo@yahoogroups.com>,        
>"nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com" <nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com>,        one 
>people <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [njfo] [Fwd: [minefield] Fwd: Federal Instructions In Case Of 
>Peace Rally]
>Date: Mon, 14 Jan 1980 10:52:05 -0500
>
>Here is something for those who like to monitor the backward
><< message5.txt >>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2234
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-19 12:54:54
Subject:Political Prisoner Activity
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign urges people to take some time out to 
attend this event.
Support all Activities that call for the release of all U.S. Held Political 
Prisoners!!

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
New York City Anarchist Black Cross presents:
An evening of information and entertainment.
featuring;
-the music of Chris & Steph
-prison films
-information of political prisoners/prisoners of war and what you can do to
help them in their struggle for liberation
-Prison letter writing
-cheap buffet
-bike valet

TUESDAY OCTOBER 23rd,
7pm - 11pm
ABC-NORIO
156 Rivington ST.
SLIDING SCALE ADMISSION/ BRING A STAMP!

take the j/m/z or F trains to essex/delancy st, walk north on essex 2 
blocks,
right on rivington.

This event is part an attempt to raise awarness about the existance of
political prisoners and prisoners of war in the United States, as well as 
part
of a letter writing campaign that NYC-ABC and other prisoner support groups 
are
engaged in to help free Political Prisoner Ali Khallid Abdullah, founder of 
the
Political Prisoners of War Coalition.
For more information on Anarchist Black Cross contact us at:
nycblackcross@...

FREE ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS/PRISONERS OF WAR! ABOLISH ALL PRISONS!

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2235
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-10-20 00:31:55
Subject:nb peoples campaign meeting
Message:

peoples campaign 2002
unite the many, defeat the few!

12noon, sat, 3 nov.
nb public library








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2236
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-21 12:28:37
Subject:Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice
Message:

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice will be having its next 
organizer's meeting this Thursday October 25th at 6pm at I.S. 164 on 
w164th-w165th St. and Edgecombe Avenue (Take the A,1,9 to w168th St. and 
Columbia Presbyterian and walk up from Broadway to Edgecombe Avenue).

We are calling on LATIN@ organizations and individuals to join us to build 
this Anti-War and Anti-Racist coalition.

For more information please contact 718-601-4751 or email 
LatinCPJ@...
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice is a coalition of different
organizations, individuals, churches, political organizations, and youth 
groups that
have come together to educate, organize, and mobilize the Latino Communities
in New York as an effort to support the current Anti-War and Anti-Racist
movement.� We recognize that this war is racist and imperialist.��We
exist as a coalition to address the direct impact that this war is having
and going to have in the Latino Community of New York.

Already, we have seen that the $40 Billion that is going to finance this war
is coming from youth service agencies, GED/Public education programs, Public
Assistance Programs, and Public Afterschool/Day care funds.� These cuts in
the funds allocated to Community Based Organizations and Public Service
groups are having a negative effect in the Latin@ community.� We have young
people being denied the right to receive their educational equivalences,
working parents have no place to send their children after school, and
working class people are being denied access to public funds to buy food.

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice recognizes that the U.S.
Military Recruitment drive and Police Academy Recruitment in the Latin@
community has risen by nearly 35%.� By taking away educational funds from
high schools and GED programs, our youth have no choice but to seek
employment in the Armed Services or Police Academy.� The Military is
recruiting youth from Latin@ working class communities because they see this
as an excellent opportunity to fill their ranks with people who will be the
first to enter war zones and die.� The Police also sees this as an
opportunity to gain more recruits to help- oppress social justice and
anti-war activists who will be hitting the streets protesting and organizing
against the war.� Our youth are being turned into soldiers to support
American imperialism and Police men to help oppress their own communities.

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice also exists to combat the
message that the mass media has been promoting since Sept. 11th.� This
indirect and pro-war message that Arabs and Islam are to blame for the war
has manifested itself in Latin@s engaging in acts of violence against Arab
youth in the Bronx and Brooklyn.� The Latin@ Coaltion for Peace with Justice
sees these acts of violence as our communities expressing their
media-inspired fear, confusion and vicitimization.� Therefore, the Coalition
will be focusing in on educating our community about the current war crisis,
the need for international solidarity and peace among all oppressed peoples.

This coalition is also going to address the plight of the many undocumented
Latin@s in our communities who have become the victims of increased INS
raids that have ended with the brutalization and death of many these
hard-working immigrants.� This war has become an opportunity to fuel
xenophobia and mistrust of immigrant communities.� This xenophobia has made
the Pro-Amnesty movement for undocumented workers very difficult.� Many
undocumented people in Latin@ communities have become fearful for their
safety and have been forced to live under even worse living conditions then
before.

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice believes in the need to
prioritize in the education and mobilization of the Latin@ community.� As a
working class people of color community, we are directly impacted by the
negative repercussions of this war.� We see it as our duty to address these
issues in our communities; and do what we can to promote peace and
solidarity among all communities.

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice:
ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
The Vieques Support Campaign
The Working Group On Puerto Rico/Frente Socialista
La Iglesia San Romero de Las Americas
La Iglesia San Juan Bautista
M!
Bronx Community College's Student Government
Poder Latino
Casa Atabex Ache












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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2237
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-22 12:48:14
Subject:FREE ALVARO LUNA HERNANDEZ!!
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is asking all our supporters to take time 
out to particiapte in the national  letter writing call that the Alvaro Luna 
Hernandez Freedom Coalition has put out!!  If you want more information on 
Mexican Prisoner of War Alvaro Luna Hernandez please got to 
http://www.freealvaro.org

FREE ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
_____________________________________________________________________
OCTOBER UPDATE | Over the last several weeks, Chicano
         Mexicano Prisoner of War Alvaro Luna Hernandez has been
         the target of a bogus investigation and, as a result, has
         been placed in solitary confinement as a means to silence
         him. We again must speak out on what is happening and
         defend our comrade with letters, protests and more.

         On Aug. 3, the prison "gang unit" went through Alvaro's cell
         under the auspices of investigating recent
         Mexicano-on-Mexicano stabbings in the Beto Unit. The
         political nature of this investigation should be clear by the
         fact no violence occurred on Alvaro's cellblock at all. 
Authorities, under order of the warden, were
         given authorization to search Alvaro's legal materials for "written 
contraband." This request was
         made by Sgt. William Kirk, Security Threat Gangs Coordinator.

         During that search, guards discovered a handwritten letter to 
Alvaro, asking him to pass a letter for
         peace among jailed Latinos (no groups were mentioned). Authorities 
used this "evidence" to pull
         Alvaro from his cell and transfer him to X-Wing under investigation 
for alleged affiliation with both
         the Mexican Mafia and San Antonio Tango "gangs."

         To anyone with even a slight clue, these charges are absurd and 
plainly demonstrate the fear these
         officials have of organizers like Alvaro. This Prisoner of War has 
consistently and completely denied
         all affiliations with gangs. Alvaro considers himself first and 
foremost a revolutionary, and prison
         officials want him out of general population because of his 
politics and history as a fighter for
         oppressed people. They know Alvaro is supported by many Mexicanos 
and dread any type of
         organized prisoner politicization, as Alvaro has a history of 
leading, and will do whatever it takes to
         silence him. We need to not let that happen.

         Texas prison officials have a long history of attempting to silence 
organizers by labelling them "gang
         members" because gangsters are routinely subjected to harsh 
punishment, isolation and few are
         able to defend against these attempts to discredit and demoralize 
our movements. Prisoncrats did
         the same to prisoners in the Amistad-March 31 organization and the 
Five Percent Nation in the
         1990s. Today, they are attempting to do this to Alvaro, and we must 
take action now to stop it.

         Please contact the following people to demand harassment against 
Alvaro Luna Hernandez.

         Ray Thompson, Warden
         Beto Prison
         P. O. Box 128
         Tennessee Colony, TX 75880
         Phone: (903) 928-2217

         Alfred M. Stringfellow, Chairman
         Texas Board of Criminal Justice
         P. O. Box 13084
         Austin, Texas 78711
         Phone: (512) 475-3250
         Fax: (512) 305-9398

         When you write your letters, please be polite but firm. You are 
encouraged to focus on three
         demands:

         1.) Release Alvaro Luna Hernandez from solitary confinement/X-Wing 
and return him to general
         population, with all his personal and legal materials intact;

         2.) End all investigations, harassment and retaliation against 
Alvaro Luna Hernandez; and

         3.) End all official efforts to label Alvaro Luna Hernandez as a 
gang member or as being affiliated
         with gangs -- these are false allegations.

         Please write at your earliest convenience. Earlier this year, your 
support reversed retaliation against
         Alvaro. Your support is again needed. Those interested in being 
regional organizers for the campaign
         to free Alvaro are encouraged to get in touch.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2238
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-23 10:43:23
Subject:Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice/Repost
Message:

>The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice will be having its next
>organizer's meeting this Thursday October 25th at 6pm at I.S. 164 on
>w164th-w165th St. and Edgecombe Avenue (Take the A,1,9 to w168th St. and 
>Columbia Presbyterian and walk up from Broadway to Edgecombe Avenue).
>
>We are calling on LATIN@ organizations and individuals to join us to build 
>this Anti-War and Anti-Racist coalition.
>
>For more information please contact 718-601-4751 or email
>LatinCPJ@...
>_______________________________________________________________________________________________
>The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice is a coalition of different
>organizations, individuals, churches, political organizations, and youth
>groups that
>have come together to educate, organize, and mobilize the Latino 
>Communities
>in New York as an effort to support the current Anti-War and Anti-Racist
>movement.� We recognize that this war is racist and imperialist.��We
>exist as a coalition to address the direct impact that this war is having
>and going to have in the Latino Community of New York.
>
>Already, we have seen that the $40 Billion that is going to finance this 
>war
>is coming from youth service agencies, GED/Public education programs, 
>Public
>Assistance Programs, and Public Afterschool/Day care funds.� These cuts in
>the funds allocated to Community Based Organizations and Public Service
>groups are having a negative effect in the Latin@ community.� We have young
>people being denied the right to receive their educational equivalences,
>working parents have no place to send their children after school, and
>working class people are being denied access to public funds to buy food.
>
>The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice recognizes that the U.S.
>Military Recruitment drive and Police Academy Recruitment in the Latin@
>community has risen by nearly 35%.� By taking away educational funds from
>high schools and GED programs, our youth have no choice but to seek
>employment in the Armed Services or Police Academy.� The Military is
>recruiting youth from Latin@ working class communities because they see 
>this
>as an excellent opportunity to fill their ranks with people who will be the
>first to enter war zones and die.� The Police also sees this as an
>opportunity to gain more recruits to help- oppress social justice and
>anti-war activists who will be hitting the streets protesting and 
>organizing
>against the war.� Our youth are being turned into soldiers to support
>American imperialism and Police men to help oppress their own communities.
>
>The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice also exists to combat the
>message that the mass media has been promoting since Sept. 11th.� This
>indirect and pro-war message that Arabs and Islam are to blame for the war
>has manifested itself in Latin@s engaging in acts of violence against Arab
>youth in the Bronx and Brooklyn.� The Latin@ Coaltion for Peace with 
>Justice
>sees these acts of violence as our communities expressing their
>media-inspired fear, confusion and vicitimization.� Therefore, the 
>Coalition
>will be focusing in on educating our community about the current war 
>crisis,
>the need for international solidarity and peace among all oppressed 
>peoples.
>
>This coalition is also going to address the plight of the many undocumented
>Latin@s in our communities who have become the victims of increased INS
>raids that have ended with the brutalization and death of many these
>hard-working immigrants.� This war has become an opportunity to fuel
>xenophobia and mistrust of immigrant communities.� This xenophobia has made
>the Pro-Amnesty movement for undocumented workers very difficult.� Many
>undocumented people in Latin@ communities have become fearful for their
>safety and have been forced to live under even worse living conditions then
>before.
>
>The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice believes in the need to
>prioritize in the education and mobilization of the Latin@ community.� As a
>working class people of color community, we are directly impacted by the
>negative repercussions of this war.� We see it as our duty to address these
>issues in our communities; and do what we can to promote peace and
>solidarity among all communities.
>
>The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice:
>ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
>The Vieques Support Campaign
>The Working Group On Puerto Rico/Frente Socialista
>La Iglesia San Romero de Las Americas
>La Iglesia San Juan Bautista
>M!
>Bronx Community College's Student Government
>Poder Latino
>Casa Atabex Ache
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Border01-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2239
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-23 23:12:56
Subject:Fwd: Financial Mismanagement Endangers Pacifica
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: Pacifica Campaign <pacificacampaign@...>
To: Matthew Smith <vivaohio@...>
Subject: Financial Mismanagement Endangers Pacifica
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:55:47 -0400


October 22, 2001
Pacifica Campaign Release

Fiscal Irresponsibility Threatens Pacifica Radio Network
Anti-Union Lawyers, PR Firms Eating Up Listener Dollars
Bills Go Unpaid, But Executive Pay Skyrockets

NEW YORK, (Oct. 22) - As Pacifica Radio's embattled leadership continues to 
pay a bevy of high priced lawyers, public relations firms, and security 
companies to maintain their tenuous grip on power, basic bills crucial for 
operations at the five-station network are not being paid.

Pacifica station KPFA in Berkeley now has 125 unpaid and overdue bills 
totaling more than $100,000, according to KPFA's afternoon news show 
Flashpoints and the http://www.savepacifica.net web site. This includes an 
unpaid electrical bill of $9,400 to Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E). Pacifica 
stations KPFK in Los Angeles and WBAI in New York also have many of their 
bills unpaid, according to staff at those stations.

"Listener money is being squandered by an inept and self-serving Pacifica 
executive leadership," said Juan Gonzalez, the coordinator of the Pacifica 
Campaign. "By putting lawyers first, and staff and listeners later, the 
present Pacifica management and Board leadership have abrogated their 
responsibility as stewards of the oldest listener-sponsored network in the 
country. They need to resign immediately."

In Pacifica's FY2000 (Oct. 1-Sept.30), the network spent a staggering 
$500,000 of listener money on anti-union law firms and $440,000 more on 
security. Dissident Board members estimate this year's legal bills have 
already topped one million dollars, including hundreds of thousands paid to 
the anti-union law firm of Pacifica Board Secretary John Murdock -- Epstein, 
Becker & Green.

Meanwhile, an investigation by the Pacifica Campaign has revealed that as 
the network plunged deeper into crisis the past couple of years, executive 
salaries skyrocketed.

The network's IRS tax records obtained by the campaign show that the pay of 
Pacifica's top brass, including KPFK General Manager Mark Schubb, KPFT 
General Manager Garland Ganter, and Executive Director Bessie Wash, climbed 
an average of 30 percent in the one year period from 1999 to 2000.

Financial records also show that Pacifica's national administrative office, 
which oversees the five-station network, spent a staggering 28 cents out of 
every dollar raised by network staff in 2000. In fact, the national office 
budget in 2000 exceeded the budgets of four of the five Pacifica stations.

But while the law firms, the growing Pacifica bureaucracy, and the Pacifica 
brass are being handsomely rewarded, Pacifica's five stations are suffering.

The financial crisis comes at KPFA despite the fact that the station has 
exceeded all on-air fundraising goals for the past two years, and should 
show a surplus of more than $200,000 in its accounts. KPFK has also 
generated surpluses in the past. But these funds are now being 
misappropriated by Pacifica Executive Director Bessie Wash and the Pacifica 
Board leadership.

Wash has reportedly ordered KPFA to undertake an immediate on-air 
fundraising drive, and has threatened to send in scab broadcasters to do 
on-air fundraising should KPFA staff refuse. At KPFK, the fund drive will 
reportedly begin in November, when its transmitter is repaired.

  "Why should listeners donate more money to KPFA, or any Pacifica station, 
if the money goes directly to Pacifica national executives who then misuse 
it?" asked Bernard White, the former program director of Pacifica station 
WBAI and now a Pacifica Campaign staffer.

According to IRS Form 990, Los Angeles station manager Mark Schubb's salary 
shot up from $56,000 in 1999 to nearly $72,000 in 2000. Chief financial 
officer Sandra Rosas's salary hit $75,000 in 2000, up from $58,000 the year 
before. (Rosas has since left the network). And the salary of WPFW General 
Manager Bessie Wash, who was installed as Pacifica's Executive Director in 
March 1999, rose from $55,000 to nearly $75,000 in 2000.

The salary increases came as the very same Pacifica's executives steered the 
network into what The Los Angeles Times has called "chaos," marked by 
wholesale firings and bannings, union-busting, censorship, and even the 
shutdown of Pacifica station KPFA in Berkeley for three weeks in the summer 
of 1999.

In December 2000, Pacifica executives launched the "Christmas Coup" at WBAI 
in New York City, changing all the locks overnight, bringing in security 
guards, and firing and banning more than 24 long-time producers and 
volunteers.

As a result, WBAI's audience ratings have dropped dramatically and so has 
its on-air fundraising. WBAI used to the largest fundraiser in the network, 
bringing in anywhere between $800,000 and a one million dollars per drive. 
But in 2001, its drives have brought no more than $300,000-$400,000, 
according to staff at the station.

With the crisis, expenses at Pacifica's bloated national bureaucracy in 
Washington, DC, have skyrocketed. The national office spent some $3 million 
out of a total budget of $10.8 million in FY2000, roughly the same budget as 
Pacifica's then largest station, WBAI in New York City.

These expenses are expected to have sharply increased over the past year. 
This summer, the network fired its old lead law firm and hired some of the 
most expensive and influential Beltway consultants and lawyers. These 
include President Clinton's impeachment trial lawyer, Greg Craig of Williams 
& Connolly, and the PR firm of Westhill Partners, whose clients have 
included tobacco giants and alleged war criminals.

Figures for Pacifica FY2001, which just ended in September, have not yet 
been released.


*********************
The Pacifica Campaign is a grass-roots organization representing listeners 
and staff alike, fighting to preserve Pacifica's 50-year tradition of 
progressive, community-based radio.
For more info go to: http://www.pacificacampaign.org

Pacifica Campaign
51 MacDougal St., #80
New York, NY  10012
(646) 230-9588



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Post ID:2240
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-23 23:20:47
Subject:Revolutionary Association of Afghanastan Women
Message:


****** Please Do Not Post this
       Announcement Except by E-Mail ***


THE OTHER AMERICA WELCOMES
THE OTHER AFGHANISTAN

AN EVENING OF INTERNATIONAL
SOLIDARITY WITH RAWA --
the Revolutionary Association
of the Women of Afghanistan


====================================
Date:   Sunday, October 28, 2001
Time:   6:30-8:30 p.m. (Eastern Standard Time begins that day)
Place:  Judson Memorial Church
        55 Washington Square South
        (between Thompson and
        Sullivan Streets), Manhattan

The meeting is free and open
to the public, but no cameras
and no news media will be
allowed.  Seating is limited.
====================================


Must we choose a "lesser evil" -- the terrorist attacks of September 11
or
the U.S. government's war on Afghanistan?  Or is it possible to turn a
different vision of the future into a reality -- a future of freedom,
human
dignity, cooperation, and genuine safety?  Who are our allies in helping
to
realize this vision?

Come listen to and speak with TAMEENA FARYAL, representative of RAWA,
the
Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan.

RAWA is an independent, all-volunteer, non-violent organization that
calls
for multilateral disarmament and the establishment of a secular
democracy in
Afghanistan, where women may once again participate fully in public
life.

Since 1977, the women of RAWA have stood up to all native and foreigner
oppressors with courage and principle.  They opposed the Russian
occupation
of Afghanistan and today they oppose all Islamic fundamentalist forces,
including both the Taliban and those in the Northern Alliance.

On September 14, RAWA condemned the September 11 attacks as a barbaric
act
of violence and terror; opposed a U.S. military attack that would kill
thousands of innocent Afghans for the crimes committed by the Taliban
and
Osama; and expressed its sincere hope that the great American people can
*differentiate* between the people of Afghanistan and a handful of
fundamentalist terrorists.

While the Taliban have outlawed education for women beyond the second
grade,
and deny them the few social services that exist in Afghanistan, RAWA
secretly -- and under the threat of death -- provides schooling for
girls
and boys, as well as medical care and adult education for women.  In
neighboring Pakistan, it provides Afghan refugees with aid, runs
orphanages,
and sponsors income-generating projects.


=================================
PROGRAM OF THE OCTOBER 28 MEETING
=================================
Welcome (6:30-6:40)
Anne Jaclard
News and Letters Committees
(Marxist-Humanists)

Introduction (6:40-6:50)
TBA
Women for Afghan Women

MAIN ADDRESS (6:50-7:40)
TAHMEENA FARYAL
Representative of RAWA
(Revolutionary Association of
the Women of Afghanistan)

Open Discussion,
Questions and Answers (7:40-8:30)


The meeting is organized by the New York Local of News and Letters
Committees, www.newsandletters.org; nandl@igc.org.  For more
information, or
to co-sponsor the meeting (organizations only, please), call News and
Letters at (212) 663-3631.


=================================================
          Sponsors (List in Formation)
=================================================
Anjoman Azadi (Iranian Marxist-Humanists in exile)
Brecht Forum
Education Committee of the NY Not in Our Name
     anti-war coalition
FED-UP (Federation for URPE Pluralism)
Hegel class of Brecht Forum
NY News and Letters Committee (Marxist-Humanists)
NY Transfer News
NOW - NYC (National Organization for Women)
Theater of the Oppressed Laboratory
WILPF NY Metro (Womens International League for
     Peace & Freedom)
Women for Afghan Women
Women in Black - NY


To assist with the national RAWA tour, please contact
rawa_afg@....
For background information on RAWA and to support womens peaceful
resistance in Afghanistan, please visit www.rawa.org
*********************************


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2241
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-24 15:47:27
Subject:join us in discussing
Message:

The influence of national politics on Newark, NJ
engage in a discussion on important political and social events impacting 
the local and international political structure moderated by Genique 
Floufnoy
Discussion Topics Include: the world trade center tradegy, the intenational 
conference on racism, America's new war
Panelists Include: William Payne, Donald Payne, Ras Baraka
Special Performance By: the Last Poets

october 24, today
the masonic temple 188 irvine turner blvd
admission free
for ride from new brunswick area contact joe 729.0390 before 6:00pm
sorry if this info is late reaching you...

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2242
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-24 17:13:41
Subject:Racist Troopers 'bout to walk
Message:

                     Plea deal near for accused troopers
                     10/24/01

                     BY KATHY BARRETT CARTER
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

                     Two white state troopers whose shooting of three 
unarmed minority men during a New Jersey Turnpike traffic stop three years 
ago sparked a national debate about racial profiling are in the final stages 
of working out a plea deal that would spare them prison, according to 
sources familiar with the negotiations.

                     Troopers James Kenna and John Hogan and state 
prosecutors are close to hammering out a plea bargain that would allow them 
to plead guilty to misconduct and making false statements to law enforcement 
officers investigating the April 23, 1998 Turnpike shooting.

                     The deal requires the troopers, who were suspended 
after they were indicted, to forfeit their jobs and admit they were engaged 
in racial profiling. In exchange, an attempted murder charge against Kenna 
and aggravated assault charges against both troopers would be dropped, and 
prosecutors would recommend to the judge that they receive probation instead 
of jail time.

                     According to the sources, the only sticking point is 
getting federal prosecutors in Washington to agree not to bring new charges 
against the two once the state charges are settled.

                     Burlington County Assistant Prosecutor James Gerrow, 
the special prosecutor who has handled the case, said he never comments on 
ongoing plea negotiations. Defense lawyer Robert Galantucci, Hogan's lawyer, 
was unavailable for comment yesterday and Jack Arseneault, Kenna's lawyer, 
declined to comment on the negotiations.

                     On April 23, 1998, Hogan and Kenna fired 11 shots into 
a van they had stopped on the Turnpike in Washington Township, Mercer 
County. The troopers said they opened fire when the vehicle began to move 
toward them. Three of the four unarmed minority men inside the van were 
wounded.

                     In the aftermath of the shootings the state admitted 
that troopers unconstitutionally targeted minorities for roadside stops and 
searches, and agreed to federally supervised reforms to end the practice. In 
addition, the superintendent of the State Police was replaced, and reforms 
in hiring and training state troopers were enacted. The fallout continued 
this spring when an unsuccessful effort was launched to impeach state 
Supreme Court Justice Peter Verniero, who was state attorney general at the 
time of the shootings.

                     Hogan is charged with aggravated assault; Kenna is 
charged with attempted murder and aggravated assault. In February, the state 
agreed to pay $12.9 million to settle a civil suit filed by the four 
occupants, who were traveling to North Carolina for a basketball tryout.

                     Both troopers also face separate charges alleging that 
they conducted illegal searches of motorists' cars and falsely reported the 
race of more than a dozen motorists they stopped on the Turnpike.

                     The two cases stalled last year. Superior Court Judge 
Andrew Smithson threw out the indictment, excoriating prosecutors for 
turning Hogan and Kenna into what he called poster boys for racial 
profiling. An appeals court, however, overturned Smithson's decision, and 
the case landed in the hands of Superior Court Judge Charles Delehey.

                     Delehey urged a plea agreement and set an Oct. 15 
deadline for pretrial motions in the falsification case. But sometime after 
the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, state prosecutors and defense lawyers asked 
to postpone the Oct. 15 deadline and began to quietly work out a deal.

                     Sources familiar with the negotiations say prosecutors 
were uneasy about prosecuting two troopers, always difficult to convict, at 
a time when the entire nation seems to be rallying behind law enforcement.

                     If the two sides do not finalize a plea deal, the judge 
has imposed a Nov. 4 deadline on defense attorneys to file pretrial motions.

                     The attempted murder charge carried a potential 20-year 
prison sentence for Kenna. Both troopers face up to five to 10 years for the 
aggravated assault charge, and another five to 10 years for falsifying the 
race of motorists they pulled over.

                     Hogan and Kenna have been suspended without pay since 
May 1999, when they were first indicted on the falsification charges.

                     Wayne Greenfeder, the attorney who represented Rayshawn 
Brown, one of the men shot in the van, said last night that he was not privy 
to all the evidence and information available to prosecutors, but that if 
they wanted to plea bargain, it is probably for the best.

                     "We have a lot of confidence in James Gerrow. If that's 
the way he wants to work it out, that's fine. They (Hogan and Kenna) are 
pleading guilty. They are admitting what they did was wrong," Greenfeder 
said.

                     Without a plea agreement, Greenfeder said, the case 
could drag on for many more years. Referring to Brown and the other three 
young men injured in the shooting, Greenfeder said, "I'm happy these kids 
don't have to relive this anymore."

                     Kathy Barrett Carter covers legal issues. She may be 
reached at (609) 989-0254 or kcarter@...

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2243
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-25 00:22:34
Subject:Re: RU defeats Republicans! greens protest
Message:

coming from the person who fails to win over this campus.

in fact you admit your own candidate cannot win and that your plan is to 
spoil this election for mcgreevey, how does this agenda serve the people?

for coleman to waste the resources available that could WIN local campaigns 
is a step backwards.

nadir snuggles up with bush2 and now NJ greens would welcome schundler, you 
cannot claim to represent the people higbee - neither can your boy 
fortunato.

a progressive third party must organize in campaigns that break down in our 
communities the people v. imperialism. what is the people of newark's 
relationship to prudential? what is J&J's relationship to the city of new 
brunswick?

focus locally and win! newark city council Ras Baraka May2002 - new 
brunswick mayor, elected school board, 2 city council seats Nov2002. 
joesmith


>From: WHCOON@...
>To: can_bush@..., rugreens@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [RUGreens] Re:  RU defeats Republicans
>Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:14:19 EDT
>
>Joesph Smith, go awayl Get off this listerve right now. A perosn who has 
>again and again declared on the Greens should not be here. I am tired of 
>your subversion. Get off this listserve!
>
>             ~Ray Higbee
>
>            NJ Campus Greens


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Post ID:2244
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-25 12:14:26
Subject:Dec. 8th-Mumia Abu Jamal
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is forwarding this message out in 
solidarity with the struggle to free our brother Mumia Abu Jamal.  Please 
read and forward out.

ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244

_______________________________________________________________
ANNOUNCING:

AN INTERNATIONAL DAY OF SUPPORT TO FREE MUMIA

Date:  Saturday, December 8th.

Everyone who can is being asked to come to Philadelphia on that date. The 
action is projected to start at noon and include a march through the Black 
community, ending in a Black church. Further details will be forthcoming.

Make plans to join us in Philadelphia on  December 8, even as we prepare for 
emergency actions after any decision by state court judge Pamela Dembe on 
the question of reopening Mumia's state appeal. We have no way of knowing 
when Dembe will announce her ruling, and we cannot simply stand by and wait 
for it to happen. We must continue to focus public attention on Mumia's 
case.

A SPECIAL APPEAL IS MADE AT THIS TIME TO ANTIWAR COMMITTEES AND COALITIONS 
NOT TO SCHEDULE CONFLICTING EVENTS ON DECEMBER 8 SO FOLKS CAN COME TO 
PHILADELPHIA TO SUPPORT MUMIA. Please pass the word to antiwar organizers in 
your area.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2245
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-25 12:43:27
Subject:The making of the next catastrophe
Message:

This author's background information is very useful:


Unintended Consequences
John Tirman, AlterNet
October 24, 2001

All wars have unintended consequences. No matter how cautious generals and 
political leaders are, war sets in motion waves of change that can alter the 
currents of history. More often, generals and political leaders are not 
troubled by long-term side effects; they are sharply focused on achieving a 
victory and war's aims. The result is that the unseen and unintended occur, 
at times as a bitter riptide which overwhelms the original rationales for 
engaging in armed combat.


This unpredictable cycle of action and reaction has thwarted U.S. policy in 
southwestern Asia for 50 years. It began with attempts to contain the Soviet 
Union and control the oil-rich fields of the Persian Gulf, and continues 
today in the popular assault in Afghanistan to destroy the al-Qa'ida 
terrorist network. In that half century, nearly every major initiative led 
to an unexpected and sometimes catastrophic reaction, for which new military 
remedies were devised, only again to stir unforeseen problems. The cycle, 
regrettably, may be repeating again.


The half-century history begins with CIA intrigue in Iran. The original 
spigot of Middle Eastern oil, Iran was long dominated by Britain and its oil 
company, British Petroleum. During World War II, strongman Reza Kahn, a Nazi 
sympathizer, was deposed by the British in favor of his son, Reza Shah, who 
in turn was shunted aside by the increasingly assertive parliament, the 
Majlis. In 1951, the Majlis elected as premier Mohammed Mossedegh, a 
nationalist reformer, who quickly sought control over Iran's oil wealth. The 
British, aghast at seeing 50 percent of BP's stake in Iran nationalized, 
sought his ouster, which the CIA provided in 1953. The Shah was reinstated 
and ruled with an iron fist, enabled by lavish American military aid.


The overthrow of Mossedegh remains a bitter memory for Iranians, and for 
Muslims more widely. While he was mainly a secular nationalist, even Islamic 
militants bewail his fate as another instance of Western interference and 
violence. In the years of the Shah's rule, many of the beleaguered reformers 
gravitated toward the ulama, the clerical class, who were relatively 
independent of the regime. So U.S. policy, which targeted the left as 
possible Soviet sympathizers or threats to oil interests, had the unintended 
effect of strengthening the political power and sophistication of the ulama.


By the 1970s, the Shah had become a self-styled regional power, flush with 
an unfettered flow of weaponry from the United States. Presidents Eisenhower 
and Kennedy, neither a wallflower when it came to arming allies against 
perceived Soviet expansionism, had bluntly dismissed the Shah's pleas for 
military supremacy, but President Nixon embraced the Shah without restraint. 
Not only were the newest jet fighters and other advanced weaponry made 
available, but endless commercial ties were created, bringing thousands of 
Americans to Teheran. In 1971, the Shah's oil minister launched a cascade of 
price increases that rocked the American economy for nearly a decade, but it 
was American guns and products that the ever-richer Shah and his cohort 
really sought. A widely perceived decadence eroded whatever support the 
regime maintained, and by the late 1970s, the Shah was struggling against 
the now-familiar Muslim "street" that detested the Westernized elite and 
resented their fabulous oil riches in the midst of poverty. In 1979, the 
Shah abdicated and left Iran in a stew of disarray. It was only a matter of 
months before the Islamic Revolution came to full flower.


The Devastating Aftermath


Apart from the war in Vietnam, where millions died, the U.S. role in 
imposing and sustaining the Shah in Iran is perhaps the most invidious 
episode in America's foreign policy. The consequences are colossal, and 
malignancies continue to appear. Among the first of these was the change in 
Soviet policy toward the region, and specifically in Afghanistan.


The Soviets had meddled in Afghanistan for years, supporting its on-again, 
off-again communist party. A mildly pro-Soviet regime in Kabul was under 
intense pressure from Islamic radicals in the late 1970s, however, and 
Moscow kept a wary eye on the chaotic events in neighboring Iran. As Islamic 
militancy gained in the post-Shah governments in Teheran, the Kabul regime 
became less and less tenable. In the Kremlin, the Soviet leadership opposed 
intervention until the Afghan regime was in complete turmoil. A high-level 
Russian, Georgy Kornienko, notes it was Defense Minister D.F. Ustinov who 
finally convinced the others to intervene:



"The push to change his former point of view," he recalls in a memoir, "came 
from the stationing of American military ships in the Persian Gulf in the 
fall of 1979, and the incoming information about preparations for a possible 
American invasion of Iran, which threatened to cardinally change the 
military-strategic situation in the region to the detriment of the interests 
of the Soviet Union. If the United States can allow itself such things tens 
of thousands of kilometers away from their territory in the immediate 
proximity from the USSR borders, why then should we be afraid to defend our 
positions in the neighboring Afghanistan? -- this was approximately 
Ustinov's reasoning."

Politburo minutes from the entire previous year, now available, make clear 
the Soviet leaders' view that the Islamic militants were responsible for 
major attacks on government forces in Herat and elsewhere, and posed a 
threat, particularly with the active aid of the new Khomeini regime in Iran. 
The USSR, after all, included five Central Asia republics that were 
predominantly Muslim and bordered both Afghanistan and Iran. So the Shah's 
decades-long brutality gave rise to a broad Islamic movement in the region 
that, once in power in Teheran, not only alarmed Washington but also worried 
the much nearer Moscow.


The U.S. response to the collapse of the Shah, the triumph of Khomeini, and 
the December 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was to be played out 
tragically over the coming dozen years. Beginning with the Carter 
administration in the summer of 1979 -- months before the Soviets invaded -- 
the CIA provided arms and training to the Afghan opposition, the now 
infamous mujaheddin, first to provoke the Soviets to ill-considered action 
(as Carter advisor Zbigniew Bzrezinski has since revealed), and, after the 
December 1979 invasion, to make the Soviet stay in Afghanistan as 
inhospitable as possible. The large flow of arms and high-tech weapons like 
shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles did not come until 1986, by which 
time the Soviet leadership was firmly committed to departure. But a steady 
supply of Chinese-made AK-47s and Soviet-made weapons sent via Egypt 
provided the Islamic rebels with ample firepower to cripple the Soviets' 
aims in Afghanistan. It was, at the time, heralded as the wondrous victory 
of the "Reagan Doctrine," the strategy to arm "freedom fighters" against 
Soviet-leaning regimes in places like Angola and Nicaragua.


In all its venues and applications, the Reagan Doctrine had no qualms about 
the human costs of fomenting warfare, and most important for the present 
predicament, had no post-conflict strategy. The wages of war were high for 
all. Angola is still in a civil war more than 20 years later, with the 
Reagan-backed Savimbi fueling a self-aggrandizing conflict. Nicaragua is 
devastated, impoverished; the Contras, who battled the Sandinista regime, 
engaged in a drug trade that now swamps the region.


So, too, with Afghanistan: the Soviets left in 1989, defeated, but their 
departure also left Afghanistan a political minefield (to go along with the 
10 million real land mines left by both sides in the war). Warlords battled 
with each other for nearly a decade until the most extreme faction, the 
Taliban, gained ascendency in the late 1990s and provided the home to the 
terrorists the United States now seeks to rout. In the meantime, the 3 
million AK-47s sent to the mujaheddin have been located as far away as 
Liberia and Mozambique, the fodder for other wars and misery. Professor Fred 
Halliday of the London School of Economics wrote at the end of the 1980s:



"The most striking feature of the Reagan Doctrine was the way in which 
Washington itself came to be a promoter and organizer of terrorist actions. 
The mujaheddin in Afghanistan, UNITA in Angola and the Nicaraguan Contras 
were all responsible for abominable actions in their pursuit of "freedom" -- 
massacring civilians, torturing and raping captives, destroying schools, 
hospitals and economic installations, killing and mutilating prisoners ... 
Reagan was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of people through 
terrorism."

At about the same time the Afghan resistance was being organized with U.S. 
aid, the Iraq regime of Saddam Hussein launched an attack on Iran to gain 
the oil fields on the gulf. This unprovoked act of war followed a period of 
quiet rapprochement with Washington (Bzrezinski again), and throughout the 
ensuing eight years of carnage -- in which one million people died -- the 
U.S. government increasingly helped Iraq, supplying it with more than $5 
billion in financial credits, intelligence data, heavy equipment like trucks 
and political respectability. In most estimates, the U.S. "tilt" toward 
Baghdad was indispensable in saving Saddam from defeat.


The reason for the "tilt" was to frustrate the Islamic radicals in Teheran. 
This counter-Khomeini strategy extended beyond Iraq to countries like Turkey 
(where the U.S. approved a military coup in 1980 and suppression of Kurds, 
resulting in a civil war that has taken 30,000 lives) and Saudi Arabia (the 
keystone of U.S. oil policy, which led the U.S. to cast a blind eye on Saudi 
corruption and human-rights abuses). But Iraq, during the 1980s, was the 
centerpiece of this gambit.


After the catastrophic war of 1980-88, the new president, George Bush, 
embraced a policy of accommodation with Iraq. Within a few months of taking 
office, National Security Directive (NSD) 26 set the policy: "Access to 
Persian Gulf oil and the security of key friendly states in the area" were 
the two rationales of a strategy that would "pursue, and seek to facilitate, 
opportunities for U.S. firms to participate in the reconstruction of the 
Iraqi economy ... Also, as a means of developing access and influence with 
the Iraqi defense establishment, the United States should consider sales of 
non-lethal forms of military assistance." Said a senior official of NSD 26: 
"The concern over Iranian fundamentalism was a given." The Reagan-Bush 
accommodationist policy toward Iraq meant that Saddam received only a slap 
on the wrist or the murder, with chemical weapons, of 5,000 Kurds in the 
north at the end of the war with Iran.


But when Iraq occupied Kuwait in August 1990, the tilt fell over. The 
anti-Iran strategy, itself a response to the ruinous policy of supporting 
the Shah, now had unavoidable consequences: the long and devastating war in 
Afghanistan; intensified bloodshed in the Iran-Iraq war; the Kurdish 
massacres in Turkey and Iraq; an acceleration of Islamic militancy in 
Pakistan and civil war in Kashmir; and the subjugation of Kuwait and the 
threat to oil fields of Saudi Arabia. It has had other corollary effects, 
such as a tolerance of Syrian misdeeds, as well as devotion to the 
perversely corrupt and fragile House of Saud, as Seymour Hersh so chillingly 
reports in the Oct. 22 issue of the New Yorker. One must ask, in the wake of 
such an astounding set of catastrophes, if leaving Khomeini's Iran alone 
after 1980 would not have been less devastating in human terms, or whether 
Soviet "hegemony" over Afghanistan would not have been far better for 
Afghans, than 20 years of war, displacement and impoverishment.


The Next Catastrophe?


What will be next in this series of haunting mistakes? If this 50-year 
history teaches us anything, it is that aggressive military actions surely 
will earn a violent reaction, and that the pattern consistently displays 
three characteristics: large-scale human misery; the "involvement" of 
neighboring countries; and the amplification of militant Islamic sentiment 
around the world. In just a matter of weeks, all characteristics are now 
visible in the "war on terrorism."


While the responsibility for hundreds of thousands of starving or displaced 
Afghans cannot directly be laid at the feet of President Bush, the U.S. 
bombing campaign is the proximate cause. Panicky refugee flows are beginning 
to swell; on Oct. 19, the responsible U.N. agency said there are now 
refugees in the thousands and that conditions on the border with Pakistan 
are "chaotic." This steady stream of hungry and homeless is likely to 
enlarge if the bombing continues, civil war worsens or on-the-ground U.S. 
action escalates. By mid-November, food supplies will be harder to convey to 
"our" Afghans as winter sets in; shelter is also a desperate need. Some 
truly horrifying predictions of freezing and starvation have been aired -- 
up to one million -- which is improbable, but even thousands would be a sad 
ordeal.


The refugee situation is more complex, because it is not only a continuing 
misery for millions (already 3.5 million Afghans live in either Pakistan or 
Iran, a vast number in squalor), but because it strains the host 
communities, and is an incubator for militancy and violence. The 900,000 
internally displaced Afghans will get far less international attention, even 
though their material circumstances may be desperate and their political 
vulnerability perilous.


In the idiom of international relations, the most worrisome consequence is 
the perilous state of Pakistan. Coerced to cooperate with the United States, 
the military government is risking a revolt from below. Tensions with India 
are escalating over terrorist attacks in Kashmir, orchestrated perhaps by 
the same Pakistani military establishment we are now utilizing to attack 
Afghanistan. The worries about collapse or gradual disintegration of secular 
rule in Pakistan are punctuated by its possession of nuclear weapons. It is 
conceivable that within a few years the same sort of criminals who attacked 
the World Trade Center on Sept. 11 will have weapons of considerably greater 
power than four commercial jets. If one is comforted by the denigration of 
such scenarios by American officials, recall that they are the same group 
that engineered the accommodationist policy toward Iraq and the embrace of 
the mujaheddin. The eventual takeover of Islamabad by politically noxious 
"Islamicists" is a near certain, if the war escalates or is prolonged, or if 
an equally dangerous clique gains control in Kabul. It is difficult to see 
how Pakistan can readily stabilize under circumstances that have nearly come 
to this fruition as of mid-October.


The refugee flows and the anti-American sentiment among even moderate 
Muslims in the region also may destabilize Iran. The advances of moderation 
via civil society and the two electoral victories of President Khatemi could 
be reversed as a result of the war in Afghanistan and the American right 
wing's demands to antagonize Teheran as a "sponsor" of terrorism, along with 
the Taliban and Saddam. Internal political struggles in Iran were slowly 
being won by the forces of civility and democracy, but the "war on 
terrorism" may soon claim them as victims.


The calls to mount a campaign against Saddam, which is supported by Deputy 
Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and the pundits at the Washington Post, is 
nearly beyond the pale of predictability if the administration is foolish 
enough to try it. Such a move, which would require a colossal military 
effort, would stir the Muslim street to threaten not only Pakistan and Iran, 
but Saudi Arabia and possibly other countries. These episodes of unrest in 
the region always reveal the decrepit state of the Saudi royal family, its 
immense debt from high living and corruption and the devil's bargain the 
U.S. has struck to preserve control of oil. There have been sizable, bloody 
riots even as far away as Nigeria and Indonesia.


The "war of terrorism," now conducted mainly on Afghan soil, is enough to 
stir these anti-American sentiments, although perhaps a short and precise 
military campaign is necessary and we will simply have to cope with the 
fallout. But a long bombing campaign, a lengthy American search-and-destroy 
mission in the Afghan countryside, a bloody assault on the Taliban and siege 
of Kabul -- these unwarranted tactics, coupled with a refugee crisis, could 
inflame the tinderbox of Muslim sentiments. Invading Iraq would then only 
confirm their worst suspicions, that is, that Washington is intent upon 
destroying not just terrorists, but regimes in Muslim societies.


The roots of Muslim rage are not well understood, though surely the history 
of American (and, it must be said, British and French) actions in the region 
stretching from Algeria to Pakistan is a source. Justified or not, Muslim 
grievances center on the perception that America wields its power carelessly 
without a thought for the value of Muslim lives, whether Palestinians in the 
desperate refugee camps, Iraqis gunned down in the "turkey shoot" of Desert 
Storm, Kurds manipulated by one U.S. government after another or the 
millions who endure the savage rule of despots propped up by Washington. The 
ravages of globalized capitalism, while a more indirect burden, are also at 
work, because it is a system that, intentionally or not, undermines 
traditional ways of life, while failing to provide the satisfactions of 
modernity to any but a very few. If the search and seizure of bin Laden is 
not accomplished very quickly, and with unambiguous evidence of his guilt, 
he will become -- if he hasn't already -- a legend to tens of millions and a 
model for further action against the West.


Steps Toward a Different Strategy


The goal of neutralizing or eliminating bin Laden and the al-Qa'ida network 
is laudable. Critics of American foreign policy should not mistake this 
network for folk heroes along the lines of Che Guevara or Franz Fanon. 
Al-Qa'ida is promoting a different order altogether, one that is violent at 
its core, not only in its complete rejection of pluralism and openness in 
Muslim societies, but in its repression of women and others. It is a 
dangerous and reactionary ideology in all respects. Christopher Hitchens has 
labeled it a form of fascism, which is not historically accurate, but the 
emotional meaning is resonant.


So how should the United States and its European allies deal with this 
danger? A detailed strategy is not something most of us are prepared to put 
forward, but some criteria are comprehensible. The first is to see this form 
of terrorism as acts of criminals rather than acts of warriors. (Hendrick 
Hertzberg in the New Yorker made this useful contrast right after the Sept. 
11 attacks, saying that it ennobles the hijackers to call this a war; they 
are criminals.) Law enforcement, enhanced by the full throttle of 
intelligence services -- including cooperation with allies -- is the most 
likely way to foil al-Qa'ida over the long haul.


Aggressive investigations, detainment of plausible suspects, freezing 
financial assets and the like keep terrorists on the move, harassed and 
disrupted. Counter-communications strategies and pressure on thugs like the 
Saudi princes who fund al-Qa'ida will further immobilize them. This does 
mean a very long effort, stretching out over years; it is, in fact, one that 
has already been underway for years, but devalued and made inept by 
successive American presidents. A "law enforcement plus" strategy does 
involve some diplomatic resources and military actions that go beyond, for 
example, the longtime struggle against the mafia. One should not 
underestimate the disruptive power of killing bin Laden, if it can be 
quickly administered. But the longer term strategy is essentially one of 
old-fashioned techniques that require constant vigilance, cooperation across 
many borders and respect for law and its institutions, including an 
international criminal, to bring the terrorists to justice.


At the same time, coping with underlying causes of this terrorism and 
American vulnerabilities must be a priority. Here the Bush administration is 
especially weak or dissembling. The control of oil remains the linchpin of 
U.S. security policy in the region, and, indeed, the immediate reason for 
bin Laden's rage is the stationing of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia since 
Desert Shield began in August 1990. American officials and opinion elites 
insist that we are there to protect our "access" to oil, but everyone in the 
world has access to oil; it's control over oil, and particularly the pricing 
of oil, which are at stake. There has been no energy policy for years, and 
the Bush energy proposals are not addressing the problem of gulf oil 
dependency at all. In part this is because American companies that do 
business there are close to the Bush administration (Halliburton, Dick 
Cheney's last employer, is one such firm), but it is also because to devise 
and implement an effective national strategy to reduce dependency on oil 
would require an enormous leap in fuel efficiency standards, a BTU tax, and 
a sharp increase in use of conservation and other fuels (possibly including 
nuclear energy). These measures have been so devalued by conventional wisdom 
and resisted by pampered consumers they are simply unpalatable. Sacrifices 
may go as far as one-hour waits at airport security lines, but not to using 
a 75-mile-per-gallon small car or paying for big improvements in mass 
transit.


The problem of Muslim "rage" and the like is far more complex, of course, 
but certainly there are steps that can be taken. It is commonplace nowadays 
to hear that we don't explain ourselves well to the Muslim world, that we 
are represented mainly by MTV and "Melrose Place" (occasionally it's also 
acknowledged that it was a bad idea to decimate the foreign service and the 
U.S. Information Agency). While this view has some merit, it misses a much 
larger point: it's not just that we must tell our story better, we must 
begin to listen to what the concerns of the Muslim world actually are. This 
doesn't mean tuning in to the cacophony of the "street"; an enormous number 
of Western-oriented Muslim intellectuals are disenchanted with U.S. policies 
and can eloquently articulate the various critiques. That they have little 
sympathy for the U.S., despite Sept. 11, and see only further alienation as 
a result of the military assaults on Afghanistan, is alarming. In the broad 
U.S. political culture, we are not listening to such critiques, which is 
what is often meant by American arrogance: what we have to tell others is 
more important than what others have to tell us.


These kinds of approaches to the politics and security challenges of 
southwestern Asia and north Africa are just that -- steps in what should be 
a much richer and complex national debate. That so many in the political and 
opinion establishment have resisted and even denounced such notions is a 
distressing sign of how uphill such steps will be. If we do care to absorb 
the lessons of the last 50 years in that region, however, we can do so only 
by engaging the history of policy failures (which beset all great powers) as 
well as the glory of the American dream. So much of that history is one of 
tragic and even catastrophic consequences, most of them unforeseen and 
unintended. We need now -- immediately -- to consider and act on those 
lessons both to honor the dead of Sept. 11 and to prevent more tragedy in 
the future.


John Tirman is program director at the Social Science Research Council, and 
author of "Spoils of War: The Human Cost of America's Arms Trade."



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Post ID:2246
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-25 19:36:07
Subject:P.O.P. Will March for Earl Faison
Message:

PEOPLE'S ORGANIZATION FOR PROGRESS
POST OFFICE BOX 225O5
NEWARK, NEW JERSEY 07101-2505
Telephone: (973) 801-0001
Internet: www.njpop.org
PRESS ADVISORY OCTOBER 20, 2001 - FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: LAWRENCE HAMM (973) 801-0001

POP WILL MARCH FOR FAISON AND ALL VICTIMS OF
POLICE BRUTALITY AND RACIAL PROFILING
The People's Organization For Progress will hold a "March For Justice For 
Earl Faison And All Victims Of Police Brutality And Racial Profiling" on 
Saturday, October 27, 2001. The march will begin at 12:30 p.m. and will 
start at the old police headquarters where Faison died, 593 Lincoln Avenue 
(corner of Lincoln & Tremont Avenues) in Orange, New Jersey. The march will 
proceed through the cities of Orange, East Orange, Irvington, and end at the 
Rodino Federal Building, 970 Broad Street in Newark.

In December, a jury found five Orange, New Jersey police officers guilty of 
conspiracy and three of them also guilty of civil rights violations in 
connection with the beating and torture of police brutality victim Earl 
Faison. In May, U. S. district court judge John Lifland overturned thejury's 
guilty verdict and dismissed the conspiracy conviction against of those five 
officers. An appeal of that decision has been filed by the U. S. Attorney's 
Office in New Jersey.


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Post ID:2247
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-26 12:18:52
Subject:Kimako's Blues People
Message:

[Forward to all your peoples]

***KIMAKO'S BLUES PEOPLE 808 S.10 ST. NEWARK***
973.242.1346  1509 FAX EMAIL AMIRIB@...

	 Sat Oct 27
Homage to Trane and Monk
		8pm
Open Discussion: "Art, Terror,
	 & Revolution"

Open Mic - Word/Music Djeli ya
Session - 	Bring work on Trane,
Monk, Art, Terror & Revolution
Admission 7$laves  Collation
		included

peoples will be leaving New Brunswick 7pm
contact joe smith 732.729.0390 can_bush@...

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2248
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-26 12:26:37
Subject:Kimako's Blues People
Message:

[Forward to all your people]

***KIMAKO'S BLUES PEOPLE 808 S.10 ST. NEWARK***
973.242.1346  1509 FAX EMAIL amiri baraka - AMIRIB@...

          Sat Oct 27
Homage to Trane and Monk
                 8pm
Open Discussion: "Art, Terror,
          & Revolution"

Open Mic - Word/Music Djeli ya
Session -       Bring work on Trane,
Monk, Art, Terror & Revolution
Admission 7$laves  Collation
                 included

peoples will be leaving New Brunswick 7pm
contact joe smith 732.729.0390 can_bush@...



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2251
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-27 16:55:27
Subject:Fwd: [soa] Reparations Mobilization Conference is Growing!
Message:

In a message dated 10/26/01 12:04:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ebontek@earthlink.net writes:

<< Subj:     [soa] Reparations Mobilization Conference is Growing!
Date:  10/26/01 12:04:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From:  ebontek@... (Sam Anderson)
To:
blackthought@yahoogroups.combrc-discuss@lists.tao.cabrc-reparations@yahoogroup

s.comevents@...@topica.comsoa@yahoogroups.com
CC:
African_Caucus@...@...ipz@...1@...

ro.zayid@...@...info@...@jenzaba

r.comevents@...r@georgetown.


Sistas + Brothas!,

The Reparations Mobilization Coalition is looking forward to
seeing you at this historic conference! Please visit our website
for pre-registration and other details:
<www.murchisoncenter.org/reparations>.
We are expecting hundreds of Brothas + Sistas to participate
in this WORKING conference to build the necessary grassroots
education and mobilizing efforts to insure the realization of
Reparations not only within the US but thruout the African Diaspora.

In Struggle,

Sam Anderson


DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
The Reparations Education & Mobilization Conference Program



Friday Nov 2 @ City College- 139th St. + Convent Ave.

3 to 6pm-  The Historical Legacy of Slavery, the Slave Trade
& Black Resistance
            This workshop will deal with how we popularize and teach about
the historical basis for the demands for reparations. Great Hall
Recital Room


Prof. Martia Goodson- Baruch College
Sam Anderson- Author- Black Holocaust For Beginners
Prof. Everet Green- Philosophy Born Of Struggle Association

In The Great Hall...
6 to 7pm-       Cultural/Spirtual Performance depicting the 
multigenerational
struggles for Reparations... and a tribute to our ancestors who
fought, strived, loved and survived enslavement and its repressive
aftermath. “The Apology”- by Richard Kenyatta: from the Maafa
Suite of The Drama Ministry of St. Paul Community Baptist Church
(Brooklyn, NY).
Askia Toure/ HipHop Poets .


7 to 10pm-     Opening Plenary: Reparations History in the Making:
Reportback from the UN World Conference Against Racism


Prof. Ray Winbush- Race Relations Institute- Fisk University
Attny. Roger Wareham- December 12th Movement
Attny. Joann Watson- NCOBRA
Attny. Muntu Matsimela- African + African Decedents Caucus
Attny. Efia Wangaza- AfricanAmerican Inst. For Policy Studies
+ Planning/MXGM
CCNY Youth Rep
Dennis Brutus- Jubilee 2000 South

Saturday, Nov. 3 at A. Phillip Randolph Hi School

  10 to noon-   Workshops

Labor & Reparations Mobilization-  Lunch Room

Ashaki Binta- Black Workers For Justice, North Carolina
Jim Houghton- Harlem Fightback
Amina Baraka- Newark-based Writer and Labor/Community Activist
Larry Adams- Pres. Mail Handlers, Local 300
Richard F. America- George Washington University
Ron Washington- Black Phone Workers for Justice- NJ
Dennis Serrette- Coalition of Black Trade Unionist

Reparations Mobilization Within Electoral Politics-
Summing up and Outlining the ongoing legislative work for various
kinds of Reparations bills and resolutions to be passed. Auditorium

Charles Barron- Activist Candidate NYC City Councilperson
Ras Baraka- Newark Political Activist Candidate
Assemblyman Roger Green- Brooklyn
Milton McGriff- Philadelphia NCOBRA

Noon - 1pm- Visit Vendors + Lunchtime

1 to 3pm Workshops

Racism As Cultural Genocide-
The Psychological, Spiritual and Physical Impact of Slavery and
White Supremacy Auditorium

Prof. Ray Winbush- Race Relations Institute, Fisk University
Dr. Esmeralda Thornhill- James M. Robinson Chair in Black Canadian
Studies,
Nova Scotia, Canada
Prof. Marimba Ani- Emory University
Dr. Henry McCurtis, MD
Dr. Bill Cross- CUNY Grad


Legal Strategies:
Understanding and Supporting the Legal Work and Research- Lunch
Room
Silis Muhammad- CEO, Lost Found Nation of Islam
Attny. Gilda Sherrod Ali- NCOBRA
Lord Tony Gifford- Member of Parliament + London/Jamaica Barrister
Attny. Deadria Farmer-Paelmann- NYC Legal Researcher

Youth & Reparations Mobilization-
☛ NOTE: At CCNY Student Lounge in NAC Building

CCNY Students
Dave Daniels- The Code- December 12th Movement
Black Nia Force
Malcolm X Grassroots Movement

3pm- 5pm

Prison Industrial Complex, Political Prisoners/ POWs and the
War on Drugs:
The Criminalization of a Race-  Lunch Room

Safiyah Bukhari- Former Political Prisoner and Revolutionary
Activist
Pam Africa- MOVE/family + Friends of Mumia Abu Jamal
Churne Lloyd- Friends of Matulu Shakur
Rosa Clemente- Malcolm X Grassroots Movement
Eddie Ellis- Former Political Prisoner and prison reform Activist


3 to 5:30pm- The Globalization of Reparations:
            The North-South Struggle-  Auditorium

CJ Munford- Canada
Dudley Thompson- Jamaica
Sir Tony Gifford- England
Muntu Matsimela- US
Prof. Asha Samad Matias- CCNY Black Studies
NCOBRA Representative -
December 12th Movement
Dennis Brutus- Jubilee2000- South Africa
Art Serota- South African Reparations Movement
Hector Bermudez- Puerto Rican Reparationist

5:30- 6:30 - Visit Vendors and Dinnertime

In the A. Phillip Randolph Hi School Auditorium...
6:30-7pm-  Cultural/Spiritual Presentation-
     Vinie Burrows Reparations Monologue & Jessica Care-Moore-
poetry

7 to 10pm-     Reparations: A Critical Analysis-
            Ideas, concepts, and theories of the Reparations Movement

CJ Munford  ◘  Amiri Baraka   ◘  Maulana Karenga
  ◘  Tony Gifford  ◘  Dudley Thompson

Sunday Nov 4- 10am to 4pm in the NAC Ballroom @ CCNY
NOTE: this most crucial part of the Conference is open to all
conference attendees

Round Table Discussion:
International Global Strategy For Building The Reparations Education
and Mobilization Movement

Workshop Reportbacks
Strategy & Program
The Barbados Conference- Actions
The Durban Conference- Actions
Organizing Local Tribunals
Creating an International Steering Committee
November 5- Black Solidarity Day African Burial Ground Tribute




Contacts:
Sam Anderson- Medgar Evers College, Center For Law & Social Justice
718.270.6287
or...
Attny. Muntu Matsimela- 914.664.0943 >>




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2252
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-29 08:46:01
Subject:??War on Terrorism against US Women
Message:

domenstic violence = terrorism against females
where are our revolutionary discussions about the women's question.

				Young women face high abuse risk
                     10/29/01

                     BY JENNIFER LOVEN
                     ASSOCIATED PRESS

                     WASHINGTON -- Women in their high school years to their 
mid-20s are nearly three times as vulnerable to attack by a husband, 
boyfriend or former partner as those in other age groups, a Bureau of 
Justice Statistics study shows.

                     But domestic violence victims between the ages of 35 
and 49 are most likely to be killed, the Justice Department said yesterday, 
citing statistics from 1999.

                     Julie Fulcher, director of public policy for the 
National Coalition Against Domestic Violence, said her group's experience 
shows younger women are indeed at higher risk. She said their slightly older 
counterparts are probably more likely to die at the hands of a partner 
because they are more likely to live with their abusers, leaving them more 
exposed to their violence.

                     "We do know that domestic violence as a pattern of 
behavior tends to . . . escalate over time," Fulcher said. "Domestic 
violence doesn't generally begin on a first date. It begins with some 
controlling behaviors."

                     There were a total of 791,210 "intimate partner 
violence" victims in 1999. Eighty-five percent of the attacks were against 
women, including 1,218 murders, 91,470 rapes and sexual assaults, 65,970 
robberies, 68,810 aggravated assaults and 444,860 simple assaults, the 
report said.

                     The information on murders came from FBI data, which is 
based on reports made to 17,000 police agencies nationwide. All other 
statistics were gleaned from interviews with over 650,000 people over age 
12, adding data on the larger number of crimes that go unreported.

                     The report defined "intimates" as current or former 
husbands or wives, boyfriends or girlfriends, or same-sex partners.

                     A little more than half of domestic violence crimes -- 
against men and women -- between 1993 and 1999 were committed by a current 
boyfriend or girlfriend, a third by a spouse and the rest by an ex-spouse. 
About 10 percent of domestic crimes against men and 2 percent of domestic 
crimes against women were committed by a partner of the same gender, the 
report found.

                     Overall, six women out of 1,000 were victims of 
domestic violence in 1999 -- a 41 percent decrease since 1993, mirroring a 
nationwide crime drop over the decade.

                     "But the rate of violence against intimate partners did 
not go down as much as other crimes," said Justice statistician Callie 
Rennison, the report's author. "It tells me that this is perhaps a more 
stubborn problem."

                     Sixteen out of every 1,000 women between the ages of 16 
and 24 were attacked by an intimate in 1999 -- the highest rate of any age 
group, the report said.

                     Eighty-one percent of all female victims faced an 
unarmed offender, but half the attacks resulted in injury -- the vast 
majority of them minor, the report said.

                     Victimization rates were similar between racial groups, 
except that black women between 20 and 24 years old tended to experience 
more attacks than white women.

                     Women who were separated or divorced also reported 
higher rates of violence from partners or ex-partners than those who were 
married, widowed or never wed. However, Rennison urged some caution in 
interpreting the statistics by marital status, saying married women may be 
more unwilling than others to report violent behavior -- or even to 
acknowledge it as violent.

                     Of all murdered women between 35 and 49, 38 percent 
were killed by an intimate partner -- more than any other age group. But 
Rennison said she was startled to discover the rate for 12- to 15-year-old 
girls: A tenth of homicides in that age group were committed by the girls' 
boyfriends.


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Post ID:2253
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-29 09:26:25
Subject:work election day $$
Message:

mcgreevey is paying $75 to work election day
i can help people get set up in New Brunswick or Newark
if you are interested, respond promptly. joe

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Post ID:2254
Sender:Joseph Kaminski <jkaminsk@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-29 09:58:59
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] work election day $$
Message:

Why work for McGreevy whose paying only $75, when you can work for
Schundler whose paying $85!  See kids who hold the financial resources.

Vote Schundler, smash communism

Joe Kaminski

On Mon, 29 Oct 2001, joseph smith wrote:

> mcgreevey is paying $75 to work election day
> i can help people get set up in New Brunswick or Newark
> if you are interested, respond promptly. joe
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RUGreens-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2255
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-30 13:38:54
Subject:Next Latin@ Coalition Meeting
Message:

The Latin@ Coaltion for Peace with Justice is having our next General Open 
Meeting this Thursday at 6pm.  Please join us in our efforts to build an 
Anti-War/Anti-racist Movement in the Latin@ communities of New York City.  
This meeting we will be talking about our upcoming forum and possible Latin@ 
March to end the war!!

Next Meeting:
Thursday November 1st, 2001 at 6pm
I.S. 164 located on the corner of
w164th-w165th and Edgecomb Avenue
Take the A,1,9 trains to w168th St.
and walk two blocks to Edgecomb Avenue

For more information on the Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice please 
contact LatinCPJ@... or call 718-601-4751
____________________________________________________________________
The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice is a coalition of different 
organizations, individuals, churches, Leftist groups, and youth groups that 
have come together to educate, organize, and mobilize the Latino Communities 
in New York as an effort to support the current Anti-War and Anti-Racist 
movement.  We recognize that this war is racist and an imperialist.  We 
exist as a coalition to address the direct impact that this war is having 
and going to have in the Latino Community of New York.

Already, we have seen that the $40 Billion that is going to finance this war 
is coming from youth service agencies, GED/Public education programs, Public 
Assistance Programs, and Public Afterschool/Day care funds.  These cuts in 
the funds allocated to Community Based Organizations and Public Service 
groups are having a negative effect in the Latin@ community.  We have young 
people being denied the right to receive their educational equivalences, 
working parents have no place to send their children after school, and 
working class people are being denied access to public funds to buy food.

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice recognizes that the U.S.
Military Recruitment drive and Police Academy Recruitment in the Latin@ 
community has risen by nearly 35%.  By taking away educational funds from 
high schools and GED programs, our youth have no choice but to seek 
employment in the Armed Services or Police Academy.  The Military is 
recruiting youth from Latin@ working class communities because they see this 
as an excellent opportunity to fill their ranks with people who will be the 
first to enter war zones and die.  The Police also sees this as an 
opportunity to gain more recruits to help- oppress social justice and 
anti-war activists who will be hitting the streets protesting and organizing 
against the war.  Our youth are being turned into soldiers to support 
American imperialism and Police men to help oppress their own communities.

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice also exists to combat the
message that the mass media has been promoting since Sept. 11th.  This
indirect and pro-war message that Arabs and Islam are to blame for the war 
has manifested itself in Latin@s engaging in acts of violence against Arab 
youth in the Bronx and Brooklyn.  The Latin@ Coaltion for Peace with Justice 
sees these acts of violence as our communities expressing their 
media-inspired fear, confusion and vicitimization.  Therefore, the Coalition 
will be focusing in on educating our community about the current war crisis, 
the need for international solidarity and peace among all oppressed peoples.

This coalition is also going to address the plight of the many undocumented 
Latin@s in our communities who have become the victims of increased INS 
raids that have ended with the brutalization and death of many these 
hard-working immigrants.  This war has become an opportunity to fuel 
xenophobia and mistrust of immigrant communities. This xenophobia has made 
the Pro-Amnesty movement for undocumented workers very difficult.  Many 
undocumented people in Latin@ communities have become fearful for their 
safety and have been forced to live under even worse living conditions then 
before.

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice believes in the need to
prioritize in the education and mobilization of the Latin@ community. As a 
working class people of color community, we are directly impacted by the 
negative repercussions of this war.  We see it as our duty to address these 
issues in our communities; and do what we can to promote peace and 
solidarity among all communities.











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Post ID:2256
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-30 23:48:06
Subject:Update on Mumia and Sundiata
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign has sent these two updates on Mumia Abu 
Jamal and Sundiata Acoli so that folks can keep updated on what is happening 
with our African american brother and sister Political prisoners!!

FREE MUMIA!! FREE SUNDIATA!!
FREE THE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS!!

ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
__________________________________________________________________________

Philadelphia Inquirer, Saturday, October 27, 2001
Judge rejects Abu-Jamal's request to suspend appeal

A federal judge has denied a request by lawyers for convicted police
killer Mumia Abu-Jamal to suspend the federal appeal of his conviction
and death sentence while they try to reopen his appeals in the
Pennsylvania courts.

U.S. District Judge William H. Yohn Jr., in an order last week, denied
the July request by Abu-Jamal's lawyers to suspend his two-year-old
federal appeal proceedings while they try to reopen his state
post-conviction appeals on the grounds that his original legal team
misrepresented him because of conflicts of interest. A corresponding
motion to open Abu-Jamal's state court appeal is pending before Common
Pleas Court Judge Pamela Pryor Dembe.

Abu-Jamal, a former radio commentator and black activist, was convicted
of murder and sentenced to death in the Dec. 9, 1981, shooting of Police
Officer Daniel Faulkner during an early-morning car stop by Faulkner of
Abu-Jamal's brother.

Earlier this year Abu-Jamal's new lawyers released a purported
confession to the shooting by another man, a self-described hit man.
Abu-Jamal's federal appeal is the first stage of his third and final
round of appeals to reverse his death sentence.

On behalf of the
National Office of Refuse & Resist!
305 Madison Ave., Suite 1166
NY, NY 10165
http://www.refuseandresist.org
info@...
Tel:�� 212.713.5657

_______________________________________________________________________________


WE MUST FIGHT ON FOR SUNDIATA!
Dare To Struggle...We Will Win!!!

I just got off the phone with Atty. Chris Bergen less than 10 minutes ago. I 
am copying this communication to my list.� The following is what I 
understood Atty. Bergen to state regarding his conversation with political 
prisoner Sundiata Acoli who still remains in segregation/isolation inside 
the prison.

�	�
"Just in the last week the prison administration has agreed to allow 
Sundiata to call his Attorney Jill� Elijah.� The prison administration 
stated that Sundiata and 15 others were rounded up because they were anti 
government type people and/or they had explosives in their past.� When the 
others were sent back, Sundiata was kept in segregation.� He was told by the 
administration that he would be held for a while because he was a member of 
the Black Panther Party.�� He can not go outside at all, he is constantly 
confined to his cell.� The prison administration is telling Sundiata that he 
may be in segregation longer because he/Sundiata got a suspicioius package 
at the post office and it may be anthrax.� Sundiata states that he is not 
sick and he is not being physically abused.� He is glad that Fred (Hampton 
Jr.) is out!� He particularly liked how Fred handled himself while in jail.� 
That was impressive."

�	�
Attorney Chris Bergen will call Atty. Jill Elijah tomorrow to make sure she 
got her legal call through today.� I will pass this information on as well.� 
Much thanks and appreciaton to Atty. Chris Bergen.� I will continue to 
pursue other Attys. to make legal call to prison as per previous discussion 
with Anna Standing Deer.

�	�
I spoke by phone prior to sending this e-mail to Sistah Shiriki who is the 
spokesperson for the Sundiata Acoli campaign.� I asked her to give us 
direction on how to move.� She will get back with me.

�	�
The utmost respect, love, and appreciation for our courageous 
Brother/Comrade/Warrior Sundiata Acoli...we must continue to fight until 
Sundiata gets/until we get....

�	�
Freedom In Our Lifetime!

Akua Njeri






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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2257
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-31 00:18:52
Subject:Next Latin@ Coalition Meeting
Message:

The Latin@ Coaltion for Peace with Justice is having our next General Open
Meeting this Thursday at 6pm.� Please join us in our efforts to build an
Anti-War/Anti-racist Movement in the Latin@ communities of New York City.�
This meeting we will be talking about our upcoming forum and possible Latin@
March to end the war!!

To join our listserve please email: LCPJ-List-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Next Meeting:
Thursday November 1st, 2001 at 6pm
I.S. 164 located on the corner of
w164th-w165th and Edgecomb Avenue
Take the A,1,9 trains to w168th St.
and walk two blocks to Edgecomb Avenue

For more information on the Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice please
contact LatinCPJ@... or call 718-601-4751
____________________________________________________________________
The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice is a coalition of different
organizations, individuals, churches, Leftist groups, and youth groups that
have come together to educate, organize, and mobilize the Latino Communities
in New York as an effort to support the current Anti-War and Anti-Racist
movement.� We recognize that this war is racist and an imperialist.� We
exist as a coalition to address the direct impact that this war is having
and going to have in the Latino Community of New York.

Already, we have seen that the $40 Billion that is going to finance this war
is coming from youth service agencies, GED/Public education programs, Public
Assistance Programs, and Public Afterschool/Day care funds.� These cuts in
the funds allocated to Community Based Organizations and Public Service
groups are having a negative effect in the Latin@ community.� We have young
people being denied the right to receive their educational equivalences,
working parents have no place to send their children after school, and
working class people are being denied access to public funds to buy food.

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice recognizes that the U.S.
Military Recruitment drive and Police Academy Recruitment in the Latin@
community has risen by nearly 35%.� By taking away educational funds from
high schools and GED programs, our youth have no choice but to seek
employment in the Armed Services or Police Academy.� The Military is
recruiting youth from Latin@ working class communities because they see this
as an excellent opportunity to fill their ranks with people who will be the
first to enter war zones and die.� The Police also sees this as an
opportunity to gain more recruits to help- oppress social justice and
anti-war activists who will be hitting the streets protesting and organizing
against the war.� Our youth are being turned into soldiers to support
American imperialism and Police men to help oppress their own communities.

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice also exists to combat the
message that the mass media has been promoting since Sept. 11th.� This
indirect and pro-war message that Arabs and Islam are to blame for the war
has manifested itself in Latin@s engaging in acts of violence against Arab
youth in the Bronx and Brooklyn.� The Latin@ Coaltion for Peace with Justice
sees these acts of violence as our communities expressing their
media-inspired fear, confusion and vicitimization.� Therefore, the Coalition
will be focusing in on educating our community about the current war crisis,
the need for international solidarity and peace among all oppressed peoples.

This coalition is also going to address the plight of the many undocumented
Latin@s in our communities who have become the victims of increased INS
raids that have ended with the brutalization and death of many these
hard-working immigrants.� This war has become an opportunity to fuel
xenophobia and mistrust of immigrant communities. This xenophobia has made
the Pro-Amnesty movement for undocumented workers very difficult.� Many
undocumented people in Latin@ communities have become fearful for their
safety and have been forced to live under even worse living conditions then
before.

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice believes in the need to
prioritize in the education and mobilization of the Latin@ community. As a
working class people of color community, we are directly impacted by the
negative repercussions of this war.� We see it as our duty to address these
issues in our communities; and do what we can to promote peace and
solidarity among all communities.














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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2258
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-10-31 08:42:56
Subject:Revolutionary Democracy & Electoral Politics
Message:

(Please take the time to forward this announcement)

	  New Brunswick Peoples Campaign presents

                     RAS BARAKA
       Newark City Council Candidate May 2002

"REVOLUTIONARY DEMOCRATIC STRUGGLE & ELECTORAL POLITICS"

intro: Trevor Phillips
		LC Alum - Black Nia Force

opening: Keith Joseph
  		RU Alum - NB Peoples Campaign
		NB city council candidate nov.'00

mc: Joe Smith
		UC student - NB Peoples Campaign

poetry: Rain
		Rutgers Theater Arts

Thursday November 1 @6:30pm
Paul Robeson Cultural Center

  NB Peoples Campaign 2002
UNITE THE MANY DEFEAT THE FEW!

contact joe smith 586.5535 can_bush@...

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2259
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-01 01:13:29
Subject:Clemency for Fred Hampton Jr.
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign asks all of our supporters to participate 
in this letter writing campaign and to forward this message out throughout  
all lists.  Help us demand clemency for Fred Hampton Jr.!!

FREE THE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
FREE ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS!!

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244

___________________________________________________________________________________
From Khalil -
>
>Comrades here's just a reminder of the fight for clemency that our brother
>Fred Hampton Jr. is still fighting for clemency based on his
>innocence.� Even though he is out in the field he has yet to become FREE!
>Here is a letter to the Governor (the only one who can grant his clemency).
>Please sign and include your return addresss.� Please forward any response
>you may get to: BLKAGENDA@... , Attn Good Daughter.
>
>Send it out by fax or mail and pass it on to your mailing lists.
>
>DARE TO STRUGGLE DARE TO WIN!
>uhuru or death
>Sha'KMT aka GOOD DAUGHTER
>

>Governor George Ryan
>State of Illinois
>207 State House Road
>Springfield, IL� 62706� FAX:� 217-524-4049
>
>Dear Governor Ryan:
>
>I am writing you in regards to Fred Hampton Jr. aka Alfred Johnson a
>political prisoner released from Statesville Correctional Facility on
>September 14, 2001 based on time served and the application of� "good
>time." I am requesting that you grant Fred Jr. clemency on the grounds
>of� his innocence in relation to the May 12, 1992 charges of committing
>arson to� a store� in Chicago.� I am also requesting that you thoroughly
>review the entire case and all "so-called" evidence.� In reviewing the case
>you will see that there is� isn't any physical evidence of Fred Hampton Jr.
>setting fire to the store. Fred Hampton Jr.'s background clearly shows his
>dedication to the community and his� pursuits towards improvement of it.
>
>Fred Jr. has served 8 plus years in numerous state penitentiaries� for
>something he did not do. Now that he is released, he is still under strict
>parole stipulations.�� Fred Hampton Jr. and his family have been torn apart
>enough. I am� requesting that you take all measures to exonerate him of
>these false charges.� I urge you to grant clemency based on innocence to
>Fred Hampton Jr.
>
>Thank you for your time and patience in reading this letter. I trust� that
>you will take speedy action in ensuring the reinstatement of Fred Jr.'s
>rights.
>
>Respectfully,________________________________________________
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2260
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-01 11:17:45
Subject:FREE TITO KAYAK!!
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign urges all supporters of the Puerto Rican 
Liberation movement and the movement to get the U.S. navy out of Vieques to 
participate in this activity.  Forward this far and wide as well.

FREE TITO KAYAK!!  LIBERTAD PARA TITO KAYAK!!

The proLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
_________________________________________________________

SUPPORT FOR "TITO KAYAK" (Alberto de Jes�s)

Our brother, was held in solitary confinement for 32 days in New York
by the Federal Bureau of Prisons, in spite of the fact that
Magistrate Michael Dollinger asked that he be transfered back home to
Puerto Rico.

Why was Alberto de Jesus held in solitary?
Why hasn't he been transfered back to Puerto Rico?

Vieques' prisoner of consciousness Alberto De Jes�s Mercado, a.k.a.
Tito Kayak, was held, for more than one month, in solitary
confinement amid abusive conditions in a Federal Jail in Manhattan.

Please join an advocacy campaign in his support taking place on the
1st and 2nd of November.

Please, demand that Alberto De Jes�s be transfered to Puerto Rico as
requested by Magistrate Michael Dollinger.

Call and Fax the following offices during Nov. 1 & 2 from 9am-12 & 1-
5pm.


TALKING POINTS
1. Full Name
2. Occupation
3. State/City and/or organization
4. Please, demand that Alberto De Jes�s be transfered to Puerto Rico
as requested by Magistrate Michael Dollinger. His immediate family
lives in Puerto Rico.

Alberto De Jes�s Mercado BOP # is 19580-069

Please communicate with:

JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
(205) 353-1555

Mr. John Ashcroft
Attorney General
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20530

Please, communicate via the
Civil Rights Division,
Ralph F. Boyd, Jr.

tel: (202) 514-2151
fax: (202) 514-0293
     (202) 307-2572
     (202) 307-2839



Kathleen M. Hawk Sayer
Director
Federal Bureau of Prisons
320 First Street N.W.
Washington, DC 20534


tel: (202) 307-3198
      (202) 307-3250
fax: (202) 514-6878


Mr. Gregory Park
Warden
Metropolitan Detention Center
150 Park Row
N.Y., N.Y. 10007

tel: (212) 240-9656
fax: (212) 417-7673


For more information, please contact Carmen Chazulle at (787) 562-
8552.




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2261
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-01 11:37:20
Subject:Miami Five Activity-Nov. 10th
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign Is calling on all folks to come out and 
support this activity.

FREE THE MIAMI FIVE!!
FREE ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS!!

The proLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
_______________________________________________________________

FREE THE MIAMI FIVE! DEBUT NEW YORK CITY EVENT
TEACH-IN on NOVEMBER 10th
Saturday @ 6 pm
St. Mary's Episcopal Church @ 521 W. 126th St.
Amsterdam & 126th, St. Mary's Pl, Take the A or D to 125th
Suggested donation: $5 (no one turned away for lack of funds)
SPONSORED BY NEW YORK CITY FREE THE FIVE COMMITTEE
freethefivenyc@..., 212-633-6646, 212-926-5757

Who are the Miami Five?
They are five Cubans, who were convicted in June 2001 in US federal court 
for defending their homeland of Cuba, from terrorists in Miami.  After their 
arrest in September 1998 by the FBI they were placed in solidarity 
confinement for 17 months.  After the trial they were put back into Security 
Housing Unites in total isolation, where they remain today, awaiting 
sentencing.  The five Cubans were convicted after a
politically-charged trial, in which the US government claimed that the five 
were engaged in espionage against US military bases and threatening 
"national security."  But the Miami Five pointed out vigorously in their  
defense that they were involved only in monitoring the actions of the 
Miami-based right-wing terrorist groups.  In fact, Cuba has shared 
information with the US government about dangerous actions planned by the 
terrorist groups.

For more info, see the IFCO/Pastors for Peace website at:
www.ifconews.org

Jennifer Wager
Cuba program co-coordinator



IFCO/Pastors for Peace
402 W 145th Street, New York City, NY 10031
212-926-5757; fax: 212-926-5842; email: ifco@...;
web: http://www.ifconews.org



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2263
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-03 18:07:59
Subject:Solidarity for Eddie Hatcher
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is calling on all our supporters to take 
part in this letter writing/fax campaign for Native American Political 
Prisoner Eddie Hatcher.  To learn more about Eddie Hatcher check out the 
site below.

FREE THE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
FREE ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
FREE EDDIE HATCHER!!

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.Prolibertad.org
bronx 718-601-4751
manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
_____________________________________________________________________________________

www.eddiehatcher.org

URGENT ALERT!
"Eddie is not doing well right now.� Physically or mentally.� He has lost an
excessive amount of weight.� He is being singled out, harassed and
intimidated daily, so much that he stays in his cell for as many as 22 hours
each day. Raleigh, and the DOC contact people on his website need to be
notified that there are people out there concerned and watching his fate
which is in the hands of North Carolina DOC.� I am truely scared that Eddie
will die soon if someone does not intervene....Please stay in touch.� I am
trying to do my best since our mother passed in July.� Please help us......"

Ginger Ammerman
Eddie's sister

We an't gonna take this shit!
MASSIVE CALL AND FAX JAM BEGINING NOW!
here are the targets and demands:

Mr. Sid Harkeleroad
Superintendent
Marion Correctional Institute
Marion, NC 28752
828-659-6814

and

Mr. Franklin Freeman
Governor's Chief of Staff
20301 Mail Service Center
Raleigh, NC 27699-0301
919-733-6184

1.Demand to know the current condition and whereabouts of eddie hatcher.

2.Demand an end to eddie� being held under 22 hour lock down.

3.Demand an end to the harassment of eddie by the staff of the prison Mr.
Sid Harkeleroad included.

4.Let them know that you will not stop calling or doing other actions untill
eddie is free and healthy.The whole world is watching.

Other targets for phone and fax actions:

Governor Michael F. Easley
Office of the Governor
20301 Mail Service CenterRaleigh, NC 27699-0301
Fax: (919)715-3175 or (919)733-2120


Franklin Freeman (Governor Mike Easley's Chief of Staff)
919-733-6184
fax� 919-715-3175

Senator Frank Ballance
919-715-3032
fax 919-856-9686


Assistant U.S. Attorney General
Civil Rights Division
US Department of Justice10th & Constitution Ave, NW
Washington, DC 20530(202) 514-2151
For these targets stress a civil rights investagetion
as well as the above demands.
WE WILL NOT SIT HERE AND LET OUR FELLOW FIGHTERS BE
SENTENCED TO DEATH.PRISON IS ALSO A FORM OF LEAGAL
LYNCHING WHEN IT INCORPRATES:HARASSMENT,ISOLATION,and
TOURTOURE as in the case of Eddie Hatcher.
Please FORWARD this message around the world and
please if you can translate it into other languges for
more info about eddie hatcher please vist www.eddiehatcher.org




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2264
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-11-03 21:03:13
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: Suddenly, Americans Trust Uncle Sam
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


uh huh

can_bush@...


Suddenly, Americans Trust Uncle Sam

November 3, 2001 

By ALEXANDER STILLE


Since Sept. 11, the country has found a renewed faith in
some institutions, but it may not last.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/03/arts/03TRUS.html?ex=1005839392&ei=1&en=33634d9e7d15a45b



HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters 
or other creative advertising opportunities with The 
New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson 
Racer at alyson@... or visit our online media 
kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo

For general information about NYTimes.com, write to 
help@....  

Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2265
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-04 21:36:30
Subject:Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:

Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest assesment of the role 
of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous 
results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green Party, 
this is one progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office" for 
lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly insisted there was 
no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, & with Nader 
campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where Nader carried 
92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election (a gross violation 
of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce Afrin's less-slick echo 
of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely spoon-fed only 
defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" rather than real 
substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces (including Nader 
himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the right-wing Bush family 
oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring leading us to economic disaster 
and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been warning the Greens, et al. about 
this scenario since being brow-beat for suggesting Bradley was a better 
dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for the intentions of many 
Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party hasn't yet figured it out, & 
my vote will reflect this. & for those who like to quote Mao, recall his 
words on "intentions" (On Practice/On Contradictions)--that the "truest 
criteria with which to judge intentions are *material results*.

Unity & Struggle,
Matthew Smith

Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST

With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey holding a 
double-digit
lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine points, there is
ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote their conscience and
cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green Party for Governor. Jerry 
is
the only candidate putting forward the progressive agenda: a ban on "consent
searches"' universal health care, adequate spending for public education,
jobs and housing, a living wage and independent and effective civilian 
review
of police misconduct allegations.

When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we can only
conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race. Therefore,
vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2266
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-05 00:00:53
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in facilitating 
Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we humanity is now faced with 
is put foward by the Green Party, this is one progressive that will never 
vote Green for "higher office" for lack of trust, to start."   -ms

merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for reactionary 
greenback$, "progressive"?

u&s position is: greens are right.

peoples' war on the right.
combat liberalism.

cs


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, can_bush@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>CC: bbz@..., blombard@..., 
>cjangel@..., jstanton@..., tabenigno@..., 
>tg347@..., behorne@..., khabirah@..., 
>1blackmale@..., E_MacBlain@..., Ceettadili@..., 
>AMAlston1@..., poetas@..., locicero@..., 
>sztamke@..., krisbas@..., kvt@..., 
>csevans@..., daverapp@..., kb2zuz@..., 
>MidsummerVixen@..., DVG716@..., aquataffy4@..., 
>morguebabe77@..., bgigas@..., Jordel7@..., 
>Skyblue122@..., elizabethia@..., atupahache@..., 
>Eman101@..., Amirib@..., HRose16342@..., iacenter@..., 
>Mkouyate@..., pjustice2000@..., PrimeMinister901@..., 
>TooTallLa@..., Coolretta@..., MNorales@..., 
>Meratj@..., Voyageur1234@..., blackjack76@..., 
>TheStudentActionCommittee@egroups.c
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 02:36:30
>
>To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
>
>Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest assesment of the role
>of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous
>results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green 
>Party,
>this is one progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office" for
>lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly insisted there 
>was
>no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, & with Nader
>campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where Nader carried
>92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election (a gross 
>violation
>of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce Afrin's less-slick echo
>of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely spoon-fed only
>defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" rather than real
>substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces (including Nader
>himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the right-wing Bush family
>oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring leading us to economic 
>disaster
>and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been warning the Greens, et al. about
>this scenario since being brow-beat for suggesting Bradley was a better
>dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for the intentions of many
>Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party hasn't yet figured it out, &
>my vote will reflect this. & for those who like to quote Mao, recall his
>words on "intentions" (On Practice/On Contradictions)--that the "truest
>criteria with which to judge intentions are *material results*.
>
>Unity & Struggle,
>Matthew Smith
>
>Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
>
>With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey holding a
>double-digit
>lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine points, there is
>ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote their conscience and
>cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green Party for Governor. Jerry
>is
>the only candidate putting forward the progressive agenda: a ban on 
>"consent
>searches"' universal health care, adequate spending for public education,
>jobs and housing, a living wage and independent and effective civilian
>review
>of police misconduct allegations.
>
>When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we can only
>conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race. Therefore,
>vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2267
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-05 00:32:24
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since an honest (& 
I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the Nader'00 farce 
would have to include an internal transformation of the party & bring them 
into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for revolutionary 
democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them a better 
alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic Machine in NB 
where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, it would be 
necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as it would be a 
different party with a different leading ideology. It would still not be a 
replacement for the *mass* independant party that must & will eventually 
emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the Greens think they are now 
that)



----Original Message Follows----
From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:00:53 +0000

"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in facilitating
Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we humanity is now faced with
is put foward by the Green Party, this is one progressive that will never
vote Green for "higher office" for lack of trust, to start."   -ms

merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for reactionary
greenback$, "progressive"?

u&s position is: greens are right.

peoples' war on the right.
combat liberalism.

cs


 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, can_bush@...,
 >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >CC: bbz@..., blombard@...,
 >cjangel@..., jstanton@..., tabenigno@...,
 >tg347@..., behorne@..., khabirah@...,
 >1blackmale@..., E_MacBlain@..., Ceettadili@...,
 >AMAlston1@..., poetas@..., locicero@...,
 >sztamke@..., krisbas@..., kvt@...,
 >csevans@..., daverapp@..., kb2zuz@...,
 >MidsummerVixen@..., DVG716@..., aquataffy4@...,
 >morguebabe77@..., bgigas@..., Jordel7@...,
 >Skyblue122@..., elizabethia@..., atupahache@...,
 >Eman101@..., Amirib@..., HRose16342@..., 
iacenter@...,
 >Mkouyate@..., pjustice2000@..., 
PrimeMinister901@...,
 >TooTallLa@..., Coolretta@..., MNorales@...,
 >Meratj@..., Voyageur1234@..., blackjack76@...,
 >TheStudentActionCommittee@egroups.c
 >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 02:36:30
 >
 >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
 >
 >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest assesment of the role
 >of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous
 >results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green
 >Party,
 >this is one progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office" for
 >lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly insisted there
 >was
 >no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, & with Nader
 >campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where Nader 
carried
 >92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election (a gross
 >violation
 >of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce Afrin's less-slick echo
 >of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely spoon-fed only
 >defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" rather than real
 >substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces (including Nader
 >himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the right-wing Bush family
 >oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring leading us to economic
 >disaster
 >and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been warning the Greens, et al. about
 >this scenario since being brow-beat for suggesting Bradley was a better
 >dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for the intentions of many
 >Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party hasn't yet figured it out, 
&
 >my vote will reflect this. & for those who like to quote Mao, recall his
 >words on "intentions" (On Practice/On Contradictions)--that the "truest
 >criteria with which to judge intentions are *material results*.
 >
 >Unity & Struggle,
 >Matthew Smith
 >
 >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
 >
 >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey holding a
 >double-digit
 >lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine points, there is
 >ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote their conscience and
 >cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green Party for Governor. Jerry
 >is
 >the only candidate putting forward the progressive agenda: a ban on
 >"consent
 >searches"' universal health care, adequate spending for public education,
 >jobs and housing, a living wage and independent and effective civilian
 >review
 >of police misconduct allegations.
 >
 >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we can only
 >conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race. Therefore,
 >vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
 >
 >
 >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 >poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
 >
 >
 >
 >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________
 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2268
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-05 17:43:38
Subject:Re: Final US ultimate warning to Iraq
Message:

joe asks:
	what should we do about the world fraud?
fraud responds:
	we should vote for the greens for a better world.

warn your children, parents, the fraud lurks...
we must fight the opportunist fraud with revolutionary democracy.
presently imperialism is stronger than the people and that is why the people 
are actively defending themselves with their vote to defeat schundler.


>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
>Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
>To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>, 
>"Anti- War Coalition" <antiwarcoalition@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [onepeoplesproject] Final US ultimate warning to Iraq
>Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:40:54 -0500
>
>Final US ultimate warning to Iraq
>Iraq-USA, Politics, 11/5/2001
>
>The Kuwaiti daily al-Seyash issued on Sunday quoted sources at the British 
>house of commons as saying that the British prime minister Tony Blair asked 
>the Jordanian King Abdullah II during his visit to Amman to convey a final 
>warning from the US administration to Iraq on the need of accepting the 
>return back of the UN inspectors to Baghdad within three weeks, otherwise 
>the next station of the war against terrorism after Afghanistan will be 
>Iraq.
>
>The sources indicated that Iraq was told about the warning through an envoy 
>in the Jordanian royal court.
>
>The sources also told the paper about information reported from Moscow that 
>the Russian foreign minister Igore Ivanov conveyed to the Russian 
>administration following his meeting with the US secretary of state Colin 
>Powell about a conviction formed within himself that a British- American 
>attacks at Baghdad has become very near.
>
>Source: arabicnews.com
>
>http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/011105/2001110505.html
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2269
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-05 23:01:21
Subject:Latin@ Coalition Next Mtg
Message:

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice is having its next meeting this 
Thursday Nov. 8th at 6:30pm at I.S. 164 (w164th St.-w165th St. and Edgecombe 
Avenue).  Take the a,1,9, to w168th St. and Broadway and walk up two blocks.

We will be discussing our Educational Forum (Nov. 30th-More info coming 
later) and the possible New York Latin@ March for Peace.

For more info. on the Coalition please call 718-601-4751
Email LatinCPJ@... and
Join our list LCPJ-List-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

****Check out our growing Coalition list at the bottom of our Unity 
Statement****

______________________________________________________________________

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice is a coalition of different
organizations, individuals, churches, Leftist groups, and youth groups that
have come together to educate, organize, and mobilize the Latino Communities
in New York as an effort to support the current Anti-War and Anti-Racist
movement.� We recognize that this war is racist and an imperialist.��We
exist as a coalition to address the direct impact that this war is having
and going to have in the Latino Community of New York.

Already, we have seen that the $40 Billion that is going to finance this war
is coming from youth service agencies, GED/Public education programs, Public
Assistance Programs, and Public Afterschool/Day care funds.� These cuts in
the funds allocated to Community Based Organizations and Public Service
groups are having a negative effect in the Latin@ community.� We have young
people being denied the right to receive their educational equivalences,
working parents have no place to send their children after school, and
working class people are being denied access to public funds to buy food.

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice recognizes that the U.S.
Military Recruitment drive and Police Academy Recruitment in the Latin@
community has risen by nearly 35%.� By taking away educational funds from
high schools and GED programs, our youth have no choice but to seek
employment in the Armed Services or Police Academy.� The Military is
recruiting youth from Latin@ working class communities because they see this
as an excellent opportunity to fill their ranks with people who will be the
first to enter war zones and die.� The Police also sees this as an
opportunity to gain more recruits to help- oppress social justice and
anti-war activists who will be hitting the streets protesting and organizing
against the war.� Our youth are being turned into soldiers to support
American imperialism and Police men to help oppress their own communities.

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice also exists to combat the
message that the mass media has been promoting since Sept. 11th.� This
indirect and pro-war message that Arabs and Islam are to blame for the war
has manifested itself in Latin@s engaging in acts of violence against Arab
youth in the Bronx and Brooklyn.� The Latin@ Coaltion for Peace with Justice
sees these acts of violence as our communities expressing their
media-inspired fear, confusion and vicitimization.� Therefore, the Coalition
will be focusing in on educating our community about the current war crisis,
the need for international solidarity and peace among all oppressed peoples.

This coalition is also going to address the plight of the many undocumented
Latin@s in our communities who have become the victims of increased INS
raids that have ended with the brutalization and death of many these
hard-working immigrants.� This war has become an opportunity to fuel
xenophobia and mistrust of immigrant communities.� This xenophobia has made
the Pro-Amnesty movement for undocumented workers very difficult.� Many
undocumented people in Latin@ communities have become fearful for their
safety and have been forced to live under even worse living conditions then
before.

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice believes in the need to
prioritize in the education and mobilization of the Latin@ community.� As a
working class people of color community, we are directly impacted by the
negative repercussions of this war.� We see it as our duty to address these
issues in our communities; and do what we can to promote peace and
solidarity among all communities.

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice (LCPJ):

ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
The Vieques Support Campaign
The Working Group On Puerto Rico/Frente Socialista
La Iglesia San Romero de Las Americas
La Iglesia San Juan Bautista
Bronx Community College's Student Government
Poder Latino
Atrevete Latino Youth
Broadway Methodist Temple
Fuera de La revolucion
Partido Comunista Trabajadora
Washington Heights Peace Coalition (Name not secure yet)
Centro del Desarollo de la Mujer Dominicana














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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2270
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-06 12:55:54
Subject:Re: to JoeF & Green accounability
Message:

JoeF,
First of all, your characterization of our (do you mean U&S) position on 
imperialism is totally--and since we have reiterated it ad nausium, I must 
wonder if knowingly--false.  Recall our position during election 1996: 
"Attack Clinton, Defeat Dole"  & again in 2000. (this, while DH/AH 
underhandedly pushed "Both are Worse" w/ U&S banner) In 2000, we called for 
a left-bloc united front against the obvious threat of fascism rising to 
power with this election.  The Greens' leadership & Nader rejected that 
plea.  Now your own members are being detained for opposing this disasterous 
Bush led, oil-economy war!!  Please, what is abstract about this?  What is 
abstract, when faced with the current epic crisis, about demanding answers 
as to why Nader broke his campaign pledge not to campaign in swing states, 
instead stumping heavily in Florida, not to mention Michigan, Oregon, 
Washington, etc?

What is indeed abstract, however, & again disengenuous, is for the Greens 
leaders to shuck responsibility for Nader's 92,000 Florida votes by poining 
to 500 votes from a handful of silly sectarian Trotskyite parties. *btw: 
Zogby poll indicated 60% Nader voters would have otherwise voted Gore*. What 
is also abstract is Nader & many Greens' suggestion that the main task is to 
beat Gore for his "betrayal" (!) & that a Bush victory would galvanize the 
movement. To wit: "I remember how Jim Watt, the Reagan administration's 
interior secretary , galvanized the enviro movement." Nader even told 
Outside Mag-R.Nader to Gail Collins, NYT, on possiblity of a Bush win.   
What is also abstract is Nader's suggestion that Bush is so far out of touch 
with current conditions(!) that he would immediately isolate himself & that 
"If you want the parties to diverge from one another, have Bush win."  
(Outsider Mag) He actually told Outsider that he would prefer Bush to Gore!  
He told NYT that the aim of the Greens is to *reform* the two parties! (this 
is a far cry from the party as an anti-imperialist united-front) He took a 
backwards "States' Rights" position on Roe V Wade, reflecting his liberal, 
national bourgeois class nature- to the left of Buchanon but sharing in 
populist outlook! Then, what is abstract is the Greens' leadership pushing 
Nader as the spearhead of an anit-imperialist united front!

Now, point by point, the opposite of the Green Party's best intentions has 
occured in reality (ergo, abstraction of theory) Instead of Bush isolated, 
most of the country is blindly united behind Bush's oil-war; Instead of Bush 
causing the parties to diverge, the Dem's have suckled  up to the far-right 
led initiatives with only scattered squeaks of criticism; instead of 
galvanizing the embryonic independent movement, the effect of Bush's fascist 
initiatives is that the movement has become stunned & lost it's bearings & 
momentum;

These are the material results of the intentions (in part good, questionable 
&/or opportunistic) of the Greens & Nader in the 2000 elections. & JoeF, 
this is my investigation & therefore my right to speak. I am glad that we 
will meet on Ras' campaign trail...although, from the looks of all the r,w&b 
flags in the hood, it would appear that the task of seizing local power has 
been made greatly more dangerous & difficult since B2, contrary to the 
illusions of some.

Unity & Struggle
Matthew Smith


, ----Original Message Follows----
From: jfortun845@...
Reply-To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 18:57:17 EST

In a message dated 11/4/01 9:39:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
vivaohio@... writes:


 > for those who like to quote Mao, recall his
 > words on "intentions" (On Practice/On Contradictions)--that the "truest
 > criteria with which to judge intentions are *material results*.
 >
 >

How about this one, Matt:

"No Investigation, no right to speak."

Fact is, the margin of victory for Bush in Florida was about 500 votes. By
your reckoning, even the Socialist candidate, David McReynolds, had enough
votes to sway the election. So did the SWP candidate and probably others,
too, but we don't see you relentlessly attacking them.

Nor do we see you attacking Clinton/ Gore for disenfranchising over 30,000
African-American voters in Florida with their draconian drug laws and
policies. This group, too, had their voting rights not been stripped, would
have put Gore over the top. Truly a case of the chickens coming home to
roost. But we can't attack the Democrats for this, now can we? And we can't
let the facts get in the way of our beautiful, if abstract, argument
attacking the Greens, either, can we?

The difference between your line and ours is that we call for a united front
against imperialism, while you call for a united front WITH imperialism, at
least with the part of it represented by the Democratic Party.

Brother Joe Smith doesn't bother with facts, either, when he launches his
crude and infantile attacks. I am not from Newark, as he claims, and never
have been, as if that were important one way or the other. Nevertheless, we
Greens, at my urging, endorsed and worked for the Ras Baraka campaign last
time around and presumably would do so again, despite the presence of
infantile and obnoxious "revolutionaries" hanging around the campaign, who
wouldn't know their friends from their enemies if they fell over them.


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2271
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-06 21:05:15
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

u&s line: greens are right.

yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party w/ a 
"different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the 
non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".

("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)

yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for their 
"facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...

profound.

peoples' war on the right.
combat liberalism.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:32:24
>
>Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since an honest (&
>I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the Nader'00 
>farce
>would have to include an internal transformation of the party & bring them
>into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for revolutionary
>democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them a better
>alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic Machine in NB
>where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, it would be
>necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as it would be a
>different party with a different leading ideology. It would still not be a
>replacement for the *mass* independant party that must & will eventually
>emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the Greens think they are now
>that)
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:00:53 +0000
>
>"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in facilitating
>Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we humanity is now faced 
>with
>is put foward by the Green Party, this is one progressive that will never
>vote Green for "higher office" for lack of trust, to start."   -ms
>
>merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for reactionary
>greenback$, "progressive"?
>
>u&s position is: greens are right.
>
>peoples' war on the right.
>combat liberalism.
>
>cs
>
>
>  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, can_bush@...,
>  >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >CC: bbz@..., blombard@...,
>  >cjangel@..., jstanton@..., tabenigno@...,
>  >tg347@..., behorne@..., khabirah@...,
>  >1blackmale@..., E_MacBlain@..., Ceettadili@...,
>  >AMAlston1@..., poetas@..., locicero@...,
>  >sztamke@..., krisbas@..., kvt@...,
>  >csevans@..., daverapp@..., kb2zuz@...,
>  >MidsummerVixen@..., DVG716@..., aquataffy4@...,
>  >morguebabe77@..., bgigas@..., Jordel7@...,
>  >Skyblue122@..., elizabethia@..., atupahache@...,
>  >Eman101@..., Amirib@..., HRose16342@...,
>iacenter@...,
>  >Mkouyate@..., pjustice2000@...,
>PrimeMinister901@...,
>  >TooTallLa@..., Coolretta@..., MNorales@...,
>  >Meratj@..., Voyageur1234@..., blackjack76@...,
>  >TheStudentActionCommittee@egroups.c
>  >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 02:36:30
>  >
>  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
>  >
>  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest assesment of the 
>role
>  >of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous
>  >results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green
>  >Party,
>  >this is one progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office" 
>for
>  >lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly insisted there
>  >was
>  >no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, & with Nader
>  >campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where Nader
>carried
>  >92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election (a gross
>  >violation
>  >of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce Afrin's less-slick 
>echo
>  >of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely spoon-fed only
>  >defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" rather than real
>  >substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces (including 
>Nader
>  >himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the right-wing Bush family
>  >oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring leading us to economic
>  >disaster
>  >and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been warning the Greens, et al. 
>about
>  >this scenario since being brow-beat for suggesting Bradley was a better
>  >dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for the intentions of 
>many
>  >Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party hasn't yet figured it 
>out,
>&
>  >my vote will reflect this. & for those who like to quote Mao, recall his
>  >words on "intentions" (On Practice/On Contradictions)--that the "truest
>  >criteria with which to judge intentions are *material results*.
>  >
>  >Unity & Struggle,
>  >Matthew Smith
>  >
>  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
>  >
>  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey holding a
>  >double-digit
>  >lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine points, there is
>  >ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote their conscience 
>and
>  >cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green Party for Governor. 
>Jerry
>  >is
>  >the only candidate putting forward the progressive agenda: a ban on
>  >"consent
>  >searches"' universal health care, adequate spending for public 
>education,
>  >jobs and housing, a living wage and independent and effective civilian
>  >review
>  >of police misconduct allegations.
>  >
>  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we can only
>  >conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race. 
>Therefore,
>  >vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
>  >
>  >
>  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  >poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >_________________________________________________________________
>  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
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>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2272
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-07 13:04:31
Subject:Fwd: MARK YOUR CALENDAR: Ras Baraka Roast/Dinner Dec. 14, 2001 in Harlem
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: AWORKSONGS@...
To: AWORKSONGS@...
Subject: MARK YOUR CALENDAR: Ras Baraka Roast/Dinner Dec. 14, 2001 in Harlem
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 08:11:10 EST

SAVE THE DATE - STASH YA' CASH!


for the

Ras Baraka
Roast & Toast
Fundraising Dinner

Friday, December 14, 2001 @ 7:00 pm
National Black Theater
2031 5th Avenue ~ Harlem, NY


Laughing Our Way to Victory!
All Jokes Allowed!

Dayum!! He's running for office again:
Councilman-At-Large in Newark, New Jersey
(where his family has lived for over 70 years!)

Let's make this the last time, for real :-)
Join us as good food, good drink, good music,
the wop, a poem or two, and jokes for days!


"cost-of-the-dinner-ticket-which-is-priced-to-help-us-raise-money-
so-that-we-can-do-posters-and-buttons-and-get-phones-and-stuff-like-that"
$100.00 (tickets available now; pledges and all donations welcomed!)


Join Maya Angelou ~ Amiri & Amina Baraka ~ Warren Beatty ~ Danny Glover
Lauryn Hill ~ Rev. Jesse Jackson ~ Rev. Al Sharpton ~ Sister Souljah
and others in supporting The Committee to Elect Ras Baraka
(partial list of current or previous endorsers and/or those who have made
financial contributions)

watch mail for your formal invitation and more details,
but call 718.756.8501, if you can’t wait


co-sponsored by The Hip Hop Summit Action Network
(founded by Russell Simmons; Min. Ben Chavis Muhammad, Executive Director)

visit www.rasbaraka2002.com early November where you'll be able to make
contributions over the Internet!



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2273
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-07 14:00:47
Subject:Ras Baraka in Harlem December 14, 2001
Message:

----Original Message Follows----
From: AWORKSONGS@...
To: AWORKSONGS@...
Subject: MARK YOUR CALENDAR: Ras Baraka Roast/Dinner Dec. 14, 2001 in
Harlem
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 08:11:10 EST

SAVE THE DATE - STASH YA' CASH!

for the

Ras Baraka
Roast & Toast
Fundraising Dinner

Friday, December 14, 2001 @ 7:00 pm
National Black Theater
2031 5th Avenue ~ Harlem, NY


Laughing Our Way to Victory!
All Jokes Allowed!

Dayum!! He's running for office again:
Councilman-At-Large in Newark, New Jersey
(where his family has lived for over 70 years!)

Let's make this the last time, for real :-)
Join us as good food, good drink, good music,
the wop, a poem or two, and jokes for days!


"cost-of-the-dinner-ticket-which-is-priced-to-help-us-raise-money-
so-that-we-can-do-posters-and-buttons-and-get-phones-and-stuff-like-that"

$100.00 (tickets available now; pledges and all donations welcomed!)


Join Maya Angelou ~ Amiri & Amina Baraka ~ Warren Beatty ~ Danny Glover 
Lauryn Hill ~ Rev. Jesse Jackson ~ Rev. Al Sharpton ~ Sister Souljah and 
others in supporting The Committee to Elect Ras Baraka
(partial list of current or previous endorsers and/or those who have made 
financial contributions)

watch mail for your formal invitation and more details,
but call 718.756.8501, if you can�??t wait

co-sponsored by The Hip Hop Summit Action Network
(founded by Russell Simmons; Min. Ben Chavis Muhammad, Executive Director)

visit www.rasbaraka2002.com early November where you'll be able to make 
contributions over the Internet!


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2274
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-07 16:38:22
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] Fwd: Somebody Blew Up America by Amiri Baraka
Message:


> >> >   Subject: Amiri Baraka's Poem >> > >> >   Somebody Blew Up America 
> >> > >> >   By Amiri Baraka >> > >> >   They say its some terrorist, >> >  
>  some barbaric >> >   A Rab, in Afghanistan >> > >> >   It wasn't our 
>American terrorists >> >   It wasn't the Klan or the Skin heads >> >   Or 
>them that blows up nigger >> >   Churches, or reincarnates us on Death Row 
> >> > >> >   It wasn't Trent Lott >> >   Or David Duke or Giuliani >> >   
>Or Schundler, Helms retiring >> > >> >   It wasn't >> >   The gonorrhea in 
>costume >> >   The white sheet diseases >> >   That have murdered black 
>people >> >   Terrorized reason and sanity >> >   Most of humanity, as they 
>pleases >> > >> >   They say (who say?) >> >   Who do the saying >> >   Who 
>is them paying >> >   Who tell the lies >> >   Who in disguise >> >   Who 
>had the slaves >> >   Who got the bux out the Bucks >> > >> >   Who got fat 
>from plantations >> >   Who genocided Indians >> >   Tried to waste the 
>Black nation >> > >> >   Who live on Wall Street >> >   The first 
>plantation >> >   Who cut your nuts off >> >   Who rape your ma >> >   Who 
>lynched your pa >> > >> >   Who got the tar, who got the feathers >> >   
>Who had the match, who set the fires >> >   Who killed and hired >> >   Who 
>say they God & still be the Devil >> > >> >   Who the biggest only >> >   
>Who the most goodest >> >   Who do Jesus resemble >> > >> >   Who created 
>everything >> >   Who the smartest >> >   Who the greatest >> >   Who the 
>richest >> >   Who say you ugly and they the goodlookingest >> > >> >   Who 
>define art >> >   Who define science >> > >> >   Who made the bombs >> >   
>Who made the guns >> > >> >   Who bought the slaves, who sold them >> > >> 
> >   Who called you them names >> >   Who say Dahmer wasn't insane >> > >> 
> >   Who? Who? Who? >> > >> >   Who stole Puerto Rico >> >   Who stole the 
>Indies, the Philipines, >> >   Manhattan Australia & The Hebrides >> >   
>Who forced opium on the Chinese >> > >> >   Who own them buildings >> >   
>Who got the money >> >   Who think you funny >> >   Who locked you up >> >  
>  Who own the papers >> > >> >   Who owned the slave ship >> >   Who run 
>the army >> > >> >   Who the fake president >> >   Who the ruler >> >   Who 
>the banker >> > >> >   Who? Who? Who? >> > >> >   Who own the mine >> >   
>Who twist your mind >> >   Who got bread >> >   Who need peace >> >   Who 
>you think need war >> > >> >   Who own the oil >> >   Who do no toil >> >   
>Who own the soil >> >   Who is not a nigger >> >   Who is so great ain't 
>nobody bigger >> > >> >   Who own this city >> > >> >   Who own the air >> 
> >   Who own the water >> > >> >   Who own your crib >> >   Who rob and 
>steal and cheat and murder >> >   and make lies the truth >> >   Who call 
>you uncouth >> > >> >   Who live in the biggest house >> >   Who do the 
>biggest crime >> >   Who go on vacation anytime >> > >> >   Who killed the 
>most niggers >> >   Who killed the most Jews >> >   Who killed the most 
>Italians >> >   Who killed the most Irish >> >   Who killed the most 
>Africans >> >   Who killed the most Japanese >> >   Who killed the most 
>Latinos >> > >> >   Who? Who? Who? >> > >> >   Who own the ocean >> > >> >  
>  Who own the airplanes >> >   Who own the malls >> >   Who own television 
> >> >   Who own radio >> > >> >   Who own what ain't even known to be owned 
> >> >   Who own the owners that ain't the real owners >> > >> >   Who own 
>the suburbs >> >   Who suck the cities >> >   Who make the laws >> > >> >   
>Who made Bush president >> >   Who believe the confederate flag need to be 
>flying >> >   Who talk about democracy and be lying >> > >> >   Who the 
>Beast in Revelations >> >   Who 666 >> >   Who know who decide Jesus get 
>crucified >> > >> >   Who the Devil on the real side >> >   Who got rich 
>from Armenian genocide >> > >> >   Who the biggest terrorist >> >   Who 
>change the bible >> >   Who killed the most people >> >   Who do the most 
>evil >> >   Who don't worry about survival >> > >> >   Who have the 
>colonies >> >   Who stole the most land >> >   Who rule the world >> >   
>Who say they good but only do evil >> >   Who the biggest executioner >> > 
> >> >   Who? Who? Who? >> > >> >   Who own the oil >> >   Who want more oil 
> >> >   Who told you what you think that later you find out a lie >> > >> > 
>   Who? Who? Who? >> > >> >   Who found Bin Laden, maybe they Satan >> >   
>Who pay the CIA, >> >   Who knew the bomb was gonna blow >> >   Who know 
>why the terrorists Learned to fly in Florida, San Diego >> > >> >   Who 
>know why Five Israelis was filming the explosion >> >   And cracking they 
>sides at the notion >> > >> >   Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't 
>goin' nowhere >> > >> >   Who make the credit cards >> >   Who get the 
>biggest tax cut >> >   Who walked out of the Conference Against Racism >> > 
>   Who killed Malcolm, Kennedy & his Brother >> >   Who killed Dr King, >> 
> >   Who would want such a thing? >> >   Are they linked to the murder of 
>Lincoln? >> > >> >   Who invaded Grenada >> >   Who made money from 
>apartheid >> >   Who keep the Irish a colony >> >   Who overthrow Chile and 
>Nicaragua later >> > >> >   Who killed David Sibeko, Chris Hani, >> >   the 
>same ones who killed Biko, Cabral, >> >   Neruda, Allende, Che Guevara, 
>Sandino, >> > >> >   Who killed Kabila, the ones who wasted Lumumba, 
>Mondlane, >> >   Betty Shabazz, Princess Margaret, Ralph Featherstone, >> > 
>   Little Bobby >> > >> >   Who locked up Mandela, Dhoruba, Geronimo, >> >  
>  Assata, Mumia, Garvey, Dashiell Hammett, Alphaeus Hutton >> > >> >   Who 
>killed Huey Newton, Fred Hampton, >> >   Medgar Evers, Mikey Smith, Walter 
>Rodney, >> >   Was it the ones who tried to poison Fidel >> >   Who tried 
>to keep the Vietnamese Oppressed >> > >> >   Who put a price on Lenin's 
>head >> > >> >   Who put the Jews in ovens, >> >   and who helped them do 
>it >> >   Who said "America First" >> >   and ok'd the yellow stars >> > >> 
> >   Who killed Rosa Luxembourg, Liebneckt >> >   Who murdered the 
>Rosenbergs >> >   And all the good people iced, >> >   tortured, 
>assassinated, vanished >> > >> >   Who got rich from Algeria, Libya, Haiti, 
> >> >   Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Kuwait, Lebanon, >> >   Syria, Egypt, Jordan, 
>Palestine, >> > >> >   Who cut off peoples hands in the Congo >> >   Who 
>invented Aids >> >   Who put the germs In the Indians' blankets >> >   Who 
>thought up "The Trail of Tears" >> > >> >   Who blew up the Maine >> >   & 
>started the Spanish American War >> >   Who got Sharon back in Power >> >   
>Who backed Batista, Hitler, Bilbo, Chiang kai Chek >> > >> >   Who decided 
>Affirmative Action had to go >> >   Reconstruction, The New Deal, >> >   
>The New Frontier, The Great Society, >> > >> >   Who do Tom Ass Clarence 
>Work for >> >   Who doo doo come out the Colon's mouth >> >   Who know what 
>kind of Skeeza is a Condoleeza >> >   Who pay Connelly to be a wooden negro 
> >> >   Who give Genius Awards to Homo Locus Subsidere >> > >> >   Who 
>overthrew Nkrumah, Bishop, >> >   Who poison Robeson, >> >   who try to put 
>DuBois in Jail >> >   Who frame Rap Jamil al Amin, Who frame the 
>Rosenbergs, >> >   Garvey, The Scottsboro Boys, The Hollywood Ten >> > >> > 
>   Who set the Reichstag Fire >> > >> >   Who knew the World Trade Center 
>was gonna get bombed >> >   Who told 4000 Israeli workers at the Twin 
>Towers >> >   To stay home that day >> >   Why did Sharon stay away? >> > 
> >> >   Who? Who? Who? >> > >> >   Explosion of Owl the newspaper say >> >  
>  The devil face cd be seen >> > >> >   Who make money from war >> >   Who 
>make dough from fear and lies >> >   Who want the world like it is >> >   
>Who want the world to be ruled by imperialism and national >> >   
>oppression and terror violence, and hunger and poverty. >> > >> >   Who is 
>the ruler of Hell? >> >   Who is the most powerful >> > >> >   Who you know 
>ever Seen God? >> > >> >   But everybody seen The Devil >> > >> >   Like an 
>Owl exploding >> >   In your life in your brain in your self >> >   Like an 
>Owl who know the devil >> >   All night, all day if you listen, Like an Owl 
> >> >   Exploding in fire. We hear the questions rise >> >   In terrible 
>flame like the whistle of a crazy dog >> > >> >   Like the acid vomit of 
>the fire of Hell >> >   Who and Who and WHO who who >> >   Whoooo and 
>Whooooooooooooooooooooo! >> >


_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2275
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-07 16:38:26
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] Fwd: Somebody Blew Up America by Amiri Baraka
Message:


> >> >   Subject: Amiri Baraka's Poem >> > >> >   Somebody Blew Up America 
> >> > >> >   By Amiri Baraka >> > >> >   They say its some terrorist, >> >  
>  some barbaric >> >   A Rab, in Afghanistan >> > >> >   It wasn't our 
>American terrorists >> >   It wasn't the Klan or the Skin heads >> >   Or 
>them that blows up nigger >> >   Churches, or reincarnates us on Death Row 
> >> > >> >   It wasn't Trent Lott >> >   Or David Duke or Giuliani >> >   
>Or Schundler, Helms retiring >> > >> >   It wasn't >> >   The gonorrhea in 
>costume >> >   The white sheet diseases >> >   That have murdered black 
>people >> >   Terrorized reason and sanity >> >   Most of humanity, as they 
>pleases >> > >> >   They say (who say?) >> >   Who do the saying >> >   Who 
>is them paying >> >   Who tell the lies >> >   Who in disguise >> >   Who 
>had the slaves >> >   Who got the bux out the Bucks >> > >> >   Who got fat 
>from plantations >> >   Who genocided Indians >> >   Tried to waste the 
>Black nation >> > >> >   Who live on Wall Street >> >   The first 
>plantation >> >   Who cut your nuts off >> >   Who rape your ma >> >   Who 
>lynched your pa >> > >> >   Who got the tar, who got the feathers >> >   
>Who had the match, who set the fires >> >   Who killed and hired >> >   Who 
>say they God & still be the Devil >> > >> >   Who the biggest only >> >   
>Who the most goodest >> >   Who do Jesus resemble >> > >> >   Who created 
>everything >> >   Who the smartest >> >   Who the greatest >> >   Who the 
>richest >> >   Who say you ugly and they the goodlookingest >> > >> >   Who 
>define art >> >   Who define science >> > >> >   Who made the bombs >> >   
>Who made the guns >> > >> >   Who bought the slaves, who sold them >> > >> 
> >   Who called you them names >> >   Who say Dahmer wasn't insane >> > >> 
> >   Who? Who? Who? >> > >> >   Who stole Puerto Rico >> >   Who stole the 
>Indies, the Philipines, >> >   Manhattan Australia & The Hebrides >> >   
>Who forced opium on the Chinese >> > >> >   Who own them buildings >> >   
>Who got the money >> >   Who think you funny >> >   Who locked you up >> >  
>  Who own the papers >> > >> >   Who owned the slave ship >> >   Who run 
>the army >> > >> >   Who the fake president >> >   Who the ruler >> >   Who 
>the banker >> > >> >   Who? Who? Who? >> > >> >   Who own the mine >> >   
>Who twist your mind >> >   Who got bread >> >   Who need peace >> >   Who 
>you think need war >> > >> >   Who own the oil >> >   Who do no toil >> >   
>Who own the soil >> >   Who is not a nigger >> >   Who is so great ain't 
>nobody bigger >> > >> >   Who own this city >> > >> >   Who own the air >> 
> >   Who own the water >> > >> >   Who own your crib >> >   Who rob and 
>steal and cheat and murder >> >   and make lies the truth >> >   Who call 
>you uncouth >> > >> >   Who live in the biggest house >> >   Who do the 
>biggest crime >> >   Who go on vacation anytime >> > >> >   Who killed the 
>most niggers >> >   Who killed the most Jews >> >   Who killed the most 
>Italians >> >   Who killed the most Irish >> >   Who killed the most 
>Africans >> >   Who killed the most Japanese >> >   Who killed the most 
>Latinos >> > >> >   Who? Who? Who? >> > >> >   Who own the ocean >> > >> >  
>  Who own the airplanes >> >   Who own the malls >> >   Who own television 
> >> >   Who own radio >> > >> >   Who own what ain't even known to be owned 
> >> >   Who own the owners that ain't the real owners >> > >> >   Who own 
>the suburbs >> >   Who suck the cities >> >   Who make the laws >> > >> >   
>Who made Bush president >> >   Who believe the confederate flag need to be 
>flying >> >   Who talk about democracy and be lying >> > >> >   Who the 
>Beast in Revelations >> >   Who 666 >> >   Who know who decide Jesus get 
>crucified >> > >> >   Who the Devil on the real side >> >   Who got rich 
>from Armenian genocide >> > >> >   Who the biggest terrorist >> >   Who 
>change the bible >> >   Who killed the most people >> >   Who do the most 
>evil >> >   Who don't worry about survival >> > >> >   Who have the 
>colonies >> >   Who stole the most land >> >   Who rule the world >> >   
>Who say they good but only do evil >> >   Who the biggest executioner >> > 
> >> >   Who? Who? Who? >> > >> >   Who own the oil >> >   Who want more oil 
> >> >   Who told you what you think that later you find out a lie >> > >> > 
>   Who? Who? Who? >> > >> >   Who found Bin Laden, maybe they Satan >> >   
>Who pay the CIA, >> >   Who knew the bomb was gonna blow >> >   Who know 
>why the terrorists Learned to fly in Florida, San Diego >> > >> >   Who 
>know why Five Israelis was filming the explosion >> >   And cracking they 
>sides at the notion >> > >> >   Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't 
>goin' nowhere >> > >> >   Who make the credit cards >> >   Who get the 
>biggest tax cut >> >   Who walked out of the Conference Against Racism >> > 
>   Who killed Malcolm, Kennedy & his Brother >> >   Who killed Dr King, >> 
> >   Who would want such a thing? >> >   Are they linked to the murder of 
>Lincoln? >> > >> >   Who invaded Grenada >> >   Who made money from 
>apartheid >> >   Who keep the Irish a colony >> >   Who overthrow Chile and 
>Nicaragua later >> > >> >   Who killed David Sibeko, Chris Hani, >> >   the 
>same ones who killed Biko, Cabral, >> >   Neruda, Allende, Che Guevara, 
>Sandino, >> > >> >   Who killed Kabila, the ones who wasted Lumumba, 
>Mondlane, >> >   Betty Shabazz, Princess Margaret, Ralph Featherstone, >> > 
>   Little Bobby >> > >> >   Who locked up Mandela, Dhoruba, Geronimo, >> >  
>  Assata, Mumia, Garvey, Dashiell Hammett, Alphaeus Hutton >> > >> >   Who 
>killed Huey Newton, Fred Hampton, >> >   Medgar Evers, Mikey Smith, Walter 
>Rodney, >> >   Was it the ones who tried to poison Fidel >> >   Who tried 
>to keep the Vietnamese Oppressed >> > >> >   Who put a price on Lenin's 
>head >> > >> >   Who put the Jews in ovens, >> >   and who helped them do 
>it >> >   Who said "America First" >> >   and ok'd the yellow stars >> > >> 
> >   Who killed Rosa Luxembourg, Liebneckt >> >   Who murdered the 
>Rosenbergs >> >   And all the good people iced, >> >   tortured, 
>assassinated, vanished >> > >> >   Who got rich from Algeria, Libya, Haiti, 
> >> >   Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Kuwait, Lebanon, >> >   Syria, Egypt, Jordan, 
>Palestine, >> > >> >   Who cut off peoples hands in the Congo >> >   Who 
>invented Aids >> >   Who put the germs In the Indians' blankets >> >   Who 
>thought up "The Trail of Tears" >> > >> >   Who blew up the Maine >> >   & 
>started the Spanish American War >> >   Who got Sharon back in Power >> >   
>Who backed Batista, Hitler, Bilbo, Chiang kai Chek >> > >> >   Who decided 
>Affirmative Action had to go >> >   Reconstruction, The New Deal, >> >   
>The New Frontier, The Great Society, >> > >> >   Who do Tom Ass Clarence 
>Work for >> >   Who doo doo come out the Colon's mouth >> >   Who know what 
>kind of Skeeza is a Condoleeza >> >   Who pay Connelly to be a wooden negro 
> >> >   Who give Genius Awards to Homo Locus Subsidere >> > >> >   Who 
>overthrew Nkrumah, Bishop, >> >   Who poison Robeson, >> >   who try to put 
>DuBois in Jail >> >   Who frame Rap Jamil al Amin, Who frame the 
>Rosenbergs, >> >   Garvey, The Scottsboro Boys, The Hollywood Ten >> > >> > 
>   Who set the Reichstag Fire >> > >> >   Who knew the World Trade Center 
>was gonna get bombed >> >   Who told 4000 Israeli workers at the Twin 
>Towers >> >   To stay home that day >> >   Why did Sharon stay away? >> > 
> >> >   Who? Who? Who? >> > >> >   Explosion of Owl the newspaper say >> >  
>  The devil face cd be seen >> > >> >   Who make money from war >> >   Who 
>make dough from fear and lies >> >   Who want the world like it is >> >   
>Who want the world to be ruled by imperialism and national >> >   
>oppression and terror violence, and hunger and poverty. >> > >> >   Who is 
>the ruler of Hell? >> >   Who is the most powerful >> > >> >   Who you know 
>ever Seen God? >> > >> >   But everybody seen The Devil >> > >> >   Like an 
>Owl exploding >> >   In your life in your brain in your self >> >   Like an 
>Owl who know the devil >> >   All night, all day if you listen, Like an Owl 
> >> >   Exploding in fire. We hear the questions rise >> >   In terrible 
>flame like the whistle of a crazy dog >> > >> >   Like the acid vomit of 
>the fire of Hell >> >   Who and Who and WHO who who >> >   Whoooo and 
>Whooooooooooooooooooooo! >> >


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

  ----------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2276
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-07 20:34:16
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every 
organization has competing ideologies.

I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an out.  
That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--

Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?

Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, 
for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)

you lost me...MS




----Original Message Follows----
From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 02:05:15 +0000

u&s line: greens are right.

yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party w/ a
"different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the
non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".

("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)

yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for their
"facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...

profound.

peoples' war on the right.
combat liberalism.


 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:32:24
 >
 >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since an honest 
(&
 >I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the Nader'00
 >farce
 >would have to include an internal transformation of the party & bring them
 >into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for revolutionary
 >democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them a better
 >alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic Machine in 
NB
 >where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, it would be
 >necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as it would be 
a
 >different party with a different leading ideology. It would still not be a
 >replacement for the *mass* independant party that must & will eventually
 >emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the Greens think they are 
now
 >that)
 >
 >
 >
 >----Original Message Follows----
 >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:00:53 +0000
 >
 >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in facilitating
 >Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we humanity is now faced
 >with
 >is put foward by the Green Party, this is one progressive that will never
 >vote Green for "higher office" for lack of trust, to start."   -ms
 >
 >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for reactionary
 >greenback$, "progressive"?
 >
 >u&s position is: greens are right.
 >
 >peoples' war on the right.
 >combat liberalism.
 >
 >cs
 >
 >
 >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, can_bush@...,
 >  >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >CC: bbz@..., blombard@...,
 >  >cjangel@..., jstanton@..., tabenigno@...,
 >  >tg347@..., behorne@..., khabirah@...,
 >  >1blackmale@..., E_MacBlain@..., 
Ceettadili@...,
 >  >AMAlston1@..., poetas@..., locicero@...,
 >  >sztamke@..., krisbas@..., kvt@...,
 >  >csevans@..., daverapp@..., 
kb2zuz@...,
 >  >MidsummerVixen@..., DVG716@..., aquataffy4@...,
 >  >morguebabe77@..., bgigas@..., Jordel7@...,
 >  >Skyblue122@..., elizabethia@..., atupahache@...,
 >  >Eman101@..., Amirib@..., HRose16342@...,
 >iacenter@...,
 >  >Mkouyate@..., pjustice2000@...,
 >PrimeMinister901@...,
 >  >TooTallLa@..., Coolretta@..., MNorales@...,
 >  >Meratj@..., Voyageur1234@..., blackjack76@...,
 >  >TheStudentActionCommittee@egroups.c
 >  >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 02:36:30
 >  >
 >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
 >  >
 >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest assesment of the
 >role
 >  >of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous
 >  >results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green
 >  >Party,
 >  >this is one progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office"
 >for
 >  >lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly insisted 
there
 >  >was
 >  >no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, & with Nader
 >  >campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where Nader
 >carried
 >  >92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election (a gross
 >  >violation
 >  >of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce Afrin's less-slick
 >echo
 >  >of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely spoon-fed only
 >  >defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" rather than real
 >  >substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces (including
 >Nader
 >  >himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the right-wing Bush 
family
 >  >oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring leading us to economic
 >  >disaster
 >  >and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been warning the Greens, et al.
 >about
 >  >this scenario since being brow-beat for suggesting Bradley was a better
 >  >dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for the intentions of
 >many
 >  >Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party hasn't yet figured it
 >out,
 >&
 >  >my vote will reflect this. & for those who like to quote Mao, recall 
his
 >  >words on "intentions" (On Practice/On Contradictions)--that the "truest
 >  >criteria with which to judge intentions are *material results*.
 >  >
 >  >Unity & Struggle,
 >  >Matthew Smith
 >  >
 >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
 >  >
 >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey holding a
 >  >double-digit
 >  >lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine points, there is
 >  >ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote their conscience
 >and
 >  >cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green Party for Governor.
 >Jerry
 >  >is
 >  >the only candidate putting forward the progressive agenda: a ban on
 >  >"consent
 >  >searches"' universal health care, adequate spending for public
 >education,
 >  >jobs and housing, a living wage and independent and effective civilian
 >  >review
 >  >of police misconduct allegations.
 >  >
 >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we can only
 >  >conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race.
 >Therefore,
 >  >vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 >  >poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >_________________________________________________________________
 >  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >  >
 >
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________
 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >
 >
 >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >
 >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >
 >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________
 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2277
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-07 22:55:29
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

yr conciliatory line is to reconcile w/ greens on basis that they merely 
admit a particular 'mistake', which will supposedly 'transform' them into an 
ally in the revolutionary democratic united front, thereby earning yr 
endorsement of 'vote' & 'trust'. (in nwk, you shd push this. dont be 
encouraging these reactionaries in nb)

greens enabled bush. as did republicans.

u&s' line is: greens are right.

yr argument is w/ u&s.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 01:34:16
>
>My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every
>organization has competing ideologies.
>
>I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an out.
>That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--
>
>Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?
>
>Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans 
>also,
>for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)
>
>you lost me...MS
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 02:05:15 +0000
>
>u&s line: greens are right.
>
>yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party w/ 
>a
>"different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the
>non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".
>
>("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)
>
>yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for their
>"facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...
>
>profound.
>
>peoples' war on the right.
>combat liberalism.
>
>
>  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:32:24
>  >
>  >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since an honest
>(&
>  >I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the Nader'00
>  >farce
>  >would have to include an internal transformation of the party & bring 
>them
>  >into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for revolutionary
>  >democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them a better
>  >alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic Machine in
>NB
>  >where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, it would be
>  >necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as it would 
>be
>a
>  >different party with a different leading ideology. It would still not be 
>a
>  >replacement for the *mass* independant party that must & will eventually
>  >emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the Greens think they are
>now
>  >that)
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:00:53 +0000
>  >
>  >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in 
>facilitating
>  >Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we humanity is now faced
>  >with
>  >is put foward by the Green Party, this is one progressive that will 
>never
>  >vote Green for "higher office" for lack of trust, to start."   -ms
>  >
>  >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for reactionary
>  >greenback$, "progressive"?
>  >
>  >u&s position is: greens are right.
>  >
>  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >combat liberalism.
>  >
>  >cs
>  >
>  >
>  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, can_bush@...,
>  >  >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >CC: bbz@..., blombard@...,
>  >  >cjangel@..., jstanton@..., tabenigno@...,
>  >  >tg347@..., behorne@..., khabirah@...,
>  >  >1blackmale@..., E_MacBlain@...,
>Ceettadili@...,
>  >  >AMAlston1@..., poetas@..., 
>locicero@...,
>  >  >sztamke@..., krisbas@..., kvt@...,
>  >  >csevans@..., daverapp@...,
>kb2zuz@...,
>  >  >MidsummerVixen@..., DVG716@..., aquataffy4@...,
>  >  >morguebabe77@..., bgigas@..., Jordel7@...,
>  >  >Skyblue122@..., elizabethia@..., atupahache@...,
>  >  >Eman101@..., Amirib@..., HRose16342@...,
>  >iacenter@...,
>  >  >Mkouyate@..., pjustice2000@...,
>  >PrimeMinister901@...,
>  >  >TooTallLa@..., Coolretta@..., MNorales@...,
>  >  >Meratj@..., Voyageur1234@..., blackjack76@...,
>  >  >TheStudentActionCommittee@egroups.c
>  >  >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 02:36:30
>  >  >
>  >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
>  >  >
>  >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest assesment of the
>  >role
>  >  >of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous
>  >  >results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green
>  >  >Party,
>  >  >this is one progressive that will never vote Green for "higher 
>office"
>  >for
>  >  >lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly insisted
>there
>  >  >was
>  >  >no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, & with Nader
>  >  >campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where Nader
>  >carried
>  >  >92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election (a gross
>  >  >violation
>  >  >of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce Afrin's less-slick
>  >echo
>  >  >of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely spoon-fed 
>only
>  >  >defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" rather than real
>  >  >substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces (including
>  >Nader
>  >  >himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the right-wing Bush
>family
>  >  >oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring leading us to economic
>  >  >disaster
>  >  >and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been warning the Greens, et al.
>  >about
>  >  >this scenario since being brow-beat for suggesting Bradley was a 
>better
>  >  >dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for the intentions of
>  >many
>  >  >Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party hasn't yet figured it
>  >out,
>  >&
>  >  >my vote will reflect this. & for those who like to quote Mao, recall
>his
>  >  >words on "intentions" (On Practice/On Contradictions)--that the 
>"truest
>  >  >criteria with which to judge intentions are *material results*.
>  >  >
>  >  >Unity & Struggle,
>  >  >Matthew Smith
>  >  >
>  >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
>  >  >
>  >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey holding a
>  >  >double-digit
>  >  >lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine points, there 
>is
>  >  >ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote their 
>conscience
>  >and
>  >  >cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green Party for Governor.
>  >Jerry
>  >  >is
>  >  >the only candidate putting forward the progressive agenda: a ban on
>  >  >"consent
>  >  >searches"' universal health care, adequate spending for public
>  >education,
>  >  >jobs and housing, a living wage and independent and effective 
>civilian
>  >  >review
>  >  >of police misconduct allegations.
>  >  >
>  >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we can only
>  >  >conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race.
>  >Therefore,
>  >  >vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  >  >poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >_________________________________________________________________
>  >  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>  >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  >  >
>  >
>  >
>  >_________________________________________________________________
>  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  >
>  >
>  >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>  >
>  >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>  >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>  >
>  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >_________________________________________________________________
>  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2278
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-08 14:32:58
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

The Greens should become an ally in the UF.

Are you saying that your line is "People's war against the Green Party?"




----Original Message Follows----
From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 03:55:29 +0000

yr conciliatory line is to reconcile w/ greens on basis that they merely
admit a particular 'mistake', which will supposedly 'transform' them into an
ally in the revolutionary democratic united front, thereby earning yr
endorsement of 'vote' & 'trust'. (in nwk, you shd push this. dont be
encouraging these reactionaries in nb)

greens enabled bush. as did republicans.

u&s' line is: greens are right.

yr argument is w/ u&s.


 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 01:34:16
 >
 >My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every
 >organization has competing ideologies.
 >
 >I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an out.
 >That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--
 >
 >Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?
 >
 >Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans
 >also,
 >for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)
 >
 >you lost me...MS
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >----Original Message Follows----
 >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 02:05:15 +0000
 >
 >u&s line: greens are right.
 >
 >yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party w/
 >a
 >"different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the
 >non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".
 >
 >("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)
 >
 >yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for their
 >"facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...
 >
 >profound.
 >
 >peoples' war on the right.
 >combat liberalism.
 >
 >
 >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:32:24
 >  >
 >  >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since an 
honest
 >(&
 >  >I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the Nader'00
 >  >farce
 >  >would have to include an internal transformation of the party & bring
 >them
 >  >into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for revolutionary
 >  >democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them a better
 >  >alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic Machine 
in
 >NB
 >  >where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, it would be
 >  >necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as it would
 >be
 >a
 >  >different party with a different leading ideology. It would still not 
be
 >a
 >  >replacement for the *mass* independant party that must & will 
eventually
 >  >emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the Greens think they are
 >now
 >  >that)
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
 >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:00:53 +0000
 >  >
 >  >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in
 >facilitating
 >  >Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we humanity is now faced
 >  >with
 >  >is put foward by the Green Party, this is one progressive that will
 >never
 >  >vote Green for "higher office" for lack of trust, to start."   -ms
 >  >
 >  >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for reactionary
 >  >greenback$, "progressive"?
 >  >
 >  >u&s position is: greens are right.
 >  >
 >  >peoples' war on the right.
 >  >combat liberalism.
 >  >
 >  >cs
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >  >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >  >To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, can_bush@...,
 >  >  >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >  >CC: bbz@..., blombard@...,
 >  >  >cjangel@..., jstanton@..., tabenigno@...,
 >  >  >tg347@..., behorne@..., khabirah@...,
 >  >  >1blackmale@..., E_MacBlain@...,
 >Ceettadili@...,
 >  >  >AMAlston1@..., poetas@...,
 >locicero@...,
 >  >  >sztamke@..., krisbas@..., kvt@...,
 >  >  >csevans@..., daverapp@...,
 >kb2zuz@...,
 >  >  >MidsummerVixen@..., DVG716@..., aquataffy4@...,
 >  >  >morguebabe77@..., bgigas@..., Jordel7@...,
 >  >  >Skyblue122@..., elizabethia@..., atupahache@...,
 >  >  >Eman101@..., Amirib@..., HRose16342@...,
 >  >iacenter@...,
 >  >  >Mkouyate@..., pjustice2000@...,
 >  >PrimeMinister901@...,
 >  >  >TooTallLa@..., Coolretta@..., MNorales@...,
 >  >  >Meratj@..., Voyageur1234@..., blackjack76@...,
 >  >  >TheStudentActionCommittee@egroups.c
 >  >  >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 02:36:30
 >  >  >
 >  >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
 >  >  >
 >  >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest assesment of 
the
 >  >role
 >  >  >of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the 
disasterous
 >  >  >results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by the 
Green
 >  >  >Party,
 >  >  >this is one progressive that will never vote Green for "higher
 >office"
 >  >for
 >  >  >lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly insisted
 >there
 >  >  >was
 >  >  >no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, & with Nader
 >  >  >campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where Nader
 >  >carried
 >  >  >92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election (a gross
 >  >  >violation
 >  >  >of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce Afrin's 
less-slick
 >  >echo
 >  >  >of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely spoon-fed
 >only
 >  >  >defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" rather than 
real
 >  >  >substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces (including
 >  >Nader
 >  >  >himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the right-wing Bush
 >family
 >  >  >oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring leading us to economic
 >  >  >disaster
 >  >  >and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been warning the Greens, et al.
 >  >about
 >  >  >this scenario since being brow-beat for suggesting Bradley was a
 >better
 >  >  >dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for the intentions 
of
 >  >many
 >  >  >Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party hasn't yet figured it
 >  >out,
 >  >&
 >  >  >my vote will reflect this. & for those who like to quote Mao, recall
 >his
 >  >  >words on "intentions" (On Practice/On Contradictions)--that the
 >"truest
 >  >  >criteria with which to judge intentions are *material results*.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >Unity & Struggle,
 >  >  >Matthew Smith
 >  >  >
 >  >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
 >  >  >
 >  >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey holding a
 >  >  >double-digit
 >  >  >lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine points, there
 >is
 >  >  >ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote their
 >conscience
 >  >and
 >  >  >cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green Party for Governor.
 >  >Jerry
 >  >  >is
 >  >  >the only candidate putting forward the progressive agenda: a ban on
 >  >  >"consent
 >  >  >searches"' universal health care, adequate spending for public
 >  >education,
 >  >  >jobs and housing, a living wage and independent and effective
 >civilian
 >  >  >review
 >  >  >of police misconduct allegations.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we can 
only
 >  >  >conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race.
 >  >Therefore,
 >  >  >vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 >  >  >poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 >  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >_________________________________________________________________
 >  >  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 >  >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >  >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >_________________________________________________________________
 >  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >  >
 >  >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 >  >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >  >
 >  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >_________________________________________________________________
 >  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >  >
 >
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________
 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >
 >
 >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >
 >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >
 >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________
 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2279
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-08 20:19:52
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

'shd be' idealism is not the point.
everyone 'shd be'. but in reality there is class struggle.

u&s line is: greens are right.
tell me what is u&s' line re: the right?

peoples' war on the right.
combat liberalism.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 19:32:58
>
>The Greens should become an ally in the UF.
>
>Are you saying that your line is "People's war against the Green Party?"
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 03:55:29 +0000
>
>yr conciliatory line is to reconcile w/ greens on basis that they merely
>admit a particular 'mistake', which will supposedly 'transform' them into 
>an
>ally in the revolutionary democratic united front, thereby earning yr
>endorsement of 'vote' & 'trust'. (in nwk, you shd push this. dont be
>encouraging these reactionaries in nb)
>
>greens enabled bush. as did republicans.
>
>u&s' line is: greens are right.
>
>yr argument is w/ u&s.
>
>
>  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 01:34:16
>  >
>  >My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every
>  >organization has competing ideologies.
>  >
>  >I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an 
>out.
>  >That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--
>  >
>  >Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?
>  >
>  >Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans
>  >also,
>  >for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)
>  >
>  >you lost me...MS
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 02:05:15 +0000
>  >
>  >u&s line: greens are right.
>  >
>  >yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party 
>w/
>  >a
>  >"different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the
>  >non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".
>  >
>  >("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)
>  >
>  >yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for their
>  >"facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...
>  >
>  >profound.
>  >
>  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >combat liberalism.
>  >
>  >
>  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:32:24
>  >  >
>  >  >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since an
>honest
>  >(&
>  >  >I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the 
>Nader'00
>  >  >farce
>  >  >would have to include an internal transformation of the party & bring
>  >them
>  >  >into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for revolutionary
>  >  >democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them a better
>  >  >alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic Machine
>in
>  >NB
>  >  >where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, it would be
>  >  >necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as it 
>would
>  >be
>  >a
>  >  >different party with a different leading ideology. It would still not
>be
>  >a
>  >  >replacement for the *mass* independant party that must & will
>eventually
>  >  >emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the Greens think they 
>are
>  >now
>  >  >that)
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:00:53 +0000
>  >  >
>  >  >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in
>  >facilitating
>  >  >Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we humanity is now 
>faced
>  >  >with
>  >  >is put foward by the Green Party, this is one progressive that will
>  >never
>  >  >vote Green for "higher office" for lack of trust, to start."   -ms
>  >  >
>  >  >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for 
>reactionary
>  >  >greenback$, "progressive"?
>  >  >
>  >  >u&s position is: greens are right.
>  >  >
>  >  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >  >combat liberalism.
>  >  >
>  >  >cs
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >  >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >  >To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, can_bush@...,
>  >  >  >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >  >CC: bbz@..., blombard@...,
>  >  >  >cjangel@..., jstanton@..., tabenigno@...,
>  >  >  >tg347@..., behorne@..., khabirah@...,
>  >  >  >1blackmale@..., E_MacBlain@...,
>  >Ceettadili@...,
>  >  >  >AMAlston1@..., poetas@...,
>  >locicero@...,
>  >  >  >sztamke@..., krisbas@..., kvt@...,
>  >  >  >csevans@..., daverapp@...,
>  >kb2zuz@...,
>  >  >  >MidsummerVixen@..., DVG716@..., aquataffy4@...,
>  >  >  >morguebabe77@..., bgigas@..., Jordel7@...,
>  >  >  >Skyblue122@..., elizabethia@..., atupahache@...,
>  >  >  >Eman101@..., Amirib@..., HRose16342@...,
>  >  >iacenter@...,
>  >  >  >Mkouyate@..., pjustice2000@...,
>  >  >PrimeMinister901@...,
>  >  >  >TooTallLa@..., Coolretta@..., MNorales@...,
>  >  >  >Meratj@..., Voyageur1234@..., blackjack76@...,
>  >  >  >TheStudentActionCommittee@egroups.c
>  >  >  >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >  >  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 02:36:30
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest assesment of
>the
>  >  >role
>  >  >  >of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the
>disasterous
>  >  >  >results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by the
>Green
>  >  >  >Party,
>  >  >  >this is one progressive that will never vote Green for "higher
>  >office"
>  >  >for
>  >  >  >lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly insisted
>  >there
>  >  >  >was
>  >  >  >no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, & with Nader
>  >  >  >campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where 
>Nader
>  >  >carried
>  >  >  >92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election (a gross
>  >  >  >violation
>  >  >  >of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce Afrin's
>less-slick
>  >  >echo
>  >  >  >of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely spoon-fed
>  >only
>  >  >  >defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" rather than
>real
>  >  >  >substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces 
>(including
>  >  >Nader
>  >  >  >himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the right-wing Bush
>  >family
>  >  >  >oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring leading us to 
>economic
>  >  >  >disaster
>  >  >  >and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been warning the Greens, et 
>al.
>  >  >about
>  >  >  >this scenario since being brow-beat for suggesting Bradley was a
>  >better
>  >  >  >dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for the intentions
>of
>  >  >many
>  >  >  >Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party hasn't yet figured 
>it
>  >  >out,
>  >  >&
>  >  >  >my vote will reflect this. & for those who like to quote Mao, 
>recall
>  >his
>  >  >  >words on "intentions" (On Practice/On Contradictions)--that the
>  >"truest
>  >  >  >criteria with which to judge intentions are *material results*.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >Unity & Struggle,
>  >  >  >Matthew Smith
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >  >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey holding a
>  >  >  >double-digit
>  >  >  >lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine points, 
>there
>  >is
>  >  >  >ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote their
>  >conscience
>  >  >and
>  >  >  >cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green Party for 
>Governor.
>  >  >Jerry
>  >  >  >is
>  >  >  >the only candidate putting forward the progressive agenda: a ban 
>on
>  >  >  >"consent
>  >  >  >searches"' universal health care, adequate spending for public
>  >  >education,
>  >  >  >jobs and housing, a living wage and independent and effective
>  >civilian
>  >  >  >review
>  >  >  >of police misconduct allegations.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we can
>only
>  >  >  >conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race.
>  >  >Therefore,
>  >  >  >vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  >  >  >poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  >  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >_________________________________________________________________
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>  >  >
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>  >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2280
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-08 22:37:01
Subject:Saturday Political Prisoner Activities!!
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign urges all of our supporters to make it to 
these activities.  Please help us raise money for the New York City 
Delegation to the Cuba Conference in March.  Also, remember to come out for 
the Miami 5!!

FREE ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS!!

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
___________________________________________________________________________________________
TEAR DOWN THE WALLS
Benefit Party!!
CELEBRATING THE 22ND ANNIVERSARY
OF ASSATA'S LIBERATION!!!
� ������������������������������
SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 2001
9PM - UNTIL
@

THE RESISTANCE N' BROOLYN HOUSE
309 Park Place
between Vanderbilt & Underhill
(2/3 train to Grand Army Plaza or D train to Seventh Avenue)
Cover Charge: $5.00 � Food and beverages will be sold

All proceeds benefit Tear Down the Walls: An international
strategizing conference to gain release for U.S political prisoners
and POWS. For additional information call Malcolm X Grassroots
Movement @718.622.8292

______________________________________________________________________________________

FREE THE MIAMI FIVE!
Cuban Political Prisoners Unjustly Jailed in US Prison for Defending Cuba
from Miami-Based Right-Wing Terrorists
TEACH-IN on NOVEMBER 10th
Saturday @ 6 pm
St. Mary's Episcopal Church @ 521 W. 126th St.
Amsterdam & 126th, St. Mary's Pl, Take the A or D to 125th

Invited Speakers:
Rafael Anglada, legal advisor to the case and Puerto Rican political
prisoner advocate
Maggie Becker, partner of Antonio Guerrero
Cuban hip hop artists
Rep. from Cuban Mission
Luis Miranda, Casa de las Americas
Plus special video footage -- DIRECT FROM CUBA -- with the Cuban families
of the Five

Who are the Miami Five?
They are five Cubans, who were convicted in June 2001 in US federal court
for defending their homeland of Cuba, from terrorists in Miami. After their
arrest in September 1998 by the FBI they were placed in solitary
confinement for 17 months. After the trial they were put back into Security
Housing Units in total isolation, where they remain today, awaiting
sentencing. The five Cubans were convicted after a politically-charged
trial, in which the US government claimed that the five were engaged in
espionage against US military bases and threatening "national security."
But the Miami Five pointed out vigorously in their defense that they were
involved only in monitoring the actions of the Miami-based right-wing
terrorist groups. In fact, Cuba has shared information with the US
government about dangerous actions planned by the terrorist groups.

Suggested donation: $5 (no one turned away for lack of funds)
SPONSORED BY NEW YORK CITY FREE THE FIVE COMMITTEE
freethefivenyc@..., 212-633-6646, 212-926-5757



IFCO/Pastors for Peace
402 W 145th Street, New York City, NY 10031
212-926-5757; fax: 212-926-5842; email: ifco@...;
web: http://www.ifconews.org


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2281
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-09 12:52:42
Subject:Re: Greens for McGreevey
Message:



>From: Amirib@...
>To: can_bush@...
>Subject: Re: [RUGreens] Re: Greens for McGreevey
>Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 22:23:18 EST
>
>its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2282
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-10 00:10:07
Subject:Support Leonard Peltier
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is calling on all our supporters to take 
part in this new effort to reduce the sentence of Native American political 
prisoner Leonard Peltier.

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
www.ProLibertad.org
ProLibertad@...
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
________________________________________________________________________

>SUPPORT FREEDOM FOR LEONARD PELTIER!
>
>URGENT ACTION
>
>MOTION TO REDUCE PELTIER'S SENTENCE HAS BEEN FILED!
>CALL & FAX CONGRESS - URGE DOJ NOT TO OPPOSE MOTION
>
>Friends,
>
>Attorney Eric Seitz filed a motion last Friday, November 2, which seeks the
>reduction of Leonard Peltier's life sentences from consecutive to
>concurrent.� We believe a reduction would obligate the Parole Commission to
>grant Leonard Peltier's release.
>
>Please contact your Senators and Representative and request they urge the
>Department of Justice not to oppose the motion.� Your Senators and
>Representative can be contacted through the Capitol Switchboard #:
>202-224-3121.� If a D.C. office is closed, please call your local office.
>Below are talking points for phone calls as well as a sample letter which
>can be faxed.
>
>We encourage you to organize phone banks with weekly calls to your
>officials.� If the justice department decides the reduction in sentence is
>merited, the judge will likely grant the motion.� Thank you for your
>continued support!
>
>In Solidarity,
>LPDC
>
>
>
>TALKING POINTS:
>
>1.�� Thank you for taking my call during this difficult time.� I admire 
>your
>continued commitment to your constituents despite the difficult
>circumstances you are working under.� I am calling in regard to Leonard
>Peltier, the Native American activist who has been unjustly imprisoned for
>over 25 years.� Amnesty International considers Mr. Peltier to be a
>"political prisoner who should be immediately and unconditionally 
>released."
>Worldwide support for his release comes from countless human rights
>organizations and people of conscience, including, amongst others,
>Archbishop Desmond Tutu, the National Congress of American Indians, Rev.
>Jesse Jackson, and the U.N. High Commissioner on Human Rights.
>
>2.� Mr. Peltier was charged with the murders of two FBI agents who were
>killed in a shoot-out on the Pine Ridge Reservation in the midst of local
>political strife in which dozens of Native Americans were also killed.� Mr.
>Peltier was sentenced to two consecutive life sentences based on the
>contention that he personally shot the agents.
>
>3.� The case against Mr. Peltier was rife with FBI misconduct, including 
>the
>utilization of false testimony, coercion of witnesses, and concealment of
>critical evidence. In contrast, the killings of Native Americans during the
>same time were rarely investigated.
>
>4.� At trial, the FBI withheld a ballistic test reflecting Mr. Peltier's
>innocence and refuting the government's most critical evidence.� The
>discovery of the lab report, acquired through a FOIA lawsuit, prompted the
>US Attorney to admit, "we can't prove who shot those agents."� Yet, a new
>trial was denied based on a legal technicality by a judge who now supports
>Mr. Peltier's release.
>
>5.� Mr. Peltier's attorney, Eric Seitz, has just filed a motion seeking the
>reduction of Mr. Peltier's life sentences from consecutive to concurrent.
>The motion argues that the judge who originally sentenced Mr. Peltier was
>misled to believe Mr. Peltier shot the agents, and the sentences meted were
>therefore grossly disproportionate and unfair. We believe a reduction in
>sentence would obligate the Parole Commission to release Mr. Peltier.
>
>6.� Mr. Peltier is now 57 years old and his health is deteriorating.� From
>prison he has achieved a remarkable record of humanitarian achievements
>including annual Christmas drives for the children of Pine Ridge,
>contributions of his art to assist battered women's shelters and substance
>abuse programs, and the establishment of a Native American scholarship
>program.
>
>7.� The reduction of Mr. Peltier's sentence would not only bring a long
>overdue end to his term in prison, but would also bring closure to a symbol
>of injustice against all Native Americans. Please contact the Department of
>Justice and ask them not to oppose the motion.� (Case # C77-3003).
>
>
>
>The Honorable _____
>U.S. Senate
>Washington DC 20510
>
>The Honorable _____
>U.S. House of Representatives
>Washington DC 20515
>
>
>Dear Senator/Representative,
>
>Thank you for accepting my letter during this difficult time.� I admire and
>respect your continued commitment to your constituents despite the 
>difficult
>circumstances you are forced to work under.
>
>I am writing in regard to Leonard Peltier, the Native American activist who
>has been unjustly imprisoned for over 25 years.� Amnesty International
>considers Mr. Peltier to be a "political prisoner who should be immediately
>and unconditionally released."� His release is also supported by Archbishop
>Desmond Tutu, the National Congress of American Indians, Rev. Jesse 
>Jackson,
>and the U.N. High Commissioner on Human Rights amongst many others.
>
>Mr. Peltier was charged with the murders of two FBI agents who were killed
>in a shoot-out on the Pine Ridge Reservation in the midst of local 
>political
>strife in which dozens of Native Americans were also killed.� Mr. Peltier
>was sentenced to two consecutive life sentences based on the contention 
>that
>he personally shot the agents.
>However, the case against Mr. Peltier was rife with FBI misconduct,
>including the utilization of false testimony, coercion of witnesses, and
>concealment of critical evidence. In contrast, the killings of Native
>Americans during the same time were rarely investigated.
>
>At trial, the FBI withheld a ballistic test reflecting Mr. Peltier's
>innocence and refuting the government's most critical evidence.� The
>discovery of the lab report prompted the US Attorney to admit, "we can't
>prove who shot those agents."� Yet, a new trial was denied based on a legal
>technicality by a judge who now supports Mr. Peltier's release.
>
>Mr. Peltier's attorney, Eric Seitz, has just filed a motion seeking the
>reduction of Mr. Peltier's life sentences from consecutive to concurrent.
>The motion argues that the judge who originally sentenced Mr. Peltier was
>misled to believe Mr. Peltier shot the agents, and the sentences meted were
>therefore grossly disproportionate and unfair. We believe a reduction in
>sentence would obligate the Parole Commission to release Mr. Peltier.
>
>Mr. Peltier has already served over 25 years in prison.� He is now 57 years
>old and his health is deteriorating.� From prison he has achieved a
>remarkable record of humanitarian achievements including annual Christmas
>drives for the children of Pine Ridge, contributions of his art to assist
>battered women's shelters and substance abuse programs, and the
>establishment of a Native American scholarship program.
>
>Mr. Peltier's release would not only bring a long overdue end to his term 
>in
>prison, but would also bring closure to a symbol of injustice against all
>Native Americans. Please contact the Department of Justice and urge them 
>not
>to oppose the motion.� (Case # C77-3003).
>
>Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>
>
>Until Freedom Is Won!
>The New Peltier Justice Campaign
>
>Leonard Peltier Defense Committee
>PO Box 583
>Lawrence, KS 66044



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2283
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-10 07:57:34
Subject:Fwd: Coleman for Governor
Message:


From: Amirib@...
To: can_bush@...
Subject: Re: [RUGreens] Re: Greens for McGreevey
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 22:23:18 EST


its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism



>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 01:34:16
>
>My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every
>organization has competing ideologies.
>
>I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an out.
>That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--
>
>Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?
>
>Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans 
>also,
>for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)
>
>you lost me...MS
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 02:05:15 +0000
>
>u&s line: greens are right.
>
>yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party w/ 
>a
>"different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the
>non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".
>
>("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)
>
>yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for their
>"facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...
>
>profound.
>
>peoples' war on the right.
>combat liberalism.
>
>
>  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:32:24
>  >
>  >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since an honest
>(&
>  >I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the Nader'00
>  >farce
>  >would have to include an internal transformation of the party & bring 
>them
>  >into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for revolutionary
>  >democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them a better
>  >alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic Machine in
>NB
>  >where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, it would be
>  >necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as it would 
>be
>a
>  >different party with a different leading ideology. It would still not be 
>a
>  >replacement for the *mass* independant party that must & will eventually
>  >emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the Greens think they are
>now
>  >that)
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:00:53 +0000
>  >
>  >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in 
>facilitating
>  >Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we humanity is now faced
>  >with
>  >is put foward by the Green Party, this is one progressive that will 
>never
>  >vote Green for "higher office" for lack of trust, to start."   -ms
>  >
>  >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for reactionary
>  >greenback$, "progressive"?
>  >
>  >u&s position is: greens are right.
>  >
>  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >combat liberalism.
>  >
>  >cs
>  >
>  >
>  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, can_bush@...,
>  >  >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >  >CC: bbz@..., blombard@...,
>  >  >cjangel@..., jstanton@..., tabenigno@...,
>  >  >tg347@..., behorne@..., khabirah@...,
>  >  >1blackmale@..., E_MacBlain@...,
>Ceettadili@...,
>  >  >AMAlston1@..., poetas@..., 
>locicero@...,
>  >  >sztamke@..., krisbas@..., kvt@...,
>  >  >csevans@..., daverapp@...,
>kb2zuz@...,
>  >  >MidsummerVixen@..., DVG716@..., aquataffy4@...,
>  >  >morguebabe77@..., bgigas@..., Jordel7@...,
>  >  >Skyblue122@..., elizabethia@..., atupahache@...,
>  >  >Eman101@..., Amirib@..., HRose16342@...,
>  >iacenter@...,
>  >  >Mkouyate@..., pjustice2000@...,
>  >PrimeMinister901@...,
>  >  >TooTallLa@..., Coolretta@..., MNorales@...,
>  >  >Meratj@..., Voyageur1234@..., blackjack76@...,
>  >  >TheStudentActionCommittee@egroups.c
>  >  >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 02:36:30
>  >  >
>  >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
>  >  >
>  >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest assesment of the
>  >role
>  >  >of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous
>  >  >results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green
>  >  >Party,
>  >  >this is one progressive that will never vote Green for "higher 
>office"
>  >for
>  >  >lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly insisted
>there
>  >  >was
>  >  >no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, & with Nader
>  >  >campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where Nader
>  >carried
>  >  >92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election (a gross
>  >  >violation
>  >  >of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce Afrin's less-slick
>  >echo
>  >  >of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely spoon-fed 
>only
>  >  >defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" rather than real
>  >  >substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces (including
>  >Nader
>  >  >himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the right-wing Bush
>family
>  >  >oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring leading us to economic
>  >  >disaster
>  >  >and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been warning the Greens, et al.
>  >about
>  >  >this scenario since being brow-beat for suggesting Bradley was a 
>better
>  >  >dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for the intentions of
>  >many
>  >  >Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party hasn't yet figured it
>  >out,
>  >&
>  >  >my vote will reflect this. & for those who like to quote Mao, recall
>his
>  >  >words on "intentions" (On Practice/On Contradictions)--that the 
>"truest
>  >  >criteria with which to judge intentions are *material results*.
>  >  >
>  >  >Unity & Struggle,
>  >  >Matthew Smith
>  >  >
>  >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
>  >  >
>  >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey holding a
>  >  >double-digit
>  >  >lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine points, there 
>is
>  >  >ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote their 
>conscience
>  >and
>  >  >cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green Party for Governor.
>  >Jerry
>  >  >is
>  >  >the only candidate putting forward the progressive agenda: a ban on
>  >  >"consent
>  >  >searches"' universal health care, adequate spending for public
>  >education,
>  >  >jobs and housing, a living wage and independent and effective 
>civilian
>  >  >review
>  >  >of police misconduct allegations.
>  >  >
>  >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we can only
>  >  >conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race.
>  >Therefore,
>  >  >vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  >  >poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >_________________________________________________________________
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>  >
>  >
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>  >
>  >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>  >
>  >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>  >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>  >
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>  >
>  >
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>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2284
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-11 02:19:39
Subject:Vieques Update from PR
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign sends this report out in solidarity with 
our brothers and sisters in Vieques.  Please email far and wide.

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
__________________________________________________________________________


Committee for the Rescue and Development of Vieques
PO Box 1424��� Vieques, Puerto Rico� 00765
Telefax (787) 741-1717���� E mail:� bieke@...

10 November, 2001

Report from the Vieques Peace and Justice Camp

In these times of war, it is our responsibility to struggle harder
for peace � peace in Vieques, peace in the US, peace in Afghanistan,
peace for the world.� In Vieques we have lived war during six
decades.� We now the horrible sounds of military aircraft, bombs
exploding, war ships cannon fire.� Our family members die from the
toxic components of the projectiles and other tools of war, more
frequently that in the rest of the Puerto Rico archipelago.� We don't
want any more war in Vieques � we don't want any more war, period!

The terrorist attacks of September are among the most barbarous acts
of our times.� We denounce those acts with all the energy of our
hearts.� But we cannot, even for an instant, succumb to the hawkish
rhetoric of the militarists of the US or the Taliban, who embrace
violence � from their different perspectives � as a method to resolve
conflict.� We scream out for peace, peace and more peace.

Peace for Vieques is synonymous with the cessation of all military
activity, the decontamination of our lands, water and air, the return
of our territory and sustainable, healthy development in a Free
Vieques.� In this direction we march.

In September, the Committee for the Rescue and Development of Vieques
(CRDV), called for all community organizations of the struggle to
begin a process of dialogues to unite efforts to become more
effective in this battle for justice and peace.� Saturday, 3
November, we held the third meeting of this series, with the
participation of the Vieques Women's Alliance, the Vieques Youth
United, the Catholic and Methodist Churches, the Horsemen for Peace,
Mount Carmelo, Luisa Guadalupe Camp, Millivy Camp, Peace and Justice
Camp, the Municipal Government, among others.

Seeking to improve the coordination of our work and share human and
material resources, the meetings have offered the leadership of our
struggle an important opportunity to converse face to face and to
share our hopes, concerns, ideas and constructive critiques, thereby
strengthening the base of this heroic battle for Vieques.� We now
prepare for a meeting with the solidarity organizations from the main
island of Puerto Rico, to extend this process of dialogue about the
struggle.

The evening of 3 November, we celebrated a special vigil at the Peace
and Justice Camp, with the presence of a Delegation from the Okinawa
Peace Network.� Yoshikazu Makish, (architect), Shinya Oshiro (singer)
y Higashioma Takuma (fisherman), through translation from Japanes to
English to Spanish, spoke and sang about the struggle of their people
and the solidarity between Vieques and Okinawa as a source of
spiritual and material strength in our work for peace.� They
presented visuals of the US military presence in Okinawa and the
struggle for demilitarization - many similarities to our situation.�
Sheila V�lez, from the Puerto Rican Bar Association, coordinated the
group's visit to Puerto Rico and the two days with us on Vieques.

As part of the efforts to internationalize the struggle, six
Viequenses traveled to Okinawa and other parts of Japan in the past
year and a half, and our Myrna Pag�n (CRDV), leaves son for that
country to participate in the Japan Peace Conference.� Ismael
Guadalupe (CRDV) leaves this week for California and later travels to
Cuba to bring the issue of Vieques to a series of international
forum.� At the end of November, Nilda Medina, also of the CRDV, will
travel to the Pacific island of Guam, together with Wanda Col�n, of
the Caribbean Project for Peace and Justice, where they will
represent the Vieques struggle at an international meeting of
indigenous women.

And we are preparing for the next civil disobedience actions and to
continue the wide range of strategies we have used over the years �
educational work in Vieques, dissemination of the Vieques case in the
rest of Puerto Rico, in the US and in other countries; lobbying in
Washington, the United Nations and in other international settings.�
On Thursday, 8 November, Jorge Col�n and Josie Pantojas, of the
Coordinating Group All Puerto Rico with Vieques, offered a workshop
on civil disobedience v�a the Program for Peace on Vieques that the
CRDV transmits on Channel 28, Vieques television.� People interested
in participating in the civil disobedience workshops can call the
Committee to check the calendar of activities.� Next week we hope to
have on the program the ex president of the Puerto Rico Bar
Association, Eduardo Villanueva and lawyer Sheila Velez, to speak on
possible implications for our struggle of recently approved anti
terrorist laws.�

On Saturday, 10 November, a delegation from the Technical and
Professional Group in Support of Sustainable Development on Vieques
(TPGV) will be in Vieques to meet with the Vice Mayor and other
members of the Mayor's working group.� The TPGV is made up of
environmental scientists, lawyers, economists, planners, architects,
sociologists, health experts, engineers, geographers, among others,
that have produced two volumes of guidelines about the development of
a Free Vieques.� The TPGV grew out of an initiative of the CRDV in
July, 1999, and in these two years has attracted the active
participation of the Vieques Women's Alliance and the Vieques Youth
United.� The principal goal of this process is to help guarantee that
a Vieques freed from the Navy is a Vieques for the Viequenses and
other Puerto Ricans � and not for speculators and developers.� A very
important aspect of the work of this Support Group is the discussion
and creation of mechanisms to promote genuine community participation
in land use planning for the lands already rescued from the Navy and
lands that will be rescued.

We work hard on the protest � but we also concentrate efforts on the
proposal of a future Vieques that will offer a dignified, just and
peaceful existence for our people.� We are enormously thankful for
these great efforts by all the members of this marvelous team that
includes many of Puerto Rico�s most highly respected experts in the
area of social and economic development.� Our struggle has been � and
continues to be � a model of peaceful struggle against militarism.�
We also hope to be a model of sustainable development in the context
of community self-determination.







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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2285
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-11 07:56:52
Subject:Re: Final US ultimate warning to Iraq
Message:

below is a my response to rachel lichtenfeld's position on the greens & the 
war. if bush lost would there be such a war?

rachel:
>Ok. Could someone please explain to 'certain people' why the democrats are 
>not going to stop imperialism?>

joe:
who said the democrats would stop imperialism, rachel? and why do you ask 
people to explain things for you?

>Furthermore, all this green-bashing is out of place and inappropriate.

the greens are an organization that strengthens the right not the people. 
see president bush & election 2000. all bashing deserved & necessary for 
their betrayal of the popular vote.

>The Greens have the right to run their candidates, as does any other third 
>party (including the peoples' campaign, hint-hint).

the greens can run their candidates, but they cannot claim to represent the 
people with these backwards campaigns that cannot be won. see candidate 
coleman - NJ election 2001, why would progressives want to help schundler... 
they don't! republicans and greens help the right wing move further right 
and both must be held accountable.

>To give in to the two-party system is in itself reactionary; the thing we 
>should be aiming for here is a variety of parties, not a sort of 
>dictatorial dicotemy.

in an election where only a democrat or republican will win, the green 
candidate strengthens the republicans campaign. who is giving in to the 2 
party system?


>To vote dem because the republican candidate is an evil fascist is one 
>thing; it is quite another to insist that there be no other candidates.

what is your analysis of george bush & bret schundler, rachel? who said 
there should be no other candidates? the greens cannot claim to be 
progressive when their activity supports bush!


>Saying that the greens cause republicans to win is a benighted statement at 
>best.

why is that, rachel? the greens recognize that they cause republicans to 
win, why would you deny it & attack those that point it out.

>
>As a side note, the peace movement is a perfect example of how the left 
>factionalizes.

can you elaborate? how does the left factionalize?

>At Rutgers Students for Peace, we've pretty much managed to keep that to a 
>minimum - libertarians and anarchists work side by side, with no political 
>contest between them.

this is because there is no political line struggle, which means there is no 
political development to your group. line struggle is necessary to all 
united front activity, it must be embraced.

>I encourage such groups to be formed elsewheres, and for those in the 
>Rutgers area(s) to get in contact with us (rustudentsforpeace@...).

such sectarian groups are a hazard to the united front against imperialism. 
to expel organizations from coalition efforts because they are practicing 
line struggle weakens the united front. it also makes you & others look 
scared to defend your positions.


>There is, after all, a purpose to this peace movement - namely, stopping 
>the war and the curtailing of civil liberties - and other movements also 
>have purposes that should transend internal bickering. We should try to see 
>to it that it does.

the purpose of the united front against imperialism is to destroy 
imperialism. unless you are satisfied with just stopping one way imperialism 
kills and letting it manifest in all the others.

>Anyway, that's my spiel. I remain,
- Rachel Lichtenfeld,
R.U. Students for Peace


>
> >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>

joe asks:
	what should we do about the world fraud?

fraud responds:
	we should vote for the greens for a better world.

warn your children, parents, the fraud lurks...
we must fight the opportunist fraud with revolutionary democracy.
presently imperialism is stronger than the people and that is why the
people are actively defending themselves with their vote to defeat
schundler.


> > >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> > >Reply-To: onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: <poprogress@yahoogroups.com>, <onepeoplesproject@yahoogroups.com>,
> >"Anti- War Coalition" <antiwarcoalition@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: [onepeoplesproject] Final US ultimate warning to Iraq
> > >Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:40:54 -0500
> > >
> > >Final US ultimate warning to Iraq
> > >Iraq-USA, Politics, 11/5/2001
> > >
> > >The Kuwaiti daily al-Seyash issued on Sunday quoted sources at the
> >British house of commons as saying that the British prime minister Tony
> >Blair asked the Jordanian King Abdullah II during his visit to Amman to
> >convey a final warning from the US administration to Iraq on the need of
> >accepting the return back of the UN inspectors to Baghdad within three
> >weeks, otherwise the next station of the war against terrorism after
> >Afghanistan will be Iraq.
> > >
> > >The sources indicated that Iraq was told about the warning through an
> >envoy in the Jordanian royal court.
> > >
> > >The sources also told the paper about information reported from Moscow
> >that the Russian foreign minister Igore Ivanov conveyed to the Russian
> >administration following his meeting with the US secretary of state Colin
> >Powell about a conviction formed within himself that a British- American
> >attacks at Baghdad has become very near.
> > >
> > >Source: arabicnews.com
> > >
> > >http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/011105/2001110505.html
> > >
> >
>
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2286
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-11 14:48:35
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism" -AB

It would be more interesting if you answered the question directly: "Is 
*your* line peoples war on the greens?" rather than more cryptic 
cross-polinated sloganeering.






----Original Message Follows----
From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 01:19:52 +0000

'shd be' idealism is not the point.
everyone 'shd be'. but in reality there is class struggle.

u&s line is: greens are right.
tell me what is u&s' line re: the right?

peoples' war on the right.
combat liberalism.


 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 19:32:58
 >
 >The Greens should become an ally in the UF.
 >
 >Are you saying that your line is "People's war against the Green Party?"
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >----Original Message Follows----
 >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 03:55:29 +0000
 >
 >yr conciliatory line is to reconcile w/ greens on basis that they merely
 >admit a particular 'mistake', which will supposedly 'transform' them into
 >an
 >ally in the revolutionary democratic united front, thereby earning yr
 >endorsement of 'vote' & 'trust'. (in nwk, you shd push this. dont be
 >encouraging these reactionaries in nb)
 >
 >greens enabled bush. as did republicans.
 >
 >u&s' line is: greens are right.
 >
 >yr argument is w/ u&s.
 >
 >
 >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 01:34:16
 >  >
 >  >My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every
 >  >organization has competing ideologies.
 >  >
 >  >I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an
 >out.
 >  >That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--
 >  >
 >  >Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?
 >  >
 >  >Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans
 >  >also,
 >  >for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)
 >  >
 >  >you lost me...MS
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
 >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 02:05:15 +0000
 >  >
 >  >u&s line: greens are right.
 >  >
 >  >yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party
 >w/
 >  >a
 >  >"different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the
 >  >non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".
 >  >
 >  >("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)
 >  >
 >  >yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for 
their
 >  >"facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...
 >  >
 >  >profound.
 >  >
 >  >peoples' war on the right.
 >  >combat liberalism.
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >  >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:32:24
 >  >  >
 >  >  >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since an
 >honest
 >  >(&
 >  >  >I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the
 >Nader'00
 >  >  >farce
 >  >  >would have to include an internal transformation of the party & 
bring
 >  >them
 >  >  >into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for revolutionary
 >  >  >democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them a better
 >  >  >alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic 
Machine
 >in
 >  >NB
 >  >  >where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, it would be
 >  >  >necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as it
 >would
 >  >be
 >  >a
 >  >  >different party with a different leading ideology. It would still 
not
 >be
 >  >a
 >  >  >replacement for the *mass* independant party that must & will
 >eventually
 >  >  >emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the Greens think they
 >are
 >  >now
 >  >  >that)
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
 >  >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >  >To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >  >Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 05:00:53 +0000
 >  >  >
 >  >  >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in
 >  >facilitating
 >  >  >Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we humanity is now
 >faced
 >  >  >with
 >  >  >is put foward by the Green Party, this is one progressive that will
 >  >never
 >  >  >vote Green for "higher office" for lack of trust, to start."   -ms
 >  >  >
 >  >  >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for
 >reactionary
 >  >  >greenback$, "progressive"?
 >  >  >
 >  >  >u&s position is: greens are right.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
 >  >  >combat liberalism.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >cs
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >  >  >  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >  >  >To: poprogress@yahoogroups.com, can_bush@...,
 >  >  >  >nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >  >  >  >CC: bbz@..., blombard@...,
 >  >  >  >cjangel@..., jstanton@..., tabenigno@...,
 >  >  >  >tg347@..., behorne@..., khabirah@...,
 >  >  >  >1blackmale@..., E_MacBlain@...,
 >  >Ceettadili@...,
 >  >  >  >AMAlston1@..., poetas@...,
 >  >locicero@...,
 >  >  >  >sztamke@..., krisbas@..., kvt@...,
 >  >  >  >csevans@..., daverapp@...,
 >  >kb2zuz@...,
 >  >  >  >MidsummerVixen@..., DVG716@..., aquataffy4@...,
 >  >  >  >morguebabe77@..., bgigas@..., Jordel7@...,
 >  >  >  >Skyblue122@..., elizabethia@..., 
atupahache@...,
 >  >  >  >Eman101@..., Amirib@..., HRose16342@...,
 >  >  >iacenter@...,
 >  >  >  >Mkouyate@..., pjustice2000@...,
 >  >  >PrimeMinister901@...,
 >  >  >  >TooTallLa@..., Coolretta@..., MNorales@...,
 >  >  >  >Meratj@..., Voyageur1234@..., blackjack76@...,
 >  >  >  >TheStudentActionCommittee@egroups.c
 >  >  >  >Subject: [nbpc] Re: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >  >  >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 02:36:30
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest assesment of
 >the
 >  >  >role
 >  >  >  >of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the
 >disasterous
 >  >  >  >results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by the
 >Green
 >  >  >  >Party,
 >  >  >  >this is one progressive that will never vote Green for "higher
 >  >office"
 >  >  >for
 >  >  >  >lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly 
insisted
 >  >there
 >  >  >  >was
 >  >  >  >no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, & with 
Nader
 >  >  >  >campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where
 >Nader
 >  >  >carried
 >  >  >  >92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election (a 
gross
 >  >  >  >violation
 >  >  >  >of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce Afrin's
 >less-slick
 >  >  >echo
 >  >  >  >of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely 
spoon-fed
 >  >only
 >  >  >  >defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" rather than
 >real
 >  >  >  >substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces
 >(including
 >  >  >Nader
 >  >  >  >himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the right-wing Bush
 >  >family
 >  >  >  >oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring leading us to
 >economic
 >  >  >  >disaster
 >  >  >  >and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been warning the Greens, et
 >al.
 >  >  >about
 >  >  >  >this scenario since being brow-beat for suggesting Bradley was a
 >  >better
 >  >  >  >dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for the 
intentions
 >of
 >  >  >many
 >  >  >  >Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party hasn't yet figured
 >it
 >  >  >out,
 >  >  >&
 >  >  >  >my vote will reflect this. & for those who like to quote Mao,
 >recall
 >  >his
 >  >  >  >words on "intentions" (On Practice/On Contradictions)--that the
 >  >"truest
 >  >  >  >criteria with which to judge intentions are *material results*.
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >Unity & Struggle,
 >  >  >  >Matthew Smith
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >  >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey holding a
 >  >  >  >double-digit
 >  >  >  >lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine points,
 >there
 >  >is
 >  >  >  >ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote their
 >  >conscience
 >  >  >and
 >  >  >  >cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green Party for
 >Governor.
 >  >  >Jerry
 >  >  >  >is
 >  >  >  >the only candidate putting forward the progressive agenda: a ban
 >on
 >  >  >  >"consent
 >  >  >  >searches"' universal health care, adequate spending for public
 >  >  >education,
 >  >  >  >jobs and housing, a living wage and independent and effective
 >  >civilian
 >  >  >  >review
 >  >  >  >of police misconduct allegations.
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we can
 >only
 >  >  >  >conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race.
 >  >  >Therefore,
 >  >  >  >vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 >  >  >  >poprogress-unsubscribe@egroups.com
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 >  >  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >_________________________________________________________________
 >  >  >  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 >  >  >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >_________________________________________________________________
 >  >  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 >  >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >  >  >
 >  >  >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 >  >  >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
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 >  >  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 >  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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 >  >  >
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 >  >  >
 >  >  >_________________________________________________________________
 >  >  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 >  >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
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 >  >
 >  >
 >  >_________________________________________________________________
 >  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >  >
 >  >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 >  >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
 >  >
 >  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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 >  >
 >  >
 >  >_________________________________________________________________
 >  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
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 >
 >
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 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >
 >
 >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
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 >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2287
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-11-11 23:01:05
Subject:Response to Patterson LTE
Message:

The following nonsense appeared in Saturday's THNT.  By 5pm tomorrow, 
November 12, we need at least 3 response letters written by you, NBPC 
members resident in NB.  Please email your responses to 
letters@... and copy them here.  Thanks.  


Saturday's letters to HNT 


Published in the Home News Tribune 11/10/01
New Brunswick writing an urban success story

Frank Coury's letter to the editor (Oct. 19) contained a grossly 
distorted view of New Brunswick's successful revitalization.
New Brunswick has had tremendous success in creating a vibrant and 
diverse downtown that is the home of Rutgers University, Johnson & 
Johnson and the region's leading medical complex and cultural center. 
This successful revitalization has also taken place in neighborhoods 
throughout the city.

This summer, the New Brunswick Homes public-housing towers were 
demolished to make way for new mixed-income housing. Former public-
housing residents were successfully relocated and provided with job 
and educational benefits to allow them to create better quality 
lives. Through this process, unemployment for former New Brunswick 
Homes residents dropped from 44 percent in 1999 to 7.4 percent in 
August.

A second free shuttle-bus service for residents, the New BrunsQwik 
Shuttle, was initiated in September.

Nineteen new affordable homes were constructed this past spring by 
Antioch Community Development Corp. with substantial grant assistance 
from the city, in the Renaissance 2000 neighborhood near Route 27. 
Nearby, 124 condominiums are being rehabilitated for middle-income 
and low- and moderate-income families by First Baptist CDC at Hampton 
Club with substantial assistance from city grants. Additionally, with 
City assistance, a new grocery store, eight-acre park, modernized 
elementary school, family health center and transitional housing for 
homeless women have been developed in this neighborhood .

Redevelopment plans have been approved for the development of new 
housing in the 2nd Ward along Remsen and Commercial avenues. In 
conjunction with these plans, the city has targeted $300,000 for the 
rehabilitation of existing homes and new sidewalks in the same 
neighborhood.

These are only some of the neighborhood-centered revitalization 
activities occurring in New Brunswick. Coury's derogatory comments 
about New Brunswick were made without consideration of the facts.

Glenn Patterson
Director, Department of Planning, Community and Economic Development,
NEW BRUNSWICK









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2288
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-12 00:28:44
Subject:Fwd: Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

amiri, matt wants to know if you have the lines:
	1. peoples war on the right &
	2. greens are right...
is your line peoples war on the greens?


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>

"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"AB
>
>It would be more interesting if you answered the question directly: "Is 
>*your* line peoples war on the greens?" rather than more cryptic
>cross-polinated sloganeering.
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>

'shd be' idealism is not the point.
everyone 'shd be'. but in reality there is class struggle.

u&s line is: greens are right.
tell me what is u&s' line re: the right?

peoples' war on the right.
combat liberalism.

>
From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>

The Greens should become an ally in the UF.

Are you saying that your line is "People's war against the Green Party?"
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >
>  >yr conciliatory line is to reconcile w/ greens on basis that they merely 
>admit a particular 'mistake', which will supposedly 'transform' them into 
>an ally in the revolutionary democratic united front, thereby earning yr 
>endorsement of 'vote' & 'trust'. (in nwk, you shd push this. dont be 
>encouraging these reactionaries in nb)
>  >
greens enabled bush. as did republicans.

u&s' line is: greens are right.

yr argument is w/ u&s.
>
>  >
>  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >  >
My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every
organization has competing ideologies.
>  >  >
I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an out. 
That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--

Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?

Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans
also, for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)

you lost me...MS

>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >  >
u&s line: greens are right.

yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party
w/ a "different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the 
non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".

("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)

yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for
>their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose... profound.
>  >  >
>  >  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >  >combat liberalism.
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since an 
>honest (& I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the 
>Nader'00 farce would have to include an internal transformation of the 
>party & bring them into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for 
>revolutionary democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them a 
>better alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic 
>Machine in NB where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, it 
>would be necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as it 
>would be a different party with a different leading ideology. It would 
>still not be a replacement for the *mass* independant party that must & 
>will eventually emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the Greens 
>think they are now  that)
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in
>  >  >facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we 
>humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green Party, this is one 
>progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office" for lack of 
>trust, to start."   -ms
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for
>  >reactionary greenback$, "progressive"?
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >u&s position is: greens are right.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >  >  >combat liberalism.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >cs
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest assesment 
>of the role of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the 
>disasterous results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by the 
>Green Party, this is one progressive that will never vote Green for "higher 
>office" for lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly 
>insisted there was no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, & 
>with Nader campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where 
>Nader carried 92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election (a 
>gross violation of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce Afrin's 
>less-slick echo of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely 
>spoon-fed only defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" rather 
>than real substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces 
>(including Nader himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the 
>right-wing Bush family oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring leading 
>us to economic disaster and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been warning 
>the Greens, et al. about this scenario since being brow-beat for suggesting 
>Bradley was a better dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for 
>the intentions of many Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party 
>hasn't yet figured it out, my vote will reflect this. & for those who like 
>to quote Mao, recall his words on "intentions" (On Practice/On 
>Contradictions)--that the "truest criteria with which to judge intentions 
>are *material results*.
>  >  >  >  >Unity & Struggle,
>  >  >  >  >Matthew Smith
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >  >  >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey holding 
>a double-digit lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine 
>points, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote 
>their conscience and cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green Party 
>for Governor. Jerry is the only candidate putting forward the progressive 
>agenda: a ban on "consent searches"' universal health care, adequate 
>spending for public education, jobs and housing, a living wage and 
>independent and effective civilian review of police misconduct allegations.
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we 
>can only conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race. 
>Therefore, vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2289
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-12 15:30:58
Subject:Re: fake playaz
Message:

>
>>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>


still no explaination. what's the action? joe


From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>

I would like to know what this is about.
I already sd that sectarianism is a form of opportunism. While I
am all for drawing clear lines of demarcation, so that there is no
mistake about political lines, at the same time this isn't a
"game" that a group or anyone else controls. We are talking (I
hope) about orgainzing the people to seize power (for their own
benifit, not the benifit of their wanna be leaders).
I think that explainaition is required but the language of "game"
implying control is betrays alot. Calling others aents even if you
disagree strongly doesn't help it only plays into the divide and
conquer strategy of Imperialsim.


From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>

i am sending this broadly because these statements need to come
out into the open with an explaination for all. i do not
appreciate getting e-mails like this, but maybe i am
misinterpreting the message - can paul mcgee reply all and state
his case in an open above board fashion? what game and who is he
calling agents and on what basis? agents for who/what?

joe smith
>>>>
>>>>>From: "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@...>
>>>>>To: can_bush@...
>>>>>Subject: fake playaz
>>>>>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:40:06 +0000
>>>>>
>>>>get your own game, agents.
>>>><< message3.txt >>
>>>
>>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2290
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-12 17:13:39
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

Joe- How do you expect to be taken seriously when you play these kind of 
games.  It's stupid & would be annoying, if it wasn't so boring.

I think I have an idea of what AB's line is.  My question was raised to 
Cliff when he repeatedly mashed the slogans "Greens are right...Peoples' War 
on the Right".  I asked Cliff if this implies that his line is "Peoples war 
on the Greens."  He has consistantly avoided answering, so I'm not clear on 
why he would mash them together.  If you consider AB's statement "its not 
the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism", you may 
realize that it's a question of attacking this particular line within the 
Green Party (as elsewhere, in the "Fake-Left").  Instead of goofing around, 
wasting time, why not answer the question or ask Cliff to & then we can have 
a real discussion.    -Matt


----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: amirib@..., nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, vivaohio@...
Subject: [nbpc] Fwd:  Re: Coleman for Governor
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:28:44 -0500

amiri, matt wants to know if you have the lines:
	1. peoples war on the right &
	2. greens are right...
is your line peoples war on the greens?


 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>

"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"AB
 >
 >It would be more interesting if you answered the question directly: "Is
 >*your* line peoples war on the greens?" rather than more cryptic
 >cross-polinated sloganeering.
 >
 >
 >----Original Message Follows----
 >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>

'shd be' idealism is not the point.
everyone 'shd be'. but in reality there is class struggle.

u&s line is: greens are right.
tell me what is u&s' line re: the right?

peoples' war on the right.
combat liberalism.

 >
From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>

The Greens should become an ally in the UF.

Are you saying that your line is "People's war against the Green Party?"
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
 >  >
 >  >yr conciliatory line is to reconcile w/ greens on basis that they 
merely
 >admit a particular 'mistake', which will supposedly 'transform' them into
 >an ally in the revolutionary democratic united front, thereby earning yr
 >endorsement of 'vote' & 'trust'. (in nwk, you shd push this. dont be
 >encouraging these reactionaries in nb)
 >  >
greens enabled bush. as did republicans.

u&s' line is: greens are right.

yr argument is w/ u&s.
 >
 >  >
 >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >  >  >
My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every
organization has competing ideologies.
 >  >  >
I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an out.
That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--

Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?

Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans
also, for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)

you lost me...MS

 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
 >  >  >
u&s line: greens are right.

yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party
w/ a "different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the
non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".

("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)

yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for
 >their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose... profound.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
 >  >  >combat liberalism.
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since an
 >honest (& I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the
 >Nader'00 farce would have to include an internal transformation of the
 >party & bring them into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for
 >revolutionary democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them a
 >better alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic
 >Machine in NB where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, it
 >would be necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as it
 >would be a different party with a different leading ideology. It would
 >still not be a replacement for the *mass* independant party that must &
 >will eventually emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the Greens
 >think they are now  that)
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in
 >  >  >facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we
 >humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green Party, this is one
 >progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office" for lack of
 >trust, to start."   -ms
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for
 >  >reactionary greenback$, "progressive"?
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >u&s position is: greens are right.
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
 >  >  >  >combat liberalism.
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >cs
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest assesment
 >of the role of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the
 >disasterous results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by 
the
 >Green Party, this is one progressive that will never vote Green for 
"higher
 >office" for lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly
 >insisted there was no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, &
 >with Nader campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where
 >Nader carried 92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election (a
 >gross violation of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce Afrin's
 >less-slick echo of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely
 >spoon-fed only defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" rather
 >than real substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces
 >(including Nader himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the
 >right-wing Bush family oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring 
leading
 >us to economic disaster and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been warning
 >the Greens, et al. about this scenario since being brow-beat for 
suggesting
 >Bradley was a better dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for
 >the intentions of many Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party
 >hasn't yet figured it out, my vote will reflect this. & for those who like
 >to quote Mao, recall his words on "intentions" (On Practice/On
 >Contradictions)--that the "truest criteria with which to judge intentions
 >are *material results*.
 >  >  >  >  >Unity & Struggle,
 >  >  >  >  >Matthew Smith
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >  >  >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey holding
 >a double-digit lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine
 >points, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote
 >their conscience and cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green 
Party
 >for Governor. Jerry is the only candidate putting forward the progressive
 >agenda: a ban on "consent searches"' universal health care, adequate
 >spending for public education, jobs and housing, a living wage and
 >independent and effective civilian review of police misconduct 
allegations.
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we
 >can only conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race.
 >Therefore, vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2291
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-12 19:14:50
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

in what way do you distinguish "this particular line within" the right  
greens?

you ought to have an "idea" of ab's line. its greens r right.

whats "stupid", "annoying", un"serious", "boring", &"goofy" is yr own right 
wing liberal conciliatory tendencies which repeatedly  contradict u&s and 
have you holding hands w/ republicans &their green cohorts.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, amirib@...
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Fwd: Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:13:39
>
>Joe- How do you expect to be taken seriously when you play these kind of
>games.  It's stupid & would be annoying, if it wasn't so boring.
>
>I think I have an idea of what AB's line is.  My question was raised to
>Cliff when he repeatedly mashed the slogans "Greens are right...Peoples' 
>War
>on the Right".  I asked Cliff if this implies that his line is "Peoples war
>on the Greens."  He has consistantly avoided answering, so I'm not clear on
>why he would mash them together.  If you consider AB's statement "its not
>the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism", you may
>realize that it's a question of attacking this particular line within the
>Green Party (as elsewhere, in the "Fake-Left").  Instead of goofing around,
>wasting time, why not answer the question or ask Cliff to & then we can 
>have
>a real discussion.    -Matt
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: amirib@..., nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, vivaohio@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd:  Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:28:44 -0500
>
>amiri, matt wants to know if you have the lines:
>	1. peoples war on the right &
>	2. greens are right...
>is your line peoples war on the greens?
>
>
>  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>
>"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"AB
>  >
>  >It would be more interesting if you answered the question directly: "Is
>  >*your* line peoples war on the greens?" rather than more cryptic
>  >cross-polinated sloganeering.
>  >
>  >
>  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>
>'shd be' idealism is not the point.
>everyone 'shd be'. but in reality there is class struggle.
>
>u&s line is: greens are right.
>tell me what is u&s' line re: the right?
>
>peoples' war on the right.
>combat liberalism.
>
>  >
>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>
>The Greens should become an ally in the UF.
>
>Are you saying that your line is "People's war against the Green Party?"
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >  >
>  >  >yr conciliatory line is to reconcile w/ greens on basis that they
>merely
>  >admit a particular 'mistake', which will supposedly 'transform' them 
>into
>  >an ally in the revolutionary democratic united front, thereby earning yr
>  >endorsement of 'vote' & 'trust'. (in nwk, you shd push this. dont be
>  >encouraging these reactionaries in nb)
>  >  >
>greens enabled bush. as did republicans.
>
>u&s' line is: greens are right.
>
>yr argument is w/ u&s.
>  >
>  >  >
>  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >  >  >
>My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every
>organization has competing ideologies.
>  >  >  >
>I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an out.
>That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--
>
>Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?
>
>Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans
>also, for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)
>
>you lost me...MS
>
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >  >  >
>u&s line: greens are right.
>
>yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party
>w/ a "different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the
>non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".
>
>("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)
>
>yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for
>  >their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose... profound.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >  >  >combat liberalism.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since 
>an
>  >honest (& I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the
>  >Nader'00 farce would have to include an internal transformation of the
>  >party & bring them into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for
>  >revolutionary democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them 
>a
>  >better alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic
>  >Machine in NB where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, it
>  >would be necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as 
>it
>  >would be a different party with a different leading ideology. It would
>  >still not be a replacement for the *mass* independant party that must &
>  >will eventually emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the Greens
>  >think they are now  that)
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in
>  >  >  >facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we
>  >humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green Party, this is one
>  >progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office" for lack of
>  >trust, to start."   -ms
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for
>  >  >reactionary greenback$, "progressive"?
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >u&s position is: greens are right.
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >  >  >  >combat liberalism.
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >cs
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest 
>assesment
>  >of the role of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the
>  >disasterous results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by
>the
>  >Green Party, this is one progressive that will never vote Green for
>"higher
>  >office" for lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly
>  >insisted there was no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, 
>&
>  >with Nader campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where
>  >Nader carried 92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election 
>(a
>  >gross violation of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce 
>Afrin's
>  >less-slick echo of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely
>  >spoon-fed only defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" 
>rather
>  >than real substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces
>  >(including Nader himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the
>  >right-wing Bush family oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring
>leading
>  >us to economic disaster and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been 
>warning
>  >the Greens, et al. about this scenario since being brow-beat for
>suggesting
>  >Bradley was a better dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for
>  >the intentions of many Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party
>  >hasn't yet figured it out, my vote will reflect this. & for those who 
>like
>  >to quote Mao, recall his words on "intentions" (On Practice/On
>  >Contradictions)--that the "truest criteria with which to judge 
>intentions
>  >are *material results*.
>  >  >  >  >  >Unity & Struggle,
>  >  >  >  >  >Matthew Smith
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >  >  >  >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey 
>holding
>  >a double-digit lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine
>  >points, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote
>  >their conscience and cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green
>Party
>  >for Governor. Jerry is the only candidate putting forward the 
>progressive
>  >agenda: a ban on "consent searches"' universal health care, adequate
>  >spending for public education, jobs and housing, a living wage and
>  >independent and effective civilian review of police misconduct
>allegations.
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we
>  >can only conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race.
>  >Therefore, vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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>
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>
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2292
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-13 07:20:49
Subject:Fwd: Newark Community Forum on War
Message:

There will be a Newark Community Forum on the War in Afghanistan on 
Wednesday, Nov. 28, at 7:00 PM. The location will be 53 Lincoln Park in 
Newark.

Speakers include Ras Baraka of Black Nia Force, Frederika Bey of WISOMMM, 
Inc., Lawrence Hamm of the People's Organization for Progress, and Arthur 
Henson of For a Better World.

A flyer in printable format is attached.


_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2293
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-11-13 07:37:04
Subject:Re: anti-terrorism and anti-war coalition
Message:

from what & where did the RED collective come? is the republican party 
welcome into the anti-war coalition? the new brunswick peoples campaign 
will join the coalition, when is the next public meeting? -joe




--- In starc-rutgers@y..., "Thomas DeGloma" <tdegloma@h...> wrote:
hey folks, the following is the first statement of a local group aiming 
to build an anti-war coalition. Please read, feel free to comment, and 
forward freely. It is copied to email and attached.
Thanks,
Tom DeGloma

TOWARDS WAR OR TOWARDS PEACE?
How do we stop terrorism and war?

Statement by Radical Expansion of Democracy (RED Collective)  - based 
in Central Jersey.

On September 11th, people all over the United States stood in horror as 
a vicious terrorist attack killed thousands of innocent civilians. This 
arbitrary mass murder provoked awe, sadness and anger in all of us as 
thousands of families lost their loved ones so unjustly. We, along with 
the overwhelming majority of peoples and nations, condemn terrorism and 
support the prosecution of those responsible for it. But we also want 
to know how this came to be and make sure that it never happens again.

Government leaders and most commentators in the mainstream media insist 
that this was an "attack on freedom" and want the US to prepare for war 
and for the restriction of our civil liberties for "security". We feel 
that this response is not only dangerous, but that it does not address 
the root cause of terrorism.

Why would ruthless terrorists target the World Trade Center and 
Pentagon? The World Trade Center represents the heart of world finance 
in the "New World Order" of growing inequality in the distribution of 
wealth and resources, where most people on the planet live in extreme 
poverty and very few are immensely rich.(i)  The Pentagon is the heart 
of the US military that all too often is made to enforce foreign 
policies that benefit giant multinational corporations like big oil 
companies, international banks and the weapons industry at the expense 
of people living in other nations.(ii)

In the Middle East, US foreign policy has angered hundreds of millions 
in the Arab nations who have come to view the United States as the 
proponent and facilitator of inequality and violence in their region 
(from the occupied Palestinian territories to the devastating ten-year 
embargo on Iraq). These people are frustrated by the unilateral 
influence that the US has wielded in their countries, and they fiercely 
resent their lack of power to control their own affairs. Worse still, 
in the late 1970s, in order to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan 
and to guarantee multinational corporations access to oil in the 
region, US intelligence financed terrorist groups -including the 
Taliban and Osama Bin Laden- by giving them arms and training without 
thoughts to the long-term consequences.(iii)

Since the end of the "cold war", US foreign policy has antagonized 
dozens of countries and billions of people. The US military bombed 8 
different countries in the past ten years: Iraq (1991 - 2001), Sudan 
(8/20/1998), Afghanistan (8/20/1998), Yugoslavia (1999), and the 
following "accidentally": a Chinese embassy (5/7/1999), Pakistan (8/20/
1998), Bulgaria (4/29/1999), and Vieques in Puerto Rico (4/19/
1999).(iv)  The US government also stations some 260,000 troops in over 
100 nations around the world (v) and will hand 7.4 billion dollars in 
"military aid" to over 70 countries in 2001.(vi) In 1999, US military 
contractors sold 11.8 billion dollars worth of weapons all over the 
world, far more than any other nation.(vii)

Since President Bush took office, our government has repeatedly bullied 
nations it calls "enemies" and alienated nations it calls "allies" by 
rejecting treaties supported by most countries in the world on the 
environment, nuclear testing, missile defense and by walking out on the 
UN global conference on racism. No other country in the world claims a 
unilateral right to determine the political and economic policies of 
all other nations.

People all over the world who firmly oppose terrorism still resent the 
"New World Order" where the US government and military act as the sole 
superpower. This makes the current world situation unsustainable and 
dangerous to the people of the US as well as to the rest of the world. 
As long as we allow the US government, in our name, to conduct policies 
that promote inequality and war, we risk being targeted by terrorist 
violence and suffering the consequences of war as millions of people 
around the world do every day.

The push in the US to go to war against all states where terrorists may 
reside threatens to aggravate world instability and risks provoking 
more attacks on US soil. The irresponsible statements by some former 
government officials could lead us in a possible world war. Lawrence 
Eagleburger, former Secretary of State under Bush Sr., told ABC News 
that the US response should be "irrational" even if it causes numerous 
innocent civilian deaths to the "enemy". History has illustrated that 
war may knock out one terrorist network but it will never stop 
terrorism altogether. Violence will only worsen the conditions that 
cause alienated individuals to join terrorist organizations. We must 
oppose the potential deaths of more innocent people at home and abroad. 
The entire people of any nation must not be punished for the vicious 
actions of a few extremists or irresponsible leaders.

Right-wing commentators contend that terrorists attack freedom when 
they are the ones talking about restricting our civil liberties for 
"security" so they can persevere in their dangerous policies without 
the democratic participation of the people. Alexander Haig, former 
Secretary of State under Reagan, told CNN that "we cannot let social 
justice and civil liberties stand in the way of security". We must 
oppose any attempt to take away our civil liberties in the name of 
"national security". Our dire circumstances demand that we strengthen 
democracy and increase the active participation of all people in the 
country to find real solutions to the critical problems we face.

In this threatening atmosphere, people of Middle Eastern descent and 
other foreign ancestry living in the US have been targeted and verbally 
or physically attacked. The answer to indiscriminate hate is not more 
indiscriminate hate. We must actively oppose all forms of racist 
retaliation against any and all people in this country.

The RED Collective calls for the formation of an anti-war coalition to 
prevent a dangerous escalation of worldwide violence and to demand an 
immediate nationwide public debate on the role played by the US in the 
world and its consequences for all. We aim for this coalition to inform 
people of the global inequalities and military violence that threaten 
human safety and democracy in our country as well as in the rest of the 
world. The people of the US must recognize its collective 
responsibility to discontinue all US policies that aggravate inequality 
in the world and to replace them with policies aimed at repairing past 
injustices in order to realize the promise of democracy for all.

For more information, go to www.yahoogroups.com/group/RedCollective or 
e-mail RedCollective@y...

September 14, 2001

(i)  "Half the world -- nearly three billion people -- live on less 
than two dollars a day and the GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of the 
poorest 48 nations (i.e. a quarter of the world's countries) is less 
than the wealth of the world's three richest people combined." (See The 
politics of hunger, Le Monde, November 1998; The 9th International 
Anti-Corruption Conference Plenary Address by James Wolfensohn, August 
2000; 1999 Human Development Report, United Nations Development 
Program) For a comprehensive source reference, see http://
www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Facts.asp#1.

(ii) See http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/
Spending.asp.  "The US military budget is more than twenty-two times as 
large as the combined spending of the seven "rogue" states (Cuba, Iran, 
Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria). It is more than the 
combined spending of the next fifteen nations. The USA spends more than 
the rest of the G7 countries combined. The U.S. military budget request 
for fiscal year 2002 is $343.2 billion. (The U.S. military budget 
request for Fiscal Year 2001 was $305 billion -- five times larger than 
the Russian budget, the second largest spender. And Congress had 
increased that budget request to $310 billion. This was up from 
approximately $288.8 billion, in 2000.) See also http://www.cdi.org/
issues/wme/.

(iii)  Hiro, Dilip "The cost of an Afghan 'victory'" The Nation (2/15/
1999) - see www.thenation.com
(iv)  As reported by the US military to the press on the dates 
mentioned
(v)  US Department of Defense, Active Duty Military Personnel Strengths 
By Regional Area and By Country
(vi)  Center for International Policy - see www.fas.org/asmp/
fast_facts.htm
(vii)  From Congressional Research Service, cited by International 
Action Network on Small Arms (2/15/2001)

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2294
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-13 09:25:59
Subject:Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

>Joe- How do you expect to be taken seriously when you play these kind of 
>games.  It's stupid & would be annoying, if it wasn't so boring.

i guess your satisfied with jerkin off fortunato - a guy who calls me a 
short-pants communist - who would consider himself a success if schundler 
won.


>I think I have an idea of what AB's line is.

you act like you don't have a clue. maybe you can share what you think 
amiri's line is.


>My question was raised to Cliff when he repeatedly mashed the slogans 
>"Greens are right...Peoples' War on the Right".

when/where has cliff "repeatedly mashed the slogans"? i haven't seen it, but 
i would offer that you haven't done anything with these slogans but deny 
them & counter organize efforts to apply them. by sucking up to republicans 
& greens in the peoples campaign -yoU&S didn't go to print- and still today 
with your soft line w/fortunato.


>I asked Cliff if this implies that his line is "Peoples war
>on the Greens."

you ask cliff this to avoid the criticism he offered to your position that 
you expressed to fortunato. plus your question is ONLY an attempt to have 
him say yes so you can point out how ultra-left you think he is.


>He has consistantly avoided answering, so I'm not clear on
>why he would mash them together.

again, when/where?


>If you consider AB's statement "its not the structure that infuriates but 
>the right wing liberalism", you may realize that it's a question of 
>attacking this particular line within the Green Party (as elsewhere, in the 
>"Fake-Left").

i wouldn't realize this from your behavior. what does florida have to do 
with attacking the right wing agenda of the greens? greens are right before, 
during, & after florida, so what is you agenda with this line of criticism. 
what happens when joegreen says your right, nadir shouldn't have campaigned 
florida? that doesn't solve anything, does it?


>Instead of goofing around, wasting time, why not answer the question or ask 
>Cliff to & then we can have a real discussion.    -Matt

who's goofing around & wasting time? who's the one jerkin around w/greens, 
not me & cliff. let's revisit a section of your earlier postings:
>At such a time, it would be necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens >are 
>right" line, as it would be a different party with a different
>leading ideology. It would still not be a replacement for the *mass* 
>independant party that must & will eventually emerge from the united-
>front. (Unfortunately, the Greens think they are now  that)

what do you mean by, "*mass* independent party that... will eventually 
emerge from the united-front"? do you mean you "will eventually" start 
organizing for this party? how will this party emerge besides "eventually"?

joe

>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: amirib@..., nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, vivaohio@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd:  Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:28:44 -0500
>
>amiri, matt wants to know if you have the lines:
>	1. peoples war on the right &
>	2. greens are right...
>is your line peoples war on the greens?
>
>
>  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>
>"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"AB
>  >
>  >It would be more interesting if you answered the question directly: "Is
>  >*your* line peoples war on the greens?" rather than more cryptic
>  >cross-polinated sloganeering.
>  >
>  >
>  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>
>'shd be' idealism is not the point.
>everyone 'shd be'. but in reality there is class struggle.
>
>u&s line is: greens are right.
>tell me what is u&s' line re: the right?
>
>peoples' war on the right.
>combat liberalism.
>
>  >
>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>
>The Greens should become an ally in the UF.
>
>Are you saying that your line is "People's war against the Green Party?"
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >  >
>  >  >yr conciliatory line is to reconcile w/ greens on basis that they
>merely
>  >admit a particular 'mistake', which will supposedly 'transform' them 
>into
>  >an ally in the revolutionary democratic united front, thereby earning yr
>  >endorsement of 'vote' & 'trust'. (in nwk, you shd push this. dont be
>  >encouraging these reactionaries in nb)
>  >  >
>greens enabled bush. as did republicans.
>
>u&s' line is: greens are right.
>
>yr argument is w/ u&s.
>  >
>  >  >
>  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >  >  >
>My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every
>organization has competing ideologies.
>  >  >  >
>I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an out.
>That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--
>
>Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?
>
>Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans
>also, for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)
>
>you lost me...MS
>
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >  >  >
>u&s line: greens are right.
>
>yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party
>w/ a "different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the
>non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".
>
>("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)
>
>yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for
>  >their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose... profound.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >  >  >combat liberalism.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since 
>an
>  >honest (& I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the
>  >Nader'00 farce would have to include an internal transformation of the
>  >party & bring them into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for
>  >revolutionary democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them 
>a
>  >better alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic
>  >Machine in NB where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, it
>  >would be necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as 
>it
>  >would be a different party with a different leading ideology. It would
>  >still not be a replacement for the *mass* independant party that must &
>  >will eventually emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the Greens
>  >think they are now  that)
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in
>  >  >  >facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we
>  >humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green Party, this is one
>  >progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office" for lack of
>  >trust, to start."   -ms
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for
>  >  >reactionary greenback$, "progressive"?
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >u&s position is: greens are right.
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >  >  >  >combat liberalism.
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >cs
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest 
>assesment
>  >of the role of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the
>  >disasterous results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by
>the
>  >Green Party, this is one progressive that will never vote Green for
>"higher
>  >office" for lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly
>  >insisted there was no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, 
>&
>  >with Nader campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where
>  >Nader carried 92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election 
>(a
>  >gross violation of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce 
>Afrin's
>  >less-slick echo of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely
>  >spoon-fed only defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" 
>rather
>  >than real substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces
>  >(including Nader himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the
>  >right-wing Bush family oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring
>leading
>  >us to economic disaster and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been 
>warning
>  >the Greens, et al. about this scenario since being brow-beat for
>suggesting
>  >Bradley was a better dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for
>  >the intentions of many Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party
>  >hasn't yet figured it out, my vote will reflect this. & for those who 
>like
>  >to quote Mao, recall his words on "intentions" (On Practice/On
>  >Contradictions)--that the "truest criteria with which to judge 
>intentions
>  >are *material results*.
>  >  >  >  >  >Unity & Struggle,
>  >  >  >  >  >Matthew Smith
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >  >  >  >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey 
>holding
>  >a double-digit lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine
>  >points, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote
>  >their conscience and cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green
>Party
>  >for Governor. Jerry is the only candidate putting forward the 
>progressive
>  >agenda: a ban on "consent searches"' universal health care, adequate
>  >spending for public education, jobs and housing, a living wage and
>  >independent and effective civilian review of police misconduct
>allegations.
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we
>  >can only conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race.
>  >Therefore, vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2295
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-13 11:39:25
Subject:Re: About the good anti-Nader site and the Greens
Message:

>Dear Joe Smith,
>                I was told that you were asked to stop posting to
>RUGreens by members of that organization. I've been asked to stop
>replying to your posts on the listserve by RUGreens, and I agreed.

is there something the matter with my posts?


>Members of RUGreens have informed me they don't take you seriously.

it is the peoples political development that the greens do not take 
seriously. organizing campaigns THAT CAN BE WON is the task of the 
progressive independent movement, greens or no greens.


>Other activists involved in the NJPirgs informed me they don't take
>you seriously.

it's not me that's at issue,  the peoples strategy for successful 
independent campaigns is the discussion - i would hope that "activists" 
would take this seriously. i support pirg's voter registration efforts in 
new brunswick.


>      However, I am not to sit by and allow you to constantly attack
>the Green Party, or Ralph Nader, or anyone who disagrees with you,
>but this will be the last time I do it on the RUGreens listserve.

the green party attacks the people. the independent political movement is 
weaker because of nadir, not stronger. i will not stop pointing this out 
because it is a historic, present, and (by your attitude) future mistake 
that will cost the people their lives.


>      I will state this one last time. The Green Party is not bought
>by special interest groups, such as the Sierra Club, or the NRA. It
>is also against our the state and national by-laws to accept funding
>from millionares or billionaires from GE or Nike seeking to keep
>things the way status quo.

this is not the point. the point is that greens run candidates in elections 
that they have no chance in winning and by doing so only strengthens the 
peoples most vicous enemy (see bush '00). what did coleman's campaign 
accomplish... besides taking much needed resources and pissing them in the 
wind? the greens are not progressive because their organizing efforts 
strengthen imperialism. not only are the greens not progressive they are 
counter-progressive, making it more difficult for the people to attack 
imperialism.


>     The GPNJ does not like electing Republicans or Democrats,

neither do the people, but presently the peoples forces are not properly 
organized to launch a national or statewide offensive. and the people know 
this. the people realize they must defend themselves - which is why bush & 
schundler lost the vote. mcgreevey wasn't elected because people "like" 
electing him, he was elected to defend the people from schundler - can u 
dig?


>if you look at the rest of www.realchange.org, you will see that it is >NOT 
>an Anti-Nader website, it a dirt sheet. You will see that other
>candidates of the 2000 election had some skeltons in their closets,
>but I think I will look into other news sources before I believe all
>the statements at this website.

i just forwarded the site - i didn't look into it...

>     Ralph Nader has his faults, just like any person. Perhaps Michael
>Moore, Tim Robbins, Ani DiFranco, Patti Smith, and others were wrong
>to help on his stadium tours, maybe they weren't, it's not up to me
>to teach anyone how to think about Ralph Nader.

all those energies should have been used to beat bush. greens could have won 
a campaign for mayor, but instead they robbed the progressive independent 
movement of resources and talent.

>     For the record, I do not, nor will I ever, buy stock in defense
>companies.

invest in peoples defense - that is what mcgreevey was, the peoples only 
tool to smash schundler and defend ourselves from the most right.

>     Finally, the Green Party in New Jersey and the United States is
>only to get stronger, and only contest more elections and become
>involved in more communities. Contact the Camden County chapter about
>how work in the community, even though they do not contest elections
>at this time.

the green party is stronger? what happened to coleman...

>Perhaps you'll hate us forever, maybe you won't. All I
>ask is that you leave us alone.

you are being challenged by reality, by the conditions that we live in. i 
will not have greens falsely claiming to represent the peoples independent 
movement when what they are doing is betraying the people.


>                                                   Peacefully,
>                                                           Ray Higbee

i will forward you a piece by mao on only fighting battles that the people 
can win, otherwise you only strengthen your enemy. joe

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2296
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-13 14:02:54
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

Joe- there's a fuzzy line btwn ultra-left & out-to-lunch...did you even read 
my criticism of greens/nader that i posted? or do you just want to have a 
smack mouth boxing match...


----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, amirib@...
Subject: [nbpc] Re: Coleman for Governor
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:25:59 -0500


 >Joe- How do you expect to be taken seriously when you play these kind of
 >games.  It's stupid & would be annoying, if it wasn't so boring.

i guess your satisfied with jerkin off fortunato - a guy who calls me a
short-pants communist - who would consider himself a success if schundler
won.


 >I think I have an idea of what AB's line is.

you act like you don't have a clue. maybe you can share what you think
amiri's line is.


 >My question was raised to Cliff when he repeatedly mashed the slogans
 >"Greens are right...Peoples' War on the Right".

when/where has cliff "repeatedly mashed the slogans"? i haven't seen it, but
i would offer that you haven't done anything with these slogans but deny
them & counter organize efforts to apply them. by sucking up to republicans
& greens in the peoples campaign -yoU&S didn't go to print- and still today
with your soft line w/fortunato.


 >I asked Cliff if this implies that his line is "Peoples war
 >on the Greens."

you ask cliff this to avoid the criticism he offered to your position that
you expressed to fortunato. plus your question is ONLY an attempt to have
him say yes so you can point out how ultra-left you think he is.


 >He has consistantly avoided answering, so I'm not clear on
 >why he would mash them together.

again, when/where?


 >If you consider AB's statement "its not the structure that infuriates but
 >the right wing liberalism", you may realize that it's a question of
 >attacking this particular line within the Green Party (as elsewhere, in 
the
 >"Fake-Left").

i wouldn't realize this from your behavior. what does florida have to do
with attacking the right wing agenda of the greens? greens are right before,
during, & after florida, so what is you agenda with this line of criticism.
what happens when joegreen says your right, nadir shouldn't have campaigned
florida? that doesn't solve anything, does it?


 >Instead of goofing around, wasting time, why not answer the question or 
ask
 >Cliff to & then we can have a real discussion.    -Matt

who's goofing around & wasting time? who's the one jerkin around w/greens,
not me & cliff. let's revisit a section of your earlier postings:
 >At such a time, it would be necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens >are
 >right" line, as it would be a different party with a different
 >leading ideology. It would still not be a replacement for the *mass*
 >independant party that must & will eventually emerge from the united-
 >front. (Unfortunately, the Greens think they are now  that)

what do you mean by, "*mass* independent party that... will eventually
emerge from the united-front"? do you mean you "will eventually" start
organizing for this party? how will this party emerge besides "eventually"?

joe

 >
 >
 >----Original Message Follows----
 >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
 >To: amirib@..., nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, 
vivaohio@...
 >Subject: [nbpc] Fwd:  Re: Coleman for Governor
 >Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:28:44 -0500
 >
 >amiri, matt wants to know if you have the lines:
 >	1. peoples war on the right &
 >	2. greens are right...
 >is your line peoples war on the greens?
 >
 >
 >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >
 >"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"AB
 >  >
 >  >It would be more interesting if you answered the question directly: "Is
 >  >*your* line peoples war on the greens?" rather than more cryptic
 >  >cross-polinated sloganeering.
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
 >
 >'shd be' idealism is not the point.
 >everyone 'shd be'. but in reality there is class struggle.
 >
 >u&s line is: greens are right.
 >tell me what is u&s' line re: the right?
 >
 >peoples' war on the right.
 >combat liberalism.
 >
 >  >
 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >
 >The Greens should become an ally in the UF.
 >
 >Are you saying that your line is "People's war against the Green Party?"
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
 >  >  >
 >  >  >yr conciliatory line is to reconcile w/ greens on basis that they
 >merely
 >  >admit a particular 'mistake', which will supposedly 'transform' them
 >into
 >  >an ally in the revolutionary democratic united front, thereby earning 
yr
 >  >endorsement of 'vote' & 'trust'. (in nwk, you shd push this. dont be
 >  >encouraging these reactionaries in nb)
 >  >  >
 >greens enabled bush. as did republicans.
 >
 >u&s' line is: greens are right.
 >
 >yr argument is w/ u&s.
 >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >  >  >  >
 >My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every
 >organization has competing ideologies.
 >  >  >  >
 >I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an out.
 >That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--
 >
 >Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?
 >
 >Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans
 >also, for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)
 >
 >you lost me...MS
 >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
 >  >  >  >
 >u&s line: greens are right.
 >
 >yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party
 >w/ a "different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the
 >non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".
 >
 >("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)
 >
 >yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for
 >  >their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose... profound.
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
 >  >  >  >combat liberalism.
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since
 >an
 >  >honest (& I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the
 >  >Nader'00 farce would have to include an internal transformation of the
 >  >party & bring them into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for
 >  >revolutionary democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them
 >a
 >  >better alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic
 >  >Machine in NB where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, 
it
 >  >would be necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as
 >it
 >  >would be a different party with a different leading ideology. It would
 >  >still not be a replacement for the *mass* independant party that must &
 >  >will eventually emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the 
Greens
 >  >think they are now  that)
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in
 >  >  >  >facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we
 >  >humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green Party, this is 
one
 >  >progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office" for lack of
 >  >trust, to start."   -ms
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for
 >  >  >reactionary greenback$, "progressive"?
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >u&s position is: greens are right.
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
 >  >  >  >  >combat liberalism.
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >cs
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...
 >  >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
 >  >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest
 >assesment
 >  >of the role of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the
 >  >disasterous results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by
 >the
 >  >Green Party, this is one progressive that will never vote Green for
 >"higher
 >  >office" for lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly
 >  >insisted there was no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the 
campaign,
 >&
 >  >with Nader campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida 
where
 >  >Nader carried 92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election
 >(a
 >  >gross violation of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce
 >Afrin's
 >  >less-slick echo of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are 
merely
 >  >spoon-fed only defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign"
 >rather
 >  >than real substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces
 >  >(including Nader himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the
 >  >right-wing Bush family oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring
 >leading
 >  >us to economic disaster and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been
 >warning
 >  >the Greens, et al. about this scenario since being brow-beat for
 >suggesting
 >  >Bradley was a better dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect 
for
 >  >the intentions of many Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party
 >  >hasn't yet figured it out, my vote will reflect this. & for those who
 >like
 >  >to quote Mao, recall his words on "intentions" (On Practice/On
 >  >Contradictions)--that the "truest criteria with which to judge
 >intentions
 >  >are *material results*.
 >  >  >  >  >  >Unity & Struggle,
 >  >  >  >  >  >Matthew Smith
 >  >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >  >  >  >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
 >  >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey
 >holding
 >  >a double-digit lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine
 >  >points, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote
 >  >their conscience and cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green
 >Party
 >  >for Governor. Jerry is the only candidate putting forward the
 >progressive
 >  >agenda: a ban on "consent searches"' universal health care, adequate
 >  >spending for public education, jobs and housing, a living wage and
 >  >independent and effective civilian review of police misconduct
 >allegations.
 >  >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, 
we
 >  >can only conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this 
race.
 >  >Therefore, vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________
 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >
 >
 >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
 >
 >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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 >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2297
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-13 15:17:42
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: revolutionaries for mcgreevey
Message:

matt, where in this does it say to the greens they are right and therefore 
greens are organizing against the peoples war on the right. greens 
strengthen imperialism. they say yoU&S is wrong and that the people are 
stronger than imperialism. greens are right. the green "concept" is 
destroyed by their actions which weakens the peoples democratic struggle. 
fuck the greens. greens openly attack U&S revolutionary strategy and betray 
the people.WHY DIDN'T THE U&S ISSUE GO TO PRINT IN 2000 ELECTION?

build the Peoples Democratic Workers Party! joe

matt's original response to Joe Fortunato:
Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest assesment of the role 
of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bushs'election & the disasterous results 
that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green Party, this is 
one progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office" for lack of 
trust, to start.
  While Nader & Greens repeatedly insisted there was no difference btwn 
"Bore & Gush" during the campaign, & with Nader campaigning throughout swing 
states (*including Florida where Nader carried 92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks 
leading up tho the election (a gross violation of his
campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce Afrin's less-slick echo of
Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely spoon-fed only
defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" rather than real
substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces (including
Nader himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the right-wing Bush
family oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring leading us to
economic disaster and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been warning the
Greens, et al. about this scenario since being brow-beat for suggesting
Bradley was a better dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for the 
intentions of many Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party >hasn't 
yet figured it out, my vote will reflect this. & for those who like to quote 
Mao, recall his words on "intentions" (On Practice/On Contradictions)--that 
the "truest criteria with which to judge intentions are *material results*.

 >  >  >  >  >  >Unity & Struggle,
 >  >  >  >  >  >Matthew Smith
 >  >  >  >  >  >


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>

Joe- there's a fuzzy line btwn ultra-left & out-to-lunch...did you even read 
my criticism of greens/nader that i posted? or do you just want to have a 
smack mouth boxing match...
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, amirib@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:25:59 -0500
>
>
>  >Joe- How do you expect to be taken seriously when you play these kind of
>  >games.  It's stupid & would be annoying, if it wasn't so boring.
>
>i guess your satisfied with jerkin off fortunato - a guy who calls me a
>short-pants communist - who would consider himself a success if schundler
>won.
>
>
>  >I think I have an idea of what AB's line is.
>
>you act like you don't have a clue. maybe you can share what you think
>amiri's line is.
>
>
>  >My question was raised to Cliff when he repeatedly mashed the slogans
>  >"Greens are right...Peoples' War on the Right".
>
>when/where has cliff "repeatedly mashed the slogans"? i haven't seen it, 
>but
>i would offer that you haven't done anything with these slogans but deny
>them & counter organize efforts to apply them. by sucking up to republicans
>& greens in the peoples campaign -yoU&S didn't go to print- and still today
>with your soft line w/fortunato.
>
>
>  >I asked Cliff if this implies that his line is "Peoples war
>  >on the Greens."
>
>you ask cliff this to avoid the criticism he offered to your position that
>you expressed to fortunato. plus your question is ONLY an attempt to have
>him say yes so you can point out how ultra-left you think he is.
>
>
>  >He has consistantly avoided answering, so I'm not clear on
>  >why he would mash them together.
>
>again, when/where?
>
>
>  >If you consider AB's statement "its not the structure that infuriates 
>but
>  >the right wing liberalism", you may realize that it's a question of
>  >attacking this particular line within the Green Party (as elsewhere, in
>the
>  >"Fake-Left").
>
>i wouldn't realize this from your behavior. what does florida have to do
>with attacking the right wing agenda of the greens? greens are right 
>before,
>during, & after florida, so what is you agenda with this line of criticism.
>what happens when joegreen says your right, nadir shouldn't have campaigned
>florida? that doesn't solve anything, does it?
>
>
>  >Instead of goofing around, wasting time, why not answer the question or
>ask
>  >Cliff to & then we can have a real discussion.    -Matt
>
>who's goofing around & wasting time? who's the one jerkin around w/greens,
>not me & cliff. let's revisit a section of your earlier postings:
>  >At such a time, it would be necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens 
> >are
>  >right" line, as it would be a different party with a different
>  >leading ideology. It would still not be a replacement for the *mass*
>  >independant party that must & will eventually emerge from the united-
>  >front. (Unfortunately, the Greens think they are now  that)
>
>what do you mean by, "*mass* independent party that... will eventually
>emerge from the united-front"? do you mean you "will eventually" start
>organizing for this party? how will this party emerge besides "eventually"?
>
>joe
>
>  >
>  >
>  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>  >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>  >To: amirib@..., nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com,
>vivaohio@...
>  >Subject: [nbpc] Fwd:  Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:28:44 -0500
>  >
>  >amiri, matt wants to know if you have the lines:
>  >	1. peoples war on the right &
>  >	2. greens are right...
>  >is your line peoples war on the greens?
>  >
>  >
>  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >
>  >"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"AB
>  >  >
>  >  >It would be more interesting if you answered the question directly: 
>"Is
>  >  >*your* line peoples war on the greens?" rather than more cryptic
>  >  >cross-polinated sloganeering.
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >
>  >'shd be' idealism is not the point.
>  >everyone 'shd be'. but in reality there is class struggle.
>  >
>  >u&s line is: greens are right.
>  >tell me what is u&s' line re: the right?
>  >
>  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >combat liberalism.
>  >
>  >  >
>  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >
>  >The Greens should become an ally in the UF.
>  >
>  >Are you saying that your line is "People's war against the Green Party?"
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >yr conciliatory line is to reconcile w/ greens on basis that they
>  >merely
>  >  >admit a particular 'mistake', which will supposedly 'transform' them
>  >into
>  >  >an ally in the revolutionary democratic united front, thereby earning
>yr
>  >  >endorsement of 'vote' & 'trust'. (in nwk, you shd push this. dont be
>  >  >encouraging these reactionaries in nb)
>  >  >  >
>  >greens enabled bush. as did republicans.
>  >
>  >u&s' line is: greens are right.
>  >
>  >yr argument is w/ u&s.
>  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >  >  >  >
>  >My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every
>  >organization has competing ideologies.
>  >  >  >  >
>  >I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an 
>out.
>  >That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--
>  >
>  >Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?
>  >
>  >Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans
>  >also, for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)
>  >
>  >you lost me...MS
>  >
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >  >  >  >
>  >u&s line: greens are right.
>  >
>  >yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party
>  >w/ a "different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the
>  >non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".
>  >
>  >("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)
>  >
>  >yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for
>  >  >their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose... profound.
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >  >  >  >combat liberalism.
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion 
>since
>  >an
>  >  >honest (& I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of 
>the
>  >  >Nader'00 farce would have to include an internal transformation of 
>the
>  >  >party & bring them into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & 
>for
>  >  >revolutionary democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider 
>them
>  >a
>  >  >better alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic
>  >  >Machine in NB where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time,
>it
>  >  >would be necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, 
>as
>  >it
>  >  >would be a different party with a different leading ideology. It 
>would
>  >  >still not be a replacement for the *mass* independant party that must 
>&
>  >  >will eventually emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the
>Greens
>  >  >think they are now  that)
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader 
>in
>  >  >  >  >facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we
>  >  >humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green Party, this is
>one
>  >  >progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office" for lack 
>of
>  >  >trust, to start."   -ms
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for
>  >  >  >reactionary greenback$, "progressive"?
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >u&s position is: greens are right.
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >  >  >  >  >combat liberalism.
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >cs
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...
>  >  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
>  >  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest
>  >assesment
>  >  >of the role of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the
>  >  >disasterous results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward 
>by
>  >the
>  >  >Green Party, this is one progressive that will never vote Green for
>  >"higher
>  >  >office" for lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly
>  >  >insisted there was no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the
>campaign,
>  >&
>  >  >with Nader campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida
>where
>  >  >Nader carried 92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the 
>election
>  >(a
>  >  >gross violation of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce
>  >Afrin's
>  >  >less-slick echo of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are
>merely
>  >  >spoon-fed only defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign"
>  >rather
>  >  >than real substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces
>  >  >(including Nader himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the
>  >  >right-wing Bush family oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring
>  >leading
>  >  >us to economic disaster and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been
>  >warning
>  >  >the Greens, et al. about this scenario since being brow-beat for
>  >suggesting
>  >  >Bradley was a better dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect
>for
>  >  >the intentions of many Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party
>  >  >hasn't yet figured it out, my vote will reflect this. & for those who
>  >like
>  >  >to quote Mao, recall his words on "intentions" (On Practice/On
>  >  >Contradictions)--that the "truest criteria with which to judge
>  >intentions
>  >  >are *material results*.
>  >  >  >  >  >  >Unity & Struggle,
>  >  >  >  >  >  >Matthew Smith
>  >  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >  >  >  >  >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
>  >  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey
>  >holding
>  >  >a double-digit lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine
>  >  >points, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not 
>vote
>  >  >their conscience and cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green
>  >Party
>  >  >for Governor. Jerry is the only candidate putting forward the
>  >progressive
>  >  >agenda: a ban on "consent searches"' universal health care, adequate
>  >  >spending for public education, jobs and housing, a living wage and
>  >  >independent and effective civilian review of police misconduct
>  >allegations.
>  >  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions,
>we
>  >  >can only conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this
>race.
>  >  >Therefore, vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
>  >
>  >_________________________________________________________________
>  >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2298
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-11-14 09:32:43
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: In Sweeping Campus Canvasses, U.S. Checks on Mideast Students
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


knock, knock, knock...

can_bush@...


In Sweeping Campus Canvasses, U.S. Checks on Mideast Students

November 12, 2001 

By JACQUES STEINBERG


Investigators have contacted administrators at more than 200
colleges to collect information about students from Middle
Eastern countries.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/national/12STUD.html?ex=1006748363&ei=1&en=20ed80fd399ec7c3



HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2299
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-14 11:56:45
Subject:Re: Why's
Message:

all answers to matt's questions are in order below this brief statement

sword's line is:
to apply revolutionary democratic struggle/strategy to defend, build, & 
support independent political campaigns where they can win & where they will 
serve the people.
	-ras baraka may2002
	-nb peoples campaign nov.2002

to pin the democrats on the republicans in elections that only one of
the two can win.

to build the Peoples Democratic Workers Party as put forward by U&S.

to expose all opportunist counterfeit Fake Left people, positions, and 
organizations.

to embrace and put forward U&S' call "revolutionaries unite".

to unite with and to put forward U&S at the highest level possible, sword 
maintains that our edit board participation would only strengthen U&S.

why do you lay down to the greens over & over matt? they are not 
revolutionaries, they are not progressive... they are right wing frauds. & 
if you are going to agree that you consider them to be right, why didn't YOU 
print U&S 2000? -joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>

>Cliff & Joe-  at the risk of doing an injustice to a great poem, i find the 
>form effective:

as lond as you answer my question.

>Why do you avoid the questions I raised? (Is "Peoples War on Greens" your 
>line?)

at first i thought you were just an idiot for asking. the answer is no that 
is not sword's line. attacking the greens is a small, but necessary, aspect 
of the peoples war on the right. not because sword wants to attack greens 
because we are ulta-left, but because the greens put themselves in the line 
of fire. the most dangerous of enemies is someone you think is on your side 
- that is why the greens must be exposed ruthlessly along with your undying 
support of them. i was fine with organizing to defeat bush but the greens 
say i'm wrong and bush is now president & you're the one that didn't press 
print.

>Why do you answer with more questions & accusations but not answers?

who's the one with all the questions? i got answers... but you should take 
the time to go back and answer my questions from the other post which you 
replied to with your threat.

>Why do you want to look for something to fight about, rather than explore 
>what we can come to agreement on?

you sign "Unity & Struggle" to your opportunist, non-revolutionary position 
on why you won't vote green. i've heard democrats offer more
progressive criticisms of the greens.

>Why do you seem like you want to pick a fight more than resolve anything?

who is picking a fight? resolve anything like what? what do you want to 
resolve...

>Why do these things keep going in circles?

because for the last six years you have been sabotoging U&S' production, 
U&S' distribution, & U&S' line and i don't have any reason to think that you 
have or will stop. you blame njfo because you didn't press the print button 
in 2000. you blame fraud because you upheld the boycott position in 96. you 
sat thousands of U&S papers in YOUR hale st apt that YOU wouldn't let me 
distribute and that were never distributed by you. you built up republican 
curtis for these same six years into a city council candidate in '00 that 
effectively got frank bright onto the NB housing authority. and today you 
claim to represent the same trend as amiri even though since you've known 
amiri all you have done is sabatoge and disrupt his paper and revolutionary 
line.

i am not the one going in circles. where is your line on the RED collective 
- who they are & where did they come from & what is there relationship to 
U&S, revolutionary democratic struggle (& strategy), & the NB republicans.

>Why do we consistantly fail to comunicate on email?

i am communicating my ideas...

>Why don't these line struggles get resolved on email? ever?

what is the line struggle you are looking to resolve?

>Why do we go on like this on email, then never address any of this in 
>person like it's not there?

you throw me & cliff out of every organization i argue with you in. what do 
you suggest i do? i am willing to discuss and argue my positions, would you 
like to set a date or event.

>Why do these debates take the form of a disfunctional family squabble? 
>often...

i don't see it.

>Why did Joe invent a senario that I asked AB a question that I really asked 
>Cliff?

because your question is with amiri/U&S:
does peoples war on the right & greens are right (both lines put forward by 
U&S) = peoples war on the greens.
you have not shown me where cliff has "mashed" these lines...

>Why did Joe respond with smack mouth verbal boxing when I ask him why?

"or do you just want to have a
smack mouth boxing match..."

what does smack mouth boxing mean to you?

>Why did Joe pretend that my pointing this out was a threat to him?

i do not pretend anything, don't bring shit up talking about smackin people.

>Why do you & Joe keep sending these sad intercoursed to Amiri & other 
>people who probably don't have this kind of time to waste?

why do you care?

>Why do you mash "Greens are right...Peoples War on the Right" & then refuse 
>to acknowledge if your line is "Peoples War on the Greens"?

what is your craze with this matt? where has cliff or myself mashed these 
slogans? reality points out that the greens are right and therefor must be 
absorbed just as all right organizations into the peoples war on the right. 
that is why U&S has them as part of the fake left umbrella. what do you 
think?

>Why do you then act as if this contrived formulation is U&S' position?

when did i act as if this is U&S' position?

>Why do you say that we shouldn't look for revolutionary democratic 
>tendencies within the Greens to unite with while being critical of the 
>right-liberal line?

you are the only person i know that says there is anything revolutionary 
about the greens. U&S SAYS "GREENS ARE RIGHT"

>Why do you equate this to being "conciliatory" & "holding hands" of the 
>right?

because matt, GREENS ARE RIGHT. they attack U&S' revolutionary strategy
and say that the people are stronger than imperialism. but you falsely
put forward that there are revolutionary democratic alliances that you
can make. where are the RD alliances but in your head?

>Why do you not respond to AB's statement pointing out that it's the line 
>that should be attacked.

i do not understand what you are asking.
"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"AB

>Why do you not see that I was criticizing the same right-liberal line that 
>you strangely claim that i was upholding when this unproductive (yet again) 
>exchange started?

because you weren't. you never told fortunato that he is right wing in your 
response to his post. nor did you say greens are right.

>Why do you feel that you have to keep explaining my positions to Amiri, as 
>if I don't have a working relationship with the man?

because you lie and blame others for your mistakes once nobody's around to 
say otherwise.

>Why do you think he can't figure me out on his own?

who said he couldn't?

>Why do you feel that this form of debate has to do with "unity" as the 
>principle aspect of the contradiction: unity & struggle?

it doesn't. you have for years and continue to disrupt unity with me & cliff 
to serve your own opportunist ends. i am just pointing things out as they go 
from here on.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2300
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-14 13:59:30
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Why's
Message:

Joe- thanks for responding.  i have my own ideas for some of the answers to 
these questions that will obviously differ from yours, but thats how it 
goes--

For instance, as to why we never resolve these lines on email,i think is 
because this forum is totally removed from practice.

AS for why "mash"-sloganeering "Greens are right...people's war on right" 
leads to the conclusion "peoples war on the greens" because in math, a 
formula that says if a=b & b=c, necessarily implies that a=c.
Since ideology doesn't stem from slogans, it is helpful to make your 
postions clear rather than wave slogans.

Also, because my position, and what I interpret from AB's statement
"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"
is that it is a question of lines, not 'structures'...so I unite with SWORD 
in opposing right-wing liberalism within the Green Party, as elsewhere.  I 
disagree with SWORD when you attack people for attempting to unite with 
Revolutionary Democratic tendencies within the membership.  This is 
ultra-leftism.  Joe, you said "i do not understand what you are asking."  
Well, I hope its more clear, as this is the heart of the matter.

As for my raising the question to Cliff, it was to Cliff.  Not to AB.  This 
isn't the first time you used this tactic.  It just creates confusion and 
resolves nothing.

>- that is why the greens must be exposed ruthlessly along with your undying 
>support of them.

What in the world are you talking about?  Material reality does not follow 
the imagination, principally.

>you throw me & cliff out of every organization i argue with you in. what do 
>you suggest i do? i am willing to discuss and argue my positions, would you 
>like to set a date or event.

I think this is part of why we have a difficult time organizing 
together...we fought with NBPC & NJFO to retract SWORD's ban--admitting the 
error--to the point of a split with them.  If you can't acknowledge this, 
how can we ever lay a real basis for unity?  (I'd really appreciate a 
response to this)  However, we must agree to disagree on the *history* 
regarding Curtis.  The accustations of "sabotage" are as out-to-lunch as 
ever & not worth addressing anymore.

 >Why do these debates take the form of a disfunctional family squabble?
 >often... "i don't see it."

It's pretty obvious to alot of people...but whatever.

 >Why did Joe respond with smack mouth verbal boxing when I ask him why?
 > "or do you just want to have a smack mouth boxing match..."

Give me a break, Joe- this was a reference to your tone to me, not a threat. 
  Sorry to create that misunderstanding.


 >Why do you mash "Greens are right...Peoples War on the Right" & then 
refuse
 >to acknowledge if your line is "Peoples War on the Greens"?

>(Joe wrote:) what is your craze with this matt? where has cliff or myself 
>mashed these slogans? reality points out that the greens are right and 
>therefor must be absorbed just as all right organizations into the peoples 
>war on the right. that is why U&S has them as part of the fake left 
>umbrella. what do you think?

Again, we agree that the Green Party must be struggled against when it 
follows right-liberalism & objectively serves the goals of 
right-imperialism.  But they are not imperialists.  Therefor, we must look 
for & embrace revo-dem tendencies within the party (dialectically speaking, 
it must exist) & uphold those tendencies, while encouraging the party to 
embrace our call for a left-bloc against fascism.  Our lines do not follow 
our slogans!  & the *sloganeering-style* formula "Greens are right...Peoples 
war against the right" that came repeatedly from Cliff leads to the 
conclusion that you are calling for "Peoples War against the Greens".   Is 
this a stretch ("idiotic"?)since at the same time I was attacked by Cliff 
for attempting to reach out to Rev-Dem tendencies within the membership?  
It's an obvious conclusion. It's worse still since Cliff's written form 
seemed to attribute this ultra-left formula to U&S.

BTW- has Cliff answered the question yet himself?


   >Why do you not see that I was criticizing the same right-liberal line 
that  >you strangely claim that i was upholding when this unproductive (yet 
again) >exchange started?

 >(Joe) because you weren't. you never told fortunato that he is right wing 
in your response to his post. nor did you say greens are right.

I argued a position critical of right-liberalism within the Green Party with 
historic references & facts, if you read my post.  I don't argue from 
slogans, which is simplistic & misleading (see Mao) & not uncommon on this 
egroup list.

 >Why do you feel that you have to keep explaining my positions to Amiri, as
 >if I don't have a working relationship with the man?

(Joe) because you lie and blame others for your mistakes once nobody's 
around to say otherwise.

That's ridiculous.

 >Why do you think he can't figure me out on his own?

(Joe) who said he couldn't?

You seem to think that you need to explain who I am to him frequently. 
What's strange (& amusing, only because it's so strange)is who you think I 
am.... but again, there's too much been removed from practice to sort it 
out, I think.

 >Why do you feel that this form of debate has to do with "unity" as the
 >principle aspect of the contradiction: unity & struggle?

(Joe) it doesn't.

It should.

-Matt

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2301
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-14 17:46:34
Subject:Re: Why's
Message:

respond to my entire post.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, keithjoseph@..., 
>cliffsmith69@..., tamaradahan@..., amirib@...
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: Why's
>Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:59:30
>
>Joe- thanks for responding.  i have my own ideas for some of the answers to
>these questions that will obviously differ from yours, but thats how it
>goes--
>
>For instance, as to why we never resolve these lines on email,i think is
>because this forum is totally removed from practice.
>
>AS for why "mash"-sloganeering "Greens are right...people's war on right"
>leads to the conclusion "peoples war on the greens" because in math, a
>formula that says if a=b & b=c, necessarily implies that a=c.
>Since ideology doesn't stem from slogans, it is helpful to make your
>postions clear rather than wave slogans.
>
>Also, because my position, and what I interpret from AB's statement
>"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"
>is that it is a question of lines, not 'structures'...so I unite with SWORD
>in opposing right-wing liberalism within the Green Party, as elsewhere.  I
>disagree with SWORD when you attack people for attempting to unite with
>Revolutionary Democratic tendencies within the membership.  This is
>ultra-leftism.  Joe, you said "i do not understand what you are asking."
>Well, I hope its more clear, as this is the heart of the matter.
>
>As for my raising the question to Cliff, it was to Cliff.  Not to AB.  This
>isn't the first time you used this tactic.  It just creates confusion and
>resolves nothing.
>
> >- that is why the greens must be exposed ruthlessly along with your 
>undying
> >support of them.
>
>What in the world are you talking about?  Material reality does not follow
>the imagination, principally.
>
> >you throw me & cliff out of every organization i argue with you in. what 
>do
> >you suggest i do? i am willing to discuss and argue my positions, would 
>you
> >like to set a date or event.
>
>I think this is part of why we have a difficult time organizing
>together...we fought with NBPC & NJFO to retract SWORD's ban--admitting the
>error--to the point of a split with them.  If you can't acknowledge this,
>how can we ever lay a real basis for unity?  (I'd really appreciate a
>response to this)  However, we must agree to disagree on the *history*
>regarding Curtis.  The accustations of "sabotage" are as out-to-lunch as
>ever & not worth addressing anymore.
>
>  >Why do these debates take the form of a disfunctional family squabble?
>  >often... "i don't see it."
>
>It's pretty obvious to alot of people...but whatever.
>
>  >Why did Joe respond with smack mouth verbal boxing when I ask him why?
>  > "or do you just want to have a smack mouth boxing match..."
>
>Give me a break, Joe- this was a reference to your tone to me, not a 
>threat.
>   Sorry to create that misunderstanding.
>
>
>  >Why do you mash "Greens are right...Peoples War on the Right" & then
>refuse
>  >to acknowledge if your line is "Peoples War on the Greens"?
>
> >(Joe wrote:) what is your craze with this matt? where has cliff or myself
> >mashed these slogans? reality points out that the greens are right and
> >therefor must be absorbed just as all right organizations into the 
>peoples
> >war on the right. that is why U&S has them as part of the fake left
> >umbrella. what do you think?
>
>Again, we agree that the Green Party must be struggled against when it
>follows right-liberalism & objectively serves the goals of
>right-imperialism.  But they are not imperialists.  Therefor, we must look
>for & embrace revo-dem tendencies within the party (dialectically speaking,
>it must exist) & uphold those tendencies, while encouraging the party to
>embrace our call for a left-bloc against fascism.  Our lines do not follow
>our slogans!  & the *sloganeering-style* formula "Greens are 
>right...Peoples
>war against the right" that came repeatedly from Cliff leads to the
>conclusion that you are calling for "Peoples War against the Greens".   Is
>this a stretch ("idiotic"?)since at the same time I was attacked by Cliff
>for attempting to reach out to Rev-Dem tendencies within the membership?
>It's an obvious conclusion. It's worse still since Cliff's written form
>seemed to attribute this ultra-left formula to U&S.
>
>BTW- has Cliff answered the question yet himself?
>
>
>    >Why do you not see that I was criticizing the same right-liberal line
>that  >you strangely claim that i was upholding when this unproductive (yet
>again) >exchange started?
>
>  >(Joe) because you weren't. you never told fortunato that he is right 
>wing
>in your response to his post. nor did you say greens are right.
>
>I argued a position critical of right-liberalism within the Green Party 
>with
>historic references & facts, if you read my post.  I don't argue from
>slogans, which is simplistic & misleading (see Mao) & not uncommon on this
>egroup list.
>
>  >Why do you feel that you have to keep explaining my positions to Amiri, 
>as
>  >if I don't have a working relationship with the man?
>
>(Joe) because you lie and blame others for your mistakes once nobody's
>around to say otherwise.
>
>That's ridiculous.
>
>  >Why do you think he can't figure me out on his own?
>
>(Joe) who said he couldn't?
>
>You seem to think that you need to explain who I am to him frequently.
>What's strange (& amusing, only because it's so strange)is who you think I
>am.... but again, there's too much been removed from practice to sort it
>out, I think.
>
>  >Why do you feel that this form of debate has to do with "unity" as the
>  >principle aspect of the contradiction: unity & struggle?
>
>(Joe) it doesn't.
>
>It should.
>
>-Matt
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2302
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-14 20:41:22
Subject:Fwd: [nbpc] Re: Why's
Message:



----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>

Subject: [nbpc] Re: Why's
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:46:34 -0500

>respond to my entire post.



how's this:


 >
 >
 >  >My question was raised to Cliff when he repeatedly mashed the slogans
 >  >"Greens are right...Peoples' War on the Right".
 >
 >when/where has cliff "repeatedly mashed the slogans"? i haven't seen it,


See my last post


 >i would offer that you haven't done anything with these slogans but deny
 >them & counter organize efforts to apply them. by sucking up to 
republicans
 >& greens in the peoples campaign


I think we've beat this horse to death.


-yoU&S didn't go to print- and still today
 >with your soft line w/fortunato.


Same. See my last post

>
 >
 >  >I asked Cliff if this implies that his line is "Peoples war
 >  >on the Greens."
 >
 >you ask cliff this to avoid the criticism he offered to your position that
 >you expressed to fortunato. plus your question is ONLY an attempt to have
 >him say yes so you can point out how ultra-left you think he is.
 >

That's interesting speculation.  I'm still wondering what Cliff's line is.  
Btw- if your line isn't "Peoples war against the Greens" then why the 
hostility at the idea of embracing revo-democratic tendencies within the 
membership where they exist while being critical of right-liberalism?



 >
 >  >If you consider AB's statement "its not the structure that infuriates 
but
 >  >the right wing liberalism", you may realize that it's a question of
 >  >attacking this particular line within the Green Party (as elsewhere, in
 >the
 >  >"Fake-Left").
 >
 >i wouldn't realize this from your behavior.


My behavior?!


>what does florida have to do
 >with attacking the right wing agenda of the greens?


Material results are the best judge of intentions.


greens are right before,
 >during, & after florida, so what is you agenda with this line of 
criticism.


I think I've explained it...


 >what happens when joegreen says your right, nadir shouldn't have 
campaigned
 >florida? that doesn't solve anything, does it?
 >
 >

How about what happens if they acknowledge that running Nadir was a 
right-liberal error & helped Bush win the election?  What happens if there 
is a sharpened line struggle within the Green party along this line?  What 
happens if the Revolutionary democratic line prevails?  What happens if they 
agree to join a left-bloc united-front against fascism?



 >
 >what do you mean by, "*mass* independent party that... will eventually
 >emerge from the united-front"? do you mean you "will eventually" start
 >organizing for this party?

This is a semantical argument


 >how will this party emerge besides "eventually"?


By putting unity before struggle & struggle as the *basis* for advancing 
unity


Looking foward to your reply to this & my last post.

To reiterate: if your line isn't "Peoples war against the Greens" then why 
the hostility at the idea of embracing revo-democratic tendencies within the 
membership where they exist while being critical of right-liberalism?

-Matt


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2303
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-14 20:55:55
Subject:Fwd: [poprogress] Fwd: Gil Doin' Time
Message:


@ c.2001 The Boston Globe@

Gil Scott-Heron is sitting in a jail cell, and I want to say it's because he
spoke too much truth for too long.
>I want to convince myself that a judge last week sentenced him to prison 
>because for 30 years he has been the teacher, preacher, and poet of black 
>America, and that's what happens to brothers who are intelligent, 
>outspoken, and dangerous to a system that seeks to muzzle and minimize its 
>critics. I need to believe that this is the fierce tax paid by those who 
>rage against the machine. But Gil Scott-Heron is not a political prisoner, 
>and there is nothing noble in his imprisonment. Like too many before him, 
>he's been brought low by drugs. Scott-Heron, 52, was sentenced to one to 
>three years after a felony conviction for possession of cocaine. He could 
>have avoided doing time; all he had to do was keep a promise made last July 
>to get himself into a drug-treatment program after returning from a 
>European tour. But he broke his promise, didn't get the help he needs to 
>corral a years-long addiction to crack, and even disregarded his September 
>court date. By the time he showed up in court last week, New York State 
>Supreme Court Justice Carol Berkman was fed up. "You've had all these 
>opportunities to help yourself," she told Scott-Heron, "and you just don't 
>seem to care." We can accept our prophets as martyrs, but not as junkies. 
>Yes, we'd heard and read the stories about Scott-Heron's disintegration 
>into a toothless, hollowed-out mess. But it was hard to fathom that a man 
>who warned of substances in songs like "The Bottle" and "Angel Dust" would 
>tumble into the same stupid trap that had claimed so many. For before he 
>squandered his gifts in a crack-pipe haze, Scott-Heron made music that 
>could soothe your soul or save your life. If, as Chuck D once famously 
>said, rap music was "black America's CNN," then Scott-Heron was its Walter 
>Cronkite. With a series of provocative albums and songs challenging 
>injustice, racism, and apartheid, he emerged as the most trenchant 
>commentator on America's roiling sociopolitical brew in the 1970s and 
>1980s. Whether he sang or recited his words, they scorched the 
>consciousness and ignited dormant minds. Often, his titles alone said more 
>than other songwriters could muster in an entire song. "Whitey on the Moon" 
>contrasted America's obsession with space travel with inner cities 
>withering from neglect. "H2Ogate Blues" deftly ripped disgraced President 
>Richard Nixon, while "We Almost Lost Detroit" considered the possibility of 
>obliteration in a nuclear accident. Calling himself "an interpreter of the 
>black experience," the Chicago-born Scott-Heron teamed with his college 
>pal, pianist Brian Jackson. Their combination of spare jazz-soul riffs and 
>fiery rhetoric reminiscent of Amiri Baraka and Don L. Lee proved a potent 
>mixture that attracted jazz, rock, and R & B audiences. His best-known 
>composition, "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised," was a showcase for his 
>whip-smart wit, brimming with pop-culture references to Willie Mays and 
>Bullwinkle, Jackie Onassis and Johnny Cash. It remains an anthem of 
>defiance, the feverish sound of oppression, frustration, and upheaval. That 
>song, and indeed most of his work, became the blueprint for rap music, and 
>Scott-Heron is now recognized as one of the progenitors of hip-hop. His 
>influence is most apparent in (among others) Chuck D, Michael Franti of 
>Spearhead, Black Thought of the Roots, and Zack de la Rocha, formerly of 
>Rage Against the Machine. He remains the touchstone for angry, righteous 
>thinkers, and those convinced their gift for words should not become 
>poison-for-profit. And now, Scott-Heron is just another junkie in a jail 
>cell. Once an urban-America John the Baptist, he has become a Judas 
>betraying his talents, his body, and his soul. Though Scott-Heron has 
>always inexplicably denied having a drug problem, perhaps he can now get 
>the help he desperately needs because we still desperately need him. With 
>crisis and chaos choking the air, we need, more than ever, Scott-Heron's 
>brilliant voice and electric spirit, even as we now sadly recognize that, 
>for many years, it was our great street savior who needed saving most of 
>all. NYT-11-06-01 1318EST


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2304
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-14 22:43:38
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Why's
Message:

"AS for why "mash"-sloganeering "Greens are right...people's war on right" 
leads to the conclusion "peoples war on the greens" because in math, a 
formula that says if a=b & b=c, necessarily implies that a=c."
-ms

this from the 'dialectician' who paints me 'mechanical'...




>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, keithjoseph@..., 
>cliffsmith69@..., tamaradahan@..., amirib@...
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: Why's
>Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:59:30
>
>Joe- thanks for responding.  i have my own ideas for some of the answers to
>these questions that will obviously differ from yours, but thats how it
>goes--
>
>For instance, as to why we never resolve these lines on email,i think is
>because this forum is totally removed from practice.
>
>AS for why "mash"-sloganeering "Greens are right...people's war on right"
>leads to the conclusion "peoples war on the greens" because in math, a
>formula that says if a=b & b=c, necessarily implies that a=c.
>Since ideology doesn't stem from slogans, it is helpful to make your
>postions clear rather than wave slogans.
>
>Also, because my position, and what I interpret from AB's statement
>"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"
>is that it is a question of lines, not 'structures'...so I unite with SWORD
>in opposing right-wing liberalism within the Green Party, as elsewhere.  I
>disagree with SWORD when you attack people for attempting to unite with
>Revolutionary Democratic tendencies within the membership.  This is
>ultra-leftism.  Joe, you said "i do not understand what you are asking."
>Well, I hope its more clear, as this is the heart of the matter.
>
>As for my raising the question to Cliff, it was to Cliff.  Not to AB.  This
>isn't the first time you used this tactic.  It just creates confusion and
>resolves nothing.
>
> >- that is why the greens must be exposed ruthlessly along with your 
>undying
> >support of them.
>
>What in the world are you talking about?  Material reality does not follow
>the imagination, principally.
>
> >you throw me & cliff out of every organization i argue with you in. what 
>do
> >you suggest i do? i am willing to discuss and argue my positions, would 
>you
> >like to set a date or event.
>
>I think this is part of why we have a difficult time organizing
>together...we fought with NBPC & NJFO to retract SWORD's ban--admitting the
>error--to the point of a split with them.  If you can't acknowledge this,
>how can we ever lay a real basis for unity?  (I'd really appreciate a
>response to this)  However, we must agree to disagree on the *history*
>regarding Curtis.  The accustations of "sabotage" are as out-to-lunch as
>ever & not worth addressing anymore.
>
>  >Why do these debates take the form of a disfunctional family squabble?
>  >often... "i don't see it."
>
>It's pretty obvious to alot of people...but whatever.
>
>  >Why did Joe respond with smack mouth verbal boxing when I ask him why?
>  > "or do you just want to have a smack mouth boxing match..."
>
>Give me a break, Joe- this was a reference to your tone to me, not a 
>threat.
>   Sorry to create that misunderstanding.
>
>
>  >Why do you mash "Greens are right...Peoples War on the Right" & then
>refuse
>  >to acknowledge if your line is "Peoples War on the Greens"?
>
> >(Joe wrote:) what is your craze with this matt? where has cliff or myself
> >mashed these slogans? reality points out that the greens are right and
> >therefor must be absorbed just as all right organizations into the 
>peoples
> >war on the right. that is why U&S has them as part of the fake left
> >umbrella. what do you think?
>
>Again, we agree that the Green Party must be struggled against when it
>follows right-liberalism & objectively serves the goals of
>right-imperialism.  But they are not imperialists.  Therefor, we must look
>for & embrace revo-dem tendencies within the party (dialectically speaking,
>it must exist) & uphold those tendencies, while encouraging the party to
>embrace our call for a left-bloc against fascism.  Our lines do not follow
>our slogans!  & the *sloganeering-style* formula "Greens are 
>right...Peoples
>war against the right" that came repeatedly from Cliff leads to the
>conclusion that you are calling for "Peoples War against the Greens".   Is
>this a stretch ("idiotic"?)since at the same time I was attacked by Cliff
>for attempting to reach out to Rev-Dem tendencies within the membership?
>It's an obvious conclusion. It's worse still since Cliff's written form
>seemed to attribute this ultra-left formula to U&S.
>
>BTW- has Cliff answered the question yet himself?
>
>
>    >Why do you not see that I was criticizing the same right-liberal line
>that  >you strangely claim that i was upholding when this unproductive (yet
>again) >exchange started?
>
>  >(Joe) because you weren't. you never told fortunato that he is right 
>wing
>in your response to his post. nor did you say greens are right.
>
>I argued a position critical of right-liberalism within the Green Party 
>with
>historic references & facts, if you read my post.  I don't argue from
>slogans, which is simplistic & misleading (see Mao) & not uncommon on this
>egroup list.
>
>  >Why do you feel that you have to keep explaining my positions to Amiri, 
>as
>  >if I don't have a working relationship with the man?
>
>(Joe) because you lie and blame others for your mistakes once nobody's
>around to say otherwise.
>
>That's ridiculous.
>
>  >Why do you think he can't figure me out on his own?
>
>(Joe) who said he couldn't?
>
>You seem to think that you need to explain who I am to him frequently.
>What's strange (& amusing, only because it's so strange)is who you think I
>am.... but again, there's too much been removed from practice to sort it
>out, I think.
>
>  >Why do you feel that this form of debate has to do with "unity" as the
>  >principle aspect of the contradiction: unity & struggle?
>
>(Joe) it doesn't.
>
>It should.
>
>-Matt
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2305
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-14 22:48:34
Subject:Re: Fwd: [nbpc] Re: Why's
Message:

"why the hostility at the idea of embracing revo-democratic tendencies 
within the membership where they exist..."   -ms

identify these 'tendencies', materialist.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Fwd: [nbpc] Re: Why's
>Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 01:41:22
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Why's
>Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:46:34 -0500
>
> >respond to my entire post.
>
>
>
>how's this:
>
>
>  >
>  >
>  >  >My question was raised to Cliff when he repeatedly mashed the slogans
>  >  >"Greens are right...Peoples' War on the Right".
>  >
>  >when/where has cliff "repeatedly mashed the slogans"? i haven't seen it,
>
>
>See my last post
>
>
>  >i would offer that you haven't done anything with these slogans but deny
>  >them & counter organize efforts to apply them. by sucking up to
>republicans
>  >& greens in the peoples campaign
>
>
>I think we've beat this horse to death.
>
>
>-yoU&S didn't go to print- and still today
>  >with your soft line w/fortunato.
>
>
>Same. See my last post
>
> >
>  >
>  >  >I asked Cliff if this implies that his line is "Peoples war
>  >  >on the Greens."
>  >
>  >you ask cliff this to avoid the criticism he offered to your position 
>that
>  >you expressed to fortunato. plus your question is ONLY an attempt to 
>have
>  >him say yes so you can point out how ultra-left you think he is.
>  >
>
>That's interesting speculation.  I'm still wondering what Cliff's line is.
>Btw- if your line isn't "Peoples war against the Greens" then why the
>hostility at the idea of embracing revo-democratic tendencies within the
>membership where they exist while being critical of right-liberalism?
>
>
>
>  >
>  >  >If you consider AB's statement "its not the structure that infuriates
>but
>  >  >the right wing liberalism", you may realize that it's a question of
>  >  >attacking this particular line within the Green Party (as elsewhere, 
>in
>  >the
>  >  >"Fake-Left").
>  >
>  >i wouldn't realize this from your behavior.
>
>
>My behavior?!
>
>
> >what does florida have to do
>  >with attacking the right wing agenda of the greens?
>
>
>Material results are the best judge of intentions.
>
>
>greens are right before,
>  >during, & after florida, so what is you agenda with this line of
>criticism.
>
>
>I think I've explained it...
>
>
>  >what happens when joegreen says your right, nadir shouldn't have
>campaigned
>  >florida? that doesn't solve anything, does it?
>  >
>  >
>
>How about what happens if they acknowledge that running Nadir was a
>right-liberal error & helped Bush win the election?  What happens if there
>is a sharpened line struggle within the Green party along this line?  What
>happens if the Revolutionary democratic line prevails?  What happens if 
>they
>agree to join a left-bloc united-front against fascism?
>
>
>
>  >
>  >what do you mean by, "*mass* independent party that... will eventually
>  >emerge from the united-front"? do you mean you "will eventually" start
>  >organizing for this party?
>
>This is a semantical argument
>
>
>  >how will this party emerge besides "eventually"?
>
>
>By putting unity before struggle & struggle as the *basis* for advancing
>unity
>
>
>Looking foward to your reply to this & my last post.
>
>To reiterate: if your line isn't "Peoples war against the Greens" then why
>the hostility at the idea of embracing revo-democratic tendencies within 
>the
>membership where they exist while being critical of right-liberalism?
>
>-Matt
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2306
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-15 08:43:11
Subject:Re: Why's
Message:

i responded clearly to your entire posts & you should respond to my entire 
post so any parts of the conversation will not be ducked by you or i. so i 
will resend two posts - the one you responded to with a threat & the one 
that is a response to your why's. joe




>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, keithjoseph@..., 
>cliffsmith69@..., tamaradahan@..., amirib@...
>Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: Why's
>Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:59:30
>
>Joe- thanks for responding.  i have my own ideas for some of the answers to
>these questions that will obviously differ from yours, but thats how it
>goes--
>
>For instance, as to why we never resolve these lines on email,i think is
>because this forum is totally removed from practice.
>
>AS for why "mash"-sloganeering "Greens are right...people's war on right"
>leads to the conclusion "peoples war on the greens" because in math, a
>formula that says if a=b & b=c, necessarily implies that a=c.
>Since ideology doesn't stem from slogans, it is helpful to make your
>postions clear rather than wave slogans.
>
>Also, because my position, and what I interpret from AB's statement
>"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"
>is that it is a question of lines, not 'structures'...so I unite with SWORD
>in opposing right-wing liberalism within the Green Party, as elsewhere.  I
>disagree with SWORD when you attack people for attempting to unite with
>Revolutionary Democratic tendencies within the membership.  This is
>ultra-leftism.  Joe, you said "i do not understand what you are asking."
>Well, I hope its more clear, as this is the heart of the matter.
>
>As for my raising the question to Cliff, it was to Cliff.  Not to AB.  This
>isn't the first time you used this tactic.  It just creates confusion and
>resolves nothing.
>
> >- that is why the greens must be exposed ruthlessly along with your 
>undying
> >support of them.
>
>What in the world are you talking about?  Material reality does not follow
>the imagination, principally.
>
> >you throw me & cliff out of every organization i argue with you in. what 
>do
> >you suggest i do? i am willing to discuss and argue my positions, would 
>you
> >like to set a date or event.
>
>I think this is part of why we have a difficult time organizing
>together...we fought with NBPC & NJFO to retract SWORD's ban--admitting the
>error--to the point of a split with them.  If you can't acknowledge this,
>how can we ever lay a real basis for unity?  (I'd really appreciate a
>response to this)  However, we must agree to disagree on the *history*
>regarding Curtis.  The accustations of "sabotage" are as out-to-lunch as
>ever & not worth addressing anymore.
>
>  >Why do these debates take the form of a disfunctional family squabble?
>  >often... "i don't see it."
>
>It's pretty obvious to alot of people...but whatever.
>
>  >Why did Joe respond with smack mouth verbal boxing when I ask him why?
>  > "or do you just want to have a smack mouth boxing match..."
>
>Give me a break, Joe- this was a reference to your tone to me, not a 
>threat.
>   Sorry to create that misunderstanding.
>
>
>  >Why do you mash "Greens are right...Peoples War on the Right" & then
>refuse
>  >to acknowledge if your line is "Peoples War on the Greens"?
>
> >(Joe wrote:) what is your craze with this matt? where has cliff or myself
> >mashed these slogans? reality points out that the greens are right and
> >therefor must be absorbed just as all right organizations into the 
>peoples
> >war on the right. that is why U&S has them as part of the fake left
> >umbrella. what do you think?
>
>Again, we agree that the Green Party must be struggled against when it
>follows right-liberalism & objectively serves the goals of
>right-imperialism.  But they are not imperialists.  Therefor, we must look
>for & embrace revo-dem tendencies within the party (dialectically speaking,
>it must exist) & uphold those tendencies, while encouraging the party to
>embrace our call for a left-bloc against fascism.  Our lines do not follow
>our slogans!  & the *sloganeering-style* formula "Greens are 
>right...Peoples
>war against the right" that came repeatedly from Cliff leads to the
>conclusion that you are calling for "Peoples War against the Greens".   Is
>this a stretch ("idiotic"?)since at the same time I was attacked by Cliff
>for attempting to reach out to Rev-Dem tendencies within the membership?
>It's an obvious conclusion. It's worse still since Cliff's written form
>seemed to attribute this ultra-left formula to U&S.
>
>BTW- has Cliff answered the question yet himself?
>
>
>    >Why do you not see that I was criticizing the same right-liberal line
>that  >you strangely claim that i was upholding when this unproductive (yet
>again) >exchange started?
>
>  >(Joe) because you weren't. you never told fortunato that he is right 
>wing
>in your response to his post. nor did you say greens are right.
>
>I argued a position critical of right-liberalism within the Green Party 
>with
>historic references & facts, if you read my post.  I don't argue from
>slogans, which is simplistic & misleading (see Mao) & not uncommon on this
>egroup list.
>
>  >Why do you feel that you have to keep explaining my positions to Amiri, 
>as
>  >if I don't have a working relationship with the man?
>
>(Joe) because you lie and blame others for your mistakes once nobody's
>around to say otherwise.
>
>That's ridiculous.
>
>  >Why do you think he can't figure me out on his own?
>
>(Joe) who said he couldn't?
>
>You seem to think that you need to explain who I am to him frequently.
>What's strange (& amusing, only because it's so strange)is who you think I
>am.... but again, there's too much been removed from practice to sort it
>out, I think.
>
>  >Why do you feel that this form of debate has to do with "unity" as the
>  >principle aspect of the contradiction: unity & struggle?
>
>(Joe) it doesn't.
>
>It should.
>
>-Matt
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2307
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-11-15 08:55:57
Subject:Fwd: Re: Why's
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
all answers to matt's questions are in order below this brief statement

sword's line is:
to apply revolutionary democratic struggle/strategy to defend, build, & 
support independent political campaigns where they can win & where they 
will serve the people.
	-ras baraka may2002
	-nb peoples campaign nov.2002

to pin the democrats on the republicans in elections that only one of
the two can win.

to build the Peoples Democratic Workers Party as put forward by U&S.

to expose all opportunist counterfeit Fake Left people, positions, and 
organizations.

to embrace and put forward U&S' call "revolutionaries unite".

to unite with and to put forward U&S at the highest level possible, 
sword 
maintains that our edit board participation would only strengthen U&S.

why do you lay down to the greens over & over matt? they are not 
revolutionaries, they are not progressive... they are right wing 
frauds. & if you are going to agree that you consider them to be right, 
why didn't YOU print U&S 2000? -joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>

>Cliff & Joe-  at the risk of doing an injustice to a great poem, i find the form effective:

as long as you answer my questions.

>Why do you avoid the questions I raised? (Is "Peoples War on Greens" your line?)

at first i thought you were just an idiot for asking. the answer is no 
that is not sword's line. attacking the greens is a small, but 
necessary, aspect of the peoples war on the right. not because sword 
wants to attack greens because we are ulta-left, but because the greens 
put themselves in the line of fire. the most dangerous of enemies is 
someone you think is on your side - that is why the greens must be 
exposed ruthlessly along with your undying support of them. i was fine 
with organizing to defeat bush but the greens say i'm wrong and bush is 
now president & you're the one that didn't press print.

>Why do you answer with more questions & accusations but not answers?

who's the one with all the questions? i got answers... but you should 
take the time to go back and answer my questions from the other post 
which you replied to with your threat.

>Why do you want to look for something to fight about, rather than 
explore what we can come to agreement on?

you sign "Unity & Struggle" to your opportunist, non-revolutionary 
position on why you won't vote green. i've heard democrats offer more
progressive criticisms of the greens.

>Why do you seem like you want to pick a fight more than resolve anything?

who is picking a fight? resolve anything like what? what do you want to 
resolve...

>Why do these things keep going in circles?

because for the last six years you have been sabotoging U&S' 
production, U&S' distribution, & U&S' line and i don't have any reason 
to think that you have or will stop. you blame njfo because you didn't 
press the print button in 2000. you blame fraud because you upheld the 
boycott position in 96. you sat thousands of U&S papers in YOUR hale st 
apt that YOU wouldn't let me distribute and that were never distributed 
by you. you built up republican curtis for these same six years into a 
city council candidate in '00 that effectively got frank bright onto 
the NB housing authority. and today you claim to represent the same 
trend as amiri even though since you've known amiri all you have done 
is sabatoge and disrupt his paper and revolutionary line.

i am not the one going in circles. where is your line on the RED 
collective - who they are & where did they come from & what is there 
relationship to U&S, revolutionary democratic struggle (& strategy), & 
the NB republicans.

>Why do we consistantly fail to comunicate on email?

i am communicating my ideas...

>Why don't these line struggles get resolved on email? ever?

what is the line struggle you are looking to resolve?

>Why do we go on like this on email, then never address any of this in 
>person like it's not there?

you throw me & cliff out of every organization i argue with you in. 
what do you suggest i do? i am willing to discuss and argue my 
positions, would you like to set a date or event.

>Why do these debates take the form of a disfunctional family squabble? 
>often...

i don't see it.

>Why did Joe invent a senario that I asked AB a question that I really asked 
>Cliff?

because your question is with amiri/U&S:
does peoples war on the right & greens are right (both lines put 
forward by U&S) = peoples war on the greens.
you have not shown me where cliff has "mashed" these lines...

>Why did Joe respond with smack mouth verbal boxing when I ask him why?

"or do you just want to have a
smack mouth boxing match..."

what does smack mouth boxing mean to you?

>Why did Joe pretend that my pointing this out was a threat to him?

i do not pretend anything, don't bring shit up talking about smackin 
people.

>Why do you & Joe keep sending these sad intercoursed to Amiri & other 
>people who probably don't have this kind of time to waste?

why do you care?

>Why do you mash "Greens are right...Peoples War on the Right" & then refuse to acknowledge if your line is "Peoples War on the Greens"?

what is your craze with this matt? where has cliff or myself mashed 
these slogans? reality points out that the greens are right and 
therefor must be absorbed just as all right organizations into the 
peoples war on the right. that is why U&S has them as part of the fake 
left umbrella. what do you think?

>Why do you then act as if this contrived formulation is U&S' position?

when did i act as if this is U&S' position?

>Why do you say that we shouldn't look for revolutionary democratic 
>tendencies within the Greens to unite with while being critical of the 
>right-liberal line?

you are the only person i know that says there is anything 
revolutionary about the greens. U&S SAYS "GREENS ARE RIGHT"

>Why do you equate this to being "conciliatory" & "holding hands" of the right?

because matt, GREENS ARE RIGHT. they attack U&S' revolutionary strategy
and say that the people are stronger than imperialism. but you falsely
put forward that there are revolutionary democratic alliances that you
can make. where are the RD alliances but in your head?

>Why do you not respond to AB's statement pointing out that it's the line that should be attacked.

i do not understand what you are asking.
"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"AB

>Why do you not see that I was criticizing the same right-liberal line that you strangely claim that i was upholding when this unproductive (yet again) exchange started?

because you weren't. you never told fortunato that he is right wing in 
your response to his post. nor did you say greens are right.

>Why do you feel that you have to keep explaining my positions to Amiri, as if I don't have a working relationship with the man?

because you lie and blame others for your mistakes once nobody's around 
to say otherwise.

>Why do you think he can't figure me out on his own?

who said he couldn't?

>Why do you feel that this form of debate has to do with "unity" as the 
>principle aspect of the contradiction: unity & struggle?

it doesn't. you have for years and continue to disrupt unity with me & 
cliff to serve your own opportunist ends. i am just pointing things out 
as they go from here on.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2308
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-11-15 09:06:16
Subject:Fwd: Re: amiri's question
Message:

matt, why isn't the question for amiri if he is the one that developed 
a & b of your a+b=c equation?????????????????????????????


amiri, matt wants to know if you have the lines:
	1. peoples war on the right &
	2. greens are right...
is your line peoples war on the greens?


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>

"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"AB
>
>It would be more interesting if you answered the question directly: "Is 
>*your* line peoples war on the greens?" rather than more cryptic
>cross-polinated sloganeering.
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>

'shd be' idealism is not the point.
everyone 'shd be'. but in reality there is class struggle.

u&s line is: greens are right.
tell me what is u&s' line re: the right?

peoples' war on the right.
combat liberalism.

>
From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>

The Greens should become an ally in the UF.

Are you saying that your line is "People's war against the Green 
Party?"
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>  >
>  >yr conciliatory line is to reconcile w/ greens on basis that they merely 
>admit a particular 'mistake', which will supposedly 'transform' them into 
>an ally in the revolutionary democratic united front, thereby earning yr 
>endorsement of 'vote' & 'trust'. (in nwk, you shd push this. dont be 
>encouraging these reactionaries in nb)
>  >
greens enabled bush. as did republicans.

u&s' line is: greens are right.

yr argument is w/ u&s.
>
>  >
>  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
>  >  >
My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every
organization has competing ideologies.
>  >  >
I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an 
out. 
That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--

Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?

Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans
also, for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)

you lost me...MS

>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>  >  >
u&s line: greens are right.

yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party
w/ a "different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they 
(the 
non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".

("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)

yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for
>their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose... profound.
>  >  >
>  >  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >  >combat liberalism.
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since an 
>honest (& I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the 
>Nader'00 farce would have to include an internal transformation of the 
>party & bring them into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for 
>revolutionary democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them a 
>better alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic 
>Machine in NB where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, it 
>would be necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as it 
>would be a different party with a different leading ideology. It would 
>still not be a replacement for the *mass* independant party that must & 
>will eventually emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the Greens 
>think they are now  that)
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in
>  >  >facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we 
>humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green Party, this is one 
>progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office" for lack of 
>trust, to start."   -ms
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for
>  >reactionary greenback$, "progressive"?
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >u&s position is: greens are right.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >  >  >combat liberalism.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >cs
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest assesment 
>of the role of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the 
>disasterous results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by the 
>Green Party, this is one progressive that will never vote Green for "higher 
>office" for lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly 
>insisted there was no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, & 
>with Nader campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where 
>Nader carried 92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election (a 
>gross violation of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce Afrin's 
>less-slick echo of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely 
>spoon-fed only defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" rather 
>than real substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces 
>(including Nader himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the 
>right-wing Bush family oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring leading 
>us to economic disaster and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been warning 
>the Greens, et al. about this scenario since being brow-beat for suggesting 
>Bradley was a better dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for 
>the intentions of many Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party 
>hasn't yet figured it out, my vote will reflect this. & for those who like 
>to quote Mao, recall his words on "intentions" (On Practice/On 
>Contradictions)--that the "truest criteria with which to judge intentions 
>are *material results*.
>  >  >  >  >Unity & Struggle,
>  >  >  >  >Matthew Smith
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >  >  >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey holding 
>a double-digit lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine 
>points, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote 
>their conscience and cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green Party 
>for Governor. Jerry is the only candidate putting forward the progressive 
>agenda: a ban on "consent searches"' universal health care, adequate 
>spending for public education, jobs and housing, a living wage and 
>independent and effective civilian review of police misconduct allegations.
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we 
>can only conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race. 
>Therefore, vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.

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--- End forwarded message ---








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2309
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-11-15 09:10:23
Subject:Fwd: Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

this is the second post that i did not get a full response to. though i 
took the time to fully respond to every question & statement by matt. 
this is the post that matt responded to me with a threat. joe

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:

>Joe- How do you expect to be taken seriously when you play these kind of games.  It's stupid & would be annoying, if it wasn't so boring.

i guess your satisfied with jerkin off fortunato - a guy who calls me a 
short-pants communist - who would consider himself a success if 
schundler won.


>I think I have an idea of what AB's line is.

you act like you don't have a clue. maybe you can share what you think 
amiri's line is.


>My question was raised to Cliff when he repeatedly mashed the slogans 
>"Greens are right...Peoples' War on the Right".

when/where has cliff "repeatedly mashed the slogans"? i haven't seen 
it, but i would offer that you haven't done anything with these slogans 
but deny them & counter organize efforts to apply them. by sucking up 
to republicans & greens in the peoples campaign -yoU&S didn't go to 
print- and still today with your soft line w/fortunato.


>I asked Cliff if this implies that his line is "Peoples war
>on the Greens."

you ask cliff this to avoid the criticism he offered to your position 
that you expressed to fortunato. plus your question is ONLY an attempt 
to have him say yes so you can point out how ultra-left you think he 
is.


>He has consistantly avoided answering, so I'm not clear on why he would mash them together.

again, when/where?


>If you consider AB's statement "its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism", you may realize that it's a question of 
>attacking this particular line within the Green Party (as elsewhere, in the "Fake-Left").

i wouldn't realize this from your behavior. what does florida have to 
do with attacking the right wing agenda of the greens? greens are right 
before, during, & after florida, so what is you agenda with this line 
of criticism. what happens when joegreen says your right, nadir 
shouldn't have campaigned florida? that doesn't solve anything, does 
it?


>Instead of goofing around, wasting time, why not answer the question or ask Cliff to & then we can have a real discussion.    -Matt

who's goofing around & wasting time? who's the one jerkin around w/
greens, not me & cliff. let's revisit a section of your earlier 
postings: At such a time, it would be necessary for U&S to revisit it's 
"Greens are right" line, as it would be a different party with a 
different leading ideology. It would still not be a replacement for the 
*mass* independant party that must & will eventually emerge from the 
united- front. (Unfortunately, the Greens think they are now  that)

what do you mean by, "*mass* independent party that... will eventually 
emerge from the united-front"? do you mean you "will eventually" start 
organizing for this party? how will this party emerge besides 
"eventually"?

joe

>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>To: amirib@a..., nbpeoplescampaign@y..., vivaohio@h...
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd:  Re: Coleman for Governor
>Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:28:44 -0500
>
>amiri, matt wants to know if you have the lines:
>	1. peoples war on the right &
>	2. greens are right...
>is your line peoples war on the greens?
>
>
>  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
>
>"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"AB
>  >
>  >It would be more interesting if you answered the question directly: "Is
>  >*your* line peoples war on the greens?" rather than more cryptic
>  >cross-polinated sloganeering.
>  >
>  >
>  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>
>'shd be' idealism is not the point.
>everyone 'shd be'. but in reality there is class struggle.
>
>u&s line is: greens are right.
>tell me what is u&s' line re: the right?
>
>peoples' war on the right.
>combat liberalism.
>
>  >
>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
>
>The Greens should become an ally in the UF.
>
>Are you saying that your line is "People's war against the Green Party?"
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>  >  >
>  >  >yr conciliatory line is to reconcile w/ greens on basis that they
>merely
>  >admit a particular 'mistake', which will supposedly 'transform' them 
>into
>  >an ally in the revolutionary democratic united front, thereby earning yr
>  >endorsement of 'vote' & 'trust'. (in nwk, you shd push this. dont be
>  >encouraging these reactionaries in nb)
>  >  >
>greens enabled bush. as did republicans.
>
>u&s' line is: greens are right.
>
>yr argument is w/ u&s.
>  >
>  >  >
>  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
>  >  >  >
>My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every
>organization has competing ideologies.
>  >  >  >
>I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an out.
>That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--
>
>Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?
>
>Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans
>also, for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)
>
>you lost me...MS
>
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>  >  >  >
>u&s line: greens are right.
>
>yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party
>w/ a "different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the
>non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".
>
>("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)
>
>yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for
>  >their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose... profound.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >  >  >combat liberalism.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since 
>an
>  >honest (& I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the
>  >Nader'00 farce would have to include an internal transformation of the
>  >party & bring them into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for
>  >revolutionary democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them 
>a
>  >better alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic
>  >Machine in NB where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, it
>  >would be necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as 
>it
>  >would be a different party with a different leading ideology. It would
>  >still not be a replacement for the *mass* independant party that must &
>  >will eventually emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the Greens
>  >think they are now  that)
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
>  >  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in
>  >  >  >facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we
>  >humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green Party, this is one
>  >progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office" for lack of
>  >trust, to start."   -ms
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for
>  >  >reactionary greenback$, "progressive"?
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >u&s position is: greens are right.
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
>  >  >  >  >combat liberalism.
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >cs
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest 
>assesment
>  >of the role of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the
>  >disasterous results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by
>the
>  >Green Party, this is one progressive that will never vote Green for
>"higher
>  >office" for lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly
>  >insisted there was no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the campaign, 
>&
>  >with Nader campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida where
>  >Nader carried 92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election 
>(a
>  >gross violation of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce 
>Afrin's
>  >less-slick echo of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are merely
>  >spoon-fed only defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign" 
>rather
>  >than real substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces
>  >(including Nader himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the
>  >right-wing Bush family oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring
>leading
>  >us to economic disaster and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been 
>warning
>  >the Greens, et al. about this scenario since being brow-beat for
>suggesting
>  >Bradley was a better dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect for
>  >the intentions of many Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party
>  >hasn't yet figured it out, my vote will reflect this. & for those who 
>like
>  >to quote Mao, recall his words on "intentions" (On Practice/On
>  >Contradictions)--that the "truest criteria with which to judge 
>intentions
>  >are *material results*.
>  >  >  >  >  >Unity & Struggle,
>  >  >  >  >  >Matthew Smith
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
>  >  >  >  >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey 
>holding
>  >a double-digit lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine
>  >points, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote
>  >their conscience and cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green
>Party
>  >for Governor. Jerry is the only candidate putting forward the 
>progressive
>  >agenda: a ban on "consent searches"' universal health care, adequate
>  >spending for public education, jobs and housing, a living wage and
>  >independent and effective civilian review of police misconduct
>allegations.
>  >  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, we
>  >can only conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this race.
>  >Therefore, vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
>
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>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
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--- End forwarded message ---








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2310
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-11-15 10:49:04
Subject:Re: Response to Patterson LTE
Message:

I did not see Frank Coury's letter to the editor, but I must set the 
record straight as far as Glenn Patterson's illusions demonstrated in 
his 11/10/01 letter responding to Mr. Coury. The New Brunswick City 
Machine, which employs Mr. Patterson, is controlled by Johnson & 
Johnson and does not represent the people of the city. The entire 
redevelopment/"revitalization" is in no way representative of the will 
of the residents of New Brunswick. The residents have never had any say 
on the redevelopment process that so often evicts, displaces, 
unemploys, and removes many from the city entirely. Democracy, not 
Devco or New Brunswick Tomorrow, needs to head this redevelopment 
process. Is someone afraid of us New Brunswick residents having control 
over NB redevelopment? Those afraid of the peoples vote are the peoples 
enemy.

Devco & NBT, both dubbed public/private partnerships, really have no 
public identity because there is no public vote on the board members,
let alone the projects these boards contract. Reality shows that these 
organizations are completely dominated by multi-billion dollar, 
international corporations - J&J, Rutgers, Squibb, RWJ, UMDNJ - that 
can never represent the interest of the people. Only the peoples vote 
can illustrate the interests of the people, so please Mr. Patterson 
explain why there is no city wide vote for all residents on . 

This summer, the New Brunswick Homes public-housing towers were 
demolished to make way for new high-income housing. Former public 
housing residents were served multiple evictions notices because the 
city machine renigned on its plan to build new housing for the Homes 
residents to move directly into. The city machine also refused to find 
suitable housing units for these families that Mr. Patterson now claims 
to have helped. If it were not for the city wide resistance to these 
criminal eviction attempts dozens of families would have been on the 
streets. I saw Mr. Patterson at the city council meetings in which 
residents attacked the council for attempting to put these families on 
the street. Many of these encounters are covered in the Home News by 
Sharon Waters and can be researced. 

This same political machine is also responsible for the worst public 
school system in Middlesex County based on NJ standardized tests 
results. There was a 20% drop in NBHS test scores because the publics 
schools resources are being robbed by Mayor Cahill's appointed board of 
education. This corrupt board saw fit to steal $850,000 from the public 
schools and place into the private hands of a local charter school. We 
demand a criminal investigation into Superintendent Larkin and Mayor 
Cahill's appointed board for these actions. Parents, students, and 
residents in New Brunswick must support & organize for the elected 
board of education as step one in solving the problems NB public 
schools. 

The New Brunswick Peoples Campaign is organizing to destroy the NB City 
Machine with Peoples Democracy. We must prepare now to win the Mayor's 
seat, two city council seats, and the elected board of education for 
November 2002. 

Joe Smith
New Brunswick Peoples Campaign
13 James St. #2
New Brunswick NJ 08901
732.729.0390

 








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2311
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-15 11:10:01
Subject:redevelopment
Message:

NEW BRUNSWICK: Redevelopment urged

               Published in the Home News Tribune 11/15/01

               Bank may relocate to proposed site

               By SHARON WATERS
               STAFF WRITER

               The city's Planning Board recommended last night that a 
triangular site where French and Somerset streets intersect be               
redeveloped.

               Magyar Savings Bank, which will need to move from its current 
location under a separate redevelopment concept the city is               
considering, has expressed interest in relocating to the area.

               The site needing redevelopment, according to the Planning 
Board, includes New Brunswick House Wreckers at 396               Somerset 
St. and New Brunswick Auto Body at 269 French St., plus a nearby two-family 
house. Structures on the auto-body property are in disrepair and littered 
with debris and rubbish, said Glenn Patterson, city planning director.

               "This is a textbook example of a blighted, dilapidated 
property," he said.

               A city study calls the property an "eyesore" and states 
dilapidated conditions have existed at the site for over 40 years. While the 
auto-body business is still active, much of the property is vacant, and it 
is "uncertain" if other buildings on the site have               activity, 
Patterson said.

               The adjacent two-family house at 392 Somerset St. had some 
minor property-maintenance violations between 1994 and 1997, according to 
officials, but overall did not meet the criteria for needing redevelopment. 
The house was included in the recommendation in order to square off the site 
and create a more functional redevelopment parcel, said Patterson.

               The Planning Board last night voted unanimously on the 
recommendation. No members of the public spoke during the meeting, and board 
members' discussion about the proposal was limited.

               Magyar hopes to move its administrative offices, lending 
operations and a small retail facility out to a 19,000-square-foot    
building at French and Somerset streets, bank President and CEO Robert E. 
Pastor said last month. A small branch of the community bank will remain 
near its current location at French and Prospect streets, said Pastor.

               The city wants to see Magyar's current site and a two-block 
area of French Street, between Prospect and Scott streets,     redeveloped 
into a hospital, a pediatric research facility, an office building on 
Magyar's current site and a parking garage behind where the bank sits. The 
city's $114 million concept also includes widening Prospect Street and 
expanding sidewalks on French Street.

               Earlier this month, the City Council designated the 
French-Prospect area, which contains diverse small businesses and some    
houses, as needing redevelopment. A formal plan for the site is being 
prepared.

               If the City Council concurs with the Planning Board's 
recommendation about the French-Somerset site, a redevelopment plan    would 
be created for that area and a redeveloper selected. Designation as an area 
needing redevelopment is a first step that could lead to condemnation of 
property if the seller and redeveloper cannot agree on a sale price.

               Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@...

               from the Home News Tribune

               Published: November 15, 2001

               Go Back

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2312
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-15 15:38:08
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: Re: Coleman for Governor
Message:

Joe- I responded at length to both your posts.  Instead of responding, 
you're keeping on with this stunt- a total fabrication. I never threatened 
you- you know I was refering to your tone.  It's a sorry divertion & is once 
again not resolving anything, & showing that you're not interested in 
building any kind of unity around these questions, so what's the point.  If 
you want to keep playing this game, go on, but I'm out.


----Original Message Follows----
From: can_bush@...
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: vivaohio@..., nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, 
cliffsmith69@..., tamaradahan@..., amirib@...
Subject: [nbpc] Fwd:  Re: Coleman for Governor
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:10:23 -0000

this is the second post that i did not get a full response to. though i
took the time to fully respond to every question & statement by matt.
this is the post that matt responded to me with a threat. joe

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:

 >Joe- How do you expect to be taken seriously when you play these kind of 
games.  It's stupid & would be annoying, if it wasn't so boring.

i guess your satisfied with jerkin off fortunato - a guy who calls me a
short-pants communist - who would consider himself a success if
schundler won.


 >I think I have an idea of what AB's line is.

you act like you don't have a clue. maybe you can share what you think
amiri's line is.


 >My question was raised to Cliff when he repeatedly mashed the slogans
 >"Greens are right...Peoples' War on the Right".

when/where has cliff "repeatedly mashed the slogans"? i haven't seen
it, but i would offer that you haven't done anything with these slogans
but deny them & counter organize efforts to apply them. by sucking up
to republicans & greens in the peoples campaign -yoU&S didn't go to
print- and still today with your soft line w/fortunato.


 >I asked Cliff if this implies that his line is "Peoples war
 >on the Greens."

you ask cliff this to avoid the criticism he offered to your position
that you expressed to fortunato. plus your question is ONLY an attempt
to have him say yes so you can point out how ultra-left you think he
is.


 >He has consistantly avoided answering, so I'm not clear on why he would 
mash them together.

again, when/where?


 >If you consider AB's statement "its not the structure that infuriates but 
the right wing liberalism", you may realize that it's a question of
 >attacking this particular line within the Green Party (as elsewhere, in 
the "Fake-Left").

i wouldn't realize this from your behavior. what does florida have to
do with attacking the right wing agenda of the greens? greens are right
before, during, & after florida, so what is you agenda with this line
of criticism. what happens when joegreen says your right, nadir
shouldn't have campaigned florida? that doesn't solve anything, does
it?


 >Instead of goofing around, wasting time, why not answer the question or 
ask Cliff to & then we can have a real discussion.    -Matt

who's goofing around & wasting time? who's the one jerkin around w/
greens, not me & cliff. let's revisit a section of your earlier
postings: At such a time, it would be necessary for U&S to revisit it's
"Greens are right" line, as it would be a different party with a
different leading ideology. It would still not be a replacement for the
*mass* independant party that must & will eventually emerge from the
united- front. (Unfortunately, the Greens think they are now  that)

what do you mean by, "*mass* independent party that... will eventually
emerge from the united-front"? do you mean you "will eventually" start
organizing for this party? how will this party emerge besides
"eventually"?

joe

 >
 >
 >----Original Message Follows----
 >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
 >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
 >To: amirib@a..., nbpeoplescampaign@y..., vivaohio@h...
 >Subject: [nbpc] Fwd:  Re: Coleman for Governor
 >Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:28:44 -0500
 >
 >amiri, matt wants to know if you have the lines:
 >	1. peoples war on the right &
 >	2. greens are right...
 >is your line peoples war on the greens?
 >
 >
 >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
 >
 >"its not the structure that infuriates but the right wing liberalism"AB
 >  >
 >  >It would be more interesting if you answered the question directly: "Is
 >  >*your* line peoples war on the greens?" rather than more cryptic
 >  >cross-polinated sloganeering.
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
 >
 >'shd be' idealism is not the point.
 >everyone 'shd be'. but in reality there is class struggle.
 >
 >u&s line is: greens are right.
 >tell me what is u&s' line re: the right?
 >
 >peoples' war on the right.
 >combat liberalism.
 >
 >  >
 >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
 >
 >The Greens should become an ally in the UF.
 >
 >Are you saying that your line is "People's war against the Green Party?"
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
 >  >  >
 >  >  >yr conciliatory line is to reconcile w/ greens on basis that they
 >merely
 >  >admit a particular 'mistake', which will supposedly 'transform' them
 >into
 >  >an ally in the revolutionary democratic united front, thereby earning 
yr
 >  >endorsement of 'vote' & 'trust'. (in nwk, you shd push this. dont be
 >  >encouraging these reactionaries in nb)
 >  >  >
 >greens enabled bush. as did republicans.
 >
 >u&s' line is: greens are right.
 >
 >yr argument is w/ u&s.
 >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
 >  >  >  >
 >My experience (& dialectical materialism )has demonstrated that every
 >organization has competing ideologies.
 >  >  >  >
 >I also believe that if you put foward a criticism, you must offer an out.
 >That is, if the recipient is not the enemy--
 >
 >Are you saying that your line is "People's War on the Green Party"?
 >
 >Cliff wrote: (yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans
 >also, for their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose...profound)
 >
 >you lost me...MS
 >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
 >  >  >  >
 >u&s line: greens are right.
 >
 >yr (non?-"mechanical") line: "if" the greens become a "different" party
 >w/ a "different" ideology, (i.e. "if" they stop being greens), they (the
 >non-greens) will earn yr "trust" & vote for "higher office".
 >
 >("if" a doe had nuts shed be a buck...)
 >
 >yr non-"mechanical" reasoning applies to the republicans also, for
 >  >their "facilitating" bush's election, we suppose... profound.
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
 >  >  >  >combat liberalism.
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >Cliff, Your conclusion is a rather mechanical conclusion since
 >an
 >  >honest (& I should have said, scientific) Green Party assessment of the
 >  >Nader'00 farce would have to include an internal transformation of the
 >  >party & bring them into the fold of a left-bloc against the right & for
 >  >revolutionary democracy...if this were to happen, I would consider them
 >a
 >  >better alternative at the very local level than, say, the Democratic
 >  >Machine in NB where they might have a chance to win.  At such a time, 
it
 >  >would be necessary for U&S to revisit it's "Greens are right" line, as
 >it
 >  >would be a different party with a different leading ideology. It would
 >  >still not be a replacement for the *mass* independant party that must &
 >  >will eventually emerge from the united-front. (Unfortunately, the 
Greens
 >  >think they are now  that)
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >----Original Message Follows----
 >  >  >  >  >From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >"until an honest assesment of the role of the Greens/Nader in
 >  >  >  >facilitating Bush s'election & the disasterous results that we
 >  >humanity is now faced with is put foward by the Green Party, this is 
one
 >  >progressive that will never vote Green for "higher office" for lack of
 >  >trust, to start."   -ms
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >merely admitting nadir '00 farce wins "trust" & a vote for
 >  >  >reactionary greenback$, "progressive"?
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >u&s position is: greens are right.
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >peoples' war on the right.
 >  >  >  >  >combat liberalism.
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >cs
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >  >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...
 >  >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >  >To the Green Party, c/o Joe F:
 >  >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >  >Even if what Joe says below were so, until an honest
 >assesment
 >  >of the role of the Greens/Nader in facilitating Bush s'election & the
 >  >disasterous results that we humanity is now faced with is put foward by
 >the
 >  >Green Party, this is one progressive that will never vote Green for
 >"higher
 >  >office" for lack of trust, to start.  While Nader & Greens repeatedly
 >  >insisted there was no difference btwn "Bore & Gush" during the 
campaign,
 >&
 >  >with Nader campaigning throughout swing states (*including Florida 
where
 >  >Nader carried 92,000 votes!!!) in the weeks leading up tho the election
 >(a
 >  >gross violation of his campaign pledge not to do this), with Bruce
 >Afrin's
 >  >less-slick echo of Nader's "take-down-the democrats" line, we are 
merely
 >  >spoon-fed only defensive rhetoric, to wit "Gore ran a bad campaign"
 >rather
 >  >than real substantive reflection.  And this while these same forces
 >  >(including Nader himself!) are NOW making stump speeches about the
 >  >right-wing Bush family oil-dyanasty & its Saudi/bin Laden offspring
 >leading
 >  >us to economic disaster and world war!!!  No kidding...we've been
 >warning
 >  >the Greens, et al. about this scenario since being brow-beat for
 >suggesting
 >  >Bradley was a better dem-candidate than Gore... So, with due respect 
for
 >  >the intentions of many Greens, my conscience tells me the Green Party
 >  >hasn't yet figured it out, my vote will reflect this. & for those who
 >like
 >  >to quote Mao, recall his words on "intentions" (On Practice/On
 >  >Contradictions)--that the "truest criteria with which to judge
 >intentions
 >  >are *material results*.
 >  >  >  >  >  >Unity & Struggle,
 >  >  >  >  >  >Matthew Smith
 >  >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >  >Subject: [poprogress] Re: Coleman for Governor
 >  >  >  >  >  >Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:42:25 EST
 >  >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >  >With ALL of the latest polls but one showing McGreevey
 >holding
 >  >a double-digit lead, and the one exception having him leading by nine
 >  >points, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why progressives should not vote
 >  >their conscience and cast their ballot for Jerry Coleman of the Green
 >Party
 >  >for Governor. Jerry is the only candidate putting forward the
 >progressive
 >  >agenda: a ban on "consent searches"' universal health care, adequate
 >  >spending for public education, jobs and housing, a living wage and
 >  >independent and effective civilian review of police misconduct
 >allegations.
 >  >  >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  >  >  >When we make a concrete analysis of congcrete conditions, 
we
 >  >can only conclude that the "spoiler" factor is not present in this 
race.
 >  >Therefore, vote for Coleman and the progressive aganda.
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________
 >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 >
 >
 >To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...
 >
 >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
 >nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...
 >
 >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >_________________________________________________________________
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 >


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2313
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-15 23:17:11
Subject:U&S has common trend or opportunist friend???
Message:

>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>:

>Joe- I responded at length to both your posts.

not to my entire posts & not nearly to the important issues.
-why is frank bright on the NBHA?
-why didn't you press print in 2000 election?
-why do you claim that there is anything revolutionary about the greens?
-why did your republican boy curtis run for city council?
-where is U&S' position/exposure on the RED collective?
-where do you call greens right?
-when/where has cliff "repeatedly mashed the slogans"?
-what does florida have to do with attacking the right wing agenda of the 
greens?
-what do you mean by, "*mass* independent party that... will eventually
emerge from the united-front"? do you mean you "will eventually" start
organizing for this party? how will this party emerge besides "eventually"?

>Instead of responding,
>you're keeping on with this stunt- a total fabrication.

what stunt? the only fabrication is your "what if" the greens where 
progressive.

>I never threatened
>you- you know I was refering to your tone.

yes, you did. refering to tone, maybe, but your refering was a threat. 
explain how is the threat of "a smack mouth boxing match" refering to one's 
tone?

>It's a sorry divertion & is once
>again not resolving anything, & showing that you're not interested in
>building any kind of unity around these questions, so what's the >point.

what is my diversion, to acknowledge your threat.
there is no building unity with people that are down with bush & the right. 
THAT IS THE POINT of what this discussion is about - you say there is. U&S 
says greens are right - that is why your question is with amiri.

>If
>you want to keep playing this game, go on, but I'm out.

playing this game? your out where? out of what? what does that mean "I'm 
out"?


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2314
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-15 23:43:39
Subject:Fwd: matt's republican buddy
Message:

this message is from matt's good republican buddy curtis.

From: CitrusWar@...
To: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Subject: Re: [nbpc] Re: U&S production- lack there of...
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:47:37 EDT

Joe,

I am glad that you are continuing on that same route, it justifies my
commitment to the promise that I made to you over the phone.

I am sincerely pursuing every avenue to secure that promise to you if I will 
go down in history for anything,  it will be for completing what I said to 
you over the phone.

The only regret that I have will be the lost friendship to your brother 
Matt.
  See ya, when I see ya.


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2315
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-16 00:01:02
Subject:Fwd: sellout or matt's buddy!!
Message:

>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...
>Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 15:02:51 -0400

To all concerned!

I know it may seem strange that I openly advocate being a republican, but I 
have also stressed that I am a People's Campain Republican!  I feel deep in 
my heart that it is important for me to hold on to this new  political 
title.

I can only work to change the image of the Republican Party if I'm in the 
Republican Party.  When the human body is sick, the doctor gives you a 
prescription to put inside your mouth, thus inside of the body.  I am trying 
to work on that theory.  That I can work from the inside out and change the 
Republican Party into a People's Campaign Republican Party.  Our original 
idea for People's Campaign was that all political groups could come together 
for the common good of mankind.  If we loose this theory then we have lost 
the original spirit of People's Campaign.  I no longer will get angry or 
upset with anyone who decides to deface, slander or make negative comments 
about other Republicans including:  Reverend  Dr. DeForest Blake Soaries Jr. 
  When you take a baby, who is hungry and wet and crying out for attention, 
the baby does not care whether or not the mother or father attends to it.  
It is just satisfied to know that its needs are met.  We should feel the 
same way
>about the needs of this nation.  Communist, Democrats, Republicans,
>Right-Winged, Left-Winged, etc. should work toward the common goal.  The 
>old saying: "Two heads are better than one" I feel will really work for our 
>cause.  I cannot account or justify anyone else's actions but my own.  I am 
>a People's Campaign Republican until People' s Campaign does something that 
>is directly against its original theory of serving the people.
>
>Curtis L. Warren Sr.
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2316
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-16 11:23:19
Subject:FBI detainees start hunger-strike
Message:

                     INS prisoners in Hudson jail start
                     hunger strike

                     11/16/01

                     BY BRIAN DONOHUE

                     Seven men detained in the FBI's vast anti-terrorism 
investigation have begun a hunger strike at the Hudson County Correctional 
Facility to protest the secrecy and delays surrounding their detention, a 
county spokesman said yesterday.

                     The hunger strike comes three weeks after a 55-year-old 
Muhammed Rafiq Butt, of Pakistan, died in the Kearny facility while waiting 
to be voluntarily removed from the country.

                     Despite pledges by Immigration and Naturalization 
Service officials to release more quickly those who have been cleared of any 
links to terrorist groups, attorneys representing detainees say the delays 
continue and their lawyers often are unsure why they are being held.

                     A Hudson County spokesman said the seven men on hunger 
strikes have not complained about conditions at the Kearny facility, which 
is holding 302 detainees.

                     "Their gripes are with INS," said Hudson County 
spokesman Jacob de Lemos. "They told administrator and jail officials the 
process is slow and they're not getting the attention they need from INS and 
they're not sure what their status is."

                     Neither the county nor the INS would release any 
information about the men, not even their names. One lawyer who met with 
detainees at the jail Wednesday said several men had accepted voluntary 
deportations, like Butt, and were simply waiting to leave.

                     Two of the men have not eaten meals brought to them in 
two weeks, de Lemos said. Another five have stopped accepting food over the 
past several days, but all seven are drinking fluids and appear healthy, he 
said.

                     A spokesman for the INS Newark District disputed the 
claims, saying several men had only missed a few meals over the past two 
weeks, but that none of the men had gone without food beyond the agency's 
72-hour definition of a hunger strike.

                     "Their definition of a hunger strike and the INS' are 
two different things," Kerry Gill said. "We are trying to find out who is 
making that contention that they are on a hunger strike."

                     Attorney General John Ashcroft says the detention of 
1,100 men -- and plans to question 5,000 more -- are crucial to the FBI's 
efforts to deter future acts of terror and find those with ties to the Sept. 
11 attacks. But they have drawn sharp criticism from attorneys and civil 
rights groups who say the dragnet has infringed on civil rights and violated 
due process of law.

                     Most were originally questioned by authorities who had 
received reports from neighbors or other people who said they resembled 
terror suspects or appeared to be acting suspiciously.

                     The FBI, however, has found evidence linking only a 
small handful to terrorist organizations, and many of them remain jailed on 
minor charges, such as visa overstays, that had been rarely enforced by 
before Sept. 11.

                     The Department of Justice will not release the names of 
those being held or the charges on which they are being held. Last week, the 
government stopped issuing a running tally of the number of people arrested.

                     Attorneys say they have often been unable to meet with 
their clients. Many are also angry over a new rule that allows the federal 
government to eavesdrop on conversations between noncitizens and their 
attorneys.

                     Gill said the INS had received a letter from 12 
detainees raising concerns about the amount of time they were spending in 
detention, being in jail during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which 
begins this week, and asking to be served food that is prepared according to 
Islamic law, or halal.

                     Gill said the jail will begin serving them halal food 
today. He said detainees are visited daily by INS officers with whom they 
can discuss their individual cases.

                     "If they want to speak to an officer, by all means," 
Gill said. "As to what the contents of that discussion are, that will depend 
on the individual's case."

                     The complaints of the men echo those voiced daily at 
INS hearings in Newark, where groups of chained and handcuffed detainees are 
led before judges.

                     Yesterday, Deniz Bozqurt, a Turkish national arrested 
in Paterson on Sept. 20, was told he would remain in jail because the FBI 
has not removed him from a list of people wanted for questioning.

                     But his lawyer, Aslan Soobzokov, said the man has not 
been questioned by the FBI since he was detained.

                     "We're talking two months he's been in custody, and I 
don't think the FBI even checked him out," Soobzokov said. "In the meantime, 
these guys just sit there. It's crazy. It's scary."

                     Brian Donohue covers immigration issues. He can be 
reached at bdonohue@... or 973-392-1543

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2317
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-16 11:30:18
Subject:Practice Will Determine Ideological Correctness
Message:

Joe-

We'll resolve these disputes in practice, if at all.  Disappointing as it 
is, you've expressly stated that you're not interested in starting from a 
point of unity, so what's the point of going in circles.  Maybe we'll have 
more success finding unity in practical work, and the rest will get put out 
in front of the public.  One last note-  Don't say I kicked you out of every 
organization you've disagreed w/ me in- As for U&S, you & Cliff dug your own 
whole & you can get out of it if you want, but not by responding to AB's 
ideological critique "F'you."  As for our CDRP, the work we did nailing 
Rogers was important, but I left it to you & SWORD when it became obvious to 
me that you weren't interested in a united front model, rather another 
left-sectarian group with the same 1/2 dozen members as 3 other 
organizations. Where is it now?  As for the NBPC, I have acknowledged 
repeatedly that it was an error,--specifically, that the contention with 
SWORD's tactics should be addressed openly & in public, but not through 
isolation--but you don't seem to care and move foward, only to keep using it 
as a bludgeoning stick.  But as I've said before, I no longer do penance.  
At the end of the day, if SWORD's line is correct, NBPC will become a strong 
mass force for revolutionary transformation in NB, one capable of organizing 
the people to seize political power.  It will be more productive to spend 
your energy proving yourself right rather than trying to prove me wrong.  
So, see you in the street.

PS- As for Cliff, he seems content to let you do his answering, only 
responding himself by grunting slogans.  So I can't have much to say there, 
except again, practice will tell...

-Matt




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2318
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-16 11:41:26
Subject:Re: Practice Will Determine Ideological Correctness
Message:

EAST BRUNSWICK: Soaries considering a run for Congress

               Published in the Home News Tribune 11/16/01

               By SCOTT ALBRIGHT
               STAFF WRITER

               The Rev. DeForest B. Soaries Jr. said yesterday he will 
decide by the end of the month whether he will run for Congress in the newly 
redrawn 12th District.

               Soaries, a Republican, is New Jersey's secretary of state and 
senior pastor with the First Baptist Church of Lincoln Gardens in Somerset, 
one of the fastest growing black churches in the state.

               The 12th District is represented by Democrat Rush Holt, who 
narrowly won re-election to a second term last year.

               Soaries, a 50-year-old Franklin Park resident, now lives in 
the 7th District, represented by Republican Michael Ferguson. Part of 
Franklin has been moved into the 12th District under the new congressional 
map approved by the state's redistricting commission in late October. The 
map will be used for the next five elections, beginning in 2002.

               In an interview following a keynote speech given to local 
business leaders at the East Brunswick Hilton last night, Soaries said a 
primary factor in his decision will be whether his potential candidacy would 
be a "unifying force for the Republican Party."

               Soaries, who has never held elected public office, said he 
recently talked to state and national Republican Party leaders about his 
possible congressional run.

               "I have gotten very supportive inquiries from some very key 
people," said Soaries, while declining to name them. "I've talked to party 
leaders, I've talked to office holders and I've talked to former office 
holders and they've been very encouraging."

               Soaries, whose term as secretary of state expires on Jan. 15, 
also said he needs to consult his family and church congregation before 
making a final decision. He said he wouldn't give up his leadership role in 
the church if he ran for Congress.

               An announcement, one way or the other, will likely be made 
first to his congregation in Somerset, he said.

               "This is more than speculation, it's an actual process," 
Soaries said.

               If he were to run, Soaries said he would concentrate on 
issues relating to children and poverty.

               He said he offers a "different leadership style" than Holt, a 
physicist by trade. Soaries praised Holt as a man of "personal character" 
and a "nice guy."

               "But I think it is now clear that what people are looking for 
in their public officials is dynamic leadership and not just nice guys," 
Soaries said.

               Scott Albright: (732) 565-7255. E-mail albright@...


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>To: can_bush@..., amirib@..., nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, 
>cliffsmith69@..., keithjoseph99@..., 
>tamaradahan@...
>Subject: Practice Will Determine Ideological Correctness
>Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:30:18
>
>Joe-
>
>We'll resolve these disputes in practice, if at all.  Disappointing as it 
>is, you've expressly stated that you're not interested in starting from a 
>point of unity, so what's the point of going in circles.  Maybe we'll have 
>more success finding unity in practical work, and the rest will get put out 
>in front of the public.  One last note-  Don't say I kicked you out of 
>every organization you've disagreed w/ me in- As for U&S, you & Cliff dug 
>your own whole & you can get out of it if you want, but not by responding 
>to AB's ideological critique "F'you."  As for our CDRP, the work we did 
>nailing Rogers was important, but I left it to you & SWORD when it became 
>obvious to me that you weren't interested in a united front model, rather 
>another left-sectarian group with the same 1/2 dozen members as 3 other 
>organizations. Where is it now?  As for the NBPC, I have acknowledged 
>repeatedly that it was an error,--specifically, that the contention with 
>SWORD's tactics should be addressed openly & in public, but not through 
>isolation--but you don't seem to care and move foward, only to keep using 
>it as a bludgeoning stick.  But as I've said before, I no longer do 
>penance.  At the end of the day, if SWORD's line is correct, NBPC will 
>become a strong mass force for revolutionary transformation in NB, one 
>capable of organizing the people to seize political power.  It will be more 
>productive to spend your energy proving yourself right rather than trying 
>to prove me wrong.  So, see you in the street.
>
>PS- As for Cliff, he seems content to let you do his answering, only 
>responding himself by grunting slogans.  So I can't have much to say there, 
>except again, practice will tell...
>
>-Matt
>
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2319
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-16 22:50:08
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Practice Will Determine Ideological Correctness
Message:

its really something how you run from my engagement, but you are comfortable 
with your dialogue with greens and republicans.

maybe if i ask one question at a time?

where & what is you position/exposure of the RED collective? -joe



>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: can_bush@..., amirib@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, cliffsmith69@..., 
>keithjoseph99@..., tamaradahan@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Practice Will Determine Ideological Correctness
>Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:30:18
>
>Joe-
>
>We'll resolve these disputes in practice, if at all.  Disappointing as it
>is, you've expressly stated that you're not interested in starting from a
>point of unity, so what's the point of going in circles.  Maybe we'll have
>more success finding unity in practical work, and the rest will get put out
>in front of the public.  One last note-  Don't say I kicked you out of 
>every
>organization you've disagreed w/ me in- As for U&S, you & Cliff dug your 
>own
>whole & you can get out of it if you want, but not by responding to AB's
>ideological critique "F'you."  As for our CDRP, the work we did nailing
>Rogers was important, but I left it to you & SWORD when it became obvious 
>to
>me that you weren't interested in a united front model, rather another
>left-sectarian group with the same 1/2 dozen members as 3 other
>organizations. Where is it now?  As for the NBPC, I have acknowledged
>repeatedly that it was an error,--specifically, that the contention with
>SWORD's tactics should be addressed openly & in public, but not through
>isolation--but you don't seem to care and move foward, only to keep using 
>it
>as a bludgeoning stick.  But as I've said before, I no longer do penance.
>At the end of the day, if SWORD's line is correct, NBPC will become a 
>strong
>mass force for revolutionary transformation in NB, one capable of 
>organizing
>the people to seize political power.  It will be more productive to spend
>your energy proving yourself right rather than trying to prove me wrong.
>So, see you in the street.
>
>PS- As for Cliff, he seems content to let you do his answering, only
>responding himself by grunting slogans.  So I can't have much to say there,
>except again, practice will tell...
>
>-Matt
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2320
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-17 17:26:24
Subject:Vieques Update/MOVE TITO KAYAK!!
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign forwards this press release out in 
solidarity with the Committee for the Rescue and Development of Vieques and 
with the forces to release/send back to Puerto Rico Puerto Rican Prisoner of 
Conscience Tito Kayak.  Please forward and participate in the letter writing 
campaign.  For more information on the Vieques movement here in New York 
City check out http://palfrente.tripod.com (The Vieques Support Campaign 
website).

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
_______________________________________________________________________________

Committee for the Rescue and Development of Vieques
PO Box 1424��� Vieques, Puerto Rico� 00765
Telefax (787) 741-1717���� E mail:� bieke@...
�
17 November, 2001
�
Press Release
�
Live or inert bombs, there will be civil disobedience
�
Members of the Committee for the Rescue and Development of Vieques (CRDV) 
denounced the request by high Navy and Marine officiales to the Secretary of 
the Navy to resume use of live bombs for the aircraft carrier John F. 
Kennedy�s maneuvers scheduled for January, 2001.� According to the Vieques 
activists, the military wants to take advantage of the insecurity in the US 
that resulted from the 11 September terrorist attacks, to return to use of 
high explosive bombs, as they did before the death of David Sanes on 19 
April, 1999.
�
�Sixty years of live bombing has left an environmental and health crisis 
recognized by all sectors of the country and that motivated the ex governor, 
Dr. Pedro Rosell�, to declare public policy the immediate and permanent 
cessation of military activity on Vieques,� said Dr. Rafael Rivera Casta�o, 
Viequense epidemiologist and member of the CRDV.
�
Ismael Guadalupe, spokesman for the group, described the request as cynical 
and hypocritical, since the Navy continues to use live weapons in their 
exercises.� He stated, �Those of us who have been in the bombing zone during 
maneuvers know that in between inert bombs the Navy drops some live ones,�.
�
The Viequenses are preparing now to block naval bombing during the next 
military maneuvers � with live or inert bombs � using peacefull civil 
disobedience.
___________________________________________________

>October 30th, 2001
>
>Mr. John Ashcroft
>Attorney General of the United States
>950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
>Washington, DC 20530-0001
>
>CC: Kathleen M. Hawk Sayer,
>Director
>Federal Bureau of Prison
>320 First Street N.W.
>Washington, DC 20534
>
>Mr. Gregory Park
>Warden
>Metropolitan Correction Center
>150 Park Row
>N.Y., N.Y. 10007
>
>Mr. Ashcroft:
>
>Mr. Alberto De Jes�s Mercado (BOP # 19580-069) is
>imprisoned at the Manhattan Metropolitan Correctional
>Center since August 2, 2001. Mr. De Jes�s is currently
>serving a one-year sentence for engaging in peaceful
>civil  disobedience acts in favor of the cease of all
>military exercises and the departure of the US Navy
>from the island of Vieques, Puerto Rico.
>
>
>
>On August 27, 2001 federal judge Michael Dollinger
>sentenced him to time served for his peaceful
>demonstration at the Statue of Liberty and he
>recommended that Mr. De Jes�s should be transferred to
>a federal prison in Puerto Rico. But Mr. De Jes�s is
>still at the Manhattan Correctional Center. His son
>and daughter saw him for the last time on the 26 of
>July, his parents and his wife saw him for the last
>time in August. His family lives in Puerto Rico and
>they are suffering because of the distance and they
>need to be able to visit him. It is very hard for them
>to travel to the United States because they would have
>to miss several days of work and school.
>
>
>
>We also learned from the press that Mr. De Jes�s is
>been kept in solitary confinement because he engaged
>in fasting and spiritual exercises as an act of
>peaceful protest in favor of peace for Vieques and the
>World. This action is protected by freedom of
>statement rights to which prisoners are also entitled.
>As a punishment by the penitentiary institution Mr. De
>Jes�s was kept in solitary confinement for a period of
>32 days. The conditions at the Nine Unit South are
>against his rights to dignity and they constitute a
>cruel punishment, he was locked down for 23 hours a
>day  with no water, high levels of humidity  and
>cockroaches in his cell. He had no electricity, no
>paper, envelopes or stamps. The lack of this articles
>as well as the lack of electricity did not allow him
>to establish effective communication with his family
>or friends
>
>
>
>Based on the civil, human and constitutional rights of
>Mr. De Jes�s we ask you not to send Mr. De Jes�s to a
>cell with infrahuman conditions that attempt against
>his subsistence. We also ask you to use your power to
>transfer Mr. De Jes�s immediately to the Metropolitan
>Detention Center in Guaynabo, Puerto Rico as
>recommended by Mr. Dollinger. We hope to be able to
>receive an explanation about Mr. De Jes�s confinement
>situation and information about the status of his
>transfer.
>
>
>
>Cordially,
>

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2321
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-11-17 17:36:37
Subject:nb peoples' campaign meeting
Message:

peoples' campaign 2002

unite the many, 
defeat the few!

next meeting, 12 noon, saturday, 1 december
nb public library

contact cliff smith
214.8828
cliffsmith69@...








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2322
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-18 17:44:13
Subject:INGLES GRANMA: CUBA AT THE UNITED NATIONS
Message:

Thanks for this, Tracey!



***********************************************************************
November 14, 2001
CUBA AT THE UNITED NATIONS
Cooperation not war is the way forward

� STATEMENT DELIVERED BY HIS EXCELLENCY MR. FELIPE PEREZ ROQUE, MINISTER OF 
FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF THE REPUBLIC OF CUBA, AT THE GENERAL DEBATE OF THE 56TH 
SESSION OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE UNITED NATIONS, NEW YORK, NOVEMBER 
13, 2001

Mr. President:

Before delivering my statement, I would like to express our condolences to 
the United States, the Dominican Republic and other countries represented 
here that have lost citizens among the many passengers and crew members who 
perished in yesterday�s tragedy of American Airlines Flight 587 � and I 
hereby pass on these condolences to their families.

Mr. President:

The war in Afghanistan must be stopped. The Government of the United States 
must acknowledge that it has made a mistake � and must halt its ineffective, 
unjustifiable bombing campaign against that people.

As to its results, it would seem that this war has targeted children, the 
civilian population and the International Red Cross hospitals and facilities 
as enemies. As to its methods, no honest voice would rise in this hall to 
defend an endless slaughter � with the most sophisticated weaponry � of a 
dispossessed, starving, helpless people. As to its doubtful purposes, this 
war will never be justified from the point of view of ethics and 
International Law. Those responsible for it will one day be judged by 
history.

Cuba has opposed this war from the very beginning as an absurd, inefficient 
method to eradicate terrorism � and reiterates that it can only bring more 
hatred and ever-increasing dangers of new terrorist actions. No one has the 
right to continue murdering children, aggravating the humanitarian crisis, 
visiting impoverishment and death on millions of refugees.

If the United States obtained a military victory by eliminating all regular 
and irregular Afghan resistance � something that is not at all easy in 
practice and extremely costly at the moral level, for it would represent a 
real genocide without attaining the objective that we must pursue � the 
world would be farther away than ever from achieving peace, security and the 
eradication of terrorism.

Cuba�s discourse is not founded on ill feelings against the nation that has 
been our most embittered adversary for over forty years. It is inspired by a 
sincere constructive spirit and a sense of respect for and sympathy towards 
the people of the United States, which sustained the unjustifiable and 
atrocious terrorist attack. It is also based on the aspiration of peace and 
justice for all the peoples of the world.

What Cuba expresses in this hall � with full openness � may not be to the 
liking of those who run the United States today, but it will be understood 
one day by the American people, whose generosity and sense of justice were 
proven to the Cuban people when it had the support of 80% of the public 
opinion in this country in our struggle to prevent a kidnapped Cuban child 
from being uprooted from his family and subjected to ludicrous political 
manipulations and cruel psychological torture.

What Cuba says from this rostrum, we know it well, is what many people rumor 
in the corridors of this building.

What international coalition are we talking about? What is its legitimacy 
based on � if it has started by stridently disregarding the General Assembly 
of the United Nations? The United States has not fostered international 
cooperation. It has rather imposed its war on a unilateral basis and 
unwontedly stated that whoever does not second it is with terrorism. How 
long will the precarious support obtained last � not resulting from 
harmonized objectives and voluntary agreement, but from imposition through 
threats and pressures?

One can be the strongest, but not necessarily right. One can cause dread, 
but not sympathy and respect. Only from genuine international cooperation � 
in which all countries, big and small, participate with a full understanding 
of everyone�s positions; with broadmindedness and tolerance in the methods 
used; in the framework of the United Nations Organization and unflinchingly 
abiding by the principles enshrined in its Charter � can a truly effective 
and lasting alliance emerge to fight terrorism.

The world was surprised to learn of the official announcement of the United 
States to the Security Council that it reserved the right to decide on an 
attack against other countries in the future. What is left of the United 
Nations Charter after this? Can this unprecedented threat by any chance be 
interpreted as an exercise of the right to legitimate defense, enshrined in 
the Charter as the right of a State to deal with acts of aggression until 
the Council adopts the necessary measures and not as a vulgar excuse to 
unleash attacks against other countries? Is or is it not this announcement 
the proclamation of the right of a superpower to trample upon the already 
wobbly and incomplete standards governing sovereignty, security and the 
rights of the peoples?

Cuba rejects that language with poise and steadfastness. We have not done so 
out of concern for our own security � because there is no power in the world 
that can subdue our spirit of independence, freedom, social justice and the 
courage to defend it at any cost. We did so because we believe that it is 
still possible to halt the escalation of a useless, brutal war that 
threatens to further plunge the poor peoples of the planet into 
hopelessness, insecurity and death � who are by no means responsible for any 
act of terrorism, but will be � and already are � the main victims of this 
senselessness.

Only under the leadership of the United Nations will we be able to defeat 
terrorism. Cooperation and not war is the way. The coordination of actions 
and not imposition is the method. Our objective must be to obliterate 
terrorism by removing its root causes � and not the hegemonic assertion of 
the strength of a superpower, thus turning us into accomplices to its 
haughtiness and highhandedness.

Therefore, Cuba � which has already responded to the Secretary-General�s 
appeal by deciding to immediately ratify all of the international legal 
instruments on terrorism � determinedly supports the adoption of a general 
convention on international terrorism. Of course, this would only be 
possible in the context of this General Assembly � now absolutely ignored by 
the promoters of the new campaign, but which in the last ten years, with the 
silence and apathy of the Security Council, has seen the effective adoption 
of the main resolutions and declarations calling for an outright fight 
against terrorism.

That will finally allow us to define terrorism with accuracy. We have to 
prevent a few people with vested interests from trying to label as such the 
right of nations to fight for their self-determination or against foreign 
aggression. It must be clearly established that the support, abetment, 
financing or concealment of terrorist actions by a State is also an act of 
terrorism.

Cuba, while working to have its own anti-terrorism law in a short period of 
time, unreservedly endorses the announcement of an international conference 
on terrorism, under the aegis of the United Nations. This has been an old 
aspiration of the Non-Aligned Movement � and must enable us, as a result of 
open discussions, collective actions, respectful and non-discriminatory 
agreement; and not threat, terror and force, to find the way to fully 
eliminate terrorism and its causes; not only if committed against the United 
States, but also if undertaken against another country, even from the 
territory of the United States or with the leniency or complicity of its 
authorities, as has been Cuba�s painful experience for over four decades.

Mr. President:

Only four days ago, the Pakistani media attributed to a rather well-known, 
very familiar character in the United States, a statement supposedly made 
from Afghan territory saying that he is in possession of chemical and 
nuclear weapons and threatening to use them against the United States if 
similar weapons are used by that country against Afghanistan.

Everybody knows that Afghanistan does not have the slightest possibility to 
produce and launch nuclear or chemical weapons. Only a terrorist 
organization or leader could come up with the idea of executing an action of 
this kind with nuclear or chemical weapons. That is theoretically possible 
as it is also one of the consequences of the irresponsible behavior of major 
nuclear powers and of the arms trade, corruption and illegal traffic in all 
sorts of military technology. Several of these powers have acted as 
accomplices to and taken part in the traffic in fissionable material and the 
transfer of nuclear technology, as it suits their interests. However, under 
the concrete conditions of the war in Afghanistan, it would be ridiculous to 
resort to those threats and whoever did that would be signaling an enormous 
political and military ignorance. Lacking such means would make it a 
dangerous bluff, and having them would be an absolute madness to threaten to 
use them.

If such statements published by two Pakistani newspapers were true, they 
would deserve the strongest condemnation, even if such weapons were 
eventually used against Afghanistan. It would be a stupid reaction since in 
that scenario that suffering, impoverished country would only have the 
possibility to count on the universal rejection of the use of such weaponry. 
Such threats only serve the interests of the extremist and warmongering 
forces within the United States, which favor the use of the most 
sophisticated weapons of mass destruction against the Afghan people. The 
best weapon for a country under aggression is to earn and preserve the 
sympathy of the world, and not to allow anyone to violate the ethical 
principle that no one has any right to kill children, not even when others 
do it. There is no justice in killing innocent people to avenge the death of 
other innocents.

Cuba has stated, unhesitatingly, that it is opposed to terrorism and that it 
is opposed to war. Cuba, which is not under obligation to anyone, will 
continue to be consistent with its positions. Truth and ethics should 
prevail above all else.

The unfolding of events, and the multiplication of hatred, passions and 
potential dangers have come to show that it was absolutely right to assert 
that the war was not, is not and will never be the way to eradicate 
terrorism.

Mr. President:

The most critical socio-economic crisis that our planet has undergone, 
created halfway through the last decade by the strident and irreversible 
failure of neoliberalism and neoliberal globalization, has been dramatically 
aggravated by this war imposed by one, but whose consequences we all have to 
bear.

This war must be stopped not only for its consequences to the Afghan 
civilian population, but also for the dangers of destabilization in that 
region; not only to save thousands of Americans � particularly the young � 
Afghans and other nationals from a pointless death; not only to preserve an 
atmosphere of international peace and stability, but because this 
conflagration renders entirely impossible an objective proclaimed by the 
United Nations fifteen years ago: the right to development for all and the 
equality of opportunities to attain it. Because it renders obsolete the 
decision made only a year ago to work together in order to eliminate poverty 
from the face of the Earth.

Will we be willing to organize a coalition against poverty, famine, 
ignorance, diseases, the scourge of AIDS that is currently decimating the 
African continent; a coalition in favor of sustainable development, in favor 
of the preservation of the environment and against the destruction of the 
planet?

A coalition has been summoned to avenge the grievous death of over 4,000 
innocent people in the United States. Let us come together to seek justice 
against this major crime � and let us do so without a war; let us come 
together to save from death the hundreds of thousands of poor women who 
every year die at childbirth; let us come together to save from death the 12 
million children who die of preventable diseases every year in the Third 
World before the age of five; let us come together to take medications 
against AIDS to the 25 million Africans who are hopelessly awaiting death; 
let us come together to invest in development at least a portion of the 
billions already spent to carpet-bomb a country where almost nothing has 
been left standing.

Cuba demands that this General Assembly, the Security Council and the United 
Nations Organization as a whole deal once again, as top priorities, with the 
debate of these problems � which are crucial to the 4.5 billion inhabitants 
of the Third World, whose rights and hopes have also been buried under the 
rubble of the Twin Towers.

Mr. President:

Cuba reiterates its outright condemnation of the terrorist action committed 
last 11 September. Cuba reiterates its condemnation of terrorism in all its 
forms and manifestations. Cuba reiterates that it will not allow its 
territory to be ever used for terrorist actions against the people of the 
United States or of any other country.

Cuba has the morality to do it � because for over forty years it has 
suffered from terrorist actions; because in Cuba there are still relatives 
of the nearly 3,500 Cubans killed as a result of aggressions and terrorist 
acts; because justice is still demanded by over 2,000 Cubans rendered 
disabled by aggressions and terrorist acts. Some of its sons and daughters, 
who have fought terrorism, have been victims of cruel persecutions, 
relentless treatment and unjust and slanderous proceedings.

The people of the United States is a victim not only of terrorism and panic, 
but also of the lack of truthful information, manipulation and the 
questionable limitation of their freedoms. Cuba does not nurture any hatred 
towards the American people � which does not hold accountable for our 
terrorism-related suffering, the aggressions and the unfair economic war 
that we have been compelled to withstand almost a lifetime; and with which 
it shares the aspiration of one day having relations based on respect and 
cooperation.

Mr. President:

If anyone here takes offense at these words, uttered on behalf of a small 
generous, courageous people, I apologize. We speak in a straightforward 
manner. Words exist to uphold the truth, not to conceal it. We are 
rebellious against injustice and oppression. We have morality; we defend our 
ideas at the price of our lives. Our support for any fair cause can be 
obtained, but we cannot be subdued by force or through the imposition of 
absurd formulas or embarrassing adventures.

For many years now we have proclaimed that for us � Cubans � the historical 
dilemma is: "Patria o muerte!" Thence our confidence and security that we 
are and will continue to be a worthy, sovereign and fair people.

(Translated by ESTI)


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Post ID:2323
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-18 22:26:40
Subject:Re: [njfo] Re: Fwd: Re: amiri's question
Message:

keith, what is your position of the RED collective? -joe


>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>CC: can_bush@..., amirib@...
>Subject: Re: [njfo] Re: Fwd: Re: amiri's question
>Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 00:05:40 -0500
>
> > "  when they (Greens) sense their
> > increasing unpopularity." Cliff Smith
>
>Odd, this sense of "increasing unpopularity" doesn't usually seem to have 
>any effect on people's political lines.
>
>Keith
>
>
>


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Post ID:2324
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-18 22:33:59
Subject:Re: amiri's question
Message:

except that cliff's line was/is popular. see 2700 votes... w/no conciliation 
to republicans. or where you trying to point to something different? -joe



>From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@...>
>To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>CC: can_bush@..., amirib@...
>Subject: Re: [njfo] Re: Fwd: Re: amiri's question
>Date: Mon, 07 Jan 1980 00:05:40 -0500
>
> > "  when they (Greens) sense their
> > increasing unpopularity." Cliff Smith
>
>Odd, this sense of "increasing unpopularity" doesn't usually seem to have 
>any effect on people's political lines.

>Keith
>
>
>


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Post ID:2325
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-19 08:32:23
Subject:Re: Practice Will Determine Ideological Correctness
Message:

>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>

>Joe-
>
>We'll resolve these disputes in practice, if at all.  Disappointing as it 
>is, you've expressly stated that you're not interested in starting from a 
>point of unity, so what's the point of going in circles.

	Why do you feel that this form of debate has to do with "unity" as
	the principle aspect of the contradiction: unity & struggle?

- it doesn't. you have for years and continue to disrupt unity with me
- & cliff to serve your own opportunist ends.

where have i "expressly" stated that i'm not interested in starting from a 
point of unity? "it doesn't" is a fact, but no fault of mine. unless you 
want to point to something in my practice where i've disrupted unity with 
you.

>Maybe we'll have more success finding unity in practical work, and the rest 
>will get put out in front of the public.

what practical work are you dealing with?

>One last note-  Don't say I kicked you out of every organization you've 
>disagreed w/ me in- As for U&S, you & Cliff dug your own whole & you can 
>get out of it if you want, but not by responding to AB's
>ideological critique "F'you."

what ideological critique of amiri's are you refering to?
what organization, that you've had the majority in, have you not thrown me 
out of?

>As for our CDRP, the work we did nailing Rogers was important, but I left 
>it to you & SWORD when it became obvious to me that you weren't interested 
>in a united front model, rather another left-sectarian group with the same 
>1/2 dozen members as 3 other organizations.

what "made it obvious" that i wasn't interested in a united front? CDRP was 
the only organization i was in with you that you didn't have the majority 
vote & you ran in 2 weeks. what have you done to combat Racist Profiling 
since running from CDRP?

>Where is it now?

- CDRP threw NJ state trooper recruiter off RUcampus, home news article
- CDRP organized rallies and teach-ins on RUcampus, Larry Hamm was down
	here 	a few times to speak, multiple targum articles
- CDRP organized a commemoration to MLK forum, speakers included Joe
	Mosley, Larry Hamm, Reggie Johnson, Beverly Marshall, Cliff Smith,
	home news article
- CDRP led demonstrations against Verneiro, front page home news
- CDRP organized march on Trenton, put forward highest revolutionary
	line of the coalition for justice, made papers/news all over tri-
	state.

>As for the NBPC, I have acknowledged repeatedly that it was an 
>error,->-specifically, that the contention with SWORD's tactics should be 
>addressed openly & in public, but not through isolation--but you don't seem 
>to care and move foward, only to keep using it as a bludgeoning stick.  But 
>as I've said before, I no longer do penance.

no bludgeoning stick. just want you to take up for yours. even ^^this^^ 
statement passes the buck. who is curtis warren & why did he run for city 
council? why is frank bright on the NBHA? why didn't you press print? what 
is your contention with sword's tactics that you wish to address openly? 
(from the NBPC specifically, but other areas if you want)

>At the end of the day, if SWORD's line is correct, NBPC will become a 
>strong mass force for revolutionary transformation in NB, one capable of 
>organizing the people to seize political power.

what do you mean? your buddies are organizing to bury the NBPC and you 
haven't even put forward a position/exposure of them.

>It will be more productive to spend your energy proving yourself right 
>rather than trying to prove me wrong.

what? proving myself right about...??? proving you wrong about...???
U&S line is greens are right. Peoples war on the right. what do i have to 
prove. i am just pointing out to you that you again are bailing out on 
revolutionary positions with your opportunist line on greens.

>So, see you in the street.

i've been on the streets of newark at least 1/2 dozen times a month knockin' 
on doors, HAVEN'T SEEN YOU ONCE!

>PS- As for Cliff, he seems content to let you do his answering, only
>responding himself by grunting slogans. So I can't have much to say there, 
>except again, practice will tell. -Matt

you will take any excuse to run, Mr. Unity. again what practice are you 
involved in? besides figuring out how to best sabotage U&S's positions 
again.

don't think it wasn't noticed that the beat schundler article is the 
smallest article in the paper, hidden nicely on page six. wouldn't you think 
that the one article that gives the readership an important task to 
accomplish would be highlighted? -joe


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Post ID:2326
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-19 10:49:56
Subject:Latin@s and the War Forum
Message:

*******************
NO A LA GUERRA!!
NO TO WAR!!
*******************

The Latin@ Coalition for Peace with Justice is organizing a community forum 
on Friday November 30th;  We will be looking at how the war is effecting the 
latin@ community,  How can we build and support an anti-war/pro-peace 
movement?  We will also be looking at how this war is effecting the 
undocumented immigrant community and how we can support our young people 
throughout these difficult times?  we will also be looking at proposals for 
work and developing projects within our communities!

Join us for our Educational/Organizers' Forum; Help us build solidarity 
within the Latin@ community.  ALL ARE INVITED TO SHARE THEIR PERSPECTIVES!!

FRIDAY NOVEMBER 30TH, 2001 AT 7PM
2005 AMSTERDAM AVENUE 2ND FLOOR
(Between W159th St. and 160th St. in Manhattan)

For more information please email LatinCPJ@... or call 718-601-4751

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Post ID:2327
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-19 17:06:56
Subject:j&j race bias suit
Message:

Women: Dream job became nightmare

They are suing J&J, claiming race bias

11/17/01

BY DAVID SCHWAB
STAR-LEDGER STAFF

Linda Morgan went to work for Johnson & Johnson as a
student while earning an engineering degree at New
Jersey Institute of Technology in Newark.

After graduating in 1982, she said, she felt lucky to
get hired full- time, believing J&J was a place she
could work until retirement. Instead, after reaching a
position as a manager at J&J's Ethicon unit in
Somerville in 1992, she contends she was unfairly
passed over and never promoted again.

Now Morgan, 43, an African- American, and another J&J
worker, Nilda Gutierrez, 42, a Hispanic, have filed a
federal discrimination lawsuit against the New
Brunswick-based health-care company -- one of
America's biggest and most admired companies. The suit
contends minority workers were unfairly denied salary
increases and promotions.

"A lot of practices there have to change to treat
people fairly and justly," said Morgan, a Piscataway
resident. Both plaintiffs still work for the company.

In a statement, Johnson & Johnson said it will defend
itself and would investigate the charges. The company
said it was "particularly disappointed" a lawsuit was
filed because of its "commitment" to a "merit-based
work environment."

Their case could get added attention because it was
filed by a team of attorneys who won ground-breaking
discrimination cases against first Texaco in 1997 and
then Coca-Cola, which last May agreed to pay $192.5
million to settle.

"I know first-hand a case like this is an epic
struggle to bring about justice," one of the
attorneys, Cyrus Mehri, told a gathering of about 100
supporters and students yesterday at the St. James
Preparatory School in Newark.

Many wore buttons and hats reading "Journey for
Justice" in a logo very similar to that of Johnson &
Johnson. Supporters then rode a bus to New Brunswick,
where the two plaintiffs and their attorneys delivered
the complaint to attorneys at Johnson & Johnson's
corporate headquarters.

Another member of the legal team, Johnnie Cochran Jr.,
who defended O.J. Simpson, said the 36-page lawsuit
filed in U.S. district court in Newark presents "a
compelling story of injustice."

Cochran said "our exhaustive investigation" showed
Johnson & Johnson failed to follow its own well-known
credo -- adopted in 1943 -- to treat its employees
fairly.

Johnson & Johnson knew there were problems after the
company conducted a review in 1997, he said.

Attorneys for the plaintiffs said they expect the
Johnson & Johnson case to break new ground because
they are contending the company's board of directors
and senior managers were not paying attention.

In addition, they contend the company paid entry-level
African- Americans and Hispanics less, which put them
at a disadvantage for their entire careers.

The next step for the attorneys is to try to get a
federal judge to designate the lawsuit as a class
action. The attorneys believe at least 1,000 Johnson &
Johnson salaried workers who are African-American or
Hispanic -- out of about 40,000 salaried workers in
the United States -- could be part of the class.

Gutierrez, a resident of New Brunswick who graduated
from Douglas College, has worked for four years as a
recruiting consultant, earning $41,000 per year.

In the last four years, her salary has risen by
$1,400, while two other recruiters without college
degrees got salary increases of $20,000 and $40,000,
according to the lawsuit.

Gutierrez told the gathering she once thought of
Johnson & Johnson as "a dream company." But, she said,
"things happened I thought would never happen."


David Schwab covers the drug industry. He can be
reached at dschwab@... or at (973)
392-5835.




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Post ID:2328
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-20 00:10:36
Subject:Peltier Gift Drive
Message:

THE PROLIBERTAD FREEDOM CAMPAIGN URGES ALL OUR ALLIES AND SUPPORTERS TO TAKE 
PART IN THIS WONDERFUL  ENDEAVOR ORGANIZED BY  LEONARD PELTIER AND HIS 
SUPPORT CAMPAIGN.  PLEASE CONTRIBUTE TO THIS CAUSE AND ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO 
DO LIKEWISE!!

FREE LEONARD PELTIER!!
FREE ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS!!

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
****************************************************
Dear Supporters,

It is time for the Annual Leonard Peltier Gift Drive.

American Indian Political Prisoner, Leonard Peltier, has organized his
annual gift drive for the Children of the Pine Ridge Reservation in South
Dakota.

Please send: New Toys, Winter Clothing, Gloves, Jeans, Underwear, Sweaters,
Socks, Scarves, Jackets, Boots, Blankets, Thermals, Diapers of all sizes,
Walmart Gift Cards, etc.

Help Leonard reach out beyond prison walls and send a gift.� Please send
your items to Geraldine Janis and Roselyn Jumping Bull/Fedelia Cross,
members of the Leonard Peltier Defense Committee Elders Council.

Send Gifts to: Roselyn Jumping Bull/Fedelia Cross, P.O. Box 42, Oglala, SD
57764
�������������������� Geraldine Janis, P.O. Box 525, Pine Ridge, SD 57770

For more information contact: LPDC at 785-842-5774 or lpdc@... or
www.freepeltier.org.

Best Wishes,

The Leonard Peltier Defense Committee

Until Freedom Is Won!
The New Peltier Justice Campaign

Leonard Peltier Defense Committee
PO Box 583
Lawrence, KS 66044
785-842-5774
www.freepeltier.org






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Post ID:2329
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-20 11:25:52
Subject:Fwd: SOS-Joe
Message:

From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:50:57 -0400


[for other people reading, this is an exchange i am having that i
would like to be as open as possible with, if anyone has questions
i'll answer]

amiri, you wanna call me and cliff names when your edit board
refused to print during the 2000campaign? matt, keith, and louise
hung you&S out to dry- but it is myself and cliff who are called
names. in the past two  presidential elections where was U&S? why
did matt, keith, and louise push boycott in '96 with dung&fraud? why
did matt sabatoge you&S in 2000? why did keith run for city council
as a registered republican? why did matthew embrace republican
curtis and not the community of new brunswick for five/six years of
organizing? why does keith continue to organize with flavier on
flavier's terms? why is fraud speaking at the same rallies as keith
and noboby knows they have different lines about an election that is
in 20 days?

not only is your edit board historically fucked up as far as getting
out the U&S line, but it has also engineered expelling myself,
cliff, and many others from multiple organizations. their tightest
unity has come only through opposing us. and it continues in the RED
collective (flavier), an organization that exists only to oppose
SWORD and U&S. the RED collective has already engineered an
expulsion of SWORD from the anti-war coalition, no thanks to keith
who should be letting people know who xavier and RED collective are
and where they come from. all keith argues is that splits are bad...
not that the people calling for the splits, flavier, are
anti-progress and pro-republican. that the RED collective is
responsible for NB republican chair being appointed by trenton DCA
to NB Housing Authority (only republican to fill any position in new
brunswick in 30 years).

i want to see U&S with 2 open positions  - 1. who the RED collective
is and why they oppose the peoples independent political movement.
2. a self examination of the past 6 years of who U&S was wasn't and
is - along with specific answers to the above questions in ink.

you wanna say our differences are about the question of reparations.
you yourself say "white people aren't gunna let us have free
education alone, which is alright..." in a U&S video of yourself.
and because SWORD maintains that women's oppression is primary to
national and class oppression. though these are ideological
differences, that is differences between what you and i think, you
say SWORD cannot work on the edit staff of U&S based on these
differences. SWORD maintains that it must be our revolutionary
practice that brings us together, that forces doing revolutionary
work must embrace & unite. let our lines be argued openly in the
paper so the people can participate.

i said fuck you because you refered to me as an anarchist and
because you refered to cliff as an asshole and i don't appreciate
it.

revolutionaries unite 2001

joe smith
Student/Worker Organization for Revolutionary Democracy

>
>From: Amirib@...
>To: can_bush@...
>Subject: Re: [njfo] Fwd: [nbpc] Re:] SOS-Joe
>Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:51:06 EDT
>
>   A "simile" , like or as, is not the same as direct statement. You didn't 
>say "should I say something like "Fuck you". You can make a sound LIKE a 
>car and dont be that.
>Grammar 101
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2330
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-11-21 12:18:48
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: A Police Force Rebuffs F.B.I. on Querying Mideast Men
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


Beat Back Bush2!

can_bush@...


A Police Force Rebuffs F.B.I. on Querying Mideast Men

November 21, 2001 

By FOX BUTTERFIELD


The Portland, Ore., police will not cooperate in efforts to
interview young Middle Eastern men because such questioning
violates state law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/21/national/21PORT.html?ex=1007363128&ei=1&en=5bd121d070276fd0



HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
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or other creative advertising opportunities with The 
New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson 
Racer at alyson@... or visit our online media 
kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo

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help@....  

Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2331
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-22 09:05:22
Subject:watch your ass
Message:

Middlesex County

POLICE IN THE COUNTY will roll out their annual drunken-driving check points 
this week.

     Assistant Middlesex County Prosecutor Nicholas Sewitch said the police 
will be joined by investigators from the Prosecutor's Office to pull drunken 
drivers off the roads, deter drinkers from getting behind the wheel and 
educate drivers about the dangers of drinking and driving. Police will hand 
out fliers at the check points.

     Drivers could encounter check-points anytime and anywhere, Sewitch 
said. But the targeted time will be evenings and the early morning hours, 
when holiday revelers are most likely to drink.

     The checkpoints add to the safety of the roads in other ways, he said. 
Police also turn up unregistered cars, unlicensed anduninsured drivers and 
unsafe cars, he said.

      The state police will also set up drunken-driving checkpoints 
throughout the Thanksgiving weekend.

               -- Ken Serrano

               from the Home News Tribune

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2332
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-11-22 11:43:49
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: Police Are Split on Questioning of Mideast Men
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


duck season!

rabbit season!

if we do not eliminate the prevailing opportunist elements amongst our united front work, we'll all be in season. 

can_bush@...


Police Are Split on Questioning of Mideast Men

November 22, 2001 

By FOX BUTTERFIELD


Police chiefs are concerned that Attorney General John
Ashcroft's request that they help interview thousands of
Middle Eastern men seems like racial profiling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/22/national/22POLI.html?ex=1007447429&ei=1&en=03bc6d11b720980e



HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
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New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson 
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2333
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-22 10:25:40
Subject:ProLibertad Holiday Activity
Message:

PROLIBERTAD HOLIDAY GATHERING!!  JOIN US ON DEC. 15TH, 2001!!

Please help us raise money for the Puerto Rican Political Prisoner 
Commissary Fund!!
Food, Dancing, Music, Holiday Card making and Auctions!!  Please come and 
bring many many of your friends!!  We are going to have a great night!!

WHEN: Saturday Dec. 15th, 2001 at 7pm
WHERE: The Brecht Forum 122 w27th St. (btwn. 6-7th Avenues) 10th floor
DONATION: $10 (No one will be turned away)

For more info. on the ProLibertad Freedom Campaign please contact 
ProLibertad@...
Bronx 718-601-4751, Manhattan 212-927-9065, New Jersey 201-435-3244  
www.ProLibertad.org


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2334
Sender:Dwayne Middleton <nia7@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-22 11:35:30
Subject:[Fwd: MEET & GREET Jazz Great PHAROAH SANDERS 11.25.01 in Newark, NJ]
Message:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2335
Sender:Dwayne Middleton <nia7@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-22 12:24:48
Subject:[Fwd: Verse 4 Verse 11-28-01]
Message:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2336
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-22 23:55:47
Subject:FREE MUMIA!!-DEC. 8TH
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign urges all of our supporters to make it out 
to Philadelphia on Dec. 8th to support our brother Mumia Abu Jamal!!  Mumia 
needs all of our support now more than ever.  Please read, forward and 
mobilize to Philly on Dec. 8th.  Please keep in contact with the NY Free 
Mumia Coalition and ProLibertad for upcoming information on this 
demomstration!!

The proLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
_________________________________________

DECEMBER 8TH--MOBILIZATION TO FREE MUMIA!

December 9th marks 20 years since the capture of Mumia Abu-Jamal in
Philadelphia, framed for killing Police Officer Daniel Faulkner. On
Death Row since convicted by a kangaroo court on July 3, 1982, Mumia
gets out almost-daily written and spoken messages from behind the
wall, keeping his voice at the forefront of the Anti-War and
Anti-Racism Movement.

ON SATURDAY, DECEMBER 8th, IN PHILADELPHIA, activists from around the
U.S. will converge to protest "20 Stolen Years" and demand Mumia's
immediate release from prison.

                          DEMONSTRATE: 12 NOON
                          CITY HALL (ON MARKET STREET)

The demonstration comes at a time when a key legal battle is taking
place. Important new evidence has surfaced in recent months,including
a signed confession to the murder by someone else (Arnold Beverly).
Terri Maurer-Carter, a court reporter in 1992, has now come forward
to state that she overheard the trial judge, Albert Sabo, during an
informal conversation, say: "I'm going to help them fry the n----r."

BUT THERE IS NO LEGAL GUARANTEE that either the state or federal
judges involved in the case will allow any of this new evidence to
become part of the official record. Only loud and visible public
mobilizations of Mumia's supporters can pressure them to do the right
thing.

At a November 13th meeting, the newly-named NYC Coalition for Peace
and Justice voted to heed the appeal of International Concerned
Family and Friends of Mumia Abu-Jamal and postpone an action
originally proposed for December 9th by one week so it would not
conflict with the possibility of Anti-War activists from New York
City
mobilizing for December 8th in Philadelphia. It would be good if we
can follow up on this initial, important act of solidarity with a
commitment by as many folks as possible from NYC to attend the
December 8th action and show our support for this singular Death Row
case, for Mumia is one of us. Go to <freemumia.com> to download
Mumia's many Anti-War columns written since S11.

     For information on bus tickets from the New York Mumia Coalition,
            call the Coalition's hotline at 212-330-8029.









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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2337
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-23 10:35:30
Subject:Brothers, mayor's aide set for court Dec. 3
Message:

http://www.thnt.com/news/backstories.pl?paper=2&id=472482

NEW BRUNSWICK: Brothers, mayor's aide set for court Dec. 3

               Published in the Home News Tribune 11/23/01

               By SHARON WATERS
               STAFF WRITER

               Three New Brunswick brothers will be in court early next 
month to fight assault or disorderly conduct charges stemming from three 
separate incidents last fall.

               Joseph, Cliff and Matthew Smith will appear at 11 a.m. Dec. 3 
in Highland Park Municipal Court. The cases were transferred out of New 
Brunswick because one involves a city employee.

               Mayor James M. Cahill's aide Kevin Jones faces charges of 
harassment and assault for punching Joseph Smith in the face on Nov. 7, 
2000, outside the polling station at the Lord Stirling School. Jones has 
filed similar charges against Joseph Smith, contending the activist brought 
on the attack.

               The court date has been changed at least six times, according 
to Joseph Smith, an advocate to change the mayor-appointed school board to 
an elected body. He did not know the reason for the scheduling changes. 
Jones declined to comment earlier this week.

               High School Principal Pierre Embrey filed a complaint last 
year against Cliff Smith after the two quarreled near the high school on 
Sept. 20, 2000, when Cliff Smith was distributing literature to students and 
the principal told him to leave. Embrey charged Cliff Smith with verbal 
abuse, assault, and physically impeding the principal's pathway.

               Embrey could not be reached for comment.

               Matthew Smith was charged with disorderly conduct for 
activities on election morning last year.

               The three cases will be considered together, said Joseph 
Smith.

               Sharon Waters: (732) 565-7270. E-mail swaters@...

               from the Home News Tribune

               Published: November 23, 2001

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2338
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-11-24 12:12:41
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: Spain Sets Hurdle for Extraditions
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


BEAT BACK BUSH!!!		

can_bush@...


Spain Sets Hurdle for Extraditions

November 24, 2001 

By SAM DILLON with DONALD G. McNEIL Jr.


Spain has said that it will not extradite eight men charged
with complicity in the Sept. 11 attacks unless the U.S.
agrees to civilian trials.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/24/international/europe/24SPAI.html?ex=1007621961&ei=1&en=76980de44be7230e



HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
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or other creative advertising opportunities with The 
New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson 
Racer at alyson@... or visit our online media 
kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo

For general information about NYTimes.com, write to 
help@....  

Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2339
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-27 01:03:02
Subject:Support Eddie Hatcher!!
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is urging all of our supporters to join 
this fax campaign for Native American Political Prisoner Eddie Hatcher.  
Eddie's health has been very bad for a long time and he needs to be moved to 
another facility where they can treat him properly.  join the campaign to 
get Eddie moved to a better facility.

FREE EDDIE HATCHER!!
FREE ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS!!

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
__________________________________________________________

This is a call to action in support of native american
>PP eddie hatcher for info on his case go to
>
>www.eddiehatcher.org
>
>URGENT ALERT!
>It came to my attention yesterday that Eddie is now
>in a wheelchair from an undiagnosed leg disorder.
>He was told by medical staff at MCI that with his
>overall health condition, he should be at Central
>Prison.  -write, call, fax, or e-mail authorities to
>find out why Eddie cannot be
>relocated to Raleigh when there are several reasons to
>justify why he should??
>
>MASSIVE CALL AND FAX JAM BEGINING NOW!
>here are the targets and demands:
>
>
>1.Demand to know the current condition and whereabouts
>of eddie hatcher.
>2.Demand the move of eddie hatcher to a Raleigh prison
>3.Demand an end to the harassment of eddie by the
>staff of the prison .
>4.Demand a civil rights invesigation in the case of
>eddie hatcher.
>4.Let them know that you will not stop calling or
>doing other actions untill eddie is free and
>healthy.The whole world is watching.
>
>
>Mr. Sid Harkeleroad
>Superintendent
>Marion Correctional Institute
>Marion, NC 28752
>828-659-6814
>
>
>
>Mr. Franklin Freeman
>Governor's Chief of Staff
>20301 Mail Service Center
>Raleigh, NC 27699-0301
>919-733-6184
>
>
>Governor Michael F. Easley
>Office of the Governor
>20301 Mail Service CenterRaleigh, NC 27699-0301
>Fax: (919)715-3175 or (919)733-2120
>
>
>
>
>Senator Frank Ballance
>919-715-3032
>fax 919-856-9686
>
>
>Assistant U.S. Attorney General
>Civil Rights Division
>US Department of Justice10th & Constitution Ave, NW
>Washington, DC 20530(202) 514-2151
>
>WE WILL NOT SIT HERE AND LET OUR FELLOW FIGHTERS BE
>SENTENCED TO DEATH.PRISON IS ALSO A FORM OF LEAGAL
>LYNCHING WHEN IT INCORPRATES:HARASSMENT,ISOLATION,and
>TOURTOURE ,as in the case of Eddie Hatcher.
>Please FORWARD this message around the world and
>please if you can translate it into other languges for
>more info about eddie hatcher please vist
>www.eddiehatcher.org
>BASTA!


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2340
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-27 09:20:16
Subject:Fwd: [RUGreens] Re: Reminder - nb peoples' campaign meeting
Message:

>From: Joseph Kaminski <jkaminsk@...>
>To: joseph smith <can_bush@...>
>CC: RUGreens@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [RUGreens] Re: Reminder - nb peoples' campaign meeting
>Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:08:00 -0500 (EST)
>
>if all this shit about "what the people want" is true then why have the 
>democrats continued to control the city and win each time substantially ?  
>I don't walk down remsen street for the exact reason you mentioned in your 
>post.  Whats cool about having to be scared of walking down the street at 
>night ?  A crackdown couldn't make things any worse than they are now.  The 
>idea of police arresting people that commit crime doesn't sound to bad to 
>me.  Well, it'll be funny anyways watching all you lefty white kids 
>parading down college ave, promoting your radical bullshit, only to be 
>crushed...again... by the democrats.  Remeber the only group that will EVER 
>defeat the democrats is the Republicans, not "The people campaing" or the 
>"New Jersey Freedom Organization" or the "Radical Workers for democracy" or 
>whatever catchy name you morons come up with next election.

Joe Kaminski

On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, joseph smith wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > >From: Joseph Kaminski <jkaminsk@...>
> >
> > >fuck off commies, defeat the few ?  what the fuck are you talking
> > >about in the last election you idiot/hippies lost 76% to 24% to the 
>democrats,
> >
joesmith:
> > why you talkin' big, cracker? come see me.
> > i wasn't organizing with the peoples campaign last year.
> >
jkaminski:
> > >and you can gaurantee that most of that 24% came from rich white 
>Rutgers College and Douglass College students who feel "guilty" about 
> >whatever liberal whites are supposed to feel guilty about.
> >
joesmith:
> > i get the charts this week, but i doubt it. nobody feels guilty, fool, 
>we want democratic control over the institutions that govern our
> > lives/communities. and we will organize for such control - while 
>watching you climb, face first no less, into the ass of bush2. then you can 
>hang with the Colin & all the other shit you represent.
> >
jkaminski:
> > >Give me a break, what New Brunswick needs is a new republican mayor who 
>will try and get big business to re-invest in the area, and who will crack 
>down on crime.
> >
jsmith:
> > last republican candidate for mayor received 400 votes in 1998. quality 
>education & employment will eliminate crime - fuck you & your crackdown, we 
>wanna see you on remsen and throop ave promoting your shit and we'll see 
>who gets cracked down, cracker.
> >
jkaminski:
> > >New Brunswick definately DOES NOT need more people who are completely 
> >out of touch with reality and main-stream American Values and Politics, 
>to take charge of one of New Jersey's less desirable cities.
> >
jsmith:
> > it is racist/sexist republicans and backwards imperialist spokespersons 
>like yourself that are far from in touch with the needs of the people in 
>New Brunswick/internationally. Elected board of education, full 
>employment/living wage, affordable housing, civilian police control board, 
>voting rights for all residents, publicized redevelopment, union contracts 
>for all city endeavors, accessible recreational programs for all city 
>residents, and all other democratic programs that we can develop throughout 
>this city. -joe
> >
> >
> >
> > >On 24 Nov 2001 RUGreens@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
> > > >
> > > > nb peoples' campaign meeting
> > > >
> > > > Date: Saturday, December 1, 2001
> > > > Time: 12:00PM - 3:00PM EST (GMT-05:00)
> > > >
> > > > peoples' campaign 2002
> > > >
> > > > unite the many,
> > > > defeat the few!
> > > >
> > > > nb public library
> > > > contact cliff smith
> > > > 214.8828
> > > > cliffsmith69@...
> > > >

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2341
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-27 10:44:45
Subject:Fwd: Immigrant Meeting on Friday
Message:


>From: "Jeannette Gabriel" <jgabriel55@...>

There is going to be a meeting on Friday to discuss the attacks on civil 
liberties of all immigrants and all of us and the mass layoffs going on 
within the immigrant community.  This will be a planning meeting for a 
teach-in (or something more creative than that, street theater and protest) 
to take place before the end of the semester.  There will be immigrant 
workers and their supporters at the meeting and hopefully student activists!
   Please let me know if you are interested in putting this together, I'm 
trying to nail down a site for the meeting now and will post the finalized 
details tomorrow.  You can reach me at jgabriel55@... or 
609-406-7857 or Roland at 732-246-8405.
>Thanks!
>Jeannette Gabriel
>
>Jeannette Gabriel
>jgabriel55@...
>Workers Democracy Network
>http://www.workersdemocracy.org
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2342
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-27 22:19:44
Subject:people v. imperialism
Message:


>From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>

The only reason to reply to anything as loutish as this is because Joe Smith 
cops to U&S' real offense against the people: they think imperialism is 
stronger. (Maybe U&S and SWORD are on the outs this week, but it's Amiri 
Baraka's line.)

If you think the bourgeoisie are stronger than the people, what does this 
line of supporting the Democrats come down to? Subservience to the Dems and 
the bourgeoisie in spite of all fancy U&S rhetoric.

That's what they are trying to hide behind the personal abuse.

Oh yeah, by the way, Joe: the people are stronger than imperialism. That's 
what all their genuine adherents think.


>----- Original Message -----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>

thanks to all the greens frauds like yourself that didn't seize the
opportunity & organize to waste bush2 when we had the chance... wait a
second, i thought you said the people are stronger than imperialism?

is nadir going to be running for a second term, fraud? -joe


From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:12:10 -0500

It's not a "war against terror." It's a filthy bloody barbaric mess, and 
we're all being dragged down into it.
  http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/13/international/asia/13AFGH.html
<< ExecutionsofP.O.W._sCastDoubtsonAlliance.url >>

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2343
Sender:Christian Aliaga <incaindi@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-27 22:46:43
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] people v. imperialism
Message:

can you please take me off the rugreens mailing
list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanxs!!!

On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, joseph smith wrote:

> 
> 
> >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> 
> The only reason to reply to anything as loutish as this is because Joe Smith 
> cops to U&S' real offense against the people: they think imperialism is 
> stronger. (Maybe U&S and SWORD are on the outs this week, but it's Amiri 
> Baraka's line.)
> 
> If you think the bourgeoisie are stronger than the people, what does this 
> line of supporting the Democrats come down to? Subservience to the Dems and 
> the bourgeoisie in spite of all fancy U&S rhetoric.
> 
> That's what they are trying to hide behind the personal abuse.
> 
> Oh yeah, by the way, Joe: the people are stronger than imperialism. That's 
> what all their genuine adherents think.
> 
> 
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> 
> thanks to all the greens frauds like yourself that didn't seize the
> opportunity & organize to waste bush2 when we had the chance... wait a
> second, i thought you said the people are stronger than imperialism?
> 
> is nadir going to be running for a second term, fraud? -joe
> 
> 
> From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:12:10 -0500
> 
> It's not a "war against terror." It's a filthy bloody barbaric mess, and 
> we're all being dragged down into it.
>   http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/13/international/asia/13AFGH.html
> << ExecutionsofP.O.W._sCastDoubtsonAlliance.url >>
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RUGreens-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2344
Sender:Christian Aliaga <incaindi@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-27 22:48:04
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] people v. imperialism
Message:

please take me off your mailing list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, joseph smith wrote:

> 
> 
> >From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> 
> The only reason to reply to anything as loutish as this is because Joe Smith 
> cops to U&S' real offense against the people: they think imperialism is 
> stronger. (Maybe U&S and SWORD are on the outs this week, but it's Amiri 
> Baraka's line.)
> 
> If you think the bourgeoisie are stronger than the people, what does this 
> line of supporting the Democrats come down to? Subservience to the Dems and 
> the bourgeoisie in spite of all fancy U&S rhetoric.
> 
> That's what they are trying to hide behind the personal abuse.
> 
> Oh yeah, by the way, Joe: the people are stronger than imperialism. That's 
> what all their genuine adherents think.
> 
> 
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> 
> thanks to all the greens frauds like yourself that didn't seize the
> opportunity & organize to waste bush2 when we had the chance... wait a
> second, i thought you said the people are stronger than imperialism?
> 
> is nadir going to be running for a second term, fraud? -joe
> 
> 
> From: "David Hungerford" <dbh@...>
> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:12:10 -0500
> 
> It's not a "war against terror." It's a filthy bloody barbaric mess, and 
> we're all being dragged down into it.
>   http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/13/international/asia/13AFGH.html
> << ExecutionsofP.O.W._sCastDoubtsonAlliance.url >>
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RUGreens-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2345
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-11-28 10:21:47
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: U.N. Again Chastises U.S. on Cuba Trade
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


BEAT BACK BUSH!!

can_bush@...


U.N. Again Chastises U.S. on Cuba Trade

November 28, 2001 

By REUTERS


For the 10th year in a row, the General Assembly voted
overwhelmingly for an end to the United States trade
embargo against Cuba.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/28/international/americas/28CUBA.html?ex=1007960906&ei=1&en=6f3b625081100a13



HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters 
or other creative advertising opportunities with The 
New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson 
Racer at alyson@... or visit our online media 
kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo

For general information about NYTimes.com, write to 
help@....  

Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2346
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-11-28 10:38:11
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: New Interest in Florida Paintings by a Group of Black Artists
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


BEAT BACK BUSH

can_bush@...


New Interest in Florida Paintings by a Group of Black Artists

November 27, 2001 

By MARK DERR


For decades following World War II, Florida landscapes
shaped the state's popular image, but few knew that they
were largely the creations of self-taught, African-American
artists.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/27/arts/design/27ARTS.html?ex=1007961890&ei=1&en=af14e02f206f42e2



HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters 
or other creative advertising opportunities with The 
New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson 
Racer at alyson@... or visit our online media 
kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo

For general information about NYTimes.com, write to 
help@....  

Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2347
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-28 09:46:54
Subject:Fwd: Press Release Re: Lack of Preschool Funding
Message:



>From: PRABPreSchool@...
>To: GUILLO@...
>CC: PRABDeputy@..., PRABPreSchool@..., hdanj@...,        
>cliffsmith69@...
>Subject: Press Release Re: Lack of Preschool Funding
>Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:33:12 EST
>
>The press release re: the BOE lack of funding is attached.


_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2348
Sender:Dwayne Middleton <nia7@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-29 15:49:26
Subject:**Politic w/ Black Thought, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, & M1 @ Baraka Fundraiser
Message:

The Committee to Elect Ras Baraka
                    proudly presents

     "Hip Hop Artists For Ras
                    Baraka"

                     Meet and Greet
              LIVE, UP CLOSE & PERSONAL...

                 M1 of Dead Prez
                 Talib Kweli
                   Mos Def
                         and
  Black Thought of The Roots

                         at a
     Ras Baraka Campaign
         Fundraising Party

      Thursday, December 6, 2001
           Doors Open @ 7:00 pm


              Euphoria Cafe/Lounge
           17 Academy Street ~ Newark, NJ
           (between Broad and Halsey Streets)
       in Newark's Downtown Entertainment District

               General Admission: $50
               ($35 for the first 20 people)

 Come Politic With Some of Hip Hop's Most Activist Artists
                         and
      Support Baraka's Bid for Councilman-at-Large
                  At The Same Time!

                  Tickets Available At The Door
           For More Information About This Event or
   to Find Out How to Volunteer for the Baraka Campaign,
          Please Call 973.242.3920 or 973.242.1346
               or email rasjuabaraka2002@...

    Media inquires are directed to April Silver at 718.756.8501

                 "Still Taking It Personal!"
             Elections in May 2002 ~ Newark, NJ


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2349
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-30 09:16:11
Subject:Anti-Abortion Anthrax Outlaw
Message:

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/page1/ledger/1529a76.html


                     Outlaw accused of fake anthrax threats
                     11/30/01
                     BY MARK MUELLER
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

                     A self-styled "anti-abortion warrior" on the FBI's list 
of most wanted fugitives was identified yesterday as the chief suspect in 
the recent mass mailings of anthrax hoax letters to abortion providers 
across the country.

                     Clayton Lee Waagner, 45, a Pennsylvania survivalist who 
escaped from an Illinois jail in February, has admitted sending some 550 
letters to clinics and abortion-rights groups over the past two months, 
Attorney General John Ashcroft said.

                     Each of the letters, targeting abortion providers in 
New Jersey and 11 other states, contained a powdery substance the writer 
claimed was anthrax. Though lab tests for the bacteria ultimately proved 
negative, the mailings temporarily shuttered some clinics and added to fears 
spawned by a real anthrax-by-mail campaign that has killed five people.

                     "The Department of Justice considers Waagner's threats 
and all anthrax hoaxes to be serious violations of federal law," Ashcroft 
said at a Washington briefing. "Perpetrators of anthrax hoaxes and those who 
threaten abortion providers will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the 
law."

                     Ashcroft would not disclose how investigators learned 
of Waagner's alleged admission, saying only that the FBI developed the lead 
over Thanksgiving weekend.

                     But an anti-abortion activist from Georgia yesterday 
identified himself as the source of the tip.

                     Neal Horsley, who runs a notorious anti-abortion Web 
site known as the Nuremberg Files, said he notified authorities after 
Waagner visited his home in Carrolton, Ga., Nov. 23 and claimed 
responsibility for the mailings.

                     Horsley yesterday said Waagner showed him Federal 
Express packing slips as proof of his act. Horsley said he recorded his 
30-minute conversation with Waagner, who was armed with a handgun, and 
turned the tape over to police. He said he was later questioned for several 
hours by the FBI.

                     Beyond Waagner's admission in the anthrax scare, 
Horsley said, the fugitive claimed he had compiled a list of 42 abortion 
clinic employees he planned to kill.

                     "He called them the innocent ones," Horsley said. 
"They're people who don't perform abortions. They clean the floors, throw 
out the garbage. They might service the telephones. This was his whole 
reason for coming to me. He wanted people to know they were targets. He 
wanted to send a message."

                     An FBI spokesman in Washington referred all calls on 
Waagner and Horsley to the agency's Pittsburgh office, which is leading the 
probe into Waagner. A spokesman in that office, William Crowley, declined 
comment.

                     Waagner, described by the FBI as a resourceful 
outdoorsman and computer specialist, escaped Feb. 22 from the Dewitt County 
Jail in Clinton, Ill., where he was awaiting sentencing on federal firearms 
charges and other counts. A repeat offender, he was facing 15 years to life.

                     Authorities said Waagner used a comb to pick the lock 
on a jail door, then made his way to the attic and onto the roof. He 
eventually stole a car and fled, beating a massive manhunt.

                     Authorities have been looking for him ever since, twice 
missing him by one day at Pennsylvania hotels. The FBI said Waagner, who 
uses 53 aliases, has financed his flight by robbing banks.

                     Considered armed and dangerous, he is believed to be 
moving between Pennsylvania, where he has a wife and nine children in a 
remote northwestern town, and the South.

                     On Sept. 7, authorities said, Waagner abandoned a 
stolen car on a highway in Memphis, Tenn., after colliding with a 
tractor-trailer. Police later found a pipe bomb, guns and anti-abortion 
literature in the car.

                     Hours later, he allegedly carjacked a man in Tunica, 
Miss., about 40 miles southwest of Memphis. A nearby casino was evacuated on 
a tip that Waagner, a heavy gambler, was hiding there.

                     Officials with abortion-rights groups said yesterday 
that they're not surprised Waagner has been linked to the anthrax letters, 
which arrived in two waves in mid-October and early November, apparently 
timed to maximize fear following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on New York 
and Washington.

                     The first wave of 280 letters came through traditional 
mail and targeted women's clinics on the East Coast. The envelopes bore 
return addresses of the U.S. Secret Service or the U.S. Marshals Service and 
were stamped "Time Sensitive" and "Urgent Security Notice Enclosed."

                     A second wave of 270 letters arrived at clinics in the 
first and second week of November. All came by Federal Express and used the 
return addresses of Planned Parenthood and the National Abortion Federation. 
In all cases, the legitimate account numbers for those agencies were used.

                     Authorities said many of the letters were signed "Army 
of God," a loose affiliation of anti-abortion zealots who advocate the 
killing of abortion providers. Among the group's reputed members is James C. 
Kopp, accused of assassinating gynecologist Bernard Slepian in his Amherst, 
N.Y., home in 1998.

                     At his federal firearms trial in 1999, Waagner 
testified that God told him to "be my warrior" and to kill abortion 
providers. In June, four months after Waagner's escape, a message 
purportedly written by the fugitive appeared on the Army of God's Web site. 
In it, he threatened a bloody crusade.

                     "So the abortionist doesn't get the wrong idea, I don't 
plan on talking them to death. I'm going to kill as many of them as I can," 
the message said, prompting the National Abortion Federation to send out a 
national alert.

                     The FBI added Waagner to its "most wanted" list shortly 
afterward. Waagner also is one of the U.S. Marshals Service's 15 "most 
wanted" fugitives. Federal officials have offered a $50,000 reward for 
information leading to his capture.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2350
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-30 09:33:33
Subject:white supremacists move to NJ
Message:

White Supremacist Publishing Outlet Moves Operation from Idaho to Camden 
County

associated press, Thursday, November 20, 2001

COEUR D'ALENE, IDAHO--A white supremacist publishing and Internet operation 
based in northern Idaho that advocates the overthrow of the U.S. government 
has moved to New Jersey.

Katja Lane began operating 14 Word Press in 1995 at a remote chalet-style 
home she built on 50 acres outside St. Maries.

She declined to talk about why she moved the publication or her current 
relationship with David Lane, an imprisoned terrorist.

The 14 Word Press publication and Internet site have allowed David Lane to 
propagandize and recruit new racists while behind bars for life in the 
nation's most secure federal penitentiary, authorities said.

Katja Lane began looking for a new distributor of 14 Word Press publications 
in October after ending a relationship with business partner Ron McVan, 
according to Internet postings and law enforcement officials.

A week later, Lane said she was turning over the operation to Steve Wiegand 
in Maple Shade, N.J.

printed in the Newark Star-Ledger

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2351
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-30 13:04:31
Subject:Free Tito/Free the Cuban Five
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is calling on all our supporters and allies 
to take time to participate in both the letter writing campaign for Tito 
Kayak and to collect signatures for the freedom of the five Cuban Political 
Prisoners.  Now is the time to hit schools, churches, community centers and 
of course the streets.  only together and through active solidarity can we 
free all of our political prisoners and prisoners of conscience.

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
__________________________________________________________

FRIENDS IN SOLIDARITY WITH THE STRUGGLE OF VIEQUES.  FOLLOWING IS A LETTER 
WE RECEIVED ABOUT THE SITUATION OF OUR "TITO KAYAK".  PLEASE READ AND TAKE 
THE ACTIONS ASKED.


Tito Kayak was the first civil disobedient against the Navy presence on 
Vieques after the death of David Sanes (19 April, 1999).  Tito has been 
using different methods of peacefull civil disobedience since his protests 
against tranporting nuclear materiales in waters close to our island and 
other environmental issues.

The letter is self explanatory.  It�s important that the letter be sent 
betwen 28 and 30 November by fax to the office of the Secretary of Justice 
of the US (Numbers and instructions below).  Our hope is that during these 
days thousands of letters arrive at their destination.  This effort is one 
of many that seek not only the return of Tito to Puerto Rico but also his 
release from prison.  It is important to remember that while in the US, 
Judge Michaele Dollinger sentenced Tito to time served, Tito is serving in 
New York the remainder of the one year sentence for enetering restricted 
lands in Vieques.  All sentences against any Puerto Rican for these charges 
are unjust, but this is a case of particularly excessive abuse.

It is worth noting that on Sunday, I had the chance to speak with Tito�s 
father at the Church activity.  Don Frank is profoundly worried about the 
current situation of his son, whom he has not sen since August and with whom 
he communicates sporadically for a few minutes.  I cannot imagine the 
anguish of this father.

This effort that I ask of you is very littel compared with all that Tito has 
done for the struggle of Vieques.  As a last favor I ask you to send a note 
to Tito during this season.  Any note would be greatly appreciated.  His 
address is:

De Jes�s, Alberto 19580-069
Metropolitan Correction Center
150 Park Row
New York, NY  10007

Please print the letter to John Ashcroft, Attorney General, that appears 
above.   Send the letter by fax, signed and with a return address, to one of 
the following numbers:

                        202-514-0293
                        202-307-2572


Friends,This is a petition put out by the national Free theFive Coalition. 
Please print and circulate to as manypeople as possible and then mail the 
petitions to theaddress below.
Thank you,Tami Peterson
Free the Five NYC

Petition to President George W. BushPresident Bush,We call on you to release 
the Five Cubans: AntonioGuerrero Rodr�guez, Fernando Gonz�lez Llort, 
GerardoHern�ndez Nordelo, Ram�n Laba�ino Salazar and Ren�Gonz�lez Sehwerert, 
unjustly imprisoned inthe U.S. for defending the Cuban people 
againstterrorist acts.Petici�n al Presidente George W. BushPresidente 
Bush,Le hacemos un llamado para la liberaci�n de cincocubanos que han sido 
injustamente juzgados pordefender al pueblo de Cuba de actosterroristas y 
que se encuentran actualmente presos enc�rceles norteamericanas.  Sus 
nombres son AntonioGuerrero Rodr�guez, Fernando Gonz�lez Llort, 
GerardoHern�ndez Nordelo, Ram�n Laba�inoSalazar y Ren� Gonz�lez 
Sehwerert.Name/Nombre

Address/Direcci�n      
City/CiudadCountry/Pa�s_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Please mail the petition back to:  Free the Five!Committee  (This is not an 
e-mail petition) 2489Mission St., Room 24, San Francisco, CA 94110, USAPor 
favor env�e la patici�n por correo al Comit�Libertad para los Cinco! (No 
env�e esta petici�n atrav�z de correo electr�nico) 2489 Mission St., Room24, 
San Francisco, CA 94110, USA










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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2352
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-11-30 17:13:13
Subject:Free the VIsland 12
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is calling on all our supporters to read, 
participate in and forward out this email to all your personal listserves 
and e-lists.  As Boricuas, we can sympathize with the fight for Independence 
that the 12 Virgin Island Political Prisoners are imprisoned for.  together, 
in solidarity we can free the VIslands and Puerto Rico from colonialism!!

FREE ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS!!

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
www.ProLibertad.org will be up and running again soon.
____________________________________________________________________

12 prisoners from the Virgin Islands being held at
Wallens Ridge State Prison in Virginia begin hunger
strike on November 1, 2001!

   Backround:
   The Virgin Islands (V.I.) had, before the these
past  couple of months, been renting out cells in the
Untied  States for its own overcrowded prison
population.
   This has been going on for decades and the V.I. has
run up a huge bill with the U.S.
   So the V.I. decided to bring all its prisoners back
home.
   There is a catch: those prisoners the V.I. deemed
to  be too dangerous were sent to the Commonwealth of
Virginia for further holding.
   On November 1, 2001 12 prisoners at the Wallens
Ridge State Prison in Big Stone Gap, Virginia began a
hunger strike in protest of
�the capricious and unjust transfer of 15 Virgin
Islands Prisoners to this conservative and bigoted run
prison�
   The 12 currently on hunger strike are not aware of
the whereabouts of 3 of their comrades, who might also
be on hunger strike with them (if they recieved word
of it).
   Hanif Bey, a prisoner of war on the strike writes:
  �We would like to hold out for at least 1 month, to
bring outside attention, and hopefully cause the
�Contract Agreement� to be dissolved, however, if we
are not satisfied at the end of the month, with the
steps taking place to grant us �proper relief�, we
have the resolve to continue.

   We have all been hand picked to be warehoused in
this death trap, simply to secure �settler interest�
in the U.S. Virgin Islands, as they really deem us a
potentially influential political force, if allowed to
return.�
   Hanif is fighting for Virgin Island independance.
Currently these men are locked in their cells 23
hours a day, and wear handcuffs and legchains whenever
they leave their cell.
   The wording of the contract allows the prisoners to
be held in Virginia indefinantly.
   The contract lasts for a year and if it is not
terminated in the 11th month it is automatically
continued for one more year.
   It seems that these prisoners are being kept in
segregation permanantly.
   The Commonwealth of Virginia rents out its cells at
differnt rates.
   Segregation costs less than general population.
  These prisoners need our support.
   Share this information, and write a letter to:
   Stan Young, Warden
   P.O. Box 759
   Big Stone Gap, VA
   24219 or call him at:
  (340) 523-3310
to show your solidarity with this hunger strike.
   Also write to V.I. officials and ask that these
prisoners be brought home to the V.I.
   Mr. Iver Stridiron,
   Attorney General,
   Virgin Islands Department of Justice,
   St. Thomas, Virgin Islands 00801




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2353
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-01 12:28:21
Subject:ProLibertad Activity/Mumia Activity
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is organzing a special Holiday gathering 
for Dec. 15th, 2001!!

Please join us on this special occasion and help us raise Money for the 
ProLibertad Commissary Fund for the Puerto Rican Political Prisoners!!  we 
have FUN, MUSIC, FOOD, AND SPECIAL ARTISAN AUCTIONS!!

JOIN US AND MAKE THE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS HOLIDAYS A LITTLE 
BETTER!!

Saturday Dec. 15th, 2001 at 7pm
The Brecht Forum 122 w27th St. (6-7th Avenues)on the 10th fl
$10 donation, but no one will be turned away
For more info. contact ProLibertad@...
Bronx 718-601-4751, manhattan 212-927-9065, New Jersey 201-435-3244

_______________________________________________________________

A Tribute to 20 Years of Resistance from Death Row

Sunday, December 9
2 PM
NYU Law School
Vanderbilt Hall, Room 206
(corner of West 4th & MacDougal)
Donation requested

Refuse & Resist! invites you to join with:

Amy Goodman
journalist and host of Deomcracy Now!

Terry Bisson
author of Mumia's biography, on a move: The Story of
Mumia Abu-Jamal

Frances Goldin
literary agent for Mumia Abu-Jamal

Debra Sweet
Refuse & Resist!

Chris Martin
National Lawyer's Guild, NY Law School Chapter

December 9, 2001, will mark 20 years since the
incarceration of Mumia Abu-Jamal, with most of this
time spent locked down on death row.  To be held for
20 years, in conditions of isolation and under
constant threat of execution, is itself a form of
cruel and degrading torture.  To have this happen as
the result of a trial that Amnesty International has
called a travesty of justice is an outrage against
human rights.

Already targeted by police and the FBI from the age of
15 for his opposition to racism and concern for
justice, Mumia has championed the people, exposed
police brutality and countless other injustices, and
became known as "the voice of the voiceless".  This
was true in 1981 when he was targeted by police in the
first place, and it's even more true now. From death
row Mumia, through his voice, his writings and his
firm stand has come to represent the aspirations of
people for a better world. In today's political
climate with all of the government's attempts to
suppress dissent, Mumia, the voice of the voiceless,
is more precious than ever to the people.

Stop the Execution! Overturn the Conviction!
Free Mumia Abu-Jamal!

Contact Refuse & Resist! at www.refuseandresist.org or
email the NY chapter at rnrnyc@...
or call 212-713-5657.

The event is cosponsored by National Lawyers Guild chapters at NY Law
and NYU Law Schools.








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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2354
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-01 19:06:58
Subject:home news on NBPC meeting
Message:

      NEW BRUNSWICK: People's Campaign meet today about City elections

      Published in the Home News Tribune 12/01/01

               By SHARON WATERS
               STAFF WRITER

               The New Brunswick People's Campaign will meet today at noon 
to begin developing a strategy for next year's local elections for mayor and 
City Council.

               The group also plans to try to put a public question on the 
ballot about an elected school board, an issue NBPC has advocated in the 
past.

               The meeting will be held at the New Brunswick Free Public 
Library.

               A press release sent by the group notes a split between the 
NBPC and the Campaign for an Elected Board of Education has been mended 
because the "NBPC has acknowledged its error in aligning with the local 
Republican Party." The fallout between the two groups occurred after the May 
2000 NBPC convention.

               "Republican Party members are now unwelcome in the NBPC 
though anyone is welcome to join if they renounce Republican Party 
membership," states the release sent by NBPC spokesman Joe Smith.

               The NBPC says it supports community control over education, 
police and housing plus equal rights for women, immigrants and minority 
residents.

               from the Home News Tribune

               Published: December 1, 2001

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2355
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-01 19:20:06
Subject:letter to editor printed
Message:

http://www.thnt.com/news/backstories.pl?id=476064&paper=2

	Planner stooge for city machine

	I must set the record straight as far as Director of Planning Glenn 
Patterson's illusions about New Brunswick demonstrated in his Nov. 10 letter 
to the editor.

	The New Brunswick city machine, which employs Patterson, is controlled by 
Johnson & Johnson and does not represent the people of the city. The entire 
redevelopment/"revitalization" is in no way representative of the will of 
the residents of New Brunswick.

	The residents have never had any say on the redevelopment process that so 
often evicts, displaces, unemploys and removes many from the city entirely.

	Democracy, not New Brunswick Development Corp. nor New Brunswick Tomorrow, 
needs to head this redevelopment process. Is someone afraid of New Brunswick 
residents having control over New Brunswick redevelopment? Those afraid of 
the people's vote are the people's enemy.

	Devco and New Brunswick Tomorrow, both dubbed public/private partnerships, 
really have no public identity because there is no public input on those 
boards, let alone the projects these boards contract. Reality shows that 
these organizations are completely dominated by multibillion-dollar 
international corporations -- J&J, Rutgers University, Bristol-Myers Squibb, 
Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital, the University of Medicine and 
Dentistry of New Jersey -- that can never represent the interests of the 
people.

	So please, Mr. Patterson, explain why there is no citywide vote for all 
residents on redevelopment projects and on those boards that run these 
projects.

	This summer, the New Brunswick Homes public-housing projects were 
demolished to make way for new "public" housing. Former public housing 
residents were served multiple eviction notices because the city machine 
reneged on its plan to build new housing for the Homes residents to move 
directly into. The city machine also refused to find suitable housing units 
for these families whom Patterson now claims to have helped. If it were not 
for citywide resistance to these criminal evictionattempts dozens of 
families would have been on the streets.

               Joe Smith
               NEW BRUNSWICK

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2356
Sender:"Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-02 21:34:47
Subject:New Brunswick People's Campaign article of 12/1/01
Message:

Dear Sharon:

I read with great interest your article of Saturday, December 1, 2001, concerning the New Brunswick People's Campaign.  I am afraid, however, that one our members, Joseph Smith, has misstated to you the current nature of the organization.

In particular, the New Brunswick People's Campaign has not held any lawful membership meetings since September 2001.  Mr. Smith, who is part of a small extremist faction of the group, had requested that the leadership of the group call a general meeting of members.  This request was made to the leadership of the group (i.e. its Steering Committee), lawfully elected at its February 10, 2001 meeting.  Since that time, the Committee has included, and is presently comprised of Thomas DeGloma, Xavier Hansen, Eryn Loeb, Julie Poulos, Danny Rosado and Curtis Warren.

Among the reasons that the Steering Committee rejected Mr. Smith's request for a meeting is because the Steering Committee has been re-assessing the group's role in the New Brunswick political process.  In particular, the leadership of the group presently intends to dissolve the New Brunswick People's Campaign.  These members of the leadership, along with other members of the New Brunswick and Rutgers communities intend to form a new entity, broadening our extensive base of political support in New Brunswick, in preparation for the 2002 elections.  This new entity intends to run candidates for mayor and council as well as to place a public question on the November 2002 ballot as an initiative and referendum.  Although it is still examining this issue, this new group presently has no intention of running the school board question on the 2002 ballot.

Turning back to Mr. Smith, when his request for a meeting was rejected, he unilaterally called one or two gatherings, including the most recent event on December 1.  I have heard from a reliable source that only two people appeared at yesterday's gathering.  In any event, since no member has the authority to unilaterally call a meeting, the elected leadership of the organization, with my support as attorney for the group, does not recognize these gatherings called by Mr. Smith as lawful meetings.  Likewise, the elected Steering Committee, based on the established rules and procedures of the group, does not recognize any decision taken at such gatherings as lawful decisions of the group.  Contrary to the claims made by Mr. Smith in your article, there has been no lawful decision by NBPC to expel Republicans, nor has a decision been made to run the elected school board question in the 2002 election.  Indeed, I think that his most recent shenanigans in attempting to mislead you, Mr. Smith and his extremist cohorts will only isolate themselves further.  Our group has always been committed to bringing progressive and meaningful change to a united New Brunswick.  Mr. Smith's unsound objectives appear only to be bring division and contempt to the political process.

If you have further questions about this you can contact me or any of the Steering Commitee members listed above.

Flavio L. Komuves
General Counsel




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2357
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-03 07:37:11
Subject:Re: [nbpc] New Brunswick People's Campaign article of 12/1/01
Message:

for clarification purposes-

keith, zofia, & luceno - all not part of my faction - were all at the 
general meeting where your steering committee was abolished & replaced. at 
this general membership meeting was when the next meeting was  called for. i 
requested nothing from the old leadership, the meeting was called for by the 
general body.

funny a lawyer should be sending out this bizarre letter on a day when 3 
campaign members have trial that this lawyer refuses to represent. -joe

>From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <swaters@...>
>CC: <nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com>, <tdegloma@...>, 
><citruswar@...>, <juliepoulos@...>, <redgrrrl500@...>, 
><xavier_hansen@...>, <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [nbpc] New Brunswick People's Campaign article of 12/1/01
>Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 21:34:47 -0500
>
>Dear Sharon:
>
>I read with great interest your article of Saturday, December 1, 2001, 
>concerning the New Brunswick People's Campaign.  I am afraid, however, that 
>one our members, Joseph Smith, has misstated to you the current nature of 
>the organization.
>
>In particular, the New Brunswick People's Campaign has not held any lawful 
>membership meetings since September 2001.  Mr. Smith, who is part of a 
>small extremist faction of the group, had requested that the leadership of 
>the group call a general meeting of members.  This request was made to the 
>leadership of the group (i.e. its Steering Committee), lawfully elected at 
>its February 10, 2001 meeting.  Since that time, the Committee has 
>included, and is presently comprised of Thomas DeGloma, Xavier Hansen, Eryn 
>Loeb, Julie Poulos, Danny Rosado and Curtis Warren.
>
>Among the reasons that the Steering Committee rejected Mr. Smith's request 
>for a meeting is because the Steering Committee has been re-assessing the 
>group's role in the New Brunswick political process.  In particular, the 
>leadership of the group presently intends to dissolve the New Brunswick 
>People's Campaign.  These members of the leadership, along with other 
>members of the New Brunswick and Rutgers communities intend to form a new 
>entity, broadening our extensive base of political support in New 
>Brunswick, in preparation for the 2002 elections.  This new entity intends 
>to run candidates for mayor and council as well as to place a public 
>question on the November 2002 ballot as an initiative and referendum.  
>Although it is still examining this issue, this new group presently has no 
>intention of running the school board question on the 2002 ballot.
>
>Turning back to Mr. Smith, when his request for a meeting was rejected, he 
>unilaterally called one or two gatherings, including the most recent event 
>on December 1.  I have heard from a reliable source that only two people 
>appeared at yesterday's gathering.  In any event, since no member has the 
>authority to unilaterally call a meeting, the elected leadership of the 
>organization, with my support as attorney for the group, does not recognize 
>these gatherings called by Mr. Smith as lawful meetings.  Likewise, the 
>elected Steering Committee, based on the established rules and procedures 
>of the group, does not recognize any decision taken at such gatherings as 
>lawful decisions of the group.  Contrary to the claims made by Mr. Smith in 
>your article, there has been no lawful decision by NBPC to expel 
>Republicans, nor has a decision been made to run the elected school board 
>question in the 2002 election.  Indeed, I think that his most recent 
>shenanigans in attempting to mislead you, Mr. Smith and his extremist 
>cohorts will only isolate themselves further.  Our group has always been 
>committed to bringing progressive and meaningful change to a united New 
>Brunswick.  Mr. Smith's unsound objectives appear only to be bring division 
>and contempt to the political process.
>
>If you have further questions about this you can contact me or any of the 
>Steering Commitee members listed above.
>
>Flavio L. Komuves
>General Counsel
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2358
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-03 08:04:43
Subject:Fwd: proposal
Message:

--- In njfo@y..., "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...> wrote:
I support this proposal.
I think that it should also be developed into principles of unity or a 
statement of purpose. This should be the top of the agenda on Sat.

Keith


>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, nbpcmembers@y..., 
>njfo@egroups.com
>Subject: [nbpcmembers] proposal
>Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:02:45 +0000
>
>proposal to nbpeoplescampaign.
>to be voted sat., 8/25
>
>
>the objective of the nbpeoplescampaign is peoples' democracy and political power.
>
>this objective is expressed in the community's slogans: "put people 
>first!", "community control!", & "unite, organize, seize power!"
>
>as allies the nbpc has the democratic forces of the peoples.
>
>as enemies the nbpc has the representatives of monopoly 
>capital/imperialism.
>
>the nbpc will make strategic alliances w/all democratic forces & tactical alliances w/all democratic tendencies.
>
>the strategy of the peoples campaign is principally to challenge in 
>winnable elections for peoples' representation.  &to pin the democratic party on the republican party in those elections in which we cannot yet win.
>
>immediately, this means to support ras baraka for nwk council, may '02.  to smash schundler! keep mcgreasy in the fire! in nov. '01.  then to take nb elected school board, mayor & 2council seats in nov. 02.  also to develop in hp &elsewhere.
>
>all alliances w/ republican representatives &positions by nbpc leadership were/are anti-democratic deviations at the peoples' expense.  one cannot simultaneously uphold the republican party platform & peoples' democracy. the nbpc must establish itself on an uncompromising democratic basis w/ uncompromising democratic leadership.
>
>all nbpc officers who fail to fully criticize &correct these backward
>schemes &methods must be immediately replaced.  nominations shd be taken immediately for steering committee &campaign chair, to be voted in sept. mtg.
>
>cliff smith
>student/worker organization for revolutionary democracy
>8/20
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/
intl.asp
--- End forwarded message ---








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2359
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-03 08:39:47
Subject:Re: New Brunswick People's Campaign article of 12/1/01
Message:

--- In njfo@y..., "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...> wrote:

I support this proposal.
I think that it should also be developed into principles of unity or a
statement of purpose. This should be the top of the agenda on Sat.

Keith


From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>

proposal to nbpeoplescampaign.
to be voted sat., 8/25

the objective of the nbpeoplescampaign is peoples' democracy and political 
power.

this objective is expressed in the community's slogans: "put people
first!", "community control!", & "unite, organize, seize power!"

as allies the nbpc has the democratic forces of the peoples.

as enemies the nbpc has the representatives of monopoly
capital/imperialism.

the nbpc will make strategic alliances w/all democratic forces & tactical 
alliances w/all democratic tendencies.

the strategy of the peoples campaign is principally to challenge in
winnable elections for peoples' representation.  & to pin the democratic 
party on the republican party in those elections in which we cannot yet win.

immediately, this means to support ras baraka for nwk council, may '02.  to 
smash schundler! keep mcgreasy in the fire! in nov. '01.  then to take nb 
elected school board, mayor & 2council seats in nov. 02.  also to develop in 
hp & elsewhere.

all alliances w/ republican representatives & positions by nbpc leadership 
were/are anti-democratic deviations at the peoples' expense.  one cannot 
simultaneously uphold the republican party platform & peoples' democracy. 
the nbpc must establish itself on an uncompromising democratic basis w/ 
uncompromising democratic leadership.

all nbpc officers who fail to fully criticize &correct these backward
schemes & methods must be immediately replaced.  nominations shd be taken 
immediately for steering committee & campaign chair, to be voted in sept. 
mtg.

cliff smith
student/worker organization for revolutionary democracy
8/20


>From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <swaters@...>

>Dear Sharon:
>
>I read with great interest your article of Saturday, December 1, 2001, 
>concerning the New Brunswick People's Campaign.  I am afraid, however, that 
>one our members, Joseph Smith, has misstated to you the current nature of 
>the organization.
>
>In particular, the New Brunswick People's Campaign has not held any lawful 
>membership meetings since September 2001.  Mr. Smith, who is part of a 
>small extremist faction of the group, had requested that the leadership of 
>the group call a general meeting of members.  This request was made to the 
>leadership of the group (i.e. its Steering Committee), lawfully elected at 
>its February 10, 2001 meeting.  Since that time, the Committee has 
>included, and is presently comprised of Thomas DeGloma, Xavier Hansen, Eryn 
>Loeb, Julie Poulos, Danny Rosado and Curtis Warren.
>
>Among the reasons that the Steering Committee rejected Mr. Smith's request 
>for a meeting is because the Steering Committee has been re-assessing the 
>group's role in the New Brunswick political process.  In particular, the 
>leadership of the group presently intends to dissolve the New Brunswick 
>People's Campaign.  These members of the leadership, along with other 
>members of the New Brunswick and Rutgers communities intend to form a new 
>entity, broadening our extensive base of political support in New 
>Brunswick, in preparation for the 2002 elections.  This new entity intends 
>to run candidates for mayor and council as well as to place a public 
>question on the November 2002 ballot as an initiative and referendum.  
>Although it is still examining this issue, this new group presently has no 
>intention of running the school board question on the 2002 ballot.
>
>Turning back to Mr. Smith, when his request for a meeting was rejected, he 
>unilaterally called one or two gatherings, including the most recent event 
>on December 1.  I have heard from a reliable source that only two people 
>appeared at yesterday's gathering.  In any event, since no member has the 
>authority to unilaterally call a meeting, the elected leadership of the 
>organization, with my support as attorney for the group, does not recognize 
>these gatherings called by Mr. Smith as lawful meetings.  Likewise, the 
>elected Steering Committee, based on the established rules and procedures 
>of the group, does not recognize any decision taken at such gatherings as 
>lawful decisions of the group.  Contrary to the claims made by Mr. Smith in 
>your article, there has been no lawful decision by NBPC to expel 
>Republicans, nor has a decision been made to run the elected school board 
>question in the 2002 election.  Indeed, I think that his most recent 
>shenanigans in attempting to mislead you, Mr. Smith and his extremist 
>cohorts will only isolate themselves further.  Our group has always been 
>committed to bringing progressive and meaningful change to a united New 
>Brunswick.  Mr. Smith's unsound objectives appear only to be bring division 
>and contempt to the political process.
>
>If you have further questions about this you can contact me or any of the 
>Steering Commitee members listed above.
>
>Flavio L. Komuves
>General Counsel
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2360
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-03 14:04:25
Subject:Re: New Brunswick People's Campaign article of 12/1/01
Message:

Whether or not a particular person is "at a meeting" does not 
determine whether the meeting was lawful or not.  The last lawful 
meeting of NBPC occurred on September 8, 2001.  You stated to me in a 
private email that the alleged replacement of the Steering Committee 
occurred at the October meeting, whenever that date was, which you 
claimed you couldn't remember.

What I find unbelievable, Joe, is that you claim there was (a) a 
removal of the existing SC; (b) election of a new SC; (c) expulsion 
of Republicans; (d) a decision to work on school board for 2002.  You 
never announced any of these facts on nbpcmembers or 
nbpeoplescampaign before last week.  You want us to believe that this 
huge sea change occurred in the organization, and yet you posted 
nothing about it on the groups contemporaneously.  Get real!  We're 
not falling for your nonsense.

You are NOT the spokesperson for the group.  You are NOT on the 
Steering Committee.  You can NOT unilaterally call meetings.  The 
events you have called are NOT lawful meetings.  You are simply one 
member of the group, at least until we expel you again for this 
utterly embarrassing fiasco with the newspaper that you have caused!  
Notwithstanding your letter to the editor from Saturday, for which I 
thank you, episodes like this demonstrate that on the whole, you and 
your extremist friends are a pathetic embarrasment to progressive 
forces in New Brunswick.

As for the decision not to have an NBPC attorney represent you, I 
cannot disclose those reasons in an open forum.




--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> for clarification purposes-
> 
> keith, zofia, & luceno - all not part of my faction - were all at 
the 
> general meeting where your steering committee was abolished & 
replaced. at 
> this general membership meeting was when the next meeting was  
called for. i 
> requested nothing from the old leadership, the meeting was called 
for by the 
> general body.
> 
> funny a lawyer should be sending out this bizarre letter on a day 
when 3 
> campaign members have trial that this lawyer refuses to represent. -
joe
> 
> >From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: <swaters@t...>
> >CC: <nbpcmembers@y...>, <tdegloma@h...>, 
> ><citruswar@a...>, <juliepoulos@y...>, <redgrrrl500@h...>, 
> ><xavier_hansen@h...>, <nbpeoplescampaign@y...>
> >Subject: [nbpc] New Brunswick People's Campaign article of 12/1/01
> >Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 21:34:47 -0500
> >
> >Dear Sharon:
> >
> >I read with great interest your article of Saturday, December 1, 
2001, 
> >concerning the New Brunswick People's Campaign.  I am afraid, 
however, that 
> >one our members, Joseph Smith, has misstated to you the current 
nature of 
> >the organization.
> >
> >In particular, the New Brunswick People's Campaign has not held 
any lawful 
> >membership meetings since September 2001.  Mr. Smith, who is part 
of a 
> >small extremist faction of the group, had requested that the 
leadership of 
> >the group call a general meeting of members.  This request was 
made to the 
> >leadership of the group (i.e. its Steering Committee), lawfully 
elected at 
> >its February 10, 2001 meeting.  Since that time, the Committee has 
> >included, and is presently comprised of Thomas DeGloma, Xavier 
Hansen, Eryn 
> >Loeb, Julie Poulos, Danny Rosado and Curtis Warren.
> >
> >Among the reasons that the Steering Committee rejected Mr. Smith's 
request 
> >for a meeting is because the Steering Committee has been re-
assessing the 
> >group's role in the New Brunswick political process.  In 
particular, the 
> >leadership of the group presently intends to dissolve the New 
Brunswick 
> >People's Campaign.  These members of the leadership, along with 
other 
> >members of the New Brunswick and Rutgers communities intend to 
form a new 
> >entity, broadening our extensive base of political support in New 
> >Brunswick, in preparation for the 2002 elections.  This new entity 
intends 
> >to run candidates for mayor and council as well as to place a 
public 
> >question on the November 2002 ballot as an initiative and 
referendum.  
> >Although it is still examining this issue, this new group 
presently has no 
> >intention of running the school board question on the 2002 ballot.
> >
> >Turning back to Mr. Smith, when his request for a meeting was 
rejected, he 
> >unilaterally called one or two gatherings, including the most 
recent event 
> >on December 1.  I have heard from a reliable source that only two 
people 
> >appeared at yesterday's gathering.  In any event, since no member 
has the 
> >authority to unilaterally call a meeting, the elected leadership 
of the 
> >organization, with my support as attorney for the group, does not 
recognize 
> >these gatherings called by Mr. Smith as lawful meetings.  
Likewise, the 
> >elected Steering Committee, based on the established rules and 
procedures 
> >of the group, does not recognize any decision taken at such 
gatherings as 
> >lawful decisions of the group.  Contrary to the claims made by Mr. 
Smith in 
> >your article, there has been no lawful decision by NBPC to expel 
> >Republicans, nor has a decision been made to run the elected 
school board 
> >question in the 2002 election.  Indeed, I think that his most 
recent 
> >shenanigans in attempting to mislead you, Mr. Smith and his 
extremist 
> >cohorts will only isolate themselves further.  Our group has 
always been 
> >committed to bringing progressive and meaningful change to a 
united New 
> >Brunswick.  Mr. Smith's unsound objectives appear only to be bring 
division 
> >and contempt to the political process.
> >
> >If you have further questions about this you can contact me or any 
of the 
> >Steering Commitee members listed above.
> >
> >Flavio L. Komuves
> >General Counsel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2361
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-03 23:10:44
Subject:Fwd: New Brunswick People's Campaign article of 12/1/01
Message:



From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>

From: Groovemeister007@...

Whether or not a particular person is "at a meeting" does not
determine whether the meeting was lawful or not.  The last lawful
meeting of NBPC occurred on September 8, 2001.  You stated to me in
a private email that the alleged replacement of the Steering Committee
occurred at the October meeting, whenever that date was, which you
claimed you couldn't remember.

What I find unbelievable, Joe, is that you claim there was (a) a
removal of the existing SC; (b) election of a new SC; (c) expulsion
of Republicans; (d) a decision to work on school board for 2002.
You never announced any of these facts on nbpcmembers or
nbpeoplescampaign before last week.  This is despite the fact that
you have had access to the former group since August 12, 2001 and
the latter since the inception last year.  The only evidence you have
presented is a _proposal_ - posted on the "NJFO" newsgroup no less -
to be offered at a meeting on August 25 (which was not even a
meeting date!)  You want us to believe that this huge sea change occurred in 
the organization, and yet you posted nothing about it on the groups 
contemporaneously.  Get real!  We're not falling for your nonsense.

You are NOT the spokesperson for the group.  You are NOT on the
Steering Committee.  You can NOT unilaterally call meetings.  The
events you have called are NOT lawful meetings.  You are simply one
member of the group, at least until we expel you again for this
utterly embarrassing fiasco with the newspaper that you have caused!
Notwithstanding your letter to the editor from Saturday, for which I
thank you, episodes like this demonstrate that on the whole, you and
your extremist friends are a pathetic embarrasment to progressive
forces in New Brunswick.

As for the decision not to have an NBPC attorney represent you, I
cannot disclose those reasons in an open forum.


In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:

for clarification purposes-
keith, zofia, & luceno - all not part of my faction - were all at
the general meeting where your steering committee was abolished &
replaced. at this general membership meeting was when the next
meeting was called for. i requested nothing from the old leadership,
the meeting was called for by the general body.

funny a lawyer should be sending out this bizarre letter on a day
when 3 campaign members have trial that this lawyer refuses to
represent. -joe

From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@a...>

Dear Sharon:

I read with great interest your article of Saturday, December 1,
2001, concerning the New Brunswick People's Campaign.  I am afraid,
however, that one our members, Joseph Smith, has misstated to you
the current nature of the organization.

In particular, the New Brunswick People's Campaign has not held any
lawful membership meetings since September 2001.  Mr. Smith, who is
part of a small extremist faction of the group, had requested that
the leadership of the group call a general meeting of members.  This
request was made to the leadership of the group (i.e. its Steering
Committee), lawfully elected at its February 10, 2001 meeting.
Since that time, the Committee has included, and is presently
comprised of Thomas DeGloma, Xavier Hansen, Eryn Loeb, Julie Poulos,
Danny Rosado and Curtis Warren.

Among the reasons that the Steering Committee rejected Mr. Smith's
request for a meeting is because the Steering Committee has been re-
assessing the group's role in the New Brunswick political process.
In particular, the leadership of the group presently intends to
dissolve the New Brunswick People's Campaign.  These members of the
leadership, along with other members of the New Brunswick and
Rutgers communities intend to form a new entity, broadening our
extensive base of political support in New Brunswick, in
preparation for the 2002 elections.  This new entity intends to run
candidates for mayor and council as well as to place a public
question on the November 2002 ballot as an initiative and
referendum.

Although it is still examining this issue, this new group presently
has no intention of running the school board question on the 2002
ballot.

Turning back to Mr. Smith, when his request for a meeting was
rejected, he unilaterally called one or two gatherings, including
the most recent event on December 1.  I have heard from a reliable source 
that only two people appeared at yesterday's gathering.  In any
event, since no member has the authority to unilaterally call a meeting, the 
elected leadership of the organization, with my support as attorney for the 
group, does not recognize these gatherings called by Mr. Smith as lawful 
meetings.

Likewise, the elected Steering Committee, based on the established
rules and procedures of the group, does not recognize any decision
taken at such gatherings as lawful decisions of the group.  Contrary
to the claims made by Mr. Smith in your article, there has been no
lawful decision by NBPC to expel Republicans, nor has a decision
been made to run the elected school board question in the 2002
election.  Indeed, I think that his most recent shenanigans in
attempting to mislead you, Mr. Smith and his extremist cohorts will
only isolate themselves further.  Our group has always been
committed to bringing progressive and meaningful change to a united
New Brunswick.  Mr. Smith's unsound objectives appear only to be
bring division and contempt to the political process.

If you have further questions about this you can contact me or any
of the
  Steering Commitee members listed above.

Flavio L. Komuves
General Counsel



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2362
Sender:TheDailyTargum@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-03 23:12:29
Subject:Party plans May convention
Message:

Party plans May convention
By: Michael Reilly, Staff Writer
 


12/02/01
--------------------------

After months of infighting and reorganization, the Peoples' Campaign opposition party held an early-stage planning meeting for its May 2002 convention Saturday at the Free Public Library on Livingston Avenue. 

An amalgam of various city organizations sharing a stern critique of the Democratic administration of the city, the campaign unsuccessfully ran three candidates for city council in the November 2000 election.

"There's no control in the community over the institutions that govern our lives," argued convention steering committee member Joe Smith, a University College sophomore and self-described Marxist community activist. "Right now, there's corporate control over these institutions, and we want individual control."  Smith described the Peoples' Campaign � which ousted him from its ranks two weeks after the 2000 convention � as the political tool to pry power and influence from corporations such as Johnson & Johnson and return it to city residents.

The Peoples' Campaign intends to run candidates for mayor and two city council seats in November, and hopes to once again bring a proposal to elect the city's school board to the ballot.

The young opposition party has had its share of shifting membership. After selecting three candidates to run in the November 2000 city council elections � Curtis Warren, Diego Morales and Keith Joseph � the spring 2000 Peoples' Campaign convention generated criticism from within the body for its alliance with the city's Republican Party. But after the convention, it was Smith � who focused his electoral efforts on the defeated elected school board initiative � and not Republican Party Chairman Frank Bright who left the Peoples' Campaign.

However, a sizable portion of the campaign's membership supported Smith's anti-Republican arguments, and agitated both for his return and the complete separation of the People's Campaign from the Republican Party � winning by one vote in an August meeting, although Bright, now a Housing Authority commissioner, left the party months before. 

The split with the Republican Party was necessary to serve the citizenry, Smith explained, because while the Republicans and the People's Campaign both oppose Democratic control of municipal government, the Republicans "really have nothing to offer the people," Smith said.

Accusing the city's current Democratic administration of disenfranchising large swaths of the populace, Smith named the city's public education and redevelopment policies as two key issues he expected the Peoples' Campaign to challenge in its platform.

Smith accused the city government of specifically targeting poor, working class and minority citizens for removal from the city through its ongoing redevelopment efforts.

And the steering committee blamed poor standardized testing scores on city school board organization. The city is alone in Middlesex County in its appointed school board. "It's the ultimate democratic question � do you want control of your schools?" steering committee member Cliff Smith asked his six fellow committee members.

However, to effect any institutional change within the city, the Peoples' Campaign acknowledged the necessity of unifying popular support  � something it hopes to accomplish in the months leading up to the election. "We have to show [the people] how powerful they can be when they are organized," Smith said.
--------------------------
Story Source: The Daily Targum








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2363
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-04 00:23:57
Subject:Fwd: Re: opportunists knock NBPC
Message:

flavio, you are out of line.

everyone that was at the meeting where sword was reinstated knows that the 
next meeting was announced by y'all. it is unfortunate that you are being 
fed such crap, because the only way they can win you over is technicalities. 
but you should not be pursuaded by these technicalities because they are 
wrong.

the library room was reserved by y'all. paul is the one that argued  when 
the date was changed, that the meeting room was reserved by y'all & if 
people want to meet outside on the originally announced date -which was 
announced by X/FLAVIER- "more power to them".

what i say is at issue is that y'all called for a meeting at the meeting i 
was reinstated in at and paul & zofia later pointed out that the date was 
pushed back and zofia attended the meeting. if you have any issue about this 
meeting please leave me out of it as it was announced, attended, and not 
disputed by y'all.

if your "new entity" wants to run a slate for 2002 NB, the NBPC & the people 
of NB are interested in uniting all progressive platforms. also y'all are 
fools to publicly state anything remote to y'all don't support an elected 
school board.

red collective is an organization created by opportunists to attack the 
nbpc's platform.  -joe



>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: njfo@yahoogroups.com
>To: amirib@..., vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@..., 
>cliffsmith69@..., tamaradahan@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, njfo@yahoogroups.com, 
>onepeoplesproject@egroups.com, coalitionforjustice@egroups.com
>Subject: [njfo] Fwd: New Brunswick People's Campaign article of 12/1/01
>Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 23:10:44 -0500
>
>
>
>
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>
>From: Groovemeister007@...
>
>Whether or not a particular person is "at a meeting" does not
>determine whether the meeting was lawful or not.  The last lawful
>meeting of NBPC occurred on September 8, 2001.  You stated to me in
>a private email that the alleged replacement of the Steering Committee
>occurred at the October meeting, whenever that date was, which you
>claimed you couldn't remember.
>
>What I find unbelievable, Joe, is that you claim there was (a) a
>removal of the existing SC; (b) election of a new SC; (c) expulsion
>of Republicans; (d) a decision to work on school board for 2002.
>You never announced any of these facts on nbpcmembers or
>nbpeoplescampaign before last week.  This is despite the fact that
>you have had access to the former group since August 12, 2001 and
>the latter since the inception last year.  The only evidence you have
>presented is a _proposal_ - posted on the "NJFO" newsgroup no less -
>to be offered at a meeting on August 25 (which was not even a
>meeting date!)  You want us to believe that this huge sea change occurred 
>in
>the organization, and yet you posted nothing about it on the groups
>contemporaneously.  Get real!  We're not falling for your nonsense.
>
>You are NOT the spokesperson for the group.  You are NOT on the
>Steering Committee.  You can NOT unilaterally call meetings.  The
>events you have called are NOT lawful meetings.  You are simply one
>member of the group, at least until we expel you again for this
>utterly embarrassing fiasco with the newspaper that you have caused!
>Notwithstanding your letter to the editor from Saturday, for which I
>thank you, episodes like this demonstrate that on the whole, you and
>your extremist friends are a pathetic embarrasment to progressive
>forces in New Brunswick.
>
>As for the decision not to have an NBPC attorney represent you, I
>cannot disclose those reasons in an open forum.
>
>
>In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>
>for clarification purposes-
>keith, zofia, & luceno - all not part of my faction - were all at
>the general meeting where your steering committee was abolished &
>replaced. at this general membership meeting was when the next
>meeting was called for. i requested nothing from the old leadership,
>the meeting was called for by the general body.
>
>funny a lawyer should be sending out this bizarre letter on a day
>when 3 campaign members have trial that this lawyer refuses to
>represent. -joe
>
>From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@a...>
>
>Dear Sharon:
>
>I read with great interest your article of Saturday, December 1,
>2001, concerning the New Brunswick People's Campaign.  I am afraid,
>however, that one our members, Joseph Smith, has misstated to you
>the current nature of the organization.
>
>In particular, the New Brunswick People's Campaign has not held any
>lawful membership meetings since September 2001.  Mr. Smith, who is
>part of a small extremist faction of the group, had requested that
>the leadership of the group call a general meeting of members.  This
>request was made to the leadership of the group (i.e. its Steering
>Committee), lawfully elected at its February 10, 2001 meeting.
>Since that time, the Committee has included, and is presently
>comprised of Thomas DeGloma, Xavier Hansen, Eryn Loeb, Julie Poulos,
>Danny Rosado and Curtis Warren.
>
>Among the reasons that the Steering Committee rejected Mr. Smith's
>request for a meeting is because the Steering Committee has been re-
>assessing the group's role in the New Brunswick political process.
>In particular, the leadership of the group presently intends to
>dissolve the New Brunswick People's Campaign.  These members of the
>leadership, along with other members of the New Brunswick and
>Rutgers communities intend to form a new entity, broadening our
>extensive base of political support in New Brunswick, in
>preparation for the 2002 elections.  This new entity intends to run
>candidates for mayor and council as well as to place a public
>question on the November 2002 ballot as an initiative and
>referendum.
>
>Although it is still examining this issue, this new group presently
>has no intention of running the school board question on the 2002
>ballot.
>
>Turning back to Mr. Smith, when his request for a meeting was
>rejected, he unilaterally called one or two gatherings, including
>the most recent event on December 1.  I have heard from a reliable source
>that only two people appeared at yesterday's gathering.  In any
>event, since no member has the authority to unilaterally call a meeting, 
>the
>elected leadership of the organization, with my support as attorney for the
>group, does not recognize these gatherings called by Mr. Smith as lawful
>meetings.
>
>Likewise, the elected Steering Committee, based on the established
>rules and procedures of the group, does not recognize any decision
>taken at such gatherings as lawful decisions of the group.  Contrary
>to the claims made by Mr. Smith in your article, there has been no
>lawful decision by NBPC to expel Republicans, nor has a decision
>been made to run the elected school board question in the 2002
>election.  Indeed, I think that his most recent shenanigans in
>attempting to mislead you, Mr. Smith and his extremist cohorts will
>only isolate themselves further.  Our group has always been
>committed to bringing progressive and meaningful change to a united
>New Brunswick.  Mr. Smith's unsound objectives appear only to be
>bring division and contempt to the political process.
>
>If you have further questions about this you can contact me or any
>of the
>   Steering Commitee members listed above.
>
>Flavio L. Komuves
>General Counsel
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2364
Sender:TheDailyTargum@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-04 01:05:24
Subject:One year later, Smith brothers go before court
Message:

One year later, Smith brothers go before court
By: Jessica Weber, Staff Writer
 


12/04/01
--------------------------

University College sophomore Joe Smith finally had his day in court yesterday. Smith, a leading force behind the Campaign for an Elected Board of Education � which tried unsuccessfully last year to get city residents to approve a referendum to elect members to the board of education � charged Mayor Jim Cahill's aide Kevin Jones with assault last year, after Jones allegedly punched Smith in the face during an Election Day altercation at a polling site in November of 2000.

Smith's hearing was held in Highland Park yesterday after the trial was moved to the borough to avoid possible conflicts of interest. Jones filed counter-charges against Smith, which included assault and disorderly persons harassment, claiming Smith tried to knee him in the groin during the Election Day skirmish. But after hours of negotiation, both parties agreed to drop the charges against each other moments before trial proceeded.

But the settlement of the Jones case did not end the legal tribulations from Smith � and Joe Smith was not the only member of his family in the Municipal Courthouse on South Fifth Street. Joe Smith's two brothers, Cliff and Matthew, faced misdemeanor charges of verbal assault and obstruction of justice, respectively. William Pfeifer, chief maintenance engineer at the city Water Utility, also charged Joe Smith with assault, criminal mischief and littering in an egg-related incident.

Pfeifer claimed Smith had egged his pick-up truck in the early morning hours of Election Day last year while Pfeifer and his colleague, Tom Rudolph, posted signs advertising the Democratic Party slate � which opposed the school board referendum � in the area around Commercial Avenue.

Though the Smith brothers' cases were heard separately, they shared an attorney, Santos Perez, and, after several re-schedulings, a consolidated court date. Matthew Smith, who pleaded guilty to his misdemeanor charges, said he asked police officers � who accosted Joe � what they were doing concerning an incident unrelated to either the Jones fight or the Pfeifer egging.  Matthew Smith's actions resulted in a misdemeanor obstruction of justice charge, although no court officer entered official police records into evidence yesterday, and was forced to pay a $50 fine.

Judge Edward Herman dismissed Cliff Smith's verbal assault charge after New Brunswick High School Principal Pierre Embrey, who filed the charge, did not attend trial yesterday. The charge arose in relation to Cliff Smith's distribution of campaign literature outside the school in September of 2000.

Yesterday's trial was fraught with anxiety as prosecutors attempted to negotiate with the Smith brothers in order to reach settlements and steer clear of going to trial, but the Smiths maintained their innocence and refused any deal. Attorneys on both sides deliberated in the hours leading up to the appearance before Herman, but did not reach any agreement by the time of the hearing.

The Smiths' obstinacy led Perez to file a motion to be relieved as counsel for the defendants due to a "conflict of ethics." The frustrated defense lawyer told Herman he could not defend his clients given "the substance of the negotiations and the validity of the negotiations." He said that he could not support his clients' refusal to accept the prosecution's deals, claiming the "risks of trying the case substantially and overwhelmingly outweigh the benefits." Herman denied Perez's motion.
--------------------------
Story Source: The Daily Targum








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2365
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-04 12:05:42
Subject:ledger on smith democracy trial
Message:


                     New Brunswick employees victorious
                     in Election Day aftermath

                     12/04/01

                     BY ALEXANDER LANE
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

                     A series of Election Day clashes last year between 
political activists and New Brunswick employees who volunteered for the 
city's Democratic campaign came to a head in a municipal court yesterday.

                     After a bizarre day of lawyer-client bickering, aborted 
plea deals and high-drama courtroom theatrics, the city employees came out 
on top.

                     Joseph Smith, a Rutgers University student who has long 
lobbied for an elected school board in New Brunswick, was found guilty of 
simple assault for throwing eggs at Democratic campaign volunteer William 
Pfeifer on Election Day 2000. Smith received a $250 fine, a year of 
probation and 30 days of community service.

                     Smith dropped his charge that Kevin Jones, the top aide 
to New Brunswick Mayor James Cahill, punched him in the face at a polling 
place later that same day. In return, Jones dropped his counter-charge that 
Smith tried to knee him in the groin.

                     Harassment charges filed against Smith's brother, 
Clifford Smith, by New Brunswick High School Principal Pierre Embrey, for a 
campaign-related altercation outside the high school before the 2000 
election, were dismissed because Embrey did not show up to court.

                     Another Smith brother, Matthew, who was charged with 
obstruction of justice for bothering police as they arrested Clifford Smith 
in the high-school incident, pleaded guilty to a lesser charge and was fined 
$50.

                     The case was heard in Highland Park Municipal Court and 
prosecuted by a special prosecutor from East Brunswick to avoid potential 
conflicts of interest in New Brunswick.

                     Tangled in the contentious back-and-forth of New 
Brunswick politics, the proceeding marked a dramatic departure from the 
humdrum business of municipal court.

                     Jones, Pfeifer and another city employee came armed 
with their own experienced attorneys who, with special prosecutor John 
Rizzo, helped cut a deal that would get Jones off the hook and dole out a 
slap on the wrist to each of the Smiths.

                     Though the Smiths' lawyer, Santos Perez, recommended 
they take the deal, the brothers turned it down. This so irked Perez that he 
asked Municipal Court Judge Edward Herman to let him quit the case.

                     Herman refused, dressing down Perez in open court for 
trying to impose his will on his clients. After fevered conversations among 
lawyers, clients and the judge, Perez decided to stay on, and Herman called 
the first case on the docket -- Pfeifer's assault charge against Joseph 
Smith.

                     Pfeifer, who works for the city's water utility, 
accused Smith of throwing eggs at him and his friend, Tom Rudolph, another 
water utility employee, as they hung Democratic campaign signs overnight 
before the 2000 election. Smith backed a slate of council candidates who 
unsuccessfully challenged incumbent Democrats.

                     Perez earned frequent rebukes from the judge for 
redundant questioning while trying to defend Smith. After the judge found 
Smith guilty, Perez made little of his chance to ask for a light sentence, 
even after the judge urged him to stick up for the college student.

                     "I need you to tell me why I shouldn't put him in 
jail," Herman finally pressed Perez.

                     By contrast, Pfeifer's lawyer Tom Abode pressed his 
client's case with vigor, jumping from his seat with frequent objections, 
pacing in front of Smith during cross-examination and, after the verdict, 
asking the judge to put Smith in jail. "I am asking for incarceration," 
Abode said. "This behavior cannot be tolerated."

                     "He threw eggs," Herman said, unmoved. "How many days 
in jail should he get for throwing eggs?"

                     The other cases involving the Smiths were resolved 
through plea bargains, without a full trial.

                     Alexander Lane covers New Brunswick. He can be reached 
at alane@... or (732) 634-1236.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2366
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-04 12:50:45
Subject:Fwd: Re: opportunists knock NBPC
Message:

Joe:

You are profoundly confused.  The meeting at which you were 
reinstated was July 28, 2001.  The next meeting was September 8, 
2001.  (In fact, you attempted to mislead the newsgroup by claiming 
it was on for August 25-when no library room was even available).  
You told me the removal of the Steering Committee and the expulsion 
of Republicans occurred at the October meeting.  Then you told the 
Targum it occurred at an August meeting, when there was no such 
meeting.  (Previously you told me it was at the September meeting).  
Paul, who is not on the Steering Committee, has no more authority to 
unilaterally call a membership meeting than you do, so whatever 
gathering happened in August is a nonevent.

To be blunt, your credibility is nil and I don't believe you when you 
say these events happened.  It seems to me that if you had removed 
the Steering Committee and expelled the Republicans, this would have 
been all over the egroups.  It was not.  You still haven't disclosed 
who this new alleged Steering Commitee is.  Moreover, contrary to the 
directives of the 2/10/01 meeting, no minutes of these alleged 
meetings were ever prepared or posted.  You also demanded the 
membership list from me, contrary to the Campaign's privacy policies 
from 2/10/01.  Maybe you repealed those directives, too, and are 
planning to disclose it when it suits your convenience.  But you 
won't persuade me!

You argue about technicalities.  Yet, I gave you ample opportunity, 
in private emails with you, to respond to the claim that there (1) 
had been an election of you to the SC and (2) that the Republicans 
had been expelled.  You had ample opportunity to respond and yet 
provided nothing persuasive.  What's more, you changed your story 
every time about meeting dates, what occurred, etc.

Lastly, I never stated that the new entity does not endorse an 
elected school board.  I stated that there was no intention to run 
that question in 2002 at this time, although we were still 
considering the issue.  









-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2367
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-04 12:24:19
Subject:Re: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] New Brunswick People's Campaign article of 12/1/01
Message:

impressions aside, the regularly scheduled nbpc meeting took place at which 
the republican-allied steering committee was unanimously voted out.

all nbpc members were duly notified of this meeting, & of the proposal.
there exists a preponderence of correspondence to substantiate this.

the steering committee made no prior notification to "cancel", "postpone", 
"re-schedule", "dissolve", , , this meeting or the organization.

regardless their agendas, attempts to claim "ownership" of the "name" of an 
organization, & for no other reason but to "disband"(!) that organization, 
are below discussion.

the nbpc is what its active membership says it is, as always.  we welcome 
anyone to work w/ us in the struggle for democracy.  our meetings are open 
to all non-republicans.

peoples' campaign 2002,
unite the many, defeat the few!

cs


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] New Brunswick People's Campaign 
>article of 12/1/01
>Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 02:58:32
>
>Flav- just a point of clarification- I was under the impression that the 
>old
>NBPC steering committee disolved itself, or at least the members
>relinguished their relationship to the NBPC.  What's the dilio? -Matt
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: [nbpc] New Brunswick People's Campaign article 
>of
>12/1/01
>Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 21:03:06 -0000
>
>Whether or not a particular person is "at a meeting" does not
>determine whether the meeting was lawful or not.  The last lawful
>meeting of NBPC occurred on September 8, 2001.  You stated to me in a
>private email that the alleged replacement of the Steering Committee
>occurred at the October meeting, whenever that date was, which you
>claimed you couldn't remember.
>
>What I find unbelievable, Joe, is that you claim there was (a) a
>removal of the existing SC; (b) election of a new SC; (c) expulsion
>of Republicans; (d) a decision to work on school board for 2002.  You
>never announced any of these facts on nbpcmembers or
>nbpeoplescampaign before last week.  This is despite the fact that
>you have had access to the former group since August 12, 2001 and the
>latter since the inception last year.  The only evidence you have
>presented is a _proposal_ - posted on the "NJFO" newsgroup no less -
>to be offered at a meeting on August 25 (which was not even a meeting
>date!)  You want us to believe that this huge sea change occurred in
>the organization, and yet you posted nothing about it on the groups
>contemporaneously.  Get real!  We're not falling for your nonsense.
>
>You are NOT the spokesperson for the group.  You are NOT on the
>Steering Committee.  You can NOT unilaterally call meetings.  The
>events you have called are NOT lawful meetings.  You are simply one
>member of the group, at least until we expel you again for this
>utterly embarrassing fiasco with the newspaper that you have caused!
>Notwithstanding your letter to the editor from Saturday, for which I
>thank you, episodes like this demonstrate that on the whole, you and
>your extremist friends are a pathetic embarrasment to progressive
>forces in New Brunswick.
>
>As for the decision not to have an NBPC attorney represent you, I
>cannot disclose those reasons in an open forum.
>
>
>--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>  > for clarification purposes-
>  >
>  > keith, zofia, & luceno - all not part of my faction - were all at
>the
>  > general meeting where your steering committee was abolished &
>replaced. at
>  > this general membership meeting was when the next meeting was
>called for. i
>  > requested nothing from the old leadership, the meeting was called
>for by the
>  > general body.
>  >
>  > funny a lawyer should be sending out this bizarre letter on a day
>when 3
>  > campaign members have trial that this lawyer refuses to represent. -
>joe
>  >
>  > >From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@a...>
>  > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > >To: <swaters@t...>
>  > >CC: <nbpcmembers@y...>, <tdegloma@h...>,
>  > ><citruswar@a...>, <juliepoulos@y...>, <redgrrrl500@h...>,
>  > ><xavier_hansen@h...>, <nbpeoplescampaign@y...>
>  > >Subject: [nbpc] New Brunswick People's Campaign article of 12/1/01
>  > >Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 21:34:47 -0500
>  > >
>  > >Dear Sharon:
>  > >
>  > >I read with great interest your article of Saturday, December 1,
>2001,
>  > >concerning the New Brunswick People's Campaign.  I am afraid,
>however, that
>  > >one our members, Joseph Smith, has misstated to you the current
>nature of
>  > >the organization.
>  > >
>  > >In particular, the New Brunswick People's Campaign has not held
>any lawful
>  > >membership meetings since September 2001.  Mr. Smith, who is part
>of a
>  > >small extremist faction of the group, had requested that the
>leadership of
>  > >the group call a general meeting of members.  This request was
>made to the
>  > >leadership of the group (i.e. its Steering Committee), lawfully
>elected at
>  > >its February 10, 2001 meeting.  Since that time, the Committee has
>  > >included, and is presently comprised of Thomas DeGloma, Xavier
>Hansen, Eryn
>  > >Loeb, Julie Poulos, Danny Rosado and Curtis Warren.
>  > >
>  > >Among the reasons that the Steering Committee rejected Mr. Smith's
>request
>  > >for a meeting is because the Steering Committee has been re-
>assessing the
>  > >group's role in the New Brunswick political process.  In
>particular, the
>  > >leadership of the group presently intends to dissolve the New
>Brunswick
>  > >People's Campaign.  These members of the leadership, along with
>other
>  > >members of the New Brunswick and Rutgers communities intend to
>form a new
>  > >entity, broadening our extensive base of political support in New
>  > >Brunswick, in preparation for the 2002 elections.  This new entity
>intends
>  > >to run candidates for mayor and council as well as to place a
>public
>  > >question on the November 2002 ballot as an initiative and
>referendum.
>  > >Although it is still examining this issue, this new group
>presently has no
>  > >intention of running the school board question on the 2002 ballot.
>  > >
>  > >Turning back to Mr. Smith, when his request for a meeting was
>rejected, he
>  > >unilaterally called one or two gatherings, including the most
>recent event
>  > >on December 1.  I have heard from a reliable source that only two
>people
>  > >appeared at yesterday's gathering.  In any event, since no member
>has the
>  > >authority to unilaterally call a meeting, the elected leadership
>of the
>  > >organization, with my support as attorney for the group, does not
>recognize
>  > >these gatherings called by Mr. Smith as lawful meetings.
>Likewise, the
>  > >elected Steering Committee, based on the established rules and
>procedures
>  > >of the group, does not recognize any decision taken at such
>gatherings as
>  > >lawful decisions of the group.  Contrary to the claims made by Mr.
>Smith in
>  > >your article, there has been no lawful decision by NBPC to expel
>  > >Republicans, nor has a decision been made to run the elected
>school board
>  > >question in the 2002 election.  Indeed, I think that his most
>recent
>  > >shenanigans in attempting to mislead you, Mr. Smith and his
>extremist
>  > >cohorts will only isolate themselves further.  Our group has
>always been
>  > >committed to bringing progressive and meaningful change to a
>united New
>  > >Brunswick.  Mr. Smith's unsound objectives appear only to be bring
>division
>  > >and contempt to the political process.
>  > >
>  > >If you have further questions about this you can contact me or any
>of the
>  > >Steering Commitee members listed above.
>  > >
>  > >Flavio L. Komuves
>  > >General Counsel
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  > _________________________________________________________________
>  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2368
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-04 18:22:46
Subject:Fwd: [nbpcmembers] proposal
Message:



>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com, 
>njfo@egroups.com
>Subject: [nbpcmembers] proposal
>Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:02:45 +0000
>
>proposal to nbpeoplescampaign.
>to be voted sat., 8/25
>
>
>the objective of the nbpeoplescampaign is peoples' democracy and political
>power.
>
>this objective is expressed in the community's slogans: "put people 
>first!",
>"community control!", & "unite, organize, seize power!"
>
>as allies the nbpc has the democratic forces of the peoples.
>
>as enemies the nbpc has the representatives of monopoly 
>capital/imperialism.
>
>the nbpc will make strategic alliances w/all democratic forces & tactical
>alliances w/all democratic tendencies.
>
>the strategy of the peoples campaign is principally to challenge in 
>winnable
>elections for peoples' representation.  &to pin the democratic party on the
>republican party in those elections in which we cannot yet win.
>
>immediately, this means to support ras baraka for nwk council, may '02.  to
>smash schundler! keep mcgreasy in the fire! in nov. '01.  then to take nb
>elected school board, mayor & 2council seats in nov. 02.  also to develop 
>in
>hp &elsewhere.
>
>all alliances w/ republican representatives &positions by nbpc leadership
>were/are anti-democratic deviations at the peoples' expense.  one cannot
>simultaneously uphold the republican party platform & peoples' democracy.
>the nbpc must establish itself on an uncompromising democratic basis w/
>uncompromising democratic leadership.
>
>all nbpc officers who fail to fully criticize &correct these backward
>schemes &methods must be immediately replaced.  nominations shd be taken
>immediately for steering committee &campaign chair, to be voted in sept.
>mtg.
>
>cliff smith
>student/worker organization for revolutionary democracy
>8/20
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2369
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-04 17:21:10
Subject:Re: opportunists knock NBPC
Message:

flavio, curtis was at the meeting with zofia, luceno, keith & others when 
the steering committee was abolished and the republicans agenda was deemed 
incompatible w/the PC agenda. your new entity should at least have a name, 
no?


>From: Groovemeister007@...
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: Re: opportunists knock NBPC
>Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 17:50:45 -0000
>
>Joe:
>
>You are profoundly confused.  The meeting at which you were
>reinstated was July 28, 2001.  The next meeting was September 8,
>2001.  (In fact, you attempted to mislead the newsgroup by claiming
>it was on for August 25-when no library room was even available).
>You told me the removal of the Steering Committee and the expulsion
>of Republicans occurred at the October meeting.  Then you told the
>Targum it occurred at an August meeting, when there was no such
>meeting.  (Previously you told me it was at the September meeting).
>Paul, who is not on the Steering Committee, has no more authority to
>unilaterally call a membership meeting than you do, so whatever
>gathering happened in August is a nonevent.
>
>To be blunt, your credibility is nil and I don't believe you when you
>say these events happened.  It seems to me that if you had removed
>the Steering Committee and expelled the Republicans, this would have
>been all over the egroups.  It was not.  You still haven't disclosed
>who this new alleged Steering Commitee is.  Moreover, contrary to the
>directives of the 2/10/01 meeting, no minutes of these alleged
>meetings were ever prepared or posted.  You also demanded the
>membership list from me, contrary to the Campaign's privacy policies
>from 2/10/01.  Maybe you repealed those directives, too, and are
>planning to disclose it when it suits your convenience.  But you
>won't persuade me!
>
>You argue about technicalities.  Yet, I gave you ample opportunity,
>in private emails with you, to respond to the claim that there (1)
>had been an election of you to the SC and (2) that the Republicans
>had been expelled.  You had ample opportunity to respond and yet
>provided nothing persuasive.  What's more, you changed your story
>every time about meeting dates, what occurred, etc.
>
>Lastly, I never stated that the new entity does not endorse an
>elected school board.  I stated that there was no intention to run
>that question in 2002 at this time, although we were still
>considering the issue.
>
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2370
Sender:Groovemeister007@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-04 19:04:28
Subject:Re: opportunists knock NBPC
Message:

OK, so now Curtis "& others" were there, too.  Last time, it was just 
Zofia, Keith, and Jim.  Look, all!  It's Joe Smith amazing, ever-
changing version of his story!

Thankfully, some things are remaining constant. (1) Joe does not deny 
that he has now cited three different months when this alleged 
meeting happened.  (2) Joe ADMITS that these alleged events (i.e. 
Steering Committee's replacement and Republicans' expulsion) were NOT 
posted contemporaneously on the newsgroup and that the first we heard 
of these alleged proposal's alleged passage was about a week or so 
ago; (3) Joe does not deny that no minutes of this alleged meeting 
were taken or posted, in violation of the 2/10/01 directive; (4) Joe 
still has not told us the names of the people he recognizes as the 
Steering Committee and (5) Joe still wants us to believe him.

joe - by the way - I know u think yr writing is cool and all that, 
but who is "flavier" - is that me or x?  none of us'all cn fgr it out.





--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> flavio, curtis was at the meeting with zofia, luceno, keith & 
others when 
> the steering committee was abolished and the republicans agenda was 
deemed 
> incompatible w/the PC agenda. your new entity should at least have 
a name, 
> no?
> 
> 
> >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: Re: opportunists knock NBPC
> >Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 17:50:45 -0000
> >
> >Joe:
> >
> >You are profoundly confused.  The meeting at which you were
> >reinstated was July 28, 2001.  The next meeting was September 8,
> >2001.  (In fact, you attempted to mislead the newsgroup by claiming
> >it was on for August 25-when no library room was even available).
> >You told me the removal of the Steering Committee and the expulsion
> >of Republicans occurred at the October meeting.  Then you told the
> >Targum it occurred at an August meeting, when there was no such
> >meeting.  (Previously you told me it was at the September meeting).
> >Paul, who is not on the Steering Committee, has no more authority 
to
> >unilaterally call a membership meeting than you do, so whatever
> >gathering happened in August is a nonevent.
> >
> >To be blunt, your credibility is nil and I don't believe you when 
you
> >say these events happened.  It seems to me that if you had removed
> >the Steering Committee and expelled the Republicans, this would 
have
> >been all over the egroups.  It was not.  You still haven't 
disclosed
> >who this new alleged Steering Commitee is.  Moreover, contrary to 
the
> >directives of the 2/10/01 meeting, no minutes of these alleged
> >meetings were ever prepared or posted.  You also demanded the
> >membership list from me, contrary to the Campaign's privacy 
policies
> >from 2/10/01.  Maybe you repealed those directives, too, and are
> >planning to disclose it when it suits your convenience.  But you
> >won't persuade me!
> >
> >You argue about technicalities.  Yet, I gave you ample opportunity,
> >in private emails with you, to respond to the claim that there (1)
> >had been an election of you to the SC and (2) that the Republicans
> >had been expelled.  You had ample opportunity to respond and yet
> >provided nothing persuasive.  What's more, you changed your story
> >every time about meeting dates, what occurred, etc.
> >
> >Lastly, I never stated that the new entity does not endorse an
> >elected school board.  I stated that there was no intention to run
> >that question in 2002 at this time, although we were still
> >considering the issue.
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2371
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-04 19:53:33
Subject:Re: opportunists knock NBPC
Message:

ask them, they were there.

matt, keith can explain to you that the steering committee was abolished. 
-joe


>From: Groovemeister007@...
>
>OK, so now Curtis "& others" were there, too.  Last time, it was just
>Zofia, Keith, and Jim.  Look, all!  It's Joe Smith amazing, ever-
>changing version of his story!

>Thankfully, some things are remaining constant. (1) Joe does not deny
>that he has now cited three different months when this alleged
>meeting happened.  (2) Joe ADMITS that these alleged events (i.e.
>Steering Committee's replacement and Republicans' expulsion) were NOT
>posted contemporaneously on the newsgroup and that the first we heard
>of these alleged proposal's alleged passage was about a week or so
>ago; (3) Joe does not deny that no minutes of this alleged meeting
>were taken or posted, in violation of the 2/10/01 directive; (4) Joe
>still has not told us the names of the people he recognizes as the
>Steering Committee and (5) Joe still wants us to believe him.
>
>joe - by the way - I know u think yr writing is cool and all that,
>but who is "flavier" - is that me or x?  none of us'all cn fgr it out.
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > flavio, curtis was at the meeting with zofia, luceno, keith &
>others when
> > the steering committee was abolished and the republicans agenda was
>deemed
> > incompatible w/the PC agenda. your new entity should at least have
>a name,
> > no?
> >
> >
> > >From: Groovemeister007@y...
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: Re: opportunists knock NBPC
> > >Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 17:50:45 -0000
> > >
> > >Joe:
> > >
> > >You are profoundly confused.  The meeting at which you were
> > >reinstated was July 28, 2001.  The next meeting was September 8,
> > >2001.  (In fact, you attempted to mislead the newsgroup by claiming
> > >it was on for August 25-when no library room was even available).
> > >You told me the removal of the Steering Committee and the expulsion
> > >of Republicans occurred at the October meeting.  Then you told the
> > >Targum it occurred at an August meeting, when there was no such
> > >meeting.  (Previously you told me it was at the September meeting).
> > >Paul, who is not on the Steering Committee, has no more authority
>to
> > >unilaterally call a membership meeting than you do, so whatever
> > >gathering happened in August is a nonevent.
> > >
> > >To be blunt, your credibility is nil and I don't believe you when
>you
> > >say these events happened.  It seems to me that if you had removed
> > >the Steering Committee and expelled the Republicans, this would
>have
> > >been all over the egroups.  It was not.  You still haven't
>disclosed
> > >who this new alleged Steering Commitee is.  Moreover, contrary to
>the
> > >directives of the 2/10/01 meeting, no minutes of these alleged
> > >meetings were ever prepared or posted.  You also demanded the
> > >membership list from me, contrary to the Campaign's privacy
>policies
> > >from 2/10/01.  Maybe you repealed those directives, too, and are
> > >planning to disclose it when it suits your convenience.  But you
> > >won't persuade me!
> > >
> > >You argue about technicalities.  Yet, I gave you ample opportunity,
> > >in private emails with you, to respond to the claim that there (1)
> > >had been an election of you to the SC and (2) that the Republicans
> > >had been expelled.  You had ample opportunity to respond and yet
> > >provided nothing persuasive.  What's more, you changed your story
> > >every time about meeting dates, what occurred, etc.
> > >
> > >Lastly, I never stated that the new entity does not endorse an
> > >elected school board.  I stated that there was no intention to run
> > >that question in 2002 at this time, although we were still
> > >considering the issue.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2372
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-04 20:40:20
Subject:Four teachers jailed
Message:

http://www.thnt.com/news/backstories.pl?paper=2&id=476665

Four teachers jailed over work stoppage

               Published in the Home News Tribune 12/04/01

               THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

               FREEHOLD -- A judge jailed four striking teachers yesterday 
and threatened to continue with hundreds more if they do not return to work 
today.

               Superior Court Judge Clarkson S. Fisher Jr. took the 
extraordinary step against members of the Middletown Township Education 
Association for defying a back-to-work order he issued Thursday.

               Robert Abbot, 49, a 25-year teacher, was the first to be sent 
to jail after answering "yes" when asked about defying the order and saying 
he didn't intend to return to work today.

               He was taken to the jury box and held there while other 
hearings were conducted. Joining him later were Steve Antonucci, a 
physical-education teacher and football coach of the state champion 
Middletown South football team; Michelle Armistead, a special-education 
teacher; and Patricia Ayling.

               Two of the teachers excused were fined $50 a day until they 
return to work. Another was told to return today with medication to take to 
jail.

               The hearings ended late yesterday afternoon and will resume 
at 9 a.m. today with each person starting with those whose names begin with 
B.

               Striking teachers were last jailed in New Jersey in 1978, 
according to Karen Joseph, a spokeswoman for the New Jersey Education 
Association. One or more Camden teachers were jailed for 26 days then, she 
said.

               Classes were canceled Thursday, Friday and yesterday for the 
district's 10,500 students.

               The judge's move followed an afternoon of legal maneuvering 
by lawyers for the teachers and the school board.

               The courtroom scene was emotional as the first 10 teachers 
were called up one by one by Fisher. Many teachers in the gallery wept or 
held their faces in their hands as the process inched along.

               Middletown Education Association attorney Sanford Oxfeld 
appealed to the judge at one point to stop the jailing saying it would do no 
good. The judge refused saying he was determined to get the teachers to obey 
his order.

               "You're right, it does pain me to do this, no question," the 
judge told Oxfeld. "But this isn't about what makes me feel good."

               When the court session ended Abbot stood up in the jury box 
and asked the judge if he could give his wife the car keys. Abbot's wife met 
him halfway across the courtroom, and he gave her the keys. They kissed and 
hugged and she walked back to her seat in tears.

               Moments later a similar scene played out with Antonucci. 
Tracy Antonucci had been standing in the gallery holding the couple's 
11-month-old son, Jake. Antonucci came out of the jury box and hugged and 
kissed his wife and then returned.

               � copyright 2000 The Associated Press

               from the Home News Tribune

               Published: December 4, 2001

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2373
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-04 22:27:23
Subject:AWOL Activity Dec. 14th
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is calling on all our allies and supporters 
to make it out to this wonderful cultural and educational activity.  Support 
AWOL, ROOTS and Paper Tiger!!
___________________________________________
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: asif ullah

December 3,
2001
212-228-0450
MILITARY MYTHS SCREENING, PARTY & CONCERT
A Flick Exposing The Lies Of The
Military Promise

ROOTS and Paper Tiger present "Military Myths", a hot 27 minute video,
vividly exposing the military promise.  If you have ever been to the 
military, know anyone who has, been approached by military recruiters or 
seen military ads you know about the military dream -- travel,
adventure, discipline, loot for school... Who can better break down the
real deal behind these promises than the folk who've been through the 
military experience.  Military Myths breaks it down with the realness.

All original tracks from the off the meter new magazine and cd -- AWOL.
Artists from AWOL will be performing after the screening. Among them: 
Division X and the Welfare Poets.

Live performances will be followed by bumping hip hop, reggae and salsa
music till 1 am.

Mark your calendars for a dope movie, concert and party! ALL FREE!
FRIDAY   DECEMBER 14th   6:30 pm
@ 235 W. 23rd St.  between 7th and 8th ave.
For more info call (212)228-0450




_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2374
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 00:03:28
Subject:Judge jails 43 more striking teacher
Message:



>
>
>       Judge jails 43 more striking teachers; new talks scheduled
>
>       By JOHN CURRAN
>       The Associated Press
>       12/4/01 5:12 PM
>
>
>       FREEHOLD, N.J. (AP) -- Moving down a list alphabetically, a judge 
>ordered 43 more striking teachers to jail Tuesday for defying his 
>back-to-work order. In all, 47 were being held.
>
>       By the end of the day, the judge had reached the C's, and promised 
>to pick up the pace on Wednesday, with a second judge scheduled to hear 
>more cases.
>
>       "You are holding the keys to the jail," Superior Court Judge 
>Clarkson S. Fisher Jr. told one group of Middletown Township teachers 
>before sentencing them to one-week jail terms. "Any time you want to come 
>out, let me know and you are out."
>
>       It wasn't that simple, though.
>
>       More than 700 teachers in Monmouth County's largest school district 
>walked out Thursday, unwilling to continue working without a new contract. 
>The previous one expired June 30.
>
>       Fisher ordered them back to work Thursday, but nearly all defied 
>him, setting the stage for the first jailing of New Jersey teachers in 23 
>years.
>
>       At issue is a board of education proposal that would require the 
>teachers to pay more for their health insurance.
>
>       The teachers, who earn an average of about $56,000 annually, struck 
>briefly in 1998 before Fisher ordered them back to work. This time, they 
>have refused to return without a signed contract, saying they can't trust 
>the board of education to negotiate fairly.
>
>       "This hurts," said Deborah Lerman, 55, a veteran teacher who 
>gathered with hundreds of others in front of Fisher's courthouse Tuesday 
>morning. "It hurts deep. I've given these kids like I give to my own 
>children, and this is what I get."
>
>       A negotiating session was set for 8:30 p.m. Tuesday. But the two 
>sides appeared far apart as Fisher held a second day of contempt of court 
>hearings, bringing in teachers alphabetically by last name in groups of six 
>to 10 at a time.
>
>       A handful were excused because of medical problems or pressing 
>family issues, including sick or elderly relatives. But most defiantly told 
>Fisher they would not return to work unless there were a contract.
>
>       Among those jailed was Jean Bennett, who is on the union's 
>bargaining committee. Fisher later agreed to let her out to attend Tuesday 
>night's bargaining session. When Fisher was asked to appoint a mediator, he 
>refused to do so unless the teachers agreed to work in the meantime. They 
>would not.
>
>       "When you give in, you are saying, `Keep stepping one me,"' striker 
>Barbara Bacmeister told Fisher. "Sooner or later you have to stand up for 
>what's right," she said.
>
>       Art teacher Diana Bajor, 46, who was jailed Tuesday, bid a tearful 
>goodbye to her 12-year-old daughter, Allyson, in a corridor outside the 
>court.
>
>       "You have to be good. You have to be strong," she told the girl, who 
>cried as they hugged.
>
>       Officials said teachers were being housed two to a cell at the 
>county jail, which has a capacity of 1,328 and can accommodate both men and 
>women. About 1,000 prisoners were already there, said jail director Gary 
>Hilton. He said the teachers' safety would be assured, but said they would 
>be treated no differently from the general jail population.
>
>       "It will not be pleasant," Hilton said. "They will not enjoy their 
>stay with us."
>
>       School children, meanwhile, were eager just to get back to class.
>
>       "This is ridiculous. Our coaches are in jail," said Rob Stockley, 
>18, a member of the Middletown South High School state championship 
>football team who came to the courthouse to show his support. "I just want 
>to go back to school."
>
>       Middletown Township, a bedroom community near the Atlantic Coast 
>that has 10,500 students in its school district.
>
>       A district spokesman said about 100 teachers had reported for work 
>on Tuesday.
>
>
>
>
>       Copyright 2001 New Jersey Online. All Rights Reserved.
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2375
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 00:21:56
Subject:Re: New Brunswick People's Campaign article of 12/1/01
Message:

this is not true flavio.

my advice: organize against
J&J instead of J & C.

unite, don't split. -J


>From: Groovemeister007@...
>
>Matt,
>
>see my private reply to you.  The existing steering commitee of
>Xavier, Tom, Julie, Danny, Eryn, and Curtis still remain as members
>of the group and in charge of the group.

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2376
Sender:TheDailyTargum@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 07:49:26
Subject:Group gives honors to Larkin, others
Message:

Group gives honors to Larkin, others
By: Spencer Ackerman 


12/04/01
--------------------------

New Brunswick Tomorrow, an urban public-private partnership non-profit organization, announced yesterday that it will present achievement awards to City Schools Superintendent Ronald Larkin, Middlesex County Freeholder Jane Brady, Magyar Savings Bank President Robert Pastor and Mariam Merced, director of the Community Health Promotion Program at Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital on Little Albany Street, for their contributions to the city. The presentation will be held at the annual NBT holiday party next week at the Hyatt Regency Hotel on Albany Street.

"Each of the four individuals to be honored by New Brunswick Tomorrow has made significant contributions to improving the lives of everyone in the community and to the revitalization of the city," NBT Chairman Chris Kjeldsen, vice president for community and workplace programs at Johnson & Johnson, said in a prepared statement.

Larkin, who has been the city's superintendent for the past 21 years, will receive the Lifetime Community Service Award. The other three honorees will receive the Public/Private Partnership Awards for 2001.

--------------------------
Story Source: The Daily Targum








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2377
Sender:TheDailyTargum@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 07:56:22
Subject:Council to hear housing ordinance
Message:

Council to hear housing ordinance
By: Spencer Ackerman, Senior Writer
 


12/04/01
--------------------------

After continuous debates, language changes, reintroductions and rescheduling, the city council will finally entertain a second reading on a highly controversial ordinance to amend the city's Housing and Property Maintenance Code at its meeting tonight at City Hall on Bayard Street. If approved, the ordinance will require landlords to register information about their rental units, such as the number of per-unit bedrooms, with the city, pay a $10 annual registration fee to the Rent Leveling Office and arrange for an inspection every three years.

While the municipal government contends that the ordinance's stricter enforcement of code provisions will result in an improved, safer housing stock and will yield fewer landlord violations than the current request-based inspection system, many landlords vigorously oppose the bill for many reasons. Landlords argue that the ordinance will create several obstacles for landlords and will ultimately result in decreased affordable space available for renting.

Many think the ordinance will pass. "I haven't heard any comments from any council-people to indicate [they would] vote against it," said Councilman Joseph Schrum, noting he was unaware of any informal, pre-meeting council vote. Schrum was joined by Council President Robert Recine to argue the merits of the bill at last night's Rutgers College Governing Association's meeting at the Rutgers Student Center on the College Avenue campus. One of the ordinance's most vocal opponents, Lola Eovino of Edison who rents nine units in the city's Second Ward, expects the ordinance to pass "unless we get complete opposition to it, with students and [other] renters in the Second, Fifth and Sixth wards."

After opposing an earlier version of the ordinance � and joining a chorus of anti-ordinance supporters at an April council meeting � the RCGA now supports it. "It'll make landlords be responsible to students," said Legislative Affairs Committee Co-Chairman and senior Mark Cohen.

Landlords paint a much different picture. "It's not going to help students; it's going to hinder them," Eovino said. "It's going to put people out on the street. Landlords are going to be saying, 'I'm not going to rent to six people when inspectors say it's got to be four [occupants] and open myself up to a $500 fine,'" said Eovino regarding the first penalty for landlords convicted of violating the property maintenance code.

Under the ordinance, landlords must register the number and square footage of rental bedrooms with the city's Rent Leveling Office. For the past 20 years, the city's Housing and Property Maintenance Code has set minimum occupancy square footage at 90 square feet for rental space, which conflicts with the state minimum of 70 square feet. Since most of the city's housing stock is older than 20 years, landlords like Barbara Brecker, a city resident herself who owns eight rental units, are afraid that required number of inspections will bring inspectors who "immediately pull out a tape measure" to enforce conformity with a standard more expansive than the state's.

Revocation of an inspection certificate � which landlords must have in order to rent � may occur if a landlord permits "the rental unit to be occupied by more than the maximum number of occupants � after receipt of 30 days notice of such violation," according to the ordinance. If an inspector determines a bedroom is smaller than the requirement of 90 square feet, landlords like Brecker and Eovino fear they will only have 30 days to tell its occupant to leave.

Chief Housing Inspector Norman Pollitt said landlords will have another option: if his team of 10 inspectors finds "something that does not meet the code and does not pose a safety hazard and would be very, very difficult physically to correct" � such as "moving a structural wall to accommodate three, five square feet" � landlords can request a modification to the code for their property, which would be adjudicated by Pollitt's office.
--------------------------
Story Source: The Daily Targum








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2378
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 13:37:47
Subject:Oppose Gouging of Honest Landlords
Message:

Oppose Gouging of Honest Landlords

The proposed rental ordinance by the New Brunswick Democratic Machine is a 
thinly disguised revenue-generating ploy, and an attempt to constrict out of 
town landlords.

The increased inspections and fees are not intended to protect tenants' well 
being, as evidenced by the priority given to upscale, corporate housing and 
the destruction of low-income, "affordabl" housing in the city.

Rather the ordinance is aimed at further passing the tax/revenue burden off 
the shoulders of NB's giants, like J&J, onto the backs of honest and hard 
working small property owners. & simultaneously, to begin to lean on these 
landlords as the city bosses hand our neighborhoods over to the corporate 
monopolies, under the sugarcoated claim of "revitalization".

All city planning/development bodies (Devco, NB Tomorrow, &tc.) must be 
democratically constituted and accountable to the community.

join & support the New Brunswick Peoples Campaign. No Republicans!
Next meeting will be held 12:00noon Saturday, 5 January, NB public
library.

Cliff Smith
New Brunswick Peoples Campaign
732.214.8828

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2379
Sender:"can_bush" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 16:18:04
Subject:Fwd: Re: proposal
Message:

hang yrself in yr own words, flavio.  

we can work together, or you can move on, but the nbpc exists & is 
moving forward.

p.s. this proposal also was unanimously approved.


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
Tamara,

I want to first thank you for posting here what I think is the only 
recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As you can see, 
this board has unfortunately been hijacked by squabblers from every 
progressive group under the sun who are using it for their bickering.

That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your proposal.  At the 
June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to clearly state the 
issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction, in two short 
and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution stating that 
the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-month window, 
were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and Accountability 
Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2) winning the 
mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership also voted at 
that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it would help 
further these goals.

Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of Schundler into the 
NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-focused goals, 
spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more appropriate for 
this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find it 
unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign every couple of 
months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has already resolved 
to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and Accountability 
Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore, for this 
additional reason - the superfluousness of the proposal, I would vote 
it down.




--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@h...> 
wrote:
> Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
> 
> The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming election and 
Smashing 
> Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the Women's Caucus of the 
NBPC should 
> organize and unite with all other women's organizations and head 
the efforts 
> to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has already been in contact with 
Planned 
> Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW  and McGreevey's campaign to 
schedule 
> a NB event in October in  defense of women, public education, and 
unions and 
> to demand voting and working rights for all. At least one child 
care center 
> in NB has fired it's undocumented women teachers because these 
private 
> daycares are now contracted out by the state. This displacement of 
latina 
> community members in an attack on public education has to be 
organized 
> around and McGreevey be forced to take a position on it.
> 
> Smash Schundler!
> Women's Victory 2001!
> 
> Tamara
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
--- End forwarded message ---








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2380
Sender:"can_bush" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 16:29:10
Subject:Fwd: Re: [nbpc] next camapign meeting
Message:

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:

Keith- this is an excellent formulation.
It might should mention generally the callusion of the two party system 
in 
the overall maintainance of imperialism, and in particular the 
relationship 
of Republicanism to jingoism and the most reactionary, chauvinist, 
backward 
representatives of internaional finance capital. (ie- we operate in 
fundamental and complete opposition to fascism in all forms, etc...)
-Matthew


----Original Message Follows----
From: Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
To: "nbpeoplescampaign@e..." <nbpeoplescampaign@y...>, 
"njfo@e..." <njfo@e...>
Subject: [nbpc] next camapign meeting
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 1980 11:32:14 -0500

We should work out a statement of purpose that goes something like 
this:

Opposse republicans everywhere. Opposse democrats independently where 
we
can win and support them where republicans are a threat. Work to end 
the
two party system and replace it with a multi-party system.

This should be fleshed out but it can work as a basis.

Keith




To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@e...

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@e...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/
terms/




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/
intl.asp
--- End forwarded message ---








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2381
Sender:"can_bush" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 16:38:39
Subject:Fwd: Date of Meeting
Message:

--- In nbpcmembers@y..., Zofia Nowakowski <znowakowski@y...> wrote:
My understanding is that the next meeting will be on
Sept the 8th since we could not get a room for Sept.
25th.  Even then, we will be in a small room next door
to the library the library.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! 
Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
--- End forwarded message ---








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2382
Sender:"can_bush" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 16:43:09
Subject:Fwd: Gen'l Meeting at library 9/8
Message:

--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Paul McGee" <shorepaulie@h...> wrote:



                      This is to clear up the meeting confusion.  The 
library is reserved for September 8 at 2pm. The library wasn't 
available for the 25th.  If people want to meet outside, all power to 
you. Paul 
--- End forwarded message ---








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2383
Sender:"can_bush" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 16:46:44
Subject:Fwd: Re: New poll for nbpcmembers
Message:

--- In nbpcmembers@y..., Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
Wrong again, Cliff!

You can't seem to get it throught your head that on June 30, the 
Membership approved two "purposes" (yes, that's the word they used) 
of the Campaign.  I'll spell it out again, verbatim:

Therefore, the following two points are adopted as the purposes of 
the New Brunswick People's Campaign effective immediately:

	1.	To win the New Brunswick Democracy and Accountability 
Ordinance of 2001 by a popular referendum to be held at the 2001 
general election. ...

	2.	To win the mayor's seat and the two city council 
seats which will be open in the 2002 general election, running on a 
progressive platform demonstrably supported by the people as measured 
through surveying and a vote at a people's convention. 

Therefore, you are misrepresenting the facts when you claim that "the 
peoples' campaign [sic] is established on the basis of organizing the 
democratic struggle against the opponent of democracy: imperialism.  
beyond any particular one tactic."

I understand you don't like that, but that's what the Membership has 
decreed.  If you have a problem with that, go join another group that 
feels as you do.  This group does not.





--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> wrote:
> it is disingenuous (at best) to oppose these 2 "formulations".
> 
> the 1st is a statement of developed purpose &strategy.
> 
> the 2nd, 2 select tactics w/in an already determined context of 
purpose 
> &strategy.
> 
> the peoples' campaign is established on the basis of organizing the 
> democratic struggle against the opponent of democracy: 
imperialism.  beyond 
> any particular one tactic.
> 
> this struggle is not won by any specific referendum or election.  
rather, 
> these are to be used by the pc to...unite, organize, &seize 
peoples' 
> democratic power.
> 
> in supporting the 1st proposal, there is no necessary opposition to 
the 2nd. 
>   the argument is then about priority of positive tactics.
> 
> unless there is opposition to the proposed objective &strategy, 
which has 
> not been stated...
> 
> cs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
> >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpcmembers] New poll for nbpcmembers
> >Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:21:05
> >
> >
> >First formulation.
> >
> >
> >----Original Message Follows----
> >From: nbpcmembers@y...
> >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >Subject: [nbpcmembers] New poll for nbpcmembers
> >Date: 21 Aug 2001 22:40:04 -0000
> >
> >
> >Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
> >nbpcmembers group:
> >
> >In this poll, I am asking
> >members of this listserv - especially
> >and including the "lurkers" who do not
> >actively participate to vote on
> >which of these two formulations about
> >the direction of the Campaign they
> >personally agree with more.  Voting for
> >one or the other does not mean total
> >agreement, but I would like to get a
> >general sense of where the listserv
> >members stand.
> >
> >The first formulation is that offered
> >by Cliff Smith in his recent messages.
> >Summarized, it states: "the objective
> >of the nbpeoplescampaign is peoples'
> >democracy and political power.  the
> >nbpc will make strategic alliances
> >w/all democratic forces & tactical
> >alliances w/all democratic tendencies.
> >immediately, this means to support ras
> >baraka for nwk council, may '02.  to
> >smash schundler! keep mcgreasy in the
> >fire! in nov. '01.  then to take nb
> >elected school board, mayor & 2council
> >seats in nov. 02.  also to develop in
> >hp &elsewhere.  all alliances w/
> >republican representatives &positions
> >by nbpc leadership were/are anti-
> >democratic deviations at the peoples'
> >expense.  one cannot simultaneously
> >uphold the republican party platform &
> >peoples' democracy.  the nbpc must
> >establish itself on an uncompromising
> >democratic basis w/ uncompromising
> >democratic leadership."
> >
> >The second formulation was approved at
> >the July 28, 2001 meeting, and is as
> >follows: "[T]he following two points
> >are adopted as the purposes of the New
> >Brunswick People's Campaign effective
> >immediately: 1. To win the New
> >Brunswick Democracy and Accountability
> >Ordinance of 2001 by a popular
> >referendum to be held at the 2001
> >general election.  2.	To win the
> >mayor's seat and the two city council
> >seats which will be open in the 2002
> >general election, running on a
> >progressive platform demonstrably
> >supported by the people as measured
> >through surveying and a vote at a
> >people's convention."
> >
> >PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE.  THANKS!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >    o First formulation (Cliff Smith)
> >    o Second formulation (membership's 7/28 vote)
> >
> >
> >To vote, please visit the following web page:
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nbpcmembers/polls
> >
> >Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> >not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> >web site listed above.
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
--- End forwarded message ---








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2384
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 16:55:10
Subject:flavio recognizes meeting
Message:

(tamara's proposal passed unanimously)

>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
>Tamara,
>
>I want to first thank you for posting here what I think is the only
>recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As you can see,
>this board has unfortunately been hijacked by squabblers from every
>progressive group under the sun who are using it for their bickering.
>
>That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your proposal.  At the
>June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to clearly state the
>issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction, in two short
>and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution stating that
>the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-month window,
>were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and Accountability
>Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2) winning the
>mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership also voted at
>that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it would help
>further these goals.
>
>Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of Schundler into the
>NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-focused goals,
>spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more appropriate for
>this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find it
>unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign every couple of
>months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has already resolved
>to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and Accountability
>Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore, for this
>additional reason - the superfluousness of the proposal, I would vote
>it down.
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@h...>
>wrote:
> > Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
> >
> > The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming election and
>Smashing Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the Women's Caucus of the 
>NBPC should organize and unite with all other women's organizations and 
>head the efforts to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has already been in contact 
>with Planned Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW  and McGreevey's 
>campaign to >schedule a NB event in October in  defense of women, public 
>education, and unions and to demand voting and working rights for all. At 
>least one child care center in NB has fired it's undocumented women 
>teachers because these private daycares are now contracted out by the 
>state. This displacement of latina community members in an attack on public 
>education has to be organized around and McGreevey be forced to take a 
>position on it.
> >
> > Smash Schundler!
> > Women's Victory 2001!
> >
> > Tamara Dahan
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2385
Sender:"groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 17:35:59
Subject:Re: flavio recognizes meeting
Message:

Joe Smith has now taken to writing fiction!

I have always recognized the September 8 meeting.  I don't recognize 
the October 3 event, where, according to Joe, the following happened 
(this is per an email he sent me on November 15).


>>>
on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign general 
membership 
made the official decision that the republican agenda & the peoples 
campaign 
agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank bright, curtis 
warren, 
tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership & egroups. you can 
check 
with tamara dahan tamaradahan@... or cliff smith 
cliffsmith69@...

joe
>>>

Here's my question: where in Tamara's proposal is there anything 
about putting Joe on the Steering Commitee or expelling the 
Republicans????












--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> (tamara's proposal passed unanimously)
> 
> >
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> >Tamara,
> >
> >I want to first thank you for posting here what I think is the only
> >recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As you can see,
> >this board has unfortunately been hijacked by squabblers from every
> >progressive group under the sun who are using it for their 
bickering.
> >
> >That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your proposal.  At 
the
> >June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to clearly state 
the
> >issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction, in two short
> >and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution stating that
> >the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-month 
window,
> >were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and Accountability
> >Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2) winning the
> >mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership also voted at
> >that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it would help
> >further these goals.
> >
> >Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of Schundler into the
> >NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-focused goals,
> >spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more appropriate for
> >this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find it
> >unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign every couple 
of
> >months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has already resolved
> >to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and 
Accountability
> >Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore, for this
> >additional reason - the superfluousness of the proposal, I would 
vote
> >it down.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@h...>
> >wrote:
> > > Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
> > >
> > > The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming election and
> >Smashing Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the Women's Caucus 
of the 
> >NBPC should organize and unite with all other women's 
organizations and 
> >head the efforts to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has already been in 
contact 
> >with Planned Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW  and 
McGreevey's 
> >campaign to >schedule a NB event in October in  defense of women, 
public 
> >education, and unions and to demand voting and working rights for 
all. At 
> >least one child care center in NB has fired it's undocumented 
women 
> >teachers because these private daycares are now contracted out by 
the 
> >state. This displacement of latina community members in an attack 
on public 
> >education has to be organized around and McGreevey be forced to 
take a 
> >position on it.
> > >
> > > Smash Schundler!
> > > Women's Victory 2001!
> > >
> > > Tamara Dahan
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2386
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 18:05:24
Subject:flavio/tom recognize meeting, terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message:

at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering committee was 
abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body called the next 
meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused dates, but the 
facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to the home news & 
targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.

the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this flavier? -joe

>From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: flavio recognizes meeting
>Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:35:59 -0000
>
>Joe Smith has now taken to writing fiction!
>
>I have always recognized the September 8 meeting.  I don't recognize
>the October 3 event, where, according to Joe, the following happened
>(this is per an email he sent me on November 15).
>
>
> >>>
>on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign general
>membership
>made the official decision that the republican agenda & the peoples
>campaign
>agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank bright, curtis
>warren,
>tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership & egroups. you can
>check
>with tamara dahan tamaradahan@... or cliff smith
>cliffsmith69@...
>
>joe
> >>>
>
>Here's my question: where in Tamara's proposal is there anything
>about putting Joe on the Steering Commitee or expelling the
>Republicans????
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > (tamara's proposal passed unanimously)
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> > >Tamara,
> > >
> > >I want to first thank you for posting here what I think is the only
> > >recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As you can see,
> > >this board has unfortunately been hijacked by squabblers from every
> > >progressive group under the sun who are using it for their
>bickering.
> > >
> > >That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your proposal.  At
>the
> > >June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to clearly state
>the
> > >issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction, in two short
> > >and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution stating that
> > >the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-month
>window,
> > >were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and Accountability
> > >Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2) winning the
> > >mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership also voted at
> > >that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it would help
> > >further these goals.
> > >
> > >Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of Schundler into the
> > >NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-focused goals,
> > >spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more appropriate for
> > >this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find it
> > >unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign every couple
>of
> > >months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has already resolved
> > >to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and
>Accountability
> > >Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore, for this
> > >additional reason - the superfluousness of the proposal, I would
>vote
> > >it down.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@h...>
> > >wrote:
> > > > Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
> > > >
> > > > The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming election and
> > >Smashing Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the Women's Caucus
>of the
> > >NBPC should organize and unite with all other women's
>organizations and
> > >head the efforts to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has already been in
>contact
> > >with Planned Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW  and
>McGreevey's
> > >campaign to >schedule a NB event in October in  defense of women,
>public
> > >education, and unions and to demand voting and working rights for
>all. At
> > >least one child care center in NB has fired it's undocumented
>women
> > >teachers because these private daycares are now contracted out by
>the
> > >state. This displacement of latina community members in an attack
>on public
> > >education has to be organized around and McGreevey be forced to
>take a
> > >position on it.
> > > >
> > > > Smash Schundler!
> > > > Women's Victory 2001!
> > > >
> > > > Tamara Dahan
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2387
Sender:"groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 18:09:35
Subject:Re: flavio/tom recognize meeting, terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message:

You stated the abolition of SC occurred in October.  You told the 
Targum it was in August.  Now you sayt it took place in September.

Can you explain why you waited until November 12 to tell me, and 
November 30 to tell the press, of this alleged vote?  Could it be 
because IT OCCURRED ONLY IN YOUR MIND?





--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering committee was 
> abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body called 
the next 
> meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused dates, 
but the 
> facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to the home 
news & 
> targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
> 
> the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this flavier? -joe
> 
> >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >Subject: [nbpc] Re: flavio recognizes meeting
> >Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:35:59 -0000
> >
> >Joe Smith has now taken to writing fiction!
> >
> >I have always recognized the September 8 meeting.  I don't 
recognize
> >the October 3 event, where, according to Joe, the following 
happened
> >(this is per an email he sent me on November 15).
> >
> >
> > >>>
> >on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign general
> >membership
> >made the official decision that the republican agenda & the peoples
> >campaign
> >agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank bright, curtis
> >warren,
> >tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership & egroups. you 
can
> >check
> >with tamara dahan tamaradahan@h... or cliff smith
> >cliffsmith69@h...
> >
> >joe
> > >>>
> >
> >Here's my question: where in Tamara's proposal is there anything
> >about putting Joe on the Steering Commitee or expelling the
> >Republicans????
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> 
wrote:
> > > (tamara's proposal passed unanimously)
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> > > >Tamara,
> > > >
> > > >I want to first thank you for posting here what I think is the 
only
> > > >recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As you can 
see,
> > > >this board has unfortunately been hijacked by squabblers from 
every
> > > >progressive group under the sun who are using it for their
> >bickering.
> > > >
> > > >That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your proposal.  
At
> >the
> > > >June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to clearly 
state
> >the
> > > >issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction, in two 
short
> > > >and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution stating 
that
> > > >the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-month
> >window,
> > > >were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and 
Accountability
> > > >Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2) winning 
the
> > > >mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership also 
voted at
> > > >that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it would help
> > > >further these goals.
> > > >
> > > >Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of Schundler into 
the
> > > >NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-focused 
goals,
> > > >spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more appropriate 
for
> > > >this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find it
> > > >unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign every 
couple
> >of
> > > >months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has already 
resolved
> > > >to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and
> >Accountability
> > > >Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore, for this
> > > >additional reason - the superfluousness of the proposal, I 
would
> >vote
> > > >it down.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan" 
<tamaradahan@h...>
> > > >wrote:
> > > > > Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
> > > > >
> > > > > The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming election 
and
> > > >Smashing Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the Women's 
Caucus
> >of the
> > > >NBPC should organize and unite with all other women's
> >organizations and
> > > >head the efforts to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has already been 
in
> >contact
> > > >with Planned Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW  and
> >McGreevey's
> > > >campaign to >schedule a NB event in October in  defense of 
women,
> >public
> > > >education, and unions and to demand voting and working rights 
for
> >all. At
> > > >least one child care center in NB has fired it's undocumented
> >women
> > > >teachers because these private daycares are now contracted out 
by
> >the
> > > >state. This displacement of latina community members in an 
attack
> >on public
> > > >education has to be organized around and McGreevey be forced to
> >take a
> > > >position on it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Smash Schundler!
> > > > > Women's Victory 2001!
> > > > >
> > > > > Tamara Dahan
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2388
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-05 22:43:09
Subject:Re: flavio/tom recognize meeting, terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message:

as of sept.8 the republican allied steering committee was abolished.
the vote was based on cliff & keith's proposals which passed unanimously.

the meeting was attended by cliff, tamara, oscar, elionay, serenia, carlos, 
kenny, jonathan, abundio, fransisco, zofia, luceno, waron, joe, kevin, 
jennifer, diana.

i don't see how you are going to be stuck on the fact that the meeting 
didn't happen, when you knew it was happening. you set up a poll to counter 
cliff's proposal for the meeting sept8. you responded to tamara about why 
you would vote against her proposal for the meeting sept8.

i told the targum that we were re-instated in august & that the republican 
SC was abolished in october. i was at the library today before mike reilly 
called me to check the information and i offered to fax it to him. and you 
can have it too if you want to give me a fax#.

it is not my duty to report to you flavio, but i will answer any questions 
you might have...jackass.

-joe






>From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@...>

>You stated the abolition of SC occurred in October.  You told the
>Targum it was in August.  Now you sayt it took place in September.
>
>Can you explain why you waited until November 12 to tell me, and
>November 30 to tell the press, of this alleged vote?  Could it be
>because IT OCCURRED ONLY IN YOUR MIND?
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering committee was
> > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body called
>the next
> > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused dates,
>but the
> > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to the home
>news &
> > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
> >
> > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this flavier? -joe
> >
> > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: flavio recognizes meeting
> > >Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:35:59 -0000
> > >
> > >Joe Smith has now taken to writing fiction!
> > >
> > >I have always recognized the September 8 meeting.  I don't
>recognize
> > >the October 3 event, where, according to Joe, the following
>happened
> > >(this is per an email he sent me on November 15).
> > >
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign general
> > >membership
> > >made the official decision that the republican agenda & the peoples
> > >campaign
> > >agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank bright, curtis
> > >warren,
> > >tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership & egroups. you
>can
> > >check
> > >with tamara dahan tamaradahan@h... or cliff smith
> > >cliffsmith69@h...
> > >
> > >joe
> > > >>>
> > >
> > >Here's my question: where in Tamara's proposal is there anything
> > >about putting Joe on the Steering Commitee or expelling the
> > >Republicans????
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
>wrote:
> > > > (tamara's proposal passed unanimously)
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y... wrote:
> > > > >Tamara,
> > > > >
> > > > >I want to first thank you for posting here what I think is the
>only
> > > > >recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As you can
>see,
> > > > >this board has unfortunately been hijacked by squabblers from
>every
> > > > >progressive group under the sun who are using it for their
> > >bickering.
> > > > >
> > > > >That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your proposal.
>At
> > >the
> > > > >June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to clearly
>state
> > >the
> > > > >issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction, in two
>short
> > > > >and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution stating
>that
> > > > >the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-month
> > >window,
> > > > >were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and
>Accountability
> > > > >Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2) winning
>the
> > > > >mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership also
>voted at
> > > > >that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it would help
> > > > >further these goals.
> > > > >
> > > > >Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of Schundler into
>the
> > > > >NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-focused
>goals,
> > > > >spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more appropriate
>for
> > > > >this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find it
> > > > >unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign every
>couple
> > >of
> > > > >months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has already
>resolved
> > > > >to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and
> > >Accountability
> > > > >Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore, for this
> > > > >additional reason - the superfluousness of the proposal, I
>would
> > >vote
> > > > >it down.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan"
><tamaradahan@h...>
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming election
>and
> > > > >Smashing Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the Women's
>Caucus
> > >of the
> > > > >NBPC should organize and unite with all other women's
> > >organizations and
> > > > >head the efforts to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has already been
>in
> > >contact
> > > > >with Planned Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW  and
> > >McGreevey's
> > > > >campaign to >schedule a NB event in October in  defense of
>women,
> > >public
> > > > >education, and unions and to demand voting and working rights
>for
> > >all. At
> > > > >least one child care center in NB has fired it's undocumented
> > >women
> > > > >teachers because these private daycares are now contracted out
>by
> > >the
> > > > >state. This displacement of latina community members in an
>attack
> > >on public
> > > > >education has to be organized around and McGreevey be forced to
> > >take a
> > > > >position on it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Smash Schundler!
> > > > > > Women's Victory 2001!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tamara Dahan
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2389
Sender:TheDailyTargum@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-06 07:00:33
Subject:Factionalism plagues Campaign
Message:

Factionalism plagues Campaign
By: Michael Reilly, Staff Writer
 


12/06/01
--------------------------

Known for its short but turmoil-fueled history of political expulsions, neighborhood outreach, radical statements, complaints of stolen agendas and 24 percent of the vote in last year's unsuccessful attempt to seat three members of the city council, the local political movement known as the Peoples' Campaign is trying to reassert itself as a political force in the city for next year's mayoral and council elections. But separated by both ideological and methodical differences, two factions within the campaign have each recently attempted to gain control of the organization and lay claim to its legacy.

"I want to make sure that people know that Joe Smith and his faction represent nothing of the Peoples' Campaign that worked in the 2000 election, nor the 200 people that worked in it," said Tom DeGloma, a student at the Graduate School of Sociology and a member of the Peoples' Campaign's steering committee during its peak period of activity, during and immediately following the 2000 election.

DeGloma is angry that University College sophomore Smith � a one-time member of the steering committee who was expelled from the campaign in May 2000 for what DeGloma described as confrontational behavior � has recently been holding meetings as a self-described member of the organization's steering committee in the name of the Peoples' Campaign. The most recent meeting, attended by less than 10 people, took place Saturday at the Free Public Library on Livingston Avenue. Calling the question of control over the organization secondary while still disputing Smith's steering committee membership claim, DeGloma accused Smith of pilfering the reputation that the campaign established while canvassing for the 2000 elections.

Formed prior to the 2000 city council elections, the original goal of the campaign was to organize support behind three council candidates � Keith Joseph, Curtis Warren and Diego Morales � as alternatives to the victorious Democratic administration.

Calling the campaign "one of the most viable and progressive and broad movements seen in New Brunswick," DeGloma accused Smith and his faction of "picking fights with allies who were supportive of the Peoples' Campaign" during last year's elections.

Both DeGloma and the organization's general counsel, Flavio Komuves, dispute Smith's claim that he returned to the Peoples' Campaign steering committee during a committee meeting this past Sept. 8. While DeGloma denies that a legitimately called meeting occurred on that date, Komuves accepts the validity of the September meeting but disputes the steering committee decision, although he was not present at the time. Neither was able to provide any record or minutes of the meeting.

Smith insisted that both the Sept. 8 meeting and his reinstatement as a member of the steering committee were valid, calling DeGloma and Komuves' accusations "a complete lie." Lambasting DeGloma and his supporters, Smith accused them of being undeserving of the campaign's legacy of returning political control to the community at large through its defunct alliance with the city's Republican Party. "People can talk shit if they want to talk shit," Smith said. "The issue was community control then, and it's community control now � I always represented that platform."

The open, broad and informal nature of the campaign's record keeping may well have been the cause of the confusion. With no officially and universally recognized documentation of meeting times and internal voting, the validity of Smith's claim to is difficult to prove or disprove.
--------------------------
Story Source: The Daily Targum








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2390
Sender:TheDailyTargum@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-06 07:38:31
Subject:Housing ordinance succeeds
Message:

Housing ordinance succeeds
By: Michael Reilly, Staff Writer
 


12/06/01
--------------------------

After nearly two hours of listening to heated commentary from an assembled throng of over 80 people packed into council chambers in City Hall on Bayard Street, the city council unanimously passed a controversial three-year-old ordinance to amend the city's Housing and Property Maintenance Code. The ordinance changed inspection on the city's non-owner-occupied rental stock from request-based to once every three years and requiring landlords to register the number of bedrooms in their rental units.

"I think this [ordinance] will really make quality of life better for everyone," said Councilman Jimmie Cook immediately after casting the first vote of the night, a resounding "aye" that was directly followed by a sharp "boo," from local activist and University College sophomore Joe Smith, who promptly learned that he was out of order. Cook's composure unfazed, the councilman admitted that while the ordinance may hurt some city residents, that number would be drastically outweighed by the number "who have been suffering," and would benefit from the new inspection policy.

Landlords Frank and Lola Eovino � who rent nine units in the city's Second Ward and have been at the forefront of opposition to the ordinance � argued that the ordinance will drive poorer residents from their homes.

Calling the ordinance an "attack on the working poor," Frank Eovino reminisced about the immigrant tradition of coming to the United States and sharing a small apartment while working and saving, and eventually buying and renting out property as an income supplement � a tradition his own family took part in.

Both Eovinos also said that the ordinance lacked specific provisions explaining how landlords who lost their inspection licenses � necessary for renting � could regain them. However, Council President Robert Recine explained that the Housing and Property Maintenance Code provides an appeals process. "We're going to give people a chance to fix what's wrong," Recine said, adding that he expected to see the changes phased in over a three-year period.

In a group of landlords smoking and steaming outside City Hall after the vote, landlord Robert Maglies offered the most direct opposition to the ordinance, explaining that his lawyer James Tarella would immediately file suit against the freshly-passed ordinance in state superior court and filing a motion to prevent enforcement of the ordinance until he "gets his day in court."

But several landlords supported the ordinance, at least in spirit, as did the Rutgers College Governing Association and Rutgers College student chapter of the New Jersey Public Interest Research Group. Both groups sent delegations to the meeting to support the ordinance, feeling � as Public Information Officer Steve Lenox explained � that what the ordinance truly provided was "protection for tenants."
--------------------------
Story Source: The Daily Targum








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2391
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-06 12:09:40
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: Man Is Arrested in Threats Mailed to Abortion Clinics
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


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Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2392
Sender:"groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-06 17:24:37
Subject:Re: flavio/tom recognize meeting, terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message:

For the edification of other members, here is correspondence 
previously exchanged with Mr. Smith, whose efforts to steal the good 
name of the NBPC are, thankfully, falling flat on their face.

As you see, it was November 12 that he first told me that the 
Campaign  is not "accepting" membership from Republicans.  He also 
demands to be put on the egroup (even though he has been on and 
actively posting since August 12 - just after the vote to reinstate 
him as a member).

Then, on November 15 he changes his story and says that "known 
republicans" are "expelled."  Here, he specifically makes the claim 
that the vote occurred on October 3.

As you see, I gave him ample opportunity to present evidence before 
concluding any meetings after September 8 were invalid.

Also, the attached also shows that Mr. Smith asked me to improperly 
disclose the membership list, in violation of the Campaign's privacy 
principles.  Note that here - November 15 - is the first time he 
claims he is on the Steering Commitee.

Finally, although he has been asked repeatedly, Mr. Smith still 
refuses to disclose who he recognizes as the Steering Committee 
members.





----- Original Message -----
From: Flavio Komuves <flavio.komuves@...>
To: joseph smith <can_bush@...>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: MODERATE -- can_bush@... posted to nbpcmembers


> Joe,
>
> thank you for your message.  At this time, I am still exploring the
validity
> of your purported election to the Steering Committee and your 
request
> concerning moderator privileges.
>
> In particular, it concerns me that although I have asked them, none 
of the
> remaining members of the Steering Committee elected February 10, 
2001,
i.e.
> Warren, Hansen, Rosado, DeGloma, Poulous, or Loeb, either 
individually or
> collectively, called a membership meeting in October or since 
then.  In
> particular, I am asking who has called any meetings since 10/3?  
Given
these
> statements from the SC members,  I must question the legal validity 
of any
> purported meeting held since that time.  Moreover, even if there 
had been
a
> lawful meeting, I have reviewed the archives of nbpeoplescampaign 
and nbpc
> members and found only a passing reference to the expulsion of
republicans,
> and certainly no mention of any election of you to the SC.  
Although I
have
> seen scores of posts from you, it concerns me that you did not 
mention
these
> purported votes.  Indeed, one would think that the general counsel 
of a
> group, such as myself, would be personally notified if there were 
radical
> changes in the governance or policies of the group such as you have
> declared, and I have heard nothing from you in this regard before 
November
> 12.  In sum: if there was no lawful meeting, it follows that 
neither your
> purported election to the SC nor the Republicans' expulsion is 
valid.  I
am
> not making any conclusions at this time but am simply informing you 
of the
> issues I am considering.
>
> With regard to making the names on the egroup public, page 4 of the 
the
> 2/10/01 minutes state: "In addition, the Campaign has continuing 
privacy
> concerns that motivated the proposal for a phone tree rather than 
for the
> distribution of complete membership lists."  In light of that, and 
the
fact
> that you have mentioned no repealer of that dictum either by the
membership
> or any body of the Campaign, I question whether anyone - you, me, 
or any
> other Campaign member, should be revealing membership lists.  As 
such, I
do
> not think it would be appropriate to do so unless each named person 
gives
> consent in that regard.
>
> Please contact me if you have additional information for my 
consideration.
>
> Flavio L. Komuves
> General Counsel


----- Original Message -----
From: joseph smith <can_bush@...>
To: <flavio.komuves@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: MODERATE --


> i request a list of membership of the nbpcmembers egroups site and 
that
the
> membership click be readily accessible from the egroups site. the 
site
says
> there are 58 members.
> joe - NBPC steering committe
>



>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: joseph smith <can_bush@...>
> To: <flavio.komuves@...>
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:19 AM
> Subject: Re: MODERATE -- can_bush@... posted to nbpcmembers
>
>
> >
> >
> > on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign general
> membership
> > made the official decision that the republican agenda & the 
peoples
> campaign
> > agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank bright, 
curtis
> warren,
> > tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership & egroups. you 
can
> check
> > with tamara dahan tamaradahan@... or cliff smith
> > cliffsmith69@...
> >
> > joe
> >
> >
> > >From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@...>
> > >To: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> > >Subject: Re: MODERATE -- can_bush@... posted to 
nbpcmembers
> > >Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 01:25:54 -0500
> > >
> > >Joe,
> > >
> > >enlighten me, please.
> > >
> > >1. You are on this egroup already.  All steering committee 
members have
> > >moderator privileges.  I disapprove, among other things, 
messages not
> > >relating to NB and/or putting the NBPC in a bad light and/or 
breaching
> > >privileged communications.  On that basis,  I have approved some 
and
> > >disapproved some of your messages in the last few weeks - look 
at the
> > >message list if you want confirmation of the various things from 
you
I've
> > >approved.
> > >
> > >2. As the egroup moderator, I will of course comply with lawful
> directives
> > >of the membership or SC.  Can you point me to which lawful 
meeting
> directed
> > >that NBPC "is not accepting membership from republicans" (with 
minutes,
> > >preferably)?  Also, what was decided about people who are already
members
> > >but who are Republicans, i.e. what was the vote as to them - was 
there
a
> > >vote to expel them?  If so, and since expulsion can be based 
only on
SRR
> > >violations or conduct seriously inimical to the campaign, what 
conduct
> was
> > >charged?  Lastly, who (by name) are the republicans in question 
and how
> did
> > >you ascertain this?
> > >
> > >Please advise.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: Yahoo! Groups Notification
> > ><nbpcmembers-accept-LFy5rKA4q7JfUie0@yahoogroups.com>
> > >To: <nbpcmembers-owner@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 12:37 AM
> > >Subject: MODERATE -- can_bush@... posted to nbpcmembers
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > A message has been sent to the nbpcmembers group from
> > > >
> > > >   can_bush@...
> > > >
> > > > The message summary:
> > > > --------------------
> > > > FROM: can_bush@...
> > > > DATE: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:37:31 -0500
> > > > SUBJECT: Re: Patterson LTE response
> > > >
> > > > put me on this e-list flavio. the peoples campaign,
> > > > including egroups, is not accepting membership from
> > > > republicans. the vote has carried, will you comply? joe
> > > >








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2393
Sender:"Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-06 22:43:24
Subject:Re: flavio recognize meeting, terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message:

you are liars flavio/tom. sept. 8- republican allied steering committee 
abolished and all republicans voted out. that is when the general body 
called for the oct. 3 meeting. you wanna talk about credibility, then where 
is your retraction to the home news since now you recognize the sept. 8 
meeting?

unite the many, defeat the few!
NBPC 2002

tamara

>From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: flavio/tom recognize meeting, 
>terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:24:37 -0000
>
>For the edification of other members, here is correspondence
>previously exchanged with Mr. Smith, whose efforts to steal the good
>name of the NBPC are, thankfully, falling flat on their face.
>
>As you see, it was November 12 that he first told me that the
>Campaign  is not "accepting" membership from Republicans.  He also
>demands to be put on the egroup (even though he has been on and
>actively posting since August 12 - just after the vote to reinstate
>him as a member).
>
>Then, on November 15 he changes his story and says that "known
>republicans" are "expelled."  Here, he specifically makes the claim
>that the vote occurred on October 3.
>
>As you see, I gave him ample opportunity to present evidence before
>concluding any meetings after September 8 were invalid.
>
>Also, the attached also shows that Mr. Smith asked me to improperly
>disclose the membership list, in violation of the Campaign's privacy
>principles.  Note that here - November 15 - is the first time he
>claims he is on the Steering Commitee.
>
>Finally, although he has been asked repeatedly, Mr. Smith still
>refuses to disclose who he recognizes as the Steering Committee
>members.
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Flavio Komuves <flavio.komuves@...>
>To: joseph smith <can_bush@...>
>Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 8:17 PM
>Subject: Re: MODERATE -- can_bush@... posted to nbpcmembers
>
>
> > Joe,
> >
> > thank you for your message.  At this time, I am still exploring the
>validity
> > of your purported election to the Steering Committee and your
>request
> > concerning moderator privileges.
> >
> > In particular, it concerns me that although I have asked them, none
>of the
> > remaining members of the Steering Committee elected February 10,
>2001,
>i.e.
> > Warren, Hansen, Rosado, DeGloma, Poulous, or Loeb, either
>individually or
> > collectively, called a membership meeting in October or since
>then.  In
> > particular, I am asking who has called any meetings since 10/3?
>Given
>these
> > statements from the SC members,  I must question the legal validity
>of any
> > purported meeting held since that time.  Moreover, even if there
>had been
>a
> > lawful meeting, I have reviewed the archives of nbpeoplescampaign
>and nbpc
> > members and found only a passing reference to the expulsion of
>republicans,
> > and certainly no mention of any election of you to the SC.
>Although I
>have
> > seen scores of posts from you, it concerns me that you did not
>mention
>these
> > purported votes.  Indeed, one would think that the general counsel
>of a
> > group, such as myself, would be personally notified if there were
>radical
> > changes in the governance or policies of the group such as you have
> > declared, and I have heard nothing from you in this regard before
>November
> > 12.  In sum: if there was no lawful meeting, it follows that
>neither your
> > purported election to the SC nor the Republicans' expulsion is
>valid.  I
>am
> > not making any conclusions at this time but am simply informing you
>of the
> > issues I am considering.
> >
> > With regard to making the names on the egroup public, page 4 of the
>the
> > 2/10/01 minutes state: "In addition, the Campaign has continuing
>privacy
> > concerns that motivated the proposal for a phone tree rather than
>for the
> > distribution of complete membership lists."  In light of that, and
>the
>fact
> > that you have mentioned no repealer of that dictum either by the
>membership
> > or any body of the Campaign, I question whether anyone - you, me,
>or any
> > other Campaign member, should be revealing membership lists.  As
>such, I
>do
> > not think it would be appropriate to do so unless each named person
>gives
> > consent in that regard.
> >
> > Please contact me if you have additional information for my
>consideration.
> >
> > Flavio L. Komuves
> > General Counsel
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: joseph smith <can_bush@...>
>To: <flavio.komuves@...>
>Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:24 AM
>Subject: Re: MODERATE --
>
>
> > i request a list of membership of the nbpcmembers egroups site and
>that
>the
> > membership click be readily accessible from the egroups site. the
>site
>says
> > there are 58 members.
> > joe - NBPC steering committe
> >
>
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: joseph smith <can_bush@...>
> > To: <flavio.komuves@...>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:19 AM
> > Subject: Re: MODERATE -- can_bush@... posted to nbpcmembers
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign general
> > membership
> > > made the official decision that the republican agenda & the
>peoples
> > campaign
> > > agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank bright,
>curtis
> > warren,
> > > tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership & egroups. you
>can
> > check
> > > with tamara dahan tamaradahan@... or cliff smith
> > > cliffsmith69@...
> > >
> > > joe
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@...>
> > > >To: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> > > >Subject: Re: MODERATE -- can_bush@... posted to
>nbpcmembers
> > > >Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 01:25:54 -0500
> > > >
> > > >Joe,
> > > >
> > > >enlighten me, please.
> > > >
> > > >1. You are on this egroup already.  All steering committee
>members have
> > > >moderator privileges.  I disapprove, among other things,
>messages not
> > > >relating to NB and/or putting the NBPC in a bad light and/or
>breaching
> > > >privileged communications.  On that basis,  I have approved some
>and
> > > >disapproved some of your messages in the last few weeks - look
>at the
> > > >message list if you want confirmation of the various things from
>you
>I've
> > > >approved.
> > > >
> > > >2. As the egroup moderator, I will of course comply with lawful
> > directives
> > > >of the membership or SC.  Can you point me to which lawful
>meeting
> > directed
> > > >that NBPC "is not accepting membership from republicans" (with
>minutes,
> > > >preferably)?  Also, what was decided about people who are already
>members
> > > >but who are Republicans, i.e. what was the vote as to them - was
>there
>a
> > > >vote to expel them?  If so, and since expulsion can be based
>only on
>SRR
> > > >violations or conduct seriously inimical to the campaign, what
>conduct
> > was
> > > >charged?  Lastly, who (by name) are the republicans in question
>and how
> > did
> > > >you ascertain this?
> > > >
> > > >Please advise.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: Yahoo! Groups Notification
> > > ><nbpcmembers-accept-LFy5rKA4q7JfUie0@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >To: <nbpcmembers-owner@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 12:37 AM
> > > >Subject: MODERATE -- can_bush@... posted to nbpcmembers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > A message has been sent to the nbpcmembers group from
> > > > >
> > > > >   can_bush@...
> > > > >
> > > > > The message summary:
> > > > > --------------------
> > > > > FROM: can_bush@...
> > > > > DATE: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:37:31 -0500
> > > > > SUBJECT: Re: Patterson LTE response
> > > > >
> > > > > put me on this e-list flavio. the peoples campaign,
> > > > > including egroups, is not accepting membership from
> > > > > republicans. the vote has carried, will you comply? joe
> > > > >
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2394
Sender:"Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-06 23:40:38
Subject:Re: flavio recognize meeting, terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message:

vote carried unanimously liar.

oct3 meeting was called at sept8 meeting, making it legit liar.

now you got your dates in order liar?

retraction of letter to swaters@... is necessary liar.

what do you think would happen at the meeting sept8 when y'all republican 
allies don't show? -joe



>From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@...>
>
>For the edification of other members, here is correspondence
>previously exchanged with Mr. Smith, whose efforts to steal the good
>name of the NBPC are, thankfully, falling flat on their face.


>As you see, it was November 12 that he first told me that the
>Campaign  is not "accepting" membership from Republicans.  He also
>demands to be put on the egroup (even though he has been on and
>actively posting since August 12 - just after the vote to reinstate
>him as a member).Then, on November 15 he changes his story and says that 
>"known republicans" are "expelled."  Here, he specifically makes the claim 
>that the vote occurred on October 3.

>As you see, I gave him ample opportunity to present evidence before
>concluding any meetings after September 8 were invalid.
>
>Also, the attached also shows that Mr. Smith asked me to improperly
>disclose the membership list, in violation of the Campaign's privacy
>principles.  Note that here - November 15 - is the first time he
>claims he is on the Steering Commitee.
>
>Finally, although he has been asked repeatedly, Mr. Smith still
>refuses to disclose who he recognizes as the Steering Committee
>members.
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Flavio Komuves <flavio.komuves@...>
>To: joseph smith <can_bush@...>
>Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 8:17 PM
>Subject: Re: MODERATE -- can_bush@... posted to nbpcmembers
>
>
> > Joe,
> >
> > thank you for your message.  At this time, I am still exploring the
>validity
> > of your purported election to the Steering Committee and your
>request
> > concerning moderator privileges.
> >
> > In particular, it concerns me that although I have asked them, none
>of the
> > remaining members of the Steering Committee elected February 10,
>2001,
>i.e.
> > Warren, Hansen, Rosado, DeGloma, Poulous, or Loeb, either
>individually or
> > collectively, called a membership meeting in October or since
>then.  In
> > particular, I am asking who has called any meetings since 10/3?
>Given
>these
> > statements from the SC members,  I must question the legal validity
>of any
> > purported meeting held since that time.  Moreover, even if there
>had been
>a
> > lawful meeting, I have reviewed the archives of nbpeoplescampaign
>and nbpc
> > members and found only a passing reference to the expulsion of
>republicans,
> > and certainly no mention of any election of you to the SC.
>Although I
>have
> > seen scores of posts from you, it concerns me that you did not
>mention
>these
> > purported votes.  Indeed, one would think that the general counsel
>of a
> > group, such as myself, would be personally notified if there were
>radical
> > changes in the governance or policies of the group such as you have
> > declared, and I have heard nothing from you in this regard before
>November
> > 12.  In sum: if there was no lawful meeting, it follows that
>neither your
> > purported election to the SC nor the Republicans' expulsion is
>valid.  I
>am
> > not making any conclusions at this time but am simply informing you
>of the
> > issues I am considering.
> >
> > With regard to making the names on the egroup public, page 4 of the
>the
> > 2/10/01 minutes state: "In addition, the Campaign has continuing
>privacy
> > concerns that motivated the proposal for a phone tree rather than
>for the
> > distribution of complete membership lists."  In light of that, and
>the
>fact
> > that you have mentioned no repealer of that dictum either by the
>membership
> > or any body of the Campaign, I question whether anyone - you, me,
>or any
> > other Campaign member, should be revealing membership lists.  As
>such, I
>do
> > not think it would be appropriate to do so unless each named person
>gives
> > consent in that regard.
> >
> > Please contact me if you have additional information for my
>consideration.
> >
> > Flavio L. Komuves
> > General Counsel
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: joseph smith <can_bush@...>
>To: <flavio.komuves@...>
>Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:24 AM
>Subject: Re: MODERATE --
>
>
> > i request a list of membership of the nbpcmembers egroups site and
>that
>the
> > membership click be readily accessible from the egroups site. the
>site
>says
> > there are 58 members.
> > joe - NBPC steering committe
> >
>
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: joseph smith <can_bush@...>
> > To: <flavio.komuves@...>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:19 AM
> > Subject: Re: MODERATE -- can_bush@... posted to nbpcmembers
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign general
> > membership
> > > made the official decision that the republican agenda & the
>peoples
> > campaign
> > > agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank bright,
>curtis
> > warren,
> > > tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership & egroups. you
>can
> > check
> > > with tamara dahan tamaradahan@... or cliff smith
> > > cliffsmith69@...
> > >
> > > joe
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@...>
> > > >To: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
> > > >Subject: Re: MODERATE -- can_bush@... posted to
>nbpcmembers
> > > >Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 01:25:54 -0500
> > > >
> > > >Joe,
> > > >
> > > >enlighten me, please.
> > > >
> > > >1. You are on this egroup already.  All steering committee
>members have
> > > >moderator privileges.  I disapprove, among other things,
>messages not
> > > >relating to NB and/or putting the NBPC in a bad light and/or
>breaching
> > > >privileged communications.  On that basis,  I have approved some
>and
> > > >disapproved some of your messages in the last few weeks - look
>at the
> > > >message list if you want confirmation of the various things from
>you
>I've
> > > >approved.
> > > >
> > > >2. As the egroup moderator, I will of course comply with lawful
> > directives
> > > >of the membership or SC.  Can you point me to which lawful
>meeting
> > directed
> > > >that NBPC "is not accepting membership from republicans" (with
>minutes,
> > > >preferably)?  Also, what was decided about people who are already
>members
> > > >but who are Republicans, i.e. what was the vote as to them - was
>there
>a
> > > >vote to expel them?  If so, and since expulsion can be based
>only on
>SRR
> > > >violations or conduct seriously inimical to the campaign, what
>conduct
> > was
> > > >charged?  Lastly, who (by name) are the republicans in question
>and how
> > did
> > > >you ascertain this?
> > > >
> > > >Please advise.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: Yahoo! Groups Notification
> > > ><nbpcmembers-accept-LFy5rKA4q7JfUie0@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >To: <nbpcmembers-owner@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 12:37 AM
> > > >Subject: MODERATE -- can_bush@... posted to nbpcmembers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > A message has been sent to the nbpcmembers group from
> > > > >
> > > > >   can_bush@...
> > > > >
> > > > > The message summary:
> > > > > --------------------
> > > > > FROM: can_bush@...
> > > > > DATE: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:37:31 -0500
> > > > > SUBJECT: Re: Patterson LTE response
> > > > >
> > > > > put me on this e-list flavio. the peoples campaign,
> > > > > including egroups, is not accepting membership from
> > > > > republicans. the vote has carried, will you comply? joe
> > > > >
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2395
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-06 23:53:32
Subject:Re: Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks to NBPC members
Message:

boo hoo - to bad for you.

unite the many, defeat the few!

nbpc 2002

next meeting 5january 12:00noon
new brunswick public library

joe smith
steering committee


>From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>

>To Mr. Joe Smith and his agents and those acting in concert with him:
>
>Your request for a January 5 meeting is rejected.
>
>I will not debate you further in this regard.  I find no credible
>evidence to support your conclusions that at any lawfully called
>meeting, the existing Steering Committee was voted out and replaced.
>I find no credible evidence that there has been any expulsion of
>Republican Party members.  I find no credible evidence that New
>Brunswick People's Campaign ("NBPC") committed to pursuing the school
>board question in 2002 at this time.  I find no credible evidence
>that the membership, at the September 8, 2002 meeting, called a
>meeting for October 3, 2002 or at any time thereafter.
>
>I make these findings based on the statements from you and from other
>members, in particular, the following: (a) Your statements about
>dates and occurrences at meetings are grossly inconsistent; (b)
>Despite access to, and frequent postings to, these newsgroups, you
>did not inform me until November 12 or the newsgroups until December
>1 of the occurrence of these alleged votes; (c) You have not
>disclosed the members of the Committee allegedly elected.  All of
>this, among other things, leads me to conclude that your claims that
>at the lawful meeting of September 8, that any of the alleged votes
>listed above occurred, are untrue.  Likewise, I conclude that any
>other gathering thereafter was not a lawfully called meeting and any
>actions that occurred at such subsequent events are a nullity.
>
>You are ordered to cease and desist from using the name "New
>Brunswick People's Campaign" or any derivatives thereof (including
>nbpeoplescampaign or NBPC) for any purposes, with the exception of
>(a) making postings to the official newsgroup of the Campaign (i.e.
>this one) or to its unofficial newsgroup (i.e. nbpeoplescampaign), or
>(b) for the purpose of identifying yourself as a member thereof.
>
>You are specifically ordered not to publicly state any Campaign
>position on a candidate or an issue except to refer to the 2000
>Platform.  You are specifically ordered not to identify yourself as a
>member of the Campaign's Steering Commitee, or as a spokesperson
>therefor.  The Campaign reserves its right to seek any judicial
>remedies available to it under the law if you do not comply with this
>order, and reserves its rights to seek judicial remedies against you
>for past violations committed by you against the Campaign.
>
>If you object to any of this, I suggest you obtain attempt to obtain
>judicial relief from a court of competent jurisdiction.
>
>I want to thank the other members of the Campaign for bearing with us
>during this difficult period.  The efforts of Mr. Smith of the past
>few days - attempting a coup for all intents and purposes - have
>effectively been put down.  With this internal feud over, the leaders
>of the Campaign will continue now continue the work necessary for New
>Brunswick's progressives to succeed in the 2002 election.
>
(from flavio)
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering committee was
> > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body called
>the next
> > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused dates,
>but the
> > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to the home
>news &
> > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
> >
> > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this flavier? -joe
> >
> >
> > >From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: flavio/tom recognize meeting,
> > >terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:28:28 -0000
> > >
> > >Hold on... you said before that "Tamara's" proposal passed
> > >unanimously, now it's "Cliff and Keith's proposal"?  Shame, shame,
> > >Joe Smith!  You are getting your lies confused again!
> > >
> > >Also, in response to an earlier email, and just so there is no
> > >confusion, neither I nor the Steering Committee recognize your
> > >unilateral attempt to call a meeting for January 5, 2002.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > > > as of sept.8 the republican allied steering committee was
>abolished.
> > > > the vote was based on cliff & keith's proposals which passed
> > >unanimously.
> > > >
> > > > the meeting was attended by cliff, tamara, oscar, elionay,
>serenia,
> > >carlos,
> > > > kenny, jonathan, abundio, fransisco, zofia, luceno, waron, joe,
> > >kevin,
> > > > jennifer, diana.
> > > >
> > > > i don't see how you are going to be stuck on the fact that the
> > >meeting
> > > > didn't happen, when you knew it was happening. you set up a
>poll to
> > >counter
> > > > cliff's proposal for the meeting sept8. you responded to tamara
> > >about why
> > > > you would vote against her proposal for the meeting sept8.
> > > >
> > > > i told the targum that we were re-instated in august & that the
> > >republican
> > > > SC was abolished in october. i was at the library today before
>mike
> > >reilly
> > > > called me to check the information and i offered to fax it to
>him.
> > >and you
> > > > can have it too if you want to give me a fax#.
> > > >
> > > > it is not my duty to report to you flavio, but i will answer any
> > >questions
> > > > you might have...jackass.
> > > >
> > > > -joe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> > > >
> > > > >You stated the abolition of SC occurred in October.  You told
>the
> > > > >Targum it was in August.  Now you sayt it took place in
>September.
> > > > >
> > > > >Can you explain why you waited until November 12 to tell me,
>and
> > > > >November 30 to tell the press, of this alleged vote?  Could it
>be
> > > > >because IT OCCURRED ONLY IN YOUR MIND?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> > >wrote:
> > > > > > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering
>committee
> > >was
> > > > > > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body
> > >called
> > > > >the next
> > > > > > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused
>dates,
> > > > >but the
> > > > > > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to
>the
> > >home
> > > > >news &
> > > > > > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this
>flavier? -joe
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: flavio recognizes meeting
> > > > > > >Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:35:59 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Joe Smith has now taken to writing fiction!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I have always recognized the September 8 meeting.  I don't
> > > > >recognize
> > > > > > >the October 3 event, where, according to Joe, the following
> > > > >happened
> > > > > > >(this is per an email he sent me on November 15).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign
> > >general
> > > > > > >membership
> > > > > > >made the official decision that the republican agenda & the
> > >peoples
> > > > > > >campaign
> > > > > > >agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank
>bright,
> > >curtis
> > > > > > >warren,
> > > > > > >tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership &
>egroups.
> > >you
> > > > >can
> > > > > > >check
> > > > > > >with tamara dahan tamaradahan@h... or cliff smith
> > > > > > >cliffsmith69@h...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >joe
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Here's my question: where in Tamara's proposal is there
> > >anything
> > > > > > >about putting Joe on the Steering Commitee or expelling the
> > > > > > >Republicans????
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
><can_bush@h...>
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > (tamara's proposal passed unanimously)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y...
>wrote:
> > > > > > > > >Tamara,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I want to first thank you for posting here what I
>think is
> > >the
> > > > >only
> > > > > > > > >recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As
>you
> > >can
> > > > >see,
> > > > > > > > >this board has unfortunately been hijacked by
>squabblers
> > >from
> > > > >every
> > > > > > > > >progressive group under the sun who are using it for
>their
> > > > > > >bickering.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your
> > >proposal.
> > > > >At
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to
>clearly
> > > > >state
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction,
>in
> > >two
> > > > >short
> > > > > > > > >and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution
> > >stating
> > > > >that
> > > > > > > > >the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-
> > >month
> > > > > > >window,
> > > > > > > > >were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and
> > > > >Accountability
> > > > > > > > >Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2)
> > >winning
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership
>also
> > > > >voted at
> > > > > > > > >that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it
>would
> > >help
> > > > > > > > >further these goals.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of
>Schundler
> > >into
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-
> > >focused
> > > > >goals,
> > > > > > > > >spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more
> > >appropriate
> > > > >for
> > > > > > > > >this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find
>it
> > > > > > > > >unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign
>every
> > > > >couple
> > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has
>already
> > > > >resolved
> > > > > > > > >to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and
> > > > > > >Accountability
> > > > > > > > >Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore,
>for
> > >this
> > > > > > > > >additional reason - the superfluousness of the
>proposal, I
> > > > >would
> > > > > > >vote
> > > > > > > > >it down.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan"
> > > > ><tamaradahan@h...>
> > > > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming
> > >election
> > > > >and
> > > > > > > > >Smashing Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the
>Women's
> > > > >Caucus
> > > > > > >of the
> > > > > > > > >NBPC should organize and unite with all other women's
> > > > > > >organizations and
> > > > > > > > >head the efforts to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has
>already
> > >been
> > > > >in
> > > > > > >contact
> > > > > > > > >with Planned Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW
>and
> > > > > > >McGreevey's
> > > > > > > > >campaign to >schedule a NB event in October in
>defense of
> > > > >women,
> > > > > > >public
> > > > > > > > >education, and unions and to demand voting and working
> > >rights
> > > > >for
> > > > > > >all. At
> > > > > > > > >least one child care center in NB has fired it's
> > >undocumented
> > > > > > >women
> > > > > > > > >teachers because these private daycares are now
>contracted
> > >out
> > > > >by
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >state. This displacement of latina community members
>in an
> > > > >attack
> > > > > > >on public
> > > > > > > > >education has to be organized around and McGreevey be
> > >forced to
> > > > > > >take a
> > > > > > > > >position on it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Smash Schundler!
> > > > > > > > > > Women's Victory 2001!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Tamara Dahan
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2396
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-06 23:55:44
Subject:Re: Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks to NBPC members
Message:

at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering committee was 
abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body called the next 
meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused dates,
but the facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to the home 
news & targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.

poor flavier, can't beat a bunch of little kids. -joe




>From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks to 
>NBPC members
>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:29:45 -0000
>
>To Mr. Joe Smith and his agents and those acting in concert with him:
>
>Your request for a January 5 meeting is rejected.
>
>I will not debate you further in this regard.  I find no credible
>evidence to support your conclusions that at any lawfully called
>meeting, the existing Steering Committee was voted out and replaced.
>I find no credible evidence that there has been any expulsion of
>Republican Party members.  I find no credible evidence that New
>Brunswick People's Campaign ("NBPC") committed to pursuing the school
>board question in 2002 at this time.  I find no credible evidence
>that the membership, at the September 8, 2002 meeting, called a
>meeting for October 3, 2002 or at any time thereafter.
>
>I make these findings based on the statements from you and from other
>members, in particular, the following: (a) Your statements about
>dates and occurrences at meetings are grossly inconsistent; (b)
>Despite access to, and frequent postings to, these newsgroups, you
>did not inform me until November 12 or the newsgroups until December
>1 of the occurrence of these alleged votes; (c) You have not
>disclosed the members of the Committee allegedly elected.  All of
>this, among other things, leads me to conclude that your claims that
>at the lawful meeting of September 8, that any of the alleged votes
>listed above occurred, are untrue.  Likewise, I conclude that any
>other gathering thereafter was not a lawfully called meeting and any
>actions that occurred at such subsequent events are a nullity.
>
>You are ordered to cease and desist from using the name "New
>Brunswick People's Campaign" or any derivatives thereof (including
>nbpeoplescampaign or NBPC) for any purposes, with the exception of
>(a) making postings to the official newsgroup of the Campaign (i.e.
>this one) or to its unofficial newsgroup (i.e. nbpeoplescampaign), or
>(b) for the purpose of identifying yourself as a member thereof.
>
>You are specifically ordered not to publicly state any Campaign
>position on a candidate or an issue except to refer to the 2000
>Platform.  You are specifically ordered not to identify yourself as a
>member of the Campaign's Steering Commitee, or as a spokesperson
>therefor.  The Campaign reserves its right to seek any judicial
>remedies available to it under the law if you do not comply with this
>order, and reserves its rights to seek judicial remedies against you
>for past violations committed by you against the Campaign.
>
>If you object to any of this, I suggest you obtain attempt to obtain
>judicial relief from a court of competent jurisdiction.
>
>I want to thank the other members of the Campaign for bearing with us
>during this difficult period.  The efforts of Mr. Smith of the past
>few days - attempting a coup for all intents and purposes - have
>effectively been put down.  With this internal feud over, the leaders
>of the Campaign will continue now continue the work necessary for New
>Brunswick's progressives to succeed in the 2002 election.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering committee was
> > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body called
>the next
> > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused dates,
>but the
> > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to the home
>news &
> > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
> >
> > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this flavier? -joe
> >
> >
> > >From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: flavio/tom recognize meeting,
> > >terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:28:28 -0000
> > >
> > >Hold on... you said before that "Tamara's" proposal passed
> > >unanimously, now it's "Cliff and Keith's proposal"?  Shame, shame,
> > >Joe Smith!  You are getting your lies confused again!
> > >
> > >Also, in response to an earlier email, and just so there is no
> > >confusion, neither I nor the Steering Committee recognize your
> > >unilateral attempt to call a meeting for January 5, 2002.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > > > as of sept.8 the republican allied steering committee was
>abolished.
> > > > the vote was based on cliff & keith's proposals which passed
> > >unanimously.
> > > >
> > > > the meeting was attended by cliff, tamara, oscar, elionay,
>serenia,
> > >carlos,
> > > > kenny, jonathan, abundio, fransisco, zofia, luceno, waron, joe,
> > >kevin,
> > > > jennifer, diana.
> > > >
> > > > i don't see how you are going to be stuck on the fact that the
> > >meeting
> > > > didn't happen, when you knew it was happening. you set up a
>poll to
> > >counter
> > > > cliff's proposal for the meeting sept8. you responded to tamara
> > >about why
> > > > you would vote against her proposal for the meeting sept8.
> > > >
> > > > i told the targum that we were re-instated in august & that the
> > >republican
> > > > SC was abolished in october. i was at the library today before
>mike
> > >reilly
> > > > called me to check the information and i offered to fax it to
>him.
> > >and you
> > > > can have it too if you want to give me a fax#.
> > > >
> > > > it is not my duty to report to you flavio, but i will answer any
> > >questions
> > > > you might have...jackass.
> > > >
> > > > -joe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> > > >
> > > > >You stated the abolition of SC occurred in October.  You told
>the
> > > > >Targum it was in August.  Now you sayt it took place in
>September.
> > > > >
> > > > >Can you explain why you waited until November 12 to tell me,
>and
> > > > >November 30 to tell the press, of this alleged vote?  Could it
>be
> > > > >because IT OCCURRED ONLY IN YOUR MIND?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> > >wrote:
> > > > > > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering
>committee
> > >was
> > > > > > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body
> > >called
> > > > >the next
> > > > > > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused
>dates,
> > > > >but the
> > > > > > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to
>the
> > >home
> > > > >news &
> > > > > > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this
>flavier? -joe
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: flavio recognizes meeting
> > > > > > >Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:35:59 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Joe Smith has now taken to writing fiction!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I have always recognized the September 8 meeting.  I don't
> > > > >recognize
> > > > > > >the October 3 event, where, according to Joe, the following
> > > > >happened
> > > > > > >(this is per an email he sent me on November 15).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign
> > >general
> > > > > > >membership
> > > > > > >made the official decision that the republican agenda & the
> > >peoples
> > > > > > >campaign
> > > > > > >agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank
>bright,
> > >curtis
> > > > > > >warren,
> > > > > > >tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership &
>egroups.
> > >you
> > > > >can
> > > > > > >check
> > > > > > >with tamara dahan tamaradahan@h... or cliff smith
> > > > > > >cliffsmith69@h...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >joe
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Here's my question: where in Tamara's proposal is there
> > >anything
> > > > > > >about putting Joe on the Steering Commitee or expelling the
> > > > > > >Republicans????
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
><can_bush@h...>
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > (tamara's proposal passed unanimously)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y...
>wrote:
> > > > > > > > >Tamara,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I want to first thank you for posting here what I
>think is
> > >the
> > > > >only
> > > > > > > > >recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As
>you
> > >can
> > > > >see,
> > > > > > > > >this board has unfortunately been hijacked by
>squabblers
> > >from
> > > > >every
> > > > > > > > >progressive group under the sun who are using it for
>their
> > > > > > >bickering.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your
> > >proposal.
> > > > >At
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to
>clearly
> > > > >state
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction,
>in
> > >two
> > > > >short
> > > > > > > > >and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution
> > >stating
> > > > >that
> > > > > > > > >the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-
> > >month
> > > > > > >window,
> > > > > > > > >were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and
> > > > >Accountability
> > > > > > > > >Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2)
> > >winning
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership
>also
> > > > >voted at
> > > > > > > > >that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it
>would
> > >help
> > > > > > > > >further these goals.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of
>Schundler
> > >into
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-
> > >focused
> > > > >goals,
> > > > > > > > >spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more
> > >appropriate
> > > > >for
> > > > > > > > >this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find
>it
> > > > > > > > >unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign
>every
> > > > >couple
> > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has
>already
> > > > >resolved
> > > > > > > > >to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and
> > > > > > >Accountability
> > > > > > > > >Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore,
>for
> > >this
> > > > > > > > >additional reason - the superfluousness of the
>proposal, I
> > > > >would
> > > > > > >vote
> > > > > > > > >it down.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan"
> > > > ><tamaradahan@h...>
> > > > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming
> > >election
> > > > >and
> > > > > > > > >Smashing Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the
>Women's
> > > > >Caucus
> > > > > > >of the
> > > > > > > > >NBPC should organize and unite with all other women's
> > > > > > >organizations and
> > > > > > > > >head the efforts to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has
>already
> > >been
> > > > >in
> > > > > > >contact
> > > > > > > > >with Planned Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW
>and
> > > > > > >McGreevey's
> > > > > > > > >campaign to >schedule a NB event in October in
>defense of
> > > > >women,
> > > > > > >public
> > > > > > > > >education, and unions and to demand voting and working
> > >rights
> > > > >for
> > > > > > >all. At
> > > > > > > > >least one child care center in NB has fired it's
> > >undocumented
> > > > > > >women
> > > > > > > > >teachers because these private daycares are now
>contracted
> > >out
> > > > >by
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >state. This displacement of latina community members
>in an
> > > > >attack
> > > > > > >on public
> > > > > > > > >education has to be organized around and McGreevey be
> > >forced to
> > > > > > >take a
> > > > > > > > >position on it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Smash Schundler!
> > > > > > > > > > Women's Victory 2001!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Tamara Dahan
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2397
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-06 23:58:34
Subject:Re: Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks to NBPC members
Message:

you are liars flavio/tom. sept. 8- republican allied steering committee
abolished and all republicans voted out. that is when the general body
called for the oct. 3 meeting. you wanna talk about credibility, then where 
is your retraction to the home news since now you recognize the sept. 8 
meeting?

unite the many, defeat the few!
NBPC 2002

tamara


>From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks to 
>NBPC members
>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:29:45 -0000
>
>To Mr. Joe Smith and his agents and those acting in concert with him:
>
>Your request for a January 5 meeting is rejected.
>
>I will not debate you further in this regard.  I find no credible
>evidence to support your conclusions that at any lawfully called
>meeting, the existing Steering Committee was voted out and replaced.
>I find no credible evidence that there has been any expulsion of
>Republican Party members.  I find no credible evidence that New
>Brunswick People's Campaign ("NBPC") committed to pursuing the school
>board question in 2002 at this time.  I find no credible evidence
>that the membership, at the September 8, 2002 meeting, called a
>meeting for October 3, 2002 or at any time thereafter.
>
>I make these findings based on the statements from you and from other
>members, in particular, the following: (a) Your statements about
>dates and occurrences at meetings are grossly inconsistent; (b)
>Despite access to, and frequent postings to, these newsgroups, you
>did not inform me until November 12 or the newsgroups until December
>1 of the occurrence of these alleged votes; (c) You have not
>disclosed the members of the Committee allegedly elected.  All of
>this, among other things, leads me to conclude that your claims that
>at the lawful meeting of September 8, that any of the alleged votes
>listed above occurred, are untrue.  Likewise, I conclude that any
>other gathering thereafter was not a lawfully called meeting and any
>actions that occurred at such subsequent events are a nullity.
>
>You are ordered to cease and desist from using the name "New
>Brunswick People's Campaign" or any derivatives thereof (including
>nbpeoplescampaign or NBPC) for any purposes, with the exception of
>(a) making postings to the official newsgroup of the Campaign (i.e.
>this one) or to its unofficial newsgroup (i.e. nbpeoplescampaign), or
>(b) for the purpose of identifying yourself as a member thereof.
>
>You are specifically ordered not to publicly state any Campaign
>position on a candidate or an issue except to refer to the 2000
>Platform.  You are specifically ordered not to identify yourself as a
>member of the Campaign's Steering Commitee, or as a spokesperson
>therefor.  The Campaign reserves its right to seek any judicial
>remedies available to it under the law if you do not comply with this
>order, and reserves its rights to seek judicial remedies against you
>for past violations committed by you against the Campaign.
>
>If you object to any of this, I suggest you obtain attempt to obtain
>judicial relief from a court of competent jurisdiction.
>
>I want to thank the other members of the Campaign for bearing with us
>during this difficult period.  The efforts of Mr. Smith of the past
>few days - attempting a coup for all intents and purposes - have
>effectively been put down.  With this internal feud over, the leaders
>of the Campaign will continue now continue the work necessary for New
>Brunswick's progressives to succeed in the 2002 election.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering committee was
> > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body called
>the next
> > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused dates,
>but the
> > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to the home
>news &
> > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
> >
> > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this flavier? -joe
> >
> >
> > >From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: flavio/tom recognize meeting,
> > >terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:28:28 -0000
> > >
> > >Hold on... you said before that "Tamara's" proposal passed
> > >unanimously, now it's "Cliff and Keith's proposal"?  Shame, shame,
> > >Joe Smith!  You are getting your lies confused again!
> > >
> > >Also, in response to an earlier email, and just so there is no
> > >confusion, neither I nor the Steering Committee recognize your
> > >unilateral attempt to call a meeting for January 5, 2002.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > > > as of sept.8 the republican allied steering committee was
>abolished.
> > > > the vote was based on cliff & keith's proposals which passed
> > >unanimously.
> > > >
> > > > the meeting was attended by cliff, tamara, oscar, elionay,
>serenia,
> > >carlos,
> > > > kenny, jonathan, abundio, fransisco, zofia, luceno, waron, joe,
> > >kevin,
> > > > jennifer, diana.
> > > >
> > > > i don't see how you are going to be stuck on the fact that the
> > >meeting
> > > > didn't happen, when you knew it was happening. you set up a
>poll to
> > >counter
> > > > cliff's proposal for the meeting sept8. you responded to tamara
> > >about why
> > > > you would vote against her proposal for the meeting sept8.
> > > >
> > > > i told the targum that we were re-instated in august & that the
> > >republican
> > > > SC was abolished in october. i was at the library today before
>mike
> > >reilly
> > > > called me to check the information and i offered to fax it to
>him.
> > >and you
> > > > can have it too if you want to give me a fax#.
> > > >
> > > > it is not my duty to report to you flavio, but i will answer any
> > >questions
> > > > you might have...jackass.
> > > >
> > > > -joe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> > > >
> > > > >You stated the abolition of SC occurred in October.  You told
>the
> > > > >Targum it was in August.  Now you sayt it took place in
>September.
> > > > >
> > > > >Can you explain why you waited until November 12 to tell me,
>and
> > > > >November 30 to tell the press, of this alleged vote?  Could it
>be
> > > > >because IT OCCURRED ONLY IN YOUR MIND?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> > >wrote:
> > > > > > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering
>committee
> > >was
> > > > > > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body
> > >called
> > > > >the next
> > > > > > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused
>dates,
> > > > >but the
> > > > > > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to
>the
> > >home
> > > > >news &
> > > > > > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this
>flavier? -joe
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: flavio recognizes meeting
> > > > > > >Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:35:59 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Joe Smith has now taken to writing fiction!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I have always recognized the September 8 meeting.  I don't
> > > > >recognize
> > > > > > >the October 3 event, where, according to Joe, the following
> > > > >happened
> > > > > > >(this is per an email he sent me on November 15).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign
> > >general
> > > > > > >membership
> > > > > > >made the official decision that the republican agenda & the
> > >peoples
> > > > > > >campaign
> > > > > > >agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank
>bright,
> > >curtis
> > > > > > >warren,
> > > > > > >tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership &
>egroups.
> > >you
> > > > >can
> > > > > > >check
> > > > > > >with tamara dahan tamaradahan@h... or cliff smith
> > > > > > >cliffsmith69@h...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >joe
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Here's my question: where in Tamara's proposal is there
> > >anything
> > > > > > >about putting Joe on the Steering Commitee or expelling the
> > > > > > >Republicans????
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
><can_bush@h...>
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > (tamara's proposal passed unanimously)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y...
>wrote:
> > > > > > > > >Tamara,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I want to first thank you for posting here what I
>think is
> > >the
> > > > >only
> > > > > > > > >recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As
>you
> > >can
> > > > >see,
> > > > > > > > >this board has unfortunately been hijacked by
>squabblers
> > >from
> > > > >every
> > > > > > > > >progressive group under the sun who are using it for
>their
> > > > > > >bickering.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your
> > >proposal.
> > > > >At
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to
>clearly
> > > > >state
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction,
>in
> > >two
> > > > >short
> > > > > > > > >and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution
> > >stating
> > > > >that
> > > > > > > > >the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-
> > >month
> > > > > > >window,
> > > > > > > > >were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and
> > > > >Accountability
> > > > > > > > >Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2)
> > >winning
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership
>also
> > > > >voted at
> > > > > > > > >that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it
>would
> > >help
> > > > > > > > >further these goals.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of
>Schundler
> > >into
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-
> > >focused
> > > > >goals,
> > > > > > > > >spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more
> > >appropriate
> > > > >for
> > > > > > > > >this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find
>it
> > > > > > > > >unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign
>every
> > > > >couple
> > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has
>already
> > > > >resolved
> > > > > > > > >to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and
> > > > > > >Accountability
> > > > > > > > >Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore,
>for
> > >this
> > > > > > > > >additional reason - the superfluousness of the
>proposal, I
> > > > >would
> > > > > > >vote
> > > > > > > > >it down.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan"
> > > > ><tamaradahan@h...>
> > > > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming
> > >election
> > > > >and
> > > > > > > > >Smashing Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the
>Women's
> > > > >Caucus
> > > > > > >of the
> > > > > > > > >NBPC should organize and unite with all other women's
> > > > > > >organizations and
> > > > > > > > >head the efforts to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has
>already
> > >been
> > > > >in
> > > > > > >contact
> > > > > > > > >with Planned Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW
>and
> > > > > > >McGreevey's
> > > > > > > > >campaign to >schedule a NB event in October in
>defense of
> > > > >women,
> > > > > > >public
> > > > > > > > >education, and unions and to demand voting and working
> > >rights
> > > > >for
> > > > > > >all. At
> > > > > > > > >least one child care center in NB has fired it's
> > >undocumented
> > > > > > >women
> > > > > > > > >teachers because these private daycares are now
>contracted
> > >out
> > > > >by
> > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >state. This displacement of latina community members
>in an
> > > > >attack
> > > > > > >on public
> > > > > > > > >education has to be organized around and McGreevey be
> > >forced to
> > > > > > >take a
> > > > > > > > >position on it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Smash Schundler!
> > > > > > > > > > Women's Victory 2001!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Tamara Dahan
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2398
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-07 12:26:44
Subject:MIXTA-Pagan Images!!
Message:

ProLibertad proudly forwards this special email to all our supporters and 
allies.  Edwin Pagan has been an integral part of the ProLibertad Campaign.  
He has worked with us for years developing literature, serving on the Media 
Committee and helping us outreach to the progressive artist community to 
bring the issue of the colonization of Puerto Rico and its Political 
Prisoners.  Edwin has also represented ProLibertad at the United Nations 
Decolonization Hearings for the past three years.  His participation, energy 
and creativity has brought much to our movement.  Please visit MIXTA and see 
for yourself the amazing talent we have working with us.

Please support our cultural activists/workers.  We proudly promote this 
activity at MIXTA and ask people to visit this wonderful exhibition.

ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
______________________________________

Pagan: Selected Prints
Selected award-winning black and white documentary photographs and urban
portraits by photographer, filmmaker and cultural activist, Edwin Pag�n. 
Shot from an insider's point-of-view, Pag�n's images capture the
essence, character and humor of his subjects with a dignity and respect
seldom captured on film.

Opening reception: Friday, December 14, 2001 - 6:00PM
On display through January 30, 2001

Mixta Gallery
1706 Lexington Avenue
106th & 107th Street - Spanish Harlem)
Exhibit info & gallery hours: 212-828-9173


About Edwin Pag�n --
Edwin Pag�n is a New York City-based writer, photographer, filmmaker and
cultural activist. He has been recognized by Comit� Noviembre for his
cultural work in the Puerto Rican community in New York and received the 
2000 BRIO award in screenwriting for "El Angelito Negro (The Black Angel)," 
a film that chronicles the forced migration of Puerto Ricans during the 
1950s. In 1990 Mr. Pag�n co-founded the Latino arts collective PAX Theatre 
Community and today serves as the organization's executive director. Mr. 
Pag�n also sits on the Communications Committee of the NALIP - northeast 
region.



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2399
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-07 19:41:46
Subject:Re: Final conclusions...
Message:

matt, regardless of flavio's statements, the republican allied steering 
committee has been abolished & replaced. i told you to verify with keith 
joseph, of U&S, who participated in the abolishment of this committee. why 
haven't you done that?

the nbpc is moving forward with campaign 2002.
next meeting is 5 january 12:00noon NB public library

if you question the "personal (?) memorandum" why don't you bring it out 
into the open? - joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>
>Flavio- Point of Clarification: who is issuing said orders?  You have 
>stated to me in a personal (?) memorandum that the original SC members are 
>in fact still in place.  When will the membership (?) hear from them, and 
>learn their intentions from them, rather than through a spokesperson?  
>-Matt
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks to
>NBPC members
>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:29:45 -0000
>
>To Mr. Joe Smith and his agents and those acting in concert with him:
>
>Your request for a January 5 meeting is rejected.
>
>I will not debate you further in this regard.  I find no credible
>evidence to support your conclusions that at any lawfully called
>meeting, the existing Steering Committee was voted out and replaced.
>I find no credible evidence that there has been any expulsion of
>Republican Party members.  I find no credible evidence that New
>Brunswick People's Campaign ("NBPC") committed to pursuing the school
>board question in 2002 at this time.  I find no credible evidence
>that the membership, at the September 8, 2002 meeting, called a
>meeting for October 3, 2002 or at any time thereafter.
>
>I make these findings based on the statements from you and from other
>members, in particular, the following: (a) Your statements about
>dates and occurrences at meetings are grossly inconsistent; (b)
>Despite access to, and frequent postings to, these newsgroups, you
>did not inform me until November 12 or the newsgroups until December
>1 of the occurrence of these alleged votes; (c) You have not
>disclosed the members of the Committee allegedly elected.  All of
>this, among other things, leads me to conclude that your claims that
>at the lawful meeting of September 8, that any of the alleged votes
>listed above occurred, are untrue.  Likewise, I conclude that any
>other gathering thereafter was not a lawfully called meeting and any
>actions that occurred at such subsequent events are a nullity.
>
>You are ordered to cease and desist from using the name "New
>Brunswick People's Campaign" or any derivatives thereof (including
>nbpeoplescampaign or NBPC) for any purposes, with the exception of
>(a) making postings to the official newsgroup of the Campaign (i.e.
>this one) or to its unofficial newsgroup (i.e. nbpeoplescampaign), or
>(b) for the purpose of identifying yourself as a member thereof.
>
>You are specifically ordered not to publicly state any Campaign
>position on a candidate or an issue except to refer to the 2000
>Platform.  You are specifically ordered not to identify yourself as a
>member of the Campaign's Steering Commitee, or as a spokesperson
>therefor.  The Campaign reserves its right to seek any judicial
>remedies available to it under the law if you do not comply with this
>order, and reserves its rights to seek judicial remedies against you
>for past violations committed by you against the Campaign.
>
>If you object to any of this, I suggest you obtain attempt to obtain
>judicial relief from a court of competent jurisdiction.
>
>I want to thank the other members of the Campaign for bearing with us
>during this difficult period.  The efforts of Mr. Smith of the past
>few days - attempting a coup for all intents and purposes - have
>effectively been put down.  With this internal feud over, the leaders
>of the Campaign will continue now continue the work necessary for New
>Brunswick's progressives to succeed in the 2002 election.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>  > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering committee was
>  > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body called
>the next
>  > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused dates,
>but the
>  > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to the home
>news &
>  > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
>  >
>  > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this flavier? -joe
>  >
>  >
>  > >From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
>  > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  > >Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: flavio/tom recognize meeting,
>  > >terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>  > >Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:28:28 -0000
>  > >
>  > >Hold on... you said before that "Tamara's" proposal passed
>  > >unanimously, now it's "Cliff and Keith's proposal"?  Shame, shame,
>  > >Joe Smith!  You are getting your lies confused again!
>  > >
>  > >Also, in response to an earlier email, and just so there is no
>  > >confusion, neither I nor the Steering Committee recognize your
>  > >unilateral attempt to call a meeting for January 5, 2002.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>  > > > as of sept.8 the republican allied steering committee was
>abolished.
>  > > > the vote was based on cliff & keith's proposals which passed
>  > >unanimously.
>  > > >
>  > > > the meeting was attended by cliff, tamara, oscar, elionay,
>serenia,
>  > >carlos,
>  > > > kenny, jonathan, abundio, fransisco, zofia, luceno, waron, joe,
>  > >kevin,
>  > > > jennifer, diana.
>  > > >
>  > > > i don't see how you are going to be stuck on the fact that the
>  > >meeting
>  > > > didn't happen, when you knew it was happening. you set up a
>poll to
>  > >counter
>  > > > cliff's proposal for the meeting sept8. you responded to tamara
>  > >about why
>  > > > you would vote against her proposal for the meeting sept8.
>  > > >
>  > > > i told the targum that we were re-instated in august & that the
>  > >republican
>  > > > SC was abolished in october. i was at the library today before
>mike
>  > >reilly
>  > > > called me to check the information and i offered to fax it to
>him.
>  > >and you
>  > > > can have it too if you want to give me a fax#.
>  > > >
>  > > > it is not my duty to report to you flavio, but i will answer any
>  > >questions
>  > > > you might have...jackass.
>  > > >
>  > > > -joe
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
>  > > >
>  > > > >You stated the abolition of SC occurred in October.  You told
>the
>  > > > >Targum it was in August.  Now you sayt it took place in
>September.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >Can you explain why you waited until November 12 to tell me,
>and
>  > > > >November 30 to tell the press, of this alleged vote?  Could it
>be
>  > > > >because IT OCCURRED ONLY IN YOUR MIND?
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
>  > >wrote:
>  > > > > > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering
>committee
>  > >was
>  > > > > > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body
>  > >called
>  > > > >the next
>  > > > > > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused
>dates,
>  > > > >but the
>  > > > > > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to
>the
>  > >home
>  > > > >news &
>  > > > > > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this
>flavier? -joe
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
>  > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: flavio recognizes meeting
>  > > > > > >Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:35:59 -0000
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >Joe Smith has now taken to writing fiction!
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >I have always recognized the September 8 meeting.  I don't
>  > > > >recognize
>  > > > > > >the October 3 event, where, according to Joe, the following
>  > > > >happened
>  > > > > > >(this is per an email he sent me on November 15).
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >>>
>  > > > > > >on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign
>  > >general
>  > > > > > >membership
>  > > > > > >made the official decision that the republican agenda & the
>  > >peoples
>  > > > > > >campaign
>  > > > > > >agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank
>bright,
>  > >curtis
>  > > > > > >warren,
>  > > > > > >tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership &
>egroups.
>  > >you
>  > > > >can
>  > > > > > >check
>  > > > > > >with tamara dahan tamaradahan@h... or cliff smith
>  > > > > > >cliffsmith69@h...
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >joe
>  > > > > > > >>>
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >Here's my question: where in Tamara's proposal is there
>  > >anything
>  > > > > > >about putting Joe on the Steering Commitee or expelling the
>  > > > > > >Republicans????
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
><can_bush@h...>
>  > > > >wrote:
>  > > > > > > > (tamara's proposal passed unanimously)
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y...
>wrote:
>  > > > > > > > >Tamara,
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >I want to first thank you for posting here what I
>think is
>  > >the
>  > > > >only
>  > > > > > > > >recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As
>you
>  > >can
>  > > > >see,
>  > > > > > > > >this board has unfortunately been hijacked by
>squabblers
>  > >from
>  > > > >every
>  > > > > > > > >progressive group under the sun who are using it for
>their
>  > > > > > >bickering.
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your
>  > >proposal.
>  > > > >At
>  > > > > > >the
>  > > > > > > > >June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to
>clearly
>  > > > >state
>  > > > > > >the
>  > > > > > > > >issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction,
>in
>  > >two
>  > > > >short
>  > > > > > > > >and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution
>  > >stating
>  > > > >that
>  > > > > > > > >the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-
>  > >month
>  > > > > > >window,
>  > > > > > > > >were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and
>  > > > >Accountability
>  > > > > > > > >Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2)
>  > >winning
>  > > > >the
>  > > > > > > > >mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership
>also
>  > > > >voted at
>  > > > > > > > >that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it
>would
>  > >help
>  > > > > > > > >further these goals.
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of
>Schundler
>  > >into
>  > > > >the
>  > > > > > > > >NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-
>  > >focused
>  > > > >goals,
>  > > > > > > > >spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more
>  > >appropriate
>  > > > >for
>  > > > > > > > >this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find
>it
>  > > > > > > > >unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign
>every
>  > > > >couple
>  > > > > > >of
>  > > > > > > > >months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has
>already
>  > > > >resolved
>  > > > > > > > >to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and
>  > > > > > >Accountability
>  > > > > > > > >Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore,
>for
>  > >this
>  > > > > > > > >additional reason - the superfluousness of the
>proposal, I
>  > > > >would
>  > > > > > >vote
>  > > > > > > > >it down.
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan"
>  > > > ><tamaradahan@h...>
>  > > > > > > > >wrote:
>  > > > > > > > > > Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > > The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming
>  > >election
>  > > > >and
>  > > > > > > > >Smashing Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the
>Women's
>  > > > >Caucus
>  > > > > > >of the
>  > > > > > > > >NBPC should organize and unite with all other women's
>  > > > > > >organizations and
>  > > > > > > > >head the efforts to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has
>already
>  > >been
>  > > > >in
>  > > > > > >contact
>  > > > > > > > >with Planned Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW
>and
>  > > > > > >McGreevey's
>  > > > > > > > >campaign to >schedule a NB event in October in
>defense of
>  > > > >women,
>  > > > > > >public
>  > > > > > > > >education, and unions and to demand voting and working
>  > >rights
>  > > > >for
>  > > > > > >all. At
>  > > > > > > > >least one child care center in NB has fired it's
>  > >undocumented
>  > > > > > >women
>  > > > > > > > >teachers because these private daycares are now
>contracted
>  > >out
>  > > > >by
>  > > > > > >the
>  > > > > > > > >state. This displacement of latina community members
>in an
>  > > > >attack
>  > > > > > >on public
>  > > > > > > > >education has to be organized around and McGreevey be
>  > >forced to
>  > > > > > >take a
>  > > > > > > > >position on it.
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > > Smash Schundler!
>  > > > > > > > > > Women's Victory 2001!
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > > Tamara Dahan
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > >
>  >_________________________________________________________________
>  > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>  > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >
>  > >_________________________________________________________________
>  > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>  > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  > > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
>  > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>  > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  > >
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  > _________________________________________________________________
>  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2400
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-07 19:48:10
Subject:Re: Final conclusions...
Message:

what's with this matt? for some reason people feel comfortable with this 
relationship to you, can u explain? is this your trend? -joe


>From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>


>Matt,
>
>I have responded to you privately.
>
>Flavio
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2401
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-07 20:01:48
Subject:Fwd: Re: Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks to NBPC members
Message:

keith, when do you plan on addressing the world you live in?
their next move will probably put me in court with a liable case as well as 
the end of nbpc. your already a real ass for not saying anything this long, 
is this a game to you? -joe


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpcmembers] Final conclusions; cease and desist order; 
>thanks to NBPC members
>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 18:29:08
>
>Flavio- Point of Clarification: who is issuing said orders?  You have 
>stated to me in a personal (?) memorandum that the original SC members are 
>in fact still in place.  When will the membership (?) hear from them, and 
>learn their intentions from them, rather than through a spokesperson?  
>-Matt
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks to
>NBPC members
>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:29:45 -0000
>
>To Mr. Joe Smith and his agents and those acting in concert with him:
>
>Your request for a January 5 meeting is rejected.
>
>I will not debate you further in this regard.  I find no credible
>evidence to support your conclusions that at any lawfully called
>meeting, the existing Steering Committee was voted out and replaced.
>I find no credible evidence that there has been any expulsion of
>Republican Party members.  I find no credible evidence that New
>Brunswick People's Campaign ("NBPC") committed to pursuing the school
>board question in 2002 at this time.  I find no credible evidence
>that the membership, at the September 8, 2002 meeting, called a
>meeting for October 3, 2002 or at any time thereafter.
>
>I make these findings based on the statements from you and from other
>members, in particular, the following: (a) Your statements about
>dates and occurrences at meetings are grossly inconsistent; (b)
>Despite access to, and frequent postings to, these newsgroups, you
>did not inform me until November 12 or the newsgroups until December
>1 of the occurrence of these alleged votes; (c) You have not
>disclosed the members of the Committee allegedly elected.  All of
>this, among other things, leads me to conclude that your claims that
>at the lawful meeting of September 8, that any of the alleged votes
>listed above occurred, are untrue.  Likewise, I conclude that any
>other gathering thereafter was not a lawfully called meeting and any
>actions that occurred at such subsequent events are a nullity.
>
>You are ordered to cease and desist from using the name "New
>Brunswick People's Campaign" or any derivatives thereof (including
>nbpeoplescampaign or NBPC) for any purposes, with the exception of
>(a) making postings to the official newsgroup of the Campaign (i.e.
>this one) or to its unofficial newsgroup (i.e. nbpeoplescampaign), or
>(b) for the purpose of identifying yourself as a member thereof.
>
>You are specifically ordered not to publicly state any Campaign
>position on a candidate or an issue except to refer to the 2000
>Platform.  You are specifically ordered not to identify yourself as a
>member of the Campaign's Steering Commitee, or as a spokesperson
>therefor.  The Campaign reserves its right to seek any judicial
>remedies available to it under the law if you do not comply with this
>order, and reserves its rights to seek judicial remedies against you
>for past violations committed by you against the Campaign.
>
>If you object to any of this, I suggest you obtain attempt to obtain
>judicial relief from a court of competent jurisdiction.
>
>I want to thank the other members of the Campaign for bearing with us
>during this difficult period.  The efforts of Mr. Smith of the past
>few days - attempting a coup for all intents and purposes - have
>effectively been put down.  With this internal feud over, the leaders
>of the Campaign will continue now continue the work necessary for New
>Brunswick's progressives to succeed in the 2002 election.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>  > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering committee was
>  > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body called
>the next
>  > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused dates,
>but the
>  > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to the home
>news &
>  > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
>  >
>  > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this flavier? -joe
>  >
>  >
>  > >From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
>  > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  > >Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: flavio/tom recognize meeting,
>  > >terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>  > >Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:28:28 -0000
>  > >
>  > >Hold on... you said before that "Tamara's" proposal passed
>  > >unanimously, now it's "Cliff and Keith's proposal"?  Shame, shame,
>  > >Joe Smith!  You are getting your lies confused again!
>  > >
>  > >Also, in response to an earlier email, and just so there is no
>  > >confusion, neither I nor the Steering Committee recognize your
>  > >unilateral attempt to call a meeting for January 5, 2002.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>  > > > as of sept.8 the republican allied steering committee was
>abolished.
>  > > > the vote was based on cliff & keith's proposals which passed
>  > >unanimously.
>  > > >
>  > > > the meeting was attended by cliff, tamara, oscar, elionay,
>serenia,
>  > >carlos,
>  > > > kenny, jonathan, abundio, fransisco, zofia, luceno, waron, joe,
>  > >kevin,
>  > > > jennifer, diana.
>  > > >
>  > > > i don't see how you are going to be stuck on the fact that the
>  > >meeting
>  > > > didn't happen, when you knew it was happening. you set up a
>poll to
>  > >counter
>  > > > cliff's proposal for the meeting sept8. you responded to tamara
>  > >about why
>  > > > you would vote against her proposal for the meeting sept8.
>  > > >
>  > > > i told the targum that we were re-instated in august & that the
>  > >republican
>  > > > SC was abolished in october. i was at the library today before
>mike
>  > >reilly
>  > > > called me to check the information and i offered to fax it to
>him.
>  > >and you
>  > > > can have it too if you want to give me a fax#.
>  > > >
>  > > > it is not my duty to report to you flavio, but i will answer any
>  > >questions
>  > > > you might have...jackass.
>  > > >
>  > > > -joe
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
>  > > >
>  > > > >You stated the abolition of SC occurred in October.  You told
>the
>  > > > >Targum it was in August.  Now you sayt it took place in
>September.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >Can you explain why you waited until November 12 to tell me,
>and
>  > > > >November 30 to tell the press, of this alleged vote?  Could it
>be
>  > > > >because IT OCCURRED ONLY IN YOUR MIND?
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
>  > >wrote:
>  > > > > > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering
>committee
>  > >was
>  > > > > > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body
>  > >called
>  > > > >the next
>  > > > > > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused
>dates,
>  > > > >but the
>  > > > > > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to
>the
>  > >home
>  > > > >news &
>  > > > > > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this
>flavier? -joe
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
>  > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>  > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: flavio recognizes meeting
>  > > > > > >Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:35:59 -0000
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >Joe Smith has now taken to writing fiction!
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >I have always recognized the September 8 meeting.  I don't
>  > > > >recognize
>  > > > > > >the October 3 event, where, according to Joe, the following
>  > > > >happened
>  > > > > > >(this is per an email he sent me on November 15).
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >>>
>  > > > > > >on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign
>  > >general
>  > > > > > >membership
>  > > > > > >made the official decision that the republican agenda & the
>  > >peoples
>  > > > > > >campaign
>  > > > > > >agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank
>bright,
>  > >curtis
>  > > > > > >warren,
>  > > > > > >tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership &
>egroups.
>  > >you
>  > > > >can
>  > > > > > >check
>  > > > > > >with tamara dahan tamaradahan@h... or cliff smith
>  > > > > > >cliffsmith69@h...
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >joe
>  > > > > > > >>>
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >Here's my question: where in Tamara's proposal is there
>  > >anything
>  > > > > > >about putting Joe on the Steering Commitee or expelling the
>  > > > > > >Republicans????
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
><can_bush@h...>
>  > > > >wrote:
>  > > > > > > > (tamara's proposal passed unanimously)
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y...
>wrote:
>  > > > > > > > >Tamara,
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >I want to first thank you for posting here what I
>think is
>  > >the
>  > > > >only
>  > > > > > > > >recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As
>you
>  > >can
>  > > > >see,
>  > > > > > > > >this board has unfortunately been hijacked by
>squabblers
>  > >from
>  > > > >every
>  > > > > > > > >progressive group under the sun who are using it for
>their
>  > > > > > >bickering.
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your
>  > >proposal.
>  > > > >At
>  > > > > > >the
>  > > > > > > > >June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to
>clearly
>  > > > >state
>  > > > > > >the
>  > > > > > > > >issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction,
>in
>  > >two
>  > > > >short
>  > > > > > > > >and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution
>  > >stating
>  > > > >that
>  > > > > > > > >the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-
>  > >month
>  > > > > > >window,
>  > > > > > > > >were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and
>  > > > >Accountability
>  > > > > > > > >Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2)
>  > >winning
>  > > > >the
>  > > > > > > > >mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership
>also
>  > > > >voted at
>  > > > > > > > >that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it
>would
>  > >help
>  > > > > > > > >further these goals.
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of
>Schundler
>  > >into
>  > > > >the
>  > > > > > > > >NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-
>  > >focused
>  > > > >goals,
>  > > > > > > > >spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more
>  > >appropriate
>  > > > >for
>  > > > > > > > >this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find
>it
>  > > > > > > > >unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign
>every
>  > > > >couple
>  > > > > > >of
>  > > > > > > > >months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has
>already
>  > > > >resolved
>  > > > > > > > >to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and
>  > > > > > >Accountability
>  > > > > > > > >Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore,
>for
>  > >this
>  > > > > > > > >additional reason - the superfluousness of the
>proposal, I
>  > > > >would
>  > > > > > >vote
>  > > > > > > > >it down.
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan"
>  > > > ><tamaradahan@h...>
>  > > > > > > > >wrote:
>  > > > > > > > > > Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > > The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming
>  > >election
>  > > > >and
>  > > > > > > > >Smashing Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the
>Women's
>  > > > >Caucus
>  > > > > > >of the
>  > > > > > > > >NBPC should organize and unite with all other women's
>  > > > > > >organizations and
>  > > > > > > > >head the efforts to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has
>already
>  > >been
>  > > > >in
>  > > > > > >contact
>  > > > > > > > >with Planned Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW
>and
>  > > > > > >McGreevey's
>  > > > > > > > >campaign to >schedule a NB event in October in
>defense of
>  > > > >women,
>  > > > > > >public
>  > > > > > > > >education, and unions and to demand voting and working
>  > >rights
>  > > > >for
>  > > > > > >all. At
>  > > > > > > > >least one child care center in NB has fired it's
>  > >undocumented
>  > > > > > >women
>  > > > > > > > >teachers because these private daycares are now
>contracted
>  > >out
>  > > > >by
>  > > > > > >the
>  > > > > > > > >state. This displacement of latina community members
>in an
>  > > > >attack
>  > > > > > >on public
>  > > > > > > > >education has to be organized around and McGreevey be
>  > >forced to
>  > > > > > >take a
>  > > > > > > > >position on it.
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > > Smash Schundler!
>  > > > > > > > > > Women's Victory 2001!
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > > > Tamara Dahan
>  > > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > >
>  > > >
>  >_________________________________________________________________
>  > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>  > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >
>  > >_________________________________________________________________
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>  > > >
>  > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
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>  > >
>  >
>  >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2402
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-07 20:09:49
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: U.S. Appeals Court Hears Debate on Race-Based Admissions
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


BEAT BACK BUSH!!!
Michigan has the #1 most segregated public school system in the nation. Not to be outdone, NJ is #4 and closing fast.

*** this message made possible by the new brunswick peoples campaign 2002. unite the many, defeat the few! ***

can_bush@...

/-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\


Special Offer to NY Times customers:
Get FREE shipping on orders of $75 or more at Starbucks.com
http://www.starbucks.com/shop/category.asp?catalogFname=Starbucks&categoryFname=Gifts&ci=325

\----------------------------------------------------------/


U.S. Appeals Court Hears Debate on Race-Based Admissions

December 7, 2001 

By JACQUES STEINBERG


A federal appeals court in Cincinnati heard arguments on the
race-conscious admission policy at the University of
Michigan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/07/education/07AFFI.html?ex=1008773789&ei=1&en=fb933248faaa9d94



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2403
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-08 02:31:23
Subject:Re: Final conclusions...
Message:

Joe- you need to take a breath.  I asked Flavio specific questions 
publically & he sends me private responses for reasons that are beyond me.  
If you want to know what he wrote, just ask.  Btw- I spoke with Keith about 
this issue many times and heard his perspective.  He happens to concur with 
your recollection of the meetings & SC "transition"... why don't you call 
him rather than insulting him and me in your frustration?  Incidentally,  
your jab at your/my parents when Howard from POP extended an olive branch of 
support to us was totally out of line, & not the least bit on point- Ironic, 
though, since it was your own brother & closest organizational & ideological 
partner, Cliff, whose advise led you to take 30 days community service & a 
year's probation instead of accepting a plea for a minor misdemeanor while 
he walked... have you given much thought to this over the past few days?  
That's 30 days--or 6 work weeks--that you won't be able to organize.  (Then 
for him to claim that "nobody is any better or worse off" for the risk of 
trial than taking the plea!...) hey- just trying to lend some perspective.

--it ain't me, babe.... MS



----Original Message Follows----
From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com, vivaohio@..., amirib@..., 
nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
Subject: Re: Final conclusions...
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 19:48:10 -0500

what's with this matt? for some reason people feel comfortable with this 
relationship to you, can u explain? is this your trend? -joe


>From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>


>Matt,
>
>I have responded to you privately.
>
>Flavio
>
>



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2404
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-08 14:28:19
Subject:Re: Final conclusions...
Message:



>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>

>Joe- you need to take a breath.  I asked Flavio specific questions 
>publically & he sends me private responses for reasons that are beyond me.  
>If you want to know what he wrote, just ask.

i question why he feels comfortable doing so.

>Btw- I spoke with Keith about this issue many times and heard his 
>perspective.  He happens to concur with your recollection of the meetings & 
>SC "transition"

no shit he concurs - where is his public statements? i've had 2 articles in 
the newspapers defacing me & the legitimacy of nbpc that could have been 
avoided if keith would address these issues.

>... why don't you call him rather than insulting him and me in your 
>frustration?

keith insults himself with these actions. why do you suppose he would want 
flavio & company to be able to carry this on. he has still SAID NOTHING TO 
ADDRESS THESE ISSUES. i am not frustrated with keith as i do not expect much 
from him, but truth be told he is an ass because of this.

>Incidentally,  your jab at your/my parents when Howard from POP extended an 
>olive branch of support to us was totally out of line, & not the least bit 
>on point-

fuck your/my parents. face up, they support bush.
any jab at the right is called for regardless of your sentimentalism.

>Ironic, though, since it was your own brother & closest organizational & 
>ideological partner, Cliff, whose advise led you to take 30 days community 
>service & a year's probation instead of accepting a plea for a minor 
>misdemeanor while he walked...

100% better than for me to plead guilty - which you did for no reason at 
all. even the papers recognized that there was no evidence offered against 
you.

>have you given much thought to this over the past few days?  That's 30 
>days--or 6 work weeks--that you won't be able to organize. (Then for him to 
>claim that "nobody is any better or worse off" for the risk of trial than 
>taking the plea!...) hey- just trying to lend some perspective.

i have already gotten much support over the guilty verdict.
how much support do you think the campaign would have gotten if i pled 
guilty?

>--it ain't me, babe.... MS

no shit.-joe



>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com, vivaohio@..., amirib@..., 
>nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: Final conclusions...
>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 19:48:10 -0500
>
>what's with this matt? for some reason people feel comfortable with this 
>relationship to you, can u explain? is this your trend? -joe
>
>
>>From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>
>
>
>>Matt,
>>
>>I have responded to you privately.
>>
>>Flavio
>>
>>
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2405
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-08 15:11:41
Subject:Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
Message:

the red collective is counter organizing the nbpc, U&S, sword, the 
anti-imperialist war effort... what's to wonder matt?

it's a good point:
 >btw, re-expelling SWORD will not bring you any closer to the people
 >of the city!!

but that is their motive. U&S must come out with an exposure of this 
opportunist, backwards organization.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>
>Flavio- This is an interesting loop of logic you've gotten yourself caught 
>up in, but in all your legalistic web you fail to get to the heart of the 
>matter--that is, the NBPC ceased being an effective oragnization of the 
>people the moment it was consumed by liberal,sectarian formalism at the 
>expense of it's original mission as a united front for peoples' democracy 
>(revolutionary democracy)... some examples of which being the expulsion of 
>SWORD & permittance of republicanism- there are others... btw, re-expelling 
>SWORD will not bring you any closer to the people of the city!!
>
>& seriously, it is a bit odd that you keep responding to me personally when 
>I raise questions on a public(members) list....I'm still wondering what the 
>real intentions of the RED Collective members of the old Steering Committee 
>are regarding the NBPC. & if they lay claim--which is better than 
>abandoning the project--then why their absence over the months? I only ask 
>you because you volunteered to be their spokesperson...... Matthew
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Komuves, Flavio" <>
>To: "Vivaohio@hotmail. com (E-mail)" <vivaohio@...>
>Subject: Response to email
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:23:29 -0500
>
>Matt,
>
>I issued the orders.  I have the authority to issue these orders by virtue
>of (a) the general authority I possess as the General Counsel to the entity
>to protect it against coups and unauthorized uses and dilution of its name
>and (b) the specific authorization to issue these orders granted to me by
>the Legal Committee of the Steering Committee.
>
>I cannot comment about when the full Steering Committee intends to next
>issue a statement to its members.
>
>
>
>--- In nbpcmembers@y <mailto:nbpcmembers@y> ..., "Matthew Smith" <
>vivaohio@h <mailto:vivaohio@h> ...> wrote:
>  > Flavio- Point of Clarification: who is issuing said orders?  You have
>stated
>  > to me in a personal (?) memorandum that the original SC members are in
>fact
>  > still in place.  When will the membership (?) hear from them, and learn
>  > their intentions from them, rather than through a spokesperson?  -Matt
>  >
>  >
>
>
>
>Above email is for intended recipient only and may be confidential and
>protected by attorney/client privilege.
>If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender 
>immediately.
>Unauthorized use or distribution is prohibited and may be unlawful.
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2406
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-08 17:26:30
Subject:Re: Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks to NBPC members
Message:

however you want it.
nbpc supports
ras baraka
saturdays 9:30


>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>

>Joe,
>The world I live in is not on the internet. You got your panties all up in 
>a bunch over a tempest in a teapot.
>I have a million better things to do then argue with you and Flavio. Lately 
>I have been to busy to even look at my e-mail. I plan to put in my two 
>cents then I plan to unsubscribe to the list; >it has little to do with 
>revolutionary practice.
>
>Keith
>ps. I do not understand how you can possibly think that calling people 
>names is a way to build alliances.



>
>>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>>To: keithjoseph99@..., vivaohio@...
>>CC: amirib@..., cliffsmith69@..., 
>>nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, njfo@egroups.com
>>Subject: Fwd: Re: Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks to 
>>NBPC members
>>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 20:01:48 -0500
>>
>>keith, when do you plan on addressing the world you live in?
>>their next move will probably put me in court with a liable case as well 
>>as the end of nbpc. your already a real ass for not saying anything this 
>>long, is this a game to you? -joe
>>
>>
>>>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>>>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>>>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>>>Subject: Re: [nbpcmembers] Final conclusions; cease and desist order; 
>>>thanks to NBPC members
>>>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 18:29:08
>>>
>>>Flavio- Point of Clarification: who is issuing said orders?  You have 
>>>stated to me in a personal (?) memorandum that the original SC members 
>>>are in fact still in place.  When will the membership (?) hear from them, 
>>>and learn their intentions from them, rather than through a spokesperson? 
>>>  -Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----Original Message Follows----
>>>From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>
>>>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>>>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>>>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks 
>>>to
>>>NBPC members
>>>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:29:45 -0000
>>>
>>>To Mr. Joe Smith and his agents and those acting in concert with him:
>>>
>>>Your request for a January 5 meeting is rejected.
>>>
>>>I will not debate you further in this regard.  I find no credible
>>>evidence to support your conclusions that at any lawfully called
>>>meeting, the existing Steering Committee was voted out and replaced.
>>>I find no credible evidence that there has been any expulsion of
>>>Republican Party members.  I find no credible evidence that New
>>>Brunswick People's Campaign ("NBPC") committed to pursuing the school
>>>board question in 2002 at this time.  I find no credible evidence
>>>that the membership, at the September 8, 2002 meeting, called a
>>>meeting for October 3, 2002 or at any time thereafter.
>>>
>>>I make these findings based on the statements from you and from other
>>>members, in particular, the following: (a) Your statements about
>>>dates and occurrences at meetings are grossly inconsistent; (b)
>>>Despite access to, and frequent postings to, these newsgroups, you
>>>did not inform me until November 12 or the newsgroups until December
>>>1 of the occurrence of these alleged votes; (c) You have not
>>>disclosed the members of the Committee allegedly elected.  All of
>>>this, among other things, leads me to conclude that your claims that
>>>at the lawful meeting of September 8, that any of the alleged votes
>>>listed above occurred, are untrue.  Likewise, I conclude that any
>>>other gathering thereafter was not a lawfully called meeting and any
>>>actions that occurred at such subsequent events are a nullity.
>>>
>>>You are ordered to cease and desist from using the name "New
>>>Brunswick People's Campaign" or any derivatives thereof (including
>>>nbpeoplescampaign or NBPC) for any purposes, with the exception of
>>>(a) making postings to the official newsgroup of the Campaign (i.e.
>>>this one) or to its unofficial newsgroup (i.e. nbpeoplescampaign), or
>>>(b) for the purpose of identifying yourself as a member thereof.
>>>
>>>You are specifically ordered not to publicly state any Campaign
>>>position on a candidate or an issue except to refer to the 2000
>>>Platform.  You are specifically ordered not to identify yourself as a
>>>member of the Campaign's Steering Commitee, or as a spokesperson
>>>therefor.  The Campaign reserves its right to seek any judicial
>>>remedies available to it under the law if you do not comply with this
>>>order, and reserves its rights to seek judicial remedies against you
>>>for past violations committed by you against the Campaign.
>>>
>>>If you object to any of this, I suggest you obtain attempt to obtain
>>>judicial relief from a court of competent jurisdiction.
>>>
>>>I want to thank the other members of the Campaign for bearing with us
>>>during this difficult period.  The efforts of Mr. Smith of the past
>>>few days - attempting a coup for all intents and purposes - have
>>>effectively been put down.  With this internal feud over, the leaders
>>>of the Campaign will continue now continue the work necessary for New
>>>Brunswick's progressives to succeed in the 2002 election.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>>>  > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering committee was
>>>  > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body called
>>>the next
>>>  > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused dates,
>>>but the
>>>  > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to the home
>>>news &
>>>  > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
>>>  >
>>>  > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this flavier? -joe
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > >From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
>>>  > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
>>>  > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
>>>  > >Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: flavio/tom recognize meeting,
>>>  > >terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>  > >Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:28:28 -0000
>>>  > >
>>>  > >Hold on... you said before that "Tamara's" proposal passed
>>>  > >unanimously, now it's "Cliff and Keith's proposal"?  Shame, shame,
>>>  > >Joe Smith!  You are getting your lies confused again!
>>>  > >
>>>  > >Also, in response to an earlier email, and just so there is no
>>>  > >confusion, neither I nor the Steering Committee recognize your
>>>  > >unilateral attempt to call a meeting for January 5, 2002.
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>>>  > > > as of sept.8 the republican allied steering committee was
>>>abolished.
>>>  > > > the vote was based on cliff & keith's proposals which passed
>>>  > >unanimously.
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > > the meeting was attended by cliff, tamara, oscar, elionay,
>>>serenia,
>>>  > >carlos,
>>>  > > > kenny, jonathan, abundio, fransisco, zofia, luceno, waron, joe,
>>>  > >kevin,
>>>  > > > jennifer, diana.
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > > i don't see how you are going to be stuck on the fact that the
>>>  > >meeting
>>>  > > > didn't happen, when you knew it was happening. you set up a
>>>poll to
>>>  > >counter
>>>  > > > cliff's proposal for the meeting sept8. you responded to tamara
>>>  > >about why
>>>  > > > you would vote against her proposal for the meeting sept8.
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > > i told the targum that we were re-instated in august & that the
>>>  > >republican
>>>  > > > SC was abolished in october. i was at the library today before
>>>mike
>>>  > >reilly
>>>  > > > called me to check the information and i offered to fax it to
>>>him.
>>>  > >and you
>>>  > > > can have it too if you want to give me a fax#.
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > > it is not my duty to report to you flavio, but i will answer any
>>>  > >questions
>>>  > > > you might have...jackass.
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > > -joe
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > > >You stated the abolition of SC occurred in October.  You told
>>>the
>>>  > > > >Targum it was in August.  Now you sayt it took place in
>>>September.
>>>  > > > >
>>>  > > > >Can you explain why you waited until November 12 to tell me,
>>>and
>>>  > > > >November 30 to tell the press, of this alleged vote?  Could it
>>>be
>>>  > > > >because IT OCCURRED ONLY IN YOUR MIND?
>>>  > > > >
>>>  > > > >
>>>  > > > >
>>>  > > > >
>>>  > > > >
>>>  > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
>>>  > >wrote:
>>>  > > > > > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering
>>>committee
>>>  > >was
>>>  > > > > > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body
>>>  > >called
>>>  > > > >the next
>>>  > > > > > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused
>>>dates,
>>>  > > > >but the
>>>  > > > > > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to
>>>the
>>>  > >home
>>>  > > > >news &
>>>  > > > > > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
>>>  > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this
>>>flavier? -joe
>>>  > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
>>>  > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>>>  > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>>>  > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: flavio recognizes meeting
>>>  > > > > > >Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:35:59 -0000
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >Joe Smith has now taken to writing fiction!
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >I have always recognized the September 8 meeting.  I don't
>>>  > > > >recognize
>>>  > > > > > >the October 3 event, where, according to Joe, the following
>>>  > > > >happened
>>>  > > > > > >(this is per an email he sent me on November 15).
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > >>>
>>>  > > > > > >on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign
>>>  > >general
>>>  > > > > > >membership
>>>  > > > > > >made the official decision that the republican agenda & the
>>>  > >peoples
>>>  > > > > > >campaign
>>>  > > > > > >agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank
>>>bright,
>>>  > >curtis
>>>  > > > > > >warren,
>>>  > > > > > >tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership &
>>>egroups.
>>>  > >you
>>>  > > > >can
>>>  > > > > > >check
>>>  > > > > > >with tamara dahan tamaradahan@h... or cliff smith
>>>  > > > > > >cliffsmith69@h...
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >joe
>>>  > > > > > > >>>
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >Here's my question: where in Tamara's proposal is there
>>>  > >anything
>>>  > > > > > >about putting Joe on the Steering Commitee or expelling the
>>>  > > > > > >Republicans????
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
>>><can_bush@h...>
>>>  > > > >wrote:
>>>  > > > > > > > (tamara's proposal passed unanimously)
>>>  > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y...
>>>wrote:
>>>  > > > > > > > >Tamara,
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >I want to first thank you for posting here what I
>>>think is
>>>  > >the
>>>  > > > >only
>>>  > > > > > > > >recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As
>>>you
>>>  > >can
>>>  > > > >see,
>>>  > > > > > > > >this board has unfortunately been hijacked by
>>>squabblers
>>>  > >from
>>>  > > > >every
>>>  > > > > > > > >progressive group under the sun who are using it for
>>>their
>>>  > > > > > >bickering.
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your
>>>  > >proposal.
>>>  > > > >At
>>>  > > > > > >the
>>>  > > > > > > > >June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to
>>>clearly
>>>  > > > >state
>>>  > > > > > >the
>>>  > > > > > > > >issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction,
>>>in
>>>  > >two
>>>  > > > >short
>>>  > > > > > > > >and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution
>>>  > >stating
>>>  > > > >that
>>>  > > > > > > > >the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-
>>>  > >month
>>>  > > > > > >window,
>>>  > > > > > > > >were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and
>>>  > > > >Accountability
>>>  > > > > > > > >Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2)
>>>  > >winning
>>>  > > > >the
>>>  > > > > > > > >mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership
>>>also
>>>  > > > >voted at
>>>  > > > > > > > >that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it
>>>would
>>>  > >help
>>>  > > > > > > > >further these goals.
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of
>>>Schundler
>>>  > >into
>>>  > > > >the
>>>  > > > > > > > >NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-
>>>  > >focused
>>>  > > > >goals,
>>>  > > > > > > > >spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more
>>>  > >appropriate
>>>  > > > >for
>>>  > > > > > > > >this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find
>>>it
>>>  > > > > > > > >unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign
>>>every
>>>  > > > >couple
>>>  > > > > > >of
>>>  > > > > > > > >months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has
>>>already
>>>  > > > >resolved
>>>  > > > > > > > >to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and
>>>  > > > > > >Accountability
>>>  > > > > > > > >Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore,
>>>for
>>>  > >this
>>>  > > > > > > > >additional reason - the superfluousness of the
>>>proposal, I
>>>  > > > >would
>>>  > > > > > >vote
>>>  > > > > > > > >it down.
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan"
>>>  > > > ><tamaradahan@h...>
>>>  > > > > > > > >wrote:
>>>  > > > > > > > > > Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
>>>  > > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > > > The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming
>>>  > >election
>>>  > > > >and
>>>  > > > > > > > >Smashing Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the
>>>Women's
>>>  > > > >Caucus
>>>  > > > > > >of the
>>>  > > > > > > > >NBPC should organize and unite with all other women's
>>>  > > > > > >organizations and
>>>  > > > > > > > >head the efforts to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has
>>>already
>>>  > >been
>>>  > > > >in
>>>  > > > > > >contact
>>>  > > > > > > > >with Planned Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW
>>>and
>>>  > > > > > >McGreevey's
>>>  > > > > > > > >campaign to >schedule a NB event in October in
>>>defense of
>>>  > > > >women,
>>>  > > > > > >public
>>>  > > > > > > > >education, and unions and to demand voting and working
>>>  > >rights
>>>  > > > >for
>>>  > > > > > >all. At
>>>  > > > > > > > >least one child care center in NB has fired it's
>>>  > >undocumented
>>>  > > > > > >women
>>>  > > > > > > > >teachers because these private daycares are now
>>>contracted
>>>  > >out
>>>  > > > >by
>>>  > > > > > >the
>>>  > > > > > > > >state. This displacement of latina community members
>>>in an
>>>  > > > >attack
>>>  > > > > > >on public
>>>  > > > > > > > >education has to be organized around and McGreevey be
>>>  > >forced to
>>>  > > > > > >take a
>>>  > > > > > > > >position on it.
>>>  > > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > > > Smash Schundler!
>>>  > > > > > > > > > Women's Victory 2001!
>>>  > > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > > > Tamara Dahan
>>>  > > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  >_________________________________________________________________
>>>  > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>>>  > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
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>>>  > > > > >
>>>  > > > > >
>>>  > > > > >
>>>  > >_________________________________________________________________
>>>  > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>>>  > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>>  > > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>  > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>>>  > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > _________________________________________________________________
>>>  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>>>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>>nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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>>>
>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2407
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-08 18:02:15
Subject:Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: Final conclusions...
Message:

Joe- I'm not going to get into a major debate with you over this court 
issue- you made your own decisions & I told you at the time that I would 
respect what you decide--even though my advise was to take the final plea.  
But you're deluding yourself about the outcome, and what taking a plea would 
have implied about your integrity as an organizer, or how it would have 
affected peoples' perception of you.  It's a mistake that's crippled you for 
30 days & 1 year, at the advise of Cliff.

But you're right about one thing- when I read the SL article, & realized 
that the cop was a no-show, I was kicking myself for not pleading innocent.  
(I guess it was beyond Santos to raise it)



>Ironic, though, since it was your own brother & closest organizational &
>ideological partner, Cliff, whose advise led you to take 30 days community
>service & a year's probation instead of accepting a plea for a minor
>misdemeanor while he walked...

100% better than for me to plead guilty - which you did for no reason at
all. even the papers recognized that there was no evidence offered against
you.

>have you given much thought to this over the past few days?  That's 30
>days--or 6 work weeks--that you won't be able to organize. (Then for him to
>claim that "nobody is any better or worse off" for the risk of trial than
>taking the plea!...) hey- just trying to lend some perspective.

i have already gotten much support over the guilty verdict.
how much support do you think the campaign would have gotten if i pled
guilty?

>--it ain't me, babe.... MS

no shit.-joe



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2408
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-08 20:49:31
Subject:press release
Message:

just write a press statement & contact
mikesr@... - mike reilly targum 1731.932.7051
& swaters@... - sharon waters 1732.246.5500 ext3

it is not flavio i want you to address!
it is the people!
we can produce minutes

i don't want to argue with flavio either.
we have too much work to do.

register newark to vote!
nbpc supports
ras baraka
saturdays 9:30
808 s. 10 street





>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
>To: can_bush@...
>Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks to 
>NBPC members
>Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 21:25:21 +0000
>
>Joe,
>The world I live in is not on the internet. You got your panties all up in 
>a bunch over a tempest in a teapot. I have a million better things to do 
>then argue with you and Flavio. Lately I have been to busy to even look at 
>my e-mail. I plan to put in my two cents then I plan to unsubscribe to the 
>list; it has little to do with revolutionary practice.
>Keith
>ps. I do not understand how you can possibly think that calling people 
>names is a way to build alliances.
>
>
>>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>>To: keithjoseph99@..., vivaohio@...
>>CC: amirib@..., cliffsmith69@..., 
>>nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, njfo@egroups.com
>>Subject: Fwd: Re: Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks to 
>>NBPC members
>>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 20:01:48 -0500
>>
>>keith, when do you plan on addressing the world you live in?
>>their next move will probably put me in court with a liable case as well 
>>as the end of nbpc. your already a real ass for not saying anything this 
>>long, is this a game to you? -joe
>>
>>
>>>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>>>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>>>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>>>Subject: Re: [nbpcmembers] Final conclusions; cease and desist order; 
>>>thanks to NBPC members
>>>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 18:29:08
>>>
>>>Flavio- Point of Clarification: who is issuing said orders?  You have 
>>>stated to me in a personal (?) memorandum that the original SC members 
>>>are in fact still in place.  When will the membership (?) hear from them, 
>>>and learn their intentions from them, rather than through a spokesperson? 
>>>  -Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----Original Message Follows----
>>>From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>
>>>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>>>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>>>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks 
>>>to
>>>NBPC members
>>>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:29:45 -0000
>>>
>>>To Mr. Joe Smith and his agents and those acting in concert with him:
>>>
>>>Your request for a January 5 meeting is rejected.
>>>
>>>I will not debate you further in this regard.  I find no credible
>>>evidence to support your conclusions that at any lawfully called
>>>meeting, the existing Steering Committee was voted out and replaced.
>>>I find no credible evidence that there has been any expulsion of
>>>Republican Party members.  I find no credible evidence that New
>>>Brunswick People's Campaign ("NBPC") committed to pursuing the school
>>>board question in 2002 at this time.  I find no credible evidence
>>>that the membership, at the September 8, 2002 meeting, called a
>>>meeting for October 3, 2002 or at any time thereafter.
>>>
>>>I make these findings based on the statements from you and from other
>>>members, in particular, the following: (a) Your statements about
>>>dates and occurrences at meetings are grossly inconsistent; (b)
>>>Despite access to, and frequent postings to, these newsgroups, you
>>>did not inform me until November 12 or the newsgroups until December
>>>1 of the occurrence of these alleged votes; (c) You have not
>>>disclosed the members of the Committee allegedly elected.  All of
>>>this, among other things, leads me to conclude that your claims that
>>>at the lawful meeting of September 8, that any of the alleged votes
>>>listed above occurred, are untrue.  Likewise, I conclude that any
>>>other gathering thereafter was not a lawfully called meeting and any
>>>actions that occurred at such subsequent events are a nullity.
>>>
>>>You are ordered to cease and desist from using the name "New
>>>Brunswick People's Campaign" or any derivatives thereof (including
>>>nbpeoplescampaign or NBPC) for any purposes, with the exception of
>>>(a) making postings to the official newsgroup of the Campaign (i.e.
>>>this one) or to its unofficial newsgroup (i.e. nbpeoplescampaign), or
>>>(b) for the purpose of identifying yourself as a member thereof.
>>>
>>>You are specifically ordered not to publicly state any Campaign
>>>position on a candidate or an issue except to refer to the 2000
>>>Platform.  You are specifically ordered not to identify yourself as a
>>>member of the Campaign's Steering Commitee, or as a spokesperson
>>>therefor.  The Campaign reserves its right to seek any judicial
>>>remedies available to it under the law if you do not comply with this
>>>order, and reserves its rights to seek judicial remedies against you
>>>for past violations committed by you against the Campaign.
>>>
>>>If you object to any of this, I suggest you obtain attempt to obtain
>>>judicial relief from a court of competent jurisdiction.
>>>
>>>I want to thank the other members of the Campaign for bearing with us
>>>during this difficult period.  The efforts of Mr. Smith of the past
>>>few days - attempting a coup for all intents and purposes - have
>>>effectively been put down.  With this internal feud over, the leaders
>>>of the Campaign will continue now continue the work necessary for New
>>>Brunswick's progressives to succeed in the 2002 election.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>>>  > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering committee was
>>>  > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body called
>>>the next
>>>  > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused dates,
>>>but the
>>>  > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to the home
>>>news &
>>>  > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
>>>  >
>>>  > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this flavier? -joe
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > >From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
>>>  > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
>>>  > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
>>>  > >Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: flavio/tom recognize meeting,
>>>  > >terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>  > >Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:28:28 -0000
>>>  > >
>>>  > >Hold on... you said before that "Tamara's" proposal passed
>>>  > >unanimously, now it's "Cliff and Keith's proposal"?  Shame, shame,
>>>  > >Joe Smith!  You are getting your lies confused again!
>>>  > >
>>>  > >Also, in response to an earlier email, and just so there is no
>>>  > >confusion, neither I nor the Steering Committee recognize your
>>>  > >unilateral attempt to call a meeting for January 5, 2002.
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
>>>  > > > as of sept.8 the republican allied steering committee was
>>>abolished.
>>>  > > > the vote was based on cliff & keith's proposals which passed
>>>  > >unanimously.
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > > the meeting was attended by cliff, tamara, oscar, elionay,
>>>serenia,
>>>  > >carlos,
>>>  > > > kenny, jonathan, abundio, fransisco, zofia, luceno, waron, joe,
>>>  > >kevin,
>>>  > > > jennifer, diana.
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > > i don't see how you are going to be stuck on the fact that the
>>>  > >meeting
>>>  > > > didn't happen, when you knew it was happening. you set up a
>>>poll to
>>>  > >counter
>>>  > > > cliff's proposal for the meeting sept8. you responded to tamara
>>>  > >about why
>>>  > > > you would vote against her proposal for the meeting sept8.
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > > i told the targum that we were re-instated in august & that the
>>>  > >republican
>>>  > > > SC was abolished in october. i was at the library today before
>>>mike
>>>  > >reilly
>>>  > > > called me to check the information and i offered to fax it to
>>>him.
>>>  > >and you
>>>  > > > can have it too if you want to give me a fax#.
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > > it is not my duty to report to you flavio, but i will answer any
>>>  > >questions
>>>  > > > you might have...jackass.
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > > -joe
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > > >You stated the abolition of SC occurred in October.  You told
>>>the
>>>  > > > >Targum it was in August.  Now you sayt it took place in
>>>September.
>>>  > > > >
>>>  > > > >Can you explain why you waited until November 12 to tell me,
>>>and
>>>  > > > >November 30 to tell the press, of this alleged vote?  Could it
>>>be
>>>  > > > >because IT OCCURRED ONLY IN YOUR MIND?
>>>  > > > >
>>>  > > > >
>>>  > > > >
>>>  > > > >
>>>  > > > >
>>>  > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
>>>  > >wrote:
>>>  > > > > > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering
>>>committee
>>>  > >was
>>>  > > > > > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body
>>>  > >called
>>>  > > > >the next
>>>  > > > > > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused
>>>dates,
>>>  > > > >but the
>>>  > > > > > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to
>>>the
>>>  > >home
>>>  > > > >news &
>>>  > > > > > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
>>>  > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this
>>>flavier? -joe
>>>  > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
>>>  > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>>>  > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
>>>  > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: flavio recognizes meeting
>>>  > > > > > >Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:35:59 -0000
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >Joe Smith has now taken to writing fiction!
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >I have always recognized the September 8 meeting.  I don't
>>>  > > > >recognize
>>>  > > > > > >the October 3 event, where, according to Joe, the following
>>>  > > > >happened
>>>  > > > > > >(this is per an email he sent me on November 15).
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > >>>
>>>  > > > > > >on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign
>>>  > >general
>>>  > > > > > >membership
>>>  > > > > > >made the official decision that the republican agenda & the
>>>  > >peoples
>>>  > > > > > >campaign
>>>  > > > > > >agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank
>>>bright,
>>>  > >curtis
>>>  > > > > > >warren,
>>>  > > > > > >tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership &
>>>egroups.
>>>  > >you
>>>  > > > >can
>>>  > > > > > >check
>>>  > > > > > >with tamara dahan tamaradahan@h... or cliff smith
>>>  > > > > > >cliffsmith69@h...
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >joe
>>>  > > > > > > >>>
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >Here's my question: where in Tamara's proposal is there
>>>  > >anything
>>>  > > > > > >about putting Joe on the Steering Commitee or expelling the
>>>  > > > > > >Republicans????
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
>>><can_bush@h...>
>>>  > > > >wrote:
>>>  > > > > > > > (tamara's proposal passed unanimously)
>>>  > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y...
>>>wrote:
>>>  > > > > > > > >Tamara,
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >I want to first thank you for posting here what I
>>>think is
>>>  > >the
>>>  > > > >only
>>>  > > > > > > > >recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As
>>>you
>>>  > >can
>>>  > > > >see,
>>>  > > > > > > > >this board has unfortunately been hijacked by
>>>squabblers
>>>  > >from
>>>  > > > >every
>>>  > > > > > > > >progressive group under the sun who are using it for
>>>their
>>>  > > > > > >bickering.
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your
>>>  > >proposal.
>>>  > > > >At
>>>  > > > > > >the
>>>  > > > > > > > >June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to
>>>clearly
>>>  > > > >state
>>>  > > > > > >the
>>>  > > > > > > > >issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction,
>>>in
>>>  > >two
>>>  > > > >short
>>>  > > > > > > > >and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution
>>>  > >stating
>>>  > > > >that
>>>  > > > > > > > >the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-
>>>  > >month
>>>  > > > > > >window,
>>>  > > > > > > > >were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and
>>>  > > > >Accountability
>>>  > > > > > > > >Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2)
>>>  > >winning
>>>  > > > >the
>>>  > > > > > > > >mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership
>>>also
>>>  > > > >voted at
>>>  > > > > > > > >that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it
>>>would
>>>  > >help
>>>  > > > > > > > >further these goals.
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of
>>>Schundler
>>>  > >into
>>>  > > > >the
>>>  > > > > > > > >NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-
>>>  > >focused
>>>  > > > >goals,
>>>  > > > > > > > >spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more
>>>  > >appropriate
>>>  > > > >for
>>>  > > > > > > > >this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find
>>>it
>>>  > > > > > > > >unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign
>>>every
>>>  > > > >couple
>>>  > > > > > >of
>>>  > > > > > > > >months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has
>>>already
>>>  > > > >resolved
>>>  > > > > > > > >to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and
>>>  > > > > > >Accountability
>>>  > > > > > > > >Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore,
>>>for
>>>  > >this
>>>  > > > > > > > >additional reason - the superfluousness of the
>>>proposal, I
>>>  > > > >would
>>>  > > > > > >vote
>>>  > > > > > > > >it down.
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan"
>>>  > > > ><tamaradahan@h...>
>>>  > > > > > > > >wrote:
>>>  > > > > > > > > > Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
>>>  > > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > > > The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming
>>>  > >election
>>>  > > > >and
>>>  > > > > > > > >Smashing Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the
>>>Women's
>>>  > > > >Caucus
>>>  > > > > > >of the
>>>  > > > > > > > >NBPC should organize and unite with all other women's
>>>  > > > > > >organizations and
>>>  > > > > > > > >head the efforts to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has
>>>already
>>>  > >been
>>>  > > > >in
>>>  > > > > > >contact
>>>  > > > > > > > >with Planned Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW
>>>and
>>>  > > > > > >McGreevey's
>>>  > > > > > > > >campaign to >schedule a NB event in October in
>>>defense of
>>>  > > > >women,
>>>  > > > > > >public
>>>  > > > > > > > >education, and unions and to demand voting and working
>>>  > >rights
>>>  > > > >for
>>>  > > > > > >all. At
>>>  > > > > > > > >least one child care center in NB has fired it's
>>>  > >undocumented
>>>  > > > > > >women
>>>  > > > > > > > >teachers because these private daycares are now
>>>contracted
>>>  > >out
>>>  > > > >by
>>>  > > > > > >the
>>>  > > > > > > > >state. This displacement of latina community members
>>>in an
>>>  > > > >attack
>>>  > > > > > >on public
>>>  > > > > > > > >education has to be organized around and McGreevey be
>>>  > >forced to
>>>  > > > > > >take a
>>>  > > > > > > > >position on it.
>>>  > > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > > > Smash Schundler!
>>>  > > > > > > > > > Women's Victory 2001!
>>>  > > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > > > Tamara Dahan
>>>  > > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  >_________________________________________________________________
>>>  > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>>>  > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>>  > > > > > >
>>>  > > > > >
>>>  > > > > >
>>>  > > > > >
>>>  > >_________________________________________________________________
>>>  > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>>>  > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>>  > > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>  > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>>>  > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > _________________________________________________________________
>>>  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>>>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>>nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>>>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>>
>>>
>>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2409
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-08 21:58:37
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: Final conclusions...
Message:

dont guess-
yr the only one to endorse santos,
& the only one to plead guilty,
& the only one to receive a penalty w/o evidence or witness.

now, who made a mistake?

& you have no guarantee what the "final plea" wouldve resulted in.

we maintained our innocence and nb knows it.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com, 
>nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: Final conclusions...
>Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 23:02:15
>
>Joe- I'm not going to get into a major debate with you over this court
>issue- you made your own decisions & I told you at the time that I would
>respect what you decide--even though my advise was to take the final plea.
>But you're deluding yourself about the outcome, and what taking a plea 
>would
>have implied about your integrity as an organizer, or how it would have
>affected peoples' perception of you.  It's a mistake that's crippled you 
>for
>30 days & 1 year, at the advise of Cliff.
>
>But you're right about one thing- when I read the SL article, & realized
>that the cop was a no-show, I was kicking myself for not pleading innocent.
>(I guess it was beyond Santos to raise it)
>
>
>
> >Ironic, though, since it was your own brother & closest organizational &
> >ideological partner, Cliff, whose advise led you to take 30 days 
>community
> >service & a year's probation instead of accepting a plea for a minor
> >misdemeanor while he walked...
>
>100% better than for me to plead guilty - which you did for no reason at
>all. even the papers recognized that there was no evidence offered against
>you.
>
> >have you given much thought to this over the past few days?  That's 30
> >days--or 6 work weeks--that you won't be able to organize. (Then for him 
>to
> >claim that "nobody is any better or worse off" for the risk of trial than
> >taking the plea!...) hey- just trying to lend some perspective.
>
>i have already gotten much support over the guilty verdict.
>how much support do you think the campaign would have gotten if i pled
>guilty?
>
> >--it ain't me, babe.... MS
>
>no shit.-joe
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2410
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-09 11:59:34
Subject:Home News Editorial
Message:


               Sunday's Home News Tribune editorials

               Published in the Home News Tribune 12/09/01

               An American dream killed by American hate


    A Home News Tribune editorialWhen Waqar Hasan's life ended in a pool of 
blood on the floor of his small grocery in a struggling Dallas neighborhood 
Sept. 15, the motive seemed clear.

    Hasan, a Pakistani immigrant who had left his wife and daughters in 
Milltown in search of a better life in Texas, was the victim of hate -- hate 
that boiled up around Arab-Americans in the days immediately following Sept. 
11. Hasan's murder became one of three high-profile killings described as 
ethnically motivated. His case was one of 40 the Justice Department began 
investigating as a hate crime.

    It was to the threat of those crimes administrators referred when they 
issued statements calling for calm. "Any act of violence or discrimination 
against a person based on the perceived race, religion or national origin is 
contrary to our fundamental principles and the laws of the United States," 
Assistant Attorney General Ralph F. Boyd Jr. said in a statement Sept. 13, 
adding that violators would be prosecuted. Two weeks later he repeated the 
assertions, adding, "We can not scapegoat certain members of our society 
because of the actions of a few.".

     Three months in, nothing is as clear. There has been no arrest in the 
case, and there seem to be conflicting opinions among investigators about 
whether a white supremacist sympathizer arrested for two other similar 
crimes is also guilty of this one. With little to go on, investigators are 
at a stand-still. And Hasan's grisly death, like the suspected hate crimes 
generally, has quickly faded from view. For all its rhetoric, the Justice 
Department has yet to issue any news release detailing the arrest of a 
person accused of a hate crime against an Arab-American. Hasan's murder is 
now largely in the hands of local detectives.

               All of this may be understandable, given the crushing 
workload that now occupies federal investigators. And maybe it seems less 
important since the crimes themselves seem to have dissipated. A Pew poll of 
1,500 adults in mid-November found that Americans' opinions of Muslims 
actually improved after the attacks.

               But that is not the way it looks to the Council on American 
Islamic Relations. They have taken 1,452 complaints of discrimination since 
Sept. 11. Usually they record between 400 and 600 annually. Not all of those 
are accounts of physical abuse -- the reports cover everything from verbal 
threats to employment discrimination -- but Hodan Hassan, a civil rights 
coordinator with the council, says though the severity of the discrimination 
has lessened, the number of complaints has not. The council is also 
beginning to hear from relatives of Muslims jailed or questioned by the 
government in the wake of the attacks. Those reports are part of a growing 
alarm. The same government that sought to protect them in those first 
anxious days -- the government that said their could be no scapegoating -- 
now announces new anti-terror initiatives aimed directly at the Muslim 
community.

               In addition to the political implications of the murder and 
its investigation, there is -- as we have seen again and again in
accounts of those killed Sept. 11 -- the unbearable and ironic personal 
tragedy of Hasan's death. Like millions of immigrants before him he had come 
to the United States in search of security and stability. He was a 
practicing Muslim, but he does not seem to have been political. He came from 
a family of merchants; and he wanted to own his own business. His desire, 
and his relatively meager savings, led him, as it has so many other 
Middle-Eastern and Souther Asian immigrants, to least desireable
businesses in the least desireable neighborhoods.

               And that is a dangerous path. The Dallas Morning News has 
reported that during two years in the mid-'90s, more than 20
convenience store owners or workers in the city were murdered on the job. 
One of the first things Hasan and his partner did after buying their 
business was install a plastic-glass shield around the cash register. But 
Hasan, a gregarious sort, seldom stayed behind it. And on Sept. 15 -- as all 
of America focused on newfound foreign threat -- Waqar Hasan's dreams ended 
-- one way or another -- in an all-too-familiar American scenario.

               from the Home News Tribune

               Published: December 9, 2001

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Post ID:2411
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-09 12:11:53
Subject:racist lawrence on way out
Message:

Lawrence leadership may be near end

               Published in the Home News Tribune 12/09/01

               By SARAH GREENBLATT
               STAFF WRITER

               RUTGERS UNIVERSITY: With a new governor poised to take power 
in Trenton, many observers at Rutgers University are wondering if changes at 
the Statehouse will extend to Old Queens.

               Since Jim McGreevey won last month's election, and the 
aftermath of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks widened holes in the state 
budget, speculation has grown about the future of Francis L. Lawrence as 
president of Rutgers.

               Now in his 11th year at Rutgers, Lawrence, 63, is one of the 
longest-serving university presidents in the country, surviving criticism 
from many quarters while garnering a reputation for increasing fund-raising 
and research activities during his tenure.

               After enduring a hail of protests in 1995 for a comment in 
which he linked low SAT scores of disadvantaged students to their "genetic, 
hereditary background," Lawrence has been criticized by many faculty members 
who claim he lacks the vision and talent to lead Rutgers.

               Lawrence has maintained the support of the board of governors 
-- which controls hiring decisions at Old Queens -- by displaying canny 
skills as a manager and fund-raiser.

               But there are signs that he may face new adversity from 
Trenton in the coming months.

               McGreevey has directed a higher-education task force within 
his transition team to take a close look at Rutgers.

               "The transition effort will thoroughly undertake an 
assessment of the state's higher educational system in general and Rutgers 
University in particular," McGreevey said in an interview last week.

               While refusing to comment on Lawrence's performance, 
McGreevey said he is concerned about "the importance of strong leadership, 
able leadership for Rutgers University" as "New Jersey moves to the new 
information economy."

               McGreevey said he will rely on recommendations of the task 
force, comprising former Gov. Tom Kean, who is now president of Drew 
University; Susan Cole, president of Montclair State University; Assembly 
Minority Leader Joe Doria, D-Hudson, and the Rev. William Howard, pastor of 
Bethany Baptist Church in Newark.

               Rutgers has been a focus of McGreevey's attention since at 
least January, when, as a candidate, he discussed the university's 
relationship with the Statehouse at an off-campus meeting with some 70 
faculty members. The gathering was organized by Richard Foley, former dean 
of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences in New Brunswick and a popular campus 
leader, and Benjamin Barber, a political-science professor who recently left 
Rutgers.

               Two board members voiced strong support for Lawrence last 
week, but one of them said the state's political and economic prospects are 
such that it may make sense for the president to leave.

               Lawrence has vastly increased Rutgers' fund-raising prowess 
and research activities and drawn a massive increase in undergraduate 
applications -- all measures of a successful presidency, board Chairman Gene 
O'Hara said.

               In its most recent annual evaluation of Lawrence in July, 
O'Hara said, the board concluded he has performed very well.

               "His energy is almost unmeasurable," O'Hara said.

               The board rewarded Lawrence with a 5.5-percent pay increase, 
bringing his state-supported annual salary to $287,000. Lawrence's salary 
this year includes an additional $75,000 in private contributions.

               While commending Lawrence for his management and fund-raising 
skills, board member David Harris said the swirl of political change and 
economic uncertainty has created "a propitious moment" for the president to 
leave Rutgers.

               "I would be the first to stand in line to praise what he has 
done," Harris said. "If I were in his shoes, this would be a logical time to 
do it -- without any shame, without any blame."

               Instead of facing a fiscal crisis like the $19.6 million 
shortfall in state-financed salary adjustments that greeted him in 1990, 
Harris said, Lawrence could be enjoying "his victory lap."

               Lawrence was not available Thursday or Friday to comment on 
his plans, said Pam Blake, Rutgers director of media relations and 
communications.

               In another hint of potential change at Rutgers, state Sen. 
Joseph Vitale, D-Middlesex, said he plans to introduce a bill to expand the 
board of governors membership. The measure would enable McGreevey to place 
more of his own appointees on the board.

               Vitale said such a step is warranted because Lawrence has 
declined to expand the enrollment of the nursing program, despite a growing 
shortage of nurses in the state.

               O'Hara said, however, that Rutgers' nursing program is 
focused more on educating researchers and nursing instructors than on 
churning out practitioners.

               Harris said elected officials should not tinker with the 
board or turn the university presidency into a political football.

               "Once we live by the partisan political sword, that's the day 
our standing as a great state university will be severely diminished," 
Harris said.

               Barry Qualls, an associate dean of the Faculty of Arts and 
Sciences-New Brunswick, echoed that concern.

               "We're not a state agency. It would be a big mistake for any 
governor or any legislator to say, 'I want this president,'" Qualls said. 
"That's what academic freedom is all about."

    Sarah Greenblatt: (732) 565-7205. E-mail sgreenbl@...

               from the Home News Tribune

               Published: December 9, 2001

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2412
Sender:"can_bush" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-09 12:25:08
Subject:Re: Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks to NBPC members
Message:

 "You got your panties all up in 
a bunch over a tempest in a teapot."  -kj

1st noting the male chauvanist slur (representative of u&s' "definite 
trend"), why does keith diminish the right-wing assault into central 
jersey, which he actively enabled?

flavio's 'RED(!)' friends announce to run a republican-allied slate for 
nb '02 elections, just as they did in '00.  the (keith-endorsed) 
republican nb party chair is now on the nb housing authority, and 
republican sec. of state soaries announces bid for u.s. congress from 
neighboring franklin park.  

this in the pharmaceutical center of the world. the same towns which 
postmarked sending anthrax to ranking u.s. democrats ('ask who 
benefits'!)

which party does j&j prefer? why does keith dodge the fight? (& in the 
name of "revolutionary practice"!) & speaking of which, where is u&s, 
the paper? where is the keith's "revolutionary practice" behind ras' 
council campaign?

guess he "has a million better things to do..."

cliff




--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> however you want it.
> nbpc supports
> ras baraka
> saturdays 9:30
> 
> 
> >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> 
> >Joe,
> >The world I live in is not on the internet. You got your panties all up in 
> >a bunch over a tempest in a teapot.
> >I have a million better things to do then argue with you and Flavio. Lately 
> >I have been to busy to even look at my e-mail. I plan to put in my two 
> >cents then I plan to unsubscribe to the list; >it has little to do with 
> >revolutionary practice.
> >
> >Keith
> >ps. I do not understand how you can possibly think that calling people 
> >names is a way to build alliances.
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> >>To: keithjoseph99@h..., vivaohio@h...
> >>CC: amirib@a..., cliffsmith69@h..., 
> >>nbpeoplescampaign@e..., njfo@e...
> >>Subject: Fwd: Re: Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks to 
> >>NBPC members
> >>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 20:01:48 -0500
> >>
> >>keith, when do you plan on addressing the world you live in?
> >>their next move will probably put me in court with a liable case as well 
> >>as the end of nbpc. your already a real ass for not saying anything this 
> >>long, is this a game to you? -joe
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
> >>>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >>>To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >>>Subject: Re: [nbpcmembers] Final conclusions; cease and desist order; 
> >>>thanks to NBPC members
> >>>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 18:29:08
> >>>
> >>>Flavio- Point of Clarification: who is issuing said orders?  You have 
> >>>stated to me in a personal (?) memorandum that the original SC members 
> >>>are in fact still in place.  When will the membership (?) hear from them, 
> >>>and learn their intentions from them, rather than through a spokesperson? 
> >>>  -Matt
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>----Original Message Follows----
> >>>From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
> >>>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >>>To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >>>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Final conclusions; cease and desist order; thanks 
> >>>to
> >>>NBPC members
> >>>Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:29:45 -0000
> >>>
> >>>To Mr. Joe Smith and his agents and those acting in concert with him:
> >>>
> >>>Your request for a January 5 meeting is rejected.
> >>>
> >>>I will not debate you further in this regard.  I find no credible
> >>>evidence to support your conclusions that at any lawfully called
> >>>meeting, the existing Steering Committee was voted out and replaced.
> >>>I find no credible evidence that there has been any expulsion of
> >>>Republican Party members.  I find no credible evidence that New
> >>>Brunswick People's Campaign ("NBPC") committed to pursuing the school
> >>>board question in 2002 at this time.  I find no credible evidence
> >>>that the membership, at the September 8, 2002 meeting, called a
> >>>meeting for October 3, 2002 or at any time thereafter.
> >>>
> >>>I make these findings based on the statements from you and from other
> >>>members, in particular, the following: (a) Your statements about
> >>>dates and occurrences at meetings are grossly inconsistent; (b)
> >>>Despite access to, and frequent postings to, these newsgroups, you
> >>>did not inform me until November 12 or the newsgroups until December
> >>>1 of the occurrence of these alleged votes; (c) You have not
> >>>disclosed the members of the Committee allegedly elected.  All of
> >>>this, among other things, leads me to conclude that your claims that
> >>>at the lawful meeting of September 8, that any of the alleged votes
> >>>listed above occurred, are untrue.  Likewise, I conclude that any
> >>>other gathering thereafter was not a lawfully called meeting and any
> >>>actions that occurred at such subsequent events are a nullity.
> >>>
> >>>You are ordered to cease and desist from using the name "New
> >>>Brunswick People's Campaign" or any derivatives thereof (including
> >>>nbpeoplescampaign or NBPC) for any purposes, with the exception of
> >>>(a) making postings to the official newsgroup of the Campaign (i.e.
> >>>this one) or to its unofficial newsgroup (i.e. nbpeoplescampaign), or
> >>>(b) for the purpose of identifying yourself as a member thereof.
> >>>
> >>>You are specifically ordered not to publicly state any Campaign
> >>>position on a candidate or an issue except to refer to the 2000
> >>>Platform.  You are specifically ordered not to identify yourself as a
> >>>member of the Campaign's Steering Commitee, or as a spokesperson
> >>>therefor.  The Campaign reserves its right to seek any judicial
> >>>remedies available to it under the law if you do not comply with this
> >>>order, and reserves its rights to seek judicial remedies against you
> >>>for past violations committed by you against the Campaign.
> >>>
> >>>If you object to any of this, I suggest you obtain attempt to obtain
> >>>judicial relief from a court of competent jurisdiction.
> >>>
> >>>I want to thank the other members of the Campaign for bearing with us
> >>>during this difficult period.  The efforts of Mr. Smith of the past
> >>>few days - attempting a coup for all intents and purposes - have
> >>>effectively been put down.  With this internal feud over, the leaders
> >>>of the Campaign will continue now continue the work necessary for New
> >>>Brunswick's progressives to succeed in the 2002 election.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> >>>  > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering committee was
> >>>  > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body called
> >>>the next
> >>>  > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused dates,
> >>>but the
> >>>  > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to the home
> >>>news &
> >>>  > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
> >>>  >
> >>>  > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this flavier? -joe
> >>>  >
> >>>  >
> >>>  > >From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
> >>>  > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >>>  > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >>>  > >Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: flavio/tom recognize meeting,
> >>>  > >terrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >>>  > >Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:28:28 -0000
> >>>  > >
> >>>  > >Hold on... you said before that "Tamara's" proposal passed
> >>>  > >unanimously, now it's "Cliff and Keith's proposal"?  Shame, shame,
> >>>  > >Joe Smith!  You are getting your lies confused again!
> >>>  > >
> >>>  > >Also, in response to an earlier email, and just so there is no
> >>>  > >confusion, neither I nor the Steering Committee recognize your
> >>>  > >unilateral attempt to call a meeting for January 5, 2002.
> >>>  > >
> >>>  > >
> >>>  > >
> >>>  > >
> >>>  > >--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> >>>  > > > as of sept.8 the republican allied steering committee was
> >>>abolished.
> >>>  > > > the vote was based on cliff & keith's proposals which passed
> >>>  > >unanimously.
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  > > > the meeting was attended by cliff, tamara, oscar, elionay,
> >>>serenia,
> >>>  > >carlos,
> >>>  > > > kenny, jonathan, abundio, fransisco, zofia, luceno, waron, joe,
> >>>  > >kevin,
> >>>  > > > jennifer, diana.
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  > > > i don't see how you are going to be stuck on the fact that the
> >>>  > >meeting
> >>>  > > > didn't happen, when you knew it was happening. you set up a
> >>>poll to
> >>>  > >counter
> >>>  > > > cliff's proposal for the meeting sept8. you responded to tamara
> >>>  > >about why
> >>>  > > > you would vote against her proposal for the meeting sept8.
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  > > > i told the targum that we were re-instated in august & that the
> >>>  > >republican
> >>>  > > > SC was abolished in october. i was at the library today before
> >>>mike
> >>>  > >reilly
> >>>  > > > called me to check the information and i offered to fax it to
> >>>him.
> >>>  > >and you
> >>>  > > > can have it too if you want to give me a fax#.
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  > > > it is not my duty to report to you flavio, but i will answer any
> >>>  > >questions
> >>>  > > > you might have...jackass.
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  > > > -joe
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  > > > >You stated the abolition of SC occurred in October.  You told
> >>>the
> >>>  > > > >Targum it was in August.  Now you sayt it took place in
> >>>September.
> >>>  > > > >
> >>>  > > > >Can you explain why you waited until November 12 to tell me,
> >>>and
> >>>  > > > >November 30 to tell the press, of this alleged vote?  Could it
> >>>be
> >>>  > > > >because IT OCCURRED ONLY IN YOUR MIND?
> >>>  > > > >
> >>>  > > > >
> >>>  > > > >
> >>>  > > > >
> >>>  > > > >
> >>>  > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...>
> >>>  > >wrote:
> >>>  > > > > > at the meeting sept. 8 the republican allied steering
> >>>committee
> >>>  > >was
> >>>  > > > > > abolished & replaced by the general body. this general body
> >>>  > >called
> >>>  > > > >the next
> >>>  > > > > > meeting of october 3, which is legal. i may have confused
> >>>dates,
> >>>  > > > >but the
> >>>  > > > > > facts are the facts. so now you can write a retraction to
> >>>the
> >>>  > >home
> >>>  > > > >news &
> >>>  > > > > > targum to explain your presumptious mistakes/lies.
> >>>  > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > the next meeting is january 5, do you dispute this
> >>>flavier? -joe
> >>>  > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> >>>  > > > > > >Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >>>  > > > > > >To: nbpeoplescampaign@y...
> >>>  > > > > > >Subject: [nbpc] Re: flavio recognizes meeting
> >>>  > > > > > >Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:35:59 -0000
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >Joe Smith has now taken to writing fiction!
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >I have always recognized the September 8 meeting.  I don't
> >>>  > > > >recognize
> >>>  > > > > > >the October 3 event, where, according to Joe, the following
> >>>  > > > >happened
> >>>  > > > > > >(this is per an email he sent me on November 15).
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > >>>
> >>>  > > > > > >on meeting 10/3/01 by unanimous vote the peoples campaign
> >>>  > >general
> >>>  > > > > > >membership
> >>>  > > > > > >made the official decision that the republican agenda & the
> >>>  > >peoples
> >>>  > > > > > >campaign
> >>>  > > > > > >agenda are incompatible. all known republicans frank
> >>>bright,
> >>>  > >curtis
> >>>  > > > > > >warren,
> >>>  > > > > > >tracy ford are to be expelled from nbpc membership &
> >>>egroups.
> >>>  > >you
> >>>  > > > >can
> >>>  > > > > > >check
> >>>  > > > > > >with tamara dahan tamaradahan@h... or cliff smith
> >>>  > > > > > >cliffsmith69@h...
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >joe
> >>>  > > > > > > >>>
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >Here's my question: where in Tamara's proposal is there
> >>>  > >anything
> >>>  > > > > > >about putting Joe on the Steering Commitee or expelling the
> >>>  > > > > > >Republicans????
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith"
> >>><can_bush@h...>
> >>>  > > > >wrote:
> >>>  > > > > > > > (tamara's proposal passed unanimously)
> >>>  > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., Groovemeister007@y...
> >>>wrote:
> >>>  > > > > > > > >Tamara,
> >>>  > > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > > >I want to first thank you for posting here what I
> >>>think is
> >>>  > >the
> >>>  > > > >only
> >>>  > > > > > > > >recent message that it actually relevant to NBPC.  As
> >>>you
> >>>  > >can
> >>>  > > > >see,
> >>>  > > > > > > > >this board has unfortunately been hijacked by
> >>>squabblers
> >>>  > >from
> >>>  > > > >every
> >>>  > > > > > > > >progressive group under the sun who are using it for
> >>>their
> >>>  > > > > > >bickering.
> >>>  > > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > > >That said, I want to explain why I will oppose your
> >>>  > >proposal.
> >>>  > > > >At
> >>>  > > > > > >the
> >>>  > > > > > > > >June 2001 meeting, the NBPC membership was able to
> >>>clearly
> >>>  > > > >state
> >>>  > > > > > >the
> >>>  > > > > > > > >issue and the resolution of the Campaign's direction,
> >>>in
> >>>  > >two
> >>>  > > > >short
> >>>  > > > > > > > >and clear points, when it wisely approved a resolution
> >>>  > >stating
> >>>  > > > >that
> >>>  > > > > > > > >the two concrete goals it wanted to accomplish in a 18-
> >>>  > >month
> >>>  > > > > > >window,
> >>>  > > > > > > > >were: (1) passing the New Brunswick Democracy and
> >>>  > > > >Accountability
> >>>  > > > > > > > >Ordinance by initiative and referendum in 2001 and (2)
> >>>  > >winning
> >>>  > > > >the
> >>>  > > > > > > > >mayor and two council seats in 2002.  The Membership
> >>>also
> >>>  > > > >voted at
> >>>  > > > > > > > >that time to oppose Schundler on the grounds that it
> >>>would
> >>>  > >help
> >>>  > > > > > > > >further these goals.
> >>>  > > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > > >Your proposal, in contrast, makes the defeat of
> >>>Schundler
> >>>  > >into
> >>>  > > > >the
> >>>  > > > > > > > >NBPC goal.  I believe the Membership's New Brunswick-
> >>>  > >focused
> >>>  > > > >goals,
> >>>  > > > > > > > >spread out over an 18-month time horizon are more
> >>>  > >appropriate
> >>>  > > > >for
> >>>  > > > > > > > >this local, progressive organization. Moreover, I find
> >>>it
> >>>  > > > > > > > >unproductive to re-debate the purpose of the campaign
> >>>every
> >>>  > > > >couple
> >>>  > > > > > >of
> >>>  > > > > > > > >months when a new idea comes up.  The Campaign has
> >>>already
> >>>  > > > >resolved
> >>>  > > > > > > > >to work against Schundler, work for the Democracy and
> >>>  > > > > > >Accountability
> >>>  > > > > > > > >Ordinance, and work for victory in 2002.  Therefore,
> >>>for
> >>>  > >this
> >>>  > > > > > > > >additional reason - the superfluousness of the
> >>>proposal, I
> >>>  > > > >would
> >>>  > > > > > >vote
> >>>  > > > > > > > >it down.
> >>>  > > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > > >--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "Tamara Dahan"
> >>>  > > > ><tamaradahan@h...>
> >>>  > > > > > > > >wrote:
> >>>  > > > > > > > > > Proposal for Peoples' Campaign Meeting Sept 8
> >>>  > > > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > > > > The major focus of the NBPC should be the upcoming
> >>>  > >election
> >>>  > > > >and
> >>>  > > > > > > > >Smashing Schundler.  Sisterhood & Struggle and the
> >>>Women's
> >>>  > > > >Caucus
> >>>  > > > > > >of the
> >>>  > > > > > > > >NBPC should organize and unite with all other women's
> >>>  > > > > > >organizations and
> >>>  > > > > > > > >head the efforts to defeat Scunndler.  S & S has
> >>>already
> >>>  > >been
> >>>  > > > >in
> >>>  > > > > > >contact
> >>>  > > > > > > > >with Planned Parenthood, NJ NOW, the AAUP, the IBEW
> >>>and
> >>>  > > > > > >McGreevey's
> >>>  > > > > > > > >campaign to >schedule a NB event in October in
> >>>defense of
> >>>  > > > >women,
> >>>  > > > > > >public
> >>>  > > > > > > > >education, and unions and to demand voting and working
> >>>  > >rights
> >>>  > > > >for
> >>>  > > > > > >all. At
> >>>  > > > > > > > >least one child care center in NB has fired it's
> >>>  > >undocumented
> >>>  > > > > > >women
> >>>  > > > > > > > >teachers because these private daycares are now
> >>>contracted
> >>>  > >out
> >>>  > > > >by
> >>>  > > > > > >the
> >>>  > > > > > > > >state. This displacement of latina community members
> >>>in an
> >>>  > > > >attack
> >>>  > > > > > >on public
> >>>  > > > > > > > >education has to be organized around and McGreevey be
> >>>  > >forced to
> >>>  > > > > > >take a
> >>>  > > > > > > > >position on it.
> >>>  > > > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > > > > Smash Schundler!
> >>>  > > > > > > > > > Women's Victory 2001!
> >>>  > > > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > > > > Tamara Dahan
> >>>  > > > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > > > >
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  >_________________________________________________________________
> >>>  > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> >>>  > > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >>>  > > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > >
> >>>  > > > > >
> >>>  > >_________________________________________________________________
> >>>  > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> >>>  > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >>>  > > > >
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  > > >
> >>>  > > >
> >>>_________________________________________________________________
> >>>  > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> >>>  > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >>>  > >
> >>>  > >
> >>>  >
> >>>  >
> >>>  > _________________________________________________________________
> >>>  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> >>>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >>>nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>_________________________________________________________________
> >>>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
> >>>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/
intl.asp








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2413
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-09 12:50:15
Subject:MUMIA DEMO.-ATTACKED BY COPS!!
Message:

Mumia Demonstration in Philadelphia
Attacked by Cops
December 8, 2001 - 4:30 PM EST

Several people were arrested and some were physically assaulted by police at 
a demonstration for political prisoner Mumia Abu-Jamal in Philadelphia 
today.  Those arrested included activists from the October 22nd Coalition to 
Stop Police Brutality, Refuse&Resist!, and Philly residents who work with 
International Friends and Family of Mumia Abu-Jamal.

An immediate response is needed to answer this outrage.  Please call or fax 
the Philadelphia Police Department ASAP to protest this attack and demand 
their release!

Center City District
927 Filbert Street
Philadelphia PA 19107
voice: 215-440-5551
voice: 215-440-5552
fax: 215-440-5556

Mayor's Office
(215) 686-1776


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2414
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-09 14:09:09
Subject:Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
Message:

nbpc 2002
unite the many, defeat the few!
12:00 noon
nb public library




>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpcmembers] Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
>Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 21:55:00 +0000
>
>Flavio,
>I attended the meeting on Sept. 8. Zofia came as a rep of the steering
>committee and explained that the Steering Committee dissolved itself and 
>had no interest in the campaign. At that meeting we voted to recall that 
>steering commitee and we elected a new one. This is fully in accordance 
>with the both the letter and spirit of by-laws of the People's Campign; 
>which hold that the General Meetings are the supreme body and hold supreme 
>decesion making power, and that the steering committee is subordinated to 
>that body. The main duties of the Steering Committee lie in the interim 
>period between general meetings. The People's Campaign internal structure 
>is radically democratic.
>      All of the evidence you raised as to why you find this unbelievable 
>is really not as impartial as you have presented it. Joe and Co. have been 
>acting in the name of the Campaign since this meeting which would give 
>credibilty to this story while at the same time the people that you believe 
>to be on the Steering Committee have not spoken once in the name of the 
>Campaign. How would you explain this? Actually don't asnwer, I don't really 
>care. No offense but this debate is
>leaning far over the edge of absurdity and I don't want to be the one to 
>push it over. The Campaign is being destroyed by people who to put it 
>mildly lack the social graces of kindergardeners (which is not to deny that 
>their method is connected to their political line but to point to the most 
>obvious maifestation of that line. Just today Joe Smith said in a letter to 
>asking me to help him "you are an ass".) on the one hand and on the other 
>by people who would rather run than struggle (that is how I read their 
>refusal to show up at the Sept 8 meeting: gutless).
>      However this deabate is pointless, if everyone can agree on a date 
>for the next general meeting everything can be decided there.  Elections, 
>tactics, strategy etc. The truth will come out in the couirse of practice. 
>Whoever has been doing the most effective organizing should have no problem 
>winning votes at the next meeting.
>
>Keith
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
> >Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 18:38:12 -0000
> >
> >Matt,
> >
> >the reason I responded privately to you is that I consider the debate
> >over.  Joe's coup has failed.  My conclusions stand; if Joe wants to
> >go to court to try and overturn these determinations, he is certainly
> >free to do so.
> >
> >I want you to consider this: Joe's claim is that a number of votes
> >happened on September 8, i.e. replacement of the Steering Commitee,
> >explusion of Republicans, etc.  Have you asked yourself - or him -
> >why he waited until November 12 to tell me these facts, waited until
> >November 30 to tell the press of these facts, and waited until
> >December 1 to tell the newsgroup of these facts?  Have you asked
> >yourself - or him - why, despite no less than six requests, he still
> >refuses to disclose who he recognizes as the Steering Committee?
> >Have you asked yourself - or him - why he can't get the dates or
> >votes straight on any of these things?  You've seen the evidence.
> >
> >My job as General Counsel is to represent the entity, not any
> >individuals, and not any factions.  I did not prejudge Joe's
> >assertions.  I looked at the evidence and found his story not
> >credible.  I have to look at actual evidence.  Evidence that is
> >consistent is something I credit.  Evidence that is inconsistent is
> >something I do not credit.  That's why I didn't and don't buy his
> >version of events.  I asked him for credible evidence; he provided
> >none.  When he hit me, out of the blue, on November 12 with
> >statements like the SC is abolished, membership from Republicans is
> >not being accepted (which he lated changed to say existing Republican
> >members are expelled), I asked for proof.  It's awful hard to believe
> >someone whose stories keep changing.  But still, I gave him every
> >opportunity to present some credible explanation - he didn't.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> > > Flavio- This is an interesting loop of logic you've gotten yourself
> >caught
> > > up in, but in all your legalistic web you fail to get to the heart
> >of the
> > > matter--that is, the NBPC ceased being an effective oragnization of
> >the
> > > people the moment it was consumed by liberal,sectarian formalism at
> >the
> > > expense of it's original mission as a united front for peoples'
> >democracy
> > > (revolutionary democracy)... some examples of which being the
> >expulsion of
> > > SWORD & permittance of republicanism- there are others... btw, re-
> >expelling
> > > SWORD will not bring you any closer to the people of the city!!
> > >
> > > & seriously, it is a bit odd that you keep responding to me
> >personally when
> > > I raise questions on a public(members) list....I'm still wondering
> >what the
> > > real intentions of the RED Collective members of the old Steering
> >Committee
> > > are regarding the NBPC. & if they lay claim--which is better than
> >abandoning
> > > the project--then why their absence over the months? I only ask you
> >because
> > > you volunteered to be their spokesperson......Matthew
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > From: "Komuves, Flavio" <>
> > > To: "Vivaohio@hotmail. com (E-mail)" <vivaohio@h...>
> > > Subject: Response to email
> > > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:23:29 -0500
> > >
> > > Matt,
> > >
> > > I issued the orders.  I have the authority to issue these orders by
> >virtue
> > > of (a) the general authority I possess as the General Counsel to
> >the entity
> > > to protect it against coups and unauthorized uses and dilution of
> >its name
> > > and (b) the specific authorization to issue these orders granted to
> >me by
> > > the Legal Committee of the Steering Committee.
> > >
> > > I cannot comment about when the full Steering Committee intends to
> >next
> > > issue a statement to its members.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In nbpcmembers@y <mailto:nbpcmembers@y> ..., "Matthew Smith" <
> > > vivaohio@h <mailto:vivaohio@h> ...> wrote:
> > >  > Flavio- Point of Clarification: who is issuing said orders?  You
> >have
> > > stated
> > >  > to me in a personal (?) memorandum that the original SC members
> >are in
> > > fact
> > >  > still in place.  When will the membership (?) hear from them,
> >and learn
> > >  > their intentions from them, rather than through a
> >spokesperson?  -Matt
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Above email is for intended recipient only and may be confidential
> >and
> > > protected by attorney/client privilege.
> > > If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender
> >immediately.
> > > Unauthorized use or distribution is prohibited and may be unlawful.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2415
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-09 18:50:35
Subject:SUPPORT TITO KAYAK!!
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign urges all our supporters to participate in 
this endeavor for Tito Kayak.  Below is a translated message from Tito 
Kayak's support listserve. Please forward this out far and wide.

Th ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
_______________________________________________________________

Since November 30th until today Tito Kayak has been returned to the "hole" 
for reasons that have not yet been revealed.  In a letter dated Dec. 6th, 
Tito feels that his visitation rights will be taken away from him and that 
he calls all those that are permitted to see him to visit him by Monday Dec. 
10th. He feels it could be the last time they can see him.

We are urging everyone to call, fax and email the prison warden asking that 
Tito be removed from solitary confinement, be given humane treatment and 
that he be sent back to Puerto Rico to fulfill the remainder of his prison 
term.

Call, write and fax:
Gregory Park
Warden
Metropolitan Correctional Center- Manhattan
150 Park Row
N. Y., N.Y. 10007
Tel:(212)240-9656
Fax:(212) 417-7673




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2416
Sender:"groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-09 23:44:03
Subject:Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
Message:

As you see, the date of this alleged gathering is missing from this 
post.  I can only presume that the date will be determined, after the 
fact, when Joe thinks happens to think of one and deems it fit to 
share it with the egroup.




--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> nbpc 2002
> unite the many, defeat the few!
> 12:00 noon
> nb public library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpcmembers] Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC 
General Council
> >Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 21:55:00 +0000
> >
> >Flavio,
> >I attended the meeting on Sept. 8. Zofia came as a rep of the 
steering
> >committee and explained that the Steering Committee dissolved 
itself and 
> >had no interest in the campaign. At that meeting we voted to 
recall that 
> >steering commitee and we elected a new one. This is fully in 
accordance 
> >with the both the letter and spirit of by-laws of the People's 
Campign; 
> >which hold that the General Meetings are the supreme body and hold 
supreme 
> >decesion making power, and that the steering committee is 
subordinated to 
> >that body. The main duties of the Steering Committee lie in the 
interim 
> >period between general meetings. The People's Campaign internal 
structure 
> >is radically democratic.
> >      All of the evidence you raised as to why you find this 
unbelievable 
> >is really not as impartial as you have presented it. Joe and Co. 
have been 
> >acting in the name of the Campaign since this meeting which would 
give 
> >credibilty to this story while at the same time the people that 
you believe 
> >to be on the Steering Committee have not spoken once in the name 
of the 
> >Campaign. How would you explain this? Actually don't asnwer, I 
don't really 
> >care. No offense but this debate is
> >leaning far over the edge of absurdity and I don't want to be the 
one to 
> >push it over. The Campaign is being destroyed by people who to put 
it 
> >mildly lack the social graces of kindergardeners (which is not to 
deny that 
> >their method is connected to their political line but to point to 
the most 
> >obvious maifestation of that line. Just today Joe Smith said in a 
letter to 
> >asking me to help him "you are an ass".) on the one hand and on 
the other 
> >by people who would rather run than struggle (that is how I read 
their 
> >refusal to show up at the Sept 8 meeting: gutless).
> >      However this deabate is pointless, if everyone can agree on 
a date 
> >for the next general meeting everything can be decided there.  
Elections, 
> >tactics, strategy etc. The truth will come out in the couirse of 
practice. 
> >Whoever has been doing the most effective organizing should have 
no problem 
> >winning votes at the next meeting.
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC General 
Council
> > >Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 18:38:12 -0000
> > >
> > >Matt,
> > >
> > >the reason I responded privately to you is that I consider the 
debate
> > >over.  Joe's coup has failed.  My conclusions stand; if Joe 
wants to
> > >go to court to try and overturn these determinations, he is 
certainly
> > >free to do so.
> > >
> > >I want you to consider this: Joe's claim is that a number of 
votes
> > >happened on September 8, i.e. replacement of the Steering 
Commitee,
> > >explusion of Republicans, etc.  Have you asked yourself - or 
him -
> > >why he waited until November 12 to tell me these facts, waited 
until
> > >November 30 to tell the press of these facts, and waited until
> > >December 1 to tell the newsgroup of these facts?  Have you asked
> > >yourself - or him - why, despite no less than six requests, he 
still
> > >refuses to disclose who he recognizes as the Steering Committee?
> > >Have you asked yourself - or him - why he can't get the dates or
> > >votes straight on any of these things?  You've seen the evidence.
> > >
> > >My job as General Counsel is to represent the entity, not any
> > >individuals, and not any factions.  I did not prejudge Joe's
> > >assertions.  I looked at the evidence and found his story not
> > >credible.  I have to look at actual evidence.  Evidence that is
> > >consistent is something I credit.  Evidence that is inconsistent 
is
> > >something I do not credit.  That's why I didn't and don't buy his
> > >version of events.  I asked him for credible evidence; he 
provided
> > >none.  When he hit me, out of the blue, on November 12 with
> > >statements like the SC is abolished, membership from Republicans 
is
> > >not being accepted (which he lated changed to say existing 
Republican
> > >members are expelled), I asked for proof.  It's awful hard to 
believe
> > >someone whose stories keep changing.  But still, I gave him every
> > >opportunity to present some credible explanation - he didn't.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> > > > Flavio- This is an interesting loop of logic you've gotten 
yourself
> > >caught
> > > > up in, but in all your legalistic web you fail to get to the 
heart
> > >of the
> > > > matter--that is, the NBPC ceased being an effective 
oragnization of
> > >the
> > > > people the moment it was consumed by liberal,sectarian 
formalism at
> > >the
> > > > expense of it's original mission as a united front for 
peoples'
> > >democracy
> > > > (revolutionary democracy)... some examples of which being the
> > >expulsion of
> > > > SWORD & permittance of republicanism- there are others... 
btw, re-
> > >expelling
> > > > SWORD will not bring you any closer to the people of the 
city!!
> > > >
> > > > & seriously, it is a bit odd that you keep responding to me
> > >personally when
> > > > I raise questions on a public(members) list....I'm still 
wondering
> > >what the
> > > > real intentions of the RED Collective members of the old 
Steering
> > >Committee
> > > > are regarding the NBPC. & if they lay claim--which is better 
than
> > >abandoning
> > > > the project--then why their absence over the months? I only 
ask you
> > >because
> > > > you volunteered to be their spokesperson......Matthew
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > > From: "Komuves, Flavio" <>
> > > > To: "Vivaohio@hotmail. com (E-mail)" <vivaohio@h...>
> > > > Subject: Response to email
> > > > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:23:29 -0500
> > > >
> > > > Matt,
> > > >
> > > > I issued the orders.  I have the authority to issue these 
orders by
> > >virtue
> > > > of (a) the general authority I possess as the General Counsel 
to
> > >the entity
> > > > to protect it against coups and unauthorized uses and 
dilution of
> > >its name
> > > > and (b) the specific authorization to issue these orders 
granted to
> > >me by
> > > > the Legal Committee of the Steering Committee.
> > > >
> > > > I cannot comment about when the full Steering Committee 
intends to
> > >next
> > > > issue a statement to its members.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In nbpcmembers@y <mailto:nbpcmembers@y> ..., "Matthew 
Smith" <
> > > > vivaohio@h <mailto:vivaohio@h> ...> wrote:
> > > >  > Flavio- Point of Clarification: who is issuing said 
orders?  You
> > >have
> > > > stated
> > > >  > to me in a personal (?) memorandum that the original SC 
members
> > >are in
> > > > fact
> > > >  > still in place.  When will the membership (?) hear from 
them,
> > >and learn
> > > >  > their intentions from them, rather than through a
> > >spokesperson?  -Matt
> > > >  >
> > > >  >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Above email is for intended recipient only and may be 
confidential
> > >and
> > > > protected by attorney/client privilege.
> > > > If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the 
sender
> > >immediately.
> > > > Unauthorized use or distribution is prohibited and may be 
unlawful.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 
_________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2417
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-10 07:38:20
Subject:Re: Response to F.
Message:

ha!
saturday, january 5
12:00 noon public library
no republicans!

what is your position now flavier, on the activities of sept8? -joe



>From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 04:44:03 -0000
>
>As you see, the date of this alleged gathering is missing from this
>post.  I can only presume that the date will be determined, after the
>fact, when Joe thinks happens to think of one and deems it fit to
>share it with the egroup.
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> > nbpc 2002
> > unite the many, defeat the few!
> > 12:00 noon
> > nb public library
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@h...>
> > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > >Subject: Re: [nbpcmembers] Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC
>General Council
> > >Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 21:55:00 +0000
> > >
> > >Flavio,
> > >I attended the meeting on Sept. 8. Zofia came as a rep of the
>steering
> > >committee and explained that the Steering Committee dissolved
>itself and
> > >had no interest in the campaign. At that meeting we voted to
>recall that
> > >steering commitee and we elected a new one. This is fully in
>accordance
> > >with the both the letter and spirit of by-laws of the People's
>Campign;
> > >which hold that the General Meetings are the supreme body and hold
>supreme
> > >decesion making power, and that the steering committee is
>subordinated to
> > >that body. The main duties of the Steering Committee lie in the
>interim
> > >period between general meetings. The People's Campaign internal
>structure
> > >is radically democratic.
> > >      All of the evidence you raised as to why you find this
>unbelievable
> > >is really not as impartial as you have presented it. Joe and Co.
>have been
> > >acting in the name of the Campaign since this meeting which would
>give
> > >credibilty to this story while at the same time the people that
>you believe
> > >to be on the Steering Committee have not spoken once in the name
>of the
> > >Campaign. How would you explain this? Actually don't asnwer, I
>don't really
> > >care. No offense but this debate is
> > >leaning far over the edge of absurdity and I don't want to be the
>one to
> > >push it over. The Campaign is being destroyed by people who to put
>it
> > >mildly lack the social graces of kindergardeners (which is not to
>deny that
> > >their method is connected to their political line but to point to
>the most
> > >obvious maifestation of that line. Just today Joe Smith said in a
>letter to
> > >asking me to help him "you are an ass".) on the one hand and on
>the other
> > >by people who would rather run than struggle (that is how I read
>their
> > >refusal to show up at the Sept 8 meeting: gutless).
> > >      However this deabate is pointless, if everyone can agree on
>a date
> > >for the next general meeting everything can be decided there.
>Elections,
> > >tactics, strategy etc. The truth will come out in the couirse of
>practice.
> > >Whoever has been doing the most effective organizing should have
>no problem
> > >winning votes at the next meeting.
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
> > > >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > >Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC General
>Council
> > > >Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 18:38:12 -0000
> > > >
> > > >Matt,
> > > >
> > > >the reason I responded privately to you is that I consider the
>debate
> > > >over.  Joe's coup has failed.  My conclusions stand; if Joe
>wants to
> > > >go to court to try and overturn these determinations, he is
>certainly
> > > >free to do so.
> > > >
> > > >I want you to consider this: Joe's claim is that a number of
>votes
> > > >happened on September 8, i.e. replacement of the Steering
>Commitee,
> > > >explusion of Republicans, etc.  Have you asked yourself - or
>him -
> > > >why he waited until November 12 to tell me these facts, waited
>until
> > > >November 30 to tell the press of these facts, and waited until
> > > >December 1 to tell the newsgroup of these facts?  Have you asked
> > > >yourself - or him - why, despite no less than six requests, he
>still
> > > >refuses to disclose who he recognizes as the Steering Committee?
> > > >Have you asked yourself - or him - why he can't get the dates or
> > > >votes straight on any of these things?  You've seen the evidence.
> > > >
> > > >My job as General Counsel is to represent the entity, not any
> > > >individuals, and not any factions.  I did not prejudge Joe's
> > > >assertions.  I looked at the evidence and found his story not
> > > >credible.  I have to look at actual evidence.  Evidence that is
> > > >consistent is something I credit.  Evidence that is inconsistent
>is
> > > >something I do not credit.  That's why I didn't and don't buy his
> > > >version of events.  I asked him for credible evidence; he
>provided
> > > >none.  When he hit me, out of the blue, on November 12 with
> > > >statements like the SC is abolished, membership from Republicans
>is
> > > >not being accepted (which he lated changed to say existing
>Republican
> > > >members are expelled), I asked for proof.  It's awful hard to
>believe
> > > >someone whose stories keep changing.  But still, I gave him every
> > > >opportunity to present some credible explanation - he didn't.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> > > > > Flavio- This is an interesting loop of logic you've gotten
>yourself
> > > >caught
> > > > > up in, but in all your legalistic web you fail to get to the
>heart
> > > >of the
> > > > > matter--that is, the NBPC ceased being an effective
>oragnization of
> > > >the
> > > > > people the moment it was consumed by liberal,sectarian
>formalism at
> > > >the
> > > > > expense of it's original mission as a united front for
>peoples'
> > > >democracy
> > > > > (revolutionary democracy)... some examples of which being the
> > > >expulsion of
> > > > > SWORD & permittance of republicanism- there are others...
>btw, re-
> > > >expelling
> > > > > SWORD will not bring you any closer to the people of the
>city!!
> > > > >
> > > > > & seriously, it is a bit odd that you keep responding to me
> > > >personally when
> > > > > I raise questions on a public(members) list....I'm still
>wondering
> > > >what the
> > > > > real intentions of the RED Collective members of the old
>Steering
> > > >Committee
> > > > > are regarding the NBPC. & if they lay claim--which is better
>than
> > > >abandoning
> > > > > the project--then why their absence over the months? I only
>ask you
> > > >because
> > > > > you volunteered to be their spokesperson......Matthew
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > > > From: "Komuves, Flavio" <>
> > > > > To: "Vivaohio@hotmail. com (E-mail)" <vivaohio@h...>
> > > > > Subject: Response to email
> > > > > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:23:29 -0500
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt,
> > > > >
> > > > > I issued the orders.  I have the authority to issue these
>orders by
> > > >virtue
> > > > > of (a) the general authority I possess as the General Counsel
>to
> > > >the entity
> > > > > to protect it against coups and unauthorized uses and
>dilution of
> > > >its name
> > > > > and (b) the specific authorization to issue these orders
>granted to
> > > >me by
> > > > > the Legal Committee of the Steering Committee.
> > > > >
> > > > > I cannot comment about when the full Steering Committee
>intends to
> > > >next
> > > > > issue a statement to its members.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In nbpcmembers@y <mailto:nbpcmembers@y> ..., "Matthew
>Smith" <
> > > > > vivaohio@h <mailto:vivaohio@h> ...> wrote:
> > > > >  > Flavio- Point of Clarification: who is issuing said
>orders?  You
> > > >have
> > > > > stated
> > > > >  > to me in a personal (?) memorandum that the original SC
>members
> > > >are in
> > > > > fact
> > > > >  > still in place.  When will the membership (?) hear from
>them,
> > > >and learn
> > > > >  > their intentions from them, rather than through a
> > > >spokesperson?  -Matt
> > > > >  >
> > > > >  >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Above email is for intended recipient only and may be
>confidential
> > > >and
> > > > > protected by attorney/client privilege.
> > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the
>sender
> > > >immediately.
> > > > > Unauthorized use or distribution is prohibited and may be
>unlawful.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2418
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-10 11:04:52
Subject:MUMIA EMERGENCY!!
Message:

** PLEASE FORWARD AND DISTRIBUTE WIDELY (ON AND OFF-LINE!) **

INTERNATIONAL CONCERNED FAMILY AND FRIENDS OF MUMIA ABU-JAMAL URGENT APPEAL

LATEST UPDATED INFORMATION - PLEASE READ THOROUGHLY:

1.  THE MOST URGENT ISSUE RIGHT NOW IS THE NEED FOR  MONEY FOR BAIL - THE 
BONDS SET RANGE FROM  BETWEEN $8,000 AND $100,000.  THE TOTAL ESTIMATED 
AMOUNT IS APPROXIMATELY $320,000 FOR ALL THOSE WITH BAIL SET - WE HAVE TO 
RAISE APPROXIMATELY $15,000 MINIMUM TO BAIL THE REMAINING PEOPLE OUT.  8 
PEOPLE WERE ARRESTED, 2 WERE RELEASED WITHOUT CHARGES OR BAIL, AND SOME 
PEOPLE ARE BEING BAILED OUT, BUT WE MUST URGENTLY RAISE MONEY TO PAY BACK 
LOANS MADE FOR BAIL.

2.  5 OF THE 6 WHO WERE CHARGED HAVE BEEN ARRAIGNED AND HAVE BAILS AND 
CHARGES SET.  EACH OF THESE 6 MUMIA SUPPORTERS WERE GIVEN FELONY CHARGES, 
INCLUDING FELONY ASSAULT AND FELONY RIOT, AS WELL AS CONSPIRACY, ASSAULT, 
AND CONSPIRACY TO RIOT.

3.  THIS WAS A **LEGALLY PERMITTED DEMONSTRATION AND MARCH** AND THE KIND OF 
VIOLENCE POLICE EXHIBITED YESTERDAY WAS HIGHLY UNUSUAL FOR MUMIA MARCHES IN 
PHILADELPHIA.

4.  THERE ARE SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO ARE PREPARED TO MAKE STATEMENTS TO THE 
MEDIA - MEDIA PERSONS SHOULD CONTACT JODI DODD AT 215-563-7110.

5.  4 PEOPLE WERE HOSPITALIZED WITH INJURIES INCLUDING: PROLONGED STATES OF 
UNCONSCIOUSNESS, AT LEAST ONE CONCUSSION, FRACTURED TAILBONE, INTERNAL 
BLEEDING, SEVERE ABRASIONS -- THE WORST INJURED PERSON WAS FINALLY RELEASED. 
  NO ONE IS CURRENTLY IN THE HOSPITAL, ALL ARE IN CUSTODY OR IN THE PROCESS 
OF BEING RELEASED.

6.  EVEN THOUGH THE MOST INJURED PERSON HAS ALREADY BEEN RELEASED, WE STILL 
HAVE PEOPLE IN JAIL WITH MEDICAL CONDITIONS WHO ARE IN NEED OF MEDICATION 
AND TREATMENT.  THERE ARE 2 PEOPLE WHO ARE IN JAIL WITHOUT FAMILY NEARBY AND 
UNTIL WE MAKE CONTACT WITH PEOPLE WHO CAN PROVIDE MONEY FOR THEM, THE ONLY 
WAY THAT WE CAN GET THEM OUT ON BAIL IS THROUGH DONATIONS FROM ACTIVISTS 
AROUND THE COUNTRY.

7.   WITNESSES AND DEFENDANTS NEED TO CALL US AT 215-476-5416 IMMEDIATELY.  
ANYBODY WHO HAS ANY VIDEO OR PHOTO FOOTAGE OR KNOWS ANYONE WHO DOES NEEDS TO 
CALL IMMEDIATELY AND GIVE THEIR NAME, PHONE NUMBER, AND E-MAIL ADDRESS.  
PHONE MESSAGES WILL BE CHECKED REGULARLY.  IT IS URGENT THAT WE GET ALL OF 
THIS INFORMATION TO LAWYERS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.  EVERY WITNESS THAT HAS 
CALLED IN THUS FAR TELLS A SIMILAR STORY AFTER HAVING SEEN THE WHOLE THING 
HAPPEN AND ALL REPORT WITNESSING THE POLICE POUNCE ON PROTESTORS WITHOUT ANY 
PROVOCATION OR CONFRONTATION.

8.  WE NEED PEOPLE TO CALL D.A. LYNN ABRAHAM TO DEMAND THAT ALL CHARGES BE 
DROPPED AT 215-686-9604, OR
FAX  215-686-8049.

9.  PLEASE WRITE AND E-MAIL LOCAL AND NATIONAL PRESS (SOME PHILLY PRESS 
ADDRESSES ARE AVAILABLE AT PHILLYNEWS.COM).  DO NOT GIVE NAMES OR 
DESCRIPTIONS OF SUPPORTERS OVER THE TELEPHONE, IN E-MAILS OR IN LETTERS 
BECAUSE THAT INFORMATION IS NEEDED FOR INTERVIEWS WITH LAWYERS.  IN PHONE 
DISCUSSIONS AND LETTERS TO THE EDITOR, PLEASE GIVE GENERAL DESCRIPTIONS OF 
THE ATMOSPHERE OF HOW POLICE CAME DOWN SO HARD ON PROTESTORS, BECAUSE THERE 
HAS BEEN A LOT OF MISINFORMATION IN THE MEDIA SAYING THAT PROTESTORS 
PROVOKED IT IN AN ATTEMPT TO COVER UP THE FACT THAT THIS WAS A POLICE RIOT.

10.  PLEASE CALL PHILADELPHIA MAYOR JOHN STREET AT 215-686-2181 OR FAX 
215-686-3162, AS WELL AS ACTING POLICE COMMISSIONER JOHNSON AT 215-686-3280, 
AND MAKE COMPLAINTS  ABOUT THE WAY PEOPLE WERE TREATED ON THE STREETS AND IN 
CUSTODY.

**  ICFFMAJ IS URGING PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNTRY AND WORLD TO MAKE DONATIONS 
IF YOU CAN, AND LOANS IF YOU CAN'T MAKE ACTUAL DONATIONS.  IT IS EXTREMELY 
IMPORTANT TO GET THESE PEOPLE RELEASED FROM JAIL AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. WE 
NEED PEOPLE TO FUNDRAISE ASAP.  **

THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO MAKE DONATIONS:

A.  THE IDEAL THING IS TO WIRE MONEY SO THAT IT CAN BE PICKED UP AS CASH, 
BECAUSE ONLY CASH CAN BE USED TO BAIL PEOPLE OUT.  PLEASE CALL THE OFFICE AT 
215-476-5416 SO THAT WE WILL KNOW TO PICK IT UP OR IT WILL JUST SIT THERE.   
PLEASE WIRE MONEY TO:
ANTHONY ALLEN
3960 DENNISON AVE., APT. D-3
DREXEL HILL, PA  19026
YOU WILL NEED HIS PHONE NUMBER (610) 394-0306

B. PLEASE SEND CHECKS IF YOU CANNOT WIRE MONEY.  MAKE CHECKS PAYABLE TO PDAG 
(PHILADELPHIA DIRECT ACTION GROUP), P.O. BOX 40683, PHLA., PA 19107 - 
SPECIFY IN THE MEMO LINE "DECEMBER 8TH LEGAL FUND".

IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DONATION PROCESS OR IF YOU NEED TO MAKE 
A TAX DEDUCTIBLE DONATION, CALL DANIELLE AT 215-680-1174 (MESSAGES WILL BE 
FREQUENTLY CHECKED).

STAY STRONG, STAY COMMITTED!!  THANKS SO MUCH FOR WHATEVER YOU CAN DO!!

CAN'T STOP, WON'T STOP, UNTIL MUMIA IS FREE!!
www.mumia.org


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2419
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-10 18:08:23
Subject:Mumia Update-Part 2
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is calling on the Latin@ community and all 
communities to support Mumia, Mumia's allies and all the forces coming 
together to fight against the attacks on Dec. 8th.  Please read the 
following.  We apologize for so many postings, but we feel this is an 
emergency!!

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org (THE SITE IS BACK)
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
_________________________________________________________________
International Concerned Family & Friends in Philadelphia has been
investigating the police riot at the the peaceful Mumia march this
past Saturday in Philadelphia. All eyewitness reports and footage
show that the police jumped and beat peaceful marchers without
provocation. In particular, they were infuriated at the footage of
confessed hitman Arnold Beverly testifying of his guilt in the
killing of Officer Daniel Faulkner with the help of corrupt Philly
police and mafia.

Around 200+ police ambushed Mumia demonstrators on Walnut Street, a
wealthy shopping area near where the legally permitted march was
about to end at a local church. The demonstrators were taken to the
hospital and to the 9th Precinct (20th & Pennsylvania).

THIS WAS A PERMITTED DEMONSTRATION. The cops had NO BUSINESS messing
with the demonstration at all. Civil Affairs cops who were supposed
to be the intermediary between the cops and demonstrators were
nowhere to be found during the ambush. A contingent of bicycle cops,
assigned to the back of the march, suddenly rode to the middle of the
march, ramming people with their bikes and attacked demonstrators.
One, Officer Sanromei, pulled his own gun out from under his jacket
and held it to the neck of a terrified, peaceful demonstrator. He
then pointed his gun in a circle at the demonstrators around him. His
out-of-control demeanor and gun caused terror and pandemonium as the
crowd ran for their lives. Other police followed people trying to get
away clubbing them on their heads, throwing them violently against
buildings, blocking their paths towards the nearby church where the
legal rally was leading to and arresting us. Another cop, badge
number 9354, dragged a young woman on her back for 2 blocks as she
was screaming in pain, ripping off her skin and hospitalizing her.

At least 10 protestors were arrested, and several hospitalized. One
with a broken jaw, one with a broken tailbone, one with a concussion,
one rendered unconscious, several with pepper spray injuries and
other serious injuries.

EVEN THOUGH THE MOST INJURED PERSON HAS ALREADY BEEN RELEASED, WE
STILL HAVE PEOPLE IN JAIL WITH MEDICAL CONDITIONS WHO ARE IN NEED OF
MEDICATION AND TREATMENT.  THERE ARE 2 PEOPLE WHO ARE IN JAIL WITHOUT
FAMILY NEARBY AND UNTIL WE MAKE CONTACT WITH PEOPLE WHO CAN PROVIDE
MONEY FOR THEM, THE ONLY WAY THAT WE CAN GET THEM OUT ON BAIL IS
THROUGH DONATIONS FROM ACTIVISTS AROUND THE COUNTRY

Bail is still urgently needed for a couple protestors. WIRE
CONTRIBUTIONS (TONITE OR WITHIN 12 HOURS) TO:
ANTHONY ALLEN
3960 DENNISON AVE., APT. D-3
DREXEL HILL, PA  19026
YOU WILL NEED HIS PHONE NUMBER (610) 394-0306
** IMPORTANT: PLEASE CALL ICFFMAJ AT 215-476-5416 TO LET THEM KNOW
THAT YOU HAVE WIRED THE MONEY.**

WITNESSES AND DEFENDANTS NEED TO CALL US AT 215-476-5416
IMMEDIATELY.  ANYBODY WHO HAS ANY VIDEO OR PHOTO FOOTAGE OR KNOWS
ANYONE WHO DOES NEEDS TO CALL IMMEDIATELY AND GIVE THEIR NAME, PHONE
NUMBER, AND E-MAIL ADDRESS.  PHONE MESSAGES WILL BE CHECKED
REGULARLY.  IT IS URGENT THAT WE GET ALL OF THIS INFORMATION TO
LAWYERS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.  EVERY WITNESS THAT HAS CALLED IN THUS
FAR TELLS A SIMILAR STORY AFTER HAVING SEEN THE WHOLE THING HAPPEN
AND ALL REPORT WITNESSING THE POLICE POUNCE ON PROTESTORS WITHOUT ANY
PROVOCATION OR CONFRONTATION.

THERE ARE SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO ARE PREPARED TO MAKE STATEMENTS TO THE
MEDIA - MEDIA PERSONS SHOULD CONTACT JODI DODD AT 215-563-7110.

Also, protest calls are urgently needed to demand charges be dropped
against demonstrators (most were given felony charges!) and that cops
be jailed. Especially call D.A. LYNN ABRAHAM TO DEMAND THAT ALL
CHARGES BE DROPPED AT 215-686-9604, OR FAX  215-686-8049.

Keep checking Mumia's official website, www.Mumia.org, Int'l
Concerned Family & Friends of Mumia Abu-Jamal, for the latest
information.

Attend the next NYC Free Mumia Abu-Jamal Coalition meeting this weds.
Dec. 12th, 7pm at Martin Luther King Jr. Labor Center, 310 W. 43rd
St. (just west of 43rd St.) for a complete legal update, to plan
defense for our sisters and brothers so brutally attacked, to get new
brief filed by Mumia's lawyers (at www.freemumia.com/legal right now)
and more.

DONATIONS FOR LAWYERS AND POLITICAL DEFENSE URGENTLY NEEDED. IF YOU
HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DONATION PROCESS OR IF YOU NEED TO MAKE
A TAX DEDUCTIBLE DONATION, CALL DANIELLE AT 215-680-1174 (MESSAGES
WILL BE FREQUENTLY CHECKED).

STAY STRONG, STAY COMMITTED!!  THANKS SO MUCH FOR WHATEVER YOU CAN
DO!!

CAN'T STOP, WON'T STOP, UNTIL MUMIA IS FREE!!
--Mumia is Innocent!  Stop the Frame Up!  Free Mumia!--

Free Mumia Abu-Jamal Coalition, NYC, P.O. Box 650, NY, NY 10009
212-330-8029, www.FreeMumia.com, info@...





_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2420
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-10 20:36:24
Subject:Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Re: to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
Message:



>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nbpcmembers] Re: to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:18:53
>
>Like I said, Flavio, I find your willingness to struggle for the NBPC far
>better than abandoning it.  I'll believe others committment to it when I
>hear it from them, not from you.  I find it strange strange that you are
>critical of Joe for not posting developments here when this egroup hasn't
>been utelized by the old SC for months and months....&, while it is a sign
>of a certain maturing of our movement to struggle in the electoral arena, 
>to
>equate this with resolving all of our internal disputes in the courts is
>nonsense.  Unless we can struggle this out in front of the people and let
>them determine which line is in their best interest, the NBPC will not have
>a public mandate & will be reduced to a pissant liberal advocacy 
>group...not
>a pajorative, an observation.  We must learn to use the electoral process
>for the benefit of the peoples' democratic struggle.  To be consumed by it
>is an error in judgement, and a yielding to the oppressive constructs &
>mechanisms of bourgeois rule.  For the record, while we're on formalities,
>whatever by-law gave you the 'right' to issue such and said orders is the
>first thing that ought to go from the organization.  Formalities aside, I 
>am
>interested in hearing your thoughts on the original mission of the NBPC as 
>a
>united front. -Matt
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 04:41:01 -0000
>
>Matt,
>
>what you call the "old" and what I call the "existing" Steering
>Committee has been, in the realm of NB politics, recruiting
>candidates, analyzing issues, helping student voters on election day,
>making RTK requests, writing LTEs, etc.  All while working on some
>other non-NBPC projects like their criminal justice project, and
>engaging in some pro-peace and pro-civil liberties activities.  The
>basic idea as far as NB is concerned is, as I said previously, is to
>broaden the progressives' electoral base in a new organizational
>framework.
>
>As far as the issue of suing in court, organizations, corporations,
>churches, etc. have since time immemorial turned to the courts when
>one or more faction claimed control.  I don't see the idea of
>suggesting it to be so out of whack.  That said, I find Keith's idea
>of setting a mutually agreeable date for a membership meeting to wrap
>up business is a useful suggestion.
>
>I understand you consider the term "liberal legalism" to be a
>pejorative; I do not.  Two things to consider: (1) this group went
>into the 2000 election with the purpose of winning an electoral
>campaign.  The decision to move from street protestors to an
>effective electoral organization necessarily means engaging in a
>certain level of legal formalities.  (2) Had Joe told the 58 NBPC
>members on this egroup about the alleged votes at the September
>meeting, in September, his case would be much stronger.  A quick
>email to me  a week after the meeting - or a posting to the group -
>saying, "Hey, Flav.  At the 9/8 meeting, the members voted out the
>old Steering Committe and installed X, Y, Z in their place, and also
>voted to expel registered Republicans.  Joe" would have been
>immensely more credible than contradictory information presented 2
>months after the fact, and would have probably swung me to Joe's side
>of this debate.  Asking Joe to inform the 58 members of this egroup
>of numerous radical sea changes in the group is not, in my view,
>asking for unnecessary "legalisms" but just basic communication from
>leadership to members.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
>  > Flavio- Where has the old SC been throughout all of this, if not
>abandoning
>  > the project out of their own frustrations?  Your assertion that Joe
>should
>  > sue you in court to resolve the matter shows how out of touch with
>the
>  > essence of the original organizational mission this liberal
>legalism is.
>  > That said- I respect that you haven't relinguished your
>responsibility and
>  > history with the NBPC- which far and away better than some other
>organizers
>  > tendencies  -Matt
>  >
>  >
>  > ----Original Message Follows----
>  > From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
>  > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  > To: nbpcmembers@y...
>  > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC General
>Council
>  > Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 18:38:12 -0000
>  >
>  > Matt,
>  >
>  > the reason I responded privately to you is that I consider the
>debate
>  > over.  Joe's coup has failed.  My conclusions stand; if Joe wants to
>  > go to court to try and overturn these determinations, he is
>certainly
>  > free to do so.
>  >
>  > I want you to consider this: Joe's claim is that a number of votes
>  > happened on September 8, i.e. replacement of the Steering Commitee,
>  > explusion of Republicans, etc.  Have you asked yourself - or him -
>  > why he waited until November 12 to tell me these facts, waited until
>  > November 30 to tell the press of these facts, and waited until
>  > December 1 to tell the newsgroup of these facts?  Have you asked
>  > yourself - or him - why, despite no less than six requests, he still
>  > refuses to disclose who he recognizes as the Steering Committee?
>  > Have you asked yourself - or him - why he can't get the dates or
>  > votes straight on any of these things?  You've seen the evidence.
>  >
>  > My job as General Counsel is to represent the entity, not any
>  > individuals, and not any factions.  I did not prejudge Joe's
>  > assertions.  I looked at the evidence and found his story not
>  > credible.  I have to look at actual evidence.  Evidence that is
>  > consistent is something I credit.  Evidence that is inconsistent is
>  > something I do not credit.  That's why I didn't and don't buy his
>  > version of events.  I asked him for credible evidence; he provided
>  > none.  When he hit me, out of the blue, on November 12 with
>  > statements like the SC is abolished, membership from Republicans is
>  > not being accepted (which he lated changed to say existing
>Republican
>  > members are expelled), I asked for proof.  It's awful hard to
>believe
>  > someone whose stories keep changing.  But still, I gave him every
>  > opportunity to present some credible explanation - he didn't.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
>  >  > Flavio- This is an interesting loop of logic you've gotten
>yourself
>  > caught
>  >  > up in, but in all your legalistic web you fail to get to the
>heart
>  > of the
>  >  > matter--that is, the NBPC ceased being an effective oragnization
>of
>  > the
>  >  > people the moment it was consumed by liberal,sectarian formalism
>at
>  > the
>  >  > expense of it's original mission as a united front for peoples'
>  > democracy
>  >  > (revolutionary democracy)... some examples of which being the
>  > expulsion of
>  >  > SWORD & permittance of republicanism- there are others... btw,
>re-
>  > expelling
>  >  > SWORD will not bring you any closer to the people of the city!!
>  >  >
>  >  > & seriously, it is a bit odd that you keep responding to me
>  > personally when
>  >  > I raise questions on a public(members) list....I'm still
>wondering
>  > what the
>  >  > real intentions of the RED Collective members of the old Steering
>  > Committee
>  >  > are regarding the NBPC. & if they lay claim--which is better than
>  > abandoning
>  >  > the project--then why their absence over the months? I only ask
>you
>  > because
>  >  > you volunteered to be their spokesperson......Matthew
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > ----Original Message Follows----
>  >  > From: "Komuves, Flavio" <>
>  >  > To: "Vivaohio@hotmail. com (E-mail)" <vivaohio@h...>
>  >  > Subject: Response to email
>  >  > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:23:29 -0500
>  >  >
>  >  > Matt,
>  >  >
>  >  > I issued the orders.  I have the authority to issue these orders
>by
>  > virtue
>  >  > of (a) the general authority I possess as the General Counsel to
>  > the entity
>  >  > to protect it against coups and unauthorized uses and dilution of
>  > its name
>  >  > and (b) the specific authorization to issue these orders granted
>to
>  > me by
>  >  > the Legal Committee of the Steering Committee.
>  >  >
>  >  > I cannot comment about when the full Steering Committee intends
>to
>  > next
>  >  > issue a statement to its members.
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > --- In nbpcmembers@y <mailto:nbpcmembers@y> ..., "Matthew Smith"
><
>  >  > vivaohio@h <mailto:vivaohio@h> ...> wrote:
>  >  >  > Flavio- Point of Clarification: who is issuing said orders?
>You
>  > have
>  >  > stated
>  >  >  > to me in a personal (?) memorandum that the original SC
>members
>  > are in
>  >  > fact
>  >  >  > still in place.  When will the membership (?) hear from them,
>  > and learn
>  >  >  > their intentions from them, rather than through a
>  > spokesperson?  -Matt
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > Above email is for intended recipient only and may be
>confidential
>  > and
>  >  > protected by attorney/client privilege.
>  >  > If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender
>  > immediately.
>  >  > Unauthorized use or distribution is prohibited and may be
>unlawful.
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > _________________________________________________________________
>  >  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>  > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > _________________________________________________________________
>  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2421
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-10 20:37:51
Subject:Fwd: [nbpcmembers] Re: to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
Message:



>From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 04:41:01 -0000
>
>Matt,
>
>what you call the "old" and what I call the "existing" Steering
>Committee has been, in the realm of NB politics, recruiting
>candidates, analyzing issues, helping student voters on election day,
>making RTK requests, writing LTEs, etc.  All while working on some
>other non-NBPC projects like their criminal justice project, and
>engaging in some pro-peace and pro-civil liberties activities.  The
>basic idea as far as NB is concerned is, as I said previously, is to
>broaden the progressives' electoral base in a new organizational
>framework.
>
>As far as the issue of suing in court, organizations, corporations,
>churches, etc. have since time immemorial turned to the courts when
>one or more faction claimed control.  I don't see the idea of
>suggesting it to be so out of whack.  That said, I find Keith's idea
>of setting a mutually agreeable date for a membership meeting to wrap
>up business is a useful suggestion.
>
>I understand you consider the term "liberal legalism" to be a
>pejorative; I do not.  Two things to consider: (1) this group went
>into the 2000 election with the purpose of winning an electoral
>campaign.  The decision to move from street protestors to an
>effective electoral organization necessarily means engaging in a
>certain level of legal formalities.  (2) Had Joe told the 58 NBPC
>members on this egroup about the alleged votes at the September
>meeting, in September, his case would be much stronger.  A quick
>email to me  a week after the meeting - or a posting to the group -
>saying, "Hey, Flav.  At the 9/8 meeting, the members voted out the
>old Steering Committe and installed X, Y, Z in their place, and also
>voted to expel registered Republicans.  Joe" would have been
>immensely more credible than contradictory information presented 2
>months after the fact, and would have probably swung me to Joe's side
>of this debate.  Asking Joe to inform the 58 members of this egroup
>of numerous radical sea changes in the group is not, in my view,
>asking for unnecessary "legalisms" but just basic communication from
>leadership to members.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> > Flavio- Where has the old SC been throughout all of this, if not
>abandoning
> > the project out of their own frustrations?  Your assertion that Joe
>should
> > sue you in court to resolve the matter shows how out of touch with
>the
> > essence of the original organizational mission this liberal
>legalism is.
> > That said- I respect that you haven't relinguished your
>responsibility and
> > history with the NBPC- which far and away better than some other
>organizers
> > tendencies  -Matt
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
> > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC General
>Council
> > Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 18:38:12 -0000
> >
> > Matt,
> >
> > the reason I responded privately to you is that I consider the
>debate
> > over.  Joe's coup has failed.  My conclusions stand; if Joe wants to
> > go to court to try and overturn these determinations, he is
>certainly
> > free to do so.
> >
> > I want you to consider this: Joe's claim is that a number of votes
> > happened on September 8, i.e. replacement of the Steering Commitee,
> > explusion of Republicans, etc.  Have you asked yourself - or him -
> > why he waited until November 12 to tell me these facts, waited until
> > November 30 to tell the press of these facts, and waited until
> > December 1 to tell the newsgroup of these facts?  Have you asked
> > yourself - or him - why, despite no less than six requests, he still
> > refuses to disclose who he recognizes as the Steering Committee?
> > Have you asked yourself - or him - why he can't get the dates or
> > votes straight on any of these things?  You've seen the evidence.
> >
> > My job as General Counsel is to represent the entity, not any
> > individuals, and not any factions.  I did not prejudge Joe's
> > assertions.  I looked at the evidence and found his story not
> > credible.  I have to look at actual evidence.  Evidence that is
> > consistent is something I credit.  Evidence that is inconsistent is
> > something I do not credit.  That's why I didn't and don't buy his
> > version of events.  I asked him for credible evidence; he provided
> > none.  When he hit me, out of the blue, on November 12 with
> > statements like the SC is abolished, membership from Republicans is
> > not being accepted (which he lated changed to say existing
>Republican
> > members are expelled), I asked for proof.  It's awful hard to
>believe
> > someone whose stories keep changing.  But still, I gave him every
> > opportunity to present some credible explanation - he didn't.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> >  > Flavio- This is an interesting loop of logic you've gotten
>yourself
> > caught
> >  > up in, but in all your legalistic web you fail to get to the
>heart
> > of the
> >  > matter--that is, the NBPC ceased being an effective oragnization
>of
> > the
> >  > people the moment it was consumed by liberal,sectarian formalism
>at
> > the
> >  > expense of it's original mission as a united front for peoples'
> > democracy
> >  > (revolutionary democracy)... some examples of which being the
> > expulsion of
> >  > SWORD & permittance of republicanism- there are others... btw,
>re-
> > expelling
> >  > SWORD will not bring you any closer to the people of the city!!
> >  >
> >  > & seriously, it is a bit odd that you keep responding to me
> > personally when
> >  > I raise questions on a public(members) list....I'm still
>wondering
> > what the
> >  > real intentions of the RED Collective members of the old Steering
> > Committee
> >  > are regarding the NBPC. & if they lay claim--which is better than
> > abandoning
> >  > the project--then why their absence over the months? I only ask
>you
> > because
> >  > you volunteered to be their spokesperson......Matthew
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > ----Original Message Follows----
> >  > From: "Komuves, Flavio" <>
> >  > To: "Vivaohio@hotmail. com (E-mail)" <vivaohio@h...>
> >  > Subject: Response to email
> >  > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:23:29 -0500
> >  >
> >  > Matt,
> >  >
> >  > I issued the orders.  I have the authority to issue these orders
>by
> > virtue
> >  > of (a) the general authority I possess as the General Counsel to
> > the entity
> >  > to protect it against coups and unauthorized uses and dilution of
> > its name
> >  > and (b) the specific authorization to issue these orders granted
>to
> > me by
> >  > the Legal Committee of the Steering Committee.
> >  >
> >  > I cannot comment about when the full Steering Committee intends
>to
> > next
> >  > issue a statement to its members.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > --- In nbpcmembers@y <mailto:nbpcmembers@y> ..., "Matthew Smith"
><
> >  > vivaohio@h <mailto:vivaohio@h> ...> wrote:
> >  >  > Flavio- Point of Clarification: who is issuing said orders?
>You
> > have
> >  > stated
> >  >  > to me in a personal (?) memorandum that the original SC
>members
> > are in
> >  > fact
> >  >  > still in place.  When will the membership (?) hear from them,
> > and learn
> >  >  > their intentions from them, rather than through a
> > spokesperson?  -Matt
> >  >  >
> >  >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > Above email is for intended recipient only and may be
>confidential
> > and
> >  > protected by attorney/client privilege.
> >  > If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender
> > immediately.
> >  > Unauthorized use or distribution is prohibited and may be
>unlawful.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > _________________________________________________________________
> >  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2422
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-10 20:49:54
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: [nbpcmembers] Re: to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
Message:

"one week after the 9/8 mtg", there were, to be sure, other things suddenly 
at the forefront of discussion.

not for nothing, but "egroup members" interest in the 9/8 mtg is measured, 
in reality, by their attendence (& lack of) at the general mtg.

any requests for information as to what transpired at the mtg certainly wd 
have been answered.  there were none, even by yrself.  odd, no? considering 
the fuss you put up opposing the proposals. this can only be interpreted, 
consistent w/ zofia's announcement, as abandonment of the organization.

subsequent mtgs & events were well publicized & were also abandoned.

you act as if there were a history of posting minutes on egroups.
& membership to an egroup does not necessarily translate to  participation 
in an organization.

next nbpc mtg is 5 january, 2002.  noon, nb public library.
all non (anti)-republicans welcome.

cliff


>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: [nbpcmembers] Re: to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 01:37:51 +0000
>
>
>
>
> >From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
> >Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 04:41:01 -0000
> >
> >Matt,
> >
> >what you call the "old" and what I call the "existing" Steering
> >Committee has been, in the realm of NB politics, recruiting
> >candidates, analyzing issues, helping student voters on election day,
> >making RTK requests, writing LTEs, etc.  All while working on some
> >other non-NBPC projects like their criminal justice project, and
> >engaging in some pro-peace and pro-civil liberties activities.  The
> >basic idea as far as NB is concerned is, as I said previously, is to
> >broaden the progressives' electoral base in a new organizational
> >framework.
> >
> >As far as the issue of suing in court, organizations, corporations,
> >churches, etc. have since time immemorial turned to the courts when
> >one or more faction claimed control.  I don't see the idea of
> >suggesting it to be so out of whack.  That said, I find Keith's idea
> >of setting a mutually agreeable date for a membership meeting to wrap
> >up business is a useful suggestion.
> >
> >I understand you consider the term "liberal legalism" to be a
> >pejorative; I do not.  Two things to consider: (1) this group went
> >into the 2000 election with the purpose of winning an electoral
> >campaign.  The decision to move from street protestors to an
> >effective electoral organization necessarily means engaging in a
> >certain level of legal formalities.  (2) Had Joe told the 58 NBPC
> >members on this egroup about the alleged votes at the September
> >meeting, in September, his case would be much stronger.  A quick
> >email to me  a week after the meeting - or a posting to the group -
> >saying, "Hey, Flav.  At the 9/8 meeting, the members voted out the
> >old Steering Committe and installed X, Y, Z in their place, and also
> >voted to expel registered Republicans.  Joe" would have been
> >immensely more credible than contradictory information presented 2
> >months after the fact, and would have probably swung me to Joe's side
> >of this debate.  Asking Joe to inform the 58 members of this egroup
> >of numerous radical sea changes in the group is not, in my view,
> >asking for unnecessary "legalisms" but just basic communication from
> >leadership to members.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> > > Flavio- Where has the old SC been throughout all of this, if not
> >abandoning
> > > the project out of their own frustrations?  Your assertion that Joe
> >should
> > > sue you in court to resolve the matter shows how out of touch with
> >the
> > > essence of the original organizational mission this liberal
> >legalism is.
> > > That said- I respect that you haven't relinguished your
> >responsibility and
> > > history with the NBPC- which far and away better than some other
> >organizers
> > > tendencies  -Matt
> > >
> > >
> > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
> > > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > To: nbpcmembers@y...
> > > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC General
> >Council
> > > Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 18:38:12 -0000
> > >
> > > Matt,
> > >
> > > the reason I responded privately to you is that I consider the
> >debate
> > > over.  Joe's coup has failed.  My conclusions stand; if Joe wants to
> > > go to court to try and overturn these determinations, he is
> >certainly
> > > free to do so.
> > >
> > > I want you to consider this: Joe's claim is that a number of votes
> > > happened on September 8, i.e. replacement of the Steering Commitee,
> > > explusion of Republicans, etc.  Have you asked yourself - or him -
> > > why he waited until November 12 to tell me these facts, waited until
> > > November 30 to tell the press of these facts, and waited until
> > > December 1 to tell the newsgroup of these facts?  Have you asked
> > > yourself - or him - why, despite no less than six requests, he still
> > > refuses to disclose who he recognizes as the Steering Committee?
> > > Have you asked yourself - or him - why he can't get the dates or
> > > votes straight on any of these things?  You've seen the evidence.
> > >
> > > My job as General Counsel is to represent the entity, not any
> > > individuals, and not any factions.  I did not prejudge Joe's
> > > assertions.  I looked at the evidence and found his story not
> > > credible.  I have to look at actual evidence.  Evidence that is
> > > consistent is something I credit.  Evidence that is inconsistent is
> > > something I do not credit.  That's why I didn't and don't buy his
> > > version of events.  I asked him for credible evidence; he provided
> > > none.  When he hit me, out of the blue, on November 12 with
> > > statements like the SC is abolished, membership from Republicans is
> > > not being accepted (which he lated changed to say existing
> >Republican
> > > members are expelled), I asked for proof.  It's awful hard to
> >believe
> > > someone whose stories keep changing.  But still, I gave him every
> > > opportunity to present some credible explanation - he didn't.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> > >  > Flavio- This is an interesting loop of logic you've gotten
> >yourself
> > > caught
> > >  > up in, but in all your legalistic web you fail to get to the
> >heart
> > > of the
> > >  > matter--that is, the NBPC ceased being an effective oragnization
> >of
> > > the
> > >  > people the moment it was consumed by liberal,sectarian formalism
> >at
> > > the
> > >  > expense of it's original mission as a united front for peoples'
> > > democracy
> > >  > (revolutionary democracy)... some examples of which being the
> > > expulsion of
> > >  > SWORD & permittance of republicanism- there are others... btw,
> >re-
> > > expelling
> > >  > SWORD will not bring you any closer to the people of the city!!
> > >  >
> > >  > & seriously, it is a bit odd that you keep responding to me
> > > personally when
> > >  > I raise questions on a public(members) list....I'm still
> >wondering
> > > what the
> > >  > real intentions of the RED Collective members of the old Steering
> > > Committee
> > >  > are regarding the NBPC. & if they lay claim--which is better than
> > > abandoning
> > >  > the project--then why their absence over the months? I only ask
> >you
> > > because
> > >  > you volunteered to be their spokesperson......Matthew
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  > ----Original Message Follows----
> > >  > From: "Komuves, Flavio" <>
> > >  > To: "Vivaohio@hotmail. com (E-mail)" <vivaohio@h...>
> > >  > Subject: Response to email
> > >  > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:23:29 -0500
> > >  >
> > >  > Matt,
> > >  >
> > >  > I issued the orders.  I have the authority to issue these orders
> >by
> > > virtue
> > >  > of (a) the general authority I possess as the General Counsel to
> > > the entity
> > >  > to protect it against coups and unauthorized uses and dilution of
> > > its name
> > >  > and (b) the specific authorization to issue these orders granted
> >to
> > > me by
> > >  > the Legal Committee of the Steering Committee.
> > >  >
> > >  > I cannot comment about when the full Steering Committee intends
> >to
> > > next
> > >  > issue a statement to its members.
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  > --- In nbpcmembers@y <mailto:nbpcmembers@y> ..., "Matthew Smith"
> ><
> > >  > vivaohio@h <mailto:vivaohio@h> ...> wrote:
> > >  >  > Flavio- Point of Clarification: who is issuing said orders?
> >You
> > > have
> > >  > stated
> > >  >  > to me in a personal (?) memorandum that the original SC
> >members
> > > are in
> > >  > fact
> > >  >  > still in place.  When will the membership (?) hear from them,
> > > and learn
> > >  >  > their intentions from them, rather than through a
> > > spokesperson?  -Matt
> > >  >  >
> > >  >  >
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  > Above email is for intended recipient only and may be
> >confidential
> > > and
> > >  > protected by attorney/client privilege.
> > >  > If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender
> > > immediately.
> > >  > Unauthorized use or distribution is prohibited and may be
> >unlawful.
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  >
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> > >  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
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> > >
> > >
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> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2423
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-11 07:29:52
Subject:Re: Endgame
Message:

go fuck yourself


>From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@...>
>To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>, "joseph smith" 
><can_bush@...>, "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Subject: Endgame
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:24:59 -0500
>
>Keith has made the suggestion of having a meeting on a mutually agreeable 
>date so as to stop this squabbling.  I think the Steering Committee would 
>agree to a date right after the students return, i.e. late Jan. instead of 
>the January 5 date you've selected.  That kind of arrangement could let you 
>guys save face , stop the hemorrhage of members leaving the egroup, and let 
>me turn my attention to more productive things.  If you are interested let 
>me know.
>
>


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2425
Sender:"groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-11 11:29:25
Subject:Re: Endgame
Message:

Joe,

Thanks for your message.  I knew I could count on you to sit down and 
broker a settlement to this conflict like an adult.  Also, thanks for 
replying publicly so everyone can see your level of maturity in 
dealing with this issue.  





--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> go fuck yourself
> 
> 
> >From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> >To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>, "joseph smith" 
> ><can_bush@h...>, "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> >Subject: Endgame
> >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:24:59 -0500
> >
> >Keith has made the suggestion of having a meeting on a mutually 
agreeable 
> >date so as to stop this squabbling.  I think the Steering 
Committee would 
> >agree to a date right after the students return, i.e. late Jan. 
instead of 
> >the January 5 date you've selected.  That kind of arrangement 
could let you 
> >guys save face , stop the hemorrhage of members leaving the 
egroup, and let 
> >me turn my attention to more productive things.  If you are 
interested let 
> >me know.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2426
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-11 18:29:32
Subject:Fwd: Endgame
Message:



>From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@...>
>To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>, "joseph smith" 
><can_bush@...>, "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Subject: Endgame
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:24:59 -0500
>
>Keith has made the suggestion of having a meeting on a mutually agreeable 
>date so as to stop this squabbling.  I think the Steering Committee would 
>agree to a date right after the students return, i.e. late Jan. instead of 
>the January 5 date you've selected.  That kind of arrangement could let you 
>guys save face , stop the hemorrhage of members leaving the egroup, and let 
>me turn my attention to more productive things.  If you are interested let 
>me know.
>
>





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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2427
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-11 18:38:18
Subject:Re: Endgame
Message:

speaking for myself, i have no problem attending a working mtg, if a 
productive agenda is proposed to find some level of unified work.

i have no interest in a mtg whose purpose is to "dissolve" the nbpc, as you 
have announced yr intent to the home news tribune.

i have no interest in mtg w/ any agents of the republican party.

that sd, understand that the nbpc general mtg, as democratically determined 
in open, public mtg, is noon, 5 jan. 2002, nb public library.

the "steering committee" you reference is not the democratically elected 
leadership of the nbpc.

holla back.

cliff

>From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@...>
>To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>, "joseph smith" 
><can_bush@...>, "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Subject: Endgame
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:24:59 -0500
>
>Keith has made the suggestion of having a meeting on a mutually agreeable 
>date so as to stop this squabbling.  I think the Steering Committee would 
>agree to a date right after the students return, i.e. late Jan. instead of 
>the January 5 date you've selected.  That kind of arrangement could let you 
>guys save face , stop the hemorrhage of members leaving the egroup, and let 
>me turn my attention to more productive things.  If you are interested let 
>me know.
>
>







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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2428
Sender:"can_bush" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-11 18:46:50
Subject:Fwd: Re: [nbpcmembers] Re: to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
Message:


 "ought to" is old news.
 
 the nbpc "statement of purpose" was adopted at the 9/8 mtg. you can
 find it on the message board.

 flavio has no authority to order anything except at domino's.
 
furthermore, flavio is in no way "struggling for the nbpc".  he has
 abandoned all responsibility to it, except to attempt to obstruct
 its progress for the stated purpose of "dissolving" it.
 


--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>
> >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >Subject: Re: [nbpcmembers] Re: to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
> >Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:18:53
> >
> >Like I said, Flavio, I find your willingness to struggle for the NBPC far
> >better than abandoning it.  I'll believe others committment to it when I
> >hear it from them, not from you.  I find it strange strange that you are
> >critical of Joe for not posting developments here when this egroup hasn't
> >been utelized by the old SC for months and months....&, while it is a sign
> >of a certain maturing of our movement to struggle in the electoral arena, 
> >to
> >equate this with resolving all of our internal disputes in the courts is
> >nonsense.  Unless we can struggle this out in front of the people and let
> >them determine which line is in their best interest, the NBPC will not have
> >a public mandate & will be reduced to a pissant liberal advocacy 
> >group...not
> >a pajorative, an observation.  We must learn to use the electoral process
> >for the benefit of the peoples' democratic struggle.  To be consumed by it
> >is an error in judgement, and a yielding to the oppressive constructs &
> >mechanisms of bourgeois rule.  For the record, while we're on formalities,
> >whatever by-law gave you the 'right' to issue such and said orders is the
> >first thing that ought to go from the organization.  Formalities aside, I 
> >am
> >interested in hearing your thoughts on the original mission of the NBPC as 
> >a
> >united front. -Matt
> >
> >
> >----Original Message Follows----
> >From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
> >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
> >Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 04:41:01 -0000
> >
> >Matt,
> >
> >what you call the "old" and what I call the "existing" Steering
> >Committee has been, in the realm of NB politics, recruiting
> >candidates, analyzing issues, helping student voters on election day,
> >making RTK requests, writing LTEs, etc.  All while working on some
> >other non-NBPC projects like their criminal justice project, and
> >engaging in some pro-peace and pro-civil liberties activities.  The
> >basic idea as far as NB is concerned is, as I said previously, is to
> >broaden the progressives' electoral base in a new organizational
> >framework.
> >
> >As far as the issue of suing in court, organizations, corporations,
> >churches, etc. have since time immemorial turned to the courts when
> >one or more faction claimed control.  I don't see the idea of
> >suggesting it to be so out of whack.  That said, I find Keith's idea
> >of setting a mutually agreeable date for a membership meeting to wrap
> >up business is a useful suggestion.
> >
> >I understand you consider the term "liberal legalism" to be a
> >pejorative; I do not.  Two things to consider: (1) this group went
> >into the 2000 election with the purpose of winning an electoral
> >campaign.  The decision to move from street protestors to an
> >effective electoral organization necessarily means engaging in a
> >certain level of legal formalities.  (2) Had Joe told the 58 NBPC
> >members on this egroup about the alleged votes at the September
> >meeting, in September, his case would be much stronger.  A quick
> >email to me  a week after the meeting - or a posting to the group -
> >saying, "Hey, Flav.  At the 9/8 meeting, the members voted out the
> >old Steering Committe and installed X, Y, Z in their place, and also
> >voted to expel registered Republicans.  Joe" would have been
> >immensely more credible than contradictory information presented 2
> >months after the fact, and would have probably swung me to Joe's side
> >of this debate.  Asking Joe to inform the 58 members of this egroup
> >of numerous radical sea changes in the group is not, in my view,
> >asking for unnecessary "legalisms" but just basic communication from
> >leadership to members.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> >  > Flavio- Where has the old SC been throughout all of this, if not
> >abandoning
> >  > the project out of their own frustrations?  Your assertion that Joe
> >should
> >  > sue you in court to resolve the matter shows how out of touch with
> >the
> >  > essence of the original organizational mission this liberal
> >legalism is.
> >  > That said- I respect that you haven't relinguished your
> >responsibility and
> >  > history with the NBPC- which far and away better than some other
> >organizers
> >  > tendencies  -Matt
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > ----Original Message Follows----
> >  > From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@y...>
> >  > Reply-To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >  > To: nbpcmembers@y...
> >  > Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC General
> >Council
> >  > Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 18:38:12 -0000
> >  >
> >  > Matt,
> >  >
> >  > the reason I responded privately to you is that I consider the
> >debate
> >  > over.  Joe's coup has failed.  My conclusions stand; if Joe wants to
> >  > go to court to try and overturn these determinations, he is
> >certainly
> >  > free to do so.
> >  >
> >  > I want you to consider this: Joe's claim is that a number of votes
> >  > happened on September 8, i.e. replacement of the Steering Commitee,
> >  > explusion of Republicans, etc.  Have you asked yourself - or him -
> >  > why he waited until November 12 to tell me these facts, waited until
> >  > November 30 to tell the press of these facts, and waited until
> >  > December 1 to tell the newsgroup of these facts?  Have you asked
> >  > yourself - or him - why, despite no less than six requests, he still
> >  > refuses to disclose who he recognizes as the Steering Committee?
> >  > Have you asked yourself - or him - why he can't get the dates or
> >  > votes straight on any of these things?  You've seen the evidence.
> >  >
> >  > My job as General Counsel is to represent the entity, not any
> >  > individuals, and not any factions.  I did not prejudge Joe's
> >  > assertions.  I looked at the evidence and found his story not
> >  > credible.  I have to look at actual evidence.  Evidence that is
> >  > consistent is something I credit.  Evidence that is inconsistent is
> >  > something I do not credit.  That's why I didn't and don't buy his
> >  > version of events.  I asked him for credible evidence; he provided
> >  > none.  When he hit me, out of the blue, on November 12 with
> >  > statements like the SC is abolished, membership from Republicans is
> >  > not being accepted (which he lated changed to say existing
> >Republican
> >  > members are expelled), I asked for proof.  It's awful hard to
> >believe
> >  > someone whose stories keep changing.  But still, I gave him every
> >  > opportunity to present some credible explanation - he didn't.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > --- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> >  >  > Flavio- This is an interesting loop of logic you've gotten
> >yourself
> >  > caught
> >  >  > up in, but in all your legalistic web you fail to get to the
> >heart
> >  > of the
> >  >  > matter--that is, the NBPC ceased being an effective oragnization
> >of
> >  > the
> >  >  > people the moment it was consumed by liberal,sectarian formalism
> >at
> >  > the
> >  >  > expense of it's original mission as a united front for peoples'
> >  > democracy
> >  >  > (revolutionary democracy)... some examples of which being the
> >  > expulsion of
> >  >  > SWORD & permittance of republicanism- there are others... btw,
> >re-
> >  > expelling
> >  >  > SWORD will not bring you any closer to the people of the city!!
> >  >  >
> >  >  > & seriously, it is a bit odd that you keep responding to me
> >  > personally when
> >  >  > I raise questions on a public(members) list....I'm still
> >wondering
> >  > what the
> >  >  > real intentions of the RED Collective members of the old Steering
> >  > Committee
> >  >  > are regarding the NBPC. & if they lay claim--which is better than
> >  > abandoning
> >  >  > the project--then why their absence over the months? I only ask
> >you
> >  > because
> >  >  > you volunteered to be their spokesperson......Matthew
> >  >  >
> >  >  >
> >  >  >
> >  >  >
> >  >  > ----Original Message Follows----
> >  >  > From: "Komuves, Flavio" <>
> >  >  > To: "Vivaohio@hotmail. com (E-mail)" <vivaohio@h...>
> >  >  > Subject: Response to email
> >  >  > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:23:29 -0500
> >  >  >
> >  >  > Matt,
> >  >  >
> >  >  > I issued the orders.  I have the authority to issue these orders
> >by
> >  > virtue
> >  >  > of (a) the general authority I possess as the General Counsel to
> >  > the entity
> >  >  > to protect it against coups and unauthorized uses and dilution of
> >  > its name
> >  >  > and (b) the specific authorization to issue these orders granted
> >to
> >  > me by
> >  >  > the Legal Committee of the Steering Committee.
> >  >  >
> >  >  > I cannot comment about when the full Steering Committee intends
> >to
> >  > next
> >  >  > issue a statement to its members.
> >  >  >
> >  >  >
> >  >  >
> >  >  > --- In nbpcmembers@y <mailto:nbpcmembers@y> ..., "Matthew Smith"
> ><
> >  >  > vivaohio@h <mailto:vivaohio@h> ...> wrote:
> >  >  >  > Flavio- Point of Clarification: who is issuing said orders?
> >You
> >  > have
> >  >  > stated
> >  >  >  > to me in a personal (?) memorandum that the original SC
> >members
> >  > are in
> >  >  > fact
> >  >  >  > still in place.  When will the membership (?) hear from them,
> >  > and learn
> >  >  >  > their intentions from them, rather than through a
> >  > spokesperson?  -Matt
> >  >  >  >
> >  >  >  >
> >  >  >
> >  >  >
> >  >  >
> >  >  > Above email is for intended recipient only and may be
> >confidential
> >  > and
> >  >  > protected by attorney/client privilege.
> >  >  > If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender
> >  > immediately.
> >  >  > Unauthorized use or distribution is prohibited and may be
> >unlawful.
> >  >  >
> >  >  >
> >  >  >
> >  >  > _________________________________________________________________
> >  >  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> >  > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  > nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >nbpcmembers-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2429
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-11 18:56:51
Subject:j&j (thru DevCo) cannibalizes Crossroads
Message:

    "We are very confident that Crossroads, the theater, will be a vibrant 
part of the cultural center. I am hoping that the Crossroads organization is 
up and running and that it's presenting again, but sans that, that building 
will be an important part of the cultural experience," Paladino said.


               Devco gets role in operating State Theatre

               Published in the Home News Tribune 12/11/01

               By LAURIE GRANIERI
               STAFF WRITER
               NEW BRUNSWICK: The State Theatre will become a separate 
entity in a reorganization of the New Brunswick Cultural Center that was 
more than two years in the making.

               Under the new plan, the New Brunswick Development Corp., or 
Devco, will provide the Cultural Center with management and  administrative 
support.

               A reconstituted Cultural Center board of directors has been 
established, and it includes some key players in the city's revitalization: 
George Zoffinger, chairman of Devco; Ralph Voorhees; John Heldrich, a 
Johnson & Johnson executive who was instrumental in forming Devco and New 
Brunswick Tomorrow; Tom Kelso, and John Varley.

               Devco was created in 1976 to turn New Brunswick's blighted 
city blocks into a commercial and cultural hub by drawing businesses and 
development into the downtown area. Its role in the city has continued to 
expand: Earlier this year, it took over management of City Market, the 
downtown's special-improvement district.

               The New Brunswick Cultural Center owns the George Street 
Playhouse and Crossroads Theatre Company buildings on Livingston Avenue, and 
it holds a lease on the State Theatre from Middlesex County. American 
Repertory Ballet, housed in Kilmer Square, a building owned by Devco, also 
is a member company of the Cultural Center.

               The Cultural Center oversees capital improvements and 
maintenance, from new theater marquees to landscaping.

               Like its other constituents, the State Theatre now will have 
an independent board to make decisions and raise money. Previously, the 
theater was run directly by the cultural center.

               "The State Theatre would now become a tenant in a building, 
allowing them to focus (on art)," said Devco President Christopher J. 
Paladino. "They spent a lot of time worrying about utilitarian things."

               Devco's role in the Cultural Center will be primarily 
managerial, Paladino said, overseeing capital improvements.

               Paladino said board members are touring each building "closet 
by closet, roof by roof, doing an evaluation of (their) condition" to 
formulate a maintenance plan and determine how the space might be utilized 
most efficiently. (For instance, ARB, which is short on office space, may 
use available space at another member company's building.)

               Paladino also said he plans to encourage more collaboration 
between the Cultural Center and its Livingston Avenue neighbor, Mason Gross 
School of the Arts.

               In addition, he said, the Cultural Center is considering 
creating "hooks," collaborative efforts between theaters and other downtown 
businesses, such as last summer's "Ultimate Date Night," in which the State 
Theatre paired up with city restaurants to offer movies at the theater and 
discounts at the restaurants. Paladino estimated 250-300 people attended the 
series each week.

               The Cultural Center will "absolutely not" make programming 
decisions for any member company, Paladino said, and it will not fund-raise.

               ARB's $300,000 deficit prompted the company to cut four 
dancers from its roster, effective next month. Meanwhile, the Tony 
Award-winning Crossroads Theatre Company, considered by many to have been 
the nation's premier black theater company, closed in Sept. 2000, citing a 
$2 million debt.

               The Cultural Center plans to use Crossroads' 310-seat theater 
as a performance venue, although Paladino added the Cultural Center would 
not use it in "any way that impairs their ability to be back to running a 
full season."

               "We are very confident that Crossroads, the theater, will be 
a vibrant part of the cultural center. I am hoping that the Crossroads 
organization is up and running and that it's presenting again, but sans 
that, that building will be an important part of the cultural experience," 
Paladino said.

               Laurie Granieri: (732) 565-7333. E-mail granieri@...

               from the Home News Tribune

               Published: December 11, 2001



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2430
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-11 21:34:48
Subject:ProLibertad Holiday Gathering!!
Message:

JOIN PROLIBERTAD ON SATURDAY DEC. 15TH, 2001 FOR OUR HOLIDAY GATHERING!!

Help us raise money for the Puerto Rican Political Prisoner Commissary 
Fund!!  We will have FUN, MUSIC, FOOD, DANCING AND AUCTIONS!!  We will also 
do a special collection to raise money for the bail of the recently arrested 
activists in Philadelphia (The Mumia demo. on Dec. 8th).

Please join us in making the holidays special for the Puerto Rican Political 
prisoners!!

When: Saturday Dec. 15th, 2001 at 7pm
Where: The Brecht Forum 122 w27th St. (between 6th-7th Avenues)on the 10th 
floor.
DONATION: $10 (but no one will be turned away)

For more info. contact ProLibertad at proLibertad@..., Bronx 
718-601-4751, Manhattan 212-927-9065, and New Jersey 201-435-3244.  Check 
out our site www.ProLibertad.org

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2431
Sender:"Tamara Dahan" <tamaradahan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-11 21:35:17
Subject:Re: Final conclusions...
Message:

matt,
that doesn't sound like "respect" to me. what should joe have done? accept a 
plea-deal that says he's guilty when we are fighting the city machine right 
now and are headed into new elections. how are we supposed to organize and 
win through admissions of guilt. they stood their ground which is more than 
you did begging for a plea as soon as you walked in the door. what kind of 
unity does that show?  i also told joe he shouldn't take the plea. do you 
have some snide comments for my motives too? are you saying that cliff 
should have delivered himself into the hands of the city like you did, cause 
"he walked"?  and you're right about santos, but it was evident from the 
start that he was sold out to the machine.  best not to snuggle up to the 
enemy then, and seek his representation when he illegally refuses to 
represent joe and cliff. but then again you made clear from the begining 
that these were "separate cases". right.

tamara


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com
>To: coalitionforjustice@yahoogroups.com, nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com, 
>nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [coalitionforjustice] Re: Final conclusions...
>Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 23:02:15
>
>Joe- I'm not going to get into a major debate with you over this court
>issue- you made your own decisions & I told you at the time that I would
>respect what you decide--even though my advise was to take the final plea.
>But you're deluding yourself about the outcome, and what taking a plea 
>would
>have implied about your integrity as an organizer, or how it would have
>affected peoples' perception of you.  It's a mistake that's crippled you 
>for
>30 days & 1 year, at the advise of Cliff.
>
>But you're right about one thing- when I read the SL article, & realized
>that the cop was a no-show, I was kicking myself for not pleading innocent.
>(I guess it was beyond Santos to raise it)
>
>
>
> >Ironic, though, since it was your own brother & closest organizational &
> >ideological partner, Cliff, whose advise led you to take 30 days 
>community
> >service & a year's probation instead of accepting a plea for a minor
> >misdemeanor while he walked...
>
>100% better than for me to plead guilty - which you did for no reason at
>all. even the papers recognized that there was no evidence offered against
>you.
>
> >have you given much thought to this over the past few days?  That's 30
> >days--or 6 work weeks--that you won't be able to organize. (Then for him 
>to
> >claim that "nobody is any better or worse off" for the risk of trial than
> >taking the plea!...) hey- just trying to lend some perspective.
>
>i have already gotten much support over the guilty verdict.
>how much support do you think the campaign would have gotten if i pled
>guilty?
>
> >--it ain't me, babe.... MS
>
>no shit.-joe
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>










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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2432
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-13 08:28:35
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: British Life Is Fractured Along Racial Lines, a Study Finds
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


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British Life Is Fractured Along Racial Lines, a Study Finds

December 12, 2001 

By WARREN HOGE


A government report said that whites and ethnic minorities
in Britain were leading separate lives with no contact and
no sense of belonging to the same nation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/12/international/europe/12BRIT.html?ex=1009250115&ei=1&en=8d6f43d6eb78c0c7



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help@....  

Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2433
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-13 11:26:23
Subject:Mural features cultural leaders' portraits
Message:

Mural features cultural leaders' portraits

                     12/13/01

                     BY DIANE C. WALSH
                     STAR-LEDGER STAFF

    No fewer than 50 artists, children, neighbors and community leaders have 
picked up brushes in the past few months to add their touches to a 36-foot 
mural in New Brunswick.

    The larger-than-life artwork is a product of the People's Community Arts 
Mural Project of New Brunswick. It decorates a wall of the Tiny Tots Spot 
child care center run by Ebenezer Baptist Church on Lee Avenue.

    "It gives the community a voice," said one of the organizers, Tamara 
Dahan. "It brightens up the area, discourages the graffiti artists and 
enables people to come together."

    The first community mural was done in 2000 on Throop Avenue, along a 
wall near an apartment complex. Its theme was police brutality.

    For the second work, the nonprofit Mural Project participants chose 
several themes, including community access to higher education and the need 
for recreational facilities.

    Shalonda Tanner, a young mother who got involved when her son, Wesley, 
brought home a flier from school, was inspired to see local youngsters work 
on the project. "It was wonderful to see them actually being creative and 
see them brainstorm," she said.

    Planning and design of the mural began last summer. It features 
portraits of cultural and historical figures who have worked for and 
contributed to positive change in their communities, such as famed jazz 
musician James P. Johnson from New Brunswick, farm workers leader Dolores 
Huerta, baseball great Roberto Clemente, Malcolm X and Sojourner Truth.

    Local images, such as the recently demolished Memorial Homes, have also 
been incorporated into the piece.

    The Middlesex County Cultural and Heritage Commission awarded the Mural 
Project a grant to help create the work. The Chai Project of New Brunswick 
also offered assistance.

    The community has been working on the project every weekend for the past 
few months, weather permitting. But Tanner said the cold weather would 
probably delay completion until spring.

    Already, the group is working on next summer's project. One of the 
founders, Joseph Smith, said it's becoming a staple in the community. "It 
brings the whole neighborhood together. Everyone who walks by spends a few 
minutes with us. We're building bridges into the community."

    Diane C. Walsh covers Middlesex County government. She can be
    reached at (732) 634-4308 or by e-mail at dwalsh@....




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Post ID:2434
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-13 14:16:05
Subject:Re: To Flavio, GC-NBPC
Message:

matt, etal-

this position is entirely sound. especially because it takes a view of 
reality that extends beyond nb and simple opposition to "Democrats". i am 
glad you got to the hnt article in which flavio &co. state their intentions 
to "dissolve" the nbpc.

i think there needs to be a little more development of the danger of the 
"fascist beast", partly to say that the open form of this fascism is led by 
the u.s. republican party, and that the heart of the struggle over the nbpc 
is the question of whether or not to ally w/ agents of this enemy party.

we, the "extremists", oppose uniting with republicans, and state our view of 
such a united front on that basis.  we welcome the involvement of anyone 
else.

i stated in reply to flavio's echo of keith's invitation to meet (flavio 
censors my posts to nbpcmembers & sends them back "rejected") that, for 
myself, i am open to any working meeting which has a productive agenda, 
provided republican agents are excluded.  i have not heard a response.

cliff


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>To: flavio.komuves@...
>CC: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com, keithjoseph@..., amirib@..., 
>lknesta@..., can_bush@..., cliffsmith69@...
>Subject: To Flavio, GC-NBPC
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:10:20
>
>
>It's simple, Flavio- Like Keith said, you're perspective is not without 
>bias towards a particular faction- You haven't been acting with the 
>interest of the NBPC as a UNITED FRONT in mind (its original mission)  You 
>have been speaking voluntarily on behalf of an absentee "Steering 
>Committee" that, from quite reliable accounts, was recalled by a general 
>body that DID convene.  And, according to the Dec. 4 Home News article, 
>that I'm sorry to say that I did not read until recently, you are quoted as 
>saying that your intention is to fold the NBPC & create a new body- if this 
>is so, then the only conclusion left is that you have come back into the 
>NBPC (on your own behalf of your own time invested, &/or on behalf of 
>others) in order to 'formally' end it...may I speculate to your reasoning: 
>that it's good name not be squandered by the "extremists".  Sound 
>reasonable?  Let me make my postion quite clear:  I don't give a good god 
>damn what you call it- we need a united front to beat back this fascist 
>beast that has made it very clear that they intend on reviving cointelpro, 
>formally, and has already begun destoying organizations here for the crime 
>of being Muslim, or associated with the life & death struggles of oppressed 
>peoples in the arab world.  All your legalistic manuevering misses this 
>objective entirely, and once again does little to nothing to win over the 
>hearts and minds of the people of NB.  With respect to your dedication to 
>this project, unless the ends are ammended, then all this debate about the 
>means is a waste of time.
>
>That said, I think you've entirely overreached your role as General Council 
>& are acting more like General Kumoves.
>
>This is all on the *one* hand...& again, as Keith said, their is another 
>that responds with "fuck you" to overures to sit down at the same table, or 
>"your an ass", help me out....
>
>-Matthew
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@...>
>To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:54:42 -0500
>
>Matt,
>
>give me a break... I've let everyone have their say; I've let through stuff 
>calling me personally a "liar," "jackass" and worse.  I'm still trying to 
>set some standards; the unofficial nbpeoplescampaign is there for 
>everything else.
>
>On another note, I am genuinely interested in hearing your views about why 
>I shouldn't have authority to put down coups, write  cease-and-desist 
>letters, authorize and coordinate litigation, write press releases, etc.  I 
>think an electoral group has to have leaders authorized to act quickly 
>where the situation warrants it instead of waiting for the admittedly more 
>democractic general meetings to debate things.  E.g., last September, when 
>we decided to sue the county clerk for the confusing school board question, 
>X and Frank authorized that summarily on my recommendation.  Or, in 
>response to the housing ordinance (last April), the SC formulated a 
>position, went and spoke out against it, all without a general meeting.
>
>Is it your position that only steering committee members (as opposed to 
>appointed people  like myself) should have this power - or should it all 
>wait for a general meeting?  Assume for the sake of argument that Joe, 
>Frank Bright, or anyone else, sends out an unauthorized press release.  Is 
>it only a Steering Committee member personally who can stop him?  Are they 
>not allowed to delegate that power to another?
>
>Flav
>
>
>





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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2435
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-13 14:26:48
Subject:why keith is an ass
Message:

my comments are underneath, refering to this message from keith:

--- In njfo@y..., Louise Ammentorp <lknesta@i...> wrote:

>"  when they (Greens) sense their
>increasing unpopularity." Cliff Smith

Odd, this sense of "increasing unpopularity" doesn't usually seem to have 
any effect on people's political lines.

Keith

--- End forwarded message ---



keith you are an ass because of yourself, don't blame me for pointing it 
out!

this is what keith has no time for? maybe he can explain...
this was written on 11/18/01 when keith didn't "have a million better things 
to do".

this is a weak jab at cliff because keith has thrown cliff out of every 
organization they have participated in. but yet cliff, though isolated 
organizationally, has constantly emerged with the correct political 
line/analysis.

keith doesn't understand that a movement is not an organization that you can 
throw people out of, it is the practical results of the peoples political 
development. this is why KEITH IS SO BACKWARDS THAT HE NOT ONLY SABATOGED 
U&S FOR THE SECOND TIME, HE REGISTERED HIMSELF REPUBLICAN AS A CANDIDATE FOR 
CITY COUNCIL NOV2002.

keith still does not understand the simple mathmatics of organizing! cliff's 
work brought 2994 votes for an elected school board, what is unpopular about 
that? nothing, except that is not what keith is looking at. keith is looking 
at the fact that he & others will not work with cliff and therefore why 
won't cliff go away based on his "unpopularity". -joe

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2436
Sender:"can_bush" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-13 14:52:03
Subject:why flavio can go fuck himself
Message:

nbpc does not need to meet with flavio to save face. 
flavio must recognize that nbpc is an organization that has abolished 
the republican allied steering committee. as long as flavio wants to 
act as though this has not happened & i "have no credibility", though 
he was told by numerous people, he can go fuck himself. 

flavio, in order to show his understanding, must send a press release 
explaining his recognition of the nbpc's general body decisions of 
sept8 and send it to sharon waters & mike reilly & confirm that they 
have received it. 

flavio &co. if you want to participate with the nbpc, then do it. if 
you do not want to participate with the organization, then don't. -joe

nbpc 2002
unite the many, defeat the few!
nb public library 12:00 noon
5 january 2002

--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:

 go fuck yourself
 


From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@a...>
To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>, "joseph smith" 
<can_bush@h...>, "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
Subject: Endgame
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:24:59 -0500

Keith has made the suggestion of having a meeting on a mutually 
agreeable date so as to stop this squabbling. I think the Steering 
Committee would agree to a date right after the students return, i.e. 
late Jan. instead of the January 5 date you've selected. That kind of 
arrangement could let you guys save face , stop the hemorrhage of 
members leaving the egroup, and let me turn my attention to more 
productive things. If you are interested let me know.

--- End forwarded message ---








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2437
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-13 16:26:47
Subject:mao on negotiations
Message:

On the Chungking Negotiations
Oct. 17, 1945

Let us talk about the present situation.  That is what our comrades are 
interested in.  This time the negotiations between the Kuomintang and the 
Communist Party at Chungking have lasted forty-three days.  The results have 
already been published in the newspapers.  The representatives of the two 
parties are continuing to negotiate.  The negotiations have borne fruit.  
The Kuomintang has accepted the principles of peace and unity, recognized 
certain democratic rights of the people and agreed that civil war should be 
averted and that the two parties should co-operated in peace to build a new 
China.  On these points agreement has been reached.  There are other points 
on which there is no agreement.  The question of the Liberated Areas has not 
been solved either.  The agreements reached are still only on paper.  Words 
on paper are not equivalent to reality.  Facts have shown that a very great 
effort must still be made before they can be turned into reality.

The Kuomintang is negotiating with us on the one hand, and is vigorously 
attacking the Liberated Areas on the other hand.  Not counting the forces 
surrounding the Shensi-Kansu-Ningsia Border Region, 800,000 Kuomintang 
troops are already directly engaged in these attacks.  Wherever there are 
Liberated Areas, fighting is going on or being prepared.  The very first 
article of the "October 10th Agreement" is on "peace and national 
reconstruction"; don't these words on paper contradict reality?  Yes, they 
do.  That is why we say it still requires effort on our part to turn what is 
on paper into reality.  Why does the Kuomintang mobilize so many troops to 
attack us?  Because long ago it made up its mind to wipe out the people's 
forces, to wipe us out.  Best of all, it would like to wipe us out quickly 
or, failing that, to worsen our situation and improve its own.  Peace, 
though written into the agreement, has not in fact been realized.  In places 
like the Shangtang area in Shansi Province there is fighting on a fairly 
large scale.  The Shangtang area, rimmed by the Taihang, Taiyueh and 
Chungtiao Mountains, is like a tub.  This tub contains fish and meat, and 
Yen Hsi-shan sent thirteen divisions to grab it.  Our policy also was set 
long ago--to give tit for tat, to fight for every inch of land.  This time 
we gave tit for tat, fought and made a good job of it.  In other words, we 
wiped out all thirteen divisions.  Their attacking forces had 38,000 men, 
and we employed 31,000 men.  Of their 38,000 men, 35,000 were destroyed, 
2,000 fled and 1,000 scattered.  Such fighting will continue.  They want 
desperately to grab our Liberated Areas.  This seems hard to explain.  Whu 
are they so anxious to grab?  Isn't it good for the Liberated Areas to be in 
our hands, in the hands of the people?  Yes, but that is only what we think, 
what the people think.  If they thought so, too, there would be unity and we 
would all be "comrades".  But they can't see why they shouldn't oppose us.  
It is quite natural that they should attack us.  For uor part, we can't see 
why we should let them seize our Liberated Areas.  It is also quite natural 
that we should counter-attack.  When two "can't-see-whys" come together, 
they fight.  Since there are two can't-see-whys, why have they negotiated?  
And why have they concluded the "October 10th Agreement"?  In this world, 
things are complicated and are decided by many factors.  We should look at 
problems from different aspects, not from just one.  In Chungking some 
people think that Chiang Kai-shek is unreliable and deceitful ant that 
negotiations with him can lead nowhere.  So I was told my many people I met, 
including some members of the Kuomintang.  I told them that what they said 
was justified and well-founded and that we were firmly convinced by eighteen 
years of experience that this would be the case.  The Kuomintang and the 
Communist Party are sure to fail in their negotiations, sure to start 
fighting and sure to break with each other, but that is only one aspect of 
the matter.  Another aspect is that many other factors are bound to make 
Chiang Kai-shek have misgivings.  Among these factors, the three main ones 
are the might of the Liberated Areas, the opposition to civil war by the 
people in the Great Rear Area, and the international situation.  In our 
Liberated Areas there are 100 million people, one million troops and two 
million poeple's militia, a force no one dares to belittle.  Our Party's 
place in the nation's political life is no longer what it was in 1927, nor 
what it was in 1937.  The Kuomintang, which has always refused to recognize 
the equal status of the Communist Party, is now forced to do so.  Our work 
in the Liberated Areas has already influenced all China and the whole world. 
  The people in the Great Rear Area desire peace and need democracy.  When 
in Chungking, I had a profound sense of the warm support given us by the 
broad masses of the people.  They are dissatisfied with the Kuomintang 
government and place their hopes on us.  I also met many foreigners, 
including Americans, who sympathize with us.  The broad masses of the people 
in foreign countries are dissatisfied with the Chinese people's forces.  
They also dissaprove of Chiang Kai-shek's policies.  Whe have many friends 
in all parts of the country and of the world; we are not isolated.  Those 
who oppose civil war in China and stand for peace and democracy include not 
only the people in our Liberated Areas but also the masses in the Great Rear 
Area and throughout the world.  The subjective desire of Chiang Kai-shek is 
to maintain his dictatorship and destroy the Communist Party, but many 
objective difficulties stand in his way.  Therefore, he has to be a little 
realistic.  He is being realistic in inviting us and we were realistic in 
going to negotiate with him.  We arrived in Chungking on August 28.  On the 
evening of the 29th, I told the Kuomintang representatives that the country 
needed peace and unity ever since the September 18th Incident in 1931.  We 
had asked for peace and unity, but they had not materialized.  Peace and 
unity materialized only after the Sian Incident of 1936 before the outbreak 
of the War of Resistance on July 7, 1937.  During the eight years of that 
war we fought together against Japan.  But civil war never stopped; there 
were continuous frictions, big and small.  To say there was no civil war is 
deception and does not square with the facts.  In the pat eight years we 
repeatedly expressed our willingness to negotiate.  At the Seventh Congress 
of our Party we declared that "we are willing to resume negotiations with 
the Kuomintang authorities as soon as they are willing to renounce their 
present erroneous policies and agree to democratic reforms".  In the 
negotiations we declared that, first, China needs peace and, second, China 
needs democracy.  Chiang Kai-shek could find no reason to object and had to 
agree.  On the one hand, the policy of peace and the agreements on democracy 
published in the "Summary of Conversations" are words on paper and not yet 
reality; on the other hand, they have been determined by a variety of 
forces.  The forces of the people in the Liberated Areas, the forces of the 
people in the Great Rear Area, the international situation--the general 
trend has forced the Kuomintang to accept these things.

How to give "tit for tat" depends on the situation.  Sometimes, not going to 
negotiations is tit-for-tat; and sometimes, going to negotiations is also 
tit-for-tat.  We were right not to go before, and also right to go this 
time; in both cases we have given tit for tat.  We did well to go this time, 
for we exploded the rumour spread by the Kuomintang that the Communist Party 
did not want peace and unity.  They sent three successive telegrams to 
invite us, and we went.  But they were totally unprepared, and we had to 
make all the proposals.  As a result of the negotiations, the Kuomintang has 
accepted the general policy of peace and unity.  That's fine.  If the 
Kuomintang launches civil war again, it will put itself in the wrong in the 
eyes of the whole nation and the whole world, and we shall have all the more 
reason to smash its attacks by a war of self-defence.  Now that the "October 
10th Agreement" has been concluded, our task is to continue to strive for 
peace.  If they fight, we will wipe them out completely.  This is the way 
things are: if they attack and we wipe them out, they will have that 
satisfaction; wipe out some, some satisfaction; wipe out more, more 
satisfaction; wipe out the whole lot, complete satisfaction.  China's 
problems are complicated and our brains must also be a little complicated.  
If they start fighting, we fight back, fight to win peace.  Peace will not 
come unless we strike hard blows at the reactionaries who dare to attack the 
Liberated Areas...

The above is what I want to say to the comrades about the present situation. 
  Its development shows many contradictions.  In the negotiations between 
the Kuomintang and our Party, why is there agreement on some questions and 
not on others?  Why does the "Summary of Conversations" speak of peace and 
unity, while fighting is actually going on?  Some comrades just can't 
understand such contradictions.  What I have said is meant to answer these 
questions.  Some comrades can't understand why we should be willing to 
negotiate with Chiang Kai-shek, who has always been anti-Communist and 
against the people.  Was our party right or wrong in deciding at its Seventh 
Congress that we were willing to negotiate with the Kuomintang, provided 
they changed their policy?  It was absolutely right.  The Chinese revolution 
is a long one and victory can only be won step by step.  China's future 
depends on our exertions.  We must redouble our efforts to make it develop 
in a direction favourable to the people of the whole country.




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2438
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-13 16:38:47
Subject:Black Boy
Message:

by Richard Wright

At the age of twelve, before I had had one full year of formal schooling, I 
had a conception of life that no experience would ever erase, a predilection 
for what was real that no argument could ever gainsay, a sense of the world 
that was mine and mine alone, a notion as to what life meant that no 
education could ever alter, a conviction that the meaning of living came 
only when one was struggling to wring a meaning out of meaningless 
suffering.

At the age of twelve I had an attitude toward life that was to endure, that 
was to make me seek those areas of living that would keep it alive, that was 
to make me skeptical of everything while seeking everything, tolerant of all 
and yet critical.  The spirit I had caught gave me insight into the 
sufferings of others, made me gravitate toward those whose feelings were 
like my own, made me sit for hours while others told me of their lives, made 
me strangely tender and cruel, violent and peaceful.

It made me want to drive coldly to the heart of every question and lay it 
open to the core of suffering I knew I would find there.  It made me love 
burrowing into psychology, into realistic and naturalistic fiction and art, 
into those whirlpools of politics that had the power to claim the whole of 
men's souls.  It directed my loyalties to the side of men in rebellion; it 
made me love talk that sought answers to questions that could help nobody, 
that could only keep alive in me that enthralling sense of wonder and awe in 
the face of the drama of human feeling which is hidden by the external drama 
of life.




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2439
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-13 16:57:24
Subject:Fwd: Cease and desist, redux
Message:



>From: Groove Meister <groovemeister007@...>
>To: can_bush@...
>Subject: Cease and desist, redux
>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:11:19 -0800 (PST)
>
>Joe:
>
>Unlike most members of the New Brunswick People's
>Campaign, you seem either genuinely uninterested in
>winning elections in 2002 or utterly incapable of
>developing a strategy to do so.  You like your slogans
>and your Republican-bashing but have no coherent plan
>to displace the mayor and city council incumbents from
>office with progressive candidates dedicated to
>serving all communities in New Brunswick.  The members
>of the Campaign, in contrast, have that as their goal.
>  All you give a damn about is having a forum to spew
>your incoherent slogans.
>
>I am duty-bound to serve the organization and not any
>particular faction.  I gave you the opportunity to
>present evidence that the Steering Committee
>consisting of of Xavier, Tom, Julie, Eryn, Curtis, and
>Danny was abolished.  You presented no credible
>evidence.  In particular, among other things: (a) Your
>statements about the alleged vote(s) were grossly
>inconsistent as to time and content; (b) The
>information was not timely disclosed, but only
>disclosed when you saw an opportunity to claim
>political advantage; (c) More recently, you claimed to
>have relied on statements made by Zofia "as a
>representative of the Steering Committee" at the
>September 8 meeting when you knew that she hadn't been
>on the Steering Committee since at least July; (d) You
>have been asked at least a dozen times to identify who
>you recognize as the Steering Committee, and you have
>consistently refused.
>
>Your putsch, your coup, has been put down by the
>established leadership of the group.  You have failed
>in taking over the group.  The NBPC is led by the
>Steering Committee I have outlined above and not by
>you.  I would invite you to leave the organization if
>you: (a) Do not recognize that Steering Committee as
>the leadership or (b) Deny that the principles adopted
>at the June 30, 2001 meeting are the principles of the
>Campaign.  You still have your mural project, BOL, and
>SWORD to run, don't you?   I mean - do you really have
>the time for this?
>
>I will treat your expletives toward me as a rejection
>of our offer to enter into discussions to settle our
>disputes.  Rather, I will again ask and direct that
>you cease and desist from unauthorized use of the New
>Brunswick People's Campaign name or from public
>misstatements of its leadership or its policies
>(including on this egroup).  I would invite you to
>confess your error to Mr. Reilly and Ms. Waters,
>instead of asking me to retract my statements.
>
>You have been warned.  I will not allow you to use
>your self-serving nonsense to undermine progressive
>work in New Brunswick.  Be guided accordingly.
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
>your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
>or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com





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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2440
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-13 17:43:39
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Fwd: Cease and desist, redux
Message:

flavio,

regardless yr opinion, there were 17 witnesses at the 8 september meeting 
who can verify the decision to replace the steering committee and develop 
the Statement of Purpose as 'Peoples' Democracy' and anti-Republican.

who are your witnesses that this did not happen?

like it or not, democracy rules the nbpc.

cliff


>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, nbpcmembers@egroups.com, 
>amirib@..., keithjoseph99@..., vivaohio@..., 
>carlosdelorbe@...
>Subject: [nbpc] Fwd: Cease and desist, redux
>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:57:24 -0500
>
>
>
>
> >From: Groove Meister <groovemeister007@...>
> >To: can_bush@...
> >Subject: Cease and desist, redux
> >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:11:19 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >Joe:
> >
> >Unlike most members of the New Brunswick People's
> >Campaign, you seem either genuinely uninterested in
> >winning elections in 2002 or utterly incapable of
> >developing a strategy to do so.  You like your slogans
> >and your Republican-bashing but have no coherent plan
> >to displace the mayor and city council incumbents from
> >office with progressive candidates dedicated to
> >serving all communities in New Brunswick.  The members
> >of the Campaign, in contrast, have that as their goal.
> >  All you give a damn about is having a forum to spew
> >your incoherent slogans.
> >
> >I am duty-bound to serve the organization and not any
> >particular faction.  I gave you the opportunity to
> >present evidence that the Steering Committee
> >consisting of of Xavier, Tom, Julie, Eryn, Curtis, and
> >Danny was abolished.  You presented no credible
> >evidence.  In particular, among other things: (a) Your
> >statements about the alleged vote(s) were grossly
> >inconsistent as to time and content; (b) The
> >information was not timely disclosed, but only
> >disclosed when you saw an opportunity to claim
> >political advantage; (c) More recently, you claimed to
> >have relied on statements made by Zofia "as a
> >representative of the Steering Committee" at the
> >September 8 meeting when you knew that she hadn't been
> >on the Steering Committee since at least July; (d) You
> >have been asked at least a dozen times to identify who
> >you recognize as the Steering Committee, and you have
> >consistently refused.
> >
> >Your putsch, your coup, has been put down by the
> >established leadership of the group.  You have failed
> >in taking over the group.  The NBPC is led by the
> >Steering Committee I have outlined above and not by
> >you.  I would invite you to leave the organization if
> >you: (a) Do not recognize that Steering Committee as
> >the leadership or (b) Deny that the principles adopted
> >at the June 30, 2001 meeting are the principles of the
> >Campaign.  You still have your mural project, BOL, and
> >SWORD to run, don't you?   I mean - do you really have
> >the time for this?
> >
> >I will treat your expletives toward me as a rejection
> >of our offer to enter into discussions to settle our
> >disputes.  Rather, I will again ask and direct that
> >you cease and desist from unauthorized use of the New
> >Brunswick People's Campaign name or from public
> >misstatements of its leadership or its policies
> >(including on this egroup).  I would invite you to
> >confess your error to Mr. Reilly and Ms. Waters,
> >instead of asking me to retract my statements.
> >
> >You have been warned.  I will not allow you to use
> >your self-serving nonsense to undermine progressive
> >work in New Brunswick.  Be guided accordingly.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> >your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> >or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>





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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2441
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-13 22:40:40
Subject:Re: Endgame
Message:

in the interests of a principled united front-
i will publicly meet with anybody regarding the peoples struggle for 
democracy. i agree with cliff, no republicans or republican agenda's.

what date shall we set flavio, keith, cliff & others interested?
degloma called me last month and suggested a meeting and i said ok, that was 
as far as it went.

as for the rest of your incoherant positions flavio - i show up at the nbpc 
meetings, with all your "duty to the organization", why don't you?

how can anyone question identical accounts given by four people about a 
meeting that they did not attend? -joe


From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@a...>
To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>, "joseph smith"
<can_bush@h...>, "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
Subject: Endgame
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:24:59 -0500

Keith has made the suggestion of having a meeting on a mutually
agreeable date so as to stop this squabbling.  I think the Steering
Committee would agree to a date right after the students return, i.e. late 
Jan. instead of the January 5 date you've selected.  That kind of 
arrangement could let you guys save face ,stop the hemorrhage of members 
leaving the egroup, and let me turn my attention to more productive things.  
If you are interested let me know.

_________________________________________________________________
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http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2442
Sender:"groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-14 15:33:44
Subject:Re: Endgame
Message:

Joe:

In addition to no Republicans or Republican agendas, I also think 
there should also be no Maoists or Maoist agendas.  I think that each 
party should clarify in advance of the meeting what their 
understanding of each is.  (E.g. the Republicans want Cahill out, but 
it's clear we don't intend to exclude that from discussion just 
because it happens to be a Republican goal).

I want to float (on my own behalf alone) the idea of January 26.  If 
there are objections to that date, let me know.

With respect to Joe's comments about meetings: yes, I did miss the 
September 8 meeting because I was in the hospital recovering from 
surgery.  Sorry for that.  The events after that date were not legal 
meetings, as I have previously concluded, so I had no duty to attend 
them.  

With respect to evidence about what occurred on September 8: Joe says 
there are four consistent stories.  There are not.  I have asked over 
a dozen times now for the names of the people who were allegedly 
elected that day.  No one has offered any names.  So there are 
certainly not any consistent stories about what occurred there.  It 
just continues to be Joe making up the story as goes along.  In a 
recent posting, he says "17" people attended the meeting.  But last 
week, he listed 9 people (by first name only; many of whom I have 
never heard of) who attended.  Same ol' inconsistencies.  Joe 
evidently disclaims any responsibility to tell the readership of this 
board what is going at the gatherings he calls.







--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> 
> in the interests of a principled united front-
> i will publicly meet with anybody regarding the peoples struggle 
for 
> democracy. i agree with cliff, no republicans or republican 
agenda's.
> 
> what date shall we set flavio, keith, cliff & others interested?
> degloma called me last month and suggested a meeting and i said ok, 
that was 
> as far as it went.
> 
> as for the rest of your incoherant positions flavio - i show up at 
the nbpc 
> meetings, with all your "duty to the organization", why don't you?
> 
> how can anyone question identical accounts given by four people 
about a 
> meeting that they did not attend? -joe
> 
> 
> From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>, "joseph smith"
> <can_bush@h...>, "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> Subject: Endgame
> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:24:59 -0500
> 
> Keith has made the suggestion of having a meeting on a mutually
> agreeable date so as to stop this squabbling.  I think the Steering
> Committee would agree to a date right after the students return, 
i.e. late 
> Jan. instead of the January 5 date you've selected.  That kind of 
> arrangement could let you guys save face ,stop the hemorrhage of 
members 
> leaving the egroup, and let me turn my attention to more productive 
things.  
> If you are interested let me know.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2443
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-14 16:02:47
Subject:Protest for the Cuban 5!!
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is calling on all supporters to try to make 
it to this important protest!!  Support the 5 Cuban Political prisoners!!  
Please read, pass on and attend!!

Libertad para todos los presos politicos!!
Free all political prisoners!!

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
________________________________________________

INFO PICKET/PROTEST TO FREE THE 5!
MONDAY, DECEMBER 17th @ 12 noon
Manhattan Federal Building, 26 Federal Plaza

If you can't make it, please call/fax/email President Bush and Attorney 
General Ashcroft and tell them to free the Miami Five!

Who are the Miami Five?
They are Cuban men who were convicted June 2001 and have been unjustly 
imprisoned for defending their country of Cuba from terrorists based in 
Miami. Already two of the five companeros have received life sentences, the 
others are awaiting sentencing and Monday will begin the fourth sentence 
hearing. They have spent more than 17 months in solitary confinement. After 
conviction, they were placed into Security Housing Units in total isolation, 
where they remain.

The five were convicted after a politically-charged trial, in which the U.S. 
government claimed they were engaging in espionage against U.S. military 
bases and threatening "national security." As the Five maintained in their 
defense, they were strictly involved in monitoring the actions of the 
Miami-based right-wing groups. In fact, they shared information with U.S. 
officials when dangerous actions were planned by the terrorist groups they 
infiltrated.

Justified Defense of Cuba Against U.S.-based Terrorist Actions
For more than 40 years, Cuban right-wing groups based in Miami have engaged 
in numerous terrorist activities against Cuba. Also against Cuban-Americans 
and other people who advocate a normalization of relations between the two 
countries and an end to the blockade. These actions - by groups like Alpha 
66, Brigada 2506, Omega 7, Brothers to the Rescue, and Comandos F4- have 
caused the death and injury of hundreds of individuals.

Because neo-fascist, anti-Cuba organizations continue to operate with 
impunity from within the US. - with the full knowledge and support of the 
FBI and CIA - the Cuban government made a decision to send Cuban security 
agents to Florida, to monitor the activities of the terrorists. They 
infiltrated the terrorist organizations to inform the island of imminent 
attacks. The aim of such a clandestine operation by the Cuban security � at 
great risk for the Cuban agents who infiltrated � was to  prevent criminal 
acts that would endanger the Cuban AND US lives.

Tell BUSH and ASHCROFT: Free the Miami Five!
For Pres. Bush CALL: 202-456-1414 FAX: 202-456-2461 EMAIL:  
president@...
For Attorney Gen. Ashcroft CALL: 202-514-5331, FAX: 202-514-0293, 
202-307-2512
SPONSORED BY NEW YORK CITY FREE THE FIVE COMMITTEE:
freethefivenyc@..., 212-926-5757


IFCO/Pastors for Peace
402 W 145th Street, New York City, NY 10031
212-926-5757; fax: 212-926-5842; email: ifco@...;
web: http://www.ifconews.org



_________________________________________________________________
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http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2444
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-14 16:19:13
Subject:Cuban Five Update!!
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign is forwarding out this update in solidarity 
for the New York Free the Miami Five Committee.
___________________________________________________________
Dear Supporters for the Five Cuban Patriots:
>
>Following is an update on the first 3 days of the
>court hearings to decide the sentences for the
>companeros imprisoned in Miami.
>
>We urgently need your support, and ask that you read
>this update and help in any way you can.
>
>1. Four of the mothers of the five are in Miami, along
>with Rene Gonzalez's 16-year-old daughter, and Rene's
>brother. They are in the U.S. for two weeks during the
>hearings, along with other Cubans from Washington who
>are accompanying them. This is costing their
>supporters a great deal of money, as they have to stay
>in hotels for their security. Also, for food, van
>rental, document copying, etc., and the community
>supporters in Miami have very little money. PLEASE,
>PLEASE SEND AN IMMEDIATE DONATION SO WE CAN HELP THE
>MOTHERS SUPPORT THEIR SONS. Please send anything you
>can, and we will wire it to them. These funds go
>strictly to pay for their stay in the U.S. Make check
>to: Free the Five/IAC, 2489 Mission St., Room 24, San
>Francisco CA 94110.
>
>2. PLEASE KEEP CALLING THE WHITE HOUSE AND DEMAND THAT
>BUSH FREE THE FIVE CUBANS IN MIAMI. Let Washington
>know that they have a lot of support.
>
>Yesterday, Wednesday, December 12, Gerardo Hernandez,
>one of the five Cuban patriots who was railroaded by
>the U.S. government on outrageous espionage, murder
>conspiracy and other charges, was given two life
>sentences today, plus 80 months.
>
>For the last two days, court sessions were held to
>hear arguments from the defense for a reduction of
>sentence, and from the government which argued for
>increase in sentence.
>
>The decisions by Judge Joan Lenard found every time
>for the U.S. prosecutors on all motions. The whole
>process, from arrest to conviction and now the
>sentencing hearings -- with the stiffest sentences
>likely to be given to all 5 compa�eros -- has turned
>reality on its head.
>
>It is the terrorists in Miami who belong in prison,
>not these 5 men, who acted so courageously to defend
>their people and took on such a dangerous task in the
>"belly of the beast."
>
>Despite forceful and very convincing arguments for
>sentencing reduction by defense attorney Paul McKenna,
>who held that a "greater harm was prevented" by the
>action that Gerardo took, that Cuba has been
>victimized by years of terror attacks by the Miami
>groups, that Cuba's response to the Brothers to the
>Rescue raids was justified self-defense, despite
>Gerardo's history as never committing any crime nor
>harming anyone, despite Gerardo's work of STOPPING
>terrorism, the judge sided with every outrageous
>argument of the federal prosecutors.
>
>Among other things, Judge Lenard agreed with the
>prosecution that his work constituted a "grave danger"
>to the national security of the United States.
>
>In addition to two concurrent (running at same time)
>life sentences,Lenard tacked on 80 months more.
>
>Gerardo gave a heroic address in court before
>sentencing. It was very moving and exposed the utter
>hypocrisy of the prosecution and government in their
>position. All the family members and supporters were
>of course very upset but maintained a dignified
>posture. We were all very proud of Gerardo.
>
>Thursday December 13th Ramon Labanino was sentenced to
>life. On Friday, December 14th the hearing for Rene
>Gonzalez will be held. On Monday, Dec. 17 the hearing
>for Fernando Gonzalez will begin. On December 27, the
>hearing for Antonio Guerrero will begin.
>


_________________________________________________________________
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http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2445
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-14 18:51:36
Subject:bring it... bring it all
Message:

it is not in the interests of nbpc, an independent political organization, 
to replace a democratic mayor with a republican one. we oppose all 
opportunist attempts to ride the backs of our activities to create such 
circumstances. that is why republicans are not allowed in the organization, 
nor are their agendas.

you are wrong flavio:
republicans are not interested in wanting cahill out. they want a republican 
in or cahill stays - not an independent. that is why bright ran for mayor in 
98, with no shot at winning, rather than dumping his right wing agenda in 
order to join/unify the united front. so how is it that you say republicans 
want cahill out? not if that means an independent should become elected.

just as nbpc is not interested in wanting cahill out if that means a 
republican should be elected. that is why nbpc voted unanimously to work to 
bury schundler. i am not opposing cahill with a more viscous enemy of the 
people - which is what the republicans are!

it is any republican alliance that violates the nbpc effort for democratic 
community control.

what is bright doing on the housing authority if he supports democracy? 
bright certainly has nothing to do with public housing, so that can't be it. 
bright also knows, as we do to, that his appointment to the NBHA stands in 
violation of federal law which states all housing authorities must have a 
resident from public housing represented on the board. NBHA does not. what 
is your thought on this? i think if nbpc had a progressive lawyer this would 
make a terrific case, too bad though the lawyer that identifies with nbpc 
organizes closer with bush's peoples than the peoples in public housing. i 
even proposed it to them that the city council lauch the suit.

check this:
the republican agenda is more interested in defeating any conscious 
independent political organization that will unite the people, than it is in 
defeating cahill! or else how do you explain bright nominating jim luceno to 
oppose me to chair the elected school board question at the nbpc convention. 
(which, by the way, is the first criticism that bol had brought to the nbpc 
at the first steering committee meeting.) luceno has zero experience with 
the school board campaign, so it can't be that bright agenda was to win, ie. 
defeat cahill! bright's main agenda was to oppose communists and in doing so 
he was forced to openly oppose democratic community control. this is when 
the leadership of the organization should have acted to distance the 
organization from such right wing forces, but instead it embraced such 
forces and betrayed the people. going on to advance the republican party 
agenda while completely dismissing the nbpc agenda of democratic community 
control.

flavio and all, i am interested in your thoughts on this as it does finally 
address the initial criticism bol had with the campaign & the opportunists 
that promoted bright to where he is now. the steering committee at that time 
didn't even read bol's criticism, but i will make it readily available.


it is obvious that flavio does not recognize the nbpc general body as the 
directors of the campaign and therefore i no longer see a need in any debate 
about sept8 as the general body made decisions and acted on them and will 
continue to do so. it is too bad that flavio was in the hospital - i look 
forward to seeing him at the next general meeting january 5 with his new 
proposal about maoists. -joe

get at me with your date.



>From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: Endgame
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:38:10 -0000
>
>Joe:
>
>In addition to no Republicans or Republican agendas, I also think
>there should also be no Maoists or Maoist agendas.  I think that each
>party should clarify in advance of the meeting what their
>understanding of each is.  (E.g. the Republicans want Cahill out, but
>it's clear we don't intend to exclude that from discussion just
>because it happens to be a Republican goal).
>
>I want to float (on my own behalf alone) the idea of January 26.  If
>there are objections to that date, let me know.
>
>With respect to Joe's comments about meetings: yes, I did miss the
>September 8 meeting because I was in the hospital recovering from
>surgery.  Sorry for that.  The events after that date were not legal
>meetings, as I have previously concluded, so I had no duty to attend
>them.
>
>With respect to evidence about what occurred on September 8: Joe says
>there are four consistent stories.  There are not.  I have asked over
>a dozen times now for the names of the people who were allegedly
>elected that day.  No one has offered any names.  So there are
>certainly not any consistent stories about what occurred there. It
>just continues to be Joe making up the story as goes along.  In a
>recent posting, Cliff says "17" people attended the meeting.  But
>last week, Joe listed 9 people (by first name only; many of whom I
>have never heard of) who attended.  Same ol' inconsistencies.  Joe
>evidently disclaims any responsibility to tell the readership of this
>board what is going at the gatherings he calls.
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> >
> > in the interests of a principled united front-
> > i will publicly meet with anybody regarding the peoples struggle
>for
> > democracy. i agree with cliff, no republicans or republican
>agenda's.
> >
> > what date shall we set flavio, keith, cliff & others interested?
> > degloma called me last month and suggested a meeting and i said ok,
>that was
> > as far as it went.
> >
> > as for the rest of your incoherant positions flavio - i show up at
>the nbpc
> > meetings, with all your "duty to the organization", why don't you?
> >
> > how can anyone question identical accounts given by four people
>about a
> > meeting that they did not attend? -joe
> >
> >
> > From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> > To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>, "joseph smith"
> > <can_bush@h...>, "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> > Subject: Endgame
> > Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:24:59 -0500
> >
> > Keith has made the suggestion of having a meeting on a mutually
> > agreeable date so as to stop this squabbling.  I think the Steering
> > Committee would agree to a date right after the students return,
>i.e. late
> > Jan. instead of the January 5 date you've selected.  That kind of
> > arrangement could let you guys save face ,stop the hemorrhage of
>members
> > leaving the egroup, and let me turn my attention to more productive
>things.
> > If you are interested let me know.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>





_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2446
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-14 21:39:00
Subject:Re: [nbpc] Re: Endgame
Message:

im glad you agree w/ peoples' unity against the republican party.

26 jan sounds alright, tho a purpose & agenda shd be proposed.

i suggest to develop a minimum level of working unity of all who support 
majority rule, community control, & peoples' democracy in nb.
which is entirely in contradiction to the republican imperial agenda, and 
entirely consistent w/ communism as developed by mao.

since flavio was not at the 8 sept. mtg, & made no effort to inform himself 
of what transpired, he is in no position to "conclude" that the democratic 
decisions made there are not "legal", including the replacement of the 
steering committee, the development of the Statement of Purpose, and the 
establishment of subsequent mtgs & events.

by my recollection of the mtg & of joe's post, there were some 17 people 
present.  flavio, have you any witnesses to corroborate yr "conclusions", or 
do you concede them to be phantoms of personal desire?


>From: "groovemeister007" <flavio.komuves@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Re: Endgame
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:33:44 -0000
>
>Joe:
>
>In addition to no Republicans or Republican agendas, I also think
>there should also be no Maoists or Maoist agendas.  I think that each
>party should clarify in advance of the meeting what their
>understanding of each is.  (E.g. the Republicans want Cahill out, but
>it's clear we don't intend to exclude that from discussion just
>because it happens to be a Republican goal).
>
>I want to float (on my own behalf alone) the idea of January 26.  If
>there are objections to that date, let me know.
>
>With respect to Joe's comments about meetings: yes, I did miss the
>September 8 meeting because I was in the hospital recovering from
>surgery.  Sorry for that.  The events after that date were not legal
>meetings, as I have previously concluded, so I had no duty to attend
>them.
>
>With respect to evidence about what occurred on September 8: Joe says
>there are four consistent stories.  There are not.  I have asked over
>a dozen times now for the names of the people who were allegedly
>elected that day.  No one has offered any names.  So there are
>certainly not any consistent stories about what occurred there.  It
>just continues to be Joe making up the story as goes along.  In a
>recent posting, he says "17" people attended the meeting.  But last
>week, he listed 9 people (by first name only; many of whom I have
>never heard of) who attended.  Same ol' inconsistencies.  Joe
>evidently disclaims any responsibility to tell the readership of this
>board what is going at the gatherings he calls.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> >
> > in the interests of a principled united front-
> > i will publicly meet with anybody regarding the peoples struggle
>for
> > democracy. i agree with cliff, no republicans or republican
>agenda's.
> >
> > what date shall we set flavio, keith, cliff & others interested?
> > degloma called me last month and suggested a meeting and i said ok,
>that was
> > as far as it went.
> >
> > as for the rest of your incoherant positions flavio - i show up at
>the nbpc
> > meetings, with all your "duty to the organization", why don't you?
> >
> > how can anyone question identical accounts given by four people
>about a
> > meeting that they did not attend? -joe
> >
> >
> > From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> > To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>, "joseph smith"
> > <can_bush@h...>, "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> > Subject: Endgame
> > Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:24:59 -0500
> >
> > Keith has made the suggestion of having a meeting on a mutually
> > agreeable date so as to stop this squabbling.  I think the Steering
> > Committee would agree to a date right after the students return,
>i.e. late
> > Jan. instead of the January 5 date you've selected.  That kind of
> > arrangement could let you guys save face ,stop the hemorrhage of
>members
> > leaving the egroup, and let me turn my attention to more productive
>things.
> > If you are interested let me know.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>





_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2447
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-14 21:51:46
Subject:hip hop meets poetry
Message:

monday, 17 december, 6-8:30pm
come vibe wit the positive flow of jersey's finest various artist 
performances and open mic

free admission
new brunswick teen center, 65 morris st

sponsored by Black Gold's kera Jhuty Heru Neb Hu
for info contact: MBAHERU@mwanafunzi@...



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2448
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-16 11:37:32
Subject:Fwd: [nbpcmembers] proposal
Message:

unanimously adopted by nbpc, 8 sept, 2001
next mtg, 5 jan, noon, nbpublic library


>From: "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
>Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@egroups.com, nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com, 
>njfo@egroups.com
>Subject: [nbpcmembers] proposal
>Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:02:45 +0000
>
>proposal to nbpeoplescampaign.
>to be voted sat., 8/25
>
>
>the objective of the nbpeoplescampaign is peoples' democracy and political
>power.
>
>this objective is expressed in the community's slogans: "put people 
>first!",
>"community control!", & "unite, organize, seize power!"
>
>as allies the nbpc has the democratic forces of the peoples.
>
>as enemies the nbpc has the representatives of monopoly 
>capital/imperialism.
>
>the nbpc will make strategic alliances w/all democratic forces & tactical
>alliances w/all democratic tendencies.
>
>the strategy of the peoples campaign is principally to challenge in 
>winnable
>elections for peoples' representation.  &to pin the democratic party on the
>republican party in those elections in which we cannot yet win.
>
>immediately, this means to support ras baraka for nwk council, may '02.  to
>smash schundler! keep mcgreasy in the fire! in nov. '01.  then to take nb
>elected school board, mayor & 2council seats in nov. 02.  also to develop 
>in
>hp &elsewhere.
>
>all alliances w/ republican representatives &positions by nbpc leadership
>were/are anti-democratic deviations at the peoples' expense.  one cannot
>simultaneously uphold the republican party platform & peoples' democracy.
>the nbpc must establish itself on an uncompromising democratic basis w/
>uncompromising democratic leadership.
>
>all nbpc officers who fail to fully criticize &correct these backward
>schemes &methods must be immediately replaced.  nominations shd be taken
>immediately for steering committee &campaign chair, to be voted in sept.
>mtg.
>
>cliff smith
>student/worker organization for revolutionary democracy
>8/20
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>





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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2449
Sender:FBRIGHT123@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-16 19:09:04
Subject:In response to Joe Smith's "bring it... bring it all"
Message:



>it is not in the interests of nbpc, an independent political organization, 
>to replace a democratic mayor with a republican one. 

That goal should be decided in an open forum where everyone is welcome - 
except those that openly use words of hate, racism, etc., as Joe, Cliff and 
others did in May 2000: that is why they were expelled - for being openly 
bigoted/hateful/racist. 

>we oppose all opportunist attempts to ride the backs of our activities to 
create such 
>circumstances. 

"We" in the above response should be "I". The NBPC is currently in the final 
death throes. The people have spoken by not showing up to these NBPC meetings 
( 17 persons out of a town of 48,000 after two years of organizing.)

This talk about the Smiths being against opportunism is a lie. This is in 
direct contradiction to all the moves Joe/Cliff have done on a personal and 
political basis. Their active work with myself years ago, their support for 
McGreevey  this year was very opportunistic and it has not done a thing for 
the people of NJ. They have created no support this year but rather have lost 
tremendous support amoungst the community.

>that is why republicans are not allowed in the organization, 
>nor are their agendas.

The Smiths are directly showing their hatred in no uncertain terms, here.

>you are wrong flavio: republicans are not interested in wanting cahill out. 
they want a >republican in or cahill stays - not an independent. 

As Republican Chairman, I can state the NBRP by-laws state explicitly that we 
want an independent Mayor and city council. Short of not finding a coalition 
to make that happen, the NBRP would then run candidates. Mr. Smith has lied 
knowingly on this point. How else am I involved in so many things as a 
Republican?

>that is why bright ran for mayor in 98, with no shot at winning, rather than 
dumping his right >wing agenda in order to join/unify the united front. so 
how is it that you say republicans 
>want cahill out? not if that means an independent should become elected.

That year noone was politically active. I attempted to make a coalition but 
Shapiro and Neal were not people I was able to convince. As such, I, with the 
support of a significant part of New Brunswick, made a respectable showing 
along with the respect I/we have earned over the past few years.

>just as nbpc is not interested in wanting cahill out if that means a 
republican should be >elected. that is why nbpc voted unanimously to work to 
>bury schundler. i am not opposing cahill with a more viscous enemy of the 
>people - which is what the republicans are!

The NBPC did not work unaninmously to "Bury Schundler". Many nominal NBPC 
members supported Schundler but never came to NBPC meetings because they did 
not wish to waste their time. Besides their votes do not mean anything in the 
NBPC as it is not a democratic body. If anyone goes to a future or past 
meeting, that becomes very self-evident.

>it is any republican alliance that violates the nbpc effort for democratic 
>community control.

The Smiths were working with me for years and apologized for not endorsing me 
when I ran for Mayor in '98. What has changed?

>what is bright doing on the housing authority if he supports democracy? 
>bright certainly has nothing to do with public housing, so that can't be it. 

Please go to www.thnt.com and type my name. There are all the issues and my 
position on them. The SMiths lie again.

>bright also knows, as we do to, that his appointment to the NBHA stands in 
>violation of federal law which states all housing authorities must have a 
>resident from public housing represented on the board. 

My appointment is very legal, as Flavio has told you, CIty Attorney Hamilton 
has told you and I have told you, amoungst others. The mayor is in violation 
of the law as he did not appoint a resident but rather appoint Bea Harris.

>NBHA does not. 

Because of MY efforts and the support of the PEOPLE of New Brunswick and the 
help of the STATE OF NEW JERSEY, New Brunswick has a public housing resident 
on the NBHA board.
That Commissioner is George Berry and he supports my being on the NBHA board. 
He said that right in front of you.

>what is your thought on this? i think if nbpc had a progressive lawyer this 
would 
>make a terrific case, too bad though the lawyer that identifies with nbpc 
>organizes closer with bush's peoples than the peoples in public housing. i 
>even proposed it to them that the city council lauch the suit.

Please file a lawsuit on this against me. I can then countersue and then the 
fun begins. The City Council has stated on record there is nothing illegal 
with my appointment and they wish me, not very convincingly,  "Good Luck."

>check this: the republican agenda is more interested in defeating any 
conscious 
>independent political organization that will unite the people, than it is in 
>defeating cahill! or else how do you explain bright nominating jim luceno to 
>oppose me to chair the elected school board question at the nbpc convention. 

I oppose you as a leader because you have destroyed all groups you get 
involved with. You stated that the BOE question was not about the question 
but about build a communist party. That is not what a coalition is about.

>(which, by the way, is the first criticism that bol had brought to the nbpc 
>at the first steering committee meeting.) luceno has zero experience with 
>the school board campaign, so it can't be that bright agenda was to win, ie. 
>defeat cahill! bright's main agenda was to oppose communists and in doing so 
>he was forced to openly oppose democratic community control. this is when 
>the leadership of the organization should have acted to distance the 
>organization from such right wing forces, but instead it embraced such 
>forces and betrayed the people. going on to advance the republican party 
>agenda while completely dismissing the nbpc agenda of democratic community 
>control.

You attacked me by attacking African Americans in a letter that used almost 
all the derogatory terms that I know for African Americans. That is why you 
were expelled from the NBPC. When you were asked to explain yourself. You 
were shaking and silent. You gave no response to your behavior as you were 
embarrassed to tears. You ran out of the Steering Committee meeting where all 
this occurred in a very cowardly manner. This same cowardly manner was 
evident when you failed in pressing charges against Kevin Jones.

>flavio and all, i am interested in your thoughts on this as it does finally 
>address the initial criticism bol had with the campaign & the opportunists 
>that promoted bright to where he is now. the steering committee at that time 
>didn't even read bol's criticism, but i will make it readily available.

The Steering Committee did read the criticism. As we had the beginnings of a 
dynamic group, that was later sabotaged by NJFO/RED Coalition, you should 
have wriote it in spanish for Danny and Diego to understand more clearly.

>it is obvious that flavio does not recognize the nbpc general body as the 
>directors of the campaign and therefore i no longer see a need in any debate 
>about sept8 as the general body made decisions and acted on them and will 
>continue to do so. it is too bad that flavio was in the hospital - i look 
>forward to seeing him at the next general meeting january 5 with his new 
>proposal about maoists. -joe

Flavio, as always, is not a good liar and gets caught quickly. The NBPC can 
be run by the Smiths with all the recognition the NBPC deserves. The NBPC is 
basically dead as it is irrelevant to the concerns of the PEOPLE. Currently 
there exists a loose organization, separate from the NBPC,  with the backing 
of a growing segment of the PEOPLE of New Brunswick. If anyone on this 
e-groups wishes to fight for direct democracy please contact me.

>get at me with your date.


Best,

Frank Bright
(732) 249-7201

 






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2450
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-16 21:36:19
Subject:Re: [nbpc] In response to Joe Smith's "bring it... bring it all"
Message:

DEAR FRIENDS,

MEET OTHER CONCERN CITIZENS WITH WHOM TO GAIN NEW PERSPECTIVES ON
PROBLEMS AND WITH WHOM TO CELEBRATE LIFE AND JOY. THIS EVIDENCE WILLS
STRENGTHEN OTHERS. BECOME A GREAT LEADER OF YOUR COMMUNITY AS YOU
ACCOMPLISH PROJECTS WITH OTHERS AND GROW IN KNOWLEDGE ,WISDOM ,
UNDERSTANDING. FIND HELP AND GUIDANCE FOR LIFE'S CHALLENGES. YOU MUST
CALL FRANK BRIGHT (723) 249-7201.

THANK YOU,
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2451
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-17 20:16:40
Subject:january nbpc meeting: unite don't split
Message:




New Brunswick
Peoples� Campaign 2002
unite the many, defeat the few!


Public Meeting:
12:00 noon, Saturday, 5 January
New Brunswick Public Library

Discuss Education and Housing in New Brunswick

Guest Speakers:

	Ivan Salazar,    President�Hispanic Parents� Association
	Tracy Jordan,    Director �Puerto Rican Action Board
                                Early Childhood Development Program
	Robert Maglies,
	Joe Adevai 		     �New Brunswick Landlords


Prepare citywide strategy to build a Peoples� New Brunswick,
not a corporate New Brunswick

November elections for Mayor, 2 Council seats, and
Elected School Board referendum

Contact Cliff Smith 732.214.8828




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2452
Sender:Dwayne Middleton <nia7@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-17 21:30:16
Subject:Verse 4 Verse Poetry Cafe 12-19-01
Message:

Verse 4 Verse Poetry Cafe

Featured Artist:

Marjie Barnes


Wednesday, December 19, 2001
& Usually Every Last Wednesday of the Month
(Except This Special Show Due to Christmas Holiday)


Music by Da Joint


Doors Open @ 7pm
Showtime @ 8pm


$8.00 Cover


$10.00 after 10pm


Hosted by:
Ras Baraka & Juba Dowdell


The Bridge Club
343 Washington Street
(Downtown)
Newark, NJ 07102
(between Court St. & William St.)


Plus...
Open Mic Showcase


For more information Call: 877.713.7313


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2453
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-17 22:11:44
Subject:Re: [nbpc] january nbpc meeting: unite don't split
Message:

DEAR FRIENDS,

KIDS NEED A FUTURE, NOT FUNERALS. PLEASE TAKE ACTION NOW TO SAFEGUARD
YOUR CHILDREN. CALL FRANK BRIGHT AT (732) 249-7201

THANK YOU,
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2454
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-18 10:18:25
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: U.S. Again Placing Focus on Ousting Hussein
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


Support the Struggle of Self Determination for Nations, Oppose US Imperialism! BEAT BACK BUSH!!

this message has been forwarded by the New Brunswick Peoples Campaign can_bush@...

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U.S. Again Placing Focus on Ousting Hussein

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terrorism to Iraq has gained significant ground in recent
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Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2455
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-18 10:34:52
Subject:no republicans!!
Message:

keith, fix nbpeoplescampaign egroups so that republicans cannot participate 
at any level. specifically ford&bright&curtis are to be immediately 
removed/disabled... -joe


>From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>

>Flavio,
>I attended the meeting on Sept. 8. Zofia came as a rep of the steering
>committee and explained that the Steering Committee dissolved itself and 
>had no interest in the campaign. At that meeting we voted to recall that 
>steering commitee and we elected a new one. This is fully in accordance 
>with the both the letter and spirit of by-laws of the People's Campign; 
>which hold that the General Meetings are the supreme body and hold supreme 
>decesion making power, and that the steering committee is subordinated to 
>that body. The main duties of the Steering Committee lie in the interim 
>period between general meetings. The People's Campaign internal structure 
>is radically democratic.
>      All of the evidence you raised as to why you find this unbelievable 
>is really not as impartial as you have presented it. Joe and Co. have been 
>acting in the name of the Campaign since this meeting which would give 
>credibilty to this story while at the same time the people that you believe 
>to be on the Steering Committee have not spoken once in the name of the 
>Campaign. How would you explain this?
>Actually don't asnwer, I don't really care. No offense but this debate is 
>leaning far over the edge of absurdity and I don't want to be the one to 
>push it over. The Campaign is being destroyed by people who to put it 
>mildly lack the social graces of kindergardeners (which is not to deny that 
>their method is connected to their political line but to point to the most 
>obvious maifestation of that line. Just today Joe Smith said in a letter to 
>asking me to help him "you are an ass".) on the one hand and on the other 
>by people who would rather run than struggle (that is how I read their 
>refusal to show up at the Sept 8 meeting: gutless).
>      However this deabate is pointless, if everyone can agree on a date 
>for the next general meeting everything can be decided there.  Elections, 
>tactics, strategy etc. The truth will come out in the couirse of practice. 
>Whoever has been doing the most effective organizing should have no problem 
>winning votes at the next meeting.
>
>Keith
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "groovemeister007" <Groovemeister007@...>
> >Reply-To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> >To: nbpcmembers@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [nbpcmembers] Re: Response to F. Komuves, NBPC General Council
> >Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 18:38:12 -0000
> >
> >Matt,
> >
> >the reason I responded privately to you is that I consider the debate
> >over.  Joe's coup has failed.  My conclusions stand; if Joe wants to
> >go to court to try and overturn these determinations, he is certainly
> >free to do so.
> >
> >I want you to consider this: Joe's claim is that a number of votes
> >happened on September 8, i.e. replacement of the Steering Commitee,
> >explusion of Republicans, etc.  Have you asked yourself - or him -
> >why he waited until November 12 to tell me these facts, waited until
> >November 30 to tell the press of these facts, and waited until
> >December 1 to tell the newsgroup of these facts?  Have you asked
> >yourself - or him - why, despite no less than six requests, he still
> >refuses to disclose who he recognizes as the Steering Committee?
> >Have you asked yourself - or him - why he can't get the dates or
> >votes straight on any of these things?  You've seen the evidence.
> >
> >My job as General Counsel is to represent the entity, not any
> >individuals, and not any factions.  I did not prejudge Joe's
> >assertions.  I looked at the evidence and found his story not
> >credible.  I have to look at actual evidence.  Evidence that is
> >consistent is something I credit.  Evidence that is inconsistent is
> >something I do not credit.  That's why I didn't and don't buy his
> >version of events.  I asked him for credible evidence; he provided
> >none.  When he hit me, out of the blue, on November 12 with
> >statements like the SC is abolished, membership from Republicans is
> >not being accepted (which he lated changed to say existing Republican
> >members are expelled), I asked for proof.  It's awful hard to believe
> >someone whose stories keep changing.  But still, I gave him every
> >opportunity to present some credible explanation - he didn't.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In nbpcmembers@y..., "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...> wrote:
> > > Flavio- This is an interesting loop of logic you've gotten yourself
> >caught
> > > up in, but in all your legalistic web you fail to get to the heart
> >of the
> > > matter--that is, the NBPC ceased being an effective oragnization of
> >the
> > > people the moment it was consumed by liberal,sectarian formalism at
> >the
> > > expense of it's original mission as a united front for peoples'
> >democracy
> > > (revolutionary democracy)... some examples of which being the
> >expulsion of
> > > SWORD & permittance of republicanism- there are others... btw, re-
> >expelling
> > > SWORD will not bring you any closer to the people of the city!!
> > >
> > > & seriously, it is a bit odd that you keep responding to me
> >personally when
> > > I raise questions on a public(members) list....I'm still wondering
> >what the
> > > real intentions of the RED Collective members of the old Steering
> >Committee
> > > are regarding the NBPC. & if they lay claim--which is better than
> >abandoning
> > > the project--then why their absence over the months? I only ask you
> >because
> > > you volunteered to be their spokesperson......Matthew
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > From: "Komuves, Flavio" <>
> > > To: "Vivaohio@hotmail. com (E-mail)" <vivaohio@h...>
> > > Subject: Response to email
> > > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:23:29 -0500
> > >
> > > Matt,
> > >
> > > I issued the orders.  I have the authority to issue these orders by
> >virtue
> > > of (a) the general authority I possess as the General Counsel to
> >the entity
> > > to protect it against coups and unauthorized uses and dilution of
> >its name
> > > and (b) the specific authorization to issue these orders granted to
> >me by
> > > the Legal Committee of the Steering Committee.
> > >
> > > I cannot comment about when the full Steering Committee intends to
> >next
> > > issue a statement to its members.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In nbpcmembers@y <mailto:nbpcmembers@y> ..., "Matthew Smith" <
> > > vivaohio@h <mailto:vivaohio@h> ...> wrote:
> > >  > Flavio- Point of Clarification: who is issuing said orders?  You
> >have
> > > stated
> > >  > to me in a personal (?) memorandum that the original SC members
> >are in
> > > fact
> > >  > still in place.  When will the membership (?) hear from them,
> >and learn
> > >  > their intentions from them, rather than through a
> >spokesperson?  -Matt
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Above email is for intended recipient only and may be confidential
> >and
> > > protected by attorney/client privilege.
> > > If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender
> >immediately.
> > > Unauthorized use or distribution is prohibited and may be unlawful.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>





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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2456
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-18 10:37:14
Subject:Fwd: RE: remove republicans!
Message:



From: <dlj@...>
Reply-To: <dlj@...>
To: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Subject: RE: remove republicans!
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:20:42 -0500

Done.


>-----Original Message-----
>From: joseph smith [mailto:can_bush@...]
>Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:26 AM
>Cc: dlj@...
>Subject: remove republicans!

i propose that republicans should not be posting at onepeoplesproject & 
njfo. specifically tracyford & frankbright. i will contact keith about 
nbpeoplescampaign. -joe

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2457
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-18 14:09:03
Subject:Mumia Sentencing Changed!!
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign urges everyone to read the Associated Press 
article at this link.  The recent overturn of the death sentence conviction 
is an amazing victory for the supporters of Mumia.  Please read and forward 
far and wide.

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
________________________________________________________


http://inq.philly.com/content/inquirer/2001/12/18/local_news/18MUMIA.htm

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2458
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-18 14:19:37
Subject:nb peoples' campaign defeats racist slumlord
Message:

New Brunswick
Peoples� Campaign 2002
unite the many, defeat the few!

Contact Cliff Smith 732.214.8828

18 December, 01

for immediate release



The New Brunswick Peoples� Campaign announces a campaign to protect tenants� 
rights against unscrupulous landlords in the city.  The Tenants� Rights 
Campaign has marked an immediate victory in Middlesex County Special Claims 
Court today, when immigrant residents, Ronaldo Barrantes and Georgina 
Solano, were awarded a $1500 judgement in illegally charged rent from their 
landlady, Paula Samuelson (732.828.8577).

Samuelson, a notorious slumlord, has for years overcharged her primarily 
immigrant tenants above the legal rent as she has it registered with the New 
Brunswick Rent Leveling Board.  At their 39 Throop Ave. apartment, Ronaldo 
and Georgina were arbitrarily charged above the legally registered rent, as 
were the rest of the tenants in the building.

The NBPC will be back in court Friday to sue for $2000 in illegally 
overcharged rent for Cliff Smith, also at 39 Throop Ave., and intend to file 
suit on behalf of the other 3 apartments at the address.

�Samuelson is a racist slumlord who we are going to shine a light on,� said 
Smith.  �Just as we stand with honest landlords against the corrupt city 
administration, we also defend tenants against dishonest landlords.  
Everybody�s got to live.�

Smith invites any tenant complaints against dishonest landlords, or landlord 
complaints against arbitrary city actions, to contact the New Brunswick 
Peoples� Campaign at 732.214.8828, or to attend the next public NBPC 
meeting, noon, Saturday, 5 January, at the New Brunswick Public Library.











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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2459
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-18 15:04:12
Subject:death penalty thrown out for mumia
Message:

mumia has had the dealth penalty conviction thrown out. tune in to 880 am 
for breaking news.

I SALUTE ALL FREEDOM FIGHTERS WHO HAVE STRUGGLED AGAINST OUR BACKWARDS US 
IMPERIALIST REGIME. -joe

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2460
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-18 15:12:32
Subject:Mumia - Death Penalty Thrown Out!!
Message:

BEAT BACK BUSH!!!
this message brought to you by the New Brunswick Peoples Campaign 2002-

http://wire.ap.org/APnews/?SITE=JRCPORT&FRONTID=HOME




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2461
Sender:"Chris Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-18 18:44:10
Subject:RE: [nbpc] Fwd: RE: remove republicans!
Message:

Daryle, say it ain't so.  The irony is just too grand.  "One Peoples
Project", sans Republicans.  Are they not people as well?  What group is
next to be excluded from the so-called "One People"?  And on the whim of
these would-be authoritarian 'leftists'?  I thought you were more principled
than that.

Chris



From: <dlj@...>
Reply-To: <dlj@...>
To: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Subject: RE: remove republicans!
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:20:42 -0500

Done.


>-----Original Message-----
>From: joseph smith [mailto:can_bush@...]
>Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:26 AM
>Cc: dlj@...
>Subject: remove republicans!

i propose that republicans should not be posting at onepeoplesproject &
njfo. specifically tracyford & frankbright. i will contact keith about
nbpeoplescampaign. -joe

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2462
Sender:"Chris Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-18 18:51:01
Subject:RE: [nbpc] Re: Endgame
Message:

Flavio,

My sympathies are with you.  But there is an old adage that applies here,
has applied from the dawn of this campaign, and will remain salient until
its final wretched throes.

"Never argue with an idiot.  They bring you down to their level and then
beat you with experience."

Among the best actions of the campaign was the expulsion of this gang of
half-witted thugs.  Now, they'll drive it into the ground, like Lenin and
Mao did to their respective revolutions (and the egalitarian dreams and
aspirations of their respective peoples), but without an iota of the
ill-fated glory and panache those famous misadventurers managed to glean for
themselves.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: groovemeister007 [mailto:flavio.komuves@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:29 AM
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nbpc] Re: Endgame


Joe,

Thanks for your message.  I knew I could count on you to sit down and
broker a settlement to this conflict like an adult.  Also, thanks for
replying publicly so everyone can see your level of maturity in
dealing with this issue.





--- In nbpeoplescampaign@y..., "joseph smith" <can_bush@h...> wrote:
> go fuck yourself
>
>
> >From: "Flavio Komuves" <flavio.komuves@a...>
> >To: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@h...>, "joseph smith"
> ><can_bush@h...>, "cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@h...>
> >Subject: Endgame
> >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:24:59 -0500
> >
> >Keith has made the suggestion of having a meeting on a mutually
agreeable
> >date so as to stop this squabbling.  I think the Steering
Committee would
> >agree to a date right after the students return, i.e. late Jan.
instead of
> >the January 5 date you've selected.  That kind of arrangement
could let you
> >guys save face , stop the hemorrhage of members leaving the
egroup, and let
> >me turn my attention to more productive things.  If you are
interested let
> >me know.
> >
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2463
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-18 18:52:44
Subject:RE: [nbpc] Fwd: RE: remove republicans!
Message:

republicans are the enemy of the people.

you do recognize that there is an enemy, no?

peoples' democratic dictatorship,

cliff


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Chris Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [nbpc] Fwd: RE: remove republicans!
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:44:10 -0500

Daryle, say it ain't so.  The irony is just too grand.  "One Peoples
Project", sans Republicans.  Are they not people as well?  What group is
next to be excluded from the so-called "One People"?  And on the whim of
these would-be authoritarian 'leftists'?  I thought you were more principled
than that.

Chris



From: <dlj@...>
Reply-To: <dlj@...>
To: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Subject: RE: remove republicans!
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:20:42 -0500

Done.


 >-----Original Message-----
 >From: joseph smith [mailto:can_bush@...]
 >Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:26 AM
 >Cc: dlj@...
 >Subject: remove republicans!

i propose that republicans should not be posting at onepeoplesproject &
njfo. specifically tracyford & frankbright. i will contact keith about
nbpeoplescampaign. -joe

_________________________________________________________________
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unite the many, defeat the few!


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2464
Sender:"Chris Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-18 19:02:27
Subject:RE: [nbpc] Fwd: RE: remove republicans!
Message:

I recognize that YOU have enemies, and I'm not surprised.

You'll have to be more concise, and define "people" for me in such a way
that it is apparent that "Republicans" are excluded from that group.  Since
Republicans and Republican-leaning voters constitute 37% of the electorate,
it occurs to me that to exclude 37% of the population from the term "The
People", and, indeed, demonize them as "the enemy", is nothing short of
absurd.  But perhaps you can convince me otherwise.  I encourage you to try.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: cliff smith [mailto:cliffsmith69@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:53 PM
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [nbpc] Fwd: RE: remove republicans!


republicans are the enemy of the people.

you do recognize that there is an enemy, no?

peoples' democratic dictatorship,

cliff


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Chris Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [nbpc] Fwd: RE: remove republicans!
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:44:10 -0500

Daryle, say it ain't so.  The irony is just too grand.  "One Peoples
Project", sans Republicans.  Are they not people as well?  What group is
next to be excluded from the so-called "One People"?  And on the whim of
these would-be authoritarian 'leftists'?  I thought you were more principled
than that.

Chris



From: <dlj@...>
Reply-To: <dlj@...>
To: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Subject: RE: remove republicans!
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:20:42 -0500

Done.


 >-----Original Message-----
 >From: joseph smith [mailto:can_bush@...]
 >Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:26 AM
 >Cc: dlj@...
 >Subject: remove republicans!

i propose that republicans should not be posting at onepeoplesproject &
njfo. specifically tracyford & frankbright. i will contact keith about
nbpeoplescampaign. -joe

_________________________________________________________________
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http://www.hotmail.com


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unite the many, defeat the few!


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2465
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-18 21:16:48
Subject:RE: [nbpc] Fwd: RE: remove republicans!
Message:

allow me to try to "bring you down to my level"...

1st, 37% of the "electorate" is perhaps 15% of the actual national populace, 
"the peoples", so we are closer to the "enemy", which i, like everyone in 
class society, most definitely have.

(& this discussion also does not address the world population, which wd put 
a "republican vote %" into a thimble.)

of these republican votes, a small minority are active party members, that 
is, agents of the republican party, the enemy.  we do not necessarily oppose 
someone who voted republican, they may correct that mistake. we oppose 
members of the party.

why is the republican party the primary political enemy?

because it is the legal, open political organization of the imperial 
monopoly-capitalist ruling class. (who themselves are 6/10ths of 1% of the 
world population.)  the class which owns & controls the resources and wealth 
of the world, at the expense of the vast majority of the people, who are the 
ones that produce that wealth with their labor.

as marx sd, capital is accumulated labor, expropriated from the productive 
masses.

to the relevant point of the nbpc, the question is to replace the local 
democratic machine, with what? as we organize the overthrow, the vultures 
circle.

only a 'peoples' democratic workers' party', representing the interests of 
the masses of oppressed peoples, can move us forward.

peoples' campaign 2002
unite the many, defeat the few!

cliff




----Original Message Follows----
From: "Chris Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [nbpc] Fwd: RE: remove republicans!
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:02:27 -0500

I recognize that YOU have enemies, and I'm not surprised.

You'll have to be more concise, and define "people" for me in such a way
that it is apparent that "Republicans" are excluded from that group.  Since
Republicans and Republican-leaning voters constitute 37% of the electorate,
it occurs to me that to exclude 37% of the population from the term "The
People", and, indeed, demonize them as "the enemy", is nothing short of
absurd.  But perhaps you can convince me otherwise.  I encourage you to try.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: cliff smith [mailto:cliffsmith69@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:53 PM
To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [nbpc] Fwd: RE: remove republicans!


republicans are the enemy of the people.

you do recognize that there is an enemy, no?

peoples' democratic dictatorship,

cliff


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Chris Kozlowski" <razer@...>
Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [nbpc] Fwd: RE: remove republicans!
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:44:10 -0500

Daryle, say it ain't so.  The irony is just too grand.  "One Peoples
Project", sans Republicans.  Are they not people as well?  What group is
next to be excluded from the so-called "One People"?  And on the whim of
these would-be authoritarian 'leftists'?  I thought you were more principled
than that.

Chris



From: <dlj@...>
Reply-To: <dlj@...>
To: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Subject: RE: remove republicans!
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:20:42 -0500

Done.


  >-----Original Message-----
  >From: joseph smith [mailto:can_bush@...]
  >Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:26 AM
  >Cc: dlj@...
  >Subject: remove republicans!

i propose that republicans should not be posting at onepeoplesproject &
njfo. specifically tracyford & frankbright. i will contact keith about
nbpeoplescampaign. -joe

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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unite the many, defeat the few!


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2466
Sender:Joseph Kaminski <jkaminsk@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-18 22:31:44
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] Mumia - Death Penalty Thrown Out!!
Message:

very intelligent... i think most republicans are rather frightened by such
bold commentary

Joe Kaminski

On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, joseph smith wrote:

> 
> BEAT BACK BUSH!!!
> this message brought to you by the New Brunswick Peoples Campaign 2002-
> 
> http://wire.ap.org/APnews/?SITE=JRCPORT&FRONTID=HOME
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RUGreens-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2467
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-19 00:38:50
Subject:RE: remove republicans!
Message:

what is the republican party to you koz?
what about my proposal gives it the "whim of these would-be authoritarian 
leftists"?

we that organize to win have interests in annihilating the speech that 
supports & builds fascism? if these interests that i maintain have any 
authority, it is because these interests are supported by the people!

the board of education question needs 750 validated petition signatures from 
registered voters for 2002. can you(rs) accomplish any effort towards this? 
you've already lifted a finger in dec. nbpc is rollin.


>From: "Chris Kozlowski" <razer@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [nbpc] Fwd: RE: remove republicans!
>Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:44:10 -0500
>
>Daryle, say it ain't so.  The irony is just too grand.  "One Peoples
>Project", sans Republicans.  Are they not people as well?  What group is 
>next to be excluded from the so-called "One People"?  And on the whim of 
>these would-be authoritarian 'leftists'?  I thought you were more 
>principled than that.
>
>Chris
>
>
>
>From: <dlj@...>
>Reply-To: <dlj@...>
>To: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>Subject: RE: remove republicans!
>Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:20:42 -0500
>
>Done.
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: joseph smith [mailto:can_bush@...]
> >Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:26 AM
> >Cc: dlj@...
> >Subject: remove republicans!
>
>i propose that republicans should not be posting at onepeoplesproject & 
>njfo. specifically tracyford & frankbright. i will contact keith about  
>nbpeoplescampaign. -joe
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   nbpeoplescampaign@...
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>nbpeoplescampaign-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>







_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2468
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-19 00:41:28
Subject:Update on Sundiata and Alvaro
Message:

In Solidarity with our brothers Sundiata Acoli (African-American Political 
Prisoner) and Alvaro Luna Hernandez (Chicano Political Prisoner), The 
ProLibertad Freedom Campaign sends these updates out in hopes that folks 
will take sime time during the holiday season to send out letters in support 
of Acoli's removal from SHU and to send a support letter asking for Alvaro 
Luna Hernandez's legal material be sent to him for his hearing.

FREE SUNDIATA ACOLI AND ALVARO LUNA HERNANDEZ!!
FREE ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
The proLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
________________________________________
ACTION ALERT! PLEASE SUPPORT!
===========================
From: "shiriki unganisha" <shiriki@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:37 AM


Hotep,

Greetings, wanted to let everyone know that i received a card from
Sundiata dated December 9, 2001, when i went to the post office box today 
12-17-01. Just to share his sense of humor, he said "i hope you haven't 
started glowing in the dark from that beryllium, then again that could make 
things real interesting:-}."  Sundiata said he is doing alright, except he 
is still locked up. He is asking for everyone to write Ashcroft, that he is 
not worried about an investigation, however, he is concerned that they could 
try to set him up/scapegoat him.  So everybody lets get in gear and push 
this year out right, we got to have Sundiata out of SHU before his 65th 
B-Day on 1-14-02.

Love & Struggle,
Sista Shiriki

John Ashcroft, Atty. General
950 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
Washington,D.C.
PH:202-514-5331
Fax:202-353-1555

Kathleen Hawk Sawyer
Director Federal Bureau of Prisons
320 First St. NW
Washington,D.C. 20534
PH:202-307-6300
Fax:202-514-6878

Sundiata Acoli
(s/n squire 39794-066)
USP Allenwood
P.O. Box 3000
White Deer,PA 17887

www.afrikan.net/sundiata
___________________________________________________
Companera/os,

Ernesto in Houston here, dropping a line about Chicano Mexicano political 
prisoner Alvaro Luna Hernandez (recognized by Jericho and other 
organizations for his struggles for freedom) and the campaign to free 
Alvaro.

Alvaro reports he's doing well and sends his regards for your holidays.
Since his transfer to Hughes, Alvaro reports he is doing better; he is in 
general population (minimum custody compared to what he was dealing with at 
Beto) and is not facing half the nonsense he dealt with before. He's now 
closer to Sam in Waco and his mom and sister in Fort Worth, so he expects 
more visits. He is hoping to get hooked up with a job in the law library as 
a clerk. Great news. Those who know Alvaro are probably smiling about this 
idea! Alvaro is a very street-schooled guy when it comes to the intricacies 
of law.

Alvaro is still very much in need to his legal materials, so if you have not 
sent a letter to his old warden and the accounting office, please do it 
today by requesting all materials left over from his transfer from Beto be 
sent to Hughes immediately. Alvaro has a court date on his federal writ 
coming up and he desperately needs those materials. Letters should go to:

R. E. Thompson
Senior Warden
P.O. Box 128
Tennessee Colony, Texas 75861-0128

AND

Compliance Office
Access to Courts
P.O. Box 99
Huntsville, TX 77342

If you want to send him lit, go for it. I am thrilled to report I've
managed to send in three packets of his campaign flyers without a problem 
(they were returned every time from Beto), so the place seems less of a 
lockdown situation. His new address is:

Alvaro Luna Hernandez
#255735
Hughes Unit
Rt. 2, Box 4400
Gatesville, TX 76597

He'd love to hear from everyone.

Two issues I wish to solicit you all--

Alvaro Jr. (Alvaro's 5 1/2 year old son) currently lives with his maternal 
grandmother and Alvaro says the boy is doing well. He started public school 
recently and seems happy and great, under the circumstances (he was only an 
infant when Alvaro went to prison). However, Alvaro Jr. faces an uphill 
battle, not the least of which is his family struggling to get by. Something 
I approached Alvaro about, and of which he felt very enthusiastic, was 
possibly gathering some support to send Alvaro Jr. a small amount from 
supporters (monthly or bimonthly) to help with the incidentals a five year 
old goes through (food, etc.). The statistics for youth who follow their 
parents to prison in Texas is shocking (6 in 10 kids), and it's important 
those of means can help our brother's familia if We can. It's not a 
replacement for his father, but if Alvaro Jr. isn't going without food or 
the things all kids need, he's less likely to face difficulties down the 
line. Get back to me if you're interested.

Another issue I have noticed is coming up in our work around Alvaro's case 
is a lack of regular information flow to the larger movement in a more 
organized way. A lot of campaigns face this situation, I've noticed. Usually 
it's because so much of the effort is geared around court dates and what 
have you. I accept some criticism on this issue. How can we keep a regular 
communication going with supporters Alvaro has touched base with and others 
involved in the struggle? One thing I had considered was a monthly 
'newsletter' style update (maybe a back and front page) on latest in his 
case, Alvaro, Alvaro Jr., ways people could support/are supporting Alvaro's 
freedom, etc. Is there any interest in this? Please share your thoughts.

Thank you!

Ernesto Aguilar
for the Alvaro Luna Hernandez National Freedom Coalition
For a bio on Alvaro, check out: www.freealvaro.org













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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2469
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-19 00:54:35
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] Mumia - Death Penalty Thrown Out!!
Message:

DEAR FRIENDS,

I, TRACY FORD, IS PUBLIC ENEMY NO. #1 OF THE PEOPLE, ACCORDING TO JOE
AND CLIFF SMITH. I HAS RESIDE IN MIDDLESEX COUNTY FOR MY ENTIRE LIFE. A
TECHNICIAN AT ROBERT WOOD JOHNSON HOSPITAL. I AM ALSO A MINISTER OF THE
MOUNT CALVARY MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH IN NEW BRUNSWICK. MY WIFE VIDA
AND HAVE FOUR, JOSHUA, SHADRACH, MESHACH, AND ABEDNEGO. I AM DEDICATED
TO MAKING  NEW BRUNSWICK, MIDDLESEX COUNTY, NEW JERSEY A GREAT PLACE TO
LIVE, WORK, AND RAISE A FAMILY. I AM THE PERSON WHO WILL MAKE A
DIFFERENCE AND HAS THE ENERGY, VISION, AND EXPERIENCE TO DO IT. I THANK
YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU,
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2470
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-19 07:57:07
Subject:convicted nb cops trying to get off
Message:

this message brought to you by New Brunswick Peoples Campaign:


http://www.nj.com/njcommunities/ledger/middlesex/index.ssf?/njcommunities/ledger/middlesex/1559102.html




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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2471
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-20 23:49:34
Subject:COINTELPRO and The Patriot Act
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign wants folks to make sure to read and 
forward out this very good article on the Patriot Act and COINTELPRO.  In 
these hostile times, it is important we maintain ourselves on point with 
information about government repression and our civil liberties.

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
____________________________________________________

The Ghost of COINTELPRO
Earl Ofari Hutchinson, AlterNet
December 14, 2001

Attorney General John Ashcroft has made a public pitch to dump the 
guidelines put in place in the 1970s that ban FBI spying on domestic 
organizations.

Ashcroft says the guidelines are obsolete and hinder the hunt for domestic 
terrorists. Eliminating them would give the FBI carte blanche authority to 
surveil, and plant agents in churches, mosques and of course, political 
groups. It would also permit FBI agents to interrogate individuals. They 
could do all this without having to show probable cause of criminal 
wronging.

The FBI would again have unbridled power to determine what groups and 
individuals it could target.

Ashcroft is banking that most Americans and public officials have a short or 
no memory of the colossal havoc the super-secret, and blatantly illegal 
counter-intelligence COINTELPRO program wreaked on the lives of thousands of 
innocent Americans during the 1950s and 1960s. The mandate of the program, 
spelled out in one of the piles of secret documents released by Senate 
investigators in 1976, was to "disrupt, misdirect, discredit, and 
neutralize" groups and individuals the FBI considered politically 
objectionable. Those targeted were not foreign spies, terrorists, or 
suspected of criminal acts.

The FBI patterned COINTELPRO on the methods used by its Counter-intelligence 
Division and Internal Security Sections during the 1940s and 1950s. The aim 
then was to nail spies, saboteurs, and individuals and groups that advocated 
overthrowing the government. The arsenal of dirty tactics included non-court 
authorized wiretaps, undercover plants, agent provocateurs, poison pen 
letters, black bag jobs, and the compiling of secret dossiers. Local FBI 
offices were given wide discretion to pick its targets and the tactics they 
could use.

In those years, the FBI's favored targets were the Communist Party and the 
Socialist Workers Party. But this changed in the mid-1960s. Driven by a 
grotesque mix of personal racism and paranoia, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover 
kicked the program into even higher gear. His goal was to demolish the Black 
Muslims, Black Panthers, civil rights organizations and their leaders, 
especially Martin Luther King. The FBI assembled a small army of more than 
7,500 "ghetto informants" (known) and hundreds of FBI agents in a deadly 
national campaign to harass and intimidate thousands of African-Americans.

The FBI listed the individuals targeted under categories variously called, 
"Rabble Rouser Index," "Agitator Index," and the "Security Index." The 
results were immediate and devastating. Thousands were expelled from 
schools, lost jobs, evicted from their homes, and offices, and publicly 
slandered. Few of these individuals were indicted, convicted or even accused 
of any crimes. FBI documents released in 1976 revealed that the agency 
devoted less than 20 percent of its spy activities to organized crime, 
solving bank robberies, murders, rapes and interstate theft. By contrast, 
more than half of its spy targets were political groups.

In 1967, the FBI dredged up yet another ominous tactic it its secret war: 
preventative detention. FBI officials in the Philadelphia office boasted 
that they had jailed members of the Black Nationalist group, RAM, on any 
charge they could think of. RAM members were held for months with no charges 
filed, and with no hint that any would be. Hoover was thrilled at the 
illegal detention tactic and ordered all 41 FBI field offices to copy it.

Three decades later it has carbon copied this tactic to round up and detain 
more than 1,000 persons in its search for accomplices in the September 11 
terror massacre. Most of the detainees, as was the case with the RAM 
members, have not been charged with any crimes. A study by the Justice 
Department found that nearly 70 percent of the detainees were released with 
no charges filed. Not one of those currently in custody is charged with 
conspiracy in the September 11 terror massacre. The Justice Department has 
given no indication that any indictments are forthcoming for terrorist 
activities.

With the death of Hoover in 1974 and congressional disclosure of the illegal 
program, the Justice Department publicly assured that COINTELPRO was a thing 
of the hideous past and that it had implemented ironclad control over FBI 
activities. The obituary was premature. During the 1980s the FBI waged a 
five-year covert war against CISPES, and 215 religious and pacifist groups 
and leaders that opposed American foreign policy in Central America. In the 
1990s it mounted covert campaigns against Silo Plowshares, an anti-nuclear 
weapons group, Earth First, the American Indian Movement, and Arab-American 
groups during the 1991 Gulf War. The FBI tactics were reruns of those the 
Justice Department swore were dead and buried.

Ashcroft hasn't yet decided whether he'll scrap the guidelines. If he does, 
he solemnly promises that the FBI will not trample on the rights and 
liberties of religious and political groups. That's a promise the thousands 
whose lives were ruined by COINTELPRO will find hard to believe.


Earl Ofari Hutchinson is an author and columnist. Visit his news and opinion 
Web site: www.thehutchinsonreport.com


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2472
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-21 10:57:06
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: Argentine Leader Quits as Economy Begins a Free Fall
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


"Assassins, assassins, assassins!"

this message provided by new brunswick peoples campaign.

can_bush@...

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\----------------------------------------------------------/


Argentine Leader Quits as Economy Begins a Free Fall

December 21, 2001 

By CLIFFORD KRAUSS


President Fernando de la R�a resigned on Thursday, swamped
by violent protests and looting that erupted when his
government failed to reverse an economic crisis.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/21/international/americas/21ARGE.html?ex=1009950226&ei=1&en=15dbb91fb3e37460



HOW TO ADVERTISE
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help@....  

Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2473
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-21 14:34:27
Subject:Re: remove republicans!
Message:

We are accused by 'Unity & Struggle' representative Keith Joseph of being 
members of the Democratic Party, because of our opposition to the 
Republicans Party.  (to Joe Smith, "the most militant member of the 
democratic party" --Keith Joseph, 12/21/01)

The posture is that we "sold out" the people, but does this accusation come 
from the point of view of the people, or of the Republican Party?

(1st we reference: "First it is absolutely necessary that Revolutionaries 
and all Anti-Imperialists, Radicals, and Progressive people UNITE in an all 
peoples' UNITED FRONT AGAINST THE RIGHT WING & its Klan, Nazi, Lynch mob 
underground, as well as the Corporate Running Dog visible forces in 
Government, Politics, Wall Street, Media, Academia, Institutions, 
Organizations!" Amiri Baraka, 'Unity & Struggle', April 2000.)

In Democratic New Brunswick, 2000, Keith Joseph fought the local Democrats 
by running for city council as a registered Republican, attended local 
Republican Party meetings, voted Frank Bright to chair the local GOP, 
elected Bright to the steering committee of his council campaign.  Bright 
has since been appointed by the NJ State Department of Community Affairs to 
the NB Housing Authority.

We opposed alliance with Republicans, and were expelled from Keith Joseph's 
council campaign, May, 2000.

'Unity & Struggle' representative Keith Joseph, as registered Republican, 
took no open position on the 2000 Bush/Gore election.  The paper, 'Unity & 
Struggle' was kept out of production the duration of the election, from 
April, 2000 until May, 2001, after we had finally directly contacted Amiri 
to press for production. (& we have again not seen it since September, at no 
great help to Ras' council campaign, not to mention the ignored recent NJ 
gubenatorial election, or developing fascist US "Patriot" moves.  Meanwhile 
we are banned from the paper as it represents a "definite trend".)

In 1998, we were obstructed from participating in Ras' council campaign, or 
any 'Unity & Struggle' activity, by Keith Joseph.

In the 1996 Clinton/Dole election, 'Unity & Struggle' representative Keith 
Joseph promoted the Republican support line: "Revolutionaries Boycott!".  
Amiri's line "Attack Clinton/Defeat Dole!" was kept out of 'Unity & 
Struggle' publication until after the election.

We opposed "Boycott!" and were expelled by Keith Joseph from the 'Unity & 
Struggle' New Brunswick study circle, Central Jersey Communist Union, and 
the New Jersey Freedom Organization, May-August, 1996.

Every organization we have participated in with Keith Joseph, he has 
endorsed Republican positions, and expelled us for our opposition.  This, 
therefore, must mean we are "militant Democrats", (in order to disqualify 
us).

Except that we have "militantly" opposed the Democratic Party in New 
Brunswick in every election since 1990, when we arrived.  While Keith Joseph 
has neglected electoral politics as "drudgery", until his own campaign as a 
Republican.

Joe Smith, for fighting the Democrats in 2000 local election (while we also 
maintained "Smoke Bush!", which brought the Secret Service to our homes), is 
currently serving 1 year probation, 10 days jail (suspended), 30 days 
community service, and $500 fines for his efforts.

'Unity & Struggle' did not cover the trial.

Perhaps someone can bring to Keith Joseph's attention that Ras Baraka's 
campaign meets every Saturday 9:30am at 808 so. 10th st. to do work.
'Take it Personal.'  We welcome all "militant Democrats".

                     --------------------------

                     Story Source: The Rutgers Daily Targum
                     12/04/01

                     University College sophomore Joe Smith finally had his 
day in court yesterday. Smith, a leading force behind the Campaign for an 
Elected Board of Education � which tried unsuccessfully last year to get 
city residents to approve a referendum to elect members to the board of 
education � charged Mayor Jim Cahill's aide Kevin Jones with assault last 
year, after Jones allegedly punched Smith in the face during an Election Day 
altercation at a polling site in November of 2000.

                      William Pfeifer, chief maintenance engineer at the 
city Water Utility, also charged Joe Smith with assault, criminal mischief 
and littering...while Pfeifer and his colleague, Tom Rudolph, posted signs 
advertising the Democratic Party slate � which opposed the school board 
referendum � in the area around Commercial Avenue.

                     Judge Edward Herman dismissed Cliff Smith's verbal 
assault charge after New Brunswick High School Principal Pierre Embrey, who 
filed the charge, did not attend trial yesterday. The charge arose in 
relation to Cliff Smith's distribution of campaign literature outside the 
school in September of 2000.

                     Yesterday's trial was fraught with anxiety as 
prosecutors attempted to negotiate with the Smith brothers in order to reach 
settlements and steer clear of going to trial, but the Smiths maintained 
their innocence and refused any deal. Attorneys on both sides deliberated in 
the hours leading up to the appearance before Herman, but did not reach any 
agreement by the time of the hearing.

                     --------------------------






----Original Message Follows----
From: "Keith Joseph" <keithjoseph99@...>
To: can_bush@..., Amirib@..., cliffsmith69@..., 
Lknesta@...
CC: jmodibo@..., vivaohio@...
Subject: Re: remove republicans!
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 17:57:23 +0000

the most militant member of the democratic party


>From: "joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
>To: Amirib@..., cliffsmith69@..., Lknesta@...
>CC: jmodibo@..., vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
>Subject: Re: remove republicans!
>Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 21:18:08 -0500
>
>
>and they are not welcome either.
>they can support us from without if they choose, not from within.
>
>you see, nbpc represents a trend that will no longer allow for the 
>republican party to become stronger through our work. no thanks to previous 
>performances by U&S. -joe
>
>
>>From: Amirib@...
>>To: can_bush@...
>>CC: jmodibo@..., vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...,     
>>    Lknesta@hotmail
>>Subject: Re: remove republicans!
>>Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:11:05 EST
>>
>>There's worser "'publicans" dan dem...in case u hasn't hoid!
>>
>>
>
>
>
>










unite the many, defeat the few!


_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2474
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-22 11:23:37
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: U.S. Inquiry Tried, but Failed, to Link Iraq to Anthrax Attack
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


US out of IRAQ!
Support Self-Determination for All Nations.

Message forwarded by New Brunswick Peoples Campaign.

can_bush@...

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\----------------------------------------------------------/


U.S. Inquiry Tried, but Failed, to Link Iraq to Anthrax Attack

December 22, 2001 

By WILLIAM J. BROAD with DAVID JOHNSTON


The Bush administration made an intense effort to find a
link between Iraq and the anthrax attacks, even after
scientists determined the germ was an American strain.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/22/national/22INQU.html?ex=1010038216&ei=1&en=305c19c5376255d4



HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
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New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson 
Racer at alyson@... or visit our online media 
kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo

For general information about NYTimes.com, write to 
help@....  

Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2475
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-22 09:12:22
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: In Largest Schools Takeover, State Will Run Philadelphia's
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


Defend Public Education!
Oppose the Corporate take over!
Solidarity to the Association, staff, & 
students of the Philly Public Schools.

Forwarded by New Brunswick Peoples Campaign.

can_bush@...

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\----------------------------------------------------------/


In Largest Schools Takeover, State Will Run Philadelphia's

December 22, 2001 

By JACQUES STEINBERG


The governor of Pennsylvania won the agreement of the mayor
of Philadelphia for an immediate state takeover of the
city's public school system.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/22/education/22PHIL.html?ex=1010030342&ei=1&en=94dee8f5b070f471



HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
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New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson 
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2476
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-23 18:06:50
Subject:Special Mumia Meeting-Dec. 26th
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign asks that folks take time out to come to 
this meeting and get updated on the current situtation with Mumia Abu 
Jamal's case.  Please attend and support!!

FREE MUMIA!!
The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244
_________________________________________________________________
THIS WEDNESDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 26, 7:00 pm at the Martin Luther
King Jr. Labor Center, 310 W. 43rd ST. Pam Africa of International
Concerned Family and Friends of Mumia Abu-Jamal  will speak at a
meeting sponsored by the New York Free Mumia Abu-Jamal Coalition:

Come to hear her assessment of the decision last week by Federal
District Court Judge William Yohn, vacating Mumia Abu-Jamal's
original death sentencebut leaving his conviction for first degree
murder standing. There will be ample time for questions and
discussion.

The courts have finally been forced, for the first time in the twenty
year history of Mumia's case, to make some concession to the truth:
*Everything* about Mumia's trial was unfair. It was a frame-up from
start to finish.

Judge Yohn has now acknowledged this about the sentencing phase,
which is an important crack in the previously monolithic face of the
legal and political establishment. His decision is clearly a result
of the world-wide movement of support for Mumia, in particular the
campaign over the past year to put forward the case for his innocence
based on the Arnold Beverly confession and all the other facts which
have now been revealed. But there is still an uphill battle ahead to
win Mumia's release from prison. Life without parole is not an
acceptable alternative.

Below find the text of a message sent out last week, describing Yohn's
decision and its legal implications, and announcing the meeting on
Wednesday evening. Join us there to discuss what all this means and
help chart the next steps in our campaign to FREE MUMIA!

_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2477
Sender:"cliff smith" <cliffsmith69@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-23 21:27:25
Subject:the long kiss goodnight
Message:

1996
starring samuel l jackson and geena davis
at blockbuster

"budget cuts, dear.  congress blindsided us overseas.  i had to turn to any 
eyes and ears i cd find even if it meant turning to the quote unquote 
badguys here."

"budget cuts? is that what this is about? yr running a fundraiser?"

"1993.  world trade center bombing, remember?  at the trial one of the 
bombers claimed the cia had advance knowledge.  hell the diplomat who issued 
the terrorists visas was cia.  its not unthinkable we paved the way for the 
bombing purely to get a budget increase."

"yr gonna fake some terrorist thing just to scare some money out of 
congress?"

"well, unfortunately, mr hennessy (samuel l jackson's character), i have no 
idea how to fake killing 4000 people.  we're just gonna have to do it for 
real.  blame it on the moslems, naturally.  then i get my funding."






unite the many, defeat the few!


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2478
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-24 00:50:08
Subject:Re: [nbpc] the long kiss goodnight
Message:

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL US?

1.]GOV'T LOW DOWN
2.] IT'S TIME TO REFINANCE
3.]GOD BLESS AMERICA
  
LOOKING AHEAD, THINGS SEEM ROSIER



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2479
Sender:can_bush@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-25 12:27:34
Subject:NYTimes.com Article: Consequences for the United States in Argentina's Collapse
Message:

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by can_bush@....


message forwarded by New Brunswick Peoples Campaign.

	

can_bush@...

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special holiday prices.
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\----------------------------------------------------------/


Consequences for the United States in Argentina's Collapse

December 25, 2001 

By LARRY ROHTER


Argentina's financial collapse is also a blow to the United
States and the International Monetary Fund.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/25/international/americas/25ARGE.html?ex=1010301254&ei=1&en=5b7dd7976bf78216



HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters 
or other creative advertising opportunities with The 
New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson 
Racer at alyson@... or visit our online media 
kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo

For general information about NYTimes.com, write to 
help@....  

Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2480
Sender:"Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-27 09:00:42
Subject:Invite: Sonia Sanchez Reception for Ras 2000
Message:

Spend a night with one of our great living revolutionary poets & help 
Newark's Son Rise...

"Taking it Personal" Ras Baraka for Newark City Council 2002


----Original Message Follows----
From: Amirib@...
To: jmodibo@..., vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
Subject: (no subject)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 21:45:45 EST


NO KIMAKO'S 29 DEC.     THURS JAN 3,  9:30PMCOMMITTEE TO ELECT RAS BARAKA
PRESENTS   A RECEPTION FOR SONIA SANCHEZ  808 S.10TH NEWARK, NJ
973 242-1346     AMIRI B





_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2481
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-29 01:32:53
Subject:Re: Invite: Sonia Sanchez Reception for Ras 2000
Message:

spend saturdays with our great living community of newark & help register it 
to vote... 808 south 10 st.

"Taking it Personal" Ras Baraka for Newark City Council 2002
__________________________________________________________________

how's keith gunna be down, didn't ras speak on a panel w/payne?

revolutionaries seek unity w/militant democrats, whereas u&s' position  
allies w/the (b)right.


>From: "Matthew Smith" <vivaohio@...>
>Reply-To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com
>To: nbpeoplescampaign@yahoogroups.com, poprogress@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nbpc] Invite: Sonia Sanchez Reception for Ras 2000
>Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 14:00:42
>
>Spend a night with one of our great living revolutionary poets & help
>Newark's Son Rise...
>
>"Taking it Personal" Ras Baraka for Newark City Council 2002
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: Amirib@...
>To: jmodibo@..., vivaohio@..., keithjoseph99@...
>Subject: (no subject)
>Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 21:45:45 EST
>
>
>NO KIMAKO'S 29 DEC.     THURS JAN 3,  9:30PMCOMMITTEE TO ELECT RAS BARAKA
>PRESENTS   A RECEPTION FOR SONIA SANCHEZ  808 S.10TH NEWARK, NJ
>973 242-1346     AMIRI B
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>





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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2482
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-29 02:10:25
Subject:NEW PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONER
Message:

>[Unable to display image]
>NOT ONE DAY OF JAIL FOR PEDRO COLON ALMENAS!!
>NO MORE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
>FREE ALL THE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
>
>The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign urgently asks all our supporters and 
>allies to please forward this message out to as many sources and lists as 
>you can. Pedro Colon Almenas, a young activist targeted by the colonial 
>Puerto Rican government, will face sentencing on Tuesday January 22nd, 2002 
>in Puerto Rico for a crime he did not commit by a pro-Navy ex-JAG lawyer 
>Judge Hector Lafitte; who has made it his practice of dishing out 
>unconstitutional and outrageous sentences for people who have engaged in 
>civil disobedience in Vieques.  Officially he is being charged with 
>aggravated assault against a Military Official and could face up to 31/2 
>years in prison.
>
>His trial (A COMPLETE TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE), his charges, and sentencing are 
>all a result of the ongoing repression of anti-Navy, pro-independence and 
>socialist activists in Puerto Rico.  This young man is going to be 
>imprisoned unjustly and severely for no reason except that is a student 
>leader, socialist (member of the Union de Juventud Socialista and the 
>Movimiento Socialista de los Trabajadores) and anti-colonial activist.  
>Much like the current 6 Puerto Rican Political Prisoners  in U.S. Jails, 
>Pedro Colon Almenas is being railroaded by a racist and imperialist legal 
>system that exists to maintain Puerto Rico's colonial status.
>
>Again, his trial and the charges brought up against him were fabricated and 
>unfounded.  Please make sure to visit http://www.bandera.org/pedro/ to 
>learn more about Pedro's case (all in spanish, ProLibertad will be 
>translating and forwarding information on his case from the website).
>
>Please be on the lookout for more information on Pedro Colon Almenas and 
>any actions in New York City and Puerto Rico on his behalf.
>
>The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign has sent this email message out in
>solidarity with the Comite de Apoyo de Pedro ( an organization in Puerto 
>Rico that is working on Pedro's behalf).
>
>The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign
>ProLibertad@...
>www.ProLibertad.org
>Bronx 718-601-4751
>Manhattan 212-927-9065
>New Jersey 201-435-3244


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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2483
Sender:"benjamin ramos" <uriyoan@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-29 15:09:17
Subject:Vieques Political Prisoners!!
Message:

The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign, in solidarity with the struggle to remove 
the U.S. Navy out of Vieques, is forwarding this message about the current 
Vieques Political Prisoners so that people write to them and the 
institutions they are in demanding their freedom.  Now more than ever, 
solidarity is needed!!

FREE ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
The proLibertad Freedom Campaign
ProLibertad@...
www.ProLibertad.org
Bronx 718-601-4751
Manhattan 212-927-9065
New Jersey 201-435-3244

____________________________________
VIEQUES POLITICAL PRISONERS!!
Sen. Norma Burgos 21551-069
Cacimar Zen�n Encarnaci�n 19532-069
Pedro Zen�n Encarnaci�n 19532-069

MDC Guaynabo
PO BOX 2147
San Juan, PR  00922-2147

______________________________________________________________________
AND REMEMBER OUR PRISONER OF CONSCIENCE HERE IN NEW YORK; PLEASE WRITE THE 
MMC AND DEMAND HE BE RETURNED TO PUERTO RICO!!
Alberto "Tito Kayak" de Jes�s Mercado 19580-069

Gregory Park, Warden
Metropolitan Correctional Center - Manhattan
150 Park Row
New York, NY 10007

____________________________________________________________________
****QUICK UPDATE ON MORE VIEQUS POLITICAL PRISONERS*****
Brothers, Angel Manuel and H�ctor Ventura, Viequense fishermen, were 
sentenced by federal judge Dominguez, to three days in the federal prison in 
Guaynabo, beginning the 8th of January.  They were arrested while fishing in 
waters the Navy claims as �theirs�, but that everyone here recognizes as 
part of Vieques.



_________________________________________________________________
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2484
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-30 12:04:05
Subject:COMMITTEE TO ELECT RAS BARAKA
Message:


COMMITTEE TO ELECT RAS BARAKA
808 S.10TH ST. NEWARK,NJ 07108
"TAKE IT PERSONAL" -RAS BARAKA
973 242-1346  Fax 242-1509  E-mail rasjuabaraka@...
Dec 29, 2001

DEAR FOLKS INTERESTED IN DEMOCRACY &CHANGE,
Ras Baraka is running for Councilman-at Large, in the Newark municipal
elections, May 14,  2002.
Ras is 32 years old. He was graduated from Howard University with a BA
in Political Science.  In May 2001 , Ras  received his Masters degree in 
Education,  at St Peter's University, Jersey City, NJ.   After teaching 8th 
grade at Warren St.  Elementary School in Newark for ten years, since 
leaving Howard and returning home, he was recently appointed Vice Principal 
of Burnett St. School, in Newark.
   Ras is one of those young people who listened to the most advanced voices 
in the civil rights movement, as he was growing up,  who said , "go to 
school, get an education, then come back home and help the people" -
Ras did just that he went to Howard and come back to run within his first 
year out for mayor. In 1998 Ras Baraka won the General Election for 
Councilman- at Large, but in the "Run-0ff" election, which the ACLU and 
other commentators on the Voting Rights Act of 65 said should be illegal 
because such "Run-Offs" allow back ward forces to gang up on black or grass 
roots candidates. So, in some weird "reversal", Ras lost by a few hundred 
votes to a candidate he beat in the general election , who somehow moved 
past him.
The critical issue of the coming campaign is the STRUGGLE FOR DEMOCRACY, 
including the restoration of Citizens' Right To Speak at City Council 
Meetings, which the present City Council has BANNED!  This democratic 
struggle must include the fight to see that all children receive a thorough 
and efficient EDUCATION, a campaign to STOP KILLER COPS AND CREATE A 
DEMOCRATIC ELECTED POLICE CONTROL BOARD so that the police are controlled by 
the people not the reverse.
>     There is also the question of the city's DEVELOPMENT, I.E., HOW MUCH 
>COOPERATION AND CITIZEN INPUT WILL NEWARK'S CITIZENS GAIN IN THE BUILDING 
>THE CITY'S SO CALLED RENAISSANCE. Ras speaks for the a peoples Newark not a 
>privatized or corporately controlled city.
      The campaign will be grueling and costly, and to compete with the
soft money and other means of control the wealthy and big corporations 
impose on all  elections, we have to raise, minimally, S75,000
  So we are asking people to support their own development. Ras is running 
again, not as an exercise in altruism or ego, but so that the people might 
begin to lay their hands on the resources of this city, which are supposed 
to be theirs.  Campaign expenses will be roughly $50,000. But whatever you 
give will be deeply appreciated and utilized to the fullest extent to run a 
Campaign for People's Democracy!
GENERAL  EXPENSES FROM JAN 02 TILL ELECTION DAY & GOTV:
Literature      $5000
Phones               3500
H.q. Rental       4000
Transpo           2500
Office               5000
Adv (Media)     5000
Total             $25,000

           ELECTION DAY -GET OUT THE VOTE (GOTV)    $25,000
Poll Workers (132 sites 2 ea. @ $75)      $19, 800
Breakfast/Lunch 264 poll workers            2,000
Communications 5 Cell Phones                  500
Rental Passenger Van Voter Pick ups            200
5 U-Haul Rental Pick ups                        500
500 Baraka T-shirts                           2,500

   Another way we are using to raise campaign dollars is the celebrity
auction you see enclosed in this letter. You can bid on these items through 
email RasjuaBaraka@...

                            "TAKE IT PERSONAL!"
                                                                    Amina & 
Amiri Baraka
Make Checks Payable to "Committee To Elect Ras Baraka"

_________________________________________________________________
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Post ID:2485
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-30 17:54:01
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] COMMITTEE TO ELECT RAS BARAKA
Message:

DEAR JOE SMITH,

WHICH COURSE FOR THE GLOBAL CAPITALIST ECONOMY?: DEEPENING RECESSION,
THEN "RECOVERY"- OR DEPRESSION?

THANK YOU,
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2486
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-30 21:25:18
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] COMMITTEE TO ELECT RAS BARAKA
Message:

DEAR JOE SMITH,

THERE IS LITTLE DOUBT THAT THE GLOBAL CAPITALIST ECONOMY IS IN
RECESSION, WITH THE TWO BIGGEST ECONOMIES, THOSE OF THE UNITED STATES
AND JAPAN,ADMITTEDLY IN RECESSION NATURALLY, THIS MEANS INCREASED
HARDSHIPS FOR THE INTERNATIONAL WORKING CLASS WITH :INCREASING PLANT
CLOSURES AND TEMPORARY AND PERMANENT UNEMPLOYMENT; DECLINING REAL WAGES
THROUGH REDUCED WORKING HOURS OR DOWNSIZED INTO LOWER WAGE JOBS;
ESCALATING HOMELESSNESS AND HUNGER;ETC.WHILE THE CURRENT WORLDWIDE
RECESSION IS HIGHLY LIKELY TO GET WORSE,THE BIG QUESTION FOR THE INTER,L
WORKING CLASS IS : WHAT TO DO IN THE FACE OF THIS DETERIORATING
ECONOMIC SITUATION AND STANDARD OF LIVING?; AND, WHETHER THERE WILL BE A
RECOVERY, EVEN A SO CALLED,"RECOVERY", OR WHETHER THE
INEVITABLE,"GREATEST",WORLD-WIDE CAPITALIST DEPRESSION WILL FOLLOW
SHORTLY? TO THE FIRST PART OF THIS BIG QUESTION,WE STRONGLY ADVOCATE
CLASS EDUCATION, AGITATION, ORGANIZATION AND STRUGGLE!

THANK YOU,
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2487
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-30 22:30:25
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] COMMITTEE TO ELECT RAS BARAKA
Message:

DEAR JOE SMITH,

BOURGEOIS ECONOMISTS ADMIT THAT RECESSIONS ARE A' NATURAL' 
PART OF CAPITALIST ECONOMIC LIFE [AND SO WE WORKERS HAVE TO 
'LEARN' TO ACCEPT AND LIVE WITH 
 TEMPORARY, ASSOCIATED UNPLEASANTRIES OF THESE HARD TIMES,WHICH WE,
UNFORTUNATELY,CHIEFLY DO].BUT THESE SAME ECONOMISTS WILL RARELY EVER
ADMIT THAT CAPITALIST DEPRESSION ARE ALSO A 'NATURAL' PART OF UNDER THE
CAPITALIST SYSTEM AND THUS INEVITABLE. HOWEVER,OVER 200 HUNDRED YEAR OF
CAPITALISM PROVES THAT CAPITALIST DEPRESSIONS GENERALLY OCCUR EVERY 20
TO 50 YEARS ACCORDINGLY, CAPITALISM IS OVERDUE FOR ANOTHER DEPRESSION!
WE ARGUE THAT IT WILL BE THE "GREATEST''-ECLIPSING IN SCOPE AND DEPTH
THE HORRENDOUS UNEMPLOYMENT ,POVERTY, HUNGER, STARVATION, ETC. OF THE
LAST "GREAT" DEPRESSION OF THE 1930"-BECAUSE CAPITALISM IS NOW A GLOBAL
SYSTEM WITH A ENORMOUS "OVER-PRODUCTION" OF THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION AND
UNPAYABLE GOVERNMENT, BUSINESS AND PERSONAL DEBT.

THANK YOU,
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2488
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-30 23:12:47
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] COMMITTEE TO ELECT RAS BARAKA
Message:

DEAR JOE SMITH,

YET,THE BOURGEOIS ECONOMISTS ARE CORRECT IN SAYING THAT CAPITALISM MUST
"EXPAND OR DIE (GO OUT OF BUSINESS INDIVIDUALLY, AND GO INTO RECESSION
OR DEPRESSION IN SOCIETY).THE FUNDAMENTAL BASIS FOR THE EXTREME
"OVER-PRODUCTION" OF THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION IS ROOTED NOT ONLY IN THE
GENERAL ANARCHY OF THE  CAPITALIST MODE OF PRODUCTION (WITH EVERY
CAPITALIST SEEKING TO EXPAND RATHER THAN DIE), WHERE THE MEANS OF
PRODUCTION ARE THE PRIVATE PROPERTY OF THE CAPITALIST: BUT ALSO IN FACT
THAT THE CAPITALIST MUST PAY US WORKERS IN WAGES OR SALARIES LESS THAN
THE VALUE OF WHAT WE PRODUCE IN TERMS OF GOODS AND SERVICES (MARX"S
TERMS  FOR THIS IS EXPLOITATION-WAGE SLAVERY), WHICH IS THE SOURCE OF
PROFITS FOR THE CAPITALIST CLASS (AND ANOTHER CAPITALIST ECONOMIC
NECESSITY TO EXPAND).THUS,THE INTERNATIONAL WORKING CLASS DOESN'T HAVE
THE NECESSARY MONEY TO BUY BACK FROM THE INTERNATIONAL CAPITALIST CLASS
ALL THE GOODS AND SERVICES THAT WE WORKER OURSELVES PRODUCED. CAPITALISM
IS ABLE TO TEMPORARILY  MITIGATE THESE ESSENTIAL CONTRADICTIONS THROUGH
EXPANSION AND CREDIT, WHICH HAVE REACHED THEIR LIMIT AT PRESENT : THUS,
AT LEAST,THE CURRENT, GLOBAL CAPITALIST RECESSION.

THANK YOU,
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2489
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-31 00:37:23
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] COMMITTEE TO ELECT RAS BARAKA
Message:

DEAR JOE SMITH,

THE FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD IN THE UNITED STATES  HAS REPEATEDLY REDUCED
INTEREST RATES-AND MAY CONTINUE TO DO SO-IN A FUTILE ATTEMPT TO
"STIMULATE " CAPITALIST INVESTMENT IN EXPANDING THE MEAN OF PRODUCTION
THROUGH IMPLEMENTING NEW TECHNOLOGY AND BUILDING NEW PRODUCTIVE
CAPACITY.THIS IS BOUND TO FAIL:IN JAPAN , THE INTEREST RATE HAS BEEN
REDUCES TO ZERO AND THIS HAS FAILED TO "STIMULATE" THEIR CAPITALIST
ECONOMY,WHICH IS ACTUALLY TURNING DEFLATIONARY WITH ALL THE PREDATORY
IMPLICATIONS FOR WORKER THERE.LIKEWISE, PLANNED TAX CUTS BY THE US
GOVERNMENT  OF BIG BUSINESS FOR CORPORATION WILL FAIL TO "STIMULATE" THE
US ECONOMY FOR THE SAME REASON OF "EXCESS" PRODUCTIVE CAPACITY GLOBALLY
, ALTHOUGH IT WILL HELP PROP UP PROFITS O A CERTAIN EXTENT AND THE
OBSCENE SALARIES OF CEO. THERE IS APPARENTLY NOTHING THAT THE CAPITALIST
MANAGERS OF THE ECONOMY CAN DO TO PULL THE GLOBAL  CAPITALIST ECONOMY
OUT OF RECESSION . WHETHER THIS  WORLD-WIDE CAPITALIST RECESSION WILL
EVENTUALLY RUN ITS COURSE AND MAKE A SO CALLED"RECOVERY'-OR WHETHER IT
WILL SINK INTO THE INEVITABLE,"GREATEST" CAPITALIST DEPRESSION
SHORTLY-REMAIN TO BE SEEN. IT COULD GO EITHER WAY.

THANK YOU,
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2490
Sender:TRACYFORD1420@...
Post Date/Time:2001-12-31 01:07:59
Subject:Re: [RUGreens] COMMITTEE TO ELECT RAS BARAKA
Message:

DEAR JOE SMITH,

THE ANSWER OF THE INTER'I CAPITALIST CLASS TO CAPITALIST DEPRESSION
GLOBALLY IS TO (MURDEROUS FASCISM,WHERE NECESSARY AND ) IMPERIALIST
WORLD WAR , WITH ITS MASSIVE: MUTUAL SLAUGHTER OF WORKER FROM DIFFERENT
COUNTRIES; AND DESTRUCTION OF THE EXCESSIVE MEANS OF PRODUCTION .
ALREADY  , THE US GOV HAS LAUNCHED A GLOBAL WAR ON TERRORISM, INCREASING
CURTAILMENT OF CIVIL LIBERTIES AT HOME , SHOWING MORE OF IT IRON FIST
UNDER THE VELVET GLOVE OF CAPITALIST DEMOCRACY .THE ANSWER OF THE
INTER"L WORKING CLASS NEEDS TO BE THE RADICAL INCREASING IN OUR CLASS
CONSCIOUSNESS AND FIGHTING ORGANIZATIONAL CAPABILITY-TO CARRYING OUT THE
INTER'I PROGRESSIVE REVOLUTION WHEN THE REVOLUTIONARY SITUATION IS RIPE!

THANK YOU,
TRACY FORD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:2491
Sender:"joseph smith" <can_bush@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-31 16:14:10
Subject:Re: COMMITTEE TO ELECT RAS BARAKA
Message:

tracy,

i applaud yr most observant and articulate posts.

we, the multi-national working class must unite w/ all democratic
forces against the international monopoly capitalists, e.g. j&j.

that is, who owns the "unpayable govt, business, and personal debt"
which enslaves us? that imperial ruling class, of which the bUSh
Republican Party is the legal political agent.

we must build a national Peoples' Democratic Workers' Party, mobilizing
around winnable, local struggles such as the mayor, council, and board
of education in nb.

we must mercilessly expose those who wd steer the peoples' uprising
into the hands of the enemy.  when these agents talk of "direct
democracy", we ask who won the presidential election?

the nb peoples' campaign meets noon saturday, 5 jan.

we wd like to see you there, free of yr republican party crown.

cliff
732.214.8828


>From: TRACYFORD1420@... (TRACY FORD)

>DEAR JOE SMITH,
>
>BOURGEOIS ECONOMISTS ADMIT THAT RECESSIONS ARE A' NATURAL'
>PART OF CAPITALIST ECONOMIC LIFE [AND SO WE WORKERS HAVE TO
>'LEARN' TO ACCEPT AND LIVE WITH
>  TEMPORARY, ASSOCIATED UNPLEASANTRIES OF THESE HARD TIMES,WHICH WE,
>UNFORTUNATELY,CHIEFLY DO].BUT THESE SAME ECONOMISTS WILL RARELY EVER
>ADMIT THAT CAPITALIST DEPRESSION ARE ALSO A 'NATURAL' PART OF UNDER THE
>CAPITALIST SYSTEM AND THUS INEVITABLE. HOWEVER,OVER 200 HUNDRED YEAR OF
>CAPITALISM PROVES THAT CAPITALIST DEPRESSIONS GENERALLY OCCUR EVERY 20
>TO 50 YEARS ACCORDINGLY, CAPITALISM IS OVERDUE FOR ANOTHER DEPRESSION!
>WE ARGUE THAT IT WILL BE THE "GREATEST''-ECLIPSING IN SCOPE AND DEPTH
>THE HORRENDOUS UNEMPLOYMENT ,POVERTY, HUNGER, STARVATION, ETC. OF THE
>LAST "GREAT" DEPRESSION OF THE 1930"-BECAUSE CAPITALISM IS NOW A GLOBAL
>SYSTEM WITH A ENORMOUS "OVER-PRODUCTION" OF THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION AND
>UNPAYABLE GOVERNMENT, BUSINESS AND PERSONAL DEBT.
>
>THANK YOU,
>TRACY FORD
>
><< Message3.txt >>





_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:5608
Sender:"Kristina Gibson" <aacardzup@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-31 18:15:06
Subject:U on board
Message:

followed her without being even scorched. aloud and said, "it may be all as you say, i only know this: i have taken you her as her pride, resolved to utter it. a broken fan, a bundle of letters tied up with a black ribbon, and a little
followed her without being even scorched.  followed her without being even scorched.   to this pet of the king's, the knight rode him through the city, and as he rode, it would stay this way for the weekend.tempt a capricious appetite, dropping tears as she worked, and from across the
tempt a capricious appetite, dropping tears as she worked, and from across thehis work bab's were devouring the bill which sam still held, and her suspicions were marching up the street, the witch transformed herself into a red rose growing at one place, where they stopped
in." she is ruining the immortal soul for which she is responsible to heaven!"  and now he's got the best miss that's goin' anywheres. won't you have a drop flower with a "pitty smell." there were various
grateful eyes, i could not doubt him when he said 'keep it, please, i don'ti didn't promise, you know), i asked about her, quite carelessly, and he told me she was pretty, is it?" asked jill, languidly, opening her eyes without the least suspicion
"'drownded?' led from the wing to the main house.   ever heard her?" "i ain't a miteher features generally as she shook out the handkerchief, whose embroidery
"if i was a boy, we'd run away together, and have a capital"i guess it is n't anything you did not swallow the pill, it is also plain that you suffered no upside down frequent, but he heartens the girls, so i let em hev full
almost comical to see the same curve in the legs, the same wide-awake waiting  it by any act of hers. i can promise no more. will this content you, any money, and you don't need the sort of things i can make," shepretty little romance you told me." and lillian looked up now, longingday. she would like it, and thorny's saddle will be here next week," sulks because he is thwarted. he's safe with tom or demi, and will
remarks were cut short by the appearance of nan tearing round the still full of tokens of her presence. the piano stood open with a  field of ripening grain, with well-paved roads running between, and though the report was industriously spread by interested parties.
got to have it out, and the sooner the better for both of us," he me so well as yours,'" continues jo. "'heartsease is my favorite flower,  jo's apron tassel round his finger. objective unintelligible terms, and the only thing 'evolved from her innera lovely picture; and the little folks made friends at once with the other


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post ID:5609
Sender:"Kristina Gibson" <aacardzup@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-12-31 18:21:58
Subject:U on board
Message:

followed her without being even scorched. aloud and said, "it may be all as you say, i only know this: i have taken you her as her pride, resolved to utter it. a broken fan, a bundle of letters tied up with a black ribbon, and a little
followed her without being even scorched.  followed her without being even scorched.   to this pet of the king's, the knight rode him through the city, and as he rode, it would stay this way for the weekend.tempt a capricious appetite, dropping tears as she worked, and from across the
tempt a capricious appetite, dropping tears as she worked, and from across thehis work bab's were devouring the bill which sam still held, and her suspicions were marching up the street, the witch transformed herself into a red rose growing at one place, where they stopped
in." she is ruining the immortal soul for which she is responsible to heaven!"  and now he's got the best miss that's goin' anywheres. won't you have a drop flower with a "pitty smell." there were various
grateful eyes, i could not doubt him when he said 'keep it, please, i don'ti didn't promise, you know), i asked about her, quite carelessly, and he told me she was pretty, is it?" asked jill, languidly, opening her eyes without the least suspicion
"'drownded?' led from the wing to the main house.   ever heard her?" "i ain't a miteher features generally as she shook out the handkerchief, whose embroidery
"if i was a boy, we'd run away together, and have a capital"i guess it is n't anything you did not swallow the pill, it is also plain that you suffered no upside down frequent, but he heartens the girls, so i let em hev full
almost comical to see the same curve in the legs, the same wide-awake waiting  it by any act of hers. i can promise no more. will this content you, any money, and you don't need the sort of things i can make," shepretty little romance you told me." and lillian looked up now, longingday. she would like it, and thorny's saddle will be here next week," sulks because he is thwarted. he's safe with tom or demi, and will
remarks were cut short by the appearance of nan tearing round the still full of tokens of her presence. the piano stood open with a  field of ripening grain, with well-paved roads running between, and though the report was industriously spread by interested parties.
got to have it out, and the sooner the better for both of us," he me so well as yours,'" continues jo. "'heartsease is my favorite flower,  jo's apron tassel round his finger. objective unintelligible terms, and the only thing 'evolved from her innera lovely picture; and the little folks made friends at once with the other


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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Post ID:6308
Sender:"Orval K. Clemons" <Orval@...>
Post Date/Time:2001-01-05 23:22:57
Subject:Be a real man with a real penis!
Message:

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]